Galasso would enjoy Risk Legacy, though. A simulation of an entirely new world to conquer, with leadership of every faction changing according to maneuvering.
You’re probably right, but I was referring to the “Diplomacy was Henry Kissinger’s favorite game” trope, which wasn’t true, much as we’d all like it to be.
(It’s strictly Europe, so no Australia to invade.)
Speaking of Conquest, she might be in line for a promotion. The real life restaurant that Galasso conquered is getting a second location. Seems about right that Galasso’s starts their global conquest the same way.
triple twelve dimensional chess with a side game of sorry going on inside the overarching game of battleship that will determine the outcome of the enormous game of strip twister that we call life
Willis said that her parents were probably very nice and she’d just learned all the wrong lessons at church. If so, I pity them. No ‘probably very nice’ people deserve to have a daughter like THAT.
I always figured Mike was the opposite of his parents.
Wheras he’s an asshole, but cares pretty strongly about those he chooses to accept, his parents seem welcoming and happy to everyone but use forced civility to make you feel uncomfortable in staying anywhere near them.
This might be me irl. My parents were perfectly nice, friendly people and out of some imagined form of spite I grew up to be an jackass instead. I only let down the assholery for the people I’ve chosen to be my friends, and I’ll stand by them to the death. I try to be an equal-opportunity jackass though, I will literally never understand how people ever actually get to be like Mary. Fuck that.
I get that feeling that, even if she had been raised without any religious influence in her life, Mary would have still found something to be a self-rightous asshole about.
You think Dorothy is more Good Witch of the North, than Joyce? Mike as Tin Man? Hmm, maybe Ethan instead. I see Mike as the Flying Monkeys (like how one guy played all the Oompa Loompas in the Johnny Depp version of Willy Wonka)
I think they fit. Walky is “brainless”, goofy and immature and currently struggling with class. Mike is “heartless”, a deadpan asshole. Ethan is a scaredy cat, big but nervous.
She has some, everyone is just unworthy of it in her eyes.
We have actually seen that she can be ALMOST sociable with people with the same beliefs as herself but if you swing too far into tolerance e.g. letting those damn atheists be your friends then Hell mend you.
Or, if Ruth can bring herself to be honest about her situation, can get her back onto a safe track in college and a room in the dorm, whether or not she remains an RA.
Is that it? I mean, obviously that’s enough, that shit’s terrible, but I could have sworn that Billie found out something else hypocritical that Mary was doing… but those may just be memories of Roomies! sneaking in.
I feel like outing Mary out for those would also mean outing Carla. And as mad as Bille is towards Carla, I don’t think she would be THAT hypocritical just to bring Mary down.
Joyce is unaware of it, at the very least. And we’re not sure how many people Carla has actually told – Sal at the very least. Ruth knows because she’s RA, and Billie via Ruth. Mary may have found out through her snooping.
Of course, Carla’s declaration of a penis on her whiteboard being a hate crime may indicate either that she’s clearly out, or that she’s just angry. But we don’t have enough information to assume she’s out.
Not only did she yell about it being a hate crime in front of everyone, but Sal was not told by Carla. Carla hinted at it (in a way that implied that it was public knowledge, or at the very least an open secret of the ‘don’t tell but don’t hide it either’ variety), but Sal already knew. Joyce not knowing doesn’t really indicate anything – at the time, she didn’t know what bisexuality was either, and she still called being gay/a lesbian a sin. Carla may not be out to the general public (she didn’t want to risk telling the roller derby team) but Joyce not knowing is hardly a good indicator that Carla isn’t out.
It seems like that’s the case, but I also suspect she doesn’t mind that not being the FIRST thing people learn about her.
Though even if she pulled a Becky and was completely irreversibly out to everyone within earshot, Mary’s transphobic remarks were directed at HER. I don’t think it would be right for Billie to make that into a big public Thing without at least checking with Carla if she’s okay with it.
Though I also don’t think Carla is sufficiently out that Billie shouldn’t confirm that as well
I’m kind of under the impression it’s an open secret sort of deal myself.
Absolutely! Don’t use someone as a cause to champion (and beat a bigot with) without their permission. And if you aren’t 100% on how out someone is, CHECK because outing folks can be super dangerous.
I think it’s not that she didn’t want to risk telling them, but she wasn’t sure if they would accept her because of it. Sal: “You’d do good. You’re tall.” Carla: “There’s a reason for that.” Sal: “Yeah, they wouldn’t care.” Or something like that.
Yes, but she used ‘there’s a reason for that’ as a reason not to join the team. Sal assured her they wouldn’t care, but Carla seemed unconvinced (and immediately changed the subject back to Sal).
Joyce is suuuper sheltered though. Like, to the point that I’d be really surprised if she even knows that trans people exist. I am absolutely certain she’s never knowingly socialized with a trans person.
I think that’s part of why Jocelyne is vacillating so hard on whether or not to come out to Joyce – she thinks Joyce will be good, but (and there’s a big but here) you don’t really know how someone will be on a thing until you’ve seen how they act about it. There are folks I came out to in meatspace on the autism and bi fronts that I forever regret coming out to.
Funny thing, the information is already out there, beyond either Billie’s or Mary’s control. It will all probably come out during Ruth’s treatment and the determination of her status.
Also, what exactly does Mary think she has that she can threaten Billie with?
She probably thinks she’s going to antagonize Billie into physically attacking her, at which point she’ll run crying to the ResLife office about a physical attack and insist Billie be removed from the dorm.
Can we just get, like, a twenty panel comic of Mary getting her ass kicked? I know this comic isn’t big on super unrealistically convenient endings, but christ.
And then, as she walks away screaming about getting revenge she gets eaten by a trapdoor alligator… Although i wouldn’t want the poor alligator to get indigestion…
A shame, that. It was blackthorn with a whisker from Smaug inside it. Gonna miss that wand. Maybe Dorothy can loan her the one she uses to play Glinda.
Billy is by far the most dangerous enemy Mary has. She’s enraged, she’s physically dangerous and she feels like she has nothing to lose. If Mary pushes her she could easily end up receiving the kind of beatdown Blaine received from Amber.
Yeah, Carla is a determined pacifist. No matter how much you anger her, the worst she’ll do is craft an elaborate contraption to humiliate you.
But Billie? She’s a “problem solver” and as you note, she feels she has nothing to lose. If Mary pushes her luck, she could find herself in a shallow grave in the middle of a forest.
I don’t expect Billie to get physical unless directly confronted and annoyed. When facing Ruth, she did not use Ruth’s defenseless state to take her revenge, but instead she took a photo (and the booze).
That said, as a former head cheerleader she knows all the ins and outs of highschool power play, and she won’t hesitate to use what she learned there. But I am certain that her comeback will be different from Carla’s, and hurt Mary in some other way.
Not sure if she is out for revenge or simply about to punish Mary.
Mary is a hate singularity
from which no happiness can escape
Here’s hoping that Billie comes from the Sci-Fi school of comic book joy
“if you hit it hard enough, it’ll change”
I know, right? “Augh, Mary’s a transphobic homophobic self-righteous blackmailing ass, I am SO glad to see her get CARLA’d, augh she is awful.”
Mary: *Makes light of suicide/depression being real and implies even if Ruth is on the verge of killing herself, she deserves it, which one Ruth’s bullying has been demonstrated to be tied to her depression and two even if a person’s seriously unsalvageable shit NO ONE deserves to have the unending suck pit in their head that is depression of the suicidal variety.*
Me:… Carla’s glorious prank was insufficient. Mary must be hit with a thousand newspapers.
(Like, seriously, this strip pretty well disproves to me the recurring “Mary’s wristbands hide self-harm scars” theory because that “everyone knows Ruth will be fine” says to me she thinks people who attempt suicide are just faking it for sympathy or attention. Because Mary’s already indicated she thinks things like being LGBT+ are choices done to “get people to like you” and we’ve seen from Joyce’s “Godpurtunity” thing the general sects they grew up in don’t believe mental illness is a real medical condition, I guarantee you she’s viewing this through that same awful lens.
Well, there was the whole “blackmailing the RA in order to get away with verbally abusing other students” thing. That was some pretty severe shit, especially if it’s brought to light that said blackmail is part of the reason why Ruth’s currently in the hospital for suicidal ideation.
That. Not to mention I’m gonna guess that Miss Pudding Cup would love to know about the student who harassed her “formerly top RA” to the point where she completely collapsed and wanted to kill herself.
That really isn’t something that is being risked by going to Ruth’s boss. As head of the RA’s, she already knew about Carla from Day 1 and she now knows about Billie and Ruth.
And whatever else Mary tries to reveal about Billie & Ruth (Ruth’s violence, the alcohol, if that’s not known yet), gets seriously discredited by her blackmailing Ruth.
Especially since Ruth already told Chloe about one of the instances of violence/threats that Mary would have on her (ie slapping a dick onto Mary’s face in the Whiteboard Ding-Dong Bandit storyline).
Oh, it’s not a matter of shame. It’s a matter of the official repercussions she’s gonna face for that. Like at minimum? Probably being moved to a different dorm and like, mandatory diversity classes or something. At maximum? Not only could she be expelled for this shit, she could face criminal charges. Blackmail’s a crime, plus they can make a decent case it’s a homophobic hate crime which will be treated even more seriously, and the fact that it can directly be tied to Ruth’s suicidal ideation? Ideation which, had it gone on any longer, would most likely have led to an attempt or actual permanent damage from the catatonia she was in keeping her from doing even basic self-care?
Yeah. Mary could get into some BIG damn trouble there if the lawyers get involved. Which isn’t impossible, since Carla’s involved in this – sure, she thinks she’s square and doesn’t trust authority figures, but she’s also VERY RICH and I am certain her parents have VERY GOOD lawyers. Either the university could preemptively take action against Mary because they don’t want to be the ones sued, or if Carla tells her parents about this whole incident (like with the intention of getting their help to sponsor Ruth so she can stay on campus or the like) they might decide to do something about the blackmailing bigot who lives in their daughter’s hall and nearly drove their daughter’s new friend to suicide. Unlikely, since I don’t think Ruth or Carla themselves would want to press charges, but very much not out of the realm of possibility.
More likely however, the university would want it swept under the table and kept quite, so no punishment and at most moved to a different dorm to separate her from the others. At most.
Colleges don’t have an exemplary track record of handling LGBTQ discrimination. Getting better, maybe.
The only real thing in this case is that Carla has rich and influential connections. That could make a difference. The privilege of wealth can do a lot to mitigate other forms of discrimination.
Yeah, I think it’s most likely she’ll be moved to a different dorm (and that only if the blackmail comes out and the rest of the hall protests her being there loudly enough,) but Carla’s got leverage that might cause the university to actually do something about it. And if the rest of the hall finds out, it doesn’t have to be the authorities themselves doing anything. For instance, any legal student (such as, say, Sarah) could inform her about how she could face jail time for what she did and Mary strikes me as just enough of a coward in the face of actual consequences to her actions that the threat might be enough.
There’s also losing out on what politeness allows her to keep being a remotely effective jackass in the halls. Though in fairness, I’m not sure Billie can do more there, given that Rachel already ID’d it as blackmail, well… folks are going to be ignoring her harder. And being self righteous is no fun if people aren’t actually paying you any mind.
Yeah, I think Mary was already in for, minimum, the first week of her impending Shunning without whatever Billie’s about to do.
Nice catch about Rachel, I forgot that, though since Mary was only talking about potentially making an “opportunity” out of this or whatever I don’t think they know for a fact that Ruth already WAS blackmailed by Mary, just that Mary planned on trying it. Which is enough they probably all put those pieces together already anyway, but still. Always helpful to have confirmation before you call the RM again, and the fact that it triggered her last descent into catatonia will be new and probably meriting a heretofore undiscovered level of Shun.
Go GET her ass Billie.
I don’t think Mary knows what she just did, and is about to find out.
Billie doesn’t have a job to lose to her.
Mary can’t prove that Billie and Ruth were both in Ruth’s room, and the few that knew are very unlikely to side with Mary.
Mary can’t use Billie’s drinking against her as it’s all out in the open and Billie’s (supposedly) in therapy for her problems.
Billie however has Mary’s little incidents with the verbal assaults by Mary on Carla, and the physical assaults with the glue on the carpet trap set for Carla. And I think Carla would be willing to side with Billie on any evidence needed.
Mary simply does not understand that she is an important and respected person on the dorm floor – in her own eyes only.
Yeah, that’s a nasty little touch. Even after all that, she’s convinced that she’s the voice of the majority, that she speaks for all and her petty obsessions about a twisted morality is what everyone in their dark heart knows to be true.
It’s the nasty edge of that particular flavor of right-wing Christianity. In their head, there’s no atheists and/or queer folk and/or Christians who aren’t assholes. Everyone else is just a liar who makes up these roles to make the poor right-wing Christian look bad even though they know just as well as everyone that what they say is true.
It’s the type of religion seen on Chick Tracts. No one is just living their life, minding their own business if they are not in the tribe, they’re actively trying to shit on people like Mary with their “ways of life” in order to shake their faiths. Because to folks like Mary, they are the only people who matter and everyone else is a pawn piece of God or Satan to battle over their soul.
Carolin Emcke – who just got a Peace Prize of the German Book Trade book – said in her acceptance speech that the people who want everyone to be like them are the danger to open and democratic society. No matter, if their rules to enforce comes from religious or other sources. They are egged on by the hate mongerers who create false dichotomies.
It was a really powerful speech and and actually her presentation makes it more even powerful than the written one.
I don’t think it’s confirmed one way or another, but I strongly suspect she’s bi given that she was Roz’s “analogue” at McAwesome’s in Shortpacked! And Ethan’s analogue was also gay.
“Tread carefully Billy” says the person who literally just failed to tread carefully with the emotionally unstable girl you already crossed who has all the dirt she needs to mess up your life.
Mary, there’s obliviousness, ignorance, and bigotry, and then there’s just bad decision making and threat assessment skills.
She’d be absolutely terrifying if it wasn’t for how often she presses her luck. Which is good. She doesn’t need to perfect her particular brand of nasty passive-aggressive hostility.
Also, it means she gets things like the glorious and ridiculous vengeance of Carla. Or the fact that if she wasn’t on the entire dorm’s shit list before Sunday afternoon, suggesting they blackmail a suicidal woman got her firmly on top of the list. (And when they find out she was blackmailing Ruth until she reached that point and STILL WANTED TO BLACKMAIL HER… that’s one of those things even Joyce at the beginning of the strip would find overwhelmingly horrible, and current Joyce has a weekend’s worth of frustration at the church and righteous fury built up. Oh how I hope she finds out about that one.)
Oh god Mary! No… just no. Nobody deserves what Ruth is going through and you have no clue rather she will be fine or not. You are a gossip, enjoy hurting others, like to boast, act bigoted to those who are LGBTQ+ and any other religion other than your own specific type of Christianity, blackmailed Ruth to try and get your way, tried to convince the others to blackmail a woman who was suicidal because getting what you want is more important than all else, and you never show any remorse for anything you do. How are you any better than Ruth? At least Ruth protects others in need, felt guilty when she messed up, and tried to do better which objectively makes her better than you. So go get help of some kind and get some god damn empathy.
PS: Add about 30 or 40 years on Mary, give her the ability to fake kindness and sweetness when it suits her, and make her an even bigger bible thumper (to the point you think she probably must pray before and after sex) and you have a woman who lives up the road from me.
CONTENT WARNING: Twisted views towards suicide and identity
Sadly in her head, death is only too good for those who have “sinned” by being queer or for being “heathen”. It’s the same headspace as Toedad, just not with the same direct view towards bringing that punishment into place.
But if the heathen does it themselves… well… I suppose that was just God’s will.
I’ve sadly known too many people like this who would never ever kill a queer person, but would gladly create the situation where a queer person felt they had no option but death and then wash their hands afterwards while happily gloating about how “unhappy” that “lifestyle” is.
Ugh, sorry you actually have to deal with people like that…
I’m pretty lucky, I guess, that throughout the twelve+ years in which I attended church with my parents there was never any talk of homosexuality and the like. Well, at least to the best of my recollection, considering I was a baby for the first couple of those years and never quite payed attention for most of ’em.
I’m lucky, not because that kind of thing would have angered me (nowadays, eesh, things would get ugly if I had to sit through a “gays burn in hell” sermon), but because I’m worried that I actually would have believed that utter garbage as a kid.
Considering you’re sitting here typing about it, I’m assuming you handle that kind of nonsense better than I do. I have no patience for (read: I become extremely and visibly angry when dealing with) idiots and bigots, and she sounds like she’s both.
Ironically enough, not wanting to give those bastards the satisfaction of succeeding is definitely at least 90% of why I’m still here. The other 10% is the happy pills that keep me from ever being in that space again.
What kept me going through high school was spite. Pure and unadulterated “I will not give you fuckers the satisfaction of seeing me die.” spite.
See also: Why I think spite is an under-rated human emotion and why I wish we wouldn’t demonize it so much. Spite is neither good nor evil – it’s what you do with your spite that’s good or evil. Spite used to power yourself into living, or into growing into a better person than your parents, or what have you? That’s good, and I don’t give a fuck if it’s spite that’s the source of it.
Hell, arguably, Joyce’s “Becky is family and anyone who has a problem with that should come to me. I’ll fight them. I will.” is spite. She was as much driven by spite for Toedad and those who think like him as she was driven by concern for Becky – and nobody argues with a straight face that Joyce standing up for Becky was not a good thing to do.
The biggest blessing in my life, next to finding my Mate, is getting the happy pills That Work! The doctor who told me we could just stop the ideation without them was fully crap.
… Wait, ideation is a thing you can actually make stop and not just manage with like mindfulness and shit?
