Well, it’s like all modern games: anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering take up the bulk of the extra processing. Turn those off and all of a sudden you get a free double-digit increase in frames per second. In TotalBiscuit’s case, he turned off anti-aliasing, but decided to keep anisotropic filtering, because, well it’s fucking rad. He also mentioned turning off ambient occlusion helped, as well as turning off the action cam as it was buggy.
Windowed Mode Helped for me. Also turning off every dang option graphically.
I also had Steam verify the local content. Two files were corrected and now it runs better. The ayys have been dodging better and shooting better as well though. 🙁
hmm, it’s windowed (I have a 5:4 main monitor and it literally will not display otherwise), everything is turned all to lowest… .ini settings look like the next thing to try
keeping in mind that Transistor also ran like shit for me until I finally upgraded my graphics card, which solved like 99.99% of my problems across all Steam games
Apparently that’s a common problem. This video has a guy talk about the technical issues with the game, and what settings he changed to get a decent framerate going.
I thought it was obvious already that her mom is horrible. 😐 The fact that Hank is apparently better than her but still under her thumb concerns me, however. :/
Yeah, I get that vibe too. He just goes with what she says.
My in-laws are that way. You can talk to my father-in-law about something or ask a favor, and he will be all for it and agree. Then he tells my mother-in-law about it later. If she disapproves even a little, it’s not happening and he will back out. No matter what he feels or thinks about the matter.
He’s done it for so long that he has no idea he does it at all.
I’m not seeing it. He’s taken the lead in every scene they’ve shared together, and he clearly led the way when he accepted Joyce’s friendship with Dorothy. Even earlier when he called to notify her that Becky was coming, I get the distinct impression that he’s handling her to head off drama.
I realize he’s being cool right now, and she was being terrible last time we saw her, but that doesn’t mean that the times he wasn’t cool that he was just caving to her. They presented a unified front against Dotty at first because they were in -agreement-, and when he changed his mind, she didn’t say a thing about it. I haven’t seen anything to indicate that he’s “under her thumb”. She’s just his wife.
I think you guys might be thinking of Danny’s parents. Or maybe Walky’s.
I suspect he’s quite a bit like Joyce – Has some horrible ideas, but cares about people more and thus is willing to change or at least make exceptions.
And attacking his little girl is way over the line, even if she is all grown up.
I wonder if Hank is not so much “under her thumb” as the peacemaker type. You know, the guy who doesn’t want a huge fight, and just wants his family together.
I mean, when did he back down? When Joyce got upset. And when he did so, his wife did not dare defy him.
What I suspect will happen is that things will be tense, but no outright problems. Just maybe passive aggressiveness by Joyce’s mom while Joyce’s dad tries to keep it happy.
But, of course, something will happen, and she’ll break. She’ll be unable to control herself. Maybe Jocelyne coming out, maybe Becky getting carried away, I don’t know.
I always saw it as the other way around.
When the Browns met Dorothy, he was the one who left, and the one who called out Joyce’s “attitude”. When they re-met her at the fountain and Joyce stood up to them, he basically went, “okay then”. Carol, on the other hand, looked VERY unhappy with him basically giving Joyce permission to keep hanging out with Dorothy- which she had literally JUST told Joyce not to do.
I really got the impression that Carol was far more willing to be unpleasant, whereas Hank wants more to be nicer, even when walking away from someone who just wanted to talk to them. He has been less hostile, less hateful, and less abrasive. (Not perfect, but less so than Carol.) But it felt to me that as soon as they disagreed, Carol immediately fell silent and let Hank call the shots- despite appearing extremely unhappy about what he was saying.
That doesn’t mean that she won’t pull out the hatred and bigotry. She seems good at that, and even if she doesn’t fight Hank on letting Becky stay with them she can still be unpleasant without undermining him.
This. Plus with Joyce’s beliefs about marriage and how the father “should be” compared to the mother made me think of Joyce’s mom as under Joyce’s dad’s thumb.
My grandparents were like that when my granddad was still alive – he could do anything he liked (which was mostly gardening) but if he did anything that upset or annoyed my granny, she would tell him to stop and he would.
Her most irritating characteristic was that she required everyone – even close family – to make appointments to go visit them. She could not stand anybody ever just showing up and saying “Hey gran, we were just passing and thought we’d drop in to see you!”… :/
This kind of relationship makes a a lot of sense to me. Generally speaking, I don’t give a fuck. I just want everyone to be happy. I’ll do my thing and if it bothers you, let me know and I’ll stop.
However, I promise there was stuff he cared about and they fought about it. This wasn’t about Grandpa rolling over; this was about Grandpa not giving a shit.
I dunno. In all their appearances, she’s defaulted to him and let him lead for the big decision moment and that community is all about the woman being submissive to the man and taking his lead. So it could be as simple as he’s grown up a little and has decided to trust his daughter more and feels more relaxed to admit things like how he likes how she decked out a church “friend”.
Now, by the same token, the mom in those communities is expected to be the moral compass of the family, keeping everyone godly so that her husband doesn’t need to “correct” her. So, there may be some contention there as she views this all as her daughter and husband backsliding out of the church and it is now her role to return all to godliness.
Ephesians 5, as Joyce quoted a few strips back, which is surely not a coincidence.
It’s an interesting little religious trap, since Carol must reject the lesbian, but can’t defy her husband. So, um yay? Religious misogyny working on the good side for once?
Though, even without open defiance, she can do an awful lot to show Becky she’s not welcome and to go after Joyce for supporting her.
Probably a safe bet, but he was likely also exposed to sides of Ross that Joyce never had to see. I’m thinking his dislike of the man predates the incident.
Consider that when Becky was pulled out of school, and her roommate got out with nothing worse than a warning, whereas Becky was taken away to be disciplined as a bad influence, like she was the one the most at fault (as we know, there was no actual fault, but I mean subjectively). This is the kind of behaviour that would be clearly visible to a family (the Browns) when their child is a close friend with a child with a father with that behaviour. Acquainted families tend to know things about each other’s habits fairly well, although by no means to all acquainted families work this way. I’m just saying that toedad is probably a well-known strict, overzealous type.
Yeah – Ross probably showed those sides willingly and unashamedly to Hank, secure in his own hideous worldview and the assumption that a Good White Christian Man would find no fault in his views or behavior.
Think back to the horrifying things he said to Becky – and then imagine what kinds of things he’d say when there weren’t any women around.
Agreed. Especially if bible study at their church is separated by gender.
It wouldn’t be surprising at all if Hank has long, long disliked Toedad because he disapproves of the way Ross parented Becky, because of things Ross has said to Hank at church or other social gatherings when children and/or women were out of earshot, because of him threatening Joyce’s life, and also because of the way he reacted to Becky’s coming out (well, forcing out.).
I really can’t imagine that many people in the world actually *like* Ross from what we’ve seen and heard of him.
I don’t like the fundie philosophy or world view. I have reasons based strongly in life experience to treat people who espouse fundamentalism with wary suspicion as my default approach to them.
That said, to the credit of fundies, even the fundiest of fundies I’ve met, as a general rule, would dislike Ross at least and openly condemn him if not move to have him excluded from their church at most. Because did Jesus not say let he who is without sin etc etc. That someone believes in a worldview I find vile does not mean they themselves are an evil or terrible person. Most fundies I’ve met are more on the Joyce/Hank end of the spectrum rather than the Carol/Toedad/Mary end. Downside is that the Fundie worldview is very authoritarian, so if they have a Carol/Toedad/Mary type as their pastor, they might be terrible to you, even though they feel bad about it, just because that’s what they’re taught is the right thing to do (yes, this is exactly why I view fundies with a wary suspicion as my default – I went to a school that had a lot of fundies, and the folks who bullied me hardest for bisexuality and atheism – and who told met that my asthma and autism were God’s condemnation for my sinfulness – were fundies, and most of them were doing it because their pastor had them convinced it was the right thing to do. There were a couple Mary’s in the group, but most were more on the Joyce/Hank end of the spectrum and after they moved away for a bit and got exposed to a more diverse environment, they realized how shitty they’d been and a lot of them have since apologized to me).
I’ve had similar experiences.
As a kid and teen I had a lot of friends that were Deaf, and because of that I also had a lot of friends that didn’t quite fit in in other ways. I didn’t fit in either, but in away that the fundies left alone. Many of my friends weren’t so lucky. One friend told me how there’d be a few times that people, total strangers, had done things like lay hands on her and try to exorcise the demon in her that was causing her deafness. Or that strangers had seen her and her mom signing and would ask her mom what sin she committed that was so egregious that it would cause her daughter to be cursed with deafness.
Now I’m physically disabled and run in to similar encounters. People telling me that if I had more faith I’d be cured and things like that. Because apparently God is sadistic enough to curse people with genetic disorders that cause people constant pain and causes them to gradually lose their balance and mobility just because they questioned things a little. Sounds like a great guy, totally worthy of adoration and worship, huh?
I’m now fully atheist, but it took a long time to get here. Being around that mindset growing up (much of my family is very fundamentalist) screwed with me for a long time. In my 20s I still believed in a God, but didn’t think he sat about messing with people’s lives all the time. I guess I was semi-Deist?
Still, when I started having trouble with infertility and depression caused by said infertility, I started questioning if I was wrong and if God really *was* punishing me.
Once I got better, I realized that that was a pretty fucked up concept to force on a kid so deeply that they would agonize over ever mistake they ever made, wondering if that was the cause of things like endometriosis or a hormone imbalance well in to adulthood.
I’m so glad my kid won’t have to deal with that shit.
I’ve got an ongoing headcanon that Becky’s mom was good at subtle manipulation, so she kept Ross’s worst features under control. Then when she died he had to deal with grief and suddenly take over parenting when he knew nothing about it. And proceeded to consistently make the wrong choices.
This makes a lot of sense. A husband suddenly having to be a parent is very similar to someone winning a large sum of money in a lottery. Most of them are ill-equipped to deal with the new situation and, more often than not, are broke or dead a few years later.
Prolly not, cause he’s also just an unpleasant person. Even if you agreed with his racism, sexism, etc…, he doesn’t seem the type to smile all that much or at least show that sort of “vulnerability” in public and is very big on presenting the big bad alpha daddy image everywhere, which must be exhausting for all his “friends”. Like, even if you agree that women are inferior and gays are recruiting your kids, you don’t want to hear a lecture about it all the time. Plus, he seems way more conservative than even the usual church crowd so I’m sure there were plenty of moments when Hank or another was internally thinking “hey, now, that’s not okay”.
Plus there were things like how Joyce’s parents talked about the Chick-fil-a protests versus how Ross talked about them. They’re both wrong imo, but to Joyce’s parents it was an event to be able to say their beliefs, versus for Ross it was an event to emotionally hurt people he didn’t like.
Also, don’t forget what we learned about Joyce’s older “brother” (or is it… Sister. Your thought betray you…). Dad here may be more aware of the situation that the rest of the family.
It is “sister”, though if she is deliberately staying in the closet it would be the height of rudeness to contradict her narrative in her closeted setting (in this case, at her parents’ home). In her case, however, I think it gets a little murky. Looking at the preview panels, I think that she is open with at least some of her family (I assume that is Jonathan she is traveling with in the car). It might be possible that the only ones that do not currently know is Carol and Joyce.
It is absolutely “sister” *except when she is passing as male.” In that case, it’s best to use an ungendered word like “sibling” or “sib” if that’s possible.
Dang ol Hank man, talkin’bout learnin humility lettin his little girl grow up man. Bring a dang ol tear to your eye man, some kinda dang ol metaphor let ‘er drive the car just one big ol’, talkin’bout Joyce take the wheel y’know? Tell y’what baby born baby ain’t never done growin’ just growin’ all the time man, dang ol’ Dumbin’ of Age.
Mmh, I’d lay odds at this point that CAROL’S gonna be transphobic, and he’s going to want to get to know his daughter, which will cause a schism between the two of them.
Everyone has so much newfound faith in Hank! It’d take a lot to convince me that Hank isn’t transphobic. Less so, maybe. Perhaps more willing to live and let live and still love his kid. But almost everyone in this society is transphobic to a degree and I really doubt someone like Hank is going to be better.
Yeah, he’s not going to immediately accept Jocelyne*. I do think that he will eventually, but it’s going to take a lot of praying, thinking, talking and listening.
* is that how she spells it? I know there’s an extra ‘e’ on the end, but not sure if I spelled the rest right.
Also, I find that choice of name interesting. At one time Jocelyn/Jocelin/*insert other various spellings* was a very masculine name. It wasn’t until the 20th century, when the name Lynn became more popular and became almost exclusively perceived as feminine, that Jocelyn became a very feminine name along with other -lyn names like Evelyn.
A very apt, meaningful, lovely name for her to chose.
He’s christian, so… by definition, yeah, anti-gay and probably not keen on identifying as anything other than what god handed to you genome-wise.
He seems capable of thinking someone or something is wrong and also realizing that beyond expressing the opinion he has no actual authority on the matter, though, which is fine. It’s all the secular world really asks of religious people, honestly.
I hope that Willis doesn’t make this a “character redeemed for the viewers by giving him anachronistic attitudes or sacrificing his convictions in favor of the audience’s” deal. That’d be kind of a cop-out and make him boring again. A person of genuine faith trying to reconcile with other people that don’t share it without violating scripture’s an actual interesting character, christian-in-name-only is something we’ve already seen a billion times.
“He’s Christian, so by definition anti-gay.” No. There are PLENTY Christians who have absolutely no issue with homosexuality. What made us strongly suspect he might be homophobic was that we know Joyce was raised in a fundamentalist Christian environment.
I’m an atheist myself, but I can’t stand people lumping all Christians (or all people of a certain religion, or all religious people) together like this. 🙂
Also, some of the nicest kids in the GSA I run at my school are Christian. They got really mad when a teacher described the school’s Christian club as “the opposite of Mr. Katzmann’s GSA club.”
Christian, white, male, pentecostal (and close friends with the pastor for ummm since about 2000?), and strongly in support of gay marriage and of the right for folk to choose for themselves who they want to identify as. Hi! I’m the demographic you’re forgetting about, and there’s way more of us than you think. (In fairness: a lot of social discourse over in the US tends to silence that viewpoint, possibly ‘cos if it were heard then silencing LBGT* viewpoints might be cast in a different light, and we can’t have that, now, can we?)
(wait. I’m basically a long-haired single version of Hank at this point, equipped with a feminist-friendly reading list [Walter Kaiser, Katharine Bushnell]. um…)
“A person of genuine faith trying to reconcile with other people that don’t share it without violating scripture’s an actual interesting character.”
