So they can do that thing like a kid would put their finger 3″ away and say “I’m following the rules I’m not touching you” while touching you? That does sound annoying.
Fwiw, that isn’t really true anyway. Like, it’s complicated because when you get to a subatomic level things don’t have positions or boundaries the way we think of them, but they do still “touch” for a given value of the word. If you touch a wall, that could mean you’re just grazing it, or you’re pushing into it, and the harder you “touch” the wall or the closer you get to it, the more it pushes you back. Well, the same thing is true of, say, two neutrons – there’s not really a boundary where one neutron begins and ends, but it is still true that the closer you push two neutrons together, the more force they apply to push themselves apart. In both the macro and micro scales, when that repulsive force starts being applied, that’s when two things are touching.
“In both the macro and micro scales, when that repulsive force starts being applied, that’s when two things are touching.”
Since most (all?) fundamental forces operate as fields, isn’t this really an everything, everywhere, all within the scope of relativity (handwave away entanglement) situation? So it’s not just when the force *starts* being applied, but when the force becomes large enough to be relevant for counting as part of the definition. “Touching” then being when the forces prevent two objects from occupying the same space.
I can’t imagine Joyce has went 18 years never going down town at all. I mean she at least showers right? We know she pees too for that matter. She probably knows the town she’s just never explored the inner city.
I knew a young woman—20 at the time (I was 16)—who said she’d NEVER EVER even CONSIDERED touching herself in THAT WAY. Then after sex she admitted that the feeling was just like that explosive thing that always happens when she sits on the washing machine. One woman’s “touching herself” is another’s spin cycle.
‘Baths is unhygienic,’ Granny declared. ‘You know I’ve never agreed with baths. Sittin” around in your own dirt like that.’
‘What do you do, then?’ said Magrat. ‘I just washes,’ said Granny. ‘All the bits. You know. As and when they becomes available.’
Esme Weatherwax isn’t exactly my role model when it comes to sex-positivity.
„Everyone is naked under their clothes, Esme“
“I’m not! I’m wearing three vests!“
I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re sweater vests.
No, but it takes a certain amount of clicks for the comment to be up for review, whereupon The Great and Powerful Willis decides whether it can stay up or should be deleted.
That’s all well and good, but Willis has said that they’ve enabled pretty much all of the features the plugin offers. I think we can safely conclude that that wasn’t an offered option. And he set the threshold taking that into account. I think people just need to worry a little less about clicking it accidentally.
I know that system is in place. If one of the really neat comments gets enough people directly replying to it with enough fat-finger slips, it may happen.
Which is one of my big sticking points against Roz. She had to show awareness that she involved a third party in her sex tape without his consent. No, he wasn’t involved in the fun bits, but many people who know about the video will assume that Danny, who is demonstrably there, was participating in some manner (if only just enjoying the show).
Roz’s violation of Danny’s right to withhold consent marks her as an absolute failure as an advocate of sex-positivity, as well as a grade-A hypocrite, in my book.
Conflicts like that do often arise when one is motivated significantly by optics as opposed to principle. I don’t know if it’s a primary motivation for Roz, but she’s demonstrated that it is a motivation.
Sometimes definitely. When I was a kid, a non zero number of sleepovers involved some sort of sexual experimenting or “practice” for when we were in relationships.
It definitely varies by friend group. I moved around a lot as a kid and in some groups I don’t think anything even close to this ever happened. In other groups it was treated rather casually.
I did a “kiss me in the place where nobody ever kissed me” with my cousin (both girls) once. Wasn’t exactly learning masturbation (I think neither of us knew how to do that, at the time) but the same general principle
Those two are definitely not living rent free, Dorothy’s head space. Joe, and Roz, are the two most sexually active people, in her circle; what do you think Dorothy masturbates to? The way she acts around them both, is showing that she, herself, has some repressed, pent up, sexual feelings towards them.
If my journey is anything to go by… from lefty repressed Catholic perfectionist to kinky Jewish mid-30s sub… what we really need is a slipshine where Dorothy’s perfectionist-tension and hyper-focus on always being perfectly moral and socially just finally breaks and she just finds someone to call Daddy/Mommy.
Oh, like I said, she has already found them, which is why she hates them, so much. Having interacted with Joe and Roz, coupled with her sexual relations with Walky, Dorothy found out that she is really no different then those two; but, she can’t admit to that, because that level of sexual openness would be, “degrading”. Presidential hopefuls can’t have kinks, and so she tries, real hard, to bury it.
Fuck Ryan, just fuck that guy, kill Blaine because frankly he’s the most dangerous, and marry ToeDad because nothing I could do to him would be worse (to him) than being married to a man.
Well, I’m not sure *how* you would kill sporting equipment, so I guess “fuck” (also, it’s not an animal), the shrimp would probably be the easiest to find people who’d eat it post-slaughter, so “kill,” and I guess that leaves the fucked up Coyote, who I could probably find a way to profit off of by keeping around anyway, so “marry.”
A continuation from above (in reply to Meagan) – while this didn’t happen to me, something like this did happen to my wife.
She and her friends got a little experimental at some sleepovers.
Later, my wife told her friend, whom she had experimented with, that she liked her romantically.
The friend lost her shit, freaked out, and then told the whole school about my future wife being ‘a lesbian’ and coming on to her. My wife lost basically all her friends and social standing.
So yeah, sometimes girls will also consensually do stuff with you and still freak out when you mention you’re actually queer.
Sheesh that’s AWFUL. As someone who still remembers every single confession that blew up in his face I can’t IMAGINE being outed like that and losing my entire friend group. Honestly more power to her for sticking with it and landing an awesome lady like you 😀
I’ve counted it as one of the upsides over being a loner growing up that I never encountered any of that creepy masturbating with the other boys stuff.
To be clear, I am referring to boys masturbating in each other’s presence but not actually touching each other, because that be gay. Which I am told is a thing, though never one I encountered.
I think I heard it on a raunchy radio program. I remember him saying “The idea is that if you cum last you HAVE to eat the cookie. But really you don’t HAVE to do anything. You can just say “no” and leave and it’s not like they can force you to eat it”.
I know a story of hazing a new guy by declaring a circle jerk. The lights are turned off and the boys-in-the-know pat their bellies with two fingers. The lights are turned on and the new guy is the only one stroking it.
I mean, it’s definitely something I’ve heard of people doing? But how many of the people that I know who have done it have, in fact, turned out to be straight? Well, I don’t really hang out with any straight people for one, so…
I’ve heard of such things going on at various points in my life, and have never doubted that they went on, though as noted, I have not personal knowledge of them.
well there are memes /images i’ve seen that’s like a caption of girls just kissing like “straight girl activities” or so, or ppl being closeted. Or just some thinking it ‘doesn’t count’ and such
Sometimes girls peer-pressure each other into taking showers with them and then pretend it was all your idea and make fun of you for it. Or try to pressure you into putting Gold Bond Medicated Powder on your genitals and then make fun of you when you don’t. So I guess this isn’t outside the realm of possibility.
I doubt very few would actually do this for each other.
But, Joyce is a… special case. Shades of repression that is being eliminated and extreme horniness. Dorothy is acting less like a friend and more like a sex therapist here.
Right?! I want to yell at Dorothy “hey if you think your friends mind is too clouded to make rational thoughts then what makes you think it’s okey for you to spring this on her without even asking for basic consent??? Dorothy is too caught up in getting her way to think rationally herself here and she has no business deciding this for Joyce.
You do realize that Dorothy is not at this point (and at probably no point) actually molesting or assaulting Joyce in any way, right? Simply making an offer not violating consent. You are violating consent if you do not stop when requested, the person is in incapable of giving consent, the person is under duress, there is a power imbalance, or there is misrepresentation. I don’t think any of those situations apply to Dorothy/Joyce..
We might think it is a bit weird of dorothy to offer, and might think that it is overstepping boundaries, but Joyce does have the option of saying “no”. (And has we have seen with her “get out of my ass” comment, she is able to do so with significant emphasis when the need arises.)
Dorothy is most definitely Not offering here she is telling Joyce what they are going to do without asking first. Dorothy and Joyce do have an unequal power dynamic based on their history of Dorothy deciding she knows what’s best and Joyce reluctantly following in part due to being raised to be obedient to others. Every time Joyce has asserted herself Dorothy has treated it like an irrational temper tantrum, notice how there is not apology from Dorothy to Joyce fron earlier? It’s because Dorothy sees nothing wrong with her behavior. Joyce might really have a hard time saying no due Dorothy treating this like a logical thing Joyce would be childish to refuse. Like going to the pharmacy she’s over stepping Joyce’s boundaries and not accepting Joyce’s ” get out of my ass’ comments as a true refusal. This is a big problem.
Do you really think asking consent means phrasing everything as a question?
You can make a prescription, and the other person can say “no, I’m uncomfortable with that”.
Dorothy has a history of dismissing Joyce’s discomfort as i have already explained above. That is why express consent is so important in the Joyce/Dorothy dynamic. “No I am uncomfortable with that” only works when said discomfort is taken seriously. From past behavior Dorothy would likely take Joyce’s refusal as an invitation work harder to get her to do the thing she doesn’t want to do because she thinks it’s for Joyce’s own good.
In a context where Joyce has explicitly and forcefully insisted that her friends should stop imposing sexuality onto her, offering to teach her how to mastrubate really really really needs to be a question. She’s also complained about her friends intruding into her personal life and building a breakfast nook in her ass (although that metaphor had gotten away from her at that point).
She’s skipping steps (and ignoring Joyce’s “no, I’m uncomfortable with that”) for that to be the case here. She might be a decent person generally, but she’s making some horrible mistakes.
One of my friend’s mom’s refused to teach her about tampons. She thought they were sinful. We were kids and it was years before I knew of any other alternatives and my friend sure didn’t. My friend hated pads. It’s not quite the same but it was an intimate thing I had to teach her that she hadn’t learned because of religious sex-purity bs, so yeah, I bet this kind of thing does need to happen when people leave extreme fundy brainwashing like Joyce has.
What power dynamic? Dorothy is not in a position of authority over Joyce. She isn’t her boss, teacher, mentor, etc. Dorothy being more experienced in some areas than Joyce does not mean she holds a position of power over Joyce. Dorothy feeling that she knows better than Joyce about certain topics does not mean she’s in a position of power over Joyce.
If not a similarly aged friend who knows more about sex than her who else should Joyce talk to about sex and masturbation?
Dorothy might not have an official position of power but she is somebody Joyce has difficulty saying no to. She’s the mom friend who Joyce already perceived as being better then herself and when Joyce expresses anger toward her behavior such as the pharmacy trip Dorothy just dismisses Joyce and tells her she made her do it for her own good and that Joyce should stop resisting. While it might be well meaning it doesn’t change the fact that Dorothy does not treat Joyce as an equal. Joyce can ask Sarah if she really needs someone or seek out someone not in her friend group but it needs to be on Joyce’s own terms. Her knowledge of sexual exploration should not start with someone telling her she has to right now because being horny makes her too dumb to pick the right sexual partner( Dorothy argument against Joe)
While you’re not wrong about Joyce and Dorothy’s relationship in general, nothing you’ve described there is an uneven power dynamic. Joyce may find it hard to tell Dorothy “no”, or isn’t because Dorothy has any kind of leverage over her. She doesn’t have institutional authority, she doesn’t control Joyce’s access to resources. She doesn’t even have significant social clout to use. The entire problem you’ve described is “Joyce struggles to enforce her boundaries and Dorothy doesn’t respect them anyway. That’s definitely a problem, but it isn’t power.
I can say nothing like this ever happened to me.
Oh. Wait no.
Okay, something vaguely like this did happen to me once. Except the girl and I were dating, and I was ‘what is your preferred type of orgasms’ and she was like ‘I don’t know – I don’t know what an orgasm is’ and I was like “okay, let me show you”.
And then I did. And then she was like “OH that. Yeah, I’ve done that. I never knew what the name was.”
It’s not just for girls. My first time to both first and second base happened at a co-ed party in junior high in front of like 6 people who were egging it on.
I’ll be honest, it’s funnier if I just say “don’t get me started on The Handjob Tree” than if I actually get started on The Handjob Tree. The Handjob Tree is exactly what it says in the name.
In retrospect, maybe the name is a little ambiguous. The Handjob Tree was a large old cypress tree whose dense, low-lying branches somehow became well-known for their ability to (mostly) conceal public handjobs performed behind them.
My wife and I drove past my old school a couple years ago and were disappointed to see it had been cut down. i CaN’t iMaGiNe WhY.
Her smug look in the last panel, those straps… is she really trying to imitate Dina or something? ’cause that’d be pretty fucking hilarious. And the Dunning-Krueger effect in action.
They’re gonna record it side-by-side for later visual comparisons, which will be broken down into clear categories like speed, wrist movement, and pressure, then compared based on time and muscle tension.
It seems like it’s laundry day, so it might be a bit like that older art print of Joyce and Sarah… she tells Joyce to sit on the drier, and get in touch with how her own body feels…?
Finished once, but she might start a lot, and definitely the shame and self-loathing kick in. Even after apostasy, she still feels like a “gross wierdo” for being horny.
So delicious, Dotty is an explosion of repression and bad decisions and good intentions ready to blow up. Hopefully Joyce’s repressed attraction to Dorothy will get her through this having had an awkward but good time.
Repressed? Are you reading a different comic than the rest of us? Because Dottie used it in the last story line as a carrot to lead Joyce to the pharmacy. Then, Joyce actively and publicly fantasized they were a couple, to get her through it.
Yes, repressed. Hell, she’s repressing her feelings about Joe while actively pursuing them. Joyce is extremely good at repression. If she is indeed attracted to Dorothy, those feelings are buried deep where she hasn’t consciously acknowledged them.
That would make it especially creepy because then it would mean Dorothy took advantage of Joyce’s feeling (possible attraction and being horny) to control her and get her away from Joe right before going away to Yale. This is not cute it’s possessive and controlling to a disturbing new level and Dorothy is too busy fantasizeing about one upping both Joe and now Roz apparently to see how inappropriate she is being towards somebody who trusts her.
Not a washing machine but one time I held a bottle between my legs on a buss (was looking through my bag for something, didn’t do it with this as an end goal) and it changed my whole perpsective on public transport, let me tell you.
I doubt it’d get me off specifically, but as an introduction to the concept, it’s not bad. Certainly a lot more Joyce friendly than taking her to a sex shop and vibrator shopping, which would definitely result in a complete panic meltdown.
If you don’t have one through gravatar, you get a random one based off of your email address. If you want to change to a different random one, just capitalize different letters in your email address.
I used to draw a new avatar for myself each month. I think it was some attempt to be trendy or something similarly silly, but I suspect it also was good practice. Drawing icons means getting a feel for how much you can communicate in a very small image– try to make it too complex, and it loses the easy and fast readability that an icon requires for its job.
I don’t draw nowadays; when I realized my most recent avatar was approaching a decade old, I just started using Grumpy Cat (rest her soul) to communicate “No, I probably do not want to be your friend.”
If you just post here, you get assigned one of the avatars Willis makes up, based on your email. It will stay the same for months until Willis changes the list, when it will change unpredictably to someone else.
If you don’t like the one you have, note that the choice is sensitive to the case in your email. So if you don’t like the one you get as me@foobar.test, Try Me@foobar.test or me@foobAr.test, etc, until you find one you like.
OR:
You can get a gravatar. Go to gravatar.com and create an account (if you already have a WordPress account you can use that there). Then upload the picture of your choice (while complying with gravatar’s ToS, of course). Then it will be shown on all your posts here.
That is what I’ve done. My avatar is a gravatar image taken from the anime “.hack//SIGN”. Most if not all of the non DoA avatars are probably like this.
One more note: Avatars on old posts do not stay they way they were. If you change your gravatar today, the posts you made last week or last year change to the new one. Similarly, when the default one for your email changes because Willis uploads new ones, all your old posts change too.
Therre are other sites that will generate avatars based on your email. I can no longer find the one that made mine, unless it’s changed beyond recognition. But creating different ways to make random images for avatars seems to have been a popular pastime at some point.
Paid an artist friend for it. I use it 99% of places you’d find me online. I’ve prefered to be consistent about that for around 15 years (same name, same avatar, same me)
Last panel smirk. I do find it funny when Dorothy isn’t above it all.
Still, ehhhh. I do think this is something Joyce *should* learn how to do for her own sake, like to get away from her background like she wants to do, anyhow, and because it’s perfectly fine. I just am side-eyeing Dorothy’s motivations.
Of course, if Joyce DOES partake and still wants to ride Joe, then she’ll have to concede Joyce actually likes the guy.
Perhaps Joyce will actually tell her best friend about all these heart-to-hearts and supportive text convos she has been having with Joe. Let her in on the character development he has had and how he’s already been a good friend who doesn’t come on to her.
Possibly, but at this point she’s basically got no reason to think she’s wrong about Joe, other than blind trust in horny Joyce’s judgement (Looks back at Joyce & Jacob).
Learning more about why Joyce thinks Joe’s changed would at least give her reasons to question herself. Then we can blame her if she doesn’t with more justification.
She hasn’t shown any inclination to hearing Joyce out about this, only insisting that She Is Right because Dorothy Cannot Be Wrong and therefore Joyce needs to drop this whole Joe thing because Dorothy Knows Better.
Joyce obviously doesn’t *owe* Dorothy an explanation, but Dorothy isn’t omniscient and Joyce letting her know, “Hey, Joe and I got close because he talked me through my parents’ divorce, he helped me during the Jacob fiasco, and now he’s been really cool about the potential autism”, etc, would certainly illuminate things.
The problem is something this personal should happen on Joyces own terms and Dorothy coming over ininvited with no apology from earlier and just straight up telling Joyce what to do is the opposite of that. This feels like Dorothy’s desire to never be told she can’t do something rearing it’s head in a particularly ugly way.
