“My dental hygienist is cute. Every time I visit, I eat a whole package of Oreo cookies while waiting in the lobby. Sometimes she has to cancel the rest of the afternoon’s appointments.”
And I was thinking, “She’s too young to be a dentist,” but apparently four years of dental school on top of a bachelor’s degree is enough for a DDS?
It still requires serious suspension of disbelief to go along with the idea that she has her own practice. And even more to accept the idea that she would have the time, during office hours, to go shopping for office supplies.
I’ve been to places where there are multiple dentists sharing the space, each with their own office. It’s not uncommon, at least in my corner of the Midwest.
I had somehow forgotten it being Sunday that, despite the fact that this is literally happening during the Strange Communion Freakout Incident. So obviously, the fact that she is using her own personal time to do office shopping strengthens the possibility that it is indeed her own dental practice.
I should get some sleep before I jump to even stupider conclusions.
Not only are most stores open on Sunday in America, the recent move is to open stores on holidays when they used to always close, like Thanksgiving. Only on Christmas Day is American commerce at mostly full stop. Much different from Sundays in the South when I grew up, when you would seldom find anything open but the firehouse. And those guys never let me join their pool game.
Here in the West Coast, some types of stores are opened even on Christmas Day. Grocery stores, for instance. They pay extra to the employees working, have minimal staff and usually close early, but at least a few are open in most cities. And should you burn your dinner into something undigestable, Chinese restaurants are a good bet for being open. Just be prepared to wait for a long time to get a table.
Anna and Mindy have been roommates for ten years, implying 10+ years out of high school. I’d say 2 years after an 8-year certification is long enough to start a practice, and if it’s new, that could explain why her supplier isn’t a good one.
One of the reasons dental health in America is so poor compared to other similar nations is because there are such long waiting lists for procedures like fillings and root canals–sometimes several months! And the wait is even longer if a patient needs to attend a free or sliding-scale-fee dental clinic due to the expense.
So, an ambitious young dentist doesn’t actually have a ton of competition, and plenty of willing patients, if she wants to open her own clinic, even if she’s straight out of school. A dentist could also become so in as little as six years, if her undergraduate degree is in pre-med or a pre-dental technical program. If Anna had her sights set on being a dentist straight out of high school (age 18), and jumped straight into her own practice, she could be as young as 25 or 26.
I’m guessing she’s 28, though, although it’s a bit hard to tell with this art style.
In Europe you’d be right. It is a ton of money to open a practice so you only get to have one before midlife crisis strucks if your parents are rich or you have suspicious connections
FWIW, reality is often hard to believe because we’re actually fairly under-exposed to it due to the sheer quantity of reality and the tiny sliver of actual experience we actually get. It’s why ICT stuff like books and censuses and bureaus of labor statistics are helpful.
*jaw drops*
So I guess the lesson is, if you want fast dental service, drive up to Canada. 😛 and our dollar is in the toilet again so it’s extra cheap for Americans!
So does Becky still get points for this? I mean, she is still responsible for it, but it didn’t go exactly as she intended.
Eh, I’ll give it to her. She’s awesome, but still has a ways to go before she gets close to Dina in the “Best Character Ever” ranking. Then they can be “Best Couple Ever”, taking the title from Sarah and Other Jacob.
“Maybe you’ll marry, maybe you won’t. Maybe you’ll have children, maybe you won’t. Maybe you’ll divorce at 40, maybe you’ll dance the funky chicken on your 75th wedding anniversary. Whatever you do, don’t congratulate yourself too much, or berate yourself either. Your choices are half chance. So are everybody else’s.” –Mary Schmich, “Advice, like youth, probably just wasted on the young”
I mean… I don’t think this will go well, and it’s not Becky’s fault that Leslie keeps falling into this trap of abusive relationships, so… no points for Becky, maybe some negative points for Leslie…
It’s a kind of smile. My face does that too; when the default shape of your mouth is kind of frowny-looking, a small smile barely recognizable as such.
Well that’s nice. At the very least this is the first strip Anna’s gone by without raising any red flags on us.
That being said, that last bit might raise some eyebrows. I found it kind of charming, really, at least by Anna’s normal standards as a complete jackass. I might be wrong though, if it is worse someone explain
Okay, how? She’s agreeing with Leslie on the God thing, and then agreeing to go get beverages with her. Yes, she’s been very rude in past strips, not gonna contest that for a moment, but… Is this really what puts her over the top for you?
How? Mary is an openly hateful bigot who blackmailed another girl to the verge of suicide. Anna is rude with slight negging behavior. What is the comparison here?
Apparently dentists have the highest suicide rate for people currently in their professions.
This has nothing to do with Anna specifically, just something I heard at a recent training.
Though the instructor did point out how people often don’t like going to the dentist or are unhappy when they see them. I wonder how many non-Mindy, Leslie people are happy to see Anna.
At least in the areas I’ve lived in, there’s an idea that you only go to the dentist if a tooth is literally rotting in your head, preferably with some degree of infection and bleeding. Once you get there, they of course have to break out the needles, drills, pins, and other fun tools for jabbing and yanking.
oh dear. 🙁 around here, insurance will usually pay for a checkup every 6/9/12 months, and they’re only something like $100-150 anyways. A friend of mine skipped checkups for several years, and ended up needing like $5k of work done.
I really wish Canada would cover dental checkups in the same way as prescriptions and chiropractors and stuff. :/
Yeah, here it’s pretty common for insurance not to cover it. I think I may have had insurance that covered dental checkups for a while in my childhood, but I’m not really sure.
Also, for many $100-150 just…doesn’t seem very much like an “only.” Long-term it’s often beneficial, but that’s kind of a luxury.
yeah, that’s why I wish the government would cover it, for the people who can’t just casually set aside $150/year. (and the people who can afford that are the most likely to already have insurance anyways)
I once had a (shallow, thankfully) cavity drilled out without anaesthetic because the single-surface filling cost me twenty bucks, and the shot would have cost another twenty bucks (this was in the early Nineties in Canada) and I only had twenty bucks.
The dentist figured it was shallow enough that he could drill it out without hitting the root and hurting me. As it ended up, I did get one hell of a twinge, but only as he was finishing that part so he didn’t have to keep at it after that.
TL;DR: Apparently simple dental work was much cheaper twenty years ago, holy cow! And also sometimes even twenty bucks means you don’t get to eat for the next week. Or make rent, or whatever.
Happily kids are covered, at least (at least for some stuff). But yeah, it ought to have full coverage same as other medical care; ridiculous to separate oral health from all other care.
Jeez, I have to force myself to go to the dentist, even for routine checkups. As soon as I open the door and get hit with that alcohol and clove smell, every neuron in my brain starts screaming “NOPENOPENOPEnononononoNOOOOOOOPE”… The part where they probe for cavities is the worst, if only for the anticipation..
I had two cavities filled without any novocaine, mostly due to a crippling fear of needles. (Neither hit the pulp yet so they weren’t hurting.) I still had to go to a physician for a one-dose prescription of diazepam to go through with it. The top molar wasn’t bad, but the one in my jaw was in worse shape so the drill was grabbing and I jumped and bit the drill a little. My dentist is pretty good and pulled away as fast as I jumped, so the extra damage was minimal, but just thinking about it made me wince for over a year afterward. My dental plan covered most of the cost, thankfully.
If you have the option, get dental insurance. Seriously, even if it pays for nothing but preventive visits, it’s worth saving yourself the long term pain.
This here is my fear, for any medical practise.
Insurance will only cover so much, and the rest comes out of pocket. If you’re LUCKY, you’ll be told how much BEFORE they get to work.
Doctors (and dentists) are the equivalent of natural disasters: You may have survived the ordeal, but you’re still fucked.
I’m not afraid of it, but I do dislike it. Bad things that have happened to me at the dentist:
*freezing starts to wear off before the appointment ends
*asshole dentist insists on doing the freezing too fast, causing immense pain and then gets mad at me for making noise and says mean things until I cry (I was in my early 20’s iirc)
*I discover that earplugs amplify sound inside the mouth, while my migraine is making sound extremely painful, and for some reason didn’t try taking them out (I actually had full derealization for an hour or two after that appointment)
*hygenist is in a hurry while flossing my teeth and it hurts a lot (actually that can happen even if they’re careful because my teeth are so tightly packed with several jagged filling-edges)
*even with the nicest dentist, normal freezing is a painful and deeply uncomfortable process. I’m not keen on needles and having them inject things always hurts for some reason. having to keep my mouth still makes it harder to cope, too.
*as a kid, there was always the shaming for not properly taking care of my teeth. sure it was true but it didn’t actually help me change – it wasn’t until I started taking my depression seriously that I had the strength to work on my teeth issues.
there are plenty of other uncomfortable things about having someone work on stuff in my mouth, but those were the most memorable parts.
I’m sorry you had to experience such bs at the dentist! :/
I think many people are afraid of the dentist in the same way my cat is afraid of a veterinarian. Because most go to the dentist if something is wrong: tooth ache (up to the possible need of root canal treatment or the need for pulling a tooth), caries, gingivitis etc. So people mostly experience a dentist appointment with pain or having problems. In my mind, it’s pretty similar to some people who actively avoid going to the doctor for minor-ish problems (e.g. a cough), until they feel really bad (or had the cough for over a month) – and some would even need to be dragged their because they just hate being examined.
As a kid I also hated the dentist (simply because it’s scary), but as I grew older with much more teeth problems, I kinda got accustomed to it. Also because my teeth are pretty bad cavity-wise, not because I eat just sugar stuff or don’t brush them, but because bad teeth or problem-teeth kinda run in the family. And I’ve got it especially bad because as with you, my teeth nearly all had a cavity at some point because they are so tightly packed. Was also the reason that as soon as my wisdom teeth started showing themselves I had to get all of them removed as there was no space for them to come up.
Anyways, enough rambling: as a future tip, try not earplugs but listening to music for longer appointments! I did that as my wisdom teeth were removed (mostly listening to Imagine Dragons – “Bleeding out” because some part of my brain found it immensely comforting to focus on the lyrics)
Some of my dentists have had TVs mounted over the chairs and they give you headphones and the remote and that makes it far, far easier!!
One dentist I had was great for injections; she’d put a topical anaesthetic on first, and then use the finest needle she could and just creep it in a tiny bit (still within the range of the topical stuff), inject a little freezing, give it a sec to take effect, creep it a little further in, inject a bit more freezing, etc etc. It was great; it still wasn’t pleasant; but to be honest, it was more me bracing expecting pain thanks to my childhood dentist than actually it hurting; I’ve had more pain and trauma eating Corn Flakes lol. She was really careful and super nice.
My childhood dentist, OTOH, was absolutely awful with needles. His method was to get it over and done with as fast as possible, so he’d just fucking stab it in there. Especially when he was doing one in the roof of my mouth it always felt like he was going to hit the bone (although he never did). The only reason I didn’t mind going to the dentist as a kid was that I kind of liked the rest of it (I think I liked the attention ha ha) and also he had comics in his waiting room. They were only Richie Rich’s; but it was still pretty much my only chance to read any comics at all growing up so going to the dentist was a treat. 😀 Wasn’t until I was a teen that I found a rack of actual, like, Batman comics in a corner of my local book store.
I mean, I assume comics were for sale somewhere in town; but I wasn’t aware of them.
Ah that’s nice too – though I personally just prefer to close my eyes, as without my glasses I also wouldn’t be able to see much (and with all the water spraying around, and seeing the dentist picking up instruments would creep me out more than actually experiencing them working on my teeth. But I’ve also had the same dentist past 8-10 years, so it might also be that I simply trust her not to eff up stuff.
That’s a really careful and nice dentist you had! Mine (the one mentioned above)l always tells me when she’s going to prick me with the needle and if I’m ever feeling any hurt or something (e.g. needing to cough) during her working I just have to raise my hand and she immediately stops and asks what I need. I’ve kinda grow accustomed to the needles now, so I don’t mind them as much as I used to (also because I once had so many appointments in such a short period of time that it just became an “eh, it’s alright, it just hurts a little”-kinda situation for me. I’m more uncomfortable afterwards when my lips or part of my tongue are still numb). 🙂
Ouch, sounds awful (but the gum is especially bad overall for needles as it always hurts being pricked in there). But the rest sounds awesome, especially the comics 😀 – we always got small sweet treats from the dentist, if we heartily promised to continue to always brush our teeth in the morning and evening.
Ah, I know that feeling. It took me years after watching my first anime to even realise that there are mangas out there – and that you could buy them(well, to be fair, I saw the first as I was like 8, so I wouldn’t even have had the money to buy them), and once I started buying them, for the first 2-3 years I just bought veeeery short series or one shots. And now I still have many, but I kinda grew out of collecting them (also because most series that are translated aren’t that interesting to me any more). There are like only 4-6 I’d still need to complete, and one of them I’ll probably finish at the age of 50, because new volumes take 2+ years to come out (“Berserk” by Kentaro Miura)
music wasn’t an option for 2-3 years there, the migraine was that bad.
anyways, wow, you remember your wisdom teeth being removed? I got the memory-loss drugs for that. didn’t even know the appointment was over until they told me. 🙂 I was talking to someone recently who didn’t even remember the ride home.
and yeah, english teeth genes suck 😛 (and the dentists in england were talking about pulling a tooth to make space, but that didn’t happen because we moved to Canada.) although it probably didn’t help that when I was little my parents rewarded me for brushing my teeth with apple slices. and as a teenager I’d grab a glass of orange juice after brushing to stop myself from throwing up (yes it was that unpleasant for me)
I had the same thing with comics, but it was calvin & hobbes books, at the chiropractor. 🙂 my parents would occasionally buy me a grocery store comic book, but I’d often finish it on the way home. I somehow didn’t find out superhero comics existed.
Oh, yeah that’s bad 🙁 (I can’t imagine having migraine during a dentist appointment – it’s already bad enough on its own!)
Yeah – mostly because I was fully awake during the operation XD I just received local anaesthesia for it, first for the right side (the operation lasted about half an hour, maybe a bit longer) and about two weeks later for the left side. That one took longer because some nerve was directly beside one tooth, and the anaesthesia wore a bit off in between, so I had to sign the dentist to give me another shot, and then he had to wait for it growing numb again. But all in all, the worst part was just the sensation of being drilled into the skull (which didn’t happen, it just felt like that), and afterwards the swollen cheeks and that I couldn’t really chew anything for a few days.
English…or like, another part of Europe XD
Oh my, yeah that sounds that it didn’t help – don’t eat stuff after brushing! (at least not immediately) – though I can kinda understand the orange juice thin :/. For me it’s really genes. My sister has had two ‘adult’ teeth plucked, because they were so damaged on the inside, even though her teeth look much healthier than mine.
🙂
Aww Calvin & Hobbes, we never really got that over here (non-English speaking country), just Garfield.
I sometimes worry when I go to the dentist for non-cleaning appointments, because sometimes my hygienist wants to start cleaning my teeth and save us the extra appointment. I have to remind her I have a heart condition that requires me to have antibiotics before any cleanings, lest bacteria get in my bloodstream or go to my heart. That really seems like the kind of thing that would be front and centre of someone’s file (which the look over at the start of every appointment) but she’s forgotten it more than once and I’ve had to be like ‘No, wait, we can’t do that today, I haven’t had any meds’.
My last dentist but one told me that that is no longer true. Apparently the occupation with the highest suicide rate in Australia is now veterinarian.
I did a web search and found a report from the CDC on suicide rates in the USA by occupation. The occupational groups are lumped together a bit, and maybe specific occupations differs significantly from their groups. Anyway, the occupational group with the highest rate of suicide in the USA seems to be “Agriculture, Forestry, and Fishery”.
