Basically what I’m hoping for is a giant fight which works its way through along the entire campus, and then no one gets in trouble because Robin declares it to be awesome.
Superhero fights become part of her campaign platform, she works out a deal with Marvel, and becomes the first President to be elected wearing a cape and mask.
…Anyway, I like this a lot more than Amber getting unmasked and expelled.
I dunno, Robin seems a whole lot more grounded than her old Walkyverse counterpart. Also it’s painfully clear that if push comes to shove, Sal has a rock solid harassment case.
Even if she did, she ain’t no snitch. She doesn’t believe in the system or systems of authority in general, even if Amber did kick her ass she probably wouldn’t pursue it legally.
Definitely better if Amber falls apart. At least that option has the possibility that somebody will realize that Amber is messed up in the head and get her some help. If they fight, it is only going to lead to more fights.
All I know is that this storyline is looking a lot like Trayvon Martin so far. Vigilante mistakenly stalks black kid that isn’t doing anything criminal, black kid gets pissed off, confrontation ensues… what happens next?
It’s *possible* that it’s a coincidence, or that Willis is doing this as a misdirection, but still, if I were Sal, I’d not want to get into this fight.
Obviously Amazi-Girl shoots Sal. Otherwise the parallel falls apart. Someone else shooting her breaks the parallel.
Really, I don’t see the similarities. Zimmerman wasn’t a disassociating abuse victim. There was no history between the two.
Despite Sal being black, the police aren’t likely to take the girl dressed up in a superhero costume too seriously. Or possibly take her too seriously – the mentally ill are also common victims of police shootings.
Every single detail doesn’t have to be identical for the story to give off a certain vibe.
Although you do have a point about the superhero costume—that should be a point in Sal’s favor. Sal has a record, though, and is black, and will likely be winning at the time the cops show up if these two get into a fight. :-/
Assuming it plays out like that, which I don’t think it will, it all depends on how Amazi-Girl reacts to the cops – which is likely to involve fleeing and maybe fighting to keep her identity secret – that’s all part of her mythology. If she does talk, she’s likely to be ranting about how Sal is a master villain.
If she’s on the ground, they can shoot down with little chance of hitting a bystander, just the former convict who clearly started it and if she didn’t want to be shot then why does she drive a motorcycle, huh?
Followed by an undramatic “Is seeing your face supposed to mean something? We live in the same dorm, if recognizing you meant something to me it would have happened by now. Use your words.”
It reminds me of an old American dad episode where Steve thought he was a werewolf, so he offered to let one of his friends kill him Toshi then responded “You have shamed me by offering me my greatest wish” (in Japanese).
We bring it up from time to time. A while back we even debated what Caste of Solar Joyce would be in Exalted.
’tis a blessed hive of dorks and nerdery.
I would definitely recommend it. Exalted (As long as you have a solid GM who is willing to cooperate with you) is a blast to play, allowing for you to make basically any character you want. You want to be the monkey king, wielding a gigantic staff and being the proud warrior of Heaven? You can totally do that.
I’ve heard good things, but a word of caution: it’s an over-the-top setting where the expectation is that all player characters are godlike symbionts explicitly capable of doing the impossible, so if you want to play mortals then it’s best to have a whole playgroup of people who take a Dark Souls-ish attitude to character death.
as someone who has been to therapists and both in and out patient it isn’t just something you cant always just get. when you feel broken you almost feel like you can fix yourself like putting together a puzzle.
its when you feel ruined. beyond repair. that you are willing to try anything. you will put the shards that remain of you and melt them down with help from other to try to make something that can be used. something that functions. even if it wasn’t what it originally was or looks like you wish it did. if it works and doesn’t keep breaking you can at least feel its better than struggling alone on a puzzle that keeps falling apart.
It’s gonna be Sal. As much as Amber has deluded herself in thinking she’s a superhero and hot shit when it comes to being a badass, Sal is genuinely a badass. Amber in her Amazi-Girl delusion may be able to take on drunken college delinquents who don’t actually know how to fight, but Sal could lay her out in one fucking punch.
Sal came to blows with Malaya that one time, though, and though it was brief, Malaya won. It’s possible Sal gets by more on attitude than actual toughness.
Malaya didn’t win.
She landed a hit, and then Marcie convinced Sal to walk away. There was no resolution, just the whole thing being called off before it turned into a fight and/or anyone was incapacitated.
Marcie showed up and broke up the fight almost immediately. Malaya got in a couple punches, but I suspect Sal would have won that if it had continued. Fights tend to turn around on Malaya pretty quick
She was extra unstable at the time because she thought she was about to be outed as Amazi-girl.
Now she’s likely to out Amber as Amazi-girl through her own unstable derangement.
Malaya winning, even though she didn’t actually, would mean nothing over whether she could take Amazi-Girl. They fight entirely differently and Amber could reassert herself at any time. A fight would be hard to predict.
There was also her dad, and that time she fought Ross from on top of a speeding car. She is badass. Or was at least, when she was less unstable. When it comes to Sal, she’s too angry to fight well. Which is definitely for the best.
I dunno… that anger also helps her get up without even slowing downfrom stuff that would leave other people down for quite a while.
I worry that this will get messy, but if it does, I’m going to enjoy it before the consequences set in.
I disagree, we’ve seen Amber take on men that’re bigger and stronger as well as her father who was also bigger, stronger and as aggressive
Sal, on the other hand, has taken on Malaya, Sal may be a badass but we haven’t seen it in action whereas we’ve seen Amber deal to a larger, stronger male
Be a good fight though so (fingers crossed) we’ll see it next strip
You mean, we’ve seen her take on men who are used to dealing with submissive women, and therefore mistakenly believe that all women are weak and submissive.
Never underestimate the power of being underestimated.
It’s honestly a wash as to who is tougher because we don’t have a measuring stick to gauge them. We know that both are physically ridiculous in terms of prowess and aptitude; Amber can scale buildings and free-climb in and out of trees, do crazy parkour stunts, and beat the shit out of fully grown men significantly bigger than herself. Her dad is a grown-ass man and a guy who is known to use physical violence, and not only did she bust his face open, but she also had no problem evading him entirely.
Meanwhile, Sal hasn’t fought much, but we know she can take hits from people like Malaya and shrug them off, and both her and Marcie seem to know that Sal is tough enough that there is literally no reason for her to even begin to try to fight Malaya. Malaya is the only common thread between Sal and Amber physically, and Amber straight-up judo-flipped Malaya eight feet into the air while winded. We know that, essentially, Malaya is a normal, fit woman, and both Sal and Amber hilariously out-match her in a fight.
Furthermore, we’ve seen Sal pilot a bike at high speeds in complex maneuvers with a passenger who had never been on one before, in traffic, and while doing so, pluck a full-grown 150lbs+ woman out of the air one-handed with ease. That’s as insane as Amber herself doing all of her super-hero stuff. Sal has nothing to prove to herself or anyone, from her perspective, so that’s why we never see her do much impressive stuff, while we see Amber do so much impressive stuff in the first place because she’s trying to prove something to herself. That’s why I think you can’t gauge the outcome of such a fight without seeing it play out. They’re both borderline super-human, and we haven’t seen either of them actually come close to their limit.
It would actually bother me if Sal was as good as AG. AG has actually been training her whole life. She can do super heroic things. Sal even assumed she would kill people but she didn’t.
Now, maybe Sal fights dirtier, and that gives her an advantage. But she needs to be weaker than AG.
i’m just waiting for the inviable collapse of this drama tower, hopefully it at least ends with amber and danny making up if not “making up” (I mean getting back together not sex, I’m no relationship expert but, that’d probably be a bad idea just after getting back together.)
I don’t think Amber and Danny are ever going to get back together (though I would very much like to be wrong on that), but if this is her reaction to fighting Sal then the next time she sees Danny it’s probably going to take her all of five minutes to break through her perception of him as a betrayer and apologize.
Same, and given how Amber is acting now I don’t think it’ll take much more than one talk with Danny while she’s Amber, not feeling actively threatened and betrayed, and maybe some prompting with Ethan, for them to be on good terms again.
Everyone besides Joyce and Mary either run out or are dragged out.
Joyce and Mary prepare to fight.
Aka: You must understand you have no chance, even the two strongest warriors of Indiana are nothing compared to me.
Joyce turns to Mary.
Joyce: You don’t have to do this, really.
Mary: I’ve come this far, but I really do hate you.
Joyce: The feelings mutual.
Joyce smiles slightly and runs at Aka (who is currently possessing Danny from last time)
Aka blocks her first punch, but is actually staggered by a kick to the side of the head. Mary jumps in after Joyce and kicks Aka in the chin.
Joyce: He’s losing power.
Mary: He’s losing control.
Aka: NO! THIS BODY IS MINE!
Joyce runs up and punches him in the stomach, while Mary kicks him on the top of the head from above.
Aka screams and punches them both into the ceiling. He then unleashes a series of energy beams into it.
Mary and Joyce dodge quickly, and push of the ceiling with their feet.
They jump down face first at Aka and both punch him in the face.
They flip back and gain some distance, while Aka rubs out his eyes.
Aka: I am the enternal, I will not be defeated by some idiotic little girls.
Aka rushes at them and fires a massive energy beam at Mary, Mary dodges and the attack blows through the building.
Mary: Jeez!
Joyce: Mary!
Mary: What!?
Joyce: We can’t risk harming Danny’s body, too much.
Mary: I’m cool with that.
Joyce: Mary…
Mary: Fine, Fine…so we need to find away to break the demons control.
Joyce: Any ideas?
Mary: Danny did a technique to save Amber from Amazi-Girl.
Joyce: Got it!
Joyce: Runs up to Aka and puts her hands on his forehead.
Joyce: (Thinking) Please work, oh please work.
Joyce: ULTIMATE COMPASSION.
Joyce enters into Danny’s mind and sees him chained with Aka guarding him.
Danny: Faintly, hey Joyce…
Joyce runs up and tries to pull Danny from his chains.
Aka: It won’t work, only I can release him from…
Joyce: Than I’ll just pull you out!
Joyce grabs onto Aka’s soul and jumps out of Danny.
A black smoke with goat horns forms in front of them.
Aka: This body won’t last long but it will be enough to kill you.
Joyce steps up and Mary joins her.
Aka prepares to releases a hyper powerful attack, strong enough to destroy a planet.
Joyce: Mary, we have to do this one together!
Mary: Fine then!
Joyce: CREATION OF ADAM!
Mary: CREATION OF EVE!
Aka: WORMWOOD!
Their attacks meet in midair.
Mary: I can’t hold him.
Joyce: Mary, go…I can handle this.
Mary: Good luck.
Mary pulls Danny away.
Aka: You can only die.
Joyce almost thinks she can hear the voices of Dorothy, and Billie, and Becky and everyone else behind her. She turns her head for a few seconds to find that they have returned.
Dorothy: Kick his ass Joyce.
Joyce: Right!
Joyce pours all of her power into the attack until it manages to overpower him and strikes.
This is the real issue. Even if Amazi-Girl starts the fight, you have a white folk hero at a conservative rally versus a black anti-establishment woman with a violent criminal record. Sal would be lucky to get out of there without being gunned down, and at best is going to go to prison. The fact that 100% of the real consequences will come down on Sal will just be one more thing weighing down on Amber’s conscience if they do end up brawling, and she’s already past her breaking point.
I mean, really. Amber has reached insane-stalker levels of persistence. If there’s going to be a fight, the fight is going to last until somebody intervenes and breaks it up, no matter how uneven the fight is (and I doubt very much the fight is uneven at all. The last time Amber was this angry she put Blaine in the hospital).
i can picture amber in a sort of inpatient and dina talking to the school counselor
“Dina didn’t you find your room mates behavior odd?”
“A little but I assumed it was something I didn’t understand the societal aspect of and let it be.”
“I can understand sometimes thinking you don’t understand what is going on but when……. Dina where did you go?!”
“I’m still sitting in the chair ma’am. I am sorry. I did not intend to go unnoticed I might need to pick a more colorful dinosaur hoodie to draw attention when I am in a serious discussion.”
I so hope so. Amazi-girl needs to get off this road and needs to allow herself another emotion other than “steely determination” and “rage disguised as justice”. Amazi-girl breaking down in tears would be so amazingly powerful and a sign that she’s back on route to integration.
[WARNING: Drama!™ may cause emotional stress. Possible side effects include screaming, tears, sleeplessness, or structural damage. Ask your agent if Drama!™ is right for you.]
I’m so tired of Amber’s shittiness and hypocrisy regarding the legal system. It bugged me a little when she bristled at Danny about drinking, it pissed me off when she expressed pleasure at Sal’s difficulties with a record, and this is just peak garbageness. Her ability to overlook her own incredibly illegal actions while using laws to moralize to others for her own gain bugs me so much.
At this point I’d love for someone to step in and break it up. Here we have a known violent vigilante fugitive, accosting someone who clearly wants to be left alone and she’s talking about self-defense. Ugh.
At this point, I just hope Sal gets out of this without getting in legal trouble or getting seriously hurt.
Amber needs some help but at this point I don’t know what avenue that would even come from.
The fact that she thinks she can legally attack Sal now just because Sal pulled her down a bit ago is frankly laughable. I’m not an expert, but going off what my old self-defense instructor once told me, things can get dicey in court and it’s doesn’t really work that way unless you are definitely in imminent danger.
Pretty much, to justify beating the shit out of someone, your life literally has to be in danger. Obviously complicated in light of radicalized events, but that’s the general rule.
In some places, you have to prove you tried to get away/de-escalate the situation first, otherwise you get into trouble. It’s especially bad if the person is seriously injured. There are women who are in prison for murder because they retaliated against their abusive husbands.
It’s basically like, you have to have a really, really good reason otherwise you’re going down for attacking someone.
It doesn’t look good for Amber, mainly because:
1) She’s been stalking Sal. She can’t deliberately seek Sal out and also claim that she was afraid for her safety. Those two things cannot be true at once.
2) People witnessed Sal throw her down, but they also witnessed her hovering over Sal, as per #1. They also are witnessing her now not backing down, fleeing, or communicating that she wants Sal to go away. She clearly stated before she wants to settle a beef. That’s not self defense, that’s revenge.
Yeah, even if your life is in danger, there are reasonable grounds of violence beyond which you’re still going to get in trouble even if you are acting in self-defense. If you defend yourself from a person and end up breaking their neck, or back, or skull, and you can’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you didn’t intend to do those things, and that they were 100% necessary in defending yourself, you will still get the book thrown at you.
Like, if someone tries to fight you and you take them down hard or knock them out, that’s one thing. But if, in your fear and anger, you turn around after you’ve neutralized the threat from the attacker, and you straight-up soccer kick them in the head, or stomp them, or go for their neck? That part of the altercation is not self-defense, that’s assault, even though it was a retaliatory action.
I would claim that AG is what Batman would have been if he had not had stinking rich parents and magical* resources at his fingertips.
*Not going to find it, but I’ve seen breakdowns of just how damn implausible it is for him to have the kind of computers he usually has without a full team of IT service people on 24/7 retainer. Not to mention how said computers often can do things that actual computers do not.
I’m thinking now that it’s probably more just AG needing Sal to actually throw the first punch for “her moral code” despite what AG said prior. Se can’t quite cross that line to convince herself that the throw was enough to justify attacking. I’m still taking it as a sign of hope for her salvation though, the hopeless optimist that I am.
If I can give my two cents on this… I don’t think she thinks she’s legally “within bounds” to attack Sal. I think she thinks she is morally “within bounds” to attack Sal. She’s gotten into this dangerous mindset where everyone has to obey the law BUT she gets to obey her own moral beliefs which she seems to have put above the law.
I agree. Vigilantes are dangerous because they insist on playing by their own rules, following their own ethical code / laws, while ignoring actual laws.
And sometimes the advice of actual law enforcement. I’m thinking of Zimmerman ignoring the cops telling him to stop stalking Trayvon Martin because in his head, he needed to protect the “sanctity” of the gated community from the “black interloper”.
I don’t think she thinks she can legally attack Sal. People keep evaluating her actions like she’s anywhere near a rational state of mind. She most certainly isn’t.
She is at a breaking point. She has more than one personality going on here. Each is fighting for control. Both are delusional in thinking that there is something going on between Danny and Sal. She knows that she cannot take Sal in a fight. And, she knows she is in the wrong. Yet, her own code, as said above, says she must press on.
And, last, but not least, she is suicidal. She would not actively take her own life, but she will act in a way that will get her killed. Sal knows this. Sal knows this, because she’s been down that road, herself. Amber/AG tried that with the car chase. Sal saved her life, but that wasn’t what she wanted. She wanted to die on the road. And, she is still concussed.
Which is a wild card here. Her concussion, untreated for days, could be getting to a point. A point that drives her to attack, or to break down and cry. Or see technicolor pachyderms.
There’s a sizable distinction between “suicidal” and “not caring if she gets killed”. And I’m not sure that’s even the case.
She’s definitely taking unnecessary risks, but considering how she clearly exhibited fear for her life at a couple points, I’d say she was simply being brave. Foolish, but brave as hell.
OTOH, Sal wasn’t nearly in legal bounds to attack her either. And that move was far from just “pulled her down”.
Legally, at the moment, I’d say AG isn’t justified only because a bit of time (and some words) has passed and Sal hasn’t followed up. That there’s a crowd and security present also reduces the risk to her. She would however have been perfectly justified if she’d moved right after being thrown.
The posturing pretty much kills it being self-defense. 🙂
All of that assuming her stalking of Sal doesn’t constitute a felony and depending on what Indiana’s local laws are.
Yeah, stalking is tricky and exactly what counts varies as you say.
Which I kind of said? If the stalking is a crime, then Sal’s justified and AG can’t claim self-defense. If it isn’t, she could have claimed self-defense if she’d responded to Sal’s attack. It would be harder now that the danger isn’t imminent and they’re both posturing at each other. More like any fight. Either of them could walk away pretty easily at this point.
We’re not really just talking legally though. I mentioned it, but it’s because people are so quick to dismiss this as Sal being violent and unjustified. Ethically, stalking definitely permits as light a thing as what Sal did. She yanked her down and forced a confrontation, which I want to point out is stupid af, but not unethical. What Amber’s doing is stalking, though it might not be considered as such in Indiana (It might also be.)
But that ‘fear in a reasonable person’ thing? That’s because stalking is pretty inherently threatening. If nothing comes of it, great, but still. Some action is legitimately justified.
And no, Legally AG was *NEVER* justified. She was in the midst of what I’m pretty sure is generally considered a violent felony, and is still a violent offense at any rate. Sal taking a swing at her in self defense, was /never/ going to give her a real defense. If you commit assault, and a bystander rushes you to try to stop you, you don’t then get to claim self defense on them.
AG may or may not get off, but that’s because her victim is black, and it’s notoriously difficult to bring white people to trial successfully for crimes of violence against black people.
George Zimmerman got off because of systemic discrimination against POC in the community. By all accounts, especially given that the dispatcher specifically told him to call the police and he didn’t, and then proceeded to engage, he should be in jail. Additionally, that boy actually was defending his life. I have to laugh through my irritation. A lanky, skinny, unarmed teenage boy causing a grown man to quake in his boots.
But he’s not in jail. Why – because a lot of white people still believe the superpredator myth. They still believe that if you’re a black person, walking in the evening, you must be up to no good. You can think of yourself as the nicest person around, and if you were in that situation you’d still clutch your wallet or cross the street. See also: Emmet Till.
What’s more, it’s like pulling teeth to get anyone to admit that, so of course he got off- sending him to prison for murder would mean admitting that what he did was racist, his racism cost an innocent boy his life, and no white person wants to admit that they have ever said anything even a teeny bit problematic, let alone participated (intentionally or unintentionally) in the culture cultivated over hundreds of years is what allowed this to happen. Sometimes it makes me feel like the world pre-1965 didn’t even exist to some people.
Because “If he’s guilty of that thought process, that makes me guilty too”, which shatters the whole I am a Good Person with No Identity Based Flaws Whatsoever 24/7 (but other people have them, of course) and can never be in a bad mood, or sometimes just act like and asshole myth that a lot of people, not just some white people, have got going on. Like, we all have our hangups.
What makes people Unpleasant People is doubling down and refusing to grow or improve ourselves, which has only ever lead to more problems.
Yeah, except no. The fact that White People like you ignore this in the zimmerman trial is part of how we as nonwhite people know y’all don’t give a fuck about us. That defense only matters when it’s a white girl against a YBM stalker. The second one of us tries to claim it, it doesn’t exist.
Also: Yes, use the case where a man gunned down a child, and was exonerated based on the law saying that his fear was something a reasonable person would have, and that a reasonable person’s fear for their safety justifies lethal violence, to say that if a reasonable person’s fear for their safety does not justify non-lethal fear of violence. The other great irony of Zimmerman is that the very law that gave him his defense, should have stripped it from him after granting it to Martin.
God damn, fuck White People. Is this really what’s happening today?
I’m thinking now that it’s probably more AG still needing Sal to actually throw the first punch for her “moral code” despite what AG said about being “within bounds to retaliate.” She can’t quite cross that line to convince herself that the throw was enough to justify attacking. I’m still taking it as a sign of hope for her salvation though, the hopeless optimist that I am.
It’s not really slang so much as a dialectical phrase that’s been around for quite some time! Its meaning is something along the lines of “fixing one’s sights on” or “making preparations to.” Examples from this page date back as far as the 1850’s: http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/27391/etymology-of-fixing-to
I guess for me slang feels like a word for something that’s a passing trend. You may be right though. To me, “fixing to” (or its shortened form “finna” which I’m pretty sure is much more recent) seems like a more regional take on “going to”/”gonna.”
“fixin’ to” is a southern/Texan expression for “about to.” “I am about to make dinner,” –> “I’m fixin’ to fix dinner.”
Sal used a little awkwardly here IMHO.
Sidenote: I have that recent Steven Universe stuck in my head and it occurs to me that Amber could really profit from mindful meditation.
(I mean, obv a lot of the cast could use some therapy, but)
here comes a thought that might alarm you
what someone said and how it harmed you
something you did that failed to be charming
things that you said are suddenly swarming
and oh, you’re losing sight, you’re losing touch
all these little things seem to matter so much
If any of the cast thinks that Ultra-Car or Dexter and Monkey Master come anywhere near close to the quality of Steven Universe, I swear to Willis I will fight them.
“fixin’ to do x or y” has actually been in use for a couple of decades now. Most commonly associated with the American South/Southwest, including African American communities there. Quite unusual to hear up North.
After the ill-fated robbery attempt, Sal was was sent by her parents to a Catholic boarding school in Tennessee, which is definitely considered to be a part of the “South”. In fact, when Sal first turned up at IU she spoke with a southern drawl (at least that’s the way I interpreted it) so it would not be unusual for her to have assimilated some of the southern idioms — such as “fixin’ to do something” — into her speech.
The “within bounds” is an interesting comment. Does her Amazi-Girl code still not allow her to strike first, without cause? Like, she used the underaged drinking a while back as cause, and Sal is Sal, her nemesis, but does she need to wait for reason to fight even her nemesis?
At any rate, you know who’s great? Marcie. Marcie is great. Marcie, keep doing what you’re doing.
This already came up with the Walmart drinking scene where she basically egged on Sal and co. to throw the first punch (honestly, you could call that fighting words and threatening violence, so no matter who threw the first punch, Amber shares some culpability). It’s a moral code thing for her, but what’s so messed up is that she’s warping the rules by stalking Sal, looking for a fight, to the point that Sal has to be afraid and has to act in self-defense at some point, so even though Sal throws the first punch, Amber initiates it. Meanwhile, even if it’s not her intent, it makes Sal look like the villain to Amber’s superhero and validates the perception of Sal as some kind of criminal when she’s mostly been staying out of trouble for years.
Yes, it’s Amazigirl’s arbitrary line so she can consider herself ‘not a criminal [like that girl is].’
But yeah, Marcie is great. I hope this doesn’t hurt her and Sal’s friendship (even impermanently, because I don’t like ‘well she should have known ___’ drama)
Marcie is awesome. And it’s worth noting that it was Marcie who defused the Walmart scene and got Sal to bail rather than being baited into a fight as well as broke up the fight between Sal and Malaya.
And yeah, that “within bounds” comment is hella interesting because it’s yet another sign of the pushing on the boundaries of her “inflexible rules” to make sure they justify violence or confrontation with Sal.
Oh, underaged drinking is technically a crime, so I get to intervene and kick her ass like I want to. And here, oh, technically you defending yourself from my stalking was you striking first, so I’m within my rights to strike you.
And I’m really hoping Amber or Amazi-girl recognize the danger in this action and gets off this train before it gets to its station.
And those aren’t all – Marcie has served the role of defusing violence so much that Sal considers her “the one who makes me stop.”
I really wonder, though, how far it’s ever gotten before Marcie chose and/or managed to put a stop to things.
She wasn’t defending herself from a stalker. She pulled down Amazi-Girl by her cape. All she had to do was acknowledge her and possibly move out of the way.
Again, you don’t need to try and lionize Sal. Hell, the fact that she’s all about fighting now when she was willing to back down before shows she’s gotten worse. She’s the one who says escalation is bad, yet that’s all she’s doing right now.
Yes, I understand why she’s doing it. She’s angry. But she’s also in less control.
Plus she’s still saying “Wonderbread” to refer to Danny after he asked her not to do it.
I agree she’s going straight for escalation when she spoke negatively about it before and that’s hypocritical, but AG is stalking her. That has been abundantly clear since this strip:
And having been through that, knowing so many people who’ve been through that, I can’t fault someone for wanting to angrily confront their stalker, especially when they are a person who has posed a physical threat before.
Like, that’s not a fault. And yes, she’s defending herself from a stalker. Moving out of the way, acknowledging her, wouldn’t stop the problem which is that she’s had an aggressive stalker following her every move for at least the last two nights.
Bingo. Amber has built up Sal as this criminal mastermind on the level of the Joker. Judging by her dialogue last strip, she 100% believes that this is their Killing Joke.
Amber you’ve become a dangerous stalker. Like look at your actions from someone elses eyes, you put on a disguise to follow a woman with intent to spy on/harass her.
Whoa, being mentioned in the same breath as Cerberus and Bagge? Now -that- is an honour.
Cerberus, Bagge, let’s celebrate by throwing pies at each other!
Fart Captor is also good. I know I often disagree with them, but they’re good nonetheless. In fact, I appreciate that I can disagree with them in a nice manner.
ischemgeek is beyond amazing, because she should spend her entire time plotting how to nuke earth from orbit instead, considering the amount of shitty people she’s had in her life.
Oh, and Mav. Just a bit below here, Mav gave Saki some context that made Saki re-examine their opinion. If that’s not good commenting, I don’t know what is.
I don’t recall IsChemGeek, I’ll have to keep an eye out for her posts. Mav does some nice posts as well as theJeff. I miss Reltik (sic) critiques on their GravRoulette. Charles P. also seems good on discussions, as well as Leorale.
I should also mentions Some1’s great short stories; the Patron of Bâtons, Just Sarge, and Disloyal Subjects quips; Kaze no uchi, kādo no kyatchā, really just the name alone, but also contributions as well.
Plus, a lot of this came from her dad’s abuse. The robbery was traumatic, definitely, but it was her father’s taunting and verbal abuse of her afterwards that triggered the hand-stabbing and worsened the problem, and it was her father who refused to get her to a decent therapist who could help her work past her trauma. Plus, a lot of Amber’s inability to handle her anger healthily (which is how the Amazi-Girl ego was born in the first place) is due to how her dad handled his anger, IE not well, and her fear of becoming like him in any way.
TL;DR Everything between Sal and Amber is almost certainly the fault of Blaine O’Malley. FUCK Blaine O’Malley.
I mean, don’t get me wrong, AG is blindingly ignorant to the situation at hand and how she comes across in this scenario. (Stalking a black person and bending the definition of the law to justify assaulting them? Wow, why does that sound familiar?) AG’s always been willfully blind to Sal’s character outside the narrow picture she’s painted in her head.