Fuck, maybe I should give the MH system another go.
(Asshole therapist who victim-blamed me for being a victim of childhood sexual assault and tried to convince me that my CSA was a “positive learning experience” that taught me “not to be so overly trusting” also was all well some people just have intrusive thoughts of suicidal ideation all the time and as long as you’re not acting on it, it’s probably not a big deal. Trufax: One of the kids I went to HS with – one of the few who was not a bullying little shit – had bipolar and the school therapist refused to refer him to a psychiatrist so he dealt with untreated bipolar for 6 years after it first manifested and wound up hospitalized for 4 months because she insisted he just wasn’t trying hard enough at her behaviorism approach. See also: She is why I’m so reluctant to give MH system a shot again. But fuck if I could get it to stop and not spend a good chunk of the day trying to get the ideation out of my head… that’d be too amazing for words because I am not seriously suicidal but it gets fucking tiring fighting intrusive thought impulses of it all the time, you know?)
OMG! That made me tear-up, just reading it once. (Respectful offer of sympathy). Doc who Helped, the second one, put me on one that worked, totally, then tapered me off that while tapering me onto one that worked even better. 1st med stopped intrusive suicidal thoughts in three weeks, and stopped ALL plotting and planning within five weeks. The 2nd med elevated the mood to, if not cheerful, at least happy enough to get on with my life under my own power, (i.e. Not needing others’ urging to get up and put in a day’s work). Meds are better then they were in the 50s, 60s, 70s. These are not my mother’s meds! They worked for me.
See, cheerful and energetic is not a thing I have trouble with. Mine is more like what I see described by folks with obsessive and anxiety type disorders. I’m just bopping along minding my own business when something triggers it and then it’s just like, “What the fuck, brain?!” and it’s hard to get my head out of it unless I do a thing to distract myself or refocus myself.
(being purposefully vague here so as to avoid getting triggery for people)
But like, I’m already fairly cheerful and happy. It’s just my brain likes to play self-injury impulses and goreporn at me at random intervals. Which is really tiring to deal with. But other than that my life is pretty awesome… IDK hard to describe but yeah if I could, like, NOT lose an hour or two a day to practicing mindfulness to get my brain off having an impulse to hurt myself (and it kind of also plays in with my gender dysphoria – hard to tease out what’s my brain being an asshole and what’s cause by the dysphoria at times) or having a goreporn thought stuck in my head? That’d be fucking awesome. Really fucking awesome. Honestly I thought it was just something I have to deal with b/c that’s what the shitty therapist I had in HS convinced me of. So. yeah.
Also, have you looked into OCD? The thoughts popping in your head with varying strengths of feeling like you have to fight to make them go away is classic OCD bullshit. There’s other things, but that’s part of it (believe it or not, Cracked did two personal experience articles that explain OCD experiences better than I’ve ever seeing in media). It helped me a lot after I got diagnosed with it and got the kind of help I actually needed treating both the major depression and the OCD.
I haven’t but I have a few friends with OCD who pretty much re the only ones who get it so maybe I dunno.
Also thanks for hearing suicidal instrusive thought and not being all OMG go to the hospital cuz like idk hard to explain but I would not actually my brain is just an asshole and very few people get that difference. (This is also why I do not taĺk about it much in meatspace because ppl tend to freak out when I do :/)
*Warning. Graphic details
Before I found the right med and therapy, every time I seen a knife my brain would get on this broken record about grabbing the knife and slitting my carotid and femoral arteries. It was like my brain was some kind of demented twisted version of a toddler screaming random shit and having a tantrum and I was the exhausted adult trying to tell it no, stop, and hush. The sad part is that suicidal ideations can eventually chip away your resolve, but nobody wants to admit they have it and need help because they might be seen as “crazy” or get doped up or put in a psychiatric hospital, so it’s put off until one day it is so bad that help is not optional. I nearly waited too late myself. I wish more people talked about it. Maybe lives would be saved (and by lives I mean both those who take their lives and those who have their days/lives ruined by ideations).
Like I said, a good therapy and med combo after getting a proper diagnosis has done wonders for me. It took time though. Years of therapy and lots of trial and error on meds, therapists, and techniques. Now it’s rare for me to have it happen and the screaming toddler is more like a whiny one even when it does happen. I’m not saying what I did will work for you, but I sure as hell hope so because I remember how it was for years and boy did it suck!
Trying to explain it to people was a rodeo. My brain randomly tells me to hurt myself but I don’t want to so I have to try and get the thoughts out of my head led them usually to thinking “Oh my god you’re gonna kill yourself!”, “Oh my god you’re hearing voices!”, or just dismissive so I clammed up about it for far too long while everybody thought I was fine. The ones that understand usually have dealt with it personally, are professionals, went to a class that covered it, or read an article or something on it. People can surprise you in good ways sometimes though and help and understanding can end up coming from the most oddest of places.
Here here! Being a good person as an example of how we aren’t evil or some bs is the best way to change minds and having the strength to push forward through the bigotry makes you stronger than they could ever hope to be. And thank unicorn for medication! They cut off the lowest range of our emotions without destroying the rest. I’m on Paxil and it just makes me feel… normal. Depression is a given after a nightmare childhood topped off with chronic pain and OCD (which is so badly misunderstood by the general populous that it’s exhausting), but my med helps keep me from getting to the lowest low where the emotional pain is so bad that I start thinking seriously about suicide. It may not be easy to find the right med, but once you do it’s a real life saver. 🙂
Oh, yes, this! Yes.
Er, triggery stuff to follow.
OCD runs in the family like a slow sweet river of anxiety. When it gets out of hand, .. I … Do stuff. Same stuff my mom used to do. The med I’m on helps with that -mostly. Doc gave me something tiny, yellow, works way too well, and I don’t ever take it. It is not the one of them that works for me. The first one, the awesome one, helped majorly with the OCD. But,.. For some males …er, .. Side effects, so then the switch to a better med for me. And coping strategies for the OCD triggers, which pretty much give me a normal looking life from the outside, and pretty much no panic on the inside- either. You can tell because I can go months with no blood on my hands. *grin*
*hugs*
Glad you found something that helped. Do you have a pet like a dog or cat? They really help me with anxiety and stress and when the OCD flares up, I can focus on giving them attention and/or care. There’s also no shame in going for a walk or finding a place to rock which helps burn up some of that nervous energy 🙂
… You sound like you quite possibly attended the same (or a very similar) high school to the one I attended. When kids weren’t threatening corrective rape, they were doing their level best to make me think that death was my only way out. :\
Unfortunately, I know about this already due to living in a small southern town in the US. The woman I compared to Mary believes that homosexuality is just the devil twisting us and requires intestinal fortitude to not fall into temptation like an alcoholic or gambler. She also told me after I miscarried (the one and only time I’ve been able to get pregnant) that it was my body telling me that my boyfriend didn’t love me because no man who loves and respects a woman would sleep with her outside of wedlock.
I have severe hemiplegic migraines and hypothyroidism and have been told by more than one person that I needed to toss my meds and let god heal me. I went to a fertility clinic where the doctor and staff were very nice until they found out I didn’t go to church because I was an atheist. They literally walked out leaving me crying after telling me I was anovulatory (sp?) and needed expensive treatment not covered by my insurance to get pregnant. On the way out, they handed me pamphlets on meds and sperm donors and said “You can go now” without even a fake smile.
People are idiots especially the over religious ones. It’s part of the reason I can’t be as open about being an atheist polysexual as Becky is with being a lesbian even though I’d like to be.
Except Trump only pretends to be Christian and badly at that. He can’t even think of one bible verse off the top of his head, when he was saying a written bible quote he called it two Corinthians, and up until he was running for president he listed his book (which he didn’t write) as his favorite book. I have yet to figure out why hard core Christians want to vote for him even though out of the two, Hillary is the proven Christian who just happens to be in blue. Basically they would vote for a cabbage if it was dressed in red.
Because for a large strain of right wing Christians in the US, Christianity is about hating the right people. Trump hates the right people, so he’s in.
Been saving this one for the next time Mary and Bully went head to head.~
*tunes up guitar, then starts to play Lilly Allen*
Look inside…
Look inside your tiny mind, then look a bit harder
Coz we’re so uninspired, so sick and tired…
Of all the hatred you harbor
So you say…
It’s not okay to be gay…
Well I think you’re just evil.
You’re just some racist who can’t tie her laces.
Your point of view is medieval, ooooh
F**k you!~
F**k you very very muuuuch!~
Coz we hate what you do…
And we hate your whole crew!
So please don’t stay in tooouch!
F**k you!~
F**k you very muuuuch!
Coz your words don’t translate, and it’s getting quite late…
So please don’t stay in toooouch!~
The worst thing she’s done is try to ignore and distance herself from Walky, and you could argue that has more to do with her trying to distance herself from anybody or anything that would remind her of the DUI that ruined her
She’s stopped though, and hasn’t done anything to torment or manipulate anyone since she arrived. She hasn’t been a plaster saint, buts she’s far from being a nasty boingo like Mary has been.
Do you get,
Do you get a little kick out of
Being small minded?
You want to be like Toefather
It’s moral high ground you’re after
Well that’s not how you find it.
Do you…
Do you really enjoy living a life that’s so hateful?
Cause there’s a whole where your soul should be
You’re losing control of it…
And its really distasteful, oooh…
Disgusting. Saying that Ruth’s suicidal thoughts and actions and the result of which are “getting what she deserves” makes Mary the lowest of the low. I want her out of the strip, even though that’s not realistic.
Mary is literally insane, isn’t she. Like, Trump-crazy, where she doesn’t grasp that other people have thoughts and are not just objects that inexplicably do things that may be convenient or inconvenient to her.
No no no. She is completely sane. This is merely a run-of-the-mill asshole who was taught to believe absolutely horrible things, and bought into all of it because it justifies being horrible to people.
I see a distinction between, say, butthole dad, who, as Amazi-Girl points out, is not crazy, just an incredible asshole, who was taught to believe absolutely horrible things, and because of that does terrible things to people he professes to love, but who at least seemed able to grasp that there were people – evil, wrong, and sinful people, of course, but still – who had other opinions, and Mary, who in this strip, and more in some other recent appearances, seems literally unable to understand that other people, even the very people she’s tormenting because she thinks they’re evil abominations, could possibly disagree with her.
(Whew, that sentence is finally over.)
She’s like a walking Chick tract, except without the bit where the narrator cites a Bible verse and the sinners don’t want to be Elfstar anymore.
Normally agree with almost everything you post. BUT according to the Mayo clinic site, severe Narcissism IS a toxic mental disorder, even if he seems to be enjoying it. It is still an illness, and would be better if he sought treatment, (IMAO).
1, Narcissistic personality disorder was removed from the latest DSM because most of what’s exhibited there can be considered bad coping skills and/or parts of other disorders.
2, Armchair psychology is both very stigmatizing and highly unethical – and I repeat what I said about ableism showing. I doubt if people were genuinely concerned about Trump’s mental health and not about “SEE?! HE’S CRAZY! CRAZY IS BAD! WE CAN’T LET HIM BE PREZ!” and making themselves feel superior, the tenor of the discussion around his mental health would be where it is now. Don’t get me wrong: I despise Trump. I think he’s a dictator in the mold of Putin or Mussolini in the making. But it is not okay to speculate on a public figure’s mental health for the purpose of dragging their public image through the dirt. If that’s not in the definition of ableism, it damn well should be as an example. It’s a pretty textbook case and does not do the left-wing side of the argument any favors. Arguments like that are right up there with those arguing that he has a speech disorder and therefore is unfit (as someone with a speech & communication disorder, people who think that makes you unfit for a job involving communication are just plain wrong. In meatspace, I’m the public face of my company because I do very well when I have scripts to work off and when I’m in a comfortable environment or setting – especially when I’m talking instrumentation and test methods because that’s one of my passions.)
A great case against Trump for prez can be made without throwing PwD under the bus. So how about we focus on real and valid reasons why he’d be a disaster as president and not on saying, “Well, I as a person with zero expertise in mental health diagnosis and treatment thinks that he matches this unnuanced checklist I found on the internet and that means he’s like mentally ill people and therefore would be a bad president!” Which is not what people are literally saying, I admit, but all of the subtext is there. Even if he is mentally ill, his mental illness on its own is not what makes him unfit: His morality (or lack thereof, rather), his greed, his selfishness, his dishonesty, his bullying nature, his inconsistency, his lack of self-control, his lack of discipline, his lack of understanding of global affairs, his lack of understanding of state affairs, his lack of understanding of how law and government work, his policy resemblance to famous dictators of the past, his documented racism, his documented sexism, his documented ableism, his documented homophobia, his documented transphobia, his lack of apparent awareness of basic science, his genuinely terrifying ideas, and his refusal to listen to anyone who has even the barest hint of disagreement with him all are far better reasons to vote no than “I think he might be mentally ill and wooooo mentally ill is scary” and fanning the flames of ableist bigotry in exactly the same way he’s fanned the flames of racist and sexist bigotry throughout his campaign.
… and sorry for the rant – trump scary because mentally ill is a thing I’ve been dealing with from all sides lately so I reacted more strongly than I normally would have.
I could go on here. There is so many things that are based in his actual conduct and not in ableism that could be used to argue against his fitness. Even if he does have a mental illness, I don’t see how it’s relevant to the discussion of whether or not he’d be a good president (there have been several good mentally ill presidents – Abraham Lincoln being one) when his actual conduct is so troubling.
Yeah, “crazy” is neither good nor bad. Unpleasant to have in your head, generally (hey there, intrusive dream that made me actually harm myself! Fuck you brain, stop trying to kill me,) but not a moral alignment or failing.
That lack of willingness to believe other people have thoughts or feelings different from your own? That’s an offshoot of being insulated from other opinions and people in general, and in Trump’s case I genuinely don’t think he’s ever seriously been told “no” in his life. If anything, we as a society ENCOURAGE people like Mary. I mean hell, we’re the only country that treats climate change as a theory and not the objective observations of what we’re living in. Creationism is a fringe thing not just among world religions as a whole but even within Christianity – the Catholic Church as an institution accepts evolution.
No, these people are probably completely neurotypical, the sickness is in a society that says “Well there’s value in both sides” and lets this shit go unchecked, or if it takes issue decides to throw the mentally ill under the bus instead of addressing the actual problem.
I think that Mary lass is a fine upstanding individual with many sterling positive personality qualities! Singing, smiling, extolling virtues. What’s not to praise? Really, it is only because of rampant anti-white Christian bias that anyone could see something to fault in her gracious holy actions…
*twitch*
FUDGE YOU, MARYYYYYYYYYY!
Panel 1: Holy fucking shit is Mary just the slimiest pile of shit on the planet. Just right back to bullying like it was nothing and doubling down right in front of witnesses expecting the social expectations of politeness to protect her simply because she’s got a smile on her face and what is likely a pleasant lilt to her voice.
And that first line, about being surprised to see her, “considering”. Because of course, in her twisted fucked up head, being outed as queer, as in love with a woman, in a relationship with the RA is supposed to humiliate Billie. Be something she slinks away from the light to avoid how the hall will treat her.
Even though everyone saw that the RA was in trouble, that Billie burst in to comfort her, to keep her alive. Even though everyone likely knows that Mary is in some way responsible for the state Ruth was in or tried to make it worse.
And the disgusting vile cherry is that last line. She feels no shame in nearly killing a person simply because she dared to be queer and stand up for a trans person. In nearly driving someone single-handedly to suicide. And not only does she feel no shame, she’s starting right up trying to make it two for two by doing the little digs she did against Ruth against Billie.
And Billie? Right now? She’s in no state to politely deal with that shit and no reason to do so now that the big secret is out. But the fact that Mary had the gall to try is just… ugh, she’s such a perfect villain at every level it makes my goddamn skin crawl, because I’ve dealt with this type of shit-flinger.
The bully who’ll drive anyone marginalized to suicide with a goddamn song in their heart and who will always exploit the merest position of power in service to that goal. With no fucking shame. Who’ll fuck with your head and mental health and play that dangerous game because if you check out, they can pretend there’s no blood on them.
She feels no shame in nearly killing a person simply because she dared to be queer and stand up for a trans person. In nearly driving someone single-handedly to suicide.
Mary’s a bully, but she’s not Machiavelli or Moriarty. Her half-assed attempt at blackmail imploded almost immediately and Ruth was in a downward spiral LONG before then.
Mary didn’t make Ruth a drunk, or turn her into an emotional train wreck, or force her to break school policies and sleep with a student under her care. Ruth did that all on her own.
Ruth is a spiteful, bitter, abusive, depressed, self-destructive alcoholic whose vices and bad attitude make everyone around her miserable by association and who has bullied and peer-pressured poor Billie into an unhealthy, co-dependent “relationship”… and it’s about time we all stop making excuses for her for the sake of keeping a sinking ship afloat.
I’m not arguing that Ruth did not have severe depression before Mary ever came along. Nor am I arguing that Ruth doesn’t have many, MANY flaws.
But Mary actively walked in on that depression and actively intended to make that worse, played with Ruth’s suicidal ideation and actively risked her end all because she got on Mary’s shitlist. Because she dared to be queer and in Mary’s eyes, that justifies playing fast and loose with her depression in a terrible way.
And that costs lives. That attitude exists in our real world, that views someone struggling with depression as someone “weak” who it is “fun to play with”. To try and encourage suicide because it is a game or because it’s not real or because the target “deserves” it by whit of being mentally ill or non-normative or whatever excuse you could throw.
It’s a “game” others have tried to play with me, because I’m trans. Because I’m ace. Because I’m open about my struggles with depression. Because I am queer. Because they could smell all that on me before I could. Because in the eyes of their God they would be rewarded for their game. Because it was easier and more justifiable way of “solving a problem”.