Interesting. The guy doing the training has been doing it a long time, so I wondered whether some of his information might be out of date. I also wonder about if that report was differentiating between those currently employed and those who were retired and such.
Agriculture, forestry and fishery…yeah, I can see those jobs being very depressing in today’s climate.
“Oh boy, looks like climate change and human activity has turned this area into a barren, lifeless wasteland. Time to move on to the next piece of fertile area and ruin that too.”
This makes me laugh because my Aunt has exactly the same job title as Anna, but guzzles coffee like crazy, along with pretty much every other thing dentists are supposed to tell you not to do.
A man needs to get an emergency crown replacement, but discovers that there are only two dentists in the small town he’s in. He visits the first dentist, who has stained, chipped teeth, and his waiting room only has a few people in it. Visits the second dentist, who has a perfect, clean smile, and a line of patients out the door.
The man thinks for a moment, and then heads back to the first dentist. His reasoning is twofold:
1) The first dentist waiting room is empty because he takes care of his patients quickly and professionally, unlike the second one.
2) In a town with only two dentists, the first dentist must go to the second dentist for dental work, and the second dentist must go to the first. Clearly, the first dentist does better work.
Did Anna show the most interest in Leslie she has so far when the latter was snarky just now? I can sort of sympathise with that – niceness is nice, but you need a bit more (humour? sass?
wit?) to be attractive.
Like I said earlier… worst taste in mates…. “Dumbing of Age” for a reason. (These two, when Leslie crushed on Robin, Marcie Liking Malaya, Mike and Pretty much anyone, Roz and Joe (granted that was a one night stand, but the thought of these two on a permanent basis is… horrifying…), the saddest though, Joyce and any guy she likes (each times does not end well), Mary and her boyfriend, do I hear 8?
To the comic’s credit they do have a couple decent couples. I never was a fan of Dorothy and Walky, but they seem to be what each other need, and of course the one good relationship Becky and Dina.
Leslie, come on, you’re a college professor. You have power and authority, you don’t need to play the meek act. Don’t let yourself be bossed around by this poser. If you’re gonna date her, have it on your terms. Not hers.
I mean, while she may consciously or objectively know better…so do many victims of abuse. What this makes me wonder is more about what kinds of behaviors she learned in her home environment, as, while it may have ultimately rejected her, that doesn’t mean she didn’t internalize some of its message.
Definitely, we all pick up these kinds of learned behaviors and reactions as part of our childhood. It sometimes seems impossible to ever rise above it. But we still have to try.
We don’t actually know. But since I’ve already made one stupid assumption tonight, why not double down?
At any sufficiently large university, tenured and tenure-track rarely teach freshman classes. (And then only if they really, really, want to.)
IU-Bloomington is a top-tier research university. Leslie is relatively young, and teaching a class full of freshmen. So I’m going with adjunct faculty (i.e. non-tenured).
Later in the day, they get to the cafe, order their drinks, and start talking. Within minutes, the other customers are treated to Anna and Leslie lightly banging on the table, chanting “God is dead! God is dead! God is dead!” at a reasonable volume until their drinks arrive.
Not calling out any character here, I notice that I dislike Mike and Anna, but love Malaya and Carla. But trying to interrogate that beyond gut feeling, I can’t quite put my finger on why I would like Anna less than Malaya, other than baked in goodwill from Shortpacked-Malaya. Shrug emoji!
Malaya’s insults are a mix of insightful and/or naively misinformed. Carla’s abrasive attitude is one half independence and one half defense and one half high self-esteem. (There’s some overlap, that’s why it’s more than 2 halves.)
Meanwhile, Mike as actively, intentionally sadistic.
Anna is…. well, it’s POSSIBLE she just says whatever pops into her head and doesn’t realize how people might feel bad because of it. But all of this feels a bit like negging.
A couple of months ago I took a flight, and the woman sitting beside me awas a dentist on her way to a conference. I noticed that she took her coffee black, and asked whether it was a myth that black coffee stains ones teeth. (I take my coffee with milk to reduce the staining.) She assured me that black coffee does stain teeth.
“So what do you do?”, I asked.
“I go to a dentist”, she said, “and get them cleaned.”
I find that coffee with cream also stains my teeth, and rather more badly than the tea I also drink (I can differentiate from not having had any coffee for a long time).
But I also find that stain-removing toothpastes are a thing. 😛
It’s hard to find this charming (even though it kind of is) after what a jerk Anna has been so far.
Maybe she just has a tough time letting people in, but still…
I hope this doesn’t turn into Leslie having a bunch of self-esteem problems.
I don’t get why everyone is so down on Anna. She said a few blunt things, but in my world, blunt is good. Yes, your nose is big, but that doesn’t mean I don’t like it. A little bit of sass is good, and we’ve hardly seen Anna in enough strips to really make a judgement of her character–just her speech patterns.
her dialogue is based on the original Mike. it’s packed full of red flags for potential abuse; iirc Cerberus explained several on yesterday’s comic.
I mean, I’m still tired of comments that diss a character without adding anything meaningful to the conversation, but her behaviour *is* worthy of being on guard at the very least.
My headcannon is that Anna grew up in a family where she was reased for her looks and told that this was funny. So she learned that teasing people about their looks is funny.
Doesnt make her a nice person – just more understandable.
No one’s saying that she’s not mean, just giving a reason as to why she’s being mean. There’s a difference there.
Besides, I’d much rather “Maybe Anna grew up where teasing people about their appearances is okay!” over “Malaya is abusive to Marcie because Marcie didn’t look happy in this one panel (where she saw Sal)!”
Remember, the first time Anna remarked on the size of Leslie’s nose, it was after she had complimented her on what she did with her hair. It sounds to me like Anna just lacks a filter. On the spectrum?
It wasn’t after, it was part of. Anything’s possible with how little we’ve seen of Anna, but it read to me like deliberate negging. An insult disguised as a compliment, so you can’t object.
I eat like a vacuum cleaner, my wife eats like a four-year-old who doesn’t want to finish her Lima beans. I end up watching her a LOT. Not really by choice, tho.
Gotta remember that line, if by some miracle a girl asks me out to coffee. I don’t like coffee because of the taste. Or tea. Or milk. Or pretty much anything with alcohol in it.
…I’m going to spend the rest of my life drinking soda and juice, most likely.
Eh, it’s not really necessary to say you don’t drink coffee in advance; there’s always other options on the menu. You just get there and order something else. Six years and change ago, I asked my now-wife out for “coffee.” She accepted, and we met up at a coffee shop. Neither of us ordered coffee.
I’m pretty sure my wedding vows included a line about that “coffee-that-wasn’t-coffee.”
Wow, I was definitely projecting stuff on Anna back when we saw her for the first time.
She’s still someone I wouldn’t try to date (based on what we know, that is, “I have to say one disobliging comment per minute or I’ll explode”). And to be her friend, I would have to know her from childhood and know some side of her personnality other than her directness, for my skin is fragile and likes to be left alone once in a while.
But this time I won’t write a paragraph of nonsense to beg her to change ! This is progress. I’m counting it as progress.
And she’s a dentist. I’m not saying she’s like Orin from Little Shop of Horrors, but Leslie’s attraction to people who aren’t good to her is connecting those 2 dots.
But if God does not exist then what is the meaning of life [Not happy, instead running away, waving his arms in a panic] But that’s okay. In Man Emperor of Mankind we trust! Emperor Protects!
What is the meaning of life if we are just created to praise God? “Hey, congratulations, you’re here to praise God or you can not praise Him and burn in hell for all eternity. Meaningful!”
Except Cegorach. He stole all the pawns from Tzeentch’s chess board. Switched Slaanesh’s aphrodisiac with a bottle of Nurgle’s crotchrot, drugged all the Blood Thirsters with chill-out peace-out super marijuana and filled Nurgle’s coffee mug with antibiotics.
If you are an agnostic, that means you don’t know whether or not any sort of supernatural deity/deities exist. If you are an atheist, that means you are certain no deities of any sort exist.
Personally, I think that atheism is an unprovable statement of faith, logically equivalent to all other unprovable statements of faith, which is why I call myself an agnostic. However, there are those in the freethinker/atheist community who argue that someone like me, who lives with the assumption that there are no supernatural deities, is literally a-theistic. To me, that’s not worth quibbling over.
I had that argument once. It was very annoying to me too.
The basis of the other guy’s point was “You can’t be just agnostic, because being gnostic is a spectrum about how certain you are, and theism is the your belief. So you must be either agnostic or gnostic, and either an atheist or theist.”
So, by his argument, a Gnostic Theist is certain 100% that there is a god, and a Agnostic Theist is uncertain if there’s a god, but thinks there probably is. And a Gnostic Atheist is certain there is no god, while an Agnostic Atheist thinks there’s probably no god, but isn’t certain. So, he would say that you’re an agnostic atheist, since you believe there’s nothing supernatural, but aren’t sure.
Personally, I thought it was dumb because it assumes that there’s only two positions when it comes to what I believe the answer is to “Is there a god?” I’d argue there’s 3-4 possible answers to that question: Yes, No, and “I don’t know and/or I don’t care.” I fall firmly in the last category, and also believe that the last category is by definition agnostic, no theism spectrum necessary.
I somehow don’t think Mindy is gonna feel too great when she hears that the woman who just ended their date early because she’s ‘not ready for dating’ just up and asked her house mate out on what I think is the very next day.
Interesting point. But she might just file this under conversational coffee (as it’s pretty spontaneous) – and I think she just wants to get to know Anna better. They at least did discover one thing they have in common.
I personally distinguish pretty much between simply getting coffee with colleagues sometime during the day (because we just met) and an actual date to which some kind of preparation or prior meet-up details-exchange is necessary. Maybe Leslie thinks like that too.
You mean an excuse for the date? (Sorry, my brain cannot right now connect dots) Or my argument that there’s a differentiation between spontaneously getting coffee and going on a date?
If she’s actually thinking that, it’s a justification “this is okay, because it’s not really a date”. Even though she’s doing it because she’s attracted and wants it to lead somewhere.
Ah, now I understand! Thanks for the further elaboration, and to that, yeah, I have to agree (as it’s very likely those are her thoughts, and not my suggestion above)
I hope Willis will consider doing a Slipshine where Mindy meets up with Sierra and co. I know lots of characters in this story are dealing with worse, but I feel like Mindy is in desperate need of a win.
I’m pretty sure the multiverse containing the old continuity and DOA will collapse in upon itself and take out half of the Internet if Daisy ever gets any.
Something completely unrelated, but maybe someone out there has the right advice for me (as clarification, we’re both older than 25):
Yesterday my friend was very depressed and seems to have suicidal tendencies (though she says she’s too much of a coward to pull that through) – and though I’m mostly in the same boat as her, I have a difficult time to find a way to help her other than be there for her (though to me it always helped talking with her or other friends, or seek distraction from these ruinous thoughts (which she plans to do for the next days and then it’ll be “okay again”).
I’d love to support her in some way other than drag her to get professional help (mostly because I myself have depression and suicidal tendencies and never went to get help – I know it’s very stupid. I have some reasons, why, though – as I’ve suffered (and still am doing so) through the depression of my mother, who is in therapy, but also has narcissistic or bipolar tendencies and me and my sister were the ones to suffer through that, and still sometimes do, though she did improve a slightly bit. But that’s a different matter)…
So, I’d be very thankful for any kind of tips, because I know even though talking with my friends about my problems always helps me tremendously (as I do have the most awesomest and most of the time very understanding friends I could have), I doubt that would help her, as she’s much more introverted than I am, and generally isn’t that talkative, unless she discovers a new fandom.
I’d appreciate any kind of tip other than force her to go seek prof. help (because I know from experience that doesn’t quite work out). Anyways, thanks for reading this, and sorry for being so off topic…
Based on what you have said, assuming she is to much of a coward to “pull the trigger” so to speak, she will find her way to drugs or alcohol.
She needs proper medication (So do you I might add), before this goes any further.
Psychiatrist not psychologist.
And even though you have had a bad experience, most of them want to help. (It’s the job they choose after all)
And neither of you should expect immediate results either, it takes time to find the root cause of the problem, the right medication and the right dosage.
Apology not accepted, you should never have to apologies for asking for help/advice when it comes to stuff like this, no matter where you ask.
Up till now she hasn’t and I haven’t either been addicted to any substance. Her “drug” is fleeing into distractions like watching anime or TV series.
I haven’t, because I’m very much aware that it wouldn’t help me with anything other than ruin myself more. And one of the few things I’ve got is a relatively healthy body and doing sports helps me stay out of the dark zones (so I suppose you could call that part of my ‘drug’ – though I’m not addicted to it. I just know that dark thoughts have a tendency to creep up more often when I’m incapable of relaxing through sports like running because I don’t have time to much more often than when I do).
My personal problem is that I exactly know what my problems are, and this stubborn thing in my head tells me that’s why getting a psychiatrist wouldn’t help. Which is very stupid, I know. I know I’ll go to one in the future, but right now I’m also thankfully being spared of the more darker thought-periods.
And I’m much more concerned for my friend than myself (but that’s just in my nature in general), because she’s in a place I was just a few months ago (before I found a part-time job and my needs for feeling needed and worthy of life were satiated a little bit).
Then I won’t say sorry but “thank you” very much for taking the time to respond. I’ll try to set my head right and by doing so also help my friend towards getting help for us both. Really, thanks 🙂
whoops, I forgot about the link limit. my other comment will show up sooner or later. 🙂
anyways…
“this stubborn thing in my head tells me that’s why getting a psychiatrist wouldn’t help”
yup, been there. that voice could easily be wrong or outright lying. I ended up trying a therapist again for my boyfriend’s sake, and after about a year then I was going for my own sake. 🙂
I find it helps a little to take a science-experiment approach: like, I can’t believe this could possibly help, but I’m gonna try the stupid thing anyways and document the results For Science! 😉
Oh – I hope it goes through (I’d be interested in reading it)
Ah yeah, going for the sake of others has crossed my mind various times. In my dark phases thinking of others was one of the things keeping me here (Mostly, because an uncle of mine died from suicide and I hardly emotionally survived the funeral, because his daughter, my cousin, was so devastated, even though you couldn’t have called him to be liked much or anything – but he was family; or earlier this year my sister suffering from burn-out – and after effects of our mother, and she did the really correct thing and immediately sought professional help, and my support). So maybe that’ll help me and my friend.
Thanks for suggesting this kind of point of view, I think with this I could actually do that.
it’s still in moderation, so here’s a copy with the links broken:
how about books? here’s the ones I started with:
*The Mindful Way through Depression [amazon]/The-Mindful-Way-through-Depression/dp/1593851286
*Feeling Good [amazon]/Feeling-Good-The-Mood-Therapy/dp/0380810336
I hated that second one and couldn’t even consider doing the exercises, but it helped anyways. 🙂 CBT is generally as effective as medication – and they stack, so both is better! If CBT is too infuriating, then DBT is probably better-suited (which is basically what I ended up doing without knowing it was a thing, lol)
also [captain awkward]/2017/10/03/guest-post-14-free-and-low-cost-mental-health-resources/
Psychiatrist AND psychologist. Medication may very well be appropriate, but it sounds like you both need coping skills. In any case, you need to bring in outside professional help for both her sake and yours – this is far too much for you to cope with on your own.
If she is a student, most universities have campus health services that are geared for dealing with things like this. If not, in the US, many therapists are listed on the Psychology Today website, and describe their philosophies and techniques so that you can try and find someone who will be a better fit.
Finally, if she’s really becoming non-functional or you think there’s even a 1% chance she might follow through, take her to the hospital. Not gonna lie, it’s likely to be an awful experience in the short term. But medium and long term, they can hopefully set her up with the help she needs.
