It’s the final week of the Dumbing of Age Book 6 Kickstarter, and I’m taking inventory of all of the character magnets we’ve unlocked so far though stretch goals. (And we’re pretty close to unlocking Joe and Jacob as well.) Let’s see, we got:
- Becky (comes free with any pledge which involves me mailing you a physical object)
- Jocelyne
- Carla
- Raptor Attack Dina
- Leslie
- Robin
- Monkey Master
- Dexter
- Joyce
- Galasso
daaaaaaaang
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♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ LEGALLY QUESTIONABLE OTP ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
(j/k I’m p sure they’re both >18 IS OKAYS)
…
TWINSIES
4000% twinsies
If they were any twinsier, Leslie’s hair would be red.
Not if Becky is actually taking her class it isn’t. Other than that if they’re over 18 I don’t think it matters if they’re a student as long as they’re not you’re student.
Your damn it. I shouldn’t type tired I always typo more.
Becky couldn’t afford the books let alone actually paying for classes.
She’ll need a lot of financial aid, but it’s not impossible. That seems to be her plan at least
One step at a time, she needs to get her housing situation sorted out first. She’s got her income from waitressing at Galasso’s, which should give her enough of a budget to find shared housing or a studio plus leave headroom to build savings. There are plenty of rooms and 1-bedroom apartments listed on Bloomington Craigslist for what look like reasonable, certainly attainable prices (at least compared to my area). The market might be a little thinner in-comic, since it’s fall and all the sophomores, juniors, and seniors are back again.
Remember, her father probably co-signed the financial aid (student loans) that paid for Anderson. Everything offered on the paperwork they signed was based on his credit, with the additional liability of her projected future financial situation. Becky wants nothing to do with him anymore so she’ll have to apply on her own, with no tangible assets to her name and no credit history.
Room and board is typically your biggest cost for college anyway. In my experience dorms work out close to $1500/mo, the price for a 2-bedroom or one floor of a triple-decker off campus. IRL IU generally requires all first year undergrads to live on campus for at least 2 semesters, though they make exceptions on a case-by-case basis. If she can get affordable housing and the staff make an exception on financial grounds, she should be able to attend classes for just the cost of tuition and supplies.
Disclaimer: I am not an accountant, just a Jack Benny level cheapskate.
Looks like the average for a studio apartment in Bloomington is . . . 600 dollars?
. . .
Yeah, that’s not affordable on part time minimum wage.
Good gravy, where I am in SW MI, I can get a two-bedroom (I use one for an office) for under $700 a month, and it’s in a “metro area” with a major college.
Maybe it’s availability of units? Monroe county (where Bloomington is) has barely more than half the population of this county, but the university enrollment is actually twice as high, so maybe the college population dominates the housing economics of the area more than it does here.
You’re serious? Those are prices Americans actually pay for renting a dormroom for a month?
That’s…
How is that even possible for parents to pay for one kid, let out if you have more than one at college age?
The KUB is one of Belgium’s most prestigious universities and their prices come down to:
Bachelor €230 (basic) + €11 (per studypoint)
Master €230 (basic) + €11 (per studypoint)
PhD €445 (first and last jaar)
And those are the prices for a year.
Dorms are the big expense there as well I’d imagine, and in Brussels:
for a furnished student room you pay €350 to €450, charges included
for a furnished short-term studio (6 months to 1 year) €450 to €700, charges not included
for a non-furnished long-term studio €600, charges not included
And those are considered high here, with it being Brussels and all that…
It can be far worse in private colleges, and the prices inflate every year.
Families use their life savings on it, and/or you get a whole lot of student debt, and/or schools with big endowments give you some as financial aid.
Back in the day, colleges cost far far less, and it was actually possible to work your way through school. The expectation was that you’d get a summer job or take a loan, but you’d be really hirable for well-paid careers after college, so it would be pretty easy to gradually pay it back. That’s no longer so true, people are made to take huge loans, and if you get a job afterwards, it takes many many years to pay it back.
Private schools scare the hell out of me. There are many that are honorable, but there are a number of for-profit operators that *encourage* students to sign up for more and more loans, and steer students toward the riskiest loans, to increase their profit margins.
Yup, my daughter’s student loans and other accumulated debt is going to take her twice as long to pay off as it took her to get her B. Comm in the first place, and that doesn’t include the shit ton of money we put in.
“How is that even possible for parents to pay for one kid, let out if you have more than one at college age?”
Debt, mostly.
I’m extraordinarily lucky that my family had the money to put me through college debt-free. I mean, I took community college before transferring to a state university and lived at home the whole time, which cut WAY down on costs (and this was in the Los Angeles area, where housing prices are exorbitant. It also helped that the university I went to is highly rated for not excessively loading students down and helping them get jobs, but jeebus the amount of debt some of my friends graduated with is frightening. At CSU, I was paying about $3000 per semester, before books and gas, though most of that was helped by a Pell Grant too.
You’d think that even those people who aren’t in college themselves would instantly vote for any candidate willing to lower down the cost of college, just in case they might one day have kids. I mean, it’s how we keep our university costs at a reasonable amount, and it’s not like American universities are any better than European ones.
What worries me most, is how many American universities are more focused on how much they can spend on their sport teams, than how much they spend on actual education in the first place.
You’re forgetting that a lot of rich people like to stay better than everyone else, Lilaeth. So they push the idea that it’s bad to accept “handouts.”
Nevermind that the same people usually accept FAFSA. Which, if you have a cheap enough (community) college, can actually cover it all.
This is why the joke exists that all millennials are drowning in student debt.
It’s funny because it’s true!
The prices for university education have gone up at a bit more than twice the rate of inflation for the last ~25 years in the US. Like health care (which also “mysteriously” rises at a rate far higher than inflation), there’s a lot of bleating about how to cover that cost, and almost no attention paid to figuring out or addressing why the cost is bloating out of control.
In both cases, all the talk about how to cover the costs is pretty much rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
“How is that even possible for parents to pay for one kid, let out if you have more than one at college age?”
Debt. Tons and tons of debt. That no one reasonably expects will ever actually get paid. Capitalism is a farce.
My two kids overlapped two years in there post secondary education. Finances got very tight for me.
How is this “capitalism” when it’s state universities and government-enforced student debt?
@Killjoy: Because most student loans aren’t actually from the government, even if they’re backed by it.
The government covers the risk, but private companies collect the interest, while the law makes student debt nearly impossible to escape.
It may be legal, but it still breaks the “half your age plus seven” rule.
Better throw in some time-travel shenanigans! 😉
So Leslie’s lower limit is 22.
I don’t think half plus seven applies to gay people because their pool is much more limited so they probably don’t care about that particular bit of decorum.
I disagree intensely with that. Smaller dating pools don’t make potential for abuse/uneven power dynamics any less between an 18 year old and a 30 year old. I think people would be justified keeping a closer eye on them for red flags on grounds of age. It wouldn’t bother me if Becky were like 25-26, but she’s not.
Also, age of consent laws are a thing for a reason. If it goes beneath it, that’s a ‘back off’ sign.
30 with 18? Usually too much of a gap in life experience.
But, I’m of the opinion that once both people are at “out of college” age, then they’re fully adults that have to deal with far bigger risks and decisions every day, and it’s their own damn business who they date or what the age gap is.
Exactly.
I just threw out 25-26 as an example. It’d still be a bit much if she were just fresh out of college – that’s still ‘find job, find house, get life settled’ territory and Leslie’s got all that done. That still sounds like a good recipe for predatory fucks who like to prey on younger folks. That said, I’d be less uncomfortable than if they were 18. I’d be watching for red flags for a while, but I’d be much more quickly satisfied that there wasn’t a problem.
Sometimes it can work out and, as long as everyone’s consenting (and no, someone under the age of consent is BY DEFINITION not consenting) it is up to them to decide they’re willing to try. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be suspicious of Leslie dating so much younger until I was satisfied she wasn’t a creep.
You make it sound like there’s only hundreds of them. Which wouldn’t make it okay then, either. It’s still liking someone, I think all the same rules apply.
And yeah, consent. It’s a thing.
Depending on your locality there might be only hundreds of them or even fewer. No matter where you are the dating pool is much smaller: something on the order of a factor of 30 if we focus on people who identify as gay or lesbian.
I have a friend who just married a man more than twice his age. They make each other incredibly happy (The friend is objectively happier even when not with their partner). Age was a bit of a concern when they first started dating, but ultimately they realized that they liked each other and that they were tired of being alone. And then they fell in love!
Yeah, I see that excuse used often enough. Age differences might lose meaning, once the youngest of the two passes 21, at the very least, but as long as one of the two is still under twenty, I’d say that any age difference higher than three to five years, there’s a difference in terms of understanding and consent. And it would definitely be taking advantage of the other, on the older partner’s side
My own person limit as a lesbian right now at 24 is two years or so younger than me. I definitely am not dating someone I can’t hang at a bar with, especially since so much of the gay scene is at bars and clubs. Also, having been the victim of power-imbalanced relationships that were just two years older than me, I’m definitely not risking a cycle. Also, dating someone in their first years of college squicks me out for some reason.
Honestly, I think everyone should have a Two-Years-In-Either-Direction-Until-25 rule, because we’re all inexperienced idiots in relationships and adulthood. After than, date whoever the hell you want above 25, as long as there aren’t other imbalances to consider. But even if I sideye at times, I don’t force the rule on anyone.
