To hell with that!! We need Joyce’s *Fists of Justice and Righteous Fury* as well as AmaziGirl and Sal to jump in. Maybe Velociraptor mode Dina. Hell, let’s make it a street fight and let Sarah bring her *Bat of Old Testament Smiting*!!!
I don’t know…no matter how strong a guy is a well placed thumb in the eye followed by a knee to the family jewels can take the fight right out of someone. And there are a loads of other spots you could strike to incapacitate a larger opponent. Being a target for bullies my dad and cousin aught me to “fight smart”.
HE WAS A SOLDIER MAN
SHE SAID “YOU’RE AN OLDER MAN”
“AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE SIR”
NOW THIS ABUSIVE JERK
FORCING RUTH TO GO TO WORK
NEEDS TO GET SUCKER PUNCHED BY HER
It’s obviously an incredibly complicated, touchy situation where an old man lost his daughter, but black-and-white moralizing is way more fun. Hooray for being self-righteous! Boo old men!
The world is complicated! You can’t look at a man threatening and belittling his granddaughter for her “weakness” in having mental problems and not try to understand what he’s going through!
OK, so if I (bigger, stronger, possessed of full adult authority while you are not, with more money and power than you have ever come close to) grab your wrists, loom over you, relentlessly push every button that I installed in your psyche because you are just barely no longer the child I helped shape, and tell you that you are scum because your parent was scum, that you are stupid and lazy because you have been ill, and that you can never escape my plans for you, that’s totes cool?
Even if Ruth’s dad was every bit the worthless failure that Clint claims he was (not at all likely), Clint is still completely out of line. His granddaughter just made a suicide attempt, and his response is to shame her, belittle her, and insult her dead father. He’s so focused on Ruth’s R.A. job that he can’t be spared even a moment to inquire about her welfare or offer support. His entire response to her suicide attempt was “We had a *close call,* didn’t we?”
I think Kris was quoting his Shortpacked! appearance, and the comment is more making a point about his ability to take punishment, rather than justifying any of his current behavior. However, having once been strong and healthy enough to participate in warfare does not automatically mean he is still able to take a punch.
I’m just glad that the show with the least interesting premise turned out to be the really terrible one. I’d’ve been sad if one of the interesting shows was that shitty.
DD at least has good choreography going for it. And the Punisher/Kingpin ep was genuinely great. It had some other stuff going for it to, but the biggest thing it had that IF lacked was a competent production staff. Did you notice that at several points during a few of the fights, they had to blur out the faces of the combatants because they were stuntmen? Like… wow.
theres a video on twitter comparing the dd hallway fight and a fight in if and whereas the dd fight has no cuts, the if fight has 45 cuts in less than 30 seconds
I read the actors sometimes got as few as 15 minutes to practice their fight choreography before they started shooting. If true, it’s no wonder they had to toss if off to the stuntmen so often.
I give this guy rank on Toedad because, to me, at least Toedad is a buffoon who believes that he’s doin’ right by Jebus. Toedad has good intentions, even though they lead to him being a fundamentally awful person. This guy and Blaine are just abusive, narcissistic, horrendous ragebeasts with no redeeming qualities and no reason to live, without whom the world would inherently be better.
There was not one damn thing about the intentions of the Toe That Walks Like A Man that were even remotely good. His intentions were “force the daughter I regard as my property to obey my will.”
“…because if she doesn’t God is going to send her to burn in agony in the pits of hell forever and ever.”
Toedad is awful because he’s a product of a horribly fucked up Evangelical culture. That doesn’t make him good, but it does make him more pitiable than this guy.
Eh, I feel like Clint here has good intentions to the same extent Toedad did – they both have the mindset that they know best and it’s their job as parent/grandparent to keep the naive and foolish youngster from making a terrible life-ruining mistake. Why Clint thinks it’s so important that Ruth keep the RA job I don’t know, maybe he figures forcing her to see it through to the end of the year will help her become stronger and avoid being a useless flake who quits every time the going gets tough (which I assume Clint thinks was true of her father). He’s just terribly mistaken about “tough love” being the cure for every ill.
Ross wins in terms of being an immediate threat. I think Clint takes the title from Blaine for the “100% Toxic Parent” category. He stands a chance at taking Ross’s title as well though.
But that bad road is partially responsible for saving Becky from Ross…
I guess it’s a good thing being a toxic shitstain of a human being isn’t a competition, because if it were, quantifying it would be incredibly complicated.
Given what happened to Bonnie – Ross actually was at least part guilty of SUCCESSFULLY killing one person. So yeah, for now he has the #1 Asshole trophy. Personally I would say Blaine still has the #2 spot, if nothing else because Ruth and Howie only had to spend PART of their childhood with Clint.
It’s why it bugs me that people all this guy by his name instead of making up a nickname. I know at least a handful of Clints, and I don’t want to sully their name by referring to this guy by that name.
I think that he, ToeDad, and Terri-dad (get it?) should not get the luxury of being referred to by name.
I haven’t got a good villain name for Clint. Or Blaine. Butthole Dad and Gashface are both canon. Closest we’ve had for Clint is “Sir”, and fuck if I’m going to call him that. Maybe Billie will come up with something good in the next few days.
I dunno, he’s done a decent job of moderating himself in the presence of witnesses. Though there’s a good chance he won’t respect her enough to care if she sees.
Yes. His behaving himself in front of others? That’s what we have to deal with. And you can see even if he never physically harms her, he has torn her to spreads with nothing but words. But others will think they are such a good person and you must be lying. Abuse is like rape, assume it’s the truth unless proven otherwise. A lot of us try to protect our abusers as well, so just because we say it’s okay ,doesn’t mean it is.
Agreed. I went through both and boy did I go through some insane mental gymnastics to justify and excuse what happened. They never show that part in the movies.
Yeah I don’t take meds cause decades of stress built up for “no reason”, and I got off easy compared to most by comparison but even a slow burn can leave lasting effects and scars and feeling powerless cause no one believes you or don’t feel justified doing something about it makes it worse in the long run and does make you give up asking or looking for help.
“Abuse is like rape, assume it’s the truth unless proven otherwise.”
I hate to be that guy, but I have to add “except in legal proceedings”, because while our current justice system is cruel to victims of both, guilty until proven innocent is a dangerous path to tread.
Considering you know how this can come across, did you need to state the obvious? No one was talking about bloody legal proceedings, and almost never are in these discussions.
But this shit is used as a stick against rape survivors constantly, and I really don’t think anyone’s justice system is at risk of unfair prosecution of (white) rapists.
If they feel it needed stated, then I’m not going to get angry with them. I know people who have been falsely accused in a legal fashion for various things and it’s a terrible experience. I’m saying if somebody you know is sitting face to face with you and says they were raped, assaulted, or abused, believe them. If they cry, believe them. If they fidget and laugh nervously, believe them. If they try to justify it, trivialize it, or are in denial, believe them. If something they describe sounds like nothing a human being would do to another human being or if they seem confused when something shocks you, believe them If they mention it without a discernible change in emotion or like it doesn’t bother them, believe them. If the victim isn’t what you pictured a victim could be (like a muscular man being the victim of a petite woman), believe them. And never ask them “Why didn’t you…” followed by “mistakes” they made at the time. We already know them all.
Yeah… since you’re being “that guy,” I’ll be “that girl”: I didn’t go to the police about the ex-boyfriend who raped me, for Reasons. It couldn’t really have been rape because if I had thought faster on my feet, it wouldn’t have happened; I genuinely cared about the guy and he’d convinced me that he did it because his heart was broken and he just wanted to convince me to come back; I didn’t want to “ruin an innocent man’s life” because I was a stupid drama queen who couldn’t control her overreactions, my story sounded super-sketchy when you said it out loud, etc.
Then, a little more than a year later, two guys in suits met me at the door as I was coming home from a double shift. “Oh, no,” I thought, “I am so tired, and I don’t have the energy to be rude to Mormons.”
It turns out they were the FBI. It turned out it was rape. It turned out I was not the first, nor the last. I was just the first over the age of twelve. He had started courting me because I had a daughter (who had become “too developed” for him to be interested in, thank f*ck, and who lived with her father and stepmother out of state and only met him once). It turned out that when he was using my computer and Internet to “look for jobs” while I was at work (I told you my story sounded super-sketchy!) he was trading and producing child sexual imagery from my home.
I get literal nightmares about the mothers of the young girls he hurt, six to eleven years old at the time, calling me up and asking why I didn’t report him, why I didn’t at least try to stop this man from hurting others stop this man when he hurt me.
I didn’t stop him because he was innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
I didn’t report him because really, when it comes down to it, *I* was the one who made it rape by my stubborn refusal to want him.
That is just one of the depths the rabbit hole of self-accusation (and cultural protection of rapists) can go.
It is my fault those little girls were hurt. I believe M. was a literal monster who couldn’t help himself (he’s in prison for a long, long time), but I knew better than to let a criminal walk free. Sometimes people say, “I’m sorry that happened to you.” Don’t be. Be sorry that I was such a self-absorbed jerk that I let this happen to others.
I hope maybe the “that guys” of this world can also find it in their conscience to quote the statistic about “false rape” reports being about as common as “false car theft” reports…
I am sorry it happened to you. And sorry it happened to them. The cultural protection is real. The push to blame the victim is real. Even for the victim to blame herself. Even if you had reported it, the chances are good it wouldn’t have stopped him.
You know all this of course, but it doesn’t hurt to hear it again. It’s not your fault.
And all the internet hugs or whatever gestures you’re comfortable with.
Thank you. You may never know how important it is to hear that someone is hearing your story.
Maybe it’s not my fault, but it was my responsibility to stop. And as much as I would like to walk away and never think of myself as a person who failed to save children because I was too chicken poop to think of myself as the one who put a nice guy in jail, I think it is my responsibility to tell my story and make others think about dismissing the victim’s narrative…. even when they are the victim.
Justifying and denial are normal reactions Laura. You are not in charge of any of his actions just because you didn’t go forward. I was sexually assaulted by a date once and tried everything to convince myself that I didn’t until later. I didn’t report it and even if I had’ve, it would have been my word against his and he didn’t mean it right? My ex raped me, but it took my friend sitting down and talking to me for me to realize it was rape because screaming “What the fuck!?!” and saying “I don’t want sex” is saying no. He’s with a woman much younger than me now and I worry for her safety. At one point I reached out to her to end up flat out blocked.
You need to remember that what he did to you or anyone else is not your fault. You going to the police and reporting him would not have made it impossible for him to assault others if he wanted to do so especially if he won his case. You are a victim, not the cause.
I might have missed this yesterday, but I just wanted to come back and say that it’s never your fault for someone else hurting others. It’s genuinely a terrible thing that so few rapists are prosecuted at the moment and that the legal system is as hostile to victims as it is today, and that when prosecutions do rarely happen they’re inevitably on the light side when it comes to penalties. I think it’s terrible that you had to be put through that experience and that he’s put you in a situation where you’re questioning whether you’re guilty. That’s never OK.
No, okay, no. You do not get absolved for saying horrible shit just because you preface it with how upset you are for saying it.
If you hate being that guy, don’t BE that guy. We don’t need that guy around right now. Nobody is talking about the responsibility jurors have. We live in a society in which the first public response to literally EVERY other accusation of crime is presuming guilt, but when it comes to rape, we just assume the victim is a lying whore trying to get something by sabotaging her whole life.
Just. Stop. Stop bringing this up. We are all perfectly aware of the nature of our justice system, we do not need to hear about when we’re talking about how victims never get believed.
What I’m bothered by is that this only gets brought up with regrds to abuse and rape which are some of the most under-reported, underprosecuted, and most harrowing legal environments for victims crimes there are.
Every time people talk about that folks are triping over themselves to say innocent until proven guilty, but not for laws where the person on trial for a crime that often does have an overprosecution or a history of supicious police behavior.
We don’t get folks in any discussion of say posession charges, failure to pay citation cases, or sex worker arrests going out of their way to say “innocent until proven guilty” even though in reality, given how much proof a survivor needs to bring a case to court, those cases are exponentially more likely to involve actually innocent people.
Which bothers me because shit like that contributes to this public idea that rape or abuse are these things where it’s easy for a person to be falsely accused or where there’s much actual harm to career and life from a rape accusation (you get more blaclisted for being a victim than a perpetrator) and this leads to the problem where it is nearly impossible to put someone in jail for rape or abuse.
“You get more blac[k]listed for being a victim than a perpetrator.”
Yup. People think that saying you’re a rape victim gets attention. Well, yeah, so does cancer. On the whole, we’d rather be in Philadelphia. It’s not like saying it’s your birthday to see if you can get a free dessert out of a restaurant (which I would NEVER do), and I wish people would stop acting like it is.
I was responding to a specific statement regarding a specific context – don’t get me wrong, I *don’t* think false reports are a big issue now, and I do know that underreporting is a huge issue, as is underprosecution, I just think that the blanket statement “Abuse is like rape, assume it’s the truth unless proven otherwise.” can be dangerous as well. I don’t know what the solution is to prosecuting rape, and it definitely isn’t what we’re doing now, with so many rapists going free, but it also isn’t throw anyone in jail who gets a report against them.
And I agree, more discussion of “innocent until proven guilty” should be given to posession charges, failure to pay citation cases, and sex worker arrests.
Indeed. I was one of the people who wanted to withhold judgement. Obviously, the time for withholding judgement is over.
I do not consider it a mistake to have withheld judgement, because now, scarcely a week later, we have undeniable proof, and I can jump on the hate-bandwagon with all of you. What have I lost, for having withheld for that week?
I never said he was good, just that there was a chance he might not be evil. I still believe that there could have been a chance, based on the evidence in-story we had seen up to that point.
It is only with meta-understanding of the author that people could be so sure of his guilt, and for ignoring that, I do not apologize. I read this comic as a story, rather than an author-tract, and even if it is the latter, I will not stoop to viewing it as such.
While I understand your irritation at the people who denied you immediate moral satisfaction, please try not to strawman us all. We withheld judgement, and are now no longer doing so. If someone sincerely thinks Clint is still a good person or might be, I will be right there with you, arguing against them.
First, no, you don’t need to know anything about Willis to read the signs that Clint was an abusive asshole. Go back on the last couple strips, or even back to the one where Ruth got that phone call, and you’ll find plenty of people recognizing the red flags from their own personal experience.
Secondly, regarding that last paragraph, stop. You may have missed it, since a good number of comments from the last couple days have been deleted, but there have been people not simply withholding judgement or failing to recognize the red flags, but arguing – disrespectfully – with people who saw this coming, calling them overdramatic, and other bullshit.
Nobody is being strawmanned here, there really were people being that asinine.
I love Billie’s expression in panel five, myself. It is so exactly the expression kittens make when they are experimenting with play-fighting. “This is a bite, yes? I am so fierce and a mighty warrior and slayer of catnip mousies?” I just hope Clint hasn’t raised kittens enough to know that you need to shut that down RIGHT away with kittens.
…Scratch that, I just hope Clint gets his head knocked straight before anyone lets him near kittens, ever.
Except when people see smoke, nobody argues with the people insisting there’s fire, that something else MUST be creating smoke, and we should just give it a chance
Even though smoke can be created without fire, assuming you’re really bad at creating fire
But even then it’s a sign that the CONDITIONS of fire are present in some form, and even if there’s no actual fire it’s likely there either was or will be, and this metaphor is getting confusing so I’ll stop
Ruth’s reason she could not kill herself despite being suicidal and wanting to was enough that there was no legitimate deniability after his 2nd panel.
He lays on its back, his belly baking in the hot sun, beating his legs trying to turn himself over. But he can’t. Not without your help. But you’re not helping. Why is that, Leorale?
If she can just barely reach his face with her kick, it won’t hit very hard.
She could probably kick him in the face from the ground–I could have done that to somebody a head taller than me when I was practicing, and I’m a fatty–the problem is it wouldn’t be terribly effective.
Plus that’s not a very fighty kick — you don’t want to risk throwing yourself off-balance, he’s free to defend his face, and skulls are hard. You want squishy vulnerable bits that are conveniently close by.
The More You Knowwww
Okay, but like Billie is, in her own words, an “alpha bongo” and has literally kicked down Ruth’s door. We know she’s more than capable of kicking someone’s skull in.
Not if she can barely reach it, though. You gotta kick like you want your foot to go through (and it kinda will, since faces move conveniently out of the way when they get kicked).
The point when your foot stops moving isn’t where you want to hit. You gotta hit before that.
Not quite, but it was still kind of there. Idk. I really like Billie, and wanted to assert how awesome she is. Although, honestly I love all of the female characters so much, like almost all of them are so kickass; Amber/AG, Ruth, Billie, Carla, Joyce, Sal, Dina, Sarah, Jocelyn to an extent… (Becky’s more of a punk than a fighter, but she’s smarter than you’d assume, and has good sense.) And yet, their ability to fight isn’t theatrical in any way (save AG), it just is. Like yes please, I love these wonderful, capable women. I need more of them. And now I’m gushing, and please help me…
A jumping kick in a fight if you aren’t somebody who has years of practical experience in a kicking-centric martial art is still just inherently stupid, though. It’s a huge risk that can be massively punished and puts you in a terrible position, and it doesn’t actually carry that much more force than a grounded kick unless you’re full-tilt diving in.
If she wants to kick him in the head, kick the side of his knee in, first. You’d be surprised how much easier it is to land a devastatingly hard kick to the head when somebody is already on the ground.
Also, a kick is only as good as how high your leg can stretch. I’ve been out of practice in MMA for like 7 years now, but my legs can still stretch pretty damn high. Way higher than my head. My brother is about 7 inches taller than me, but I almost kicked him in the shoulder yesterday when he asked how high I could kick.
He lacks the spruce mustache to be…oh wait, do you mean Franklin? Then in that case he needs to be in a wheelchair. P.S. Clint looks way more like an evil Churchill to me. Give him a cigar and one of Churchill’s signature hats and take away his glasses and they could be twins.
Mr. Billingsworth: *sniff* “I am so proud of you Billie. Now I don’t need to worry about the family business.”
Billie: “Wait. What?”
Mr. Billingsworth: “Yeah, the company’s just a front. I’m actually the leader of an Irish mob family with it’s roots in the prohibition era. I might have to ‘discipline’ some of the underlings in order for them to accept you as heir apparent, but that should be easy enough.”
His grandfather changed the family last name after the Easter uprising in 1916 to secretly smuggle arms to Michael Collins’s IRA without raising the suspicion of being anything more than an American merchant. The original name was O’Riley. They still use it when talking mob business, but for all other things he uses the cover name his grandfather came up with. He also owns a third Chicago, has half of Ohio and Pennsylvania in his pocket, and is the shadow ruler of Massachusetts. He’s trying to expand his Great Lakes operations by establishing a smuggling route between Canada and Northern Michigan, and is one of the ten most power criminals in the country, with a couple of moles in the FBI, the NSA, and even one in the CIA for good measure. All while being the magnanimous “Mr. Billingsworth” to the public.
Magnanimous to rich people anyways, but once he kicks all the poor people out of downtown, the only ones left will be rich (or at least middle class, which he SUPPOSES he can tolerate if he has to), so who cares what poor folks have to say anyways?
Where do you think he’s been getting his smugglers? He buses the homeless out of the cities and then offers them tenant housing on the Great Lakes if they join the smuggling ring. Otherwise he sends them to Utah.
Could work. But now I picture Billie slipping into a heavy Cockney accent whenever she gets angry, while having a “normal” American accent the rest of the time. It is damn hilarious.
Ok, wasn’t planning on liking this, but now I do and except it as head-cannon. I also now choose to believe that Walky calls it “Billie’s angry Hong Kong Brit mode”.
Honey, my dad has tried to yell the depression out of me some days just calling me a lazy ass. He was also against antidepressants until a doctor flat out told him I wouldn’t survive without them and could never be off them for the rest of my life. It’s a not uncommon view on depression, but just because some people think it, doesn’t make it true or allow it to hold up against hard facts. Think anti-vaxxers.
I’m saying they believe “facts” that are not facts but opinions and think it’s just an alternative viewpoint/approach which goes against real facts, but not their twisted version of facts. And it wasn’t a response so much to you personally, just what you said (rather honest or sarcastic) to outline the problem abuse victims face when the abuser twists reality and facts to their liking still believing they are true and correct instead of what it is.
facts are just opinions. opinions are just ideas i haven’t decided whether or not they are facts. ideas don’t exist unless i believe in them. i only believe in facts.
Yeah. This hits close. I tried to kill myself when I was 16, and my parents gave me a good dressing down about how I should stop asking to have friends come over late and I had a lot of work to do to re-earn their trust.
Holy shit, what a wretched piece of shit asshole shitstain bastard of a person. Fuck that guy. Punch him harder, Billie.
Also, I love Billie coming to Ruth’s defense, like a knight in shining armor. (cheerleading uniform counts as armor, these are facts). I love these girls trying their best in a shitty situation stacked against them and I love their love.
And once more for good measure: fuuuuccccckkkk that guy.
At least Mary has the self-awareness to know that trying to get someone to kill themselves is bad. Sir apparently sees Ruth’s suicide attempt as nothing more than an insult to himself.
mary is more malignant, but that’s only because she has less power. this guy has more power, so he doesn’t have to be malignant all the time – unless it gets him what he wants. which is ruth cringing into a puddle of malleable goo.
A solution presents itself! If Billie follows him around constantly and pathetically fistbops his arm, he’ll be too distracted to be abusive! Probably maybe not at all!
What does this solve, you ask? Why, the WACKY HIJINX deficiency!
I’m still not sure whether she actually tries to hurt me and she’s just really bad at it, or she thinks an actual attack wouldn’t work out for her for various reasons.
“The cane is more for show than anything else. And punching more wouldn’t do anything; I’ve fought in wars, kid.”
“…I didn’t think it could get any more awkward.”
(Also, I apologize if you try to talk to me and I don’t respond; I mostly just a few comments in the night, when I have some spare time, and am too lazy/buzy to add on that during the day. In daytime, I’m mostly found on a website for young writers.)
This kind of makes me hope he is so insulted that he tells her out right to hit him as hard as she can, and then Amazigirl comes in with a foldable metal chair and takes up his offer
Which is my way of echoing what knightsbridge said above — there’s a really good chance no one has ever stood up for Ruth like this before. And having even just one person on your side in the face of a lifetime of abuse feels like a goddamn actual miracle.
i mean like a lot of disney villains were based on real things
gaston is frighteningly real
it’s not that unrealistic that a stepmother might try to kill her stepdaughter in a weirdass competition when patriarchy sets women against each other literally all the time
frollo is…unpleasantly realistic
hans is that douchebag who’s willing to lie to a girl to get what he wants and doesn’t give a damn
gothel’s manipulation is like. textbook emotional abuse
like the psychology of disney villains has to make sense in order for them to be believable threats so there are ties to real things even though it’s a fantastic setting and written for children. i mean. people go on about dickensian levels of cruelty but charles dickens was a reporter before he was a novelist and a lot of his level of detail comes from his understanding of the class inequalities and realities of his world
See, Hans to me makes the least sense, but thats probably more because he was a rewrite villain they weren’t willing to completely commit to how much of a conniving douche he was, preceded by a somehow almost perfectly choreographed duet.
I mean, Gaston is a lot more consistent and still seems like one of the creepiest Disney villains to me. If only because Hans wouldn’t go full creeper cause all he wanted was the throne and not the girl as well, instead of Gaston’s full fledged plans to get Belle to marry him and have infinite babies. Or colluding to throw her father in an insane asylum to force her hand in marriage, etc.
Still, I mean a Ryan is a Hans done more properly than Disney could ever allow in their stuff, so yeah, still a horrible type of person that exists in the real world as well.
idk partially that’s the fault of screentime, i think – they had four main characters. Elsa, Anna, Hans and Kristoff. and then Olaf. like – Hans gets a song, whereas the prince charmings of snow white and cinderella get barely a scene or two. it can be difficult to signal subtle untrustworthiness when you’re trying to make a shock reveal. Hans was always gonna be just what Anna wanted until he got what he wanted. idk we’re more presented with his actions than with his reasoning which can be confusing
Especially since the asshole who was the basis of many of the cartoon villains in the 80s and 90s is now in control of the US and outdoing his fictionalized counterparts. There is apparently no depth a cartoon can sink to that a human can’t outdo.
can’t we do that after the funeral? i spent a really long time faking this will that bequeathes all his possessions to his grandkids giving them monetary independence
“I wish that they could walk forever,
On the earth, alone, unfettered
Til they pray for consolation,
Til they beg for sweet damnation
Then I’ll come and bring them water,
Bring them hope, bring them laughter
Raise their hopes so sad and sunken
Slash them up as they lie there drunken
Push them down into the foul mud
‘Til they choke up on their own blood
Drag them out before their last breath
To take away the mercy of death”
Thank you! Uh, since I believed the red flags personally but also felt it was necessary to point out that there was only circumstantial evidence, where do I go on line?
I want everyone who said ‘maybe we should have ignored Ruth and Billie saying that he was an asshole and given him another chance to abuse Ruth before disliking him’ to apologize and fuck right off, but not in that order.
i’ll post this again here:
I don’t think most of those people were defending him. Believing that Ruth is/has experienced abuse/trauma and wanting to reserve judgement on Clint until he explicitly says or does something abusive are not mutually exclusive camps
Several times I’ve told friends my father is abusive. they believed me but thet didn’t immediately start ignoring him or treating him differently when they saw him out and about
Giving him another chance was never part of my argument – strictly just wanted to wait for more evidence (which I got yesterday) – but I believe I am still included in your address.
This will be the fourth time I acknowledge that you were correct. I will continue to do so, because I do believe it is important that you see that people like me (not that all of the people you are addressing are like me) are doing this out of doubt, not bias.
Not doubt of Ruth, but doubt of everything and anything that we cannot verify. I am a scientist, and I do truly apply doubt to positive things as much as negative things. While all my fellows might not be quite so even-handed, I do not feel that my doubt was in itself a moral failing, for it was so easily and quickly removed. I updated on new information, as I knew I would, for it was certain to be forthcoming. I did not pre-judge, because pre-judging, as a class of action, is exactly what your enemies do, and will no more do it in your defense than I would against you.
I will agree that you were correct. I will apologize for the hurt that my withholding judgement caused you, but I will not apologize for the action itself. Prejudice is an evil in this world. My only crime was not having as much information as you, either about abuse, how Willis portrays it, or how Willis writes in general.
They will never be satisifed. The next time a character tries to warn us that they’re terrified of someone, there will be a small army in the comments insisting that bongoes Be Crazy, Ya’ll.
Unfortunately Clint did not end up like the guy in Hamilton who also got told “Thank you for your service” (Washington to Charles Lee after Lee got shot in the duel).
No, actually. Which strip was that? I know Ryan’s cover was a “psycho-bongo” story, but I don’t remember anyone calling her out for fighting back. Link please?
There were also the guys who argued that Becky not investing the 20 bucks she got off Billie was proof that she was a spendthrift wastrel, that Toedad might not be that bad when he’d already pulled out the gun and was chasing her, and the folks who didn’t see anything transphobic in any of Mary’s actions and thought that she was really invested in her studies.
I dunno, I get the urge to look on the bright side, but at some point it’s got to be apparent that Willis has no interest in doing the “abuse survivor is exaggerating/making up their abuse” storyline like so many movies and TV series do and so it’s worth trusting characters and red flags earlier rather than later.
I eagerly await the next round to see their flavour of choice.
Will it be that Sal can’t be abused because Walky and Billie weren’t? Danny’s parents are just kidding? Perhaps Carol’s just REALLY REALLY upset that Joyce left without telling her? Aw, but shouldn’t Ethan try to repair his relationship with his mom?
At least we seem to have held off on Round Two for a while (and yes, I’m aware of the irony of that statement with the It’s Walky reruns going now).
The existence of the word misogyny actually proves that only men can be oppressed, I’ve heard. I think maybe there needs to be a PSA about how straw man/ paper tiger arguments are actually a bad thing.
Yep. Fifth time saying so. Making sure I make all the rounds. You were right, and now that I am no longer withholding judgement, (which is not the same as defending the guy), I am too. I was never your enemy, I was just a little slower to be your ally.
. . . .Goddammit. He’s pushing his hatred of his Son in law unto his granddaughter. Which I get his anger and where it is coming from but there is no need nor right for him to . . .push? Transfer? That anger to all that remains of his Daughter. Think she’d be down right ashamed and . . .is there a rage-filled version of mortified?
So possible to salvage the relationship but not until either a) HEAVY INTENSE counseling or b) A serious ass kicking to make him realize what he is doing.
Go Billie though. Would have been better to follow through on that punch but props for effort.
I’d wager he never came to terms with losing his daughter and is twisting his pain into the abuse he’s heaping onto Ruth.
Also, you can clearly see the cultural repression of emotional/mental suffering in his day reflected in his disdain of others’ emotional and mental suffering. (Probably in no small part due to his inability to express his own emotional suffering due to said repression.)
I’d wager he abused his daughter just as much as he’s abusing Ruth and is mostly mad at Ruth’s dad for taking his victim away from him. Hence the “weak” comment.
It doesn’t really matter. He could have loved and adored his daughter but not a damn bit of that would make a difference that he’s torturing and abusing HER daughter.
The “weak” comment is directed at Ruth’s dad too though. If anything, it seems that he sees Ruth as ‘poisoned’ by her father’s traits, and why would he care about which of her parents she reflects more if he didn’t hold one of them in high esteem?
He clearly never respected her choice of husband. He might well have been less awful to Ruth’s mom, but the way he so easily unloads this garbage on Ruth makes me extremely doubtful that he wasn’t at least a controlling, demanding, Tywin Lanister-esque father. Love doled out sparingly, only as long as you follow the path he’s laid out for you.
Oh no, I concur that he was probably only slightly less of a bastard to his daughter than he is to his granddaughter, but I think he still thought of her as his daughter and probably thought he was doing the right thing.
Someone should remind Pvt Hughes that the only one who gets chewed out is him, by his CO. And then put him on PT until he dies of old age.
My thought process is the daughter was a bauble to him. And Ruth’s father was a thief who stole that bauble from him, far away from his plans for her. And that’s why he’s the villain.
Well, we know he slept with Billie’s mom in the Walkyverse so it’s very probable DaddyRuth was a scumbag. That doens’t mean anything Clint has done is justified or he’s not worse, though.
Exactly. He might have treated his daughter better than Ruth (or not), but it was still very likely his path, his plans, his decisions.
Even if Ruth’s father actually was a jerk, it’s also quite possible her mom latched on to him as a way of getting out of Clint’s control. Which just reinforces Clint’s need to keep control of Ruth.
Possible to salvage the relationship, but so not a priority. Priority is getting Ruth and Howie out from under his control.
After a decade or so out of his influence, they can decide whether it’s worth it to them. When they can interact more as equals. People change. Stranger things have happened.
But right now, it’s damage control. That relationship is the least important thing to be concerned about.
If he hates Ruth’s late father why is he bothering with Ruth? Is it simply that he knows he’ll lose Howard if he doesn’t pretend to have some feelings for her?
Probably more that Ruth (& Howard) represent his daughter’s legacy, hence why he still supports them despite his clear hatred of the fact that they are also his son-in-law’s legacy.
I’m starting to think Clint here took losing his daughter harder than Ruth and Howard took losing their mother. Doesn’t excuse his behavior in the slightest, but it takes some serious damage to warp someone’s view of their own family to that extent.
His utter vitriolic hatred for the man she married is a sure sign he didn’t really respect her though. He doesn’t give a damn that she loved him, anymore than he cares that he was the father of her children and his grandchildren.
I strongly doubt he kept that opinion to himself while they were alive, either. Granddick his clearly why they moved to Canada.
Abusers work in messed up way regardless of how they feel. They’ll do things to harm them and establish the idea that they hold all the power, then they make a show of it by cutting off escape routes. This one puts effort into making it look like he cares about Ruth by going out of his way to secure a job for her, help her pay for her education, so that Ruth would be made to feel like she owed him, and to put “Everyone sees what a caring person I am for you, so they’ll never believe you if you try to get out of this situation.” Abusers may show preferential treatment to siblings for some reason. To excuse their abusive behavior, they set up a narrative where they claim one child is nothing but selfish, ungrateful, and horrible while the other can do no wrong. Maybe he holds them both with contempt and just decided Ruth was the easier target because she would keep silent about it as long as she could keep Howard from facing the same fate. Ruth’s emotional and mental distress makes her a target as well, seeing as he hated her father for his own.
It’s also possible that Howard acts more like their mother than Ruth does, and therefore Clint sees him as “surrogate child” while Ruth is “the last remnants of the man who took my daughter”. I don’t know how to write the second in-quotes to sound unsympathetic towards Clint. Goodness knows he doesn’t deserve it. Understanding perhaps, but NOT sympathy.
That’s what I thought. The narrative of “you’re just like the son-in-law I hate” pairs really nicely with “your brother is just like my daughter,” further explaining why Ruth may be getting worse treatment than Howie.
A key word is unfortunately “ownership”. He doesn’t LIKE his daughters choices, but he still OWNS the offspring. After all, Ruth’s job is an INVESTMENT.
I know every time an abusive person shows up in this strip we have to deal with jerks in the comments all “Heaven forbid I think we might see something different than THIS tired old plot device again!” but I just want to say this comic is quite honestly the best depiction of the various incarnations of abuse, some unconscious and some deliberate, some blatant and some insidious, that I’ve ever seen handled in any medium. This can’t be easy to write, emotionally, and I’m so grateful that it exists and so sorry that Willis has to put up with all the jerks in the comments talking over the lived experiences of the writer and other readers to complain that it’s so unrealistic how many bad parents there are in the story.
If we get a parent who’s so uncaring that their response to being informed of a suicide attempt is ‘ignore it’ followed by ‘get angry when the person tells someone else because it makes them look bad’, we’ll have my Dad and Willis will have Abuser Bingo. Who do you think comes closest? Ethan? Danny?
It’s really well done, yeah. And super therapeutic to see these sorts of plot lines played straight and handled with genuine respect to the subject matter.
Holy fucking shit. Oh my god. Oh my god. Dad has said that. Except it’s how I’m like my mother and… I think I’m gonna be sick. ANY FUCKING PERSON WHO THINKS VERBAL ABUSE ISN’T AS BAD AS PHYSICAL, READ THIS STRIP AND THEN KISS MY LILY WHITE ASS! Stop being a Chloe people. Start being a Billie. Listen and protect us god fucking damn it!!!
You are a wonderful, valuable person in your own right. I've really appreciated getting to read your insights in the comment threads. You've given me a broader perspective and made me a better person.
I'm sorry to you and anyone else who's had to deal with this crap.
Yeah, right now my level of rage at all the people over the past few strips who said we just neeeeeeeed to give Clint a chaaaaaaaance is well past Hulk rage and into something resembling a supernova. Fuck that.
Oh yes. All the people excusing his actions like I’ve heard countless times before. I imagine poor Willis had his work cut out for him deleting so many nasty comments not to mention seeing all the comments we never do because they are by first time posters.
I’ve lived through every type of abuse imaginable and the verbal abuse has had just as much effect as the physical and sexual and caused just as much lasting pain. I agree with you 100% and I’m sorry for all you’ve been through. *Supportive gesture of your choice*
Yes. I agree. I remember all the times I wanted my biological mother to hit me so I would know what she was doing was wrong, but she never did. She did try to kill me a few times but that was food related and easy enough to convince me that was an oops. The verbal never really goes away I don’t think.
*Hug* I can get what you mean, my father hit the trifecta, but my mother was always more verbally abusive and that made it harder to see what she was doing. I’m pretty sure none of it ever goes away, you just learn how to keep living and heal as best as you can.
I’ve often wondered if my parents were narcissist. At least that’s what I’m assuming you mean. My best friend was raised by a narcissistic mother who kept hurting her until last year when she went no contact. It’s been hard on her but it has helped her a lot and she’s not sick as often. I think my dad shows signs of it but I’m not sure being unable to be objective. My biological mother… I have no clue what her deal was but I doubt it was just one thing because boy was she a hot mess.
I am happy this is being brought up though even though it hurts. It’s shining a light on verbal abuse and how charming people find them. Billie recognizing the trouble Ruth is in and intervening actually helped my state of mind after seeing Chloe who acted just like most observers I’ve seen act.
Before someone decides to point it out, I and everyone like me understand that Ruth is not real, but real or not she is experiencing what a lot of us have. It brings up a lot of memories and feelings for us, so to trivialize what she is going through is to trivialize what we went through. We are raw right now from it and emotions are running high. If you don’t understand, imagine seeing a movie that hits you hard a while after someone you were close to died; rather it’s comics, movies, or music, good media has a way to pull the emotions out you thought weren’t there anymore.
I’m afraid that I have, from time to time, been tempted to remind people of the MST3K motto. But I see, in this case particularly, how much the events in the Dumbiverse resonate with the reality of some folks’ lives.
I’ll check my privilege a bit better if I can, and I’ll try to keep from being the “it’s only a comic” guy from now on.
*hugs accepted* I completely understand where you were coming from and I’m glad that I was able to help you understand why we react how we do to things like this. *gives extra comforting hugs*
Thank you. It was so kind of you to say. Sometimes it’s hard to remember that I’m not the things they called me. I have 2 great friends I talk to daily who are more like family than the people who are alive and share my blood. I still love my dad and I think he loves me, but our relationship isn’t healthy.
Ditto. I’ve only recently realized that I’ve been scared of going back to school and assuming that it’s somehow a bad choice only because they used to berate me whenever I stated an interest in doing so.
Realizing that has made it easier to gather my application stuff, but there’s always a moment here and there where I get utterly paralyzed and I hear their voices saying it’s a dumb stupid idea.
Also – I believe a number of Canadian institutions will accept an American teaching credential (depending on the teachable – you should be okay for math and science, as those are true no matter what country you’re teaching in).
You are a good teacher. You care about and support your students and expose a lot of them to a positive trans role model. Going back to school is a great idea. It will open you up to teach in more places and allow you to go to another country if push comes to shove. It’s worth it because you are worth it. Go part time if you need to. Even if you only enroll in one class, that’s one less class you have to take later. 🙂
So here’s my question to people that have dealt with real abuse situations: is it a good idea to get physically involved? whether to give the abuser a beatdown or just physically separate the victim?
It depends, it can endanger you or make it worse for them, but if it’s a public enough place and the proper steps are taken to get proof or if it’s life or death it can help. However, verbal involvement is usually the better option especially if you shout loudly enough to be heard and draw attention.
This. Usually de-escalation is the best bet. There’s a big movement right now called “you okay, sis” which is basically politely stepping in during an act of abuse and asking the person being abused if they are okay. Reminds the abuser that his actions are being seen and lets the survivor know others see something going on and that it’s not normal.
Still runs risks. Abusers tend to be real volatile and it takes very little to set them off and many love to plan “revenges” for home in response to being “publicly embarrassed”.
But it’s the current best practice for bystanders if you can handle it.
Definitely. I actually had someone do this for me, when I was being forced to have visitation with my father because my parents were divorcing at the same time as his assault trial was happening, it meant the world to me.
Not really, sadly. Much as I enjoy the spectacle of Dads getting sent to the Amazi-Girl Recovery Ward, 1. They’ll take it out on the abuse victim later, 2. someone who’s practiced violence for much of their life tends to get good at it, 3. the police always arrest for the retaliation but rarely for the instigation.
I should note that I’m talking about physical violence up there. Which, while I feel that it’s not just morally justifiable but a positive good in this case, it makes the situation worse. Intervening nonviolently tends to help.
Unfortunately there’s no one-size answer, every situation is different, but usually it’s bad to get in there physically. Don’t escalate situations if you can help it. It’s usually better to offer the victim support, such as walking them to a safe place to stay.
I wish someone had.
But until the then- stepfather’s final act, everything had been done away from other witnesses. Even our mother had doubts, not helped by his psychology degree which helped him explain why we kids would make up this stuff.
I’m as okay as anyone now, but it was tough when “real” family did not believe us.
Not experienced it myself but I wanted to chime in this important bit of information: The best predictor of the abuser’s response is the victim’s instincts.