I guess it is, and we should. I just need to find a way to keep it going (as they say, the first step is always the most difficult one).
She’s not, but thank you for suggesting it. I am still, and I’ve various times thought I’d just go there and try to cry my heart out and see were it’ll lead me. It’s just that damned first step, and of course in better phases I don’t consider going somewhere for help because the dark is in the past, I’m better so why should I? (and the circle repeats etc. etc.) Plus, it got worse with medication that’s helping me in one part of my life, but makes enhances the depression, so to say. And it would be hard to stop taking it (not as in being drug addicted, but as in it cures some other illness I have which would then reappear). But I guess that shouldn’t stop me from getting my mind to a good health.
We’re not from the US, but there are a bunch of advice-websites over here available, and campaigns of supporting the idea that mental illnesses have to be considered like any other illnesses, not as something to be blamed on the person that has them.
Thanks for the advice – I’ll keep it in mind.
I’ll take the hugs, thank you 🙂 *re-hug*
I hated that second one and couldn’t even consider doing the exercises, but it helped anyways. 🙂 CBT is generally as effective as medication – and they stack, so both is better! If CBT is too infuriating, then DBT is probably better-suited (which is basically what I ended up doing without knowing it was a thing, lol)
The anti-suicide resource that has consistently helped me the most including at times I couldn’t afford to see a therapist was this: https://www.metanoia.org/suicide/
And it’s what I recommend to my students. One of its key pieces is about the balance between coping strategies and pain. So, helping them and yourself build coping strategies (especially ones they can use independently so it’s not as intense of an emotional labor investment on your part), can be richly important.
Beyond that, I strongly support both the Suicide Hotline and the Trevor Project as suicide hotline resources as they can be life-saving, especially in the desperately holding on with fingernails stage.
It can also be worthwhile to let them know that medications or professional help exist and have helped people. Like, as you note, that’s not universal, but for some, it can really help. I know personally, getting on regular therapy and a good anti-depressant has been absolutely critical for even being able to think again.
But again, don’t drag them, just let them know it is a thing that exists and has had success with folks as it’s a really hard thing to try and manage a mental health condition entirely solo, especially as even when it’s successful, it’s a lot of emotional work that can drain spoons pretty fast.
But in general, just all the supportive hugs offered as you deal with this intense situation.
You guys have been so much help (especially because yesterday as I came home after letting her go home and today I was scared that she might actually do something and me talking to her meant nothing, but I heard from her and for now she at least states she feels a bit better). I’m going to try to soon let her know about those things you (and all the other great people above you) suggested and hope she’ll let me help her (and in the run, I’ll just as well go along help myself as well), or at least support her emotionally (though you are right, I wouldn’t be able to solely support her) and that I’ll never even have to consider dragging her somewhere.
Thanks again, these advices from you and the others mean so much to me 🙂
*appropriate gesture of support* I am clinically depressed and have been suicidal at various times in my life. IT SUCKS.
For me at least, calling a hotline was too intimidating. (I carried a suicide hotline business card around in my wallet for a number of years when I was in high school, but never actually got around to calling because actually directly talking to someone about what I was feeling was too intimidating.) However, there are a lot of GREAT online resources for depression and suicidal ideations. Here is a page I’ve bookmarked and like a LOT: https://www.metanoia.org/suicide/
Do you know of Jen Yates from Cake Wrecks and Epbot? (If not, google her – she’s really cool!) She also suffers from depression and other conditions, including severe anxiety. She posted on Epbot recently saying “DEPRESSION LIES.” Yes, it DOES. Whatever that depressed voice in your and your friend’s head is saying (I’m not being snide or dismissive – I hear it too) is saying, it is WRONG. It LIES.
Um…so my comment is in moderation due to links. Here it is with broken links:
*appropriate gesture of support* I am clinically depressed and have been suicidal at various times in my life. IT SUCKS.
For me at least, calling a hotline was too intimidating. (I carried a suicide hotline business card around in my wallet for a number of years when I was in high school, but never actually got around to calling because actually directly talking to someone about what I was feeling was too intimidating.) However, there are a lot of GREAT online resources for depression and suicidal ideations. Here is a page I’ve bookmarked and like a LOT: https:// http://www.metanoia.org /suicide/ (search for: “Suicide: Read this First”)
The Samaritans have a website where you can email and trained counselors will respond: https:// http://www.metanoia.org /suicide/ samaritans.htm (search for: Samaritans)
Also, here is a good depression support group: https:// forums.psychcentral.com /depression/
Do you know of Jen Yates from Cake Wrecks and Epbot? (If not, google her – she’s really cool!) She also suffers from depression and other conditions, including severe anxiety. She posted on Epbot recently saying “DEPRESSION LIES.” Yes, it DOES. Whatever that depressed voice in your and your friend’s head is saying (I’m not being snide or dismissive – I hear it too) is saying, it is WRONG. It LIES.
*giggles* apparently the mod filter triggers before after the filter that tries to linkify urls that don’t have the http[s]:// part. since your forum url wasn’t affected, I’m guessing it only matches [www dot ?*]
Okay – so I’ve posted twice now and it keeps going to moderation because of links. One FINAL time:
*appropriate gesture of support* I am clinically depressed and have been suicidal at various times in my life. IT SUCKS.
For me at least, calling a hotline was too intimidating. (I carried a suicide hotline business card around in my wallet for a number of years when I was in high school, but never actually got around to calling because actually directly talking to someone about what I was feeling was too intimidating.) However, there are a lot of GREAT online resources for depression and suicidal ideations. Here is a page I’ve bookmarked and like a LOT: https : / / www. metanoia. org / suicide / (search for “Suicide: Read This First)
The Samaritans have a website where you can email and trained counselors will respond: https :/ / www. metanoia. org / suicide / samaritans. htm (search for “the Samaritans”)
Also, here is a good depression support group: https : / / forums. psychcentral. com / depression /
Do you know of Jen Yates from Cake Wrecks and Epbot? (If not, google her – she’s really cool!) She also suffers from depression and other conditions, including severe anxiety. She posted on Epbot recently saying “DEPRESSION LIES.” Yes, it DOES. Whatever that depressed voice in your and your friend’s head is saying (I’m not being snide or dismissive – I hear it too) is saying, it is WRONG. It LIES.
Thank you, I’ll definitely bookmark that as well! (plus the other broken up links – in fact, I already bookmarked them)
I don’t know her but that sounds just like something my friend’d especially help hear about or read from, I believe (as I think she suffers from anxiety as well).
Thank you so so much!
I tried to post again but Chrome crashed – I’m on my tablet and sometimes stuff gets wonky. Please also forgive any typos for the same reason!
I just wanted to say that I absolutely agree with Cerberus and everyone else. I am glad your friend seems to be doing better. But PLEASE take some time for self-care! I have direct personal experience with friends who are severely depressed and suicidal. (A number of years ago, one of my closest friends at the time – who was temporarily living with me – attempted suicide in my apartment. He was able to call 911 and I had to go to the ER to find him and help take care of some of the ramifications.) I know how dehabilitating dealing with someone who is severely depressed/suicidal can be – especially when you may be dealing with those problems yourself.
I noticed that you wrote “me talking to her meant nothing.”
NO. Just NO. Support from the people about whom I care, especially when I’ve been actively suicidal, meant EVERYTHING to me. It is probably the reason I’m still here. I’ve had trouble (then and now), letting people know how much their support meant to me. You are a good friend and you ARE doing a good job of helping your friend.
I am REALLY glad that the resources I posted might be helpful to you and to your friend. And PLEASE take care of yourself and be well. *virtual hugs*
It actually reached through (see above) so I can profit from those links, thanks so much for taking the time to post it!
And I’m also very VERY sorry you had to go through that! I know such a thing is terrifying and traumatic (I’ve experienced it from a somewhat different angle with not suicide but my father having a severe heart attack and he was already in the op as I reached the hospital – he got through, but I hope I’ll never experienced something like that again. The friend I’m talking about and another friend of ours actually supported me through the evening during the op, and she was with me as I received the call from my father that something happened. I’m still so thankful to her that she came with me and supported me. I should tell her that much more often with words).
And…just…just thanks, I can’t express enough what this means to me 🙂
My depression might exist almost entirely to “protect” me from anxiety and other such mind-parasites. Since I made peace with it, it only wakes up either when medication-induced, or when anxiety is giving me so much emotional pain it’s tearing me apart. These days, the depression itself is mostly a numbing; the mean thoughts come from a *different* place, and depression tries to protect me by making me too numb to hurt.
This might be a stupid question but…
The way Billie and Ruth used to drink wouldn’t that protect their teeth?
Vodka is sterilizing so I would assume it makes you immune to tooth rot and infections, because your mouth is sterilized several times a day.
Alcohol (or any other antiseptic) has to come into contact with the bacteria to kill it – most of the danger of tooth decay comes from bacteria under the gums and such where normal drinking wouldn’t reach it. Same reason you can’t replace brushing/flossing with just using mouthwash.
Everyone’s telling dentist stories so here’s mine. We had the same wonderful dentist for 25 years as our kids were growing up. He was immensely skilled, gentle with needles, and always learning the latest technology and techniques. When I was there we’d talk about materials science and I gave him a book on fracture mechanics one Christmas. He got me through my accident and the subsequent failure of quite a number of teeth (I still have a full set, though some have titanium roots). He’d clean up a stub, laser scan it, import the data into a CAD program, design a new tooth, and CNC-machine a ceramic billet while I watched.
Some years ago he changed the name of his business from his name to something something LLC… and then he died. He had been terminally ill and still taking care of his patients. His son took over! And he and the very loyal staff are the same way; learning, improving, all the time. Just wanted to share a really positive dentist(s) story.
Now as to why dental insurance is so damn difficult, and why it isn’t part of regular health insurance, I have no idea.
Have to admit as many red flags as there on Anna, it is a relief to talk to someone who just comes out and says god is fake. I do get tired of tiptoeing around believers’ sensitivities.
Leslie is the one most likely to tiptoe around religious sensibilities. Anna doesn’t seem like the tiptoeing kind. But both are probably relieved to not have to hold back on whatever level they normally do.
That’s certainly how I feel when I’m with someone who just says it right out.
So this is to the comic but it’s Transformers related so I figure Willis will forgive me, but Transformers More Than Meets The Eye is currently on sale on comixology right now, and you can get all ten volumes of the series for $40.
It’s by far one of the greatest comics I’ve ever read with great drama, action aplomb, and tons of gay robots in space being sad.
I think I see what Leslie sees in her, because it’s a lot of the things I saw in Anna when she first showed up and a lot of the things I saw in my ex-fiancee.
Like, Anna being brusque and rude and having no time for folks has an origin story that makes sense. She’s a visibly queer butch of color working a job that tends to get mistreated by the general public on a regular basis.
Going out and doing life while any of those things can be a genuine chore that leads to being snippy and short-tempered and just wanting to go home and being away from all the horrible people giving you stink-eye every couple of minutes. It’s the excuses I tried to make for Anna’s behavior when she first appeared.
Shells as defenses are common and greatly make sense for someone marginalized so those who tend to date in those circles are already somewhat trained to try and look past masks and try and find what is underneath, cause that’s not an uncommon occurrence.
And I think that’s what Leslie sees here. Someone brusque, someone confident and real, but someone she assumes will be tender and loving in private and who knows, maybe Anna really does turn on the charm when she is actually dating them, but I worry that she’s as red-flaggy as she appears.
That she is someone who is used to keeping her partners for one reason or another on the backfoot and feeling like a screw-up who is earning some great chance to date them and be let into this person’s world. That you will end better than their exes that didn’t quite work out for vague reasons that are never really clarified, but they definitely put them down a lot.
She is after all, Mike in the last universe, which is a horrendous thing in a realistic environment.
But I understand Leslie’s hope. I’ve been there. It’s an easy path to fall down.
@Cerberus – It’s great to “see” you again and I offer condolences regarding your ex-fiancee, if appropriate. *offering appropriate gesture of support* Please have virtual cookies and puppies and kittens and tiny blue penguins (SERIOUSLY, do an image search for them) if you want! Your “comic reactions” are always incredibly thoughtfu and I look forwards to theml. 🙂
So, terrible dentist stories: I had braces for about five years when I was a teenager. My teeth were REALLY crooked. Since I have uneven enamel, I couldn’t have the braces that are “glued” onto your teeth – I had to have the old-school ones that wrap around the entire tooth. I’ve also got a very small jaw. This means that I needed an “expander” to increase the width of my top jaw so that my bite wasn’t so uneven. A jaw expander (sorry I don’t know the exact medical term for it) is basically a medieval torture device that consists of a metal bar clamped to the molars on either side of the jaw. There is a key (basically an alan wrench) that you need to turn every couple of days to lengthen the bar and expand the width of your jaw.
The important thing is that this is supposed to be installed BEFORE the bones in that part of your head have completly fused. MY ORTHODONIST FORGOT HOW OLD I WAS. I had it installed when I was about 15 or 16. It was INCREDIBLY painful. I remember one night after turning the key, I heard a very loud “POP” in my head. THAT WAS LITERALLY THE SOUND OF MY HEADBONES BREAKING.
At my next appointment, I told my orthodonist about what had happened and how much pain I was in. He kind of laughed and said, “Oh yeah, I forgot how old you were. I should have installed that earlier.”
I have NEVER seen my mom so mad at anyone. This was a while ago, but I’m pretty sure I remember that she looked into filing a lawsuit against him.
I currently have some terrible dental problems still. I need ALL of my wisdom teeth extracted and probably also the molars next to them. My wisdom teeth in my lower jaw are *literally* crumbling. I am not kidding. I occassionally spit out pieces of broken teeth. (YES, I’m aware this is nightmare fuel!) And the holes in my teeth are black, which I know is NOT A GOOD THING. The reason why this happened is not poor dental hygiene (I brush and floss EVERY DAY) but rather my small jaw again. When my wisdom teeth came in there was not enough room in my jaw for them. So they are crammed up against my molars and semi-impacted. Despite my daily flossing, food got caught there and the wisdom teeth started to decay. Hence the crumbling and decaying teeth. 🙁
The reason why I’m putting off taking care of this (and YES, I know that is NOT a good idea) is because I will have to go through oral surgery at least twice (my dental clinic says they can’t extract all the teeth at once) AND I’m on blood thinner. That means that before I undergo oral surgery I have to go off my blood thinner and give myself a series of shots in my stomach (of a different blood thinner) over a couple of days. AND the recovery period for this degree of oral surgery is a couple of days. Right now things have gone into overdrive at my work and I can’t afford to take off that long. I also have to mention that I had to do the blood thinner shots when I broke my wrist and when I had a root canal. THEY HURT. 🙁
oh god. …oh dear god that escalated quickly. what a complete asshole – “whoops, I broke your skull, silly me” 😛
…and wow, yeah, that second part deserves a trigger warning. *hugs* my worst tooth problem at the moment is that a filling broke just as my dentist closed for the thanksgiving long weekend, so it’ll have a bit of extra decay before they can get me in. (last time that happened – why do they always break during holidays? – I apparently just barely avoided needing a root canal.)
Now I don’t feel so bad about how my own orthodontic treatment ended… I had a thing at a similar age that was supposed to.. pull my top jaw inwards, iirc, so they could start putting braces on the bottom teeth… I only had to wear it at night, but after a couple of nights of crying and, iirc, not being able to sleep at all until I gave up and took it off several hours later, I decided I just couldn’t handle the pain, and so they just stopped all the orthodontic treatment, I got a retainer, and the bottom teeth just stayed a mess.