Mostly I just wanted to blame Blaine for something because he’s a fuckface and deserves it. (Been reading the Freshmen Family Weekend arc and goddamn.)
Definitely agree on a lot of this, but I definitely see Amber willingly fulfilling racist actions and racist roles without questioning it in ways that she would likely be horrified by if she were to realize the full context and optics of her actions.
So basically liberal suburban white kid racist, the type who’d never use the n-word and likes Ice Cube, but who will unironically refer to majority black neighborhoods as “dangerous neighborhoods” and who assumes that criminal types can’t be rehabilitated.
But yeah, no, definite top prize as to what fucked up Amber O’Malley is definitely Blaine O’Shitheel.
Yeah, I’m really hoping that having this confrontation be in front of so many people might give Sal the opportunity to talk just enough sense into Amazi-Girl where she can take a good step back and look at her actions. Then again, Amazi-Girl’s made a bad habit of telling herself whatever she needs to in order to justify her anger. Either way, something’s gonna happen here that permanently changes these two characters.
Man, this last chapter has just been one hell of a thing, hasn’t it.
If nothing happens here to make her see the context of her actions, I wonder if people talking about this event the next day will help with that? I’m pretty sure the rumours of the campus vigilante trying to fight / fighting a student of colour at Robin’s political rally will spread pretty fast. Maybe she’ll overhear a conversation about it, like “Oh hey did you hear the vigilante tried to beat up a black student yesterday?” “Yeah, no idea they were a racist, this is pretty disappointing” -type stuff might make her think about this…
Although of course it is possible that this won’t change anything, as she will jump to defending AG’s actions, since she thinks of her as morally superior and therefore any- and everything she does is 100% justifiable and right and good.
Actually, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. A large number of the racists I know in real life, REALLY DON’T THINK THEY’RE RACIST. However, they come at assumptions about fellow black students (I work in academia) or black culture in America in general with some pretty toxic ideas. Amber being racist would be an interesting twist because I see it AS resulting from her past experience which she’d never ever think about as being racist and would be horrified to realize in her “law and order rampage.” It’s a hard idea to swallow but her interactions with Sal colors her interactions with Walky and possibly would other black students. Certainly, it’s going to color her interactions at the DeSanto rally.
Of course she’s racist. She’s an 18 year old American kid who’s grown up in our toxic stew of prejudices and doesn’t appear to have much personal experience or the serious introspection to counter that.
No way she hasn’t absorbed and internalized some of it.
That said, I don’t see racism directly affecting her problems with Sal. Indirectly, as she doesn’t consider how societal racism will affect Sal’s interactions with law enforcement.
OTOH her comments towards Sal are tone-deaf at best, like hoping it was hard to be a Black woman with a record. She would definitely come across to Sal as racist, particularly since Sal didn’t know that she’s hated personally. My best guess is that Amber is concentrating on her own trauma and hasn’t examined her white privilege to know just how messed up she’s talking, in the context of the world.
So, uh, she’s not joining the Klan, but yeah she’s really blind to injustice that she’s perpetuating, and from which she benefits (For example, she trusts the police while her victim doesn’t, even though she’s the one endangering people and breaking the law). That’s more society’s fault than some kind of active choice, but it’s still no good at all, especially from a person who supposedly loves justice. Cut it out, Amber.
Leorale- Yeah, I’ve been noticing for awhile that it would be really hard for Sal not to read Amazi-girl as racist with all the shit she’s pulled on her. From harassing her over a nothing crime and claiming she’s just the type of over-oppressive harassing police state types that love to pull black folks over on DWBs to fixating on her criminal record and treating her as a degenerate after she saved her life and tried to check up on her, to the way she peddled back in fear at the very sight of her checking up on her…
Not to mention the Zimmerman-esque stalking she’s branched out into?
Yeah, she may not be intending to be racist or to come off as racist, but I’m betting Sal is just seeing some racist white girl who’s harassing her because she’s black and has a criminal record, same as cops have likely done to her for most of her life.
She was a little uneasy around Walky during their rooftop meetup, but I’m pretty sure that’s just because of the whole “facial similarities between twins” thing; he looks like Sal, and since Sal is a major trigger for Amber/Amazi-Girls’ trauma, some part of her subconscious had made a connection to them was trying to hammer the panic button in the back of her mind, even if she couldn’t consciously figure it out.
But yeah. it seems to be less of a race thing and more of the traumatic trigger thing.
That being said, bending the laws and definitions of self-defense to justify the stalking and assault of a black person definitely sketchy as fuck (and, sadly, not uncommon in the real world) and it is no fucking wonder that Sal thinks she’s being targeted for her race, because holy shit Amazi-Girl, do you not see how this looks from the outside. I mean, I know you don’t, but goddamn.
Fraternal twins don’t look anymore similar than any other siblings. … I can’t tell if normal people can see the similarities between siblings. I wouldn’t know my own if I didn’t know we’re related, but I may be an exception.
Amber/Amazi-Girl seems to be highly uncomfortable around people, period, and I think she went up to the roof because she needed some alone time, which is probably not the best time to interact with her. Other than that, I don’t think we have a lot of information either way on her specific opinions about people of different races (due, again, to her lack of interacting with people,) but just as Joyce has opinions about others that she picked up from her parents, I’d expect Amber to have some sort of opinions she’d picked up from Blaine.
While it’s true that fraternal twins don’t always look the same (and that their differences in appearance are actually part of the cause behind their parents’ favoritism — Walky “came out whiter,” after all) AG specifically said that something about Walky’s face set off alarm bells for her, almost certainly in relationship to his resemblance to Sal. And given Danny’s reaction to seeing Walky and Sal in a room together during the dorm party (namely “how the fuck did I miss that”) the similarities in their faces are most likely strong enough to pick up on, even if you don’t know you’re picking up on them. ESPECIALLY if one of the twins’ faces is irrevocably burned into your mind as a reminder of a truama you endured.
My previous boss had five daughters. They all had the same face.
There were differences, sure, as their age range varied about 20 years from youngest to oldest (though youngest was ~20 when I last saw her, so not a little kid) and they had different lifestyles and habits and whatever. Lots of dominant genes on their dad’s side, I guess. You could also tell their cousin was their cousin, though he didn’t bear nearly as striking a resemblance. The grandchildren all look pretty similar too (and are a mix of ages and genders)
tl;dr even if not genetically identical, I believe in nearly identical fraternal twins easy, even ignoring the few actual ‘matching’ pairs I’ve seen
I think what Charles Phipps might be getting at is that despite Amber’s personal history, there are still racial attitudes that exist in society that would make Amber stalking, trying to get revenge on, repeatedly telling a black woman with a record that she’ll always be evil and never amount to anything, while simultaneously dismissing her own shitty criminal behaviour/mediocrity that she never actually “paid her debt for” is not a good look.
I mean, she’s literally going “If I’m violent, it MUST be for a good reason because look at my life, and if she’s violent, she’s a criminal/bad seed/will always be shitty, and I don’t care about her backstory because nothing justifies that kind of behaviour”. Which obviously it doesn’t justify either of their terrible decisions, but if you look at the parallels in today’s society it seems really similar. Obviously I’m not the author of this story, but interpretations are also partly based in reader’s experiences. If you’re not aware or familiar with the parallels, it won’t seem like it to you. But if you’ve actually experienced these things, there’s a chance it might seem different.
I mean, we know why Amber has beef, but that’s also the reality of the society we live in. To completely discount it is a tad unrealistic at best.
I didn’t think of it in that larger context of societal attitudes. (as white person not living in the US I must say that no matter how hard I try to be as socially aware as I can, there will always be things that I fail to be aware of)
So yeah I see all your points, unlike my initial reaction told me, Amber’s probably not a zero on that scale, and I’ll think about context more in the future.
I can see that your thoughts would be a good chunk of Amber’s reasoning. Nobody here would be a zero on the scale. We all have our stuff that has influenced our lives – like racism, sexism, colorism, etc.
Oh I actually agree nobody would be a zero (after readjusting my evaluation of the scale)
Just to clarify; I was thinking of the scale in terms of aah “active”, I guess, racism; my zero wasn’t “has never done one racist thing in their entire life” because I do think we all have unconscious biases that have been drilled into us by media / society, that we act on without realising it, and that are very hard to get rid of. I guess I was going on intention… I didn’t give this too much thought before posting as you can see ahah.
There’s also the fact that intentions can mitigate some things, but the damage is dealt at the point of actions. And Amber’s actions have not been… great to say the least on the racial scale. And that might not be her intentions but she’s definitely done harm to Sal by repeating actions that have likely hurt her her whole life.
And I don’t think Amazi-girl is gonna be happy about that when she figures that out.
I really would love at some point for these two to have a heart to heart about everything so that Sal can explain this to AG, and so Amber can see how horrible she’s been acting, and apologize.
While typing this I thought a lot about all the crap that Sal has had to deal with and I just… I’m just overwhelmed by this feeling that Sal is so strong. I think of all the little things – and the few not-so-little things – that I’ve had to deal with on account of being bisexual and much those broke a little part of me every time, and I just have so much respect for people who have dealt with this crap their whole lives and are still standing.
(kinda went on a tangent there but I felt like writing these feelings down and where better than here honestly)
As a white straight cis male I share Saki’s lack of awareness of societal attitudes. As the cousin of a woman formerly married to an Iranian refugee I have some awareness of racism not being limited to the US. There’s quite a bit of that floating around in Europe, too.
Oh I didn’t mean to imply that racism is limited to the US by mentioning not living there, but rather that attitudes that are specific to American racist cultures are not things I have high awareness of. In Europe racism is a lot more focused on ethnicity than skin colour, and the history of discrimination is very different, and the xenophobic stereotypes informing the way people discriminate are different too. Therefore, the societal attitudes in the US are not the same as here, which is why I’m less aware of them.
I think you’re seeing a lot of stuff in Charles Phipps’s comment that simply wasn’t there. He wasn’t saying that Amber’s actions make her look racist, he was saying Amber is racist, and his comment gave no indication that there could be anything other than racism to explain Amber’s treatment/opinion of Sal. He doesn’t bring up Amber and Sal’s history at all.
Actually, I asked a question about a scale of 1-10. This comic hasn’t been afraid to ask some serious questions about characters we know and love. Amber is a girl who is trying to justify herself by targeting criminals due to her traumatic past but has been so traumatized by a past event she is stalking, harrassing, and ready to physically assault a black girl for a juvenile question. It effects her interactions with another black student and the only one she’s interacted with for another time. It’s also a political act given the circumstances.
The idea racists are some magical exceptional unicorn is an idea which prevents prejudice from being dealt with. It protects attitudes of privilege which Amber never examines. The law WILL deal with her more harshly than Sal despite BOTH being vigilante heroes. This DESPITE the fact Sal comes from a higher class family. I think Amber analyzes how her attitudes have been warped would be a good plot.
I’m not sure what you mean here. Sal’s not a vigilante hero. And I assume you mean “the law will deal with Sal more harshly”?
And I’m not at all sure that’s true. White people with mental illnesses are almost as vulnerable to police as blacks.
You asked a question about a scale of 1-10, yeah. Your comment clearly implied that you believed Amber was some level of racist. And I’m just not seeing that. I don’t see how she treated Walky any different than any other random stranger who met her when she was obviously in a bad mood.
Just because I don’t think Amber is racist doesn’t mean I believe racists don’t exist/can’t be normal people/whatever. You’re talking about Amber’s attitude/treatment of Sal and just taking it for granted that she treats all black people the same way. Is it really so hard to believe that Amber might just hold a particular grudge against the girl who traumatized her?
Yeah, it’s possible, but the thing is you’re only looking at it from Amber’s perspective and not Sals. Like another poster said, Sal has no idea who Amber is or anything about her, and it’s not unrealistic for some people’s interpretations to have a racial component to them. I dont think it would be entirely the reason, but if I was in Sal’s shoes I would definitely think there’s a racial component there.
And, AGAIN, I am not saying “Amber doesn’t LOOK racist.” I am not saying “Sal has no reason to believe Amber is racist.” I am saying, “just because Amber looks racist to Sal doesn’t mean she is.”
Charles Phipps seems to be under the impression that Amber is racist. His first comment made that clear, even if he didn’t actually say it. I feel like Charles and I are having a conversation about whether or not Amber is racist, and you want to talk about whether or not Amber LOOKS racist. Which is okay, but since you and I happen to AGREE on that point, it isn’t the conversation that I want to have.
And you know, I think it would be nice if Amber would “analyze how her attitudes have been warped” too. I just think that Amber’s “attitudes” only apply to Sal and not to black people in general.
The thing is that Sal doesn’t know that. I imagine Sal’s impression of AG’s attitudes would be that they resemble those of people who judge her for her colour and her past.
Look, I’m not saying Amber doesn’t LOOK racist. I’m not saying Sal doesn’t have a lot of good reasons to think that Amber is racist. I’m saying “appearing to be racist is not the same thing as BEING racist.”
It feels like everyone in the comments section is saying Amber is racist because she hates Sal for no reason, or that Amber is racist because she looks racist. Which is not true and very messed up.
Your tough question was not a tough question. Your reasons to claim racism involve cherrypicking things out of context to imply racism when there isn’t any.
Yes, Sal is black, and AG is going after her. Yes, Sal has a record and has paid for her crime. Yes, Amber is white.
But Amber is not going after Sal because of being black. She did not randomly choose her. She has a preexisting problem with her. If the robber was lily white, she would be going after her just as much.
Furthermore, we have not seen any racial bias in the people AG goes after. And we’ve not seen any sign that Amber has any problems interacting with black people. We’ve seen both her dialog and inner monologue, and not a racist thought to be found. Not even the really tiny kind that is really hard to talk about because people get upset if you point it out.
No, racism isn’t special. This would be valid reasoning if you replaced any other word in there. It is you (and a few other commenters) treating racism as special, acting as if you can just cherry pick things to make it.
And that is actually what makes things worse. It’s the “crying wolf” effect. If what you call racism isn’t racist, then people will assume the same in the future. So when you do want to discuss mild racism, people will assume it’s not real again.
And, just in case you think I’m some MRA/Gamergate/antifeminist/what have you, I will tell you I am often called an SJW. Or accused of White Knighting. I am nearly always on the other side, trying to help people who are upset about someone pointing out their racism that we aren’t calling them racist.
But this is just so completely wrong. AG is not being racist. Like I said below, Sal is technically being more racist with “Wonderbread,” even with the punching up stuff (because Danny asked her to stop calling him that).
What people are saying, though is that nobody is zero. To claim that, being born and raised on this planet, you don’t have any hangups whatsoever related to identity is a fallacy, simply because nobody exists in a vacuum. For example, maybe you’re a white person who doesn’t think of POC in a shitty way. That doesn’t mean you don’t benefit from society’s preoccupation with white supremacy. If you are a man who doesn’t actively put women down, you’ll still be given social priority – for example you’ll not likely be ostracized/stoned/murdered for having multiple sexual partners, for example.
I think if I and other commenters had said, “Amber sometimes says racist things”, instead of “Amber IS a racist”, people would agree more and not freak out so much about it. Too many people associate the noun Racist with extreme examples like Hitler or the Klan what have you without realizing the subtleties of it, AND they use those extremes to distance themselves from their own hangups- which like I said, everyone has.
What I was arguing was, Amber’s beef is deeply personal, yes. But, Sal does not know that. And yes, it matters, because Sal’s backstory is directly related to the way that people treat her based on her race and gender, even before the robbery. See my definition of Wonderbread below and her use of the term to describe Danny.
Additionally, Amber, being a person born and raised in America of all places, also would have been influenced by it. See her comment about being happy that, since Sal has a record, she will never get past or amount to anything. If you know anything about race and the prison system in America, you would understand why that was barb that ended up a really racist comment. So would Dorothy – caramel boyfriend, anyone? and another person mentioned Danny calling Walky “that kid from the Jungle Book.”
Everyone has their own hangups. I’m obviously not a horrible monster, but that doesn’t mean most of the clothes I and many other Americans wear weren’t made by slaves/sweatshop workers.
I’m not sure how racist she is, or perceives herself as, but she’s definitely ignorant of how racist she sounds and makes no strides to correct that so I’d say at very least 3.
Yes. you can do and say racist things without realizing it. It’s a common misconception people have. They don’t think of themselves as participating in it, therefore they do not, which is false thinking. I think people use the R(acist) word and people freak out and try to distance themselves as much as possible, therefore they almost never take the time to examine their actions and improve themselves.
Just to clarify myself now that I look at this again, especially given I’m white, so it might be different than others’ actual experience based ones, my scale is something like (pot. trigger warning)
0 – not racist, 3 – amber as described above, 5 – blue lives/all lives matter, 7 – casual racism/slur use, 9 – bigots using no pretenses, 10 – murderers, hate groups, etc
(this doesn’t include internalized racism or anything, which I can speak on even less than on this, and because I think one’d need a parallel or separate scale, and it’s irrelevant regarding amber)
Why would Amber try to correct how racist she sounds if she doesn’t KNOW how racist she sounds, like you said? Wouldn’t she need someone to point it out to her?
Look, if Amber is unaware that there is a problem, why would she take steps to correct that problem? Are you going to do research on termites if your house isn’t already infested with termites (and if you don’t have some other logical reason to research termites/aren’t the kind of person to perform research on random subjects?)
You can be unaware and still think, ‘wait, something seems wrong about this.’
I grew up under a rock, near only a white retirement town. No idea about anything to do with modern racial anything, good or bad. Then I grew up, and I changed that. Without stalking a black girl in a way that looked very inspired by recent police brutality. I might not be an expert still, and wouldn’t find it a problem for Amber to still just be trying, but still.
acknowledge that Amazigirl may not be trying even if it did occur to Amber, but there were times before they were quite this polarized that I think it would have gotten through.
Also, I don’t find it unlikely that Blaine would be racist, so there is the possibility that she’s a little more aware than we think, even if still not fully.
There’s definitely a lot of room for her actions to appear racially motivated, and I would be surprised if Sal didn’t at least suspect that was the case, but I’d say they’re pretty well explained by the PSTD, emotional trauma, and the unhealthy fixation she’s developed with Sal, who has become a focal point / scape goat of her past trauma.
Sure. But that’s irrelevant to the question of how racist is she being.
The answer to which, btw, is ‘pretty fucking darn’. I guess on a scale I’d say 8ish, with 5 as baseline racism for existing.
Like, she’s not being uniquely or unusually racist with the extra Sal has of having a record, so there’s that. Unfortunately. 6 at most there. But as far as Sal and anyone else knows, she was shitty to Sal before she knew about the record, so…
Is it really racist to be shitty to a black person for entirely personal reasons that they don’t know about? I know it might appear to Sal as if AG is targeting her completely out of the blue and thus reasonable for her to assume that race is a big part of it, but it’s not out of the blue and as far as we know race has nothing to do with Amber’s problems with Sal.
It seems to me it’s possible for it to appear to be racist to Sal and justifiably so, but for her motivations to not be racist at all – or at least down on the 1-2 unexamined biases level most of us share.
Racism isn’t an on-off switch for Amber being a terrible person. We can still like her and sympathize with her and also acknowledge the inherent racism behind telling a black woman that she’s super happy she’ll spend the rest of her life being hounded for her criminal actions as a child.
Yeah, I mean, I like Danny but he still called Walky “that kid from the Jungle Book” and thought Billie being mixed race made her even hotter.
I feel the greatest difficulty in acknowledging prejudice is trying to divorce yourself from the belief that experiencing any of it makes you a complete total scumbag. Racists are bad people, and since I am not a bad person I am obviously not racist.
PS: I’m not trying to make any judgement about thejeff here, just in case I came off as doing so.
So happy I’m not the only person that has an issue with the racial names as applied to the characters of color. Also: Damn, he really called Walky that??
I’ve mentioned before how uncomfortable I am with the racial sexualisaiton of POC. Billy being hot because she’s Asian, calling Walky a “caramel” boyfriend Dorothy happens to only want to mess around with.
Yeah – people get so defensive about it. I can freely admit as a POC that while I’m a much more mature person now as an adult, I’ve definitely made comments that were sexist, colorist, etc when I was younger, even recently in at college I’ve put my foot in my mouth. You just examine yourself, learn, move on, try not to do it again.
Mav – He calls Walky that when they have the sleepover and Walky loses his shoes to Ruth, then Dorothy has to ask Danny for some. Not sure when exactly that bit was, but not too far into the story.
This is, quite literally, the entire reason I do not use terms like ‘monster’. I do not fear ‘dehumanizing’ the Majority. The Majority will never believe itself to be less than human. It’s not a reasonable fear, and does not shape my actions.
What /does/ shape my actions, however, is the ease with which people will internalize this sort of thing as a thing Bad People do. and /that/ is a narrative I /can/ strengthen with my words. What she’s doing is a thing anyone can do. Not necessarily in this way, but anyone. It’s why you have to be careful no matter who you are.
You’re right, BUT, that still doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not Amazi-girl/Amber is actually racist or not. Not “appears to be,” but actually racist.
Also, Amber’s actions don’t HAVE to be racist to be bad. It’s still bad to be gleeful that another person is going to be hounded for criminal actions committed while a child, regardless of whether the reason for the glee is due to racism or personal petty revenge.
First, no one said either they were racist or they were fine. This would be completely shitty and weird if it were some white person instead of Sal, it would be bad if there were somehow proof that Amber could literally never be even accidentally racist due to some brain thing, it would be bad if Amber was black as well or if the situation was reversed and Sal was chasing robbery-Amber.
Second, I think that was actually pretty telling. She has no discomfort about how corrupt cops are, as long as it is hurting Sal. There was no acknowledgement even once she was out of that situation that it was ‘at least that horrible institution also hurts that criminal girl,’ it’s just ‘good, you have a record and are targeted by police.’
Plus what Spencer and Maz (and others but they’re right there and relevant) said above. Her actions do not exist in a vacuum, and not knowing does not negate racism, and you can challenge racism within yourself even if you aren’t really aware of it. There are plenty of ways, already mentioned in the comments above/below, that Amber, or Amazigirl, or Amber’s use of Amazigirl are racially tied, even if it’s not the final root of them.
Your intentions do not actually matter. If you further perpetrate the structures that hurt people based on their race, what you are doing is racist. Being a vigilante who takes a special love in targetting and terrorizing a black person is going to further those people. I’m going to, for the moment, leave off how vigilantism itself weakens the protection from the mob black people have, and focus purely on more normal structures that are fresh in memory.
The police exist, and nominally uphold the law while disproportionately targetting black and brown people in particular for that. This is a thing Amazi-girl has done. And Amber actually admitted to it. It’s true that this is because, ultimately, Sal is a trigger for her. But motives aren’t relevant, and that unfair enforcement is a specter Sal lives with.
More directly, she gloried in the fear Sal had that the police would gun her down for a record – a record that is, objectively speaking, cleaner than Amber’s is. Even if Amber weren’t Amazi-girl, that record would be cleaner – Sal committed Assault (She threatened Ethan with bodily harm), and Amber committed Battery (She attacked a completely harmless Sal with the same knife Amber used). But Amber is white. She’s allowed to hurt Black people. Now, in fairness, Sal DOESN’T know that, but WE do. And it’s upholding that structure where white kids doing things to black kids isn’t a crime, especially to not even think about it.
No, but when you keep trying to argue racism where there is none, the only reason that makes sense is that you are trying to call her horrible.
There is absolutely no sign that her hatred towards Sal has anything to do with racism. There has been no sign throughout the comic that Amber is racist.
See, this is the problem. I feel like everyone here is treating “appears to be racist” and “racist” like they are the same thing, when they obviously are not.
Look, if you saw somebody jab a pen a prone person’s throat and a bunch of blood gushing out, you might conclude that they were trying to murder the other person. But just because it looks that way doesn’t make it true. It could be a tracheotomy. Insisting that a tracheotomy (or pretty much any kind of major surgery, really) is attempted murder just because it looks like attempted murder is silly.
I disagree- basically what people are saying is that the intention doesn’t always matter – especially if you refuse to take the time to explain the misunderstanding, like Amber is doing here. Just because you didn’t know that thing you said/did was racist, doesn’t mean it wasn’t, especially for the person you directed it towards.
An emergency tracheotomy would look completely different from someone being stabbed in the neck. I don’t see how anyone could compare it to murder. Comparing someone saying a racist thing to being a murderer is hyperbole in general. I could, however, give you specific examples of a person using racism to murder another person, or put them in jail, etc.
I wasn’t comparing “saying a racist thing” to “murder,” I was making an analogy. They obviously aren’t morally equivalent, but the relationship between attempted murder and surgery is the same as the relationship between saying a racist thing and saying something that looks racist. They both can look like something they are not without the right context.
I don’t need examples of people using racism to justify murder or to put people in jail. I’m not here to defend or justify racism. I’m trying to defend Amber from people who want to isolate her treatment of Sal without considering any kind of context in order to declare her a racist. Multiple commenters look at all the bad things Amber does to Sal and say, “Look at all the bad things Amber does to that black girl, she must be racist.” And it doesn’t freaking work that way.
Look, if Amber had picked Sal at random and decided “Hey, that girl looks like a criminal, I better follow her around to make sure she doesn’t do anything wrong,” and if she had done this to LITERALLY ANYONE other than Sal who was a POC, then yeah, Amber would probably be racist, even if she didn’t realize it. That is NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE. This is Amber, following a girl who traumatized her around, waiting for Sal to do something that Amber’s twisted mind can construe as being illegal, so that Amber can swoop in and exact bloodthirsty vengeance upon, under the pretext of “justice.” Which is bad, and wrong, and very much not a nice thing to do… but it is not racist.
Nobody here has actually given a good reason for why Amber is racist. They say “just because Amber doesn’t think she is or intends to be racist doesn’t mean she’s not racist,” but that is a rebuttal to an argument that nobody is making. People say, “Well, if you look at it from Sal’s perspective, it looks awfully racist.” I agree, but just because something LOOKS racist is not evidence that it IS racist. People list all the bad things Amber does to Sal as evidence of racism, and when somebody has the nerve to point out that Sal is the ONLY PERSON that Amber does those shitty godawful things to, or that Amber and Sal have a history that might explain why Amber hates Sal with irrational, psychologically-unhealthy passion, they respond with one of the two non-sequitur remarks above.
Okay, if I understand your logic correctly (and I’ll grant that I may not have), then it follows that: If I see someone perform an emergency tracheotomy, and I think they’ve just murdered someone, then unless they explain it to me, it actually was murder.
I completely agree that it is possible do and say racist things accidentally, and without knowing. Not intending to be racist absolutely does not guarantee that you aren’t being racist. But perceiving someone’s actions to be racist also doesn’t guarantee that they are racist. It definitely is not as simple as that, either.
There has to be some criteria which separate “things that look racist, but aren’t”, and “things that are racist because of how they’re perceived”.
Oh my jesus tapdancing c hrist. If you think you’re performing a tracheotomy and instead filling the victim’s lungs with blood, then you at best are guilty of malpractice.
Which is to say: What possible relevance do you think your metaphor holds? Because what AG is doing is more like trying to commit surgery on herself by stabbing other people with scalpels. Your metaphor has a clear good you can hold up that obviously absolves you. AG doesn’t.
Oh, also:
I specified 5 is baseline racism, and that with that extra, she’s only being baseline racist – because people are really racist towards black people with a record. Amber isn’t unique. She’s just part of the long list of people glorying in Sal’s problems as a black girl with a record. A record she should have even worse than Sal, even putting aside her vigilantism (And if only by an iota).
With white exconvicts, you can generally get people to agree, at least nominally, that they have served their debt to society. And while it’s not really how people act (They tend to weight convict-status), we at least do conceive of it more (Most colorfully, a white man can be an ex-con and a Face). It’s not exactly true (Even white ex-convicts do have a devil of a time finding work, at the very least), but it’s far more true than we conceive of it for black people (Black ex-convicts are basically not seriously entertained for work, even by places that will seriously consider white ones).
