It’s not ‘cheating’ to realize you’re not happy in your current relationship, can find a better match, and decide to be upfront about breaking up with her. The kiss was as much about reassuring Joyce that this was his mutual interest in her as anything else. “Cheating” would be staying with Raidah while deciding to romance Joyce. He and Raidah aren’t married, aren’t even engaged. This is college, and figuring out that your ‘first love’ isn’t your one and only is part of the deal.
You can trash on Joyce for this sitch if you want, but Jacob’s being as stand-up as it really is feasible to be in his position.
Sarah dropped that idea when she realised she was objectifying Jacob (after he talked about how people objectified him a lot) and only she would be interested in a fling/casual thing, while Jacob is a more committed type of person. Then shifted gears on getting Joyce together with him instead.
Willis has been more than willing for his chars to be assholes acting in dumb, self-serving, short-sighted manners before, and invalidating a few weeks of strips doesn’t seem like his style.
More likely the Joyce/Jacob relationship will crash and burn horribly because he’s focused on a serious relationship and she is not remotely emotionally ready for a serious relationship.
She sure as heck originally thought she was, though, which should make things interesting. Jury’s still out on whether she still thinks that way after the whole Ethan debacle, but either way she’s in for some serious trial-and-error learning in the near future.
I mean yes he is doing that, but he also genuinely likes joyce and hanging out with her. I have never gotten the impression that he liked Raidah in the slightest, just that he thought dating her would get him bro points from his brother.
Did you really have that impression before this storyline?
It always seemed to me that he liked her. He was always happy to see her, he never hinted at trouble with her. We didn’t see much of them alone together, but when we did he seemed fine with it. She seemed manipulative at times, but he didn’t seem aware of it.
I see your crash and burn, and raise you “Joyce is consciously trying her best and has a minor stress breakdown trying to be mature all the time, every time to be worthy.”
I suspect the crash and burn will be tied more directly to the way it started. Possibly immediately amid a confrontation with Raidah, more likely later in a way I don’t foresee yet. (Joyce being jealous and worrying about someone doing to her what she did to Raidah? Dorothy planted that seed.)
I’m thinking it’ll crash and burn when Jacob finds another flirty, pretty, quirky girl to get close to. It’d just be like, the perfect bow on top. The icing on the cake
I mean, on the Joyce scale sitting together in a booth is at least second base, and sharing a pizza is probably third (she’ll be informing Harrison’s wife of his impropriety promptly), so might as well run for home.
You know, I wasn’t going to tell this story in the comments section, but certain comments below have changed my mind.
Ahem.
Many years ago now, I was in a relationship with a woman. Let’s call her Raidah.
It wasn’t a good relationship, but it was my senior year of college, so I let things slide until graduation because I didn’t want to rock the boat. Raidah was not yet graduating, being younger than me, and I’d tried to subtly suggest that maybe we should call it quits after grad to “free her up” for other options since I wouldn’t be around.
Raidah did not take the hints and was getting ready for long-distance.
ALSO – Raidah had purchased a ticket to an Anime con that summer that I would also be attending and wanted to share a hotel with me and another female friend of ours.
Let’s call her Jacob.
I’d been attracted to Jacob for a while, but the timing had never worked out – one of us was always dating someone else.
SO, we all go to this Anime con where we’re sharing a hotel room. And there’s a J-rock dance. Raidah isn’t interested, but Jacob and I are, so we both go.
And… things begin to crackle. Very seriously. We very nearly kiss, but don’t.
And then we get to go back and sleep chastely in a hotel room with Raidah.
After the Con, we drop Raidah off and then drive an hour back to where Jacob lives – I live several more hours further on, but intend to crash on Jacob’s couch and make the drive in the morning.
During that hour drive, Jacob and I talk around the subject but not exactly on it. I express some frustration that Raidah still wants to be a couple when I wanted to break up amicably before the Con. I also didn’t want to dump her at the con, or immediately thereafter, as I didn’t want to ruin her fun.
Jacob is like “so you are definitely breaking up with her?”
And I’m like “Oh yes. I hate to do it over the phone or IM, but I won’t have another option once I get home” – due to the several hours apart thing.
Jacob considers this.
The conversation moves on for a bit. Then, as we’re nearing Jacob’s place, Jacob asks me out to dinner. Not just food – a date. She specifies this. Date.
I say “yes.”
We go out to dinner. We talk. Some long-standing feelings get confessed. Not unlike some of the things Joyce said to Jacob, actually, except without Harrison there.
And then we head back to Jacob’s apartment.
I do not spend the night on the couch.
I spend the night having sex with Jacob. It is, in fact, the best sex I (at that point in my life) have ever experienced. It is incredible, earth shattering, light-shining-in-my-soul sex.
The next day, after some morning hanky-panky, we go out for brunch, talk some more, and then I give her a kiss and head home.
Once home, I break up with Raidah.
A week later, which was as soon as I could manage, I drove back to see Jacob again.
… and that’s the story of how my wife and I started dating.
So yeah, I cheated on my girlfriend with the love of my life. Was it bad of me? Yeah. Did it matter in the long run? Not one fucking bit.
And before anyone suggests I don’t know what it feels like to be cheated on – yes. Yes I do. I got cheated on really badly the year prior to all this by a previous partner. It sucks, but love is messy sometimes. People get hurt. Shit happens.
ANYWAY… I will go back to celebrating the beautiful kiss between Jacob and Joyce now. ^^
First, because I do think it is seriously important to note and I don’t want it to get in the way of further points I wish to make…
DAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! *squees and pinches cheeks*
*cough*
But, uh, on topic…
Setting aside the whole “being an ass to Raidah” point, which is a point that should be kept in mind, because this Jacob is being an ass, my thing is more about Joyce.
Joyce isn’t your Joyce. This Joyce just doesn’t actually seem ready for a serious relationship. She’s grown a great deal, no question, but she still has that fairytale notion of what dating and romance is like. Just because you make shit chaste doesn’t remove the difficult, ugly complications that come from two people getting together.
And this Jacob has only known this Joyce for, what, a couple weeks? There’s not exactly a long-term relationship here. This relationship just seems destined for rocky shores, if not a complete shipwreck.
It’s actually more of a warning signal if Jacob has been longer with Raidah, and one improvised chaotic encounter with Joyce pushes a whole lot more buttons for him than what he has with Raidah. It does not mean that Joyce is the right choice as much as it means Raidah may have been the wrong choice.
That’s actually a point in Joy/cob’s favor.
Willis can’t reasonably write this comic until they get to the summer after their senior year – he isn’t likely to live to be 300+ years old. Nor can fans be reasonably expected to wait that long.
As such, a story such as mine would have to be shortened into a much smaller timescale to work in a webcomic.
I was thinking more in terms of character arcs. In fiction, character development practically dictates that things like cheating come back to bite the characters so they can learn. It’s part of character growth – mistakes come home to roost (or at least the big ones do, and this plot’s been part of several storylines). Real people can learn and grow (or not) without things like that. Like you said, you recognize it was a bad thing to do but it didn’t end up mattering in the long run of your life. Fictional characters don’t tend to have that because they only exist inasmuch as the author writes them.
Fictional characters can also learn and grow without things like that. Joyce also recognized that she did a bad thing and admitted as much to Jacob – which is why he forgave her.
Just because a trope exists doesn’t mean a writer needs to use it.
That said, I have no idea what Willis is planning. Whatever he does, I’m sure it will be interesting.
No she did not. She dismissed it as an ‘oopsie doodle’ as a result of being drunk on baby and immediately started asserting Jacob liked her. She did offer to come clean to Harrison, but that’s not the same as recognizing wrong doing.
Sometimes fictional characters can learn without things biting them in the ass, but it usually comes with some sort of guilt (which Joyce hasn’t indicated she’s feeling), after some sort of parallel experience, or development along those lines. Authors don’t usually call out situations like this so much if they’re not going to come back around later.
^^ Thank you for the heartfelt DAW, Wraithy2773! ^^
I will agree on that point – my story had a LOT of history behind it, whereas Joyce has known Jacob for a fairly short time.
My wife and I actually met my Freshman year, but only were only acquaintances within the same friend group. Also, for the first two years I knew her, I only saw her date men. Actually, come to think of it, her dating back then ran very Jacob-esque – “good on paper” serious boyfriend Honor Society types.
I, meanwhile, dated (or failed to date, see recent BiAngst related story) all around my anime club, picking up and losing boyfriends and girlfriends and affecting a mildly ditsy cheerful affect. Because I didn’t want to be the girl no one even noticed like I was all through highschool. But I digress.
My wife and I didn’t really connect until Junior year when we bonded over our mutual love of a specific anime with a LOT of yuri content. And she FINALLY dated a girl, causing me to learn that she was, indeed, also bi. Of course, by dating said girl, she was also off the table. And that was fine – she was rapidly becoming my best friend. We hung out together a lot. It was a good time.
And then I started dating my Raidah, who (unlike the my wife-Jacob comparison) was nothing at all like Raidah. She was fun… but things just never felt right. But, like I said above, I didn’t want to rock the boat.
And, at around the same time, my wife broke up with her girlfriend and went back to dating Honor Society guys.
Except, since we were now best friends, my future wife complained to me about how bored she was with “that sort of person”. I complained about my girlfriend being clingy and jealous. And we hung out watching anime, went out to dinners, and complained about our love-lives over drinks.
Meaning that, when we hooked up the summer after my graduation, my future wife and I had years of friendship and closeness to draw upon. And, on top of all that friendship and trust, we turned out to be very physically compatible.
Obviously Joyce and Jacob don’t have that to draw upon, having only just met a few weeks back their time. For that, we have to wait and see. Still, since I very much relate to these two, I do ship this. A LOT.
The other distinction here is that your Jacob (who is actually really more like your Joyce – with you being Jacob) didn’t decide prior to any signs of trouble in your relationship that she was going to get you two to break up.
I can certainly see why you relate to Joyce/Jacob, but I don’t think the parallels are really that close – especially the most problematic parts of this arc.
Ironically, you phrased it well as a ratio or a fraction, but terribly as a baseball batting statistic : .666 , or “batting six hundred sixty-six.”
A number Joyce may have problems with for other reasons.
FWIW, in his head, he’s already done so. That said, yeah: It might have been appropriate to do these things in a different order. Maybe also to formally ask Joyce’s permission first too (even though her likely answer would have been’yes please’)!
Joyce’s answer definitely would not have been “yes please”. Her reaction when overwhelmed is, though. Jacob was using a shortcut here, but whether he can do the distance with who Joyce is and how long it will take to have her mind catch up with her desires is a different question.
Well, the typical internet meter (when usage is meter) is measured in bytes (or more likely gigabytes) per month. Google sez 190 gigabytes per month. Since we want metric, that converts to (on average) 190 GB / 2.628e+6 s. So a single internet meter shows a bandwidth of about 72.298 KB/s and 20 of those would give us 1.446 MB/s. That seems like about how much bandwidth BBCC isn’t willing to spend on this.
I’m…. not entirely sure how to convert from bits to length. It’s a bit like trying to figure out how to convert pounds to kg, I guess. Damn imperial system!
Meter – 1. a device that measures something (thermometer, electric meter, etc); 2. (in poetry/verse) a stressed and unstressed pattern of syllables (iambic pentameter, etc).
Metre – a unit of measurement.
Not sure if that helps? Maybe BBCC is being poetic and they don’t give 1.446 MB/s worth of hoots?
Well, here’s the interesting part: There are several ways to calculate this!
“Tape” data recording converts 1 KB of data into about 3.1 mm of data tape, so with your numbers, an “internet meter” is approximately 224 mm, leaving 20 Internet meters as approximately 4 metres.
Punch-card data was even less efficient, and was the earliest form of data storage that still carried content that was used to initialize proto-Internet access; these converted a “key” of about a KB (give or take, depending on what level of access you needed) into a 5.45 cm punch card. By this metric, 1 Internet meter is approximately 394.02 cm, or 3.9402 m, leaving this as a 78.804 metre radius.
Meanwhile, micro SD cards are 165 cubic millimeters and can store over a TB of data.
Assume we fill a standard twenty-foot-equivalent shipping container with 1TB micro SD’s, allowing half the volume for packing material and air, and we then stick this container on the back of a truck and drive it from Cape Town, South Africa, to Omsukchan, Siberia. Google Maps says this trip will cover 23,222 km and take 332 hours in no traffic. The route will cross several less-than-peaceful international borders, including Sudan/South Sudan, Egypt/Israel, Israel/Lebanon, Lebanon/Syria, Syria/Turkey, and Georgia/Russia, so it’s safe to say there will be traffic and significant delays. Assuming that this increases the time to 400 hours, and that we drive 8 hours a day, we get to Siberia with our shipment of micro SD cards after 50 days.
This is equivalent to a bandwidth of a bit over 23 TB/s, or over 315 million Internet Meters.
…..
I’m starting to question the usefulness of both this unit of calculation and the calculations I just performed.
I dunno, I thought yesterdays comments of “Raidah, who acts like she’s a super adult and thinks that’s how she’s supposed to act wearing very adult clothes to meet her boyfriends family members means she’s actually a social climber who wants to use jacobs brothers supposed status (even though it’s confirmed that several of her friends parents own law firms, she has no need to suck up to some random lawyer) and also her relationship with Jacob is a sham to get at his brother.” was way weirder than todays, which all seem to be either “yay my ship sailed” or “God damn it Jacob break up with her before you make out with other people”
No I’m saying today’s don’t seem weird at all, except one dude in the comments saying relationships aren’t real if there’s no sex but that’s just one in a sea of way more normal comments.
What really bothers me is the question of whether Jacob is doing this because he’s realized he is interested, or because he’s realized his brother would approve.
Ooof, that’s a good point, Jamie. I was worried about that when Harrison said he was proud of Jacob and stuff earlier, but I kind of forgot all about it in the excitement of DAT KISS… I really do think Jacob likes her as a person, given the previous few weeks (real time, I guess, not sure how long comic time) of interactions and even flirting, but unfortunately, banter and even light flirting don’t necessarily mean you’re romantically interested in someone – sometimes they can be just for fun. Sometimes you don’t even realize you’re doing it, if you have good social chemistry with someone. Joyce seems to have an actual crush on him, but while he could totally reciprocate that, he could also be totally leaping at what appears to be a pre-vetted path to brotherly approval… possibly without even consciously realizing that’s what he’s doing. :/
Honestly I think the start of a relationship isn’t as important as the way they go together to a hopeful happy ending for both. I think the start with Raidah was probably “better” as in nobody got cheated on or hurt or lied to or anything like that but if you look at their way as a couple, then you know Raidah never felt “he’s the one I want to spend the rest of my life with-love” but more like “he is the best option to further my career-guy” while Jacob seemed to have felt he was missing something out of this relationship that keeps him not as happy as he thought he would be once he got the “checklist-girlfriend” to impress his big brother.
So while the start of Jacob and Joyce was messy I hope their way together as a couple will be a very happy and loving one.
EEEEEEEE!!!!
Tomorrow, of course, Jacob or Joyce will look up from their kiss and make immediate eye contact with Raidah, but today is the day to EEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
Well, I can’t say I am displeased by him going to break up with Raidah. I think she deserves to know what is going on but on the other hand I’m not sure how i feel about this kiss. But how can this breakup possibly go?
Oh shit, I didn’t think Dumbing of Age was coming to a close so soon. After Willis gets all the imminent Slipshine money this is obviously the setup for he’ll be able to comfortably retire, no doubt!
Yeah, I agree. I do feel bad for Raidah, but people can and do realize that they’re in relationships that are not fulfilling, even if the other person does love them. It’s a terrible situation, because the dumpee really hasn’t done anything wrong, but keeping the couple together in such circumstances is ultimately a bad idea because if one party doesn’t love the other, ultimately it’s either going to lead to cheating or resentment/bitterness.
This was one of the hardest lessons I ever had to learn in life. You might love somebody (and they might even love you in return, in a fashion), yet the two of you would still be a terrible couple together.
Anyway, the big question now is… Does Jacob actually find himself attracted to Joyce? (We didn’t hear his answer after Joyce said how she feels about him, after all.) Or is he doing this out of a sense of obligation (because boundaries were crossed) after realizing that he doesn’t love Raidah and was only with her because he felt he had standards to live up to? (He might be falling into the same trap here again, dating Joyce because his brother approves. He definitely seems to enjoy Joyce’s company more, but is that enough to really translate into relationship material?)
This was one of the hardest lessons I ever had to learn in life. You might love somebody (and they might even love you in return, in a fashion), yet the two of you would still be a terrible couple together.
Get a grip! No fucking in university means J and R had at best a platonic relationship with first-right-of-refusal, maaaaaybe. Imho, Jake is totally up for grabs, no apology necessary.
Whoa, I don’t like Raidah and Ivm excited about this development, but… You mean that if there isn’t sex in a relationship (yet), it somehow doesn’t count as a relationship? This asexual-spectrum girl has some Strong Opinions on that subject.
In addition to what Happilychaotic said, I’m not sure where “no fucking in university” came from. He’s talked about not wanted casual sex and not wanted to be just a sex object, but he’s never said anything I can find about actually not having sex.
We were never shown how much or how little physicality Jacob and Raidah had. There was one time he suggested messing around and she demurred, reminding him to study.
I can well imagine Jacob never kissed Raidah like he’s kissing Joyce, but we don’t know, and that part of the story may never be backfilled for us.
*coughs in trauma that lead to sex repulsion and has been in a v happy and legitimate relationship for 3+ years*
Also, you do realize that joyce isnt going to be having sex with Jacob either, right? He’s holding off on sex and Joyce…that’s not gonna be on the table for her until after a few years and plenty of therapy. Even without the deep seeded Christian shame, she’s still traumatized by Ryan. That kind of thing sorta changes sex for you
I know, right? Now I don’t need to pick a restaurant or a present or find a movie or something else to do or anything. I can stay home and rewatch the Mae Young Classic or a new Bob’s Burgers episode or finish my reread of Mossflower or *gets dragged off before I can finish my possibilities*
I can’t argue that what Joyce did wasn’t underhanded and fairly stupid, BUT Jacob and Raidah weren’t exactly a love story for the ages. With the fallout from the impending breakup and guilt about the shenanigans, I doubt this ship is going to have smooth sailing anytime soon.
On one hand i ship it but ON THE OTHER HAND not only is this entire situation Mildly Fucked, but Joyce still have a Lot of issues with sexual things and it’s going to be interesting how she handles those urges and if she has those same issues with not-quite-sexual stuff like kissing so???
I really hope it’ll go well but i’m also not necessarily sure that it will.
Jacob doesn’t want casual sex and doesn’t want to be just a sex object. That doesn’t translate to doesn’t want to fuck.
Joyce on the other hand desperately wants to and is also terrified and guilty about it. That part will be interesting.
She was the one who was pleased she could brag her daughter isn’t racist after she met Sarah (stated in front of Sarah)… I suspect there’s a “good ol’ Southern racist grandma” (that’s a proper trope right?) and Carol thinks she’s not racist but is overflowing with various institutionalised racism issues she has never examined and doesn’t even realise are weird and racist.
I think she’s not racist to her neighbors but would be racist if there is a chance of biracial grandchildren. The “okay for others, but not MINE” is also a strong philosophy.
Racism as a more coarse form of tribalism is ingrained. Communities self-segregate comparatively naturally. People with a decent upbringing are ashamed when their racism triggers. The decisive thing is whether, when you have to make the choice, shame or racism will win. If you have to choose frequently, at one point of time one of the two will be a distinct memory at best. Carol and Hank have kept an environment where thinking about this choice is rarely needed. I have the impression that getting confronted with it would not strengthen their relationship.
I’ll put 10 on John. He’s probably got a “white man’s burden” thing going from his mission work which he believes makes him somehow enlightend that really incredibly twisted. (If that makes sense.)
I think Carol was the one who was excited to tell the entire neighborhood that her daughter wasn’t racist upon discovery that she had made “An *African-American* friend!”, so I’d put her more in the deluding-herself racist column.
There’s a word for people who are racist by default rather than malice. It’s racist.
