Guys, it’s obvious what happened, and it has nothing to do with teleportation, magic mushrooms, or folding space-time. Sarah borrowed a dinosaur hat from Dina and took it off between panels three and four, thereby becoming noticeable again.
I don’t get why everyone think of this whole thing as seriously threatening Jacob’s couple. This precise ridiculous TV-comic-version-head-alien-like gloating try from Sarah anchors in me the idea that she’s not putting any effort in breaking up Raidah. She didn’t even put much effort into seducing Jacob for herself.
If anything in Joyce can win Jacobs heart over Raidah, it’s her freshness and integrity, and to be honest, if it’s really integrity and freshness that interests Jacob, Raidah did it to herself with her lines here….
Trying to do something bad – that you know is bad, as Sarah has been shown to, in her moments of lucidity and conscience – is bad, whether you actually succeed or not. There’s a reason that “attempted ____” is a charge.
Attempted X is a charge basically in cases where the damages are so high that a court can’t expect the guilty party to simply pay those damages. At least, that’s what the book Law’s Order says.
It probably won’t do anything to their relationship apart from making Raidah more jealous which might add tension to their relationships. People here are more concerned that Sarah entertained the idea and followed through with it while ignoring Jacob’s agency and the imlact on him, and the fact that Joyce and Billie seemed to be completely okay with it.(though I suspect that Joyce may have a change of heart soon.) About the ridiculousness of Sarah’s gloating, this comic is very punchline-y, and it doesn’t have to be 100% realistic. If that was the case, it’d probably be a lot more boring
I think that Raidah doesn’t know Jacob as well as she thinks she does. Sure, he wants to make his family proud, but I’m pretty sure he doesn’t view their relationship in the cold-blooded terms that Raidah is relying on. I’d go so far as to suggest that Raidah’s response here would really distress him. He’s too genuine for that.
Well, you’re right. Sarah isn’t putting in a lot of effort towards breaking up Jacob and Raidah, nor is she putting a lot of effort towards launching the S/S Joycob. She doesn’t have to!
All she needed to do was point Joyce in Jacob’s general direction and let things happen naturally. So far her scheme is being a huge success.
Wow, that was good, nicely done. Now, I have to ask, did you just think of that, or have you been saving it for years, waiting for your chance to use it?
Given that this storyline is about Sarah trying to break up Raidah’s (apparently happy) relationship out of pure spite, I have to think you got those names backwards.
Uh, no? Because Raidah has been attacking Sarah for a year? That’s kinda been the whole reason Raidah’s been in the comic up until her relationship with Jacob was revealed.
Well, considering that Sarah already punched her, and then Raidah opted to finally leave her alone after Sarah apologized for it, I’d say she probably has?
I doubt she realizes how horrible she’d been, or that Sarah might still pursue a more subtle means of revenge
Did she really said she will leave her alone? I mean, I thought she just forgived Sarah for punching her. (And then still used it as example for Jacob to explain how toxic Sarah is).
She obviously still can’t stand Sarah, but the way she described it to Jacob made it sound like she had recognized that it was best for her to just stay away from Sarah, and she hasn’t approached Sarah since then.
Going up to Sarah and calling her trash at every opportunity definitely didn’t feel like she’d “cut Sarah out of her life” up until that point. She also didn’t even mention Sarah punching her at first, it only came up after Jacob pressed for more details about what happened.
I feel like the way she never tried to talk Jacob out of hanging out with Sarah also supports the idea that she’d called a cease-fire.
But she HAD tried to talk Jacob out of hanging out with Sarah! Just not as directly (and offensive) as when she tried with Dina. She is more subtle about it, but her actitud with Sarah is no different than before.
I mean, from Raidah’s perspective, Sarah is a grumpy misanthrope who callously betrayed their mutual friend who seemed to be doing well for her own personal gain, so of course she’d warn people about Sarah, because for her, becoming friends with Sarah is going to inevitably result in pain. In her mind she’s probably thinks she’s saving them from being hurt by Sarah. From her view leaving Sarah alone doesn’t include warning people about her because she feels that she’s obligated to warn people about the danger of friendship with Sarah.
Raidah doesn’t even consider Sarah a worthy opponent. Sarah’s there on scholarship and is therefore a peasant, destined to be as assistant to someone like Raidah. Born on at least second base and in contempt of those who have to work the count to even reach first.
Jacob is a prize that she deserves, not someone she actually cares about.
Refreshing to see someone who doesn’t let their eventual insecurities about their relationship govern their rationality. It’s such a worn out cliche in comics to have people doubt their partners to the point it makes you wonder why they’re a couple to begin with and I’m glad to see Raidah doesn’t fall into that cliche. Presuming she’s being genuine of course.
That’s a pretty generous reading, I’d argue. It’s not that Raidah thinks Jacob cares about her and is a decent person, just that he wouldn’t cheat with someone so far *beneath him*
Potato, potato but pronounced differently? She IS still avoiding that cliche of being insecure in her relationship, if only because she’s got a fucked up view of what is keeping her relationship safe. Her rationality is perfectly intact, she’s just coming from a bunch of horrible base assumptions.
I know Joyce’s personal reasons may not be the most “aspiring” or whatever, but it always ruffles my feathers when someone uses education majors like that.
While I agree with you, and there are many good people who get into education because they really want to be educators; there is some validity to that opinion. When I was in Uni, I encountered a surprising number of people who were in education because they couldn’t handle whatever their original major was, it was the backup major. And all I could think was: and these people are going to be teaching my kids? And the really scary part, the ones who couldn’t hack education went into physical education, which explains so much about some of the gym teachers I had inflicted on me.
…double yikes. I can’t really articulate why this “he needs me to be successful, he can’t do it on his own and no one else can fill the role I occupy” attitude bothers me, but it sure does. It’s kind of condescending towards Jacob while at the same time implying a kind of worrying codependency, I guess? Idk, Cerb will be able to words it out better than I can.
I just keep having thoughts so this thread is just gonna keep getting longer I guess
Does this imply she thinks Jacob doesn’t believe in angels? It’s just a bit of an odd comment to make given that he does seem to have sincerely held beliefs about this kind of thing.
Also, I guess that means she doesn’t believe in angels, which I guess is reasonable, but the angel Gabriel visiting Muhammad was like…a pretty big thing for the development of Islam. Though I guess her comments suggest that she just goes with a less literal interpretation of scripture compared to Joyce.
Yeah. And I guess there’s nothing specifically saying Jacob doesn’t take a metaphorical view of scripture, but I feel like that would’ve come up at some point, y’know?
Well, I couldn’t really see them on opposing sides once it was actually for the presidency…unless by the time that happens we’ve done away with this two-party system, which, at the rate of this comic…one can hope.
Then we maybe as well forget getting such a head executive. I mean federations can work other ways, isn’t it? So they could be both representative for a certain group of persons. But I’m rather sure I’d vote for Jacob over Dorothy as he seems to be trying to express what other thinks over what himself thinks, and she seems to give more some kind of benevolent ruler vibe to me. But anyway, it wouldn’t matter, because, you know, imperative and revocable mandates…
There’s kinda the biggest issue I’ve been going on and on about for effectively my entire adult life (and note I’m pushin’ ever closer to 40). So long as we stick to using a party system we’ll just keep getting more and more entrenched in the type of increasingly radicalized factionalization that has been the hallmark of the US political system across my entire life. The catch-22 is that we need to remove this system in order to fix the problems, yet also need to fix the problems in order to have any chance of electing officials who would do the requisite work to remove the system making the prospect a nonstarter unless all the existing major parties disintegrate concurrently.
Good luck. You’ll need a complete rewrite of the Constitution to do that.
Paradoxically, the best way would likely be to formalize the role of parties, as seen in some parliamentary systems. Give them formal roles and you can control them. Otherwise they’re an inevitable dominant part of any first past the post electoral system.
I thought the original intent of the U.S. system was that it was not supposed to be a party based system, it actually was supposed to be based on individual merit, not party affiliation?
As a project, and also as an object. It’s starting to seem as though Raidah no more wants Jacob for himself and as a life companion than Sarah does. Sarah wants to use Jacob for sex despite his disinclination. Joyce wants to use him as an instrument with with to inflict distress upon Raidah. And Raidah is starting to looks as though she wants him as a status symbol and as a stepping-stone to the yet-unexplained prestige of his family.
No, Joyce seems to genuinely want a partner for Sarah, Sarah is the one who wants to inflict distress on Raidah at any cost. But maybe soon Joyce’s intent will be changing?
Raidah’s doing the right things for the wrong reasons. Joyce is doing the wrong thing for the right reasons. Sarah’s the only one purely motivated by wrong here, and even then she’s right that Raidah doesn’t deserve Jacob if she views him as a trophy.
Even so…. Deliberately and surreptitiously breaking up Jacob’s relationship for Sarah’s gratification is not a righteous motivation or the act of a nice person.
I think the basis for her comment is more that she is the kind of partner his family would have picked out for him, while they’ll disapprove of Joyce because she’s not the Right Kind Of Person.
It also reminds me of when Jacob said that Raidah checks all the boxes on his matching list.
It very much seems like both of them are getting into a seemingly romantic relationship for very much non-romantic reasons. Neither of them seem to think of the other as an actual person, but instead someone who simply -must- be right for them because they possess the qualities desired; rather than just being “Oh hey, I think I like you.” “Yeah, turns out I like you too.”
And considering that even Dorothy is with Walky simply because she fell for him and started caring for him, it really makes this relationship seem cold and sterile in comparison.
yeah… it’s almost like this relationship is a facade to keep them “off the market” and focused on their grades. kinda like someone pretending to be a lesbian’s “boyfriend” to protect them from homophobic parents? o.0
Well, we don’t know how romantic (physically demonstrative variant) Jacob/Raidah are. I was wondering with yesterday’s strip how much fooling around* they do. Jacob’s previous opionions expressed about sex makes me think he’s joined with Raidah after both agreeing that that wasn’t to be a big part of things for them right now.
But how little of their relationship is it at all? Have we even seen them kiss? I want to find out more of what they see in each other, and if Joyce is a disruptor because she’s so different emotionally from Raidah.
Very much this! Their relationships seems to be about what they are supposed to want and the expectations of others, not about who they really are underneath that baggage. It seems like the facade is already starting to break down a little for Jacob. We are getting glimpses underneath that of what he might really desire in a relationship deep in his heart. And Joyce seems to be a good fit for that.
Cerb is awesome and she will undoubtedly have the most perceptive take on this.
What strikes me is that Raidah is certain that she knows what Jacob wants, and that she knows what Jacob needs to achieve his goals, and that she is also certain that he needs her to achieve all that. Red flags, anyone?
In my mind, Cerb is basically a young Granny Weatherwax minus… I’m not sure what word I want to use. The bitterness? But Esme’s not so much bitter as.. cranky? Hrn.
She’s an education major with the idea basically being that it will make it easier for her to homeschool her own kids. I’d really be interested in seeing her reflect on her choice of major at this point in the comic.
She’s always been an education major. It’s a popular choice (even today) for women who are going to school to find a husband; it’s a throw-back to the days when women were expected to stop teaching school once they got married. The (expected) benefit of that is the woman is (theoretically) better able to homeschool her children if their family deems the public school unfit and private schools are too expensive or belong to a different denomination.
An education major makes it easier to get approved as a homeschool teacher, is probably why she’s going for it. She doesn’t actually have to declare it yet, though, and has plenty of time to change towards fighter piloting and mac n’ cheese studies.
I mean, it probably is declared for her. Generally you’re asked your major pretty early on, like at least by orientation. And you can say undeclared, but it seems like Joyce had enough of an impression of the “right” major for her that she would have declared it, though she still has plenty of time to change.
See, this might be a State thing, or “private vs public” education thing, but I have never heard of anyone being required to declare their major at orientation. I was required to declare my major sometime within the second semester of sophomore year, and was expected to have no clue about my major during freshman year. That being said, I was a scholarship student in California, so maybe things are different elsewhere.
Yeah, I kind of assume my school’s approach would be similar to IU’s approach, since they’re both large, public colleges in the Midwest. But it was absolutely expected you have some idea what major you were going into by the time you started college. As for how common that is, I’m pretty sure everyone I knew had some kind of declared major freshman year as well. That’s not to say it can’t change, and it often does, but there’s a lot of pressure to pick something. Plus, I mean, I was taking classes to fulfill major-specific requirements by my freshman year, so I needed to have a major in mind.
Huh! My school was closer to Rukdug’s experience. We had a sorta tentative unofficial major for freshman year that nobody expected us to keep, then we actually declared mid-sophomore year. But not all schools do it that way — I stand corrected.
That would have been so much more useful. We got our academic advisors assigned at random until we declared our major, so sometimes we would have taken classes that were not needed or missed ones that were because of that.
Hopefully when she evolves a bit more she’ll opt to teach in an actual school when the time comes. Her reasons gor picking the major are icky but it does seem like a suitable major for her. She seems like she’d be a good teacher. I could easily picture her as world’s best kindergarten teacher.
I’m starting to lose focus on Sarah’s plan with that grin. Wasn’t the plan to get Jacob attracted to her? Or has it turned into a general “If Raidah ain’t happy than I’m happy” arrangement?
At this point, Joyce is the only one even nominally trying to get Jacob and Sarah together. Sarah just wants to have him dump Raidah (that’s been her desire since the party), Becky seems to want to hook him up with Joyce (which is also Sarah’s main tactic for breaking up him and Raidah, but the actual hookup is incidental as long as he dumps R).
It was until she realized what they wanted was not compatible. I think Sarah is telling herself that if he ends up with Joyce it won’t be as bad as if she used him for a one night stand and to hurt Raidah.
So, in other words, Raidah – you (like Joyce) went to school to find a husband, but you expect yours to be wealthy and successful as well as good-looking.
Yeah, Joyce’s no threat at all.
Especially since Joyce has a nice rack but doesn’t have a bongo attached to the back of it. :p
I’ve got to say it’s weird hanging around dog people. A friend of mine is a dog breeder and when she has her friends from there around, it’s weird to have this nice older ladies talking about bongos every other sentence.
Even when I know what they mean.
I mean, you’re apparently a practicing Muslim, Raidah, so I’m pretty sure that at least on some level, you think angels are real too. As does Jacob, for that matter.
We don’t know yet how devout Raidah is, or what parts of Islam she might have problems with. Other than that goes to Friday services, and she doesn’t wear a hijab, we don’t know much else about her personal practices.
Doublethink about religion is very common. A great many people manage to consider themselves worthy and observant adherents of traditional religions by steadfastly refusing to think about substantial portions of those religions’ canonical beliefs. Even the Bible-thumpers who insist that homosexuality must be condemned because of Leviticus 18:22 don’t support conducting homicide investigations according to the procedure set out in Deuteronomy 21:1–5.
I am sorry to tell you that there are people who at least say they want the right to do that, and to their children they say it. But I don’t know of anyone who wants to kill a perfectly good heifer instead of investigating each murder.
It’s not even necessarily double think. Different denominations have very different canonical beliefs. Different traditions, different interpretations and understandings.
It’s kind of fun to poke fun at the Biblical literalists for not actually taking the Bible literally, but that’s by way of pointing out they’re not really literalists (As if there’s any way to read a complex millenia old text written over generations from multiple viewpoints “literally”, but I digress.) Most denominations don’t even claim to be literalists.
Going into a religiously-themed community center on a set schedule =/= actually believing there’s a magic man in the sky.
Cultural practice of religion does not preclude one from being a stalwart atheist with a sense of smug superiority that appears to be Raidah’s natural state.
Nor does actual religious faith conflict preclude the smug sense of superiority. Even a smug sense of superiority over someone else’s more literal and simplistic faith.
Think of all the old missionaries clutching their crucifixes while laughing at the natives idol worship.
Yeah, I guess I just have more personal experience with smug atheists -_- I think at one point I started identifying as a Christian (and not ‘vague wobbly shrug’) just to spite the guy who came to a lecture at our school. Just for no other reason than ‘fuck that guy personally’
Agreed… I mean, honestly, for a ton of people, your religion is just who you are, not necessarily what you believe. Mosque is just something you go to on Friday, you know? And especially when you consider the college environment, when a ton of people already are throwing aside their old faiths bit by bit.
It’s clear that in this context, Raidah is meaning Joyce’s belief in angels as a derogatory comment, part of her being a “ditzy Education major.” Like, ‘you’re so out-of-touch you believe in magic invisible people with wings’.
Raidah is really two-faced. She appears nice and polite all the time – to Jacob, to Billie, to Sarah at first. But her ‘elevator speech’ with Jacob, I think, is the closest we’ve ever seen to her true self. She’s completely assured of her own superiority. I’ve known a bunch of people like that – people who could never see their own faults, were full of themselves, and acted nice and kind not because they were nice and kind people, but because *that’s what good people do*. But being convinced of your own superiority means that you’re also convinced of others’ inferiority to you, and Raidah is shaping up to be, at heart, petty and manipulative.
They did it because it means they’re a good person and thus superior. They’re not actually nice and kind. They’re simply pretending to be, because by acting that way they are above others.
What was the philosophy again? For a selfish person to survive in an altruistic society, they must convince themselves they’re altruistic?
There’s a difference because it’s about -yourself looking good-, not actually taking other people’s feelings about consideration. The only feeling that interests you is how they feel about -you-, not their actual wellbeing.
‘Doing what a good person would do’ is a good guideline when you’re trying to be good to other people but because of empathy deficiency have no intuitive idea how to do that and have to rely on pre-made algorhythms.
Raidah doesn’t even do that. What she does is ‘say what good people would say’. Her actions are not actions of a good person (see: the year-long bullying campaign against Sarah)
It’s super weird to me that Raidah is still seen as the villain here. As far as I can tell, the worst she did is stop hanging out with Sarah because she honestly thought Sarah was being super-selfish about one of her other (much closer) friends to the point of getting her pulled from school? That makes her wrong, but not a bad person I think, and it definitely doesn’t make her worse than Sarah, who’s trying to break up Raidah’s relationship out of pure spite.
