This week in Welcome To The Fuck Zone is Ethan! Ethan… and a booklet of some sort. Huh. If you’re a Slipshine member, you can pop right on over.
Discussion (595) ¬
[ Comments RSS ]
This week in Welcome To The Fuck Zone is Ethan! Ethan… and a booklet of some sort. Huh. If you’re a Slipshine member, you can pop right on over.
Loading ...
nice guy
needs more of this tho
You can’t punch an old man in the face though. He’d die of a heart attack or stroke and Ruth or Billie would go to jail on murder charges.
depends on the old man
I bet Henry Rollins could take one to the face and break your fist in the process
I remember discussing with siblings, How do I handle my father
“Well you can’t hit him. He has a heart condition. If anything happens, you’d never forgive yourself. And none of the family would ever speak to you again.”
“I think he knows that. That could be why he shouts “HIT ME” as soon as we get into an argument…”
Ps people find it REALLY easy to say “you’ll never forgive yourself”. People that say that lack imagination.
Independent of most other factors, if somebody is escalating an altercation by demanding that you hit them, you should probably take their word for it that it’s what they actually want. It’s an insidious control mechanism and we shouldn’t stand for it.
In fairness, you really shouldn’t engage in domestic battery just kind of as a general principle unrelated to conflict resolution strategy and whether or not the victim is physically frail or whether he’s being a dick.
Just, y’know… rule of thumb. “She was asking for it” is not a defense known for playing well in court for domestic violence cases.
Thanks, I needed that,
it just occurred to me that i could paint my nails and watch richard spencer get beaten up at the same time
thank you so much for this
Wait, so violence is ok as long as it’s the “good” kind?
Um, yeah? That’s pretty clear and obvious.
The debate is over what the “good” kind actually is.
Punching fascists counts in my book.
Spoken like a true fascist…
lmao
trust me, it’s the good kind when the people you’re punching are white supremacists
That’s okay. The fascists really like pacifists.
Make no mistake–I am not a pacifist. But the only acceptable violence is that prescribed by law in a free society, not some fascist deciding to punch another fascist because they disagree on the specifics of their fascism…
Ah yes, the old ‘punching someone in the face for advocating genocide makes you JUST AS MUCH a fascist as they are’ bullshit.
Ah yes, the old ‘I’ll insert some words in your argument so it’s the one I have an answer for’ bullshit.
BBCC pretty much quoted your directly, hon.
No ‘hon’, they didn’t. Their addition is in all caps for your convenience, too.
“the only acceptable violence is that prescribed by law in a free society”? Really?
This has been pointed out so many times, but this all depends on your definition of “law” and “free society” (and “violence”). The Holocaust was prescribed by law. Not in a free society, but in a society that had significant democratic support for the government carrying it out. The police violence against Civil Rights activists was prescribed by law, while the sit-ins themselves were illegal. That also wasn’t in a free society, but the thing is, many of the white people who opposed the Civil Rights movement genuinely believed it was, and that “separate but equal” was a legitimate counterargument to the movement. They got to define “free society,” and they got to prescribe the violence.
Fred Hampton was murdered in his bed by the FBI in the 1970s — that was prescribed by law, while the Black Panthers who carried weapons for self-defense against police officers were sent to prison and killed (where were the Second Amendment folks then?) The Philadelphia police used a helicopter to bomb the black liberation/anarchist group MOVE’s headquarters in the 1980s, killing 11, including five children. That was prescribed by law. Probably a majority of Americans believed they were living in a free society at the time — it was under Reagan. So, given that that society believed it was a free society and that the bombing was prescribed by law, was that violence acceptable?
Who gets to decide when our society is free? Who gets to decide what violence is acceptable? Your oversimplified rule inevitably leads to standing by and watching as the force of law selectively crushes innocent people.
I’d like to point out that your argument only adds “and sometimes the violence allowed by law isn’t acceptable, either” to his point, in no way are you actually contradicting what he’s saying.
Pyrrhus, not really. Iforget was saying that ONLY state-sanctioned violence under a free society was acceptable. I’m contradicting that by saying (a) that that form of violence doesn’t necessarily exist in any persistently just form and is therefore a bad metric and (b) that extralegal violence can be as acceptable or possibly more acceptable than legal violence when the state is unjust in its application of violence, as in the case of self-defense against police.
But mostly I’m just pointing out that that statement is a wild oversimplification that ignores the reality of statehood, free-ness, and “just” violence.
Meta, your post is wonderful. We need more people who know about those events.
Glad it was appreciated 🙂
Also, your original comment said: “Wait, so violence is acceptable as long as it’s the ‘good’ kind?” Well, evidently you believe it is, as long as it’s your definition of “the ‘good’ kind.”
Which was pretty much my point in my initial response. Almost everyone agrees that “violence is acceptable as long as it’s the ‘good’ kind”. We just differ on “the good kind”.
Nazis think violence against Jews (and homosexuals and many others) is “the good kind”. Other groups may have other targets that are always acceptable – plenty on non-fascist gay bashing or racial or sexual violence.
Some think that violence against those advocating such use of violence is acceptable, rather than always waiting until the advocates are actually in the middle of such violence.
Note that doesn’t make them fascists under any vaguely useful definition of the term. It does mean something other than “person I disagree with”.
Yes, thank you– I should have said extralegal violence. Way to get bogged down in the details though, this was literally someone wanting to haul off and punch someone because of what they said. No, just no. There is, thankfully, a law against hate speech so it’s not like there is no recourse if that is your issue. I’m not saying I want to enable this guy to spout whatever crap he may be spouting. But in my opinion the guy who punched him should be charged with assault. Bringing up Nazi Germany as a counterexample of legal violence is textbook Godwin’s law by the way, wtg…
I think Godwin’s Law is kind of suspended when you’re talking about facism.
For obvious reasons.
Mind you, I also think the guy who punched him should be charged. I also think punching Nazis is a good thing. It’s like some kinds of protest. Breaking the law can be the right thing to do.
I didn’t compare you (or the United States) to Hitler, I was borrowing MLK’s argument from ‘Letter from a Birmingham Jail’:
“We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was ‘legal’ and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was ‘illegal.’ It was “illegal” to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler’s Germany.”
And as thejeff points out, that example is legitimate when you’re talking about the legality of state violence, especially state violence under fascism.
I didn’t get bogged down in the details — my argument wasn’t intended as a defense of punching Richard Spencer. It was a criticism of your simplistic definition of moral violence.
Right, because nazi Germany is the first thing that comes to mind when someone says free society. Yes the definition is simplistic, this is a webcomic comments thread. If you want to be disingenuous, that’s your prerogative
Law? Free society? What is that? Does it exist in a country famous for it’s police’s brutality who invaded two Middle Eastern countries while having NO approval from international community?
Law is an Illusion. It is a chain we humans have forged for ourselves to limit the amount of violence we engage in. But make no mistake, as soon as things start to go to hell that illusion disappears and people get violent. And this illusion only applies to those who cannot get away with their actions.
Fascists like being punched? Okay.
Do you just not know what it means? Words mean things.
Checked with my 92 year old mom. Punching Nazis is OK with her. Pretty sure the Pope would forgive it too.
Hey if you’re advocating murder and genocide, there’s a non-zero chance of being punched in the face.
It’s a useful societal feedback mechanism.
“Violence just begets more violence!”
Yes, exactly. That is a factual description of what happened.
A+ parenting skills. Probably unrelated to any good traits Ruth and Howard might have picked up.
He’s just a hughes pile o’ shit.
and yet, know ruth as a nutral witness to his shit, go to the dean and get him banned from campus, and howard away from him
How?
they could have other family he can stay with. o placed with someone ruth trust, if sirs removed from care ruths the (only as of know right now) guardian and she’d have a say in that kind of thing.
They don’t have any other family, and it doesn’t seem like Ruth knows anyone except other students.
There are means, emancipation for one and she’s also a legal adult so that leaves even more potential options.
But it wouldn’t be easy. And “sir” would likely exploit every thing he could to punish her for such “disobedience”.
Restraining order.
The big thing is financial independence. I don’t think Ruth has it, there’s no way Howard does, and absent that their options for cutting him completely out of their life are, basically, all shit too.
Welfare, their both old enough to get jobs, fundraiser websites.
That’s not financial independence until it actually materializes, chief.
You might be overestimating how much aid welfare actually provides. It’s not really anywhere near enough to survive on and there’s all sorts of limitations especially in a state like Indiana.
And until you get to a desperation point, it’s a hell of a thing to trust in fundraiser sites and “maybe we’ll get jobs”. Like I took that risk of potential homelessness, but I got to my “fuck it” point. I’m not fully sure Ruth is there yet despite all the horribleness she is enduring.
Let’s also not forget the twenty-five thousand per year for tuition, either, and the options for dealing with that with no income are also all terrible.
ya’ll forget that they are Canadian, so non of this applies
@spam: Are they? I know they were raised there, but they’re very likely US citizens as well.
And I suspect that taking a minor from his legal (US) guardian and fleeing the country is even more legally fraught than other options.
spam- But they’re not. Or rather, they might still have their Canadian citizenship, but at least Howard’s legal guardian is American which roots at least him in the US for a bit unless they can emancipate him. And given “sir’s” controlling nature, I wouldn’t be surprised if he actively took the time to make it difficult for either of them to just go back to Canada, especially Ruth as she sees it as her real home.
@spam: As they reside in the U.S., I’m curious as to how you think Ruth and Howard’s Canadian citizenship is relevant.
@Cerberus: If were Canadian citizens in the first place (which they would be if they were born in Canada, or had a Canadian parent, so, yes), they’ll still have their Canadian citizenship. None of the ways in which it can be lost are at all applicable here. Naturalizing to a foreign country ceased to be a reason to lose it in 1977 and those who had lost it by doing so had it restored in 2009; loss by second-generation-by-descent Canadians failing to apply for retention also stopped in 2009, and only kicked in at 28 years of age anyway; and there’s no way whatsoever Clint has the necessary pull to have gotten the cabinet Minister responsible to pull it on grounds of treason, terrorism, or fraud.
I mean I guess there’s also renunciation, but Howard doesn’t qualify for that. Ruth might, but she’d have to be a U.S. citizen (do we know if she is?), and it’s not something Clint could do on her behalf.
foamy- Thank you for that. I wasn’t sure what the exact state of Canadian citizenship was and if it was possible to lose it like other citizenships. The legal guardian issue is definitely still a tie cause there’s rules blocking someone from fleeing the country with the legal dependents of another person, but it’s nice to know that one day if they can get free, they can reconnect with Canada if they want and benefit from a much lesser punitive system than America.
All I did was check the wiki article to confirm the specifics :v
This whole TheAnonymousGuy thread is an exercise in “why don’t the victims of abuse just leave???” mate, it is not that simple, it is never that simple. If someone you know is ever being abused and you’re in a position to talk to them about it, please don’t just run down this sort of list of stuff off the top of your head without putting any thought into the obstacles that a victim, especially one who is suffering a couple of crushing mental health conditions as a result of the abuse, is dealing with. It’s not cool, and it will make them less likely to talk to you again even if they feel they’re in danger.
@TheAnonymousGuy: report him for what? For something that is, in isolation, little more than an obnoxious comment. You don’t lose custody for something like that.
Especially if you’re as connected and influential as Clint appears to be.
“Sir” can go sit in a cactus patch.
He should run into a train and step on all the legos.
I don’t care that he’s a handicapped veteran, I want to punch that asshole in the face so much.
Ha!
I once dated someone whose father years ago drove drunk, killed his brother, and was seriously injured in the accident. He never did any of the physical therapy recommended and has lost mobility thereby, and talks long shit to EVERYONE. His disabilities are a shield against those he provokes.
I don’t think he has really been in a physical altercation since the accident stopped his physical abuse of his wife.
Fought a war, did he? On whose side?
The side that won, THE SIDE that WON.
For a certain definition of “victory” which ignores the consequences of your country’s action once the conflict is over, or that you barely achieved anything except for killing countless civilians and giving a whole generation PSTD, sure.
Scene from Preacher (the comic) keeps looping through my head:
Bodyguard: SON OF A bongo, HE’S SEVENTY-FIVE YEARS OLD!
Jesse Custer: That’s okay…
(punches bodyguard)
… I hit YOUNG fucks, too.
We have met the source of her mental health issues.
And it is GIGANTIC.
cask of amontillado feels appropriate right now
For the love of Cheese, Montresor!
Yes, for the love of cheese.
And that is why threatening someone with “a death that Edgar Allan Poe wrote” is so fun. The variety. Sealing someone in brick is such a fun, interesting demise to inflict.
. . . Am I a sociopath?
Yes, yes you are.
But you are the kind of sociopath whose company I enjoy!
Incidentally, how do you feel about houses with wooden floors?
Depends on how soundproof the floors are.
fun fact: i wrote a terrible paper on the masque of the red death and color symbolism for a class.
Asma’s face speaks for us all.
Yeah, she mirrors my expression almost perfectly, but mine is more angry.
I thought she was Ryan again for a moment!
o_O
In the comments, and beyond.
I just find myself glad that _someone_ witnessed Ruth’s grandfather being a shithead to her, rather than just the “stern but charming” persona he puts on for everyone else.
Ruth turn around and remember Asma’s face so there will be no doubt in your mind that what he just said was deeply fucked up.
(If she’s like me sometimes you do need outside confirmation because you just can’t tell anymore.)
Especially since we know she’s already conflicted about that very thing – it came up long ago, while they were hiding from firemen, I think.
Of course, brains lie: it’s quite possible she could read Asma’s look of horror as directed at her.
Gonna be interesting to see what the receptionist’s reaction will be.
Asma: YOU DATED A DRUNK DRIVER!?
Nope. Sorry, I can’t even make that joke.
How did he even GET confidential information like that?
(first guess: starts with “p” and rhymes with “uddinghead”)
A drunk driving conviction is not exactly confidential information.
It is if they were a minor at the time.
Also if you’re a fucking student at a university. Do you think university employees with access to confidential information can just give it out to whoever? Particularly people who aren’t family of the student?
They can if, like Chloe, they’re shit at their jobs.
There are a lot of things a university might do (or choose not to do) if one waves a stack of money in front of them.