Sounds like you wish there was a Joyce in the cast?
The problem is that there is a very loud group of Christians who would define Christianity the way JonasofAtlantis did, though as a positive thing of course.
If you’re not Christian yourself or not in contact with obviously Christian types who are feminist and LGTBQ friendly, it’s very easy to lose track of the fact that it’s actually (LGBTQ(some of whom are Christian) vs subset of Christians) rather than (LGTBQ vs Christians).
Yup. And like any subculture that’s a politics thing as much as a media one—I must vote for someone like me or the Others win!. (If, uh, that’s your gospel, and if your God needs to be in charge to be good, count me out.)
Which is why the Cruzes and Rubios and Falwells of this world scare the crap out of me. In fact, anyone to the right of Carter, come to think. (And why political faith as described always turns out to be a right-wing deal is a queasy question I’m not at all awake enough to want to face.)
I take exception to the notion that homophobia and transphobia is a defining feature of Christianity. That is most certainly not a defining feature and there were a number of Christians, even pastors, that openly support the LGBQT community. Hell, last year when Indiana passed their RFA that allowed for open discrimination of the LGBQT community due to “sincerely held religious beliefs”, one of the first and the loudest protests came from the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), who threatened to cancel an upcoming large conference in Indy if the law did not get repealed (it would have cost the city of Indianapolis about $6M if they did cancel).
For that matter, it is not as though one need to be Christian to be an extreme homophobe. Sure, Christians in Uganda have recently killed gay people in the street, but far more alleged gays have been killed in Muslim regions (punishable by death in many nations). You can get life imprisonment for simply being gay in the Hindu nation of India and the Buddhist nation of Burma. It is not a defining feature of Christianity. It is a feature you find in many people, though they might wrap that hatred in their religion to defend it.
OTOH, it’s reasonable to say that religion is a defining feature of homophobia these days and in the US, that religion is overwhelmingly Christian. And those Christians go to good deal of trouble to make sure they’re identified with their religion, which LGBT-friendly Christians often don’t.
It’s not, but… it’s definitely a defining trait of the particular sect of pre-millennial dispensationalist rapturist Christians that Hank and Carol are a part of. That particular church has viewed gay/trans rights and abortion as the single two biggest battles for a good couple of decades now, so while it is a big stretch that Hank can try and work through his homophobia to accept Becky that he is meeting, having his own daughter turn out to be trans may be a bridge too far for him.
Especially since there are no shortage of families that are very pro-queer-rights that nonetheless balk at the notion of trans acceptance.
Honestly, he probably knows nothing of trans issues other than a few news reports and whatever he’s heard in church. Even if he does come around in the end, finding out will be a huge shock and it’s bound to get ugly. Hell, Joyce is likely to ugly, through ignorance if nothing else.
Even the homophobia would have been too much if he hadn’t had time to pray and think about it. And the earlier experience with Joyce & Dorothy.
There’s anti-gay and there’s anti-gay. It’s possible for a Christian to believe homosexuality is a sin *and* still be, well, Christian, towards a gay person. Granted, the strident haters waving signs and trying to maintain legal discrimination against gay people while spitting condemnations get all the press, but personal discomfort/awkwardness are the extent of many fundamentalist’s reaction to gay people, they still try to be decent towards them.
That said, Hank seems to me to be edging more towards the charismatic / progressive edge of the hardcore Christian belief set where homosexuality is a burden placed upon someone by God for reasons known only to God, rather than a personal choice. We’ll see what happens when they get home, I guess.
(Note — though I know enough of these Christians to know how they think, please do not ascribe the way they think to me personally, because I’m neither of the above. Thank you.)
I mean, all people will given the right (or wrong I guess) subject and time mixed with ignorance. No one is perfect, but some people are less awful than others.
I think this might end up being one of those “Evil triumphs when good people do nothing” type dealies.
We’re seeing that he has pretty decent feelings about everything that’s been going down, but then his silence at the family dinner table will be damning.
He’s already given himself a pretty convenient out. He cedes to Joyce’s wisdom because as a woman Joyce understands these things better than him, but that also means that when Mom starts getting into it with Joyce he can just step back and let the women sort this out among themselves.
In retrospect the reasoning there was a little strained too. The homosexuality debate is pretty unisex in nature, it’s just that the homosexual person in question right now happens to be a woman. That’s a weird way to split things up. Like, if we started talking about Ethan would Hank suddenly have the authority because as a man he understands this better than her?
My impression was that he was using ‘woman’ as “adult”. Not Secret Female Intuition, but Joyce being an adult whose opinion he should listen to, especially on subjects she knows more about, like Becky. (And maybe, in the back of his mind, this changing new world of the future.)
That last panel might be one of those things.
“You have my support” is (hopefully) what he’s trying to say, but it comes with the aftertaste of “your life-or-death situation was exciting for me.”
That’s not how I read it. I take it more as “I’ve wanted to hit that man for years now but never had an appropriate situation for it. I’m so glad my daughter got to do it.”
I know Keenspot sold a Joyce plushie at one point, back in the It’s Walky days.
I’d buy a DoA Joyce for my cat, who loves cuddling stuffed toys, but she beheaded my Deadpool plushie, and I think Joyce has been through enough trauma lately.
Honestly, this is probably part of a running argument he’s having with his wife. It seems like the mother is on the “Toedad’s actions were extreme, but I sympathize with his desire to protect his daughter” side, and Hank is going with “fuck that guy, clearly anything he’s doing is so wrong that we should do the exact opposite”.
Bringing Becky home and explicitly approving of her friendship with Joyce is his way of escalating a passive-aggressive difference of opinion into an actual argument that he feels they need to have. Probably he’s trying to bring Joyce into it to make the point that if they don’t back off a bit they’ll lose their daughter too. And maybe as a sort of backwards idea about Joyce being an adult now and adults not needing to be shielded from parental arguments like children.
It should be noted that his plan is kind of a bad idea, but that’s how the comic works.
Hank strikes me as more of a “I know what I’m *expected* to do, and I have a suspicion what I actually *want* to do is the right thing, but I’ve long since learned to pick my battles, and to not pick them very often, if at all.” Let’s see if that “CHECK BULLS**T” light finally glows red enough to prompt action, or at least speaking up.
“God says I should trust that man and let him have dominion over his household especially since we are brothers in Christ and our children are such good friends, but Lord am I tempted to punch that man. Punch that man in his big fluffy mustache.”
Even more crazy theory. Joyce’s dad is actually Mike from the Shortpacked universe that got sent over here by accident, lost all his memories, and will never know he left his wife and child behind in another universe.
Nah, I choose to believe Mike would retain an essential Mikeness, a Platonic ideal of assholery, even if he lost all his memory and was in another timestream. Joyce kept her basic nature even without remembering.
SPOILER WARNING FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT INTO THE FULL WALKYVERSE:
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Mike’s existential nature does get subverted when he is “under the influence”. And if you look at linkman0596’s comment just above yours, you’ll see that this is exactly what is going on in here. It all makes sense!
She’s indicated that she found Toedad’s motives sympathetic, though she doesn’t approve of the violence itself. It was just a short snippet of a phone conversation though (which was primarily her calling to make sure Joyce was all right, so she’s probably still holding it against the guy on a personal level).
This is obviously something she and Hank are arguing over, probably as a proxy argument for her wanting to react to the fear the incident sparked by trying to helicopter Joyce harder (dictate who her friends are, etc) while Hank wants to react by reassuring himself that his kid is awesome and can handle whatever comes at her.
Probably the direct subject of the argument’s gonna be Becky, because to the mother she’s the immediate cause of the incident that put Joyce in danger, while the father sees her as a victim of the actual offender. Both of them kind of have a point, which means that Joyce’s weekend at home is probably going to be really… loud, and next to impossible to resolve.
“Both of them kind of have a point”. Errr… nah, mate. The immediate cause of the incident was Ross McIntyre, and Carol’s brushing-that-away (which is straight-up victim-blaming-by-proxy; it wasn’t his fault, he was provoked) is just part of why she’s so desperately and completely in the wrong.
The two of them figuring it out… is plausible (can’t wait, it’s gonna be fun), but Hank’s developing-character aside I’m not sure they have the language to process it. Joyce has a healthy amount so having her there is hopefully going to help, but it might come up that she’s developing this thinking thanks to godless heathens like Leslie and Dorothy.
(while I dearly want to see Carol develop and independent and healthy mind, somehow what I really really want to know more about right now is how Hank has become all “Joyce, take the wheel” since their visit. things have changed in this guy.)
Both of them do not have a point. The only reason that Becky was around Joyce for her to be threatened in the first place was that Becky was running from her abusive father and was certain that Joyce was the only one that would not immediately return her to Toedad when she got there. That means that it all was Toedad’s fault. He’s the reason Becky was near Joyce when Ross showed up and pointed a gun at them and he is obviously the reason that a gun was pointed in the first place.
“Bless his soul, but at least he thought he was doing the right thing. Right? I mean, put yourself in his shoes. He’s… he was just worried about his daughter.”
I have to wonder how much of the change we’re seeing in Hank is from hearing her say things like that out loud. And what sort of conversations they’ve had as a result…
I’m beginning to like Mr. Brown more and more.
Which of course means that the train wreck, when it comes, is going to be all the more gruesome and catastrophic.
“Joyce you’ve got to do something about Becky. What she’s doing just isn’t right.” “J-just because she likes girls doesn’t mean what she’s doing isn’t right dad!” “No I mean her snoring, she’s literally just saying the letter Z and it’s starting to worry me.” “Z.” “See?”
When I was a young kid, I learned from comics that you say “Z” when you’re asleep. So whenever I wanted Mom to think I was sleeping, I would close my eyes, lie still on my bed and say “Zzzzz”. I couldn’t understand why she always knew.
Well, since we know that Joyce’s parents are based off of Willis’s, and we know that he has no current relationship with his mother due to her being awful, you can turn that into a virtual certainty I’m afraid 🙁
I wonder if his having kids will change that. I’ve seen some pretty disapproving parents suck it up and make up with their kids to get access to the grandchildren. I’m not predicting, though, because I don’t know the situation with Willis.
The dude is bringing home Joyce’s homeless lesbian friend who was the cause of the asshole who almost shot up the campus showing up, explicitly approving the friendship, and offering to let her stay the weekend.
There’s going to be a fight with his wife because he’s really, really obviously intentionally starting one.
That’s not to say that it’s not a fight they need to have (he obviously feels they do), but dude is instigating hard. There’s barely even any passive in his passive-aggressive there.
The dude is bringing home Joyce’s childhood best friend who’s just been attacked by her father and left homeless. Which is, quite frankly, the only decent thing for him to do.
It would be slightly different if she was a stranger Joyce had met at college, but it’s Becky, who they’ve known for years.
This isn’t passive-aggressive instigation, this being a decent human being.
The weird thing here is that I do think you are both right. Yes, Hank is just being a pretty descent human being because he wants to do the right thing.
But I’m thinking he -also- knows pretty damn well what his wife will say about this even as he’s doing it, and he’s prepared for it, and is already planning some of the things he’s going to say.
That could be why he let Joyce drive, to be honest. Give himself time to think out his arguments, predict hers, figure out how to respond to different scenarios. It’ll certainly be interesting.
what is good depends on the logic behind the actions not nessicarily the actions. After all depending on what is done the only difference between the good and evil might be one pretends to not enjoy what they are doing.
It’s kinda implied that the real problem is Joyce’s mom. She was the one who said Toedad was doing what he thought was right, and it’s been implied she doesn’t get along with one of Joyce’s brothers anymore. Hank was the first to accept Dotty after Joyce stood up to them, while her mother was still less than pleased.
I know from his blog that Willis doesn’t have a good relationship with his mother, I wonder how his relationship is with his father.
There does seem to be a preponderance of aggressive “jerk” female characters compared to male ones… But, then, the cast itself is also weighted more female than male, so is that just statistics? I dunno.
Either way, I’d really like it if Carol was actually a nice person too but, if what you say is true and, as Willis has said, Joyce is an autobiographical character to some extent, I ain’t holding my breath.
I dunno, I don’t think you can really even it out when there’s a qualitative difference in type. You can compare, say, being antisocial with being antisocial, slurs with slurs, assault with assault, but the moment you try comparing being antisocial with assault, you run into trouble.
As the old saying goes, you can fix ten roofs, make a hundred meals, heal a thousand wounds, but if people catch you doing obscene things to just one goat, guess what your nickname’s gonna be.
But, yes. I do vaguely recall Willis mentioning that his dad was proud of him for some accidental lewd joke in an early comic, so maybe he’s chill. Is it weird that the comments section’s hive mind plays detective with the cartoonists’ life?
Hank is proving not to be terrible at all, although with each strip I keep waiting for him to say something dumb. People are complicated, I think that is what I like most about Dumbing of Age
I get the strangest feeling that Hank and Carol have differing opinions on Ross. (As in they almost certainly do, seeing as the second concern of Carol on last storyline was trying to minimize the asshole’s actions)
See, I like this characterization. I mean when we saw the parents come back the first time for that visit, we saw a side of them that nobody was really a fan of. And yet now, we’re seeing another. It’s not exactly contradictory either. Because at the end of the day, they’re about faith. And that’s not a wrong thing to have. Sure, their reaction to not having faith was a bit…wrong. But the father seems to understand. She IS an adult. She’s entitled to live her own life. And she did help them see a bit, that part of having faith is loving everybody.
It can also mean understanding when people have taken that faith too far, much like Becky’s father did.
Man, I did not give Hank enough credit when he first showed up. I thought he was going to say the same shit that Carol did at the end of last storyline, but here he is being all decent and likable and shit.
I mean, he’s probably going to fuck up down the line because who hasn’t fucked up at least a bit in this comic, but for now he is officially Cool in My Book.
Imagine that, a parent finding absolutely no excuses for the person who POINTED a GUN at his DAUGHTER. One would think that that would be EVERY parent’s reaction.
Either that or she really, really didn’t expect him to approve. It’s pretty strongly implied from the way her voice got softer when saying that she punched Toedad. I mean, the flippancy thing could also be right, as well. Joyce could just be saying it softly because she’s reliving the memory, or something.
It’s the same thing as the money from Sarah for swearing. Joyce feels that she behaved badly, albeit under stress and with other mitigating factors. The good Christian thing would be to repent of her wicked ways, be chastised and maybe punished. Instead she’s being rewarded, implicitly encouraged to do more of the same, by someone she would otherwise look to for guidance. What should be a clear-cut case of good and evil is no just blurred, but outright inverted. Her world is being turned upside-down.