It’s something I recognize because I’ve lived through it.
And I especially want to note with your final paragraph three things.
1) No one deserves having their life toyed with like that, their depression intentionally worsened with stress so they believe they are out of options to live their life freely, to have that compounded with blackmail. If Mary was to develop depression and a character I truly love like Carla or Becky were to do what Mary did to Ruth, I would be appalled. Because no one deserves that shit. No one.
2) “Relationship”. Fuck you. It is codependent, yes. It has many aspects of unhealthiness, yes. It began with intense abuse that colors the whole relationship even if they have moved on from that terrible initial phase, yes. But it is a relationship. A dysfunctional one, yes. But a real one. The feelings are real, the love is real, the attraction is real. You can say it’s not a good relationship for them and that both people would be better moving on from it. But you can’t fucking say it’s not a relationship.
3) You genuinely think we’re noting the awful shit Mary pulled because we’re mourning a fucking Ruth/Billie ship? Fuck you.
Not to mention the fact Mary didn’t target Ruth for being a terrible RA – she targeted her for fucking Billie. And she didn’t plan on getting her fired so much as she lashed out with blackmail like a toddler throwing a hissy fit because Ruth called her on her transphobia.
Well, partly. (And I can’t believe I’m kind of defending Mary here.)
She targeted Ruth because Ruth wasn’t the kind of authority she thought Ruth should be – this includes Ruth slapping the penis onto her and not dealing with the white board dingdong bandit fast enough and more generally not keeping the floor righteous and godly enough to suit Mary and letting the queers and weirdos have the run of the place. For not being Mary, essentially.
She targeted Ruth because Ruth had power that she could take and wasn’t using it in a “godly” enough fashion to suit her.
Knowing she was fucking Billie was a means, not the reason. If she’d had something else, she’d have used that.
I doubt she’d actually object to Ruth’s use of violence, as long as it wasn’t directed at her, but at enforcing her standards of “Christian behavior” – including as in her one actual attempt to make Ruth do something other than not report her, dragging the floor into public prayer.
That’s a good point, but the fact we didn’t get to see her plan anything against Ruth before she found out she was bi and the fact she ranted more about that than her lousy RA skills makes it look more like this is (at least a good chunk) about Ruth being bi.
I think it’s subtler. It’s not lousy RA skills certainly. At least not what we see as her lousy RA skills.
It’s about Ruth being bi, but that’s kind of incidental. It’s about Ruth allowing perverted vagrants onto the floor and standing up for and generally not making the floor like the insular little Christian world Mary dreams of. “Defiling the cheerleader” admittedly made it worse, since she was involved herself, rather than just allowing it to go on.
Yeah, Mary wouldn’t mind those lousy RA skills if they were directed at the people she thinks they should be directed at – the aforementioned “perverted vagrants”, the *insert slurs* giving into their carnal urges, even just the girls who aren’t deferring to her as the patriarchal societyGod-approved moral authority she should obviously and rightfully be. Mary would totally be using those lousy RA skills if she were in that position. Hell, she’d probably be using worse. But since she’d be using them for her righteous and good, godly path, such means are necessary to steer these sinners back on the proper path and/or prevent her soul from being tarnished by their presence.
No one deserves having their life toyed with like that, their depression intentionally worsened with stress
Fair point.
It is codependent, yes. It has many aspects of unhealthiness, yes. It began with intense abuse that colors the whole relationship even if they have moved on from that terrible initial phase, yes. But it is a relationship. A dysfunctional one, yes. But a real one. The feelings are real, the love is real, the attraction is real. You can say it’s not a good relationship for them and that both people would be better moving on from it. But you can’t fucking say it’s not a relationship.
Yes, it is a relationship, but it’s not a healthy one, not remotely. Whether the attraction is real or not doesn’t change the fact that most of the relationship has been marred by abuse – emotional abuse, physical abuse, substance abuse, etc – and I can’t imagine there’d be so many people coming out to defend the relationship if it were anyone else putting Billie through that hell.
It’s Billie putting herself through that hell. It’s a screwed up relationship, but it’s not one-sided. Billie’s at least as much of an alcoholic as Ruth and was before they met. The abuse before the relationship was nasty, but from then on it’s been much more mutual co-dependence and violent play.
And don’t try and pull a “So I got it wrong with a month or a week, big deal” or anything like that. You were clearly looking for an excuse to put Becky down, and you thought you had it. Of course, when Fart Captor and Bagge and Greenygal came out with some ass-kicking -facts- to the table, you were nowhere to be found. No “Oh, I guess was wrong, my apologies” anywhere. If you’d done that back then, then maybe I could’ve bought it now.
Oh, and is it the very same Janet that somehow made Carla an equivalent feudalist to Mary? Why yes, I believe that it is! At least you responded one time to Cerberus back then, though after Cerberus gave an excellent free lesson in what it’s like to be trans in real life and how people like Mary are the main reason the suicide rates of transpeople are so staggeringly high… You vanished. Big fucking surprise
Just saying that the way you keep trying to find ways to safely put down LBGQT people in the strip is being noticed, Janet. Because yeah, you never really put down Mary. Heck, you tried to make it seem like Carla and Mary should find “some middle ground”, as if a trans person can find some fucking middle ground with the type of person that sincerely wishes they never existed! Should Carla try to only half-exist, huh? HUH? Yeah fucking right!
Just give up, Janet. We can see through your weak attempts of minimizing just how much of an ass Mary is. And we know where to find your shit.
I’m not going to pretend Mary isn’t an ass, Norton – hell, most of the animosity aimed at her by characters and commenters alike is well deserved.
What I object to is this tired notion that because she’s an ass it makes her a “brilliantly-written villain” and that anyone she’s antagonized must be a blameless victim. Ruth is not a saint. Carla is not a goddess. Becky is not the Second-Coming. That doesn’t make them bad people, it just makes them people – people who shouldn’t be put up on a pedestal by this community and declared immune from criticism or being called on their crap.
And what I MOST object to is you and Cerb and all the other commenters who rush in every time I call them on it who immediately resort to the same, old, tired, baseless insults. “Oh, she doesn’t like my favorite LGBTQ character – she must be some sinister, hand-wringing bigot!!!” You know nothing about who I am, what my sexual identity is, what kind of prejudice or abuse I’ve lived through – it doesn’t even cross your mind. Not for a second. I disagree with you – I must be a bigot. I don’t think Ruth is a blameless victim – I must hate all LGBTQ people. Anything else you want to throw at me? Please, go right ahead. Hey, I don’t like Sal that much – I guess that makes me a damn, dirty Aunt Tammy then, huh? That’s how this works, right?
Screw you. I stand by my opinions. I still think Becky needs to get her s*** together, I still think Carla goes out of her way to poke every sleeping bear she runs across, and I still think Ruth has a f***ing problem. She’s had a problem for a LONG time, and the idea that she was somehow “driven to suicide” by Mary’s half-assed attempt at blackmail is giving her WAY too much credit.
You’re welcome to disagree with me. Hell, I welcome it. (and don’t worry, I won’t call you a bigot for it!)
Ruth has serious problems. No one denies that. Mary saw those problems and went “I can use this” and went and twisted the knife deeper. She may have been on the edge and might have stumbled over on her own eventually, but Mary still gave her a good big push.
This is a real thing. This happens. It happens to vulnerable people. People with depression or other problems. Some people here have talked about living through it. Others, not here, haven’t lived through it.
I think you are doing a lot of victim blaming.
Sure, Carla could be more careful about who she offends. She could walk on eggshells at all times. She might be safer that way. But she shouldn’t have to and blaming her for not doing so (or far worse, blaming real people in similar situations for not doing so) doesn’t help us get to the point where they don’t have to.
It would be great if Becky had her shit together. If she somehow knew what she needed to get a job and find a place to live and could pull all of that together and stop being a burden on her friends in the two weeks since her life exploded, but she’s a homeless teenage lesbian who’s been controlled and limited all her life precisely to keep her from having her shit together. It’s ridiculous to think she would. Frankly, it’s almost unbelievable she’s as together as she is, even without the added trauma of the happy fun gun times and then facing Carol & John & that church.
And few think these characters are perfect – cooing over Dina & Becky’s cuteness aside. Even Cerberus has critiqued them. Just not over the things you attack them for.
“the idea that she was somehow “driven to suicide” by Mary’s half-assed attempt at blackmail is giving her WAY too much credit.”
I…what? You’re showing a stunning lack of understanding of cause and effect. Yes, Mary absolutely was responsible for Ruth’s suicide attempt, by way of ripping away her support structure; unhealthy and codependent as it was, Billie was keeping her above water. Take that one float away, and she drowns.
There’s plenty of valid reasons to dislike Ruth, Carla and Becky, and plenty of ways to express that without being hurtful towards real people who’ve been in similar situations, but you went straight for “reminding everyone of the victim’s flaws (real or imagined) because clearly they don’t deserve as much sympathy as they’re getting”.
Who Mary’s victims are or how “innocent” or “blameless” they are or are not does not change how vile her actions are. It has absolutely no effect on the moral landscape. Especially since her reasons for targeting them has nothing to do with their actual flaws.
Yeah, Ruth is a terrible RA right now and her relationship, even with its good moments, is problematic as hell, on multiple levels. That doesn’t justify blackmailing and nearly driving her to suicide. Even if that wasn’t the result Mary intended (and I’m not completely convinced of this), she clearly did not care if it happened. When everyone found out how bad it was, Mary’s only concern was holding onto her leverage, knowing what might happen, and had already come too close to happening.
Being a jerk and a deliberate pain in the ass doesn’t justify transphobic hate speech towards Carla, either. Sure, she could avoid antagonizing assholes like Mary and keep her head down, but she should not have to do that just to “qualify” for basic human empathy.
Lastly, I don’t care if you’ve lived through the exact same scenario that lead to Becky’s current situation, and were somehow employed and self-sufficient later that same day. It still wouldn’t make your constant whinging about how Becky needs to “get her shit together” any less absurd or unfounded. Being “responsible” here doesn’t mean “spending your every waking moment job-hunting” (though it’s damn impressive how quickly she resumed it after being kidnapped at gunpoint). Even someone who isn’t a doubly-traumatized teenage runaway would quickly burn out from that, and since she is one, not collapsing into a sobbing, gibbering heap should be a priority. She’ll never manage to put her life back together if tries to just power through non-stop and ignore the strain on her own mental health.
But by all means, keep victim-blaming and brushing off the hostile response because we’re just “unwilling to see the character’s flaws”, and don’t ever consider that maybe the nature or the tone of your criticisms might actually be hurtful to real people.
Mary’s actions are vile and sadly common. And to try and justify that shit and hint hint nudge nudge that Ruth’s relationships aren’t real or that the only reason anyone could find the sadly common life experience of people trying to drive mentally ill queer kids to suicide is because they just can’t bear to see flaws in the beloved queer characters is a special level of just… no.
And I love how the bigot brigade always seems to forget the many many times I’ve called out characters I love on their shit.
Hell, you called out Becky for trying to trick Dina into taking her hat off less than a week ago!
Dina has yet to be terribly problematic in a way she can be blamed for – by which I mean: I don’t think it’s fair to shit on Dina for letting Amber’s dad in because 1, that’s a mistake an NT person probably would’ve made (and did make – hi Danny) and 2, blaming an autistic person for not being able to read a social situation is like blaming a wheelchair user for not being able to run a marathon. It’s not exactly fair. But I’m sure she’ll get her chance.
But Becky’s been called on her tendency to try to bypass the “asking for consent” stage of sexual/kink stuff (like Dina’s hat, which normally would not be a sexual thing, but Becky’s kink makes it sexual in the context of her relationship with Dina). Joyce has been called on her tendency to blindly accept the biases she was raised with and shove her religion down others’ throat (hell, I’ll say this: I used to despise Joyce. She was every obnoxious god-botherer I’ve ever dealt with who makes shit difficult for me as a queer disabled atheist. But she’s grown, both on me and as a character, which is why I respect her as a character, and I’ve even grown to like her over the recent story arc). AG’s been called out for being a stalkery racist goon on more than a few occasions. Ruth was called out for sexually assaulting Billie. Billie was called out for being an asshole to Walky and others. Walky’s been called out many many many many times for pretty much being Walky. I could go on here.
We’re not siding with Ruth and Billie here because they’re special snowflakes who can do no wrong. In my case, I’m siding with them because I’ve been there with people trying actively to drive me to suicide and I know first-hand how fucked up a situation that is and how massively unfair it is to be blamed for. Being targeted for my sexuality is a thing I’ve experienced. And let’s be perfectly fucking clear here: The only reason Mary is not including threats of corrective rape in her harassment is because she’s a woman. If she was a guy, there’d be all of the disgusting, “I should come to your room tonight and show you what a real man is like,” *insert crotch grab and hip thrust* type shit.
(yes, that is a comment I got after putting a safe space sticker on my door in the dorm my first year of Uni – after being too afraid to for three months because I came from a rural area and was fully expecting harassment and corrective rape threats. While I was putting the damn thing on, our resident bigot asked me why I “loved queers.” I told him that I was bi and he could fuck off. My RA said I “contributed” to the situation by telling the guy homophobically harassing me to fuck off before he threatened-by-implication to rape me. And therefore no action was warranted over a rape threat.)
Janet, you do not get to slap on the label “Not a homophobe!” just because you don’t actively want queer people dead. Making excuses for someone’s homophobia is in itself homophobia, ya dingus.
You may not realize that you hate queer people, but you need to ask yourself: why do you dislike all the queer women characters and in the same breath defend the openly homophobic and transphobic character? Maybe it’s because your opinions don’t exist in a vacuum, and are actually influenced by your biases and bigotries.
Not to mention, the idea you put forward that because these lgbt characters are not freaking paradigms of perfection and have the NERVE to not be nice to someone who openly hates their existence, that they deserve to be subjected to bigotry. No one should have to be nice to someone who hates them because they would be put in danger if they weren’t. You shouldn’t treat the humanity of queer people, such as myself, as conditional based on whether we’re subservient to the straight majority or not.
Maybe take a god damn minute sometime to think about how your thoughts and opinions are influenced by a culture of bigotry.
You may not realize that you hate queer people
Wow! I’m learning so much about myself from all these complete and total strangers today! Are you a psychic? Can you see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
they deserve to be subjected to bigotry
At no point did I say that. No one deserves to be subjected to hate for who or what they are, BUT being a victim of bigotry, no matter how blatant, hateful, or obscene – does not absolve someone of THEIR bad choices, THEIR problems, and THEIR mistakes. Mary’s behavior is unacceptable, but it’s incredible how much of Ruth’s violent, abusive, and self-destructive behavior (both past and present) people are willing to overlook.
I don’t see where anyone has said it absolved them of anything. Nor that Ruth’s depression, self-loathing, or alcoholism excuse her of all the bad things she’s done.
Neither of these is required for people to feel sympathy for her.
ah, I see you decided to ignore what i was saying in favor of getting pissy over being called homophobic. didn’t see that coming.
This may surprise you, but I don’t need to personally know you or read your mind to tell if your being homophobic. I just have to read your comments, your biases are pretty plainly laid out there. As I said, you’re defending a homophobe, and you only bring up her faults when defending yourself from claims of homophobia. Plus, the label of “homophobe” is not a label chosen by homophobes, it’s a label given by queer people to point out those who are dangerous to us. You don’t get to choose that you’re not a homophobe once i call you a homophobe. You have you prove that you’re not a homophobe, which requires a lot of work, and self awareness that you clearly lack.
So, like I said, and I’m going to put this in all caps and bold it this time so you don’t miss it, but will probably ignore anyway: YOU NEED TO QUESTION YOUR THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS AND HOW THEY ARE INFORMED BY BIASES. If you want to claim that you’re not bigot, you have to do the work that comes with that, and questioning your biases is on the top of that list.
Another thing you can do is instead of getting offended as though “bigot” is the worst thing you could ever possibly be called is to ask “What can i do to change that?” and then committing to that change.
And you did in fact say:
“What I object to is this tired notion […] that anyone [mary’s] antagonized must be a blameless victim. Ruth is not a saint. Carla is not a goddess. Becky is not the Second-Coming. ”
“Blameless victim”? that’s you saying they deserved it. Ya bigot.
You’re right. Mary’s not a Machiavelli. She doesn’t have to be.
She’s a human, petty bully, who actively tried to push someone to suicide. That happens a fuckload more often than you think it does. Hell, I know of five users just in the regular posters on DoA who have survived someone trying that shit (me and Cerberus included). Not all kids survive it. Heard of Rehtaeh Parsons? Amanda Todd? Phoebe Prince? Sara Clerkson? Jadin Bell? Tyler Clementi? Ryan Patrick Halligan? Jamie Hubley? I could go on.
Petty, minor bullies intentionally pushing already-troubled people (sometimes people whose troubles they helped create in the firs place) over the edge is not something that requires a Moriarty level intellect. It is perfectly banal. A child can do it. I know because children have done it. Children tried to do it to me, constantly, for 9 years (between age 8 and 17, when I graduated from HS and immediately moved 800km away to a school where nobody from my high school was attending so I could get the fuck away from them).
Cerberus is not painting Mary as a supervillan. Rather, Willis (intentionally, I suspect because dude’s got chops) is painting Mary as the perfect example of the banality of evil.
Panel 2: Billie is done with your shit, Mary. Billie is done with all your shit. And now that Ruth is outted, Billie has literally zero reason to keep playing your twisted game. You can thank Carla for that checkmate, by the way. As Billie notes, you lost before you even knew it.
