It’d be so much funnier if they sacked someplace in the HRE. I mean I don’t really care about the ERE and acknowledge sacking the HRE would be pretty fucking hard (in that you have to convince a bunch of germans to do it), but it’d be so much funnier.
Is it really that big a deal? Especially since Willis has specifically banned such behavior? (well, he’s banned calling attention to it but it’s up to him what he will tolerate…)
Yes, that would be the best use. You need smaller bones for jewelry, which I learned from an amateur taxidermist who wore a bird-wing necklace and a squirrel vertebraecelet.
Billie could also think that Mary was calling her slurs because she’s tall, fairly flat, etc, and that it was just bullying a cis girl for her body, but it’s more likely that she knows- it’s not a huge secret (Mary knows, Sal knows (so, it’s not just huge snoops), Ruth knows (although she may only know because as RA she’s supposed to protect her from Marys), possibly others). If Ruth outed her (that could be why Billie’s ‘what’ was so surprised) I imagine Ruth is going to feel even shittier, but force Billie into her room and deal with Mary very quickly to try and redeem herself.
Isn’t Carla a Sophomore? Maybe she was out to her class a couple semesters into their Freshman year, so none of them are trying to hide it from this year’s class.
It seems like that is the case. Which means she might not be as active about specifically coming out to the new freshmen, because “she’s already out”. And if Ruth is in her second year as RA, that might also mean that she’s been through all the growing pains of that coming out so is even less interested in Mary’s attempt at revivalism than she would normally.
It’s hard to tell in a stylized comic, but so far I’ve been figuring that Carla doesn’t quite “pass” as a cis-lady (mainly because she doesn’t care to), and so anybody can tell if they aren’t super self-centered (not Malaya, probably) and if they’re aware of trans people (not Joyce, yet). Plus she’s not closeted in general.
(I say she’s not closeted because she loudly announced the dong on her door as a hate crime until she got more info. A closeted person wouldn’t have been able to shout that.)
Not only that, but she’s actively doing things that would work against “passing” (and Bob knows I hate that term), such as wearing really short skirts with baggy basketball tops that hide curves. She really doesn’t care if she gets “read”, which is what makes her all the more badass and wonderful. If she’s been hurt before (and I have no doubt she has), she has decided to take all that and say “fuck it” and is just being herself without a care to what assholes think about it.
It’s very Laura Jane Grace and all sorts of awesome.
^this
the first two trans folk I met(that im aware of atleast) when I was a wee boy were like this, unabashed and badass and just straight up who they were. This greatly delayed my understanding for just how hard ppl like the have it in todays society, but alsos gave me a rock solid example of “ypull be a lot happier if you just exist, skaters gonna skate”
Nevermind the fact that I have suplexed several people and committed other acts of violence among people. I haven’t committed the specific violence that I said I would.
No, a clothesline is (usually) a passive attack, where you hold your arm out and let them run into it (there’s also the active version where you actively run into them, but that’s less fun).
A suplex is an active attack, involving lifting your opponent, then falling backward to drop them on their back. There’s a bunch of variants, but that’s the general concept.
I don’t think anyone would lose any sleep at night if you raised that femur count to two, Ruth.
That being said, what she’s doing is very mature and probably the right thing to do in the long run. (Plus it lets her tell Mary to go fuck herself without fear of getting the boot, which is always a plus.)
Agreed on all points, I’m not a big Ruth fan (though my opinion of her has improved since I started reading) but her statements usually do have an undeniable logic to them.
It’s been hinted at God knows how many times throughout the comic. I can’t list all the clues off the top of my head, but it was explicitly stated, more or less, a few strips ago with the whole ‘Boy’s wing’ fiasco.
That Carla is trans was never explicitly stated in the comic until Antagonize on 23 Jan 2016. But there had been several clues. Also, Willis has explicitly said on Tumblr that DoA Carla is trans and asexual.
There’s also Wrong, from Jan 20. Whether this counts as an earlier explicit reference than Antagonize, or the last hint before it’s stated in so many words, seems to vary from reader to reader.
Badness is not a zero sum game, sexual assault and parental kidnapping and homophobia and blackmail are all bad things. I’m just saying, looks like things are going to get worse before they get better.
The Willis giveth and the Willis taketh away, not necessarily in that order. I have faith things will get better.
…Emperor preserve me, what am I saying?!
Maybe it’s just that she takes the floor being “unsafe” seriously when it’s her charges causing the issues, but sees her own as “running a tight fuckin’ ship.”
Technically alcohol is a drug, since it contains ethanol. It’s categorized as a depressant, which means it decreases arousal or stimulation in certain areas of the brain.
My sister starts about half of her sentences with “technically.”