Most HS seniors have reached 18 years of age by graduation (there are the occasional outliers, like myself). And didn’t Billie’s DUI supposedly happen between her HS graduation and entering IU? So even though legal age to consume alcohol is 21, she would have reached the age of majority at 18 and was therefore no longer a minor — therefore her DUI could have very easily ended up in the local newspaper’s ‘court records’ section.
So if Clint knew Billie’s name and hometown — and he could have easily gotten that from the student directory on Asma’s desk — five minutes (or less) with Google would have given him all the information he needed with no violation of “minor’s privacy” necessary.
Possibly but I think the much likelier scenario is that Chloe just told him while he was talking to her about getting Billie moved as soon as possible.
She clearly has no issue with just dropping students personal information all over the place: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/flashpoints/
Maybe, but I think his connection is somewhere higher in the university. HE stalked off after the confrontation with Billie. I suspect it was then he went to find out more about her and he wasn’t going back in to talk to Chloe.
Agreed. Billie’s DUI was during, not after high school (funny thing about getting a DUI, they won’t let you be a cheerleader anymore). So she was likely a minor. And yeah, my money’s on puddinghead giving him information he has no right to.
Billie was referring to the university cheerleading squad (she lost her place on after the DUI). I believe it was during the summer, so probably not a minor.
I remember thinking it was the high school squad, but I can’t find the strip now. Do you have a reference?
She was definitely never actually on the university squad, but I suppose she could been offered a spot right out of school, then lost the offer after the DUI.
It was in Answers in Hennessy. When Billie and Ruth were hiding from the firemen and Billie was spilling her guts, she said that after she got the DUI, the Cardinal Squad (the university squad) ‘was all ‘thanks, but no thanks”. They had a wholesome image to keep up, apparently.
Remember the time she was concerned about Ruth being passed out and unresponsive in her room, so she pulls a false fire alarm as a distraction so she can kick in the door? Once she gets inside, she tells Ruth the story — “Senior year ended, there was a party, and I was drunker than I thought, and so I put our SUV in a tree. After that, the Crimson Squad (nickname of the all-female IU cheerleaders squad, as opposed to the co-ed Cream Squad) was all thanks but no thanks. ‘Wholesome image’ and all that.” — while they’re hiding in the half-bath.
Boogered up the link … try this one instead.
Fair enough. Thanks.
Not even when you are not of age?
Did they let him snoop in college files?
The conviction mightn’t be confidential, but her name sure as hell isn’t information Spacewaste is entitled to.
Every state has online court records. If there’s a conviction, there’s a public record. Employers use them all the time. Some go all the way down to seat belt violations, but drunk driving qualifies everywhere. Being a minor would be her only shield and it seems like it wasn’t.
She’s an adult, so the records wouldn’t be sealed.
So… five seconds putting the name into google on his phone after meeting the girl, probably.
Well, maybe Asma’s in a position to do something… wait, no, she’s a student too. We’re all fucked.
She’s in a position to tell literally every single human being in that building, however. Which might improve Ruth’s situation amongst her peers.
Or worsen it.
Granted, Ruth might not want her to do that.
Oh, she’s a student? I’ve always assumed she was a college employee.
Technically Ruth is both, no reason Asma can’t be, too.
She’s both, it was revealed in one of the Patreon strips I believe?
Student with a part time job at the school is most likely.
Supposing Asma tells an official, and supposing the college for once decides to bother doing something that benefits the wellbeing of their student, what exactly are they supposed to do?
The information they have is insufficient to generate criminal charges against Clint. They have no control over how Clint treats Howard at all, and all they can do regarding Clint and Ruth is ban Clint from campus, which will do nothing but leave Howard the sole target of Clint’s abuse.
The college aren’t the police, and even if they were, the police have nothing to go on.
Her eyes to back to black pinpoints at the end.
asma please talk to her
Clint really is such a scumbag. It’s kinda telling as to how good Willis is at making this comic that he can have him be a flavor of abusive that is still different from Blaine and Ross and Walky’s Mom. (Not saying that what she has done is going to compare to those two, but she and Joyce’s moms are certainly not healthy, either. Or Ethan’s for that matter. Man, this comic is equal opportunity for abusers)
Am I wrong for feeling more empathy for the abusive parents than I do for the victimized children?
What? Yes!
(Dr_Gonzo finds an assault victim on the sidewalk)
The person that did this needs help!
Well, possibly in a less immediate sense, but that’s hardly the point given that given situation.
Why though? Like I can’t understand looking at this comment and feeling worse for Clint than Ruth. I can’t understand it
I wouldn’t say worse. His anger and bitterness is certainly misplaced. There’s also a lot that we still don’t know about Clint, Ruth, her parents et.al. I dunno. I guess I feel get so much of the protagonists’ perspectives I kind of want to see more of the bastards of DOA.
Yes.
But sadly, it would keep you with the majority of Americans.
People loathe survivors and victims and herald and cheer bullies and abusers. Look no further for proof than the veneration and free passes our current fuhrer gets for all his regularly demonstrated abusive vileness.
True but often the line between victims and perpetrators can be razor thin.
are you sure about that buddy? this comic alone has several examples of very clearly defined abusers and victims
This one is pretty god damn wide.
Ruth may be far from perfect, but nothing justifies treating someone this way, especially not your own grandchildren
A thin line is still a line.
You are probably a generally good person, which is probably why you asked, but believe me, abusive parents do not deserve your sympathy or empathy more than their victims do.
They have likely never experienced abuse themselves (over 80% haven’t, and note, the abuse rate of the general population is about 21% when you average the average male and female rates together so they are no more likely to have experienced it than anyone else), they likely do not have a mental illness or disorder (less than 1% do and there is no trend of a particular one in those that do), it is likely not an emotional intensity or control problem (people with borderline personality disorder feel emotions more intensely than anyone but there is no trend of BPD causing abusive behaviour and as already stated, very few abusers have mental disorders), it is not an alcohol or drugs problem (they add to the severity of the existing abuse problem, they are not a root cause as treatment does not lead to the abusive behaviour stopping).*
Even abusers that have dealt with a myriad of bad things do not deserve your sympathy more than their victims because they will never do something that goes against their own moral code. They will only do things they feel justified in doing – even if they hide it from the public eye, that is more because they know others won’t approve, rather than feeling that it is actually wrong to do. So not only does Clint feel like this is perfectly acceptable to do, he feels so confident that no one will stop him that he is doing it openly in front of someone else.
*The things I brought up here are common excuses abusers use that have deeply been ingrained into society as reasons why someone would be abusive but these are often lies and excuses just so people will not hold them accountable for their actions. Abuse is caused by an abusive way of thinking combined with a sense of entitlement and a lack of respect for the person/people they harm – they wouldn’t say or do these things to people they actually respect even when angry or upset with them which is easily noted in how many abusers would glare at you for asking why they haven’t called their own mother a bongo despite thinking it because ‘you don’t DO that to your MOTHER’ even when they may be perfectly willing to do so to their spouse or children without a second thought.
The issue is that it’s such a common trope in fiction for there to be some real, tragic reason for someone to behave like that. Every damn high school bully seems to be written as having an abusive dad, which is supposed to excuse all the horrible things (including attempted fucking murder) that they do. It’s bullshit. Most of the time, people bully or abuse because they are FUCKING HORRIBLE PEOPLE.
My favorite bully in literature is Henry Bowers from IT. His father was an abusive asshole too, but the novel makes it clear Bowers is a fucking sociopath himself with no redeeming qualities of any kind.
Okay, yeah, this. This is a way better answer that folds in a lot of the current research on the topic.
THIS.
Seriously, even if people have had crappy things happen to them, that is not an excuse. A bully with an abusive parent is still a bully, and they still need to own up to that, stop being a bully, and seek help. It’s not a free pass to bully everyone else.
Um hey Dr_Gonzo do you realize that comments/sentiments like that one are a huge part of why abusers get away with it? Because they are.
Personal Story Time:
Shortly after I was diagnosed with autism a child my parents sent me to a Special Ed school. A school which turned out to be horribly abusive. A kid i knew was dragged off the bus by his hair. Another was chocked into unconsciousness. I was forced to stand in front of the class until I wet myself as punishment for asking for a bathroom pass in a way that was not sufficiently submissive.
When I tell people about this place a significant portion of them express sympathy for the staff. Because it’s “so hard to deal with those kinds of kids” because “after dealing with screaming r*tards all day I’d be at the end of my rope too” because “after all, they were only trying to help you”.
That place is still open. These thing are happening to other children as I type this.
I wonder how much cultural sympathy for abusers has to do with that.
Hugs.
Thanks.
Secret horrible truth, all people are people, and its possible to feel sympathy for a person’s problems while also despising everything else about them.
Yes, I was thinking this too. It makes me wonder just how broad Willis’ experience with horrible people is!
So he insults her parents pretty consistently, at least in front of her, then claims that SHE doesn’t care about them.
Alright then.
If there was doubt in my mind before, there’s none now.
Clint is the biggest asshole Dad yet.
(Also, dat Slipshine!)
Yup. It’s all just weapons to him.
Second biggest.
He hasn’t chased anyone with a rifle on-panel yet. And at least he doesn’t seem to have a problem with Ruth being a lesbian/bi so much as her choice of girlfriend.
Honestly, I still hate Sir more.
But I can see why you’d disagree.
They are different kind of horriblesness, although I wouldn’t claim one is “worse” than the other.
It’s like trying to figure out whether it’s worse to die of bubonic plague or ebola. It’s kind of a no win situation.
Oh, I still hate him more, he’s just… not actively criminal in his assholery, and far as I’m concerned that bumps him down a slot.
Abuse is illegal. Abuser get away with it because children are considered property and nobody cares.
That doesn’t make them not criminal. And being not-criminal has no relation to those slots, anyway.
I mean, yesterday’s strip suggests he doesn’t approve of any of her partners, or her having a partner at all. Just because he’s not biphobic doesn’t mean he doesn’t still have a huge and damaging impact on her dating life.
Clint killed her parents for the life insurance money and inheritance didn’t he?
But little Ruth and Howard just had to survive
i feel like this was the plot of a sherlock holmes once
except he kept killing the daughters once they were going to get married
The Adventure of the Speckled Band.
yes!!!!!
that one was such a deliciously creepy one
Asma: AM I THE ONLY PERSON AT THIS SCHOOL WITHOUT A SHITTY FAMILY (that we know about) (I don’t imagine she’s met Dorothy’s family)
do you wanna be a background character? Cos that’s how you be a background character.
Winners in the “not shitty family” category so far are Dina, Dorothy, and Sierra.
Amber gets half a point because her mom’s okay (if a bit of a doormat).
The jury’s still out on the Warners; they invert the trend because Mike’s the shitty one.
Mike’s mom is secretly even worse than her son. She’s done things that would make your stomach turn. She made oatmeal raisin cookies without using cinnamon, one time, so you’d better watch out around her.
Did we meet Sierra’s family or has anything been said about them? If so I can’t remember.
I’m just curious about why you listed her specifically.
In their one appearance, Reno stopped Blaine while he was chasing after Amber.
See! Not shitty! That’s pretty good for the parents we’ve met so far.
Don’t forget Carla!
Will this finally see the rise of Asma as an important character?
Or the ONLY character! #AsmasAge.
We are all Asma.
I gotta say, while he’s a giant douche canoe, Clint’s got some background checking skills.
I don’t know if you’ve ever had a conviction on your record, but it’s pretty much the first thing that pops up when you google someone’s name even if you aren’t using one of the hundred thousand background-check websites out there.
At most, he’d have to figure out her last name by looking at the check-in sheet at the dorms.
To be honest, finding her name would likely be the hardest part – assuming he hadn’t already gotten it from Chloe or his other contacts. Running just off of “Billie”, even with a list of names “Jennifer Billingsworth” wouldn’t be obvious.
And “check-in sheet at the dorms”? I’ve never seen such a thing, or any evidence of one in the comic.
Students don’t have to check in, but usually visitors have to sign in and include who specifically they are visiting. This typically includes people from other dorms when the dorms aren’t co-ed, so it tends to be a fairly complete list unless they’re crazy religious about replacing it every day.
In the context of Willis writing a comic, he also went to school before the obsolescence of land-line phones, so there would be a directory of codes to call people’s room phones through the intercom. Generally the college takes steps to prevent random people from finding out a specific room number, but the existence of the student, their name, and that they live in the dorm is not protected information.
Though let’s be honest, if Willis decides to keep with the times and update to modern college life, you can just change my initial answer to “gramps has a facebook account, he already knows more about her girlfriend than most credit agencies”.
This dorm doesn’t seem to have a sign in sheet. The only thing stopping a random person from going up the elevator to their dorms is propriety. And the way to get from the boy’s wing to the girl’s wing is just walking down the hall. Security is not a big feature at this school.
I went to a religious school with ridiculous security and you could still get from the boys’ wing to the girls’ just by walking down the hall.
And that was only in the building with communal bathrooms. Wings were co-ed in the rest of the buildings (and the other half of that building, actually).
Fun fact: There was a dorm where male students technically weren’t allowed to have overnight guests. You’re only allowed to have overnight guests of your own gender, and that building (originally the women’s dorm when there weren’t that many female students) explicitly banned male overnight guests entirely.
The latter rule was not enforced, and I’m probably one of the few who realized it was still on the books because I noticed looking something else up.
Wow, he’s a real diplomat.
Ruth sure is lucky to such a great role model.
He does seem to be where she got a lot of her RA skills from, doesn’t he.
Way to sound like a super villian gramps.
So…did Chloe just tell Clint about Billie being a drunk driver? Did she just…give out her confidential information to this guy?
Probably. A good fake smile and making someone’s job “easier” goes a long way, especially if there was money involved in the process of giving Chloe less work to do by having her just sign off on keeping Ruth…
I think Clint took the time to look up something that was probably in the news archives, because he wanted to use it as a bludgeon against Ruth.
Billie was a minor at the time of her drunk driving conviction so had the story made the news I doubt her name would have been revealed. Also a drunk driving story where no one dies would hardly newsworthy and he doesn’t know Billie’s full name. So no, he wouldn’t have gotten this information searching any archive.
That’s not how juvie records work. They are public record unless you specifically petition the court to have them sealed, but since having a sealed juvenile record is in and of itself suspicious to potential employers, for something like a DUI it’s generally not done.
