I bet I could sleep while eating cookies. I once sleepwalked to my bathroom and brushed my teeth without waking up, and the only reason I know it happened is the next morning I had toothpaste all over me shirt.
Can’t rule out that any cookie incidents may have occurred. Maybe that’s why sleeping me felt obligated to brush his teeth again.
Needing the restroom always wakes me up. As a kid though I once woke up sleeping in the bathtub. Had my pillow and everything. I think it was too hot in my room, and I wanted to sleep someplace cool.
My brother once sleep walked out into the kitchen at my granma’s house, opened the door to the woodburning stove, peed in the firebox and sleepwalked back to bed. We know this because granma and my mum were sitting in the kitchen at the time.
when I was little I would sleep plank all the time. Go to sleep normally and wake up with either my feet or torso dangling off the bed and just groan “oh damnit I did it again!”
I once (in my student days) fell asleep on my feet in the bathroom.
I woke up, still on my feet, with two weird kinesthetic memories. One was of stumbling around trying not to fall down. The other was of trying to put something in my mouth that was too big to fit.
Then I noticed that I was holding my hairbrush – and there was toothpaste on it.
Oh, I’m fairly certain that she “gave it back” by spending it on Sal’s tuition.
Why?
Because this exact thing (well, minus the money being for surgery and when I was slightly older) happened to me.
My first job, I earned a bit over $1200 dollars. I was responsible and saved it…
And then one of my parents informed me that I was to hand it over to help pay for my future college expenses. I was “paid back” when my parents wrote a check to the college so I could live in a dorm a year later.
I have kids of my own now, and I can say with utmost certainty that I will never do anything like this to them. Whatever ‘lesson’ about hard work it was supposed to teach utterly failed because it only made me feel powerless and resentful.
So yeah… fuck Linda Walkerton.
(added the last name because I do not wish to give offense to any other Linda’s present)
The fact that Sal’s thirteen here and Linda’s using it with the ultimatum suggests to me it didn’t go as far as college tuition, but the Catholic school? Probably justifying it as her making new friends. God I hate this fictional character.
That is bullshit. Parents can unfortunately be bullshit. When my mother died we learned one of the reasons that her sisters and our older hated hated me (in particular) and my brother so much. She would always talk about us borrowing money, which happened from time to time. In my case, I had to learn how to budget for the fact that my now ex would spend money without documenting it in our checking account and so I never knew how much money I had and was often overdrawn. Later, when I was able to get things under control I was paying her back. That was the part she kept leaving out. After the funeral, they found envelopes with our names on them and running totals. Both envelopes were in the black because we also gave her money to hang onto for us, or rent whenever either of us lived there as adults. She never told them that part, only the complaints.
Have the same problem with my parental finances….As I’m 38, I can’t help but feel these methods have more to do with indulging the parents’ control issues than anything that really benefits their kids, despite all good intentions…..
I’ve decided that the parent I hate most, between Ross, Blaine, and Linda, is whichever one is on-panel at any given time.
Like, I know that this TECHNICALLY isn’t as bad as kidnapping or assault with a deadly weapon, but damned if it doesn’t piss me off just as much at the moment.
Let’s see how much that one action on Linda’s part affected people: Sal robbed a store, terrifying Ethan and causing irreparable trauma to Amber. While Amazi-Girl has done some good things (says the person with a completely coincidental AG avatar), Amber/AG also caused emotional harm to Danny and is likely going to cause similar troubles for Walky. ALSO, Marcie doesn’t get her voice back.
I’m in no way disagreeing with you on any point; I’d just like to add some nuance.
Sal definitely blames Linda at least in part for Marcie never getting her voice back, and from her perspective, she’s right to do so because Linda stole money from her that she was going to put towards that purpose. Sal’s efforts were directly contradicted by Linda’s actions, and that’s important. Sal can blame Linda, but we can’t.
What I mean is: with or without Linda, the story clearly communicates that Sal wasn’t going to be successful in getting Marcie her voice back, and it’s unfair for us as an audience to hate a character for a thing that was going to happen regardless of that character’s actions. We can one hundred percent hate the character for the things they do (and this is a thing worth hating them for), but we can’t blame characters we don’t like for things which aren’t their fault. That’s unfair to each character involved and the story as a gestalt entity.
Linda is shitty, but it’s not because Marcie doesn’t get her voice back: Linda is shitty because she racistly hates one of her children, violated that child’s privacy, stole money from that child because she didn’t approve of what it was going to be spent on, etc.
I feel like you’re arguing we can’t hate a character for in-universe reasons because of out of universe reasons. By this logic, we can’t hate Blaine for his abuse at the robbery which lead to Amazi-Girl because we had to get Amazi-Girl for the story to work and that’s not Blaine’s fault. From an out of universe perspective, that’s true. In-universe though, it’s still absolutely Blaine’s fault.
Now it’s true we don’t know what the surgery’s odds were or that it would have been successful, but in universe, part of the reason Marcie’s not going to get said surgery is because of Linda and I don’t think it’s wrong to hate her for that, especially when she knows the stakes.
No I get what SebastainsTemple is saying here, it’s in universe not out. That in universe even if Sal had kept that money she was unlikely to ever raise enough for the whole surgery. We can’t say for sure but it seems unlikely given the rate at which she had raised $ up to that point. So while you may hate her for doing it it doesn’t mean it is her fault Marcie hasn’t gotten the surgery
Sure, out of universe. In universe, it is partially her fault, because she is taking money (whether saved or fundraised) that is specifically earmarked for Marcie.
Right but in universe it doesn’t matter whether or not linda took the money. In the AU where linda didn’t take away that money, Marcie still didn’t get her voice back
True, but even if they weren’t ever able to save up enough money for the surgery, that was still money raised for Marcie that she could have used for any other medical expenses, like therapy, doctor’s visit, or her ASL lessons- really anything. It’s not Linda’s fault that Marcie doesn’t get her voice back, but it is her fault that something intended to help Marcie was wrongfully taken away, because she decided it wasn’t worth it.
@ Airyu – That’s out of universe. In universe, Linda took money that was earmarked to help Marcie, which is part of the reason Marcie didn’t get surgery. So, in universe, yes, it is partially her fault.
@ Pam – Yeah, even if it didn’t go to surgery, US health care is EXPENSIVE. $700 can’t hurt, especially when adjusting to the disability of a child. In or out of universe, taking the money is despicable.
She took money from her child(not a small sum either) that they had specifically saved with the intention to use to help a friend, then said they’d give it back when the child was no longer associated with said friend.
So can we be upset at her with how the story turned out, you can make a argument no. Can you be upset with her for being a horrible human being, yes
Let us be clear. She stole money. Which other people have saved and donated – remember, online campaign – for charity.
That is actually a crime. And a morally reprehensible thing to do. $700 might not get Marcie’s voice back, but it was almost half of an ambulance ride that her family couldn’t afford.
This is not morally ambiguous. This is straight up evil.
Book suggestion: People of the Lie by Scott Beck.
Right at the beginning he tells a story about a boy who stole a car. In talking to him (Beck is a psychiatrist, back when they still talked to patients instead of just giving them pills) Beck found out that for Christmas the boys gave him a rifle for Christmas.
The same rifle that his older brother had committed suicide with.
The parents couldn’t understand why Beck thought that was a bad thing.
Linda seems to be the same type of parent.
1) Plenty of psychiatrists still talk to their patients
2) Psychiatrists have ALWAYS “handed out pills” – that’s their job. Therapists and psychologists do not and cannot hand out pills, because that is not what they are qualified for.
3) While it is true that many people are overmedicated, and many doctors don’t have a choice if they want to stay funded, it’s important to not let personal bias cloud one’s vision.
^This. I was diagnosed with ADHD at around age seven, almost 20 years ago, and I can assure you that without medication, I would not have had even remotely close to the success in life that I’ve managed since. I probably would have struggled to graduate high school. I also would have been *utterly miserable,* because it was hard enough as it was to make friends, and if I’d been bouncing off the walls even harder than I was, I probably wouldn’t have managed that at all. I still need them to drive, as well, so for all of your skepticism about medications used as psychiatric treatments, let me tell you that there are quite a few of us who would be far, far worse off without them.
I can’t speak to David T. Shaw’s original intent, but, I read it as, ‘psychiatrists used to be the go-to person for talk-therapy AND meds, but now, psychiatrists almost solely give meds, and we have Social Workers and other therapists for the talk-therapy part.”
I would never discount the importance of meds, but it’s true that psychiatrists used to be a one-stop-shop, but typically don’t get to do that anymore.
I think the fundamental goal of every BoJack Horseman season is to have darker, more disturbing content than the one before. Did not think season 5 wouls be able to accomplish that after season 4. I was wrong.
I would agree but from what we’ve seen/heard, Walky had good grades. He likely had a scholarship.
Sal, on the other hand, probably didn’t, ESPECIALLY since a lot of scholarships don’t allow you to go out of state if you simply got it for your test scores in High School and not for some other reason.
I’m sure that’s the intent (because my parents did the same to me, see resentful rant above), but that doesn’t make it any less
A) bullshit
B) a terrible idea
C) barely a drop in the bucket. Pay for tuition? Ha. Pay for part of the dorm fees for a single semester at best.
A) Bullshit Like it helps the kid any in that place. Either the parents were going to pay or they weren’t.
B) A terrible idea
All that will teach kids is they better not save money because mom will steal it anyways so better buy that candybar now before she decides to steal it.
C)
Honestly she’s not as shitty as she’s made to seem. The bar is very high on the bad parent rankings. Linda’s not even in the top 3 maybe not even the top 5.
Only if we’re counting Clint as a parent. This is financial abuse on top of the emotional stuff, plain and simple, made all the worse because she’s withholding money meant to pay for medical bills because she doesn’t approve of the patient. Plus a tremendous violation of privacy.
While I’m certain Carol can and will do something on this level eventually (threatening to pull Joyce out of school was bad enough, but she never had the chance to spring it on Joyce and try and extort her with it,) Linda is pulling this on a thirteen-year-old. This is a thing evil parents do to keep their kid financially dependent so they can’t escape the situation. This is a thing evil parents do to isolate their child so they can’t seek help or recognize their situation isn’t normal. This is a thing that evil parents do.
I think “evil” is a little extreme here. I’m no fan of Linda but her actions are coming from a place of love and concern as well as not so subtle racism. She’s still a mom who has provided a home and cared for Sal for most of her life. Not trying to start a fight but I mean……we’ve seen parents get in actual fist fights with their children and even attempt murder.
Yeah that’s probably the smart move for me too. This comic has successfully drawn another battle line in the sand. Please don’t go nuclear though. You provide some of the more thought provoking comments! 😀
I don’t think anyone is actively defending Linda here. I went back and read all of Kris’s comments to make sure, since you (BBCC) specifically called those out. My reading of Kris’s comments is simply that, as bad as Linda is, people like Blaine and Ross/Toedad are so much worse.
And yeah. As I said above, one of my parents did exactly this to me once, and I am still bitter about it 20+ years later. I have experienced this exact form of abuse – and I, as someone who has suffered this, am saying that Linda is not in the same ball park as Toedad or Blaine. Those two set the bar so insanely high that Linda can’t possibly rank that high unless she actually pulls a gun on Sal.
Like, a parent needs to commit multiple felonies against their child to rank up with those two. Linda has committed a misdemeanor (class A – I just looked it up).
Genuinely sorry for upsetting you. I’m not trying to piss people off. I enjoy reading the comments and debating with people while trying my best to be respectful. I’m just voicing my opinion but I don’t want to like trigger people or anything or trol just for lols.
Ross pulled a fucking gun on his daughter and her best friend “out of love,” get the fuck out with your bullshit. Linda never threatens Sal’s physical safety, but this is emotional abuse beyond almost anything seen so far, with only Blaine and Clint being on her level.
She stole $700 from her daughter to force her into being obedient by cutting ties with her closest friend because Linda is racist.
Linda is shit through and through and you’re showing your colors and just how much contempt we should have for you every time you defend any part of her actions.
@Leslie – Blaine and Ross are worse, and I’ve never said otherwise. However, when people say an abusive parent is ‘not that bad’ because others are worse (or, as others have argued, because her actions are done out of love or because they think she has a point), yes, that makes me very angry. And while I did specifically say Kris’ comments were making me angry, they are not the only one saying things like that. I think we’ve been reading those arguments differently and that’s fine, but yes, comments along those lines have made me very angry tonight.
@ Kris – It’s fine. My problem isn’t so much with you or your conduct as it is with what I understand your argument to be. Maybe my understanding is wrong, but at this time, that is how I felt.
@schpoonman- Like for real?! I was gonna and probably should ignore this but, you’re being unreasonable here. I don’t deserve backlash or contempt for having an unpopular opinion about a fictional character.
While your argument was one of several that made me angry, for what it’s worth, I do not have anything in particular against you as a person and I don’t hold you in contempt.
The problem is that your opinion, as far as I can tell, is that an abusive characters act of abuse towards their child isn’t abuse. That’s not just unpopular, that’s offensive.
My last roommate spent the entire year I lived with him mentally and emotionally abusing me with the “justification” that I had aspects of my life out of order and he was trying to help me grow up. I didn’t do the dishes enough in his book, and that was enough for him to treat me like shit at all times.
When you defend Linda, you defend him, and I stand by the statement that you can go fuck yourself.
People are acting as though there’s deeper meaning to be found from Linda’s abuse, or some way to justify it to redeem her, but it’s actually quite simple and rather binary.
You are either hurting people with your actions or you are not. Linda could have sat down with Sal and gave any fucks whatsoever about her only daughter. Even if the conversation still ended poorly, Sal would have been treated with dignity and respect and that makes all the difference.
Instead she pulls an actually evil (the fuck is she doing here, emulating Freeza?) move, stealing money from her daughter to hold her behavior hostage. Linds can act with good intentions until the heat death of the universe and it woll never justify all the pain and harm she inflicts.
Stop hurting people, and stop defending those who hurt people.
@lesliebean Abuse is not a competition though. Do not lessen the impact Linda’s abuse has had on her children because she hasn’t physically assaulted or threatened them. Saying Linda is not that bad because she hasn’t done anything like that diminishes the abuse that we have very clearly seen in display throughout the comic. You cannot compare abuse, and by doing so, you are comparing the victims of it. This logic has led many people to discount their experiences and deny they were ever abused because it “wasn’t that bad” or “Becky had it worse than me”.
No one here is saying that Linda’s actions are worst than what Ross is done, but they are acknowledging the impact that they’ve had, and considering where this ends for Sal, its pretty bad.
@LB4S I almost killed myself summer of 2017 because of the abuse that I went through, but my roommate didn’t personally pour me a glass of bleach, so it’s okay in your book, gotcha.
Stop treating this with levels. It’s fucking binary.
@schpoonman….again. Like at this point it’s beyond a simple argument about Linda’s character. If you read my original comment I didn’t say it wasn’t abuse or that I was defending her. Abuse can and often does come from a place of love. The point I wanted to make was that Linda isn’t evil. Which I stand by.
But now you’re just being seriously rude. Other commentors have stated their opinion and countered my argument without directly insulting me. It’s feels almost like you’re claiming I am an abuser or something by proxy of my argument. I hope that’s not true, but that is how it feels to me.
@LB4S I want to apologize about the “okay in your book” line. It’s obviously not and I was reacting and not thinking. I’ve got a longer rebuttal down below that will hopefully more politely state my point.
@Kris It’s very clear that Linda does not love Sal and is at this point using her as an outlet for her racism. I’ll stop being rude, but evil triumphs when good men do nothing, and if you’re not saying that Linda is abusing Sal in this moment, you’re doing nothing.
@LeslieBean4Shizzle I never said she was as bad as Ross. What I said is that what is depicted here is an act of abuse. Some people are acting as if what she did here is not abusive and being as bad as Ross is not relevant to whether or not this was an act of abuse.
Not trying to invalidate other voices in this conversation (they are important! I have read this entire thread and I am listening!), but I see exactly where Kris is coming from and am in much the same camp myself.
I see a LOT of anger at the parental figures in this comic in the comments section in general, and sometimes it wears me a bit thin. Are many of them being shitty parents? Of course. Are most parents shitty in some way? IDK for sure, but probably. Part of growing up and becoming your own person is realizing that your worldview doesn’t align with your parents’ 100%. Whether that’s because your parents resist you becoming your own person, or they actively endanger you and the people around you, it’s all a spectrum, IMO, and sometimes actions that are not really okay (confiscating $700 your child earned / saved for their friend because you dislike said friend for shitty reason) aren’t as “bad” in the long run as actions that are REALLY not okay (showing up to a college campus and waving a gun around at your child and her friends).
I know some folks that like to turn the comments section into “bongo about the Walkertons o’clock” are probably processing some really bad trauma, and I am not trying to invalidate that trauma, but I’m also trying to connect to a piece of fiction in my own way, while being open to learning.
Then again, I don’t actually believe in morally “good” and “bad” as concepts. I believe in treating people the way they want to be treated, and I recognize that that is going to be inconsistent with a singular worldview.
@ Kinoko – For someone not trying to invalidate trauma, you’re doing a pretty good job of it. If a character is being abusive, others are 100% justified in being angry with that character and going around going ‘Well, yeah, but it’s not as bad as X abusive action’ is both unhelpful and irrelevant and saying ‘well they’re not so bad’ or ‘they’re not as shitty as they’re made out to be’ is downright dismissive and a crappy thing to say. Linda is exactly as shitty as people say, as evidenced by the things she does in this story and whether or not she’s as bad as other abusive parents doesn’t matter. That’s got nothing to do with whether or not she’s overall a good person (or whether you can be a good person). It has to do with whether or not she does abusive things to her kids and she does.
“I love you, so I’m going to withhold the money for your unsuitable friend’s unnecessary surgery.” I suppose that she does love her daughter. BUT.
Water is necessary for life, but if it’s water mixed with poison? Run right the hell away. Even if it’s only a tiny amount of poison, so it’ll just make you sick and not kill you. And the person who wants you to drink that water? May love you, but they’re really, really, really bad at it and must repent and change their ways. But I bet Linda never does…
I liken it to Azalea Honey (Sometimes called Mad Honey) bc that’s how my mom’s abuse tastes to me (I use taste metaphors a lot): Super sweet on the surface, but threaded through it is the poison of the flower it comes from. You’ll survive a spoonful and probably a whole jar; but the more you have the less stable the world around you becomes as the psychedelic effects (of mental abuse and gaslighting) kick in, and in some cases, Azalea Honey has been known to kill the people who eat it.
I suppose it is the duty of parents to care for their children. But not abusing them, teaching them good things, loving them are what make good parents. Seeing Linda and Sal’s dynamic here reminds me of my childhood where only i knew of the abuse and no one else would believe me. I have no patience with shitty parents.
Manipulative bullshit should not be excused “because love”, if you really love any person, let alone your child, you shouldn’t feel the need to force them to do what you want.
Unfortunately, in western society, people tend to see love as an overriding redeeming factor, to the point that all an abuser has to say is “I’m doing this because I love them.” and they’ll IMMEDIATELY have a sometimes substantial portion of the population agreeing with them!
“I’m no fan of Naomi but her actions are coming from a place of love and concern as well as not so subtle homophobia. She’s still a mom who has provided a home and cared for Ethan for most of his life.”
Does this statement seem appropriate to you? Does any part of it seem reasonable, given the full context of what you know about the characters involved?
Straight up it does not matter that Linda is not abusive towards Sal the way that Blaine or Ross are towards Amber and Becky, respectively. It does not matter that the two of them never had a knife fight in the parking lot or that Sal’s life was ever threatened due to Linda’s actions. Defending her in this way because she’s “not as bad” is straight up fucking bullshit. Abuse is not a competition. Linda doesn’t get a free pass because she never tried to shoot up Sal’s school or beat her daughter or send her son to collect blackmail material on her.
Linda raised Sal in her house for 13 years. That’s a bare minimum duty for a parent. Ross did that. Blaine did that. Sir did that. That doesn’t mean shit. Does Linda love Sal, in her own way? Sure. That doesn’t mean that the way she parents, even if it has love behind it, still isn’t shitty. Clearly, the way she has raised her children has affected them negatively. I mean, this very moment is probably the catalyst for Sal robbing TWO convenience stores.
No one’s saying that Linda’s the most evil and abusive of the parents, but she’s still a fucking shitty parent, even if it “wasn’t that bad”.
It’s genuinely really offensive to lessen the effect an abusive parent has had on their child just because it wasn’t “as bad” as what other abusive parents have done. Please, reflect upon this.
This. Thank you. I was still trying to figure out how to put it into words and you said it with “abuse is not a competition”. It is all terrible. There really isn’t a wasn’t that bad because all that does is make the children from those situations feel like maybe they weren’t abused and maybe there is something wrong with them. Linda isn’t the most evil but she’s still and evil word that rhymes with witch.
As others have said, emotional abuse still leaves scars and can do some serious psychological damage, which is just as relevant to a person’s overall health as physical damage.
I have a chronic illness that causes daily pain. I also suffer from depression and anxiety, some of which was the result of an emotionally toxic family member, and a well-meaning family member that did harm even with the “best intentions.” I don’t view my physical pain as worse or more important than my psychological pain. I can’t be a healthy, productive, happy person without treating BOTH.
Who are the top 5? Blaine, Toedad (I genuinely don’t remember his name and don’t care to look it up), and Carol are up there. Who else aside from Linda? I guess Joe’s dad and Billie’s mom aren’t particularly good either, but I think Linda has at least one of those beaten in terms of awfulness.
She might be in the top five actuallyy. I was thinking of Clint, Blaine, Carol, Ross, Ethan’s mom, and I swear there was one more but I’m blanking. Joe’s dad not great though. Linda’s in the top 10 for sure though.
I wish I wasn’t so terrible with names. It is this post that reminded me that Toedad is named Ross. I have no honest clue who Clint and Carol are – although, if I had to guess, I’d go with “Ruth’s Grandpa” and “Joyce’s Mom”.
Ruth’s grandfather and Joyce’s mother, yes. I would definitely put Blaine and Toedad and Clint at the top three spots – especially since we already know all three of them have pulled this exact shit on the kids in their care as well. (Blaine and ‘I paid for this dorm room’ and Clint referring to Ruth’s RAdom as ‘his investment’ and using Howard as a hostage, Toedad needs no refresher.)
But this puts Linda currently at the peak of the Bad Mother List (until we see Carol again, anyway – this is entirely in line with her way of doing things as well,) because it’s such a huge control move. She’s extorting a thirteen-year-old to keep her from seeing a dear friend who’s been completely exemplary this whole time, who’s badly injured, and using that injury as a sign she’s ‘unsuitable company’ for Sal.
If Sal had acquiesced, this wouldn’t have been the only time Linda did it. Even now, I’m seriously worried she could and will pull it again. (Just as an example: ‘As soon as you switch majors to premed.’ Or ‘that girl’s clearly nothing compared to Dorothy. You can do better.’)
This strip is designed to be horrific the same way Toedad pulling the gun is. It’s the point at which we the audience see just how irredeemable this character is, because it puts all the previous implications into text. Toedad’s still a class of his own, but this is another way to control a child with another kind of threat, and Linda’s so completely blasé about it. And that part is what terrifies and enrages me.
Let me just say I’m not convinced Ethan’s mom is worse than Linda. Sure, she’s horribly homophobic, but Linda is horribly racist, towards her own daughter and her daughter’s only friend, and I feel Linda’s methods of abuse are just as bad or worse.
Or maybe it’s just that Sal was in a worse situation to begin with, since she was feeling guilty for Marcie’s injury… and anyway when your best friend suffers an injury like that and has a debt like that, what kind of friend would Sal be if she abandoned her like her mom wanted? And what does taking the money away say? Sal wasn’t gonna use the money for anything until she had enough anyway. She was trying very hard to be a good person, to do the right thing by the right ways, and her mom just took it all away. Money is symbolic, usually it simbolizes the kid’s ability to achieve things on their own, to save up and have control over something, and some independence, but in this case it also meant trying to be a good person and a good friend. Linda just said she would give it back if only Sal would abandon her friend, her loyalty and her goals. It’s like saying “hey, kid, you actually have no control over anything, your values are all worthless, the only way you will ever be accepted is if you give up on being a good person”
2 cups (12-oz. pkg.) NESTLÉ® TOLL HOUSE® Semi-Sweet Chocolate Morsels, divided
1/2 cup (1 stick) butter or margarine, cut into pieces
3 large eggs
1 1/4 cups all-purpose flour
1 cup granulated sugar
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
1/4 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 cup chopped nuts
oven to 350° F. Grease 13 x 9-inch baking pan.
MELT 1 cup morsels and butter in large, heavy-duty saucepan over low heat; stir until smooth. Remove from heat. Stir in eggs. Stir in flour, sugar, vanilla extract and baking soda. Stir in remaining 1 cup morsels and nuts. Spread into prepared baking pan.
BAKE for 18 to 22 minutes or until wooden pick inserted in center comes out slightly sticky. Cool completely in pan on wire rack. Cut into bars.
Stacey’s made a couple mistakes (like thinking Amber’s mental illness was just low blood sugar) but overall she’s well intentioned and kind to Amber and we’ve seen no hints of abuse from her. On the contrary, we know she risked her life escaping abuse with Amber (leaving is the most likely time a victim is murdered).
Carla’s parents seem solid, and . . . does Maggie count? Mike’s parents and Galasso seem neutral in this timeline, though it might just be we haven’t seen much of them.
True, though we haven’t seen Richard actually be bad to Stacy, and if anything, seems to be the opposite. of course, Joe isn’t convinced Richard won’t fall back on old ways and cheat on her.
I don’t think Richard is abusive – other than the cheating and the lies and all the other crap that goes along with that.
And I think it’s more that Joe doesn’t even have a moment’s doubt that Richard will cheat on her, probably sooner rather than later.
We are looking at university students in the middle of a term. Young adults who are supposed to be taking their first steps away from parental dependence.
So good parental figures will show up in phone calls and fond memories, like when Carla talked about her parents. They will probably come to campus only on the odd scheduled visit, like when we met Dorothy’s and Dina’s parents in 2013 – unless their child really needs them, like when we met Stacy.
Bad parental figures will show up in traumatic or otherwise unpleasant flashbacks, like with Amber’s dad and Sal’s mom. If they come to campus, it won’t be limited, it will be whenever they feel like injecting themselves into their child’s life – like we have seen with Toedad and Blaine.
It’s no surprise to me the latter get more screen time, but it doesn’t mean they’re all that’s out there.
All correct! (I had to look most of the names up on the wiki. Hank’s easy because King of the Hill reference, and Leslie was a main character in Shortpacked and her name’s also a pun.)
Jesus Christ, you’d think a parent would be PROUD that their children is being selfless and trying to collect money for a friend’s surgery.
Linda is acting as if this Sal’s weed money, not painstakingly slow fundraiser for another child in need
If Walky had done it, it would have been an extra credit project fot school. Or a boy scout equivalent thing.
Linda would have been actively raising money for him herself too.
Then Walky would admit he’d been skimming of the top to by himself stuff.
Linda, would brush aside any guilt he felt, tell him he still raised a lot, and take him out to by a really expensive gift for himself stuff.
In Linda’s mind, Sal could not have gotten that money any method other than something nefarious and unspeakable, because that is everything Sal’s friends and activities represent to her.
I remember a review of a punk rock album for an NPR program probably twenty years ago, and the man reviewing said “never before has anybody made ‘I love you’ sound like a THREAT.”
Tonight it’s been done TWICE.
I will say, though, that she was moved into this setting in a way that captures a lot of Linda’s… less than admirable qualities from Walkyverse and keeps them intact, while being less Gendo Ikari about it.
Gendo Ikari is actually very interesting to me, as I’ve been on an Evangelion binge the last few weeks. According to EoE, he actually did love his son, and most of his actions through the series were because he was afraid that if he let Shinji in he would hurt him, not realizing how much he hurt the boy by NOT letting him in.
According to some reviews I’ve read, Gendo is the logical endpoint that Shinji would end up at if he doesn’t get some FUCKING THERAPY.
Other noticeable things: According to sidebooks, Gendo used to get in a lot of fights in his youth and had terribly abusive parents (Another reason he actually feared getting close to Shinji. The fear of being just as horrible a parent as his own), and the reason he got so attached to Yui (Even taking her last name) and the reason her death hit him so hard was because she was the first (and apparently only) person to ever love him.
Wow, Linda really is a grade A conga, isn’t she? Saying your child can have their money when they develop healthy relationships? What fucking right do you have to judge Linda? You know nothing about Marcie and have made it clear you never want to know anything about her.
This is infuriating to an extreme level, knowing that Linda is also responsible for making Sal so desperate she would want to rob a convenience store. She might have already been on that path, but taking her money sure as hell accelerated the process. I said it yesterday and I’ll say it again, I hope after college she cuts her parents out of her life entirely.
I hope that stuff like this is why McHenry noped right out of a relationship with her, and Linda inevitably goes to him to get Sal expelled for getting better grades than her golden boy, he says “screw you” and gets the girl some scholarships so she can keep going to college.
But don’t you understand? Linda will KNOW that Walky’s bad grades are because Sal has introduced him to bad elements, so getting Sal expelled is for best for both their sakes. Walky can excel without Sals bad influence, and Sal can be back under parental guidance until she learns to obey and not make friends that Linda hasn’t approved first.
After this I’m now in ‘Walky, RUN’ mode. I feel confident Sal will get out of financial dependence as soon as she possibly can – she managed to save $700 on her own at thirteen, she must have some kind of income since she has a motorcycle and keeps it fueled, and she knows she can never ever trust her parents again – but Walky doesn’t know Linda will do this, nor has he been established as paying close attention to his finances. And someone who pulls a financial ultimatum with one kid who has friends she disapproves of can’t be trusted not to do it a second time with the other.
ah but there’s another problem. I don’t know about all manipulative parents necessarily, but in my experience and from the experiences I’ve heard about, parents will generally keep going the manipulation route through previously trained responses in the children up until the golden child straight up yolo’s because there’s too much stress and they (parents) feel like they are no longer in control of the situation. On top of that, golden children aren’t entirely dumb, they do realize some things happen, but they’re also trained to follow and obey by the time they’re Walky’s age, so that knowledge just feeds the fears their parents have cultivated that keep them in check. The kid literally probably can’t run without getting some kind of outside therapeutic help, even if from just friends, in order to retrain and relearn that parents are not almighty and the biggest threat given his emotional density and mental development so far.
That being said, should Walky yolo it, the snap of his mother’s sudden change in treatment of him most likely will be the final push to get him to realize that she is toxic af, and he will be well on his way to actually running and possibly changing for the better. But that’s just a theory; a Willis’ psychology theory
Yeah, my experience is secondhand knowledge from the three of my familial Blaine’s children who got out of there and the two that are pretty clearly stuck there until he dies, and that’s that if a manipulator like this wants to keep you here they are very good at doing so. (And even after years of therapy, my parent still has issues and guilt over keeping their relationship strained.) I’m not entirely certain my aunt and uncle would keep the distance from him they do if they still had family in that household besides him, and he hadn’t acted completely beyond the pale one of the first times my aunt visited with a grandchild.
tbh you’re right unless the hypothetical family still existing in the household didn’t feed the cycle by rationalizing his actions and/or accepting it as him “just being him”. Trying to drag my gf out of her situation, but I’m afraid she’s about as stuck as the two you’ve mentioned are until one of them (her or the abusive manipulator) leaves.
Yeah, it’s one of those things where I don’t think the younger kids and his wife are likely to get much independence until and unless he dies. Which is a thing that makes me kind of sad but they’re adults and have said they don’t want contact with the older siblings, so. It is what it is.
Best of luck to you and your girlfriend. Shit is rough.
I find that what happens is usually the manipulative parent will also manipulate the golden child into believing the abused child is doing things to justify the abuse. Walky’s pointed yelling about how good he was being? That probably wasn’t directed at Sal, but Linda. He in some way KNOWS what’s going on, and knows that if he does something to displease his mom, he’ll be treated like Sal. So going along with his parents is both self-preservation and successful manipulation into believing Sal deserved her abuse. He’s only just now realizing that his parents did fucked up shit.
Ooh, this is an excellent point. Now that I’m thinking about it (because from experience, that’s EXACTLY what manipulative parents do), Walky’s behavior there makes a lot more sense. The golden child in my family learned to always make himself look like the good one just to make sure he’d never be treated badly like his sister. (Who was also doing her damnedest to make him look good for the same reason, but that’s another story.)
I have some words, but most of them are filtered out here so it comes out not nearly as biting as I would like.
I would also like to say this situation is unbelieveable but I have seen it happen to some of my cousins. Granted they never got the money back, so it is slightly different.
Yeah, I’m thinking right now of my biological grandfather. To my knowledge he never pulled this specific scenario on his kids, but between the horror stories I do know and what little we have of the financial situation with his last wife and their kids, I would not put something like this past him. He definitely took things from my great-grandparents’ house that were left to other people when they died. I hate him with the cold, seething hate of someone who never had any real contact because his children all decided they wouldn’t expose their kids to his shit but knows enough as an adult to see where he hurt people I love and hate him for it.
When a character reminds me of that vampire, that’s a sign they’re pretty damned irredeemable.
I, too, titter with amusement whenever one of the common rout wildly overreacts to a trivial piece of fiction, to the point of such histrionics as posting a comment in a comment section specifically devoted to discussing people’s feelings about that piece of fiction. Thankfully in this instance you were there to remind them (very generously on your part, given that they are a total stranger about whose life you know nothing) that there is a difference between fiction and reality, that online comic strips are fictional, and that it’s therefore completely inappropriate and ridiculous to think or feel anything about them that cannot be expressed with a mere smirk. I definitely speak for everyone with taste when I say how grateful we are that you stepped in when you did and issued such a vitally necessary and, above all, kind bit of reassurance.
Don’t worry, Regalli isn’t actually combusting with rage. They’re just engaging in metaphoric hyperbole to express how upsetting this behavior is, real or not.
Walky has a fundamentally different relationship with his parents and has no reason tp hate his mom. Remember this is all from Sal’s perspective. To her, Linda’s the bad guy. We don’t actually get to see Walky’s perspective on this or Linda’s for that matter. While I don’t really like Linda from what I’ve seen of her or approve of her opinion and actions here, she’s far from horrible in my opinion.
even without it being from sal’s pov, her actions are actually manipulative and very mentally harmful even as individual actions. If Sal were an adult at this point, it would not be hard to say that the taking of 700 dollars is wrong and forcing Sal to feel like she has no control over her own life. For a minor, this is something even worse. They generally usually have no income, or it is an amount so paltry that 700 dollars is no amount to sneeze at for them. They are also very much dependent on their parents financially and mentally/emotionally. This is stringing the child along and telling them that they have no control over their life, since their choices and possessions are forfeit to the parents’ will. Maybe Linda isn’t the parent stealing the money their kids scrabbled and scraped to save up, just to shoot up at 9pm, but this still has the same effect. 13 is about when kids are learning to become responsible for themselves (or at least, kind of trying to. They’re starting to really figure out who they are as people) and to teach them that they have no control over their lives can set them up for failure, since they can resort to pretty damning things in order to try and feel some control or at least like they had choices. It’s not just kids that will do this, I’ve met adults who do the same. It’s horrible to lose control over your life, and at 13, financial control is about one of the only real things that you can control since you may not even know who you are yet.
To top it off, Sal was saving towards a goal. Her mother literally said “that’s a poop goal” and took it away from her. That’s crippling for an adult, but for a child? Linda is horrible in this singular moment, at the very least. She knows what she’s doing to her kid. She doesn’t care about the lasting effects. That’s the definition of horrible parenting right there, knowing you messing your kid up and not caring so long as you’re happy. An even worse parent would try to delude the kids (even the unrelated to the situation children) into thinking that it was fine without addressing the fun little problems-with-trust-in-humanity side effects when the the kids are grown, which most likely, Linda has done.
She stole money from a child that was meant for another child’s *medical expenses*. I know the bar for horrible here has been set really damn high by Toedad and Blaine, but Linda Walkerton is currently doing her best to at least peek over the top of that bar.
Hating Walky because he doesn’t hate Linda is fairly irrational. In Walky’s eyes, Sal was a troublemaker and his mom was just being a mom. It is only now that he is older that he realizes more and more that wasn’t actually the case. So expecting him to suddenly 180 on his views of his mother is unrealistic.
Abusers do a great job of being kind to the people they don’t abuse, and what Linda is doing to Sal definitely qualifies as emotional abuse. She doesn’t have to lay a hand on her, she can tear Sal down with words and actions alone.
Yeah, I’m not mad at Walky. There are things I get mad at young Walky for, like throwing his sister under the bus (albeit, probably unintentionally) and for tuning out her problems when she tried to talk to him, but there was nothing he could have done here, even if he were trying to help.
Another take on Walky is that his extreme insecurities about his relationship to his parents and his need to always project his childish-but-perfect-persona is that he knows very well how conditional his parents love is, and what happens to a child that steps out of line.
He doesn’t hate Linda because he is busy being fudging terrified of her.
Again, with the ultimatum? This is extortion. And it says that if Linda doesn’t like what you want to do with your money, whether that’s help a friend or save for an apartment somewhere she doesn’t like, she will take it until you bow to her demands. I am fudging terrified of Linda for Walky.
I wonder if Walky’s “lovable goofball who doesn’t pay attention much and gets treated well as long as he doesn’t fail them” persona is as much a reaction to his toxic household as Sal’s angry loner facade. He’s clever enough to realise his father keeps his head down and manages to get through, so he doesn’t challenge her, obeys the rules, jokes when he’s obeying them and Sal is not (because he does love his sister and doesn’t want her to get into trouble and trys to deflect) all because it’s easier than standing up for himself again’st an opponent he considers an unstoppable force when roused.
How to you not get smashed by an unstoppable force? Don’t get in its way.
Which is ironic because what she THINKS she wants in her son is confident and ambitious, but what she GETS with her particular brand of tyranny is malleable and underhand.
Way to fudge up both of your kids, Charles and Linda.
Oh, that rather happens. Like, my mother isn’t anywhere near the same league as Linda, but the basic idea is very familiar. I feel like there’s a reason that both my sister and myself have grown to have the personal initiative of a dead log. Just don’t make waves and don’t rile her up, and things go well.
woahhhhh i knew linda was horrible but i DID NOT COMPREHEND how far and how fast we were plunging down Please-Just-Set-Me-On-Fire-For-The-Good-of-the-Timeline Ravine.
