It didn’t help me. I got stung for US$1435 for pai relief during a bout or renal colic in California in Ausgust, and I am now pretty sure that my travel insurance isn’t going to reimburse me.
Yeah our insurance industry is pretty shit (exhibit a, it’s an industry), and nobody who actually makes policy wants to fix it because we’ve convinced ourselves that everyone else is the weird ones.
Everyone else isn’t “weird ones”, just like apes in the zoo aren’t “weird ones”. They just aren’t Americans. Canadians are on a good road to be Americans but what’s up with their Queen and Cricket or Hockey? South Americans aren’t really Americans: they let the indigenous people run all over their country instead of putting them in zoos, I mean reservates.
Actually, a lot of latin american countries put their indigenous peoples in reservations. There are in Costa Rica, Panama, colombia and Argentina for sure, and I could check the other countries with a google search but it makes me too sad, so you do it.
speaking for Perú here: we never went into reservations as we were a fully functional civilization and the spanish were happy to let us govern ourselves with an upper layer of conquistadores as parasitic government. That lasted almost 300 years, so we are the mayority of the population still, and whites (and euro descent) are a minority with more political power and money as general rule. We have had only a handful of native blooded rulers (presidents) since XIX century. Two of them in the last 20 years. And then you have Bolivia, where native blood is a strong mayority of the population, and the ruling president is a native leader. not sure about other countries history.
No kidding. My insurance company sent me a letter last week telling me that they’re getting rid of my current plan because the state legislature changed how my type of plan is being taxed, and they claim that whatever other plan they’re changing me to is going to be cheaper than that other plan. But since the plan they want to switch me to is ~$460 a month, I do have to wonder.
That’s nearly the premium Texas’s high-risk pool wanted to charge me pre-ACA. (I was classified as ‘high-risk’ because I had received some therapy and medication for depression.) I’m mad because I’m in that gap that doesn’t make enough to qualify for subsidies, and I don’t qualify for Medicaid.
I need to keep poking at my rep and senators. Not that they’re going to do anything about it, since my rep is a crazy teabagger (and she’s not seeking re-election, so she’s doing whatever she wants), and the senior sen from my state is the jerk who made that valium quip.
Gotta keep poking them. My MP, a classic Tory scumbag, probably hates me almost as much as I hate him with the emails & letters I’ve been sending, but at least he knows that some of his constituents won’t stand for his shit.
That’s one of the things pisses me off the most about Brexit. I live in a safe Tory seat that has been Tory since 1950. But my vote actually had meaning in the European Parliament elections, due to proportional representation.
I didn’t remember myself, but someone commented yesterday that he was an osteopath.
Less creepy than him being a gynecologist, but still leaving him a Bone doctor.
Osteopath or orthopedist? Osteopathic doctors can be any kind – that just refers to them having gone to a school of osteopathic medicine and holding a DO degree instead of an MD.
YES, given what WE know, suing is a shitty thing to do.
But if all Ryan’s parents know is that someone put their boy in a hospital with a knife without provocation and then told a lot of lies about him to the police (and perhaps that’s what they “know” because that’s what Ryan told them), leaving them with lots of medical bills…
…. or perhaps they ARE just domineering shites using the law as a means of abuse.
Actually, despite the population increasing, the number of lawsuits has been going down. Partially due to misinformation like this, where people who have legitimate grievances are afraid to sue because they don’t want to be labeled “bad people” for trying to make other people follow the law.
Being willing to use the law when it’s reasonable is just fine, and shouldn’t be stigmatized.
It is a one-way thing, also: Corporations have no qualms about hiring all the lawyers they wish, and nobody says “that’s too many lawsuits from corporate America”. They sue, and threaten to sue, each other, not for sport, but certainly Company X’s lawyers and Company Y’s lawyers know what they’re there for and aren’t afraid to do their jobs.
Only when it’s the little folk do “tort reform” and “lawsuit abuse” get invoked by the news programs.
I’m genuinely thankful that my random skimming things across the internet, and a few books, has given me a usefully accurate idea of things on at least this one subject.
Isn’t there evidence of t being self defense though? I thought Dorothy mentioned something about camera footage. I mean,a kid who everyone believes is a rapist (whether his parents think it true or not) pulls a knife on a girl in front of the dorm where his initial victim lives….no way it can look good for him
Didn’t she stab him with his own knife? But sadly, no matter what, Amber’s family is going to have to hire a lawyer, whether or not the lawsuit is baseless.
Wait – presumably Amber is 18, right? That means that, absent a special relationship like a legally appointed guardian for an adult unable to care for herself), Amber’s parents are not liable for her behavior, particularly behavior occuring when she is away from home.
It doesn’t mean that Stacey wouldn’t try her best to protect her daughter. Possibly by hiring a lawyer if the need arose. With Dick’s money, because she herself is broke.
As a one-time AV mic-wrangler, I thank you for bringing the mic-dropping issue up. Good microphones are more expensive than you would think, and also more delicate than you would think.
As an audio kind of guy: if it’s part of a performance, you want to only drop mics that are already dead (in other words, props).
However, it’s not impossible that a well-funded act will include a for-reals mic drop. But you better believe it cost them a lot and they want to get the act right the first time.
To elaborate, because apparently some people around here are pretty smart: good “stage magic” will set the mic-dropper up with a live mic, and then a duplicate that’s dead that they can keep in their back pocket and easily swap out behind their backs while taking a bow or reacting to applause.
I would have expected that the real one would be a well-hidden collar or lapel mic, instead, but I’ll take your word on it since I really don’t know how effective those are for stage performances (as opposed to broadcasts on a closed set).
If somebody wants to dramatically drop a mic, give them something cheap like a Behringer XM8500. They’re cardioid and they look the part, but they’re only 20 bucks brand new.
Though to be honest, I’ve seen some $200 handheld mics go through hell and only get retired because the XLRs wear out and won’t hold a cable or transmitter anymore.
An expensive handheld mic intended to be a handheld mic will very likely tolerate a few drops. An expensive large diaphragm condenser, in contrast, is not something you hold in the hand and that makes sense jumping around on the stage with. Those aren’t necessarily built to tolerate lots of abuse. And their size and weight does make them well suited for hand operation anyway.
The place where my band used to practice also hires out PA gear. One time we turned up and the sound engineer was fuming because the lead singer of some high-school band had finished their set by kicking over his mic stand. Sound engineer laid into him so fiercely, the kid’s daddy offered to replace the mic whether it was broken or not. Rock and roll!
That’s always seemed pointless to me, just like damaging a guitar. You don’t see craftsmen or artists outside of music destroying their tools or treating them disrespectfully. Van Gogh didn’t finish ‘Sunflowers’ and then systematically snap all his brushes. Mel Brooks is grateful the ‘Frankenstein’ prop crew didn’t trash all the lab equipment.
Problem… We have no idea the extent of what happened yet. That Amber isn’t in jail is one thing, but we are still talking about vigilante violence that put a kid in the hospital.
In fact, given that Amber is free and still attending college may be part and parcel why a lawsuit is being threatened. The parents of the jerk are seeing no criminal actions being taken against Amber, and want some sort of punishment.
Also, the civil suit may be a part of a criminal defense strategy. We don’t know if he was charged with anything yet. If so, the civil suit may be a bargaining chip to be used in any plea agreements.
Further… I’m putting WAY to much thought into the legal background of a comic strip.
Does it really count as “vigilante violence” when it’s self-defense? In this particular incident, Amber didn’t hunt him down and stab him for his crimes, he followed Dorothy to the dorms and then threatened them both with a knife, with intention to get inside and harm Joyce.
I realize Ryan’s parents probably don’t see it that way, but it’s certainly the way the security footage sees it.
As far as we know, Amber hasn’t been outed as Amazi-girl, so there’s no “vigilante violence” that they can stick her with unless you’re referring to the specific instance of the stabbing, which was indeed self-defense.
Self-defense that put a legally adult (alleged) serial rapist and attempted murderer in the hospital. She could have legally shot him in the head (other than it probably not being legal to have a gun on campus) and walked away.
It is very likely some combination of parental denial and legal maneuvering.
Yeah you’d be surprised how blind parents can be to the kind of people their kids are. I had a room mate in college who was just awful. Always threw parties without asking the rest of us, got in trouble with the school and the police on multiple occasions, lied about deaths in the family to get out of homework assignments, eventually got kicked out of school (but calls herself an “alumni”)
yet when my parents had to call her parents about her lack of paying rent (I was the one who collected all the rent checks) they were convinced I or one of our other room mates must’ve been a “bad influence” because their precious daughter would NEVER behave such a way (I, for the record, was a mild-mannered nerd who was terrified of parties & hated getting in trouble…pretty sure I wasn’t the bad influence).
I see it a lot too as a parent now…there are always those parents who think their child is flawless, and it results in them growing up into an adult with no solid moral code & the parents still being clueless.
It’s the guy with the knife who attacked Dorothy and Amber. Directly beforehand someone in the comments was insisting very strongly that they didn’t think the object he was holding (which was obscured somewhat in that day’s strip) was in fact a knife, but a phone.
It’s since become something of a running joke in the comment section. And I think the alt-text once.
The guy she stabbed into resembling a slice of Swiss cheese. I’m no expert on law but not sure if they have a case since I’m assuming by Amber not being in jail and being allowed to return to school that it was ruled as self defense, though if the apple didn’t fall far from the tree the guy’s parents are probably as douchy as him…and the legal bills alone can eat up money real quick.
While the state has decided there is no criminal case, anyone is able to start a civil case if they think they have a claim for damages (this actually means compensation). Civil cases can’t use the lack of or existence of a criminal case to bolster or diminish claims.
I don’t know if it is different in American law, but in Scot’s Law, civil cases are based on a balance of probabilities which means it has to be more likely than not that the defendant’s conduct was unacceptable (like, the judge could be only convinced it is 51% the more likely case and rule in the pursuer’s favour). However, it would be up to Ryan’s parents to prove that Amber broke common law or case law in some manner since they are the pursuer.
I can’t say whether it would meet necessary criteria to be argued (as the only part of law I have a fair idea of is for negligence claims), but I do expect what they are likely trying to sue for is likely excessive force or if they are completely blind to reality, they may be trying to sue for assault.
However, I would say he is likely to lose the civil case under assumption of risk/volenti non fit injuria, because by bringing the knife himself and threatening people with said knife, it is logical to conclude that he consented to the risk that they might defend themselves which would also include the risk that they could ultimately use said knife against him. Even if he didn’t personally consider that, a reasonable person could have foreseen that.
There’s presumably security footage of Ryan pulling his phone on Amber and Dorothy. The only case they have against Amber is how far she went after she disarmed him. Considering the tape, Dorothy’s front row seat as an eyewitness, and all Ryan’s other victims who came forward after he was arrested, it’s doubtful he’ll get much sympathy from a judge or jury.
Unfortunately none of that prevents Ryan’s parents from filing a lawsuit, and regardless of the outcome Stacy and Amber are on the hook for their defense lawyer’s bill. The US has no “loser pays everyone’s legal fees” statue.
Of course you can counter-sue to try and get your money back, but that means another court ordeal and more lawyers.
If it happened automatically, we might see fewer frivolous lawsuits. However, we all know that won’t happen because lawyers get paid good money for all those services. There’s gold in them thar lawsuits!
OTOH, we might also see the stakes go up in non-frivolous lawsuits, since the defender would know if they win all the legal fees would be covered. Can you imagine trying to sue a company knowing you’d have to cover the expenses for their high-priced legal team if they win. Could easily be more than you’re suing for in the first place.
Yeah, speaking as a freelancer who often sees freelance artists’ work stolen by large corporations, this could be very very bad, making it even more risky & cost-prohibitive for independent artists to sue corporations for copyright infringement (and similar scenarios), because even if they’re in the right, experience has taught me the company with the most money often “wins.” 😐
Basically our legal system does a poor job of protecting the poor, victims, and independent creators. And I don’t know what the solution to that problem is.
51% is right. As for violating common law, there’s an excellent case of battery resorting in damages in the form of physical suffering, medical bills, and probably emotional suffering. (Some of that is explicit law.) The obvious legal defense to this is, well, defense, saying that Ryan attacked her. Dorothy’s testimony and the cameras would probably back that up. Still, it’s something you need a lawyer for, and lawyers are pricey. They’re also not free for civil defendants. (Not that the free ones are much good for criminal defendants. Topic for another rant.)
There definitely is an argument he could make, however, I wouldn’t say it is an ‘excellent case’ since Amber has a pretty solid defense which can be backed up by a witness, security footage and again, Ryan himself brought the knife that was used against him and wielded it as a threat against people, which implies through his actions that he accepted all possible risks in doing so by wielding it against them (it would be different if he hadn’t actually wielded it as that could likely be argued as contributory in that he was carrying the knife used against him but he didn’t accept the risk of using such a weapon or it being used against him). If it is accepted that Ryan accepted all the risks, that is a full defense, and while you could argue nervous shock (this is the term we use for mental distress in our law) for his parents, if Amber isn’t liable for the injuries, she also wouldn’t be liable for that as by law, she wouldn’t be responsible for them occurring, Ryan would.
Law can be finicky though in that civil is solely up to a judge (fun fact, in Scotland we have Sheriff’s Courts so we have sheriffs still) who may make a bizarre judgement. A bizarre judgement is actually why grinding wheels were actually illegal for like 19 years or something because they weren’t fully guarded and had to be for safety reasons but were unusable if completely guarded.
Well, okay, I’ll rephrase. He can very easily prove battery. That’s what I meant by an excellent case for battery. But then Amber’s side would get to prove she acted in defense of herself, Dorothy, and Joyce, and that would also be fairly easy to prove and would make her not liable.
…. you know, if they can afford a competent attorney.
I’ve known otherwise decent people who will side with their children over anything. If it’s a question of who to believe, their child, or some other entity, they know who they trust.
I suspect it’s human nature.
Further, they may be suing for medical expenses, and their own insurance company may be forcing them to.
I’m reminded of the shitty parents of rapists who petitioned Betsy DeVos to overturn all campus rape policies in order to protect their “sweet innocent baby boys”.
Yup, while also straight up admitting their precious children did commit their crimes and that they had “warned their children about knocking that stuff off before” but stating that that shouldn’t “ruin their futures”.
So it’s parents who straight up know that their kids are serial rapists but petitioned the highest level of government to try and make sure there were no consequences for their rapist offspring.
There are many on the right who can’t shut up about their (fantasy) idea that false accusations of sexual assault / rape are incredibly higher than in actuality.
It’s an article of faith among many MRA, right wing media, and GOP.
In actuality, false accusation of these crimes are very low, and in l722nd with the figures for all crimes.
Unless of course it’s liberal Hollywood types being accused. In which case they’re right on board and blaming everybody else in Hollywood for not doing something when they always knew.
Not that we shouldn’t believe those accusations, just that the incredibly tribal nature of it for those on the right jumped out at me.
Ryan is a preacher’s son. Not just in his father’s profession but particularly so, admitting to having a serial rapist as a son is a pretty ugly thing. It’s easier to go with Ryan’s story for now, and I’m sure he has had time for inventing one now. I mean, he is on the same campus. And neither law nor law enforcement care for vigilant action, and that’s what Amber’s actions really amounted to once she had disarmed and disabled Ryan. The rest was for fun rather than self-defense.
And Amber never was a victim of Ryan. So no, cost-shifting will quite likely not be granted and Amber’s family will have to shoulder the cost of her legal defense even if Amber should manage to get out of having to pay the medical bills.
Amber was a victim of Ryan. He pulled a knife and tried to kill her. She didn’t just jump out of nowhere and attack him because he was a known rapist. He’s on the hook there for at least assault with a deadly weapon, if not attempted murder.