Even if the records are public I still don’t see how Clint would have been able to get this information without Chloe giving it to him. Are you telling me that he could somehow petition for the juvenile record of someone who is essentially a stranger to him? That there are no protections in place and that Billie’s family with all it’s wealth would not have ensured they were in place? Even id they’re not I don’t see how it would end up in the news if no one was hurt or how Clint not knowing Billies’ full name could just obtain this story even if it had.
Oh, Chloe definitely told him, the point is that while it might make her an asshole, it doesn’t actually violate any laws or regulations to disclose public information so given the amount of pull Clint seems to have with the school the odds of her facing repercussions is about zero.
It might not violate any laws but I’d be shocked if it didn’t violate university policy.
Disclosing info on _his_ ward doesn’t violate any laws. Disclosing info on another student actually does, in most states.
That said, the law is slow and extra blind in DoA so I would not expect that to be a plot point. If we were running on real-life laws and enforcement response toedad woulda been tackled and possibly shot within about thirty seconds of pulling the rifle, and Ruth would not only be fired, but on the sex offender registry (because most states go out of their way to specifically make an employee of a state-funded educational institution sleeping with someone directly under their authority statutory rape regardless of age of consent specifically to make sure people doing her exact thing don’t get away with it, though Indiana might be an exception).
Personally, I’m fine with this. In any story about children all adults must be absent, antagonists, or blindingly incompetent otherwise there’s no story.
Thinks about stories of mass shootings on campuses. Wonders how they happened when police apparently teleport in to guns being drawn within seconds. I think your opinion of police abilities might be slightly exaggerated.
Honestly, if he had been a typical shooter, their response wouldn’t have been bad. They were on scene at the fountain in a couple minutes – probably less from the first actual report called in. It’s just that he had Becky in the car driving away even faster.
Fuck, you’re right, she totally fucking did. Which… grr… as a teacher, this pisses me off. A good teacher does not release information about an at-risk kid to their own parents if needed to protect them, much less violate the privacy of another kid in casual conversation.
It might not break any laws. But it breaks ethics and this is the exact reason why. Because some abusive fuck can use that information as a weapon against the kid, putting them at risk. Pudding Head is the absolute fucking worst.
She needs to be fired asap.
In all the Clint awefulness, it’s “nice” to remember how much Chloe fudged up too. She gave “Sir” way, WAY more ammunition than he needed.
Although, to be fair, it could ALSO be her bosses who told Clint about Billie. He was away “putting out fires”, after all.
Yeah, I’m pretty much assuming it was her bosses. For all of Chloe’s problems, very little of this reads like her call – Clint went over her head and word came down from above. He probably went back up to his contacts after the confrontation with Billie.
Chloe telling him who Billie is — her identity, let’s set aside the conviction and let the creep that he is google for it — is not public information.
Here in NZ we’ve had privacy legislation in place for over 20 years that forbids exactly what she’s done.
NZ stands for New Zealand, correct? A few of my favorite bits of film have been shot there. So, how do you manage living in the same country that contains Moria? Are there signs put up around the place, or do people just know not to bother?
Moria’s fine, it’s those bloody giant weta from King Kong we’ve got to watch out for nowadays. The damn things are popping up everywhere now.
Man, that sounds rough. At least you’ve got several teams of Power Rangers to help keep the peace, though.
Also, public record means exactly that. Public. Anyone can look them up for any reason.
I know what public record means thanks.
Also my first comment you responded to was in reference to Billie’s name being revealed in a public news story that could just be looked up on google not her juvenile records.
My confusion is on Billie’s name being revealed in a new story. I had assumed that most states would have laws in place about revealing a minor’s name in a news story but apparently not?
They don’t. You can even name victims if you want, let alone offenders. The major news networks generally have policies to not name juvenile victims of serious crimes but it’s perfectly legal to do so. Juvenile offenders get no such deference.
Well that’s fucking shitty.
Apparently Sal’s name wasn’t disclosed on the news, so I’m gonna chalk that up to local policy.
It depends on the state. In mine, the name of the juvenile isn’t released unless they’re being tried as an adult.
Okay anyone know the policy in Indiana? Google’s not being very helpful.
Are juvenile proceedings and records confidential?
Proceedings in juvenile court can be closed to the public to protect the child from
undesired public scrutiny. If your child is charged with murder or an act that would be a
felony if committed by an adult, the judge must open the proceedings. If the allegations
or a defense to the allegations involve matters of a sexual nature, the judge can keep the
public out of the courtroom for the protection of a child witness or victim.
The law aims to avoid making juvenile offenders look bad by protecting their privacy.
COURT RECORDS are available, without a court order, only to:
• the court staff, including the judge;
• a party or the party’s attorney, (except when the judge has determined that you or
your child may not see all or part of a report);
• authorized representatives from the Department of Correction, and state or county
office of the department of child services;
• a parent in a divorce or custody proceeding that involves the child; or
• a judge or authorized staff member in a court that needs the information for a
presentence investigation in that court; and
• the prosecuting attorney or any authorized staff member.
Limited information, including the child’s name, is available to the public without a court
order when the child is:
• charged with an act that would be murder or a felony if committed by an adult; or
• twelve (12) years old or older and accused of committing two separate acts which
would be misdemeanors if committed by an adult; or
• under twelve (12) years old and accused of committing five (5) separate acts
which would be misdemeanors if committed by an adult.
If your child is found to be delinquent under the above circumstances, his photograph
may also be released to the public.
Source: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.youthlawteam.org/files/2010%2520Parent%27s%2520Handbook.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjWnbjv1_PTAhVM4yYKHWU8ChYQFggrMAQ&usg=AFQjCNGqI_sgZCGiQ8Hjc30CFoVNwXEM3w&sig2=2icTdLtHstr2AXMAFuYoYA
That’s a police department policy, not the law. The Supreme Court actually ruled on this, the media is allowed to report the names of juveniles as long as they didn’t get the info from a few specific banned sources.
Interesting note: Juvenile Justice in Indiana falls under the Dept. Of Corrections (DOC). In my state, it falls under Dept. Of Children’s Services (DCS). However, it was also DOC approx 20+ years ago. (Disclosure: Employee of DCS, formerly with juvenile justice.)
Which case do you mean? Because as of July 2015:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.in.gov/pac/files/Public_access_to_juvenile_records.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwio6c_82_PTAhVHZCYKHUQpAzQQFggcMAA&usg=AFQjCNFYEriTMeV4A3KmyuObSUmyLM7Ktw&sig2=9eI0TTzYqbqpOw1JENaMKA
It’s Smith v. Daily Mail, from 1999. The law you’re talking about only governs what the court and court officials can tell the public. It doesn’t cover what the media can report on. If they learn the name of an accused another way, (police scanner, asking witnesses/family members, etc.) they have a 1st Amendment right to report that information if they want to.
Is it confirmed Billie was a juvenile at the time of the crash?
From what I recall it sounded like that happened relatively late in her senior year of high school. It’s possible she was 18 at the time.
Which while it wouldn’t make any information given out by Puddinghead more acceptable, would make it easier for Asshole Gramps to find out about it by looking into Billie’s past (since in that case there isn’t any issue of her being a juvenile).
I think that’s the case in most states. I could be wrong but the only time I ever remember seeing or hearing the name of a juvenile defender was when they were being tried as an adult.
Also, for what it’s worth, I grew up with a large number of rich kids. A fair number of them were screw ups. A few of them, screwed up pretty royally. Once to the tune of putting a whole new drive through into a restaurant while drinking and driving underage. It made the paper, there were no actual fatalities, but several injuries. No names were mentioned in the paper. That was many years ago, but even if things have changed a great deal, that is something that money could probably still contain.
Don’t you remember her just listing off the dorm’s “flashpoints” to him and Ruth?
I’m sure her idea of confidentiality basically amounts to “not sharing gossip with the residents“. No wonder she never thought to even tell Ruth before inviting her family to come.
I’m guessing Clint told her the story of her parents which probably lead to her revealing Billie’s information.
She should be fucking fired.
Ugh, yeah. She just so casually gossips about students and which ones are at risk as if it is nothing, including hinting heavily at Carla’s gender identity which is something that could potentially get her killed or harassed if the wrong parent finds out and makes a stink.
Like “sir” is evil, but Chloe is the banality of evil and all the passive harm it can do.
It’s so terrifying how people can just so easily irrevocably damage other people’s lives just by not knowing when to shut the fuck up.
When did she hint about Carla’s gender identity? I’m genuinely curious.
It was very oblique but including her in a list of flashpoints invites way more scrutiny into why she would be included in the same category as a woman who embroiled the school in a sex scandal and a woman who was a major target of a school shooting.
And it’s no contest that her being trans and having parents willing to make noise on her behalf if the school gets antsy is what got her on that list.
Yeah! I also looked up the flashpoint comic and the most disturbing name drop Is Carla’s but I still really can’t believe she would just casually mention Joyce’s shooting and Roz’s sex tape like she did. Like I get that these scandals are things people know about but I still feel like it’s crossing a line to just bring them up like she is. She could have just said the flashpoints line without elaborating any further.
Wow. I can’t remember the comic you two are referencing, but I’ll look it up.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/flashpoints/
If only I had a emoji to Express exactly how I feel about this, oh wait I do- 🖕
I didn’t think it was possible, but I think Sir might be more than 1 amber’s dad units, because he’s done a hell of a lot of damage to presumably everyone around, possibly including the wife and daughter he has stopped considering as human beings and more as pedestals to objectify. This is mean, but I wish he had not been so fortunate in any past wars he fought in, handicapped veteran or not.
Tangentially related, if I’m not only the earliest war Clint could feasibly be a veteran of is probably Vietnam. If he’s in his 70s, he would’ve turned 18 right in the middle of that, but he’s definitely too young for WWII or Korea. Beyond Vietnam, there isn’t a major U.S. military operation until the Gulf War. It’s possible he participated in that, if he stuck with a military career, as he would’ve been in his early 40s then. Afghanistan and Iraq II he would’ve been far too old for active combat.
*if I’m not mistaken, damnit
For all we know he got injured during Reagan’s invasion of Grenada.
Isn’t Clint Canadian?
I mean, if so, he’s the worst Canadian EVER….
I was under the impression that Ruth’s mother had moved to Canada before marrying Ruth and Howard’s father. Ruth and Howard had to move to America after their parents died, heavily implying that Clint is actually American.
I don’t think so? As I understand it, Ruth & Howard had to move to the States to join him. I mean, there’s various other alternatives to explain it, but my money is on Clint being American.
Also, even if Clint were Canadian, this is wildly insufficient to qualify him as the worst Canadian ever. Leaving aside the fact that he literally does not exist, we’re seeing a small-scale, personally abusive dynamic to his family members.
Robert Pickton killed forty-nine women and fed them to his hogs.
No.
Why do people think this?
The entire point of things is they had to move to the US when their parents were killed and Clint ended up as their guardian.
In other words, he’s not Canadian.
Some people confuse Ruth and Clint being related with meaning they must have the same nationality.
I’ll definitely admit to having subconsciously done that, since I’ve always had it in the back of my mind that Clint is Canadian. However, given the evidence, I’ll excise that thought at this moment. Not as though it makes him any less of an abusive crap, of course
Maybe, but the U.S. losses in that were so minimal that that would be statistically unlikely.
Yeah, I’m just trying to go for some irony, like, he was the one guy who got shot in the foot or something in what wasn’t even a war in the first place (legally speaking, because congress did not declare war it was not a war).
He was fishing for his illicit bottle in the back of his filing cabinet back at REMF HQ when it overbalanced and toppled onto his foot.
If you’re going by formal declarations of war, the USA was never at war between the end of WW2 and the beginning of the Iraq war, and Vietnam War veterans don’t exist.
That actually includes the Iraq War. We haven’t declared war since WWII.
Yeah, but that’s a damn stupid definition.
Honestly, was Clint ever actually injured in a conflict? He has a cane, but I’m not sure if that’s just because of his age catching up to him, although he appears to be quite a strong man. It wouldn’t surprise me if he was involved in the Vietnam War, given the timeframe, and may have perhaps been injured there, although he could’ve also been in Grenada or Lebanon or Israel or somewhere in the Middle East during the 60s, 70s, or 80s, but simply may have avoided been injured by any means. Hell, he could’ve been involved in the failure of an attack that took place during the Iranian hostage crisis in an effort to free the hostages. Considering what he does these days, it would be intensely ironic.
But yeah, by definition of War as an act of approval from Congress, we haven’t declared war since WWII, as the President has claimed authority for that. Is that worrisome? With this president, yes.
Yep. Scariest damn thing that ever happened, and completely went against the system of checks and balances that is supposed to exist within the US government as defined by the constitution.
It’s a bit more complex than that. Congress never wants to be ‘the first congress to declare war since WW2’ so they often actually _do_ declare war, they just call it something else to try to weasel out of it.
Vietnam had the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, for instance, which was a de facto declaration of war.
Largely, the rest of the world was willing to put up with our nonsense on this one for most of a century, but eventually their patience cracked: the AUMF declaration (that authorized Iraq) is just outright considered a declaration of war by even most internal legal authorities.
Short version: the president still has to get a declaration of war from congress, checks and balances intact. Which is reeeeeeally kind of a relief right now.
As time marches on, the war he was involved with is gonna become more and more recent. So there’s no real point in trying to pin it down.
Isn’t DoA running on silver-age time, aka ‘whatever year makes this scene today work, that’s what year it is’?
He could be a veteran of the Boer war for all we know, or a reservist called into fifteen tours in iraq when he was already in his 50s, or anything between.
*plays Dire Straits’ “The Man’s Too Strong” on the hacked Muzak*
of course he wouldn’t leave without getting one last barb in, of course
Remember when we weren’t sure if Howard knew about the abuse? Good times.
After panel 2, Clint’s voice sounds like Darth Vader in my head. “You have failed me for the last time.”
his little wave kills me
When I said I hated this guy third most, that wasn’t a CHALLENGE Willis D: AUGH HE IS AWFUL
Asma remains awesome.
Well… that was brutal.
When was he diplomatic?!
You know, before. When he wasn’t using the death of his own daughter as a vicious weapon against his granddaughter.
