It seems strangely personal to me. Ruth was a bad RA but most of the girls seemed generally indifferent to it. Rachel seems pissed even though we’ve never seen Ruth offend her in any way.
i vaguely recall willis mentioning on tumblr probably that Rachel was about to become a v important character in the future. Maybe this has something to do with it.
You typed “resume” as in continue, but I read “resume” as in a paper that details past job experience, and now I’m imagining her handing out her resume to other webcomic acting parts.
“Yes, as you can see, I flawlessly portrayed a third-rank character that fluidly moved into ‘secondary character’ status. With this experience I think I’m more than qualified to act as your main character’s best friend.”
Were they indifferent to Ruth? I thought everyone generally did their best to avoid her. I think RUTH wasn’t aware of it, though since she reacted to the blackmail as, “I can’t protect people anymore.” When she was generally the persson they felt needing to be protected from.
I say indifferent because If all the girls really had a such a huge problem with Ruth they could have reported her together a long time ago. For however long she’s been RA before her incident Billie’s been the only one who was truly vocal about disliking her.
…Except if you take your shot and miss with that kind of authority figure, you just draw a target on your back; I suspect this entered the calculus more than once.
That’s a bullshit line of thinking. It’s equivalent to saying “Oh, that abusive spouse couldn’t have been that bad, otherwise they would have divorced already!”
Fear of reprisal is a serious issue in a situation like this.
She specifically reacted to the blackmail with a worry of not being able to protect Carla form Mary, more than a general inability to protect. That was a legitimate worry, and Carla was rightfully upset about being left out to dry there.
Hasn’t it been implied that this is Rachel’s second go-around in having Ruth as an RA? So that might be part of it. Like it’s easier to forgive and overlook a month or so of douchiness versus a year of it.
Maybe, but back in family weekend Ruth tells Billie that they found out that Ruth was into girls together, so if she DID have an abusive crush on Rachael, it was a subconscious thing.
Could she have had experience with somebody using a position of authority to exert an unwarranted amount of control over her, either manipulating her or making her feel she had no choice about something? Coz Billie and Ruth’s relationship REALLY seemed to upset her because of the power dynamics there…
… she thought she was shut of Ruth, and had that rug pulled out from under her. Ruth was, by most measures except “she’s a character I like, no complaining” or “she keeps the floor quiet” a bad RA.
Ruth was just a bully for everyone on the floor, and now that Ruth has had a breakdown they’re realizing that they don’t have to be afraid of her.
Now they feel safe being angry, and everything they were holding in while they tiptoed around the occasionally violent authority figure who had keys to their rooms is getting let out.
Actually isn’t it kind of fucked up that they’re only standing up to the shitty authority figure now that she’s, like, had a nervous breakdown and is now outwardly very clearly depressed? Like, ah, yes, this RA was a tyrant, but now that she’s broken down to just kind of a sad husk of a person, she’s weak enough that we can stand up to her?
Like, I’m not sure if I’m articulating this right, but it kind of feels like if you want any sort of moral victory, you stand up to the bully when they’re doing something shitty, not when they’ve effectively been neutralized by being hospitalized for their depression and alcoholism. Like, yes, sure, standing up against abusers doesn’t work like that, but unless we’re going to learn some very new things about Rachel soon, it doesn’t appear that at any point so far, she’d been, like, cowed into fear of Ruth’s ability to unlock her door at any time to call her fat or something. Like, kind of, where was she when Ruth was just blatantly bullying Billie? Or, I dunno, threatening to de-femur people?
This very much feels like, kicking someone when they’re down doesn’t seem like the exact right phrase, but something to that effect. Like, if she’d said these things to Ruth when she was still a tyrannical bully, it would be brave. Now that she’s already been taken down by outside forces, it just seems sort of petty. It’s not like Ruth ruined her life or something, it’s not like when Becky flipped her dad off in the hospital. At most, Ruth made, like, a month and a half of Rachel’s life kind of annoying. Maybe we’ll find out some huge thing about Ruth’s effect on Rachel and it will all become warranted, but I kind of doubt it.
Rachel doesn’t necessarily know that Ruth has been neutralized.
Rachel may have inferred that Ruth has been depressed all this time (if she knows that suicidal depression probably didn’t happen overnight), so, Ruth’s depression hasn’t stopped Ruth from being violent and terrible. Likewise, disliking her job doesn’t mean she will improve her behaviour.
When Ruth was getting fired, that might have neutralized her. But, she’s not getting fired, there were no repercussions that Rachel can see, she’s still in power, what the heck!
She may feel the need to step up where the system has failed, in keeping Ruth accountable for hurting those she was supposed to help.
She may also be angry on behalf of others on the floor (such as Other Rachel, who is watching quietly).
Yeah but like, Ruth stepped out the elevator, apologized to everyone, and has displayed 0 behavior implying that she even thinks she holds any control any more ANYWAY. Like, this is very much a cat out of the bag situation, where even if Ruth DID try to intimidate everyone, it… almost certainly wouldn’t work. No one’s gonna take her seriously any more, not until the next wave of freshmen next year anyway. Surely everyone on the floor should be able to see that?
And that still comes back to “well, why didn’t you say that when she was DOING something, instead of right now, where she’s, just, kind of, really innocently talking about a floor meeting”.
Old Ruth would have threatened peoples’ lives demanding they attend this floor meeting. New Ruth is actually pretty timidly saying she wants to hold one. If she wants to revert back to being an intimidating figure, she sure isn’t going about it the right way.
Words are cheap, lies are even cheaper.
And what you describe happened Before her Grandpa bought her way back into RA position. It’s a pretty typical behaviour for a villain to get all meek and apologetic when they no longer have any power.
Ruth will have to Earn forgiveness and trust with continuous good behaviour. Rachel has absolutely no obligation to forgive her. Especially considering how unpleasantly the situation looks now. From Rachel’s point of view Ruth got away, scot free, and got her old position back. This is the kind of Injustice that really pisses people off.
Abusive people apologize all the time. It’s like domestic violence 101. The first interaction anybody saw between Ruth and Billie was the Ruth physically harming Billie which doesn’t help matters. Also she apologized back when everybody thought she’d lose her job.
Just as a side note, I believe Rachel is one of the sophmores, so Ruth could have actually made all last year rough too. There’s room there for dramatic backstory we don’t yet know.
But Ruth wasn’t an RA last year, so there is a limit to what she could have done last year. OTOH, Rachel may have been bypassed for RA in favor of Ruth. Or, as a sophomore, Rachel just has much less patience with Ruth’s BS and general incompetence than frosh who don’t know better.
I actually think she wasn’t an RA. But the Raidah-Sarah plot line is a clear illustration of how much damage a peer can do, even if they’re not in a formal position of power.
From Rachel’s perspective, is Ruth down? I mean, they saw her get carted off and hospitalized, but they don’t know that was the culmination of the suicide pact-weeks of depression. Maybe Ruth just binge-drank one weekend and Billie found her passed out?
So to Rachel, it might just look like Ruth is getting off completely consequence free from behavior that would normally result in her getting fired/expelled (like Sarah’s ex-roommate, who Rachel was around for!). It’s the straw that broke the camel’s back, not kicking Ruth when she’s down.
I think you are all missing the point that Ruth IS still in power. It’s spelled out in the first panel, they are KEEPING her instead of kicking her out. From Rachel’s point of view Nothing changed.
Pardon my obliviousness, but I was referring to how both seemed to be infantilising. I’m not sure how Rachel and Ruth’s discussion would influence that?
Howard’s very disconnected from everything around him in a way that might strike Rachel as some sort of mental impediment but is probably just a coping reaction to the death of his parents and subsequently being raised in a hostile, super strict environment. If he ignores the bad things it’s like they aren’t happening, right? But to Rachel, he’s been standing there as she and Ruth have a short but very cutting conversation and not only is what he says not at all connected to it, but his tone is completely off. It very much comes off as ‘not processing what’s going on’ and that’s uncomfortable.
I thought Rachel actually mistook Howie for younger than he is. He’s short, skinny, follows Ruth around, and Ruth refers to him as her ‘kid brother’. I’d not be shocked if she thought he were 10 to 12.
As a sophomore surrounded by all the drama that frosh bring, Rachel is probably tired of the immaturity and foolishness. Ruth didn’t help anyone through that, she became an example of it. Alcohol, bad decisions, violence, sexual misconduct (the kind that should have gotten her fired). By your sophomore year, some people are just ready for the high school stuff to sort itself out and end.
Or there is a deeper backstory that will slow the timeline down even further.
Okay like geez. I know that Ruth did a lot of shitty things but… I also feel like Rachel is being an asshole right now. She had a point before that Ruth did some shitty things but this is just going too far with it in my opinion. Not to mention the way she condescends to Harold is just ew.
I mean, Ruth did yell threats at everyone all the time, threw somebody’s’s stuff out the window, picked people up by their shirts, and threw Billie into a chair, when she was supposed to be helping them. I think a little verbal anger is more than justified.
Yes. And she had that called out earlier. But honestly it just rubs me the wrong way to see someone who’s going through therapy and trying to better themselves while acknowledging all the stuff she did was horrible wrong have it thrown in their face again and again.
Like it’s not so much “she said she’s sorry” but she’s actively showing it in her actions. There’s a point when being angry starts to go overboard and become just assholery.
And by the way I’m saying this as someone who has been massively bullied and emotionally abused. If someone is making steps to genuinely turn around and amend themselves I’d point out what they did initially but I wouldn’t keep banging on about it . The bullies I couldn’t forgive were the ones who never showed any remorse or even acknowledged they did wrong in the first place.
Also it just annoys me because of what Ruth just got from her grandfather though Rachel can’t possibly know that about her, so I don’t hold that against her.
What if Rachael genuinely thinks that Ruth’s actions are legit unforgivable, or at the very least cross the “never trust this human again” line?
And given the severity of Ruth’s abuses of power, violence towards barely-adult women under her charge, and deliberate cultivation of a climate of terror…. well I’m not going to say that I completely agree with that viewpoint. But I do completely understand it.
Hn point I suppose. I mean its entirely possible to think Ruth was awful while still thinking that needling her at every point about it is still uncalled for and comes across like “now that you’re not in power I’m going to bully you at every turn and see how you like it” also pulling this shit after someone got out of suicide watch bugs me. Not so much that being under suicide watch is an excuse , but if I had known someone was just in suicide watch I’d be more likely to be more understanding that they need time to recover. Maybe its because I’ve seen friends in a suicidal state of mind and been in one myself
Or maybe I’m just understanding of Ruth because when I lived with my parents and having to pretend to be happy because my depression was hard for them to handle I could be pretty shitty at times too and easily snapped at my little sister.
Also Rachel’s treatment of Howie just pisses me off because that kind of condescending shit is just as hurtful as outright insult. Even if I thought a kid was like 10 I wouldn’t talk to them like that.
I definitely agree with you on the subject of Howard, and yeah, maybe Rachael should be more cautious given that Ruth just got off of suicide watch.
(Or maybe not? Maybe the “treating with kid gloves” approach would reinforce a harmful “I’m damaged and broken” narrative? Questions like this are why I don’t know how to deal with this sort of thing.)
But it’s hardly “now that you’re not in power I’m going to bully you” because Ruth IS still in power and looks to be there to stay for the immediate future. Say whatever else you will about Rachael right here, she’s got the gonads to speak truth to power.
I should point out that in both cases Rachael’s, erm, frankly voiced opinions were topical. She’s not seeking Ruth out to harass her and not bringing it up at every non-opportunity. So… hrm. Yeah, I can definitely see it as something that could easily cross the line into bullying without much more effort, but I don’t think it’s there yet.
The issue here is that the situation is NOT “You are no longer in power” but “They let you keep the power so you can torment us further? Screw you.”
That’s a big part of her beef with Ruth. After all the shit she did they not only didn’t kick her ass out but they kept her and put her back in position of power and Rachel has all the right to be worried that Ruth will do the same stuff again.
You can dislike and mistrust a person without being actively cruel to them. There is a pretty wide gap between “refusing to ease someone’s guilt” and “telling their kid relatives they’re a piece of shit.”
If she legit thought it was unforgivable, then I would just put her in the category with Mary. There’s no point in anyone getting better if you’re going to continue to hold their past mistakes over them forever.
That doesn’t mean you have to forgive before you know they are truly sorry, nor that you have to trust them not to fuck up. But to actually decide something is “legit unforgivable” (and not just an angry reaction)? You’re making the world worse, and only harming yourself.
What that means for how you interact with the person is another thing.
Fur example, Raidah still hasn’t forgiven Sarah. She might never, and that’s okay. Going out of her way to bully and harass her wasn’t.
The way Rachel is unloading on Ruth right now might be a bit unfair (or at least poorly timed), but even if Ruth shows that she’s changed, Rachel not forgiving her would be understandable.
Rachel is probably angrier that Ruth got to keep her job, and she has a right to feel that way. As someone pointed out earlier, everyone was too afraid of her to speak their minds, and now they can. Remember that Ruth wasn’t just plain bad at it or absent or didn’t always know what to say – she was deliberately being terrible to everyone to mask her pain. From her perspective, it’s total bullshit that all that happened and Ruth’s connections (even though Rachel doesn’t know her specific situation like you said) kept her in the position. On the one hand, I see what you’re saying, but on the other, with the way Ruth treated basically everyone on that floor including Billie, no one’s obligated to accept her apology either. Some might, but not everyone will.
I understand. I’ve been Ruth too, when I was at my worst depressed a couple years ago. It wasn’t so much me being an asshole (even though I had my moments with people) but more me being standoffish and isolated, and the depression makes you believe you don’t care about yourself or others, and then it spirals, etc.
I used to bottle up my emotions until I had huge berserk meltdowns and I scared my sisters to tears or worried people on more than one occasion. Then I’d upset people even more by talking about how I thought I needed to die and stuff. I still feel guilty that my youngest sister had to watch that when she was too young to entirely understand what was going on with me.
I’m so sorry you went through that. That’s pretty scary stuff. Some things are literally out of our control since we’re not in our right state of mind, but it’s hard to get there emotionally. I hope you are feeling better now. I am also working on not thinking all the time of things I’ve said and done (or usually failed to do) in the past.
Okay actually now I can sorta get it. Now that you put it that way. Sometimes I suck at putting myself in someone’s place til their perspective is explained to me.
I mean Howard just came in with something not only completely unrelated to the conversation (not that weird) but super disconnected in tone and peppy, as if angry rants and people yelling at Ruth are everyday normal things he’s ignoring, which he is but from an outside perspective is unsettling. It’s uncomfortable and if Rachel doesn’t know WHY it’s so uncomfortable she might be defaulting to being condescending to like… take a step back because oops but also not being completely willing to let off on her anger at Ruth. It’s the conflicting urge of not fighting in front of Howard but also not letting Ruth think Rachel is backing down, although that does lead to a pretty patronizing end poduct.
maybe it’s just me, but this seems kind of sudden? how come Rachel didn’t say she disliked Ruth before?