Panel 3: Nnngh *bites through pillow* So utterly loathsome. Just instantly gliding away from the direct responsibility, full of bullshit, playing off what a dangerous game she just played with her mental health, and then still heavily implying that Ruth “deserved” to nearly die (and you just know Mary wouldn’t have given one single fuck if the nearly was absent in that sentence), simply because she dared to be queer.
Because in her twisted theology, Ruth’s queerness is not about a codependent women-loving-women relationship with a woman who reached into her darkness and made her feel things for the first time in a while. Is not about her orientation or her life.
It’s an attack on Mary, on Mary’s beliefs, on Mary’s righteousness. On Mary’s soul. It’s Jack Chick’s philosophy, La Haye and Jenkins’ philosophy, Pat Robertson’s philosophy.
People who are “sinners” don’t exist as people, just living their lives, thinking nary a thought of assholes who use their religion as a weapon except where it is used to attack them. Instead, they are agents of Satan actively attacking the moral righteousness of the chosen and serving as set-pieces to show one’s holiness against.
It’s the mentality that lead Carol to care far more about showing how anti-Becky the lesbian she was than to show an ounce of genuine care and concern over her daughter and her daughter’s friend who both nearly lost their lives. Because their lives don’t really matter except through the lens of her soul.
And Mary lives in that, thrives on that, envisions herself as the queen bee.
And it’s what allows her to delude herself that amidst her hall showing their strong condemnation of her bullshit, amidst her hall hating her, that everyone knows in their darkest of hearts that she is right. That her “morality” is correct and that her petty bigotries against queer folk is what everyone secretly agrees with even though they are under orders of Satan to pretend otherwise.
That even the woman who loves Ruth with all her heart, who ran into a room to try and save her when she heard she might kill herself knowing that it would out the both of them, would agree that Ruth should have died for being queer and daring to defy Mary.
And it’s sick, because it’s the root of a lot of stuff that’s real. Where queer lives, queer loves are just seen as props in a game of who wins the most Satan or God points. Where we are not legitimate as we are, simply as things to destroy to prove a moral point.
Panel 4: Honestly, I’m baffled why she doesn’t just pull that switch anyways. Ruth and Billie have nothing to lose. It can only help Ruth by explaining some of her collapse to the RA. And Mary has not only lost all her leverage but is actively gloating over the body she nearly created like a two-bit villain.
Like, I get that you probably don’t want to talk to Ruth’s boss more than necessary, but there’s really no reason for her to imply shit here rather than making sure Mary burns on the pyre she made.
I dunno, maybe I’m missing something.
Panel 5: Threats, threats, and more threats. Always the terrorism to prevent any real consequences for her actions. And the said thing is how many times she must have got away with this shit simply because she went after people too marginalized to fight back effectively to believe that this will always work.
I think Billie doesn’t pull the switch for the worst reason . She doesn’t play this like a rightfully angry student (like Sarah would for example). She plays this like another Bully in a turf war.
I get the impression she was pretty good at that back in high school.
I think Billie is holding back hoping Mary will take the opportunity to dig herself in even deeper. Which may be a little of long experience of not being taken seriously when trying to convince people of anything and a little of sadism – nothing like someone so fully deserving of eating shit as Mary to bring out our cruelty.
Cause she has absolutely no trust in anyone outside to understand or help? Cause she’s depressed?
Cause she’s “head chearleader, problem solver” and if she can’t handle it herself, she’s a failure?
Cause she needs therapy as badly as Ruth and seems less likely to really get any.
Not good for anyone, but in keeping with her character.
On a more thematic level, because it looks to me like a huge part of the point of this chapter in particular is about this: Amazi-Girl and Sal. Sal and Leland. Amazi-Girl (and Sal) and Ryan. Now Billie and Mary.
When it’s right, when it’s wrong, how the authorities and the people around react and what the consequences are.
I was kinda expecting Ruth to pull the trigger on it during her trying to get fired. It’s a two-fer: presented in the right light it makes her all the more fireable, and it throws Mary into the cold, harsh light of day.
I do want to see Mary dealt to but Billie doing it…I’m not so sure, shes so messed up at the moment so her resorting to (apparently) what she was like in High School is not good
Shes still in an incredibly toxic relationship so shes got that to deal with so I’d prefer itif someone else dealt to Mary, probably won’t happen though
just a gentle warning and reminder, Mary: Billie was destroying people on a mental and emotional level and ruining lives long before you got out of the cotton wool realm of home schooling. If you want to make this a fight, you’re fighting a Master who has literally got nothing left to lose.
Lily Allen’s thing is putting statement songs to the tune of 60s-style bubblegum pop. I don’t always like her statements (she had one a few years back that was basically dressed-up slut-shaming) but this one is gold. 🙂
Much as I have a soft spot for CeeLo Green’s song – this one hits the spirit of the cheery “fuck you very much” right on the nail without the creepy sexist Nice Guy vibes of Green’s song.
I hate reading strips like this, becuase I so desperately want to be there…. How fun it would be to argue with Mary, as her face became more and more apoplectic with rage!
Agatha is a great touch. The serious bitterness between these two could seem too sharp and verging on violent. Like physically attacking her. But with Agatha it now has a Buggs Bunny “This means war” feel to it. Billie needs to enlist Carla as a consultant.
As very much as I would like to see Billy get the best of Mary, I would prefer that Mary’s VAST (and amusingly perverse and varied) collection of sex toys and bondage mags comes to light, to kick the wind out of her sails and show her Totally Awe Inspiring levels of hypocrisy. But perhaps I am wrong, her vile behavior is maybe just her frustration with her inability to justify being human. Please correct me if I’m off base.
Mary being a hypocrite despite being true in the walkyverse is actually a twist I don’t want to happen. The problem with Mary isn’t that she’s hypocritical, its that she’s vile and so are the ideals she clings to. If she’s proven to be a hypocrite it makes it seem like its not her ideas that are wrong, but her inability to fully embody them.
Same. I always dislike it in fiction. I mean it happens in real life sometimes but far less than people think. (I despise how every time some homophobic preacher goes off the accusations of him really being ‘gay’ go off… it probably happens in like 1 out of very 100 homophobic preacher: you just hear of the so called ‘hypocrites’ more often because people find it funny. )
If bondage is that “dark secret” that Mary is harboring, then, A, I’m annoyed that bondage might be painted in broad brushstrokes as deviant, unknown, and based on abuse and lack of consent, WHICH IT IS NOT when practiced correctly; and B, the horrifying fear that Mary might utilize BDSM elements for their improper use to punish/sexually assault people in horrifyingly base ways. This is all speculation, but I’ll be truly horrified if I’m correct.
It’s not really about bondage being bad but Mary being a hypocrite by condemning that way of life and yet being a part of it. Pretty much the same kind of hypocrisy as the one coming from gay-bashing politicians who are later revealed to be gay themselves.
I fell it would still be kink-shaming. When the only representation a comic has of a minoritary and discriminated against thing is negative, it’s a discriminatory comic.
Aren’t AG and Danny into it though, or is my info about the Slipshines wrong? (I’ve only got second hand info, as I can’t justify buying the subscription at this point).
Welp in any case, it’s not really part of the comic. (And from what I’ve heard, it’s not an accurate representation of bondage since it’s not “safe”. Then again, I didn’t buy it myself so I don’t really know.)
I know that’s an old comic, but I wanted to say that it says a lot that Mary just called prayer “stupid”. It really shows it’s not even about Christianity so much as her own self-aggrandizement.
Hmmm, it seems Billie was in the middle of talking to Agatha as Mary walked by: so is Agatha asking questions about Ruth? I think she and Billie have interacted before if only off screen when Billie tried her hand at solving problems Ruth wasn’t getting to before they were together in any case.
After all, this was *really* about Mary trying to convince herself she isn’t a nobody’s nobody.
She tries to convince herself she’s some sort of moral center in her dorm floor. Not only do other Christians not even care what she thinks, she practically confesses to being a conniving coward to something her precious accusations were barely an additional nail in Ruth’s coffin of alcoholic breakdown.
Billie, on the other hand, always had enough clout to go with every awful thing she did to herself, others, and the integrity of the human species. Rich parents, always a girl gone wild at parties and on the cheerleading squad, her rep as an alcoholic even made it to the university. Poison, yes, but A) it was brazen enough to make people care one way or another, and B) She’s come to terms with her shittiness, rather than clinging to heckling to avoid doing so. She’s even learned to care about someone other than herself all the time.
You don’t use a one-time favor the mayor owes to squash a single cockroach. Forget murder, assault, or anything that would validate Mary as a victim. Not necessary. Billie’s a former professional bully, and Mary forgets just how much she’s unknowingly given Billie to work with. Even now, she has more friends *and* social credibility than Mary, whom caves easily to clever retaliations, as Carla knew.
Sorry Mary, but as things are, Billie can tread how she pleases.
I’m sorry. I always try to be a gentleman, but Mary seems to be one of those rare people who truly deserves a Pedibus Rectal Incursion! It’s Latin. Look it up…
As much as I hate to admit it, Mary is truly someone to whom much mischief should occur.
Wow, did Mary really make a suicide joke to said suicidal person’s lover right there? That’s….that’s not bad. It’s not mean, it’s not even cruel – it’s just unconscionable. Mary being a hardcore Christian is the ultimate irony, because in order to hit that level of base sociopathy, you’d have to be devoid of a soul.
Also, what is Billie talking about? I’m trying to think back and, while ever the asshole, I don’t recall Mary breaking any rules. Was it the transphobic comment to Carla? Carla had her revenge, but I imagine campus has their own rules on hate speech.
Transphobic behavior, damaging Carla’s stuff, blackmail, probably a bunch of other stuff that’s not on-panel because it’s lesser/to non-primary characters.
I know it’s a few days late (busy earning that money stuff), but a few wanted modified versions of Joyce’s cunning smile? Well, got a couple done, 2nd used a Joyce-Triangle Smile which looks a bit evil, but the 1st I made, using a smile I got off a Becky pic, well, didn’t turn out…right…
OK, don’t know how, but this somehow ended up on YESTERDAY’s comic, when I’m certain I wrote it on TODAY’s comic. Gonna see if I can copy & paste it to today’s. Hopefully it’ll work…
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“WOW, GOT IT IN ONE! I am helping!”
‘Cause I’m a blond, B-L… I don’t know
‘Cause I’m a blond, yeah yeah yeah
I think the ideal guy for me, is Sperman …with a lobotomy, cause I’ma Blonde.
Is that a typo… Or the most inappropriate-for-children superhero ever?
+2
Don’t care, she’s hot!
Her last name must be “Christie.”
It’s like everyone’s playing checkers, but Agatha is playing chess!
Yeah, she’s a genius, I would’ve guessed Conquest
Conquest only plays Risk. Her father raised her on it, calls it “practice”.
Risk? Pah. Galasso sneers at you for your pathetic choice.
Galasso would only play Henry Kissinger’s favourite board game: Diplomacy.
It can’t top that.
He also rushes Zerglings in StarCraft.
Galasso would enjoy Risk Legacy, though. A simulation of an entirely new world to conquer, with leadership of every faction changing according to maneuvering.
Sadly, when asked about it a couple of decades ago, Kissinger had not heard of the game.
Too bad, the thought of Henry K. trying to find the best strategy to move armies into Russia amuses me to no end.
He’d be one of those douchebags who just holds onto Australia from the beginning of the game and then turtles.
(Note : I am one of those douchebags who holds onto Australia from the beginning of the game and then turtles.)
You’re probably right, but I was referring to the “Diplomacy was Henry Kissinger’s favorite game” trope, which wasn’t true, much as we’d all like it to be.
(It’s strictly Europe, so no Australia to invade.)
Galasso is a master at Civilization. Even post-democracy Gandhi is afraid of him.
Speaking of Conquest, she might be in line for a promotion. The real life restaurant that Galasso conquered is getting a second location. Seems about right that Galasso’s starts their global conquest the same way.
There’s a Galasso’s Pizza in Frenchtown, NJ. He’s expanding his empire.
Omfg I was not aware that was my randomly selected avatar… I feel very satisfied with that
Guess Australia is safe then.
triple twelve dimensional chess with a side game of sorry going on inside the overarching game of battleship that will determine the outcome of the enormous game of strip twister that we call life
Also: Jenga.
Are the cones a metaphor? Well, yes and no.
You win the internet. I’m borrowing this metaphor, if I may
“I’m just helping the readers out!”
“…What readers?”
In panels 4 and 6 she does appear to be looking at us.
Headcanon accepted. Any excuse for fourth-wall breaking is a good excuse.
Well, of course YOU would think so.
I have no idea what you mean.
She’s just so excited to get some panel time AND some lines that she’s forgotten not to look into the camera
EIYIIIIGGGGH! PEE-pul!
Rabbittius!
does that mean agatha is the deadpool of this comic?
Or She-Hulk, Ambush Bug, Abed, Spinnerette, any member of the cast of the (sadly ended)Bravoman webcomic, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera!
Deadpool is merely the current tip of the iceberg. (Wait, I think that metaphor means I’m gonna freeze to death…)
Don’t worry, you will come back 70 years later.
Agatha is Squirrel Girl. Or maybe Elan.
I…..
Who the everloving FUCK raised this child?
Fundies.
Willis said that her parents were probably very nice and she’d just learned all the wrong lessons at church. If so, I pity them. No ‘probably very nice’ people deserve to have a daughter like THAT.
I know. Mike at least is a professional about it.
A professional asshole is still better than amateur hour with Mary.
I always figured Mike was the opposite of his parents.
Wheras he’s an asshole, but cares pretty strongly about those he chooses to accept, his parents seem welcoming and happy to everyone but use forced civility to make you feel uncomfortable in staying anywhere near them.
This might be me irl. My parents were perfectly nice, friendly people and out of some imagined form of spite I grew up to be an jackass instead. I only let down the assholery for the people I’ve chosen to be my friends, and I’ll stand by them to the death. I try to be an equal-opportunity jackass though, I will literally never understand how people ever actually get to be like Mary. Fuck that.
So, like, Mike if he wasn’t a comic character.
I get that feeling that, even if she had been raised without any religious influence in her life, Mary would have still found something to be a self-rightous asshole about.
She was spawned fully formed when a barrel of toxic waste rolled off a truck and landed in a pile of discarded Chick Tracts.
Soowooo, mutagen + Chick Tracts = Mary.
Most unsatisfying Kraang experiment result ever.
Do we know she’s not Chick reincarnated?
He is dead now…
Her art style probably won’t lend lend itself to racist caricatures, but I’m sure she can adapt
First bit of good news in the US I’ve heard in a while.
Since DoA always takes place right now, forever, it’s about 18 years too early for that.
But just wait about 18 years, and we’ll be golden!
So, by the end of the semester?
Agatha’s useful to have around! ^_^
Yep, somebody has to point out the obvious.
Captain Obvious, WE NEED YOU!!
Think he is still on set shooting a commercial.
suddenly, the roof collapses only on mary, and walky steals her sneakers for himself
And the everyone lived happily ever after. The end.
How about an Oz retelling with Joyce as Dorothy, Walky as the Scarecrow, Mike as the Tin Man, and Danny as the Lion?
Kinda hard not to have Dorothy play Dorothy, isn’t it? I think she’s more Glinda.
You think Dorothy is more Good Witch of the North, than Joyce? Mike as Tin Man? Hmm, maybe Ethan instead. I see Mike as the Flying Monkeys (like how one guy played all the Oompa Loompas in the Johnny Depp version of Willy Wonka)
Leslie would make a pretty good Good Witch, too.
I think they fit. Walky is “brainless”, goofy and immature and currently struggling with class. Mike is “heartless”, a deadpan asshole. Ethan is a scaredy cat, big but nervous.
The difference is that the Tin-Man WANTS an heart. Mike, he does not.
So then sarah should be the tin-person?
The Tin-Batswoman! It fits perfectly!
That Agatha is one smart cookie.
Mary, Mary–Why Ya Buggin’?
Dammit! Where’s the +1 button?!
Ha. She is so cute, that Agatha.
Like, literally.
Agatha: Did I help? I like helping.
Oooooh, this is gonna be GOOD. Give ‘er hell, Billie.
Hell, panel three makes me want to do it myself…in some zany comic-entering adventure, I guess.
She not only aggressively feels no remorse, but got angry at the mere idea that she should feel guilty.
It makes me want to go out and commit CRIMES
So what I’m hearing is I have a partner in zany and vengeful comic adventuring
I know whether I can get a steady supply of dirty diapers if you can find one of those big slingshots for water balloons
I like your thinking. It’s especially fitting cause Mary’s full of shit.
I WILL BE YOUR SLINGSHOT
Slingbutt
I am honestly with Train Moblin. Can we drop a house on her? like, skip to december and drop one of those decorative christmas houses on her?
Mary Rules Christmas! Only the truly good children get toys. The sinful children … don’t ask. Just … don’t
Witch of the East style!
What does Billie have on Mary?
Nothing … yet.
Mary’s blatant bigotry towards Carla, for starters. Her attempts to blackmail Ruth is another.
Lockpicking skills and a vague friendship with someone who smokes marijuana and a hatred of Mary to equal her own.
Mary tried to blackmail Ruth. Blackmail is a crime.
By the way, we’re now at strip 1955.
Strip 2000 will be on December 13.
I guess us commenters aren’t ready for this strip yet… but our kids are gonna love it.
That calls for a celebration.
December 12th: Party like it’s 1999
I see what you did there…
I’ll get the truck, you go get the aliens.
Empathy, Mary. Get some.
She has enough to know how and when to hurt…
She has some, everyone is just unworthy of it in her eyes.
We have actually seen that she can be ALMOST sociable with people with the same beliefs as herself but if you swing too far into tolerance e.g. letting those damn atheists be your friends then Hell mend you.
Sociable isn’t empathetic.
Bob Barker: Correct, Agatha! Tell her what she won, Johnny!