I’m also interested in the backstory of what his and Joyce’s relationship has been like through her life. They seem to have a really excellent relationship. Is he like that with all of his kids? Is he just generally more accepting and practical than their mother? Does their mother resent him/them for having a better relationship than she does with them?
The Hank/Carol dynamic is similar to the one my parents have. It’s… complicated.
How it worked for my parents: Both were brought up in authoritarian, abusive households. My father remembers being terrified of his father, to the point that when he got home, all the kids would run and hide, and if his father called one of the kids over, the kid would start crying. Dad vowed he would never be the one the kids are terrified of, and instead opted to let most everything go (even though it still bugged him that us kids were, well, kids, and eventually he’d lose his temper and that made him kind of scary to be around because you never knew when he’d lose it because he’d be laughing and joking one moment and threatening you with violence the next and you didn’t know what set him off).
My mother, on the other hand, internalized a lot more of the authoritarian point of view and wanted the kids to basically be seen and not heard unless she wanted to trot us out like show ponies (by which I mean: any talent we had would be used to show off to neighbours and you’d better not fumble anything or what have you. Kind of hard to explain if you weren’t there but the underlying feeling of love being conditional on being exceptional enough to impress the neighbours and win at the keeping up with the Joneses thing was pretty strong). She didn’t want kids, she wanted little robot dolls that she could dress up and show off whenever she wanted. When it turned out that her kids had opinions and feelings of our own, she clamped down. The more she clamped down, the more distant/reserved we got. The more distant/reserved we got, the more she clamped down. This was especially true for me as she was always trying to make me into a “real girl” and enlist the aid of my sisters to do so. Annnyway, the other thing was that mom really didn’t approve of Dad’s loosy-goosy facade, and felt that kids need a “strong hand” to guide them. With Dad flat-out refusing to play the authoritarian abuser to the best of his ability (he was abusive, even if he tried very hard not to be), my mother became the authortarian and disciplinarian. Sooo then we had this situation there was one set of rules for Mom and one for Dad and both of them were constantly trying to undermine the other.
I think Hank and Carol have a similar phenomenon going on where Hank sees the flaws in how he was brought up and is trying to aim for a more moderate and easygoing approach (whether or not he’ll succeed where my father failed remains to be seen, but he’s trying at least), but Carol does not, which leads to friction between them.
Mr. Brown is just full of surprises, isn’t he. You go.
I think that Joyce and Becky will survive this trip home just because he has their back. Now, if he can just face Mrs. Brown down, that is.
I can imagine how the conversation with Mrs. Brown will go down exactly.
Joyce:“Mom, there’s something you need to know about college these days.” Mrs. Brown:“As long as people are still having protective sex with with one partner on their wedding night while at the same time excluding the influences of mind-altering drugs in a safe wholesome environment, I’ll be sound as a pound!”
Oh come on. These guys are Boomers or slightly younger, it looks like. Carol was probably in 70s disco orgies in college before being born again. College has been the Time of Sex and Hair-Clumped Showers for decades.
I think he meant that he has been wanting to punch out Toedad himself, so he is okay with his daughter doing it (for him) herself.
Joyce is just realizing that her dad is human and dislikes other people for his own reasons.
I’m guessing in this case Mr. Brown has known all along what Toedad really was like, but now add on to that – he drew a gun on his own daughter in front of his Joyce, and that just verified that opinion.
I’m pretty sure Hank’s last line means he’s wanted to punch Toedad in the face for a long while. Or maybe it’s recent, just from learning that Ross pointed a gun at Joyce.
My theory is that Hank did not like Ross for a long time but he kept his mouth shut because Joyce and Becky were really close and/or it looks bad to start shit in a close-knit religious community
Ross’s wife might’ve also been a big part of the picture.
If Ross’s Wife and Joyce’s Mom were friends, then Hank would probably just play nice with Ross in order to keep the peace.
And of course when two parents hang out, they bring their kids, and those kids play together. So by the time Ross’s wife died the kids were almost grown and had developed a strong friendship of their own.
In fact, if it started with Joyce it’s likely he would’ve just nipped that in the bud early. Like “Dad! I’ve got this new friend! She’s invited me over!”, “Yeah, sorry Joyce. I’m getting a bad vibe from her dad. Maybe see if you can bring her over to our place instead.”
Very possible. In that community, you’re encouraged to make all your connections inside the church group, so there’d be a lot of pressure to turn a blind eye to how awful Toedad was and play nice.
Gonna be honest, even though I’m really enjoying what we’re learning of Hank’s character, I’m now more worried than ever about Joyce’s mom. I mean Hank just seems so…chill. And willing to change (in at least his stance on homosexuality given his reaction to Becky). I’m having a bit of difficulty understanding it all. Mainly because my experience was so different. Also, I just thought of something. When he mentioned a few strips ago about warning Carol about Becky’s haircut, did it look to anyone else like he was scared? Given his behavior when Carol was around (that episode during parents weekend) what if he wasn’t acting like he really felt, and he acted like that because he’s actually afraid of his wife?
I read Joyce’s expression as total surprise/shock. I’d bet she was expecting to get an earful about how violence is wrong and how dare she lay violent hands on a friend of the family. Her mother, over the phone, has already tried to minimize and excuse what Toedad did.
Instead of hearing the same from her father, Joyce is hearing ‘God, I wish I’d been the one to deck that asshole hard enough to sprain my wrist’ and it’s throwing her off.
Okay, so I’m beginning to get the feeling that Ross wasn’t exactly Bank’s favourite person. I’m beginning to wonder if there was a longer, sadder story here than many imagined. Or maybe everyone in the congregation thought that he was an asshole but put up with him for the sake of Becky and her mother.
Even if they were best friends forever and Toedad once saved Hank’s life in the war or whatever… old rectangle face was running around threatening to shoot up the campus where Hank’s _daughter_ lives, man. It doesn’t matter if they swore a binding oath on a stack of bibles to be bros for life and then signed a contract in blood, that friendship is OVER.
There is no amount of religion, assholery, or personal feeling that balances out threatening your children’s lives. Even Blaine probably has it out for Toedad at this point.
One good thing to draw out of this strip — Joyce is still Joyce, more or less, and old habits die hard. Despite having her faith shaken by Becky’s dad, who showed himself to be a religious maniac, a complete jerk, and a total asshole, he’s still a grown-up and Joyce still finds herself unable to refer to him as anything but “Mr. MacIntyre” in panel three.
Mrr. I’m Canadian so maybe we’re more informal than Americans, but in Canada, speaking someone’s first name is a sign of rank. You first-name an equal or someone junior to you, you title someone superior to you in rank/prestige/etc.
(depending on the region and generation – at my workplace, everyone’s still on a first-name basis with everyone, from the boss on down, but in military communities, frex, it’s verrrry old-fashioned and if you’re a kid you sir and ma’am everyone who is older than you.)
Norwegian (who immigrated to USA) here, and titles are more or less non-existent in any setting outside the really formal ones (including the military, I assume). Anyone meeting the prime minister would refer to her by her first name within seconds.
Now, some parts of the country, we may occasionally call people by their last names, but it’s always said in such an informal tone, it’s hardly a sign of respect or rank. It’s just that to us, some people just fit their last name better than the first name.
I think it’s mostly a generational thing here in Norway. My grandad would’ve been greeted with Mr. or the Norwegian equivalent; Herr and probably would’ve done so to others. Whereas after my parents became adults the habit had started to wane to the point where it’s nearly non-existent today.
Yeah, you’re probably right. I grew up in the countryside, though; in a valley and family that has always been informal to the extreme. As such, I never remember my grandparents (whom I visited a lot as a kid) being greeted with anything but their first names… Though it may well have happened, of course.
I’m thinking if we were to remove both Becky & Hank’s influence on Joyce, you’d end up with something not unlike Mary. Which makes me feel sorry for Mary and the upbringing she must have faced.
I am hesitantly optimistic here… Like I want to hope that Hank has turned over a new leaf and will be a supportive figure for Joyce again, but he is every bit as brainwashed as she was. This is the man who tried to gaslight when it came to Dorothy, essentially attempting to invalidate her beliefs and tell her to turn to God (Because God would prove them right).
The cynical part of me worries there is a religious intervention waiting for her at home, and Hank will claim Joyce willingly returned home because she was the one driving, or some such BS.
If it helps your cynical parts, Joyce would still be returning home willingly even if she wasn’t the one driving? Plus, if there was a religious intervention of the type I think you’re thinking of, I’d think Hank wouldn’t have let Becky come along.
Not to say Mrs. Brown wouldn’t try something extemporaneously, of course.
I’m feeling cautious here. He seems good, but he was trying to manipulate his daughter into believing a certain way just a few weeks ago.
Still, he may genuinely be trying to learn and change.
…
Call it cautious optimism.
If Joyce returns, and all is still well with him and her, I’ll accept his new outlook.
Being religious and even evangelical don’t necessarily add up to being a bad person. He can be worried about his daughter’s friends and spiritual health and even pushy about it without necessarily crossing the line into being controlling. Family does that, they try to give you advice and tell you what to do, especially parents. It’s kinda their job.
That said, remember that Hank has had almost literally the same storyline as Joyce’s experience at the frat party, albeit the parents’ fears edition instead of the rape edition. Someone who he considered safe because he was part of his community used the faith as an excuse to forcibly abduct his daughter’s friend and put his daughter in actual physical danger, and no one was hurt only by the raw power of luck/provenance intervening at the last possible second: chances are that any inclination he had to assume that Christians are safe to associate with his family and atheists are a risk was just shot to hell in a fairly brutal fashion.
It’s a lot more than just a general self-imposed resolve to try to let go and let Joyce make her own mistakes at this point.
Joyce was able to contact Amazi-girl through Dorothy.
If Joyce had taken Hank’s advice and not been friends with Dorothy, there would have been no heroic chase scene, no car crash, and Ross would have been out of town before the cops were able to catch up. Even with the most optimistic assumptions about Ross’s intentions or Becky’s ability to escape, Joyce’s friendship with Dorothy directly saved Becky from being locked in a car for four hours with the man who just pointed a gun at her.
Assuming some phone conversations during the timeskip to establish shared knowledge of the basic facts of the situation, Hank knows all that. He can see, in retrospect, that his advice would have cut of his daughter from resources she needed, to disastrous result. Meditating on all that, putting the pieces together, it must’ve felt like God slapped him across the face. If he’d told Joyce to skip some first aid course, but she went anyway because Jesus had that whole thing about healing the sick, then later Becky was choking and Joyce saved her with the Heimlich maneuver, that would be the same situation. Well, some random piece of gristle might get more respect than Toedad, but otherwise the same.
I doubt that Hank knows any details about Amazi-Girl or Sal’s role in events. I am sure both of them left without talking to the police and have no wish to do so. Hopefully Joyce and anyone else involved who knows who those mysterious vigilantes are keeps quiet about it.
Hank does love his daugther and he is a papa wolf no doubt about that. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PapaWolf
Carol is pretty stupid while Hank knew that their daugther could have DIED because of Toedad. So understandable he doesn’t like him at all but before that Toedad must have rubbed him in a wrong way since he talks like that. guess he really dislikes him or even hated him for years.
But i may be mistaken. But toedad and Hank are NOT friends at all.
I got that feeling too, about the fact that he might’ve disliked him from quite a while ago. I mean, he’s the ugliest culmination of obnoxiousness you could ever imagine…
I’m getting some serious “Thea’s dad from GWS” vibes from Hank right now.
Also, go Hank! Keep supporting your daughter. This is how you should have been acting back at the fountain; I hope you don’t completely back down once we get to Carol.
(Hank is unexpectedly decent. Jocelyne is on the way, along with probably!John (or Jordan. Jordan was the one they “didn’t see eye-to-eye” with, wasn’t he?). Carol, at last encounter, was mostly a wingnut. Becky has tagged along. Oh, the incoming drama.)
(Also, I’m still struggling to keep Hank and John Brown in my head. The name’s just… wrong.)
Oh, hey. I’ve read Girls Without Slingshots now (well, at least, the last parts. I’m waiting on the new versions for some of the older stuff), so I know what you’re talking about.
But you know that means a divorce, right? And maybe Hank has less money, so Joyce has to get a job.
Okay, Joyce, now tell him how Becky had to physically restrain you from curbstomping him into paste while swearing repeatedly and see how he takes that.
On that aspect, he reminds me of my own dad. He might be the type to be torn between the two, and if so he’s eventually gonna have to priorize one of them. But since that’ll hurt, he might just stay as passive as possible for as long as possible. I really wonder how it’ll develop and if the similarity to my dad stays.
(fyi : I have a good relationship with my dad, and by actually taking my mom’s side more often than not even when she was unfair, he did put his marriage over his children, because as he says, she’s the one to accompany him every day and for life, and his children have to build their own lives. I feel like in the end he made the right choice, and it even eventually helped my mother soften since she felt validated, but it wasn’t a pleasant road at all.)
I don’t know what she’ll do, but as understanding as he seems, I think he might want to take her out of school if she tells him, whether he puts it into action or not.
Sometimes when you realize you aren’t the person your parents think you are, you end up finding out your parents aren’t the people you think they are, either.
Yes. This Dad has good points. I worry about what happens when they get home, but Hank has the appearance of being a good guy who maybe doesn’t know how to influence the more radical people around him and instead remains silent.
Y’know, it’s just possible that maybe Hank is slowly moving toward the idea that there’s something of a disconnect between calling yourself a Christian and having a list of groups you automatically hate. I certainly don’t expect that he’s going to end up where I did (I was raised Catholic, went to church until I was 21, and have since boiled it down to “Treat people right; don’t be an asshole”), but I think he may be realizing that some people and/or groups may not be as terrible as he’s always been led to believe. “Lesbians are bound for hell, but wait, I’ve known Becky her whole life and she’s a good person. That doesn’t make sense. And her father is a devout Christian, but look at all the felonies he just committed, on top of being just a terrible person. Maybe I need to think about this a little more.”
Personal growth: It’s a thing!
It’s probably also a shock to Hank’s system that Ross pointed a rifle at his daughter and fired that rifle in the air to intimidate and coerce his daughter’s best friend. Imagine the profound emotion that would inspire in a father who loves his daughter before all else.
I mean that this one incident alone may have been enough to spark a massive change; I know my own father’s take on his holy book began to modify when it was my life he was worried for, but that even in vocal struggles prior to that event, he had been oscillating close to his original camp.
I think he broke Joyce. She looks stunned and unable to parry for four rounds. Any moment now she’s going to pick up an eye-twitch as all her preconceptions are fed into a chipper-shredder. Then her mother goes and ruins it all.
