Wrong they are both specil flavor version of that non introduced character that’s exactly in the middle of ehm size wise, and while being th the classic got disfranchised because the new size/flavor variants were more popular
Gotta admit, if I were Joyce I would totally read way too far into Jacob actually purchasing a bottle of grape juice like that. And now I suddenly feel uncomfortable with how dangerously close she’s probably feeling. Remember when DOA drama seemed like a distant memory?? :F
If Jacob is anything like me (and he and I share quite a bit of personality traits, I’m learning in this arc, though so far he’s a very clearly much better and better looking version of the person I am), he’s very flirty when he doesn’t intend to be. If he’s further like me, his actual active attempts at flirting suck entirely.
That can depend on the friends though. Whenever me and my best friend go somewhere together, we get comments along the lines of “How long have you two been together?” or when among other friends “I had no idea you had become a couple.” Apparently, although our relationship is completely platonic, we are utterly incompetent at conveying it.
The line between what is flirty ribbing and what is friendly ribbing exists basically only in the minds of the people involved, and whether or not they want to fuck each other. It is sometimes the case that the two people’s desires to fuck do not line up equally; this has been the cause of Many Problems.
By which point you’ll be wearing purple or even gold boots. On the plus side, you can still sell the super-green boots for almost enough gold that it was worth it!
Fun story: Years back, I bought my Born-Fucking-Extra-As-Shit Friend a pair of ruby slippers from a recreation site. She wore them all the fucking time after. The whole group were various shades of the rainbow, and her favorite fucking joke after she got those shoes was whenever someone inquired after one of us (The “So, are you….uhhh…” you know the one) she would grab whoever was being questioned and go “You could say they’re a /friend of Dorothy/” while raising her leg (she was an actress/dancer in her spare time). She loved this joke.
Spousal Ms ValdVin is a big Oz fan. Books (some first editions), movies, books about the books and film, dolls and collection pieces, autographs of six people who worked on the movie, goes to conventions, etc.
She says a third of the IWOC membership are gay men, and when they get together, “Friend of Dorothy” is used very little, with the exception of scholarship and lecture on Oz and gay culture. That subject, though, takes a back seat to the movie, Baum’s own life, and the history of illustrators and writers who have been authoized to create further works.
I automatically googled “Village Pantry Bloomington”, and then it struck me — I know more about the physical environs of IUB than I remember about the actual college where I was a freshman and sophomore. (A small liberal-arts college in the Twin Cities — that should narrow it down.)
For our foreign friends, there are about twenty small liberal arts colleges in the Twin Cities. I can think of 5 off the top of my head and I’m not even from the right state.
Yep. That’s basically her ploy. She figures she’s got no chance, but she can deal with him hooking up with Ms. Purity there, and it’ll make … her… rival person who’s name I’ve forgotten and I can’t be arsed to look up… go insane.
Yes, it has been shown before that Sarah is no longer interested in pursuing Jacob herself after he discussed how he is objectified and that he would completely find a few one-night stands with her unsatisfying as a relationship. Spiting Raidah in a way that leaves Jacob miserable is not a desired result.
So instead she is trying to set up Joyce and Jacob who have a natural chemistry, get along in a friendly manner and could be a very strong and happy relationship together while misleading Joyce into thinking it is for herself and misleading Jacob just in general here that this is hanging out and being friends, rather than a handful of people trying to manipulate his love life.
Raidah is included in the people trying to manipulate him as well, by holding his brother over his head to make him study instead of hang out with people and by not sharing her actual feelings with him, likely in part because before she said she didn’t get jealous and he has had trouble with jealous exs before. But this kind of omission tends to bite you later when they catch you lashing out or overreacting to small things later on in ways you didn’t want them to see.
I’m not sure that penis is really a selling point at this moment in Joyce’s repression. It’s probably more abs, shoulders, and kissing. I mean, unless she wants him to rub his thingie on her tummy.
Yeah, about that.. Depending on (or perhaps despite) her “safe search” options, she may now have an unrealistic idea of the average ‘thingie’. Cue Joyce finally seeing ‘it’ and saying “It’s very nice, but much smaller than I expected”. Which is never a positive step. 🙂
Jacob doesn’t church wrong, he churches differently. Different can be fixed (or accepted), and at least he’s still mainstream Christian (a little more mainstream than Joyce from my “evil furriner” perspective). Now if he was Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Taoist, Hindu, or *gasp* Catholic, it’d be a deal breaker. This, this can be worked on from the Joyce perspective.
It’s been shown repeatedly, and Willis has mentioned several times in stories, that Joyce’s brand of Christian view other types of Christian as more threatening than someone with just completely different beliefs.
The latter can be easily dismissed, while the former – clearly worshipping and believing in the same God, just in a different way – promote dangerous and sinful behaviors like doubting and asking questions, perhaps even leaving the tribe!
Hehe, I wonder if this is Jacob making a goodwill gesture, or just him jumping at an opportunity to razz Joyce. Either way’s fun.
Also, I didn’t even think of it from Becky’s perspective here, but that’s a good point. Two academics, both are also athletic (Jake is Jake, Dorothy’s a runner), and they are also both hard workers. Hell, they even have both demonstrated a desire for frank conversation, they like to be pretty direct when possible.
I try to pinpoint the difference, and I think it is Dorothy’s constant attempt to help people and reach outside of her comfort zone to do it. Jacob is decent enough and helpful enough to the people he encounters, but we have not seen him walk that extra mile.
Which is totally cool, but it dings him a few step lower on the “Bagge-aproval-meter”
In my book, that’s not really reaching out to someone who needs help, that’s just doing a cool thing for a friend – which again is totally fine, just not the thing I talked about with Dorothy (her drinking jet fuel with Billie in the murder cave is more like it).