(Also, it’s a bit condescending to assume the collective habits of a demographic)
Yes, for me it’s important to be in the same life stage. I could date somebody in grad school, or beginning their careers, but absolutely not in undergrad (even if all those people were the same age).
I dunno. I wouldn’t date anyone in college now, cause I’m years out of college.
But when I was just out of college I dated a girl who was still in school – we’d met when she was a freshman and I was a senior, but didn’t actually start dating till the next year. We had a bunch of mutual friends and stayed in the same circles. Lasted until she was out of school.
Strict limits like that seem weird to me. As long you’re basically in the same overlapping age circles, you kind of get grandfathered in.
It’s not actually strict, it’s just what’s roughly right for me (30, gradschool after odd life experiences).
I’ve also never yet dated somebody who has dependents — I’d consider it, but they’d probably find me a bit too immature!
I wonder if this was the mindset of the 28-year-old who asked me out when I was 18. I was surprised enough that I just flat out said, “You’re too old for me.”
Which she then treated like it was absurd.
…
The thought of this ship makes my skin want to crawl off and into a hole. If Becky weren’t planning to be a student here, I wouldn’t care as much, but she is. So I do.
Yeeah, I definitely prefer the platonic-adult-who-totally-survived-this-situation vibe that they’ve got going.
Leslie’s looking for a mentee, not a naive teenaged girlfriend. That’d be wack.
OTP? Ew. Besties? Yay!
OH, THEY’RE PLATONIC
“Did my sarcasm not come through?”[/clueless guy]
/is also just actually not very clear about “I AM SUPER EXCITED FOR THIS” in general
I actually knew a 30-year-old guy who worked at a college who ended up dating a 19-year-old dude from another college. They are married now.
Old dude hit me up on Facebook a few years later looking for a threesome. I had to turn him down because he bleached his hair. I do have standards.
What can we call this new sitcom? Any ideas for a theme song?
Leslie and Becky singing Erasure’s “A Little Respect” a capella?
‘Two Lefts and a Right.’ Assuming Becky’s shifting left after all of this insanity.
Perfect.
Joe’s just hanging out
Hopefully he notices and zips up before someone points it out.
Plot contrivance is working both ways.
It’s been talked about for, what, years now? Though the speed of it occurring is a bit much. Not that I’m complaining, mind you. It’s just all crammed into one comic, to which the Master understands.
I know, right?
Becky speaks for all of us.
Remember the gaybies!
neva 4get
That sounds too much like “rabies”.
I CALL NEXT!
Oh dear.
I confront you with someone whose humanity has been denied due to your policies.
This is Robin though. She’ll just go “foshizzle” then completely deflect by tweeting something ridiculous and go back to eating cheetos.
Yeah, Robin’s the kind of person you can’t reason with or guilt into submission, because she KNOWS she’s a jerk but just doesn’t care.
Robin almost cracked before, but her cognitive dissonance was able to re-assemble itself. This could work.
COULD, yes.
But hope has a bad track record when put up against Robin.
I don’t think Robin’s a jerk, she’s just in hard denial and guilty of “going with the flow”. She’s admitted that she doesn’t want to make waves and only supported the bill to please her voters. I mean, that’s all bullshit but I don’t think she fully comprehends the damage she could cause.
She’s been told no less than three times by three different people. At this point, it’s wilful ignorance.
Uh, Robin is worse than a jerk, Robin is a fucking awful human being, and one not-small part of that is having a job that gives her power to vote with her very PURPOSEFUL non-comprehending attitude on critical legislation.
I don’t think she doesn’t care. She’s just gotten really good at ignoring it. You know, politics!
If she’s that good at ignoring it, she doesn’t care.
Why hasn’t Leslie called the cops?
Cops are likely to not be on her side.
And even if they would be on her side, Leslie’s homeless days might have given her to assume that they’re not.
I wonder if her landlord would be keen on someone living there and not signed on the lease… I wonder what the rental contract says about that.
Depending on her landlord’s disposition to her sexual orientation, perhaps the landlord could have Robin removed by the authorities as the owner of the property.
Not knowing much about her landlord, I can’t really say with any confidence how that would work out.
Her landlord let Robin in without Leslie’s permission. That does not bode well.
Hopefully we get the full story on that from the landlord at some point, rather than via Robin’s nonfunctional brain.
Calling the cops on a sitting member of Congress? Surely you jest.
Leslie: I have a congressperson who refuses to leave the house.
Cop: Don’t we all.
Okay, that got a rueful chuckle out of me.
You win.
…… well played.
nice.
JESUS
She still deep down believes that she can get through to her. If she calls the cops the most they will probably do is remove her with a slap on the wrist. She will still be voting for bad laws tho. If Leslie can just get through to her she might just be able to get her to stop voting for bad laws.
Yup. Robin’s very good at not acknowledging anything she doesn’t want to. Like boundaries. Or her own sexuality. Or…
At first I misread that as tweeting cheetos and eating something ridiculous.
It still fit.
I thought I used up all my joy yesterday
BUT NOW I HAVE MORE
That is the complete opposite of a problem.
It’s a renewable resource!
And it’s un-taxable!
Pretty sure if I was in that class my expression would be very similar to…well anyones in panel 2
I think I would be much smilier. It’s always great to see someone who needs help getting it.
I’m actually tearing up and can’t stop smiling
this is like in boy meets world when mr. turner says ‘hey, i remember when i was all about leather jackets and cool hair like you, shawn…and i still am!’
…and they bonded
aaaaaa!!
YOU NERDS.
One day, Becky, you will become a pupae gay.
Wouldn’t that be pupa, singular?
sometimes one chrysallis isn’t enough
Because you kept coming up with reasons to not come to this class with Joyce, Becky.
I’m kind of hoping this ends with Joyce punching Robin so hard she lands under a pile of cops.
I’m now picture Robin flying sideways into the legs of a group of cops who all topple over like tenpins.
I’M SO HAPPY ♥ Omfg, I just want to print this comic out on nice glossy photo paper and frame it. This is pure joy.
First I get home and find an unexpected super rare d10 in a grab bag I bought on a lark, and now lesbian bonding time. Tonight is the best possible night <3333
Is cutting your hair after you come out a thing?
Well for me it took almost 2 years, but… maybe?
I imagine it’s an identity thing. Like you’ve figured something new out about yourself and you’re trying to embrace it in all the typical ways, kind of diving in and doing ALL THE LESBIAN THINGS.
I was similar as a baby witch. I figured out I was into witchcraft and that I’d been doing little things my whole life and then suddenly I had a word and a culture for it and I was like I HAVE TO BUY ALL THE CRYSTALS AND WEAR LOTS OF BLACK AND etc.
I guess it’s like that for most people who find where they “belong?” Or something like that.
Disclaimer: I still buy way too many crystals. Stay away from witchcraft, kids. It’s expensive.
Same, friend, same. Too many pretty shinies.
Of quartz you buy too many cry- *vaudeville hook*
I got into crystals and their meanings to different folks and my parents bought me a box – Oof. Crystals are ‘spensive.
“Gay Culture” influences aside, I always assumed there was an element of casting aside social expectations of femininity involved in it. Guys, on the other hand, tend toward piercing (perhaps similarly as a way of defiantly embracing a traditionally feminine element).
By my personal experiences, though, the respective indulgences in hair styling or body piercing did tend to be pretty consistent among binary non-heterosexuals whom I’ve met over the years.
Individuals of non-binary genders whom I’ve met have generally avoided such expressive displays. On the other side of things, transgenders (specifically ones whom were leaning toward reassignment, or were early post-op) who I’ve known have tended to be the most wrapped up in embracing expected gender roles of the opposing sex. (In fact, that desperate desire to fit into the expectations of the other role was often the driving force behind their [plans for] surgery, rather than any element of careful personal consideration of whether the surgery was actually the best match for their personal gender identity.)
In short, there’s a lot of pressures to conform to the binary framework, even when you’re non-cis, and also a lot of self-motivation to make open gestures of rejecting your mismatched birth gender, as a way of emphasizing your transition to a more favorable gender role.
As with anything, the manner of approach is going to differ person to person- but a lot of individuals (especially ones that felt challenged by the thought of ‘coming out’) take encouragement from embracing such obvious, well-recognized acts of proclaiming their new gender label.
IDK, a lot of nonbinary folks go for the undercut/dying your hair route. Not all, but enough that it’s a thing. (Like the zebra’s stripes, the flashy colors confuse the Cis and give us time to get away)
As for binary Trans folks, I’d add that it’s less about wanting to conform to standards and more about using little things like hair and clothes to reassure yourself when people are constantly misgendering you. Dressing a certain way can be a source of comfort, but I’ll still argue that clothes have no gender from sunup to sundown. A lot of Trans folks are very big on breaking with gender roles, but, as you said, we’re also pressured to look a certain way by the Cis community.
I dunno, I started wearing it longer after I did that. Maybe it’s different for dudes?
Do females discard traditionally female elements, and males embrace those elements, because they want to emphasize their moving away from the expectations of their old gender? Or do they do it because, for the first time, they’re free to change their appearance based off their personal preferences, without concern of gender expectations?
Either way, yes, it seems to be a fairly consistent theme of trying to discard the expectations of your old gender in favor of those of the new [versus both sexes of homosexuality embracing similar displays to one another].
I’d say the second one, for sure.