So if the specific individual tells you it is a bad idea, it is a bad idea.
honestly like:
1) know that nothing that may or may not happen is your fault. everyone is responsible for their own actions, and whatever the abuser may say they are responsible for their own.
2) survive. whatever it is you need to do to survive, do that thing, because the end goal here is getting out in one piece as much as you can. if that is walking away, then that is perfectly acceptable. evaluate your risks, and do what you’ve got to do.
3) de-escalation, usually, is the best bet. sometimes this means cutting in, distracting, and modelling the behavior that you want to see. sometimes this means cutting in, distracting, and continuing the distraction, although that’s not going to be a method that lasts forever and the abuser will probably go back to their grievance. getting the victim out of the situation is a top priority for their own mental health; but this can be weighed against how likely the abuser is to lash out, whether getting out is even possible, what they do after they get out, etc. a lot of pieces in the puzzle.
4) change the paradigm. don’t make it about how ruth is troubling everyone; make it about how brave ruth is for continuing on despite struggling so much. you have as much control over the reality you live in as the abuser does, so make them work to meet you in your reality. don’t be afraid to push to get the things that you want. this works best if you are unfailingly polite and present everything as the most reasonable option. this is a form of positive gaslighting: you act as if they are a reasonable person, and then push the behavior you expect from a reasonable person. and if they want to interact with you they have to comply. but a lot of this requires cutting off abusive actions in the bud, which is really hard to do since none of us are psychic, as far as i know. also it depends on how much the abuser knows the technique of what they are doing.
but like usually it’s not a good thing to get physically aggressive, because if they’re the manipulative kind of abuser they’ll use it as an excuse to separate the victim from you. and then take it out on the victim later.
idk like. to an extent, everyone lives in their own little realities and perceptions which is why it can be so hard to communicate with each other, sometimes. but gaslighting, essentially, is the enforcement of a particular view of reality by drowning out all the competition.
so i mean it’s a thing with a limited use – like, stating your opinion isn’t gaslighting. which tbh is usually as far as i ever go, i don’t have the stamina or the…interest to do anything more. but like you can create situations where not taking the positive approach is more against the abuser’s interests than not – i.e. an abuser won’t hit their victim in public because they know that the public will react forcefully. if you make it so that the consequences of verbally abusing, shaming and manipulating their victim in public are harmful to the abuser, then you put a strong limit on that behavior.
and, i mean, it’s pretty much impossible to actually gaslight without being abusive, even if you have good intentions. but like there’s a difference between enforcement of a particular view of reality as defense and enforcement of a particular view of reality as offense. the one sets in place, the other destroys.
At first I was disappointed Billie didn’t punch him harder, but on reflection, I kind of like this better. It must feel pretty demeaning for Clint, at the height of his (verbal) abuse, to have someone feel sorry for him. Like, that’s not how you talk to someone you feel is a physical threat.
I’d like to think that stings more than a real punch would.
I dunno, that looks less “SOMEONE ELSE KNOWS” and more “… Seriously? I’m getting verbally torn to shreds and manhandled here and you’re holding back on physically intervening because he’s a disabled veteran?”
She’s not just holding back, she’s starting the interaction at the lowest possible level of violence. But look at the results. She’s created a space between Ruth and the man who loves to close the gap and physically loom over her. Suddenly, there’s a third person involved, and somehow I don’t think Billie will stay at that gentle level of engagement if he threatens her or Ruth.
Remember: alpha bongo, veteran of a social game where provoking someone to strike the first blow can be very useful.
I predict Billie’s strategy in this conversation is going to be much more effective (if less satisfying) than a straight beat-down.
I’d say take his cane and shove it so far up his ass it pokes out his mouth, but he’d probably never feel it with the size of the stick residing in there.
We don’t know about Ruth’s dad. Maybe he’s a generally okay person with some mental problems; Clint’s attitude towards Ruth does a pretty good job demonstrating that he’d get hostile over that. Maybe Ruth’s dad was a terrible person who Clint hates for good reason.
Either way, Ruth’s dad and Ruth are two different people, and that makes Ruth’s dad’s character completely irrelevant to how Clint is treating Ruth. He could be worse than Clint, and that still wouldn’t make this okay.
I never said he did. But in my experience, people who abuse kids like this over something their parents did are usually wrong about the people they originally hated, and let their emotions get to them.
But we don’t know the exact details of what happened, so your point still stands.
From various tidbits, this has become my headcanon:
Clint verbally abused his daughter (who I am naming ‘Happy’, because she then becomes ‘Hap Less’), who later marries Rich Lessick (‘Dick Less’) to escape from him. Clint views this as the ‘theft’ of his daughter, whom he then begins to idolize as the ‘perfect daughter’. Later (brushing over what was likely a rocky and difficult relationship), Rich and Hap die, Clint becomes Ruth’s guardian, and the cycle of abuse began again.
From what we know of Ruth’s perspective, I’d say that he was a good dad who had some form of depression. The only person that we know has ever abused Ruth is Clint, and Ruth told Billie that she started drinking as a way of dealing with the loss of her parents. Clint, who’s viewpoint I confidently say should not be trusted, is the only one who has ever implied that Ruth’s father had severe problems that interfered with his ability to be a father.
Welp, was hoping for an antagonist more nuanced than “Evil White Man pathologically controlling the women in his life” but i guess that was too much to ask for. I guess there is some tragic quality here – guy lost a person he loved and channeled his grief into hatred for a surrogate of the man he sees as responsible for the loss. I know it’s just wishful thinking on my part, but eh, gift horses mouth and all that.
Then again, i know this exists. My stepdad compared me to my biodad like this between smacking me around. He only stopped when the surge of testosterone around puberty gave me enough bone and muscle to put him in a headlock in response. I feel for Ruth – biology won’t give her the tools to fight back like it did for me.
Sure they do. Compassionate, loving parents can cheat on their significant others. They will deceive their spouses into thinking their children are theirs when they know they are not. They will deny their ex-spouses visitation rights out of spite. Sell smack to other people’s kids so theirs have food on the table. There are plenty of good people with something weighing on their conscience.
Certainly not the norm (at least I hope not) but not out of the realm of possibility.
I admit I don’t agree with avistel’s complaint either, but…you think reality is only black and white and fantasy is the only place for gray? That’s…completely backwards. Reality is complicated and people are complicated, and personally, I go to fantasy because while I like nuance, which fantasy can capture well, I also like the simple black and white/good and evil where I don’t have to worry about the gray like in reality.
Although, here in this comic, I actually would say there’s nuance of a sort. Yes, we have all these terrible parents/people, but they each have their own motivations and backgrounds that make them the way they are. They’re not just blanket evil for the sake of evil. In fact, given that people seem to have decided Ross is still the worst dad, I think it’s interesting to note that he’s probably got the most claim to believing he’s a “good person doing bad things on purpose” since he seemed to know threatening people with a gun was wrong, but a personal risk/sacrifice he believed he had to make to “save” Becky, Carol seemed to have a similar perspective, and that’s not unrealistic either.
You want that story, there’s a billion places that sell it. There’s countless tales where the abusive parental figure is just so conflicted and had to do it because loss and pain and blah blah blah.
This is the story I need. The story played straight like it is in life. Where the justifications are ad hoc behind the real intention which is power and control and toxic ideas of what makes one a man.
Where we aren’t asked to sympathize with the abuser over humanizing his victim.
Absolutely! And between Blaine, Ross and this fucker we are able to see nuances. They act in slightly different ways, with slightly different fallouots. Clint is most like Blaine, but while Blaine was escorted out by Asma, Clint has an appointment with high officials of the school.
From what I remember of your posts, you have had a rather nasty experience with this side of society. Can’t say I blame you for that attitude.
What is it that makes it right for you? Seeing the abuser brought to justice, something that need not happen in real life? Or just the story itself being told as you’ve experienced it?
The latter. To see my experiences told. To not have that story end in “but the victim should have tried harder to see the good in him, because look at what a tortured soul he was”.
That’s something I don’t really get to see most anywhere else.
The fact that the stories also often end with escape and the abused finding their own form of an upper hand also is really really nice, because it’s nice to remember that their ghosts won’t always haunt me.
Reading something for a sense of hope and having your story told makes perfect sense to me.
I might roll my eyes and grumble that these characters are a bit Hallmark movie-ish at times, I’m not gonna stop reading it because for one reason or another I find this comic compelling enough to come see what happens next.
Yep, I’m right there with you, avistel. I was a little disappointed to find out that so many people could be absolutely sure of Clint’s character because ‘that’s how Willis writes this’, but it is still worth reading, for all that it is apparently unforgivably predictable.
Y’know, there are enough stories out there where the asshole shitstain person (usually an asshole shitstain while male person, because those are awarded the most nuanced storytelling in most media, still, in the year 2017) gets a redeeming quality to make the audience feel conflicted or whatever. I’m glad this doesn’t have that. Because it sure feels nice to just fucking hate a person who deserves to be hated.
In this, sure, a little bit. But I just meant it more like.. it’s hard to explain, but it feels NICE that we’re getting the character we were ‘promised’, from the way Ruth talked about him, was afraid of him, etc. There is no fake-out here. She was scared as shit of him and has made that very clear and now we’re seeing him and we see that she was 100% right about him and that validates Ruth’s thoughts and feelings, which is something that is so SO needed in fiction. A girl says someone is an abuser. We see this guy being an abuser. This is GOOD. We’ve believed Ruth from the start, but it’s just good to see him in action and be the asshole we knew he was. Because that shit is RARE in fiction.
Idk, did that make sense? It’s 7am and I have barely slept, excuse me if I incoherently rambled :p
I think the last time there was character like Clint in the mainstream media was probably Robert Di Niero’s (god I hope I spelled his name right, I like a lot of his work) character in “Raging Bull” this completely unredeemable abusive piece of shit who was very real. It was the reaction of American audiences to this movie that led Martin Scorsese to claim that Americans no longer wanted “smart movies” or “tough movies” that were realistic portrayals of humans, but instead “easy movies” that had a guaranteed happy ending with a clear black and white morality. Sorry, my inner movie nerd is speaking.
honestly i think if he loved his daughter he wouldn’t be such a jerk to his granddaughter. it doesn’t take that much self-awareness to see how cruel this is. but like, even if he really truly loved his daughter – it doesn’t justify his behavior now. emotions don’t justify wrong behavior. someone can have all the gushy emotions they want but if they still run around berating the people around them for not fitting into their mold of what people should be they are not loving people and all the gushy emotions in the world won’t make up for that cruelty
idk it’s one thing to not know how to love someone; it’s another to go out of your way to rip somebody apart; it’s another to not be able to look at your own actions and evaluate them accordingly
I suspect it’s a ‘rose-colored glasses’ type of thing. I suspect he abused his daughter as he abuses Ruth. But later, she was ‘stolen’ from him by Ruth’s dad, and her absence made him idolize her – she COULDN’T have left voluntarily she loved him, it’s all that no-good thief of a father’s fault.
I mean, the fact than anyone who didn’t know Willis well enough to know exactly what Clint was going to be like was punished for it suggests that his writing is extremely predictable, regardless of the level of nuance used.
Or perhaps Willis nicely foreshadowed the nature of his character. That’s setting things up properly, not being predictable.
It was easy to predict Clint was an abuser because he’d already laid that out in bits of Ruth’s interaction with and comments about him. That’s not even prediction, that’s just what we’ve already been told. If he’s so predictable, what’s the actual resolution of this sequence? I certainly didn’t predict or expect Clint to show up and push Ruth back into the RA job, nor do I recall seeing that as a common prediction.
Ohh, yes, it certainly takes a ton of energy for me to half-heartedly complain about the story not taking a twist I was hoping for. I know that Willis can write with nuance, Ruth is a perfect example of it, what with despite her abusive behavior towards Billie early on – up to and including fucking sexual assault not automatically making her a fucking werewolf who could not have acquired this psychopathology from her asshole granddad…
Know what? I don’t have to explain myself to you, kindly shove your condescension and your “dude” right up your ass.
Very minor quibble compared to the actual conversation here, but I’m pretty sure biology and practice have already given Ruth the physical strength to fight back. I think she could take Clint pretty easily — she beat Blaine, who doesn’t need a cane. It’s the emotional abuse that’s crushing her.
Actually her move here was kind of brilliant in its own way. She interrupted the situation and supported Ruth, casually threw some shade at “Sir,” and didn’t get sent to prison for assault. All in all, a win for her and Ruth.
And I imagine the next few strips are going to end with a more complete and satisfying victory for her and Ruth than a straight beat-down would. Because Billie is an alpha bongo.
Hit him again! As hard as you can! Preferably in a soft, painful spot!
His service isn’t his pass on being human, it’s supposed to be his proof that he is and wants to save and protect fellow humans. I hate this: “He’s a soldier, he can be as shitty as he wants” bull.
Somebody get Billie a steel chair… and somebody throw a party to celebrate Ruth’s father, even if he sucked, just to spite Clint.
Also, sidenote: the Slipshine preview is adorable!
Well, yeah, usually, but the idea of going out to protect your people’s freedom and maybe free an oppressed country while you’re out there does sound awful neat on paper.
I actually feel bad for soldiers who enlist with THAT idea in their head and then they either find out they’re murdering civilians for oil oligarchies or they deny reality and tell themselves they’re the true defenders of freedom
Dude, don’t. Most veterans I know are folks with no other means out of poverty than to take a job that comes with a giant wallop of PTSD. The vast majority of soldiers in the fields are there because they’d be starving otherwise and want a chance to have a better life.
It’s the rich smug assholes at home that send them to die for nothing but bullshit and oil.
An additional note, a disproportionate amount of the military is recruited from the traditionally “Southern states”, which are often already entirely reliant on the military-industry complex. Take, for example, a few years ago when congress voted to build hundreds of tanks that the army neither needed nor wanted. The reason it was brought up? A member of congress from West Virginia needed the tanks to be built so that their constituents would actually have jobs. It’s created a problem where for many states in the area need the federal government to have high military spending and constantly producing arms and material for soldiers through contracts with private companies, because otherwise what fragile economy they have will come collapsing down. And the only way such a system can be maintained is through perpetual war.
Wow… I have underestimated Billie all this time. That was such a perfect deflection and deescalation.
She made sure to insert herself in the situation and stop the abuse, but she did so in a silly and inoffensive way. This will make it hard for him to get Ruth on their own and allow Ruth to get away from the actual situation. Anything Clint does now to escalate will make him look stupid.
She was obviously a more effective alpha bongo than I gave her credit for. Come to think of it, she used a similar tactic on a certain brother-in-spirits to “Sir”.
Like maybe somebody can unpack this for you if Willis doesn’t delete your comment, I’m too tired for it right now, but rest assured, you don’t get to be disappointed in people because they got sick, you don’t get to tell people they are mostly made of shit, etc. When your brain says this to you, that you’re a disappointment for getting sick and/or unworthy, it is also not okay or true.
Do you understand what mental illness is? If you REALLY want to claim he has every right to be disappointed, fucking whatever, go for it. That’s a threshold I don’t even want to look at.
But do NOT defend verbal and what looks like to be the onset of physical abuse (he may have physically abused her when she was younger, but the hands on the wrists? Billy should have laid him out THERE). There is no excuse.
Wow, what a fucking idiot. That remark in panel 3 is actually quite disrespectful to Ruth’s mother. Sure, Clint. Her father was the ONLY one who found immortality through Ruth, because you didn’t like him, so that’s all you can fucking see. Never fucking mind the fact that a child is a combination of BOTH parents, no, let’s just completely disregard that. Ruth absolutely did not deserve to lose her mother, just to be clear. Clint, however, deserved to lose his daughter, and he honestly has no right to be upset about her death in the first place.
And what’s more, Mr. Lessick may very well have had depression as well, and Ruth’s mother could have been the one to pull him out of the darkness and supported him thru every moment he felt horrible and worthless. But Clint couldn’t see that, oh no, to him the man his daughter fell in love with and married was a spineless weaklong undeserving of her.
Assuming the pattern holds and it likely does: Mr Lessick, whatever his flaws, was Ruth’s mother’s break with the path Clint had ordained for her. And very likely a way of getting out from under his control.
The comment system on Shortpacked had a name that started with a d, and it was horrible for Willis to moderate. Offering it as a suggestion is a good way to earn Willis’ mild ire.
I bet you the reason he talks like this is because appearance-wise, Ruth and Howard both took after their father. I haven’t been able to find any pictures of him in color, but if he was Irish and that’s where their red hair and freckles come from… yeah. It would also mean Howie is also a target, even if it’s to a lesser degree than Ruth.
I think it would be understandable if he was disappointed. You know, the same way that it’s understandable that your heroin addict brother would steal your jewelry to buy a couple pounds of heroin and shoot up. It would be a flaw, a problem that hopefully could be fixed. I don’t think Clint has “the right” to be disappointed though. Just because Clint doesn’t consider suicidal depression to be a big deal doesn’t mean it isn’t, or that responsible people shouldn’t try to disabuse him of that notion.
Well it obviously is a big deal to him considering how it somehow affected her daughter and his son in law. HE’s projecting onto Ruth, which is bad. He’s being ignorant, which is bad. It just looks like he doesn’t know how to deal with Ruth’s condition. Lots of people are ignorant. It never felt like anyone really understood how depressed I was when I was younger. Sometimes you realize how lucky some other are for not being able to empathize. People here act as if he wants Ruth to fail, but nobody pulls strings for people they despise.
You have a lot to learn about reasonable vs unreasonable behaviour. Maybe start with a book on Boundaries. (someday I’ve got to figure out exactly which parts of which books/articles taught me the important things…)
also, “nobody pulls strings for people they despise.” is false.
Yeah, people being ignorant and not understanding mental illness are also why women got burned as witches. They don’t deserve a “oops, they didn’t know any better” either.
Clint doesn’t just “not understand depression”. He is a fucking abysmal, abusive failure as a parent even before you take Ruth’s depression and dead parents into account.
This goes beyond ignorance. This is actively malicious. There is no excuse for treating someone this way.
Regarding your last line…..they do. They do it all the time. Pulling strings gives you a means to control them, or creates a debt (or an illusion of debt) and provides fuel for a good old fashioned guilt trip or berating.
i’m very curious about ruth’s parents. i have so many questions. but i also am having trouble verbalizing them so for now i will just say: wwwwwww you go billie
He doesn’t even have a right to be disappointed, because frankly, being disappointed in someone for clinical depression is about as stupid as being disappointed in them for losing a leg in an accident they had no control over.
What he has is the responsibility and duty to be concerned for Ruth, and being it for Ruth’s sake, not his own!
Well, Dina called to tell them she had a girlfriend, and within a few moments, without any judgement, they wired her $200 to take Becky out somewhere nice. They’re clearly the most abusive parents in the entire comic.
They are like…super cool. They sent Dina money to take her girlfriend out on a date when they were told about it, if I remember correctly.
I mean the worst thing they did was accidentally insist that Blaine wait inside the dormroom for his daughter, because they did not realize what a horrible monster he was at the time and Dina was unable to keep them from doing so. So a bit of naivety and trying to be polite?
A list of parental units we know who do not suck from the main cast page (not even counting folks like Sierra’s parents, who rock)
– Hank Brown
– Deborah Keener
– Jeramiah Keener
– Stacey O’Malley
– Ryou Saruyama
– Haruka Saruyama
– Bonnie MacIntyre
– Harriet Warner
– George Warner
– Mr. Rutten
– Mrs. Rutten
We haven’t met Jacob’s parents and we don’t know Marcie’s current relationship with them, but Jacob’s are implied to be positive and Marcie seems to get along with them (at least, she did as a child, and she currently worries about their being deported). Roz and Joe don’t seem to have any outstanding unhealthy dynamics with their parents, and so we can freely offer them the benefit of the doubt until they actually show up or their children disclose more about their relationship. We can also offer Sarah’s a benefit of the doubt for now, although some of her statements imply their relationship is far less healthy. It’s possible that will be due to personality clashes/misreading each other/misreading a situation, though, rather than any wrongdoing on either party, so I’m okay giving them a benefit of the doubt, although I’d put them at an ‘orange’ on the ‘green-yellow-orange-red’ scale, because a couple of her statements read like red flags to me. If you want to count ‘potentially parental family figures’ though, she had her Nana she seems to have gotten along with (although, if I’m correct, the implication is that she’s deceased). If you want to count deceased parents, we know nothing about Ruth’s parents unless you want to trust Clint who we know is trying to berate Ruth right now, and so I’m taking it with a grain of salt.
In comparison, we have 12 parents who are definitely bad.
– Carol Brown
– Linda Walkerton
– Charles Walkerton (who a LOT OF PEOPLE seem to forget, but like fuck am I letting him off the hook for his shit)
– Blaine O’Malley
– Sharon Wilcox
– Randall Wilcox
– Mr. Billingsworth
– Mrs. Billingsworth
– Naomi Siegal
– Saul Siegal
– Ross MacIntyre
– Clint Hughes
I get that it seems like a lot – bad parents make good plots. But there are far more confirmed good eggs here than confirmed bad ones, plus a few that have yet to be cracked open.
A) She delayed seeing her until later, she did not cancel on her, and Amber didn’t seem too broken up about that. She met up with her to go for dinner.
B) She had no way of knowing Blaine would show up – especially as its heavily implied he wasn’t an approved family member and therefore not allowed in the building.
C) She risked being murdered by her violent ex husband to leave and get Amber away from him and then she raised Amber on her own.
D) She’s definitely been in need of a positive sex experience.
I’m pretty comfortable putting Stacey on the good list.
I’d say Joe’s dad is at least a bad example for Joe, who seems to have learned the worst aspects of his behavior from him. Not abusive, but a womanizer and where Joe learned his take on women and consent.
The divorce was also apparently nasty enough to have left some serious scars.
Oh yeah, Richard’s a terrible role model, but he and Joe don’t seem to have a toxic or abusive relationship (although Joe wishes he’d tone down his shit).
Divorce often does, though that doesn’t make either of their relationships with Joe unhealthy or abusive.
If we’re doing a ‘green-yellow-orange-red’ scale, they’re like a yellow – not perfect, but not actively hurting Joe either in their relationship with him.
I mean, if you listen to Cerberus and Norton’s podcast, I would argue that Joe is worse off for Richard’s parenting, but I wouldn’t qualify it as abusive so much as negligent and passing along negative character traits. Whether that is a significant distinction, I cannot judge.
We now have a taste of what he has been saying to Ruth for a large portion of her life. He has made it a point to make her feel like a defect and say that her father was unworthy of the woman who loved him. And to top it off he doesn’t have a modicum of concern that Ruth was in such a drastic emergency situation. I don’t care what dollar amount he’s given to the college. He does NOT deserve any sympathy. And no one should try to be encouraging people to “see it from his perspective” because abusers justify the things they do to people no matter how horrible. He thinks he has a right to do this to Ruth even though he knows perfectly well it is wrong. He doesn’t care. And it spits in the face of people who have been in Ruth’s place to say “He has a right to be upset because of Ruth’s actions.” Because that narrative is what abusers count on from other people so they can keep their victims under their thumb.
Look at it this way, it’s not how you feel that makes you a terrible person, it’s how you act. He could be disappointed and you might sympathize with that, but he COULD react to that feeling by being supportive and finding different ways to actually help her so that his ‘investment’ wouldn’t go to waste. Instead, he reacts abusively. And that is exactly what does make him ‘completely horrible.’
Like, if my friend was supposed to help me move but they got a cold and can’t, it’s reasonable for me to be disappointed and maybe even I won’t be able to help myself from being a little irritated that I now have to move all my stuff myself. But I’m not going to go break all of my friend’s stuff and scream at them for daring to get a cold. I’m going to bring them chicken soup and cheer them up so they get better faster. And then they can help me move next weekend.
I hope that you are now in or can find a better mental space where you no longer are angry at yourself for your depression. I too know that feeling, and it’s a nasty spiral to be in.
That said, there’s a major difference between psychologically beating up on yourself and someone else doing that.
“there’s a major difference between psychologically beating up on yourself and someone else doing that.”
ehh… I’m gonna partly disagree with that. emotional abuse is just as nasty when it’s coming from inside your own head – and a lot harder to evict. :/ Abuse is abuse, regardless of the source or target.
A very good point. That said, I’m much more understanding of someone struggling with that sort of internal emotional abuse than someone who’s treating another person that way.
Clint’s pivot to Full Abuse Mode is visible in yesterday’s last frame: his affable smile disappears; he turns to steel and stone. Ruth sees this, knows what’s coming, and enlarges her frown. It’s a suspended moment before the rage erupts a second later in in-world time. Binge readers from now on won’t see the day-long gap we just experienced.
Clint has a slightly different style from Blaine, but maybe he’s just had more practice :-(.
He’s not completely horrible! He lots of parts, organs and tissues, that are probably just fine. It’s only his brain, and what it telling his vocal folds and arms do, that is being completely monstrous what the heck why would anyone imagine otherwise
Even if the problem weren’t a mental illness, he’s telling her that her father was worthless and she embodies that. Nobody should ever treat another person that way. I’m very sorry for anything that might have happened to make you think that’s anywhere in the pale for a guardian.
Eh, his explanation isn’t super important, so long as a doctor can “accidentally and tragically” fail to provide him with proper treatment, leading to his death and subsequent organ harvesting.
…so, poll: I definitely initially read Billie’s “you have a cane” as implying “and you could hit me back with it” as opposed to what I’ve just realized is probably the intended implication, “and therefore are an old and frail person”. But my boyfriend interpreted it the same way I did at first.
I thought “and therefore are an old and frail person,” but my brain kind of suspended processing until I read the whole speech bubble (Billie says “elderly, handicapped veteran” further along).
As an elderly veteran who uses a cane when walking outdoors I say “Hit the guy where it hurts” when you see someone being abusive in public. If they are verbally abusive in public they are more than likely physically abusive in private where they can’t be seen. And forget the “veteran” BS being a pass for bad behavior.
Old and frail person. Because that is the ‘nice’ reading and I tend to give characters I like and care about the benefit of the doubt at first, always. It’s kinda instinct for me. That’s why I’m always especially heart-broken when my favorite characters do shitty things.
I was already thinking about ‘can Billie beat him in a fight’ before this strip and came to the conclusion of ‘he literally needs a cane there would be nothing easier and less dignified’. So… yeah. Not so much ‘old and frail’ as ‘disabled and an easy target’.
If she does, she should at least preface it with, “Before I begin, I would like to state for the record that this in no way reflects my views on the differently-abled.”</oots>
Pablo, just because people can does not mean people should. The whole purpose of language is communication, and assigning antonymic meanings to the same word is just dumb.
I wonder whether the car crash that killed Ruth’s parents actually happened because her father was drunk, and not because of an anonymous “drunk driver” they happened to collide with.
On one hand, it would explain Clint’s anger at Ruth’s father (but in ABSOLUTELY NO WAY excuse his abuse of her). On the other hand, Ruth didn’t seem to think that was the case, and I doubt Clint would miss the opportunity to use a fact like that to torment Ruth even further.
Yeah, I was thinking that suicide was a possibility. With that comes the likelihood of a repressed guilt reaction on Clint’s part: He killed his little girl… No… No, that isn’t possible. It isn’t possible that he was so violently critical of (and possibly physically abusive about) her life choices that he drove her to suicide! No, no it must all be his son-in-law’s fault! Ugh! That girl looks and acts so much like him…!
The problem is that the psychology that Clint’s whole life taught him to have about dealing with mistakes and problems makes it very unlikely that he could ever consciously admit his own culpability. So, the transfer of blame continues and probably will get ever more violent to the point where I genuinely worry for Howie’s physical safety.
I mean, they might NOT be if he dies and leaves them money in the will, but I bet the whole “femurs” thing is enough of a trademark that it’d probably be recognized. And nobody wants the slayer exception. That’s bad for everyone.
In this day and age, I still do not understand how people who expect to be in bad situations do not set their phones to record as a matter of precaution.
On the one hand, it’s a good thing Billie didn’t actually punch the guy who’s implied to have bribed the school to keep Ruth on as an RA, because that kind of person could make her life hell. On the other, I want to see Clint’s face cartoonishly crumpled around a fist, because fuck him and everyone like him.
… I’ve never been more proud of Billie, for her kindness, her love, and her bravery, than I am now. <3 She EARNED the Hufflepuff colors she's wearing today. (Unless that's dark blue? It looks black.)
Also Mr. Hughes makes me want to puke. HIT HIM AGAIN, BILLIE, HE'S A SOLDIER, HE CAN TAKE IT, JUST DO IT!!!
As a proud Hufflepuff myself, I see what you mean, but I’d probably sort Billie into Gryffindor (learning to stand up for yourself, bravery in the face of adversity, being broken but pushing through and also the secondary Gryffindor things like attention-grabbing personality, charisma, confidence and a tendency to get into trouble).
Ruth is a Slytherin, for the record (selectively loyal, smart, secretive, calm, dangerous (in good & bad ways) and just the cool af Slytherin swagger – I love Slytherins, so these are all non-judgemental^^).
…… I think about this too much, I know lol, but sorting fictional characters into Hogwarts Houses *may* be my literal favorite thing to do in the world, so I apologize for this excessive comment :p
You seem to have a good grasp of the subject, so maybe you could answer this one. Why was a dumb, moody asshole like Ron sorted into the Kool Kidz Klub?
Moody I will give you, but ‘dumb’ is something I will not let stand about my baby Ron Weasley tbh. Sure, he isn’t book smart. But he’s instinctive and witty in a sarcastic way. He is great at Wizards Chess too, so he can’t be all that stupid 😉
He’s a Gryffindor because he is a GREAT friend. He’s supportive – even to the stupid shit Harry does – and he’s a fierce defender of things that are right and good. Sure, he’s moody, you are not wrong. He overreacts. But he’s a teenager. Harry is much, *much* worse in terms of being incredibly teenager-y annoying. (I love Harry too, but jfc he is a challenge sometimes lol). Ron has a good, pure heart. And he is attracted to goodness in other people. He’s also a balanced mix of selfish and selfless, which is a very Gryffindor thing to be. And, y’know, ‘bravery’ is such a Gryffindor buzzword, but he has that too! In his first year at Hogwarts he fights a troll to save Hermione, sacrifices himself on the Wizards Chess board and is generally the best friend to Harry that Harry has ever had.
I have a lot of Ron Weasley feelings and you were not prepared. I apoogize lol.
(also, Gryffindor is not the only cool kids club. All houses are cool. Just for different reasons :D)
Also, even if he weren’t, the Sorting Hat sorts you based on your values, not your personality. Ron values bravery, valour, and chivalry (in the sense of ‘strong sense of morality and sticking by it’, which is the sense I believe is the one intended for Gryffindor).
Which makes it even stranger that Hermione wasn’t in Ravenclaw and didn’t go on fun adventures with Cho Chang and Luna Lovegood and eventually settle into a triad with them (after Luna Lovegood comes out as genderfluid) and then become head of Human-Muggle Relations and a scientist on the side and Cho Chang plays Quidditch professionally and listen I need this okay?
Hermione made it fairly clear early in the series, actually – she said while she loves books and cleverness, she considered friendship and bravery more important. Friendship’s not really a trait for any of the houses, but bravery is pretty solidly Gryffindor.
Hermione was almost a Hatstall (where the hat can’t decide, McGonagall was one too) between Gryffindor and Ravenclaw. But the Gryffindor decision was ultimately made, I think, because Hermione deep down is a hero. An action-y, brave, glorious hero. And not just one who hides behind her books. Not that she couldn’t have been a hero in Ravenclaw, but she’d have been a different sort of hero.
And like BBCC said, she places more value on being a good person and fight for what is right, stand up for the underdog. The Gryffindor is actually pretty strong in her.
I dig your headcanon about this triad though. That could still happen even if Hermione is a Gryffindor. House Unity ftw 😉
Values inform personality though and vice versa. There is a whole culture around personality types and their correlation to Hogwarts Houses, I am deep into that, so I can’t really seperate those things anymore lol.
The Sorting Hat also famously takes into consideration what House you want and what you see yourself as, and considering Ron’t entire family are Gryffindors, that for sure also plays a part. He’s not gonna wanna be the ONE Weasley who didn’t end up as a Gryffindor.
It can, easily, but it seems like when the Hat is weighing things, values come before personality (hence why Neville got into Gryffindor despite being personally suited for and desiring to be a Hufflepuff – because he valued being brave and nerve and chivalry). When there’s a fairly strong correlation, it doesn’t bother me, but it does matter to consider values as well.
And of course it does! What better way to determine values than a person honestly requesting a specific house? (Note: It still seems to determine values as more important than just ‘this house seems cool/like a good fit for me/etc’ hence why Neville got into Gryffindor).
Now I’m curious – how would you sort the DoA kids?
Oh I feel like I have prepared all my life for this question 😀
Gryffindor: Billie, Walky. Sal, Becky, Roz, Marcie
Ravenclaw: Dorothy (she has a big Slytherin side too tho!), Dina, Ethan, Sarah
Hufflepuff: Joyce, Danny, Jacob, Amber (with the caveat that AG is basically a Death Eater) (also, not main cast: Leslie, Jocelyne)
Slytherin: Ruth, Mike, Carla, Joe, Malaya
Ooooh, I like this! I can see a good argument for Dorothy being a Hufflepuff actually, with how much she values hard work and loyalty, but I also really like her in Ravenclaw. I have no actual objections here – a couple I might sort elsewhere, but I think I can understand where you’re coming from with all your choices.
Mary’d probably be a Slytherin or maybe an asshole Ravenclaw (since she values creativity).
I’m just done with this shit. Like, what do these fuckers need to do before people stop humanizing them over their victims literally cowering in fear before their onslaught of abuse?
it’s weird b/c like i feel like humanizing them is sort of a self-protective measure – if they’re not that bad then you were never in that much danger, it’s fine, you’re fine, there’s nothing to worry about. which is – denial – which is – unfair to the victims. but like attuning yourself to that empathy is super important to survive that kind of abuse, i think, which is why base reaction seems to be to side with the abuser so you don’t become the next target: which is obviously not true in all cases, but does take a concentrated effort to unpack and manage.
Ok, I laughed at the end. That was really funny despite the awfulness from Clint. Damn guy’s got issues.
And go Billie! Though given Ruth’s destroyed her before, and this is essentially the father of where Ruth’s mean tough streak comes from, well… it was nice knowing you Billie.
Well Clint, given that Ruth’s mom left you, and kept her kids as far away from your influence as possible until her untimely death, I’d say that Ruth has much more of her mother in her than you give her credit for. Also, something to consider; no matter how much you hate the late Mr. Lessnick, no matter how bad you make him seem, he’s the one your daughter chose. Life with him was always going to be better to her than any life that included you in any way shape or form. And from what little we know, it seems that despite his issues, Ruth’s dad was something you never where and never could be: a good father. So that son-in-law that you despise so much? He was better than you. No matter how low you may think he was, you’re lower. You’re nothing but a man who’s own family rejected him. An old, angry man, most likely in the last years of his life who will die alone, unloved, and unmourned. A man so horrid, no one will ever miss.
it doesnt matter if he thinks she took it for granted. he made her feel like shit for existing, for being her parents’ daughter.
i’ve lost count of how many times i used to humanize my own dad because he has depression from losing a job, his sister and his granddad. i used to think it was my fault, that because i was born, that my mom wasn’t able to divorce my dad and escape from him. voices in my head used to bombard me with guilt trips about how i’m ungrateful when i tried to regain control with stopping my dad from abusing my mom.
you say “abuse is never right”, but my voices are so similar to what you just said. my voices humanized my dad, made me empathise with his feelings, and therefore blocked me from interfering, from saving my mom.
Also, she did the exact opposite of taking it for granted – she didn’t expect him to do it at all. Ruth was confident she was getting fired. She did not want or expect any support. “Taking for granted” is the exact opposite of that.
I was waiting for this. From the first panel he actually appeared in I said that if this was his “Nice” act then I was deeply afraid of what he’d be like when he had her alone. (and by the by anyone who was pretending there weren’t any red flags in that strip can fuck right off.)
I still wasn’t prepared for how awful he is here. He is vicious and I am so Relieved that Billy is here to intervene.
“Watching a character suffer” yeah she only started suffering today. Its not like she was clearly afraid the whole way through. Also wow you only saw foreshadowing in that comic? I saw foreshadowing in the Scene were his phone call showed her reacting with fear to a phone call from him and then bing drinking afterwords. Funny how you criticize others way of reading the comic but have zero reading comprehension yourself.
And I’m so sorry people reacted emotionally to the way the comic is written. Because he’s clearly presented as threat and an abuser from the first panel he appears in. I’m sorry that you couldn’t pick up on that but that’s hardly OUR fault. Maybe if you don’t want to see others responses to the comic you shouldn’t read a comments section.
… I’m sorry if I’m a little… off tonight. Last night my fiancee was put under a 5150 and I didn’t even find out what happened until tonight nor even if they were alive and well until this afternoon. It’s been a really really raw day for me and I’ve kind of cried my eyes sore.
Panels 1-2: Fuck. Like, the dead blacknessof Ruth’s eyes, her stunned silence, her grabbing her wrists violently like that, restraining her, tipping her back to the point where she’s ready to fall without his intervention, but still trying to pull back from the center of his rage. That frown burying deep into her face as she passively absobs his free-flowing hate.
That is a place I have been. Silent so as not to set off worse from the person spewing forth a volcano of hate. And fuck, where he goes? It’s right for the fucking jugular. We know that Ruth’s parents are like the sorest position she has, so of course now that she’s disappointed him by being a human who responds humanly to his constant unending abuse, he goes in for the kill on that, shit-talking her father, saying there is no real connection to her mother.
Pissing on their memories all to make a 19-year old? 20-year-old shrink in fear? It’s petty heartless abuse, intended simply to wound for the sake of wounding.
Panel 3: I’m going to lay this out here and this is pure speculation, but I absolutely think he abused his daughter just as much as he’s abusing his granddaughter and that’s why she and Ruth’s dad lived in Canada a fair distance away from him.
And the reason I think this is because of the violent hatred of Ruth’s mom’s choice and how we’ve seen him react in rage to anytime he nearly doesn’t get his way.
And also because of the violent hatred of the dad. Abusers loathe folks who help get their victims away from them. Especially if they are better than them. Listen to an abusive ex-husband and it’s only a matter of time before they start whining about what a “weak pussy” the new man is and how choosing him was the worst choice of their former partner’s life.
And also because of what he loathes in Ruth. What is his proof that she’s only got her dad in her? She tried to push back against him and didn’t just go “yes, sir” “no,sir”. She tried to speak up for her own agency.
And yeah, again, twisting the knife in on her family, specifically referencing their deaths, slamming her dad for “mental health” which… given Ruth’s mental health stuff is depression and that’s seen as a fair comparison, I’m going to guess that is something her dad struggled with as well, claiming her parent’s marriage was a mistake.
This is revenge. This is making her pay the price for daring to embarrass him by nearly dying and ruining his nice clean plan for her.
And… this type of rant, it’s one I remember well over the phone. The ones where you are expected to sit and absorb, lest you be “the problem child” while they jab and stab at every vulnerability you were ever foolish enough to let them know about. My uncle had a lot of calls like this after I blocked my dad’s number and so my dad started working hard on him.
Just streams of hate until one day I screamed myself hoarse back at him. I was then the “ungrateful shitty kid”, but it at least bought me a solid month of no more hate calls.
They’re… alive. But they’ve got a lot of bruising and marks and they’re pretty shaken up. But the important part is they’re alive and that’s what matters most right now.
I hope your fiance is gonna be okay. And also that your dad has recurring, vivid nightmares where is butthole grows teeth and slowly devours the rest of his body.
I had to look up what a 5150 is, but uh, hopefully your fiancee is doing okay? And that things are as okay on your end as possible as well.
I don’t really want to assume anything about the situation or whether there was actual cause or not, since I don’t know any of the factors, but I know what its like to be in a situation where basically crying till you feel like you can’t anymore is the end result. So even if the specific circumstances are different, I can’t help but wish that other people didn’t have times in their lives like that.