…but I could have a lot of the details wrong by now, I think I’m mixing it up with the time I was put on ritalin but my mother had me taking it at night instead of in the morning. 😛
Yeah, I really should have included a warning. It is probably a Very Bad Thing that I’m so used to my current dental problems that I’ve gotten kind of blase about them. 😕
Did you have a headgear? That is what you’re descibing sounds like to me. The really bad part about my orthodontist is that at the time he was the BEST orthodontist in our area – and he still messed up that badly. Teeth problems tend to run in my family. My mom had very bad teeth but her parents wouldn’t pay for any kind of dental care for her (she comes from an INCREDIBLY abusive family). My youngest sister had more teeth problems than me and has a number of dental implants. My middle sister has good teeth – I’m hoping my niece (her daughter) has inherited that sister’s good dental luck! I’m a little worried; my niece is 3 1/2 and she already has a couple of cavities. (And she DOESN’T have a big sweet tooth.) My sister took her to a dentist that sealed the cavities with silver diamine flouride. My niece still has her baby teeth so the dentist said it wasn’t really worth the money to fill them, especially because they don’t hurt. But I know that uneven enamel is hereditary, so I just hope that my niece won’t have to go through the dental H3LL that I have and am!
When people were hating on her based on early appearances, Willis came forward to say she was literally saying the same things that Mike would in Walkyverse who was his most popular character and that he was writing her dialogue and character with that process.
And NRE stands for New Relationship Energy which is basically the way one’s brain feels early on in a relationship ignoring any incompatibilities because the chemistry is strong and everything is fresh.
Yeah, like, in his universe it was pretty bad, but remove that and put it in a more realistic environment and it gets deeply deeply uncomfortable as we’re seeing with actual Mike in this universe.
Panels 1-2: Ugh, I’m going to do that thing I always do where I ramble about personal life that resonates so apologies.
My recent ex was a breath of fresh air in a lot of ways, because they gave me a lot of license to hold ownership over negative emotions. To show anger and frustration at mistreatment, to show fear and panic and sadness over scary shit happening, and to truly exult and nerd out about things.
That experience was novel to me and thus electrifying and allowed me to follow my NRE down a really bad rabbit hole.
Anna feels like she is creating that space here for Leslie. Like, Leslie does not have space much in her life to really express the well of anger and frustration she has about all the bullshit she has had to survive in life.
She doesn’t seem to have close activist friends she can vent to. Her coworkers make fun of her various crushes, her family is awful, and she often gravitates into caretaker roles where she has to downplay her experiences.
Like, look at the way she described her trauma for the class. I know that style well, I’ve done a version of it, sanitizing all the bits, only connecting the relevant bits to the lesson at hand, moving on without emotion. It’s how you disclose as a professional.
And with Becky, she’s not in a dynamic she can really rant about the shit she’s been through because she’s essentially in a mother role.
Anna allows that expression of anger and frustration, encourages it, seems to reflect a chemistry back in sharing that upset. I get the attraction of that, because it’s the exact traits that so enamored me with my ex and that space to really be flawed and full of emotions and even bitterness about wrongs can be very valuable and psychologically freeing as easily as it can be a trap for toxicity.
I hope Anna does not do what my ex did with the traumas I shared. I hope she’s better than many of us are terrified she will be. But I fully understand why Leslie is so hungry for this.
where you tell us compelling stories from your own life that make the comic feel even more… uh… feelings-y? 🙂 yay storytime! (although I feel a bit odd about enjoying something that has so much suffering in it… to paraphrase Pearl, it’s the one good thing that comes out of all these painful experiences)
and yeah, venting about shit can be fun and cathartic… and can also turn into something not-so-great…
But more seriously, like Inahc, I *really* enjoy your posts, Cerberus. 😊
I also have to chime in as an activist and an academic. Right now I have almost NO friends. I have colleagues. Yes, you form emotional bonds with your fellow protesters and your fellow professors. But these bonds are based around some very specific qualities and events and are also sometimes kind of “artificial.” For example, I went to the Women’s March on DC with other people from my union. But just because we were marching next to each other didn’t mean that we actually had much in common besides a belief in feminism and not liking Trump. I really understand Leslie’s loneliness. On one hand, I see some of the other people in my academic department more than I see my partner and my family. But we don’t really hang out together outside of work. I feel like there is an unspoken climate in academia in which we don’t want to be anything other than “professional” (as in, not going out drinking with or just socially hanging out with) our “work friends.”
My last relationship before the one I’m currently in kind of spectacularly exploded (long story for a different time), but I DID learn a lot from it. I’m glad that you are out of what sounds like a not-totally-affirming relationship and are recognizing what you’ve learned from your ex. 😊
It feels really strange, to have so many, many “friends” but at the same time be so lonely. I mean, I’m happy that I have friends and that all of them are good people, but they seem to care about how I can help them more than they care about me. None of them share any of my interests, and the most engaging conversations I’ve had with them are about how to answer a question, what they should do in this situation, and what are the answers to a question. Because of this, I feel as if the only reason they’re friends with me is because I can help them in school. Like, I know they’ll have my back, but all the same its still depressing to know that they only consider me a walking answer machine.
Panels 3-4: This is such a nice good flirting moment. A casual request. Leslie fully accepting the no response and while disappointed, not letting that disappointment bleed into any form of social pressure. Even an apology in case she was offended, which I don’t think would have been likely even without the panel 5.
When certain spree harassers argue that “it’s impossible to ask people out respectfully”, this is the proof that undermines that crap completely. This is a totally neutral way to do it. It’s not in a place with a position of power or reduced means of escape. It’s not hanging on their request and making it into a big social mess. It’s not dumping the feelings and expecting them to carefully navigate their way out.
Coffee and a casual acceptance of no. It’s solid.
Panel 5: This panel worries me a lot and is giving me some nasty flashbacks. Which like with all of this I fully recognize and own is likely coloring my responses and why I’ve been a little slow with my responses of late.
Like, my ex-fiancee pulled shit like this all the time. Creating weird unnecessary moments where I felt I was fucking up and then “funnily” coming in with a follow-up that made me feel grateful they were “putting up with me”.
Like, there’s not many natural reasons for Anna to phrase things this way. If her earnest desire is to communicate “I’m interested, but I’m not interested in coffee” there’s a lot of ways to do that.
But Anna doesn’t. Anna goes out of her way to create a moment of Leslie feeling dumb and silly for thinking there was chemistry and for her to beat herself up, and then posits a situation wherein Anna gets to look like the “better behaving” partner in what would be their literal first date.
That feels very strongly like someone actively trying to create a power dynamic… like a partner who keeps making minor negative comments every time they come over so you were always panicking before dates on “your turf” and finding it “easier” to always have dates on their turf to which they regularly kept you waiting outside for upwards of 20 minutes… to use a totally neutral and not at all personal example… yeah, it’s been a trip really picking through shit…
And on a more neutral level, it feels like someone avoiding any position of vulnerability. Saying “I’m interested, but not for coffee” creates a potential vulnerability. it’s asking for an accommodation request and puts her in the asking party and it’s very clear from her interactions with Mindy and Leslie that she is way more comfortable in the being wanted and being asked position where she has more direct control over the situations at hand.
And that again, could be a mask out of fear of being truly vulnerable and letting her heart get broken… but it can also be a really bad sign of someone who will find it easier to put their loved ones in a shittier situation just to avoid being “vulnerable”.
I hope for the best with Anna, but she’s raising a fuckton of red flags for me given my recent experiences that hit a little scarily close to home.
I’ve done something similar to what Anna did around the final panel, but the way I would employ it would probably raise way fewer red flags when you consider from an outside perspective my attitude is probably more akin to Mindy’s. While my bleeding heart would love to say Anna is merely trying to tickle the conversational funny bone, I have to say I can’t help but feel a wee bit nervous.
It really could have just been her first reaction to coffee. Idk if it’s ASD related but when people ask me “hey, do you wanna help me with ____” I often find myself responding with a blunt “No” before realizing that of course that’s going to hurt their feelings–when what I am actually thinking is “No, of course I don’t WANT to help you with that menial task any more than you want to do it by yourself, because that task is boring, but I would certainly be willing to help you if you asked directly because you’re my friend.”
I know that’s probably not where Anna is coming from here and I am so sorry for your own experiences with that 🙁 However, it didn’t strike me as a moment that could be interpreted as deliberate until after I thought about it for a little while so as always I thank you for your own insight into life experiences with people acting in ways that seem familiar.
I wonder if we’ll ever see an anti-Joyce arc with Leslie. Basically, Joyce becomes more open about religion and questioning. I wonder if the same will happen with Leslie in reverse–not that she will change her beliefs but become less angry about how it was involved in her parents abuse.
We had a bit of it with Historical Jesus and her coming to terms with one another.
Eh, probably not, as even positive experiences would be unable to make up for the sheer horrific treatment she’s received from her coming out to her present way of living a decent Princess Leia blessed life.
A molar began giving me trouble, so I went to my dentist. Who was on vacation. Dr. Slaughter (real name) was filling in. I had a choice between a root canal or an extraction. I wanted time to think it over. So Dr. S. prescribed an antibiotic. The tooth calmed down, and when I went back to my regular dentist, she suggested a ‘sedative filling’, since there didn’t seem to be signs of an active infection. So far, so good. Yay!
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would it be better or worse to destroy one’s teeth so to see more of a certain dentist
Well, that depends on if Leslie’s flossing technique is up to par.
No person’s flossing technique is *ever* up to par. — according to every dentist ever.
From what we’ve seen of her personality so far, Anna really is a dentist!
(I know, notalldentists. Mine is pretty cool, but part of that’s because I haven’t had a cavity since I became an adult.)
worse. it verges on creepy since you’re deliberately doing something just to see someone or get their attention.
I’m not sure how you date without ever doing anything to see someone or get their attention
But I know what you meant I think
If you ask me, dates are for when you have a functional relationship of some sort already. But that’s just my style I guess. To each their own.
Being straightforward about asking for the privilege definitely helps though.
yeah, like theres “wanna go on a date?” and then theres “i will do this thing that is debilitating to my health just to get you to notice me”
Especially if the “something” is scheduling a date.
/snark
“My dental hygienist is cute. Every time I visit, I eat a whole package of Oreo cookies while waiting in the lobby. Sometimes she has to cancel the rest of the afternoon’s appointments.”
― Steven Wright
Now I want Oreo cookies, you fuck. It’s everyone else’s fault that I eat like I’m trying to send a nutritionist into depression.
Well, “enough Oreos” is a good to get the attention of a nutritionist, if that’s your aim.
Sorry, “enough Oreos” is just not something I’m willing to understand.
Yeah, especially if they’re peanut butter or red velvet Oreos.
What are you, some kind of Oreo protestant?
In my home I’m trying very hard to not define “serving” as “the Family Size package, minus the four my partner gets”.
Or into a yacht.
OKay, so she is a dentist. And maybe she is Mindy’s boss.
And I was thinking, “She’s too young to be a dentist,” but apparently four years of dental school on top of a bachelor’s degree is enough for a DDS?
It still requires serious suspension of disbelief to go along with the idea that she has her own practice. And even more to accept the idea that she would have the time, during office hours, to go shopping for office supplies.
I’ve been to places where there are multiple dentists sharing the space, each with their own office. It’s not uncommon, at least in my corner of the Midwest.
We don’t know how old she is. She could be older than Leslie.
It’s Sunday. Her office is closed.
I had somehow forgotten it being Sunday that, despite the fact that this is literally happening during the Strange Communion Freakout Incident. So obviously, the fact that she is using her own personal time to do office shopping strengthens the possibility that it is indeed her own dental practice.
I should get some sleep before I jump to even stupider conclusions.
Stores are open on Sunday in America?
Not only are most stores open on Sunday in America, the recent move is to open stores on holidays when they used to always close, like Thanksgiving. Only on Christmas Day is American commerce at mostly full stop. Much different from Sundays in the South when I grew up, when you would seldom find anything open but the firehouse. And those guys never let me join their pool game.
Here in the West Coast, some types of stores are opened even on Christmas Day. Grocery stores, for instance. They pay extra to the employees working, have minimal staff and usually close early, but at least a few are open in most cities. And should you burn your dinner into something undigestable, Chinese restaurants are a good bet for being open. Just be prepared to wait for a long time to get a table.
As long as they’re not Hobby Lobby. :p
Or Chick-fil-A.
I work at Staples in Utah (a pretty damn Christian state) and we’re open, just with reduced hours.
Anna and Mindy have been roommates for ten years, implying 10+ years out of high school. I’d say 2 years after an 8-year certification is long enough to start a practice, and if it’s new, that could explain why her supplier isn’t a good one.
And it being 10 years after high school, she’d be 28, about the same age as Leslie.
“It still requires serious suspension of disbelief to go along with the idea that she has her own practice.”
Mm, you might be surprised. I don’t know about Indianna specifically, but there’s a fairly serious shortage of dentists in the United States overall. In fact, there are about 15,600 *fewer* dentists than there are open dentist positions in America. (source: http://www.dental-tribune.com/articles/news/americas/28294_dentist_shortage_in_the_us_to_worsen.html)
One of the reasons dental health in America is so poor compared to other similar nations is because there are such long waiting lists for procedures like fillings and root canals–sometimes several months! And the wait is even longer if a patient needs to attend a free or sliding-scale-fee dental clinic due to the expense.
So, an ambitious young dentist doesn’t actually have a ton of competition, and plenty of willing patients, if she wants to open her own clinic, even if she’s straight out of school. A dentist could also become so in as little as six years, if her undergraduate degree is in pre-med or a pre-dental technical program. If Anna had her sights set on being a dentist straight out of high school (age 18), and jumped straight into her own practice, she could be as young as 25 or 26.
I’m guessing she’s 28, though, although it’s a bit hard to tell with this art style.
my dad is a dentist
he had a private practice by the time he was 25
yadda yadda “serious suspension of disbelief” etc etc
Please excuse me while I disappear into this bush.
In Europe you’d be right. It is a ton of money to open a practice so you only get to have one before midlife crisis strucks if your parents are rich or you have suspicious connections
Nono, you’re fine. Enraging Willis is a cultural touchstone of the comment section. It’s what many of us aspire to.
FWIW, reality is often hard to believe because we’re actually fairly under-exposed to it due to the sheer quantity of reality and the tiny sliver of actual experience we actually get. It’s why ICT stuff like books and censuses and bureaus of labor statistics are helpful.
Reality is unrealistic, I guess.
Now I’m gonna feel guilty if I don’t brush and floss before every new DofA.
*jaw drops*
So I guess the lesson is, if you want fast dental service, drive up to Canada. 😛 and our dollar is in the toilet again so it’s extra cheap for Americans!
Might take you up on that. My dentist wants to charge 3000 usd for a retainer. That’s 3 months pay for me…..yeeergh.
Unfortunately, orthodontics are rarely covered by dental insurance. Maybe that’s why the quoted out-of-pocket cost is so high?
this reminded me to brush my teeth
So does Becky still get points for this? I mean, she is still responsible for it, but it didn’t go exactly as she intended.
Eh, I’ll give it to her. She’s awesome, but still has a ways to go before she gets close to Dina in the “Best Character Ever” ranking. Then they can be “Best Couple Ever”, taking the title from Sarah and Other Jacob.
“Maybe you’ll marry, maybe you won’t. Maybe you’ll have children, maybe you won’t. Maybe you’ll divorce at 40, maybe you’ll dance the funky chicken on your 75th wedding anniversary. Whatever you do, don’t congratulate yourself too much, or berate yourself either. Your choices are half chance. So are everybody else’s.” –Mary Schmich, “Advice, like youth, probably just wasted on the young”
aka Wear Sunscreen. 🙂 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wear_Sunscreen
Eh, Becky’s making up the rules, so the points don’t matter.
