I’m surprisingly okay with the idea of a series of book titles just consistently adding to the “Hey everyone, I’m a lesbian” book.
Like next could be that. And then after “hey everyone, I’m a lesbian and I have a girlfriend and I have a job now” followed by “hey everyone, I’m a lesbian and I have a girlfriend and I have a job and I’m enrolled in college now” and then eventually the last book “hey everyone, Dina and Becky Saruyama here live at the dig site, I’m a lesbian, *mic drop*”
And even if I managed to invent some sort of 4th wall gun and bring Becky to the real world, she would still be a Lesbian. You could say that if I was able to invent a gun that made characters real, I could probably invent some sort of a straight ray. However ignoring the horrific moral implications of that, it would make Becky not Becky and as such is not a viable option.
The solution is simple. If you can make a straight ray, you can probably also make a gender-changing ray. Just make yourself female, and then you can be eligible to date Becky.
Except that she’s dating Dina (and friends with Joyce), and probably wouldn’t thank you for yanking her out of her universe. But hey, a person can dream…
Been reading it for years. It’s still odd how well adjusted those kids are considering how crazy their lives are. Even Dan snuck a comment in about it.
I mean, yeah, “you have been through hell and I am doing my best to support you, but I have also been threatened at gunpoint, faced with losing my family, I ditched my values, completely remade them, and even now I’m doing my best to do things that only help you and go against my judgment, STILL, and I really just want you to do this one thing to help make sure we’re not caught.”
“I’M NOT GONNA DO THE THING CAUSE I’M A WACKY DOODLE!”
Joyce grew up and modified her values not as some disingenuous “sacrifice” to Becky, but because it was the right thing to do. Because she genuinely can’t continue to believe that gay people are literally sinners who deserve eternal torture and pain and suffering when it is someone so close to her who has that “affliction”. She stands by her against her family, because it really does piss her off that the rest of her culture can’t see that Becky is a person. Because she can’t understand why they would hand-wave someone literally pointing a gun at her to whine about gay people and how it’s the worst thing ever to support them.
She didn’t “ditch her values” because Becky demanded it and then whine and bongo and give nothing or as some gesture. But because she realized that the values she was given were wrong and she was no longer able to agree with them. And it’s a crucial part of growing up to ditch her values because the values she started with were disgusting.
Let us not forget that the values Joyce has espoused at times have included Jews are halfway Christians who can be pushed all the way over with effort, gay people can be cured of their sin through chaste Christian love and hard work, a person who has sex is literally being stripped of value and is like a flower being mangled, and aggressive gender enforcement is important to keep people from becoming gay or queer.
These values needed to die. Would have had to have died. And if it wasn’t for Becky’s coming out, it would have been something like Dorothy’s confrontation that would have triggered it.
And it is disingenuous to a disgusting degree to pretend that this “sacrifice” is at all equal between Becky and Joyce and that Becky has not bled to an exorbitant degree for Joyce with far more literal sacrifices.
And doubly so to pretend this is some singular request on Joyce’s part cashing in the favors of no longer believing she’s a sin-bound monster rather than a symptom of her freaking the fuck out because holy shit, she’s breaking a real law for reals, literally nothing in her life has prepared her for a rebellion this intense and big and so she’s flailing.
Also, Becky shows a lot of effort trying to calm her down before going full Becky at the end, so it’s not like Joyce made a singular calm request to not get her arrested and Becky said fuck you to that.
Becky is by no means perfect and is definitely not the type to overthink her choices, but this weird alien reading of the comic so far is just foreign as fuck to me.
Why are you completely invalidating Joyce’s growth as a person? Roz flair definitely accurate, as she did the SAME exact thing in the gender studies class.
You are not actually tolerant of LGBT individuals. This seems like an insult, but it’s just a fact. Tolerance means you fundamentally disagree with the things these individuals do, but you do not attack or denigrate them in any way and you respect their ability to believe what they believe. Do you dislike LGBT people in any way? Then why is your acceptance of LGBT people noteworthy or tolerant in any way?
Joyce was raised to despise these people. If she changes her beliefs to accept all people, regardless of whether she agrees with their attitudes and beliefs or not, that’s actually huge. She should be praised for accepting Ethan and Becky despite her upbringing and conscience telling her not to. She should be praised for standing up to her parents and her upbringing when she rescues Becky (Damn it!) and when she defends her choice of Dorothy as a friend by being tolerant towards her atheism.
You have a journey of your own personal growth to go on before you can really understand why Joyce’s personal journey is important and praiseworthy and not just a passe little story about The Girl Who Thought The Wrong Thing But Then Learned It Was Wrong And Started Thinking The Right Thing Instead And It Was Wholly Unremarkable And Fully Expected And Took Very Little Effort.
I see this attitude a lot from my fundamentalist Christian acquaintances – apparently the Left doesn’t understand the right values to believe in! – but at least they are respectful of people’s backgrounds and consider it to be fundamentally important when people change their beliefs into what they perceive as the right thing. And I think that everyone should have that attitude; a change in belief is difficult and momentous, and for it to be totally invalidated like “yeah but it would have been so much better if you’d been doing it all along!” is really insensitive.
I don’t think that’s what they were saying. They were more upset at the use of the term “sacrifice” and the implication that Becky should have to do something to repay Joyce for her acceptance or that she hasn’t also gone through hell for Joyce.
Joyce has done some great things for her friends and has shown a lot of growth, but that’s part of being a decent human and a good friend. While her acts of bravery and willingness to change should be commended, she shouldn’t be inordinately praised just because she came from a bigoted home. It was never suggested that her change was insignificant, but that it shouldn’t be viewed as a “sacrifice.”
And look, the word “tolerant” is not exactly a pleasant word to hear from someone. Being told you’re “tolerated” is not a good feeling.
Also, what’s with the assertion that the poster has not gone on a journey of personal growth?
This is hard for Joyce. I’m so proud of Joyce for her growth and she reminds me a lot of friends who were raised in that same toxic stew who have been lifelong friends, seeing how they’re toxic stew they were served failed to include me and other important people in their life and grew.
What Joyce is doing fundamentally is praise-worthy, because of the start she had to the whole issue.
But that doesn’t mean Becky owes jack all for her for said struggle, because in reality, Becky is just the catalyst of the struggle. The reminder of the cost the type of beliefs Joyce grew up with and the impetus to take the hard effort to change.
This is about Joyce growing for herself, not some disingenuous “gift” to Becky that she expects slavish obedience for. And that idea that queerfolk get from time to time that we owe our oppressors gifts if they aren’t as oppressive as other oppressors is actually a real and common one.
See all the bigots who wanted to be praised by gay folks because sure, they weren’t allowing people to get married, but they “evolved” enough to “let” them have civil unions. Or all the anti-trans people now wanting us to refrain calling them bigots, because sure, they may be denying us housing and intentionally misgendering us and bullying us, but hey, they didn’t stab us like they want, so we owe them courtesy.
And agree with Kitty so much that “tolerant” is a red flag. It tells the marginalized group member not that they have an ally, but they have someone who’ll demand favors and praise and will eel away from any active support. That the person in question will continuously threaten to “jump ship” and join the abusers if the marginalized group member is not deferential and reverent enough towards them. And thus it’s usually a lie.
“Tolerant” usually just means they’re a bigot, they want to work against you and rant about how awful you are and maybe even kill you, but they recognize that it is not socially approved to be a bigot and so they’re begrudgingly not killing you, but they’re really looking for any excuse, any reason at all to withdraw their non-existant “support” and blame it on how the marginalized group member is the “real bully”.
And sorry to go off on you about that, but I really think it’s disgusting to frame that not hating someone because of their identity is somehow a favor that the person not hated owes something in return for.
Cause, no, my humanity as a member of a lot of marginalized identities should not be in constant service to those people in society who don’t kill me today. In fact, I should expect full and equal treatment as my right as a human being. And if people need to adjust how they’ve been taught to hate those like me to do so, then yes, they should. Cause that’s what makes them non-bigots.
When I was reading the list of character changes s/he gave above, I assumed they were all about Becky and got confused at the end, because Becky has also done all those things, many of them without the support of friends or the assurance of available food and shelter. It was kind of comical to read the thing framed through Joyce’s experience when Becky is RIGHT THERE, GOING THROUGH all the things Joyce is having trouble dealing with *watching*.
I do sympathise with the frustration, though. As both a person who has self-sabotaging habits because of a culturally marginalised status and a person who has friends with self-sabotaging habits, I do sometimes want to shake Becky by the neck and shout “IT’S GOING FINE, WOULD YOU PLEASE STOP BEING AN OBNOXIOUS ASS.” Partly because I can’t stand obnoxiousness of that type (Walky also grates on me) and partly because of an uncomfortable identification with her.
I always enjoy reading your to-the-point and carefully considered words in situations like this. I understand that can be read as sarcasm so I will say that I mean this genuinely and from the bottom of my heart. You so often perfect articulate the feeling or thoughts that I had and with a greater restraint and poise than I would have managed.
Heh, I have had similar situations to this with my best friend, where she is like ‘oh god please don’t say the thing’ and then I am like ‘what, THIS THING THAT I’M SAYING LOUDLY NOW? THIS THING?’ and then she is ‘yes that thing omg I am going to smack you.’
Becky knows that she can’t actually get in trouble for breaking into her own home, and that any neighbors about are gonna be mildly annoyed by some dipshit yelling at worst and probably won’t even wake up. There’s no risk in what she’s doing. Some of us just show our love through being the most annoying, contrary buttheads we can, because sometimes doing the worst thing shows everyone that it wasn’t really that bad in the first place. <3
Hmm, that’s an interesting point and it makes me think of Mike and Becky. Mike is abusive to his friends and anyone in his vicinity and is frequently cited by commenters as “making people better by being an asshole” even though he has only hurt and alienated people and made their issues so much worse (convincing Amber/AG not to reach out to friends about her emotions, convincing Ethan to go back into the closet and try to be straight). Whereas Becky doesn’t intend to do that, but her outbursts of wackiness have unintentionally been of great benefit to Joyce.
I’m thinking specifically about Joyce freaking out about Becky being out and proud or freaking out about her dating a non-christian or about her dating a girl and Becky shrugging off the freak out and doing what she does has accidentally forced Joyce to have to grow to deal with it.
Let her get from “no one must know you’re a lesbian” to “smiling when you kiss your dinosaur girlfriend”. Let her get from “Becky no being in the halls” to “Becky can coordinate my room party”. Let her get from “I must never be bad by breaking rules” to “Maybe sometimes it’s okay to get angry at one’s parents or lie to an authority figure or do something I was told I was wrong.”
Every time Becky has shrugged off a Joyce freak out, Joyce has grown from it (completely by accident).
So it’s interesting that Mike gets this love for a thing he’s not doing whereas a character accidentally doing an even milder form of that gets hated because she’s queer and “annoying”.
Interesting… I didn’t even consider that Becky’s earnestness was working against her in that way. But I can definitely see that for Mike. It’s “ugh, I was being sarcastic, bro” as a character trait.
I’ll say exactly one nice thing about Mike, because I feel like it’s deserved:
He definitely was trying to convince Ethan not to pretend to be straight. The rest are just him being shitty (I mean, I know why people say it’s not, but I don’t think it’s supported in the text itself), but that was him genuinely trying to convince Ethan to not pretend to be straight. He was phrasing everything the way he did to make it sound like a bad thing, and at the very end, when Ethan comes to the conclusion that he should, in fact, pretend to be straight, his only response is a big “wow”, a bone he graciously threw the audience so we could see that, for sure and this one time, he isn’t actually positing the horrible thing is a good idea. I don’t know why he had it in his head this would work, and it’s the only time I can see that he was trying not to bring something bad about, though.
Mind that I like the kid for /failing/ to raise everyone’s hackles and overall more just being annoying than the puppetmaster I feel like he see shimself as XD
Hell yes, I like seeing him thwarted, especially by Dorothy, but I get sad to see her having to deal with his shit as the background radiation of dating Walky.
Quietly making noise, making noise
Pissin’ off the old killjoys
Glass packs on a hot Mustang —
A Telecaster with a twang.
Quietly, quietly, quietly making noise! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASDb7aA8vJo
Tip the glasses, crack the plates
That’s what Bilbo Baggins hates
That’s what Bilbo Baggins hates
So carefully, carefully, with the plates
Blunt the knives and bend the forks
Smash the bottles, turn the corks
That’s what Bilbo Baggins hates
So carefully, carefully, with the plates!
She could learn stealth from Dina. I mean, if Dina can stand right next to people while dressed in a Tricera-Top and people don’t notice her, she could totally teach her skills to Becky.
Sorry. I couldn’t control myself. I’ve been awake for 30 hours and the caffeine hasn’t properly worn off yet. I really shouldn’t have watched all of the Lord of the Rings extended edition movies in a row, but I was in the mood for some good ole’ Orc killing, and only J R R Tolkien and Peter Jackson can deliver that properly. I should probably not be at a keyboard or computer at the moment.
Actually technically breaking into your own house is legal, just frowned upon. I was bad at remembering keys throughout high school so I figured out plenty of break in tactics.
Also my friends mum, when our “break in” involved one of us falling through their shed roof and nearly impaling themselves on garden implements… We were young enough to find that hilarious, but in retrospect that was pretty dumb…
Frowned upon because sometimes you get someone who doesn’t know you live there and they call the police trying to be a good neighbor. And then the cops waste their time checking it out.
Also from your parents. My mom used to get upset when my sister would break into our house because she was like, “You’re just showing everyone how to do it!”
And once we broke the window doing it. Oops.
But… no seriously don’t draw attention to yourselves right now. You are actually planning to do something covert and if any of your neighbors liked your dad, they could call the police and screw you over.
Not a huge stretch considering they’re part of a fundie group. Exhibit A: Joyce’s mom defending Toedad, and also making disparaging comments to Becky about sending her father to prison.
I believe Joyce no longer identifies as being a “Religious Fundamentalist”. Admitted, I don’t know if any fundies identify as such, it may just be what non-fundies call them. Well, the non-offensive thing that they’re called.
Gonna go out on a limb and assume just about no one liked Becky’s dad. Hank implied the family only associated with him because they were friends with his late wife, and unless everyone in the neighborhood is a hardcore evangelical (unlikely, even when I lived in the south I’d say that was 25% of people max), they probably had even less common ground with him.
You’d be surprised how much people will like you if they never see the crazy. My step-mom is the worst but people who have only had casual conversations with her would never know. They think she’s sweet.
Becky is probably KNOWN, though, and being locked out of the house isn’t unknown. The two blondes might be a problem, but if no one KNOWS about Toedad or anything Becky could speech her way into saying something akin to ‘I’m back on break; I don’t have a key, just getting in, don’t mind me!’ – That rhymes, so it’s true!
Yeah, except the people of the neighborhood probably are more of the “harass the lesbian for being a sinner” type than “friendly understanding neighbor” type. Especially considering her shouting.
Oh, I guarantee that Becky is known to them all. After all, Mrs. Brown knew the basic story before Joyce called her that evening, so I bet they all heard. They probably would call the cops on her, but the reality is that in Indiana she would have legal right to get into her dad’s house. In fact, she probably can get the sheriff to help her get in. This is because it was her residence of record and in order to change that Ross had to serve her with an eviction notice, after which point she would lose her right to be there 30 days after getting served her eviction notice. The only other way she would lose her residency there was to abandon that resudency for 30 days (and no, being away at college does not count). Trust me on this.
for some reason i’m suspecting joe because of that one time she texted him an apology is class and he texted back–maybe they’ve kept up a weird secret correspondence?
i don’t know why it would be kept a secret if it were dorothy, though; we’ve seen texts between them before, and we know she’s joyce’s best friend besides becky–it seems too obvious to be dorothy!
Well, but in a previous comment, Dorothy said she was texting with Joyce. I don’t know that Joyce has enough time to keep up two text correspondences in this level of detail AND keep up with Becky and deal with her family.
Dorothy said she was going to check in with Joyce – that’s not the phrasing that I would use if I were having an intricate ongoing text conversation. That’s the phrasing I’d use if I told a friend going into a stressful situation ‘hey text me if you need me’ and then I didn’t get a text.
Sure it is. Could mean she’s going check her accumulated text messages (not everyone lives in a state of Continuous Texting); could mean she’s read something that’s triggered a need for a direct conversation.
99% sure it’s Dorothy. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/checkingin/
Even though she says “checking in,” I doubt she would tell Walky too many details (Joyce probably wouldn’t be too happy about that).
I also doubt Joyce would be willing to talk to anyone other than Dorothy or maybe Ethan about this stuff. As friendly and open as she is, she doesn’t seem too keen on sharing a lot of her darker thoughts with many people.
Remember, Joyce and Becky have been BFFs for like always. The reason Joyce is so aghast in the last panel is that she’s afraid people will think that SHE is the girlfriend.
I don’t know, but people used to think stegosaurii had a second brain in their asses. I’m a bit unclear on what their reason was for that belief, but I’m sure it made perfect sense at the time.
Something something large body something something extra locomotive center to move it or something like that. I can’t really remember. That could also just be Pacific Room chewing chips loudly in the corner of my brain again, being obnoxious and making me lose track of who said what.
Their skeletons had an enlarged area of the spine near the hips that people thought housed a second brain that controlled the back half of the body because they thought that their walnut sized brains wouldn’t be able to send signals that far down their spines or something.
WITH CATLIKE TREAD!
UPON OUR PREY WE STEAL!
IN SILENCE DREAD!
OUR CAUTIOUS WAY WE FEEL!
NO SOUND AT ALL!
WE NEVER SPEAK A WORD!
A FLY’S FOOTFALL WOULD BE DISTINCTLY HEARD!
I am not at all embarrassed to say that I immediately knew from where those lines had come… and feel obligated to add these:
Carefully on tiptoe stealing, Breathing gently as we may,
Every step with caution feeling, We will softly steal away.
(foot stamps)
Goodness me — Why, what was that?
(solo voice)
Silent be — It was the cat!
“Some time later Joyce and Becky return to the university”
“Joyce, Becky! It’s good to see you folks….Joyce, is something wrong?”
“No, why do you ask?”
“Well the expression on your face says something else.”
“Oh that, Becky can tell you about it.”
“I told I was sorry!”
(I’d bet Joe, because them hooking up (hmmm or being besties, actually) in the future would be good symbolic character development for both of them, but I’d also have a long-odds flutter on Roz).
Given that Joe can’t even properly talk with his roommate/one of his best friends, I doubt he’d be very helpful to Joyce. I also doubt she’d talk to Roz, who seems more interested in chastising than helping.
I’m pretty sure it’s just gonna be Dorothy or something.
Ah, wrong Fundamentalist Christians. Joyce’s brother driving a brand new Mustang given to him by the Church marks them of disciples of the Prosperity Gospel. God showers riches upon the upright and devout while punishing sinners by making them poor.
I have this image of the police getting called, showing up. Joyce, Becky, and Jocelyn explain what’s going on. The police unlock the door for them (because Becky’s lawful residence). As the cops leave, they say “just call us or the fire department next time, okay?”
Becky is humming the mission impossible theme the entire time.
The police have keys to every house. They just don’t like to talk about it. If they did they might find it harder to lounge about in your house when you’re away.
Why. Why would you do this. To make Joyce uncomfortable? Or because you actually want to get caught doing this thing that needs to get done. C’mon dude.
Fair enough, I just don’t find the ‘Becky does thing to make Joyce uncomfortable’ gag to be funny anymore, especially when Joyce is trying to help Becky.
For reasons not shown, that you have to accept as-given-in-Narrarative ,
Becky has a lifetime free pass ( by Joyce ) to be obnoxious and take Joyce out of her comfort zone. That Joyce wouldn’t accept from someone else.
Shes grandfathered-claused in. Its a given for Narrative and Humor purposes.
If Willis wants to tell this backstory, what becky did to deserve such Loyalty from Joyce, he will.