*appropriate gesture of support, or at least comfort*
I think things are mostly stabilized for them, but I’m really raw and drained and not looking forward to going back to my hellpit of a workplace tomorrow as I’m not going to have enough of a filter to hide my emotions.
Oh my god sweetheart! I’m so sorry. My god. They didn’t even let you know they were okay!?! I’m just so sorry. How are you? How are they (if it’s okay for me to ask)? *gives all the hugs*
They were on lockdown, no phone, until tonight. And their family doesn’t know my number (really need to fix that for the future). So I spent most of today worrying, fucking up with most of my social interactions, crying, and worrying some more.
But they were the one with the rougher experience and I’m just really glad they are alive and out.
I’m glad too. And I’m glad that they have a fiancé who loves them, cares about them, and doesn’t react like an ass when they have psychological issues that overpower them. I’m also glad that their family is implied to be accepting at least I hope I’m reading it right. After exchanging phone numbers, would it be possible for you to be put on as one of their emergency contacts? Maybe then at least if and when it happens again you might can find out if they are at least alive. And please take care of yourself as well and try to find a way to decompress alright? I know how bad stress can be on mental health. 🙁
*All the hugs to you and your fiancee*. I hope everything will be all right
And yeah, it didn’t take long for Clint to go full on abusive rant. How DARE Ruth have mental problems like this? How DARE she be depressed after her parents died? How DARE she don’t do exactly as he like in any way?
Had to look up what a 5150 is, and then realised I’ve lived it before, without being aware of that designation. Based on what details you’ve mentioned, I’m hoping your fiancee’s doesn’t stem from the same circumstances, and that they’re okay sooner than later. Also, sympathy to you, since I know it’s not easy to be on the other side of that.
Oh no, I hope they’re going to be okay. We’re here if you need to vent and I believe I have my messages on on Patreon if you need to talk.
I’m glad they’re hopefully stable. Here’s hoping for a swift and relatively painless recovery. Is there any chance you can call in ill? Or claim a family emergency?
*hugs you real tight* I hope your fiancee is ok and you guys can get through this. Sending you all my love, from this side of the pond to yours. Stay strong <3
You’re one of the kindest, most generous, and most dedicated people I’ve come across online, to say nothing of the enormous empathy that informs all of your comments here. I can’t even imagine how remarkable someone you’d choose to spend your life with would also be, ‘cos imagination just *fails* at that.
All the love to the both of you, from just another random noisy internet stranger.
Oh god, that’s horrible for both of you to have to experience!! *hugs*
Also, here’s an old curse for your…father if that’s what you can even call the man anymore that my old grandfather was fond of, “By Mary, Joseph, and all the saints may maggots fester in his flesh, may the air he breathes be as ash, may the fair-folk dance upon his grave, and may his soul drown in the devil’s piss in a ring of fire!” Honestly, after everything your father’s put you through, he deserves worse. Same with Clint. If Dante was right about hell, then I’m pretty sure this counts as “traitors to kin” and is a one way ticket to Caina. Which, oddly enough, is probably the only reason I’m still Catholic. Because I need for there to be a place where the truly evil are punished, because so often they aren’t in this life. Sorry…that got a little personal. It’s just, you’re a great person, and the thought of something happening to you or your fiancé is deeply upsetting. You’ve gone through so much, and you deserve a chance to be happy, a chance to be unafraid. I’ve been told I empathize and sympathize to easily with people, but if that’s true I’ll take that any day of the week. I just, hope you and your fiancé end up ok.
…
On a slightly more upbeat note, if you ever decide to have kids, I think you’d make an awesome parent if that helps at all.
All the hugs and wishes for peace and comfort to you and your fiance. That is such a hard situation.
A little less than a year ago now, my fiance was in a similar situation, when I had to call emergency services during a …. particularly bad night. The hospital would not tell me anything, would not let me talk to them. They were transferred elsewhere and I wasn’t even told where. It happened Saturday night and it was… I think Tuesday before I got to talk to them and even find out where they were. I was a mess thinking they might be gone forever and I would just never find out where they’d gone or what happened to them.
It was that trip and the care that followed that led to my fiance realizing she is trans. She hopefully will get to start HRT within a month or two. It has been a very up and down sort of year and her depression and anxiety certainly haven’t gone anywhere, but there is a light now where before was just a never-ending tunnel.
I hope your fiance can find some peace, and some help. This will be a horrible painful time but I hope something good can come of it.
In the meantime, again, all the love to you and them. <3
There’s something especially insidious about the panel 3 line about only Ruth’s father achieving immortality through her, not her mother. The insinuation that nothing of Ruth’s mother, or at least nothing good of Ruth’s mother, survives in Ruth, invalidating the connection between them, cutting Ruth off from even the MEMORY of her mother.
Billie, as much as this guy DESERVES to have the crap beat out of him, and as much as Ruth is no doubt going to benefit from having you stand up for her, an A&B is not a win. I mean, this was dumb even before you wimped out.
The way he’s treating Ruth right now is completely horrible. If you don’t see that, for ghod’s sake get professional help before you ever interact with any children. Even if he honestly thinks he’s doing it for her own good or whatever, that’s just another kind of completely horrible.
When he was in Chloe’s office earlier? He was looking forward to this. When he was talking with Ruth on the phone? More of this. Completely horrible.
“Disappointed” is ABSOLUTELY NOT a justification, reason, or excuse for EVER treating anyone this way. People who are not completely horrible do not act like this toward people they are disappointed in. Not even remotely close.
Okay, there’s the obvious that need to be sorted out quick. There’s the treatment of a suicide-based 5150 that nearly cost Ruth’s life as “throwing away” his investment in her. There’s the fact that he’s using the things he’s forced upon her against her will and choice as proof of his largesse and thus stuff she owes him in return.
But the part I want to eviscerate is the “I have given you a home” bit. Cause this is the entry point a lot of abusers love to use against their kids to try and engender an unearned sense in the kid that the kid owes some measure of fealty for an action that was not at all done out of kindness.
Of course he provided a home. Ruth was a minor and he was the legal guardian. He was legally obligated to provide a home or be written up on neglect/abandonment charges. Something you do to stay out of jail is not a debt that someone needs to pay back. Especially when they had no choice in the matter.
Like, fuck, given the endless abuse he has thrown at Ruth and how much she’s wanted to die, you think she wouldn’t have taken nearly anybody else if she had had a choice in the matter?
And that’s the real purpose of it all. Create the illusion of debt, thus justifying the control. Make it seem like you need to make it up to the abuser so you try harder and harder to make up something you can never actually pay off. And as such, almost every abusive parent pulls this stunt at one time or another.
My ex’s abusive mom would always hard sell “all the sacrifices she made raising her” to browbeat her for submitting to another session of emotional abuse. My dad hard sold this shit when he tried to bully me into reparative therapy. My friend’s dad sold this shit even though the “home” he “provided” got taking away three times because he kept cooking meth in it.
And it’s why any time I hear that line, I pretty much know instantly that the person saying it is a vile piece of shit. Not that I needed any extra proof.
Panels 5-6: Oh bless you Billie, you kind hearted alpha bongo. You fight for your girlfriend and confront that abusive piece of shit. Sure it’s small, but it got him to stop his hate rant and focus on her instead and we see how much that matters in Ruth’s face.
The loss of the frown, the return of at least a more neutral face. Like Ruth wanted to protect her from this man, but so does Billie and I strongly suspect this is the first time anyone has fought back against “sir” on her behalf. The first time anyone has seen her as worth fighting back for.
And that’s going to make a lot of difference for Ruth and gives me hope that when “sir” retreats to his toxic waste pit, Ruth will be able to pick up her recovery, albeit in a more raw and shaky position than where she left off.
I’ve critiqued a lot about these two in the past, but right now, I unreservedly love these two and their frequently co-dependent love.
Working harder to try and be anything but a disappointment to him is probably an easy thing to claim he wants without looking like a monster to most people, well when he chooses to couch it in terms that make it look like he’s trying to “protect her future” and “keep her on track”…though I guess the real kicker is its pretty clear that there’s actually nothing that’d ever clear that “disappointment” to begin with.
Really hoping this doesn’t come down too hard in some way on Billie, though while its maybe something that is a “bad decision” logically, this might be one of the few steps so far of their love changing into a less co-dependent one. This looks a lot more like standing up for someone no matter the cost because she (as one of the only people who seems to) actually cares about Ruth, instead of just clinging to her as the only hope for something meaningful.
… with my folks, the “I gave you a home” line was either, “If you don’t like it, you” – a child too young to sign a lease or even work – “can find somewhere else to live,” or “my way or the highway,” or “As long as you live under my roof, you do what I say,” or “I give you a roof, and food, and pay for your schooling. The least you can do in return is ____.” or etc. But boy, do I ever see shades of my parents in that line.
Note: I live in Canada, where being outside at night in winter for more than 10 minutes is potentially life- and limb-threatening, even if you have the right kit. Which I didn’t because I was a child. And they were threatening to kick me out with the clothes on my back, often in winter.
But yeah, abusive parents and parent-figures love to remind the kid that they’d be homeless without their parent. Never mind that it’s not the kid’s choice where to live or to even have been born. Gotta put the kid in a sense of perpetual debt owed. Make them feel like a burden.
My parents were a bit upset with me when I took my current position instead of continuing with grad school – because my current position pays enough that I not only don’t absolutely need their help (the way it was in undergrad school – I didn’t qualify for student loans because of my parents’ income, so if they didn’t help, I was SOL in terms of getting schooling), but there’s not even really a way for their help to make things significantly easier on me (like they did in grad school – their help meant I only had to work one extra job outside of the two I had through the school instead of two, and it meant that when the uni fucked up my pay schedule, I could still eat). I can easily pay all my needs and have money left over for some of my wants now.
Which means that my parents don’t have the ability to hold my food and shelter security over my head to control me, and they can’t stand it. Especially since the time they started in on me, and I replied with, “I don’t have to put up with this. Drop it, and if you don’t, I’ll leave.” And they continued, so I left. The time before that, my mother tried to sabotage my scheduled departure by “accidentally” parking me in so I couldn’t leave and then “losing” her keys so she had to wait until my father came home with his keys, by which time she was making noise about how it “can’t be helped” and it’s “too late” for me to leave so I should just stay another night – but I had work the next day, so it was, “I’d love to, but I can’t miss work tomorrow. See you next time.”
Because I am no longer dependent on them, they can no longer force me to accept being treated like shit or being guilted for existing.
I think the fact that Ruth was starting to move in a direction where she would not be dependent on “Sir” is what really had him pissed off. He wants her as a docile perma-child because he sees her as a prop to make him look good, and not as a person with her own thoughts and emotions.
CN: Physical & emotional abuse and abuse enabling – for pretty much this entire post. Just FYI.
… also that blocking reminds me of the time I tried to leave at 15… dad had my hands by my wrists and was threatening to kill me over something. I think one of the younger kids had been playing with a stapler and fucked up some of his paperwork and I got blamed because I was the scapegoat, and I was refusing to accept blame because I didn’t fucking do it and I am a stubborn bastard and will refuse to admit to shit I didn’t do on principle. Anyway, he threatened to kill me and put his hand through the wall next to my head and something snapped inside and I told him if he wanted to kill me he’d better make good on the threat because if he touched me again and I wasn’t dead, my next step would be the police station if I had to drag myself there, and I’d put him in jail and I didn’t give a fuck whether he was my father or not… standing up to him shocked him a bit so his grip loosened, so I pushed him away and ran straight for the door. Mother tried to stop me and I told her I didn’t feel safe cohabitating with who’d just threatened to beat me to death, and I wouldn’t be back. Gave them both a two-fingered salute and spent the night under the pier.
Next morning my mother found me and talked me into returning. I had been planning on hitch-hiking to Ontario to find a relative who’d figured out what was going on and offered an open door a few months back. I still kind of wish I’d left town before my mother found me and got me feeling like I was the asshole for not just admitting to something I didn’t do because Dad was “stressed” and somehow that excused yanking me down a flight of stairs by my wrists – which he was grabbing hard enough to bruise – and threatening to beat me to death.
But my parents totes weren’t abusive, y’all. And my mother totally would’ve driven me to the police station herself if Dad ever was really abusive. They say it so fucking often it has to be true, right? */sarcasm*
Generally, the more a parent protests that what they do isn’t abusive, the more I suspect them of abuse. ACTUAL non-abusive parents don’t feel the need to talk up how they’d never abuse their kids, what they do is discipline and it’s different because it is shut up that’s why.
That’s…that’s horrible. I don’t know how to properly express my sorrow that you had to do that combined with the amount of rage I feel at your parents for doing that to you. I hope you’re in better place now though (it sounds like you are) and I hope the best for you.
Yeah. See also playing abuse olympics. “When I was a kid, my father hit me with a belt! That’s abuse. Have I ever hit you with a belt? Have I?! Then shut your pie hole and stop complaining. You don’t know what abuse is! You’ve got it easy.”
Kid!me had thought that being hit for the slightest transgression was normal until the time his hit caught me on the nose instead of the cheek when I was six and my nose bled and I started crying cuz getting hit straight on in the nose fucking hurts and he burst out with that rant, followed by the “your display of negative emotion is not a sign that you’re actually hurt by what I’m doing but rather a sign that you’re trying to manipulate me and it’s not working” rant as well, followed up with a hefty dose of “STOP CRYING OR I’LL GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO CRY ABOUT!” which was a favorite tactic and is a big part of why everyone around me thinks I’m “strong” because, with the exception of one person, the only time anyone has ever seen me cry was right after I found out a close friend of mine died in a car accident, and that’s because I wasn’t able to hold it together, took myself off to the bathroom and someone heard me and then after I explained, they insisted I go home and took it upon themselves to tell everyone at work (which, don’t get me wrong, appreciate the thought – but I could’ve done without everyone at work finding out that I actually cry sometimes. It’s a degree vulnerability I am only comfortable with showing to one person in my life, and nobody anywhere I have ever worked is that one person, and even to that one person, I often feel the need to apologize profusely, because I still have this sense of abject shame whenever I’m caught crying. Should also note that the strongest people I’ve ever met have been the folks with the bravery to show their vulnerability, rather than hide it away like I do in meatspace).
(Adult me maintains that hitting your child until they do what you want them to do out of a motivation to make the pain stop is abusive, regardless of what you use to inflict said pain, and that instilling terror in your child because fear is an easy motivator to employ on your kid is also abusive, regardless of how you instill said terror. Rule through pain and fear is not love and care, it’s tyranny and abuse.)
Those last two panels are what give me hope for Ruth and Billie’s relationship together. Yes it started out wrong. Yes it’s been dangerously co-dependent at times. But at the end of the day, they’re willing to fight for each other.
That’s what I was thinking, too. “I gave you everything! The bare minimum I was legally obligated to provide you to continue being your guardian! A full-time job you’re ill-suited for but obligated to perform in addition to your studies!”
Here’s how you tell someone is a bad parent and a bad person: they focus on how much *they’ve* given *you*, not the other way around. They expect a fecking medal for doing or giving things other people in their position would think of as standard or minimal. They think that the relationship between them and you is transactional: that because they did something for you, you owe *them* something, and for some reason they get to decide what that something is.
My parents loved spending time with me and doing things that brought me happiness. They relished the opportunity to provide me with clothes and food and a pretty bedspread, going hiking and forcing me to take piano lessons. They pushed me to get a college degree because they were concerned about *my* future, not *their* status. They would never have considered it in transactional terms, but if it were put to them that way, they would say they considered all of it “repaid” by the humbling joy that having a daughter brought them. There was never any doubt that we were on the same side and had each other’s backs.
THAT is what being a parent looks like. Good parents do not tell their kids what good parents they are and cite rudimentary living accommodations as evidence of this. Good parents do not view their children as an “investment”; they view them as a gift.
As someone else who feels like they actually have a “mostly” good home life and relationship with their parents, thank you for sharing your story.
It…helps to know that well, its not all just an abusive mess out there, and you’re right in that it doesn’t necessarily take someone who has lived through the “red flags” to be able to see things that stand out as being a bad parent, or at least a lot worse of ones we were LUCKY enough to end up with.
I mean, maybe its not always quite as clear how bad it is or how deep it goes, but even a person who ended up with good parents can see the bad and the dis-junction if they let themselves look closely enough.
I, too, was lucky enough to be sheltered and privileged as fuck while growing up. (Not so much the ‘wealth’ axis, except by comparison to most of the rest of the world/history, or ‘mental health’, but I acknowledge that in every other respect I pretty much won the lottery.) These stories are strange and often horrifying to me, but also important and valuable. So thank you all for having the courage to not only endure, but to share.
Seriously, everything in this whole thread is valid and important.
Like… For god’s sake. Children are ENTITLED to have a home. The fact that you provided it is NOT a gift, it is NOT a proof of how much you have sacrificed… It’s nothing. It is what you owe society, owe the child for bringing it into the world.
The fact that so many abusers use that language to take power away from their victims terrifies me, because, like… Why do we EVER see that as something other than the bare minimum?
These comments are really making me think about my messy, complicated relationship with my own parents. Mostly, LovelyMonster’s description of their own parents resonates, but I’ve also had my mother genuinely confused that her verbal abuse could be harmful because *her* father hit them with belts. And the abuse they threw at me when I was a teenager? They genuinely believed they could bully me out of depression, and had the full weight of several criminally-terrible medical professionals supporting that mistaken view. Now that I’m an adult, I can better understand why they were treating me so badly, know that it was totally wrong, acknowledge how severe the harm was for me, and make the voluntary decision to believe that they are on balance good people who I want in my life.
Taking a break from all the commentary on abuse to say that, yeah, I actually like Ruth and Billie together right now, too. Sometimes relationships that start unhealthy af can be the, like, only thing standing between someone’s health or misery. I’ve been there. It means a lot to have someone in your corner in those moments, and it can lead to a way, way healthier relationship dynamic.
I WAS thinking that this storyline was going to include a suicide attempt by Ruth.
Now… now I went from something like 60% confidence in that, to 20%. THANK YOU, Billie.
My current speculation is that Sir Clint is going to try to get verbally abusive on Billie (especially if he learns that she’s THAT Billie)… and Ruth’s going to pitch him into a wall.
Oh wow, half of what I was hoping would happen. Now if only we can hope the next strip involves Carla and a video camera. I know it sounds like I’m joking, but I’m really hoping this is just the one in a one two punch to this asshole.
Even Clint might think twice about trying anything if “the Ruttech Girl” gets involved. Though I think this is more a Ruth and Billie scene, even if it would help “redeem” Carla in Billie’s eyes maybe? Or that might just me being too into shows where “Teamups against Evil = New Friends”.
OMG YES PLEASE
GET SOME CONCRETE PROOF OF THIS VILE SHIT
AND THE BACKING OF A WELL-SUPPORTED RICH KID WHOSE PARENTS CAN THROW THEIR WEIGHT AROUND AS WELL AS OR BETTER THAN ASSHOLE GRANDPA CAN IF HE EVER MAKES SO MUCH AS A MOVE IN HER DIRECTION
YESSSSS
Now we know why Ruth’s parents had moved to Canada. He has been a hater for a looooong time.
I actually like Billie not really punching him out her. This lets her stay on the indubitable moral ground. And I hope to hell someone with a smartphone is filming.
I suspected that it was something like this: Clint has never been able to look at Ruth and not see his son-in-law. He’s shouting at him in this strip, I think.
I fully understand Billie’s problem here. What is the appropriate level of force to use against an elderly man whose physical strength may be deceptive?
This may be my red rage of compassion talking, but if I were in Billies shoes and someone were abusing somebody I loved that way? My answer would be “as much force as possible”.
I agree. And if the old geezer dies as a result, it’s 100% accurate to say that you were afraid for someone else’s life and used lethal force as a result. In this scenario, given Clint’s size, all out force that leaves you exhausted is the appropriate response.
I’m so glad I was right about Billie not leaving and waiting to punch Mr. Hughes at least a little bit. I thought it was maybe wishful thinking, but I was totally right, and I’m thrilled by that.
Also I agree with something someone said above: he never looks at Ruth and sees Ruth. He sees his son-in-law. Though that makes me wonder about why he isn’t worse to Howie, is there something about Ruth’s manner?
I’m… just so glad she was there. Maybe Ruth will feel humiliated in the moment, but ultimately, having had someone present there, having a witness… it matters a lot.
Well, I got the feeling that her look before wasn’t the dread of humiliation as much as trying to “protect” Billie in the same way she presumably has tried to protect Howie. So, you know, hopefully nothing happens that makes her blame herself and push Billie away.
I don’t think Sir Asshole Grandpa has anything he can pull on Billie. Her parents are also rich, she’s physically stronger than him, the worst he can do is out her, and that’s… kind of a train that has left the station at this point.
And here and now, we are going to see proof of that. Right in front of Ruth, to drive it home that her abuser is not omnipotent. Best thing.
I always thought “Sir” was going to turn out to be abusive, but what I don’t understand is the aggression against people who weren’t sure or hoped for something different. What’s going on there that I’m missing?
People who knew exactly what to look for had enough evidence they called it proof back from the phone call. Other people who had less experience had enough evidence the first panel with Clint. Others took two or three. The fact that no-one is here defending him anymore is evidence that nobody took more than four comics to realize.
I initially withheld judgment. I did not defend him. I did not say “he might be good”. I simply said I would not commit to him being evil until I had evidence I found conclusive. I got that yesterday, and I have been publicising my newfound conclusion since then.
Now that I have my proof, I am on your side. What I am guilty of is taking slightly longer than you to do so.
As a sorta bystander, who was kind of middling ground, the issue seemed more to be that the word choice of a lot of the people who fall into those later cases and were called out for it was often rather dismissive seeming.
Either dismissive in general, or specifically claiming that people with “experience” in such things were letting their pasts bias them against Clint because they “wanted” the character to be an abuser in order to justify their worldviews.
Which you know….rude? Retorting to someone that their personal traumas don’t allow them to express their opinion and then acting offended by them getting upset at that isn’t a good way to not make people mad at them.
A lot of the people who just said they weren’t sure or really hoped that things didn’t go downhill didn’t get aggressed at. Just those who really pushed the “See, everything is great, Clint is a nice guy and Ruth is obviously just overreacting cause this is the best thing possible for her” and the like the whole way through, while ignoring all reasons why it might not be perfect and anything else that might be wrong with the situation.
Exactly this. To the point where there was one commenter saying they had to be the “voice of reason” because apparently abused people are incapable of being unbiased in the face of obvious abuse?
Precisely this. All those comments are an exact mirror of what happens in the real world, except in the real world the commenters aren’t shown the abuse a couple of strips later. They don’t believe, the victim goes home with the abuser and the abuse continues.
Huh. I remember Amber’s dad and how she or rather Amazi-Girl ‘solved’ that problem, largely by violence. That won’t work this time around. Would Amazi-Girl beat this guy up? This is gonna be complicated. I mean, I hope not, but it promises to be.
Also, him getting to close to Ruth and just unloading his anger at her is so uncomfortable to read, I really hope it gets better (before it gets even more worse). 🙁
Kinda flashing back to Preacher, and Jesse throwing Odin Quincannon through a window right now.
BODYGUARD: You son of a bongo! He’s seventy years old!
JESSE: That’s OK. I hit young fucks, too. (punches bodyguard)
I’m going completely from memory here, so forgive any deviations from the original text. The point is, a senior citizen is in great need of defenestration.
Seriously. Why is she just shutting up? This is a woman who when sick from alchohol withdrawal suplexed a grown man, threatened her charges with murder casually and who has otherwise been shown to be very ornery and combative.
That’s not how being abused works. You don’t just suddenly turn into a different person when your abuser walks into the room. I know from personal experience that children and teenagers with abusive families are combative with their parents very often, if not almost all the time (which unfortunately also works on the abuser’s favor, as now they have the excuse of “Im disciplining you for your rude behavior”, which creates a whole lot of anger management issues down the road). If anything, being in an abusive household should make you more likely to be violent and aggressive in interpersonal confrontations. The way Ruth is written i expected more of an Amber-style violent outburst than a mental BSOD
Because Clint is her parental figure and it is a very real human instinct to seek love and acceptance from parental figures. That means, no matter how hurt, frightened or angry Ruth is, when dealing with Clint, there will always be the desperate part of her seeking his approval and love, no matter how objectively impossible that should be.
Its not much different than she was over the phone either, just more intensely so.
Some of it could still be shock at him bursting into her life….
Though another thing, I’m pretty sure she’s mainly threatened those she’s felt like she has authority over, instead of one of the few people who has presumably trained her to believe she’s under his authority.
Actually I see a lot of myself in Ruth, and how she’s acting here. I learned early on that my punishments weren’t as bad if I just shut down. It sadly made me a very unstable and violent person for a long time. Now that I’m out of the house and my mother can no longer punish me, I finally fight back. But fighting back used to mean my life was f%$2# for the next 6 months.
I would become like a different person when my abusive parent / relatives were around. I would shut down and retreat inside myself, or try to appease them, even back when I was a child and took my pain and anger out on other people (who I wasnt afraid would kill me). Please do not assume that your own experience is the only one, and please do not speak for other people. THANKS.
And I definitely feel Ruth here because my trauma response is also freeze.
And I definitely have had diff experiences than op, because most abused folks I know have a voice and a mask they put on when surviving their abuser. It can be really eerie if you’re not expecting it.
“That’s not how being abused works.” Are you serious? Given you have experience with the topic I would think you would know it most certainly can be how abuse fucking works.
My parents taught me well enough to stand up to the man that I would often still yell “fuck you!” at them in between sheltering myself from being attacked, but they were both 100% capable of making sure to use words to break you eventually, and now I absolutely fucking shut down whenever anyone’s angry at me. If they’re aggressive enough I can give it back, but if it’s a situation where explosive anger is inappropriate I just completely shut down. And guess what? I’m no shrinking wallflower.
You know what makes me incredibly angry? That my brain/body responds like that. So you know what else makes me angry? Statements like “that’s not how abuse works.” Can you not?
Seconded. Abuse works a lot of different ways for a lot of different people.
Which you should know if you actually have any experience in this field? I mean, shutting down is really fucking common and I don’t see any reason why you would think it isn’t.
I have the temper of a Red Lantern and my response to a onslaught of verbal abuse from my abuser is absolutely to freeze up entirely, so maybe don’t make blanket statements about abuse like that?
…that was very much how being abused worked for me, thanks. Turns out people all react differently to years of parental (figure) abuse, who’d’a thunk it!
Wispy, I respectfully disagree. Ruth’s reactions are consistent with this sort of abuse. Clint almost certainly has regularly abused Ruth for many years. Clint is her alpha. Due to the repeated abuse and, probably, repeated failed attempts to stop him when she was younger, she believes there is no way to fight back against him without losing. It is better to shut up, shut down and take it than do anything that would make it worse.
As RA, she is the alpha among the students. She mimics the alpha behavior she has learned. It is conceivable that she is not consciously aware of the extent to which she is mimicking Clint’s behavior.
Everyone responds to abuse differently. For instance as a teenager I was like Ruth is normally with my peers, antagonistic and combative with my emotionally abusive mother, but put me in front of a male who was angry and I shut down and became submissive and placating because my father not only screamed at me for literally hours at time and was otherwise verbally abusive, he also regularly beat me, tortured me, molested me, and passed me around to his fundamentally religious friends from church to rape and molest from the time I was 3, so yes this is exactly how being abused can and does often work!
*accepted and appreciated* Me too, it’s why I felt the need to respond because the kind of statement wispy made is what I heard so many members of our church, which I now know is really a cult, say when I told. “Oh that’s not bad”, “that’s not how that works, a good child submits”, “you should be glad your father loves you.” I’ve also heard time and again why my responses, freezing or flying into a rage depending, meant I was just a bad kid. It’s also the reason I’ve spent thousands of dollars on therapy so I can be a good parent to my daughter.
Well, shit. You mean all this time, I’ve been reacting to abuse WRONG? Come to think of it, I didn’t get the “How to React to Abuse From Your Parents” handbook when I was a kid. That’s probably why I’ve been doing it so wrong all this time. Silly me.
You so seem to know about this, though — where can I pick up a copy of that handbook? So I can react to abuse in the way that you seem is “right”?
Power dynamics brah. We react differently to people in power. Ruth was in power and didn’t want to be, and here she has a clear disadvantage. A good example of this situation is my own. My parents are pretty abusive to me, but only when I live under their roof. Once I left, our relationship immediately became civil. Why? Because they were no longer trying to control me and I was no longer suffocating whenever they had a request.
This is true for anything from abusive to non abusive people. We act differently to our peers, our superiors, and those we rule over. And even if we don’t, our actions will come across differently to each group.
What is Ruth’s major again? My advice to Ruth is to major in something that will lead to financial independence and get as far away from sir as possible.
Depends what she wants to do. Any job with strong writing skills needed could benefit. Also there’s editing, teaching (both in English speaking countries and abroad), journalism, publishing, advertising, public relations, business, grad school, etc.
English degree doesn’t have to mean starving writer.
Frankly, she’s better off than if she’s in tech, because that bubble’s about to pop and saturate that market with programmers and other techie types. Comp sci and the like is a mug’s degree these days, and this is speaking as someone with a brother taking it – I worry for that kid, I really do.
FWIW, Clint is an ex-soldier. Violence against him, no matter how cathartic it might be, won’t in any way affect what he thinks is ‘right’. I’m hoping that Ruth suddenly brushes him off, tells him that she doesn’t want his help or his money and tell him that, if she disgusts him so much with how much she reminds him of his son-in-law, he should never have contact with her again; she’s okay with that.
But then there’s Howard, who Ruth is trying to protect. Clint still has custody of him, and such an action would likely not be good for Clint’s treatment of him.
The problem with your train of thought is that it puts primacy in changing Clint’s beliefs, instead of where it should be, which is protecting Ruth. Violence him away, all the way, Billie.
Y’know, guys, I think you’re all being far to hard on Clint. We still haven’t REALLY seen him do anything abusive yet, so let’s just wait out another day and see what happens next before we call him an absolute cumstain who shames himself, his family, and actively pisses on any symbolic good there was to his being a serviceman by showing- and EXPRESSING- clear disdain for not only his granddaughter, but his late son-in-law (for reasons neither could control and that are rooted in a frankly creepy favouritism of his beloved-and-also-late progeny), yeah?
Yeah, I was 100% joking/deliberately taking the piss out of the folk continuing to defend Clint well after it was straight up Text that he’s a wretched geezer.
I like to hope that by this page, nobody could still seriously, unironically believe otherwise. But, well, I’ve been wrong
By the way, I will post a real comment later, but I wanted to say thanks for the support yesterday. I kinda needed that. I am okay. I do have a good support system now. It took me a long time and a lot of work to understand my parents and the bullshit that surrounds my family. I’ve long since lost them both and made peace with it and made peace with what I am learning as I go.
*Internet Hugs for all who want them*
What Bagge said upstream: Billie was just perfect here. She’s quite capable of cleaning Clint’s clock, but this approach is much more likely to set him back on his heels. If he tries to pull something now he’s going to look ridiculous, and he’d hate that.
Also, is everybody done “giving him a chance” yet?
I keep seeing comments wondering why people who defend Clint get negative feedback; this is why. Abusers work hard to look reasonable in public, so when the abused person finally speaks up, the whole world gaslights them. (Some personal experience here, except I never spoke up. I didn’t know I could, and thought the problem was all with me.)
He’s an abusive, bullying piece of shit, but unlike Blaine and Toedad I’m hoping for a redemption arc, if only because as hard as he tried my dad, who was a fucking ape, never quite finished his.
I suspect there’s a lot of guilt, grief and resentment going on here.
If it’s the same one I’m thinking of, they were being annoyingly flippant in the comments the next day, and then they mysteriously stopped posting and allllllll their comments disappeared.
Well it’s safe to say Clint is terrible which is kind of disappointing since I had hoped he might just be a hard man who’s trying to do his best with grandchildren. Someone complicated instead of another Blaine or Ross.
Abuse comes in all shapes and sizes! There’s the masculinized bigotry of Ross, the controlling and possessive entitlement of Blaine, oooor there’s this guy with his guilt-laden railroading projection. The other two are more immediately dangerous, but Clint can sustain the act. Blaine flips the second someone goes against him, because in his world that’s simply not allowed. Clint knows how to keep it all hidden until he’s got his victim alone. Ross hides nothing; the things that make Ross abusive are just part of who he is.
Abuse is complicated. If you’re looking for a hard man trying to do right by his kids, then we have had that — and it was Ross. Arguably Clint still falls into that category. Your opinion of what “right” is and what means that goal justifies are where the line falls between abuse and normal parenting.
Or the Walkertons with their emotional abuse and neglect, coupled with preferential whiteness, the Billingsworth’s seemingly just dropping out of Billie’s life, the religious based self hatred that the Browns instilled in Joyce (though Hank is getting better), the Wilcoxen’s constant put downs and verbal abuse masked as jokes and preferring others to their son, and I’m sure we’ll see at least one more bad set of parents from somewhere – whether that be Joe, Roz, Marcie, or Sarah.
Ruth’s Mom ran away from his control, and defied him by marrying her Dad. Now, he sees Ruth as a replacement daughter. He’s pushing to make sure she doesn’t become what he considers to be a “failure” like her father (and in many ways her mother), and he’s piling his anger on her in what may be vain effort to redirect his guilt. Deep down he may realize that his daughter left because of his actions. Billie may be the savior here. If he directs his anger at her, Ruth may snap and go after him. She may not be able to speak up and protect herself, but the need to protect Billie may bring all of her anger and resentment to the surface. If that happens, Clint could find himself back in a war zone.
An attack on Billie may blind her to any consequences. Howard may live in a kind of “state of grace” where Clint is concerned. He sees Ruth as a continuation of his failure where his daughter’s concerned, but he may have written off Howard completely and see him as simply a financial obligation. If Howard physically resembles his hated son-in-law, he’ll do what’s required, but he won’t bother himself with any details. Even physically or emotionally abusing Howard would require more effort than he wants to expend on someone on someone he sees as a “weak, unfaithful collection of mental problems”. As I type this, the word “unfaithful” stands out. There may be an entire context hidden in that one word.
As another speculation on how Clint treats Howard vs. how he treats Ruth, recall that Howard didn’t think moving to the US was such a big deal. Ruth attributes that to his age, but maybe another aspect of it is that Howard gets less abuse. For now, anyway.
Ruth seemed worried their grandfather treated him badly. She said she hoped her dying would make him be nicer to Howie. Whether she meant ‘in comparison to how he treated me’ or ‘in comparison to the past’ is unclear.
I do get the impression that he doesn’t abuse Howard or it somehow doesnt bother him/doesnt realize it’s abuse.
another theory swimming through my head is the age thing. It could be her grandfather only started this abuse after she reached a certain age? Maybe in his eyes since she is legally an adult he can get away with more to her than with Howard who is still a minor.
Also I’m reminded of Faz a little? The situation is a bit different sure but Faz seemed to be completely fine in Blaine’s company, having actually accompanied him to the college. Likely meaning like Blaine this guy treats his grandson better thand his grandaughter.
Re: the various abuse histories being told in the comments
Why are people such assholes? That’s not a rhetorical question, can someone please help me understand why people are so shitty to other people, especially their children.
Because there is one thing that history tells us is this: Humans are essentially pretty aggressive and nasty creatures in social terms. There is a significant and large minority in most populations that have to be threatened pretty thoroughly with unavoidable and nasty consequences in order to coerce them to treat those weaker than themselves with compassion rather than just tear them to pieces so there are then more resources available for themselves.
A lot of times, it gets perpetuated from one generation to the next. Maybe it goes back all the way to our apish forefathers. We all carry that baggage, to one degree or another.
Because we broke evolution. No, really, that’s it. See, way back when, when people were fuckwits, they got exiled and then either starved or got eaten by cave bears. And then at some point, exiling people became pretty much meaningless because there were no longer wild beasts to eat them, and those people became wealthy and influential, because life is a whole lot easier if you don’t mind running roughshod over everyone. And then at ANOTHER point, we started to actively select for shitstains (just see how many women said “I’d let Chris Brown hit me any day” after every one of his violent outbursts).
…I really don’t think people were nicer back when anyone who deviated from social norms was sent away to die horribly. I think if anything we’re actually probably nicer now, and we just still have a long way to go.
I think JBento meant more that we’ve always had a a good number of bad people, and nothing about that has changed, but now they are the ones more capable of rising to power as we’ve built a world where cooperation is less and less necessary and is even (by a not insignificant number of people) considered a hinderance.
Well, I don’t think that’s true either. You don’t get anything notable done in the modern world without some level of cooperation from people. And any history book will show you that ancient times are not exactly dominated by rulers much kinder and cooperative than the ones today.
People looking at evolutionary explanations for asshole behavior have tended the other way, supposing that it used to be helpful for survival to some percentage of them in case certain situations come up. That seems possible but much more speculation than science. In any case, though, their prominence is not some modern problem to do with our civilization shielding people from consequences of their actions.
For the record, chimpanzees are often extremely horrible to one another, the existence of predators and lack of industrial society notwithstanding.
As I understand it, it’s generally thought that much of our behavior has evolved for internal competition, not so much for group survival. Friendly cooperation is all well and good, but being in charge of a bunch of underlings is even better – get the lion’s share of resources, more mates, more offspring, genes get spread farther.
Maybe it’s because we have more people now, or because said people move about more freely, but there’s definitely a shifting of power. I’m not arguing that there are more assholes now than there were then (% wise, at least). I’m arguing that they suffer less consequences for their assholery, and therefore thrive (because, again, you can get farther if you don’t care about anyone else, assuming you can still get them to do what you want them to).
If Ugg, the greatest hunter of the clan, breaks the arm of Ikka, the herbalist of the clan, no-one’s going to stand for that, because you can’t replace Ikka and you REALLY need the person who knows which herbs stop you from bleeding and which make you shit yourself to death, while you can probably get by just fine with Thokk, who isn’t QUITE as good as Ugg but is still a pretty good hunter and doesn’t go around breaking people’s arms, so Ugg gets fed to the next cave bear you need to distract.
But if doctor Dudebro sexual assaults nurse Not-into-you-please-go-away, society in general doesn’t have to care, because you can just get another nurse. Sure, you can also just get another doctor, but waiting until the nurse quits and just getting another just has less work involved.
Cavefolk weren’t less assholish, they just couldn’t afford to asshole as much as modern people do, because they lived on the edge of horrible death (by cave bear, and more) to start with. Of course, this also mean that stuff that is shitty now wasn’t shitty then. When Republicans decide to not feed kids, they’re just evil. When the hunter-gatherer clan decide not to feed kids because everyone is barely getting by and they need to make sure the hunters have enough energy to be able to hunt, that’s just necessary.
Except Ugg. Ugg’s an asshole. And he got fed to a cave bear.
thejeff, good point, I am glossing over a lot of things.
JBento, needing people to live cuts both ways. Maybe the next Ugg turns out to be the herbalist of the clan, and so you have to look the other way when he repeatedly assaults Minga. Especially if she ends up married to him anyway. We actually have tribal societies to this day, and I get the sad impression that excusing such things is not any more unusual than it is for industrial businesses to do the same with their rockstars. There is a lot of debate about whether or not murder was more common in early societies.
Anyway, I will note again that chimpanzees also have to survive in harsh nature, and they go out to bite the genitals off other chimps on a fairly regular basis. Sorry, I just don’t by the argument that cavemen must have had to play nicer than people in towns and cities do now.
I’m pretty sure your fantasy version of caveman society doesn’t match anything seen either in our closest relatives or in the closest tribal analogues we’ve studied. There’s always internal power relations and incentives to control others.
Your argument is also easy to flip around – if an easily replaceable member harms a irreplaceabale one, he can’t get away with, but if an irreplaceabale one hurts an easily replaceable one, you can’t hurt him because you need him. Children are easily replaced.
What tribal societies do have that differs from modern society are a couple things. One, they’re small, so everyone knows every and tends to know everyone’s business. “It takes a village to raise a child” kind of thing. That puts a damper on some kinds of abuse. There’s much less privacy and opportunity to abuse without being detected.