Whose line is that, anyway?
I mean… I don’t think this will go well, and it’s not Becky’s fault that Leslie keeps falling into this trap of abusive relationships, so… no points for Becky, maybe some negative points for Leslie…
Is that some kind of face in panel 2, Anna?
It’s a kind of smile. My face does that too; when the default shape of your mouth is kind of frowny-looking, a small smile barely recognizable as such.
Well that’s nice. At the very least this is the first strip Anna’s gone by without raising any red flags on us.
That being said, that last bit might raise some eyebrows. I found it kind of charming, really, at least by Anna’s normal standards as a complete jackass. I might be wrong though, if it is worse someone explain
Yo know, if she is SUCH a jackass that THAT exchange counts as charming, she may be abusive yet.
Man, dentists really are good at making you feel guilty about everything you eat
Wow. She’s actually worse than Mary.
Okay, how? She’s agreeing with Leslie on the God thing, and then agreeing to go get beverages with her. Yes, she’s been very rude in past strips, not gonna contest that for a moment, but… Is this really what puts her over the top for you?
Yeag, no
Not until she engages in blackmail sufficient to drive someone into suicidal depression, she isn’t. Right now she’s just insulting and insensitive.
In this strip she’s just agreed with Leslie and given sound dental advice for free. That’s pretty nice.
How? Mary is an openly hateful bigot who blackmailed another girl to the verge of suicide. Anna is rude with slight negging behavior. What is the comparison here?
Thank you, Phil Dog, for demonstrating the use of sarcasm in the comments section!
No, seriously, Phil Dog. Thank you. SO. MUCH.
Apparently dentists have the highest suicide rate for people currently in their professions.
This has nothing to do with Anna specifically, just something I heard at a recent training.
Though the instructor did point out how people often don’t like going to the dentist or are unhappy when they see them. I wonder how many non-Mindy, Leslie people are happy to see Anna.
I’ve never understood the fear of dentistry, unless anesthetics are an incredibly recent invention.
At least in the areas I’ve lived in, there’s an idea that you only go to the dentist if a tooth is literally rotting in your head, preferably with some degree of infection and bleeding. Once you get there, they of course have to break out the needles, drills, pins, and other fun tools for jabbing and yanking.
oh dear. 🙁 around here, insurance will usually pay for a checkup every 6/9/12 months, and they’re only something like $100-150 anyways. A friend of mine skipped checkups for several years, and ended up needing like $5k of work done.
I really wish Canada would cover dental checkups in the same way as prescriptions and chiropractors and stuff. :/
Yeah, here it’s pretty common for insurance not to cover it. I think I may have had insurance that covered dental checkups for a while in my childhood, but I’m not really sure.
Also, for many $100-150 just…doesn’t seem very much like an “only.” Long-term it’s often beneficial, but that’s kind of a luxury.
yeah, that’s why I wish the government would cover it, for the people who can’t just casually set aside $150/year. (and the people who can afford that are the most likely to already have insurance anyways)
Same here, especially since chiropractics have no small amount of pseudoscience involved in the industry.
Chiropracts have 100% pseudoscience, since they’ve never beaten a placebo.
It’s just a really expensive massage.
“Only 100 dollars” they say. Christ i I had 100 dollas lying around to spend.
Thats 25% of my salary shalala
I once had a (shallow, thankfully) cavity drilled out without anaesthetic because the single-surface filling cost me twenty bucks, and the shot would have cost another twenty bucks (this was in the early Nineties in Canada) and I only had twenty bucks.
The dentist figured it was shallow enough that he could drill it out without hitting the root and hurting me. As it ended up, I did get one hell of a twinge, but only as he was finishing that part so he didn’t have to keep at it after that.
TL;DR: Apparently simple dental work was much cheaper twenty years ago, holy cow! And also sometimes even twenty bucks means you don’t get to eat for the next week. Or make rent, or whatever.
Happily kids are covered, at least (at least for some stuff). But yeah, it ought to have full coverage same as other medical care; ridiculous to separate oral health from all other care.
Jeez, I have to force myself to go to the dentist, even for routine checkups. As soon as I open the door and get hit with that alcohol and clove smell, every neuron in my brain starts screaming “NOPENOPENOPEnononononoNOOOOOOOPE”… The part where they probe for cavities is the worst, if only for the anticipation..
I had two cavities filled without any novocaine, mostly due to a crippling fear of needles. (Neither hit the pulp yet so they weren’t hurting.) I still had to go to a physician for a one-dose prescription of diazepam to go through with it. The top molar wasn’t bad, but the one in my jaw was in worse shape so the drill was grabbing and I jumped and bit the drill a little. My dentist is pretty good and pulled away as fast as I jumped, so the extra damage was minimal, but just thinking about it made me wince for over a year afterward. My dental plan covered most of the cost, thankfully.
If you have the option, get dental insurance. Seriously, even if it pays for nothing but preventive visits, it’s worth saving yourself the long term pain.
This here is my fear, for any medical practise.
Insurance will only cover so much, and the rest comes out of pocket. If you’re LUCKY, you’ll be told how much BEFORE they get to work.
Doctors (and dentists) are the equivalent of natural disasters: You may have survived the ordeal, but you’re still fucked.
I’m not afraid of it, but I do dislike it. Bad things that have happened to me at the dentist:
*freezing starts to wear off before the appointment ends
*asshole dentist insists on doing the freezing too fast, causing immense pain and then gets mad at me for making noise and says mean things until I cry (I was in my early 20’s iirc)
*I discover that earplugs amplify sound inside the mouth, while my migraine is making sound extremely painful, and for some reason didn’t try taking them out (I actually had full derealization for an hour or two after that appointment)
*hygenist is in a hurry while flossing my teeth and it hurts a lot (actually that can happen even if they’re careful because my teeth are so tightly packed with several jagged filling-edges)
*even with the nicest dentist, normal freezing is a painful and deeply uncomfortable process. I’m not keen on needles and having them inject things always hurts for some reason. having to keep my mouth still makes it harder to cope, too.
*as a kid, there was always the shaming for not properly taking care of my teeth. sure it was true but it didn’t actually help me change – it wasn’t until I started taking my depression seriously that I had the strength to work on my teeth issues.
there are plenty of other uncomfortable things about having someone work on stuff in my mouth, but those were the most memorable parts.
I’m sorry you had to experience such bs at the dentist! :/
I think many people are afraid of the dentist in the same way my cat is afraid of a veterinarian. Because most go to the dentist if something is wrong: tooth ache (up to the possible need of root canal treatment or the need for pulling a tooth), caries, gingivitis etc. So people mostly experience a dentist appointment with pain or having problems. In my mind, it’s pretty similar to some people who actively avoid going to the doctor for minor-ish problems (e.g. a cough), until they feel really bad (or had the cough for over a month) – and some would even need to be dragged their because they just hate being examined.
As a kid I also hated the dentist (simply because it’s scary), but as I grew older with much more teeth problems, I kinda got accustomed to it. Also because my teeth are pretty bad cavity-wise, not because I eat just sugar stuff or don’t brush them, but because bad teeth or problem-teeth kinda run in the family. And I’ve got it especially bad because as with you, my teeth nearly all had a cavity at some point because they are so tightly packed. Was also the reason that as soon as my wisdom teeth started showing themselves I had to get all of them removed as there was no space for them to come up.
Anyways, enough rambling: as a future tip, try not earplugs but listening to music for longer appointments! I did that as my wisdom teeth were removed (mostly listening to Imagine Dragons – “Bleeding out” because some part of my brain found it immensely comforting to focus on the lyrics)
Ah, finally an Avatar that actually even looks a bit like me! (well the glasses fit, and the hair length) This is the one I’m gonna keep!
Some of my dentists have had TVs mounted over the chairs and they give you headphones and the remote and that makes it far, far easier!!
One dentist I had was great for injections; she’d put a topical anaesthetic on first, and then use the finest needle she could and just creep it in a tiny bit (still within the range of the topical stuff), inject a little freezing, give it a sec to take effect, creep it a little further in, inject a bit more freezing, etc etc. It was great; it still wasn’t pleasant; but to be honest, it was more me bracing expecting pain thanks to my childhood dentist than actually it hurting; I’ve had more pain and trauma eating Corn Flakes lol. She was really careful and super nice.
My childhood dentist, OTOH, was absolutely awful with needles. His method was to get it over and done with as fast as possible, so he’d just fucking stab it in there. Especially when he was doing one in the roof of my mouth it always felt like he was going to hit the bone (although he never did). The only reason I didn’t mind going to the dentist as a kid was that I kind of liked the rest of it (I think I liked the attention ha ha) and also he had comics in his waiting room. They were only Richie Rich’s; but it was still pretty much my only chance to read any comics at all growing up so going to the dentist was a treat. 😀 Wasn’t until I was a teen that I found a rack of actual, like, Batman comics in a corner of my local book store.
I mean, I assume comics were for sale somewhere in town; but I wasn’t aware of them.
Ah that’s nice too – though I personally just prefer to close my eyes, as without my glasses I also wouldn’t be able to see much (and with all the water spraying around, and seeing the dentist picking up instruments would creep me out more than actually experiencing them working on my teeth. But I’ve also had the same dentist past 8-10 years, so it might also be that I simply trust her not to eff up stuff.
That’s a really careful and nice dentist you had! Mine (the one mentioned above)l always tells me when she’s going to prick me with the needle and if I’m ever feeling any hurt or something (e.g. needing to cough) during her working I just have to raise my hand and she immediately stops and asks what I need. I’ve kinda grow accustomed to the needles now, so I don’t mind them as much as I used to (also because I once had so many appointments in such a short period of time that it just became an “eh, it’s alright, it just hurts a little”-kinda situation for me. I’m more uncomfortable afterwards when my lips or part of my tongue are still numb). 🙂
Ouch, sounds awful (but the gum is especially bad overall for needles as it always hurts being pricked in there). But the rest sounds awesome, especially the comics 😀 – we always got small sweet treats from the dentist, if we heartily promised to continue to always brush our teeth in the morning and evening.
Ah, I know that feeling. It took me years after watching my first anime to even realise that there are mangas out there – and that you could buy them(well, to be fair, I saw the first as I was like 8, so I wouldn’t even have had the money to buy them), and once I started buying them, for the first 2-3 years I just bought veeeery short series or one shots. And now I still have many, but I kinda grew out of collecting them (also because most series that are translated aren’t that interesting to me any more). There are like only 4-6 I’d still need to complete, and one of them I’ll probably finish at the age of 50, because new volumes take 2+ years to come out (“Berserk” by Kentaro Miura)
music wasn’t an option for 2-3 years there, the migraine was that bad.
anyways, wow, you remember your wisdom teeth being removed? I got the memory-loss drugs for that. didn’t even know the appointment was over until they told me. 🙂 I was talking to someone recently who didn’t even remember the ride home.
and yeah, english teeth genes suck 😛 (and the dentists in england were talking about pulling a tooth to make space, but that didn’t happen because we moved to Canada.) although it probably didn’t help that when I was little my parents rewarded me for brushing my teeth with apple slices. and as a teenager I’d grab a glass of orange juice after brushing to stop myself from throwing up (yes it was that unpleasant for me)
I had the same thing with comics, but it was calvin & hobbes books, at the chiropractor. 🙂 my parents would occasionally buy me a grocery store comic book, but I’d often finish it on the way home. I somehow didn’t find out superhero comics existed.
Oh, yeah that’s bad 🙁 (I can’t imagine having migraine during a dentist appointment – it’s already bad enough on its own!)
Yeah – mostly because I was fully awake during the operation XD I just received local anaesthesia for it, first for the right side (the operation lasted about half an hour, maybe a bit longer) and about two weeks later for the left side. That one took longer because some nerve was directly beside one tooth, and the anaesthesia wore a bit off in between, so I had to sign the dentist to give me another shot, and then he had to wait for it growing numb again. But all in all, the worst part was just the sensation of being drilled into the skull (which didn’t happen, it just felt like that), and afterwards the swollen cheeks and that I couldn’t really chew anything for a few days.
English…or like, another part of Europe XD
Oh my, yeah that sounds that it didn’t help – don’t eat stuff after brushing! (at least not immediately) – though I can kinda understand the orange juice thin :/. For me it’s really genes. My sister has had two ‘adult’ teeth plucked, because they were so damaged on the inside, even though her teeth look much healthier than mine.
🙂
Aww Calvin & Hobbes, we never really got that over here (non-English speaking country), just Garfield.
I sometimes worry when I go to the dentist for non-cleaning appointments, because sometimes my hygienist wants to start cleaning my teeth and save us the extra appointment. I have to remind her I have a heart condition that requires me to have antibiotics before any cleanings, lest bacteria get in my bloodstream or go to my heart. That really seems like the kind of thing that would be front and centre of someone’s file (which the look over at the start of every appointment) but she’s forgotten it more than once and I’ve had to be like ‘No, wait, we can’t do that today, I haven’t had any meds’.
My last dentist but one told me that that is no longer true. Apparently the occupation with the highest suicide rate in Australia is now veterinarian.
I did a web search and found a report from the CDC on suicide rates in the USA by occupation. The occupational groups are lumped together a bit, and maybe specific occupations differs significantly from their groups. Anyway, the occupational group with the highest rate of suicide in the USA seems to be “Agriculture, Forestry, and Fishery”.
Interesting. The guy doing the training has been doing it a long time, so I wondered whether some of his information might be out of date. I also wonder about if that report was differentiating between those currently employed and those who were retired and such.
Agriculture, forestry and fishery…yeah, I can see those jobs being very depressing in today’s climate.
“Oh boy, looks like climate change and human activity has turned this area into a barren, lifeless wasteland. Time to move on to the next piece of fertile area and ruin that too.”
I don’t know about the occurrence of depression among Dentists, but every one I’ve been to looks down in the mouth.
*rimshot*
It seems that, statistically, dentists have a high rate of depression. If you see a dentist, he’s probably looking down in the mouth. (e o joke)
Not to self: Gotta learn to hit refresh page, before posting.
This makes me laugh because my Aunt has exactly the same job title as Anna, but guzzles coffee like crazy, along with pretty much every other thing dentists are supposed to tell you not to do.
A man needs to get an emergency crown replacement, but discovers that there are only two dentists in the small town he’s in. He visits the first dentist, who has stained, chipped teeth, and his waiting room only has a few people in it. Visits the second dentist, who has a perfect, clean smile, and a line of patients out the door.
The man thinks for a moment, and then heads back to the first dentist. His reasoning is twofold:
1) The first dentist waiting room is empty because he takes care of his patients quickly and professionally, unlike the second one.
2) In a town with only two dentists, the first dentist must go to the second dentist for dental work, and the second dentist must go to the first. Clearly, the first dentist does better work.
I tried to assail your logic, … But apparently it is unassailable.
You know who else took care of teeth in his tonsorial parlor quickly and professionally?
Sweeney Todd.
I’d check Dentist #1’s floor for trapdoors first.
This is fantastic thank you
That’s why I still use drinking straws at 30. More delicious, tooth destroying drinks with less drink-to-tooth contact.
Anna being nice is weirding me out, similar to how I felt when Mary was being all cheerful and we didn’t know why yet.
This is not being nice, just nice for Anna’s usual behaviour.
My guess is she’s like Faye from QC; okay once you know her but she puts up a tough front. Or maybe she’s a somewhat more approachable Mike.
(Nice gravatar/post synchronicity, by the way!)
Webcomic time applies: This strip is perhaps ~45 seconds of real-life. It’s part of the same conversation in which she hailed Leslie as “Big Nose!”.
I’ll call her “crusty but friendly underneath” after a couple minutes more talk where she seems nice.