I guess she was polite or just not into personal confrontations?
Can I just say I love your icon – I actually received that book in the mail a few weeks ago and read the whole thing through. I love this version of Wonder Woman, I feel like she’s the warrior who unabashedly herself she was meant to be there.
That’s because she didn’t know Ruth was sleeping with Billie before. Her issue is the abuse of power there and she probably would have said something before if she’d known.
Well, her very first speaking line was complaining about how Ruth wasted their time with the floor meeting, but she’s only been in 28 comics so far, so beyond that we really don’t know much about her opinions on Ruth.
While I can understand the sentiment, I think that Rachel’s kind of going over the line here. If Ruth’s being kept on, then that’s something to yell at management for.
Granted, Ruth wasn’t such a good RA, but at that point in time I think I’d be more angry at the people in charge for keeping her on when it’s proven that, for the time being, she’s probably less than fit for the job. (Though I have a perspective that Rachel doesn’t, so…)
She’s probably angry at both, but Ruth just happens to be there.
Ruth’s whole leadership style was to threaten and demean people and occasionally pick fights, and now that she’s not scary anymore eveyone’s feelings towards her can turn to anger.
“Hey, Ruth, a guy had a gun on campus who threatened to kidnap a woman for being gay while there’s gay students here. He also threatened to murder someone else. You didn’t bother to talk to the people involved on the floor because few people showed up at the R.A. Meeting because we hate you. You are SPECTACULARLY awful at your job even without the fact you hurt people to make yourself feel better.”
Part of me wants to say “HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT ABOUT RUTH, YOU HEARTLESS DEMON,” and then I realize they call her Ruthless for a reason. I wish I knew enough about Rachel to explain why she, in particular, is most hostile to Public!Ruth, but I think she’s just blunt and strongly opinionated, no matter how much less terrible Ruth is.
oh god Howard’s not far from my age, guess I better start watching HBO.
Your heart is in the right place on this issue, for once.
But a floor meeting is NOT A GOOD WAY TO DO THIS.
Sit down one-on-one. Hear out everyone individually. Listen to all their concerns.
Do NOT set up a situation where peer pressure, group think, and mob mentality can rear their ugly heads and more hesitant voices can get drowned out by the sharper ones.
hahaha this. yes. Ruth I think just wants to get it all over with but while that may be quick it sure ain’t painless. and I don’t think anyone’s going to put up with her bullying anymore. and she’s really not in a good place to be straightforward and honest in order to counteract those social forces
idk like. the floor is generally pro-lgbt and they’re not going to let mary jerk them around but like. all she has to do is have a couple of valid points, or manage to trick ruth into seeming worse than her, or lie to a couple of other authority figures
the point i think i’m making is that she’s still around and that makes her dangerous. especially as she’s someone shown to break basic principles in order to get what she wants
Ruth doesn’t even want the job, Mary can’t really hold it over her.
This actually has me kind of wondering how the blackmail worked so well the first time around. Ruth hated the job and wanted out, so why not just let Mary get her fired?
She hated the job but she feared what “sir” would do to her and the control he would re-establish over her life if she were to be publicly outed and fired.
That would involve people listening to Mary though, and she’s pretty universally hated. Then there’s the matter of how even if Mary does get some people listening to her she’s specifically made enemies with Carla, and Carla is both substantially smarter and substantially better at social skills than her.
ye but like. people like that don’t get positions through social skills. they get it through shared bigotry, and the lengths they’re willing to go to in order to achieve it.
like i’m not saying that within the canon of this comic she’ll win, but she’s still around to cause plenty of havoc and problems, and she’s just…i mean a lot of people are gonna see right through her. the people who matter are gonna see right through her. but i wouldn’t outrule her as a threat entirely, especially now that she’s lost almost everything she thought she had.
… I’ve got an alternative theory. In Dumbing of Age, bad decisions are more active agents in their own right through some sort of fusion of animism and platonic idealism. People don’t make bad decisions… bad decisions make themselves. Ontologically.
…. yes, parodying apologetics in this manner was a bad decision, but I didn’t make it, so there.
Unless it is, because Shit Grandpa will walk in, be a dickweed and belittle her in front of the whole floor, and maybe a couple of them might actually realize, “Oh, shit, I guess she learned it somewhere.” It would suck for Ruth (who already knows she’s in a sucky situation), but it might be a learning opportunity for a couple of the others.
Will anyone show up? Ruth made it clear floor meetings were to abuse and mock peopel. Why no one probably showed up at the kidnapping meeting–including the people INVOLVED ON THE FLOOR. Which is just…wow, not even an effort there, Ruth.
Didn’t the people involved on the floor not show up because they (well, Joyce) had gone home for the weekend? Becky didn’t show up because she’s not actually supposed to be there. Amazi-Girl doesn’t live on the floor and Amber wasn’t involved, but went to the meeting anyway. Sal’s Sal.
Yeah, but preaching to the converted (or condemning the converted, in this case) never really accomplishes anything. Ruth has already explained that she agrees with Rachel and that Ruth really doesn’t have much of a say in this. So instead of dumping on Ruth, Rachel should instead take it up with Chloe, or someone who actually has the power to do something about the situation.
I assume Rachel is angry directly at Ruth too for physically threatening younger students, throwing their belongings out of windows, cultivating an atmosphere of intimidation & fear instead of support like she was supposed to, etc etc.
And this is the first time Rachel has felt safe voicing her anger to Ruth directly, because before if she did so it would have been met with physical intimidation, throwing belongings out of rooms, intimidation and fear, etc etc. I think anger towards Ruth is perfectly justified.
Not to mention, as some people have already mentioned, Ruth could be seen (and I do see her) as someone whose already breached the ‘cannot ever be trusted again’ threshold some time ago.
From Rachel’s perspective, Ruth totally has a say in this. She could say “no, I’m not going to be an RA anymore,” and she didn’t. She has her reasons for that, but Rachel doesn’t know what they are.
Unfortunately for Ruth Howard actually gave up on spelling ever since he heard about that whole “so long as the first and last letters of a word are in the right place, the human brain will read the words correctly no matter how badly jumbled the inner letters are” thing. I don’t know if it’s true, but Howard believes it is because he heard it one time.
It’s not that simple, but the part about us recognizing words as a whole is quite accurate. You have to get close, though. Not just the first and last letters.
For an obvious example: usrmlabncre. Can you tell what that word is without taking the time to unscramble it?
Also, I kinda feel like Rachel is having a “shoot the messenger” moment except the messenger has just been reinstated as her CO despite incompetence in this now horribly tortured metaphor. I’m sorry metaphor.
I kinda expect Ruth to be, off and on, telling people on the floor for the next in universe week that she isn’t happy with this situation either and fully expected to not be here any longer. Hell, she may be telling the same people that all week.
Oof. Ouch. Yeah, sorry, Ruth, not everybody automatically forgives when you’re remorseful and willing to change. Sometimes you gotta earn it personally. And sometimes you’re just not going to be forgiven.
Rachel’s always struck me as a fairly pragmatic and down to earth person. Abusive RA is very badly suicidal? Okay, call the RM, get her to the hospital. It sucks she’s ill, but that doesn’t entitle her to forgiveness. She’s been screwing a charge? WHAT THE FUCK,can we say power imbalance? They let the incompetent and abusive RA stay on? WHAT THE SHIT?
If she’s anything like Walkyverse Rachel though, she doesn’t lack compassion completely – I wonder how she’d react if she knew the context for Ruth getting to stay on?
Then Rachel needs to go down to bongo at Commander Pudding in her office, not at Ruth. If Ruth says she doesn’t want to be there, either, it’s obviously not her trying to be abusive anymore. That’s when you zip it and hand the conversation over to your roommate.
Saying “Believe me, I don’t want this either” does not equal her not trying to be abusive anymore. It equals ‘yeah, I don’t want this stupid job anymore’. Ruth getting to keep her job is fucked up and Rachel has no reason to suspect an abusive grandfather getting involved. Since she calls Ruth an autocrat, it seems to me she thinks Ruth is pulling strings to keep her job.
Funny, I don’t think RUTH realizes she was doing a terrible job. Just that she didn’t want it. She actually thought she was the floor’s protector if her speech about being unable to harm Mary was any indication.
I think she does, but it’s a hard thing to think about.
Also, she didn’t have any compunctions about harming Mary. She once slapped her hard enough to leave a mark. Her not harming Mary was about her backing out out of fear of being reported for fucking Billie and drinking while acting like she wasn’t backing out.
It’s a very human reaction, really, to want to villify and hate someone who has personally done you harm. Physical violence and verbal abuse are things Ruth threw around casually. Hell, there’s very possibly people who could have been triggered by her actions. Imagine if Ruth had focused her anger and threats on AMBER. The problem is, of course, Rachel is face-to-face with someone who is also suicidally depressed and mentally ill. I feel like Stannis here by saying the bad doesn’t erase the good or the good doesn’t erase the bad. It’s why rising above ill feelings is the Joycean (versus Christian–even though that’s the way it’s supposed to work) thing to do. It’s also damned difficult.
Joyce didn’t rise above any ill feelings for Ruth. She didn’t have any. Also, as Rachel pointed out, being mentally ill is not an excuse for Ruth’s behaviour nor should that have (as far as she knows) gotten her out of consequences.
Rachel has every right to be angry with Ruth. I have no idea why people have such a difficult time with this.
I wasn’t talking about Joyce in particular but as a model of Christian ability to put aside ill feeling for someone and embrace the greater good. But I’d argue, yes, being mentally ill is a pretty good excuse for Ruth’s behavior. AT the very least, it’s a shitty thing to do at this point to dogpile someone while they’re down.
No. No it is not. Being mentally ill is an explanation. Not an excuse nor a ‘get out of consequence’ free card. Ruth is still going to have to change her behaviour and try to make up for her previous behaviour, and part of that is accepting nobody is obligated to forgive her. Saying basically the equivalent of ‘Are you fucking kidding me’ when an abusive and incompetent person gets to keep their job consequence free is a pretty mild reaction and ‘Well I don’t want it’ is not actually a thing that makes her keeping the job better. Arguably that makes it worse, since she gets to keep a job she sucks at AND a job she doesn’t want. Bearing in mind Rachel has no idea about Grandpa Shitheel, I’d say this is a reaction that makes sense.
And as for putting aside ill feelings – we’re going to have to disagree there. I don’t think that’s a necessary thing or even always a good thing. That road can lead to being a doormat. Believe me, I’ve been there. And it is possible to say ‘good, they’re determined not to be a shitheel again, that’s great. That doesn’t mean they weren’t a shitheel, but they’ve not made up for it, and no, I do not forgive them.’
That only works as long as you’re sure they’re no longer going to be abusive. All Rachel knows is she’s been an abusive bully and now she’s not being fired for it.
Yeah, Rachel has lots of evidence that Ruth is a violent bully when she’s supposed to help people, and zero evidence that Ruth can be something else. It’s gonna take more than an afternoon to live down all that poor behaviour, and it’s okay to tell Ruth that she isn’t automatically trusted and forgiven.
I wonder if Rachel (or anyone?) actually went to Chloe and talked about how bad Ruth had been? Might well have been overridden by the strings Clint pulled, but we don’t even know if Chloe had anything to go on except what Ruth told her.
I’m going to have to second what BBCC said. An explanation is a far cry from an excuse. Understanding does not demand acceptance.
I understand the kind of upbringing that creates people like Carol, Mary and Ross. I grew up in that culture. I have known a few Marys in my life. But understanding how they came to be such toxic people does not require me to forgive them for their destructive, abusive behavior.
Similarly, no one is under any obligation to forgive Ruth for terrorizing her floor. We can sympathise with her. We can want justice for her in her relationship with Clint. We can do that while still recognizing that her behavior was unacceptable and wanting justice for the students she abused. It is possible for someone to be an abuser and a victim of abuse at the same time and one does not negate the other.
Just because you don’t have to forgive doesn’t mean it’s okay to ignore the effect having a mental illness has. When you know the person has just been suicidal is just now being treated is a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE time to treat them like shit.
You cannot actually ignore the affect mental illnesses have. And, well, you don’t get to complain about someone being an asshole when they are trying to make up for it and you are deliberately being an asshole back to them.
There is a huge difference between. “Great, you’re trying. But I’m not ready to trust you yet” and deliberately telling the girl’s younger brother that she’s a piece of shit, confirming what her depression tells here, and making her more likely to kill herself.
Calling Ruth a piece of shit is not okay, but imo she’s 100% justified in being pissed off Ruth got to keep her job in the first 3 panels, especially since she seems to think Ruth pulled strings or used her mental state as a way to keep it (since she calls Ruth an autocrat).
And I’m not talking about “Great, you’re trying. But I’m not ready to trust you yet.” kind of not forgiveness. I’m talking about “Fine, she’s trying. But I want nothing to do with her and I don’t think I’m ever going to forgive her. Far as I’m concerned, she can still go fuck herself up and down the block.” That Rachel and possibly some of the others might never forgive is something Ruth will have to accept, though Rachel definitely shouldn’t be calling her a piece of shit.
I’m actually kind of horrified that Ruth doesn’t think sixteen is the age you should be watching violent morally ambiguous nudity filled TV. That’s part of growing up, man!
I never liked people kicking someone who was down.
Specially if they didn’t dare opening their mouth while the person still had power.
And there’s a lot of difference between ” you did a shitty job as RA and it’s a disgrace they kept you on” and “you’re a piece of shit”.
Well, if you decide that, keep to that decision.
Really reminds me of the bullies at school who didn’t dare anything against strict teachers but disrupted classes and bullied the weak teachers (not to mention fellow students).
Ruth went well beyond “a shitty job”. She physically assaulted multiple students, harassed Billie, made verbal threats of violence (made more credible by previous acts of violence), and destroyed personal property. Ruth wasn’t just a bad RA, she was an abusive tyrant. Her abusiveness was made all the worse by her position of authority.
Except Ruth still has the power, it’s said in the first panel. What Rachel is so pissed off about is that despite all the shitty things Ruth did they are Keeping her. It’s like seeing a corrupt, abusive and generally Evil politician not get punished for their behaviour but instead kept for another term.
I really see Rachel’s awkwardness in that last panel, as Ruth is suddenly humanized for her, and as she might have almost just broke Howard’s innocent, sister-adoring heart with the vitriol she’s been bottling up for ages. Rachel doesn’t want to do that.
Look at her avoiding eye-contact in the last panel, she knows she’s saying something awkward and dumb.