Such societies also tend to be quite static and have developed complex rules for interaction and behavior over centuries. While these don’t keep people from competing for power, they usually limit the ways it can be abused. Our world is in constant flux with entire ways of life changing from generation to generation or even faster. We can’t work out good systems of rules before the situation changes again.
Unfortunately, when those rules themselves are abusive, there often needs to be a major status quo shift BEFORE they can be changed. That’s not just talking about caveman society, more a call to arms for the proletariat to rise up against the bourgeoisie.
(Seriously, though, I’ve never understood why Marx demonized the bourgeoisie when the true enemy is the aristocracy that controls them both and benefits from their infighting.)
They are, but there are MORE people for them to extract cooperation from – it doesn’t matter if they exploit one person to alienation, because there’s another couple of hundred lining up behind them to do the same job.
The simplistic answer is one word. War. Peaceful happy people get pulled, or pushed, into a dehumanizing situation. The peaceful happy people are dehumanized by the actions they have to take, and the people they take action against are dehumanized. After the conflict they return home and try to return to their old lives. Sadly, the person that returns isn’t the same one that left. The have seen atrocities, they may have committed atrocities against their will, and after a while those atrocities seem normal. They now have trouble relating to their loved ones that haven’t been through battle. they don’t know how to deal with their past, and they take it out on the ones around them. The anger and violence seeps out and infects their children. The children learn what they live and pass it on without knowing the peaceful happy lives they’re missing. In some, the anger steeps and grows exponentially and their misery is passed on greatly amplified. Things are slowly improving as we learn the need for counseling after traumatic events, but they’re moving far too slowly to stem the tide. If you’re suffering, get help. Be one more broom against the tide.
So he goes straight from “Come.” to “Your father…your wretched [etc.]”?
I feel like we missed a strip in between. Then again, maybe the abrupt mood swing was the point?
That’s how the bigtime family controllers do it. One second they are gladhanding the judge, then they turn the corner and get into your face so hard that they’re losing their english and a turning a new shade of purple. It’s a common yet horrifying sort of behavior
A crucial visual detail in the last few strips are Ruth’s eyebrows. They’ve been absent since her plea in the office (two strips back). But in that last panel they’re back; her eyes aren’t stuck in deer-in-headlights mode anymore. It’s a small victory for Billie, but a victory nonetheless.
Go back to the Freshman Family Weekend arc, there’s a few. Dina’s, Sierra’s, Dorothy’s, Mike’s. We haven’t met them yet, but the Ruttens sound pretty awesome sauce.
I think we need a sequence of family conflict between Mary and her parents, where the shocking reveal is they’re perfectly sweet and nice and are trying to do their best for her, but somehow have created this monster. 🙂
Of course, that’s sort of Mike’s family history too.
…..Fine, can they adopt Ruth, Sal, Danny, and Ethan? I’d throw in Billie but that’d make things awkward. The Walkertons aren’t shitty to her so they can keep her and Walky, for now, I guess.
I never understood how parents and grandparents could be so cruel to kids/grandkids like that. My own grandmother was that nasty to me. I eventually wound up disowning her to protect my mental health and she died a bitter, mean hated old woman.
Once, perhaps, I’d like to see plot points that aren’t telegraphed beforehand, or perhaps some that upend the commentariat’s zeitgeist. At some point, I don’t have to read Dumbing of Age—just Cerberus’s commentary—and I already know what will happen over the next 5 months.
Please do not strawman me. I am not commenting on the existence of abuse in the comic, or whether the abuse is handled appropriately or realistically. Your ‘boohoo’ is both unwarranted and rude.
I did comment about predictability. This is the third time in which “father figure appears in-comic and is directly (physically/verbally/emotionally) abusive”. Only Joyce’s father is shown not to be directly abusive, though that could be because he himself is abused by his domineering spouse.
Cerberus’s posts are insightful, and create a useful read-ahead. It would be an interesting study to find out how many posts were unexpected prognostications.
You can tell a lot about a man from the way they use — or misuse — the term “strawman”. What you’re complaining about is the fact that abusers show signs of being abusers, and that abused people show signs of being abused. What you seem to be asking for is a “shocking swerve”. A turn so drastic and unforeshadowed that it is unrealistic.
You might not know that’s what you’re asking for, but people who’ve never tried to write anything often don’t realize how critical foreshadowing is. And the fact that Cerberus — an abuse survivor — can pick out the different signs of abuse in the comic simply means that Willis — an abuse survivor — is good at creating realistic depictions of abuse.
If you think it was telegraphed too obviously then you might want to have a look at the comments for the last few strips, many of which were arguing in Clint’s favour or at least withholding judgement.
But then you’re using the phrase “commentariat’s zeitgeist” so I think your real problem is with Willis’s politics, not the actual strip.
You do Cerberus a disservice by implying their commentary is based only on the obvious.
You can read into my comments what you will. You are free to interpret my words in any way you wish.
But by “commentariat’s zeitgeist” I am actually referring to the deep critical analysis of each strip. It would be an interesting twist to see the commenters led to believe one thing, and then it turns out that the opposite is true.
I do not believe that Cerberus’s posts are based only on obviousness, but the analysis done by Cerberus does accurately represent the forward motion of the strip’s themes.
When you have a smart, crowd sourced analysis of a work on a day by day basis, you’re going to have throw something from completely out of the blue to fool all or most of them.
It’s not generally considered good writing to lead your readers to believe one thing and then have the opposite be true, without having planted sufficient clues beforehand to have them be able to look back and realize the evidence was there all along. Given the amount and quality of critical analysis this strip gets, all those clues are going to be hammered out ahead of time.
This is a very weird way to read fiction. Imagine reading a murder mystery one page a day and having a hour long discussion about that page with a hundred smart people. You’re going to spot all the plot twists.
Unless it’s a Sherlock Holmes story, in which case the critical clue for solving the mystery isn’t revealed until after Sherlock has already solved it.
Oh, they’re mystery stories, but they’re not Fair Play mysteries. That is to say, they’re stories about mysteries, but not ones that the reader is meant to be able to solve. ‘Clueless’ mysteries like the Sherlock Holmes stories are a totally valid form of mystery fiction.
It should be noted, though, that even a clueless mystery should make sense, once the missing clues have been given – contradictions should be explained (especially if the vital clue turns things on their heads), as should why certain details are irrelevant. The point isn’t ‘haha, I fooled you’ it’s ‘now that we have all the information, let me show you how all this fits together’.
I suppose we could get sudden revelations of abuse without any warnings? No previously established characterization or foreshadowing. I’m not sure that would be better.
I suspect it might read as more nuanced if we weren’t analyzing every day’s strip to death. 🙂 Just reading these in sequence without the delay, I think much of what we figure out wouldn’t be so obvious. Of course, there are always commenters who miss the “telegraphed” plot points and defend the villains long past the point of revelation.
I’m up for stuff that is unpredictable because it’s a new plot point, and this strip has that for time to time. Stuff that is unpredictable because it doesn’t ring to true from the characters – which is what it would take for someone like Cerberus, who very well understands how people act, not to call any of it – well, I don’t see why that’s a plus.
We’ve already seen all sorts of indications Ruth’s guardian is abusive, so there was no real nuance to expect. I guess you’re disappointed it wasn’t invented anyway, like if he somehow turned out less abusive despite what we already knew? If Clint turned out to be a mannequin, so that Ruth was only imagining their relationship, would that have been better?
There are many reasons why a person can be, themselves, violently abusive toward others (as Ruth -has been- let us not forget). The obvious reason is due to abuse in the home, following the “abused become abusers” analysis. On the other hand, there people who have not been abused in the home, but have other deep-seated emotional traumas that can manifest themselves in anger. We have, if I recall correctly, only one phone call and a mentally-breaking down narrator to go on before Clint’s actual appearance.
Part of me wanted to see Clint as a cold, emotionally detached man who provided no support over Ruth’s parents’ death. Not because he hated her, but because he was incapable of showing the kind of emotional depth necessary to help a child through an incredible trauma. Ruth resented him for it, and projected her anger and pain outward on others.
It would have been an interesting twist. I knew someone a long while ago with a story similar to that.
But this is not my comic, and Willis is more than capable of telling his own stories.
So a while back when Willis was showing Sal’s parents giving her shit about her hair, he said something to the effect of, “I’m not going to do a story about racism where it’s all just in the black woman’s head”. I think it’s safe to assume that the same is going to apply to any story of abuse as well.
To be fair,Cerberus use about 100x as many words as the comic AND an annotated reference section, so the comic would have to work hard to keep up.
As for you actual point – that wouldn’t add to my reading experience. This comic is most of all about people and the narrative stay true to their experience.
The abuse of Ruth is telegraphed because Ruth knows exactly what her grandfather is. She has not been forthcoming with details, but it has been a part of her behavior since day one. Astute observers, such as Billie and Cerberus, have picked up on it. Would the story be better if Billie hadn’t snuck in to Ruth’s closet and seen her receive that first, telling phone call from “Sir”? Not for me.
Becky is a master of hiding trauma behind her mask, and thus she successfully hid her father’s abuse from Joyce and us for several months. I didn’t see it it coming when she kissed Joyce, and judging from the comments few other people did it either.
As for Blaine… that kinda WAS sprung on us on family weekend. BOOM, abusive father in the room. Sure, it was known for readers of Shortpacked, but as far as I can recall he wasn’t even mentioned in Dumbing of Age until he showed up.
As for more subtly abusive parents I strongly suspect Danny’s and Ethan’s parents will have more horribleness in store for us.
So for me, this is a well told story about People and their Baggage. Ruth’s horrible grandfather is an integral part of her story. It is part of why she ran the floor like a tyrant, why she bullied – and courted – Billie, it is part of her mental problems and part of her crash. Of course it is telegraphed – it is part of a story we have followed for years.
Ethan, so what the comic has themes. It’s what the artist/author wants to talk about. If you don’t like it spend years developing your own characters and make your own comic.
But in particular you seem upset at “predictability” so maybe you’ve noticed human interactions are pretty damn predictable if you notice the signs they telegraph, far in advance.
What was wrong with the Keeners? I also bet Carla’s parents are pretty supportive. Joe’s dad is just a horn dog but there was no indication he is a bad dad.
There’s a few awesome parents and a few we haven’t met but have no evidence of toxicity and so can therefore offer a benefit of the doubt. Far more than confirmed bad ones.
Well, we haven’t seen much of him, but to put it like this: Joe’s father is pretty much the main source of Joe being Joe. All that toxic masculinity, all that thinking of women as nothing but sexual objects, the opinion that consent is a challenge to be overcome… Yeah, this is where all that comes from.
And there are other things too. I’m not sure where those strips were, but I believe that Joe’s hinted at how it was a really messy divorce (probably involving Joe’s dad cheating several times), and it seemed to be implied that the way his father treated his mother caused him to basically shut out all signs of emotional vulnerability. Seeing someone being deeply hurt and betrayed by someone else that they loved and trusted can be pretty crappy; and then in turn, you try to become someone who can’t possibly be hurt that way…
I do agree with that, but again, that strikes me more as him being a bad role model than actually mistreating Joe. And I admit, I was under the impression the divorce was nasty on both sides.
You can cause all kinds of damage to ppl, especially to kids, without ever being explicitly abusive to them. An absentee dad doesn’t do ANYTHING to the kid and is definitely a Bad Dad.
Setting Joe up with the full suite of Man!Issues Norton laid out is Being A Bad Father 101. Role Modeling is part of the job.
An absentee parent IS abusive though – that’s neglecting their responsibilities, point blank.
I can get where you guys are coming from, but we’re talking ‘bad’ in the sense of abusive or toxic relationships, not ‘terrible role models’ or being problematic, and we have no evidence Richard’s been abusive. Definitely a bad role model, but not a dad actually mistreating his son or with a bad relationship with him. He did a terrible job raising him with respect for women and out of toxic masculinity (which is sadly, not uncommon among parents of young men) but he is not an abusive parent, nor does he mistreat Joe, which is the metric I’m using here.
I kinda doubt Willis’s priority here is shocking plot twists. It’s a character-driven comic and people tend to be products of their own upbringing to some extent, so of course a lot of things are telegraphed. I think it’d be a rather different comic if they weren’t.
Also – stories where abuse is actually a misreading of the other person or the situation are a lot more common than actual ongoing stories about abuse.
Hmm… so, previously it was “Let’s give ‘Sir’ a chance. Maybe Ruth’s just batshit.” Now it’s “Willis’s shitty writing creates another abusive white dad ragebeast. What a surprise. *eyeroll*” Some folks were wondering where the apologism went; there you go.
So, we don’t know much about Ruth’s parents, other than that they’re dead. I gather it was similar in “It’s Walky!”? I dunno; never read it. But now we know that, as in that universe, her dad was “unfaithful,” although perhaps we’re dealing with an unreliable narrator in Demon Clint. At any rate, maybe it’s true that Ruth’s dad was kind of a jackass. If that turns out to be the case, why then would you suppose her mother–the abuser Clint’s beloved daughter–ended up falling for an asshole? I WONDER.
Of course this is just speculation, but it would make sense if the reason Clint liked her so much was she meekly acquiesced to his abusive bullshit, like a “good” little girl, but that same attitude that he drilled into her lead her to the arms of another shitty abuser. If that turns out to be true, I wonder if Clint has enough awareness that such a truth could be used against him? I don’t want Clint to get beaten to a pulp. He’s a soldier; he can deal with violence. I want him to face a Horrifying Truth he has refused to accept delivered with divine fury. I want to see him cry. Like, an ugly cry.
Actually I would settle for him just shutting the Hell up and going away forever.
… I keep getting to these comments late. Maybe I should become a morning person if I want to meaningfully contribute to discussion. Or just stay up past midnight. On a work night.
That does tend to be the cycle. Denial up until there’s no means to do so and then it’s all “ugh, how predictable”. It’s happened for pretty much every abusive character in the strip.
FWIW, which is probably nothing in this case, Ruth’s father was hooking up with Billie’s mother while both were still married to their respective spouses. Ruth walked in on them and found out; Ruth’s parents later split.
And yeah, that is an incredibly annoying and infuriating cycle of “oh that’s so predictable.” Maybe there’s a reason it keeps coming up in the backstories of very broken people!
I thought I’d said something about that but I guess not.
It’s also part of Walkyverse Ruth’s terribly-written (by Willis’s own feelings on the matter) backstory; I believe he said that DoA Ruth has an entirely different backstory.
Please tell me the old skidmark’s eye are brown. He’s got his head so far up his own butt that his eyes MUST be brown!
I am also suspecting that he is about to do something seriously stupid, to the point of being arrested! Personally, I kind of hope some other elderly geezer comes along and whoops the crap out that abusive SOB! From what he’s said, his body language, and how he’s grabbing Ruth, it’s kind of obvious what kind of schiess kofp her grandfather is!
Personally, I hope someone gives him enough of a smack down to wake him up to what he is doing!
Not being American I’m not sure how to take Billies last line. Is it sarcastic, is it something Americans are expected to say to service people or something else entirely?
We support veterans, just not… actually support veterans.
More symbolic support… that’s more about yelling at people who aren’t pro-war enough… while also demeaning actual veterans for suffering things like PTSD…
It’s not a standard line or anything. I think she’s flailing for a little about what to say in the wake of her maybe-punch. Wondering how much her choice of maybe-punch over punch was strategic, and how much was instinct.
I take it in a weirdly powerful way. Like, “Your service to your country is not negated by your awfulness to your family. Your awfulness to your family is, conversely, not negated by your service to your country.” She is telling the truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth, so help her Willis.
well i mean, if this guy was the cause of Ruth’s death he probably wouldn’t give a shit, or he’d blame her for being weak. kick his ass Billie, service or not he’s endangering a life
Man, what is it with this comic and horrible congas? Between Amber’s dad, Becky’s dad, Joyce’s mom, Sal’s parents, and Ruth’s Grandad, I’m starting to wonder if having kids makes one evil.
While he did go too far in what he just said, am I really the only one that understands where he’s coming from? And I’m sure that if Ruth did, she’d gain that much stability.
I can’t imagine where you think he’s coming from that isn’t completely horrible? Is it the ableism? The fact that he thinks she owes him something just because he did at least the bare minimum required of him by law as a guardian? The complete disregard for her well-being?
I can’t see how any of that is supposed to make Ruth “stable”.
Well, technically he wasn’t actually required by law to take in Ruth and Howard, but he’s bad enough that it’s debatable whether or not, “Well, at least he kept them out of foster care/from becoming wards of the state” is actually a good thing.
I spent time as a “Ward of the State” in group homes and foster care. It’s actually far less damaging than people seem to make it out to be. I’m not without my own issues and problems, but seriously, I’d go through all that crap in group homes over some controlling fuckwad like this asshole any day of the week. At least in a Group home, you know your lot. Your a number, but at least so is everyone else, and you work for what you have, and there are people to help you, and access to counselors and such, that you dont get otherwise unles you got a good healthcare plan and a caring family. And, some of the people that work in group homes, and take in foster children, are really great loving people. [some of them are also assholes, but really in those situations, the foster child can make sure they get replaced into a new home rather expediently if necessary.]
Once he took them in he was in fact required by law to feed, shelter them, and send them to school so he doesn’t get to act like letting them live inside the house was some kind of favor he was doing them.
He apparently hated is son-in-law so much that he’s taking it out on his own granddaughter?
I really don’t see any way that understanding him would do the slightest bit of good for Ruth in the face of the unrestrained, toxic garbage spewing out of him.
Okay, what? No seriously where is it you think he’s “coming from”? This is a man terrorizing his granddaughter, what could possibly be okay about that? What could possibly make you think anything is happening here that’s okay? These are serious questions I would appreciate an answer to them, where are you coming from here?
It doesn’t matter how much money Clint’s thrown at the college, stepped in and pulled strings, or how sad he is at the loss of his daughter. He can’t be that sad if he throws the fact that she and her husband died in Ruth’s face just to add insult to injury. He treats her as if the serious issues she’s sustaining due to their deaths and his actions make her a defect, and he blames her father’s influence for it. Speaking of the parallel he makes between Ruth and her father, it shows he is willing to say to her face that her dad didn’t deserve his daughter due to his mental problems, and in a latent function it drills in a message that Ruth doesn’t deserve people who will love her either. You can find the proof of this message way back when she told Billie “I’m poison.” It’s now we see it wasn’t just because she had an alcohol problem. She thinks that she is the problem because that’s what her grandfather has told her for years. And don’t think that the alleged infidelity gives anyone a reason to side with Clint. If this is how he acts towards mental illness, then it’s safe to assume that if the infidelity happened, it was not the tipping point for Clint to hate the late Mr. Lessick. It was his chance to feel justified in the terrible things he says and does. No one should feel obligated to act grateful to their abusers.
I can see where he’s coming from, inasmuch as he sees the good-for-nothing man her daughter married (who then just continued to dig himself deeper) in Ruth rather than an independent person.
I suspect he genuinely thinks he’s being magnanimous by giving Ruth even this backhanded, serrated support, and perceives it as a personal insult (delivered posthumously by Ruth’s father) that she’s messing it up.
He’s an abusive fuckwit, but I genuinely think this is a guy who could theoretically actually benefit from therapy more than some of the other terrible parental figures in this strip. I strongly doubt he will, in part because that kind of personal journey really seems to be for the young in this strip.
And also because that would be copping to the same kind of weakness that he hates so much in Ruth and her father.
He hated her father, is glad he’s dead, and his hatred of Ruth is bound up with his hatred of her dead dad. How would an understanding of this, assuming she doesn’t already understand very well since he’s not shy about telling her, offer Ruth more stability?
Just noticed this, but going back and reading my replies the last few strips of the posts of pure strong emotion vs when I post after decompressing a bit, I noticed something. When I’m less emotional, I am trying to find every excuse possible to excuse my dad’s behavior. I know he’s abusive and manipulative, but at the same time I love him and he loves me… right? I don’t know. Seeing how I feel laid out has caused a serious mind fuck which I don’t know how to process. I didn’t lie about anything he’s done, but I’ve always excused or justified it in some way. One poster mentioned narcissism and although I’ve toyed with the idea at times, I’ve never had someone else say it. I just don’t know what to think.
When we’re calmer, it’s easier to see both sides of the situation. But it’s also easier to override the emotional cues telling us that person’s behavior was unconscionable. I don’t know if that’s a helpful observation…
I despise this guy even more than toedad. Toedad was at least doing what he thought he had to for his daughter’s benefit, however misguided. THIS asshole is only interested in HIMSELF and how Ruth’s problems will reflect on HIM.
More than that, his particular type of abuse is more insidious and invisibly damaging than toedad’s. He makes me want to slap him, really hard.
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well, Billie, your heart is in the right place?
…
HUGHES|BILLINGSWORTH
LIVE! IN THE CENTER ARENA!
12-ROUND WORLD WELTERWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP
HE FOUGHT IN WARS
SHE WAS A CHEERLEADER
REED HALL ARENA
Bloomington Indiana USA
POPCORN TEN DOLLARS
PUDDING FOR FREE
PREPARE FOR SOFT PUNCH ACTION.
TEST YOUR MIGHT!
To hell with that!! We need Joyce’s *Fists of Justice and Righteous Fury* as well as AmaziGirl and Sal to jump in. Maybe Velociraptor mode Dina. Hell, let’s make it a street fight and let Sarah bring her *Bat of Old Testament Smiting*!!!
take a pic or video with your phone and show chloe, also fuck going easy cause he’s old, this dudes all muscle , you aren’t gonna do to much damage.
I don’t know…no matter how strong a guy is a well placed thumb in the eye followed by a knee to the family jewels can take the fight right out of someone. And there are a loads of other spots you could strike to incapacitate a larger opponent. Being a target for bullies my dad and cousin aught me to “fight smart”.
Now if only she could put her fist in the right place. Which, now that I think about it, is an EXCELLENT double entendre. Belated HEYOOOOOOOOOOOOO
HE FOUGHT IN WARS
SHE WAS A CHEERLEADER
♪Can I make it anymore obvious?♪
he was an ass
she took ballet
her punch made him gasp,
what more can i really say?
HE WAS A SOLDIER MAN
SHE SAID “YOU’RE AN OLDER MAN”
“AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE SIR”
NOW THIS ABUSIVE JERK
FORCING RUTH TO GO TO WORK
NEEDS TO GET SUCKER PUNCHED BY HER
idk why I’m yelling
it’s avril lavigne more than enough reason lmao
Fuck you Mr. Hughes.
AMEN.
Seconded. Can we have the chamber pass this motion by acclamation?
Aye.
It’s obviously an incredibly complicated, touchy situation where an old man lost his daughter, but black-and-white moralizing is way more fun. Hooray for being self-righteous! Boo old men!
Seriously?
The world is complicated! You can’t look at a man threatening and belittling his granddaughter for her “weakness” in having mental problems and not try to understand what he’s going through!
OK, so if I (bigger, stronger, possessed of full adult authority while you are not, with more money and power than you have ever come close to) grab your wrists, loom over you, relentlessly push every button that I installed in your psyche because you are just barely no longer the child I helped shape, and tell you that you are scum because your parent was scum, that you are stupid and lazy because you have been ill, and that you can never escape my plans for you, that’s totes cool?
Even if Ruth’s dad was every bit the worthless failure that Clint claims he was (not at all likely), Clint is still completely out of line. His granddaughter just made a suicide attempt, and his response is to shame her, belittle her, and insult her dead father. He’s so focused on Ruth’s R.A. job that he can’t be spared even a moment to inquire about her welfare or offer support. His entire response to her suicide attempt was “We had a *close call,* didn’t we?”
That’s it. And that’s unforgivable.
I agree. He’s a cold hearted man who only cares about himself and everyone else is merely an extension of him.
……There was an attempt.
I mean, it got him to stop yelling at Ruth for a bit. Confusion is better than anger.
He’s fought in wars girl.
Yeah, yeah, so have I. That doesn’t make either of us less an asshole.
I think Kris was quoting his Shortpacked! appearance, and the comment is more making a point about his ability to take punishment, rather than justifying any of his current behavior. However, having once been strong and healthy enough to participate in warfare does not automatically mean he is still able to take a punch.
that was a shortpacked reference?
I thought it was a Dead Rising reference lol
I read all of shortpacked and didn’t even remember him in there, heh.
see also secret link in first post
billie, go for his knees
Sweep the leg.
…Except it’s a good guy doing it this time.
go for his hip
“Look, it’s people complaining about modern GI Joe figures!”
“Huh?”
“LEG SWEEP!!!”
[If you know what this is a reference to, congrats, you’re a major nerd]
Do I get extra major nerd points for being the one keeping the compiled filename story?
Yes.
Still better than any of the fights in Iron Fist heyooooooooooooooooooo
false! lewis tan fought splendidly!
Indeed, but not splendidly enough to save that show from Finn Jones’ complete and utter lack of training
Or charisma.
true, sadly
I had such moderate hopes for that show.
I’m just glad that the show with the least interesting premise turned out to be the really terrible one. I’d’ve been sad if one of the interesting shows was that shitty.
I still think it’s only about as Daredevil season 2.
as bad. I fail typing forever
DD at least has good choreography going for it. And the Punisher/Kingpin ep was genuinely great. It had some other stuff going for it to, but the biggest thing it had that IF lacked was a competent production staff. Did you notice that at several points during a few of the fights, they had to blur out the faces of the combatants because they were stuntmen? Like… wow.
theres a video on twitter comparing the dd hallway fight and a fight in if and whereas the dd fight has no cuts, the if fight has 45 cuts in less than 30 seconds
Is that the one where he’s trying to get the X-ray? Because My GOD, there were way too many cuts in that scene.
yeah, thats the one!
There’s one fight where Danny is wearing a hoodie specifically so they can conceal just how much of that work is being done by the stuntman
I read the actors sometimes got as few as 15 minutes to practice their fight choreography before they started shooting. If true, it’s no wonder they had to toss if off to the stuntmen so often.
[speaking fisticuffs]
:(((
Clint giving Blaine and Ross a run for their money.
It always comes down to jerk dads disagreeing with their daughters’ decisions.
…and abusing/dehumanizing them, but yeah that too
Blaine, sure. Not yet in the Gunman’s league.
Though given how bad he’s proven to be in such a short time, who knows?
I give this guy rank on Toedad because, to me, at least Toedad is a buffoon who believes that he’s doin’ right by Jebus. Toedad has good intentions, even though they lead to him being a fundamentally awful person. This guy and Blaine are just abusive, narcissistic, horrendous ragebeasts with no redeeming qualities and no reason to live, without whom the world would inherently be better.
There was not one damn thing about the intentions of the Toe That Walks Like A Man that were even remotely good. His intentions were “force the daughter I regard as my property to obey my will.”
“…because if she doesn’t God is going to send her to burn in agony in the pits of hell forever and ever.”
Toedad is awful because he’s a product of a horribly fucked up Evangelical culture. That doesn’t make him good, but it does make him more pitiable than this guy.
Eh, I feel like Clint here has good intentions to the same extent Toedad did – they both have the mindset that they know best and it’s their job as parent/grandparent to keep the naive and foolish youngster from making a terrible life-ruining mistake. Why Clint thinks it’s so important that Ruth keep the RA job I don’t know, maybe he figures forcing her to see it through to the end of the year will help her become stronger and avoid being a useless flake who quits every time the going gets tough (which I assume Clint thinks was true of her father). He’s just terribly mistaken about “tough love” being the cure for every ill.
Ross still wins. He actually tried to kill people.
Ross wins in terms of being an immediate threat. I think Clint takes the title from Blaine for the “100% Toxic Parent” category. He stands a chance at taking Ross’s title as well though.
I dunno – Blaine’s responsible for the bad road AG’s going down.
But that bad road is partially responsible for saving Becky from Ross…
I guess it’s a good thing being a toxic shitstain of a human being isn’t a competition, because if it were, quantifying it would be incredibly complicated.
I don’t think “whose worse” can be determined because it’s all bad and which is “worse” is subjective.
Also, because “whose worse” sounds like you are attempting to find out who owns a worse.
It’s “who’s worse.”
You know, when someone calls you a ____ Nazi, it’s usually not a compliment, so why should grammar be any different?
You could treat it is a lecture, learn that part of the grammar and from then on become a better writer.
The soup, however, you will have to pay as always!
Ross wins SO FAR. Sir Clint isn’t done racking up asshole-points yet.
(And I’d still rank Blaine worse than Ross. But they’re so bad that the question is wholly academic.)
Given what happened to Bonnie – Ross actually was at least part guilty of SUCCESSFULLY killing one person. So yeah, for now he has the #1 Asshole trophy. Personally I would say Blaine still has the #2 spot, if nothing else because Ruth and Howie only had to spend PART of their childhood with Clint.
But it’s a close call.
ooooooooooooooh see i keep forgetting who ross is because the comments have been calling him toedad for like a year
i think it’s more appropriate. ross will always be the dude from Friends for me.
It’s why it bugs me that people all this guy by his name instead of making up a nickname. I know at least a handful of Clints, and I don’t want to sully their name by referring to this guy by that name.
I think that he, ToeDad, and Terri-dad (get it?) should not get the luxury of being referred to by name.
I use their names partly to remind myself that they are human. That humans can be monsters like this. That really, only humans are monsters like this.
That the apparently nice friendly guy down the street could be the one abusing his kids.
Thinking of the abusers as Other, as not human, as Something Else, makes it harder to see them in real life.
I haven’t got a good villain name for Clint. Or Blaine. Butthole Dad and Gashface are both canon. Closest we’ve had for Clint is “Sir”, and fuck if I’m going to call him that. Maybe Billie will come up with something good in the next few days.
All I’ve got so far is “Granddick” and “Grandpa Asshat”
…there’s a reason I write code and not prose for a living.
Clint – G.I. Jackass
Blaine – that fucking gorilla.
…I think the fact that Billie’s standing up for her is likely more than Ruth has ever gotten before.
I hope it helps her.
And it has stopped him, at least for the nonce.
Yeah, someone viewed her as worth standing up for, fighting for. That matters. That matters a lot.
I second that
If totally adorkable failure counts as fighting.
…. which I guess it does, for purposes of gestures of support.
Based on what we’ve seen so far, give him a minute and he’ll say something that’ll have Billie Falcon Punch him into a wall.
I dunno, he’s done a decent job of moderating himself in the presence of witnesses. Though there’s a good chance he won’t respect her enough to care if she sees.
This comic brought to you by the expression 🙁 .
So now there’s absolutely no question that he is a despicable abuser. He’s a vile, vile man.
Which given Ruth’s reactions to him and how she’s talked about him was completely obvious.
*Incredibly* so. But hey! LET’S GIVE THE WHITE GUY A CHANCE!
HE STILL HASN’T HIT ANYBODY SO STOP RUSHING TO JUDGEMENT
sigh
He’s not even that white. Looks more like severely undercooked poultry.
“IT’S FUCKIN’ RAW”
-Gordon Ramsay, from off panel
Yes. His behaving himself in front of others? That’s what we have to deal with. And you can see even if he never physically harms her, he has torn her to spreads with nothing but words. But others will think they are such a good person and you must be lying. Abuse is like rape, assume it’s the truth unless proven otherwise. A lot of us try to protect our abusers as well, so just because we say it’s okay ,doesn’t mean it is.
Yeah, a lot of abuse survivors and rape survivors minimize what happens to them, make excuses, find ways that it was our own fault.
So when we say, this happened, it’s usually much much worse.
Agreed. I went through both and boy did I go through some insane mental gymnastics to justify and excuse what happened. They never show that part in the movies.
May I offer both of you a hug? All of this sucks so much.
It took me quite a while to realize that the way my mother treated me was *not normal*…
*accepts and offers hugs in return*
Hug accepted and reciprocated
Yeah I don’t take meds cause decades of stress built up for “no reason”, and I got off easy compared to most by comparison but even a slow burn can leave lasting effects and scars and feeling powerless cause no one believes you or don’t feel justified doing something about it makes it worse in the long run and does make you give up asking or looking for help.
“Abuse is like rape, assume it’s the truth unless proven otherwise.”
I hate to be that guy, but I have to add “except in legal proceedings”, because while our current justice system is cruel to victims of both, guilty until proven innocent is a dangerous path to tread.
Considering you know how this can come across, did you need to state the obvious? No one was talking about bloody legal proceedings, and almost never are in these discussions.
But this shit is used as a stick against rape survivors constantly, and I really don’t think anyone’s justice system is at risk of unfair prosecution of (white) rapists.
If they feel it needed stated, then I’m not going to get angry with them. I know people who have been falsely accused in a legal fashion for various things and it’s a terrible experience. I’m saying if somebody you know is sitting face to face with you and says they were raped, assaulted, or abused, believe them. If they cry, believe them. If they fidget and laugh nervously, believe them. If they try to justify it, trivialize it, or are in denial, believe them. If something they describe sounds like nothing a human being would do to another human being or if they seem confused when something shocks you, believe them If they mention it without a discernible change in emotion or like it doesn’t bother them, believe them. If the victim isn’t what you pictured a victim could be (like a muscular man being the victim of a petite woman), believe them. And never ask them “Why didn’t you…” followed by “mistakes” they made at the time. We already know them all.
Here’s an article about a man that assaulted a woman just in case you are on the fence about how to feel in a non legal one on one setting. Just because he didn’t realize what he did at the time, doesn’t make her feelings of violation less real.
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1758-5-things-i-learned-committing-campus-sexual-assault.html
I second all of the above.
Yeah… since you’re being “that guy,” I’ll be “that girl”: I didn’t go to the police about the ex-boyfriend who raped me, for Reasons. It couldn’t really have been rape because if I had thought faster on my feet, it wouldn’t have happened; I genuinely cared about the guy and he’d convinced me that he did it because his heart was broken and he just wanted to convince me to come back; I didn’t want to “ruin an innocent man’s life” because I was a stupid drama queen who couldn’t control her overreactions, my story sounded super-sketchy when you said it out loud, etc.
Then, a little more than a year later, two guys in suits met me at the door as I was coming home from a double shift. “Oh, no,” I thought, “I am so tired, and I don’t have the energy to be rude to Mormons.”
It turns out they were the FBI. It turned out it was rape. It turned out I was not the first, nor the last. I was just the first over the age of twelve. He had started courting me because I had a daughter (who had become “too developed” for him to be interested in, thank f*ck, and who lived with her father and stepmother out of state and only met him once). It turned out that when he was using my computer and Internet to “look for jobs” while I was at work (I told you my story sounded super-sketchy!) he was trading and producing child sexual imagery from my home.
I get literal nightmares about the mothers of the young girls he hurt, six to eleven years old at the time, calling me up and asking why I didn’t report him, why I didn’t at least try to stop this man from hurting others stop this man when he hurt me.
I didn’t stop him because he was innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
I didn’t report him because really, when it comes down to it, *I* was the one who made it rape by my stubborn refusal to want him.
That is just one of the depths the rabbit hole of self-accusation (and cultural protection of rapists) can go.
It is my fault those little girls were hurt. I believe M. was a literal monster who couldn’t help himself (he’s in prison for a long, long time), but I knew better than to let a criminal walk free. Sometimes people say, “I’m sorry that happened to you.” Don’t be. Be sorry that I was such a self-absorbed jerk that I let this happen to others.
I hope maybe the “that guys” of this world can also find it in their conscience to quote the statistic about “false rape” reports being about as common as “false car theft” reports…
It’s not your fault. It’s his fault.
I am sorry it happened to you. And sorry it happened to them. The cultural protection is real. The push to blame the victim is real. Even for the victim to blame herself. Even if you had reported it, the chances are good it wouldn’t have stopped him.
You know all this of course, but it doesn’t hurt to hear it again. It’s not your fault.
And all the internet hugs or whatever gestures you’re comfortable with.
Thank you. You may never know how important it is to hear that someone is hearing your story.
Maybe it’s not my fault, but it was my responsibility to stop. And as much as I would like to walk away and never think of myself as a person who failed to save children because I was too chicken poop to think of myself as the one who put a nice guy in jail, I think it is my responsibility to tell my story and make others think about dismissing the victim’s narrative…. even when they are the victim.
Justifying and denial are normal reactions Laura. You are not in charge of any of his actions just because you didn’t go forward. I was sexually assaulted by a date once and tried everything to convince myself that I didn’t until later. I didn’t report it and even if I had’ve, it would have been my word against his and he didn’t mean it right? My ex raped me, but it took my friend sitting down and talking to me for me to realize it was rape because screaming “What the fuck!?!” and saying “I don’t want sex” is saying no. He’s with a woman much younger than me now and I worry for her safety. At one point I reached out to her to end up flat out blocked.
You need to remember that what he did to you or anyone else is not your fault. You going to the police and reporting him would not have made it impossible for him to assault others if he wanted to do so especially if he won his case. You are a victim, not the cause.
I might have missed this yesterday, but I just wanted to come back and say that it’s never your fault for someone else hurting others. It’s genuinely a terrible thing that so few rapists are prosecuted at the moment and that the legal system is as hostile to victims as it is today, and that when prosecutions do rarely happen they’re inevitably on the light side when it comes to penalties. I think it’s terrible that you had to be put through that experience and that he’s put you in a situation where you’re questioning whether you’re guilty. That’s never OK.
“I hate to be that guy.”
No, okay, no. You do not get absolved for saying horrible shit just because you preface it with how upset you are for saying it.
If you hate being that guy, don’t BE that guy. We don’t need that guy around right now. Nobody is talking about the responsibility jurors have. We live in a society in which the first public response to literally EVERY other accusation of crime is presuming guilt, but when it comes to rape, we just assume the victim is a lying whore trying to get something by sabotaging her whole life.
Just. Stop. Stop bringing this up. We are all perfectly aware of the nature of our justice system, we do not need to hear about when we’re talking about how victims never get believed.
What I’m bothered by is that this only gets brought up with regrds to abuse and rape which are some of the most under-reported, underprosecuted, and most harrowing legal environments for victims crimes there are.
Every time people talk about that folks are triping over themselves to say innocent until proven guilty, but not for laws where the person on trial for a crime that often does have an overprosecution or a history of supicious police behavior.
We don’t get folks in any discussion of say posession charges, failure to pay citation cases, or sex worker arrests going out of their way to say “innocent until proven guilty” even though in reality, given how much proof a survivor needs to bring a case to court, those cases are exponentially more likely to involve actually innocent people.
Which bothers me because shit like that contributes to this public idea that rape or abuse are these things where it’s easy for a person to be falsely accused or where there’s much actual harm to career and life from a rape accusation (you get more blaclisted for being a victim than a perpetrator) and this leads to the problem where it is nearly impossible to put someone in jail for rape or abuse.
“You get more blac[k]listed for being a victim than a perpetrator.”
Yup. People think that saying you’re a rape victim gets attention. Well, yeah, so does cancer. On the whole, we’d rather be in Philadelphia. It’s not like saying it’s your birthday to see if you can get a free dessert out of a restaurant (which I would NEVER do), and I wish people would stop acting like it is.
I was responding to a specific statement regarding a specific context – don’t get me wrong, I *don’t* think false reports are a big issue now, and I do know that underreporting is a huge issue, as is underprosecution, I just think that the blanket statement “Abuse is like rape, assume it’s the truth unless proven otherwise.” can be dangerous as well. I don’t know what the solution is to prosecuting rape, and it definitely isn’t what we’re doing now, with so many rapists going free, but it also isn’t throw anyone in jail who gets a report against them.
And I agree, more discussion of “innocent until proven guilty” should be given to posession charges, failure to pay citation cases, and sex worker arrests.
Yeah, it honestly makes me sad.
Indeed. I was one of the people who wanted to withhold judgement. Obviously, the time for withholding judgement is over.
I do not consider it a mistake to have withheld judgement, because now, scarcely a week later, we have undeniable proof, and I can jump on the hate-bandwagon with all of you. What have I lost, for having withheld for that week?
I never said he was good, just that there was a chance he might not be evil. I still believe that there could have been a chance, based on the evidence in-story we had seen up to that point.
It is only with meta-understanding of the author that people could be so sure of his guilt, and for ignoring that, I do not apologize. I read this comic as a story, rather than an author-tract, and even if it is the latter, I will not stoop to viewing it as such.