And I hope she is, if only for Leslie’s sake.
(But, I’ll agree Mary being cheerful is way weird, weirder than anything from Anna so far.)
panel 3: Oh, good, she’s being nice and direct, like Garnet!
panel 5: Damn You Willis!!!
Awww, bonding over saying ‘fuck god’. Tale as old as time that one.
Did Anna show the most interest in Leslie she has so far when the latter was snarky just now? I can sort of sympathise with that – niceness is nice, but you need a bit more (humour? sass?
wit?) to be attractive.
What about tea? How about a nice cuppa, no milk?
I think that stains teeth too.
Black tee stains your theeth worse than coffee (though if might provide some fluorine).
Are you typing from a dentist’s office?
Just an avid tee drinker.
Some of my best friends are dentists…
Like I said earlier… worst taste in mates…. “Dumbing of Age” for a reason. (These two, when Leslie crushed on Robin, Marcie Liking Malaya, Mike and Pretty much anyone, Roz and Joe (granted that was a one night stand, but the thought of these two on a permanent basis is… horrifying…), the saddest though, Joyce and any guy she likes (each times does not end well), Mary and her boyfriend, do I hear 8?
To the comic’s credit they do have a couple decent couples. I never was a fan of Dorothy and Walky, but they seem to be what each other need, and of course the one good relationship Becky and Dina.
Leslie, come on, you’re a college professor. You have power and authority, you don’t need to play the meek act. Don’t let yourself be bossed around by this poser. If you’re gonna date her, have it on your terms. Not hers.
it’s not an act.
I know, it’s just a term of phrase. I want her to be more assertive.
I mean, while she may consciously or objectively know better…so do many victims of abuse. What this makes me wonder is more about what kinds of behaviors she learned in her home environment, as, while it may have ultimately rejected her, that doesn’t mean she didn’t internalize some of its message.
Definitely, we all pick up these kinds of learned behaviors and reactions as part of our childhood. It sometimes seems impossible to ever rise above it. But we still have to try.
She’s an UNTENURED professor.
….. I think.
We don’t actually know. But since I’ve already made one stupid assumption tonight, why not double down?
At any sufficiently large university, tenured and tenure-track rarely teach freshman classes. (And then only if they really, really, want to.)
IU-Bloomington is a top-tier research university. Leslie is relatively young, and teaching a class full of freshmen. So I’m going with adjunct faculty (i.e. non-tenured).
Later in the day, they get to the cafe, order their drinks, and start talking. Within minutes, the other customers are treated to Anna and Leslie lightly banging on the table, chanting “God is dead! God is dead! God is dead!” at a reasonable volume until their drinks arrive.
I guess we’re not doing “phrasing”, anymore.
Not calling out any character here, I notice that I dislike Mike and Anna, but love Malaya and Carla. But trying to interrogate that beyond gut feeling, I can’t quite put my finger on why I would like Anna less than Malaya, other than baked in goodwill from Shortpacked-Malaya. Shrug emoji!
Malaya’s insults are a mix of insightful and/or naively misinformed. Carla’s abrasive attitude is one half independence and one half defense and one half high self-esteem. (There’s some overlap, that’s why it’s more than 2 halves.)
Meanwhile, Mike as actively, intentionally sadistic.
Anna is…. well, it’s POSSIBLE she just says whatever pops into her head and doesn’t realize how people might feel bad because of it. But all of this feels a bit like negging.
A couple of months ago I took a flight, and the woman sitting beside me awas a dentist on her way to a conference. I noticed that she took her coffee black, and asked whether it was a myth that black coffee stains ones teeth. (I take my coffee with milk to reduce the staining.) She assured me that black coffee does stain teeth.
“So what do you do?”, I asked.
“I go to a dentist”, she said, “and get them cleaned.”
I find that coffee with cream also stains my teeth, and rather more badly than the tea I also drink (I can differentiate from not having had any coffee for a long time).
But I also find that stain-removing toothpastes are a thing. 😛
I’m starting to like Anna. I hope I’m not speaking too soon.
It’s never too soon to like a character of unconfirmed trustworthiness. That gives Willis more chances to destroy your soul.
your soooouuuulllll
Aw yiss, exactly what I’m here for.
It’s hard to find this charming (even though it kind of is) after what a jerk Anna has been so far.
Maybe she just has a tough time letting people in, but still…
I hope this doesn’t turn into Leslie having a bunch of self-esteem problems.
It won’t. She’s already got ’em.
No, Leslie, just fucking no.
I don’t get why everyone is so down on Anna. She said a few blunt things, but in my world, blunt is good. Yes, your nose is big, but that doesn’t mean I don’t like it. A little bit of sass is good, and we’ve hardly seen Anna in enough strips to really make a judgement of her character–just her speech patterns.
her dialogue is based on the original Mike. it’s packed full of red flags for potential abuse; iirc Cerberus explained several on yesterday’s comic.
I mean, I’m still tired of comments that diss a character without adding anything meaningful to the conversation, but her behaviour *is* worthy of being on guard at the very least.
My headcannon is that Anna grew up in a family where she was reased for her looks and told that this was funny. So she learned that teasing people about their looks is funny.
Doesnt make her a nice person – just more understandable.
It’s always good to make up excuses for why people who seem mean aren’t really.
Let’s them get closer to hurt you more.
Not that I speak from experience or anything.
No one’s saying that she’s not mean, just giving a reason as to why she’s being mean. There’s a difference there.
Besides, I’d much rather “Maybe Anna grew up where teasing people about their appearances is okay!” over “Malaya is abusive to Marcie because Marcie didn’t look happy in this one panel (where she saw Sal)!”
Maybe she did. And if she hasn’t learned better in the decade+ she’s been out in the real world, that says something.
Remember, the first time Anna remarked on the size of Leslie’s nose, it was after she had complimented her on what she did with her hair. It sounds to me like Anna just lacks a filter. On the spectrum?
It wasn’t after, it was part of. Anything’s possible with how little we’ve seen of Anna, but it read to me like deliberate negging. An insult disguised as a compliment, so you can’t object.
I wouldn’t want someone talking to me like that.
It’d be incredibly awkward to have somebody just staring at you drinking something.
I eat like a vacuum cleaner, my wife eats like a four-year-old who doesn’t want to finish her Lima beans. I end up watching her a LOT. Not really by choice, tho.
Wonderful description. Me and my partner have the same dynamic. Can confirm, they do not seem to find it that awkward.
Just gonna hop on this bandwagon, because I’m the vacuum half of the dynamic, and it’s fascinating.
Me too. Sometimes if we’re at home, I grab an apple or something to just not be sitting there staring.
I bet this date will go better than the last two.
They’re going to a speakeasy, because that bar’s so low, it’s in the cellar.
Any lower and they’d need to crawl in, and as Groucho explained that’s no way to go in to a speakeasy, that’s the way you come out.
I thought I knew all my Marxisms!
At any rate, they won’t get in until they say “swordfish”.
Gotta remember that line, if by some miracle a girl asks me out to coffee. I don’t like coffee because of the taste. Or tea. Or milk. Or pretty much anything with alcohol in it.
…I’m going to spend the rest of my life drinking soda and juice, most likely.
Eh, it’s not really necessary to say you don’t drink coffee in advance; there’s always other options on the menu. You just get there and order something else. Six years and change ago, I asked my now-wife out for “coffee.” She accepted, and we met up at a coffee shop. Neither of us ordered coffee.
I’m pretty sure my wedding vows included a line about that “coffee-that-wasn’t-coffee.”
Picking up girls in Staples, now are we, Leslie? Becky will be proud.
Aaaaand, not to make a too fine point out of it… THIS STILL COUNTS AS A WIN FOR BECKY, GODDAMIT.
something something clean her teeth with your tongue something
See, I WASN’T GOING TO SAY IT.
Anna’s has a really weird fetish.
Fwiw my dad’s a dentist and he drinks tons of soda.
(soda is very bad for your teeth)
No, it’s not. Why, I just had a Diet Mtn Dew (obtained under sketchy circumstances) and a Cherry Coke, and that’s just tonight.
See, the nice version of the same sentiment would be “I don’t drink coffee, but yes.”
Grice’s cooperative communication principle. Geez, it’s not that hard.
Link please, you chaotic holiness?
Wow, I was definitely projecting stuff on Anna back when we saw her for the first time.
She’s still someone I wouldn’t try to date (based on what we know, that is, “I have to say one disobliging comment per minute or I’ll explode”). And to be her friend, I would have to know her from childhood and know some side of her personnality other than her directness, for my skin is fragile and likes to be left alone once in a while.
But this time I won’t write a paragraph of nonsense to beg her to change ! This is progress. I’m counting it as progress.
Hum, I seem to be forgetting basic english sentence stuff in this comment, I hope you can still understand it.
We can
Hmmmm.
LESLIE NO.
Was that a smile? And a joke? Leslie’s already having positive effects
And she’s a dentist. I’m not saying she’s like Orin from Little Shop of Horrors, but Leslie’s attraction to people who aren’t good to her is connecting those 2 dots.
Well yeah, coffee stains your teeth. So then you brush them to make them less stained.
Well, here’s to hoping things go well on this coffee date. Does Galasso’s serve coffee along with pizza (and subs)?
And if it doesn’t, there’s always Mindy.
Aww, they bonded over agnosticism. How sweet!
Wouldn’t that be atheism rather than agnosticism? The latter acknowledge that there might or might not be a God.
Honestly, not sure. I’ve been in multiple arguments about the meaning of those two words. They bonded over God not existing, OK, happy?
But if God does not exist then what is the meaning of life [Not happy, instead running away, waving his arms in a panic] But that’s okay. In Man Emperor of Mankind we trust! Emperor Protects!
For the Him upon the Golden Throne.
What is the meaning of life if we are just created to praise God? “Hey, congratulations, you’re here to praise God or you can not praise Him and burn in hell for all eternity. Meaningful!”
“What is my purpose?”
“Praising the God”
“Oh my God”
“Yeah, welcome to the club.”
The false Emperor’s faith and its disgusting practices appalls me as a theist–which is why I worship the Lords of Ruin.
🙂
I’m all over the filthy space elf pantheon. They actually have nice gods, even if they’re either dead or tortured
Except Cegorach. He stole all the pawns from Tzeentch’s chess board. Switched Slaanesh’s aphrodisiac with a bottle of Nurgle’s crotchrot, drugged all the Blood Thirsters with chill-out peace-out super marijuana and filled Nurgle’s coffee mug with antibiotics.
@Eldritch Gentleman. Cegorach is best God.
PS why would the god of sex need an aphrodisiac?
It’s for those silly mortals who try to resist… mhm Their charm. I wonder what does Slaanesh identify as, All Genders or No Gender…
If you are an agnostic, that means you don’t know whether or not any sort of supernatural deity/deities exist. If you are an atheist, that means you are certain no deities of any sort exist.
Personally, I think that atheism is an unprovable statement of faith, logically equivalent to all other unprovable statements of faith, which is why I call myself an agnostic. However, there are those in the freethinker/atheist community who argue that someone like me, who lives with the assumption that there are no supernatural deities, is literally a-theistic. To me, that’s not worth quibbling over.
I had that argument once. It was very annoying to me too.
The basis of the other guy’s point was “You can’t be just agnostic, because being gnostic is a spectrum about how certain you are, and theism is the your belief. So you must be either agnostic or gnostic, and either an atheist or theist.”
So, by his argument, a Gnostic Theist is certain 100% that there is a god, and a Agnostic Theist is uncertain if there’s a god, but thinks there probably is. And a Gnostic Atheist is certain there is no god, while an Agnostic Atheist thinks there’s probably no god, but isn’t certain. So, he would say that you’re an agnostic atheist, since you believe there’s nothing supernatural, but aren’t sure.
Personally, I thought it was dumb because it assumes that there’s only two positions when it comes to what I believe the answer is to “Is there a god?” I’d argue there’s 3-4 possible answers to that question: Yes, No, and “I don’t know and/or I don’t care.” I fall firmly in the last category, and also believe that the last category is by definition agnostic, no theism spectrum necessary.
Jup, atheism it is.
I somehow don’t think Mindy is gonna feel too great when she hears that the woman who just ended their date early because she’s ‘not ready for dating’ just up and asked her house mate out on what I think is the very next day.
Poor Mindy 🙁
yeahh I was thinking about that too. Like, didn’t Leslie say she was going to finish up some things concerning Robin before going on more dates?
Interesting point. But she might just file this under conversational coffee (as it’s pretty spontaneous) – and I think she just wants to get to know Anna better. They at least did discover one thing they have in common.
I personally distinguish pretty much between simply getting coffee with colleagues sometime during the day (because we just met) and an actual date to which some kind of preparation or prior meet-up details-exchange is necessary. Maybe Leslie thinks like that too.
That’s an excuse.
You mean an excuse for the date? (Sorry, my brain cannot right now connect dots) Or my argument that there’s a differentiation between spontaneously getting coffee and going on a date?
If she’s actually thinking that, it’s a justification “this is okay, because it’s not really a date”. Even though she’s doing it because she’s attracted and wants it to lead somewhere.
Ah, now I understand! Thanks for the further elaboration, and to that, yeah, I have to agree (as it’s very likely those are her thoughts, and not my suggestion above)
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/04-the-do-list/dating/
panel 5: “but I need a clean break. a distraction. and not just hear[ing] an echo of myself right now.”
I guess Anna is the “distraction” now >.<
*thud* Oh right, I forgot that’s how Leslie ended their dinner.
And this will put an awkward damper on the dental partnership.
That’s definitely not gonna be good for Mindy’s self-esteem, no. Poor Mindy. 🙁
Turns out that, as in so many cases, “not ready for dating” just meant “not ready for dating YOU.”
Nice save, Anna.
I hope Willis will consider doing a Slipshine where Mindy meets up with Sierra and co. I know lots of characters in this story are dealing with worse, but I feel like Mindy is in desperate need of a win.
If Mindy is age-appropriate to date Leslie, she’s likely not age-appropriate to date Sierra. What do we know about Daisy, though?
I’m pretty sure the multiverse containing the old continuity and DOA will collapse in upon itself and take out half of the Internet if Daisy ever gets any.
Ever gets any… coffee? Is she ALSO worried about the colour of her teeth?
Something completely unrelated, but maybe someone out there has the right advice for me (as clarification, we’re both older than 25):
Yesterday my friend was very depressed and seems to have suicidal tendencies (though she says she’s too much of a coward to pull that through) – and though I’m mostly in the same boat as her, I have a difficult time to find a way to help her other than be there for her (though to me it always helped talking with her or other friends, or seek distraction from these ruinous thoughts (which she plans to do for the next days and then it’ll be “okay again”).
I’d love to support her in some way other than drag her to get professional help (mostly because I myself have depression and suicidal tendencies and never went to get help – I know it’s very stupid. I have some reasons, why, though – as I’ve suffered (and still am doing so) through the depression of my mother, who is in therapy, but also has narcissistic or bipolar tendencies and me and my sister were the ones to suffer through that, and still sometimes do, though she did improve a slightly bit. But that’s a different matter)…
So, I’d be very thankful for any kind of tips, because I know even though talking with my friends about my problems always helps me tremendously (as I do have the most awesomest and most of the time very understanding friends I could have), I doubt that would help her, as she’s much more introverted than I am, and generally isn’t that talkative, unless she discovers a new fandom.
I’d appreciate any kind of tip other than force her to go seek prof. help (because I know from experience that doesn’t quite work out). Anyways, thanks for reading this, and sorry for being so off topic…
Based on what you have said, assuming she is to much of a coward to “pull the trigger” so to speak, she will find her way to drugs or alcohol.
She needs proper medication (So do you I might add), before this goes any further.
