That is… actually a nice parallel. Willis is a bit of a comic book nerd; I wonder if this parallel occurred to him too or whether this group is a deliberate reference to BoP?
Yeah, something like this: “Ha! That doesn’t fool me! That’s Amber O’Malley dressed up in a fake Amazi-Girl costume! She doesn’t even look like Amazi-Girl!”
Testimony accepted. The Joyce human will be taken into custody for possession of illegal and unregistered weapons. Thank you for your public service, citizen.
I totally dig the revenge squad, but/and I hope Becky gets to play an instrumental role in catching Ryan. Joyce got to punch Becky’s abuser, after all — it’d be all poetic friendship time.
I seriously doubt it. In contrast to Joyce there is not a violent bone in Becky’s body. She doesn’t mind hanging out with badasses (Joyce, Dina, Amazigirl… I think Becky might have a type), but despite all the shit she’s been going through she has never once attempted violence, even in self defence.
Hugging and supporting and promising everything will be better and that she will always, ALWAYS be there for Joyce on the other hand…
It needn’t be a directly violent role. She could, like, start her shift, spot Ryan and his bros about to finish up their pizzas (and subs), and do something clever to stall them til a puncher can arrive, for example.
I was also confused because last I just saw that Dorothy was dealing with Walky and then suddenly she’s dealing with Joyce. I mean, there’s not even a “Hey Joyce, we need to talk” to transition.
Dorothy also had that random cut to talk with Becky, so it’s not like this day hasn’t been an odd one for her already. I’m convinced she’s teleporting.
I came to the comments to see if anyone else was as confused as me. I know it isn’t needed, but I think it could have acted as a nice cushion between the strips to have Dorothy shown working up the courage to talk to Joyce. Now it looks like Amazigirl and Sal grabbed her and forced her to do it imo.
Yeah, no, you’re wrong on that one, buddy. A uniform is something worn by a group of people. Unless it’s a team wearing matching outfits (a la Fantastic Four), it’s not a uniform.
Nah, superheros wear costumes. If it’s a superteam, the costumes might be uniforms, too, but even if you consider Amazi-Girl to have teamed up with Sal and the Whiteboard Dingdong Bandit here, they’re not wearing uniform costumes.
That last sentence doesn’t sound right. It’s like it’s trying to be “Would that everyone on Earth should be so lucky” and ended up tripping on its own feet.
“Everyone should be so lucky” can be ambiguous; it can be taken to mean only that not everyone is so lucky, or only that everyone would ideally be so lucky, or both.
“Would that” at the beginning of a sentence is a somewhat archaic way of expressing a wish (having nothing to do with the verb ‘will’); in “would that everyone on earth should be so lucky,” “should” is used in an unconventional way too, effectively interchangeable with “were to” (“I wish that everyone were to be so lucky.”)
“Should that everyone on Earth be so lucky” sounds like a mixed up attempt at the second version of the sentence (given by Tenzhi) to me. “Everyone should be so lucky” would probably be fine too, given the context to avoid ambiguity, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the phrase that was intended.
Anyway, the sentence as it stands makes no sense at all to me. It could be regional.
In KJV English (actually, in 1970s Oxford English as well) you use shall/should with 1st person rather than will/would. Joyce is expressing a personal wish here.
In other news: don’t overthink this. If anybody tries writing a Pulitzer-aspiring essay here, it is not Joyce but Willis. And apart from a select few serious English majors, the typical English-speaking person trying to be portentous by using Early Modern English randomly throws “thee thou -e -eth -est” into a bag and shakes, with results causing any scholar to wince and puke.
Joyce is hella good, actually. Homeschooling would be an advantage, but I suspect that she did not get to read uncensored Shakespeare (very useful for Early Modern English but of dubious moral fibre).
My Early Modern English doth cometh from early Marvel Thor. 🙂
The “Should” in that soundeth horribly wrong to me. “Would that everyone on earth e so lucky” or “Everyone on earth should be so lucky” would both worketh.
Okay, I like this strip, but come on yesterday there was already at least 2 mood whiplashes and Robin was being cartoonish to the point of uncomfortable and now we’re just here resolving this whole other arc? Where did Sal and Amazi-girl even come from anyway? Didn’t we last see Dorothy about to tutor Walky? How’d she get the time to set this up? I’m so disoriented
I think
Dorothy is happy that Joyce is so strong
Sal is a bit melancholy that she didn’t / hasn’t had anyone fight on her side, even her brother
Amazi-Girl is a bit down because her fighting for truth and justice hasn’t accomplished much in this case, to the extent that Ryan got away because of her grandstanding entrance.
Dumbing of Age usually has scene changes without building to a transition. It happens a lot. My guess is Willis decided to leave Leslie and Robin for a bit.
If you mean the start of the conversation, my guess is Willis didn’t want to do a few strips watching them tell Joyce stuff we already knew.
Just because the reader knows information a character doesn’t, doesn’t make the reveal of that information and the reaction that character has unimportant.
Ex. (spoilers)
In Breaking Bad, the audience knows Walter White is Heisenberg for four seasons before Hank finds out… that doesn’t make Hank finally discovering it any less of an important point in both his character arc and the plot of the series. If instead you suddenly jumped mid-episode to an undisclosed time later where Hank knew everything the audience knows as in the middle of punching Walter in the face, you’d have no idea what was going on.
Yeah but here Joyce doesn’t find out by her own. Instead Dorothy weighs pro and cons of telling her for a long time, and the scope of what she tells Joyce is pretty clear to the reader. So it is obvious how she now knows everything, in contrast to Breaking Bad, where Hank puzzling together Walter’s Story is of course important.
Judging by the number of other complaints in this comment section, and the lengths of assumption that folks like BBCC have to go through to explain everything we’ve missed – apparently it’s not obvious.
Like I said in another post, skipping the conversation itself isn’t what makes this page so awkward – you can do that and have it work out just fine. The problem is that we don’t get any page establishing:
1) How much time has passed since Dorothy and Walky’s relationship calculus scene. Is it thirty seconds later? An hour? The next day?
2) How did Dorothy get everyone there? How did she contact Amazigirl? This is made more awkward by #1. Not knowing how much time has passed or how anyone got there makes this really jarring.
3) Dorothy get over her anxiety about confronting Joyce. We’ve seen her struggle with it all day, sure, but up until now we’ve seen her constantly avoiding it or procrastinating, and now we’ve jumped arbitrarily to ‘she did it 35 minutes ago’
4) Where’s Becky? No, seriously, of all the people who you’d expect to show up to something like this, you’d think Joyce’s best friend would be there for sure, if even just as emotional support. Is she still at work? Again we have no idea how much time has passed so we don’t know.
Trusting your readers to fill in a few blanks of an implied conversation is one thing – demanding that they come up with an entire day’s-worth of events to explain how characters ended up in the same room together is pushing it.
A) There’s a difference between building up a discovery for four season’s worth of episodes, vs. two storylines. We’ve seen plenty of Dorothy worrying about it.
B) I don’t think I’m jumping very far tbh. Transitions happened, so I assume some time passed – how much? Not sure. She’s finished starting Walky on studying, so probably half an hour to an hour. Assuming she didn’t just calm him down from crying and leave (on a ‘we’ll start later’ kind of leaving), which would take a few minutes. I’m leaning towards the ‘half hour to an hour’ thing as Joyce has finished meeting her lab partners.
C) Dorothy walked through her room and asked Amber to come with? She texted her? AG texted Sal? She filled Dorothy in on how Sal was there and they went to her dorm to talk? Sal overheard them talking to Joyce? Dorothy told Joyce what happened and she asked to speak to Sal and AG? There’s a lot of ways and I don’t think any of them are particularly complicated.
D) We did see Dorothy decide to make up her mind about telling Joyce – after she talked to Becky. She was nervous about it, but helping Walky out lit up her motivation again after ‘campaigning’ for RA peed on it.
E) Becky is probably still at work. It looks like its still daytime, so Galasso’s is still going.
It’s fine you have a problem with it. I don’t and so I like to explain why. Sure, I’d have liked to see the conversation, but I don’t mind not.
Dorothy somehow wrapped up her study session with Walky (?) and fulfilled her plan to tell Joyce that Sal and AG had gotten a picture of Ryan; they informed Joyce that they could put the picture online if that was her desire, and they asked Joyce what to do next.
Yeah, and this is hardly the first time we’ve jumped a bit ahead of time in a scene transition – Dorothy and Walky are studying, cut to Leslie and Robin (which has probably cut forward a little bit of time – Leslie’s gotten dressed and all that, plus then she threw Robin out), Robin breaks back into the house and then cut to here, again with the assumption we’re jumping ahead maybe an hour or two. Pretty normal for cartoon cuts, in my experience. Transitions come with an implicit understanding time passed.
Yeah! The transition between the ‘Jumped’ and ‘Five Second’ stops was jarring too. (Leslie went from being bemused to angry instantly) and Dorothy’s whole day has felt really fragmented with the way it was constantly switching settings and character interactions. (The whole Becky lunch thing was also very aburpt) but this one strip is definitely the most jarring of the lot considering how much Dorothy was struggling with bringing Ryan up to Joyce. There’s no “Joyce I need to tell you something later.” And now Amazi-girl and Sales outta seemingly nowhere.
Hm?
Dotty ran into Joyce in the hall and knew she must tell her but didn’t. Carla walked in on Dotty trying to plan this out and feeling she was failing.
Then Dotty went to Walky for support, got some, found him needing some, and by helping him, got her shit together again.
This is the result.
When you are reading this not as a daily comic but in a book, rehashing all the stuff you’d read 15 minutes ago would be jarring.
And yes, I don’t remember transition like this before – but right now there is so much going on for so many characters, you’d’ need to time-skip several times else.
I know logically it’s not out of the ballpark, but for a sequential story like this an extra visual transition would be helpful here, especially since the comic prevously established that we have been going doing a play by play of Dorothy”s entire afternoon, to have a significant gap of events like this is strange. (She was just studying with Walky to something totally different) especially since she spent the whole day wrestling with this decision.
And I would argue that the primary medium of DoA IS the web. The print option is more of a bonus. The pacing needs to make sense for both. But even read in one go an extra panel would be good. Like for example when Dorothy was walking back from lunch if we could see a text message she wrote that said ‘meet up later?’ It would be less weird to see AG and Sal here
I’d say it would be better with ninjas, but not seeing any ninjas on the squad, nor in the cast list is no proof of absence. It may, however, be evidence of a superior ninja. And revenge squads in particular are generally strengthened by ninjas.
And no, despite having a color scheme nearly as flashy as one notable contemporary ninja protagonist, AG is not simply a Ninja. No, she’s better: she’s the gorram Batman.
There’s no build up to this moment, no explanation of how all these characters wound up in the same place at the same time. I might be forgetting a strip, but I can’t even remember us getting any hints of the apparent PTSD Joyce now seems to be describing.
That’s what I was thinking, to. One moment, Dorothy is tutoring Walky, and the next… she’s gathered two others together, talked with Joyce, and Joyce has made a decision. Seems there was a lot of stuff missing.
Joyce sometimes sees Ryan, and when alone with guys or even alone from her friends, when she got mad and walked ahead of the crowd and Becky a hundred? strips back.
That doesn’t answer how Amazigirl or Sal or even Dorothy got into the same room with Joyce, however.
Other than Dorothy stressing about this conversation this entire storyline and a good chunk of the last one?
“no explanation of how all these characters wound up in the same place at the same time.”
….Dorothy texts AG to come tell Joyce with her, AG gets Sal (I’m assuming she remembers her phone number from putting the app on her phone the other night. …Or she checked the school directory and found her room). They go to Joyce’s and talk to her. I don’t think it’s anything more complicated than that, and there’s no real reason this needs a strip detailing it.
“I might be forgetting a strip, but I can’t even remember us getting any hints of the apparent PTSD Joyce now seems to be describing.”
Yeah, you’re forgetting several SEVERAL strips. Damn you, memory! Check the ‘Ryan’ tag. Or any of the discussion Joyce had with Sal about how she hates walking places alone. Or Becky telling Joyce it’s okay, she and Dina are with her, she doesn’t need to be worried about her walking alone.
So the explanation of how any of this scene was set up is “eh, the details aren’t important”?
I’m not saying we need 8 pages dedicated to Dorothy scrolling through the contacts of her phone, I’m not even saying you could get away with just having them show up at Joyce’s room, cutting to Leslie and Robin, and then cutting back to what’s been posted today.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with letting your audience fill in the gaps to exclude unnecessary exposition or scenes, but you have to set that sort of thing up, not just throw them into it.
Imagine watching a movie with every establishing shot cut out – no indication of where the characters are or how much time has passed (or even that time has passed at all), no transitions of any kind.
Except we DO know where they are and, again, the point of a transition is ‘eh, not much more to see here, let’s cut to something else’. We’ve been seeing Dorothy angst about this this entire storyline – we knew it was most likely coming up. So I’m okay skipping the conversation filled with stuff we already know. Grabbing AG and Sal really isn’t a complicated or difficult explanation when texting exists, so I don’t have a real problem with it not being shown.
Sadly, something like this occurring in real life would (and does) get the woman making the claim harassed by total strangers. An RL friend of mine recently got her back broken (not severely – she can still walk, but has a 6-week recovery time) by her ex-boyfriend, and she had certain ITG’s claiming that she must have done something to deserve it.
Yeah, that fucking shit is infuriating and I swear is a major red flag that the asshole doing it has probably assaulted or raped someone themselves. I remember when I first started talking about my assault, how I had several people try to go amateur detective on me and try and “prove” how I couldn’t possibly have been raped because I froze during the assault.
And that was getting off easy compared to what has happened to friends of mine when they’ve talked about their assaults.
It’s also why I have zero patience for apologists of this kind of shit.
Also, *massive appropriate gesture of support* to your friend. That’s incredibly shitty and it’s even more shitty that people are harassing her while she’s still in recovery.
Joyce over this comic has gone from annoying super Christian bible thumper to strong badass awesome person who is still a Christian but flexible in her views and willing to learn and change. She gets more awesome each day. Thank you for creating her. I know she’s partly autobiographical, but she’s still awesome in her own right.
Joyce wants to do what’s right, no matter what, just like Becky said.
That last panel is such a Joyce thing to say, and normally she would put herself in the position that fight for her friends (again, as Becky can attest to). But she also accept to be the one to be helped and accept that her friends fight her fight. That can be a tough thing to do.
And I love the power poses of Amazi-girl and Sal combined with Dorothy in full support mode. They are there for you, Joyce.
Sal is adjusting her self image through Joyce’s eyes. I don’t think that she sees herself as part of the group or a protector, whereas Joyce accepts almost everyone as family until proven otherwise.
Amazi-Girl is just plain shocked that it is possible to experience trauma without shattering.