Ruth did get exactly what she deserved: a caring hospital staff and the help she needed.
… which may well be sending her back to an unsafe and abusive home enviornment- or to homelessness if that home won’t take her back.
Or, if Ruth can bring herself to be honest about her situation, can get her back onto a safe track in college and a room in the dorm, whether or not she remains an RA.
Billie notably has a vested interest in believing this will turn out horrific.
Agatha is a darling, omg
ok, I can’t remember what I missed … but Billie has something on Mary … might be time to start over at the beginning again!
Her massively transphobic comments.
Is that it? I mean, obviously that’s enough, that shit’s terrible, but I could have sworn that Billie found out something else hypocritical that Mary was doing… but those may just be memories of Roomies! sneaking in.
I feel like outing Mary out for those would also mean outing Carla. And as mad as Bille is towards Carla, I don’t think she would be THAT hypocritical just to bring Mary down.
There is absolutely no sign that Carla isn’t already out.
Joyce is unaware of it, at the very least. And we’re not sure how many people Carla has actually told – Sal at the very least. Ruth knows because she’s RA, and Billie via Ruth. Mary may have found out through her snooping.
Of course, Carla’s declaration of a penis on her whiteboard being a hate crime may indicate either that she’s clearly out, or that she’s just angry. But we don’t have enough information to assume she’s out.
Not only did she yell about it being a hate crime in front of everyone, but Sal was not told by Carla. Carla hinted at it (in a way that implied that it was public knowledge, or at the very least an open secret of the ‘don’t tell but don’t hide it either’ variety), but Sal already knew. Joyce not knowing doesn’t really indicate anything – at the time, she didn’t know what bisexuality was either, and she still called being gay/a lesbian a sin. Carla may not be out to the general public (she didn’t want to risk telling the roller derby team) but Joyce not knowing is hardly a good indicator that Carla isn’t out.
It seems like that’s the case, but I also suspect she doesn’t mind that not being the FIRST thing people learn about her.
Though even if she pulled a Becky and was completely irreversibly out to everyone within earshot, Mary’s transphobic remarks were directed at HER. I don’t think it would be right for Billie to make that into a big public Thing without at least checking with Carla if she’s okay with it.
Though I also don’t think Carla is sufficiently out that Billie shouldn’t confirm that as well
I’m kind of under the impression it’s an open secret sort of deal myself.
Absolutely! Don’t use someone as a cause to champion (and beat a bigot with) without their permission. And if you aren’t 100% on how out someone is, CHECK because outing folks can be super dangerous.
It would not be right, but do remember that Billy is pissed at Carla, and for all her sympathetic qualities, kinda of an asshole overall.
I think it’s not that she didn’t want to risk telling them, but she wasn’t sure if they would accept her because of it. Sal: “You’d do good. You’re tall.” Carla: “There’s a reason for that.” Sal: “Yeah, they wouldn’t care.” Or something like that.
Yes, but she used ‘there’s a reason for that’ as a reason not to join the team. Sal assured her they wouldn’t care, but Carla seemed unconvinced (and immediately changed the subject back to Sal).
Well, she could bring it to Chloe. Carla’s certainly out to the campus officials.
Joyce is suuuper sheltered though. Like, to the point that I’d be really surprised if she even knows that trans people exist. I am absolutely certain she’s never knowingly socialized with a trans person.
I think that’s part of why Jocelyne is vacillating so hard on whether or not to come out to Joyce – she thinks Joyce will be good, but (and there’s a big but here) you don’t really know how someone will be on a thing until you’ve seen how they act about it. There are folks I came out to in meatspace on the autism and bi fronts that I forever regret coming out to.
Joyce being unaware doesnt really mean much though.
I think it’s fair to say she is out. But she doesn’t seem like the type to bring it up unless asked.
i thought it was the whole blackmail thing
that was pretty big.
That’s my impression too. Considering Carla already got her revenge, the matter between them is settled.
Or so she thinks. Mary… probably feels differently.
Funny thing, the information is already out there, beyond either Billie’s or Mary’s control. It will all probably come out during Ruth’s treatment and the determination of her status.
Also, what exactly does Mary think she has that she can threaten Billie with?
She probably thinks she’s going to antagonize Billie into physically attacking her, at which point she’ll run crying to the ResLife office about a physical attack and insist Billie be removed from the dorm.
If there was ever a time for billie to be cunning now is the time.
As cunning as a fox that has just been appointed Professor of Cunning at IU?
Is that a super old school Dora flair?
[xylophone] Yes. [/xylophone]
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=117
Mary doesn’t know Billie has given up the sauce (and a relapse is always possible). All Mary needs to do is find Billie’s secret stash.
I don’t know Billie has given up the sauce. Pretty sure she hasn’t, in fact.
I think the best dirt Billie has on Mary is “she’s a horrible person and absolutely no one will take her side if they could possibly avoid it”
Can we just get, like, a twenty panel comic of Mary getting her ass kicked? I know this comic isn’t big on super unrealistically convenient endings, but christ.
I’d rather just see her revealed to everyone as the hypocrite she is, like in the old Walkyverse.
I’ll take gratuitous punches over karmic justice any day.
And then, as she walks away screaming about getting revenge she gets eaten by a trapdoor alligator… Although i wouldn’t want the poor alligator to get indigestion…
I saw what you did there.
“YOU’LL SEE, I WILL HAVE MY RE- hey, what are all these Tums wrappers doing he-?”
*nom nom nom*
It’ll be like the Airplane sequence of everyone lining up to kick her ass with different weapons and such. I approve. Willis, make this happen!!!
Agatha=Awsome
It’s cute that Mary thinks she still has any power, here.
You have no power here, Gandalf the Grey!
Saruman! Your staff is broken!
A shame, that. It was blackthorn with a whisker from Smaug inside it. Gonna miss that wand. Maybe Dorothy can loan her the one she uses to play Glinda.
Dorothy plays the Glinda? How did we get from.comparing staffs to musical instruments?
Yea, this thread sorta fell off a clef, didn’t it?
Just thinking that. What can Mary do? Billie can expose Mary’s transphobia without consequence, right?
You’ve made a powerful and dangerous enemy, Mary.
Take a number.
Billy is by far the most dangerous enemy Mary has. She’s enraged, she’s physically dangerous and she feels like she has nothing to lose. If Mary pushes her she could easily end up receiving the kind of beatdown Blaine received from Amber.
The beatdown slowley gets more and more uncomfortable though
We’re talking a Blaine-Amber or Joyce-Ross beatdown, not a Billie-Ruth beatdown.
Yeah, Carla is a determined pacifist. No matter how much you anger her, the worst she’ll do is craft an elaborate contraption to humiliate you.
But Billie? She’s a “problem solver” and as you note, she feels she has nothing to lose. If Mary pushes her luck, she could find herself in a shallow grave in the middle of a forest.
In the Amazon.
But that turns Mary into the victim.
A victim of her own self-righteousness, true. Not a very sympathetic victim.
I don’t expect Billie to get physical unless directly confronted and annoyed. When facing Ruth, she did not use Ruth’s defenseless state to take her revenge, but instead she took a photo (and the booze).
That said, as a former head cheerleader she knows all the ins and outs of highschool power play, and she won’t hesitate to use what she learned there. But I am certain that her comeback will be different from Carla’s, and hurt Mary in some other way.
Not sure if she is out for revenge or simply about to punish Mary.
I warn you not to underestimate my power.
Yes Billy tread carefully. You don’t want what ever you are planning to backfire.
Huh. I guess I can hate Mary more
I fucking know, right?! I didn’t think it was possible.
Mary is a hate singularity
from which no happiness can escape
Here’s hoping that Billie comes from the Sci-Fi school of comic book joy
“if you hit it hard enough, it’ll change”
She’s the hate gift that keeps on giving… so long as what you wanted was more hate.
I think I may not enjoy the Dec 31st strip. Mary looks REALLY happy in the preview image for that strip.
I know, right? “Augh, Mary’s a transphobic homophobic self-righteous blackmailing ass, I am SO glad to see her get CARLA’d, augh she is awful.”
Mary: *Makes light of suicide/depression being real and implies even if Ruth is on the verge of killing herself, she deserves it, which one Ruth’s bullying has been demonstrated to be tied to her depression and two even if a person’s seriously unsalvageable shit NO ONE deserves to have the unending suck pit in their head that is depression of the suicidal variety.*
Me:… Carla’s glorious prank was insufficient. Mary must be hit with a thousand newspapers.
(Like, seriously, this strip pretty well disproves to me the recurring “Mary’s wristbands hide self-harm scars” theory because that “everyone knows Ruth will be fine” says to me she thinks people who attempt suicide are just faking it for sympathy or attention. Because Mary’s already indicated she thinks things like being LGBT+ are choices done to “get people to like you” and we’ve seen from Joyce’s “Godpurtunity” thing the general sects they grew up in don’t believe mental illness is a real medical condition, I guarantee you she’s viewing this through that same awful lens.
Holy FUCK do I hate Mary.)
…wait, what does Billie have on Mary, again?
Well, there was the whole “blackmailing the RA in order to get away with verbally abusing other students” thing. That was some pretty severe shit, especially if it’s brought to light that said blackmail is part of the reason why Ruth’s currently in the hospital for suicidal ideation.
That. Not to mention I’m gonna guess that Miss Pudding Cup would love to know about the student who harassed her “formerly top RA” to the point where she completely collapsed and wanted to kill herself.
Thing is, Mary’s not exactly ashamed of that. And how do you “out” Mary without doing more damage to _her_ intended victims?
That really isn’t something that is being risked by going to Ruth’s boss. As head of the RA’s, she already knew about Carla from Day 1 and she now knows about Billie and Ruth.
And whatever else Mary tries to reveal about Billie & Ruth (Ruth’s violence, the alcohol, if that’s not known yet), gets seriously discredited by her blackmailing Ruth.
Especially since Ruth already told Chloe about one of the instances of violence/threats that Mary would have on her (ie slapping a dick onto Mary’s face in the Whiteboard Ding-Dong Bandit storyline).
Oh, it’s not a matter of shame. It’s a matter of the official repercussions she’s gonna face for that. Like at minimum? Probably being moved to a different dorm and like, mandatory diversity classes or something. At maximum? Not only could she be expelled for this shit, she could face criminal charges. Blackmail’s a crime, plus they can make a decent case it’s a homophobic hate crime which will be treated even more seriously, and the fact that it can directly be tied to Ruth’s suicidal ideation? Ideation which, had it gone on any longer, would most likely have led to an attempt or actual permanent damage from the catatonia she was in keeping her from doing even basic self-care?
Yeah. Mary could get into some BIG damn trouble there if the lawyers get involved. Which isn’t impossible, since Carla’s involved in this – sure, she thinks she’s square and doesn’t trust authority figures, but she’s also VERY RICH and I am certain her parents have VERY GOOD lawyers. Either the university could preemptively take action against Mary because they don’t want to be the ones sued, or if Carla tells her parents about this whole incident (like with the intention of getting their help to sponsor Ruth so she can stay on campus or the like) they might decide to do something about the blackmailing bigot who lives in their daughter’s hall and nearly drove their daughter’s new friend to suicide. Unlikely, since I don’t think Ruth or Carla themselves would want to press charges, but very much not out of the realm of possibility.
More likely however, the university would want it swept under the table and kept quite, so no punishment and at most moved to a different dorm to separate her from the others. At most.
Colleges don’t have an exemplary track record of handling LGBTQ discrimination. Getting better, maybe.
The only real thing in this case is that Carla has rich and influential connections. That could make a difference. The privilege of wealth can do a lot to mitigate other forms of discrimination.
Yeah, I think it’s most likely she’ll be moved to a different dorm (and that only if the blackmail comes out and the rest of the hall protests her being there loudly enough,) but Carla’s got leverage that might cause the university to actually do something about it. And if the rest of the hall finds out, it doesn’t have to be the authorities themselves doing anything. For instance, any legal student (such as, say, Sarah) could inform her about how she could face jail time for what she did and Mary strikes me as just enough of a coward in the face of actual consequences to her actions that the threat might be enough.
There’s also losing out on what politeness allows her to keep being a remotely effective jackass in the halls. Though in fairness, I’m not sure Billie can do more there, given that Rachel already ID’d it as blackmail, well… folks are going to be ignoring her harder. And being self righteous is no fun if people aren’t actually paying you any mind.
Yeah, I think Mary was already in for, minimum, the first week of her impending Shunning without whatever Billie’s about to do.
Nice catch about Rachel, I forgot that, though since Mary was only talking about potentially making an “opportunity” out of this or whatever I don’t think they know for a fact that Ruth already WAS blackmailed by Mary, just that Mary planned on trying it. Which is enough they probably all put those pieces together already anyway, but still. Always helpful to have confirmation before you call the RM again, and the fact that it triggered her last descent into catatonia will be new and probably meriting a heretofore undiscovered level of Shun.
Wasn’t limited to verbal harassment; she also damaged Carla’s new skates with the glue.
Go GET her ass Billie.
I don’t think Mary knows what she just did, and is about to find out.
Billie doesn’t have a job to lose to her.
Mary can’t prove that Billie and Ruth were both in Ruth’s room, and the few that knew are very unlikely to side with Mary.
Mary can’t use Billie’s drinking against her as it’s all out in the open and Billie’s (supposedly) in therapy for her problems.
Billie however has Mary’s little incidents with the verbal assaults by Mary on Carla, and the physical assaults with the glue on the carpet trap set for Carla. And I think Carla would be willing to side with Billie on any evidence needed.
Mary simply does not understand that she is an important and respected person on the dorm floor – in her own eyes only.
Yes, keep trying to convince yourself that everyone actually knows you’re right, Mary.
Yeah, that’s a nasty little touch. Even after all that, she’s convinced that she’s the voice of the majority, that she speaks for all and her petty obsessions about a twisted morality is what everyone in their dark heart knows to be true.
It’s the nasty edge of that particular flavor of right-wing Christianity. In their head, there’s no atheists and/or queer folk and/or Christians who aren’t assholes. Everyone else is just a liar who makes up these roles to make the poor right-wing Christian look bad even though they know just as well as everyone that what they say is true.
It’s the type of religion seen on Chick Tracts. No one is just living their life, minding their own business if they are not in the tribe, they’re actively trying to shit on people like Mary with their “ways of life” in order to shake their faiths. Because to folks like Mary, they are the only people who matter and everyone else is a pawn piece of God or Satan to battle over their soul.
Carolin Emcke – who just got a Peace Prize of the German Book Trade book – said in her acceptance speech that the people who want everyone to be like them are the danger to open and democratic society. No matter, if their rules to enforce comes from religious or other sources. They are egged on by the hate mongerers who create false dichotomies.
It was a really powerful speech and and actually her presentation makes it more even powerful than the written one.
I have’nt found an English transcript for her speech. This is the best article I found: http://www.dw.com/en/human-rights-not-a-zero-sum-game-says-award-winning-journalist/a-36126518
Read “the” instead of “a” and ignore “book” after “Trade”
in the -…-
Editing sentences is this small window alway goes wrong…
I actually like Elphaba.
It begins….
agatha is a kind girl and i hope she is gay and will date me
I don’t think it’s confirmed one way or another, but I strongly suspect she’s bi given that she was Roz’s “analogue” at McAwesome’s in Shortpacked! And Ethan’s analogue was also gay.
She was Robin’s analogue, not Roz’s.
Dang it, meant to say Robin there too. Thanks for the correction.
“Tread carefully Billy” says the person who literally just failed to tread carefully with the emotionally unstable girl you already crossed who has all the dirt she needs to mess up your life.
Mary, there’s obliviousness, ignorance, and bigotry, and then there’s just bad decision making and threat assessment skills.
She’d be absolutely terrifying if it wasn’t for how often she presses her luck. Which is good. She doesn’t need to perfect her particular brand of nasty passive-aggressive hostility.
Also, it means she gets things like the glorious and ridiculous vengeance of Carla. Or the fact that if she wasn’t on the entire dorm’s shit list before Sunday afternoon, suggesting they blackmail a suicidal woman got her firmly on top of the list. (And when they find out she was blackmailing Ruth until she reached that point and STILL WANTED TO BLACKMAIL HER… that’s one of those things even Joyce at the beginning of the strip would find overwhelmingly horrible, and current Joyce has a weekend’s worth of frustration at the church and righteous fury built up. Oh how I hope she finds out about that one.)
Oh god Mary! No… just no. Nobody deserves what Ruth is going through and you have no clue rather she will be fine or not. You are a gossip, enjoy hurting others, like to boast, act bigoted to those who are LGBTQ+ and any other religion other than your own specific type of Christianity, blackmailed Ruth to try and get your way, tried to convince the others to blackmail a woman who was suicidal because getting what you want is more important than all else, and you never show any remorse for anything you do. How are you any better than Ruth? At least Ruth protects others in need, felt guilty when she messed up, and tried to do better which objectively makes her better than you. So go get help of some kind and get some god damn empathy.
PS: Add about 30 or 40 years on Mary, give her the ability to fake kindness and sweetness when it suits her, and make her an even bigger bible thumper (to the point you think she probably must pray before and after sex) and you have a woman who lives up the road from me.
You’re thinking of a bible humper.
*basks in witticisms, unaware of the anti-pun glares coming my way from all directions*
CONTENT WARNING: Twisted views towards suicide and identity
Sadly in her head, death is only too good for those who have “sinned” by being queer or for being “heathen”. It’s the same headspace as Toedad, just not with the same direct view towards bringing that punishment into place.
But if the heathen does it themselves… well… I suppose that was just God’s will.
I’ve sadly known too many people like this who would never ever kill a queer person, but would gladly create the situation where a queer person felt they had no option but death and then wash their hands afterwards while happily gloating about how “unhappy” that “lifestyle” is.