One of these days, some young man is going to get the father of his prom date arrested…for assault with a deadly weapon.
Think about it, if you are PURPOSELY cleaning your gun collection IN ORDER TO intimidate your daughters date, how is that NOT assault with a deadly weapon?
Just gonna copy and paste from a dictionary on this one:
Assault (legal def): “a threat or attempt to inflict offensive physical contact or bodily harm on a person (as by lifting a fist in a threatening manner) that puts the person in immediate danger of or in apprehension (see apprehension 1) of such harm or contact — compare battery”
Well, it was self-defense enough that there’s not a criminal charge, but civil suits can be different. I mean, hopefully they won’t win, but with the cost of lawyers it’s a financial burden either way. Heck, if they can swing it, I’ve heard of people suing without really expecting to win, just to “punish” the other party.
It’s pretty common. Especially among rich folks and abusers. Like, there’s a lot of extended custody battles by abusive parents who just want to hurt the person for leaving them and have no real interest in ever actually seeing the child.
It’s a petty harassment technique as well as a means of trying to negate the actual purpose of civil lawsuits which can be a key mechanism of bringing justice to corporate malfeasance or violation of civil laws like the ADA.
Really depends on how Indiana handles the defense of self defense. Honestly I’m surprised most states have a duty to retreat so it’s possible that prosecutor chose not to pursue criminal charges but that still leaves civil liability
Most states *DO NOT* have a duty to retreat, and especially not Indiana, which has set precedent towards standing-one-ground-in-practice. Vermont is the only state to do so; and only around dozen others have a duty-to-retreat in public.
Volokh is a libertarian, but he’s a law professor who writes for the Washington Post, so I think his numbers are fairly trustworthy, and mirror what I learned in criminal law.
Also worth noting that some states have caselaw cutting against a duty to retreat. There is an Indiana case which literally said that retreating was Un-American.
Back when I was 16, some asshole was really impatient with me when I was trying to turn left out of a parking lot near a busy intersection during rush hour. After laying on her horn for a few minutes, she actively and intentionally rear-ended me… and then told her insurance company I’d backed into her.
Unfortunately in that region, the insurance policy was 50/50 for any accident in a parking lot, so I was on the hook for half the damages because she rear-ended me on purpose because she was road raging.
SO MUCH RAGE.
It’s been 14 years and I’m still pissed at the injustice of it.
I live in the UK and got hit by a car a few days before I turned 13. A letter came for me a few months later. I opened it and quickly handed it to my dad with an “umm..?!” It said I was being sued for damages to the car.
My parents phoned the lady who had hit me and she was utterly HORRIFIED – her insurance company had decided to do this on her behalf and hadn’t talked to her beforehand. Think she immediately called them up and told them to drop it.
Not sure if she pointed out I had been 12 at the time and therefore below the age of legal liability so it was a stupid move as well as a nasty one… Also that bit where she had told my mum at the time that she hadn’t been able to work out what I was doing and sped up when she saw me. I had been reading on the road island whilst waiting for a break in traffic, looked up, saw somebody crossing towards me and assumed I would also have time to cross a single lane of traffic… But a lot of witnesses thought I was reading and had just stepped out without looking up.
Sorry you had to go through that – still must’ve been quite a shock to get that letter. :/
But even if you were reading and stepping onto the street (not that I assume you were doing that), you were standing on a road island, you were 12 years old, so speeding past you sounds like a very unreasonable action. Children (I include young teenagers into that) and older people are supposed to not be trusted in traffic, as their sight and perception just aren’t like the one of an adult. Not to assume you didn’t have perfect sight or anything, but it sounds like the fault was definitely on the lady’s side (and if it was just bad reaction), so her insurance wanting to sue you was stretching it quite a bit.
It was a bit surreal! I should have looked sideways before starting to cross – apparently the person crossing towards me had been chancing it a bit and she’d had to slow down for him, but was starting to speed back up. So don’t think she was going 30 mph when she hit me (and it was still high enough impact that my bone didn’t start healing on its own so 5 months later they needed to give me a bone graft and metal plate and screws to get things moving) – but yeah, as a driver I am generally hyper-aware of people waiting to cross!
If you can’t afford to pay a lawyer to draft a response, then you lose. Civil court is bad times if you’re not at least upper middle class and your opponent is vindictive and is willing to spend a lot of money to harass or hurt you.
How come the court can’t stop obviously bullshitty civil cases without costs to the attacked side?
And isn’t there at least a fund for people being sued after self-defence if law practice is this crazy?
The bar for having something thrown out as frivolous is extremely high. If Ryan is suing over excessive force, that’s definitely a weak case, but it’s not a frivolous one. The court can’t just refuse to hear it.
There’s criminal law, and there’s civil law. Even if Amber is completely cleared under criminal law — which you kinda think would happen, but the justice system in America is not particularly good at producing justice — anyway, lawsuits happen under civil law, where the judgment tends to be in the favor of the side with the highest-paid lawyers.
The basis of the suit would be that leaving aside the rape allegations, and the fact that Ryan was there to, and I quote. “carve” his “Unfinished Business” onto “the Blue-Eyed Girl”‘s Face, Ryan was disarmed. Then Amber punched him. That’s still pretty unambiguously self-defense…
but then she stabbed/slashed him with his own knife. Multiple times. that could be considered ‘unnecessary’.
but the visual of Amber sitting on his chest, expanding his collection of facial scars would (hypothetically) be the sort of thing one would play on to ‘justify’ a civil suit for ‘excess force’. Amber may have been legally in the right to disarm him, but IF she stabbed him repeatedly, there is legal precedent that can be played upon. i.e. “He had a knife to her throat. She went for S.I.N.G., rupturing an undiagnosed aneurysm. His family sued for wrongful death.
There’s no “may” about the legal right to disarm him.
You have to go pretty far in defending yourself from a guy who attacked you with a knife to really get in trouble. As long as she stopped slashing/stabbing soon after he stopped doing anything that could be interpreted as hostile, she’s in the clear. Even if that involved repeated stabbings – you’re not required to stab an attacker once, then wait to see if they’re done. It’s not always instantly clear how badly you’ve hurt someone or even if it’s bad, if it will be enough to stop them quickly, so strike again.
Probably several times in the space of a couple seconds.
Now if he’s down on the ground, doing nothing more than twitching and you’re carving your name into his chest, then there’s a case. 🙂
I think the argument would run; “Yes, my baby boy over reacted and menaced these two sluts with a knife, but once the psychopathic slut disarmed him, he was no longer a threat and anything she did to him AFTER disarming him constitutes assault.”
Awwww Stace. Awwww Amber. I so want those two to be happy and well and ;~; It probably says something about the quality of parents in this strip (or the quality of the parents I know, take your pick) that I’m genuinely pleased Stacey is ignoring the “you love monsters” part of Amber’s accusation (which she could’ve taken personally) in favor of trying to convince Amber she is NOT a monster.
Also, I immediately got mad at the bit about Ryan’s parents suing when it was FUCKING SELF-DEFENSE AND DEFENSE OF OTHERS YOU CAN’T SUE OVER THAT…except in civil court you can sue over anything you can get a lawyer to agree to, it just doesn’t mean you’ll win. But, still means a lot of legal headache and sunk cash for Stacey and Amber.
Not if you’re not expecting to get paid or even win, but just want to punish the other person for daring to defend herself against your horrible rapist son.
You can also do it out of spite, or as a bullying tactic to get criminal charges dropped (I have no idea if that’d even be up to Amber in this case tho), or just spite.
Or they might do it because that’s what you’d expect someone to do if they were falsely accused of the things Ryan actually did. If even if they lose or the suit gets thrown out as soon as it gets in front of a judge, they still might somewhat to mitigate some of the social / career ramifications for their little shitface, because sometimes people will look for any tiny excuse to avoid accepting the fact that people they know or who are like themselves might be capable of awful things.
Yeah, pretty much this. Pastor’s Kid and all – having an evil rapist of a child kind of disqualifies someone from being a pastor. Kinda suggests that you’re a terrible parent and screwed him up big time.
Probably true in both regards, unless ol’ Scarface had some sort of mental disorder.
I wouldn’t necessarily say that they’re terrible parents just because their kid is a rapist. Sometimes, parents do everything they possibly can, and the kid winds up being a piece of shit anyway. I wouldn’t even say that their shitty retaliatory lawsuit is necessarily an example of bad parenting, just shitty people being shitty.
Possibly. But then again, when he confronts Dorothy, he’s not at all concerned about getting caught by authorities, or having his future dragged through the mud. It’s “my dad’s going to see that.” His father was also what defined him when he first appeared years ago at the party.
Whatever Ryan’s got going on, I’m sure father issues are part of it.
I don’t like the assumption that a mental disorder alone would lead to being a rapey piece of shit. Even the tiny subset of mental disorders that lend themselves to violence more than to vulnerability are up against the willpower and skills of the host. Plus the little shit doesn’t show any signs of not understanding exactly what he’s done, or not being fully in control of himself.
Rapists aren’t some kind of special monster. they’re ordinary everyday people. that’s what makes them so fucking disturbing.
I was referring actually to psychopathy, which is linked to several genetic traits and causes a person to have extremely reduced empathy to others and violent tenancies. Treating others as objects to be manipulated for a person’s enjoyment is one of those things. Something I’ve studied in great detail.
It’s not exactly ‘up to the willpower and skills of the host’ because it’s not exactly an influencing condition; it’s a defining condition. The psychopath may *learn* to act in a good, socially acceptable way, but does so only because they have learned that this is the best way to get what they want, not out of any sort of goodwill for others. And “best behavior” only goes so far – even if a psychopath decides for himself not to rape another despite being able to get away with it, that doesn’t mean that they don’t do many OTHER extremely manipulative behaviors throughout their lives that abuse people in terrible ways.
Psychopathy isn’t a real diagnosis anymore. It – and sociopathy – have been replaced by Anti Social Personality Disorder. And when psychopathy was a thing, it was defined by lack of clinical empathy – i.e. the ability to feel another person’s emotions in a sort of echo (like being sad when you see someone sad). It did NOT mean the lack of ability to like others and want them to be happy. Hell, even today, part of treating ASPD often includes giving them a (monitored) position of responsibility, like having an animal or teaching small children a skill. The point is to frame it in self interest, like ‘okay, you like Person X. If you do Y, you won’t be able to see Person X anymore. Better not do Y then.’
Here’s the thing. That door would have a security camera, even if it wasn’t actively monitored. He was actively and publicly being looked for, as an attempted rapist. He pulled out a knife, and threatened to women with it, on said camera. One would also argue that he intended to gain entry to the building, whether or not the girls were there at that door, at that time. Amber had plenty of reason to feel that her life, and the life of others (Dorothy +), were at risk due to the knife wielding attacker. Therefor, she was in her right to defend herself, and others, in what way as she felt was necessary, from this active threat. And, she stopped short of killing him, when she had the ability to do so.
Also, there were witnesses. Although we didn’t see it, others from the lobby would have come to investigate. This was a trafficked area, and others could have come along the path, or had reason to leave the building.
I would like to think that no prosecutor worth their salt would charge Amber. And, there is good reason to thing that scarface would be up on charges. But, you can sue for almost any reason.
There can also be an insurance reason. In some cases, you may be required to file a lawsuit if the injury or damage involves another party who could be held responsible.
There was a thing a couple of years ago about a woman who sued her nephew, who was 8 at the time of the incident, for accidentally breaking her wrist when he did a flying leap hug at her at a birthday party. On the surface, it seems pretty ridiculous, suing child for damages. But:
1. insurance was only going to pay out one whole dollar
2. If an injury claim is filed with a Connecticut insurer, the injured party has to take the responsible party to court. (The woman was from NY, but the accident took place in CT, and a claim was filed on the parents’ homeowner’s insurance)
Now, maybe she’s the kind of person who would have sued regardless, but that’s not the point. Even if she didn’t want to, having a claim filed to try to get his parents’ homeowner’s insurance to cover her broken wrist would still have ended with the matter in court because of state law. I think there are also some situations where a person’s own insurance will make you sue the other party before they’ll move forward on a claim, but I’m more fuzzy on that since insurance is not my gig.
I’m not saying that’s necessarily the reason why Ryan’s parents are suing, just that there are some reasons why people may sue in general that don’t have anything to do with what they personally want).
Not if the point is to intimidate the person and anyone like them from ever daring to notice the crimes you are committing and communicating the message that you can financially ruin someone with wasted time and money with what is for you the equivalent of pocket change.
It’s about discouraging anyone from seeking justice against you since it will be clear you will make it as personally and financially painful as possible. See also why a lot of rape victims and victims of police violence don’t even bother seeking justice anymore.
Well that certainly does suck for the O’Malley’s, but most lawyers turn their nose up at shaking down broke people so it’s probably someone looking for attention. Personally, I think they should counter sue.
They can probably fight fire with fire. I’m sure there’s a grandstanding lawyer who would just love to take the case since Ryan’s parents probably benefit nicely from the collection plate so deep pockets. And while this is a floating timeline it just happens that right now it’s open season on men who can’t kept their hands to themselves.
1) Richard went out and bought a set of clothes for Stacy, before driving down from Mishawaka — and he knew her sizes well enough that those clothes fit okay.
2) Richard has, in his closet, various sets of womens clothes — either as trophies, or he’s just prepared — and he knew this particular set would fit Stacy.
3) Stacy keeps at least one spare set of clothes at Richard’s place in Mishawaka.
4) Richard has keys to Stacy’s apartment in Indianapolis, and stopped there on the way to Bloomington.
4 seems most likely. But if it’s 1, my hat’s off to him. Women’s clothing sizes can seem like an almost impenetrable mystery to those of us who don’t have to navigate in that world on a regular basis.
Not exactly – men’s clothes are just as likely to be weird and slightly off in various directions, but men’s fashions are a lot more forgiving of a waistline being slightly off or of your pants leg being a little long or short.
And lets be explicit here. Men’s off-the-rack clothing increments by two inches generally. on both waist and leg ‘sizes’ so I can either get a pair of pants that juuust touches the tops of your shoes and will easily show two inches of sock when I sit down, or I can have my socks consistently covered, and ‘look like a slob’ because the bottom seam of my pants pools slightly on my shoe.
Sidenote: my girlfriend raided my closet for pants all the time because we had the same waist size, comperable leg-length, and she enjoyed having multiple pockets that could actually hold more than 2.50USD in quarters without showing a bulge.
Now, now. Ryan is… well, he’s a good student. a very good student. Good family. Promising future. There is no reason to… to shine a spotlight here. There’s lot at risk.
Brief life update: Been in-and-out dealing with what may be the start of a chronic pain condition which is… yay so that’s why I’ve been gone a lot. Also been having lapses with my anti-depressants with the insurance switch and it’s fucking with me in very bad ways that increase my tendency to hermit and crawl into myself. Upside is work is great and super accommodating over the fact that I have to hobble when I come into work.
Panel 4: I want to focus the most on this moment because it’s a beautiful moment. Amber hurt her in a really sore area, but this was the most important thing for her to hammer home. And it shows the heart that is there behind the actions. She’s not perfect, she misses a lot of red flags, but she cares a ton for her daughter and it shows in what matters to her and what she attempts to do even if she is floundering a lot.
This is something Amber also needs to hear. Because it’s something the world and our brains are really good at fucking with when you’re a multiple system or when you have PTSD or when you are a survivor of abuse.
And as we see in the next panel, this actually gets through to Amber in a way no one else has been able to. She accepts for a moment the premise that she’s not actually a monster and allows it to become a future rather than a present in her personal narrative.
And that matters, those little bits allow her back out of her self-loathing shell so she can see the world didn’t come cratering down and she’s not all the things she has internalized from the world and her father.