I feel like she’s surprised at how positive Joyce’s reaction is. She already gained a good deal of respect for Joyce from her badassery during the car chase with Ross, but I don’t think it occurred to her that “tough but upbeat” was even an option
I’ve made no secret of how critically important consent and boundary stuff is to me and how it’s a major piece of my activism. It’s the thing that drives me more than anything else, makes me more willing to take massive risks and it’s something I can’t just ignore and turn a blind eye to even if fighting it puts me at personal risk.
I’ve also made no secret of my frustrating saga at work with the kid who got assaulted, who I recognized was at risk a month before it happened, warned administration, only to see them ignore it, let the kid get raped on campus in an area that should have been monitored, and then abuse the kid afterwards in the desperation to make it all go away. And that saga has been extra frustrating because I had to let the shitlords who did that get away with it because the kid is done fighting this shit and there is nothing in the verse that will make me go against a survivor’s attempt to refind agency after an assault.
But still it’s hard doing a lot of sexual assault support because 99 times out of a 100, the bad guys win. The rapist gets away with it, the shitty authority figures face no repercussions for making a bad situation worse, and a lot of the activism is just focused on keeping them alive.
And having this particular fucked up affair occur at a time when I finally had some small piece of power that I’ve never had before and a time our country decided to elect a man who inappropriately touched little kids on stage in front of the whole world and has admitted on microphone to raping people, just made it hit all the more, making me feel powerless.
But this… reminded me that what I’ve done to try matters. Joyce’s face in Panels 3 and 5 remind me a lot of the kid I tried to help. What he said when he thanked me for getting him the resource that interrupted his suicide attempt. What he said when he found out what the teachers were doing to fight for him. What he said when I told him I’d back him 100%.
I have a bad time internalizing things like that because to me fighting on things like this is just basic humanity. And because I have a bad time giving myself credit for anything positive I do. But this comic actually reminded me that I did something and it ended up mattering even if it never actually took down any of the bastards involved.
And hey, it might have at least shook up my shitlord of a boss because today I read him the riot act about another student being touched without consent (albeit thankfully nonsexually) who is recovering from a history that involved sexual assault and he actually responded with actual consequences for the offending student after trying to initially sell me on the same old boys will be boys horseshit.
And that’s not nothing. (Ugh, I hate that I still feel so self-conscious about saying anything positive about my own actions, even ones I’m proud of).
You should never be afraid to speak about the things you do. Because this world would be a better place if everyone had even a fraction of your drive to help make things right for those who need it most. People like you are the reason that I still believe humanity has a chance to flourish and live together in harmony until the stars burn down to nothing.
I myself have led a pretty cushy, safe, and privileged life, but even I can attest to just how much it can mean to see someone stand up for you when life takes a nasty turn, especially if it feels like the world has turned on you. To be expecting a final knife in your back, to be waiting for it, only to turn and find someone shielding you instead can be life-changing.
Even if you don’t win the battle, even if you can’t win it, I know you’ve made a huge difference simply by joining the fight.
Becky: “Okay, Joyce. Two things. First, it is so freaking cool that you know so many amazing people willing to kick so much ass for you and even a stranger like me! So cool! Second…I’m just gonna go ahead and apologize right now for all the four way premarital hanky panky I’ll be picturing you guys doing in the future. And…by future I may mean five minutes ago..”
I do enjoy Sal’s shorts+tights. Though longer shorts would be more apt for combat usefulness.
So.. dorothy research.
amazgirl bruser.
Sal.. everything and anything else?
Panel 1: Joyce’s face here is perfect. Firm resolve, blue eyes brimming over with rage, brow furrowed, mouth curled.
I recognize that face intimately. It’s the face I wear when I hear about some unjust bullshit. It’s an exterior brimming underneath with a powerful fury.
And the fact that it’s so all-in also shows how valuable Joyce’s previous weekend of hell was for her. How it’s allowed her to access her anger to obliterate her self-doubt with shit like this and no longer internalize that she deserved it or should hide it lest her parents try to remove her. And I imagine a part of it is realizing she’s already fucked with her mom on that score, but that she has her dad’s support no matter what and her sister’s.
Panel 2: Dorothy is a perfect cinnamon roll here. On her knees on that shitty threadbare carpet they have in dorms so her eyes can be level with Joyce’s. Making sure Joyce’s consent is absolutely informed to the maximum by confirming with her the reality of the situation and making sure Joyce knows that before they do anything.
It’s a perfect counterpoint of agency in response to its violent theft. And it shows just how good Dorothy is at this stuff when she isn’t getting sucked into “campaigning” herself and thus presenting these skills instead of just… doing them.
*strums the chorus line to Sonic Heroes’ “We Can”*
We can make it if we all stick together…
We won’t give up not ever, and everything”s gonna be aaalright!
We all bring out the best things in each other…
Together we are stronger than anyone else could be on their own!
So much better than alone…
CONTENT WARNING: PTSD descriptions relating to sexual assault
Panel 3: Fucking flashbacks.
No, like, the PTSD flashbacks are one of the worst parts of rape and what frequently makes this crime so exceedingly awful and why anyone who minimizes this crime or tries to sell some sob story about “false rape accusations” can fuck off into a lake.
Having to relive the body horror of the event randomly for years afterwards. Feeling your violator on you when no one’s there or worse, when your partner is there and holding you. Being unable to control when they’ll pop up. Are you at work? With family? In public? Fun fucking times. Having the most random things trigger you back to that hellish place and becoming non-functional for a bit as your body rehashes it all ad nauseum. Just having your whole body betray you in the goal of moving on and re-establishing agency.
It’s… infuriating. Like it’s also painful and scary and debilitating, but most of all it’s maddening, because the flashbacks tend to sit like a log and serve no purpose other than serving as a marker for the traumatic event. And so frequently it gets paired with all sorts of other lingering body bullshit (anxiety related, depression related, and so on).
It’s also why I have no patience for people who make “trigger warning” jokes. Because I’ve dealt with my fair share of triggers and fucking hell, I need those warnings to avoid having to deal with lost time as I claw my way back from reliving the feel of… that shit and untense my back. So I can prepare my mental defenses and get the part of my body that keeps feeling him on me against something solid so it doesn’t feel like he’s right next to me.
I don’t know what to say that doesn’t sound chliched. I’m sorry.
Flashbacks… are terrible. At least mine are only emotional and don’t really include physical sensations. I can only begin to imagine what total flashbacks are like.
… I have never heard anyone describe my experience of assault so well. Thank you for putting it in words.
I got assaulted and a week or so later went caving with a friend and had a huge freakout flashback. I was scared of caving for years after that, and I love caves! And I was just so angry because it was one more way some asshole who probably barely remembered me was reaching into my life in a way I hadn’t given permission for.
Panel 4: Oh Dorothy, you lucky lucky person you, no, this sort of conversation is rarely what ruins days. The flashbacks and the lingering traumas are what ruin days. People standing up for you, letting you know despite all your brain trying to blame you for not noticing or doing something to have avoided being assaulted, that you did not deserve this, that you deserve justice?
That shit matters. It mattered to me recovering from my assault. And it’s something I try and provide every person I know who has been assaulted. Because I know only too well how easily it is to get locked in a cycle of self-blame, especially in a culture that is only too happy to blame a survivor for their rape before ever blaming the rapist.
Panel 5: And that’s the reason for the soft smile here. I’ve already mentioned how resonant this feels, so I won’t rehash, but seriously, this is a beautiful fucking moment that made me blub. I’m not ashamed to say.
Panel 6: This first line ruined me in a good way. Because it reminds me that I’ve heard lines like this from the folks I’ve tried to fight for. It reminds me that while I feel powerless and worthless, that I’ve done something and that matters.
And that’s a hard thing to cling to sometimes.
And yeah, that triumvirate, that powerful triumvirate backing her up. That’s powerful. A superhero, a genius, and one of the most compassionate rebel badasses you can find. They might not be able to do anything real. Rape culture is nasty that way and the system heavily protects rapists and makes it almost impossible to get any real revenge on them.
But it’s a powerful team nonetheless.
And again, I’m just a wreck about this whole panel. It’s just too damn resonant and powerful in a good way.
Panel 6 is fascinating in a way. Sal and Amazi-Girl seem genuinely shocked; despite everything they’ve seen, they still manage to be surprised every time Joyce shows her enormous reserves of personal strength. Sal, in particular, seems to be having a “Well, you think that you know people!” moment.
Panel 2 through to 4 are important when you look at it sideways too: Joyce has consciously decided to stop running away from what Ryan did to her. She is no longer letting the trauma rule her. Rather, she is accepting it and moving on in an attempt to help others.
Yeah, she’s making an active choice to regain agency and that is such a key part of healing and a sign that she’s grown a lot since the attempted assault took place.
Just a thought I had that might make some people happier.
It’s possible Ryan sees Joyce in HIS nightmares.
This is probably meaner of me than it should be (because his suffering does not help Joyce, and because it might drive him all the more to “settle” things with her) but that thought gives me a warm feeling inside.
Yeah. Unfortunately I expect that, within the year 2017, we’re going to see Ryan on panel making some attempt against at least one of these girls (whether that’s directly or indirectly). Sal and Amazigirl he has motive against due to the events at the DeSanto rally. Joyce he has motive against due to her not giving in to him and then glassing him at the party (Sarah may be at risk for similar reasons). Dorothy (or maybe Amber) is going to be a thing because it’s probable she’s going to stupidly release that photo from an account that can eventually be linked back to her, and guys like Ryan have, at least since 2013 or 2014, a certain fraternity of nasty individuals willing to help them who have zero compunctions about doxing people like her (female and “making trouble”).
*Enter series of panels where, during the flashbacks of Joyce getting the rundown of plans, it shifts Mission Impossible style. Showing a montage of action and blueprinting scenes.* Shenanigains ensue, aaand Scene.
-Just a job well done by the League of Awesome squad.
So they have a name and a photo. Why have they not gone to the police with this? What on earth makes them think putting the information on social media is the best way to handle this situation?
Maybe because Who assaulted Whom and How is a matter the police and prosecutors might have trouble dealing with. The only provable attack is by Joyce on Ryan.
…except they’d need to know his full name and address to get a search warrant, so they’d need to learn those without tipping him off, then hope a judge thinks they have enough probable cause for a search.
Easy enough to find out, knowing the campaign employed him. Freida would certainly stonewall Dorothy, but not the cops. Hell, the name is probably in the police report filed about the incident at the campaign rally.
She would absolutely stonewall the cops unless they had a warrant compelling her to provide the information, which I doubt they’d be able to get.
You’re also assuming anyone filed a police report at the rally.
Considering how quick Frieda was to spin the situation as one of her interns being attacked by a vigilante (instead of the other way around, like what actually happened) I strongly doubt she called the police.
She was obviously far more concerned with how the campaign would be affected than whether the accusations against Ryan were true or not.
Yeah, Robin’s already got a scandal. If word gets out they hired a roofie rapist, she may as well drop out now and let Manley run unopposed. This is definitely the kind of thing Freida would do her damnedest to bury if she could – which she probably could unless they have a warrant.
The report would of course be about the vigilante and the thug attacking one of the staff, not about whatever the vigilante’s accusations were.
It’s possible. Robin’s campaign is obviously completely inept, so they could have let it slide. No serious business is not going to report an attack on an employee – even a volunteer – in the course of the job. Fear of lawsuits if nothing else. The security firm has it all documented as well, to cover their ass.
Frankly, I’m surprised it’s not all over the news – or at least talk radio and social media as “costumed protester and urban thug attack staff and threaten Congresswoman!”
As for the scandal, maybe? Hard to know how such things would play out – especially if it was just “Found out a volunteer is an alleged rapist. We are cooperating with the police investigation.” Covering it up is what would get them in trouble. Which is a standard political response, I’ll admit.
They could also go completely over the top and play up the false accusations against an upstanding son of a preacher man angle. Probably win them votes.
If the file a report, the police would look into it, interview people who were at the rally, looking for actual witnesses to the fight. Who might tell them the truth, and may have also heard what AG said, and tell them about that as well.
We already know Frieda prefers the “cover that shit up immediately” option because that was her immediate reaction at the rally.
Admitting he was hired in the first place can also open them up to attack ads for not doing careful enough background checks – unjustifiably imo, as this wouldn’t come up in a background check because he’s (as far as we know) never been caught, but politics is a dirty game that’ll drag you through the dirt.
If he was actually on campaign payroll, maybe. If he was somewhere high up in the ranks, more likely. He was an unpaid volunteer handing out campaign literature at one rally. Nobody would even touch that story.
…Which Frieda already started doing when she tried to spin it as AG being the aggressor.
Which isn’t exactly some insane hypothetical scenario I’m dreaming up. It happens. Even when there’s a lot more evidence. College campuses and the political arena are two areas where there’s a lot of assholes who care more about the fiction “that kind of thing just doesn’t happen here!” than actually working to ensure that it doesn’t.
I can see it getting picked up, since it caused a stir at the rally….and then if the other campaign gets hold of that initial pick up, they will not let it die down because smear campaigning is something politics has gotten good at.
Because they know at this point the police aren’t going to accomplish anything. Allegations with no physical evidence weeks after the fact don’t get any real attention.
Going to social media may not get him punished, but it might help warn other potential targets to be wary.
I’m proud of you, Joyce. 🙂 But this bears saying, you don’t know yet what you’re in for. I have read interviews given by survivors of sexual assault who went to court to press charges, and… the phrase “hauled over the coals” comes to mind. Your character will be attacked, implied you were “inviting it”, and in this age of modern communications, you can even expect hate mail and possibly death threats from strangers you don’t even know. The fact that you glassed Ryan will also be used against you.
Worst of all, I’m a bit afraid what your parents (OK, CAROL…) might think (or do) if this comes out.
It takes a lot of courage and strength to go fight for justice in the courts, but I also know that it’s a fight that can be utterly exhausting and so time-consuming, that I don’t blame those who choose to simply bury it and get on with their lives. I’m not choosing any sides here; I just want to point out that assault survivors need nothing less than total support regardless of what THEY want to do. They shouldn’t be forced in either direction. Let them choose how they want to proceed with their healing. If choosing to forget it is better, good on them. If choosing to press charges is better, good on them.
Now I’ve thought about it in respect to panel 6, I can’t get it out of my head: Joyce narrating in retrospective from years down the line: “I knew the Angels when they were just discovering who they were.”
Couldn’t they like, have given the picture and all relevant information to the police instead? Getting him put into police custody immediately should have been the priority. There were lots of witnesses at the party, and ideally this kind of case should be pursued legally while the evidence is still fresh.
As much as capes are awesome, sometimes law enforcement is best left to the professionals.
What do they have? A couple of month-old witness statements and a blurry photograph. The investigation will take months and, if was implied, Ryan is from a socially prominent (and possibly wealthy) family, he WILL get bail and WILL act to attempt to silence his accusers, assuming that he is charged several months down the line.
No, attempting to make him notorious so that girls avoid him may be more efficacious in limiting his ability to commit further attacks in the future. At the very least, it may damage him enough that he cannot continue to rely on the support of his family and associates because they don’t want the muck aimed at him splattering on them too.
Assumption 1: Getting him arrested is preferable to him not being arrested.