I think it’s okay to be thrown off-balance by the suddenly humanizing (and confusingly innocent) kid brother, and a good impulse to curb the fight around him… even though Rachel clearly has no idea whatsoever how to talk to mid-teenagers and comes across poorly.
I think the only reason that the whole comment section isn’t actively cheering on Rachel for calling Ruth out on being a terrible, bullying, dictator of an RA is because the narrative is set up so that we see things from Ruth’s POV, and as an audience we’re primed to sympathize with her. The story is structured to give us the most sympathetic view of Ruth possible.
But here’s the thing: Ruth’s depression may explain her behavior, but it by no means excuses it. She’s a bully who uses intimidation to keep her charges in line, crossing the line into physical violence on more than one occasion. The first time she showed her romantic interest in Billie was sexual assault. The sympathetic viewpoint of the narrative doesn’t change the fact that Ruth is kind of an awful person.
It’s going to take a LOT more than just a single verbal apology for her to earn the same kind of sympathy from the people she’s been abusing all year.
You know, I usually see the comic kind of ‘all at once’ but I do very much tend to miss details on this first view. It usually doesn’t matter because after the first glace I actually read it attentively, but this time the first glance told me a very different story. Because on my first glance I only saw up to “oh, is that your kid brother?” and automatically assumed that after that Rachel would awkwardly pipe down because not an appropriate context to expressing her very rightful feelings.
But instead, she used Howard as a prop to keep expressing vitriol against Ruth – I think Ruth spun it around to mean “he already knows I’m a piece of shit, and you don’t need to tell him how it’s spelled he can do that himself” which is darkly humorous btw… but yeah, she drew the kid into the fight instead of delay the fight to a better time or try to separate it from his presence or ANYTHING.
Imagine you are visiting your loving and protective older sibling and their floormate notices your presence and starts condescendingly telling you – right in their presence – that they’re a piece of shit (like, “you probably didn’t notice this growing up with them because you’re not very observant, but I’ve known them for all of two months and am here to reveal you the truth”)
like, this is a conflict you want no part of and KNOW nothing about, and maybe your sibling WAS a piece of shit to this person, but you’re still their sibling and supposed to defend them because they are RIGHT THERE and like augh????
Rachel is being mean to HOWARD here, and that’s imho what pings so many people’s ‘fucked up’ radar, even if they don’t immediately identify what part of her attitude is horrible.
Ruth’s depression doesn’t excuse her behavior and no, people don’t have to suddenly forgive her now, but her depression does color things and I think is relevant to how people respond to her. The floor has to know she was in the hospital for depression, and given that, calling her names to her face like Rachel’s doing seems like it’s more for revenge, trying to hurt her when she’s already down and not caring if you *make a suicidal person feel worse*, than simply “not forgiving her.” Name calling is not the same as being direct about not liking her and telling her why. I know people here will say Ruth’s not entitled to sympathy, but frankly, I find that horrifying. I recognize that in abusive situations, finding sympathy for the abuser may not be possible or reasonable, but that’s different from saying this person just blanket does not deserve it at all as if they’re not a complex human, only an abuse-machine. If Ruth’s not “entitled” to any sympathy here, what does that mean? That it’s OK if people on the floor potentially contribute to her feeling depressed and worthless? If you’re saying being depressed “shouldn’t” affect how people respond to her (past?) abuse, then why are you saying her abusiveness should affect how people respond to her depression?
Shes not entitled to any sympathy from Rachel yet, in the future sure but Rachel has to decide that for herself otherwise all her feelings and emotions are simply discounted as not important
Panel 1: Ah yes, one of the major downsides of being fucked over by the system and forced to stay in her position, is that she’s likely to get the brunt of hostility from everyone she’s RA’d for especially for their frustrations in her being retained.
And Ruth is also paying for deliberately trying to cultivate an image of an angry violent bully as an RA, meaning that folks are going to react to that and respond to that deliberately crafted image and the harm she did under it.
Panel 2: 2 things.
1) This is an important part of forgiveness and making amends. And that’s that no one is under an obligation to forgive you the harm you have done in the past.
And that’s something missing from a lot of forgiveness narratives and it’s an important part of it. Like, just because you’ve turned over a new leaf, it doesn’t erase the harm or reinstitute trust and for some people, there is too much bad blood for them to want to try and rebuild any sort of friendship.
And it’s critical because so often abuse survivors (especially children of abusers) are put under huge pressure to forgive the people who have done years of harm to us and are still very dangerous and triggering simply because they’ve found Jesus or are sick or it’s just “been awhile”. And so I love that we’re seeing Rachel holding firm and not having it here.
2) But on the flipside, Rachel comes across deeply unsympathetic because of several factors.
First that she’s done nothing to push back against Ruth’s bullying this year or reach out to first years harmed by Ruth’s tactics (especially Billie). Like, part of that is probably that she did last year and it went badly and so now she’s just staying out of the way of all of it, but it definitely makes it feel… off, because it’s like “oh, now that there’s no real consequences for telling you off I can do that now”. Which, I dunno, after putting myself through a lot of personal risk for months to back and support someone who needed it, Rachel’s actions feel… well, a little cowardly even though I can understand why she didn’t feel safe to say it before.
Second, Ruth is just out of an involuntary hospitalization specifically to put her under suicide watch. Like, that’s no excuse, but like, I dunno, personally I tend to use kid gloves with someone on the edge like that, even when they’re fucking up and need to be told they’re fucking up. Cause I don’t want in any way to be responsible for a suicide attempt. And instead Rachel has consistently been using that fragility as an opening to vent her built-up frustration of a year+ of being under her rule. Like yay, catharsis but there’s a time and place and there’s a way to say, I sympathize with what you are going through, but I cannot trust you yet or be around you without slipping the knife in.
And yeah, she knows she was in there for suicide, because she’s the one who called in Chloe in the first place and Meredith reminded her of it in the hall earlier.
Third… well, like it’s just bad timing and honestly Rachel probably would have jumped on anything she felt would finally get through to Chloe (the fact that she had Chloe’s number on her phone suggests she’s tried and failed before to report Ruth’s actions), but it feels a bit off that what she’s all in pissed off about is Ruth dating another girl.
Like, yeah, Ruth’s relationship WAS a giant abuse of power that needed fixing because of how that affects consent and Ruth has been a tyrannical bully, but like it feels a bit like she passively took advantage of heterosexism and is bothered that it didn’t work. A sort of “oh well, reporting her beating on folks or intimidating us didn’t work, ah sleeping with another student and being too depressed to do her job, that should be enough to do it”.
Like I imagine Rachel would be horrified if this impression was brought up to her, but the timing and context of it all makes it sit a little uncomfortably for her to be this all in now rather than back when it could have done more good and felt more righteous.
I don’t think you have to put some sort of “personally” on this one. Not attacking the known suicidal person is something everyone should do, and it’s not all that high a bar to reach. I mean, when you do so, you are effectively saying “yes, you are actually worthless.” You’re making it more likely they will kill themselves. Don’t do that.
There tends to be this attitude that frustration or anger excuses bad actions here, rather than just explaining them. Upthread, everyone is all about how Rachel is justified in her frustration. Yes, she is. But that doesn’t make her actions okay.
You mention later that she does seem to calm down. Well, that just makes the “piece of shit” comment worse. At best, I can only think she was trying to crack a joke. But now is not the time.
My point is, you can be frustrated or angry but not do things that are genuinely hurtful. And, at the very least, when you do accidentally do those things because you’re carried up in the moment, you can realize you fucked up, rather than seek self-justification.
(And, yes, I am aware I’m preaching to myself here. But I’m waiting until an appropriate comic to apologize for where I got out of line in my frustration about Roz.)
I might sound a little mean here, but I think that Rachel saying that Ruth’s an asshole to her brother is out of line, but at any point before Ruth left if Rachel said it, she would have been in her rights to say it, since it was true up to that point. The point people are trying to make is that it’s still true now, actually from Rachel’s perspective (remember Rachel doesn’t know the whole story), not Ruth’s – just yes, after realizing Ruth was on suicide watch, it was fucked up to let her know that she’s horrible. Besides that, being a total shit head to someone makes them less likely to empathize with you, that’s a pretty human reaction.
It’s a tough line to walk – to be compassionate towards the person who has wronged you and many others in many ways, and still struggling with the anger and frustration of the pain they caused you.
In my experience, forgiving that person is more for them than for you – it doesn’t make all the feelings of hurt disappear like so many people in society say it will. At least it didn’t for me. They get to walk away feeling better about themselves (which is what Ruth was expecting here – an amicable “okay, Ruth, I’ll listen to what you have to say” rather than a “f@$k you, Ruth!!”) and meanwhile you’re stuck with the damage. That’s why I think before they are forgiven it’ s your right to let them know how their actions affected you and what’s on your mind, instead of only listening to their perspective and then immediately forgiving them without expressing yours. And that forgiveness is earned and not owed. It’s an easy way to build resentment and hold on to pain.
Where are you getting that Ruth expected Rachel to easily forgive her? She doesn’t seem at all surprised by Rachel’s hostility, and considering how Ruth views herself I wouldn’t expect her to be.
You’re right – that was an incorrect assumption. I meant to say I’m not sure what she thought she was expecting – that Rachel would agree to the meeting, which is not a great idea to begin with?
If Rachel had such a big problem with Ruth last year why didn’t she choose to be in another dorm/floor/whatevs?
Also, yeah, I never understood this nonsense that a lot of therapists like to throw around, that you HAVE to forgive people otherwise you will self-destruct or whatever. Some people don’t deserve forgiveness.
Like a lot of people today I wonder why Rachel decided now, of all times, to rip into Ruth. Seems cowardly to me, yeah. Besides, last I checked, bullying someone into suicide is illegal. Rachel has a right to chew Ruth out, but not right now. Somewhere else down the line when Ruth isn’t so fragile, or, you know, before all of this nonsense happened, when Ruth was actively terrorising people.
Dunno if I’m making sense. It’s finals weeks and my brain feels like scrambled eggs.
I’d just like to point out that Rachel isn’t bullying Ruth into suicide here – she’s letting her know that she thinks she is an asshole, because Ruth WAS an asshole to her. It’s not cowardly, it’s just that if she’d said it earlier Ruth probably would have thrown her around or pushed her or otherwise made her life difficult like she did to Billy before they got together.
I’d also like to venture that very few people on that floor are mature enough to really understand what Ruth is going through. To a lot of people who have never experienced such a thing, it’s pretty abstract. I wonder how she’ll feel about this in like 5 years. Or maybe earlier if she’s a psych major.
Also, it’s totally possible to be ill and be an asshole to someone at the same time. I was definitely an asshole sometimes when I was sick even though my brain wasn’t in the right place, but my abuser who is also ill was consistently a cruel and mean person to me. Doesn’t mean I have to tolerate her bullshit.
Oh I know full well it’s possible to be fucked up in the head and an asshole. Unfortunately I do it to my boyfriend all the time (who apparently says it’s not as often as I think it is so maybe that’s my negative self-talk talking there). Regardless of how understanding he is and that it’s his choice to stay with me, I still feel like shit when I blow up at him about stupid shit. I think the only reason he puts up with it (besides the fact that he loves me apparently ww) is that I’m also pretty quick to calm down and when I’ve calmed down I always apologise because it was a shitty thing to do. Yes, I have borderline personality disorder so it’s expected for me to have “a marked disturbance in interpersonal relationships,” but it is never an excuse. It’s something I try to work on (and he assures me I am a lot better than I used to be. I keep putting his comments in parentheses cause it’s really hard for me to see my own actions from the outside), but it still happens and it’s not OK.
… I forget what my point is here. I guess maybe that I wasn’t defending Ruth? I dunno, I’m tired. Scrambled egg brains. Here, have some cookies.
Panel 3: And again, I think she’d be horrified by the implication because well, this is the meat of what really pisses her off. That Ruth was a bullying asshole who used authoritarian control to reduce complaints and intimidate the hall into obedience and she’s been doing that for over a year now in Rachel’s eyes.
That is why Rachel is pissed off that Ruth is being retained. That’s why she is so pissed off that Ruth isn’t gone. And all the contrition in the world doesn’t feel safe to her yet, because it could all just be the act she’s putting up now that she’s in trouble and under observation and she’s got no assurances Ruth won’t just slip into old bad habits.
Panels 4-5: And Rachel definitely has a good heart. She was angry and ready to unleash her full rage onto Ruth, but notices the kidling that might make that a bad idea and reacts accordingly, deflating her anger somewhat.
Panel 6: Like, yeah, she goes for a little petty dig at the end that is really uncool, because using family members to dig at someone is not great, but she’s definitely not feeling good about it. She’s looking away from both of them, her angry eyes are gone. She knows this is just her being a bit petty because this situation is still so very frustrating for her.
I like that Rachel hasn’t forgiven Ruth, and I hope she doesn’t in the future either because I feel that’s an important point. But I’m another for the ‘she’s yelling at the wrong person’ crowd, she ought to be confronting Chloe or someone higher up if she wants anything to come of it.
Of course she can be angry at both – like I just said, I like that she hasn’t forgiven Ruth and shows no inclination to do so. But since we haven’t seen her getting mad at Chloe or even mentioning her, we don’t actually know if she is angry at both, or if she’s just yelling at Ruth because she’s more easily available, you know?
Also like, yelling at someone the day after they get released from suicide watch, in front of their family, is at the very least bad timing.
We know Billie is the first girl she’s seen (“I think we both found out I was into girls together”), and since floors are gender-segregated, that implies that she at least hasn’t done this in her capacity as RA.
For someone who has been bullied, Rachel’s actions make perfect sense, especially since she is 18 or 19 years old.
Assuming Rachel has been bullied for a year by Ruth, Rachel is angry and fearful. It has been implied that Rachel tried to get rid of Ruth using proper channels and nothing happened. Finally, Ruth was gone. No more bully! No. Wait. Ruth is back. Worse, Ruth has suffered no consequence for her actions. But Ruth is hurt. She is currently not the threat she was. Rachel is going to take one solid cheap shot and give Ruth a taste of her own medicine. This is payback. Payback’s a… drum.
If Ruth had been let go, Rachel would not have done this. Rachel would have probably laughed derisively or made a couple of rude comments, but Ruth’s dismissal would have been enough payback.
Rachel is also changing their power dynamic, though she probably isn’t considering that at the moment.
To Rachel’s credit, she is only targeting Ruth. Howard’s presence causes her to awkwardly shift her attack. She would not have been out of line to consider Howard collateral damage.
If Rachel ever finds out the entire story, she might be sympathetic and even friendly towards Ruth as long as Ruth genuinely changes. But for now she is on the payback express.