I’m beginning to worry that she’s coming unglued from pressure and overwork (both self-imposed) and this is how she breaks: trading judgment for earnestness until she cracks and runs off because it’s not working anymore. Nobody can find her for a week, and then she turns up in a dark corner of a disused lab. “hiding” under a blanket, a blubbering wreck reeking of alcohol. (Her friends help her dry out, and then she starts a spreadsheet of her mistakes to help construct a program to keep that from happening ever again.)
What I’m getting at is that to me this feels like more Dorothy than Dorothy usually is.
Dorothy still has this attitude of “I know I’m right about everything” and that accusation about Joyce not being clear headed? If true that’s a great reason why Dorothy is especially wrong to persume to decide anything for Joyce regarding sexuality right now. I am really hoping Joyce sticks to her earlier boundary because everything Dorothy is doing here is a red flag.
It would benefit Joyce if she knew how to masturbate, but this is entirely the wrong way to go about providing her that knowledge, and for entirely the wrong reasons. Dotty, just stop.
I kinda can’t think of a good way to do it, though. Like, this was always going to be a trainwreck of a situation regardless how it happens and with whom. Tearing a bandaid off, you know?
Joyce is certainly not going to try it on her own, as that last panel makes extremely clear. Who else would be trusted with the task? Her parents? Her siblings? Becky? Sarah? Leslie? Roz? Ruth?
Give her a book, and possibly an inexpensive toy. There are slim books that just give you a how-to guide for different pleasant sensations — and lots of permission, over and over again.
It could easily backfire like, “Well that was nice but not enough, I need a real d**” (IDK what words get censored or not here lol)
Because otherwise, some teens would never bother with dating. cept for the ’emotional connection’ but i’d prefer having 2-3 good friends versus a partner personally
Dorothy, watching their first “real” date from behind a newspaper at another table at Galasso’s: “He’s only after one thing, I just know it. He’ll get what he wants and break her heart.”
Dorothy, as one of Joyce’s bridesmaids as Hank walks her down the aisle: “Yup, any second now he’s going to drop the façade.”
Dorothy, babysitting a little boy who looks like Joe with Joyce’s eyes and a slightly older girl who looks like Joyce with Joe’s face: “This is it. His act is finally going to slip. Any day now he’s going to have his arms around another woman.”
Dorothy, 20 years later, in the pews as Joe walks said (now grown) girl down the aisle): “I KNEW IT.”
As character writing, I really do like it– characters have deep, complex motivations that aren’t always obvious but can track in hindsight? Yes, please.
yeah, I called the Joe thing in one of my million comments yesterday, but didn’t see that coming either. Even if it was partly inspired as a reaction to Roz I wouldn’t expect it to be this conscious
https://imgur.com/a/8Q50mBQ (NSFW)
Here’s my big ol’ comprehensive post with all my DOA fanart. If you just wanna know where I post in general just look up Yotomoe. That’s basically my name everywhere.
Technically speaking I drew this after yesterday’s strip where her reaction was more of just coughing (and peeing). Which coulda been more shocked at the proposal than horrified.
That being said I’m probably just covering my butt. Most of my art takes place in a “everyone is cool with this” reality. It’s not like I think actual canon Billie would ever sleep with Walky, etc.
This feels like a classic case of “doing the right thing for the wrong reasons” thing for Dorothy. Helping Joyce become more sexually comfortable and secure with herself is a good thing, but Dorothy seems more motivated by the idea it could hamper the prospects of Joyce and Joe hooking up than Dorothy wanting to genuinely help Joyce (though I am well aware that Dorothy’s justification would be that preventing Joe and Joyce from hooking up is a valid form of “genuinely helping” Joyce, which kinda part of the problem).
I mean, She’s known Joe for years now. We’ve seen what he was like. Joe’s change of heart vis a vis relationships is a VERY new development. You can’t entirely blame Dorothy for dismissing it as another tactic Joe is trying to get Laid.
Dorothy can have understandable (and even justified) feelings towards Joe cur to his past behavior, that also doesn’t change the fact that Dorothy’s current motivations towards “helping” Joyce right are kinda more about being self-righteous and patronizing towards Joyce than being interested in actually respecting Joyce as an individual (while still being concerned for her) and equal.
Yeah given Dorothy’s controlling nature towards Joyce I don’t think it’s a good idea for her to be teaching this to Joyce especially without any apologizing for her previously controlling behaviors ots Just Dorothy doubling down on getting Joyce undercontrol and away Joe.
Everything we’ve seen of previous Joe was bad but only “give them a warning and then if they blow you off, it’s college, doomed relationships are learning experiences” bad, not THIS nonsense bad.
Mm, more “doing the wrong thing” (this) “to work toward a goal that may be good” (Joyce being more comfortable with sexuality) “for the wrong reasons” (spite toward multiple people).
Honestly I don’t think she did. I think she probably hooked up with him post-walky at some point we didn’t see. (given her expression when Joe says everyone gets mad when they find sex/sin/etc when they come to him looking for it)
I initially wasn’t on board with the “Dorothy and Joe hooked up during the time skip” theory, but I’ve been thinking about the potential fallout of that and have started to come around. Can you imagine the drama? I’d eat that up with a cracker.
I’m pretty sure Dorothy hooked up with Joe in high school, and then felt used. Remember Dorothy saying she’d had sex with three guys? That would be Danny, Walky, and… who?
Highly doubtful. Infidelity is Joe’s hot-button issue, since he saw his father’s cheating implode his parents’ marriage, and that doesn’t seem like something Dorothy would do. If Dorothy and Joe hooked up, it was either before Danny or before the divorce.
I think it’s more that Dorothy had a front-and-center view of Joe’s previous behavior and thinks he hasn’t broken the pattern (or is unable to break it).
Also, in the interest of oversharing…
Some people legitimately don’t like touching themselves that way? Like, for lots of reasons, such as sensory stuff, trauma, gender things (probably not for Joyce, but). It can be a lot. And you don’t have to! Is there going to be room for “you don’t have to do this” in Dorothy’s lesson? Because it sure doesn’t seem like it.
Okay, to get to the oversharing part: I do not like doing it with my hands. Some other things are fine. Some things make me freak even more. Point is: ugh.
Also same. No disgust with texture or perceived uncleanliness or anything, just have never really been able to enjoy it. (Other people’s hands work fine though, so maybe it’s like trying to tickle myself or something)
If we’re over sharing, i also hate doing it with my hands. It just feels like work, it takes too long and my arms all sore after. With a more efficient tool it can be over and done with in a couple minutes and i can get back to playing honkai impact or whatever
IDK how often the person would be receptive to this, if they’re at least not as ‘repressed’ as joyce because that’d def end up not going over well if they’re not already ‘warmed up’ to go further, otherwise things would get awkward or someone would get slapped lol
Thanks, I was feeling some discomfort yesterday, but you have clarified it. I was afraid Dorothy were doing that motherly thing she was doing to Joyce all this chapter, like teaching how to swallow pills
.
there’s a special kind of bliss
not engendered by a kiss
surreptitiously indulged in less well known
for when one cannot make love with another
one can still Make Love Alone
Maybe Dorothy has an anatomically correct model of the requesite thing in her bag and is going to give a lecture on this and it isn’t going to be what we are thinking because I mean Joyce Is Bleeding Down There
I get that you’re squicked rn but like. Some folks do masturbate while menstruating. Some even engage in other sexual activities with partners while menstruating.
Of course people do. But for someone that’s squeamish about masturbation at the best of times, having your learning experience be with the added complication of being on your period is Unideal.
Love how this is apparently Plan B instead of “openly and plainly state your concerns about Joe as a person and romantic interest like you’re talking to an adult”.
By which I mean “I completely understand how this conclusion was arrived at but my god, Dorothy”.
Just because there’s blood down there, does not mean it stops feeling good. And I rather doubt that they’re going to the laundry room to whip out their bits directly. I suspect it’s gonna be “Sit on this washing machine.” Possibly with a anatomically correct model of the OTHER thing.
You can masturbate on your period. Might be messy to do it skin-to-skin, but it’s possible, and it’s easy enough to get off with a few layers of clothes between hand and vagina if you apply the right pressure.
I also don’t think Dorothy is suggesting skin-to-skin masturbation so much as “sitting on a poorly loaded washer/dryer and hoping for the best” but we’ll see!
you’re also not bleeding every single second of it, so she could easily wipe herself down (feels like she would’ve mentioned blood too in the other panel of her talking about cleaning pee off the floor) but i assume dorothy would have any charts, but there is still outer stimulation without using fingers/toys for penetration, so to speak
What kinds of menstruation products does Joyce use? If she’s still bleeding, there still probably wouldn’t haven been blood on the floor if she had a tampon in.
She uses pads. She’s asked someone to get her one in a strip and mentioned that she needed a new pad when she and Joe were walking back from the art class.
She doesn’t have to solely use pads, but it makes sense that she would. I hated using tampons and wasn’t even brought up the way Joyce was where there could be a ton of cultural baggage.
I was a lost for words the other day because Dorothy caught me off gaurd. But man Dorothy is really driven by wanting to stop this Joe and Joyce thing, it’s like the Antithesis to the whole “shipper on deck” trope.
People are like, “Nobody’s favorite Dr. Seuss book was ‘And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street.'” But here’s THE THING: My favorite Dr. Seuss book was “And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street.”
I mean, I grew into a person who sees the problems with it, but it was, of course, disappointing to realize.
After watching the show: absofuckinglutely god damn Sam learned to take a fucking hint you asshole, you don’t deserve your friends or your mother’s love
…i have strong opinions on many things
Wait until you see the gritty prequel miniseries that covers Sam-I-Am’s depressing backstory and paints him in a super sympathetic light, coming out this 2025.
(I know at least one person who would not only think this is a real thing, but also they’d remember “how the book originally was”, which would coincidentally be much darker also)
Im probably echoing alot of he comments but Ya know what Joyce should learn this on her own at her own pace on the internet from someone whose motivations not driven by spite and derision towards others (Dina Sarah or even Jenifer are more qualifed) This may be sex positive but its not positive in general it is another attempt to control Joyce’s life and Dorothy needs to stop doubling down. If Joyce wants to its fine but Dorothy should say hey do you want to learn how to masturbate no I am going to teach you beacuse it takes away Joyce’s prefrence.
Even if Joyce agrees its likely to drive Joyce to have sex with Joe alot of people like sex and Joyce doesn’t appear to fall under any of the asexual preferences. So after leaning how to masturbate she may want to try it.
Joyce could very easily learn this stuff on her own / from the internet. I think the problem is that she still has some sexual repression and wouldn’t do so on her own. I think it’s probably less of a case of “Dorothy the Instructor” and more a case of “Dorothy the Motivator” (And I don’t know if Dina/Sarah/etc. would be willing.)
It’s still not coming from a fully altrusitic place Dorothy is using this a means of controlling Joyce and or her own life, she doesnt want her dating Joe without realizing the change Joe and Joyce have gone through. she is also doing this out spit towards Roz that is not a good place to start
. Yes Joyce is sexually repressed and honestly Doorthy is not qualified to help. Joyce could seek the advice of Profesional or someone who is not trying to control Joyce beacuse they feel they can’t control their own life.
Joyce doesn’t need Dorothy to run her life Joyce needs to Dorothy to support her. Which is not what she is doing
idk how many ppl are actively religious here or Wilis’ specific former religiou, so i don’t know if some would have specific examples rather than overall “pleasure is a sin”
Tho joyce was pretty anxiety ridden about “what if your grandmas watching everything in heaven” or so/convo with sarah about ppl going through past sins or so and she said something like “moms gonna know about the time i thought about harry styles”
I don’t know about his denomination, but for me it was implied (or claimed outright) that masturbation was adultery (yes, there’s verses). Just a whole vibe of “you’re a terrible person, you should feel guilty for betraying your future spouse. oh hey, we’re handing out forgiveness here, isn’t that convenient!”
Dorothy, if that pinup of Joyce on the washing machine from back in the day is canon, I hope you have a better plan than that to entertain the poor girl
and yes, I’m aware that suggests Walky put a Doritos Locos Taco on his dick, and frankly that MUST be canon
Does it? Joyce is super repressed and should probably figure herself out at some point, sure, but it looks to me like the narrative is just doing the “Dorothy reacts very poorly to people suggesting she can’t do something” thing.
There are several things for Joyce to object to here, it could take more than a few seconds for her to get to them all. “I don’t want other people to think I think about sex” isn’t ultimately the most important, but it’s probably the quickest reflex.
i’m mildly surprised they don’t just go to a campus female masturbation workshop. those tended to happen once a semester at the college i went to, precisely because of this exact fundie situation. maybe those aren’t an IU thing, but i mean i was in iowa, so
yeah, i mean, what’s happening is first year of college *plausible,* it’s more that dorothy is engaging in a “high jink” rather than doing the research and going to the experts the way, uh, joyce took ethan to a coming out meetup.
I had a vision, of Dumbing Of Age, but with a visual filter, like dinosaur comics has. Today’s is the first it works well with since then. I put it on tumblr, but I don’t know if I did it right (tell me if there’s settings/etiquette I should have done).
I think at this point, “no more horny brain” would require me to get a lobotomy. It takes like nothing at all to get my brain thinking thoughts, so that’s probably where the disconnect is coming from.
When you think about it, I wonder if Dotty is feeling lonely. Danny moved on to Sal, who isn’t a clone of Dotty like Amber. Walky is getting serious about Lucy. Becky has Dina and is mending her fences with Joyce. Joyce is starting to buddy up with Joe and he actually seems like a better support system then Dotty.
She might be feeling like a third wheel in a lot of her key relationships.
Oh come on. Joyce literally just told her to stop giving her shit about sex stuff. As in it was the shouted as Joyce stormed off the last time they spoke. What the hell Dorothy?
I can already see the outcome
Joyce: Dorothy! What have you done?!
Dorothy: What do you mean?
J: You said that this would make me less horny, but now I can’t stop thinking about d-doing it with Joe!
D: Ah, damnit.
While I think Joyce should learn how to be able to get herself off, how pushy Dorothy is being here and how she’s approaching it in general really rubs me the wrong way. (ha, can’t help the bad joke)
Rereading this im seeing 3 red flags from Dorothy’s help here. 1 she’s again telling Joyce not asking her- in this context consent is especially important but Dorothy wants to treat this like getting glasses when it’s not. 2. She clearly just trying an alternative route to getting Joyce under her control away from Joe. 3. Now she’s motivated by spit towards roz and that’s clearly clouding her own judgment just so she can tell herself she’s just as good lf not better then her on sex positive education. Very little of this is motivated by a desire to help Joyce or respect for her and it feels like Dorothy is herself taking advantage of Joyce being horny assuming she won’t possibly say no.
Dorothy’s motivations aren’t the best, here, but I can’t blame her. To her knowledge Joe is a predator who will drop Joyce and break her heart the moment another girl comes around. And really she could be going about it way more tactfully.
But also masturbation is a normal, healthy thing for a human being to do, and who else to teach Joyce but her best (non-Becky) friend who she’s definitely not ever interested in or vice versa nope no attraction there.
Dorothy’s own way of coming straight to Joyce’s room and telling her they are going to relive Joyce’s sexual repression together with no prior consent comes off as predatory here. She says Joyce’s mind is too clouded by horniness then presumes that Joyce cant refuse her?? That is straight up taking advantage of Joyces repression for her own gain. Especially if joyce does have feelings for Dorothy isn’t that another reason why going through with this could end up being the thing Joyce rushed into that she later regrets? That it might break joyces heart for Dorothy to associate herself with Joyce’s sexual relief only to go away to Yale treating Joyce like a problem she fixed??? The irony is that Dorothy is acting like Joe at his worst here, presuming shes going to be the fixed by providing sexual relief and that she will ofcourse not refuse or regret it.
I can only hope that like that time on her date with Joe, Joyce has the strength to call Dorothy out and Dorothy realizes she isn’t giving Joyce enough credit regarding making her own decisions.
apart from all the obvious reasons this is a bad idea, the borderline sexual harassment, the complete disregard of a friend’s emotions in favour of just calling them horny, the trying to disregard your own emotional repression by misguidedly fixing a friend’s sexual repression, the fact that if they get caught it’ll be all over campus that they’re totes gay together within thirty seconds and becky might actually kill dorothy…
does dorothy actually know that what works for one lady won’t necessarily work for another? I’m sure she knows this in theory but she’s definitely not presenting this to joyce sensitively – if the first method fails to achieve intended results this is going to end in tears, assuming joyce doesn’t just tell her to fuck off next strip
The “borderline sexual harrassment”, what? That’s not what this is. Don’t just throw terms like that around.
Also you’re really just assuming ALL of the worst-case scenarios. Talking about sex and masturbating, and it might just be that, is healthy if consensual. And nothing here implies that Joyce isn’t allowed to say no.
Dorothy came straight in and told Joyce what they were going to do without asking for consent first. That is a problem. Joyce and Dorothy do NOT have an equal power dynamic instead it’s based on a history of Dorothy deciding she knows what’s best and Joyce reluctantly following her lead. Joyce really might not feel she can say no. Joyce also has been hinted to have feeling for Dorothy. Associating Dorothy with her first orgasam could become a real regret for Joyce later on.
Shortly before this encounter, Joyce expressly yelled at Dorothy(and others) for non-stop sex talk. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that she would be uncomfortable with Dorothy barging in with further, more insistent sex talk.
I mean, yes, Dorothy definitely has a major issue with admitting failure. But I do think that there’s more going on here on Dorothy’s end than just that. This really does feel more like she’s trying to speedrun all the Mothering stuff that she feels that Joyce needs before she goes off to Yale, something that got kicked into high gear by her chat with Walky.