But good news! Despite how people treat the word when called on it, racism is not with you forever! All you have to do is accept that you’re a human who can have flaws and put conscious effort into being better. Not for an expectation of reward but just to not be cruel.
Yup, that’s all. Just stop being racist. Aaaaaaany day now…
The problem is, people’s worldviews are REALLY robust and most people don’t want to think of themselves as bigots of any flavour. Therefore they reject the concept that they may have unintentionally bought into things like institutionalised racism and have various beliefs that need to be challenged as a personal attack on themselves as individuals. ‘Swhy they get crazy-defensive and angry at the idea of white privilege…
Apparently people whose worldviews include the concept “people’s understanding of the world is based on their own experiences, and those are not universal, nor objective fact” are in a minority.
The word is the same, but there’s still a broad spectrum from
“absorbed some stereotypes” to “burning crosses on the lawn” and where you are on that spectrum matters.
Aw, no! Joss is good people. Maybe this’ll be the development that introduces the mystery brother whose name I don’t remember? Maybe he’s in an interracial and interfaith relationship too. Ooooh, what if he’s married to a Muslim woman?! That would absolutely have ostracized him from his family.
…. okay.
I mean, there’s still a question on how much this is motivated by Jacob’s desire for his brother’s approval.
And Joyce is definitely gonna have a moral panic when she realizes the *fuckedness* of the situation.
And then there’s Raidah,
Who can definitely hold a grudge.
I don’t think Joyce sees any moral problem with ‘stealing’ someones boyfriend? She’s more “well obviously the TRUE love wins out and the other person was just the person in romantic comedies and hallmark movies that the protagonist starts out with but doesn’t appreciate them” type.
I think Jacob is the one who is going to have the moral issues with this, especially when he examines why he did it and why he couldn’t do it better.
Agree. Joyce isn’t equipped to be a decent person about this. But I kinda hope that seeing Raidah’s reaction will trigger the things she is equipped with.
I’m not sure I see this relationship lasting more than one strip, to be honest.
I mean, as messed up as Joyces actions are towards ignoring his boundaries, she isn’t the one who cheated on Raidah, I think her moral issue is how she treated the guy she likes, Jacob is the one who cheated on someone.
If Raidah’s reaction does anything to Joyce, I think the it’d be making her remember the advice she got last time this storyline came up (I think it was Dorothy who said it?) that a guy who so easily leaves his girlfriend may not be the best choice to date. I’d hope Jacob wouldn’t make this fuck up twice but I wouldn’t be surprised if Joyce got it into her head to be anxious that since he cheated with her, he may cheat on her.
If Jacob does now go and break up with Raidah (which I certainly hope he does), there is absolutely nothing “indecent” about Jacob and Joyce getting together. Joyce does not need to hold off a relationship with Jacob to be a decent person after a break-up (before is certainly a different story). Raidah has a right to honesty, but not to Jacob.
Ok, as long as Jacob breaks up with Raidah now, that’s pretty good. Not perfect behavior but I don’t expect that.
I am interested to see where this goes from a meta standpoint, how the story will develop around it. I like this pairing but I am paranoid drama will happen because story.
I know, right? It’s why these comments confuse the balls out of me half the time. If all the characters made smart choices and nobody was ever bad… then what the hell would it be about?
I was more saying “I sometimes see relationships broken up in fiction seemingly just to create drama” and “I like this one and don’t think it is too flawed from the outset like most others”
What I don’t like about this arc – assuming this is a resolution, which I’m not – is that this the wrong lesson for Joyce to learn for her character growth. The whole arc has been framed as Joyce being in the wrong, being guided by her weird ideas of romance learned from Christian rom-coms and the narrative currently appears to be saying “Yeah, go with that, those will work.”
That’s not a good thing for Joyce’s overall character arc. She’s supposed to be growing away from those origins, not reinforcing them.
GodDAMMIT Jacob. You know, you know, YOU KNOW you need to do the breaking up before that and Raidah is RIGHT OVER THERE. I don’t care how well it punctuates your point. But no, you have to go ahead and cross into full-blown asshole.
Sadly, Jacob’s fatal flaw, at least in the Walkyverse, was always poor impulse control. I suspect he’ll realize how poor a decision he just made by doing things out of order pretty quick.
It’s not like he’s fucking Joyce right there in the lobby. It’s a kiss. It’s a big deal for Joyce, but for Jacob it’s mostly about pushing into “point of no return” territory.
Let me assure you that a kiss on the lips with romantic intent on a person other than the person you are in a relationship with is a big deal (unless you have a mutually-agreed open relationship). it’s cheating, plain and simple. And it’s so incredibly unnecessary, as just waiting 5 minutes to actually do what he said and break up with Raidah first would’ve made it fine (not great, but fine).
It’s incredibly disrespectful to both Raidah (who hasn’t done anything wrong to Jacob) AND to Joyce.
I agree with the Point of No Return argument. As much as possible in a 4 panel comic where every sentence is expensive, Jacob dropped hints he was feeling unhappy with his relationship with Raidah–but it was still lingering. I can imagine he’s picturing himself talking himself out of it and lingering months more, especially if Raidah makes a persuasive argument for it. (as lawyers and future lawyers do).
Like Joyce is saying sitting in a booth might be shady, but it’s not dealbreaking bad. So Jacob does something dealbreaking bad to mentally seal it to himself that he really is serious about this. He can (and should) keep this in his back pocket so as. Ot to needlessly hurt Raidah, but having that in his pocket will remind him of the choice he made. And if Raidah somehow holds tight and won’t easily accept the breakup, he can always drop that as the nuclear option.
Subverted would be if Raidah breaks up with him first, or easily accepts it because she also wasn’t very satisfied. More straight is finding out about Joyce either directly or by implication if they start dating suspiciously soon after the breakup and harbors some resentment. Especially after how she dismissed Joyce as a little girl who could never, ever pull this off. Pulling even this much off Completely “by accident” on unconscious whims still counts! Unconsciouses have a certain cunning.
Yeah, I can see Jacob thinking “Oh shit, what if Raidah agrees that today wasn’t really being unfaithful and we can work things out? I don’t want to work things out with her!”
Arguably that’s a pretty poor reason to snog somebody you know really likes you though, even if you do also like them and reckon you could be happy with them.
Honestly, I don’t think the kiss at this point matters. Assuming he does actually go over and break up. Technically, I guess it’s cheating – but then technically he’s been over that line all morning so what’s one step further.
The real harm of cheating comes from the hiding and the lying and the suspicion and all that comes with that. A quick kiss before breaking up doesn’t do anything more than the break up itself does.
Unless of course Raidah sees it and that’s at least partly because she wouldn’t know it was the first kiss and that he was coming to break up with her.
Haha yeah. Dumping by sms is SO 2012. Ghosting significant others is the new hotness. Actually even that is fading. Ghosting EMPLOYERS is the new Go Big (And) Or Go Home.
PS – don’t ghost anybody it’s dehumanizing to them and you.
Sarah sent Joyce to break them up. This is a birthday present to her. Sure, it’ll be bittersweet when she sees them together but she’ll get to remember she hurt Raidah.
In one corner, we have Joyce’s thirst finally resulting in a tall drink of water straight to the mouth. In the other corner, we have a very explicit and clear-cut case of cheating. Quite what the result will be, I couldn’t even hope to guess.
On one hand, yay Jacob for realising this was unfair to Raidah and needing to break up, on the other other, bad Jacob! Kiss Joyce AFTER you have broken up with Raidah! Not before!
Um, how much do you know about modern CPU design? The relevant search phrase is “speculative execution” and basically CPUs do things very much out of order and then reconcile it later.
It may be worth noting that speculative execution has caused some really nasty security bugs that have come to light recently.
3-year time skip, during which two characters have died, one has changed personalities almost completely, one got absurdly hot out of nowhere, and everyone has sweet new haircuts.
Nah, they haven’t made it upstairs, yet. She’s probably fairly clean, at this point in the day. Now, if we check back in a few in-story hours, she might be something of a mess. If one of us catches my drift, because I’m not sure I know where I’m going with that.
I’d say at least buy her dinner before smoochin’ but I’m pretty sure Jacob paid for her/everybody’s brunch so…
Now to be serious, yeah Jacob should probably have broken up with Raidah before kissing Joyce. I get that he probably realized that Joyce and him are probably more compatible despite the fucked-up-ness of how this all began and he just kissed her on impulse but still. On the other hand, Raidah is a completely unlikable person so…
YAAASSSSS i love this dumpster fire!! Goody two shoes jakes doing what he wants! Radiah learns you can’t brush off everyone just because they don’t go to your specific goals! Joyce does something bad and adventurous! Character growth! This is my favorite ship❤️❤️❤️
She needs to get away with some stuff while spiraling out of control. I think Willis is honestly bringing back the Dark/Nega/Anti Joyce from Roomies n such, but doing it more realistically. So she needs to get away with just enough to start going, “Yeah no morality is crap” THEN have it all start coming down around her
Toe Dad and Asshole McGee strike her and others, she finds out that somebody who is willing to break up that fast over that shit may be willing to do it again, she alienates herself from her friends due to pulling a Toby McQuire Venom Spiderman, and does some serious soul searching
I saw this coming. Joyce has impenetrable plot armour on Mary Sue levels. Willis did write good believable characters but that entire plot arc reeks of bad fanfiction.
First rule of time travel: Don’t spoil internet comic strips, because it might influence the author to change the ending. And then you’ll just look foolish when you get back to your home timeline.
There’s a little footnote on it that says “Do not, under any circumstances, sleep with Hitler. We have no idea what might happen, but our top brains are pretty sure it’ll have catastrophic results.”
I think that regardless of how Raidah reacts, Joyce and Jacob will still become a couple and the core cast will be annoyed for three strips before getting over it because Joyce.
Harrison: You must be Jacob’s new girlfriend.
Joyce: *immediately lies, then doubles down, then (accidentally or no, doesn’t matter) drags Jacob into it due to his fear of disappointing his brother*
Jacob could very easily have called out Joyce’s lie when he first found out. He could have let Joyce come clean when she offered to do so instead of carrying on with the lie. He could have not kissed her before breaking up with Raidah.
Saying this is mostly Joyce’s fault? Fair, I’d say. Suggesting Jacob has no responsibility for his actions and decisions here, and doesn’t carry at least part of the blame? I’m a bit more skeptical.
You don’t think Raidah will do something? This is the person who still harasses and gives shit to Sarah over something she did to a friend for her own safety. Just because there’s no consequences happening immediately right now doesn’t there won’t be later.
Yes, yes, cheating is always the woman’s fault, even if the guy’s the one in the relationship AND initiating the kiss, blah blah burn the witch. I mean bongo.
Now now, we haven’t seen how the relationship plays out. My money is on another “Joyce” coming along and our Joyce suddenly finding herself in raidah’s shoes
Honestly after the last conversation Raidah, Joyce, and Jacob had together… I think Jacob is doing this because that’s exactly how he sees Raidah got together. She did nothing but belittle and infantize his friend as well as belittle him for not being his brother.
Next comic, one of Raidah’s friends sees them kiss or something, and Raidah finds out in the short time span before Jacob officially breaks up with her.
Because on one hand I really ship Jacob and Joyce and want them to be a couple but on the other hand there needs to be some consequences for their actions here. This can’t go perfectly.
It so time. These people are young, they’re at university, away from home. No sex between Raidah and Jacob means no passion, so what’s really going on there? Can you really consider that a relationship? Obvs, there’s chemistry all over the place between J and J. As my moniker implies, I totally ship jake and Joyce. Just go for it.
No sex means…no sex. At this point Joyce isn’t likely to be having sex with Jacob either. In fact fairly tame making out might be enough to give her problems given how she was raised.
See, I ship them too, but I don’t make up weird bullshit rules on what counts as a relationship or not in order to justify it.
There is no question that Jacob and Raidah were in a relationship. Similarly, Jason and Sal were not in a relationship. Jacob specifically respected Joyce upon meeting her because she wasn’t having sex. Specifically. Lack of sex is the foundation of their friendship.
So yeah. Chemistry they have. Your bullshit rules about marking people as property with post-coital juices are just that, though..
I understand your position, but I stand by my point. Any relationship I have been in that hasn’t had a fiery passion at it’s base has been doomed from the get go. Having a cool, calm, logical, well reasoned relationship at less than say, forty, is setting yourself up for….a situation like what’s being described here. You meet someone, they’ve obvs got that thing that’s missing. Better Jake sees that now. It was inevitable.
Eh. When I was 30 I had to reassure my husband that I still found him incredibly sexy, but the 8 months of HG when my weight was plummeting while our unborn child would try to stretch my ribcage to get more room made *me* feel incredibly unsexy and really not in the mood. She turned 5 yesterday, and I just have morning sickness with our 3rd (I just had normal morning sickness with number 2 too – it still lasted all the way through, but I didn’t get admitted to hospital for vomming literal buckets of blood so yay).
We’ve gone through patches where we went months at a time between getting it on. As well as 2.4 kids helping with exhaustion, I have an autoimmune condition and 2 chronic pain conditions. We’ve had rocky patches when again we didn’t get busy much. We’ve been together nearly 15 years…
I love him, I fancy him, these things are mutual and for the most part we’re happy together – but our relationship is not defined by the quantity of nooky we get.
In early college I was terrified of all things sexual. My college boyfriend and I dated for a YEAR before we tried PIV penetration. We were absolutely a relationship, and in love, and we smooched and snuggled and told stories, and nobody else got to decide what was right for us.
Joyce and Jacob do not need to jump into bed to have something very meaningful to them.
b) My first college relationship had plenty of passion, but, depending on where you draw the line, was without sex for around the first year. It was serious. It counted.
III) I do think there’s more chemistry between Jacob and Joyce than there was with him and Raidah, so if that’s what you’re trying to say, there’s something of a point there. OTOH, it’s unlikely Joyce will be having sex right away (and will likely be horribly guilty and conflicted when she does) so I guess that’s not going to count for awhile yet anyway?
Thank goodness I’m 48. Makes me old enough to know that passion and sex aren’t really that linked. My 22 year relationship, including the last decade where I’ve had sex less often than I’ve had birthdays, demonstrates that.
I’ve always been of the opinion that you DON’T enter into a new relationship before ending the old one. But i’m not Fundamentalist about it, because I also have experienced what it’s like to be involved with one person, but then realize that you’ve “Gone Stupid” over someone else. Love is brain chemicals and hormones going bibbledy in your brain, and no one can rationally predict what they will do when “under the influence.”
So I’ll cut him some slack, assuming he does in fact immediately break up with Raidah.
So if no sex= nothing lost…can’t wait for Jacob to dump Joyce for the next piece of ass, because like hell Joyce is going to be down for premarital hanky panky??
I’m replying to “I ship Joyce and Jacobs” thought that a relationship without sex isn’t a relationship for the record, I don’t agree with them in the slightest, just thought I’d clarify
Okay so just a fuck you to anyone in a relationship who’s asexual, suffers from sexual trauma, has physical issues that makes sex difficult and painful, or just generally isn’t interested in sex. Got it.
I don’t see the big hooha about Jacob kissing Joyce 30 seconds before he breaks up with Raidah. The decision is made, and it’s not like they’re sneaking around. Jacob is dropping the ax right now. He’s not kissing Raidah again. Nuts to Raidah.
I’m on your team. I was angry with Jacob for emotionnally cheating, but as long as he DOES break up with Raidah within the next 10 minutes, the kiss doesn’t really change anything.
I guess we’re just divided along the lines of “is physical or emotional cheating more harmful?”. I’m definitely “sex != love”, so I’m actually MORE ok with Jacob now (that’s provisional, he needs to go see Raidah right this instant and remove her from the public place before breaking up) than when he was all “yeah Im just pretend playing” when he obvisouly wasnt.
However I think it’s unfair to tell people who feel otherwise to “grow up”. It’s perfectly valid to consider that touching is a boundary.
Now none of this is relevant to the case at hand because we do not know what the rules are in Raidah and Jacob’s couple. Ex-couple. Future ex-couple.
Well, it’s pretty clear that the rules don’t include what’s going on here. That’s why Jacob’s all like “I have to break up with Raidah.”
And I’d say it’s more like “every step of escalation” is more harmful and the kissing is an escalation since it makes it more clear the “pretend” wasn’t.
Yeah,s illy readers, thinking cheating your girlfriend is wrong. When will we realize planning to end your relationship = actually doing so and so it’s totally fine to kiss someone else while you’re still in a monogamous relationship. Honouring your commitments is like…the least adult thing you can possibly do.
In my case, it’s more just that it’s one more step and the details of the formalities don’t matter much at this point. Doing what he’s already done is bad. Kissing is a step further, but breaking up with Raidah is a lot better than sticking with her and pretending this didn’t happen, so today’s strip is a net positive.
Assuming of course that he actually goes through with the break up in the immediate future.
Unlikely – I don’t think Jacob is that sleazy, but it would be a nice counter to Joyce’s rom-com ending.
(Only sleazy of course if he’s doing it without knowledge and consent – which based on all the characterization we’ve seen of both Joyce and Raidah, he would be.)
I couldn’t see Jacob doing it to be sleazy, but I can see him feeling guilty and chickening out of breaking up with her and then not being sure how to tell Joyce what happened.
I have this suspicion we’re about to learn that Mrs. Brown has no problem with Joyce having black friends, but doesn’t want her daughter dating a black man.
Celebration via appropriate physical displays such as dancing around the room!
…And then, because this is DoA written by DYW, I’ll go out on a limb with one more wild prediction: At some point Raidah joins, or at least helps, the Evil Dads League. And it’s at least partially effective, because she’s actually intelligent.
But meanwhile, WOO HOO! They got together! And I called it! We both called it! WOO HOO!
Nah, once they made it clear Jacob was going along with this shit, I got ready. Still don’t think this storyline’s as wrapped up as Joyce wants it to be anyways and I have to read that. 😉
Well, I guess some people have been waiting for this for a long time. I speak, of course, of all those Chan and Char fans out there. Nice to see your favorites proven right, huh?
Holy!!
I put really low (but not zero) odds on this.
I hope Joyce can keep her feet under her and control the neuroticism (which will flare up and down, knowing her.)
If they team up they can compliment each other.
Maybe it all just ignites and falls apart, but maybe not.
Are their good vibes and dynamic a solid foundation, or is the slightly shady nature of how this went down the stronger factor?
Props to Jacob for recognizing his (imo, justified) iffy-ness on Raidah and realizing he needs to face that head on. Kissing Joyce is on some level burning the ships committing, crossing the Rubicon, and committing to that course. Plus I think he likes her 😉
Okay, riddle me this. I completely agree that Jacob didn’t “cross too many boundaries” until *gestures broadly* whatever this is.
Should he have waited until he knew Joyce better? Is there any more Joyce to know better? Should he have broken up with Raidah whilst getting to know Joyce better?
He doesn’t need to wait to know Joyce better to get into a relationship with her. I’m not going to tell people they’re living their relationship at the wrong speed. He SHOULD have broken up with Raidah near the start of this storyline, somewhere between “Hi Harrison” and “Yes, Joyce is my girlfriend.”
I also think that when he said “crossed boundaries” he was planning on kissing Joyce. He came to the realization, and the order in which he played things out coulda been better, coulda been worse.
Very relieved he said “I have to go break up with Raidah” before the kiss, obviously.
Wow. I am speechless. Either this ends up being a good romance, or becomes as volatile as any ship involving Amber and Dorothy. This comic is probably going to last 10 years more so we better prepare for more pain.
Jacob is doing the right thing here. People have been really upset, but I think this is a pretty natural progression. You’re dating someone, yes, but realizing you’re more into someone else and then cutting it off with your current partner is very normal.
What’s important and makes this ok is he’s not spending any significant amount of time going behind Raidah’s back. He realized he was into someone else and then immediately decided to cut it off with her. This is the right way to do.
I’m leaning more on the “too little too late, but at least you’re not being a complete asshole, just 35% asshole”. Jacob deserves a kicking for the bullshit he’s pulled in this story arc, and so does Joyce, but at least Jacob’s making vague motions towards not being a complete asshole.