I think that’s largely because she doesn’t know what it means, but the advice works out okay anyway.
Oof, those panels 4 and 5 really hammer home how this incident is not just hitting her hard, but straight up haunting her. She’s always shown signs of the job being something that brings out more caring from her than anything else, but here we see something more of the importance that doing a “good job” (by her definition of it) holds for her. In her own femur-threatening way, she cares about the people on her floor being safe and secure, if not terrified of her and thinks this loud aggressive method is the way to do it.
But failing at that, that cuts at her. Maybe it’s cause her grandpa? likes to whittle at her self-esteem like he did over the phone. Maybe it’s cause it’s one of the few things right now she’s using to hold on, but for whatever reason, she wants to do things more or less okay as she defines it.
And when she walked away from Carla, she didn’t just feel she failed her, but also herself and her standards for herself.
She’s wrong in Panel 1, it’s also about pushing away Billie, but it’s her guilt and high standards for herself and her fear of losing this “one thing” where others have faith in her and believe she is doing a good job despite everything she sees about herself. And so she’s willing to sacrifice the other thing that evokes that feeling.
In her own femur-threatening way, she cares about the people on her floor being safe and secure, if not terrified of her and thinks this loud aggressive method is the way to do it.
No one else is allowed to mistreat anyone on her floor. It’s a territorial thing.
It’s an interesting phenomenon you see with bullies sometimes where they’re perfectly happy terrorizing someone but god help anyone else who tries to pick on their chosen victim(s).
mary’s also gleefully throwing around anti-atheist hate and homophobic insults and uh… well a lot of stuff that makes that floor unsafe.
cleaning up your life because it’s collaterally hurting other people is… a reason. as messed up as this is so far, i’m still hoping for a happy ending for Ruth and Billie both abandoning their self-destruction.
The logical problem I’m seeing here is that, since Ruth cannot alter the past, breaking up with Billie now won’t change anything. Mary can still blackmail her for what she did rather than what she’s currently doing.
^ This. If Ruth “sanitizes” her room, and thus her image, Mary has nothing but her suspicion and possibly gossip, while Ruth has the glue stain on the floor, Carla’s ruined skates and any statements Carla wishes to make about Mary’s behavior.
The only evidence for what Ruth’s been doing, though, is the word of a transbigot. Mary’s not going to be a credible witness by the time Ruth gets started, never mind later.
If shit goes down this weekend… then it goes down while Becky’s out of the picture (Becky’s squatting being the only concrete evidence Mary would be able to provide), and while Joyce is out of the picture (whose reluctant support Mary is no doubt betting on, probably misguidedly—which she doesn’t know). So the only plausible support would be from Sarah, and Sarah’s right now realising how seriously she needs to take Dina’s and Becky’s needs and feelings.
Much as she’s hated, I see everyone on the floor backing Ruth against anything that comes from Mary.
Only if Mary has photographs of them banging or making out. Otherwise, all Mary has is innuendo that can be explained away, given how /short/ the relationship’s been.
Like, let’s say she’s got a couple of pictures. I think it’s a stretch she has a smartphone, but Willis has pointed out her parents aren’t as terrible, so maybe. Either way, she’ll have one picture of Billie coming out of Ruth’s room looking happy. Maybe. Meanwhile, they’ve had how many floor fights? An anomaly is explainable. The reason she’s got blackmail is the assumption that she will keep defiling the cheerleader, as best we know. And heck, maybe Ruth is considering ‘maybe she has hard evidence, but I’m willing to pull the trigger if she can’t keep gathering it’ (I don’t think this is the case, but it’s possible).
Um… I hate to be that guy, but could someone please explain how words make the dorm unsafe? Not trying to condescend; I literally do not understand. Is it because of the damage Mary could do to people’s self-esteem? The risk that she could involve physically violent like-minded people?
Well, I can’t speak for anyone else, but in my case continued transphobia/homophobia would be enough to make me feel no longer safe to live there. It’s similar to how bullying works. I already get sick to my stomach when reading transphobia online. Real life instances tank my self esteem and put me in a horrible mental state. Like wanting to self-harm levels of bad. Once is bad enough, but now that Mary knows she can get away with it I don’t doubt that this will be repeat offense from her.
Casual transphobia and its tolerance communicates that an area does not view you as fully human and will likely not intervene if a situation escalates. It also means things like casual threats or violence are more likely to be occurring. Additionally, it’s part and parcel of overall dehumanization that reinforces institutional inequalities and thus is more likely to negatively impact mental health and make it easier to believe you are worth less and need to “make up” for your identity to be treated as fully human. It also means you will not likely have support if you try and speak up for your humanity or fair and equal treatment and thus are more likely to suffer unequal treatment because individuals who harass or abuse will see the silence as tacit support for their bigotries.