In this framework, Amber is probably not particularly racist. Maybe I’m underestimating her, hence “6 at most”. But that’s not because the framework isn’t racist. It’s because she’s playing an average role in it. She’s still being really racist. It’s just that really racist is the average. The fact that she isn’t ‘driven’ by race isn’t actually relevant. If you asked most folks, they too would say the same thing. It might even be true. I just don’t really care – they’re feeding into that structure, period. Your intent is meaningless. I want you to stop doing it.
1) Some of the arguments people (honestly, not even anyone in particular) have been making have felt to me a little like people were just refusing to accept that Amber’s PTSD and other mental health issues could possibly be the enough to explain her fixation upon, and actions towards Sal. I doubt anyone actually feels that way, but the tone has been close enough to brush up against a nerve for me and probably making a little harder for me to be objective. I’m trying to compensate, but I doubt I’ve been completely successful.
2) Its also very possible that as a white person, I’ve got a previously undiscovered blind spot somewhere around here, and for obvious reasons I’m having trouble pinning it down. If that’s the case, hopefully I can at least get a better idea of what it is I’m not seeing.
That said, I feel like I agree with the majority of the points that you (Lailah, if I replied to the right comment), Maz, and Spencer have been making, but I think there must be some difference in how we’re defining / applying the word “racism” here, or else some kind of negative subtext I’m incorrectly inferring.
I know racism isn’t always the blatant, mustache-twirling “I hate brown people” kind, and I know its not even always a deliberate it even conscious thing. Not intending to be racist doesn’t mean you aren’t. I completely agree there.
Its the idea that an action could be racist simply because people perceive it to be that I’m having the hardest time with. If we were only talking about racist language, it makes perfect sense to me. Whether something is a racist thing to say is completely determined by whether people perceive it to be. Even if there were a tourist who didn’t speak much English were visiting the US, and some jackass told them that the N-word was a friendly word that they should use a lot to sound cool, the things the tourist ended up saying would be racist, even though the tourist didn’t know the actual meaning of the word they were using.
I don’t think the same definition works if you try to apply it to the question of whether a person is racist. The tourist was saying racist things, and it would be totally reasonable for people to believe the tourist is a racist, but is the tourist a racist because people think they are? Unless it turns out that the tourist would actually be totally fine using the N-word even after someone explained what it meant, and how offensive it was, I’d say no. I think we can probably agree there as well. This seems to me like it fits the general agreement that Amber isn’t actually a bad person. She no doubt engages in the same kind of ambient racism of unconscious biases and ignorant misconceptions that white kids usually pick up, and but it doesn’t make her a hateful bigot.
Unfortunately, with Amber, I think we’re mostly dealing with a third question, whether her behavior is racist. I don’t think either of the other two cases quite works enough of the time to be adequate.
If I’m mean to a black person, and people observing this think I’m acting that way because the other person is black. It isn’t unreasonable for the observers to make that assumption given the sad state of things in this country, but I’m doing it because the black person ran over my dog, or because I’m an asshole and I treat everyone like that, I don’t think that the observer’s assumptions would make it racist. I’m just not willing to say that the motives and intentions behind my actions aren’t relevant when we’re asking if that behavior is racist.
On the other hand, if I dress up as a black person for halloween, that’s definitely racist behavior. Hell, that’s probably racist even if nobody sees me to think it is. People witnessing it and finding it offensive only make it more racist. For that case, I think the same criteria for racist language apply. Definitely seems to be more nuance regarding behavior than I’d care to tackle right now.
I’m definitely not saying these are the correct definitions, or even correct at all. But they’re about what I’ve been going by, and the logic behind them.
I’m not really talking about what Amber feels in her heart of hearts. That’s… not exactly invisible to me, but it’s still not easy to divine. I’m not neurotypical, but I don’t do that, even with anxiety attacks (I’ve seen some of what I do in her, but not much.). Her heart of hearts, however, is not terribly relevant to me. I am solely talking about her actions wrt Sal. What she does about Sal reinforces racism, point blank.
Elsewhere? Probably not much? Given the cast in general, and what I said before, I’d be surprised if she registered above a 4 (For the most part, people in DoA do not intentionally act on -isms unless they are being shitty.) But wrt Sal, she is being racist. And yes, the fact that she’s sick, and that sickness is what is rather directly driving her actions, means I’m not exactly mad at her about it, as such. Unfortunately, what she does has White People run tot he comments and say what she does isn’t racist. You know, like Trikly right beneath me. And that is some bloody irritating shit.
Ah. That makes sense to me. It felt like our disagreement was mostly semantics.
Now that you mention it, I’m starting to see how I was doing that a bit myself. At the least I should have been more explicit about how Amber’s mental illness doesn’t excuse her shitty shitty behavior, it only explains it. I was definitely pre-forgiving her for her actions because I like her so much as a character, and am hoping/assuming she will correct her behavior and be making lengthy apologies in the future.
Looking at it again, I would definitely say she’s being racist. Part of me is still resisting against saying she is racist — no doubt because of the premature forgiveness — but that distinction seems clearly pedantic to me now. As much as I might want to emphasize that her racist behavior is transitory and that its exclusively directed at Sal, that doesn’t change the fact that it is racist, and I have to conceed that right now, so is Amber. 🙁
I’m also pretty sure I wasn’t fully appreciating how shitty it it was that Amber was exploiting how Sal both wouldn’t go to the police, and couldn’t count on them to help her, among other things. Even though I’m fully aware that it happens, I can definitely feel the edges of a blind spot there.
This has been very enlightening, so thank you for reading my big wall of text! I’m glad you did
Given what we’ve seen? 0. We’ve never seen a single reason to think that Amber is racist.
Not even Sal is pushing the racist angle. She seems to be aware that AG has a problem with her specifically, and not people of her race. She might have thought she was racist before, but that’s not there now.
In this particular scene, Sal is actually the more racist. She’s still using a racial nickname for Danny despite him asking her to stop. It’s not much–maybe a 1–but it’s more racist than anything we’ve seen Amber/AG do.
I get you’re never going to read this, but also, Sal has acknowledged the racial factors multiple times. There’s the bit where she calls AG ‘white girl power trip’ after being targeted repeatedly. There’s also the really obvious part where she compares AG to old white men who need a scapegoat, and AG actually confirms that that is why (and you can say AG was lying, but that doesn’t make it any less obvious that Sal would be seeing her as ‘that racist ‘superhero”)
But again, yes, thank you for pointing out that reverse racism! wow! Sal really is the bad guy, how dare she stick it to the whites!
Definitely not the kind of backup I want Sal to have… the enemy of my enemy is the enemy of my enemy.
I’m certain the sign guys would be smart enough not to get involved, but they might find watching whatever happens to be rather satisfying.
So far this beef(no not the person named Beef) between them went like this:
Sal:”What’s your problem with me?”
AG:”I hate you because I hate you.”
I do hope either Sal remembers or Amber says what happened years ago in that store.
I think you mean “how damaged Amber became after being raised by an abusive father.” Even the principle traumatic part of the robbery was Amber’s dad’s emotional abuse toward her for her reaction to Sal, not Sal. AmaziGirl is Amber’s way of trying to prove her dad wrong, prove that she can stand up to that thief in the store.
That’s not to say that Sal is blameless for committing an act of violence–violence be violent and blamable. But bad things happens to almost everyone, and how Amber deals with the badness is much more about her dad than about Sal.
This. AG is Amber’s way of trying to make Amber feel a sense of worth. I personally thin the “helping others” thing was a way for her to justify her unhealthy coping mechanism – she’s so distracted every time she sees Sal because of all that history, it’s like everything else goes out the window. She didn’t come to protect the rally. She came to see Sal.
Dittoing Mav’s this. Cause yeah, Blaine is so very much the villain of this piece and it is very much his hounding on her when she was so fresh off of trauma that really led to this first split between her alters and the corresponding mythology she built around that.
That’s a good point. Blaine basically is to blame for Amber’s fixation on Sal. She wasn’t “strong enough” to fight back against her and protect her best friend.
It explains why Amazi-Girl seems to intent on getting Sal to attack her. She needs to prove that now, she’s strong enough to defend herself.
Yep. It’s definitely a sarcastic racial insult disguised as a casual term. it implies a middle class, (usually) from the suburbs, boring and out of touch white person. The name itself because Wonderbread is a type of white bread, but also really plain. The racial dynamics behind it are an interesting discussion. I myself would never address anyone by a racial (or any other -ist) name, though. I know the pain of that too well.
Yeaaaaaah, there’s no such thing as racism against white people qua white people There are folks with light skin who we’re racist towards, but not as part of their association with white people (F’rex, Turkish or Jewish people. Or for that matter, East Asians). We exalt white people too much for that as a society. ‘Whitebread’ isn’t painful. Hell, ‘honkie’ isn’t. You don’t know the pain of it, if you think it is painful.
Like, in a different universe, whitebread could be a racist insult, but in the one that actually exists, you’re wasting your digital breath.
No, I’m not saying that systemic racism against white people doesn’t exist. I’m saying that literally, if someone were to call you Wonderbread or something like it, it’s probably because you’re white – does that not make sense? And then I just said, this is what it means. That’s all. That, and I don’t typically enjoy calling people names based on their identity. I am aware of systemic racism and the power of words that those higher up on the social hierarchy have that those lower than them don’t.
And I say I know the pain of it, because I have been called names based on my black femaleness, and just for being myself by other people. At the very least it’s an unpleasant experience, at the very most (a white person calling or treating a POC that way) it perpetuates shitty standards. And there are nuances to it, too, for example Anti-blackness in the DR, where many of the people there have black ancestors, immediate family members, etc. and yet they still kick out Haitian Dominicans for being less than etc.
But that’s where a lot of the pain comes from. There’s plenty of insults based on association that more just come off silly (Like clown). The pain of a racist insult is in that racism and the association with it. There isn’t racism against white people, so there isn’t pain in that.
Jewish people aren’t exactly white. Since about the 1970s in the US we’ve been considered white or close-enough-to-white; we get to be considered conditionally white, only as long as everything is going well.
We’re Semitic, and anti-Semitism is absolutely a thing.
It really seems to be back sliding to me. But that might just be because Jewish people seem to be the favored target of video game nerds, and aside from that the folks I’m most concerned about treat jewish people as subhuman in their myths (Rapture theology). Still, to my limited view, if anything it seems y’all are losing your provisional whiteness.
I’m siding with Mav on this. She was careful not to call it ‘racist’, but rather ‘racial’, which it is. It is targeted at a specific race. She went on to explain that, given how much it hurts her, she feels uncomfortable doing it to someone else even if it lacks the power of having an unjust power structure behind it. I feel that she navigated that topic rather tactfully.
Hell, I don’t feel comfortable with any pejoratives. I feel like all they do is allow us to dehumanize people. While racist, sexist and classist pejoratives dehumanize people on a demographic level, other pejoratives dehumanize people on an individual level. Mike is an asshole. Mary is a ‘bongo’. Ross is Toe-Dad or Butthole-Dad. Carol is a fundie. We stop imagining them complexly and contextualize their behavior through that singular idea of what we think they are.
Amber/AG is violent, reckless and now is stalking and harassing an innocent black woman around campus. How many of us see her as sympathetic? We imagine her as a product of a traumatic upbringing and a toxic culture. We understand that her behavior is harmful and has to stop, but we see her condition as tragic, not wicked.
Mary is judgemental, manipulative and transphobic. How many of us see her as sympathetic? Anyone? Show of hands. And how many of us see her as a ‘bongo’? How many of us are looking forward to seeing the ‘bongo’ get what’s coming to her? Why? Is Mary not the product of her upbringing and a toxic culture? Is a transphobic comment to Carla worse than stalking and harassing Sal about her criminal record? Was blackmailing Ruth worse than AG beating the shit out of anyone when she thinks she has a legal defense for doing so? I don’t think so. I think we got to see Amber as sympathetic first. We didn’t ever get that with Mary so she got the ‘bongo’ label and now we cheer when she gets a custard to the face.
By any objective metric, Amber has done far worse than Mary. Even if we accept that the whole concept of Amazi-Girl is okay as a wacky fantasy superhero thing where she beats up random mooks who have no family, friends, connections, personality or any agency, all of her behaviour against Sal has been, flatly, criminal.
Mary’s been a bigoted shithead. This is terrible, but it’s not as bad as stalking and assault, it’s just that we’ve followed Amber for years. We know what makes her tick. We have context that shapes Amber’s character and why she does things. Mary does not. Mary shows up and is soundly defeated in the most awesome way possible by Carla, because Mary is an attachment to Carla’s story.
If Amber got her ass kicked and she started crying while Sal made out with Danny right in front her and Ethan told her that Joyce was a better fake girlfriend than she ever was, we probably wouldn’t be cheering.
Even Ruth, at her worst, still had moments of humanity liberally sprinkled in, but Mary is just A Bongo, and thus there’s no reason to interpret her in any sympathetic light.
Well, it’s true that Mary’s hasn’t done as much bad as Amber… But it’s also true that she hasn’t done as much good as Amber either. And she hasn’t had as much awful shit happen to her either.
Basically, I agree with you, Mary is a much more one-dimensional villain than Amber (if you consider Amber to be a villain; I do, for this section of the story, at least).
I see her as sympathetic because she is sick. This, too, is in many ways intersectionality. Without that, I would have absolutely no sympathy in regards to her declaring nemesis on Sal (Though it would still be tragic just what Blaine did to her). I do not want Sal to beat her, but this is not really influenced by that pity – I did not want Mary beaten either.
If Carla had been violent, I really doubt I would support what happened to Mary. At least with Toedad and Blaine, right up until catharsis went too far, I could see violence as justified. Mary said shitty things and was then embarrassed. Why is this even up for comparison?
Also, Spencer, Mary is merely a supporting character in many stories, and we have gotten some idea of what makes her tick. It’s just that it’s vile.
I feel there would be a difference compared to, say, Danny calling her Caramel Girl, but you’re right that Sal calls him that because he’s white and boring.
Well, it’ll go well for a particular type of image. I’m not sure she wants to become that type of poster girl though. Especially since the comforting myth Amazi-girl uses to power herself is that she’s the champion of the underdogs.
Well, that’s the comforting myth of a lot of the creepier conservative movement. They’ve just somehow convinced themselves that straight white Christian males are the underdogs.
In all seriousness, though, Amber is going full Ahab now, and that’s not good for anyone involved. She needs to stop, back off, and take a good hard look at what she’s doing.
That last panel seems to indicate she isn’t going to actually do anything and just leave, which would be good. But the fact that it’s a last panel makes me fear that next strip something is going to go horribly wrong and everything will spiral out of control.
Are we going to find out someday that the reason Sal is always wearing gloves is because that wound to the hand Amber gave her years ago got infected and left a really really nasty scar? ‘Cause I can totally see that having happened.
So, will AG attack, or won’t she? That is the question.
There is no clear answer to that until the next strip, but I have a feeling that she won’t.
Why do I think that?
Remember this strip? Remember how AG basically states that she is stopping -Amber- from attacking Sal? Now, I know that AG did attempt to attack Sal once before that, but a lot of things happened between then and the strip I am linking to.
Now, the thing about AG on the roof… First of all, she is meant to be in control. Excactly how much control she actually is in is rather doubtable, but she is in enough control to not actually stab Sal; something she does not trust Amber to be.
And this control, fragile as it may seem ss why she’s been -stalking- Sal rather than outright -attacking- her these last couple of days. It’s why she is not just going for Sal right away after getting up now. Heck, she even invoked a “hero code” thing to justify going after Sal in panel 3… But then she stopped. Something is holding her back.
Why is she not yet attacking? She usually has no problem with attacking. I think it is because she’s still struggling with the fact that Sal is no longer a threat, no longer a villain. She -clearly- hasn’t fully accepted this, but if she truly thought Sal was completely Bad, she would not have hesitated going in for the attack, the way she goes after robbers and sexual harassers and kidnapping toedads.
But then again, why is it that she still has such a grief with Sal? Well, grief is probably the exact word here. She’s been angry at Sal for five years now, waiting to finally get the full payback for what she thinks Sal turned her into: A complete and utter mess with severe psychological issues. And while we (the audience) know that the blame was mostly Blaine’s, but Sal was heavily involved in that incident nonetheless, and it’s been impossible to Amber/AG to let go of that part.
Except that Sal has not been following the script that AG made up in her mind. Sal the university student is a -very- different person from Sal the juvenile robber. Sal rescued AG. Sal helped Amber with the spilled laundry.
So, the anger issue that’s been seething for five years… Well, now they will not -ever- be “resolved” the way AG imagined them to be. So now she is instead upset with Sal for denying her this. No longer will her anger serve a “purpouse”.
So far, so horribly, horribly depressing. Is there any hope at all?
Possibly. I said yesterday that I think AG/Amber will most likely be hitting rock bottom before she eventually can start getting better. What I did not realise then but today’s strip has made clearer for me, is that she might just be doing that -right now-! If I’m not completely miiiiles off the mark, this anger and grief and feeling of loss might be the start of the turning point. I don’t think she can get much lower than this.
Of course, now that I have said all this, I think it’s a safe bet that tomorrow’s strip will prove me wrong and have AG attack Sal. Because that happens a lot when I try to predict things in this comic. If ever you need proof that I often hold a rectal speech when trying to analyse DoA, just check for whenever I have made other predictions. All of them have been wrong.
*Interestingly enough, the comic is tagged with Amazi-Girl, not Amber.
I’m really hoping that’s the strain of the Amber alter fighting her way back and trying to throw the brakes on the runaway train that has been Amazi-girl’s descent into no-good badness.
I do think that last panel looks like Amber. It’s like the episode of ATLA where Uncle yells at Zuko because he’s trying to get him to not be obsessed with the Avatar so much, who he (Zuko) sees as both the progenitor and solution to all his problems. He yells:”[So you capture the Avatar.] AND THEN WHAT!?”
He tries to get him to do some self examination, why his father rejecting him may have been the best thing that ever happened because becoming his monstrous father is not a good path. His father’s approval is not the be all end all of his life.
And, letting go of his father is what allows him to become the person that he suppressed inside because he feels his true, goofy, emotional, empathetic, impatient, etc. self is not worth anything.
Yeah, and I think Amber/AG breaking out of this assumption that she’s destined to become her father thus she must protect his image from the full blame of his monstrous actions is gonna be the big piece of her healing from that and truly escaping the long shadow of his abuse.
Indeed, but it is a good sign that when given exactly what she wants, for Sal to hit her first and demand she fight her, she’s hesitating and starting to cry.
It’s contradictory to everything we know about how Amber processes her hatred for Sal, and that’s a really good thing.
What’s the worst about long-term abusive parents like this is how the damage they do tends to linger so long after their casual cruelty is out of the picture. Like you can escape them, move thousands of miles, but part of them is crawled into your old survival mechanisms just waiting to come out and bite you when you least want them to.
It’s what makes Blaine’s actions even more monstrous than just his physical actions against his daughter and wife.
I already wrote another long novel of a comment, so I’ll just say this, Cerberus (practically everything else I’d write would just be variants of the same theme):
That, and the fact that to cap it off, he poisoned Amber against the idea of getting the therapy she needs to undo the damage he’s done, are why Blaine is the one character I truly hate.
Even Ross I can at least feel pity for (not that he isn’t still a colossal butthole). But Blaine can just rot in hell.
Yeah, Ross won Shittiest Parent award fair and square with the gun (and that was even before we knew of Bonnie’s suicide), but Blaine is doing his VERY BEST to close the distance.
The fact that losing Bonnie seemed to be sincerely painful for him is about the only reason I only loathe him. He has the capacity to actually care about someone. If something knocked a few of his horrifying beliefs loose, its theoretically possible he could resemble a human being. I’ve no hope something like that will ever happen, but that same faith will also prevent him from ever truly being happy, since his life has already veered off of the very narrow path that would have allowed that. So I only feel pity and disgust.
For Blaine, though? Other people are simply tools. Their value is exclusively based on their utility to him. His actions are justified because they’re his actions. I can’t picture him ever feeling the slightest bit of remorse.
Me, I think it’s the fact that Ross is so mired and trapped in his own horrible beliefs, that he will gladly and willingly suffer for them, even die for them. So steeped in his toxic beliefs, he’ll hurt himself along with others.
Blaine would never do that. Blaine is always looking out for number one, which is Blaine. Always.
I still don’t feel much pity for Ross, but I can see why other people would.
Can fucking confirm.
I think it may have been hanging out in the DoA comments that made me notice how fucked up systematic physical and verbal abuse is.
And it’s also one of the places that has taught me how most systematic oppression is actually mostly found in the “small” things that happens every single day, and that the oppressed can never escape from.
DoA and its comment field has made me try to do better as a human. That is not an understatement. I owe Willis and many commenters here (too many to name them all, but I think you know who you are) soooo much!
If anyone’s to bow any heads, it should me me bowing to you (and others) who has had to deal with so much stupid bullshit from bigoted morons in real life that I cannot even begin to start contemplating it.
I will accept that it is not a bad thing to have learned my lesson. But please, no gestures in deference, that just feels wrong in this situation. If you wish, gestures based on respect as equals are OK.
And I’m lucky and privileged enough not to have much personal experience with the kind of shittiness explored here, but i know from personal experience how hard it is to learn to see structures – especially when you benefit from them.
So here’s to helping each other to be better people!
Yeah, I figured that where you live, you wouldn’t be quite so exposed to shitty shittery as others are. Almost like it’s more accepted to be who you are.
To helping each other!
Also, here is to (Fart Captor be damned) farts flying free in nature, just like Lesbian God intended!
I thought that, too, when I first read it! Sal sounds like Blaine here, challenging Amber to put her money where her mouth is and follow through with her violent/revenge impulses.
On the interesting side no matter how much is resolved in this encounter Sal is going to be associated with Amazi-Girl and people are going to start asking questions.
On the bright side, maybe this will once and for all stop Billie from saying Sal is AmaziGirl (I am assuming people are taking and uploading pictures right now).
She might assume it’s a public ploy by Sal and an accomplice as a precaution since Billie “figured it out.”
I hope things turn out bloodless enough for that to be a remotely reasonable conclusion to draw.
Now would be a really good time for Robin to show up and be all “Oh sweet cosplay! Let’s get a photo!” or something equally weird that would leave Sal and AG too flabbergasted to remember what they were doing.
Panels 1 and 2: Oh, fuck. Now Amazi-girl has more fuel for her paranoid delusion that Sal “stole” Danny away and tried to kill the AG alter rather than herself tanking said relationship out of paranoia and fear.
And thus more justification to cross lines she really shouldn’t be crossing. I’m hoping the Amber alter is somewhere back there and not just listening to the ghost of Blaine calling her useless. Cause AG doesn’t actually want to keep going down this road and slipping deeper into the morass.
Panel 3: Oh, fuck, that look of panic on Marcie’s face as she tries desperately to de-escalate this. She knows.
She knows that Sal is black in a “family values” crowd facing off with a white girl. That her fellow security officers are not 100% guaranteed to have the wherewithal to refrain from attacking Sal as a “threat to their fellow officer and this heroic crimefighter what’s in the papers”. That Sal has a tendency to bite off more than she can chew and get into fights she really does not need to be getting in.
She seems as scared for Sal as I’ve been ever since she did the totally normal and reasonable thing of confronting her dangerous white stalker. Because the reality we live in, a black person who does that is rarely safe.
Huh.
Marcie does look scared.
Weird how it’s so easy to overlook someone so expressive just because they aren’t talking. That must get frustrating for mute folks.
You know what I think? I think that Sal couldn’t have done more to confirm in Amber’s mind that she’s the villain of the piece. I don’t know what has got Sal so riled up; normally she’s not as emotional and defensive of this. Maybe Billie’s bad turn has left her on edge.
The thing is… I really think that Amazi-Girl is in two minds whether to attack. She’s rational enough to see a trap when it’s presented to her.
Sal’s been getting stalked by a psycho white girl who always speaks to her with utmost contempt.
That’d put most folks on edge even without their roommate and childhood friend/acquaintance having possibly had some kind of breakdown recently.
Amazi-Girl, crazy person in a superhero costume, invades the venue and attacks an attendee for no reason anyone can see. That’s a good way to end up being dogpiled by security and ending up in a cell for causing a public disturbance.
Ah. That’s not so much a trap as a really bad idea. Calling it a trap made me think you were saying Sal had planned this somehow.
She definitely can’t seem to bring herself to do it when Sal’s not being an active aggressor. I’m not sure how much reason is involved at this point, though.
I think that the cause of the hesitation is significant. I think that Amber has just can’t make herself hate any more. Danny was her last prop of strength and without it, I think she just wants to crawl into a corner and vanish. Realising that Sal sees her as the bad guy is probably the last straw.
It would be a trap in Amber’s mind. Remember, her delusion of Sal is a kind of bizarre merger of Poison Ivy, The Joker and Ra’s al-Ghul in biker leathers.
Sal is saying “COME AT ME!”
I think Amazi-Girl might be assuming that that’s an obvious trap to lure her into a disadvantageous position, like “attacking someone at a political rally while guards are on the way” and overlooking the possibility that “beaten to a pulp” is a pretty disadvantagous state that Sal can put her into.
Oh son of a bongo this isn’t going to end well for either of them. Well that OR they both stay a night in the drunk tank and learn a little bit about one another. Aside from the patreon members and Willis who’s to know?
I hope AG is about to have a breakthrough and back off: but I can’t help but think that before she gets the chance to something else is going to happen – like the security guards arriving.
And I don’t think that will be good news.
Panel 3 continued: And oh, oh Amazi-girl, no… stop. Stop expanding the loose and bullshit justifications to keep attacking Sal. Stop trying to make it fit into your “rules” and your inflexibility, because every time you become a worse person. Like, deciding that underaged drinking was a “crime” you cared about because it let you attack Sal lead you to becoming that type of moral scold that’s no fun at parties.
And deciding that saving your life was “violence perpetrated upon you” was largely responsible for that last fight with your ex going in such a horrible abusive direction.
You do not want to even begin entertaining the vile Zimmerman style defense of “you negatively responding to my long-term stalking of you is actually proof that you are dangerous and violent” or this sort of first-grader technicality of who did what first.
That’s a line you fundamentally do not want to cross.
Panel 7: Oh, man, this feels so heartbreaking. Sal is so done. Being stalked, being racially harassed (because Amazi-girl’s intentions doesn’t change what framework her actions have been fitting and feeling like for Sal), being treated as the Joker in someone else’s Batman fantasy.
This isn’t just now. This isn’t just Amazi-girl. This feels like a lifetime accumulation of every “random” stop, of every casual harassment, of every time being treated as a potential thief in stores, of 18 years of microaggressions that she’s just done casually accepting.
It just feels so self-destructively resigned like, ya know what, yes, fight me, because that? That I can fight back against. That I have a chance to win at least temporarily.
Panel 8: Oh man… I want to read so so much into this little wobble. Cause, being DID, I’ve been there before where I gave too much power to a golden alter and nearly paid a price higher than I could afford. It lead to a bad place in middle school and so seeing Amber/AG on this precipice, I want to believe that a similar sort of thing that happened for me will happen for her. That her other alter will find her strength and is pushing back against AG’s grabs for greater control and time (to justify the great mission of stalking Sal) and continued pushes into not-good land.
That this is a sign of Amber fighting back, wrestling control, seeing this for the fucked up path she doesn’t want to go down that it is.
That this, loosely justifying attacking the random black girl she’s been stalking because she reacted “poorly” like some penny ante Breitbart stalker, is not a line she wants to cross. And that maybe she might even recognize what she’s been starting to become or just eerily emulate in her zeal to make everything fit this black-and-white fantasy her abusive dad saddled her with.
Or better yet, that Amazi-girl will be allowed to cry, to show weakness, to have access to all the emotions instead of the false “clarity” of strangling all emotions other than rage and “grit”. To allow these disparate alters to integrate and communicate so that Amber is no longer just viewed as the “worthlessness” that the golden Amazi-girl has to save Amber from for her own good.