Oh damnit… I honestly felt Jacob should have broken up with Raidah if anything because he feels it’s over and realized that… but rushing up to kiss Joyce… damnit this will blow up on his face on the future… but then again this ain’t smarting of age…
Prediction: Jacob looks up from smooching a half-swooning Joyce to see Raidah. She is angry and vocal. Then a throat is cleared behind him and he turns around to see Harrison (Jaime forgot something so he came back) who wants to know what the hell was going on.
Either they play Raidah off as the crazy deluded lady and shennanigans continue, or the whole mess is revealed and Harrison is either unimpressed, or really impressed with his baby bro for fooling him…
It’s likely, but I kind of hope that’s not how this plays out. Or at least it isn’t the big negative consequence.
Because that just reinforces the “Raidah is a bad person. It’s good Jacob broke up with her. Joyce did a good thing.” rom-com narrative of this whole thing.
I think the negative consequence is the fact that some of Joyce’s friends won’t side with her.
And its quite possible that she will find out she’s dating someone sort of fickle and doesn’t officially dump you when he gets bored or frustrated with the reality of dating you until he has someone he thinks he likes more lined up.
I can’t tell if it’s good that he realizes he fucked up and probably doesn’t like Raidah as much as he thought he did now that his brother has met Joyce and is going to break up with her or bad that he realized this after spending a day with someone who he found out really likes him after he thought she was just a friend.
It might be because her eyes are a) GIGUNDUS and b) an actual color. I tend to really enjoy Ruth’s expressions also, and she’s got the same style of eyes.
Huh. Was not expecting this outcome, this fast. Kinda see where the “sitcom shenanigans” guys are coming from now with their cry for consequences. Still, plenty of room in the future for fallout.
I didn’t expect this. At all. And ‘too many lines crossed’ is a bad excuse for ‘realized I don’t want to be with her’. If he wanted to be with Raidah, he could still try to work through the mess, fact is he just doesn’t.
But also: Thank goddess he is leaving his manipulative perfect lawyer-to-be girlfriend.
And please, Jacob, don’t break up with Raidah in the middle of the lobby where a lot of people can watch. Being broken up with is bad enough on the self-esteam without it being a public spectacle. Given she is all dressed-up for meeting Harrison, the embarrassment is maximized.
No, you see it’s okay and totally not cheating since Jacob said he’ll break up with his actual girlfriend. Soon. Eventually. In a minute. After the kissing is done. And if you don’t like it, that makes you a Puritan.
Jacob you imbecile, you DON’T kiss people you’re not officially with if you’re officially with someone else, come on, I was with you up until this point, that’s a bunch of bullshit.
Am I the only one who thinks this is really going to hurt Sarah?
Like I know she pitted Joyce to Jacob so Raidah couldn’t have him but that’s after she believed she ruined things. She always got super shy around him that it just feels like she really had a thing for him but didn’t know how to express it (Sarah’s awkward with everything but sarcasm and dourness) or told herself getting invested would ruin things (which is why she doesn’t want to be choose to anyone) and that she’d be fine with just boinking 2-3 times. And it’s totally normal to wanna boink and still feel romantic notions (I mean look at Joyce!)
And Jacob isn’t blind, he said Joyce would someday succumb and suck a thousand dicks after all her repression … guess his may be the first? 🤣
Still I feel like this is necessary – I ship Joe and Joyce and Joe already regressed so I need Joyce to make bad decisions too before they couple up *crosses fingers* I just don’t want Jacob/Joyce to be long-winded. I don’t want this to ruin Sarah and Joyce’s sisterly bond either.
Angry Raidah will be fun though. YOU LOST TO THAT CHILD, CHICK
Sarah releasing forces she can’t control and being hurt by the consequences? Especially since her mean spirited plan focuses on Joye, the one, consistant achilles heel to her prickly defence mechanism?
I can’t see that ever happening. Everything will obviously work out great and the next two hundred strips or so will feature Becky and Dina on a museum date where the only drama comes from Dina picking a fight with the tour guide over some dinosaur lore nitpick.
Even if she has a girlfriend now, even if she was in on the plan to push Joyce and Jacob together, it’s going to be no fun seeing the person you’ve had a crush on for years suddenly smooching someone else.
Give her a couple of seconds, and I guarantee she’s gonna have some kinda thing to say. This is a common enough response in fiction, the automatic “Mmm”, followed immediately by the “real” reaction.
I’m assuming it’s because getting kissed is generally a very pleasant sensation, especially if the recipient is into the one doing the kissing.
Given how conservative her mother is, I suspect she would be less than pleased with this development. And she would twist herself into knots trying to find an acceptable way to say it 🙂
She’s tie herself in knots if Joyce were in the room, but as soon as Carol had Jacob alone I’m expecting a repeat of “Can you really be sure you’re a lesbian, and is it worth your father being in prison?”
Okay, if Carol said something like “Can you really be sure you’re a black guy?”, I would probably die of laughter. Most of the other stuff she could say is much less amusing.
i want to squeal like im reading manga but i shall contain myself! i literally thought 2 days ago, i wonder how long until they spontaneously kiss? thank you for my answer
I still think it would be really funny if, when Jacob finally breaks up with Raidah, she is super casual about the whole thing. “Oh? Well, glad I didn’t loose more time on you than I did then. See you never, enjoy the new girl.”
I fully expect her spiel about not doing jealousy to be bullshit, so it would be funny if she was completely sincere.
I think that the boundary that Jacob crossed was to feel for Joyce what he’s never felt for Raidah. I think that Raidah has been a good study partner, drill sergeant and organiser but they’ve never gone beyond that emotionally. It’s possible that they were okay with that – that they were planning to be allies to get what they both wanted out of life. However, now Jacob has decided that he wants more.
As for Joyce? From this point onwards, I expect her dominant mindset towards her boyfriend to be confusion. She has no idea how things got to this point and she has even less idea where things are supposed to go from here!
HOORAY!!!! Now they are totally doomed! And maybe Shara is watching them and is sad thinking that it’s all her fault that her friend is in this messy situation.
Thank you Jacob. I’ve never understood people who cheat. If you want to be with someone else, then either break up with the person you’re with immediately, or cut that shit right out and don’t cheat. If you cheat on your SO, you suck as a human being. No, there is no good reason and no extenuating circumstance that makes it okay.
This much cheating I can understand. It’s not planned. It’s spontaneous. You’re reacting to emotions.
It’s uncool, but it’s not nearly the level you hit when you go back to your SO and lie about it and hide that you did something and then go back and do it again.
That he knows this goes a long way to redeeming Jacob. Joyce, not sure yet. The fact that this shows he was at least on board with the deception means it was not as “unfair” as she thought it was.
Now to find out how this fucks up her and Sarah’s relationship.
Throughout this whole arc I’ve been convinced that there is some sort of consequence for Joyce where she learns an important life lesson. I had completely forgotten about Joe. Now I wonder if that consequence is a poisoning of her relationship with Joe. Their friendship as it is already has a bunch of pain points but I think they both really care about the other. I can see Joyce being angry and defensive to Joe’s criticisms and yet agonizing over them just the same.
today’s been pretty bad (it’s only 10:30 in the morning oof) but the drama and resulting whiplash from this and the last strip have revived me lmfaoooo
What’s the worst she can do? The most I can remember is her being an asshole in public and trying to turn Sarah’s friends against her. That wasn’t even slightly effective, either.
Admittedly, she also harassed Sarah for a year by making snide comments in the lunch room (such as the lovely gem “I hope you choke”) and likely spread rumors about what a ‘killjoy’ and ‘terrible friend’ Sarah is, effectively isolating her. Like there are worse things to do, but I still think those are some pretty shitty things to do to someone.
And yet I do still feel bad for Raidah and how she’s being treated by Jacob here.
Organize a multi-person, year-long campaign of harassment so her enemy can’t even eat in public without getting crapped on? Because that is literally the first thing we see her doing in her introductory strip.
And that’s not to say that I think Raidah deserves what Joyce and especially Jacob are doing to her here, or that her standard strategy would be as effective against Joyce, who has the protection of an established friend group, as it was against Sarah, whose bullies were her friend group, but still. I wouldn’t underestimate her.
Lot of people in here who are mad about this and tbh it confuses the heck out of me. This is what you’re SUPPOSED to do when you realize that you are actually in love with someone else instead of cheating on your existing partner.
He literally just cheated on her, since he didn’t break up with her before the kiss. Moreover, breaking up to hook up with someone else is absolutely toxic behavior. Ideally, you’d give it a couple of months, so as to insult and hurt your ex. Since people are impatient, at least give it a few weeks. Even in a mutually agreed break-up, a few weeks time is appropriate, if you don’t want to be rude. Else you’re diminishing the relationship to something easily replaced. But to break up just to hook up with someone else? That takes things to the level of spitting in their face.
If you’re a petty person, and the relationship was a troubled one to start with, you can at least try and justify the behavior. But Raidah hasn’t done anything wrong [as relates to her relationship] (that we know of), no matter how much you dislike her. This is just immature and callous behavior on the part of Jacob. All he’s doing here is proving he’s neither ready for meaningful relationships, nor capable of acting in a non-impulsive manner.
dude, that’s a ridiculously legalistic way to go about your morality.
joyce was expressing remorse, and offering jacob a way ought. he clarified his position in a way that was fit and proper. cause you owe the future more than you do the past.
Jacob can clarify with words, instead of kissing Joyce while he’s still got a commitment to Raidah. This is cheating on her.
That said, I don’t think it’s really that bad to break up with someone because you’re interested in someone else. It’s miles better than cheating on them, JACOB.
While I agree that cheating is shitty in principle, I don’t think that one kiss before the break-up rather than, say 5 hours later, actually makes a difference.
“While I agree that cheating is shitty in principle, I don’t think that one kiss before the break-up rather than, say 5 hours later, actually makes a difference.”
No, I don’t especially disagree either. That I was only bringing up for the sake of clarifying that he did, in fact, “cheat” on her, as such is usually determined. ie, “engaging in inherently intimate, especially physically intimate behaviors while in a relationship with someone else”, of which romantic kissing is usually considered to count.
Well, I’m asexual and autistic, myself, so my view on such matters is pretty technical, so I don’t actually see much difference between kissing and sex, as the sentiment is fairly similar. My reason for not disagreeing with your perspective ties to what I laid out above: If it’s going to be toxic to move on immediately after a break-up, then clearly it’s going to be just as (or more) toxic to move on before the break-up.
So, from whatever perspective, it’s fundamentally still shitty behavior.
But yeah, as far as “Cheating” is determined as a social concept, I’m under the impression that this would qualify, while waiting some hours later to be “officially broken up” would not.
Cheating is more about double-timing or testing the waters. Not as much about giving the other a chance to change one’s decision. I don’t see Jacob’s action here as intended to go behind Raidah’s back: the actual cheat was actually going along with Joyce and probably hoping it would escape discovery. At that point of time, he clearly was not intending to break up with Raidah.
And I do think that he also needs to spill the beans to Harrison to stop his brother being proud of him for the wrong reasons.
He has a wagonload of shit coming for him. And Joyce is to blame for a considerable size of it. She basically gave him a “we’ll bury this shit I got you into as well as possible” and this is his “no, won’t do”. It would be fair for them to split responsibility, with Jacob breaking it to Raidah (where he is most responsible for the mess) and Joyce to Harrison.
Cheating is when you intentionally engage in any sort of romantic/sexual act with someone who is not your partner when you are in a monogamous relationship. Jacob is in a relationship with Raidah. He has a commitment to not be smooching other people. He needs to end that commitment (or modify it – polyamory is a thing) before he can ethically smooch someone else. Being ready to end it is not the same as actually ending it. That’s why I disagree here and with David’s assertion it’s only cheating if you intend to double time – no. He’s cheating already.
Technically correct is different from correct and all that…
I really don’t think this matters in any way to the relationships between Joyce, Jacob and Raidah, and how those are going to develop further on.
More relevantly, I and others I know have been in the position of Raidah, and we’ve all had the same opinion that it was a shitty thing to do, since it was making a point of dismissing the worth of our relationships, many of which had been going for quite a few years.
It really doesn’t take much effort to talk with the other party and at least acknowledge the connection that has existed up until that point, even if you don’t intend to on maintaining the friendship moving forward.
This is either going out of the way to hurt the other party, or just not caring enough about the other party to begin with, to give their feelings any real consideration. Sure, it may not matter to [Jacob] if [he] is already going to throw the relationship [with Raidah] away, but it still likely’ll matter to [Raidah]. The same as it did to all of us here in real life with similar circumstances to deal with.
Seriously, giving a bare minimum of respect to others isn’t all that hard, and really shouldn’t be such a surprise to expect towards someone you’ve been trying to build a long-term partnership with, especially over several years.
I mean, just how hard is it to “keep it in your pants” that you can’t resist getting physically intimate with someone whenever the impulse strikes you, even when you know it’s inappropriate behavior?
“cause you owe the future more than you do the past.”
Wow. Going off that, you have absolutely no loyalty to anyone at all, huh?
I’m not taking a pot-shot, here, that’s sincerely the only way I can interpret that, within the context. Especially given that you’re arguing that intentionally hurting someone [or at least, hurting them more] who you have an obligation to and who hasn’t done anything negative to you is worth it, just to save a few moments of time. Just..
Really, I can’t begin to comprehend the perspectives you just presented.
how the hell is breaking up with someone because you’ve realised you like someone else more “toxic behaviour”????? Why should you have to WAIT to get with someone you like? Like, it sucks when you’re the other person but you should NOT expect to put your own happiness to the side for someone’s “feelings”. Life’s too short for that.
This is on the assumption you’re doing things correctly, of course, not in the… weird and problematic way that’s gone out here (although I don’t agree kissing someone right before you intend to break up with someone is cheating… I’m talking about everything ELSE). Break up with them, don’t cheat.
“how the hell is breaking up with someone because you’ve realised you like someone else more “toxic behaviour”????? [etc]”
I’m a bit unclear as to the intent of your argument (as “Break up with them, don’t cheat.” is pretty much the sum of my previous post), so..
Okay, this first section under the assumption you’ve misunderstood me:
Breaking up with someone isn’t toxic. But if you’re initiating the break-up without any warning, then it’s going to hurt the other party if you move on immediately afterward or are found to have been cheating before the break-up. Since that action will very likely “poison” your relationship, likely ruining any chance you may have had to remain friends after the break-up, it is very clearly toxic to the relationship (nevermind to the other party).
Again, the issue here is that you’re deliberately sabotaging your relationship with the other party for no reason other than impatience to get physical with someone else. Clearly, the breaking up and forming of relationships as best benefits yourself isn’t anything to feel ashamed of, as that’s the healthiest way to approach relationships (romantic or otherwise). By way of that, completely and decisively cutting off a toxic relationship is a pretty solid thing to do.
Behaving rudely towards someone who you’ve had a good relationship and who shares the same field as you and thereby may be encountered in future business, as with Raidah and Jacob, is- even if you ignore the emotional factors- pretty stupid behavior on Jacob’s part.
And this section under the assumption you haven’t:
I mean, even in this comic, even socially-impaired Walky understood it was skeezy to move on from Dorothy right away. This is something even socially-inept imaginary characters understand, and that is pretty standard in real life social expectations. I’m really not sure where the confusion comes in.
And “life is short, so it shouldn’t matter if you hurt someone else for no real reason” is just.. holy hell is that entiled and selfish and irrational and, most of all, flat out stupid. Why sabotage a relationship for no reason, just to save a few moments of time?
Again, if you’ve got a mutual break-up, you’ve got some leeway, but either way, if you plan to have any relationship with the individual after the breakup, you need to give their feelings some consideration. And if you don’t, you really need to acknowledge the fact that you few relationships in a deeply, profoundly insincere manner. Because, clearly, these people don’t inherently matter to you enough to want to keep around [as friends], nor are they even worth your time to treat with a bare minimum of civility (meaning you never respected them at all in the first place).
So yes, it’s inherently and deeply toxic, and it’s just unreasonable to argue otherwise. I mean, even you all who’ve commented in opposition to my statements have acknowledged that fact, by making excuses for the behavior rather than being able to justify it. That is to say, it *is* hurting the other person for no reason, no matter how you color it, and saying “but I’m more important” to justify it is pretty much the core of any toxic behavior. Ergo, you all’ve actually validated the sentiment, so..
Seriously, please give the way you approach relationships some deep consideration, and see whether you can’t approach them in a more sincere manner. I’m not sure anyone deserves the kind of sentiment that has been expressed within these comments.
Now, sure. As I’ve already noted, if you’ve mitigating circumstances then there’s also leeway. If the relationship is toxic, if you’re dying, whatever, that may at least give you an excuse for rushing, even if it won’t magically prevented the other party from still being hurt (though, in the case of a toxic relationship, perhaps that’d not only be justifiable but also cathartic).
Again, the issue here is going out of your way to throw away someone you thought was “quality” enough to date, like they’re worthless, and to go out of your way to alienate them. And, again, that’s not an issue if you view people as disposable and don’t respect people who aren’t immediately useful to you and feel non-romantic relationships don’t have any value. Which, again, is a toxic outlook (at least, as it relates to others; Though one could argue that the lost “social currency” can potentially make it self-toxic, as well).
Breaking up with someone because you’ve realised that someone else will make you happier isn’t toxic or rude, or “hurting them for no reason”. The reason is that they are no longer the person who makes you happiest. Sucks to be the other party, but it kinda sucks to be the other party in a breakup regardless unless you both want to break up. How is that “going out of your way” to be rude? It doesn’t mean that they’re worthless, it’s just not what YOU want anymore. And if they are upset enough that you moved on with someone else that they don’t want to even be friends with you anymore… that’s… kind of on them, not on you. Why do you have to suffer in being apart from someone who makes you happy because someone else is gonna be unhappy about it? You’ve already told them that you no longer want to be in a romantic relationship with them, you’re no longer in a romantic relationship with them, what happens in your romantic relationships no longer has anything to do with them. That’s… sort of the point of breaking up with them. An arbitrary time limit isn’t gonna make a breakup suck for them any less.
I know my post was a bit long, but I honestly don’t know if you’re completely avoiding the topic I brought up ’cause you skimmed, or because you just don’t want to acknowledge that there are ways of hurting someone in a breakup *more* and that the solution to such is rather simple, in simply having a bit of patience with things.
And if you think a few weeks without intimate physical contact with someone, despite still being able to see and interact with them every day, is “suffering”, then you may need to consider whether you qualify for the “nymphomaniac”/”sex addict”/etc label range or not.
In any case, all you’re arguing here is that not being considerate of someone else is OKAY, because they’ve been thrown away already to begin with.
If you’ve got a real justification, that somehow avoids the “this is likely to hurt someone else (more than they’d already be hurt otherwise) if you don’t already have an understanding on such matters” aspect, then go for it. But so far all you’ve really expressed is that you have low valuation of the people you have romantic relationships with, especially when they’ve stopped being immediately useful to you, and that you’re completely fine with burning bridges that could perhaps still be salvaged if you were willing to put in a modicum of effort.
Let me be clear:
This is not an argument of who is wrong or right. I am objectively in the “right”, as all I’m noting are distinct facts [eg, “this may hurt someone”]. The correct way to rebute this is by either taking a firm stand that you don’t feel such matters have worth, or by countering the determinations being made. It is not by stating that the determinations don’t matter because you don’t feel the matters have worth. That just gives the strong impression that you’re bad with relationships. As I just noted, if you’re willing to take a firm stand on not caring about others, then it becomes a subjective argument, and we’d simply have to settle on having contrary perspectives.
But so long as you seem to think you can justify your approach without acknowledging that it’s poor behavior based in selfishness and impatience and a lack of consideration for others, and you’re unable to clarify why it isn’t such things, then your argument becomes something else entirely.