I… attempted that.
it’s kind of a part of lesbian culture, at least in america
I don’t know if it’s specific to coming out but hair is one of the easiest parts of the body to control and customize so it wouldn’t be surprising to see change when someone realizes and excepts of new part of their identity.
Oh totally! Also a whole new wardrobe (lots of flannel and some sensible boots). It’s not, obviously, a thing for everybody. But a lot of queer kids just want to be obnoxiously and visibly queer once they’ve come to terms with themselves. I started wearing rainbow-colored shit everywhere for a while lmao, clothes, accesories and whatnot. Usually once you’ve been out for a while you develop a style that is all yours. But a starting-off point that’s maybe more steeped in a shared cultural expression is never a bad thing. It helps. It makes you feel like you’re part of something.
(I still have such a big collection of rainbow-themed shit and I’ve been out for like 15 years xD)
Cutting your hair, wearing/not wearing makeup (depending on what you were doing before), bedecking yourself in rainbows and various fashions that your also-gay peers are wearing.
The LOOK, I’M A LESBIAN phase is a real thing
I had a LOOK I’M BI phase but yeah.
There’s also a big element of nuke-the-closet-from-orbit and one-fingered-salute-to-your-old-town-and-everything-it-stands-for there. Or there was for me, anyway.
Less a coming out thing and more of a reclaiming control thing.
I think it’s a bit of a media trope? Not specifically cutting your hair in that way, but altering appearance and behavior as a sort of cathartic release.
Well straight girls also cut their hair when they are breaking up with boys, cutting hair is not really associated with lesbianism, at least not in my country which is not USA. At least in my culture it’s mostly about girls with life changing moment where they want to show that to the rest of the world to know, either bad or good but to everybody to notice and ask them about it why they did it 😉
This is now my favorite strip. That is all.
its going good so far. I’m liking it. Very cute I love it.
But. Leslie. Don’t rag Becky into your schemanigans without telling her what’s what first. Like I get now it’s not the best time but like. At some point inform her. Please.
I guess she technically did just inform her. “One who’d have to confront your basic humanity.” But hopefully she fills her in on more details.
After all that Becky’s been through, I think she’d be down with trying to get Robin to be more gay-friendly.
Or chasing her out of the house with her presence.
If Leslie’s gay radiation can’t drive Robin out, nobody’s can.
If “gay radiation” is a thing, I’d think that Becky is comparable to the “elephant’s foot” corium* mound in the basement of chernobyl. Either Robin will be driven out, or she’ll be forced to acknowledge her cognitive dissonance for good.
* corium is the name for the mixture of uranium, reactor sealing material, and concrete that gets produced when meltdowns happen.
Yeah, I’m not really cool with that. I mean, in a story sense it’s awesome, but it’s not at all an okay thing for Leslie to drag her into. Even informed. I mean, Becky would go help, because she’s Becky and this awesomesauce mentor figure asks her to, but this is Leslie’s problem. It’s not right to pull the incredibly vulnerable homeless gay kid into it.
This is the best thing ever I can’t stop smiling
Could go so many bad places with that…you mean Little Joe is hanging out? *does a cannonball into the gutter*
Oops, meant to reply to AnvilPro.
This is making me so happy. Someone who totally understands Becky and what she’s gone through in a way no one else has before. This is so good for both of them and I am so happy this is happening.
This is like one of those Blessed Image twitter accounts. Blessed Comic.
I can’t say anything other than ‹3 and be paranoid that won’t last long. Also, is Dory a good nickname for Dorothy, or just extremely ironic?
Most of us call her Dotty!
It’s a good thing this one is more mellow than the other one, or we’d all be dead.
This two days have been great for reading DOA 😀 😀
Does Professor Doc have of DoA counterpart? It just occurred to me that I really need to see him interact with Leslie while she’s wearing that outfit.
I think this strip is the closest thing we get to Professor Doc.
That one always bugs me. “Mr President” is a common enough form of address for chiefs of state, at least in fiction.
Well this class period is certainly gonna be a whirlwind of hyperness. Walky will be overjoyed.
DeSanto delenda est
btw, i think that in olden days, ‘baby gay’ was a qtip. stephen fry said that one, and i’ve never checked it
qtip?
Q-Tip, as in cotton swab.
Oh, I see. I couldn’t make sense of it literally, so I thought it was some kind of slang term?
Quip?
This is correct. Q-tips were called baby gays.
http://triviahappy.com/images/articles/03242014boric.jpg
From the Pittsburgh Press Archives, an advertisement for them.
Becky still says “awesomesauce?” Damn, she really was sheltered.
Do…do you not?
I just say ‘saucesome’
Ossm!
Well, she was, but more importantly to the uttering of the word, it’s fun and goofy and kinda cool. Of course she says it.
I use awesomesauce.. :/
“Awesomesauce” is awesomesauce.
Oh god that’s such positive interaction its amazing ;v;
Oh god this will be amazing.
Robin almost cracked when she was in class and Joyce mentioned just mentioned how that bill would’ve affected Becky. If meeting Becky doesn’t get through that skull of hers, nothing will. Especially since the two of them are so alike.
This is going to be the best team up. How am I supposed to go to sleep with this much 100% pure uncut GLEE in my system?
Self applied cloriform? I know pulling up a YouTube video of a longwinded Brit playing a turn-based strategy game while wearing my CPAP mask after showering an hour before hand puts me out like a baby in ten minutes.
…
I have a very specific bedtime recipe.
No one has any problems with Leslie seeing Becky as a prop in a game of “Take That, Robin”? Granted, it’s mitigated somewhat by Becky seeming to be in on the joke and being down with it, but still …
Becky isn’t a prop because Leslie clearly cares about Becky.
This is a two birds, one stone kinda thing.
I’d be surprised if Leslie didn’t end up explaining further to make sure Becky understood what she was potentially getting into. Though considering what Becky already knows, she can probably figure out who exactly Leslie is talking about.
I don’t think her intent is to stick it to Robin (I think she genuinely wants to change her mind and mend her ways) but I agree. Intentionally bringing a young, vulnerable lesbian to meet someone who’s supported anti-LGBT legislation seems like it could really put her in danger.
You say that as if it’s purely a superficial, petty personal grievance instead of a serious thing that directly affects Becky, a young vulnerable queer teenager. Becky has a vested interest in Robin no longer supporting homophobic policies, whether she knows it yet or not.
I think that’s tainted by the fact that Leslie wants to change Robin’s kind so that she can crush on her guilt-free.
This is what I was going to post. It doesn’t matter how big the issue is. It’s still using her as a prop, if she doesn’t first ASK Becky if she’d be interested in doing this.
Sure, “borrowing” someone is just normal language. But it can also be seen as dehumanizing a bit. So I really hope she does actually talk to Becky about this before trying it.
Given that Leslie does seem to be a good person, I think she will. Even Roz, with her problems, actually talked to Leslie about things.
hmm didn’t even realize that that was Leslie’s plan til I read this comment. Not sure now.
leslie might not be intending to take becky home since robin is still camping out on her couch? the couch leslie intended to offer is taken. like, she might just be planning to take becky out and feed her and get to know her and introduce her to people, or something like that.
idk i got more of the vibe of “taking her under wing”
I agree. That look in Panel 5 is definitely an “I can use this against Robin/to help Robin see” look. And it’s not cool. Even if she explains, she’s still throwing a vulnerable gay kid up against a right wing congresscritter in what’s likely to be a highly public way. Any of the personal damage we’ve worried about for Leslie can hit Becky far worse.
That said, story wise, I’m looking forward to the explosion. Robin may be deep in the closet, but nuking closets is Becky’s speciality.
THIS COMIC STRIP IS THE PUREST THING EVER
😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
So, wait, Becky and Robin are actually going to meet?
….
….
PR job!
PR JOB!
P. R. JOOOOOOBBBBB!
Yay, Becky’s going to live with Leslie!
Or maybe not, but Ms. Bean entertained the possibility just like I hoped she would.
NEW BEST FRIENDS FOREVER
(hahaha suck it joyce)
In all seriousness, this might help Becky become less resource-guarding-dog towards Joyce
I do have to ask a REAL question. What is a baby gay? Are there actual babies out there that have realized their sexuality at such a tender age?! “I can’t walk or talk or feed myself but DAMMIT I’m gay!”
Please sumbit your answers in the form of a haiku or interpretive dance in triplicate. Thank you.
Look at side-shaved hair
All rainbows and suspenders
Such proud – so excite
This baby is gay.
She’s seeing a girl tonight.
They grow up so fast.
Smol gay
I have came out young
Few come out younger than me
I am now teenage
(Currently 13)
New to a culture
Not sure you’re doing this right
Seeking some guidance
Little baby gay
can’t walk a straight line at all
zigzags eternal
I like the first part of this strip but I have some serious reservations about the second part: taking the emotionally vulnerable homeless lesbian teenager with a dad in jail for attempted kidnap and possibly murder, who most likely has a minor case of hero worship for you, and bringing her along to a stalker politician with internalized homophobia who considers gay people acceptable losses at best… in an attempt to use this kid to get the aforementioned politician to acknowledge her humanity.
That….is a horrible plan? I mean, even if she gets Becky’s consent, it’s not a great plan, and I hope she talks to her about it and what she plans to do , but even with that, bringing the abused homeless kid to use her as an object lesson doesn’t sit well with me?