At worst case, it can work in tandem with society to work as a form of bullying and potentially drive an individual to suicide. Trans people in particular are pretty used to constantly being dehumanized in society, but it is still draining and constantly having to put on emotional armor to walk outside and weather nasty stares and the like gets exhausting. If you start needing said emotional armor to even leave your room because the hallway has a lot of slurs and hatred in it, it starts becoming a thing where you actively avoid interacting with others and stay in your room more because that ends up being the only safe place left to recharge.
At its worst, this relentless negative impact can transfer to all interactions and discourage you from any interaction with other human beings because of the spikes of anxiety and depression it causes.
Today’s homework for everyone, including those of us that think we’re pretty knowledgeable/accepting* about the life of a transsexual, but are not in fact a transsexual ourselves: Read this answer 100 times.
*This is actually a pretty stupid phrase in itself, I find. “Accepting” transsexuals. I don’t consider that I (a cis white male) have a right to accept transsexuality; because that implies that I also have the right to -not- accept it. Which might technically be true, but as far as I’m concerned, it’s as weird as talking about accepting heterosexuality, or a human for being a human. Basic decency makes it impossible to not “accept” any of those thing.
I’m trans and literally every one of the commenters here calling for Mary’s head makes me so incredibly sick. So many people are desperate to ENFORCE TRANS ACCEPTANCE BY ANY MEANS that they don’t actually give a shit about how trans people feel it’s just “nope the trans are always right” and it’s always this big shitstorm and people have to make a great big fucking deal about it when all I really want is to be left alone to live my life and not be made anyone else’s pet cause that they can feel self-righteous about for supporting. Like I don’t even give a shit about Mary being a bongo because she was obviously pissed off about the whole stomping around the halls thinig, and yeah she said something totally fucked up, but the way people are acting like she’s Hitler 2.0 is super messed up. There’s way too many creepers commenting on these comics.
Well, then, you’ll be happy to know I won’t treat you as right because you are trans. I don’t agree with pretty much anything you said.
The only thing I can sorta agree with you on is that it can be a bit disheartening to see people talk about wanting to kill people. If that’s what you mean by “want Mary’s head,” and not that she face the consequences for her actions, then I can understand that. But, even then, that doesn’t justify the rest of your post.
Let’s start with the worst stuff and work our way down. You just defended someone for being a bigot because they were angry. That is not EVER acceptable. I can get as pissed at you as I want, but it doesn’t mean I can use a transphobic slur against you, any more than I can call my black friend the n-word because he makes me angry.
You may personally want to just go and be left alone, but you do not speak for every trans person, let along us other minorities. You may be okay with bigotry because you can apparently hide from it, but there are a lot of people who can’t, and still others who aren’t okay with it even though they can. Why do you matter more than them?
You don’t want to be involved? Fine. Don’t be involved. You have every right to do so. But the second you try to shame people for being anti-bigotry, you’ve decided to get involved. And you’ve chosen the side of the people who do not want you to even exist.
The only reason you even have a choice to sit on the sidelines is that there are people out there who will fight for you. The only reason you aren’t in some sort of mental institution is because of these people. Just because things are tolerable for you now doesn’t mean the fight is over.
It’s not over until bigotry is itself a thing of the past.
“I can get as pissed at you as I want, but it doesn’t mean I can use a transphobic slur against you, any more than I can call my black friend the n-word because he makes me angry.”
Why? What does that have to do with anything? The history of the word makes it so forbidden to say in public that it should be a crime to say it? REALLY? I’ve been called some pretty horrible shit and yeah it’s awful but people will continue to have dissenting ideas to the majority of society and if you try to cover them up and tell them NO it’s NOT alright for them to exist then you’d better be ready for some pushback.
“The only reason you even have a choice to sit on the sidelines is that there are people out there who will fight for you.”
How dare you. How fucking DARE you belittle me and my experiences and my activism and all the effort I’ve put into EVERYTHING I am. I’ve fought plenty for myself and for others and I never wanted your twisted self-congratulatory “maybe i’ll get to fuck a tranny if I stick up for them” activism attitude. Fuck you.
fyi transgender is a better term to use, some people have an issue with the term transexual and no on has an issue with transgender, so everyone is happy if we used transgender! Source is me being trans : O
I neglected to save the original strip. Perhaps Mr. Willis will put it out as a collector’s piece, like that postage stamp with the airplane upside down.
I think they need to separate for a while. It’s scary to think that they’re both enabling the alcohol problem on each other, and the suicide pact ain’t any better.
Just see other people. People who don’t have trash bags full of half-empty booze bottles.