Stacey is trying to be a good mom. Right now she’s succeeding beautifully.
Stace is a genuinely good person, and even if she falters occasionally, she is a good mama. I project on identify a lot with Amber, and so her having a supportive mother means a lot to me.
And it would’ve been so easy to take the “you love monsters” comment personally, but she’s putting it aside to care for her daughter.
*hugs* pain sucks. antidepressants also suck. I started tapering my migraine med that’s also an antidepressant last week; today after getting home from an appointment I just crawled into bed and read until about an hour after my dinner reminder went off. I hope you feel less bad soon! and definitely do your own research on the pain stuff, my doctors were kind of not super effective (hell the first one basically gave me an extra year of unnecessary pain)
Glad you’re back, I always appreciate your insight on the comics and I’m sorry you’re suffering from chronic pain, if I had any good advice to offer from experience I’d give it
I’m sorry to hear about the possibly developing pain condition, and the insurance just…just sucks. On the bright side I’m happy that your new job is going well.
Also, really agree with your assessment of Stacey’s moming ability.
I hope chronic pain condition is a reasonably manageable one (also chronic pain and depression can gang up together to do a real number on you – please watch out for that and look after yourself) and antidepressant stuff settles down and they build back up to “doing their job” levels again soon.
Hooray for job being understanding (although in fairness – and it may be easier to see this if you ask yourself how you’d view it if it was someone else?- being nasty to somebody for being in pain would be s horrible thing for your employer/supervisor(s)/co-workers to do).
And that’s a major thing. Our capitalist system makes it really hard to break away from shitty situations and makes it really easy to fall back into new shitty situations, because it allows folks to have the power of life or death over you.
Like, it matters when figuring out how to leave a Blaine figure on how to make sure you still remain fed and yet remain hidden enough that he can’t find you and try to kill you. And it can limit one’s options to choosing between several terrible choices.
And our lack of any real safety net allows abusers to exploit this system to its max. Abusive families holding financial support as leverage for trying to force queer kids back into the closet or otherwise control their living situations. Abusive romantic partners limiting their partners ability to live independently of them so they feel powerless to object to their awful actions.
And as we see here, it allows a perfect machine of psuedo-legal intimidation for the rich to exploit against any who dare notice their crimes. We’ve seen time and time again how Trump has used threats of expensive lawsuits to try and silence anyone who’s noticed his many many crimes. How that is a common practice among the rich. How some like Weinstein have even hired private goons to straight up harass mafioso style those who dare reject their attempts at abuse or threaten to report them.
And it works because people don’t trust they’ll see justice and that if they do, it’ll be years in the future when they’ve already been rendered bankrupt and homeless. The lack of a safety net robs us of our full agency to escape these abusive dynamics and we see it outlined here. Amber and her mom sued for defending herself because of a family unable to own their shitty son’s actions.
And Stacey once again feeling trapped to a man who we at least know to be awful out of economic necessity and need to protect her daughter.
These are the chains that drag good people down and it’s why the same forces that are on the sides of the abusers tend to also be on the sides against having a system that allows people to escape and build their lives free from the toxic whims of the rich and powerful.
I know Richard is a totally gross and creepy person. I want him to be trying to be better for Stacey–don’t trust that he is, but still, I’m hopeful. So I’m hoping that last panel was a throwaway joke…
Also, because I got sidetracked last comment, I hope you feel (at least relatively) better soon! Take care of yourself, lady ♥
It’s really quite funny. The creepy sex-obsessed dude goes all “Son, don’t panic but… I might be in love” and the good and loving mom is all “Daughter we need that doctor’s money because we are Broke!”
Yeah, between a Blaine and a Richard, the latter option is far less dangerous. I’d take cheating-asshole over willfully-endangers-and-abuses-family any day.
And yes, I’m aware how awful that pronouncement is. -_- Stacy needs a break. And maybe internet dating. Or a dog.
Is there an app that’s like Tinder, but for dog walkers/sitters? Like, the dog owner sets up a profile, and then people with the app can decide if they want to play with/walk/watch it? Obviously with a chat window, so the owner and user can arrange details.
Yeah. And that’s also a thing after getting out of abusive relationships. It lowers your standards of what is an unacceptable thing in a relationship. Like, oh they’re a cheater? Well at least they aren’t putting me in fear of when they are going to next hit me and in the meantime I’m getting fulfilling sex.
Cheating has been made out to be a moral wrong deserving of physical violence when it really just…..isn’t. Someone you thought should only be banging you ends up banging someone else. Yes, your hurt, and feel betrayed, and you are well within your rights to leave that person.
But it’s not EVIL. Nowhere near the same league as sexual or physical violence. And while cheating CAN be a part of emotional abuse, it’s more often a symptom of emotional weakness on the part of the cheater. It’s a human condition thing. Even good people slip up, and our biological drives aren’t well-suited to monogamy in the first place, especially when there aren’t even children in the picture.
A lot of people take ‘cheating womanizer’ and equate it with ‘wife-beating rapist’ for no good reason, when the scales of harm are completely different.
That’s all true, but don’t underestimate the emotional damage that kind of betrayal can cause. Unless it’s a one-time slip-up, it’s usually combined with an awful lot of lying and denial and sneaking around.
Slipping up is one thing, established patterns are another.
Generally it also involves lying and manipulation of the person you’re cheating with.
And of course, in Richard’s case, there was a child and it’s pretty obvious the harm that’s been done to him.
The entire US justice system is at best a dark joke and at worst a horrid abomination to most developed countries. And the fact that someone can be cleared of a crime but still taken to civil court is really just straight up fucked.
OTOH, it’s often provided some measure of balance when the criminal part goes awry. There have been a lot of successful “use of force” and “wrongful death” suits against police departments who’ve successfully protected their officers from criminal charges.
Aw crud. I’ve never seen how lawsuits actually play out, but if Amber is forced to go in and give her side to people wanting her to contradict herself, the battle between her self-loathing and her intent to help Dorothy and Joyce is just going to get worse.
I’m surprised at Amber’s reaction here. Like, Richard wasn’t exactly dancing around the topic of the relationship, but I suppose it’s one thing to hear it from a guy she’s likely tuning out and another to hear it from her mom.
Nah I think it’s the committed nature, Richard says banging on the regular but she’s not only leaving changes of clothes at his place but he’s bringing them in an uncharacteristically thoughtful act
OT: Are Gender-reveal-parties for unborn babys really a thing?
There’s an article about it on the b*media site, saying people don’t get the result of a gender check from the doctor, but it’s given to a baker, piniata-maker, party-organizer, whatever and by the color of the cake or other symbolic stuff, the gender of the yet unborn is revealed to all in a party-like environment (and the event shown on YouTube).
I never heard about something like that before (but then I don’t spend much time watching YouTube), so, do people really do that?
What you’re describing sounds incredibly creepy. I’ve heard of parties where the parents reveal the kid’s sex to their friends and family, since it’s pretty common around here. But the version you’re talking about is on another planet.
I am sad to inform you that yes, its a thing. The worst one i’ve seen was the ones doing a photoshoot where they had a box with some powder that they SHOT WITH A GUN, because it was the american way to show what “gender” (really just what genitals the doctor thought they saw) their baby got
I’m sorry, WHAT? I swear, if I get the chance, I’m moving to another country and working toward citizenship. It’s not like I’ll be any more confused by their culture than I am by this one.
Okay. The way you framed that, plus the headline, combined with Nymphie’s post above, made me think that the PARENTS shot a woman who was down-range during their Reveal party because, as a citizen of the United States…, sometimes US citizens are stupid with firearms.
for those who don’t click on the link in Bicycle Bill’s post. two gunmen broke in and opened fire during a reveal party.
It is a thing that is done. In either a party-like environment, as you note, or a full-on party. Sometimes the parents know beforehand, and the reveal is for everyone else; sometimes it is as you have heard described.
I’ve heard of them and they generally make me cringe.
But I guess it’s a normaler thing now, like expectant couples choosing whether or not the baby’s gender is to be revealed to them during pre-natal care.
(Disclaimer about my age & never having kids, and wondering if I’m old enough to tie an onion on my belt.)
Thanks all.
What the article described sounded distinctly creepy, but somehow so absurd I wasn’t sure if it might be satire. Nowadays, life tends to exceed most satire notions. Hopefully it will take another few years to catch on in Germany…
Word of Willis is that he put Amazi-Girl in the comic so that he could have an outlet for his desire to occasionally draw action sequences. So yeah, Amber’s not going anywhere.
Blaine is legally required to pay her tuition, and probably a certain amount of maintenance until she’s out of school. But he’s almost certainly not required to pay legal bills. So, whatever else happens, it won’t affect her ability to pay for school – emotional effects having an affect on her ability to attend school is a different thing, but that’s likely something that will be shown on panel.
Yes, can confirm. I have had several family members who have done such. All with cakes. I have also seen friend-of-a-friend pictures of their own reveals of non-cake methods.
I don’t see how that would help in a civil case that is likely for excessive force. Or how coming out publicly would discredit it since that has nothing to do with the facts of the case. Unless I am seriously missing something when it comes to American law.
Seems to me that might actually make things worse for Amber. If not-Ryan’s lawyers can show that she knew about Joyce before the attack, they could spin it as motivating her to use greater force than necessary (as revenge for her friend).
He did tell her and Dorothy that he knew that the blond girl lived in the dorm and he was gonna carve up her face. Pretty sure that would seal the deal on that stabbing him to make him unable to hurt anyone wouldn’t be excessive, if Joyce is pulled into all of this
My reactions to the last panel in order:
1. Oh, Richard’s helping financially.
2. Oh fuck, Richard’s helping financially.
3. I swear if Richard tries to get away with some shut because he’s helping financially, he better get his face carved off with a knife and shoved down his throat!
Naturally, despite the fact that Ryan came at Amber with a knife with the intent to maim her, Dorothy and Joyce, his family are sure she used ‘excessive force’ on their ‘sweet, innocent little boy’.
You know what, I’m actually going to give Richard a lot of credit here. Yesterday, I thought he had driven down with Stacey. But apparently she came yesterday and then couldn’t figure out what to do. And it’s a school day, which means it’s a work day.
Which means that, on a few hours’ notice, Richard rescheduled his appointments, got clothes, drove to another city and went in to speak with Amber, because he knew that Stacey didn’t know what to do and wanted to help. That’s actually… real. That is substantially inconveniencing himself for a problem that a lot of people (not good people, but we’re at a low bar here) would have dismissed as Stacey being silly or just needing to toughen up.
And when he did, what he confronted Amber with was how the situation was affecting Stacey.
IIUC Joe’s refusal to be a real person or to treat women as real people comes from seeing how badly his father has hurt them. It’s possible that Dr Dick is a lovely partner – other than a serial “inability” to stay monogamous or to be honest about that.
If Joe presents himself as a 2D character who views women in terms of physical and sexual attributes only but is open and upfront about it then (a) nobody will take him seriously so he can’t hurt anybody; (b) he doesn’t need to worry about the fact that he’s just like Dad and Dad can’t exercise any self restraint around teh womenz so clearly he couldn’t even if he tried; (c) he gets to be da MAN and do manly things without worrying about hurting other people coz Joe is actually a lot less of a jerk than he thinks he is, deep down.
(Does that make sense? The fact that Richard is apparently going out of his way to do nice supportive things for Stacy doesn’t necessarily negate him being the sort of role model who resulted in Joe “not like that”ing to an online “do” list.)
I mean, I hope I’m wrong because Stacy has been through enough damaging relationship awfulness already – but I’m not convinced. The biggest counter-argument that I can see to this is the language Richard uses when talking to Joe – acting like “commitment”, “relationship” etc aren’t even in his vocabulary. But that could be a “men don’t talk about feels” [in his mind] thing, how he’s used to relating to Joe specifically (“I’m young, cool and hip and put it about all over town! Emulate me!”) – OR a sign that him and Stacy are somewhere significantly outside his standard operating procedures. But given he committed to Joe’s mum enough to marry her that seems less likely than him having a strong history of acting the part of the loving, committed partner until either the infidelity/infidelities come out or he emotionally checks out and moves on to the next pretty lady.
It’s Sunday, as Tarmaniel said – thus all the church stuff a little bit back.
Stacy brought Amber back down yesterday and stayed on. I didn’t realize it at the time, but we saw her at the bar after Leslie’s date, which was an obvious clue she was staying in town, worried about Amber.
I’d guess she called Richard for emotional support when Amber stopped responding to her texts. Possibly drunk at the time. Then he came down last night or this morning. Still good, but not quite so extreme.
Well, think about it. The closest thing Amber had to a positive role model growing up was almost as badly adjusted as she is, and while well-meaning, clearly does not have a firm grasp on how to provide emotional support.
I’m…. not entirely sure how the legalities of this work.
Amber is legally an adult, and as I understand the law (which is a bit, but I’m far from an expert) I don’t see how Stacy can be sued for Amber’s actions.
Oh, yes, there are ways that a parent can incur liability for certain actions. Loan your car to your kid and if they get into an accident, it’s your car so you can be sued. Give booze to your kids and they give it to someone underage at a party who then gets injured from being drunk, and you can be sued because it’s your booze. But that’s not the parental connection at work — that potential liability’s true of anyone, parent or not.
Yes, AMBER could be sued. There probably wouldn’t be a winning case… except for disparities in qualities of lawyers and some very legally-unwise public statements of her own evil nature that she’s been making over the past 24 hours. Thing is, Amber doesn’t have much that’s worth suing for. A laptop and a 3DS, some transformers, some clothes, and some school supplies. All of which probably have terrible resale value after so much use. The big question mark is whether the funds for college are in Amber’s name, and given that Blaine said he was the one paying for it, probably not.
So, yes, Amber could be sued. But that would likely involve WALKING UP TO HER AND PUTTING THE SUMMONS IN HER HAND. There are other options, like leaving it with a roommate, but I don’t see Dina forgetting to mention something like that. And yes, leaving it with a relative is plausible… but given how much easier it is to find Amber than to find Stacy, given what Ryan and his family and their lawyer(s) would be known about the two, it seems especially strange that it’s Stacy who knows about the lawsuit first. Maybe Amber listed her permanent address with her mom on the police reports rather than campus residence… but that’s exactly the sort of information that police like to black out when the rest of the report is made public. Given how easy it would be to deliver a complaint and summons to Amber through the university, compared to backtracking through her family, this would be a very silly way to go about suing Amber.
But suing Stacy? There’s no winning case there. None at all. That’s the sort of thing that can be dismissed easi-…
……
…. wait. If someone makes the case that Stacy is liable for not intervening in Blaine’s abusive rearing of Amber and subsequently turning her into a ticking time bomb with the result of…
….
….
…. eh, still not proximate cause and precedent would be against them. Nope, I don’t see how Stacy is getting sued here.
(And yes, the lawsuit is a shitty thing to do, but that’s a different discussion and Cerb’s already covered everything I have to say about that plus stuff I didn’t know, so I won’t touch that. Though I’ll note that if Ryan’s maintaining his innocence to his family, and they believe him because OF COURSE he’s had a lifetime of practice lying to them, and THEY’RE the ones suing for medical costs, battery, and other stuff, then it’s a bit less of a deliberate-abuse thing. It becomes a bit sympathetic, in a “pity the poor deceived parents, they’re hurt and they know not the injustice they’re doing” sort of way.)
By “suing us” I’m positive Amber is the one being sued, but Stacy, being her mother, counts them as a family unit, especially as Amber has no income of her own.
And it’s possible they haven’t been served, but Stacy thinks it’s a likely outcome for the future, and is figuring it into her plans.
Any lawsuit plot in this strip will require considerable artistic license. Courts move glacially slow by real world standards, in this strip nothing would ever happen.