Basically, it’s the difference between “I shot him because I don’t feel human life has value” and “I shot him because he’s black, and black people don’t have value”. One is a perspective based in your own valuations (however warped they may be), the other is based in devaluing outside elements without objective justification for such, in an attempt to justify your actions without accepting your internal perspectives [In the case of this example, that’d be “I have a stigma against black people and enjoy murdering people based on flimsy justifications.”].
I’m using that metaphor not to relate the severity of the two matters, but to note that the mindset in question can be rather problematic in any context, with some contexts being more severe than others.
Basically, be honest with yourself and own up to that perspective, or be logical in your arguments. Don’t just try to justify things with non-logical considerations for selfish reasons.
Your posts are just filled with “me”,”me”,”me” [well, “you”, technically].
All you have to do is say “I no longer care what happens to the other party in my current relationship when I find a better one to swap over to, because I feel focusing on my own happiness is so much more important than the needs of others that it doesn’t matter if I inflict additional, avoidable injuries on others on the path to getting what I want for myself”. You state it like that, and I simply can’t argue with you anymore (nor really respect you as a human anymore, but that’s another matter).
However, so long as you try to justify that breakups mean that it’s fine to hurt the other party more than you have to, then you have to provide actual supporting material for that perspective- something which you’ve thus far failed to do.
Relationships (romantic or otherwise) are based heavily in superficial gestures, and also in catering to base emotions. Intentional gestures, no matter how unproductive they may inherently be, have distinct value in appealing to those you’re interacting with. As they say, “it’s the thought that counts”. Or, rather, it’s the intent expressed within your actions.
There’s this pervasive social belief that romantic relationships are something absolute, something which transforms a friendship into a binary have/have-not state. That when a romantic relationship ends, it has to be permanent.
That destroys a lot of connections for no real reason. If that’s just the level you hold your friendships to, or if you don’t have friendships with those you have romantic relationships with, then that’s one thing. But if they’re still individuals you’d consider friends even while in a relationship with them, then the friendship could still potentially be salvaged even if the romantic relationship is not.
And the friendship- or, rather, any relationship- does require you to put in efforts to display your respect or affection to the other party. A bouquet of roses is the most absolutely meaningless gesture, inherently, but it can convey a certain sentiment. Clearly taking someone else’s feelings into account when you’re deliberately (no matter how reasonable such may be) hurting them, can go a long way in expressing that you still value the individual, and don’t view them as disposable.
Your posts, on the other hand, have made it rather clear that you view such individuals as disposable, as you’ve expressed no remorse for them getting hurt, no real consideration of their feelings, and even going so far as to blame them for not heartily accepting your selfish whims without expecting any similar considerations from you.
Again, what this all really breaks down to is:
Do you want to put in a bit of a gesture towards your romantic partners to show respect for them, to at least leave them with a somewhat better impression of the relationship, even if the friendship can’t be salvaged?
Or do you view relationships as disposable, and only value things which benefit yourself?
That’s it, that’s all that’s here. Own up to it, don’t, whatever.
Just don’t try and say that hurting others is unavoidable in circumstances where it clearly is avoidable. That’s just.. tasteless and crass.
@Chaucer59. I mean if you think “pretending that some other girl is my girlfriend in order to impress my older brother and crossing other boundary lines” isn’t cheating then, sure I guess.
By typical social interpretation, it is.
As far as how Raidah’ll interpret it, and as to how her feelings will be affected, it likely is.
Properly, “cheating” would require the intent to violate the trust of the relationship, by engaging in a behavior inappropriate to the expectations of the relationship, in a manner which slights the obligatations you have to the other party (more specifically, the obligations that have been established as far as conduct in regards to physical intimacy with others).
This is pretty blatantly cheating, as the intent, social expectation / typical definition, and effect on the other party would all interpret it as such.
Let’s put it another way: Fundamentally, Sex isn’t really all that special, sorry. Associating cheating with a specific physical act just devalues relationships entirely, making them a simple binary state associated with lust alone. What matters is the emotional intimacy and established trust, and that’s clearly getting violated here. Clearly, most people associate a huge amount of intimacy with sex, which is why it’s somewhat reasonable to hold it in high regard for such considerations. However, intimacy is in no way specific to that, and fundamentally, the strongest intimacy in a relationship will be non-physical (and thus strongly affected by any action which influences that state of trust).
Well, historically, the basis was likely in the risk of reproducing outside of the marriage, especially as it related to woman [who’ve always had a particularly brutal risk when it comes to any form of “cheating”]. Despite that someone reasonable (from a sociological viewpoint) perspective, cheating historically has always been associated with any form of intimacy. Men typically got free passes in most cultures, but women could face severe risks for even a glance or making casual contact. A passion-filled kiss is clearly crossing a line.
In modern society, the concept of cheating has become more gender-balanced and reasonable, with intent and actual intimacy being expected factors. Passionately kissing someone else clearly falls under that. In fact, I’ve never once until now heard anyone not consider that as cheating.
That all said, I believe legality (as it relates to divorces) would only consider sex as cheating [though I’m not especially familiar on that topic, so I may be mistaken], so you may some basis for your perspective.
However, as the subject I was covering relates solely to the emotional impact on the other party, it would definitively be cheating regardless (unless they were in an open relationship of some sort).
Specifically:
especially as it related to women [who’ve always had a particularly brutal risk when it comes to any form of “cheating”]. Despite that somewhat
Come on, do you really think the problem with this whole story ark is so mechanistic? That the prolem is literally Jacob kissing Raidah 5 mins BEFORE he breaks up with here?
I don’t think that’s the problem here, honestly.
It is one of the problems, yes. I don’t see an issue with expecting people to keep their commitments and to notify the relevant parties if they can’t or no longer want that commitment.
I mean, he’s literally doing it just because he’s too impatient to wait.
And that lack of patience is likely going to hurt someone else, and that’s something he’s likely aware of.
That’s a pretty self-evident character flaw, regardless of how you frame it.
Damn… I just finished a hell night at work, realized I hadn’t read this before bed last night and came around to see this strip. That brightened my evening right up, though I have some fairly obvious issues with how this pairing got to this point.
While i’m happy for Joyce & Jacob (i think they’d make a good couple) i’m worried about the kind of message Joyce gets from this. The one she believed from the start “it’s not cheating if we were meant to be together“. I did want her to fall on her face with that, to learn the lesson that peoples’ choices matter and she can’t just overrule them…
but still it’s cute?
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Sarah: 🎊🏆🎉 BEST BIRTHDAY IN THE UNIVERSE 🎊🏆🎉
“What’s one more crossed boundary”
I know right?
I just had a very good evening, and then flipping open my laptop to see Joyce and Jacob making out.
Perfect. ^^
Huh? Doesn’t Sarah want Jacob for herself?
She’s more invested in keeping Raidah and Jacob apart over anything else.
Because, as Raidah said, she’s the equivalent of human sandpaper…
To be fair, Raidah doesn’t deserve Jacob. She’s kind of an awful person. Not mary levels of awful but still awful.
Raidah doesn’t deserve Jacob. He’s a cheater. 🙂
Yeah, I’ve got a lot of problems with Raidah, but she’s not the one causing trouble here.
It’s alright, good chance she’ll walk in and see this for herself.
It’s not ‘cheating’ to realize you’re not happy in your current relationship, can find a better match, and decide to be upfront about breaking up with her. The kiss was as much about reassuring Joyce that this was his mutual interest in her as anything else. “Cheating” would be staying with Raidah while deciding to romance Joyce. He and Raidah aren’t married, aren’t even engaged. This is college, and figuring out that your ‘first love’ isn’t your one and only is part of the deal.
You can trash on Joyce for this sitch if you want, but Jacob’s being as stand-up as it really is feasible to be in his position.
thejeff if this is “cheating” and “causing trouble” to you, you probably need to work on your insecurity. 🙂
Sarah dropped that idea when she realised she was objectifying Jacob (after he talked about how people objectified him a lot) and only she would be interested in a fling/casual thing, while Jacob is a more committed type of person. Then shifted gears on getting Joyce together with him instead.
Joyce put some time and effort into planning Sarah’s birthday, and clearly her hard work paid off.
I wonder if this means Jacob is getting shot by one of the Dads, because we’re not allowed nice things.
I think Willis said nobody will be dying in dummyverse but I don’t have a citation on me
Doesn’t mean he won’t get shot…
To quote from the Disneyfied “Aladdin”: “It’s amazing what you can live through.”
I bet Sarah suddenly popped a smile and she had no idea why while everyone else flips out around her. XD
Sarah: *dreamy smile* Did you ever get the feeling that the Universe loves you, and that everything’s all right with the world?
Dina: *quivering in fear* Well, the rest of us are pretty sure that the Universe is ending, does that count?
Out of all people to make a snarky fear comment you chose “oh no, it is ruth, i am frightened” Dina?
I actually get the feeling that Sarah will be pretty uncomfortable with this.
That is… not the face of a girl upset about what is happening.
I mean, yeah. Have you seen Jacob? **purrs**
I find myself wondering…is this particular strip real, or just a daydream in Joyce’s heated little mind? xD
The probability is about the same as Jacob going over and not breaking up with Raidah and then telling Joyce he did. Not impossible, but unlikely.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/conceding/
Yeah seems that she’s enjoying herself quite well there.
But how is Danny reacting?
That depends on whether or not he can see these hooligans from where he’s sat. Is the elevator down the hall from the… bisexual concussion bench?
Surely he was brought into collision with this storyline for a reason.
Joyce’s Brain: I HAVE SEVERAL OBJEdfsdlfkashd;faskldjfasldf…
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
I came here to make this comment.
Also, “AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!”
And I second-second that “AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!”
I see your “AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH”s (but I do not see your arse, that’s a different conversation entirely), and raise you a FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE
(hit submit too soon)
Because Jacob’s FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE is what Joyce is busy sucking right now. 😛
She might be sucking other parts of Jacob later.
Most likely not. But she will let him rub her tummy with his thing (within the confines of marriage of course).
I will see you “Aaahhh!!”
And raise you a “You Get some, Girl! Woo!”
For see, I can, on occasion, be a Woo Girl.
(enjoy that dated reference)
WHAAAAAAA
ÅÅÅÅÅÅÅÅÅÅÅÅÅÅÅÅÅÅÅ
ØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØ
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
That! a million times!
Tomorrow’s strip: We zoom out to reveal this is a daydream bubble above Joyce’s head.
DON’T YOU DARE!
K, so I wasn’t the only person thinking that.
Sounds accurate.
Tomorrow’s strip: Mike eating cereal, glaring right through the fourth wall.
Honestly, at this point I’d take any Mike. I misssss him. (Is that just me??? Surely there are others who adore his asshole-ish ways…)
Nah, me too. I’m really interested in what’s going on with him rn
Mike missed his chaperone cue….he should punching away right now!
Is he eating Steve-O’s?
Nah, it show’s that Raidah saw them coming and is standing right next to them, just behind Jacob.
That’s what I’m assuming will happen too.
Doubt it.
Willis has been more than willing for his chars to be assholes acting in dumb, self-serving, short-sighted manners before, and invalidating a few weeks of strips doesn’t seem like his style.
More likely the Joyce/Jacob relationship will crash and burn horribly because he’s focused on a serious relationship and she is not remotely emotionally ready for a serious relationship.
She sure as heck originally thought she was, though, which should make things interesting. Jury’s still out on whether she still thinks that way after the whole Ethan debacle, but either way she’s in for some serious trial-and-error learning in the near future.
No I predict that before it crashes and burns Joyce’s family finds out she’s dating a black man.
Really? No one is pointing out that Jacob is basically just doing what he thinks will get him the most headpats from his brother?
You have a very valid point, and I hope that it gets explored at some point.
In the meantime, sweet makeouts and teenage bullshit.
I mean yes he is doing that, but he also genuinely likes joyce and hanging out with her. I have never gotten the impression that he liked Raidah in the slightest, just that he thought dating her would get him bro points from his brother.
Did you really have that impression before this storyline?
It always seemed to me that he liked her. He was always happy to see her, he never hinted at trouble with her. We didn’t see much of them alone together, but when we did he seemed fine with it. She seemed manipulative at times, but he didn’t seem aware of it.
I see your crash and burn, and raise you “Joyce is consciously trying her best and has a minor stress breakdown trying to be mature all the time, every time to be worthy.”
I suspect the crash and burn will be tied more directly to the way it started. Possibly immediately amid a confrontation with Raidah, more likely later in a way I don’t foresee yet. (Joyce being jealous and worrying about someone doing to her what she did to Raidah? Dorothy planted that seed.)
I’m thinking it’ll crash and burn when Jacob finds another flirty, pretty, quirky girl to get close to. It’d just be like, the perfect bow on top. The icing on the cake
I’m calling it now: he dumps her for Lucy.
Bird or prophet, thing of Evil. My mind is pulling that from somewhere. Maybe Poe’s The Raven?
Yup.
“Prophet!” said I, “thing of evil! – prophet still, if bird or devil!”
WELL
YEP
VERY WELL. AND WITH MINIMAL PRACTICE.
I mean, on the Joyce scale sitting together in a booth is at least second base, and sharing a pizza is probably third (she’ll be informing Harrison’s wife of his impropriety promptly), so might as well run for home.
She HELD A BABY. Joyce’s subconscious is pretty sure there is a connection between 4th base and babies!
4th base isn’t a thing. <_<
Hot dang, now it’s a party!
I think you need at least three more people for that.
3rd will be Sarah throwing confetti and laughing manically.
What the h*ck sort of parties do you throw? They sound cool.
You’re under arrest for premeditated smooching!
Unpremeditated, surely!
Depends whether we’re arresting Joyce or Jacob.
Why not both?
PREMARTIaL EXTRARELATIONAL SMOOCHIN! ON THE MOUTH!!!
New Slipshine: Joyce and Jacob do a Kiss. It’s just the one panel
I thought it would be like 30 panels of the one panel repeated over and over.
Just nine panels done in Andy Warhol style.
“The Melancholy of Joyce Brown: The Endless Eight”
DIFFERENT ANGLES.
YEAH, you might wanna go break up, dude.
That caught me off guard.
Heh. I’ve been there. Well sort of.
Like, if Jacob was also a girl, and Joyce was the one dating Raidah.
*Makes popcorn*
Please, feel free to continue.
they smooched
You know, I wasn’t going to tell this story in the comments section, but certain comments below have changed my mind.
Ahem.
Many years ago now, I was in a relationship with a woman. Let’s call her Raidah.
It wasn’t a good relationship, but it was my senior year of college, so I let things slide until graduation because I didn’t want to rock the boat. Raidah was not yet graduating, being younger than me, and I’d tried to subtly suggest that maybe we should call it quits after grad to “free her up” for other options since I wouldn’t be around.
Raidah did not take the hints and was getting ready for long-distance.
ALSO – Raidah had purchased a ticket to an Anime con that summer that I would also be attending and wanted to share a hotel with me and another female friend of ours.
Let’s call her Jacob.
I’d been attracted to Jacob for a while, but the timing had never worked out – one of us was always dating someone else.
SO, we all go to this Anime con where we’re sharing a hotel room. And there’s a J-rock dance. Raidah isn’t interested, but Jacob and I are, so we both go.
And… things begin to crackle. Very seriously. We very nearly kiss, but don’t.
And then we get to go back and sleep chastely in a hotel room with Raidah.
After the Con, we drop Raidah off and then drive an hour back to where Jacob lives – I live several more hours further on, but intend to crash on Jacob’s couch and make the drive in the morning.
During that hour drive, Jacob and I talk around the subject but not exactly on it. I express some frustration that Raidah still wants to be a couple when I wanted to break up amicably before the Con. I also didn’t want to dump her at the con, or immediately thereafter, as I didn’t want to ruin her fun.
Jacob is like “so you are definitely breaking up with her?”
And I’m like “Oh yes. I hate to do it over the phone or IM, but I won’t have another option once I get home” – due to the several hours apart thing.
Jacob considers this.
The conversation moves on for a bit. Then, as we’re nearing Jacob’s place, Jacob asks me out to dinner. Not just food – a date. She specifies this. Date.
I say “yes.”
We go out to dinner. We talk. Some long-standing feelings get confessed. Not unlike some of the things Joyce said to Jacob, actually, except without Harrison there.
And then we head back to Jacob’s apartment.
I do not spend the night on the couch.
I spend the night having sex with Jacob. It is, in fact, the best sex I (at that point in my life) have ever experienced. It is incredible, earth shattering, light-shining-in-my-soul sex.
The next day, after some morning hanky-panky, we go out for brunch, talk some more, and then I give her a kiss and head home.
Once home, I break up with Raidah.
A week later, which was as soon as I could manage, I drove back to see Jacob again.
… and that’s the story of how my wife and I started dating.
So yeah, I cheated on my girlfriend with the love of my life. Was it bad of me? Yeah. Did it matter in the long run? Not one fucking bit.
And before anyone suggests I don’t know what it feels like to be cheated on – yes. Yes I do. I got cheated on really badly the year prior to all this by a previous partner. It sucks, but love is messy sometimes. People get hurt. Shit happens.
ANYWAY… I will go back to celebrating the beautiful kiss between Jacob and Joyce now. ^^
First, because I do think it is seriously important to note and I don’t want it to get in the way of further points I wish to make…
DAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! *squees and pinches cheeks*
*cough*
But, uh, on topic…
Setting aside the whole “being an ass to Raidah” point, which is a point that should be kept in mind, because this Jacob is being an ass, my thing is more about Joyce.
Joyce isn’t your Joyce. This Joyce just doesn’t actually seem ready for a serious relationship. She’s grown a great deal, no question, but she still has that fairytale notion of what dating and romance is like. Just because you make shit chaste doesn’t remove the difficult, ugly complications that come from two people getting together.
And this Jacob has only known this Joyce for, what, a couple weeks? There’s not exactly a long-term relationship here. This relationship just seems destined for rocky shores, if not a complete shipwreck.
……..but, uh, also, DAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW to you!
“And this Jacob has only known this Joyce for, what, a couple weeks? There’s not exactly a long-term relationship here.”
Yeah, but you could say the same of Jacob and Raidah too.
Jacob and Raidah are both sophomores, right? Do we know how long they’ve been dating?
Their second date was to Joyce’s room party, so c.6 weeks?
Jacob is a freshman, same as Joyce.
It’s actually more of a warning signal if Jacob has been longer with Raidah, and one improvised chaotic encounter with Joyce pushes a whole lot more buttons for him than what he has with Raidah. It does not mean that Joyce is the right choice as much as it means Raidah may have been the wrong choice.
Not one encounter. Joyce has been working on this for awhile.
Also, unlike LB4S, Joyce is fictional.
That’s actually a point in Joy/cob’s favor.
Willis can’t reasonably write this comic until they get to the summer after their senior year – he isn’t likely to live to be 300+ years old. Nor can fans be reasonably expected to wait that long.
As such, a story such as mine would have to be shortened into a much smaller timescale to work in a webcomic.
I was thinking more in terms of character arcs. In fiction, character development practically dictates that things like cheating come back to bite the characters so they can learn. It’s part of character growth – mistakes come home to roost (or at least the big ones do, and this plot’s been part of several storylines). Real people can learn and grow (or not) without things like that. Like you said, you recognize it was a bad thing to do but it didn’t end up mattering in the long run of your life. Fictional characters don’t tend to have that because they only exist inasmuch as the author writes them.
Fictional characters can also learn and grow without things like that. Joyce also recognized that she did a bad thing and admitted as much to Jacob – which is why he forgave her.
Just because a trope exists doesn’t mean a writer needs to use it.
That said, I have no idea what Willis is planning. Whatever he does, I’m sure it will be interesting.
No she did not. She dismissed it as an ‘oopsie doodle’ as a result of being drunk on baby and immediately started asserting Jacob liked her. She did offer to come clean to Harrison, but that’s not the same as recognizing wrong doing.
Sometimes fictional characters can learn without things biting them in the ass, but it usually comes with some sort of guilt (which Joyce hasn’t indicated she’s feeling), after some sort of parallel experience, or development along those lines. Authors don’t usually call out situations like this so much if they’re not going to come back around later.
^^ Thank you for the heartfelt DAW, Wraithy2773! ^^
I will agree on that point – my story had a LOT of history behind it, whereas Joyce has known Jacob for a fairly short time.