While I understand your irritation at the people who denied you immediate moral satisfaction, please try not to strawman us all. We withheld judgement, and are now no longer doing so. If someone sincerely thinks Clint is still a good person or might be, I will be right there with you, arguing against them.
“Maybe Willis is actually a really bad writer” is your alternate explanation?
Takashoru:
First, no, you don’t need to know anything about Willis to read the signs that Clint was an abusive asshole. Go back on the last couple strips, or even back to the one where Ruth got that phone call, and you’ll find plenty of people recognizing the red flags from their own personal experience.
Secondly, regarding that last paragraph, stop. You may have missed it, since a good number of comments from the last couple days have been deleted, but there have been people not simply withholding judgement or failing to recognize the red flags, but arguing – disrespectfully – with people who saw this coming, calling them overdramatic, and other bullshit.
Nobody is being strawmanned here, there really were people being that asinine.
Oops, replied to the wrong comment. Not aimed at you.
Okay, NOW he’s a piece of crap. Before he had something resembling deniability.
that said, panel 4’s expression is unreasonably hilarious.
The hair eyes are outta control.
I love Billie’s expression in panel five, myself. It is so exactly the expression kittens make when they are experimenting with play-fighting. “This is a bite, yes? I am so fierce and a mighty warrior and slayer of catnip mousies?” I just hope Clint hasn’t raised kittens enough to know that you need to shut that down RIGHT away with kittens.
…Scratch that, I just hope Clint gets his head knocked straight before anyone lets him near kittens, ever.
The red flags were always there. Before we ever even saw his face.
^This a thousand times
There was smoke.
This is the fire.
Except when people see smoke, nobody argues with the people insisting there’s fire, that something else MUST be creating smoke, and we should just give it a chance
THIS.
Never rule out a giant cloud of airborne nanites.
Even though smoke can be created without fire, assuming you’re really bad at creating fire
But even then it’s a sign that the CONDITIONS of fire are present in some form, and even if there’s no actual fire it’s likely there either was or will be, and this metaphor is getting confusing so I’ll stop
AND THEN WE SAW HIS FACE
AND NOW WE’RE A BELIEVER
THAT THERE’S NOT A TRACE
OF GOOD IN HIS MIND
He’s a fuck,
Now we’re a believer
Billie won’t leave ‘er
Tho he tried
Ruth’s reason she could not kill herself despite being suicidal and wanting to was enough that there was no legitimate deniability after his 2nd panel.
There was also this : http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/05-media-rumble/sir/
No.
honestly ruth’s reaction + his ability to cham ms. pudding gave me the creeps
“Okay, NOW he’s a piece of crap. Before he had something resembling deniability.”
No he didn’t.
deniability? i thought up until today the only thing he explicitly exhibited was extremely shitty parenting.
but yeah nobody can deny him being abusive scum now.
KICK HIS ASS in a manner that wont be construed as elder abuse.
Karma gets stake before the cops.
Actually he might be like a turtle. Solid when standing but you knock him over and he’s done.
I am now picturing him, in his suit, on his back, kicking the air, unable to turn himself over.
He lays on its back, his belly baking in the hot sun, beating his legs trying to turn himself over. But he can’t. Not without your help. But you’re not helping. Why is that, Leorale?
(would pay to see this)
If his name was Sebastian and he had a Jamaican accent you would help him.
Nope. Though I do applaud your choice of reference.
Tomotoa is way cooler than Clint.
This guy isn’t even shiny.
If he was, his name would be Glint.
Distract him, Billie. He did that sufficiently in public to get punched. Someone else might see.
And probably “not notice,” ‘cuz that’s what folks do, but you could give it a shot.
Yeah, no Mr. Hughes needs to go die in a hole
Billie Bops: certified soft.
Sawft is sin!
If she had a dime for every empty she’s ever failed to return to the bottle depot, she’d have…a lot of dimes, sadly.
Billie, you’re a cheerleader. Your best offense is likely a kick to the side of his head.
He’s tall.
Cheerleaders have to be able to jump. And pretty high as well, she could probably get a good jumping drop kick to his jaw.
If she can just barely reach his face with her kick, it won’t hit very hard.
She could probably kick him in the face from the ground–I could have done that to somebody a head taller than me when I was practicing, and I’m a fatty–the problem is it wouldn’t be terribly effective.
Plus that’s not a very fighty kick — you don’t want to risk throwing yourself off-balance, he’s free to defend his face, and skulls are hard. You want squishy vulnerable bits that are conveniently close by.
The More You Knowwww
Okay, but like Billie is, in her own words, an “alpha bongo” and has literally kicked down Ruth’s door. We know she’s more than capable of kicking someone’s skull in.
Not if she can barely reach it, though. You gotta kick like you want your foot to go through (and it kinda will, since faces move conveniently out of the way when they get kicked).
The point when your foot stops moving isn’t where you want to hit. You gotta hit before that.
I wasn’t really arguing over reach, I was more trying to refute “Billie can’t do a fighty kick”. She can.
That isn’t quite what Leorale said, though.
Not quite, but it was still kind of there. Idk. I really like Billie, and wanted to assert how awesome she is. Although, honestly I love all of the female characters so much, like almost all of them are so kickass; Amber/AG, Ruth, Billie, Carla, Joyce, Sal, Dina, Sarah, Jocelyn to an extent… (Becky’s more of a punk than a fighter, but she’s smarter than you’d assume, and has good sense.) And yet, their ability to fight isn’t theatrical in any way (save AG), it just is. Like yes please, I love these wonderful, capable women. I need more of them. And now I’m gushing, and please help me…
Billie is rad and could totally do a fighty kick if she wanted!
(I only meant to assert that high-kicks aren’t as fighty as other kicks she could do.)
Like kicking a bag of garbage down a jammed garbage chute.
…. but Leorale is right, there are better targets.
A jumping kick in a fight if you aren’t somebody who has years of practical experience in a kicking-centric martial art is still just inherently stupid, though. It’s a huge risk that can be massively punished and puts you in a terrible position, and it doesn’t actually carry that much more force than a grounded kick unless you’re full-tilt diving in.
If she wants to kick him in the head, kick the side of his knee in, first. You’d be surprised how much easier it is to land a devastatingly hard kick to the head when somebody is already on the ground.
Also, a kick is only as good as how high your leg can stretch. I’ve been out of practice in MMA for like 7 years now, but my legs can still stretch pretty damn high. Way higher than my head. My brother is about 7 inches taller than me, but I almost kicked him in the shoulder yesterday when he asked how high I could kick.
Well a boot to the head would be properly Canadian…
Steel-toed, Lumberjack, or Blue Puttee? (For that last one, look up the “Blue Puttees”)
I was thinking something a little more Frantic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfMcxmOBmpk
somebody else knows about these!
“I shit a pie!”
I thought it would be a stake to the heart?
No, aim for the targets you know actually exist.
she could crush his head with her thighs
Billie! You have to stop evil super Roosevelt! This isn’t what Churchill wanted!
He lacks the spruce mustache to be…oh wait, do you mean Franklin? Then in that case he needs to be in a wheelchair. P.S. Clint looks way more like an evil Churchill to me. Give him a cigar and one of Churchill’s signature hats and take away his glasses and they could be twins.
Wow, the creator of another comic I read regularly has joined into the discussion!
It’s okay Billie. Feel free to break him in half.
Seriously though. I insist. I’m pretty sure your parents have enough money to make a body disappear. It’ll be a bonding experience!
Mr. Billingsworth: *sniff* “I am so proud of you Billie. Now I don’t need to worry about the family business.”
Billie: “Wait. What?”
Mr. Billingsworth: “Yeah, the company’s just a front. I’m actually the leader of an Irish mob family with it’s roots in the prohibition era. I might have to ‘discipline’ some of the underlings in order for them to accept you as heir apparent, but that should be easy enough.”
Mr. Billingsworth…is the head of an Irish mob family.
Hostile takeover by a disgruntled underling. Classic.
His grandfather changed the family last name after the Easter uprising in 1916 to secretly smuggle arms to Michael Collins’s IRA without raising the suspicion of being anything more than an American merchant. The original name was O’Riley. They still use it when talking mob business, but for all other things he uses the cover name his grandfather came up with. He also owns a third Chicago, has half of Ohio and Pennsylvania in his pocket, and is the shadow ruler of Massachusetts. He’s trying to expand his Great Lakes operations by establishing a smuggling route between Canada and Northern Michigan, and is one of the ten most power criminals in the country, with a couple of moles in the FBI, the NSA, and even one in the CIA for good measure. All while being the magnanimous “Mr. Billingsworth” to the public.
A third Chicago? I didn’t even know about the second one!
Damnit, it’s supposed to be “a third of Chicago” not “a third Chicago” goddamn spell check.
Magnanimous to rich people anyways, but once he kicks all the poor people out of downtown, the only ones left will be rich (or at least middle class, which he SUPPOSES he can tolerate if he has to), so who cares what poor folks have to say anyways?
Where do you think he’s been getting his smugglers? He buses the homeless out of the cities and then offers them tenant housing on the Great Lakes if they join the smuggling ring. Otherwise he sends them to Utah.
English mob. He’s from England.
Could work. But now I picture Billie slipping into a heavy Cockney accent whenever she gets angry, while having a “normal” American accent the rest of the time. It is damn hilarious.
Mixed with very rude Mandarin swear words she learned from mama, yes, I like this plan.
This is now head cannon. Thank you. I needed this. I am giggling so hard.
Then my work here is done!
Ok, wasn’t planning on liking this, but now I do and except it as head-cannon. I also now choose to believe that Walky calls it “Billie’s angry Hong Kong Brit mode”.
i believe that this man has alternate views on how respect works and how depression should be handled :/
Alternate to what? To facts?
Yes. I believe gkheyf was going for… um… what’s it called when you understate something so much it becomes funny? I’m sure there was a word for that…
Understatement?
I think I’ve just said “humorous understatement.”
When I had to explain my intent because sarcasm is dead.
Reverse Hyperbole?
Honey, my dad has tried to yell the depression out of me some days just calling me a lazy ass. He was also against antidepressants until a doctor flat out told him I wouldn’t survive without them and could never be off them for the rest of my life. It’s a not uncommon view on depression, but just because some people think it, doesn’t make it true or allow it to hold up against hard facts. Think anti-vaxxers.
Wait, that’s a reply to me?
Iiiii am familiar with this one, but thanks.
I’m saying they believe “facts” that are not facts but opinions and think it’s just an alternative viewpoint/approach which goes against real facts, but not their twisted version of facts. And it wasn’t a response so much to you personally, just what you said (rather honest or sarcastic) to outline the problem abuse victims face when the abuser twists reality and facts to their liking still believing they are true and correct instead of what it is.
facts are just opinions. opinions are just ideas i haven’t decided whether or not they are facts. ideas don’t exist unless i believe in them. i only believe in facts.
isn’t that how it works?
Less views, and more complete and total apathy and/or disdain.
Yeah. This hits close. I tried to kill myself when I was 16, and my parents gave me a good dressing down about how I should stop asking to have friends come over late and I had a lot of work to do to re-earn their trust.
It’s the thought that counts, Billie!
*plays The Power Station’s “We Fight For Love” on the hacked Muzak*
And of course I misread that as Power Rangers and now have their Go Go Power Rangers music in my head as she battles him XD
That brings back memories of Ahnold in a spandex superhero suit for Jingle All The Way.
Well, Billie made Ruth’s frown stop getting frownier before it collapsed into a sadularity. That’s worth something, I guess.
bless you for coining the word “sadularity” i honestly don’t know what i was doing with my life up to this point
It was a punch in the same way that Taco Bell is food.
You people and your irrational hatred for Taco Bell.
(Confession: I actually eat at Taco Bell a fair amount of the time. They are the cheapest place to get a meal on my campus.)
If it fits in the mouth and digests in the gut, then it is food. It may not have been intended as food, but so it is written.
He may be elderly, but Billie still shoud kick his ass.
Holy shit, what a wretched piece of shit asshole shitstain bastard of a person. Fuck that guy. Punch him harder, Billie.
Also, I love Billie coming to Ruth’s defense, like a knight in shining armor. (cheerleading uniform counts as armor, these are facts). I love these girls trying their best in a shitty situation stacked against them and I love their love.
And once more for good measure: fuuuuccccckkkk that guy.
I hate to say it, but he’s worse than Mary.
At least Mary has the self-awareness to know that trying to get someone to kill themselves is bad. Sir apparently sees Ruth’s suicide attempt as nothing more than an insult to himself.
Dos she? The next day she asked Billie to let her drive Carla to the same state as Ruth.
*Does
I doubt Mary and people like her view trans people as human. I’ve certainly encountered plenty who don’t.
True enough. Blech.
mary is more malignant, but that’s only because she has less power. this guy has more power, so he doesn’t have to be malignant all the time – unless it gets him what he wants. which is ruth cringing into a puddle of malleable goo.
w o w.
Mary is also young, which leaves the possibility of her changing much more open. Clint is old and set in his ways. There’s little hope.
Shortest on panel introduction to punch time yet for an ass in this comic.
I’m, like, pretty sure the guys Amazi-Girl beat up when she first met Danny had a shorter record.
They don’t count. We were never properly introduced to them.
One of them was Beef, and he is tagged…
No. Tied with Blaine. Amber clocked him in his 4th strip. Much more effectively than Billie does here too.
He also got thrown by Ruth a few strips later and eventually the full on beat down from Amazi-Girl. See what Clint’s got to look forward to.:)
A solution presents itself! If Billie follows him around constantly and pathetically fistbops his arm, he’ll be too distracted to be abusive! Probably maybe not at all!
What does this solve, you ask? Why, the WACKY HIJINX deficiency!
That actually sounds like my sister.
I’m still not sure whether she actually tries to hurt me and she’s just really bad at it, or she thinks an actual attack wouldn’t work out for her for various reasons.
Is your last name Sturmvoraus by any chance?
Pretty sure that applies to Wulfenbach as well.
To Gil, at least.
Especially given what happens when you do a Google Image search for “chump girl genius”.
People who haven’t read Girl Genius will have no idea what that means.
At least he has a nice hat 😉
I’m not going to lie, I want that hat so badly.
At some point, he’ll either start adjusting or decide “to hell with it” and go for her windpipe.
That prompts a thought: If he lays a hand on Billie, I wonder if that’ll be enough to snap Ruth out of her paralysis and hurt him.
“The cane is more for show than anything else. And punching more wouldn’t do anything; I’ve fought in wars, kid.”
“…I didn’t think it could get any more awkward.”
(Also, I apologize if you try to talk to me and I don’t respond; I mostly just a few comments in the night, when I have some spare time, and am too lazy/buzy to add on that during the day. In daytime, I’m mostly found on a website for young writers.)
This kind of makes me hope he is so insulted that he tells her out right to hit him as hard as she can, and then Amazigirl comes in with a foldable metal chair and takes up his offer
It won’t happen, but I still want it
“Unfaithful”?
Oh, yeah. Walkyverse.
Richard “Dick” Lesse. Or Lessick, in this universe.
The worst part is that I read “Dick” Lessick and part of me is tempted to laugh, but the above comic makes it seem more cruel than anything else. ‹.‹
Billie is a goddamn hero.
Which is my way of echoing what knightsbridge said above — there’s a really good chance no one has ever stood up for Ruth like this before. And having even just one person on your side in the face of a lifetime of abuse feels like a goddamn actual miracle.
This is so true.
This guy is pretty much a Disney villain at this point
“
MotherGrandfather knows beeeeee-eeeeeest!”If only. His kind is frighteningly real.
In related news, I have retired the phrase “cartoonish[ly] evil” from my lexicon.
i mean like a lot of disney villains were based on real things
gaston is frighteningly real
it’s not that unrealistic that a stepmother might try to kill her stepdaughter in a weirdass competition when patriarchy sets women against each other literally all the time
frollo is…unpleasantly realistic
hans is that douchebag who’s willing to lie to a girl to get what he wants and doesn’t give a damn
gothel’s manipulation is like. textbook emotional abuse
like the psychology of disney villains has to make sense in order for them to be believable threats so there are ties to real things even though it’s a fantastic setting and written for children. i mean. people go on about dickensian levels of cruelty but charles dickens was a reporter before he was a novelist and a lot of his level of detail comes from his understanding of the class inequalities and realities of his world
See, Hans to me makes the least sense, but thats probably more because he was a rewrite villain they weren’t willing to completely commit to how much of a conniving douche he was, preceded by a somehow almost perfectly choreographed duet.
I mean, Gaston is a lot more consistent and still seems like one of the creepiest Disney villains to me. If only because Hans wouldn’t go full creeper cause all he wanted was the throne and not the girl as well, instead of Gaston’s full fledged plans to get Belle to marry him and have infinite babies. Or colluding to throw her father in an insane asylum to force her hand in marriage, etc.
Still, I mean a Ryan is a Hans done more properly than Disney could ever allow in their stuff, so yeah, still a horrible type of person that exists in the real world as well.
The almost perfectly choreographed duet where he was always a couple beats behind so he could figure out what she wanted to hear and then sing it?
idk partially that’s the fault of screentime, i think – they had four main characters. Elsa, Anna, Hans and Kristoff. and then Olaf. like – Hans gets a song, whereas the prince charmings of snow white and cinderella get barely a scene or two. it can be difficult to signal subtle untrustworthiness when you’re trying to make a shock reveal. Hans was always gonna be just what Anna wanted until he got what he wanted. idk we’re more presented with his actions than with his reasoning which can be confusing
I save the phrase evil for cartoony supervillains. For people like him, I have the word “asshole”.
Especially since the asshole who was the basis of many of the cartoon villains in the 80s and 90s is now in control of the US and outdoing his fictionalized counterparts. There is apparently no depth a cartoon can sink to that a human can’t outdo.
Fiction has to be believable.
C’mon Billie. Hit the old bastige with his cane. Don’t get your knuckles all scraped up. The old buzzard needs to stroke out and leave Ruth alone.
Welp, and there’s the answer to someone’s comment yesterday about how this guy feels about his own daughter and his son-in-law.
I think there’s no doubts left on why Ruth’s mom ran all the way to Canada instead of staying close to home.
FIGHT FOR YOUR WOMAN BILLIE
Welp, hopefully that clears up any of the residual moral ambiguity.
Here, people who were holding out, we’ve saved you some pitchforks, torches are in the back.
Also next time please believe all the folks who tried to show you the red flags. They are smart and get to go first.
Please don’t kill him, it takes away my chance to slowly destroy everything he’s built up piece by piece.
can’t we do that after the funeral? i spent a really long time faking this will that bequeathes all his possessions to his grandkids giving them monetary independence
Some1: But, if he dies, wouldn’t Ruth or GOT!Boy (forget his name) inherit all that? Seems like a better revenge, to me…
Even better idea: Kill him, bring him back to life, THEN let Some1 have their way with him.
“I wish that they could walk forever,
On the earth, alone, unfettered
Til they pray for consolation,
Til they beg for sweet damnation
Then I’ll come and bring them water,
Bring them hope, bring them laughter
Raise their hopes so sad and sunken
Slash them up as they lie there drunken
Push them down into the foul mud
‘Til they choke up on their own blood
Drag them out before their last breath
To take away the mercy of death”
Thank you! Uh, since I believed the red flags personally but also felt it was necessary to point out that there was only circumstantial evidence, where do I go on line?
….very very near the back, sad to say.
I want everyone who said ‘maybe we should have ignored Ruth and Billie saying that he was an asshole and given him another chance to abuse Ruth before disliking him’ to apologize and fuck right off, but not in that order.
^ this
i’ll post this again here:
I don’t think most of those people were defending him. Believing that Ruth is/has experienced abuse/trauma and wanting to reserve judgement on Clint until he explicitly says or does something abusive are not mutually exclusive camps
Several times I’ve told friends my father is abusive. they believed me but thet didn’t immediately start ignoring him or treating him differently when they saw him out and about
Okay, but, like. That is not how they SHOULD be reacting. They SHOULD care about you enough NOT to treat him exactly the same way.
So yeah. They are mutually exclusive camps. They’re only not if you think somehow that it is better morally to let abused people keep being abused.
Giving him another chance was never part of my argument – strictly just wanted to wait for more evidence (which I got yesterday) – but I believe I am still included in your address.
This will be the fourth time I acknowledge that you were correct. I will continue to do so, because I do believe it is important that you see that people like me (not that all of the people you are addressing are like me) are doing this out of doubt, not bias.
Not doubt of Ruth, but doubt of everything and anything that we cannot verify. I am a scientist, and I do truly apply doubt to positive things as much as negative things. While all my fellows might not be quite so even-handed, I do not feel that my doubt was in itself a moral failing, for it was so easily and quickly removed. I updated on new information, as I knew I would, for it was certain to be forthcoming. I did not pre-judge, because pre-judging, as a class of action, is exactly what your enemies do, and will no more do it in your defense than I would against you.
I will agree that you were correct. I will apologize for the hurt that my withholding judgement caused you, but I will not apologize for the action itself. Prejudice is an evil in this world. My only crime was not having as much information as you, either about abuse, how Willis portrays it, or how Willis writes in general.
^ this is who I aspire to be
…oh, Billie, you precious and passionate and misguided girl. You tried.
Sooooo have all the That Guys been satisfied? We good?
They will never be satisifed. The next time a character tries to warn us that they’re terrified of someone, there will be a small army in the comments insisting that bongoes Be Crazy, Ya’ll.
Sigh, you’re probably right. However, you’ve also got Hamilton playing in my head now, which is sufficient distraction from that.
Unfortunately Clint did not end up like the guy in Hamilton who also got told “Thank you for your service” (Washington to Charles Lee after Lee got shot in the duel).
I thought that was Washington to the doctor who was also there for the duel, but I’ve only heard the soundtrack.
I’ve only heard the soundtrack as well, but I assumed it was to Lee, as a sort of apology for the way Hamilton and Laurens behaved.
Hello, here I am, satisfied. This is ample evidence. I had enough evidence yesterday, even. I said so then, I’ll say so now.
As I’ve said in other places, I was never your enemy, just not yet your ally. I was genuinely waiting for evidence, and here it is.
Do you still hate me so much for being two strips slower than you?
Have you ever considered maybe folks aren’t talking specifically about you?
Remember that time Joyce nearly got raped and a bunch of guys came out to call her a violent psycho for fighting back?
Eww.
No, actually. Which strip was that? I know Ryan’s cover was a “psycho-bongo” story, but I don’t remember anyone calling her out for fighting back. Link please?
Those were comments by real people. Not in-strip.
There were some horrible excuses in this thread, too, before they were mercifully deleted.
Er, not thread. Strip.
Oh. Ewwww…
Don’t strip!
Yeah, that was one of the epically low points.
There were also the guys who argued that Becky not investing the 20 bucks she got off Billie was proof that she was a spendthrift wastrel, that Toedad might not be that bad when he’d already pulled out the gun and was chasing her, and the folks who didn’t see anything transphobic in any of Mary’s actions and thought that she was really invested in her studies.
I dunno, I get the urge to look on the bright side, but at some point it’s got to be apparent that Willis has no interest in doing the “abuse survivor is exaggerating/making up their abuse” storyline like so many movies and TV series do and so it’s worth trusting characters and red flags earlier rather than later.
I eagerly await the next round to see their flavour of choice.
Will it be that Sal can’t be abused because Walky and Billie weren’t? Danny’s parents are just kidding? Perhaps Carol’s just REALLY REALLY upset that Joyce left without telling her? Aw, but shouldn’t Ethan try to repair his relationship with his mom?
At least we seem to have held off on Round Two for a while (and yes, I’m aware of the irony of that statement with the It’s Walky reruns going now).
People who STILL don’t see the transphobia in Mary’s actions, for that matter.
But, you know, we’re piling on THEM if we tell them they’re being horrible.
To be fair, dismissing evidence of transphobia is one of the internet’s favorite activities. Right up there with dismissing evidence of misogyny.
The existence of the word misogyny actually proves that only men can be oppressed, I’ve heard. I think maybe there needs to be a PSA about how straw man/ paper tiger arguments are actually a bad thing.
Woah, what?! Holy shit, seriously? I wasn’t around for that, I started reading the comic back in April 2012.
Sadly, what you said does not surprise me.
Yep. Fifth time saying so. Making sure I make all the rounds. You were right, and now that I am no longer withholding judgement, (which is not the same as defending the guy), I am too. I was never your enemy, I was just a little slower to be your ally.
The last panel fits perfectly with Billie’s reaction after chasing down Blaine back on Family Weekend.
. . . .Goddammit. He’s pushing his hatred of his Son in law unto his granddaughter. Which I get his anger and where it is coming from but there is no need nor right for him to . . .push? Transfer? That anger to all that remains of his Daughter. Think she’d be down right ashamed and . . .is there a rage-filled version of mortified?
So possible to salvage the relationship but not until either a) HEAVY INTENSE counseling or b) A serious ass kicking to make him realize what he is doing.
Go Billie though. Would have been better to follow through on that punch but props for effort.
No, I don’t think it’s possible. Even if it was possible it’s certainly not preferable.
It’s possible to salvage a relationship with my former stepfather.
But why would I want to?
(certainly he doesn’t want to, either)
I’d wager he never came to terms with losing his daughter and is twisting his pain into the abuse he’s heaping onto Ruth.
Also, you can clearly see the cultural repression of emotional/mental suffering in his day reflected in his disdain of others’ emotional and mental suffering. (Probably in no small part due to his inability to express his own emotional suffering due to said repression.)
I’d wager he abused his daughter just as much as he’s abusing Ruth and is mostly mad at Ruth’s dad for taking his victim away from him. Hence the “weak” comment.
It doesn’t really matter. He could have loved and adored his daughter but not a damn bit of that would make a difference that he’s torturing and abusing HER daughter.
The “weak” comment is directed at Ruth’s dad too though. If anything, it seems that he sees Ruth as ‘poisoned’ by her father’s traits, and why would he care about which of her parents she reflects more if he didn’t hold one of them in high esteem?
He clearly never respected her choice of husband. He might well have been less awful to Ruth’s mom, but the way he so easily unloads this garbage on Ruth makes me extremely doubtful that he wasn’t at least a controlling, demanding, Tywin Lanister-esque father. Love doled out sparingly, only as long as you follow the path he’s laid out for you.
Oh no, I concur that he was probably only slightly less of a bastard to his daughter than he is to his granddaughter, but I think he still thought of her as his daughter and probably thought he was doing the right thing.
Someone should remind Pvt Hughes that the only one who gets chewed out is him, by his CO. And then put him on PT until he dies of old age.
My thought process is the daughter was a bauble to him. And Ruth’s father was a thief who stole that bauble from him, far away from his plans for her. And that’s why he’s the villain.
Well, we know he slept with Billie’s mom in the Walkyverse so it’s very probable DaddyRuth was a scumbag. That doens’t mean anything Clint has done is justified or he’s not worse, though.
Exactly. He might have treated his daughter better than Ruth (or not), but it was still very likely his path, his plans, his decisions.
Even if Ruth’s father actually was a jerk, it’s also quite possible her mom latched on to him as a way of getting out of Clint’s control. Which just reinforces Clint’s need to keep control of Ruth.
Blech.
idk, now that ruth’s mom is dead she can be whoever he wants her to be
That’s also a thing.
Possible to salvage the relationship, but so not a priority. Priority is getting Ruth and Howie out from under his control.
After a decade or so out of his influence, they can decide whether it’s worth it to them. When they can interact more as equals. People change. Stranger things have happened.
But right now, it’s damage control. That relationship is the least important thing to be concerned about.
If he hates Ruth’s late father why is he bothering with Ruth? Is it simply that he knows he’ll lose Howard if he doesn’t pretend to have some feelings for her?
He apparently still holds his daughter in high esteem. It could be due to a warped sense of duty.
Probably more that Ruth (& Howard) represent his daughter’s legacy, hence why he still supports them despite his clear hatred of the fact that they are also his son-in-law’s legacy.
I’m starting to think Clint here took losing his daughter harder than Ruth and Howard took losing their mother. Doesn’t excuse his behavior in the slightest, but it takes some serious damage to warp someone’s view of their own family to that extent.
His utter vitriolic hatred for the man she married is a sure sign he didn’t really respect her though. He doesn’t give a damn that she loved him, anymore than he cares that he was the father of her children and his grandchildren.
I strongly doubt he kept that opinion to himself while they were alive, either. Granddick his clearly why they moved to Canada.
Um. Contempt for a person does not take away the desire to control that person.
Although it speaks well of both you and your family that you have to be told that.
Abusers work in messed up way regardless of how they feel. They’ll do things to harm them and establish the idea that they hold all the power, then they make a show of it by cutting off escape routes. This one puts effort into making it look like he cares about Ruth by going out of his way to secure a job for her, help her pay for her education, so that Ruth would be made to feel like she owed him, and to put “Everyone sees what a caring person I am for you, so they’ll never believe you if you try to get out of this situation.” Abusers may show preferential treatment to siblings for some reason. To excuse their abusive behavior, they set up a narrative where they claim one child is nothing but selfish, ungrateful, and horrible while the other can do no wrong. Maybe he holds them both with contempt and just decided Ruth was the easier target because she would keep silent about it as long as she could keep Howard from facing the same fate. Ruth’s emotional and mental distress makes her a target as well, seeing as he hated her father for his own.
It’s also possible that Howard acts more like their mother than Ruth does, and therefore Clint sees him as “surrogate child” while Ruth is “the last remnants of the man who took my daughter”. I don’t know how to write the second in-quotes to sound unsympathetic towards Clint. Goodness knows he doesn’t deserve it. Understanding perhaps, but NOT sympathy.
That’s what I thought. The narrative of “you’re just like the son-in-law I hate” pairs really nicely with “your brother is just like my daughter,” further explaining why Ruth may be getting worse treatment than Howie.
A key word is unfortunately “ownership”. He doesn’t LIKE his daughters choices, but he still OWNS the offspring. After all, Ruth’s job is an INVESTMENT.
Blaine and Ross had very much the same attitude.
Evil is treating people like things. – Granny Weatherwax
Hence why slavery, rape, and abuse are the three worst, most sinister evils in the world.
I know every time an abusive person shows up in this strip we have to deal with jerks in the comments all “Heaven forbid I think we might see something different than THIS tired old plot device again!” but I just want to say this comic is quite honestly the best depiction of the various incarnations of abuse, some unconscious and some deliberate, some blatant and some insidious, that I’ve ever seen handled in any medium. This can’t be easy to write, emotionally, and I’m so grateful that it exists and so sorry that Willis has to put up with all the jerks in the comments talking over the lived experiences of the writer and other readers to complain that it’s so unrealistic how many bad parents there are in the story.
I agree with you 100% on all counts.
If we get a parent who’s so uncaring that their response to being informed of a suicide attempt is ‘ignore it’ followed by ‘get angry when the person tells someone else because it makes them look bad’, we’ll have my Dad and Willis will have Abuser Bingo. Who do you think comes closest? Ethan? Danny?
We’re halfway there with Clint.
About 90%, I’d say. He’s upset about losing the job, not the suicide attempt, because it’s spoiling the path he’d laid out for her.
Hey, the week’s not over yet!
It’s really well done, yeah. And super therapeutic to see these sorts of plot lines played straight and handled with genuine respect to the subject matter.
+1000
and not just the abusive stuff; the stigma, too, of mental illness and neurodiversity and so on. Like when Dina stands up for her sexuality.
I also agree completely with this comment. This comic is just really, really well written.
agreed 500%.
YUP
This 100% this! Thank you David Willis, you are portraying this quite well.
Holy fucking shit. Oh my god. Oh my god. Dad has said that. Except it’s how I’m like my mother and… I think I’m gonna be sick. ANY FUCKING PERSON WHO THINKS VERBAL ABUSE ISN’T AS BAD AS PHYSICAL, READ THIS STRIP AND THEN KISS MY LILY WHITE ASS! Stop being a Chloe people. Start being a Billie. Listen and protect us god fucking damn it!!!
:<
You are a wonderful, valuable person in your own right. I've really appreciated getting to read your insights in the comment threads. You've given me a broader perspective and made me a better person.
I'm sorry to you and anyone else who's had to deal with this crap.
*appropriate gesture of support*
Oh wow. That’s so very sweet to say. Thank you for letting me know that I impacted you so much 🙂
Yeah, right now my level of rage at all the people over the past few strips who said we just neeeeeeeed to give Clint a chaaaaaaaance is well past Hulk rage and into something resembling a supernova. Fuck that.
Oh yes. All the people excusing his actions like I’ve heard countless times before. I imagine poor Willis had his work cut out for him deleting so many nasty comments not to mention seeing all the comments we never do because they are by first time posters.
I’ve lived through every type of abuse imaginable and the verbal abuse has had just as much effect as the physical and sexual and caused just as much lasting pain. I agree with you 100% and I’m sorry for all you’ve been through. *Supportive gesture of your choice*
I will take one hug please 🙂
Yes. I agree. I remember all the times I wanted my biological mother to hit me so I would know what she was doing was wrong, but she never did. She did try to kill me a few times but that was food related and easy enough to convince me that was an oops. The verbal never really goes away I don’t think.
*Hug* I can get what you mean, my father hit the trifecta, but my mother was always more verbally abusive and that made it harder to see what she was doing. I’m pretty sure none of it ever goes away, you just learn how to keep living and heal as best as you can.
*jedi hugs*
looks like there’s gonna be plenty of RBN triggers in the comic for a bit…
The force is strong with this one
I’ve often wondered if my parents were narcissist. At least that’s what I’m assuming you mean. My best friend was raised by a narcissistic mother who kept hurting her until last year when she went no contact. It’s been hard on her but it has helped her a lot and she’s not sick as often. I think my dad shows signs of it but I’m not sure being unable to be objective. My biological mother… I have no clue what her deal was but I doubt it was just one thing because boy was she a hot mess.
I am happy this is being brought up though even though it hurts. It’s shining a light on verbal abuse and how charming people find them. Billie recognizing the trouble Ruth is in and intervening actually helped my state of mind after seeing Chloe who acted just like most observers I’ve seen act.
Before someone decides to point it out, I and everyone like me understand that Ruth is not real, but real or not she is experiencing what a lot of us have. It brings up a lot of memories and feelings for us, so to trivialize what she is going through is to trivialize what we went through. We are raw right now from it and emotions are running high. If you don’t understand, imagine seeing a movie that hits you hard a while after someone you were close to died; rather it’s comics, movies, or music, good media has a way to pull the emotions out you thought weren’t there anymore.
I’m afraid that I have, from time to time, been tempted to remind people of the MST3K motto. But I see, in this case particularly, how much the events in the Dumbiverse resonate with the reality of some folks’ lives.
I’ll check my privilege a bit better if I can, and I’ll try to keep from being the “it’s only a comic” guy from now on.
*offers hugs*
*hugs accepted* I completely understand where you were coming from and I’m glad that I was able to help you understand why we react how we do to things like this. *gives extra comforting hugs*
*Appropriate gesture of support* You didn’t deserve that. Know you are awesome and loved and deserve so much better.
Thank you. It was so kind of you to say. Sometimes it’s hard to remember that I’m not the things they called me. I have 2 great friends I talk to daily who are more like family than the people who are alive and share my blood. I still love my dad and I think he loves me, but our relationship isn’t healthy.
Ditto. I’ve only recently realized that I’ve been scared of going back to school and assuming that it’s somehow a bad choice only because they used to berate me whenever I stated an interest in doing so.
Realizing that has made it easier to gather my application stuff, but there’s always a moment here and there where I get utterly paralyzed and I hear their voices saying it’s a dumb stupid idea.
Oooh, good luck going back to the school! Any ideas what for?
Masters of Ed and a Teaching Credential so I don’t just have to stick with Private Schools and so I can get out of the country easier in the future.
Excellent plan.
Also – I believe a number of Canadian institutions will accept an American teaching credential (depending on the teachable – you should be okay for math and science, as those are true no matter what country you’re teaching in).
You are a good teacher. You care about and support your students and expose a lot of them to a positive trans role model. Going back to school is a great idea. It will open you up to teach in more places and allow you to go to another country if push comes to shove. It’s worth it because you are worth it. Go part time if you need to. Even if you only enroll in one class, that’s one less class you have to take later. 🙂
Nobody can obtain the Master of Ed. Edward is his own master and cannot be restrained.
As someone going back to school for a teaching credential themself, I say go for it!
All the hugs. That is some unacceptable bullshit.
Thanks hun *shares the hugs*
*gesture of support, because I forgot if it was you who said you were a hugger in real life before* if that is the case then *hugs of support*
*gigantic reciprocation hug of thanks*
You have all my hugs.
Also sympathy rage – my heavy, heavy rage.
*shares hugs and calms rage*
…I am torn.
On one hand, I like rage. It’s the emotion I like to use to get shit done.
On the other, you’re adorable. *hugs*
So here’s my question to people that have dealt with real abuse situations: is it a good idea to get physically involved? whether to give the abuser a beatdown or just physically separate the victim?
It depends, it can endanger you or make it worse for them, but if it’s a public enough place and the proper steps are taken to get proof or if it’s life or death it can help. However, verbal involvement is usually the better option especially if you shout loudly enough to be heard and draw attention.
This. Usually de-escalation is the best bet. There’s a big movement right now called “you okay, sis” which is basically politely stepping in during an act of abuse and asking the person being abused if they are okay. Reminds the abuser that his actions are being seen and lets the survivor know others see something going on and that it’s not normal.
Still runs risks. Abusers tend to be real volatile and it takes very little to set them off and many love to plan “revenges” for home in response to being “publicly embarrassed”.
But it’s the current best practice for bystanders if you can handle it.
Definitely. I actually had someone do this for me, when I was being forced to have visitation with my father because my parents were divorcing at the same time as his assault trial was happening, it meant the world to me.
Not really, sadly. Much as I enjoy the spectacle of Dads getting sent to the Amazi-Girl Recovery Ward, 1. They’ll take it out on the abuse victim later, 2. someone who’s practiced violence for much of their life tends to get good at it, 3. the police always arrest for the retaliation but rarely for the instigation.
I should note that I’m talking about physical violence up there. Which, while I feel that it’s not just morally justifiable but a positive good in this case, it makes the situation worse. Intervening nonviolently tends to help.
Unfortunately there’s no one-size answer, every situation is different, but usually it’s bad to get in there physically. Don’t escalate situations if you can help it. It’s usually better to offer the victim support, such as walking them to a safe place to stay.
I wish someone had.
But until the then- stepfather’s final act, everything had been done away from other witnesses. Even our mother had doubts, not helped by his psychology degree which helped him explain why we kids would make up this stuff.
I’m as okay as anyone now, but it was tough when “real” family did not believe us.
Not experienced it myself but I wanted to chime in this important bit of information: The best predictor of the abuser’s response is the victim’s instincts.
So if the specific individual tells you it is a bad idea, it is a bad idea.
honestly like:
1) know that nothing that may or may not happen is your fault. everyone is responsible for their own actions, and whatever the abuser may say they are responsible for their own.
2) survive. whatever it is you need to do to survive, do that thing, because the end goal here is getting out in one piece as much as you can. if that is walking away, then that is perfectly acceptable. evaluate your risks, and do what you’ve got to do.
3) de-escalation, usually, is the best bet. sometimes this means cutting in, distracting, and modelling the behavior that you want to see. sometimes this means cutting in, distracting, and continuing the distraction, although that’s not going to be a method that lasts forever and the abuser will probably go back to their grievance. getting the victim out of the situation is a top priority for their own mental health; but this can be weighed against how likely the abuser is to lash out, whether getting out is even possible, what they do after they get out, etc. a lot of pieces in the puzzle.