She was awfully nasty in how she chose to break off the friendship with Sarah, she insulted Dina (not as badly as Charlotte, but it still wasn’t great), her comments in the last couple of strips seem to suggest she sees Jacob as much as a potential accessory to her future successful life as an actual partner…I think it’s fair to say she’s not the outright villain Sarah wants her to be, but there’s plenty there to dislike.
No, I don’t think Raidah’s likable at all, but she’s also not deliberately sabotaging other people’s happiness out of malice? Sarah’s clearly the one in the wrong here, IMO, and to be honest she comes across at least as unpleasant as Raidah.
To wit: Sarah’s big deal about not making friends was that she needed all the time she could get to study, but she *does* have time to follow Raidah around and wait for her relationship to implode. Those aren’t the priorities of a pleasant and likable person.
*time, singular. And again, from Raidah’s perspective, Sarah sabotaged one of her friends’ lives for her own benefit. She’s (partly) wrong about that, but given that she believes it, why *wouldn’t* she try to warn people away from her? Sure, it’s petty, but when you consider that from Sarah’s perspective, she’s deliberately sabotaging the happiness of someone who she knows to be wrong but well intentioned, I don’t see how Raidah’s the bad person in this situation.
Taking Dina aside and saying “you might not want to hang out with Sarah, here’s why” would be warning people away from her. Approaching the two of them in public and mocking both of them is just being a huge fucking asshole.
When you try to drag someone away against their will, I know who is actually sabotaging people’s lives for their own benefit. I don’t tolerate assault.
In her first appearance Raidah approached Sarah in a public space (and a largely unavoidable space, especially to someone like Sarah who’s there on scholarships) specifically to harass her. In her second appearance Raidah approached Sarah in a public space specifically to harass her, and then tried to drive Sarah’s “friend” off because Sarah doesn’t deserve friends, and then mocked said “friend” for being “mentally-challenged” while using her as a prop to make Sarah feel bad, and as a fun bonus yelled at Sarah for walking away from the situation as if there was literally any other appropriate response. Like yeah, the whole of the situation’s more complicated than either of them make it out to be, and Sarah’s current behaviour is unacceptable, but Raidah has definitely done a shitload more than stop hanging out with Sarah.
One of the best things about this comic (and any good piece of writing) is that most characters aren’t clearly defined as “villains” or “good guys.” We’re positioned to be more sympathetic of some, but just like in real life, these characters have layers, and can be both good and victims in some ways, but awful shitty bullies in others.
I don’t think Raidah is the villain any more than I think Sarah is. They’re both acting on grudges that they feel are personally justified based on past wrongs done to them (or to those close to them). Both their behavior is problematic, but also somewhat realistic in terms of what can happen when two stubborn people have a serious falling out.
It’s kind of a moral compass problem here: nobody (beside Mary and the dads + Ryan) is a villain nor a hero. To me, Raidah morals are more systemic than Sarahs, therefore more problematic. Sarah could ruin a realtionship (but not a life! I believe that we got the right to ave more than one romantic relationship in our life – and why not, polyamorous triangle/polygon could be a serious option in a few real-life years for Raidjoycob), but the class acting of Raidah is ruining lives as a system which she’s not sole responsible but still acting part of.
Raidah is not ‘the villain’ here. This is not the kind of situation with a defined ‘the villain’. Nobody is the villain, and nobody is the hero on the shining white horse. Knock this childishness off.
What Raidah is, however, is -gross-. Her relationship with Jacob, comparing her attitude right now with what she told him way back when, is built on 0% honestly and 100% manipulativeness. She disregards people as props, and thinks of destroying someone’s life as reasonable payback for not following the ‘bro code’ of their stoner social group.
This does not make Sarah’s childishness and pettiness about the situation any less childish and petty… but it does make it less -morally wrong-, because if she knows this about Raidah, she also knows that her relationships are not of the genuinely-attached-good-to-people-involved kind.
And of course, Sarah’s childishness and pettiness (borne out of Raidah’s own earier actions toward her, let’s not forget) does not in any way change facts about Raidah’s attitude towards Jacob and Joyce.
More or less what Betty Anne said. I don’t know Jack about Jacob’s backstory, but it’s starting to look like Raidah is some kind of social climber. I wonder how influencial Jacob’s family is?
I KNEW IT! I always got the feeling her and Jacob’s relationship was more business-like than anything else. It’s just a feeling…but this more or less helps me understand my own gut instinct more
It’s not a good one, I can agree on that =/ I feel sorry for both Jacob and Joyce. Jacob’s being seen as more of an object than a person, while Joyce is just trying to help him get together with Sarah (I don’t remember if she knows about why Raidah and Sarah don’t like each other). I’m just worried about Joyce getting another painful lesson, in this case about trying to help in different ways.
I actually really like this plot, for many of the same reasons.
It’s complex. There aren’t clear good guys and bad guys. I mean, Raidah’s definitely coming off as a pretty unpleasant person – manipulative, focused on material and social success and dismissing others based on that, all set up long ago in her early appearances – bringing Sarah into their group with promises of law firm connections (that might have been Dana saying that, but the implication that they were all together for the networking remains), talking down to Dina, etc. Raidah’s a real piece of work.
But in this particular arc, she’s in the right and both Joyce and Sarah are not. And then there’s the conflict between Joyce’s official plan – help big sister with Jacob and her own crush on him.
This is all going to implode so awesomely.
And yes, Joyce has a big lesson to learn about her matchmaking and meddling in other people’s relationships. And she does know the Raidah/Sarah backstory, though I think she’s largely ignoring it and focusing on shipping Sarah/Jacob as motivation.
And it allows us to find out more about characters we don’t know much about. Jacob’s reaction to all of this, for me, is going to be particularly interesting because we’ve never seen him react in a truly bad situation and because it might provide more insight to his inner thoughts
She could also be a Gryffindor, being assholes at people they think deserve it, taking rivalries too far, being completely bullheaded and refusing to admit thy might be wrong. Hits all the negative traits of the house.
She doesn’t think of people as people, rather as stepping stones, obstacles or decorations.
I don’t know what house this is. My gut tells me that this attutide could fit both Ravenclaw and Slytherin, maybe even Hufflepuff… but one of the defining Gryffindor traits is -earnestness-. Their relationships with people are actual -relationships with people-, either as friends or enemies. Not… this.
So no, I don’t think Gryffindor.
My question is what does Radiah have against education majors? Someone has to be able to teach the next generation or said generation will screw up. Teachers are an important thing. We know Joyce didn’t choose it for the purpose of getting a career in the field of education, but the emphasis put on word can’t help but make me read that in some sort of venemous sneer. Is this some sort of intellectual elitism? Because I just want to point out one can’t study law before someone else taught them how to read and write.
People love to hate on education majors. I think it was used as at least somewhat of a slam in this comic before, and I’ve definitely seen it used as an insult or joke in different forms of media. If Raidah’s saying that Jacob would want someone his family will see and “ambitious” and “going places” and all that, then there’s probably something there about her not seeing education majors as meeting that.
Education is one of the lowest-paying majors. I think only Criminal Justice has a worse economic outlook than Education. It’s made even worse by the fact that you now need a Masters to get any kind of decent job in Education, which trashes the ROI on the degree even further.
Raidah is definitely right about Jacob needing to buckle down, law is massively oversaturated as well and you pretty much have to be top 10% now to get into a law school that will leave you even remotely employable.
In academic circles, there is a general perception that the intellectual rigor required of education majors is way below the intellectual rigor required of other academic disciplines.
Delving into why this perception exists is something I am not remotely qualified to do.
Speaking as an art major, basically any financially-low-on-the-totem-pole and seen as fun/less stressful/less serious (even if it actually can be very stressful) major often gets shit on by arrogant people in high-paying academic (business or scientific/medical) fields.
It’s kinda like how stay-at-home moms are assumed to have it super easy/not have “real jobs”/ have fun all day by those who don’t have lots of experience taking care of young children alone, even though I’d say their stress levels/challenges are often even more than what someone might face in a rigorous academic setting (I say this as a part-time freelancing mom who is baffled by how stay at home moms do it).
My students often ask me why I choose to teach, because there are so many more paid jobs, and teachers always have shitty cars…
So I’d think it’s not as teaching is still seen as social prowess…
Education was the fall back major when I was in university, it was what you transferred into when you couldn’t hack engineering, or nuclear physics, or whatever you originally planned to major in. Sounds like it still might be.
Doesn’t… doesn’t Jacob believe angels are real? He seems pretty religious, and that’s one of the really commonly held beliefs even of people who don’t take the bible literally. Like, I know people who AREN’T religious and think angels are real, in a kind of hippie woo guardian angel sense.
Poor Jacob, man. That’s my main takeaway from this plotline. Poor, oblivious Jacob. Everyone around you kinda sucks.
I get the impression Raidah thinks little of Jacob’s beliefs (and may be more culturally Muslim than religiously Muslim herself) and probably tolerates them in a fairly patronizing way while rolling her eyes at them behind his back. :/
Thinking about the “angels” line — it may well be that Raidah, if questioned on the topic, might explain that what she meant was that angels are real, but are only tasked to do important jobs, like conveying revelations to important prophets, or making annunciations of divinely-caused pregnancy to chosen virgins (I wasn’t sure until I checked, but Wikipedia “Jesus in Islam” says that Jesus, although not actually God himself in Islam, is a prophet stated to have resulted from a virgin birth. Religion; go figure.)
And given the above, maybe what Raidah thinks that Joyce thinks is that angels are everywhere doing all sorts of little tasks, like God’s own Boy Scout Troop. It would fit with Raidah being a classist — “[Joyce] thinks that angels are real [and doing things for unimportant people]”
It seems like a reasonable interpolation from her attitude and personality.
Yeah it might be specific context. Kind of like how someone can believe in “God” but might look down on/laugh at people who believe in God as a personified guy with long white beard sitting in the clouds, because the God they believe in is more abstract.
I’m not familiar with how Islam views angels, but regardless Raidah may be more culturally religious/spiritual, than literally dogmatic about Islam, so “angels” to her could be a metaphor or something and she thinks those who believe in literal personified angels are wrong.
I’m getting the ‘atheists are superior, this is an axiom that everyone reasonable surely can recognize’ vibe (paired with ‘going to church =/= believing in what’s said there’ and complete obliviousness/disregard for Jacob’s individuality and obvious affection for religion)
I think atheist is stretching it, though it’s possible I suppose. I think autogatos is more abstract, sophisticated vs literal/simplistic kind of thing.
All tying into her general classism.
as someone who works with this age demographic a lot my suspension of disbelief is being tested tbh. College kids just… dont talk like this. Not that I expect every single page to have perfect dialogue and it’s hard to give each character their own unique voice but……………………………….. yeah
Not to you, they don’t.
But among themselves, they might just talk based on how they think is reasonable to talk, borrowing heavily from pop culture and stereotypes.
Of course they talk to me in a different way. But I’m still there when they talk to each other, lol. I don’t work 1 on 1 with teens in this age demographic so I see a lot of their interactions with each other too. Often the dialogue is fine but this is definitely toeing outside of the “I’m forgetting how The Kids These Days talk”
I mean…it’s a drama comic. A lot of this stuff isn’t very realistic, it’s not meant to be. I mean, you don’t complain that desperate housewives is inaccurate to how real housewives behave
i feel like this should be so easy to deal with in any healthy, trusting relationship. just, “hey, i think your new friend has a crush on you. can you be careful not to lead her on?” (or, if you’re poly, just have it be a non-issue). The fact that shit gets so schemey so fast certainly says something about this relationship that i’d otherwise been getting pretty good vibes from
Honestly I would be so up for Smarting of Age as a parody version of DOA where characters make intelligent decisions and the whole thing is over in like ten pages.
Haha, I would read that!
In my mind, it’s just a waiting room, with most of the characters quietly waiting for their highly competent therapists.
(The therapist is Ninja Rick.)
The best resolution for this arc is that Jacob ends up alone and reflects about the way he’s been relating to women. And doesn’t enter a relationship until next year, to say the least.
Because they’re all wrong here and it’s not fair to him.
I’ve suggested before that the line about jealous exes might be a hint that this is a trend with Jacob – close flirty relationships with girls with serious crushes on him. And him mostly oblivious and innocently wondering why his girlfriend is getting upset.
It does, except he seems to be consistently in suboptimal relationships, it’s I think the intent of the comment. Maybe we’re expecting too much of relationships tho
Based on his own admittance his jealous exes and what we’re seeing here, he seems to have a poor handle on defining the line between friendly and flirty. Just because it’s Joyce and just because they get along doesn’t make it okay.
Hell, he’s the best dude in the comic so far, but neither he’s playing them or he has a naivety to him that’s a bit worrying.
That sounds more like he’s had a run of bad girlfriends. Trial and error is the only way to find something that works, short of being extremely lucky.
Nothing has happened between him and Joyce that would be inappropriate between friends.
And OF COURSE he’s a bit naive, he’s like 18. Everyone is a bit of a dumbass at that age. Even the smart ones. That he’s so focused on classes and his long term goals only makes it easier for him to miss the subtle cues that reveal someone is flirting.
Hell, I’m nearly 35 and I STILL manage to be completely oblivious to women flirting with me most of the time.
Tbh, I want this outcome because it feels like what Jacob needs. Like, Joyce at least isn’t trying to do it spitefully by tearing people to shreds, but still no, you shouldn’t be doing this thing Joyce, while in general I just don’t abide by partners doing what Raidah is of squashing jealousy only by tearing someone else down instead of communicating ‘hey, turns out I do feel jealousy, can we talk about it’.
The funny thing is, none of that justifies Sarah and Joyce’s actions. She could be the shittiest human on campus and still it would be wrong for them to try and break her and Jacob up.
You’re forgetting ableist (even if not the worst out of her friends), condescending and spiteful (these traits are shown by her assuming Dina was mentally challenged, talking down to her, and telling her Sarah would be a bad friend right in front of Sarah’s face, alongside other instances such as Raidah randomly telling Sarah to choke early on just because she felt like it and Raidah accepting an apology about an event, but then repeating said event to Jacob as if they had not resolved it to purposely reflect Sarah negatively).
Raidah does not appear to see other people as people. Jacob is property to be guarded from thieves, Joyce is a nobody, Sarah is a pity project turned traitor, Dina is… I’m not even going to go there.
I can’t blame Sarah for going ‘this girl does not deserve to dupe people into relationship with her by pretending to be decent because of knowing all the right things to say’.
Because that’s the thing: Raidah knows all the right things to say, but chooses to act like… well, like this.
Jacob can do better. Anyone who’s not her exact copy can do better. It’s hard to disagree with Sarah, in context of her probably having known this about Raidah all along.
Sure, Sarah is childish about it. But the basic intuitive reasoning is solid.
Now I see why the university bought those chairs. They are just so useful. Amber can form an isolation chamber and Sarah has a nice place to play hide & gloat.
Thinking about this more, since Jacob is reasonably intelligent and for the most part, kind hearted (from what we’ve seen) – I’m wondering now if perhaps he already knows/has inklings regarding Joyce. If I recall right, he’s preparing to become a lawyer (or doc, I’m suddenly not certain…) and while anyone can be oblivious, considering his desire to impress his family somehow, I’d think that perhaps he might have at least have some idea of Joyce’s potential ‘flirting’ or even plots with Sarah. Joyce is naive enough, but Jacob has been mentioned to have siblings, and siblings always plot against one another.
I might be reading too far into this though. By this reasoning, it stands to note that Jacob might actually be seeing what the girls are up to (Joyce and Sarah at least), and just goes along as if opening Joyce’s mind to his religion – a point that they basically agree with in general.
As cute as Jacob and Joyce are to me, I’d love them being friends either way. Joyce would apologize, I think, if things were to escalate with Raidah – but now that Sarah knows…well, who knows there. She tends to try and do the right thing, abrasive as she is, and we know that she cares about Joyce.
Sad to see that Jacob’s basically being used as a trophy even now with Raidah – I’m interested to see if he’s fully aware of this or oblivious because of his desires to impress his family.
Also shame on Raidah for the playing right into the “I’m the best for him because it’ll impress his family” – I know this first hand regarding family ideals where you’ll…never impress them. Maybe a little, sure, but in the end, it’s never enough. That may even backfire in Jacob and Raidah’s little ideal world they’ve set themselves up for – since her religion is different than his – and families are the first ones to crit that.
Of course, it might not matter either since I don’t think we’ve seen Jacob’s parents. Arg, character interpretations! My one weakness!
It wouldn’t surprise me if Jacob and Raidah have talked about their relationship and how they want to handle it and what they want out of it and are totally cool with the arrangement. They have both talked about the relationship as a stepping stone of sorts after all.
I sure would like to see more of his take into the whole debacle. Him being more than oblivious eye candy would make this more tolerable.
I actually just started going back through some of the Jacob tag to try and find the strip where he was explaining his relationship with Raidah to…I think Joyce, but it’s late so I’m not certain.
What I did find was some of his opinions regarding being seen as only a dehumanized sex object (harkening back to Shortpacked) to Joyce and Joe, where he complimented Joyce on her relationship with Ethan – I find that interesting, since it’s what he’s not saying about his past relationships.
Also! He and Raidah were seen in the elevator talking about jealousy, where he basically talked to her about his friendship with Joyce. I’m wondering how much this will change, since he’s mentioned to have had dealt with jealous girlfriends before. Couple this with how friendly he is with Joyce, who I think he honestly sees as a friend and (perhaps?) nothing more since he likes her as a person, this might change.
I agree though – I’d love to see his take on it. We only get glimpses of him because of the sheer number of characters but looking through his tag I kept being surprised how often he was in the background or with Joyce (re: Amber arriving back after the attack – he was being supportive as best he could, since he didn’t know Amber but clearly understood Joyce’s feelings on what was going on. He wanted to make sure Amber was okay, even if it was just because of Joyce). I think he has a good heart and wants to do well.
I would agree with this. So far, he’s been kind, thoughtful and his only real fallacy might be sheer obliviousness.
I’m sure there’ll be something eventually because people aren’t perfect but that’s human beings for you. I really like him as a character and want to see more of his potential growth.