Assumption 2: He won’t be arrested unless the cops are notified.
Assumption 3: The evidence decays with time, so if the cops are called, they should be called as soon as possible.
The consequence of these three assumptions suggest that the cops should be called immediately, isn’t it? Regardless of whether the guy is actually convicted, forcing him to explain to his family why he is being charged for rape is already a good result.
Putting his photo online isn’t guaranteed to work either now, is it? Let’s look at a simple numbers game: how many rapists in your area have you seen “please avoid”-pictures of, compared to how many rapists in your area got convicted? I’d assume the latter is much higher.
“Assumption 2: He won’t be arrested unless the cops are notified.”
But odds are, he won’t be arrested even if the cops are notified. Sal was right on that one. We’re talking about a son of a preacherman here. The wannabe “president” was right on that one: The higher up you are, the more you can get away with.
And even if he was, cops tend to do everything to cast doubt on what happened, asking all sort of questions that is designed to put suspicion on the victim.
“Regardless of whether the guy is actually convicted, forcing him to explain to his family why he is being charged for rape is already a good result.”
Yeah, because obviously they would not ever consider taking his side and thinking that Joyce was, in one way or another, “asking for it”. I mean, it’s not like fundie preachers (Gashface’s father is one) tend to look at women as nothing but vessels of temptation made by the devil to lead honest men astray or something, right?
Oh, and Brock Turner’s dad says hi, by the way. Remember him? THe “my son’s being punished for twenty minutes of fun” guy?
“Also, it’s not like Joyce doesn’t have any connections of her own. Robin was informed about the ordeal and took Joyce’s side”
Joyce doesn’t know that. Even Dorothy doesn’t know that. Only one who does is Leslie, and right now Leslie is far too busy dealing with Robin employing creepy stalker tactics to be of any help. So as far as Joyce is concerned with the knowledge she currently has at her disposal, this is her only choice.
All three assumptions are true. Problem is as the Emperor says, the best assumption is he won’t be arrested even if they go to the cops now. Calling the cops to the scene when it happened would have been the way to go – even after he got away. At least they would have had physical evidence – drugs in Joyce’s system and the glass, blood tying him to the scene and likely evidence tying him to the glass as well.
Without that, you’ve got Joyce’s friend’s testimony to her apparent drugged state, her testimony to his words and actual physical and witness evidence that he was attacked and injured.
Even a sympathetic and aggressive prosecutor would have trouble getting beyond a reasonable doubt on this.
Though I’d add: It’s still worth going to the police. Ryan has done almost certainly done this before and will likely do it again. If any of those are reported and a pattern can be detected, that makes a big difference.
The big problem is getting to the ‘getting him arrested’ step. There really is no guarantee that this would happen with what evidence they have available to and the unfortunate attitude the police too often have to sexual assault claims.
Also, let’s not forget that Robin could now be a lame duck, depending on how badly her stalking Leslie before the camera lenses of the press blows up in her face.
Regarding assumption 3: the only physical evidence is already gone. The drug is out of Joyce’s system, and that house has no doubt been cleaned and partied in multiple times since then.
Joyce only has Sarah’s testimony to prove Ryan tried to assault her. Even with a perfect system, it’d be hard to convict him, and it would still be a long, painful process even if conviction were guaranteed.
And it very much isn’t guaranteed. Even if they’d gone to the police that night, it’s quite possible Joyce would have had to fight just to get him charged, unless they found the drugs on him if/when they caught him.
Yes, ideally every victim of sexual assault would go to the police, to maximize the number of sleaze bags that go to jail. But ideally, that process would have a far greater chance of a just result, and take a much lower emotional toll on people who’ve already been through something traumatic.
CONTENT WARNING: Abuse by cops, sexual assault, victim-blaming
This is basically a general response to the “why didn’t they go to police” questions and arguments, so hopefully this doesn’t come off as specifically going off on you as a lot of people have this question and it comes up a lot from people who haven’t had the misfortune of dealing with cops after an assault.
The reason Joyce in particular didn’t go to the cops is simple. She was scared she would be pulled out of school away from her developing support networks if she reported the crime as her parents would just interpret it as “pre-marital hanky-panky” and that would likely come with lots of abuse from that direction for “not protecting her womanhood” better.
There are other reasons as well, those being Sarah more likely to be arrested for physically assaulting the rapist than the rapist being arrested, no evidence with regards to him in specific being behind the drugging, no drugs left in the system when they could check in with Joyce for consent about what to do next, it being more important at the time to get Joyce somewhere safe, and concern about cops taking it seriously.
And that connects to some of the major reasons most people don’t report to cops and that’s the fact that cops are fucking horrible on sexual assault. On the physical level, a lot of the procedures to produce the rape kit are horrifyingly invasive (especially after an assault) and that’s for a rape kit that is frequently left to languish.
And that’s just the physical cause the rest is just… ugh. A lot of cops treat the person reporting the sexual assault as a criminal and actively distrust victims and believe a lot of myths about rape from movies that make them more likely to dismiss the accounts of those reporting especially if that person is in any way marginalized. So things like knowing the person before hand (which is the vast majority of assaults) or having any other traumatic response than fight is treated as “proof” of consent.
On top of that, cops try and actively discourage folks from reporting sexual assaults and are frequently abusive to the folks recording them. The student that got raped on campus got told by the investigating cops that he probably deserved it and that he was wasting their time reporting it and if he wanted to kill himself about it, he should decide quick so they could figure out a 5150 or not and were just overall awful (I was fighting to bring in a rape advocate during it (I was not successful) but another teacher was in and related all this as did the kid after the fact).
And there was another friend who got assaulted in front of a grocery store and I was there for when she reported it and listened as the cop tried to argue that because she saw the guy on a bus once before, she clearly knew him and thus clearly consented and repeatedly told her that they weren’t going to do a real investigation so she shouldn’t report and basically put her through a half-hour of hell and only then start actually taking the statement of what happened.
Basically almost everyone I know who reported have similar stories of cops being shitty afterwards and re-traumatizing and making them feel like it was all their faults or they were idiots or that they have no real recourse because no one in authority is taking things seriously. And studies into cop behaviors back this up noting a high level of reporters reporting secondary abuse from the cops and a high number of cops holding rape myths*.
*Basically, things like “rape is a stranger with a knife in the bushes who attacks you while you’re sober and you clearly yell no and try and fight him off and you were a virgin” otherwise it doesn’t “count”.
And if you get through that battery of hell to make it to the courts, the survivor tends to be the one on trial with their sexual history and every text or tweet they have ever made being used against them (there was a woman who shared about being raped as a virgin by a stranger with a knife like the myth goes, but being dismissed as a (slur for woman who has sex) because she tweeted a joke about blowjobs once and so totally must have consented to attack knife play.
And the surrounding community tends to be brutal to people who report, because it’s “ruining those poor men’s lives” and “she’s clearly lying” so you get an epic amount of harassment about it, especially if the person who raped you as any semblance of power (like say the son of a preacher). And on top of that, you’ve got MRA rapist douchebags who rant all the time about “false rape accusations” and love trolling court logs for people trying to prosecute rapists so they can harass the victims and basically call them lying sluts trying to ruin a man’s life.
And then, if you manage to get through all that, juries are heavily slanted against sexual assault victims and so frequently even if you have video evidence of the rape with the rapist admitting they committed it on camera, it tends to frequently end in a not guilty verdict especially if the offender is white and male and rich.
And if you succeed with all of that, the rapist tends to only end up with a couple of year sentence if that (as we saw in the Brock Turner) case and frequently the harassment continues for years while the rapist can much more easily reintegrate (Brock Turner is actually earning shitloads of money to go to campuses and basically say “the trick to not getting raped is to never drink alcohol” while his victim is still being harassed and inundated by douchebags who are sad that she “ruined his life”).
So a lot of folks look at that and go “fuck that noise” especially if they don’t have an airtight case of being raped by a stranger with recorded evidence of being too impaired to consent. Cause it can be a lot of abuse for no real worthwhile payoff. And that can make it harder to recover because it can keep you reliving it over and over for months as the “investigation” proceeds and goes nowhere and the initial barrage of victim-blaming nonsense from authority figures makes it even easier to internalize self-hating messages.
And that’s not all on cops. There’s a whole broken rape culture that has a lot of baggage invested in the word but no real political or social will to do anything real about the actual problem or what causes it. And it allows a system this broken to exist with 1 in 6 women, 1 in 10 men, and 1 in 5 transgender folks reporting experiencing a rape and that’s likely massively undercounting.
And with 6% of men stating they have committed a rape if you only describe the action rather than use the word. And for America to elect an admitted rapist to its highest office.
It’s honestly a piece of art as far as sociology surveys go as it’s a brilliant way to get meaningful numbers to something that is notoriously difficult to get reliable numbers about (because most people aren’t just going to admit to being rapists if you ask them). But it’s also horrifying in what it means as well as it’s notes about how many rapes the 1% of serial rapists in those numbers commit on average.
And as if that 1 in 6 number isn’t bad enough, estimates go to 1 in 4 women worldwide. I’ve heard it’s 1 in 3 for Native women in Canada. Just……eugh. Never look into rape statistics if you want to feel at all clean ever again.
One of my long term goals is to get data on ace folks, cause based on informal observation, I’d say we tend to get assaulted or coerced a lot and it’d be nice to have some numbers to back up.
And yeah, researching rape can get pretty depressing because of how pervasive it is and how bad the public response to it is. Which I guess is why it’s the activism that always most pulls me. That and the fact that I belong to the three groups most targeted for corrective rape (ace, trans, lesbianish).
I’d be interested to see that hypothetical study too. I’d like to see more disaggregated data regarding victims of crime anyways, but YES to more information on asexual rape.
The majority (as in >50%) of autistic women, according to best available data. 4 in 5 (as in 80%) of women with intellectual disabilities. 30% of men with intellectual disabilities. in the case of people with intellectual disabilities, 50% of those who’ve been assaulted once have been assaulted >10 times.
Sexual violence is more prevalent the more ways in which a person is marginalized. Would not be surprised if corrective rape is a thing a lot of aces run into.
MASSIVE TW for victim-blaming further down in the comment. Starts 3rd paragraph down.
In Canada, 1 in 5 sexual assault complaints are deemed “unfounded” (i.e., no crime occurred according to cops). In my region, that’s up to 1 in 3.
In some parts of the country, it’s over 90%. One jurisdiction had 100% of their reported sexual assaults deemed “unfounded” (and, before you ask, they had 19 reported sexual assaults. It’s not like they had a sample size of 1).
And that’s without even going into the social backlash. “Why are you ruining such a nice guy’s life?” “Are you sure you’re not being over-sensitive?” “Are you sure you didn’t just misunderstand?” “Sometimes the way we remember things and the way they happened aren’t the same.” “Why didn’t you say no?” “Why didn’t you fight back?” “What were you wearing?” “What were you doing in a bar?” “What were you doing in a parking lot after dark?” (In Canada. Where for a not insignificant time of the year “after dark” = “after about 4:30 PM”) “I bet you wanted it and you’re having second thoughts.” “Are you sure this isn’t a case of buyer’s remorse?” “You should never have let them get your clothes off! What’s wrong with you?” “You should’ve stood up for yourself! If you don’t sock him one, how does he know you don’t want it? You could just be joking.” (yes, I am telling you to hit a guy who is 10 years your senior and over 100lbs heavier and has 2.5 ft on you in height, 8YO kid I’m speaking to). “You know how girls are these days. They’re 8 going on 28.” “You led him on. You’re a slut.” “Why would a hockey star want a fat flat cow like you? I think you’re making it up for attention.” “Ok but think about the affect you’re having on his life. His reputation is ruined! And why? Over a few hurt feelings? Come on, be reasonable!”
^ That’s just a small sampling of stuff I, personally have been told about childhood sexual abuse. Some of which came from teachers, some came from my parents, some came from other kids, some came from community members. My cases (yes, plural) never even got to the cops because kid me figured nobody believes me anyway the cops aren’t going to either so fukkit.
Frankly, for me, the social backlash after the assaults was always worse than the assaults themselves. I can’t even. I just… I stopped reporting around 16 (I’ve been assaulted since then, too) because I just can’t take being hated for something other people did to me. I can’t take being presumed guilty until proven innocent. Especially since I don’t “trauma” in the stereotypical way. My emotions go away and I’m on auto-pilot until the traumatic thing is done and then I slooowly decompress over weeks. It’s not crying or freaking out or hysterical laughter or what have you. I act like a robot, except the lights are on but nobody’s home.
But people think if you’re not sobbing hysterically and broken and unable to function, you’re not traumatized. And that’s just… not true. I’ve been traumatized many times – but that’s just not how I process trauma, and hasn’t been since I went through hell for 12 years with bullying etc as a kid. If I broke down the way TV expects “true” victims to every time I was traumatized as a kid, I never would’ve been able to function at all – so I learned how to function while broken.
So, yeah. In college, I could be jumped in a bar and sexually assaulted and fight off the assailant have the bruises to show for it… and then go to class as if nothing happened the next day. And I did, once. Cuz that’s what childhood forged me to do. But that I can look and act fine doesn’t mean I am. But that I can look and act fine does mean nobody will realize that I’m checked out emotionally and might not come back to myself for a few weeks, and everyone who I tell in the meantime will think I’m lying.
*Appropriate gesture of support* because all of that is so awful.
And yeah, I didn’t end up reporting my rape because I saw what happened to too many friends who did and how much worse the cops made them feel and knew I wouldn’t be able to take it.
And yeah, I’m very much the same after a trauma. Sometimes it even takes me a little time to realize what just happened and so I’m perfectly “normal” right after a horrible incident as my brain catches up and puts together the pieces of what I narrowly avoided.
In the incident where the guy mused to his friend about circling back to kill me because I dared to be trans when he was harassing me and my girlfriend as “hot lesbos”, I actually crossed the street, went into a restaurant and ordered food before it fully hit me what had just happened.
I dunno, my trauma response is freeze, so I think my brain ends up needing time to reboot right afterwards.
This is what I felt like when people started punching Nazis. My friend told me that the were sorry about all the news lately, what with my being Jewish and all, and I had to say I actually felt far more invigorated than I did hurt. I already knew that Nazis and white supremacists existed, and I knew that fascism and antisemetism were on the rise.
But Nazi-punching being so publicly and powerfully endorsed? People fighting openly against that kind of stuff? I gotta say, it really caught me off guard. Even if the situation isn’t great, knowing there are people on your side feels amazing.
Ditto. It really makes all the difference when dealing with nazis to know that folks got your back. That literally saved my life in Denmark and it feels powerful to see signs of hope here.
“True, the way you worded your fictional conversation [back in this strip] is of course somewhat blunt, Dorothy. But I choose to believe that you know this too, and that you would in fact be far more gentler leading into the topic than this when you really talk to her. And if you are in fact doing that, if you are leading it in gently and with the care and love for Joyce I know you have… Well, Joyce may very well surprise you.
You already know she’s strong.