In Clint terms, his ceasing diplomacy probably involves getting Billie expelled and/or jailed for her alcoholism, abusing Howard cause he knows it’ll get to Ruth, and somehow making Ruth’s occupation even shittier. Probably by hiring one of the floor residents (probably Mary because its Mary) to spy on Ruth constantly and report back to him if Ruth does anything that might make her happy so that he can put the brakes on that
It’s a certain type of abuser thing. Frame cruel violence as a kind restrained action so the person being abused trembles at fear at the idea of what could possibly be worse than what they are already getting. And make it more likely for the victim to blame themselves. After all, you “didn’t want to”, you were “pushed into it”, and you “tried to be nice”.
We always need more Asma and this is such a marvelous way for her to pop up.
That alt text is a thing of fucking beauty.
… I don’t get it.
I have literally scrolled through this whole comments section hoping that someone would explain the alt-text.
I should be commenting on all the dialogue that just happened, but I’m stuck looking at that alt text and going “huh?” while tilting my head to the side to see if the secret is reading it sideways.
Help?
Batman’s parents were killed by a gun and Batman regularly sleeps with Catwoman.
… so batman disapproves of Ruth because she is sleeping with a drunk driver. He, meanwhile, sleeps with someone who does not use guns.
So now I understand the joke… but still don’t get it.
he’s also sleeping with a criminal, which is what killed his parents
There’s probably the additional dimension that any Batman joke is automatically funny, because Batman can breathe in space. Willis formalized this law in webcomics.
Before anyone says Catwoman often uses a whip, while that is true, she will not hesitate to gun a threat down. Just ask Black Mask.
black mask had that shit coming for a loooong time
YEAH HE DID. But the point – that Catwoman will use a gun if she has to and it’s handy – stands.
“i don’t play by your rules, batman!” catwoman says as she throws herself out a window
but ye
Black Mask thoroughly had that coming.
oh my god like that dude. he just. would not stop being nasty and gross. and not even in a pulpy grimdark way? just in a boring rote way. like. atrocity after atrocity for shock value so people would be scared of him and it was just such a waste because it never made him any cooler, it just made him a guy with a black skull for a face and a thing for grisly murder. i dont know one thing about his personality and tbh im not sure there’s much to be known
but at least, like, selina and steph kind of have a relationship now
“For shock value” is the worst reason for a comic writer to do anything. It stops being shocking after a while, and even if it were, you have to cut off the possibility of telling more stories with a character, and any capital from those stories. Plus it’s a cheap way for them to be a threat or a shock, instead of doing something shocking or threatening.
AGREED
i feel like i was seeing one of The 100 actresses casting shade on their writers about that and like. yeah. merited. mer.it.ed.
Also, ‘shock value deaths’ is where a lot of cool marginalized characters meet their fates. Cases in point: Ryan Choi. Liam Harper. Northstar almost went that way in Marvel.
It’s always been obvious when a death didn’t need to happen, so it’s amazing people ever thought shock value was useful.
Ahh. Yes, that makes more sense.
Thank you. I now get the joke.
… which means I can now get back to being horrified.
god i fucking hate him
This guy makes Blaine and Toe Dad look like Mr. Rogers!
So that’s what Mr. Rogers looks like when he threatens people with a gun.
Nah, Mr. Rogers threatening people with a gun would be far more unsettling. He’d keep speaking in that calm, soothing tone of voice, making small talk as he keeps the barrel pointed at your forehead. He’d be friendly and nice to you right before he pulls the trigger, and then, as you lay bleeding to death, he’d walk away, whistling a dainty tune.
At least Asma is there as a witness D:
I wish this was the kind of series where that guy gets fed feet first into a meat grinder
i would eat that meat just to spite him, even though angry, hateful meat supposedly tastes word
Go fuck yourself with a cactus, Clint.
Why does it always come back to cactuses with you people? Surely there are worse things to get fucked with, though granted I’m coming up empty at the moment.
“Sir, her family is rich. May be richer than ours.”
“… Well, then, perhaps we will see her at Thanksgiving. Not the US one, though. We are Canadians.”
Wow, you are just a basket of sunshine, aren’t you?
You… literally called Ruth’s father a “degenerate”… in the same breath that accuse HER of not caring or respecting her parents? Holy fucking abuse tactics, Clint.
*that you accuse
He hates Ruth’s dad so much that he can’t stop himself from spitting at the very mention of him even while trying to use Ruth’s feelings for him as a cudgel against her.
He is such a fucking low individual.
The worst is I guarantee a large part of why he hates him is because her dad “stole her mom” from him and his control. Same as why he recounts Billie’s flaws with venom here. Anyone who gives another option of escape. Of love not carefully regulated is a threat that needs to be incapacitated and destroyed.
This.
I really hope what he said doesn’t make Ruth reconsider dumping Billie, even for a split second.
If I were to properly express my feelings about Clint here, it would end up getting much too graphic.
Let’s just say its somewhere between medieval torture and even older medicine. Like, from around the time where they decided treating the weapon that created the wound was more effective than treating the wound it made (and it was, since it meant the doctors spent less time “treating” the patient)
With a case like this, I think we oughta go straight back to trepanning to be honest
Retrophrenology?
“This won’t hurt a bit”.
No, people sometimes actually healed from ancient trepanning.
I’m sorry, what? How does cleaning the sword help the person who got stabbed by it? Do you clean it beforehand? If so, that still hasn’t prevented ol’ Harlan Bloodsides from being stabbed, so he’s still got that gaping sword wound. Shouldn’t the wound be more important than the weapon? I’m sorry if I’ve missed something, but this is almost on the level of homeopathy.
No, it’s on the level of magic.
The “more effective” part implies the doctors were actively harmful to the patient – which probably wasn’t usually true – at least in the case of serious wounds.
You are correct, except that you seriously underestimate how bad doctors were before anyone understood how infections worked
Like, we’re talking about mashing dung into the wound to chase off “ill humors”
That sounds like they were saying “Your joke was tasteless and unfunny, now here’s some shit in your veins. It’s better than what’s already in you.”
I think this ancestral-authority-figure narrowly avoids being the worst in the comic by sole virtue of not having threatened anyone with a shotgun.
a shotgun is quicker than this drawn out stuff
please kill him.
What Clint accused of Ruth is fucked up.
I wonder what Howard thinks of all this? Because he is well within the range of hearing what his grandpa said. Like his grandpa literally insulted his dad too. It would be really nice if Ruth and Howard can talk and support with each other on a more regular basis, but I don’t think that’s what they have right now D:
I don’t think Howard is really smart enough to grasp all of this tbh, or if he is, his mind is so completely focused on game of thrones and all the boobies he wants to see that he remains oblivious.
I think Howard really wants to be obvious, but I’m highly doubtful he’s had much success there.
Especially given the expression on his face when he left the last time he visited:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/carmel/
Howard ain’t oblivious, nor is he stupid. I think he’s terrified.
Yeah 🙁
Man that black background just makes it even more ominous.
Though I think he was showing a lot more concern for Ruth on the last visit than this time. Maybe having Clint around this time just makes him want to act aloof and forget about everything is what I’m thinking. But idk how likely/accurate that interpretation is.
Is the background black for you? Mine is a powdery blue. I know that’s because a lot of the empty backgrounds are actually transparent, but what device are you using that produces a black background?
hm, that’s fair, his apparent obliviousness could be his form of a defense mechanism against Clint, just blocking it out entirely and forcing himself to focus on something else, ANYTHING else… and game of thrones is a good choice for that since it captures his young teenager… “interests”
and it’s also, like, manly enough that it’s an interest clint can never really question
He certainly can question it. “Why are you rotting your brain with this fantasy garbage? You should go find a real hobby or get a part-time job. Maybe contribute something, every now and again.”
well i mean yeah but like. not overly question it. like if he’s trying to push howard to be more manly then it’s a useful tool
and do you know how many abusers are in game of thrones?? so many!! #representation
pretty sure Howard’s access to TV and electronics is restricted at home, so Clint can and does question it
i mostly mean, by this, not that clint can’t question it, but that it’s something he’s likely not to question. it is an interest he is likely to validate, b/c it affirms some of his core beliefs.
Howard turning around and waving after this is creepy. If he’d flipped a bird, …
Not really. I think Howard has finally realized just how much of an arsehole Clint is; Ruth is, after all, his sister, and this is his way of covertly showing her that he’s on her side without tipping off the warden.
I think Howard knew already? This is their daily life, not anything new.
From personal experience, I’m guessing Howard is thinking “If I’m just really quiet, maybe he’ll stop soon”. Don’t move. Don’t breathe. Don’t let any of these words penetrate your brain. Just focus on some little unimportant detail and wait. – Damn, I used to be like Howard much more than I’m comfortable admitting.
*hugs* me too. 🙁
-hugs- im on this boat. dissociation as a coping technique, yaaaay
*hugs to all*
<3
Hugs to you all, too 🙂
Asma: What the fuck?!?
Other commenters: What the fuck?!? Can this guy please die?!?
Me: (preping an old voodoo doll given by a friend) I hope this works through cyberspace on webcomic characters. Time for someone to have a heart attack in the parking lot…
…How do you give a voodoo doll a heart attack?
Needle to the left side of the chest where the heart would be on a regular person.
Anyone know his last name? I’ve got a book that a god of death gave me and one name seriously needs to be written in it.
while we wait for that reveal, spend a page or two writing out the most painful and long-winded cause of death you can, so it’s all ready for when we have the name
Comic Reactions:
*incoherent rage for 20 minutes followed by a slow calming down*
I do not particularly care for this gentleman.
Panel 1: Like a fucking pet. He calls him like a fucking pet. These poor kids aren’t even fully human to him. They are trophies and pets, tools and things to torment. Like, he does so many horrible things this trip. So many. But the worst might be this casual dehumanization. He does not view these kids as human. He does not ask about their lives. He shows no concern for the fact that Ruth nearly died. No question in any way accepting the idea that Howard and Ruth could have internal lives with ideas that matter. Even their loves are just something for him to denigrate and use as a weapon.
And that’s the part that sinks the blade that extra little bit in, because he truly does not give a fuck if these kids live or die. Only that they do so according to his desires and aims.
Panel 2: Again, the context. Ruth just got out of the hospital today because she was a high risk of suicide and basically had a complete mental collapse. And here he is twisting that to her “disappointing him” as if she has any real control over her mental state especially as he goes to work tearing down all her mental defenses and coping strategies and retraps her in the thing that nearly killed her.
And that’s the sickest part of all of this. He’d gladly watch his grand-daughter die by her own hand than accept the idea that she is allowed to have any control over her life. And his task is an impossible one. She can never be demure enough, perfect enough, to not be abused by him in every interaction they have. He’ll always be “disappointed” because that’s his excuse for the cauldron of hate he has bubbling within him. The justification he uses to tell himself he’s the aggrieved party here.
And we see that here. “Next time” he won’t be so “diplomatic”. As if this has been anything other than a full-on assault on Ruth’s already shaky mental health, as if he gave her a single moment of kindness or restraint from his relentless cruelty.
don’t you just LOVE how EVERYTHING is about him and all the time he had to put in and the great inconvenience he was put to
boy howdy
Ruth: “…yes sir…. no sir.. but sir, that would literary kill me… sorry for speaking up sir… I’ll do anything you say, sir”
“Sir”: *heavy abuse, full on assault and threats*
Ruth: “…yes sir.”
“Sir”: “Next time I won’t be so diplomatic”
How are you doing hun?
Getting better but very very tired.
I’m glad you’re doing better. I worry about you ya know? You’ve been through hell lately. I do try read what you write, even if I don’t respond. Reality has somehow become a B movie script with logic and plot holes the size of the Grand Canyon. I’m sorry that we have to play part in it.
You two seem to have some sort of bond, but I can’t put my finger on it.
(this is a joke about the avatars, not the conversation you’re having. You two take care)
All hail the mighty Roz Avatar Armada!
I don’t understand what you’re talking about.
Lol! Yes. We are the Roz Collective! 😉
Panel 3: Holy fuck, this panel leaves me with the shakes. Cause, fuck. A) It hits closer to home than I’d like. B) It’s just such a masterfully vile example of manipulative destruction, taking weak point after weak point and twisting it like a blade into blow after blow all while presenting himself as restrained, above it all, like the aggrieved party. C) This attack.
Like, holy fuckballs, this attack doesn’t just stab at a wound. It stabs at THE wound. The most terrible tragedy that ever befell Ruth. That swept her from a country and family and boyfriend she loved into the arms of a cruel abusive man who has not given her a single second to catch her breath. And it stabs right at what she’s already used to pummel herself. That she has fallen for a drunk driver. That she is somehow letting her parents down as if she could affect who she loves.
And stabbing once again at her father as if anything he could be could be much worse than this vile example of pure violent hate. This is… fuck. This is just fuck.
Panel 4: And it destroys Ruth. Like, her eyes are pin-pricks again, her face plastered like right before she ended up in the hospital. He’s destroying what little mental health she could build to hold off the siren call of the grave and doing so not only with full smug enjoyment, but also all while pretending to be restrained, to be kind, to be showing mercy to the ungrateful toaster that thought she was people.
And poor Howard, just waving goodbye as Ruth disassociates the scene entirely, not even really seeing the hallway at all, just the two of them. A small kindness, all he can spare without inviting “sir’s” wrath. Or at least that’s how he sees it. How it’s been beaten into him.
It all… it all hits home a lot. I don’t… I don’t really have great defenses against my weak points, against my insecurities and vulnerabilities and abusers have exploited that. A lot. My dad, my uncle, various employers, several of the people who have sexually assaulted or harassed me. And so I know that feeling of having something that was intense pain twisted and used like a weapon against me leaving me a broken shell ripping myself apart under the surface. It makes these last two panels, really hard to read. Even now.
Panel 5: Oh, Asma, deeply perturbed by the horror of what she’s witnessed, the abject cruelty, not knowing what to say, maybe even beating herself up for not intervening. And Ruth. Just shattered, brought down to where she was when she was taken to the hospital all because a twisted fuck thought her near suicide attempt was some elaborate ploy to defy him and escape the plan he had set for her.
And it makes me want to hug Ruth and get her and her brother free. Because if she doesn’t, this horrible man will kill her.
i’ve grown out of a lot of the hypersensitivity to criticism but like it still friggin hurts when every other word out of someone’s mouth is something negative and personally pointed at somebody and like
this shit is still worse, because it’s so diabolical
there is absolutely nothing to be gained from it, only the harm of another person
this is the violence
*hugs*
Huh, this comment didn’t show up in my feed reader. It seems to be missing other comments too, especially Cerberus’ longer ones. Is anyone else having similar issues?