Ryan was stabbed four days ago, and two of those days are the weekend. There’s no way a lawsuit would have already been filed in real life.
It depends on the scale of the suit and how complex the arguments presented by both sides’ lawyers. A time-scale of months, in-universe, is plausible if on the short side.
Well, realistically Amber would be completely SOL. Ryan knows Amber is AG and as a result knows Amber has committed numerous serious crimes. All Ryan has to do is threaten her with an under-oath deposition and she’s basically screwed. She could always take the 5th and refuse to answer but in a civil case refusing to answer questions very much can be used against you. From there even a minimally competent investigator would be able to figure out it was her that hospitalized Blaine, and now she’s facing serious prison time.
Ryan may know that Amber is AG, but I don’t think he has any evidence. Worst case is that by revealing her secret, he may prevent her from doing her Amazi-thing again, but since she’s already shown she can hide her costume from the police effectively, its likely that the cops would at most only give Ryan’s claims a cursory investigation and dismiss them as a criminal trying to deflect attention from his own crimes.
(Yes, that scenario would require Amber to lie about her secret identity, but that’s probably wouldn’t be that difficult.)
Not really. Blaine wanted that fight (had in front of many people, and probably cameras, told her to try to punch him), and had threatened Danny (to Amber).
Ryan has no power to expose her, no evidence, and he’s in a criminal trial for attacking 2 unarmed girls with a knife. He is powerless now.
By facing serious prison time do you mean it is likely to happen or it will come close enough to happening to be uncomfortable. Ryan fits Blane’s description of her better than Amber. If he tells the police that he lied about what happened and Amber beat him up he risks Amber saying he left out the part about kidnapping her boyfriend and he made a false police report, and Danny will back her up, and she has neuteral character witnesses who can say her story seems more likely given what they saw. Also people might be weary about coming out of the woodwork as criminals which she might have went over the top with, considering that she is not a witness to the crime.
Blaine didn’t kidnap anyone. He didn’t even threaten Danny, let alone use any kind of actual force. Lying to someone isn’t kidnapping. Amber had absolutely no justification for attacking him there, previous abuse doesn’t justify it legally. It would not take long for a lawyer to figure out Amber was the one who beat up Blaine. Hell, Dorothy figured it out in a couple of days and she did it with less information than an investigator would have.
I’m not sure if kidnapping was the absolutely correct term but his aggressively grabbing Danny and covering his mouth when Amazigirl told Danny that he was being used as leverage was definitely counts as actual force. And he might not have used incriminating words on the phone but he definitely was giving Amber the message I have your boyfriend so you better do what I say.
The Police’ve already done a customary search of her dorm room and didn’t find anything that could connect Amber to Amazi-Girl, so all Ryan has for proof tha Amber=AG is that they’re both short, stout brunettes that kicked his butt (so for that matter is Joyce – Hmmm…).
Amber is an adult, but she obviously can’t afford a lawyer. Therefore her mother is paying for her legal defense. Since Amber is named in the suit and her mother is paying the lawyer, “they” are effectively getting sued.
Plus, it’s an American thing. Since most people who aren’t independently wealthy can’t afford a lawyer independently, a person in the immediate family being sued is frequently seen as “we’re being sued” especially by the parents, especially if the one being sued is in their late teens, early twenties.
Okay then, but how is it Stacy knows this and Amber doesn’t? If it’s just Amber being sued, shouldn’t she have gotten the paperwork shoved into her hands rather than Stacy?
Amber was at home with her mother the past four days. There’s no reason to assume that 1) she doesn’t know they’re being sued and 2) that they wouldn’t have “shoved” the lawsuit directly into Amber’s hands because she was at home
Worse, parents who refuse to believe that their angelic baby boy could do the horrible things that those slutty college girls accuse him of doing. This is going to end up with an ‘affluenza’ issue, I’m sure of it.
Thing is, they *could* be literally unable to believe that he did what he did.
People wear a lot of different masks. Perhaps he is the “good son” for them.
There are a lot of people here forming opinions of characters we’ve never seen or heard from, based solely on a single sentence from a third party. The fan base around here could form an Olympic-level ‘Conclusion Jumping’ squad.
This is a webcomic, and the Amber / Joe / Richard / Stacy scene has taken 8 strips over some two weeks, and if it were filmed, might last fifteen minutes.
Chop up and spread a story across this much time and it reminds me of one of those lit classes where a few pages of a novel are parsed and discussed to a fare-thee-well.
(Of course, I always liked that kind of lit class, unless it was about Henry James.)
I’m inclined to agree. For all we know, “Ryan” could have very well twisted the narrative so he was the victim. Perhaps the parents only know him as the “good boy” and have no reason to doubt his version.
We also have no idea what the official stance on this incident is, or what information has been relayed to the parents.
I mean, I fully expect them to be utter douche bags, but at this point there is no way to be sure.
I’m guessing he did. And to be fair most functional parents don’t want to believe their child is that bad.
First pretend that he never drugged Joyce. Specifically that everything happened except the drug being in the pop. Also pretend that she refused to go to the bathroom alone. This explains the scar as some paranoid chick who heard stories felt a little woozy and attacked him out of nowhere.
This makes Amazigirl posting about him sound unjustified and his attempts to protect his name sound fair.
Second pretend it was Ambers knife and he just wanted to explain what happened. Or if that’s not possible that he wasn’t really going to attack them he was just making some idiotic point which in retrospect was a dumb idea he just couldn’t live with the lies they were telling.
Yes, the parents of the now-known rapist, who now know he is a rapist, and who it has been established was caught on camera being the aggressor in the incident that landed him in the hospital, suing the college student that their son was presumably trying to murder, are clearly just misunderstood.
If my son were in the hospital because he tried to kill someone to cool the trail on his rape spree, I wouldn’t start spending money hiring lawyers for a lawsuit against the would-be victim for a lawsuit we can’t win unless I felt his actions were morally justified, in which case I would be a monster.
At this point the only public thing regarding his rape spree is Amber’s post. They assault may well have been a revenge for that. The only chance for the rapes to actually become public knowledge is for the victims, e. g. Joye, to step forward.
The cast knows about the rapes from Dorothy, unless I’m forgetting something.
Chances are the more we learn about them the more we will hate them. Other than that remark about his father seeing what’s put online we don’t know they are not good people in denile. Honestly I’m expecting them to be doing this more to protect there reputation then Ryan.
If you aren’t reading a post by Ana Chronastic or Cerberus just assume it’s someone whose using hyperbole. I could be totally wrong, but it’s easier to just assume most people aren’t that extreme in their real thoughts. If you read the comments during pretty much any story line you will find a lot of people going over the top.
What’s saddest is she’s had to spend most of her life thinking about how to be practical, especially in her love life.
Figuring out how much abuse to take so as to try and keep Amber as safe as possible, figuring out how to safely leave and hide so Blaine didn’t come after them, likely avoiding any and all dating until Amber was 18 so as not to accidentally let another Blaine back into their lives, and even know letting the reality of her daughter’s situation color how she approaches her current relationship.
It makes me sad that she hasn’t been able to just jump into a relationship without these other considerations in a very very long time.
Speaking of Stacy’s relationship with Richard, I’m really curious what your thoughts are on the last few comics portrayal of Richard as… considerably less terrible than people were previously expecting, or if he’s showing some red flags that I’m maybe not noticing.
In my opinion, he’s shown some red flag behavior still and some standard patriarchal crap, which is about to be expected.
From what we’ve seen he’s a creeper, a sexual predator, and a cheater, but not a physical abuser or someone who doesn’t still want to have fulfilling long-term relationships, even if he can’t handle them in a remotely healthy manner.
You can’t help wonder how many women, IRL, have no choice but to effectively mortgage themselves to someone in order to protect their children from destitution.
Given that this lawsuit is days-old at most, and she’s been seeing Richard for weeks or months, I doubt it’s among the reasons she went into the relationship.
He also hasn’t given us any reason to think he’s emotionally mature enough to handle an actual relationship, but let’s not count our apocalypse chickens before they hatch.
Well, he’s not the best, but I’m pretty sure he’s at least less of a monster than Amber’s dad.
Also, I think this is the first time Stacy has ever said “fuck” in any universe. The F-Bomb list confirms that it’s the first time in DoA, but I’m pretty sure she never dropped one in Shortpacked! either. Didn’t ever expect her to.
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“I don’t think ‘Love Doctor’ is a real doctor”
totes sign up for healthcare if you in the US tho
It didn’t help me. I got stung for US$1435 for pai relief during a bout or renal colic in California in Ausgust, and I am now pretty sure that my travel insurance isn’t going to reimburse me.
Yeah our insurance industry is pretty shit (exhibit a, it’s an industry), and nobody who actually makes policy wants to fix it because we’ve convinced ourselves that everyone else is the weird ones.
That’s pretty much our attitude about every other policy issue as well.
Everyone else isn’t “weird ones”, just like apes in the zoo aren’t “weird ones”. They just aren’t Americans. Canadians are on a good road to be Americans but what’s up with their Queen and Cricket or Hockey? South Americans aren’t really Americans: they let the indigenous people run all over their country instead of putting them in zoos, I mean reservates.
Except Argentina, mostly. Which is why we’re mostly white and like to consider ourselves Europeans.
It’s been coming back to bite us in the ass lately.
Actually, a lot of latin american countries put their indigenous peoples in reservations. There are in Costa Rica, Panama, colombia and Argentina for sure, and I could check the other countries with a google search but it makes me too sad, so you do it.
What are those, facts? Real Americans don’t use facts to determine their worldview. Facts are white genocide.
Have you tried using alternative facts? They might be more helpful in your argument.
speaking for Perú here: we never went into reservations as we were a fully functional civilization and the spanish were happy to let us govern ourselves with an upper layer of conquistadores as parasitic government. That lasted almost 300 years, so we are the mayority of the population still, and whites (and euro descent) are a minority with more political power and money as general rule. We have had only a handful of native blooded rulers (presidents) since XIX century. Two of them in the last 20 years. And then you have Bolivia, where native blood is a strong mayority of the population, and the ruling president is a native leader. not sure about other countries history.
No kidding. My insurance company sent me a letter last week telling me that they’re getting rid of my current plan because the state legislature changed how my type of plan is being taxed, and they claim that whatever other plan they’re changing me to is going to be cheaper than that other plan. But since the plan they want to switch me to is ~$460 a month, I do have to wonder.
That’s nearly the premium Texas’s high-risk pool wanted to charge me pre-ACA. (I was classified as ‘high-risk’ because I had received some therapy and medication for depression.) I’m mad because I’m in that gap that doesn’t make enough to qualify for subsidies, and I don’t qualify for Medicaid.
I need to keep poking at my rep and senators. Not that they’re going to do anything about it, since my rep is a crazy teabagger (and she’s not seeking re-election, so she’s doing whatever she wants), and the senior sen from my state is the jerk who made that valium quip.
Gotta keep poking them. My MP, a classic Tory scumbag, probably hates me almost as much as I hate him with the emails & letters I’ve been sending, but at least he knows that some of his constituents won’t stand for his shit.
That’s one of the things pisses me off the most about Brexit. I live in a safe Tory seat that has been Tory since 1950. But my vote actually had meaning in the European Parliament elections, due to proportional representation.
Joe’s Dad: “They call me Dr. McLovin'”
I don’t actually remember, so I’m going with gynecologist.
The last gynecologist I saw in a comic was Ash’s dad in Misfile, and he’s… also a creep.
Yay, but he’s also a bit of a badass, so I’m ok with this jokes.
I didn’t remember myself, but someone commented yesterday that he was an osteopath.
Less creepy than him being a gynecologist, but still leaving him a Bone doctor.
Osteopath or orthopedist? Osteopathic doctors can be any kind – that just refers to them having gone to a school of osteopathic medicine and holding a DO degree instead of an MD.
Osteologist – a doctor of bones. Not an Osteopath, that’s a different thing. Richard has an MD and specializes in bones.
We already established he’s a bone doctor, an osteologist.
I think Stacy and Richard can make it work. I believe in those crazy kids.
Also fuck “Ryan’s” parents.
Yeah, my first reaction was “What? They’re suing? How could any decent person do that?”
And my section reaction was “oh right, that makes total sense for them.”
The operative phrase there is “decent person” :c
I’m not sure about this.
YES, given what WE know, suing is a shitty thing to do.
But if all Ryan’s parents know is that someone put their boy in a hospital with a knife without provocation and then told a lot of lies about him to the police (and perhaps that’s what they “know” because that’s what Ryan told them), leaving them with lots of medical bills…
…. or perhaps they ARE just domineering shites using the law as a means of abuse.
This is a pretty litigious country regardless of your persuasions or perspective, so if money is at stake, it could actually be both.
Actually, despite the population increasing, the number of lawsuits has been going down. Partially due to misinformation like this, where people who have legitimate grievances are afraid to sue because they don’t want to be labeled “bad people” for trying to make other people follow the law.
Being willing to use the law when it’s reasonable is just fine, and shouldn’t be stigmatized.
Yep.
It is a one-way thing, also: Corporations have no qualms about hiring all the lawyers they wish, and nobody says “that’s too many lawsuits from corporate America”. They sue, and threaten to sue, each other, not for sport, but certainly Company X’s lawyers and Company Y’s lawyers know what they’re there for and aren’t afraid to do their jobs.
Only when it’s the little folk do “tort reform” and “lawsuit abuse” get invoked by the news programs.
(And don’t get me started on arbitration.)
I’m an attorney and I approve these comments.
I’m genuinely thankful that my random skimming things across the internet, and a few books, has given me a usefully accurate idea of things on at least this one subject.
Isn’t there evidence of t being self defense though? I thought Dorothy mentioned something about camera footage. I mean,a kid who everyone believes is a rapist (whether his parents think it true or not) pulls a knife on a girl in front of the dorm where his initial victim lives….no way it can look good for him
That camera is a white-knighting male femicuck and you know it
Obviously the camera is a man, women aren’t smart enough for CCTV surveillance
Didn’t she stab him with his own knife? But sadly, no matter what, Amber’s family is going to have to hire a lawyer, whether or not the lawsuit is baseless.
Sadly lawsuits can destroy a person financially even if they’re in the right/win the suit because of legal fees.
Wait – presumably Amber is 18, right? That means that, absent a special relationship like a legally appointed guardian for an adult unable to care for herself), Amber’s parents are not liable for her behavior, particularly behavior occuring when she is away from home.
It doesn’t mean that Stacey wouldn’t try her best to protect her daughter. Possibly by hiring a lawyer if the need arose. With Dick’s money, because she herself is broke.
Haha!
Unintentional innuendo.
She’s not fucking broke!
She’s fucking Rich. BECAUSE she’s broke.
I guess Ryan comes by his complete assholishness honestly.
More like genetically.
Assholishness isn’t genetic, but it is something you can pick up from the people around you.
“By osmosis”, then.
It’s gone Viral?
Well, what did you figure how Butt’s disease spreads?
Well good to know Ryan’s parents are terrible people tooz
I mean, we already knew Ryan was a preacher’s son, so yeah
*drops mic*
*picks mic back up, checks to make sure it’s not broken* these things are expensive why would anyone do that
As a one-time AV mic-wrangler, I thank you for bringing the mic-dropping issue up. Good microphones are more expensive than you would think, and also more delicate than you would think.
So, do you think Chris Rock replaces all those mics he throws to the ground at the end of his specials?
As an audio kind of guy: if it’s part of a performance, you want to only drop mics that are already dead (in other words, props).
However, it’s not impossible that a well-funded act will include a for-reals mic drop. But you better believe it cost them a lot and they want to get the act right the first time.