Still very, very wrong of her to be doing this, of course, just wanted to point out that there might be more complex stuff going on here.
Nor really. it’s like the pharmacy trip in the morning
Joyce told all of them while still in bed to get out of her ass but despite saying she would back off Dorothy dragged Joyce to the pharmacy anyway. This is the same pattern Joyce has a blow out about how everyone needs to get off her business Dorothy just takes that to mean Joyce needs a moment to calm down before thinking of another way to persuade her to do what she wants. Dorothy’s keeps ignoring Joyce saying no and keeps coming back until she caves making Joyce feel like she doesn’t have a real choice.
You seem to be forgetting that the last interaction they had before this conversation had Joyce explicitly tell her she didn’t want to talk about this stuff
So tell me how exactly showing up to the room of someone Dorothy knows doesn’t want to talk about sexual stuff with her in order to talk about sexual stuff and try to pressure her to do something she’s not comfortable with (note she didn’t ask if Joyce wanted her to do this, she said “we’re doing this”) not sexual harassment?
I could reply to every reply to this comment, but I would just repeat my first comment. Respectfully, you are taking all of the worst-case-scenarios and assuming the worst intentions possible.
Right?! I don’t know why everyone is assuming that Dorothy teaching Joyce how to masturbate is going to be, not only a practical lesson, but a public lesson. More than likely they will go do laundry, Dorothy will explain that Joyce has a clitoris, explain that masturbating feels good and relieves tension and is ok to do, explain that you don’t need to rely on another person for sexual fulfillment, tell Joyce she can do things like touch herself, use a toy, and maybe even *gasp* sit on one of these convenient washing machines!
I swear, it feels like everyone thinks Dorothy is about to shove Joyce down and assault her all because she said “I’m going to teach you to masturbate” instead of “May I please teach you to masturbate?”
I mean, it’d be harder to assume that if Dorothy hadn’t literally shown up at Joyce’s door in lingerie, holding a riding crop, and already started personally unbuttoning Joyce’s fly while whispering about cartoons in her ear. She’s sending out mixed signals, is all I’m saying.
No, it absolutely is sexual harassment, and in large part it’s because Joyce has already been hysterically insistent that Dorothy stop this behavior and Dorothy is ignoring that by matter-of-factly stating what they’re going to do. I truly believe that if Joyce can communicate this to Dorothy clearly enough that she’s not doing it, Dorothy will back off… but there’s also a lot of infantilization of Joyce that’s been happening, and there’s also a lot of Dorothy pushing at every boundary Joyce has to make her do stuff.
Unpopular take: Dorothy isn’t Joyce’s mom. She isn’t in charge of Joyce. It isn’t up to her to make sure Joyce takes her medications, or gets up in the morning, or sticks to a schedule. And Joyce has been fretting at those restrictions for several strips now. They’re both 18 and Joyce needs to make her own mistakes and learn from them. I’m not talking about Joe, I’m talking about literally everything else in life. It isn’t Dorothy’s responsibility to ensure Joyce is Optimized. But Dorothy has taken that on as if it is, and true to form, she’s determined to ‘win’ at it.
I’m not trying to trauma dump here, but I’ve had friends who did this to me. And guess what? I have bucketloads of CPTSD as a result. Friends who don’t respect your boundaries about your sex life are actively damaging! Some of them will assault you over a span of years as a result of grooming you for it and tell you it is helping you as a friend! And while I definitely don’t think that’s what Dorothy’s goal is here, I also don’t think the person who did that to me was like an evil kids’ cartoon villain plotting against me. I think he just… convinced himself that what he wanted was best for me, even as it actively hurt me.
The number of commenters who don’t see what a terrifying thing it is, to have someone you trust and love keep demanding stuff from you that you aren’t okay to give, what a violation of consent it is for someone to tell you, “No, you don’t know what you need, I know what you need,” is horrific to me, as someone who had that violation happen repeatedly to them.
And you know what, before anyone comes at me with “that’s projecting,” Joyce is also a survivor of sexualized violence that she has PTSD about, so nah, miss me with that.
I am very sorry that happened to you … but it is good that you can now recognise that and object to it. Of course it would have been better if you could have learned that in a non-traumatic way. We all should, but society is only beginning to learn to recognise the harms of such behaviour. We should be teaching proper boundaries and consent from kindergarten. That does happen sometimes, but it is not (IMO) enough, nor is it consistent. And there are people actively working to prevent such teaching.
I’ll stop before this turns into a political rant.
Yeah… Their “friendship” has been weird for a long time and I really want Joyce to push back and tell Dorothy to GTFO, but then maybe Google and learn stuff on her own at her own pace. Dorothy treats Joyce like a project, not a person.
Yeah, I love Dorothy and I’m usually on her side… but how she’s been handling Joyce and Joe has been pretty gross, as far as her refusing to let Joyce make her own decisions about her own love life. Joyce has made some pretty big mistakes in the past, but that’s also how Joyce grows and develops. I’d say her experiences with Ethan and Jacob have had their affect on her. Shit, the fact that she isn’t immediately trying to force Joe to be her boyfriend, and is instead just… getting to know him, informs a lot of character development on Joyce’s side.
Dorothy’s comments in the last strip she had with Joyce were already pretty gross (aka “now that you’re on birth control don’t let yourself fuck Joe”) but now her insisting on teaching Joyce to masturbate… gross.
I don’t think my stance is all that unreasonable, personally. All I’m saying is that Dorothy could probably be more caring and sensitive about this and at least put the weapon away. There’s honestly no justification for her to have a M202 FLASH pointed at Joyce’s fucking head, not to mention it’s gonna cause collateral damage if she fires it.
Typical, Taffy! You’re not seeing the big picture! If Dorothy lowered that gun for even a second, Joyce could activate her telekinesis and kill everyone in Reed Hall! And we know from Thanksgiving she doesn’t care about civilians, or Josh!!
I don’t think it’s “frickin weird” for people to point out that Dorothy hasn’t asked consent for a sexual thing, and is doing it to try and keep Joyce from dating Joe. Those are literal facts in evidence, and without any stretching beyond that at all – this is a not-cool thing Dorothy is doing in my opinion and the opinion of others who clearly disagree with your take that those facts aren’t enough to form a judgment from.
Dorothy has her own issues and my compassion for them, but that doesn’t mean ignoring when she’s being a pushy jerk and boundary stomping.
I do think it’s weird to frame this as sexual harrassment and Dorothy as a predator who only does this to be right about Joe.
Because people like to assume Dorothy only has the worst intentions all the time.
Like, it’s totally sensible to think Dorothy is overstepping boundaries here, I think so, too. But that’s obviously not the take I’m talking about.
Dorothy is trying to force sex talk onto somebody who has previously expressed a clear no but continues to persist because she thinks Joyce is too horny to refuse her. Being best friends does not excuse Dorothy from the blame of sexual harassment. She certainly doesn’t think that’s what she’s doing but well intentions do not mean her actions can’t be inappropriate and harmful. You don’t have to think of Dorothy having the worst possible intentions to acknowledge this. And i dont think commenters do just that’s she’s very misguided and unwilling to acknowledge the problems with her own behaviour.
See, on one hand, Dorothy teaching Joyce about this sort of thing would be helpful in the long run, when it comes to things like relieving stress and pain due to Joyce’s menstrual issues. On the other, she seems to be doing this mostly to spite Joe, as if the mere thought of Joyce pursuing a relationship with Joe couldn’t be anything other than a massive oversight caused by latent horniness.
I really don’t think so, and it’d odd to me that people read it this way. Because she never seemed that antagonistic to Joe before, besides probably just tolerating him because he’s Danny’s friend?
She became alarmed when Joyce started to hang out with him. Why would that be more about Joe than Joyce?
Because she still sees Joe as a womanizer who’s only using Joyce as just more “prey” to satisfy his rampant sexual urges, another “faceless conquest”. By teaching Joyce more about masturbation, she’s probably thinking that the post-nut clarity will make Joyce realize that being with Joe is a bad idea.
“To spite Joe” is probably the wrong way to phrase it, but Dorothy herself admits that this is to keep Joyce from considering Joe as a romantic prospect. It’s more about protecting Joyce from Joe than setting Joyce up for success generally.
Yeah, I will admit I could’ve phrased it a bit better, but Dorothy is very much anti-Joe in this scenario. Granted, she believes she’s doing it for the right reasons, but only because she doesn’t believe Joe has changed.
I think there’s still plenty of time for joyce to say no/tell dorothy to fuck off like earlier if she’s not too flustered tho i assume dorothy wouldn’t put any unnecessary pressure
There’s a part of me that wonders how Joyce’s relationship with authority is playing into this. Obviously the shame of sexual desires is ingrained extremely deeply within her, but it has been interesting to see her act in such defiance of Dorothy’s (definitely misguided) repeated attempts to exert some authority over her. Notice how Dorothy isn’t approaching this like a concerned friend. She’s not sitting with Joyce and talking about WHY she’s concerned about Joe’s advances, she’s just barking demands. Now that Joyce is out of an environment where defiance is met with physical punishment, I wonder how much of this is her learning that she CAN set boundaries and grappling with the frustration of those boundaries not being acknowledged by people who are supposedly “better” than those who expected her to treat their words as absolute and infallible and punished her if she acted against them.
Thats the core of the biggest problem i have with Dorothy here. Joyce has expressed struggling with herself now that she doesn’t have a religious leader or an authoritarian parent to follow. People say Joyce can just say no to Dorothy talking about sex but she already has and Dorothy just comes back acting like the logical voice of reason..in other words an authority figure in Joyce’s mind who is better then her and whose judgment she’s supposed to be able to trust. It’s hard to set boundaries when your made to feel like an irrational child for doing so.
Absolutely. In this interaction, Jennifer’s comment of “Joyce has three moms here and you’re the mommest of all” rings especially true; not just because she’s the most overbearing, but because she’s exhibiting the same sort of authoritarian disregard of Joyce’s boundaries that Carol would.
Reporter, twenty years later: “Joyce, you’re a famous cartoonist, and you’ve been friends with Dorothy Keener since college. Now, she is running for president. What can you tell us about her?”
Joyce: “Well, she is persistent. I remember our Freshman year when she taught me how to masturbate…”
Once again Dorothy, a good thing for every single wrong reason under the sun. And I wouldn’t trust the post nut clarity to he effective. Didn’t keep me from spending nearly 2 years in shitty toxic relationship.
In all seriousness. Coulda said something like…” to prepare you for future relationship/marriage so you can help you know what you like and what feels good so you can help teach your SO.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not on the burn Dorothy keener at the stake. I think she’s doubled down cause as we saw in a previous post she got accepted to Yale. Which means she’s leaving everything and everyone and definitely wants people to be set up as best as SHE can make them. Unfortunately, that means disregarding her friends boundaries are a hard but necessary action by her logic.
That being said she’d make a great head of state with that line of logic. Maybe not a morally good one. But she has the ego and the “don’t back down even from a bad choice” mentality that’s required. Please please please let Joyce or someone else stand up to this though.
At some point, this Yale acceptance thing starts to feel like more of (and I hate this term 99% of the time) an excuse to not pay attention to what she’s doing, to me at least. Like, if every single thing gets written off as “Well, I’m being summoned away to this other school and won’t see people again, better double down”, she’s only gonna end up being way too intense and dissolving into brownsauce before the semester (or whatever the correct School Word is) is halfway over.
Hopefully that’s coherent enough, I’m like 75% sure it is.
She wants to be a hero, so she can’t leave until she can honestly say “Well, my work here is done.” Which puts her under a lot of time pressure to get things done.
Maybe. I’m not so sure that Dorothy is transferring to Yale. I’m wondering if she is sure. Yes, we saw the letter. We saw her looking at it pensively. We don’t know why the look. It’s possible she is re-thinking her plan in light of the attachments she’s made with other people at IU.
I don’t know about the best, probably the most frantic. And her “post nut clarity” is instead an overwhelming sense of guilt and shame, like she is a wretch that deserves to be sent to hell.
The premises that are pushing Dorothy may be questionable, but this strip shows really well how much Joyce desperately needs someone to teach her about this matter. So…, Go Dorothy!
What struck me as interesting was it looks like Dorothy isn’t pissed at Roz calling her a prude as Roz calling her unelectable. This doesn’t look like Dorothy’s doing this to help Joyce so much as to prove to herself that she’s cool and sex-positive and progressive and whatever.
I dunno—if Dorothy were running for president how many of you would vote for her? I mean, if it were her vs Ted Cruz I would but her whole “I’m the enlightened one who knows what’s best for you” vibe is just so off-putting. I probably wouldn’t pick her in a primary, or at least I wouldn’t be donating to her campaign.
I like her more than any candidate I’ve actually been able to vote for in the presidential election. She probably wouldn’t be my pick in a primary though.
I don’t think they are getting undressed for this guys. Dorothy is offering Joyce some sex ed, that’s all. And, yeah, she’s being very assertive, borderline pushy about it, because she knows Joyce well enough to know that Joyce would never ask for such lessons, and if asked directly would never have acknowledged she wanted them. She knew Joyce needed the plausible deniability of “Dorothy made me do it”. Generally speaking, assuming a person actually wants something they say they don’t want is a recipe for disaster, but it’s not like it’s never true, it’s just a good idea to assume it’s never true especially when it comes to sex. Enthusiastic consent always! In this case, it looks like Dorothy was right on the money. Joyce is saying “I never do that!” not “I don’t want to do this.” He face says “I’m embarrassed that I want this.”
It’s been their relationship’s dynamic for a while. Joyce kinda likes Dorothy taking care of her. She does find her overbearing at times, but she did appreciate Dorothy’s taking the initiative of signing her up for an art class and buying her supplies.
In this case, I suspect Dorothy’s plan is just to show Joyce a diagram identifying all the different parts, and give some tips (erogenous zones, lube, technique, toys) and all of that without sexual shame. And I think Joyce actually wants and needs to hear it. It’s stuff she should have learned from her mother or at school during sex ed, except she was homeschooled by her fundamentalist mother. I suspect that afterwards Joyce will wrestle with this new knowledge and finally give in to her urges and masturbate, and she will feel better and be grateful to Dorothy for the lesson. I really doubt that’ll make her reconsider Joe as a romantic prospect, though. She likes him for more than his body. They have both grown a lot since starting college, and that’s what Dorothy has failed to notice.
Dorothy also has her own issues to deal with. She needs to get over her need to control who Joyce gets to have a romantic or sexual relationship with, she needs to trust Joyce more to make her own decisions and follow through, and she needs to get over her rivalry with Roz. She needs to tell her friends what’s happening with Yale. It’s clearly eating her up inside. And she needs to admit to have limitations and not consider them moral failures. Her motivations for approaching Joyce with this are clouded by some of these issues.
Why did she tell her to go pee to avoid UTIs, then? Genuine question. Like I’m not suggesting she’s going to get her naked and touch her or anything, I’m just genuinely curious as to why so many people are suggesting that it’ll be totally theoretical when Dorothy herself said to prep physically.
I love how you can tell who’s had consent issues thrust on them by people violating their consent and who hasn’t in this comment section. And I mean I’m very happy some of y’all haven’t had that, but maybe have some empathy for the people who have and are seeing the red flags here.
Right? I’m especially concerned about the people who seem bound and determined to believe that Dorothy is not being pushy as hell about this–she shuts down Joyce refusing consent twice in this strip alone! (in before “BuT sHe DiDn’T lITeRaLlY sAy ‘No’ So MaYbE iT’s OkAy”)
Oh, she’s being super pushy, and definitely needs to disappear down the hallway and be revealed to have been a hallucination Joyce was having for some reason.
Where did she refuse consent? She said she never touches herself. She didn’t say no. She didn’t say stop.
“I never do this!” is one of the hottest things somebody told me before they started doing a thing. I cannot elaborate on the details. But Joyce’s expressions here could easily be interpreted as excitement.
Consent isn’t a thing you assume until it is refused. Consent is a thing you assume ISN’T there until you get a “hell yes”.
This idea that she has to say “no” or it’s a “yes” is seriously messed up and is how a lot of sexual assault happens while the perpetrator SWEARS they aren’t a rapist.
It’s probably a good thing if most of us haven’t had that happen, I think? It’s probably better overall if the majority of people can’t put themselves into that mindset from personal experience. Feels like you’re framing that as a negative, somehow.
I don’t see that as the message that people should have that happen to them, it was the lack of empathy for the situation Dorothy is putting Joyce in. Some people refuse to belive that Dorothy’s behavior is problematic and act like coercion can’t be happening because Dorothy isn’t a villian character.
I don’t see it the way you did, but I do see some issue with the initial claim (“you can tell who…”). There can be people who haven’t experienced something who show empathy, and there can be people who have experienced something who don’t show empathy. Like, say something upsetting happens to someone, and the response they get is just, “Oh, that’s no big deal,” and then they internalize that.
Haha, that last part of your post sure doesn’t sound familiar, haha, wouldn’t it be wild to live with that as a constant response to very normal levels of discomfort, haha?
I apologize for that! I definitely didn’t mean to sound like a jerk about that. Believe me, I would much rather defend people from ever having to feel that, ever. (I would rather NOT have been made to experience it, personally.)
I do think it’s really weird that people are pushing back on my comment instead of picking up on the weariness, but I mean… eh.
Like… perhaps as a multiple-time SA survivor, I might be exhausted by having to explain why this is a consent issue and this is not okay to people, but also feel like if I don’t, I’m not actively trying to make the world better. The problem is, that may not come across when I’m typing in a comment box. And also… yo, I’m tired of having to hear people say the things that people who actively denied anything happened to me said and try to hold their hands through understanding it, because this comment section is rife with it. If I dip into snark, that’s why.