After that, I’m never fully comfortable with Hank around, because we know how horrible he can be. We don’t even know if it’s his lowest point.
I know he said that he’s been rethinking his views a lot since Joyce stood up for Dorothy and he’s certainly been awesome so far in this arc.
In fact, at this point, I wish their car would break down so the three could spend the rest of the arc chilling with waffles at a nearby diner without any drama.
Maybe I’m just having difficulties with how different he seems. I appreciate that he seems to have improved, but I keep expecting a catastrophe to ruin the mood.
I don’t think he seems like a bad person for having a prayer circle in that scene. It would be horrible if you associated expression of religious action with a bad character, instead of looking at what motivates his beliefs and how he fits ritual into expression and growth in the direction of his faith. He also came around to trusting more in Joyce’s perspective via prayer. The prayer circle, to me, can seem like a fundamentalist means of brainwashing and socially coercing Joyce into re-accepting the status quo; it can also be interpreted (and I think this is closer to Hank’s view in that scene) as a joining of hands in fellowship and care, a means of directly expressing love and concern, while in communion with God as well. A way of turning private prayer into a family prayer, if you will. By that logic, Hank’s turn-around isn’t that huge a leap, as it means he incorporated more introspection into an already developed character.
It’s not the prayer circle itself. It’s what he prays. That prayer bothered me, and my family and I do these prayer things fairly often.
He says they’re taking the question to God, but the prayer doesn’t come off as someone asking God for advice. Instead, it comes off as a passive aggressive way to call Joyce a horrible sinner because she disagrees with them. There’s no asking God for what’s right; instead, he conveniently quotes the scripture that aligns with his position. The way the prayer is said, Joyce is being stubborn for not listening to her parents, and they’re asking God to convince her otherwise.
Sure, I don’t think Hank consciously realized that. I think he just didn’t even consider the idea she could be right. In his mind, the only possible answer was that Joyce was wrong to be friends with Dorothy. It was only when Joyce fought back, showing she had Scriptures, too–meaning she had worried about it and taken it to God, too–that he realized he could be wrong–that he was committing the sin of pride (if not also idolotry–putting his own opinon above God’s).
Now, I don’t think there’s any reason to be worried about him regressing back. But I don’t think you can defend that prayer as being anything other than trying to make Joyce do what Hank thought was right.
I agree with everything you said. For the very reasons you added, didn’t consider that scene as cause to be concerned per Trolldrool’s post. A lot of my view in that scene hinges on “I don’t think Hank consciously realized that. I think he just didn’t even consider the idea she could be right,” because that makes it a great deal less sinister, adding in the fountain scene and the recent scenes. It’s a human plot device, best way to put it, rather than some darker plot device. Given we all have our foibles, I’m sure more than a handful of commenters have held some perspective which they later found was dead wrong and they grew from (doesn’t have to be homophobia or racism or what have you, could be as benign as not liking the new girl in first grade because you thought she looked stuck-up).
Omg actually I’m going to quote cobragardens from a few comments up: “Sometimes when you realize you aren’t the person your parents think you are, you end up finding out your parents aren’t the people you think they are, either.”
Yeah, this is all either building up to him saying something well-meaning but really shitty, or it’s setting up a contrast for Mrs. Brown. Either way, I don’t think the good times are gonna last.
Okay, I’m REALLY REALLY REALLY hoping that, out of those two scenarios, it’s the latter, because if its the first, there’s no telling if Mrs. Brown will be any less terrible.
I know I jumped the gun before when I said he was the best dad but I think it’s now safe to say that he is the best dad in this comic or at least pretty darn close.
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look at Hank, all like “I’m the SECOND good dad in this comic!”
[inb4 “I thought you were playing XCOM 2!”: it runs kinda slow on my computer and I had other shit I was trying to do before it dropped, DILEMMAS]
More like, I dunno…fifth?
Well, Joe’s dad clearly shouldn’t count since he’s just Joe from the future posing as his own father.
Shh, this is The Willis building our hopes up.
I’m afraid you’re right.
But, we do know what her mother’s like. We have a bit of warning.
Set up for a divorce arc?
…wait. Given things in the other universe, would Willis actually…?
…naaaah. 😛
Did you reduce the quality or resolution? It might help.
I don’t know if that will actually help, because I might play it and not finish the other projects I was trying to finish =B
also, nope, already seems to be minimal settings
If you’re having the 30FPS/VSync issue, see if this video helps: by Idiotech
Plague Of Gripes posted some .ini tweaks on his twitter for people suffering performance issues on Xcom 2 when they shouldn’t be. They might help
yeah totalbiscuit said it had some performance issues, especially among the newer settings. New as in, werent in xcom 1… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1dLGihV0No
Well, it’s like all modern games: anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering take up the bulk of the extra processing. Turn those off and all of a sudden you get a free double-digit increase in frames per second. In TotalBiscuit’s case, he turned off anti-aliasing, but decided to keep anisotropic filtering, because, well it’s fucking rad. He also mentioned turning off ambient occlusion helped, as well as turning off the action cam as it was buggy.
Windowed Mode Helped for me. Also turning off every dang option graphically.
I also had Steam verify the local content. Two files were corrected and now it runs better. The ayys have been dodging better and shooting better as well though. 🙁
hmm, it’s windowed (I have a 5:4 main monitor and it literally will not display otherwise), everything is turned all to lowest… .ini settings look like the next thing to try
keeping in mind that Transistor also ran like shit for me until I finally upgraded my graphics card, which solved like 99.99% of my problems across all Steam games
It’s weird. Game runs fine on my system; I’ve got like 16 hours invested in it already. However, it’s giving my 2 nephews all kinds of trouble.
Joyce may ressent him for not doing anything more than silently frowing, tho.
Disagree. I think that Joyce is going to find out that her father isn’t quite who she thinks he is and she will love him for it.
Apparently that’s a common problem. This video has a guy talk about the technical issues with the game, and what settings he changed to get a decent framerate going.
Heh now i am imaging him looking out the window and seeing Amazi-Girl doing that “I got my eye one you” sign.
I’m worried that her mom is going to turn out to be *horrible* to counterbalance it.
I thought it was obvious already that her mom is horrible. 😐 The fact that Hank is apparently better than her but still under her thumb concerns me, however. :/
As much as Joyce’s mom raises my hackles, being married to someone does not make you “under their thumb”.
The way Mr. Brown acts around her, yeah I’d say he’s under her thumb.
Maybe though, this will be important enough for him to stand up to her.
Yeah, I get that vibe too. He just goes with what she says.
My in-laws are that way. You can talk to my father-in-law about something or ask a favor, and he will be all for it and agree. Then he tells my mother-in-law about it later. If she disapproves even a little, it’s not happening and he will back out. No matter what he feels or thinks about the matter.
He’s done it for so long that he has no idea he does it at all.
I’m not seeing it. He’s taken the lead in every scene they’ve shared together, and he clearly led the way when he accepted Joyce’s friendship with Dorothy. Even earlier when he called to notify her that Becky was coming, I get the distinct impression that he’s handling her to head off drama.
I realize he’s being cool right now, and she was being terrible last time we saw her, but that doesn’t mean that the times he wasn’t cool that he was just caving to her. They presented a unified front against Dotty at first because they were in -agreement-, and when he changed his mind, she didn’t say a thing about it. I haven’t seen anything to indicate that he’s “under her thumb”. She’s just his wife.
I think you guys might be thinking of Danny’s parents. Or maybe Walky’s.
I suspect he’s quite a bit like Joyce – Has some horrible ideas, but cares about people more and thus is willing to change or at least make exceptions.
And attacking his little girl is way over the line, even if she is all grown up.
But yeah, Hank gets more points today.
Plus it’s somewhat nice to find out that even other fundies want to punch the Human Toe.
It just dawned on me that the whole evolving scenario could be setting up for Joshua coming out. O.o That could get really, really, really ugly.
I wonder if Hank is not so much “under her thumb” as the peacemaker type. You know, the guy who doesn’t want a huge fight, and just wants his family together.
I mean, when did he back down? When Joyce got upset. And when he did so, his wife did not dare defy him.
What I suspect will happen is that things will be tense, but no outright problems. Just maybe passive aggressiveness by Joyce’s mom while Joyce’s dad tries to keep it happy.
But, of course, something will happen, and she’ll break. She’ll be unable to control herself. Maybe Jocelyne coming out, maybe Becky getting carried away, I don’t know.
I always saw it as the other way around.
When the Browns met Dorothy, he was the one who left, and the one who called out Joyce’s “attitude”. When they re-met her at the fountain and Joyce stood up to them, he basically went, “okay then”. Carol, on the other hand, looked VERY unhappy with him basically giving Joyce permission to keep hanging out with Dorothy- which she had literally JUST told Joyce not to do.
I really got the impression that Carol was far more willing to be unpleasant, whereas Hank wants more to be nicer, even when walking away from someone who just wanted to talk to them. He has been less hostile, less hateful, and less abrasive. (Not perfect, but less so than Carol.) But it felt to me that as soon as they disagreed, Carol immediately fell silent and let Hank call the shots- despite appearing extremely unhappy about what he was saying.
That doesn’t mean that she won’t pull out the hatred and bigotry. She seems good at that, and even if she doesn’t fight Hank on letting Becky stay with them she can still be unpleasant without undermining him.
This. Plus with Joyce’s beliefs about marriage and how the father “should be” compared to the mother made me think of Joyce’s mom as under Joyce’s dad’s thumb.
More like under her CHIN! srsly… The tags should refer to her as The Chin Lady.
A former girlfriend’s mom is the same way. The father was really great and laid back, but her mother is really judgmental and controlling.
My grandparents were like that when my granddad was still alive – he could do anything he liked (which was mostly gardening) but if he did anything that upset or annoyed my granny, she would tell him to stop and he would.
Her most irritating characteristic was that she required everyone – even close family – to make appointments to go visit them. She could not stand anybody ever just showing up and saying “Hey gran, we were just passing and thought we’d drop in to see you!”… :/
This kind of relationship makes a a lot of sense to me. Generally speaking, I don’t give a fuck. I just want everyone to be happy. I’ll do my thing and if it bothers you, let me know and I’ll stop.
However, I promise there was stuff he cared about and they fought about it. This wasn’t about Grandpa rolling over; this was about Grandpa not giving a shit.
“Her most irritating characteristic was that she required everyone – even close family – to make appointments to go visit them”
Well, it takes time to put away all that bondage gear.
I dunno. In all their appearances, she’s defaulted to him and let him lead for the big decision moment and that community is all about the woman being submissive to the man and taking his lead. So it could be as simple as he’s grown up a little and has decided to trust his daughter more and feels more relaxed to admit things like how he likes how she decked out a church “friend”.
Now, by the same token, the mom in those communities is expected to be the moral compass of the family, keeping everyone godly so that her husband doesn’t need to “correct” her. So, there may be some contention there as she views this all as her daughter and husband backsliding out of the church and it is now her role to return all to godliness.
Ephesians 5, as Joyce quoted a few strips back, which is surely not a coincidence.
It’s an interesting little religious trap, since Carol must reject the lesbian, but can’t defy her husband. So, um yay? Religious misogyny working on the good side for once?
Though, even without open defiance, she can do an awful lot to show Becky she’s not welcome and to go after Joyce for supporting her.
Yup, it’s the sort of system that massively encourages passive-aggressive sniping.
Yeah that’s what I also expect.
Given the death glare she gave Dorothy’s mom, even after Hank relented in the face of Joyce’s arguments…
I’m assuming it is going to suck on release until my friends convince me it has more pros than cons.
(This is what playing Civilisation for 20% of my lifespan has done.)
Nah. Hank’s the first good dad in the comic. Because he was the first dad we saw in the comic.
Sounds like the kind of dad I’d like to be.
HANK. BEST CHARACTER.
Whoa lets not ahead of our selves. Maybe best dad but he will have to fight over Dina’s father. (Hmm not very much competition for best dad is there?)
There’s also Mr. Keener and Mr. Snow!
Other Rachael seems nice, I wouldn’t be surprised if her Dad was too
Mr. Snow?
Sierra’s dad seems like a good dad.
There is also Mike, but that is Shortpacked universe =P. Admit it, anybody here would die to have Mike as there Dad…. for a nickel.
I just finished by Breaking Bad binge, so for a moment I thought you were talking about Hank Schrader.
Yes everybody hates toe dad.
Everyone wants to see him stubbed.
*claps*
Along with Blaine…and Ryan.
They need to start their own Legion of Doom.
Blaine, Ryan, Toedad! As evil as they come!
*stupidly catchy bass riff*
Their own Axis of Something
For a second there I thought you meant Ryan was a dad, and I was like, hmm, I wonder…
Fuck you toedad!!
It’s not his fault, hes from the deep south and in grown.
Oh, the Midwest grows ’em like that, too. Especially Indiana.
Hah, so I guess Toedad wasn’t liked among the other parents?
Or that Hank isn’t as easily forgiving of him as Carol seems to be.
My bet is that he didn’t appreciate Toedad pulling a gun on his daughter.
Probably a safe bet, but he was likely also exposed to sides of Ross that Joyce never had to see. I’m thinking his dislike of the man predates the incident.
I concur with your assessment sir!
Well, actually…
Consider that when Becky was pulled out of school, and her roommate got out with nothing worse than a warning, whereas Becky was taken away to be disciplined as a bad influence, like she was the one the most at fault (as we know, there was no actual fault, but I mean subjectively). This is the kind of behaviour that would be clearly visible to a family (the Browns) when their child is a close friend with a child with a father with that behaviour. Acquainted families tend to know things about each other’s habits fairly well, although by no means to all acquainted families work this way. I’m just saying that toedad is probably a well-known strict, overzealous type.
Yeah – Ross probably showed those sides willingly and unashamedly to Hank, secure in his own hideous worldview and the assumption that a Good White Christian Man would find no fault in his views or behavior.
Think back to the horrifying things he said to Becky – and then imagine what kinds of things he’d say when there weren’t any women around.
Agreed. Especially if bible study at their church is separated by gender.
It wouldn’t be surprising at all if Hank has long, long disliked Toedad because he disapproves of the way Ross parented Becky, because of things Ross has said to Hank at church or other social gatherings when children and/or women were out of earshot, because of him threatening Joyce’s life, and also because of the way he reacted to Becky’s coming out (well, forcing out.).
I really can’t imagine that many people in the world actually *like* Ross from what we’ve seen and heard of him.
Yeahthis.
I don’t like the fundie philosophy or world view. I have reasons based strongly in life experience to treat people who espouse fundamentalism with wary suspicion as my default approach to them.