To elaborate, because apparently some people around here are pretty smart: good “stage magic” will set the mic-dropper up with a live mic, and then a duplicate that’s dead that they can keep in their back pocket and easily swap out behind their backs while taking a bow or reacting to applause.
I would have expected that the real one would be a well-hidden collar or lapel mic, instead, but I’ll take your word on it since I really don’t know how effective those are for stage performances (as opposed to broadcasts on a closed set).
If somebody wants to dramatically drop a mic, give them something cheap like a Behringer XM8500. They’re cardioid and they look the part, but they’re only 20 bucks brand new.
Though to be honest, I’ve seen some $200 handheld mics go through hell and only get retired because the XLRs wear out and won’t hold a cable or transmitter anymore.
An expensive handheld mic intended to be a handheld mic will very likely tolerate a few drops. An expensive large diaphragm condenser, in contrast, is not something you hold in the hand and that makes sense jumping around on the stage with. Those aren’t necessarily built to tolerate lots of abuse. And their size and weight does make them well suited for hand operation anyway.
I think it was a Steven Universe quote
Either that or I’ve just watched way too many Steven Universe
It’s close enough to one. Greg says something like that in “We Need to Talk”.
“Way too (much) Steven Universe” are words in English, but they don’t make a phrase I recognize.
The place where my band used to practice also hires out PA gear. One time we turned up and the sound engineer was fuming because the lead singer of some high-school band had finished their set by kicking over his mic stand. Sound engineer laid into him so fiercely, the kid’s daddy offered to replace the mic whether it was broken or not. Rock and roll!
I just found out about the Catchbox throwable microphone today.
God, I could have used this three years ago.
That’s always seemed pointless to me, just like damaging a guitar. You don’t see craftsmen or artists outside of music destroying their tools or treating them disrespectfully. Van Gogh didn’t finish ‘Sunflowers’ and then systematically snap all his brushes. Mel Brooks is grateful the ‘Frankenstein’ prop crew didn’t trash all the lab equipment.
Problem… We have no idea the extent of what happened yet. That Amber isn’t in jail is one thing, but we are still talking about vigilante violence that put a kid in the hospital.
In fact, given that Amber is free and still attending college may be part and parcel why a lawsuit is being threatened. The parents of the jerk are seeing no criminal actions being taken against Amber, and want some sort of punishment.
Also, the civil suit may be a part of a criminal defense strategy. We don’t know if he was charged with anything yet. If so, the civil suit may be a bargaining chip to be used in any plea agreements.
Further… I’m putting WAY to much thought into the legal background of a comic strip.
Does it really count as “vigilante violence” when it’s self-defense? In this particular incident, Amber didn’t hunt him down and stab him for his crimes, he followed Dorothy to the dorms and then threatened them both with a knife, with intention to get inside and harm Joyce.
I realize Ryan’s parents probably don’t see it that way, but it’s certainly the way the security footage sees it.
As far as we know, Amber hasn’t been outed as Amazi-girl, so there’s no “vigilante violence” that they can stick her with unless you’re referring to the specific instance of the stabbing, which was indeed self-defense.
Self-defense that put a legally adult (alleged) serial rapist and attempted murderer in the hospital. She could have legally shot him in the head (other than it probably not being legal to have a gun on campus) and walked away.
It is very likely some combination of parental denial and legal maneuvering.
Yeah you’d be surprised how blind parents can be to the kind of people their kids are. I had a room mate in college who was just awful. Always threw parties without asking the rest of us, got in trouble with the school and the police on multiple occasions, lied about deaths in the family to get out of homework assignments, eventually got kicked out of school (but calls herself an “alumni”)
yet when my parents had to call her parents about her lack of paying rent (I was the one who collected all the rent checks) they were convinced I or one of our other room mates must’ve been a “bad influence” because their precious daughter would NEVER behave such a way (I, for the record, was a mild-mannered nerd who was terrified of parties & hated getting in trouble…pretty sure I wasn’t the bad influence).
I see it a lot too as a parent now…there are always those parents who think their child is flawless, and it results in them growing up into an adult with no solid moral code & the parents still being clueless.
Okay, Amber isn’t completely letting go of “monster”, but she could have fought her mother a lot harder on that. Hope?
“…and neither are you.”
Good Momming, Stacy.
I mean, she’s still being grouped into the same category as Dickard, so it’s okay Momming at best
It is excellent momming. Amber even accepted it herself, even if a bit tentatively, which we’ve seen is no small feat.
Wait, which boy’s parents is she referring to?
The guy with the phone, whatshisscar
Everyone has a phone in this comic. That doesn’t narrow it down much.
Not just a phone. The phone.
He tried calling, but got cut off.
It’s the guy with the knife who attacked Dorothy and Amber. Directly beforehand someone in the comments was insisting very strongly that they didn’t think the object he was holding (which was obscured somewhat in that day’s strip) was in fact a knife, but a phone.
It’s since become something of a running joke in the comment section. And I think the alt-text once.
Presumably Ryan, whom Amber attacked! (Hence why his parents would be suing Amber’s parents.)
Ryan, the scar-faced rapist who got gutted by his own knife.
Ryan’s. Because she messed him UP.
….we’re all so helpful.
Ryan’s, I expect.
The guy she stabbed into resembling a slice of Swiss cheese. I’m no expert on law but not sure if they have a case since I’m assuming by Amber not being in jail and being allowed to return to school that it was ruled as self defense, though if the apple didn’t fall far from the tree the guy’s parents are probably as douchy as him…and the legal bills alone can eat up money real quick.
While the state has decided there is no criminal case, anyone is able to start a civil case if they think they have a claim for damages (this actually means compensation). Civil cases can’t use the lack of or existence of a criminal case to bolster or diminish claims.
I don’t know if it is different in American law, but in Scot’s Law, civil cases are based on a balance of probabilities which means it has to be more likely than not that the defendant’s conduct was unacceptable (like, the judge could be only convinced it is 51% the more likely case and rule in the pursuer’s favour). However, it would be up to Ryan’s parents to prove that Amber broke common law or case law in some manner since they are the pursuer.
I can’t say whether it would meet necessary criteria to be argued (as the only part of law I have a fair idea of is for negligence claims), but I do expect what they are likely trying to sue for is likely excessive force or if they are completely blind to reality, they may be trying to sue for assault.
However, I would say he is likely to lose the civil case under assumption of risk/volenti non fit injuria, because by bringing the knife himself and threatening people with said knife, it is logical to conclude that he consented to the risk that they might defend themselves which would also include the risk that they could ultimately use said knife against him. Even if he didn’t personally consider that, a reasonable person could have foreseen that.
The typical phrase in American civil suits is “preponderance of evidence”, so it sounds like pretty much the same standard.
There’s presumably security footage of Ryan pulling his phone on Amber and Dorothy. The only case they have against Amber is how far she went after she disarmed him. Considering the tape, Dorothy’s front row seat as an eyewitness, and all Ryan’s other victims who came forward after he was arrested, it’s doubtful he’ll get much sympathy from a judge or jury.
Unfortunately none of that prevents Ryan’s parents from filing a lawsuit, and regardless of the outcome Stacy and Amber are on the hook for their defense lawyer’s bill. The US has no “loser pays everyone’s legal fees” statue.
The loser can be made to pay the bill, but in the meantime that lawyer still needs paying TODAY, and they haven’t won the case yet.
Of course you can counter-sue to try and get your money back, but that means another court ordeal and more lawyers.
If it happened automatically, we might see fewer frivolous lawsuits. However, we all know that won’t happen because lawyers get paid good money for all those services. There’s gold in them thar lawsuits!
OTOH, we might also see the stakes go up in non-frivolous lawsuits, since the defender would know if they win all the legal fees would be covered. Can you imagine trying to sue a company knowing you’d have to cover the expenses for their high-priced legal team if they win. Could easily be more than you’re suing for in the first place.
Yeah, speaking as a freelancer who often sees freelance artists’ work stolen by large corporations, this could be very very bad, making it even more risky & cost-prohibitive for independent artists to sue corporations for copyright infringement (and similar scenarios), because even if they’re in the right, experience has taught me the company with the most money often “wins.” 😐
Basically our legal system does a poor job of protecting the poor, victims, and independent creators. And I don’t know what the solution to that problem is.
Yup. What’s that old saying? If a town has one lawyer, he starves, If it has two lawyers, they both get rich.
There’s definitely clear security footage: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/04-the-do-list/visitation/
51% is right. As for violating common law, there’s an excellent case of battery resorting in damages in the form of physical suffering, medical bills, and probably emotional suffering. (Some of that is explicit law.) The obvious legal defense to this is, well, defense, saying that Ryan attacked her. Dorothy’s testimony and the cameras would probably back that up. Still, it’s something you need a lawyer for, and lawyers are pricey. They’re also not free for civil defendants. (Not that the free ones are much good for criminal defendants. Topic for another rant.)
There definitely is an argument he could make, however, I wouldn’t say it is an ‘excellent case’ since Amber has a pretty solid defense which can be backed up by a witness, security footage and again, Ryan himself brought the knife that was used against him and wielded it as a threat against people, which implies through his actions that he accepted all possible risks in doing so by wielding it against them (it would be different if he hadn’t actually wielded it as that could likely be argued as contributory in that he was carrying the knife used against him but he didn’t accept the risk of using such a weapon or it being used against him). If it is accepted that Ryan accepted all the risks, that is a full defense, and while you could argue nervous shock (this is the term we use for mental distress in our law) for his parents, if Amber isn’t liable for the injuries, she also wouldn’t be liable for that as by law, she wouldn’t be responsible for them occurring, Ryan would.
Law can be finicky though in that civil is solely up to a judge (fun fact, in Scotland we have Sheriff’s Courts so we have sheriffs still) who may make a bizarre judgement. A bizarre judgement is actually why grinding wheels were actually illegal for like 19 years or something because they weren’t fully guarded and had to be for safety reasons but were unusable if completely guarded.
Well, okay, I’ll rephrase. He can very easily prove battery. That’s what I meant by an excellent case for battery. But then Amber’s side would get to prove she acted in defense of herself, Dorothy, and Joyce, and that would also be fairly easy to prove and would make her not liable.
…. you know, if they can afford a competent attorney.
Well, that went better than I expected. Course, I expected it to devolve into screaming by panel 3, so.
Screaming at what? Unexpected spiders are for Halloween.
You expected a cutaway to a Jason / Walky tutoring sesion?
Of *course* Ryan’s parents are suing. Scumfucks.
I’ve known otherwise decent people who will side with their children over anything. If it’s a question of who to believe, their child, or some other entity, they know who they trust.
I suspect it’s human nature.
Further, they may be suing for medical expenses, and their own insurance company may be forcing them to.
I’m reminded of the shitty parents of rapists who petitioned Betsy DeVos to overturn all campus rape policies in order to protect their “sweet innocent baby boys”.
If they’re so fucking innocent, why do they need to worry about those policies?
Because “the evil liberal campus officials are conspiring to ruin the lives of our innocent boys by falsely accusing them of these crimes.”
I wish I was making this up.
Yup, while also straight up admitting their precious children did commit their crimes and that they had “warned their children about knocking that stuff off before” but stating that that shouldn’t “ruin their futures”.
So it’s parents who straight up know that their kids are serial rapists but petitioned the highest level of government to try and make sure there were no consequences for their rapist offspring.
There are many on the right who can’t shut up about their (fantasy) idea that false accusations of sexual assault / rape are incredibly higher than in actuality.
It’s an article of faith among many MRA, right wing media, and GOP.
In actuality, false accusation of these crimes are very low, and in l722nd with the figures for all crimes.
(Also, what KD said.)
Unless of course it’s liberal Hollywood types being accused. In which case they’re right on board and blaming everybody else in Hollywood for not doing something when they always knew.
Not that we shouldn’t believe those accusations, just that the incredibly tribal nature of it for those on the right jumped out at me.
Ryan is a preacher’s son. Not just in his father’s profession but particularly so, admitting to having a serial rapist as a son is a pretty ugly thing. It’s easier to go with Ryan’s story for now, and I’m sure he has had time for inventing one now. I mean, he is on the same campus. And neither law nor law enforcement care for vigilant action, and that’s what Amber’s actions really amounted to once she had disarmed and disabled Ryan. The rest was for fun rather than self-defense.
And Amber never was a victim of Ryan. So no, cost-shifting will quite likely not be granted and Amber’s family will have to shoulder the cost of her legal defense even if Amber should manage to get out of having to pay the medical bills.
Amber was a victim of Ryan. He pulled a knife and tried to kill her. She didn’t just jump out of nowhere and attack him because he was a known rapist. He’s on the hook there for at least assault with a deadly weapon, if not attempted murder.
My family also threatens to murder everyone’s new boyfriends if they hurt our loved ones. Murder threats are how we show love!
One of these days, some young man is going to get the father of his prom date arrested…for assault with a deadly weapon.
Think about it, if you are PURPOSELY cleaning your gun collection IN ORDER TO intimidate your daughters date, how is that NOT assault with a deadly weapon?
It’s not assault because there’s no actual contact. Some variety of menacing, sure, although there’s no way that would get so much as an indictment.
Just gonna copy and paste from a dictionary on this one:
Assault (legal def): “a threat or attempt to inflict offensive physical contact or bodily harm on a person (as by lifting a fist in a threatening manner) that puts the person in immediate danger of or in apprehension (see apprehension 1) of such harm or contact — compare battery”
Yeah, that could definitely count if he puts the date in fear for their safety, since it is a threat of violence.
I guess if you’re cleaning a stripped down gun in front of someone, the threat doesn’t qualify under the stipulation of ‘immediate’ danger?
I’m not sure how Ryan’s parents can win this lawsuit considering Amber was acting in self-defense after he approached with a knife.
They can’t, but they sure can make losing expensive for everyone involved.
Unfortunately they don’t have to win… they just have to sue hard enough that the defendants go broke defending themselves. :-\
Well, it was self-defense enough that there’s not a criminal charge, but civil suits can be different. I mean, hopefully they won’t win, but with the cost of lawyers it’s a financial burden either way. Heck, if they can swing it, I’ve heard of people suing without really expecting to win, just to “punish” the other party.
It’s pretty common. Especially among rich folks and abusers. Like, there’s a lot of extended custody battles by abusive parents who just want to hurt the person for leaving them and have no real interest in ever actually seeing the child.
It’s a petty harassment technique as well as a means of trying to negate the actual purpose of civil lawsuits which can be a key mechanism of bringing justice to corporate malfeasance or violation of civil laws like the ADA.
Really depends on how Indiana handles the defense of self defense. Honestly I’m surprised most states have a duty to retreat so it’s possible that prosecutor chose not to pursue criminal charges but that still leaves civil liability
Most states *DO NOT* have a duty to retreat, and especially not Indiana, which has set precedent towards standing-one-ground-in-practice. Vermont is the only state to do so; and only around dozen others have a duty-to-retreat in public.
It’s actually not most. It’s around 19 states with a duty to retreat. See e.g. http://volokh.com/2013/07/17/duty-to-retreat/
Volokh is a libertarian, but he’s a law professor who writes for the Washington Post, so I think his numbers are fairly trustworthy, and mirror what I learned in criminal law.
Also worth noting that some states have caselaw cutting against a duty to retreat. There is an Indiana case which literally said that retreating was Un-American.
Ugh. I prefer the precedent of Leach v Otto, where Archie invoked North Vietnam and the jury’s decision was applied by steamroller.
From what I understand in the US it’s pretty much a given you’ll get sued no matter how justified your claim of self defense is.
Pretty sure my mom got counter-sued by the guy who destroyed her leg with his truck. Assailants always think they’re the ones under attack.
Ah, the old “you hit me back, I’m telling!” defense.