Ugh, sorry you actually have to deal with people like that…
I’m pretty lucky, I guess, that throughout the twelve+ years in which I attended church with my parents there was never any talk of homosexuality and the like. Well, at least to the best of my recollection, considering I was a baby for the first couple of those years and never quite payed attention for most of ’em.
I’m lucky, not because that kind of thing would have angered me (nowadays, eesh, things would get ugly if I had to sit through a “gays burn in hell” sermon), but because I’m worried that I actually would have believed that utter garbage as a kid.
Considering you’re sitting here typing about it, I’m assuming you handle that kind of nonsense better than I do. I have no patience for (read: I become extremely and visibly angry when dealing with) idiots and bigots, and she sounds like she’s both.
Ironically enough, not wanting to give those bastards the satisfaction of succeeding is definitely at least 90% of why I’m still here. The other 10% is the happy pills that keep me from ever being in that space again.
What kept me going through high school was spite. Pure and unadulterated “I will not give you fuckers the satisfaction of seeing me die.” spite.
See also: Why I think spite is an under-rated human emotion and why I wish we wouldn’t demonize it so much. Spite is neither good nor evil – it’s what you do with your spite that’s good or evil. Spite used to power yourself into living, or into growing into a better person than your parents, or what have you? That’s good, and I don’t give a fuck if it’s spite that’s the source of it.
Hell, arguably, Joyce’s “Becky is family and anyone who has a problem with that should come to me. I’ll fight them. I will.” is spite. She was as much driven by spite for Toedad and those who think like him as she was driven by concern for Becky – and nobody argues with a straight face that Joyce standing up for Becky was not a good thing to do.
The biggest blessing in my life, next to finding my Mate, is getting the happy pills That Work! The doctor who told me we could just stop the ideation without them was fully crap.
… Wait, ideation is a thing you can actually make stop and not just manage with like mindfulness and shit?
Fuck, maybe I should give the MH system another go.
(Asshole therapist who victim-blamed me for being a victim of childhood sexual assault and tried to convince me that my CSA was a “positive learning experience” that taught me “not to be so overly trusting” also was all well some people just have intrusive thoughts of suicidal ideation all the time and as long as you’re not acting on it, it’s probably not a big deal. Trufax: One of the kids I went to HS with – one of the few who was not a bullying little shit – had bipolar and the school therapist refused to refer him to a psychiatrist so he dealt with untreated bipolar for 6 years after it first manifested and wound up hospitalized for 4 months because she insisted he just wasn’t trying hard enough at her behaviorism approach. See also: She is why I’m so reluctant to give MH system a shot again. But fuck if I could get it to stop and not spend a good chunk of the day trying to get the ideation out of my head… that’d be too amazing for words because I am not seriously suicidal but it gets fucking tiring fighting intrusive thought impulses of it all the time, you know?)
OMG! That made me tear-up, just reading it once. (Respectful offer of sympathy). Doc who Helped, the second one, put me on one that worked, totally, then tapered me off that while tapering me onto one that worked even better. 1st med stopped intrusive suicidal thoughts in three weeks, and stopped ALL plotting and planning within five weeks. The 2nd med elevated the mood to, if not cheerful, at least happy enough to get on with my life under my own power, (i.e. Not needing others’ urging to get up and put in a day’s work). Meds are better then they were in the 50s, 60s, 70s. These are not my mother’s meds! They worked for me.
See, cheerful and energetic is not a thing I have trouble with. Mine is more like what I see described by folks with obsessive and anxiety type disorders. I’m just bopping along minding my own business when something triggers it and then it’s just like, “What the fuck, brain?!” and it’s hard to get my head out of it unless I do a thing to distract myself or refocus myself.
(being purposefully vague here so as to avoid getting triggery for people)
But like, I’m already fairly cheerful and happy. It’s just my brain likes to play self-injury impulses and goreporn at me at random intervals. Which is really tiring to deal with. But other than that my life is pretty awesome… IDK hard to describe but yeah if I could, like, NOT lose an hour or two a day to practicing mindfulness to get my brain off having an impulse to hurt myself (and it kind of also plays in with my gender dysphoria – hard to tease out what’s my brain being an asshole and what’s cause by the dysphoria at times) or having a goreporn thought stuck in my head? That’d be fucking awesome. Really fucking awesome. Honestly I thought it was just something I have to deal with b/c that’s what the shitty therapist I had in HS convinced me of. So. yeah.
Is: Here are the links to the OCD articles I mentioned below. I’m not sure how long it will take to be approved, but I’m linking them anyway in the hopes that they help you in some small way to at least know you’re not alone in your battle against your own brain.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-things-no-one-tells-you-about-having-ocd/
http://www.cracked.com/article_21834_5-realities-life-when-your-brain-wants-you-to-murder.html
Omg! That asshole!
Also, have you looked into OCD? The thoughts popping in your head with varying strengths of feeling like you have to fight to make them go away is classic OCD bullshit. There’s other things, but that’s part of it (believe it or not, Cracked did two personal experience articles that explain OCD experiences better than I’ve ever seeing in media). It helped me a lot after I got diagnosed with it and got the kind of help I actually needed treating both the major depression and the OCD.
I haven’t but I have a few friends with OCD who pretty much re the only ones who get it so maybe I dunno.
Also thanks for hearing suicidal instrusive thought and not being all OMG go to the hospital cuz like idk hard to explain but I would not actually my brain is just an asshole and very few people get that difference. (This is also why I do not taĺk about it much in meatspace because ppl tend to freak out when I do :/)
*Warning. Graphic details
Before I found the right med and therapy, every time I seen a knife my brain would get on this broken record about grabbing the knife and slitting my carotid and femoral arteries. It was like my brain was some kind of demented twisted version of a toddler screaming random shit and having a tantrum and I was the exhausted adult trying to tell it no, stop, and hush. The sad part is that suicidal ideations can eventually chip away your resolve, but nobody wants to admit they have it and need help because they might be seen as “crazy” or get doped up or put in a psychiatric hospital, so it’s put off until one day it is so bad that help is not optional. I nearly waited too late myself. I wish more people talked about it. Maybe lives would be saved (and by lives I mean both those who take their lives and those who have their days/lives ruined by ideations).
Toddler screaming random shit to my tired adult is a very good description.
Your knife thoughts are pretty similar in spirit if not in content to what goes on in my head. Sorry you have to deal with it too.
Like I said, a good therapy and med combo after getting a proper diagnosis has done wonders for me. It took time though. Years of therapy and lots of trial and error on meds, therapists, and techniques. Now it’s rare for me to have it happen and the screaming toddler is more like a whiny one even when it does happen. I’m not saying what I did will work for you, but I sure as hell hope so because I remember how it was for years and boy did it suck!
Trying to explain it to people was a rodeo. My brain randomly tells me to hurt myself but I don’t want to so I have to try and get the thoughts out of my head led them usually to thinking “Oh my god you’re gonna kill yourself!”, “Oh my god you’re hearing voices!”, or just dismissive so I clammed up about it for far too long while everybody thought I was fine. The ones that understand usually have dealt with it personally, are professionals, went to a class that covered it, or read an article or something on it. People can surprise you in good ways sometimes though and help and understanding can end up coming from the most oddest of places.
Here here! Being a good person as an example of how we aren’t evil or some bs is the best way to change minds and having the strength to push forward through the bigotry makes you stronger than they could ever hope to be. And thank unicorn for medication! They cut off the lowest range of our emotions without destroying the rest. I’m on Paxil and it just makes me feel… normal. Depression is a given after a nightmare childhood topped off with chronic pain and OCD (which is so badly misunderstood by the general populous that it’s exhausting), but my med helps keep me from getting to the lowest low where the emotional pain is so bad that I start thinking seriously about suicide. It may not be easy to find the right med, but once you do it’s a real life saver. 🙂
Oh, yes, this! Yes.
Er, triggery stuff to follow.
OCD runs in the family like a slow sweet river of anxiety. When it gets out of hand, .. I … Do stuff. Same stuff my mom used to do. The med I’m on helps with that -mostly. Doc gave me something tiny, yellow, works way too well, and I don’t ever take it. It is not the one of them that works for me. The first one, the awesome one, helped majorly with the OCD. But,.. For some males …er, .. Side effects, so then the switch to a better med for me. And coping strategies for the OCD triggers, which pretty much give me a normal looking life from the outside, and pretty much no panic on the inside- either. You can tell because I can go months with no blood on my hands. *grin*
*hugs*
Glad you found something that helped. Do you have a pet like a dog or cat? They really help me with anxiety and stress and when the OCD flares up, I can focus on giving them attention and/or care. There’s also no shame in going for a walk or finding a place to rock which helps burn up some of that nervous energy 🙂
… You sound like you quite possibly attended the same (or a very similar) high school to the one I attended. When kids weren’t threatening corrective rape, they were doing their level best to make me think that death was my only way out. :\
*sympathy via light contact* if you’d like.
*appropriate gesture of support* in return.
Unfortunately, I know about this already due to living in a small southern town in the US. The woman I compared to Mary believes that homosexuality is just the devil twisting us and requires intestinal fortitude to not fall into temptation like an alcoholic or gambler. She also told me after I miscarried (the one and only time I’ve been able to get pregnant) that it was my body telling me that my boyfriend didn’t love me because no man who loves and respects a woman would sleep with her outside of wedlock.
I have severe hemiplegic migraines and hypothyroidism and have been told by more than one person that I needed to toss my meds and let god heal me. I went to a fertility clinic where the doctor and staff were very nice until they found out I didn’t go to church because I was an atheist. They literally walked out leaving me crying after telling me I was anovulatory (sp?) and needed expensive treatment not covered by my insurance to get pregnant. On the way out, they handed me pamphlets on meds and sperm donors and said “You can go now” without even a fake smile.
People are idiots especially the over religious ones. It’s part of the reason I can’t be as open about being an atheist polysexual as Becky is with being a lesbian even though I’d like to be.
Or my mother.
And change her gender and give her too much money for her own good, and you get something close to Trump.
Except Trump only pretends to be Christian and badly at that. He can’t even think of one bible verse off the top of his head, when he was saying a written bible quote he called it two Corinthians, and up until he was running for president he listed his book (which he didn’t write) as his favorite book. I have yet to figure out why hard core Christians want to vote for him even though out of the two, Hillary is the proven Christian who just happens to be in blue. Basically they would vote for a cabbage if it was dressed in red.
Because for a large strain of right wing Christians in the US, Christianity is about hating the right people. Trump hates the right people, so he’s in.
Of course Ruth deserves what she’s getting: Therapy and support.
And Mary 30 years down the road => Carol.
Been saving this one for the next time Mary and Bully went head to head.~
*tunes up guitar, then starts to play Lilly Allen*
Look inside…
Look inside your tiny mind, then look a bit harder
Coz we’re so uninspired, so sick and tired…
Of all the hatred you harbor
So you say…
It’s not okay to be gay…
Well I think you’re just evil.
You’re just some racist who can’t tie her laces.
Your point of view is medieval, ooooh
F**k you!~
F**k you very very muuuuch!~
Coz we hate what you do…
And we hate your whole crew!
So please don’t stay in tooouch!
F**k you!~
F**k you very muuuuch!
Coz your words don’t translate, and it’s getting quite late…
So please don’t stay in toooouch!~
Anybody wanna take the second verse? 😀
*Billy and Mary. One of these girls is a bully, and it’s not the brunette with glasses…
I think they both qualify, unless Billie’s fully outgrown those habits already.
Not that that changes which of the two I’d side with in the least.
The worst thing she’s done is try to ignore and distance herself from Walky, and you could argue that has more to do with her trying to distance herself from anybody or anything that would remind her of the DUI that ruined her
Billie seems to have been a bully back in high school. At least hanging out with the ones who stuffed Walky into lockers.
She’s stopped though, and hasn’t done anything to torment or manipulate anyone since she arrived. She hasn’t been a plaster saint, buts she’s far from being a nasty boingo like Mary has been.
Do you get,
Do you get a little kick out of
Being small minded?
You want to be like Toefather
It’s moral high ground you’re after
Well that’s not how you find it.
Do you…
Do you really enjoy living a life that’s so hateful?
Cause there’s a whole where your soul should be
You’re losing control of it…
And its really distasteful, oooh…
Re: your last paragraph, will saying “oh god, oh god” in the middle cover it?
…that was definitely supposed to be a reply.
FUCK YOU, MARY.
Jesus fucking christ, FUCK YOU.
Yes.
Mary, FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOUR FUCK TO THE ENTH DEGREE.
Disgusting. Saying that Ruth’s suicidal thoughts and actions and the result of which are “getting what she deserves” makes Mary the lowest of the low. I want her out of the strip, even though that’s not realistic.
Mary is literally insane, isn’t she. Like, Trump-crazy, where she doesn’t grasp that other people have thoughts and are not just objects that inexplicably do things that may be convenient or inconvenient to her.
No no no. She is completely sane. This is merely a run-of-the-mill asshole who was taught to believe absolutely horrible things, and bought into all of it because it justifies being horrible to people.
I see a distinction between, say, butthole dad, who, as Amazi-Girl points out, is not crazy, just an incredible asshole, who was taught to believe absolutely horrible things, and because of that does terrible things to people he professes to love, but who at least seemed able to grasp that there were people – evil, wrong, and sinful people, of course, but still – who had other opinions, and Mary, who in this strip, and more in some other recent appearances, seems literally unable to understand that other people, even the very people she’s tormenting because she thinks they’re evil abominations, could possibly disagree with her.
(Whew, that sentence is finally over.)
She’s like a walking Chick tract, except without the bit where the narrator cites a Bible verse and the sinners don’t want to be Elfstar anymore.
What Fart Captor said.
Bigotry is not a mental illness. It’s a cultural institution.
For that matter, it’s really fucking rude to the mentally ill folks here to equate them with Mary and Trump. Your ableism is showing, John.
Normally agree with almost everything you post. BUT according to the Mayo clinic site, severe Narcissism IS a toxic mental disorder, even if he seems to be enjoying it. It is still an illness, and would be better if he sought treatment, (IMAO).
1, Narcissistic personality disorder was removed from the latest DSM because most of what’s exhibited there can be considered bad coping skills and/or parts of other disorders.
2, Armchair psychology is both very stigmatizing and highly unethical – and I repeat what I said about ableism showing. I doubt if people were genuinely concerned about Trump’s mental health and not about “SEE?! HE’S CRAZY! CRAZY IS BAD! WE CAN’T LET HIM BE PREZ!” and making themselves feel superior, the tenor of the discussion around his mental health would be where it is now. Don’t get me wrong: I despise Trump. I think he’s a dictator in the mold of Putin or Mussolini in the making. But it is not okay to speculate on a public figure’s mental health for the purpose of dragging their public image through the dirt. If that’s not in the definition of ableism, it damn well should be as an example. It’s a pretty textbook case and does not do the left-wing side of the argument any favors. Arguments like that are right up there with those arguing that he has a speech disorder and therefore is unfit (as someone with a speech & communication disorder, people who think that makes you unfit for a job involving communication are just plain wrong. In meatspace, I’m the public face of my company because I do very well when I have scripts to work off and when I’m in a comfortable environment or setting – especially when I’m talking instrumentation and test methods because that’s one of my passions.)
A great case against Trump for prez can be made without throwing PwD under the bus. So how about we focus on real and valid reasons why he’d be a disaster as president and not on saying, “Well, I as a person with zero expertise in mental health diagnosis and treatment thinks that he matches this unnuanced checklist I found on the internet and that means he’s like mentally ill people and therefore would be a bad president!” Which is not what people are literally saying, I admit, but all of the subtext is there. Even if he is mentally ill, his mental illness on its own is not what makes him unfit: His morality (or lack thereof, rather), his greed, his selfishness, his dishonesty, his bullying nature, his inconsistency, his lack of self-control, his lack of discipline, his lack of understanding of global affairs, his lack of understanding of state affairs, his lack of understanding of how law and government work, his policy resemblance to famous dictators of the past, his documented racism, his documented sexism, his documented ableism, his documented homophobia, his documented transphobia, his lack of apparent awareness of basic science, his genuinely terrifying ideas, and his refusal to listen to anyone who has even the barest hint of disagreement with him all are far better reasons to vote no than “I think he might be mentally ill and wooooo mentally ill is scary” and fanning the flames of ableist bigotry in exactly the same way he’s fanned the flames of racist and sexist bigotry throughout his campaign.
… and sorry for the rant – trump scary because mentally ill is a thing I’ve been dealing with from all sides lately so I reacted more strongly than I normally would have.
But my point stands. There are many valid reasons to find Trump terrifying. Why do we have to go with ableist bullshit when we could go with the fact that he is literally taking ideas from Mussolini’s playbook? Or the fact that he apparently can’t deal with a normally-sympathetic woman disagreeing with him without assuming she’s on her period? Or the fact that he enjoys threatening his rivals with imprisonment if he wins?
I could go on here. There is so many things that are based in his actual conduct and not in ableism that could be used to argue against his fitness. Even if he does have a mental illness, I don’t see how it’s relevant to the discussion of whether or not he’d be a good president (there have been several good mentally ill presidents – Abraham Lincoln being one) when his actual conduct is so troubling.
Yeah, “crazy” is neither good nor bad. Unpleasant to have in your head, generally (hey there, intrusive dream that made me actually harm myself! Fuck you brain, stop trying to kill me,) but not a moral alignment or failing.