What you may not quite realise is that she’s growing stronger.”
Joyce, you perfect summer shower that makes that wonderful “smell after rain” afterwards! I knew it! I knew you were stronger than Dorothy feared!
And I knew that AS ALWAYS, you’re thinking of other people! Of course you are. Because what you really wish is for people to be happy and safe. True, you’ve had some rather misguided views on how to make that happen (thanks to a somewhat shitty upbringing in terms of “morals”), but dammit if that core part of you isn’t shining through so hard right now, it almost burns my eyes to look at.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: You’re a better human being than I am, Joyce.
Oh, and also: Just as predicted, this conversation just ended up strengthening Joyce’s friendship with Dorothy, to the point that it’s now becoming so solid, you could build a skyscraper on it.
Random update. I talked to my landlord today. She had no idea that what she did would bother me. Also, the people she introduced me to as polysexual were her husband and her transwoman tenet. She wanted us to know that we weren’t the only LGBTQ+ in the complex. I told her it was okay and I’m glad she did it, but most of the time I like to feel a person out before telling them because I don’t like the drama I catch from bigots. She understood and apologized. It doesn’t make up for how the librarian reacted that day, but at least I feel better about who my landlord told.
Also randomly, I love Dragon Cave. It’s a collection game where you can breed lineages. Valentines breeding is currently going on if anybody wants to sign up. There are plenty of eggs on the abandoned page with pretty lineages (like this valentine lineage https://dragcave.net/lineage/u7mmU ) so it’s a good time to grab your first eggs which can be hatched on a hatchery (I use Eggs Around the World). I have a few dragons I’m planning on breeding to give away the eggs if anybody needs any. If you’re already on, I’d love to know. It’s kinda cool to see how communities intersect 🙂
That’s a lot of good there Cerb. Not something I’m used to being a reaction on one of my life events. The reactions I get are more shock, confusion, and/or sad faces. 😉
On one hand, I’m glad your landlord isn’t being an ass about it and is trying to help other LGBT+ tenants. On the other……yiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiikes. It’s…..good she’s trying but she definitely needed to know that outing is a tenuous TENUOUS beast at absolute best and in this context it is not acceptable.
She used the excuse that she thought I was already out so she thought it was okay. I had to tell her that I’m not in the closet, but I like to get to know somebody before I bring it up because I’ve gotten some really bad nasty reactions and I don’t want that drama. She assured me that nobody would harass me there because it they did it would break their contract which did make me feel better, but still. It’s like running around showing people pictures of my boobs. I’m not ashamed and I’m not hiding, but I should be allowed some say who can see that part of me.
You might want to slow down a bit, we are missing important parts here.
What happened with the studying?
Where on earth did Sal and Amazi come from?
When did they decide to go collectivly to Joyce?
So the obviuse selution here is to realese more strips everyday to fill in the blanks. :3 (I don’t have an agenda…just okay)
The answer to all that is pretty much just ‘scene transition = time skip forward’. Since Joyce is back from her lab, I’d say probably an hour or so. She probably texted AG and just asked Sal to join to tell her part of what happened.
“The right decisions, even when they are difficult.”
Also, I know he’s not here, but I’m gonna give Hank Brown a nod for backing up Joyce, there and subsequently, on the whole “You’re an adult now. You have the strength to make your own decisions.”
Also.Dorothy once told Joyce that the strength to stand up for her at the fountain was an internal quality of Joyce’s, not something that God did 100% of.
As a Ryan myself I should object to this use of my name, but my high school experience says otherwise. There were at least 8 Ryans in my class, I’m the only one who my friends thought was ok, and I’m not even sure about me. In short, way to go. Ya knocked it outta the park, Willis.
That he did. That he did. And folks willing to pick him up by car in an emergency situation with little notice. Ryan definitely has a crew and that crew is definitely not going to react well to this.
Thankfully, Joyce has a crew too. That crew includes Sarah (and her ball bat), Dina (who may not know much about this, but when people come at her and her friends she’s unleashed the raptor), AG (an actual factual superhero), Sal (a rebel badass who’s also good at talking AG out of charging in without a plan), and Billie (who will crush you with her thighs or whatever it is cheerleaders do, and oh look, she’s pissed off lately).
I can’t stand how absolutely charming Joyce is in this moment. I relate to her character so much due to reasons better left unsaid, but it moments like these that make her all the better of a character to me.
To be clear, I’m not trying to passive-aggressively correct the writing. I’m actually interested in the answer because regional variations in language are cool as hell
Panel One: DAMN, Joyce has guts. She tends to freeze and panic at first but when she chooses to fight, by god will she fight. This is incredibly brave to warn people. The police most likely would not listen to her, but she can still warn people.
Panel Two: Dorothy’s being great here. Gently explaining what will happen, but being realistic as well. This is not going to be easy for Joyce, and Dorothy wants to recognize that. But she’s not breaking the way Dorothy feared. No PTSD attack.
And Joyce is slumping a little – she knows that that PTSD will come and it will hurt like hell but she wants to catch him, just as Becky predicted.
I like Sal and AG in the background too, clearly having been called in for moral support. AG is serious and on the job – she’s ready to go in for a swing right now and is just waiting on Joyce’s word.
Meanwhile Sal is looking at Joyce and she seems kinda sad. I think she’d hate to put Joyce in a position that’s going to hurt so much, but she also thinks it’s the best realistic option they have to warn folks. She cares about Joyce and her concerned face is adorable, especially considering Sal seems to have the best working knowledge of how sexual assault survival works (which worries me honestly, as Sal shows lots of red flags of having experienced it or loved someone who experienced it, tbh).
Panel Three: That’s a fair point. If you’re gonna get the bad part, may as well get the satisfaction of warning others. Pasting his face everywhere won’t help traumatic flashbacks, but it’ll make it easier knowing hopefully other girls will avoid him at least. Joyce has a great understanding of this and an inner strength that doesn’t come out super often but when it does, it plays hardball.
Panel Four: Awwwww. Dorothy loves Joyce so much! She really was worried this would upset Joyce and that wounds her because she doesn’t want to hurt her. Even though this ended up okay, she really hated bringing it up period, as shown by how she dragged her feet on it.
Panel Five: Awwwwww, Joyce is smiling. She looks like she wants to cry – happy cry, but still. She is not at all crushed by this – it’s gonna hurt, but she’s braced for it.
Panel Six: Yup, screw it, this made me want to cry. Because yeah, having someone willing to fight for you means everything. And knowing they’ll support you outside of the fight means even more. I’m so glad Joyce has her badass friends who will help her.
And I love their expressions too. Dorothy is beaming, because that’s exactly what she needed to hear – she’s part of a solution, not a problem. She’s comforting, not traumatizing.
Sal seems to be taking it, but not quite connecting anything on it. Maybe because she’s been ‘the friend who will fight for you’ before (for good or ill results), maybe because she doesn’t think of herself like that, or maybe that just got caught off by that.
And AG seems more surprised than either. She must hear this all the time. But AG’s kinda hellbent on hating herself, so I guess not that shocking. She seems like she’s looking more at Joyce and less like she’s waiting for the word. It’s nicely humanizing. I approve.
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Sal: “So that’s it huh…we’re the patsies…we’re some kind of Social Media Squad.”
I think Black Canary, Power Girl and Oracle add up to more than that.
Not the worst line up for Birds of Prey.
That is… actually a nice parallel. Willis is a bit of a comic book nerd; I wonder if this parallel occurred to him too or whether this group is a deliberate reference to BoP?
Looking at panels 2 & 6, their being a deliberate reference was my assumption. I am not the artist though, so I could be completely mistaken.
Amazi-Girl is a bit more of a Huntress.
That one is debatable. However visually, in this strip at least, definitely
Power Girl.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Girl#/media/File%3APower_Girl.png
Without the chest window.
Sorry Daisy.
Um…The “A”
I first read the Doctor’s reply as pasties.
“And one of them is a superhero!”
“Yeah, Sal’s pretty badass”
Here’s hoping Billie sees them together so that she can end her “Sal is Amazi-Girl” conspiracy theory
Here’s hoping she’ll stubbornly stick with it even after she sees that.
“AHA! Got your twin to put on fake boobs and a wig so I’d think that wasn’t you, eh? Can’t fool me!”
And then Walky walks in and is like “oh hey amber” and everyone facepalms.
He would have done that last time on the roof, if he recognised her.
Yeah, something like this: “Ha! That doesn’t fool me! That’s Amber O’Malley dressed up in a fake Amazi-Girl costume! She doesn’t even look like Amazi-Girl!”
Something something Baked Alaska something something ventriloquism.
Hey, in Return of Superman, Supes had Supergirl shapeshift into Clark Kent so that Clark and Superman could be seen together.
So, totally shapeshifters.
*snerk*
Joyce’s Angels
Joyces theme song is officially “Hit me with your best shot”
Seriously, play it over panel one and try to say it doesn’t fit.
Guardians of the Gal, I see.
Oog.
a chaka
OOO
GAH!
OOO
GAH!
Clap … clap … clap
I am Groot.
next: they fight OVER her
…as in literally they go on the roof and fight
(they had to go on the roof b/c what they’re doing for Joyce, after all, wouldn’t be in good taste to do that in front of her)
what the heck, ad window, going nutso and killing my bandwidth
Then Becky comes in and kicks all of their asses at once, like “I AM HER BESTEST FRIEND IN THE WORLD RAAARARRAAUUUAAAAUUAGHGHGGHGGGGHHGH”
Did…Okay after reading what you just said, I’m having trouble not imagining her turning into the Hulk.
Or at least an angrier She-Hulk.
Look up the 80s Superman character Rampage, sort of an orange She-Hulk. I think the design fits Becky.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rampage_(DC_Comics)
Since they killed Bruce Banner, Marvel’s “Hulk” is officially a much, much angrier She-Hulk.
Isn’t there some kid that’s the new Hulk now? Amadeus something?
That’s “The Totally Awesome Hulk”.
Shulkie is now just “Hulk”
Marvel now has two of everybody.
I like to think RAAARARRAAUUUAAAAUUAGHGHGGHGGGGHHGH is Dina coming as a sidekick dino
And they are fighting the jerk that used a roofie so it works twice!
Ah, the old covert revenge squad. The one at my school used to meet down at the soda fountain. Good times! ^_^
Things just haven’t been the same since old Pop Tate retired.
@alt text: Hell yeah.
I’m glad Joyce has her protector squad.
“With a little help from my friends”.
aw they look so cool in the last panel
That’s a goddamn superhero pose.
And so does Joyce, in the first.
These blue eyes can kill.
Testimony accepted. The Joyce human will be taken into custody for possession of illegal and unregistered weapons. Thank you for your public service, citizen.
I mean… you’re not wrong, alt-text.
Lies.
I want my own overt revenge squad.
Ah but see, you can hide your covert revenge squad behind your overt revenge squad.
I think my heart just grew three sizes…
I know, right. This comic is getting dangerous.
…. so her flashbacks are a terror that flaps in the night?
yes, actually.
So which one of them is Darkwing?
you might want to get that checked on.
It’s like your own personal justice league!
Just needs a Green Lantern. Or Billie could join and be the Beer Lantern. Makes objects out of empty beer cans and throws them at villains.
hell yessssssss
That is a pretty badass squad Joyce has there.
Future president, a biker and a friggin superhero. I smell a sitcom
Oh god… There’s a new website feature where you are required to laugh in the mic and hear everyone left when certain characters do stuff
Three’s Company-The Next Generation !
*plays Bryan Adams’ “All For Love” on the hacked Muzak*
Well that tone shifted so fast I think I hurt my neck.
Gotta love the mood whiplash.
So, Joyce is the only one there who doesn’t know Amazigirl is Amber. She almost could’ve shown up out-of-costume.
I don’t recall Sal ever finding out.
She hasn’t.
Sal doesn’t know. She could have found out using the app AG put on her phone, but she deleted it.
She’s just cool like that.
We need more Joyces in the world.
We need more Sals and Dorothies, too. (Amazi-Girl is the one we deserve.)
I totally dig the revenge squad, but/and I hope Becky gets to play an instrumental role in catching Ryan. Joyce got to punch Becky’s abuser, after all — it’d be all poetic friendship time.
I seriously doubt it. In contrast to Joyce there is not a violent bone in Becky’s body. She doesn’t mind hanging out with badasses (Joyce, Dina, Amazigirl… I think Becky might have a type), but despite all the shit she’s been going through she has never once attempted violence, even in self defence.
Hugging and supporting and promising everything will be better and that she will always, ALWAYS be there for Joyce on the other hand…
It needn’t be a directly violent role. She could, like, start her shift, spot Ryan and his bros about to finish up their pizzas (and subs), and do something clever to stall them til a puncher can arrive, for example.
Only, like, pretend this idea was way awesomer and paced and drawn really well. See, it would be so cool!
Yeah, you are right. I can see her doing that. Complete with humming a soundtrack when Amazi-girl arrives.
Did we just skip a couple of strips?
I think we’ve earned this cut. In late, out early, as they say in the biz.
Just the off-panel exposition of stuff we already know.
I was also confused because last I just saw that Dorothy was dealing with Walky and then suddenly she’s dealing with Joyce. I mean, there’s not even a “Hey Joyce, we need to talk” to transition.
Dorothy also had that random cut to talk with Becky, so it’s not like this day hasn’t been an odd one for her already. I’m convinced she’s teleporting.
Teleporting? Don’t be silly. In fact there’s more than one of her. The Sal/Walky thing is foreshadowing for this.
I came to the comments to see if anyone else was as confused as me. I know it isn’t needed, but I think it could have acted as a nice cushion between the strips to have Dorothy shown working up the courage to talk to Joyce. Now it looks like Amazigirl and Sal grabbed her and forced her to do it imo.
We can’t complain that DOA moves too fast can we?
It’s kind of weird seeing Amazi-Girl just standing around in Joyce’s room in full costume.
Not costume. uniform. When you’re pretending to be someone else it’s a costume, when you’re a superhero it’s a uniform.
Yeah, no, you’re wrong on that one, buddy. A uniform is something worn by a group of people. Unless it’s a team wearing matching outfits (a la Fantastic Four), it’s not a uniform.
What if it’s a Legacy? Still worn by a group of people (who care to maintain the same general style out of respect), just not all at once.
Rorschach would say ‘uniform’, but I’m not sure he’s a good example to Amazigirl.
Alternate panel two: Joyce is disintegrated by Dr. Manhattan.
Nah, superheros wear costumes. If it’s a superteam, the costumes might be uniforms, too, but even if you consider Amazi-Girl to have teamed up with Sal and the Whiteboard Dingdong Bandit here, they’re not wearing uniform costumes.
That last sentence doesn’t sound right. It’s like it’s trying to be “Would that everyone on Earth should be so lucky” and ended up tripping on its own feet.
No, the thing you said is wrong because would and should are doing the same thing in that sentence.
Here in NYC, it would be “everyone should be so lucky”, ideally in an Italian or Yiddish cadence.