Sweet jegus I have knew respect for what good a job Sal did of raising HERSELF, all things considered.
I mean she’s a fuggen mess but consider the alternatives.
The more we see of it, the more does it look like robbing a convenience store at age 13 was a perfectly rational choice for Sal. It got her out of the house.
Yeah, and Linda actually appears to have wrote her off permanently for it. She doesn’t pay any attention to Sal, but she wasn’t demanding Sal come to the family dinner with Dorothy and the Keeners and play nice to make them look good.
And the fact that Linda’s first scenes completely ignoring Sal look like a good thing now is just painful.
I really really want to know more about the “incident”. Why Marcie was injured and what role sal played in all this. I wonder whether she actually is right to try to keep her kid away from people who live a dangerous life. I’ve always wondered how a laid-back girl like marcie got into a fight that serious.
Sal didn’t object when Linda said that marcies family were criminals. Hm. Do we know something about her parents?
Pretty certain their main crime is being in the US without a Green card – there is a decent chance that also means they’re poor and may live in a less than affluent neighbourhood.
Not really the sort of friend who’ll encourage Sal to whitewash herself…
Pretty much this. Look at the things Linda actually holds against Marcie
– Who she lives with (not her fault)
– Where she lives (not her fault)
– Her immigration status (not her fault)
– Her disability (not her fault)
Linda’s being complete shit here. Sal seems to think the fights SHE got in were to blame, so it’s not too far a stretch to think it was someone Sal was in a fight with rather than Marcie’s parents or other friends being to blame.
To my knowledge, there are houses in USA where illegals live in a huge amount, mostly because they are cheap and the owners don’t ask questions. What if the family lives in such a house? While most illegals are keen on keeping a low profile, organized crime also is a thing. What if some really dangerous people live next to marcie? What if marcie and sal got caught up in some kind of fight between them?
This would explain why sal found people who rob a store with her. I mean, 13year olds usually don’t really know many robbers. It could also explain marcies wish to be a police officer.
It would also explain Lindas behaviour in the last strips. I feel that bigotry is a way too easy explanation for all this. Most Charakters Willis draws are more complex than that.
I’ll wait until I know more about all this before I judge Linda. I mean, she’s pushy and has no concept of boundaries at all, which isn’t good, but I’m unsure about the degree of shittiness she has. This could be a try to protect her daughter.
We’ve seen Linda all the time and a lot of her personality is wrapped up in bigotry. She didn’t like Marcie from day one with no inkling of her parents around. And if Sal and Marcie got caught up in a fight between unrelated criminals, I could see Sal having survivor’s guilt, especially since she’s a very protective person, but it wouldn’t explain why she’s so sure it was HER fault it happened and why she felt it was so important she promised to personally swear off fighting. This scenario could be hypothetically possible, but incredibly unlikely in universe and out of universe it doesn’t make sense at all because the whole point of this particular plot thread is that Linda and Charles’ bigotry ruined their relationship with their daughter. That doesn’t make sense at all if they’re actually right.
Because she’s protective and as such might have escalated things? Remember how she got angry at ag for escalating stuff and therefore endangering others? Could be projection. Most people would have thought about ag endangering herself when she ran towards a lunatic with a gun. But not sal. I’ve always wondered about that..
As I said, I’ll wait. Sal definitely is in need of protection right now. The question is protection from whom. Might be Linda, might be someone around marcie, might be both or neither. I’ll wait for an answer to that question until I pass judgement.
….We just saw Linda being extremely emotionally abusive. There is no ‘might be’ here. Sal absolutely needs to get away from Linda. This also ignores that Linda’s been shown time and again to be racist, including not liking Marcie when she was five and before Linda would have known anything about her parents or neighbourhood. Considering the story trajectory and the characters involved, it’s more likely that this is Linda’s racism talking, especially when she just spewed a ton of racism, classism, and ableism. It being some sort of organized crime incident they were caught up in undermines the plot point about Linda. It also doesn’t sound much like the information we DO have about the Diazes – Marcie seems to have gotten her mostly non-violent way of thinking from her mom. There’s also the fact she’s blaming all of this on Marcie and if your scenario were true, that would be even worse because it throws (even more) victim blaming on top of it. And if Linda’s so concerned about Sal because oh, Marcie’s really living with criminals, maybe she should call CPS already. Marcie being safe is more important than the Diazes getting to stay in the States. At this point, we have more than enough evidence Linda’s a shit mother, even if this is true though, and so the point about Sal needing to be away from her stands.
I’m speaking about protecting her from getting involved into a robbery. While she definitely is a shitty parent, that alone doesn’t make you commit severe crimes.
She does have a lot of prejudices, yes, but that doesn’t mean she isn’t right about the people surrounding marcie. Sal does slip into something horrible within a few months. And if she got into that circle through the people around marcie, she does have a point.
Calling child service would most likely end in her being deported. The family is illegal. And depending on where they came from, that can be way worse. There are things she could have done for marcie in that scenario (not that she’d bother to actually help her), but child service probably would have been a bad idea.
However, she also didn’t call the police and got them out. That would have been an option. That’s not the kind of racism she has. That’s another thing that doesn’t match for me. She’s not openly hostile against coloured people without reason, her racism is more subtle.
Except this scenario you’re spinning has no evidence outside of Linda’s racism. The sum of the evidence that there are criminals involved is that the Diaz’s are (likely) undocumented and poor. Everything else you’ve got is pure fantasy.
We’ve even seen an starter to stealing from convenience stores that isn’t some Latino street gang, but the much more respectable (white) looking Asher.
It absolutely can. Lots of juvenile criminals get involved via lashing out at crappy situations.
Yeah, I don’t think the takeaway from this story is gonna be ‘And it turned out Linda’s racism is right!’ Somehow, that doesn’t sound like Willis. There’s absolutely no evidence for this except Linda not liking them. Heck, we don’t even know Asher lives near Marcie – for all we know, he’s another kid who goes to Sal’s school. Heck, neither of them seemed to even like Asher much until Sal took the cigarette (which A) Has been established as her mother’s influence, not his and B) Was only after she confirmed it wasn’t stolen). And if anybody’s gonna lead to the robbery, it’s probably gonna be Asher. As for the fight that stole Marcie’s voice, I’m not sure why we should suspect some racism-affirming Latino gang as opposed to the kid we’ve ALREADY SEEN Sal getting in a fight and escalating with – Leland.
It would certainly get her parents deported. I’m not sure what the protocol is with undocumented children in CPS cases, but as I’m sure we’re all too aware, it’s possible for undocumented children to end up in US foster care (and kidnapped via ‘adoption’ which the courts have shown they won’t allow parents to even see them never mind regain custody).
And you’re right. Linda could have done a lot for Marcie in that scenario. She didn’t. So I repeat – if she’s so damn concerned about Marcie, she needs to do something about it.
Linda was openly hostile about Marcie when she was five years old. And we’ve STILL yet to see her speak to Sal without yelling/being angry, including when Sal was five and absolutely did not warrant the yelling and swearing she was doing.
Yes. Sure. Still, it’s possible. And I’m not a fan of prejudging people before I know all facts. And judging by marcies current living conditions, her family isn’t exactly rich.
I don’t know where you are, but 13year old criminals are usually organised crime here. Not acts of rebellion. And I’ve never heard of a 13year old robber here. Perhaps it’s different in us but here, that’s basically unheard of. No matter how bad your parents are. And there are a lot parents who are a lot worse than Linda.
I’d actually like it if there was more to this story than just those black-and-white characters. I like complex characters. Life isn’t black and white in my experience. We’ll see.
Well at least she didn’t report her parents. That would have ended the friendship and she’d have her will.
We currently are in sals memories from her childhood. And she’s remembering her road to becoming a criminal. I doubt we’ll see any happy moments. And yes, Linda is a bad mother who doesn’t know how to handle her own child. Still, I believe her in the last panel. She does care about Sal and she is convinced that there is a danger somewhere around marcie. I’m curious whether she’s right about this. We do know that she’ll meet or already has met some dangerous people.
I can’t even follow what you think is going on here. Sal and Marcie got in a fight with a Latino street gang? Which somehow ended with Sal unhurt and Marcie with a strange injury and no apparent police involvement? I guess it could just have been unarmed young teen hangers on of the actual street gang, cause tough as Sal is, that wouldn’t have turned out well.
And now Sal’s hooking up with that gang to turn to her life of crime? Why?
It’s not more likely she’s been influenced by the very white character we saw introduced for no other apparent purpose? Where it was emphasized that he was stealing?
And I guess the part you want not to “black and white” is that all the hints throughout the comic about Linda’s racism and crappy parenting are red herrings and she’s just rightly concerned about Sal’s rebellious ways and the influence of dangerous people like the Diaz family on her?
Seriously? Marcie not being rich does not make her family criminals. We have no evidence of that other than Linda’s racism and classism. The fact we haven’t met them yet means it’s hypothetically possible, but incredibly unlikely.
Seriously? 13 year olds do very much get into crime – mostly petty crime, I’ll grant, but yes, more serious ones like assault, robbery, etc. do happen. That why juvenile detention exists.
You want a complex character? Sal’s right there. You want complexity from Linda? Check out her relationships with Walky (who she DOES actually care about, but has wreaked havoc on his self esteem) or Billie (who she’s basically taken in as another daughter because her own parents don’t care about her, despite Linda being a shit mother to her own daughter). That complexity is probably not going to come in the form of ‘Linda’s right and the Diazes are dangerous criminals/live with dangerous criminals’.
And the fact Linda didn’t report them doesn’t make that either she’s incredibly emotionally abusive to her daughter (my read) or treating her badly while ignoring the fact a child she knows is in a bad situation (if you’re right and Marcie’s in a dangerous spot) better.
That dangerous person was a white kid, not someone from a ‘latino street gang’ who engaged in shoplifting and underage smoking. Which isn’t great, but are hardly the worst things in the world and are not in fact, unheard of crimes from juveniles. And regardless of whether or not Linda loves Sal, it’s meaningless because she does emotionally abusive things and uses her love as a weapon.
No. Even if we allowed that she would block Sal’s donation as a “concerned parent” (which I do not) – She stole money raised in a crowdfunding campaign. That is literal theft, from strangers, from a charitable effort.
She is a thief. She is a bad parent. She is a bad person.
My hypothesis is that Sal got into a fight, Marcie intervened and maybe got stabbed, or at least punched in the throat. Of course, now I’ve put it into words, I’d say theres a 100% chance of that not being the case, but it fits what we know about the two kids and would explain Sal’s guilt over the incident.
“I just can’t imagine what would make her think stealing is OK. Must be the friend she has I know nothing about aside from race/injury I’ve decided is a terrible influence.”
“I only stole from her, told her she was powerless, manipulated her into feeling like dirt and ordered her to abandon her friend as she didn’t make me look good.”
As you can see, I am a perfect parent. Just ask my other child. an emotionally unstable manchild with a deep rooted fear of failure but also deeply ingrained belief he shouldn’t stand out who’se had any ambition or independence ground out of him”
Geeze willis, you’re not pulling any punches on shitty parents any more are you…
Today’s recommended reading –
Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts by Carol Tavris. A non-specialists intro to directed reasoning, behavioral economics and the cognitive tricks we use to convince ourselves that we always act properly.
Linda…is hitting unpleasantly home for me. Wow. Was very much not expecting this level of emotional response, but here I am, suddenly 13 again and crying in bed.
That’s how you know it’s good writing. Willis, if this is one of those autobio moments in any way, I’m offering appropriate gestures of support.
yeah, same. That being said, though my mom could be something of a disciplinarian control freak at her worst moments, she was never cold. I always somehow knew deep down that when she said she did it out of love, she meant it. 15 years later, I still keep in contact with her, and we miss each other a lot (mom’s in Europe, I’m in Australia). I dunno, gang, am I too forgiving?
You are describing a “Tiger Mom”. I have doubts about this style of parenting, but I did not experience it myself, so I can’t say if it’s good, bad, or indifferent. You sound unsure yourself.
I guess the question would be, would (or do) you use this style yourself?
Honestly, the only “extra” thing I’d expect from my child would be for them to learn *a* skill/vocation, be passionate about it, do it well enough to be self-sufficient, and to take pride in doing it well. Whether it’s playing piano, sculpture, Magic: The Gathering, or software engineering.
Different parenting styles work for different kids. If what your Mom did led to you becoming a healthy, functioning adult, if she has your back when you really need it, and if you know she would change her ways if it was hurting you, then being a disciplinarian is fine and you have a healthy loving parent-child relationship.
If you’re not *sure*, then, well, it could go either way.
Everyone’s already said this too, but I am absolutely livid at Linda. Just… that’s so awful. I mean, Blaine and Toedad are also awful, OBVIOUSLY, but this is, I guess, more of the kind of parental awfulness that more people are personally familiar with? Like, not necessarily the “stealing large amounts of hard-earned, meant-to-be-spent-selflessly money from your child” bit, but just… this is so fucking abusive and I’m mad. (Which is exactly how I’m supposed to feel, but DAMN it.)
Also, I’m not saying that Sal’s later actions will be completely justified, but they’re striking me as more and more sympathetic with each strip of these flashbacks. Damn it, Linda, your daughter is just trying to be a good person (unlike you), so LET HER. (Also, is it any wonder Sal tends to act like she doesn’t care when this is what acting like she cared got her?)
Sure, I’d be worried that she was trying to take on too much and would want to talk about reasonable limitations and other ways to try to help. Not accuse her of being a bad person and confiscating the money she has tried to gather to help her friend.
I don’t think Linda is worried in that sense. If she was worried, she wouldn’t have said the whole spiel about looking like a bad parent, and definitely would not have brought up the crap ton of issues regarding Marcie being a “bad friend to have”
There’s being worried about your child feeling responsible for paying someone else’s medical bill, and there’s being worried that your (black) daughter is caught up in a “bad crowd” because she’s friends with undocumented children and you’re not-so-subtly racist. Linda is clearly the latter, otherwise she would have had a conversation with Sal about trying to save up all the money for Marcie’s operation on her own. And not, you know, “stop being friends with Marcie, btw I’m taking money that you rightfully earned away until you make friends that I approve of”.
I hate Linda and I really hate her dad, just because HE CLEARLY FEELS BAD BUT ISN’T DOING ANYTHING. Like obviously Linda is worse but Jesus, dude, this comic is viscerally upsetting.
The powerlessness is really what’s hitting home for me. Parents who make their children feel this powerless—even outright saying, “No you won’t,” denying Sal even the slightest bit of agency in it all—are absolutely awful parents.
Extra points docked if they justify it with bullshit reasoning like “I love you” while blatantly ignoring threats from their children, because they assume their child unconditionally loves them. I know that as a child, I was afraid of situations like these, but was also likely to persuade myself that it was a challenge to actually make good on what I said and possibly more. She actively doesn’t believe her kid could be anything but what she believes them to be, and this could be so much more dangerous if Sal wasn’t actually a real sweetheart (e.g.: I once almost stabbed my brother in the eye with a fork when we were kids after he ignored two warnings from me. He closed his eyes and I stopped in time, he had a scrape on his eyelid for a week after that. If I were in Sal’s shoes, and any bit less trained to obey out of belief that my parents cared for my well being, Linda may have been the one to be held at knife point instead of Ethan.)
Hell, I’m getting the read that her DAD is also feeling powerless here. That has to suck majorly. Linda seems to have this household in a vice grip, and as a kid, when you know not even *other authority figures* can do shit to defend you… well, that’s not a happy place.
I hope not. At some point I’d like Sal to stop caring about her mother. To be able to say completely genuinely “You mean nothing to me.” It’s the healthiest thing for Sal and the most appropriate punishment for Linda.
Understandable. But you never stop having feelings about someone who profoundly hurt you for several years of your life. Whether you forgive them or not, whether you cut them out of your life or let them stay, whether you’re glad to be free or mourning the healthy relationship you never had with them, that damage stays with you for the rest of your life. It can heal, but those scars are always there, and you’re always gonna feel some kinda way about them.
True, and a very good point. It will impact her ability to trust and will always be a regret that she didn’t have a good upbringing. But I do want her to not hate her mother forever. Sal doesn’t need to carry that burden with her. I’d rather it morph into a disdain and the ability to just cut Linda out of her life.
Speaking as someone who probably will hate someone else forever, it’s less of a burden than you’d think. You can still move on with your life and have the other person be a complete non-factor and still hate them whenever they’re brought up.
Me too! I’m glad to see someone else in the hater group. Now that I’m out of Christianity, I kind of don’t understand what the problem is with hating someone. Hating people because they behave despicably, especially when they are in positions of power, seems kind of like . . . a natural and proportionate response.
I can get on board with this too. I was bullied constantly for two years in elementary school. It’s nowhere near as bad as being abused by a parent, but it left scars and I don’t think I’ll ever forgive them for how they treated me. And I’m ok with that. I’ve used that anger and pain to make myself who I am today. And for the most part I like who I am.
…one of the biggest and most difficult steps of growing up is to stop viewing your parents as “Parents” and start viewing them as “People”.
It’s so easy to treat them as this Parental Authority Figure. Either because they’re an authority to be respected, or an authority that you hate and resent.
And, yeah, Sal’s mother is a fucking piece of trash (all this assuming that these are “actually how things happened” we’re not dealing with unreliable narrator situations, the blue tinted context makes me wonder a touch). As far as I’m concerned, she has no obligation or reason to make peace with her parents in any way.
But it’s just this bit that I’ve been thinking over with this part of the arc. Walky viewed his parents as parents to be loved unquestionably, and knowledge of the racism is shaking him out of that. But… I wonder if Sal views them as people…
I dunno. Just a weird tangent that’s been running through my mind. Certainly not the main thrust of this arc.
As far as I can tell, there’s nothing in the flashbacks that’s been anymore unreliable than any other strip. Even the red panels.
We might see only one side of the story, with other perspectives left out – like the original scenes of the robbery from Amber/Ethan’s point of view, but the scenes have always been the real past. Nothing distorted, like you might get from a child’s memory.
Yeah, just put that in there to cover bases. The notion that there might be some Rashomon stuff going on (especially with how, um, massively racist and evil Sal’s mother is acting) isn’t impossible, felt like I should at least acknowledge that its in the realm of possibility.
I guess my problem with this is it seems people are only raising this possibility with Sal’s flashback. We didn’t have that problem when Amber or Mike had flashbacks. We had doubts about Mike’s intentions but not that the events had happened.
I think it’s because of how, well, horrifically vile Linda is acting here. It’s like, what’s she going to do next, punch the puppy Sal’s always wanted in front of her?
Granted, it’s a bit lower on the totem pole than a teacher physically striking kid!Mike, but it’s still kinda “woof, that’s just awful, there… is there something more nuanced here maybe?”, and it’s been a running theme with Linda, especially in these flashbacks.
Because while people like Linda are certainly realistic… there’s a part of many people that wants it not to be, that people with such hateful, racist mindsets have some sort of deep reason behind it. That maybe there’s some way to get them to not be awful people.
………I’m one of those people, and boy howdy, these last two years have been fucking shit for my liver.
Mind you, it’s been a running theme with all the abusive villains.
There’s always one strand of commenters switching instantly from “That’s not so bad.” to “That’s not realistic, too cartoonish”.
And another group going “Yeah, that was my life”.
Makes sense. I normally like to give the benefit of the doubt too, but I’m also a big believer in ‘If someone shows you they are a bigot/abuser/wilfully ignorant/a general asshole, believe them’, so that kinda tempers my goodwill a lot, especially lately.
The thing here is that the critical ingredient for using a Unreliable Narrator in any kind of story is that you need it to be clear that there IS a narrator who might be unreliable, because without that it just looks like bad writing.
There’s been no narrator established here. This flashback is focusing on Sal and her side of things, but in the last present-day scene we saw her in she was explicitly refusing tell Joyce a story about her past.
We’ve also seen Willis do that kind of narrated flashback before, waaay back when Sarah was telling Joyce what happened with Dana. Even though a couple strips go without, the sequence started out with Sarah explicitly narrating it, and jumped back to the present where Sarah was telling the story to Joyce.
Yeah, it’s not clear to me that the blue flashbacks are explicitly someone’s memory rather than just using their memory as a narrative device for showing us the past.
Were all the previous flashbacks explicitly one character’s point of view? The ones in the last chapter seemed to be including both things Ethan knew and Mike knew.
Oh boy, oh boy, if you guys thought yesterday’s strip was bad for my blood pressure, you should’ve seen me last night when this went live on patreon. I was in shock for a second and then everything went white. I actually gave myself a headache, I was so angry.
HOLY FUCKBERRIES AND CREAM WHAT IS WRONG WITH HER FUCKING PARENTS?!?!
Panel One: When I first read yesterday’s strip, I thought nothing could make me want to scratch Linda Walkerton’s eyes out more, but I was wrong. Seriously, we’re shitting on MARCIE for this incident? You realize, lady, Sal feels like that’s her fault, right? I don’t know if she’s right to feel that way, but that’s still not on Marcie. Oh wait, no, that’d require you to A) Pay attention to your daughter and give a hot wet shit how she feels and B) According to her logic, that would make Sal the problem and THAT can’t be right, because that might make people look twice at Linda’s FUCKING ABYSMAL parenting and god knows we can’t have THAT, can we? And yeah, clearly, Marcie can’t talk anymore and she’s poor and brown, so she’s clearly worthless as a friend, right? Sal may as well cut her losses. And of course Charles doesn’t say anything, he’s just gonna stand there and silently co-sign his wife and let her do whatever the fuck she wants because he’s either too weak willed to stand up to her or because he agrees with her. Either way, fuck him too. We’ve seen no sign he’s been abused as well so I have very little patience for him.
God, I’m only one panel in and I’m already surprised how much I hate these racist, classist, ableist pieces of shit.
Panel Two: And of course she goes through her daughter’s stuff and took her money. Who wants kids to feel like they’re secure and their stuff’s integrity will be respected in their own home? Not Linda, that’s for sure!
Panel Three: I’m super proud of Sal for raising or saving that much money. That’s incredibly impressive <3 And I'm glad I was wrong and there is a surgery that could hypothetically have helped Marcie. That is literally the only happy thing about this strip.
Panel Four: Yeah, Linda? That's called stealing. You don't get to take other people's stuff without permission. I understand there's something to be said for taking privileges away when kids aren't behaving, but there's a difference between not giving your kid an allowance because she came home late and taking her money because it's not in a bank and you can. But this isn't about actual parenting, it's about Linda controlling her daughter and trying to coerce her into not spending time with the friend Linda doesn't like.
Panel Five: Oh, honey, I was there a long ass time ago. Blaine and Ross and Clint are still worse than the Walkertons, but they're the ones I hate the most. Partially because Sal's my favourite and partially because their emotional digs get my blood boiling.
Panel Six: Fuck you right in the ear, lady. Even before we get into 'stealing your daughter's money' and 'shitting on and forbidding her from helping her best friend who's in a bad situation and did nothing wrong', you're also issuing her a challenge there and dismissing her feelings in one go. Impressive, if it weren't so pathetic.
You realize you can love AND hate someone at the same time, right, Linda, you piece of shit? That's kinda Sal's whole problem tbh. Part of her loves you and wants you to love her back, part of her is just sad about the shit you pull, and part of her absolutely will hate you forever and its your own damn fault.
And fuck you, Charles, if you're not going to say or do shit for your daughter, you don't get to pull the sad kicked in the gut face when she says she hates you. Fuck off.
Panel Seven: And the shit cherry on the shit sundae. Using 'I love you' as a weapon and telling her to go to bed like nothing happened. Of course. God I hate Linda.
In conclusion: I don't ever want to hear anybody say Sal's a bad or ungrateful daughter ever again. It's a testament to how much she loves her parents that she still tries at all. Frankly, they're lucky Sal didn't tear the house apart to get her money back the next time they weren't home and then steal some of theirs for good measure to get a bus ticket as far as she could afford.
Yeah, Linda is vile as shit, and Charles does exactly NOTHING to make anything better.
The message she got when she was a kid is now repeated, loud and clear: Her parents does not think her best friend matters. Her parents don’t think her best friend deserves protection, support, a place in the world or basic human decency. They will actively prevent Sal from trying to help her. Anything Sal can do for and with Marcie has to be DESPITE her parents, not thanks to them. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-7/01-glower-vacuum/liability/
And… good lord. Stealing her money? Not only preventing her from exercising her own agency, not only preventing her from helping her friend (I mean, it’s not like she saved to buy a miljon candy bars or a sweet hog or something), not only hammering home how little basic security and integrity Sal has in her own home… but NOW! In the middle of the night when Sal is already in an extreme disadvantage and virtually standing before a tribunal. “Oh, by the way, we just stole your shit. Anyway, let’s go back to how you are a very bad daughter.”
Toedad demonstrated for Becky loud and clear that her only chance of life and freedom was away from him. Linda makes it a very real risk for Sal that she will never get away. No wonder she felt the need to break every rule hard enough for her parents to finally allow her out of their sight.
I know right? The robbery still isn’t JUSTIFIED, but boy howdy if this built up hasn’t got me to ‘not angry’ (I mean, I wasn’t before because I KNEW her parents had a role in this but still).
Thank you! I know the comic made that joke already (about the same person, even!),but Walky strikes me as someone who would annoy Marcie a lot, so I had to do the thing.
and… holy shit, I finally found my account invite for that darn website! it wasn’t in spam, but I swear it never actually showed up in my inbox. … ooh, it’s happening to new emails too. I think Inbox is marking them as done the instant they arrive. :/ weiiiird.
Not quite the same situation, but when I was a teen, my mom used to take money from my saving bag that I secretly kept in my drawer. I only found out because one day she gleefully bragged how she found my savings and said she “borrowed” some when she needed to pay stuff in cash, like isn’t she “so smart and resourceful?”. I remember screaming at her for stealing my money. Granted my mom did gave me back the amount she owed me, but the trust was broken and was never gained back.
I remember being unbelievably furious back then. What Sal went through was so, so much worse. She’s not even saving up for herself, but for a super selfless reason!!! This is something unbelievably fucked up to go through.
I don’t agree with anything Linda has to say about Marcie. But I can understand taking the money, to presumably use to pay for Sal’s college, or whatever. Even if it is a scumbag thing to do, it is not without a certain motherly logic. Assuming she is actually going to use the money for Sal’s benefit, of course.
Pfft, no. She’s not. She even says right here she’s going to keep it until Sal has ‘healthier’ friendships (i.e. friends who aren’t poor, brown, or disabled).
Yes, I do. However misguided and controlling she is, she has demonstrated nothing other than the fact that she cares deeply about her daughter’s future. Elsewise, why spend so much time critiquing her.
No. She doesn’t care about Sal other than how people’s opinions towards Linda are affected by Sal. Last strip, the first thing she says is that Sal is making her look like a bad parent.
I think that’s a huge assumption to make based on one sentence, and it in no way proves that she doesn’t care about Sal, even if her methods are reprehensible.
When your only focus is on how your daughter’s making you look and you emotionally abuse said daughter, I do think it throws into question how much you actually care about them. She’s gone over the line from misguided and into abusive. And her ‘caring about her daughter’s future’ is only the future SHE wants for her daughter and the way SHE wants her daughter to be. What Sal wants or needs (the things you need to care about to actually love someone) are irrelevant. Frankly, even if she does love her, it’s not good enough. Love doesn’t cut it when you’re being abusive.
This woman not only is abusive to Sal, she told Dorothy that Walky is NOT going to school for what he thinks he declared his major as – meaning she’s also abusive to Walky. She doesn’t care about either of her kids – she cares about how people think she raised her kids. Why was Sal sent to hard-ass boarding school in another state after she robbed the gas station, when it’s proven time and again that jail time (which is what that type of “school” amounts to) is at best not beneficial to petty criminals and at worst messes them up permanently? Because Linda had to make a point that Sal wasn’t a part of her household once she wasn’t “acceptable” to her white-assed friends.
Stealing from your kids and only being willing to return it if they stop speaking to their best friend because you don’t like them is both financially and emotionally abusive and her ‘acting in Sal’s best interests’ does not excuse it any more than Clint acting in Ruth’s ‘best interests’ did.
Yeah, Linda not returning the money at all after saying she would?? That’s abusive. Everything about this scenario is abusive. Parents do not have a right to take money from their children. Point blank. You can argue that parents have a right to confiscate material objects (toys, video game consoles, phones) and to a point, that is not abusive. But straight up taking money from your child that she earned all on her own is abusive, even without Linda not intending to ever give it back. That is not right in any sense of the word, and it doesn’t matter how much Linda cares about Sal. That is garbage.
Why would she do that? Sal’s the one ‘wasting her life’ and doing things she shouldn’t. If she spent it at all and didn’t just keep it as a power play, it’s more likely she’d spent it on Walky than Sal.
She stayed up late for a power play where she’s taking her daughter’s money to coerce her into not seeing her best friend anymore. I’m missing the ‘caring’ part here.
To control your daughter and get her to behave how you want them to. And again, all Linda focused on last strip was how Sal made them look bad by hanging out with Marcie.
By that logic Blaine is an extremely loving father because he “cares” so much that he’ll go far out of his way to torment Amber. Linda didn’t stay up late because she was worried (if she had there would have been are “Are you okay?”) she stayed up for purpose of scaring and blackmailing Sal, Linda had already taken the money from Sal’s room by the time she got home which means Linda was planning to do this regardless of why Sal was late.
Abusers must “care” or they wouldn’t bother attacking the same person again and again, that doesn’t mean their “care” is a good thing.
@ Rian – That’s a wonderful point about how she already had the box. If Sal was late because, I dunno, her friend had a massive asthma attack and she didn’t want to leave them alone, Linda’d still have had the box out in the open, prompting a huge fight at the very least when Sal realized she took it from her room.
She doesn’t see it as hurting her, she sees it as helping her. Maybe she’s wrong. But sometimes you really DO have to hurt someone to help them, if they refuse to help themselves. So it’s hard to argue with the principle, even if in this case it is wrong.
Toedad pulled a gun on Becky because he “loved” her so much. He saw it as helping her. He TOLD her he was saving her and that she would see that one day, the same way Linda is telling Sal she won’t hate her forever. So, because Linda’s too much of a prissy piss-party to wave a gun around, she’s not abusive?
The actions are different, but both are abusive actions ‘done out of love’ and the ‘done out of love’ excuse does not justify it nor excuse it (at least to my mind).
By your logic, Toedad was justified in trying to kidnap Becky to force her to be straight.
By your logic, it’s okay that Naomi screams at Ethan to not be gay.
By your logic, Clint’s behavior to Ruth is excuseable.
You are blissfully unaware of how abusers work. You might want to wise up, because if you think Linda has Sal’s best interests in mind, you are a dream come true for an abuser.
You are mistaken. My logic was never intended to justify the behavior, merely to provide some basis for why it would seem justified to Linda. Which I can understand, albeit not endorse.
Irredentist, it is all a question of scale. It is still abuse it is just lower on the scale and smaller. That makes it easier to justify but it doesn’t make it less abusive. That’s why “done out of love” can’t excuse abuse and why emotional and mental abusers are so hard to spot.
I’m hoping this means that you haven’t had very much experience with this in your life, so that I can be happy for you. Because the alternative is that we are unmasking something in your life and things might be getting really hard for you right now because you might realize that someone in your life is being abused or was…. I truly hope that is not the case.
But the issue with that is that the money is not Linda’s. It’s not her call what is done with that money, as Sal earned it on her own. Exerting control over the possessions of other is shitty and a sign of the sort of toxic parenting that needs to be done away with.
You might make the argument that the money was donated under the assumption that it would be used for a specific purpose, and that not using it that way is a moral violation. I would agree with this. But from Linda’s perspective, why shouldn’t it be used on Sal instead? She obviously doesn’t care about Marcie. I don’t agree with this perspective, but I understand it.
It highlights a deeper problem, as Linda only cares about her own selfish viewpoint. If she genuinely cared about her daughter she would listen to her. As it stands, Linda is in the same camp as parents who send their kids away to “get fixed” because they aren’t happy with how they turned out. In summary: fuck Linda.
I think that’s a journey that all parents take at some point or other, to decide when to just let your child be them. Some find it more difficult than others. I had a controlling parent. She was like Linda in some ways, but I still love her.
It seems to me that what you’re saying is that Linda’s actions, regardless of whether they were right or wrong, are taken because she loves Sal. This may be true, but they are nevertheless not okay. It is wrong to treat your child, or anyone, the way Linda is treating Sal. Whether Linda loves Sal or not–and I think she probably does, somewhere in her selfish, arrogant, and cruel heart–is not relevant to the question of whether what she’s doing is acceptable. It is not.
Sadly, under the law, it is Linda’s. Children aren’t granted the right in the United States to own property. Anything that a minor has technically belongs to their parents. Sometimes this can be a good thing: for instance parents confiscating money earned by their children to prevent them from buying drugs. In Linda’s mind, she is preventing her daughter from spending her money foolishly in a way that she will regret later. Doesn’t make her any less crappy of a person, but it’s an action that is her right as Sal’s mother and legal guardian.
Children are complicated. Exercising some control over a child’s finances, even a young teen’s, is reasonable and necessary. Even if they’ve earned it themselves.
Taking away money they’re saving for a good cause and using it to extort control over their social lives is an abuse of that reasonable authority.
You approve of stealing from a 13 year old? It doesn’t fucking matter what it was used for she stole from a fucking 13 year old SEVEN HUNDRED DOLLARS. AT THIRTEEN. Linda is the sole reason Sal robbed a store no doubt
How exactly does the money not belong to Sal? What in this strip or any other gives you the idea that the money isn’t hers and somehow belongs to Linda instead?
I mean, in my country, they can’t either but I’ve had my own savings since I was 8. For many years, most of that money I didn’t even earn it myself! It had been gifted to me either on birthdays or for Christmas by distant relatives and grandparents. And in spite of that, nobody ever touched that money or even thought of touching it because my parents aren’t abusive jerks. They understood it belonged to me to do as I pleased with it even if, by law, it didn’t.
It’s stealing. It’s immoral. This is abuse, specifically financial abuse, and it doesn’t matter if Sal is 13 and legally can’t actually own anything. It doesn’t matter what Linda’s intentions are. It doesn’t matter what she thinks>/i> she’s doing by pulling this shit. It’s an abusive tactic all the same.
I fail to see how that distinction is relevant at all. In fact, doesn’t it make it worse, that Linda knows that Sal wasn’t even planning to spend that money on herself but to use to pay her friend’s surgery?
I’m sorry, I didn’t realize the law was the sole arbiter on what was moral. Just because she can’t legally be charged with stealing doesn’t mean it isn’t.
Those laws suck, and are more a product of our terrible history than anything else.
Like, sure, kids shouldn’t be able to sue their parents for reasonable punishments, but I can’t think of a reason 700 dollars raised for a friend in need being taken should ever be legal.
Unless you can give a citation to the law(s) that says children have no property rights, I’m going to say you’re wrong.
Every law I know of that says children cannot own property means real estat, *land*.
In fact, imma go out on a limb and just say you’re wrong. Minor children have rights of inheritance and they can earn money. That belongs to the child, even if parents have some rights to control it. A child can own a savings account, and although there is (usually) a requirement that an adult be “custodian” that adult does not have to be a parent. If Sal had gone to a grandparent/aunt/uncle for help putting the $700 into a savings a count, Linda and Charles would not have been able to touch it. Even if the grandparent/aunt/uncle is able to control the account, it’s still Sal’s money.
Parents get away with taking away their children’s belongings mostly because no one is calling the police and getting the district attorney to prosecute. Yes, parents can control/remove/withhold things/money belonging to the child if they believe it’s in the child’s interest, but it still belongs to the child. The law tends to assume the parent is justified, and usually the value of the object in question doesn’t rise to the level that someone will bring in the law, but if Linda never gives that money back to Sal, she *stole* it.
Actually, it’s a little more complicated. I looked it up, and it turns out that while Sal can in fact own her own money, her parents are still allowed to dictate how and when it is spent, and thus Linda is not breaking any laws by confiscating it, assuming that she uses it for the benefit of Sal.
And benefit has a pretty broad definition here. Blowing it at the track wouldn’t be, but spending it on things she’d otherwise have been providing to Sal anyway probably would be – food, clothes, housing etc.
I wonder if it being a fundraiser makes any difference? I mean, it would if it was a formal school fundraiser or something. If a kid raised $700 selling band cookies or something, the parent couldn’t just take that in trust for the kid, right? It’s already dedicated to a another purpose, it’s not really her money.
Is the GoFundMe money the same way? Is this the GoFundMe money at all? Or other money Sal’s managed to accumulate? Would she even be able to get at the GoFundMe money in cash without a bank account or something?
Actually, the crowdfunding campaign means some of that money was Marcies. I don’t believe a parent is allowed to steal SOMEONE ELSE’S kids money. Your argument is specious.
I’m not sure if the money in the crowdfunding campaign is the money in the shoebox, but regardless, the money was earmarked for Marcie which makes it very very shitty.
That’s pretty much exactly what I said, so thank you for agreeing.
We can say that Linda hasn’t stolen the money YET. It depends on what Linda does with it.
But ultimately whether a parent’s taking a child’s money is theft or exercise of parental control is a legal determination, and since these matters rarely ever end up in a court of law, that question is never answered in all but an infinitesimal number of cases.
It annoys the shit out of me when people make grand statements about the law when they don’t know what the hell they’re talking about.
First of all legally that money is Sal’s not her mother’s. A parent does not automatically own everything a child owns. Its tough to enforce but if there is a case its I earned $700 myself and my mom decided to take it from me is one of the best. Also I feel like what your working under the assumption that children are basically slaves anyways when you assume children don’t have their own property rights.
Second of all if you want to do anything like spending money a child makes on what you think is best for the child this is worst way to go about it. What you do in that situation is your up front about either having to put away so much money before they can have any to spend or discuss what the your future tax is going to be before they earn the money.
Linda is punishing Sal for saving money instead of buying candybars by deciding to spend it on something she was going to buy Sal anyways.
Third unless she’s literally trying to punish Sal for trying to be a good person this is not a good punishment. You take away toys kids fight over or use to misbehave. Or you ground them and don’t let them have access to their toys but its still there’s.