That said, to the credit of fundies, even the fundiest of fundies I’ve met, as a general rule, would dislike Ross at least and openly condemn him if not move to have him excluded from their church at most. Because did Jesus not say let he who is without sin etc etc. That someone believes in a worldview I find vile does not mean they themselves are an evil or terrible person. Most fundies I’ve met are more on the Joyce/Hank end of the spectrum rather than the Carol/Toedad/Mary end. Downside is that the Fundie worldview is very authoritarian, so if they have a Carol/Toedad/Mary type as their pastor, they might be terrible to you, even though they feel bad about it, just because that’s what they’re taught is the right thing to do (yes, this is exactly why I view fundies with a wary suspicion as my default – I went to a school that had a lot of fundies, and the folks who bullied me hardest for bisexuality and atheism – and who told met that my asthma and autism were God’s condemnation for my sinfulness – were fundies, and most of them were doing it because their pastor had them convinced it was the right thing to do. There were a couple Mary’s in the group, but most were more on the Joyce/Hank end of the spectrum and after they moved away for a bit and got exposed to a more diverse environment, they realized how shitty they’d been and a lot of them have since apologized to me).
I’ve had similar experiences.
As a kid and teen I had a lot of friends that were Deaf, and because of that I also had a lot of friends that didn’t quite fit in in other ways. I didn’t fit in either, but in away that the fundies left alone. Many of my friends weren’t so lucky. One friend told me how there’d be a few times that people, total strangers, had done things like lay hands on her and try to exorcise the demon in her that was causing her deafness. Or that strangers had seen her and her mom signing and would ask her mom what sin she committed that was so egregious that it would cause her daughter to be cursed with deafness.
Now I’m physically disabled and run in to similar encounters. People telling me that if I had more faith I’d be cured and things like that. Because apparently God is sadistic enough to curse people with genetic disorders that cause people constant pain and causes them to gradually lose their balance and mobility just because they questioned things a little. Sounds like a great guy, totally worthy of adoration and worship, huh?
I’m now fully atheist, but it took a long time to get here. Being around that mindset growing up (much of my family is very fundamentalist) screwed with me for a long time. In my 20s I still believed in a God, but didn’t think he sat about messing with people’s lives all the time. I guess I was semi-Deist?
Still, when I started having trouble with infertility and depression caused by said infertility, I started questioning if I was wrong and if God really *was* punishing me.
Once I got better, I realized that that was a pretty fucked up concept to force on a kid so deeply that they would agonize over ever mistake they ever made, wondering if that was the cause of things like endometriosis or a hormone imbalance well in to adulthood.
I’m so glad my kid won’t have to deal with that shit.
I’ve got an ongoing headcanon that Becky’s mom was good at subtle manipulation, so she kept Ross’s worst features under control. Then when she died he had to deal with grief and suddenly take over parenting when he knew nothing about it. And proceeded to consistently make the wrong choices.
This makes a lot of sense. A husband suddenly having to be a parent is very similar to someone winning a large sum of money in a lottery. Most of them are ill-equipped to deal with the new situation and, more often than not, are broke or dead a few years later.
Prolly not, cause he’s also just an unpleasant person. Even if you agreed with his racism, sexism, etc…, he doesn’t seem the type to smile all that much or at least show that sort of “vulnerability” in public and is very big on presenting the big bad alpha daddy image everywhere, which must be exhausting for all his “friends”. Like, even if you agree that women are inferior and gays are recruiting your kids, you don’t want to hear a lecture about it all the time. Plus, he seems way more conservative than even the usual church crowd so I’m sure there were plenty of moments when Hank or another was internally thinking “hey, now, that’s not okay”.
Plus there were things like how Joyce’s parents talked about the Chick-fil-a protests versus how Ross talked about them. They’re both wrong imo, but to Joyce’s parents it was an event to be able to say their beliefs, versus for Ross it was an event to emotionally hurt people he didn’t like.
Also, don’t forget what we learned about Joyce’s older “brother” (or is it… Sister. Your thought betray you…). Dad here may be more aware of the situation that the rest of the family.
If you are referring to Jocelyne, it’s “sister”.
It is “sister”, though if she is deliberately staying in the closet it would be the height of rudeness to contradict her narrative in her closeted setting (in this case, at her parents’ home). In her case, however, I think it gets a little murky. Looking at the preview panels, I think that she is open with at least some of her family (I assume that is Jonathan she is traveling with in the car). It might be possible that the only ones that do not currently know is Carol and Joyce.
It is absolutely “sister” *except when she is passing as male.” In that case, it’s best to use an ungendered word like “sibling” or “sib” if that’s possible.
That sort of thing does tend to put a damper on a friendship.
Or Hank pays more attention to the “CHECK BULLS**T” light on his figurative dashboard.
Liked or not, dude pointed a gun at his daughter.
If he was, he isn’t anymore. Any friendship he had with anyone with a kid on that campus ended the second the gun came out.
she looks so shocked
Color me surprised. I’m liking Hank more and more.
He’ll tell you ‘hwhat.
Dang ol Hank man, talkin’bout learnin humility lettin his little girl grow up man. Bring a dang ol tear to your eye man, some kinda dang ol metaphor let ‘er drive the car just one big ol’, talkin’bout Joyce take the wheel y’know? Tell y’what baby born baby ain’t never done growin’ just growin’ all the time man, dang ol’ Dumbin’ of Age.
Perfect Impression. 1000 Internets to you Sir/Ma’am/Nonbinary person!
I raise it to 10,000 Internets!
They should have sent a poet.
+1 to House Boomhauser
Okay, Hank. You just became interesting.
Quite.
So worried that Hank will say something wrong and awful eventually though
Appropriate avatar is appropriate.
Suzi’s avatar in her reply below fits really well with her comment too!
And so does yours1 This is like a chain of fitting avatars, very nice! :3
*!
Maybe he’ll be transphobic?
Mmh, I’d lay odds at this point that CAROL’S gonna be transphobic, and he’s going to want to get to know his daughter, which will cause a schism between the two of them.
Everyone has so much newfound faith in Hank! It’d take a lot to convince me that Hank isn’t transphobic. Less so, maybe. Perhaps more willing to live and let live and still love his kid. But almost everyone in this society is transphobic to a degree and I really doubt someone like Hank is going to be better.
Yeah, he’s not going to immediately accept Jocelyne*. I do think that he will eventually, but it’s going to take a lot of praying, thinking, talking and listening.
* is that how she spells it? I know there’s an extra ‘e’ on the end, but not sure if I spelled the rest right.
Also, I find that choice of name interesting. At one time Jocelyn/Jocelin/*insert other various spellings* was a very masculine name. It wasn’t until the 20th century, when the name Lynn became more popular and became almost exclusively perceived as feminine, that Jocelyn became a very feminine name along with other -lyn names like Evelyn.
A very apt, meaningful, lovely name for her to chose.
Jocelyne is the canonical spelling. Dunno what her middle name is, but it starts with J.
I’m gonna go with Joeena.
Joeena would be Joe’s secret half-sister. Who also looks like her dad, poor girl.
oh its almost guaranteed he will be! buts its plausible that just like with becky, hed be willing to set his beliefs aside and accept his daughter.
i mean hes still homophobic too, hes just being nice because he believes beckys a good kid.
He’s been told his entire life how things “are supposed to” be. That he’s this open-minded to social progress is extremely positive.
He’s christian, so… by definition, yeah, anti-gay and probably not keen on identifying as anything other than what god handed to you genome-wise.
He seems capable of thinking someone or something is wrong and also realizing that beyond expressing the opinion he has no actual authority on the matter, though, which is fine. It’s all the secular world really asks of religious people, honestly.
I hope that Willis doesn’t make this a “character redeemed for the viewers by giving him anachronistic attitudes or sacrificing his convictions in favor of the audience’s” deal. That’d be kind of a cop-out and make him boring again. A person of genuine faith trying to reconcile with other people that don’t share it without violating scripture’s an actual interesting character, christian-in-name-only is something we’ve already seen a billion times.
“He’s Christian, so by definition anti-gay.” No. There are PLENTY Christians who have absolutely no issue with homosexuality. What made us strongly suspect he might be homophobic was that we know Joyce was raised in a fundamentalist Christian environment.
I’m an atheist myself, but I can’t stand people lumping all Christians (or all people of a certain religion, or all religious people) together like this. 🙂
“There are PLENTY Christians who have absolutely no issue with homosexuality.”
*waves*
Also, some of the nicest kids in the GSA I run at my school are Christian. They got really mad when a teacher described the school’s Christian club as “the opposite of Mr. Katzmann’s GSA club.”
Yep! Progressive Christian checking in!
“He’s Christian, so by definition anti-gay.” … well you’re a dipshit, Jonas.
Christian, white, male, pentecostal (and close friends with the pastor for ummm since about 2000?), and strongly in support of gay marriage and of the right for folk to choose for themselves who they want to identify as. Hi! I’m the demographic you’re forgetting about, and there’s way more of us than you think. (In fairness: a lot of social discourse over in the US tends to silence that viewpoint, possibly ‘cos if it were heard then silencing LBGT* viewpoints might be cast in a different light, and we can’t have that, now, can we?)
(wait. I’m basically a long-haired single version of Hank at this point, equipped with a feminist-friendly reading list [Walter Kaiser, Katharine Bushnell]. um…)
“A person of genuine faith trying to reconcile with other people that don’t share it without violating scripture’s an actual interesting character.”
Sounds like you wish there was a Joyce in the cast?
The problem is that there is a very loud group of Christians who would define Christianity the way JonasofAtlantis did, though as a positive thing of course.
If you’re not Christian yourself or not in contact with obviously Christian types who are feminist and LGTBQ friendly, it’s very easy to lose track of the fact that it’s actually (LGBTQ(some of whom are Christian) vs subset of Christians) rather than (LGTBQ vs Christians).
Yup. And like any subculture that’s a politics thing as much as a media one—I must vote for someone like me or the Others win!. (If, uh, that’s your gospel, and if your God needs to be in charge to be good, count me out.)
Which is why the Cruzes and Rubios and Falwells of this world scare the crap out of me. In fact, anyone to the right of Carter, come to think. (And why political faith as described always turns out to be a right-wing deal is a queasy question I’m not at all awake enough to want to face.)
I take exception to the notion that homophobia and transphobia is a defining feature of Christianity. That is most certainly not a defining feature and there were a number of Christians, even pastors, that openly support the LGBQT community. Hell, last year when Indiana passed their RFA that allowed for open discrimination of the LGBQT community due to “sincerely held religious beliefs”, one of the first and the loudest protests came from the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), who threatened to cancel an upcoming large conference in Indy if the law did not get repealed (it would have cost the city of Indianapolis about $6M if they did cancel).
For that matter, it is not as though one need to be Christian to be an extreme homophobe. Sure, Christians in Uganda have recently killed gay people in the street, but far more alleged gays have been killed in Muslim regions (punishable by death in many nations). You can get life imprisonment for simply being gay in the Hindu nation of India and the Buddhist nation of Burma. It is not a defining feature of Christianity. It is a feature you find in many people, though they might wrap that hatred in their religion to defend it.
OTOH, it’s reasonable to say that religion is a defining feature of homophobia these days and in the US, that religion is overwhelmingly Christian. And those Christians go to good deal of trouble to make sure they’re identified with their religion, which LGBT-friendly Christians often don’t.
It’s not, but… it’s definitely a defining trait of the particular sect of pre-millennial dispensationalist rapturist Christians that Hank and Carol are a part of. That particular church has viewed gay/trans rights and abortion as the single two biggest battles for a good couple of decades now, so while it is a big stretch that Hank can try and work through his homophobia to accept Becky that he is meeting, having his own daughter turn out to be trans may be a bridge too far for him.
Especially since there are no shortage of families that are very pro-queer-rights that nonetheless balk at the notion of trans acceptance.
Honestly, he probably knows nothing of trans issues other than a few news reports and whatever he’s heard in church. Even if he does come around in the end, finding out will be a huge shock and it’s bound to get ugly. Hell, Joyce is likely to ugly, through ignorance if nothing else.
Even the homophobia would have been too much if he hadn’t had time to pray and think about it. And the earlier experience with Joyce & Dorothy.
I feel like adding this Buzzfeed video to this thread. 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bWHSpmXEJs
There’s anti-gay and there’s anti-gay. It’s possible for a Christian to believe homosexuality is a sin *and* still be, well, Christian, towards a gay person. Granted, the strident haters waving signs and trying to maintain legal discrimination against gay people while spitting condemnations get all the press, but personal discomfort/awkwardness are the extent of many fundamentalist’s reaction to gay people, they still try to be decent towards them.
That said, Hank seems to me to be edging more towards the charismatic / progressive edge of the hardcore Christian belief set where homosexuality is a burden placed upon someone by God for reasons known only to God, rather than a personal choice. We’ll see what happens when they get home, I guess.
(Note — though I know enough of these Christians to know how they think, please do not ascribe the way they think to me personally, because I’m neither of the above. Thank you.)
I mean, all people will given the right (or wrong I guess) subject and time mixed with ignorance. No one is perfect, but some people are less awful than others.
I’m at 99.8 percent perfect. It’s a work in progress. 😉
I think this might end up being one of those “Evil triumphs when good people do nothing” type dealies.
We’re seeing that he has pretty decent feelings about everything that’s been going down, but then his silence at the family dinner table will be damning.
He’s already given himself a pretty convenient out. He cedes to Joyce’s wisdom because as a woman Joyce understands these things better than him, but that also means that when Mom starts getting into it with Joyce he can just step back and let the women sort this out among themselves.
In retrospect the reasoning there was a little strained too. The homosexuality debate is pretty unisex in nature, it’s just that the homosexual person in question right now happens to be a woman. That’s a weird way to split things up. Like, if we started talking about Ethan would Hank suddenly have the authority because as a man he understands this better than her?
My impression was that he was using ‘woman’ as “adult”. Not Secret Female Intuition, but Joyce being an adult whose opinion he should listen to, especially on subjects she knows more about, like Becky. (And maybe, in the back of his mind, this changing new world of the future.)
Oh yeah, that would make sense.
That last panel might be one of those things.
“You have my support” is (hopefully) what he’s trying to say, but it comes with the aftertaste of “your life-or-death situation was exciting for me.”
That’s not how I read it. I take it more as “I’ve wanted to hit that man for years now but never had an appropriate situation for it. I’m so glad my daughter got to do it.”
Also, it served to validate her anger at Ross.
It is entirely possible to be a good person and have shitty opinions at the same time.