Problem is, I get the idea that the suicide pact is the only reason Ruth hasn’t tried to kill herself yet. It’s why she tried to push Billie away last time.
It’s not healthy. Not in the slightest. But she needs something else to keep her going if they’re going to have to actually break up. So she can get to the point where she goes and gets some fracking help.
Because, I know people who used to be depressed. And I know former alcoholics. They can both have that happily ever after if they can get better.
Wait, so it was common knowledge that Carla is trans in the hall, or am I forgetting if it was ever announced? All i remember is Joyce not knowing why she had her own room.
Huh? I don’t understand the comparison. At this point, either it was confidential information that Mary had somehow gotten her hands on (and Ruth shouldn’t have told Billie) or there’s no explanation for why Joyce didn’t ever hear about it.
It’s been asked practically every time Carla’s made an appearance, even though at no time has it been indicated that it’s a secret.
As for why Joyce doesn’t know, she’s been there a month, doesn’t have that kind of social awareness yet, and Carla isn’t expected to walk around handing out flyers to the freshmen detailing her gender identity. It just hasn’t come up.
Seems unlikely. She seems more likely to take Roz making an attempt to expand her mind, or at least keep her opinions to herself as the Hellbound Slut harassing her for being too moral.
Wow. Thanks. Character says “I can’t abide by cissexism” and you choose to cheapen it by pointing out she’s causing personal harm, as though that invalidates the fact that she wants to stop cissexism. Super big thanks here, you’re right, we absolutely need only flawless saints saying “Stop cissexism now,” anyone else would /cheapen/ the message with their failings.
God DAMMIT the collective hateboner some folks have because a character is imperfect has worn bone-fucking thin at this point.
Eh, not a much of a fan of Ruth, but this punchline based on how she doesn’t “really” hurt anybody is, well, silly. It’s a little too lighthearted and whimsy when it’s describing the actions of something as real as an authority figure who abuses their power.
I’d rather she own up to all her bullshit for Carla’s sake. Carla doesn’t deserve to live in an unsafe environment allowed by her RA, but I’m glad at least that Ruth recognizes she’s fucked up. Not really sure where this idea that Ruth being bad at her job suddenly invalidates her guilt over Carla comes from, or that the only way to be a meaningful ally is to be a flawless saint.
Just, y’know, she’s a bit different than “not perfect”. It’d be nice if her biggest problem was “not perfect”.
it does make sense to me that that’s how she justifies it, though: it’s okay to threaten as long as you don’t *really* go through with it. you don’t *really* mean something hurtful if you just say it.
…it doesn’t make sense to me personally but emotional justifications around violence don’t necessary have to make all the logical sense you feel me
I feel ya, I’m just completely unwilling and unable to view that as a good thing.
Besides, she has gone through with it. Numerous times. Unless the last panel is specifically referring to Ruth actually tearing peoples’ bones out and not her abuse, then I don’t know how it makes any sense for Ruth to say “I’ve never actually hurt anybody” when she’s standing in front of her favourite victim.
Where does that idea come from? I dunno, maybe the fact that it’s the actual standard that seems to be required by the commenters? I mean for fuck’s sake. I don’t go on every strip of Amazi-girl knocking over Muggers and complain, and that actually is still harmful (In that it promotes vigilantism, which ends with me and people like me beaten to death, even if what Amazi-girl is doing in the short term is all fine and dandy). I have some measure of sense. Yes, people are often bad. Yes, doing some good doesn’t actually invalidate the harm they do. But the consistent tone in general is “man fuck Ruth she doesn’t care about the harm caused because she causes harm.” Yeah, she causes harm. But she’s trying to prevent systemic harm which hits those worst off.
People hate Ruth because she’s an abuser. Nobody’s asking to be perfect, just, hey, maybe constantly harassing Billie out of a misguided grudge was kinda fucking awful, and acknowledging that she actually has done awful shit doesn’t suddenly remove that she also has issues of her own, but for the life of me I’ve never really put that much stock in the motivations of abusers and am more concerned that they cut their shit out, which Ruth mostly has.
Anyway I can only speak for myself here, but my post was focused on Ruth’s line in the last panel. It’s a good sign, at least, that she recognizes that she fucked up by Carla and feels awful about it, and is trying to make some effort towards that, but her last line about how she’s “proud” about how she’s never actually taken femurs, unless that was meant literally, is just wrong. She has hurt people before, and now, because of her mistakes, Carla is getting hurt.
Please. People have forgiven that, including you. Try something that isn’t a relatively common, and forgiven, trait in the cast if you’re going to search for that.