Ah, that makes more sense to me now. Sorry, I’d picked up on some degree of exhaustion, but was wrong about the direction it was pointed in. Thank you for the clarification, turns out we’re in 100% agreement.
Character persists with highly personal interaction, is told NOT to in the clearest possible language, then still persists, and commenter makes excuses for them. It does suggest at least inability to apply what they’ve learned about consent.
I mean, yeah, you can often tell things about people based on what they say and how they say it. I’ve got trouble parsing that kind of thing for autistic reasons, and even I’m aware of this very basic fact.
She’s a white chick in a tank top who’s read a book before, that’s who. THE most qualified person to talk to anyone about anything with the authority of an expert, or so the legend goes.
One of the only things I’ve seen from that guy was him trying to “UM, ACKSHUALLY” a symbol from Frozen 2, something about snowflakes not looking like the thing that wasn’t a snowflake in the first place. (And if he really wanted to see a snowflake, he could look in a mirror)
Okay, this has been bugging me for 12 fucking hours. Joyce’s face in the last panel reminds me of something, but I can’t for the life of me remember what. It taste vaguely skeleton-adjacent, but that’s as clear as the picture gets.
Yeah, that’s the one. It had the skeleton with a Jamaican accent for some reason, the annoying kid, and blonde not-Wednesday. The premise from the original short was actually kinda clever, but they dragged it out into an entire series.
Strangely enough I would say that seeing one episode doesn’t really give a good vibe of that show because it really changes from season to season.
Like it goes from a horror lite to one batch of episodes to pure comedy another batch to parodying the entire cartoon network catalog in another. Like the show is really inconsistent in its tone.
i think it’s really interesting that everyone is taking joyce’s insistence that she has “never ever ever never ever” touched herself at face value, when it has been asserted or implied on multiple occasions that joyce… reads and looks at porn, has sexual fantasies, and regularly denies that she does those things?
“I’ve never ever EVER considered… [joe] kneading my face with his butt.”
“I’m not horny, all that stuff in my search history was for research!”
“I warn you, [amber’s fanfics] are very filthy.” (it is implied joyce did in fact shoot booster a link)
she knows what sex toys are, as sarah introduced her to what a vibrator is early in the first semester, and she has explicitly referenced dildos.
why are we taking her insistence here at face-value, and why are we using it as justification for dorothy ignoring her VERY CLEARLY SET boundaries? joyce doesn’t actually need anyone to teach her how to masturbate, and would benefit from being allowed to explore her own body on her own terms (something her insistence of having never done, to me, implies she has already at least begun doing) and to /choose/ to ask for help when she needs it from who she wants it from.
You don’t need to directly touch, if you know about pressure and friction. It took me forever as a kid between working this out, and realizing quite some time later that that was actually masturbating.
“Lol, you don’t jack off enough, but in a sexually liberated way, not in a gross way, and also in a denigrating way because it makes me see you as lesser, lmao”
If cranking one out is so important to Dorothy, why doesn’t she just go do it herself? She could at least be offering to compensate Joyce for the interaction, too. This is at least a $50 service she’s asking for, at the very low end.
I want the end product of this to be “I have done sexual things now. I am a sexually aware being with experience! … I am ready to face Joe. Thanks Dorothy!”
meanwhile, i am simping HARD for this cutie, the Philippine Tarsier aka Carlito syrichta which i just found out about in the taxidermy gallery of my local natural science museum and apparently can’t stop drawing now.
Joyce does NOT need to be taught to masturbate. Most people can figure that out without assistance. JOYCE probably already knows how (she has seen porn), but is so seriously repressed that she can’t do it.
Joyce needs to be taught that IT IS OK TO masturbate.
This! Joyce isn’t a little kid, or an idiot. She has trauma because of people shoving a certain narrative down her throat her whole life, and instead of giving her her very clearly expressed desire for space to figure out what she wants herself, Dorothy has decided she needs more stuff shoved down her throat. She doesn’t give Joyce room to say “no.” She didn’t ask Joyce if Joyce wanted to talk about this, or do this. She just shows up, has her pee, and is like “we’re doing this.” Its way too aggressive.
So Dorothy *did* choose her current outfit deliberately, and it looks like it’s having the intended effect. That might be the most thought out part of this incredibly terrible plan.
Yeah, so, people in this comment section went from calling Dorothy a predator to insinuating I am one because I don’t agree that Dorothy is a fucking monster. Y’all need to calm the fuck down and stop being toxic. I’m out.
Quick Dorothy, change the subject! Can’t you see that Joyce’s embarrassment is so acute that it’s collapsing into a singularity?! In moments her entire face will have imploded inward!
Loading ...
How do you wash your hands, woman
(or other parts of you that require appropriate cleansing, for that matter)
…or are you speaking about at the atomic level
I work with a bunch of kids who know about that “things don’t touch on the atomic level” thing, and it is SO ANNOYING.
Threaten their ears with a slobbery pinky, and when they wail in protest say “But things don’t touch on the atomic level!”
So they can do that thing like a kid would put their finger 3″ away and say “I’m following the rules I’m not touching you” while touching you? That does sound annoying.
“Please keep your hands to yourself right now.” “Well, see, TECHNICALLY…”
Fwiw, that isn’t really true anyway. Like, it’s complicated because when you get to a subatomic level things don’t have positions or boundaries the way we think of them, but they do still “touch” for a given value of the word. If you touch a wall, that could mean you’re just grazing it, or you’re pushing into it, and the harder you “touch” the wall or the closer you get to it, the more it pushes you back. Well, the same thing is true of, say, two neutrons – there’s not really a boundary where one neutron begins and ends, but it is still true that the closer you push two neutrons together, the more force they apply to push themselves apart. In both the macro and micro scales, when that repulsive force starts being applied, that’s when two things are touching.
Now whether you can explain this to kiddos in a way that makes them less annoying abt it is another question entirely 😛
“In both the macro and micro scales, when that repulsive force starts being applied, that’s when two things are touching.”
Since most (all?) fundamental forces operate as fields, isn’t this really an everything, everywhere, all within the scope of relativity (handwave away entanglement) situation? So it’s not just when the force *starts* being applied, but when the force becomes large enough to be relevant for counting as part of the definition. “Touching” then being when the forces prevent two objects from occupying the same space.
Fun Fact: Like the moray eel, Joyce is coated in a thin layer of mucus – prevents her from touching herself and protects her from parasites.
Parasites, you say?
I can’t imagine Joyce has went 18 years never going down town at all. I mean she at least showers right? We know she pees too for that matter. She probably knows the town she’s just never explored the inner city.
She also has never thought about Joe kneading her face with his butt.
She has never never EVER never EVER never never NEVER ever EVER NEVER EVER thought about Joe kneading her face with his butt.
Other than her and sarah having diff schedules, growing up in a strict religious family and multiple brothers wouldn’t give her much opportunity.
I knew a young woman—20 at the time (I was 16)—who said she’d NEVER EVER even CONSIDERED touching herself in THAT WAY. Then after sex she admitted that the feeling was just like that explosive thing that always happens when she sits on the washing machine. One woman’s “touching herself” is another’s spin cycle.
On the positive side you provided her with a first experience as good as the washing machine. (Not joking.)
i’ve always wondered about the washing machine thing. i need my vibrations way stronger, way more direct.
Wiping and washing isn’t exactly arousing, in my experience.
‘Baths is unhygienic,’ Granny declared. ‘You know I’ve never agreed with baths. Sittin” around in your own dirt like that.’
‘What do you do, then?’ said Magrat. ‘I just washes,’ said Granny. ‘All the bits. You know. As and when they becomes available.’
Esme Weatherwax isn’t exactly my role model when it comes to sex-positivity.
„Everyone is naked under their clothes, Esme“
“I’m not! I’m wearing three vests!“
I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re sweater vests.
Nanny Ogg, on the other hand…
Ah, so it’s not just Joe living in her head rent-free. It’s Joe AND Roz.
God that whole house must reek of lube.
Using Dorothy’s hippocampus like it’s Danny’s foot…
Also, is there a way to unflag a comment, because I maaaaaay have misclicked trying to reply here…
The flag is permanent and the assassins are on their way. You’ve doomed some poor soul.
No, but it takes a certain amount of clicks for the comment to be up for review, whereupon The Great and Powerful Willis decides whether it can stay up or should be deleted.
I still think there should be a pop up with a confirm/cancel option when you click on the flag, though.
That’s all well and good, but Willis has said that they’ve enabled pretty much all of the features the plugin offers. I think we can safely conclude that that wasn’t an offered option. And he set the threshold taking that into account. I think people just need to worry a little less about clicking it accidentally.
I know that system is in place. If one of the really neat comments gets enough people directly replying to it with enough fat-finger slips, it may happen.
My first thought was “they’re putting her hippocampus in her mouth??” until I remembered that Danny’s foot was the videographer for their porno.
Which is one of my big sticking points against Roz. She had to show awareness that she involved a third party in her sex tape without his consent. No, he wasn’t involved in the fun bits, but many people who know about the video will assume that Danny, who is demonstrably there, was participating in some manner (if only just enjoying the show).
Roz’s violation of Danny’s right to withhold consent marks her as an absolute failure as an advocate of sex-positivity, as well as a grade-A hypocrite, in my book.
And also just plain rude, as long as we’re on the subject. Sure, it may not be as big a deal as the others, but it’s still true.
Conflicts like that do often arise when one is motivated significantly by optics as opposed to principle. I don’t know if it’s a primary motivation for Roz, but she’s demonstrated that it is a motivation.
Not gonna lie; I was expecting Roz to apparate in Panel 4 after Dorothy summoned her.
Sometimes definitely. When I was a kid, a non zero number of sleepovers involved some sort of sexual experimenting or “practice” for when we were in relationships.
Wow. This was supposed to be a reply to Animedingo below. Sorry.
Since this is here, I will say –
Yeah, no, this never happened at any of my sleepovers. I fucking wish – I was very sexually frustrated in highschool.
However, my wife has indicated that something like this did happen to her. She’s apparently ‘practiced’ a bit with friends.
It definitely varies by friend group. I moved around a lot as a kid and in some groups I don’t think anything even close to this ever happened. In other groups it was treated rather casually.
I did a “kiss me in the place where nobody ever kissed me” with my cousin (both girls) once. Wasn’t exactly learning masturbation (I think neither of us knew how to do that, at the time) but the same general principle
Those two are definitely not living rent free, Dorothy’s head space. Joe, and Roz, are the two most sexually active people, in her circle; what do you think Dorothy masturbates to? The way she acts around them both, is showing that she, herself, has some repressed, pent up, sexual feelings towards them.
If my journey is anything to go by… from lefty repressed Catholic perfectionist to kinky Jewish mid-30s sub… what we really need is a slipshine where Dorothy’s perfectionist-tension and hyper-focus on always being perfectly moral and socially just finally breaks and she just finds someone to call Daddy/Mommy.
Oh, like I said, she has already found them, which is why she hates them, so much. Having interacted with Joe and Roz, coupled with her sexual relations with Walky, Dorothy found out that she is really no different then those two; but, she can’t admit to that, because that level of sexual openness would be, “degrading”. Presidential hopefuls can’t have kinks, and so she tries, real hard, to bury it.
Do girls do this for each other
Is this what sleep overs actually are??
No….
not straight ones, no
I’ve been to some pretty gay sleepovers and we’ve never done this. Then again, a few of us do be ace
No, girls play Tekken until 4am and chug Monster drinks and eat whole bags of Takis.
Not gonna lie, that sounds amazing. I call Lee Chaolan.
As long as I get Eddy and spam
Sometimes they play “fuck-marry-kill” with increasingly absurd options.
I’ve heard that the ladies of Garbage Roof play “F-M-K” with ToeDad, Blaine, & Ryan as the options. o_O
I couldn’t choose, so I killed them all. :/
Logic errors will do that to you!
In-comic Ryan lives (but wishes he didn’t)
Fuck Ryan, just fuck that guy, kill Blaine because frankly he’s the most dangerous, and marry ToeDad because nothing I could do to him would be worse (to him) than being married to a man.
Easy. Fuck Toe
A coyote with human limbs, a shrimp the size of a cow, and the hockey gear from last year’s lineup of the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Well, I’m not sure *how* you would kill sporting equipment, so I guess “fuck” (also, it’s not an animal), the shrimp would probably be the easiest to find people who’d eat it post-slaughter, so “kill,” and I guess that leaves the fucked up Coyote, who I could probably find a way to profit off of by keeping around anyway, so “marry.”
I am legitimately laughing out loud.
Your logic is flawless
Charlotte, Anne, and Emily Bronte is a bit absurd.
excuse me, we played Silent Hill and Resident Evil until 4 AM and chugged pepsi because monster wasn’t invented yet
Dang, girls have good taste. That being said I’m more of a Tekken Tag 2 and Dr. Pepper kinda guy.
I call Xiaoyu regardless.
They should be. Sometimes they are! A bit of sexual exploration may be involved, some truth or dare, some egging each other on…
Sometimes girls will sexually harass you until you mention that you actually are queer, and then it’s like, oh, NOW it’s weird???
A continuation from above (in reply to Meagan) – while this didn’t happen to me, something like this did happen to my wife.
She and her friends got a little experimental at some sleepovers.
Later, my wife told her friend, whom she had experimented with, that she liked her romantically.
The friend lost her shit, freaked out, and then told the whole school about my future wife being ‘a lesbian’ and coming on to her. My wife lost basically all her friends and social standing.
So yeah, sometimes girls will also consensually do stuff with you and still freak out when you mention you’re actually queer.
Sheesh that’s AWFUL. As someone who still remembers every single confession that blew up in his face I can’t IMAGINE being outed like that and losing my entire friend group. Honestly more power to her for sticking with it and landing an awesome lady like you 😀
What, you don’t jack off your bros at sleep overs?
Remember, it’s not gay if it’s a bro-job.
I’ve counted it as one of the upsides over being a loner growing up that I never encountered any of that creepy masturbating with the other boys stuff.
Masturbating _with_ other boys. So I missed a word.
To be clear, I am referring to boys masturbating in each other’s presence but not actually touching each other, because that be gay. Which I am told is a thing, though never one I encountered.
I do recall a story of a thing guys would do where they jack off onto a cookie and the guy who lost has to eat the cookie.
Soggy biscuit?
Oh. Good. There’s a name for it.
If you watch a lot of British content, then you are likely already familiar with that name. I knew the name before I knew what it meant.
When I found out, I was both horrified and curious about the logistics.
I learned about it from an Irish animator on a podcast. I know that really narrows it down.
I think I heard it on a raunchy radio program. I remember him saying “The idea is that if you cum last you HAVE to eat the cookie. But really you don’t HAVE to do anything. You can just say “no” and leave and it’s not like they can force you to eat it”.
How did they determine who lost?
Well, if I were writing the rules, it would be the last person to contribute to the glaze.
Whoever takes the longest to finish. Why yes, that will encourage habits that may cause trouble with their partners down the road, why do you ask?
I believe that is the rule. Be good to put on your dating profile “I lose the Biscuit Game every single time.”
I know a story of hazing a new guy by declaring a circle jerk. The lights are turned off and the boys-in-the-know pat their bellies with two fingers. The lights are turned on and the new guy is the only one stroking it.
“And that’s why nobody touched my homemade Oreos!” Is going into my list of orphaned punchlines.
I heard of that a long long time ago. Supposedly it was a game/challenge practiced in cabins at summer camp.
Back then it was called “whacker cracker.”
Ew-w-ww…
a bro-job.
oh my god xD xD xD
Do nominally-heterosexual dudes actually do this? Seriously. I mean, I am fine with that, I want to be very clear. But I also kinda want to know.
Nope. It’s just a joke I heard somewhere and now I say it. I just think it’s funny.
Oh it’s hilarious. I just kind of wish it was also true? xD
I mean, it’s definitely something I’ve heard of people doing? But how many of the people that I know who have done it have, in fact, turned out to be straight? Well, I don’t really hang out with any straight people for one, so…
I’ve heard of such things going on at various points in my life, and have never doubted that they went on, though as noted, I have not personal knowledge of them.
could be a frat hazing thing? you know if your frat is gay as hell
(imagine there’s a comma before the “if”)
All frats are gay as hell.
You wanna live in a big house with tens of other men? Only men?
Kinda sus
/J
You’d be amazed what men will rationalize into being “mostly straight” or what “Doesn’t count as gay.”
Thats just bromosexuality.
I’m keeping that.
Maybe it wasn’t such a bad thing that I was the loner with no friends in school…
well there are memes /images i’ve seen that’s like a caption of girls just kissing like “straight girl activities” or so, or ppl being closeted. Or just some thinking it ‘doesn’t count’ and such
Sometimes girls peer-pressure each other into taking showers with them and then pretend it was all your idea and make fun of you for it. Or try to pressure you into putting Gold Bond Medicated Powder on your genitals and then make fun of you when you don’t. So I guess this isn’t outside the realm of possibility.
I doubt very few would actually do this for each other.
But, Joyce is a… special case. Shades of repression that is being eliminated and extreme horniness. Dorothy is acting less like a friend and more like a sex therapist here.
Like a sex therapist who is about to get sued, maybe.
Right?! I want to yell at Dorothy “hey if you think your friends mind is too clouded to make rational thoughts then what makes you think it’s okey for you to spring this on her without even asking for basic consent??? Dorothy is too caught up in getting her way to think rationally herself here and she has no business deciding this for Joyce.
You do realize that Dorothy is not at this point (and at probably no point) actually molesting or assaulting Joyce in any way, right? Simply making an offer not violating consent. You are violating consent if you do not stop when requested, the person is in incapable of giving consent, the person is under duress, there is a power imbalance, or there is misrepresentation. I don’t think any of those situations apply to Dorothy/Joyce..