Oh, and we completely disagree weather or not what Jacob is doing is “flirting” or not, but that’s neither here nor there 🙂
I don’t think Jacob has a lot of friends. We never really see him outside of class with anyone but Raidah and Ethan -with whom he rooms-, and sometimes Joe. It seems he gets so focused in his studies (partially at Raidah’s insistence) that he is a bit lacking in that respect. I think he would go the extra mile for those around him, if only he were to actually look up from his books.
A Christian male Dorothy? He IS perfect for Joyce!
I ship it. I’ve been shipping it all chapter. (Though I’d be happy if he ended up with Sarah too simply because he is WAY too good for Raidah and deserves better.)
Yes, we have been shown this previously. She knows one-night stands (which is what she would want) are not what Jacob would want after he talked about how he is usually objectified. So she is trying to set up Joyce and Jacob because in the case that it all worked out, Joyce and Jacob would be happy, Raidah would be sad, and the relationship they have would not compromise Jacob and Joyce’s emotional needs.
I love how Becky’s like ‘yep, Joyce’s got a type’. And she’s totally right, of course! A boy Dorothy is exactly who Joyce would fall for. Really too bad he’s not currently single. And he’s not gonna be single any time soon, either. Even if he did break up with Raidah and everything went smoothly (but when does it ever?), we could MAYBE expect some movement on the Joycob (is that the ship name, what is the name?) front approximately in September 2018, Earth time. MAYBE.
Yeeup – Becky should be aware that Jacob is in a relationship…
*sigh*
I don’t like Raidah, and don’t like her attitude towards Jacob – she seems to be viewing him as a useful power-couple partner rather than a person who she likes, and I don’t think Jacob knows this – but I do think scheming to split them up and set Jacob and Joyce up isn’t great. Jacob needs to work that stuff out for himself.
And Joyce needs to realise that Sarah has acknowledged that she isn’t compatible with him, and that she likes him. Otherwise her friends meddling will push her to a freak-out.
He and Joyce appear to have cute chemistry together but she’s in denial about liking him, and he hasn’t stopped to think about how he feels about her yet because he is in a relationship that he so far believes to be based on mutual respect, understanding and liking.
My husband and I have been together for 12.5 years now. He was dating one of my friends when we first met; it took 2 years for me to think of him like that (I think the friend was engaged to the guy she was living with after him before that happened)… I can be dense sometimes 😉
But it does mean that I could see them getting to that place. On their own. Eventually. And it working well.
But I can also see them both feeling manipulated and Jacob’s trust in Joyce being undermined by her friends playing matchmaker.
Dumbing of Age mostly doesn’t do simple, uncomplicated relationships though. Probably the most simple and pure one is Becky and Dina and that’s because it’s relatively healthy. It’s still a relationship between a possibly ace girl and a recently out-of-the-closet lesbian who really isn’t ready to take a relationship physical yet. It’s a working relationship because their oddities are mutually compatible.
It isn’t great, it is extremely manipulative. If everything worked out, everyone would be happy except for Raidah. But it would still be wrong that Becky, Sarah, Billie, Joyce and Raidah were all trying to manipulate and deceive him in some way to get the end result they wanted.
I would guess that Becky cares more about the fact that it would make Joyce happy than whether it’s strictly fair to Raidah (or even Jacob). And for her part, she’s not quite in it to the point of breaking them up, she’s just trying to get him and Joyce to realize they like each other… which may be a technical point but it’s a line I can see someone drawing?
On cue I chime in to say again that I don’t see why some are getting so worked up about a couple of teens who provide opportunity for a guy who has been in a relationship for all of three weeks to realize there is someone else who might be more the person he wants.
It’s not like they are bad-talking Raidah (though Sarah would have plenty of reason to do so) or are thinking up plots to set up Raidah.
They provide an opportunity and if either Joyce or Jacob didn’t respond to that as they expected, they would stop providing more because the like and respect them. Both want Joyce to be happy and I think Sarah genuinely wants him to be happy, too. And no, I don’t see why Raihda’s happiness should be in their top ten of things to consider.
^^^ this. There has been no unethical action taken so far. Nobody was guilt-tripped, negged, set up to look bad, lied to, etc. Sure, the intent is kinda sketchy, but if you don’t know what they’re -thinking-, everything’s good?
I understand you don’t take teen relationships seriously, but they do. The relationships are real. The emotion is real. The hurt will be real.
Hell, most of the main cast relationships aren’t much older than Raidah/Jacob. Some are shorter.
Forget Raidah. Jacob will be rightfully pissed off if he realizes they’re all conspiring to break them up. Even if he doesn’t realize, a break up over another girl is likely to be messy.
Sarah’s the worst here of course: she’s not even doing it to help Joyce out, but specifically to hurt Raidah.
Except they’re not real. None of them are. They’re all just drawings and words on a screen. Fictional characters are there for you hate irrationally, or project desires that you wouldn’t project on a real person. For instance, I want Sarah and Becky to succeed because I desperately want to see raidah lose. And that’s fine, because raidahs not a real person
Well, yeah, that’s true. But that’s not the argument CJ was making and it’s not a justification Sarah could use.
It’s fine for us to want to break them up, because they’re fictional and we can sit back and enjoy the drama. It’s entirely different to say that in-world they’re not doing anything wrong.
For my part, I’ll start freaking out over Sarah’s unethical actions when she actually does something unethical.
Jacob is not a thing for other girls to steal, he makes his own choices. Sarah doesn’t even interact with him to put him up to the particular choices she wants him to make, nor does she direct Joyce. All she does is contrive so circumstances would be favorable for the two of them to like each other.
If there’s anyone in this situation Sarah’s actions are unethical towards, it’s Joyce, who’s actively being deceived (although I don’t think Sarah has been subtle about it, so that’s a misunderstanding owing entirely to Joyce’s own preconceptions). Jacob gets… a chance to hang out with a nice girl he’s interested in having as a friend.