That Amber/AG can in so many ways truly see where she is and start the long road to recovery.
I don’t think I’ll be so lucky. And it’s very likely she may decide to strike anyways or Marcie’s fellow officers will break it up before she can do anything, but my heart has been screaming for Amazi-girl to get off her path, so I’ll nonetheless let myself hope, at least for a moment.
That way that hope can be even more thoroughly destroyed by Willis’s merciless Hope Smasher in the comics to be.
I think that it’s worth remembering that Sal isn’t some ‘random black girl’ to Amazi-Girl. She’s the distillation of evil in biker leathers. I doubt race comes much into it; Sal is the skin around such a strong archetype in Amber’s battered mind that I don’t think it would matter in the slightest what she looks like.
Of course, the big problem is that Sal isn’t that person at all. Amazi-Girl is trying to fight an amalgam of traumas, abuse and self-esteem issues that her mind has given Sal’s outward form due to one breaking-point incident about five or so years back. The problem is that only she is really aware of this but she isn’t able to admit it to herself, so she’s becoming more and more detached from objectively-perceptible reality as she creates more and more elaborate paranoid fantasies to explain the difference between her perceptions and other people’s perceptions.
For some reason though, here and now, that shield of delusion seems to be failing her.
The thing is that everyone keeps thinking Amazi-Girl is the Gollum not the Smeagol here versus the Amber. I mention racism as a motivator but that’s only in the context Amazi-Girl is seeing a murderous thug versus who Sal is today. I think she’s a 3-4 on the scale. Unintentionally blind to all her privilege, law and order, and fears.
I think AMBER wants to hurt/kill Sal.
Amazi-Girl is who Amber wants to be and knows this is wrong. She said so on the rooftop.
It’s just Amber keeps pushing Amazi-Girl to want to believe it’s the right thing to do to get Sal to attack her so she can kill her. Which is, again, very very racially charged actions I’ve seen on my campuses.
I think that Amber tells herself that she wants to hurt or kill Sal because Amber is telling herself and desperately trying to believe that she’s irredeemably evil. I suspect that, what we’re seeing here is the sudden realisation that, in the moment of decision, she’s found that doesn’t have that in her at all.
Oh, she has anger management issues; there’s no doubt about that. However, except when confronting her father, I’ve never seen any indication that she is capable of losing control to the extent that she could kill someone.
That’s what I am kinda reading in this. That she’s trying to create a mythology where one alter is worthless, just an accumulation of awfulness that the golden alter will save her from, representing all that is good.
Cause that’s a mistake I made when I was younger. And that lead me to not seeing all the good in that “scary” alter and not seeing all the bad in that “golden” alter. And I see that in Amber/AG.
Like, Amber’s compassion, hesitation, inflexibility, and ability to cry and know what it’s like to be scared and helpless are all positive traits that will aid Amazi-girl when Amber/AG stops thinking that AG is defined by the ways in which she doesn’t have any of the traits of Amber*.
*Which in a way is similar to the problems of toxic masculinity. When what it means to be a man is avoidance of any trait that can be perceived as feminine, that typically leads to bad roads.
Like, Amber has homicidal ideation towards Sal and panic attacks that shut her down. But Amazi-girl is just as poisoned by those automatic responses to Sal and her need to view Sal as the comic book villain who is personally responsible for Amber/AG’s first fracturing has lead her to finding any excuse to initiate violence, just now with the smug assumption that she’s “clean” because she’s dumped the homicidal ideation on Amber.
Apropos of totally nothing, Cerberus, I’ve been wanting to tell you that when I come to read the comic, I also specifically scroll down to see if you’ve commented.
I don’t always agree with your analyses, but they are insightful and thought-provoking 100% of the time. Thank you for the effort and the sharing.
She doesn’t really want to fight, she just wants confrontation. A chance to confront the thing that’s been haunting and tormenting her for years, she would have put up the mask a while ago if it meat moving on from that part of her past but it’s pretty damn near impossible to let go when the physical manifestation of that past walks past your bedroom door every morning.
I *think* what is going to happen is that Sal is going to be “defeated” because “the public comes to Amazi-Girls aid”. Then, when Amazi-Girl is celebrating, she’s going to hear somebody say some READ BAD SHIT.
Sal, stop, you are being a terrible friend right now! Marcie is working security, what are you thinking putting her in a position like this? This could be a breaking point for the one friendship she is leaning so heavily on.
Also really hoping this is the moment Sal figures out what her history with Amber/Amazagirl is.
Combine that with the other type of strap-on and you’d have a Slipshine. A much better one than the (not going to ever ever happen) one involving this strip’s characters that some commentors love to clamor for.)
Amber starting to cry and hesitate is too specific a character beat for it not to be massively significant.
I am, particularly, really glad that she’s still capable of showing restraint even when she has everything she needs to be morally justified in attacking Sal.
I’m pretty sure the reason she’s hesitating is because she realized she’s NOT morally justified in attacking (or stalking) Sal, no matter how hard she tried to convince herself otherwise.
She’s morally justified according to her own rules. Sal hit her first, so that means Sal is definitely the Vile Criminal Scum and Amber can unload righteous vengeance upon her.
But she’s getting less tense. Her eyes are widening, her posture is straightening out. It ends with her crying. She has what she thinks she wants, to fight someone she doesn’t consider human, and she’s not taking it.
I dunno, I’m with pjeseb. I think she’s hesitating because she’s realizing she’s wrong and what she’s doing isn’t justified. Sal has put up with her literally stalking her and becoming an unwarranted source of stress in Sal’s life. Sal only flipped her because she got sick of it and snapped, which is really justified IMO. Amber saying ‘Sal struck first so I can hit her.’ is about as logical as a dude that’s been stalking a chick and the chick hitting him (because she snaps) saying, ‘Well she hit me first so it’s okay if I retaliate.’ I’ve been stalked before and if I were a braver and stronger person, Lord knows there were times I wanted to scream and lash out at the guy who had a habit of showing up EVERYWHERE I went. Sal is a stronger and braver person, she’s been patient dealing with her stalker until now but now she’s at the breaking point and just wants to fight so AG will leave her alone. I think AG is understanding that from what Sal said about her having it out for Sal. Plus she probably feels conflicted since Sal is echoing Blaine’s words.
I hadn’t considered how Sal demanding she fight her echoing Blaine. That is actually a really good theory.
Amber has done a lot of wrong shit to Sal, but she feels justified in all of it because Sal “took” Amber’s sanity, Amazi-Girl’s dignity, and their Danny. She doesn’t feel bad stalking Sal because all she’s doing is making sure the Violent Criminal Scum can be properly fought once she inevitably commits some dastardly act of violence that she will inevitably fall to
She has and she thinks she should, but I think Sal not falling into the Violent Criminal Scum role is throwing her. That’s where the doubts are coming from.
Doubts. A weakness to Amazi-Girl. She needs to purge them. Send all the doubts and weakness to Amber. Amazi-Girl is pure and righteous.
Well, technically right now Sal is being the Violent Criminal Scum in Amazi-Girl Logic, because Sal struck first while Amazi-Girl was “just making sure” Sal wasn’t up to something.
I personally like to believe it’s just Amber hesitating because she’s subconsciously recognizing how inherently wrong all of this is, but the idea of being called upon to prove her mettle the way Blaine did earlier, I like that too.
The robbery (and, more importantly, Amber being unable to protect Ethan from Sal’s ad-hoc attempt at escalation) was mostly the final straw in the breaking of Amber’s psyche.
The thing about Sal and Amber that I consider ironic and more than a little sad is the fact that the fateful night of the convenience store job was the final straw for both of their lives in different ways. I suspect that if they were both able to look beyond their anger and pain, they’d realise that they’re more alike than they realise and that any differences between them are simply due to their coping strategies rather than anything more fundamental.
I was trying to pinpoint why Amazi-Girl is getting all shakey looking and then I realized: Sal’s egging her on is very much Blaine. Perhaps this is getting to her, considering the last time she met up with Blaine and the result.
I just noticed it after reading your comment, because I think it’s unintentional, given that the hearts-in-eyes symbol thing hasn’t been used very much by Willis at all up to this point.
I’m pretty sure you’ve got that backwards. As hard as she is on herself, i’m convinced that Amber has always been the good one.
Amazi-Girl was supposed to be able to handle the stuff Amber couldn’t, but dealing exclusively with the things that freak her out has not had a great effect on AG. Amber is the one who feels ashamed of every angry outburst, and who keeps collecting red flashback panels each time. She’s even frightened by how much she enjoyed hitting her father, and he sure as hell deserved it
That’s iffy, FartCaptor. AG is getting worse, but she’s always held to her code, always held back from more than bruises and concussions, and at least believes she’s helping people.
Amber, OTOH, is saddled with her father’s violent rages. It’s Amber who stabbed Sal in the hand. Amber always tries to let AG do her fighting – because, when Amber fights, she flies into a rage, and holds nothing back. She’s far more likely to do serious damage to an opponent than AG.
Amber isn’t the one stalking or threatening Sal. She has had a panic attack every time she’s had to interact with Sal as Amber. Amazi-Girl is the one running around beating people up, because the whole reason she exists is act as an outlet for the feelings Amber is afraid of.
If you go back and look, a lot of those rage-y moments are even tagged Amazi-Girl.
Except that’s not really true. That’s how Amber thinks about it. Amber tries to push all the bad stuff onto Amber and keeps AG righteous, but as Fart Captor said, it’s AG who’s been stalking Sal. It’s AG who tried to provoke a fight earlier. It’s AG who broke up with Danny for talking to Sal.
Amber has that rage and can’t control it, so she usually hands it to AG to channel it into righteous fury, but when it’s too personal she can’t. Which does bode ill for this fight.
But other than that, I don’t see any reason to think Amber’s a psychopath. Other than when dealing with her abuser and her trigger, that persona’s shown very few signs of hate and anger. Most of her interaction with Dina’s been as Amber and that’s been nice and helpful. When she’s interacted with Danny as Amber, little of it has shown problems – she snapped at him once and immediately apologized and berated herself. The Amber persona definitely has anger issues and a serious self-esteem problem – made worse by how she’s disassociating, but no signs of anything like psychopathy.
Overall though, AG’s been getting more distinct, more dangerous and creepier – particularly with Sal, but even with her recent broad daylight attack on the pursesnatcher. She may be more controlled, but she’s also getting stricter on her rules (partly so she can justify attacks on Sal) and harsher when she does so.
Yeah, Amber is influencing Amazi-Girl. Amazi-Girl thinks she can keep all of the evil bottled up in the monstrous little nerd girl but she can’t and it’s warping her good side.
Yes, Amber is just one bottle of acid away from being Two Face.
I also think Amber in the final panel is angry at Sal who refuses to act the way she wants. Students are a cowardly and superstitious lot but Sal is neither.
Just as AG tenses to attack, Beef grabs her from behind, wrestles her to the ground. Apparently he’s also a security intern, plainclothes.
Sal: HEY! Ah was gonna –
*Marcie pulls on her arm*
Sal: Yeah, all right, ah’m stoppin’…
(Marcie leads Sal away as Beef pulls AG away, still struggling. Marcie and Beef both look back at each other. Marcie give ‘thumbs up’, Beef grunts back.)
I think I might have a new crack ship – Marcie/Beef. I call them ‘More Than Words’. Opinions welcome!
The last panel is AG about to crack. “Come on, attack” is an echo of Blaine berating Amber for not attacking Sal. So who is the nemesis here? Blaine or Sal? Depends who is in charge of that body right now. Sal might be Amber’s nemesis, but AG exists in response to Blaine. Will AG refuse to act on Blaine’s commands or will Amber give in and appease her abusive sperm donor.
My guess is that no blows get thrown. AG leaves the scene and Sal gets in trouble for being black. No fight. No resolution either. The drama continues.
I think this is my second comment on this site, but after reading some of the discussions, I want to chime in with a story.
I once knew a guy who ran a dispensary (before it was legal) and one day he was robbed. From what I remember him telling me, a couple of black guys on something came into his store and robbed him point blank with guns. Obviously he was traumatized after this. I only knew him after this happened, but he used this event to justify being racist, and this isn’t me inferring, this is him literally saying that he was scared of/hated black people because one had a gun in his face and he almost died.
Despite this, I’m pretty sure he was still friends with the black guy who was in the fraternity he founded before. I’m also sure that if the men had been Jews dressed up in full Hasidic attire, he still would have spent time with the fraternity (he wasn’t Jewish but the fraternity he founded was and more than half of us were Jewish) and not had the same response to Jews.
Now I’m not criticizing him for having PTSD or triggers (both are understandable). I tell this story because its very similar to what Amber went through. The number of people saying Amber isn’t racist or isn’t doing this because of race and just hates Sal are forgetting that Sal is black and that was literally all Amber knew about her.
I know its a contentious issue, but this comic has pointed out that not all racists twirl their cartoon mustaches. Is Amber going to go around attacking every person of color? I doubt it. Is it probably coloring her responses to Sal? You bet it is.
I can imagine how that could make black people scary if you didn’t know many before, but that’s wow that’s a blunt way to describe it.
Amber definitely seems to have latched onto the other thing she knew about Sal: she was a criminal. Harder to say how its affected her perception of black people, since she barely leaves her room or talks to people she doesn’t already know.
We know that it made her vaguely suspicious of Walky, but they look enough alike that it’s not definitive. Her interaction with Malaya was not friendly, but that’s
not definitive either since she was interacting with Malaya. She never seemed to have any issue with Sarah, who she’s interacted with a couple times (as both Amber and Amazi-Girl), so it doesn’t seem like it has
She may not be racist, but it’s not too much of a stretch to say that incident may have colored her perception. Look at what you stated. Nothing cut and dry but that’s quite a bit of circumstantial evidence. Saying that she doesn’t seem to have issues with Sarah doesn’t really work when she’s only interacted with her a few times. That’s close to someone saying they aren’t racist because they have a (minority here) friend, isn’t it?
I mean, there really hasn’t been any indication either way as to how her perceptions have been coloured. Walky sets the corners of her brain on fire because he looks exactly like Sal.
Oh its definitely still possible. Since Amber is such a recluse, there’s not nearly enough evidence to be certain.
On the one hand, it did affect her interaction with Walky, so it clearly is affecting how she sees people other than Sal, but on the other, the effect was extremely mild and she seemed to overcome it pretty easily, so it doesn’t seem like it should be much of an issue.
Then again, it also seems like something that could become a bigger problem the longer it takes to resolve her issues with Sal.
As Fart Captor says, the difference between Amber and the guy you knew is that Amber’s never said anything about being scared of or hating black people. She’s never shown any signs of it other than Sal.
Amber knows more about Sal than just “Sal is black.” Amber knows that Sal held her friend hostage while trying to rob a store. Which is something that, unfairly or not, does tend to color others’ perceptions of a person.
The reason why I don’t think Amber is racist is because SAL IS THE ONLY PERSON SHE TREATS THIS WAY. She isn’t this way with Sarah or Walky or anyone else.
If there are red panels, there will probably be violence, and if there are red panels at all in this scene, it’ll be in response to something like THIS.
So, if there are no red panels tomorrow, I will get to exhale.
She’s currently undergoing a catastrophic mental breakdown and feeding into paranoid delusions regarding Sal and her own belief that she’s doomed to becoming her father.
Like, yeah, she’s been a raging jackass for the last few months, but I think a scene wherein Amber starts crying when she’s about to fight Sal means we’re starting to see a turnaround.
I really hope so. I like Amber and I don’t see how she stays at all sympathetic if she goes much further. For some here, I think she’s already crossed a line she can’t come back from.
Ruth used to routinely kick the shit out of Billie and then sexually assaulted her, and there’s a large amount of people who aren’t me who like her and want her and Billie to have secret lesbian babies.
Amber will be fine in the end. She just needs to stop acting like a butthole.
What I am saying is that Ruth was a massive asshole with little in the way of redeeming qualities and when she stopped being a shithead and got her act together, people started to like her.
We’ve spent years focusing on Amber being a fundamentally moral, decent person who strives to do good and reject what she’s convinced she’s doomed to become. Seeing her now fuck things up because her mental disorder has progressed to the point where we don’t get to pretend it’s cute anymore doesn’t somehow mean she’s gone and pulled a Heel Turn.
I think Sals in big trouble here, like legal issues trouble because she attacked someone, in front of witnesses, with no provocation and is now using threatening language on that person to try to provoke a fight
I doubt it. I don’t think most people saw her actually pull her down. And I don’t think the police would see much reason to get involved as long as security is holding her back. She or they would be ejected.
It’s not as if AG would stick around to press charges. She’s kinda wanted by the police.
That’s true if nothing happens but if something does the witnesses will probably just say what they saw or heard and that won’t be good for Sal because she instigated this
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speaking of beef
*GRUNT*
COME AT ME BRO
I WILL
er.. I mean, *GRUNT*
ergghhh
1 V 1 ME, BET YOU DON’T EVEN LIFT
gRunt grunt gruNT?
im not sure if it will be better if she does attack sal or if she cries and falls apart
Basically what I’m hoping for is a giant fight which works its way through along the entire campus, and then no one gets in trouble because Robin declares it to be awesome.
Superhero fights become part of her campaign platform, she works out a deal with Marvel, and becomes the first President to be elected wearing a cape and mask.
…Anyway, I like this a lot more than Amber getting unmasked and expelled.
I… really like this idea
part of me wants to see something like this. specifically the bottom left part with amazi girl as the smaller of the two
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oslseyeWPpQ/TlCvZyGp5WI/AAAAAAAABQQ/CtJ-CLVQ3Ek/s0/152.png
I dunno, Robin seems a whole lot more grounded than her old Walkyverse counterpart. Also it’s painfully clear that if push comes to shove, Sal has a rock solid harassment case.
This Robin lacks super speed and the effects of constant sugar consumption.
Sal should be able to have a rock solid harassment case, but knows she can’t trust the police to be on her side.
T.T
Even if she did, she ain’t no snitch. She doesn’t believe in the system or systems of authority in general, even if Amber did kick her ass she probably wouldn’t pursue it legally.
I hope Sal and Amber reveal their stands.
Bad to the Bone and Rebel Without a Cause, respectively.
God Dammit XD
So, reenact the final fight scene from Blazing Saddles then?
Add pies and we’re in …
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AOeSrLCD-U
Definitely better if Amber falls apart. At least that option has the possibility that somebody will realize that Amber is messed up in the head and get her some help. If they fight, it is only going to lead to more fights.
Looking at ambers face/eyes in that last panel, I’d bet on the break down into tears option.
It will be better if she does not attack Sal. Because that will mean Sal will not get shot by the police that Marcie has summoned.
when surrounded on all sides? not likely for police to shoot into a crowded area. i mean look at the crowd already formed.
All I know is that this storyline is looking a lot like Trayvon Martin so far. Vigilante mistakenly stalks black kid that isn’t doing anything criminal, black kid gets pissed off, confrontation ensues… what happens next?
It’s *possible* that it’s a coincidence, or that Willis is doing this as a misdirection, but still, if I were Sal, I’d not want to get into this fight.
Sal is the root of all evil and the cause of all suffering in Amberland.
Obviously Amazi-Girl shoots Sal. Otherwise the parallel falls apart. Someone else shooting her breaks the parallel.
Really, I don’t see the similarities. Zimmerman wasn’t a disassociating abuse victim. There was no history between the two.
Despite Sal being black, the police aren’t likely to take the girl dressed up in a superhero costume too seriously. Or possibly take her too seriously – the mentally ill are also common victims of police shootings.
Every single detail doesn’t have to be identical for the story to give off a certain vibe.
Although you do have a point about the superhero costume—that should be a point in Sal’s favor. Sal has a record, though, and is black, and will likely be winning at the time the cops show up if these two get into a fight. :-/
Assuming it plays out like that, which I don’t think it will, it all depends on how Amazi-Girl reacts to the cops – which is likely to involve fleeing and maybe fighting to keep her identity secret – that’s all part of her mythology. If she does talk, she’s likely to be ranting about how Sal is a master villain.
AG does know that the cops are after her for the car chase now, sooo… chances are she runs.
I think she has enough self awareness to understand that they wouldn’t do anything about Sal on her say-so. The incident with Danny was an outlier.
dude have u met the police/ the trained w/ storm troopers for marksmanship and crowd control
If she’s on the ground, they can shoot down with little chance of hitting a bystander, just the former convict who clearly started it and if she didn’t want to be shot then why does she drive a motorcycle, huh?
Really? they wouldn’t?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/new-york-empire-state-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
I feel this will end up in a dramatic unmasking
Followed by an undramatic “Is seeing your face supposed to mean something? We live in the same dorm, if recognizing you meant something to me it would have happened by now. Use your words.”
“If nothing else I can learn Amazi-Girl’s secret identity.”
…
I have no idea who this is.”
Or Amber running away.
Exeunt pursued by Bear, Sal, Marcie et al.
Nah, Marcie’s known Sal since they were kids, she knows exactly how dangerous calling the cops is.
It would be better if Marcie would just arrest Sal, already
Why choose?
It reminds me of an old American dad episode where Steve thought he was a werewolf, so he offered to let one of his friends kill him Toshi then responded “You have shamed me by offering me my greatest wish” (in Japanese).
I want her to fall apart.
After all these years of repressed rage and anger, I want for all of it to just break down into tears.
It’d be healthier, at any rate…
It’s like a D&D “Summon Monster” spell; it takes 1 full round to cast, so he didn’t appear until the strip after someone said his name.
You just made me very happy by bringing up D&D.
We bring it up from time to time. A while back we even debated what Caste of Solar Joyce would be in Exalted.
’tis a blessed hive of dorks and nerdery.
I really gotta get around to looking into that one.
I would definitely recommend it. Exalted (As long as you have a solid GM who is willing to cooperate with you) is a blast to play, allowing for you to make basically any character you want. You want to be the monkey king, wielding a gigantic staff and being the proud warrior of Heaven? You can totally do that.
I’ve heard good things, but a word of caution: it’s an over-the-top setting where the expectation is that all player characters are godlike symbionts explicitly capable of doing the impossible, so if you want to play mortals then it’s best to have a whole playgroup of people who take a Dark Souls-ish attitude to character death.
grunt
Grunt grunt gRunt.
Here, another reply for you
I mean, “Grunt grunt grrunt”
Beef! The prodigal Duke Nukem returneth!
I like to think his internal monologue is a stream of Duke phrases, even if he just grunts to everyone else.
On that note, his first line tomorrow should be, “What? Didya think I was gone forever?”
Amber no
Amber please
staaaahp
get a therapist or some shit
as someone who has been to therapists and both in and out patient it isn’t just something you cant always just get. when you feel broken you almost feel like you can fix yourself like putting together a puzzle.
its when you feel ruined. beyond repair. that you are willing to try anything. you will put the shards that remain of you and melt them down with help from other to try to make something that can be used. something that functions. even if it wasn’t what it originally was or looks like you wish it did. if it works and doesn’t keep breaking you can at least feel its better than struggling alone on a puzzle that keeps falling apart.
I know its wrong but I wanna see the two of them throw down and see just who is top dog once and for all
No there will be no fight, well at least not a physical one.
It’s gonna be Sal. As much as Amber has deluded herself in thinking she’s a superhero and hot shit when it comes to being a badass, Sal is genuinely a badass. Amber in her Amazi-Girl delusion may be able to take on drunken college delinquents who don’t actually know how to fight, but Sal could lay her out in one fucking punch.
Sal came to blows with Malaya that one time, though, and though it was brief, Malaya won. It’s possible Sal gets by more on attitude than actual toughness.
Malaya didn’t win.
She landed a hit, and then Marcie convinced Sal to walk away. There was no resolution, just the whole thing being called off before it turned into a fight and/or anyone was incapacitated.
Marcie showed up and broke up the fight almost immediately. Malaya got in a couple punches, but I suspect Sal would have won that if it had continued. Fights tend to turn around on Malaya pretty quick
Amazi-Girl in that strip: “This was my last chance! Fight me! HURT ME!”
Mike would probably say something like “Wow, sadism *and* masochism.”
Also, re-reading that storyline.. .yeah. AG was already pretty unstable about Sal.
She was extra unstable at the time because she thought she was about to be outed as Amazi-girl.
Now she’s likely to out Amber as Amazi-girl through her own unstable derangement.
Malaya winning, even though she didn’t actually, would mean nothing over whether she could take Amazi-Girl. They fight entirely differently and Amber could reassert herself at any time. A fight would be hard to predict.
Sal is an S-Class hero.
Nah, she’s cool, but I don’t think she’s in Skitter’s league.
I can see Khepri deeming her useful enough to warrant employing her during the Golden Morning.
S-Class Hero is One Punch Man.
S-Class Threat is Worm
Goddamnit, HERE TOO?
What?
Neither of them are self replicating, how could they be S?
There was also her dad, and that time she fought Ross from on top of a speeding car. She is badass. Or was at least, when she was less unstable. When it comes to Sal, she’s too angry to fight well. Which is definitely for the best.
I dunno… that anger also helps her get up without even slowing downfrom stuff that would leave other people down for quite a while.
I worry that this will get messy, but if it does, I’m going to enjoy it before the consequences set in.
anger can be a tool. rage is just destruction.
I disagree, we’ve seen Amber take on men that’re bigger and stronger as well as her father who was also bigger, stronger and as aggressive
Sal, on the other hand, has taken on Malaya, Sal may be a badass but we haven’t seen it in action whereas we’ve seen Amber deal to a larger, stronger male
Be a good fight though so (fingers crossed) we’ll see it next strip
I’ve been looking forward to this fight for a long time, but I’m honestly hoping they can work this out.
Yeah. People would be surprised how much damage a rage filled person can do, physically.
You mean, we’ve seen her take on men who are used to dealing with submissive women, and therefore mistakenly believe that all women are weak and submissive.
Never underestimate the power of being underestimated.
It’s honestly a wash as to who is tougher because we don’t have a measuring stick to gauge them. We know that both are physically ridiculous in terms of prowess and aptitude; Amber can scale buildings and free-climb in and out of trees, do crazy parkour stunts, and beat the shit out of fully grown men significantly bigger than herself. Her dad is a grown-ass man and a guy who is known to use physical violence, and not only did she bust his face open, but she also had no problem evading him entirely.
Meanwhile, Sal hasn’t fought much, but we know she can take hits from people like Malaya and shrug them off, and both her and Marcie seem to know that Sal is tough enough that there is literally no reason for her to even begin to try to fight Malaya. Malaya is the only common thread between Sal and Amber physically, and Amber straight-up judo-flipped Malaya eight feet into the air while winded. We know that, essentially, Malaya is a normal, fit woman, and both Sal and Amber hilariously out-match her in a fight.
Furthermore, we’ve seen Sal pilot a bike at high speeds in complex maneuvers with a passenger who had never been on one before, in traffic, and while doing so, pluck a full-grown 150lbs+ woman out of the air one-handed with ease. That’s as insane as Amber herself doing all of her super-hero stuff. Sal has nothing to prove to herself or anyone, from her perspective, so that’s why we never see her do much impressive stuff, while we see Amber do so much impressive stuff in the first place because she’s trying to prove something to herself. That’s why I think you can’t gauge the outcome of such a fight without seeing it play out. They’re both borderline super-human, and we haven’t seen either of them actually come close to their limit.
It would actually bother me if Sal was as good as AG. AG has actually been training her whole life. She can do super heroic things. Sal even assumed she would kill people but she didn’t.
Now, maybe Sal fights dirtier, and that gives her an advantage. But she needs to be weaker than AG.
Not that we’ll find out.
guys this is not what you need
i’m just waiting for the inviable collapse of this drama tower, hopefully it at least ends with amber and danny making up if not “making up” (I mean getting back together not sex, I’m no relationship expert but, that’d probably be a bad idea just after getting back together.)