While I have no sympathy for Ruth, (She was a terrible RA. That’s pretty much a fact now. Even she thinks so.) I have to say that the girls are a least guilty of complacency. Sure Ruth was authoritarian and intimidating and this surely quelled a few complaints, people also have lives to live, (who cares about the RA when your best friend just came out and you broke your wrist punching out her dad) BUT, From what I’ve seen no one said or did anything. I mean they saw Ruth flip Billie across a room into an easy chair! Sure Billie instigated that but it would still be worth maybe a mention to Chloe?
If someone like Rachel was that upset about how Ruth was running things I would like to have seen it. So far Billie and get this, MARY have been the only ones to even challenge her. If Rachel specifically (as the most vocal objector) was getting bullied by Ruth I haven’t seen that implied beyond anything she could’ve done to anyone else. I haven’t found a strip or background info implying she tried to report Ruth and failed. None of this excuses Ruth’s actions. I actually believe she deserves some of this backlash. These are just my thoughts. If you have a counter or example of something I’ve missed please comment or whatever. There’s 7 years of strips I probably missed something.
I think what really pissed Rachel off was… the betrayal. They all thought they had Ruth out of their hair for good. Then not only was she not punished in any way but she got Reinstated. The bully is back without even a slap on the wrist.
it can be very hard to be the person who speaks out against a leader. like. your first year in college, most people are gonna assume that the college has everything under control and that they can just trust that everything is going the way that it’s supposed to go. and if nobody else speaks up, why are you the first person to speak up? maybe if everybody else thinks it’s all right then it’s actually okay. et cetera.
i mean. this is why speaking up when something’s wrong is so critical, precisely because it’s so hard. but, like: when you have a RA willing to threaten you with ripping out your femurs, maybe…speaking up is not the wisest course of action? it’s at least the most likely course of action to bring you to her attention. as Billie found out. and not all of us can solve our problems through sapphic suicide pacts.
idk like….none of this is anything any of them should have had to deal with…
TL;DR of this comment thread: Rachel’s correct in calling Ruth out for her abusive behavior as RA, but maybe calling someone out for it the day they come home from suicide watch is a bad time for it.
For all those who think Rachel is out of line and should have said something earlier consider that Ruth has threatened both verbally and physically, has physically assaulted people and has claimed (with some justification) that the higher ups won’t listen to them
I’d say theres a very good chance that Rachel has probably been intimidated into silence, keep your head down and you won’t become a target kind of thing
In the first panel it almost seemed like Ruth was trying to suggest that they’re both in this together so no wonder Rachel is angry at that implication
Also this is the first time Rachel has learnt that Ruth is staying on so to suggest that Rachel should be going to Chloe to have this out is just jumping the gun, Rachel may go to Chloe later although why would she bother if, after all this, Ruth still keeps her job
I mean what do you expect Rachel to do? “Excuse me Ruth I’m not happy about this new information so please wait there while I go down to have words with Chloe and then I’ll come back have words with you”
There are some similarities between Ruth and Ryan, in that both targeted someone vulnerable, both assaulted their victims and while Ryan used something like Rohypnol (I’m guessing) Ruth wasn’t shy in supplying alcohol to Billie
If Ryan had an arc where we learnt some of his back story and then he apologised to Joyce would the same people on here saying Joyce was wrong if she still felt she couldn’t trust Ryan or accept he’d changed?
Rachel doesn’t have the same information we have and we don’t even know that Ruth has changed (she probably has but we don’t know for certain) so why should Rachel, who has dealt with Ruth for over a year now, simply accept that everything is now going to be hunky dory
Check out Billies pose and hand in the last panel, looks quite confrontational, like Billie is daring anyone to say anything so in Rachels mind has anything really changed or are things going to remain as they are now except that Ruth now has Billie
We only watch whats going on here but Rachel has to live with it (and has lived with it for over a year) and if she feels angry, disempowered and let down over this then she has every right to
Some of the comments on here regarding Rachel are beginning to sound a lot like victim blaming
I think you’ll find real life isn’t so easily cut into black and white with someone who is a sympathetic character and suffering mental illness. One can understand Rachel’s position while thinking yelling and insulting someone CLINICALLY DEPRESSED Is disgusting and despicable. That’s victim blaming alright but Rachel is not the victim. We don’t even know if Ruth did anything to her.
We don’t know that’s true but based on Rachels reactions and that Ruths been her RA for over a year Rachel probably has seen some unsavoury actions from Ruth
Physical abuse, sexual assault and verbal abuse to name just a few
As others have said, Ruth has only discovered her attraction to girls this year with Billie, so barring some shocking revelations the only sexual assault Rachel could have seen is what we saw with Billie.
The physical and verbal bullying that we saw especially at the start of the year were likely the pattern last year as well – though I doubt anyone last year got the special treatment Billie got.
I agree with much of what you say about Rachel and even Ruth, but the comparison with Ryan is just wrong. Not to defend the kiss – it was way out of line and properly grounds for sexual assault or harassment charges if Billie had wanted to press them, but it’s not even in the same field as drugging someone for the purpose of dragging them into the bathroom and raping them.
As for the booze, Billie’s quite capable of getting her own and supplying it to Ruth. I suppose we could blame each of them for getting the other drunk and taking advantage, but that seems a bit ridiculous.
Sure there are some major differences but, to me, both did target someone vulnerable, both did assault their victims and both used drugs to help get what they want so while not the same it is in the same field
As an idea imagine a storyline where Joe did virtually everything to a girl that Ruth did Billie, imagine what the posts would be like
Also Ryan should die in a fire (just in case anyone thinks I’m minimising what Ryan did)
Yes, and a murder and a slap both involve attacking someone, so there’s a sense in which they’re similar, but the difference in degree is enough to make a difference in kind.
And I really think that “used drugs to help get what (Ruth) want(ed)” is a horrible misreading of the relationship. I mean, I’ll grant Ruth used booze to get what she wanted, but what she wanted from the booze was oblivion, not sex.
As for Joe, there’s a big difference in that Joe’s not Ruth. He’s a womanizer and he’s neither alcoholic nor suicidally depressed. If we saw Joe doing that, it would be only reasonable to assume he was using the same tactics on all the other girls he’s pursuing and they would be tactics – not confused desperate attempts at making human contact.
If Joe had sex with a woman he had direct authority over after using said authority to pull her pigtails I would consider it wrong. Ruth should have been fired for that.
If Joe tricked a woman into drinking liquor instead of grape juice to sleep with someone he would be little better than Ryan. Ryan didn’t even have or want whatever the permission of somebody drugged against their will is worth.
If Joe convinced a woman to get drunk promising not to take advantage of them while drunk then took advantage of them it wouldn’t be any better than if he tricked them into drinking liquor.
If Joe convinced a woman to get drunk with him so they would be more willing to sleep with him it would be illegal and skeavy but miles ahead of Ryan. (Think of drunk driving the decision to drive is made while drunk)
If Joe got drunk with a woman while they both sort of knew that sex was a possibility ended up having sex with her. (and I already knew she considered her drunken permission for sex valid and wanted and expected other to do the same) I would think he needs to learn to make better decisions. This is where Billie and Ruth are.
No it isn’t. Ruth had direct control over Billie (as her RA), (probably) knew Billie had issues with alcohol and went out of her way to make Billie feel worse about herself which is classic negging behaviour
Yes, there’s an uneven power dynamic. That’s a bad thing. That’s why Billie’s being moved out.
Ruth’s early bullying of Billie is and was really bad. But it ended and they were past that before they actually got together.
Ruth did know about Billie’s alcoholism – explicitly stated when they were hiding out from the fire alarm I believe. Billie also knew about Ruth’s alcoholism – through direct observation. That led to the whole “stop drinking” pact – which Billie basically ignored – leading to their first fight as a “couple”.
When they first got together, this is not Ruth using alcohol to take advantage of Billie. There are all sorts of problems with this relationship, but don’t deny Billie’s agency here by blaming everything on Ruth. She was very much an active participant, starting around the time of the fire alarm incident. Anything before that (or before the kiss, if that came later?), is fair to lay at Ruth’s door.
Thanks for finding that panel. I didn’t remember what exactly happened. Since Billie was drunk and Ruth was sober when that happened Ruth shouldn’t have had sex with her and it was illegal. Its also not Ruth intentionally using alcohol to take advantage of Billie.
I don’t think Billie was drunk at the start of that (no more than her normal baseline state anyway) and since the scene includes Ruth taking a big slug from her bottle of rotgut, it’s hard for me to read as “Billie was drunk and Ruth was sober”.
Even if they’d had sex, no laws would have been broken. (Rules about an RA sleeping with her charges and underage drinking laws aside. No sexual assault laws.)
Am I the only one who hopes the meeting will open with Ruth going full Sauron? “You assumed I was weak. No, I’m going to hurt you TWICE or FOUR TIMES AS MUCH if ANYONE screws with me.” Then maybe break Mary’s wrist.
one leaf to rule them all,
one leaf to find them,
one leaf to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them
in the land of Mordor, where the shadows lie.
See, all this support for Rachel is mixed for me. I mean, clearly she seems well-adjusted so far, hasn’t done anything horrible that we’ve seen, but she does have a history of complaining about stuff without actually doing anything. The most blatant moment of this was after the “Becky’s Dad” arc (while Carla is patching up Amber). Rachel is loudly bemoaning the fact that no one’s going to care about the incident for very long, that everyone would rather wait around and get shot than do anything. Her roommate challenges her on it by pointing out she’s not likely to do anything either and she confirms this by stating “No, what would I even DO?”
Unpopular opinion: On a certain level, I think Rachel just likes to complain.
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He sure can spell HBO!
which spells BOOBIES
the h stands for huge
huge boobies
Ruth: Watch. Howard, spell “Dog”
Howard: “G-A-M-E-O-F-”
Ruth: No, Howard, concentrate. DOG. Repeat after me: “D-O-G”.
Howard: “G-O-T”?
Ruth: Close enough.
“You just got ‘got’!”
He can probably spell Sandor “The Hound” Clegane.
But can she do that in a Speak and Spell voice?
what’s her problem?
Ruth is a bully and a really bad RA?
Like, besides the fact that Ruth was generally hostile to everyone on the floor?
ruth was a total bingo at the start of the story
I think you mean ‘bongo’.
oh yeah! ruth was a total bongo at the start of the story
I mean…as much as Ruth is my beloved gay depressed daughter, Rachel ain’t wrong.
…. but she’s not right, either.
true but i feel that this is kind of a Lot. I also wonder if ruth has done something specifically to harm rachel that we don’t know about yet.
I’m guessing she’s got some history that’ll come out soon
It seems strangely personal to me. Ruth was a bad RA but most of the girls seemed generally indifferent to it. Rachel seems pissed even though we’ve never seen Ruth offend her in any way.
i vaguely recall willis mentioning on tumblr probably that Rachel was about to become a v important character in the future. Maybe this has something to do with it.
Oh Willis said that? Intriguing. I like seeing the tertiary players get in on the story.
Rachel moved up to a secondary-ish player in Walkyverse. I’d like to see her resume that status, even if she never moves up to main.
You typed “resume” as in continue, but I read “resume” as in a paper that details past job experience, and now I’m imagining her handing out her resume to other webcomic acting parts.
“Yes, as you can see, I flawlessly portrayed a third-rank character that fluidly moved into ‘secondary character’ status. With this experience I think I’m more than qualified to act as your main character’s best friend.”
I wish we could upvote comments 🙁
Hopefully it means more storylines for Rachel
Were they indifferent to Ruth? I thought everyone generally did their best to avoid her. I think RUTH wasn’t aware of it, though since she reacted to the blackmail as, “I can’t protect people anymore.” When she was generally the persson they felt needing to be protected from.
I say indifferent because If all the girls really had a such a huge problem with Ruth they could have reported her together a long time ago. For however long she’s been RA before her incident Billie’s been the only one who was truly vocal about disliking her.
…Except if you take your shot and miss with that kind of authority figure, you just draw a target on your back; I suspect this entered the calculus more than once.
Ah, good. Yehat Avatar is back.
This is entirely unrelated, but you having a Star Control II avatar makes us a *happy camper*.
Then I would say it must not have been that important if no one was willing to take the implied risk of possible backlash in reporting Ruth.
That’s a bullshit line of thinking. It’s equivalent to saying “Oh, that abusive spouse couldn’t have been that bad, otherwise they would have divorced already!”
Fear of reprisal is a serious issue in a situation like this.
She specifically reacted to the blackmail with a worry of not being able to protect Carla form Mary, more than a general inability to protect. That was a legitimate worry, and Carla was rightfully upset about being left out to dry there.
Hasn’t it been implied that this is Rachel’s second go-around in having Ruth as an RA? So that might be part of it. Like it’s easier to forgive and overlook a month or so of douchiness versus a year of it.
Perhaps Billie wasn’t Ruth’s *first* “Bully-and-harass” crush?
Maybe, but back in family weekend Ruth tells Billie that they found out that Ruth was into girls together, so if she DID have an abusive crush on Rachael, it was a subconscious thing.
Don’t preclude it tho.
Could she have had experience with somebody using a position of authority to exert an unwarranted amount of control over her, either manipulating her or making her feel she had no choice about something? Coz Billie and Ruth’s relationship REALLY seemed to upset her because of the power dynamics there…
… she thought she was shut of Ruth, and had that rug pulled out from under her. Ruth was, by most measures except “she’s a character I like, no complaining” or “she keeps the floor quiet” a bad RA.
Ok so we need more Rachel in this strip
Yeah, this kind of confrontation was probably a long time coming.
Ruth was just a bully for everyone on the floor, and now that Ruth has had a breakdown they’re realizing that they don’t have to be afraid of her.
Now they feel safe being angry, and everything they were holding in while they tiptoed around the occasionally violent authority figure who had keys to their rooms is getting let out.
Agreed
Actually isn’t it kind of fucked up that they’re only standing up to the shitty authority figure now that she’s, like, had a nervous breakdown and is now outwardly very clearly depressed? Like, ah, yes, this RA was a tyrant, but now that she’s broken down to just kind of a sad husk of a person, she’s weak enough that we can stand up to her?
Like, I’m not sure if I’m articulating this right, but it kind of feels like if you want any sort of moral victory, you stand up to the bully when they’re doing something shitty, not when they’ve effectively been neutralized by being hospitalized for their depression and alcoholism. Like, yes, sure, standing up against abusers doesn’t work like that, but unless we’re going to learn some very new things about Rachel soon, it doesn’t appear that at any point so far, she’d been, like, cowed into fear of Ruth’s ability to unlock her door at any time to call her fat or something. Like, kind of, where was she when Ruth was just blatantly bullying Billie? Or, I dunno, threatening to de-femur people?