Nobody else seems to be saying it, and if Willis would rather I didn’t, sorry in advance, but:
You know what, Irredentist? Fuck you very much.
Just… Bad parenting is bad parenting, and we have more than enough evidence that this is bad parenting, so stop trying to give Linda credit for things she hasn’t done.
Absolutely. If that’s love, it comes at much too high a cost. (Remember How Joyce has had actual trauma flashbacks to Toedad’s ‘I will die for you’ and Carol saying the same is a huge warning sign? Yeah. If your version of love justifies hurting your kid like this, I don’t care what you feel, you are still a terrible parent.)
Please read up on the signs of abuse, and especially emotionally manipulation because even with all the anecdotal experiences on this page, you do not seem to be Getting It.
A child saves money to help pay for surgery to repair damage to another child’s vocal chords, and you think it’s “understandable” to take the money? Whoa.
Reading with Irredentist’s original comment from Linda’s point of view, it makes complete sense. Linda considers herself a good mother doing what is best for Sal, her trouble child. She probably did spend the money on something she thought would help Sal. That is how she knows Sal will not hate her forever. Sal will realize how great a mother she has been tonight and how difficult this was for Linda to do. Linda loves Sal. She even told Sal that just to be sure Sal understands.
I think Linda truly believes this.
None of this actually makes Linda a good parent, person, or anything less than a monster. But no one sees one’s self as a monster.
We don’t know that Linda considers herself a good mother. She no doubt feels she’s justified in what she’s doing, but I can’t think of anything she’s said or done that indicates she thinks she’s doing this for Sal’s sake.
Like many abusive parents, she seems to consider her children to be extensions of herself and whether something is “good” or “bad” for her children depends on how it would reflect on her.
Of course, her motivation doesn’t truly matter. Intent is not magic. Whether she’s acting out of misguided “love” or pure narcissism, the impact on Sal is the same.
This is hitting uncomfortably close to home for me (the money aspect anyway) and the only advice I could think of giving Sal is to button it up, go to college and, once you graduate, cut your family out of your life for good
same on the it hitting close to home. But this kind of advice for a 13 year old, while genuinely good and realistic, might be waaaaay too long of a wait, not to mention Marcie’s situation. I can see why she snapped and went robbing stores :/ Here’s hoping we see Sal taking this kind of advice, and find peace with cutting our her family later in the comic
Wait, you just said something very interesting. We never found out why Sal tried to rob a convenience store. Was she just rebelling, or was she stealing money for Marcie’s surgery?
Narrative wise, I think it’s building up to show us why Sal robbed the store (unless plot twist). I honestly can see if Sal robbed the store both out of desperation to fund Marcie’s surgery, and as an act of rebelling towards Linda that she would help her friend no matter what Linda said.
We’re finding out now why she robbed the convenience store! This flashback sequence started after she connected Ethan to the robbery. Obviously she robbed it because of *these events*.
And yeah, I want the kids the hell away from Linda forever, and for Sal to have opened a bank account Linda didn’t have access to the moment she turned eighteen with money she had saved that Linda didn’t know about. This is ‘find your documentation, walk out, and hit the gas the moment you’re out of sight’ territory.
It’s funny, I hated Toedad and Blaine, I still do with a passion, but this is the first time a strip has actually given me a physical reaction. It’s this surge of nauseated anger and sadness, maybe because it feels familiar to experiences I’ve had. I hate Linda because everyone KNOWS that Toedad and Blaine are bad, but Linda is still seen as “normal, nice mom!” by the majority of the cast. I also really want to protect Sal because she really looks so injured and small and her expression makes me want to cry. 🙁
Certain things– neglecting your kid to the point where they go without food or medicine, physical violence, sexual abuse– pretty much everyone agrees these acts are cruel and abusive. Now, survivors of these kinds of abuse may still face disbelief because it is hidden. But, the actions are largely called abusive and known to be un-loving.
But with narcissistic abuse and psychological abuse, so many people think it’s bad, but not abuse. For some, it is because they were themselves abused; this kind of thing was normalized for them. For others, it is difficult to see why the action is so intensely serious, having been in non-abusive emotional conflicts with parents, and not understanding first hand how this crosses the line.
Constantly hearing that narcissistic abuse and psychological abuse is not genuinely abusive is a serious impediment to healing from this kind of abuse. I really want to protect Sal also.
I don’t want to be insensitive here but can you maybe not use the term ‘narcissistic abuse’ please? This is definitely emotional abuse and psychological abuse, but ‘narcissistic abuse’ is not a separate classification of types of abusive actions that wouldn’t fit under already existing categories and the usage of it worsens stigma for people with NPD and encourages armchair diagnosing people with a condition that can be ‘blamed’ for their cruelty.
I otherwise very much completely agree with you. Emotional, verbal and psychological abuse can have devastating effects on people, and it is awful that because the scars of it aren’t visible, people don’t always take it as seriously as they do other types of harm.
Narcissistic abuse is very different than just emotional abuse. It is it’s own subtype of emotional abuse with very specific characteristics. Also, most people with NPD don’t believe they have a problem and will never seek treatment because they think they’re right. They don’t care if anyone doesn’t like them on an individual level because they can just slander them until no one believes them.
There was plenty of support for Toedad, right up until the gun came out. And a little bit afterwards.
Less for Blaine.
Plenty of people insisting that Clint was just looking out for Ruth.
We’re just getting to the point where we finally see how bad Linda is and it can’t be denied anymore.
I should add right now that I’m being facetious and this is directed at those that, even with this strip, will still attempt to defend Linda. I really, really hope none of those people actually exist (but I haven’t read through all the comments yet).
*Internet support gestures* Yeah the rest of this arc is going to be rough. We’re probably not through the flashbacks and I do not want to see what the aftermath of the robberies will be like.
Linda is now joining the Physically Abusive Three on the list of parents I actually want retroactively dead, timeline be damned.
I don’t want her dead, I just want her to fuck off. But you’re right, we’re nowhere near done yet. The super long flashback is supposed to be about two weeks and we’re just finishing the first.
Other parents are worse (Blaine, Ross) but I think I hate the Walkertons the most for a couple reasons – A) The shallow reason, Sal’s my favourite. B) Unlike Blaine and Ross, there’s no chance these two are ending up in jail and I hate it. I hate that so much of society will bend over backwards to excuse and ignore emotional abuse and, because of how hard it would be to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (which is an important standard, but it does often leave victims of harder to prove injustices like rape, abuse, etc. in a bad way) they are never ever going to face societal consequences.
That’s a lot of money for a thirteen year old to have on hand. Given she’s mixed race, if cops found it, their first assumption would be she was running drugs.
A GOOD parent would help her set up a bank account to keep it safe – probably requiring a parental co-signature to make a withdrawal, but actually it is clear that in Sal’s case this precaution is unnecessary. Certainly it would not be good if Walky (David) found the money. But this confiscation, with the implication that she doesn’t get it back until she has given up on Marcie, is quite wrong.
The problem with that is that a good parent would have been unlikely to find the money in the first place. Seems like she had to go on a pretty extensive snoop through Sal’s personal things to get her hands on it.
That’s a lot of money for a thirteen year old to have on hand. Given she’s mixed race, if cops found it, their first assumption would be she was running drugs.
Why would the cops find it? It’s in her own home, in a wealthy neighborhood. There is no freaking way that Linda is letting the cops (or child services) into her home without a warrant.
Valid points:
1. It looks like Linda does, in fact, know where Sal keeps her stuff.
2. Sal is probably actually thirteen, and not immortal.
3. Even reaching like that I couldn’t get to three.
Linda’s evil guys, but don’t forget. Charles let it happen. He’s just as bad. And honestly? If Walky had stood up for Sal, Linda probably would have backed down. But nope.
Linda would not back down if Walky stood up to her and I’m tired of people acting like he can stop this. If he sided with Sal, it would only make Linda angrier and more likely to give Walky the same treatment. Again, he is a child here and also believes that his mother is in the right because that is what he is told. Now that he is older he realizes just how often his mother has screwed over Sal and treated her like trash, but until college he legitimately believes in his mother. Shoukd he think for himself and realize it sooner? Probably. But shitting on him for the actions of his parents is exactly what Linda is doing to Marcie, although she is doing it to a much larger degree and without Marcie’s parents actually doing anything wrong, other than possibly being in the country illegally(that we know of).
Linda’s love for Walky is entirely conditional on him being the “Good Son”, he knows it on some level. That’s why he’s so terrified of not doing well at school, that’s why he’s suprised to realize that he can still be loved when he’s failing math. If Walky stood up for Sal, walked away from his “Good Son” script, it won’t be like “Oh, the son I like is telling me I’m a Bad Mom I guess I should stop now.” it’s just gonna be “Oh Walky isn’t the Good Son anymore blah blah blah bad influance time to treat David the same way I treat Sally”. Sal got the short end of the stick between the Walkerton twins, I have no doubt of it, but when a parent is a Shitty-Ass Parent all the kids get fucked-up by that whatever they follow the script or not.
Walky is not a shit. He was also just a child, and the golden child. The “smart boy”. The “good boy”. Did you see how terrified he was when he started getting bad grades? That’s Linda’s doing. He’s as afraid of his mother as Sal is angry at her. And with good reason. Of course he’s not going to stand up to her. Of fucking course he’s going to try and curry favor with her as often and obnoxiously as possible. And it’s no fucking wonder he’s the “oblivious idiot” now, that’s been his coping mechanism all these years.
We have no data proving one way or another that Charles isn’t also being abused. Until we do have data, I’m going to give him a call he benefit of the doubt
That seems ridiculous. If Walky had tried to stand up, she’d have bulldozed him, because twelve year old Walky can’t win an angry shouting match with his own mom. Hell, I’m pretty sure that if his dad had tried to stand up to her, he’s ALSO have gotten bulldozed. Linda seems that type of person.
If I wasn’t currently awake and rocking my infant daughter to sleep, I think after reading that I’d just be awake and rocking.
“I love you so you can’t hate me, and my loving you and being your mother makes my every decision (to invade your privacy, to “confiscate” your savings, everything!) unambiguously and undeniably morally right” just isn’t how it works.
yeah, the “my children should love me unconditionally” logic is always the worst. They don’t have to, and we can only really just try to give them reason to love us, but manipulating only works for so long, spells don’t last forever – they either wear off or turn into curses.
I more mean how do we arrange it. Like, is there a twitter poll? A change.org petition? Doing the hokey-pokey on an altar of Mephisto while whistling the theme of Shadow the Hedgehog backwards until our feet bleed?
So, like with an advanced brain-to-machine interface, an IV drip, and some VR-esque rendering techniques. Plus, any visual concepts you can skim from the collective imagination of the internet. Simulating 4 separate locations plus the real world and correctly tethering a person’s consciousness to them without said person falling conscious would be a real trick.
I’ve been holding a secret hope in my heart of hearts that Blaine’s ultimate end will be on some pig farm or something that has an Understanding with the local mob about visitors late at night on the property and days the pigs are less hungry for no apparent reason.
It loses a lot of relevance with other bad parents, but so far I haven’t thought up one better.
I never wanted to curb stomp a comic character before. fuck Linda like hardcore man. What a scummy piece of human shit. I really want her to get hit by a bus
Anyone else getting really strong flashbacks to the scene where King Triton destroys Ariel’s grotto with his laser-trident? ‘Cause I’m getting *really* strong flashbacks to the scene where King Triton destroys Ariel’s grotto with his laser-trident.
It happened now and again in 80:s coming of age movies that a parent would destroy something important for the child right in front of them to demonstrate their power and how little the childs own choice matters. Most often, it was a catalyst for the child running away from home.
Funny enough, not a single of the movies that used this trope then praised the parents for their awesome parenting skill.
One of the reasons Ariel is my favorite Disney princess (and, I feel, one of the most feminist), is how much her story reads as a metaphor for escaping a controlling / emotionally abusive or coercive family, and that choosing to take on a disability in order to be free can be empowering.
Ariel is incredibly brave. What she wants at the beginning of the film is so much more lovely than what her father wants for her. She, essentially, wants to make first contact with a culture she realizes her entire community misunderstands. She’s like an anthropologist who is both excited by the opportunity to learn something new and frustrated by her ignorance.
And even when she’s embarrassed because her ignorance is exposed (a dinglehopper is not for hair!) she recovers pretty quickly– because she want to learn more than she values being smart or right.
Her Dad thinks he knows her. She’s a beauty and a gifted singer, and that’s it. He refuses to try to understand her further than that. Worse, he wants to to fear what he fears.
So when she realizes that pursuing a different destiny means altering her body? And then she chooses to change, and her changed self is more liberating and more true than the way she was born? Amazing.
And I mean, so she falls in love with a guy in three days. So what; that makes her automatically un-feminist?
That trident laser to destroy all the human objects was still yikes but I don’t think Triton was abusive per se. Flawed yes as he was stubborn, not really listening, and was unwilling to accept any kind of argument that the human world was anything other than ‘dangerous’. But he also came to accept Ariel’s choices later on and that he was wrong to be so restrictive.
I do really like your interpretation though because I also love Ariel. Ariel is great.
That was absolutely an abusive moment, even if Triton wasn’t otherwise abusive. Destroying the personal property of your children in order to control them is abuse. It’s emotional abuse.
It’s like parents destroying iPads and phones they’ve given to their children because they don’t like the amount of screentime. There are better, healthier ways to stop that, but taking that iPad and smashing it on the ground is emotionally manipulative and horrible.
I think its more like a parent destroying the rock and roll CD’s their kid collected behind their back because they don’t approve of their kid participating in the rock and roll culture.
so anyway my dog is resting on the couch next to me in a little sweater and he just did a big stretch that pushed out a little toot.
just in case anyone needed a silly dog story for any reason.
Holy fucking shit, how the fuck do you do something so terrible that it makes goddamned Blaine of all people look less bad by comparison? Like, we all knew Linda was not a great person but this is some next level shit. I don’t think I’ve wanted to reach through my monitor and punch a character this bad since Toedad kidnapped Becky.
I think this is one of the few times we have a mom join the roster of shit dads.
Like, I think Ethan’s mom is one of them. But, like, both of them manifest it in a very defferent way. Like, think of the IRONY of confiscating the money your kid is saving for their friend’s surgery. Repeat that to yourself, and realize how fucked up that sounds.
But Ethan’s mom and Linda, their fucked up/asshole parents in a much subtler way than Blaine and toe dad. But, like, still so so so fucked up. It makes something so fucked like this seem normal. Linda is the REASON Sal can’t have healthy relationships.
And everything Sal fails to be, Walky is supposed to be. No WONDER he channels that into “fuck whit” isms. He does get “extra care” because she cares more, but only because Sal stands up to Linda.
The specifics are so different, but I knew I always really connected with Walky on a weird level. This seems waaaaaay to familiar. At least in some respects. Fuck.
Yeah, it’s those two and Carol (Joyce’s mom, who already disowned Jordan and we know Jocelyne knows she’s next) in the worst moms for me, and this moment may pull Linda in the lead for now.
I fully expect Carol to do something just this terrible or worse eventually (or reveal she already did stuff like this when Jordan left,) but that coldness and utter disregard for Sal is just awful. (I have no expectations Ethan’s mom will accept him and I’m sure she’ll only get worse and Ethan cutting ties would be great… but damn. Damn. His parents flat out told him to have sex he didn’t damn want, his dad told him it would suck, and this is still DAMN.)
Oh, I also include the Wilcox parents in this awful category. Everything about early Danny makes sense when you realize they killed his self esteem years ago.
Appropriate gestures of support if needed. I can’t scroll this text box up.
Not sure about legally (that would be disinherited anyway), but given they never talk about him except in ways like ‘Jordan is… Jordan’ and how they don’t want to repeat what happened with him? I think by that point it makes little difference. There doesn’t appear to be any expectation of reconciling, and even if that was Jordan’s call they still consider him a lost cause in turn so by this point it seems mutual. That said we have so little information about Jordan in general that everything with him is extrapolation.
(And the fact that Joyce has no idea about him is another piece of evidence to me. Maybe she was too young to know anything, but even now it seems like that information is kept tight.)
@Irredentist: Linda may indeed think she is acting in her daughter’s best interests, but she seems to lack the insight to recognise that she is in fact acting in her own best interest (not to mention that her perception of that is pretty skewed).
As an aside, I haven’t seen a Damn You Willis so far. Everyone is blaming Linda, not the playwright. I think many of us have experience with parents using their authority in ways which frustrated us as children. This is a particularly egregious example, but it is realistic, and it has brought up painful memories.
it’s always way worse because it gets so ingrained you don’t even know where your problems come from when you get older. You forget the event but not in the ways that matter.
This was hard to read. My grandma (my stand in mom) does this all the time. People like this… they are so horrible. The act of shrouding toxicity and abuse in the guise of love is so wrong. The worst part is that you know what they are doing, but it’s hard to call it out. After all, “it’s love”. It takes all the power away from your feelings on the abuse and throws it back at you. Like you are the one that’s bad and it takes your worth from you.
Oh wow flashback to my mom throwing a comic book in the trash because she didn’t like me reading it. And other times also confiscating regular novels. Because I was reading so much.
And then there’s also the sense of ‘your saved up money is also my money, and I don’t really need to ask explicit permission to use it, since it’s for religious donation, which is obviously a common priority for everyone in this family’.
Same for the books. I have many torn up or water stained/warped books (there’s a moldy one in a bag from the one time I couldn’t save a library book) from all the times I “wasn’t spending my time on things I should spend it on”, even though letting me read would’ve taught me more time and anxiety management than micromanaging me. I could tape the books back together, but at this point the damage is so far done that fixing them seems pointless.
I never actually thought someone would mention something that I could relate to so well. Parents confiscating books for ‘reading too much’? So familiar. Luckily, they gave up first, though it never got as far as books being thrown away. Then again, I never read any actual comic books.
The sad part is that, looking back, I feel like I didn’t read enough. (I mean books did compete with video-games after all.)
Sometimes I think updates like this exist to make me feel better about my own parents. (paranoid fundie weirdo and philandering manbaby control freak, respectively)
Also, side note, I don’t really hate Walky so much as I hate that I can see myself in him. I wish I’d stood up to my parents more, even if now they’ve let up more, because my problems still exist and are not addressed and I still think they benefit more than harm even though I know it’s not true, and his fears in the present situation outside of this flashback are fears I have still, even after 4 years. I hate Linda both because she is an actual terrible person, and because she’s created children with these complexes I identify with (although, Willis, we all know the person who created all of this is none of these characters)
It never ceases to amaze me how Linda can be totally wrong an completely right all at the same times. Sal’s relationship with Marcie did start to take on a very unhealthy cast to it along the way but Linda’s reasons for saying this were all entirely wrong. Additionally, basically not letting her use her money on the good cause for which she had collected it is amazingly cruel and not just towards Sal. It is symptomatic of the Walkerton parents’ tendency to make decisions about whether some people are ‘worthy’ of kindness.
I also think it’s ironic that the next serious friendship that Sal creates seems to inevitably leading her into the life of a costumed vigilante!
A big chunk of Sal and Marcie’s latest problems come back around to Linda, though. Every authority figure treats her like crap and her friends and any romantic relationships have not been reliable (either getting annoyed when she wasn’t what they wanted her to be, trying to fix her, or treating her like some total ‘bad girl’ or ‘super cool’ archetype without actually caring about her until they moved on, or being ‘the worst damn people’) which made Marcie stick out as the only one she could trust to be vulnerable with. This is a huge reason why she’s so clingy with Marcie.
The other big reasons are Sal and Malaya don’t get along and Sal broke her no fighting promise, but Linda didn’t have anything to do with either of those (except in so much as she contributed to Sal being so clingy with Marcie because of the aforementioned problems with people, which helped fuel her jealousy towards Malaya). Sal pretty much fucked up those two on her own.
Linda is right ONLY in that Sal needs to make other friends. It’s just that those other friends should be in addition to Marcie, rather than replacing her.
Their relationship itself was totally healthy. It’s Sal’s unwillingness to try to find ANY other friends that was unhealthy and putting on strain on her friendship with Marcie, and Sal was doing that all to herself. Marcie was actively discouraging that over-dependence and encouraging her to make new friends.
Well Linda hasn’t said “I am just following orders” so she’s not beyond redemption yet, if she even capable to admitting her problem. I am interested to see her reaction when she sees police and news crews on her lawn when she wakes up. Another thing in the back of my mind that bothers me is how Sal got her bike.
That’s Sayid. He’s appeared in a total of 4 strips plus at least one Willis-porn. His contributions to the story have been to loan Amazi-Girl a skateboard to chase down Toedad and to point out that Becky was violating health codes by handling Joyce’s sausage bare-handed.
Like many side characters, I assume Sayid is having a pretty good semester but is sick of his non-IU circle checking in because a gunman on campus?! A high-speed car chase?! A rapist attacked two freshmen with a knife and is hospitalized?!
Move-in week my freshman year of college started with the early students getting hit with the DC earthquake and ended with the parents entering the ‘Letting Go’ session that afternoon while we were getting orientation and being told to please take their children home because a hurricane was coming. The valedictorian made a point of talking about how nature itself was against us four years later. I can only imagine what THEIR commencement speech will be like.
I assume that Sayyid, like the other side characters, is caught up in his own intense personal drama, including just as many evil parents, action sequences and other hijinks as our main characters.
(Except for Forest Quad. Nothing ever happens in Forest Quad.)
Hey, he had no problem with AG ‘deputizing’ his skateboard, so clearly he’s seen his fair share of ridiculous drama-type stuff.
(I mean yeah he’d just seen that Ross was a dangerous fuckwit but the point is I like this headcanon)
Here’s my unpopular defense of Linda’s actions in this flashback:
First, let me say that this is a defense of THIS action. Linda has proven with her own words that this is not a single event, that Linda’s own long term judgement is horrible and she is a Bad Parent. Top Five in the comic, because Clint doesn’t seem racist or sexist. But I digress.
Linda is an adult person. In Linda’s mind, she can make Good Choices, and knows what choices lead to the Carefreem Successful, Happy Future(tm) for her daughter and which will not. Linda also is a human being, who worries that people will see that Sal keeps making risky choices, and not blame the 13 year old girl, but will blame Sal’s mother: Linda.
To Linda, this is the same sort of parental problem like “My daughter likes to eat Laundry/Dishwasher Soap Pods, so I will put those items on a high shelf out of my daughter’s reach, because she does not understand that they are not candy, and that eating them is bad.”
In Linda’s mind, Sal is making Bad Choices. She is choosing to spend time with people who, even if it isn’t their fault, present a high risk to Sal. Regardless of the Good Values system that Sal has been taught, she keeps making the Wrong Choice in order to keep herself from situations that risk her Happy Carefree Adult Life ™. Therefore, Linda has to limit Sal’s choices, or take them away entirely. If Sal is not capable of making the Right Choice, then she can’t be allowed choices.
Now, if you’re not exploded by rage at this point, let that steam loose. Linda SHOULD have taken Sal to the bank to open a savings account, and learn financial literacy. Linda could have let Sal learn the actual medical facts about Marcie’s chances of speaking again, and what an appropriate level of support between Marcie and Sal should be. Charles and Linda should have both talked to Sal about the dangers in the world for a thirteen year old girl out late and her parents don’t know where she is, and the men and boys who will see her as prey. Charles and Linda should have explained that its not Marcie’s parents’ skin color and immigration status that makes them Bad Adults, its other behaviors that put Marcie at risk (if there are any, which we haven’t seen to be the case)
Instead, Linda does none of these things, because she is a Terrible Parent. There is no such thing as a Carefree Happy Adult Life ™, and Linda should know this because she is not living one herself, nor is anyone else. She spoils David because he infantilizes himself, and punishes Sal for even seeking adult responsibility.
But taking away your kid’s choices because they keep making irresponsible choices is both dis-empowering and sometimes The Right Thing To Do as a responsible parent.
Except that Sal isn’t making an irresponsible choice. She’s making an incredibly responsible choice by setting up a gofundme and raising money to help Marcie.
You’re defending Linda’s actions under the logic that she’s trying to do the Right Thing as a responsible parent, but that logic is fundamentally flawed. She’s not. She’s really, genuinely not. She is not concerned about Sal in any way that does not reflect upon her negatively. This is proven throughout the comic, and even just last strip where Linda says Sal’s actions are making the Walkertons look like “bad parents”. It’s all about image- Linda’s image.
You’re throwing out things that Linda and Charles should have done that, frankly, have little to no basis in their personalities or beliefs as shown thus far, and allowing them much more charity than ought to be given.
And like.. not going to lie, it’s a little unnerving to have put in a point for Linda to justify her racist beliefs by “[explaining] that its not Marcie’s parents’ skin color and immigration status that makes them Bad Adults, its other behaviors that put Marcie at risk (if there are any, which we haven’t seen to be the case)”. You’re saying that these are all things that the Walkertons should have done and? Sorry but coming up with reasons why they’re not racist because of x reason is bs.
I’m just genuinely not sure what your point is because it’s blatantly flawed. Several other parents have done things because they thought it was the Right Thing to do. Hint: It wasn’t. Your defense of Linda being that she thought she was doing the Right Thing doesn’t mean anything when people use that all the time to excuse abusive actions. Linda is being abusive in this moment. It doesn’t matter that she thought she was in the right. That doesn’t change anything.
I think a large level of how immoral you may think Linda’s actions are depends on whether you think any of the money Sal has raised belongs to Sal or whether it’s already Marcie’s/the charity. Linda taking money from a child is abusive but 250 of this was donated by other people for a disadvantaged child’s care.
Linda acts like she’s confiscating Walky’s Xbox fund.
It’s the part where Linda makes an ultimatum with the money that gets me. If your kid genuinely can’t be trusted with money anymore due to Issues (undercut by Sal raising that money through apparently legal sources at age thirteen, which is truly impressive,) you don’t really give them a chance to change your mind (that in this case seems disingenuous and is incredibly nasty.)
If those issues are drugs or other addiction, you get the kid outside help because the current status quo is clearly not working.
If the kid is a genuine threat to themself or others, you take emergency actions.
All of these are sequences that can override the child’s consent, but a key part of them is that if you’re getting to that point you pretty much have to change the whole setting and not just lay down Parental Authority because when you reach that point, Parental Authority with no other changes is a recipe for failure. (Even if they stay living in the household, that’s still a ‘close supervision, possibly hide certain common household objects, and intensive action’ situation.)
Linda’s not just hiding the Tide Pods, she’s telling Sal she’s only allowed to wear certain clothes and access to the laundry room will resume after she accepts this fact. The action is unreasonable in itself, but the demand with it makes it clear what the intention is. It’s not about Sal’s actions, it’s about keeping Sal controlled.
And the action itself – taking money meant for a child’s medical bills – is doubly terrible because Marcie is in fact a child who does in fact need medical care, and Linda saying ‘nope, raising money for her isn’t good enough for me’ says Marcie is unworthy of basic human decency.
(Even in some hypothetical scenario where Marcie’s household or where they were hanging out was known to be unsafe, Marcie herself is perfectly nice and deserving of care and the right thing to do would be to establish a safer environment for them to play in. We have never met the Diazes. We still have no idea what caused Marcie’s accident except Sal’s unreliable amounts of guilt, and the first fight we see Sal in was at Sal’s elementary school. And Linda decided Marcie was no good at age five for climbing on top of a piece of playground equipment – actual concern would be trying to get HER down as well and asking where her parents were, not just cursing at her five-year-old and making a bunch of assumptions – and existing. Maybe the fact that Marcie was clearly speaking Spanish in that exchange. Nothing could be extrapolated from that sequence except that Marcie’s supervising parent had an attention slip the same way Linda clearly had, but Linda immediately reacts with vitriol. This can’t be compared to the Genuine Bad Influence Kid who starts fires or the drug dealer who’s only one of an established bad social group, because that assumes a level of good faith that we know for a fact is absent. And even then, if the tiny arsonist got seriously injured and your kid raised a ton of money to help them, the decent thing to do would be give them the money but say ‘I really, REALLY don’t want you hanging out with this kid who sets fires under *circumstances in which they have set fires* because we know it’s dangerous.’ And then either make the kid understand how dangerous things are or try to allow limited exposure in safe circumstances for a slow fade. If they can’t keep the rules they don’t get to see kid, and if they do then you’re keeping an eye on things and know kid is not playing with Tiny Arsonist and balloons filled with gasoline. Nothing about how Linda is doing this is decent or reasonable. If she had an actually good reason why Marcie wasn’t safe to be around, she would have brought it up instead of the racist associations shit.)
What a fucking asshole. And I bet she thinks it’s all Marcie’s fault that Sal robbed a convenience store
Willis, I hope there is a point where Linda gets punched in the face. Hard. I can’t recall if there was already a moment but if there was, she needs it again
I’ve read most of these comments so far, with a brief aside to check the real-world news.
Interesting how a few people actually defend Linda. Just goes to show, there are sick cruel wastes of oxygen everywhere.
Interesting how no one is talking about the fact that Trump is defending family separation at the border. That is some real-world abuse. I wish I knew even one thing I could do about it. The best I can do right now is try to get other people aware of it too. You hate abuse of children? Hate Trump. Find some way to destroy what he is doing.
That look on Sal’s face in the last panel? Picture that look on the faces of a thousand children ripped away from their parents. Real, living children. Some of whom are told that their parents don’t love them anymore. Some of whom are put up for adoption by our government. Some of whom are injected with psychoactive drugs.
There are a few in this comment section who are already taking action to help children in need. There are some who don’t have the emotional resources to do more right now. For the rest – if you are not active, please look for a way to get active.
There’s a lot of energy here tonight. Let’s see if we can actually do something with it.
The fact that nobody is talking about it here doesn’t mean nobody here is talking about it. This place is for discussing the comic, I discuss the foreign and domestic policy disasters of America other places unless a strip directly relates to them. Trust me, I have the capacity to hate both Linda and the braying orange jackass. So stop tone policing the discussion of Linda’s child abuse.
People ARE talking about it, just not here. This is a comment section for the comic, not for IRL politics. That gets discussed elsewhere. I see stuff about it at least every other day on tumblr. They’ve been talking about it for ages now- at least a few months. It’s not new.
(To be clear, I’m not trying to be snarky or critical by showing a google search. Just trying to offer it as a general lifehack for where to go when you don’t know where to go.)
Everyone else, I am not tone policing anything. I am not saying you are wrong for focusing on the comic here. Sorry if i sounded that way. Don’t tone police me either. Lots of people bring their real world stuff to this comment section. If you don’t like what I’m saying, why does it bother you?
Bruh. How can you look at what you wrote and not see how critical it comes across? Whatever your intentions, what you said comes across as very judgmental that people are talking about a comic (on the page dedicated TO the comic) instead of IRL politics.
When people bring IRL stuff to the comic, it usually relates to the topic OF the comic. For example, there are people here talking about their own abusive parents. Or when sexual assault is mentioned, people will talk about that. Or transphobia. The abduction of children isn’t the topic of this comic, so of course no one’s going to talk about it.
You are not being tone policed here. This is, simply put, not the most appropriate avenue to talk about this topic, as it has 0 connection with the comic itself. And whether you intended to or not (and its reading like the former), you used emotionally manipulative phrasing and imagery in your posts.
“Interesting how no one is talking about Trump defending family separation at the border” because its not relevant to the topic of the strip and isn’t the right platform for that.
“That look on Sal’s face in the last panel? Picture that look on the faces of a thousand children ripped away from their parents. Real, living children.” Full on you are being manipulative here and guilty tripping commenters focusing on the strip’s content and not the real world events that are happening right now.
These conversations are happening elsewhere, but just not here. Because the comment section of a webcomic is not the most appropriate platform to have this conversation. And personally, out of respect for Willis and his work, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask that discussion at least stay tangentially related to the comic whose site we are on.
I mean, occasionally a bit of unrelated news or political info gets shared in the comments section, but you’re right, it’s unfair to try to shame people for not having brought it up.
We totally are outraged and capable of focusing on multiple things at once. The racial subtext of Linda’s treatment of Marcie is clear and related, but the institutionalized abuse is so far beyond the scope of this one-on-one parent-on-child abuse it isn’t really comparable the same way talking about conversion therapy was relevant in the Toedad stuff.
By all means, be outraged about it. We should be. But in this case it’s really apples to giant carnivorous plant, which is why I think it hasn’t come up yet and why people are reacting like it’s a derail here. The detainment policy is relevant because Linda’s attitude towards Marcie is how they’re justifying the shit, not because both it and this strip depict abuse of children. This is intensely personal; what’s going on with family separation is horrifying because it’s inherently impersonal.
And while we’re at it, can we take a look at how dismissive and patronizing that “You’re thirteen. No, you won’t.” is?
First you basically steal money your daughter has worked her ass off for *to help someone else* and then you insult her by dismissing her rage like she’s a toddler who’s mad because they wanted grape jelly, not strawberry.
I’m not saying I want Linda to die in a fire, but I won’t shed any tears if she does.
And you know what? If my three year old was screaming because I gave them the wrong jelly or because they wanted the green cup instead of the red cup (or whatever) and swearing that they hated me forever – I might roll my eyes and think “No, you won’t” in my head, but I’d work darn hard not to say it aloud. It never helps.
My toddler is very theatrical. If I get him the “wrong” item, he will pretend to die by throwing himself on the floor and start rolling around saying “ow”. Generally, the conversation is about expressing ones self constructively vs his feelings are Not Real or Lesser. A big part of this, is how dismissive my parents were. If I expressed anything with feelings, it was Not Real because I was emotionally compromised. To them, feelings clouding my reasoning vs being caused by understanding. I have zero problem my child is angry and frustrated with misunderstandings and wanting to exert control over choices while he is working out his language center. I do have a problem with him expressing himself in such a way it hinders a solution (him trying to become part fish while “dying”.
This is several level of awful. Like, it’s almost cartoonish? I swear I don’t want to be disrespectful, but it simply does not seems realistic to me to do something like that? Anyone can partake case that might be close to it (though I hope none like that actually exist).
LeslieBean4Shizzle in reply to wheelpath’s chain near the top, has stated something similar has in fact happened to them at least in terms of cash volume.
And honestly… I’m not surprised. I’ve read tips from abused people to abused kids and it includes more cartoonish sounding things like parents using literal trip wires. Sometimes cartoons. Are not unrealistic in the depths of evil some people are willing to go to.
This is actually really common as a way for parents to establish control. Not usually over medical bill money, but often over entirely benign things.
Or parents who help themselves to their children’s savings as a “stop gap” that they will surely pay back! Which should only be acceptable if you are making the choice between your family having food/shelter moving forward, or not. And even in that dire situation, should be explained and apologized for, not taken as a “right.”
My dad used to get me birthday gifts for himself. Surprise you wanted a camera! But it’s really expensive, so it’s only 2/5 yours and you don’t get to use it because that might ruin my 3/5 use. I wasn’t allowed to have emotions, because if I expressed my opinions while emotional, they were obviously wrong and compromised vs my feelings coming about from understanding of a horrible situation. My parents refuse to remember certain dental procedures I had, because my mouth couldn’t have been that bad since they took care of me. Even though I maintained my own dental appointments in my own. I was studying for a calculus test at school and my mom, on speaker phone in front of the majority of my classmates accused me of hanging out with the wrong crowd and lying where I was so I could have sex. Why? Because my mom didn’t ever get to know my friends, so I must have made the wrong choices. I was sent to private highshool and the money that was supposed to go to college went to it so they could force me to get new friends and get into the right schools. All of this while I was the golden/only who got good grades. I wasn’t allowed to pick my activities which they will vehemently deny because they are so supportive of “my” goals. Because I couldn’t trust my parents to help when some friends were down on their luck financially, I pocketed lunch money because it went farther at the grocery store than at school and would cook and sneak out food so they wouldn’t go hungry. All of this was from 12-16 when I successfully snuck around like sal and got them to leave me alone most of the time. This doesn’t even get into when I had less control because I didn’t understand how to seek outside support.
Oh yeah, and my parents also went through trash in my room for evidence of wrong doing because I’m such a “dirty” person who can’t keep her own room straight and my dad would log in and read my emails to all my friends and use emotional black mail for that. My grandfather started keeping hold of an allowance he gave me so my dad couldn’t take it away for displeasing him. How would I displease him? by not being Cinderella while volunteering as a teenage so I could get a scholarships. Cinderella in the literal connotation where I couldn’t go out unless I finished these extra 5 chores pulled out of thin air that shouldn’t have been mine to begin with.
Still very messed up and have them involved in my life because love and relationships are complicated, but much more grounded and safe, yes. Unfortunately my parents are the Good Intentions does not equal Good Actuons. The emotional and mental abuse was real but came about from their own problems and messed up back grounds. Definitely not an excuse, but I at least understand why they aren’t very functional.
As someone who grew up with abusive parents, and who somehow ended up friends with almost all people who grew up with various kinds of abusive parents, this isn’t cartoonish at all.
Honestly, when my friend group goes over to the house of the one friend with AMAZING parents (who also treat the rest of us as their kids, and actually took in at least one friend whose homophobic parents kicked them out), we all kinda look at each other as if seeing their happy, functional family is cartoonish, because it’s so far removed from the reality we grew up with that it’s tough to comprehend that some families actually LIKE each other.
I: Basic greeting, shout out to some friends and cool teachers
II: Down to business: talk about challenges and overcoming them
A: Challenges some of my friends faced (don’t identify who without permission)
B: Challenges I faced
III: Talk motivations, generally
A: Some people have supportive parents, source of strength
B: Some people make their own family as a source of strength
C: Some people came from bad folks and draw strength from that
IV: My own story
A: Marcie getting injured and me trying to raise money
B: Out mom for stealing the money and the racist reasons she did so
C: Point her out in the audience
D: How my hatred for her fueled my drive to succeed
V: Conclusion
A: My goals: Medical research, help Marcie talk again
B: We all have more challenges ahead
C: But now we know we have the strength to meet them
D: Best of luck to everyone and go conquer the future
E: Fuck you, mom, I still hate you forever
Screw you, Linda, screw you with a massive barge-pole. Grrrrrrrrrr. (And screw you Charles too for your complicity). You should care about your children’s lives because you care about them, not because of how they make you look. And then you choose to hold this bullcrap over Sal just because you think she’s making you look bad (because everything is all about you after all). Congratulations, henceforth you are definitely and unambiguously one of the shittiest parents in this webcomic.