I don’t think Amber and Danny are ever going to get back together (though I would very much like to be wrong on that), but if this is her reaction to fighting Sal then the next time she sees Danny it’s probably going to take her all of five minutes to break through her perception of him as a betrayer and apologize.
I really can’t wait for the next time Amber (as opposed to Amazi-Girl) sees Danny.
Same, and given how Amber is acting now I don’t think it’ll take much more than one talk with Danny while she’s Amber, not feeling actively threatened and betrayed, and maybe some prompting with Ethan, for them to be on good terms again.
Questing of Age
Everyone besides Joyce and Mary either run out or are dragged out.
Joyce and Mary prepare to fight.
Aka: You must understand you have no chance, even the two strongest warriors of Indiana are nothing compared to me.
Joyce turns to Mary.
Joyce: You don’t have to do this, really.
Mary: I’ve come this far, but I really do hate you.
Joyce: The feelings mutual.
Joyce smiles slightly and runs at Aka (who is currently possessing Danny from last time)
Aka blocks her first punch, but is actually staggered by a kick to the side of the head. Mary jumps in after Joyce and kicks Aka in the chin.
Joyce: He’s losing power.
Mary: He’s losing control.
Aka: NO! THIS BODY IS MINE!
Joyce runs up and punches him in the stomach, while Mary kicks him on the top of the head from above.
Aka screams and punches them both into the ceiling. He then unleashes a series of energy beams into it.
Mary and Joyce dodge quickly, and push of the ceiling with their feet.
They jump down face first at Aka and both punch him in the face.
They flip back and gain some distance, while Aka rubs out his eyes.
Aka: I am the enternal, I will not be defeated by some idiotic little girls.
Aka rushes at them and fires a massive energy beam at Mary, Mary dodges and the attack blows through the building.
Mary: Jeez!
Joyce: Mary!
Mary: What!?
Joyce: We can’t risk harming Danny’s body, too much.
Mary: I’m cool with that.
Joyce: Mary…
Mary: Fine, Fine…so we need to find away to break the demons control.
Joyce: Any ideas?
Mary: Danny did a technique to save Amber from Amazi-Girl.
Joyce: Got it!
Joyce: Runs up to Aka and puts her hands on his forehead.
Joyce: (Thinking) Please work, oh please work.
Joyce: ULTIMATE COMPASSION.
Joyce enters into Danny’s mind and sees him chained with Aka guarding him.
Danny: Faintly, hey Joyce…
Joyce runs up and tries to pull Danny from his chains.
Aka: It won’t work, only I can release him from…
Joyce: Than I’ll just pull you out!
Joyce grabs onto Aka’s soul and jumps out of Danny.
A black smoke with goat horns forms in front of them.
Aka: This body won’t last long but it will be enough to kill you.
Joyce steps up and Mary joins her.
Aka prepares to releases a hyper powerful attack, strong enough to destroy a planet.
Joyce: Mary, we have to do this one together!
Mary: Fine then!
Joyce: CREATION OF ADAM!
Mary: CREATION OF EVE!
Aka: WORMWOOD!
Their attacks meet in midair.
Mary: I can’t hold him.
Joyce: Mary, go…I can handle this.
Mary: Good luck.
Mary pulls Danny away.
Aka: You can only die.
Joyce almost thinks she can hear the voices of Dorothy, and Billie, and Becky and everyone else behind her. She turns her head for a few seconds to find that they have returned.
Dorothy: Kick his ass Joyce.
Joyce: Right!
Joyce pours all of her power into the attack until it manages to overpower him and strikes.
Aka stands for a few seconds in front of Joyce
Aka smirks before fading away, into nothingness.
This is a dangerous offer. Who wants popcorn with their human pain and suffering? It goes surprisingly well with both emotional AND physical traumas.
I’ll pass, I’m baking some cookies. Much more filling.
I will have some caramel popcorn, please. Emotional traumas calls for sweet stuff on salty stuff.
Caramel cashew popcorn! Mmmmmm
I think Sal is overestimating her ability here.
Technically, she did literally take her down in less than 2 seconds.
Not to mention the venue. A conservative rally? Sal’s brave trying to provoke anything.
This is the real issue. Even if Amazi-Girl starts the fight, you have a white folk hero at a conservative rally versus a black anti-establishment woman with a violent criminal record. Sal would be lucky to get out of there without being gunned down, and at best is going to go to prison. The fact that 100% of the real consequences will come down on Sal will just be one more thing weighing down on Amber’s conscience if they do end up brawling, and she’s already past her breaking point.
“Folk hero”? I think you seriously overestimate how much people off-campus would know or care who this “Amazing Girl” person might be.
Seriously, check out what happened to Phoenix Jones. People don’t *want* costumed vigilantes IRL.
Enh. You got me. See tomorrow.
I don’t. I have faith in her skills at violence, if not her judgement.
Though honestly she’s doing reasonably well in the judgement department.
She still hasn’t thrown the first punch. Waiting for Amber to.
Just a mite, yeah.
I mean, really. Amber has reached insane-stalker levels of persistence. If there’s going to be a fight, the fight is going to last until somebody intervenes and breaks it up, no matter how uneven the fight is (and I doubt very much the fight is uneven at all. The last time Amber was this angry she put Blaine in the hospital).
i can picture amber in a sort of inpatient and dina talking to the school counselor
“Dina didn’t you find your room mates behavior odd?”
“A little but I assumed it was something I didn’t understand the societal aspect of and let it be.”
“I can understand sometimes thinking you don’t understand what is going on but when……. Dina where did you go?!”
“I’m still sitting in the chair ma’am. I am sorry. I did not intend to go unnoticed I might need to pick a more colorful dinosaur hoodie to draw attention when I am in a serious discussion.”
Sal can beat AG only as long as AG doesn’t access her squirrel powers.
But those eyes…
Is she about to…breakdown and cry? Not the kind of confrontation expecting something more emotional seems better the an all out fist fight.
I so hope so. Amazi-girl needs to get off this road and needs to allow herself another emotion other than “steely determination” and “rage disguised as justice”. Amazi-girl breaking down in tears would be so amazingly powerful and a sign that she’s back on route to integration.
Her eyes in the last panel are looking a bit bigger and wetter, I’d say there’s hope
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
Oh boy! I heard they have a very nice theme park there!
And then the security will arrive and AG will flee to avoid them, and once again nothing gets resolved.
Drama!™
[WARNING: Drama!™ may cause emotional stress. Possible side effects include screaming, tears, sleeplessness, or structural damage. Ask your agent if Drama!™ is right for you.]
Drama!™, More Fun Than You Can Shake A [Commented Edited for Foul Language, Violence, and Possibly Racist and or Bigoted Undertones]
darn you edited it. i wanted the screaming and the crying you advertized earlier.
You can’t edit comments.
Maybe YOU can’t.
ill take some please. it might feel nice to experience the first two side effects for once.
Maybe the AG storyline can play out like “Unedited Footage of a Bear.”
Pssst, security is already there…
Summoned by Marcie last strip?
How That’s honestly the most likely outcome for this nonsense.
Actually, I wonder if the sunglass guy is one. I mean, who else wears sunglasses at night.
The camera angles aren’t clear, but it looks like he’s moving closer to AG.
Corey Hart.
So he can
so he can
keep track of the visions in his eyes
GAAAAH WALK AWAY, DAMN IT!
Wait. Beef. And Danny is Wonderbread. Do we have a new ship?
Wonderbread, beef and caramel.
Sounds sticky.
That doesn’t sound particularly tasty.
I dunno, it sounds promising.
Beef glazed with caramel and barbecued, then sandwiched between a few slices of bread? I may have to try this.
But Wonderbread™? Eh, probably just my personal tastes there.
Normally I detest the stuff too, but barbecue is the exception.
On that note, if you’re looking to made a tender beef roast to chop up and mix in with tomato sauce, Dr. Pepper makes one HELL of a marinade! ^_^
So, Beef, cheese (Amazi-Girl is pretty cheezy), Sal-sa, between two slices of Wonderbread. It’s, like, southern Cheesesteak!
(Please, Walky’s caramel. Sal is sweet, too, but with bite. She’s ‘Sal-sa’.)
[Obligatory comment pointing out that this ship thread keeps (hopefully) inadvertently suggesting slicing up of one of the characters.]
wonderbeef
Gross.
I’m so tired of Amber’s shittiness and hypocrisy regarding the legal system. It bugged me a little when she bristled at Danny about drinking, it pissed me off when she expressed pleasure at Sal’s difficulties with a record, and this is just peak garbageness. Her ability to overlook her own incredibly illegal actions while using laws to moralize to others for her own gain bugs me so much.
At this point I’d love for someone to step in and break it up. Here we have a known violent vigilante fugitive, accosting someone who clearly wants to be left alone and she’s talking about self-defense. Ugh.
At this point, I just hope Sal gets out of this without getting in legal trouble or getting seriously hurt.
Amber needs some help but at this point I don’t know what avenue that would even come from.
eeeeeeeyup
The fact that she thinks she can legally attack Sal now just because Sal pulled her down a bit ago is frankly laughable. I’m not an expert, but going off what my old self-defense instructor once told me, things can get dicey in court and it’s doesn’t really work that way unless you are definitely in imminent danger.
Pretty much, to justify beating the shit out of someone, your life literally has to be in danger. Obviously complicated in light of radicalized events, but that’s the general rule.
In some places, you have to prove you tried to get away/de-escalate the situation first, otherwise you get into trouble. It’s especially bad if the person is seriously injured. There are women who are in prison for murder because they retaliated against their abusive husbands.
It’s basically like, you have to have a really, really good reason otherwise you’re going down for attacking someone.
It doesn’t look good for Amber, mainly because:
1) She’s been stalking Sal. She can’t deliberately seek Sal out and also claim that she was afraid for her safety. Those two things cannot be true at once.
2) People witnessed Sal throw her down, but they also witnessed her hovering over Sal, as per #1. They also are witnessing her now not backing down, fleeing, or communicating that she wants Sal to go away. She clearly stated before she wants to settle a beef. That’s not self defense, that’s revenge.
*whoops, racialized events*
Yeah, even if your life is in danger, there are reasonable grounds of violence beyond which you’re still going to get in trouble even if you are acting in self-defense. If you defend yourself from a person and end up breaking their neck, or back, or skull, and you can’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you didn’t intend to do those things, and that they were 100% necessary in defending yourself, you will still get the book thrown at you.
Like, if someone tries to fight you and you take them down hard or knock them out, that’s one thing. But if, in your fear and anger, you turn around after you’ve neutralized the threat from the attacker, and you straight-up soccer kick them in the head, or stomp them, or go for their neck? That part of the altercation is not self-defense, that’s assault, even though it was a retaliatory action.
Amber’s a vigilante in a superhero costume. Her idea of what is and is not legal is a bit shaky.
Her comment about being able to attack Sal is more about her trying to justify to herself that Sal has it coming, morally speaking.
oh you did it. i knew you would.
oh wait no you failed. and i knew you would fail. you want to know why amazigirl? because you are not batman.
you will never be batman.
I would claim that AG is what Batman would have been if he had not had stinking rich parents and magical* resources at his fingertips.
*Not going to find it, but I’ve seen breakdowns of just how damn implausible it is for him to have the kind of computers he usually has without a full team of IT service people on 24/7 retainer. Not to mention how said computers often can do things that actual computers do not.
I believe miados was referencing Dr McNinja, but I’m buggered if I can be bothered to go hunt down the specific strip.
never heard of dr mc ninja. i was just being dumb. im dumb a lot.
It’s about an Irish ninja doctor who basically wants to be Batman. I highly recommend it.
Well Batman can breathe in space, so of course he can run the Bat-Datacenter by himself. (Well, I bet even Alfred can reboot a node.)
Alfred is -very- good with computers.
I’m really hoping that face in the last panel means she’s realizing she may not actually have the moral grounds to attack Sal here.
I’m thinking now that it’s probably more just AG needing Sal to actually throw the first punch for “her moral code” despite what AG said prior. Se can’t quite cross that line to convince herself that the throw was enough to justify attacking. I’m still taking it as a sign of hope for her salvation though, the hopeless optimist that I am.
If I can give my two cents on this… I don’t think she thinks she’s legally “within bounds” to attack Sal. I think she thinks she is morally “within bounds” to attack Sal. She’s gotten into this dangerous mindset where everyone has to obey the law BUT she gets to obey her own moral beliefs which she seems to have put above the law.
I agree. Vigilantes are dangerous because they insist on playing by their own rules, following their own ethical code / laws, while ignoring actual laws.
And sometimes the advice of actual law enforcement. I’m thinking of Zimmerman ignoring the cops telling him to stop stalking Trayvon Martin because in his head, he needed to protect the “sanctity” of the gated community from the “black interloper”.
I think she’s actually trying to convince herself she’s morally “within bounds” to attack Sal.
I don’t think she thinks she can legally attack Sal. People keep evaluating her actions like she’s anywhere near a rational state of mind. She most certainly isn’t.
She is at a breaking point. She has more than one personality going on here. Each is fighting for control. Both are delusional in thinking that there is something going on between Danny and Sal. She knows that she cannot take Sal in a fight. And, she knows she is in the wrong. Yet, her own code, as said above, says she must press on.
And, last, but not least, she is suicidal. She would not actively take her own life, but she will act in a way that will get her killed. Sal knows this. Sal knows this, because she’s been down that road, herself. Amber/AG tried that with the car chase. Sal saved her life, but that wasn’t what she wanted. She wanted to die on the road. And, she is still concussed.
Which is a wild card here. Her concussion, untreated for days, could be getting to a point. A point that drives her to attack, or to break down and cry. Or see technicolor pachyderms.
There’s a sizable distinction between “suicidal” and “not caring if she gets killed”. And I’m not sure that’s even the case.
She’s definitely taking unnecessary risks, but considering how she clearly exhibited fear for her life at a couple points, I’d say she was simply being brave. Foolish, but brave as hell.
“Brave”? You’re using the Glorion definition of ‘brave’, aren’t you?
OTOH, Sal wasn’t nearly in legal bounds to attack her either. And that move was far from just “pulled her down”.
Legally, at the moment, I’d say AG isn’t justified only because a bit of time (and some words) has passed and Sal hasn’t followed up. That there’s a crowd and security present also reduces the risk to her. She would however have been perfectly justified if she’d moved right after being thrown.
The posturing pretty much kills it being self-defense. 🙂
All of that assuming her stalking of Sal doesn’t constitute a felony and depending on what Indiana’s local laws are.
The physics in the DoA universe clearly allow for more dramatic maneuvers without causing injury. Otherwise, Amber would be dead a couple times over.
Um, no, actually. When someone’s stalking you, you actually do have some valid self defense claims against them (In some jurisdictions, at least).
Like, stalking puts reasonable people in fear for their lives. There is an actual rationale here.
Yeah, stalking is tricky and exactly what counts varies as you say.
Which I kind of said? If the stalking is a crime, then Sal’s justified and AG can’t claim self-defense. If it isn’t, she could have claimed self-defense if she’d responded to Sal’s attack. It would be harder now that the danger isn’t imminent and they’re both posturing at each other. More like any fight. Either of them could walk away pretty easily at this point.
We’re not really just talking legally though. I mentioned it, but it’s because people are so quick to dismiss this as Sal being violent and unjustified. Ethically, stalking definitely permits as light a thing as what Sal did. She yanked her down and forced a confrontation, which I want to point out is stupid af, but not unethical. What Amber’s doing is stalking, though it might not be considered as such in Indiana (It might also be.)
But that ‘fear in a reasonable person’ thing? That’s because stalking is pretty inherently threatening. If nothing comes of it, great, but still. Some action is legitimately justified.
And no, Legally AG was *NEVER* justified. She was in the midst of what I’m pretty sure is generally considered a violent felony, and is still a violent offense at any rate. Sal taking a swing at her in self defense, was /never/ going to give her a real defense. If you commit assault, and a bystander rushes you to try to stop you, you don’t then get to claim self defense on them.
AG may or may not get off, but that’s because her victim is black, and it’s notoriously difficult to bring white people to trial successfully for crimes of violence against black people.
If that were true, then George Zimmerman would be in jail. You do not have the right to attack a stalker.
George Zimmerman got off because of systemic discrimination against POC in the community. By all accounts, especially given that the dispatcher specifically told him to call the police and he didn’t, and then proceeded to engage, he should be in jail. Additionally, that boy actually was defending his life. I have to laugh through my irritation. A lanky, skinny, unarmed teenage boy causing a grown man to quake in his boots.
But he’s not in jail. Why – because a lot of white people still believe the superpredator myth. They still believe that if you’re a black person, walking in the evening, you must be up to no good. You can think of yourself as the nicest person around, and if you were in that situation you’d still clutch your wallet or cross the street. See also: Emmet Till.
What’s more, it’s like pulling teeth to get anyone to admit that, so of course he got off- sending him to prison for murder would mean admitting that what he did was racist, his racism cost an innocent boy his life, and no white person wants to admit that they have ever said anything even a teeny bit problematic, let alone participated (intentionally or unintentionally) in the culture cultivated over hundreds of years is what allowed this to happen. Sometimes it makes me feel like the world pre-1965 didn’t even exist to some people.
Because “If he’s guilty of that thought process, that makes me guilty too”, which shatters the whole I am a Good Person with No Identity Based Flaws Whatsoever 24/7 (but other people have them, of course) and can never be in a bad mood, or sometimes just act like and asshole myth that a lot of people, not just some white people, have got going on. Like, we all have our hangups.
What makes people Unpleasant People is doubling down and refusing to grow or improve ourselves, which has only ever lead to more problems.
Yeah, except no. The fact that White People like you ignore this in the zimmerman trial is part of how we as nonwhite people know y’all don’t give a fuck about us. That defense only matters when it’s a white girl against a YBM stalker. The second one of us tries to claim it, it doesn’t exist.
Also: Yes, use the case where a man gunned down a child, and was exonerated based on the law saying that his fear was something a reasonable person would have, and that a reasonable person’s fear for their safety justifies lethal violence, to say that if a reasonable person’s fear for their safety does not justify non-lethal fear of violence. The other great irony of Zimmerman is that the very law that gave him his defense, should have stripped it from him after granting it to Martin.
God damn, fuck White People. Is this really what’s happening today?
Dammit. That’s, if a reasonable person fears for their safety, non-violence is not justified.
…non-lethal violence not non-violence. God damn.
*Flashbacks to highschool fights where both fighters yelled at each other to throw the first punch*
I’ve heard boxing referred to as ballet, so is that a country two step?
That is some promising hesitation.
I was half expecting to see the ‘Amber’ tag.
No blush marks on her face.
I’m really hoping that face in the last panel means she’s realizing she might be wrong to attack Sal here.
I’m thinking now that it’s probably more AG still needing Sal to actually throw the first punch for her “moral code” despite what AG said about being “within bounds to retaliate.” She can’t quite cross that line to convince herself that the throw was enough to justify attacking. I’m still taking it as a sign of hope for her salvation though, the hopeless optimist that I am.
Beware the angry literalists. When you say “Come At Me,” they just might take your invitation!
“You’ve been fixing to”? Just when I thought I was getting the hang of American slang-
It’s not really slang so much as a dialectical phrase that’s been around for quite some time! Its meaning is something along the lines of “fixing one’s sights on” or “making preparations to.” Examples from this page date back as far as the 1850’s: http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/27391/etymology-of-fixing-to
Oh huh. Thanks :3
(Isn’t slang literally just slang for “dialectical phrase” tho?)
I guess for me slang feels like a word for something that’s a passing trend. You may be right though. To me, “fixing to” (or its shortened form “finna” which I’m pretty sure is much more recent) seems like a more regional take on “going to”/”gonna.”
Slang is slang for “shortened language”, unless that thing I read on the internet was full of shit. Which is not unlikely. But it seems plausible.
Any time a common word is explained as an acronym or abbreviation, “bullshit” is the safe bet.
“fixin’ to” is a southern/Texan expression for “about to.” “I am about to make dinner,” –> “I’m fixin’ to fix dinner.”
Sal used a little awkwardly here IMHO.
Sidenote: I have that recent Steven Universe stuck in my head and it occurs to me that Amber could really profit from mindful meditation.
(I mean, obv a lot of the cast could use some therapy, but)
here comes a thought that might alarm you
what someone said and how it harmed you
something you did that failed to be charming
things that you said are suddenly swarming
and oh, you’re losing sight, you’re losing touch
all these little things seem to matter so much
(Yep, sounds like Amber to me.)
Ikr? Someone needs to sit Amber down and make her listen to this song until she gets it.
If any of the cast thinks that Ultra-Car or Dexter and Monkey Master come anywhere near close to the quality of Steven Universe, I swear to Willis I will fight them.
To be fair to them, those shows are from a different time
Although, by the time the comic finishes, they probably won’t be anymore haha
“fixin’ to do x or y” has actually been in use for a couple of decades now. Most commonly associated with the American South/Southwest, including African American communities there. Quite unusual to hear up North.
More like a couple of centuries.
After the ill-fated robbery attempt, Sal was was sent by her parents to a Catholic boarding school in Tennessee, which is definitely considered to be a part of the “South”. In fact, when Sal first turned up at IU she spoke with a southern drawl (at least that’s the way I interpreted it) so it would not be unusual for her to have assimilated some of the southern idioms — such as “fixin’ to do something” — into her speech.
Some people even say “finna” in lieu of “fixin’ to” language is neat.
I hear the former more than the latter.
I have relatives from the Caribbean who say “finna – “. Yes, language is beautiful!
Also a variation of the pronoun game, perhaps, since she’s referencing/leaving unstated what was spoken by her a few panels before.
Plays the “Feel Like I’m Fixin’ to Die Rag” on the hacked muzak.
Sal: “Come at me!”
Amazi-Girl: “Go, go Amazi-Eyes!”
Sal: “What th’–”
Amazi-Girl: “You will notice me, Senpai!”
The “within bounds” is an interesting comment. Does her Amazi-Girl code still not allow her to strike first, without cause? Like, she used the underaged drinking a while back as cause, and Sal is Sal, her nemesis, but does she need to wait for reason to fight even her nemesis?
At any rate, you know who’s great? Marcie. Marcie is great. Marcie, keep doing what you’re doing.
Perhaps the parlance is ‘Lawful Stupid’?
This already came up with the Walmart drinking scene where she basically egged on Sal and co. to throw the first punch (honestly, you could call that fighting words and threatening violence, so no matter who threw the first punch, Amber shares some culpability). It’s a moral code thing for her, but what’s so messed up is that she’s warping the rules by stalking Sal, looking for a fight, to the point that Sal has to be afraid and has to act in self-defense at some point, so even though Sal throws the first punch, Amber initiates it. Meanwhile, even if it’s not her intent, it makes Sal look like the villain to Amber’s superhero and validates the perception of Sal as some kind of criminal when she’s mostly been staying out of trouble for years.
Yes, it’s Amazigirl’s arbitrary line so she can consider herself ‘not a criminal [like that girl is].’
But yeah, Marcie is great. I hope this doesn’t hurt her and Sal’s friendship (even impermanently, because I don’t like ‘well she should have known ___’ drama)
Marcie is awesome. And it’s worth noting that it was Marcie who defused the Walmart scene and got Sal to bail rather than being baited into a fight as well as broke up the fight between Sal and Malaya.
And yeah, that “within bounds” comment is hella interesting because it’s yet another sign of the pushing on the boundaries of her “inflexible rules” to make sure they justify violence or confrontation with Sal.
Oh, underaged drinking is technically a crime, so I get to intervene and kick her ass like I want to. And here, oh, technically you defending yourself from my stalking was you striking first, so I’m within my rights to strike you.
And I’m really hoping Amber or Amazi-girl recognize the danger in this action and gets off this train before it gets to its station.
And those aren’t all – Marcie has served the role of defusing violence so much that Sal considers her “the one who makes me stop.”
I really wonder, though, how far it’s ever gotten before Marcie chose and/or managed to put a stop to things.
She wasn’t defending herself from a stalker. She pulled down Amazi-Girl by her cape. All she had to do was acknowledge her and possibly move out of the way.
Again, you don’t need to try and lionize Sal. Hell, the fact that she’s all about fighting now when she was willing to back down before shows she’s gotten worse. She’s the one who says escalation is bad, yet that’s all she’s doing right now.
Yes, I understand why she’s doing it. She’s angry. But she’s also in less control.
Plus she’s still saying “Wonderbread” to refer to Danny after he asked her not to do it.
I agree she’s going straight for escalation when she spoke negatively about it before and that’s hypocritical, but AG is stalking her. That has been abundantly clear since this strip:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/two-2/
And having been through that, knowing so many people who’ve been through that, I can’t fault someone for wanting to angrily confront their stalker, especially when they are a person who has posed a physical threat before.
Like, that’s not a fault. And yes, she’s defending herself from a stalker. Moving out of the way, acknowledging her, wouldn’t stop the problem which is that she’s had an aggressive stalker following her every move for at least the last two nights.
All night long.
There’s the beef!
Technically, Amber struck first (and with a knife) but AG is beyond all reasoning, so…
…pretty sure they’re talking about tonight. That happened, what, four years ago?
Aha, you are right.
With how obsessed Amber/AG is with Sal, I wouldn’t put it past her to be referring to the attempted armed robbery as the first strike.
Each encounter resets the rules of engagement.
I don’t know if Amazi-girl’s brain can cope with Sal not acting like a mustache-twirling villain.
And how dare she have the audacity to not even have a mustache at all!
Bingo. Amber has built up Sal as this criminal mastermind on the level of the Joker. Judging by her dialogue last strip, she 100% believes that this is their Killing Joke.
Amber you’ve become a dangerous stalker. Like look at your actions from someone elses eyes, you put on a disguise to follow a woman with intent to spy on/harass her.
Yeahhh, it’s not a good road to be on. And it’s just been getting worse thanks to the fresh batch of paranoid delusion she slapped on top of it.
I do not believe I’m capable of the eloquence that people like Cerberus, Emperor, Bagge, and surely others, so I’ll just go with this:
Panel 8: Grunt, grunt. Grunt. grunt grUNT!
Well said.
Sarah is a surly other!
Whoa, being mentioned in the same breath as Cerberus and Bagge? Now -that- is an honour.
Cerberus, Bagge, let’s celebrate by throwing pies at each other!
Fart Captor is also good. I know I often disagree with them, but they’re good nonetheless. In fact, I appreciate that I can disagree with them in a nice manner.
ischemgeek is beyond amazing, because she should spend her entire time plotting how to nuke earth from orbit instead, considering the amount of shitty people she’s had in her life.
Oh, and Mav. Just a bit below here, Mav gave Saki some context that made Saki re-examine their opinion. If that’s not good commenting, I don’t know what is.
Fart Captor is also a ridiculous person, and he enjoys it when people have to say “Fart Captor” while trying to be sincere :V
Seriously though, I feel the same. You’re always good for an insightful debate.
If there was a scale for how surprised We could be that you chose the name specifically for its ridiculousness, it would have Us on the negative side.
Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar down on the negative side.
I don’t recall IsChemGeek, I’ll have to keep an eye out for her posts. Mav does some nice posts as well as theJeff. I miss Reltik (sic) critiques on their GravRoulette. Charles P. also seems good on discussions, as well as Leorale.
I should also mentions Some1’s great short stories; the Patron of Bâtons, Just Sarge, and Disloyal Subjects quips; Kaze no uchi, kādo no kyatchā, really just the name alone, but also contributions as well.
There’s plenty of love to go around.
Sal: JUST DO IT! DO IT!!! /Shia LeBeouf
Nike?
I guess?
So, on a scale of 1-10, just how racist IS Amber? Because everything about Sal makes her uneasy and hateful as well as thinking of crime.
Right, I’m sure none of that has to do with the traumatic memory she has that Sal caused. It’s cause Amber is racist.
We have our answer, so we can all go home now?