Inappropriate here, but 99/100 joyce probably needs a litle ribbing, and becky is the only who can do it — without Joyce feeling persecuted.
If Becky actually lived her life to make Joyce comfortable, she’d have to have a different haircut, and stay closeted, and not have sex, and not learn biology. never challenge authority figures, not kiss Dina.
it would be never-ending.
This is a very solid point! I suppose since I haven’t seen very much of the relationship between Becky and Joyce prior to Becky’s return, I wasn’t really sure what to think about how Becky treated her.
For me on a personal level, I’ve never been about anyone having exclusive rights to make you uncomfortable. Since I don’t know their relationship beyond what I’ve seen, all I’m aware of is that Becky is supportive during times of hardship, but can be quite inconsiderate of Joyce’s feelings when things are going OK.
I always interpreted Joyce’s acceptance of Becky’s intentional ribbing as begrudging acceptance, since we all have been in a place where we put up with someone’s behavior despite our own feelings because we love them; usually these types of relationships are regrettable in the long one, or at least have been in my experience.
But you’re right. If we assume that when becky bugs Joyce about things to get a rise out of her that it’s al in good fun, Becky seems like a much better person. I suppose that’s what being a best friend can be sometimes, but Joyce’s character is very high-strung, so it’s always hard to tell what’s meant to be comedic and what’s actually a problem to her.
And you’re right, Becky shouldn’t live her life to conform to Joyce’s comfort. becky deserves to be out, to explore science and sex, and to look however she chooses. These are things that may make Joyce uncomfortable, but they’re none of her business, and i would never argue otherwise. Seeing Becky rib Joyce and it being OK because they’re best friends leaves a bad taste in my mouth though, as I dont know their relationship well enough to interpret it as Ok.
Maybe if I had read Willis’ other comics I would have a different attitude towards the relationship, but as I’ve seen it, there have been questionable interactions between the two of them that have given me pause as to ask if this was really a good friendship. Discussions like these help clarify or give another perspective so I can enjoy the comic and these characters more. So for that, I thank you for your reply.
Well the dynamic goes back to the poop joke in the very first strip, so it comes from long before the haircut or coming out of the closet. We saw more of it when Becky first showed up at IU, before she came out to Joyce.
It’s not something Joyce puts up with, near as I can tell, it’s actually part of their friendship.
and that, I think, is my essential/fundamental point of conflict.
I cannot accept that is okay, that it’s right. I just can’t. Even if Joyce does, even if everyone does, it’s not right by me.
At best I can tolerate it, in the “put up with it” sense (see South Park). But not accept or approve of it.
That behavior is just wrong, no matter when or who, but especially from a “friend.”
My personal belief/opinion/axiom/button.
(“that behavior”, for clarity and in my opinion, being:
“I’m going to mess with you, troll you, poke you, provoke you – not to educate, not to get you to consider your beliefs, but simply to amuse myself and/or others present. Because I think this moment needs a laugh, and you’ve been selected to be the butt of the joke, the punchline – emphasis on ‘punch’.”)
In the context of a coping strategy, something done out of fear (see below) … I can see and understand that, but still think it’s unhealthy and not okay (though not as bad as, oh, Amber’s) and that it would be better for everyone (including Becky herself) if she finds a better one at some point.
At no point is Becky doing anything to deeply bother Joyce. She’s not being mean and I highly doubt she would force Joyce to do anything she knows would cause her great distress. Sure, she’s talked Joyce into doing things, but it’s never been more than a gentle push or reassurance that things will be okay. Sometimes people need that, especially when they come from a background where nonconformity and crazy antics aren’t accepted.
I don’t think she’s trying to genuinely make Joyce uncomfortable. She’s having fun and messing around because she knows Joyce is overreacting. Becky knows the neighbors aren’t going to pay them any mind. She knows nothing will happen if people find out she’s gay. It’s almost a form of sacrifice, I think, for Becky. She knows it will be okay or she knows it has to be dealt with, and she knows Joyce won’t do it, so she might as well rip the bandage off and get it over with herself. If it really, truly bothered Joyce, I don’t think she would take it as much as she does. She’s shown she has no problem letting people know when she’s upset. And if Becky really crossed a line, she would probably realize right away.
They’ve been friends for most of their lives. This is the dynamic of some friendships (I have a few of them myself). It’s not malicious or damaging. If anything, it can be extremely beneficial to someone like Joyce. And from how things have been shown, I’m guessing Becky has just always been a goof.
To my knowledge, no one’s seen much of the Joyce/Becky dynamic before due to that she’s an original character in this ‘verse. Though I do now wonder what she’d be like over in the Walkyverse.
That goes a long way in explaining how the heck you dislike Becky so much. If you thought she was actually being horrible to Joyce, then no wonder! The idea that anyone might think that didn’t even occur to me. It honestly just felt like you hated her for no reason, which is why I was so harsh before. Your claims of her being crappy to people didn’t make sense, since I just completely ignored how she treats Joyce as being “how their friendship works.”
But, yeah, I’m pretty sure that, if Joyce didn’t like it, she would either not be such lifelong friends, or their interactions would be different. In fact, the dynamic I see now is that Becky pushes Joyce out of her comfort zone, which makes me think that’s what has helped her not be such a fundamentalist Fundy.
Becky is FAMILY to Joyce. And not the type that you reluctantly accept due to blood. She sped through months and years that it takes to accept that God might be okay with homosexuality in just a few days. Their relationship has to be absolutely amazing.
I never did.
As noted in previous comments, I have a low tolerance for trolls of any sort. Particularly those who like to troll “friends” and/or family.
(but I acknowledge that’s at least partly a personal issue.)
I’m in a very similar place. People who like to dig on you due to your relationship giving them some sort of pass are not my favorite type of people. To me that seems to be what hurts the most if you’re sensitive to that sort of thing, which I can be. This is why I struggle with Becky and Joyce’s relationship, but as I stated above, maybe Adam Black is correct and the two of them have some sort of understanding. Until it’s truly confirmed though, I’m going to continue to struggle with it.
And now that we’ve seen more of their dynamic, it’s clear why. There’s a lot of care and mutual tenderness and they are both the sort to bleed for their friends. Becky’s jokes are just that, jokes, absent much genuine malice or even maligning of identity. And Joyce’s freakouts have a lot more to do with Becky’s existence and the necessities of her circumstances pulling her out of a lot of comfort zones.
Becky’s earning of loyalty is seen in her being here. In her putting aside her own emotional processing to sit by the roadside and comfort Joyce. In her literally sacrificing herself to be abused to keep Joyce from getting any more triggered and traumatized by Toedad’s gun. In her hiding Joyce’s mom’s emotional abuse cause she knew that would worry and pain Joyce. In her simply taking John and Carol’s literal dehumanizations with grace and aplomb so as to minimize how bad the situation could get. In her trying to follow Carol’s insane rules to minimize the amount of trouble Joyce was getting into standing up for her. In her pushing through her jealousy and her feelings of loss for a relationship that never was to do right by her. In all her check-ins this last week, making sure that Joyce was okay and never alone outside where she could be brutally triggered with no aid. In her giant heart and actions. In the history they’ve shared together.
So Joyce may freak out about jokes like this, but that is not much a discomfort compared to all the ways Becky brings comfort and feelings of safety for her. And if she was honest, the freakout is more the product of how she was raised and the poison twisting at her. Because she was told that things like loud pride, public displays of affection between women, pre-marital hanky-panky, curse words, and so on were tickets to Hell.
It is the freakout of Joyce still adapating and learning to adjust to the world as is.
I agree with a lot of the things you said! As I wrote in an earlier reply, Joyce and Becky’s dynamic seems to be the most supportive and uplifting when things are going poorly. It’s during these moments when the best parts of their friendship come out: when Becky performs an act of heroism by going tight Toedad, or when Joyce risks her parents ire and pull of financial support by taking becky in when she needed her most.
And yes, sometimes Joyce’s reactions are products of Becky’s new identity and behavior clashing with the conditioning Joyce is trying to shake, and on that end the friction that occurs is on Joyce, not Becky (the crowning example is when Joyce yelled at Becky for pursing science with Dina, since it went against her religious background).
However, during points of positive or neutral interaction, Becky’s taunts and jeers can range from things about her sexuality, to anything that can make Joyce squirm, and it’s in that second category that things get uncomfortable. Becky has made a point to say that a lot of the jokes she makes that get Joyce upset are meant to do just that: get Joyce upset.
Joyce has displayed a clear tendency towards anxiety and awkwardness, especially in situations outside her realm of control or familiarity. Becky, who knows this, still chooses to perform actions or say things that will get a rise out of Joyce (that again, don’t have to do with her identity).
It’s during these moments that I feel uncomfortable about their relationship. When the script isnt about Joyce coming to terms with her fucked up opinions clashing with her best friend, but instead in a normal setting, where Joyce is still the butt of “lol look how mad/upset she gets” that’s when their relationship is the ugliest. That’s when I think that Joyce begrudgingly accepts things, rather than being mostly okay with them.
Thank you. I realize that our interpretations vary wildly, and we may not always be able to meet in the middle because our triggers and experiences are much different. Still, it’s nice to know that we can come to a place of mutual acceptance all the same.
I would point out that Becky went with Ross because he had a freaking gun. She was afraid he would shoot someone. She didn’t go with him to prevent Joyce from being triggered. She went with him to prevent Joyce from being dead. Still very much a sacrifice because I believe Ross was perfectly capable of.committing murder to get what he wanted.
Because she’s still overcompensating for a lifetime of being in the closet by making her lesbianism known to as many people as possible, especially the people she was closeted around.
And because she doesn’t think through consequences.
Because Becky ups the wacky when she’s terrified, nervous, and sad.
Like, everyone seems to be assuming that Becky is doing this to get a rise out of Joyce or because she’s proud of being a lesbian, but let us not forget this comic:
Becky’s wacky fun persona gets kicked into hyperdrive when things are scary and awful for her because she feels she has to do that to retain what little support network she has. She is convinced that if she lets herself collapse into a sobbing mess that no one will want to hang out with her.
This is her coping strategy for the massive amount of shit and trauma she’s had to deal with being a teenager with little to nothing to call her own and little training for the adult real world.
And here? She’s standing in front of her old house. A house that represents so much in terms of Toedad’s awfulness, that holds memories of her mother and her old life, that is everything she may never have again and certainly will never have again by blood.
She’s in a neighborhood that probably represents a lot of shame and awfulness for her. She’s been in a town that just represents a giant rejection of her personhood. She’s had two sets of Browns run her through the riot act for being queer and treating her like an unperson. She’s had Joyce acting weird all morning and refusing to tell her what’s going on and why she took the car. And she’s about to break the law.
Becky is shit-sprayingly terrified right now. Possibly even more so than Joyce. And while Joyce responds to stress by trying to gain some measure of control over her surroundings, Becky responds like this, getting louder, wackier, and more defiantly proud of the things she was told to hate.
And the fact that she can keep going through all this trip is bringing up, all that being in front of this house is bringing up is downright heroic.
So let her be a bit wacky. It’s better this than having the mask break now while they’re about to do something of questionable legality.
This is a very good point! I suppose I didn’t think of this because the way Becky is drawn here doesn’t really convey any hidden distress or emotion. The way I saw her is that she looks positively neutral until the last panel, when she realizes that she has an opportunity to make a joke. Still, it doesn’t invalidate your interpretation of the situation, but Author X and Shiro also posed viable answers to my comment which stray away from your analysis. While I’m not positive that your outlook is the definitive one, it was still a fresher, cleaner way to look at the situation. Thank you for putting this much thought into your answer!
Please look forward to my next comment: The value of $20; Are homophobia or classism even real issues anymore?
Yes, but she’s upping the wacky in a way that’s liable to get 2 chars that I like shot and/or arrested, so I don’t have a lot of patience for it. They’re here purely for her, the absolute least she can do is to try to keep them from getting caught.
Arrested? Maybe. But I could easily see Joyce and Jocelyne getting a warning while Becky’s taken to an overnight jail visit and a morning release with “no charges filed”.
Also, it’s not like Becky came up with this plan initially, this is Jocelyne’s show.
Also, it was Joyce who was freaking out and drawing attention until the last panel. Just like every other time Joyce has freaked out about Becky “drawing too much attention to herself”.
And let us not forget that upping the wacky is not exactly something she can control.
That’s what coping strategy means. It’s not what you rationally choose as a best action, it’s the liferaft you cling to in a storm to keep from being swept under the waves.
That’s not really fair. While POC are much more likely to be brutalized by olive officers, it’s not like white people are just immune from it ever happening to them. Moreover members of the LGBT community who are open about who they are are more likely to be attacked regardless of race, meaning that if they were to haul in Becky and Becky alone there’s a good chance they wouldn’t be gentle (although I doubt she would be the only one to go to jail anyway. If the police are going to be bigots they’re not going to ignore Joyce and Joss because they’re straight since they’re helping Becky).
While this was Joss’ idea if Becky was uncomfortable with it or didn’t see the importance of gaining this information she wouldn’t have agreed to it, since she’s very outspoken.
While Joyce is the one who is freaking out in the early panels Becky implies that everything said with regular text has been at whispering-level in the third panel, which makes Becky’s scream at the idea of the neighbors being able to hear them a distinct test of fate.
Whether or not Becky is doing this voluntarily or not really depends on if this is a coping moment or not. While Becky does use humor and bombastic behavior to deflect her true emotions, she also acts in this manner when feeling neutral or genuinely positive. In some of the replies to this thread people chalked up the yell to a need for comedic effect, or a simple loss of impulse control. Even you labeled it act an act of defiance in one of your later comments. Granted, her actions could be explained by one or all of these reasonings, but none of them are definitive until we get more information from later strips.
So, I see Viktoria’s frustrations as valid. While this is an emotional time for Becky, her feelings don’t take precedence over the trio’s safety, or the need for success of this break-in for Becky to be more independent down the line. Thus, the last panel can rage from an unfortunate result of her coping method, to an act of defiance that can be seen as foolish given the current circumstances.
Whoops, missed my proof. Let’s all pretend it says “police” officers in the second sentence, rather than imagining a gang of olives abusing their power.
True on the police harassment of queer folk. I still think Jocelyne and Joyce will be fine in that eventuality though for the reasons you mention, which puts them at little danger compared to Becky. So this whole thing that people are discomforted about Becky doing is something that if it backfires, will almost certainly solely backfire on her. Which is something she’s accepted gracefully when it’s happened. Far more gracefully than I would, certainly.
And yeah, Becky would have spoken up if she had an issue with the plan, but it’s still Jocelyne’s show. And Becky legitimately feels this is her best option for getting the documents she needs to start her life.
And yeah, totes, Becky is definitely tempting fate last panel, no disagreement there. And I fully agree on Joyce being at a whisper. It’s more the visual. Like, three teens walking to a house is one thing, one of them freaking out visually like they’re worried about getting caught for mischief is more likely to draw some curious curtain-twitcher’s attentions.
Yeah, she’s a wacky person, but the reason I specify her playing up the wacky, is because when she goes into overdrive has consistently been in moments of great stress. I mean, think about the moments where she was at peak wacky?
1) Her return visit from Anderson, where she was hiding the fact that she was homeless and her dad wanted to take her away to a camp to fix her and she literally believed that Joyce was her last hope to avoid literally living under a bridge. Sequence ends with her crying on the steps.
2) Post car-crash with Toedad, joking and laughing with friends, highlighting their stuff being super wacky. Sequence has in the middle her crying talking to her dad.
3) Her interactions with Dorothy. Which are due to intense feelings of jealousy for the close almost dating relationship she has with Joyce and how much that reminds her of her old dynamic with Joyce. The dynamic that convinced her that Joyce had feelings back. No panels of crying, but we’ve gotten her looking sad at Apples to Apples cards, admitting her issues of not being over Joyce and her jealousy over Dorothy, and internally screaming when Walky tells her that they were fake married.
4) This trip. Which her facial expressions when initially meeting Carol again speak all that needs to be said on that. I’d put legitimate money down on her breaking down and crying this arc, probably in that house after splitting off a little from the others.
So yeah, she’s wacky and defiant just because that’s who she is. But she’s more and way less controlled at it and more likely to do collateral damage when she’s scared out of her wits and in intense emotional pain.
I mean, that can be bad. As you note, this can potentially affect the success of something that she feels she absolutely needs. But it’s not like she’s doing this to be a prat.
Your response to what I said is well-thought-out and valid! I don’t have much to add to it, but I wanted to let you know I read it through. Here’s hoping she doesn’t cry this arc.
I’m aware of all of this. I also think she needs to find a new one, because this one is (IMO) disrespectful to people who are actually trying to help her.
… also, if this is so hard for her to deal with that she’s going to possibly fuck up what the Brown sisters are trying to do for her, maybe she should have stayed a couple of blocks away and let them do it without her (so far) opposite of help.
A) Initially, she made one joke and then prepared to enter. It was Joyce who stopped, freaked out and then confronted her for daring to reach out to Joyce who was freaking out because Joyce is getting paranoid because this is not something she feels comfortable doing. And that’s the thing.
That bit about staying a few blocks back? That’s probably what Joyce should be doing, because Jocelyne and Becky are used to breaking rules and being more nonchalant and Joyce for all her wonderful beautiful qualities is so very much not.
Yes, she’s trying to help, but this is out of her depth.
B) You don’t control your coping strategy for shit like this. It’s the default you click over.
Like, you can change it, but that requires a herculean amount of effort and focus and even then is not always fully successful and its the reason why undoing now poisonous survival strategies from surviving abusive childhoods is often the sort of thing that involves years of intensive therapy and even then, is not always successful.
Right now, this is extra complicated by this being Becky’s sole coping strategy to keep from being a crying heaving mess and she literally can’t afford that right now. To stay alive as a homeless woman who wants to return to school, she has a lot of plates she needs to keep spinning and can’t afford to let anything drop by trying to invent a possibly less successful coping strategy for getting through this.
And I get that, because it’s a really shitty situation I know well of having to adopt something that has genuine consequences for your long term mental health (let us not forget she’s reinforcing the notion that everyone will abandon her if she lets on how broken she feels inside every time she ups the wacky like this) because right now, being functional in the short-term is literally the difference between starvation with endless collapse and holding it tightly with your teeth so the pieces don’t scatter.
C) A little unfair, donchathink? This isn’t like Becky wanted to do this and cajoled them to come. Jocelyne came up with the plan and Joyce volunteered. This is aid freely given out of love. And it’s been reciprocated to Becky’s very thorough emotional harm this entire weekend.
I mean, for fuck’s sake, she’s in the town she was less than a week ago being dragged towards at gunpoint for the purpose of torturing her so much she denied her reality until the point where she could run away and never contact her friends again so they would never again be put in danger from her awful father.
She’s here in this place that triggers her and reminds her of how much she was raised to hate herself, in this place where people feel comfortable shitting on her to her face, in this place where two sets of Browns have treated her like utter crap and have literally blamed her for her current lot in life because she dared be a lesbian.
She’s dealt with way more than she should have a right too. More than most of us could politely tolerate without flipping the tables, because she’s here supporting Joyce in her time of need, making enormous sacrifice on her behalf.
For the second time in this last week, mind, seeing as how she entered into Toedad’s car to protect Joyce and the other students being any more terrorized and triggered by her awful canker sore of a father.
And that’s what perennially annoys me about these “God, Becky so ungrateful and selfish” style posts.
They’re bullshit.
Becky is single-handedly the most self-sacrificing, selfless person in the entire cast. She suffers, she’s wacky to hide the true extent of the awful she’s going through, because she sees her very emotions as an imposition on others. She goes out of her way to praise and thank everyone who helps her out and lets them feel fully like big damn heroes by hiding her internal conflict about everything.
She has on so many occasions put herself through some awfulness to try and do right by another, to the extent of literally trying to draw the attention of a man with a gun in the hopes that that would save her girlfriend’s life.