Good Ol’ Linda continues to be awful:
1. Daughter’s best friend gets injured and might lose her voice forever? Not only does she not lift a finger to help with the operations, but she can only see it as validation that Marcie and Sal should stop being friends. Yeah she says they are “bad for each other” but the only thing she cares about is that Marcie is a “bad influance on Sal”. Probably trying to blame all of Sal’s issues caused by her own shitty parenting on Marcie’s Hooligun Influance.
2. Reminder that a few years ahead of this, Billie gets shitfaced drunk and drives a car into a tree, almost killing the people she is with (including Alice). Linda never says that Walky should cut connections with Billie, that she is a bad influance on him and he should make better friends (she also bullied with throughout high school and did general Party Girl stuff). Billie is still the mom-approved friend and Linda’s surrogate daughter. Marcie… got beat up and her parents are illegal immigrants and that’s enough to make her something Sal should stay away from.
3. AAaaaaand she also violates her daughter’s privacy and sense of personal property. She just fucking searched Sal’s room and found something that she CLEARLY WANTED TO KEEP HIDDEN AND IN A SAFE PLACE because she’s the mom and that means she can do that (it can’t) and then she took it for herself cause lol Sal’s a kid and not a real person who actually owns stuff.
4. NOT ONLY DOES SHE NOT LIFT A FINGER TO HELP WITH MARCIE’S SURGERY SHE ACTIVELY STOPS SAL AND MARCIE FROM BEING ABLE TO AFFORD IT. SHE’S KEEPING A 13 YEARS OLD GIRL AWAY FROM HEALTHCARE BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO PUNISH HER DAUGHTER FOR NOT MAKING SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE ENOUGH FRIENDS.
5. In the Present-Day of the Comic, the Marcie\Sal friendship is not entirely healthy. Sal is too attached to the idea that it’s just her and Marcie against the world that she’s totally averse to either of them making new friends even though Marcie wants too, Sal sometimes takes Marcie for granted (Complaining about how Marcie’s security guard job ‘makes her like a cop’ as if Marcie doesn’t need the money to pay rent so she could keep living next to Sal) and so on and so fourth. None of those things factor into why this isn’t a “Healthy Friendship” in Linda’s eyes (this things doesn’t seem to be true in this point in time), it’s “unhealthy” cause Marcie is someone that is socially acceptable to beat up and Sal wants to defend her and Sal built up some violence issues that Linda’s gonna blame on a vauge “criminal influance” and not on her own shitty parenting. What Present-Day Sal needs is some more connections outside of Marcie, but they are best friends and love each other dearly and they should cut their connections entirely.
6. Linda doesn’t think about herself as a “Bad Parent”, just that Sal makes her look like one. She thinks she’s a Good Parent because she’s got all the superficial trappings of one: she’s a white middle-class lady, she doesn’t deny them food and sheltred and clothing and toys, she is proud of their achivements and she… well… she thinks she loves her children. She is so assured that she is a Good Parent by default that she never stops and think “Hey, what if what I did is bad and makes me a bad parent?” even if it’s an OBVIOUS RED FLAG THAT YOU DID SOMETHING BAD. Your daughter’s mad at you cause you stole 700$ from her that was supposed to go to her BFF’s operation? Does that mean you have honestly hurt her feelings and you might need to reconsider your options? Nah, she’s just a teenager overreacting, nothing to pay attention to. What sort of parent PAY ATTENTION to the emotions of their teenaged kids? You are a Good Parent, and therefore your decision was right and there’s no reason to second-guess it and your kid is overrreacting.
7. “I love you” this interactions and probably others like it made Sal view this as a lie, not a reassurance after an agrument. And in a way it is a lie… albit an unintentional one. Linda thinks she loves her kids, but what she loves is not the kids she actually has, but a vauge idea of what they should be. She loves an idea of a hypothetical Sal that’s well behaved and doesn’t yell at her mother and chooses better friends like Billie or Leland or some shit. She loves the idea that Walky is a kid-genius who is so smart and talented and he’s gonna be a great doctor one day and she’ll be very proud as the Good Parent of a Doctor. Just like Naomi and Ross love a hypothetical straight version of their kid, and not the actual person they have brought into the world.
God, you’re totally right about the Billie dynamic. That’s not something I would have considered myself and it’s totally fucked. You can’t even argue that Linda holds any of this against Billie because Billie gets an actual present in the care package
I’m not able to find a winner in the “worst parent” race. It seems like a neck and neck, photo finish between Sal/Walky, Joyce, Becky, and Amber.
I think Willis must have been bit by a parent as a child and that has forever influenced his feelings about them which is represented in his works.
But I get it. I have a love/hate relationship with my own father. More hate than love recently, since he has been more of a jerk lately (well, lately as regards to things I am currently begrudging him about at least) to my siblings. And I’m not at all a young man.
We’ve seen good parents in this strip – most prominently the Keeners and Saruyamas – and um. This is definitely in the territory where we bring up ‘Joyce is autobiographical’. There was a blog post about the subject back at the end of the Toedad arc.
Don’t forget Ruth: Clint doesn’t get off the hook because he’s her grandparent, not parent.
I’d still put that trio: Blaine/Ross/Clint, at the worst tier. With Carol and Linda in the next. Probably Naomi as well, except that we haven’t seen as much of her.
And yeah, Willis has talked about his issues with his parents.
It’s Blaine. Blaine wins on account that he’s actually out for Amber’s suffering, unlike the others (maaaaaybe Clint, too, but no clarification on tha front).
Commentariat: “Blaine is the worst parent ever.”
Linda: “Bish, please. Hold my respectable drink because only poor people drink beer.”
Like, this is genuinely Blaine-level shit here, except Blaine would have the decency (words I never thought I’d write in that order) to not pretend he was doing it for Amber’s sake. It’s really quite amazing how every strip we think Linda has hit rock bottom, she just pulls out a higher-powered drill and goes to town. Coreward, ahoy.
On the upside, BBCC is probably immortal now. Decades from now, at her funeral, someone in the world will have but to whisper “Linda’s not that bad” and she’ll throw open the coffin lid with a yell that’ll be heard around the world: “THE FUCK SHE ISN’T, SHITHEEL!”
Linda was a nasty classicist before and what I term the “liberal racist” but this is stealing money from a charity. The fact the charity is done by her daughter is immaterial.
Yeah, never thought I’d say this about Blaine, but at least he’s up front that he thinks his financial investment in people means he gets to dictate their lives.
Now excuse me while I vomit, and then scrub my brain out.
Well, yes, Blaine is untoppable (but Ryan isn’t a parent yet, and he’s totally in the running) for the simple reason that he causes harm INTENTIONALLY. Making other people suffer is part of the endgame. I don’t think any other parental figure in DoA hits that point, and that puts them lower on the overall evil list.
This is a different axis. Blaine would never do what Linda’s doing, because he’d just take the money. Maybe he’d grandstand about it, once Amber found out. But he’d never pretend he was doing it for her own good (to Amber, anyway).
But yes, Blaine tops evil shit list on the account that the suffering is part of the goal, and he’s followed closely by Ryan, which is the same.
One time when I was a kid, I had this little baby t-rex figure thing, he was right out of Jurassic Park 2. I loved that toy so much, I played with it all the time, it even joined my Barbie games. To this day, I don’t remember what angered my mom so much. Maybe I was loud, or bring a brat, or she just had a very bad day. Maybe she nearly tripped on my toys. Either way she took that beloved toy and chunked him in the garbage.
I do remember, clear as day, how it felt to sob and cry and boo-hoo over my little toy that had been thrown away. Eventually I was just so loud in the middle of the night with my crying that my dad woke up and dug the toy out of the smelly garbage for me. Despite later cleaning my dino toy up, he still carried a hint of garbage and eventually I didn’t play with him and he wound up lost like all forgotten toys.
My mom is hardly as bad as Linda, but sometimes parents just don’t have any respect for boundaries or their children’s feelings. It’s a sad, awful fact and I feel for everyone else who knows exactly what that feels like, or worse.
Soaring to the top of the shit list without even assaulting anyone, wow Linda.
It’s maybe especially troubling cause it’s hard to imagine how this villain is ever going to be defeated. Maybe if on Linda’s death bed Sal can go “Remember when you stole my money and ruined my friend’s life cause you didn’t think she was good enough for me and I promised I’d hate you forever and you dismissed that because you decided as a child my feelings weren’t valid? Well, what you did was wrong, and it didn’t work, and you were wrong about Marcie, and I have never stopped hating you.”
My hope is she ends up much like Blaine did in the Walkyverse – alone after her children wisely got the fuck away, and said children refusing to bury that abuse at the funeral and making shit awkward and socially unacceptable because their being here and the emotions they have over a biological parent’s death are so awkward.
It’s not as good as the terrible parent actually having that realization, but I’ll take emotionally healthy recovering kids over them having to spend one more moment with someone in the hopes of a revelation the shitstain’ll probably never have.
I’m fairly pleased with this comment section. I see far more folks than I expected recognizing Linda’s abuse for what it is, and far less folks essentially saying ‘yeah but she *loves* Sal so that makes it okay!’ I’m not surprised those comments exist, mind — they exist in real life too, and that’s how my own abusers kept me on the leash for so long. When you hear stuff like ‘well at least they didn’t ____ so you can’t have been *that* abused’ you end up on unstable ground, constantly questioning reality too much to even fight back. Isolation and gaslighting are a trip and a half, y’all. 0/10, do not recommend.
Now, here’s a Fun Fact: I still live with my abusers! But it’s amazing how much healthier you can be when you’re not constantly doubting your own reality. I was ‘lucky’ in that my own sibling walked through fire *with* me; I can’t imagine going through that kind of bullshit without someone physically in my home who Knew and Understood and Experienced what was going on. With that in mind, I hope future (present) Walky eventually ends up knowing and understanding more of what Sal went through, even if he didn’t experience the exact brand of shiz she did. Having someone there who can say ‘yes, that happened, I was there, and it *was* in fact as bad as you remember’ is such a dang relief and a blessing.
(Also: obligatory ‘fuck Linda, and also Charles’. Because one parent standing idly by while another is abusing a child doesn’t absolve that parent at all. Kinda the opposite! Good job, Charles, I say with 110% sarcasm.)
Glad you and your sibling are in at least better shape from the sounds of things, and seconded on the hopes Walky realizes the full extent of this fuckery someday and the fuck Charles.
I grew up in a very Christian religious household. For once, this is a story that did NOT end up with a horrific twist at the end. I actually got led away by bad influences that made me the asshole. However, the relevance here is that we did a lot of charity work and raised a lot of money.
This is STEALING FROM CHARITY. This is not stealing from Sal. Which is terrible, yes, but it seems far far more so in the way that Der Cheeto turns out to have his charities funded his campaign when the money should have gone for kids with cancer.
Wow, took over an hour just to read through the comments today. Totally worth it though, go discourse!
So, my own stupid assorted thoughts:
1) To anybody for whom this sequence felt familiar or made them think of their own home situations, I am so goddamn sorry. I hope you are, or get to a better place! Your pain is valid, never let others tell you that it’s not.
2) Establishing that Linda isn’t as bad as Blaine, Ross, Clint, etc is… not super necessary? She’s still a terrible parent regardless of how she stacks up to others. Qualifying her so specifically carries this implication that people have to limit their emotional response to her actions. Like you aren’t allowed to get too mad, because there’s worse parents? It’s like drawing a distinction between being tortured to death and just being shot (I wish I had a nicer comparison to make, but I don’t)- yes one is worse than the other but either way you’re dead. It’s important to let people have their emotional reactions to shit like this without getting bogged down in details. And hey, if there’s anyone who feels/felt they had to make that distinction because they didn’t want to seem overly outraged at Linda- it’s okay, you can hate her as much as you want!
3) Linda’s parenting is so awful and so believable at the same time. I’m simultaneously outraged at the character and impressed Willis portrayed her so well despite her rarely actually appearing.
Linda’s parenting style comes from, I think, this mentality that her children can’t make decisions on their own. She thinks they’re too young/inexperienced, missing a bigger picture, too emotional, something along those lines. So she ‘knows better’, and makes decisions for them, ignoring what they themselves want if she has to. Which I guess is normal parenting up to a point, but that mentality has a lot of damaging aspects which Linda is going in way too hard on. She’s refusing to let Sal have any agency, only trusting her own judgement that Sal has “made the wrong friends” and only cares so much because she’s a misguided kid. Linda value’s Sal’s feelings and actions so little, and her own knowledge so much, that she has no problem with taking $700 from Sal without any more thought than taking away a toy. Everything in her actions today is basically her shouting “I’m right, you’re wrong, now shut up and wait for history to absolve me”.
It’s no wonder the Walkertwins are so emotionally stunted- Linda’s tried really hard to teach them that they can’t be right about anything.
4) I really want to know the specifics of this “incident” Linda’s referencing. We know a fair amount (thanks to Packy Anderson on Patreon for reminding me what we do know), enough for me to guess that it was maybe Marcie getting hurt in retaliation for Sal defending her previously (maybe Leland was even responsible?). And the specifics couldn’t possibly justify Linda’s behavior. But still, I hope we find out.
5) There’s a ton of other points to made about Linda, and Charles, and Sal, that other people have already made better than I ever could. I really, really enjoy being able to learn as much as I do from the comic and the comments section- thank you all so much! That being said, if I got anything wrong in my prior points, do please correct me!
6) BBCC wrote and shared a really incredibly excellent bit of fanfiction further up and I am compelled to give it a shout-out. If you at all like DoA fanfic, absolutely give it a read! Just look for the extremely long post full of very good points roughly halfway up the comments.
(Apologies if I’m out of line in doing that- I’m so excited to see DoA fic!)
Thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed it. I needed to write something, I was too mad and otherwise that long comment would’ve been one long string of fuck you’s. And IKR? There really isn’t much fanfic of DoA.
I’m glad you were able to vent some frustration. Not that “one long string of fuck you’s” would have been unwarranted or anything. And hey, count me as +1 person who will be very excited if you ever decide to write more! You pretty much hit every note I’m looking for in fanfic, especially with the ending.
DoA is the first piece of media for which I’ve ever wanted to ship characters and write fanfic about them. And I know that’s a really specific-to-me case, but nonetheless when I first started looking for fic I was really surprised that there wasn’t more of it! Sometimes I wonder if people have written lots of fic, but they’re just like me and too scared to put it out in the wild. *shrug*
I was surprised by the lack of fic too! Maybe because this fanbase seems to skew older and so people are busier? I’m glad I was able to deliver something you were looking for. Not sure if Sal/Marcie’s a ship you sail in particular, but it was nice to get one of my ideas for them out there. I have a few ships I could stand to write for but they’re the one I have the most ideas for.
I have an idea for what might have happened had Sal and Marcie gone to meet her parents instead, but I’m holding that one off for a bit until I can phrase things the way I want to. Other than that ship though, there’s a few ideas I have that I might kick around.
Unpopular opinion time: Linda is completely and totally as bad as Toedad.
A lot of people on here seem to be of the thought that Toedad is definitely worse because of the threat of physical violence he rained down upon Becky. But to me, this move by Linda is a form of emotional violence, and emotional violence is just as, if not more, damaging.
And yes, Toedad enacted emotional violence upon Becky as well.
I still think the metaphorical knife that Linda is using to carve at Sal’s heart here makes her just as bad as Toedad.
This is why I don’t really try to quantify which of the Worst Parents is The Absolute Worst. They’re all evil. The nicest thing I can say about Linda right now in this moment is that she’s not using a hostage the way Blaine, Toedad, and ‘Sir’ Clint have, but extorting her young teenage child with money she stole. (Abusing Howard when Ruth displeases him and making sure Ruth knows that? Yeah I’m counting it.)
If the only bars you can clear are things like ‘not literally taking hostages’ you are so irredeemably terrible that trying to quantify past that point is meaningless. Isolating, stealing from, and extorting your child for the same sense of control as the dude who kidnapped his child at gunpoint makes you the same exact type of shitstain and does the exact same type of long term damage. Fuck them all.
Toedad ranks as high as he does because of what he visited upon others, same as Blaine. Linda and Naomi are awful people, Joyce’s mom also exhibits awful qualities, but none of them have assaulted people or pulled guns on people they’ve never met. Blaine and Ross did that, which puts them on a different tier. Emotional abuse is bad. Emotional abuse plus physical abuse and violent assault on strangers is that plus, like, a few more things.
You know, comics like these last few make me wonder if we will actually see the previously foreshadowed Walky/Lucy ship. I could easily see Linda being the “nobody’s good enough for my golden child” mother-in-law from hell. Dorothy was an obvious exception, but they didn’t know her for that long, and she had the good first impression of getting Walky to dress nicer and being white. Combine with the fact that Linda might meet the next girlfriend with the context of knowing Walky’s failing grades, I dunno, I just see Lucy as more likely to tick off Linda than Amber (and more likely to claim that Walky’s failing is because of her even though they met after that). Also, since Amber/Walky is made of shared self-loathing, Linda being a jerk to Amber might not tick her off so much? *shrugs*
Sadly, I saw a much nastier reason why Linda would dislike Lucy. That she’s darker skinned than Walkerton. You know, despite being wonderful in every possible way–which would force Walky to realize his mother really is a flaming bigot.
Oh yeah, I believe it. That’s part of why, I think, narratively, it will happen. Walky’s narrative has been slowly going the trajectory where he realizes his sister is right and their mom is awful, and part of why I think the Lucy relationship might happen. They probably would be good together (at least, they could be huge dorks together) without all the crazy baggage that Walky and Amber have. And Lucy’s one of the sweetest, kindest members of the cast, but she’s dark-skinned with natural hair, and not particularly quiet which is the trifecta for bigots interpreting everything a woman of color does as horrible.
Trust me speaking from experience a 13-year-old is capable of that sort of hatred. Of course, it didn’t help that the bastard keep adding fuel to the fire. I still have nightmares regarding him.
Oh and in case it’s not implied, GIGANTIC APPROPRIATE GESTURES OF SUPPORT TO LITERALLY EVERYONE HERE. I’ve a friend who’s confronting their parents over this type of gaslighting shit. Reading about all of the people who go through this, knowing it has happened to countless people as well as people I love… it’s hard. My parents haven’t always been perfect but they’re good people, and if nothing else, they have never ever done anything like this to me. Finding out that that’s not normal for everyone… well, let’s just say I’m grateful to the poster who put up that charity link.
And yeah, as for the comic… I was just going over abusive fictional parents the other day. Linda’s above Malory Archer, but she’s below Beth and Jerry Smith, pushing hard towards Cersei Lannister.
Er, unless the show drifts SIGNIFICANTLY away from the books, Cersei wasn’t an abusive parent. I mean, she was a parent and she was abusive, just not towards her kids. That she cared for the kids was pretty much her one redeeming feature.
I could be wrong as I haven’t watched it but rather read about it, but if I remember right, Cersei sets Tommen and Margarey up to die in order to seize power for herself and to get back at him for drifting away from her control?
Not quite. She kills Margaery and in his grief over it, Tommen commits suicide. Whether she anticipated it or not, she’s too burned out to grieve much over him at that point.
I’d argue Cersei gets fairly abusive in AFFC. At the very least, she gives Tommen a lot of grief for being sick at Tywin’s funeral (he was 8) and there was another instance where she ordered him to whip one of his friends until he bled and, were Tommen to protest, to have his friend’s tongue removed in front of him.
I HATE LINDA I HATE LINDA I HATE LINDA I HATE LINDA I HATE LINDA I HATE LINDA I HATE LINDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What kind of monster steals hardworked money from their children? What kind of evil monster mocks a girl that was injured in her throat? Linda, you are a victim blaming bastard, and Sal was right about you! Because of you Sal became a cynnical jerk that got her hand stabbed, and Walky became a manchild with a lot of insecurities! I hope you burn in hell!
Families are complicated. After all this and more, Sal still wants Linda’s approval and love. She will dress up as a “good girl” and get her hair straightened. She will work for good grades in college, though college might not be her choice right now. All told, she is better to Walky than he has any right to expect, considering the favoritism she endured.
I’m sorry for being so aggressive earlier, but people saying that outright physical violence or abuse somehow outranks emotional or mental is a sticking point for me, and I’m going to lay down exactly why it’s a horrible equation to write.
Sal and Marcie are the two major characters in this arc with major physical disabilities. Sal wears gloves at all times (even when she sleeps, goddammit) and can no longer effectively play bass guitar, and Marcie can’t speak.
This happened because of the institutional racism in Indiana. Instead of Leland being punished as the bully he is, Marcie was shunned. Instead of Sal’s diligence and patience being rewarded (basically the second I had a debit card I’ve been really bad with money my entire life since. Sal is kicking ass), this horror show happened. Can you believe that Charles sits there as Sal calls his wife’s hypocrisy out and she just ignores it? Just shouts over Sal?
And now Marcie can’t talk and Sal can’t play music like she used to. How fucking dare you compare them to Becky and say Becky had it worse when your meter is physical condition?
Go reread the link OBBWG posted. Sal has her right arm behind her back the entire time she’s in that horrible uniform. I’m done here.
Yeah, as someone who has a physical disability that causes chronic pain, and also has experienced emotional abuse/depression/anxiety, I can confidently say that emotional abuse/emotional damage can be just as debilitating as physical damage.
Read this just after midnight and was too angry to comment. Just read it again, about 12 hours later… still too angry to post anything useful or helpful.
I’m not sure why this strip triggers me so badly, as no one has ever, AFAIK, done this to me or my siblings that I don’t have. (No, I’m not being sarcastic, in case it came across that way. I’m an only child)
Have you ever seen someone do something horrible, something evil, for nothing else but a personal mental gain? An invisible point on an invisible scoreborard that was put up there by a betrayal you could (but maybe not would) kill someone over?
I sincerely sincerely hope Sal calls Linda out on the lifetime of abuse she’s suffered.
I dunno, judging by Linda’s “I’m always right and I know what’s best” attitude, it probably wouldn’t help, and might actually make things worse for Sal. Some people will never admit to wrongdoing, and Linda seems like that type of person.
Speaking from personal experience, when you call out a person like that on their behavior, they tend to turn it around, guilt trip you, and make you feel even WORSE, especially if they’re still holding you emotionally hostage via their approval. I’ve learned from experience that the only way to deal with people like that is get some space from them, and get your life out of their control as soon as you can. Therapy with a compassionate therapist to help you realize your self-worth is NOT dependent on their approval also does wonders.
Well… at least none of the panels are red, right? So, not triggering?
Although, TBH, Sal looks like she’s at red-panel-inducing levels of rage right now. So… maybe these AREN’T Sal’s memories we’re seeing right now? Maybe they’re Linda’s? Or Walky’s? Or perhaps Charles’? Let’s find out who the scene cuts to…
I think this might be one of Linda’s biggest regrets when she looks back. I am assuming she’s coming from a place of love & is just doing something horrible because she’s desperate & blind to how shitty it is. If she never realizes how bad it is then Sal really will hate her forever.
Yeah, Linda, there’s “hey your friendship with this person is probably not good for you” and then there’s taking the 700 dollars your 13 year old daughter has saved up to do the right thing and help someone and taking it, all while denying her her emotional response to the situation and telling her to “just get better friends.”
No having her seek therapy when there’s clearly something going on. No comfort. No letting shit down gently.
I wonder how much of Linda and Charles behavior has influenced Walkys ideas of what a man should be.
Charles appears (though to be fair we haven’t seen a lot of him) to be a bit of a pushover (or laid back) and is letting Linda run things so I’m wondering if Walkys version of masculinity is a reaction to how Charles acts
I’d wouldn’t say it influenced walky as a reaction/counter too it, but Charles passivity certainly influenced walky.
For all his constant boasting about being a man and the insecurities he has about anything he sees as even slightly girly, Walky is just as passive and Ambitionless as Charles and does just do what people tell him and meanders through life
This is… way more familiar than I wish it was. I’ve commented on parallels between shitty parents here and mine already but…fuck. Linda is my dad here. I am surprised she isn’t threatening to burn the cash if Sal doesn’t keep a civil tongue in her head. My dad would’ve.
Ever have one of those, “Wait, that was actually really shitty” moments when something makes you reevaluate a big part of your childhood? Yeah. I am having one. And need to go play video games to distract from the eeeeee my anxiety makes over the prospect.
Like this is not the first time one of these comments reminded me of my childhood but it IS the first time it induced literal flashbacks of Dad burning my things/thowing out my things/stealing my things/threatening me with abandonment/etc. I feel sick and shakey.
Willis, if this comes from a place in your past I am sorry.
One thing I’ve learned… never tell your kids who they should or shouldn’t be friends with. Kids, and people, find the friends they do, because of shared experiences or mutual understandings. They fill a void in a way that family can’t. Family is the round hole and peg… but friendships are the square hole, and when other people are only offering the triangle peg, that won’t work.
Everytime a parent tells their child (who has hit the age of reason) that they can’t be friends with someone… all you do is strengthen their resolve to be their friend. Because how dare you tell anyone that they aren’t allowed the square peg, that they aren’t allowed to be happy on their own terms?
I mean… Dorothy’s seem fine, as do Danny’s. Mike’s parents are bundles of love and joy as always. Amber’s mom and Joyce’s dad are doing their best. Carla’s folks have only appeared in Patreon strips (which I consequently have not read) but I understand they’re pretty good.
Interesting how goodness-of-parents (discounting individual parents) seems to be inversely correlated to plot relevance.
Well I mean “comic where everyone’s parents are loving and supportive and supportive inflicted no lasting childhood trauma” just doesn’t sound as interesting
Also while I don’t thing my mom is abusive (?) This strikes me as something she would do
Reminds me of my shitty aunt who stole my shit for being bisexual. That woman took the phone I was paying the bill for and didn’t ever fucking give it back.
For me this is where Flashback!Linda goes from “overly judgmental but I can at least see rational concerns underlying this” to “Oh Holy Shit Lady please escort yourself to the nearest fire, die in it, go directly to hell, and never stop burning.”
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“OK FINE FOREVER MINUS THIRTEEN”
But technically correct since neither will live forever.
Isn’t it sweet how Linda is protecting Sal from wasting her money?
Also, #DamnYouWillis.
I suddenly had this vision of them accidentally becoming immortal and having this exchange:
Sal: I STILL HATE YOU
Linda: You’re only four million and six. It won’t last.
Sal in Midwestern dumbguy voice “All my losses was Lessons”
Sleep is for those who can’t handle cookies!
I bet I could sleep while eating cookies. I once sleepwalked to my bathroom and brushed my teeth without waking up, and the only reason I know it happened is the next morning I had toothpaste all over me shirt.
Can’t rule out that any cookie incidents may have occurred. Maybe that’s why sleeping me felt obligated to brush his teeth again.
Did you ever sleep walk yourself over to the toilet? I’ve always wondered if that would count as enureusis
Needing the restroom always wakes me up. As a kid though I once woke up sleeping in the bathtub. Had my pillow and everything. I think it was too hot in my room, and I wanted to sleep someplace cool.
And once you woke up, you could immediately wash the sweat from being too hot in your room off in the shower. What a convenient time saver!
My brother once sleep walked out into the kitchen at my granma’s house, opened the door to the woodburning stove, peed in the firebox and sleepwalked back to bed. We know this because granma and my mum were sitting in the kitchen at the time.
when I was little I would sleep plank all the time. Go to sleep normally and wake up with either my feet or torso dangling off the bed and just groan “oh damnit I did it again!”
I once (in my student days) fell asleep on my feet in the bathroom.
I woke up, still on my feet, with two weird kinesthetic memories. One was of stumbling around trying not to fall down. The other was of trying to put something in my mouth that was too big to fit.
Then I noticed that I was holding my hairbrush – and there was toothpaste on it.
8)
I can handle cookies. So why do I keep falling asleep?
Holy shit, fuck Linda.
Good god.
This lady is horrendous. Betting she never gave that money back either.
Oh, I’m fairly certain that she “gave it back” by spending it on Sal’s tuition.
Why?
Because this exact thing (well, minus the money being for surgery and when I was slightly older) happened to me.
My first job, I earned a bit over $1200 dollars. I was responsible and saved it…
And then one of my parents informed me that I was to hand it over to help pay for my future college expenses. I was “paid back” when my parents wrote a check to the college so I could live in a dorm a year later.
I have kids of my own now, and I can say with utmost certainty that I will never do anything like this to them. Whatever ‘lesson’ about hard work it was supposed to teach utterly failed because it only made me feel powerless and resentful.
So yeah… fuck Linda Walkerton.
(added the last name because I do not wish to give offense to any other Linda’s present)
That is in fact some prime bullshit.
The fact that Sal’s thirteen here and Linda’s using it with the ultimatum suggests to me it didn’t go as far as college tuition, but the Catholic school? Probably justifying it as her making new friends. God I hate this fictional character.
That is bullshit. Parents can unfortunately be bullshit. When my mother died we learned one of the reasons that her sisters and our older hated hated me (in particular) and my brother so much. She would always talk about us borrowing money, which happened from time to time. In my case, I had to learn how to budget for the fact that my now ex would spend money without documenting it in our checking account and so I never knew how much money I had and was often overdrawn. Later, when I was able to get things under control I was paying her back. That was the part she kept leaving out. After the funeral, they found envelopes with our names on them and running totals. Both envelopes were in the black because we also gave her money to hang onto for us, or rent whenever either of us lived there as adults. She never told them that part, only the complaints.
Have the same problem with my parental finances….As I’m 38, I can’t help but feel these methods have more to do with indulging the parents’ control issues than anything that really benefits their kids, despite all good intentions…..
I’ve decided that the parent I hate most, between Ross, Blaine, and Linda, is whichever one is on-panel at any given time.
Like, I know that this TECHNICALLY isn’t as bad as kidnapping or assault with a deadly weapon, but damned if it doesn’t piss me off just as much at the moment.
In the sense of life threateningly bad, no, not as bad…but Ross was at least in a crisis of his own, absolutely broken in that moment.
This is Linda when she’s in control and feeling safe and powerful.
They’re both nasty bits of work. But Linda’s more Blaine than Ross.
I was not expecting to go from mildly disliking a character to hating them in the span of a single comic.
Let’s see how much that one action on Linda’s part affected people: Sal robbed a store, terrifying Ethan and causing irreparable trauma to Amber. While Amazi-Girl has done some good things (says the person with a completely coincidental AG avatar), Amber/AG also caused emotional harm to Danny and is likely going to cause similar troubles for Walky. ALSO, Marcie doesn’t get her voice back.
I’m in no way disagreeing with you on any point; I’d just like to add some nuance.
Sal definitely blames Linda at least in part for Marcie never getting her voice back, and from her perspective, she’s right to do so because Linda stole money from her that she was going to put towards that purpose. Sal’s efforts were directly contradicted by Linda’s actions, and that’s important. Sal can blame Linda, but we can’t.
What I mean is: with or without Linda, the story clearly communicates that Sal wasn’t going to be successful in getting Marcie her voice back, and it’s unfair for us as an audience to hate a character for a thing that was going to happen regardless of that character’s actions. We can one hundred percent hate the character for the things they do (and this is a thing worth hating them for), but we can’t blame characters we don’t like for things which aren’t their fault. That’s unfair to each character involved and the story as a gestalt entity.
Linda is shitty, but it’s not because Marcie doesn’t get her voice back: Linda is shitty because she racistly hates one of her children, violated that child’s privacy, stole money from that child because she didn’t approve of what it was going to be spent on, etc.
I feel like you’re arguing we can’t hate a character for in-universe reasons because of out of universe reasons. By this logic, we can’t hate Blaine for his abuse at the robbery which lead to Amazi-Girl because we had to get Amazi-Girl for the story to work and that’s not Blaine’s fault. From an out of universe perspective, that’s true. In-universe though, it’s still absolutely Blaine’s fault.
Now it’s true we don’t know what the surgery’s odds were or that it would have been successful, but in universe, part of the reason Marcie’s not going to get said surgery is because of Linda and I don’t think it’s wrong to hate her for that, especially when she knows the stakes.
No I get what SebastainsTemple is saying here, it’s in universe not out. That in universe even if Sal had kept that money she was unlikely to ever raise enough for the whole surgery. We can’t say for sure but it seems unlikely given the rate at which she had raised $ up to that point. So while you may hate her for doing it it doesn’t mean it is her fault Marcie hasn’t gotten the surgery
Sure, out of universe. In universe, it is partially her fault, because she is taking money (whether saved or fundraised) that is specifically earmarked for Marcie.
Right but in universe it doesn’t matter whether or not linda took the money. In the AU where linda didn’t take away that money, Marcie still didn’t get her voice back
True, but even if they weren’t ever able to save up enough money for the surgery, that was still money raised for Marcie that she could have used for any other medical expenses, like therapy, doctor’s visit, or her ASL lessons- really anything. It’s not Linda’s fault that Marcie doesn’t get her voice back, but it is her fault that something intended to help Marcie was wrongfully taken away, because she decided it wasn’t worth it.
@ Airyu – That’s out of universe. In universe, Linda took money that was earmarked to help Marcie, which is part of the reason Marcie didn’t get surgery. So, in universe, yes, it is partially her fault.
@ Pam – Yeah, even if it didn’t go to surgery, US health care is EXPENSIVE. $700 can’t hurt, especially when adjusting to the disability of a child. In or out of universe, taking the money is despicable.
Nope.
We can absolutely hate her for that. Whether Sal would have made enough is immaterial. Taking that money was a horrendous thing to do.
She took money from her child(not a small sum either) that they had specifically saved with the intention to use to help a friend, then said they’d give it back when the child was no longer associated with said friend.
So can we be upset at her with how the story turned out, you can make a argument no. Can you be upset with her for being a horrible human being, yes
It’s probably true that Linda taking the money is not directly responsible for Marcie not getting her voice back.
However, it’s still okay for Sal to hate her for it.
Its still okay for us to hate her for it, too.
Let us be clear. She stole money. Which other people have saved and donated – remember, online campaign – for charity.
That is actually a crime. And a morally reprehensible thing to do. $700 might not get Marcie’s voice back, but it was almost half of an ambulance ride that her family couldn’t afford.
This is not morally ambiguous. This is straight up evil.
Book suggestion: People of the Lie by Scott Beck.
Right at the beginning he tells a story about a boy who stole a car. In talking to him (Beck is a psychiatrist, back when they still talked to patients instead of just giving them pills) Beck found out that for Christmas the boys gave him a rifle for Christmas.
The same rifle that his older brother had committed suicide with.
The parents couldn’t understand why Beck thought that was a bad thing.
Linda seems to be the same type of parent.
1) Plenty of psychiatrists still talk to their patients
2) Psychiatrists have ALWAYS “handed out pills” – that’s their job. Therapists and psychologists do not and cannot hand out pills, because that is not what they are qualified for.
3) While it is true that many people are overmedicated, and many doctors don’t have a choice if they want to stay funded, it’s important to not let personal bias cloud one’s vision.
^This. I was diagnosed with ADHD at around age seven, almost 20 years ago, and I can assure you that without medication, I would not have had even remotely close to the success in life that I’ve managed since. I probably would have struggled to graduate high school. I also would have been *utterly miserable,* because it was hard enough as it was to make friends, and if I’d been bouncing off the walls even harder than I was, I probably wouldn’t have managed that at all. I still need them to drive, as well, so for all of your skepticism about medications used as psychiatric treatments, let me tell you that there are quite a few of us who would be far, far worse off without them.
I can’t speak to David T. Shaw’s original intent, but, I read it as, ‘psychiatrists used to be the go-to person for talk-therapy AND meds, but now, psychiatrists almost solely give meds, and we have Social Workers and other therapists for the talk-therapy part.”
I would never discount the importance of meds, but it’s true that psychiatrists used to be a one-stop-shop, but typically don’t get to do that anymore.
Oops, wrong email. Leorale is me.
Jesus Christ lady…
fucking yikes
Cheesus christ what the fuck woman
I mean, christ, I came in to talk some other shit about some new anime this season but this strip just
Quick question: is Linda’s last name Sugarman? Because that is some BoJack shit, right there!
You know, i didn’t realize I had been reading Linda’s lines in Beatrice’s voice until i read your comment
oh FUCK it CAN’T BE UNHEARD
Man, I gotta watch seasons four and five.
I finished season five recently.
And then I drank.
I will probably do the same when i finish season 5
You will need it…
Good thing i recently reached the legal drinking age
I think the fundamental goal of every BoJack Horseman season is to have darker, more disturbing content than the one before. Did not think season 5 wouls be able to accomplish that after season 4. I was wrong.
I See You
I think Beatrice is worse…
jesus christ, linda
That seven hundred dollars is probably paying for Sal’s tuition.
Actually… it’s probably paying for Walky’s tuition…
I hate how not wrong you are
God that is so sad yet probably accurate.
Oh man oh jeez
I would agree but from what we’ve seen/heard, Walky had good grades. He likely had a scholarship.
Sal, on the other hand, probably didn’t, ESPECIALLY since a lot of scholarships don’t allow you to go out of state if you simply got it for your test scores in High School and not for some other reason.
The Walkertons are from Indiana. She was sent to an out-of-state Catholic school as an alternative to juvie.
Or just to get rid of her after Linda pulled some strings to keep Sal out of juvie
I would’ve thought walky would be ineligible for most scholarships due to his parents having plenty of money?
That doesn’t matter in the slightest. That money could cure fucking cancer and she still stole form a 13 year old
I’m sure that’s the intent (because my parents did the same to me, see resentful rant above), but that doesn’t make it any less
A) bullshit
B) a terrible idea
C) barely a drop in the bucket. Pay for tuition? Ha. Pay for part of the dorm fees for a single semester at best.
A) Bullshit Like it helps the kid any in that place. Either the parents were going to pay or they weren’t.
B) A terrible idea
All that will teach kids is they better not save money because mom will steal it anyways so better buy that candybar now before she decides to steal it.
C)
Pretty sure they would have spent $700 on something else in five years.
Probably went towards paying for her boarding school.
In another state. Away from Marcie.
Or it was used to buy her motorcycle.
I would not ride on pavement a motorcycle that cost $700.
False economy, there.
Wow. That’s pretty bad.
And the search for a non-shitty parental figure continues!