If this setup by Sarah, Becky and Co ends up breaking up Jacob and Raidah, it’ll be because their relationship was rocky to begin with. I don’t believe you can ‘tempt someone into cheating’ by having them be around other people. ‘Seducing’ my ass.
Sarah is not setting Raidah up to look bad (although if she came to Jacob and told him her side of the story, I wouldn’t even count it), she’s not deceiving Jacob in any way, she’s not doing anything coercive at all. She’s helping one particular version of this situation unfold (the version where Joyce is nicely dressed, comes on time, and Becky does not interfere).
Sure, she’s not being a good friend to Raidah. But considering Raidah is the reason she doesnt have any friends other than Joyce’s crew… I don’t think she owes Raidah anything on that front.
Sure, the motivation to spite Raidah is ethically iffy. But it hasn’t driven Sarah to any unethical actions so far.
Muscle mass isn’t anywhere near 1.5 times as dense as other tissue – it’s more like 1.05 times as dense (with the caveat that there’s some variety in other tissue).
Oh, yes Becky, you definitely worked your magic, getting two people who clearly enjoyed one another’s company to admit that they find admirable qualities in one another.
What instructions, exactly, did Sarah give Becky? “Don’t get jealous”?
We got a closeup of the bottle. It’s not the Tentacle Grape brand.
I’m not sure it’s possible to draw an appropriately shocked face for her if that had been the case.
Ok I’m definitely shipping Joyce and Jacob now, partly because they have great chemistry and partly because Raidah seems like a jerk to me with how she’s treated Sarah and Dina.
I found out recently that Caesar actually said, “Let’s roll the dice” and was quoting a play of the time. In other words, instead of an awesomely portentous line, he was making a pop culture quip that he hoped things would turn out right.
If Dorothy was a big bulky dude and believed in god….holy shit every layer peeled here just makes this pairing make more sense, this is not good. I need a reason to not like this but I can’t find it Damn it !
Not only that he should be studying, but that he should be doing the thing his girlfriend wants him to do. And instead of saying “Oh, by the way, I changed my mind and did another thing instead,” he tries to hide it from her and frames it in a way that makes him disobeying her, because apparently his girlfriend has the power do decide when he should and shouldn’t study.
And that rubs me the wrong way for two reasons. 1) We have seen Raidah’s attitude to his studies and how him not “living up to his potential” is a slight towards her.
But also 2) It’s a far to common attitude among men to assign a “mom” role to their partner (which neatly give her an extra slice of domestic duties).
“Do you want to hang out tonight?”
“I have to ask ‘the boss’ for leave first.”
Jacob is far away from the worst parts of that mindset, but he still follows the script a bit too close for comfort for me.
Additional context: “She’s a freshman, a child” – “So is he!” – (unspoken)”dammit, that’s right”
Raidah is older than Jacob, and views freshmen as children. Between that and this, and Jacob being a wonderful gentleman who 100% views women as equals, it’s very likely there are… power balance issues in their relationship.
I’m starting to wonder if the angsty and annoyed Joyce pictures that we’ve been seeing previewed for early next year have been her realising that she’s attracted to Jacob and feeling guilty for jumping Sarah’s claim. The fact that this is entirely according to Sarah’s ebil plot is entirely lost on her, of course.
I’ve got to say that Jacob and Joyce’s interaction here is sweet and even innocent and friendly on several levels but there is this potential for emotional intimacy that just doesn’t exist with Raidah. If I were her, I’d be a lot more worried about Joyce because Raidah’s relationship with Jacob appears to be close to a business relationship and I don’t think that he wants that.
Becky is lovely in this strip. It shows how far she has come emotionally that she isn’t torn up with seeing Joyce potentially falling for someone else. She can say: “Yeah, Joyce is hetro and her kind of partner is a very different person from who I am” without it being too painful. She’s more focussed on her shock at what kind of personality Joyce is in to!
She seems, from her reaction upon meeting Sarah, to have a kind of low-grade racism…the sort that might explode into a higher grade kind if her daughter starts dating a black man. (Though still not the violent, racial slurs kind. Just the making excuses to exclude him and worrying overly about how their kids will turn out kind.)
Considering Joyce’s first reaction to Jacob – you would be perfect for my roommate (which I read as “holy cow your are incredibly attractive and she’s also black”) – I suspect it’s one of the things not done in Carol’s mind.
Joyce’s church doesn’t have black people in as far a we could see.
Dorothy/Joyce/Jacob poly chain?… :>
wait no it’s Walky/Dorothy/Joyce/Jacob
fine maybe even Walky/Dorothy/Joyce/Jacob/Raidah if she stops being The Worst
true enough
I’m not a fan of ‘who’s the worst’ olympics though. Like the question of who’s the worse father, Blaine or Toedad: both suck??? neither is better???
I briefly wondered what the portmanteau name was gonna be for a Jacob/Joyce ship, but then it became obvious that there really is no other answer than “Joycob”.
It’s chipper and sounds like a brand name for a supermarket repackaged corn of the cob that’s also unknowingly a mild dick-euphemism.
She’s still interested, but knows that he’s not interested in the same thing she is, so she’s given up. But she doesn’t want Raidah to have him. So she’s aimed Joyce at him, since they do seem to want generally the same thing.
Rather it’s meant to be flirting or just friendly banter, I love Joyce’s and Jacob’s chemistry. Even though Joyce tries her very best to be friends with every damn body, it seems, at least to me, that she is super comfortable and relaxed around him.
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or maybe Dorothy is the smallest Jacob?
More compact and fuel efficient.
Like a Mincon version of Jacob! A Minicob!
I’ve met smaller Jacobs than Dorothy.
But has Becky seen them??
Dorathy is a vanilla shot version of Jacob, and Jacob is the king-size chocolate bar version of Dorathy.
And Joyce somehow gets both of them in her life.