Yeah.
Back when I was 16, some asshole was really impatient with me when I was trying to turn left out of a parking lot near a busy intersection during rush hour. After laying on her horn for a few minutes, she actively and intentionally rear-ended me… and then told her insurance company I’d backed into her.
Unfortunately in that region, the insurance policy was 50/50 for any accident in a parking lot, so I was on the hook for half the damages because she rear-ended me on purpose because she was road raging.
SO MUCH RAGE.
It’s been 14 years and I’m still pissed at the injustice of it.
I live in the UK and got hit by a car a few days before I turned 13. A letter came for me a few months later. I opened it and quickly handed it to my dad with an “umm..?!” It said I was being sued for damages to the car.
My parents phoned the lady who had hit me and she was utterly HORRIFIED – her insurance company had decided to do this on her behalf and hadn’t talked to her beforehand. Think she immediately called them up and told them to drop it.
Not sure if she pointed out I had been 12 at the time and therefore below the age of legal liability so it was a stupid move as well as a nasty one… Also that bit where she had told my mum at the time that she hadn’t been able to work out what I was doing and sped up when she saw me. I had been reading on the road island whilst waiting for a break in traffic, looked up, saw somebody crossing towards me and assumed I would also have time to cross a single lane of traffic… But a lot of witnesses thought I was reading and had just stepped out without looking up.
Sorry you had to go through that – still must’ve been quite a shock to get that letter. :/
But even if you were reading and stepping onto the street (not that I assume you were doing that), you were standing on a road island, you were 12 years old, so speeding past you sounds like a very unreasonable action. Children (I include young teenagers into that) and older people are supposed to not be trusted in traffic, as their sight and perception just aren’t like the one of an adult. Not to assume you didn’t have perfect sight or anything, but it sounds like the fault was definitely on the lady’s side (and if it was just bad reaction), so her insurance wanting to sue you was stretching it quite a bit.
It was a bit surreal! I should have looked sideways before starting to cross – apparently the person crossing towards me had been chancing it a bit and she’d had to slow down for him, but was starting to speed back up. So don’t think she was going 30 mph when she hit me (and it was still high enough impact that my bone didn’t start healing on its own so 5 months later they needed to give me a bone graft and metal plate and screws to get things moving) – but yeah, as a driver I am generally hyper-aware of people waiting to cross!
What was he suing for, her leg damaging the paint on his truck?
If you can’t afford to pay a lawyer to draft a response, then you lose. Civil court is bad times if you’re not at least upper middle class and your opponent is vindictive and is willing to spend a lot of money to harass or hurt you.
How come the court can’t stop obviously bullshitty civil cases without costs to the attacked side?
And isn’t there at least a fund for people being sued after self-defence if law practice is this crazy?
The bar for having something thrown out as frivolous is extremely high. If Ryan is suing over excessive force, that’s definitely a weak case, but it’s not a frivolous one. The court can’t just refuse to hear it.
There’s criminal law, and there’s civil law. Even if Amber is completely cleared under criminal law — which you kinda think would happen, but the justice system in America is not particularly good at producing justice — anyway, lawsuits happen under civil law, where the judgment tends to be in the favor of the side with the highest-paid lawyers.
With large amounts of money.
The basis of the suit would be that leaving aside the rape allegations, and the fact that Ryan was there to, and I quote. “carve” his “Unfinished Business” onto “the Blue-Eyed Girl”‘s Face, Ryan was disarmed. Then Amber punched him. That’s still pretty unambiguously self-defense…
but then she stabbed/slashed him with his own knife. Multiple times. that could be considered ‘unnecessary’.
AKA making sure he didn’t pick up the knife again because those little deets we have just been asked to disregard do actually matter?
to be clear, i absolutely agree.
but the visual of Amber sitting on his chest, expanding his collection of facial scars would (hypothetically) be the sort of thing one would play on to ‘justify’ a civil suit for ‘excess force’. Amber may have been legally in the right to disarm him, but IF she stabbed him repeatedly, there is legal precedent that can be played upon. i.e. “He had a knife to her throat. She went for S.I.N.G., rupturing an undiagnosed aneurysm. His family sued for wrongful death.
There’s no “may” about the legal right to disarm him.
You have to go pretty far in defending yourself from a guy who attacked you with a knife to really get in trouble. As long as she stopped slashing/stabbing soon after he stopped doing anything that could be interpreted as hostile, she’s in the clear. Even if that involved repeated stabbings – you’re not required to stab an attacker once, then wait to see if they’re done. It’s not always instantly clear how badly you’ve hurt someone or even if it’s bad, if it will be enough to stop them quickly, so strike again.
Probably several times in the space of a couple seconds.
Now if he’s down on the ground, doing nothing more than twitching and you’re carving your name into his chest, then there’s a case. 🙂
I think the argument would run; “Yes, my baby boy over reacted and menaced these two sluts with a knife, but once the psychopathic slut disarmed him, he was no longer a threat and anything she did to him AFTER disarming him constitutes assault.”
“He was bigger and stronger than me and he kept coming. I was afraid he’d overpower me or take the knife back.”
Awwww Stace. Awwww Amber. I so want those two to be happy and well and ;~; It probably says something about the quality of parents in this strip (or the quality of the parents I know, take your pick) that I’m genuinely pleased Stacey is ignoring the “you love monsters” part of Amber’s accusation (which she could’ve taken personally) in favor of trying to convince Amber she is NOT a monster.
Also, I immediately got mad at the bit about Ryan’s parents suing when it was FUCKING SELF-DEFENSE AND DEFENSE OF OTHERS YOU CAN’T SUE OVER THAT…except in civil court you can sue over anything you can get a lawyer to agree to, it just doesn’t mean you’ll win. But, still means a lot of legal headache and sunk cash for Stacey and Amber.
Isn’t suing someone who is broke pretty much pointless?
Not if your goal is to drive them into bankruptcy.
Not if you’re not expecting to get paid or even win, but just want to punish the other person for daring to defend herself against your horrible rapist son.
You can also do it out of spite, or as a bullying tactic to get criminal charges dropped (I have no idea if that’d even be up to Amber in this case tho), or just spite.
Or they might do it because that’s what you’d expect someone to do if they were falsely accused of the things Ryan actually did. If even if they lose or the suit gets thrown out as soon as it gets in front of a judge, they still might somewhat to mitigate some of the social / career ramifications for their little shitface, because sometimes people will look for any tiny excuse to avoid accepting the fact that people they know or who are like themselves might be capable of awful things.
Yeah, pretty much this. Pastor’s Kid and all – having an evil rapist of a child kind of disqualifies someone from being a pastor. Kinda suggests that you’re a terrible parent and screwed him up big time.
Probably true in both regards, unless ol’ Scarface had some sort of mental disorder.
I wouldn’t necessarily say that they’re terrible parents just because their kid is a rapist. Sometimes, parents do everything they possibly can, and the kid winds up being a piece of shit anyway. I wouldn’t even say that their shitty retaliatory lawsuit is necessarily an example of bad parenting, just shitty people being shitty.
Possibly. But then again, when he confronts Dorothy, he’s not at all concerned about getting caught by authorities, or having his future dragged through the mud. It’s “my dad’s going to see that.” His father was also what defined him when he first appeared years ago at the party.
Whatever Ryan’s got going on, I’m sure father issues are part of it.
I don’t like the assumption that a mental disorder alone would lead to being a rapey piece of shit. Even the tiny subset of mental disorders that lend themselves to violence more than to vulnerability are up against the willpower and skills of the host. Plus the little shit doesn’t show any signs of not understanding exactly what he’s done, or not being fully in control of himself.
Rapists aren’t some kind of special monster. they’re ordinary everyday people. that’s what makes them so fucking disturbing.
I was referring actually to psychopathy, which is linked to several genetic traits and causes a person to have extremely reduced empathy to others and violent tenancies. Treating others as objects to be manipulated for a person’s enjoyment is one of those things. Something I’ve studied in great detail.
It’s not exactly ‘up to the willpower and skills of the host’ because it’s not exactly an influencing condition; it’s a defining condition. The psychopath may *learn* to act in a good, socially acceptable way, but does so only because they have learned that this is the best way to get what they want, not out of any sort of goodwill for others. And “best behavior” only goes so far – even if a psychopath decides for himself not to rape another despite being able to get away with it, that doesn’t mean that they don’t do many OTHER extremely manipulative behaviors throughout their lives that abuse people in terrible ways.
Psychopathy isn’t a real diagnosis anymore. It – and sociopathy – have been replaced by Anti Social Personality Disorder. And when psychopathy was a thing, it was defined by lack of clinical empathy – i.e. the ability to feel another person’s emotions in a sort of echo (like being sad when you see someone sad). It did NOT mean the lack of ability to like others and want them to be happy. Hell, even today, part of treating ASPD often includes giving them a (monitored) position of responsibility, like having an animal or teaching small children a skill. The point is to frame it in self interest, like ‘okay, you like Person X. If you do Y, you won’t be able to see Person X anymore. Better not do Y then.’
Here’s the thing. That door would have a security camera, even if it wasn’t actively monitored. He was actively and publicly being looked for, as an attempted rapist. He pulled out a knife, and threatened to women with it, on said camera. One would also argue that he intended to gain entry to the building, whether or not the girls were there at that door, at that time. Amber had plenty of reason to feel that her life, and the life of others (Dorothy +), were at risk due to the knife wielding attacker. Therefor, she was in her right to defend herself, and others, in what way as she felt was necessary, from this active threat. And, she stopped short of killing him, when she had the ability to do so.
Also, there were witnesses. Although we didn’t see it, others from the lobby would have come to investigate. This was a trafficked area, and others could have come along the path, or had reason to leave the building.
I would like to think that no prosecutor worth their salt would charge Amber. And, there is good reason to thing that scarface would be up on charges. But, you can sue for almost any reason.
There can also be an insurance reason. In some cases, you may be required to file a lawsuit if the injury or damage involves another party who could be held responsible.
There was a thing a couple of years ago about a woman who sued her nephew, who was 8 at the time of the incident, for accidentally breaking her wrist when he did a flying leap hug at her at a birthday party. On the surface, it seems pretty ridiculous, suing child for damages. But:
1. insurance was only going to pay out one whole dollar
2. If an injury claim is filed with a Connecticut insurer, the injured party has to take the responsible party to court. (The woman was from NY, but the accident took place in CT, and a claim was filed on the parents’ homeowner’s insurance)
Now, maybe she’s the kind of person who would have sued regardless, but that’s not the point. Even if she didn’t want to, having a claim filed to try to get his parents’ homeowner’s insurance to cover her broken wrist would still have ended with the matter in court because of state law. I think there are also some situations where a person’s own insurance will make you sue the other party before they’ll move forward on a claim, but I’m more fuzzy on that since insurance is not my gig.
I’m not saying that’s necessarily the reason why Ryan’s parents are suing, just that there are some reasons why people may sue in general that don’t have anything to do with what they personally want).
Ryan also might have told his dad that Amber is AG and thus dad thinks he can get a quick win by threatening to drag Amber through discovery.
He’s in for a surprise then.
Not if you’re doing it to try to inflict as much pain as possible on them.
Not if the point is to intimidate the person and anyone like them from ever daring to notice the crimes you are committing and communicating the message that you can financially ruin someone with wasted time and money with what is for you the equivalent of pocket change.
It’s about discouraging anyone from seeking justice against you since it will be clear you will make it as personally and financially painful as possible. See also why a lot of rape victims and victims of police violence don’t even bother seeking justice anymore.
MAM theory is a bit more personal than its cousin, and so not as popular.
Well that certainly does suck for the O’Malley’s, but most lawyers turn their nose up at shaking down broke people so it’s probably someone looking for attention. Personally, I think they should counter sue.
And probably find a lawyer who will do it pro bono.
They can probably fight fire with fire. I’m sure there’s a grandstanding lawyer who would just love to take the case since Ryan’s parents probably benefit nicely from the collection plate so deep pockets. And while this is a floating timeline it just happens that right now it’s open season on men who can’t kept their hands to themselves.
With the exception of one. Althought depending on what those indictments bring forth from his former aides, he might not be safe much longer.
Stabbing him was emotionally distressing for my client.
Your comment made me think about Raidah’s and Jacob’s families…
*plays Warren Zevon’s “Lawyers, Guns And Money” on the hacked Muzak*
Hey, I resemble that remark.
Seriously, LawyersGunsMoneyBlog is pretty cool.
The Clash – “I Fought the Law but the Law Won”!
Obama: “You can keep your doctor … even if they’re dead! We will raise them by appointment. Special discounts on Halloween and Easter”
Trump: “I’m going to have all the doctors deported. It will save the American people money because there will be no more doctor bills”
You can’t get sick of you’re dead!
You can if they’re stinkin’ up the room. Heyoooo!
Gold 🌟
Is Ryan in a coma or like awake but can’t move?
We can only hope.
Earlier I was wondering why there wasn’t a new strip out yet today, then I remembered DST finally ended. (I live in Arizona where we don’t have it)
This post is about 30 minutes late, but whatever
There are at least four possibilities here:
1) Richard went out and bought a set of clothes for Stacy, before driving down from Mishawaka — and he knew her sizes well enough that those clothes fit okay.
2) Richard has, in his closet, various sets of womens clothes — either as trophies, or he’s just prepared — and he knew this particular set would fit Stacy.
3) Stacy keeps at least one spare set of clothes at Richard’s place in Mishawaka.
4) Richard has keys to Stacy’s apartment in Indianapolis, and stopped there on the way to Bloomington.
4 seems most likely. But if it’s 1, my hat’s off to him. Women’s clothing sizes can seem like an almost impenetrable mystery to those of us who don’t have to navigate in that world on a regular basis.
I interpreted it as 3
they can be a mystery to those of us who do, too.
I never really thought about it, but male privilege extends to things as petty as consistent clothing sizes, huh.
Not exactly – men’s clothes are just as likely to be weird and slightly off in various directions, but men’s fashions are a lot more forgiving of a waistline being slightly off or of your pants leg being a little long or short.
And lets be explicit here. Men’s off-the-rack clothing increments by two inches generally. on both waist and leg ‘sizes’ so I can either get a pair of pants that juuust touches the tops of your shoes and will easily show two inches of sock when I sit down, or I can have my socks consistently covered, and ‘look like a slob’ because the bottom seam of my pants pools slightly on my shoe.
Sidenote: my girlfriend raided my closet for pants all the time because we had the same waist size, comperable leg-length, and she enjoyed having multiple pockets that could actually hold more than 2.50USD in quarters without showing a bulge.
5) Those are Richard’s own clothes, and Stacy and he have the same size.
New headcanon
Now, now. Ryan is… well, he’s a good student. a very good student. Good family. Promising future. There is no reason to… to shine a spotlight here. There’s lot at risk.
Ugh. That sounds like a direct quote, but I can’t place it. Sickeningly familiar.
It comes from one of the times the Proper Authorities did a… less than stellar job impressing Sal with their competence and fairness.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-7/01-glower-vacuum/liability/
Dang. It never occurred to me it could be a DOA quote!
Robin’s assistant explaining why they shouldn’t denounce Ryan.
Andy Partridge and XTC made a great song much along the same lines.
Skinhead son, judge father, but the same principle applies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfE-z0RN7n0
Comic Reactions:
Brief life update: Been in-and-out dealing with what may be the start of a chronic pain condition which is… yay so that’s why I’ve been gone a lot. Also been having lapses with my anti-depressants with the insurance switch and it’s fucking with me in very bad ways that increase my tendency to hermit and crawl into myself. Upside is work is great and super accommodating over the fact that I have to hobble when I come into work.