Becky is not ungrateful, is not selfish, and this coping strategy is not “disrespectful”, it is filled with an unhealthy amount of love and respect for her friends.
Cause Becky can cry in private, in a room with her father that no one knows is happening, all to keep anyone from worrying about her. Because she doesn’t want to suck anyone into that kind of shit. She reacts to her girlfriend trying to treat her to dinner by trying to find a job so she won’t have to rely on the kindness of her friends to eat.
She is here in front of this house that represents so much pain, because she’s actively trying to reboot her life as fast as possible so she won’t “impose” on their kindness and put Joyce and her friends at risk for getting caught hiding an illegal resident by the school.
So fuck the notion that she is “disrespectful” or “ungrateful”.
Yeah, Becky acting out as a coping mechanism, and being completely terrified right now, makes a lot more sense than her just not thinking about it like I suggested. It also sounds a lot smarter than what I said so it’s probably true.
Well, I mean, she’s also an 18 year old kid with all the full awareness of the consequences of her actions that that entails, so I don’t think your point is without merit as well.
She is proud after a lifetime of being told that that was a crime that would get you sent to literal Hell. She does act first, deal with what may second even if that results in some short-term awful (see her deciding to call 911 and record Toedad even though doing that got her backhanded upside the head).
I mean, there is a reason that her loud shout is about being a lesbian rather than some other in-joke.
Mary is actually Joyce’s worst side given human form, that persists and grows stronger as Joyce gets rid of her prejudice.
Alternate theory
Mary actually left weeks ago, and the Mary fighting Carla, Ruth, and Billie is actually just a mass hallucination shared by all three of them. Their fears given human form.
Mary and Joyce are actually two halves of the same person, whose soul was divided into two when an alchemist improperly tried to transmute a human back to life. Mary was placed in a different body and given a new identity with no memories from before her “birth” as it were. Both have since grown into full and distinct souls, and if they were ever to spend more than a few hours together would explode like anti-matter coming into contact with regular matter. Unless they learned the fusion dance, in which case they would become Joary.
Future evil guy (lets call him the youth pastor, I have suspicions)
Pastor: You will never defeat me Joyce Brown, you are simply too weak! NOW! Watch as the world burns in everlasting hellfire! Watch as the sins of the world are burned away!
Mary: Not yet!
Pastor: What do you mean not yet..this is what we’ve worked for!
Mary: Because, in a world where everyone follows our ideals, what room is there for me!? And as much as I hate to admit it….I need them, I need Carla, I need Ruth! And so I say bringer of darkness…SOUL BIND!!!
Danny: Whats happening!?
Leslie: Joyce and Mary were a being who’s should was separated years ago, and now Mary’s attempting to reconnect them!
Amber: but she’ll die!
Ruth: (In the distance) heh, so this is your final atonement Mary? See ya around kid. (single tear)
Joyce: Mary, NO!
Mary’s body melts away as her should enters into Joyce.
Joyce: DAMNIT MARY!!!
Joyce runs and socks the Pastor in the Jaw, sending him flying.
Pastor: Fools! You can’t stop me! No one can stop me from bringing about the end of the world for my true master! Muahahahaha!
Mary (in her head): Every…everything I believed…was a lie. A twisted falsehood. I was…wrong. About everything. Wait. No. Not everything.
Joyce: What else can we do? There has to be a way to stop him!!
Mary: There is. We have to put our trust in the only part of my worldview that is still intact. We must use the power…of Anime!!!
Joyce&Mary: FU! SION! HA! WE ARE JOARY!!! WE ARE GOING TO FUCK YOU UP!
Billie: This has to be the single most nerdy thing I’ve ever seen.
Walky: No it isn’t.
Billie: (sigh) No it isn’t.
Of course you need the epic battle between Joyce and Mary before hand.
Danny, Sal, Carla, Amber, Billie, Walky, Joyce, Ruth, Ethan and Becky run down a hallway. Only to be blocked by Mary.
Joyce: Mary!
Mary: Hello, Joyce. I’ve learned some stuff about us today!
Joyce: So have I…so this is how its going to end, huh.
Mary: There can only be one.
Joyce: So be it.
Danny: Don’t worry, Joyce its ten against one!
Joyce: No…you guys rescue Dina, I can deal with Mary.
Joyce turns to Mary.
Joyce: Face me, sister.
Mary: Don’t call us sisters…(Rushes at Joyce) WHEN WERE AS DIFFERENT AS NIGHT AND DAY!
We focus on everyone else for awhile before turning to Joyce and Mary with their battle underway.
Joyce: So, this your destiny Mary? To be a monster!? (kicks her in the stomach)
Mary: Its what I was born to do! (blocks Joyce’s kick)
Joyce: That’s what I thought once too…
Mary: NO! you could never understand! (punches Joyce)
Mary: So you are stronger, then me…but not for long! These bracelets act as power limiters, but I don’t know how long I can keep my sanity without them!
Joyce: her power is incredible now, I can’t hold back anymore!
Mary: HAHAHAAHAHAHA!
After an oddly long battle
Joyce: MARY. GOD. DAMN. YOU! (Slams her and Mary through a series of walls, ending up with everyone else)
Mary: You don’t understand!! You were the base person! You had joy, and love, and hope! All I ever had was anger and hate! That was all you left me!! Why?!? Did you?!? Get to be?!? The better half?!?
Joyce: I grew, you didn’t!
Mary: I never had the chance to become complete!! But once you’re gone I finally will!
…
Holy shit but I’ve watched way too much angsty anime if I’m capable of typing this sort of story idea.
I was going to say that for it to be a gateway whatever there has to be a logical connection…
… but now that I think about it, I cannot for the life of me recall a single thing described as a gateway [crime, drug, whatever] that actually HAD that logical connection.
When I was in college & living with my grandparents, they had seven rules. One of them had to be there if I had friends over (punk-lite look), 11pm curfew (understandable), no smoking (same), no drinking (wasn’t old enough), not allowed to get piercing or tattoos (odd), and lastly, wasn’t allowed to have long hair (yeah). I think the belief was that if I had long hair it would have lead to me breaking all the other rules. It was a running joke with my friends and I had.
I am still at a loss of how any of this is even close to illegal? Becky should not only lawfully own everything but assuming everything is paid have at least a month to move everything.
Depending on the situation, but in this case probably not. Becky is only here for the weekend, and has to stick with Joyce, since she’s her way back to the campus. Joyce has to spend the majority of this time with her family, giving Becky not a whole to of time to go through the process of getting into the house legally if she doesn’t have a key, which the whole break-in plot line implies that she doesn’t. Moreover, this town isnt very large. There’s a good chance people in the area know who Becky is and what she “did” to her father. If those people catch her trying to get back into this house that technically isn’t hers to enter, you can bet they’ll avoid acknowledging some of her rights to retrieve her stuff in order to make her life worse. Bonus points if these people are cops.
Because it’s not her house, it’s her dad’s. And the laws for rights of access get fuzzier when it comes to homeless teens and often punitive against the teens. In this case, it might not even come to legality one way or another, but rather how much some good ol’ Christian boys want to give the lesbian a good scare for getting her daddy, the church man, locked up.
Abuse of government power notwithstanding, this is completely legal. Becky’s Dad owns the property, and Becky as his child has the right to possess the house until Becky’s Dad revokes permission. Becky’s Dad has not revoked this permission, and in fact was actively trying to bring Becky back home just before he was taken into custody.
Yeah, but the abuse of government power is WAY more likely than people think. Cops are not friends to queer folk and especially not in small towns with deeply religious values. Where the cops likely went to the same megachurch as Toedad and the Browns.
Perhaps Becky doesn’t fully realize the risk here, because her previous interactions with cops were positive because that was in a more liberal area and the cops were appalled at Toedad’s actions. But here, she can at least be put through some serious harassment if the cops decide to hassle her.
Oh, I’m not arguing that Joyce, Jocelyne and Becky couldn’t get in trouble. They most certainly could. A lesbian, a transgender person and an angry girl in what looks like a very socially conservative town, acting in a manner that reasonable people would construe as breaking and entering? They could totally get in trouble.
I’m just saying their actions are totally legal. None of them, by right, should be subjected to fines or any loss of liberty beyond the time it takes to clarify that Becky has the right to access her Dad’s property.
I suppose I mostly come from a perspective of having some rather painful lessons on how what is one’s legal rights and what will actually happen is often a gulf apart.
Legally this would be awkward and could end with some check-ins on legality for edge cases, but wouldn’t be too bad. In reality? There’s a chance we could find out or at least there’s enough possible to make the comment section really nervous.
‘Sometimes what one’s legal rights are Vs. what actually happens, are a gulf apart’
Just putting some emphasis on that bit you said, ‘cuz it’s super important.
Sorry to take some liberties with the paraphrasing there.
(I don’t know what exactly happened to you if anything regarding evac from parental house, and I am not trans, but I am a lesbian and police were summoned when I was attempting to get my stuff from my parents’ place, and it wasn’t so good for me. So… solidarity gesture??)
As an INTP type who is studying law and has suffered relatively little discrimination after growing mature enough to brush aside standard bullying, I very much appreciate your perspective on these issues, Cerberus.
You put thought into your posts and root your arguments in facts or experiences whenever possible. Dina would probably like you.
I always appreciate when you take us into a scene from an angle, AND
when the backgrounds are detailed , AND
when you shift visual viewpoints as the scene progresses.
and I totally know you spent hours on the backgrounds, Then covered them Up just because;
and then cursed yourself extra hard, between baby vomit , why you would make so much extra work for yourself.
( why dont you ever learn? and whos even going to notice ? )
But it pulls us into a scene , and its nicely done.
You shouldnt listen to my praise. You do it for you.
Shame you stopped airbrushing though. The shadows you could add on that red tree, and that roof.
i wonder if you ever walk by your old lonely airbrush, and think wistfully… “Man, I should a DOA retrosyle , with airbrushed shadows ” ?
Richard:Hey Bill you owe me twenty bucks. And so does everyone else in the pot!!
Bill: Damnit, I coulda sworn it would have been around Thanksgiving instead.
Rob: I hate it when Rich is right, he’s always such a prick about it.
Let’s see, Becky’s being super wacky and super out and Joyce is freaking out about it. Cue a bunch of people criticizing Becky and calling her behavior awful. Like clockwork.
Look forward to the second round which will be the perennial Becky haters using this as a springboard to go on a major classist or homophobic rant about how Becky is awful and ungrateful and wasted $20s and so forth.
I believe I have established in previous comment threads (and again, above) that my objections, at least, have – to the best of my knowledge and belief – nothing to do with those things, and are for other, personal reasons.
Which is totes fair and this isn’t at all directed as a passive-aggressive dig at you or anything, my comment is mostly about just how predictable these overall patterns are.
Hell, those in the Patreon feed can confirm I predicted this outcome yesterday.
Panel 1, part 1: Surrrrree Joyce, we believe you. *wink*
Panel 1, part 2: “Home bittersweet home”. Since Becky’s going to keep up her facade by wacking it up so hard she won’t slip into tears for a bit, I think it’s critical to focus on this little bit.
This homecoming must represent so much to her. It’s the home she’ll never have again. More than that, in suburbia, the home is the outward symbol of the ideal family, the happy illusion. And here, it’s the reminder that that illusion is broken and will never come again. She will never again enter this home. She’ll never again say hi to her dad without it being choked with all the betrayal his attack meant. She’s already had to say goodbye to her mom (and it might not even have been that long ago, relatively speaking).
It is also the cage of her emotional abuse, being under the fanatical control of a man who thought guarding and enforcing her “spiritual purity” was the very thing defining his masculinity. A place of denial. A place where she was carefully taught to hate the very thing she was. A place she may have been dragged back to and abused at. A place less than a week ago she couldn’t have wanted to see less.
This trip would be brutal for anyone, but for someone of her specific background this is broken glass shards rubbing into skin.
And here she copes by cracking some jokes. Keep it light and maybe no one will notice her heart breaking. The emotion in her voice. Keep it light, keep it silly, keep it quick, and maybe she won’t collapse into a mess. Keep it light, or the fears of abandonment from not only her family could come true. Not in actual fact, but definitely in her fear.
And sadly, too many will stop at her mask and assume this isn’t ripping her apart. It’s the tragedy of Becky in no uncertain terms. But it’s also what’s keeping her going right now. And getting her through this.
Panel 1, part 3: I love home-ophobic! And it’s a nice dig at what Toedad, his idea of family, and her home represents. A place, a family, a community so hateful of the very idea of queer folk, that her dad felt morally right literally hunting her across the state in order to disappear her to an abuse camp.
Where shitheads like Carol cheer that action and hope it was successful. Where fuckwaffles like John feel that would have been the “proper” end for her and refuse to even acknowledge her humanity.
And I get that because I’ve been there. The moment where family ceases to be a family and just be a grave stone marker to the homophobia or transphobia that it came to represent.
Panel 2: Joyce is adorable when she gets super panicky about things because she really really sucks at doing the low-key thing.
Like, it’s adorable, but she’s been a good two-shoes “good girl” all her life, never having to hide her secret self, because up until college, she never really had the life experiences and interactions necessary to question the teachings she was raised with.
I mean, Becky and Jocelyne are used to sneaking and hiding things. Of having their insides be at war with what is taught. But Joyce? She’s cis and straight and while she is full of such boundless amazing love and empathy, that’s had to come by hearing the stories of others and experiencing things rather than having the disconnect from her religion come from what she fundamentally IS.
And so, when wacky hijinks are afoot or rules need to be broken, Joyce freaks out about keeping things quiet and secret to the point where she’s unintentionally sabotaging the effort. Like here or in Panel 3 where she’s panicking so much she’s ignoring what they really need to do and what Jocelyne and Becky were planning to do which is just getting to work getting this done.
But even though it’s counter to success, it’s still so quintessentially Joyce. Of course she freaks out at the idea of breaking rules or laws. Of course, she assumes that her drawing dicks would lead to a life of crime and that breaking one maybe law equals a life of crime. That’s what she was taught. That it was one puff of marijuana or one naughty touch and then you’d be knocking over liquor stores and crying out “hail Satan”.
Which is why she makes a nice contrast with Becky, because Becky is wacky as a reflex, but she’s also made her peace much more thoroughly with the notion that this authoritarian and inflexible morality they were raised with is complete bullshit. To her and to Jocelyne, sometimes a rule or a law needs to be broken, because that’s the only way to survive.
And it’s touches like that that really hammer home the most major separation between them right now. Joyce has a home, albeit one that is rocky and might be taken from her if her mom gets her way. But Becky is homeless and even with the lovely and much appreciated support of friends, has had to make the moral compromises necessary to survive as a homeless person in America.
Panel 3: And here we see one of Joyce’s less endearing habits.
Like, I know these types of moments rile up the comment section something fierce, because we all love Joyce (because Joyce is awesome sauce and let none of us forget it), but she has a habit of trying to regain her sense of control when things are leading her down the road of a panic attack by trying to enforce codes of behavior for others.
And with Becky this usually manifests itself with “Joyce gets freaked out” and then “Joyce orders Becky to be low-key in some way” even though she’s never that much out of line before the Joyce yanks her aside and tells her to keep cool.
And it’s understandable. This is Joyce trying to get a handle on her own fears. She’s mostly telling herself these things but Becky makes a good force to internalize.
It’s like her reaction to Becky bumping into the RA outside, freaking out on her about the need to hide Becky better because Joyce knew she herself was doing a poor job of remaining cool and calm and deflecting authority. In fact, in most every situation where she’s done this, Becky has not really needed it nor has Becky been the main risk to her situation.
I mean, let’s be frank, Becky is pretty cool under pressure and has a lifetime of pulling shit on an authority figure more paranoid than literally any other character in this comic. She’s a master at hiding her true feelings and at deflecting direct questions and especially at play-acting a sort of normal.
It’s Joyce who has no idea what’s going on here and is thus being more of the sort of thing that would have neighbors investigating and possibly calling the police over.
But of course she would. Joyce is a good girl, stretching herself way outside her comfort zone after a lifetime of believing that disobeying rules was a straight ticket to Hell. But it’s probably also why Becky tends to ignore these moments when they don’t hit personally, because Becky understands this about Joyce and knows she needs to freak out to resettle after being yanked from her original comfort zone.
Joyce kinda IS confirmed right in her core believes, isn’t she?
– Everything is solved by falling in love. (corroboration: Becky and Dina).
– Crimes escalate (corroboration: Dingdongs -> punchings -> Grand Larcency)
– Walky is a poophead (corroboration: Walky)
Panel 4: And Joyce’s paranoia about this goes off the charts because this is WAAAAAAY outside her comfort zone. I mean, actually breaking not just a parent rule or a church order, but an actual legal law (technically)?
Hell, she can already feel the eyes of God and her parents staring down disapprovingly at her and she is freaking the fuck out of something that’s unlikely to really occur unless Becky’s neighbors include some Mary style curtain-twitchers (which to be fair is a fair assessment, but then they were already fucked when they were young people walking and talking, so Joyce’s panic is still not likely to do much even if followed by Becky).
Also, oh Joyce that is a dangerous thing to insist to Becky cause…
Panel 5: Oh Becky, proud and fearless. Never change.
Also, I love the callback to her coming out to Joyce’s friends and the appellation. Because that is so Becky. She’s a lesbian, but more importantly to her, she’s got a girlfriend. She’s found someone who likes her back in the same way, who bit her fuckhead of a father for her, who literally fought for her and who’s been the only one besides Joyce to see her in her crying mess state.
And it’s such a defiant fuck you to all this neighborhood and house represent.
If this is a home of repression and learning to hate herself, Becky will loudly declare that which makes it impossible for her to live her. Becky will take pride in it. Becky will not fear the backlash that could provoke.
This house, this community, this flavor of her religion don’t control her anymore in the way that it still has its tendrils wrapped around Joyce’s throat.
And I look forward to the day that Joyce can take as much pride in her sexuality and her identity as Becky here.
OJ Simpson led a group of armed men into breaking into a Las Vegas Hotel room to steal sports memorabilia that he claimed had been stolen from him. Bit of a difference.
I was going to say that I wished that Becky could figure out that there is a time and a place for everything because there really are times when it is smarter to be silent.
Joyce, it’s a house. If you’re all nervous and look like you’re sneaking in, then people will think you’re sneaking in and call the cops. Becky… I’d facepalm, but you’ve established that if there’s an option where you can call attention to yourself and the fact that you’re a lesbian, then context be damned, you’re gonna shout it out loud. Really, the big way we can tell you’re a dumbing of age character and not a shortpacked one is that you don’t have an “I’m a lesbian” marching band.
I was going to make a joke here, but now I’m unsure if it would have been taken the right way. Instead, I’ll just state it would be entertaining to see one going down the street right now.
I’m having trouble seeing Becky as a teen anymore, she just looks so grown-up confident. I can see her with the full bevy of adult things- job in which she’s steadily climbing uthe promotions ladder, or maybe her own business, maybe a family or a favoured niece or just really any possible live set some ten years after graduation. Look at her. She is too good for the struggles and drama of college-agedness
If you point a gun at someone, you’ll have to be prepared to fire it. I mused on that as we came closer to the house.
It was the bad part of town (all parts of the town was bad, but even filth comes in layers, as any half decent coprolitologist can tell you). Not a soul to be seen, and at the moment none of the many inhabitants of this charmy neighbourhood that seemed to lack one. But you just knew that they were watching us behind the curtains.
The client tried to keep it light but couldn’t quite hide the apprehension as we drew closer. I didn’t blame her. There was fresh blood on the ground, and after the kill is made there will always be scavengers. Last time she was here was together with the man with the gun.
The gun, yes. I could se my muscles getting jittery. I had had my misgivings about her in the past, but at her core she was pure iron. There are those among us that are govern by their flight and fight instinct – and this one was not fleeing. There was a story there, about a gun… Bringing her here was less pointing a gun and more throwing a grenade, but so be it. There are times for subtility but I was not in the mood for subtle.