Wrong they are both specil flavor version of that non introduced character that’s exactly in the middle of ehm size wise, and while being th the classic got disfranchised because the new size/flavor variants were more popular
Gotta admit, if I were Joyce I would totally read way too far into Jacob actually purchasing a bottle of grape juice like that. And now I suddenly feel uncomfortable with how dangerously close she’s probably feeling. Remember when DOA drama seemed like a distant memory?? :F
–by which I mean major terrible decisions. I can’t be the only guy who feels like that’s been blessedly rare, mostly.
I wonder if Jacob’s conscious of how flirty he’s coming off? Probably not. Panel 2 says Joyce definitely is, though.
If Jacob is anything like me (and he and I share quite a bit of personality traits, I’m learning in this arc, though so far he’s a very clearly much better and better looking version of the person I am), he’s very flirty when he doesn’t intend to be. If he’s further like me, his actual active attempts at flirting suck entirely.
Why *is* this supposed to be flirty, though? The dialogue reads exactly like friends ribbing each other.
That can depend on the friends though. Whenever me and my best friend go somewhere together, we get comments along the lines of “How long have you two been together?” or when among other friends “I had no idea you had become a couple.” Apparently, although our relationship is completely platonic, we are utterly incompetent at conveying it.
The line between what is flirty ribbing and what is friendly ribbing exists basically only in the minds of the people involved, and whether or not they want to fuck each other. It is sometimes the case that the two people’s desires to fuck do not line up equally; this has been the cause of Many Problems.
dangit now I want grape juice
That’s funny…because now I want Jacob 😉
I guess all I’m left with is wanting the plastic cups? Drat.
I’ll take Becky!
The juice is delivered! 😀 The quest, fulfilled!
Your reward is a small amount of coin and your choice of a green-quality item.
A green quality item for every class except yours.
You can take the boots that are worse than your blue boots you got earlier in the quest
But on the bright side, they’re also the same style that you’ve collected three times already.
If you get 26 more of those, you can craft them into super-green boots that are marginally better than the boots you have currently!
By which point you’ll be wearing purple or even gold boots. On the plus side, you can still sell the super-green boots for almost enough gold that it was worth it!
Shiro, There’s another settlement that needs grape juice. Here, let me mark it on your map.
dorothree
🙂
(closest I can get to just leaving a ‘like’)
Yes.
You could fit at least three “bony Poindexters” in there.
In fact, that’s how he got so big in the first place.
He’s actually made up of five bony poindexters – kind of like Voltron.
By your powers combined- I am Captain Plan-It!
+15 points for the pun. You can redeem 100 for a cookie of your choice, or 1000 for a single-layer cake/small pie!
I literally laughed out loud at this pun, thank you.
seems like getting two or more consecutive strips with danny in them continues to be exceedingly rare
Perhaps Willis follows the Law of Conservation of Dannys.
Calling a guy a “Dorothy” means…something else in *my* community. 😉
I thought that was “friend of Dorothy”
But then, there are the guys who take it a step farther… 😉
Fun story: Years back, I bought my Born-Fucking-Extra-As-Shit Friend a pair of ruby slippers from a recreation site. She wore them all the fucking time after. The whole group were various shades of the rainbow, and her favorite fucking joke after she got those shoes was whenever someone inquired after one of us (The “So, are you….uhhh…” you know the one) she would grab whoever was being questioned and go “You could say they’re a /friend of Dorothy/” while raising her leg (she was an actress/dancer in her spare time). She loved this joke.
All our friends blamed me for forever.
The best part with that jokes is that it never gets old
Spousal Ms ValdVin is a big Oz fan. Books (some first editions), movies, books about the books and film, dolls and collection pieces, autographs of six people who worked on the movie, goes to conventions, etc.
She says a third of the IWOC membership are gay men, and when they get together, “Friend of Dorothy” is used very little, with the exception of scholarship and lecture on Oz and gay culture. That subject, though, takes a back seat to the movie, Baum’s own life, and the history of illustrators and writers who have been authoized to create further works.
Oh No
D’awww. Jacob’s a good dude. :3
*reprises “Heard It Through The Grapevine” on the hacked Muzak*
*whistles the Battle Hymn of the Republic*
*hums “Peel Me a Grape”*
CCR, or Marvin Gaye?
(Or first one, then the other?)
There’s also the Gladys Knight version, with either The Pips or The Muppets. Take your pick.
The Original Original.
Elton John does a good version.
Clearly the only correct answer is “all of the above”!
Pour a libation for village pantry! After a few dozen sips, of course. :p
I automatically googled “Village Pantry Bloomington”, and then it struck me — I know more about the physical environs of IUB than I remember about the actual college where I was a freshman and sophomore. (A small liberal-arts college in the Twin Cities — that should narrow it down.)
AUGSBURG!!
For our foreign friends, there are about twenty small liberal arts colleges in the Twin Cities. I can think of 5 off the top of my head and I’m not even from the right state.
Ooooh so she did that because Sarah directly asked her at some point. I thought it was previously discussed
Wait, is Sarah trying to set Joyce up with Jacob? Huh. Sneaky.
Yep. That’s basically her ploy. She figures she’s got no chance, but she can deal with him hooking up with Ms. Purity there, and it’ll make … her… rival person who’s name I’ve forgotten and I can’t be arsed to look up… go insane.
Raidah
Yes, it has been shown before that Sarah is no longer interested in pursuing Jacob herself after he discussed how he is objectified and that he would completely find a few one-night stands with her unsatisfying as a relationship. Spiting Raidah in a way that leaves Jacob miserable is not a desired result.
So instead she is trying to set up Joyce and Jacob who have a natural chemistry, get along in a friendly manner and could be a very strong and happy relationship together while misleading Joyce into thinking it is for herself and misleading Jacob just in general here that this is hanging out and being friends, rather than a handful of people trying to manipulate his love life.
Raidah is included in the people trying to manipulate him as well, by holding his brother over his head to make him study instead of hang out with people and by not sharing her actual feelings with him, likely in part because before she said she didn’t get jealous and he has had trouble with jealous exs before. But this kind of omission tends to bite you later when they catch you lashing out or overreacting to small things later on in ways you didn’t want them to see.