Plus, a lot of this came from her dad’s abuse. The robbery was traumatic, definitely, but it was her father’s taunting and verbal abuse of her afterwards that triggered the hand-stabbing and worsened the problem, and it was her father who refused to get her to a decent therapist who could help her work past her trauma. Plus, a lot of Amber’s inability to handle her anger healthily (which is how the Amazi-Girl ego was born in the first place) is due to how her dad handled his anger, IE not well, and her fear of becoming like him in any way.
TL;DR Everything between Sal and Amber is almost certainly the fault of Blaine O’Malley. FUCK Blaine O’Malley.
I mean, don’t get me wrong, AG is blindingly ignorant to the situation at hand and how she comes across in this scenario. (Stalking a black person and bending the definition of the law to justify assaulting them? Wow, why does that sound familiar?) AG’s always been willfully blind to Sal’s character outside the narrow picture she’s painted in her head.
Mostly I just wanted to blame Blaine for something because he’s a fuckface and deserves it. (Been reading the Freshmen Family Weekend arc and goddamn.)
Definitely agree on a lot of this, but I definitely see Amber willingly fulfilling racist actions and racist roles without questioning it in ways that she would likely be horrified by if she were to realize the full context and optics of her actions.
So basically liberal suburban white kid racist, the type who’d never use the n-word and likes Ice Cube, but who will unironically refer to majority black neighborhoods as “dangerous neighborhoods” and who assumes that criminal types can’t be rehabilitated.
But yeah, no, definite top prize as to what fucked up Amber O’Malley is definitely Blaine O’Shitheel.
Yeah, I’m really hoping that having this confrontation be in front of so many people might give Sal the opportunity to talk just enough sense into Amazi-Girl where she can take a good step back and look at her actions. Then again, Amazi-Girl’s made a bad habit of telling herself whatever she needs to in order to justify her anger. Either way, something’s gonna happen here that permanently changes these two characters.
Man, this last chapter has just been one hell of a thing, hasn’t it.
If nothing happens here to make her see the context of her actions, I wonder if people talking about this event the next day will help with that? I’m pretty sure the rumours of the campus vigilante trying to fight / fighting a student of colour at Robin’s political rally will spread pretty fast. Maybe she’ll overhear a conversation about it, like “Oh hey did you hear the vigilante tried to beat up a black student yesterday?” “Yeah, no idea they were a racist, this is pretty disappointing” -type stuff might make her think about this…
Although of course it is possible that this won’t change anything, as she will jump to defending AG’s actions, since she thinks of her as morally superior and therefore any- and everything she does is 100% justifiable and right and good.
Actually, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. A large number of the racists I know in real life, REALLY DON’T THINK THEY’RE RACIST. However, they come at assumptions about fellow black students (I work in academia) or black culture in America in general with some pretty toxic ideas. Amber being racist would be an interesting twist because I see it AS resulting from her past experience which she’d never ever think about as being racist and would be horrified to realize in her “law and order rampage.” It’s a hard idea to swallow but her interactions with Sal colors her interactions with Walky and possibly would other black students. Certainly, it’s going to color her interactions at the DeSanto rally.
Of course she’s racist. She’s an 18 year old American kid who’s grown up in our toxic stew of prejudices and doesn’t appear to have much personal experience or the serious introspection to counter that.
No way she hasn’t absorbed and internalized some of it.
That said, I don’t see racism directly affecting her problems with Sal. Indirectly, as she doesn’t consider how societal racism will affect Sal’s interactions with law enforcement.
I haven’t seen any reason to think her unease with Sal is due to anything other than the time they first met which caused her to have severe PTSD?
She could have unexamined racism, could not. It seems to be Sal-specific, like, she didn’t distrust Sarah or Jacob, right?
OTOH her comments towards Sal are tone-deaf at best, like hoping it was hard to be a Black woman with a record. She would definitely come across to Sal as racist, particularly since Sal didn’t know that she’s hated personally. My best guess is that Amber is concentrating on her own trauma and hasn’t examined her white privilege to know just how messed up she’s talking, in the context of the world.
That’s true, I forgot about that horrible comment. So yeah’s she’s probably definitely not like a 0 on that scale. : /
So, uh, she’s not joining the Klan, but yeah she’s really blind to injustice that she’s perpetuating, and from which she benefits (For example, she trusts the police while her victim doesn’t, even though she’s the one endangering people and breaking the law). That’s more society’s fault than some kind of active choice, but it’s still no good at all, especially from a person who supposedly loves justice. Cut it out, Amber.
Leorale- Yeah, I’ve been noticing for awhile that it would be really hard for Sal not to read Amazi-girl as racist with all the shit she’s pulled on her. From harassing her over a nothing crime and claiming she’s just the type of over-oppressive harassing police state types that love to pull black folks over on DWBs to fixating on her criminal record and treating her as a degenerate after she saved her life and tried to check up on her, to the way she peddled back in fear at the very sight of her checking up on her…
Not to mention the Zimmerman-esque stalking she’s branched out into?
Yeah, she may not be intending to be racist or to come off as racist, but I’m betting Sal is just seeing some racist white girl who’s harassing her because she’s black and has a criminal record, same as cops have likely done to her for most of her life.
She was a little uneasy around Walky during their rooftop meetup, but I’m pretty sure that’s just because of the whole “facial similarities between twins” thing; he looks like Sal, and since Sal is a major trigger for Amber/Amazi-Girls’ trauma, some part of her subconscious had made a connection to them was trying to hammer the panic button in the back of her mind, even if she couldn’t consciously figure it out.
But yeah. it seems to be less of a race thing and more of the traumatic trigger thing.
That being said, bending the laws and definitions of self-defense to justify the stalking and assault of a black person definitely sketchy as fuck (and, sadly, not uncommon in the real world) and it is no fucking wonder that Sal thinks she’s being targeted for her race, because holy shit Amazi-Girl, do you not see how this looks from the outside. I mean, I know you don’t, but goddamn.
Fraternal twins don’t look anymore similar than any other siblings. … I can’t tell if normal people can see the similarities between siblings. I wouldn’t know my own if I didn’t know we’re related, but I may be an exception.
Amber/Amazi-Girl seems to be highly uncomfortable around people, period, and I think she went up to the roof because she needed some alone time, which is probably not the best time to interact with her. Other than that, I don’t think we have a lot of information either way on her specific opinions about people of different races (due, again, to her lack of interacting with people,) but just as Joyce has opinions about others that she picked up from her parents, I’d expect Amber to have some sort of opinions she’d picked up from Blaine.
Not a pretty thought.
While it’s true that fraternal twins don’t always look the same (and that their differences in appearance are actually part of the cause behind their parents’ favoritism — Walky “came out whiter,” after all) AG specifically said that something about Walky’s face set off alarm bells for her, almost certainly in relationship to his resemblance to Sal. And given Danny’s reaction to seeing Walky and Sal in a room together during the dorm party (namely “how the fuck did I miss that”) the similarities in their faces are most likely strong enough to pick up on, even if you don’t know you’re picking up on them. ESPECIALLY if one of the twins’ faces is irrevocably burned into your mind as a reminder of a truama you endured.
My previous boss had five daughters. They all had the same face.
There were differences, sure, as their age range varied about 20 years from youngest to oldest (though youngest was ~20 when I last saw her, so not a little kid) and they had different lifestyles and habits and whatever. Lots of dominant genes on their dad’s side, I guess. You could also tell their cousin was their cousin, though he didn’t bear nearly as striking a resemblance. The grandchildren all look pretty similar too (and are a mix of ages and genders)
tl;dr even if not genetically identical, I believe in nearly identical fraternal twins easy, even ignoring the few actual ‘matching’ pairs I’ve seen
Walky and Sal are confirmed to look pretty similar.
I think what Charles Phipps might be getting at is that despite Amber’s personal history, there are still racial attitudes that exist in society that would make Amber stalking, trying to get revenge on, repeatedly telling a black woman with a record that she’ll always be evil and never amount to anything, while simultaneously dismissing her own shitty criminal behaviour/mediocrity that she never actually “paid her debt for” is not a good look.
I mean, she’s literally going “If I’m violent, it MUST be for a good reason because look at my life, and if she’s violent, she’s a criminal/bad seed/will always be shitty, and I don’t care about her backstory because nothing justifies that kind of behaviour”. Which obviously it doesn’t justify either of their terrible decisions, but if you look at the parallels in today’s society it seems really similar. Obviously I’m not the author of this story, but interpretations are also partly based in reader’s experiences. If you’re not aware or familiar with the parallels, it won’t seem like it to you. But if you’ve actually experienced these things, there’s a chance it might seem different.
I mean, we know why Amber has beef, but that’s also the reality of the society we live in. To completely discount it is a tad unrealistic at best.
I didn’t think of it in that larger context of societal attitudes. (as white person not living in the US I must say that no matter how hard I try to be as socially aware as I can, there will always be things that I fail to be aware of)
So yeah I see all your points, unlike my initial reaction told me, Amber’s probably not a zero on that scale, and I’ll think about context more in the future.
I can see that your thoughts would be a good chunk of Amber’s reasoning. Nobody here would be a zero on the scale. We all have our stuff that has influenced our lives – like racism, sexism, colorism, etc.
Oh I actually agree nobody would be a zero (after readjusting my evaluation of the scale)
Just to clarify; I was thinking of the scale in terms of aah “active”, I guess, racism; my zero wasn’t “has never done one racist thing in their entire life” because I do think we all have unconscious biases that have been drilled into us by media / society, that we act on without realising it, and that are very hard to get rid of. I guess I was going on intention… I didn’t give this too much thought before posting as you can see ahah.
There’s also the fact that intentions can mitigate some things, but the damage is dealt at the point of actions. And Amber’s actions have not been… great to say the least on the racial scale. And that might not be her intentions but she’s definitely done harm to Sal by repeating actions that have likely hurt her her whole life.
And I don’t think Amazi-girl is gonna be happy about that when she figures that out.
I really would love at some point for these two to have a heart to heart about everything so that Sal can explain this to AG, and so Amber can see how horrible she’s been acting, and apologize.
While typing this I thought a lot about all the crap that Sal has had to deal with and I just… I’m just overwhelmed by this feeling that Sal is so strong. I think of all the little things – and the few not-so-little things – that I’ve had to deal with on account of being bisexual and much those broke a little part of me every time, and I just have so much respect for people who have dealt with this crap their whole lives and are still standing.
(kinda went on a tangent there but I felt like writing these feelings down and where better than here honestly)
As a white straight cis male I share Saki’s lack of awareness of societal attitudes. As the cousin of a woman formerly married to an Iranian refugee I have some awareness of racism not being limited to the US. There’s quite a bit of that floating around in Europe, too.
Oh I didn’t mean to imply that racism is limited to the US by mentioning not living there, but rather that attitudes that are specific to American racist cultures are not things I have high awareness of. In Europe racism is a lot more focused on ethnicity than skin colour, and the history of discrimination is very different, and the xenophobic stereotypes informing the way people discriminate are different too. Therefore, the societal attitudes in the US are not the same as here, which is why I’m less aware of them.
I think you’re seeing a lot of stuff in Charles Phipps’s comment that simply wasn’t there. He wasn’t saying that Amber’s actions make her look racist, he was saying Amber is racist, and his comment gave no indication that there could be anything other than racism to explain Amber’s treatment/opinion of Sal. He doesn’t bring up Amber and Sal’s history at all.
Actually, I asked a question about a scale of 1-10. This comic hasn’t been afraid to ask some serious questions about characters we know and love. Amber is a girl who is trying to justify herself by targeting criminals due to her traumatic past but has been so traumatized by a past event she is stalking, harrassing, and ready to physically assault a black girl for a juvenile question. It effects her interactions with another black student and the only one she’s interacted with for another time. It’s also a political act given the circumstances.
The idea racists are some magical exceptional unicorn is an idea which prevents prejudice from being dealt with. It protects attitudes of privilege which Amber never examines. The law WILL deal with her more harshly than Sal despite BOTH being vigilante heroes. This DESPITE the fact Sal comes from a higher class family. I think Amber analyzes how her attitudes have been warped would be a good plot.
I’m not sure what you mean here. Sal’s not a vigilante hero. And I assume you mean “the law will deal with Sal more harshly”?
And I’m not at all sure that’s true. White people with mental illnesses are almost as vulnerable to police as blacks.
Sal is a vigilante because of her actions to help Becky. About the only time vigilantes were needed in the school.
You asked a question about a scale of 1-10, yeah. Your comment clearly implied that you believed Amber was some level of racist. And I’m just not seeing that. I don’t see how she treated Walky any different than any other random stranger who met her when she was obviously in a bad mood.
Just because I don’t think Amber is racist doesn’t mean I believe racists don’t exist/can’t be normal people/whatever. You’re talking about Amber’s attitude/treatment of Sal and just taking it for granted that she treats all black people the same way. Is it really so hard to believe that Amber might just hold a particular grudge against the girl who traumatized her?
Yeah, it’s possible, but the thing is you’re only looking at it from Amber’s perspective and not Sals. Like another poster said, Sal has no idea who Amber is or anything about her, and it’s not unrealistic for some people’s interpretations to have a racial component to them. I dont think it would be entirely the reason, but if I was in Sal’s shoes I would definitely think there’s a racial component there.
And, AGAIN, I am not saying “Amber doesn’t LOOK racist.” I am not saying “Sal has no reason to believe Amber is racist.” I am saying, “just because Amber looks racist to Sal doesn’t mean she is.”
Charles Phipps seems to be under the impression that Amber is racist. His first comment made that clear, even if he didn’t actually say it. I feel like Charles and I are having a conversation about whether or not Amber is racist, and you want to talk about whether or not Amber LOOKS racist. Which is okay, but since you and I happen to AGREE on that point, it isn’t the conversation that I want to have.
And you know, I think it would be nice if Amber would “analyze how her attitudes have been warped” too. I just think that Amber’s “attitudes” only apply to Sal and not to black people in general.
The thing is that Sal doesn’t know that. I imagine Sal’s impression of AG’s attitudes would be that they resemble those of people who judge her for her colour and her past.
Look, I’m not saying Amber doesn’t LOOK racist. I’m not saying Sal doesn’t have a lot of good reasons to think that Amber is racist. I’m saying “appearing to be racist is not the same thing as BEING racist.”
It feels like everyone in the comments section is saying Amber is racist because she hates Sal for no reason, or that Amber is racist because she looks racist. Which is not true and very messed up.
Your tough question was not a tough question. Your reasons to claim racism involve cherrypicking things out of context to imply racism when there isn’t any.
Yes, Sal is black, and AG is going after her. Yes, Sal has a record and has paid for her crime. Yes, Amber is white.
But Amber is not going after Sal because of being black. She did not randomly choose her. She has a preexisting problem with her. If the robber was lily white, she would be going after her just as much.
Furthermore, we have not seen any racial bias in the people AG goes after. And we’ve not seen any sign that Amber has any problems interacting with black people. We’ve seen both her dialog and inner monologue, and not a racist thought to be found. Not even the really tiny kind that is really hard to talk about because people get upset if you point it out.
No, racism isn’t special. This would be valid reasoning if you replaced any other word in there. It is you (and a few other commenters) treating racism as special, acting as if you can just cherry pick things to make it.
And that is actually what makes things worse. It’s the “crying wolf” effect. If what you call racism isn’t racist, then people will assume the same in the future. So when you do want to discuss mild racism, people will assume it’s not real again.
And, just in case you think I’m some MRA/Gamergate/antifeminist/what have you, I will tell you I am often called an SJW. Or accused of White Knighting. I am nearly always on the other side, trying to help people who are upset about someone pointing out their racism that we aren’t calling them racist.
But this is just so completely wrong. AG is not being racist. Like I said below, Sal is technically being more racist with “Wonderbread,” even with the punching up stuff (because Danny asked her to stop calling him that).
The answer to your question is a very obvious 0.
What people are saying, though is that nobody is zero. To claim that, being born and raised on this planet, you don’t have any hangups whatsoever related to identity is a fallacy, simply because nobody exists in a vacuum. For example, maybe you’re a white person who doesn’t think of POC in a shitty way. That doesn’t mean you don’t benefit from society’s preoccupation with white supremacy. If you are a man who doesn’t actively put women down, you’ll still be given social priority – for example you’ll not likely be ostracized/stoned/murdered for having multiple sexual partners, for example.
I think if I and other commenters had said, “Amber sometimes says racist things”, instead of “Amber IS a racist”, people would agree more and not freak out so much about it. Too many people associate the noun Racist with extreme examples like Hitler or the Klan what have you without realizing the subtleties of it, AND they use those extremes to distance themselves from their own hangups- which like I said, everyone has.
What I was arguing was, Amber’s beef is deeply personal, yes. But, Sal does not know that. And yes, it matters, because Sal’s backstory is directly related to the way that people treat her based on her race and gender, even before the robbery. See my definition of Wonderbread below and her use of the term to describe Danny.
Additionally, Amber, being a person born and raised in America of all places, also would have been influenced by it. See her comment about being happy that, since Sal has a record, she will never get past or amount to anything. If you know anything about race and the prison system in America, you would understand why that was barb that ended up a really racist comment. So would Dorothy – caramel boyfriend, anyone? and another person mentioned Danny calling Walky “that kid from the Jungle Book.”
Everyone has their own hangups. I’m obviously not a horrible monster, but that doesn’t mean most of the clothes I and many other Americans wear weren’t made by slaves/sweatshop workers.
I’m not sure how racist she is, or perceives herself as, but she’s definitely ignorant of how racist she sounds and makes no strides to correct that so I’d say at very least 3.
Yes. you can do and say racist things without realizing it. It’s a common misconception people have. They don’t think of themselves as participating in it, therefore they do not, which is false thinking. I think people use the R(acist) word and people freak out and try to distance themselves as much as possible, therefore they almost never take the time to examine their actions and improve themselves.
Yeah, that word has a way of snuffing out any chance of a meaningful conversation once it’s used.
or: ‘what leorale and mav said’
Just to clarify myself now that I look at this again, especially given I’m white, so it might be different than others’ actual experience based ones, my scale is something like (pot. trigger warning)
0 – not racist, 3 – amber as described above, 5 – blue lives/all lives matter, 7 – casual racism/slur use, 9 – bigots using no pretenses, 10 – murderers, hate groups, etc
(this doesn’t include internalized racism or anything, which I can speak on even less than on this, and because I think one’d need a parallel or separate scale, and it’s irrelevant regarding amber)
Why would Amber try to correct how racist she sounds if she doesn’t KNOW how racist she sounds, like you said? Wouldn’t she need someone to point it out to her?
Not always. She could also look it up and do some research.
Look, if Amber is unaware that there is a problem, why would she take steps to correct that problem? Are you going to do research on termites if your house isn’t already infested with termites (and if you don’t have some other logical reason to research termites/aren’t the kind of person to perform research on random subjects?)
You can be unaware and still think, ‘wait, something seems wrong about this.’
I grew up under a rock, near only a white retirement town. No idea about anything to do with modern racial anything, good or bad. Then I grew up, and I changed that. Without stalking a black girl in a way that looked very inspired by recent police brutality. I might not be an expert still, and wouldn’t find it a problem for Amber to still just be trying, but still.
I do ackno
accidentally sent.
acknowledge that Amazigirl may not be trying even if it did occur to Amber, but there were times before they were quite this polarized that I think it would have gotten through.
Also, I don’t find it unlikely that Blaine would be racist, so there is the possibility that she’s a little more aware than we think, even if still not fully.
I think all of Amber’s reasons for hating Sal are intensely personal.
When Amazi-Girl tried to get Sal to fight her by letting her think she’s racist, even though I’m certain she was only saying that to provoke Sal, that’s still at least a little racist, but other than that, I really don’t see anything.
There’s definitely a lot of room for her actions to appear racially motivated, and I would be surprised if Sal didn’t at least suspect that was the case, but I’d say they’re pretty well explained by the PSTD, emotional trauma, and the unhealthy fixation she’s developed with Sal, who has become a focal point / scape goat of her past trauma.
Sure. But that’s irrelevant to the question of how racist is she being.
The answer to which, btw, is ‘pretty fucking darn’. I guess on a scale I’d say 8ish, with 5 as baseline racism for existing.
Like, she’s not being uniquely or unusually racist with the extra Sal has of having a record, so there’s that. Unfortunately. 6 at most there. But as far as Sal and anyone else knows, she was shitty to Sal before she knew about the record, so…
Is it really racist to be shitty to a black person for entirely personal reasons that they don’t know about? I know it might appear to Sal as if AG is targeting her completely out of the blue and thus reasonable for her to assume that race is a big part of it, but it’s not out of the blue and as far as we know race has nothing to do with Amber’s problems with Sal.
It seems to me it’s possible for it to appear to be racist to Sal and justifiably so, but for her motivations to not be racist at all – or at least down on the 1-2 unexamined biases level most of us share.
Racism isn’t an on-off switch for Amber being a terrible person. We can still like her and sympathize with her and also acknowledge the inherent racism behind telling a black woman that she’s super happy she’ll spend the rest of her life being hounded for her criminal actions as a child.
This.
Yeah, I mean, I like Danny but he still called Walky “that kid from the Jungle Book” and thought Billie being mixed race made her even hotter.
I feel the greatest difficulty in acknowledging prejudice is trying to divorce yourself from the belief that experiencing any of it makes you a complete total scumbag. Racists are bad people, and since I am not a bad person I am obviously not racist.
PS: I’m not trying to make any judgement about thejeff here, just in case I came off as doing so.
So happy I’m not the only person that has an issue with the racial names as applied to the characters of color. Also: Damn, he really called Walky that??
I’ve mentioned before how uncomfortable I am with the racial sexualisaiton of POC. Billy being hot because she’s Asian, calling Walky a “caramel” boyfriend Dorothy happens to only want to mess around with.
Yeah – people get so defensive about it. I can freely admit as a POC that while I’m a much more mature person now as an adult, I’ve definitely made comments that were sexist, colorist, etc when I was younger, even recently in at college I’ve put my foot in my mouth. You just examine yourself, learn, move on, try not to do it again.
Mav – He calls Walky that when they have the sleepover and Walky loses his shoes to Ruth, then Dorothy has to ask Danny for some. Not sure when exactly that bit was, but not too far into the story.
This is, quite literally, the entire reason I do not use terms like ‘monster’. I do not fear ‘dehumanizing’ the Majority. The Majority will never believe itself to be less than human. It’s not a reasonable fear, and does not shape my actions.
What /does/ shape my actions, however, is the ease with which people will internalize this sort of thing as a thing Bad People do. and /that/ is a narrative I /can/ strengthen with my words. What she’s doing is a thing anyone can do. Not necessarily in this way, but anyone. It’s why you have to be careful no matter who you are.
You’re right, BUT, that still doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not Amazi-girl/Amber is actually racist or not. Not “appears to be,” but actually racist.
Also, Amber’s actions don’t HAVE to be racist to be bad. It’s still bad to be gleeful that another person is going to be hounded for criminal actions committed while a child, regardless of whether the reason for the glee is due to racism or personal petty revenge.
For two things-
First, no one said either they were racist or they were fine. This would be completely shitty and weird if it were some white person instead of Sal, it would be bad if there were somehow proof that Amber could literally never be even accidentally racist due to some brain thing, it would be bad if Amber was black as well or if the situation was reversed and Sal was chasing robbery-Amber.
Second, I think that was actually pretty telling. She has no discomfort about how corrupt cops are, as long as it is hurting Sal. There was no acknowledgement even once she was out of that situation that it was ‘at least that horrible institution also hurts that criminal girl,’ it’s just ‘good, you have a record and are targeted by police.’
Plus what Spencer and Maz (and others but they’re right there and relevant) said above. Her actions do not exist in a vacuum, and not knowing does not negate racism, and you can challenge racism within yourself even if you aren’t really aware of it. There are plenty of ways, already mentioned in the comments above/below, that Amber, or Amazigirl, or Amber’s use of Amazigirl are racially tied, even if it’s not the final root of them.
Your intentions do not actually matter. If you further perpetrate the structures that hurt people based on their race, what you are doing is racist. Being a vigilante who takes a special love in targetting and terrorizing a black person is going to further those people. I’m going to, for the moment, leave off how vigilantism itself weakens the protection from the mob black people have, and focus purely on more normal structures that are fresh in memory.
The police exist, and nominally uphold the law while disproportionately targetting black and brown people in particular for that. This is a thing Amazi-girl has done. And Amber actually admitted to it. It’s true that this is because, ultimately, Sal is a trigger for her. But motives aren’t relevant, and that unfair enforcement is a specter Sal lives with.
More directly, she gloried in the fear Sal had that the police would gun her down for a record – a record that is, objectively speaking, cleaner than Amber’s is. Even if Amber weren’t Amazi-girl, that record would be cleaner – Sal committed Assault (She threatened Ethan with bodily harm), and Amber committed Battery (She attacked a completely harmless Sal with the same knife Amber used). But Amber is white. She’s allowed to hurt Black people. Now, in fairness, Sal DOESN’T know that, but WE do. And it’s upholding that structure where white kids doing things to black kids isn’t a crime, especially to not even think about it.
No, but when you keep trying to argue racism where there is none, the only reason that makes sense is that you are trying to call her horrible.
There is absolutely no sign that her hatred towards Sal has anything to do with racism. There has been no sign throughout the comic that Amber is racist.
Or, you know, ti’s because she’s doing racist things, regardless of her feelings, or for that matter, yours as a White Person.
“As far as Sal or anyone else knows”
See, this is the problem. I feel like everyone here is treating “appears to be racist” and “racist” like they are the same thing, when they obviously are not.
Look, if you saw somebody jab a pen a prone person’s throat and a bunch of blood gushing out, you might conclude that they were trying to murder the other person. But just because it looks that way doesn’t make it true. It could be a tracheotomy. Insisting that a tracheotomy (or pretty much any kind of major surgery, really) is attempted murder just because it looks like attempted murder is silly.
I disagree- basically what people are saying is that the intention doesn’t always matter – especially if you refuse to take the time to explain the misunderstanding, like Amber is doing here. Just because you didn’t know that thing you said/did was racist, doesn’t mean it wasn’t, especially for the person you directed it towards.
An emergency tracheotomy would look completely different from someone being stabbed in the neck. I don’t see how anyone could compare it to murder. Comparing someone saying a racist thing to being a murderer is hyperbole in general. I could, however, give you specific examples of a person using racism to murder another person, or put them in jail, etc.
I wasn’t comparing “saying a racist thing” to “murder,” I was making an analogy. They obviously aren’t morally equivalent, but the relationship between attempted murder and surgery is the same as the relationship between saying a racist thing and saying something that looks racist. They both can look like something they are not without the right context.
I don’t need examples of people using racism to justify murder or to put people in jail. I’m not here to defend or justify racism. I’m trying to defend Amber from people who want to isolate her treatment of Sal without considering any kind of context in order to declare her a racist. Multiple commenters look at all the bad things Amber does to Sal and say, “Look at all the bad things Amber does to that black girl, she must be racist.” And it doesn’t freaking work that way.
Look, if Amber had picked Sal at random and decided “Hey, that girl looks like a criminal, I better follow her around to make sure she doesn’t do anything wrong,” and if she had done this to LITERALLY ANYONE other than Sal who was a POC, then yeah, Amber would probably be racist, even if she didn’t realize it. That is NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE. This is Amber, following a girl who traumatized her around, waiting for Sal to do something that Amber’s twisted mind can construe as being illegal, so that Amber can swoop in and exact bloodthirsty vengeance upon, under the pretext of “justice.” Which is bad, and wrong, and very much not a nice thing to do… but it is not racist.
Nobody here has actually given a good reason for why Amber is racist. They say “just because Amber doesn’t think she is or intends to be racist doesn’t mean she’s not racist,” but that is a rebuttal to an argument that nobody is making. People say, “Well, if you look at it from Sal’s perspective, it looks awfully racist.” I agree, but just because something LOOKS racist is not evidence that it IS racist. People list all the bad things Amber does to Sal as evidence of racism, and when somebody has the nerve to point out that Sal is the ONLY PERSON that Amber does those shitty godawful things to, or that Amber and Sal have a history that might explain why Amber hates Sal with irrational, psychologically-unhealthy passion, they respond with one of the two non-sequitur remarks above.