THANK YOU. i was concerned about the lack of concern here. she went from “let me help you” to “let me use you as a pawn to ease my guilt” in nothing flat. :/ you are in the wrong universe for wacky hijinks, Leslie!
Enlisting a volunteer to help confront a threat to the LGBT+ community is what’s happening here. And while Robin might be infuriating, and a threat due her political power, she’s not Mary. Just talking to her isn’t going to traumatize Becky anymore than if she’d been in class when Robin visited.
Becky will probably be more gung ho about the idea than Leslie.
Okay, that would work out well enough if Robin had shown herself as more trustworthy than she has. Leslie has tried to talk to Robin and ‘humanize’ gay people by telling Robin her story. Robin’s response to that was lackluster on all levels and then culminated in her stalking her, breaking into her home, sneaking into her bed, and then refusing to leave. This isn’t the person to be entrusting the privacy and feelings of a homeless abuse victim to.
And also, I know Becky is resilient and probably will even be gung ho about this if she is given an explanation, but Leslie doesn’t know that. anything about Becky aside from that she’s gay and homeless because of that and seems pumped about coming out. She has no idea what may traumatize or trigger her. She immediately set upon this great idea to use Becky to try to make gay people seem more like people to the woman who broke into her house. I just don’t see that as a great move on Leslie’s part.
Will it work? Maybe. Probably? It’s still not something I’d endorse, specifically since as a queer person myself, I dislike the notion of having to prove my humanity as a tactic.
Fair enough.
I am also surprised that so many people are so gung ho about this. The first panels are awesome. But that one part is problematic, if things are not cleared up quickly.
It’s not something she should do without consulting Becky and warning her of all the issues.
Plus, Leslie’s responsibility to her students has been one thing that’s outweighed her libido. If Robin stamps too hard on sore spots or goes toward potentially traumatizing, I think she’ll get to go face first out the door again.
Yeah, I get what you mean, but I’m forgiving of it for one simple reason:
The format. DoA is a daily comic strip, much in the vein of newspaper comics. That means that:
1: Each strip has to be a set size (well, 95+% of the time)
2: One strip per day, hard rule.
3: Most strips are going to end on a joke.
There’s exceptions in there, but that last one is the killer. Sometimes, in an effort to tell a segment of a story a day and keep the humor up whenever possible, you need to make a little gag that doesn’t quite fit what the characters would normally do.
So, if something’s weird for a character in the final panel? I tend to be forgiving of it, because… yeah, usually it’s in service to a joke, not meant to be taken that seriously. I’m 100% certain that Leslie’s not going to use Becky without giving her all the gory details.
What I find difficult to take is how often people seem to tend to forget “3”.
And the inevitable ‘character’ assassinations that follow.
I immediately assumed that Leslie would second-guess herself in a subsequent strip. She often has a problematic idea, but then realizes it partway through, and doesn’t go through with it after all.
I predict that Leslie will have a moment of “oh wait this is potentially terrible, here are the dangers” and Becky will be able to assure her that she is totally into this adventure.
I’m with you on that.
We get an entire day to ruminate on interrupted, ~45 second sections, of a conversation. In real life people wait for a natural pause for that “someone has completed their thought” feeling.
and while we’re at it, let’s expose her to the media circus/cordon (still) surrounding Leslie’s home.
Literally my immediate response to that panel was “LESLIE NO”
Agreed on all fronts!
This is Willis. What could possibly go wrong?
Heh, panel 2 is great. “Uh okay, are we gonna, like, follow that lesson plan she mentioned? What’s even going on?”
“And weren’t we going to get to confront her for betraying gay culture and forgetting about how important solidarity is?”
Not sure what season it is in DOA, but Ruthie ought to get some joy from how the Leafs are doing in the Stanley Cup playoffs.
Those other two magnets are definitely Joe and Jacob. I’m calling it
Oh wait the Kickstarter page says so XD
I’ll think of an appropriate gush about this in the morning.
SSB great as this strip is… Leslie isn’t very good at being impart I’ll, huh?
FINALLY someone who appreciate Becky as she deserves.
I love the second panel. This is educational
I know, right, Becky. It’s not like the comment section were screaming the same thing while you got a haircut or anything…
Yay, new besties! ^_^
But please please please don’t derail the DinaBeckySaurus Express.
Where they’re going, they don’t need rails
Ooh, they’d be adorable in BttF cosplay.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/5e/2b/24/5e2b249d681a2cc5ebec573403f2b457.jpg
REEEEALLY trying to figure out how this professor hasn’t been fired for crossing all SORTS of HR-related no-no lines.
Have you seen their math department? HR checked out a long ass time again.
What lines would those be?
Not really sure what you’re referring to.
Becky isn’t a student so there shouldn’t be a problem there. Her interactions with Robin took place outside of work, and again there was no student-teacher relationship.
I also have no idea what you’re talking about, even if Becky were a student. I’ve known plenty of teachers who helped out students like she’s describing.
Now, I’m not gung ho about the Robin plan–mostly because she’s not asked Becky if she’s willing, and it’s kinda crappy to expose her to someone like Robin–but there’s nothing that violates any HR stuff that I can think of.
Also, your reference to “this professor” seems strange. She’s a named character who has played an important role in so much of the comic.
(Hey, guys, does anyone remember if this poster has posted before?)
I think there is a bit more flexibility for college student- teacher interactions compared to high school student – teacher interactions. I mean romantic relationships etc are no-nos of course, but otherwise it’s the equivalents of two adults talking.
There’s nothing sexual in how Leslie and Becky are interacting.
…Yes which is what I was trying to say. There’s leeway when there isn’t romantic interactions, which is clearly the case here.
You were clear, I was further supporting your statement. : )
Dina and Becky’s children are going to refer to Leslie as “Aunt Leslie”, aren’t they?
Either that or Grandma. I think Bonnie’d be cool to share that title.
*That night as Leslie lays sleeping*
(Bonnie’s ghost materializes)
Bonny: You are now my daughter’s surrogate mother woman!!!
Leslie: Holy shit what’s going?!?
Robin: Ghost!
Leslie: Get out Robin!!!
Shaggy and Scoobs do a spit take, run out of the room and fall into the elaborate ghost trap they just built.
Ooh you make me live
Whatever this world can give to me
It’s you you’re all I see
Ooh you make me live now honey
Ooh you make me live
Ooh you’re the best friend that I ever had
I’ve been with you such a long time
You’re my sunshine and I want you to know
That my feelings are true
I really love you
Oh you’re my best friend
Ooh you make me live
Ooh I’ve been wandering round
But I still come back to you
In rain or shine
You’ve stood by me girl
I’m happy at home
You’re my best friend
Ooh you make me live
Whenever this world is cruel to me
I got you to help me forgive
Ooh you make me live now honey
Ooh you make me live
You’re the first one
When things turn out bad
You know I’ll never be lonely
You’re my only one
And I love the things
I really love the things that you do
Ooh you’re my best friend
Ooh you make me live
I’m happy at home
You’re my best friend
Oh you’re my best friend
Ooh you make me live
You’re my best friend
I was actually hoping Leslie would do what she just did. Never should’ve doubted her.
There is cautious reservations about exposing Becky to Robin though. Even if she knows what she’s up against, it could go in many terrible ways. Hopefully it won’t, but you know, Becky has enough things to sort through as it is.
But yes for rapport. All the yes.
this is so beautiful. this is SO BEAUTIFUL. Look at this! Becky’s had her straight friends and her Dina and her support group but this is a fellow countryman! from the same lands of broken suport networks and re-invention and revelment in identity this is SO BEAUTIFUL
I do find it weird that everyone is falling over themselves to explain away the problems here. She is, currently, talking about using Becky. Yes, maybe she’ll get Becky’s permission. But she sure seems to have already made plans without doing so.
I got tons of grief for saying that Leslie should try to reason with Robin because of the greater good stuff. But now the greater good is enough to ignore this.
I’m not saying it’s irrecoverable. I think she got excited and will ask her later. It’s just weird to me that everyone is glossing over the problem or rationalizing it away when people bring it up.
Since I was one of those giving you guff, I’ll admit, I was probably harder on you than was called for. The tone irked me more than anything else, if I remember correctly. But there, Leslie was giving up an attempt she had started for her own well being.
Here, she’s in the very first moments of hatching a plan to enlist Becky’s help. I can’t imagine she won’t make sure Becky knows what she’d be getting into.
I totally understand having misgivings about it, but for the moment I’m so pumped about them teaming up that I will insist they could fight the moon if that somehow ended up being necessary.
I’ll have to more closely consider the potential downsides to this plan after I stop squeeing.
I, too, was blinded by the sheer squee of the first two panels.
If it’s any reassurance:
Leslie’s pattern so far, is to begin an idea, but then realize that it’s very problematic and she can’t go through with it.
But, this time, she’ll have Becky egging her on and assuring Leslie that she is delighted to take the risk.
Only fully-informed shenanigans ahoy.
idk i mean like. leslie is gay. if robin’s not willing to acknowledge her humanity, i’m not seeing what good seeing a homeless eighteen-year-old is gonna do, even one as cute and spunky as becky.