Panel 4: I want to focus the most on this moment because it’s a beautiful moment. Amber hurt her in a really sore area, but this was the most important thing for her to hammer home. And it shows the heart that is there behind the actions. She’s not perfect, she misses a lot of red flags, but she cares a ton for her daughter and it shows in what matters to her and what she attempts to do even if she is floundering a lot.
This is something Amber also needs to hear. Because it’s something the world and our brains are really good at fucking with when you’re a multiple system or when you have PTSD or when you are a survivor of abuse.
And as we see in the next panel, this actually gets through to Amber in a way no one else has been able to. She accepts for a moment the premise that she’s not actually a monster and allows it to become a future rather than a present in her personal narrative.
And that matters, those little bits allow her back out of her self-loathing shell so she can see the world didn’t come cratering down and she’s not all the things she has internalized from the world and her father.
Stacey is trying to be a good mom. Right now she’s succeeding beautifully.
Glad to see you back in the comments. Sorry about the pain and how much insurance sucks.
Stace is a genuinely good person, and even if she falters occasionally, she is a good mama. I
project onidentify a lot with Amber, and so her having a supportive mother means a lot to me.And it would’ve been so easy to take the “you love monsters” comment personally, but she’s putting it aside to care for her daughter.
All the hugs. Take care of youreself, and I’m glad work is fine.
And I feel so much for Stacy. She does as best as she can, and she worries it isn’t enough. But here, as you say, she actually reaches Amber.
*hugs* pain sucks. antidepressants also suck. I started tapering my migraine med that’s also an antidepressant last week; today after getting home from an appointment I just crawled into bed and read until about an hour after my dinner reminder went off. I hope you feel less bad soon! and definitely do your own research on the pain stuff, my doctors were kind of not super effective (hell the first one basically gave me an extra year of unnecessary pain)
Panel 4 gives me hope. <3
Glad you’re back, I always appreciate your insight on the comics and I’m sorry you’re suffering from chronic pain, if I had any good advice to offer from experience I’d give it
I’m sorry to hear about the possibly developing pain condition, and the insurance just…just sucks. On the bright side I’m happy that your new job is going well.
Also, really agree with your assessment of Stacey’s moming ability.
I hope chronic pain condition is a reasonably manageable one (also chronic pain and depression can gang up together to do a real number on you – please watch out for that and look after yourself) and antidepressant stuff settles down and they build back up to “doing their job” levels again soon.
Hooray for job being understanding (although in fairness – and it may be easier to see this if you ask yourself how you’d view it if it was someone else?- being nasty to somebody for being in pain would be s horrible thing for your employer/supervisor(s)/co-workers to do).
Oh dear, Cerberus; I’d say ‘welcome to the chronic pain club’ but that wouldn’t make
a whole lot ofany sense. *Appropriate gesture of support*The chronic pain club is a really weird sandwich
Welcome back! Sorry about the pain 8(
If it makes you feel better, I heard one of the fuckers who wants to gut health insurance now has 5 broken ribs over, apparently, azaleas.
Add my welcome to the chorus. Hope pain managing goes well.
Panel 5: Oof, this is an important thing, because it gets into an aspect of abuse and broken systems and how they interconnect with capitalism.
Like, on the Power and Control Wheel, there’s a wedge that goes “Using Economic Abuse” :http://safehavenshelter.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/power-and-control-wheel.png
And that’s a major thing. Our capitalist system makes it really hard to break away from shitty situations and makes it really easy to fall back into new shitty situations, because it allows folks to have the power of life or death over you.
Like, it matters when figuring out how to leave a Blaine figure on how to make sure you still remain fed and yet remain hidden enough that he can’t find you and try to kill you. And it can limit one’s options to choosing between several terrible choices.
And our lack of any real safety net allows abusers to exploit this system to its max. Abusive families holding financial support as leverage for trying to force queer kids back into the closet or otherwise control their living situations. Abusive romantic partners limiting their partners ability to live independently of them so they feel powerless to object to their awful actions.
And as we see here, it allows a perfect machine of psuedo-legal intimidation for the rich to exploit against any who dare notice their crimes. We’ve seen time and time again how Trump has used threats of expensive lawsuits to try and silence anyone who’s noticed his many many crimes. How that is a common practice among the rich. How some like Weinstein have even hired private goons to straight up harass mafioso style those who dare reject their attempts at abuse or threaten to report them.
And it works because people don’t trust they’ll see justice and that if they do, it’ll be years in the future when they’ve already been rendered bankrupt and homeless. The lack of a safety net robs us of our full agency to escape these abusive dynamics and we see it outlined here. Amber and her mom sued for defending herself because of a family unable to own their shitty son’s actions.
And Stacey once again feeling trapped to a man who we at least know to be awful out of economic necessity and need to protect her daughter.
These are the chains that drag good people down and it’s why the same forces that are on the sides of the abusers tend to also be on the sides against having a system that allows people to escape and build their lives free from the toxic whims of the rich and powerful.
:c
I know Richard is a totally gross and creepy person. I want him to be trying to be better for Stacey–don’t trust that he is, but still, I’m hopeful. So I’m hoping that last panel was a throwaway joke…
Also, because I got sidetracked last comment, I hope you feel (at least relatively) better soon! Take care of yourself, lady ♥
I think it was a grim joke to match Amber’s grim joke about murder. Richard might or might not prove good for Stacy, but she isn’t with him for money.
It’s really quite funny. The creepy sex-obsessed dude goes all “Son, don’t panic but… I might be in love” and the good and loving mom is all “Daughter we need that doctor’s money because we are Broke!”
Nice flip of roles.
Having escaped Blaine and hunted by Ryan’s parents, Stacy must see Richard as the better option even if she knows exactly what he is.
Poor Stacy 🙁
Yeah, between a Blaine and a Richard, the latter option is far less dangerous. I’d take cheating-asshole over willfully-endangers-and-abuses-family any day.
And yes, I’m aware how awful that pronouncement is. -_- Stacy needs a break. And maybe internet dating. Or a dog.
Is there an app that’s like Tinder, but for dog walkers/sitters? Like, the dog owner sets up a profile, and then people with the app can decide if they want to play with/walk/watch it? Obviously with a chat window, so the owner and user can arrange details.
Can I buy into your IPO?
Me too?
Yeah. And that’s also a thing after getting out of abusive relationships. It lowers your standards of what is an unacceptable thing in a relationship. Like, oh they’re a cheater? Well at least they aren’t putting me in fear of when they are going to next hit me and in the meantime I’m getting fulfilling sex.
“At least he gets out of the house regularly”
At least the women he’s cheating on me with are mostly upstanding citizens.
Cheating has been made out to be a moral wrong deserving of physical violence when it really just…..isn’t. Someone you thought should only be banging you ends up banging someone else. Yes, your hurt, and feel betrayed, and you are well within your rights to leave that person.
But it’s not EVIL. Nowhere near the same league as sexual or physical violence. And while cheating CAN be a part of emotional abuse, it’s more often a symptom of emotional weakness on the part of the cheater. It’s a human condition thing. Even good people slip up, and our biological drives aren’t well-suited to monogamy in the first place, especially when there aren’t even children in the picture.
A lot of people take ‘cheating womanizer’ and equate it with ‘wife-beating rapist’ for no good reason, when the scales of harm are completely different.
ITYM leave that person *and* get an STD test. 😛
That’s all true, but don’t underestimate the emotional damage that kind of betrayal can cause. Unless it’s a one-time slip-up, it’s usually combined with an awful lot of lying and denial and sneaking around.
Slipping up is one thing, established patterns are another.
Generally it also involves lying and manipulation of the person you’re cheating with.
And of course, in Richard’s case, there was a child and it’s pretty obvious the harm that’s been done to him.
The entire US justice system is at best a dark joke and at worst a horrid abomination to most developed countries. And the fact that someone can be cleared of a crime but still taken to civil court is really just straight up fucked.
OTOH, it’s often provided some measure of balance when the criminal part goes awry. There have been a lot of successful “use of force” and “wrongful death” suits against police departments who’ve successfully protected their officers from criminal charges.
How awful. And the rich wonder why we are not more grateful that they let us live. When they let us live.
The Weinstein agents were, apparently, ex-Mossad, further proving that anything that involves Israel in any way, shape, or form, is full of fuckery.
No WONDER people were shitting their pants at the thought of talking about Weinstein.
“Why didn’t those women come forward earlier?”
I think we’ve got even more of an answer for that now.
I think one of them even pretended to be Rose McGowan’s friend, waaaay back when she first said she’d been raped, to gather intel on her.
The bottom of the barrel is no place to stop, apparently.
Ryan’s parents are suing Amber?! This is some Brock Turner-enabling BS.
Aw crud. I’ve never seen how lawsuits actually play out, but if Amber is forced to go in and give her side to people wanting her to contradict herself, the battle between her self-loathing and her intent to help Dorothy and Joyce is just going to get worse.
I’m surprised at Amber’s reaction here. Like, Richard wasn’t exactly dancing around the topic of the relationship, but I suppose it’s one thing to hear it from a guy she’s likely tuning out and another to hear it from her mom.
Nah I think it’s the committed nature, Richard says banging on the regular but she’s not only leaving changes of clothes at his place but he’s bringing them in an uncharacteristically thoughtful act
Ugh. Not-Ryan’s parents WOULD be the suing type. Eh, fuck ‘em, there’s more than enough evidence to lock the bastard up.
OT: Are Gender-reveal-parties for unborn babys really a thing?
There’s an article about it on the b*media site, saying people don’t get the result of a gender check from the doctor, but it’s given to a baker, piniata-maker, party-organizer, whatever and by the color of the cake or other symbolic stuff, the gender of the yet unborn is revealed to all in a party-like environment (and the event shown on YouTube).
I never heard about something like that before (but then I don’t spend much time watching YouTube), so, do people really do that?
What you’re describing sounds incredibly creepy. I’ve heard of parties where the parents reveal the kid’s sex to their friends and family, since it’s pretty common around here. But the version you’re talking about is on another planet.
Stupid people do unfortunately
I am sad to inform you that yes, its a thing. The worst one i’ve seen was the ones doing a photoshoot where they had a box with some powder that they SHOT WITH A GUN, because it was the american way to show what “gender” (really just what genitals the doctor thought they saw) their baby got
“because it was the american way to[…]”
I’m sorry, WHAT? I swear, if I get the chance, I’m moving to another country and working toward citizenship. It’s not like I’ll be any more confused by their culture than I am by this one.
Yeah, it’s a real thing. How soon we forget.
Okay. The way you framed that, plus the headline, combined with Nymphie’s post above, made me think that the PARENTS shot a woman who was down-range during their Reveal party because, as a citizen of the United States…, sometimes US citizens are stupid with firearms.
for those who don’t click on the link in Bicycle Bill’s post. two gunmen broke in and opened fire during a reveal party.
No, I was refrencing the one in this article, with photographer Anna Elizabeth
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/05/06/baby_gender_reveals_involving_guns_explosives_and_colored_chalk.html
Yup, that’s a thing.
It is a thing that is done. In either a party-like environment, as you note, or a full-on party. Sometimes the parents know beforehand, and the reveal is for everyone else; sometimes it is as you have heard described.
I think gender reveal announcements are somewhat more common than parties, but yeah, baby gender reveals in general are very much A Thing.
In my country determining the sex of the foetus is against the law so hooray, no corny stereotyping-with-colours gender reveal parties.
I’ve heard of them and they generally make me cringe.
But I guess it’s a normaler thing now, like expectant couples choosing whether or not the baby’s gender is to be revealed to them during pre-natal care.
(Disclaimer about my age & never having kids, and wondering if I’m old enough to tie an onion on my belt.)
(Also: Prom-posals, are they here to stay?)
Thanks all.
What the article described sounded distinctly creepy, but somehow so absurd I wasn’t sure if it might be satire. Nowadays, life tends to exceed most satire notions. Hopefully it will take another few years to catch on in Germany…
So is it possible then that Ryan’s parents could sue Amber out of the comic?
As in, no money for school means no school.
Seems incredibly unlikely, to be honest. They don’t even have a case.
They don’t need to have much of one. Just enough of one to keep the case going for a few months until Amber’s mom suffocates under legal fees.
I’d say no, but only because then Amber wouldn’t be in the comic anymore, and I seriously doubt Willis would go that far.
…right?
Word of Willis is that he put Amazi-Girl in the comic so that he could have an outlet for his desire to occasionally draw action sequences. So yeah, Amber’s not going anywhere.
Blaine is legally required to pay her tuition, and probably a certain amount of maintenance until she’s out of school. But he’s almost certainly not required to pay legal bills. So, whatever else happens, it won’t affect her ability to pay for school – emotional effects having an affect on her ability to attend school is a different thing, but that’s likely something that will be shown on panel.
Yes, can confirm. I have had several family members who have done such. All with cakes. I have also seen friend-of-a-friend pictures of their own reveals of non-cake methods.
I feel like this was a reply to something else.
Aha! Finally, Joyce will have to go forth and come out about what he did publicly, to discredit the lawsuit.
I mean, hopefully not, since that would be an awful situation to put her in and probably wouldn’t actually have that much of an effect.
I don’t see how that would help in a civil case that is likely for excessive force. Or how coming out publicly would discredit it since that has nothing to do with the facts of the case. Unless I am seriously missing something when it comes to American law.
Everyone’s seriously missing something when it comes to American law. Even the people who work in the legal system. Sometimes especially them.
Seems to me that might actually make things worse for Amber. If not-Ryan’s lawyers can show that she knew about Joyce before the attack, they could spin it as motivating her to use greater force than necessary (as revenge for her friend).
He did tell her and Dorothy that he knew that the blond girl lived in the dorm and he was gonna carve up her face. Pretty sure that would seal the deal on that stabbing him to make him unable to hurt anyone wouldn’t be excessive, if Joyce is pulled into all of this
and ‘ryan’s’ parents are suing? hahahahahahaha
they shoulda got the knife too >:C
Yeah, they really missed out on that one.
My reactions to the last panel in order:
1. Oh, Richard’s helping financially.
2. Oh fuck, Richard’s helping financially.
3. I swear if Richard tries to get away with some shut because he’s helping financially, he better get his face carved off with a knife and shoved down his throat!
“get away with some shut?”
Over time I imagine it will become culturally normal to assume typos and auto-correct, reading the most likely word
That’s pretty much what my back brain does anyway most of the time.
Sucks when I’m trying to proof-read.
I hate my phone’s autocorrect sometimes.
Naturally, despite the fact that Ryan came at Amber with a knife with the intent to maim her, Dorothy and Joyce, his family are sure she used ‘excessive force’ on their ‘sweet, innocent little boy’.
You know what, I’m actually going to give Richard a lot of credit here. Yesterday, I thought he had driven down with Stacey. But apparently she came yesterday and then couldn’t figure out what to do. And it’s a school day, which means it’s a work day.
Which means that, on a few hours’ notice, Richard rescheduled his appointments, got clothes, drove to another city and went in to speak with Amber, because he knew that Stacey didn’t know what to do and wanted to help. That’s actually… real. That is substantially inconveniencing himself for a problem that a lot of people (not good people, but we’re at a low bar here) would have dismissed as Stacey being silly or just needing to toughen up.
And when he did, what he confronted Amber with was how the situation was affecting Stacey.
Maybe Richard is actually learning something.
It’s Sunday. It was explicitly stated to be Saturday at the beginning of the last storyline, which was yesterday.
IIUC Joe’s refusal to be a real person or to treat women as real people comes from seeing how badly his father has hurt them. It’s possible that Dr Dick is a lovely partner – other than a serial “inability” to stay monogamous or to be honest about that.