The…road to heaven is paved with bad intentions, I guess?
So if Jacob is three Dorothys, does that mean he’s also his own six moms?
iAnd so Joyce got him drunk.
He’s Dorothy but he CHURCHES.
Well, I mean, the atheist thing, plus the lack of penis, are Dorothy’s primary negatives in Joyce’s eyes. From a romantic standpoint at least.
So I guess he’s more Dorothy than Dorothy?
I’m not sure that penis is really a selling point at this moment in Joyce’s repression. It’s probably more abs, shoulders, and kissing. I mean, unless she wants him to rub his thingie on her tummy.
Eh remember she did a google images search in the whiteboard ding-dong bandit arc, she at least knows what a ‘thingie’ actually is now
Yeah, about that.. Depending on (or perhaps despite) her “safe search” options, she may now have an unrealistic idea of the average ‘thingie’. Cue Joyce finally seeing ‘it’ and saying “It’s very nice, but much smaller than I expected”. Which is never a positive step. 🙂
A mature guy would take it in stride. Heck, even Joe probably would.
This needs to be a Rob Zombie song.
Yeah, but he churches wrong, which likely would bother her more than the not churching at all.
Jacob doesn’t church wrong, he churches differently. Different can be fixed (or accepted), and at least he’s still mainstream Christian (a little more mainstream than Joyce from my “evil furriner” perspective). Now if he was Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Taoist, Hindu, or *gasp* Catholic, it’d be a deal breaker. This, this can be worked on from the Joyce perspective.
It’s been shown repeatedly, and Willis has mentioned several times in stories, that Joyce’s brand of Christian view other types of Christian as more threatening than someone with just completely different beliefs.
The latter can be easily dismissed, while the former – clearly worshipping and believing in the same God, just in a different way – promote dangerous and sinful behaviors like doubting and asking questions, perhaps even leaving the tribe!
Hehe, I wonder if this is Jacob making a goodwill gesture, or just him jumping at an opportunity to razz Joyce. Either way’s fun.
Also, I didn’t even think of it from Becky’s perspective here, but that’s a good point. Two academics, both are also athletic (Jake is Jake, Dorothy’s a runner), and they are also both hard workers. Hell, they even have both demonstrated a desire for frank conversation, they like to be pretty direct when possible.
This is funny because I’ve thought for a while he’d be a good match for Dorothy.
I think he’d be bad for Dorothy, reinforce all the wrong things and drive each other to the breaking point by never taking breaks to just relax.
Yeah, I think a lot of people miss how unhealthy Dorothy’s current habits are for her. It kinda bugs me, actually!
Hmmmmm. I love Dorothy but I’m lukewarm to Jacob.
I try to pinpoint the difference, and I think it is Dorothy’s constant attempt to help people and reach outside of her comfort zone to do it. Jacob is decent enough and helpful enough to the people he encounters, but we have not seen him walk that extra mile.
Which is totally cool, but it dings him a few step lower on the “Bagge-aproval-meter”
In my mind, buying Joyce a grape juice goes that extra mile. He isn’t flirting, he is just being extra cool. If course Raidah may disagree.
In my book, that’s not really reaching out to someone who needs help, that’s just doing a cool thing for a friend – which again is totally fine, just not the thing I talked about with Dorothy (her drinking jet fuel with Billie in the murder cave is more like it).
Oh, and we completely disagree weather or not what Jacob is doing is “flirting” or not, but that’s neither here nor there 🙂
I don’t think Jacob has a lot of friends. We never really see him outside of class with anyone but Raidah and Ethan -with whom he rooms-, and sometimes Joe. It seems he gets so focused in his studies (partially at Raidah’s insistence) that he is a bit lacking in that respect. I think he would go the extra mile for those around him, if only he were to actually look up from his books.
Oh, and Sarah. Though she just seems to be more of someone he doesn’t mind walking after class with.
Dorothy has been in many more storylines than Jacob so far.
We’ll see. I have hope for him simply cos he seems much more level headed than I was at that spot in my life.
Absolutely, comparing the two of them is completely not fair.
And he really doesn’t HAVE to prove himself about anything. He’s completely fine. I just try sort out my feelings* for the character.
Maybe it’s as easy as I think he is “fine, I guess”, but Dorothy is HILARIOUS!
*) Feelings. Not feels. Important distinction.
I recognize your “feelings, not feels” distinction.
If Jacob is three Dorothys, that would make him approximately equal to six moms.
Does that mean Mike would do him for 30 cents?
*hey big spender!*
Mike would be delighted.
Sarah texted Becky? Was it through Dina’s phone?
Becky has her own phone now, I thought
That’s correct. She was seen using it in the grocery store.
My headcanon is still that she got it with the money Hank sent her.
certainly possible, plus she’s working at Galazzo’s.
Oh my gods how did I not see it before.
Plot twist, Jacob turns out to be three Dorothies in a trenchcoat.
hawt
a) Jacob is rocking that outfit??
b) gay subtext in the last panel there whoop whoop
The biggest Dorothy, lol
Only 3 Dorothy’s? He is easily 3.5-4 Dorothy’s. I mean, look at that chest and those biceps.
Joyce definitely is (looking).
If you don’t arrive at an even amount of Dorothys, it’s kind of a mess.
Any whole number should do, though I’d recommend five or fewer.
He’s a Dorothy/Ethan hybrid with a dose of Christianity and being into women.
A Christian male Dorothy? He IS perfect for Joyce!
I ship it. I’ve been shipping it all chapter. (Though I’d be happy if he ended up with Sarah too simply because he is WAY too good for Raidah and deserves better.)
They are wearing the same outfit too??? http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/04-the-whiteboard-dong-bandit/preposterous/
lmao this is my favorite thing
Oooooh! Nice catch. I’m sure Joyce has not noticed. Not noticed at all…
this is FANTASTIC
Holy WOW.