I was in the mood to kick some ass.
My name is Jocelyne and I am a liar. Some call it writer, but I knew who I am. Very few people do.
Joyce is actually correct. You’d be very surprised at how far (and how clearly) voices travel at night when there is little to no other ambient sounds around. At, say, 9pm or later at night, if my neighbours are having a conversation in front of their house, I can hear every single word from my room (which is at the front of the house opposite) if I have the window open.
She’s swinging between a pendulum for me. I get that she acts up when she freaks out, but it’s still something she needs to learn to harness rather than explode.
Like Jocelyne said to Joyce, she shouldn’t compromise her values, but she needs to be more tactical at times.
For me personally she’s in the ‘middle’ category – she does okay to drive the plot, but attention-hoggers like Becky tend to exhaust me, so after a few strips with her I’m ready to move on.
For real though, I do get why people dislike Becky, and something I’ve come to realize is that Becky has surface similarities to a lot of other characters I just rabidly dislike in other webcomics. Becky does kind of come off as the Wacky Lesbian character archetype, in that she has a really loud, bombastic presence, a nontraditional haircut, pretty much everyone likes her as soon as they meet her, and she immediately landed with a cute dinosaur girlfriend.
But what makes her work for me is that context. We’ve seen that a lot of her personality is a defense mechanism. She deals with stress by acting like it doesn’t exist and repeatedly throwing sass and flippancy at it because admitting that she’s actually in pain is something she can’t do. Her repeatedly yelling of how super gay she is boils down to the fact that her identity is the only thing she has left, so she needs to take power in it. And it’s not like Becky just has everything roll off her back; we’ve seen her quietly break down as long as she could do it out of Joyce’s sight, like where she just bluntly admitted to Dina that she was sick of having her life uprooted because of her butthole dad.
Like, I’m not trying to Beckysplain away dislike of her, or trying to imply that UGH YOU JUST DONT GET IT. I kind of have the same thing with Ruth, where even though there’s lots of context that shapes her character and lots of people have written at length extolling about how she’s an interesting and complex character, I still mostly just want to hit her in the face with a shovel.
Also unlike a lot of other terrible Magic Sex Pixie Queer characters, it’s not like everyone just uproariously laughs at Becky’s occasional dickbag behaviour; Billie sticks up for her because of her situation but has mostly avoided her since Becky told her bisexuality didn’t exist, Danny called her obnoxious, Walky said he wanted to punch her in the face for being a jerk to Dorothy, her “firing” Ethan was played as a massive overstepping of boundaries on her part where she became hugely apologetic when she realized that they actually did break up and assumed it was her fault, and even Jocelyne said that her Nazi joke was stupid. She reminds a lot of Shortpacked!Robin in that regard, in that she tried to go Manic Pixie Dream Girl for Ethan and Amber and was constantly rewarded with things she didn’t deserve, but that was part of the joke and everyone mostly had a grudging tolerance for her that was eventually dragged into friendship. In another series Becky would be constantly rewarded for her sheer existence, but here she’s an actual character.
I also think it’s interesting the surface connections to Manic Pixie Dream Lesbian style characters and how that connection can be frustrating for people. And especially that idea of her “constantly earning things she doesn’t deserve”, because it reminds me of how Becky is such a thorough deconstruction of that notion.
Becky doesn’t “constantly earn things” like those other characters. She mostly just takes it on the chin with occasionally a big win to help her out of taking it on the chin that she takes with tons of gratitude.
And it fits how the “Manic Pixie Dream Lesbian” would work in life, how she works in life. Mentally ill, homeless, with nothing left but her pride and what few connections she could retain. And I like the contrast with Robin who was a Manic Pixie Dream Bisexual, because Robin always failed upwards and got things she didn’t deserve, and Becky fails downwards and gets things she didn’t deserve, but not in the same way.
Cause Becky didn’t deserve being thrown out of her school and home for kissing a girl. Didn’t deserve to be homeless for being gay and refusing to change. Didn’t deserve to be hunted at gunpoint across the state because she refused to “respect” her dad’s authority over her life and soul. Didn’t deserve to feel like an imposition to everyone she loves simply because she directly relies on their compassion to survive. Doesn’t deserve to have to break into her dad’s old house and all the awful memories it contains, because she’s working so hard to make a new life for herself and this is the piece that could make it possible.
And when she gets a win, it’s often well-earned. Like, Dina kissed her out of the blue and said, hmm, maybe, but Becky is also a good girlfriend and has shown an immense amount of not just support and acceptance, but downright celebration of her girlfriend and her girlfriend’s quirks. It’s not really a Rinnie from Blaster Nation situation or pre-out SP! Robin with Leslie situation. It’s a really adorable healthy and mutual relationship.
But she hates all that she’s lost and the feeling that she’s a mess. So she pretends to be the Manic Pixie Dream Lesbian instead. Wacky, incorrigible, silly, immature. And maybe even getting some wins that aren’t just not dying or not ending up on the street.
Yeah, this. DoA doesn’t reward Becky for existing, but it doesn’t run in the opposite direction where she needs to be contrite to deserve a modicum of happiness. She has a lot of shit on her plate and needs help, but her receiving that help is never played off as something she needs to earn for being too poor and too gay. She’s surrounded by people who love and support her because it’s just something they’re doing for somebody they care for.
I feel that people can come at Becky from the perspective of “I hate characters like this and Becky fits that mold” sometimes, like how a lot of my dislike for Ruth stems from me seeing way too many series where abusive characters are revealed to have sad backstories and then their victims instantly forgive them, so Ruth kind of automatically has a bunch of hurdles to jump over for me so I can get over that initial uneasiness with her character, or how I had a lot of apprehension over Danny and Amber’s break up and where Danny/Ethan would go because I’ve seen too many “queer dude leaves evil girlfriend and finds true happiness in arms of the first man he sees” stuff only for Willis to knock it out of the park with that amazing bit they just had together.
See, I’d compare her more to Walkyverse Walky, someone who is desperately wacky and loud in order to always be the center of attention. I hated him, too. Hell, I work with a guy like that, every word out of his mouth is like nails on a chalkboard at this point. The fact that Willis loves her and really pushed her early on doesn’t help, either(that damn poll almost got adblocked).
WV!Walky wasn’t trying to be the center of attention. He acted like a wacky goofball because he mostly was, he was scared of responsibility, and also he was a powder keg of frightening unstoppable rage.
As for whether Becky was pushed, well, yeah kinda? She kind of had to be, since she was an almost entirely new character dropped into a years-long series as a current and important main character, unlike, say, Dina or Carla who’ve just kind of hung around in the background before starting to gradually rise to prominence, whereas Becky kind of needed to immediately be in the spotlight. That ain’t a bad thing for me since I totes luv Becky, but I can see why people who don’t like her as much (and are also wrong and should be punished for their hubris) wouldn’t feel the same.
I just portray her how I would if I was writing her. In the same way I like Sakura Haruno in theory but think Kishimoto’s writing is the reason she ended up so awful. I mean every character in his series suffers from awful writing but her especially.
(None of the Sakura smut does much for me because it’s rarely the kind of lewd that I like. If I’m getting smut of a girl with canonical super strength, I need some hard femdom going on.) But that’s neither here nor there.
There is options to get a new social security card. I remember calling whoever and being instructed to send a hand written letter asking some office to go do a record search for my name and enclose the letter with $100 something cash.
There are options, they take a lot of time when you don’t have a car or any records or proof of who you are and you have an antagonistic parent. And they all take money she doesn’t have right now*. Often a lot of money when you add it all up.
There was a social worker who worked with homeless queer youth a bit ago who mentioned that this process for them can take upwards of a year and that’s with an organization that knows what it’s doing being with them every step of the way and helping out. Becky isn’t in a position where she can wait that long to restart her life.
*Changing my name and pronoun marker and getting that swapped over with new cards and all that has cost over a thousand dollars and has taken several years of my life to accomplish. While not as extensive, I imagine getting all your documents when you have no real means of proving who you are is at very least half as much hassle as that.
OK, first of all, where is Becky getting those one hundred dollars from? She does not have one hundred dollars on hand, and she’s not going to ask anyone for it either (and most of those she knows won’t have it on hand either, I reckon. I mean, Billie does, but they’re not exactly “ask for a hundred dollars” kind of close), because she’s feeling guilty enough about living on others already, and she wants to get a job to stop just that. So, she needs a job to get that money, but to get a job she needs an SSC, and to get that SSC, she needs money.
Yeah, nice little catch-22 to screw over people simply for being poor. Only in America! (OK, not really only in America, but as a Norwegian living in USA, your whole system of identification is, to say the least, bloody baffling.)
Secondly, and this is also important: Becky has little to no idea about her options. She was home-schooled all the way up to a Christian college, and her father kept all her important stuff, including birth certificates, SSCs, and so on. He never taught her to memorise her number, or anything else that somehow could inadvertently teach her to be independent. Heck, she did not even know there was a card. She was to become an obedient little housewife, getting educated only so she could be homeschooling the kids, end of story. She does not understand how to use internet, her idea of a forbidden movie is “Frozen”…. Yeah, “isolated” doesn’t even begin to describe it. There are prisoners with a better grasp of the outside world* than Becky.
*Which incidentally, I think is a good idea, if they are to have a chance at getting back into society and not fall back into more crime when they get out of jail.
I’d say she didn’t so much leave the closet as much as she nuked it from orbit, but by this point she’s just throwing grenades into a giant smoking crater. But seriously it’s her house, it isn’t so much breaking and entering as it’s a case of a lost key.
Okay, so here’s the mentality I grew up with in a conservative christian small town: If your parents payed for it, even if they “gave” it to you, it’s still theirs. If you payed for it but it’s at your parents’ house and they use it, it’s theirs. If it’s in your parents’ house (even temporarily) and you’re not, it’s theirs. If the community feels you shouldn’t have it, it’s not yours.
If the neighbors support Toedad’s stance and blames Becky for his incarceration, they’re going to call the police on her for taking what they see as Toedad’s possessions, which he has the “right” to deny her, as he bought all of it. And if the local police agree with the neighbors, she can still get locked up in the county jail for the night. Because even though it’s her legal residence, it’s /Toedad’s/ house, and you can bet he doesn’t want her there. And in small town anywhere, the local police is as high up as you can go, so the exact legality of anything only matters as far as the local police think it should matter.
Okay, but. Dude is in *prison*. I’m pretty sure that legally speaking, it’s Becky’s right to do what she wants with her things, as an adult over the age of 18.
True, but keep in mind ObiKemnebi’s comments above, and remember that there are some (not all) police (and judges, and other lrgal authorities) who unfortunately don’t have the law as their first priority.
I really, really want to see an arc when Joyce explains the ‘Ding-Dong Bandit’ thing to Becky. Becky’s reaction to the fact that pure, clean and upstanding Joyce could pull a stunt like that will likely be comedy gold!
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Joyce’s last line could totally be a book title. It would complement the previous one.
Joyce’s FAAACE could totally be a movie by itself.
I feel like “hey everyone, I’m a lesbian and I have a girlfriend now” would be more likely.
I’m surprisingly okay with the idea of a series of book titles just consistently adding to the “Hey everyone, I’m a lesbian” book.
Like next could be that. And then after “hey everyone, I’m a lesbian and I have a girlfriend and I have a job now” followed by “hey everyone, I’m a lesbian and I have a girlfriend and I have a job and I’m enrolled in college now” and then eventually the last book “hey everyone, Dina and Becky Saruyama here live at the dig site, I’m a lesbian, *mic drop*”
Yes.
All the yes.
I thought Dina’s last name was Sarazu?
It was in It’s Walky! but I think it’s different in DoA.
and while they’re busy clutching at pearls… BREAK IN
Ooh, actually a distraction tactic! Clever Becky!
They will never see it coming!!!
dammit becky
just
dammit all
I’d curse her but it’s been a really angsty few weeks and Becky is bringing some much needed levity.
Yup. Becky you are many things. But criminal mastermind is not one of them.
I’m totally in lesbians with her right now, if only she wasn’t actually lesbian
reasons why I cannot date Becky
1. She is a lesbian…and I am a dude
2. She is a fictional character
And even if I managed to invent some sort of 4th wall gun and bring Becky to the real world, she would still be a Lesbian. You could say that if I was able to invent a gun that made characters real, I could probably invent some sort of a straight ray. However ignoring the horrific moral implications of that, it would make Becky not Becky and as such is not a viable option.
The solution is simple. If you can make a straight ray, you can probably also make a gender-changing ray. Just make yourself female, and then you can be eligible to date Becky.
Except that she’s dating Dina (and friends with Joyce), and probably wouldn’t thank you for yanking her out of her universe. But hey, a person can dream…
You could invent a ray that turns you into Dina?
This is turning to into a really odd El Goonish Shive fan fiction.
Love that comic, it’s weird but oddly addictive
Agree, I started reading it last month and really got into it.
Been reading it for years. It’s still odd how well adjusted those kids are considering how crazy their lives are. Even Dan snuck a comment in about it.
3. I ship her way to hard with Dina
I swear Willis, I will draw ding dongs all over your whiteboards and then whistle the overture in your face.
I think Wheel meant to have an ‘if you break Becky and Dina up’ somewhere in there.
And, I agree.
I mean, yeah, “you have been through hell and I am doing my best to support you, but I have also been threatened at gunpoint, faced with losing my family, I ditched my values, completely remade them, and even now I’m doing my best to do things that only help you and go against my judgment, STILL, and I really just want you to do this one thing to help make sure we’re not caught.”
“I’M NOT GONNA DO THE THING CAUSE I’M A WACKY DOODLE!”
Becky is great but also god damn it becky.
Yes, this. 🙁
Joyce grew up and modified her values not as some disingenuous “sacrifice” to Becky, but because it was the right thing to do. Because she genuinely can’t continue to believe that gay people are literally sinners who deserve eternal torture and pain and suffering when it is someone so close to her who has that “affliction”. She stands by her against her family, because it really does piss her off that the rest of her culture can’t see that Becky is a person. Because she can’t understand why they would hand-wave someone literally pointing a gun at her to whine about gay people and how it’s the worst thing ever to support them.
She didn’t “ditch her values” because Becky demanded it and then whine and bongo and give nothing or as some gesture. But because she realized that the values she was given were wrong and she was no longer able to agree with them. And it’s a crucial part of growing up to ditch her values because the values she started with were disgusting.
Let us not forget that the values Joyce has espoused at times have included Jews are halfway Christians who can be pushed all the way over with effort, gay people can be cured of their sin through chaste Christian love and hard work, a person who has sex is literally being stripped of value and is like a flower being mangled, and aggressive gender enforcement is important to keep people from becoming gay or queer.
These values needed to die. Would have had to have died. And if it wasn’t for Becky’s coming out, it would have been something like Dorothy’s confrontation that would have triggered it.
And it is disingenuous to a disgusting degree to pretend that this “sacrifice” is at all equal between Becky and Joyce and that Becky has not bled to an exorbitant degree for Joyce with far more literal sacrifices.
And doubly so to pretend this is some singular request on Joyce’s part cashing in the favors of no longer believing she’s a sin-bound monster rather than a symptom of her freaking the fuck out because holy shit, she’s breaking a real law for reals, literally nothing in her life has prepared her for a rebellion this intense and big and so she’s flailing.
Also, Becky shows a lot of effort trying to calm her down before going full Becky at the end, so it’s not like Joyce made a singular calm request to not get her arrested and Becky said fuck you to that.
Becky is by no means perfect and is definitely not the type to overthink her choices, but this weird alien reading of the comic so far is just foreign as fuck to me.
Why are you completely invalidating Joyce’s growth as a person? Roz flair definitely accurate, as she did the SAME exact thing in the gender studies class.
You are not actually tolerant of LGBT individuals. This seems like an insult, but it’s just a fact. Tolerance means you fundamentally disagree with the things these individuals do, but you do not attack or denigrate them in any way and you respect their ability to believe what they believe. Do you dislike LGBT people in any way? Then why is your acceptance of LGBT people noteworthy or tolerant in any way?
Joyce was raised to despise these people. If she changes her beliefs to accept all people, regardless of whether she agrees with their attitudes and beliefs or not, that’s actually huge. She should be praised for accepting Ethan and Becky despite her upbringing and conscience telling her not to. She should be praised for standing up to her parents and her upbringing when she rescues Becky (Damn it!) and when she defends her choice of Dorothy as a friend by being tolerant towards her atheism.
You have a journey of your own personal growth to go on before you can really understand why Joyce’s personal journey is important and praiseworthy and not just a passe little story about The Girl Who Thought The Wrong Thing But Then Learned It Was Wrong And Started Thinking The Right Thing Instead And It Was Wholly Unremarkable And Fully Expected And Took Very Little Effort.
I see this attitude a lot from my fundamentalist Christian acquaintances – apparently the Left doesn’t understand the right values to believe in! – but at least they are respectful of people’s backgrounds and consider it to be fundamentally important when people change their beliefs into what they perceive as the right thing. And I think that everyone should have that attitude; a change in belief is difficult and momentous, and for it to be totally invalidated like “yeah but it would have been so much better if you’d been doing it all along!” is really insensitive.
I don’t think that’s what they were saying. They were more upset at the use of the term “sacrifice” and the implication that Becky should have to do something to repay Joyce for her acceptance or that she hasn’t also gone through hell for Joyce.
Joyce has done some great things for her friends and has shown a lot of growth, but that’s part of being a decent human and a good friend. While her acts of bravery and willingness to change should be commended, she shouldn’t be inordinately praised just because she came from a bigoted home. It was never suggested that her change was insignificant, but that it shouldn’t be viewed as a “sacrifice.”
And look, the word “tolerant” is not exactly a pleasant word to hear from someone. Being told you’re “tolerated” is not a good feeling.
Also, what’s with the assertion that the poster has not gone on a journey of personal growth?
This.
This is hard for Joyce. I’m so proud of Joyce for her growth and she reminds me a lot of friends who were raised in that same toxic stew who have been lifelong friends, seeing how they’re toxic stew they were served failed to include me and other important people in their life and grew.
What Joyce is doing fundamentally is praise-worthy, because of the start she had to the whole issue.
But that doesn’t mean Becky owes jack all for her for said struggle, because in reality, Becky is just the catalyst of the struggle. The reminder of the cost the type of beliefs Joyce grew up with and the impetus to take the hard effort to change.
This is about Joyce growing for herself, not some disingenuous “gift” to Becky that she expects slavish obedience for. And that idea that queerfolk get from time to time that we owe our oppressors gifts if they aren’t as oppressive as other oppressors is actually a real and common one.
See all the bigots who wanted to be praised by gay folks because sure, they weren’t allowing people to get married, but they “evolved” enough to “let” them have civil unions. Or all the anti-trans people now wanting us to refrain calling them bigots, because sure, they may be denying us housing and intentionally misgendering us and bullying us, but hey, they didn’t stab us like they want, so we owe them courtesy.
And agree with Kitty so much that “tolerant” is a red flag. It tells the marginalized group member not that they have an ally, but they have someone who’ll demand favors and praise and will eel away from any active support. That the person in question will continuously threaten to “jump ship” and join the abusers if the marginalized group member is not deferential and reverent enough towards them. And thus it’s usually a lie.
“Tolerant” usually just means they’re a bigot, they want to work against you and rant about how awful you are and maybe even kill you, but they recognize that it is not socially approved to be a bigot and so they’re begrudgingly not killing you, but they’re really looking for any excuse, any reason at all to withdraw their non-existant “support” and blame it on how the marginalized group member is the “real bully”.
So yeah, got my issues with notion of “tolerance”
And sorry to go off on you about that, but I really think it’s disgusting to frame that not hating someone because of their identity is somehow a favor that the person not hated owes something in return for.