But you know, this isn’t about LIKING Ruth. This is about letting your hate for her get to the point where anything plausibly important and good that she does, gets overridden by the fact that you hate her, as it is now. There’s a reason I’m now actually fucking angry, rather than distressed. If this were a more minor thing, like someone from another floor hurting her, it’d make sense to just say it’s a territorial thing, and to be this fucking dismissive of her desire to protect Carla from… whatever theoretical minor harm. But in the comic that actually exists, Ruth is talking about a major systemic harm backhanding literally anyone in her dorm. She’s hurt people, but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the harm that she’s trying to prevent for Carla now. Pretending otherwise is just trying to justify your dislike, to the detriment of what she’s trying to do.
“Whatever, stopping cissexism doesn’t matter because you hurt your charges” is a great reason to dislike her, but it’s a fucking ASININE thing to say /about the part where she’s trying to stop the cissexism/. Which is, you know. Now.
Nice point. Suppose that Mary were to deliberately do something good. Actually good. Would our Mary hate keep us from admitting the goodness of her act? (I suspect for many here, it would.)
I mean, even before Ruth’s character development kicked in, it was made clear that there was something up with her. Her depression and attraction to Billie were built up for over two years before we started getting into her head. Even right after flinging Billie into a chair she still tried to offer some advice to Dorothy on what to do about Danny.
Mary isn’t that. She’s basically just been an asshole since day one, and recently graduated to horrible asshole. We’ve never been given any indication that there’s anything more to her, to the point where the somewhat prominent “hiding wrist scars” theory as recently squashed.
As for nice things about Mary, well, she draws okay I guess.
Ruth isn’t “imperfect” she’s a chronic abuser of her charges and disturbingly incompetent at her job which is what has allowed Mary to get into this position of power in the first place. She’s half the reason Carla is stuck in this hostile environment now because Ruth hamstrung her own ability to protect her as an authority figure.
Bull-fucking-shit. What comic are you reading? In the one we actually have, the actual reasons Mary can blackmail her is she hasn’t caught Becky (in spite of the whole floor, including her girlfriend who she trusts) hiding her, and because she’s nailing Billie. Ifs he HAD caught Becky, she might be ‘competent’ but she’d be making life infinitely worse for Becky. So what, we throw Becky under the buss for Ruth?
Nailing Billie isn’t ‘incompetence’ (It’s strictly speaking a possible abuse of power, but not ‘incompetence.) and aside from Ruth not catching Becky, we don’t have a lot to indicate she doesn’t keep order (which is the bulk of her job). Yes, she does it by threatening her charges, and no, that isn’t fucking okay, but in the comic we actually have, 100% of the reason Carla is putting up with cissexist bullshit is fucking Mary. Not ‘omg Ruth isn’t perfect’. Or even ‘omg Ruth is a threatening asshole’.
It’s not Ruth’s fault that Mary is engaging in transphobic bullshit.
It is, however, her responsibility to take it to a higher authority so they can properly discipline Mary, and she ain’t doing that.
She shouldn’t be banging Billie since it’s against the rules of the job she voluntarily signed up for, but eh, that’s not what’s wrong with them. It’s small potatoes in the same way I’d rather Becky be illegally hiding in the dorm rather than following the law and living on the streets, but it’s getting in the way of her fulfilling her responsibilities.
Yes, but to then pretend that the blackmail-ee is the actual problem when they aren’t doing something harmful is fucking bonkers. The problem is the blackmailer, every fucking time. The blackmailer is the one trying to turn something that isn’t harmful into something harmful for someone else. That is blatantly not Ruth’s fault.
And yes, I understand the full chain of problems with someone in power banging one of their charges, and in the real world that basically never leads to the 1-in-a-million or worse where everything is genuinely fucking fine and there isn’t an abuse of power. There’s a reason this is against ethics codes, and it’s a damn good one. None of that matters to whether the 1-in-a-million causes harm itself, though (Although strictly speaking the act of /finding/ happiness in this manner spurs the myths that it’s okay to do this in general, so there’s that. But then, that’s never anyone’s problem, is it?)
I mean, Ruth and Billie’s relationship is harmful, but that’s not really Mary’s concern so it’s not worth bringing up.
And like, I know Ruth isn’t the one actively causing pain, but it’s her inaction that’s allowing it. She has a responsibility to at least notify her bosses, and she’s not doing that because otherwise the rules she’s breaking get blown open. Teachers who looked away from me when I was getting my ass kicked as a kid, or even just stared? I kinda put them on the same level as the ones punching me in the back of the head. Ruth needs to do something, and she isn’t, if only because it’s her job.
And while I could write an entire essay as to why Ruth/Billie has been harmful, it’s ultimately irrelevant to the situation now, as it would be used as blackmail regardless of it being healthy or not.
But isn’t she doing something right now? She’s cleaning up her act so that Mary can’t blackmail her. Without the blackmail, Ruth can stop the shit Mary is doing.