We’ve seen Raidah and Jacob talk about their relationship. She’s told him she doesn’t do jealousy and doesn’t care about other girls around him, because in the end it’s about his choices on who to be with.
That, uh. Appears to have approximately 0% truth to it, based on the last two strips.
I think there’s some non-zero percentage to do with it, in that Raidah thinks Jacob is making decisions the same way she does. To her, it may well be about his choice of who to be with, because she is objectively better than any other girl for his purposes and therefore he is going to choose her every time. She’s not taking a lot of things into account, most notably that Jacob isn’t even remotely as cold-blooded as she seems to be.
You are not wrong in that there’s a lot of earnest truth about herself that she’s telling there.
But note the ‘we’re safe’ line.
She definitely wants Jacob with -her-, and the fact that she recognizes he can make free choices of his own will only makes this more gross, because it means she sees his agency and chooses to disregard it.
She sees other girls as a threat, because the main reason she wants Jacob is not, in fact, that he wants to be with her, as she would have him believe in the elevator. Him wanting to be with her is not even a prerequisite.
I’m probably not wording this correctly, but my point is: Raidah told Jacob she didn’t mind other girls around him, as their relationship was about their relationship and not other people. As seeing here, she lied.
I’m sure they did talk and I’m pretty sure Jacob was straightforward and honest about what he wanted and I have a strong suspicion that Raidah listened closely and played the whole thing to her advantage. I’m also pretty confident that she wasn’t open and honest in return.
I think Jacob probably doesn’t see the plotting, because in his head it probably makes complete sense as to why Joyce would want to come to his church, because they had a lengthy and interesting conversation about religion and Joyce seemed receptive to new ideas, so Jacob probably thought she might like to see his church, and that she chose to go there on her own volition with no ulterior motive. So far i think he’s been oblivious to Sarah’s attraction to him, so he’d have no reason to suspect that Sarah told Joyce to break him and Raidah up. Also, Jacob’s been shown to see the best in everyone, so the idea that Joyce and Sarah, two people he is friends with, would want to destroy his relationship would be completely alien to him.
That being said, I do hope he eventually finds out on his own and we get to see him deal with finding out, because it’d be great to see him call out all the bullshit that Joyce and Sarah have done, and I hope that he calls Raidah out as he’s probably the only one in the “main cast” whose opinions she won’t dismiss, and which might make her re evaluate her attitude to Joyce and maybe Sarah
Okay, Raidah’s line about Jakob “needing her” totally invalidates their relationship for me. To her, having a partner apparently is all about putting up airs. And from what we have seen so far, there doesn’t seem to be much warmth between them.
And that makes me think that Jakob will eventually break up with her, because he doesn’t seem to be as shallow as she is.
Also, I don’t get what she gets out of it. Is she a law major? In that case, she can’t be looking for a provider. Does she “need” a presentable partner as well? Is she perhaps just projecting her own need on Jakob??
This is the strip in which Sarah learns that being a scheming supervillain requires more luck than she realised!
Raidah, this is just a guess but something tells me that Jacob wants more out of a girlfriend than a drill sergeant. I’m not saying that Joyce is better than you because it’s more complex than that. However, I think that you should be aware that she presses buttons that he rather wants pressed but that you are evidently unaware even exist.
Maybe he does and maybe he doesn’t. What’s important here is that Raidah doesn’t and the contempt she feels for those with such beliefs says negative things about her personality.
Well, Jacob is not a bible literalist of the same brand… but that’s not really the point.
To Raidah, it’s not about compatibility. It’s about one person being objectively better than the other. Raidah is obviously a better catch than Joyce, and that has nothing to do with Jacob as a person at all. Jacob as a person does not enter into the equation at all.
It was shitty of those two to keep press Raidah like this.
What Raidah said about Jacob and what he ‘needs’ is also shitty. However, I’m not sure how much of it was meanspirited exaggeration to shut those two down, and how much of it is a driving force behind why she’s in this relationship.
Either way, it’s not a good sign. But some takes of it are more workable than others.
Tbh I don’t think anyone’s commented on how pretty Sarah is in this strip yet. So I’m going to comment on how pretty Sarah is. Sarah is very pretty. The end.
Oh, but she’s not -jealous-. She’s not insecure. She just objectively, maturely worries that someone might take away her property. How successful a thief can Joyce make? is the worry in her mind.
Obviously, she can’t tell -Jacob- that. Can’t tip your hand to your mark.
Eeeeyup. Between ‘we’re safe’, ‘his family’ and the obvious disconnect between what she tells Jacob about their relationship and how she talks about it with her flunkies, there doesn’t seem to be -anything- more to it.
The “angels” bit from Raidah I’m figuring is shorthand for the literal bible interpretations Joyce has had pushed into the brain, like the age of the earth (Dina’s “I can save this one!”.about Becky for comparison), and the end of days* in Revelations.
It is.
But it’s the kind of shorthand that fails to take into account the fact that -this specific fact- might nooot be a good example because it’s something Jacob might just also believe.
Raidah… does not appear to have given Jacob’s faith much thought.
Might, but probably doesn’t. At least not in the literal sense that she assumes Joyce does.
Have we actually seen anything about angels from Joyce or her church? Are angels a big thing in that sector of Christianity?
Back in the ’90s, I read somewhere that, in the American population as a whole, more people believe in angels (or guardian spirits, if you prefer) than believe in a distinct supreme deity.
So, when it comes to comparing Sarah and Raidah.
Initially, I was willing to believe it was just both of them bringing out the worst in each other. Sarah definitely doesn’t act towards other people the way she acts towards Raidah. Their worst is still really different (Sarah’s worst includes apologizing for punching and Raidah’s worst includes a year-long harrassment campaign), but I was willing to give Raidah the benefit of doubt and assume her attitude towards Sarah is the exception to the general rule.
This reading was supported by the evident maturity of her talk to Jacob. Sure, she was also shitty to Joyce and Dina in the mall, but that was in Sarah’s immediate proximity which might have… impaired her normal reasoning.
These latest strips are definitely, absolutely, completely disproving this hypothesis. Sarah is nowhere near. Her relationship with Jacob is still built on lies, self-aggrandizing, hypocrisy and complete lack of concern for him as a person. Nor does she see Joyce as a person. It’s all about achievements and being ‘objectively better’ to her. This is gross, and she is gross. How mature she manages to act when she’s deliberately trying only underscores that this comes not from ignorance, but from deliberate choice to be this way.
Sarah is abrasive and wary of other people, but she definitely sees them as people. Sometimes as shitty people, people she doesn’t want to interact with, people she wants to hurt… but still people. When Jacob gave his speech about not wanting to be seen as a sex object, Sarah switched her ambitions about him from dating him personally (because she took into account his actual explicitly expressed preferences and estimated them as incompatible with her own) to hooking him up with Joyce, who according to those same explicitly expressed preferences is the perfect match. Sure, she also still wants to break him up with Raidah against those same preferences, but it’s not because she neglected to take into account that he’s a human person at all.
Wait what? The very foundation of Islam is that the angel Gabriel appeared to Muhammad and told him to begin reciting the word of God. Raidah makes no sense.
To a lot of people, their religion is part of their cultural identity but they do not internalise the beliefs as being ‘true’. Clearly, Raidah defines herself as a ‘Muslim’ as part of who she is but she does not feel any need to actually practice its strictures or accept its creeds.
Any more than it’s true of the Christian members of the cast who aren’t Joyce or Mary. What you’re describing is certainly a thing, but it’s far from clear it applies to Raidah. If nothing else, she does go to services regularly.
I don’t know exactly how much control you have over this, but I think one or more of the advertisers on this site have malware associated with them, because they appeared as a popover that refused to let me return to the normal comic, and are very reminiscent of similarly malicious advertisements on very sketchy websites. I have heard of this kind of thing affecting another webcomic writer, but I don’t know whether or not they were able to remove the malicious ads. That comic was Go Get a Roomie, if you want to get in contact with the author there for tips or support.
Since I installed Firefox clear, there is an option to use its ad-restrictions in Safari and I never had any trouble since (though the endless places to visit ad gets boring).
I’ve have had trouble with aggressive ads on some hiveworks sites this summer, but though the artists responded, it seemed to be difficult to track down the actual offending ad. Thus Firefox clear.
(hey sometimes I really hate being such a loner and uninterested in people around me, but I am really glad it’s saved me from ever being in a situation remotely like this one)
WHAT IF Sarah actually tricked Joyce into thinking that she was helping Sarah out to remove Jacob from Raidah, when actually Sarah was trying to set Joyce and Jacob up as a couple?
Because that would both be a neat plot twist, and not actually that out of character for Sarah…
We’ve been saying this for a while. It was pretty obvious that this was Sarah’s objectives when she helped Billie dress her up in her most seductive dress.
So this is our prominent Muslim character. Backstabbing, classist, derogatory, manipulative, insincere and so easily detestable. And as it turns out, isn’t even sincere in her belief, even if she’s perfectly willing to debate religion with Jacob. Almost cartoonishly villainous.
So the narrative I’d hoped for, something keeping in line with a more genuine universe with realistic consequences, of a group of people-two of whom are white women-treating a good and kind and attractive and genuine black man tired and anxious about people close to him treating him as an object of jealousy and temptation as exactly that to get back at his relationship with an admittedly flawed and understandably disliked Muslim girl, is going to be rewarded because that Muslim girl is also dehumanizing him and apparently has no good qualities and is just manipulating him for appearances or prestige or something. Turns out it’s good to break up their relationship cuz it was bad this whole time, pack it in boys.
This type of person exists. I’ve met them. They’re awful and real. But for fucks sake man Raidah is the only Muslim character of any prominence in the plot. Asma any other side character are just side characters, barely any interactions if any, like their existance checks off a box and that makes this okay. I wanted to see the kind of complexity given to Joe or Sarah or, even Malaya at this juncture. But no it’s just more and more and more reasons to hate her. And I legit do and I’m sad on a thousand levels.
I don’t think I can continue reading this man. I’m too upset looking at all of this. Hope you do well Willis.
Nash, one of Billie’s new neighbors, seems like a nice and fun person. Pretty sure she’s a Muslim. We haven’t seen much of her yet, but I think she’ll play a bigger role in the future.
I think you’re making a lot of assumptions with the “reward” thing, there’s no reason to believe this will end well for Joyce or Sarah, in fact this might end up in tears for everyone. Just because Sarah is gloating this doesn’t mean it’s a done deal.
Yep. Here’s hope you decide to come back in a couple of years and find that by then Nash and Asma have become prominent characters, and we can all breathe out a collective sigh of relief.
Willis does have a record of getting better with time. Here’s hope.
Those aren’t the same boxes she references here, though. Jacob believes she views him as an equal, enjoys spending time with him as a person and won’t be hostile to girls he strikes up friendships with.
These beliefs are false.
It’s not all that weird really. I’ve known people who “believed in Angels” in senses that would weird out many Christians, even if those Christians, if pressed, would admit they believed in angels in sort of abstract “there are angels in heaven and they’re kind of metaphors for messages from God kind of way”.
Much like the difference between those who believe in the Devil and those who think most evils in the world are the result of direct active demonic possession or action.
That long weekend when a lovesick Dina hung around with a reluctant Sarah, learning the arts of sarcasm, humor and sexting, apparently Sarah learnt a thing or two from Dina too.
She is now a cranky ninja. She appear from behind your door. She might be appear from behind any door.
Ok. So I have to say that I don’t get all these comments about how Raidah doesn’t see people as people. There’s no evidence for it.
Raidah is definitely the sort of person who forms strong emotional attachments. That’s the source of her whole beef with Sarah. In Raidah’s mind, Sarah was the bongo who got Dana sent home over nothing by grossly overecagerating her emotional issues. Sarah is full of reasonless spite and Raidah felt betrayed.
I’m not saying Raidah doesn’t have MASSIVE character flaws. Her choice in friends, the fact is she actively harasses Sarah, and they way she looks down on others based on assumptions are speak for themselves.
BUT, I don’t see Raidah as the psychopathic social climber other commenters are portraying her as.
If anything, her comments here DO make a case for her own self-perceived superiority, but I think she is at worst only making assumptions on what Jacob values in a partner. Jacob is vocal about how he wants someone supportive and trusting and Raidah is offering that. To Raidah, Jacob wouldn’t hook-up with Joyce because she’s a stupid home schooled fundie AND even if he was into that, how would he explain it to his family/reconcile it with his goals in life?
Kay, so ‘all these comments’ are probably mostly mine haha oops. I have been going around leaving them everywhere like bird droppings, if only because with each one I actually understood my own thoughts on the situation better :>
So, here’s my argument for the whole ‘Raidah thinks of people as props’ thing.
Point of evidence 1: The Whole Dana Situation. And no, I’m not talking about Raidah failing to notice Dana was not okay, that’s normal human obliviousness. I’m talking about her reaction to Sarah. How dare this girl put her right to get good grades above her roommate’s right to smoke weed at all hours?! She completely failed to even try to understand Sarah’s situation.
Sure, could be oblivousness. But still: failure of empathy, strike one.
Point 2: year-fucking-long harrassment campaign against Sarah. We don’t just have to take Sarah’s word for it, we have seen it in action: Raidah actively goes out of her way to approach people Sarah’s making friends with and loudly and publicly badmouth her in front of them. This is not just a failure of empathy for Sarah. This is, first and foremost, a failure of empathy for people Sarah is hanging out with. They are being put on the spot in a horribly awkward way. Raidah -punishes- them for daring to be around Sarah, and that’s probably why her goal of isolating Sarah has succeeded so perfectly (Sarah literally has no friends in her own year). Not because nobody was interested in befriending Sarah, but because doing so carried consequences enforced by Raidah.
Do you think she considered those other people to be people when crafting her -magnificent plan-?
Failure of empathy, strike two.
Point 3: Dina. Sure, Raidah shut up the obviously-explicitly-ableist slur from her friend, meaning she wasn’t just completely oblivious to the whole problem. She still was incredibly condescending and insulting to Dina, apparently failing to see anything wrong with this behavior.
Failure of empathy, strike three.
Point 4: allowing her friends to talk about Jacob in this way behind her back and not shutting down the conversation. It’s not like she’s awkward/insecure/needs support: she’s had this conversation with Jacob before, and hit all the right notes, to the point of winning respect of a lot of readership (including me). She -knows- that thinking of things in terms of ‘sniffin’ around your dude’ is disrespectful to the dude’s agency, yet goes ahead with it anyway.
Failure of respect for Jacob personally: strike one.
Point 5: she has said herself that she considers freshment to be children. And when it is pointed out to her that that makes Jacob a child too, her reaction is not ‘no, he’s not, that’s why I’m dating him’. Her reaction (unsaid) is ‘oh shit, you’re right’. She’s dating a guy she’s considering to be a child who’ll be interested in other children.
I don’t even… I can’t even elaborate on this. She’s dating someone she considers to be a child.
Point 6: Jacob and Joyce objectively have a chemistry. They share an interest in theology. Jacob admires Joyce for having punched a guy. They are compatible on the ‘companionship without sex hanging over your heads’ level. They have fun talking to each other, and Raidah definitely had a chance to notice that.
Yet, her summation of Joyce is ‘a homeschooled nobody’.
How do you even arrive to this conclusion? How much of Joyce’s personality and history do you need to carve out to leave that? What do you even take into account if you consider JOYCE BROWN, the super high profile student and a super bright personality with plenty of friends on campus, to be nobody?
(The answer is money and influence. Specifically, the family’s influence – because if you count Joyce’s personal contacts, they include Walky and Carla and Billie, all pretty fucking rich children. But noticing that would require actually paying attention to Joyce as a person, and not just her parents’ puppet let loose to play…)
Point 7. “I know what Jacob wants, and it’s to live up to the standards of his family, to make them proud”
Uh, is it? Jacob isn’t exactly the most closed off guy. He’s talked about what he wants: companionship without sex hanging over his head… that sounds suspiciously unlike ‘make my daddy proud’. It’s almost like it lies on an entirely different plane. It’s almost like Jacob has life outside of his career and wants lots of things from it. Raidah is literally the ONLY person who’s ever brought up Jacob’s family. Not even once has Jacob himself mentioned them.
Just… augh. Failures of empathy are one thing, I myself consistently fail to understand what other people think and feel. That’s why I rely on simple social rules, like don’t lie, don’t bully people, don’t talk about them derisively behind their backs. Like, for people who don’t really get how to not hurt others, our society has developed long and extensive sets of guidelines. They don’t cover anything and are often woefully insufficient, but they damn fucking well cover a lot of shit Raidah has been saying.
Her failures of empathy are actually failures of respect. She doesn’t respect Sarah, she doesn’t respect Dina, she doesn’t respect Joyce, she doesn’t respect Jacob… because what she’s doing here is explicitly refusing to see the situation from his point of view. Her argument is not ‘Jacob is a nice person who would not cheat on me, I trust him’ which is actually on the same plane of reality as Jacob’s actual motivations and what she’s talked to him about. Her argument is ‘Joyce has nothing to offer’. That’s… kind of… very obviously… not true? if you know the first thing about Jacob? if you are willing to trust the evidence in front of your own eyes of Jacob enjoying her company?
But nope, why consider Jacob’s enjoyment of someone’s company when you can just rely on status signifiers to sort people into a definite hierarchy that places you on top instead?
Alright. Listed out like that you have a pretty solid argument there. I think I agree most with your reclarification to it being about a lack of respect.
Raidah is too socially competent to be a psychopath. I even ran her through an online quiz just now. (Of course that’s based on subjective interpretation of her character. Feel free to do it yourself).
Her biggest problem is her superiority complex. Sarah betrayed Raidah and rejected her attempts at friendship by making up stories about Dana’s terrible depression. Everyone younger than Raidah is a “child”. Joyce is AT BEST a naive innocent bigot worthy of pity. People who hang out with Sarah are obviously confused and need to be steered in the right direction. Jacob won’t betray her cause he’s her boyfriend and she’s the best possible girlfriend for him and she wouldn’t have chosen a boyfriend who couldn’t figure that out.