My wife and I actually met my Freshman year, but only were only acquaintances within the same friend group. Also, for the first two years I knew her, I only saw her date men. Actually, come to think of it, her dating back then ran very Jacob-esque – “good on paper” serious boyfriend Honor Society types.
I, meanwhile, dated (or failed to date, see recent BiAngst related story) all around my anime club, picking up and losing boyfriends and girlfriends and affecting a mildly ditsy cheerful affect. Because I didn’t want to be the girl no one even noticed like I was all through highschool. But I digress.
My wife and I didn’t really connect until Junior year when we bonded over our mutual love of a specific anime with a LOT of yuri content. And she FINALLY dated a girl, causing me to learn that she was, indeed, also bi. Of course, by dating said girl, she was also off the table. And that was fine – she was rapidly becoming my best friend. We hung out together a lot. It was a good time.
And then I started dating my Raidah, who (unlike the my wife-Jacob comparison) was nothing at all like Raidah. She was fun… but things just never felt right. But, like I said above, I didn’t want to rock the boat.
And, at around the same time, my wife broke up with her girlfriend and went back to dating Honor Society guys.
Except, since we were now best friends, my future wife complained to me about how bored she was with “that sort of person”. I complained about my girlfriend being clingy and jealous. And we hung out watching anime, went out to dinners, and complained about our love-lives over drinks.
Meaning that, when we hooked up the summer after my graduation, my future wife and I had years of friendship and closeness to draw upon. And, on top of all that friendship and trust, we turned out to be very physically compatible.
Obviously Joyce and Jacob don’t have that to draw upon, having only just met a few weeks back their time. For that, we have to wait and see. Still, since I very much relate to these two, I do ship this. A LOT.
The other distinction here is that your Jacob (who is actually really more like your Joyce – with you being Jacob) didn’t decide prior to any signs of trouble in your relationship that she was going to get you two to break up.
I can certainly see why you relate to Joyce/Jacob, but I don’t think the parallels are really that close – especially the most problematic parts of this arc.
Well, on the problematic part… I would say that my own behavior was far more problematic than what Joyce has done thus far.
whatmakesyouhaha.mp3
This is literally Joyce’s first kiss in a romantic context, no?
Her kiss with Ethan was almost sui generis and I don’t know how to describe it.
I really don’t think the Ethan kiss can count by any reasonable metric. So… yes, I think so. That was my take, anyway.
Yeah, I don’t think the Becky-kiss counts.
I’m struggling to phrase it properly as a ratio, fraction, or percentage, but Joyce is batting 2 out of 3 for kissing gay people.
That’s better than some gay people
Ironically, you phrased it well as a ratio or a fraction, but terribly as a baseball batting statistic : .666 , or “batting six hundred sixty-six.”
A number Joyce may have problems with for other reasons.
Cue the studio audience “Oooooohhhh!” that we all know & “love” from cheesy 90’s sitcoms.
Oh my.
Joyce is never coming back.
NO JACOB YOU DO THAT AFTER YOU BREAK UP WITH RAIDAH!!!!
TIMING!
Now that’s another point against him in Never Have I Ever!
FWIW, in his head, he’s already done so. That said, yeah: It might have been appropriate to do these things in a different order. Maybe also to formally ask Joyce’s permission first too (even though her likely answer would have been’yes please’)!
It’s worth nothing. Like, zero worth. Possibly negative.
Joyce’s answer definitely would not have been “yes please”. Her reaction when overwhelmed is, though. Jacob was using a shortcut here, but whether he can do the distance with who Joyce is and how long it will take to have her mind catch up with her desires is a different question.
Okay that’s gonna be a first kiss to remember.
She’s kissed other folks before (Becky, Ethan) but I don’t know if they count or not.
Every time you kiss someone new, it’s a first kiss. This is one of them.
Fair enough.
Oh fuck no. I’m not sticking around twenty internet meters of this comment section tonight. See y’all tomorrow.
See you tomorrow, have a good night.
I did. Watched some Codename: Kids Next Door.
cheers
I’m busting out the popcorn and making a night of it!
Also a valid way to handle it!
For those who are still here, what do you think is the conversion formula between internet meters and real meters?
Line pitch.
Well, BBCC only said twenty internet meters, so I’m guessing each internet meter is about a thousand real meters?
Well, the typical internet meter (when usage is meter) is measured in bytes (or more likely gigabytes) per month. Google sez 190 gigabytes per month. Since we want metric, that converts to (on average) 190 GB / 2.628e+6 s. So a single internet meter shows a bandwidth of about 72.298 KB/s and 20 of those would give us 1.446 MB/s. That seems like about how much bandwidth BBCC isn’t willing to spend on this.
I’m…. not entirely sure how to convert from bits to length. It’s a bit like trying to figure out how to convert pounds to kg, I guess. Damn imperial system!
I’m British:
Meter – 1. a device that measures something (thermometer, electric meter, etc); 2. (in poetry/verse) a stressed and unstressed pattern of syllables (iambic pentameter, etc).
Metre – a unit of measurement.
Not sure if that helps? Maybe BBCC is being poetic and they don’t give 1.446 MB/s worth of hoots?
Well, here’s the interesting part: There are several ways to calculate this!
“Tape” data recording converts 1 KB of data into about 3.1 mm of data tape, so with your numbers, an “internet meter” is approximately 224 mm, leaving 20 Internet meters as approximately 4 metres.
Punch-card data was even less efficient, and was the earliest form of data storage that still carried content that was used to initialize proto-Internet access; these converted a “key” of about a KB (give or take, depending on what level of access you needed) into a 5.45 cm punch card. By this metric, 1 Internet meter is approximately 394.02 cm, or 3.9402 m, leaving this as a 78.804 metre radius.
Meanwhile, micro SD cards are 165 cubic millimeters and can store over a TB of data.
Assume we fill a standard twenty-foot-equivalent shipping container with 1TB micro SD’s, allowing half the volume for packing material and air, and we then stick this container on the back of a truck and drive it from Cape Town, South Africa, to Omsukchan, Siberia. Google Maps says this trip will cover 23,222 km and take 332 hours in no traffic. The route will cross several less-than-peaceful international borders, including Sudan/South Sudan, Egypt/Israel, Israel/Lebanon, Lebanon/Syria, Syria/Turkey, and Georgia/Russia, so it’s safe to say there will be traffic and significant delays. Assuming that this increases the time to 400 hours, and that we drive 8 hours a day, we get to Siberia with our shipment of micro SD cards after 50 days.
This is equivalent to a bandwidth of a bit over 23 TB/s, or over 315 million Internet Meters.
…..
I’m starting to question the usefulness of both this unit of calculation and the calculations I just performed.
I believe your ISP determines how much your internet is metered.
Counterpoint:
1.000 m(I) = 1.024 m
Have a good evening.
I’ll just be making sexually suggestive comments everywhere. As I am wont to do.
Hey, they made me laugh.
^^ Yay!
That is, indeed, the point.
College is where I mastered the art of comedy as a replacement for actual social skills.
Eh, social skills are overrated. Bring on the lull.
*lulz. Damn you autocorrect.
Seconded here, I’m out for the night.
I dunno, I thought yesterdays comments of “Raidah, who acts like she’s a super adult and thinks that’s how she’s supposed to act wearing very adult clothes to meet her boyfriends family members means she’s actually a social climber who wants to use jacobs brothers supposed status (even though it’s confirmed that several of her friends parents own law firms, she has no need to suck up to some random lawyer) and also her relationship with Jacob is a sham to get at his brother.” was way weirder than todays, which all seem to be either “yay my ship sailed” or “God damn it Jacob break up with her before you make out with other people”
Why is that last one weird?
No I’m saying today’s don’t seem weird at all, except one dude in the comments saying relationships aren’t real if there’s no sex but that’s just one in a sea of way more normal comments.
Yeah, the comments were a lot less explosive than I thought they’d be. I am mildly disappoint. XD
wHY IS THIS comic NOT ABOUT maLAYa?!
This hasn’t been a really great way to start a relationship but they work so well together and argh I love them as a couple
Pretty much.
What really bothers me is the question of whether Jacob is doing this because he’s realized he is interested, or because he’s realized his brother would approve.
Poor Raidah.
Yeah, even I, who definitely doesn’t like Raidah, feels bad for her.
Ooof, that’s a good point, Jamie. I was worried about that when Harrison said he was proud of Jacob and stuff earlier, but I kind of forgot all about it in the excitement of DAT KISS… I really do think Jacob likes her as a person, given the previous few weeks (real time, I guess, not sure how long comic time) of interactions and even flirting, but unfortunately, banter and even light flirting don’t necessarily mean you’re romantically interested in someone – sometimes they can be just for fun. Sometimes you don’t even realize you’re doing it, if you have good social chemistry with someone. Joyce seems to have an actual crush on him, but while he could totally reciprocate that, he could also be totally leaping at what appears to be a pre-vetted path to brotherly approval… possibly without even consciously realizing that’s what he’s doing. :/
Honestly I think the start of a relationship isn’t as important as the way they go together to a hopeful happy ending for both. I think the start with Raidah was probably “better” as in nobody got cheated on or hurt or lied to or anything like that but if you look at their way as a couple, then you know Raidah never felt “he’s the one I want to spend the rest of my life with-love” but more like “he is the best option to further my career-guy” while Jacob seemed to have felt he was missing something out of this relationship that keeps him not as happy as he thought he would be once he got the “checklist-girlfriend” to impress his big brother.
So while the start of Jacob and Joyce was messy I hope their way together as a couple will be a very happy and loving one.
EEEEEEEE!!!!
Tomorrow, of course, Jacob or Joyce will look up from their kiss and make immediate eye contact with Raidah, but today is the day to EEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
Naturally. Heaven forbid they get into the elevator and THEN kiss, like normal teenagers/sitcom couples/obnoxious coworkers everywhere… smh
Well, I can’t say I am displeased by him going to break up with Raidah. I think she deserves to know what is going on but on the other hand I’m not sure how i feel about this kiss. But how can this breakup possibly go?
Oh shit, I didn’t think Dumbing of Age was coming to a close so soon. After Willis gets all the imminent Slipshine money this is obviously the setup for he’ll be able to comfortably retire, no doubt!
He would be able to retire off the earnings of a Joyce slipshine, huh?
I would not be shocked if he considers that his nest egg.
Noooooooooooooooo
I’m done.
Bittersweet ain’t it? Joyce and everyone who wanted this pairing got what they wanted but through underhanded means. So conflicting.
I wouldn’t call it “underhanded” so much as “stupid.”
Classic Willis!
I mean… **shrug** Realizing that you’re with the wrong person happens for all kinds of reasons.
Yeah, I agree. I do feel bad for Raidah, but people can and do realize that they’re in relationships that are not fulfilling, even if the other person does love them. It’s a terrible situation, because the dumpee really hasn’t done anything wrong, but keeping the couple together in such circumstances is ultimately a bad idea because if one party doesn’t love the other, ultimately it’s either going to lead to cheating or resentment/bitterness.
This was one of the hardest lessons I ever had to learn in life. You might love somebody (and they might even love you in return, in a fashion), yet the two of you would still be a terrible couple together.
Anyway, the big question now is… Does Jacob actually find himself attracted to Joyce? (We didn’t hear his answer after Joyce said how she feels about him, after all.) Or is he doing this out of a sense of obligation (because boundaries were crossed) after realizing that he doesn’t love Raidah and was only with her because he felt he had standards to live up to? (He might be falling into the same trap here again, dating Joyce because his brother approves. He definitely seems to enjoy Joyce’s company more, but is that enough to really translate into relationship material?)
Well, that’s how I feel about myself.
Get a grip! No fucking in university means J and R had at best a platonic relationship with first-right-of-refusal, maaaaaybe. Imho, Jake is totally up for grabs, no apology necessary.
Whoa, I don’t like Raidah and Ivm excited about this development, but… You mean that if there isn’t sex in a relationship (yet), it somehow doesn’t count as a relationship? This asexual-spectrum girl has some Strong Opinions on that subject.
In addition to what Happilychaotic said, I’m not sure where “no fucking in university” came from. He’s talked about not wanted casual sex and not wanted to be just a sex object, but he’s never said anything I can find about actually not having sex.
We were never shown how much or how little physicality Jacob and Raidah had. There was one time he suggested messing around and she demurred, reminding him to study.
I can well imagine Jacob never kissed Raidah like he’s kissing Joyce, but we don’t know, and that part of the story may never be backfilled for us.
(PS Also, in addition to Happilychaotic’s post.)
She demurred in a “not now” kind of way, not a “I can’t believe you’re asking” kind of way.
I really don’t see where this “they never had sex” or “Jacob’s avoiding fucking” idea comes from.
*coughs in trauma that lead to sex repulsion and has been in a v happy and legitimate relationship for 3+ years*
Also, you do realize that joyce isnt going to be having sex with Jacob either, right? He’s holding off on sex and Joyce…that’s not gonna be on the table for her until after a few years and plenty of therapy. Even without the deep seeded Christian shame, she’s still traumatized by Ryan. That kind of thing sorta changes sex for you
Joyce is repressed, but also horny. Chances are good she’ll have sex long before she gets any therapy.
Not that she won’t need the therapy.
Wow. I didn’t realize I was single all this time. Guess I don’t need to plan for what I thought was my four year anniversary in a couple weeks.
See how much work you saved. 😉
I know, right? Now I don’t need to pick a restaurant or a present or find a movie or something else to do or anything. I can stay home and rewatch the Mae Young Classic or a new Bob’s Burgers episode or finish my reread of Mossflower or *gets dragged off before I can finish my possibilities*
You might be able to get some money back by amending your tax returns then.
Dating anniversary, not wedding, so no taxes applicable, I’m afraid.
I can’t argue that what Joyce did wasn’t underhanded and fairly stupid, BUT Jacob and Raidah weren’t exactly a love story for the ages. With the fallout from the impending breakup and guilt about the shenanigans, I doubt this ship is going to have smooth sailing anytime soon.
On one hand i ship it but ON THE OTHER HAND not only is this entire situation Mildly Fucked, but Joyce still have a Lot of issues with sexual things and it’s going to be interesting how she handles those urges and if she has those same issues with not-quite-sexual stuff like kissing so???
I really hope it’ll go well but i’m also not necessarily sure that it will.
I mean. Jacob’s the one who doesn’t want to fuck, no?
Also, can’t wait for Joe’s reaction.
Jacob doesn’t want casual sex and doesn’t want to be just a sex object. That doesn’t translate to doesn’t want to fuck.
Joyce on the other hand desperately wants to and is also terrified and guilty about it. That part will be interesting.
I think people are assuming his problem from Shortpacked exists in this universe.
Right. Joe is going to have an apoplexy.
Taking bets now! How many of Joyce’s family are incredibly racist?
Offering ten-to-one on Hank, two-to-one on Carol!
I’ll take that bet on Carol. Easiest money I ever made.
She was the one who was pleased she could brag her daughter isn’t racist after she met Sarah (stated in front of Sarah)… I suspect there’s a “good ol’ Southern racist grandma” (that’s a proper trope right?) and Carol thinks she’s not racist but is overflowing with various institutionalised racism issues she has never examined and doesn’t even realise are weird and racist.
I think she’s not racist to her neighbors but would be racist if there is a chance of biracial grandchildren. The “okay for others, but not MINE” is also a strong philosophy.
20 On John for “Incredibly racist”.
You’re likely right, but: At what odds?
Shit, I’m not even offering odds on John. He’s a blatant hypocrite. At least Carol’s a little bit consistent.
I’d rate the odds at 1:3. Not 3:1, 1:3.
Racism as a more coarse form of tribalism is ingrained. Communities self-segregate comparatively naturally. People with a decent upbringing are ashamed when their racism triggers. The decisive thing is whether, when you have to make the choice, shame or racism will win. If you have to choose frequently, at one point of time one of the two will be a distinct memory at best. Carol and Hank have kept an environment where thinking about this choice is rarely needed. I have the impression that getting confronted with it would not strengthen their relationship.
I’ll put 10 on John. He’s probably got a “white man’s burden” thing going from his mission work which he believes makes him somehow enlightend that really incredibly twisted. (If that makes sense.)
Should there be separate columns for actually racist and just doesn’t know better racist?
I think Carol was the one who was excited to tell the entire neighborhood that her daughter wasn’t racist upon discovery that she had made “An *African-American* friend!”, so I’d put her more in the deluding-herself racist column.
There’s a word for people who are racist by default rather than malice. It’s racist.
But good news! Despite how people treat the word when called on it, racism is not with you forever! All you have to do is accept that you’re a human who can have flaws and put conscious effort into being better. Not for an expectation of reward but just to not be cruel.
Yup, that’s all. Just stop being racist. Aaaaaaany day now…
The problem is, people’s worldviews are REALLY robust and most people don’t want to think of themselves as bigots of any flavour. Therefore they reject the concept that they may have unintentionally bought into things like institutionalised racism and have various beliefs that need to be challenged as a personal attack on themselves as individuals. ‘Swhy they get crazy-defensive and angry at the idea of white privilege…
Apparently people whose worldviews include the concept “people’s understanding of the world is based on their own experiences, and those are not universal, nor objective fact” are in a minority.
The word is the same, but there’s still a broad spectrum from
“absorbed some stereotypes” to “burning crosses on the lawn” and where you are on that spectrum matters.
Let’s throw in a dark horse bet. Offering 15-to-1 on Jocelyne.
Aw, no! Joss is good people. Maybe this’ll be the development that introduces the mystery brother whose name I don’t remember? Maybe he’s in an interracial and interfaith relationship too. Ooooh, what if he’s married to a Muslim woman?! That would absolutely have ostracized him from his family.
I would love to meet Jordan.
You’re not getting a cent out of those odds. Offer 500-to-1 and someone might consider it.
This was my thought, actually!
Maybe a little flaw in jocelyne’s character, to be overcome.
But maybe not. Guess we’ll see! 🙂
$850 on Carol
Bah, don’t be silly. I’m sure Carol and the other Browns will approve of Jacob.
…
Because he’s “one of the good ones”, of course.
Sure, they’ll be fine with the black guy. But when they find out his church is almost Catholic!
It’s all fun and games until your olives touch my peppers.
Twenty quatloos on Carol being racist.
…. okay.
I mean, there’s still a question on how much this is motivated by Jacob’s desire for his brother’s approval.
And Joyce is definitely gonna have a moral panic when she realizes the *fuckedness* of the situation.
And then there’s Raidah,
Who can definitely hold a grudge.
Yeah, I imagine Raidah isn’t above cutting a bongo.
And so the League of Stupid grows
Huh. You know, a Blaine and Raidah team up would be a lot more interesting to watch than Blaine and Toedad (Ross?)
I don’t think Joyce sees any moral problem with ‘stealing’ someones boyfriend? She’s more “well obviously the TRUE love wins out and the other person was just the person in romantic comedies and hallmark movies that the protagonist starts out with but doesn’t appreciate them” type.
I think Jacob is the one who is going to have the moral issues with this, especially when he examines why he did it and why he couldn’t do it better.
Agree. Joyce isn’t equipped to be a decent person about this. But I kinda hope that seeing Raidah’s reaction will trigger the things she is equipped with.
I’m not sure I see this relationship lasting more than one strip, to be honest.
I mean, as messed up as Joyces actions are towards ignoring his boundaries, she isn’t the one who cheated on Raidah, I think her moral issue is how she treated the guy she likes, Jacob is the one who cheated on someone.
If Raidah’s reaction does anything to Joyce, I think the it’d be making her remember the advice she got last time this storyline came up (I think it was Dorothy who said it?) that a guy who so easily leaves his girlfriend may not be the best choice to date. I’d hope Jacob wouldn’t make this fuck up twice but I wouldn’t be surprised if Joyce got it into her head to be anxious that since he cheated with her, he may cheat on her.
If Jacob does now go and break up with Raidah (which I certainly hope he does), there is absolutely nothing “indecent” about Jacob and Joyce getting together. Joyce does not need to hold off a relationship with Jacob to be a decent person after a break-up (before is certainly a different story). Raidah has a right to honesty, but not to Jacob.