We already new that Linda was shitty though, this neither helps or hinders in that regard.
Yes and no.
Yes, we knew she was shitty.
But there’s rolled-around-in-turds shitty, and then there’s solid-mass-of-feces shitty.
This lets us know which Linda is.
Honestly she’s not as shitty as she’s made to seem. The bar is very high on the bad parent rankings. Linda’s not even in the top 3 maybe not even the top 5.
Only if we’re counting Clint as a parent. This is financial abuse on top of the emotional stuff, plain and simple, made all the worse because she’s withholding money meant to pay for medical bills because she doesn’t approve of the patient. Plus a tremendous violation of privacy.
While I’m certain Carol can and will do something on this level eventually (threatening to pull Joyce out of school was bad enough, but she never had the chance to spring it on Joyce and try and extort her with it,) Linda is pulling this on a thirteen-year-old. This is a thing evil parents do to keep their kid financially dependent so they can’t escape the situation. This is a thing evil parents do to isolate their child so they can’t seek help or recognize their situation isn’t normal. This is a thing that evil parents do.
I think “evil” is a little extreme here. I’m no fan of Linda but her actions are coming from a place of love and concern as well as not so subtle racism. She’s still a mom who has provided a home and cared for Sal for most of her life. Not trying to start a fight but I mean……we’ve seen parents get in actual fist fights with their children and even attempt murder.
Her love means jack shit when she acts like this. Point blank.
And now I’m bowing out because I’ve already seen like 3 or 4 people defending Linda and if I see one more, I WILL go nuclear.
Yeah that’s probably the smart move for me too. This comic has successfully drawn another battle line in the sand. Please don’t go nuclear though. You provide some of the more thought provoking comments! 😀
I appreciate that, but with all due respect, your comments about Linda not being so bad were some of the closest to making me go nuclear.
**raises eyebrow**
I don’t think anyone is actively defending Linda here. I went back and read all of Kris’s comments to make sure, since you (BBCC) specifically called those out. My reading of Kris’s comments is simply that, as bad as Linda is, people like Blaine and Ross/Toedad are so much worse.
And yeah. As I said above, one of my parents did exactly this to me once, and I am still bitter about it 20+ years later. I have experienced this exact form of abuse – and I, as someone who has suffered this, am saying that Linda is not in the same ball park as Toedad or Blaine. Those two set the bar so insanely high that Linda can’t possibly rank that high unless she actually pulls a gun on Sal.
Like, a parent needs to commit multiple felonies against their child to rank up with those two. Linda has committed a misdemeanor (class A – I just looked it up).
Genuinely sorry for upsetting you. I’m not trying to piss people off. I enjoy reading the comments and debating with people while trying my best to be respectful. I’m just voicing my opinion but I don’t want to like trigger people or anything or trol just for lols.
Ross pulled a fucking gun on his daughter and her best friend “out of love,” get the fuck out with your bullshit. Linda never threatens Sal’s physical safety, but this is emotional abuse beyond almost anything seen so far, with only Blaine and Clint being on her level.
She stole $700 from her daughter to force her into being obedient by cutting ties with her closest friend because Linda is racist.
Linda is shit through and through and you’re showing your colors and just how much contempt we should have for you every time you defend any part of her actions.
@Leslie – Blaine and Ross are worse, and I’ve never said otherwise. However, when people say an abusive parent is ‘not that bad’ because others are worse (or, as others have argued, because her actions are done out of love or because they think she has a point), yes, that makes me very angry. And while I did specifically say Kris’ comments were making me angry, they are not the only one saying things like that. I think we’ve been reading those arguments differently and that’s fine, but yes, comments along those lines have made me very angry tonight.
@ Kris – It’s fine. My problem isn’t so much with you or your conduct as it is with what I understand your argument to be. Maybe my understanding is wrong, but at this time, that is how I felt.
@schpoonman- Like for real?! I was gonna and probably should ignore this but, you’re being unreasonable here. I don’t deserve backlash or contempt for having an unpopular opinion about a fictional character.
While your argument was one of several that made me angry, for what it’s worth, I do not have anything in particular against you as a person and I don’t hold you in contempt.
The problem is that your opinion, as far as I can tell, is that an abusive characters act of abuse towards their child isn’t abuse. That’s not just unpopular, that’s offensive.
My last roommate spent the entire year I lived with him mentally and emotionally abusing me with the “justification” that I had aspects of my life out of order and he was trying to help me grow up. I didn’t do the dishes enough in his book, and that was enough for him to treat me like shit at all times.
When you defend Linda, you defend him, and I stand by the statement that you can go fuck yourself.
@Proxiehunter and schpoonman: You know what. No.
Until Linda Walkerton tries to murder Sal or Walky, she is not as bad as Ross. Period.
People are acting as though there’s deeper meaning to be found from Linda’s abuse, or some way to justify it to redeem her, but it’s actually quite simple and rather binary.
You are either hurting people with your actions or you are not. Linda could have sat down with Sal and gave any fucks whatsoever about her only daughter. Even if the conversation still ended poorly, Sal would have been treated with dignity and respect and that makes all the difference.
Instead she pulls an actually evil (the fuck is she doing here, emulating Freeza?) move, stealing money from her daughter to hold her behavior hostage. Linds can act with good intentions until the heat death of the universe and it woll never justify all the pain and harm she inflicts.
Stop hurting people, and stop defending those who hurt people.
@lesliebean Abuse is not a competition though. Do not lessen the impact Linda’s abuse has had on her children because she hasn’t physically assaulted or threatened them. Saying Linda is not that bad because she hasn’t done anything like that diminishes the abuse that we have very clearly seen in display throughout the comic. You cannot compare abuse, and by doing so, you are comparing the victims of it. This logic has led many people to discount their experiences and deny they were ever abused because it “wasn’t that bad” or “Becky had it worse than me”.
No one here is saying that Linda’s actions are worst than what Ross is done, but they are acknowledging the impact that they’ve had, and considering where this ends for Sal, its pretty bad.
@LB4S I almost killed myself summer of 2017 because of the abuse that I went through, but my roommate didn’t personally pour me a glass of bleach, so it’s okay in your book, gotcha.
Stop treating this with levels. It’s fucking binary.
@schpoonman….again. Like at this point it’s beyond a simple argument about Linda’s character. If you read my original comment I didn’t say it wasn’t abuse or that I was defending her. Abuse can and often does come from a place of love. The point I wanted to make was that Linda isn’t evil. Which I stand by.
But now you’re just being seriously rude. Other commentors have stated their opinion and countered my argument without directly insulting me. It’s feels almost like you’re claiming I am an abuser or something by proxy of my argument. I hope that’s not true, but that is how it feels to me.
Seriously done with this now.
@LB4S I want to apologize about the “okay in your book” line. It’s obviously not and I was reacting and not thinking. I’ve got a longer rebuttal down below that will hopefully more politely state my point.
@Kris It’s very clear that Linda does not love Sal and is at this point using her as an outlet for her racism. I’ll stop being rude, but evil triumphs when good men do nothing, and if you’re not saying that Linda is abusing Sal in this moment, you’re doing nothing.
@LeslieBean4Shizzle I never said she was as bad as Ross. What I said is that what is depicted here is an act of abuse. Some people are acting as if what she did here is not abusive and being as bad as Ross is not relevant to whether or not this was an act of abuse.
Not trying to invalidate other voices in this conversation (they are important! I have read this entire thread and I am listening!), but I see exactly where Kris is coming from and am in much the same camp myself.
I see a LOT of anger at the parental figures in this comic in the comments section in general, and sometimes it wears me a bit thin. Are many of them being shitty parents? Of course. Are most parents shitty in some way? IDK for sure, but probably. Part of growing up and becoming your own person is realizing that your worldview doesn’t align with your parents’ 100%. Whether that’s because your parents resist you becoming your own person, or they actively endanger you and the people around you, it’s all a spectrum, IMO, and sometimes actions that are not really okay (confiscating $700 your child earned / saved for their friend because you dislike said friend for shitty reason) aren’t as “bad” in the long run as actions that are REALLY not okay (showing up to a college campus and waving a gun around at your child and her friends).
I know some folks that like to turn the comments section into “bongo about the Walkertons o’clock” are probably processing some really bad trauma, and I am not trying to invalidate that trauma, but I’m also trying to connect to a piece of fiction in my own way, while being open to learning.
Then again, I don’t actually believe in morally “good” and “bad” as concepts. I believe in treating people the way they want to be treated, and I recognize that that is going to be inconsistent with a singular worldview.
@ Kinoko – For someone not trying to invalidate trauma, you’re doing a pretty good job of it. If a character is being abusive, others are 100% justified in being angry with that character and going around going ‘Well, yeah, but it’s not as bad as X abusive action’ is both unhelpful and irrelevant and saying ‘well they’re not so bad’ or ‘they’re not as shitty as they’re made out to be’ is downright dismissive and a crappy thing to say. Linda is exactly as shitty as people say, as evidenced by the things she does in this story and whether or not she’s as bad as other abusive parents doesn’t matter. That’s got nothing to do with whether or not she’s overall a good person (or whether you can be a good person). It has to do with whether or not she does abusive things to her kids and she does.
“I love you, so I’m going to withhold the money for your unsuitable friend’s unnecessary surgery.” I suppose that she does love her daughter. BUT.
Water is necessary for life, but if it’s water mixed with poison? Run right the hell away. Even if it’s only a tiny amount of poison, so it’ll just make you sick and not kill you. And the person who wants you to drink that water? May love you, but they’re really, really, really bad at it and must repent and change their ways. But I bet Linda never does…
I liken it to Azalea Honey (Sometimes called Mad Honey) bc that’s how my mom’s abuse tastes to me (I use taste metaphors a lot): Super sweet on the surface, but threaded through it is the poison of the flower it comes from. You’ll survive a spoonful and probably a whole jar; but the more you have the less stable the world around you becomes as the psychedelic effects (of mental abuse and gaslighting) kick in, and in some cases, Azalea Honey has been known to kill the people who eat it.
I suppose it is the duty of parents to care for their children. But not abusing them, teaching them good things, loving them are what make good parents. Seeing Linda and Sal’s dynamic here reminds me of my childhood where only i knew of the abuse and no one else would believe me. I have no patience with shitty parents.
Manipulative bullshit should not be excused “because love”, if you really love any person, let alone your child, you shouldn’t feel the need to force them to do what you want.
Unfortunately, in western society, people tend to see love as an overriding redeeming factor, to the point that all an abuser has to say is “I’m doing this because I love them.” and they’ll IMMEDIATELY have a sometimes substantial portion of the population agreeing with them!
Her actions were coming from a place of love.
I guess that makes it okay.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/01-to-those-whod-ground-me/sweetie/
“I’m no fan of Naomi but her actions are coming from a place of love and concern as well as not so subtle homophobia. She’s still a mom who has provided a home and cared for Ethan for most of his life.”
Does this statement seem appropriate to you? Does any part of it seem reasonable, given the full context of what you know about the characters involved?
Straight up it does not matter that Linda is not abusive towards Sal the way that Blaine or Ross are towards Amber and Becky, respectively. It does not matter that the two of them never had a knife fight in the parking lot or that Sal’s life was ever threatened due to Linda’s actions. Defending her in this way because she’s “not as bad” is straight up fucking bullshit. Abuse is not a competition. Linda doesn’t get a free pass because she never tried to shoot up Sal’s school or beat her daughter or send her son to collect blackmail material on her.
Linda raised Sal in her house for 13 years. That’s a bare minimum duty for a parent. Ross did that. Blaine did that. Sir did that. That doesn’t mean shit. Does Linda love Sal, in her own way? Sure. That doesn’t mean that the way she parents, even if it has love behind it, still isn’t shitty. Clearly, the way she has raised her children has affected them negatively. I mean, this very moment is probably the catalyst for Sal robbing TWO convenience stores.
No one’s saying that Linda’s the most evil and abusive of the parents, but she’s still a fucking shitty parent, even if it “wasn’t that bad”.
It’s genuinely really offensive to lessen the effect an abusive parent has had on their child just because it wasn’t “as bad” as what other abusive parents have done. Please, reflect upon this.
100% this.
There’s not a limited supply of “shitty abusive parent” titles. We don’t need to worry about saving them for only the worst 5%.
This. Thank you. I was still trying to figure out how to put it into words and you said it with “abuse is not a competition”. It is all terrible. There really isn’t a wasn’t that bad because all that does is make the children from those situations feel like maybe they weren’t abused and maybe there is something wrong with them. Linda isn’t the most evil but she’s still and evil word that rhymes with witch.
As others have said, emotional abuse still leaves scars and can do some serious psychological damage, which is just as relevant to a person’s overall health as physical damage.
I have a chronic illness that causes daily pain. I also suffer from depression and anxiety, some of which was the result of an emotionally toxic family member, and a well-meaning family member that did harm even with the “best intentions.” I don’t view my physical pain as worse or more important than my psychological pain. I can’t be a healthy, productive, happy person without treating BOTH.
Who are the top 5? Blaine, Toedad (I genuinely don’t remember his name and don’t care to look it up), and Carol are up there. Who else aside from Linda? I guess Joe’s dad and Billie’s mom aren’t particularly good either, but I think Linda has at least one of those beaten in terms of awfulness.
She might be in the top five actuallyy. I was thinking of Clint, Blaine, Carol, Ross, Ethan’s mom, and I swear there was one more but I’m blanking. Joe’s dad not great though. Linda’s in the top 10 for sure though.
I wish I wasn’t so terrible with names. It is this post that reminded me that Toedad is named Ross. I have no honest clue who Clint and Carol are – although, if I had to guess, I’d go with “Ruth’s Grandpa” and “Joyce’s Mom”.
If not – Ruth’s Grandpa should be on the list.
Ruth’s grandfather and Joyce’s mother, yes. I would definitely put Blaine and Toedad and Clint at the top three spots – especially since we already know all three of them have pulled this exact shit on the kids in their care as well. (Blaine and ‘I paid for this dorm room’ and Clint referring to Ruth’s RAdom as ‘his investment’ and using Howard as a hostage, Toedad needs no refresher.)
But this puts Linda currently at the peak of the Bad Mother List (until we see Carol again, anyway – this is entirely in line with her way of doing things as well,) because it’s such a huge control move. She’s extorting a thirteen-year-old to keep her from seeing a dear friend who’s been completely exemplary this whole time, who’s badly injured, and using that injury as a sign she’s ‘unsuitable company’ for Sal.
If Sal had acquiesced, this wouldn’t have been the only time Linda did it. Even now, I’m seriously worried she could and will pull it again. (Just as an example: ‘As soon as you switch majors to premed.’ Or ‘that girl’s clearly nothing compared to Dorothy. You can do better.’)
This strip is designed to be horrific the same way Toedad pulling the gun is. It’s the point at which we the audience see just how irredeemable this character is, because it puts all the previous implications into text. Toedad’s still a class of his own, but this is another way to control a child with another kind of threat, and Linda’s so completely blasé about it. And that part is what terrifies and enrages me.
Let me just say I’m not convinced Ethan’s mom is worse than Linda. Sure, she’s horribly homophobic, but Linda is horribly racist, towards her own daughter and her daughter’s only friend, and I feel Linda’s methods of abuse are just as bad or worse.
Or maybe it’s just that Sal was in a worse situation to begin with, since she was feeling guilty for Marcie’s injury… and anyway when your best friend suffers an injury like that and has a debt like that, what kind of friend would Sal be if she abandoned her like her mom wanted? And what does taking the money away say? Sal wasn’t gonna use the money for anything until she had enough anyway. She was trying very hard to be a good person, to do the right thing by the right ways, and her mom just took it all away. Money is symbolic, usually it simbolizes the kid’s ability to achieve things on their own, to save up and have control over something, and some independence, but in this case it also meant trying to be a good person and a good friend. Linda just said she would give it back if only Sal would abandon her friend, her loyalty and her goals. It’s like saying “hey, kid, you actually have no control over anything, your values are all worthless, the only way you will ever be accepted is if you give up on being a good person”
Ethan’s mom, the homophobe with a gay son, is up there
Linda is as shitty as she seems. She might* not be as shitty as Blaine Nd Toedad because she’s not violent** but she’s just as shitty as she seems.
*might
** yet/as far as we know
Hank’s come around. Barring him, uhhh, Dorothy’s parents and Dina’s are good.
…Amber’s mom is alright, I guess?
yeah stacy hasnt done anything awful yet *waits until someone replies with recipes*
2 cups (12-oz. pkg.) NESTLÉ® TOLL HOUSE® Semi-Sweet Chocolate Morsels, divided
1/2 cup (1 stick) butter or margarine, cut into pieces
3 large eggs
1 1/4 cups all-purpose flour
1 cup granulated sugar
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
1/4 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 cup chopped nuts
oven to 350° F. Grease 13 x 9-inch baking pan.
MELT 1 cup morsels and butter in large, heavy-duty saucepan over low heat; stir until smooth. Remove from heat. Stir in eggs. Stir in flour, sugar, vanilla extract and baking soda. Stir in remaining 1 cup morsels and nuts. Spread into prepared baking pan.
BAKE for 18 to 22 minutes or until wooden pick inserted in center comes out slightly sticky. Cool completely in pan on wire rack. Cut into bars.
I recommend nixing the nuts and melting both cups of chocolate. It’s delicious
Ah, an old classic! Good choice.
Stacey’s made a couple mistakes (like thinking Amber’s mental illness was just low blood sugar) but overall she’s well intentioned and kind to Amber and we’ve seen no hints of abuse from her. On the contrary, we know she risked her life escaping abuse with Amber (leaving is the most likely time a victim is murdered).
Come to think of it, how does Amber get enough calories to maintain healthy blood sugar and maintain an extremely active second personality?
Maybe she keeps a packet of M&Ms in her belt?
AG’s always prepared for everything!
M&Ms? What is that? You must be referring to those AG-branded sugar-coated chocolate Justice Tablets!
Carla’s parents seem solid, and . . . does Maggie count? Mike’s parents and Galasso seem neutral in this timeline, though it might just be we haven’t seen much of them.
Hell her parents made her a toy for her favourite show since it didn’t have any merchandise. That’s above and beyond.
Well she is banging Joe’s dad so I wouldn’t give her a complete pass.
[/sarcasm]
Well intentioned and not actively harmful, but a poor judge of character and easily manipulated. An abuse victim herself.
True, though we haven’t seen Richard actually be bad to Stacy, and if anything, seems to be the opposite. of course, Joe isn’t convinced Richard won’t fall back on old ways and cheat on her.
I don’t think Richard is abusive – other than the cheating and the lies and all the other crap that goes along with that.
And I think it’s more that Joe doesn’t even have a moment’s doubt that Richard will cheat on her, probably sooner rather than later.
We are looking at university students in the middle of a term. Young adults who are supposed to be taking their first steps away from parental dependence.
So good parental figures will show up in phone calls and fond memories, like when Carla talked about her parents. They will probably come to campus only on the odd scheduled visit, like when we met Dorothy’s and Dina’s parents in 2013 – unless their child really needs them, like when we met Stacy.
Bad parental figures will show up in traumatic or otherwise unpleasant flashbacks, like with Amber’s dad and Sal’s mom. If they come to campus, it won’t be limited, it will be whenever they feel like injecting themselves into their child’s life – like we have seen with Toedad and Blaine.
It’s no surprise to me the latter get more screen time, but it doesn’t mean they’re all that’s out there.
Not-completely-shitty parental figures of DoA, in no particular order:
– Haruka and Ryou Saruyama
– Reno and Falyn Snow
– Deborah and Jeremiah Keener
– The Ruttens
– Stacy Brannon*
– Hank Brown**
– Leslie Bean***
* Even if she’s not great at it.
** Bless him he’s at least trying.
*** The closest Becky’s had to a good parental figure since her mom passed
@Needfuldoer it’s sad that I have no clue who your talking about. Who are these again?
In order: Dina’s parents, Sierra’s parents (?), Dorothy’s parents, Carla’s parents, Amber’s mum, Joyce’s dad, and, lastly, the gender studies teacher Becky is currently living with.
All correct! (I had to look most of the names up on the wiki. Hank’s easy because King of the Hill reference, and Leslie was a main character in Shortpacked and her name’s also a pun.)
Jesus Christ, you’d think a parent would be PROUD that their children is being selfless and trying to collect money for a friend’s surgery.
Linda is acting as if this Sal’s weed money, not painstakingly slow fundraiser for another child in need
what the fuck Linda, what the fuck
their *child, not children
This.
If I had a kid who did something like this, my heart would burst with pride and I’d say I’d done a damn fine job as a parent.
Dollars to donuts she’d be proud if WALKY did it.
If Walky had done it, it would have been an extra credit project fot school. Or a boy scout equivalent thing.
Linda would have been actively raising money for him herself too.
Then Walky would admit he’d been skimming of the top to by himself stuff.
Linda, would brush aside any guilt he felt, tell him he still raised a lot, and take him out to by a really expensive gift for himself stuff.
In Linda’s mind, Sal could not have gotten that money any method other than something nefarious and unspeakable, because that is everything Sal’s friends and activities represent to her.
I remember a review of a punk rock album for an NPR program probably twenty years ago, and the man reviewing said “never before has anybody made ‘I love you’ sound like a THREAT.”
Tonight it’s been done TWICE.
Ugh. That’s just… wow.
She ain’t Blaine. She ain’t Ross. She’s probably not even Naomi Siegel bad, but she’s pretty damn bad.
I will say, though, that she was moved into this setting in a way that captures a lot of Linda’s… less than admirable qualities from Walkyverse and keeps them intact, while being less Gendo Ikari about it.
Gendo Ikari is actually very interesting to me, as I’ve been on an Evangelion binge the last few weeks. According to EoE, he actually did love his son, and most of his actions through the series were because he was afraid that if he let Shinji in he would hurt him, not realizing how much he hurt the boy by NOT letting him in.
According to some reviews I’ve read, Gendo is the logical endpoint that Shinji would end up at if he doesn’t get some FUCKING THERAPY.
Other noticeable things: According to sidebooks, Gendo used to get in a lot of fights in his youth and had terribly abusive parents (Another reason he actually feared getting close to Shinji. The fear of being just as horrible a parent as his own), and the reason he got so attached to Yui (Even taking her last name) and the reason her death hit him so hard was because she was the first (and apparently only) person to ever love him.
(Ignore meme.-dialogue, focus on face body language and face)
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/577/739/13b.png
I see what you mean, the meme language is still hilarious, though.
Wow, Linda really is a grade A conga, isn’t she? Saying your child can have their money when they develop healthy relationships? What fucking right do you have to judge Linda? You know nothing about Marcie and have made it clear you never want to know anything about her.
This is infuriating to an extreme level, knowing that Linda is also responsible for making Sal so desperate she would want to rob a convenience store. She might have already been on that path, but taking her money sure as hell accelerated the process. I said it yesterday and I’ll say it again, I hope after college she cuts her parents out of her life entirely.
I hope that stuff like this is why McHenry noped right out of a relationship with her, and Linda inevitably goes to him to get Sal expelled for getting better grades than her golden boy, he says “screw you” and gets the girl some scholarships so she can keep going to college.
But don’t you understand? Linda will KNOW that Walky’s bad grades are because Sal has introduced him to bad elements, so getting Sal expelled is for best for both their sakes. Walky can excel without Sals bad influence, and Sal can be back under parental guidance until she learns to obey and not make friends that Linda hasn’t approved first.
After this I’m now in ‘Walky, RUN’ mode. I feel confident Sal will get out of financial dependence as soon as she possibly can – she managed to save $700 on her own at thirteen, she must have some kind of income since she has a motorcycle and keeps it fueled, and she knows she can never ever trust her parents again – but Walky doesn’t know Linda will do this, nor has he been established as paying close attention to his finances. And someone who pulls a financial ultimatum with one kid who has friends she disapproves of can’t be trusted not to do it a second time with the other.
ah but there’s another problem. I don’t know about all manipulative parents necessarily, but in my experience and from the experiences I’ve heard about, parents will generally keep going the manipulation route through previously trained responses in the children up until the golden child straight up yolo’s because there’s too much stress and they (parents) feel like they are no longer in control of the situation. On top of that, golden children aren’t entirely dumb, they do realize some things happen, but they’re also trained to follow and obey by the time they’re Walky’s age, so that knowledge just feeds the fears their parents have cultivated that keep them in check. The kid literally probably can’t run without getting some kind of outside therapeutic help, even if from just friends, in order to retrain and relearn that parents are not almighty and the biggest threat given his emotional density and mental development so far.
That being said, should Walky yolo it, the snap of his mother’s sudden change in treatment of him most likely will be the final push to get him to realize that she is toxic af, and he will be well on his way to actually running and possibly changing for the better. But that’s just a theory; a Willis’ psychology theory
Yeah, my experience is secondhand knowledge from the three of my familial Blaine’s children who got out of there and the two that are pretty clearly stuck there until he dies, and that’s that if a manipulator like this wants to keep you here they are very good at doing so. (And even after years of therapy, my parent still has issues and guilt over keeping their relationship strained.) I’m not entirely certain my aunt and uncle would keep the distance from him they do if they still had family in that household besides him, and he hadn’t acted completely beyond the pale one of the first times my aunt visited with a grandchild.
tbh you’re right unless the hypothetical family still existing in the household didn’t feed the cycle by rationalizing his actions and/or accepting it as him “just being him”. Trying to drag my gf out of her situation, but I’m afraid she’s about as stuck as the two you’ve mentioned are until one of them (her or the abusive manipulator) leaves.
Yeah, it’s one of those things where I don’t think the younger kids and his wife are likely to get much independence until and unless he dies. Which is a thing that makes me kind of sad but they’re adults and have said they don’t want contact with the older siblings, so. It is what it is.
Best of luck to you and your girlfriend. Shit is rough.
/thank you
I find that what happens is usually the manipulative parent will also manipulate the golden child into believing the abused child is doing things to justify the abuse. Walky’s pointed yelling about how good he was being? That probably wasn’t directed at Sal, but Linda. He in some way KNOWS what’s going on, and knows that if he does something to displease his mom, he’ll be treated like Sal. So going along with his parents is both self-preservation and successful manipulation into believing Sal deserved her abuse. He’s only just now realizing that his parents did fucked up shit.
Ooh, this is an excellent point. Now that I’m thinking about it (because from experience, that’s EXACTLY what manipulative parents do), Walky’s behavior there makes a lot more sense. The golden child in my family learned to always make himself look like the good one just to make sure he’d never be treated badly like his sister. (Who was also doing her damnedest to make him look good for the same reason, but that’s another story.)
Is conga a replacement word like bongo? I don’t really want to type potential slurs to find out.
Yes, it replaces a word that also begins with ‘c’.
Yes, it is replacing a 4 letter c word that ends in unt. I’m sure you can put 2 and 2 together to figure out from here.
By my life, this is my lady’s hand: these be her very C’s,
her U’s, and her T’s; and thus makes she her great P’s.
https://www.vox.com/cards/shakespeare-innuendoes-embarrassed-to-read-aloud/her-very-cs-her-us-and-her-ts
Yes. Yes, she will.
Wow what the actual fuck Linda. That is insanely fucked up. And Charles??? You’re not going to even say a thing??? WHAT!
Come on, Charles… what’s the matter with you!?!?!?
I’m told that you’d be surprised how much you can let go, not react to, make excuses for, and even plain ignore in the name of “a quiet life”.
sometimes it does feel like the path of least resistance
… Holy fucking shit balls.
Yeah, so if you need me I’ll be COMBUSTING WITH RAGE. I can’t even word about how utterly wrong this is.
I have some words, but most of them are filtered out here so it comes out not nearly as biting as I would like.
I would also like to say this situation is unbelieveable but I have seen it happen to some of my cousins. Granted they never got the money back, so it is slightly different.
Nah, Sal ain’t gonna get the money back either
Let’s be honest, neither did Sal. The closest to getting her money back is probably it being used post knife-through-hand incident…
Yeah, I’m thinking right now of my biological grandfather. To my knowledge he never pulled this specific scenario on his kids, but between the horror stories I do know and what little we have of the financial situation with his last wife and their kids, I would not put something like this past him. He definitely took things from my great-grandparents’ house that were left to other people when they died. I hate him with the cold, seething hate of someone who never had any real contact because his children all decided they wouldn’t expose their kids to his shit but knows enough as an adult to see where he hurt people I love and hate him for it.
When a character reminds me of that vampire, that’s a sign they’re pretty damned irredeemable.
Don’t worry, Linda’s just a comic character. She didn’t really do that. Because she doesn’t exist.
Yes, but people like her do exist. Comic or no.
She doesn’t. Unfortunately, her tactics do.
I, too, titter with amusement whenever one of the common rout wildly overreacts to a trivial piece of fiction, to the point of such histrionics as posting a comment in a comment section specifically devoted to discussing people’s feelings about that piece of fiction. Thankfully in this instance you were there to remind them (very generously on your part, given that they are a total stranger about whose life you know nothing) that there is a difference between fiction and reality, that online comic strips are fictional, and that it’s therefore completely inappropriate and ridiculous to think or feel anything about them that cannot be expressed with a mere smirk. I definitely speak for everyone with taste when I say how grateful we are that you stepped in when you did and issued such a vitally necessary and, above all, kind bit of reassurance.
I know I am. Linda doesn’t exist. Boy, what a relief. Let me join my special thanks with LovelyMonsters’.
What must it be like to live in a head that fails to understand fiction is a way of processing the human condition.
Don’t worry, Regalli isn’t actually combusting with rage. They’re just engaging in metaphoric hyperbole to express how upsetting this behavior is, real or not.
Fuck, I hate Walky now because he doesn’t hate her enough.
Walky has a fundamentally different relationship with his parents and has no reason tp hate his mom. Remember this is all from Sal’s perspective. To her, Linda’s the bad guy. We don’t actually get to see Walky’s perspective on this or Linda’s for that matter. While I don’t really like Linda from what I’ve seen of her or approve of her opinion and actions here, she’s far from horrible in my opinion.
Then you need to practice recognizing abuse flags, because it is the flipping U.N. in this household.
(+1, Stealing this phrasing)
even without it being from sal’s pov, her actions are actually manipulative and very mentally harmful even as individual actions. If Sal were an adult at this point, it would not be hard to say that the taking of 700 dollars is wrong and forcing Sal to feel like she has no control over her own life. For a minor, this is something even worse. They generally usually have no income, or it is an amount so paltry that 700 dollars is no amount to sneeze at for them. They are also very much dependent on their parents financially and mentally/emotionally. This is stringing the child along and telling them that they have no control over their life, since their choices and possessions are forfeit to the parents’ will. Maybe Linda isn’t the parent stealing the money their kids scrabbled and scraped to save up, just to shoot up at 9pm, but this still has the same effect. 13 is about when kids are learning to become responsible for themselves (or at least, kind of trying to. They’re starting to really figure out who they are as people) and to teach them that they have no control over their lives can set them up for failure, since they can resort to pretty damning things in order to try and feel some control or at least like they had choices. It’s not just kids that will do this, I’ve met adults who do the same. It’s horrible to lose control over your life, and at 13, financial control is about one of the only real things that you can control since you may not even know who you are yet.
To top it off, Sal was saving towards a goal. Her mother literally said “that’s a poop goal” and took it away from her. That’s crippling for an adult, but for a child? Linda is horrible in this singular moment, at the very least. She knows what she’s doing to her kid. She doesn’t care about the lasting effects. That’s the definition of horrible parenting right there, knowing you messing your kid up and not caring so long as you’re happy. An even worse parent would try to delude the kids (even the unrelated to the situation children) into thinking that it was fine without addressing the fun little problems-with-trust-in-humanity side effects when the the kids are grown, which most likely, Linda has done.
She stole money from a child that was meant for another child’s *medical expenses*. I know the bar for horrible here has been set really damn high by Toedad and Blaine, but Linda Walkerton is currently doing her best to at least peek over the top of that bar.
Who is horrible, in your opinion? I mean, you must have a pretty low bar!
Hating Walky because he doesn’t hate Linda is fairly irrational. In Walky’s eyes, Sal was a troublemaker and his mom was just being a mom. It is only now that he is older that he realizes more and more that wasn’t actually the case. So expecting him to suddenly 180 on his views of his mother is unrealistic.
Abusers do a great job of being kind to the people they don’t abuse, and what Linda is doing to Sal definitely qualifies as emotional abuse. She doesn’t have to lay a hand on her, she can tear Sal down with words and actions alone.
Yeah, I’m not mad at Walky. There are things I get mad at young Walky for, like throwing his sister under the bus (albeit, probably unintentionally) and for tuning out her problems when she tried to talk to him, but there was nothing he could have done here, even if he were trying to help.
Another take on Walky is that his extreme insecurities about his relationship to his parents and his need to always project his childish-but-perfect-persona is that he knows very well how conditional his parents love is, and what happens to a child that steps out of line.
He doesn’t hate Linda because he is busy being fudging terrified of her.
This.
And given this? Yeah, he should be.
Again, with the ultimatum? This is extortion. And it says that if Linda doesn’t like what you want to do with your money, whether that’s help a friend or save for an apartment somewhere she doesn’t like, she will take it until you bow to her demands. I am fudging terrified of Linda for Walky.
I wonder if Walky’s “lovable goofball who doesn’t pay attention much and gets treated well as long as he doesn’t fail them” persona is as much a reaction to his toxic household as Sal’s angry loner facade. He’s clever enough to realise his father keeps his head down and manages to get through, so he doesn’t challenge her, obeys the rules, jokes when he’s obeying them and Sal is not (because he does love his sister and doesn’t want her to get into trouble and trys to deflect) all because it’s easier than standing up for himself again’st an opponent he considers an unstoppable force when roused.
How to you not get smashed by an unstoppable force? Don’t get in its way.
I’m sure he uses that persona as a way to protect himself from his mother.
Which is ironic because what she THINKS she wants in her son is confident and ambitious, but what she GETS with her particular brand of tyranny is malleable and underhand.
Way to fudge up both of your kids, Charles and Linda.
Oh, that rather happens. Like, my mother isn’t anywhere near the same league as Linda, but the basic idea is very familiar. I feel like there’s a reason that both my sister and myself have grown to have the personal initiative of a dead log. Just don’t make waves and don’t rile her up, and things go well.
Sorry about that. It is REALLY hard to get out from the shadow of an overbearing parent.
There is a ten+ pages machine-written letter from Franz Kafka to his father (characteristically, never sent) hitting much the same notes.
woahhhhh i knew linda was horrible but i DID NOT COMPREHEND how far and how fast we were plunging down Please-Just-Set-Me-On-Fire-For-The-Good-of-the-Timeline Ravine.
Sweet jegus I have knew respect for what good a job Sal did of raising HERSELF, all things considered.
I mean she’s a fuggen mess but consider the alternatives.
The more we see of it, the more does it look like robbing a convenience store at age 13 was a perfectly rational choice for Sal. It got her out of the house.
Yeah, and Linda actually appears to have wrote her off permanently for it. She doesn’t pay any attention to Sal, but she wasn’t demanding Sal come to the family dinner with Dorothy and the Keeners and play nice to make them look good.
And the fact that Linda’s first scenes completely ignoring Sal look like a good thing now is just painful.
This definitely explains why she wanted to get caught. It was to get back at her mother.
I really really want to know more about the “incident”. Why Marcie was injured and what role sal played in all this. I wonder whether she actually is right to try to keep her kid away from people who live a dangerous life. I’ve always wondered how a laid-back girl like marcie got into a fight that serious.
Sal didn’t object when Linda said that marcies family were criminals. Hm. Do we know something about her parents?
Not agreeing with her methods here. Just wondering if she does have a point concerning dangerous people around marcie.
Pretty certain their main crime is being in the US without a Green card – there is a decent chance that also means they’re poor and may live in a less than affluent neighbourhood.
Not really the sort of friend who’ll encourage Sal to whitewash herself…
Pretty much this. Look at the things Linda actually holds against Marcie
– Who she lives with (not her fault)
– Where she lives (not her fault)
– Her immigration status (not her fault)
– Her disability (not her fault)
Linda’s being complete shit here. Sal seems to think the fights SHE got in were to blame, so it’s not too far a stretch to think it was someone Sal was in a fight with rather than Marcie’s parents or other friends being to blame.
Not confirmed though, right?
To my knowledge, there are houses in USA where illegals live in a huge amount, mostly because they are cheap and the owners don’t ask questions. What if the family lives in such a house? While most illegals are keen on keeping a low profile, organized crime also is a thing. What if some really dangerous people live next to marcie? What if marcie and sal got caught up in some kind of fight between them?
This would explain why sal found people who rob a store with her. I mean, 13year olds usually don’t really know many robbers. It could also explain marcies wish to be a police officer.
It would also explain Lindas behaviour in the last strips. I feel that bigotry is a way too easy explanation for all this. Most Charakters Willis draws are more complex than that.
I’ll wait until I know more about all this before I judge Linda. I mean, she’s pushy and has no concept of boundaries at all, which isn’t good, but I’m unsure about the degree of shittiness she has. This could be a try to protect her daughter.
We’ve seen Linda all the time and a lot of her personality is wrapped up in bigotry. She didn’t like Marcie from day one with no inkling of her parents around. And if Sal and Marcie got caught up in a fight between unrelated criminals, I could see Sal having survivor’s guilt, especially since she’s a very protective person, but it wouldn’t explain why she’s so sure it was HER fault it happened and why she felt it was so important she promised to personally swear off fighting. This scenario could be hypothetically possible, but incredibly unlikely in universe and out of universe it doesn’t make sense at all because the whole point of this particular plot thread is that Linda and Charles’ bigotry ruined their relationship with their daughter. That doesn’t make sense at all if they’re actually right.
Because she’s protective and as such might have escalated things? Remember how she got angry at ag for escalating stuff and therefore endangering others? Could be projection. Most people would have thought about ag endangering herself when she ran towards a lunatic with a gun. But not sal. I’ve always wondered about that..
As I said, I’ll wait. Sal definitely is in need of protection right now. The question is protection from whom. Might be Linda, might be someone around marcie, might be both or neither. I’ll wait for an answer to that question until I pass judgement.