See: Joyce in much of this comic
See Also: 99% of humanity, despite what the Internet would have you believe.
Awww, man. Joyce is gonna have to deal with the revelation that her parents are just regular people! The worst part of college, to be sure. 😉
Everybody Wants To Punch Toedad
They should make a punching bag with his face on it.
Or like those clown bag things in psych centers.
Oddly enough, this comment reminded me to take my brain medicine.
Yay Mirtazapine!
Yay, I’m useful for once! Commenting for good!
Willis has so many things that he must sell. Plushies, T-shirts, bobble clowns….
We need full length body pillows of Dina naked, for scientific reasons lf course.
Well if he sold one of Sal….
News reporter: In other news local cartoonist David. M Willis reportedly has acquired all of the money.
Dammit, who let Faz in here?
There’s a little Faz in everyone.
Even you.
And by “little Faz”, he is referring to his penis.
You may commence screaming in 3, 2…
Please refer to this handy diagram…
“Handy.” heh.
I know Keenspot sold a Joyce plushie at one point, back in the It’s Walky days.
I’d buy a DoA Joyce for my cat, who loves cuddling stuffed toys, but she beheaded my Deadpool plushie, and I think Joyce has been through enough trauma lately.
I’d buy it.
Bet Hank has wanted to punch Toedad for years.
If the musically inclined lurk among us, let them take note of this idea.
Starring Ray Romano!
Butthole Dad
Look around you
Everyone
Is here to pound you
I neeeeeeeeed to punch you
Like a sandbag
And everybody wants to punch Toedad
Everybody wants to punch Toedad
Everybody wants to punch Toedad
Hahaha oh, Joyce’s dad just rose in my empathy scale.
Honestly, this is probably part of a running argument he’s having with his wife. It seems like the mother is on the “Toedad’s actions were extreme, but I sympathize with his desire to protect his daughter” side, and Hank is going with “fuck that guy, clearly anything he’s doing is so wrong that we should do the exact opposite”.
Bringing Becky home and explicitly approving of her friendship with Joyce is his way of escalating a passive-aggressive difference of opinion into an actual argument that he feels they need to have. Probably he’s trying to bring Joyce into it to make the point that if they don’t back off a bit they’ll lose their daughter too. And maybe as a sort of backwards idea about Joyce being an adult now and adults not needing to be shielded from parental arguments like children.
It should be noted that his plan is kind of a bad idea, but that’s how the comic works.
Hank strikes me as more of a “I know what I’m *expected* to do, and I have a suspicion what I actually *want* to do is the right thing, but I’ve long since learned to pick my battles, and to not pick them very often, if at all.” Let’s see if that “CHECK BULLS**T” light finally glows red enough to prompt action, or at least speaking up.
“God says I should trust that man and let him have dominion over his household especially since we are brothers in Christ and our children are such good friends, but Lord am I tempted to punch that man. Punch that man in his big fluffy mustache.”
Plays “Sins of the Father” over the Hacked Muzak.
So you are the new DJ, eh?
Nah, Stephen is still the DJ.
I just felt the title was way too fitting.
Where I’m just playing “Silent Running”.
I personally prefer Mr Brown’s “Weird Scene.”
Hank is shaping up to be a cool dude.
…I just noticed
His hair
It’s just like Mike’s
Welcome to the horror.
Nah, Mike doesn’t have those giant beautiful blue pools of eyeball, even when he’s drunk and friendly.
Time travel is real.
NO!
STOP!
DON’T EVEN GO THERE!
Even more crazy theory. Joyce’s dad is actually Mike from the Shortpacked universe that got sent over here by accident, lost all his memories, and will never know he left his wife and child behind in another universe.
Less crazy theory – Hank’s related to Mike’s…let’s say mom.
More crazy theory – this is all a webcomic created by some extremely handsome individual on the internet.
Well I wouldn’t say extremely handsome…I’m sorry Willis please don’t ban me
You’re right.
He’s handsomely extreme!
And a nickel.
Slightly less crazy theory, Hank is Mike from walkyverse and wanted Joyce to drive because he is drunk as all hell.
Nah, I choose to believe Mike would retain an essential Mikeness, a Platonic ideal of assholery, even if he lost all his memory and was in another timestream. Joyce kept her basic nature even without remembering.
Normally true but:
SPOILER WARNING FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT INTO THE FULL WALKYVERSE:
…
…
…
Mike’s existential nature does get subverted when he is “under the influence”. And if you look at linkman0596’s comment just above yours, you’ll see that this is exactly what is going on in here. It all makes sense!
Of course time travel is real. We’re all travel forward through it. Just not very fast.
Well, y’know, it’s all…
*sunglasses*
Relative.
One second per second, one way only.
and if you stop you never restart.
Ah yes. The Slow Path.
So Mike travelled back to become Joyce’s dad, and Joe travelled back to become his own dad?
Quick, check Hank’s pockets for a “Lucky Nickle.”
And Dad’s just told Joyce he’s on her side. Yay!
Joyce – “Does mom know about this?”
Dad – “Just… don’t mention it more than you have too.”
I’m afraid it’s gonna go that way too. Well not necessary the hitting part.
There may be a difference in degree, but is Joyce’s mother likely to approve of rifle pointed at daughter?
She’s indicated that she found Toedad’s motives sympathetic, though she doesn’t approve of the violence itself. It was just a short snippet of a phone conversation though (which was primarily her calling to make sure Joyce was all right, so she’s probably still holding it against the guy on a personal level).
This is obviously something she and Hank are arguing over, probably as a proxy argument for her wanting to react to the fear the incident sparked by trying to helicopter Joyce harder (dictate who her friends are, etc) while Hank wants to react by reassuring himself that his kid is awesome and can handle whatever comes at her.
Probably the direct subject of the argument’s gonna be Becky, because to the mother she’s the immediate cause of the incident that put Joyce in danger, while the father sees her as a victim of the actual offender. Both of them kind of have a point, which means that Joyce’s weekend at home is probably going to be really… loud, and next to impossible to resolve.
“Both of them kind of have a point”. Errr… nah, mate. The immediate cause of the incident was Ross McIntyre, and Carol’s brushing-that-away (which is straight-up victim-blaming-by-proxy; it wasn’t his fault, he was provoked) is just part of why she’s so desperately and completely in the wrong.
The two of them figuring it out… is plausible (can’t wait, it’s gonna be fun), but Hank’s developing-character aside I’m not sure they have the language to process it. Joyce has a healthy amount so having her there is hopefully going to help, but it might come up that she’s developing this thinking thanks to godless heathens like Leslie and Dorothy.
(while I dearly want to see Carol develop and independent and healthy mind, somehow what I really really want to know more about right now is how Hank has become all “Joyce, take the wheel” since their visit. things have changed in this guy.)
Both of them do not have a point. The only reason that Becky was around Joyce for her to be threatened in the first place was that Becky was running from her abusive father and was certain that Joyce was the only one that would not immediately return her to Toedad when she got there. That means that it all was Toedad’s fault. He’s the reason Becky was near Joyce when Ross showed up and pointed a gun at them and he is obviously the reason that a gun was pointed in the first place.
“Bless his soul, but at least he thought he was doing the right thing. Right? I mean, put yourself in his shoes. He’s… he was just worried about his daughter.”
I have to wonder how much of the change we’re seeing in Hank is from hearing her say things like that out loud. And what sort of conversations they’ve had as a result…
So this is what you have children for. I see the appeal.
“Always hated his stupid toe-face.”
I’m beginning to like Mr. Brown more and more.
Which of course means that the train wreck, when it comes, is going to be all the more gruesome and catastrophic.
Teach your children quietly/For someday sons and daughters/Will rise up and fight while we stand still–Mike & The Mechanics
“Joyce you’ve got to do something about Becky. What she’s doing just isn’t right.”
“J-just because she likes girls doesn’t mean what she’s doing isn’t right dad!”
“No I mean her snoring, she’s literally just saying the letter Z and it’s starting to worry me.”
“Z.”
“See?”
I’ll admit, I giggled at this probably more than I should have.
2 internets
Good, gooood.
If you collect enough internets you can trade them in for cool prizes!
(Offer not good after curfew for sectors R or M.)
Nicely done.
This is why Sal won’t sleep with Jason anymore. She couldn’t stand him reciting “Zed” all night.
*snrk*
Becky is apparently Napstablook.
“Oh, I guess I learned to tune it out after a couple of nights.”
“Well I can’t-wait, what?”
That is the kind of thing Becky would do…
When I was a young kid, I learned from comics that you say “Z” when you’re asleep. So whenever I wanted Mom to think I was sleeping, I would close my eyes, lie still on my bed and say “Zzzzz”. I couldn’t understand why she always knew.
That is the best thing.
This only makes me even more confident that Carol’s gonna be much less of a, er, cool parent, and we’re gonna see some drama between Joyce’s parents.
Yup, that’s what I’m bracing for as well.
Well, since we know that Joyce’s parents are based off of Willis’s, and we know that he has no current relationship with his mother due to her being awful, you can turn that into a virtual certainty I’m afraid 🙁
Wow—really?? I didn’t know that . . .
I wonder if his having kids will change that. I’ve seen some pretty disapproving parents suck it up and make up with their kids to get access to the grandchildren. I’m not predicting, though, because I don’t know the situation with Willis.
I think it is just best to let Willis speak for himself on this one:
http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/133847635397/i-dont-talk-to-my-mom-anymore-whenever-we-had
The dude is bringing home Joyce’s homeless lesbian friend who was the cause of the asshole who almost shot up the campus showing up, explicitly approving the friendship, and offering to let her stay the weekend.
There’s going to be a fight with his wife because he’s really, really obviously intentionally starting one.
That’s not to say that it’s not a fight they need to have (he obviously feels they do), but dude is instigating hard. There’s barely even any passive in his passive-aggressive there.
The dude is bringing home Joyce’s childhood best friend who’s just been attacked by her father and left homeless. Which is, quite frankly, the only decent thing for him to do.
It would be slightly different if she was a stranger Joyce had met at college, but it’s Becky, who they’ve known for years.
This isn’t passive-aggressive instigation, this being a decent human being.
Instigation will most likely be a by-product of being a decent human being.
The weird thing here is that I do think you are both right. Yes, Hank is just being a pretty descent human being because he wants to do the right thing.
But I’m thinking he -also- knows pretty damn well what his wife will say about this even as he’s doing it, and he’s prepared for it, and is already planning some of the things he’s going to say.
That could be why he let Joyce drive, to be honest. Give himself time to think out his arguments, predict hers, figure out how to respond to different scenarios. It’ll certainly be interesting.
I’m liking Hank more and more right now.
Allow me to speak for everyone when I say: HA!
Hank: “You know, Joyce, Mr. MacIntyre may look like a Toe, but he’s clearly an Asshole.”
Joyce: Joyceshockedface.png
Hank:“Don’t tell your mom I said that.”
“And sometimes assholes need a fist in their f- You know, I think I’d like to abandon this metaphor now.”
“And that conversation is why your mother and I are kinky…”
After the “take it to God” incident during Parents’ Weekend, I never thought I’d like Hank this much.
Well obviously God wants to punch Toedad too.
There is a God in the Dumbiverse. His name is David Willis. On that basis, I think we can safely say God would * not* approve of Toedad’s behavior.
this comment reminds me of how in this other webcomic goblins one of the players/characters prays to the dm as their god
And yet Kore retains his class features.
what is good depends on the logic behind the actions not nessicarily the actions. After all depending on what is done the only difference between the good and evil might be one pretends to not enjoy what they are doing.
Maybe Kore isn’t praying to Herbert, but to some God of Psychopathy.
It’s kinda implied that the real problem is Joyce’s mom. She was the one who said Toedad was doing what he thought was right, and it’s been implied she doesn’t get along with one of Joyce’s brothers anymore. Hank was the first to accept Dotty after Joyce stood up to them, while her mother was still less than pleased.
I know from his blog that Willis doesn’t have a good relationship with his mother, I wonder how his relationship is with his father.
There does seem to be a preponderance of aggressive “jerk” female characters compared to male ones… But, then, the cast itself is also weighted more female than male, so is that just statistics? I dunno.
Either way, I’d really like it if Carol was actually a nice person too but, if what you say is true and, as Willis has said, Joyce is an autobiographical character to some extent, I ain’t holding my breath.
At the same time, it also feels to me as if the male jerks are far more aggressive with their jerkiness. Maybe it evens out. I’m not quite sure.
I dunno, I don’t think you can really even it out when there’s a qualitative difference in type. You can compare, say, being antisocial with being antisocial, slurs with slurs, assault with assault, but the moment you try comparing being antisocial with assault, you run into trouble.
As the old saying goes, you can fix ten roofs, make a hundred meals, heal a thousand wounds, but if people catch you doing obscene things to just one goat, guess what your nickname’s gonna be.
Is it going to be Really-Likes-Milk?
We do not read the same sayings.
But, yes. I do vaguely recall Willis mentioning that his dad was proud of him for some accidental lewd joke in an early comic, so maybe he’s chill. Is it weird that the comments section’s hive mind plays detective with the cartoonists’ life?
Nice to get a parental approval of punching in the face.
Yay! Approved punching!
This is basically Mike’s mantra for life.
“Cause he believes in love or whatever.”
Keep it up, Mr. Brown. You’re getting ever more appealing.
Hank is proving not to be terrible at all, although with each strip I keep waiting for him to say something dumb. People are complicated, I think that is what I like most about Dumbing of Age
He will. But there’s a difference between terrible and dumb. Dumb can be fixed.
Which is essentially the difference between Mary and Joyce.
I dunno, Mary isn’t dumb, she’s very clever. She just seems to be lacking in empathy.
I get the strangest feeling that Hank and Carol have differing opinions on Ross. (As in they almost certainly do, seeing as the second concern of Carol on last storyline was trying to minimize the asshole’s actions)
This can only lead to drama I’m guessing.
“Your mother thinks he was doing what he thought was best for his daughter. I think you did what we all thought was best for his stupid toe face.”
Man this is a surprisingly cool dad. Trusts the Lord and the Lord saying to trust your daughter. Nice
My esteem for Hank increases.
what with his going on johnny quest like adventures with his brother dean…..
wait wrong hank
See, I like this characterization. I mean when we saw the parents come back the first time for that visit, we saw a side of them that nobody was really a fan of. And yet now, we’re seeing another. It’s not exactly contradictory either. Because at the end of the day, they’re about faith. And that’s not a wrong thing to have. Sure, their reaction to not having faith was a bit…wrong. But the father seems to understand. She IS an adult. She’s entitled to live her own life. And she did help them see a bit, that part of having faith is loving everybody.