This very much feels like, kicking someone when they’re down doesn’t seem like the exact right phrase, but something to that effect. Like, if she’d said these things to Ruth when she was still a tyrannical bully, it would be brave. Now that she’s already been taken down by outside forces, it just seems sort of petty. It’s not like Ruth ruined her life or something, it’s not like when Becky flipped her dad off in the hospital. At most, Ruth made, like, a month and a half of Rachel’s life kind of annoying. Maybe we’ll find out some huge thing about Ruth’s effect on Rachel and it will all become warranted, but I kind of doubt it.
Rachel doesn’t necessarily know that Ruth has been neutralized.
Rachel may have inferred that Ruth has been depressed all this time (if she knows that suicidal depression probably didn’t happen overnight), so, Ruth’s depression hasn’t stopped Ruth from being violent and terrible. Likewise, disliking her job doesn’t mean she will improve her behaviour.
When Ruth was getting fired, that might have neutralized her. But, she’s not getting fired, there were no repercussions that Rachel can see, she’s still in power, what the heck!
She may feel the need to step up where the system has failed, in keeping Ruth accountable for hurting those she was supposed to help.
She may also be angry on behalf of others on the floor (such as Other Rachel, who is watching quietly).
I imagine we’ll find out.
Yeah but like, Ruth stepped out the elevator, apologized to everyone, and has displayed 0 behavior implying that she even thinks she holds any control any more ANYWAY. Like, this is very much a cat out of the bag situation, where even if Ruth DID try to intimidate everyone, it… almost certainly wouldn’t work. No one’s gonna take her seriously any more, not until the next wave of freshmen next year anyway. Surely everyone on the floor should be able to see that?
And that still comes back to “well, why didn’t you say that when she was DOING something, instead of right now, where she’s, just, kind of, really innocently talking about a floor meeting”.
Old Ruth would have threatened peoples’ lives demanding they attend this floor meeting. New Ruth is actually pretty timidly saying she wants to hold one. If she wants to revert back to being an intimidating figure, she sure isn’t going about it the right way.
Words are cheap, lies are even cheaper.
And what you describe happened Before her Grandpa bought her way back into RA position. It’s a pretty typical behaviour for a villain to get all meek and apologetic when they no longer have any power.
Ruth will have to Earn forgiveness and trust with continuous good behaviour. Rachel has absolutely no obligation to forgive her. Especially considering how unpleasantly the situation looks now. From Rachel’s point of view Ruth got away, scot free, and got her old position back. This is the kind of Injustice that really pisses people off.
Abusive people apologize all the time. It’s like domestic violence 101. The first interaction anybody saw between Ruth and Billie was the Ruth physically harming Billie which doesn’t help matters. Also she apologized back when everybody thought she’d lose her job.
Oh yeah, you could literally drown in all the tears shed by abusers who are saying that “It will not happen again”. And then it does.
Just as a side note, I believe Rachel is one of the sophmores, so Ruth could have actually made all last year rough too. There’s room there for dramatic backstory we don’t yet know.
But Ruth wasn’t an RA last year, so there is a limit to what she could have done last year. OTOH, Rachel may have been bypassed for RA in favor of Ruth. Or, as a sophomore, Rachel just has much less patience with Ruth’s BS and general incompetence than frosh who don’t know better.
Ruth was an RA last year. That’s why she already had a reputation as “Ruthless” at the start of the year.
I actually think she wasn’t an RA. But the Raidah-Sarah plot line is a clear illustration of how much damage a peer can do, even if they’re not in a formal position of power.
Agree +1.
Rachel is showing her feelings far too late, and only now that the bully is vulnerable. That isn’t courage, it’s a pile-on.
But humans do that.
More like when her hope that bully was gone were dashed and she learns that she has to keep putting up with the bully.
From Rachel’s perspective, is Ruth down? I mean, they saw her get carted off and hospitalized, but they don’t know that was the culmination of the suicide pact-weeks of depression. Maybe Ruth just binge-drank one weekend and Billie found her passed out?
So to Rachel, it might just look like Ruth is getting off completely consequence free from behavior that would normally result in her getting fired/expelled (like Sarah’s ex-roommate, who Rachel was around for!). It’s the straw that broke the camel’s back, not kicking Ruth when she’s down.
One did stand up to her, early on: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/01-move-in-day/pun/
I think you are all missing the point that Ruth IS still in power. It’s spelled out in the first panel, they are KEEPING her instead of kicking her out. From Rachel’s point of view Nothing changed.
Well we know he can at least spell HBO.
For some reason Rachel’s reaction to Howard in the last panel reminds me of Raidah’s reaction to Dina at the mall.
…probably because she called him ‘little guy’.
And the spelling out too.
Well consider what Rachel and Ruth just said and then what Howard just said and Rachels reactions isn’t all that surprising
Pardon my obliviousness, but I was referring to how both seemed to be infantilising. I’m not sure how Rachel and Ruth’s discussion would influence that?
Howard’s very disconnected from everything around him in a way that might strike Rachel as some sort of mental impediment but is probably just a coping reaction to the death of his parents and subsequently being raised in a hostile, super strict environment. If he ignores the bad things it’s like they aren’t happening, right? But to Rachel, he’s been standing there as she and Ruth have a short but very cutting conversation and not only is what he says not at all connected to it, but his tone is completely off. It very much comes off as ‘not processing what’s going on’ and that’s uncomfortable.
I thought Rachel actually mistook Howie for younger than he is. He’s short, skinny, follows Ruth around, and Ruth refers to him as her ‘kid brother’. I’d not be shocked if she thought he were 10 to 12.
Yeah but also even 10 and 12 year olds can spell. I mean, typically.
I did not peg Ruth as only a few years older than Howie, tho. She’s 19, right?
She’s 20. And yeah, you’d hope. Rachel’s pretty definitely being condescending there.
Yeah, interesting parallel.
As a sophomore surrounded by all the drama that frosh bring, Rachel is probably tired of the immaturity and foolishness. Ruth didn’t help anyone through that, she became an example of it. Alcohol, bad decisions, violence, sexual misconduct (the kind that should have gotten her fired). By your sophomore year, some people are just ready for the high school stuff to sort itself out and end.
Or there is a deeper backstory that will slow the timeline down even further.
Okay like geez. I know that Ruth did a lot of shitty things but… I also feel like Rachel is being an asshole right now. She had a point before that Ruth did some shitty things but this is just going too far with it in my opinion. Not to mention the way she condescends to Harold is just ew.
I mean, Ruth did yell threats at everyone all the time, threw somebody’s’s stuff out the window, picked people up by their shirts, and threw Billie into a chair, when she was supposed to be helping them. I think a little verbal anger is more than justified.
Yes. And she had that called out earlier. But honestly it just rubs me the wrong way to see someone who’s going through therapy and trying to better themselves while acknowledging all the stuff she did was horrible wrong have it thrown in their face again and again.
Like it’s not so much “she said she’s sorry” but she’s actively showing it in her actions. There’s a point when being angry starts to go overboard and become just assholery.
And by the way I’m saying this as someone who has been massively bullied and emotionally abused. If someone is making steps to genuinely turn around and amend themselves I’d point out what they did initially but I wouldn’t keep banging on about it . The bullies I couldn’t forgive were the ones who never showed any remorse or even acknowledged they did wrong in the first place.
Also it just annoys me because of what Ruth just got from her grandfather though Rachel can’t possibly know that about her, so I don’t hold that against her.
What if Rachael genuinely thinks that Ruth’s actions are legit unforgivable, or at the very least cross the “never trust this human again” line?
And given the severity of Ruth’s abuses of power, violence towards barely-adult women under her charge, and deliberate cultivation of a climate of terror…. well I’m not going to say that I completely agree with that viewpoint. But I do completely understand it.
Hn point I suppose. I mean its entirely possible to think Ruth was awful while still thinking that needling her at every point about it is still uncalled for and comes across like “now that you’re not in power I’m going to bully you at every turn and see how you like it” also pulling this shit after someone got out of suicide watch bugs me. Not so much that being under suicide watch is an excuse , but if I had known someone was just in suicide watch I’d be more likely to be more understanding that they need time to recover. Maybe its because I’ve seen friends in a suicidal state of mind and been in one myself
Or maybe I’m just understanding of Ruth because when I lived with my parents and having to pretend to be happy because my depression was hard for them to handle I could be pretty shitty at times too and easily snapped at my little sister.
Also Rachel’s treatment of Howie just pisses me off because that kind of condescending shit is just as hurtful as outright insult. Even if I thought a kid was like 10 I wouldn’t talk to them like that.
I definitely agree with you on the subject of Howard, and yeah, maybe Rachael should be more cautious given that Ruth just got off of suicide watch.
(Or maybe not? Maybe the “treating with kid gloves” approach would reinforce a harmful “I’m damaged and broken” narrative? Questions like this are why I don’t know how to deal with this sort of thing.)
But it’s hardly “now that you’re not in power I’m going to bully you” because Ruth IS still in power and looks to be there to stay for the immediate future. Say whatever else you will about Rachael right here, she’s got the gonads to speak truth to power.
I should point out that in both cases Rachael’s, erm, frankly voiced opinions were topical. She’s not seeking Ruth out to harass her and not bringing it up at every non-opportunity. So… hrm. Yeah, I can definitely see it as something that could easily cross the line into bullying without much more effort, but I don’t think it’s there yet.
The issue here is that the situation is NOT “You are no longer in power” but “They let you keep the power so you can torment us further? Screw you.”
That’s a big part of her beef with Ruth. After all the shit she did they not only didn’t kick her ass out but they kept her and put her back in position of power and Rachel has all the right to be worried that Ruth will do the same stuff again.
You can dislike and mistrust a person without being actively cruel to them. There is a pretty wide gap between “refusing to ease someone’s guilt” and “telling their kid relatives they’re a piece of shit.”
That was kind of what I was trying to say here.
If she legit thought it was unforgivable, then I would just put her in the category with Mary. There’s no point in anyone getting better if you’re going to continue to hold their past mistakes over them forever.
That doesn’t mean you have to forgive before you know they are truly sorry, nor that you have to trust them not to fuck up. But to actually decide something is “legit unforgivable” (and not just an angry reaction)? You’re making the world worse, and only harming yourself.
There is no point where person MUST forgive.
What that means for how you interact with the person is another thing.
Fur example, Raidah still hasn’t forgiven Sarah. She might never, and that’s okay. Going out of her way to bully and harass her wasn’t.
The way Rachel is unloading on Ruth right now might be a bit unfair (or at least poorly timed), but even if Ruth shows that she’s changed, Rachel not forgiving her would be understandable.
Rachel is probably angrier that Ruth got to keep her job, and she has a right to feel that way. As someone pointed out earlier, everyone was too afraid of her to speak their minds, and now they can. Remember that Ruth wasn’t just plain bad at it or absent or didn’t always know what to say – she was deliberately being terrible to everyone to mask her pain. From her perspective, it’s total bullshit that all that happened and Ruth’s connections (even though Rachel doesn’t know her specific situation like you said) kept her in the position. On the one hand, I see what you’re saying, but on the other, with the way Ruth treated basically everyone on that floor including Billie, no one’s obligated to accept her apology either. Some might, but not everyone will.
That makes sense I guess.
maybe I’m just biased because I’ve been Ruth (except well to myself if that makes any sense)
I understand. I’ve been Ruth too, when I was at my worst depressed a couple years ago. It wasn’t so much me being an asshole (even though I had my moments with people) but more me being standoffish and isolated, and the depression makes you believe you don’t care about yourself or others, and then it spirals, etc.
I used to bottle up my emotions until I had huge berserk meltdowns and I scared my sisters to tears or worried people on more than one occasion. Then I’d upset people even more by talking about how I thought I needed to die and stuff. I still feel guilty that my youngest sister had to watch that when she was too young to entirely understand what was going on with me.
I’m so sorry you went through that. That’s pretty scary stuff. Some things are literally out of our control since we’re not in our right state of mind, but it’s hard to get there emotionally. I hope you are feeling better now. I am also working on not thinking all the time of things I’ve said and done (or usually failed to do) in the past.
This being something Rachel had bottled up for a while would make a lot of sense.
Okay actually now I can sorta get it. Now that you put it that way. Sometimes I suck at putting myself in someone’s place til their perspective is explained to me.
I mean Howard just came in with something not only completely unrelated to the conversation (not that weird) but super disconnected in tone and peppy, as if angry rants and people yelling at Ruth are everyday normal things he’s ignoring, which he is but from an outside perspective is unsettling. It’s uncomfortable and if Rachel doesn’t know WHY it’s so uncomfortable she might be defaulting to being condescending to like… take a step back because oops but also not being completely willing to let off on her anger at Ruth. It’s the conflicting urge of not fighting in front of Howard but also not letting Ruth think Rachel is backing down, although that does lead to a pretty patronizing end poduct.
I’d have done the same thing exactly with no differences.
The same as Rachel, I mean.
With all the patronizing?
Would you have done the same as Raidah did to Dina earlier on?
Personally I would’ve just ignored Howard and continued the conversation
Meanwhile, another SEVENTY GRAND has flowed into the coffers of Damnation Enterprises.
The man who secured the Willis Account is regarded as a legend.
Now he can build a Scrooge McDuck vault and fill it with Transformers.
Could make swimming somewhat painful.
[I think the in-book doodle should be Toe-Dad at the Women’s Rights March, wearing a pink knitted pussycat cap]
OMG, this, so much this.
I just checked the poll for which character should be doodled in Book 6. So far, the Ruth is on fire!
Ok, I’ll leave now…
I dunno, Ruth. Indiana education.
Also, do we get to play Mad Libs with the post?
maybe it’s just me, but this seems kind of sudden? how come Rachel didn’t say she disliked Ruth before?
I guess she was polite or just not into personal confrontations?
She has said before:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/ruthandbillie/
Can I just say I love your icon – I actually received that book in the mail a few weeks ago and read the whole thing through. I love this version of Wonder Woman, I feel like she’s the warrior who unabashedly herself she was meant to be there.
Yes you may say! I so agree.
“There’s the door, spaceman” is kinda my personal motto.
I should have specified: she never said anything before Ruth suicide ideation was made public
That’s because she didn’t know Ruth was sleeping with Billie before. Her issue is the abuse of power there and she probably would have said something before if she’d known.
Well, her very first speaking line was complaining about how Ruth wasted their time with the floor meeting, but she’s only been in 28 comics so far, so beyond that we really don’t know much about her opinions on Ruth.
While I can understand the sentiment, I think that Rachel’s kind of going over the line here. If Ruth’s being kept on, then that’s something to yell at management for.
Granted, Ruth wasn’t such a good RA, but at that point in time I think I’d be more angry at the people in charge for keeping her on when it’s proven that, for the time being, she’s probably less than fit for the job. (Though I have a perspective that Rachel doesn’t, so…)
She’s probably angry at both, but Ruth just happens to be there.