We might think it is a bit weird of dorothy to offer, and might think that it is overstepping boundaries, but Joyce does have the option of saying “no”. (And has we have seen with her “get out of my ass” comment, she is able to do so with significant emphasis when the need arises.)
Dorothy is most definitely Not offering here she is telling Joyce what they are going to do without asking first. Dorothy and Joyce do have an unequal power dynamic based on their history of Dorothy deciding she knows what’s best and Joyce reluctantly following in part due to being raised to be obedient to others. Every time Joyce has asserted herself Dorothy has treated it like an irrational temper tantrum, notice how there is not apology from Dorothy to Joyce fron earlier? It’s because Dorothy sees nothing wrong with her behavior. Joyce might really have a hard time saying no due Dorothy treating this like a logical thing Joyce would be childish to refuse. Like going to the pharmacy she’s over stepping Joyce’s boundaries and not accepting Joyce’s ” get out of my ass’ comments as a true refusal. This is a big problem.
Do you really think asking consent means phrasing everything as a question?
You can make a prescription, and the other person can say “no, I’m uncomfortable with that”.
Dorothy has a history of dismissing Joyce’s discomfort as i have already explained above. That is why express consent is so important in the Joyce/Dorothy dynamic. “No I am uncomfortable with that” only works when said discomfort is taken seriously. From past behavior Dorothy would likely take Joyce’s refusal as an invitation work harder to get her to do the thing she doesn’t want to do because she thinks it’s for Joyce’s own good.
In a context where Joyce has explicitly and forcefully insisted that her friends should stop imposing sexuality onto her, offering to teach her how to mastrubate really really really needs to be a question. She’s also complained about her friends intruding into her personal life and building a breakfast nook in her ass (although that metaphor had gotten away from her at that point).
She’s skipping steps (and ignoring Joyce’s “no, I’m uncomfortable with that”) for that to be the case here. She might be a decent person generally, but she’s making some horrible mistakes.
Or possibly laid.
My junior year roommate DID buy me a vibrator because I was repressed.
Years later I am very thankful
(Although she did not teach me how to use it, nor would I have been OK with that.)
There’s some evidence of this: https://youtu.be/luZyMQjPTkM [NSFW]
No Dorothy is completely disregarding boundaries here and deciding for Joyce what she needs and that she’s the ideal person to teach Joyce.
One of my friend’s mom’s refused to teach her about tampons. She thought they were sinful. We were kids and it was years before I knew of any other alternatives and my friend sure didn’t. My friend hated pads. It’s not quite the same but it was an intimate thing I had to teach her that she hadn’t learned because of religious sex-purity bs, so yeah, I bet this kind of thing does need to happen when people leave extreme fundy brainwashing like Joyce has.
Joyce might need some guidance but Dorothy should not be the one doing it. The power dynamic is way too uneven.
What power dynamic? Dorothy is not in a position of authority over Joyce. She isn’t her boss, teacher, mentor, etc. Dorothy being more experienced in some areas than Joyce does not mean she holds a position of power over Joyce. Dorothy feeling that she knows better than Joyce about certain topics does not mean she’s in a position of power over Joyce.
If not a similarly aged friend who knows more about sex than her who else should Joyce talk to about sex and masturbation?
Dorothy might not have an official position of power but she is somebody Joyce has difficulty saying no to. She’s the mom friend who Joyce already perceived as being better then herself and when Joyce expresses anger toward her behavior such as the pharmacy trip Dorothy just dismisses Joyce and tells her she made her do it for her own good and that Joyce should stop resisting. While it might be well meaning it doesn’t change the fact that Dorothy does not treat Joyce as an equal. Joyce can ask Sarah if she really needs someone or seek out someone not in her friend group but it needs to be on Joyce’s own terms. Her knowledge of sexual exploration should not start with someone telling her she has to right now because being horny makes her too dumb to pick the right sexual partner( Dorothy argument against Joe)
I agree with you
While you’re not wrong about Joyce and Dorothy’s relationship in general, nothing you’ve described there is an uneven power dynamic. Joyce may find it hard to tell Dorothy “no”, or isn’t because Dorothy has any kind of leverage over her. She doesn’t have institutional authority, she doesn’t control Joyce’s access to resources. She doesn’t even have significant social clout to use. The entire problem you’ve described is “Joyce struggles to enforce her boundaries and Dorothy doesn’t respect them anyway. That’s definitely a problem, but it isn’t power.
No, but some people do recommend vibrators or go to adult toy stores together.
I can say nothing like this ever happened to me.
Oh. Wait no.
Okay, something vaguely like this did happen to me once. Except the girl and I were dating, and I was ‘what is your preferred type of orgasms’ and she was like ‘I don’t know – I don’t know what an orgasm is’ and I was like “okay, let me show you”.
And then I did. And then she was like “OH that. Yeah, I’ve done that. I never knew what the name was.”
It’s not just for girls. My first time to both first and second base happened at a co-ed party in junior high in front of like 6 people who were egging it on.
And don’t get me started on The Handjob Tree
…I…. would really like to get you started on The Handjob Tree…
Sus.
I’m picturing the porn version of “The Giving Tree.”
I’ll be honest, it’s funnier if I just say “don’t get me started on The Handjob Tree” than if I actually get started on The Handjob Tree. The Handjob Tree is exactly what it says in the name.
Something something morning wood
In retrospect, maybe the name is a little ambiguous. The Handjob Tree was a large old cypress tree whose dense, low-lying branches somehow became well-known for their ability to (mostly) conceal public handjobs performed behind them.
My wife and I drove past my old school a couple years ago and were disappointed to see it had been cut down. i CaN’t iMaGiNe WhY.
Oooh, sure. There was a cluster of pine trees in the park by my middle school that were known for being a great place for concealed making out.
The blinking neon sign above your head was a clue, Joyce.
I need to know the logistics of this. Is Dorothy just gonna drop her pants or is there a video she can point Joyce to? What’s her game plan here?
Her smug look in the last panel, those straps… is she really trying to imitate Dina or something? ’cause that’d be pretty fucking hilarious. And the Dunning-Krueger effect in action.
They’re gonna record it side-by-side for later visual comparisons, which will be broken down into clear categories like speed, wrist movement, and pressure, then compared based on time and muscle tension.
Of course, there will be a telestrator, like during sports commentaries.
It seems like it’s laundry day, so it might be a bit like that older art print of Joyce and Sarah… she tells Joyce to sit on the drier, and get in touch with how her own body feels…?
Drop her own pants or Joyce’s? Or both?
I assume a comprehensive spreadsheet and diagrams.
What, is she Edward Verres now?
Mr. Verres would’ve already broken out the whiteboard.
Wouldn’t you want Faz for that?
A well-researched PowerPoint presentation. With handouts.
decorative yet perverse towel folding used as a diagram. followed by riding the dryer.
Then Becky and Dina walk in.
Then Mary walks in.
Followed by Dumbing Of Age: French Doors, a farce in three (carnal) acts.
Since laundry was mentioned Can we assume the washing machine is being used as a sex toy? I haven’t seen today’s comic yet.
I did it! Having finally, fixed my internet’s issue with this website, I return.
Let’s see what is happening it the world of Joyce shall we … Wait, What the Fuck?!?!
So basically this but hornier?
Yes. Except, unfortunately, while the author is a flaming troll, he can’t be destroyed by eating him.
Methinks the lady doth protest too much….
lol how does she do a lip bite like that w/o it bleeding.
but it’s possible she only ever did it once and was too shamed/self loathing afterwards for it to really be enjoyable to do again
Being a cartoon character helps.
Finished once, but she might start a lot, and definitely the shame and self-loathing kick in. Even after apostasy, she still feels like a “gross wierdo” for being horny.
Remember the horrorscape nightmare she had about sex?
dotty this is a terrible fucking idea. just absolutely awful
can’t wait to see how this goes
So delicious, Dotty is an explosion of repression and bad decisions and good intentions ready to blow up. Hopefully Joyce’s repressed attraction to Dorothy will get her through this having had an awkward but good time.
Repressed? Are you reading a different comic than the rest of us? Because Dottie used it in the last story line as a carrot to lead Joyce to the pharmacy. Then, Joyce actively and publicly fantasized they were a couple, to get her through it.
Yes, repressed. Hell, she’s repressing her feelings about Joe while actively pursuing them. Joyce is extremely good at repression. If she is indeed attracted to Dorothy, those feelings are buried deep where she hasn’t consciously acknowledged them.
The best part, of course, is that she IS suppressing her feelings for Joe. You know what comes up in a really good self-gratification session? Desire.
Dorothy, this ain’t gonna work like you think it’s gonna….
That would make it especially creepy because then it would mean Dorothy took advantage of Joyce’s feeling (possible attraction and being horny) to control her and get her away from Joe right before going away to Yale. This is not cute it’s possessive and controlling to a disturbing new level and Dorothy is too busy fantasizeing about one upping both Joe and now Roz apparently to see how inappropriate she is being towards somebody who trusts her.
Yes Joyce! Give in to the anarchy!!!
Ha aha ha ha ha ha ha!! 🤘😈🤘
*plays “Apocalypshit” by Molotov on hacked muzak*
I would have used some Joan Jett, but there you are.
Nah. Between Joyce and the topic, it’s gotta be Creature of the Night IMO.
Followed up by Divinyls:
“When I think about you I never never EVER never EVER never never NEVER ever EVER NEVER EVER touch myself…”
This feels like it should be a slipshine exclusive..just WHAT is the plan here Dorothy?
Get Joyce to masturbate
?????
Profit.
Sit on washing machine.
Profit.
Seriously, y’all just miss that part of the conversation? This is like, the lowest stakes masturbating possible.
OH.
“innovative”, like women haven’t been sitting on washing machines since the 1950s.
Low stakes low reward
Like, does anyone actually feel anything doing that? I always thought it was fake
Not a washing machine but one time I held a bottle between my legs on a buss (was looking through my bag for something, didn’t do it with this as an end goal) and it changed my whole perpsective on public transport, let me tell you.
I doubt it’d get me off specifically, but as an introduction to the concept, it’s not bad. Certainly a lot more Joyce friendly than taking her to a sex shop and vibrator shopping, which would definitely result in a complete panic meltdown.
Pretty sure that picture already exists, but it’s with Joyce and Sarah.
Hey where do yall get your avatars for this?
I make mine, for the most part.
I was apparently given a random one
I took a screenshot of the random Joyce avatar, and made it look like me with MS Paint.
You must be a really talented artist if you can make something look that good in MS Paint! 😃
And oh boy did you hit the jackpot.
(I may be biased)
If you don’t have one through gravatar, you get a random one based off of your email address. If you want to change to a different random one, just capitalize different letters in your email address.
Dollar store.
It was just sitting there. I was going to bring it back, I swear.
Still under the impression you
stoleborrowed her, then.If I recall correctly, you hit the link “Get a Gravatar” besides NAME (and above EMAIL and Website URL).
I drew mine 😛 Years ago though. Maybe I should change it. Then again this one’s a classic.
It is.
I used to draw a new avatar for myself each month. I think it was some attempt to be trendy or something similarly silly, but I suspect it also was good practice. Drawing icons means getting a feel for how much you can communicate in a very small image– try to make it too complex, and it loses the easy and fast readability that an icon requires for its job.
I don’t draw nowadays; when I realized my most recent avatar was approaching a decade old, I just started using Grumpy Cat (rest her soul) to communicate “No, I probably do not want to be your friend.”
If you just post here, you get assigned one of the avatars Willis makes up, based on your email. It will stay the same for months until Willis changes the list, when it will change unpredictably to someone else.
If you don’t like the one you have, note that the choice is sensitive to the case in your email. So if you don’t like the one you get as me@foobar.test, Try Me@foobar.test or me@foobAr.test, etc, until you find one you like.
OR:
You can get a gravatar. Go to gravatar.com and create an account (if you already have a WordPress account you can use that there). Then upload the picture of your choice (while complying with gravatar’s ToS, of course). Then it will be shown on all your posts here.
That is what I’ve done. My avatar is a gravatar image taken from the anime “.hack//SIGN”. Most if not all of the non DoA avatars are probably like this.
One more note: Avatars on old posts do not stay they way they were. If you change your gravatar today, the posts you made last week or last year change to the new one. Similarly, when the default one for your email changes because Willis uploads new ones, all your old posts change too.
I’ll stop now.
Therre are other sites that will generate avatars based on your email. I can no longer find the one that made mine, unless it’s changed beyond recognition. But creating different ways to make random images for avatars seems to have been a popular pastime at some point.
There’s a full write-up on [Grav Roulette](https://walkypedia.fandom.com/wiki/Grav_Roulette) on Walkypedia.
Ugh… this aint reddit. 🤦🏼♂️
Grav Roulette
Paid an artist friend for it. I use it 99% of places you’d find me online. I’ve prefered to be consistent about that for around 15 years (same name, same avatar, same me)
likewise
Made mine, it’s an illustration of my alien OC / online persona NGPZ 🙃
Made mine with the Androidify app, back when that was a fad.
Played Gravatar Roulette until it landed on the one I wanted.
The default is randomly assigned, but you can re-roll by tweaking the email you use. There’s a full write-up on Grav Roulette on Walkypedia.
So… how do we think this is going to go?
well, on the patreon strip you can see a blurred preview and carla’s there, so it depends on how loud joyce was being/if carla overheard
Last panel smirk. I do find it funny when Dorothy isn’t above it all.
Still, ehhhh. I do think this is something Joyce *should* learn how to do for her own sake, like to get away from her background like she wants to do, anyhow, and because it’s perfectly fine. I just am side-eyeing Dorothy’s motivations.
Of course, if Joyce DOES partake and still wants to ride Joe, then she’ll have to concede Joyce actually likes the guy.
Perhaps Joyce will actually tell her best friend about all these heart-to-hearts and supportive text convos she has been having with Joe. Let her in on the character development he has had and how he’s already been a good friend who doesn’t come on to her.
There’s a thought! But then, how would Dorothy feel to know that Joyce has been pouring her heart out to someone else about things, instead of her??
She’ll probably justify it to herself as “all part of Joe’s game”, for Dorothy Cannot Be Wrong.
Possibly, but at this point she’s basically got no reason to think she’s wrong about Joe, other than blind trust in horny Joyce’s judgement (Looks back at Joyce & Jacob).
Learning more about why Joyce thinks Joe’s changed would at least give her reasons to question herself. Then we can blame her if she doesn’t with more justification.
She hasn’t shown any inclination to hearing Joyce out about this, only insisting that She Is Right because Dorothy Cannot Be Wrong and therefore Joyce needs to drop this whole Joe thing because Dorothy Knows Better.
Joyce also hasn’t even tried to say anything other than blatantly obvious denials about being horny for him.
Right. This is a situation that has two creators.
Joyce obviously doesn’t *owe* Dorothy an explanation, but Dorothy isn’t omniscient and Joyce letting her know, “Hey, Joe and I got close because he talked me through my parents’ divorce, he helped me during the Jacob fiasco, and now he’s been really cool about the potential autism”, etc, would certainly illuminate things.
Real talk though: If Joyce tells Becky about this, there’s gonna be a fist fight.
I think Becky has accepted that Joyce sees her as a sister regardless of possibly being or not being into girls herself?
No, I don’t think Dorothy will concede that.
The problem is something this personal should happen on Joyces own terms and Dorothy coming over ininvited with no apology from earlier and just straight up telling Joyce what to do is the opposite of that. This feels like Dorothy’s desire to never be told she can’t do something rearing it’s head in a particularly ugly way.
Ah yes a smug remark at Joyce’s expense after embarrassing her by blowing right past Joyce’s boundaries
Dorothy is coming across as kind of unlikable in this particular instance
She kind of does this a lot. I’m hoping it’s going to give her some kind of arc but who knows.
Dorothy only does it because she knows better than everyone.
That’s why she has to become President, see. So she can fix everything.
I worked with someone like that recently. Really truly unlikeable person right there.
I eagerly await the uppance that is coming for Dotty.
She constantly reads as smarmy to me, that “I know best” nonsense when she’s just as clueless as the bulk of them.
I’m beginning to worry that she’s coming unglued from pressure and overwork (both self-imposed) and this is how she breaks: trading judgment for earnestness until she cracks and runs off because it’s not working anymore. Nobody can find her for a week, and then she turns up in a dark corner of a disused lab. “hiding” under a blanket, a blubbering wreck reeking of alcohol. (Her friends help her dry out, and then she starts a spreadsheet of her mistakes to help construct a program to keep that from happening ever again.)
What I’m getting at is that to me this feels like more Dorothy than Dorothy usually is.
In some ways, this is Darth Dotty–she’s giving in to all her worst impulses.
Can’t wait until she discovers that the real consequence here is flipping a switch in Joyce’s brain that says, “Wait–Joe and I could feel like THAT?”
Her self image of being in control (of her own life, of orchestrating her friends’ lives with sage advice) coming crashing down is her abductee power.
I was expecting Roz to burst in on panel four.
Bloody ‘ell Dorothy, where do you get. . .
Okay bad phrasing.
What part of your sleep-deprived mind made you think this was in any way a good idea?
To spring on your friend, unprompted, right after she told you off for interfering and busy-bodying. . .HALF IN THE HALLWAY where everyone can hear.
Because those Dorm-Room doors and walls would not muffle sound worth a DAMN.
At least if they’re anything like the dorms at my first semester of college.
Like I actually admit to admiring her *bluntly* she is laying down her motives for all of this, but STILL.
Dorothy still has this attitude of “I know I’m right about everything” and that accusation about Joyce not being clear headed? If true that’s a great reason why Dorothy is especially wrong to persume to decide anything for Joyce regarding sexuality right now. I am really hoping Joyce sticks to her earlier boundary because everything Dorothy is doing here is a red flag.