— maybe it’s regional?
It’s a Yiddish thing*, and by extension a regional New York thing.
*May also be an Italian thing, I wouldn’t know.
“Everyone should be so lucky” can be ambiguous; it can be taken to mean only that not everyone is so lucky, or only that everyone would ideally be so lucky, or both.
“Would that” at the beginning of a sentence is a somewhat archaic way of expressing a wish (having nothing to do with the verb ‘will’); in “would that everyone on earth should be so lucky,” “should” is used in an unconventional way too, effectively interchangeable with “were to” (“I wish that everyone were to be so lucky.”)
“Should that everyone on Earth be so lucky” sounds like a mixed up attempt at the second version of the sentence (given by Tenzhi) to me. “Everyone should be so lucky” would probably be fine too, given the context to avoid ambiguity, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the phrase that was intended.
Anyway, the sentence as it stands makes no sense at all to me. It could be regional.
Exactly so. Some common (though perhaps a bit less so these days) phrases using “would” in this manner:
“(I) would that it were so”
“I would that I could, but I can’t so I shan’t”
Another nice version comes up at both the beginning and end of Halo 3, regarding the chances of the Master Chief being killed by, well, anyone:
“Were it so easy.”
Yeah, I was wondering about that myself.
Joyce has spent too much time reading the bible and not enough time reading books written in real english.
The first should should be would.
Would that the first should could be would
In KJV English (actually, in 1970s Oxford English as well) you use shall/should with 1st person rather than will/would. Joyce is expressing a personal wish here.
In other news: don’t overthink this. If anybody tries writing a Pulitzer-aspiring essay here, it is not Joyce but Willis. And apart from a select few serious English majors, the typical English-speaking person trying to be portentous by using Early Modern English randomly throws “thee thou -e -eth -est” into a bag and shakes, with results causing any scholar to wince and puke.
Joyce is hella good, actually. Homeschooling would be an advantage, but I suspect that she did not get to read uncensored Shakespeare (very useful for Early Modern English but of dubious moral fibre).
My Early Modern English doth cometh from early Marvel Thor. 🙂
The “Should” in that soundeth horribly wrong to me. “Would that everyone on earth e so lucky” or “Everyone on earth should be so lucky” would both worketh.
Shakespeare’s plays actually had questionable grammar and did not represent the ways people actually spoke at the time.
Panel one Joyce is wonderful. Such fierce determination
Okay, I like this strip, but come on yesterday there was already at least 2 mood whiplashes and Robin was being cartoonish to the point of uncomfortable and now we’re just here resolving this whole other arc? Where did Sal and Amazi-girl even come from anyway? Didn’t we last see Dorothy about to tutor Walky? How’d she get the time to set this up? I’m so disoriented
Eh, after a few strips it’s pretty normal to cut to a different storyline, and Leslie looked like she needed some breathing room.
Punching room.
I had to backclick to make sure I hadn’t missed a few strips. I followed fine, but it looks like we’ve jumped forward a bit.
I checked the Dorothy and Joyce tags to make sure myself.
I am also hella disoriented by this, especially since I read yesterdays comic 23 minutes ago
A covert revenge squad sounds infinitely better than a hashtag squad goals squad. It’s on my to-do list now.
Sal’s expression is telling a lot of story in that final panel.
Actually, so is Dorothy’s, given the day she has had as context.
Good strip, but great final panel, should that it be made into a poster.
I think
Dorothy is happy that Joyce is so strong
Sal is a bit melancholy that she didn’t / hasn’t had anyone fight on her side, even her brother
Amazi-Girl is a bit down because her fighting for truth and justice hasn’t accomplished much in this case, to the extent that Ryan got away because of her grandstanding entrance.
there’s absolutely no build up for this page. what the fuck happened?
Dumbing of Age usually has scene changes without building to a transition. It happens a lot. My guess is Willis decided to leave Leslie and Robin for a bit.
If you mean the start of the conversation, my guess is Willis didn’t want to do a few strips watching them tell Joyce stuff we already knew.
Just because the reader knows information a character doesn’t, doesn’t make the reveal of that information and the reaction that character has unimportant.
Ex. (spoilers)
In Breaking Bad, the audience knows Walter White is Heisenberg for four seasons before Hank finds out… that doesn’t make Hank finally discovering it any less of an important point in both his character arc and the plot of the series. If instead you suddenly jumped mid-episode to an undisclosed time later where Hank knew everything the audience knows as in the middle of punching Walter in the face, you’d have no idea what was going on.
Yeah but here Joyce doesn’t find out by her own. Instead Dorothy weighs pro and cons of telling her for a long time, and the scope of what she tells Joyce is pretty clear to the reader. So it is obvious how she now knows everything, in contrast to Breaking Bad, where Hank puzzling together Walter’s Story is of course important.
“it is obvious”
Judging by the number of other complaints in this comment section, and the lengths of assumption that folks like BBCC have to go through to explain everything we’ve missed – apparently it’s not obvious.
Like I said in another post, skipping the conversation itself isn’t what makes this page so awkward – you can do that and have it work out just fine. The problem is that we don’t get any page establishing:
1) How much time has passed since Dorothy and Walky’s relationship calculus scene. Is it thirty seconds later? An hour? The next day?
2) How did Dorothy get everyone there? How did she contact Amazigirl? This is made more awkward by #1. Not knowing how much time has passed or how anyone got there makes this really jarring.
3) Dorothy get over her anxiety about confronting Joyce. We’ve seen her struggle with it all day, sure, but up until now we’ve seen her constantly avoiding it or procrastinating, and now we’ve jumped arbitrarily to ‘she did it 35 minutes ago’
4) Where’s Becky? No, seriously, of all the people who you’d expect to show up to something like this, you’d think Joyce’s best friend would be there for sure, if even just as emotional support. Is she still at work? Again we have no idea how much time has passed so we don’t know.
Trusting your readers to fill in a few blanks of an implied conversation is one thing – demanding that they come up with an entire day’s-worth of events to explain how characters ended up in the same room together is pushing it.
“2) How did Dorothy get everyone there? How did she contact Amazigirl?”
Dorothy knows Amber is AG and has had her phone number for a while. It was Dorothy who contacted AG to rescue Becky from Toedad as well.
And as for how she and Sal got there… They all live in the same dorm, even on the same floor. So… They walked there for 30 seconds?
A) There’s a difference between building up a discovery for four season’s worth of episodes, vs. two storylines. We’ve seen plenty of Dorothy worrying about it.
B) I don’t think I’m jumping very far tbh. Transitions happened, so I assume some time passed – how much? Not sure. She’s finished starting Walky on studying, so probably half an hour to an hour. Assuming she didn’t just calm him down from crying and leave (on a ‘we’ll start later’ kind of leaving), which would take a few minutes. I’m leaning towards the ‘half hour to an hour’ thing as Joyce has finished meeting her lab partners.
C) Dorothy walked through her room and asked Amber to come with? She texted her? AG texted Sal? She filled Dorothy in on how Sal was there and they went to her dorm to talk? Sal overheard them talking to Joyce? Dorothy told Joyce what happened and she asked to speak to Sal and AG? There’s a lot of ways and I don’t think any of them are particularly complicated.
D) We did see Dorothy decide to make up her mind about telling Joyce – after she talked to Becky. She was nervous about it, but helping Walky out lit up her motivation again after ‘campaigning’ for RA peed on it.
E) Becky is probably still at work. It looks like its still daytime, so Galasso’s is still going.
It’s fine you have a problem with it. I don’t and so I like to explain why. Sure, I’d have liked to see the conversation, but I don’t mind not.
Dorothy somehow wrapped up her study session with Walky (?) and fulfilled her plan to tell Joyce that Sal and AG had gotten a picture of Ryan; they informed Joyce that they could put the picture online if that was her desire, and they asked Joyce what to do next.
Yeah, and this is hardly the first time we’ve jumped a bit ahead of time in a scene transition – Dorothy and Walky are studying, cut to Leslie and Robin (which has probably cut forward a little bit of time – Leslie’s gotten dressed and all that, plus then she threw Robin out), Robin breaks back into the house and then cut to here, again with the assumption we’re jumping ahead maybe an hour or two. Pretty normal for cartoon cuts, in my experience. Transitions come with an implicit understanding time passed.
Dorothy’s been working herself up to this all day. The transition is a bit sudden, but there’s definitely been buildup
Lots of things, the most recent of which was Dorothy and Walky having a heart-to-heart about 4-6 strips back.
Robin ate a bowl of sugar and the Willis wasn’t able to capture her on paper any more. So he didn’t try.
are you ever just…so confused by this comic.
like I understand this strip but it’s still jarring as hell because Dorothy was literally just with Walky saying nothing about Joyce.
Yeah! The transition between the ‘Jumped’ and ‘Five Second’ stops was jarring too. (Leslie went from being bemused to angry instantly) and Dorothy’s whole day has felt really fragmented with the way it was constantly switching settings and character interactions. (The whole Becky lunch thing was also very aburpt) but this one strip is definitely the most jarring of the lot considering how much Dorothy was struggling with bringing Ryan up to Joyce. There’s no “Joyce I need to tell you something later.” And now Amazi-girl and Sales outta seemingly nowhere.
Hm?
Dotty ran into Joyce in the hall and knew she must tell her but didn’t. Carla walked in on Dotty trying to plan this out and feeling she was failing.
Then Dotty went to Walky for support, got some, found him needing some, and by helping him, got her shit together again.
This is the result.
When you are reading this not as a daily comic but in a book, rehashing all the stuff you’d read 15 minutes ago would be jarring.
And yes, I don’t remember transition like this before – but right now there is so much going on for so many characters, you’d’ need to time-skip several times else.
I know logically it’s not out of the ballpark, but for a sequential story like this an extra visual transition would be helpful here, especially since the comic prevously established that we have been going doing a play by play of Dorothy”s entire afternoon, to have a significant gap of events like this is strange. (She was just studying with Walky to something totally different) especially since she spent the whole day wrestling with this decision.
And I would argue that the primary medium of DoA IS the web. The print option is more of a bonus. The pacing needs to make sense for both. But even read in one go an extra panel would be good. Like for example when Dorothy was walking back from lunch if we could see a text message she wrote that said ‘meet up later?’ It would be less weird to see AG and Sal here
The only logical conclusion is that there are two Dorothies.
Which one of them is a shapeshifter?!?
Trick question, both of them are shapeshifters, and the original Dorothy is a malfunctioning Dalek.
EX-TERM-IN-NATE BAD GRADES!
EX-TERM-IN-NATE BAD GRADES!
EX-TERM-IN-NATE BAD GRADES!
I’d say it would be better with ninjas, but not seeing any ninjas on the squad, nor in the cast list is no proof of absence. It may, however, be evidence of a superior ninja. And revenge squads in particular are generally strengthened by ninjas.
And no, despite having a color scheme nearly as flashy as one notable contemporary ninja protagonist, AG is not simply a Ninja. No, she’s better: she’s the gorram Batman.
Incorrect. Sal is Batman, as has been confirmed early on in story. 😛
She’s Batman, he’s Batman… secretly I think we’re all Batman. Or at least a bit batty.
Never assume a Joyce does not have ninjas at her disposal.
I ALWAYS expect Ninjas. Unless they are actually there. Ah, the lessons of ADHD.
Dina is of course behind the door.
Joyce has a posse
Literally
That’s our brave girl.
What the heck? Did we miss a page?
… or like, a dozen?
There’s no build up to this moment, no explanation of how all these characters wound up in the same place at the same time. I might be forgetting a strip, but I can’t even remember us getting any hints of the apparent PTSD Joyce now seems to be describing.
This is really weird.
That’s what I was thinking, to. One moment, Dorothy is tutoring Walky, and the next… she’s gathered two others together, talked with Joyce, and Joyce has made a decision. Seems there was a lot of stuff missing.
Joyce sometimes sees Ryan, and when alone with guys or even alone from her friends, when she got mad and walked ahead of the crowd and Becky a hundred? strips back.
That doesn’t answer how Amazigirl or Sal or even Dorothy got into the same room with Joyce, however.
“There’s no build up to this moment”
Other than Dorothy stressing about this conversation this entire storyline and a good chunk of the last one?
“no explanation of how all these characters wound up in the same place at the same time.”
….Dorothy texts AG to come tell Joyce with her, AG gets Sal (I’m assuming she remembers her phone number from putting the app on her phone the other night. …Or she checked the school directory and found her room). They go to Joyce’s and talk to her. I don’t think it’s anything more complicated than that, and there’s no real reason this needs a strip detailing it.
“I might be forgetting a strip, but I can’t even remember us getting any hints of the apparent PTSD Joyce now seems to be describing.”
Yeah, you’re forgetting several SEVERAL strips. Damn you, memory! Check the ‘Ryan’ tag. Or any of the discussion Joyce had with Sal about how she hates walking places alone. Or Becky telling Joyce it’s okay, she and Dina are with her, she doesn’t need to be worried about her walking alone.
So the explanation of how any of this scene was set up is “eh, the details aren’t important”?
I’m not saying we need 8 pages dedicated to Dorothy scrolling through the contacts of her phone, I’m not even saying you could get away with just having them show up at Joyce’s room, cutting to Leslie and Robin, and then cutting back to what’s been posted today.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with letting your audience fill in the gaps to exclude unnecessary exposition or scenes, but you have to set that sort of thing up, not just throw them into it.
Imagine watching a movie with every establishing shot cut out – no indication of where the characters are or how much time has passed (or even that time has passed at all), no transitions of any kind.
Except we DO know where they are and, again, the point of a transition is ‘eh, not much more to see here, let’s cut to something else’. We’ve been seeing Dorothy angst about this this entire storyline – we knew it was most likely coming up. So I’m okay skipping the conversation filled with stuff we already know. Grabbing AG and Sal really isn’t a complicated or difficult explanation when texting exists, so I don’t have a real problem with it not being shown.
Sadly, something like this occurring in real life would (and does) get the woman making the claim harassed by total strangers. An RL friend of mine recently got her back broken (not severely – she can still walk, but has a 6-week recovery time) by her ex-boyfriend, and she had certain ITG’s claiming that she must have done something to deserve it.
Yeah, that fucking shit is infuriating and I swear is a major red flag that the asshole doing it has probably assaulted or raped someone themselves. I remember when I first started talking about my assault, how I had several people try to go amateur detective on me and try and “prove” how I couldn’t possibly have been raped because I froze during the assault.
And that was getting off easy compared to what has happened to friends of mine when they’ve talked about their assaults.
It’s also why I have zero patience for apologists of this kind of shit.
Also, *massive appropriate gesture of support* to your friend. That’s incredibly shitty and it’s even more shitty that people are harassing her while she’s still in recovery.
Well, if anyone wants to donate and help her get back on her feet, I’ll provide a GoFundMe link – https://www.gofundme.com/a-new-hope-for-adriana?r=7134
Vocabulary question. ITG?
ITG = Internet Tough Guy
As Penny Arcade defined with an equation: “Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total Fuckwad”
Erf. THOSE people.