It can also mean understanding when people have taken that faith too far, much like Becky’s father did.
He’s got faith in Joyce, too.
Yes Hank, it’s okay.
Man, I did not give Hank enough credit when he first showed up. I thought he was going to say the same shit that Carol did at the end of last storyline, but here he is being all decent and likable and shit.
I mean, he’s probably going to fuck up down the line because who hasn’t fucked up at least a bit in this comic, but for now he is officially Cool in My Book.
Holy crap a decent father in a DoA who isn’t a insane jackass.
Ehh, seen it.
Joyce with wrist brace: “Do you love it? I love it. I got it at Ross!”
Nice.
I laughed out loud at this and then unsuccessfully tried to explain it to my cats.
Hank, can I be the one to buy you a beer and then thank you for not being a total dick-dad?
Well, maybe a root beer – he may be cooler than Carol, but still…
He’ll be the designated driver so everybody gets home safe. Good guy Hank.
Imagine that, a parent finding absolutely no excuses for the person who POINTED a GUN at his DAUGHTER. One would think that that would be EVERY parent’s reaction.
Well, obviously that wasn’t the case with Becky’s dad.
Or indeed, with Carol “He Was Doing What He Thought Was The Right Thing” Brown.
*wipes a tear away* I’m so proud of you both.
Eek. His heart’s in the right place, but Joyce’s face is telling me he picked a bad time to be this flippant.
Either that or she really, really didn’t expect him to approve. It’s pretty strongly implied from the way her voice got softer when saying that she punched Toedad. I mean, the flippancy thing could also be right, as well. Joyce could just be saying it softly because she’s reliving the memory, or something.
It’s the same thing as the money from Sarah for swearing. Joyce feels that she behaved badly, albeit under stress and with other mitigating factors. The good Christian thing would be to repent of her wicked ways, be chastised and maybe punished. Instead she’s being rewarded, implicitly encouraged to do more of the same, by someone she would otherwise look to for guidance. What should be a clear-cut case of good and evil is no just blurred, but outright inverted. Her world is being turned upside-down.
I’m also interested in the backstory of what his and Joyce’s relationship has been like through her life. They seem to have a really excellent relationship. Is he like that with all of his kids? Is he just generally more accepting and practical than their mother? Does their mother resent him/them for having a better relationship than she does with them?
Maybe Hank was the Sal back in his college days.
I’m curious as to Hank’s relationship with Ross. Looking forward to some flashbacks of Mr McIntire being an ass!
But he’s a toe…?
Asstoe?
Brilliant.
Well that’s a lovely mental image.
It’s possible to kick someone and get your toe up their anus. So Toedad’s head can go up his own ass. Asstoe!
Asstoe.
Get on this, Yotomoe
He’s also something of a simpleton and a dope. What I’m saying is he’s an “asymptote”
Ross borrowed Hank’s lawnmower and never returned it
Even worse, instead of changing the oil when he was done he just filled it with soda pop.
Well, that’s better than sod and poop, which is somehow how I initially read that.
The Hank/Carol dynamic is similar to the one my parents have. It’s… complicated.
How it worked for my parents: Both were brought up in authoritarian, abusive households. My father remembers being terrified of his father, to the point that when he got home, all the kids would run and hide, and if his father called one of the kids over, the kid would start crying. Dad vowed he would never be the one the kids are terrified of, and instead opted to let most everything go (even though it still bugged him that us kids were, well, kids, and eventually he’d lose his temper and that made him kind of scary to be around because you never knew when he’d lose it because he’d be laughing and joking one moment and threatening you with violence the next and you didn’t know what set him off).
My mother, on the other hand, internalized a lot more of the authoritarian point of view and wanted the kids to basically be seen and not heard unless she wanted to trot us out like show ponies (by which I mean: any talent we had would be used to show off to neighbours and you’d better not fumble anything or what have you. Kind of hard to explain if you weren’t there but the underlying feeling of love being conditional on being exceptional enough to impress the neighbours and win at the keeping up with the Joneses thing was pretty strong). She didn’t want kids, she wanted little robot dolls that she could dress up and show off whenever she wanted. When it turned out that her kids had opinions and feelings of our own, she clamped down. The more she clamped down, the more distant/reserved we got. The more distant/reserved we got, the more she clamped down. This was especially true for me as she was always trying to make me into a “real girl” and enlist the aid of my sisters to do so. Annnyway, the other thing was that mom really didn’t approve of Dad’s loosy-goosy facade, and felt that kids need a “strong hand” to guide them. With Dad flat-out refusing to play the authoritarian abuser to the best of his ability (he was abusive, even if he tried very hard not to be), my mother became the authortarian and disciplinarian. Sooo then we had this situation there was one set of rules for Mom and one for Dad and both of them were constantly trying to undermine the other.
I think Hank and Carol have a similar phenomenon going on where Hank sees the flaws in how he was brought up and is trying to aim for a more moderate and easygoing approach (whether or not he’ll succeed where my father failed remains to be seen, but he’s trying at least), but Carol does not, which leads to friction between them.
Damn, that is intense. I’m sorry you had to deal with that growing up.
When’s the next character poll coming? Hank for President!
Nah, Dorothy will floor him in a debate.
You kidding? He’d have the Baby Boomer vote down
Hank’s been wanting to stub a toe for some time now.
Joyce’s face there. Just “WUT.”
Mr. Brown is just full of surprises, isn’t he. You go.
I think that Joyce and Becky will survive this trip home just because he has their back. Now, if he can just face Mrs. Brown down, that is.
I can imagine how the conversation with Mrs. Brown will go down exactly.
Joyce:“Mom, there’s something you need to know about college these days.”
Mrs. Brown:“As long as people are still having protective sex with with one partner on their wedding night while at the same time excluding the influences of mind-altering drugs in a safe wholesome environment, I’ll be sound as a pound!”
Oh come on. These guys are Boomers or slightly younger, it looks like. Carol was probably in 70s disco orgies in college before being born again. College has been the Time of Sex and Hair-Clumped Showers for decades.
I just love the look on Joyce’s face in the last panel. Can’t wait to see what he meant by that little statement.
Mind you, I think Becky’s line in the last panel is better.
I think he meant that he has been wanting to punch out Toedad himself, so he is okay with his daughter doing it (for him) herself.
Joyce is just realizing that her dad is human and dislikes other people for his own reasons.
I’m guessing in this case Mr. Brown has known all along what Toedad really was like, but now add on to that – he drew a gun on his own daughter in front of his Joyce, and that just verified that opinion.
I said it before but i really am liking hank so far
At least one of the Brown parents is cool
I was wrong.
This arc ( Joyce goes home ) isnt going to be the torture, I thought it would.
It already seems like novel change of setting.
I should have had more faith in the storytelling of the Creator*.
* in all fairness, torturing his fans is Willis’s hobby.
Just don’t jinx it.
Too late.
Toedad escapes from prison, shoots Hank and Marries Joyce’s newly widowed mother.
Can Willis get worse than that?
I would immediately start looking for the Head Alien’s shadow in the corners of strips.
Shortpacked universe collides with Dumbing of age universe, everything is swallowed by the Soggies, and Dab rules over forevermore.
I’m pretty sure Hank’s last line means he’s wanted to punch Toedad in the face for a long while. Or maybe it’s recent, just from learning that Ross pointed a gun at Joyce.
Don’t know where else to ask this, Willis, but are you going to do anything with “It’s Pregnancy” any more?
Probably the “ask” button on his tumblr or tweeting him would be more effective.
I don’t do Twitter or Tumblr. This comment section is about the only interaction I can find for him.
you mean besides renaming it to “it’s parenting”?
I keep underestimating this man and his perfectly reasonable opinions on the situation.
My theory is that Hank did not like Ross for a long time but he kept his mouth shut because Joyce and Becky were really close and/or it looks bad to start shit in a close-knit religious community
Ross’s wife might’ve also been a big part of the picture.
If Ross’s Wife and Joyce’s Mom were friends, then Hank would probably just play nice with Ross in order to keep the peace.
And of course when two parents hang out, they bring their kids, and those kids play together. So by the time Ross’s wife died the kids were almost grown and had developed a strong friendship of their own.
In fact, if it started with Joyce it’s likely he would’ve just nipped that in the bud early. Like “Dad! I’ve got this new friend! She’s invited me over!”, “Yeah, sorry Joyce. I’m getting a bad vibe from her dad. Maybe see if you can bring her over to our place instead.”
I’m inclined to agree with the both of you.
It’s easy when they both have the same avatar.
Hank did allow butthole dad to take Joyce to Six Flags at some point.
I wonder if he’d even feel comfortable saying that with Becky not asleep. Guessing probably, given the current situation.
Very possible. In that community, you’re encouraged to make all your connections inside the church group, so there’d be a lot of pressure to turn a blind eye to how awful Toedad was and play nice.
I’m quite glad that Toedad has, indeed, a 0% approval rating.
If only.
Wow, Joyce is REALLY focused on the road in that last panel…
Live vicariously through your children’s fists!
This is SO cute. Hank is really racking up some decent dad points here.
My respect for Joyce’s Dad has grown three fold this day.
I’m really liking Hank.
http://i.imgur.com/WcgId43.png
D’aww.
She’d probably get along decently with Lyra, too.
Kudos to Mr. Willis for Joyce’s expression in the final panel. She finally hears her dad approving her actions toward Becky’s dad. Very moving.
I’m trying to compare Joyce’s face in panels #1 and #5. Very little difference in detail but amazing difference in impact. How does he do it?
Considering his response to her having a friend that’s an atheist, I’m rather surprised… pleasantly surprised, mind you.
Is that pride I read in his voice? Well done Joyce’s dad. That’s the correct way to dad.
Now I wonder is he saying he wanted to punch him before or was he wanting to punch him for what he did
Fingers crossed for “both.”
http://i.imgur.com/b8lTkNs.png
Nice! What’s the… context?
Someone wanted Joyce in her dress so I drew Joyce in her dress.
Love it.
…. Aaaaah, fuggit, I smiled.
Yeah I totally chortled.
Awwwww. Becky is out. She kinda is like a cat, isn’t she?
Say it with me Hank: Fuuuuuuudge you Ross!!!
I am feeling so confused about have a not completely awful dad in this comic. I mean, good on ya, Hank, but at the same time this is SO weird.
Dorothy’s dad doesn’t seem to have any problems, and although Dina’s father has yet to speak, we’ve been given no reason to suspect he’s awful.
Are you trying to let down my guard Willis? WELL NICE TRY
Gonna be honest, even though I’m really enjoying what we’re learning of Hank’s character, I’m now more worried than ever about Joyce’s mom. I mean Hank just seems so…chill. And willing to change (in at least his stance on homosexuality given his reaction to Becky). I’m having a bit of difficulty understanding it all. Mainly because my experience was so different. Also, I just thought of something. When he mentioned a few strips ago about warning Carol about Becky’s haircut, did it look to anyone else like he was scared? Given his behavior when Carol was around (that episode during parents weekend) what if he wasn’t acting like he really felt, and he acted like that because he’s actually afraid of his wife?
I don’t think Joyce is sure if that’s a good thing or not
Or she may just be too busy concentrating on driving – which is always a good thing
Jesus is ready to take the wheel, but he can fart around on facebook instead.
I read Joyce’s expression as total surprise/shock. I’d bet she was expecting to get an earful about how violence is wrong and how dare she lay violent hands on a friend of the family. Her mother, over the phone, has already tried to minimize and excuse what Toedad did.
Instead of hearing the same from her father, Joyce is hearing ‘God, I wish I’d been the one to deck that asshole hard enough to sprain my wrist’ and it’s throwing her off.
I knew there was a reason I liked you, Hank.
Okay, so I’m beginning to get the feeling that Ross wasn’t exactly Bank’s favourite person. I’m beginning to wonder if there was a longer, sadder story here than many imagined. Or maybe everyone in the congregation thought that he was an asshole but put up with him for the sake of Becky and her mother.
I meant ‘Hank’ of course. I hate auto-correct.
Even if they were best friends forever and Toedad once saved Hank’s life in the war or whatever… old rectangle face was running around threatening to shoot up the campus where Hank’s _daughter_ lives, man. It doesn’t matter if they swore a binding oath on a stack of bibles to be bros for life and then signed a contract in blood, that friendship is OVER.
There is no amount of religion, assholery, or personal feeling that balances out threatening your children’s lives. Even Blaine probably has it out for Toedad at this point.
One good thing to draw out of this strip — Joyce is still Joyce, more or less, and old habits die hard. Despite having her faith shaken by Becky’s dad, who showed himself to be a religious maniac, a complete jerk, and a total asshole, he’s still a grown-up and Joyce still finds herself unable to refer to him as anything but “Mr. MacIntyre” in panel three.
Well, there is no need to be RUDE about it.
You realize that using someone’s given name is usually a sign of friendship in English-speaking countries, right?
Giving them the honorific “Mr.” is a sign of respect, though.
This is why I’ve adopted Becky’s “butthole dad” to refer to him.
Mrr. I’m Canadian so maybe we’re more informal than Americans, but in Canada, speaking someone’s first name is a sign of rank. You first-name an equal or someone junior to you, you title someone superior to you in rank/prestige/etc.
(depending on the region and generation – at my workplace, everyone’s still on a first-name basis with everyone, from the boss on down, but in military communities, frex, it’s verrrry old-fashioned and if you’re a kid you sir and ma’am everyone who is older than you.)
Norwegian (who immigrated to USA) here, and titles are more or less non-existent in any setting outside the really formal ones (including the military, I assume). Anyone meeting the prime minister would refer to her by her first name within seconds.
Now, some parts of the country, we may occasionally call people by their last names, but it’s always said in such an informal tone, it’s hardly a sign of respect or rank. It’s just that to us, some people just fit their last name better than the first name.
I think it’s mostly a generational thing here in Norway. My grandad would’ve been greeted with Mr. or the Norwegian equivalent; Herr and probably would’ve done so to others. Whereas after my parents became adults the habit had started to wane to the point where it’s nearly non-existent today.
Yeah, you’re probably right. I grew up in the countryside, though; in a valley and family that has always been informal to the extreme. As such, I never remember my grandparents (whom I visited a lot as a kid) being greeted with anything but their first names… Though it may well have happened, of course.
I’m thinking if we were to remove both Becky & Hank’s influence on Joyce, you’d end up with something not unlike Mary. Which makes me feel sorry for Mary and the upbringing she must have faced.
Hank, you’re awesome. And yes, that was a well-deserved punch.