Joyce does need to learn, no let me rephrase.
It would benefit Joyce if she knew how to masturbate, but this is entirely the wrong way to go about providing her that knowledge, and for entirely the wrong reasons. Dotty, just stop.
I kinda can’t think of a good way to do it, though. Like, this was always going to be a trainwreck of a situation regardless how it happens and with whom. Tearing a bandaid off, you know?
Joyce is certainly not going to try it on her own, as that last panel makes extremely clear. Who else would be trusted with the task? Her parents? Her siblings? Becky? Sarah? Leslie? Roz? Ruth?
Give her a book, and possibly an inexpensive toy. There are slim books that just give you a how-to guide for different pleasant sensations — and lots of permission, over and over again.
There’s going to be a day where Dorothy realizes Joe is fine for Joyce and it’ll be too late in some way or another and she’ll lose her mind.
Maybe I’m just projecting what I want to happen.
It could easily backfire like, “Well that was nice but not enough, I need a real d**” (IDK what words get censored or not here lol)
Because otherwise, some teens would never bother with dating. cept for the ’emotional connection’ but i’d prefer having 2-3 good friends versus a partner personally
Dorothy, watching their first “real” date from behind a newspaper at another table at Galasso’s: “He’s only after one thing, I just know it. He’ll get what he wants and break her heart.”
Dorothy, as one of Joyce’s bridesmaids as Hank walks her down the aisle: “Yup, any second now he’s going to drop the façade.”
Dorothy, babysitting a little boy who looks like Joe with Joyce’s eyes and a slightly older girl who looks like Joyce with Joe’s face: “This is it. His act is finally going to slip. Any day now he’s going to have his arms around another woman.”
Dorothy, 20 years later, in the pews as Joe walks said (now grown) girl down the aisle): “I KNEW IT.”
Dorothy at their 50th anniversary: Any day now…
Dorothy at Joe’s funeral, after 70 years of dedicated monogamy with Joyce: “I knew he’d abandon you eventually. All the clues were there.”
The Joe angle was fairly evident, but I don’t know that anyone was speculating on the “that’ll show Roz” element yesterday. Makes sense, though.
Yeah tbh I didn’t really see that one coming
As character writing, I really do like it– characters have deep, complex motivations that aren’t always obvious but can track in hindsight? Yes, please.
yeah, I called the Joe thing in one of my million comments yesterday, but didn’t see that coming either. Even if it was partly inspired as a reaction to Roz I wouldn’t expect it to be this conscious
https://imgur.com/a/RFrj6AR (NSFW)
Oops my pen slipped.
I knew you would do it the moment I saw this update
Get Yoto more slippery pens STAT
Was it slippery because it was recently placed somewhere moist and possibly warm
FUCK. IN MY HASTE I FORGOT THE FRECKLES. THOSE ARE THE BEST PART.
Get Yoto more frekles STAT
Nice pen slippage anyway.
EDUCATIONAL AS FUCK, SON
YES
*fans self* oh gosh
SIZZLING
PLZ ADD FREKKLES THO
THANK U
This is everything i wanted it to be thank you
Is there a gallery where I can see all your art?
https://imgur.com/a/8Q50mBQ (NSFW)
Here’s my big ol’ comprehensive post with all my DOA fanart. If you just wanna know where I post in general just look up Yotomoe. That’s basically my name everywhere.
Normally I like your art, but given we’ve had two strips so far of Joyce being horrified by the idea this kinda feels disgusting as hell.
Technically speaking I drew this after yesterday’s strip where her reaction was more of just coughing (and peeing). Which coulda been more shocked at the proposal than horrified.
That being said I’m probably just covering my butt. Most of my art takes place in a “everyone is cool with this” reality. It’s not like I think actual canon Billie would ever sleep with Walky, etc.
Then why have you spent the past 4 hours staring at it and sharing it with all your friends?
You appear to be projecting again.
This feels like a classic case of “doing the right thing for the wrong reasons” thing for Dorothy. Helping Joyce become more sexually comfortable and secure with herself is a good thing, but Dorothy seems more motivated by the idea it could hamper the prospects of Joyce and Joe hooking up than Dorothy wanting to genuinely help Joyce (though I am well aware that Dorothy’s justification would be that preventing Joe and Joyce from hooking up is a valid form of “genuinely helping” Joyce, which kinda part of the problem).
I mean, She’s known Joe for years now. We’ve seen what he was like. Joe’s change of heart vis a vis relationships is a VERY new development. You can’t entirely blame Dorothy for dismissing it as another tactic Joe is trying to get Laid.
Dorothy can have understandable (and even justified) feelings towards Joe cur to his past behavior, that also doesn’t change the fact that Dorothy’s current motivations towards “helping” Joyce right are kinda more about being self-righteous and patronizing towards Joyce than being interested in actually respecting Joyce as an individual (while still being concerned for her) and equal.
Yeah given Dorothy’s controlling nature towards Joyce I don’t think it’s a good idea for her to be teaching this to Joyce especially without any apologizing for her previously controlling behaviors ots Just Dorothy doubling down on getting Joyce undercontrol and away Joe.
Everything we’ve seen of previous Joe was bad but only “give them a warning and then if they blow you off, it’s college, doomed relationships are learning experiences” bad, not THIS nonsense bad.
It also shows how little she thinks of Joyce’s judgement.
Mm, more “doing the wrong thing” (this) “to work toward a goal that may be good” (Joyce being more comfortable with sexuality) “for the wrong reasons” (spite toward multiple people).
Sure, by “right thing” I meant more greater goal/desired quality, not necessarily Dorothy’s current means of going about it.
This is going way beyond acceptable behaviour. This is morally reprehensible.
Random guess: Dorothy cheated on Danny with Joe.
Honestly I don’t think she did. I think she probably hooked up with him post-walky at some point we didn’t see. (given her expression when Joe says everyone gets mad when they find sex/sin/etc when they come to him looking for it)
I initially wasn’t on board with the “Dorothy and Joe hooked up during the time skip” theory, but I’ve been thinking about the potential fallout of that and have started to come around. Can you imagine the drama? I’d eat that up with a cracker.
That wouldn’t just be ooc for Dorothy, it’d be so far ooc for Joe i think he’d combust on the spot
I am kinda rooting for they hooked up post walky bc that sounds fun
I don’t think it’d be OOC for Joe.
I do think that it’d be OOC for Joe to have kept it secret this long, though. >_>
I’m pretty sure Dorothy hooked up with Joe in high school, and then felt used. Remember Dorothy saying she’d had sex with three guys? That would be Danny, Walky, and… who?
I don’t even wanna know where that logic comes from.
Highly doubtful. Infidelity is Joe’s hot-button issue, since he saw his father’s cheating implode his parents’ marriage, and that doesn’t seem like something Dorothy would do. If Dorothy and Joe hooked up, it was either before Danny or before the divorce.
I think it’s more that Dorothy had a front-and-center view of Joe’s previous behavior and thinks he hasn’t broken the pattern (or is unable to break it).
Good points all.
Also, in the interest of oversharing…
Some people legitimately don’t like touching themselves that way? Like, for lots of reasons, such as sensory stuff, trauma, gender things (probably not for Joyce, but). It can be a lot. And you don’t have to! Is there going to be room for “you don’t have to do this” in Dorothy’s lesson? Because it sure doesn’t seem like it.
Okay, to get to the oversharing part: I do not like doing it with my hands. Some other things are fine. Some things make me freak even more. Point is: ugh.
Same on the hands thing. Just can’t get into it. Never could.
Also same. No disgust with texture or perceived uncleanliness or anything, just have never really been able to enjoy it. (Other people’s hands work fine though, so maybe it’s like trying to tickle myself or something)
If we’re over sharing, i also hate doing it with my hands. It just feels like work, it takes too long and my arms all sore after. With a more efficient tool it can be over and done with in a couple minutes and i can get back to playing honkai impact or whatever
Damn, share the comic where the ‘lesson’ already happened, do I have to pay slipshine for that?
Kindly fuck off. <3
the closest this even came to implying Yumi knew where it was going was saying “it doesn’t SEEM like it”
“I never touch myself” is like a really easy tee up for “can I touch you, then?”
IDK how often the person would be receptive to this, if they’re at least not as ‘repressed’ as joyce because that’d def end up not going over well if they’re not already ‘warmed up’ to go further, otherwise things would get awkward or someone would get slapped lol
Oh thank goodness I was worried Dorothy was going to have a rational reason to randomly burst into her friends dorm to teach her how to masturbate
I have to imagine the list of reasons that’d ever be rational decision is pretty damn short.
“I installed monitoring software on your computer and saw you were Googling it anyway but then quickly closing out of the tab, SO…”
I suppose the rationality of the decision itself doesn’t speak to the rationality of precipitating events…
“Well, see, I was concerned you might be Googling how to masturbate but then quickly closing out of the tab, SO…”
Thanks, I was feeling some discomfort yesterday, but you have clarified it. I was afraid Dorothy were doing that motherly thing she was doing to Joyce all this chapter, like teaching how to swallow pills
.
I don’t want anybody else. When I think about you I don’t touch myself.
Oh I don’t want, anybody else. I have never ever never touched my self!
Don’t toucha-toucha-toucha me! I don’t wanna be dirty!
Don’t chill me thrill me fulfill me, creature of the night!
there’s a special kind of bliss
not engendered by a kiss
surreptitiously indulged in less well known
for when one cannot make love with another
one can still Make Love Alone
almost sounds like an epigram
don’t touch me
Isnt Joyce. Bleeding down there.
Maybe Dorothy has an anatomically correct model of the requesite thing in her bag and is going to give a lecture on this and it isn’t going to be what we are thinking because I mean Joyce Is Bleeding Down There
I get that you’re squicked rn but like. Some folks do masturbate while menstruating. Some even engage in other sexual activities with partners while menstruating.
Of course people do. But for someone that’s squeamish about masturbation at the best of times, having your learning experience be with the added complication of being on your period is Unideal.
Indeed!
Going down on someone on their period is even referred to as a ”Count Dracula”, around these parts.
(Except, well… lose the ”O”)
“Earning your red wings” around these parts. (Which also involves the name of… our NHL team… huh…)
Oooo! That’s pretty good! 😀
Love how this is apparently Plan B instead of “openly and plainly state your concerns about Joe as a person and romantic interest like you’re talking to an adult”.
By which I mean “I completely understand how this conclusion was arrived at but my god, Dorothy”.
…this was supposed to be a standalone comment, not sure why it got tacked into this thread?
I don’t think Dorothy would’ve told her to clean out her system if she just planned to use props.
Orgasms can help with the cramps!
Just because there’s blood down there, does not mean it stops feeling good. And I rather doubt that they’re going to the laundry room to whip out their bits directly. I suspect it’s gonna be “Sit on this washing machine.” Possibly with a anatomically correct model of the OTHER thing.
You can masturbate on your period. Might be messy to do it skin-to-skin, but it’s possible, and it’s easy enough to get off with a few layers of clothes between hand and vagina if you apply the right pressure.
I also don’t think Dorothy is suggesting skin-to-skin masturbation so much as “sitting on a poorly loaded washer/dryer and hoping for the best” but we’ll see!
you’re also not bleeding every single second of it, so she could easily wipe herself down (feels like she would’ve mentioned blood too in the other panel of her talking about cleaning pee off the floor) but i assume dorothy would have any charts, but there is still outer stimulation without using fingers/toys for penetration, so to speak
What kinds of menstruation products does Joyce use? If she’s still bleeding, there still probably wouldn’t haven been blood on the floor if she had a tampon in.
She uses pads. She’s asked someone to get her one in a strip and mentioned that she needed a new pad when she and Joe were walking back from the art class.
She doesn’t have to solely use pads, but it makes sense that she would. I hated using tampons and wasn’t even brought up the way Joyce was where there could be a ton of cultural baggage.
Is she? At some point, I got the idea in my head that she’d wrapped that up by now, but I couldn’t point to when.
I was a lost for words the other day because Dorothy caught me off gaurd. But man Dorothy is really driven by wanting to stop this Joe and Joyce thing, it’s like the Antithesis to the whole “shipper on deck” trope.
Submariner On Alert.
Truly bespoke, thank you.
Damn antis so determined they made it into canon
* goes to see if there’s a opposite trope to “Shipper on Deck” *
And of course there is:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShippingTorpedo
I was kinda on-board with the “Dorothy No” camp, mostly holding out for confirmation that Dorothy was actually going to do it the way we thought.
But I’m going to step back from “Dorothy No” to “Dorothy Maybe”. Because those Joyce faces are WORTH it.
Hey, was Green Eggs and Ham bad for growing understanding around consent
😗😗😗 wouldn’t be the worse thing Dr Suess has made.
People are like, “Nobody’s favorite Dr. Seuss book was ‘And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street.'” But here’s THE THING: My favorite Dr. Seuss book was “And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street.”
I mean, I grew into a person who sees the problems with it, but it was, of course, disappointing to realize.
Mulberry Street was my first Seuss when I was nine. I’d never even heard of him. I remember I loved it, but don’t remember what went on in it.
Specifically, I was referring to the very problematic WWII propaganda he made.
Hey, here’s a game: What Dr. Seuss book do you think would be each character’s favorite?
Dorothy may have read Green Eggs and Ham too many times, but would probably sat her favorite was Oh, The Places You’ll Go.
Joyce was maybe Did I Ever Tell You How Lucky You Are? but didn’t realize it was because it reminded her of what her parents might say sometimes.
Walky liked The Cat in the Hat. (Sal refused to take on the role of “Thing 2.”)
Becky enjoyed How The Grinch Stole Christmas, which she read in secret because there wasn’t enough Jesus in it to be okay to read openly.
Danny read Horton Hears A Who.
I feel like Dina was a One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish girl.
Sarah? The Sneetches and Other Stories, but her favorite story in it is The Zax.
Sal was all about Yertle the Turtle.
Joe loved If I Ran the Zoo.
After watching the show: absofuckinglutely god damn Sam learned to take a fucking hint you asshole, you don’t deserve your friends or your mother’s love
…i have strong opinions on many things
Wait until you see the gritty prequel miniseries that covers Sam-I-Am’s depressing backstory and paints him in a super sympathetic light, coming out this 2025.
(I know at least one person who would not only think this is a real thing, but also they’d remember “how the book originally was”, which would coincidentally be much darker also)
I don’t know. I just can’t buy Dorothy’s explanation.
But let’s go “laundry”, Joyce is clearly curious about it.
Called it.
Calling it now: Dorothy, after all else fails, asks Joyce to date her instead in a last-ditch attempt to get her not to date Joe. Hijinks ensue.
Im probably echoing alot of he comments but Ya know what Joyce should learn this on her own at her own pace on the internet from someone whose motivations not driven by spite and derision towards others (Dina Sarah or even Jenifer are more qualifed) This may be sex positive but its not positive in general it is another attempt to control Joyce’s life and Dorothy needs to stop doubling down. If Joyce wants to its fine but Dorothy should say hey do you want to learn how to masturbate no I am going to teach you beacuse it takes away Joyce’s prefrence.
Even if Joyce agrees its likely to drive Joyce to have sex with Joe alot of people like sex and Joyce doesn’t appear to fall under any of the asexual preferences. So after leaning how to masturbate she may want to try it.
Joyce could very easily learn this stuff on her own / from the internet. I think the problem is that she still has some sexual repression and wouldn’t do so on her own. I think it’s probably less of a case of “Dorothy the Instructor” and more a case of “Dorothy the Motivator” (And I don’t know if Dina/Sarah/etc. would be willing.)
It’s still not coming from a fully altrusitic place Dorothy is using this a means of controlling Joyce and or her own life, she doesnt want her dating Joe without realizing the change Joe and Joyce have gone through. she is also doing this out spit towards Roz that is not a good place to start
. Yes Joyce is sexually repressed and honestly Doorthy is not qualified to help. Joyce could seek the advice of Profesional or someone who is not trying to control Joyce beacuse they feel they can’t control their own life.
Joyce doesn’t need Dorothy to run her life Joyce needs to Dorothy to support her. Which is not what she is doing
How have we gotten this far without someone mentioning that advisory to young men about never marrying girls who abused their “Sin-Cave”?
idk how many ppl are actively religious here or Wilis’ specific former religiou, so i don’t know if some would have specific examples rather than overall “pleasure is a sin”
Tho joyce was pretty anxiety ridden about “what if your grandmas watching everything in heaven” or so/convo with sarah about ppl going through past sins or so and she said something like “moms gonna know about the time i thought about harry styles”
I don’t know about his denomination, but for me it was implied (or claimed outright) that masturbation was adultery (yes, there’s verses). Just a whole vibe of “you’re a terrible person, you should feel guilty for betraying your future spouse. oh hey, we’re handing out forgiveness here, isn’t that convenient!”
There’s a particularly grody mega church pastor named Mark Driscoll who equated it with gay sex.
/me raises hand at “actively religious” but my experience is nothing like Joyce’s. Chastity was more like an obvious and pervasive assumption.
,,,,,,the what
You can’t repress your nearly-hypersexed self by hiding under the sheets, doing nothing, forever, yanno.
I actually thought it was Jennifer she was trying to one-up. Didn’t suspect Roz to come up here (although it makes sense, of course).
I mean, in terms of spite-powered WLW shenanigans, Jennifer should certainly feel attacked here.
Dorothy, if that pinup of Joyce on the washing machine from back in the day is canon, I hope you have a better plan than that to entertain the poor girl
and yes, I’m aware that suggests Walky put a Doritos Locos Taco on his dick, and frankly that MUST be canon
I do not like where this is going one bit, especially since it looks like the narrative is presenting Dorothy as kinda in the right?