Ok, as long as Jacob breaks up with Raidah now, that’s pretty good. Not perfect behavior but I don’t expect that.
I am interested to see where this goes from a meta standpoint, how the story will develop around it. I like this pairing but I am paranoid drama will happen because story.
I’m hoping drama happens because story- I love drama, it’s half of why I read this strip
I know, right? It’s why these comments confuse the balls out of me half the time. If all the characters made smart choices and nobody was ever bad… then what the hell would it be about?
I was more saying “I sometimes see relationships broken up in fiction seemingly just to create drama” and “I like this one and don’t think it is too flawed from the outset like most others”
What I don’t like about this arc – assuming this is a resolution, which I’m not – is that this the wrong lesson for Joyce to learn for her character growth. The whole arc has been framed as Joyce being in the wrong, being guided by her weird ideas of romance learned from Christian rom-coms and the narrative currently appears to be saying “Yeah, go with that, those will work.”
That’s not a good thing for Joyce’s overall character arc. She’s supposed to be growing away from those origins, not reinforcing them.
GodDAMMIT Jacob. You know, you know, YOU KNOW you need to do the breaking up before that and Raidah is RIGHT OVER THERE. I don’t care how well it punctuates your point. But no, you have to go ahead and cross into full-blown asshole.
Sadly, Jacob’s fatal flaw, at least in the Walkyverse, was always poor impulse control. I suspect he’ll realize how poor a decision he just made by doing things out of order pretty quick.
It’s not like he’s fucking Joyce right there in the lobby. It’s a kiss. It’s a big deal for Joyce, but for Jacob it’s mostly about pushing into “point of no return” territory.
But do you think it would be a big deal for Raidah? If so, it’s pretty cruel to do things this way.
Let me assure you that a kiss on the lips with romantic intent on a person other than the person you are in a relationship with is a big deal (unless you have a mutually-agreed open relationship). it’s cheating, plain and simple. And it’s so incredibly unnecessary, as just waiting 5 minutes to actually do what he said and break up with Raidah first would’ve made it fine (not great, but fine).
It’s incredibly disrespectful to both Raidah (who hasn’t done anything wrong to Jacob) AND to Joyce.
I agree with the Point of No Return argument. As much as possible in a 4 panel comic where every sentence is expensive, Jacob dropped hints he was feeling unhappy with his relationship with Raidah–but it was still lingering. I can imagine he’s picturing himself talking himself out of it and lingering months more, especially if Raidah makes a persuasive argument for it. (as lawyers and future lawyers do).
Like Joyce is saying sitting in a booth might be shady, but it’s not dealbreaking bad. So Jacob does something dealbreaking bad to mentally seal it to himself that he really is serious about this. He can (and should) keep this in his back pocket so as. Ot to needlessly hurt Raidah, but having that in his pocket will remind him of the choice he made. And if Raidah somehow holds tight and won’t easily accept the breakup, he can always drop that as the nuclear option.
Subverted would be if Raidah breaks up with him first, or easily accepts it because she also wasn’t very satisfied. More straight is finding out about Joyce either directly or by implication if they start dating suspiciously soon after the breakup and harbors some resentment. Especially after how she dismissed Joyce as a little girl who could never, ever pull this off. Pulling even this much off Completely “by accident” on unconscious whims still counts! Unconsciouses have a certain cunning.
+1
Yeah, I can see Jacob thinking “Oh shit, what if Raidah agrees that today wasn’t really being unfaithful and we can work things out? I don’t want to work things out with her!”
Arguably that’s a pretty poor reason to snog somebody you know really likes you though, even if you do also like them and reckon you could be happy with them.
Honestly, I don’t think the kiss at this point matters. Assuming he does actually go over and break up. Technically, I guess it’s cheating – but then technically he’s been over that line all morning so what’s one step further.
The real harm of cheating comes from the hiding and the lying and the suspicion and all that comes with that. A quick kiss before breaking up doesn’t do anything more than the break up itself does.
Unless of course Raidah sees it and that’s at least partly because she wouldn’t know it was the first kiss and that he was coming to break up with her.
Oh what a load of crap.
Well, yes. But on the other hand, not even remotely. Breakup first, then hot makeouts with the new person. It’s common courtesy, Chuck.
Geoffrey
Ho boy.
It’s the 21st century! You’re supposed dump people by text message!
I thought ghosting was the new thing?
Haha yeah. Dumping by sms is SO 2012. Ghosting significant others is the new hotness. Actually even that is fading. Ghosting EMPLOYERS is the new Go Big (And) Or Go Home.
PS – don’t ghost anybody it’s dehumanizing to them and you.
That’s sort of the point. It’s a means of revenge at one’s own expense.
Watch Sarah just also happens to be making her way there. Just in time. Just throw more grease on the fire
Sarah sent Joyce to break them up. This is a birthday present to her. Sure, it’ll be bittersweet when she sees them together but she’ll get to remember she hurt Raidah.
kinda hope she chokes on itok so, on the one hand, cheating bad. like, cheating really really bad.
on the other hand, i AM happy to see joyce is finally gettin’ some.
In one corner, we have Joyce’s thirst finally resulting in a tall drink of water straight to the mouth. In the other corner, we have a very explicit and clear-cut case of cheating. Quite what the result will be, I couldn’t even hope to guess.
HOO boy HERE we go
On one hand, yay Jacob for realising this was unfair to Raidah and needing to break up, on the other other, bad Jacob! Kiss Joyce AFTER you have broken up with Raidah! Not before!
He’s definitely got his order of operations backwards. You can tell he’s not a computer guy.
Or he IS but just got big endian and little endian notation confused as can happen. (insert “Joyce big endian caboose” joke here)
Um, how much do you know about modern CPU design? The relevant search phrase is “speculative execution” and basically CPUs do things very much out of order and then reconcile it later.
It may be worth noting that speculative execution has caused some really nasty security bugs that have come to light recently.
I’m also not a computer guy, so you could tell me basically whatever terms you like and I’d probably buy it.
🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰
FUCKING FINALLY
No no no – the fucking hasn’t started yet. Give it time.
“Two years later…”
I’m not going to live long enough to get to junior year here…
Two years later in-comic would mean several decades later in real time
Unless Time Skip!! Sometimes comics (mangas?) do those!
3-year time skip, during which two characters have died, one has changed personalities almost completely, one got absurdly hot out of nowhere, and everyone has sweet new haircuts.
No, Joyce still doesn’t hold with per-marital hanky panty.
That may go by the wayside sooner than later. She’s already had less-than-pure thoughts re:Jacob.
But Jacob doesn’t want to have sex either. That’s why this week be interesting
Ah, but what counts as “sex”, really?
Serious answer: if someone is trying to cause an orgasm, it is sex.
That’s reasonable!
But is it Jacob’s definition? Or Joyce’s?
Wow, what a perfect avatar for that username!
She still has the guilt and the trauma… Just being horny aint gonna fix that
But the guilt and the trauma don’t necessarily prevent you from having sex. That just adds to the guilt and trauma.
There’s a reason people all over the world wake up the morning after a hot hookup and immediately think “Oh god, what did I do!?”, after all.
I give zero damns about any problems people have with this. I. Ship. It.
(Bye, Felicia. I mean, Rashida.)
**does that dance Joyce does in the comic where she points out that it’s the Baptists who forbid dance**
Rashida Jones or Representative Tlaib?
Blonde girl and a black guy, talk about stereotypes 😛
Next Slipshine moment will be about Joyce getting some chocolate.
Blonde?
More of a dirty blonde, I think.
Nah, they haven’t made it upstairs, yet. She’s probably fairly clean, at this point in the day. Now, if we check back in a few in-story hours, she might be something of a mess. If one of us catches my drift, because I’m not sure I know where I’m going with that.
Speaking for myself only? Up until I was in like middle school, my hair wasn’t blonde, my hair was fucking WHITE.
And now, as a 30-something? I’d almost pass as brown-haired. Hair’s fucking weird.
Who can say we’re the wrong ones…
I’d say at least buy her dinner before smoochin’ but I’m pretty sure Jacob paid for her/everybody’s brunch so…
Now to be serious, yeah Jacob should probably have broken up with Raidah before kissing Joyce. I get that he probably realized that Joyce and him are probably more compatible despite the fucked-up-ness of how this all began and he just kissed her on impulse but still. On the other hand, Raidah is a completely unlikable person so…
Who paid for the pizza* just now? I missed it.
* (and subs)
Wouldn’t Harrison pay for the pizza, being older and a lawyer?
YAAASSSSS i love this dumpster fire!! Goody two shoes jakes doing what he wants! Radiah learns you can’t brush off everyone just because they don’t go to your specific goals! Joyce does something bad and adventurous! Character growth! This is my favorite ship❤️❤️❤️
Care for some dumpster fire marshmallows? ::offers bag o’ marshmallows and a pointy stick:: Mmm, flavorful.
This made me very happy and I did not expect to feel this happy about this
So Joyce just lied and manipulated her way into a relationship with her dream guy, and isn’t gonna face any consequences at all for it.
Greeeaaaat…
She needs to get away with some stuff while spiraling out of control. I think Willis is honestly bringing back the Dark/Nega/Anti Joyce from Roomies n such, but doing it more realistically. So she needs to get away with just enough to start going, “Yeah no morality is crap” THEN have it all start coming down around her
Toe Dad and Asshole McGee strike her and others, she finds out that somebody who is willing to break up that fast over that shit may be willing to do it again, she alienates herself from her friends due to pulling a Toby McQuire Venom Spiderman, and does some serious soul searching
I saw this coming. Joyce has impenetrable plot armour on Mary Sue levels. Willis did write good believable characters but that entire plot arc reeks of bad fanfiction.
Could you let us know if Marcie ever gets some, since you’ve read to the end of the comic?
First rule of time travel: Don’t spoil internet comic strips, because it might influence the author to change the ending. And then you’ll just look foolish when you get back to your home timeline.
This has been a Public Service Announcement, paid for by “The Committee For Real Time”.
Ok, where is the petition I sign for Willis to install “like” buttons?
If that’s the first rule, is the zero-th rule of time travel “Don’t try to stop Hitler, it never works”?
No, the zeorth rule is, “don’t sleep with anyone, because they will be your ancestor.”
There’s a little footnote on it that says “Do not, under any circumstances, sleep with Hitler. We have no idea what might happen, but our top brains are pretty sure it’ll have catastrophic results.”
You think there will be no consequences? What strip have you been reading? I will bet you $20 there will be consequences. Effectively guaranteed.
I think that regardless of how Raidah reacts, Joyce and Jacob will still become a couple and the core cast will be annoyed for three strips before getting over it because Joyce.
And then it all blows up in her face. Which it’s going to, though it might be awhile and I don’t know how just yet.
Half the core cast was encouraging her, most of the rest knew nothing about it. Dorothy and Joe were the only ones critical.
Yeah, because this was all Joyce’s doing. Give it a rest.
Harrison: You must be Jacob’s new girlfriend.
Joyce: *immediately lies, then doubles down, then (accidentally or no, doesn’t matter) drags Jacob into it due to his fear of disappointing his brother*
I don’t see how it’s not her fault.
Jacob could very easily have called out Joyce’s lie when he first found out. He could have let Joyce come clean when she offered to do so instead of carrying on with the lie. He could have not kissed her before breaking up with Raidah.
Saying this is mostly Joyce’s fault? Fair, I’d say. Suggesting Jacob has no responsibility for his actions and decisions here, and doesn’t carry at least part of the blame? I’m a bit more skeptical.
Thank you, S&C. Just so.
You don’t think Raidah will do something? This is the person who still harasses and gives shit to Sarah over something she did to a friend for her own safety. Just because there’s no consequences happening immediately right now doesn’t there won’t be later.
Raidah will be a massive bongo, as she always is, and things will blow over and Joyce will still get her smoochies with Jacob.
IE, no consequences.
Not every consequence has to be instant and everlasting. Sometimes, things are just over with quickly or don’t come back to bite you until much later.
Yes, yes, cheating is always the woman’s fault, even if the guy’s the one in the relationship AND initiating the kiss, blah blah burn the witch. I mean bongo.
Well, Jacob certainly shares the blame here, but Joyce has been intentionally working on this for weeks now. She gets the lion’s share.
Now now, we haven’t seen how the relationship plays out. My money is on another “Joyce” coming along and our Joyce suddenly finding herself in raidah’s shoes
Honestly after the last conversation Raidah, Joyce, and Jacob had together… I think Jacob is doing this because that’s exactly how he sees Raidah got together. She did nothing but belittle and infantize his friend as well as belittle him for not being his brother.
Somewhere, Sarah is lurking and saying in a Darth Sidious-voice, “yes, I sense that my apprentice has been most successful in executing my will.”
Next comic, one of Raidah’s friends sees them kiss or something, and Raidah finds out in the short time span before Jacob officially breaks up with her.
Because on one hand I really ship Jacob and Joyce and want them to be a couple but on the other hand there needs to be some consequences for their actions here. This can’t go perfectly.
I see this going downhill really fast.
It so time. These people are young, they’re at university, away from home. No sex between Raidah and Jacob means no passion, so what’s really going on there? Can you really consider that a relationship? Obvs, there’s chemistry all over the place between J and J. As my moniker implies, I totally ship jake and Joyce. Just go for it.
No sex means…no sex. At this point Joyce isn’t likely to be having sex with Jacob either. In fact fairly tame making out might be enough to give her problems given how she was raised.
I mean, if no sex truly means no passion, your ship might not be seaworthy.
See, I ship them too, but I don’t make up weird bullshit rules on what counts as a relationship or not in order to justify it.
There is no question that Jacob and Raidah were in a relationship. Similarly, Jason and Sal were not in a relationship. Jacob specifically respected Joyce upon meeting her because she wasn’t having sex. Specifically. Lack of sex is the foundation of their friendship.
So yeah. Chemistry they have. Your bullshit rules about marking people as property with post-coital juices are just that, though..
I understand your position, but I stand by my point. Any relationship I have been in that hasn’t had a fiery passion at it’s base has been doomed from the get go. Having a cool, calm, logical, well reasoned relationship at less than say, forty, is setting yourself up for….a situation like what’s being described here. You meet someone, they’ve obvs got that thing that’s missing. Better Jake sees that now. It was inevitable.
Hi! Asexual person here popping in to remind you that we exist!
So, this is something I’ve learned over my 37 years of life.
A lot of people on this planet are not you. A lot of people on this planet are not me.
If your statement is “I just couldn’t be in a relationship without sex, it doesn’t work for me,” 100% fine, go you.
If you want to say no sex means no relationship, no sex means no passion, no sex means it’s not actually a thing…you’re wrong.
Eh. When I was 30 I had to reassure my husband that I still found him incredibly sexy, but the 8 months of HG when my weight was plummeting while our unborn child would try to stretch my ribcage to get more room made *me* feel incredibly unsexy and really not in the mood. She turned 5 yesterday, and I just have morning sickness with our 3rd (I just had normal morning sickness with number 2 too – it still lasted all the way through, but I didn’t get admitted to hospital for vomming literal buckets of blood so yay).
We’ve gone through patches where we went months at a time between getting it on. As well as 2.4 kids helping with exhaustion, I have an autoimmune condition and 2 chronic pain conditions. We’ve had rocky patches when again we didn’t get busy much. We’ve been together nearly 15 years…
I love him, I fancy him, these things are mutual and for the most part we’re happy together – but our relationship is not defined by the quantity of nooky we get.
In early college I was terrified of all things sexual. My college boyfriend and I dated for a YEAR before we tried PIV penetration. We were absolutely a relationship, and in love, and we smooched and snuggled and told stories, and nobody else got to decide what was right for us.
Joyce and Jacob do not need to jump into bed to have something very meaningful to them.
1) “No sex” isn’t entirely clear. At best.
b) My first college relationship had plenty of passion, but, depending on where you draw the line, was without sex for around the first year. It was serious. It counted.
III) I do think there’s more chemistry between Jacob and Joyce than there was with him and Raidah, so if that’s what you’re trying to say, there’s something of a point there. OTOH, it’s unlikely Joyce will be having sex right away (and will likely be horribly guilty and conflicted when she does) so I guess that’s not going to count for awhile yet anyway?
Thank goodness I’m 48. Makes me old enough to know that passion and sex aren’t really that linked. My 22 year relationship, including the last decade where I’ve had sex less often than I’ve had birthdays, demonstrates that.
I’ve always been of the opinion that you DON’T enter into a new relationship before ending the old one. But i’m not Fundamentalist about it, because I also have experienced what it’s like to be involved with one person, but then realize that you’ve “Gone Stupid” over someone else. Love is brain chemicals and hormones going bibbledy in your brain, and no one can rationally predict what they will do when “under the influence.”
So I’ll cut him some slack, assuming he does in fact immediately break up with Raidah.
So if no sex= nothing lost…can’t wait for Jacob to dump Joyce for the next piece of ass, because like hell Joyce is going to be down for premarital hanky panky??
Discarding women on the grounds of “she won’t fuck me” is totally fine, right?
/S
In case it wasn’t obvious.
I’m replying to “I ship Joyce and Jacobs” thought that a relationship without sex isn’t a relationship for the record, I don’t agree with them in the slightest, just thought I’d clarify
No worries. I was playing along with your comment..
I WANTED TO MAKE SURE! Didn’t wanna make somebody feel bad over that sorta stuff!
She wouldn’t be the first to forget that intention after some making out and foreplay.
Okay so just a fuck you to anyone in a relationship who’s asexual, suffers from sexual trauma, has physical issues that makes sex difficult and painful, or just generally isn’t interested in sex. Got it.
Yeah. There’s more on heaven and earth than exists within this philosophy.
Now, that’s a fantastic quote.
PREMARITAL HANKY-PANKY!
Yes I remember.
I don’t see the big hooha about Jacob kissing Joyce 30 seconds before he breaks up with Raidah. The decision is made, and it’s not like they’re sneaking around. Jacob is dropping the ax right now. He’s not kissing Raidah again. Nuts to Raidah.
I agree, but some of these readers have their own idea about perfect relationship justice that disallows the kiss before the break-up.
Those readers need to grow up.
Those readers are about as real as Dr. Ivo “Eggman” Robotnik.
I’m on your team. I was angry with Jacob for emotionnally cheating, but as long as he DOES break up with Raidah within the next 10 minutes, the kiss doesn’t really change anything.
I guess we’re just divided along the lines of “is physical or emotional cheating more harmful?”. I’m definitely “sex != love”, so I’m actually MORE ok with Jacob now (that’s provisional, he needs to go see Raidah right this instant and remove her from the public place before breaking up) than when he was all “yeah Im just pretend playing” when he obvisouly wasnt.
However I think it’s unfair to tell people who feel otherwise to “grow up”. It’s perfectly valid to consider that touching is a boundary.
Now none of this is relevant to the case at hand because we do not know what the rules are in Raidah and Jacob’s couple. Ex-couple. Future ex-couple.
Well, it’s pretty clear that the rules don’t include what’s going on here. That’s why Jacob’s all like “I have to break up with Raidah.”
And I’d say it’s more like “every step of escalation” is more harmful and the kissing is an escalation since it makes it more clear the “pretend” wasn’t.
Yeah, what SillyGoose says!
Yeah,s illy readers, thinking cheating your girlfriend is wrong. When will we realize planning to end your relationship = actually doing so and so it’s totally fine to kiss someone else while you’re still in a monogamous relationship. Honouring your commitments is like…the least adult thing you can possibly do.
In my case, it’s more just that it’s one more step and the details of the formalities don’t matter much at this point. Doing what he’s already done is bad. Kissing is a step further, but breaking up with Raidah is a lot better than sticking with her and pretending this didn’t happen, so today’s strip is a net positive.
Assuming of course that he actually goes through with the break up in the immediate future.
I have my “Damn You, Willis”s all lined up just in case Jacob doesn’t break up with Raidah and starts dating them both at the same time.