GET HIM, LADIES!! FUCK YES!
Joyce over this comic has gone from annoying super Christian bible thumper to strong badass awesome person who is still a Christian but flexible in her views and willing to learn and change. She gets more awesome each day. Thank you for creating her. I know she’s partly autobiographical, but she’s still awesome in her own right.
Whelp, there goes my heart again.
Joyce’s friends look out for her.
Joyce wants to do what’s right, no matter what, just like Becky said.
That last panel is such a Joyce thing to say, and normally she would put herself in the position that fight for her friends (again, as Becky can attest to). But she also accept to be the one to be helped and accept that her friends fight her fight. That can be a tough thing to do.
And I love the power poses of Amazi-girl and Sal combined with Dorothy in full support mode. They are there for you, Joyce.
Stay precious, Joyce <3
I’m imagining her saying that first panel line in Megatron’s voice.
Which Megatron? You decide.
…..YESSSSSSS.
So, Meg from family guy who’s full first name was revealed to be Megatron?
Joyce could definitely do worse than Mila Kunis, when it comes to picking a VA.
Not quite sure how to read Sals or AG faces in the last panel
For me, and YMMV:
Sal is adjusting her self image through Joyce’s eyes. I don’t think that she sees herself as part of the group or a protector, whereas Joyce accepts almost everyone as family until proven otherwise.
Amazi-Girl is just plain shocked that it is possible to experience trauma without shattering.
I feel like she’s surprised at how positive Joyce’s reaction is. She already gained a good deal of respect for Joyce from her badassery during the car chase with Ross, but I don’t think it occurred to her that “tough but upbeat” was even an option
Comic Reactions:
*cries softly*
I’ve made no secret of how critically important consent and boundary stuff is to me and how it’s a major piece of my activism. It’s the thing that drives me more than anything else, makes me more willing to take massive risks and it’s something I can’t just ignore and turn a blind eye to even if fighting it puts me at personal risk.
I’ve also made no secret of my frustrating saga at work with the kid who got assaulted, who I recognized was at risk a month before it happened, warned administration, only to see them ignore it, let the kid get raped on campus in an area that should have been monitored, and then abuse the kid afterwards in the desperation to make it all go away. And that saga has been extra frustrating because I had to let the shitlords who did that get away with it because the kid is done fighting this shit and there is nothing in the verse that will make me go against a survivor’s attempt to refind agency after an assault.
But still it’s hard doing a lot of sexual assault support because 99 times out of a 100, the bad guys win. The rapist gets away with it, the shitty authority figures face no repercussions for making a bad situation worse, and a lot of the activism is just focused on keeping them alive.
And having this particular fucked up affair occur at a time when I finally had some small piece of power that I’ve never had before and a time our country decided to elect a man who inappropriately touched little kids on stage in front of the whole world and has admitted on microphone to raping people, just made it hit all the more, making me feel powerless.
But this… reminded me that what I’ve done to try matters. Joyce’s face in Panels 3 and 5 remind me a lot of the kid I tried to help. What he said when he thanked me for getting him the resource that interrupted his suicide attempt. What he said when he found out what the teachers were doing to fight for him. What he said when I told him I’d back him 100%.
I have a bad time internalizing things like that because to me fighting on things like this is just basic humanity. And because I have a bad time giving myself credit for anything positive I do. But this comic actually reminded me that I did something and it ended up mattering even if it never actually took down any of the bastards involved.
And hey, it might have at least shook up my shitlord of a boss because today I read him the riot act about another student being touched without consent (albeit thankfully nonsexually) who is recovering from a history that involved sexual assault and he actually responded with actual consequences for the offending student after trying to initially sell me on the same old boys will be boys horseshit.
And that’s not nothing. (Ugh, I hate that I still feel so self-conscious about saying anything positive about my own actions, even ones I’m proud of).
<3
You should never be afraid to speak about the things you do. Because this world would be a better place if everyone had even a fraction of your drive to help make things right for those who need it most. People like you are the reason that I still believe humanity has a chance to flourish and live together in harmony until the stars burn down to nothing.
I myself have led a pretty cushy, safe, and privileged life, but even I can attest to just how much it can mean to see someone stand up for you when life takes a nasty turn, especially if it feels like the world has turned on you. To be expecting a final knife in your back, to be waiting for it, only to turn and find someone shielding you instead can be life-changing.
Even if you don’t win the battle, even if you can’t win it, I know you’ve made a huge difference simply by joining the fight.
Even if you don’t win the war, it always matters that you were willing to be part of the battle and fight with them.
Your students have an awesome teacher. That’s not nothing.
Definitely not.
And we, here, are blessed by your insight and experience.
Sympathy through light physical contact.
I’d like to hug you Cerberus. So consider the offer there if we ever meet.
Your place is between Sal and Amazigirl in that last panel, Cerberus.
Becky: “Okay, Joyce. Two things. First, it is so freaking cool that you know so many amazing people willing to kick so much ass for you and even a stranger like me! So cool! Second…I’m just gonna go ahead and apologize right now for all the four way premarital hanky panky I’ll be picturing you guys doing in the future. And…by future I may mean five minutes ago..”
I do enjoy Sal’s shorts+tights. Though longer shorts would be more apt for combat usefulness.
So.. dorothy research.
amazgirl bruser.
Sal.. everything and anything else?
Tell that to MMA fighters, the longer pants get, the loser they have to be for hand to hand fighting.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/02-everything-youve-ever-wanted/balancing/
Oops, wrong link. Sorry
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheNotoriousMMA/photo
Me: Amazi-Girl and Sal should have their own spin-off webcomic series! It would be a mix between Batman & Robin and Dirty Pair…
Kei & Yuri: Lovely Angels!!!
Me: Oh right! Lovely Angels…
Google Lovely Angels right now.
Googling
The Dirty Pair!?
Double the evacuation radius
The Dirty Pair?!
Double the evacuation radius!!
And that goes double!
Panel 1: Joyce’s face here is perfect. Firm resolve, blue eyes brimming over with rage, brow furrowed, mouth curled.
I recognize that face intimately. It’s the face I wear when I hear about some unjust bullshit. It’s an exterior brimming underneath with a powerful fury.
And the fact that it’s so all-in also shows how valuable Joyce’s previous weekend of hell was for her. How it’s allowed her to access her anger to obliterate her self-doubt with shit like this and no longer internalize that she deserved it or should hide it lest her parents try to remove her. And I imagine a part of it is realizing she’s already fucked with her mom on that score, but that she has her dad’s support no matter what and her sister’s.
Panel 2: Dorothy is a perfect cinnamon roll here. On her knees on that shitty threadbare carpet they have in dorms so her eyes can be level with Joyce’s. Making sure Joyce’s consent is absolutely informed to the maximum by confirming with her the reality of the situation and making sure Joyce knows that before they do anything.
It’s a perfect counterpoint of agency in response to its violent theft. And it shows just how good Dorothy is at this stuff when she isn’t getting sucked into “campaigning” herself and thus presenting these skills instead of just… doing them.
*strums the chorus line to Sonic Heroes’ “We Can”*
We can make it if we all stick together…
We won’t give up not ever, and everything”s gonna be aaalright!
We all bring out the best things in each other…
Together we are stronger than anyone else could be on their own!
So much better than alone…
CONTENT WARNING: PTSD descriptions relating to sexual assault
Panel 3: Fucking flashbacks.
No, like, the PTSD flashbacks are one of the worst parts of rape and what frequently makes this crime so exceedingly awful and why anyone who minimizes this crime or tries to sell some sob story about “false rape accusations” can fuck off into a lake.
Having to relive the body horror of the event randomly for years afterwards. Feeling your violator on you when no one’s there or worse, when your partner is there and holding you. Being unable to control when they’ll pop up. Are you at work? With family? In public? Fun fucking times. Having the most random things trigger you back to that hellish place and becoming non-functional for a bit as your body rehashes it all ad nauseum. Just having your whole body betray you in the goal of moving on and re-establishing agency.
It’s… infuriating. Like it’s also painful and scary and debilitating, but most of all it’s maddening, because the flashbacks tend to sit like a log and serve no purpose other than serving as a marker for the traumatic event. And so frequently it gets paired with all sorts of other lingering body bullshit (anxiety related, depression related, and so on).
It’s also why I have no patience for people who make “trigger warning” jokes. Because I’ve dealt with my fair share of triggers and fucking hell, I need those warnings to avoid having to deal with lost time as I claw my way back from reliving the feel of… that shit and untense my back. So I can prepare my mental defenses and get the part of my body that keeps feeling him on me against something solid so it doesn’t feel like he’s right next to me.
Seriously, fuck flashbacks.
I don’t know what to say that doesn’t sound chliched. I’m sorry.
Flashbacks… are terrible. At least mine are only emotional and don’t really include physical sensations. I can only begin to imagine what total flashbacks are like.
… I have never heard anyone describe my experience of assault so well. Thank you for putting it in words.
I got assaulted and a week or so later went caving with a friend and had a huge freakout flashback. I was scared of caving for years after that, and I love caves! And I was just so angry because it was one more way some asshole who probably barely remembered me was reaching into my life in a way I hadn’t given permission for.
Oh wow, after Robin this was such a nice palate cleanser.
Panel 4: Oh Dorothy, you lucky lucky person you, no, this sort of conversation is rarely what ruins days. The flashbacks and the lingering traumas are what ruin days. People standing up for you, letting you know despite all your brain trying to blame you for not noticing or doing something to have avoided being assaulted, that you did not deserve this, that you deserve justice?
That shit matters. It mattered to me recovering from my assault. And it’s something I try and provide every person I know who has been assaulted. Because I know only too well how easily it is to get locked in a cycle of self-blame, especially in a culture that is only too happy to blame a survivor for their rape before ever blaming the rapist.
Panel 5: And that’s the reason for the soft smile here. I’ve already mentioned how resonant this feels, so I won’t rehash, but seriously, this is a beautiful fucking moment that made me blub. I’m not ashamed to say.
Panel 6: This first line ruined me in a good way. Because it reminds me that I’ve heard lines like this from the folks I’ve tried to fight for. It reminds me that while I feel powerless and worthless, that I’ve done something and that matters.
And that’s a hard thing to cling to sometimes.
And yeah, that triumvirate, that powerful triumvirate backing her up. That’s powerful. A superhero, a genius, and one of the most compassionate rebel badasses you can find. They might not be able to do anything real. Rape culture is nasty that way and the system heavily protects rapists and makes it almost impossible to get any real revenge on them.
But it’s a powerful team nonetheless.
And again, I’m just a wreck about this whole panel. It’s just too damn resonant and powerful in a good way.
Panel 6 is fascinating in a way. Sal and Amazi-Girl seem genuinely shocked; despite everything they’ve seen, they still manage to be surprised every time Joyce shows her enormous reserves of personal strength. Sal, in particular, seems to be having a “Well, you think that you know people!” moment.
Panel 2 through to 4 are important when you look at it sideways too: Joyce has consciously decided to stop running away from what Ryan did to her. She is no longer letting the trauma rule her. Rather, she is accepting it and moving on in an attempt to help others.
Yeah, she’s making an active choice to regain agency and that is such a key part of healing and a sign that she’s grown a lot since the attempted assault took place.
I read Sal’s look as more an adjustment of self image than admiration of Joyce. However admirable Joyce’s resolve may be.
A lot of people seem to want a lead in for this strip. These three set it up quite linearly.
Sal and Amazi-Girl are nearby. Dorothy knows exactly where Joyce is and resolves to talk to her. All flowing into this strip…
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-7/01-glower-vacuum/recover/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/02-everything-youve-ever-wanted/balancing/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/02-everything-youve-ever-wanted/bridges-2/
Just a thought I had that might make some people happier.
It’s possible Ryan sees Joyce in HIS nightmares.
This is probably meaner of me than it should be (because his suffering does not help Joyce, and because it might drive him all the more to “settle” things with her) but that thought gives me a warm feeling inside.
Yeah. Unfortunately I expect that, within the year 2017, we’re going to see Ryan on panel making some attempt against at least one of these girls (whether that’s directly or indirectly). Sal and Amazigirl he has motive against due to the events at the DeSanto rally. Joyce he has motive against due to her not giving in to him and then glassing him at the party (Sarah may be at risk for similar reasons). Dorothy (or maybe Amber) is going to be a thing because it’s probable she’s going to stupidly release that photo from an account that can eventually be linked back to her, and guys like Ryan have, at least since 2013 or 2014, a certain fraternity of nasty individuals willing to help them who have zero compunctions about doxing people like her (female and “making trouble”).
This strip made my morning so much better. I love that last panel.
*Enter series of panels where, during the flashbacks of Joyce getting the rundown of plans, it shifts Mission Impossible style. Showing a montage of action and blueprinting scenes.* Shenanigains ensue, aaand Scene.
-Just a job well done by the League of Awesome squad.
So they have a name and a photo. Why have they not gone to the police with this? What on earth makes them think putting the information on social media is the best way to handle this situation?
Maybe because Who assaulted Whom and How is a matter the police and prosecutors might have trouble dealing with. The only provable attack is by Joyce on Ryan.
Actually, come to think of it, no one but Sarah saw Joyce glass Ryan, plenty saw Sarah dealing with him though.
Yeah, Sarah getting charged with assault was a concern when they were discussing going to the police.
Right now, there’s physical evidence that Ryan got his stupid gave slashed up, but not much else.
*his stupid face
5 bucks says if you search Ryan’s place you find his rape drugs.
…except they’d need to know his full name and address to get a search warrant, so they’d need to learn those without tipping him off, then hope a judge thinks they have enough probable cause for a search.
Easy enough to find out, knowing the campaign employed him. Freida would certainly stonewall Dorothy, but not the cops. Hell, the name is probably in the police report filed about the incident at the campaign rally.
She would absolutely stonewall the cops unless they had a warrant compelling her to provide the information, which I doubt they’d be able to get.
You’re also assuming anyone filed a police report at the rally.
Considering how quick Frieda was to spin the situation as one of her interns being attacked by a vigilante (instead of the other way around, like what actually happened) I strongly doubt she called the police.
She was obviously far more concerned with how the campaign would be affected than whether the accusations against Ryan were true or not.
Yeah, Robin’s already got a scandal. If word gets out they hired a roofie rapist, she may as well drop out now and let Manley run unopposed. This is definitely the kind of thing Freida would do her damnedest to bury if she could – which she probably could unless they have a warrant.
The report would of course be about the vigilante and the thug attacking one of the staff, not about whatever the vigilante’s accusations were.
It’s possible. Robin’s campaign is obviously completely inept, so they could have let it slide. No serious business is not going to report an attack on an employee – even a volunteer – in the course of the job. Fear of lawsuits if nothing else. The security firm has it all documented as well, to cover their ass.
Frankly, I’m surprised it’s not all over the news – or at least talk radio and social media as “costumed protester and urban thug attack staff and threaten Congresswoman!”