I’m not entirely convinced, but I hadn’t thought of that as I just figured she was trying to cover her own ass so I can buy it. That’s a good interpretation too.
Still, the problem with Mary’s blackmail is that she’s right. Becky’s going to be back in a few days and Billie has all her stuff hidden in Ruth’s room. If Ruth and Billie do lay low for a bit and can build up enough plausible deniability then that lets Ruth report Mary without consequence, but it’s Ruth and Billie so I doubt they’d do anything that sensible.
Uh, the teachers in your past were presumably not under duress. If you would place them as having ‘equal responsibility’ if they were, that’s fucked up. Ruth is under duress. She isn’t responsible for her inaction unless you believe she’s responsible for her duress. Duress tends to permits inaction in a reasonable ethics standard.
And well, regardless of whether you claim you can write an essay, I already listed the problem here – them finding happiness and not being abusive strengthens the myth that it’s what’ll happen and we shouldn’t have those ethics codes. It’s a real harm, but it’s not really germane to whether it makes it Ruth’s fault all of a sudden (tl;dr, no). And them harming themselves is literally nobody else’s business. I didn’t say it wasn’t remotely harmful to them. I said the actual harm anyone should care about is, well, what I just said. And that’s not what anyone ever cares about
I was in elementary school when this happened and you’re asking me to consider if they had problems before doing their jobs in ensuring kids weren’t getting the shit kicked out of them? Hypothetically, if they were, why should I care when their inaction impacted me?
If Ruth is so under duress that she can’t do her job, then she shouldn’t have her fucking job, let alone when that duress pushes her to abuse her charges. Ruth is absolutely responsible for her inaction when her job demands it. If she is incapable of doing her job then she should fucking step down, at the least until her illnesses have been sufficiently addressed to a point where they won’t interfere with her job, which they constantly have.
Please don’t take this as an attack, but I think there a lot of differences and you may be relating the situations too closely.
First, this setting isn’t an elementary school and Ruth isn’t a teacher. She’s herself an abuse victim (at least strongly hinted at, though we haven’t seen her backstory directly) and she’s only a couple years older than her charges. As an RA, she really has very little authority. All she really can do is report people to the actual authorities. The power differential is there, but it’s nothing like that between elementary school kids and their teachers.
Second and probably more importantly, we’re not asking you to consider your abuser’s issues or those of the authority that couldn’t protect you. Nor is anyone saying Carla should understand and forgive Ruth – or that Billie should have for that matter. We’re outside the story. We can look from that vantage point and have empathy for Carla, Billie and Ruth.
Sure, she should step down. She should stop drinking. She should have sought treatment for depression long ago. But she’s an abused, depressed, alcoholic and as a direct result of that she can’t actually make good decisions. I also suspect that if she did step down, she’d be screwing herself for life, because her grandfather isn’t likely to be sympathetic, to say the least.
And by not stepping down she’s screwing everyone on the floor who could be benefiting from an RA who isn’t completely dysfunctional. I sympathize with Ruth but in her current state her position of authority over these students is completely and utterly unacceptable. She’s dangerously unstable and incapable of adequately performing her duties. She is so corrupt that she is being blackmailed into inaction by one of her charges. My sympathy for blackmail victims is proportional to how much sympathy I would have for them if they simply got caught for whatever is being used as blackmail and I have very little sympathy for abusive authority figures getting caught out.
I don’t have any kind of, like, emotional connection to being bullied as a kid. I just brought it up because it’s a situation where an authority figure didn’t do their job and I suffered for it. It sucked and it happened but eh, it was 13 years ago. I appreciate your concern, though.
After that, I guess I’m not sure how to answer the rest. Ruth has a job, she’s not doing that job, her not doing her job has consequences, and she should be fired. I don’t like, actually blame her for having her illnesses or anything, and it’s not her fault she’s suffering from these illnesses on the job, but I just can’t bring myself to care for what she gets out of it when she cocks it up so badly to the point where other people suffer for it. Ideally, Ruth could get help and also continue her job, but that’s not happening.
“I was in elementary school when this happened and you’re asking me to consider if they had problems before doing their jobs in ensuring kids weren’t getting the shit kicked out of them? Hypothetically, if they were, why should I care when their inaction impacted me?”
That isn’t what I said, even remotely, actually. I mean, it doesn’t really matter to how you feel about it, but it does matter to how blame is, and should, be assigned, at least by literally everyone else. In bringing up your teachers, you attempted to be going for the latter, so unfortunately, I phrased my response the same damn way, but I suppose it could have stood more words pointing out that it doesn’t really mean anything to how you ‘should’ feel about them. But nonetheless, as far as blame for literally everyone but the victim? Including you, vis-a-vis Carla? (I remind you that if either of us is the victim, it’s me, wrt her) Yeah. No. People under duress don’t share that.