THAT attack. Openly. In front of Asma. In front of Howard. There is no pretense here. No suggestion that he in any shape or form tries to hide what he is.
Howard doesn’t bat an eye when “jolly old gramps” full on attacks his sister with the memory of their parents as weapon. He KNOWS the score and he knows the price of defiance just as well as Ruth.
If there has been any doubt that his avoidance tactics has been fully conscious, it is gone now. The hunt for game of thrones and uncensored boobies gave him a few minutes away from “Sir”, and that was the main goal.
Yup, hide in a few moments of peace until he finds you again. Hold firm, ride it out, survive.
And yeah, “sir” doesn’t give a fuck, using this raw pain to tear down Ruth in front of Howard, in front of a witness. That’s the part that tears at the sickness of our society. That abuse is so normalized and underpunished that even in the real world, plenty of abusers believe like “sir” they can pull this shit in broad daylight in front of people with no ill consequences whatsoever.
No wonder Billie was about ready to deck the prick.
Cerberus, are you an English major?
Close. I was a Literature minor. The overanalyzing everything I touch is more a quirk of mine than a trained habit.
Your analysis is always so damned good. Clint can’t fall over dead from a rage-induced stroke fast enough for me. I mean, he’s an amazingly-written character: this isn’t like my disdain for Robin. Clint is an awful human being written in a brutally straight-forward fashion.
*All the hugs you are comfortable with* 🙁
Hey Cerb I just wanted to apologize for what I said a couple weeks back. When you said that it hurt you I was honestly filled with a lot of shame and guilt so I just wanted to say that I’m sorry for doing so. Regardless of how I was feeling that day I really should have kept my mouth shut.
Hey, it’s cool. *hugs offered* I’m okay. I knew you didn’t intend that so you definitely don’t need to beat yourself up about it. It was more a “ouch, you’re standing on my toes” thing.
I know but still I was just in a really awful headspace that day and I took it out here without thinking that saying the stuff that filled me with dread and anxiety about coming back here would hurt someone else. So I’m sorry. You deserve that much.
*hugs*
Asma: *Dials a number on her phone* “Hey. Dad? I love you. *Pause* No, nothing’s wrong. Just wanted to, you know, let you know that you’re a good dad, and how much I appreciate you.” *Pause* “No, dad, I do not have cancer!”
I totally headcanon this!
was this a steven universe reference?
Afraid not, I’ve never watched Steven Universe.
;_;
“It’s just… you call me now and then to say that. Last time was during the shooting, and before that during family weekend. Is everything all right?”
“I see things…”
“i see shitty parents. all around me.”
Well I think Clint has fully overtaken Blake in terms of shitty father rating. Not sure if he quite beats Toedad yet since he’s not resorting to kidnapping and potential murder of people who get in the way, but give him some time, I’m sure he’ll get there.
Also the fact that Asma has been an observer of Clint’s abusive behavior for all of like, 30 seconds, and she’s already horrified, speaks a lot to how shitty Clint is.
He’s actively increasing Ruth’s risk of suicide. With weapons that leave much deeper long-term wounds than being threatened with a shotgun. I say Clint is worse.
Seconded
Yes; it’s a fuck of a lot harder to run away to safety when he’s put the weapon into your own head. 🙁
While this is true, Toedad wasn’t satisfied with physical abuse, remember his last interaction with Becky? His attempts to physically control and harm her failed, so he decided to use the mental gun too “you ruined this family”
He went and either nurtured or planted the seed in Becky’s mind that she’s the reason her mom committed suicide, she’s the reason people got hurt saving her, she’s the reason he’s in jail now, everything’s her fault, etc…
Toedad’s first resort was physical violence, but he was mentally abusive too. So far Clint is only mentally abusive… but as I said, give it time I’m sure he’ll use that cane on Ruth or Howard soon.
I’m not sure if it’s a good thing or a bad thing that I’m not reacting to this comic. Even the ‘yay, witness’ is pretty muted.
Then again, fucking NVoice is still ranting about how I certainly must have OCD and therefore everything is hopeless and I should just let it run my life for me and push everyone away before I hurt them with my crazy, so, maybe I just don’t have room for anything else in here right now.
…wow, I was actually falling for its bullshit there for a while. Much harder to believe that crap when it’s wrtiien down 🙂
NVoices are dicks. Let’s both not listen to them
yeah. 🙂
it’s really loud today, but I got a few things done anyways. doing things helps, but fuck is it ever hard and painful and I don’t wanna. I’m so tense my ears are ringing :/
*appropriate gesture of support* And yeah, that voice is a giant douche.
“Next time, I won’t refrain from doing this… or this… or THIS.”
Clint walked briskly out of the dorm building, muttering angrily under his breath. His grandchildren continued to disobey him, no matter his efforts. First his granddaughter proved how much she took after the good for nothing piece of shit who had stolen his daughter away. She needed a hospital to function. How pathetic! Then his grandson dared defy him by dawdling to get to the lobby, as if he didn’t have better things to do than manage the dumpster fire that was his granddaughter’s life.
Things took a turn though, when an armoured police car pulled up to the curb. Out stepped a young punk, with dirty blonde hair and blue eyes. He was trying to dress classy, in a suit, but the look he gave Clint proved he was anything but.
“Mr. Clint Hughes?’ asked the punk in the suit as if he were Clint’s boss.
“Yes. May I help you?” Clint asked in a clipped tone, seething at the brat’s insolence in addressing him this way.
“My name is Agent Clint Barton. I’ve been searching for you all day. On behalf of SHIELD, you’re under arrest.”
Howard gasped and froze up like a coward. Clint wanted to snap, but held himself back.
“Arrest? What for?” he demanded, as any man would.
“For investing heavily in organizations that funded groups like HYDRA and AIM and supplying information to those same groups. If you would come with us quietly, your cooperation will be noted.”
“That is ridiculous! Who said that? I’d bet this is some kind of prank from my granddaughter’s friends. I’ve had to come and sort out her affairs recently and some of them may not have taken it well,” Clint explained.
“No, sir. We’ve got far more to go on than a phone phone call. Financial records, security footage of meetings, invoices, HYDRA supply information we found on a raid. You’re definitely going to have to come with me,” The punk dared to argue, sounding tired and looking like he was dealing with some crabby old man. Clint’s blood boiled at being underestimated like this.
“How dare you! I demand-”
“Sir, you’re in no position to demand anything. Now you can come with me quietly, or I can bring you in forcibly, but I’d rather not have to do that in front of your child,” Barton said as if he could call the shots.
“G-grandpa?” the boy burbled like a baby. Weak, just like his father and sister. Pathetic.
“Quiet!” he snapped at the boy firmly, ignoring the way Howard flinched. Agent Barton didn’t though.
“Sir, the car, now.”
“I will do no such thing! How dare you accuse me of these things?! I fought for this country!” Clint scolded severely, pointing his finger at the agent’s chest.
“And supplied information to HYDRA during those wars, I know. Now,” Agent Barton grabbed Clint’s wrist and span Clint around, slapping cuffs on him, “you’re coming with me.”
Clint cried out at the force used to spin him and then growled, “You will regret this. I’ll be found not guilty and I’m going to sue you into the ground.”
The agent scoffed – SCOFFED – at Clint’s resistance and brushed him off saying sarcastically, “I’m sure you will, sir. But until then, you’re going to enjoy some time in a SHIELD holding cell.”
Dragging Clint into the back of the car, Clint squirming and resisting, finally kicking, all the way, the agent pulled a sour face at the gathering crowd staring at the police car. “Dammit,” he grumbled, “this is what I wanted to avoid.”
“I’m serious!” Clint shouted, starting to lose his temper in earnest as he was shoved into a seat, “I’ll have your job! SHIELD will be even more of laughing stock then it already is-”
“Oh, shut up, you traitorous, egotistical bastard,” Agent Bartonfinally snapped at him, slamming the door.
Agent Barton looked up, seeing a small crowd begin to get bigger. He sighed and grumbled about how this made a scene.
He heard a sniffle, and turned to face Howard. He softened a little – this guy was just a kid. He kind of reminded him of one of his own sons, though admittedly he was older.
“Hey kid, how old are you?” he asked.
The kid squeaked and all the colour drained from his face. He choked out, “Sixteen”, looking like he was trying not to hyperventilate.
Barton held back a wince at the constricting feeling of guilt in his chest. He’d had to bring people in with their families present before and it was never pleasant. There were more important things to worry about though, like where this minor was going to stay.
“You got any family nearby? Someone you can stay with for a couple of days before we sort this out?”
“M-my sister. S-she lives in there,” the kid answered, pointing at the building he and his grandfather had exited.
“Good. You go sign in or whatever you have to do. I need to get this guy to my base, and I’ll call for someone to explain the situation.”
“O-okay,” the kid replied, starting to back away to the door. He grew more slightly more relaxed which each step away from Barton and his grandfather. Just before he stepped in he offered, “Mr. Barton? Thank you.”
clint, closet nazi
bone appetite
Either that or he really does not give a fuck that his investment means bankrolling Nazis so long as they make money. YMMV on which is worse.
i mean like…do nazis make money. do they really
I don’t know, the Swiss won’t tell us about the bank accounts they set up for them.
:///
that sounds almost like more of an inherited money thing tho
For all we know they’ve been using a combination of Swiss bank accounts and fake IDs to make investments in businesses both legitimate and illicit, ranking in an even bigger fortune from their stockpile of bloodgold. Or even just accruing interest on the account if Swiss Bank Accounts do that. There’s a lot of shady ways to make money with anonymity provided by Swiss Banking. It’s why they (and the Cayman Islands) are so popular with high level criminals.
i. w o w
huh u learn something new every day
No, but I imagine there are companies funding them that do sometimes. Companies Clint can invest in.
If not, the profitable ones might be the ones funding AIM.
friiick
Well, I mean there’s probs Nazis who make money too, sadly. Plus this is HYDRA and they’re clearly loaded.
Two words: “Shell Companies”.
Pretty much. Like those funding HYDRA and AIM, which is why Clint Barton gets to arrest Clint Hughes.
i mean like i always got the impression that HYDRA was more parasitical in nature so it made money off of SHIELD making money i.e. stealing it from them
but yeah ok makes sense
I’d imagine they also have some funding form elsewhere, in case SHIELD ever caught them. At least a front company or two.
PROB ably
i bet they own walmart
Sadly, HYDRA seems to have a healthy bank account.
On his way back to Clark, Howard passed a group of students from Ethan’s wing who – without RA – were enjoying the freedom of not having to watch star trek.
“GAME OF THRONES-NIGHT!!!”
“WOOOOOOOH!”
Seeing Howards longing stares, perhaps recognizing something of himself in a young man’s lust for boobies on TV, one of the students went up to him.
“Hey, kid, wanna join? It’s a Daenerys episode.”
All in all, Howard reflected, things were looking up.
This is me Word of God confirming SHIELD also offered Ruth a lot of money to testify about her grandfather’s business partners and also in compensation for suddenly dropping a child on her.
*Three AM. Ruth’s phone rings*:
Ruth: “WHAT THE FU…”
Campus security: “We have your little brother here. NOT his clothes, mind. Could you please pick him up. He has had a quite… special night.”
Howard and his new friends. “Game of throooooooones”
Clint Hughes is a disgrace to the name Clint. Clearly I needed a better one to teach him better.
god and satan both bless you
Hawkeyes is, as always, best Clint.
Thank you. You are a beautiful person. X3
Hawkeyes had to fix this, I was too mad.
Hawkeyes rules!! In a world with super-powered individuals, super soldiers, advanced exosuits, magic, and gods he gets by with just his trusty bow and a lot of arrows.
Which is why he hones his skill to have the best aim in the Marvel verse, iirc. Because if he’s a regular archer with regular accuracy, he has no possible way to keep up, and is wasting both his own time and the time of his friends on the Avengers and his time there was for nothing.
The job may give him chronic pain, but damn, that’s commitment if anything is.
I second BP’s claim. You are indeed a beautiful person. This is now part of my own separate head canon of “how it should have ended… sorta”. Not so much ending, but ending this little trip for Ruth and Howard’s granddad.
It works for now! 😀
Like, seriously, Howard heard all of that. All. Of. That.
What the fuck.
As far as he knows, that’s just how grandparents talk. 🙁
And of course, he knows that any involvement on his part will make it worse. For him and for Ruth.
The hostage situation works both ways.
asma’s face is almost even more than ruth’s face is
Can we hate him NOW people? Please? No more ‘but he seems nice’ and ‘benefit of the doubt’?
Got to hand it to Willis, the characters manage to make my blood boil. Excellent writing.
I’ve been hating him for while, but this has to be the straw that breaks the “That Guy”s backs. This is straight up evil.
Never mind we have a “That Guy” who wasn’t swayed.
I’m with Asma: What the fudging actual FUDGE????!!!
This jerk could give Anne’s dad over at Gunnerkrigg Court a run for the money in being a douchebag.
Gramps here is a card-carrying member of ‘ the assholeist generation’
The difference is that Anthony’s douchebaggery has since been deconstructed. Not that that excuses his behavior. I’m curious to see whether there is any depth to what Clint is doing.
anthony at least isn’t cruel for the sake of being cruel, as far as i can tell. he genuinely feels like he’s doing what’s best for his daughter?? whereas this dude has no investment in ruth and howard’s wellbeing
So for a moment I thought Clint was coming off as if he couldn’t let go of his daughter in any way and that possessive grief has been poisoning his mind ever since. But the fact that he mentions Ruth’s “degenerate father” in the same breath as accusing Ruth of “disgracing” them both just makes seem so that everything he does to Ruth is entirely deliberate. What I don’t get is why. Why. WHY. But in the end, perhaps he is just an asshole tripping on power.
I think he does it because he hates Ruth’s dad and feels that, as he said, there’s so little of his daughter and so much of the father in Ruth, and that Ruth’s dad found immortality in her. So his hatred of her dad spills over onto her. He’s doing to Ruth all the things he wish he could’ve done to her dad like the petty, bitter, hateful old man he is
He probably did those things to his daughter, too. This is a personality trait, not a result of a particular encounter.
“”””diplomatic”””””
such diplomacy. much wow.
“Am. I. Not. Merciful?”
Considers how “diplomacy” has been conducted by nation-states in the past.