….We just saw Linda being extremely emotionally abusive. There is no ‘might be’ here. Sal absolutely needs to get away from Linda. This also ignores that Linda’s been shown time and again to be racist, including not liking Marcie when she was five and before Linda would have known anything about her parents or neighbourhood. Considering the story trajectory and the characters involved, it’s more likely that this is Linda’s racism talking, especially when she just spewed a ton of racism, classism, and ableism. It being some sort of organized crime incident they were caught up in undermines the plot point about Linda. It also doesn’t sound much like the information we DO have about the Diazes – Marcie seems to have gotten her mostly non-violent way of thinking from her mom. There’s also the fact she’s blaming all of this on Marcie and if your scenario were true, that would be even worse because it throws (even more) victim blaming on top of it. And if Linda’s so concerned about Sal because oh, Marcie’s really living with criminals, maybe she should call CPS already. Marcie being safe is more important than the Diazes getting to stay in the States. At this point, we have more than enough evidence Linda’s a shit mother, even if this is true though, and so the point about Sal needing to be away from her stands.
I’m speaking about protecting her from getting involved into a robbery. While she definitely is a shitty parent, that alone doesn’t make you commit severe crimes.
She does have a lot of prejudices, yes, but that doesn’t mean she isn’t right about the people surrounding marcie. Sal does slip into something horrible within a few months. And if she got into that circle through the people around marcie, she does have a point.
Calling child service would most likely end in her being deported. The family is illegal. And depending on where they came from, that can be way worse. There are things she could have done for marcie in that scenario (not that she’d bother to actually help her), but child service probably would have been a bad idea.
However, she also didn’t call the police and got them out. That would have been an option. That’s not the kind of racism she has. That’s another thing that doesn’t match for me. She’s not openly hostile against coloured people without reason, her racism is more subtle.
Except this scenario you’re spinning has no evidence outside of Linda’s racism. The sum of the evidence that there are criminals involved is that the Diaz’s are (likely) undocumented and poor. Everything else you’ve got is pure fantasy.
We’ve even seen an starter to stealing from convenience stores that isn’t some Latino street gang, but the much more respectable (white) looking Asher.
It absolutely can. Lots of juvenile criminals get involved via lashing out at crappy situations.
Yeah, I don’t think the takeaway from this story is gonna be ‘And it turned out Linda’s racism is right!’ Somehow, that doesn’t sound like Willis. There’s absolutely no evidence for this except Linda not liking them. Heck, we don’t even know Asher lives near Marcie – for all we know, he’s another kid who goes to Sal’s school. Heck, neither of them seemed to even like Asher much until Sal took the cigarette (which A) Has been established as her mother’s influence, not his and B) Was only after she confirmed it wasn’t stolen). And if anybody’s gonna lead to the robbery, it’s probably gonna be Asher. As for the fight that stole Marcie’s voice, I’m not sure why we should suspect some racism-affirming Latino gang as opposed to the kid we’ve ALREADY SEEN Sal getting in a fight and escalating with – Leland.
It would certainly get her parents deported. I’m not sure what the protocol is with undocumented children in CPS cases, but as I’m sure we’re all too aware, it’s possible for undocumented children to end up in US foster care (and kidnapped via ‘adoption’ which the courts have shown they won’t allow parents to even see them never mind regain custody).
And you’re right. Linda could have done a lot for Marcie in that scenario. She didn’t. So I repeat – if she’s so damn concerned about Marcie, she needs to do something about it.
Linda was openly hostile about Marcie when she was five years old. And we’ve STILL yet to see her speak to Sal without yelling/being angry, including when Sal was five and absolutely did not warrant the yelling and swearing she was doing.
Yes. Sure. Still, it’s possible. And I’m not a fan of prejudging people before I know all facts. And judging by marcies current living conditions, her family isn’t exactly rich.
I don’t know where you are, but 13year old criminals are usually organised crime here. Not acts of rebellion. And I’ve never heard of a 13year old robber here. Perhaps it’s different in us but here, that’s basically unheard of. No matter how bad your parents are. And there are a lot parents who are a lot worse than Linda.
I’d actually like it if there was more to this story than just those black-and-white characters. I like complex characters. Life isn’t black and white in my experience. We’ll see.
Well at least she didn’t report her parents. That would have ended the friendship and she’d have her will.
We currently are in sals memories from her childhood. And she’s remembering her road to becoming a criminal. I doubt we’ll see any happy moments. And yes, Linda is a bad mother who doesn’t know how to handle her own child. Still, I believe her in the last panel. She does care about Sal and she is convinced that there is a danger somewhere around marcie. I’m curious whether she’s right about this. We do know that she’ll meet or already has met some dangerous people.
I can’t even follow what you think is going on here. Sal and Marcie got in a fight with a Latino street gang? Which somehow ended with Sal unhurt and Marcie with a strange injury and no apparent police involvement? I guess it could just have been unarmed young teen hangers on of the actual street gang, cause tough as Sal is, that wouldn’t have turned out well.
And now Sal’s hooking up with that gang to turn to her life of crime? Why?
It’s not more likely she’s been influenced by the very white character we saw introduced for no other apparent purpose? Where it was emphasized that he was stealing?
And I guess the part you want not to “black and white” is that all the hints throughout the comic about Linda’s racism and crappy parenting are red herrings and she’s just rightly concerned about Sal’s rebellious ways and the influence of dangerous people like the Diaz family on her?
Seriously? Marcie not being rich does not make her family criminals. We have no evidence of that other than Linda’s racism and classism. The fact we haven’t met them yet means it’s hypothetically possible, but incredibly unlikely.
Seriously? 13 year olds do very much get into crime – mostly petty crime, I’ll grant, but yes, more serious ones like assault, robbery, etc. do happen. That why juvenile detention exists.
You want a complex character? Sal’s right there. You want complexity from Linda? Check out her relationships with Walky (who she DOES actually care about, but has wreaked havoc on his self esteem) or Billie (who she’s basically taken in as another daughter because her own parents don’t care about her, despite Linda being a shit mother to her own daughter). That complexity is probably not going to come in the form of ‘Linda’s right and the Diazes are dangerous criminals/live with dangerous criminals’.
And the fact Linda didn’t report them doesn’t make that either she’s incredibly emotionally abusive to her daughter (my read) or treating her badly while ignoring the fact a child she knows is in a bad situation (if you’re right and Marcie’s in a dangerous spot) better.
That dangerous person was a white kid, not someone from a ‘latino street gang’ who engaged in shoplifting and underage smoking. Which isn’t great, but are hardly the worst things in the world and are not in fact, unheard of crimes from juveniles. And regardless of whether or not Linda loves Sal, it’s meaningless because she does emotionally abusive things and uses her love as a weapon.
” And I’m not a fan of prejudging people before I know all facts.”
er, kinda seems like you’re doing that to Marcie’s family right here.
No. Even if we allowed that she would block Sal’s donation as a “concerned parent” (which I do not) – She stole money raised in a crowdfunding campaign. That is literal theft, from strangers, from a charitable effort.
She is a thief. She is a bad parent. She is a bad person.
My hypothesis is that Sal got into a fight, Marcie intervened and maybe got stabbed, or at least punched in the throat. Of course, now I’ve put it into words, I’d say theres a 100% chance of that not being the case, but it fits what we know about the two kids and would explain Sal’s guilt over the incident.
Given Sal’s promise of “no more fights” I thought I was pretty clear that Sal got into a fight and that somehow lead to Marcie’s injury.
I’m confiscating this money until my daughter stops trying to help a friend get life improving surgery.
What? My daughter tried to rob two convenience stores?? After I withheld from her $700 she earned herself???
I can’t believe that Marcie made my daughter such a hooligan
The most important take away from all this is how nothing of this is Lindas fault in any way, shape or form
“I just can’t imagine what would make her think stealing is OK. Must be the friend she has I know nothing about aside from race/injury I’ve decided is a terrible influence.”
“I only stole from her, told her she was powerless, manipulated her into feeling like dirt and ordered her to abandon her friend as she didn’t make me look good.”
As you can see, I am a perfect parent. Just ask my other child. an emotionally unstable manchild with a deep rooted fear of failure but also deeply ingrained belief he shouldn’t stand out who’se had any ambition or independence ground out of him”
Geeze willis, you’re not pulling any punches on shitty parents any more are you…
Obviously I was right about her all along.
Today’s recommended reading –
Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts by Carol Tavris. A non-specialists intro to directed reasoning, behavioral economics and the cognitive tricks we use to convince ourselves that we always act properly.
Linda, wtfiwwy.
Linda…is hitting unpleasantly home for me. Wow. Was very much not expecting this level of emotional response, but here I am, suddenly 13 again and crying in bed.
That’s how you know it’s good writing. Willis, if this is one of those autobio moments in any way, I’m offering appropriate gestures of support.
yeah, same. That being said, though my mom could be something of a disciplinarian control freak at her worst moments, she was never cold. I always somehow knew deep down that when she said she did it out of love, she meant it. 15 years later, I still keep in contact with her, and we miss each other a lot (mom’s in Europe, I’m in Australia). I dunno, gang, am I too forgiving?
Oh, and btw, she’d never force an ultimatum like this. Knowing her, she’d offer to pull strings with her clients to help out.
You are describing a “Tiger Mom”. I have doubts about this style of parenting, but I did not experience it myself, so I can’t say if it’s good, bad, or indifferent. You sound unsure yourself.
I guess the question would be, would (or do) you use this style yourself?
Honestly, the only “extra” thing I’d expect from my child would be for them to learn *a* skill/vocation, be passionate about it, do it well enough to be self-sufficient, and to take pride in doing it well. Whether it’s playing piano, sculpture, Magic: The Gathering, or software engineering.
Anything beyond that is icing on the cake.
Different parenting styles work for different kids. If what your Mom did led to you becoming a healthy, functioning adult, if she has your back when you really need it, and if you know she would change her ways if it was hurting you, then being a disciplinarian is fine and you have a healthy loving parent-child relationship.
If you’re not *sure*, then, well, it could go either way.
This comment was a balm to this comic. So thank you. (Nothing to do with my mom, just liked this statement.)
Sympathy, and same.
yeah. *jedi hugs*
I’m too tired to have feelings about it this evening though. yay?
Everyone’s already said this too, but I am absolutely livid at Linda. Just… that’s so awful. I mean, Blaine and Toedad are also awful, OBVIOUSLY, but this is, I guess, more of the kind of parental awfulness that more people are personally familiar with? Like, not necessarily the “stealing large amounts of hard-earned, meant-to-be-spent-selflessly money from your child” bit, but just… this is so fucking abusive and I’m mad. (Which is exactly how I’m supposed to feel, but DAMN it.)
Also, I’m not saying that Sal’s later actions will be completely justified, but they’re striking me as more and more sympathetic with each strip of these flashbacks. Damn it, Linda, your daughter is just trying to be a good person (unlike you), so LET HER. (Also, is it any wonder Sal tends to act like she doesn’t care when this is what acting like she cared got her?)
Well that explains why Sal turned to store theft.
Linda only has herself to blame (and hell she’s too freaking shortsighted to see that).
that’s fucked dude
To be fair if probably be worried too if my thirteen year old daughter felt responsible for paying someone else’s medical bill
Sure, I’d be worried that she was trying to take on too much and would want to talk about reasonable limitations and other ways to try to help. Not accuse her of being a bad person and confiscating the money she has tried to gather to help her friend.
I don’t think Linda is worried in that sense. If she was worried, she wouldn’t have said the whole spiel about looking like a bad parent, and definitely would not have brought up the crap ton of issues regarding Marcie being a “bad friend to have”
There’s being worried about your child feeling responsible for paying someone else’s medical bill, and there’s being worried that your (black) daughter is caught up in a “bad crowd” because she’s friends with undocumented children and you’re not-so-subtly racist. Linda is clearly the latter, otherwise she would have had a conversation with Sal about trying to save up all the money for Marcie’s operation on her own. And not, you know, “stop being friends with Marcie, btw I’m taking money that you rightfully earned away until you make friends that I approve of”.
This comic can impress. God.
I hate Linda and I really hate her dad, just because HE CLEARLY FEELS BAD BUT ISN’T DOING ANYTHING. Like obviously Linda is worse but Jesus, dude, this comic is viscerally upsetting.
The powerlessness is really what’s hitting home for me. Parents who make their children feel this powerless—even outright saying, “No you won’t,” denying Sal even the slightest bit of agency in it all—are absolutely awful parents.
Extra points docked if they justify it with bullshit reasoning like “I love you” while blatantly ignoring threats from their children, because they assume their child unconditionally loves them. I know that as a child, I was afraid of situations like these, but was also likely to persuade myself that it was a challenge to actually make good on what I said and possibly more. She actively doesn’t believe her kid could be anything but what she believes them to be, and this could be so much more dangerous if Sal wasn’t actually a real sweetheart (e.g.: I once almost stabbed my brother in the eye with a fork when we were kids after he ignored two warnings from me. He closed his eyes and I stopped in time, he had a scrape on his eyelid for a week after that. If I were in Sal’s shoes, and any bit less trained to obey out of belief that my parents cared for my well being, Linda may have been the one to be held at knife point instead of Ethan.)
Hell, I’m getting the read that her DAD is also feeling powerless here. That has to suck majorly. Linda seems to have this household in a vice grip, and as a kid, when you know not even *other authority figures* can do shit to defend you… well, that’s not a happy place.
5:1 odds he’s being abused too, but yeah, this is horrifying from him.
Odds are he basically approves, but doesn’t like the confrontation.
fun fact: sal would hate her forever
I hope not. At some point I’d like Sal to stop caring about her mother. To be able to say completely genuinely “You mean nothing to me.” It’s the healthiest thing for Sal and the most appropriate punishment for Linda.
Yeah, that’s my hope, too. I want Sal and Walky to just reject Linda from their lives. She Does Not Matter.
Understandable. But you never stop having feelings about someone who profoundly hurt you for several years of your life. Whether you forgive them or not, whether you cut them out of your life or let them stay, whether you’re glad to be free or mourning the healthy relationship you never had with them, that damage stays with you for the rest of your life. It can heal, but those scars are always there, and you’re always gonna feel some kinda way about them.
True, and a very good point. It will impact her ability to trust and will always be a regret that she didn’t have a good upbringing. But I do want her to not hate her mother forever. Sal doesn’t need to carry that burden with her. I’d rather it morph into a disdain and the ability to just cut Linda out of her life.
Speaking as someone who probably will hate someone else forever, it’s less of a burden than you’d think. You can still move on with your life and have the other person be a complete non-factor and still hate them whenever they’re brought up.
Me too! I’m glad to see someone else in the hater group. Now that I’m out of Christianity, I kind of don’t understand what the problem is with hating someone. Hating people because they behave despicably, especially when they are in positions of power, seems kind of like . . . a natural and proportionate response.
I can get on board with this too. I was bullied constantly for two years in elementary school. It’s nowhere near as bad as being abused by a parent, but it left scars and I don’t think I’ll ever forgive them for how they treated me. And I’m ok with that. I’ve used that anger and pain to make myself who I am today. And for the most part I like who I am.
Actually that’s Walky saying that. It took me a while to realize that wasn’t Sal.
No, That’s Sal. Walky isn’t in this strip. Yeah, she looks a lot like him, but they are twins after all.
Oh, weird. I saw Walky in the tags earlier.
Of course Sal won’t hate Linda forever, neither of them are going to live forever. Everyone dies eventually. Eat Arby’s.
Thanks, Mike.
What a jabroni
…one of the biggest and most difficult steps of growing up is to stop viewing your parents as “Parents” and start viewing them as “People”.
It’s so easy to treat them as this Parental Authority Figure. Either because they’re an authority to be respected, or an authority that you hate and resent.
And, yeah, Sal’s mother is a fucking piece of trash (all this assuming that these are “actually how things happened” we’re not dealing with unreliable narrator situations, the blue tinted context makes me wonder a touch). As far as I’m concerned, she has no obligation or reason to make peace with her parents in any way.
But it’s just this bit that I’ve been thinking over with this part of the arc. Walky viewed his parents as parents to be loved unquestionably, and knowledge of the racism is shaking him out of that. But… I wonder if Sal views them as people…
I dunno. Just a weird tangent that’s been running through my mind. Certainly not the main thrust of this arc.
All flashbacks are blue, except the PTSD-triggered red ones.
As far as I can tell, there’s nothing in the flashbacks that’s been anymore unreliable than any other strip. Even the red panels.
We might see only one side of the story, with other perspectives left out – like the original scenes of the robbery from Amber/Ethan’s point of view, but the scenes have always been the real past. Nothing distorted, like you might get from a child’s memory.
I see no reason why we should doubt Sal’s flashback anymore than Amber’s or Mike’s. Sal’s not a proven unreliable narrator or a known liar.
Yeah, just put that in there to cover bases. The notion that there might be some Rashomon stuff going on (especially with how, um, massively racist and evil Sal’s mother is acting) isn’t impossible, felt like I should at least acknowledge that its in the realm of possibility.
I guess my problem with this is it seems people are only raising this possibility with Sal’s flashback. We didn’t have that problem when Amber or Mike had flashbacks. We had doubts about Mike’s intentions but not that the events had happened.
I think it’s because of how, well, horrifically vile Linda is acting here. It’s like, what’s she going to do next, punch the puppy Sal’s always wanted in front of her?
Granted, it’s a bit lower on the totem pole than a teacher physically striking kid!Mike, but it’s still kinda “woof, that’s just awful, there… is there something more nuanced here maybe?”, and it’s been a running theme with Linda, especially in these flashbacks.
Because while people like Linda are certainly realistic… there’s a part of many people that wants it not to be, that people with such hateful, racist mindsets have some sort of deep reason behind it. That maybe there’s some way to get them to not be awful people.
………I’m one of those people, and boy howdy, these last two years have been fucking shit for my liver.
Mind you, it’s been a running theme with all the abusive villains.
There’s always one strand of commenters switching instantly from “That’s not so bad.” to “That’s not realistic, too cartoonish”.
And another group going “Yeah, that was my life”.
Makes sense. I normally like to give the benefit of the doubt too, but I’m also a big believer in ‘If someone shows you they are a bigot/abuser/wilfully ignorant/a general asshole, believe them’, so that kinda tempers my goodwill a lot, especially lately.
Take care of your liver, you’re cool.
The thing here is that the critical ingredient for using a Unreliable Narrator in any kind of story is that you need it to be clear that there IS a narrator who might be unreliable, because without that it just looks like bad writing.
There’s been no narrator established here. This flashback is focusing on Sal and her side of things, but in the last present-day scene we saw her in she was explicitly refusing tell Joyce a story about her past.
We’ve also seen Willis do that kind of narrated flashback before, waaay back when Sarah was telling Joyce what happened with Dana. Even though a couple strips go without, the sequence started out with Sarah explicitly narrating it, and jumped back to the present where Sarah was telling the story to Joyce.
Yeah, it’s not clear to me that the blue flashbacks are explicitly someone’s memory rather than just using their memory as a narrative device for showing us the past.
Were all the previous flashbacks explicitly one character’s point of view? The ones in the last chapter seemed to be including both things Ethan knew and Mike knew.
OK, I take back what I said yesterday. That is just plain evil.
Oh boy, oh boy, if you guys thought yesterday’s strip was bad for my blood pressure, you should’ve seen me last night when this went live on patreon. I was in shock for a second and then everything went white. I actually gave myself a headache, I was so angry.
I really puzzled on how to tackle this. Panel by panel, yes, but I needed something more. So, I’ve written fic: https://archiveofourown.org/works/16287590
Enjoy.
Now. On to THIS catastrophe of bad parenting.
*ahem*
HOLY FUCKBERRIES AND CREAM WHAT IS WRONG WITH HER FUCKING PARENTS?!?!
Panel One: When I first read yesterday’s strip, I thought nothing could make me want to scratch Linda Walkerton’s eyes out more, but I was wrong. Seriously, we’re shitting on MARCIE for this incident? You realize, lady, Sal feels like that’s her fault, right? I don’t know if she’s right to feel that way, but that’s still not on Marcie. Oh wait, no, that’d require you to A) Pay attention to your daughter and give a hot wet shit how she feels and B) According to her logic, that would make Sal the problem and THAT can’t be right, because that might make people look twice at Linda’s FUCKING ABYSMAL parenting and god knows we can’t have THAT, can we? And yeah, clearly, Marcie can’t talk anymore and she’s poor and brown, so she’s clearly worthless as a friend, right? Sal may as well cut her losses. And of course Charles doesn’t say anything, he’s just gonna stand there and silently co-sign his wife and let her do whatever the fuck she wants because he’s either too weak willed to stand up to her or because he agrees with her. Either way, fuck him too. We’ve seen no sign he’s been abused as well so I have very little patience for him.
God, I’m only one panel in and I’m already surprised how much I hate these racist, classist, ableist pieces of shit.
Panel Two: And of course she goes through her daughter’s stuff and took her money. Who wants kids to feel like they’re secure and their stuff’s integrity will be respected in their own home? Not Linda, that’s for sure!
Panel Three: I’m super proud of Sal for raising or saving that much money. That’s incredibly impressive <3 And I'm glad I was wrong and there is a surgery that could hypothetically have helped Marcie. That is literally the only happy thing about this strip.
Panel Four: Yeah, Linda? That's called stealing. You don't get to take other people's stuff without permission. I understand there's something to be said for taking privileges away when kids aren't behaving, but there's a difference between not giving your kid an allowance because she came home late and taking her money because it's not in a bank and you can. But this isn't about actual parenting, it's about Linda controlling her daughter and trying to coerce her into not spending time with the friend Linda doesn't like.
Panel Five: Oh, honey, I was there a long ass time ago. Blaine and Ross and Clint are still worse than the Walkertons, but they're the ones I hate the most. Partially because Sal's my favourite and partially because their emotional digs get my blood boiling.
Panel Six: Fuck you right in the ear, lady. Even before we get into 'stealing your daughter's money' and 'shitting on and forbidding her from helping her best friend who's in a bad situation and did nothing wrong', you're also issuing her a challenge there and dismissing her feelings in one go. Impressive, if it weren't so pathetic.
You realize you can love AND hate someone at the same time, right, Linda, you piece of shit? That's kinda Sal's whole problem tbh. Part of her loves you and wants you to love her back, part of her is just sad about the shit you pull, and part of her absolutely will hate you forever and its your own damn fault.
And fuck you, Charles, if you're not going to say or do shit for your daughter, you don't get to pull the sad kicked in the gut face when she says she hates you. Fuck off.
Panel Seven: And the shit cherry on the shit sundae. Using 'I love you' as a weapon and telling her to go to bed like nothing happened. Of course. God I hate Linda.
In conclusion: I don't ever want to hear anybody say Sal's a bad or ungrateful daughter ever again. It's a testament to how much she loves her parents that she still tries at all. Frankly, they're lucky Sal didn't tear the house apart to get her money back the next time they weren't home and then steal some of theirs for good measure to get a bus ticket as far as she could afford.
Yeah, Linda is vile as shit, and Charles does exactly NOTHING to make anything better.
The message she got when she was a kid is now repeated, loud and clear: Her parents does not think her best friend matters. Her parents don’t think her best friend deserves protection, support, a place in the world or basic human decency. They will actively prevent Sal from trying to help her. Anything Sal can do for and with Marcie has to be DESPITE her parents, not thanks to them.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-7/01-glower-vacuum/liability/
And… good lord. Stealing her money? Not only preventing her from exercising her own agency, not only preventing her from helping her friend (I mean, it’s not like she saved to buy a miljon candy bars or a sweet hog or something), not only hammering home how little basic security and integrity Sal has in her own home… but NOW! In the middle of the night when Sal is already in an extreme disadvantage and virtually standing before a tribunal. “Oh, by the way, we just stole your shit. Anyway, let’s go back to how you are a very bad daughter.”
Toedad demonstrated for Becky loud and clear that her only chance of life and freedom was away from him. Linda makes it a very real risk for Sal that she will never get away. No wonder she felt the need to break every rule hard enough for her parents to finally allow her out of their sight.
I know right? The robbery still isn’t JUSTIFIED, but boy howdy if this built up hasn’t got me to ‘not angry’ (I mean, I wasn’t before because I KNEW her parents had a role in this but still).
Cute fic! I like the “tryin'”-joke
Thank you! I know the comic made that joke already (about the same person, even!),but Walky strikes me as someone who would annoy Marcie a lot, so I had to do the thing.
yay fanfic!
and… holy shit, I finally found my account invite for that darn website! it wasn’t in spam, but I swear it never actually showed up in my inbox. … ooh, it’s happening to new emails too. I think Inbox is marking them as done the instant they arrive. :/ weiiiird.
Strange. I hope you enjoyed it regardless though.
Not quite the same situation, but when I was a teen, my mom used to take money from my saving bag that I secretly kept in my drawer. I only found out because one day she gleefully bragged how she found my savings and said she “borrowed” some when she needed to pay stuff in cash, like isn’t she “so smart and resourceful?”. I remember screaming at her for stealing my money. Granted my mom did gave me back the amount she owed me, but the trust was broken and was never gained back.
I remember being unbelievably furious back then. What Sal went through was so, so much worse. She’s not even saving up for herself, but for a super selfless reason!!! This is something unbelievably fucked up to go through.
What the flying fuck, woman? You’re just gonna take her money away? I’m almost sure she never gave it back too.
Also Walky really needs to get punched in the mouth right about now.
Sure, that will solve everything.
I don’t agree with anything Linda has to say about Marcie. But I can understand taking the money, to presumably use to pay for Sal’s college, or whatever. Even if it is a scumbag thing to do, it is not without a certain motherly logic. Assuming she is actually going to use the money for Sal’s benefit, of course.
Pfft, no. She’s not. She even says right here she’s going to keep it until Sal has ‘healthier’ friendships (i.e. friends who aren’t poor, brown, or disabled).
I didn’t anticipate her “giving it back”, I imagine she would spend it on something that she imagined would benefit Sal in the long term.
Please, you actually think Linda would spend that money on something that would benefit Sal?
Yes, I do. However misguided and controlling she is, she has demonstrated nothing other than the fact that she cares deeply about her daughter’s future. Elsewise, why spend so much time critiquing her.
No. She doesn’t care about Sal other than how people’s opinions towards Linda are affected by Sal. Last strip, the first thing she says is that Sal is making her look like a bad parent.
I think that’s a huge assumption to make based on one sentence, and it in no way proves that she doesn’t care about Sal, even if her methods are reprehensible.
When your only focus is on how your daughter’s making you look and you emotionally abuse said daughter, I do think it throws into question how much you actually care about them. She’s gone over the line from misguided and into abusive. And her ‘caring about her daughter’s future’ is only the future SHE wants for her daughter and the way SHE wants her daughter to be. What Sal wants or needs (the things you need to care about to actually love someone) are irrelevant. Frankly, even if she does love her, it’s not good enough. Love doesn’t cut it when you’re being abusive.
It’s not abusive in my opinion, controlling yes, but she’s acting in what she percieves as her daughter’s best interests.
This woman not only is abusive to Sal, she told Dorothy that Walky is NOT going to school for what he thinks he declared his major as – meaning she’s also abusive to Walky. She doesn’t care about either of her kids – she cares about how people think she raised her kids. Why was Sal sent to hard-ass boarding school in another state after she robbed the gas station, when it’s proven time and again that jail time (which is what that type of “school” amounts to) is at best not beneficial to petty criminals and at worst messes them up permanently? Because Linda had to make a point that Sal wasn’t a part of her household once she wasn’t “acceptable” to her white-assed friends.
Perhaps I should have clarified, I meant that I didn’t view taking the money in and of itself as abusive.
Stealing from your kids and only being willing to return it if they stop speaking to their best friend because you don’t like them is both financially and emotionally abusive and her ‘acting in Sal’s best interests’ does not excuse it any more than Clint acting in Ruth’s ‘best interests’ did.
I honestly did not imagine the money being returned at all, friends or no friends.
That would make Linda a liar as well. That’s..not better.
Yeah, Linda not returning the money at all after saying she would?? That’s abusive. Everything about this scenario is abusive. Parents do not have a right to take money from their children. Point blank. You can argue that parents have a right to confiscate material objects (toys, video game consoles, phones) and to a point, that is not abusive. But straight up taking money from your child that she earned all on her own is abusive, even without Linda not intending to ever give it back. That is not right in any sense of the word, and it doesn’t matter how much Linda cares about Sal. That is garbage.
This is literal financial abuse. Its like a textbook case of it
Why would she do that? Sal’s the one ‘wasting her life’ and doing things she shouldn’t. If she spent it at all and didn’t just keep it as a power play, it’s more likely she’d spent it on Walky than Sal.
I think she does care a lot about Sal actually, she stayed up this late to see her after all.
She stayed up late for a power play where she’s taking her daughter’s money to coerce her into not seeing her best friend anymore. I’m missing the ‘caring’ part here.
Because why bother with all that if you didn’t care.
So you can control how your public image is. As long as Linda can make herself look good to the public she doesn’t give a fuck what sal thanks
To control your daughter and get her to behave how you want them to. And again, all Linda focused on last strip was how Sal made them look bad by hanging out with Marcie.
By that logic Blaine is an extremely loving father because he “cares” so much that he’ll go far out of his way to torment Amber. Linda didn’t stay up late because she was worried (if she had there would have been are “Are you okay?”) she stayed up for purpose of scaring and blackmailing Sal, Linda had already taken the money from Sal’s room by the time she got home which means Linda was planning to do this regardless of why Sal was late.
Abusers must “care” or they wouldn’t bother attacking the same person again and again, that doesn’t mean their “care” is a good thing.
@ Rian – That’s a wonderful point about how she already had the box. If Sal was late because, I dunno, her friend had a massive asthma attack and she didn’t want to leave them alone, Linda’d still have had the box out in the open, prompting a huge fight at the very least when Sal realized she took it from her room.
Look how much Ross cared for Becky. The lengths he was willing to go to for her.
That’s ridiculous. She can care about public image and Sal at the same time.
No, she can’t. You cannot love your child and hurt them for your reputation.
She doesn’t see it as hurting her, she sees it as helping her. Maybe she’s wrong. But sometimes you really DO have to hurt someone to help them, if they refuse to help themselves. So it’s hard to argue with the principle, even if in this case it is wrong.
Toedad pulled a gun on Becky because he “loved” her so much. He saw it as helping her. He TOLD her he was saving her and that she would see that one day, the same way Linda is telling Sal she won’t hate her forever. So, because Linda’s too much of a prissy piss-party to wave a gun around, she’s not abusive?
I think there’s a pretty big difference between what Linda has done, and armed kidnapping.
The actions are different, but both are abusive actions ‘done out of love’ and the ‘done out of love’ excuse does not justify it nor excuse it (at least to my mind).
By your logic, Toedad was justified in trying to kidnap Becky to force her to be straight.
By your logic, it’s okay that Naomi screams at Ethan to not be gay.
By your logic, Clint’s behavior to Ruth is excuseable.
You are blissfully unaware of how abusers work. You might want to wise up, because if you think Linda has Sal’s best interests in mind, you are a dream come true for an abuser.
You are mistaken. My logic was never intended to justify the behavior, merely to provide some basis for why it would seem justified to Linda. Which I can understand, albeit not endorse.
Just because Linda can see it as justified does not make it not abuse.
Irredentist, it is all a question of scale. It is still abuse it is just lower on the scale and smaller. That makes it easier to justify but it doesn’t make it less abusive. That’s why “done out of love” can’t excuse abuse and why emotional and mental abusers are so hard to spot.
I’m hoping this means that you haven’t had very much experience with this in your life, so that I can be happy for you. Because the alternative is that we are unmasking something in your life and things might be getting really hard for you right now because you might realize that someone in your life is being abused or was…. I truly hope that is not the case.
I can see Linda spending that money on something that she think would benefit Sal… like catholic boarding school (headdesk
Thats what I imagined too
Or hair straightening. $700 can apparently be right in that price range.
I’m sure that’s what the money went to in the end, though it wasn’t the intent at this point.
But the issue with that is that the money is not Linda’s. It’s not her call what is done with that money, as Sal earned it on her own. Exerting control over the possessions of other is shitty and a sign of the sort of toxic parenting that needs to be done away with.
You might make the argument that the money was donated under the assumption that it would be used for a specific purpose, and that not using it that way is a moral violation. I would agree with this. But from Linda’s perspective, why shouldn’t it be used on Sal instead? She obviously doesn’t care about Marcie. I don’t agree with this perspective, but I understand it.
It’s a moral violation for her to be touching that money at all.
Sure, but I can understand doing it.
That changes nothing.
I can understand why people do all sorts of awful things but that doesn’t make them okay.
It highlights a deeper problem, as Linda only cares about her own selfish viewpoint. If she genuinely cared about her daughter she would listen to her. As it stands, Linda is in the same camp as parents who send their kids away to “get fixed” because they aren’t happy with how they turned out. In summary: fuck Linda.
I think that’s a journey that all parents take at some point or other, to decide when to just let your child be them. Some find it more difficult than others. I had a controlling parent. She was like Linda in some ways, but I still love her.
It’s Sal’s money not hers. The abusive fuckweasel doesn’t get input in how it’s spent.
It seems to me that what you’re saying is that Linda’s actions, regardless of whether they were right or wrong, are taken because she loves Sal. This may be true, but they are nevertheless not okay. It is wrong to treat your child, or anyone, the way Linda is treating Sal. Whether Linda loves Sal or not–and I think she probably does, somewhere in her selfish, arrogant, and cruel heart–is not relevant to the question of whether what she’s doing is acceptable. It is not.
Sadly, under the law, it is Linda’s. Children aren’t granted the right in the United States to own property. Anything that a minor has technically belongs to their parents. Sometimes this can be a good thing: for instance parents confiscating money earned by their children to prevent them from buying drugs. In Linda’s mind, she is preventing her daughter from spending her money foolishly in a way that she will regret later. Doesn’t make her any less crappy of a person, but it’s an action that is her right as Sal’s mother and legal guardian.
America is fucked. If a person earns something it should be there’s in its entirety
Children are complicated. Exercising some control over a child’s finances, even a young teen’s, is reasonable and necessary. Even if they’ve earned it themselves.
Taking away money they’re saving for a good cause and using it to extort control over their social lives is an abuse of that reasonable authority.
Not true. Laws that say chidren cannot own property mean children cannot own *real estate*.
You approve of stealing from a 13 year old? It doesn’t fucking matter what it was used for she stole from a fucking 13 year old SEVEN HUNDRED DOLLARS. AT THIRTEEN. Linda is the sole reason Sal robbed a store no doubt
It’s not stealing, the money doesn’t belong to Sal, and I didn’t say that I approved of it.
How exactly does the money not belong to Sal? What in this strip or any other gives you the idea that the money isn’t hers and somehow belongs to Linda instead?
Because children cannot legally own property in the US, in fact they more or less ARE property.
I mean, in my country, they can’t either but I’ve had my own savings since I was 8. For many years, most of that money I didn’t even earn it myself! It had been gifted to me either on birthdays or for Christmas by distant relatives and grandparents. And in spite of that, nobody ever touched that money or even thought of touching it because my parents aren’t abusive jerks. They understood it belonged to me to do as I pleased with it even if, by law, it didn’t.
It’s stealing. It’s immoral. This is abuse, specifically financial abuse, and it doesn’t matter if Sal is 13 and legally can’t actually own anything. It doesn’t matter what Linda’s intentions are. It doesn’t matter what she thinks>/i> she’s doing by pulling this shit. It’s an abusive tactic all the same.
This is not Sal’s savings. She was going to give it away. But who knows, it could be her savings now.
I fail to see how that distinction is relevant at all. In fact, doesn’t it make it worse, that Linda knows that Sal wasn’t even planning to spend that money on herself but to use to pay her friend’s surgery?
She was saving it to give it a way. That’s still savings. If its fundraised money, that’s even worse.
She was literally saving it. That makes it her savings.
She was literally SAVING IT. that makes it savings
…it is money she has saved. By definition, it is her savings. What she does with her savings is irrelevant.
I’m sorry, I didn’t realize the law was the sole arbiter on what was moral. Just because she can’t legally be charged with stealing doesn’t mean it isn’t.
Those laws suck, and are more a product of our terrible history than anything else.
Like, sure, kids shouldn’t be able to sue their parents for reasonable punishments, but I can’t think of a reason 700 dollars raised for a friend in need being taken should ever be legal.
No worries. Irredentist is wrong. Those laws relate specifically to real estate, land.
https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/2rfm1y/gahaving_issues_with_parents_do_i_legally_own_any/cnfhn1s/
Yeah, looking into it, it seems like you’re wrong.
And even if legally that’s correct? Morally, it is wrong.
Unless you can give a citation to the law(s) that says children have no property rights, I’m going to say you’re wrong.
Every law I know of that says children cannot own property means real estat, *land*.
In fact, imma go out on a limb and just say you’re wrong. Minor children have rights of inheritance and they can earn money. That belongs to the child, even if parents have some rights to control it. A child can own a savings account, and although there is (usually) a requirement that an adult be “custodian” that adult does not have to be a parent. If Sal had gone to a grandparent/aunt/uncle for help putting the $700 into a savings a count, Linda and Charles would not have been able to touch it. Even if the grandparent/aunt/uncle is able to control the account, it’s still Sal’s money.
Parents get away with taking away their children’s belongings mostly because no one is calling the police and getting the district attorney to prosecute. Yes, parents can control/remove/withhold things/money belonging to the child if they believe it’s in the child’s interest, but it still belongs to the child. The law tends to assume the parent is justified, and usually the value of the object in question doesn’t rise to the level that someone will bring in the law, but if Linda never gives that money back to Sal, she *stole* it.
Actually, it’s a little more complicated. I looked it up, and it turns out that while Sal can in fact own her own money, her parents are still allowed to dictate how and when it is spent, and thus Linda is not breaking any laws by confiscating it, assuming that she uses it for the benefit of Sal.
And benefit has a pretty broad definition here. Blowing it at the track wouldn’t be, but spending it on things she’d otherwise have been providing to Sal anyway probably would be – food, clothes, housing etc.
I wonder if it being a fundraiser makes any difference? I mean, it would if it was a formal school fundraiser or something. If a kid raised $700 selling band cookies or something, the parent couldn’t just take that in trust for the kid, right? It’s already dedicated to a another purpose, it’s not really her money.