Okay, if I understand your logic correctly (and I’ll grant that I may not have), then it follows that: If I see someone perform an emergency tracheotomy, and I think they’ve just murdered someone, then unless they explain it to me, it actually was murder.
I completely agree that it is possible do and say racist things accidentally, and without knowing. Not intending to be racist absolutely does not guarantee that you aren’t being racist. But perceiving someone’s actions to be racist also doesn’t guarantee that they are racist. It definitely is not as simple as that, either.
There has to be some criteria which separate “things that look racist, but aren’t”, and “things that are racist because of how they’re perceived”.
Oh my jesus tapdancing c hrist. If you think you’re performing a tracheotomy and instead filling the victim’s lungs with blood, then you at best are guilty of malpractice.
Which is to say: What possible relevance do you think your metaphor holds? Because what AG is doing is more like trying to commit surgery on herself by stabbing other people with scalpels. Your metaphor has a clear good you can hold up that obviously absolves you. AG doesn’t.
Oh, also:
I specified 5 is baseline racism, and that with that extra, she’s only being baseline racist – because people are really racist towards black people with a record. Amber isn’t unique. She’s just part of the long list of people glorying in Sal’s problems as a black girl with a record. A record she should have even worse than Sal, even putting aside her vigilantism (And if only by an iota).
With white exconvicts, you can generally get people to agree, at least nominally, that they have served their debt to society. And while it’s not really how people act (They tend to weight convict-status), we at least do conceive of it more (Most colorfully, a white man can be an ex-con and a Face). It’s not exactly true (Even white ex-convicts do have a devil of a time finding work, at the very least), but it’s far more true than we conceive of it for black people (Black ex-convicts are basically not seriously entertained for work, even by places that will seriously consider white ones).
In this framework, Amber is probably not particularly racist. Maybe I’m underestimating her, hence “6 at most”. But that’s not because the framework isn’t racist. It’s because she’s playing an average role in it. She’s still being really racist. It’s just that really racist is the average. The fact that she isn’t ‘driven’ by race isn’t actually relevant. If you asked most folks, they too would say the same thing. It might even be true. I just don’t really care – they’re feeding into that structure, period. Your intent is meaningless. I want you to stop doing it.
First, a couple sidenotes:
1) Some of the arguments people (honestly, not even anyone in particular) have been making have felt to me a little like people were just refusing to accept that Amber’s PTSD and other mental health issues could possibly be the enough to explain her fixation upon, and actions towards Sal. I doubt anyone actually feels that way, but the tone has been close enough to brush up against a nerve for me and probably making a little harder for me to be objective. I’m trying to compensate, but I doubt I’ve been completely successful.
2) Its also very possible that as a white person, I’ve got a previously undiscovered blind spot somewhere around here, and for obvious reasons I’m having trouble pinning it down. If that’s the case, hopefully I can at least get a better idea of what it is I’m not seeing.
That said, I feel like I agree with the majority of the points that you (Lailah, if I replied to the right comment), Maz, and Spencer have been making, but I think there must be some difference in how we’re defining / applying the word “racism” here, or else some kind of negative subtext I’m incorrectly inferring.
I know racism isn’t always the blatant, mustache-twirling “I hate brown people” kind, and I know its not even always a deliberate it even conscious thing. Not intending to be racist doesn’t mean you aren’t. I completely agree there.
Its the idea that an action could be racist simply because people perceive it to be that I’m having the hardest time with. If we were only talking about racist language, it makes perfect sense to me. Whether something is a racist thing to say is completely determined by whether people perceive it to be. Even if there were a tourist who didn’t speak much English were visiting the US, and some jackass told them that the N-word was a friendly word that they should use a lot to sound cool, the things the tourist ended up saying would be racist, even though the tourist didn’t know the actual meaning of the word they were using.
I don’t think the same definition works if you try to apply it to the question of whether a person is racist. The tourist was saying racist things, and it would be totally reasonable for people to believe the tourist is a racist, but is the tourist a racist because people think they are? Unless it turns out that the tourist would actually be totally fine using the N-word even after someone explained what it meant, and how offensive it was, I’d say no. I think we can probably agree there as well. This seems to me like it fits the general agreement that Amber isn’t actually a bad person. She no doubt engages in the same kind of ambient racism of unconscious biases and ignorant misconceptions that white kids usually pick up, and but it doesn’t make her a hateful bigot.
Unfortunately, with Amber, I think we’re mostly dealing with a third question, whether her behavior is racist. I don’t think either of the other two cases quite works enough of the time to be adequate.
If I’m mean to a black person, and people observing this think I’m acting that way because the other person is black. It isn’t unreasonable for the observers to make that assumption given the sad state of things in this country, but I’m doing it because the black person ran over my dog, or because I’m an asshole and I treat everyone like that, I don’t think that the observer’s assumptions would make it racist. I’m just not willing to say that the motives and intentions behind my actions aren’t relevant when we’re asking if that behavior is racist.
On the other hand, if I dress up as a black person for halloween, that’s definitely racist behavior. Hell, that’s probably racist even if nobody sees me to think it is. People witnessing it and finding it offensive only make it more racist. For that case, I think the same criteria for racist language apply. Definitely seems to be more nuance regarding behavior than I’d care to tackle right now.
I’m definitely not saying these are the correct definitions, or even correct at all. But they’re about what I’ve been going by, and the logic behind them.
I’m not really talking about what Amber feels in her heart of hearts. That’s… not exactly invisible to me, but it’s still not easy to divine. I’m not neurotypical, but I don’t do that, even with anxiety attacks (I’ve seen some of what I do in her, but not much.). Her heart of hearts, however, is not terribly relevant to me. I am solely talking about her actions wrt Sal. What she does about Sal reinforces racism, point blank.
Elsewhere? Probably not much? Given the cast in general, and what I said before, I’d be surprised if she registered above a 4 (For the most part, people in DoA do not intentionally act on -isms unless they are being shitty.) But wrt Sal, she is being racist. And yes, the fact that she’s sick, and that sickness is what is rather directly driving her actions, means I’m not exactly mad at her about it, as such. Unfortunately, what she does has White People run tot he comments and say what she does isn’t racist. You know, like Trikly right beneath me. And that is some bloody irritating shit.
Ah. That makes sense to me. It felt like our disagreement was mostly semantics.
Now that you mention it, I’m starting to see how I was doing that a bit myself. At the least I should have been more explicit about how Amber’s mental illness doesn’t excuse her shitty shitty behavior, it only explains it. I was definitely pre-forgiving her for her actions because I like her so much as a character, and am hoping/assuming she will correct her behavior and be making lengthy apologies in the future.
Looking at it again, I would definitely say she’s being racist. Part of me is still resisting against saying she is racist — no doubt because of the premature forgiveness — but that distinction seems clearly pedantic to me now. As much as I might want to emphasize that her racist behavior is transitory and that its exclusively directed at Sal, that doesn’t change the fact that it is racist, and I have to conceed that right now, so is Amber. 🙁
I’m also pretty sure I wasn’t fully appreciating how shitty it it was that Amber was exploiting how Sal both wouldn’t go to the police, and couldn’t count on them to help her, among other things. Even though I’m fully aware that it happens, I can definitely feel the edges of a blind spot there.
This has been very enlightening, so thank you for reading my big wall of text! I’m glad you did
Given what we’ve seen? 0. We’ve never seen a single reason to think that Amber is racist.
Not even Sal is pushing the racist angle. She seems to be aware that AG has a problem with her specifically, and not people of her race. She might have thought she was racist before, but that’s not there now.
In this particular scene, Sal is actually the more racist. She’s still using a racial nickname for Danny despite him asking her to stop. It’s not much–maybe a 1–but it’s more racist than anything we’ve seen Amber/AG do.
When did Danny ask her not to call him that?
I don’t think Danny ever objected to it.
Also, there was the time Amazi-Girl tried to provoke Sal by claiming to be racist. Even though she was lying about why she was there, it was still a racist thing to do.
finally, a knight for us whites
I get you’re never going to read this, but also, Sal has acknowledged the racial factors multiple times. There’s the bit where she calls AG ‘white girl power trip’ after being targeted repeatedly. There’s also the really obvious part where she compares AG to old white men who need a scapegoat, and AG actually confirms that that is why (and you can say AG was lying, but that doesn’t make it any less obvious that Sal would be seeing her as ‘that racist ‘superhero”)
But again, yes, thank you for pointing out that reverse racism! wow! Sal really is the bad guy, how dare she stick it to the whites!
Sal and AG have holes where their noses should be.
And there’s probably someone out there that thinks they have holes where their brain should be.
Cannot unsee. Comic ruined.
I have that problem with some anime.
beef creepin’ in the last panel
And Beef has reason to dislike AG.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/01-move-in-day/kick/
AG attacked Beef’s friends and chased them all off when they were harassing Danny. (Also the first time AG and Danny met.)
Possible opportunity for Beef to get revenge? Fits with the chapter title “It All Returns”, though I doubt it’s the only thing that refers to.
Ah shit, that’s right… Fuck, how many other old foes of hers are lurking around in that crowd. Is there a Duncan or the sign guys?
Definitely not the kind of backup I want Sal to have… the enemy of my enemy is the enemy of my enemy.
I’m certain the sign guys would be smart enough not to get involved, but they might find watching whatever happens to be rather satisfying.
The enemy of my enemy is probably still my enemy.
In this crowd? Definitely still her enemy.
i hope this ends with Sal finding out how damaged Amber became after Sal robbed that store
Same here.
So far this beef(no not the person named Beef) between them went like this:
Sal:”What’s your problem with me?”
AG:”I hate you because I hate you.”
I do hope either Sal remembers or Amber says what happened years ago in that store.
I think you mean “how damaged Amber became after being raised by an abusive father.” Even the principle traumatic part of the robbery was Amber’s dad’s emotional abuse toward her for her reaction to Sal, not Sal. AmaziGirl is Amber’s way of trying to prove her dad wrong, prove that she can stand up to that thief in the store.
That’s not to say that Sal is blameless for committing an act of violence–violence be violent and blamable. But bad things happens to almost everyone, and how Amber deals with the badness is much more about her dad than about Sal.
This. AG is Amber’s way of trying to make Amber feel a sense of worth. I personally thin the “helping others” thing was a way for her to justify her unhealthy coping mechanism – she’s so distracted every time she sees Sal because of all that history, it’s like everything else goes out the window. She didn’t come to protect the rally. She came to see Sal.
Dittoing Mav’s this. Cause yeah, Blaine is so very much the villain of this piece and it is very much his hounding on her when she was so fresh off of trauma that really led to this first split between her alters and the corresponding mythology she built around that.
That’s a good point. Blaine basically is to blame for Amber’s fixation on Sal. She wasn’t “strong enough” to fight back against her and protect her best friend.
It explains why Amazi-Girl seems to intent on getting Sal to attack her. She needs to prove that now, she’s strong enough to defend herself.
I totally agree. That last sentence is the perfect way of putting it.
AG seems to be suffering from performance anxiety.
Well maybe if people would just stop staring and pointing and laughing…
This is how Ruth and Billie started…
Yeah, and we all know how well that turned out…
Ha! That’s true. Sal will flip Amber over a chair and later they’ll make out.
Speaking of shipping, Daisy is there and I wonder if she’s gonna flip out on seeing Amazi-Girl?
Calling someone “Wonderbread” is like calling them Fuckface or Fatass, or bongo tits. It’s more of a casual insult than a term of endearment.
Can’t say I’ve heard of the third one, but I have led a rather sheltered life.
I think he was referring to Meat Loaf’s character in Fight Club.
I had to go and fuck up the hover text.
http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0001858/
It’s fine, everyone chokes on their first few tries.
Never heard it as an insult either. I see how it could be but it doesn’t have to be.
While I have you here, can I just say that I’m a fan of your Avatar Icon?
All hail the Queen of Chaos!
Alphanumeric!
Ultra gear!
wait wrong mainframe cartoon
Yep. It’s definitely a sarcastic racial insult disguised as a casual term. it implies a middle class, (usually) from the suburbs, boring and out of touch white person. The name itself because Wonderbread is a type of white bread, but also really plain. The racial dynamics behind it are an interesting discussion. I myself would never address anyone by a racial (or any other -ist) name, though. I know the pain of that too well.
Yeaaaaaah, there’s no such thing as racism against white people qua white people There are folks with light skin who we’re racist towards, but not as part of their association with white people (F’rex, Turkish or Jewish people. Or for that matter, East Asians). We exalt white people too much for that as a society. ‘Whitebread’ isn’t painful. Hell, ‘honkie’ isn’t. You don’t know the pain of it, if you think it is painful.
Like, in a different universe, whitebread could be a racist insult, but in the one that actually exists, you’re wasting your digital breath.
No, I’m not saying that systemic racism against white people doesn’t exist. I’m saying that literally, if someone were to call you Wonderbread or something like it, it’s probably because you’re white – does that not make sense? And then I just said, this is what it means. That’s all. That, and I don’t typically enjoy calling people names based on their identity. I am aware of systemic racism and the power of words that those higher up on the social hierarchy have that those lower than them don’t.
And I say I know the pain of it, because I have been called names based on my black femaleness, and just for being myself by other people. At the very least it’s an unpleasant experience, at the very most (a white person calling or treating a POC that way) it perpetuates shitty standards. And there are nuances to it, too, for example Anti-blackness in the DR, where many of the people there have black ancestors, immediate family members, etc. and yet they still kick out Haitian Dominicans for being less than etc.
*that systemic racism against whites exists*, I meant
But that’s where a lot of the pain comes from. There’s plenty of insults based on association that more just come off silly (Like clown). The pain of a racist insult is in that racism and the association with it. There isn’t racism against white people, so there isn’t pain in that.
Jewish people aren’t exactly white. Since about the 1970s in the US we’ve been considered white or close-enough-to-white; we get to be considered conditionally white, only as long as everything is going well.
We’re Semitic, and anti-Semitism is absolutely a thing.
–oh whoops, that was towards Lailah, and I think I misread her comment.
It really seems to be back sliding to me. But that might just be because Jewish people seem to be the favored target of video game nerds, and aside from that the folks I’m most concerned about treat jewish people as subhuman in their myths (Rapture theology). Still, to my limited view, if anything it seems y’all are losing your provisional whiteness.
I’m siding with Mav on this. She was careful not to call it ‘racist’, but rather ‘racial’, which it is. It is targeted at a specific race. She went on to explain that, given how much it hurts her, she feels uncomfortable doing it to someone else even if it lacks the power of having an unjust power structure behind it. I feel that she navigated that topic rather tactfully.
Hell, I don’t feel comfortable with any pejoratives. I feel like all they do is allow us to dehumanize people. While racist, sexist and classist pejoratives dehumanize people on a demographic level, other pejoratives dehumanize people on an individual level. Mike is an asshole. Mary is a ‘bongo’. Ross is Toe-Dad or Butthole-Dad. Carol is a fundie. We stop imagining them complexly and contextualize their behavior through that singular idea of what we think they are.
Amber/AG is violent, reckless and now is stalking and harassing an innocent black woman around campus. How many of us see her as sympathetic? We imagine her as a product of a traumatic upbringing and a toxic culture. We understand that her behavior is harmful and has to stop, but we see her condition as tragic, not wicked.
Mary is judgemental, manipulative and transphobic. How many of us see her as sympathetic? Anyone? Show of hands. And how many of us see her as a ‘bongo’? How many of us are looking forward to seeing the ‘bongo’ get what’s coming to her? Why? Is Mary not the product of her upbringing and a toxic culture? Is a transphobic comment to Carla worse than stalking and harassing Sal about her criminal record? Was blackmailing Ruth worse than AG beating the shit out of anyone when she thinks she has a legal defense for doing so? I don’t think so. I think we got to see Amber as sympathetic first. We didn’t ever get that with Mary so she got the ‘bongo’ label and now we cheer when she gets a custard to the face.
That is actually a damn good point.
By any objective metric, Amber has done far worse than Mary. Even if we accept that the whole concept of Amazi-Girl is okay as a wacky fantasy superhero thing where she beats up random mooks who have no family, friends, connections, personality or any agency, all of her behaviour against Sal has been, flatly, criminal.
Mary’s been a bigoted shithead. This is terrible, but it’s not as bad as stalking and assault, it’s just that we’ve followed Amber for years. We know what makes her tick. We have context that shapes Amber’s character and why she does things. Mary does not. Mary shows up and is soundly defeated in the most awesome way possible by Carla, because Mary is an attachment to Carla’s story.
If Amber got her ass kicked and she started crying while Sal made out with Danny right in front her and Ethan told her that Joyce was a better fake girlfriend than she ever was, we probably wouldn’t be cheering.
Even Ruth, at her worst, still had moments of humanity liberally sprinkled in, but Mary is just A Bongo, and thus there’s no reason to interpret her in any sympathetic light.
Well, it’s true that Mary’s hasn’t done as much bad as Amber… But it’s also true that she hasn’t done as much good as Amber either. And she hasn’t had as much awful shit happen to her either.
Basically, I agree with you, Mary is a much more one-dimensional villain than Amber (if you consider Amber to be a villain; I do, for this section of the story, at least).
I see her as sympathetic because she is sick. This, too, is in many ways intersectionality. Without that, I would have absolutely no sympathy in regards to her declaring nemesis on Sal (Though it would still be tragic just what Blaine did to her). I do not want Sal to beat her, but this is not really influenced by that pity – I did not want Mary beaten either.
If Carla had been violent, I really doubt I would support what happened to Mary. At least with Toedad and Blaine, right up until catharsis went too far, I could see violence as justified. Mary said shitty things and was then embarrassed. Why is this even up for comparison?
Also, Spencer, Mary is merely a supporting character in many stories, and we have gotten some idea of what makes her tick. It’s just that it’s vile.
That last one could be a term of endearment. It depends a lot on your relationship, and how much you like drums.
No this substitution has not stopped being funny for me, thank you.
I feel there would be a difference compared to, say, Danny calling her Caramel Girl, but you’re right that Sal calls him that because he’s white and boring.
yes please every-things better with an audience
Odd that he would say grunt instead of just grunting.
Onomatopoeia?
Well he’s definitely not going to say that instead of just grunting.
So Beef is like Bloody Mary? You say his name 3 times in an art gallery and he’ll appear out of thin air?
Yeah punch a black girl at a political conservative rally. That’ll go over well for your image
Oof yeah. Like Maine’s LePage.
Well, it’ll go well for a particular type of image. I’m not sure she wants to become that type of poster girl though. Especially since the comforting myth Amazi-girl uses to power herself is that she’s the champion of the underdogs.
Well, that’s the comforting myth of a lot of the creepier conservative movement. They’ve just somehow convinced themselves that straight white Christian males are the underdogs.
Pretty sure Amber wants no part of that though.
Please don’t go full Rorschach, Amber. You never want to go full Rorschach.
That’s an interesting question, actually, given how many nerds took rorschach as someone to emulate.
In all seriousness, though, Amber is going full Ahab now, and that’s not good for anyone involved. She needs to stop, back off, and take a good hard look at what she’s doing.
That last panel seems to indicate she isn’t going to actually do anything and just leave, which would be good. But the fact that it’s a last panel makes me fear that next strip something is going to go horribly wrong and everything will spiral out of control.
But the precious ivory…
wait someone invok,ed beef like 2 days ago in the comments next door…. damn past willis, u freaky
It’s not as though we aren’t predictable.
Are we going to find out someday that the reason Sal is always wearing gloves is because that wound to the hand Amber gave her years ago got infected and left a really really nasty scar? ‘Cause I can totally see that having happened.
I believe that was confirmed ages ago.
It hasn’t technically been confirmed, but, yeah, it’s definitely why she wears gloves all the time.
Now that you mention it, medical care for that wound was almost certainly delayed.
So, will AG attack, or won’t she? That is the question.
There is no clear answer to that until the next strip, but I have a feeling that she won’t.
Why do I think that?
Remember this strip? Remember how AG basically states that she is stopping -Amber- from attacking Sal? Now, I know that AG did attempt to attack Sal once before that, but a lot of things happened between then and the strip I am linking to.
Now, the thing about AG on the roof… First of all, she is meant to be in control. Excactly how much control she actually is in is rather doubtable, but she is in enough control to not actually stab Sal; something she does not trust Amber to be.
And this control, fragile as it may seem ss why she’s been -stalking- Sal rather than outright -attacking- her these last couple of days. It’s why she is not just going for Sal right away after getting up now. Heck, she even invoked a “hero code” thing to justify going after Sal in panel 3… But then she stopped. Something is holding her back.
Why is she not yet attacking? She usually has no problem with attacking. I think it is because she’s still struggling with the fact that Sal is no longer a threat, no longer a villain. She -clearly- hasn’t fully accepted this, but if she truly thought Sal was completely Bad, she would not have hesitated going in for the attack, the way she goes after robbers and sexual harassers and kidnapping toedads.
But then again, why is it that she still has such a grief with Sal? Well, grief is probably the exact word here. She’s been angry at Sal for five years now, waiting to finally get the full payback for what she thinks Sal turned her into: A complete and utter mess with severe psychological issues. And while we (the audience) know that the blame was mostly Blaine’s, but Sal was heavily involved in that incident nonetheless, and it’s been impossible to Amber/AG to let go of that part.
Except that Sal has not been following the script that AG made up in her mind. Sal the university student is a -very- different person from Sal the juvenile robber. Sal rescued AG. Sal helped Amber with the spilled laundry.
So, the anger issue that’s been seething for five years… Well, now they will not -ever- be “resolved” the way AG imagined them to be. So now she is instead upset with Sal for denying her this. No longer will her anger serve a “purpouse”.
The anger right now is an anger that is mixed with grief of loss. And THAT is why Amber/AG* said in this strip: “That is the second worst thing she’s ever done to me!”
So far, so horribly, horribly depressing. Is there any hope at all?
Possibly. I said yesterday that I think AG/Amber will most likely be hitting rock bottom before she eventually can start getting better. What I did not realise then but today’s strip has made clearer for me, is that she might just be doing that -right now-! If I’m not completely miiiiles off the mark, this anger and grief and feeling of loss might be the start of the turning point. I don’t think she can get much lower than this.
Of course, now that I have said all this, I think it’s a safe bet that tomorrow’s strip will prove me wrong and have AG attack Sal. Because that happens a lot when I try to predict things in this comic. If ever you need proof that I often hold a rectal speech when trying to analyse DoA, just check for whenever I have made other predictions. All of them have been wrong.
*Interestingly enough, the comic is tagged with Amazi-Girl, not Amber.
Uh, oh. Amazon-Girl looks scared as shit. she’s going to do something really stupid now.
i kinda think she looks more on the verge of tears/mental break down.
I’m really hoping that’s the strain of the Amber alter fighting her way back and trying to throw the brakes on the runaway train that has been Amazi-girl’s descent into no-good badness.
I do think that last panel looks like Amber. It’s like the episode of ATLA where Uncle yells at Zuko because he’s trying to get him to not be obsessed with the Avatar so much, who he (Zuko) sees as both the progenitor and solution to all his problems. He yells:”[So you capture the Avatar.] AND THEN WHAT!?”
He tries to get him to do some self examination, why his father rejecting him may have been the best thing that ever happened because becoming his monstrous father is not a good path. His father’s approval is not the be all end all of his life.
And, letting go of his father is what allows him to become the person that he suppressed inside because he feels his true, goofy, emotional, empathetic, impatient, etc. self is not worth anything.
Yeah, and I think Amber/AG breaking out of this assumption that she’s destined to become her father thus she must protect his image from the full blame of his monstrous actions is gonna be the big piece of her healing from that and truly escaping the long shadow of his abuse.
She also had tears before she fucked up the toecreature.
She’s been in the midst of a mental breakdown for a long ass time now.
Indeed, but it is a good sign that when given exactly what she wants, for Sal to hit her first and demand she fight her, she’s hesitating and starting to cry.
It’s contradictory to everything we know about how Amber processes her hatred for Sal, and that’s a really good thing.
well NOW beef is there
why not last strip 🙁
Why would they be calling out for him if he was already there?
Ctrl+F “Summon Monster”
“You don’t have the STRENGTH. You don’t have the fucking GALL.”
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/strength/
Fudge you, Blaine.
What’s the worst about long-term abusive parents like this is how the damage they do tends to linger so long after their casual cruelty is out of the picture. Like you can escape them, move thousands of miles, but part of them is crawled into your old survival mechanisms just waiting to come out and bite you when you least want them to.
It’s what makes Blaine’s actions even more monstrous than just his physical actions against his daughter and wife.
the body may heal but the mind will remember.
I already wrote another long novel of a comment, so I’ll just say this, Cerberus (practically everything else I’d write would just be variants of the same theme):
Godsdammit do I hate Blaine!
That, and the fact that to cap it off, he poisoned Amber against the idea of getting the therapy she needs to undo the damage he’s done, are why Blaine is the one character I truly hate.
Even Ross I can at least feel pity for (not that he isn’t still a colossal butthole). But Blaine can just rot in hell.
Yeah, Ross won Shittiest Parent award fair and square with the gun (and that was even before we knew of Bonnie’s suicide), but Blaine is doing his VERY BEST to close the distance.
I get the feeling that Blaine doesn’t like being considered second place to anyone.
All the more reason to keep him there, then.
The fact that losing Bonnie seemed to be sincerely painful for him is about the only reason I only loathe him. He has the capacity to actually care about someone. If something knocked a few of his horrifying beliefs loose, its theoretically possible he could resemble a human being. I’ve no hope something like that will ever happen, but that same faith will also prevent him from ever truly being happy, since his life has already veered off of the very narrow path that would have allowed that. So I only feel pity and disgust.
For Blaine, though? Other people are simply tools. Their value is exclusively based on their utility to him. His actions are justified because they’re his actions. I can’t picture him ever feeling the slightest bit of remorse.
Me, I think it’s the fact that Ross is so mired and trapped in his own horrible beliefs, that he will gladly and willingly suffer for them, even die for them. So steeped in his toxic beliefs, he’ll hurt himself along with others.
Blaine would never do that. Blaine is always looking out for number one, which is Blaine. Always.
I still don’t feel much pity for Ross, but I can see why other people would.
Can fucking confirm.
I think it may have been hanging out in the DoA comments that made me notice how fucked up systematic physical and verbal abuse is.
And it’s also one of the places that has taught me how most systematic oppression is actually mostly found in the “small” things that happens every single day, and that the oppressed can never escape from.
DoA and its comment field has made me try to do better as a human. That is not an understatement. I owe Willis and many commenters here (too many to name them all, but I think you know who you are) soooo much!
Empereror – this is where I bow my head to you in or sincerity, because THAT lesson seems to be so incredibly hard to learn.
If anyone’s to bow any heads, it should me me bowing to you (and others) who has had to deal with so much stupid bullshit from bigoted morons in real life that I cannot even begin to start contemplating it.
I will accept that it is not a bad thing to have learned my lesson. But please, no gestures in deference, that just feels wrong in this situation. If you wish, gestures based on respect as equals are OK.
And high-fives TOTES fall in the latter category.
All the high-fives, then 🙂
And I’m lucky and privileged enough not to have much personal experience with the kind of shittiness explored here, but i know from personal experience how hard it is to learn to see structures – especially when you benefit from them.
So here’s to helping each other to be better people!
*high fives back.*
Yeah, I figured that where you live, you wouldn’t be quite so exposed to shitty shittery as others are. Almost like it’s more accepted to be who you are.
To helping each other!
Also, here is to (Fart Captor be damned) farts flying free in nature, just like Lesbian God intended!
It’s hard lesson to learn, but always worth it to be a better person than you once were.
High fives all around!
I thought that, too, when I first read it! Sal sounds like Blaine here, challenging Amber to put her money where her mouth is and follow through with her violent/revenge impulses.
On the interesting side no matter how much is resolved in this encounter Sal is going to be associated with Amazi-Girl and people are going to start asking questions.