I think it’s kind of early to be interpreting the narratives stance. Definitely understandable to be uncomfortable with this, though.
Does it? Joyce is super repressed and should probably figure herself out at some point, sure, but it looks to me like the narrative is just doing the “Dorothy reacts very poorly to people suggesting she can’t do something” thing.
There are several things for Joyce to object to here, it could take more than a few seconds for her to get to them all. “I don’t want other people to think I think about sex” isn’t ultimately the most important, but it’s probably the quickest reflex.
It’s been two strips, covering maybe the span of a minute if they’re talking slowly. Where are you getting the idea that Dorothy’s “in the right”?
It’s definitely not, she’s even shown being petty in this very strip, you’re probably just used to her usually being in the right narratively
Awwwwwkward.
I cannot help but read that in Lumpy Space Princess’s voice 😂
This is my favorite little romantic arc yet. Hands down!
i’m mildly surprised they don’t just go to a campus female masturbation workshop. those tended to happen once a semester at the college i went to, precisely because of this exact fundie situation. maybe those aren’t an IU thing, but i mean i was in iowa, so
They’d have to know about one and feel safe assuming Roz isn’t there and Dorothy needs this to happen RIGHT NOW
yeah, i mean, what’s happening is first year of college *plausible,* it’s more that dorothy is engaging in a “high jink” rather than doing the research and going to the experts the way, uh, joyce took ethan to a coming out meetup.
a campus what now
Tbh i have no right to be shocked i got my first vibe at a stall some sex toy shop opened at a research fair on campus
I had a vision, of Dumbing Of Age, but with a visual filter, like dinosaur comics has. Today’s is the first it works well with since then. I put it on tumblr, but I don’t know if I did it right (tell me if there’s settings/etiquette I should have done).
Willis, we need Dorothy’s tank top (maybe as a tee)!
Is there where that toon of Joyce getting off on top the dryer comes from?
I remember that! Joyce is making a face that’s a mix of shock and horror! I can’t remember where I saw it.
Its on the Dumblr, someone linked it yesterday if you want to go see
Yup, she is just butthurt over Joyce being close to Joe.
Christ, Dorothy.
Anyone else counting the “never”s to make sure Joyce didn’t end up in a double negative?
ooooho she wanna teach her post nut clarity XD
This “post nut clarity” thing feels like a myth.
In all honesty it’s more like No More Horny Brain. When you are horny you might enjoy or do things you wouldn’t on Normal Brain.
I think at this point, “no more horny brain” would require me to get a lobotomy. It takes like nothing at all to get my brain thinking thoughts, so that’s probably where the disconnect is coming from.
When you think about it, I wonder if Dotty is feeling lonely. Danny moved on to Sal, who isn’t a clone of Dotty like Amber. Walky is getting serious about Lucy. Becky has Dina and is mending her fences with Joyce. Joyce is starting to buddy up with Joe and he actually seems like a better support system then Dotty.
She might be feeling like a third wheel in a lot of her key relationships.
It does feel like it
Oh come on. Joyce literally just told her to stop giving her shit about sex stuff. As in it was the shouted as Joyce stormed off the last time they spoke. What the hell Dorothy?
I can already see the outcome
Joyce: Dorothy! What have you done?!
Dorothy: What do you mean?
J: You said that this would make me less horny, but now I can’t stop thinking about d-doing it with Joe!
D: Ah, damnit.
Task Failed Successfully!
While I think Joyce should learn how to be able to get herself off, how pushy Dorothy is being here and how she’s approaching it in general really rubs me the wrong way. (ha, can’t help the bad joke)
Rereading this im seeing 3 red flags from Dorothy’s help here. 1 she’s again telling Joyce not asking her- in this context consent is especially important but Dorothy wants to treat this like getting glasses when it’s not. 2. She clearly just trying an alternative route to getting Joyce under her control away from Joe. 3. Now she’s motivated by spit towards roz and that’s clearly clouding her own judgment just so she can tell herself she’s just as good lf not better then her on sex positive education. Very little of this is motivated by a desire to help Joyce or respect for her and it feels like Dorothy is herself taking advantage of Joyce being horny assuming she won’t possibly say no.
Dorothy’s motivations aren’t the best, here, but I can’t blame her. To her knowledge Joe is a predator who will drop Joyce and break her heart the moment another girl comes around. And really she could be going about it way more tactfully.
But also masturbation is a normal, healthy thing for a human being to do, and who else to teach Joyce but her best (non-Becky) friend who she’s definitely not ever interested in or vice versa nope no attraction there.
:3
Dorothy’s own way of coming straight to Joyce’s room and telling her they are going to relive Joyce’s sexual repression together with no prior consent comes off as predatory here. She says Joyce’s mind is too clouded by horniness then presumes that Joyce cant refuse her?? That is straight up taking advantage of Joyces repression for her own gain. Especially if joyce does have feelings for Dorothy isn’t that another reason why going through with this could end up being the thing Joyce rushed into that she later regrets? That it might break joyces heart for Dorothy to associate herself with Joyce’s sexual relief only to go away to Yale treating Joyce like a problem she fixed??? The irony is that Dorothy is acting like Joe at his worst here, presuming shes going to be the fixed by providing sexual relief and that she will ofcourse not refuse or regret it.
I can only hope that like that time on her date with Joe, Joyce has the strength to call Dorothy out and Dorothy realizes she isn’t giving Joyce enough credit regarding making her own decisions.
What the fuck are you talking about.
I’d say it’s more infantilizing than predatory.
Kind of, though Joyce has probably actually never had proper sex ed, since she was home-schooled, not that sex-ed even covers masturbation usually.
apart from all the obvious reasons this is a bad idea, the borderline sexual harassment, the complete disregard of a friend’s emotions in favour of just calling them horny, the trying to disregard your own emotional repression by misguidedly fixing a friend’s sexual repression, the fact that if they get caught it’ll be all over campus that they’re totes gay together within thirty seconds and becky might actually kill dorothy…
does dorothy actually know that what works for one lady won’t necessarily work for another? I’m sure she knows this in theory but she’s definitely not presenting this to joyce sensitively – if the first method fails to achieve intended results this is going to end in tears, assuming joyce doesn’t just tell her to fuck off next strip
The “borderline sexual harrassment”, what? That’s not what this is. Don’t just throw terms like that around.
Also you’re really just assuming ALL of the worst-case scenarios. Talking about sex and masturbating, and it might just be that, is healthy if consensual. And nothing here implies that Joyce isn’t allowed to say no.
Dorothy came straight in and told Joyce what they were going to do without asking for consent first. That is a problem. Joyce and Dorothy do NOT have an equal power dynamic instead it’s based on a history of Dorothy deciding she knows what’s best and Joyce reluctantly following her lead. Joyce really might not feel she can say no. Joyce also has been hinted to have feeling for Dorothy. Associating Dorothy with her first orgasam could become a real regret for Joyce later on.
Shortly before this encounter, Joyce expressly yelled at Dorothy(and others) for non-stop sex talk. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that she would be uncomfortable with Dorothy barging in with further, more insistent sex talk.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/02-turning-saints-into-the-sea/slutshamey/
Dorothy becoming more insistent seems to be an extension of her not wanting to admit failure ever.
I don’t think that’s what this is.
I mean, yes, Dorothy definitely has a major issue with admitting failure. But I do think that there’s more going on here on Dorothy’s end than just that. This really does feel more like she’s trying to speedrun all the Mothering stuff that she feels that Joyce needs before she goes off to Yale, something that got kicked into high gear by her chat with Walky.
Still very, very wrong of her to be doing this, of course, just wanted to point out that there might be more complex stuff going on here.
While true, that also works against the “Dorothy has power over Joyce won’t feel she can say no” claim.
Nor really. it’s like the pharmacy trip in the morning
Joyce told all of them while still in bed to get out of her ass but despite saying she would back off Dorothy dragged Joyce to the pharmacy anyway. This is the same pattern Joyce has a blow out about how everyone needs to get off her business Dorothy just takes that to mean Joyce needs a moment to calm down before thinking of another way to persuade her to do what she wants. Dorothy’s keeps ignoring Joyce saying no and keeps coming back until she caves making Joyce feel like she doesn’t have a real choice.
You seem to be forgetting that the last interaction they had before this conversation had Joyce explicitly tell her she didn’t want to talk about this stuff
So tell me how exactly showing up to the room of someone Dorothy knows doesn’t want to talk about sexual stuff with her in order to talk about sexual stuff and try to pressure her to do something she’s not comfortable with (note she didn’t ask if Joyce wanted her to do this, she said “we’re doing this”) not sexual harassment?
Come on now, that’s not fair.
She’s also trying to steer Joyce away from a romantic interest she disapproves of.
I could reply to every reply to this comment, but I would just repeat my first comment. Respectfully, you are taking all of the worst-case-scenarios and assuming the worst intentions possible.
I fully concede that Dorothy’s intentions are good
Doesn’t change the fact that she’s willfully ignoring a stated boundary
Right?! I don’t know why everyone is assuming that Dorothy teaching Joyce how to masturbate is going to be, not only a practical lesson, but a public lesson. More than likely they will go do laundry, Dorothy will explain that Joyce has a clitoris, explain that masturbating feels good and relieves tension and is ok to do, explain that you don’t need to rely on another person for sexual fulfillment, tell Joyce she can do things like touch herself, use a toy, and maybe even *gasp* sit on one of these convenient washing machines!
I swear, it feels like everyone thinks Dorothy is about to shove Joyce down and assault her all because she said “I’m going to teach you to masturbate” instead of “May I please teach you to masturbate?”
I mean, it’d be harder to assume that if Dorothy hadn’t literally shown up at Joyce’s door in lingerie, holding a riding crop, and already started personally unbuttoning Joyce’s fly while whispering about cartoons in her ear. She’s sending out mixed signals, is all I’m saying.
No, it absolutely is sexual harassment, and in large part it’s because Joyce has already been hysterically insistent that Dorothy stop this behavior and Dorothy is ignoring that by matter-of-factly stating what they’re going to do. I truly believe that if Joyce can communicate this to Dorothy clearly enough that she’s not doing it, Dorothy will back off… but there’s also a lot of infantilization of Joyce that’s been happening, and there’s also a lot of Dorothy pushing at every boundary Joyce has to make her do stuff.
Unpopular take: Dorothy isn’t Joyce’s mom. She isn’t in charge of Joyce. It isn’t up to her to make sure Joyce takes her medications, or gets up in the morning, or sticks to a schedule. And Joyce has been fretting at those restrictions for several strips now. They’re both 18 and Joyce needs to make her own mistakes and learn from them. I’m not talking about Joe, I’m talking about literally everything else in life. It isn’t Dorothy’s responsibility to ensure Joyce is Optimized. But Dorothy has taken that on as if it is, and true to form, she’s determined to ‘win’ at it.
I’m not trying to trauma dump here, but I’ve had friends who did this to me. And guess what? I have bucketloads of CPTSD as a result. Friends who don’t respect your boundaries about your sex life are actively damaging! Some of them will assault you over a span of years as a result of grooming you for it and tell you it is helping you as a friend! And while I definitely don’t think that’s what Dorothy’s goal is here, I also don’t think the person who did that to me was like an evil kids’ cartoon villain plotting against me. I think he just… convinced himself that what he wanted was best for me, even as it actively hurt me.
The number of commenters who don’t see what a terrifying thing it is, to have someone you trust and love keep demanding stuff from you that you aren’t okay to give, what a violation of consent it is for someone to tell you, “No, you don’t know what you need, I know what you need,” is horrific to me, as someone who had that violation happen repeatedly to them.
And you know what, before anyone comes at me with “that’s projecting,” Joyce is also a survivor of sexualized violence that she has PTSD about, so nah, miss me with that.
I am very sorry that happened to you … but it is good that you can now recognise that and object to it. Of course it would have been better if you could have learned that in a non-traumatic way. We all should, but society is only beginning to learn to recognise the harms of such behaviour. We should be teaching proper boundaries and consent from kindergarten. That does happen sometimes, but it is not (IMO) enough, nor is it consistent. And there are people actively working to prevent such teaching.
I’ll stop before this turns into a political rant.
Yeah… Their “friendship” has been weird for a long time and I really want Joyce to push back and tell Dorothy to GTFO, but then maybe Google and learn stuff on her own at her own pace. Dorothy treats Joyce like a project, not a person.
…so it was about Roz after all
(also y’all need to chill out)
Roz And Joe I guess
There was definitely an art of Joyce sitting on a washing machine, at some point.
And Sarah on the adjacent one reading “Fifty Seven Varieties”.
The link was posted yesterday. It was an official Willis pin-up.
Can y’all stop being frickin’ weird and assuming the worst about Dorothy. This keeps happening for (most of the time) no goo reason.
I dunno, if someone barged into my room with the warcry of “I’ll make a Masturbator out of you” I would be somewhat concerned.
Tranquil as a forest
But on fire within
Once you find your [CENSORED]
You are sure to [15-second bleep]
I humbly request the rest of the song. XD
So did the rest of the viewers, but we nearly got taken off the air last time we played more than that clip.
We’re allowed to be uncomfortable with a thing.
Same.
Fair enough.
Yeah, I love Dorothy and I’m usually on her side… but how she’s been handling Joyce and Joe has been pretty gross, as far as her refusing to let Joyce make her own decisions about her own love life. Joyce has made some pretty big mistakes in the past, but that’s also how Joyce grows and develops. I’d say her experiences with Ethan and Jacob have had their affect on her. Shit, the fact that she isn’t immediately trying to force Joe to be her boyfriend, and is instead just… getting to know him, informs a lot of character development on Joyce’s side.
Dorothy’s comments in the last strip she had with Joyce were already pretty gross (aka “now that you’re on birth control don’t let yourself fuck Joe”) but now her insisting on teaching Joyce to masturbate… gross.
Dorothy is stomping all over Joyce’s boundaries, here, but maybe Joyce can establish some of her own by tomorrow’s strip.
not just about her love life…
I mean, you’re entitled to your wrong opinion. (I mean you specifically.)
Same. :*
Wow, you are just…super gross as a person.
I don’t think my stance is all that unreasonable, personally. All I’m saying is that Dorothy could probably be more caring and sensitive about this and at least put the weapon away. There’s honestly no justification for her to have a M202 FLASH pointed at Joyce’s fucking head, not to mention it’s gonna cause collateral damage if she fires it.
Typical, Taffy! You’re not seeing the big picture! If Dorothy lowered that gun for even a second, Joyce could activate her telekinesis and kill everyone in Reed Hall! And we know from Thanksgiving she doesn’t care about civilians, or Josh!!
Can you stop being frickin’ weird about Dorothy blowing past one of Joyce’s stated boundaries in a really pushy way for an extremely bad reason?
I wouldn’t be happy reading the comic you’re reading, either, tbh. But I’m not.
I don’t think it’s “frickin weird” for people to point out that Dorothy hasn’t asked consent for a sexual thing, and is doing it to try and keep Joyce from dating Joe. Those are literal facts in evidence, and without any stretching beyond that at all – this is a not-cool thing Dorothy is doing in my opinion and the opinion of others who clearly disagree with your take that those facts aren’t enough to form a judgment from.
Dorothy has her own issues and my compassion for them, but that doesn’t mean ignoring when she’s being a pushy jerk and boundary stomping.
I do think it’s weird to frame this as sexual harrassment and Dorothy as a predator who only does this to be right about Joe.
Because people like to assume Dorothy only has the worst intentions all the time.
Like, it’s totally sensible to think Dorothy is overstepping boundaries here, I think so, too. But that’s obviously not the take I’m talking about.
Dorothy is trying to force sex talk onto somebody who has previously expressed a clear no but continues to persist because she thinks Joyce is too horny to refuse her. Being best friends does not excuse Dorothy from the blame of sexual harassment. She certainly doesn’t think that’s what she’s doing but well intentions do not mean her actions can’t be inappropriate and harmful. You don’t have to think of Dorothy having the worst possible intentions to acknowledge this. And i dont think commenters do just that’s she’s very misguided and unwilling to acknowledge the problems with her own behaviour.
Ahahaha, I just noticed that the pink jersey-tank says “WELL-READ AF”
Top-tier apparel, Dorothy
The more you say it, the less I believe it.
See, on one hand, Dorothy teaching Joyce about this sort of thing would be helpful in the long run, when it comes to things like relieving stress and pain due to Joyce’s menstrual issues. On the other, she seems to be doing this mostly to spite Joe, as if the mere thought of Joyce pursuing a relationship with Joe couldn’t be anything other than a massive oversight caused by latent horniness.
I really don’t think so, and it’d odd to me that people read it this way. Because she never seemed that antagonistic to Joe before, besides probably just tolerating him because he’s Danny’s friend?
She became alarmed when Joyce started to hang out with him. Why would that be more about Joe than Joyce?
Because she still sees Joe as a womanizer who’s only using Joyce as just more “prey” to satisfy his rampant sexual urges, another “faceless conquest”. By teaching Joyce more about masturbation, she’s probably thinking that the post-nut clarity will make Joyce realize that being with Joe is a bad idea.
“To spite Joe” is probably the wrong way to phrase it, but Dorothy herself admits that this is to keep Joyce from considering Joe as a romantic prospect. It’s more about protecting Joyce from Joe than setting Joyce up for success generally.
Yeah, I will admit I could’ve phrased it a bit better, but Dorothy is very much anti-Joe in this scenario. Granted, she believes she’s doing it for the right reasons, but only because she doesn’t believe Joe has changed.
One of the things I don’t like about this arc.
We’re leaning pretty heavily on “wacky misunderstanding”.