Cause, no, my humanity as a member of a lot of marginalized identities should not be in constant service to those people in society who don’t kill me today. In fact, I should expect full and equal treatment as my right as a human being. And if people need to adjust how they’ve been taught to hate those like me to do so, then yes, they should. Cause that’s what makes them non-bigots.
When I was reading the list of character changes s/he gave above, I assumed they were all about Becky and got confused at the end, because Becky has also done all those things, many of them without the support of friends or the assurance of available food and shelter. It was kind of comical to read the thing framed through Joyce’s experience when Becky is RIGHT THERE, GOING THROUGH all the things Joyce is having trouble dealing with *watching*.
I do sympathise with the frustration, though. As both a person who has self-sabotaging habits because of a culturally marginalised status and a person who has friends with self-sabotaging habits, I do sometimes want to shake Becky by the neck and shout “IT’S GOING FINE, WOULD YOU PLEASE STOP BEING AN OBNOXIOUS ASS.” Partly because I can’t stand obnoxiousness of that type (Walky also grates on me) and partly because of an uncomfortable identification with her.
I always enjoy reading your to-the-point and carefully considered words in situations like this. I understand that can be read as sarcasm so I will say that I mean this genuinely and from the bottom of my heart. You so often perfect articulate the feeling or thoughts that I had and with a greater restraint and poise than I would have managed.
Thank you for being in the comments section.
“Buncha Gays can’t tell I’m going out of my way to be nice to them. The nerve of some people.”
People are people.
Heh, I have had similar situations to this with my best friend, where she is like ‘oh god please don’t say the thing’ and then I am like ‘what, THIS THING THAT I’M SAYING LOUDLY NOW? THIS THING?’ and then she is ‘yes that thing omg I am going to smack you.’
Becky knows that she can’t actually get in trouble for breaking into her own home, and that any neighbors about are gonna be mildly annoyed by some dipshit yelling at worst and probably won’t even wake up. There’s no risk in what she’s doing. Some of us just show our love through being the most annoying, contrary buttheads we can, because sometimes doing the worst thing shows everyone that it wasn’t really that bad in the first place. <3
Hmm, that’s an interesting point and it makes me think of Mike and Becky. Mike is abusive to his friends and anyone in his vicinity and is frequently cited by commenters as “making people better by being an asshole” even though he has only hurt and alienated people and made their issues so much worse (convincing Amber/AG not to reach out to friends about her emotions, convincing Ethan to go back into the closet and try to be straight). Whereas Becky doesn’t intend to do that, but her outbursts of wackiness have unintentionally been of great benefit to Joyce.
I’m thinking specifically about Joyce freaking out about Becky being out and proud or freaking out about her dating a non-christian or about her dating a girl and Becky shrugging off the freak out and doing what she does has accidentally forced Joyce to have to grow to deal with it.
Let her get from “no one must know you’re a lesbian” to “smiling when you kiss your dinosaur girlfriend”. Let her get from “Becky no being in the halls” to “Becky can coordinate my room party”. Let her get from “I must never be bad by breaking rules” to “Maybe sometimes it’s okay to get angry at one’s parents or lie to an authority figure or do something I was told I was wrong.”
Every time Becky has shrugged off a Joyce freak out, Joyce has grown from it (completely by accident).
So it’s interesting that Mike gets this love for a thing he’s not doing whereas a character accidentally doing an even milder form of that gets hated because she’s queer and “annoying”.
I think rarely being seen and his words taken for sarcasm are what helps. Not his fault that those that he talks to don’t get it?
Interesting… I didn’t even consider that Becky’s earnestness was working against her in that way. But I can definitely see that for Mike. It’s “ugh, I was being sarcastic, bro” as a character trait.
I don’t really like Mike, either.
Or Walky (and have said so).
Or… shall I keep going?
I’ll say exactly one nice thing about Mike, because I feel like it’s deserved:
He definitely was trying to convince Ethan not to pretend to be straight. The rest are just him being shitty (I mean, I know why people say it’s not, but I don’t think it’s supported in the text itself), but that was him genuinely trying to convince Ethan to not pretend to be straight. He was phrasing everything the way he did to make it sound like a bad thing, and at the very end, when Ethan comes to the conclusion that he should, in fact, pretend to be straight, his only response is a big “wow”, a bone he graciously threw the audience so we could see that, for sure and this one time, he isn’t actually positing the horrible thing is a good idea. I don’t know why he had it in his head this would work, and it’s the only time I can see that he was trying not to bring something bad about, though.
Mind that I like the kid for /failing/ to raise everyone’s hackles and overall more just being annoying than the puppetmaster I feel like he see shimself as XD
Hell yes, I like seeing him thwarted, especially by Dorothy, but I get sad to see her having to deal with his shit as the background radiation of dating Walky.
Nothing can possibly go wrong with this plan.
…. primarily because we can’t rightly call iit a “plan”.
Shout! Shout! Let it all out!
These are the things I can do without
Come on! I’m talking to you! Come on!
Quietly making noise, making noise
Pissin’ off the old killjoys
Glass packs on a hot Mustang —
A Telecaster with a twang.
Quietly, quietly, quietly making noise!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASDb7aA8vJo
Tip the glasses, crack the plates
That’s what Bilbo Baggins hates
That’s what Bilbo Baggins hates
So carefully, carefully, with the plates
Blunt the knives and bend the forks
Smash the bottles, turn the corks
That’s what Bilbo Baggins hates
So carefully, carefully, with the plates!
Would that be Shout by Tears For Fears or the newer Shout 2000 by Disturbed? I like both…
Time to see if this laptop can take over while the desktop is down…
becky’s into girls and unsettling the stuffy old folks
Oh my GOD becky you are killing me xD
I think she might literally be killing Joyce. She ages by a year every time Becky does something like this, and she does it a lot.
she has now reached the stage where her face is all-roundness
What do you put on the tombstone of someone aged to death by embarrassment?
Nothing, Joyce prefers her pizza toppings separate from the crust.
probably “sacrifice becky’s urge to do anything people shouldn’t do and i will come back from the dead”
If Becky was a ninja, she would wear bright orange and scream BELIEVE IT!
She could learn stealth from Dina. I mean, if Dina can stand right next to people while dressed in a Tricera-Top and people don’t notice her, she could totally teach her skills to Becky.
Becky the lesbian ninja dinosaur. Somebody make a TV show now!
Oh God. If Dina and Becky ever ended having a family they would end up raising a bunch of Narutos, wouldn’t they?
Instead of wanting to become Hokage, they’d want to become paleontologists, dattebayo!
…
Shit, now I have an idea for a Naruto-DOA crossover fanfic.
I am ANGRY with you, PM. And don’t think you’re off the hook, Rukduk. You are both responsible for the stupid thing happening in my brain right now.
Sorry. I couldn’t control myself. I’ve been awake for 30 hours and the caffeine hasn’t properly worn off yet. I really shouldn’t have watched all of the Lord of the Rings extended edition movies in a row, but I was in the mood for some good ole’ Orc killing, and only J R R Tolkien and Peter Jackson can deliver that properly. I should probably not be at a keyboard or computer at the moment.
LOL GO BECKY GO
LOUD AND PROUD!!!!
*wakes up and goes to the window*
Tell me more…
Did she put up a fight?
Some people just don’t have that gift for larceny.
They aren’t born with the gift; they have to steal it.
BECKY NO -Ancient Klingon Proverb
what the heck; I replied in the wrong spot.
Weird thing is, it almost works anywhere today.
Book 5 title refrain
Joyce, you basically did a “Don’t do the thing!” which just encouraged her. You only have yourself to blame. lol
Blame does not work that way.
No, but guilt does. That’s why the expression survives.
hey, i just realized, but joyce may be typing something that is not entirely honest in that first panel
Actually technically breaking into your own house is legal, just frowned upon. I was bad at remembering keys throughout high school so I figured out plenty of break in tactics.
Technically?
And who frowns on it?
People that hate others and call the cops on them just to be dicks to them. That’s who frowns on it.
Also my friends mum, when our “break in” involved one of us falling through their shed roof and nearly impaling themselves on garden implements… We were young enough to find that hilarious, but in retrospect that was pretty dumb…
Frowned upon because sometimes you get someone who doesn’t know you live there and they call the police trying to be a good neighbor. And then the cops waste their time checking it out.
Also from your parents. My mom used to get upset when my sister would break into our house because she was like, “You’re just showing everyone how to do it!”
And once we broke the window doing it. Oops.
Sure, but the tenancy rights of adults who live rent-free in their parents’ house are ambiguous.
I think the text was meant as sarcasm, not so much a lie.
oh sure. joyce was being ironic. riiii~ght.
(#whatisironylol)
in all honesty, i think she was guiltily over-denying
Suspiciously Specific Denial, I believe.
yeah, she’s big on that
I can tell you what she’s not doing right now, eating delicious snacks.
But… no seriously don’t draw attention to yourselves right now. You are actually planning to do something covert and if any of your neighbors liked your dad, they could call the police and screw you over.
That would require somebody to like Toedad, though
Not a huge stretch considering they’re part of a fundie group. Exhibit A: Joyce’s mom defending Toedad, and also making disparaging comments to Becky about sending her father to prison.
This is why I do not attempt humour :<
Oh no, it *was* funny, until you consider that it could actually be true in this case 🙁
Doesn’t mean any of them liked him.
You think people who like people like Toedad are that rare?
Reality isn’t that nice.
Remember Joyce’s mom? The religious bigots will stick together no matter what. They are joined in hate.
#deadpan Yes, religious fundamentalists are all exactly the same.
Joyce and Mary? Best friends who never argue!
I believe Joyce no longer identifies as being a “Religious Fundamentalist”. Admitted, I don’t know if any fundies identify as such, it may just be what non-fundies call them. Well, the non-offensive thing that they’re called.
Gonna go out on a limb and assume just about no one liked Becky’s dad. Hank implied the family only associated with him because they were friends with his late wife, and unless everyone in the neighborhood is a hardcore evangelical (unlikely, even when I lived in the south I’d say that was 25% of people max), they probably had even less common ground with him.
You’d be surprised how much people will like you if they never see the crazy. My step-mom is the worst but people who have only had casual conversations with her would never know. They think she’s sweet.
Becky is probably KNOWN, though, and being locked out of the house isn’t unknown. The two blondes might be a problem, but if no one KNOWS about Toedad or anything Becky could speech her way into saying something akin to ‘I’m back on break; I don’t have a key, just getting in, don’t mind me!’ – That rhymes, so it’s true!
Yeah, except the people of the neighborhood probably are more of the “harass the lesbian for being a sinner” type than “friendly understanding neighbor” type. Especially considering her shouting.
Oh, I guarantee that Becky is known to them all. After all, Mrs. Brown knew the basic story before Joyce called her that evening, so I bet they all heard. They probably would call the cops on her, but the reality is that in Indiana she would have legal right to get into her dad’s house. In fact, she probably can get the sheriff to help her get in. This is because it was her residence of record and in order to change that Ross had to serve her with an eviction notice, after which point she would lose her right to be there 30 days after getting served her eviction notice. The only other way she would lose her residency there was to abandon that resudency for 30 days (and no, being away at college does not count). Trust me on this.
When I first saw the preview panels for this scene I thought the Trustworthy Trio had gotten kicked out of the Brown household or something.
BECKY YES!
…nobody tell PETA?
BECKY HELL YES!
Ohh Hell Yeah!
*Motions for beer to be thrown
“It’s the Stone Butch Stunner!”
“She’s stomping a mud hole in ’em and walkin’ it dry!”
Has Joyce been wearing her wrist brace over her shirt all day and I hadn’t realised?
At this point, Joyce needs to carry a tape recorder that plays “BECKY NO!” on loop.
Or just add an app to her phone.
a “Becky No!” app could be quite useful in RL too.
Joyce is on that slippery slope where she will either end up a drug mule or lose what is left of her humanity and become a parking inspector.
Or suck a million dicks.
In a row?
On the way through the parking lot?
becky youre not helping!
BECKY YES!
I am in serious suspense over who Joyce has been texting with!
for some reason i’m suspecting joe because of that one time she texted him an apology is class and he texted back–maybe they’ve kept up a weird secret correspondence?
Guys, its Dorothy. As much as I want it to be Joe, or anybody other than Dorothy, its Dorothy.
i don’t know why it would be kept a secret if it were dorothy, though; we’ve seen texts between them before, and we know she’s joyce’s best friend besides becky–it seems too obvious to be dorothy!
Well, but in a previous comment, Dorothy said she was texting with Joyce. I don’t know that Joyce has enough time to keep up two text correspondences in this level of detail AND keep up with Becky and deal with her family.
Dorothy said she was going to check in with Joyce – that’s not the phrasing that I would use if I were having an intricate ongoing text conversation. That’s the phrasing I’d use if I told a friend going into a stressful situation ‘hey text me if you need me’ and then I didn’t get a text.
Sure it is. Could mean she’s going check her accumulated text messages (not everyone lives in a state of Continuous Texting); could mean she’s read something that’s triggered a need for a direct conversation.
Well, we also know Dina was texting her. Modern phones make it very easy to manage multiple text conversations.
Maybe it’s even a group text.
Yeah, I have a feeling this will end up being an ‘everyone texting her” situation.
Whatever the reveal is, it probably isn’t as good as the suspense.
99% sure it’s Dorothy.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/checkingin/
Even though she says “checking in,” I doubt she would tell Walky too many details (Joyce probably wouldn’t be too happy about that).
I also doubt Joyce would be willing to talk to anyone other than Dorothy or maybe Ethan about this stuff. As friendly and open as she is, she doesn’t seem too keen on sharing a lot of her darker thoughts with many people.
Remember, Joyce and Becky have been BFFs for like always. The reason Joyce is so aghast in the last panel is that she’s afraid people will think that SHE is the girlfriend.
Hence why her triangular smile was replaced with the tri-black holes of despair.
Pretty sure Joyce is just continuing to be aghast at being about to do something super illegal.
I’d give it a fifty-fifty split.
Becky the idiot. Good grief girl, where are your brains, in your pants?
But I thought only men had a second brain down there. 😛
I don’t know, but people used to think stegosaurii had a second brain in their asses. I’m a bit unclear on what their reason was for that belief, but I’m sure it made perfect sense at the time.
Something something large body something something extra locomotive center to move it or something like that. I can’t really remember. That could also just be Pacific Room chewing chips loudly in the corner of my brain again, being obnoxious and making me lose track of who said what.
They believed the large nerve cluster in the spine was a second brain.
They also believed sauropods had to stay in the water to avoid collapsing under their own weight. So there’s that.
Their skeletons had an enlarged area of the spine near the hips that people thought housed a second brain that controlled the back half of the body because they thought that their walnut sized brains wouldn’t be able to send signals that far down their spines or something.
Well, she DID decide to date Dina, soooo
Becky, meet .
, meet Becky.
These two need a comic together.
WITH CATLIKE TREAD!
UPON OUR PREY WE STEAL!
IN SILENCE DREAD!
OUR CAUTIOUS WAY WE FEEL!
NO SOUND AT ALL!
WE NEVER SPEAK A WORD!
A FLY’S FOOTFALL WOULD BE DISTINCTLY HEARD!
I am not at all embarrassed to say that I immediately knew from where those lines had come… and feel obligated to add these:
Carefully on tiptoe stealing, Breathing gently as we may,
Every step with caution feeling, We will softly steal away.
(foot stamps)
Goodness me — Why, what was that?
(solo voice)
Silent be — It was the cat!
Tarantara, tarantara!
COME, FRIENDS, WHO PLOUGH THE SEA!
TRUCE TO NAVIGATION! TAKE ANOTHER STATION!
LET’S VARY PIRACEE,
WITH A LITTLE BURGLAREE!
Goddammit Becky. Are you trying to make Joyce’s face permanently stuck like that?
“Some time later Joyce and Becky return to the university”
“Joyce, Becky! It’s good to see you folks….Joyce, is something wrong?”
“No, why do you ask?”
“Well the expression on your face says something else.”
“Oh that, Becky can tell you about it.”
“I told I was sorry!”
Actually if you review Becky’s conversations with Walky you’ll find that making Joyce’s face stuck like that is a multi-year project.
Becky texting with Joshlyn?
Drat edit, I meant Joyce.
Jocelyn is in panel 2, so probably not.
Also, it’s being withheld for a surprise reveal.
(I’d bet Joe, because them hooking up (hmmm or being besties, actually) in the future would be good symbolic character development for both of them, but I’d also have a long-odds flutter on Roz).
Given that Joe can’t even properly talk with his roommate/one of his best friends, I doubt he’d be very helpful to Joyce. I also doubt she’d talk to Roz, who seems more interested in chastising than helping.
I’m pretty sure it’s just gonna be Dorothy or something.
Becky texting with Joyce?
“Yep Becky, we saw on that weird webcomic we’ve been reading.”
Nice house. I expected a double wide. Either that, or a van down by the river filled withbgovernment cheese.
Ah, wrong Fundamentalist Christians. Joyce’s brother driving a brand new Mustang given to him by the Church marks them of disciples of the Prosperity Gospel. God showers riches upon the upright and devout while punishing sinners by making them poor.
I’m still trying to figure out how Creflo Dollar deserves his new airplane.
I’m still trying to figure out how anybody would listen to anything somebody with a name like THAT has to say.
Seriously, that name is so cartoony it’s ridiculous. Heck, the only way it could be more surreal would be if his first name was Scrooge.
He needs it to fly to Heaven, of course.
He changed the first name from “Crapflow”.
Goddamnit Becky, don’t Beck up this operation.
BECKY YES!
Meanwhile, at the neighbor’s house…
“Honey, wake up! I think I hear burglars!”
“No dear, that’s just lesbians. Nothing to worry about.”
Where’s the “like” button?
WHERE IS THE GODDAMMED “LIKE” BUTTON??
Slaps you.
GET IT TOGETHER MAN!
It’s a goddamn bug hunt!! Game over, man! Game over!
In the hearts of children everywhere…
(Bicycle Bill punches open the chest of a child looking for the like button)
… I immediately regret my statement.
“….why are there lesbians in our street?”
“lesbians are everywhere nowadays. Don’t you watch Fox news?”
“Oh, fair enough. Good night.”
“No, it’s just lesbians. They’re trying to nest in the chimney, get me the broom.”
This one is my favorite.
Dina would break up with here if she didn’t immediately make a “Dodgson, we’ve got Dodgson here!” reference.
I love the Becky split in the comments.
Yay Becky! vs Damn you Becky!
WHO WILL WIN!?
Us the readers.
Funny thing is, I’m sure Becky would be happy with the DAMN YOU response. She WANTS to be the irresponsible, goofy one.
Me, too, since, at least, this far down, all of it has been fun and playful and not Becky is scum (or Becky is a total angel and how dare you!)
Joyce is just having twelve different breakdowns today.
Meanwhile, Becky is going on her “Hey World, I’m a Lesbian!!” tour.
Seems like a pretty awesome tour. I would like to see the tour Tshirt.
Yotome probably has some draft already made.
One of the neighbors is going to lend them a crowbar.
On the condition that they steal back the lawnmower that Ross borrowed years ago and never returned
I truly believe that is exactly what will happen.
“Also, next time you talk to your father in jail, let him know that I WAS right about how to trim your apple trees.”
I have this image of the police getting called, showing up. Joyce, Becky, and Jocelyn explain what’s going on. The police unlock the door for them (because Becky’s lawful residence). As the cops leave, they say “just call us or the fire department next time, okay?”
Becky is humming the mission impossible theme the entire time.
#YES #SOLD
The police have keys to her house?
The police have keys to every house. They just don’t like to talk about it. If they did they might find it harder to lounge about in your house when you’re away.
So stop complaining about it. We bring our own beer, and clean up afterwards.
Why. Why would you do this. To make Joyce uncomfortable? Or because you actually want to get caught doing this thing that needs to get done. C’mon dude.