That lack of willingness to believe other people have thoughts or feelings different from your own? That’s an offshoot of being insulated from other opinions and people in general, and in Trump’s case I genuinely don’t think he’s ever seriously been told “no” in his life. If anything, we as a society ENCOURAGE people like Mary. I mean hell, we’re the only country that treats climate change as a theory and not the objective observations of what we’re living in. Creationism is a fringe thing not just among world religions as a whole but even within Christianity – the Catholic Church as an institution accepts evolution.
No, these people are probably completely neurotypical, the sickness is in a society that says “Well there’s value in both sides” and lets this shit go unchecked, or if it takes issue decides to throw the mentally ill under the bus instead of addressing the actual problem.
She’s high on her certainty that she’s the one who has morality on lockdown.
hmm…
*sips coffee*
I think I’ll just go that way…
Finally, Billie steers her ire towards someone more than deserving of it.
Comic Reactions:
I think that Mary lass is a fine upstanding individual with many sterling positive personality qualities! Singing, smiling, extolling virtues. What’s not to praise? Really, it is only because of rampant anti-white Christian bias that anyone could see something to fault in her gracious holy actions…
*twitch*
FUDGE YOU, MARYYYYYYYYYY!
Panel 1: Holy fucking shit is Mary just the slimiest pile of shit on the planet. Just right back to bullying like it was nothing and doubling down right in front of witnesses expecting the social expectations of politeness to protect her simply because she’s got a smile on her face and what is likely a pleasant lilt to her voice.
And that first line, about being surprised to see her, “considering”. Because of course, in her twisted fucked up head, being outed as queer, as in love with a woman, in a relationship with the RA is supposed to humiliate Billie. Be something she slinks away from the light to avoid how the hall will treat her.
Even though everyone saw that the RA was in trouble, that Billie burst in to comfort her, to keep her alive. Even though everyone likely knows that Mary is in some way responsible for the state Ruth was in or tried to make it worse.
And the disgusting vile cherry is that last line. She feels no shame in nearly killing a person simply because she dared to be queer and stand up for a trans person. In nearly driving someone single-handedly to suicide. And not only does she feel no shame, she’s starting right up trying to make it two for two by doing the little digs she did against Ruth against Billie.
And Billie? Right now? She’s in no state to politely deal with that shit and no reason to do so now that the big secret is out. But the fact that Mary had the gall to try is just… ugh, she’s such a perfect villain at every level it makes my goddamn skin crawl, because I’ve dealt with this type of shit-flinger.
The bully who’ll drive anyone marginalized to suicide with a goddamn song in their heart and who will always exploit the merest position of power in service to that goal. With no fucking shame. Who’ll fuck with your head and mental health and play that dangerous game because if you check out, they can pretend there’s no blood on them.
Fudge you Mary indeed.
She feels no shame in nearly killing a person simply because she dared to be queer and stand up for a trans person. In nearly driving someone single-handedly to suicide.
Mary’s a bully, but she’s not Machiavelli or Moriarty. Her half-assed attempt at blackmail imploded almost immediately and Ruth was in a downward spiral LONG before then.
Mary didn’t make Ruth a drunk, or turn her into an emotional train wreck, or force her to break school policies and sleep with a student under her care. Ruth did that all on her own.
Ruth is a spiteful, bitter, abusive, depressed, self-destructive alcoholic whose vices and bad attitude make everyone around her miserable by association and who has bullied and peer-pressured poor Billie into an unhealthy, co-dependent “relationship”… and it’s about time we all stop making excuses for her for the sake of keeping a sinking ship afloat.
I’m not arguing that Ruth did not have severe depression before Mary ever came along. Nor am I arguing that Ruth doesn’t have many, MANY flaws.
But Mary actively walked in on that depression and actively intended to make that worse, played with Ruth’s suicidal ideation and actively risked her end all because she got on Mary’s shitlist. Because she dared to be queer and in Mary’s eyes, that justifies playing fast and loose with her depression in a terrible way.
And that costs lives. That attitude exists in our real world, that views someone struggling with depression as someone “weak” who it is “fun to play with”. To try and encourage suicide because it is a game or because it’s not real or because the target “deserves” it by whit of being mentally ill or non-normative or whatever excuse you could throw.
It’s a “game” others have tried to play with me, because I’m trans. Because I’m ace. Because I’m open about my struggles with depression. Because I am queer. Because they could smell all that on me before I could. Because in the eyes of their God they would be rewarded for their game. Because it was easier and more justifiable way of “solving a problem”.
It’s something I recognize because I’ve lived through it.
And I especially want to note with your final paragraph three things.
1) No one deserves having their life toyed with like that, their depression intentionally worsened with stress so they believe they are out of options to live their life freely, to have that compounded with blackmail. If Mary was to develop depression and a character I truly love like Carla or Becky were to do what Mary did to Ruth, I would be appalled. Because no one deserves that shit. No one.
2) “Relationship”. Fuck you. It is codependent, yes. It has many aspects of unhealthiness, yes. It began with intense abuse that colors the whole relationship even if they have moved on from that terrible initial phase, yes. But it is a relationship. A dysfunctional one, yes. But a real one. The feelings are real, the love is real, the attraction is real. You can say it’s not a good relationship for them and that both people would be better moving on from it. But you can’t fucking say it’s not a relationship.
3) You genuinely think we’re noting the awful shit Mary pulled because we’re mourning a fucking Ruth/Billie ship? Fuck you.
Not to mention the fact Mary didn’t target Ruth for being a terrible RA – she targeted her for fucking Billie. And she didn’t plan on getting her fired so much as she lashed out with blackmail like a toddler throwing a hissy fit because Ruth called her on her transphobia.
Well, partly. (And I can’t believe I’m kind of defending Mary here.)
She targeted Ruth because Ruth wasn’t the kind of authority she thought Ruth should be – this includes Ruth slapping the penis onto her and not dealing with the white board dingdong bandit fast enough and more generally not keeping the floor righteous and godly enough to suit Mary and letting the queers and weirdos have the run of the place. For not being Mary, essentially.
She targeted Ruth because Ruth had power that she could take and wasn’t using it in a “godly” enough fashion to suit her.
Knowing she was fucking Billie was a means, not the reason. If she’d had something else, she’d have used that.
I doubt she’d actually object to Ruth’s use of violence, as long as it wasn’t directed at her, but at enforcing her standards of “Christian behavior” – including as in her one actual attempt to make Ruth do something other than not report her, dragging the floor into public prayer.
That’s a good point, but the fact we didn’t get to see her plan anything against Ruth before she found out she was bi and the fact she ranted more about that than her lousy RA skills makes it look more like this is (at least a good chunk) about Ruth being bi.
I think it’s subtler. It’s not lousy RA skills certainly. At least not what we see as her lousy RA skills.
It’s about Ruth being bi, but that’s kind of incidental. It’s about Ruth allowing perverted vagrants onto the floor and standing up for and generally not making the floor like the insular little Christian world Mary dreams of. “Defiling the cheerleader” admittedly made it worse, since she was involved herself, rather than just allowing it to go on.
Ahhh, I think I see. Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, Mary wouldn’t mind those lousy RA skills if they were directed at the people she thinks they should be directed at – the aforementioned “perverted vagrants”, the *insert slurs* giving into their carnal urges, even just the girls who aren’t deferring to her as the
patriarchal societyGod-approved moral authority she should obviously and rightfully be. Mary would totally be using those lousy RA skills if she were in that position. Hell, she’d probably be using worse. But since she’d be using them for her righteous and good, godly path, such means are necessary to steer these sinners back on the proper path and/or prevent her soul from being tarnished by their presence.No one deserves having their life toyed with like that, their depression intentionally worsened with stress
Fair point.
It is codependent, yes. It has many aspects of unhealthiness, yes. It began with intense abuse that colors the whole relationship even if they have moved on from that terrible initial phase, yes. But it is a relationship. A dysfunctional one, yes. But a real one. The feelings are real, the love is real, the attraction is real. You can say it’s not a good relationship for them and that both people would be better moving on from it. But you can’t fucking say it’s not a relationship.
Yes, it is a relationship, but it’s not a healthy one, not remotely. Whether the attraction is real or not doesn’t change the fact that most of the relationship has been marred by abuse – emotional abuse, physical abuse, substance abuse, etc – and I can’t imagine there’d be so many people coming out to defend the relationship if it were anyone else putting Billie through that hell.
It’s Billie putting herself through that hell. It’s a screwed up relationship, but it’s not one-sided. Billie’s at least as much of an alcoholic as Ruth and was before they met. The abuse before the relationship was nasty, but from then on it’s been much more mutual co-dependence and violent play.
If this is the same Janet that also thinks Becky should get her shit together and easily just have gotten a job before she’d even managed to acquire her own personal information , then I’ll gladly echo that “fuck you” from Cerberus.
And don’t try and pull a “So I got it wrong with a month or a week, big deal” or anything like that. You were clearly looking for an excuse to put Becky down, and you thought you had it. Of course, when Fart Captor and Bagge and Greenygal came out with some ass-kicking -facts- to the table, you were nowhere to be found. No “Oh, I guess was wrong, my apologies” anywhere. If you’d done that back then, then maybe I could’ve bought it now.
Oh, and is it the very same Janet that somehow made Carla an equivalent feudalist to Mary? Why yes, I believe that it is! At least you responded one time to Cerberus back then, though after Cerberus gave an excellent free lesson in what it’s like to be trans in real life and how people like Mary are the main reason the suicide rates of transpeople are so staggeringly high… You vanished. Big fucking surprise
Just saying that the way you keep trying to find ways to safely put down LBGQT people in the strip is being noticed, Janet. Because yeah, you never really put down Mary. Heck, you tried to make it seem like Carla and Mary should find “some middle ground”, as if a trans person can find some fucking middle ground with the type of person that sincerely wishes they never existed! Should Carla try to only half-exist, huh? HUH? Yeah fucking right!
Just give up, Janet. We can see through your weak attempts of minimizing just how much of an ass Mary is. And we know where to find your shit.
I’m not going to pretend Mary isn’t an ass, Norton – hell, most of the animosity aimed at her by characters and commenters alike is well deserved.
What I object to is this tired notion that because she’s an ass it makes her a “brilliantly-written villain” and that anyone she’s antagonized must be a blameless victim. Ruth is not a saint. Carla is not a goddess. Becky is not the Second-Coming. That doesn’t make them bad people, it just makes them people – people who shouldn’t be put up on a pedestal by this community and declared immune from criticism or being called on their crap.
And what I MOST object to is you and Cerb and all the other commenters who rush in every time I call them on it who immediately resort to the same, old, tired, baseless insults. “Oh, she doesn’t like my favorite LGBTQ character – she must be some sinister, hand-wringing bigot!!!” You know nothing about who I am, what my sexual identity is, what kind of prejudice or abuse I’ve lived through – it doesn’t even cross your mind. Not for a second. I disagree with you – I must be a bigot. I don’t think Ruth is a blameless victim – I must hate all LGBTQ people. Anything else you want to throw at me? Please, go right ahead. Hey, I don’t like Sal that much – I guess that makes me a damn, dirty Aunt Tammy then, huh? That’s how this works, right?
Screw you. I stand by my opinions. I still think Becky needs to get her s*** together, I still think Carla goes out of her way to poke every sleeping bear she runs across, and I still think Ruth has a f***ing problem. She’s had a problem for a LONG time, and the idea that she was somehow “driven to suicide” by Mary’s half-assed attempt at blackmail is giving her WAY too much credit.
You’re welcome to disagree with me. Hell, I welcome it. (and don’t worry, I won’t call you a bigot for it!)
Ruth has serious problems. No one denies that. Mary saw those problems and went “I can use this” and went and twisted the knife deeper. She may have been on the edge and might have stumbled over on her own eventually, but Mary still gave her a good big push.
This is a real thing. This happens. It happens to vulnerable people. People with depression or other problems. Some people here have talked about living through it. Others, not here, haven’t lived through it.
I think you are doing a lot of victim blaming.
Sure, Carla could be more careful about who she offends. She could walk on eggshells at all times. She might be safer that way. But she shouldn’t have to and blaming her for not doing so (or far worse, blaming real people in similar situations for not doing so) doesn’t help us get to the point where they don’t have to.
It would be great if Becky had her shit together. If she somehow knew what she needed to get a job and find a place to live and could pull all of that together and stop being a burden on her friends in the two weeks since her life exploded, but she’s a homeless teenage lesbian who’s been controlled and limited all her life precisely to keep her from having her shit together. It’s ridiculous to think she would. Frankly, it’s almost unbelievable she’s as together as she is, even without the added trauma of the happy fun gun times and then facing Carol & John & that church.
And few think these characters are perfect – cooing over Dina & Becky’s cuteness aside. Even Cerberus has critiqued them. Just not over the things you attack them for.
“the idea that she was somehow “driven to suicide” by Mary’s half-assed attempt at blackmail is giving her WAY too much credit.”
I…what? You’re showing a stunning lack of understanding of cause and effect. Yes, Mary absolutely was responsible for Ruth’s suicide attempt, by way of ripping away her support structure; unhealthy and codependent as it was, Billie was keeping her above water. Take that one float away, and she drowns.
There’s plenty of valid reasons to dislike Ruth, Carla and Becky, and plenty of ways to express that without being hurtful towards real people who’ve been in similar situations, but you went straight for “reminding everyone of the victim’s flaws (real or imagined) because clearly they don’t deserve as much sympathy as they’re getting”.
Who Mary’s victims are or how “innocent” or “blameless” they are or are not does not change how vile her actions are. It has absolutely no effect on the moral landscape. Especially since her reasons for targeting them has nothing to do with their actual flaws.
Yeah, Ruth is a terrible RA right now and her relationship, even with its good moments, is problematic as hell, on multiple levels. That doesn’t justify blackmailing and nearly driving her to suicide. Even if that wasn’t the result Mary intended (and I’m not completely convinced of this), she clearly did not care if it happened. When everyone found out how bad it was, Mary’s only concern was holding onto her leverage, knowing what might happen, and had already come too close to happening.
Being a jerk and a deliberate pain in the ass doesn’t justify transphobic hate speech towards Carla, either. Sure, she could avoid antagonizing assholes like Mary and keep her head down, but she should not have to do that just to “qualify” for basic human empathy.
Lastly, I don’t care if you’ve lived through the exact same scenario that lead to Becky’s current situation, and were somehow employed and self-sufficient later that same day. It still wouldn’t make your constant whinging about how Becky needs to “get her shit together” any less absurd or unfounded. Being “responsible” here doesn’t mean “spending your every waking moment job-hunting” (though it’s damn impressive how quickly she resumed it after being kidnapped at gunpoint). Even someone who isn’t a doubly-traumatized teenage runaway would quickly burn out from that, and since she is one, not collapsing into a sobbing, gibbering heap should be a priority. She’ll never manage to put her life back together if tries to just power through non-stop and ignore the strain on her own mental health.
But by all means, keep victim-blaming and brushing off the hostile response because we’re just “unwilling to see the character’s flaws”, and don’t ever consider that maybe the nature or the tone of your criticisms might actually be hurtful to real people.
This.
Mary’s actions are vile and sadly common. And to try and justify that shit and hint hint nudge nudge that Ruth’s relationships aren’t real or that the only reason anyone could find the sadly common life experience of people trying to drive mentally ill queer kids to suicide is because they just can’t bear to see flaws in the beloved queer characters is a special level of just… no.
And I love how the bigot brigade always seems to forget the many many times I’ve called out characters I love on their shit.
Hell, you called out Becky for trying to trick Dina into taking her hat off less than a week ago!
Dina has yet to be terribly problematic in a way she can be blamed for – by which I mean: I don’t think it’s fair to shit on Dina for letting Amber’s dad in because 1, that’s a mistake an NT person probably would’ve made (and did make – hi Danny) and 2, blaming an autistic person for not being able to read a social situation is like blaming a wheelchair user for not being able to run a marathon. It’s not exactly fair. But I’m sure she’ll get her chance.
But Becky’s been called on her tendency to try to bypass the “asking for consent” stage of sexual/kink stuff (like Dina’s hat, which normally would not be a sexual thing, but Becky’s kink makes it sexual in the context of her relationship with Dina). Joyce has been called on her tendency to blindly accept the biases she was raised with and shove her religion down others’ throat (hell, I’ll say this: I used to despise Joyce. She was every obnoxious god-botherer I’ve ever dealt with who makes shit difficult for me as a queer disabled atheist. But she’s grown, both on me and as a character, which is why I respect her as a character, and I’ve even grown to like her over the recent story arc). AG’s been called out for being a stalkery racist goon on more than a few occasions. Ruth was called out for sexually assaulting Billie. Billie was called out for being an asshole to Walky and others. Walky’s been called out many many many many times for pretty much being Walky. I could go on here.
We’re not siding with Ruth and Billie here because they’re special snowflakes who can do no wrong. In my case, I’m siding with them because I’ve been there with people trying actively to drive me to suicide and I know first-hand how fucked up a situation that is and how massively unfair it is to be blamed for. Being targeted for my sexuality is a thing I’ve experienced. And let’s be perfectly fucking clear here: The only reason Mary is not including threats of corrective rape in her harassment is because she’s a woman. If she was a guy, there’d be all of the disgusting, “I should come to your room tonight and show you what a real man is like,” *insert crotch grab and hip thrust* type shit.
(yes, that is a comment I got after putting a safe space sticker on my door in the dorm my first year of Uni – after being too afraid to for three months because I came from a rural area and was fully expecting harassment and corrective rape threats. While I was putting the damn thing on, our resident bigot asked me why I “loved queers.” I told him that I was bi and he could fuck off. My RA said I “contributed” to the situation by telling the guy homophobically harassing me to fuck off before he threatened-by-implication to rape me. And therefore no action was warranted over a rape threat.)
Janet, you do not get to slap on the label “Not a homophobe!” just because you don’t actively want queer people dead. Making excuses for someone’s homophobia is in itself homophobia, ya dingus.