I think there’s still plenty of time for joyce to say no/tell dorothy to fuck off like earlier if she’s not too flustered tho i assume dorothy wouldn’t put any unnecessary pressure
Wait, I just realized something about the washing clothes and teaching Joyce how to masturbate, that’s connected, right? Huh.
There’s a part of me that wonders how Joyce’s relationship with authority is playing into this. Obviously the shame of sexual desires is ingrained extremely deeply within her, but it has been interesting to see her act in such defiance of Dorothy’s (definitely misguided) repeated attempts to exert some authority over her. Notice how Dorothy isn’t approaching this like a concerned friend. She’s not sitting with Joyce and talking about WHY she’s concerned about Joe’s advances, she’s just barking demands. Now that Joyce is out of an environment where defiance is met with physical punishment, I wonder how much of this is her learning that she CAN set boundaries and grappling with the frustration of those boundaries not being acknowledged by people who are supposedly “better” than those who expected her to treat their words as absolute and infallible and punished her if she acted against them.
Thats the core of the biggest problem i have with Dorothy here. Joyce has expressed struggling with herself now that she doesn’t have a religious leader or an authoritarian parent to follow. People say Joyce can just say no to Dorothy talking about sex but she already has and Dorothy just comes back acting like the logical voice of reason..in other words an authority figure in Joyce’s mind who is better then her and whose judgment she’s supposed to be able to trust. It’s hard to set boundaries when your made to feel like an irrational child for doing so.
This^^^ She said “NO” in front of witnesses and at the top of her voice.
Absolutely. In this interaction, Jennifer’s comment of “Joyce has three moms here and you’re the mommest of all” rings especially true; not just because she’s the most overbearing, but because she’s exhibiting the same sort of authoritarian disregard of Joyce’s boundaries that Carol would.
Mother knows best
Have this comment in lieu of an upvote.
Reporter, twenty years later: “Joyce, you’re a famous cartoonist, and you’ve been friends with Dorothy Keener since college. Now, she is running for president. What can you tell us about her?”
Joyce: “Well, she is persistent. I remember our Freshman year when she taught me how to masturbate…”
The scandal that ultimately sunk the Keener campaign was referred to, thanks to an entirely uncreative news media, as “Mastur-gate.”
Once again Dorothy, a good thing for every single wrong reason under the sun. And I wouldn’t trust the post nut clarity to he effective. Didn’t keep me from spending nearly 2 years in shitty toxic relationship.
In all seriousness. Coulda said something like…” to prepare you for future relationship/marriage so you can help you know what you like and what feels good so you can help teach your SO.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not on the burn Dorothy keener at the stake. I think she’s doubled down cause as we saw in a previous post she got accepted to Yale. Which means she’s leaving everything and everyone and definitely wants people to be set up as best as SHE can make them. Unfortunately, that means disregarding her friends boundaries are a hard but necessary action by her logic.
That being said she’d make a great head of state with that line of logic. Maybe not a morally good one. But she has the ego and the “don’t back down even from a bad choice” mentality that’s required. Please please please let Joyce or someone else stand up to this though.
At some point, this Yale acceptance thing starts to feel like more of (and I hate this term 99% of the time) an excuse to not pay attention to what she’s doing, to me at least. Like, if every single thing gets written off as “Well, I’m being summoned away to this other school and won’t see people again, better double down”, she’s only gonna end up being way too intense and dissolving into brownsauce before the semester (or whatever the correct School Word is) is halfway over.
Hopefully that’s coherent enough, I’m like 75% sure it is.
She wants to be a hero, so she can’t leave until she can honestly say “Well, my work here is done.” Which puts her under a lot of time pressure to get things done.
https://tinyurl.com/46tsuhab
Maybe. I’m not so sure that Dorothy is transferring to Yale. I’m wondering if she is sure. Yes, we saw the letter. We saw her looking at it pensively. We don’t know why the look. It’s possible she is re-thinking her plan in light of the attachments she’s made with other people at IU.
It’s possible I’m way off base, too.
Am I the only person who thinks Joyce already knows how?
She not only knows how, she’s secretly the best at it in the cast. Nobody else even gets close by comparison.
I don’t know about the best, probably the most frantic. And her “post nut clarity” is instead an overwhelming sense of guilt and shame, like she is a wretch that deserves to be sent to hell.
She’s terrible at lying
if she does know, then why is she letting Dorothy lead her to the laundry room? It doesn’t add up…
The premises that are pushing Dorothy may be questionable, but this strip shows really well how much Joyce desperately needs someone to teach her about this matter. So…, Go Dorothy!
What struck me as interesting was it looks like Dorothy isn’t pissed at Roz calling her a prude as Roz calling her unelectable. This doesn’t look like Dorothy’s doing this to help Joyce so much as to prove to herself that she’s cool and sex-positive and progressive and whatever.
I dunno—if Dorothy were running for president how many of you would vote for her? I mean, if it were her vs Ted Cruz I would but her whole “I’m the enlightened one who knows what’s best for you” vibe is just so off-putting. I probably wouldn’t pick her in a primary, or at least I wouldn’t be donating to her campaign.
I like her more than any candidate I’ve actually been able to vote for in the presidential election. She probably wouldn’t be my pick in a primary though.
She will have ironed out a lot of this stuff by the time she’s 35.
I don’t think they are getting undressed for this guys. Dorothy is offering Joyce some sex ed, that’s all. And, yeah, she’s being very assertive, borderline pushy about it, because she knows Joyce well enough to know that Joyce would never ask for such lessons, and if asked directly would never have acknowledged she wanted them. She knew Joyce needed the plausible deniability of “Dorothy made me do it”. Generally speaking, assuming a person actually wants something they say they don’t want is a recipe for disaster, but it’s not like it’s never true, it’s just a good idea to assume it’s never true especially when it comes to sex. Enthusiastic consent always! In this case, it looks like Dorothy was right on the money. Joyce is saying “I never do that!” not “I don’t want to do this.” He face says “I’m embarrassed that I want this.”
It’s been their relationship’s dynamic for a while. Joyce kinda likes Dorothy taking care of her. She does find her overbearing at times, but she did appreciate Dorothy’s taking the initiative of signing her up for an art class and buying her supplies.
In this case, I suspect Dorothy’s plan is just to show Joyce a diagram identifying all the different parts, and give some tips (erogenous zones, lube, technique, toys) and all of that without sexual shame. And I think Joyce actually wants and needs to hear it. It’s stuff she should have learned from her mother or at school during sex ed, except she was homeschooled by her fundamentalist mother. I suspect that afterwards Joyce will wrestle with this new knowledge and finally give in to her urges and masturbate, and she will feel better and be grateful to Dorothy for the lesson. I really doubt that’ll make her reconsider Joe as a romantic prospect, though. She likes him for more than his body. They have both grown a lot since starting college, and that’s what Dorothy has failed to notice.
Dorothy also has her own issues to deal with. She needs to get over her need to control who Joyce gets to have a romantic or sexual relationship with, she needs to trust Joyce more to make her own decisions and follow through, and she needs to get over her rivalry with Roz. She needs to tell her friends what’s happening with Yale. It’s clearly eating her up inside. And she needs to admit to have limitations and not consider them moral failures. Her motivations for approaching Joyce with this are clouded by some of these issues.
Why did she tell her to go pee to avoid UTIs, then? Genuine question. Like I’m not suggesting she’s going to get her naked and touch her or anything, I’m just genuinely curious as to why so many people are suggesting that it’ll be totally theoretical when Dorothy herself said to prep physically.
Isn’t the point to pee _afterwards_ though?
There’s theories for peeing both before and afterwards.
Basically, a responsible adult should pretty much never stop peeing, just in case.
It actually doesn’t even have anything to do with sex, just always be peeing.
I mean come on, we learned this in kindergarten, people.
A.B.C., Always Be Peeing.
It’s like they’ve never even questioned why so many people have ABC/ABP tattooed on their wrists. :/
Some people didn’t grow up in the exact specific culture I did, and it shows.
They are going to wash their clothes. In the washroom. With the washing machines.
Joyce!, you’re eating your own face.. stop that.
I love how you can tell who’s had consent issues thrust on them by people violating their consent and who hasn’t in this comment section. And I mean I’m very happy some of y’all haven’t had that, but maybe have some empathy for the people who have and are seeing the red flags here.
Right? I’m especially concerned about the people who seem bound and determined to believe that Dorothy is not being pushy as hell about this–she shuts down Joyce refusing consent twice in this strip alone! (in before “BuT sHe DiDn’T lITeRaLlY sAy ‘No’ So MaYbE iT’s OkAy”)
Consent is supposed to be enthusiastic, people.
Oh, she’s being super pushy, and definitely needs to disappear down the hallway and be revealed to have been a hallucination Joyce was having for some reason.
Where did she refuse consent? She said she never touches herself. She didn’t say no. She didn’t say stop.
“I never do this!” is one of the hottest things somebody told me before they started doing a thing. I cannot elaborate on the details. But Joyce’s expressions here could easily be interpreted as excitement.
Consent isn’t a thing you assume until it is refused. Consent is a thing you assume ISN’T there until you get a “hell yes”.
This idea that she has to say “no” or it’s a “yes” is seriously messed up and is how a lot of sexual assault happens while the perpetrator SWEARS they aren’t a rapist.
It’s probably a good thing if most of us haven’t had that happen, I think? It’s probably better overall if the majority of people can’t put themselves into that mindset from personal experience. Feels like you’re framing that as a negative, somehow.
I don’t see that as the message that people should have that happen to them, it was the lack of empathy for the situation Dorothy is putting Joyce in. Some people refuse to belive that Dorothy’s behavior is problematic and act like coercion can’t be happening because Dorothy isn’t a villian character.
Nah, I get that. Something about the specific phrasing raised an eyebrow, is all.
I don’t see it the way you did, but I do see some issue with the initial claim (“you can tell who…”). There can be people who haven’t experienced something who show empathy, and there can be people who have experienced something who don’t show empathy. Like, say something upsetting happens to someone, and the response they get is just, “Oh, that’s no big deal,” and then they internalize that.
Haha, that last part of your post sure doesn’t sound familiar, haha, wouldn’t it be wild to live with that as a constant response to very normal levels of discomfort, haha?
I apologize for that! I definitely didn’t mean to sound like a jerk about that. Believe me, I would much rather defend people from ever having to feel that, ever. (I would rather NOT have been made to experience it, personally.)
I do think it’s really weird that people are pushing back on my comment instead of picking up on the weariness, but I mean… eh.
Like… perhaps as a multiple-time SA survivor, I might be exhausted by having to explain why this is a consent issue and this is not okay to people, but also feel like if I don’t, I’m not actively trying to make the world better. The problem is, that may not come across when I’m typing in a comment box. And also… yo, I’m tired of having to hear people say the things that people who actively denied anything happened to me said and try to hold their hands through understanding it, because this comment section is rife with it. If I dip into snark, that’s why.
Ah, that makes more sense to me now. Sorry, I’d picked up on some degree of exhaustion, but was wrong about the direction it was pointed in. Thank you for the clarification, turns out we’re in 100% agreement.
I love how you can tell that by a comment section on a webcomic, Mx Armchair Therapist.
Character persists with highly personal interaction, is told NOT to in the clearest possible language, then still persists, and commenter makes excuses for them. It does suggest at least inability to apply what they’ve learned about consent.
We get it, you have boundary issues. At least we’re safe from you.
I dunno if I’d go that far. RedCat doesn’t seem unsafe to me, just kinda in need of correction in some very important ideas.
Wow. Lovely. Take my report, asshole.
I mean, yeah, you can often tell things about people based on what they say and how they say it. I’ve got trouble parsing that kind of thing for autistic reasons, and even I’m aware of this very basic fact.
The lady doth protest too much, methinks
My thoughts as well.
I do be pressing X to doubt
who tf does dorothy think she is lol
like how many more people need to try to force joyce into a sexual act before this comic ends?
Just Joyce. With Joe.
She’s a white chick in a tank top who’s read a book before, that’s who. THE most qualified person to talk to anyone about anything with the authority of an expert, or so the legend goes.
“i’m too intellectual for this to be sexually inappropriate”. neil degrasse tyson vibes
Omg yes that’s Dorothy’s entire attitude in a nut shell.
One of the only things I’ve seen from that guy was him trying to “UM, ACKSHUALLY” a symbol from Frozen 2, something about snowflakes not looking like the thing that wasn’t a snowflake in the first place. (And if he really wanted to see a snowflake, he could look in a mirror)
Okay, this has been bugging me for 12 fucking hours. Joyce’s face in the last panel reminds me of something, but I can’t for the life of me remember what. It taste vaguely skeleton-adjacent, but that’s as clear as the picture gets.
Grim from Billy and Mandy maybe?
That’s the one with the skeleton and the annoying kid, right? I saw like one episode of it and didn’t need to see any other episodes afterward.
Nah, it’s not that one.
Yeah, that’s the one. It had the skeleton with a Jamaican accent for some reason, the annoying kid, and blonde not-Wednesday. The premise from the original short was actually kinda clever, but they dragged it out into an entire series.
I loved that as a kid.
Strangely enough I would say that seeing one episode doesn’t really give a good vibe of that show because it really changes from season to season.
Like it goes from a horror lite to one batch of episodes to pure comedy another batch to parodying the entire cartoon network catalog in another. Like the show is really inconsistent in its tone.
On of those horror movies with peoples’ mouths being sewed closed?
Is that A Thing? 😨 That’s honestly a really scary concept, on account of my deep-seated phobia of ever having to shut the fuck up.
Vibes.
How about when Homer Simpson ate that super sour candy?
Definitely not, I’m starting to associate a very puppet-scented mouth action with the face now.
Kermit frown?
Mary Shelley’s Frankenhole?
By the fucking Twelve, it’sFrankenhole, yes!
Great, I miss just one strip and it has to be the new Slipshine strip preamble. Damn!
i think it’s really interesting that everyone is taking joyce’s insistence that she has “never ever ever never ever” touched herself at face value, when it has been asserted or implied on multiple occasions that joyce… reads and looks at porn, has sexual fantasies, and regularly denies that she does those things?
“I’ve never ever EVER considered… [joe] kneading my face with his butt.”
“I’m not horny, all that stuff in my search history was for research!”
“I warn you, [amber’s fanfics] are very filthy.” (it is implied joyce did in fact shoot booster a link)
she knows what sex toys are, as sarah introduced her to what a vibrator is early in the first semester, and she has explicitly referenced dildos.
why are we taking her insistence here at face-value, and why are we using it as justification for dorothy ignoring her VERY CLEARLY SET boundaries? joyce doesn’t actually need anyone to teach her how to masturbate, and would benefit from being allowed to explore her own body on her own terms (something her insistence of having never done, to me, implies she has already at least begun doing) and to /choose/ to ask for help when she needs it from who she wants it from.
Are we taking it at face value, or are we just not talking about it right now? Is there a tangible difference?
You don’t need to directly touch, if you know about pressure and friction. It took me forever as a kid between working this out, and realizing quite some time later that that was actually masturbating.
“Just leave me the hell alone” was really a cry for help.
– thinks Dorothy
Right??
“Lol, you don’t jack off enough, but in a sexually liberated way, not in a gross way, and also in a denigrating way because it makes me see you as lesser, lmao”
If cranking one out is so important to Dorothy, why doesn’t she just go do it herself? She could at least be offering to compensate Joyce for the interaction, too. This is at least a $50 service she’s asking for, at the very low end.
I thought the going rate in this comic was a nickel?
forget biting her lip, she is eating the entire bottom half of her own face
Too much mustard ;3
I see Dorothy wearing a shirt from my school, where could I find one in a men’s large short sleeve?
I want the end product of this to be “I have done sexual things now. I am a sexually aware being with experience! … I am ready to face Joe. Thanks Dorothy!”
meanwhile, i am simping HARD for this cutie, the Philippine Tarsier aka Carlito syrichta which i just found out about in the taxidermy gallery of my local natural science museum and apparently can’t stop drawing now.
y’all take care out there <3
Oh.
It’s because she doesn’t want Joyce to get with Joe.
Well that changes everything around from yesterday.
Damn it, looks like we’re not getting 666 comments after all ;(
It looks like we’re not even going to break 600. Might not even beat yesterday’s 543 (so far). I’m a little disappointed.
…and Joyce eats her face.
Joyce does NOT need to be taught to masturbate. Most people can figure that out without assistance. JOYCE probably already knows how (she has seen porn), but is so seriously repressed that she can’t do it.
Joyce needs to be taught that IT IS OK TO masturbate.
This! Joyce isn’t a little kid, or an idiot. She has trauma because of people shoving a certain narrative down her throat her whole life, and instead of giving her her very clearly expressed desire for space to figure out what she wants herself, Dorothy has decided she needs more stuff shoved down her throat. She doesn’t give Joyce room to say “no.” She didn’t ask Joyce if Joyce wanted to talk about this, or do this. She just shows up, has her pee, and is like “we’re doing this.” Its way too aggressive.
Demystifying it is part of the the “making it okay” process, though, it must be said.
There probably should be a basic tutorial for everyone to learn, just to be safe
https://i.redd.it/ustvwpb2i94a1.jpg Tho i imagine these tend to happen more with guys accidentally hurting themselves
So Dorothy *did* choose her current outfit deliberately, and it looks like it’s having the intended effect. That might be the most thought out part of this incredibly terrible plan.
Yeah, so, people in this comment section went from calling Dorothy a predator to insinuating I am one because I don’t agree that Dorothy is a fucking monster. Y’all need to calm the fuck down and stop being toxic. I’m out.
Quick Dorothy, change the subject! Can’t you see that Joyce’s embarrassment is so acute that it’s collapsing into a singularity?! In moments her entire face will have imploded inward!
DC Editorial: “No one in the DC Universe masturbates!”
Neil Gaiman: “That explains a lot.”