….. it’s a fair cop.
…. well, there went my headcanon that the drunk driver in question was Clint, with Ruth’s parents as his passengers.
….
… I mean I suppose it’s still possible. Maybe. Maybe. No.
….. anyhow, now I need a new headcanon for hating him even worse than I already do. Because reasons. Hateful reasons.
Quite simple. He paid the driver to get drunk and drive under the influence, having scoped out Ruth’s parents’ daily schedule through illegal means. Unlikely, sure. But I wouldn’t put it past the bastard.
why do you need any tho
he is already the vilest shit that can exist
I’d rank Blaine and Ryan as worse.
…. though honestly all three are at a “so damn awful who cares which is worst” levels.
The only way they could worse is if they were Nazis at this point. Although, we don’t know for certain any of their political views, so that could well be possible.
Moment Howard turn 18 you drop kick him in the bad knee. See how he likes that.
Maybe it’s going over my head but what does Catwoman’s whip have to do with the death of Batman’s parents?
as far as i can figure: batman sleeps with catwoman, a criminal, who uses whips as her main weapon of choice. vs. ruth who is sleeping with billie, a drunk driver, when a drunk driver killed her parents.
the irony is that catwoman has killed someone, with a gun. black mask really had it coming tho he like. tortured and murdered a robin and then tortured and murdered catwoman’s sister and that was about when selina had had enough
A Robin that Selena had personally bonded with and cared about, nonetheless, who was killed after leaving Selena’s apartment where she was supposed to be safe. I believe he’d made it very clear that he intended to finish Catwoman’s sister off or go after Catwoman’s friends when she shot him. So, yeah, she was fucking DONE.
even JOKER was out for his ass and that’s saying something
granted, it was more because he stole his shtick of killing robins, but like. still
TBF, Black Mask killed the BEST Robin (IMO).
and i cry
stephanie brown is the best robin of them all, it’s true, we’re blessed to be in her presence in our universe
My favourite character of anything ever. <333
honestly she and cass are about tied for me i love them both so dearly and they’re so tragically underappreciated by their canons
but like damn does steph take the cake for character development, holy smokes
what a dreamboat
I adore Cass too, but Stephanie resonated with me so much when I was like 12, so she took top spot. Formative influence.
yeees
like steph is definitely just…so influential for me as a person
but cass means so much to me too, dear sweet wild moonchild
i can’t choose!!!!
I can’t even begin to blame you. I have a lotta love for Cass too. <3 I can easily understand being torn.
I never really got into DC Comics (I was more of an X-Comic book nerd), but when I heard about Stephanie Brown I instantly became a fan.
I thought the whole POINT was that Batman is AWARE its hypocritical and is constantly breaking up with Selina Kyle because it ruins his own mass of self-justifications. You know, despite the fact she’s Chaotic Good at worst nowadays.
I love the both of them so much. And I totally ship them as a queer platonic unit. Like, their interactions and dynamic were so so good.
@BBCC: honestly the best of all worlds is one where they both exist
@spaz what was your first impression of her?? DEETS.
@C.T. Phipps. i. idk. probably depends on which run you read
@Cerberus THEY WOULD MAKE THE BEST OF WIVES. so supportive. so chill. so *clenches fist* interconnected. and they have such a fun dynamic
harper/cass now is a lot of fun too but mostly because like. harper is textually bi and subtextually into her. which is something we never really got for stephcass unfortunately
@ Spaz – To quote the commercial, why not have both?
@ C.T. – Probably, but a lot of folks forget she’s willing and able to shoot people, so I figured that incident was worth bringing up, to ensure they get the hypocrisy.
@ Cerberus – I can see it! My favoured time period for them is when they were just becoming best friends (when Cass had the emotional development of someone about 12), but I recognize they’ve both grown and matured and developed since then and so I can definitely see it now.
It’s a bit of hypocritical rationalization.
1. Batman is saying not to fuck the thing that killed your parents (in Ruth’s case, a drunk driver; in Batman’s case, a thief)
2. But Batman has a… THING… going on with Catwoman, who is a thief.
3. Batman’s defense of the hypocrisy is to say that because Catwoman uses whips instead of guns like the mugger that killed his parents, he’s not breaking his own advice.
The irony being that Catwoman has used a gun to kill a man before.
I don’t Batman defends it, does he? Still, he’s a judgemental jerkass to Selina so I feel no need to defend him on it.
His defense in the alt-text, Phipps.
Yahbut, Catwoman’s a bugler and Chill was a mugger.
He just said all of that like Asma wasn’t even there.
Which I suppose she probably wasn’t, as far as he was concerned; she’s just an attractive appliance.
God, I so want Asme to become a system of support for Ruth after witnessing that.
*Asma, excuse my typos.
at least you didn’t type Asthma
Well, she IS breathtaking.
Go to your room.
I’m already there! With my inhalers!
it’s time for a coffee break asma u just found a new friend, which you will make by force of will
I honestly just want Asma to reach over and take Ruth’s hand and just like. Hold it. Stand there with her and hold it.
I would love this. Ruth could use another actual friend, even if brought on by a terrible situation.
;_;
Hey, when I’m feeling sick one of the first things I decide to do is to look at the latest DoA comic, because that’ll put me in a good mood, right? |:(
On the other hand, looking at your gravatar puts ME in a good mood, so that’s something!
Nice to be of service to you 🙂 There’s soooo many cute clairefaces out there
she is adorbs incarnate
Nice guy. Reminds me of Darkseid. He referred to Ruth’s dad as a degenerate. Is that his way of saying his son-in-law was gay?
Probably suffered from depression or other mental illnesses. If you go back to the first time Clint throws off his mask (it’s barely affixed here, to be fair), he grabs Ruth and verbally tears her father to shreds with specific mention of mental “problems” that Ruth inherited.
This is all going to end with Joyce breaking another hand isn’t it?
She only sprained it. But a first time for everything I guess. Evil Grandpa is more powerful than Evil Dad.
just like in Kids Next Door!
That girl made a horrible mistake, so it completely discounts the fact that she is one the few people who make you happy. Your emotional well-being does not matter except in how it will affect my image, so this girl obviously has to go regardless of any feelings you have on the matter. Also, I will publicly shame you because you didn’t feel shitty enough about dating this girl despite how your parents died.
God I hate this dude. But I will give him props in two aspects. 1) He’s not giving her shit about the fact that Billie is a girl. 2) He’s not pulling out a gun and kidnapping her. Reaaaaaaallyyyyyyyy low bar and he is sort of holding Howard hostage, but still, I don’t hate him as much as Toe Dad. Although, I do hate this situation more, because it seems much harder to escape.
1. The fact that he seems to hate anyone who will make Ruth happy regardless of gender or type of relationship is not a plus for me. He did give Ruth shit about the fact that Billie’s a girl he just hid it under insults to her father.
2. The fact that he is driving Ruth to suicide and knowingly attacking her emotions now is just as violent as Toedad if not more so. The fact that he’s doing this while maintaining enough control not to end up in jail is a sign that he knows what he’s doing.
“i don’t care that you’re gay, i care that you’re happy”
like what the fuck
No but now that I’m thinking about it again I’m cracking up again. This dude is all the worst things he can be but he is Not A Homophobe. Like this is surreal levels of irony and huge KUDOS to Willis for playing around with this stuff.
(No, seriously, he’s hitting Ruth in all the most painful points he can think of, and the fact she’s in a same-sex relationship doesn’t come up??? This is HILARIOUS I’m sorry it just is)
oh he did not just go there.
I always thought Billie was a toxic influence on Ruth and vice versa but, at this point, it wouldn’t make anything better because Ruth has such a walking black hole of awful in Clint.
FYI – to clarify, I mean due to their shared alcoholism.
i mean, like. at least they support each other
…in shared alcoholism
but also in surviving b/c they care too much for each other to follow through on their suicide pact
…
…
ye a h
Yeah…..
I half feel like someone slashed his tires while this was going on.
Wow! It’s like someone gave Clint a copy of “Emotional Abuse for Dummies”!
In fairness to the guy, he appears to be lashing out at basically everyone, and doing it for an actual reason (his dead kids seem to be the driving force here). None of which makes him being abusive to kids under his care necessarily forgivable, but at least it’s more _sympathetic_ than Blaine, who’s just a monster because he feels like it, or Toedad who thinks he should murder people For Jesus.
I mean, most of us would probably be angry and lashing out verbally at random if our kids died and we were suddenly stuck raising two kids we hadn’t previously interacted with much due to geographical distance when we thought we were retired. The world kinda screwed everyone in this family, and it’s not like Sir is the only one reacting the way he is: Ruth is an unforgivable abusive asshole who targets the weak among the people she’s supposed to be caring for too, and that’s not really forgivable either.
Basically, DoA appears to be moving beyond heroes vs villains and into straight-up nihilism, if it’s not there already.
I think this is a good analysis, though I disagree with the last bit. There’s scumbags in the comic, for sure, but it’s largely about good people trying to live with their damages.
OTOH, there are at least some hints his problems precede their deaths. His rage at her husband and their move to Canada fit nicely if his behavior towards his daughter was similar to his abuse of Ruth – they moved to Canada to get out of easy reach and the rage is because he took her out of his control.
Obviously not spelled out in canon, but I think it’s easily as likely a read as “previously nice guy lashing out in pain”. In the end, it doesn’t really matter. This is Ruth’s story and whatever his past, his role in her life is as the villain.
Thinking a little more though, I don’t see him as lashing out at everyone. He’s actually very controlled and saves his open vitriol for Ruth. He was charming to Chloe and though nearly every word in that office was a stab at Ruth, they were all subtle enough be missed if you’re not already aware. It was only as they turned away we saw his behavior change and only outside did he really tear into her. Even when Billie interrupted, his dismissive response aimed at Ruth’s weak points, not really at Billie.
I really don’t see any of this as random. He’s not so much lashing out as trying to control and doing a pretty effective job.
We suspect Howard takes his share of abuse, but we really haven’t seen much interaction. That suspicion pretty much comes from Howard’s behavior.
i mean. like. if Clint was ever genuinely a nice guy, he wouldn’t lash out at people like this. this is – beyond lashing out in hurt. like. the thing that gets me is that Ruth and Howard are as much victims of this loss as he is – so why hurt them, when they could bond over their shared grief instead? they are literally the only people who could understand exactly what they’ve lost and instead he goes with this shit
yeah, my face is very much like Asma’s now. Dude.
“Next time I’ll be real mean, and I’ll remind you of the thing I’m literally about to remind you right now”
What a joyless fucking… well, word I don’t feel comfortable saying on this site. I’d bet my left eye Clint has never had a genuine fucking laugh in his entire life. The closest he’s ever gotten is a smug, superior “Hmph!” when he sees someone else suffering. The only reason he’d ever be around for a birthday or family gathering is because it’s the Done Thing, and he has to keep up appearances, after all. People who insist on being joyless tools are the fucking worst, and they can all get in the fucking sea.
Oh man, poor Ruth. I had forgotten how her parents died.
Clint’s such an abusive asshole.
Asma can confirm it too. She just heard everything that douche said to Ruth.
dthe worst part was that he brought up her Dad, who he doesn’t even like, just because he knows that she liked him.
I know that this is going to get me alot of hate, but I can’t COMPLETELY dismiss this guy as a villain. YES he is super strict, but that almost seems to me like the result of a man who lost his daughter and is determined not to let his granddaughter name the same mistakes she did.
YES. he is judgmental, And YES he’s harsh, But A LOT of people are ignoring the fact completely that he DID come bail Ruth out in her time of need. he ISN’T snatching her up and making her come home. In fact, at least from what we have seen depicted here, I’m finding it hard to even label him as abusive. Strict? Sure. a jerk? Sure, But he’s not the pure unadulterated evil that people seem to accusing him of. Remember the ” It’s not safe ” Was never a proven fact. It was a statement made by a self destructive, suicidal alcoholic. Now, I’m not saying it’s an ideal home life, But if a man is willing to travel as far as he did at the drop of a hat to save his granddaughter, instead of allowing her to fail and force her to come home for the “I told you so” says alot.
I think that there is a viable characterisation of Clint that his disapproved of Ruth and Howard’s father and that, after his daughter’s death, there was a considerable degree of hostility transfer to the children and also aggression as a compensation for feelings of guilt about events that he refused to confront. However, none of this really is an excuse. At most it is an explanation but not a one likely to garner sympathy.
Well, I’d thought we’d reached the point where no one could deny Clint’s awfulness.
Sorry Willis, you’ll have to try harder on his return visit.
Tends to be a universal rule. An abusive character will still get defenders until an action is so far beyond the pale that the people who would do that start complaining about them being “poorly written” and “a cartoon villain” instead.
To Locke, I know you’re just wanting to see the best in this man, which is not a bad thing per se. But this is not “being strict”, this is textbook emotional abuse and it destroys lives and leaves folks with complex PTSD.
Like, I’ve thrown up the Duluth Power and Control Wheel a fair few times in the comments, but it’s a key and useful barometer for understanding the dynamics of this kind of abuse:
http://www.ncdsv.org/images/PowerControlwheelNOSHADING.pdf
And “sir” has done every single spoke of it.
“Treating her like a servant”, yup. Using children to ensure her compliance, check. Keeping her trapped economically including not letting her change her job to one that is less stressful in recovery, check. Making and carrying out threats, *looks above* yup, definite check. Intimidation? Fuck yes. Emotional abuse? Oh hell yes. Isolation? Well, he is trying to sabotage her romantic relationships and she and Howard do seem to lack much in the way of friendships either, so yeah, definite check there. And minimizing, denying, and blaming. Fuck, look at all the horrible damaging shit he did this trip and more importantly how badly it all sabotaged her recovery and that this is the immediate response to her being hospitalized for suicidal ideation and all the while, he presents it as him being “diplomatic”.
If you see this happening in life? To someone. They are not “dealing with a bit of a jerk”, they are being abused. They are having their worst memories treated like weapons to stab them and control them and lord power over them. And no child should ever dread their guardian like both Howard and Ruth do.
This? Is abuse. Is written deliberately to depict an abusive man. Willis has stated very clearly in the past that he has no interest in the traditional narrative where the abused person is overblowing their abuser and mistaken about it. What he is interested in is depicting abusive relationships accurately to how they happen. How they’ve happened. To him. To many of us. And the process of recovering and escaping from that and building a new full life. That’s Ruth’s arc. Not one of a person who needs to learn that their abusive guardian who makes them want to die is actually just “strict” and showing “tough love”.