Because this is a comic and occasionally there has to be a punchline?
Fair enough, I just don’t find the ‘Becky does thing to make Joyce uncomfortable’ gag to be funny anymore, especially when Joyce is trying to help Becky.
For reasons not shown, that you have to accept as-given-in-Narrarative ,
Becky has a lifetime free pass ( by Joyce ) to be obnoxious and take Joyce out of her comfort zone. That Joyce wouldn’t accept from someone else.
Shes grandfathered-claused in. Its a given for Narrative and Humor purposes.
If Willis wants to tell this backstory, what becky did to deserve such Loyalty from Joyce, he will.
Inappropriate here, but 99/100 joyce probably needs a litle ribbing, and becky is the only who can do it — without Joyce feeling persecuted.
If Becky actually lived her life to make Joyce comfortable, she’d have to have a different haircut, and stay closeted, and not have sex, and not learn biology. never challenge authority figures, not kiss Dina.
it would be never-ending.
Becky had her back on No-alcohol party.
This is a very solid point! I suppose since I haven’t seen very much of the relationship between Becky and Joyce prior to Becky’s return, I wasn’t really sure what to think about how Becky treated her.
For me on a personal level, I’ve never been about anyone having exclusive rights to make you uncomfortable. Since I don’t know their relationship beyond what I’ve seen, all I’m aware of is that Becky is supportive during times of hardship, but can be quite inconsiderate of Joyce’s feelings when things are going OK.
I always interpreted Joyce’s acceptance of Becky’s intentional ribbing as begrudging acceptance, since we all have been in a place where we put up with someone’s behavior despite our own feelings because we love them; usually these types of relationships are regrettable in the long one, or at least have been in my experience.
But you’re right. If we assume that when becky bugs Joyce about things to get a rise out of her that it’s al in good fun, Becky seems like a much better person. I suppose that’s what being a best friend can be sometimes, but Joyce’s character is very high-strung, so it’s always hard to tell what’s meant to be comedic and what’s actually a problem to her.
And you’re right, Becky shouldn’t live her life to conform to Joyce’s comfort. becky deserves to be out, to explore science and sex, and to look however she chooses. These are things that may make Joyce uncomfortable, but they’re none of her business, and i would never argue otherwise. Seeing Becky rib Joyce and it being OK because they’re best friends leaves a bad taste in my mouth though, as I dont know their relationship well enough to interpret it as Ok.
Maybe if I had read Willis’ other comics I would have a different attitude towards the relationship, but as I’ve seen it, there have been questionable interactions between the two of them that have given me pause as to ask if this was really a good friendship. Discussions like these help clarify or give another perspective so I can enjoy the comic and these characters more. So for that, I thank you for your reply.
Agreed with all of the above.
Well the dynamic goes back to the poop joke in the very first strip, so it comes from long before the haircut or coming out of the closet. We saw more of it when Becky first showed up at IU, before she came out to Joyce.
It’s not something Joyce puts up with, near as I can tell, it’s actually part of their friendship.
and that, I think, is my essential/fundamental point of conflict.
I cannot accept that is okay, that it’s right. I just can’t. Even if Joyce does, even if everyone does, it’s not right by me.
At best I can tolerate it, in the “put up with it” sense (see South Park). But not accept or approve of it.
That behavior is just wrong, no matter when or who, but especially from a “friend.”
My personal belief/opinion/axiom/button.
(“that behavior”, for clarity and in my opinion, being:
“I’m going to mess with you, troll you, poke you, provoke you – not to educate, not to get you to consider your beliefs, but simply to amuse myself and/or others present. Because I think this moment needs a laugh, and you’ve been selected to be the butt of the joke, the punchline – emphasis on ‘punch’.”)
In the context of a coping strategy, something done out of fear (see below) … I can see and understand that, but still think it’s unhealthy and not okay (though not as bad as, oh, Amber’s) and that it would be better for everyone (including Becky herself) if she finds a better one at some point.
At no point is Becky doing anything to deeply bother Joyce. She’s not being mean and I highly doubt she would force Joyce to do anything she knows would cause her great distress. Sure, she’s talked Joyce into doing things, but it’s never been more than a gentle push or reassurance that things will be okay. Sometimes people need that, especially when they come from a background where nonconformity and crazy antics aren’t accepted.
I don’t think she’s trying to genuinely make Joyce uncomfortable. She’s having fun and messing around because she knows Joyce is overreacting. Becky knows the neighbors aren’t going to pay them any mind. She knows nothing will happen if people find out she’s gay. It’s almost a form of sacrifice, I think, for Becky. She knows it will be okay or she knows it has to be dealt with, and she knows Joyce won’t do it, so she might as well rip the bandage off and get it over with herself. If it really, truly bothered Joyce, I don’t think she would take it as much as she does. She’s shown she has no problem letting people know when she’s upset. And if Becky really crossed a line, she would probably realize right away.
They’ve been friends for most of their lives. This is the dynamic of some friendships (I have a few of them myself). It’s not malicious or damaging. If anything, it can be extremely beneficial to someone like Joyce. And from how things have been shown, I’m guessing Becky has just always been a goof.
To my knowledge, no one’s seen much of the Joyce/Becky dynamic before due to that she’s an original character in this ‘verse. Though I do now wonder what she’d be like over in the Walkyverse.
That goes a long way in explaining how the heck you dislike Becky so much. If you thought she was actually being horrible to Joyce, then no wonder! The idea that anyone might think that didn’t even occur to me. It honestly just felt like you hated her for no reason, which is why I was so harsh before. Your claims of her being crappy to people didn’t make sense, since I just completely ignored how she treats Joyce as being “how their friendship works.”
But, yeah, I’m pretty sure that, if Joyce didn’t like it, she would either not be such lifelong friends, or their interactions would be different. In fact, the dynamic I see now is that Becky pushes Joyce out of her comfort zone, which makes me think that’s what has helped her not be such a fundamentalist Fundy.
Becky is FAMILY to Joyce. And not the type that you reluctantly accept due to blood. She sped through months and years that it takes to accept that God might be okay with homosexuality in just a few days. Their relationship has to be absolutely amazing.
I never did.
As noted in previous comments, I have a low tolerance for trolls of any sort. Particularly those who like to troll “friends” and/or family.
(but I acknowledge that’s at least partly a personal issue.)
I’m in a very similar place. People who like to dig on you due to your relationship giving them some sort of pass are not my favorite type of people. To me that seems to be what hurts the most if you’re sensitive to that sort of thing, which I can be. This is why I struggle with Becky and Joyce’s relationship, but as I stated above, maybe Adam Black is correct and the two of them have some sort of understanding. Until it’s truly confirmed though, I’m going to continue to struggle with it.
But Joyce likes her.
And now that we’ve seen more of their dynamic, it’s clear why. There’s a lot of care and mutual tenderness and they are both the sort to bleed for their friends. Becky’s jokes are just that, jokes, absent much genuine malice or even maligning of identity. And Joyce’s freakouts have a lot more to do with Becky’s existence and the necessities of her circumstances pulling her out of a lot of comfort zones.
Becky’s earning of loyalty is seen in her being here. In her putting aside her own emotional processing to sit by the roadside and comfort Joyce. In her literally sacrificing herself to be abused to keep Joyce from getting any more triggered and traumatized by Toedad’s gun. In her hiding Joyce’s mom’s emotional abuse cause she knew that would worry and pain Joyce. In her simply taking John and Carol’s literal dehumanizations with grace and aplomb so as to minimize how bad the situation could get. In her trying to follow Carol’s insane rules to minimize the amount of trouble Joyce was getting into standing up for her. In her pushing through her jealousy and her feelings of loss for a relationship that never was to do right by her. In all her check-ins this last week, making sure that Joyce was okay and never alone outside where she could be brutally triggered with no aid. In her giant heart and actions. In the history they’ve shared together.
So Joyce may freak out about jokes like this, but that is not much a discomfort compared to all the ways Becky brings comfort and feelings of safety for her. And if she was honest, the freakout is more the product of how she was raised and the poison twisting at her. Because she was told that things like loud pride, public displays of affection between women, pre-marital hanky-panky, curse words, and so on were tickets to Hell.
It is the freakout of Joyce still adapating and learning to adjust to the world as is.
I agree with a lot of the things you said! As I wrote in an earlier reply, Joyce and Becky’s dynamic seems to be the most supportive and uplifting when things are going poorly. It’s during these moments when the best parts of their friendship come out: when Becky performs an act of heroism by going tight Toedad, or when Joyce risks her parents ire and pull of financial support by taking becky in when she needed her most.
And yes, sometimes Joyce’s reactions are products of Becky’s new identity and behavior clashing with the conditioning Joyce is trying to shake, and on that end the friction that occurs is on Joyce, not Becky (the crowning example is when Joyce yelled at Becky for pursing science with Dina, since it went against her religious background).
However, during points of positive or neutral interaction, Becky’s taunts and jeers can range from things about her sexuality, to anything that can make Joyce squirm, and it’s in that second category that things get uncomfortable. Becky has made a point to say that a lot of the jokes she makes that get Joyce upset are meant to do just that: get Joyce upset.
Joyce has displayed a clear tendency towards anxiety and awkwardness, especially in situations outside her realm of control or familiarity. Becky, who knows this, still chooses to perform actions or say things that will get a rise out of Joyce (that again, don’t have to do with her identity).
It’s during these moments that I feel uncomfortable about their relationship. When the script isnt about Joyce coming to terms with her fucked up opinions clashing with her best friend, but instead in a normal setting, where Joyce is still the butt of “lol look how mad/upset she gets” that’s when their relationship is the ugliest. That’s when I think that Joyce begrudgingly accepts things, rather than being mostly okay with them.
I can see that interpretation. I don’t necessarily share it, but it’s a totally valid thing to be offput about in their dynamic.
Thank you. I realize that our interpretations vary wildly, and we may not always be able to meet in the middle because our triggers and experiences are much different. Still, it’s nice to know that we can come to a place of mutual acceptance all the same.
I would point out that Becky went with Ross because he had a freaking gun. She was afraid he would shoot someone. She didn’t go with him to prevent Joyce from being triggered. She went with him to prevent Joyce from being dead. Still very much a sacrifice because I believe Ross was perfectly capable of.committing murder to get what he wanted.
Because she’s still overcompensating for a lifetime of being in the closet by making her lesbianism known to as many people as possible, especially the people she was closeted around.
And because she doesn’t think through consequences.
Both are very true, I suppose that does cover the rhetorical ‘why’ that was posed by me.
Because Becky ups the wacky when she’s terrified, nervous, and sad.
Like, everyone seems to be assuming that Becky is doing this to get a rise out of Joyce or because she’s proud of being a lesbian, but let us not forget this comic:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/04-walking-with-dina/downer/
Becky’s wacky fun persona gets kicked into hyperdrive when things are scary and awful for her because she feels she has to do that to retain what little support network she has. She is convinced that if she lets herself collapse into a sobbing mess that no one will want to hang out with her.
This is her coping strategy for the massive amount of shit and trauma she’s had to deal with being a teenager with little to nothing to call her own and little training for the adult real world.
And here? She’s standing in front of her old house. A house that represents so much in terms of Toedad’s awfulness, that holds memories of her mother and her old life, that is everything she may never have again and certainly will never have again by blood.
She’s in a neighborhood that probably represents a lot of shame and awfulness for her. She’s been in a town that just represents a giant rejection of her personhood. She’s had two sets of Browns run her through the riot act for being queer and treating her like an unperson. She’s had Joyce acting weird all morning and refusing to tell her what’s going on and why she took the car. And she’s about to break the law.
Becky is shit-sprayingly terrified right now. Possibly even more so than Joyce. And while Joyce responds to stress by trying to gain some measure of control over her surroundings, Becky responds like this, getting louder, wackier, and more defiantly proud of the things she was told to hate.
And the fact that she can keep going through all this trip is bringing up, all that being in front of this house is bringing up is downright heroic.
So let her be a bit wacky. It’s better this than having the mask break now while they’re about to do something of questionable legality.
This is a very good point! I suppose I didn’t think of this because the way Becky is drawn here doesn’t really convey any hidden distress or emotion. The way I saw her is that she looks positively neutral until the last panel, when she realizes that she has an opportunity to make a joke. Still, it doesn’t invalidate your interpretation of the situation, but Author X and Shiro also posed viable answers to my comment which stray away from your analysis. While I’m not positive that your outlook is the definitive one, it was still a fresher, cleaner way to look at the situation. Thank you for putting this much thought into your answer!
Please look forward to my next comment: The value of $20; Are homophobia or classism even real issues anymore?
Heh. Your last paragraph made me laugh. Well done.
Yes, but she’s upping the wacky in a way that’s liable to get 2 chars that I like shot and/or arrested, so I don’t have a lot of patience for it. They’re here purely for her, the absolute least she can do is to try to keep them from getting caught.
This is a similar place to where my frustration came from, yes. I suppose we’ll have to wait and see if things go right so we can eat our words.
Spoiler: In this comic, nothing ever goes right.
They’re white. They’re not getting shot.
Arrested? Maybe. But I could easily see Joyce and Jocelyne getting a warning while Becky’s taken to an overnight jail visit and a morning release with “no charges filed”.
Also, it’s not like Becky came up with this plan initially, this is Jocelyne’s show.
Also, it was Joyce who was freaking out and drawing attention until the last panel. Just like every other time Joyce has freaked out about Becky “drawing too much attention to herself”.
And let us not forget that upping the wacky is not exactly something she can control.
That’s what coping strategy means. It’s not what you rationally choose as a best action, it’s the liferaft you cling to in a storm to keep from being swept under the waves.
That’s not really fair. While POC are much more likely to be brutalized by olive officers, it’s not like white people are just immune from it ever happening to them. Moreover members of the LGBT community who are open about who they are are more likely to be attacked regardless of race, meaning that if they were to haul in Becky and Becky alone there’s a good chance they wouldn’t be gentle (although I doubt she would be the only one to go to jail anyway. If the police are going to be bigots they’re not going to ignore Joyce and Joss because they’re straight since they’re helping Becky).
While this was Joss’ idea if Becky was uncomfortable with it or didn’t see the importance of gaining this information she wouldn’t have agreed to it, since she’s very outspoken.
While Joyce is the one who is freaking out in the early panels Becky implies that everything said with regular text has been at whispering-level in the third panel, which makes Becky’s scream at the idea of the neighbors being able to hear them a distinct test of fate.
Whether or not Becky is doing this voluntarily or not really depends on if this is a coping moment or not. While Becky does use humor and bombastic behavior to deflect her true emotions, she also acts in this manner when feeling neutral or genuinely positive. In some of the replies to this thread people chalked up the yell to a need for comedic effect, or a simple loss of impulse control. Even you labeled it act an act of defiance in one of your later comments. Granted, her actions could be explained by one or all of these reasonings, but none of them are definitive until we get more information from later strips.
So, I see Viktoria’s frustrations as valid. While this is an emotional time for Becky, her feelings don’t take precedence over the trio’s safety, or the need for success of this break-in for Becky to be more independent down the line. Thus, the last panel can rage from an unfortunate result of her coping method, to an act of defiance that can be seen as foolish given the current circumstances.
Whoops, missed my proof. Let’s all pretend it says “police” officers in the second sentence, rather than imagining a gang of olives abusing their power.
Google is my friend. There is a town named ‘Olive’ in New York that has…
True on the police harassment of queer folk. I still think Jocelyne and Joyce will be fine in that eventuality though for the reasons you mention, which puts them at little danger compared to Becky. So this whole thing that people are discomforted about Becky doing is something that if it backfires, will almost certainly solely backfire on her. Which is something she’s accepted gracefully when it’s happened. Far more gracefully than I would, certainly.
And yeah, Becky would have spoken up if she had an issue with the plan, but it’s still Jocelyne’s show. And Becky legitimately feels this is her best option for getting the documents she needs to start her life.
And yeah, totes, Becky is definitely tempting fate last panel, no disagreement there. And I fully agree on Joyce being at a whisper. It’s more the visual. Like, three teens walking to a house is one thing, one of them freaking out visually like they’re worried about getting caught for mischief is more likely to draw some curious curtain-twitcher’s attentions.
Yeah, she’s a wacky person, but the reason I specify her playing up the wacky, is because when she goes into overdrive has consistently been in moments of great stress. I mean, think about the moments where she was at peak wacky?
1) Her return visit from Anderson, where she was hiding the fact that she was homeless and her dad wanted to take her away to a camp to fix her and she literally believed that Joyce was her last hope to avoid literally living under a bridge. Sequence ends with her crying on the steps.
2) Post car-crash with Toedad, joking and laughing with friends, highlighting their stuff being super wacky. Sequence has in the middle her crying talking to her dad.
3) Her interactions with Dorothy. Which are due to intense feelings of jealousy for the close almost dating relationship she has with Joyce and how much that reminds her of her old dynamic with Joyce. The dynamic that convinced her that Joyce had feelings back. No panels of crying, but we’ve gotten her looking sad at Apples to Apples cards, admitting her issues of not being over Joyce and her jealousy over Dorothy, and internally screaming when Walky tells her that they were fake married.
4) This trip. Which her facial expressions when initially meeting Carol again speak all that needs to be said on that. I’d put legitimate money down on her breaking down and crying this arc, probably in that house after splitting off a little from the others.
So yeah, she’s wacky and defiant just because that’s who she is. But she’s more and way less controlled at it and more likely to do collateral damage when she’s scared out of her wits and in intense emotional pain.
I mean, that can be bad. As you note, this can potentially affect the success of something that she feels she absolutely needs. But it’s not like she’s doing this to be a prat.
Your response to what I said is well-thought-out and valid! I don’t have much to add to it, but I wanted to let you know I read it through. Here’s hoping she doesn’t cry this arc.
She’s probs gonna cry this arc.
She’s def gonna cry this arc.
And thanks.
I’m aware of all of this. I also think she needs to find a new one, because this one is (IMO) disrespectful to people who are actually trying to help her.
… also, if this is so hard for her to deal with that she’s going to possibly fuck up what the Brown sisters are trying to do for her, maybe she should have stayed a couple of blocks away and let them do it without her (so far) opposite of help.
or, she could make like Carla and go in solo, with no help from allies, and take back her own life. That could work too, if she’s up to it.
This, though, this middle plan where they all go, is actually the most likely to fail, IMO.
A) Initially, she made one joke and then prepared to enter. It was Joyce who stopped, freaked out and then confronted her for daring to reach out to Joyce who was freaking out because Joyce is getting paranoid because this is not something she feels comfortable doing. And that’s the thing.
That bit about staying a few blocks back? That’s probably what Joyce should be doing, because Jocelyne and Becky are used to breaking rules and being more nonchalant and Joyce for all her wonderful beautiful qualities is so very much not.
Yes, she’s trying to help, but this is out of her depth.
B) You don’t control your coping strategy for shit like this. It’s the default you click over.
Like, you can change it, but that requires a herculean amount of effort and focus and even then is not always fully successful and its the reason why undoing now poisonous survival strategies from surviving abusive childhoods is often the sort of thing that involves years of intensive therapy and even then, is not always successful.
Right now, this is extra complicated by this being Becky’s sole coping strategy to keep from being a crying heaving mess and she literally can’t afford that right now. To stay alive as a homeless woman who wants to return to school, she has a lot of plates she needs to keep spinning and can’t afford to let anything drop by trying to invent a possibly less successful coping strategy for getting through this.
And I get that, because it’s a really shitty situation I know well of having to adopt something that has genuine consequences for your long term mental health (let us not forget she’s reinforcing the notion that everyone will abandon her if she lets on how broken she feels inside every time she ups the wacky like this) because right now, being functional in the short-term is literally the difference between starvation with endless collapse and holding it tightly with your teeth so the pieces don’t scatter.