Eh, I don’t really like diagnosing people with ‘complexes’ like that. Like, sure, you can say that absolutely everything about someone’s personality is one complex or another, something thrust upon them by circumstances that they had no choice in. But people still have choices, and IMHO Raidah’s superior attitude towards others is the product of a choice, not of the world around her bending itself to present her with this as the only parseable view of reality.
But yeah, basically what you said. She considers herself to be superior. And there’s a good society-enforced foundation for it: classism is hell of a thing. It takes unlearning, like all other -isms. I guess that’s why I have an issue with calling it a ‘complex’: that makes it sound like it’s a problem confined to the specific person, but no, it’s a problem with the system they’re embedded in. It’s a whole complicated thing.
(Okay, so maybe there’s some hard to parse contradiction between the first and second paragraphs, but I hope you get the point, uh, somehow, by being smart. Which you are)
I hate to say this, but I’m kind of getting Raidah, here today.
On the one hand, she’s the first one among anyone in this storyline to express any interest in what Jacob wants. While everyone else seems to be clapping for Joyce, or Sarah, or whatever Becky was trying to do before, nobody else seems to have asked Jacob anything, let alone tried to set about helping him achieve what he wants to achieve.
Sarah’s in it solely for petty revenge (now that she realized she’s not Jacob’s type herself), Joyce was too clouded by a combination of her (if I’m being nice) OCD issues and heh-heh-it’s-a-boy to even ask if he had family or whatever (which is odd- even after everything, she’s still fairly family-oriented), Becky’s in it for Joyce and letting the world Know She’s Becky (like usual), etc.
Sure, Raidah’s way of going about it is pushy, but maybe pushy’s her medium for expressing caring about something.
As for “For THAT, he needs ME”… if you’ve never experienced only valuing yourself for what you can do, not for who you are, I don’t think it can be adequately explained. Besides, this would be a very good way to cover any feeling of vulnerability. (“I can’t be jealous. I’m too valuable, here. Right?”, coupled with her expected level-of-cool “If I’m cheated on, fuck you and goodbye, moving on.”.
It’s not that much different from when Dorothy was all-career, no-anything-else- maybe a bit better managed than her, really- it’s just that she’s on the wrong side of the narrative and we’re expected to hate her.
Sarah, today, is being petty and mean. Since it’s against Raidah, we’re expected to find it as a not-very-bad thing, but that’s more that the pettiness and meanness is being aimed at someone we aren’t liking than that it doesn’t exist.
OCD people in the comment section have noted that Joyce’s issues are entirely unlikely issues they face. Autistic people in the comment section have noted that Joyce’s issues are hauntingly familiar and line up with some diagnosis criteria.
Just as a side point.
As for Joyce not asking about family… uh… okay, so I myself am autistic and might not be getting something there, but how do you even ask something like that??? ‘Oh by the way, do you have parents?’ Like, this is a horrible minefield because you never know what kind of issues you might be stepping into (divorced parents, absentee parents, poor parents, parents in jail, abusive parents), AND it adds nothing to the conversation. A person’s family is something you find out about them once you’re close friends, not in a casual acquaintance chat. It’s just… not… done??? To my intuition, Raidah is actually being kind of assholy here just talking about Jacob’s family relationships to people-who-are-not-his-close-friends???
Like, I might be not getting something here? I’m Ukrainian, maybe it’s a thing in America? But we still don’t know anything about Sarah’s parents just because it’s never come up? Because family is just not one of those topics you casually chat about unless you ARE family???
Also, pay attention to all the things Raidah says about Joyce. Do you really think this can all just be explained away with jealousy? That it’s not something about the way Raidah views people in general, and just a personal moving-in-on-my-dude thing?
Also, note the ‘she’s a child’ – ‘he’s a child too’ – ‘oh, right’ exchange. Why the fuck is Raidah dating someone she considers a child???
Sarah is petty and mean against Raidah, Raidah is petty and mean against Sarah. Even if we let those things cancel each other out (even though they really aren’t remotely on the same level of petty cruelty), that still leaves Raidah’s attitude towards Jacob, Joyce and Dina to stand on its own…
Joyce had no issues talking with Joe about his parents divorce on their date and as for the child comment its probably more to do with Joyces fundie, home-schooled, naive upbringing then her actual age
Though Jacob and Joyce are similar in age they’re years apart in maturity
‘So, are you close with your family?’ “Yes- my parents live in [wherever], and I’ve got a brother.” And so on. It really, truly is not that hard to do. I know the general family size/shape of most of my coworkers, most because they’ve told me without prompting, and I don’t even take that much interest in some of them.
“And it adds nothing to the conversation.”
Right. Because nobody gives a shit about their families, it’s all just biological chutes we dropped out of with no influence on who we are as people.
Ehhhh
If youre not close with someone it’s safest to stay away from the topic of family. Any response apart from the one you gave Could lead to awkwardness and discomfort
“On the one hand, she’s the first one among anyone in this storyline to express any interest in what Jacob wants. While everyone else seems to be clapping for Joyce, or Sarah, or whatever Becky was trying to do before, nobody else seems to have asked Jacob anything, let alone tried to set about helping him achieve what he wants to achieve. ”
We haven’t seen Raidah do that either. We’ve seen her declare that she knows what Jacob wants. Not the same thing.
Point is, she’s aware of what his goals are. If they weren’t his goals (or a goal she assigned to him somehow), she couldn’t be “getting him to do what she wants” with it, because (not being anything he cared about) he’d shrug it off.
Sarah actually listened to what Jacob wanted. She heard him say he wanted a meaningful relationship, not the casual fun she was looking for and she backed off. She did go back after him when she found out he was with Raidah, but after paying enough attention to him to see his interest in Joyce, she decided to put her in his path instead.
She might not be accepting his choice of Raidah, which is still a problem, but she seems more aware of his interests and feelings than anyone else. Possibly including him.
Stretch. When Billie approved of the trick of throwing Joyce in his path, Sarah basically said she’d miss having the external conscience Billie’s cautionary example gives.
You don’t get credit for “If I can’t break you up, I’ll send someone who can.”
The point is still that Sarah calmed her own thirst because Jacob expressed he was uncomfortable with that kind of thing. It’s still a thing that happened.
That’s how I understood it. The whole reason she switched her plan to getting him to fall for Joyce was because she recognized that she and Jacob weren’t looking for the same thing in a relationship, but he and Joyce are
Still kinda crappy to do that out of spite, but less crappy than trying to break up his potentially long-term relationship just to have sex with him a couple times.
“Besides, this would be a very good way to cover any feeling of vulnerability. ”
That’s an interesting point. How much of Raidah’s shittiness is from feeling superior and how much is from fear of feeling *inferior*? I guess we won’t find out unless she gets upset enough for the fear to show.
I wonder if it’s okay to leave questions here that about the characters but not relevant to today’s strip.
I have a question about Joyce’s beliefs and her (former?) church congregation: was anti-semitism rampant?
I’ve been reading some awful Jack Chick comics and there’s this theme that the Jewish people are responsible for the death of Jesus and that they personally sold him out to the Romans out of spite or malice or something. Since Joyce reads and distributes chick tracts, does she believe this too?
From the comic we’ve seen that she’s okay with Jewish people (Ethan and Joe) because she thinks they have the foundation to become Christian, and we also know she’s not a hateful person. But she could have still been taught awful things in her church, so I’m wondering about that
There was actually a strip where Joyce’s parents said Hitler was half-Jewish so, probably.
I would guess Joyce had a homeschooling upbringing utilizing something like ACE (Accelerated Christian Education) that resulted in a lot of doublethink and teaching the students to ignore cognitive dissonance. So Jews can be evil when necessary but suddenly become good when someone points out that Jesus was himself originally Jewish.
ACE/PACE is so incredibly weird and creepy it actually crosses the threshold into being funny. Here’s some actual screenshots from PACE textbooks:
“Obey your husband, always!” works until he does something that deviates from the “correct path.” Like join the wrong church, hold the wrong ideas on politics etc. Let alone if he turns out to be abusive, won’t deal with problem behaviours he engages in etc.
eeeeewwww. weird and creepy indeed. :/ the first few links were bad enough to be funny, but then it just gets creepy and disturbing – actual kids are being taught this shit? 🙁
Lots of doomsday prophets died via crucifixion. What made Yeshua ben Joseph longlived is the writings of Paul. If Christianity hadnt spread to the gentiles, it would have died in Jerusalem in 70AD.
I know I can’t compare, but this Raidah-relationship viewpoint at the moment feels slightly more creepy than the whole religious-fanatics thing that has been a thread. Maybe because I have an even harder time to believe people at that age might in reality think like that…
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#WINNING
I would have preferred *BAMF*, but this is fine too.
There’s still probably a whiff of brimstone in the air.
I’m convinced Sarah teleported, just to the wrong place. Joyce did about 2 minutes ago. Who’s it gonna be next?
Teleporting of age
Nononono. What Joyce did is called folding.
It’s like teleporting, but marginally more sciency and definitely more retreaty.
Speaking of ways, pet, by the way, there is such a thing as a tesseract.
One of my favorite books, growing up.
Actually, she hitched a ride on the magic mushroom tardigrade network.
Guys, it’s obvious what happened, and it has nothing to do with teleportation, magic mushrooms, or folding space-time. Sarah borrowed a dinosaur hat from Dina and took it off between panels three and four, thereby becoming noticeable again.
Are you saying the hat popped off her head?
toaster-ding.wav
Did…did Sarah hear all that?
I imagine she likely did, given the ominous gloat she intended to bust out.
Sarah…
Sarah, no.
Not even Double Ruths can convince me Sarah isn’t perfect right now.
Sarah’s being shitty. The gloating would be nice, but the entire endeavor is still shitty.
I don’t get why everyone think of this whole thing as seriously threatening Jacob’s couple. This precise ridiculous TV-comic-version-head-alien-like gloating try from Sarah anchors in me the idea that she’s not putting any effort in breaking up Raidah. She didn’t even put much effort into seducing Jacob for herself.
If anything in Joyce can win Jacobs heart over Raidah, it’s her freshness and integrity, and to be honest, if it’s really integrity and freshness that interests Jacob, Raidah did it to herself with her lines here….
Trying to do something bad – that you know is bad, as Sarah has been shown to, in her moments of lucidity and conscience – is bad, whether you actually succeed or not. There’s a reason that “attempted ____” is a charge.
Attempted X is a charge basically in cases where the damages are so high that a court can’t expect the guilty party to simply pay those damages. At least, that’s what the book Law’s Order says.
It probably won’t do anything to their relationship apart from making Raidah more jealous which might add tension to their relationships. People here are more concerned that Sarah entertained the idea and followed through with it while ignoring Jacob’s agency and the imlact on him, and the fact that Joyce and Billie seemed to be completely okay with it.(though I suspect that Joyce may have a change of heart soon.) About the ridiculousness of Sarah’s gloating, this comic is very punchline-y, and it doesn’t have to be 100% realistic. If that was the case, it’d probably be a lot more boring
*impact
I think that Raidah doesn’t know Jacob as well as she thinks she does. Sure, he wants to make his family proud, but I’m pretty sure he doesn’t view their relationship in the cold-blooded terms that Raidah is relying on. I’d go so far as to suggest that Raidah’s response here would really distress him. He’s too genuine for that.
Well, you’re right. Sarah isn’t putting in a lot of effort towards breaking up Jacob and Raidah, nor is she putting a lot of effort towards launching the S/S Joycob. She doesn’t have to!
All she needed to do was point Joyce in Jacob’s general direction and let things happen naturally. So far her scheme is being a huge success.
“Ominous Gloat Face” is the name of my new band.
Bandsies!
…Yeah, I should have read through the comments before my first post.
I read it as Ominous Goat Face.
A BETTER name for a new band.
Gloaty McGloatface
heeheeheeehee (Will I ever get tired of BoatyMcBoatface jokes? Signs apparently point to no. I will never get tired of them.)
Nobody will.
I bet Jacob’s backstory is lurking just behind another one of those cairs.
I bet. There’s no backstory that can’t be mined and expanded for more tears.
*chairs
Actually Jimmy Hoffa is. “I’ve been hiding here since 1977!”
Considering how many NFL stadia have been torn up the last forty years, I’d figger someone would have found Hoffa by now.
He wasn’t perfectly hidden.
Someone saw him.
….
But that’s okay. No one listens to J. Hoffa’s Witnesses.
*flees for dear punning life*
Ha! 😀
Wow, that was good, nicely done. Now, I have to ask, did you just think of that, or have you been saving it for years, waiting for your chance to use it?
Doesn’t get to show off the new expression she spent (hours, days?) perfecting
“Now I’ll need to find another excuse to use it!…Ooh! Hey, Other Rachel, Call heads or tails!”
“Um…heads?”
*coinflip*
“HA! Tails!” Ominous Gloat Face
Sarah is climbing my favorite list at pretty incredible speed, given how high she was already.
I wonder if Raidah ever considered just what she might be in for if Sarah ever got sick of the abuse and started fighting back?
Given that this storyline is about Sarah trying to break up Raidah’s (apparently happy) relationship out of pure spite, I have to think you got those names backwards.
No, no. timemonkey’s just wondering if Raidah saw this coming.
Uh, no? Because Raidah has been attacking Sarah for a year? That’s kinda been the whole reason Raidah’s been in the comic up until her relationship with Jacob was revealed.
Raidah called Sarah a bongo when the latter woman was just eating her lunch. (Maybe not that specifically). Sarah left the cafeteria in response.
If anything, this IS Sarah being sick of the abuse and fighting back. You know, just passive aggressively
Well, considering that Sarah already punched her, and then Raidah opted to finally leave her alone after Sarah apologized for it, I’d say she probably has?
I doubt she realizes how horrible she’d been, or that Sarah might still pursue a more subtle means of revenge
Did she really said she will leave her alone? I mean, I thought she just forgived Sarah for punching her. (And then still used it as example for Jacob to explain how toxic Sarah is).
She obviously still can’t stand Sarah, but the way she described it to Jacob made it sound like she had recognized that it was best for her to just stay away from Sarah, and she hasn’t approached Sarah since then.
Going up to Sarah and calling her trash at every opportunity definitely didn’t feel like she’d “cut Sarah out of her life” up until that point. She also didn’t even mention Sarah punching her at first, it only came up after Jacob pressed for more details about what happened.
I feel like the way she never tried to talk Jacob out of hanging out with Sarah also supports the idea that she’d called a cease-fire.
But she HAD tried to talk Jacob out of hanging out with Sarah! Just not as directly (and offensive) as when she tried with Dina. She is more subtle about it, but her actitud with Sarah is no different than before.
I mean, from Raidah’s perspective, Sarah is a grumpy misanthrope who callously betrayed their mutual friend who seemed to be doing well for her own personal gain, so of course she’d warn people about Sarah, because for her, becoming friends with Sarah is going to inevitably result in pain. In her mind she’s probably thinks she’s saving them from being hurt by Sarah. From her view leaving Sarah alone doesn’t include warning people about her because she feels that she’s obligated to warn people about the danger of friendship with Sarah.
For us it looks like nothing’s really changed, but to Raidah this is probably a huge change and counts as a ceasefire.
Raidah doesn’t even consider Sarah a worthy opponent. Sarah’s there on scholarship and is therefore a peasant, destined to be as assistant to someone like Raidah. Born on at least second base and in contempt of those who have to work the count to even reach first.
Jacob is a prize that she deserves, not someone she actually cares about.
Refreshing to see someone who doesn’t let their eventual insecurities about their relationship govern their rationality. It’s such a worn out cliche in comics to have people doubt their partners to the point it makes you wonder why they’re a couple to begin with and I’m glad to see Raidah doesn’t fall into that cliche. Presuming she’s being genuine of course.
That’s a pretty generous reading, I’d argue. It’s not that Raidah thinks Jacob cares about her and is a decent person, just that he wouldn’t cheat with someone so far *beneath him*
Right. Her confidence is not in Jacob’s good character, but in her ability to out-compete Joyce.
Potato, potato but pronounced differently? She IS still avoiding that cliche of being insecure in her relationship, if only because she’s got a fucked up view of what is keeping her relationship safe. Her rationality is perfectly intact, she’s just coming from a bunch of horrible base assumptions.
A fair point. It is possible I’m so tired of the cliche that I let that influence how I read the page.
I keep trying to give Raidah the benefit of the doubt. It’s not working out for me so far.
I was completely fine with Raidah up until these last 2 comics, but now I’ve lost all respect for her.
“Live up to the standards of his family” eh? I hope this turns out the way I think it does with the direction Joyce’s family seems to be going.
Yeah I don’t rlly want a repeat of what he went through in shortpacked
Sarah is the Grinch
Making Joyce into Max, the helpful tagalong who likes everyone, even the supposedly unlovable?
(Please note I am not calling Joyce a dog .)
I know Joyce’s personal reasons may not be the most “aspiring” or whatever, but it always ruffles my feathers when someone uses education majors like that.
It’s supposed to. We’re getting that insight into Raidah people wanted and it’s not pretty.
While I agree with you, and there are many good people who get into education because they really want to be educators; there is some validity to that opinion. When I was in Uni, I encountered a surprising number of people who were in education because they couldn’t handle whatever their original major was, it was the backup major. And all I could think was: and these people are going to be teaching my kids? And the really scary part, the ones who couldn’t hack education went into physical education, which explains so much about some of the gym teachers I had inflicted on me.
It’s okay, Sarah, I like your gloat face.
…double yikes. I can’t really articulate why this “he needs me to be successful, he can’t do it on his own and no one else can fill the role I occupy” attitude bothers me, but it sure does. It’s kind of condescending towards Jacob while at the same time implying a kind of worrying codependency, I guess? Idk, Cerb will be able to words it out better than I can.
Like this definitely implies thinking of Jacob as a project rather than an equal.
That said: imagine an eventual Dorothy vs Jacob presidential run
I just keep having thoughts so this thread is just gonna keep getting longer I guess
Does this imply she thinks Jacob doesn’t believe in angels? It’s just a bit of an odd comment to make given that he does seem to have sincerely held beliefs about this kind of thing.
huh. good point.