As for the scandal, maybe? Hard to know how such things would play out – especially if it was just “Found out a volunteer is an alleged rapist. We are cooperating with the police investigation.” Covering it up is what would get them in trouble. Which is a standard political response, I’ll admit.
They could also go completely over the top and play up the false accusations against an upstanding son of a preacher man angle. Probably win them votes.
If the file a report, the police would look into it, interview people who were at the rally, looking for actual witnesses to the fight. Who might tell them the truth, and may have also heard what AG said, and tell them about that as well.
We already know Frieda prefers the “cover that shit up immediately” option because that was her immediate reaction at the rally.
Admitting he was hired in the first place can also open them up to attack ads for not doing careful enough background checks – unjustifiably imo, as this wouldn’t come up in a background check because he’s (as far as we know) never been caught, but politics is a dirty game that’ll drag you through the dirt.
If he was actually on campaign payroll, maybe. If he was somewhere high up in the ranks, more likely. He was an unpaid volunteer handing out campaign literature at one rally. Nobody would even touch that story.
Unless they protect the rapist by covering it up.
…Which Frieda already started doing when she tried to spin it as AG being the aggressor.
Which isn’t exactly some insane hypothetical scenario I’m dreaming up. It happens. Even when there’s a lot more evidence. College campuses and the political arena are two areas where there’s a lot of assholes who care more about the fiction “that kind of thing just doesn’t happen here!” than actually working to ensure that it doesn’t.
I can see it getting picked up, since it caused a stir at the rally….and then if the other campaign gets hold of that initial pick up, they will not let it die down because smear campaigning is something politics has gotten good at.
Because they know at this point the police aren’t going to accomplish anything. Allegations with no physical evidence weeks after the fact don’t get any real attention.
Going to social media may not get him punished, but it might help warn other potential targets to be wary.
What COULD the police do at this point?
Just FWIW, Sal is to Amazi-Girl what Jessica Jones is to Daredevil.
Of the two, Sal is the one people actually wanted to see more of?
That’s arguable but, yes, she has more advocates than detractors on this board, that’s for sure!
Not me, that was a joke. I enjoy both of them. I was just having a dig at DD and JJ.
Although I do think Sal’s character has been somewhat under explored since her last hook up with Jason.
hell yeah
u got a motorcycle chick and a superhero to back you up, you got this joyce
Panel 1: Ryan just got very, very afraid and he doesn’t know why.
I’m proud of you, Joyce. 🙂 But this bears saying, you don’t know yet what you’re in for. I have read interviews given by survivors of sexual assault who went to court to press charges, and… the phrase “hauled over the coals” comes to mind. Your character will be attacked, implied you were “inviting it”, and in this age of modern communications, you can even expect hate mail and possibly death threats from strangers you don’t even know. The fact that you glassed Ryan will also be used against you.
Worst of all, I’m a bit afraid what your parents (OK, CAROL…) might think (or do) if this comes out.
It takes a lot of courage and strength to go fight for justice in the courts, but I also know that it’s a fight that can be utterly exhausting and so time-consuming, that I don’t blame those who choose to simply bury it and get on with their lives. I’m not choosing any sides here; I just want to point out that assault survivors need nothing less than total support regardless of what THEY want to do. They shouldn’t be forced in either direction. Let them choose how they want to proceed with their healing. If choosing to forget it is better, good on them. If choosing to press charges is better, good on them.
But they’re not going to the courts. For a lot of those reasons.
Now I’ve thought about it in respect to panel 6, I can’t get it out of my head: Joyce narrating in retrospective from years down the line: “I knew the Angels when they were just discovering who they were.”
Couldn’t they like, have given the picture and all relevant information to the police instead? Getting him put into police custody immediately should have been the priority. There were lots of witnesses at the party, and ideally this kind of case should be pursued legally while the evidence is still fresh.
As much as capes are awesome, sometimes law enforcement is best left to the professionals.
What do they have? A couple of month-old witness statements and a blurry photograph. The investigation will take months and, if was implied, Ryan is from a socially prominent (and possibly wealthy) family, he WILL get bail and WILL act to attempt to silence his accusers, assuming that he is charged several months down the line.
No, attempting to make him notorious so that girls avoid him may be more efficacious in limiting his ability to commit further attacks in the future. At the very least, it may damage him enough that he cannot continue to rely on the support of his family and associates because they don’t want the muck aimed at him splattering on them too.
Assumption 1: Getting him arrested is preferable to him not being arrested.
Assumption 2: He won’t be arrested unless the cops are notified.
Assumption 3: The evidence decays with time, so if the cops are called, they should be called as soon as possible.
The consequence of these three assumptions suggest that the cops should be called immediately, isn’t it? Regardless of whether the guy is actually convicted, forcing him to explain to his family why he is being charged for rape is already a good result.
Putting his photo online isn’t guaranteed to work either now, is it? Let’s look at a simple numbers game: how many rapists in your area have you seen “please avoid”-pictures of, compared to how many rapists in your area got convicted? I’d assume the latter is much higher.
Also, it’s not like Joyce doesn’t have any connections of her own. Robin was informed about the ordeal and took Joyce’s side: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-7/01-glower-vacuum/interns/
“Assumption 2: He won’t be arrested unless the cops are notified.”
But odds are, he won’t be arrested even if the cops are notified. Sal was right on that one. We’re talking about a son of a preacherman here. The wannabe “president” was right on that one: The higher up you are, the more you can get away with.
And even if he was, cops tend to do everything to cast doubt on what happened, asking all sort of questions that is designed to put suspicion on the victim.
“Regardless of whether the guy is actually convicted, forcing him to explain to his family why he is being charged for rape is already a good result.”
Yeah, because obviously they would not ever consider taking his side and thinking that Joyce was, in one way or another, “asking for it”. I mean, it’s not like fundie preachers (Gashface’s father is one) tend to look at women as nothing but vessels of temptation made by the devil to lead honest men astray or something, right?
Oh, and Brock Turner’s dad says hi, by the way. Remember him? THe “my son’s being punished for twenty minutes of fun” guy?
“Also, it’s not like Joyce doesn’t have any connections of her own. Robin was informed about the ordeal and took Joyce’s side”
Joyce doesn’t know that. Even Dorothy doesn’t know that. Only one who does is Leslie, and right now Leslie is far too busy dealing with Robin employing creepy stalker tactics to be of any help. So as far as Joyce is concerned with the knowledge she currently has at her disposal, this is her only choice.
All three assumptions are true. Problem is as the Emperor says, the best assumption is he won’t be arrested even if they go to the cops now. Calling the cops to the scene when it happened would have been the way to go – even after he got away. At least they would have had physical evidence – drugs in Joyce’s system and the glass, blood tying him to the scene and likely evidence tying him to the glass as well.
Without that, you’ve got Joyce’s friend’s testimony to her apparent drugged state, her testimony to his words and actual physical and witness evidence that he was attacked and injured.
Even a sympathetic and aggressive prosecutor would have trouble getting beyond a reasonable doubt on this.
Though I’d add: It’s still worth going to the police. Ryan has done almost certainly done this before and will likely do it again. If any of those are reported and a pattern can be detected, that makes a big difference.
The big problem is getting to the ‘getting him arrested’ step. There really is no guarantee that this would happen with what evidence they have available to and the unfortunate attitude the police too often have to sexual assault claims.
Also, let’s not forget that Robin could now be a lame duck, depending on how badly her stalking Leslie before the camera lenses of the press blows up in her face.
Regarding assumption 3: the only physical evidence is already gone. The drug is out of Joyce’s system, and that house has no doubt been cleaned and partied in multiple times since then.
Joyce only has Sarah’s testimony to prove Ryan tried to assault her. Even with a perfect system, it’d be hard to convict him, and it would still be a long, painful process even if conviction were guaranteed.
And it very much isn’t guaranteed. Even if they’d gone to the police that night, it’s quite possible Joyce would have had to fight just to get him charged, unless they found the drugs on him if/when they caught him.
Yes, ideally every victim of sexual assault would go to the police, to maximize the number of sleaze bags that go to jail. But ideally, that process would have a far greater chance of a just result, and take a much lower emotional toll on people who’ve already been through something traumatic.
Cops don’t give a single fuck about this anyhow – look up all the times they had to be forced to actually use their rape kit data, for one thing.
Even cops and courts who would give a fuck just wouldn’t have a lot to work with at this point.
CONTENT WARNING: Abuse by cops, sexual assault, victim-blaming
This is basically a general response to the “why didn’t they go to police” questions and arguments, so hopefully this doesn’t come off as specifically going off on you as a lot of people have this question and it comes up a lot from people who haven’t had the misfortune of dealing with cops after an assault.
The reason Joyce in particular didn’t go to the cops is simple. She was scared she would be pulled out of school away from her developing support networks if she reported the crime as her parents would just interpret it as “pre-marital hanky-panky” and that would likely come with lots of abuse from that direction for “not protecting her womanhood” better.
There are other reasons as well, those being Sarah more likely to be arrested for physically assaulting the rapist than the rapist being arrested, no evidence with regards to him in specific being behind the drugging, no drugs left in the system when they could check in with Joyce for consent about what to do next, it being more important at the time to get Joyce somewhere safe, and concern about cops taking it seriously.
And that connects to some of the major reasons most people don’t report to cops and that’s the fact that cops are fucking horrible on sexual assault. On the physical level, a lot of the procedures to produce the rape kit are horrifyingly invasive (especially after an assault) and that’s for a rape kit that is frequently left to languish.
And that’s just the physical cause the rest is just… ugh. A lot of cops treat the person reporting the sexual assault as a criminal and actively distrust victims and believe a lot of myths about rape from movies that make them more likely to dismiss the accounts of those reporting especially if that person is in any way marginalized. So things like knowing the person before hand (which is the vast majority of assaults) or having any other traumatic response than fight is treated as “proof” of consent.
On top of that, cops try and actively discourage folks from reporting sexual assaults and are frequently abusive to the folks recording them. The student that got raped on campus got told by the investigating cops that he probably deserved it and that he was wasting their time reporting it and if he wanted to kill himself about it, he should decide quick so they could figure out a 5150 or not and were just overall awful (I was fighting to bring in a rape advocate during it (I was not successful) but another teacher was in and related all this as did the kid after the fact).
And there was another friend who got assaulted in front of a grocery store and I was there for when she reported it and listened as the cop tried to argue that because she saw the guy on a bus once before, she clearly knew him and thus clearly consented and repeatedly told her that they weren’t going to do a real investigation so she shouldn’t report and basically put her through a half-hour of hell and only then start actually taking the statement of what happened.
Basically almost everyone I know who reported have similar stories of cops being shitty afterwards and re-traumatizing and making them feel like it was all their faults or they were idiots or that they have no real recourse because no one in authority is taking things seriously. And studies into cop behaviors back this up noting a high level of reporters reporting secondary abuse from the cops and a high number of cops holding rape myths*.
*Basically, things like “rape is a stranger with a knife in the bushes who attacks you while you’re sober and you clearly yell no and try and fight him off and you were a virgin” otherwise it doesn’t “count”.
And if you get through that battery of hell to make it to the courts, the survivor tends to be the one on trial with their sexual history and every text or tweet they have ever made being used against them (there was a woman who shared about being raped as a virgin by a stranger with a knife like the myth goes, but being dismissed as a (slur for woman who has sex) because she tweeted a joke about blowjobs once and so totally must have consented to attack knife play.
And the surrounding community tends to be brutal to people who report, because it’s “ruining those poor men’s lives” and “she’s clearly lying” so you get an epic amount of harassment about it, especially if the person who raped you as any semblance of power (like say the son of a preacher). And on top of that, you’ve got MRA rapist douchebags who rant all the time about “false rape accusations” and love trolling court logs for people trying to prosecute rapists so they can harass the victims and basically call them lying sluts trying to ruin a man’s life.
And then, if you manage to get through all that, juries are heavily slanted against sexual assault victims and so frequently even if you have video evidence of the rape with the rapist admitting they committed it on camera, it tends to frequently end in a not guilty verdict especially if the offender is white and male and rich.
And if you succeed with all of that, the rapist tends to only end up with a couple of year sentence if that (as we saw in the Brock Turner) case and frequently the harassment continues for years while the rapist can much more easily reintegrate (Brock Turner is actually earning shitloads of money to go to campuses and basically say “the trick to not getting raped is to never drink alcohol” while his victim is still being harassed and inundated by douchebags who are sad that she “ruined his life”).
So a lot of folks look at that and go “fuck that noise” especially if they don’t have an airtight case of being raped by a stranger with recorded evidence of being too impaired to consent. Cause it can be a lot of abuse for no real worthwhile payoff. And that can make it harder to recover because it can keep you reliving it over and over for months as the “investigation” proceeds and goes nowhere and the initial barrage of victim-blaming nonsense from authority figures makes it even easier to internalize self-hating messages.
And that’s not all on cops. There’s a whole broken rape culture that has a lot of baggage invested in the word but no real political or social will to do anything real about the actual problem or what causes it. And it allows a system this broken to exist with 1 in 6 women, 1 in 10 men, and 1 in 5 transgender folks reporting experiencing a rape and that’s likely massively undercounting.
And with 6% of men stating they have committed a rape if you only describe the action rather than use the word. And for America to elect an admitted rapist to its highest office.
The level of bad it can all reach is somewhat impressive:
https://www.propublica.org/article/false-rape-accusations-an-unbelievable-story
Link to that 6% (or about 1 in 16 to compare it to the other numbers) number:
https://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-predators/
It’s honestly a piece of art as far as sociology surveys go as it’s a brilliant way to get meaningful numbers to something that is notoriously difficult to get reliable numbers about (because most people aren’t just going to admit to being rapists if you ask them). But it’s also horrifying in what it means as well as it’s notes about how many rapes the 1% of serial rapists in those numbers commit on average.
And as if that 1 in 6 number isn’t bad enough, estimates go to 1 in 4 women worldwide. I’ve heard it’s 1 in 3 for Native women in Canada. Just……eugh. Never look into rape statistics if you want to feel at all clean ever again.
One of my long term goals is to get data on ace folks, cause based on informal observation, I’d say we tend to get assaulted or coerced a lot and it’d be nice to have some numbers to back up.
And yeah, researching rape can get pretty depressing because of how pervasive it is and how bad the public response to it is. Which I guess is why it’s the activism that always most pulls me. That and the fact that I belong to the three groups most targeted for corrective rape (ace, trans, lesbianish).
I’d be interested to see that hypothetical study too. I’d like to see more disaggregated data regarding victims of crime anyways, but YES to more information on asexual rape.
The majority (as in >50%) of autistic women, according to best available data. 4 in 5 (as in 80%) of women with intellectual disabilities. 30% of men with intellectual disabilities. in the case of people with intellectual disabilities, 50% of those who’ve been assaulted once have been assaulted >10 times.
Sexual violence is more prevalent the more ways in which a person is marginalized. Would not be surprised if corrective rape is a thing a lot of aces run into.
Yeah, we run into it a lot from sexual partners. Cause we’re viewed as “broken” and just needing to be “fixed”.