Psychiatrist not psychologist.
And even though you have had a bad experience, most of them want to help. (It’s the job they choose after all)
And neither of you should expect immediate results either, it takes time to find the root cause of the problem, the right medication and the right dosage.
Apology not accepted, you should never have to apologies for asking for help/advice when it comes to stuff like this, no matter where you ask.
Up till now she hasn’t and I haven’t either been addicted to any substance. Her “drug” is fleeing into distractions like watching anime or TV series.
I haven’t, because I’m very much aware that it wouldn’t help me with anything other than ruin myself more. And one of the few things I’ve got is a relatively healthy body and doing sports helps me stay out of the dark zones (so I suppose you could call that part of my ‘drug’ – though I’m not addicted to it. I just know that dark thoughts have a tendency to creep up more often when I’m incapable of relaxing through sports like running because I don’t have time to much more often than when I do).
My personal problem is that I exactly know what my problems are, and this stubborn thing in my head tells me that’s why getting a psychiatrist wouldn’t help. Which is very stupid, I know. I know I’ll go to one in the future, but right now I’m also thankfully being spared of the more darker thought-periods.
And I’m much more concerned for my friend than myself (but that’s just in my nature in general), because she’s in a place I was just a few months ago (before I found a part-time job and my needs for feeling needed and worthy of life were satiated a little bit).
Then I won’t say sorry but “thank you” very much for taking the time to respond. I’ll try to set my head right and by doing so also help my friend towards getting help for us both. Really, thanks 🙂
whoops, I forgot about the link limit. my other comment will show up sooner or later. 🙂
anyways…
“this stubborn thing in my head tells me that’s why getting a psychiatrist wouldn’t help”
yup, been there. that voice could easily be wrong or outright lying. I ended up trying a therapist again for my boyfriend’s sake, and after about a year then I was going for my own sake. 🙂
I find it helps a little to take a science-experiment approach: like, I can’t believe this could possibly help, but I’m gonna try the stupid thing anyways and document the results For Science! 😉
Oh – I hope it goes through (I’d be interested in reading it)
Ah yeah, going for the sake of others has crossed my mind various times. In my dark phases thinking of others was one of the things keeping me here (Mostly, because an uncle of mine died from suicide and I hardly emotionally survived the funeral, because his daughter, my cousin, was so devastated, even though you couldn’t have called him to be liked much or anything – but he was family; or earlier this year my sister suffering from burn-out – and after effects of our mother, and she did the really correct thing and immediately sought professional help, and my support). So maybe that’ll help me and my friend.
Thanks for suggesting this kind of point of view, I think with this I could actually do that.
I forgot to put a smiley in there…
Thanks so much 🙂
🙂 *hugs*
it’s still in moderation, so here’s a copy with the links broken:
how about books? here’s the ones I started with:
*The Mindful Way through Depression [amazon]/The-Mindful-Way-through-Depression/dp/1593851286
*Feeling Good [amazon]/Feeling-Good-The-Mood-Therapy/dp/0380810336
I hated that second one and couldn’t even consider doing the exercises, but it helped anyways. 🙂 CBT is generally as effective as medication – and they stack, so both is better! If CBT is too infuriating, then DBT is probably better-suited (which is basically what I ended up doing without knowing it was a thing, lol)
also [captain awkward]/2017/10/03/guest-post-14-free-and-low-cost-mental-health-resources/
I’m gonna repeat myself, but thanks so much!!! *gladly takes the hug*
What are CBT and DBT?
CBT: cognitive behavioral therapy.
DBT: dialectical behaviour therapy?
Those and mindfulness/meditation are the big non-medication tools for a lot of brain stuff.
Psychiatrist AND psychologist. Medication may very well be appropriate, but it sounds like you both need coping skills. In any case, you need to bring in outside professional help for both her sake and yours – this is far too much for you to cope with on your own.
If she is a student, most universities have campus health services that are geared for dealing with things like this. If not, in the US, many therapists are listed on the Psychology Today website, and describe their philosophies and techniques so that you can try and find someone who will be a better fit.
Finally, if she’s really becoming non-functional or you think there’s even a 1% chance she might follow through, take her to the hospital. Not gonna lie, it’s likely to be an awful experience in the short term. But medium and long term, they can hopefully set her up with the help she needs.
*hugs or other appropriate gesture of support*
I guess it is, and we should. I just need to find a way to keep it going (as they say, the first step is always the most difficult one).
She’s not, but thank you for suggesting it. I am still, and I’ve various times thought I’d just go there and try to cry my heart out and see were it’ll lead me. It’s just that damned first step, and of course in better phases I don’t consider going somewhere for help because the dark is in the past, I’m better so why should I? (and the circle repeats etc. etc.) Plus, it got worse with medication that’s helping me in one part of my life, but makes enhances the depression, so to say. And it would be hard to stop taking it (not as in being drug addicted, but as in it cures some other illness I have which would then reappear). But I guess that shouldn’t stop me from getting my mind to a good health.
We’re not from the US, but there are a bunch of advice-websites over here available, and campaigns of supporting the idea that mental illnesses have to be considered like any other illnesses, not as something to be blamed on the person that has them.
Thanks for the advice – I’ll keep it in mind.
I’ll take the hugs, thank you 🙂 *re-hug*
Have you tried whatever suicide hotline is available in your area, if any? That’s not professional help, exactly.
All the best for you and your friend.
Not yet, but I might consider it. Thank you 🙂
how about books? here’s the ones I started with:
*The Mindful Way through Depression http://www.amazon.ca/The-Mindful-Way-through-Depression/dp/1593851286
*Feeling Good http://www.amazon.ca/Feeling-Good-The-Mood-Therapy/dp/0380810336
I hated that second one and couldn’t even consider doing the exercises, but it helped anyways. 🙂 CBT is generally as effective as medication – and they stack, so both is better! If CBT is too infuriating, then DBT is probably better-suited (which is basically what I ended up doing without knowing it was a thing, lol)
also https://captainawkward.com/2017/10/03/guest-post-14-free-and-low-cost-mental-health-resources/
*Appropriate gesture of support*
The anti-suicide resource that has consistently helped me the most including at times I couldn’t afford to see a therapist was this:
https://www.metanoia.org/suicide/
And it’s what I recommend to my students. One of its key pieces is about the balance between coping strategies and pain. So, helping them and yourself build coping strategies (especially ones they can use independently so it’s not as intense of an emotional labor investment on your part), can be richly important.
Beyond that, I strongly support both the Suicide Hotline and the Trevor Project as suicide hotline resources as they can be life-saving, especially in the desperately holding on with fingernails stage.
It can also be worthwhile to let them know that medications or professional help exist and have helped people. Like, as you note, that’s not universal, but for some, it can really help. I know personally, getting on regular therapy and a good anti-depressant has been absolutely critical for even being able to think again.
But again, don’t drag them, just let them know it is a thing that exists and has had success with folks as it’s a really hard thing to try and manage a mental health condition entirely solo, especially as even when it’s successful, it’s a lot of emotional work that can drain spoons pretty fast.
But in general, just all the supportive hugs offered as you deal with this intense situation.
That’s really good advice, thank you so much!
You guys have been so much help (especially because yesterday as I came home after letting her go home and today I was scared that she might actually do something and me talking to her meant nothing, but I heard from her and for now she at least states she feels a bit better). I’m going to try to soon let her know about those things you (and all the other great people above you) suggested and hope she’ll let me help her (and in the run, I’ll just as well go along help myself as well), or at least support her emotionally (though you are right, I wouldn’t be able to solely support her) and that I’ll never even have to consider dragging her somewhere.
Thanks again, these advices from you and the others mean so much to me 🙂
I’m glad she’s in a safer place. Please also take care of yourself through this. Emotional care work can be intense.
*massive hug*
Thanks so much for the link. I had been looking for it myself earlier, without the best success rate…so thanks for linking it again here. 🙂
*appropriate gesture of support* I am clinically depressed and have been suicidal at various times in my life. IT SUCKS.
For me at least, calling a hotline was too intimidating. (I carried a suicide hotline business card around in my wallet for a number of years when I was in high school, but never actually got around to calling because actually directly talking to someone about what I was feeling was too intimidating.) However, there are a lot of GREAT online resources for depression and suicidal ideations. Here is a page I’ve bookmarked and like a LOT: https://www.metanoia.org/suicide/
The Samaritans have a website where you can email and trained counselors will respond: https://www.metanoia.org/suicide/samaritans.htm
Also, here is a good depression support group: https://forums.psychcentral.com/depression/
Do you know of Jen Yates from Cake Wrecks and Epbot? (If not, google her – she’s really cool!) She also suffers from depression and other conditions, including severe anxiety. She posted on Epbot recently saying “DEPRESSION LIES.” Yes, it DOES. Whatever that depressed voice in your and your friend’s head is saying (I’m not being snide or dismissive – I hear it too) is saying, it is WRONG. It LIES.
Please be safe and well.
Um…so my comment is in moderation due to links. Here it is with broken links:
*appropriate gesture of support* I am clinically depressed and have been suicidal at various times in my life. IT SUCKS.
For me at least, calling a hotline was too intimidating. (I carried a suicide hotline business card around in my wallet for a number of years when I was in high school, but never actually got around to calling because actually directly talking to someone about what I was feeling was too intimidating.) However, there are a lot of GREAT online resources for depression and suicidal ideations. Here is a page I’ve bookmarked and like a LOT: https:// http://www.metanoia.org /suicide/ (search for: “Suicide: Read this First”)
The Samaritans have a website where you can email and trained counselors will respond: https:// http://www.metanoia.org /suicide/ samaritans.htm (search for: Samaritans)
Also, here is a good depression support group: https:// forums.psychcentral.com /depression/
Do you know of Jen Yates from Cake Wrecks and Epbot? (If not, google her – she’s really cool!) She also suffers from depression and other conditions, including severe anxiety. She posted on Epbot recently saying “DEPRESSION LIES.” Yes, it DOES. Whatever that depressed voice in your and your friend’s head is saying (I’m not being snide or dismissive – I hear it too) is saying, it is WRONG. It LIES.
Please be safe and well.
*giggles* apparently the mod filter triggers
beforeafter the filter that tries to linkify urls that don’t have the http[s]:// part. since your forum url wasn’t affected, I’m guessing it only matches [www dot ?*]Okay – so I’ve posted twice now and it keeps going to moderation because of links. One FINAL time:
*appropriate gesture of support* I am clinically depressed and have been suicidal at various times in my life. IT SUCKS.
For me at least, calling a hotline was too intimidating. (I carried a suicide hotline business card around in my wallet for a number of years when I was in high school, but never actually got around to calling because actually directly talking to someone about what I was feeling was too intimidating.) However, there are a lot of GREAT online resources for depression and suicidal ideations. Here is a page I’ve bookmarked and like a LOT: https : / / www. metanoia. org / suicide / (search for “Suicide: Read This First)
The Samaritans have a website where you can email and trained counselors will respond: https :/ / www. metanoia. org / suicide / samaritans. htm (search for “the Samaritans”)
Also, here is a good depression support group: https : / / forums. psychcentral. com / depression /
Do you know of Jen Yates from Cake Wrecks and Epbot? (If not, google her – she’s really cool!) She also suffers from depression and other conditions, including severe anxiety. She posted on Epbot recently saying “DEPRESSION LIES.” Yes, it DOES. Whatever that depressed voice in your and your friend’s head is saying (I’m not being snide or dismissive – I hear it too) is saying, it is WRONG. It LIES.
Please be safe and well.
You are right – it sucks.
Thank you, I’ll definitely bookmark that as well! (plus the other broken up links – in fact, I already bookmarked them)
I don’t know her but that sounds just like something my friend’d especially help hear about or read from, I believe (as I think she suffers from anxiety as well).
Thank you so so much!
I tried to post again but Chrome crashed – I’m on my tablet and sometimes stuff gets wonky. Please also forgive any typos for the same reason!
I just wanted to say that I absolutely agree with Cerberus and everyone else. I am glad your friend seems to be doing better. But PLEASE take some time for self-care! I have direct personal experience with friends who are severely depressed and suicidal. (A number of years ago, one of my closest friends at the time – who was temporarily living with me – attempted suicide in my apartment. He was able to call 911 and I had to go to the ER to find him and help take care of some of the ramifications.) I know how dehabilitating dealing with someone who is severely depressed/suicidal can be – especially when you may be dealing with those problems yourself.
I noticed that you wrote “me talking to her meant nothing.”
NO. Just NO. Support from the people about whom I care, especially when I’ve been actively suicidal, meant EVERYTHING to me. It is probably the reason I’m still here. I’ve had trouble (then and now), letting people know how much their support meant to me. You are a good friend and you ARE doing a good job of helping your friend.
I am REALLY glad that the resources I posted might be helpful to you and to your friend. And PLEASE take care of yourself and be well. *virtual hugs*
It actually reached through (see above) so I can profit from those links, thanks so much for taking the time to post it!
And I’m also very VERY sorry you had to go through that! I know such a thing is terrifying and traumatic (I’ve experienced it from a somewhat different angle with not suicide but my father having a severe heart attack and he was already in the op as I reached the hospital – he got through, but I hope I’ll never experienced something like that again. The friend I’m talking about and another friend of ours actually supported me through the evening during the op, and she was with me as I received the call from my father that something happened. I’m still so thankful to her that she came with me and supported me. I should tell her that much more often with words).
And…just…just thanks, I can’t express enough what this means to me 🙂
My depression might exist almost entirely to “protect” me from anxiety and other such mind-parasites. Since I made peace with it, it only wakes up either when medication-induced, or when anxiety is giving me so much emotional pain it’s tearing me apart. These days, the depression itself is mostly a numbing; the mean thoughts come from a *different* place, and depression tries to protect me by making me too numb to hurt.
This might be a stupid question but…
The way Billie and Ruth used to drink wouldn’t that protect their teeth?
Vodka is sterilizing so I would assume it makes you immune to tooth rot and infections, because your mouth is sterilized several times a day.
Alcohol (or any other antiseptic) has to come into contact with the bacteria to kill it – most of the danger of tooth decay comes from bacteria under the gums and such where normal drinking wouldn’t reach it. Same reason you can’t replace brushing/flossing with just using mouthwash.
(There’s actually some evidence that alcoholism increases the risk of tooth problems, see e.g. : http://www.joponline.org/doi/abs/10.1902/jop.2015.150087 )
Everyone’s telling dentist stories so here’s mine. We had the same wonderful dentist for 25 years as our kids were growing up. He was immensely skilled, gentle with needles, and always learning the latest technology and techniques. When I was there we’d talk about materials science and I gave him a book on fracture mechanics one Christmas. He got me through my accident and the subsequent failure of quite a number of teeth (I still have a full set, though some have titanium roots). He’d clean up a stub, laser scan it, import the data into a CAD program, design a new tooth, and CNC-machine a ceramic billet while I watched.
Some years ago he changed the name of his business from his name to something something LLC… and then he died. He had been terminally ill and still taking care of his patients. His son took over! And he and the very loyal staff are the same way; learning, improving, all the time. Just wanted to share a really positive dentist(s) story.
Now as to why dental insurance is so damn difficult, and why it isn’t part of regular health insurance, I have no idea.
Have to admit as many red flags as there on Anna, it is a relief to talk to someone who just comes out and says god is fake. I do get tired of tiptoeing around believers’ sensitivities.
You mean Leslie? She says it first. “What with him being made up and all.”
Anna’s just cruder about it.
Yes and yes.
Leslie is the one most likely to tiptoe around religious sensibilities. Anna doesn’t seem like the tiptoeing kind. But both are probably relieved to not have to hold back on whatever level they normally do.