Both Damn you Willis and Damn you, Jacob if this happens.
Unlikely – I don’t think Jacob is that sleazy, but it would be a nice counter to Joyce’s rom-com ending.
(Only sleazy of course if he’s doing it without knowledge and consent – which based on all the characterization we’ve seen of both Joyce and Raidah, he would be.)
I couldn’t see Jacob doing it to be sleazy, but I can see him feeling guilty and chickening out of breaking up with her and then not being sure how to tell Joyce what happened.
‘struth.
Agree 100%.
Ugggggghhh well okay. I shipped them before this story, I guess we’ll see what happens.
I have this suspicion we’re about to learn that Mrs. Brown has no problem with Joyce having black friends, but doesn’t want her daughter dating a black man.
She will have problems with Joyce smooching with an Episcopal Christian.
There are so many things I want to say right now I really can’t deside which should go first.
Things like “Hey!!!! Who told you it was OK to stop giving the baby a slide-ride??? Keep making baby laugh!”
Things like “Turns out Raidah deserved better all along.”
Things like “Jaaaaaacob!”
Things like “OMG, I ship it!”
Things like “The world really DOES work like Joyce wants it to.”
Things like “Happy Birthday Sarah.”
But most importantly: “WHO FRIGGIN’ CALLED IT??? I FRIGGIN’ CALLED IT!!!”
Let’s have a “WE CALLED IT!” party!
Glee and cheerfulness!
Celebration via appropriate physical displays such as dancing around the room!
…And then, because this is DoA written by DYW, I’ll go out on a limb with one more wild prediction: At some point Raidah joins, or at least helps, the Evil Dads League. And it’s at least partially effective, because she’s actually intelligent.
But meanwhile, WOO HOO! They got together! And I called it! We both called it! WOO HOO!
Who cares about GOOD?
The important thing is that we were RIGHT!
WHO CALLED IT?
WE CALLED IT!!!!
WHOO HOOO!
I’m really sad about BBCC’s computer, though 🙁
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-10/01-birthday-pursuit/harrison/#comment-1421740
Nah, once they made it clear Jacob was going along with this shit, I got ready. Still don’t think this storyline’s as wrapped up as Joyce wants it to be anyways and I have to read that. 😉
what are you talking about? Once they kiss they are at the “lived happily ever after stage,” right?
Because nothing bad will happen now, right?
Right?
Oh, sweetie…
fucking GO BREAK UP WITH HER FIRST IF YOU KNOW YOU’RE GOING TO, THIS IS SO UNNECESSARY
Is THIS how one obtains a boyfriend? I’ve been doing it wrong this whole time
If you are living in a romantic comedy universe, yes.
How do you know if you do? Because lemme tell ya, my life gets pretty romcommy at times…
Thanks I hate it
Well, I guess some people have been waiting for this for a long time. I speak, of course, of all those Chan and Char fans out there. Nice to see your favorites proven right, huh?
Holy!!
I put really low (but not zero) odds on this.
I hope Joyce can keep her feet under her and control the neuroticism (which will flare up and down, knowing her.)
If they team up they can compliment each other.
Maybe it all just ignites and falls apart, but maybe not.
Are their good vibes and dynamic a solid foundation, or is the slightly shady nature of how this went down the stronger factor?
Props to Jacob for recognizing his (imo, justified) iffy-ness on Raidah and realizing he needs to face that head on. Kissing Joyce is on some level burning the ships committing, crossing the Rubicon, and committing to that course. Plus I think he likes her 😉
Looks like God (or Willis) had a plan.
Okay, riddle me this. I completely agree that Jacob didn’t “cross too many boundaries” until *gestures broadly* whatever this is.
Should he have waited until he knew Joyce better? Is there any more Joyce to know better? Should he have broken up with Raidah whilst getting to know Joyce better?
Jacob should have waited to sort what was happening before smooching.
Now he will get Persona 5’s infamous/famous Valentine Day’s beatdown.
He doesn’t need to wait to know Joyce better to get into a relationship with her. I’m not going to tell people they’re living their relationship at the wrong speed. He SHOULD have broken up with Raidah near the start of this storyline, somewhere between “Hi Harrison” and “Yes, Joyce is my girlfriend.”
I think the boundaries were internal.
I also think that when he said “crossed boundaries” he was planning on kissing Joyce. He came to the realization, and the order in which he played things out coulda been better, coulda been worse.
Very relieved he said “I have to go break up with Raidah” before the kiss, obviously.
Wow. I am speechless. Either this ends up being a good romance, or becomes as volatile as any ship involving Amber and Dorothy. This comic is probably going to last 10 years more so we better prepare for more pain.
Jacob is doing the right thing here. People have been really upset, but I think this is a pretty natural progression. You’re dating someone, yes, but realizing you’re more into someone else and then cutting it off with your current partner is very normal.
What’s important and makes this ok is he’s not spending any significant amount of time going behind Raidah’s back. He realized he was into someone else and then immediately decided to cut it off with her. This is the right way to do.
You break up first and THEN kiss, not spend the whole day cheating on your girlfriend, kiss your new main squeeze and THEN break up with her.
I’m leaning more on the “too little too late, but at least you’re not being a complete asshole, just 35% asshole”. Jacob deserves a kicking for the bullshit he’s pulled in this story arc, and so does Joyce, but at least Jacob’s making vague motions towards not being a complete asshole.
You shoulda broken up with her *before* you kissed Joyce, you collosal butthole Jacob.
Jacob no! You’re tempting fate when Raidah is on the same floor!
Honestly, though. It’s like he doesn’t even realise he’s in a webcomic drenched in comedic inconvenience.
Oh damnit… I honestly felt Jacob should have broken up with Raidah if anything because he feels it’s over and realized that… but rushing up to kiss Joyce… damnit this will blow up on his face on the future… but then again this ain’t smarting of age…
I support this ship, but damn it Jacob you better go break up with Raidah right now.
Well so far this seems like the only positive plot development in this chapter.
I literally gasped when I saw the last panel.
oh
“And that’s all I could say, was oh.’ And she says ‘Now, there’s somethin’ else, that I really think you should know.’ “
Prediction: Jacob looks up from smooching a half-swooning Joyce to see Raidah. She is angry and vocal. Then a throat is cleared behind him and he turns around to see Harrison (Jaime forgot something so he came back) who wants to know what the hell was going on.
Either they play Raidah off as the crazy deluded lady and shennanigans continue, or the whole mess is revealed and Harrison is either unimpressed, or really impressed with his baby bro for fooling him…
I’m pretty sure that Raidah is going to make it her life’s mission to make Joyce as miserable as she has Sarah.
Are you suggesting that Raidah might possibly behave in a petty, vindictive manner? Why, that would be entirely shocking.
Most shocking.
It’s likely, but I kind of hope that’s not how this plays out. Or at least it isn’t the big negative consequence.
Because that just reinforces the “Raidah is a bad person. It’s good Jacob broke up with her. Joyce did a good thing.” rom-com narrative of this whole thing.
I think the negative consequence is the fact that some of Joyce’s friends won’t side with her.
And its quite possible that she will find out she’s dating someone sort of fickle and doesn’t officially dump you when he gets bored or frustrated with the reality of dating you until he has someone he thinks he likes more lined up.
Don’t feel like that is an entirely fair characterisation of Jacob tbh. Especially not after today’s comic.
“Immature and unsure about his own feelings and where to go in life” would be more like it imo. And none of those are irredeemable.
I think that sounds likely. Either that or she blames Sarah for this…
it’ll be interesting to see how Sarah takes this. on one hand she’ll be glad Raidah is sad, on the other hand I think she’ll be worried for Joyce
I can’t tell if it’s good that he realizes he fucked up and probably doesn’t like Raidah as much as he thought he did now that his brother has met Joyce and is going to break up with her or bad that he realized this after spending a day with someone who he found out really likes him after he thought she was just a friend.
sidenote: I think Joyce has the best bedroom eyes out of anyone in the cast.
I agree. She’s always got great expressions.
I mean, Joyce has the best expressive EYES, full stop.
That said, Danny comes close second.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-10/01-birthday-pursuit/hotsecond/
It might be because her eyes are a) GIGUNDUS and b) an actual color. I tend to really enjoy Ruth’s expressions also, and she’s got the same style of eyes.
And thus her evil plan comes to (very hot) fruition
Expect maximum Joyce self-criticism and guilt for the next few chapters.
WORTH IT
This is gonna be a really fantastic couple of minutes.
Jacob used SUPRISE KISS!
It’s Super Effective!
Joyce fainted.
Me @Jacob in Panel 3: Good
Me @Jacob in Panel 5: *sigh*
Belatedly understood that Joyce was cut off in the middle of the word “kiss” which makes panel 5 less disappointing somehow?
Anyway, I’ll be here with the popcorn, wondering how Joe and Sarah are doing.
Happy escalating birthday, Sarah.
WHOA.
That went from 100 to putting a brick on the accelerator.
Welp. Better get to the bunker so I can ride this out.
Huh. Was not expecting this outcome, this fast. Kinda see where the “sitcom shenanigans” guys are coming from now with their cry for consequences. Still, plenty of room in the future for fallout.
I didn’t expect this. At all. And ‘too many lines crossed’ is a bad excuse for ‘realized I don’t want to be with her’. If he wanted to be with Raidah, he could still try to work through the mess, fact is he just doesn’t.
But also: Thank goddess he is leaving his manipulative perfect lawyer-to-be girlfriend.
And please, Jacob, don’t break up with Raidah in the middle of the lobby where a lot of people can watch. Being broken up with is bad enough on the self-esteam without it being a public spectacle. Given she is all dressed-up for meeting Harrison, the embarrassment is maximized.
But it’s Sarah’s birthday.
I’m surprised, but not too surprised.
Guys. No. Please. No kissing before breaking up with other girlfriend. Please.
No, you see it’s okay and totally not cheating since Jacob said he’ll break up with his actual girlfriend. Soon. Eventually. In a minute. After the kissing is done. And if you don’t like it, that makes you a Puritan.
Jacob you imbecile, you DON’T kiss people you’re not officially with if you’re officially with someone else, come on, I was with you up until this point, that’s a bunch of bullshit.
But sitting with your arm around them and pretending they’re your girlfriend to the family your actual girlfriend wanted to meet is just fine?
To me, it’s not so much a bright line as an escalation.
they’re smashing FAAAAAAAAACE ~<3
Well, that was quick.
Am I the only one who thinks this is really going to hurt Sarah?
Like I know she pitted Joyce to Jacob so Raidah couldn’t have him but that’s after she believed she ruined things. She always got super shy around him that it just feels like she really had a thing for him but didn’t know how to express it (Sarah’s awkward with everything but sarcasm and dourness) or told herself getting invested would ruin things (which is why she doesn’t want to be choose to anyone) and that she’d be fine with just boinking 2-3 times. And it’s totally normal to wanna boink and still feel romantic notions (I mean look at Joyce!)
And Jacob isn’t blind, he said Joyce would someday succumb and suck a thousand dicks after all her repression … guess his may be the first? 🤣
Still I feel like this is necessary – I ship Joe and Joyce and Joe already regressed so I need Joyce to make bad decisions too before they couple up *crosses fingers* I just don’t want Jacob/Joyce to be long-winded. I don’t want this to ruin Sarah and Joyce’s sisterly bond either.
Angry Raidah will be fun though. YOU LOST TO THAT CHILD, CHICK
“And Jacob isn’t blind, he said Joyce would someday succumb and suck a thousand dicks after all her repression … guess his may be the first?”
Ruth said that, not Jacob
Nah, it was Jacob.
Please let this fucking link work.
Ruth said she’d pratfall into an orgasm and bang half the town.
Sarah releasing forces she can’t control and being hurt by the consequences? Especially since her mean spirited plan focuses on Joye, the one, consistant achilles heel to her prickly defence mechanism?
I can’t see that ever happening. Everything will obviously work out great and the next two hundred strips or so will feature Becky and Dina on a museum date where the only drama comes from Dina picking a fight with the tour guide over some dinosaur lore nitpick.
Will Dina and Becky hold hands?
OF COURSE till will hold hands.
They might even smooch
Not just Sarah, Becky, too.
Even if she has a girlfriend now, even if she was in on the plan to push Joyce and Jacob together, it’s going to be no fun seeing the person you’ve had a crush on for years suddenly smooching someone else.
*sustained scream of NO!”
Do not pull a Tom Sloane, break up with the girl first. FIRST
Huh
Whelp that went sideways quick.
Sarah will be estatic and not. Estatic for the breakup
less so for the other
Agh, that’s too messed up in way too many ways
Also. I half expect this to be in Joyce’s head.
I feel like she would react more from that kiss.. in a flailing sorta panic way
Give her a couple of seconds, and I guarantee she’s gonna have some kinda thing to say. This is a common enough response in fiction, the automatic “Mmm”, followed immediately by the “real” reaction.
I’m assuming it’s because getting kissed is generally a very pleasant sensation, especially if the recipient is into the one doing the kissing.
OH SHIT
*Emits Noise*
Your Lillian grav is appropriate for this situation.
All this happened because of Joyce’s baby smelling nose.
Given how conservative her mother is, I suspect she would be less than pleased with this development. And she would twist herself into knots trying to find an acceptable way to say it 🙂
She’s tie herself in knots if Joyce were in the room, but as soon as Carol had Jacob alone I’m expecting a repeat of “Can you really be sure you’re a lesbian, and is it worth your father being in prison?”
Okay, if Carol said something like “Can you really be sure you’re a black guy?”, I would probably die of laughter. Most of the other stuff she could say is much less amusing.
I mean, she’d still be adding “and is your father in prison” at the end either way, I’m sure. 😛
Interesting encounters 3: Meet the parents.
i want to squeal like im reading manga but i shall contain myself! i literally thought 2 days ago, i wonder how long until they spontaneously kiss? thank you for my answer
yaaay
DID NOT SEE THAT COMING
Neither did Sarah, which is probably watching that (seeing we know Raidah isn’t)
…or at least I think she’s still too far to see it. Unless she saw them as they headed away and followed. Either way, popcorn tiiime
What? Sarah 100% saw it coming, it was literally her plan in the first place.
A lot of readers seem to have forgotten that Sarah gave up on Jacob and instead planned to get him with Joyce.
Well I mean, that’s what Sarah say, but we all know she’ll be shocked that it actually happened
YESSS!!!
I still think it would be really funny if, when Jacob finally breaks up with Raidah, she is super casual about the whole thing. “Oh? Well, glad I didn’t loose more time on you than I did then. See you never, enjoy the new girl.”
I fully expect her spiel about not doing jealousy to be bullshit, so it would be funny if she was completely sincere.
I think that the boundary that Jacob crossed was to feel for Joyce what he’s never felt for Raidah. I think that Raidah has been a good study partner, drill sergeant and organiser but they’ve never gone beyond that emotionally. It’s possible that they were okay with that – that they were planning to be allies to get what they both wanted out of life. However, now Jacob has decided that he wants more.
As for Joyce? From this point onwards, I expect her dominant mindset towards her boyfriend to be confusion. She has no idea how things got to this point and she has even less idea where things are supposed to go from here!
Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ^^
HOORAY!!!! Now they are totally doomed! And maybe Shara is watching them and is sad thinking that it’s all her fault that her friend is in this messy situation.
Sooooo… Radiah has won, then?
SARAH! I meant to say Sarah.
Ohhh, I was confused about how this was winning for Raidah.
Raidah wins because she gets to drive away IN A BRAND NEW CAR!
Sick!
Thank you Jacob. I’ve never understood people who cheat. If you want to be with someone else, then either break up with the person you’re with immediately, or cut that shit right out and don’t cheat. If you cheat on your SO, you suck as a human being. No, there is no good reason and no extenuating circumstance that makes it okay.
100% with you there. Seems so stupid to me.
This much cheating I can understand. It’s not planned. It’s spontaneous. You’re reacting to emotions.
It’s uncool, but it’s not nearly the level you hit when you go back to your SO and lie about it and hide that you did something and then go back and do it again.
I can’t believe it actually worked.
Great callback. Watching Joe be right is a bit disorienting.
DEEEEEEEEYUUUUUUUUUUUMMMM HOLY SHIT I DID NOT SEE THAT HAPPENING THAT FAST
Well, at least your only ruining one house.
That he knows this goes a long way to redeeming Jacob. Joyce, not sure yet. The fact that this shows he was at least on board with the deception means it was not as “unfair” as she thought it was.
Now to find out how this fucks up her and Sarah’s relationship.
I think with Sarah feeling bad about just lusting after Jacob’s butt plus her meddling on purpose, she might think “well I set this up” and accept it
lol, this was Sarah’s ENDGAME, it’s not going to screw up that relationship. It’s gonna screw up her and Joe’s.
Throughout this whole arc I’ve been convinced that there is some sort of consequence for Joyce where she learns an important life lesson. I had completely forgotten about Joe. Now I wonder if that consequence is a poisoning of her relationship with Joe. Their friendship as it is already has a bunch of pain points but I think they both really care about the other. I can see Joyce being angry and defensive to Joe’s criticisms and yet agonizing over them just the same.
Joe is the cast’s resident “anti-cheater”, there’s no way this isn’t going to have blowback between them.
Ok, didn’t really expect Jacob to go all in like this. but ok then.
Well snap.
today’s been pretty bad (it’s only 10:30 in the morning oof) but the drama and resulting whiplash from this and the last strip have revived me lmfaoooo
“You chose…wisely.”
…Or at least as wise as you can get in this comic. Now, go actually do it instead of sit there making out. You can do that after Harrison leaves.
HAHAHHA!
“She doesn’t get rewarded.” “This isn’t that kind of story.”
I knew that attitude was bullshit when the OP posted that but didn’t want to get into an internet back and forth. So glad to be redeemed so early.
Story isn’t over yet.
You mean vindicated.
It’s happening!!!!
I’m worried about Raidah’s reaction. I know she’s a bad enemy to make.
What’s the worst she can do? The most I can remember is her being an asshole in public and trying to turn Sarah’s friends against her. That wasn’t even slightly effective, either.
Admittedly, she also harassed Sarah for a year by making snide comments in the lunch room (such as the lovely gem “I hope you choke”) and likely spread rumors about what a ‘killjoy’ and ‘terrible friend’ Sarah is, effectively isolating her. Like there are worse things to do, but I still think those are some pretty shitty things to do to someone.
And yet I do still feel bad for Raidah and how she’s being treated by Jacob here.
Organize a multi-person, year-long campaign of harassment so her enemy can’t even eat in public without getting crapped on? Because that is literally the first thing we see her doing in her introductory strip.
And that’s not to say that I think Raidah deserves what Joyce and especially Jacob are doing to her here, or that her standard strategy would be as effective against Joyce, who has the protection of an established friend group, as it was against Sarah, whose bullies were her friend group, but still. I wouldn’t underestimate her.
She can take the Amber/Amazi-Girl route and become the Vespavenger from Questionable Content.
https://questionablecontent.fandom.com/wiki/Vespavenger
Does anyone else agree with the following statement:
“It’s about freaking time!”
Poor Raidah.
I hate this and I hate that this worked
Yeah I just don’t see how Jacob has had issues with “jealous” and “clingy” ex-girlfriends in the past.
So it would appear that manipulative little Jamie was successful maneuvering Joyce.
Lot of people in here who are mad about this and tbh it confuses the heck out of me. This is what you’re SUPPOSED to do when you realize that you are actually in love with someone else instead of cheating on your existing partner.
Also, Raidah sucks. SITO 🤷🏻♂️
“instead of cheating on your existing partner”
He literally just cheated on her, since he didn’t break up with her before the kiss. Moreover, breaking up to hook up with someone else is absolutely toxic behavior. Ideally, you’d give it a couple of months, so as to insult and hurt your ex. Since people are impatient, at least give it a few weeks. Even in a mutually agreed break-up, a few weeks time is appropriate, if you don’t want to be rude. Else you’re diminishing the relationship to something easily replaced. But to break up just to hook up with someone else? That takes things to the level of spitting in their face.