Ruth’s whole leadership style was to threaten and demean people and occasionally pick fights, and now that she’s not scary anymore eveyone’s feelings towards her can turn to anger.
people tend to mirror the posture you take towards them, especially for leaders
“Hey, Ruth, a guy had a gun on campus who threatened to kidnap a woman for being gay while there’s gay students here. He also threatened to murder someone else. You didn’t bother to talk to the people involved on the floor because few people showed up at the R.A. Meeting because we hate you. You are SPECTACULARLY awful at your job even without the fact you hurt people to make yourself feel better.”
No Mike to vote for. I’m sad that I can’t vote for that sociopathic interdimensional asshole
Interdimensional?
…Oh, right. Mike is wherever you don’t want him to be.
Sorta like Bill Cipher, but he doesn’t need powers to destroy us
I’m just imagining other Rachel looking at all those letters spelled out. Just like on Sesame Street!
Part of me wants to say “HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT ABOUT RUTH, YOU HEARTLESS DEMON,” and then I realize they call her Ruthless for a reason. I wish I knew enough about Rachel to explain why she, in particular, is most hostile to Public!Ruth, but I think she’s just blunt and strongly opinionated, no matter how much less terrible Ruth is.
oh god Howard’s not far from my age, guess I better start watching HBO.
Rachel for RA
First two letters of her name. It’s fate.
alliteration is our assigned destiny
Ruth, no.
Your heart is in the right place on this issue, for once.
But a floor meeting is NOT A GOOD WAY TO DO THIS.
Sit down one-on-one. Hear out everyone individually. Listen to all their concerns.
Do NOT set up a situation where peer pressure, group think, and mob mentality can rear their ugly heads and more hesitant voices can get drowned out by the sharper ones.
hahaha this. yes. Ruth I think just wants to get it all over with but while that may be quick it sure ain’t painless. and I don’t think anyone’s going to put up with her bullying anymore. and she’s really not in a good place to be straightforward and honest in order to counteract those social forces
Agreed. Making amends is never easy – Ruth wants a meeting, but she might just get one.
ye
and i mean Mary may not be popular but she’s still around and can be influential
Not on this floor she can’t
With this floor’s LGBT+ stance? Mary can go suck an egg.
That and the fact that they all know about the blackmail now
YUP.
idk like. the floor is generally pro-lgbt and they’re not going to let mary jerk them around but like. all she has to do is have a couple of valid points, or manage to trick ruth into seeming worse than her, or lie to a couple of other authority figures
the point i think i’m making is that she’s still around and that makes her dangerous. especially as she’s someone shown to break basic principles in order to get what she wants
Ruth doesn’t even want the job, Mary can’t really hold it over her.
This actually has me kind of wondering how the blackmail worked so well the first time around. Ruth hated the job and wanted out, so why not just let Mary get her fired?
She wasn’t sold on being fired until she was too crushed to get out of bed.
She hated the job but she feared what “sir” would do to her and the control he would re-establish over her life if she were to be publicly outed and fired.
Which is exactly what we saw.
That would involve people listening to Mary though, and she’s pretty universally hated. Then there’s the matter of how even if Mary does get some people listening to her she’s specifically made enemies with Carla, and Carla is both substantially smarter and substantially better at social skills than her.
ye but like. people like that don’t get positions through social skills. they get it through shared bigotry, and the lengths they’re willing to go to in order to achieve it.
like i’m not saying that within the canon of this comic she’ll win, but she’s still around to cause plenty of havoc and problems, and she’s just…i mean a lot of people are gonna see right through her. the people who matter are gonna see right through her. but i wouldn’t outrule her as a threat entirely, especially now that she’s lost almost everything she thought she had.
Dumbing of Age: Where bad decisions get made!
“get made”?
… I’ve got an alternative theory. In Dumbing of Age, bad decisions are more active agents in their own right through some sort of fusion of animism and platonic idealism. People don’t make bad decisions… bad decisions make themselves. Ontologically.
…. yes, parodying apologetics in this manner was a bad decision, but I didn’t make it, so there.
In
Soviet RussiaDumbing of Age, bad decisions make you.LOL 😀
Oof, yeah.
With Shit Grandpa still wandering around somewhere, getting herself chewed out by the whole floor all at once definitely would not be a good idea.
Unless it is, because Shit Grandpa will walk in, be a dickweed and belittle her in front of the whole floor, and maybe a couple of them might actually realize, “Oh, shit, I guess she learned it somewhere.” It would suck for Ruth (who already knows she’s in a sucky situation), but it might be a learning opportunity for a couple of the others.
I dunno if that would end up being a net gain. I’m pretty sure that would be incredibly humiliating for Ruth to have that happen so publicly.
And in addition, a lot of what Asshole Gramps does is predicated on it going on behind closed doors so he can front civility for the public.
Besides, kids at that age are petty, so they would probably be like, yay someone is being an ass to Ruth, have a taste of your own medicine Ruthless!
Will anyone show up? Ruth made it clear floor meetings were to abuse and mock peopel. Why no one probably showed up at the kidnapping meeting–including the people INVOLVED ON THE FLOOR. Which is just…wow, not even an effort there, Ruth.
Didn’t the people involved on the floor not show up because they (well, Joyce) had gone home for the weekend? Becky didn’t show up because she’s not actually supposed to be there. Amazi-Girl doesn’t live on the floor and Amber wasn’t involved, but went to the meeting anyway. Sal’s Sal.
But she thinks she deserves it. She’ll probably even try and send Billie away so that she can’t get hurt*
*stick up for Ruth.
*Joyce hears and comes running up*
“I am a C… I am a C H… I am a C H R I S T I A N!…”
Goddammit I can still sing that.
Memetic containment required in the comments section!
Level 7 mnemonic melo-lyrical hazard! You are authorized to deploy countermeasures up to but not including “Achy-Breaky Heart”!
Repeat, HAZMEME TEAMS REPORT TO COMMENTS SECTION, STAT!
Safety Dance being deployed to the active location. Good luck.
…. and my Bob have mercy on our souls.
Rachel’s got a point, Ruth has been a pretty terrible RA so far.
Yeah, but preaching to the converted (or condemning the converted, in this case) never really accomplishes anything. Ruth has already explained that she agrees with Rachel and that Ruth really doesn’t have much of a say in this. So instead of dumping on Ruth, Rachel should instead take it up with Chloe, or someone who actually has the power to do something about the situation.
I assume Rachel is angry directly at Ruth too for physically threatening younger students, throwing their belongings out of windows, cultivating an atmosphere of intimidation & fear instead of support like she was supposed to, etc etc.
And this is the first time Rachel has felt safe voicing her anger to Ruth directly, because before if she did so it would have been met with physical intimidation, throwing belongings out of rooms, intimidation and fear, etc etc. I think anger towards Ruth is perfectly justified.
Not to mention, as some people have already mentioned, Ruth could be seen (and I do see her) as someone whose already breached the ‘cannot ever be trusted again’ threshold some time ago.
the majority of the victims haven’t been able to vent their anger.
From Rachel’s perspective, Ruth totally has a say in this. She could say “no, I’m not going to be an RA anymore,” and she didn’t. She has her reasons for that, but Rachel doesn’t know what they are.
Rachel, you’re totally justified, but… what exactly are you trying to accomplish in the last panel?
I think she’s saying “damn, this is awkward”.
“…and allow me to make it more so.”
Pretty much, yeah.
Unfortunately for Ruth Howard actually gave up on spelling ever since he heard about that whole “so long as the first and last letters of a word are in the right place, the human brain will read the words correctly no matter how badly jumbled the inner letters are” thing. I don’t know if it’s true, but Howard believes it is because he heard it one time.
I can confirm it does work, but only if you are an iiodt.
Such as I expected.
It’s not that simple, but the part about us recognizing words as a whole is quite accurate. You have to get close, though. Not just the first and last letters.
For an obvious example: usrmlabncre. Can you tell what that word is without taking the time to unscramble it?
Yes, but amazingly my first thought was “ambulance”, which rather proves your point!
Also, I kinda feel like Rachel is having a “shoot the messenger” moment except the messenger has just been reinstated as her CO despite incompetence in this now horribly tortured metaphor. I’m sorry metaphor.
I kinda expect Ruth to be, off and on, telling people on the floor for the next in universe week that she isn’t happy with this situation either and fully expected to not be here any longer. Hell, she may be telling the same people that all week.
I imagine Rachel doesn’t care. She’s not irritated with Ruth being RA. She’s angry at Ruth having abused her power continuously.
Oof. Ouch. Yeah, sorry, Ruth, not everybody automatically forgives when you’re remorseful and willing to change. Sometimes you gotta earn it personally. And sometimes you’re just not going to be forgiven.
Rachel’s always struck me as a fairly pragmatic and down to earth person. Abusive RA is very badly suicidal? Okay, call the RM, get her to the hospital. It sucks she’s ill, but that doesn’t entitle her to forgiveness. She’s been screwing a charge? WHAT THE FUCK,can we say power imbalance? They let the incompetent and abusive RA stay on? WHAT THE SHIT?
If she’s anything like Walkyverse Rachel though, she doesn’t lack compassion completely – I wonder how she’d react if she knew the context for Ruth getting to stay on?
Then Rachel needs to go down to bongo at Commander Pudding in her office, not at Ruth. If Ruth says she doesn’t want to be there, either, it’s obviously not her trying to be abusive anymore. That’s when you zip it and hand the conversation over to your roommate.
Saying “Believe me, I don’t want this either” does not equal her not trying to be abusive anymore. It equals ‘yeah, I don’t want this stupid job anymore’. Ruth getting to keep her job is fucked up and Rachel has no reason to suspect an abusive grandfather getting involved. Since she calls Ruth an autocrat, it seems to me she thinks Ruth is pulling strings to keep her job.
Funny, I don’t think RUTH realizes she was doing a terrible job. Just that she didn’t want it. She actually thought she was the floor’s protector if her speech about being unable to harm Mary was any indication.
I think she does, but it’s a hard thing to think about.
Also, she didn’t have any compunctions about harming Mary. She once slapped her hard enough to leave a mark. Her not harming Mary was about her backing out out of fear of being reported for fucking Billie and drinking while acting like she wasn’t backing out.
Given the multiple times she’s argued to Chloe that she was a terrible RA, I’m pretty confident Ruth knows
It’s a very human reaction, really, to want to villify and hate someone who has personally done you harm. Physical violence and verbal abuse are things Ruth threw around casually. Hell, there’s very possibly people who could have been triggered by her actions. Imagine if Ruth had focused her anger and threats on AMBER. The problem is, of course, Rachel is face-to-face with someone who is also suicidally depressed and mentally ill. I feel like Stannis here by saying the bad doesn’t erase the good or the good doesn’t erase the bad. It’s why rising above ill feelings is the Joycean (versus Christian–even though that’s the way it’s supposed to work) thing to do. It’s also damned difficult.
Joyce didn’t rise above any ill feelings for Ruth. She didn’t have any. Also, as Rachel pointed out, being mentally ill is not an excuse for Ruth’s behaviour nor should that have (as far as she knows) gotten her out of consequences.
Rachel has every right to be angry with Ruth. I have no idea why people have such a difficult time with this.
I wasn’t talking about Joyce in particular but as a model of Christian ability to put aside ill feeling for someone and embrace the greater good. But I’d argue, yes, being mentally ill is a pretty good excuse for Ruth’s behavior. AT the very least, it’s a shitty thing to do at this point to dogpile someone while they’re down.
No. No it is not. Being mentally ill is an explanation. Not an excuse nor a ‘get out of consequence’ free card. Ruth is still going to have to change her behaviour and try to make up for her previous behaviour, and part of that is accepting nobody is obligated to forgive her. Saying basically the equivalent of ‘Are you fucking kidding me’ when an abusive and incompetent person gets to keep their job consequence free is a pretty mild reaction and ‘Well I don’t want it’ is not actually a thing that makes her keeping the job better. Arguably that makes it worse, since she gets to keep a job she sucks at AND a job she doesn’t want. Bearing in mind Rachel has no idea about Grandpa Shitheel, I’d say this is a reaction that makes sense.
And as for putting aside ill feelings – we’re going to have to disagree there. I don’t think that’s a necessary thing or even always a good thing. That road can lead to being a doormat. Believe me, I’ve been there. And it is possible to say ‘good, they’re determined not to be a shitheel again, that’s great. That doesn’t mean they weren’t a shitheel, but they’ve not made up for it, and no, I do not forgive them.’
Maybe not actually putting the ill feelings aside but being civil as long as they aren’t being abusive anymore?
That only works as long as you’re sure they’re no longer going to be abusive. All Rachel knows is she’s been an abusive bully and now she’s not being fired for it.
Yeah, Rachel has lots of evidence that Ruth is a violent bully when she’s supposed to help people, and zero evidence that Ruth can be something else. It’s gonna take more than an afternoon to live down all that poor behaviour, and it’s okay to tell Ruth that she isn’t automatically trusted and forgiven.
I wonder if Rachel (or anyone?) actually went to Chloe and talked about how bad Ruth had been? Might well have been overridden by the strings Clint pulled, but we don’t even know if Chloe had anything to go on except what Ruth told her.
I’m going to have to second what BBCC said. An explanation is a far cry from an excuse. Understanding does not demand acceptance.
I understand the kind of upbringing that creates people like Carol, Mary and Ross. I grew up in that culture. I have known a few Marys in my life. But understanding how they came to be such toxic people does not require me to forgive them for their destructive, abusive behavior.
Similarly, no one is under any obligation to forgive Ruth for terrorizing her floor. We can sympathise with her. We can want justice for her in her relationship with Clint. We can do that while still recognizing that her behavior was unacceptable and wanting justice for the students she abused. It is possible for someone to be an abuser and a victim of abuse at the same time and one does not negate the other.
Just because you don’t have to forgive doesn’t mean it’s okay to ignore the effect having a mental illness has. When you know the person has just been suicidal is just now being treated is a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE time to treat them like shit.
You cannot actually ignore the affect mental illnesses have. And, well, you don’t get to complain about someone being an asshole when they are trying to make up for it and you are deliberately being an asshole back to them.
There is a huge difference between. “Great, you’re trying. But I’m not ready to trust you yet” and deliberately telling the girl’s younger brother that she’s a piece of shit, confirming what her depression tells here, and making her more likely to kill herself.
No decent person attacks a suicidal person. None.
I agree, but not everyone totally gets how mental illness works. Ruth went to the hospital, and they let her out, so she must be “cured,” right?
Calling Ruth a piece of shit is not okay, but imo she’s 100% justified in being pissed off Ruth got to keep her job in the first 3 panels, especially since she seems to think Ruth pulled strings or used her mental state as a way to keep it (since she calls Ruth an autocrat).