On the bright side, maybe this will once and for all stop Billie from saying Sal is AmaziGirl (I am assuming people are taking and uploading pictures right now).
She might assume it’s a public ploy by Sal and an accomplice as a precaution since Billie “figured it out.”
I hope things turn out bloodless enough for that to be a remotely reasonable conclusion to draw.
Sal, honey, Marcie’s a security guard. She’s not just worried about whether you’d win the fight.
EthanxBeef just because
Ethan deserves better.
#beefcakes
Sal is eighteen, right? Will her juvenile criminal record from five years ago (if any) have been expunged?
If so, then either Sal doesn’t know, or doesn’t trust that it’s fully expunged.
In the real world, yes.
Now would be a really good time for Robin to show up and be all “Oh sweet cosplay! Let’s get a photo!” or something equally weird that would leave Sal and AG too flabbergasted to remember what they were doing.
…and then they almost kill each other, until they find out their mothers are named the same.
Amazi-Girl needs to take some BJJ!
Comic Reactions:
Oh, oh noes… Sal… Amazi-girl… nooooooooo…
Panels 1 and 2: Oh, fuck. Now Amazi-girl has more fuel for her paranoid delusion that Sal “stole” Danny away and tried to kill the AG alter rather than herself tanking said relationship out of paranoia and fear.
And thus more justification to cross lines she really shouldn’t be crossing. I’m hoping the Amber alter is somewhere back there and not just listening to the ghost of Blaine calling her useless. Cause AG doesn’t actually want to keep going down this road and slipping deeper into the morass.
Panel 3: Oh, fuck, that look of panic on Marcie’s face as she tries desperately to de-escalate this. She knows.
She knows that Sal is black in a “family values” crowd facing off with a white girl. That her fellow security officers are not 100% guaranteed to have the wherewithal to refrain from attacking Sal as a “threat to their fellow officer and this heroic crimefighter what’s in the papers”. That Sal has a tendency to bite off more than she can chew and get into fights she really does not need to be getting in.
She seems as scared for Sal as I’ve been ever since she did the totally normal and reasonable thing of confronting her dangerous white stalker. Because the reality we live in, a black person who does that is rarely safe.
Huh.
Marcie does look scared.
Weird how it’s so easy to overlook someone so expressive just because they aren’t talking. That must get frustrating for mute folks.
You know what I think? I think that Sal couldn’t have done more to confirm in Amber’s mind that she’s the villain of the piece. I don’t know what has got Sal so riled up; normally she’s not as emotional and defensive of this. Maybe Billie’s bad turn has left her on edge.
The thing is… I really think that Amazi-Girl is in two minds whether to attack. She’s rational enough to see a trap when it’s presented to her.
Sal’s been getting stalked by a psycho white girl who always speaks to her with utmost contempt.
That’d put most folks on edge even without their roommate and childhood friend/acquaintance having possibly had some kind of breakdown recently.
In what way is this a trap?
Amazi-Girl, crazy person in a superhero costume, invades the venue and attacks an attendee for no reason anyone can see. That’s a good way to end up being dogpiled by security and ending up in a cell for causing a public disturbance.
Ah. That’s not so much a trap as a really bad idea. Calling it a trap made me think you were saying Sal had planned this somehow.
She definitely can’t seem to bring herself to do it when Sal’s not being an active aggressor. I’m not sure how much reason is involved at this point, though.
Amber needs Sal to be a villain. Right now she has her justification to fight Sal in honourable combat and finally settle things.
Yet, for whatever reason, Amber is hesitating.
I think that the cause of the hesitation is significant. I think that Amber has just can’t make herself hate any more. Danny was her last prop of strength and without it, I think she just wants to crawl into a corner and vanish. Realising that Sal sees her as the bad guy is probably the last straw.
It would be a trap in Amber’s mind. Remember, her delusion of Sal is a kind of bizarre merger of Poison Ivy, The Joker and Ra’s al-Ghul in biker leathers.
Sal is saying “COME AT ME!”
I think Amazi-Girl might be assuming that that’s an obvious trap to lure her into a disadvantageous position, like “attacking someone at a political rally while guards are on the way” and overlooking the possibility that “beaten to a pulp” is a pretty disadvantagous state that Sal can put her into.
Oh son of a bongo this isn’t going to end well for either of them. Well that OR they both stay a night in the drunk tank and learn a little bit about one another. Aside from the patreon members and Willis who’s to know?
Maggie.
I hope AG is about to have a breakthrough and back off: but I can’t help but think that before she gets the chance to something else is going to happen – like the security guards arriving.
And I don’t think that will be good news.
Panel 3 continued: And oh, oh Amazi-girl, no… stop. Stop expanding the loose and bullshit justifications to keep attacking Sal. Stop trying to make it fit into your “rules” and your inflexibility, because every time you become a worse person. Like, deciding that underaged drinking was a “crime” you cared about because it let you attack Sal lead you to becoming that type of moral scold that’s no fun at parties.
And deciding that saving your life was “violence perpetrated upon you” was largely responsible for that last fight with your ex going in such a horrible abusive direction.
You do not want to even begin entertaining the vile Zimmerman style defense of “you negatively responding to my long-term stalking of you is actually proof that you are dangerous and violent” or this sort of first-grader technicality of who did what first.
That’s a line you fundamentally do not want to cross.
Panel 7: Oh, man, this feels so heartbreaking. Sal is so done. Being stalked, being racially harassed (because Amazi-girl’s intentions doesn’t change what framework her actions have been fitting and feeling like for Sal), being treated as the Joker in someone else’s Batman fantasy.
This isn’t just now. This isn’t just Amazi-girl. This feels like a lifetime accumulation of every “random” stop, of every casual harassment, of every time being treated as a potential thief in stores, of 18 years of microaggressions that she’s just done casually accepting.
It just feels so self-destructively resigned like, ya know what, yes, fight me, because that? That I can fight back against. That I have a chance to win at least temporarily.
Panel 8: Oh man… I want to read so so much into this little wobble. Cause, being DID, I’ve been there before where I gave too much power to a golden alter and nearly paid a price higher than I could afford. It lead to a bad place in middle school and so seeing Amber/AG on this precipice, I want to believe that a similar sort of thing that happened for me will happen for her. That her other alter will find her strength and is pushing back against AG’s grabs for greater control and time (to justify the great mission of stalking Sal) and continued pushes into not-good land.
That this is a sign of Amber fighting back, wrestling control, seeing this for the fucked up path she doesn’t want to go down that it is.
That this, loosely justifying attacking the random black girl she’s been stalking because she reacted “poorly” like some penny ante Breitbart stalker, is not a line she wants to cross. And that maybe she might even recognize what she’s been starting to become or just eerily emulate in her zeal to make everything fit this black-and-white fantasy her abusive dad saddled her with.
Or better yet, that Amazi-girl will be allowed to cry, to show weakness, to have access to all the emotions instead of the false “clarity” of strangling all emotions other than rage and “grit”. To allow these disparate alters to integrate and communicate so that Amber is no longer just viewed as the “worthlessness” that the golden Amazi-girl has to save Amber from for her own good.
That Amber/AG can in so many ways truly see where she is and start the long road to recovery.
I don’t think I’ll be so lucky. And it’s very likely she may decide to strike anyways or Marcie’s fellow officers will break it up before she can do anything, but my heart has been screaming for Amazi-girl to get off her path, so I’ll nonetheless let myself hope, at least for a moment.
That way that hope can be even more thoroughly destroyed by Willis’s merciless Hope Smasher in the comics to be.
I think that it’s worth remembering that Sal isn’t some ‘random black girl’ to Amazi-Girl. She’s the distillation of evil in biker leathers. I doubt race comes much into it; Sal is the skin around such a strong archetype in Amber’s battered mind that I don’t think it would matter in the slightest what she looks like.
Of course, the big problem is that Sal isn’t that person at all. Amazi-Girl is trying to fight an amalgam of traumas, abuse and self-esteem issues that her mind has given Sal’s outward form due to one breaking-point incident about five or so years back. The problem is that only she is really aware of this but she isn’t able to admit it to herself, so she’s becoming more and more detached from objectively-perceptible reality as she creates more and more elaborate paranoid fantasies to explain the difference between her perceptions and other people’s perceptions.
For some reason though, here and now, that shield of delusion seems to be failing her.
The thing is that everyone keeps thinking Amazi-Girl is the Gollum not the Smeagol here versus the Amber. I mention racism as a motivator but that’s only in the context Amazi-Girl is seeing a murderous thug versus who Sal is today. I think she’s a 3-4 on the scale. Unintentionally blind to all her privilege, law and order, and fears.
I think AMBER wants to hurt/kill Sal.
Amazi-Girl is who Amber wants to be and knows this is wrong. She said so on the rooftop.
It’s just Amber keeps pushing Amazi-Girl to want to believe it’s the right thing to do to get Sal to attack her so she can kill her. Which is, again, very very racially charged actions I’ve seen on my campuses.
I think that Amber tells herself that she wants to hurt or kill Sal because Amber is telling herself and desperately trying to believe that she’s irredeemably evil. I suspect that, what we’re seeing here is the sudden realisation that, in the moment of decision, she’s found that doesn’t have that in her at all.
Oh, she has anger management issues; there’s no doubt about that. However, except when confronting her father, I’ve never seen any indication that she is capable of losing control to the extent that she could kill someone.
That’s what I am kinda reading in this. That she’s trying to create a mythology where one alter is worthless, just an accumulation of awfulness that the golden alter will save her from, representing all that is good.
Cause that’s a mistake I made when I was younger. And that lead me to not seeing all the good in that “scary” alter and not seeing all the bad in that “golden” alter. And I see that in Amber/AG.
Like, Amber’s compassion, hesitation, inflexibility, and ability to cry and know what it’s like to be scared and helpless are all positive traits that will aid Amazi-girl when Amber/AG stops thinking that AG is defined by the ways in which she doesn’t have any of the traits of Amber*.
*Which in a way is similar to the problems of toxic masculinity. When what it means to be a man is avoidance of any trait that can be perceived as feminine, that typically leads to bad roads.
Like, Amber has homicidal ideation towards Sal and panic attacks that shut her down. But Amazi-girl is just as poisoned by those automatic responses to Sal and her need to view Sal as the comic book villain who is personally responsible for Amber/AG’s first fracturing has lead her to finding any excuse to initiate violence, just now with the smug assumption that she’s “clean” because she’s dumped the homicidal ideation on Amber.
Apropos of totally nothing, Cerberus, I’ve been wanting to tell you that when I come to read the comic, I also specifically scroll down to see if you’ve commented.
I don’t always agree with your analyses, but they are insightful and thought-provoking 100% of the time. Thank you for the effort and the sharing.
Half expecting the “You made me!” ” You made first!” exchange from Burton’s “Batman” at this point.
Hey, is that the rapist who attacked Joyce, behind Amazi-Girl? Looks like him.
I thought that too, but he’s not tagged, and his hair and skin are the wrong color. I think he just has the same nose as Ryan.
Plus, his nose appears to not be cut up, like Ryan’s.
Ryan’s could well have healed by now, possibly with no immediately apparent scar.
But yeah, that guy doesn’t look like Ryan at all.
*UNLIKE.
Not “like”.
Sheesh, me. You’d think I would have learned the language by now.
She doesn’t really want to fight, she just wants confrontation. A chance to confront the thing that’s been haunting and tormenting her for years, she would have put up the mask a while ago if it meat moving on from that part of her past but it’s pretty damn near impossible to let go when the physical manifestation of that past walks past your bedroom door every morning.
Next comic is either a big emotional reveal, which I expect, or Amazi-Girl getting her nose punched out her va-jayjay.
I *think* what is going to happen is that Sal is going to be “defeated” because “the public comes to Amazi-Girls aid”. Then, when Amazi-Girl is celebrating, she’s going to hear somebody say some READ BAD SHIT.
Then she’ll break.
I’m not sure if I want to see this fight happen or not. It has the potential to end up either really awesome or really terrible.
whynotboth
Sal, stop, you are being a terrible friend right now! Marcie is working security, what are you thinking putting her in a position like this? This could be a breaking point for the one friendship she is leaning so heavily on.
Also really hoping this is the moment Sal figures out what her history with Amber/Amazagirl is.
“C’mon, c’mon, I want you to do it, I want you to do it. C’mon, hit me. HIT ME!”
Off-topic but in other ways not so:
http://www.asos.com/Tell-Tails/Tell-Tails-Dinosaur-Tail/Prod/pgeproduct.aspx?iid=6853596&r=2
Australian store ASOS is selling strap-on dinosaur tails! Someone get one for Dina!
Combine that with the other type of strap-on and you’d have a Slipshine. A much better one than the (not going to ever ever happen) one involving this strip’s characters that some commentors love to clamor for.)
Amber starting to cry and hesitate is too specific a character beat for it not to be massively significant.
I am, particularly, really glad that she’s still capable of showing restraint even when she has everything she needs to be morally justified in attacking Sal.
I’m pretty sure the reason she’s hesitating is because she realized she’s NOT morally justified in attacking (or stalking) Sal, no matter how hard she tried to convince herself otherwise.
She’s morally justified according to her own rules. Sal hit her first, so that means Sal is definitely the Vile Criminal Scum and Amber can unload righteous vengeance upon her.
But she’s getting less tense. Her eyes are widening, her posture is straightening out. It ends with her crying. She has what she thinks she wants, to fight someone she doesn’t consider human, and she’s not taking it.
I dunno, I’m with pjeseb. I think she’s hesitating because she’s realizing she’s wrong and what she’s doing isn’t justified. Sal has put up with her literally stalking her and becoming an unwarranted source of stress in Sal’s life. Sal only flipped her because she got sick of it and snapped, which is really justified IMO. Amber saying ‘Sal struck first so I can hit her.’ is about as logical as a dude that’s been stalking a chick and the chick hitting him (because she snaps) saying, ‘Well she hit me first so it’s okay if I retaliate.’ I’ve been stalked before and if I were a braver and stronger person, Lord knows there were times I wanted to scream and lash out at the guy who had a habit of showing up EVERYWHERE I went. Sal is a stronger and braver person, she’s been patient dealing with her stalker until now but now she’s at the breaking point and just wants to fight so AG will leave her alone. I think AG is understanding that from what Sal said about her having it out for Sal. Plus she probably feels conflicted since Sal is echoing Blaine’s words.
I hadn’t considered how Sal demanding she fight her echoing Blaine. That is actually a really good theory.
Amber has done a lot of wrong shit to Sal, but she feels justified in all of it because Sal “took” Amber’s sanity, Amazi-Girl’s dignity, and their Danny. She doesn’t feel bad stalking Sal because all she’s doing is making sure the Violent Criminal Scum can be properly fought once she inevitably commits some dastardly act of violence that she will inevitably fall to
She has and she thinks she should, but I think Sal not falling into the Violent Criminal Scum role is throwing her. That’s where the doubts are coming from.
Doubts. A weakness to Amazi-Girl. She needs to purge them. Send all the doubts and weakness to Amber. Amazi-Girl is pure and righteous.
Well, technically right now Sal is being the Violent Criminal Scum in Amazi-Girl Logic, because Sal struck first while Amazi-Girl was “just making sure” Sal wasn’t up to something.
I personally like to believe it’s just Amber hesitating because she’s subconsciously recognizing how inherently wrong all of this is, but the idea of being called upon to prove her mettle the way Blaine did earlier, I like that too.
How did you get the guy to stop stalking you?
The robbery (and, more importantly, Amber being unable to protect Ethan from Sal’s ad-hoc attempt at escalation) was mostly the final straw in the breaking of Amber’s psyche.
The thing about Sal and Amber that I consider ironic and more than a little sad is the fact that the fateful night of the convenience store job was the final straw for both of their lives in different ways. I suspect that if they were both able to look beyond their anger and pain, they’d realise that they’re more alike than they realise and that any differences between them are simply due to their coping strategies rather than anything more fundamental.
IT WAS A JOKE!!! When we talked about Dumbing of Age by Frank Miller the other day were WERE JOKING!!!! THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING!!!
Well I recall something about Willis being able to see into the future, but only for the comment section here, or something like that.
That’s like the worst super power ever.
Yes it is XD
We could make it a useful power by posting a summary of the daily news in the comment section.
Better yet, lottery numbers. 🙂
I didn’t bother with that joke, ’cause do you think he’ll still do the comic then?
You fool! You must never warp Fates magic beyond
the scope for which it was designed! Are you trying to
invoke Paradox?
(Bad Mage: the Awakened joke)
I like the last panel face. Looks like a peridot
If you’re an active part of the fight Marcie is gonna have to kick you out too, gal.
I was trying to pinpoint why Amazi-Girl is getting all shakey looking and then I realized: Sal’s egging her on is very much Blaine. Perhaps this is getting to her, considering the last time she met up with Blaine and the result.
Oh shit, you’re right. It’s meant with a different intent than Blaine’s abuse, but to Amber, it’s the same thing.
…that might actually be even worse.
That might actually be Amber that goes ahead and attacks Sal.
Anyone else notice the heart in Amazi-Girl’s eye in the last panel?
I just noticed it after reading your comment, because I think it’s unintentional, given that the hearts-in-eyes symbol thing hasn’t been used very much by Willis at all up to this point.
is there an emoji for waiting apprehensively? because omg!
Is there an emoji for shitting your pants out of fear and worry, because…. um… yeah, that might have happened to someone I know.
A single one? idk, but you can probably put a small string together.
Nah, I prefer boxers.
At the end, Amber wants to hurt and kill Sal.
Amazi-Girl knows she’s an innocent.
Can Amazi-Girl defeat Amber?
We can only hope.
I’m pretty sure you’ve got that backwards. As hard as she is on herself, i’m convinced that Amber has always been the good one.
Amazi-Girl was supposed to be able to handle the stuff Amber couldn’t, but dealing exclusively with the things that freak her out has not had a great effect on AG. Amber is the one who feels ashamed of every angry outburst, and who keeps collecting red flashback panels each time. She’s even frightened by how much she enjoyed hitting her father, and he sure as hell deserved it
That’s iffy, FartCaptor. AG is getting worse, but she’s always held to her code, always held back from more than bruises and concussions, and at least believes she’s helping people.
Amber, OTOH, is saddled with her father’s violent rages. It’s Amber who stabbed Sal in the hand. Amber always tries to let AG do her fighting – because, when Amber fights, she flies into a rage, and holds nothing back. She’s far more likely to do serious damage to an opponent than AG.
Amber isn’t the one stalking or threatening Sal. She has had a panic attack every time she’s had to interact with Sal as Amber. Amazi-Girl is the one running around beating people up, because the whole reason she exists is act as an outlet for the feelings Amber is afraid of.
If you go back and look, a lot of those rage-y moments are even tagged Amazi-Girl.
I think the issue is there’s two Ambers. There’s Amber the person who is BOTH Amazi-Girl and Amber the Persona.
Amazi-Girl is everything good, decent, courageous, and compassionate about her.
Amber the persona is a psychopath. Basically a female Blaine in the making who hides her hate and anger in a subdued nerdy persona.
The problem is Danny assumes Amber is the good one when she’s really the violent hateful one.
That’s my take at least.
Except that’s not really true. That’s how Amber thinks about it. Amber tries to push all the bad stuff onto Amber and keeps AG righteous, but as Fart Captor said, it’s AG who’s been stalking Sal. It’s AG who tried to provoke a fight earlier. It’s AG who broke up with Danny for talking to Sal.
Amber has that rage and can’t control it, so she usually hands it to AG to channel it into righteous fury, but when it’s too personal she can’t. Which does bode ill for this fight.
But other than that, I don’t see any reason to think Amber’s a psychopath. Other than when dealing with her abuser and her trigger, that persona’s shown very few signs of hate and anger. Most of her interaction with Dina’s been as Amber and that’s been nice and helpful. When she’s interacted with Danny as Amber, little of it has shown problems – she snapped at him once and immediately apologized and berated herself. The Amber persona definitely has anger issues and a serious self-esteem problem – made worse by how she’s disassociating, but no signs of anything like psychopathy.
Overall though, AG’s been getting more distinct, more dangerous and creepier – particularly with Sal, but even with her recent broad daylight attack on the pursesnatcher. She may be more controlled, but she’s also getting stricter on her rules (partly so she can justify attacks on Sal) and harsher when she does so.
Yeah, Amber is influencing Amazi-Girl. Amazi-Girl thinks she can keep all of the evil bottled up in the monstrous little nerd girl but she can’t and it’s warping her good side.
Yes, Amber is just one bottle of acid away from being Two Face.
I think the two have been fused together in one almighty shit storm of a personality.
Breaking that apart, or rebuilding a usable personality out of that is going to be interestng.
I also think Amber in the final panel is angry at Sal who refuses to act the way she wants. Students are a cowardly and superstitious lot but Sal is neither.
Intensity intensifies
S-she’s scared.
Just as AG tenses to attack, Beef grabs her from behind, wrestles her to the ground. Apparently he’s also a security intern, plainclothes.
Sal: HEY! Ah was gonna –
*Marcie pulls on her arm*
Sal: Yeah, all right, ah’m stoppin’…
(Marcie leads Sal away as Beef pulls AG away, still struggling. Marcie and Beef both look back at each other. Marcie give ‘thumbs up’, Beef grunts back.)
I think I might have a new crack ship – Marcie/Beef. I call them ‘More Than Words’. Opinions welcome!
Beef is one of the dudebros who Amazi-Girl saved Danny from. Marcie can do so much better
Now it’s Breakfast Club flashbacks.
I hated that principal.
I know cooler heads should prevail, but am I the only one who wants to see this?
The last panel is AG about to crack. “Come on, attack” is an echo of Blaine berating Amber for not attacking Sal. So who is the nemesis here? Blaine or Sal? Depends who is in charge of that body right now. Sal might be Amber’s nemesis, but AG exists in response to Blaine. Will AG refuse to act on Blaine’s commands or will Amber give in and appease her abusive sperm donor.
My guess is that no blows get thrown. AG leaves the scene and Sal gets in trouble for being black. No fight. No resolution either. The drama continues.
“Come on, hit me! I want you too!”
Aaaand the events of two strips ago are why a superhero should never wear a cape. Edna was right.
I think this is my second comment on this site, but after reading some of the discussions, I want to chime in with a story.
I once knew a guy who ran a dispensary (before it was legal) and one day he was robbed. From what I remember him telling me, a couple of black guys on something came into his store and robbed him point blank with guns. Obviously he was traumatized after this. I only knew him after this happened, but he used this event to justify being racist, and this isn’t me inferring, this is him literally saying that he was scared of/hated black people because one had a gun in his face and he almost died.
Despite this, I’m pretty sure he was still friends with the black guy who was in the fraternity he founded before. I’m also sure that if the men had been Jews dressed up in full Hasidic attire, he still would have spent time with the fraternity (he wasn’t Jewish but the fraternity he founded was and more than half of us were Jewish) and not had the same response to Jews.
Now I’m not criticizing him for having PTSD or triggers (both are understandable). I tell this story because its very similar to what Amber went through. The number of people saying Amber isn’t racist or isn’t doing this because of race and just hates Sal are forgetting that Sal is black and that was literally all Amber knew about her.
I know its a contentious issue, but this comic has pointed out that not all racists twirl their cartoon mustaches. Is Amber going to go around attacking every person of color? I doubt it. Is it probably coloring her responses to Sal? You bet it is.
I can imagine how that could make black people scary if you didn’t know many before, but that’s wow that’s a blunt way to describe it.
Amber definitely seems to have latched onto the other thing she knew about Sal: she was a criminal. Harder to say how its affected her perception of black people, since she barely leaves her room or talks to people she doesn’t already know.
We know that it made her vaguely suspicious of Walky, but they look enough alike that it’s not definitive. Her interaction with Malaya was not friendly, but that’s
not definitive either since she was interacting with Malaya. She never seemed to have any issue with Sarah, who she’s interacted with a couple times (as both Amber and Amazi-Girl), so it doesn’t seem like it has
She may not be racist, but it’s not too much of a stretch to say that incident may have colored her perception. Look at what you stated. Nothing cut and dry but that’s quite a bit of circumstantial evidence. Saying that she doesn’t seem to have issues with Sarah doesn’t really work when she’s only interacted with her a few times. That’s close to someone saying they aren’t racist because they have a (minority here) friend, isn’t it?
I mean, there really hasn’t been any indication either way as to how her perceptions have been coloured. Walky sets the corners of her brain on fire because he looks exactly like Sal.
Since when has “Person A hates person B, person B is black, therefore person A is racist,” been considered strong evidence of racism?
If everyone is considered racist until proven otherwise, then I suppose Amber is racist. Along with everyone in this comments section.
Oh its definitely still possible. Since Amber is such a recluse, there’s not nearly enough evidence to be certain.
On the one hand, it did affect her interaction with Walky, so it clearly is affecting how she sees people other than Sal, but on the other, the effect was extremely mild and she seemed to overcome it pretty easily, so it doesn’t seem like it should be much of an issue.
Then again, it also seems like something that could become a bigger problem the longer it takes to resolve her issues with Sal.
As Fart Captor says, the difference between Amber and the guy you knew is that Amber’s never said anything about being scared of or hating black people. She’s never shown any signs of it other than Sal.
Amber knows more about Sal than just “Sal is black.” Amber knows that Sal held her friend hostage while trying to rob a store. Which is something that, unfairly or not, does tend to color others’ perceptions of a person.
The reason why I don’t think Amber is racist is because SAL IS THE ONLY PERSON SHE TREATS THIS WAY. She isn’t this way with Sarah or Walky or anyone else.
pleasenoredpanelspleasenoredpanelspleasenoredpanelspleasenoredpanels
I can hope, right?
If there are red panels, there will probably be violence, and if there are red panels at all in this scene, it’ll be in response to something like THIS.
So, if there are no red panels tomorrow, I will get to exhale.
Don’t exhale until the arc is over.
Also, red panels tomorrow, calling it now.
They should just make out, I’ve seen enough to know that bitter rivalries like these always lead straight into bone city.
KICK HER ASS SAL
Don’t start nothin, won’t be nothin…..but Amber started it anyway
Hey be fair, all Amber did was stalk Sal all day!
wait no
Has it been a goal to make Amber less sympathetic and more unlikable?
She’s currently undergoing a catastrophic mental breakdown and feeding into paranoid delusions regarding Sal and her own belief that she’s doomed to becoming her father.
Like, yeah, she’s been a raging jackass for the last few months, but I think a scene wherein Amber starts crying when she’s about to fight Sal means we’re starting to see a turnaround.
I really hope so. I like Amber and I don’t see how she stays at all sympathetic if she goes much further. For some here, I think she’s already crossed a line she can’t come back from.
Ruth used to routinely kick the shit out of Billie and then sexually assaulted her, and there’s a large amount of people who aren’t me who like her and want her and Billie to have secret lesbian babies.
Amber will be fine in the end. She just needs to stop acting like a butthole.
Theres different rules for different people in this comic that’s for sure
What I am saying is that Ruth was a massive asshole with little in the way of redeeming qualities and when she stopped being a shithead and got her act together, people started to like her.
We’ve spent years focusing on Amber being a fundamentally moral, decent person who strives to do good and reject what she’s convinced she’s doomed to become. Seeing her now fuck things up because her mental disorder has progressed to the point where we don’t get to pretend it’s cute anymore doesn’t somehow mean she’s gone and pulled a Heel Turn.
I think Sals in big trouble here, like legal issues trouble because she attacked someone, in front of witnesses, with no provocation and is now using threatening language on that person to try to provoke a fight
I doubt it. I don’t think most people saw her actually pull her down. And I don’t think the police would see much reason to get involved as long as security is holding her back. She or they would be ejected.
It’s not as if AG would stick around to press charges. She’s kinda wanted by the police.
That’s true if nothing happens but if something does the witnesses will probably just say what they saw or heard and that won’t be good for Sal because she instigated this
“oh no….im…….
a racist”