…i’m so lost. where did this turn into leslie planning to introduce becky to robin and see what happens. is this a patreon thing. help
I think it’s just furthering the case Leslie was presenting to Robin at the bar in hopes to actually make Robin drop the idiot act for once.
idk i think it’s more in line with leslie’s characterization as someone who really cares about her students and wants to help them succeed in her course and in life for her to prioritize becky’s needs first here over her own or robin’s. and it was kind of really disorienting to see so many people here in the comments going on about “leslie’s plan” when like. as far as we know. she doesn’t have one???
it takes more than five seconds to make a plan, lmao. i mean it’s a really ambiguous moment but….all she’s said is that she wants to hang out with becky, and given her unmitigated glee at meeting becky i kind of tend to think that becky’s company would be enough
Robin as an uninvited houseguest + need to make her confront gays’ basic humanity + a little compassion-inducing help-needing gay right there = AN IDEA
I don’t think Leslie has A WHOLE PLAN right now, just an idea for one. And I don’t think she’ll drag Becky into anything without a JOINT planning session.
I think wacky shenanigans are the only way doing anything about Robin can work, AND WHO BETTER FOR THAT THAN BECKY
idk it’s just. frustrating to see people jumping to the Worst Possible Conclusion, i guess, and the way it’s being framed has leslie as being pretty manipulative. which: ok: sometimes she tries to be manipulative, but the point is that she isn’t very good at it and even robin can see her coming from miles away.
this is an ACCURATE POINT! 😀
As a wise little girl once said: why not both?
As I said just two comments above, cautious reservations. Becky has already been through the wringer, I’d rather she doesn’t have to deal with even more shit. Just as I opposed throwing Leslie under a bus for the so called greater good I feel the same way about Becky.
Then again, I have the hopes this situation is dealt with far better results, although Robin is likely to stick her foot all the way up to her esophagus anyway.
Moreso, I posit that Leslie might plan something away from her house and the media. Maybe on campus itself? Which is currently a safer space for Becky anyway.
Fingers crossed.
Adjusting a word here…
Robin is likely to stick her foot in her mouth, all the way _down_ to her esophagus.
At which point Becky will stick her foot all the way _up_ to Robin’s esophagus. (At least metaphorically.)
Remembering her last meeting with Toedad, I think that Robin’s willful stupidity, strong as it is, will be overwhelmed by Becky’s sheer will.
I like this wording better.
Nice.
Leslie gets a bit carried away here when she remembers the offered couch is currently taken by Robin and then realizes that Becky’s nuke-the-closet-approach in combination with being homeless might get trough to Robin (or just annoy her enough that she leaves). It’s tricky, she shouldn’t get Becky into meeting Robin without proper warning, but there are not at her door yet.
To anyone suggesting there is something improper about Leslie offering a bed to Becky or implying that Leslie has designs on her: Go to hell with your prejudices! There’s non of that in this. All in YOUR minds.
I suspect that Robin and Becky will get into an increasingly-alarming competition about who can be the most blatantly in-your-face in an attempt to annoy the other, not realising that they are both immune to the other’s tactics.
Thank you for acknowledging this.
I’m not sure how I feel about this plan. I think (assuming it’s explained, because I don’t believe Leslie would just throw Becky to the wolves) it could go really really well or really really badly.
That said, I don’t believe Leslie would let Becky take the brunt of any sore spot stamping or dismissive shit from Robin. I think she’d intervene on that. I hope so anyways.
This strip is super adorable
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH THIS IS ALL I EVER WANTED <3
i mean a gay mentor for myself would be nice too
Never noticed, but Becky looks like a ginger Leslie.
I don’t really see that, I think Leslie’s face is round and Becky’s is somewhat long, and their nose is entirely different
They both have short hair and like the ladies. Exactly identical!
I love little Becky. She’s so open minded and a free spirit. She definitely deserved more than what she grew up with.
Something tells me that “When Robin Met Becky” is going to be one of the more bizarre and surreal moments in Leslie’s life.
Oh my god, this is beautiful. I needed this after all the unhappiness of the last few weeks.
This is SO FRICKIN’ CUTE
Momma Gay and Baby Gay 😀
Becky! At least invite you girlfriend, too.
…That is a VERY good idea, now that you mention it.
Good plan, Leslie. This should put some perspective back in her unwanted housemate. She can hardly protest giving up the space to Becky.
Hehe. I love how the entire class is just staring at the two of them all befuddled like.
i hope one day to be in leslies position when i meet a baby gay
Leslie NO. Don’t expose an emotionally vulnerable 18 year old to /Robin/. You’re potentially exposing her to emotional abuse just so she can be an ’empathy lesson’ for Robin. Do you think you’d have appreciated this being done to you when you were homeless? Being used like that?
Besides it’s like 50/50 it would even /work/ even if we play the idea on the greater good and that’s being more generous than Robin deserves most likely.
Talk about your own past and your experiences instead. If that doesn’t work, neither will this.
FWIW, I’m expecting Robin to say a lot of stupidly insensitive things (thinking that they are friendly and supportive) that sort of roll off of Becky’s back because of her background that makes her think all adults are basically insensitive twits!
Quite probably true, but still not a good thing for Leslie to do.
I cannot see Robin as being intentionally emotionally abusive. And all things considered, Toedad is the king of abuse. Becky has been exposed to worse.
If anything Robin is the less prepared one in this situation. She is all presentation, but presentation requires meticulous management of who your audience is. Robin’s out of her element.
Especially Robin’s kind of preparation, which mostly relied on her staff to put her in front of a friendly audience.
ABUSE DOESN’T HAVE TO BE INTENTIONAL. IT DOESN’T HAVE TO BE INTENTIONAL. IT’S STILL ABUSE.
Except that Robin doesn’t do any meticulous management of her audience. She walks into class and asks “Which “real me” do you want? I’ve got lots.”
Robin just sort of sweeps things along by sheer force of personality, near as I can figure.
Abuse doesn’t have to be intentional as stated above. Also just because some dude has say been shot multiple times in a war once doesn’t mean you slam a hammer down on his hand and question why he’s complaining because he’s been through worse before hand.
Unless it’s Clint.
Like, folks were dumping on Roz for treating Leslie like this (except she really didn’t, in a lot of ways), and I sure hear a lotta crickets now.
Chirp, chirp.
To be fair, those comments didn’t really start until everything blew up. We don’t know how this is going to play out yet. If Becky gets hurt by it, we’ll see a lot more condemnation.
And there’s definitely been some.
It’s just buried under the squeeing. 🙂
Oh, definitely. I’m glad that as many or maybe more people have been having a hard pause at Leslie’s inference of that idea instead of thinking it’s a great idea solely because Leslie said it.
I was just expecting a LOT of people to bring up the connection of Roz before the discussion got to a late-stage phase since it seems so incredibly obvious that at least on surface-level this is nearly her same exact plan.
Minus the whole crush/seduction aspect, one hopes.
Well yeah, like, absolutely there are degrees of difference and I think those degrees change the context of the plan’s acceptability in a huge way.
But confronting Robin with a lesbian woman to hopefully connect / get through to her humanity was the plan itself.
I still think that seducing Robin to get her to realize that she’s queer herself was the actual plan – unstated and with different motivations.
True, very true.
“Do you think you’d have appreciated this being done to you when you were homeless?” I get the feeling Leslie had to be ruthless to get where she is, so… maybe, at her lowest points, in order to get a roof over her head and food in her stomach, she had to do things that weren’t good for her or that she didn’t want to do, in order to get where she is.
But yeah, if she goes forward with this scheme, she should get Becky’s informed consent and buy-in, and let Becky drive the ousting of Robin rather than using her.
This is… so nice. This makes me feel so good, as a BIG GIANT GAY, and also someone who wants to support and help specifically homeless LGBT youth in the future. I’m SO glad that Becky has an older person that went through something so similar, because while her friends have been so fantastic and supportive, it’s always really wonderful to see someone who was who you were and made it out okay and is now an adult, living a life, having a good job they care about, making questionable decisions about Congresswomen.
Having someone who understands completely what it’s like to go through something because they’ve been through something matters a lot. There’s a lot you don’t have to explain, because they already know. And it’s a reminder that you’re not alone.
oh my god
between ‘Don’t move. Stay right there’ and ‘Joyce, can I borrow her?’ it’s like… in theory, these should sound bad BUT INSTEAD EVERYTHING IS ADORABLE
This page is several kinds of awesome
It truly is!
I AM SQUEEING!
What was that about being someone’s collateral, Becky? Seriously, this is just gross; it’s one thing to have your blond-ass scheme to redeem that shitbird blow up in your own face, but you have to drag in the fucking homeless lesbian girl?
Becky is about to learn an important LGBT youth community fact – Don’t. Trust. The. Elders. And. Established. Ones.
I really don’t like Leslie now, and if this turns into bullshit cheap redemption for Robin, I am going to fucking riot.
I thank my stars every day that my drag momma was someone decent, rather than what we’re seeing here.
As the comic’s advertisement goes, this is all about making dumb decisions and learning from them.
I expect Robin to have some redemption, but having to face consequences in the process. I mean considering parallels with her other counterpart, this will probably work in her favor.
Frankly, she’s rather a bit beyond that now.
Wait, what? I thought she said her couch was too full of creepy crappy politician to house Becky at the moment.
She’s about to use Becky to try and oust the creepy crappy politician. I think.