An abusive character will still get defenders until an action is so far beyond the pale that the people who would do that start complaining about them being “poorly written” and “a cartoon villain” instead.
This is, imho, what’s so frustrating about this loop. You can’t even say, “Well, they’ll see they were wrong eventually,” because that’s never what happens. Instead they manage to convince themselves that if only this comic were written better they would have been right. It’s the ultimate goalposts-moving. And then they tend to take their toys and go home, only to be replaced by the next That Guy.
I believe there’s room for nuanced 3-dimensional villains as well as sympathetic abusers but the simple fact is the depiction of them is so often JUSTIFYING their abuse that Willis’ comic actually benefits from just treating them as irredeemable scum. It’s kind of why there’s a “Blue Screen of Death” with Robin as the comic has, heretofore, shown every villain as ultimately awful in a way that’s unsalvagable.
But A LOT of people are ignoring the fact completely that he DID come bail Ruth out in her time of need. he ISN’T snatching her up and making her come home
This is a very narrow definition of abuse you’ve got here. Like, ignoring that Ruth did not want his “help” and tried with visible desperation to stop him from “helping” her, abusers can do stuff that, in isolation, seems both kind and thoughtful. (Heck, abusers can be kind and thoughtful; they usually have both friends and family that they don’t abuse, reserving their abuse for only a few people in their lives. Abuse is a choice.)
You have an interesting definition of “strict”. Here are the problems with Clint’s behavior:
1. We’re starting off light: complete dismissal of the fact Ruth does not want the job of R.A. anymore. This I could allow as strictness, if it weren’t for everything else (but still inappropriate given Ruth’s age).
2. Here it gets hairy: complete disinterest in the fact that Ruth was just released from hospital after being treated for depression and suicidal tendencies(!).
3. Most importantly: putting Ruth down at every turn and deliberately reinforcing the feeling that she is a worthless piece of shit.
REALLY?
Okay, 1) her grandfather also lives in Indiana. Remember how Howie drove himself down for family weekend from Carmel? That’s where they live. He didn’t come down from Canada, he is LOCAL.
2) Abuse is maintaining control of a person to the detriment of all else. The easiest way to do it is to make a person so confused about what is “right” that they have to double-check with you at all times; this can be accomplished by basically mocking and punishing everything randomly, so the child or partner can’t figure out what will make the punishment STOP. (Which explains a lot about Amber.)
Or you can use an existing patriarchal system to do most of the heavy lifting for you, backing you up on your “right” to control everything about a person’s life– who they associate with, where they go, what they say, what they know about the outside world, how they dress, how long their hair is, whether or not they get to have sex and with whom. Similarly, if you have money and influence, you can use the levers of the system to accomplish this– as we’re seeing here.
And financial control is a big one: if you have the right to control the money (this can be a legal matter, as in “I am your legal guardian and am spending money on you so I can choose what to spend it on”, or in the case of spouses/significant others, the “I earn the money, therefore I am the only one entitled to make decisions about it”), then you control the person. You control what they can buy, where they can go, what they can do; you control whether or not they go to college and what they major in.
And there’s the way you can control someone by threatening someone they love– children, dependent parents, even yourself (threatening to kill yourself in order to stop someone from leaving is a very popular technique). “Do what I want, or else I will make this other person’s life worse” is a pretty effective technique.
Physical abuse is generally a sign that the abusive fucker doesn’t have any other tools at his disposal, or that the other tools have lost some of their effectiveness.
Clint here is controlling Ruth. He’s making it so she can’t escape a job she’s terrible at, he’s undermining whatever tiny amount of progress she’s made toward getting other support and treating herself less shittily. He is a BAD GUY. He’s just a bad guy in a suit who has classier tools at his disposal than smacking her around. Don’t be fooled.
There is some merit to the claim that Clint isn’t completely terrible, because all things aside he’s still offering Ruth the opportunity to get a college education. She’s got the ability to choose between dealing with his shit to get that education and being cut off to fend for herself. A lot of people don’t even get that choice, they just get stuck with Option B the second they turn 18.
This doesn’t change the fact that his conduct is still abusive as hell, it doesn’t magically not become abuse just because other people have to deal with worse.
“he DID come bail Ruth out in her time of need” – Oh come on. He didn’t come here to force her back into a job she doesn’t want for *her* benefit. This whole thing has been about him this entire time and the comic hasn’t been subtle about this.
“But if a man is willing to travel as far as he did at the drop of a hat to save his granddaughter”
No, that is NOT what happened. He did not show up at “the drop of a hat”, he deliberately waited until she was out of the hospital. She was in there from the Glower Vacuum story line until the very end of Everything You’ve Ever Wanted Floats Above. She was in there for *days*.
Clint didn’t show up until he knew he’d be able to berate her without a doctor or a nurse telling him to shut his face. He does NOT get credit for waiting days after his granddaughter was hospitalized to actually show up. If anything, every character he passes by should be asking him, “Where the f–k were you?!”
This goes along with my previous comment, but only slightly. MY GOD you people need help. Like Serious professional help The comments section of this comic is just bursting with people who are desperately seeing reasons to hate … well Anyone. For EVERY single character in this comic, I’ve seen people go through the most insane justifications to just pile hate on them. The VAST majority of the people in this comic are normal, albeit flawed characters, and from what we have actually seen, Chris’s flaws are no better or worse than Bilie’s, Sals, Ambers, Ruth’s or any other character’s flaws. I truly honestly think that those of you who are pulling the “We need to hate {character} because {cherry picked character flaw, ignoring all of the characters positives} ” need to take a step back and examine yourselves and ask yourself “Is this really evil, Or am I just an evil, hateful person” Of course, you won’t. Mary.
Did you start this off intending to say something of some value? If so, you failed horribly. All you’re saying is “You’re all, evil, hateful people in denial.” And none of us are that. Sure, you may not have said it outright, but “I’m just suggesting” is the weakest cover-up you can try. Nobody’s fooled, so why even bother? If you’re going to be wrong, at least own it.
OK Locke, to choose ONE example: “suicidal alcoholic” granddaughter gets out of hospital and Clint heaps emotional abuse on her. That goes way beyond “character flaw”. That’s not even remotely OK or excusable. It’s goddamn near attempted murder.
I’m with Asma here.
No, you don’t get it. Clint is definitely a likable guy because you’re just cherry-picking his one major flaw and using that as an excuse to dislike him.
We’re so unforgiving and hateful, aren’t we? Not being able to let go a minor character flaw like relentless sustained emotional abuse and active sabotage of doctor-recommended recovery that leaves a character after every interaction with him stuck in a self-destructive spiral of suicidal alcoholic depression and only being able to access the emotion of anger.
Like, pfft, such a minor thing to get hung up on.
But yeah, politely to Locke, many of us are survivors of abuse. It’s come up a lot in the comment threads. Folks have shared their stories of personal encounters of their own dealings with “sirs” in their lives. Many of us are in fact, yes, receiving professional mental health care and indeed most reputable psychologists would recognize this as a textbook case of emotional abuse that they’d need to build coping and exit strategies for.
Many of us recognize the abuse that was perpetuated against us, that we internalized as normal, in these actions because we had to scramble our ass off to escape it and have spent years in recovery for it.
And yes, Willis intends for this to be interpreted as abuse, not as a minor character flaw. Also, his name is not Chris. It’s in the tags above, so if you’re going to call abuse survivors recognizing the abuse dynamics they personally survived in a character the name of a hateful bigot character in defense of said abuse, you might at least want to get his name right.
And as a polite side note, calling abuse survivors the name of an abusive character to try and defend another abusive character is not a good look and will get you considerable pushback, especially as many survivors of abuse already struggle with the cultural messages that they are “doomed” to become their abusers.
Have a nice rest of your day.
I’d like to add:
“you people need help, serious professional help … insane justifications”
Like, the ableism isn’t even a liiiiittle bit subtle here, but hey Locke you’re right about one thing — being victims of abuse does indeed tend to leave one with emotional scars and often makes “serious professional help” a boon.
You’ve just, uh, got your cause and effect willfully, cruelly backwards.
The specific language is pretty obvious, yeah. Really, it’s just shy of using the R-word. Also, that “you people” bit? You’d think most folks would realise how loaded that particular phrase is.
This.
And it’s especially cruel when we note that it’s being used to dismiss the perspectives of abuse survivors recognizing their own abuse in a character’s actions.
And as a random side note, I’m kinda generally done with the “you need help” dismissal in general.
Like, yes, I receive professional help. But the receiving of that nor my mental illnesses in general do not make my viewpoints or lived reality any less valuable or aware of the dynamics of what is going on than someone who is neurotypical. I am crazy, yes, but that does not mean my contributions to society must always be seen as less than or less valuable than someone who is not. As less reliable than someone who is not.
And so yeah, that whole “pfft, you’re all crazy (blanket hollywood idea of what “crazy” is)” thing is a bit of an annoying rhetorical track and it’s extra annoying and dismissive in moments like this, because I see it like this, used to minimize and erase survivors of abuse and their perspectives because they dare carry PTSD from surviving that abuse.
And it also contributes to a culture where folks don’t get the care they need, because they are afraid that admitting or acknowledging their points of mental health will reduce them to the category of “crazy” and thus mean their entire perspective on the world should be dismissed.
Everyone needs help. No one, not even a hunter-gatherer and certainly no member of a modern technological society, is capable of providing for all of their own needs. (At the very least, you had parents.)
No man (or woman, or those who identify as neither) is an island, nor truly “self-made.” The myth that claims otherwise is both pernicious and, IMO, harmful.
(bah, I should check my definitions better – “stubborn and pernicious” would be more accurate and less redundant.)
Also, to clarify – my intent is to agree with you, Cerberus, not to dispute or diminish. The notion that needing help is something shameful, or a sign of weakness… no. Not at all.
It’s a good point. And I feel it gets married to this “rugged self-made man” fantasy. Like, there’s the idea that getting help is “weak” and “unmasculine” that is one of the big ways that toxic masculinity hurts a lot of men.
We’re a social species. All of us need help. Many of us can benefit from professional psychological care in the same way we benefit from professional medical care in general.
Seriously. Asking for and receiving help has made me stronger, not weaker.
And getting help for this shit can be terrifying. My hands were shaking just making an appointment to meet with a trauma counselor about my shiny new C-PTSD diagnosis. But you know what? I’m going to that appointment.
*hugs offered* You’ve got this!
Thanks! I hope so!
…somehow I feel that to inject a bit of levity into this discussion, it might be semi-appropriate to bring up the very good saying “just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean nobody’s after you”
I dunno, it just makes me giggle and feel better <3
I’d actually like to have a discussion about the performative aspect of comment sections, the feedback loop that engenders, and why where it ends up is not great for the participants, but, uh, some other time when emotions are less raw.
This may be me but I rather think that Locke was talking about the occasional vitriol being thrown at other characters Walky and Leslie to give a couple of notable recent examples).
I guess that’s the thing, though, isn’t it? I don’t know what Willis’s reader base is in terms of unique clicks but give any large number of people access to a narrative and they will all find reasons to like and dislike certain characters. That’s people for you; I very rarely see any indication of an arbitrary ‘bandwagon’ here on DoA.com, at least one that isn’t opposed by other posters with differing viewpoints.
Yeah that’s what I think he was referring to, as well. Unfortunately he chose the wrong strip to make this comment lmao
I suppose that’s possible, if “Chris” is a thinko for someone other than Clint.
But in combination with the preceding post and saying Clint’s “flaws are no better or worse than Bilie’s, Sals, Ambers, Ruth’s or any other character’s flaws” it’s pretty obvious.
For nearly every character, there are a handful of staunch haters and far more defenders. For the outright villains (and the handful who aren’t quite villains) there is mostly hatred and only a couple of defenders.
So, should we expect Demosthenes to show up too?
Now I need to binge read the books. Again.
Locke, if you aren’t deliberately trolling, your idea of acceptable behavior is completely fucked up.
As I was reading this, I vaguely wondered if I should draw your attention to it because of its relevance to my comment yesterday to which you responded (about the ‘Challenge accepted’ folks), but I see you’ve already seen it.
I mean certain characters are reprehensible, like grampa asshole , Blane, toedad, Ryan, Joyce’s mom
But what you say about justifying hate is pretty common for all of the internet.. I’ve seen people write nasty things about kid character’s in Supernatural. That being said I see some hate thrown at Joe that I don’t agree with. But even then I can why some would have such a strong reaction to his behavior
……..listen just because many of us need therapy doesn’t mean that we’re wrong
So, in your rant about how everyone but you is too judgey, you judge everyone in the comments but yourself hate-filled ragebeasts. Irony, thy name is Locke.
I do appreciate your comment, though, because it helps me understand why you defend Clint.
All of your answers from above. Locke is wrong. I still feel like agreeing (?) on one sentiment. Seeing all these elaborate scenarios on how each commenter would like to punish Clint or Ryan makes me really uneasy. I used to read through the comments from one end to the other, but lately it feels so bad I only check in to see the general direction of the comments and leave. Clint is awful, I don’t have words strong enough. But I don’t wish him to suffer physical violence. I wish him far away, where he can no longer hurt anyone. I don’t know it is understandable, but I felt like saying this.
(Also, while writing this, I’ve been thinking about that one must have the ability to fight back, when needed, but it is hard not to be afraid of people who are capable of drawing joy out of physical violence, and this is what it seems to me)
Yeah when people started wishing Ryan onto Mary was when things reached maximum creep for me.
I mean, fictional characters so it’s not, like, the weirdest thing in the universe to want bad things to happen to them, even in the name of catharsis, bu there’s lines even then.
It’s entirely understandable. FWIW, you aren’t alone.
Locke, these are fictional characters. Willis does an amazing job of making them three dimensional, but they are still fiction. DoA is a place where we have the luxury of black and white judgements without consequence. It provides us a backdrop to explore how we feel about people and situations in our real lives. Readers can project these things onto the characters, good, evil and in-between, without fear of reprisal or harm. For that Willis deserves the highest praise.
As a work of fiction, some characters are clearly evil, others are clearly good (though often flawed). Cherry picking traits is an intentional part of the storytelling. For example, Clint is clearly among the most vile characters we have met. His actions prove that beyond any doubt. Does he have good in him? Can he be redeemed? We can speculate, but only Willis knows.