Also, I guess that means she doesn’t believe in angels, which I guess is reasonable, but the angel Gabriel visiting Muhammad was like…a pretty big thing for the development of Islam. Though I guess her comments suggest that she just goes with a less literal interpretation of scripture compared to Joyce.
Yeah. And I guess there’s nothing specifically saying Jacob doesn’t take a metaphorical view of scripture, but I feel like that would’ve come up at some point, y’know?
Well, I couldn’t really see them on opposing sides once it was actually for the presidency…unless by the time that happens we’ve done away with this two-party system, which, at the rate of this comic…one can hope.
Could be in a primary?
Yeah, I was thinking primary, but then I thought it’d be better to imagine the system changing.
You have an impressively strong imagination.
Then we maybe as well forget getting such a head executive. I mean federations can work other ways, isn’t it? So they could be both representative for a certain group of persons. But I’m rather sure I’d vote for Jacob over Dorothy as he seems to be trying to express what other thinks over what himself thinks, and she seems to give more some kind of benevolent ruler vibe to me. But anyway, it wouldn’t matter, because, you know, imperative and revocable mandates…
It could be a primary!
There’s kinda the biggest issue I’ve been going on and on about for effectively my entire adult life (and note I’m pushin’ ever closer to 40). So long as we stick to using a party system we’ll just keep getting more and more entrenched in the type of increasingly radicalized factionalization that has been the hallmark of the US political system across my entire life. The catch-22 is that we need to remove this system in order to fix the problems, yet also need to fix the problems in order to have any chance of electing officials who would do the requisite work to remove the system making the prospect a nonstarter unless all the existing major parties disintegrate concurrently.
Good luck. You’ll need a complete rewrite of the Constitution to do that.
Paradoxically, the best way would likely be to formalize the role of parties, as seen in some parliamentary systems. Give them formal roles and you can control them. Otherwise they’re an inevitable dominant part of any first past the post electoral system.
I thought the original intent of the U.S. system was that it was not supposed to be a party based system, it actually was supposed to be based on individual merit, not party affiliation?
Parties are less the problem than money. Even Al Franken says he spends most of his day fundraising for his next election.
The next rewrite of the constitution will only make it worse and the .1% have it in the works.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/10/21/a-constitutional-convention-could-be-the-single-most-dangerous-way-to-fix-american-government/?utm_term=.1b2044e21f66
We should be so lucky. 🙁
As a project, and also as an object. It’s starting to seem as though Raidah no more wants Jacob for himself and as a life companion than Sarah does. Sarah wants to use Jacob for sex despite his disinclination. Joyce wants to use him as an instrument with with to inflict distress upon Raidah. And Raidah is starting to looks as though she wants him as a status symbol and as a stepping-stone to the yet-unexplained prestige of his family.
Perhaps he’ll meet someone nice.
No, Joyce seems to genuinely want a partner for Sarah, Sarah is the one who wants to inflict distress on Raidah at any cost. But maybe soon Joyce’s intent will be changing?
I think we know exactly what Joyce wants.
She is thirsty
Ah, but does Joyce know what Joyce wants?
Doesn’t make it any less shitty.
Raidah’s doing the right things for the wrong reasons. Joyce is doing the wrong thing for the right reasons. Sarah’s the only one purely motivated by wrong here, and even then she’s right that Raidah doesn’t deserve Jacob if she views him as a trophy.
Yeah they’re all wrong, but we kinda know that both Raidah and Jacob see the relationship similarly, so they sort of deserve each other. Kinda.
Yeah, she said it herself – grape juice.
Even so…. Deliberately and surreptitiously breaking up Jacob’s relationship for Sarah’s gratification is not a righteous motivation or the act of a nice person.
I’m not sure I agree with that, but it’s also not the point I was making.
I acknowledge your point: that I mis-stated Joyce’s motivation.
I think the basis for her comment is more that she is the kind of partner his family would have picked out for him, while they’ll disapprove of Joyce because she’s not the Right Kind Of Person.
It also reminds me of when Jacob said that Raidah checks all the boxes on his matching list.
It very much seems like both of them are getting into a seemingly romantic relationship for very much non-romantic reasons. Neither of them seem to think of the other as an actual person, but instead someone who simply -must- be right for them because they possess the qualities desired; rather than just being “Oh hey, I think I like you.” “Yeah, turns out I like you too.”
And considering that even Dorothy is with Walky simply because she fell for him and started caring for him, it really makes this relationship seem cold and sterile in comparison.
Hopefully Jake’s gotten a taste of what actual chemistry is today!
yeah… it’s almost like this relationship is a facade to keep them “off the market” and focused on their grades. kinda like someone pretending to be a lesbian’s “boyfriend” to protect them from homophobic parents? o.0
Now Joyce uses her experience to capitalize on that.
Well, we don’t know how romantic (physically demonstrative variant) Jacob/Raidah are. I was wondering with yesterday’s strip how much fooling around* they do. Jacob’s previous opionions expressed about sex makes me think he’s joined with Raidah after both agreeing that that wasn’t to be a big part of things for them right now.
But how little of their relationship is it at all? Have we even seen them kiss? I want to find out more of what they see in each other, and if Joyce is a disruptor because she’s so different emotionally from Raidah.
(*Whatever they define it as)
Very much this! Their relationships seems to be about what they are supposed to want and the expectations of others, not about who they really are underneath that baggage. It seems like the facade is already starting to break down a little for Jacob. We are getting glimpses underneath that of what he might really desire in a relationship deep in his heart. And Joyce seems to be a good fit for that.
Cerb is awesome and she will undoubtedly have the most perceptive take on this.
What strikes me is that Raidah is certain that she knows what Jacob wants, and that she knows what Jacob needs to achieve his goals, and that she is also certain that he needs her to achieve all that. Red flags, anyone?
In my mind, Cerb is basically a young Granny Weatherwax minus… I’m not sure what word I want to use. The bitterness? But Esme’s not so much bitter as.. cranky? Hrn.
Regardless yes, Cerb is awesome.
So Joyce is an education major? Does that mean she’s no longer going to college for her MRS degree?
She’s an education major with the idea basically being that it will make it easier for her to homeschool her own kids. I’d really be interested in seeing her reflect on her choice of major at this point in the comic.
She’s always been an education major. It’s a popular choice (even today) for women who are going to school to find a husband; it’s a throw-back to the days when women were expected to stop teaching school once they got married. The (expected) benefit of that is the woman is (theoretically) better able to homeschool her children if their family deems the public school unfit and private schools are too expensive or belong to a different denomination.
An education major makes it easier to get approved as a homeschool teacher, is probably why she’s going for it. She doesn’t actually have to declare it yet, though, and has plenty of time to change towards fighter piloting and mac n’ cheese studies.
I mean, it probably is declared for her. Generally you’re asked your major pretty early on, like at least by orientation. And you can say undeclared, but it seems like Joyce had enough of an impression of the “right” major for her that she would have declared it, though she still has plenty of time to change.
See, this might be a State thing, or “private vs public” education thing, but I have never heard of anyone being required to declare their major at orientation. I was required to declare my major sometime within the second semester of sophomore year, and was expected to have no clue about my major during freshman year. That being said, I was a scholarship student in California, so maybe things are different elsewhere.
Yeah, I kind of assume my school’s approach would be similar to IU’s approach, since they’re both large, public colleges in the Midwest. But it was absolutely expected you have some idea what major you were going into by the time you started college. As for how common that is, I’m pretty sure everyone I knew had some kind of declared major freshman year as well. That’s not to say it can’t change, and it often does, but there’s a lot of pressure to pick something. Plus, I mean, I was taking classes to fulfill major-specific requirements by my freshman year, so I needed to have a major in mind.
Oh, and I mentioned orientation specifically because that was when we first met with our academic advisor, which was based on what major we were in.
Huh! My school was closer to Rukdug’s experience. We had a sorta tentative unofficial major for freshman year that nobody expected us to keep, then we actually declared mid-sophomore year. But not all schools do it that way — I stand corrected.
That would have been so much more useful. We got our academic advisors assigned at random until we declared our major, so sometimes we would have taken classes that were not needed or missed ones that were because of that.
She’s an education major to learn how to homeschool her children . . . whose good Christian father she hoped to meet at college.
Hopefully when she evolves a bit more she’ll opt to teach in an actual school when the time comes. Her reasons gor picking the major are icky but it does seem like a suitable major for her. She seems like she’d be a good teacher. I could easily picture her as world’s best kindergarten teacher.
Everybody’s teleporting nowadays. Maybe this really is Hogwarts.
You can not apparate or disapparate on Hogwarts grounds!
And for remembering that reference, you are my hero, TM. 😀
Nah. This is clearly where you go after you graduate from the Xavier School for Gifted Youngsters.
I’m starting to lose focus on Sarah’s plan with that grin. Wasn’t the plan to get Jacob attracted to her? Or has it turned into a general “If Raidah ain’t happy than I’m happy” arrangement?
The plan has been to break up Raidah and Jacob– using Joyce– for a while now.
Goddamn I cannot keep track of the plot. Thanks
Avatar checks out.
It has long since turned into a “anything goes so long as Raidah is unhappy” plan, yes.
At this point, Joyce is the only one even nominally trying to get Jacob and Sarah together. Sarah just wants to have him dump Raidah (that’s been her desire since the party), Becky seems to want to hook him up with Joyce (which is also Sarah’s main tactic for breaking up him and Raidah, but the actual hookup is incidental as long as he dumps R).
It was until she realized what they wanted was not compatible. I think Sarah is telling herself that if he ends up with Joyce it won’t be as bad as if she used him for a one night stand and to hurt Raidah.
I think it’s more that she thinks it’s a more practical approach, since Jacob isn’t interested in the one night stand thing.
And probably also that it’ll make her little sister happy.
New gloatface might wanna hang back for a bit.
Raidah is pretty serious about Jacob. Does he know he’s signed on for this, so to speak?
You’re Eyes Without a Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace
Am I the only one getting the feeling that there is indeed someone in today’s strip who might not know Jacob as well as she thinks she does?
No. And I think one I’m thinking of isn’t interested in Jacob for the reason she pretends, either. Poor kid is surrounded by stripey forest antelope.
Those chairs seriously need their own tag. :p
“Ominous Gloat Face” is my new band name!
So, in other words, Raidah – you (like Joyce) went to school to find a husband, but you expect yours to be wealthy and successful as well as good-looking.
Yeah, Joyce’s no threat at all.
Especially since Joyce has a nice rack but doesn’t have a bongo attached to the back of it. :p
Look, without wanting to be rude… bongo is maybe not a good word to use here, given the racist connotations?
It’s a censor for a sexist slur around here. So like, trading one kind of unfortunateness for another?
BUT, if you ignore the problematic bits, it does give you the image of a drum with breasts attached to it, which is pretty fantastically silly.
Or grotesquely horrifying, I guess.
I’d vote for grotesquely horrifying.
…and then a few days later, I’ll probably find a drum with breasts randomly on Deviant Art and find myself hating life a bit more.
Since when is the b-word (don’t wanna be censored) a slur?
The b-word that means “female dog”? It has been a slur ever since it was first applied to a woman.
I’ve got to say it’s weird hanging around dog people. A friend of mine is a dog breeder and when she has her friends from there around, it’s weird to have this nice older ladies talking about bongos every other sentence.
Even when I know what they mean.
I suspect that’s part of why they use the word 😉
Honestly, I doubt it.
It really is just the accepted term in that sub culture.
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that you’re relatively new to the comment section.
Ahhhhhh.
I mean, you’re apparently a practicing Muslim, Raidah, so I’m pretty sure that at least on some level, you think angels are real too. As does Jacob, for that matter.
Eh, not necessarily. Religion might be more of a cultural/good guide for moral behavior thing for her, without buying into the supernatural elements.
Identity, ethics, history, rituals… there’s lots more to religion than belief.
don’t forget networking! 😉
I would’ve said “community” but you’re absolutely right that’s how Raidah might think of it!
Not forgetting, of course, that one can have identity, ethics, history, and rituals without requiring religion…
Sure, there are other routes to each of those things. But Raidah is Muslim.
We don’t know yet how devout Raidah is, or what parts of Islam she might have problems with. Other than that goes to Friday services, and she doesn’t wear a hijab, we don’t know much else about her personal practices.
Doublethink about religion is very common. A great many people manage to consider themselves worthy and observant adherents of traditional religions by steadfastly refusing to think about substantial portions of those religions’ canonical beliefs. Even the Bible-thumpers who insist that homosexuality must be condemned because of Leviticus 18:22 don’t support conducting homicide investigations according to the procedure set out in Deuteronomy 21:1–5.
And then there’s the Prosperity Gospel folks, who are basically the modern incarnations of the only people Jesus actually got *angry* at.
Or, hopefully, killing a child for backtalking their father as I recall Leviticus also says.
I am sorry to tell you that there are people who at least say they want the right to do that, and to their children they say it. But I don’t know of anyone who wants to kill a perfectly good heifer instead of investigating each murder.
It’s not even necessarily double think. Different denominations have very different canonical beliefs. Different traditions, different interpretations and understandings.
It’s kind of fun to poke fun at the Biblical literalists for not actually taking the Bible literally, but that’s by way of pointing out they’re not really literalists (As if there’s any way to read a complex millenia old text written over generations from multiple viewpoints “literally”, but I digress.) Most denominations don’t even claim to be literalists.
I’m sure she’s also aware “some level” goes all the way to “not at all”.
Going into a religiously-themed community center on a set schedule =/= actually believing there’s a magic man in the sky.
Cultural practice of religion does not preclude one from being a stalwart atheist with a sense of smug superiority that appears to be Raidah’s natural state.
Nor does actual religious faith conflict preclude the smug sense of superiority. Even a smug sense of superiority over someone else’s more literal and simplistic faith.
Think of all the old missionaries clutching their crucifixes while laughing at the natives idol worship.
Yeah, I guess I just have more personal experience with smug atheists -_- I think at one point I started identifying as a Christian (and not ‘vague wobbly shrug’) just to spite the guy who came to a lecture at our school. Just for no other reason than ‘fuck that guy personally’
Raidah seems to have confused being self-assured with being overwhelmingly, malignantly arrogant.
It’s an easy mistake to make.
Why not both?
Because that’s where unrepentant jackasses are born. Also PUAs, abusers of all stripes, and presidential candidates.
(This comment was intended humorously, sorry if it comes off weird.)
“-PORT!”
Jeez, Raidah. You might consider the values of affection over career benefits…?
If Sarah’s Ominous Gloat Face isn’t somebody’s icon by the end of the day, I’m going to be very, very disappointed in all of you.
(Femurs may be at risk.)
As someone who has also crafted their own icon, I throw my support completely behind your statement.
Isn’t Raidah Muslim? She doesn’t believe in angels?
What?
I think Beef was confused about her lack of belief in angels since they are part of Islam.
She mocks Joyce for believing in angels but they’re kind of a big deal in Islam. Unless she’s not Muslim and just goes to Friday prayer just because
Christianity defines its membership by what you believe way more than other religions. It’s special!
Raidah might define her Muslim identity with what she does, or what identity she is, not just what she believes.
Agreed… I mean, honestly, for a ton of people, your religion is just who you are, not necessarily what you believe. Mosque is just something you go to on Friday, you know? And especially when you consider the college environment, when a ton of people already are throwing aside their old faiths bit by bit.
It’s clear that in this context, Raidah is meaning Joyce’s belief in angels as a derogatory comment, part of her being a “ditzy Education major.” Like, ‘you’re so out-of-touch you believe in magic invisible people with wings’.
Raidah is really two-faced. She appears nice and polite all the time – to Jacob, to Billie, to Sarah at first. But her ‘elevator speech’ with Jacob, I think, is the closest we’ve ever seen to her true self. She’s completely assured of her own superiority. I’ve known a bunch of people like that – people who could never see their own faults, were full of themselves, and acted nice and kind not because they were nice and kind people, but because *that’s what good people do*. But being convinced of your own superiority means that you’re also convinced of others’ inferiority to you, and Raidah is shaping up to be, at heart, petty and manipulative.
I mostly agree with this comment, but I’m kind of confused by part of it.
“[who] acted nice and kind not because they were nice and kind people, but because *that’s what good people do*”
…There’s a difference?
They did it because it means they’re a good person and thus superior. They’re not actually nice and kind. They’re simply pretending to be, because by acting that way they are above others.
What was the philosophy again? For a selfish person to survive in an altruistic society, they must convince themselves they’re altruistic?
There’s a difference because it’s about -yourself looking good-, not actually taking other people’s feelings about consideration. The only feeling that interests you is how they feel about -you-, not their actual wellbeing.
‘Doing what a good person would do’ is a good guideline when you’re trying to be good to other people but because of empathy deficiency have no intuitive idea how to do that and have to rely on pre-made algorhythms.
Raidah doesn’t even do that. What she does is ‘say what good people would say’. Her actions are not actions of a good person (see: the year-long bullying campaign against Sarah)
She could believe more in the values of Islam than in the supernatural aspects of it.
It’s super weird to me that Raidah is still seen as the villain here. As far as I can tell, the worst she did is stop hanging out with Sarah because she honestly thought Sarah was being super-selfish about one of her other (much closer) friends to the point of getting her pulled from school? That makes her wrong, but not a bad person I think, and it definitely doesn’t make her worse than Sarah, who’s trying to break up Raidah’s relationship out of pure spite.
She was awfully nasty in how she chose to break off the friendship with Sarah, she insulted Dina (not as badly as Charlotte, but it still wasn’t great), her comments in the last couple of strips seem to suggest she sees Jacob as much as a potential accessory to her future successful life as an actual partner…I think it’s fair to say she’s not the outright villain Sarah wants her to be, but there’s plenty there to dislike.
Idk, can you genuinely say Raidah’s been a pleasant and likeable person the past two strips?
She didn’t just break off the friendship, she actively bullied Sarah and has been deliberately sabotaging Sarah’s attempts to make new friends.