Really there’s just a smaller Dorothy inside Jacob working him with controls.
No it’s a little Barney! 😛
Dammit, you made me think of that Pinky and the Brain episode, and also Jitsu wa Watashi wa.
…Sarah was trying to set Jake and Joyce up?
As long as Raidah’s relationship gets broken up, then that’s all Sarah cares about.
Yes, we have been shown this previously. She knows one-night stands (which is what she would want) are not what Jacob would want after he talked about how he is usually objectified. So she is trying to set up Joyce and Jacob because in the case that it all worked out, Joyce and Jacob would be happy, Raidah would be sad, and the relationship they have would not compromise Jacob and Joyce’s emotional needs.
Book 7 saw Sarah switch from trying to take Jacob away from Raidah herself, to using Joyce as a proxy.
I love how Becky’s like ‘yep, Joyce’s got a type’. And she’s totally right, of course! A boy Dorothy is exactly who Joyce would fall for. Really too bad he’s not currently single. And he’s not gonna be single any time soon, either. Even if he did break up with Raidah and everything went smoothly (but when does it ever?), we could MAYBE expect some movement on the Joycob (is that the ship name, what is the name?) front approximately in September 2018, Earth time. MAYBE.
I think that it will be a lot farther out than that even to get to the point where Raidah starts getting overtly possessive and insecure.
Does Becky know Raidah exists? *quick check of tags*
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/relentlessly/
Yeeup – Becky should be aware that Jacob is in a relationship…
*sigh*
I don’t like Raidah, and don’t like her attitude towards Jacob – she seems to be viewing him as a useful power-couple partner rather than a person who she likes, and I don’t think Jacob knows this – but I do think scheming to split them up and set Jacob and Joyce up isn’t great. Jacob needs to work that stuff out for himself.
And Joyce needs to realise that Sarah has acknowledged that she isn’t compatible with him, and that she likes him. Otherwise her friends meddling will push her to a freak-out.
Yeah this whole thing seems to be written as a cute romance but it’s really kind of messed up?
He and Joyce appear to have cute chemistry together but she’s in denial about liking him, and he hasn’t stopped to think about how he feels about her yet because he is in a relationship that he so far believes to be based on mutual respect, understanding and liking.
My husband and I have been together for 12.5 years now. He was dating one of my friends when we first met; it took 2 years for me to think of him like that (I think the friend was engaged to the guy she was living with after him before that happened)… I can be dense sometimes 😉
But it does mean that I could see them getting to that place. On their own. Eventually. And it working well.
But I can also see them both feeling manipulated and Jacob’s trust in Joyce being undermined by her friends playing matchmaker.
Dumbing of Age mostly doesn’t do simple, uncomplicated relationships though. Probably the most simple and pure one is Becky and Dina and that’s because it’s relatively healthy. It’s still a relationship between a possibly ace girl and a recently out-of-the-closet lesbian who really isn’t ready to take a relationship physical yet. It’s a working relationship because their oddities are mutually compatible.
It isn’t great, it is extremely manipulative. If everything worked out, everyone would be happy except for Raidah. But it would still be wrong that Becky, Sarah, Billie, Joyce and Raidah were all trying to manipulate and deceive him in some way to get the end result they wanted.
I would guess that Becky cares more about the fact that it would make Joyce happy than whether it’s strictly fair to Raidah (or even Jacob). And for her part, she’s not quite in it to the point of breaking them up, she’s just trying to get him and Joyce to realize they like each other… which may be a technical point but it’s a line I can see someone drawing?
On cue I chime in to say again that I don’t see why some are getting so worked up about a couple of teens who provide opportunity for a guy who has been in a relationship for all of three weeks to realize there is someone else who might be more the person he wants.
It’s not like they are bad-talking Raidah (though Sarah would have plenty of reason to do so) or are thinking up plots to set up Raidah.
They provide an opportunity and if either Joyce or Jacob didn’t respond to that as they expected, they would stop providing more because the like and respect them. Both want Joyce to be happy and I think Sarah genuinely wants him to be happy, too. And no, I don’t see why Raihda’s happiness should be in their top ten of things to consider.
^^^ this. There has been no unethical action taken so far. Nobody was guilt-tripped, negged, set up to look bad, lied to, etc. Sure, the intent is kinda sketchy, but if you don’t know what they’re -thinking-, everything’s good?
I understand you don’t take teen relationships seriously, but they do. The relationships are real. The emotion is real. The hurt will be real.
Hell, most of the main cast relationships aren’t much older than Raidah/Jacob. Some are shorter.
Forget Raidah. Jacob will be rightfully pissed off if he realizes they’re all conspiring to break them up. Even if he doesn’t realize, a break up over another girl is likely to be messy.
Sarah’s the worst here of course: she’s not even doing it to help Joyce out, but specifically to hurt Raidah.
Except they’re not real. None of them are. They’re all just drawings and words on a screen. Fictional characters are there for you hate irrationally, or project desires that you wouldn’t project on a real person. For instance, I want Sarah and Becky to succeed because I desperately want to see raidah lose. And that’s fine, because raidahs not a real person
Well, yeah, that’s true. But that’s not the argument CJ was making and it’s not a justification Sarah could use.
It’s fine for us to want to break them up, because they’re fictional and we can sit back and enjoy the drama. It’s entirely different to say that in-world they’re not doing anything wrong.
For my part, I’ll start freaking out over Sarah’s unethical actions when she actually does something unethical.
Jacob is not a thing for other girls to steal, he makes his own choices. Sarah doesn’t even interact with him to put him up to the particular choices she wants him to make, nor does she direct Joyce. All she does is contrive so circumstances would be favorable for the two of them to like each other.