Leslie, I suspect, has had to be ruthless to get where she is. Most of the time in strip that ruthlessness is contained by her idealism and genuine desire to help the world. But at times, like the selfie or right now, that ruthlessness seeps out. It remains to be seen whether this’ll be a net positive or negative for Becky, but I think Jeep-Eep’s point is valid – younger people should be wary of established elders in any community, especially one where the elders and established elites had to be ruthless, practical survivors – ie, users – to survive at all.
I mean, if she’s taking Becky to her house to go “You. Out. I have another house guest who needs that sofa.” I think that’d be okay, but if she’s just using Becky as a political prop then she’s definitely not back to form. Bah
In Indiana, Becky’s existence is deeply embattled politically. Humanizing the idea of homeless gay teens isn’t politically monstrous, especially not to a politician who openly demonizes them because it soothes her constituency.
Robin’s the villain here, and merely exposing her to the harm she caused isn’t political theater. Even if Leslie were to spring Becky on Robin during a press conference, Leslie’s not in the wrong because it’s Robin’s attitudes that politicize Becky.
(I’m from Indiana)
Becky needs to know she’s being used to “humanize” herself, and agree to it, instead of just thinking she’s hanging out with a cool teacher. Otherwise, Leslie is so vastly in the wrong here. Especially if she intends to spring Becky during a press conference, exposing a vulnerable woman who’s already been the victim of extreme violence to more notoriety, more pathways to abuse, and invasions of privacy.
I really doubt Leslie’ll plan to use a press conference. More a personal discussion with Robin, introducing her to the young sympathetic victim of her policies.
Unfortunately, where Robin’s concerned, things spiral out of control.
Leslie doesn’t realize she’s in a narrative where all her best intentions are meaningless in the face of The Drama. Introducing a closeted lesbian legislator to the disenfranchised and homeless teen her policies target has next to no downsides unless you assume that Robin will do something irrational, at which point everything that happens next is Robin’s fault.
Not being aware of an in-story narrative doesn’t mean there aren’t in-story repercussions that are applicable to real life too. There are a thousand ways this can blow up and hurt Becky. Robin could say something dreadful that puts Becky down a bad path or mindset. The press could latch on to a “predatory lesbians indoctrinate/seduce teenage christian” headline. Someone, either from La Porte or another fanatic somewhere else, can use the media coverage to track Becky down and copycat Toe Dad. Because of the bad publicity, the school could be looking for a reason to fire Leslie, and use the cohabitation as an excuse, even if Becky isn’t part of their school. There are a thousand bad things that can happen, and they will all be consequences of Leslie’s actions here.
When it affects someone else’s life, they damn well sure need to be in on it.
Yeah, shit like this, if it is to be done needs to be initiated by the person who’s going to be at the center of it and be their choice done with full consent and only supported by the adults where needed to fulfill that.
It’s the reason I shut down one of my fellow teacher’s idea to out the cover-up of the sexual assault on campus to the media as I knew that would put the kid who’d been assaulted under way more of a microscope that they hadn’t consented to or initiated.
Attagirl, Leslie. Back on form.
What, on the way to yet another blond moment and this time with a vulnerable student as collateral because she can’t drop the idea of reforming her terrible crush?
That certainly seems to be her form.
Yesssssssss!
[Reposted from Patreon but extremely relevant to this forum as well.]
And here is the moment Leslie has an idea that both is and isn’t another attempt at Roz’s scheme with Leslie, and I don’t know how to feel or even if I’m making an apt comparison.
But! The overall content of the strip makes me far happier than sad and honestly, my visceral reaction to Leslie’s idea is positive because with or without Robin present Leslie’s going to use Becky’s time to probably ply her with material/emotional things she needs right now!
And, as an aside to the above, I am very glad that a lot of the same people I have been arguing with over Roz’s scheme to set up Leslie and Robin also are the same ones who do not think Leslie’s idea here is a good one. I’m not sure it is a good one either. Becky is far more sheltered than Leslie is and Becky’s wounds are very fresh. I think it’s certainly got a chance of achieving what Leslie and Roz both have wanted for Robin, but what they’d risk to Becky is arguably worse than what Leslie was personally risking to herself as an educated adult.
I’m on the exact opposite camp. I was totally cool with Roz’s “scheme.” Leslie is a grown-up who went in with full knowledge, consent, and, dare I say, eagerness . This? Not okay.
That’s kind of how I am leaning toward the matter.
Yeah, Leslie’s thought here is dangerous as fuck and not one I’d ever feel comfortable doing. Kids who’ve been through hell have been through hell and don’t need to deal with suffering through the emotional drain and pain of being someone’s object lesson.
My natural instincts are to protect kids in that fragile state from the bigots and shield them away to rebuild their strength rather than hope that they can get through to them.
But I understand why Leslie has the thought. She wants desperately to get through to Robin and Robin keeps dangling enough lure to make Leslie believe it’s possible. And she feels absolutely trapped by the stalker who has taken over her life and resisted literally every attempt she has taken to stop her.
And as we see with Roz, people don’t necessarily make the cleanest or best decisions when they feel trapped.
This so much. I think you’re totally right.
Squeeee!
Leslie said the thing about “one who’d have to confront your basic humanity”…
… but I don’t think Becky hears the nuanced or the subtle very well, especially right now.
You say “plot contrivance,” I say I’ve been anxiously waiting for Leslie to step in and offer to help Becky since this arc STARTED.
Huh. All that stuff I said about how Leslie can’t take in Becky? Never mind! 😛
She is not in great shape, emotionally, and maybe not thinking things through. She made the invitation, impulsively, in front of the whole class, before she remembered her annoying houseguest. (Which means the invitation wasn’t an evil plot to do something political at Robin) It is still likely that others will place the worst possible interpretation on her actions.
But. She saw someone in need, and she has recent experience of that need, and knows that person needs a safe place. And damn the torpedoes, she will provide the place if it comes to that. And Robin will just have to deal (and hopefully leave)
Just try to be mad at her, I can’t.
Leslie is the best!
The initial invitation itself wasn’t. It was spontaneous, heartfelt and Leslie at her best.
Then she remembers the houseguest and comments on how “one who’d have to confront your basic humanity.” And then she thinks for a panel and asks if she can borrow Becky. The borrowing is distinct from the initial invitation and definitely tied to confronting Robin with Becky’s basic humanity.
This is not Leslie at her best.
Could be. Have to see if she just spends an afternoon with her, or if she goes home with her and confronts Robin in some way. The former would be lovely, the latter, not so much.
She may back off on it, but she’s definitely thinking about Robin & Robin’s reaction when she said that.
Maybe Roz’ll call her out. That would be interesting.
Look at that little tick in Leslie’s eye at the final panel. That’s an expression leaning far more toward “I’m a little desperate, help me out here!” than just hanging out, though either way I think / hope Leslie would work in an opportunity to go buy Becky some clothes and ply her with all the love and acceptance an afternoon can fit.
Joy will not be held hostage.
literally been waiting for this interaction since becky first came out years ago. so satisfying.
Comic Reactions:
Every panel of this is pure joy.
Panel 1: Like, look at their faces. Becky and Leslie are so happy here and knowing the recent pain both have been through, that’s so important. So far, Becky’s mostly had a lot of misery piled on her for being gay, but here, that aspect of her is being celebrated, reminisced upon with pride.
And for Leslie, one of the most heart-breaking things about the Robin arc is not just the stalking but the constant dismissal of the humanity and very real pain Leslie has gone through before. But here, she can connect to someone who is basically who she was (homeless, lesbian, coming from a fucked-up religious background).
And “baby gay”! Oh, yes, that’s one of the things I love most about teaching the age range that I do is that I get to see the kids when they are first finding and discovering who they are and nurture that so they are as safe as I can make them to explore who they are and find genuine joy in it.
Panel 2: Cause I relate so much to Leslie here, celebrating the milestones with a young freshly out queer as they find the hair style that expresses themselves, the names and pronouns, finding pride in stating who they are and becoming less and less nervous about it. It’s a beautiful thing to be a part of and it’s awesome that Becky is getting this chance to celebrate when society is not kind to these sorts of experiences (I still remember the amount of shit Becky got early on for “wasting money” on a haircut and on “being too aggressively out” about her newfound and newly reclaimed sexuality).
But I think what I love the most is just this shot of the folks in the class just watching dumbfounded at this open celebration. Like, I’d never interrupt class like this for that, but I’m glad Leslie is because this is the real meat of so many lessons she’s covered. All that theory is about human beings and human moments and the joys of figuring out yourself amidst all the cultural garbage thrown at you.
Like, it’s especially moving that all the people staring on in this panel are all the straight people in the class, because this is modeling what it’s like for those on the queer side in life experiences that are frequently erased from any sort of depiction. For some of these folks, this is the first and only time they’ll see this sort of cross-generational celebration of coming out.
And this earnest unscripted moment will likely stick more and harder than all the facts and figures about queer homelessness ever will.
Plus, for the queer kids not pictured, this natural moment wins back all the credibility Robin stole from her. Some of them may still feel upset at her for supposedly dating Robin, but here they also see Leslie at her best, connecting and supporting a queer youth in absolute joy and bliss. And thus able to remember that this is what Leslie’s true character is.
Panel 3: *blub* I’m not crying, you’re crying! *sniff*
But seriously, this is so sweet and pure. Leslie’s caring eyebrows, Becky’s ecstatic smile and the check-in and offer. I don’t remember who but someone yesterday was noting that taking Becky in would be a major risk factor for Leslie in keeping her position. A position that is already somewhat in jeopardy thanks to Robin’s bullshit shenanigans.