4) change the paradigm. don’t make it about how ruth is troubling everyone; make it about how brave ruth is for continuing on despite struggling so much. you have as much control over the reality you live in as the abuser does, so make them work to meet you in your reality. don’t be afraid to push to get the things that you want. this works best if you are unfailingly polite and present everything as the most reasonable option. this is a form of positive gaslighting: you act as if they are a reasonable person, and then push the behavior you expect from a reasonable person. and if they want to interact with you they have to comply. but a lot of this requires cutting off abusive actions in the bud, which is really hard to do since none of us are psychic, as far as i know. also it depends on how much the abuser knows the technique of what they are doing.
but like usually it’s not a good thing to get physically aggressive, because if they’re the manipulative kind of abuser they’ll use it as an excuse to separate the victim from you. and then take it out on the victim later.
huh, I never considered there could be positive gaslighting
Yes, it’s possible. It is rarely thought of as such, but yes, it would be the exact same animal with a positive instead of negative goal.
idk like. to an extent, everyone lives in their own little realities and perceptions which is why it can be so hard to communicate with each other, sometimes. but gaslighting, essentially, is the enforcement of a particular view of reality by drowning out all the competition.
so i mean it’s a thing with a limited use – like, stating your opinion isn’t gaslighting. which tbh is usually as far as i ever go, i don’t have the stamina or the…interest to do anything more. but like you can create situations where not taking the positive approach is more against the abuser’s interests than not – i.e. an abuser won’t hit their victim in public because they know that the public will react forcefully. if you make it so that the consequences of verbally abusing, shaming and manipulating their victim in public are harmful to the abuser, then you put a strong limit on that behavior.
and, i mean, it’s pretty much impossible to actually gaslight without being abusive, even if you have good intentions. but like there’s a difference between enforcement of a particular view of reality as defense and enforcement of a particular view of reality as offense. the one sets in place, the other destroys.
At first I was disappointed Billie didn’t punch him harder, but on reflection, I kind of like this better. It must feel pretty demeaning for Clint, at the height of his (verbal) abuse, to have someone feel sorry for him. Like, that’s not how you talk to someone you feel is a physical threat.
I’d like to think that stings more than a real punch would.
YES. GOOD.
Ooo, I like that. I still kinda want Billie to break him in half, but I like that.
Ruth’s face on the last panel.
She went from “frightened” to “wait, Billie knows… SOMEONE ELSE KNOWS!”
I dunno, that looks less “SOMEONE ELSE KNOWS” and more “… Seriously? I’m getting verbally torn to shreds and manhandled here and you’re holding back on physically intervening because he’s a disabled veteran?”
Either way, props to Billie for doing something.
She’s not just holding back, she’s starting the interaction at the lowest possible level of violence. But look at the results. She’s created a space between Ruth and the man who loves to close the gap and physically loom over her. Suddenly, there’s a third person involved, and somehow I don’t think Billie will stay at that gentle level of engagement if he threatens her or Ruth.
Remember: alpha bongo, veteran of a social game where provoking someone to strike the first blow can be very useful.
I predict Billie’s strategy in this conversation is going to be much more effective (if less satisfying) than a straight beat-down.
Head cheerleader. Problem solver.
I’d say take his cane and shove it so far up his ass it pokes out his mouth, but he’d probably never feel it with the size of the stick residing in there.
On one hand, this implies Ruth’s dad was a lot worse than from Walkyverse.
On the other hand, dude, she’s not your son-in-law ease off.
Look at how he thinks of Ruth. So, Ruth’s dad must’ve been a generally okay person with some unfortunate mental problems.
We don’t know about Ruth’s dad. Maybe he’s a generally okay person with some mental problems; Clint’s attitude towards Ruth does a pretty good job demonstrating that he’d get hostile over that. Maybe Ruth’s dad was a terrible person who Clint hates for good reason.
Either way, Ruth’s dad and Ruth are two different people, and that makes Ruth’s dad’s character completely irrelevant to how Clint is treating Ruth. He could be worse than Clint, and that still wouldn’t make this okay.
I never said he did. But in my experience, people who abuse kids like this over something their parents did are usually wrong about the people they originally hated, and let their emotions get to them.
But we don’t know the exact details of what happened, so your point still stands.
From various tidbits, this has become my headcanon:
Clint verbally abused his daughter (who I am naming ‘Happy’, because she then becomes ‘Hap Less’), who later marries Rich Lessick (‘Dick Less’) to escape from him. Clint views this as the ‘theft’ of his daughter, whom he then begins to idolize as the ‘perfect daughter’. Later (brushing over what was likely a rocky and difficult relationship), Rich and Hap die, Clint becomes Ruth’s guardian, and the cycle of abuse began again.
We know, like, one thing about Ruth’s dad in the Walkyverse. How do you figure he was worse in this universe?
From what we know of Ruth’s perspective, I’d say that he was a good dad who had some form of depression. The only person that we know has ever abused Ruth is Clint, and Ruth told Billie that she started drinking as a way of dealing with the loss of her parents. Clint, who’s viewpoint I confidently say should not be trusted, is the only one who has ever implied that Ruth’s father had severe problems that interfered with his ability to be a father.
His head is shaped like a bean.
Or partly-popped corn.
Bean Grandpa, please go to Hell and don’t come back.
– Signed, every sane and reasonable person in the DoA comments.
Welp, was hoping for an antagonist more nuanced than “Evil White Man pathologically controlling the women in his life” but i guess that was too much to ask for. I guess there is some tragic quality here – guy lost a person he loved and channeled his grief into hatred for a surrogate of the man he sees as responsible for the loss. I know it’s just wishful thinking on my part, but eh, gift horses mouth and all that.
Then again, i know this exists. My stepdad compared me to my biodad like this between smacking me around. He only stopped when the surge of testosterone around puberty gave me enough bone and muscle to put him in a headlock in response. I feel for Ruth – biology won’t give her the tools to fight back like it did for me.
If you want nuanced antagonists, go read fantasy. Realism doesn’t have room for the myth that good people do bad things on purpose.
Sure they do. Compassionate, loving parents can cheat on their significant others. They will deceive their spouses into thinking their children are theirs when they know they are not. They will deny their ex-spouses visitation rights out of spite. Sell smack to other people’s kids so theirs have food on the table. There are plenty of good people with something weighing on their conscience.
Certainly not the norm (at least I hope not) but not out of the realm of possibility.
Sorry, I said “antagonist” when we both meant “villain”. A subtle but important distinction.
Anyone can be an antagonist. It takes a special kind of asshole to be a villain.
I admit I don’t agree with avistel’s complaint either, but…you think reality is only black and white and fantasy is the only place for gray? That’s…completely backwards. Reality is complicated and people are complicated, and personally, I go to fantasy because while I like nuance, which fantasy can capture well, I also like the simple black and white/good and evil where I don’t have to worry about the gray like in reality.
Although, here in this comic, I actually would say there’s nuance of a sort. Yes, we have all these terrible parents/people, but they each have their own motivations and backgrounds that make them the way they are. They’re not just blanket evil for the sake of evil. In fact, given that people seem to have decided Ross is still the worst dad, I think it’s interesting to note that he’s probably got the most claim to believing he’s a “good person doing bad things on purpose” since he seemed to know threatening people with a gun was wrong, but a personal risk/sacrifice he believed he had to make to “save” Becky, Carol seemed to have a similar perspective, and that’s not unrealistic either.
You want that story, there’s a billion places that sell it. There’s countless tales where the abusive parental figure is just so conflicted and had to do it because loss and pain and blah blah blah.
This is the story I need. The story played straight like it is in life. Where the justifications are ad hoc behind the real intention which is power and control and toxic ideas of what makes one a man.
Where we aren’t asked to sympathize with the abuser over humanizing his victim.
Absolutely! And between Blaine, Ross and this fucker we are able to see nuances. They act in slightly different ways, with slightly different fallouots. Clint is most like Blaine, but while Blaine was escorted out by Asma, Clint has an appointment with high officials of the school.
From what I remember of your posts, you have had a rather nasty experience with this side of society. Can’t say I blame you for that attitude.
What is it that makes it right for you? Seeing the abuser brought to justice, something that need not happen in real life? Or just the story itself being told as you’ve experienced it?
The latter. To see my experiences told. To not have that story end in “but the victim should have tried harder to see the good in him, because look at what a tortured soul he was”.
That’s something I don’t really get to see most anywhere else.
The fact that the stories also often end with escape and the abused finding their own form of an upper hand also is really really nice, because it’s nice to remember that their ghosts won’t always haunt me.
Reading something for a sense of hope and having your story told makes perfect sense to me.
I might roll my eyes and grumble that these characters are a bit Hallmark movie-ish at times, I’m not gonna stop reading it because for one reason or another I find this comic compelling enough to come see what happens next.
Yep, I’m right there with you, avistel. I was a little disappointed to find out that so many people could be absolutely sure of Clint’s character because ‘that’s how Willis writes this’, but it is still worth reading, for all that it is apparently unforgivably predictable.
Y’know, there are enough stories out there where the asshole shitstain person (usually an asshole shitstain while male person, because those are awarded the most nuanced storytelling in most media, still, in the year 2017) gets a redeeming quality to make the audience feel conflicted or whatever. I’m glad this doesn’t have that. Because it sure feels nice to just fucking hate a person who deserves to be hated.
… so there’s a cathartic element in it for you?
In this, sure, a little bit. But I just meant it more like.. it’s hard to explain, but it feels NICE that we’re getting the character we were ‘promised’, from the way Ruth talked about him, was afraid of him, etc. There is no fake-out here. She was scared as shit of him and has made that very clear and now we’re seeing him and we see that she was 100% right about him and that validates Ruth’s thoughts and feelings, which is something that is so SO needed in fiction. A girl says someone is an abuser. We see this guy being an abuser. This is GOOD. We’ve believed Ruth from the start, but it’s just good to see him in action and be the asshole we knew he was. Because that shit is RARE in fiction.
Idk, did that make sense? It’s 7am and I have barely slept, excuse me if I incoherently rambled :p
I think the last time there was character like Clint in the mainstream media was probably Robert Di Niero’s (god I hope I spelled his name right, I like a lot of his work) character in “Raging Bull” this completely unredeemable abusive piece of shit who was very real. It was the reaction of American audiences to this movie that led Martin Scorsese to claim that Americans no longer wanted “smart movies” or “tough movies” that were realistic portrayals of humans, but instead “easy movies” that had a guaranteed happy ending with a clear black and white morality. Sorry, my inner movie nerd is speaking.
honestly i think if he loved his daughter he wouldn’t be such a jerk to his granddaughter. it doesn’t take that much self-awareness to see how cruel this is. but like, even if he really truly loved his daughter – it doesn’t justify his behavior now. emotions don’t justify wrong behavior. someone can have all the gushy emotions they want but if they still run around berating the people around them for not fitting into their mold of what people should be they are not loving people and all the gushy emotions in the world won’t make up for that cruelty
idk it’s one thing to not know how to love someone; it’s another to go out of your way to rip somebody apart; it’s another to not be able to look at your own actions and evaluate them accordingly
I suspect it’s a ‘rose-colored glasses’ type of thing. I suspect he abused his daughter as he abuses Ruth. But later, she was ‘stolen’ from him by Ruth’s dad, and her absence made him idolize her – she COULDN’T have left voluntarily she loved him, it’s all that no-good thief of a father’s fault.
“Then again, i know this exists.”
Then why did you feel the need to complain about him being everything we all knew he was going to be ages ago?
This isn’t about Willis not writing with nuance, dude, it’s about you putting way too much energy in hoping he’s going to lie about abuse.
I mean, the fact than anyone who didn’t know Willis well enough to know exactly what Clint was going to be like was punished for it suggests that his writing is extremely predictable, regardless of the level of nuance used.
Only people who were being aggressively dismissive assholes have been punished so far.
Plenty of people thought Clint would turn out differently, as recently as yesterday, but they’re still here.
Or perhaps Willis nicely foreshadowed the nature of his character. That’s setting things up properly, not being predictable.
It was easy to predict Clint was an abuser because he’d already laid that out in bits of Ruth’s interaction with and comments about him. That’s not even prediction, that’s just what we’ve already been told. If he’s so predictable, what’s the actual resolution of this sequence? I certainly didn’t predict or expect Clint to show up and push Ruth back into the RA job, nor do I recall seeing that as a common prediction.
“punished for it”
By, what, having to become aware that abuse is a thing?
What’s the weather like on your planet?
Ohh, yes, it certainly takes a ton of energy for me to half-heartedly complain about the story not taking a twist I was hoping for. I know that Willis can write with nuance, Ruth is a perfect example of it, what with despite her abusive behavior towards Billie early on – up to and including fucking sexual assault not automatically making her a fucking werewolf who could not have acquired this psychopathology from her asshole granddad…
Know what? I don’t have to explain myself to you, kindly shove your condescension and your “dude” right up your ass.
Very minor quibble compared to the actual conversation here, but I’m pretty sure biology and practice have already given Ruth the physical strength to fight back. I think she could take Clint pretty easily — she beat Blaine, who doesn’t need a cane. It’s the emotional abuse that’s crushing her.
Man, this guy doesn’t deserve to be called Sir.
He doesn’t even deserve to be called “Sir”!
Just…””.
honestly i see that and i get flashbacks to bad bdsm porn on literotica
Oh, do you mean Fifty Shades of Gray?
i can’t read suddenly i dont know
I’ve been calling him Mr. Hughes ever since we learned of his surname.
But then that makes me think of Howard Hughes. He has been demoted to “he”.
It’s…HIM.
No. He’s completely horrible.
counterpoint: shut up
Billie, you need to learn not to do things halfway. Commit to your bad ideas!
In this case I’d agree, but in pretty much any other circumstances that is the exact opposite of what Billie needs to learn
Actually her move here was kind of brilliant in its own way. She interrupted the situation and supported Ruth, casually threw some shade at “Sir,” and didn’t get sent to prison for assault. All in all, a win for her and Ruth.
And I imagine the next few strips are going to end with a more complete and satisfying victory for her and Ruth than a straight beat-down would. Because Billie is an alpha bongo.
Hit him again! As hard as you can! Preferably in a soft, painful spot!
His service isn’t his pass on being human, it’s supposed to be his proof that he is and wants to save and protect fellow humans. I hate this: “He’s a soldier, he can be as shitty as he wants” bull.
Somebody get Billie a steel chair… and somebody throw a party to celebrate Ruth’s father, even if he sucked, just to spite Clint.
Also, sidenote: the Slipshine preview is adorable!
I mean, I’d distrust veterans MORE, because they’re tools of an imperialist state.
… This definitely won’t cause a fight!
Well, yeah, usually, but the idea of going out to protect your people’s freedom and maybe free an oppressed country while you’re out there does sound awful neat on paper.
I actually feel bad for soldiers who enlist with THAT idea in their head and then they either find out they’re murdering civilians for oil oligarchies or they deny reality and tell themselves they’re the true defenders of freedom
Not here for an argument. Mostly because of the quip. I like you’re humor. But rude.
*your
Dude, don’t. Most veterans I know are folks with no other means out of poverty than to take a job that comes with a giant wallop of PTSD. The vast majority of soldiers in the fields are there because they’d be starving otherwise and want a chance to have a better life.
It’s the rich smug assholes at home that send them to die for nothing but bullshit and oil.
An additional note, a disproportionate amount of the military is recruited from the traditionally “Southern states”, which are often already entirely reliant on the military-industry complex. Take, for example, a few years ago when congress voted to build hundreds of tanks that the army neither needed nor wanted. The reason it was brought up? A member of congress from West Virginia needed the tanks to be built so that their constituents would actually have jobs. It’s created a problem where for many states in the area need the federal government to have high military spending and constantly producing arms and material for soldiers through contracts with private companies, because otherwise what fragile economy they have will come collapsing down. And the only way such a system can be maintained is through perpetual war.
Thanks, Cerberus and Rukduk. I needed to hear those things.
Wow… I have underestimated Billie all this time. That was such a perfect deflection and deescalation.
She made sure to insert herself in the situation and stop the abuse, but she did so in a silly and inoffensive way. This will make it hard for him to get Ruth on their own and allow Ruth to get away from the actual situation. Anything Clint does now to escalate will make him look stupid.
She was obviously a more effective alpha bongo than I gave her credit for. Come to think of it, she used a similar tactic on a certain brother-in-spirits to “Sir”.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/eaten/
I had thought the same thing about that Family Weekend scene! Thank you for linking to it!
Unfortunately, she never attacked Ross, so she’s still waiting on that abusive-dad hat trick.
The important thing is she’s watching him, she recognizes his behavior is bad, she’s prepared to intervene, and he knows all of those things.
She’s made herself dangerous in a very specific way.
: 0
Nope.
Like maybe somebody can unpack this for you if Willis doesn’t delete your comment, I’m too tired for it right now, but rest assured, you don’t get to be disappointed in people because they got sick, you don’t get to tell people they are mostly made of shit, etc. When your brain says this to you, that you’re a disappointment for getting sick and/or unworthy, it is also not okay or true.
“Abuse is never right, but”
That ranks just below “I’m not racist, but” on the list of sentences that should probably not be finished.
“Abuse is never right, but nobody you or I know has been abused, that we know of, and all I asked was what you want on your half of the pizza.”
Huh. If you erase Ruth’s pupils in panel 3, she looks really badass. http://i.imgur.com/SXsZ8zf.png
I meant panel 4.
Haha I like it.
Do you understand what mental illness is? If you REALLY want to claim he has every right to be disappointed, fucking whatever, go for it. That’s a threshold I don’t even want to look at.
But do NOT defend verbal and what looks like to be the onset of physical abuse (he may have physically abused her when she was younger, but the hands on the wrists? Billy should have laid him out THERE). There is no excuse.
As someone who’s been to the psych ward twice for depression and suicide, I think I do know what mental illness is
Yeah, at this point, I’ll just go ahead and assume you’re lying to make the other comment look somewhat less horrible.
Assume all you want. That won’t make my scars less visible.
C’mon, Norton, don’t do that. ADHDTV can easily have been depressed at some point and still not see the problems with their argument.
Joyce is a bad influence on Billie … never expected to say that.
If Ruth takes after their father, then her brother must take after their mother…think about that.
Ruth’s mom really likes Game of Thrones?
I get the impression that Howie is more like collateral; Sir abuses him less, as long as Ruth stays in line.
*drops anti-demon ballistic missile* Dang it! I have to go get a bigger weapon again!
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah sorry but I’ve seen this kind of behavior before. Never experienced it, but I’ve seen it.
Meanwhile, Bernie Wrightson died yesterday.
And that’s real sad, but I don’t see why you keep bringing it up.
Wow, what a fucking idiot. That remark in panel 3 is actually quite disrespectful to Ruth’s mother. Sure, Clint. Her father was the ONLY one who found immortality through Ruth, because you didn’t like him, so that’s all you can fucking see. Never fucking mind the fact that a child is a combination of BOTH parents, no, let’s just completely disregard that. Ruth absolutely did not deserve to lose her mother, just to be clear. Clint, however, deserved to lose his daughter, and he honestly has no right to be upset about her death in the first place.
I hadn’t thought about it like that. You have revealed new depths of asshole to this already fully-fledged asshole. He’s an asshole tesseract.
And what’s more, Mr. Lessick may very well have had depression as well, and Ruth’s mother could have been the one to pull him out of the darkness and supported him thru every moment he felt horrible and worthless. But Clint couldn’t see that, oh no, to him the man his daughter fell in love with and married was a spineless weaklong undeserving of her.
Assuming the pattern holds and it likely does: Mr Lessick, whatever his flaws, was Ruth’s mother’s break with the path Clint had ordained for her. And very likely a way of getting out from under his control.
A weeklong weakling?
We really should petition to have an edit button put in… (- _ – );
Willis tried that once but it broke the formatting. And don’t anybody say the d-word, that is the last thing anyone needs right now.
We don’t bring that THING up in this comment section, how dare you.
Was it really that bad…? O~o
Also, what d-word did I say that was wrong earlier?
The comment system on Shortpacked had a name that started with a d, and it was horrible for Willis to moderate. Offering it as a suggestion is a good way to earn Willis’ mild ire.
I bet you the reason he talks like this is because appearance-wise, Ruth and Howard both took after their father. I haven’t been able to find any pictures of him in color, but if he was Irish and that’s where their red hair and freckles come from… yeah. It would also mean Howie is also a target, even if it’s to a lesser degree than Ruth.
Lessick doesn’t sound very Irish, but it could have been from the maternal side (Ruth’s paternal grandmother, that is).
I think it would be understandable if he was disappointed. You know, the same way that it’s understandable that your heroin addict brother would steal your jewelry to buy a couple pounds of heroin and shoot up. It would be a flaw, a problem that hopefully could be fixed. I don’t think Clint has “the right” to be disappointed though. Just because Clint doesn’t consider suicidal depression to be a big deal doesn’t mean it isn’t, or that responsible people shouldn’t try to disabuse him of that notion.
Well it obviously is a big deal to him considering how it somehow affected her daughter and his son in law. HE’s projecting onto Ruth, which is bad. He’s being ignorant, which is bad. It just looks like he doesn’t know how to deal with Ruth’s condition. Lots of people are ignorant. It never felt like anyone really understood how depressed I was when I was younger. Sometimes you realize how lucky some other are for not being able to empathize. People here act as if he wants Ruth to fail, but nobody pulls strings for people they despise.
You have a lot to learn about reasonable vs unreasonable behaviour. Maybe start with a book on Boundaries. (someday I’ve got to figure out exactly which parts of which books/articles taught me the important things…)
also, “nobody pulls strings for people they despise.” is false.
Yeah, people being ignorant and not understanding mental illness are also why women got burned as witches. They don’t deserve a “oops, they didn’t know any better” either.
Clint doesn’t just “not understand depression”. He is a fucking abysmal, abusive failure as a parent even before you take Ruth’s depression and dead parents into account.
This goes beyond ignorance. This is actively malicious. There is no excuse for treating someone this way.
Regarding your last line…..they do. They do it all the time. Pulling strings gives you a means to control them, or creates a debt (or an illusion of debt) and provides fuel for a good old fashioned guilt trip or berating.
i’m very curious about ruth’s parents. i have so many questions. but i also am having trouble verbalizing them so for now i will just say: wwwwwww you go billie
He has every right to be disappointed, sure.
But that wasn’t disappointment.
That was abuse.
He doesn’t even have a right to be disappointed, because frankly, being disappointed in someone for clinical depression is about as stupid as being disappointed in them for losing a leg in an accident they had no control over.
What he has is the responsibility and duty to be concerned for Ruth, and being it for Ruth’s sake, not his own!
Fuck off. There is never ANY excuse for treating a fellow human being like that. There is no excuse for treating an ANIMAL like that. Fuck. Off.
Goddammit I almost thought we might have one parental figure that doesn’t suck.
Well, Mr. Brown is alright I guess.
What about Dorothy’s parents?
I do not recall Dina’s parental units sucking, I believe they are cool. Am I incorrect?
Well, Dina called to tell them she had a girlfriend, and within a few moments, without any judgement, they wired her $200 to take Becky out somewhere nice. They’re clearly the most abusive parents in the entire comic.
They are like…super cool. They sent Dina money to take her girlfriend out on a date when they were told about it, if I remember correctly.
I mean the worst thing they did was accidentally insist that Blaine wait inside the dormroom for his daughter, because they did not realize what a horrible monster he was at the time and Dina was unable to keep them from doing so. So a bit of naivety and trying to be polite?
Plus, as soon as they realized what they’d done, Mama Saruyama’s first reaction was to apologize to Amber for not understanding the situation.
A list of parental units we know who do not suck from the main cast page (not even counting folks like Sierra’s parents, who rock)
– Hank Brown
– Deborah Keener
– Jeramiah Keener
– Stacey O’Malley
– Ryou Saruyama
– Haruka Saruyama
– Bonnie MacIntyre
– Harriet Warner
– George Warner
– Mr. Rutten
– Mrs. Rutten
We haven’t met Jacob’s parents and we don’t know Marcie’s current relationship with them, but Jacob’s are implied to be positive and Marcie seems to get along with them (at least, she did as a child, and she currently worries about their being deported). Roz and Joe don’t seem to have any outstanding unhealthy dynamics with their parents, and so we can freely offer them the benefit of the doubt until they actually show up or their children disclose more about their relationship. We can also offer Sarah’s a benefit of the doubt for now, although some of her statements imply their relationship is far less healthy. It’s possible that will be due to personality clashes/misreading each other/misreading a situation, though, rather than any wrongdoing on either party, so I’m okay giving them a benefit of the doubt, although I’d put them at an ‘orange’ on the ‘green-yellow-orange-red’ scale, because a couple of her statements read like red flags to me. If you want to count ‘potentially parental family figures’ though, she had her Nana she seems to have gotten along with (although, if I’m correct, the implication is that she’s deceased). If you want to count deceased parents, we know nothing about Ruth’s parents unless you want to trust Clint who we know is trying to berate Ruth right now, and so I’m taking it with a grain of salt.
In comparison, we have 12 parents who are definitely bad.
– Carol Brown
– Linda Walkerton
– Charles Walkerton (who a LOT OF PEOPLE seem to forget, but like fuck am I letting him off the hook for his shit)
– Blaine O’Malley
– Sharon Wilcox
– Randall Wilcox
– Mr. Billingsworth
– Mrs. Billingsworth
– Naomi Siegal
– Saul Siegal
– Ross MacIntyre
– Clint Hughes
I get that it seems like a lot – bad parents make good plots. But there are far more confirmed good eggs here than confirmed bad ones, plus a few that have yet to be cracked open.
* Confirmed and IMPLIED good ones (or at least, not toxic ones).
I don’t know… Amber’s mom kind of ditched her for a booty call. 😛
A) She delayed seeing her until later, she did not cancel on her, and Amber didn’t seem too broken up about that. She met up with her to go for dinner.
B) She had no way of knowing Blaine would show up – especially as its heavily implied he wasn’t an approved family member and therefore not allowed in the building.
C) She risked being murdered by her violent ex husband to leave and get Amber away from him and then she raised Amber on her own.
D) She’s definitely been in need of a positive sex experience.
I’m pretty comfortable putting Stacey on the good list.
At least the “positive sex experience” wasn’t with Jacob this time.
Ew, yes, please don’t bang barely legal folks, Stacy!
I’d say Joe’s dad is at least a bad example for Joe, who seems to have learned the worst aspects of his behavior from him. Not abusive, but a womanizer and where Joe learned his take on women and consent.
The divorce was also apparently nasty enough to have left some serious scars.
Oh yeah, Richard’s a terrible role model, but he and Joe don’t seem to have a toxic or abusive relationship (although Joe wishes he’d tone down his shit).
Divorce often does, though that doesn’t make either of their relationships with Joe unhealthy or abusive.
If we’re doing a ‘green-yellow-orange-red’ scale, they’re like a yellow – not perfect, but not actively hurting Joe either in their relationship with him.
I mean, if you listen to Cerberus and Norton’s podcast, I would argue that Joe is worse off for Richard’s parenting, but I wouldn’t qualify it as abusive so much as negligent and passing along negative character traits. Whether that is a significant distinction, I cannot judge.
I’d just say that’s being a terrible role model, not necessarily a terrible dad to Joe.
When did you think that because the literally first time the existence of Ruth’s grandpa was brought up we learned he was an abusive fucknugget
Now THIS is how you do exposition. Well done.
We now have a taste of what he has been saying to Ruth for a large portion of her life. He has made it a point to make her feel like a defect and say that her father was unworthy of the woman who loved him. And to top it off he doesn’t have a modicum of concern that Ruth was in such a drastic emergency situation. I don’t care what dollar amount he’s given to the college. He does NOT deserve any sympathy. And no one should try to be encouraging people to “see it from his perspective” because abusers justify the things they do to people no matter how horrible. He thinks he has a right to do this to Ruth even though he knows perfectly well it is wrong. He doesn’t care. And it spits in the face of people who have been in Ruth’s place to say “He has a right to be upset because of Ruth’s actions.” Because that narrative is what abusers count on from other people so they can keep their victims under their thumb.
Look at it this way, it’s not how you feel that makes you a terrible person, it’s how you act. He could be disappointed and you might sympathize with that, but he COULD react to that feeling by being supportive and finding different ways to actually help her so that his ‘investment’ wouldn’t go to waste. Instead, he reacts abusively. And that is exactly what does make him ‘completely horrible.’
Like, if my friend was supposed to help me move but they got a cold and can’t, it’s reasonable for me to be disappointed and maybe even I won’t be able to help myself from being a little irritated that I now have to move all my stuff myself. But I’m not going to go break all of my friend’s stuff and scream at them for daring to get a cold. I’m going to bring them chicken soup and cheer them up so they get better faster. And then they can help me move next weekend.
Man, thank god SOMEBODY finally had the sense to ladle verbal abuse on the suicidally depressed person.
I know, right? That’s all we ever really want in the first place, and Clint is a damn hero for stepping up.
Thank you for your service, Mr Hughes!
So much awful in this man, I hope he gets a cerebral aneurysm.
As someone who lost his big brother to one of those? Please don’t. It’s just right up there with wishing cancer on someone.
Oh dear. I’m sorry. I imagine your brother didn’t deserve that.
………………………..
NOBODY. DESERVES. THAT.
I hope that you are now in or can find a better mental space where you no longer are angry at yourself for your depression. I too know that feeling, and it’s a nasty spiral to be in.
That said, there’s a major difference between psychologically beating up on yourself and someone else doing that.
“there’s a major difference between psychologically beating up on yourself and someone else doing that.”
ehh… I’m gonna partly disagree with that. emotional abuse is just as nasty when it’s coming from inside your own head – and a lot harder to evict. :/ Abuse is abuse, regardless of the source or target.
That’s something I’ll agree with.
A very good point. That said, I’m much more understanding of someone struggling with that sort of internal emotional abuse than someone who’s treating another person that way.
Clint’s pivot to Full Abuse Mode is visible in yesterday’s last frame: his affable smile disappears; he turns to steel and stone. Ruth sees this, knows what’s coming, and enlarges her frown. It’s a suspended moment before the rage erupts a second later in in-world time. Binge readers from now on won’t see the day-long gap we just experienced.
Clint has a slightly different style from Blaine, but maybe he’s just had more practice :-(.
Apparently he assumed no one would be in the hall. Bad move on his part.
I imagine he had lots of practice with his daughter. Whom I’ve named ‘Happy’. For obvious reasons.
He’s not completely horrible! He lots of parts, organs and tissues, that are probably just fine. It’s only his brain, and what it telling his vocal folds and arms do, that is being completely monstrous what the heck why would anyone imagine otherwise
Even if the problem weren’t a mental illness, he’s telling her that her father was worthless and she embodies that. Nobody should ever treat another person that way. I’m very sorry for anything that might have happened to make you think that’s anywhere in the pale for a guardian.
What are the odds he’s an organ donor, do you suppose?
Very low. He’s probably got some sort of twisted social Darwinist explanation for it as well.
Eh, his explanation isn’t super important, so long as a doctor can “accidentally and tragically” fail to provide him with proper treatment, leading to his death and subsequent organ harvesting.
…so, poll: I definitely initially read Billie’s “you have a cane” as implying “and you could hit me back with it” as opposed to what I’ve just realized is probably the intended implication, “and therefore are an old and frail person”. But my boyfriend interpreted it the same way I did at first.
So, which did you come up with first?
Both. He could be frail and still have the oomph to whack someone with a cane.
The second one, definitely.
I thought “and therefore are an old and frail person,” but my brain kind of suspended processing until I read the whole speech bubble (Billie says “elderly, handicapped veteran” further along).
As an elderly veteran who uses a cane when walking outdoors I say “Hit the guy where it hurts” when you see someone being abusive in public. If they are verbally abusive in public they are more than likely physically abusive in private where they can’t be seen. And forget the “veteran” BS being a pass for bad behavior.
I also initially understood it as the first one.
I present a third option: “That cane means there is no way that anyone will believe you were hurting Ruth if I beat the shit outta you.”
That seems like a variation on the old and frail option.
Clint “New Hickory” Lessick!
Hughes. Lessick was her father’s name, Clint is her mother’s father.
Dammit! *repaint’s the banner*
“Clint “New Hickory”
Lessick!Hughes!Old and frail person. Because that is the ‘nice’ reading and I tend to give characters I like and care about the benefit of the doubt at first, always. It’s kinda instinct for me. That’s why I’m always especially heart-broken when my favorite characters do shitty things.
Like Chloe? I used to like her quite a bit…
I was already thinking about ‘can Billie beat him in a fight’ before this strip and came to the conclusion of ‘he literally needs a cane there would be nothing easier and less dignified’. So… yeah. Not so much ‘old and frail’ as ‘disabled and an easy target’.
If she does, she should at least preface it with, “Before I begin, I would like to state for the record that this in no way reflects my views on the differently-abled.”</oots>
Second.
This is an interesting duality. Thanks for bringing it up.
He’s literally Hitler, so punch away.
…he’s not.
like, he’s an awful abusive shit sandwich, but he has not attempted genocide
can we not
PLEASE don’t use the word ‘literally’ that way, PM. Just, don’t.
Sense 2.
Right there with you, Dean.
Pablo, just because people can does not mean people should. The whole purpose of language is communication, and assigning antonymic meanings to the same word is just dumb.
Language evolves.
I wonder whether the car crash that killed Ruth’s parents actually happened because her father was drunk, and not because of an anonymous “drunk driver” they happened to collide with.
On one hand, it would explain Clint’s anger at Ruth’s father (but in ABSOLUTELY NO WAY excuse his abuse of her). On the other hand, Ruth didn’t seem to think that was the case, and I doubt Clint would miss the opportunity to use a fact like that to torment Ruth even further.
Yeah, I was thinking that suicide was a possibility. With that comes the likelihood of a repressed guilt reaction on Clint’s part: He killed his little girl… No… No, that isn’t possible. It isn’t possible that he was so violently critical of (and possibly physically abusive about) her life choices that he drove her to suicide! No, no it must all be his son-in-law’s fault! Ugh! That girl looks and acts so much like him…!
The problem is that the psychology that Clint’s whole life taught him to have about dealing with mistakes and problems makes it very unlikely that he could ever consciously admit his own culpability. So, the transfer of blame continues and probably will get ever more violent to the point where I genuinely worry for Howie’s physical safety.
I feel like it probably happened when they drove into the way of a truck to save some drunk drivers.
And no regrets were had.
They lived with integrity.
Ruth, headbutt. Or you know, femurs. With him having a cane his femurs must be more vulnerable than most.
Her brother still lives with him and they are both financially dependent on him
I mean, they might NOT be if he dies and leaves them money in the will, but I bet the whole “femurs” thing is enough of a trademark that it’d probably be recognized. And nobody wants the slayer exception. That’s bad for everyone.
On behalf of Onion Fury:
NOT HARD ENOUGH!
You know, Billie? A sounder tactic than assault would have been to pull out your phone and record this jackoff pulling this bullshit.
“Hugh Mungous WHAT?”
…holy shit that’s a good idea )=
Well, I mean, who even thinks of that kind of thing? It’s not like she’s a cop or a jour-
Wait a minute…
THANK YOU.
In this day and age, I still do not understand how people who expect to be in bad situations do not set their phones to record as a matter of precaution.
UGH.
On the one hand, it’s a good thing Billie didn’t actually punch the guy who’s implied to have bribed the school to keep Ruth on as an RA, because that kind of person could make her life hell. On the other, I want to see Clint’s face cartoonishly crumpled around a fist, because fuck him and everyone like him.
At this point, she’s basically got neither the satisfaction of that nor the safety of not having tried.
You can’t paint such a vivid picture of evil without having seen it firsthand.
… I’ve never been more proud of Billie, for her kindness, her love, and her bravery, than I am now. <3 She EARNED the Hufflepuff colors she's wearing today. (Unless that's dark blue? It looks black.)
Also Mr. Hughes makes me want to puke. HIT HIM AGAIN, BILLIE, HE'S A SOLDIER, HE CAN TAKE IT, JUST DO IT!!!
As a proud Hufflepuff myself, I see what you mean, but I’d probably sort Billie into Gryffindor (learning to stand up for yourself, bravery in the face of adversity, being broken but pushing through and also the secondary Gryffindor things like attention-grabbing personality, charisma, confidence and a tendency to get into trouble).
Ruth is a Slytherin, for the record (selectively loyal, smart, secretive, calm, dangerous (in good & bad ways) and just the cool af Slytherin swagger – I love Slytherins, so these are all non-judgemental^^).
…… I think about this too much, I know lol, but sorting fictional characters into Hogwarts Houses *may* be my literal favorite thing to do in the world, so I apologize for this excessive comment :p
You seem to have a good grasp of the subject, so maybe you could answer this one. Why was a dumb, moody asshole like Ron sorted into the Kool Kidz Klub?
Moody I will give you, but ‘dumb’ is something I will not let stand about my baby Ron Weasley tbh. Sure, he isn’t book smart. But he’s instinctive and witty in a sarcastic way. He is great at Wizards Chess too, so he can’t be all that stupid 😉
He’s a Gryffindor because he is a GREAT friend. He’s supportive – even to the stupid shit Harry does – and he’s a fierce defender of things that are right and good. Sure, he’s moody, you are not wrong. He overreacts. But he’s a teenager. Harry is much, *much* worse in terms of being incredibly teenager-y annoying. (I love Harry too, but jfc he is a challenge sometimes lol). Ron has a good, pure heart. And he is attracted to goodness in other people. He’s also a balanced mix of selfish and selfless, which is a very Gryffindor thing to be. And, y’know, ‘bravery’ is such a Gryffindor buzzword, but he has that too! In his first year at Hogwarts he fights a troll to save Hermione, sacrifices himself on the Wizards Chess board and is generally the best friend to Harry that Harry has ever had.
I have a lot of Ron Weasley feelings and you were not prepared. I apoogize lol.
(also, Gryffindor is not the only cool kids club. All houses are cool. Just for different reasons :D)
Also, even if he weren’t, the Sorting Hat sorts you based on your values, not your personality. Ron values bravery, valour, and chivalry (in the sense of ‘strong sense of morality and sticking by it’, which is the sense I believe is the one intended for Gryffindor).
Which makes it even stranger that Hermione wasn’t in Ravenclaw and didn’t go on fun adventures with Cho Chang and Luna Lovegood and eventually settle into a triad with them (after Luna Lovegood comes out as genderfluid) and then become head of Human-Muggle Relations and a scientist on the side and Cho Chang plays Quidditch professionally and listen I need this okay?
Hermione made it fairly clear early in the series, actually – she said while she loves books and cleverness, she considered friendship and bravery more important. Friendship’s not really a trait for any of the houses, but bravery is pretty solidly Gryffindor.
I can definitely live with that triad though.
Hermione was almost a Hatstall (where the hat can’t decide, McGonagall was one too) between Gryffindor and Ravenclaw. But the Gryffindor decision was ultimately made, I think, because Hermione deep down is a hero. An action-y, brave, glorious hero. And not just one who hides behind her books. Not that she couldn’t have been a hero in Ravenclaw, but she’d have been a different sort of hero.
And like BBCC said, she places more value on being a good person and fight for what is right, stand up for the underdog. The Gryffindor is actually pretty strong in her.
I dig your headcanon about this triad though. That could still happen even if Hermione is a Gryffindor. House Unity ftw 😉
Values inform personality though and vice versa. There is a whole culture around personality types and their correlation to Hogwarts Houses, I am deep into that, so I can’t really seperate those things anymore lol.
The Sorting Hat also famously takes into consideration what House you want and what you see yourself as, and considering Ron’t entire family are Gryffindors, that for sure also plays a part. He’s not gonna wanna be the ONE Weasley who didn’t end up as a Gryffindor.
It can, easily, but it seems like when the Hat is weighing things, values come before personality (hence why Neville got into Gryffindor despite being personally suited for and desiring to be a Hufflepuff – because he valued being brave and nerve and chivalry). When there’s a fairly strong correlation, it doesn’t bother me, but it does matter to consider values as well.
And of course it does! What better way to determine values than a person honestly requesting a specific house? (Note: It still seems to determine values as more important than just ‘this house seems cool/like a good fit for me/etc’ hence why Neville got into Gryffindor).
Now I’m curious – how would you sort the DoA kids?
Oh I feel like I have prepared all my life for this question 😀
Gryffindor: Billie, Walky. Sal, Becky, Roz, Marcie
Ravenclaw: Dorothy (she has a big Slytherin side too tho!), Dina, Ethan, Sarah
Hufflepuff: Joyce, Danny, Jacob, Amber (with the caveat that AG is basically a Death Eater) (also, not main cast: Leslie, Jocelyne)
Slytherin: Ruth, Mike, Carla, Joe, Malaya
I refuse to sort Mary. She’s a Squib.