If there’s anyone in this situation Sarah’s actions are unethical towards, it’s Joyce, who’s actively being deceived (although I don’t think Sarah has been subtle about it, so that’s a misunderstanding owing entirely to Joyce’s own preconceptions). Jacob gets… a chance to hang out with a nice girl he’s interested in having as a friend.
If this setup by Sarah, Becky and Co ends up breaking up Jacob and Raidah, it’ll be because their relationship was rocky to begin with. I don’t believe you can ‘tempt someone into cheating’ by having them be around other people. ‘Seducing’ my ass.
Sarah is not setting Raidah up to look bad (although if she came to Jacob and told him her side of the story, I wouldn’t even count it), she’s not deceiving Jacob in any way, she’s not doing anything coercive at all. She’s helping one particular version of this situation unfold (the version where Joyce is nicely dressed, comes on time, and Becky does not interfere).
Sure, she’s not being a good friend to Raidah. But considering Raidah is the reason she doesnt have any friends other than Joyce’s crew… I don’t think she owes Raidah anything on that front.
Sure, the motivation to spite Raidah is ethically iffy. But it hasn’t driven Sarah to any unethical actions so far.
Guesstimating weight by volume, he’s more like 2 Dorothies. Buuuuut he’s a much higher proportion of muscle mass, so maybe 3 is about right.
Muscle mass isn’t anywhere near 1.5 times as dense as other tissue – it’s more like 1.05 times as dense (with the caveat that there’s some variety in other tissue).
Fat is only 85% as dense as muscle (and while Dorothy isn’t FAT-fat, she’s pretty curvy). …. so, okay, that’s not 66%, but it’s still significant.
Well don’t be sad. ‘Cause two out of three Dorothies ain’t bad.
“He’s big enough to be Dorothy’s mom.
He’s like, two off Dorothy’s moms.
So I got them drunk!
On grape juice!”
Well if you leave grape juice long enough it would become alcoholic. (Though drinking it might not be that healthy)
I thought they treated it with something so it couldn’t do that?
Referencing this.
that’s his juice-bringin’ outfit
Hey! Jacob can fit at least 4 Dorothys in his skin!
Well, YEAH. Once you get the skin off the body you can reshape it to drastically increase the volume enclosed.
…..
Pleasant dreams!
There’s at least one Dorothy for each shoulder!
Oh, yes Becky, you definitely worked your magic, getting two people who clearly enjoyed one another’s company to admit that they find admirable qualities in one another.
What instructions, exactly, did Sarah give Becky? “Don’t get jealous”?
“Scram and make it a date in a way that makes them not panic upon realizing they’re flirting”
Is that grape-JUICE or the infamous grape-DRINK?
Pretty sure Welch’s has more ingredients than water, sugar, and purple.
Never heard of that brand as I’m Australian.
Thomas Welch popularized non-fermented grape juice, for just the context that Joyce expects it in.
I know Australia makes some good wine, but do they grow Concord grapes (the purple, grape juice variety) in any quantity?
Neither, it’s vodka with grape flavor.
We got a closeup of the bottle. It’s not the Tentacle Grape brand.
I’m not sure it’s possible to draw an appropriately shocked face for her if that had been the case.
So Becky is still jealous of Dorothy and she’s probably jealous as hell of Jacob. I feel bad for her. This story line is just bad feelings all around.
Ok I’m definitely shipping Joyce and Jacob now, partly because they have great chemistry and partly because Raidah seems like a jerk to me with how she’s treated Sarah and Dina.
The die is cast
Sunday is cleaning day, so of course they’ll sprue-ce the place up.
I found out recently that Caesar actually said, “Let’s roll the dice” and was quoting a play of the time. In other words, instead of an awesomely portentous line, he was making a pop culture quip that he hoped things would turn out right.
(it’s a lost art)
If Dorothy was a big bulky dude and believed in god….holy shit every layer peeled here just makes this pairing make more sense, this is not good. I need a reason to not like this but I can’t find it Damn it !
It’s so good that I can’t help but wonder if Willis is planning to tack the ‘too good a friendship to ruin it with sex’ trope onto it!
I have never in my life been so proud of sarah
Because she’s putting Joyce and Jacob together? Have you considered that she might be doing it to get at Raidah?
Eh. I was prouder when she couldn’t go through with cute-ing at Jacob.
Or when she apologized to Joyce for a callous remark, then gave her “little sister” a hug and a promise she really really needed.
Aha, they were colluding.
Becky, the scarily competent romantic busybody, apparently now takes commissions. THAT IS NOT GOOD.
But dang it, I can’t deny that I enjoy Sarah’s “a job well done” face
No commission, this was strictly Pro-Bono.
…. not sure if Sonny or U2.
How much does she charge for commissions? God knows I need the help
A packet of Arbys sauce is the going rate, as far as I hear.
But be careful what you wish for. If Becky is on the case there WILL be shenanigans. No exception.
“I’m here on violation…. because apparently me and my girlfriend have the BEST dynamic”
oh my god I only just realized that Jacob feeling like he’s doing something wrong by not studying right now is the result of Raidah’s attitude
augh
Partly. I suspect he’d be like that anyway.
Raidah’s definitely encouraging it though.
Not only that he should be studying, but that he should be doing the thing his girlfriend wants him to do. And instead of saying “Oh, by the way, I changed my mind and did another thing instead,” he tries to hide it from her and frames it in a way that makes him disobeying her, because apparently his girlfriend has the power do decide when he should and shouldn’t study.
And that rubs me the wrong way for two reasons. 1) We have seen Raidah’s attitude to his studies and how him not “living up to his potential” is a slight towards her.
But also 2) It’s a far to common attitude among men to assign a “mom” role to their partner (which neatly give her an extra slice of domestic duties).
“Do you want to hang out tonight?”
“I have to ask ‘the boss’ for leave first.”
Jacob is far away from the worst parts of that mindset, but he still follows the script a bit too close for comfort for me.
Is this “I’m violating Raidah’s orders” or “violating my own study schedule”?