“Well, she should fucking leave”. It just fucking happened. Good god, should she have used timelord powers to foresee and prevent this? I don’t think she realized what the blackmail was going tod o on the spot and thought she’d just self-destructively barrel on through it (Certainly, this was my expectation of what she’d do, and I had some despair over it).
“My sympathy for blackmail victims is proportional to how much sympathy I would have for them if they simply got caught for whatever is being used as blackmail and I have very little sympathy for abusive authority figures getting caught out.”
See, as an old hag, I’m starting to understand why the elderly hate the yoofs. She isn’t being caught for being an ‘abusive authority figure’. She is being caught for banging her girlfriend, and NOT catching the gay girl. Did you forget that part? The part where the lesbian would have to sleep under a bridge if Ruth were doing her job to Mary’s satisfaction? For fuck’s fucking sake. Mary can’t, and isn’t threatening, to reveal that Ruth is mean and overly violent. So by your own fucking standard, you should have some sympathy for Ruth. But frankly, that isn’t what I fucking want out of the commenters. I want them to stop pretending Ruth’s violence is the problem that is part of why she’s being blackmailed in any meaningful sense.
Opposing cissexism, heterosexism, and the like, is always, ALWAYS fucking important. EVEN WHEN THE VICTIM IS A HORRIBLE HUMAN BEING. You are NOT supposed to be perfect, but even if you are the actual worst, the systemic abuse doesn’t stop at you. It isn’t actually okay to contextualize Mary as a horrible harpy. Carla is still a woman, even if she’s an annoying asshole. And even though she’s a violent asshole, Ruth’s problem isn’t supposed to be her girlfriend*
*I mean, to the administration, yeah. Like I said, that’s not okay for good reasons for ethics codes. But we’re third party viewers who can clearly see there isn’t coercion in their relationship (If anything, the coercion was when they didn’t have it). It doesn’t really matter to real life rules, but ethics? Yeah, our increased knowledge as third parties matters.
Also, I think Ruth might be trying to set things up to end this blackmail early… not sure Billie is gonna be 100% on board, especially since she’s got a fantasy idea in her head on the seductiveness of having this clandestine affair where she’s literally saving her love’s life, which involves a lot more contact and a lot less having to stay apart and lay low as part of actually avoiding detection… especially since she’s using this relationship to mass spam the snooze button on her own depression spiral.
Here’s a good demonstration of how an abusive background can belie a compassionate heart- Ruth genuinely wants to protect the people on her floor, and is ashamed that she’s been cowed into silence by Mary. But at the same time, she knows her natural response- violence or the threat thereof- isn’t merited, and she has no idea how to handle it.
I imagine this will be where the rest of the cast starts to get involved, and Ruth and Billie learn a valuable lesson about friendship or whatever.
Ruth and Billie should really call Mary’s bluff. And if Mary isn’t bluffing, let her know that her life at school will be a living hell if she follows through.
At some point, Mary is going to back down, especially once she realizes that the rest of the floor is going to back Ruth and be against her. A full year or two of being hated and ostracized is not as much fun as it sounds, just take it from Sarah.
Sadly, she’d probably sign up for it just for the chance to act all martyred… I mean, she’ll whine and complain once it’s actually happening, but she only needs that initial step to fuck over some lives.
That sounds really shitty and I hope this never happens. Take it from someone who’s been through that shit. It makes you feel like you’re less than dirt and there’s nothing you can do to fix it. I had my parents with me to help me through most of high school, and as much I don’t like what Mary did I don’t wanna’ see someone who’s miles from home and without any friends go through that stuff.
Mary is an adult and needs to learn how to quit being a musical instrument if she wants to be not ostracized by her peers. We turn into huge jerkholes in our teens for a reason; and, even though kids aren’t finished maturing until their late 20s, we have a social expectation of adulthood at 18, so they need to adapt to that, even if the lessons suck.
The only times I have not liked Ruth is when she made her moves on Billie and when she backed down from Mary.
I’m glad she’s standing up to the fact that that ain’t gonna get it: Mary has no right to treat people the way she does. And as RA it’s up to Ruth to stop it.
Billie is okay, she can pull on her big girl pants when she has too.
This may be best thing that’s happened to the two of them yet.
Wonder if Ruth was throwing away the half full bottle of booze – trying to quit again? Billie is no help in that respect. AA guys.
Loved the hovertext tonight. As Ruthless as Ruth is, I’ve always suspected her bark is worse than her bite.