And I’m not talking about “Great, you’re trying. But I’m not ready to trust you yet.” kind of not forgiveness. I’m talking about “Fine, she’s trying. But I want nothing to do with her and I don’t think I’m ever going to forgive her. Far as I’m concerned, she can still go fuck herself up and down the block.” That Rachel and possibly some of the others might never forgive is something Ruth will have to accept, though Rachel definitely shouldn’t be calling her a piece of shit.
Come on, Other Rachel, give the guy some Game of thrones. He has been through a lot.
I’m actually kind of horrified that Ruth doesn’t think sixteen is the age you should be watching violent morally ambiguous nudity filled TV. That’s part of growing up, man!
Or at least reading about it!
I never liked people kicking someone who was down.
Specially if they didn’t dare opening their mouth while the person still had power.
And there’s a lot of difference between ” you did a shitty job as RA and it’s a disgrace they kept you on” and “you’re a piece of shit”.
Y’know, if she’s that mad about Ruth, you’d think she’d have complained to the RM.
Not that Chloe would’ve DONE anything, so maybe she did and that’s part of why she’s mad?
Maybe. Or maybe she’s more like Sarah, and decided to simply avoid Ruth, instead of jumping on that grenade.
Well, if you decide that, keep to that decision.
Really reminds me of the bullies at school who didn’t dare anything against strict teachers but disrupted classes and bullied the weak teachers (not to mention fellow students).
Maybe Rachel was scared of Ruth, scared of being physically assaulted
Ruth went well beyond “a shitty job”. She physically assaulted multiple students, harassed Billie, made verbal threats of violence (made more credible by previous acts of violence), and destroyed personal property. Ruth wasn’t just a bad RA, she was an abusive tyrant. Her abusiveness was made all the worse by her position of authority.
Except Ruth still has the power, it’s said in the first panel. What Rachel is so pissed off about is that despite all the shitty things Ruth did they are Keeping her. It’s like seeing a corrupt, abusive and generally Evil politician not get punished for their behaviour but instead kept for another term.
I really see Rachel’s awkwardness in that last panel, as Ruth is suddenly humanized for her, and as she might have almost just broke Howard’s innocent, sister-adoring heart with the vitriol she’s been bottling up for ages. Rachel doesn’t want to do that.
Look at her avoiding eye-contact in the last panel, she knows she’s saying something awkward and dumb.
I think it’s okay to be thrown off-balance by the suddenly humanizing (and confusingly innocent) kid brother, and a good impulse to curb the fight around him… even though Rachel clearly has no idea whatsoever how to talk to mid-teenagers and comes across poorly.
It’s hard to stay mad around someone as relentlessly and innocently cheerful as Howie!
True. But it’s also easy to quickly become either frustrated or mad once more from those same traits, depending on one’s own personality.
I think the only reason that the whole comment section isn’t actively cheering on Rachel for calling Ruth out on being a terrible, bullying, dictator of an RA is because the narrative is set up so that we see things from Ruth’s POV, and as an audience we’re primed to sympathize with her. The story is structured to give us the most sympathetic view of Ruth possible.
But here’s the thing: Ruth’s depression may explain her behavior, but it by no means excuses it. She’s a bully who uses intimidation to keep her charges in line, crossing the line into physical violence on more than one occasion. The first time she showed her romantic interest in Billie was sexual assault. The sympathetic viewpoint of the narrative doesn’t change the fact that Ruth is kind of an awful person.
It’s going to take a LOT more than just a single verbal apology for her to earn the same kind of sympathy from the people she’s been abusing all year.
FWIW, I’m not expecting a verbal apology; I’m expecting a total and very public breakdown.
She gave the apology after returning from the hospital, and Rachel was among those who weren’t won over by it.
I’m expecting Clint to make an appearance, followed by a general “oh fuck” of sudden understanding after he leaves.
You know, I usually see the comic kind of ‘all at once’ but I do very much tend to miss details on this first view. It usually doesn’t matter because after the first glace I actually read it attentively, but this time the first glance told me a very different story. Because on my first glance I only saw up to “oh, is that your kid brother?” and automatically assumed that after that Rachel would awkwardly pipe down because not an appropriate context to expressing her very rightful feelings.
But instead, she used Howard as a prop to keep expressing vitriol against Ruth – I think Ruth spun it around to mean “he already knows I’m a piece of shit, and you don’t need to tell him how it’s spelled he can do that himself” which is darkly humorous btw… but yeah, she drew the kid into the fight instead of delay the fight to a better time or try to separate it from his presence or ANYTHING.
Imagine you are visiting your loving and protective older sibling and their floormate notices your presence and starts condescendingly telling you – right in their presence – that they’re a piece of shit (like, “you probably didn’t notice this growing up with them because you’re not very observant, but I’ve known them for all of two months and am here to reveal you the truth”)
like, this is a conflict you want no part of and KNOW nothing about, and maybe your sibling WAS a piece of shit to this person, but you’re still their sibling and supposed to defend them because they are RIGHT THERE and like augh????
Rachel is being mean to HOWARD here, and that’s imho what pings so many people’s ‘fucked up’ radar, even if they don’t immediately identify what part of her attitude is horrible.
Ruth’s depression doesn’t excuse her behavior and no, people don’t have to suddenly forgive her now, but her depression does color things and I think is relevant to how people respond to her. The floor has to know she was in the hospital for depression, and given that, calling her names to her face like Rachel’s doing seems like it’s more for revenge, trying to hurt her when she’s already down and not caring if you *make a suicidal person feel worse*, than simply “not forgiving her.” Name calling is not the same as being direct about not liking her and telling her why. I know people here will say Ruth’s not entitled to sympathy, but frankly, I find that horrifying. I recognize that in abusive situations, finding sympathy for the abuser may not be possible or reasonable, but that’s different from saying this person just blanket does not deserve it at all as if they’re not a complex human, only an abuse-machine. If Ruth’s not “entitled” to any sympathy here, what does that mean? That it’s OK if people on the floor potentially contribute to her feeling depressed and worthless? If you’re saying being depressed “shouldn’t” affect how people respond to her (past?) abuse, then why are you saying her abusiveness should affect how people respond to her depression?
Shes not entitled to any sympathy from Rachel yet, in the future sure but Rachel has to decide that for herself otherwise all her feelings and emotions are simply discounted as not important
Huh. Did not expect there to be so many “give him a chance” people in the commentariat. You live and learn.
Him? Who’s him? Howard? o.0
Comic Reactions:
Panel 1: Ah yes, one of the major downsides of being fucked over by the system and forced to stay in her position, is that she’s likely to get the brunt of hostility from everyone she’s RA’d for especially for their frustrations in her being retained.
And Ruth is also paying for deliberately trying to cultivate an image of an angry violent bully as an RA, meaning that folks are going to react to that and respond to that deliberately crafted image and the harm she did under it.
Panel 2: 2 things.
1) This is an important part of forgiveness and making amends. And that’s that no one is under an obligation to forgive you the harm you have done in the past.
And that’s something missing from a lot of forgiveness narratives and it’s an important part of it. Like, just because you’ve turned over a new leaf, it doesn’t erase the harm or reinstitute trust and for some people, there is too much bad blood for them to want to try and rebuild any sort of friendship.
And it’s critical because so often abuse survivors (especially children of abusers) are put under huge pressure to forgive the people who have done years of harm to us and are still very dangerous and triggering simply because they’ve found Jesus or are sick or it’s just “been awhile”. And so I love that we’re seeing Rachel holding firm and not having it here.
2) But on the flipside, Rachel comes across deeply unsympathetic because of several factors.
First that she’s done nothing to push back against Ruth’s bullying this year or reach out to first years harmed by Ruth’s tactics (especially Billie). Like, part of that is probably that she did last year and it went badly and so now she’s just staying out of the way of all of it, but it definitely makes it feel… off, because it’s like “oh, now that there’s no real consequences for telling you off I can do that now”. Which, I dunno, after putting myself through a lot of personal risk for months to back and support someone who needed it, Rachel’s actions feel… well, a little cowardly even though I can understand why she didn’t feel safe to say it before.
Second, Ruth is just out of an involuntary hospitalization specifically to put her under suicide watch. Like, that’s no excuse, but like, I dunno, personally I tend to use kid gloves with someone on the edge like that, even when they’re fucking up and need to be told they’re fucking up. Cause I don’t want in any way to be responsible for a suicide attempt. And instead Rachel has consistently been using that fragility as an opening to vent her built-up frustration of a year+ of being under her rule. Like yay, catharsis but there’s a time and place and there’s a way to say, I sympathize with what you are going through, but I cannot trust you yet or be around you without slipping the knife in.
And yeah, she knows she was in there for suicide, because she’s the one who called in Chloe in the first place and Meredith reminded her of it in the hall earlier.
Third… well, like it’s just bad timing and honestly Rachel probably would have jumped on anything she felt would finally get through to Chloe (the fact that she had Chloe’s number on her phone suggests she’s tried and failed before to report Ruth’s actions), but it feels a bit off that what she’s all in pissed off about is Ruth dating another girl.
Like, yeah, Ruth’s relationship WAS a giant abuse of power that needed fixing because of how that affects consent and Ruth has been a tyrannical bully, but like it feels a bit like she passively took advantage of heterosexism and is bothered that it didn’t work. A sort of “oh well, reporting her beating on folks or intimidating us didn’t work, ah sleeping with another student and being too depressed to do her job, that should be enough to do it”.
Like I imagine Rachel would be horrified if this impression was brought up to her, but the timing and context of it all makes it sit a little uncomfortably for her to be this all in now rather than back when it could have done more good and felt more righteous.
I don’t think you have to put some sort of “personally” on this one. Not attacking the known suicidal person is something everyone should do, and it’s not all that high a bar to reach. I mean, when you do so, you are effectively saying “yes, you are actually worthless.” You’re making it more likely they will kill themselves. Don’t do that.
There tends to be this attitude that frustration or anger excuses bad actions here, rather than just explaining them. Upthread, everyone is all about how Rachel is justified in her frustration. Yes, she is. But that doesn’t make her actions okay.
You mention later that she does seem to calm down. Well, that just makes the “piece of shit” comment worse. At best, I can only think she was trying to crack a joke. But now is not the time.
My point is, you can be frustrated or angry but not do things that are genuinely hurtful. And, at the very least, when you do accidentally do those things because you’re carried up in the moment, you can realize you fucked up, rather than seek self-justification.
(And, yes, I am aware I’m preaching to myself here. But I’m waiting until an appropriate comic to apologize for where I got out of line in my frustration about Roz.)
I might sound a little mean here, but I think that Rachel saying that Ruth’s an asshole to her brother is out of line, but at any point before Ruth left if Rachel said it, she would have been in her rights to say it, since it was true up to that point. The point people are trying to make is that it’s still true now, actually from Rachel’s perspective (remember Rachel doesn’t know the whole story), not Ruth’s – just yes, after realizing Ruth was on suicide watch, it was fucked up to let her know that she’s horrible. Besides that, being a total shit head to someone makes them less likely to empathize with you, that’s a pretty human reaction.
It’s a tough line to walk – to be compassionate towards the person who has wronged you and many others in many ways, and still struggling with the anger and frustration of the pain they caused you.
In my experience, forgiving that person is more for them than for you – it doesn’t make all the feelings of hurt disappear like so many people in society say it will. At least it didn’t for me. They get to walk away feeling better about themselves (which is what Ruth was expecting here – an amicable “okay, Ruth, I’ll listen to what you have to say” rather than a “f@$k you, Ruth!!”) and meanwhile you’re stuck with the damage. That’s why I think before they are forgiven it’ s your right to let them know how their actions affected you and what’s on your mind, instead of only listening to their perspective and then immediately forgiving them without expressing yours. And that forgiveness is earned and not owed. It’s an easy way to build resentment and hold on to pain.
Where are you getting that Ruth expected Rachel to easily forgive her? She doesn’t seem at all surprised by Rachel’s hostility, and considering how Ruth views herself I wouldn’t expect her to be.
You’re right – that was an incorrect assumption. I meant to say I’m not sure what she thought she was expecting – that Rachel would agree to the meeting, which is not a great idea to begin with?
If Rachel had such a big problem with Ruth last year why didn’t she choose to be in another dorm/floor/whatevs?
Also, yeah, I never understood this nonsense that a lot of therapists like to throw around, that you HAVE to forgive people otherwise you will self-destruct or whatever. Some people don’t deserve forgiveness.
Like a lot of people today I wonder why Rachel decided now, of all times, to rip into Ruth. Seems cowardly to me, yeah. Besides, last I checked, bullying someone into suicide is illegal. Rachel has a right to chew Ruth out, but not right now. Somewhere else down the line when Ruth isn’t so fragile, or, you know, before all of this nonsense happened, when Ruth was actively terrorising people.
Dunno if I’m making sense. It’s finals weeks and my brain feels like scrambled eggs.
I’d just like to point out that Rachel isn’t bullying Ruth into suicide here – she’s letting her know that she thinks she is an asshole, because Ruth WAS an asshole to her. It’s not cowardly, it’s just that if she’d said it earlier Ruth probably would have thrown her around or pushed her or otherwise made her life difficult like she did to Billy before they got together.
I’d also like to venture that very few people on that floor are mature enough to really understand what Ruth is going through. To a lot of people who have never experienced such a thing, it’s pretty abstract. I wonder how she’ll feel about this in like 5 years. Or maybe earlier if she’s a psych major.
Also, it’s totally possible to be ill and be an asshole to someone at the same time. I was definitely an asshole sometimes when I was sick even though my brain wasn’t in the right place, but my abuser who is also ill was consistently a cruel and mean person to me. Doesn’t mean I have to tolerate her bullshit.
Oh I know full well it’s possible to be fucked up in the head and an asshole. Unfortunately I do it to my boyfriend all the time (who apparently says it’s not as often as I think it is so maybe that’s my negative self-talk talking there). Regardless of how understanding he is and that it’s his choice to stay with me, I still feel like shit when I blow up at him about stupid shit. I think the only reason he puts up with it (besides the fact that he loves me apparently ww) is that I’m also pretty quick to calm down and when I’ve calmed down I always apologise because it was a shitty thing to do. Yes, I have borderline personality disorder so it’s expected for me to have “a marked disturbance in interpersonal relationships,” but it is never an excuse. It’s something I try to work on (and he assures me I am a lot better than I used to be. I keep putting his comments in parentheses cause it’s really hard for me to see my own actions from the outside), but it still happens and it’s not OK.
… I forget what my point is here. I guess maybe that I wasn’t defending Ruth? I dunno, I’m tired. Scrambled egg brains. Here, have some cookies.