No, I don’t think Raidah’s likable at all, but she’s also not deliberately sabotaging other people’s happiness out of malice? Sarah’s clearly the one in the wrong here, IMO, and to be honest she comes across at least as unpleasant as Raidah.
To wit: Sarah’s big deal about not making friends was that she needed all the time she could get to study, but she *does* have time to follow Raidah around and wait for her relationship to implode. Those aren’t the priorities of a pleasant and likable person.
Okay, are you forgetting the times Raidah tried to drive the others away from Sarah? It’s part of why Dinah doesn’t like Raidah either.
*time, singular. And again, from Raidah’s perspective, Sarah sabotaged one of her friends’ lives for her own benefit. She’s (partly) wrong about that, but given that she believes it, why *wouldn’t* she try to warn people away from her? Sure, it’s petty, but when you consider that from Sarah’s perspective, she’s deliberately sabotaging the happiness of someone who she knows to be wrong but well intentioned, I don’t see how Raidah’s the bad person in this situation.
Taking Dina aside and saying “you might not want to hang out with Sarah, here’s why” would be warning people away from her. Approaching the two of them in public and mocking both of them is just being a huge fucking asshole.
No, “times” plural. Multiple examples are given a bit further down this thread.
When you try to drag someone away against their will, I know who is actually sabotaging people’s lives for their own benefit. I don’t tolerate assault.
She totally sabotages peoples’ happiness out of malice. Not only has she committed a year long campaign of social sabotage against Sarah, her first appearance is telling Sarah she wishes she were dead:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/02-uphill-from-here/taken/
“[T]he one in the wrong”…. There can be more than one person in the wrong.
I see Jacob as the good guy here, and all the women who are trying to use him, and their supporters, as unrighteous.
In her first appearance Raidah approached Sarah in a public space (and a largely unavoidable space, especially to someone like Sarah who’s there on scholarships) specifically to harass her. In her second appearance Raidah approached Sarah in a public space specifically to harass her, and then tried to drive Sarah’s “friend” off because Sarah doesn’t deserve friends, and then mocked said “friend” for being “mentally-challenged” while using her as a prop to make Sarah feel bad, and as a fun bonus yelled at Sarah for walking away from the situation as if there was literally any other appropriate response. Like yeah, the whole of the situation’s more complicated than either of them make it out to be, and Sarah’s current behaviour is unacceptable, but Raidah has definitely done a shitload more than stop hanging out with Sarah.
All true
One of the best things about this comic (and any good piece of writing) is that most characters aren’t clearly defined as “villains” or “good guys.” We’re positioned to be more sympathetic of some, but just like in real life, these characters have layers, and can be both good and victims in some ways, but awful shitty bullies in others.
I don’t think Raidah is the villain any more than I think Sarah is. They’re both acting on grudges that they feel are personally justified based on past wrongs done to them (or to those close to them). Both their behavior is problematic, but also somewhat realistic in terms of what can happen when two stubborn people have a serious falling out.
It’s kind of a moral compass problem here: nobody (beside Mary and the dads + Ryan) is a villain nor a hero. To me, Raidah morals are more systemic than Sarahs, therefore more problematic. Sarah could ruin a realtionship (but not a life! I believe that we got the right to ave more than one romantic relationship in our life – and why not, polyamorous triangle/polygon could be a serious option in a few real-life years for Raidjoycob), but the class acting of Raidah is ruining lives as a system which she’s not sole responsible but still acting part of.
Raidah is not ‘the villain’ here. This is not the kind of situation with a defined ‘the villain’. Nobody is the villain, and nobody is the hero on the shining white horse. Knock this childishness off.
What Raidah is, however, is -gross-. Her relationship with Jacob, comparing her attitude right now with what she told him way back when, is built on 0% honestly and 100% manipulativeness. She disregards people as props, and thinks of destroying someone’s life as reasonable payback for not following the ‘bro code’ of their stoner social group.
This does not make Sarah’s childishness and pettiness about the situation any less childish and petty… but it does make it less -morally wrong-, because if she knows this about Raidah, she also knows that her relationships are not of the genuinely-attached-good-to-people-involved kind.
And of course, Sarah’s childishness and pettiness (borne out of Raidah’s own earier actions toward her, let’s not forget) does not in any way change facts about Raidah’s attitude towards Jacob and Joyce.
Did you forget the whole harassment campaign she lead against Sarah?
More or less what Betty Anne said. I don’t know Jack about Jacob’s backstory, but it’s starting to look like Raidah is some kind of social climber. I wonder how influencial Jacob’s family is?
If you think she’s not a threat, you don’t know him.
I KNEW IT! I always got the feeling her and Jacob’s relationship was more business-like than anything else. It’s just a feeling…but this more or less helps me understand my own gut instinct more
Ugh, honestly I hate this subplot and the comments section doesn’t make me any happier with it.
It’s not a good one, I can agree on that =/ I feel sorry for both Jacob and Joyce. Jacob’s being seen as more of an object than a person, while Joyce is just trying to help him get together with Sarah (I don’t remember if she knows about why Raidah and Sarah don’t like each other). I’m just worried about Joyce getting another painful lesson, in this case about trying to help in different ways.
I actually really like this plot, for many of the same reasons.
It’s complex. There aren’t clear good guys and bad guys. I mean, Raidah’s definitely coming off as a pretty unpleasant person – manipulative, focused on material and social success and dismissing others based on that, all set up long ago in her early appearances – bringing Sarah into their group with promises of law firm connections (that might have been Dana saying that, but the implication that they were all together for the networking remains), talking down to Dina, etc. Raidah’s a real piece of work.
But in this particular arc, she’s in the right and both Joyce and Sarah are not. And then there’s the conflict between Joyce’s official plan – help big sister with Jacob and her own crush on him.
This is all going to implode so awesomely.
And yes, Joyce has a big lesson to learn about her matchmaking and meddling in other people’s relationships. And she does know the Raidah/Sarah backstory, though I think she’s largely ignoring it and focusing on shipping Sarah/Jacob as motivation.
And it allows us to find out more about characters we don’t know much about. Jacob’s reaction to all of this, for me, is going to be particularly interesting because we’ve never seen him react in a truly bad situation and because it might provide more insight to his inner thoughts
Don’t worry Sarah. I’m sure you’ll find an opportunity soon to test drive your new ominous gloat face.
It’ll make a nice conversation piece at parties at least!
Maybe Jacob wants to partner with someone who he’s happy with and who makes him happy, rather than an ambitious classist.
(Does anyone doubt that Raidah would have been sorted into Slytherin?)
She could also be a Gryffindor, being assholes at people they think deserve it, taking rivalries too far, being completely bullheaded and refusing to admit thy might be wrong. Hits all the negative traits of the house.
She doesn’t think of people as people, rather as stepping stones, obstacles or decorations.
I don’t know what house this is. My gut tells me that this attutide could fit both Ravenclaw and Slytherin, maybe even Hufflepuff… but one of the defining Gryffindor traits is -earnestness-. Their relationships with people are actual -relationships with people-, either as friends or enemies. Not… this.
So no, I don’t think Gryffindor.
Not necessarily I can think of at least two characters who only saw people, their own housemates even, as trophies rather than people.
Get her Sarah! Get her!
My question is what does Radiah have against education majors? Someone has to be able to teach the next generation or said generation will screw up. Teachers are an important thing. We know Joyce didn’t choose it for the purpose of getting a career in the field of education, but the emphasis put on word can’t help but make me read that in some sort of venemous sneer. Is this some sort of intellectual elitism? Because I just want to point out one can’t study law before someone else taught them how to read and write.
People love to hate on education majors. I think it was used as at least somewhat of a slam in this comic before, and I’ve definitely seen it used as an insult or joke in different forms of media. If Raidah’s saying that Jacob would want someone his family will see and “ambitious” and “going places” and all that, then there’s probably something there about her not seeing education majors as meeting that.
Maybe it’s the “Mrs degree” thing, maybe it’s the general lack of respect (and pay) that teachers (and other support roles) get.
Education is one of the lowest-paying majors. I think only Criminal Justice has a worse economic outlook than Education. It’s made even worse by the fact that you now need a Masters to get any kind of decent job in Education, which trashes the ROI on the degree even further.
Raidah is definitely right about Jacob needing to buckle down, law is massively oversaturated as well and you pretty much have to be top 10% now to get into a law school that will leave you even remotely employable.
Quite true on law schools. However, Jacob’s been pre-pre-law since 2010, and the outlook was different then.
(And I thought all the sliding timescale funnery was about how the video games in-universe are advancing at a year per “week”.)
In academic circles, there is a general perception that the intellectual rigor required of education majors is way below the intellectual rigor required of other academic disciplines.
Delving into why this perception exists is something I am not remotely qualified to do.
Speaking as an art major, basically any financially-low-on-the-totem-pole and seen as fun/less stressful/less serious (even if it actually can be very stressful) major often gets shit on by arrogant people in high-paying academic (business or scientific/medical) fields.
It’s kinda like how stay-at-home moms are assumed to have it super easy/not have “real jobs”/ have fun all day by those who don’t have lots of experience taking care of young children alone, even though I’d say their stress levels/challenges are often even more than what someone might face in a rigorous academic setting (I say this as a part-time freelancing mom who is baffled by how stay at home moms do it).
She’s classist.
My students often ask me why I choose to teach, because there are so many more paid jobs, and teachers always have shitty cars…
So I’d think it’s not as teaching is still seen as social prowess…
Education was the fall back major when I was in university, it was what you transferred into when you couldn’t hack engineering, or nuclear physics, or whatever you originally planned to major in. Sounds like it still might be.
Doesn’t… doesn’t Jacob believe angels are real? He seems pretty religious, and that’s one of the really commonly held beliefs even of people who don’t take the bible literally. Like, I know people who AREN’T religious and think angels are real, in a kind of hippie woo guardian angel sense.
Poor Jacob, man. That’s my main takeaway from this plotline. Poor, oblivious Jacob. Everyone around you kinda sucks.
I get the impression Raidah thinks little of Jacob’s beliefs (and may be more culturally Muslim than religiously Muslim herself) and probably tolerates them in a fairly patronizing way while rolling her eyes at them behind his back. :/
:\
Joyce is misguided but earnest, at least.
Still not sure what Yu-Gi-Oh! decks these kids would use. Yes, I think about this stuff a lot.
How about Magic: the Gathering deck colors?
I see Joyce as white/red, I think.
Sarah: totally blue deck. 🙂
Ruth would be… hm. Black/White or Black/Red, maybe? Raidah’s a Red deck, I think, possibly Red/Blue.
No idea what those colors do, or really anything about Magic.
Carla: Artifact/Colorless deck?
Definitely
Dorothy: white/green, with a lot of token stuff (buffs, littler monster hordes, etc)
Thinking about the “angels” line — it may well be that Raidah, if questioned on the topic, might explain that what she meant was that angels are real, but are only tasked to do important jobs, like conveying revelations to important prophets, or making annunciations of divinely-caused pregnancy to chosen virgins (I wasn’t sure until I checked, but Wikipedia “Jesus in Islam” says that Jesus, although not actually God himself in Islam, is a prophet stated to have resulted from a virgin birth. Religion; go figure.)
And given the above, maybe what Raidah thinks that Joyce thinks is that angels are everywhere doing all sorts of little tasks, like God’s own Boy Scout Troop. It would fit with Raidah being a classist — “[Joyce] thinks that angels are real [and doing things for unimportant people]”
It seems like a reasonable interpolation from her attitude and personality.
And Raidah might well imagine that Jacob shares her interpretation of angelology.
Or, as implied by others, it may well be that Raidah thinks of religion as being “useful”, and imagines that Jacob has the same attitude.
(c.f. : Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful. — Seneca the Younger (4? B.C. – 65 A.D.))
That is, Raidah sees herself (and Jacob) as being rulers, and Joyce as being “common”.
Bravo! Good analysis of Raidah. Nice reference to Seneca.
I dig that quote though
Yeah it might be specific context. Kind of like how someone can believe in “God” but might look down on/laugh at people who believe in God as a personified guy with long white beard sitting in the clouds, because the God they believe in is more abstract.
I’m not familiar with how Islam views angels, but regardless Raidah may be more culturally religious/spiritual, than literally dogmatic about Islam, so “angels” to her could be a metaphor or something and she thinks those who believe in literal personified angels are wrong.
I’m getting the ‘atheists are superior, this is an axiom that everyone reasonable surely can recognize’ vibe (paired with ‘going to church =/= believing in what’s said there’ and complete obliviousness/disregard for Jacob’s individuality and obvious affection for religion)
I think atheist is stretching it, though it’s possible I suppose. I think autogatos is more abstract, sophisticated vs literal/simplistic kind of thing.
All tying into her general classism.
as someone who works with this age demographic a lot my suspension of disbelief is being tested tbh. College kids just… dont talk like this. Not that I expect every single page to have perfect dialogue and it’s hard to give each character their own unique voice but……………………………….. yeah
I dunno, I knew quite a few that fell into the “oversure of themselves” category who could’ve easily sounded like this when I was in college.
Not to you, they don’t.
But among themselves, they might just talk based on how they think is reasonable to talk, borrowing heavily from pop culture and stereotypes.
Of course they talk to me in a different way. But I’m still there when they talk to each other, lol. I don’t work 1 on 1 with teens in this age demographic so I see a lot of their interactions with each other too. Often the dialogue is fine but this is definitely toeing outside of the “I’m forgetting how The Kids These Days talk”
I mean…it’s a drama comic. A lot of this stuff isn’t very realistic, it’s not meant to be. I mean, you don’t complain that desperate housewives is inaccurate to how real housewives behave
Content being realistic vs dialogue being realistic are two different topics.
It’s like I’m watching Legally Blonde
For one sec I thought the privacy chair was tagged, then I realized it was just ‘char’
Those chairs need their own tag, dang it.
i feel like this should be so easy to deal with in any healthy, trusting relationship. just, “hey, i think your new friend has a crush on you. can you be careful not to lead her on?” (or, if you’re poly, just have it be a non-issue). The fact that shit gets so schemey so fast certainly says something about this relationship that i’d otherwise been getting pretty good vibes from
Very true. That’s how it would go in Smarting of Age, and hopefully in our own lives, too.
I’d be fine with Jacob eventually learning about all these machinations and dumping the lot of them.
Honestly I would be so up for Smarting of Age as a parody version of DOA where characters make intelligent decisions and the whole thing is over in like ten pages.
Haha, I would read that!
In my mind, it’s just a waiting room, with most of the characters quietly waiting for their highly competent therapists.
(The therapist is Ninja Rick.)
Eeeyup. Raidah apparently only tells Jacob what he wants to hear, and has approximately 0% honesty in it.
Gross.
The best resolution for this arc is that Jacob ends up alone and reflects about the way he’s been relating to women. And doesn’t enter a relationship until next year, to say the least.
Because they’re all wrong here and it’s not fair to him.
That’s… not outside the realm of possibility.
One can hope, right?
That … honestly does sound healthiest for him, really.
We even know this has been an issue before. Jealous ex girlfriends?
This whole problem isn’t his doing but the fact he’s oblivious isn’t helping either.
I’ve suggested before that the line about jealous exes might be a hint that this is a trend with Jacob – close flirty relationships with girls with serious crushes on him. And him mostly oblivious and innocently wondering why his girlfriend is getting upset.
Why does Jacob need to reflect on that? The way he relates to women seems super-healthy and positive.
Honestly yeah
It does, except he seems to be consistently in suboptimal relationships, it’s I think the intent of the comment. Maybe we’re expecting too much of relationships tho
Based on his own admittance his jealous exes and what we’re seeing here, he seems to have a poor handle on defining the line between friendly and flirty. Just because it’s Joyce and just because they get along doesn’t make it okay.
Hell, he’s the best dude in the comic so far, but neither he’s playing them or he has a naivety to him that’s a bit worrying.
That sounds more like he’s had a run of bad girlfriends. Trial and error is the only way to find something that works, short of being extremely lucky.
Nothing has happened between him and Joyce that would be inappropriate between friends.
And OF COURSE he’s a bit naive, he’s like 18. Everyone is a bit of a dumbass at that age. Even the smart ones. That he’s so focused on classes and his long term goals only makes it easier for him to miss the subtle cues that reveal someone is flirting.
Hell, I’m nearly 35 and I STILL manage to be completely oblivious to women flirting with me most of the time.
“That sounds more like he’s had a run of bad girlfriends. ”
while that is possible, it’s still worth noting that when someone has the same complaint about *all* their exes, it’s a red flag.
but yeah, he’s 18, so “all” might have been, like, two. insufficient sample size. 🙂
It’s not real life, it’s a story. There are no (well, few) coincidences. There are hints and foreshadowing. This might be that.
Tbh, I want this outcome because it feels like what Jacob needs. Like, Joyce at least isn’t trying to do it spitefully by tearing people to shreds, but still no, you shouldn’t be doing this thing Joyce, while in general I just don’t abide by partners doing what Raidah is of squashing jealousy only by tearing someone else down instead of communicating ‘hey, turns out I do feel jealousy, can we talk about it’.
But then he never will… ;_;
Yyyyyyyeesh. From her past appearances, I thought Raidah was basically okay.
She has good qualities, but perceived wrongs bring out the worst in her. Also she’s very classist and arrogant, though that was easy to miss at first.
The funny thing is, none of that justifies Sarah and Joyce’s actions. She could be the shittiest human on campus and still it would be wrong for them to try and break her and Jacob up.
I agree with your position, but not your argument for it.
What argument would you use? Honestly curious here.
I’m totally willing to change my mind.
You’re forgetting ableist (even if not the worst out of her friends), condescending and spiteful (these traits are shown by her assuming Dina was mentally challenged, talking down to her, and telling her Sarah would be a bad friend right in front of Sarah’s face, alongside other instances such as Raidah randomly telling Sarah to choke early on just because she felt like it and Raidah accepting an apology about an event, but then repeating said event to Jacob as if they had not resolved it to purposely reflect Sarah negatively).