Is the GoFundMe money the same way? Is this the GoFundMe money at all? Or other money Sal’s managed to accumulate? Would she even be able to get at the GoFundMe money in cash without a bank account or something?
hey turns out some laws are bad and things that are legally okay are still morally and ethically wrong
You’re conflicted the two
Actually, the crowdfunding campaign means some of that money was Marcies. I don’t believe a parent is allowed to steal SOMEONE ELSE’S kids money. Your argument is specious.
I’m not sure if the money in the crowdfunding campaign is the money in the shoebox, but regardless, the money was earmarked for Marcie which makes it very very shitty.
That’s pretty much exactly what I said, so thank you for agreeing.
We can say that Linda hasn’t stolen the money YET. It depends on what Linda does with it.
But ultimately whether a parent’s taking a child’s money is theft or exercise of parental control is a legal determination, and since these matters rarely ever end up in a court of law, that question is never answered in all but an infinitesimal number of cases.
It annoys the shit out of me when people make grand statements about the law when they don’t know what the hell they’re talking about.
We can however say that it’s the moral equivalent, even if it’s not actually illegal.
You are conflating what is legal with what is moral. They are not the same.
It’s seems like an ongoing theme of bad parenting in the comic to me. Toedad said that he was doing what he did for Becky as well.
And Im sure Ethans mother will have some “interesting” things to say on the subject in the future as well
First of all legally that money is Sal’s not her mother’s. A parent does not automatically own everything a child owns. Its tough to enforce but if there is a case its I earned $700 myself and my mom decided to take it from me is one of the best. Also I feel like what your working under the assumption that children are basically slaves anyways when you assume children don’t have their own property rights.
Second of all if you want to do anything like spending money a child makes on what you think is best for the child this is worst way to go about it. What you do in that situation is your up front about either having to put away so much money before they can have any to spend or discuss what the your future tax is going to be before they earn the money.
Linda is punishing Sal for saving money instead of buying candybars by deciding to spend it on something she was going to buy Sal anyways.
Third unless she’s literally trying to punish Sal for trying to be a good person this is not a good punishment. You take away toys kids fight over or use to misbehave. Or you ground them and don’t let them have access to their toys but its still there’s.
Nobody else seems to be saying it, and if Willis would rather I didn’t, sorry in advance, but:
You know what, Irredentist? Fuck you very much.
Just… Bad parenting is bad parenting, and we have more than enough evidence that this is bad parenting, so stop trying to give Linda credit for things she hasn’t done.
Agreed.
Absolutely. If that’s love, it comes at much too high a cost. (Remember How Joyce has had actual trauma flashbacks to Toedad’s ‘I will die for you’ and Carol saying the same is a huge warning sign? Yeah. If your version of love justifies hurting your kid like this, I don’t care what you feel, you are still a terrible parent.)
No worries, I understand. People are very passionate about this kind of thing, and I don’t blame you at all for disliking me. Go in peace.
Please read up on the signs of abuse, and especially emotionally manipulation because even with all the anecdotal experiences on this page, you do not seem to be Getting It.
A child saves money to help pay for surgery to repair damage to another child’s vocal chords, and you think it’s “understandable” to take the money? Whoa.
Reading with Irredentist’s original comment from Linda’s point of view, it makes complete sense. Linda considers herself a good mother doing what is best for Sal, her trouble child. She probably did spend the money on something she thought would help Sal. That is how she knows Sal will not hate her forever. Sal will realize how great a mother she has been tonight and how difficult this was for Linda to do. Linda loves Sal. She even told Sal that just to be sure Sal understands.
I think Linda truly believes this.
None of this actually makes Linda a good parent, person, or anything less than a monster. But no one sees one’s self as a monster.
“But no one sees one’s self as a monster.”
counterpoint: amber does
“No one correctly sees one’s self as a monster?”
Mike does.
We don’t know that Linda considers herself a good mother. She no doubt feels she’s justified in what she’s doing, but I can’t think of anything she’s said or done that indicates she thinks she’s doing this for Sal’s sake.
Like many abusive parents, she seems to consider her children to be extensions of herself and whether something is “good” or “bad” for her children depends on how it would reflect on her.
Of course, her motivation doesn’t truly matter. Intent is not magic. Whether she’s acting out of misguided “love” or pure narcissism, the impact on Sal is the same.
This makes me wonder what Linda’s relationship with her own mother is/was like.
Not a bet you wanna take, Lindsay.
This is hitting uncomfortably close to home for me (the money aspect anyway) and the only advice I could think of giving Sal is to button it up, go to college and, once you graduate, cut your family out of your life for good
same on the it hitting close to home. But this kind of advice for a 13 year old, while genuinely good and realistic, might be waaaaay too long of a wait, not to mention Marcie’s situation. I can see why she snapped and went robbing stores :/ Here’s hoping we see Sal taking this kind of advice, and find peace with cutting our her family later in the comic
Wait, you just said something very interesting. We never found out why Sal tried to rob a convenience store. Was she just rebelling, or was she stealing money for Marcie’s surgery?
Narrative wise, I think it’s building up to show us why Sal robbed the store (unless plot twist). I honestly can see if Sal robbed the store both out of desperation to fund Marcie’s surgery, and as an act of rebelling towards Linda that she would help her friend no matter what Linda said.
We’re finding out now why she robbed the convenience store! This flashback sequence started after she connected Ethan to the robbery. Obviously she robbed it because of *these events*.
Appropriate gestures of support.
And yeah, I want the kids the hell away from Linda forever, and for Sal to have opened a bank account Linda didn’t have access to the moment she turned eighteen with money she had saved that Linda didn’t know about. This is ‘find your documentation, walk out, and hit the gas the moment you’re out of sight’ territory.
It’s funny, I hated Toedad and Blaine, I still do with a passion, but this is the first time a strip has actually given me a physical reaction. It’s this surge of nauseated anger and sadness, maybe because it feels familiar to experiences I’ve had. I hate Linda because everyone KNOWS that Toedad and Blaine are bad, but Linda is still seen as “normal, nice mom!” by the majority of the cast. I also really want to protect Sal because she really looks so injured and small and her expression makes me want to cry. 🙁
THIS.
Certain things– neglecting your kid to the point where they go without food or medicine, physical violence, sexual abuse– pretty much everyone agrees these acts are cruel and abusive. Now, survivors of these kinds of abuse may still face disbelief because it is hidden. But, the actions are largely called abusive and known to be un-loving.
But with narcissistic abuse and psychological abuse, so many people think it’s bad, but not abuse. For some, it is because they were themselves abused; this kind of thing was normalized for them. For others, it is difficult to see why the action is so intensely serious, having been in non-abusive emotional conflicts with parents, and not understanding first hand how this crosses the line.
Constantly hearing that narcissistic abuse and psychological abuse is not genuinely abusive is a serious impediment to healing from this kind of abuse. I really want to protect Sal also.
I don’t want to be insensitive here but can you maybe not use the term ‘narcissistic abuse’ please? This is definitely emotional abuse and psychological abuse, but ‘narcissistic abuse’ is not a separate classification of types of abusive actions that wouldn’t fit under already existing categories and the usage of it worsens stigma for people with NPD and encourages armchair diagnosing people with a condition that can be ‘blamed’ for their cruelty.
I otherwise very much completely agree with you. Emotional, verbal and psychological abuse can have devastating effects on people, and it is awful that because the scars of it aren’t visible, people don’t always take it as seriously as they do other types of harm.
Narcissistic abuse is very different than just emotional abuse. It is it’s own subtype of emotional abuse with very specific characteristics. Also, most people with NPD don’t believe they have a problem and will never seek treatment because they think they’re right. They don’t care if anyone doesn’t like them on an individual level because they can just slander them until no one believes them.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/toxic-relationships/201709/how-spot-narcissistic-abuse%3famp
Appropriate gestures of support.
There was plenty of support for Toedad, right up until the gun came out. And a little bit afterwards.
Less for Blaine.
Plenty of people insisting that Clint was just looking out for Ruth.
We’re just getting to the point where we finally see how bad Linda is and it can’t be denied anymore.
I mean Linda.
So… does Linda still maybe have a point or what? Let’s discuss.
I should add right now that I’m being facetious and this is directed at those that, even with this strip, will still attempt to defend Linda. I really, really hope none of those people actually exist (but I haven’t read through all the comments yet).
Oh thank god you were joking. That actually makes me feel better. There were at least 3 already and I was not. Happy.
Yeah, I said I was bowing out. I changed my mind.
I should’ve added an emoji in there or a sarcasm tag to make it clearer. You’d think I’d learnt by now that I should never dismiss Poe’s Law.
*Internet support gestures* Yeah the rest of this arc is going to be rough. We’re probably not through the flashbacks and I do not want to see what the aftermath of the robberies will be like.
Linda is now joining the Physically Abusive Three on the list of parents I actually want retroactively dead, timeline be damned.
I don’t want her dead, I just want her to fuck off. But you’re right, we’re nowhere near done yet. The super long flashback is supposed to be about two weeks and we’re just finishing the first.
Other parents are worse (Blaine, Ross) but I think I hate the Walkertons the most for a couple reasons – A) The shallow reason, Sal’s my favourite. B) Unlike Blaine and Ross, there’s no chance these two are ending up in jail and I hate it. I hate that so much of society will bend over backwards to excuse and ignore emotional abuse and, because of how hard it would be to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (which is an important standard, but it does often leave victims of harder to prove injustices like rape, abuse, etc. in a bad way) they are never ever going to face societal consequences.
Societal, probably not. But hopefully someday they’ll end up alone and forgotten, justly left to rot by the children they abused.
That’s a lot of money for a thirteen year old to have on hand. Given she’s mixed race, if cops found it, their first assumption would be she was running drugs.
A GOOD parent would help her set up a bank account to keep it safe – probably requiring a parental co-signature to make a withdrawal, but actually it is clear that in Sal’s case this precaution is unnecessary. Certainly it would not be good if Walky (David) found the money. But this confiscation, with the implication that she doesn’t get it back until she has given up on Marcie, is quite wrong.
The problem with that is that a good parent would have been unlikely to find the money in the first place. Seems like she had to go on a pretty extensive snoop through Sal’s personal things to get her hands on it.
A good parent wouldn’t have to find it. A good parent would be helping Sal raise it and it never would have been hidden from them.
That’s a lot of money for a thirteen year old to have on hand. Given she’s mixed race, if cops found it, their first assumption would be she was running drugs.
Why would the cops find it? It’s in her own home, in a wealthy neighborhood. There is no freaking way that Linda is letting the cops (or child services) into her home without a warrant.
Valid points:
1. It looks like Linda does, in fact, know where Sal keeps her stuff.
2. Sal is probably actually thirteen, and not immortal.
3. Even reaching like that I couldn’t get to three.
You. I like you.
Aw, thanks! I like you too! 🙂
3. Linda is, in fact, her mother. Unfortunately.
Linda’s evil guys, but don’t forget. Charles let it happen. He’s just as bad. And honestly? If Walky had stood up for Sal, Linda probably would have backed down. But nope.
Basically, it’s a family of shits.
Linda would not back down if Walky stood up to her and I’m tired of people acting like he can stop this. If he sided with Sal, it would only make Linda angrier and more likely to give Walky the same treatment. Again, he is a child here and also believes that his mother is in the right because that is what he is told. Now that he is older he realizes just how often his mother has screwed over Sal and treated her like trash, but until college he legitimately believes in his mother. Shoukd he think for himself and realize it sooner? Probably. But shitting on him for the actions of his parents is exactly what Linda is doing to Marcie, although she is doing it to a much larger degree and without Marcie’s parents actually doing anything wrong, other than possibly being in the country illegally(that we know of).
Linda’s love for Walky is entirely conditional on him being the “Good Son”, he knows it on some level. That’s why he’s so terrified of not doing well at school, that’s why he’s suprised to realize that he can still be loved when he’s failing math. If Walky stood up for Sal, walked away from his “Good Son” script, it won’t be like “Oh, the son I like is telling me I’m a Bad Mom I guess I should stop now.” it’s just gonna be “Oh Walky isn’t the Good Son anymore blah blah blah bad influance time to treat David the same way I treat Sally”. Sal got the short end of the stick between the Walkerton twins, I have no doubt of it, but when a parent is a Shitty-Ass Parent all the kids get fucked-up by that whatever they follow the script or not.
Walky is not a shit. He was also just a child, and the golden child. The “smart boy”. The “good boy”. Did you see how terrified he was when he started getting bad grades? That’s Linda’s doing. He’s as afraid of his mother as Sal is angry at her. And with good reason. Of course he’s not going to stand up to her. Of fucking course he’s going to try and curry favor with her as often and obnoxiously as possible. And it’s no fucking wonder he’s the “oblivious idiot” now, that’s been his coping mechanism all these years.
I’m just gonna assume you’re not including Sal because she doesn’t want yo be included in that family anyway.
We have no data proving one way or another that Charles isn’t also being abused. Until we do have data, I’m going to give him a call he benefit of the doubt
That seems ridiculous. If Walky had tried to stand up, she’d have bulldozed him, because twelve year old Walky can’t win an angry shouting match with his own mom. Hell, I’m pretty sure that if his dad had tried to stand up to her, he’s ALSO have gotten bulldozed. Linda seems that type of person.
Imagine that last panel taken out of context.
It’s bad enough IN context.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDGE!!!
how I hate the weaponized “I love you” in the last panel, as if that’s supposed to absolve stealing from your own daughter
what the hell Linda, and what the hell Charles…what the hell
God damn, with every passing strip Charles and Linda get worse and worse
Narrator: She did.
If I wasn’t currently awake and rocking my infant daughter to sleep, I think after reading that I’d just be awake and rocking.
“I love you so you can’t hate me, and my loving you and being your mother makes my every decision (to invade your privacy, to “confiscate” your savings, everything!) unambiguously and undeniably morally right” just isn’t how it works.
yeah, the “my children should love me unconditionally” logic is always the worst. They don’t have to, and we can only really just try to give them reason to love us, but manipulating only works for so long, spells don’t last forever – they either wear off or turn into curses.
Appropriate gestures of support. This strip is viscerally revolting.
Is there any way she can be sent to, like, five bad places simultaneously?
Specifying Linda in case that somehow wasn’t clear.
Of course it can be done…I’m just wondering why a person with a Deadpool avatar hasn’t figured out how. :/
I more mean how do we arrange it. Like, is there a twitter poll? A change.org petition? Doing the hokey-pokey on an altar of Mephisto while whistling the theme of Shadow the Hedgehog backwards until our feet bleed?
I think you generally arrange it with a saw, a few boxes, and the good ol’ usps. That or hiring someone with flexible morals like mike
No, like, she has to consciously experience the bad places for this hypothetical plan to be considered a success.
So, like with an advanced brain-to-machine interface, an IV drip, and some VR-esque rendering techniques. Plus, any visual concepts you can skim from the collective imagination of the internet. Simulating 4 separate locations plus the real world and correctly tethering a person’s consciousness to them without said person falling conscious would be a real trick.
I mean… I was trying something a little more magical, but Black Mirror works also.
I’ve been holding a secret hope in my heart of hearts that Blaine’s ultimate end will be on some pig farm or something that has an Understanding with the local mob about visitors late at night on the property and days the pigs are less hungry for no apparent reason.
It loses a lot of relevance with other bad parents, but so far I haven’t thought up one better.
It is still pretty good though.
This is a case that I think a good kick in the crotch may not fix but it’ll leave the readership feeling satisfied.
Toedad, Blaine and Clint: Wow, that was excessive. Maybe take it down a notch there. You don’t want to come across as, you know, evil.
I never wanted to curb stomp a comic character before. fuck Linda like hardcore man. What a scummy piece of human shit. I really want her to get hit by a bus
Anyone else getting really strong flashbacks to the scene where King Triton destroys Ariel’s grotto with his laser-trident? ‘Cause I’m getting *really* strong flashbacks to the scene where King Triton destroys Ariel’s grotto with his laser-trident.
It happened now and again in 80:s coming of age movies that a parent would destroy something important for the child right in front of them to demonstrate their power and how little the childs own choice matters. Most often, it was a catalyst for the child running away from home.
Funny enough, not a single of the movies that used this trope then praised the parents for their awesome parenting skill.
One of the reasons Ariel is my favorite Disney princess (and, I feel, one of the most feminist), is how much her story reads as a metaphor for escaping a controlling / emotionally abusive or coercive family, and that choosing to take on a disability in order to be free can be empowering.
Ariel is incredibly brave. What she wants at the beginning of the film is so much more lovely than what her father wants for her. She, essentially, wants to make first contact with a culture she realizes her entire community misunderstands. She’s like an anthropologist who is both excited by the opportunity to learn something new and frustrated by her ignorance.
And even when she’s embarrassed because her ignorance is exposed (a dinglehopper is not for hair!) she recovers pretty quickly– because she want to learn more than she values being smart or right.
Her Dad thinks he knows her. She’s a beauty and a gifted singer, and that’s it. He refuses to try to understand her further than that. Worse, he wants to to fear what he fears.
So when she realizes that pursuing a different destiny means altering her body? And then she chooses to change, and her changed self is more liberating and more true than the way she was born? Amazing.
And I mean, so she falls in love with a guy in three days. So what; that makes her automatically un-feminist?
Ariel is my fave.
Amusingly, I always read it as an interracial relationship.
That trident laser to destroy all the human objects was still yikes but I don’t think Triton was abusive per se. Flawed yes as he was stubborn, not really listening, and was unwilling to accept any kind of argument that the human world was anything other than ‘dangerous’. But he also came to accept Ariel’s choices later on and that he was wrong to be so restrictive.
I do really like your interpretation though because I also love Ariel. Ariel is great.
That was absolutely an abusive moment, even if Triton wasn’t otherwise abusive. Destroying the personal property of your children in order to control them is abuse. It’s emotional abuse.
It’s like parents destroying iPads and phones they’ve given to their children because they don’t like the amount of screentime. There are better, healthier ways to stop that, but taking that iPad and smashing it on the ground is emotionally manipulative and horrible.
I think its more like a parent destroying the rock and roll CD’s their kid collected behind their back because they don’t approve of their kid participating in the rock and roll culture.
That’s probably a better example, yeah, but it’s still abusive.
Am… am I really agreeing with Sal for once?
so anyway my dog is resting on the couch next to me in a little sweater and he just did a big stretch that pushed out a little toot.
just in case anyone needed a silly dog story for any reason.
it’s much appreciated.
TOOT TOOT
That is precious and wonderful, thank you.
Uh yeah that’s totally stealing.
Yup, no matter what universe, Linda, you are still a bongo.
Holy fucking shit, how the fuck do you do something so terrible that it makes goddamned Blaine of all people look less bad by comparison? Like, we all knew Linda was not a great person but this is some next level shit. I don’t think I’ve wanted to reach through my monitor and punch a character this bad since Toedad kidnapped Becky.
I think this is one of the few times we have a mom join the roster of shit dads.
Like, I think Ethan’s mom is one of them. But, like, both of them manifest it in a very defferent way. Like, think of the IRONY of confiscating the money your kid is saving for their friend’s surgery. Repeat that to yourself, and realize how fucked up that sounds.
But Ethan’s mom and Linda, their fucked up/asshole parents in a much subtler way than Blaine and toe dad. But, like, still so so so fucked up. It makes something so fucked like this seem normal. Linda is the REASON Sal can’t have healthy relationships.
And everything Sal fails to be, Walky is supposed to be. No WONDER he channels that into “fuck whit” isms. He does get “extra care” because she cares more, but only because Sal stands up to Linda.
The specifics are so different, but I knew I always really connected with Walky on a weird level. This seems waaaaaay to familiar. At least in some respects. Fuck.
I mean Ruth technically it’s shit Grandad, but still a male figure.
Yeah, it’s those two and Carol (Joyce’s mom, who already disowned Jordan and we know Jocelyne knows she’s next) in the worst moms for me, and this moment may pull Linda in the lead for now.
I fully expect Carol to do something just this terrible or worse eventually (or reveal she already did stuff like this when Jordan left,) but that coldness and utter disregard for Sal is just awful. (I have no expectations Ethan’s mom will accept him and I’m sure she’ll only get worse and Ethan cutting ties would be great… but damn. Damn. His parents flat out told him to have sex he didn’t damn want, his dad told him it would suck, and this is still DAMN.)
Oh, I also include the Wilcox parents in this awful category. Everything about early Danny makes sense when you realize they killed his self esteem years ago.
Appropriate gestures of support if needed. I can’t scroll this text box up.
Wait was Jordan disowned? my understanding is that he is an estranged son, but not necessary disowned.
Not sure about legally (that would be disinherited anyway), but given they never talk about him except in ways like ‘Jordan is… Jordan’ and how they don’t want to repeat what happened with him? I think by that point it makes little difference. There doesn’t appear to be any expectation of reconciling, and even if that was Jordan’s call they still consider him a lost cause in turn so by this point it seems mutual. That said we have so little information about Jordan in general that everything with him is extrapolation.
(And the fact that Joyce has no idea about him is another piece of evidence to me. Maybe she was too young to know anything, but even now it seems like that information is kept tight.)
I forgot Danny’s Parents were ass, too.
Jesus I want them all to have so many hugs
@Irredentist: Linda may indeed think she is acting in her daughter’s best interests, but she seems to lack the insight to recognise that she is in fact acting in her own best interest (not to mention that her perception of that is pretty skewed).
As an aside, I haven’t seen a Damn You Willis so far. Everyone is blaming Linda, not the playwright. I think many of us have experience with parents using their authority in ways which frustrated us as children. This is a particularly egregious example, but it is realistic, and it has brought up painful memories.
Oh yeah got to love the parent logic that you’ll eventually get over whatever awful shit they do to you because you’re young.
it’s always way worse because it gets so ingrained you don’t even know where your problems come from when you get older. You forget the event but not in the ways that matter.
So true. Sometimes mom situations appear in my DREAMS, and then I remember more reasons why I don’t like or trust her.
This was hard to read. My grandma (my stand in mom) does this all the time. People like this… they are so horrible. The act of shrouding toxicity and abuse in the guise of love is so wrong. The worst part is that you know what they are doing, but it’s hard to call it out. After all, “it’s love”. It takes all the power away from your feelings on the abuse and throws it back at you. Like you are the one that’s bad and it takes your worth from you.
*Internet support gestures* Yeah, it’s awful and cruel and so incredibly fucked up.
Oh wow flashback to my mom throwing a comic book in the trash because she didn’t like me reading it. And other times also confiscating regular novels. Because I was reading so much.
And then there’s also the sense of ‘your saved up money is also my money, and I don’t really need to ask explicit permission to use it, since it’s for religious donation, which is obviously a common priority for everyone in this family’.
Same for the books. I have many torn up or water stained/warped books (there’s a moldy one in a bag from the one time I couldn’t save a library book) from all the times I “wasn’t spending my time on things I should spend it on”, even though letting me read would’ve taught me more time and anxiety management than micromanaging me. I could tape the books back together, but at this point the damage is so far done that fixing them seems pointless.
You guys got punished for reading?!?
The closest I have to that is when I was reading novels in class. Even then I was just told to pay attention.
Appropriate gestures of support, and also augh. That is like four different kinds of terrible at least.
Your mother thought you *read too much*? That clonk you heard was my jaw dropping and hitting the floor.
I never actually thought someone would mention something that I could relate to so well. Parents confiscating books for ‘reading too much’? So familiar. Luckily, they gave up first, though it never got as far as books being thrown away. Then again, I never read any actual comic books.
The sad part is that, looking back, I feel like I didn’t read enough. (I mean books did compete with video-games after all.)
Sometimes I think updates like this exist to make me feel better about my own parents. (paranoid fundie weirdo and philandering manbaby control freak, respectively)
Awful family just sucks. In so many uniquely terrible ways. *Supportive gestures*
That doesn’t really sound any better to me as an outsider honestly, but of course it’s your call. *gesture of support*
Oh Sal.
Also, side note, I don’t really hate Walky so much as I hate that I can see myself in him. I wish I’d stood up to my parents more, even if now they’ve let up more, because my problems still exist and are not addressed and I still think they benefit more than harm even though I know it’s not true, and his fears in the present situation outside of this flashback are fears I have still, even after 4 years. I hate Linda both because she is an actual terrible person, and because she’s created children with these complexes I identify with (although, Willis, we all know the person who created all of this is none of these characters)
Come on Sal. I bet that nice Mike boy who moved away would help you come up with a new plan.
I wonder if current day linda still has that…
and now *everyone* hates Linda forever
It never ceases to amaze me how Linda can be totally wrong an completely right all at the same times. Sal’s relationship with Marcie did start to take on a very unhealthy cast to it along the way but Linda’s reasons for saying this were all entirely wrong. Additionally, basically not letting her use her money on the good cause for which she had collected it is amazingly cruel and not just towards Sal. It is symptomatic of the Walkerton parents’ tendency to make decisions about whether some people are ‘worthy’ of kindness.
I also think it’s ironic that the next serious friendship that Sal creates seems to inevitably leading her into the life of a costumed vigilante!
A big chunk of Sal and Marcie’s latest problems come back around to Linda, though. Every authority figure treats her like crap and her friends and any romantic relationships have not been reliable (either getting annoyed when she wasn’t what they wanted her to be, trying to fix her, or treating her like some total ‘bad girl’ or ‘super cool’ archetype without actually caring about her until they moved on, or being ‘the worst damn people’) which made Marcie stick out as the only one she could trust to be vulnerable with. This is a huge reason why she’s so clingy with Marcie.
The other big reasons are Sal and Malaya don’t get along and Sal broke her no fighting promise, but Linda didn’t have anything to do with either of those (except in so much as she contributed to Sal being so clingy with Marcie because of the aforementioned problems with people, which helped fuel her jealousy towards Malaya). Sal pretty much fucked up those two on her own.
Linda is right ONLY in that Sal needs to make other friends. It’s just that those other friends should be in addition to Marcie, rather than replacing her.
Their relationship itself was totally healthy. It’s Sal’s unwillingness to try to find ANY other friends that was unhealthy and putting on strain on her friendship with Marcie, and Sal was doing that all to herself. Marcie was actively discouraging that over-dependence and encouraging her to make new friends.
Well Linda hasn’t said “I am just following orders” so she’s not beyond redemption yet, if she even capable to admitting her problem. I am interested to see her reaction when she sees police and news crews on her lawn when she wakes up. Another thing in the back of my mind that bothers me is how Sal got her bike.
…I’ve never been more grateful for my own, non-crappy parents. Gonna hug my mum and dad next time I see them.
Testing…
Every so often I’m amazed my core family are so functional, all told. And extremely grateful.
Testing…
Sorry. Just trying to find a character that suited me. Can’t remember who this guy is, but I like his look.
That’s Sayid. He’s appeared in a total of 4 strips plus at least one Willis-porn. His contributions to the story have been to loan Amazi-Girl a skateboard to chase down Toedad and to point out that Becky was violating health codes by handling Joyce’s sausage bare-handed.
I knew I recognized him from somewhere. Nice.
The skateboard part was awesome, though.
Like many side characters, I assume Sayid is having a pretty good semester but is sick of his non-IU circle checking in because a gunman on campus?! A high-speed car chase?! A rapist attacked two freshmen with a knife and is hospitalized?!
Move-in week my freshman year of college started with the early students getting hit with the DC earthquake and ended with the parents entering the ‘Letting Go’ session that afternoon while we were getting orientation and being told to please take their children home because a hurricane was coming. The valedictorian made a point of talking about how nature itself was against us four years later. I can only imagine what THEIR commencement speech will be like.
I assume that Sayyid, like the other side characters, is caught up in his own intense personal drama, including just as many evil parents, action sequences and other hijinks as our main characters.
(Except for Forest Quad. Nothing ever happens in Forest Quad.)
Hey, he had no problem with AG ‘deputizing’ his skateboard, so clearly he’s seen his fair share of ridiculous drama-type stuff.
(I mean yeah he’d just seen that Ross was a dangerous fuckwit but the point is I like this headcanon)
Whoa, phrasing! (Considering the arc It’s Walky just wrapped up.)
Oh, good, someone noticed.
No Linda, you don’t love Sal. You love your mental image of what you want Sal to be, amd you abuse the real one for failing to conform to that Image.
The same holds true for Walky, the only difference is that so far he hasn’t deviated far enough outside the plan to earn any punishment.
That’s going to change when his first quarter grades come in…
Here’s my unpopular defense of Linda’s actions in this flashback:
First, let me say that this is a defense of THIS action. Linda has proven with her own words that this is not a single event, that Linda’s own long term judgement is horrible and she is a Bad Parent. Top Five in the comic, because Clint doesn’t seem racist or sexist. But I digress.
Linda is an adult person. In Linda’s mind, she can make Good Choices, and knows what choices lead to the Carefreem Successful, Happy Future(tm) for her daughter and which will not. Linda also is a human being, who worries that people will see that Sal keeps making risky choices, and not blame the 13 year old girl, but will blame Sal’s mother: Linda.
To Linda, this is the same sort of parental problem like “My daughter likes to eat Laundry/Dishwasher Soap Pods, so I will put those items on a high shelf out of my daughter’s reach, because she does not understand that they are not candy, and that eating them is bad.”
In Linda’s mind, Sal is making Bad Choices. She is choosing to spend time with people who, even if it isn’t their fault, present a high risk to Sal. Regardless of the Good Values system that Sal has been taught, she keeps making the Wrong Choice in order to keep herself from situations that risk her Happy Carefree Adult Life ™. Therefore, Linda has to limit Sal’s choices, or take them away entirely. If Sal is not capable of making the Right Choice, then she can’t be allowed choices.
Now, if you’re not exploded by rage at this point, let that steam loose. Linda SHOULD have taken Sal to the bank to open a savings account, and learn financial literacy. Linda could have let Sal learn the actual medical facts about Marcie’s chances of speaking again, and what an appropriate level of support between Marcie and Sal should be. Charles and Linda should have both talked to Sal about the dangers in the world for a thirteen year old girl out late and her parents don’t know where she is, and the men and boys who will see her as prey. Charles and Linda should have explained that its not Marcie’s parents’ skin color and immigration status that makes them Bad Adults, its other behaviors that put Marcie at risk (if there are any, which we haven’t seen to be the case)
Instead, Linda does none of these things, because she is a Terrible Parent. There is no such thing as a Carefree Happy Adult Life ™, and Linda should know this because she is not living one herself, nor is anyone else. She spoils David because he infantilizes himself, and punishes Sal for even seeking adult responsibility.
But taking away your kid’s choices because they keep making irresponsible choices is both dis-empowering and sometimes The Right Thing To Do as a responsible parent.
Except that Sal isn’t making an irresponsible choice. She’s making an incredibly responsible choice by setting up a gofundme and raising money to help Marcie.
You’re defending Linda’s actions under the logic that she’s trying to do the Right Thing as a responsible parent, but that logic is fundamentally flawed. She’s not. She’s really, genuinely not. She is not concerned about Sal in any way that does not reflect upon her negatively. This is proven throughout the comic, and even just last strip where Linda says Sal’s actions are making the Walkertons look like “bad parents”. It’s all about image- Linda’s image.
You’re throwing out things that Linda and Charles should have done that, frankly, have little to no basis in their personalities or beliefs as shown thus far, and allowing them much more charity than ought to be given.
And like.. not going to lie, it’s a little unnerving to have put in a point for Linda to justify her racist beliefs by “[explaining] that its not Marcie’s parents’ skin color and immigration status that makes them Bad Adults, its other behaviors that put Marcie at risk (if there are any, which we haven’t seen to be the case)”. You’re saying that these are all things that the Walkertons should have done and? Sorry but coming up with reasons why they’re not racist because of x reason is bs.
I’m just genuinely not sure what your point is because it’s blatantly flawed. Several other parents have done things because they thought it was the Right Thing to do. Hint: It wasn’t. Your defense of Linda being that she thought she was doing the Right Thing doesn’t mean anything when people use that all the time to excuse abusive actions. Linda is being abusive in this moment. It doesn’t matter that she thought she was in the right. That doesn’t change anything.
I think a large level of how immoral you may think Linda’s actions are depends on whether you think any of the money Sal has raised belongs to Sal or whether it’s already Marcie’s/the charity. Linda taking money from a child is abusive but 250 of this was donated by other people for a disadvantaged child’s care.
Linda acts like she’s confiscating Walky’s Xbox fund.
She acts like she’s confiscating Walkies Xbox.
It’s the part where Linda makes an ultimatum with the money that gets me. If your kid genuinely can’t be trusted with money anymore due to Issues (undercut by Sal raising that money through apparently legal sources at age thirteen, which is truly impressive,) you don’t really give them a chance to change your mind (that in this case seems disingenuous and is incredibly nasty.)
If those issues are drugs or other addiction, you get the kid outside help because the current status quo is clearly not working.
If the kid is a genuine threat to themself or others, you take emergency actions.
All of these are sequences that can override the child’s consent, but a key part of them is that if you’re getting to that point you pretty much have to change the whole setting and not just lay down Parental Authority because when you reach that point, Parental Authority with no other changes is a recipe for failure. (Even if they stay living in the household, that’s still a ‘close supervision, possibly hide certain common household objects, and intensive action’ situation.)
Linda’s not just hiding the Tide Pods, she’s telling Sal she’s only allowed to wear certain clothes and access to the laundry room will resume after she accepts this fact. The action is unreasonable in itself, but the demand with it makes it clear what the intention is. It’s not about Sal’s actions, it’s about keeping Sal controlled.
And the action itself – taking money meant for a child’s medical bills – is doubly terrible because Marcie is in fact a child who does in fact need medical care, and Linda saying ‘nope, raising money for her isn’t good enough for me’ says Marcie is unworthy of basic human decency.
(Even in some hypothetical scenario where Marcie’s household or where they were hanging out was known to be unsafe, Marcie herself is perfectly nice and deserving of care and the right thing to do would be to establish a safer environment for them to play in. We have never met the Diazes. We still have no idea what caused Marcie’s accident except Sal’s unreliable amounts of guilt, and the first fight we see Sal in was at Sal’s elementary school. And Linda decided Marcie was no good at age five for climbing on top of a piece of playground equipment – actual concern would be trying to get HER down as well and asking where her parents were, not just cursing at her five-year-old and making a bunch of assumptions – and existing. Maybe the fact that Marcie was clearly speaking Spanish in that exchange. Nothing could be extrapolated from that sequence except that Marcie’s supervising parent had an attention slip the same way Linda clearly had, but Linda immediately reacts with vitriol. This can’t be compared to the Genuine Bad Influence Kid who starts fires or the drug dealer who’s only one of an established bad social group, because that assumes a level of good faith that we know for a fact is absent. And even then, if the tiny arsonist got seriously injured and your kid raised a ton of money to help them, the decent thing to do would be give them the money but say ‘I really, REALLY don’t want you hanging out with this kid who sets fires under *circumstances in which they have set fires* because we know it’s dangerous.’ And then either make the kid understand how dangerous things are or try to allow limited exposure in safe circumstances for a slow fade. If they can’t keep the rules they don’t get to see kid, and if they do then you’re keeping an eye on things and know kid is not playing with Tiny Arsonist and balloons filled with gasoline. Nothing about how Linda is doing this is decent or reasonable. If she had an actually good reason why Marcie wasn’t safe to be around, she would have brought it up instead of the racist associations shit.)
What a fucking asshole. And I bet she thinks it’s all Marcie’s fault that Sal robbed a convenience store
Willis, I hope there is a point where Linda gets punched in the face. Hard. I can’t recall if there was already a moment but if there was, she needs it again
Since I’m not sure I’ll check this section again today, *Internet support gestures* to anyone else this hits close to home to and I missed.
Also, do ANY of these kids have two normal par-Wait right Mike
I’ve read most of these comments so far, with a brief aside to check the real-world news.
Interesting how a few people actually defend Linda. Just goes to show, there are sick cruel wastes of oxygen everywhere.
Interesting how no one is talking about the fact that Trump is defending family separation at the border. That is some real-world abuse. I wish I knew even one thing I could do about it. The best I can do right now is try to get other people aware of it too. You hate abuse of children? Hate Trump. Find some way to destroy what he is doing.
That look on Sal’s face in the last panel? Picture that look on the faces of a thousand children ripped away from their parents. Real, living children. Some of whom are told that their parents don’t love them anymore. Some of whom are put up for adoption by our government. Some of whom are injected with psychoactive drugs.
There are a few in this comment section who are already taking action to help children in need. There are some who don’t have the emotional resources to do more right now. For the rest – if you are not active, please look for a way to get active.
There’s a lot of energy here tonight. Let’s see if we can actually do something with it.
The fact that nobody is talking about it here doesn’t mean nobody here is talking about it. This place is for discussing the comic, I discuss the foreign and domestic policy disasters of America other places unless a strip directly relates to them. Trust me, I have the capacity to hate both Linda and the braying orange jackass. So stop tone policing the discussion of Linda’s child abuse.
People ARE talking about it, just not here. This is a comment section for the comic, not for IRL politics. That gets discussed elsewhere. I see stuff about it at least every other day on tumblr. They’ve been talking about it for ages now- at least a few months. It’s not new.
I figure this might be a good place to start.
(To be clear, I’m not trying to be snarky or critical by showing a google search. Just trying to offer it as a general lifehack for where to go when you don’t know where to go.)
Reltzik, thank you. That does help.
Everyone else, I am not tone policing anything. I am not saying you are wrong for focusing on the comic here. Sorry if i sounded that way. Don’t tone police me either. Lots of people bring their real world stuff to this comment section. If you don’t like what I’m saying, why does it bother you?
Bruh. How can you look at what you wrote and not see how critical it comes across? Whatever your intentions, what you said comes across as very judgmental that people are talking about a comic (on the page dedicated TO the comic) instead of IRL politics.
When people bring IRL stuff to the comic, it usually relates to the topic OF the comic. For example, there are people here talking about their own abusive parents. Or when sexual assault is mentioned, people will talk about that. Or transphobia. The abduction of children isn’t the topic of this comic, so of course no one’s going to talk about it.
You are not being tone policed here. This is, simply put, not the most appropriate avenue to talk about this topic, as it has 0 connection with the comic itself. And whether you intended to or not (and its reading like the former), you used emotionally manipulative phrasing and imagery in your posts.
“Interesting how no one is talking about Trump defending family separation at the border” because its not relevant to the topic of the strip and isn’t the right platform for that.