Panel 3: And again, I think she’d be horrified by the implication because well, this is the meat of what really pisses her off. That Ruth was a bullying asshole who used authoritarian control to reduce complaints and intimidate the hall into obedience and she’s been doing that for over a year now in Rachel’s eyes.
That is why Rachel is pissed off that Ruth is being retained. That’s why she is so pissed off that Ruth isn’t gone. And all the contrition in the world doesn’t feel safe to her yet, because it could all just be the act she’s putting up now that she’s in trouble and under observation and she’s got no assurances Ruth won’t just slip into old bad habits.
Panels 4-5: And Rachel definitely has a good heart. She was angry and ready to unleash her full rage onto Ruth, but notices the kidling that might make that a bad idea and reacts accordingly, deflating her anger somewhat.
Panel 6: Like, yeah, she goes for a little petty dig at the end that is really uncool, because using family members to dig at someone is not great, but she’s definitely not feeling good about it. She’s looking away from both of them, her angry eyes are gone. She knows this is just her being a bit petty because this situation is still so very frustrating for her.
I like that Rachel hasn’t forgiven Ruth, and I hope she doesn’t in the future either because I feel that’s an important point. But I’m another for the ‘she’s yelling at the wrong person’ crowd, she ought to be confronting Chloe or someone higher up if she wants anything to come of it.
She can’t be angry at both? Chloe for being too incompetent to get rid of Ruth, and Ruth for being horrible in the first place?
Ruth is responsible for her own actions and it’s totally justified to chew her out for her behavior.
Of course she can be angry at both – like I just said, I like that she hasn’t forgiven Ruth and shows no inclination to do so. But since we haven’t seen her getting mad at Chloe or even mentioning her, we don’t actually know if she is angry at both, or if she’s just yelling at Ruth because she’s more easily available, you know?
Also like, yelling at someone the day after they get released from suicide watch, in front of their family, is at the very least bad timing.
Well, Ruth, of course Howard can spell, thanks to an Indiana public school eductaion.
But thanks to that same eductaion, he can’t spell prophylactic.
I’m not sure if you misspelled “education” on purpose. I’m also not sure which option would make it funnier.
It was not on purpose, but big fingers on a tablet. I’ll take the extra laugh.
I have a question:
Do we know if Billie was Ruth’s *first* “Use my power to bully and sexually harass the girl I have a crush on” target?
We know Billie is the first girl she’s seen (“I think we both found out I was into girls together”), and since floors are gender-segregated, that implies that she at least hasn’t done this in her capacity as RA.
For someone who has been bullied, Rachel’s actions make perfect sense, especially since she is 18 or 19 years old.
Assuming Rachel has been bullied for a year by Ruth, Rachel is angry and fearful. It has been implied that Rachel tried to get rid of Ruth using proper channels and nothing happened. Finally, Ruth was gone. No more bully! No. Wait. Ruth is back. Worse, Ruth has suffered no consequence for her actions. But Ruth is hurt. She is currently not the threat she was. Rachel is going to take one solid cheap shot and give Ruth a taste of her own medicine. This is payback. Payback’s a… drum.
If Ruth had been let go, Rachel would not have done this. Rachel would have probably laughed derisively or made a couple of rude comments, but Ruth’s dismissal would have been enough payback.
Rachel is also changing their power dynamic, though she probably isn’t considering that at the moment.
To Rachel’s credit, she is only targeting Ruth. Howard’s presence causes her to awkwardly shift her attack. She would not have been out of line to consider Howard collateral damage.
If Rachel ever finds out the entire story, she might be sympathetic and even friendly towards Ruth as long as Ruth genuinely changes. But for now she is on the payback express.
I’m pretty sure thinking of other people as collateral damage is ALWAYS out of line. But maybe that’s just me.
“But they starts with thinking about people as things.”
I’m just glad that Ruth’s eyes appear to be staying green for good now. <3
While I have no sympathy for Ruth, (She was a terrible RA. That’s pretty much a fact now. Even she thinks so.) I have to say that the girls are a least guilty of complacency. Sure Ruth was authoritarian and intimidating and this surely quelled a few complaints, people also have lives to live, (who cares about the RA when your best friend just came out and you broke your wrist punching out her dad) BUT, From what I’ve seen no one said or did anything. I mean they saw Ruth flip Billie across a room into an easy chair! Sure Billie instigated that but it would still be worth maybe a mention to Chloe?
If someone like Rachel was that upset about how Ruth was running things I would like to have seen it. So far Billie and get this, MARY have been the only ones to even challenge her. If Rachel specifically (as the most vocal objector) was getting bullied by Ruth I haven’t seen that implied beyond anything she could’ve done to anyone else. I haven’t found a strip or background info implying she tried to report Ruth and failed. None of this excuses Ruth’s actions. I actually believe she deserves some of this backlash. These are just my thoughts. If you have a counter or example of something I’ve missed please comment or whatever. There’s 7 years of strips I probably missed something.
I think what really pissed Rachel off was… the betrayal. They all thought they had Ruth out of their hair for good. Then not only was she not punished in any way but she got Reinstated. The bully is back without even a slap on the wrist.
it can be very hard to be the person who speaks out against a leader. like. your first year in college, most people are gonna assume that the college has everything under control and that they can just trust that everything is going the way that it’s supposed to go. and if nobody else speaks up, why are you the first person to speak up? maybe if everybody else thinks it’s all right then it’s actually okay. et cetera.
i mean. this is why speaking up when something’s wrong is so critical, precisely because it’s so hard. but, like: when you have a RA willing to threaten you with ripping out your femurs, maybe…speaking up is not the wisest course of action? it’s at least the most likely course of action to bring you to her attention. as Billie found out. and not all of us can solve our problems through sapphic suicide pacts.
idk like….none of this is anything any of them should have had to deal with…
TL;DR of this comment thread: Rachel’s correct in calling Ruth out for her abusive behavior as RA, but maybe calling someone out for it the day they come home from suicide watch is a bad time for it.
That about sum it up?
For all those who think Rachel is out of line and should have said something earlier consider that Ruth has threatened both verbally and physically, has physically assaulted people and has claimed (with some justification) that the higher ups won’t listen to them
I’d say theres a very good chance that Rachel has probably been intimidated into silence, keep your head down and you won’t become a target kind of thing
In the first panel it almost seemed like Ruth was trying to suggest that they’re both in this together so no wonder Rachel is angry at that implication
Also this is the first time Rachel has learnt that Ruth is staying on so to suggest that Rachel should be going to Chloe to have this out is just jumping the gun, Rachel may go to Chloe later although why would she bother if, after all this, Ruth still keeps her job
I mean what do you expect Rachel to do? “Excuse me Ruth I’m not happy about this new information so please wait there while I go down to have words with Chloe and then I’ll come back have words with you”
There are some similarities between Ruth and Ryan, in that both targeted someone vulnerable, both assaulted their victims and while Ryan used something like Rohypnol (I’m guessing) Ruth wasn’t shy in supplying alcohol to Billie
If Ryan had an arc where we learnt some of his back story and then he apologised to Joyce would the same people on here saying Joyce was wrong if she still felt she couldn’t trust Ryan or accept he’d changed?
Rachel doesn’t have the same information we have and we don’t even know that Ruth has changed (she probably has but we don’t know for certain) so why should Rachel, who has dealt with Ruth for over a year now, simply accept that everything is now going to be hunky dory
Rachel may well be thinking that, eventually, Ruth will show her true colours and go back to being the same bully she always was (in Rachels mind) and remember the scene where Ruth comes back and Billies stands beside her: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/hair-3/
Check out Billies pose and hand in the last panel, looks quite confrontational, like Billie is daring anyone to say anything so in Rachels mind has anything really changed or are things going to remain as they are now except that Ruth now has Billie
We only watch whats going on here but Rachel has to live with it (and has lived with it for over a year) and if she feels angry, disempowered and let down over this then she has every right to
Some of the comments on here regarding Rachel are beginning to sound a lot like victim blaming
I think you’ll find real life isn’t so easily cut into black and white with someone who is a sympathetic character and suffering mental illness. One can understand Rachel’s position while thinking yelling and insulting someone CLINICALLY DEPRESSED Is disgusting and despicable. That’s victim blaming alright but Rachel is not the victim. We don’t even know if Ruth did anything to her.
That is true, both Rachel and Ruth are victims
We don’t know that’s true but based on Rachels reactions and that Ruths been her RA for over a year Rachel probably has seen some unsavoury actions from Ruth
Physical abuse, sexual assault and verbal abuse to name just a few
As others have said, Ruth has only discovered her attraction to girls this year with Billie, so barring some shocking revelations the only sexual assault Rachel could have seen is what we saw with Billie.
The physical and verbal bullying that we saw especially at the start of the year were likely the pattern last year as well – though I doubt anyone last year got the special treatment Billie got.
I think it comes in all forms, I mean this to me is pretty damn embarrassing, like treating them like little kids
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/01-move-in-day/stragglers/
Not excusing Marys behaviour at all but I’m not surprised she has a dislike of Ruth
16?
My god, that explains the shorts…
I agree with much of what you say about Rachel and even Ruth, but the comparison with Ryan is just wrong. Not to defend the kiss – it was way out of line and properly grounds for sexual assault or harassment charges if Billie had wanted to press them, but it’s not even in the same field as drugging someone for the purpose of dragging them into the bathroom and raping them.
As for the booze, Billie’s quite capable of getting her own and supplying it to Ruth. I suppose we could blame each of them for getting the other drunk and taking advantage, but that seems a bit ridiculous.
This was supposed to be a reply to chris73.
Sure there are some major differences but, to me, both did target someone vulnerable, both did assault their victims and both used drugs to help get what they want so while not the same it is in the same field
As an idea imagine a storyline where Joe did virtually everything to a girl that Ruth did Billie, imagine what the posts would be like
Also Ryan should die in a fire (just in case anyone thinks I’m minimising what Ryan did)
Yes, and a murder and a slap both involve attacking someone, so there’s a sense in which they’re similar, but the difference in degree is enough to make a difference in kind.
And I really think that “used drugs to help get what (Ruth) want(ed)” is a horrible misreading of the relationship. I mean, I’ll grant Ruth used booze to get what she wanted, but what she wanted from the booze was oblivion, not sex.
As for Joe, there’s a big difference in that Joe’s not Ruth. He’s a womanizer and he’s neither alcoholic nor suicidally depressed. If we saw Joe doing that, it would be only reasonable to assume he was using the same tactics on all the other girls he’s pursuing and they would be tactics – not confused desperate attempts at making human contact.
Her response to Billie asking her what she wants was to forcibly kiss her so I’d suggest that getting some was probably pretty important
No drugs involved there.
Not saying she didn’t want Billie, just that wasn’t what the booze was for.
Well sure ok I concede in that particular instance booze wasn’t used
If Joe had sex with a woman he had direct authority over after using said authority to pull her pigtails I would consider it wrong. Ruth should have been fired for that.
If Joe tricked a woman into drinking liquor instead of grape juice to sleep with someone he would be little better than Ryan. Ryan didn’t even have or want whatever the permission of somebody drugged against their will is worth.
If Joe convinced a woman to get drunk promising not to take advantage of them while drunk then took advantage of them it wouldn’t be any better than if he tricked them into drinking liquor.
If Joe convinced a woman to get drunk with him so they would be more willing to sleep with him it would be illegal and skeavy but miles ahead of Ryan. (Think of drunk driving the decision to drive is made while drunk)
If Joe got drunk with a woman while they both sort of knew that sex was a possibility ended up having sex with her. (and I already knew she considered her drunken permission for sex valid and wanted and expected other to do the same) I would think he needs to learn to make better decisions. This is where Billie and Ruth are.
No it isn’t. Ruth had direct control over Billie (as her RA), (probably) knew Billie had issues with alcohol and went out of her way to make Billie feel worse about herself which is classic negging behaviour
As Rachel put it here:http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/ruthandbillie/ “Uneven power dynamic”
Incidentally panels three and four neatly sum up the comments section in regards to Ruth and Billie
Yes, there’s an uneven power dynamic. That’s a bad thing. That’s why Billie’s being moved out.
Ruth’s early bullying of Billie is and was really bad. But it ended and they were past that before they actually got together.
Ruth did know about Billie’s alcoholism – explicitly stated when they were hiding out from the fire alarm I believe. Billie also knew about Ruth’s alcoholism – through direct observation. That led to the whole “stop drinking” pact – which Billie basically ignored – leading to their first fight as a “couple”.
When they first got together, this is not Ruth using alcohol to take advantage of Billie. There are all sorts of problems with this relationship, but don’t deny Billie’s agency here by blaming everything on Ruth. She was very much an active participant, starting around the time of the fire alarm incident. Anything before that (or before the kiss, if that came later?), is fair to lay at Ruth’s door.
No its not all Ruths fault however she was in a position of responsibility over Billie so she (Ruth) needs to take more of the blame
Thanks for finding that panel. I didn’t remember what exactly happened. Since Billie was drunk and Ruth was sober when that happened Ruth shouldn’t have had sex with her and it was illegal. Its also not Ruth intentionally using alcohol to take advantage of Billie.
they…. also didn’t have sex
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/march/
Thanks
I don’t think Billie was drunk at the start of that (no more than her normal baseline state anyway) and since the scene includes Ruth taking a big slug from her bottle of rotgut, it’s hard for me to read as “Billie was drunk and Ruth was sober”.
Even if they’d had sex, no laws would have been broken. (Rules about an RA sleeping with her charges and underage drinking laws aside. No sexual assault laws.)
god… i got so excited at seeing rachel… it’s always the minor characters
Your grav is perfect for this.
Am I the only one who hopes the meeting will open with Ruth going full Sauron? “You assumed I was weak. No, I’m going to hurt you TWICE or FOUR TIMES AS MUCH if ANYONE screws with me.” Then maybe break Mary’s wrist.
🙂
Not sure that would fit in with the comics main tone of redemption…it would, however, be damn funny 🙂
so is she going to turn into a giant eyeball? *preps with Visine*
If so, what will Ruth’s ultimate artifact of infinite power be?
The One Leaf?
one leaf to rule them all,
one leaf to find them,
one leaf to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them
in the land of Mordor, where the shadows lie.
See, all this support for Rachel is mixed for me. I mean, clearly she seems well-adjusted so far, hasn’t done anything horrible that we’ve seen, but she does have a history of complaining about stuff without actually doing anything. The most blatant moment of this was after the “Becky’s Dad” arc (while Carla is patching up Amber). Rachel is loudly bemoaning the fact that no one’s going to care about the incident for very long, that everyone would rather wait around and get shot than do anything. Her roommate challenges her on it by pointing out she’s not likely to do anything either and she confirms this by stating “No, what would I even DO?”
Unpopular opinion: On a certain level, I think Rachel just likes to complain.