I am hesitantly optimistic here… Like I want to hope that Hank has turned over a new leaf and will be a supportive figure for Joyce again, but he is every bit as brainwashed as she was. This is the man who tried to gaslight when it came to Dorothy, essentially attempting to invalidate her beliefs and tell her to turn to God (Because God would prove them right).
The cynical part of me worries there is a religious intervention waiting for her at home, and Hank will claim Joyce willingly returned home because she was the one driving, or some such BS.
If it helps your cynical parts, Joyce would still be returning home willingly even if she wasn’t the one driving? Plus, if there was a religious intervention of the type I think you’re thinking of, I’d think Hank wouldn’t have let Becky come along.
Not to say Mrs. Brown wouldn’t try something extemporaneously, of course.
I’m feeling cautious here. He seems good, but he was trying to manipulate his daughter into believing a certain way just a few weeks ago.
Still, he may genuinely be trying to learn and change.
…
Call it cautious optimism.
If Joyce returns, and all is still well with him and her, I’ll accept his new outlook.
Being religious and even evangelical don’t necessarily add up to being a bad person. He can be worried about his daughter’s friends and spiritual health and even pushy about it without necessarily crossing the line into being controlling. Family does that, they try to give you advice and tell you what to do, especially parents. It’s kinda their job.
That said, remember that Hank has had almost literally the same storyline as Joyce’s experience at the frat party, albeit the parents’ fears edition instead of the rape edition. Someone who he considered safe because he was part of his community used the faith as an excuse to forcibly abduct his daughter’s friend and put his daughter in actual physical danger, and no one was hurt only by the raw power of luck/provenance intervening at the last possible second: chances are that any inclination he had to assume that Christians are safe to associate with his family and atheists are a risk was just shot to hell in a fairly brutal fashion.
It’s a lot more than just a general self-imposed resolve to try to let go and let Joyce make her own mistakes at this point.
Joyce was able to contact Amazi-girl through Dorothy.
If Joyce had taken Hank’s advice and not been friends with Dorothy, there would have been no heroic chase scene, no car crash, and Ross would have been out of town before the cops were able to catch up. Even with the most optimistic assumptions about Ross’s intentions or Becky’s ability to escape, Joyce’s friendship with Dorothy directly saved Becky from being locked in a car for four hours with the man who just pointed a gun at her.
Assuming some phone conversations during the timeskip to establish shared knowledge of the basic facts of the situation, Hank knows all that. He can see, in retrospect, that his advice would have cut of his daughter from resources she needed, to disastrous result. Meditating on all that, putting the pieces together, it must’ve felt like God slapped him across the face. If he’d told Joyce to skip some first aid course, but she went anyway because Jesus had that whole thing about healing the sick, then later Becky was choking and Joyce saved her with the Heimlich maneuver, that would be the same situation. Well, some random piece of gristle might get more respect than Toedad, but otherwise the same.
I doubt that Hank knows any details about Amazi-Girl or Sal’s role in events. I am sure both of them left without talking to the police and have no wish to do so. Hopefully Joyce and anyone else involved who knows who those mysterious vigilantes are keeps quiet about it.
Awesome dad is awesome.
Damnit, Willis.
Making me like the character more is only going to make the fallout hurt that much more. Grrr….
I am starting to really like Hank and this is making me nervous.
What is he going to do to make me dislike him again? Or perhaps /not/ do when Carol starts up?
I guess displaying basic human decency and being a parent is just so… rare in this comic that I can’t help myself.
“I punched him in the toe. Or maybe the face, I always get those two confused with him.”
OK, I am now convinced, there is actually a reasonable adult in this comic now.
Who knew.
Two reasonable adults. You forgot about Leslie.
I might be prepared to raise that number to three if we see more of the Dean. He was pretty reasonable (if irritated) when we saw him last.
Don’t forget Dorothy’s parents.
Also Dina’s parents.
Hank does love his daugther and he is a papa wolf no doubt about that. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PapaWolf
Carol is pretty stupid while Hank knew that their daugther could have DIED because of Toedad. So understandable he doesn’t like him at all but before that Toedad must have rubbed him in a wrong way since he talks like that. guess he really dislikes him or even hated him for years.
But i may be mistaken. But toedad and Hank are NOT friends at all.
I got that feeling too, about the fact that he might’ve disliked him from quite a while ago. I mean, he’s the ugliest culmination of obnoxiousness you could ever imagine…
Mr. Brown is turning out to be A LOT more supportive and caring than I ever though he’d be. I hope this continues.
Becky IS asleep
I’m getting some serious “Thea’s dad from GWS” vibes from Hank right now.
Also, go Hank! Keep supporting your daughter. This is how you should have been acting back at the fountain; I hope you don’t completely back down once we get to Carol.
(Hank is unexpectedly decent. Jocelyne is on the way, along with probably!John (or Jordan. Jordan was the one they “didn’t see eye-to-eye” with, wasn’t he?). Carol, at last encounter, was mostly a wingnut. Becky has tagged along. Oh, the incoming drama.)
(Also, I’m still struggling to keep Hank and John Brown in my head. The name’s just… wrong.)
Oh, hey. I’ve read Girls Without Slingshots now (well, at least, the last parts. I’m waiting on the new versions for some of the older stuff), so I know what you’re talking about.
But you know that means a divorce, right? And maybe Hank has less money, so Joyce has to get a job.
I’m about 98% sure that the brother seen in the car with Jocelyne is the married one, Jonathan/John.
And John Brown? *sings* John Brown’s body lies a-mould’ring in the grave…
Exactly. You need some John Browns around. In case there are wars over slavery to start.
Yes, but the Hank and John I’m most familiar with are Hank and John Green!
Okay, Joyce, now tell him how Becky had to physically restrain you from curbstomping him into paste while swearing repeatedly and see how he takes that.
So. We see how Hank acts when he’s alone with Joyce, but we also saw before that he’s not likely to disagree with Carol, and that makes me worried…
On that aspect, he reminds me of my own dad. He might be the type to be torn between the two, and if so he’s eventually gonna have to priorize one of them. But since that’ll hurt, he might just stay as passive as possible for as long as possible. I really wonder how it’ll develop and if the similarity to my dad stays.
(fyi : I have a good relationship with my dad, and by actually taking my mom’s side more often than not even when she was unfair, he did put his marriage over his children, because as he says, she’s the one to accompany him every day and for life, and his children have to build their own lives. I feel like in the end he made the right choice, and it even eventually helped my mother soften since she felt validated, but it wasn’t a pleasant road at all.)
Do you think with all this niceness she’ll tell dad about that shitty incident? she’ll get it off her chest and start dealing with it with his help?
I don’t know what she’ll do, but as understanding as he seems, I think he might want to take her out of school if she tells him, whether he puts it into action or not.
I’m liking Hank more and more. Can’t wait for Willis to reveal he’s secretly kinda awful and destroy everyone’s liking of him.
Sigh, Willis giveth and Willis taketh away
Actually, probably going to be the mother that’s horrible, and her parents get a divorce, then Joyce thinks it’s her fault.
Sometimes when you realize you aren’t the person your parents think you are, you end up finding out your parents aren’t the people you think they are, either.
This comments section needs a like button so badly.
Yes. This Dad has good points. I worry about what happens when they get home, but Hank has the appearance of being a good guy who maybe doesn’t know how to influence the more radical people around him and instead remains silent.
God, I’m liking Hank more and more as this storyline goes on.
Okay! I am excited to see what happens next!
The better Hank seems the more on edge I get about this whole situation.
Breathe, breathe!
…and let us live in the illusion that all goes well T___T
<3
Aaaand her dad scores some more points.
Let us see what happens when Mrs.Smith, I think, comes into the picture.
If you mean Hank’s wife, that is Mrs. Brown, who does not realize that she has lovely daughters.
Y’know, it’s just possible that maybe Hank is slowly moving toward the idea that there’s something of a disconnect between calling yourself a Christian and having a list of groups you automatically hate. I certainly don’t expect that he’s going to end up where I did (I was raised Catholic, went to church until I was 21, and have since boiled it down to “Treat people right; don’t be an asshole”), but I think he may be realizing that some people and/or groups may not be as terrible as he’s always been led to believe. “Lesbians are bound for hell, but wait, I’ve known Becky her whole life and she’s a good person. That doesn’t make sense. And her father is a devout Christian, but look at all the felonies he just committed, on top of being just a terrible person. Maybe I need to think about this a little more.”
Personal growth: It’s a thing!
It’s probably also a shock to Hank’s system that Ross pointed a rifle at his daughter and fired that rifle in the air to intimidate and coerce his daughter’s best friend. Imagine the profound emotion that would inspire in a father who loves his daughter before all else.
I mean that this one incident alone may have been enough to spark a massive change; I know my own father’s take on his holy book began to modify when it was my life he was worried for, but that even in vocal struggles prior to that event, he had been oscillating close to his original camp.
Given the feelgood build-up I can only say – given Willis’s MO – that the four horsemen are going to appear pretty soon.
Hang on, there’s someone knocking at the door.
After he shows up all tolerant I was ready to let him back in. Now I hear this and I can’t help myself. Best dad 2016
I think he broke Joyce. She looks stunned and unable to parry for four rounds. Any moment now she’s going to pick up an eye-twitch as all her preconceptions are fed into a chipper-shredder. Then her mother goes and ruins it all.
Kinda odd that he did not notice that Joyce is wearing wrist brace until now.
He’s always wanted to wear a wrist brace, but he’s just never had the courage.
“Nice one, kiddo. The whole congregation has been waiting for someone to take that jerk down for years!”
That shoe is climbing toward the stratosphere.
You, me, and all of us, Hank.
Hank’s come a long way from how he behaved just a few weeks earlier. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/takeittogod/ What makes that scene really uncomfortable is how familiar Joyce seems with the family ritual, implying it’s been a regular part of how Hank has raised his children.
After that, I’m never fully comfortable with Hank around, because we know how horrible he can be. We don’t even know if it’s his lowest point.
I know he said that he’s been rethinking his views a lot since Joyce stood up for Dorothy and he’s certainly been awesome so far in this arc.
In fact, at this point, I wish their car would break down so the three could spend the rest of the arc chilling with waffles at a nearby diner without any drama.
Maybe I’m just having difficulties with how different he seems. I appreciate that he seems to have improved, but I keep expecting a catastrophe to ruin the mood.
I don’t think he seems like a bad person for having a prayer circle in that scene. It would be horrible if you associated expression of religious action with a bad character, instead of looking at what motivates his beliefs and how he fits ritual into expression and growth in the direction of his faith. He also came around to trusting more in Joyce’s perspective via prayer. The prayer circle, to me, can seem like a fundamentalist means of brainwashing and socially coercing Joyce into re-accepting the status quo; it can also be interpreted (and I think this is closer to Hank’s view in that scene) as a joining of hands in fellowship and care, a means of directly expressing love and concern, while in communion with God as well. A way of turning private prayer into a family prayer, if you will. By that logic, Hank’s turn-around isn’t that huge a leap, as it means he incorporated more introspection into an already developed character.
It’s not the prayer circle itself. It’s what he prays. That prayer bothered me, and my family and I do these prayer things fairly often.
He says they’re taking the question to God, but the prayer doesn’t come off as someone asking God for advice. Instead, it comes off as a passive aggressive way to call Joyce a horrible sinner because she disagrees with them. There’s no asking God for what’s right; instead, he conveniently quotes the scripture that aligns with his position. The way the prayer is said, Joyce is being stubborn for not listening to her parents, and they’re asking God to convince her otherwise.
Sure, I don’t think Hank consciously realized that. I think he just didn’t even consider the idea she could be right. In his mind, the only possible answer was that Joyce was wrong to be friends with Dorothy. It was only when Joyce fought back, showing she had Scriptures, too–meaning she had worried about it and taken it to God, too–that he realized he could be wrong–that he was committing the sin of pride (if not also idolotry–putting his own opinon above God’s).
Now, I don’t think there’s any reason to be worried about him regressing back. But I don’t think you can defend that prayer as being anything other than trying to make Joyce do what Hank thought was right.
Supporting this, I’ll also note that the alt text for that strip says “Some of the best praying is done passively aggressively”.
Especially that “Let us not be yoked by unbelievers” line. That’s definitely trying to passive aggressively convince Joyce to fall in line.
Oh yeah, I’m not trying to brush any of the pointed jostling in that scene under the rug.
Just remarking on be nervous versus not nervous of Hank’s personality, vis that scene.
I agree with everything you said. For the very reasons you added, didn’t consider that scene as cause to be concerned per Trolldrool’s post. A lot of my view in that scene hinges on “I don’t think Hank consciously realized that. I think he just didn’t even consider the idea she could be right,” because that makes it a great deal less sinister, adding in the fountain scene and the recent scenes. It’s a human plot device, best way to put it, rather than some darker plot device. Given we all have our foibles, I’m sure more than a handful of commenters have held some perspective which they later found was dead wrong and they grew from (doesn’t have to be homophobia or racism or what have you, could be as benign as not liking the new girl in first grade because you thought she looked stuck-up).
Omg actually I’m going to quote cobragardens from a few comments up: “Sometimes when you realize you aren’t the person your parents think you are, you end up finding out your parents aren’t the people you think they are, either.”
I’ve read every strip so far, and this one is my favorite. 🙂
WHY IS HANK SO GREAT YOU’RE MAKING ME AFRAID WILLIS
Yeah, this is all either building up to him saying something well-meaning but really shitty, or it’s setting up a contrast for Mrs. Brown. Either way, I don’t think the good times are gonna last.
Okay, I’m REALLY REALLY REALLY hoping that, out of those two scenarios, it’s the latter, because if its the first, there’s no telling if Mrs. Brown will be any less terrible.
One time Ross took Hank’s favorite pew in church, and he he has never forgiven him since.
Funny there is a king of the hill episode just about that. Hank was so upset he changed churchs
Dark secrets!!!
More and more impressed by Hank. More and more afraid.
I suddenly love Joyce’s dad.
Everyone else noticed Hank is a hottie, and just doesn’t want to admit it, right?
Joyce is the one who needs the [Internal Screaming] tag now.
Tell us how you really feel, Hank Brown.
I know I jumped the gun before when I said he was the best dad but I think it’s now safe to say that he is the best dad in this comic or at least pretty darn close.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w7E9k9aZ9w&app=desktop
“Backpfeifengesicht”
should have punched his face in joyce! fuck your hand up if you need to!
we all want to live vicariously through your rightous fist
… Whoa. I honestly did NOT see that coming!
I love the shock on Joyce’s face, though. That’s awesome. 😀