And oof, those numbers are not unexpected but still rough as hell.
I wish I could say I was surprised, but nah, just angry.
MASSIVE TW for victim-blaming further down in the comment. Starts 3rd paragraph down.
In Canada, 1 in 5 sexual assault complaints are deemed “unfounded” (i.e., no crime occurred according to cops). In my region, that’s up to 1 in 3.
In some parts of the country, it’s over 90%. One jurisdiction had 100% of their reported sexual assaults deemed “unfounded” (and, before you ask, they had 19 reported sexual assaults. It’s not like they had a sample size of 1).
And that’s without even going into the social backlash. “Why are you ruining such a nice guy’s life?” “Are you sure you’re not being over-sensitive?” “Are you sure you didn’t just misunderstand?” “Sometimes the way we remember things and the way they happened aren’t the same.” “Why didn’t you say no?” “Why didn’t you fight back?” “What were you wearing?” “What were you doing in a bar?” “What were you doing in a parking lot after dark?” (In Canada. Where for a not insignificant time of the year “after dark” = “after about 4:30 PM”) “I bet you wanted it and you’re having second thoughts.” “Are you sure this isn’t a case of buyer’s remorse?” “You should never have let them get your clothes off! What’s wrong with you?” “You should’ve stood up for yourself! If you don’t sock him one, how does he know you don’t want it? You could just be joking.” (yes, I am telling you to hit a guy who is 10 years your senior and over 100lbs heavier and has 2.5 ft on you in height, 8YO kid I’m speaking to). “You know how girls are these days. They’re 8 going on 28.” “You led him on. You’re a slut.” “Why would a hockey star want a fat flat cow like you? I think you’re making it up for attention.” “Ok but think about the affect you’re having on his life. His reputation is ruined! And why? Over a few hurt feelings? Come on, be reasonable!”
^ That’s just a small sampling of stuff I, personally have been told about childhood sexual abuse. Some of which came from teachers, some came from my parents, some came from other kids, some came from community members. My cases (yes, plural) never even got to the cops because kid me figured nobody believes me anyway the cops aren’t going to either so fukkit.
Frankly, for me, the social backlash after the assaults was always worse than the assaults themselves. I can’t even. I just… I stopped reporting around 16 (I’ve been assaulted since then, too) because I just can’t take being hated for something other people did to me. I can’t take being presumed guilty until proven innocent. Especially since I don’t “trauma” in the stereotypical way. My emotions go away and I’m on auto-pilot until the traumatic thing is done and then I slooowly decompress over weeks. It’s not crying or freaking out or hysterical laughter or what have you. I act like a robot, except the lights are on but nobody’s home.
But people think if you’re not sobbing hysterically and broken and unable to function, you’re not traumatized. And that’s just… not true. I’ve been traumatized many times – but that’s just not how I process trauma, and hasn’t been since I went through hell for 12 years with bullying etc as a kid. If I broke down the way TV expects “true” victims to every time I was traumatized as a kid, I never would’ve been able to function at all – so I learned how to function while broken.
So, yeah. In college, I could be jumped in a bar and sexually assaulted and fight off the assailant have the bruises to show for it… and then go to class as if nothing happened the next day. And I did, once. Cuz that’s what childhood forged me to do. But that I can look and act fine doesn’t mean I am. But that I can look and act fine does mean nobody will realize that I’m checked out emotionally and might not come back to myself for a few weeks, and everyone who I tell in the meantime will think I’m lying.
*Appropriate gesture of support* because all of that is so awful.
And yeah, I didn’t end up reporting my rape because I saw what happened to too many friends who did and how much worse the cops made them feel and knew I wouldn’t be able to take it.
And yeah, I’m very much the same after a trauma. Sometimes it even takes me a little time to realize what just happened and so I’m perfectly “normal” right after a horrible incident as my brain catches up and puts together the pieces of what I narrowly avoided.
In the incident where the guy mused to his friend about circling back to kill me because I dared to be trans when he was harassing me and my girlfriend as “hot lesbos”, I actually crossed the street, went into a restaurant and ordered food before it fully hit me what had just happened.
I dunno, my trauma response is freeze, so I think my brain ends up needing time to reboot right afterwards.
Aw, that’s so sweet of Joyce to say that and so true. <3
This is what I felt like when people started punching Nazis. My friend told me that the were sorry about all the news lately, what with my being Jewish and all, and I had to say I actually felt far more invigorated than I did hurt. I already knew that Nazis and white supremacists existed, and I knew that fascism and antisemetism were on the rise.
But Nazi-punching being so publicly and powerfully endorsed? People fighting openly against that kind of stuff? I gotta say, it really caught me off guard. Even if the situation isn’t great, knowing there are people on your side feels amazing.
Ditto. It really makes all the difference when dealing with nazis to know that folks got your back. That literally saved my life in Denmark and it feels powerful to see signs of hope here.
What I wrote back then:
“True, the way you worded your fictional conversation [back in this strip] is of course somewhat blunt, Dorothy. But I choose to believe that you know this too, and that you would in fact be far more gentler leading into the topic than this when you really talk to her. And if you are in fact doing that, if you are leading it in gently and with the care and love for Joyce I know you have… Well, Joyce may very well surprise you.
You already know she’s strong.
What you may not quite realise is that she’s growing stronger.”
Joyce, you perfect summer shower that makes that wonderful “smell after rain” afterwards! I knew it! I knew you were stronger than Dorothy feared!
And I knew that AS ALWAYS, you’re thinking of other people! Of course you are. Because what you really wish is for people to be happy and safe. True, you’ve had some rather misguided views on how to make that happen (thanks to a somewhat shitty upbringing in terms of “morals”), but dammit if that core part of you isn’t shining through so hard right now, it almost burns my eyes to look at.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: You’re a better human being than I am, Joyce.
Joyce is a really high bar when it comes to being a Good Person.
Oh, and also: Just as predicted, this conversation just ended up strengthening Joyce’s friendship with Dorothy, to the point that it’s now becoming so solid, you could build a skyscraper on it.
Very, very true. They are such good friends, and it’s so beautiful and these wonderful people just keep on melting my heart.
Dorothy, Sal, and Amazi-Amber.
That’s a hell of a group of friends.
Damn, I’ve got 1st degree flash burns from Joyce’s eyes in panel 1.
Likely this fuzzy picture will turn up sharper ones.
What sometimes happens, when an accusation goes public, is that other victims start to speak up.
As much as I cringe at the thought of how many young women Ryan has done this too, I hope some of them come forward.
Timely, though DYW could not have timed this.
She was warned. She was given an explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted.
Persist on Joyce.
Now we just need this posse to head over to Leslie’s and toss Robin out of the apartment.
sometimes Joyce just turns around and hits the “Wisdom” button.
The fucking Wonder Team Justice Squad over here.
I love it!!!
I have to second this! Especially the “love it!” – this comic has so much FEELS (most of them good)
WTJS….hang on that actually sounds really good if you also only use the first letters as a cachy team acronym. I really like that!
Random update. I talked to my landlord today. She had no idea that what she did would bother me. Also, the people she introduced me to as polysexual were her husband and her transwoman tenet. She wanted us to know that we weren’t the only LGBTQ+ in the complex. I told her it was okay and I’m glad she did it, but most of the time I like to feel a person out before telling them because I don’t like the drama I catch from bigots. She understood and apologized. It doesn’t make up for how the librarian reacted that day, but at least I feel better about who my landlord told.
Also randomly, I love Dragon Cave. It’s a collection game where you can breed lineages. Valentines breeding is currently going on if anybody wants to sign up. There are plenty of eggs on the abandoned page with pretty lineages (like this valentine lineage https://dragcave.net/lineage/u7mmU ) so it’s a good time to grab your first eggs which can be hatched on a hatchery (I use Eggs Around the World). I have a few dragons I’m planning on breeding to give away the eggs if anybody needs any. If you’re already on, I’d love to know. It’s kinda cool to see how communities intersect 🙂
Yay, that’s good and that’s good that you were able to have a good conversation with the landlord.
*Appropriate gesture of support*
That’s a lot of good there Cerb. Not something I’m used to being a reaction on one of my life events. The reactions I get are more shock, confusion, and/or sad faces. 😉
On one hand, I’m glad your landlord isn’t being an ass about it and is trying to help other LGBT+ tenants. On the other……yiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiikes. It’s…..good she’s trying but she definitely needed to know that outing is a tenuous TENUOUS beast at absolute best and in this context it is not acceptable.
Oh, it’s definitely Still Not Good in itself; you’re not wrong about that.
I just guess that relatively speaking, it’s now somewhat better than what it was before, and there are times when that’s all one can hope for.
Yeah, this is kinda good news bad news scenario.
Agreed. Upon reflection I think she might think she was playing matchmaker which I’m not even sure what to think about.
Yeah, outing’s a weapon and should be reserved for bad actors like Robin, not used generally.
She used the excuse that she thought I was already out so she thought it was okay. I had to tell her that I’m not in the closet, but I like to get to know somebody before I bring it up because I’ve gotten some really bad nasty reactions and I don’t want that drama. She assured me that nobody would harass me there because it they did it would break their contract which did make me feel better, but still. It’s like running around showing people pictures of my boobs. I’m not ashamed and I’m not hiding, but I should be allowed some say who can see that part of me.
Good thing you manage to get something good out of the situation. High five!
I’ll give you five, but it will be a while before I can legally give you a high five 😉
And I’m glad too.
Willis is problem solving… I don’t like this… it means he’ll introduce Even more bullshit problems now.
You might want to slow down a bit, we are missing important parts here.
What happened with the studying?
Where on earth did Sal and Amazi come from?
When did they decide to go collectivly to Joyce?
So the obviuse selution here is to realese more strips everyday to fill in the blanks. :3 (I don’t have an agenda…just okay)
And this ladies and gentlemen is why you proof read before you post. -_-*
The answer to all that is pretty much just ‘scene transition = time skip forward’. Since Joyce is back from her lab, I’d say probably an hour or so. She probably texted AG and just asked Sal to join to tell her part of what happened.
Where have we seen panel one Joyce before?
Oh:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/repeat/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/neighbor-2/
“The right decisions, even when they are difficult.”
Also, I know he’s not here, but I’m gonna give Hank Brown a nod for backing up Joyce, there and subsequently, on the whole “You’re an adult now. You have the strength to make your own decisions.”
And of course:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/frame/
Be afraid, Ryan. Be very, very afraid.
Oh, good add.
Also.Dorothy once told Joyce that the strength to stand up for her at the fountain was an internal quality of Joyce’s, not something that God did 100% of.
Felt like making this today.
http://i.imgur.com/m2QZdXk.png
Use as you will.
As a Ryan myself I should object to this use of my name, but my high school experience says otherwise. There were at least 8 Ryans in my class, I’m the only one who my friends thought was ok, and I’m not even sure about me. In short, way to go. Ya knocked it outta the park, Willis.
“Covert Revenge Squad” sure sounds like a print volume title to me.
I can’t help but think there’s a band by that name out there somewhere. If there isn’t, there soon will be.
I love that last panel!!!
Oh gods…
I just thought of a horrible thing here.
“I have people to fight for me. Should that everyone on Earth be so lucky.”
The horrible part is that this reminds me how Gashface -also- had people to fight for him. 🙁
That he did. That he did. And folks willing to pick him up by car in an emergency situation with little notice. Ryan definitely has a crew and that crew is definitely not going to react well to this.
Thankfully, Joyce has a crew too. That crew includes Sarah (and her ball bat), Dina (who may not know much about this, but when people come at her and her friends she’s unleashed the raptor), AG (an actual factual superhero), Sal (a rebel badass who’s also good at talking AG out of charging in without a plan), and Billie (who will crush you with her thighs or whatever it is cheerleaders do, and oh look, she’s pissed off lately).
I wouldn’t bet on Ryan’s crew.
Yeah, that’s an important piece of parallelism.
Come to think of it, so did ToeDad.
i just got severe sunburn from joyce’s attitude
I can’t stand how absolutely charming Joyce is in this moment. I relate to her character so much due to reasons better left unsaid, but it moments like these that make her all the better of a character to me.
Are the phrases “should that” and “would that” used interchangeably? I’ve never heard “should that” before.
To be clear, I’m not trying to passive-aggressively correct the writing. I’m actually interested in the answer because regional variations in language are cool as hell
Panel One: DAMN, Joyce has guts. She tends to freeze and panic at first but when she chooses to fight, by god will she fight. This is incredibly brave to warn people. The police most likely would not listen to her, but she can still warn people.
Panel Two: Dorothy’s being great here. Gently explaining what will happen, but being realistic as well. This is not going to be easy for Joyce, and Dorothy wants to recognize that. But she’s not breaking the way Dorothy feared. No PTSD attack.
And Joyce is slumping a little – she knows that that PTSD will come and it will hurt like hell but she wants to catch him, just as Becky predicted.
I like Sal and AG in the background too, clearly having been called in for moral support. AG is serious and on the job – she’s ready to go in for a swing right now and is just waiting on Joyce’s word.
Meanwhile Sal is looking at Joyce and she seems kinda sad. I think she’d hate to put Joyce in a position that’s going to hurt so much, but she also thinks it’s the best realistic option they have to warn folks. She cares about Joyce and her concerned face is adorable, especially considering Sal seems to have the best working knowledge of how sexual assault survival works (which worries me honestly, as Sal shows lots of red flags of having experienced it or loved someone who experienced it, tbh).
Panel Three: That’s a fair point. If you’re gonna get the bad part, may as well get the satisfaction of warning others. Pasting his face everywhere won’t help traumatic flashbacks, but it’ll make it easier knowing hopefully other girls will avoid him at least. Joyce has a great understanding of this and an inner strength that doesn’t come out super often but when it does, it plays hardball.
Panel Four: Awwwww. Dorothy loves Joyce so much! She really was worried this would upset Joyce and that wounds her because she doesn’t want to hurt her. Even though this ended up okay, she really hated bringing it up period, as shown by how she dragged her feet on it.
Panel Five: Awwwwww, Joyce is smiling. She looks like she wants to cry – happy cry, but still. She is not at all crushed by this – it’s gonna hurt, but she’s braced for it.
Panel Six: Yup, screw it, this made me want to cry. Because yeah, having someone willing to fight for you means everything. And knowing they’ll support you outside of the fight means even more. I’m so glad Joyce has her badass friends who will help her.
And I love their expressions too. Dorothy is beaming, because that’s exactly what she needed to hear – she’s part of a solution, not a problem. She’s comforting, not traumatizing.
Sal seems to be taking it, but not quite connecting anything on it. Maybe because she’s been ‘the friend who will fight for you’ before (for good or ill results), maybe because she doesn’t think of herself like that, or maybe that just got caught off by that.
And AG seems more surprised than either. She must hear this all the time. But AG’s kinda hellbent on hating herself, so I guess not that shocking. She seems like she’s looking more at Joyce and less like she’s waiting for the word. It’s nicely humanizing. I approve.