If you’re a petty person, and the relationship was a troubled one to start with, you can at least try and justify the behavior. But Raidah hasn’t done anything wrong [as relates to her relationship] (that we know of), no matter how much you dislike her. This is just immature and callous behavior on the part of Jacob. All he’s doing here is proving he’s neither ready for meaningful relationships, nor capable of acting in a non-impulsive manner.
Typo fix:
*so as to not insult and hurt your ex.
dude, that’s a ridiculously legalistic way to go about your morality.
joyce was expressing remorse, and offering jacob a way ought. he clarified his position in a way that was fit and proper. cause you owe the future more than you do the past.
Jacob can clarify with words, instead of kissing Joyce while he’s still got a commitment to Raidah. This is cheating on her.
That said, I don’t think it’s really that bad to break up with someone because you’re interested in someone else. It’s miles better than cheating on them, JACOB.
While I agree that cheating is shitty in principle, I don’t think that one kiss before the break-up rather than, say 5 hours later, actually makes a difference.
“While I agree that cheating is shitty in principle, I don’t think that one kiss before the break-up rather than, say 5 hours later, actually makes a difference.”
No, I don’t especially disagree either. That I was only bringing up for the sake of clarifying that he did, in fact, “cheat” on her, as such is usually determined. ie, “engaging in inherently intimate, especially physically intimate behaviors while in a relationship with someone else”, of which romantic kissing is usually considered to count.
Well, I’m asexual and autistic, myself, so my view on such matters is pretty technical, so I don’t actually see much difference between kissing and sex, as the sentiment is fairly similar. My reason for not disagreeing with your perspective ties to what I laid out above: If it’s going to be toxic to move on immediately after a break-up, then clearly it’s going to be just as (or more) toxic to move on before the break-up.
So, from whatever perspective, it’s fundamentally still shitty behavior.
But yeah, as far as “Cheating” is determined as a social concept, I’m under the impression that this would qualify, while waiting some hours later to be “officially broken up” would not.
Cheating is more about double-timing or testing the waters. Not as much about giving the other a chance to change one’s decision. I don’t see Jacob’s action here as intended to go behind Raidah’s back: the actual cheat was actually going along with Joyce and probably hoping it would escape discovery. At that point of time, he clearly was not intending to break up with Raidah.
And I do think that he also needs to spill the beans to Harrison to stop his brother being proud of him for the wrong reasons.
He has a wagonload of shit coming for him. And Joyce is to blame for a considerable size of it. She basically gave him a “we’ll bury this shit I got you into as well as possible” and this is his “no, won’t do”. It would be fair for them to split responsibility, with Jacob breaking it to Raidah (where he is most responsible for the mess) and Joyce to Harrison.
Cheating is when you intentionally engage in any sort of romantic/sexual act with someone who is not your partner when you are in a monogamous relationship. Jacob is in a relationship with Raidah. He has a commitment to not be smooching other people. He needs to end that commitment (or modify it – polyamory is a thing) before he can ethically smooch someone else. Being ready to end it is not the same as actually ending it. That’s why I disagree here and with David’s assertion it’s only cheating if you intend to double time – no. He’s cheating already.
Technically correct is different from correct and all that…
I really don’t think this matters in any way to the relationships between Joyce, Jacob and Raidah, and how those are going to develop further on.
Clearly it doesn’t matter to Joyce or Jacob. Cool. It matters to me and I think it’s a shitty thing to do.
More relevantly, I and others I know have been in the position of Raidah, and we’ve all had the same opinion that it was a shitty thing to do, since it was making a point of dismissing the worth of our relationships, many of which had been going for quite a few years.
It really doesn’t take much effort to talk with the other party and at least acknowledge the connection that has existed up until that point, even if you don’t intend to on maintaining the friendship moving forward.
This is either going out of the way to hurt the other party, or just not caring enough about the other party to begin with, to give their feelings any real consideration. Sure, it may not matter to [Jacob] if [he] is already going to throw the relationship [with Raidah] away, but it still likely’ll matter to [Raidah]. The same as it did to all of us here in real life with similar circumstances to deal with.
Seriously, giving a bare minimum of respect to others isn’t all that hard, and really shouldn’t be such a surprise to expect towards someone you’ve been trying to build a long-term partnership with, especially over several years.
I mean, just how hard is it to “keep it in your pants” that you can’t resist getting physically intimate with someone whenever the impulse strikes you, even when you know it’s inappropriate behavior?
well said
my “well said” response was intended for “ego” not “BBCC”.
“cause you owe the future more than you do the past.”
Wow. Going off that, you have absolutely no loyalty to anyone at all, huh?
I’m not taking a pot-shot, here, that’s sincerely the only way I can interpret that, within the context. Especially given that you’re arguing that intentionally hurting someone [or at least, hurting them more] who you have an obligation to and who hasn’t done anything negative to you is worth it, just to save a few moments of time. Just..
Really, I can’t begin to comprehend the perspectives you just presented.
how the hell is breaking up with someone because you’ve realised you like someone else more “toxic behaviour”????? Why should you have to WAIT to get with someone you like? Like, it sucks when you’re the other person but you should NOT expect to put your own happiness to the side for someone’s “feelings”. Life’s too short for that.
This is on the assumption you’re doing things correctly, of course, not in the… weird and problematic way that’s gone out here (although I don’t agree kissing someone right before you intend to break up with someone is cheating… I’m talking about everything ELSE). Break up with them, don’t cheat.
“how the hell is breaking up with someone because you’ve realised you like someone else more “toxic behaviour”????? [etc]”
I’m a bit unclear as to the intent of your argument (as “Break up with them, don’t cheat.” is pretty much the sum of my previous post), so..
Okay, this first section under the assumption you’ve misunderstood me:
Breaking up with someone isn’t toxic. But if you’re initiating the break-up without any warning, then it’s going to hurt the other party if you move on immediately afterward or are found to have been cheating before the break-up. Since that action will very likely “poison” your relationship, likely ruining any chance you may have had to remain friends after the break-up, it is very clearly toxic to the relationship (nevermind to the other party).
Again, the issue here is that you’re deliberately sabotaging your relationship with the other party for no reason other than impatience to get physical with someone else. Clearly, the breaking up and forming of relationships as best benefits yourself isn’t anything to feel ashamed of, as that’s the healthiest way to approach relationships (romantic or otherwise). By way of that, completely and decisively cutting off a toxic relationship is a pretty solid thing to do.
Behaving rudely towards someone who you’ve had a good relationship and who shares the same field as you and thereby may be encountered in future business, as with Raidah and Jacob, is- even if you ignore the emotional factors- pretty stupid behavior on Jacob’s part.
And this section under the assumption you haven’t:
I mean, even in this comic, even socially-impaired Walky understood it was skeezy to move on from Dorothy right away. This is something even socially-inept imaginary characters understand, and that is pretty standard in real life social expectations. I’m really not sure where the confusion comes in.
And “life is short, so it shouldn’t matter if you hurt someone else for no real reason” is just.. holy hell is that entiled and selfish and irrational and, most of all, flat out stupid. Why sabotage a relationship for no reason, just to save a few moments of time?
Again, if you’ve got a mutual break-up, you’ve got some leeway, but either way, if you plan to have any relationship with the individual after the breakup, you need to give their feelings some consideration. And if you don’t, you really need to acknowledge the fact that you few relationships in a deeply, profoundly insincere manner. Because, clearly, these people don’t inherently matter to you enough to want to keep around [as friends], nor are they even worth your time to treat with a bare minimum of civility (meaning you never respected them at all in the first place).
So yes, it’s inherently and deeply toxic, and it’s just unreasonable to argue otherwise. I mean, even you all who’ve commented in opposition to my statements have acknowledged that fact, by making excuses for the behavior rather than being able to justify it. That is to say, it *is* hurting the other person for no reason, no matter how you color it, and saying “but I’m more important” to justify it is pretty much the core of any toxic behavior. Ergo, you all’ve actually validated the sentiment, so..
Seriously, please give the way you approach relationships some deep consideration, and see whether you can’t approach them in a more sincere manner. I’m not sure anyone deserves the kind of sentiment that has been expressed within these comments.
Now, sure. As I’ve already noted, if you’ve mitigating circumstances then there’s also leeway. If the relationship is toxic, if you’re dying, whatever, that may at least give you an excuse for rushing, even if it won’t magically prevented the other party from still being hurt (though, in the case of a toxic relationship, perhaps that’d not only be justifiable but also cathartic).
Again, the issue here is going out of your way to throw away someone you thought was “quality” enough to date, like they’re worthless, and to go out of your way to alienate them. And, again, that’s not an issue if you view people as disposable and don’t respect people who aren’t immediately useful to you and feel non-romantic relationships don’t have any value. Which, again, is a toxic outlook (at least, as it relates to others; Though one could argue that the lost “social currency” can potentially make it self-toxic, as well).
Breaking up with someone because you’ve realised that someone else will make you happier isn’t toxic or rude, or “hurting them for no reason”. The reason is that they are no longer the person who makes you happiest. Sucks to be the other party, but it kinda sucks to be the other party in a breakup regardless unless you both want to break up. How is that “going out of your way” to be rude? It doesn’t mean that they’re worthless, it’s just not what YOU want anymore. And if they are upset enough that you moved on with someone else that they don’t want to even be friends with you anymore… that’s… kind of on them, not on you. Why do you have to suffer in being apart from someone who makes you happy because someone else is gonna be unhappy about it? You’ve already told them that you no longer want to be in a romantic relationship with them, you’re no longer in a romantic relationship with them, what happens in your romantic relationships no longer has anything to do with them. That’s… sort of the point of breaking up with them. An arbitrary time limit isn’t gonna make a breakup suck for them any less.
I know my post was a bit long, but I honestly don’t know if you’re completely avoiding the topic I brought up ’cause you skimmed, or because you just don’t want to acknowledge that there are ways of hurting someone in a breakup *more* and that the solution to such is rather simple, in simply having a bit of patience with things.
And if you think a few weeks without intimate physical contact with someone, despite still being able to see and interact with them every day, is “suffering”, then you may need to consider whether you qualify for the “nymphomaniac”/”sex addict”/etc label range or not.
In any case, all you’re arguing here is that not being considerate of someone else is OKAY, because they’ve been thrown away already to begin with.
If you’ve got a real justification, that somehow avoids the “this is likely to hurt someone else (more than they’d already be hurt otherwise) if you don’t already have an understanding on such matters” aspect, then go for it. But so far all you’ve really expressed is that you have low valuation of the people you have romantic relationships with, especially when they’ve stopped being immediately useful to you, and that you’re completely fine with burning bridges that could perhaps still be salvaged if you were willing to put in a modicum of effort.
Let me be clear:
This is not an argument of who is wrong or right. I am objectively in the “right”, as all I’m noting are distinct facts [eg, “this may hurt someone”]. The correct way to rebute this is by either taking a firm stand that you don’t feel such matters have worth, or by countering the determinations being made. It is not by stating that the determinations don’t matter because you don’t feel the matters have worth. That just gives the strong impression that you’re bad with relationships. As I just noted, if you’re willing to take a firm stand on not caring about others, then it becomes a subjective argument, and we’d simply have to settle on having contrary perspectives.
But so long as you seem to think you can justify your approach without acknowledging that it’s poor behavior based in selfishness and impatience and a lack of consideration for others, and you’re unable to clarify why it isn’t such things, then your argument becomes something else entirely.
Basically, it’s the difference between “I shot him because I don’t feel human life has value” and “I shot him because he’s black, and black people don’t have value”. One is a perspective based in your own valuations (however warped they may be), the other is based in devaluing outside elements without objective justification for such, in an attempt to justify your actions without accepting your internal perspectives [In the case of this example, that’d be “I have a stigma against black people and enjoy murdering people based on flimsy justifications.”].
I’m using that metaphor not to relate the severity of the two matters, but to note that the mindset in question can be rather problematic in any context, with some contexts being more severe than others.
Basically, be honest with yourself and own up to that perspective, or be logical in your arguments. Don’t just try to justify things with non-logical considerations for selfish reasons.
Your posts are just filled with “me”,”me”,”me” [well, “you”, technically].
All you have to do is say “I no longer care what happens to the other party in my current relationship when I find a better one to swap over to, because I feel focusing on my own happiness is so much more important than the needs of others that it doesn’t matter if I inflict additional, avoidable injuries on others on the path to getting what I want for myself”. You state it like that, and I simply can’t argue with you anymore (nor really respect you as a human anymore, but that’s another matter).
However, so long as you try to justify that breakups mean that it’s fine to hurt the other party more than you have to, then you have to provide actual supporting material for that perspective- something which you’ve thus far failed to do.
Relationships (romantic or otherwise) are based heavily in superficial gestures, and also in catering to base emotions. Intentional gestures, no matter how unproductive they may inherently be, have distinct value in appealing to those you’re interacting with. As they say, “it’s the thought that counts”. Or, rather, it’s the intent expressed within your actions.
There’s this pervasive social belief that romantic relationships are something absolute, something which transforms a friendship into a binary have/have-not state. That when a romantic relationship ends, it has to be permanent.
That destroys a lot of connections for no real reason. If that’s just the level you hold your friendships to, or if you don’t have friendships with those you have romantic relationships with, then that’s one thing. But if they’re still individuals you’d consider friends even while in a relationship with them, then the friendship could still potentially be salvaged even if the romantic relationship is not.
And the friendship- or, rather, any relationship- does require you to put in efforts to display your respect or affection to the other party. A bouquet of roses is the most absolutely meaningless gesture, inherently, but it can convey a certain sentiment. Clearly taking someone else’s feelings into account when you’re deliberately (no matter how reasonable such may be) hurting them, can go a long way in expressing that you still value the individual, and don’t view them as disposable.
Your posts, on the other hand, have made it rather clear that you view such individuals as disposable, as you’ve expressed no remorse for them getting hurt, no real consideration of their feelings, and even going so far as to blame them for not heartily accepting your selfish whims without expecting any similar considerations from you.
Again, what this all really breaks down to is:
Do you want to put in a bit of a gesture towards your romantic partners to show respect for them, to at least leave them with a somewhat better impression of the relationship, even if the friendship can’t be salvaged?
Or do you view relationships as disposable, and only value things which benefit yourself?
That’s it, that’s all that’s here. Own up to it, don’t, whatever.
Just don’t try and say that hurting others is unavoidable in circumstances where it clearly is avoidable. That’s just.. tasteless and crass.
A kiss is cheating. Wow, you Puritans are harsh.
@Chaucer59. I mean if you think “pretending that some other girl is my girlfriend in order to impress my older brother and crossing other boundary lines” isn’t cheating then, sure I guess.
Woah, slow down, I’m probably agnostic. Don’t assume everyone shares your religion.
A kiss is regarded as cheating in general, yes. Unless you discuss otherwise with your partner, kissing someone else is regarded as cheating.
By typical social interpretation, it is.
As far as how Raidah’ll interpret it, and as to how her feelings will be affected, it likely is.
Properly, “cheating” would require the intent to violate the trust of the relationship, by engaging in a behavior inappropriate to the expectations of the relationship, in a manner which slights the obligatations you have to the other party (more specifically, the obligations that have been established as far as conduct in regards to physical intimacy with others).
This is pretty blatantly cheating, as the intent, social expectation / typical definition, and effect on the other party would all interpret it as such.
Let’s put it another way: Fundamentally, Sex isn’t really all that special, sorry. Associating cheating with a specific physical act just devalues relationships entirely, making them a simple binary state associated with lust alone. What matters is the emotional intimacy and established trust, and that’s clearly getting violated here. Clearly, most people associate a huge amount of intimacy with sex, which is why it’s somewhat reasonable to hold it in high regard for such considerations. However, intimacy is in no way specific to that, and fundamentally, the strongest intimacy in a relationship will be non-physical (and thus strongly affected by any action which influences that state of trust).
Well, historically, the basis was likely in the risk of reproducing outside of the marriage, especially as it related to woman [who’ve always had a particularly brutal risk when it comes to any form of “cheating”]. Despite that someone reasonable (from a sociological viewpoint) perspective, cheating historically has always been associated with any form of intimacy. Men typically got free passes in most cultures, but women could face severe risks for even a glance or making casual contact. A passion-filled kiss is clearly crossing a line.
In modern society, the concept of cheating has become more gender-balanced and reasonable, with intent and actual intimacy being expected factors. Passionately kissing someone else clearly falls under that. In fact, I’ve never once until now heard anyone not consider that as cheating.
That all said, I believe legality (as it relates to divorces) would only consider sex as cheating [though I’m not especially familiar on that topic, so I may be mistaken], so you may some basis for your perspective.
However, as the subject I was covering relates solely to the emotional impact on the other party, it would definitively be cheating regardless (unless they were in an open relationship of some sort).
Ew, that’s a lot of typos.
Specifically:
especially as it related to women [who’ve always had a particularly brutal risk when it comes to any form of “cheating”]. Despite that somewhat
I think it’s cheating only in the loosest of sense in that Jacob has stated he’s breaking up with Raidah.
When you’ve made a commitment to not kiss someone else (which monogamous relationships are generally recognized as)? Yeah. Funny how that works.
And oooh, puritan came in late. Here’s your no-prize for being the first to bring it up.
Come on, do you really think the problem with this whole story ark is so mechanistic? That the prolem is literally Jacob kissing Raidah 5 mins BEFORE he breaks up with here?
I don’t think that’s the problem here, honestly.
That’s ONE of the problems. There are many, which is why the train has a lot of wagons.
It is one of the problems, yes. I don’t see an issue with expecting people to keep their commitments and to notify the relevant parties if they can’t or no longer want that commitment.
I mean, he’s literally doing it just because he’s too impatient to wait.
And that lack of patience is likely going to hurt someone else, and that’s something he’s likely aware of.
That’s a pretty self-evident character flaw, regardless of how you frame it.
He just said he’s breaking up with her.
Cool – he has yet to actually do so.
Now you KNOW the very next frame is Raidah walking in on Joyce’s first kiss.
(Pandemonium ensues)
Oh man.
I mean, I love Joyce and Jacob together — I was thinking as friends, but under different circumstances they would probably make a really great couple.
As it is, I bet this will end in some sort of trainwreck, and that makes me very sad.
Uh, this is a David Willis comic strip. How is anything not going to end in some sort of trainwreck?
Yeah, true. Still makes me sad.
Most trainwrecks are between two trains. I look forward to Willis making this a three-locomotive crash, minimum.
…….. wat.
“(O)_(O)”
Sarah is gonna kill her.
Sarah’s gonna have to stand in line behind Raidah.
Sarah and Raidah get into a fight about who gets to kill Joyce, and Joe appears to make some sexist joke about mud wrestling.
Somehow, Danny sleeps with Jacob in the aftermath.
EEEP
Oh. Oh well.
Thought. Didn’t see anyone else mentioning this, but after the Party…how’s Joyce going to handle the suddenness of being Kissed?
Tomorrow’s comic: Steve eating cereal.
Wait, wrong comic.
Yesss love these two XD
heyoooooooooo
birthday PURSUIT indeed
And then she snaps awake after daydreaming back in the cafeteria booth.
Damn… I just finished a hell night at work, realized I hadn’t read this before bed last night and came around to see this strip. That brightened my evening right up, though I have some fairly obvious issues with how this pairing got to this point.
Over 500 comments! I mean, I can’t say I’m surprised.
Show of hands. Who saw the last panel and just said “fuck!”
Give them time…
There’s no way the next strip isn’t Raidah walking over while they’re still kissing.
I’m conflicted about getting this comic on my birthday. Happy about the result, but Joyce deserves having her antics blow up in her face.
Squee.
While i’m happy for Joyce & Jacob (i think they’d make a good couple) i’m worried about the kind of message Joyce gets from this. The one she believed from the start “it’s not cheating if we were meant to be together“. I did want her to fall on her face with that, to learn the lesson that peoples’ choices matter and she can’t just overrule them…
but still it’s cute?
And that was the moment that Joyce’s lady bits exploded.
“That was nothing really I think you’re good”
*thinks fast*
“Uuuhhh WELL HOW ABOUT THIS!?”
You fear me