@Locke: And then there are the people who go through the most insane justifications to excuse monstrous behavior.
Clint is a blatantly obvious emotional abuser at the very least. If you can’t see that, you need help.
Well, so is Ruth, and most people in the comments seem to like _her_ now.
“Controlling, obsessive, and prone to abuse and bouts of rage” is pretty much the entire summary of her character, so now that we’re seeing that the parental figure she’s been afraid of is basically, well… her with a penis and whiter hair, any mental gymnastics someone has done to sympathize with her are going to transfer over sometimes.
Doesn’t make either of them good people or their behavior acceptable, but in any well-written fiction there should be something in the antagonists that reminds you that they’re still basically human… in this kind of story especially that’s what makes the scarier ones so scary, when you can look at them and actually see yourself or someone you otherwise like slipping into the same patterns. If Willis goes full saturday morning cartoon villain with him it’d get a cheer form the comments section but he wouldn’t be half as effective as an actual villain. Whereas where the character is sitting right now he’s probably the most deeply unsettling of the obligatory parental monsters, specifically _because_ his evil is pretty well emotionally rationalizable.
And if Willis doesn’t go full saturday morning cartoon villain, we’ll have people defending him – and likely tearing his victims down while they do so. Hell, even if he does, we probably will.
We’ll also have people here saying “Oh god, this was my life”, long after he looks like the SMCV to the lucky among us.
As for Ruth – the big difference is that Ruth is 20. From our early perspective, we could easily see Ruth becoming Clint. Her management style is obviously learned from him, since she probably had little else to model. Since then though, we’ve seen deeper into Ruth – seen the damage from the abuse as well as the unhealed scars from the loss of her parents. We’ve seen her despair and we’ve seen her vulnerability. We’ve seen her admit her wrongs and reach out to Billie.
And now she’s in therapy and though today is likely to cause a relapse she’s hopefully started towards recovery. We’ve also seen the seeds laid for her having to not only change how she runs the floor, but also find a way to atone for what she’d done – nicely set up in Rachel’s attitude towards her staying RA.
Clint, whatever his past and whatever his trauma, isn’t as bad off as Ruth was – you can’t drink yourself to death at the pace Ruth was on for very long and he’s had much longer to work at it.
The unfortunate truth here is that people this incredibly, needlessly cruel and seemingly cartoonishly evil actually exist.
They might be extreme cases, but sadly they’re not unrealistic.
*most people in the comments seem to like _her_ now*
Having sympathy for someone who was recently suicidal and is not being subject to abuse by their guardian is not the same thing as liking them or excusing their earlier poor behavior.
What I’ve mostly seen in the comments is people hoping for her to get better, both health-wise and as an RA.
Thanks for the advice. YOU need a fist in your face, CLINT.
Asma’s face is all of us readers reacting to Sir. Bravo Asma, you have captured our hearts and souls with a “WHAT THE F-” facial expression.
“All right motherfucker, you want to play it that way? Next time none of us will be so diplomatic either.”
If someone were to pull on me what Clint is pulling on Ruth, I don’t know if I could walk away without socking that person, whoever they may be.
Kinda the point is that he’s been breaking her to his will for *years* – she knows what’ll happen if she rebels in any way.
It’s exactly like all the people who claim they’d never let a romantic partner get away with hitting them when in most cases by the time the first hit happens the abuse has been happening for a while.
It makes me want to shake them because by thinking that way they’re going to ignore early warning signs.
I’ve met a lot of pricks in my time but this man is a fucking cactus
+10000000000
The way he speaks and behaves… does anyone else get a Snape/Vernon Dursley kind of feel from him?
Vernon Dursley, maybe. I have sort of a soft spot for Snape. He’s an abusive asshole, but his tragic backstory isn’t just used to explain his abuse. It motivates the years of work he did for the white-hats, risking and ultimately sacrificing his own life.
Dursley had pretty much no redeeming qualities.
To be fair I never quite bought Snape’s redemption. He was perfectly fine with killing James and little Harry. He was fine with murdering anyone so long as it was not Lily. And he probably wanted to get her for himself, with any means necessary.
The moment Lily was killed… he did not become good. He merely switched the target of his hate to Voldemort. He was not guided by love, at least not Much. He was mostly guided by what drove him his whole life, hatred.
I believe that was the point – he was an abusive asshole who did some good/brave things towards the end.
And he only called her a slur like one time.
Yeeeeep. And his comeback to ‘your friends just committed a hate crime’ was ‘well that guy you’re NOT friends with is a bully!’ as if that were some sort of touché.
Is this in reference to him getting dangled in that flashback scene?
Just before that. Lily was talking about a Muggle born girl she knew who’d been attacked by his friends. His retort was that James was a bully and had a crush on Lily. You know, because that makes Lily accountable for his actions when she’s always telling him to fuck off.
Every time I see people gushing over Snape I have to wonder if we read the same books.
Hey, I was just thinking about how much I dislike Snape.
So, yeah, fuck Snape, but I do agree that “Sir” gives off more of a Vernon Dursley vibe.
The bit reminding me Snape is how Sir loved his daughter but hated his son-in-law and then his hatred kinda transferred to Harry.
You can argue whether Snape deserves redemption, but he laid down his life in service of the good guy’s cause, and that’s worth respecting.
Doing something worth respecting doesn’t necessarily mean successful redemption. That’s highly subjective for everybody. Just because Harry ended up deeming his actions and their relationship a net positive doesn’t mean anyone has to agree.
Isn’t that basically what I said, but with the emphasis shifted a bit? :p
If that is what you meant and I read waaaay too much into the word ‘deserves’ then yes. 😀
But was it for the sake of good… or just to get payback on Voldemort? Basically Snape has been a shitty person most of his life even when he didn’t have to be. All because of his all-consuming hatred.
Though actually, now that I think of it, there’s an interesting parallel:Snape idolized Harry’s mother and hated his father.
Exactly and still he has no love for the daughter’s children.
Snape’s whole deal was petty spite channeled into emotional abuse that he rationalized by telling himself it all went back to a personal tragedy as if that somehow justified taking it out on unrelated people.
So… yeah? This guy’s basically Snape, sure.
(I don’t think Dursley’s motives were ever really explained and he never had the screen time to present his defense, so he’s more just ‘generally a dick’ I think, nothing as specific as this.)
The Dursleys basically thought that they could beat the magic out of Harry. I think first movie might have included Vernon saying they were going to, “put a stop to this” but I’m only guessing that because the first two movies were so close to the books. But I can somewhat recall him saying that before Hagrid shut him up.
So Clint is also the Dursleys in that he thinks heaping abuse on Ruth will somehow make her not be like her parents.
I sentence Douchebag McGrampa to horrible, slow death with an inefficient weapon.
I’m pinning a lot of hope on Ruth’s upcoming haircut.
Plus, of course, the fact that she has support from Billie, medication and a therapist on her side now.
Difficulty: Ruth’s relationship with Billie is probably the strongest negative factor on her mental health, and the therapist is most likely going to recommend breaking that the hell up within a couple of sessions due to how obvious the dump-truck full of red flags tends to be.
That’s gonna be an… interesting situation now that her dick guardian has turned hanging onto her codependent bad influence of a girlfriend into the linchpin of her attempts to emotionally move beyond his influence. Ironically that’s probably the worst thing he just managed to do to her, and if he’d been a _good_ parent he’d have been pushing for the same outcome.
I would have no idea how to unravel that, which I guess is why I’m not a shrink.
I’m inclined to disagree incredibly strongly on that.
We’re seeing the strongest negative factor on her mental health abusing her in today’s strip.
Her relationship with Billie has been problematic, but since Ruth got back from the health center there have been a lot of encouraging signs that they are already putting down a more stable, healthy foundation for their relationship.
Though even without that, as codependent as they’ve been, and as much as they’ve enabled unhealthy behavior in each other, I don’t think Ruth would still be around if it weren’t for Billie.
On the plus side, more Asma.
Also what the heck is Ethan reading in the banner?
https://twitter.com/damnyouwillis/status/863570136615325697/photo/1
It’s criminally out of character that he’s not reading Chromedome/Tailgate fic.
Mostly because Ethan basically is Chromedome.
TAILGATE??
what have i done
Well going by the “DoA as the cast of MTMTE” I guess Joyce would be down for that.
for srs tho I can’t believe I just torpedoed my own favourite gay robot ship, Tailgate/Cyclonus. What kind of shipper am I.
Multishipping si good for you~
nooooooo Tailgate/Cyclonus 4ever
You just posted about Tailgate/Chromedome tho. I think I’m confused. *cross eyed*
Chromedome is a gay robot who’s in love with Rewind.
Tailgate is a gay robot who’s in love with Cyclonus.
(There is also Brainstorm who is maybe a bi robot, we just know he liked another dude robot thus far)
Transformers More Than Meets The Eye is a comic mostly about gay robots in space, and does the really wacky bizarre thing in having more than one token gay dude and populates it with interesting queer-coded characters and romances. There’s so far only been M/M romances in the series on account of some too long to explain behind the scenes stuff with IDW’s Transformers comics.
It’s basically the most queer male positive work of fiction I’ve ever seen.
You have just convinced me to read it.
You should also read The Backstagers by James Tynion IV (the guy who writes Detective Comics for DC!) and Monsterkind (a webcomic, in this case) for more queer dude goodness.
“Screw or screw not. There is no try.”
Also I think I see “Han” on the cover.
Ethan’s fiction/hobby and slash fic interests align.
…and there’s a part of me that just focuses on the ‘next time I will do the exacdt thing I’m doing lierally right now’ logic contradiction. Like THIS, this snag can be used to unravel the whole pile of bullshit… and then I realize that actually it’s very obvious that it’s bullshit and doesn’t need unraveling… except when it’s in your head, it does.
I’ll just… sit here.
Also I just read Rick Riordan’s The Dark Prophecy (the lastest Apollo book) and has anyone else read it because come cry about Apollo’s fierce defensiveness of Meg with me
Cartoonishly Villainous Parental Figures should be the new name of this webcomic.
Oh good, we’ve hit the “cartoon villain” stage as well. Just above, we have a last staunch defender claiming he’s not really so bad, just trying to help and here we’ve got the “cartoon” stage.
No level of villainy works for everyone, I guess.
I’m just awaiting someone to blame Ruth, and we’ll have all three phases in the comments.
In that he is a villain, and in a cartoon, yes, he’s a cartoonish villain.
In terms of real-world-villain he’s — sadly enough — not as unusual as you appear to think. Nor is his villainy all that extreme, which is even more galling.
Suppose Ross had left half the cast dead on the ground, what would you call that?
*well, comic, but people use the terms synonymously anyway so shut up
That’s why I class Ryan, especially, as cartoonish. I mean yes what he does, sadly, others do but more meaning his use of henchmen, his getting picked up by an underling in a car…he even has a scar now
Whereas Clint seems to me to be the most realistic of the villians and thus the most scary
*I’ve no doubt Mary and Ross are also quite realistic but I have virtually no experience of religious fundies so I can’t really say if I think they’re realistic or not
If you think using a personal loss as an emotional excuse to take your pain out on family members in the form of excessively harsh word hits the “exaggerated” level of bad parenting, then I have some really bad news for you, mate.
Basically everyone on the planet is like this _sometimes_, if you think you’ve never been this mean to a family member you’re probably lying to yourself. That’s why it’s difficult to deal with this kind of abuse on an institutional level, because clearly distinguishing between one bad day and a pattern of abusive behavior can be next to impossible as an outsider. As a former educator I can bear witness to how frustratingly fine this distinction can be and how small a difference in behavior can have a huge difference in impact on the kid, and frankly it’s not a small part of why the “former” is in there.
Hey, look, MORE horribly shitty things to say when you’re surrounded by emotional abuse survivors, under the guise of rationality but really just meant to send us spiraling into self-doubt over our opinion on Clint.
Thanks for that.
I believe Pyrrhus is pointing out that Clint’s behaviour isn’t cartoonish or unrealistic.
But doing so in a horribly dismissive way. “You’ve been this mean to a family member.” “Everyone is like this _sometimes_”.
Which is probably true, for the most reductive sense of “this”.
It’s only the long term pattern that sets her up for this to be so destructive.
So, forget the bad news. While we’ve all hurt people from time to time by mistake or in a bad moment, we’re not all anything like Clint. Because that’s not what Clint’s doing. If you’re even capable of feeling self-doubt over that, you’re almost certainly not like Clint. He doesn’t doubt. He knows full well what he’s doing.
cartoonishly villainous parental figures is the new name for my band
Clint still has Kelsey Grammer’s voice in my head.
Okay, maybeRobert Picardo.
Calling it here: Clint is the best villain in this strip
Asma’s response is the correct response.
So I misread that first line as a perfectly serviceable spoonerism.
“Home, coward”
You know what? I’ve just decided something.
Yes, we hate Clint. Yes, with good reason. Yes, he’s despicable slime.
But for all of you people calling for his death in a variety of gruesome manners? Shame on you all.
We’re better than that. He doesn’t deserve to die. And WE deserve better than to be the people who root for this man’s death.
……
… because death’s too good for him. Let’s start brainstorming worse fates.
Let’s not, and also, say we didn’t.
How about a slow, painful death? I vote for arsenic sauce on his favorite foods, with a little rat poison to encourage internal bleeding.
… sigh.
The thought of Clint’s death is kind of natural, given the number of other tumblers that would have to turn to spin the lock differently. One, Ruth’s floor-mates decide she really needs friends right now. Two, Ruth’s friends stand alongside her (and one of them punches Clint real hard for good measure). Three (and this is important), the US decides that free or low-cost college is a matter of national security. And four, single-payer health care includes mental health care. Five, Puddin-head attends a series of training seminars on confidentiality and realizes she fucked up real bad, and vows never to do that again. All this because abusers know that there are few supported avenues of escape for their victims.
He’s fought in wars; doesn’t mean he gets to be an ass.
I wonder if Willis has first hand experience of being abused by a parent or grandparent. =( He is good at portraying this.
That was super low blow.
I can’t be the only one imagining Charles Dance voicing this guy.
He’s certainly on a par with Lord Tywin. Still a bit to go to reach Sardo Numspa.
*then goes to IMDb, but it doesn’t help much*