Ooooh, I like this! I can see a good argument for Dorothy being a Hufflepuff actually, with how much she values hard work and loyalty, but I also really like her in Ravenclaw. I have no actual objections here – a couple I might sort elsewhere, but I think I can understand where you’re coming from with all your choices.
Mary’d probably be a Slytherin or maybe an asshole Ravenclaw (since she values creativity).
Thank you, I’m not here for people talking shit about my boy Ron.
Right? High-five for Ron love 🙂
alternatively billie, you can hit chloe too. way harder than that
Chloe may be a poor judge of character, inattentive, and something of a slacker, but I don’t think that warrants physical violence beyond a dope slap.
a dope slap is still harder than billie’s punch here 😛
I dunno, Billie has a tendency to make things pretty hard.
It’s not often one sees so many double entendres in so short a sentence.
My font is small on this phone. I read that initially as “doable entendres.” Speaking of Joe, where has he got to?
I’m just done with this shit. Like, what do these fuckers need to do before people stop humanizing them over their victims literally cowering in fear before their onslaught of abuse?
Literal murder, maybe?
it’s weird b/c like i feel like humanizing them is sort of a self-protective measure – if they’re not that bad then you were never in that much danger, it’s fine, you’re fine, there’s nothing to worry about. which is – denial – which is – unfair to the victims. but like attuning yourself to that empathy is super important to survive that kind of abuse, i think, which is why base reaction seems to be to side with the abuser so you don’t become the next target: which is obviously not true in all cases, but does take a concentrated effort to unpack and manage.
Ugh.
Ok, I laughed at the end. That was really funny despite the awfulness from Clint. Damn guy’s got issues.
And go Billie! Though given Ruth’s destroyed her before, and this is essentially the father of where Ruth’s mean tough streak comes from, well… it was nice knowing you Billie.
Well Clint, given that Ruth’s mom left you, and kept her kids as far away from your influence as possible until her untimely death, I’d say that Ruth has much more of her mother in her than you give her credit for. Also, something to consider; no matter how much you hate the late Mr. Lessnick, no matter how bad you make him seem, he’s the one your daughter chose. Life with him was always going to be better to her than any life that included you in any way shape or form. And from what little we know, it seems that despite his issues, Ruth’s dad was something you never where and never could be: a good father. So that son-in-law that you despise so much? He was better than you. No matter how low you may think he was, you’re lower. You’re nothing but a man who’s own family rejected him. An old, angry man, most likely in the last years of his life who will die alone, unloved, and unmourned. A man so horrid, no one will ever miss.
“I don’t think it’s completely horrible”
it doesnt matter if he thinks she took it for granted. he made her feel like shit for existing, for being her parents’ daughter.
i’ve lost count of how many times i used to humanize my own dad because he has depression from losing a job, his sister and his granddad. i used to think it was my fault, that because i was born, that my mom wasn’t able to divorce my dad and escape from him. voices in my head used to bombard me with guilt trips about how i’m ungrateful when i tried to regain control with stopping my dad from abusing my mom.
you say “abuse is never right”, but my voices are so similar to what you just said. my voices humanized my dad, made me empathise with his feelings, and therefore blocked me from interfering, from saving my mom.
Also, she did the exact opposite of taking it for granted – she didn’t expect him to do it at all. Ruth was confident she was getting fired. She did not want or expect any support. “Taking for granted” is the exact opposite of that.
Ugh.
I was waiting for this. From the first panel he actually appeared in I said that if this was his “Nice” act then I was deeply afraid of what he’d be like when he had her alone. (and by the by anyone who was pretending there weren’t any red flags in that strip can fuck right off.)
I still wasn’t prepared for how awful he is here. He is vicious and I am so Relieved that Billy is here to intervene.
Man, I liked Clint back in Shortpacked.
“Watching a character suffer” yeah she only started suffering today. Its not like she was clearly afraid the whole way through. Also wow you only saw foreshadowing in that comic? I saw foreshadowing in the Scene were his phone call showed her reacting with fear to a phone call from him and then bing drinking afterwords. Funny how you criticize others way of reading the comic but have zero reading comprehension yourself.
And I’m so sorry people reacted emotionally to the way the comic is written. Because he’s clearly presented as threat and an abuser from the first panel he appears in. I’m sorry that you couldn’t pick up on that but that’s hardly OUR fault. Maybe if you don’t want to see others responses to the comic you shouldn’t read a comments section.
This was meant as a reply to someone who’s comment got deleted.
Comic Reactions:
… I’m sorry if I’m a little… off tonight. Last night my fiancee was put under a 5150 and I didn’t even find out what happened until tonight nor even if they were alive and well until this afternoon. It’s been a really really raw day for me and I’ve kind of cried my eyes sore.
Panels 1-2: Fuck. Like, the dead blacknessof Ruth’s eyes, her stunned silence, her grabbing her wrists violently like that, restraining her, tipping her back to the point where she’s ready to fall without his intervention, but still trying to pull back from the center of his rage. That frown burying deep into her face as she passively absobs his free-flowing hate.
That is a place I have been. Silent so as not to set off worse from the person spewing forth a volcano of hate. And fuck, where he goes? It’s right for the fucking jugular. We know that Ruth’s parents are like the sorest position she has, so of course now that she’s disappointed him by being a human who responds humanly to his constant unending abuse, he goes in for the kill on that, shit-talking her father, saying there is no real connection to her mother.
Pissing on their memories all to make a 19-year old? 20-year-old shrink in fear? It’s petty heartless abuse, intended simply to wound for the sake of wounding.
Panel 3: I’m going to lay this out here and this is pure speculation, but I absolutely think he abused his daughter just as much as he’s abusing his granddaughter and that’s why she and Ruth’s dad lived in Canada a fair distance away from him.
And the reason I think this is because of the violent hatred of Ruth’s mom’s choice and how we’ve seen him react in rage to anytime he nearly doesn’t get his way.
And also because of the violent hatred of the dad. Abusers loathe folks who help get their victims away from them. Especially if they are better than them. Listen to an abusive ex-husband and it’s only a matter of time before they start whining about what a “weak pussy” the new man is and how choosing him was the worst choice of their former partner’s life.
And also because of what he loathes in Ruth. What is his proof that she’s only got her dad in her? She tried to push back against him and didn’t just go “yes, sir” “no,sir”. She tried to speak up for her own agency.
And yeah, again, twisting the knife in on her family, specifically referencing their deaths, slamming her dad for “mental health” which… given Ruth’s mental health stuff is depression and that’s seen as a fair comparison, I’m going to guess that is something her dad struggled with as well, claiming her parent’s marriage was a mistake.
This is revenge. This is making her pay the price for daring to embarrass him by nearly dying and ruining his nice clean plan for her.
And… this type of rant, it’s one I remember well over the phone. The ones where you are expected to sit and absorb, lest you be “the problem child” while they jab and stab at every vulnerability you were ever foolish enough to let them know about. My uncle had a lot of calls like this after I blocked my dad’s number and so my dad started working hard on him.
Just streams of hate until one day I screamed myself hoarse back at him. I was then the “ungrateful shitty kid”, but it at least bought me a solid month of no more hate calls.
So yeah, tl;dr fuck this guy.
(offers hugs) I hope your fiancee is alright. it’s always important to take care of yourself. take as much time as you need.
*accepts*
5150?
… *googles*
…. holy crap. How bad is it?
(If you don’t mind sharing, of course.)
They’re… alive. But they’ve got a lot of bruising and marks and they’re pretty shaken up. But the important part is they’re alive and that’s what matters most right now.
*all the hugs you’re willing to accept*
*sends laundry-folding vibes*
good.
-sets out brownies-
(as many hugs as I can give)
Oof. That sounds really rough 🙁
I hope your fiance is gonna be okay. And also that your dad has recurring, vivid nightmares where is butthole grows teeth and slowly devours the rest of his body.
Any and all hugs offered
*accepts and hopefully also accepts your hope for my dad*
**offers cookies, tea, and a blanket fort**
Hope things improve for you, and yes, fuck Clint and everyone like him.
*makes comforter cocoon in blanket fort and munches*
*puts on soothing music and nature sounds*
I had to look up what a 5150 is, but uh, hopefully your fiancee is doing okay? And that things are as okay on your end as possible as well.
I don’t really want to assume anything about the situation or whether there was actual cause or not, since I don’t know any of the factors, but I know what its like to be in a situation where basically crying till you feel like you can’t anymore is the end result. So even if the specific circumstances are different, I can’t help but wish that other people didn’t have times in their lives like that.
*appropriate gesture of support, or at least comfort*
Thanks.
I think things are mostly stabilized for them, but I’m really raw and drained and not looking forward to going back to my hellpit of a workplace tomorrow as I’m not going to have enough of a filter to hide my emotions.
*knock on wood* about that stabilized comment. Really don’t need irony fucking me and them on that right now.
Oh my god sweetheart! I’m so sorry. My god. They didn’t even let you know they were okay!?! I’m just so sorry. How are you? How are they (if it’s okay for me to ask)? *gives all the hugs*
They were on lockdown, no phone, until tonight. And their family doesn’t know my number (really need to fix that for the future). So I spent most of today worrying, fucking up with most of my social interactions, crying, and worrying some more.
But they were the one with the rougher experience and I’m just really glad they are alive and out.
I’m glad too. And I’m glad that they have a fiancé who loves them, cares about them, and doesn’t react like an ass when they have psychological issues that overpower them. I’m also glad that their family is implied to be accepting at least I hope I’m reading it right. After exchanging phone numbers, would it be possible for you to be put on as one of their emergency contacts? Maybe then at least if and when it happens again you might can find out if they are at least alive. And please take care of yourself as well and try to find a way to decompress alright? I know how bad stress can be on mental health. 🙁
*All the hugs to you and your fiancee*. I hope everything will be all right
And yeah, it didn’t take long for Clint to go full on abusive rant. How DARE Ruth have mental problems like this? How DARE she be depressed after her parents died? How DARE she don’t do exactly as he like in any way?
*accepts*
Had to look up what a 5150 is, and then realised I’ve lived it before, without being aware of that designation. Based on what details you’ve mentioned, I’m hoping your fiancee’s doesn’t stem from the same circumstances, and that they’re okay sooner than later. Also, sympathy to you, since I know it’s not easy to be on the other side of that.
Oh no, I hope they’re going to be okay. We’re here if you need to vent and I believe I have my messages on on Patreon if you need to talk.
I’m glad they’re hopefully stable. Here’s hoping for a swift and relatively painless recovery. Is there any chance you can call in ill? Or claim a family emergency?
I’ll see how functional I am in the morning. Right now, waiting for Baclofen to set in so I can get to sleep.
*hugs so, so much*
I hope they stay stable and get better with all the quickness possible, y’all are in my thoughts ♥
Also, hope work gets better (tolerable) eventually as well
Me too. Me too.
I am sorry about your fiancée. I hope the hospital was able to help and that they’re more stable and in a better frame of mind now. *hugs* if wanted?
*accepts*
I hope your fiancée will be ok.
*offers appropriate gesture of support *
*accepts*
*hugs you real tight* I hope your fiancee is ok and you guys can get through this. Sending you all my love, from this side of the pond to yours. Stay strong <3
*tearfully accepts*
Inappropriate gesture of support!
(because Becky grav)
Hey, be OK!
Aw no Cerberus… all the hugs.
You’re one of the kindest, most generous, and most dedicated people I’ve come across online, to say nothing of the enormous empathy that informs all of your comments here. I can’t even imagine how remarkable someone you’d choose to spend your life with would also be, ‘cos imagination just *fails* at that.
All the love to the both of you, from just another random noisy internet stranger.
Oh god, that’s horrible for both of you to have to experience!! *hugs*
Also, here’s an old curse for your…father if that’s what you can even call the man anymore that my old grandfather was fond of, “By Mary, Joseph, and all the saints may maggots fester in his flesh, may the air he breathes be as ash, may the fair-folk dance upon his grave, and may his soul drown in the devil’s piss in a ring of fire!” Honestly, after everything your father’s put you through, he deserves worse. Same with Clint. If Dante was right about hell, then I’m pretty sure this counts as “traitors to kin” and is a one way ticket to Caina. Which, oddly enough, is probably the only reason I’m still Catholic. Because I need for there to be a place where the truly evil are punished, because so often they aren’t in this life. Sorry…that got a little personal. It’s just, you’re a great person, and the thought of something happening to you or your fiancé is deeply upsetting. You’ve gone through so much, and you deserve a chance to be happy, a chance to be unafraid. I’ve been told I empathize and sympathize to easily with people, but if that’s true I’ll take that any day of the week. I just, hope you and your fiancé end up ok.
…
On a slightly more upbeat note, if you ever decide to have kids, I think you’d make an awesome parent if that helps at all.
-Offers hot mug of tea-
I sincerely hope that everything turns out okay, and that tomorrow is a brighter day for you.
All the hugs and wishes for peace and comfort to you and your fiance. That is such a hard situation.
A little less than a year ago now, my fiance was in a similar situation, when I had to call emergency services during a …. particularly bad night. The hospital would not tell me anything, would not let me talk to them. They were transferred elsewhere and I wasn’t even told where. It happened Saturday night and it was… I think Tuesday before I got to talk to them and even find out where they were. I was a mess thinking they might be gone forever and I would just never find out where they’d gone or what happened to them.
It was that trip and the care that followed that led to my fiance realizing she is trans. She hopefully will get to start HRT within a month or two. It has been a very up and down sort of year and her depression and anxiety certainly haven’t gone anywhere, but there is a light now where before was just a never-ending tunnel.
I hope your fiance can find some peace, and some help. This will be a horrible painful time but I hope something good can come of it.
In the meantime, again, all the love to you and them. <3
I’m so sorry about your fiancée. I’ll be thinking of them, and you.
Good goddess. All the hugs and positive vibes to you and especially your fiancee.
Thank you everyone for the kind words. It means a lot.
And I’ve traded phone numbers with their family so I can better stay in the loop if this were ever to happen again.
I’m glad. All the hugs!
I’d say I second that, but at this point I think I fifty-second that.
Make that fifty-third.
<3
There’s something especially insidious about the panel 3 line about only Ruth’s father achieving immortality through her, not her mother. The insinuation that nothing of Ruth’s mother, or at least nothing good of Ruth’s mother, survives in Ruth, invalidating the connection between them, cutting Ruth off from even the MEMORY of her mother.
Also: *internet-hugs of support*
…. siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.
Billie, as much as this guy DESERVES to have the crap beat out of him, and as much as Ruth is no doubt going to benefit from having you stand up for her, an A&B is not a win. I mean, this was dumb even before you wimped out.
What’s he going to do? Report that he was sort of attacked while attacking somebody else that probably has marks?
Given how effortlessly he seems able to game the system? Yes.
That’s part of gaming the system, though. Having a witness who knows what he’s doing, and has evidence, and is stalling him in public?
That might be a thing he doesn’t know how to deal with.
The way he’s treating Ruth right now is completely horrible. If you don’t see that, for ghod’s sake get professional help before you ever interact with any children. Even if he honestly thinks he’s doing it for her own good or whatever, that’s just another kind of completely horrible.
When he was in Chloe’s office earlier? He was looking forward to this. When he was talking with Ruth on the phone? More of this. Completely horrible.
“Disappointed” is ABSOLUTELY NOT a justification, reason, or excuse for EVER treating anyone this way. People who are not completely horrible do not act like this toward people they are disappointed in. Not even remotely close.
Panel 4: *eyes narrow*
Okay, there’s the obvious that need to be sorted out quick. There’s the treatment of a suicide-based 5150 that nearly cost Ruth’s life as “throwing away” his investment in her. There’s the fact that he’s using the things he’s forced upon her against her will and choice as proof of his largesse and thus stuff she owes him in return.
But the part I want to eviscerate is the “I have given you a home” bit. Cause this is the entry point a lot of abusers love to use against their kids to try and engender an unearned sense in the kid that the kid owes some measure of fealty for an action that was not at all done out of kindness.
Of course he provided a home. Ruth was a minor and he was the legal guardian. He was legally obligated to provide a home or be written up on neglect/abandonment charges. Something you do to stay out of jail is not a debt that someone needs to pay back. Especially when they had no choice in the matter.
Like, fuck, given the endless abuse he has thrown at Ruth and how much she’s wanted to die, you think she wouldn’t have taken nearly anybody else if she had had a choice in the matter?
And that’s the real purpose of it all. Create the illusion of debt, thus justifying the control. Make it seem like you need to make it up to the abuser so you try harder and harder to make up something you can never actually pay off. And as such, almost every abusive parent pulls this stunt at one time or another.
My ex’s abusive mom would always hard sell “all the sacrifices she made raising her” to browbeat her for submitting to another session of emotional abuse. My dad hard sold this shit when he tried to bully me into reparative therapy. My friend’s dad sold this shit even though the “home” he “provided” got taking away three times because he kept cooking meth in it.
And it’s why any time I hear that line, I pretty much know instantly that the person saying it is a vile piece of shit. Not that I needed any extra proof.
Panels 5-6: Oh bless you Billie, you kind hearted alpha bongo. You fight for your girlfriend and confront that abusive piece of shit. Sure it’s small, but it got him to stop his hate rant and focus on her instead and we see how much that matters in Ruth’s face.
The loss of the frown, the return of at least a more neutral face. Like Ruth wanted to protect her from this man, but so does Billie and I strongly suspect this is the first time anyone has fought back against “sir” on her behalf. The first time anyone has seen her as worth fighting back for.
And that’s going to make a lot of difference for Ruth and gives me hope that when “sir” retreats to his toxic waste pit, Ruth will be able to pick up her recovery, albeit in a more raw and shaky position than where she left off.
I’ve critiqued a lot about these two in the past, but right now, I unreservedly love these two and their frequently co-dependent love.
Also, fuck that guy.
Billie is awesome here, and for all the troubles with their relationship… right now she is completely, 100% RIGHT that Ruth needs her.
And she is there for Ruth.
Working harder to try and be anything but a disappointment to him is probably an easy thing to claim he wants without looking like a monster to most people, well when he chooses to couch it in terms that make it look like he’s trying to “protect her future” and “keep her on track”…though I guess the real kicker is its pretty clear that there’s actually nothing that’d ever clear that “disappointment” to begin with.
Really hoping this doesn’t come down too hard in some way on Billie, though while its maybe something that is a “bad decision” logically, this might be one of the few steps so far of their love changing into a less co-dependent one. This looks a lot more like standing up for someone no matter the cost because she (as one of the only people who seems to) actually cares about Ruth, instead of just clinging to her as the only hope for something meaningful.
… with my folks, the “I gave you a home” line was either, “If you don’t like it, you” – a child too young to sign a lease or even work – “can find somewhere else to live,” or “my way or the highway,” or “As long as you live under my roof, you do what I say,” or “I give you a roof, and food, and pay for your schooling. The least you can do in return is ____.” or etc. But boy, do I ever see shades of my parents in that line.
Note: I live in Canada, where being outside at night in winter for more than 10 minutes is potentially life- and limb-threatening, even if you have the right kit. Which I didn’t because I was a child. And they were threatening to kick me out with the clothes on my back, often in winter.
But yeah, abusive parents and parent-figures love to remind the kid that they’d be homeless without their parent. Never mind that it’s not the kid’s choice where to live or to even have been born. Gotta put the kid in a sense of perpetual debt owed. Make them feel like a burden.
My parents were a bit upset with me when I took my current position instead of continuing with grad school – because my current position pays enough that I not only don’t absolutely need their help (the way it was in undergrad school – I didn’t qualify for student loans because of my parents’ income, so if they didn’t help, I was SOL in terms of getting schooling), but there’s not even really a way for their help to make things significantly easier on me (like they did in grad school – their help meant I only had to work one extra job outside of the two I had through the school instead of two, and it meant that when the uni fucked up my pay schedule, I could still eat). I can easily pay all my needs and have money left over for some of my wants now.
Which means that my parents don’t have the ability to hold my food and shelter security over my head to control me, and they can’t stand it. Especially since the time they started in on me, and I replied with, “I don’t have to put up with this. Drop it, and if you don’t, I’ll leave.” And they continued, so I left. The time before that, my mother tried to sabotage my scheduled departure by “accidentally” parking me in so I couldn’t leave and then “losing” her keys so she had to wait until my father came home with his keys, by which time she was making noise about how it “can’t be helped” and it’s “too late” for me to leave so I should just stay another night – but I had work the next day, so it was, “I’d love to, but I can’t miss work tomorrow. See you next time.”
Because I am no longer dependent on them, they can no longer force me to accept being treated like shit or being guilted for existing.
I think the fact that Ruth was starting to move in a direction where she would not be dependent on “Sir” is what really had him pissed off. He wants her as a docile perma-child because he sees her as a prop to make him look good, and not as a person with her own thoughts and emotions.
*giant hugs for what you had to deal with*
And yeah, I think you are absolutely right. An independent Ruth is not what he wants. What he wants is a living trophy he can show off.
A living trophy he can show off publicly *and* abuse privately.
CN: Physical & emotional abuse and abuse enabling – for pretty much this entire post. Just FYI.
… also that blocking reminds me of the time I tried to leave at 15… dad had my hands by my wrists and was threatening to kill me over something. I think one of the younger kids had been playing with a stapler and fucked up some of his paperwork and I got blamed because I was the scapegoat, and I was refusing to accept blame because I didn’t fucking do it and I am a stubborn bastard and will refuse to admit to shit I didn’t do on principle. Anyway, he threatened to kill me and put his hand through the wall next to my head and something snapped inside and I told him if he wanted to kill me he’d better make good on the threat because if he touched me again and I wasn’t dead, my next step would be the police station if I had to drag myself there, and I’d put him in jail and I didn’t give a fuck whether he was my father or not… standing up to him shocked him a bit so his grip loosened, so I pushed him away and ran straight for the door. Mother tried to stop me and I told her I didn’t feel safe cohabitating with who’d just threatened to beat me to death, and I wouldn’t be back. Gave them both a two-fingered salute and spent the night under the pier.
Next morning my mother found me and talked me into returning. I had been planning on hitch-hiking to Ontario to find a relative who’d figured out what was going on and offered an open door a few months back. I still kind of wish I’d left town before my mother found me and got me feeling like I was the asshole for not just admitting to something I didn’t do because Dad was “stressed” and somehow that excused yanking me down a flight of stairs by my wrists – which he was grabbing hard enough to bruise – and threatening to beat me to death.
But my parents totes weren’t abusive, y’all. And my mother totally would’ve driven me to the police station herself if Dad ever was really abusive. They say it so fucking often it has to be true, right? */sarcasm*
Generally, the more a parent protests that what they do isn’t abusive, the more I suspect them of abuse. ACTUAL non-abusive parents don’t feel the need to talk up how they’d never abuse their kids, what they do is discipline and it’s different because it is shut up that’s why.
That’s…that’s horrible. I don’t know how to properly express my sorrow that you had to do that combined with the amount of rage I feel at your parents for doing that to you. I hope you’re in better place now though (it sounds like you are) and I hope the best for you.
It never crossed my mind that my mother was abusive before she inexplicably bellowed in my face “You think this is child abuse, son!?”
Yeah. See also playing abuse olympics. “When I was a kid, my father hit me with a belt! That’s abuse. Have I ever hit you with a belt? Have I?! Then shut your pie hole and stop complaining. You don’t know what abuse is! You’ve got it easy.”
Kid!me had thought that being hit for the slightest transgression was normal until the time his hit caught me on the nose instead of the cheek when I was six and my nose bled and I started crying cuz getting hit straight on in the nose fucking hurts and he burst out with that rant, followed by the “your display of negative emotion is not a sign that you’re actually hurt by what I’m doing but rather a sign that you’re trying to manipulate me and it’s not working” rant as well, followed up with a hefty dose of “STOP CRYING OR I’LL GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO CRY ABOUT!” which was a favorite tactic and is a big part of why everyone around me thinks I’m “strong” because, with the exception of one person, the only time anyone has ever seen me cry was right after I found out a close friend of mine died in a car accident, and that’s because I wasn’t able to hold it together, took myself off to the bathroom and someone heard me and then after I explained, they insisted I go home and took it upon themselves to tell everyone at work (which, don’t get me wrong, appreciate the thought – but I could’ve done without everyone at work finding out that I actually cry sometimes. It’s a degree vulnerability I am only comfortable with showing to one person in my life, and nobody anywhere I have ever worked is that one person, and even to that one person, I often feel the need to apologize profusely, because I still have this sense of abject shame whenever I’m caught crying. Should also note that the strongest people I’ve ever met have been the folks with the bravery to show their vulnerability, rather than hide it away like I do in meatspace).
(Adult me maintains that hitting your child until they do what you want them to do out of a motivation to make the pain stop is abusive, regardless of what you use to inflict said pain, and that instilling terror in your child because fear is an easy motivator to employ on your kid is also abusive, regardless of how you instill said terror. Rule through pain and fear is not love and care, it’s tyranny and abuse.)
Those last two panels are what give me hope for Ruth and Billie’s relationship together. Yes it started out wrong. Yes it’s been dangerously co-dependent at times. But at the end of the day, they’re willing to fight for each other.
That’s what I was thinking, too. “I gave you everything! The bare minimum I was legally obligated to provide you to continue being your guardian! A full-time job you’re ill-suited for but obligated to perform in addition to your studies!”
Here’s how you tell someone is a bad parent and a bad person: they focus on how much *they’ve* given *you*, not the other way around. They expect a fecking medal for doing or giving things other people in their position would think of as standard or minimal. They think that the relationship between them and you is transactional: that because they did something for you, you owe *them* something, and for some reason they get to decide what that something is.
My parents loved spending time with me and doing things that brought me happiness. They relished the opportunity to provide me with clothes and food and a pretty bedspread, going hiking and forcing me to take piano lessons. They pushed me to get a college degree because they were concerned about *my* future, not *their* status. They would never have considered it in transactional terms, but if it were put to them that way, they would say they considered all of it “repaid” by the humbling joy that having a daughter brought them. There was never any doubt that we were on the same side and had each other’s backs.
THAT is what being a parent looks like. Good parents do not tell their kids what good parents they are and cite rudimentary living accommodations as evidence of this. Good parents do not view their children as an “investment”; they view them as a gift.
As someone else who feels like they actually have a “mostly” good home life and relationship with their parents, thank you for sharing your story.
It…helps to know that well, its not all just an abusive mess out there, and you’re right in that it doesn’t necessarily take someone who has lived through the “red flags” to be able to see things that stand out as being a bad parent, or at least a lot worse of ones we were LUCKY enough to end up with.
I mean, maybe its not always quite as clear how bad it is or how deep it goes, but even a person who ended up with good parents can see the bad and the dis-junction if they let themselves look closely enough.
So yeah, thanks for the great post.
I, too, was lucky enough to be sheltered and privileged as fuck while growing up. (Not so much the ‘wealth’ axis, except by comparison to most of the rest of the world/history, or ‘mental health’, but I acknowledge that in every other respect I pretty much won the lottery.) These stories are strange and often horrifying to me, but also important and valuable. So thank you all for having the courage to not only endure, but to share.
Seriously, everything in this whole thread is valid and important.
Like… For god’s sake. Children are ENTITLED to have a home. The fact that you provided it is NOT a gift, it is NOT a proof of how much you have sacrificed… It’s nothing. It is what you owe society, owe the child for bringing it into the world.
The fact that so many abusers use that language to take power away from their victims terrifies me, because, like… Why do we EVER see that as something other than the bare minimum?
These comments are really making me think about my messy, complicated relationship with my own parents. Mostly, LovelyMonster’s description of their own parents resonates, but I’ve also had my mother genuinely confused that her verbal abuse could be harmful because *her* father hit them with belts. And the abuse they threw at me when I was a teenager? They genuinely believed they could bully me out of depression, and had the full weight of several criminally-terrible medical professionals supporting that mistaken view. Now that I’m an adult, I can better understand why they were treating me so badly, know that it was totally wrong, acknowledge how severe the harm was for me, and make the voluntary decision to believe that they are on balance good people who I want in my life.
Like I said, it’s complicated.
Taking a break from all the commentary on abuse to say that, yeah, I actually like Ruth and Billie together right now, too. Sometimes relationships that start unhealthy af can be the, like, only thing standing between someone’s health or misery. I’ve been there. It means a lot to have someone in your corner in those moments, and it can lead to a way, way healthier relationship dynamic.
Nice try Billie. We appreciate the effort.
Now RUN!
A brisk walk would probably suffice.
I’d punch him hard in the FAAACE!
Okay, my speculation for the future has changed.
I WAS thinking that this storyline was going to include a suicide attempt by Ruth.
Now… now I went from something like 60% confidence in that, to 20%. THANK YOU, Billie.
My current speculation is that Sir Clint is going to try to get verbally abusive on Billie (especially if he learns that she’s THAT Billie)… and Ruth’s going to pitch him into a wall.
…. and then he’ll go away forever, and the next time we see Howie he’ll have gone from pure nerd-geek to the broken soul we remember from Roomies.
…. Okay, how is it even my happy predictions turn into dark ones?
I’m kind of expecting that from Ruth as well. She’s conditioned to take it from him and not fight back, but if he touches Billie?
Oh wow, half of what I was hoping would happen. Now if only we can hope the next strip involves Carla and a video camera. I know it sounds like I’m joking, but I’m really hoping this is just the one in a one two punch to this asshole.
More Carla is always better.
Even Clint might think twice about trying anything if “the Ruttech Girl” gets involved. Though I think this is more a Ruth and Billie scene, even if it would help “redeem” Carla in Billie’s eyes maybe? Or that might just me being too into shows where “Teamups against Evil = New Friends”.
Carla is pretty great though.
OMG YES PLEASE
GET SOME CONCRETE PROOF OF THIS VILE SHIT
AND THE BACKING OF A WELL-SUPPORTED RICH KID WHOSE PARENTS CAN THROW THEIR WEIGHT AROUND AS WELL AS OR BETTER THAN ASSHOLE GRANDPA CAN IF HE EVER MAKES SO MUCH AS A MOVE IN HER DIRECTION
YESSSSS
Whoa gramps, calm your man-udders.
Should have just gone for broke and punched his head off, Billie. No mercy or consideration for abusive dickbags. Simply, face, meet fist, then floor.
nice chin you weird guy
Now we know why Ruth’s parents had moved to Canada. He has been a hater for a looooong time.
I actually like Billie not really punching him out her. This lets her stay on the indubitable moral ground. And I hope to hell someone with a smartphone is filming.
Also possibly free health care for Mr. Lessick.
Or possibly “Married a Canadian to have a reason to get far away.”
Yup. He can’t even call her violent and aggressive after the beautiful ridiculousness that is the last panel. It’s amazing
I suspected that it was something like this: Clint has never been able to look at Ruth and not see his son-in-law. He’s shouting at him in this strip, I think.
I fully understand Billie’s problem here. What is the appropriate level of force to use against an elderly man whose physical strength may be deceptive?
This may be my red rage of compassion talking, but if I were in Billies shoes and someone were abusing somebody I loved that way? My answer would be “as much force as possible”.
I agree. And if the old geezer dies as a result, it’s 100% accurate to say that you were afraid for someone else’s life and used lethal force as a result. In this scenario, given Clint’s size, all out force that leaves you exhausted is the appropriate response.
NOT HARD ENOUGH
Don’t worry, he’s full of nanomachines*. They harden in response to physical trauma, so Billie could wail on him all day and it’d barely make a dent.
*son
Who wasted perfectly good nanomachines on him?
thank you, Billie. Thank you.
I’m so glad I was right about Billie not leaving and waiting to punch Mr. Hughes at least a little bit. I thought it was maybe wishful thinking, but I was totally right, and I’m thrilled by that.
Also I agree with something someone said above: he never looks at Ruth and sees Ruth. He sees his son-in-law. Though that makes me wonder about why he isn’t worse to Howie, is there something about Ruth’s manner?
Its quite possibly that she’s the oldest…and has gone out of her way to try and keep the focus and expectations on her.
Well, or maybe theres just less things to leverage in Howie’s case due to his age allowing for less responsibilities?
CALLED IT
BILLIE BILLIE BILLIE BILLIE
I’m… just so glad she was there. Maybe Ruth will feel humiliated in the moment, but ultimately, having had someone present there, having a witness… it matters a lot.
Well, I got the feeling that her look before wasn’t the dread of humiliation as much as trying to “protect” Billie in the same way she presumably has tried to protect Howie. So, you know, hopefully nothing happens that makes her blame herself and push Billie away.
I don’t think Sir Asshole Grandpa has anything he can pull on Billie. Her parents are also rich, she’s physically stronger than him, the worst he can do is out her, and that’s… kind of a train that has left the station at this point.
And here and now, we are going to see proof of that. Right in front of Ruth, to drive it home that her abuser is not omnipotent. Best thing.
I really like how Ruth’s mouth line changes at the last three panels.
Such hope for the future 😀
No more Mr Nice Guy. The CIA had jobs for heroes with his amount of compassion.
Hey, people who said yesterday “I don’t think anyone was defending him”? This ^^^ is the kind of fuckery we’re talking about.
I like how all the jerks that were so sure that Clint was not abusive and that Ruth was lying are pleasantly absent from today’s comment section
Yeah, there’s at least one of them further up.
I’m sorry.
I always thought “Sir” was going to turn out to be abusive, but what I don’t understand is the aggression against people who weren’t sure or hoped for something different. What’s going on there that I’m missing?
Apparently, saying ” Innocent until proven guilty ” makes you guilty as well.
In the presence of proof, it most certainly does.
What constitutes proof vs evidence is opinion.
People who knew exactly what to look for had enough evidence they called it proof back from the phone call. Other people who had less experience had enough evidence the first panel with Clint. Others took two or three. The fact that no-one is here defending him anymore is evidence that nobody took more than four comics to realize.
I initially withheld judgment. I did not defend him. I did not say “he might be good”. I simply said I would not commit to him being evil until I had evidence I found conclusive. I got that yesterday, and I have been publicising my newfound conclusion since then.
Now that I have my proof, I am on your side. What I am guilty of is taking slightly longer than you to do so.
Of course, another part of wisdom is learning to listen to others who have more experience.
As a sorta bystander, who was kind of middling ground, the issue seemed more to be that the word choice of a lot of the people who fall into those later cases and were called out for it was often rather dismissive seeming.
Either dismissive in general, or specifically claiming that people with “experience” in such things were letting their pasts bias them against Clint because they “wanted” the character to be an abuser in order to justify their worldviews.
Which you know….rude? Retorting to someone that their personal traumas don’t allow them to express their opinion and then acting offended by them getting upset at that isn’t a good way to not make people mad at them.
A lot of the people who just said they weren’t sure or really hoped that things didn’t go downhill didn’t get aggressed at. Just those who really pushed the “See, everything is great, Clint is a nice guy and Ruth is obviously just overreacting cause this is the best thing possible for her” and the like the whole way through, while ignoring all reasons why it might not be perfect and anything else that might be wrong with the situation.
That makes a lot of sense, thank you. 🙂
Exactly this. To the point where there was one commenter saying they had to be the “voice of reason” because apparently abused people are incapable of being unbiased in the face of obvious abuse?
This exactly.
Because when an abused person finally speaks up, they’re always met with disbelief.
Precisely this. All those comments are an exact mirror of what happens in the real world, except in the real world the commenters aren’t shown the abuse a couple of strips later. They don’t believe, the victim goes home with the abuser and the abuse continues.
EXACTLY.
I think that’s mostly because Willis deleted their comments.
This keeps getting worse. Ruth’s like a deer in the headlights >_<
DEFEND HER BILLIE!
Her grandfather is a Hugues, and her brother is named Howard?
Ooooooh, I see what you did there, Mr Willis!
Huh. I remember Amber’s dad and how she or rather Amazi-Girl ‘solved’ that problem, largely by violence. That won’t work this time around. Would Amazi-Girl beat this guy up? This is gonna be complicated. I mean, I hope not, but it promises to be.
Also, him getting to close to Ruth and just unloading his anger at her is so uncomfortable to read, I really hope it gets better (before it gets even more worse). 🙁
Kinda flashing back to Preacher, and Jesse throwing Odin Quincannon through a window right now.
BODYGUARD: You son of a bongo! He’s seventy years old!
JESSE: That’s OK. I hit young fucks, too. (punches bodyguard)
I’m going completely from memory here, so forgive any deviations from the original text. The point is, a senior citizen is in great need of defenestration.
Defenstration is such a wonderful word…for throwing people out windows. Hopefully ones who deserve it, like Clint here.
Why isn’t she acting like Ruth at all?
Seriously. Why is she just shutting up? This is a woman who when sick from alchohol withdrawal suplexed a grown man, threatened her charges with murder casually and who has otherwise been shown to be very ornery and combative.
That’s not how being abused works. You don’t just suddenly turn into a different person when your abuser walks into the room. I know from personal experience that children and teenagers with abusive families are combative with their parents very often, if not almost all the time (which unfortunately also works on the abuser’s favor, as now they have the excuse of “Im disciplining you for your rude behavior”, which creates a whole lot of anger management issues down the road). If anything, being in an abusive household should make you more likely to be violent and aggressive in interpersonal confrontations. The way Ruth is written i expected more of an Amber-style violent outburst than a mental BSOD
Not everyone reacts to being abused the same way.
Because Clint is her parental figure and it is a very real human instinct to seek love and acceptance from parental figures. That means, no matter how hurt, frightened or angry Ruth is, when dealing with Clint, there will always be the desperate part of her seeking his approval and love, no matter how objectively impossible that should be.
Its not much different than she was over the phone either, just more intensely so.
Some of it could still be shock at him bursting into her life….
Though another thing, I’m pretty sure she’s mainly threatened those she’s felt like she has authority over, instead of one of the few people who has presumably trained her to believe she’s under his authority.
Actually I see a lot of myself in Ruth, and how she’s acting here. I learned early on that my punishments weren’t as bad if I just shut down. It sadly made me a very unstable and violent person for a long time. Now that I’m out of the house and my mother can no longer punish me, I finally fight back. But fighting back used to mean my life was f%$2# for the next 6 months.
wow PTSD is sure weird huh!!
I would become like a different person when my abusive parent / relatives were around. I would shut down and retreat inside myself, or try to appease them, even back when I was a child and took my pain and anger out on other people (who I wasnt afraid would kill me). Please do not assume that your own experience is the only one, and please do not speak for other people. THANKS.
Ditto.
And I definitely feel Ruth here because my trauma response is also freeze.
And I definitely have had diff experiences than op, because most abused folks I know have a voice and a mask they put on when surviving their abuser. It can be really eerie if you’re not expecting it.
“That’s not how being abused works.” Are you serious? Given you have experience with the topic I would think you would know it most certainly can be how abuse fucking works.
My parents taught me well enough to stand up to the man that I would often still yell “fuck you!” at them in between sheltering myself from being attacked, but they were both 100% capable of making sure to use words to break you eventually, and now I absolutely fucking shut down whenever anyone’s angry at me. If they’re aggressive enough I can give it back, but if it’s a situation where explosive anger is inappropriate I just completely shut down. And guess what? I’m no shrinking wallflower.
You know what makes me incredibly angry? That my brain/body responds like that. So you know what else makes me angry? Statements like “that’s not how abuse works.” Can you not?
Seconded. Abuse works a lot of different ways for a lot of different people.
Which you should know if you actually have any experience in this field? I mean, shutting down is really fucking common and I don’t see any reason why you would think it isn’t.
I have the temper of a Red Lantern and my response to a onslaught of verbal abuse from my abuser is absolutely to freeze up entirely, so maybe don’t make blanket statements about abuse like that?
…that was very much how being abused worked for me, thanks. Turns out people all react differently to years of parental (figure) abuse, who’d’a thunk it!
Wispy, I respectfully disagree. Ruth’s reactions are consistent with this sort of abuse. Clint almost certainly has regularly abused Ruth for many years. Clint is her alpha. Due to the repeated abuse and, probably, repeated failed attempts to stop him when she was younger, she believes there is no way to fight back against him without losing. It is better to shut up, shut down and take it than do anything that would make it worse.