C) A little unfair, donchathink? This isn’t like Becky wanted to do this and cajoled them to come. Jocelyne came up with the plan and Joyce volunteered. This is aid freely given out of love. And it’s been reciprocated to Becky’s very thorough emotional harm this entire weekend.
I mean, for fuck’s sake, she’s in the town she was less than a week ago being dragged towards at gunpoint for the purpose of torturing her so much she denied her reality until the point where she could run away and never contact her friends again so they would never again be put in danger from her awful father.
She’s here in this place that triggers her and reminds her of how much she was raised to hate herself, in this place where people feel comfortable shitting on her to her face, in this place where two sets of Browns have treated her like utter crap and have literally blamed her for her current lot in life because she dared be a lesbian.
She’s dealt with way more than she should have a right too. More than most of us could politely tolerate without flipping the tables, because she’s here supporting Joyce in her time of need, making enormous sacrifice on her behalf.
For the second time in this last week, mind, seeing as how she entered into Toedad’s car to protect Joyce and the other students being any more terrorized and triggered by her awful canker sore of a father.
And that’s what perennially annoys me about these “God, Becky so ungrateful and selfish” style posts.
They’re bullshit.
Becky is single-handedly the most self-sacrificing, selfless person in the entire cast. She suffers, she’s wacky to hide the true extent of the awful she’s going through, because she sees her very emotions as an imposition on others. She goes out of her way to praise and thank everyone who helps her out and lets them feel fully like big damn heroes by hiding her internal conflict about everything.
She has on so many occasions put herself through some awfulness to try and do right by another, to the extent of literally trying to draw the attention of a man with a gun in the hopes that that would save her girlfriend’s life.
Becky is not ungrateful, is not selfish, and this coping strategy is not “disrespectful”, it is filled with an unhealthy amount of love and respect for her friends.
Cause Becky can cry in private, in a room with her father that no one knows is happening, all to keep anyone from worrying about her. Because she doesn’t want to suck anyone into that kind of shit. She reacts to her girlfriend trying to treat her to dinner by trying to find a job so she won’t have to rely on the kindness of her friends to eat.
She is here in front of this house that represents so much pain, because she’s actively trying to reboot her life as fast as possible so she won’t “impose” on their kindness and put Joyce and her friends at risk for getting caught hiding an illegal resident by the school.
So fuck the notion that she is “disrespectful” or “ungrateful”.
Thank you for that long, detailed, and well-argued response.
Yeah, Becky acting out as a coping mechanism, and being completely terrified right now, makes a lot more sense than her just not thinking about it like I suggested. It also sounds a lot smarter than what I said so it’s probably true.
Well, I mean, she’s also an 18 year old kid with all the full awareness of the consequences of her actions that that entails, so I don’t think your point is without merit as well.
She is proud after a lifetime of being told that that was a crime that would get you sent to literal Hell. She does act first, deal with what may second even if that results in some short-term awful (see her deciding to call 911 and record Toedad even though doing that got her backhanded upside the head).
I mean, there is a reason that her loud shout is about being a lesbian rather than some other in-joke.
Very good discussion all of you.
Thanks.
joyce’s faces in this strip :'( so cute
I have a theory.
Mary is actually Joyce’s worst side given human form, that persists and grows stronger as Joyce gets rid of her prejudice.
Alternate theory
Mary actually left weeks ago, and the Mary fighting Carla, Ruth, and Billie is actually just a mass hallucination shared by all three of them. Their fears given human form.
Mary and Joyce are actually two halves of the same person, whose soul was divided into two when an alchemist improperly tried to transmute a human back to life. Mary was placed in a different body and given a new identity with no memories from before her “birth” as it were. Both have since grown into full and distinct souls, and if they were ever to spend more than a few hours together would explode like anti-matter coming into contact with regular matter. Unless they learned the fusion dance, in which case they would become Joary.
Future evil guy (lets call him the youth pastor, I have suspicions)
Pastor: You will never defeat me Joyce Brown, you are simply too weak! NOW! Watch as the world burns in everlasting hellfire! Watch as the sins of the world are burned away!
Mary: Not yet!
Pastor: What do you mean not yet..this is what we’ve worked for!
Mary: Because, in a world where everyone follows our ideals, what room is there for me!? And as much as I hate to admit it….I need them, I need Carla, I need Ruth! And so I say bringer of darkness…SOUL BIND!!!
Danny: Whats happening!?
Leslie: Joyce and Mary were a being who’s should was separated years ago, and now Mary’s attempting to reconnect them!
Amber: but she’ll die!
Ruth: (In the distance) heh, so this is your final atonement Mary? See ya around kid. (single tear)
Joyce: Mary, NO!
Mary’s body melts away as her should enters into Joyce.
Joyce: DAMNIT MARY!!!
Joyce runs and socks the Pastor in the Jaw, sending him flying.
who was (stupid should)
I was expecting something more like this:
Pastor: Fools! You can’t stop me! No one can stop me from bringing about the end of the world for my true master! Muahahahaha!
Mary (in her head): Every…everything I believed…was a lie. A twisted falsehood. I was…wrong. About everything. Wait. No. Not everything.
Joyce: What else can we do? There has to be a way to stop him!!
Mary: There is. We have to put our trust in the only part of my worldview that is still intact. We must use the power…of Anime!!!
Joyce&Mary: FU! SION! HA! WE ARE JOARY!!! WE ARE GOING TO FUCK YOU UP!
Billie: This has to be the single most nerdy thing I’ve ever seen.
Walky: No it isn’t.
Billie: (sigh) No it isn’t.
Of course you need the epic battle between Joyce and Mary before hand.
Danny, Sal, Carla, Amber, Billie, Walky, Joyce, Ruth, Ethan and Becky run down a hallway. Only to be blocked by Mary.
Joyce: Mary!
Mary: Hello, Joyce. I’ve learned some stuff about us today!
Joyce: So have I…so this is how its going to end, huh.
Mary: There can only be one.
Joyce: So be it.
Danny: Don’t worry, Joyce its ten against one!
Joyce: No…you guys rescue Dina, I can deal with Mary.
Joyce turns to Mary.
Joyce: Face me, sister.
Mary: Don’t call us sisters…(Rushes at Joyce) WHEN WERE AS DIFFERENT AS NIGHT AND DAY!
We focus on everyone else for awhile before turning to Joyce and Mary with their battle underway.
Joyce: So, this your destiny Mary? To be a monster!? (kicks her in the stomach)
Mary: Its what I was born to do! (blocks Joyce’s kick)
Joyce: That’s what I thought once too…
Mary: NO! you could never understand! (punches Joyce)
Mary: So you are stronger, then me…but not for long! These bracelets act as power limiters, but I don’t know how long I can keep my sanity without them!
Joyce: her power is incredible now, I can’t hold back anymore!
Mary: HAHAHAAHAHAHA!
After an oddly long battle
Joyce: MARY. GOD. DAMN. YOU! (Slams her and Mary through a series of walls, ending up with everyone else)
Mary: Heh, guess you win this fight, Joyce Brown.
During part of the fight:
Mary: You don’t understand!! You were the base person! You had joy, and love, and hope! All I ever had was anger and hate! That was all you left me!! Why?!? Did you?!? Get to be?!? The better half?!?
Joyce: I grew, you didn’t!
Mary: I never had the chance to become complete!! But once you’re gone I finally will!
…
Holy shit but I’ve watched way too much angsty anime if I’m capable of typing this sort of story idea.
Joyce: The only choices you make are your own!
Years back I heard the mass hallucination theory attached to Danny, as an outlet for pain/grief of college.
Like Dorian Grey…. only with the portrait walking around causing trouble.
Joyce’s faces never stop being a delight.
Becky yes!
Well, there we go. When subtlety and quiet are what you want, what you want is not Becky.
Yay for being happy with yourself, boo for being the lousiest breaking-into-yer-own-house thief ever.
Joyce, no. There’s no through line between drawing ding-dongs on doors and grand larceny.
Now, “consorting with atheists and homosexuals”, that definitely was a gateway crime to grand larceny.
I was going to say that for it to be a gateway whatever there has to be a logical connection…
… but now that I think about it, I cannot for the life of me recall a single thing described as a gateway [crime, drug, whatever] that actually HAD that logical connection.
I think that means Joyce is using the word right.
… Huh. Maybe it’s just the fact that I should be asleep by now, but that really made me pause and absorb it. Well said, Reltzik.
When I was in college & living with my grandparents, they had seven rules. One of them had to be there if I had friends over (punk-lite look), 11pm curfew (understandable), no smoking (same), no drinking (wasn’t old enough), not allowed to get piercing or tattoos (odd), and lastly, wasn’t allowed to have long hair (yeah). I think the belief was that if I had long hair it would have lead to me breaking all the other rules. It was a running joke with my friends and I had.
Becky yes! Lol but seriously Becky you are giving Joyce a heart attack.
I love Becky! Wish I could be so unafraid. I am hoping the whole neighborhood is staunchly anti-fundie or at least anti-Toedad.
If Joyce and Becky’s families are the average type of person for this neighborhood, I’m afraid you’re going to be disappointed.
I am still at a loss of how any of this is even close to illegal? Becky should not only lawfully own everything but assuming everything is paid have at least a month to move everything.
Is this just kids being stupid?
Depending on the situation, but in this case probably not. Becky is only here for the weekend, and has to stick with Joyce, since she’s her way back to the campus. Joyce has to spend the majority of this time with her family, giving Becky not a whole to of time to go through the process of getting into the house legally if she doesn’t have a key, which the whole break-in plot line implies that she doesn’t. Moreover, this town isnt very large. There’s a good chance people in the area know who Becky is and what she “did” to her father. If those people catch her trying to get back into this house that technically isn’t hers to enter, you can bet they’ll avoid acknowledging some of her rights to retrieve her stuff in order to make her life worse. Bonus points if these people are cops.
Because it’s not her house, it’s her dad’s. And the laws for rights of access get fuzzier when it comes to homeless teens and often punitive against the teens. In this case, it might not even come to legality one way or another, but rather how much some good ol’ Christian boys want to give the lesbian a good scare for getting her daddy, the church man, locked up.
Funny break-in hijinks!
Abuse of government power notwithstanding, this is completely legal. Becky’s Dad owns the property, and Becky as his child has the right to possess the house until Becky’s Dad revokes permission. Becky’s Dad has not revoked this permission, and in fact was actively trying to bring Becky back home just before he was taken into custody.
Yeah, but the abuse of government power is WAY more likely than people think. Cops are not friends to queer folk and especially not in small towns with deeply religious values. Where the cops likely went to the same megachurch as Toedad and the Browns.
Perhaps Becky doesn’t fully realize the risk here, because her previous interactions with cops were positive because that was in a more liberal area and the cops were appalled at Toedad’s actions. But here, she can at least be put through some serious harassment if the cops decide to hassle her.
Apparently, I pissed off a bigot:
https://twitter.com/damnyouwillis/status/733922462266753024
No. So sad. Such a loss.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_vvex_mfik
A banning well deserved.
You are their kryptonite.
Oh, I’m not arguing that Joyce, Jocelyne and Becky couldn’t get in trouble. They most certainly could. A lesbian, a transgender person and an angry girl in what looks like a very socially conservative town, acting in a manner that reasonable people would construe as breaking and entering? They could totally get in trouble.
I’m just saying their actions are totally legal. None of them, by right, should be subjected to fines or any loss of liberty beyond the time it takes to clarify that Becky has the right to access her Dad’s property.
Very true.
I suppose I mostly come from a perspective of having some rather painful lessons on how what is one’s legal rights and what will actually happen is often a gulf apart.
Legally this would be awkward and could end with some check-ins on legality for edge cases, but wouldn’t be too bad. In reality? There’s a chance we could find out or at least there’s enough possible to make the comment section really nervous.
‘Sometimes what one’s legal rights are Vs. what actually happens, are a gulf apart’
Just putting some emphasis on that bit you said, ‘cuz it’s super important.
Sorry to take some liberties with the paraphrasing there.
(I don’t know what exactly happened to you if anything regarding evac from parental house, and I am not trans, but I am a lesbian and police were summoned when I was attempting to get my stuff from my parents’ place, and it wasn’t so good for me. So… solidarity gesture??)
As an INTP type who is studying law and has suffered relatively little discrimination after growing mature enough to brush aside standard bullying, I very much appreciate your perspective on these issues, Cerberus.
You put thought into your posts and root your arguments in facts or experiences whenever possible. Dina would probably like you.
So how long after drawing a penis, do I have to wait to do a breaking & entering? I feel like this is a valuable bit of information.
…about two weeks, if I have my timeline right.
Tick Tock. Clock is ticking.
Let’s see… That storyline was the day before Becky came to campus, if I’m recalling correctly, so about a week and a half.
Oh, look a normal, suburban house. Not the compaund everyone was predicting when I said they should be doing this a month ago.
Nice Work Willis,
I always appreciate when you take us into a scene from an angle, AND
when the backgrounds are detailed , AND
when you shift visual viewpoints as the scene progresses.
and I totally know you spent hours on the backgrounds, Then covered them Up just because;
and then cursed yourself extra hard, between baby vomit , why you would make so much extra work for yourself.
( why dont you ever learn? and whos even going to notice ? )
But it pulls us into a scene , and its nicely done.
You shouldnt listen to my praise. You do it for you.
Shame you stopped airbrushing though. The shadows you could add on that red tree, and that roof.
i wonder if you ever walk by your old lonely airbrush, and think wistfully… “Man, I should a DOA retrosyle , with airbrushed shadows ” ?
anyone else see a new gravitar? ‘cuz I totally see a new gravitar
Joyce’s text is perfectly corect, so why is her first statement freaking out about larceny?
The next panel based on the alt-text:
Neighbor: Called it.
Richard:Hey Bill you owe me twenty bucks. And so does everyone else in the pot!!
Bill: Damnit, I coulda sworn it would have been around Thanksgiving instead.
Rob: I hate it when Rich is right, he’s always such a prick about it.
Richard: *runs outside shirtless going Wooooo!*
Rob: … prick.
Richard: “Waitaminute, the Brown kid isn’t the girlfriend? Pay me back, Rob.”
Rob: “No a chance. It still counts.”
They probably heard her the first time she shouted it in Indiana.
Let’s see, Becky’s being super wacky and super out and Joyce is freaking out about it. Cue a bunch of people criticizing Becky and calling her behavior awful. Like clockwork.
Look forward to the second round which will be the perennial Becky haters using this as a springboard to go on a major classist or homophobic rant about how Becky is awful and ungrateful and wasted $20s and so forth.
I believe I have established in previous comment threads (and again, above) that my objections, at least, have – to the best of my knowledge and belief – nothing to do with those things, and are for other, personal reasons.
Which is totes fair and this isn’t at all directed as a passive-aggressive dig at you or anything, my comment is mostly about just how predictable these overall patterns are.
Hell, those in the Patreon feed can confirm I predicted this outcome yesterday.
I don’t know why I’m even surprised by it anymore, but somehow I still was.
*hugs*
Joyce: We have to be as quiet as possible.
Becky: *smiles*
Joyce: Becky NO
Becky: *pulls out megaphone* BECKY YES
Jocelyn: Why not Becky Maybe?
Comic Reactions:
Panel 1, part 1: Surrrrree Joyce, we believe you. *wink*
Panel 1, part 2: “Home bittersweet home”. Since Becky’s going to keep up her facade by wacking it up so hard she won’t slip into tears for a bit, I think it’s critical to focus on this little bit.
This homecoming must represent so much to her. It’s the home she’ll never have again. More than that, in suburbia, the home is the outward symbol of the ideal family, the happy illusion. And here, it’s the reminder that that illusion is broken and will never come again. She will never again enter this home. She’ll never again say hi to her dad without it being choked with all the betrayal his attack meant. She’s already had to say goodbye to her mom (and it might not even have been that long ago, relatively speaking).
It is also the cage of her emotional abuse, being under the fanatical control of a man who thought guarding and enforcing her “spiritual purity” was the very thing defining his masculinity. A place of denial. A place where she was carefully taught to hate the very thing she was. A place she may have been dragged back to and abused at. A place less than a week ago she couldn’t have wanted to see less.
This trip would be brutal for anyone, but for someone of her specific background this is broken glass shards rubbing into skin.
And here she copes by cracking some jokes. Keep it light and maybe no one will notice her heart breaking. The emotion in her voice. Keep it light, keep it silly, keep it quick, and maybe she won’t collapse into a mess. Keep it light, or the fears of abandonment from not only her family could come true. Not in actual fact, but definitely in her fear.
And sadly, too many will stop at her mask and assume this isn’t ripping her apart. It’s the tragedy of Becky in no uncertain terms. But it’s also what’s keeping her going right now. And getting her through this.
Panel 1, part 3: I love home-ophobic! And it’s a nice dig at what Toedad, his idea of family, and her home represents. A place, a family, a community so hateful of the very idea of queer folk, that her dad felt morally right literally hunting her across the state in order to disappear her to an abuse camp.
Where shitheads like Carol cheer that action and hope it was successful. Where fuckwaffles like John feel that would have been the “proper” end for her and refuse to even acknowledge her humanity.
And I get that because I’ve been there. The moment where family ceases to be a family and just be a grave stone marker to the homophobia or transphobia that it came to represent.
Becky, Becky, lovely, Becky trying so hard to hide her feelings under industry level goof. No mystery why she and Walky hit off so well.
Yup, this is a very scary place for her, but it is also the only place she has called home and not been abducted from. Bitter sweet indeed.
Becky just broke the hearts of all her lesbian neighbors who thought she was still single.
Poor girls. They had their chance and they blew it.
If they liked it, they should have put a promise ring on it.
Shush, Becky. You’ll wake up the dogs.
Comic Reactions Part 2:
Panel 2: Joyce is adorable when she gets super panicky about things because she really really sucks at doing the low-key thing.
Like, it’s adorable, but she’s been a good two-shoes “good girl” all her life, never having to hide her secret self, because up until college, she never really had the life experiences and interactions necessary to question the teachings she was raised with.
I mean, Becky and Jocelyne are used to sneaking and hiding things. Of having their insides be at war with what is taught. But Joyce? She’s cis and straight and while she is full of such boundless amazing love and empathy, that’s had to come by hearing the stories of others and experiencing things rather than having the disconnect from her religion come from what she fundamentally IS.
And so, when wacky hijinks are afoot or rules need to be broken, Joyce freaks out about keeping things quiet and secret to the point where she’s unintentionally sabotaging the effort. Like here or in Panel 3 where she’s panicking so much she’s ignoring what they really need to do and what Jocelyne and Becky were planning to do which is just getting to work getting this done.
But even though it’s counter to success, it’s still so quintessentially Joyce. Of course she freaks out at the idea of breaking rules or laws. Of course, she assumes that her drawing dicks would lead to a life of crime and that breaking one maybe law equals a life of crime. That’s what she was taught. That it was one puff of marijuana or one naughty touch and then you’d be knocking over liquor stores and crying out “hail Satan”.
Which is why she makes a nice contrast with Becky, because Becky is wacky as a reflex, but she’s also made her peace much more thoroughly with the notion that this authoritarian and inflexible morality they were raised with is complete bullshit. To her and to Jocelyne, sometimes a rule or a law needs to be broken, because that’s the only way to survive.
And it’s touches like that that really hammer home the most major separation between them right now. Joyce has a home, albeit one that is rocky and might be taken from her if her mom gets her way. But Becky is homeless and even with the lovely and much appreciated support of friends, has had to make the moral compromises necessary to survive as a homeless person in America.
Panel 3: And here we see one of Joyce’s less endearing habits.
Like, I know these types of moments rile up the comment section something fierce, because we all love Joyce (because Joyce is awesome sauce and let none of us forget it), but she has a habit of trying to regain her sense of control when things are leading her down the road of a panic attack by trying to enforce codes of behavior for others.
And with Becky this usually manifests itself with “Joyce gets freaked out” and then “Joyce orders Becky to be low-key in some way” even though she’s never that much out of line before the Joyce yanks her aside and tells her to keep cool.