“That look on Sal’s face in the last panel? Picture that look on the faces of a thousand children ripped away from their parents. Real, living children.” Full on you are being manipulative here and guilty tripping commenters focusing on the strip’s content and not the real world events that are happening right now.
These conversations are happening elsewhere, but just not here. Because the comment section of a webcomic is not the most appropriate platform to have this conversation. And personally, out of respect for Willis and his work, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask that discussion at least stay tangentially related to the comic whose site we are on.
I mean, occasionally a bit of unrelated news or political info gets shared in the comments section, but you’re right, it’s unfair to try to shame people for not having brought it up.
Especially when it has come up, and there’s nothing new to add today.
We totally are outraged and capable of focusing on multiple things at once. The racial subtext of Linda’s treatment of Marcie is clear and related, but the institutionalized abuse is so far beyond the scope of this one-on-one parent-on-child abuse it isn’t really comparable the same way talking about conversion therapy was relevant in the Toedad stuff.
By all means, be outraged about it. We should be. But in this case it’s really apples to giant carnivorous plant, which is why I think it hasn’t come up yet and why people are reacting like it’s a derail here. The detainment policy is relevant because Linda’s attitude towards Marcie is how they’re justifying the shit, not because both it and this strip depict abuse of children. This is intensely personal; what’s going on with family separation is horrifying because it’s inherently impersonal.
We’re also not debating single-payer health care or the situation in Syria. Shame on us?
That’s not okay.
And while we’re at it, can we take a look at how dismissive and patronizing that “You’re thirteen. No, you won’t.” is?
First you basically steal money your daughter has worked her ass off for *to help someone else* and then you insult her by dismissing her rage like she’s a toddler who’s mad because they wanted grape jelly, not strawberry.
I’m not saying I want Linda to die in a fire, but I won’t shed any tears if she does.
And you know what? If my three year old was screaming because I gave them the wrong jelly or because they wanted the green cup instead of the red cup (or whatever) and swearing that they hated me forever – I might roll my eyes and think “No, you won’t” in my head, but I’d work darn hard not to say it aloud. It never helps.
Right?
Even when you know it’s a toddler tantrum you don’t do this!
My toddler is very theatrical. If I get him the “wrong” item, he will pretend to die by throwing himself on the floor and start rolling around saying “ow”. Generally, the conversation is about expressing ones self constructively vs his feelings are Not Real or Lesser. A big part of this, is how dismissive my parents were. If I expressed anything with feelings, it was Not Real because I was emotionally compromised. To them, feelings clouding my reasoning vs being caused by understanding. I have zero problem my child is angry and frustrated with misunderstandings and wanting to exert control over choices while he is working out his language center. I do have a problem with him expressing himself in such a way it hinders a solution (him trying to become part fish while “dying”.
Well this comic took a hard left into “Child Abuse 101”.
not like it’s the first time it does, tho
More like a gradual turn with a whole bunch of signs warning “Child Abuse Ahead”.
Narrator : yes, she will.
Man, the Walkerton dad is such a carpet.
This is several level of awful. Like, it’s almost cartoonish? I swear I don’t want to be disrespectful, but it simply does not seems realistic to me to do something like that? Anyone can partake case that might be close to it (though I hope none like that actually exist).
LeslieBean4Shizzle in reply to wheelpath’s chain near the top, has stated something similar has in fact happened to them at least in terms of cash volume.
And honestly… I’m not surprised. I’ve read tips from abused people to abused kids and it includes more cartoonish sounding things like parents using literal trip wires. Sometimes cartoons. Are not unrealistic in the depths of evil some people are willing to go to.
Thanks.
This is actually really common as a way for parents to establish control. Not usually over medical bill money, but often over entirely benign things.
Or parents who help themselves to their children’s savings as a “stop gap” that they will surely pay back! Which should only be acceptable if you are making the choice between your family having food/shelter moving forward, or not. And even in that dire situation, should be explained and apologized for, not taken as a “right.”
My dad used to get me birthday gifts for himself. Surprise you wanted a camera! But it’s really expensive, so it’s only 2/5 yours and you don’t get to use it because that might ruin my 3/5 use. I wasn’t allowed to have emotions, because if I expressed my opinions while emotional, they were obviously wrong and compromised vs my feelings coming about from understanding of a horrible situation. My parents refuse to remember certain dental procedures I had, because my mouth couldn’t have been that bad since they took care of me. Even though I maintained my own dental appointments in my own. I was studying for a calculus test at school and my mom, on speaker phone in front of the majority of my classmates accused me of hanging out with the wrong crowd and lying where I was so I could have sex. Why? Because my mom didn’t ever get to know my friends, so I must have made the wrong choices. I was sent to private highshool and the money that was supposed to go to college went to it so they could force me to get new friends and get into the right schools. All of this while I was the golden/only who got good grades. I wasn’t allowed to pick my activities which they will vehemently deny because they are so supportive of “my” goals. Because I couldn’t trust my parents to help when some friends were down on their luck financially, I pocketed lunch money because it went farther at the grocery store than at school and would cook and sneak out food so they wouldn’t go hungry. All of this was from 12-16 when I successfully snuck around like sal and got them to leave me alone most of the time. This doesn’t even get into when I had less control because I didn’t understand how to seek outside support.
Oh yeah, and my parents also went through trash in my room for evidence of wrong doing because I’m such a “dirty” person who can’t keep her own room straight and my dad would log in and read my emails to all my friends and use emotional black mail for that. My grandfather started keeping hold of an allowance he gave me so my dad couldn’t take it away for displeasing him. How would I displease him? by not being Cinderella while volunteering as a teenage so I could get a scholarships. Cinderella in the literal connotation where I couldn’t go out unless I finished these extra 5 chores pulled out of thin air that shouldn’t have been mine to begin with.
Wow. Sound like you managed to get out of them and manage yourself on your own, though. Hope I am getting that right. Good luck for your future.
Still very messed up and have them involved in my life because love and relationships are complicated, but much more grounded and safe, yes. Unfortunately my parents are the Good Intentions does not equal Good Actuons. The emotional and mental abuse was real but came about from their own problems and messed up back grounds. Definitely not an excuse, but I at least understand why they aren’t very functional.
Cheeses. I am so sorry you went through that, and I’m so glad that you recognise it as abuse and control. Don’t ever let anybody tell you otherwise.
As someone who grew up with abusive parents, and who somehow ended up friends with almost all people who grew up with various kinds of abusive parents, this isn’t cartoonish at all.
Honestly, when my friend group goes over to the house of the one friend with AMAZING parents (who also treat the rest of us as their kids, and actually took in at least one friend whose homophobic parents kicked them out), we all kinda look at each other as if seeing their happy, functional family is cartoonish, because it’s so far removed from the reality we grew up with that it’s tough to comprehend that some families actually LIKE each other.
Valedictorian speech (Outline)
I: Basic greeting, shout out to some friends and cool teachers
II: Down to business: talk about challenges and overcoming them
A: Challenges some of my friends faced (don’t identify who without permission)
B: Challenges I faced
III: Talk motivations, generally
A: Some people have supportive parents, source of strength
B: Some people make their own family as a source of strength
C: Some people came from bad folks and draw strength from that
IV: My own story
A: Marcie getting injured and me trying to raise money
B: Out mom for stealing the money and the racist reasons she did so
C: Point her out in the audience
D: How my hatred for her fueled my drive to succeed
V: Conclusion
A: My goals: Medical research, help Marcie talk again
B: We all have more challenges ahead
C: But now we know we have the strength to meet them
D: Best of luck to everyone and go conquer the future
E: Fuck you, mom, I still hate you forever
IV:C:i: Mention she’s only here for my brother’s graduation.
Brb, gonna join Patreon and throw all the money I can spare at Willis JUST to make this happen.
It might happen anyway, she’s the best student of the main characters, excepting Sarah, who’s not in her year.
Screw you, Linda, screw you with a massive barge-pole. Grrrrrrrrrr. (And screw you Charles too for your complicity). You should care about your children’s lives because you care about them, not because of how they make you look. And then you choose to hold this bullcrap over Sal just because you think she’s making you look bad (because everything is all about you after all). Congratulations, henceforth you are definitely and unambiguously one of the shittiest parents in this webcomic.
Good Ol’ Linda continues to be awful:
1. Daughter’s best friend gets injured and might lose her voice forever? Not only does she not lift a finger to help with the operations, but she can only see it as validation that Marcie and Sal should stop being friends. Yeah she says they are “bad for each other” but the only thing she cares about is that Marcie is a “bad influance on Sal”. Probably trying to blame all of Sal’s issues caused by her own shitty parenting on Marcie’s Hooligun Influance.
2. Reminder that a few years ahead of this, Billie gets shitfaced drunk and drives a car into a tree, almost killing the people she is with (including Alice). Linda never says that Walky should cut connections with Billie, that she is a bad influance on him and he should make better friends (she also bullied with throughout high school and did general Party Girl stuff). Billie is still the mom-approved friend and Linda’s surrogate daughter. Marcie… got beat up and her parents are illegal immigrants and that’s enough to make her something Sal should stay away from.
3. AAaaaaand she also violates her daughter’s privacy and sense of personal property. She just fucking searched Sal’s room and found something that she CLEARLY WANTED TO KEEP HIDDEN AND IN A SAFE PLACE because she’s the mom and that means she can do that (it can’t) and then she took it for herself cause lol Sal’s a kid and not a real person who actually owns stuff.
4. NOT ONLY DOES SHE NOT LIFT A FINGER TO HELP WITH MARCIE’S SURGERY SHE ACTIVELY STOPS SAL AND MARCIE FROM BEING ABLE TO AFFORD IT. SHE’S KEEPING A 13 YEARS OLD GIRL AWAY FROM HEALTHCARE BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO PUNISH HER DAUGHTER FOR NOT MAKING SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE ENOUGH FRIENDS.
5. In the Present-Day of the Comic, the Marcie\Sal friendship is not entirely healthy. Sal is too attached to the idea that it’s just her and Marcie against the world that she’s totally averse to either of them making new friends even though Marcie wants too, Sal sometimes takes Marcie for granted (Complaining about how Marcie’s security guard job ‘makes her like a cop’ as if Marcie doesn’t need the money to pay rent so she could keep living next to Sal) and so on and so fourth. None of those things factor into why this isn’t a “Healthy Friendship” in Linda’s eyes (this things doesn’t seem to be true in this point in time), it’s “unhealthy” cause Marcie is someone that is socially acceptable to beat up and Sal wants to defend her and Sal built up some violence issues that Linda’s gonna blame on a vauge “criminal influance” and not on her own shitty parenting. What Present-Day Sal needs is some more connections outside of Marcie, but they are best friends and love each other dearly and they should cut their connections entirely.
6. Linda doesn’t think about herself as a “Bad Parent”, just that Sal makes her look like one. She thinks she’s a Good Parent because she’s got all the superficial trappings of one: she’s a white middle-class lady, she doesn’t deny them food and sheltred and clothing and toys, she is proud of their achivements and she… well… she thinks she loves her children. She is so assured that she is a Good Parent by default that she never stops and think “Hey, what if what I did is bad and makes me a bad parent?” even if it’s an OBVIOUS RED FLAG THAT YOU DID SOMETHING BAD. Your daughter’s mad at you cause you stole 700$ from her that was supposed to go to her BFF’s operation? Does that mean you have honestly hurt her feelings and you might need to reconsider your options? Nah, she’s just a teenager overreacting, nothing to pay attention to. What sort of parent PAY ATTENTION to the emotions of their teenaged kids? You are a Good Parent, and therefore your decision was right and there’s no reason to second-guess it and your kid is overrreacting.
7. “I love you” this interactions and probably others like it made Sal view this as a lie, not a reassurance after an agrument. And in a way it is a lie… albit an unintentional one. Linda thinks she loves her kids, but what she loves is not the kids she actually has, but a vauge idea of what they should be. She loves an idea of a hypothetical Sal that’s well behaved and doesn’t yell at her mother and chooses better friends like Billie or Leland or some shit. She loves the idea that Walky is a kid-genius who is so smart and talented and he’s gonna be a great doctor one day and she’ll be very proud as the Good Parent of a Doctor. Just like Naomi and Ross love a hypothetical straight version of their kid, and not the actual person they have brought into the world.
(“a few years ahead of this” means “a few years after this”, I just realized that I worded it weirdly
God, you’re totally right about the Billie dynamic. That’s not something I would have considered myself and it’s totally fucked. You can’t even argue that Linda holds any of this against Billie because Billie gets an actual present in the care package
I’m not able to find a winner in the “worst parent” race. It seems like a neck and neck, photo finish between Sal/Walky, Joyce, Becky, and Amber.
I think Willis must have been bit by a parent as a child and that has forever influenced his feelings about them which is represented in his works.
But I get it. I have a love/hate relationship with my own father. More hate than love recently, since he has been more of a jerk lately (well, lately as regards to things I am currently begrudging him about at least) to my siblings. And I’m not at all a young man.
Now I’m thinking that I inadvertently excluded at least two other people from the race, but the details are all fuzzy in my head so I’m not sure.
We’ve seen good parents in this strip – most prominently the Keeners and Saruyamas – and um. This is definitely in the territory where we bring up ‘Joyce is autobiographical’. There was a blog post about the subject back at the end of the Toedad arc.
Don’t forget Ruth: Clint doesn’t get off the hook because he’s her grandparent, not parent.
I’d still put that trio: Blaine/Ross/Clint, at the worst tier. With Carol and Linda in the next. Probably Naomi as well, except that we haven’t seen as much of her.
And yeah, Willis has talked about his issues with his parents.
It’s Blaine. Blaine wins on account that he’s actually out for Amber’s suffering, unlike the others (maaaaaybe Clint, too, but no clarification on tha front).
Commentariat: “Blaine is the worst parent ever.”
Linda: “Bish, please. Hold my respectable drink because only poor people drink beer.”
Like, this is genuinely Blaine-level shit here, except Blaine would have the decency (words I never thought I’d write in that order) to not pretend he was doing it for Amber’s sake. It’s really quite amazing how every strip we think Linda has hit rock bottom, she just pulls out a higher-powered drill and goes to town. Coreward, ahoy.
On the upside, BBCC is probably immortal now. Decades from now, at her funeral, someone in the world will have but to whisper “Linda’s not that bad” and she’ll throw open the coffin lid with a yell that’ll be heard around the world: “THE FUCK SHE ISN’T, SHITHEEL!”
Linda was a nasty classicist before and what I term the “liberal racist” but this is stealing money from a charity. The fact the charity is done by her daughter is immaterial.
Yeah, never thought I’d say this about Blaine, but at least he’s up front that he thinks his financial investment in people means he gets to dictate their lives.
Now excuse me while I vomit, and then scrub my brain out.
I’d still put Blaine up a notch, but this storyline isn’t over yet.
Well, yes, Blaine is untoppable (but Ryan isn’t a parent yet, and he’s totally in the running) for the simple reason that he causes harm INTENTIONALLY. Making other people suffer is part of the endgame. I don’t think any other parental figure in DoA hits that point, and that puts them lower on the overall evil list.
This is a different axis. Blaine would never do what Linda’s doing, because he’d just take the money. Maybe he’d grandstand about it, once Amber found out. But he’d never pretend he was doing it for her own good (to Amber, anyway).
But yes, Blaine tops evil shit list on the account that the suffering is part of the goal, and he’s followed closely by Ryan, which is the same.
We know middle name Ryan’s parents are currently teaching him that when someone has the gaul to defend themselves and others you sue them.
I mean, if ANYTHING is gonna wake me up from my coffin, that’ll probably be it.
Although, that said, people defending Blaine, Ross, Mary, Ryan, etc. would probably do it too.
Not to mention IRL bigots/abusers/wilful peddlers of misinformation.
…huh, you might be right, I might be immortal.
You the know the “Heard you talking shit like I wouldn’t notice” bird that’s halfway stuck through a pane of glass?
BBCC’s reincarnation or pet, trained to find assholes defending other assholes.
Hmmm… I wonder if bongo is still censored? Time to find out. Because seriously: BIIIIIIIIIIIITCH!
Huh, turns out it is. Just not the long, drawn out permutation. Well, I can fix that:
BOOOOOONGOOOO!
I can’t think of something clever to say, I just hate Linda so much.
Ron Howard’s voice: “She did.”
Why are we not surprised that Charles is a passive doormat? He’s a passive enabler here, which is just as bad as actively contributing.
I don’t think Anthony McHenry Sr. realizes the bullet he dodged when he and Linda got divorced.
Or maybe he does. Maybe that’s why.
I hope the next strip has a sibling panel, telling me that Walky didn’t just heard all of this and still defend Linda years later…
One time when I was a kid, I had this little baby t-rex figure thing, he was right out of Jurassic Park 2. I loved that toy so much, I played with it all the time, it even joined my Barbie games. To this day, I don’t remember what angered my mom so much. Maybe I was loud, or bring a brat, or she just had a very bad day. Maybe she nearly tripped on my toys. Either way she took that beloved toy and chunked him in the garbage.
I do remember, clear as day, how it felt to sob and cry and boo-hoo over my little toy that had been thrown away. Eventually I was just so loud in the middle of the night with my crying that my dad woke up and dug the toy out of the smelly garbage for me. Despite later cleaning my dino toy up, he still carried a hint of garbage and eventually I didn’t play with him and he wound up lost like all forgotten toys.
My mom is hardly as bad as Linda, but sometimes parents just don’t have any respect for boundaries or their children’s feelings. It’s a sad, awful fact and I feel for everyone else who knows exactly what that feels like, or worse.
*gesture of support*
Augh augh ugh.
Soaring to the top of the shit list without even assaulting anyone, wow Linda.
It’s maybe especially troubling cause it’s hard to imagine how this villain is ever going to be defeated. Maybe if on Linda’s death bed Sal can go “Remember when you stole my money and ruined my friend’s life cause you didn’t think she was good enough for me and I promised I’d hate you forever and you dismissed that because you decided as a child my feelings weren’t valid? Well, what you did was wrong, and it didn’t work, and you were wrong about Marcie, and I have never stopped hating you.”
My hope is she ends up much like Blaine did in the Walkyverse – alone after her children wisely got the fuck away, and said children refusing to bury that abuse at the funeral and making shit awkward and socially unacceptable because their being here and the emotions they have over a biological parent’s death are so awkward.
You told me I was nothing, and I’ll never see the look on your face when you realize I am everything, without you. So fuck you, Dad, for taking one final thing from me. Burn in Hell.
It’s not as good as the terrible parent actually having that realization, but I’ll take emotionally healthy recovering kids over them having to spend one more moment with someone in the hopes of a revelation the shitstain’ll probably never have.
Dammit, links still broken. It’s near the end of Faz’s tag and titled Last Respects.
https://shortpacked.com/comic/last-respects
That is the correct link.
I’m fairly pleased with this comment section. I see far more folks than I expected recognizing Linda’s abuse for what it is, and far less folks essentially saying ‘yeah but she *loves* Sal so that makes it okay!’ I’m not surprised those comments exist, mind — they exist in real life too, and that’s how my own abusers kept me on the leash for so long. When you hear stuff like ‘well at least they didn’t ____ so you can’t have been *that* abused’ you end up on unstable ground, constantly questioning reality too much to even fight back. Isolation and gaslighting are a trip and a half, y’all. 0/10, do not recommend.
Now, here’s a Fun Fact: I still live with my abusers! But it’s amazing how much healthier you can be when you’re not constantly doubting your own reality. I was ‘lucky’ in that my own sibling walked through fire *with* me; I can’t imagine going through that kind of bullshit without someone physically in my home who Knew and Understood and Experienced what was going on. With that in mind, I hope future (present) Walky eventually ends up knowing and understanding more of what Sal went through, even if he didn’t experience the exact brand of shiz she did. Having someone there who can say ‘yes, that happened, I was there, and it *was* in fact as bad as you remember’ is such a dang relief and a blessing.
(Also: obligatory ‘fuck Linda, and also Charles’. Because one parent standing idly by while another is abusing a child doesn’t absolve that parent at all. Kinda the opposite! Good job, Charles, I say with 110% sarcasm.)
Glad you and your sibling are in at least better shape from the sounds of things, and seconded on the hopes Walky realizes the full extent of this fuckery someday and the fuck Charles.
I grew up in a very Christian religious household. For once, this is a story that did NOT end up with a horrific twist at the end. I actually got led away by bad influences that made me the asshole. However, the relevance here is that we did a lot of charity work and raised a lot of money.
This is STEALING FROM CHARITY. This is not stealing from Sal. Which is terrible, yes, but it seems far far more so in the way that Der Cheeto turns out to have his charities funded his campaign when the money should have gone for kids with cancer.
Wow, took over an hour just to read through the comments today. Totally worth it though, go discourse!
So, my own stupid assorted thoughts:
1) To anybody for whom this sequence felt familiar or made them think of their own home situations, I am so goddamn sorry. I hope you are, or get to a better place! Your pain is valid, never let others tell you that it’s not.
2) Establishing that Linda isn’t as bad as Blaine, Ross, Clint, etc is… not super necessary? She’s still a terrible parent regardless of how she stacks up to others. Qualifying her so specifically carries this implication that people have to limit their emotional response to her actions. Like you aren’t allowed to get too mad, because there’s worse parents? It’s like drawing a distinction between being tortured to death and just being shot (I wish I had a nicer comparison to make, but I don’t)- yes one is worse than the other but either way you’re dead. It’s important to let people have their emotional reactions to shit like this without getting bogged down in details. And hey, if there’s anyone who feels/felt they had to make that distinction because they didn’t want to seem overly outraged at Linda- it’s okay, you can hate her as much as you want!
3) Linda’s parenting is so awful and so believable at the same time. I’m simultaneously outraged at the character and impressed Willis portrayed her so well despite her rarely actually appearing.
Linda’s parenting style comes from, I think, this mentality that her children can’t make decisions on their own. She thinks they’re too young/inexperienced, missing a bigger picture, too emotional, something along those lines. So she ‘knows better’, and makes decisions for them, ignoring what they themselves want if she has to. Which I guess is normal parenting up to a point, but that mentality has a lot of damaging aspects which Linda is going in way too hard on. She’s refusing to let Sal have any agency, only trusting her own judgement that Sal has “made the wrong friends” and only cares so much because she’s a misguided kid. Linda value’s Sal’s feelings and actions so little, and her own knowledge so much, that she has no problem with taking $700 from Sal without any more thought than taking away a toy. Everything in her actions today is basically her shouting “I’m right, you’re wrong, now shut up and wait for history to absolve me”.
It’s no wonder the Walkertwins are so emotionally stunted- Linda’s tried really hard to teach them that they can’t be right about anything.
4) I really want to know the specifics of this “incident” Linda’s referencing. We know a fair amount (thanks to Packy Anderson on Patreon for reminding me what we do know), enough for me to guess that it was maybe Marcie getting hurt in retaliation for Sal defending her previously (maybe Leland was even responsible?). And the specifics couldn’t possibly justify Linda’s behavior. But still, I hope we find out.
5) There’s a ton of other points to made about Linda, and Charles, and Sal, that other people have already made better than I ever could. I really, really enjoy being able to learn as much as I do from the comic and the comments section- thank you all so much! That being said, if I got anything wrong in my prior points, do please correct me!
6) BBCC wrote and shared a really incredibly excellent bit of fanfiction further up and I am compelled to give it a shout-out. If you at all like DoA fanfic, absolutely give it a read! Just look for the extremely long post full of very good points roughly halfway up the comments.
(Apologies if I’m out of line in doing that- I’m so excited to see DoA fic!)
Thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed it. I needed to write something, I was too mad and otherwise that long comment would’ve been one long string of fuck you’s. And IKR? There really isn’t much fanfic of DoA.
I’m glad you were able to vent some frustration. Not that “one long string of fuck you’s” would have been unwarranted or anything. And hey, count me as +1 person who will be very excited if you ever decide to write more! You pretty much hit every note I’m looking for in fanfic, especially with the ending.
DoA is the first piece of media for which I’ve ever wanted to ship characters and write fanfic about them. And I know that’s a really specific-to-me case, but nonetheless when I first started looking for fic I was really surprised that there wasn’t more of it! Sometimes I wonder if people have written lots of fic, but they’re just like me and too scared to put it out in the wild. *shrug*
I was surprised by the lack of fic too! Maybe because this fanbase seems to skew older and so people are busier? I’m glad I was able to deliver something you were looking for. Not sure if Sal/Marcie’s a ship you sail in particular, but it was nice to get one of my ideas for them out there. I have a few ships I could stand to write for but they’re the one I have the most ideas for.
I have an idea for what might have happened had Sal and Marcie gone to meet her parents instead, but I’m holding that one off for a bit until I can phrase things the way I want to. Other than that ship though, there’s a few ideas I have that I might kick around.
I wonder if Carla will have a redemption arcane she pays for Marie’s surgery or something
1) Carla doesn’t need redemption, the worst she’s ever done is be mildly annoying.
2) It’s probably way too late for the surgery.
What a goddamn heartless bongo of a mother… I’d go find a lawyer and file for emancipation. 13 or not.
Unpopular opinion time: Linda is completely and totally as bad as Toedad.
A lot of people on here seem to be of the thought that Toedad is definitely worse because of the threat of physical violence he rained down upon Becky. But to me, this move by Linda is a form of emotional violence, and emotional violence is just as, if not more, damaging.
And yes, Toedad enacted emotional violence upon Becky as well.
I still think the metaphorical knife that Linda is using to carve at Sal’s heart here makes her just as bad as Toedad.
This is why I don’t really try to quantify which of the Worst Parents is The Absolute Worst. They’re all evil. The nicest thing I can say about Linda right now in this moment is that she’s not using a hostage the way Blaine, Toedad, and ‘Sir’ Clint have, but extorting her young teenage child with money she stole. (Abusing Howard when Ruth displeases him and making sure Ruth knows that? Yeah I’m counting it.)
If the only bars you can clear are things like ‘not literally taking hostages’ you are so irredeemably terrible that trying to quantify past that point is meaningless. Isolating, stealing from, and extorting your child for the same sense of control as the dude who kidnapped his child at gunpoint makes you the same exact type of shitstain and does the exact same type of long term damage. Fuck them all.
Linda’s not even clearing THAT bar. She is, de facto, holding the money hostage until Sal acquiesces to her demands.
Actually she’s sort of taking Marcie hostage.
Toedad ranks as high as he does because of what he visited upon others, same as Blaine. Linda and Naomi are awful people, Joyce’s mom also exhibits awful qualities, but none of them have assaulted people or pulled guns on people they’ve never met. Blaine and Ross did that, which puts them on a different tier. Emotional abuse is bad. Emotional abuse plus physical abuse and violent assault on strangers is that plus, like, a few more things.
You know, comics like these last few make me wonder if we will actually see the previously foreshadowed Walky/Lucy ship. I could easily see Linda being the “nobody’s good enough for my golden child” mother-in-law from hell. Dorothy was an obvious exception, but they didn’t know her for that long, and she had the good first impression of getting Walky to dress nicer and being white. Combine with the fact that Linda might meet the next girlfriend with the context of knowing Walky’s failing grades, I dunno, I just see Lucy as more likely to tick off Linda than Amber (and more likely to claim that Walky’s failing is because of her even though they met after that). Also, since Amber/Walky is made of shared self-loathing, Linda being a jerk to Amber might not tick her off so much? *shrugs*
Anyway, Linda is awful.
Mmm, I can’t wait to see Linda flip her wig on that
Sadly, I saw a much nastier reason why Linda would dislike Lucy. That she’s darker skinned than Walkerton. You know, despite being wonderful in every possible way–which would force Walky to realize his mother really is a flaming bigot.
Oh yeah, I believe it. That’s part of why, I think, narratively, it will happen. Walky’s narrative has been slowly going the trajectory where he realizes his sister is right and their mom is awful, and part of why I think the Lucy relationship might happen. They probably would be good together (at least, they could be huge dorks together) without all the crazy baggage that Walky and Amber have. And Lucy’s one of the sweetest, kindest members of the cast, but she’s dark-skinned with natural hair, and not particularly quiet which is the trifecta for bigots interpreting everything a woman of color does as horrible.
Trust me speaking from experience a 13-year-old is capable of that sort of hatred. Of course, it didn’t help that the bastard keep adding fuel to the fire. I still have nightmares regarding him.
… I’m …. I’m gonna go give my mom and dad a hug. After everything I’m reading here, they’ve earned it.
Oh and in case it’s not implied, GIGANTIC APPROPRIATE GESTURES OF SUPPORT TO LITERALLY EVERYONE HERE. I’ve a friend who’s confronting their parents over this type of gaslighting shit. Reading about all of the people who go through this, knowing it has happened to countless people as well as people I love… it’s hard. My parents haven’t always been perfect but they’re good people, and if nothing else, they have never ever done anything like this to me. Finding out that that’s not normal for everyone… well, let’s just say I’m grateful to the poster who put up that charity link.
And yeah, as for the comic… I was just going over abusive fictional parents the other day. Linda’s above Malory Archer, but she’s below Beth and Jerry Smith, pushing hard towards Cersei Lannister.
Er, unless the show drifts SIGNIFICANTLY away from the books, Cersei wasn’t an abusive parent. I mean, she was a parent and she was abusive, just not towards her kids. That she cared for the kids was pretty much her one redeeming feature.
**spoilers**
I could be wrong as I haven’t watched it but rather read about it, but if I remember right, Cersei sets Tommen and Margarey up to die in order to seize power for herself and to get back at him for drifting away from her control?
Not quite. She kills Margaery and in his grief over it, Tommen commits suicide. Whether she anticipated it or not, she’s too burned out to grieve much over him at that point.
I’d argue Cersei gets fairly abusive in AFFC. At the very least, she gives Tommen a lot of grief for being sick at Tywin’s funeral (he was 8) and there was another instance where she ordered him to whip one of his friends until he bled and, were Tommen to protest, to have his friend’s tongue removed in front of him.
Yeah, she pushes more towards emotional abuse after Joffrey dies. And if nothing else, while she DOES love her kids, she’s a terrible mother.
Fair enough, maybe “bad fictional parents” would have been a better choice of words.
I HATE LINDA I HATE LINDA I HATE LINDA I HATE LINDA I HATE LINDA I HATE LINDA I HATE LINDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What kind of monster steals hardworked money from their children? What kind of evil monster mocks a girl that was injured in her throat? Linda, you are a victim blaming bastard, and Sal was right about you! Because of you Sal became a cynnical jerk that got her hand stabbed, and Walky became a manchild with a lot of insecurities! I hope you burn in hell!
Today’s strip puts this strip in a whole new light, and not a healthy one.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
she’s literally exactly like my mom i’m going to fucking. fuck. too many violent impulses.
Families are complicated. After all this and more, Sal still wants Linda’s approval and love. She will dress up as a “good girl” and get her hair straightened. She will work for good grades in college, though college might not be her choice right now. All told, she is better to Walky than he has any right to expect, considering the favoritism she endured.
*SUPER TEARS*
I’m sorry for being so aggressive earlier, but people saying that outright physical violence or abuse somehow outranks emotional or mental is a sticking point for me, and I’m going to lay down exactly why it’s a horrible equation to write.
Sal and Marcie are the two major characters in this arc with major physical disabilities. Sal wears gloves at all times (even when she sleeps, goddammit) and can no longer effectively play bass guitar, and Marcie can’t speak.
This happened because of the institutional racism in Indiana. Instead of Leland being punished as the bully he is, Marcie was shunned. Instead of Sal’s diligence and patience being rewarded (basically the second I had a debit card I’ve been really bad with money my entire life since. Sal is kicking ass), this horror show happened. Can you believe that Charles sits there as Sal calls his wife’s hypocrisy out and she just ignores it? Just shouts over Sal?
And now Marcie can’t talk and Sal can’t play music like she used to. How fucking dare you compare them to Becky and say Becky had it worse when your meter is physical condition?
Go reread the link OBBWG posted. Sal has her right arm behind her back the entire time she’s in that horrible uniform. I’m done here.
Holy fuck I never noticed that.
Well now I’m gonna hug my parents and puke.
Yeah, as someone who has a physical disability that causes chronic pain, and also has experienced emotional abuse/depression/anxiety, I can confidently say that emotional abuse/emotional damage can be just as debilitating as physical damage.
Read this just after midnight and was too angry to comment. Just read it again, about 12 hours later… still too angry to post anything useful or helpful.
I’m not sure why this strip triggers me so badly, as no one has ever, AFAIK, done this to me or my siblings that I don’t have. (No, I’m not being sarcastic, in case it came across that way. I’m an only child)
Have you ever seen someone do something horrible, something evil, for nothing else but a personal mental gain? An invisible point on an invisible scoreborard that was put up there by a betrayal you could (but maybe not would) kill someone over?
I sincerely sincerely hope Sal calls Linda out on the lifetime of abuse she’s suffered.
I dunno, judging by Linda’s “I’m always right and I know what’s best” attitude, it probably wouldn’t help, and might actually make things worse for Sal. Some people will never admit to wrongdoing, and Linda seems like that type of person.
Speaking from personal experience, when you call out a person like that on their behavior, they tend to turn it around, guilt trip you, and make you feel even WORSE, especially if they’re still holding you emotionally hostage via their approval. I’ve learned from experience that the only way to deal with people like that is get some space from them, and get your life out of their control as soon as you can. Therapy with a compassionate therapist to help you realize your self-worth is NOT dependent on their approval also does wonders.
Wow I wasn’t expecting to see my mom in this comic. This was a bit nauseating.
Well… at least none of the panels are red, right? So, not triggering?
Although, TBH, Sal looks like she’s at red-panel-inducing levels of rage right now. So… maybe these AREN’T Sal’s memories we’re seeing right now? Maybe they’re Linda’s? Or Walky’s? Or perhaps Charles’? Let’s find out who the scene cuts to…
Right, I don’t have Patreon. *sigh*
damn, Linda just made me so ANGRY!
Dumbing of Age, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying And Hate The Parents
The progression in the last three Sal panels is amazing. Great stuff, Willis.
I think this might be one of Linda’s biggest regrets when she looks back. I am assuming she’s coming from a place of love & is just doing something horrible because she’s desperate & blind to how shitty it is. If she never realizes how bad it is then Sal really will hate her forever.
Yeah, Linda, there’s “hey your friendship with this person is probably not good for you” and then there’s taking the 700 dollars your 13 year old daughter has saved up to do the right thing and help someone and taking it, all while denying her her emotional response to the situation and telling her to “just get better friends.”
No having her seek therapy when there’s clearly something going on. No comfort. No letting shit down gently.
To a thirteen year old. A child.
Fuck off, Linda.
Did Charles say I love you or did Linda?
Linda, I think. Sounds like her to use ‘I love you’ as a weapon.
Mental note: Linda owes Sal $700.
I wonder how much of Linda and Charles behavior has influenced Walkys ideas of what a man should be.
Charles appears (though to be fair we haven’t seen a lot of him) to be a bit of a pushover (or laid back) and is letting Linda run things so I’m wondering if Walkys version of masculinity is a reaction to how Charles acts
I’d wouldn’t say it influenced walky as a reaction/counter too it, but Charles passivity certainly influenced walky.
For all his constant boasting about being a man and the insecurities he has about anything he sees as even slightly girly, Walky is just as passive and Ambitionless as Charles and does just do what people tell him and meanders through life
That’s pretty cold of a mother to do that. Or at least do anything other than insist it go in a bank acct. in Sal’s name.
This is… way more familiar than I wish it was. I’ve commented on parallels between shitty parents here and mine already but…fuck. Linda is my dad here. I am surprised she isn’t threatening to burn the cash if Sal doesn’t keep a civil tongue in her head. My dad would’ve.
Ever have one of those, “Wait, that was actually really shitty” moments when something makes you reevaluate a big part of your childhood? Yeah. I am having one. And need to go play video games to distract from the eeeeee my anxiety makes over the prospect.
Like this is not the first time one of these comments reminded me of my childhood but it IS the first time it induced literal flashbacks of Dad burning my things/thowing out my things/stealing my things/threatening me with abandonment/etc. I feel sick and shakey.
Willis, if this comes from a place in your past I am sorry.
Strips, rather. Not comments.
hey bud, i hear ya. (tip: look into cPTSD, it’s eye opening)
One thing I’ve learned… never tell your kids who they should or shouldn’t be friends with. Kids, and people, find the friends they do, because of shared experiences or mutual understandings. They fill a void in a way that family can’t. Family is the round hole and peg… but friendships are the square hole, and when other people are only offering the triangle peg, that won’t work.
Everytime a parent tells their child (who has hit the age of reason) that they can’t be friends with someone… all you do is strengthen their resolve to be their friend. Because how dare you tell anyone that they aren’t allowed the square peg, that they aren’t allowed to be happy on their own terms?
It never ends well. Ever.
F that. And F Linda.
….Are there any…GOOD parents in this universe?
Noooooooo? Maybe Mike’s?
I mean… Dorothy’s seem fine, as do Danny’s. Mike’s parents are bundles of love and joy as always. Amber’s mom and Joyce’s dad are doing their best. Carla’s folks have only appeared in Patreon strips (which I consequently have not read) but I understand they’re pretty good.
Interesting how goodness-of-parents (discounting individual parents) seems to be inversely correlated to plot relevance.
Danny’s are kinda crappy (they’re apparently always insulting him) but Roz’s step dad and mom seem okay as well, and Sierra’s are pretty great.
Am not a fan of how Dorothy’s parents persistently minimize her ambition and tend to be patronizing about it but thet seem otherwise ok.
Well I mean “comic where everyone’s parents are loving and supportive and supportive inflicted no lasting childhood trauma” just doesn’t sound as interesting
Also while I don’t thing my mom is abusive (?) This strikes me as something she would do
Dina’s are pretty fantastic. Reminder they dropped $200 on her and Becky because their daughter had a girlfriend.
I just want to offer my support to anybody who’re struggling with being reminded of their parents here. You didn’t deserve it.
Thanks.
Thank you. 🙂
Reminds me of my shitty aunt who stole my shit for being bisexual. That woman took the phone I was paying the bill for and didn’t ever fucking give it back.
For me this is where Flashback!Linda goes from “overly judgmental but I can at least see rational concerns underlying this” to “Oh Holy Shit Lady please escort yourself to the nearest fire, die in it, go directly to hell, and never stop burning.”