Raidah does not appear to see other people as people. Jacob is property to be guarded from thieves, Joyce is a nobody, Sarah is a pity project turned traitor, Dina is… I’m not even going to go there.
I can’t blame Sarah for going ‘this girl does not deserve to dupe people into relationship with her by pretending to be decent because of knowing all the right things to say’.
Because that’s the thing: Raidah knows all the right things to say, but chooses to act like… well, like this.
Jacob can do better. Anyone who’s not her exact copy can do better. It’s hard to disagree with Sarah, in context of her probably having known this about Raidah all along.
Sure, Sarah is childish about it. But the basic intuitive reasoning is solid.
^ This.
Now I see why the university bought those chairs. They are just so useful. Amber can form an isolation chamber and Sarah has a nice place to play hide & gloat.
Thinking about this more, since Jacob is reasonably intelligent and for the most part, kind hearted (from what we’ve seen) – I’m wondering now if perhaps he already knows/has inklings regarding Joyce. If I recall right, he’s preparing to become a lawyer (or doc, I’m suddenly not certain…) and while anyone can be oblivious, considering his desire to impress his family somehow, I’d think that perhaps he might have at least have some idea of Joyce’s potential ‘flirting’ or even plots with Sarah. Joyce is naive enough, but Jacob has been mentioned to have siblings, and siblings always plot against one another.
I might be reading too far into this though. By this reasoning, it stands to note that Jacob might actually be seeing what the girls are up to (Joyce and Sarah at least), and just goes along as if opening Joyce’s mind to his religion – a point that they basically agree with in general.
As cute as Jacob and Joyce are to me, I’d love them being friends either way. Joyce would apologize, I think, if things were to escalate with Raidah – but now that Sarah knows…well, who knows there. She tends to try and do the right thing, abrasive as she is, and we know that she cares about Joyce.
Sad to see that Jacob’s basically being used as a trophy even now with Raidah – I’m interested to see if he’s fully aware of this or oblivious because of his desires to impress his family.
Also shame on Raidah for the playing right into the “I’m the best for him because it’ll impress his family” – I know this first hand regarding family ideals where you’ll…never impress them. Maybe a little, sure, but in the end, it’s never enough. That may even backfire in Jacob and Raidah’s little ideal world they’ve set themselves up for – since her religion is different than his – and families are the first ones to crit that.
Of course, it might not matter either since I don’t think we’ve seen Jacob’s parents. Arg, character interpretations! My one weakness!
It wouldn’t surprise me if Jacob and Raidah have talked about their relationship and how they want to handle it and what they want out of it and are totally cool with the arrangement. They have both talked about the relationship as a stepping stone of sorts after all.
I sure would like to see more of his take into the whole debacle. Him being more than oblivious eye candy would make this more tolerable.
I actually just started going back through some of the Jacob tag to try and find the strip where he was explaining his relationship with Raidah to…I think Joyce, but it’s late so I’m not certain.
What I did find was some of his opinions regarding being seen as only a dehumanized sex object (harkening back to Shortpacked) to Joyce and Joe, where he complimented Joyce on her relationship with Ethan – I find that interesting, since it’s what he’s not saying about his past relationships.
Also! He and Raidah were seen in the elevator talking about jealousy, where he basically talked to her about his friendship with Joyce. I’m wondering how much this will change, since he’s mentioned to have had dealt with jealous girlfriends before. Couple this with how friendly he is with Joyce, who I think he honestly sees as a friend and (perhaps?) nothing more since he likes her as a person, this might change.
I agree though – I’d love to see his take on it. We only get glimpses of him because of the sheer number of characters but looking through his tag I kept being surprised how often he was in the background or with Joyce (re: Amber arriving back after the attack – he was being supportive as best he could, since he didn’t know Amber but clearly understood Joyce’s feelings on what was going on. He wanted to make sure Amber was okay, even if it was just because of Joyce). I think he has a good heart and wants to do well.
Tbqh I don’t think he’s done anything wrong this entire comic
I would agree with this. So far, he’s been kind, thoughtful and his only real fallacy might be sheer obliviousness.
I’m sure there’ll be something eventually because people aren’t perfect but that’s human beings for you. I really like him as a character and want to see more of his potential growth.
We’ve seen Raidah and Jacob talk about their relationship. She’s told him she doesn’t do jealousy and doesn’t care about other girls around him, because in the end it’s about his choices on who to be with.
That, uh. Appears to have approximately 0% truth to it, based on the last two strips.
I think there’s some non-zero percentage to do with it, in that Raidah thinks Jacob is making decisions the same way she does. To her, it may well be about his choice of who to be with, because she is objectively better than any other girl for his purposes and therefore he is going to choose her every time. She’s not taking a lot of things into account, most notably that Jacob isn’t even remotely as cold-blooded as she seems to be.
You are not wrong in that there’s a lot of earnest truth about herself that she’s telling there.
But note the ‘we’re safe’ line.
She definitely wants Jacob with -her-, and the fact that she recognizes he can make free choices of his own will only makes this more gross, because it means she sees his agency and chooses to disregard it.
She sees other girls as a threat, because the main reason she wants Jacob is not, in fact, that he wants to be with her, as she would have him believe in the elevator. Him wanting to be with her is not even a prerequisite.
I’m probably not wording this correctly, but my point is: Raidah told Jacob she didn’t mind other girls around him, as their relationship was about their relationship and not other people. As seeing here, she lied.
I’m sure they did talk and I’m pretty sure Jacob was straightforward and honest about what he wanted and I have a strong suspicion that Raidah listened closely and played the whole thing to her advantage. I’m also pretty confident that she wasn’t open and honest in return.
I think Jacob probably doesn’t see the plotting, because in his head it probably makes complete sense as to why Joyce would want to come to his church, because they had a lengthy and interesting conversation about religion and Joyce seemed receptive to new ideas, so Jacob probably thought she might like to see his church, and that she chose to go there on her own volition with no ulterior motive. So far i think he’s been oblivious to Sarah’s attraction to him, so he’d have no reason to suspect that Sarah told Joyce to break him and Raidah up. Also, Jacob’s been shown to see the best in everyone, so the idea that Joyce and Sarah, two people he is friends with, would want to destroy his relationship would be completely alien to him.
That being said, I do hope he eventually finds out on his own and we get to see him deal with finding out, because it’d be great to see him call out all the bullshit that Joyce and Sarah have done, and I hope that he calls Raidah out as he’s probably the only one in the “main cast” whose opinions she won’t dismiss, and which might make her re evaluate her attitude to Joyce and maybe Sarah
Omg Sarah, please stop that bullshit. If we didn’t know you so well, this would be mega creepy.
Huh, misread that as “Optimus Gloat.” I had a very strange facial expression forming in my head.
And I misread THIS as “Optimus Goat.” Which may be even stranger…
Freedom is the right of all sentient barnyard animals!
I think that leads to Animal Farm…
the best laid plans of mice and sarah
…War, has begun.
Okay, Raidah’s line about Jakob “needing her” totally invalidates their relationship for me. To her, having a partner apparently is all about putting up airs. And from what we have seen so far, there doesn’t seem to be much warmth between them.
And that makes me think that Jakob will eventually break up with her, because he doesn’t seem to be as shallow as she is.
Also, I don’t get what she gets out of it. Is she a law major? In that case, she can’t be looking for a provider. Does she “need” a presentable partner as well? Is she perhaps just projecting her own need on Jakob??
Also, didn’t she call Sarah “human sandpaper”? Helloooooo kettle.
Ha!
See: Jacob’s family. Raidah is connections fishing.
Yep, she’s gross.
This is the strip in which Sarah learns that being a scheming supervillain requires more luck than she realised!
Raidah, this is just a guess but something tells me that Jacob wants more out of a girlfriend than a drill sergeant. I’m not saying that Joyce is better than you because it’s more complex than that. However, I think that you should be aware that she presses buttons that he rather wants pressed but that you are evidently unaware even exist.
Does Jacob not also think angels are real?
Maybe he does and maybe he doesn’t. What’s important here is that Raidah doesn’t and the contempt she feels for those with such beliefs says negative things about her personality.
Well. Certainly about her relationship with a devout Christian
Well, Jacob is not a bible literalist of the same brand… but that’s not really the point.
To Raidah, it’s not about compatibility. It’s about one person being objectively better than the other. Raidah is obviously a better catch than Joyce, and that has nothing to do with Jacob as a person at all. Jacob as a person does not enter into the equation at all.
Yeah, that’s why I think Raidah is gross.
It was shitty of those two to keep press Raidah like this.
What Raidah said about Jacob and what he ‘needs’ is also shitty. However, I’m not sure how much of it was meanspirited exaggeration to shut those two down, and how much of it is a driving force behind why she’s in this relationship.
Either way, it’s not a good sign. But some takes of it are more workable than others.
“Those two” are Raidah’s closest friends and as far as we can tell she’s the dominant one in the group. Which says something about her.
Tbh I don’t think anyone’s commented on how pretty Sarah is in this strip yet. So I’m going to comment on how pretty Sarah is. Sarah is very pretty. The end.
Except, what if Jacob wants a girlfriend instead of an overseer or an overbearing mother?
Pictured: Raidah doesn’t do jealosy. It’s not super effective. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/02-everything-youve-ever-wanted/storied/
Oh, but she’s not -jealous-. She’s not insecure. She just objectively, maturely worries that someone might take away her property. How successful a thief can Joyce make? is the worry in her mind.
Obviously, she can’t tell -Jacob- that. Can’t tip your hand to your mark.
I REALLY wish I had some objections to your take on the situation (good write-up yesterday), but sadly I think you are spot on.
Investment might be another term for how she regards Jacob.
I hate that Sarah is doing this, though. I really do.
Like, this is Sarah living up to Raidah’s expectations. It’s so hard to watch.
Yeah. Sarah is kind of lowering herself to her level. It’s sad.
I can’t help but wonder, if that’s what she perceives to be the reason why Jacob with her then why is she with him ? Is it also about social status ?
Eeeeyup. Between ‘we’re safe’, ‘his family’ and the obvious disconnect between what she tells Jacob about their relationship and how she talks about it with her flunkies, there doesn’t seem to be -anything- more to it.
Its never too late to talk to your doctor about ominous gloat face.
I guess we have to have clear villains so Sarah is seen as somewhat justified in sending Joyce to wreck a relationship of someone she doesn’t like.
Raidah isn’t a villain she’s just petty
Thank all the gods she walked off another way, Sarah. Don’t make a bad situation worse.
Also, Raidah is still gross and repulsive on a very instinctual to me level. That attitude. Ewwww.
“Holy smugness, Batman! It’s Gloat Face!”
“Yes, old chum! And she seems to be up to her old tricks again!”
Everyone in today’s strip is being terrible.
The chairs have done nothing wrong.
The “angels” bit from Raidah I’m figuring is shorthand for the literal bible interpretations Joyce has had pushed into the brain, like the age of the earth (Dina’s “I can save this one!”.about Becky for comparison), and the end of days* in Revelations.
* http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/02-everything-youve-ever-wanted/thoughtful-2/
It is.
But it’s the kind of shorthand that fails to take into account the fact that -this specific fact- might nooot be a good example because it’s something Jacob might just also believe.
Raidah… does not appear to have given Jacob’s faith much thought.
Might, but probably doesn’t. At least not in the literal sense that she assumes Joyce does.
Have we actually seen anything about angels from Joyce or her church? Are angels a big thing in that sector of Christianity?
Back in the ’90s, I read somewhere that, in the American population as a whole, more people believe in angels (or guardian spirits, if you prefer) than believe in a distinct supreme deity.
Without taking stance on all of their behavior, Sarah in panel 5 is heartwarming. I like her.
Am i the only one that imagined Sarah appearing like The Great Gazoo?
*pets Sarah* It was a *very* nice Gloat face.
So, when it comes to comparing Sarah and Raidah.
Initially, I was willing to believe it was just both of them bringing out the worst in each other. Sarah definitely doesn’t act towards other people the way she acts towards Raidah. Their worst is still really different (Sarah’s worst includes apologizing for punching and Raidah’s worst includes a year-long harrassment campaign), but I was willing to give Raidah the benefit of doubt and assume her attitude towards Sarah is the exception to the general rule.
This reading was supported by the evident maturity of her talk to Jacob. Sure, she was also shitty to Joyce and Dina in the mall, but that was in Sarah’s immediate proximity which might have… impaired her normal reasoning.
These latest strips are definitely, absolutely, completely disproving this hypothesis. Sarah is nowhere near. Her relationship with Jacob is still built on lies, self-aggrandizing, hypocrisy and complete lack of concern for him as a person. Nor does she see Joyce as a person. It’s all about achievements and being ‘objectively better’ to her. This is gross, and she is gross. How mature she manages to act when she’s deliberately trying only underscores that this comes not from ignorance, but from deliberate choice to be this way.
Sarah is abrasive and wary of other people, but she definitely sees them as people. Sometimes as shitty people, people she doesn’t want to interact with, people she wants to hurt… but still people. When Jacob gave his speech about not wanting to be seen as a sex object, Sarah switched her ambitions about him from dating him personally (because she took into account his actual explicitly expressed preferences and estimated them as incompatible with her own) to hooking him up with Joyce, who according to those same explicitly expressed preferences is the perfect match. Sure, she also still wants to break him up with Raidah against those same preferences, but it’s not because she neglected to take into account that he’s a human person at all.
Wait what? The very foundation of Islam is that the angel Gabriel appeared to Muhammad and told him to begin reciting the word of God. Raidah makes no sense.
To a lot of people, their religion is part of their cultural identity but they do not internalise the beliefs as being ‘true’. Clearly, Raidah defines herself as a ‘Muslim’ as part of who she is but she does not feel any need to actually practice its strictures or accept its creeds.
I don’t think that’s clear at all.
Any more than it’s true of the Christian members of the cast who aren’t Joyce or Mary. What you’re describing is certainly a thing, but it’s far from clear it applies to Raidah. If nothing else, she does go to services regularly.
Not every version of every religion is the same.
I don’t know exactly how much control you have over this, but I think one or more of the advertisers on this site have malware associated with them, because they appeared as a popover that refused to let me return to the normal comic, and are very reminiscent of similarly malicious advertisements on very sketchy websites. I have heard of this kind of thing affecting another webcomic writer, but I don’t know whether or not they were able to remove the malicious ads. That comic was Go Get a Roomie, if you want to get in contact with the author there for tips or support.
Since I installed Firefox clear, there is an option to use its ad-restrictions in Safari and I never had any trouble since (though the endless places to visit ad gets boring).
I’ve have had trouble with aggressive ads on some hiveworks sites this summer, but though the artists responded, it seemed to be difficult to track down the actual offending ad. Thus Firefox clear.
“Ominous Gloat Face” sounds like a great band name…
It’s not, which means you now have to go create that band.
It’s… the law… or something….
(hey sometimes I really hate being such a loner and uninterested in people around me, but I am really glad it’s saved me from ever being in a situation remotely like this one)
Okay, guys, hear me out here.
WHAT IF Sarah actually tricked Joyce into thinking that she was helping Sarah out to remove Jacob from Raidah, when actually Sarah was trying to set Joyce and Jacob up as a couple?
Because that would both be a neat plot twist, and not actually that out of character for Sarah…
We’ve been saying this for a while. It was pretty obvious that this was Sarah’s objectives when she helped Billie dress her up in her most seductive dress.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/alternative/
…okay, so Sarah did not actually literally spell out what she meant.
But, uh, yeah. It’s pretty explicit that her objective has changed.
becauseunlikeraidahsherespectsjacobsfeelingsandnoticeshispreferencesandwouldnotdisrespecthimbytryingtousehimasanobjectforherownpleasurewhenhejustwantsafriend
So this is our prominent Muslim character. Backstabbing, classist, derogatory, manipulative, insincere and so easily detestable. And as it turns out, isn’t even sincere in her belief, even if she’s perfectly willing to debate religion with Jacob. Almost cartoonishly villainous.
So the narrative I’d hoped for, something keeping in line with a more genuine universe with realistic consequences, of a group of people-two of whom are white women-treating a good and kind and attractive and genuine black man tired and anxious about people close to him treating him as an object of jealousy and temptation as exactly that to get back at his relationship with an admittedly flawed and understandably disliked Muslim girl, is going to be rewarded because that Muslim girl is also dehumanizing him and apparently has no good qualities and is just manipulating him for appearances or prestige or something. Turns out it’s good to break up their relationship cuz it was bad this whole time, pack it in boys.
This type of person exists. I’ve met them. They’re awful and real. But for fucks sake man Raidah is the only Muslim character of any prominence in the plot. Asma any other side character are just side characters, barely any interactions if any, like their existance checks off a box and that makes this okay. I wanted to see the kind of complexity given to Joe or Sarah or, even Malaya at this juncture. But no it’s just more and more and more reasons to hate her. And I legit do and I’m sad on a thousand levels.
I don’t think I can continue reading this man. I’m too upset looking at all of this. Hope you do well Willis.
I disagree with you, but I respect your decision. Good luck and see you later.
Nash, one of Billie’s new neighbors, seems like a nice and fun person. Pretty sure she’s a Muslim. We haven’t seen much of her yet, but I think she’ll play a bigger role in the future.
I think you’re making a lot of assumptions with the “reward” thing, there’s no reason to believe this will end well for Joyce or Sarah, in fact this might end up in tears for everyone. Just because Sarah is gloating this doesn’t mean it’s a done deal.
Yep. Here’s hope you decide to come back in a couple of years and find that by then Nash and Asma have become prominent characters, and we can all breathe out a collective sigh of relief.
Willis does have a record of getting better with time. Here’s hope.
It’s real weird to talk with your friends about your boyfriend like you’re some kind of ominous cabal.
It’s a very Highschool!Billie thing to do.
Yeah, exactly. This seems very much like the “mean popular girls” thing.
As much as I hate to say it, she’s not exactly wrong? Jacob basically admitted that’s he’s with Raidah cause she checks his boxes
Those aren’t the same boxes she references here, though. Jacob believes she views him as an equal, enjoys spending time with him as a person and won’t be hostile to girls he strikes up friendships with.