I read it the second way. The way I would have read it if Dorothy had said it.
I know Raidah pushes him to study, but I think it’s also his own Dorothy nature.
I read it the first way. If you are right, my whole rant is completely irrelevant.
Compromise.
It could be both.
I read it as both.
Joyce is adorable and I’d rather she get her god damned grape juice in little cups.
HOLY FUCK YES I HAVE SAL FOR AN ICON!
Additional context: “She’s a freshman, a child” – “So is he!” – (unspoken)”dammit, that’s right”
Raidah is older than Jacob, and views freshmen as children. Between that and this, and Jacob being a wonderful gentleman who 100% views women as equals, it’s very likely there are… power balance issues in their relationship.
I’m starting to wonder if the angsty and annoyed Joyce pictures that we’ve been seeing previewed for early next year have been her realising that she’s attracted to Jacob and feeling guilty for jumping Sarah’s claim. The fact that this is entirely according to Sarah’s ebil plot is entirely lost on her, of course.
I’ve got to say that Jacob and Joyce’s interaction here is sweet and even innocent and friendly on several levels but there is this potential for emotional intimacy that just doesn’t exist with Raidah. If I were her, I’d be a lot more worried about Joyce because Raidah’s relationship with Jacob appears to be close to a business relationship and I don’t think that he wants that.
Becky is lovely in this strip. It shows how far she has come emotionally that she isn’t torn up with seeing Joyce potentially falling for someone else. She can say: “Yeah, Joyce is hetro and her kind of partner is a very different person from who I am” without it being too painful. She’s more focussed on her shock at what kind of personality Joyce is in to!
If Becky can’t have Joyce, she will make sure Joyce gets the VERY BEST!!! It’s kinda sweet in a very Joyce&Becky way.
Holy wow, is that the closest we’ve seen Joyce get to swearing when she’s the happy kind of excited?
Also I like her flustered mouth in panel two, and how she pulls it back together after that.
She’s got better control of her anger than her joy. This of course is entirely in-character for her!
It had not yet occurred to me before now: Joyce might’ve been brought up to not say “Holy…” as an interjection.
Like “Jesus!”, “Holy,,,” could have been a swear.
Also, I know that some real life people preferred the euphemistic “Cheese and crackers got all muddy!” for “Jesus Christ God Almighty!”
I’m not surprised that Becky was trying to set them up, but somehow I was not expecting Sarah to have instigated this!
On another note, Joyce and Jacob are really cute together.
And one more note, I wonder how Joyce’s Mom would react to her dating Jacob…
Instigated it as in, texted Becky to do this. I know Sarah wanted Jacob away from Raidah even if it meant Joyce got Jacob.
Her daughter dating some crypto-Catholic Episcopalian? She’d be horrified.
Genuinely not sure if anything else might be an issue; it wouldn’t surprise me if it was, but I don’t think there’s been any evidence of it thus far.
She seems, from her reaction upon meeting Sarah, to have a kind of low-grade racism…the sort that might explode into a higher grade kind if her daughter starts dating a black man. (Though still not the violent, racial slurs kind. Just the making excuses to exclude him and worrying overly about how their kids will turn out kind.)
Considering Joyce’s first reaction to Jacob – you would be perfect for my roommate (which I read as “holy cow your are incredibly attractive and she’s also black”) – I suspect it’s one of the things not done in Carol’s mind.
Joyce’s church doesn’t have black people in as far a we could see.
I love this friendship.
So Becky will be thrice as jealous of Jacob occupying Joyce’s attention.
Really now, I don’t like Sarah turning her unknowing roommate into a break-up pawn. But drama’s gotta drama.
I feel like Willis just pointed out my favorite ship, gave it partial legitimacy, then fired a canon at it before speeding away…
Dorothy/Joyce/Jacob poly chain?… :>
wait no it’s Walky/Dorothy/Joyce/Jacob
fine maybe even Walky/Dorothy/Joyce/Jacob/Raidah if she stops being The Worst
Of the main cast Mary is The Worst, Raidah’s more like Kinda Suck.
true enough
I’m not a fan of ‘who’s the worst’ olympics though. Like the question of who’s the worse father, Blaine or Toedad: both suck??? neither is better???
Becky is the sweetest friend here, but there’s a confrontation with Raidah ahead.
Beckers, stop trying to make “Jakes” happen. It’s not going to happen.
Are people trying to ship him with another character named Jake?
He’s also still in a relationship.
Wine:Grape Juice::Dina:Dorothy
Jacob has a sense of humor. At best, Dorothy knows that attempting to simulate one might be a good idea.
I briefly wondered what the portmanteau name was gonna be for a Jacob/Joyce ship, but then it became obvious that there really is no other answer than “Joycob”.
It’s chipper and sounds like a brand name for a supermarket repackaged corn of the cob that’s also unknowingly a mild dick-euphemism.
Nailed it
wait..ohhh. well. sneaky.
aaaaaa Jacob’s shirt-and-sweater-vest looks a hell of a lot like Dorothy’s outfit in, you know…
Sarah you magnificent bastard
I just wanted to say that I appreciate the Jacob Cleavage 😀 He needs a chest window though 😛
Oh dang someone said it!
Gotta get that big, beefy masculine Dorothy, who goes to church, even if it’s a weird church
jackpot!!
It’s really insensitive to sit around talking about how big a man’s Dorothy is, okay?
*ahem*
Called it.
Wait… so Sarah isn’t interested in Jake anymore? They’re trying to set Joyce up with him now?
She’s still interested, but knows that he’s not interested in the same thing she is, so she’s given up. But she doesn’t want Raidah to have him. So she’s aimed Joyce at him, since they do seem to want generally the same thing.
Rather it’s meant to be flirting or just friendly banter, I love Joyce’s and Jacob’s chemistry. Even though Joyce tries her very best to be friends with every damn body, it seems, at least to me, that she is super comfortable and relaxed around him.