You may not realize that you hate queer people, but you need to ask yourself: why do you dislike all the queer women characters and in the same breath defend the openly homophobic and transphobic character? Maybe it’s because your opinions don’t exist in a vacuum, and are actually influenced by your biases and bigotries.
Not to mention, the idea you put forward that because these lgbt characters are not freaking paradigms of perfection and have the NERVE to not be nice to someone who openly hates their existence, that they deserve to be subjected to bigotry. No one should have to be nice to someone who hates them because they would be put in danger if they weren’t. You shouldn’t treat the humanity of queer people, such as myself, as conditional based on whether we’re subservient to the straight majority or not.
Maybe take a god damn minute sometime to think about how your thoughts and opinions are influenced by a culture of bigotry.
You may not realize that you hate queer people
Wow! I’m learning so much about myself from all these complete and total strangers today! Are you a psychic? Can you see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
they deserve to be subjected to bigotry
At no point did I say that. No one deserves to be subjected to hate for who or what they are, BUT being a victim of bigotry, no matter how blatant, hateful, or obscene – does not absolve someone of THEIR bad choices, THEIR problems, and THEIR mistakes. Mary’s behavior is unacceptable, but it’s incredible how much of Ruth’s violent, abusive, and self-destructive behavior (both past and present) people are willing to overlook.
I don’t see where anyone has said it absolved them of anything. Nor that Ruth’s depression, self-loathing, or alcoholism excuse her of all the bad things she’s done.
Neither of these is required for people to feel sympathy for her.
ah, I see you decided to ignore what i was saying in favor of getting pissy over being called homophobic. didn’t see that coming.
This may surprise you, but I don’t need to personally know you or read your mind to tell if your being homophobic. I just have to read your comments, your biases are pretty plainly laid out there. As I said, you’re defending a homophobe, and you only bring up her faults when defending yourself from claims of homophobia. Plus, the label of “homophobe” is not a label chosen by homophobes, it’s a label given by queer people to point out those who are dangerous to us. You don’t get to choose that you’re not a homophobe once i call you a homophobe. You have you prove that you’re not a homophobe, which requires a lot of work, and self awareness that you clearly lack.
So, like I said, and I’m going to put this in all caps and bold it this time so you don’t miss it, but will probably ignore anyway: YOU NEED TO QUESTION YOUR THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS AND HOW THEY ARE INFORMED BY BIASES. If you want to claim that you’re not bigot, you have to do the work that comes with that, and questioning your biases is on the top of that list.
Another thing you can do is instead of getting offended as though “bigot” is the worst thing you could ever possibly be called is to ask “What can i do to change that?” and then committing to that change.
And you did in fact say:
“What I object to is this tired notion […] that anyone [mary’s] antagonized must be a blameless victim. Ruth is not a saint. Carla is not a goddess. Becky is not the Second-Coming. ”
“Blameless victim”? that’s you saying they deserved it. Ya bigot.
Can you see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
You get that the joke in that line is that it’s not actually hidden, but is right there plain to see… right?
Becky’s shit is superhumanly together.
You’re right. Mary’s not a Machiavelli. She doesn’t have to be.
She’s a human, petty bully, who actively tried to push someone to suicide. That happens a fuckload more often than you think it does. Hell, I know of five users just in the regular posters on DoA who have survived someone trying that shit (me and Cerberus included). Not all kids survive it. Heard of Rehtaeh Parsons? Amanda Todd? Phoebe Prince? Sara Clerkson? Jadin Bell? Tyler Clementi? Ryan Patrick Halligan? Jamie Hubley? I could go on.
Petty, minor bullies intentionally pushing already-troubled people (sometimes people whose troubles they helped create in the firs place) over the edge is not something that requires a Moriarty level intellect. It is perfectly banal. A child can do it. I know because children have done it. Children tried to do it to me, constantly, for 9 years (between age 8 and 17, when I graduated from HS and immediately moved 800km away to a school where nobody from my high school was attending so I could get the fuck away from them).
Cerberus is not painting Mary as a supervillan. Rather, Willis (intentionally, I suspect because dude’s got chops) is painting Mary as the perfect example of the banality of evil.
And you didn’t even see the comment I deleted without posting last night.
Panel 2: Billie is done with your shit, Mary. Billie is done with all your shit. And now that Ruth is outted, Billie has literally zero reason to keep playing your twisted game. You can thank Carla for that checkmate, by the way. As Billie notes, you lost before you even knew it.
Panel 3: Nnngh *bites through pillow* So utterly loathsome. Just instantly gliding away from the direct responsibility, full of bullshit, playing off what a dangerous game she just played with her mental health, and then still heavily implying that Ruth “deserved” to nearly die (and you just know Mary wouldn’t have given one single fuck if the nearly was absent in that sentence), simply because she dared to be queer.
Because in her twisted theology, Ruth’s queerness is not about a codependent women-loving-women relationship with a woman who reached into her darkness and made her feel things for the first time in a while. Is not about her orientation or her life.
It’s an attack on Mary, on Mary’s beliefs, on Mary’s righteousness. On Mary’s soul. It’s Jack Chick’s philosophy, La Haye and Jenkins’ philosophy, Pat Robertson’s philosophy.
People who are “sinners” don’t exist as people, just living their lives, thinking nary a thought of assholes who use their religion as a weapon except where it is used to attack them. Instead, they are agents of Satan actively attacking the moral righteousness of the chosen and serving as set-pieces to show one’s holiness against.
It’s the mentality that lead Carol to care far more about showing how anti-Becky the lesbian she was than to show an ounce of genuine care and concern over her daughter and her daughter’s friend who both nearly lost their lives. Because their lives don’t really matter except through the lens of her soul.
And Mary lives in that, thrives on that, envisions herself as the queen bee.
And it’s what allows her to delude herself that amidst her hall showing their strong condemnation of her bullshit, amidst her hall hating her, that everyone knows in their darkest of hearts that she is right. That her “morality” is correct and that her petty bigotries against queer folk is what everyone secretly agrees with even though they are under orders of Satan to pretend otherwise.
That even the woman who loves Ruth with all her heart, who ran into a room to try and save her when she heard she might kill herself knowing that it would out the both of them, would agree that Ruth should have died for being queer and daring to defy Mary.
And it’s sick, because it’s the root of a lot of stuff that’s real. Where queer lives, queer loves are just seen as props in a game of who wins the most Satan or God points. Where we are not legitimate as we are, simply as things to destroy to prove a moral point.
I have nothing meaningful to add to this, just know that I am applauding so hard at it because yes. It’s this. It’s all of this.
Panel 4: Honestly, I’m baffled why she doesn’t just pull that switch anyways. Ruth and Billie have nothing to lose. It can only help Ruth by explaining some of her collapse to the RA. And Mary has not only lost all her leverage but is actively gloating over the body she nearly created like a two-bit villain.
Like, I get that you probably don’t want to talk to Ruth’s boss more than necessary, but there’s really no reason for her to imply shit here rather than making sure Mary burns on the pyre she made.
I dunno, maybe I’m missing something.
Panel 5: Threats, threats, and more threats. Always the terrorism to prevent any real consequences for her actions. And the said thing is how many times she must have got away with this shit simply because she went after people too marginalized to fight back effectively to believe that this will always work.
Panel 6: Agatha is joy. That is all.
I think Billie doesn’t pull the switch for the worst reason . She doesn’t play this like a rightfully angry student (like Sarah would for example). She plays this like another Bully in a turf war.
I get the impression she was pretty good at that back in high school.
This will be ugly.
I dunno, Mary does still have one card she could play: she knows about Becky
She might not be able to hurt Ruth with that information, but there’s plenty of other people who she can torment / threaten with it.
At which point Angry!Joyce pops up again.
Mary was found three weeks later in a shallow grave.
I think Billie is holding back hoping Mary will take the opportunity to dig herself in even deeper. Which may be a little of long experience of not being taken seriously when trying to convince people of anything and a little of sadism – nothing like someone so fully deserving of eating shit as Mary to bring out our cruelty.
Cause she has absolutely no trust in anyone outside to understand or help? Cause she’s depressed?
Cause she’s “head chearleader, problem solver” and if she can’t handle it herself, she’s a failure?
Cause she needs therapy as badly as Ruth and seems less likely to really get any.
Not good for anyone, but in keeping with her character.
On a more thematic level, because it looks to me like a huge part of the point of this chapter in particular is about this: Amazi-Girl and Sal. Sal and Leland. Amazi-Girl (and Sal) and Ryan. Now Billie and Mary.
When it’s right, when it’s wrong, how the authorities and the people around react and what the consequences are.
I was kinda expecting Ruth to pull the trigger on it during her trying to get fired. It’s a two-fer: presented in the right light it makes her all the more fireable, and it throws Mary into the cold, harsh light of day.
Just like it says in the Bible: “Eat, drink, and [i]beat Mary.[/i]”
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff why is bbcode even a thing for me to get in the habit of using
Agatha is a cute lil button. That is all.
That is the truth
Can Mary be hit by a truck, please?
As an Autobot, wouldn’t you know a few trucks you could ask?
I asked, and they all went “NOPE. NOT TOUCHING THAT”
Agatha is up to date with the plot. Good for you, Agatha
Bully-Billie is back. Yay…
I do want to see Mary dealt to but Billie doing it…I’m not so sure, shes so messed up at the moment so her resorting to (apparently) what she was like in High School is not good
Shes still in an incredibly toxic relationship so shes got that to deal with so I’d prefer itif someone else dealt to Mary, probably won’t happen though
just a gentle warning and reminder, Mary: Billie was destroying people on a mental and emotional level and ruining lives long before you got out of the cotton wool realm of home schooling. If you want to make this a fight, you’re fighting a Master who has literally got nothing left to lose.
And she wasn’t even trying those times. I shudder to think what will happen when Billie actually puts her mind to it.
the problem with leaving someone completely ruined little miss mary, is that there is nothing more to hold them back after.
Not just Mary. She’s scary Mary.
Fuck you Mary. Fuck you very very much.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaat is this and why has it not been brought to my attention before?
This is Lily Allen. This song is a delight. Or at least the chorus is.
Lily Allen’s thing is putting statement songs to the tune of 60s-style bubblegum pop. I don’t always like her statements (she had one a few years back that was basically dressed-up slut-shaming) but this one is gold. 🙂
Much as I have a soft spot for CeeLo Green’s song – this one hits the spirit of the cheery “fuck you very much” right on the nail without the creepy sexist Nice Guy vibes of Green’s song.
That song is a remarkably good ‘feel good’ song, even without someone specific to direct the sentiment at. >_>
Sharp, Agatha. Sharp.
Has Mary done something Billie can threaten her with? I can’t remember…
I hate reading strips like this, becuase I so desperately want to be there…. How fun it would be to argue with Mary, as her face became more and more apoplectic with rage!
an apoplexy a day keeps sanity away
really pulled a Jeph Jaques there mate. At least it wasn’t a farts joke.
Agatha is a great touch. The serious bitterness between these two could seem too sharp and verging on violent. Like physically attacking her. But with Agatha it now has a Buggs Bunny “This means war” feel to it. Billie needs to enlist Carla as a consultant.
“Billingsworth” is a great name for the villain to shout skyward while shaking their fists.
…in the rain…
As very much as I would like to see Billy get the best of Mary, I would prefer that Mary’s VAST (and amusingly perverse and varied) collection of sex toys and bondage mags comes to light, to kick the wind out of her sails and show her Totally Awe Inspiring levels of hypocrisy. But perhaps I am wrong, her vile behavior is maybe just her frustration with her inability to justify being human. Please correct me if I’m off base.
Mary being a hypocrite despite being true in the walkyverse is actually a twist I don’t want to happen. The problem with Mary isn’t that she’s hypocritical, its that she’s vile and so are the ideals she clings to. If she’s proven to be a hypocrite it makes it seem like its not her ideas that are wrong, but her inability to fully embody them.
Same. I always dislike it in fiction. I mean it happens in real life sometimes but far less than people think. (I despise how every time some homophobic preacher goes off the accusations of him really being ‘gay’ go off… it probably happens in like 1 out of very 100 homophobic preacher: you just hear of the so called ‘hypocrites’ more often because people find it funny. )
*10000th
If bondage is that “dark secret” that Mary is harboring, then, A, I’m annoyed that bondage might be painted in broad brushstrokes as deviant, unknown, and based on abuse and lack of consent, WHICH IT IS NOT when practiced correctly; and B, the horrifying fear that Mary might utilize BDSM elements for their improper use to punish/sexually assault people in horrifyingly base ways. This is all speculation, but I’ll be truly horrified if I’m correct.
It’s not really about bondage being bad but Mary being a hypocrite by condemning that way of life and yet being a part of it. Pretty much the same kind of hypocrisy as the one coming from gay-bashing politicians who are later revealed to be gay themselves.
I fell it would still be kink-shaming. When the only representation a comic has of a minoritary and discriminated against thing is negative, it’s a discriminatory comic.
feel*
Aren’t AG and Danny into it though, or is my info about the Slipshines wrong? (I’ve only got second hand info, as I can’t justify buying the subscription at this point).
Welp in any case, it’s not really part of the comic. (And from what I’ve heard, it’s not an accurate representation of bondage since it’s not “safe”. Then again, I didn’t buy it myself so I don’t really know.)
What is Agatha talking about? Did she have to think to remember what Mary’s name was?
It’s Mary who will be left vulnerable. Billy was implying this but she pointed it out blatantly.
I’m not sure about Agatha. This reminds me of the bit at the end of the blackmail prayer meeting, where Agatha’s like “Mary, I’d love to pray with you. After all 3 Nephi 18:19 instructs us always to pray.”
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/cashin/
I can’t believe that wasn’t intentional, so I suspect this is too. Agatha’s playing straight man.
She’s also one of the people who helped hide Becky from Ruth before:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/steplightly/
I like her.
I know that’s an old comic, but I wanted to say that it says a lot that Mary just called prayer “stupid”. It really shows it’s not even about Christianity so much as her own self-aggrandizement.
Ugh. Mary is such a mix of vileness and stupidity.
Is the title text a common pun or a Ramona Quimby referemxe? (Beverly Clearly was my favorite author when I was young.)
Billie. STRIKE HER DOWN.
With your hate!
But, then, won’t she rise again stronger than before?
That last panel gave a very, very happy chuckle…
Hey, look, it’s Murder! I mean Mary!
Hmmm, it seems Billie was in the middle of talking to Agatha as Mary walked by: so is Agatha asking questions about Ruth? I think she and Billie have interacted before if only off screen when Billie tried her hand at solving problems Ruth wasn’t getting to before they were together in any case.
Well, Mary HAS bit off more than she can chew.
After all, this was *really* about Mary trying to convince herself she isn’t a nobody’s nobody.
She tries to convince herself she’s some sort of moral center in her dorm floor. Not only do other Christians not even care what she thinks, she practically confesses to being a conniving coward to something her precious accusations were barely an additional nail in Ruth’s coffin of alcoholic breakdown.
Billie, on the other hand, always had enough clout to go with every awful thing she did to herself, others, and the integrity of the human species. Rich parents, always a girl gone wild at parties and on the cheerleading squad, her rep as an alcoholic even made it to the university. Poison, yes, but A) it was brazen enough to make people care one way or another, and B) She’s come to terms with her shittiness, rather than clinging to heckling to avoid doing so. She’s even learned to care about someone other than herself all the time.
You don’t use a one-time favor the mayor owes to squash a single cockroach. Forget murder, assault, or anything that would validate Mary as a victim. Not necessary. Billie’s a former professional bully, and Mary forgets just how much she’s unknowingly given Billie to work with. Even now, she has more friends *and* social credibility than Mary, whom caves easily to clever retaliations, as Carla knew.
Sorry Mary, but as things are, Billie can tread how she pleases.
I’m sorry. I always try to be a gentleman, but Mary seems to be one of those rare people who truly deserves a Pedibus Rectal Incursion! It’s Latin. Look it up…
As much as I hate to admit it, Mary is truly someone to whom much mischief should occur.
Well, she already seems to have a Rectal Cranial Inversion, so that’s gonna be awkward.
Scroll-over text.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LJCnEZKlm0
Wow, did Mary really make a suicide joke to said suicidal person’s lover right there? That’s….that’s not bad. It’s not mean, it’s not even cruel – it’s just unconscionable. Mary being a hardcore Christian is the ultimate irony, because in order to hit that level of base sociopathy, you’d have to be devoid of a soul.
Also, what is Billie talking about? I’m trying to think back and, while ever the asshole, I don’t recall Mary breaking any rules. Was it the transphobic comment to Carla? Carla had her revenge, but I imagine campus has their own rules on hate speech.
…..well, that’s an oops.
Probably the fact that Mary was blackmailing them? Blackmail is bad too.
Transphobic behavior, damaging Carla’s stuff, blackmail, probably a bunch of other stuff that’s not on-panel because it’s lesser/to non-primary characters.
Why is Agatha not a main character? “Hey Dina! Becky wants you to take your hat off!” and so on. It would simplify so much.
Because she would simplify too much, can’t have some one sensible and well adjusted as a main character
Mary needs to take her own advice..
I know it’s a few days late (busy earning that money stuff), but a few wanted modified versions of Joyce’s cunning smile? Well, got a couple done, 2nd used a Joyce-Triangle Smile which looks a bit evil, but the 1st I made, using a smile I got off a Becky pic, well, didn’t turn out…right…
OK, don’t know how, but this somehow ended up on YESTERDAY’s comic, when I’m certain I wrote it on TODAY’s comic. Gonna see if I can copy & paste it to today’s. Hopefully it’ll work…
Agatha is me. Endless patience and not an ounce of comprehension.