These beliefs are false.
A Muslim who is dating a Christian mocking another Christian for her belief in angels? I know Raidah is mean but that makes no sense.
It’s not all that weird really. I’ve known people who “believed in Angels” in senses that would weird out many Christians, even if those Christians, if pressed, would admit they believed in angels in sort of abstract “there are angels in heaven and they’re kind of metaphors for messages from God kind of way”.
Much like the difference between those who believe in the Devil and those who think most evils in the world are the result of direct active demonic possession or action.
yo, Raidah! what’s your beef with Education majors?? Teachers are the backbone of society. get woke!
Next thing you’ll be saying society relies on minimum wage workers and not multimillionaires to exist! That’s crazy talk, it is!
Egad! Who let the Red in here? Quickly, call McCarthy!!
…
In all seriousness though, screw the “Red Scares” of the fifties and eighties.
That long weekend when a lovesick Dina hung around with a reluctant Sarah, learning the arts of sarcasm, humor and sexting, apparently Sarah learnt a thing or two from Dina too.
She is now a cranky ninja. She appear from behind your door. She might be appear from behind any door.
Hopefully she’ll appear from behind the right door.
Ok. So I have to say that I don’t get all these comments about how Raidah doesn’t see people as people. There’s no evidence for it.
Raidah is definitely the sort of person who forms strong emotional attachments. That’s the source of her whole beef with Sarah. In Raidah’s mind, Sarah was the bongo who got Dana sent home over nothing by grossly overecagerating her emotional issues. Sarah is full of reasonless spite and Raidah felt betrayed.
I’m not saying Raidah doesn’t have MASSIVE character flaws. Her choice in friends, the fact is she actively harasses Sarah, and they way she looks down on others based on assumptions are speak for themselves.
BUT, I don’t see Raidah as the psychopathic social climber other commenters are portraying her as.
If anything, her comments here DO make a case for her own self-perceived superiority, but I think she is at worst only making assumptions on what Jacob values in a partner. Jacob is vocal about how he wants someone supportive and trusting and Raidah is offering that. To Raidah, Jacob wouldn’t hook-up with Joyce because she’s a stupid home schooled fundie AND even if he was into that, how would he explain it to his family/reconcile it with his goals in life?
Kay, so ‘all these comments’ are probably mostly mine haha oops. I have been going around leaving them everywhere like bird droppings, if only because with each one I actually understood my own thoughts on the situation better :>
So, here’s my argument for the whole ‘Raidah thinks of people as props’ thing.
Point of evidence 1: The Whole Dana Situation. And no, I’m not talking about Raidah failing to notice Dana was not okay, that’s normal human obliviousness. I’m talking about her reaction to Sarah. How dare this girl put her right to get good grades above her roommate’s right to smoke weed at all hours?! She completely failed to even try to understand Sarah’s situation.
Sure, could be oblivousness. But still: failure of empathy, strike one.
Point 2: year-fucking-long harrassment campaign against Sarah. We don’t just have to take Sarah’s word for it, we have seen it in action: Raidah actively goes out of her way to approach people Sarah’s making friends with and loudly and publicly badmouth her in front of them. This is not just a failure of empathy for Sarah. This is, first and foremost, a failure of empathy for people Sarah is hanging out with. They are being put on the spot in a horribly awkward way. Raidah -punishes- them for daring to be around Sarah, and that’s probably why her goal of isolating Sarah has succeeded so perfectly (Sarah literally has no friends in her own year). Not because nobody was interested in befriending Sarah, but because doing so carried consequences enforced by Raidah.
Do you think she considered those other people to be people when crafting her -magnificent plan-?
Failure of empathy, strike two.
Point 3: Dina. Sure, Raidah shut up the obviously-explicitly-ableist slur from her friend, meaning she wasn’t just completely oblivious to the whole problem. She still was incredibly condescending and insulting to Dina, apparently failing to see anything wrong with this behavior.
Failure of empathy, strike three.
Point 4: allowing her friends to talk about Jacob in this way behind her back and not shutting down the conversation. It’s not like she’s awkward/insecure/needs support: she’s had this conversation with Jacob before, and hit all the right notes, to the point of winning respect of a lot of readership (including me). She -knows- that thinking of things in terms of ‘sniffin’ around your dude’ is disrespectful to the dude’s agency, yet goes ahead with it anyway.
Failure of respect for Jacob personally: strike one.
Point 5: she has said herself that she considers freshment to be children. And when it is pointed out to her that that makes Jacob a child too, her reaction is not ‘no, he’s not, that’s why I’m dating him’. Her reaction (unsaid) is ‘oh shit, you’re right’. She’s dating a guy she’s considering to be a child who’ll be interested in other children.
I don’t even… I can’t even elaborate on this. She’s dating someone she considers to be a child.
Point 6: Jacob and Joyce objectively have a chemistry. They share an interest in theology. Jacob admires Joyce for having punched a guy. They are compatible on the ‘companionship without sex hanging over your heads’ level. They have fun talking to each other, and Raidah definitely had a chance to notice that.
Yet, her summation of Joyce is ‘a homeschooled nobody’.
How do you even arrive to this conclusion? How much of Joyce’s personality and history do you need to carve out to leave that? What do you even take into account if you consider JOYCE BROWN, the super high profile student and a super bright personality with plenty of friends on campus, to be nobody?
(The answer is money and influence. Specifically, the family’s influence – because if you count Joyce’s personal contacts, they include Walky and Carla and Billie, all pretty fucking rich children. But noticing that would require actually paying attention to Joyce as a person, and not just her parents’ puppet let loose to play…)
Point 7. “I know what Jacob wants, and it’s to live up to the standards of his family, to make them proud”
Uh, is it? Jacob isn’t exactly the most closed off guy. He’s talked about what he wants: companionship without sex hanging over his head… that sounds suspiciously unlike ‘make my daddy proud’. It’s almost like it lies on an entirely different plane. It’s almost like Jacob has life outside of his career and wants lots of things from it. Raidah is literally the ONLY person who’s ever brought up Jacob’s family. Not even once has Jacob himself mentioned them.
Just… augh. Failures of empathy are one thing, I myself consistently fail to understand what other people think and feel. That’s why I rely on simple social rules, like don’t lie, don’t bully people, don’t talk about them derisively behind their backs. Like, for people who don’t really get how to not hurt others, our society has developed long and extensive sets of guidelines. They don’t cover anything and are often woefully insufficient, but they damn fucking well cover a lot of shit Raidah has been saying.
Her failures of empathy are actually failures of respect. She doesn’t respect Sarah, she doesn’t respect Dina, she doesn’t respect Joyce, she doesn’t respect Jacob… because what she’s doing here is explicitly refusing to see the situation from his point of view. Her argument is not ‘Jacob is a nice person who would not cheat on me, I trust him’ which is actually on the same plane of reality as Jacob’s actual motivations and what she’s talked to him about. Her argument is ‘Joyce has nothing to offer’. That’s… kind of… very obviously… not true? if you know the first thing about Jacob? if you are willing to trust the evidence in front of your own eyes of Jacob enjoying her company?
But nope, why consider Jacob’s enjoyment of someone’s company when you can just rely on status signifiers to sort people into a definite hierarchy that places you on top instead?
Alright. Listed out like that you have a pretty solid argument there. I think I agree most with your reclarification to it being about a lack of respect.
Raidah is too socially competent to be a psychopath. I even ran her through an online quiz just now. (Of course that’s based on subjective interpretation of her character. Feel free to do it yourself).
Her biggest problem is her superiority complex. Sarah betrayed Raidah and rejected her attempts at friendship by making up stories about Dana’s terrible depression. Everyone younger than Raidah is a “child”. Joyce is AT BEST a naive innocent bigot worthy of pity. People who hang out with Sarah are obviously confused and need to be steered in the right direction. Jacob won’t betray her cause he’s her boyfriend and she’s the best possible girlfriend for him and she wouldn’t have chosen a boyfriend who couldn’t figure that out.
Eh, I don’t really like diagnosing people with ‘complexes’ like that. Like, sure, you can say that absolutely everything about someone’s personality is one complex or another, something thrust upon them by circumstances that they had no choice in. But people still have choices, and IMHO Raidah’s superior attitude towards others is the product of a choice, not of the world around her bending itself to present her with this as the only parseable view of reality.
But yeah, basically what you said. She considers herself to be superior. And there’s a good society-enforced foundation for it: classism is hell of a thing. It takes unlearning, like all other -isms. I guess that’s why I have an issue with calling it a ‘complex’: that makes it sound like it’s a problem confined to the specific person, but no, it’s a problem with the system they’re embedded in. It’s a whole complicated thing.
(Okay, so maybe there’s some hard to parse contradiction between the first and second paragraphs, but I hope you get the point, uh, somehow, by being smart. Which you are)
I hate to say this, but I’m kind of getting Raidah, here today.
On the one hand, she’s the first one among anyone in this storyline to express any interest in what Jacob wants. While everyone else seems to be clapping for Joyce, or Sarah, or whatever Becky was trying to do before, nobody else seems to have asked Jacob anything, let alone tried to set about helping him achieve what he wants to achieve.
Sarah’s in it solely for petty revenge (now that she realized she’s not Jacob’s type herself), Joyce was too clouded by a combination of her (if I’m being nice) OCD issues and heh-heh-it’s-a-boy to even ask if he had family or whatever (which is odd- even after everything, she’s still fairly family-oriented), Becky’s in it for Joyce and letting the world Know She’s Becky (like usual), etc.
Sure, Raidah’s way of going about it is pushy, but maybe pushy’s her medium for expressing caring about something.
As for “For THAT, he needs ME”… if you’ve never experienced only valuing yourself for what you can do, not for who you are, I don’t think it can be adequately explained. Besides, this would be a very good way to cover any feeling of vulnerability. (“I can’t be jealous. I’m too valuable, here. Right?”, coupled with her expected level-of-cool “If I’m cheated on, fuck you and goodbye, moving on.”.
It’s not that much different from when Dorothy was all-career, no-anything-else- maybe a bit better managed than her, really- it’s just that she’s on the wrong side of the narrative and we’re expected to hate her.
Sarah, today, is being petty and mean. Since it’s against Raidah, we’re expected to find it as a not-very-bad thing, but that’s more that the pettiness and meanness is being aimed at someone we aren’t liking than that it doesn’t exist.
OCD people in the comment section have noted that Joyce’s issues are entirely unlikely issues they face. Autistic people in the comment section have noted that Joyce’s issues are hauntingly familiar and line up with some diagnosis criteria.
Just as a side point.
As for Joyce not asking about family… uh… okay, so I myself am autistic and might not be getting something there, but how do you even ask something like that??? ‘Oh by the way, do you have parents?’ Like, this is a horrible minefield because you never know what kind of issues you might be stepping into (divorced parents, absentee parents, poor parents, parents in jail, abusive parents), AND it adds nothing to the conversation. A person’s family is something you find out about them once you’re close friends, not in a casual acquaintance chat. It’s just… not… done??? To my intuition, Raidah is actually being kind of assholy here just talking about Jacob’s family relationships to people-who-are-not-his-close-friends???
Like, I might be not getting something here? I’m Ukrainian, maybe it’s a thing in America? But we still don’t know anything about Sarah’s parents just because it’s never come up? Because family is just not one of those topics you casually chat about unless you ARE family???
Also, pay attention to all the things Raidah says about Joyce. Do you really think this can all just be explained away with jealousy? That it’s not something about the way Raidah views people in general, and just a personal moving-in-on-my-dude thing?
Also, note the ‘she’s a child’ – ‘he’s a child too’ – ‘oh, right’ exchange. Why the fuck is Raidah dating someone she considers a child???
Sarah is petty and mean against Raidah, Raidah is petty and mean against Sarah. Even if we let those things cancel each other out (even though they really aren’t remotely on the same level of petty cruelty), that still leaves Raidah’s attitude towards Jacob, Joyce and Dina to stand on its own…
Joyce had no issues talking with Joe about his parents divorce on their date and as for the child comment its probably more to do with Joyces fundie, home-schooled, naive upbringing then her actual age
Though Jacob and Joyce are similar in age they’re years apart in maturity
The quote was specifically “she’s a freshman, a child” implying she thinks of freshmen (read: anyone younger than her) as children
“How do you even ask something like that?”
‘So, are you close with your family?’ “Yes- my parents live in [wherever], and I’ve got a brother.” And so on. It really, truly is not that hard to do. I know the general family size/shape of most of my coworkers, most because they’ve told me without prompting, and I don’t even take that much interest in some of them.
“And it adds nothing to the conversation.”
Right. Because nobody gives a shit about their families, it’s all just biological chutes we dropped out of with no influence on who we are as people.
Ehhhh
If youre not close with someone it’s safest to stay away from the topic of family. Any response apart from the one you gave Could lead to awkwardness and discomfort
Very good points
“On the one hand, she’s the first one among anyone in this storyline to express any interest in what Jacob wants. While everyone else seems to be clapping for Joyce, or Sarah, or whatever Becky was trying to do before, nobody else seems to have asked Jacob anything, let alone tried to set about helping him achieve what he wants to achieve. ”
We haven’t seen Raidah do that either. We’ve seen her declare that she knows what Jacob wants. Not the same thing.
Look at the strip from yesterday. That she reminded him of a goal of his that he had confided in her is a decent indicator of that.
Or, she’s just using it to get him to do what she wants.
Point is, she’s aware of what his goals are. If they weren’t his goals (or a goal she assigned to him somehow), she couldn’t be “getting him to do what she wants” with it, because (not being anything he cared about) he’d shrug it off.
Knowing his goals =/= knowing what he wants.
Sarah actually listened to what Jacob wanted. She heard him say he wanted a meaningful relationship, not the casual fun she was looking for and she backed off. She did go back after him when she found out he was with Raidah, but after paying enough attention to him to see his interest in Joyce, she decided to put her in his path instead.
She might not be accepting his choice of Raidah, which is still a problem, but she seems more aware of his interests and feelings than anyone else. Possibly including him.
Stretch. When Billie approved of the trick of throwing Joyce in his path, Sarah basically said she’d miss having the external conscience Billie’s cautionary example gives.
You don’t get credit for “If I can’t break you up, I’ll send someone who can.”
“Possibly including him.”
Because, apparently, agency is for girls.
The point is still that Sarah calmed her own thirst because Jacob expressed he was uncomfortable with that kind of thing. It’s still a thing that happened.
That’s how I understood it. The whole reason she switched her plan to getting him to fall for Joyce was because she recognized that she and Jacob weren’t looking for the same thing in a relationship, but he and Joyce are
Still kinda crappy to do that out of spite, but less crappy than trying to break up his potentially long-term relationship just to have sex with him a couple times.
“Besides, this would be a very good way to cover any feeling of vulnerability. ”
That’s an interesting point. How much of Raidah’s shittiness is from feeling superior and how much is from fear of feeling *inferior*? I guess we won’t find out unless she gets upset enough for the fear to show.
Jebus she’s rude.
I wonder if it’s okay to leave questions here that about the characters but not relevant to today’s strip.
I have a question about Joyce’s beliefs and her (former?) church congregation: was anti-semitism rampant?
I’ve been reading some awful Jack Chick comics and there’s this theme that the Jewish people are responsible for the death of Jesus and that they personally sold him out to the Romans out of spite or malice or something. Since Joyce reads and distributes chick tracts, does she believe this too?
From the comic we’ve seen that she’s okay with Jewish people (Ethan and Joe) because she thinks they have the foundation to become Christian, and we also know she’s not a hateful person. But she could have still been taught awful things in her church, so I’m wondering about that
There was actually a strip where Joyce’s parents said Hitler was half-Jewish so, probably.
I would guess Joyce had a homeschooling upbringing utilizing something like ACE (Accelerated Christian Education) that resulted in a lot of doublethink and teaching the students to ignore cognitive dissonance. So Jews can be evil when necessary but suddenly become good when someone points out that Jesus was himself originally Jewish.
ACE/PACE is so incredibly weird and creepy it actually crosses the threshold into being funny. Here’s some actual screenshots from PACE textbooks:
On obedience:
Link 1
Link 2
On evolution.
Mendel and Darwin next to Hitler and Stalin.
On gender roles.
On politics. PACE is big on equivocation.
On homosexuals.
“Obey your husband, always!” works until he does something that deviates from the “correct path.” Like join the wrong church, hold the wrong ideas on politics etc. Let alone if he turns out to be abusive, won’t deal with problem behaviours he engages in etc.
eeeeewwww. weird and creepy indeed. :/ the first few links were bad enough to be funny, but then it just gets creepy and disturbing – actual kids are being taught this shit? 🙁
That bit about being “okay with Jewish people because she thinks they have the foundation to become Christian” is itself pretty prejudiced.
It’s not Nazi level, but expecting them to convert to be properly valued isn’t very cool.
Where would Christians be if Jesus didn’t die on the cross? A long forgotten sect of Judaism. The story only works because of its final.
Lots of doomsday prophets died via crucifixion. What made Yeshua ben Joseph longlived is the writings of Paul. If Christianity hadnt spread to the gentiles, it would have died in Jerusalem in 70AD.
I know I can’t compare, but this Raidah-relationship viewpoint at the moment feels slightly more creepy than the whole religious-fanatics thing that has been a thread. Maybe because I have an even harder time to believe people at that age might in reality think like that…
I… actually think I wouldn’t mind if Sarah and Raidah became the main characters and their feud became the main focus of the plot.
Tomorrow: Dina and Becky gain super powers and fly around the world fighting evil with their army of resurrected dinosaurs.
Ugh, a dig at education majors. That’s original. *eyroll at Raidah*
nice to know us education majors are losers, raidah.
also, Jacob isn’t just an accessory, don’t treat him like one.
Islam has angels -and- jinn.
OMG! Sarah can teleport! She’s a witch! Or an abductee, is head alien going to turn up next? Pushed into this universe by the soggies?
Does Raidah’s ridicule of Joyce for believing in angels – a belief shared in Islam – imply that her supposed religious piety is false?
For what it’s worth, it’s a great face