Like yeah, it’s “legal”, but queer teachers are given way less slack when it comes to interactions with young folks and it’s a guarantee that things would be “interpreted a certain way” if Leslie took in someone of roughly the same age as her students into her home, even if the context more than justifies that.
And it warms my heart, because so often in these sorts of things, all I can offer is an assurance to respond if they email my work email and resources for nearby queer homeless centers and that sucks, because so many of them just need a few weeks in a space that’s genuinely safe for recovery rather than scrambling for too few beds or staying with shitty abusive parents.
So to see Leslie take that risk and offer more because she’s got the privilege and the space to do so? It’s important and just heart-melting.
I really do love panel too. Both for the reasons you are mentioning here–it’s important for them and for everyone really to be seeing the real impact of the stuff they talk about intellectually–and it doesn’t hurt that those dumbfounded expressions are also not dumbfounded in a way that seems judgmental or dismissive or upset at “wasting their time.” Just bemused.
(I actually am so ‘awww’ at little shot of Roz in the upper-right corner and Walky with his hands all folded neatly on the desk; I should remember to go request Panel 3 without text and maybe some others on DoA tumblr if I’m not too lazy later.)
*Panel 2 I meant but hey Panel 3 also a good idea
Panel 4: Oof, this is so heart-breaking. This offer was made and is likely something she’s been waiting to offer since Joyce first hinted at what’s going on. A chance to save a young queer from having to go through the same hells she did.
But Leslie’s offer is blunted by Robin’s intrusion and stalking and her refusal to leave. That complete conquering of her space is not only devastating to Leslie on every single level, but it also interferes here with what fuels her, the chance to help out the baby gays and help them have an easier time than she did.
And that robbing of a carefully crafted safe space by someone who cannot and will not ever appreciate what she has stolen is just heart-breaking. Especially as Leslie is clearly upset to a degree at the thought of putting Becky through a potentially traumatic experience with a bigot or having a bigot’s insistive entitlement fuck over someone genuinely in need*.
*There is so much I can write about this metaphor here, but it really gets to the heart of a lot of political crap. And that’s the way entitlement of dominant groups not only creates toxic abusive situations for marginalized group members, but also blocks off and narrows their resources from that.
Like, we see that in patriarchal sexphobia making it difficult to acquire most effective kinds of birth control or adequate sex education and then trying to defund abortion access and prenatal care. We see it in cultural homophobia leading to kids being thrown out of their homes, but then blocked from most youth homeless centers owing to their religions. We see it in the angry backlash to folks just trying to support the next generation of those with their identities by folks who angrily want to pretend that those identities don’t exist or are some new fad invention and inventing new laws or harassments to punish those kids and discourage them from “being recruited”.
And we see it in the way we have to beg and fight to simply protect kids already dealing with so much from the additional harms of institutional bigotry and bullying.
Panel 5: So, speaking of political metaphors, let’s talk about the trap that many liberals find themselves falling into and which is being more and more exploited by assholes. And that’s the capacity for empathy and the belief that everyone can be reached if you’re willing to put in the time.
Like, on its own, it’s a good thing. It’s a good thing that our natural inclination when we meet someone with prejudices is to try and understand where they are coming from and seek to gently give them the experiences they need to see where their assumptions are wrong.
But like with abuse, that natural good action can get twisted and bent by those acting in bad faith and who see that sort of effort as a weakness to be exploited.
And Leslie is in that trap here. She’s seen all the horror and awful that Robin is, but she still retains that hope that if Robin just sees a little more blood shed, is confronted a little more with the base humanity of folks like her, that she’ll turn around and there’ll be one less bigot in congress voting to harm those like her.
And she might be right, but in so many cases, that effort is just a long and dehumanizing slog that makes you second-guess your own humanity and worthiness of life. Robin may, in the end, not turn out to be one of those people, but I think of all I bled for my family to try and change their bigotries, and the people close to me I let get hurt by them because I wanted them to see what my love looked like as it actually was.
And for Leslie to be tempted here and put at risk someone who is very much at risk and very potentially likely to be in a fragile state when it comes to homophobic dismissal? That’s the dark side of that empathy and that desire to help someone rotting in hatred see the humanity in those they hurt.
And the dark end of that path can be seeing the suffering of those marginalized as a necessary cost to finally get through to the bigots holding everyone down and thinking that saving those folks is more important than the emotional well-being of those they hurt. I don’t think Leslie is going to get even close to the end of that path, but it’s a road that is easy to fall onto and leads to crap like folks trying to set up empathy tents for nazis to listen to their hatred and try to understand it when the nazis are just looking for a chance to bust some skulls, ideally of a woman or a gay person.
Panel 6: Oh, Leslie, no, this is not your best idea, though I see why you might think so, especially as you so want your offer to be real and especially because you feel so trapped and helpless and want something to push back against a Robin who has barreled over every barrier and robbed every ounce of fight you have.*
*I really like the parallel story with Roz about the less than ideal choices we make when we feel trapped. Especially as both of them experienced it with the same person.
And oh, Becky’s supreme joy at meeting someone in authority who is like her, who celebrates her queerness, who offers her her home. It’s beautiful. Becky has needed this for awhile. Like, Dina and Joyce is wonderful, but support and acceptance from a friend or love and caring from a girlfriend are very different things than having someone with some degree of power validate and celebrate who you are. Not just tolerate, but celebrate.
It makes one feel like a full human being. It’s why folks cry when they finally see representation of themselves on screen. It’s why I wept like a baby when Loretta Lynch read North Carolina the riot act on trans rights:
http://heavy.com/news/2016/05/loretta-lynch-doj-north-carolina-hb2-bathroom-house-bill-2-transgender-lawsuit-full-speech-transcript-video/
That shit matters and we see that here in Becky’s pure unadulterated joy.
So true about your final paragraphs!
When I saw a video of the 2016 Superbowl halftime show*, I cried when I realised they were making the word ‘LOVE’ with rainbow colors in the crowd. I was stunned; it was very unexpected. (The colorfulness of the rest of the show did not clue me in.) I was thinking “They care about me?…” It really made me feel like I and all of us queers matter to the world. And that they love us and accept us and celebrate us for who we are.
*Note that I’m not American and neither do I live in the US.
This whole thing happened in a classroom. The teacher was showing us the video for no real reason. He liked to do that, for some reason. To kill time? I dunno, he was kind of a bad teacher. But I feel like the stupid videos were all worth it for that one video that he showed to us just for shits. (There were other good videos…but this one was the best.)
Also I was in the back of the classroom, which I’m thankful for, because nobody could see me cry, especially since I’m not out. Which I suppose brings another dimension to that situation… I was watching that video while I wasn’t out to anyone in the room or even the whole school!
I don’t think people get how representation feels for people. I remember once, talking to a friend about representation and I pointed him towards some Muslim superheroes. He told me he didn’t even know any existed!
I also remember there being a …I think it was a documentary? I don’t know. They were talking to a man who had been involved in getting schools integrated as a kid. He talked about how excited he was to see Peter Parker went to an integrated school and how, once, a black kid asked Peter how it was going and Peter said fine. The guy got excited and teared up because of a cameo in a comic. This stuff resonates with people a lot. And, even outside feel goods, media can lead society towards more accepting directions. And it’s been shown media can evoke empathy and that people who see themselves well represented in the media tend to have higher self esteem.
That one comic with Ultra Car in Shortpacked! just destroyed me when I first read it. Like, only a very few works have trans girls or asexuals and mostly as side characters, but then there was a major arc about someone who was both, where it was about them being both, and that still being the only ace trans girl character besides Carla I can think of.
I was just dumbfounded and happy crying for a long time and spent a week just periodically rereading it.
I had a similar experience with Sense8 where I had to stop it for a second because of feels, because I had never before seen a trans woman depicted who looked like me and my friends instead of someone’s idea of a drag queen.
People who are used to seeing themselves don’t get how game-changing it is to finally see yourself where you never have before and never expected to before. How touched and important those characters then become. Like Carla is my current desktop background for this reason.
Good representation truly matters and can be the difference between someone thinking they are broken and believing they are a full person.
<33333 I'm so glad you found UC and later Carla and Sense8.
I've been keeping notes on anything with good representation for my friends so I can point them to it or for my resources as a librarian. And yeah, even now when my friends ask I like to point them towards good superheroes for whatever demographic they're asking about (ex. Looking for a latino superheroes? Try Jaime Reyes, Bunker, Miles Morales, or Kyle Rayner).
Also – this might be relevant to your interests. I'm working at a school district library warehouse, and a LOT of the elementary schools are getting copies of a book about Jazz Jennings.
LESLIE NO
WHAT IS YOUR PLAN
Doesn’t have one yet. May stop herself when she realises it is not a plan and may cause more harm than good.
I want to be happy but all I feel is the uneasy feeling that something upsetting is going to happen, like the media targeting Leslie and accusing her of preying on Becky or turning her gay and making her lose her job or something
Yeah, if the media is still watching Leslie’s apartment and she brings back a young lesbian for Robin …
Could be really ugly.
Time for the return of…Toedad!
“Sir your daughter was seen being taken by a lesbian Professor to her home where her lesbian girlfriend is also living, how does this make you feel…”
I honestly think it’d be better if Robin didn’t learn a damn thing because it’s more realistic but I also want a happy ending where Leslie kicks her out and she STAYS out.