That’s certainly how I feel when I’m with someone who just says it right out.
So this is to the comic but it’s Transformers related so I figure Willis will forgive me, but Transformers More Than Meets The Eye is currently on sale on comixology right now, and you can get all ten volumes of the series for $40.
It’s by far one of the greatest comics I’ve ever read with great drama, action aplomb, and tons of gay robots in space being sad.
https://www.comixology.com/IDW-Hits-Sale/page/16353?ref=c2l0ZS9pbmRleC9kZXNrdG9wL2xhcmdlQ2Fyb3VzZWw
Comic Reactions:
I think I see what Leslie sees in her, because it’s a lot of the things I saw in Anna when she first showed up and a lot of the things I saw in my ex-fiancee.
Like, Anna being brusque and rude and having no time for folks has an origin story that makes sense. She’s a visibly queer butch of color working a job that tends to get mistreated by the general public on a regular basis.
Going out and doing life while any of those things can be a genuine chore that leads to being snippy and short-tempered and just wanting to go home and being away from all the horrible people giving you stink-eye every couple of minutes. It’s the excuses I tried to make for Anna’s behavior when she first appeared.
Shells as defenses are common and greatly make sense for someone marginalized so those who tend to date in those circles are already somewhat trained to try and look past masks and try and find what is underneath, cause that’s not an uncommon occurrence.
And I think that’s what Leslie sees here. Someone brusque, someone confident and real, but someone she assumes will be tender and loving in private and who knows, maybe Anna really does turn on the charm when she is actually dating them, but I worry that she’s as red-flaggy as she appears.
That she is someone who is used to keeping her partners for one reason or another on the backfoot and feeling like a screw-up who is earning some great chance to date them and be let into this person’s world. That you will end better than their exes that didn’t quite work out for vague reasons that are never really clarified, but they definitely put them down a lot.
She is after all, Mike in the last universe, which is a horrendous thing in a realistic environment.
But I understand Leslie’s hope. I’ve been there. It’s an easy path to fall down.
@Cerberus – It’s great to “see” you again and I offer condolences regarding your ex-fiancee, if appropriate. *offering appropriate gesture of support* Please have virtual cookies and puppies and kittens and tiny blue penguins (SERIOUSLY, do an image search for them) if you want! Your “comic reactions” are always incredibly thoughtfu and I look forwards to theml. 🙂
So, terrible dentist stories: I had braces for about five years when I was a teenager. My teeth were REALLY crooked. Since I have uneven enamel, I couldn’t have the braces that are “glued” onto your teeth – I had to have the old-school ones that wrap around the entire tooth. I’ve also got a very small jaw. This means that I needed an “expander” to increase the width of my top jaw so that my bite wasn’t so uneven. A jaw expander (sorry I don’t know the exact medical term for it) is basically a medieval torture device that consists of a metal bar clamped to the molars on either side of the jaw. There is a key (basically an alan wrench) that you need to turn every couple of days to lengthen the bar and expand the width of your jaw.
The important thing is that this is supposed to be installed BEFORE the bones in that part of your head have completly fused. MY ORTHODONIST FORGOT HOW OLD I WAS. I had it installed when I was about 15 or 16. It was INCREDIBLY painful. I remember one night after turning the key, I heard a very loud “POP” in my head. THAT WAS LITERALLY THE SOUND OF MY HEADBONES BREAKING.
At my next appointment, I told my orthodonist about what had happened and how much pain I was in. He kind of laughed and said, “Oh yeah, I forgot how old you were. I should have installed that earlier.”
I have NEVER seen my mom so mad at anyone. This was a while ago, but I’m pretty sure I remember that she looked into filing a lawsuit against him.
I currently have some terrible dental problems still. I need ALL of my wisdom teeth extracted and probably also the molars next to them. My wisdom teeth in my lower jaw are *literally* crumbling. I am not kidding. I occassionally spit out pieces of broken teeth. (YES, I’m aware this is nightmare fuel!) And the holes in my teeth are black, which I know is NOT A GOOD THING. The reason why this happened is not poor dental hygiene (I brush and floss EVERY DAY) but rather my small jaw again. When my wisdom teeth came in there was not enough room in my jaw for them. So they are crammed up against my molars and semi-impacted. Despite my daily flossing, food got caught there and the wisdom teeth started to decay. Hence the crumbling and decaying teeth. 🙁
The reason why I’m putting off taking care of this (and YES, I know that is NOT a good idea) is because I will have to go through oral surgery at least twice (my dental clinic says they can’t extract all the teeth at once) AND I’m on blood thinner. That means that before I undergo oral surgery I have to go off my blood thinner and give myself a series of shots in my stomach (of a different blood thinner) over a couple of days. AND the recovery period for this degree of oral surgery is a couple of days. Right now things have gone into overdrive at my work and I can’t afford to take off that long. I also have to mention that I had to do the blood thinner shots when I broke my wrist and when I had a root canal. THEY HURT. 🙁
Um…I’m going to go brush my teeth again now.
Oof, that is rough, *all the gentle hugs offered* for dealing with all that.
oh god. …oh dear god that escalated quickly. what a complete asshole – “whoops, I broke your skull, silly me” 😛
…and wow, yeah, that second part deserves a trigger warning. *hugs* my worst tooth problem at the moment is that a filling broke just as my dentist closed for the thanksgiving long weekend, so it’ll have a bit of extra decay before they can get me in. (last time that happened – why do they always break during holidays? – I apparently just barely avoided needing a root canal.)
Now I don’t feel so bad about how my own orthodontic treatment ended… I had a thing at a similar age that was supposed to.. pull my top jaw inwards, iirc, so they could start putting braces on the bottom teeth… I only had to wear it at night, but after a couple of nights of crying and, iirc, not being able to sleep at all until I gave up and took it off several hours later, I decided I just couldn’t handle the pain, and so they just stopped all the orthodontic treatment, I got a retainer, and the bottom teeth just stayed a mess.
…but I could have a lot of the details wrong by now, I think I’m mixing it up with the time I was put on ritalin but my mother had me taking it at night instead of in the morning. 😛
Yeah, I really should have included a warning. It is probably a Very Bad Thing that I’m so used to my current dental problems that I’ve gotten kind of blase about them. 😕
Did you have a headgear? That is what you’re descibing sounds like to me. The really bad part about my orthodontist is that at the time he was the BEST orthodontist in our area – and he still messed up that badly. Teeth problems tend to run in my family. My mom had very bad teeth but her parents wouldn’t pay for any kind of dental care for her (she comes from an INCREDIBLY abusive family). My youngest sister had more teeth problems than me and has a number of dental implants. My middle sister has good teeth – I’m hoping my niece (her daughter) has inherited that sister’s good dental luck! I’m a little worried; my niece is 3 1/2 and she already has a couple of cavities. (And she DOESN’T have a big sweet tooth.) My sister took her to a dentist that sealed the cavities with silver diamine flouride. My niece still has her baby teeth so the dentist said it wasn’t really worth the money to fill them, especially because they don’t hurt. But I know that uneven enamel is hereditary, so I just hope that my niece won’t have to go through the dental H3LL that I have and am!
Wait, how was she “Mike in the last universe”? So confused. Also, what’s an NRE?
When people were hating on her based on early appearances, Willis came forward to say she was literally saying the same things that Mike would in Walkyverse who was his most popular character and that he was writing her dialogue and character with that process.
And NRE stands for New Relationship Energy which is basically the way one’s brain feels early on in a relationship ignoring any incompatibilities because the chemistry is strong and everything is fresh.
Specifically the It’s Walky era Mike which….eek.
Yeah, like, in his universe it was pretty bad, but remove that and put it in a more realistic environment and it gets deeply deeply uncomfortable as we’re seeing with actual Mike in this universe.
And of course the real world context only makes that worse.
Panels 1-2: Ugh, I’m going to do that thing I always do where I ramble about personal life that resonates so apologies.
My recent ex was a breath of fresh air in a lot of ways, because they gave me a lot of license to hold ownership over negative emotions. To show anger and frustration at mistreatment, to show fear and panic and sadness over scary shit happening, and to truly exult and nerd out about things.
That experience was novel to me and thus electrifying and allowed me to follow my NRE down a really bad rabbit hole.
Anna feels like she is creating that space here for Leslie. Like, Leslie does not have space much in her life to really express the well of anger and frustration she has about all the bullshit she has had to survive in life.
She doesn’t seem to have close activist friends she can vent to. Her coworkers make fun of her various crushes, her family is awful, and she often gravitates into caretaker roles where she has to downplay her experiences.
Like, look at the way she described her trauma for the class. I know that style well, I’ve done a version of it, sanitizing all the bits, only connecting the relevant bits to the lesson at hand, moving on without emotion. It’s how you disclose as a professional.
And with Becky, she’s not in a dynamic she can really rant about the shit she’s been through because she’s essentially in a mother role.
Anna allows that expression of anger and frustration, encourages it, seems to reflect a chemistry back in sharing that upset. I get the attraction of that, because it’s the exact traits that so enamored me with my ex and that space to really be flawed and full of emotions and even bitterness about wrongs can be very valuable and psychologically freeing as easily as it can be a trap for toxicity.
I hope Anna does not do what my ex did with the traumas I shared. I hope she’s better than many of us are terrified she will be. But I fully understand why Leslie is so hungry for this.
“I’m going to do that thing I always do…”
where you tell us compelling stories from your own life that make the comic feel even more… uh… feelings-y? 🙂 yay storytime! (although I feel a bit odd about enjoying something that has so much suffering in it… to paraphrase Pearl, it’s the one good thing that comes out of all these painful experiences)
and yeah, venting about shit can be fun and cathartic… and can also turn into something not-so-great…
Thanks *hugs offered*
*hugs* 🙂
HUGS FOR ALL! 😆
But more seriously, like Inahc, I *really* enjoy your posts, Cerberus. 😊
I also have to chime in as an activist and an academic. Right now I have almost NO friends. I have colleagues. Yes, you form emotional bonds with your fellow protesters and your fellow professors. But these bonds are based around some very specific qualities and events and are also sometimes kind of “artificial.” For example, I went to the Women’s March on DC with other people from my union. But just because we were marching next to each other didn’t mean that we actually had much in common besides a belief in feminism and not liking Trump. I really understand Leslie’s loneliness. On one hand, I see some of the other people in my academic department more than I see my partner and my family. But we don’t really hang out together outside of work. I feel like there is an unspoken climate in academia in which we don’t want to be anything other than “professional” (as in, not going out drinking with or just socially hanging out with) our “work friends.”
My last relationship before the one I’m currently in kind of spectacularly exploded (long story for a different time), but I DID learn a lot from it. I’m glad that you are out of what sounds like a not-totally-affirming relationship and are recognizing what you’ve learned from your ex. 😊
All of this resonates really deeply with me.
It feels really strange, to have so many, many “friends” but at the same time be so lonely. I mean, I’m happy that I have friends and that all of them are good people, but they seem to care about how I can help them more than they care about me. None of them share any of my interests, and the most engaging conversations I’ve had with them are about how to answer a question, what they should do in this situation, and what are the answers to a question. Because of this, I feel as if the only reason they’re friends with me is because I can help them in school. Like, I know they’ll have my back, but all the same its still depressing to know that they only consider me a walking answer machine.
Panels 3-4: This is such a nice good flirting moment. A casual request. Leslie fully accepting the no response and while disappointed, not letting that disappointment bleed into any form of social pressure. Even an apology in case she was offended, which I don’t think would have been likely even without the panel 5.
When certain spree harassers argue that “it’s impossible to ask people out respectfully”, this is the proof that undermines that crap completely. This is a totally neutral way to do it. It’s not in a place with a position of power or reduced means of escape. It’s not hanging on their request and making it into a big social mess. It’s not dumping the feelings and expecting them to carefully navigate their way out.
Coffee and a casual acceptance of no. It’s solid.
Panel 5: This panel worries me a lot and is giving me some nasty flashbacks. Which like with all of this I fully recognize and own is likely coloring my responses and why I’ve been a little slow with my responses of late.
Like, my ex-fiancee pulled shit like this all the time. Creating weird unnecessary moments where I felt I was fucking up and then “funnily” coming in with a follow-up that made me feel grateful they were “putting up with me”.
Like, there’s not many natural reasons for Anna to phrase things this way. If her earnest desire is to communicate “I’m interested, but I’m not interested in coffee” there’s a lot of ways to do that.
But Anna doesn’t. Anna goes out of her way to create a moment of Leslie feeling dumb and silly for thinking there was chemistry and for her to beat herself up, and then posits a situation wherein Anna gets to look like the “better behaving” partner in what would be their literal first date.
That feels very strongly like someone actively trying to create a power dynamic… like a partner who keeps making minor negative comments every time they come over so you were always panicking before dates on “your turf” and finding it “easier” to always have dates on their turf to which they regularly kept you waiting outside for upwards of 20 minutes… to use a totally neutral and not at all personal example… yeah, it’s been a trip really picking through shit…
And on a more neutral level, it feels like someone avoiding any position of vulnerability. Saying “I’m interested, but not for coffee” creates a potential vulnerability. it’s asking for an accommodation request and puts her in the asking party and it’s very clear from her interactions with Mindy and Leslie that she is way more comfortable in the being wanted and being asked position where she has more direct control over the situations at hand.
And that again, could be a mask out of fear of being truly vulnerable and letting her heart get broken… but it can also be a really bad sign of someone who will find it easier to put their loved ones in a shittier situation just to avoid being “vulnerable”.
I hope for the best with Anna, but she’s raising a fuckton of red flags for me given my recent experiences that hit a little scarily close to home.
and Leslie’s probably feeling bad about her teeth now, too. I didn’t even pick up on that neg until I was reading your comment.
whether Anna’s doing it out of her own insecurity, oblivious habit, or bad intentions, it’s still an unhealthy pattern.
I’ve done something similar to what Anna did around the final panel, but the way I would employ it would probably raise way fewer red flags when you consider from an outside perspective my attitude is probably more akin to Mindy’s. While my bleeding heart would love to say Anna is merely trying to tickle the conversational funny bone, I have to say I can’t help but feel a wee bit nervous.
Like, independently it’s a quirky way of flirting. With everything else though, it’s a bit worrying… at least for me.
It really could have just been her first reaction to coffee. Idk if it’s ASD related but when people ask me “hey, do you wanna help me with ____” I often find myself responding with a blunt “No” before realizing that of course that’s going to hurt their feelings–when what I am actually thinking is “No, of course I don’t WANT to help you with that menial task any more than you want to do it by yourself, because that task is boring, but I would certainly be willing to help you if you asked directly because you’re my friend.”
I know that’s probably not where Anna is coming from here and I am so sorry for your own experiences with that 🙁 However, it didn’t strike me as a moment that could be interpreted as deliberate until after I thought about it for a little while so as always I thank you for your own insight into life experiences with people acting in ways that seem familiar.
I wonder if we’ll ever see an anti-Joyce arc with Leslie. Basically, Joyce becomes more open about religion and questioning. I wonder if the same will happen with Leslie in reverse–not that she will change her beliefs but become less angry about how it was involved in her parents abuse.
We had a bit of it with Historical Jesus and her coming to terms with one another.
Eh, probably not, as even positive experiences would be unable to make up for the sheer horrific treatment she’s received from her coming out to her present way of living a decent Princess Leia blessed life.
A molar began giving me trouble, so I went to my dentist. Who was on vacation. Dr. Slaughter (real name) was filling in. I had a choice between a root canal or an extraction. I wanted time to think it over. So Dr. S. prescribed an antibiotic. The tooth calmed down, and when I went back to my regular dentist, she suggested a ‘sedative filling’, since there didn’t seem to be signs of an active infection. So far, so good. Yay!