As RA, she is the alpha among the students. She mimics the alpha behavior she has learned. It is conceivable that she is not consciously aware of the extent to which she is mimicking Clint’s behavior.
Everyone responds to abuse differently. For instance as a teenager I was like Ruth is normally with my peers, antagonistic and combative with my emotionally abusive mother, but put me in front of a male who was angry and I shut down and became submissive and placating because my father not only screamed at me for literally hours at time and was otherwise verbally abusive, he also regularly beat me, tortured me, molested me, and passed me around to his fundamentally religious friends from church to rape and molest from the time I was 3, so yes this is exactly how being abused can and does often work!
*appropriate gesture of support* I’m so sorry
*accepted and appreciated* Me too, it’s why I felt the need to respond because the kind of statement wispy made is what I heard so many members of our church, which I now know is really a cult, say when I told. “Oh that’s not bad”, “that’s not how that works, a good child submits”, “you should be glad your father loves you.” I’ve also heard time and again why my responses, freezing or flying into a rage depending, meant I was just a bad kid. It’s also the reason I’ve spent thousands of dollars on therapy so I can be a good parent to my daughter.
“That’s not how being abused works.”
Well, shit. You mean all this time, I’ve been reacting to abuse WRONG? Come to think of it, I didn’t get the “How to React to Abuse From Your Parents” handbook when I was a kid. That’s probably why I’ve been doing it so wrong all this time. Silly me.
You so seem to know about this, though — where can I pick up a copy of that handbook? So I can react to abuse in the way that you seem is “right”?
Power dynamics brah. We react differently to people in power. Ruth was in power and didn’t want to be, and here she has a clear disadvantage. A good example of this situation is my own. My parents are pretty abusive to me, but only when I live under their roof. Once I left, our relationship immediately became civil. Why? Because they were no longer trying to control me and I was no longer suffocating whenever they had a request.
This is true for anything from abusive to non abusive people. We act differently to our peers, our superiors, and those we rule over. And even if we don’t, our actions will come across differently to each group.
How dare you not be how I imagine my perfect little girl was.
What is Ruth’s major again? My advice to Ruth is to major in something that will lead to financial independence and get as far away from sir as possible.
She’s a polisci major if I recall correctly
No, she’s an English major. Poli Sci is Dorothy.
Ah, English, the road to riches.
yeah, she’s boned.
Depends what she wants to do. Any job with strong writing skills needed could benefit. Also there’s editing, teaching (both in English speaking countries and abroad), journalism, publishing, advertising, public relations, business, grad school, etc.
English degree doesn’t have to mean starving writer.
Frankly, she’s better off than if she’s in tech, because that bubble’s about to pop and saturate that market with programmers and other techie types. Comp sci and the like is a mug’s degree these days, and this is speaking as someone with a brother taking it – I worry for that kid, I really do.
FWIW, Clint is an ex-soldier. Violence against him, no matter how cathartic it might be, won’t in any way affect what he thinks is ‘right’. I’m hoping that Ruth suddenly brushes him off, tells him that she doesn’t want his help or his money and tell him that, if she disgusts him so much with how much she reminds him of his son-in-law, he should never have contact with her again; she’s okay with that.
His reaction would be… instructive.
But then there’s Howard, who Ruth is trying to protect. Clint still has custody of him, and such an action would likely not be good for Clint’s treatment of him.
Yeah, Ruth is probably going to end up having to take custody of Howard, either officially or unofficially.
The problem with your train of thought is that it puts primacy in changing Clint’s beliefs, instead of where it should be, which is protecting Ruth. Violence him away, all the way, Billie.
Well, for those of you who were rationalizing that this was all in Ruth’s head, I think that delusion has been shattered.
Y’know, guys, I think you’re all being far to hard on Clint. We still haven’t REALLY seen him do anything abusive yet, so let’s just wait out another day and see what happens next before we call him an absolute cumstain who shames himself, his family, and actively pisses on any symbolic good there was to his being a serviceman by showing- and EXPRESSING- clear disdain for not only his granddaughter, but his late son-in-law (for reasons neither could control and that are rooted in a frankly creepy favouritism of his beloved-and-also-late progeny), yeah?
Alright, good talk.
You’re absolutely right. In fact, let’s hold off indefinitely until Clint is dead and buried, just to be sure.
Please be joking.
I’m pretty sure they were.
That’s what I was hoping for.
Yeah, I was 100% joking/deliberately taking the piss out of the folk continuing to defend Clint well after it was straight up Text that he’s a wretched geezer.
I like to hope that by this page, nobody could still seriously, unironically believe otherwise. But, well, I’ve been wrong
Calm down, white crusty Satan, there are other job opportunities.
By the way, I will post a real comment later, but I wanted to say thanks for the support yesterday. I kinda needed that. I am okay. I do have a good support system now. It took me a long time and a lot of work to understand my parents and the bullshit that surrounds my family. I’ve long since lost them both and made peace with it and made peace with what I am learning as I go.
*Internet Hugs for all who want them*
Get it together, Billie, we only punch dads in the last panel.
Also I’m going to call this phone right now; this is gonna get racist.
It would seem Mr. Lessick’s cheating past was intact. Doubt it was with Billie’s mom though.
What Bagge said upstream: Billie was just perfect here. She’s quite capable of cleaning Clint’s clock, but this approach is much more likely to set him back on his heels. If he tries to pull something now he’s going to look ridiculous, and he’d hate that.
Also, is everybody done “giving him a chance” yet?
I keep seeing comments wondering why people who defend Clint get negative feedback; this is why. Abusers work hard to look reasonable in public, so when the abused person finally speaks up, the whole world gaslights them. (Some personal experience here, except I never spoke up. I didn’t know I could, and thought the problem was all with me.)
“Cleaning Clint’s clock”: nice alliteration. Sounds like a book title, or at least a strip title.
I know, right. Billie could SO EASILY have done something half-cooked that would have made everything worse, but she didn’t.
She has made EVERYTHING “Sir” want to pull off so much harder, and he knows it.
He’s an abusive, bullying piece of shit, but unlike Blaine and Toedad I’m hoping for a redemption arc, if only because as hard as he tried my dad, who was a fucking ape, never quite finished his.
I suspect there’s a lot of guilt, grief and resentment going on here.
That person telling us to give the poor old misguided gentleman a chance a few strips ago sure is quiet today.
If it’s the same one I’m thinking of, they were being annoyingly flippant in the comments the next day, and then they mysteriously stopped posting and allllllll their comments disappeared.
Nothing of value was lost.
They appear with such regularity, I keep wondering if there’s some office somewhere that dispatches them.
Or perhaps it’s just the call of the sphincter clench.
Well it’s safe to say Clint is terrible which is kind of disappointing since I had hoped he might just be a hard man who’s trying to do his best with grandchildren. Someone complicated instead of another Blaine or Ross.
Abuse comes in all shapes and sizes! There’s the masculinized bigotry of Ross, the controlling and possessive entitlement of Blaine, oooor there’s this guy with his guilt-laden railroading projection. The other two are more immediately dangerous, but Clint can sustain the act. Blaine flips the second someone goes against him, because in his world that’s simply not allowed. Clint knows how to keep it all hidden until he’s got his victim alone. Ross hides nothing; the things that make Ross abusive are just part of who he is.
Abuse is complicated. If you’re looking for a hard man trying to do right by his kids, then we have had that — and it was Ross. Arguably Clint still falls into that category. Your opinion of what “right” is and what means that goal justifies are where the line falls between abuse and normal parenting.
Or the Walkertons with their emotional abuse and neglect, coupled with preferential whiteness, the Billingsworth’s seemingly just dropping out of Billie’s life, the religious based self hatred that the Browns instilled in Joyce (though Hank is getting better), the Wilcoxen’s constant put downs and verbal abuse masked as jokes and preferring others to their son, and I’m sure we’ll see at least one more bad set of parents from somewhere – whether that be Joe, Roz, Marcie, or Sarah.
Even if he were ‘trying to do his best’, why is it so hard to accept that, in this case, Clint’s best simply is not good enough?
yep that’s exactly how my dad thinks of me – i’m my mom.
every single time they fought over the divorce, he would always lump me into it. “YOU TWO are just LIARS”
like tf dude you sired me and then ruined me fuck off
Ruth’s Mom ran away from his control, and defied him by marrying her Dad. Now, he sees Ruth as a replacement daughter. He’s pushing to make sure she doesn’t become what he considers to be a “failure” like her father (and in many ways her mother), and he’s piling his anger on her in what may be vain effort to redirect his guilt. Deep down he may realize that his daughter left because of his actions. Billie may be the savior here. If he directs his anger at her, Ruth may snap and go after him. She may not be able to speak up and protect herself, but the need to protect Billie may bring all of her anger and resentment to the surface. If that happens, Clint could find himself back in a war zone.
Rut also has Howard to worry about.
…well that was a very infortunate typo.
An attack on Billie may blind her to any consequences. Howard may live in a kind of “state of grace” where Clint is concerned. He sees Ruth as a continuation of his failure where his daughter’s concerned, but he may have written off Howard completely and see him as simply a financial obligation. If Howard physically resembles his hated son-in-law, he’ll do what’s required, but he won’t bother himself with any details. Even physically or emotionally abusing Howard would require more effort than he wants to expend on someone on someone he sees as a “weak, unfaithful collection of mental problems”. As I type this, the word “unfaithful” stands out. There may be an entire context hidden in that one word.
As another speculation on how Clint treats Howard vs. how he treats Ruth, recall that Howard didn’t think moving to the US was such a big deal. Ruth attributes that to his age, but maybe another aspect of it is that Howard gets less abuse. For now, anyway.
Ruth seemed worried their grandfather treated him badly. She said she hoped her dying would make him be nicer to Howie. Whether she meant ‘in comparison to how he treated me’ or ‘in comparison to the past’ is unclear.
I do get the impression that he doesn’t abuse Howard or it somehow doesnt bother him/doesnt realize it’s abuse.
another theory swimming through my head is the age thing. It could be her grandfather only started this abuse after she reached a certain age? Maybe in his eyes since she is legally an adult he can get away with more to her than with Howard who is still a minor.
Also I’m reminded of Faz a little? The situation is a bit different sure but Faz seemed to be completely fine in Blaine’s company, having actually accompanied him to the college. Likely meaning like Blaine this guy treats his grandson better thand his grandaughter.
Is it cuz they’re women? I dunno
funnily enough, once he got that violent and started saying stuff my dad would never say in a million years, he started scaring me less
Thank you, Billie.
Re: the various abuse histories being told in the comments
Why are people such assholes? That’s not a rhetorical question, can someone please help me understand why people are so shitty to other people, especially their children.
Because there is one thing that history tells us is this: Humans are essentially pretty aggressive and nasty creatures in social terms. There is a significant and large minority in most populations that have to be threatened pretty thoroughly with unavoidable and nasty consequences in order to coerce them to treat those weaker than themselves with compassion rather than just tear them to pieces so there are then more resources available for themselves.
A lot of times, it gets perpetuated from one generation to the next. Maybe it goes back all the way to our apish forefathers. We all carry that baggage, to one degree or another.
Because we broke evolution. No, really, that’s it. See, way back when, when people were fuckwits, they got exiled and then either starved or got eaten by cave bears. And then at some point, exiling people became pretty much meaningless because there were no longer wild beasts to eat them, and those people became wealthy and influential, because life is a whole lot easier if you don’t mind running roughshod over everyone. And then at ANOTHER point, we started to actively select for shitstains (just see how many women said “I’d let Chris Brown hit me any day” after every one of his violent outbursts).
…I really don’t think people were nicer back when anyone who deviated from social norms was sent away to die horribly. I think if anything we’re actually probably nicer now, and we just still have a long way to go.
I think JBento meant more that we’ve always had a a good number of bad people, and nothing about that has changed, but now they are the ones more capable of rising to power as we’ve built a world where cooperation is less and less necessary and is even (by a not insignificant number of people) considered a hinderance.
Well, I don’t think that’s true either. You don’t get anything notable done in the modern world without some level of cooperation from people. And any history book will show you that ancient times are not exactly dominated by rulers much kinder and cooperative than the ones today.
People looking at evolutionary explanations for asshole behavior have tended the other way, supposing that it used to be helpful for survival to some percentage of them in case certain situations come up. That seems possible but much more speculation than science. In any case, though, their prominence is not some modern problem to do with our civilization shielding people from consequences of their actions.
For the record, chimpanzees are often extremely horrible to one another, the existence of predators and lack of industrial society notwithstanding.
As I understand it, it’s generally thought that much of our behavior has evolved for internal competition, not so much for group survival. Friendly cooperation is all well and good, but being in charge of a bunch of underlings is even better – get the lion’s share of resources, more mates, more offspring, genes get spread farther.
Maybe it’s because we have more people now, or because said people move about more freely, but there’s definitely a shifting of power. I’m not arguing that there are more assholes now than there were then (% wise, at least). I’m arguing that they suffer less consequences for their assholery, and therefore thrive (because, again, you can get farther if you don’t care about anyone else, assuming you can still get them to do what you want them to).
If Ugg, the greatest hunter of the clan, breaks the arm of Ikka, the herbalist of the clan, no-one’s going to stand for that, because you can’t replace Ikka and you REALLY need the person who knows which herbs stop you from bleeding and which make you shit yourself to death, while you can probably get by just fine with Thokk, who isn’t QUITE as good as Ugg but is still a pretty good hunter and doesn’t go around breaking people’s arms, so Ugg gets fed to the next cave bear you need to distract.
But if doctor Dudebro sexual assaults nurse Not-into-you-please-go-away, society in general doesn’t have to care, because you can just get another nurse. Sure, you can also just get another doctor, but waiting until the nurse quits and just getting another just has less work involved.
Cavefolk weren’t less assholish, they just couldn’t afford to asshole as much as modern people do, because they lived on the edge of horrible death (by cave bear, and more) to start with. Of course, this also mean that stuff that is shitty now wasn’t shitty then. When Republicans decide to not feed kids, they’re just evil. When the hunter-gatherer clan decide not to feed kids because everyone is barely getting by and they need to make sure the hunters have enough energy to be able to hunt, that’s just necessary.
Except Ugg. Ugg’s an asshole. And he got fed to a cave bear.
thejeff, good point, I am glossing over a lot of things.
JBento, needing people to live cuts both ways. Maybe the next Ugg turns out to be the herbalist of the clan, and so you have to look the other way when he repeatedly assaults Minga. Especially if she ends up married to him anyway. We actually have tribal societies to this day, and I get the sad impression that excusing such things is not any more unusual than it is for industrial businesses to do the same with their rockstars. There is a lot of debate about whether or not murder was more common in early societies.
Anyway, I will note again that chimpanzees also have to survive in harsh nature, and they go out to bite the genitals off other chimps on a fairly regular basis. Sorry, I just don’t by the argument that cavemen must have had to play nicer than people in towns and cities do now.
Fair enough. 8)
I’m pretty sure your fantasy version of caveman society doesn’t match anything seen either in our closest relatives or in the closest tribal analogues we’ve studied. There’s always internal power relations and incentives to control others.
Your argument is also easy to flip around – if an easily replaceable member harms a irreplaceabale one, he can’t get away with, but if an irreplaceabale one hurts an easily replaceable one, you can’t hurt him because you need him. Children are easily replaced.
What tribal societies do have that differs from modern society are a couple things. One, they’re small, so everyone knows every and tends to know everyone’s business. “It takes a village to raise a child” kind of thing. That puts a damper on some kinds of abuse. There’s much less privacy and opportunity to abuse without being detected.
Such societies also tend to be quite static and have developed complex rules for interaction and behavior over centuries. While these don’t keep people from competing for power, they usually limit the ways it can be abused. Our world is in constant flux with entire ways of life changing from generation to generation or even faster. We can’t work out good systems of rules before the situation changes again.
Fair enough. 8)
…
Can I still feed shitty people to cave bears, though?
Unfortunately, when those rules themselves are abusive, there often needs to be a major status quo shift BEFORE they can be changed. That’s not just talking about caveman society, more a call to arms for the proletariat to rise up against the bourgeoisie.
(Seriously, though, I’ve never understood why Marx demonized the bourgeoisie when the true enemy is the aristocracy that controls them both and benefits from their infighting.)
These people are utterly dependent on cooperation from people that are better than them.
They are, but there are MORE people for them to extract cooperation from – it doesn’t matter if they exploit one person to alienation, because there’s another couple of hundred lining up behind them to do the same job.
The simplistic answer is one word. War. Peaceful happy people get pulled, or pushed, into a dehumanizing situation. The peaceful happy people are dehumanized by the actions they have to take, and the people they take action against are dehumanized. After the conflict they return home and try to return to their old lives. Sadly, the person that returns isn’t the same one that left. The have seen atrocities, they may have committed atrocities against their will, and after a while those atrocities seem normal. They now have trouble relating to their loved ones that haven’t been through battle. they don’t know how to deal with their past, and they take it out on the ones around them. The anger and violence seeps out and infects their children. The children learn what they live and pass it on without knowing the peaceful happy lives they’re missing. In some, the anger steeps and grows exponentially and their misery is passed on greatly amplified. Things are slowly improving as we learn the need for counseling after traumatic events, but they’re moving far too slowly to stem the tide. If you’re suffering, get help. Be one more broom against the tide.
Some men just want to watch the world burn.
So he goes straight from “Come.” to “Your father…your wretched [etc.]”?
I feel like we missed a strip in between. Then again, maybe the abrupt mood swing was the point?
It’s not a mood swing. It’s the falling of the mask, now that he doesn’t have to keep up the facade for Chloe. THIS is who Clint is.
And also what Ruth has known to be coming since she saw Howie. Every frame with her paralysed expression has been in anticipation of this moment.
That’s how the bigtime family controllers do it. One second they are gladhanding the judge, then they turn the corner and get into your face so hard that they’re losing their english and a turning a new shade of purple. It’s a common yet horrifying sort of behavior
Last panel of the last comic. This was not abrupt. This was planned.
Yeah, going back a few strips and re-reading it I see that now. My fault for missing a few days and resuming with this one.
A crucial visual detail in the last few strips are Ruth’s eyebrows. They’ve been absent since her plea in the office (two strips back). But in that last panel they’re back; her eyes aren’t stuck in deer-in-headlights mode anymore. It’s a small victory for Billie, but a victory nonetheless.
I dare Willis to draw a good parental figure aside of Joyce dad for once!
Go back to the Freshman Family Weekend arc, there’s a few. Dina’s, Sierra’s, Dorothy’s, Mike’s. We haven’t met them yet, but the Ruttens sound pretty awesome sauce.
I think we need a sequence of family conflict between Mary and her parents, where the shocking reveal is they’re perfectly sweet and nice and are trying to do their best for her, but somehow have created this monster. 🙂
Of course, that’s sort of Mike’s family history too.
I believe Willis’ tumblr said that Mary’s family were probably very nice people and that she had learned all the wrong lessons at Church.
I like to imagine they’re both like (new and improved) Hank.
And if you want to be really sad – Bonnie
Go to your room.
And cryyyyyyyyy
Why must you do this :'(
Sadness is like love – it grows by sharing it!
The Ruttens sound amazing!
Right?!? Can they adopt all the kids?!?
…..Fine, can they adopt Ruth, Sal, Danny, and Ethan? I’d throw in Billie but that’d make things awkward. The Walkertons aren’t shitty to her so they can keep her and Walky, for now, I guess.
I never understood how parents and grandparents could be so cruel to kids/grandkids like that. My own grandmother was that nasty to me. I eventually wound up disowning her to protect my mental health and she died a bitter, mean hated old woman.
I didn’t expect nuance. I didn’t receive it.
Once, perhaps, I’d like to see plot points that aren’t telegraphed beforehand, or perhaps some that upend the commentariat’s zeitgeist. At some point, I don’t have to read Dumbing of Age—just Cerberus’s commentary—and I already know what will happen over the next 5 months.
Tell the people who defend every abusive character about how it’s telegraphed. They’ll be shocked.
Boohoo, a comic realistically depicting abuse. You’re right, you don’t have to.
Please do not strawman me. I am not commenting on the existence of abuse in the comic, or whether the abuse is handled appropriately or realistically. Your ‘boohoo’ is both unwarranted and rude.
I did comment about predictability. This is the third time in which “father figure appears in-comic and is directly (physically/verbally/emotionally) abusive”. Only Joyce’s father is shown not to be directly abusive, though that could be because he himself is abused by his domineering spouse.
Cerberus’s posts are insightful, and create a useful read-ahead. It would be an interesting study to find out how many posts were unexpected prognostications.
Also Dorothy’s, Dina’s, Mike’s, Joe’s, Sierra’s.
We knew her grandfather was abusive a long ass time before he appeared. This should not be a shock for you.
You can tell a lot about a man from the way they use — or misuse — the term “strawman”. What you’re complaining about is the fact that abusers show signs of being abusers, and that abused people show signs of being abused. What you seem to be asking for is a “shocking swerve”. A turn so drastic and unforeshadowed that it is unrealistic.
You might not know that’s what you’re asking for, but people who’ve never tried to write anything often don’t realize how critical foreshadowing is. And the fact that Cerberus — an abuse survivor — can pick out the different signs of abuse in the comic simply means that Willis — an abuse survivor — is good at creating realistic depictions of abuse.
If you think it was telegraphed too obviously then you might want to have a look at the comments for the last few strips, many of which were arguing in Clint’s favour or at least withholding judgement.
But then you’re using the phrase “commentariat’s zeitgeist” so I think your real problem is with Willis’s politics, not the actual strip.
You do Cerberus a disservice by implying their commentary is based only on the obvious.
You can read into my comments what you will. You are free to interpret my words in any way you wish.
But by “commentariat’s zeitgeist” I am actually referring to the deep critical analysis of each strip. It would be an interesting twist to see the commenters led to believe one thing, and then it turns out that the opposite is true.
I do not believe that Cerberus’s posts are based only on obviousness, but the analysis done by Cerberus does accurately represent the forward motion of the strip’s themes.
When you have a smart, crowd sourced analysis of a work on a day by day basis, you’re going to have throw something from completely out of the blue to fool all or most of them.
It’s not generally considered good writing to lead your readers to believe one thing and then have the opposite be true, without having planted sufficient clues beforehand to have them be able to look back and realize the evidence was there all along. Given the amount and quality of critical analysis this strip gets, all those clues are going to be hammered out ahead of time.
This is a very weird way to read fiction. Imagine reading a murder mystery one page a day and having a hour long discussion about that page with a hundred smart people. You’re going to spot all the plot twists.
Unless it’s a Sherlock Holmes story, in which case the critical clue for solving the mystery isn’t revealed until after Sherlock has already solved it.
Technically, despite being founding literature for the genre, the Holmes stories aren’t Murder Mystery genre.
Which has always amused me.
Oh, they’re mystery stories, but they’re not Fair Play mysteries. That is to say, they’re stories about mysteries, but not ones that the reader is meant to be able to solve. ‘Clueless’ mysteries like the Sherlock Holmes stories are a totally valid form of mystery fiction.
It should be noted, though, that even a clueless mystery should make sense, once the missing clues have been given – contradictions should be explained (especially if the vital clue turns things on their heads), as should why certain details are irrelevant. The point isn’t ‘haha, I fooled you’ it’s ‘now that we have all the information, let me show you how all this fits together’.
I suppose we could get sudden revelations of abuse without any warnings? No previously established characterization or foreshadowing. I’m not sure that would be better.
I suspect it might read as more nuanced if we weren’t analyzing every day’s strip to death. 🙂 Just reading these in sequence without the delay, I think much of what we figure out wouldn’t be so obvious. Of course, there are always commenters who miss the “telegraphed” plot points and defend the villains long past the point of revelation.
I’m up for stuff that is unpredictable because it’s a new plot point, and this strip has that for time to time. Stuff that is unpredictable because it doesn’t ring to true from the characters – which is what it would take for someone like Cerberus, who very well understands how people act, not to call any of it – well, I don’t see why that’s a plus.
We’ve already seen all sorts of indications Ruth’s guardian is abusive, so there was no real nuance to expect. I guess you’re disappointed it wasn’t invented anyway, like if he somehow turned out less abusive despite what we already knew? If Clint turned out to be a mannequin, so that Ruth was only imagining their relationship, would that have been better?
Actually… yes.
There are many reasons why a person can be, themselves, violently abusive toward others (as Ruth -has been- let us not forget). The obvious reason is due to abuse in the home, following the “abused become abusers” analysis. On the other hand, there people who have not been abused in the home, but have other deep-seated emotional traumas that can manifest themselves in anger. We have, if I recall correctly, only one phone call and a mentally-breaking down narrator to go on before Clint’s actual appearance.
Part of me wanted to see Clint as a cold, emotionally detached man who provided no support over Ruth’s parents’ death. Not because he hated her, but because he was incapable of showing the kind of emotional depth necessary to help a child through an incredible trauma. Ruth resented him for it, and projected her anger and pain outward on others.
It would have been an interesting twist. I knew someone a long while ago with a story similar to that.
But this is not my comic, and Willis is more than capable of telling his own stories.
By that logic we should never take anything someone mentally ill says seriously ever, because they’re ‘mentally breaking down’.
So a while back when Willis was showing Sal’s parents giving her shit about her hair, he said something to the effect of, “I’m not going to do a story about racism where it’s all just in the black woman’s head”. I think it’s safe to assume that the same is going to apply to any story of abuse as well.
To be fair,Cerberus use about 100x as many words as the comic AND an annotated reference section, so the comic would have to work hard to keep up.
As for you actual point – that wouldn’t add to my reading experience. This comic is most of all about people and the narrative stay true to their experience.
The abuse of Ruth is telegraphed because Ruth knows exactly what her grandfather is. She has not been forthcoming with details, but it has been a part of her behavior since day one. Astute observers, such as Billie and Cerberus, have picked up on it. Would the story be better if Billie hadn’t snuck in to Ruth’s closet and seen her receive that first, telling phone call from “Sir”? Not for me.
Becky is a master of hiding trauma behind her mask, and thus she successfully hid her father’s abuse from Joyce and us for several months. I didn’t see it it coming when she kissed Joyce, and judging from the comments few other people did it either.
As for Blaine… that kinda WAS sprung on us on family weekend. BOOM, abusive father in the room. Sure, it was known for readers of Shortpacked, but as far as I can recall he wasn’t even mentioned in Dumbing of Age until he showed up.
As for more subtly abusive parents I strongly suspect Danny’s and Ethan’s parents will have more horribleness in store for us.
So for me, this is a well told story about People and their Baggage. Ruth’s horrible grandfather is an integral part of her story. It is part of why she ran the floor like a tyrant, why she bullied – and courted – Billie, it is part of her mental problems and part of her crash. Of course it is telegraphed – it is part of a story we have followed for years.
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Ethan, so what the comic has themes. It’s what the artist/author wants to talk about. If you don’t like it spend years developing your own characters and make your own comic.
But in particular you seem upset at “predictability” so maybe you’ve noticed human interactions are pretty damn predictable if you notice the signs they telegraph, far in advance.
What was wrong with the Keeners? I also bet Carla’s parents are pretty supportive. Joe’s dad is just a horn dog but there was no indication he is a bad dad.
That was suppose to be a response to the earlier post about challenging Willis to present good parents. Don’t know why it showed up here.
Also, Dina’s parents seem awesome as well.
There’s a few awesome parents and a few we haven’t met but have no evidence of toxicity and so can therefore offer a benefit of the doubt. Far more than confirmed bad ones.
Naaah, Joe’s dad is a really bad dad. Not THIS bad, but, Walky’s mom level bad.
But Carla’s parents are supportiver, the keeners are great and dina’s parents are precious.
What did Joe’s dad do that indicated he was a bad father to Joe? I think I’m blanking.
Well, we haven’t seen much of him, but to put it like this: Joe’s father is pretty much the main source of Joe being Joe. All that toxic masculinity, all that thinking of women as nothing but sexual objects, the opinion that consent is a challenge to be overcome… Yeah, this is where all that comes from.
And there are other things too. I’m not sure where those strips were, but I believe that Joe’s hinted at how it was a really messy divorce (probably involving Joe’s dad cheating several times), and it seemed to be implied that the way his father treated his mother caused him to basically shut out all signs of emotional vulnerability. Seeing someone being deeply hurt and betrayed by someone else that they loved and trusted can be pretty crappy; and then in turn, you try to become someone who can’t possibly be hurt that way…
I do agree with that, but again, that strikes me more as him being a bad role model than actually mistreating Joe. And I admit, I was under the impression the divorce was nasty on both sides.
You can cause all kinds of damage to ppl, especially to kids, without ever being explicitly abusive to them. An absentee dad doesn’t do ANYTHING to the kid and is definitely a Bad Dad.
Setting Joe up with the full suite of Man!Issues Norton laid out is Being A Bad Father 101. Role Modeling is part of the job.
An absentee parent IS abusive though – that’s neglecting their responsibilities, point blank.
I can get where you guys are coming from, but we’re talking ‘bad’ in the sense of abusive or toxic relationships, not ‘terrible role models’ or being problematic, and we have no evidence Richard’s been abusive. Definitely a bad role model, but not a dad actually mistreating his son or with a bad relationship with him. He did a terrible job raising him with respect for women and out of toxic masculinity (which is sadly, not uncommon among parents of young men) but he is not an abusive parent, nor does he mistreat Joe, which is the metric I’m using here.
I kinda doubt Willis’s priority here is shocking plot twists. It’s a character-driven comic and people tend to be products of their own upbringing to some extent, so of course a lot of things are telegraphed. I think it’d be a rather different comic if they weren’t.
Also – stories where abuse is actually a misreading of the other person or the situation are a lot more common than actual ongoing stories about abuse.
Hmm… so, previously it was “Let’s give ‘Sir’ a chance. Maybe Ruth’s just batshit.” Now it’s “Willis’s shitty writing creates another abusive white dad ragebeast. What a surprise. *eyeroll*” Some folks were wondering where the apologism went; there you go.
So, we don’t know much about Ruth’s parents, other than that they’re dead. I gather it was similar in “It’s Walky!”? I dunno; never read it. But now we know that, as in that universe, her dad was “unfaithful,” although perhaps we’re dealing with an unreliable narrator in Demon Clint. At any rate, maybe it’s true that Ruth’s dad was kind of a jackass. If that turns out to be the case, why then would you suppose her mother–the abuser Clint’s beloved daughter–ended up falling for an asshole? I WONDER.
Of course this is just speculation, but it would make sense if the reason Clint liked her so much was she meekly acquiesced to his abusive bullshit, like a “good” little girl, but that same attitude that he drilled into her lead her to the arms of another shitty abuser. If that turns out to be true, I wonder if Clint has enough awareness that such a truth could be used against him? I don’t want Clint to get beaten to a pulp. He’s a soldier; he can deal with violence. I want him to face a Horrifying Truth he has refused to accept delivered with divine fury. I want to see him cry. Like, an ugly cry.
Actually I would settle for him just shutting the Hell up and going away forever.
… I keep getting to these comments late. Maybe I should become a morning person if I want to meaningfully contribute to discussion. Or just stay up past midnight. On a work night.
That does tend to be the cycle. Denial up until there’s no means to do so and then it’s all “ugh, how predictable”. It’s happened for pretty much every abusive character in the strip.
I wish it didn’t.
FWIW, which is probably nothing in this case, Ruth’s father was hooking up with Billie’s mother while both were still married to their respective spouses. Ruth walked in on them and found out; Ruth’s parents later split.
And yeah, that is an incredibly annoying and infuriating cycle of “oh that’s so predictable.” Maybe there’s a reason it keeps coming up in the backstories of very broken people!
I’d like to note that that first paragraph is only applicable to the Walkyverse.
I thought I’d said something about that but I guess not.
It’s also part of Walkyverse Ruth’s terribly-written (by Willis’s own feelings on the matter) backstory; I believe he said that DoA Ruth has an entirely different backstory.
Oh, no… if something similar happened in the Dumbiverse, and Ruth blames herself for events that led to the parents’ death…
Also, for anyone wondering where the apologism went, there were at least a few posts about how this wasn’t that bad that got removed.
It’s not even their final form!
Apparently, there are jobs too big for Head Cheerleader. We need Bible Girl!
Also, I actually think I *will* refer to Clint as “Hughesless” from now on. Hughesless Piece O’Shit.
And now we know WHY she drinks…
Please tell me the old skidmark’s eye are brown. He’s got his head so far up his own butt that his eyes MUST be brown!
I am also suspecting that he is about to do something seriously stupid, to the point of being arrested! Personally, I kind of hope some other elderly geezer comes along and whoops the crap out that abusive SOB! From what he’s said, his body language, and how he’s grabbing Ruth, it’s kind of obvious what kind of schiess kofp her grandfather is!
Personally, I hope someone gives him enough of a smack down to wake him up to what he is doing!
I dunno; my eyes are green, because I am full of weird poop.
Not being American I’m not sure how to take Billies last line. Is it sarcastic, is it something Americans are expected to say to service people or something else entirely?
No, it’s become de rigueur in America to say that to veterans, along with quietly cutting funding for veteran services.
We’re a mess of a country.
We support veterans, just not… actually support veterans.
More symbolic support… that’s more about yelling at people who aren’t pro-war enough… while also demeaning actual veterans for suffering things like PTSD…
… yeah, we’re a mess of a country.
You know the difference between the US and North Korea? In North Korea, you can get paid maternity leave.
No shit, really?
Don’t feel bad! You’d be a mess of a country even if you treated your veterans better!
It’s not a standard line or anything. I think she’s flailing for a little about what to say in the wake of her maybe-punch. Wondering how much her choice of maybe-punch over punch was strategic, and how much was instinct.
That’s not a standard line? You’re expected to say it verbatim whenever a veteran is a terrible person at you.
Is that…like the ‘bless your heart’ thing? Like, it can be genuine or a fuck you, depending?
No, like, if you ever criticize a veteran you are supposed to say “And thank you for your service” after. No it doesn’t make sense.
I take it in a weirdly powerful way. Like, “Your service to your country is not negated by your awfulness to your family. Your awfulness to your family is, conversely, not negated by your service to your country.” She is telling the truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth, so help her Willis.
I guess being from NZ its not something we hear a lot, which is a shame
Veteran or not, this guy is right up there with Ross
Or ‘Mad Dog’ Morgandorffer.
Hmm. Maybe not quite Ross. But I’ll put him up with Blaine.
Or Cotton Hill
well i mean, if this guy was the cause of Ruth’s death he probably wouldn’t give a shit, or he’d blame her for being weak. kick his ass Billie, service or not he’s endangering a life
So this story’s gonna end with him getting tortured with a power drill, right?
Go get ’em Billy, he’s a jerk : D
Man, what is it with this comic and horrible congas? Between Amber’s dad, Becky’s dad, Joyce’s mom, Sal’s parents, and Ruth’s Grandad, I’m starting to wonder if having kids makes one evil.
*slides you a dollar*
Thank you for remembering Mr. Walkerton is awful too.
While he did go too far in what he just said, am I really the only one that understands where he’s coming from? And I’m sure that if Ruth did, she’d gain that much stability.
I can’t imagine where you think he’s coming from that isn’t completely horrible? Is it the ableism? The fact that he thinks she owes him something just because he did at least the bare minimum required of him by law as a guardian? The complete disregard for her well-being?
I can’t see how any of that is supposed to make Ruth “stable”.
Well, technically he wasn’t actually required by law to take in Ruth and Howard, but he’s bad enough that it’s debatable whether or not, “Well, at least he kept them out of foster care/from becoming wards of the state” is actually a good thing.
I spent time as a “Ward of the State” in group homes and foster care. It’s actually far less damaging than people seem to make it out to be. I’m not without my own issues and problems, but seriously, I’d go through all that crap in group homes over some controlling fuckwad like this asshole any day of the week. At least in a Group home, you know your lot. Your a number, but at least so is everyone else, and you work for what you have, and there are people to help you, and access to counselors and such, that you dont get otherwise unles you got a good healthcare plan and a caring family. And, some of the people that work in group homes, and take in foster children, are really great loving people. [some of them are also assholes, but really in those situations, the foster child can make sure they get replaced into a new home rather expediently if necessary.]
Once he took them in he was in fact required by law to feed, shelter them, and send them to school so he doesn’t get to act like letting them live inside the house was some kind of favor he was doing them.
Holy shit dude
He apparently hated is son-in-law so much that he’s taking it out on his own granddaughter?
I really don’t see any way that understanding him would do the slightest bit of good for Ruth in the face of the unrestrained, toxic garbage spewing out of him.
Okay, what? No seriously where is it you think he’s “coming from”? This is a man terrorizing his granddaughter, what could possibly be okay about that? What could possibly make you think anything is happening here that’s okay? These are serious questions I would appreciate an answer to them, where are you coming from here?
Where is he coming from? Other than a particularly abusive shithole?
Go on, then. Explain. This should be entertaining.
It doesn’t matter how much money Clint’s thrown at the college, stepped in and pulled strings, or how sad he is at the loss of his daughter. He can’t be that sad if he throws the fact that she and her husband died in Ruth’s face just to add insult to injury. He treats her as if the serious issues she’s sustaining due to their deaths and his actions make her a defect, and he blames her father’s influence for it. Speaking of the parallel he makes between Ruth and her father, it shows he is willing to say to her face that her dad didn’t deserve his daughter due to his mental problems, and in a latent function it drills in a message that Ruth doesn’t deserve people who will love her either. You can find the proof of this message way back when she told Billie “I’m poison.” It’s now we see it wasn’t just because she had an alcohol problem. She thinks that she is the problem because that’s what her grandfather has told her for years. And don’t think that the alleged infidelity gives anyone a reason to side with Clint. If this is how he acts towards mental illness, then it’s safe to assume that if the infidelity happened, it was not the tipping point for Clint to hate the late Mr. Lessick. It was his chance to feel justified in the terrible things he says and does. No one should feel obligated to act grateful to their abusers.
I can see where he’s coming from, inasmuch as he sees the good-for-nothing man her daughter married (who then just continued to dig himself deeper) in Ruth rather than an independent person.
I suspect he genuinely thinks he’s being magnanimous by giving Ruth even this backhanded, serrated support, and perceives it as a personal insult (delivered posthumously by Ruth’s father) that she’s messing it up.
He’s an abusive fuckwit, but I genuinely think this is a guy who could theoretically actually benefit from therapy more than some of the other terrible parental figures in this strip. I strongly doubt he will, in part because that kind of personal journey really seems to be for the young in this strip.
And also because that would be copping to the same kind of weakness that he hates so much in Ruth and her father.
He hated her father, is glad he’s dead, and his hatred of Ruth is bound up with his hatred of her dead dad. How would an understanding of this, assuming she doesn’t already understand very well since he’s not shy about telling her, offer Ruth more stability?
Just noticed this, but going back and reading my replies the last few strips of the posts of pure strong emotion vs when I post after decompressing a bit, I noticed something. When I’m less emotional, I am trying to find every excuse possible to excuse my dad’s behavior. I know he’s abusive and manipulative, but at the same time I love him and he loves me… right? I don’t know. Seeing how I feel laid out has caused a serious mind fuck which I don’t know how to process. I didn’t lie about anything he’s done, but I’ve always excused or justified it in some way. One poster mentioned narcissism and although I’ve toyed with the idea at times, I’ve never had someone else say it. I just don’t know what to think.
When we’re calmer, it’s easier to see both sides of the situation. But it’s also easier to override the emotional cues telling us that person’s behavior was unconscionable. I don’t know if that’s a helpful observation…
I despise this guy even more than toedad. Toedad was at least doing what he thought he had to for his daughter’s benefit, however misguided. THIS asshole is only interested in HIMSELF and how Ruth’s problems will reflect on HIM.
More than that, his particular type of abuse is more insidious and invisibly damaging than toedad’s. He makes me want to slap him, really hard.
I say grab his cane and break his legs with it. Let him tell people he lost those in the war too.
Billie, you’re all over the place, and I love you very much.
Game of Thrones!
Cane schmane. He’s built like a fucking Panzer. He can take it.