If Joe presents himself as a 2D character who views women in terms of physical and sexual attributes only but is open and upfront about it then (a) nobody will take him seriously so he can’t hurt anybody; (b) he doesn’t need to worry about the fact that he’s just like Dad and Dad can’t exercise any self restraint around teh womenz so clearly he couldn’t even if he tried; (c) he gets to be da MAN and do manly things without worrying about hurting other people coz Joe is actually a lot less of a jerk than he thinks he is, deep down.
(Does that make sense? The fact that Richard is apparently going out of his way to do nice supportive things for Stacy doesn’t necessarily negate him being the sort of role model who resulted in Joe “not like that”ing to an online “do” list.)
I mean, I hope I’m wrong because Stacy has been through enough damaging relationship awfulness already – but I’m not convinced. The biggest counter-argument that I can see to this is the language Richard uses when talking to Joe – acting like “commitment”, “relationship” etc aren’t even in his vocabulary. But that could be a “men don’t talk about feels” [in his mind] thing, how he’s used to relating to Joe specifically (“I’m young, cool and hip and put it about all over town! Emulate me!”) – OR a sign that him and Stacy are somewhere significantly outside his standard operating procedures. But given he committed to Joe’s mum enough to marry her that seems less likely than him having a strong history of acting the part of the loving, committed partner until either the infidelity/infidelities come out or he emotionally checks out and moves on to the next pretty lady.
It’s Sunday, as Tarmaniel said – thus all the church stuff a little bit back.
Stacy brought Amber back down yesterday and stayed on. I didn’t realize it at the time, but we saw her at the bar after Leslie’s date, which was an obvious clue she was staying in town, worried about Amber.
I’d guess she called Richard for emotional support when Amber stopped responding to her texts. Possibly drunk at the time. Then he came down last night or this morning. Still good, but not quite so extreme.
Ohhh, I thought it was now Monday. My bad.
So for any of you wondering how Amber got that way, now you know
Hm? Are you refering to Stacy? Because if yes, I don’t see what you’re getting at.
Well, think about it. The closest thing Amber had to a positive role model growing up was almost as badly adjusted as she is, and while well-meaning, clearly does not have a firm grasp on how to provide emotional support.
I’m…. not entirely sure how the legalities of this work.
Amber is legally an adult, and as I understand the law (which is a bit, but I’m far from an expert) I don’t see how Stacy can be sued for Amber’s actions.
Oh, yes, there are ways that a parent can incur liability for certain actions. Loan your car to your kid and if they get into an accident, it’s your car so you can be sued. Give booze to your kids and they give it to someone underage at a party who then gets injured from being drunk, and you can be sued because it’s your booze. But that’s not the parental connection at work — that potential liability’s true of anyone, parent or not.
Yes, AMBER could be sued. There probably wouldn’t be a winning case… except for disparities in qualities of lawyers and some very legally-unwise public statements of her own evil nature that she’s been making over the past 24 hours. Thing is, Amber doesn’t have much that’s worth suing for. A laptop and a 3DS, some transformers, some clothes, and some school supplies. All of which probably have terrible resale value after so much use. The big question mark is whether the funds for college are in Amber’s name, and given that Blaine said he was the one paying for it, probably not.
So, yes, Amber could be sued. But that would likely involve WALKING UP TO HER AND PUTTING THE SUMMONS IN HER HAND. There are other options, like leaving it with a roommate, but I don’t see Dina forgetting to mention something like that. And yes, leaving it with a relative is plausible… but given how much easier it is to find Amber than to find Stacy, given what Ryan and his family and their lawyer(s) would be known about the two, it seems especially strange that it’s Stacy who knows about the lawsuit first. Maybe Amber listed her permanent address with her mom on the police reports rather than campus residence… but that’s exactly the sort of information that police like to black out when the rest of the report is made public. Given how easy it would be to deliver a complaint and summons to Amber through the university, compared to backtracking through her family, this would be a very silly way to go about suing Amber.
But suing Stacy? There’s no winning case there. None at all. That’s the sort of thing that can be dismissed easi-…
……
…. wait. If someone makes the case that Stacy is liable for not intervening in Blaine’s abusive rearing of Amber and subsequently turning her into a ticking time bomb with the result of…
….
….
…. eh, still not proximate cause and precedent would be against them. Nope, I don’t see how Stacy is getting sued here.
(And yes, the lawsuit is a shitty thing to do, but that’s a different discussion and Cerb’s already covered everything I have to say about that plus stuff I didn’t know, so I won’t touch that. Though I’ll note that if Ryan’s maintaining his innocence to his family, and they believe him because OF COURSE he’s had a lifetime of practice lying to them, and THEY’RE the ones suing for medical costs, battery, and other stuff, then it’s a bit less of a deliberate-abuse thing. It becomes a bit sympathetic, in a “pity the poor deceived parents, they’re hurt and they know not the injustice they’re doing” sort of way.)
Maybe Amber is 17?
Willis has drawn nsfw art of Amber. I doubt she’s under 18.
By “suing us” I’m positive Amber is the one being sued, but Stacy, being her mother, counts them as a family unit, especially as Amber has no income of her own.
And it’s possible they haven’t been served, but Stacy thinks it’s a likely outcome for the future, and is figuring it into her plans.
Any lawsuit plot in this strip will require considerable artistic license. Courts move glacially slow by real world standards, in this strip nothing would ever happen.
Ryan was stabbed four days ago, and two of those days are the weekend. There’s no way a lawsuit would have already been filed in real life.
It depends on the scale of the suit and how complex the arguments presented by both sides’ lawyers. A time-scale of months, in-universe, is plausible if on the short side.
Well, realistically Amber would be completely SOL. Ryan knows Amber is AG and as a result knows Amber has committed numerous serious crimes. All Ryan has to do is threaten her with an under-oath deposition and she’s basically screwed. She could always take the 5th and refuse to answer but in a civil case refusing to answer questions very much can be used against you. From there even a minimally competent investigator would be able to figure out it was her that hospitalized Blaine, and now she’s facing serious prison time.
Ryan may know that Amber is AG, but I don’t think he has any evidence. Worst case is that by revealing her secret, he may prevent her from doing her Amazi-thing again, but since she’s already shown she can hide her costume from the police effectively, its likely that the cops would at most only give Ryan’s claims a cursory investigation and dismiss them as a criminal trying to deflect attention from his own crimes.
(Yes, that scenario would require Amber to lie about her secret identity, but that’s probably wouldn’t be that difficult.)
Not really. Blaine wanted that fight (had in front of many people, and probably cameras, told her to try to punch him), and had threatened Danny (to Amber).
Ryan has no power to expose her, no evidence, and he’s in a criminal trial for attacking 2 unarmed girls with a knife. He is powerless now.
By facing serious prison time do you mean it is likely to happen or it will come close enough to happening to be uncomfortable. Ryan fits Blane’s description of her better than Amber. If he tells the police that he lied about what happened and Amber beat him up he risks Amber saying he left out the part about kidnapping her boyfriend and he made a false police report, and Danny will back her up, and she has neuteral character witnesses who can say her story seems more likely given what they saw. Also people might be weary about coming out of the woodwork as criminals which she might have went over the top with, considering that she is not a witness to the crime.
Blaine didn’t kidnap anyone. He didn’t even threaten Danny, let alone use any kind of actual force. Lying to someone isn’t kidnapping. Amber had absolutely no justification for attacking him there, previous abuse doesn’t justify it legally. It would not take long for a lawyer to figure out Amber was the one who beat up Blaine. Hell, Dorothy figured it out in a couple of days and she did it with less information than an investigator would have.
I’m not sure if kidnapping was the absolutely correct term but his aggressively grabbing Danny and covering his mouth when Amazigirl told Danny that he was being used as leverage was definitely counts as actual force. And he might not have used incriminating words on the phone but he definitely was giving Amber the message I have your boyfriend so you better do what I say.
OTOH, threats could have been made and they could have made their intention to sue clear, even if the paperwork hasn’t gone through yet.
As for AG, Ryan thinks she’s AG, but has no evidence. Amber could just lie. (And hide the costume.)
The Police’ve already done a customary search of her dorm room and didn’t find anything that could connect Amber to Amazi-Girl, so all Ryan has for proof tha Amber=AG is that they’re both short, stout brunettes that kicked his butt (so for that matter is Joyce – Hmmm…).
You’re being too literal.
Amber is an adult, but she obviously can’t afford a lawyer. Therefore her mother is paying for her legal defense. Since Amber is named in the suit and her mother is paying the lawyer, “they” are effectively getting sued.
This.
Plus, it’s an American thing. Since most people who aren’t independently wealthy can’t afford a lawyer independently, a person in the immediate family being sued is frequently seen as “we’re being sued” especially by the parents, especially if the one being sued is in their late teens, early twenties.
Okay then, but how is it Stacy knows this and Amber doesn’t? If it’s just Amber being sued, shouldn’t she have gotten the paperwork shoved into her hands rather than Stacy?
Who’s to say she doesn’t?
Amber was at home with her mother the past four days. There’s no reason to assume that 1) she doesn’t know they’re being sued and 2) that they wouldn’t have “shoved” the lawsuit directly into Amber’s hands because she was at home
Huh. I guess I was reading Amber’s face on the last panel as being surprised about the lawsuit.
I suck at faces.
Because of course that Ryan arsehat has dirt-rich parents.
Worse, parents who refuse to believe that their angelic baby boy could do the horrible things that those slutty college girls accuse him of doing. This is going to end up with an ‘affluenza’ issue, I’m sure of it.
Thing is, they *could* be literally unable to believe that he did what he did.
People wear a lot of different masks. Perhaps he is the “good son” for them.
Yeah, I can totally see him as the Eddie Haskell type
There are a lot of people here forming opinions of characters we’ve never seen or heard from, based solely on a single sentence from a third party. The fan base around here could form an Olympic-level ‘Conclusion Jumping’ squad.
Ooh! I love this bit. Next do “I’m morally superior because I alone am rational and unfeeling”
That Guy’s late to the party this time, I see, but still managed to show up.
This is a webcomic, and the Amber / Joe / Richard / Stacy scene has taken 8 strips over some two weeks, and if it were filmed, might last fifteen minutes.
Chop up and spread a story across this much time and it reminds me of one of those lit classes where a few pages of a novel are parsed and discussed to a fare-thee-well.
(Of course, I always liked that kind of lit class, unless it was about Henry James.)
I’m inclined to agree. For all we know, “Ryan” could have very well twisted the narrative so he was the victim. Perhaps the parents only know him as the “good boy” and have no reason to doubt his version.
We also have no idea what the official stance on this incident is, or what information has been relayed to the parents.
I mean, I fully expect them to be utter douche bags, but at this point there is no way to be sure.
I’m guessing he did. And to be fair most functional parents don’t want to believe their child is that bad.
First pretend that he never drugged Joyce. Specifically that everything happened except the drug being in the pop. Also pretend that she refused to go to the bathroom alone. This explains the scar as some paranoid chick who heard stories felt a little woozy and attacked him out of nowhere.
This makes Amazigirl posting about him sound unjustified and his attempts to protect his name sound fair.
Second pretend it was Ambers knife and he just wanted to explain what happened. Or if that’s not possible that he wasn’t really going to attack them he was just making some idiotic point which in retrospect was a dumb idea he just couldn’t live with the lies they were telling.
Yes, the parents of the now-known rapist, who now know he is a rapist, and who it has been established was caught on camera being the aggressor in the incident that landed him in the hospital, suing the college student that their son was presumably trying to murder, are clearly just misunderstood.
I may to have to go back and check what info on the assault is actually publically available. But the video footage only proves the assault, no rapes.
Irregardless, the cat’s out of the bag.
IRREGARDLESS IS NOT A WORD!!!!
THAT AIN’T TRUE!!!!!!!!!!
MADNESS! O_o
Thanks.
And besides, their son is in the hospital. The last thing I expect from them at this point is reasonable action.
If my son were in the hospital because he tried to kill someone to cool the trail on his rape spree, I wouldn’t start spending money hiring lawyers for a lawsuit against the would-be victim for a lawsuit we can’t win unless I felt his actions were morally justified, in which case I would be a monster.
At this point the only public thing regarding his rape spree is Amber’s post. They assault may well have been a revenge for that. The only chance for the rapes to actually become public knowledge is for the victims, e. g. Joye, to step forward.
The cast knows about the rapes from Dorothy, unless I’m forgetting something.
Three girls HAVE come forward, and Joyce may have as well (she said three OTHER girls came forward).
Right, I forgot that. So we know they’re terrible people after all.
I’m sorry for wasting everybody’s time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<reference href="TFS Alexander Anderson">I forgive you.</reference>
Nah, it happens. People forget stuff. Lord knows I trip over stuff like that. Nothing to worry about.
Chances are the more we learn about them the more we will hate them. Other than that remark about his father seeing what’s put online we don’t know they are not good people in denile. Honestly I’m expecting them to be doing this more to protect there reputation then Ryan.
If you aren’t reading a post by Ana Chronastic or Cerberus just assume it’s someone whose using hyperbole. I could be totally wrong, but it’s easier to just assume most people aren’t that extreme in their real thoughts. If you read the comments during pretty much any story line you will find a lot of people going over the top.
But of course rich politically-connected parents of rapist kid are suing the someone who fought back
Good to see Stacy isn’t so innocent and naïve that she’s only going into this relationship because she has a crush on Richard.
What’s saddest is she’s had to spend most of her life thinking about how to be practical, especially in her love life.
Figuring out how much abuse to take so as to try and keep Amber as safe as possible, figuring out how to safely leave and hide so Blaine didn’t come after them, likely avoiding any and all dating until Amber was 18 so as not to accidentally let another Blaine back into their lives, and even know letting the reality of her daughter’s situation color how she approaches her current relationship.
It makes me sad that she hasn’t been able to just jump into a relationship without these other considerations in a very very long time.
Speaking of Stacy’s relationship with Richard, I’m really curious what your thoughts are on the last few comics portrayal of Richard as… considerably less terrible than people were previously expecting, or if he’s showing some red flags that I’m maybe not noticing.
Ewwww… this was my first post since the gravatars got changed a while back and now I’m Danny. I miss being Sarah, her attitude reflected my own.
In my opinion, he’s shown some red flag behavior still and some standard patriarchal crap, which is about to be expected.
From what we’ve seen he’s a creeper, a sexual predator, and a cheater, but not a physical abuser or someone who doesn’t still want to have fulfilling long-term relationships, even if he can’t handle them in a remotely healthy manner.
You can’t help wonder how many women, IRL, have no choice but to effectively mortgage themselves to someone in order to protect their children from destitution.
Given that this lawsuit is days-old at most, and she’s been seeing Richard for weeks or months, I doubt it’s among the reasons she went into the relationship.
I mean…Richard hasn’t given us any reason to think he doesn’t genuinely like Stacy, barring the skeevyness he originally showed us.
He also hasn’t given us any reason to think he’s emotionally mature enough to handle an actual relationship, but let’s not count our apocalypse chickens before they hatch.
Exactly.
1) Amber’s mom is a good mom. Good parents are thin on the ground in this strip, I think that’s notable.
2) What are boundaires? 🙂
Well, he’s not the best, but I’m pretty sure he’s at least less of a monster than Amber’s dad.
Also, I think this is the first time Stacy has ever said “fuck” in any universe. The F-Bomb list confirms that it’s the first time in DoA, but I’m pretty sure she never dropped one in Shortpacked! either. Didn’t ever expect her to.
The most monstrous thing is the fact that Amber’s family is being sued for Amber fighting that murderous boy.
It’s still a step above Amber’s (and Stacy’s) previous situation.
Ugh, of course the rapey fuckwit’s parents are also fuckwits.
Bleh. I keep forgetting it was Amber that beat Ryan down. I keep thinking it was Amazi-Girl for some reason.