And it’s understandable. This is Joyce trying to get a handle on her own fears. She’s mostly telling herself these things but Becky makes a good force to internalize.
It’s like her reaction to Becky bumping into the RA outside, freaking out on her about the need to hide Becky better because Joyce knew she herself was doing a poor job of remaining cool and calm and deflecting authority. In fact, in most every situation where she’s done this, Becky has not really needed it nor has Becky been the main risk to her situation.
I mean, let’s be frank, Becky is pretty cool under pressure and has a lifetime of pulling shit on an authority figure more paranoid than literally any other character in this comic. She’s a master at hiding her true feelings and at deflecting direct questions and especially at play-acting a sort of normal.
It’s Joyce who has no idea what’s going on here and is thus being more of the sort of thing that would have neighbors investigating and possibly calling the police over.
But of course she would. Joyce is a good girl, stretching herself way outside her comfort zone after a lifetime of believing that disobeying rules was a straight ticket to Hell. But it’s probably also why Becky tends to ignore these moments when they don’t hit personally, because Becky understands this about Joyce and knows she needs to freak out to resettle after being yanked from her original comfort zone.
Joyce kinda IS confirmed right in her core believes, isn’t she?
– Everything is solved by falling in love. (corroboration: Becky and Dina).
– Crimes escalate (corroboration: Dingdongs -> punchings -> Grand Larcency)
– Walky is a poophead (corroboration: Walky)
True!
All you need is love.
I’m sorry but at panel three all I can imagine is Joyce speaking like Elmer Fudd: “Be vewy quiet. We’e bweaking and entewing.”
Hmm, Joyce’s last line seems familiar. Now where have I seen that before…
Comic Reactions Part 3:
Panel 4: And Joyce’s paranoia about this goes off the charts because this is WAAAAAAY outside her comfort zone. I mean, actually breaking not just a parent rule or a church order, but an actual legal law (technically)?
Hell, she can already feel the eyes of God and her parents staring down disapprovingly at her and she is freaking the fuck out of something that’s unlikely to really occur unless Becky’s neighbors include some Mary style curtain-twitchers (which to be fair is a fair assessment, but then they were already fucked when they were young people walking and talking, so Joyce’s panic is still not likely to do much even if followed by Becky).
Also, oh Joyce that is a dangerous thing to insist to Becky cause…
Panel 5: Oh Becky, proud and fearless. Never change.
Also, I love the callback to her coming out to Joyce’s friends and the appellation. Because that is so Becky. She’s a lesbian, but more importantly to her, she’s got a girlfriend. She’s found someone who likes her back in the same way, who bit her fuckhead of a father for her, who literally fought for her and who’s been the only one besides Joyce to see her in her crying mess state.
And it’s such a defiant fuck you to all this neighborhood and house represent.
If this is a home of repression and learning to hate herself, Becky will loudly declare that which makes it impossible for her to live her. Becky will take pride in it. Becky will not fear the backlash that could provoke.
This house, this community, this flavor of her religion don’t control her anymore in the way that it still has its tendrils wrapped around Joyce’s throat.
And I look forward to the day that Joyce can take as much pride in her sexuality and her identity as Becky here.
All this!!!!
This is such a Becky moment, and it is such a triumph.
Becky YES!!!!!
Joyce and Becky’s entire relationship since Becky came out
“Becky, no!”
“BECKY YES!!!”
+1
I’m willing to bet there was quite a bit of that going on before she came out as well.
i really like the lighting in this comic. it’s very nice
Agreed.
Some might say stealing your own property is a victimless crime, but realize, that’s the reason why OJ Simpson is in prison right now.
OJ Simpson led a group of armed men into breaking into a Las Vegas Hotel room to steal sports memorabilia that he claimed had been stolen from him. Bit of a difference.
Classic Becky.
Like the neigbours have talked about anything ELSE the last week.
Heh. Very true. Even if they are fellow travelers of Toedad, this has probably been topic one of the local prayer circles.
Joyce is actually 1/8th Muppet on her mom’s side.
I think the smart money’s on either Swedish Chef or Gonzo.
I like the running gag of Becky not being told about the DingDong incident.
Yup, it’s joined the pantheon of Daisy thirsting for a girlfriend and FAAAAAAAACE. As it should.
I was going to say that I wished that Becky could figure out that there is a time and a place for everything because there really are times when it is smarter to be silent.
Joyce, it’s a house. If you’re all nervous and look like you’re sneaking in, then people will think you’re sneaking in and call the cops. Becky… I’d facepalm, but you’ve established that if there’s an option where you can call attention to yourself and the fact that you’re a lesbian, then context be damned, you’re gonna shout it out loud. Really, the big way we can tell you’re a dumbing of age character and not a shortpacked one is that you don’t have an “I’m a lesbian” marching band.
Yet.
This. Joyce has got no chill.
Also I want an “I’m a lesbian” marching band really bad now.
I REALLY want Becky to have a “I’m a lesbian” marching band.
I was going to make a joke here, but now I’m unsure if it would have been taken the right way. Instead, I’ll just state it would be entertaining to see one going down the street right now.
I’m having trouble seeing Becky as a teen anymore, she just looks so grown-up confident. I can see her with the full bevy of adult things- job in which she’s steadily climbing uthe promotions ladder, or maybe her own business, maybe a family or a favoured niece or just really any possible live set some ten years after graduation. Look at her. She is too good for the struggles and drama of college-agedness
If you told Becky that she would protest loudly.
“Noooo, I’m not adult, I’m just a goofing goofball that goofs a lot.”
on goofs.
Commencing Virtuous Mission.
BECKY YES!!!
If you point a gun at someone, you’ll have to be prepared to fire it. I mused on that as we came closer to the house.
It was the bad part of town (all parts of the town was bad, but even filth comes in layers, as any half decent coprolitologist can tell you). Not a soul to be seen, and at the moment none of the many inhabitants of this charmy neighbourhood that seemed to lack one. But you just knew that they were watching us behind the curtains.
The client tried to keep it light but couldn’t quite hide the apprehension as we drew closer. I didn’t blame her. There was fresh blood on the ground, and after the kill is made there will always be scavengers. Last time she was here was together with the man with the gun.
The gun, yes. I could se my muscles getting jittery. I had had my misgivings about her in the past, but at her core she was pure iron. There are those among us that are govern by their flight and fight instinct – and this one was not fleeing. There was a story there, about a gun… Bringing her here was less pointing a gun and more throwing a grenade, but so be it. There are times for subtility but I was not in the mood for subtle.
I was in the mood to kick some ass.
My name is Jocelyne and I am a liar. Some call it writer, but I knew who I am. Very few people do.
eeeeeeeeeeeeee
Five points to Bagge for the use of “coprolitologist”.
Although I think that is a term that Dina might also know.
0.0 You’re continuing the Jocelyne noir story?
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! 😀
I have WAY too much fun not to 🙂
Nice. 🙂
Bringing a lesbian to a knife fight?
Joyce is actually correct. You’d be very surprised at how far (and how clearly) voices travel at night when there is little to no other ambient sounds around. At, say, 9pm or later at night, if my neighbours are having a conversation in front of their house, I can hear every single word from my room (which is at the front of the house opposite) if I have the window open.
I do not particularly care for Becky.
She’s swinging between a pendulum for me. I get that she acts up when she freaks out, but it’s still something she needs to learn to harness rather than explode.
Like Jocelyne said to Joyce, she shouldn’t compromise her values, but she needs to be more tactical at times.
For me personally she’s in the ‘middle’ category – she does okay to drive the plot, but attention-hoggers like Becky tend to exhaust me, so after a few strips with her I’m ready to move on.
why do you hate freedom
For real though, I do get why people dislike Becky, and something I’ve come to realize is that Becky has surface similarities to a lot of other characters I just rabidly dislike in other webcomics. Becky does kind of come off as the Wacky Lesbian character archetype, in that she has a really loud, bombastic presence, a nontraditional haircut, pretty much everyone likes her as soon as they meet her, and she immediately landed with a cute dinosaur girlfriend.
But what makes her work for me is that context. We’ve seen that a lot of her personality is a defense mechanism. She deals with stress by acting like it doesn’t exist and repeatedly throwing sass and flippancy at it because admitting that she’s actually in pain is something she can’t do. Her repeatedly yelling of how super gay she is boils down to the fact that her identity is the only thing she has left, so she needs to take power in it. And it’s not like Becky just has everything roll off her back; we’ve seen her quietly break down as long as she could do it out of Joyce’s sight, like where she just bluntly admitted to Dina that she was sick of having her life uprooted because of her butthole dad.
Like, I’m not trying to Beckysplain away dislike of her, or trying to imply that UGH YOU JUST DONT GET IT. I kind of have the same thing with Ruth, where even though there’s lots of context that shapes her character and lots of people have written at length extolling about how she’s an interesting and complex character, I still mostly just want to hit her in the face with a shovel.
(forgot to add this part)
Also unlike a lot of other terrible Magic Sex Pixie Queer characters, it’s not like everyone just uproariously laughs at Becky’s occasional dickbag behaviour; Billie sticks up for her because of her situation but has mostly avoided her since Becky told her bisexuality didn’t exist, Danny called her obnoxious, Walky said he wanted to punch her in the face for being a jerk to Dorothy, her “firing” Ethan was played as a massive overstepping of boundaries on her part where she became hugely apologetic when she realized that they actually did break up and assumed it was her fault, and even Jocelyne said that her Nazi joke was stupid. She reminds a lot of Shortpacked!Robin in that regard, in that she tried to go Manic Pixie Dream Girl for Ethan and Amber and was constantly rewarded with things she didn’t deserve, but that was part of the joke and everyone mostly had a grudging tolerance for her that was eventually dragged into friendship. In another series Becky would be constantly rewarded for her sheer existence, but here she’s an actual character.
I really like this whole analysis.
I also think it’s interesting the surface connections to Manic Pixie Dream Lesbian style characters and how that connection can be frustrating for people. And especially that idea of her “constantly earning things she doesn’t deserve”, because it reminds me of how Becky is such a thorough deconstruction of that notion.
Becky doesn’t “constantly earn things” like those other characters. She mostly just takes it on the chin with occasionally a big win to help her out of taking it on the chin that she takes with tons of gratitude.
And it fits how the “Manic Pixie Dream Lesbian” would work in life, how she works in life. Mentally ill, homeless, with nothing left but her pride and what few connections she could retain. And I like the contrast with Robin who was a Manic Pixie Dream Bisexual, because Robin always failed upwards and got things she didn’t deserve, and Becky fails downwards and gets things she didn’t deserve, but not in the same way.
Cause Becky didn’t deserve being thrown out of her school and home for kissing a girl. Didn’t deserve to be homeless for being gay and refusing to change. Didn’t deserve to be hunted at gunpoint across the state because she refused to “respect” her dad’s authority over her life and soul. Didn’t deserve to feel like an imposition to everyone she loves simply because she directly relies on their compassion to survive. Doesn’t deserve to have to break into her dad’s old house and all the awful memories it contains, because she’s working so hard to make a new life for herself and this is the piece that could make it possible.
And when she gets a win, it’s often well-earned. Like, Dina kissed her out of the blue and said, hmm, maybe, but Becky is also a good girlfriend and has shown an immense amount of not just support and acceptance, but downright celebration of her girlfriend and her girlfriend’s quirks. It’s not really a Rinnie from Blaster Nation situation or pre-out SP! Robin with Leslie situation. It’s a really adorable healthy and mutual relationship.
But she hates all that she’s lost and the feeling that she’s a mess. So she pretends to be the Manic Pixie Dream Lesbian instead. Wacky, incorrigible, silly, immature. And maybe even getting some wins that aren’t just not dying or not ending up on the street.
Yeah, this. DoA doesn’t reward Becky for existing, but it doesn’t run in the opposite direction where she needs to be contrite to deserve a modicum of happiness. She has a lot of shit on her plate and needs help, but her receiving that help is never played off as something she needs to earn for being too poor and too gay. She’s surrounded by people who love and support her because it’s just something they’re doing for somebody they care for.
I feel that people can come at Becky from the perspective of “I hate characters like this and Becky fits that mold” sometimes, like how a lot of my dislike for Ruth stems from me seeing way too many series where abusive characters are revealed to have sad backstories and then their victims instantly forgive them, so Ruth kind of automatically has a bunch of hurdles to jump over for me so I can get over that initial uneasiness with her character, or how I had a lot of apprehension over Danny and Amber’s break up and where Danny/Ethan would go because I’ve seen too many “queer dude leaves evil girlfriend and finds true happiness in arms of the first man he sees” stuff only for Willis to knock it out of the park with that amazing bit they just had together.
Well said, thank you.
See, I’d compare her more to Walkyverse Walky, someone who is desperately wacky and loud in order to always be the center of attention. I hated him, too. Hell, I work with a guy like that, every word out of his mouth is like nails on a chalkboard at this point. The fact that Willis loves her and really pushed her early on doesn’t help, either(that damn poll almost got adblocked).
WV!Walky wasn’t trying to be the center of attention. He acted like a wacky goofball because he mostly was, he was scared of responsibility, and also he was a powder keg of frightening unstoppable rage.
As for whether Becky was pushed, well, yeah kinda? She kind of had to be, since she was an almost entirely new character dropped into a years-long series as a current and important main character, unlike, say, Dina or Carla who’ve just kind of hung around in the background before starting to gradually rise to prominence, whereas Becky kind of needed to immediately be in the spotlight. That ain’t a bad thing for me since I totes luv Becky, but I can see why people who don’t like her as much (and are also wrong and should be punished for their hubris) wouldn’t feel the same.
Your mouth says no but your fanart says yes
I just portray her how I would if I was writing her. In the same way I like Sakura Haruno in theory but think Kishimoto’s writing is the reason she ended up so awful. I mean every character in his series suffers from awful writing but her especially.
Ah, fellow disillusioned Sakura fan
So many smut fics I never completed…
(None of the Sakura smut does much for me because it’s rarely the kind of lewd that I like. If I’m getting smut of a girl with canonical super strength, I need some hard femdom going on.) But that’s neither here nor there.
Same here. There was very little yuri and what there was tended to either hyper-vanilla or fucking weird and badly written.
They’re gonna think Joyce is the girlfriend, aren’t they ?
That can’t be. Joyce wanted to keep sleeping with her but Becky needed her space.
I4m talking about the neighbours, who lacks our context
Bloody hell, Becky, if you’re just going to sabotage things just stay back while Joyce and Jocelyn recover your things.
And that’s how a natural 1 on a stealth check looks like.
When you have a giant orange beacon on your head, may as well own that natural 1.
Were back to Joice! Finally!
There is options to get a new social security card. I remember calling whoever and being instructed to send a hand written letter asking some office to go do a record search for my name and enclose the letter with $100 something cash.
There are options, they take a lot of time when you don’t have a car or any records or proof of who you are and you have an antagonistic parent. And they all take money she doesn’t have right now*. Often a lot of money when you add it all up.
There was a social worker who worked with homeless queer youth a bit ago who mentioned that this process for them can take upwards of a year and that’s with an organization that knows what it’s doing being with them every step of the way and helping out. Becky isn’t in a position where she can wait that long to restart her life.
*Changing my name and pronoun marker and getting that swapped over with new cards and all that has cost over a thousand dollars and has taken several years of my life to accomplish. While not as extensive, I imagine getting all your documents when you have no real means of proving who you are is at very least half as much hassle as that.
OK, first of all, where is Becky getting those one hundred dollars from? She does not have one hundred dollars on hand, and she’s not going to ask anyone for it either (and most of those she knows won’t have it on hand either, I reckon. I mean, Billie does, but they’re not exactly “ask for a hundred dollars” kind of close), because she’s feeling guilty enough about living on others already, and she wants to get a job to stop just that. So, she needs a job to get that money, but to get a job she needs an SSC, and to get that SSC, she needs money.
Yeah, nice little catch-22 to screw over people simply for being poor. Only in America! (OK, not really only in America, but as a Norwegian living in USA, your whole system of identification is, to say the least, bloody baffling.)
Secondly, and this is also important: Becky has little to no idea about her options. She was home-schooled all the way up to a Christian college, and her father kept all her important stuff, including birth certificates, SSCs, and so on. He never taught her to memorise her number, or anything else that somehow could inadvertently teach her to be independent. Heck, she did not even know there was a card. She was to become an obedient little housewife, getting educated only so she could be homeschooling the kids, end of story. She does not understand how to use internet, her idea of a forbidden movie is “Frozen”…. Yeah, “isolated” doesn’t even begin to describe it. There are prisoners with a better grasp of the outside world* than Becky.
*Which incidentally, I think is a good idea, if they are to have a chance at getting back into society and not fall back into more crime when they get out of jail.
YEAH, WE HEARD YOU THE FIRST TIME!
But, the first time, I was at UI…
YEAH YOU WERE THAT LOUD
Way to go all “with catlike tread”, Becky.
Everyone: Becky no!
Becky: Becky YES.
That’s it, that’s Becky 😀
Is it wrong that reminds me of the cause of the problems with the Greek Pantheon?
“Why do we have to sacrifice people?”
“Because the gods demand so, duh.”
Not what I was thinking, StClair got the right of it, though I was picturing the tumblr blog post variant.
yup, there’s a net.famous pie graph about that (with slices for “hubris”, etc, but the largest one by far is “Zeus couldn’t keep it in his pants”).
there’s a similar graphic for the Norse pantheon, though it’s in flowchart form (with all arrows leading to “Loki did it”).
Not many gods would fuck a horse to win a bet. Maybe Zeus, but he would probably call that Tuesday.
I’d say she didn’t so much leave the closet as much as she nuked it from orbit, but by this point she’s just throwing grenades into a giant smoking crater. But seriously it’s her house, it isn’t so much breaking and entering as it’s a case of a lost key.
I’m still confused why they are considering this burglary since it’s still Becky’s legal residence and it’s full of her possessions.
Internalized generalized guilt.
Okay, so here’s the mentality I grew up with in a conservative christian small town: If your parents payed for it, even if they “gave” it to you, it’s still theirs. If you payed for it but it’s at your parents’ house and they use it, it’s theirs. If it’s in your parents’ house (even temporarily) and you’re not, it’s theirs. If the community feels you shouldn’t have it, it’s not yours.
If the neighbors support Toedad’s stance and blames Becky for his incarceration, they’re going to call the police on her for taking what they see as Toedad’s possessions, which he has the “right” to deny her, as he bought all of it. And if the local police agree with the neighbors, she can still get locked up in the county jail for the night. Because even though it’s her legal residence, it’s /Toedad’s/ house, and you can bet he doesn’t want her there. And in small town anywhere, the local police is as high up as you can go, so the exact legality of anything only matters as far as the local police think it should matter.
All of this.
She also has no key. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/personal/
Okay, but. Dude is in *prison*. I’m pretty sure that legally speaking, it’s Becky’s right to do what she wants with her things, as an adult over the age of 18.
True, but keep in mind ObiKemnebi’s comments above, and remember that there are some (not all) police (and judges, and other lrgal authorities) who unfortunately don’t have the law as their first priority.
I really, really want to see an arc when Joyce explains the ‘Ding-Dong Bandit’ thing to Becky. Becky’s reaction to the fact that pure, clean and upstanding Joyce could pull a stunt like that will likely be comedy gold!
“My old house! I’ll break into it! NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW!”
U N H A N D H E R, D A N B A C K S L I D E
i cant marry a comment but i want to
I’m fairly sure if Becky is over 18 and the house is still in Toe Dad’s name, he could bring charges against them for trespassing.
He can’t do anything from prison dude
Becky is loud and proud
Oh no Becky broke Joyce again.
I find Becky tiring. I still love Mike though, so it’s entirely possible I’m not the intended audience for her outbursts.
The only thing I can think of when I see Joyce’s expression….is this
Joyce still makes the best faces ever.