At some point, Robin’s going to learn enough to realize that she’s actually queer. That’ll change her mind on those issues at least, probably without changing her basic nature, which might be a longer challenge.
She definitely needs to get thrown out of Leslie’s life for a bit first though.
With all due respect, plenty of conservative politicians are queer and had a history of being the worst people in the world to homosexuals and bisexuals.
+1 +1 +1, x etc.
The world doesn’t have time to wait on the possibility–not even certainty, but possibility–of its Robins changing their mind at some point when the damage they can do is here and now.
Yeah, but Robin, as far as we can tell, is actually unaware or at least in serious denial that she’s queer.
It’s certainly possible she’ll stay anti-gay once she figures it out, but there’s a decent chance that doing so will drastically change her attitude on that topic. She’ll still be the scatterbrained, no boundaries jerk she truly is, at least without a lot more character work, but just that much of a change would be a big deal.
She is not the kind of closeted gay politician who has secret affairs and then rails against the evils of homosexuality. Unless Willis is really twisting her further evil.
Having a secret affair while still rallying against the evils of sexuality is kind of what she’s doing by trying to manage her very right-wing campaign via Twitter from Leslie’s couch.
I mean, it’s not secret at all, and it’s not an actual affair, and Robin is certainly in very deep denial about all of this, but when you are at the stage of denial where planting yourself in the home of a lesbian woman who’s been photographed nearly kissing you while Twitter/traditional media/your own campaign managers are screaming at you over exactly how this looks…and you won’t believe it…
Do you not think Robin’s capable of keeping up the self-rationalization act long enough to vote on some legislation that might matter very much in the time it takes for her to “wake up”? Do you think it’s a certain or even probable enough bet to bank on that she would?
And for all that I’m not sure it matters at all whether her stance could change unless it’s changing 180 degrees overnight, since Robin is already in Congress and running again.
Oh absolutely. Nothing stopping her from voting on horrible things at this point.
What I don’t think Robin will do is keep it up as a pretense, if she can break through that shell of denial. If she even gets to the stage SP! Robin was at for a long time of “straight with an exception”, she’ll change.
She’s not going to be one of those long closeted and damaging politicians. First, I do think she would change. Second, she wouldn’t be able to stay closeted. She say something about Leslie at a rally and follow up with “I’m not supposed to talk about my lesbian in public” or something. She’s not exactly subtle.
And it avoids the frankly disgusting tropes about how ‘a member of a subaltern population scraped and bared her heart and went through hell, and her oppressor was good to her out of appeal to their common humanity~~!!.
Fuck that white liberal shit, it’s just a way of saying ‘Look at the Good Ones ™.
That trope needs to die in a fire.
Though Robin is actually a queer Latina. Which changes the dynamic a little bit.
And frankly, all else aside, you do realize that in this strip, written by “white liberal” David Willis, longstanding protagonist character Robin isn’t go to be cast as an irredeemable villain, right? Like it or not, this is a redemption arc. He did a pretty good job, in different circumstances of making sure Robin went through plenty of hell before her redemption over in SP!. I suspect we’ll see something similar here.
Not in detail, of course, but it also won’t all be on Robin’s terms and it won’t be some appeal to her common humanity.
I’m terrified that you’re right (and hope and think that you’re wrong), because that would a frankly flaming terrible and offensive way to take the character as she’s been now.
And BTW, White Liberalism(tm) is a particular political style, rather than just being white and liberal.
And BTW, express this all you like, but when you deliver it at people while pantomiming vomiting on them and calling them “a creepy fuck,” you cross a line. Rein yourself in.
Robin can get a redemption arc while still avoiding those tropes, though.
How?
Frankly, she’s shittier than Clint; you don’t get to come back for all the lives you’ve ruined. Not at this point.
She might try introducing them, letting them hit it off, then telling Robin who Becky is after she’s left. Though I don’t know if that would be far enough from the trope.
She might change her mind, and find some angrier way to give Robin the boot for now. We still haven’t learned how Robin’s constituents are taking the news about her, and suddenly finding herself on the receiving end of their bigotry seems like it would force her to confront the harm she’s been causing.
That would probably only be enough to start it off, since yeah, she’s got a lot to account for, even if none of her bills have passed. I’m no writer, but it seems like avoiding the tropes is at least doable, though actually redeeming Robin enough for everyone to be happy with it probably isn’t.
My feeling is it’s too soon. If the Becky plan goes through, it won’t work. It’ll blow up badly, though hopefully without any real damage to Becky (please?).
This is going to be a long road, though she probably won’t be parked at Leslie’s for too much of it.
It’s Velociraptor awareness day!
Also, goddamn this page is cute.
Is this that famous lesbomancy in motion?
Also Leslie x Robin as mothers for their adopted daughter Becky can only and will end in disaster. Now we will get DoA Fosters chapter.
I dont usually comment but as a young queer person the same age as Becky this strip literally makes me so happy. Every time i see a Real Gay Adult in real life it is so powerful, even if its just seeing a couple walking past me, and if i were in Becky’a situation someone like Leslie would mean the goddamn world to me.
the sound that i cant stop making right now is at a pitch than neither i nor dogs can hear no seriously i cant stop please send help my windows are cracking
HELP MY MONITOR NOOOOOOO
I’m assuming Becky was an only child, right?
I say ‘was’ because now she has a big sister who loves her already.
Well, she already had Jocelyn, but this addition to her surrogate family is still awesome
Awwww! This is so sweet. =)
I’m oddly reminded of Dragon Age’s spin off novel THE MASKED EMPIRE where Empress Celene had an elven lover Briala who was DETERMINED to make Celene help the elven race. After all, Celene loved Briala, right? In the end, it took most of the book to realize Celene loved Briala as an object or pet but would never see the elves as anything but a resource/nuisance.
Yeah, that sounds like Robin.
Isn’t that cute? Becky’s innocence and Leslie’s desperation are in almost perfect balance.
We don’t actually know what Leslie’s plan here is, and I feel like the assumption that Leslie’s plan is to use Becky to reform Robin, let alone without Becky’s consent, are possibly coming from a position of (internalised?) homophobia, casting the older members of the community as manipulative or predatory.
Having the two meet though doesn’t actually seem like a terrible idea, since Becky comes from the same kind of religious background and this may well be the course of action necessary not Just to get her boundaries established with Robin, but also to establish long-term permanent housing for Becky.
Also, honestly, the best case scenario here is Robin, Leslie, and Becky becoming the cutest family on the /planet/.
Wow, that was kind of uncalled for.
I’d kind of like an apology for that. I didn’t really deserve that over our conflicting readings of a cartoon on the internet.
That sends the message bigots just need more love. Robin was annoying in Shortpacked but not evil. We can have an alternate who is just irredeemable I think.
That’s the whole theme of the comic though. This is a comic about religious fundamentalists and people who don’t know anything about anything growing out of their ignorance and becoming better people.
Like of all the things that could spurn character growth, I’d say “realising you’re gay and finding an accepting community at a time when you’re being dragged by the media and your political advisors for it” is pretty high up the list. Like we can see already that Robin’s already in her own (flawed!) way choosing Leslie over her political career.
If you don’t agree with me that’s fine, but personally I’m going to see more from Robin than “making an ass out of herself in front of a girl she likes at a stressful and potentially traumatic time in her life”and “not grasping the severity of the struggle of homeless LGBT youth” before I put her anywhere near irredeemable.
For the former, I can relate. For the latter, I would, speaking as someone who signed my first permanent lease just this last August, have to dismiss everyone in my life.
I would say you’re severely understating Robin. She BROKE IN to her house and refused to leave. She refuses to take LGBT+ issues seriously after being told by no less than 3 people what’s wrong. She also made an ass of herself before she was outed – namely in class and in the bar.
I’d also argue it’d be a good lesson that you can’t reach everyone and it can be toxic or destructive to try.
That said, I’d not be shocked if Robin did end up with a redemption arc, but I think that’s far from certain.
“I’d also argue it’d be a good lesson that you can’t reach everyone and it can be toxic or destructive to try. ”
That is a very good point
It’s sad but it is true that people can take advantage of you trying to reach out to them and use it to hurt you. I think Leslie’s going to learn that.
If not with Robin, with someone.
Either way, it’s good to know when to cut your losses and bail.
You know who else broke into a house? Joyce. Becky. Jocelyn. Me?
There’s a difference between breaking in to an unoccupied house you used to live in to take back your own belongings because there is no expedient way to get those back and you need them soon and breaking in to someone else’s house to harass them after they’ve told you they don’t want to keep seeing you.
Don’t forget option C, as self-protection against a hostile swarm of journalists that want to drag (and currently are dragging) you through the mud over something highly personal that you’re just now coming to terms with and likely feel traumatised and degraded by.
How does that even slightly excuse breaking into someone else’s house? Robin has her own home she could be hiding out in. Or a damn hotel!
Emotional distress makes it more understandable, not excusable.
SHE TRIED TO BUT YOU WERE EASILY DISTRACTED. ^_^
Seriously though, this makes me all kinds of happy.
This is cute and all but Leslie, seriously, considering your recent track record of interactions and ideas involving Robyn I’m thinking you might want to hold off on any and all plans, at least until you’ve had time to think about it for a bit
Or not because I loves me some drama
This page is the closest thing to perfection I have ever seen in a comic. Nicely done Sir Willis.