You didn’t dislike her back before we knew she had any reason to be the way she was, and she came off just like a violent psychopath and possibly a villain?
Ok, here’s a question… how does this impact Becky? She’s been staying in Billie’s room, but if Ruth is calling off their relationship, Billie will have to move back. So Becky can either: Stay in Billie’s room on the floor (quite inconvenient for everyone), stay with Joyce (awkward given Becky’s feelings), stay with Dina (although they may not be at that point in their relationship), or perhaps reach out to Joyce’s gender studies teacher for advice.
I’m betting money she moves in with the teacher. She can’t stay in the dorm forever, and the teacher already wants to be helpful. Bonus points if, after that, Becky somehow ends up with said teacher romantically
I can almost see this turning out like an 80s style sitcom episode…
Billie movies back to her room while Becky is away. Billie is sound asleep when Becky gets back. She climbs into bed without noticing Billie is in there. Lots of misunderstandings happen.
Can someone give me a list of the times that Ruth has actually attacked someone? I can think of Billie (which she could justify as her being a willing participant), and Blayne. Did she also attack someone else?
Because I think Ruth is trying to say here that her threats are all bluffs to keep people in line. And I think she probably does tell herself that.
Not sure if this counts as an ‘assault’ but she did throw Joyce’s gloves out the window. So that is destruction of private property. (And not sure how Ruth would have gotten the gloves in the first place.)
Let’s see, she flipped Billie. She tried to physically strike Billie. She stole Billie’s shirt and damaged it. She *did* strike Mary. And, several cases of manhandling residents.
This is on top of simply delivering repeated threats, which should be enough to get her ousted as an RA on its own.
You’ve said “Ruth tried to physically strike Billie” a few times so far on this page while invoking the time Amazi-Girl separated them, so I’m starting to think you’re recalling this old sequence a little backwards:
Y’see, Mary’s made a classic blunder. She assumes that she’s safe because Ruth can’t do anything to report her. Setting aside that Ruth will probably reach a point where she considers sacrificing her job worth it, it doesn’t apply to anybody else in the dorm.
Her roommate, for example, is not the least bit shy about speaking her mind, and isn’t likely to regard Carla as an acceptable loss.
Provoking a fight, in many jurisdictions, strips self-defense as a justification for the beating you provide. I don’t know or care whether it does in Indiana – whether the law catches up to ethics doesn’t change ethics. I like Ruth, but I wouldn’t call that her not being violent. Am I misreading her, and she /isn’t/ trying to get Billie to swing first? It’s plausible she wasn’t, given her characterization, but it’s sure as hell how it looked to me.
Hardly matters, since the fight started when Ruth clotheslined Billie completely unprovoked (segnosaur’s link below – and, just for completeness, Billie was running in the hallway because she was late for class, not to confront Ruth.)
Assuming that hadn’t happened, though, the idea that constitutionally something you say, alone, can legally strip you of the right to self defense is a dangerous one, and one I suspect would be subject to strict scrutiny vs the constitutional right to free speech.
Constitutionally, “fighting words” are in fact an unprotected category, though the context is slightly different and I don’t think the Supreme Court has ruled on how they relate to self-defense rather than arresting people for using them.
Legal issues aside, the idea that taunting someone into taking a swing at you, then claiming self-defense when you pound them into the ground strikes me as crappy as hell. Reminds me of school bullies who’d get their victims in trouble by pushing victims to the snapping point just when a teacher arrived.
I don’t think what she said in that scene was “fighting words” in the sense that nothing she said would incite a reasonable person without the context of her having stolen Billie’s cheerleader uniform and got away with it (which would be separate charges) to violence.
To my knowledge, nothing can strip you of a right to self-defense under US law, but it does potentially eliminate culpability on the part of the other person and, in turn, can get you charged for incitement. In other words, you’re not charged for any violence (as long as it’s only as much as is necessary to ensure your survival) but you will be charged for inciting the other person to violence to begin with.
Varies by state, naturally. The US is pretty uneven about this stuff.
Well, is she permitted to stop a student with physical force? If so, the clothesline isn’t really starting a fight.
But that’s completely asinine. You don’t have a right to unlimited speech. The idea that you should be able to beat people just by getting them to throw the first punch, when that’s your goal, is complete lunacy. If you provoke a fight, whether by words, or actions, you shouldn’t have the protection of the law for fighting back. Being provoked isn’t, and shouldn’t be, a mitigating factor for assault, but that doesn’t change one bit whether self defense is what it is.
I mean, do you even know what self defense *IS*? It’s literally a defense of justification. “Yes, fighting is wrong, but under the circumstances, I am justified, because I was protecting myself or someone else from harm, and this fighting was a necessary or reasonable step to make.” You aren’t protecting yourself when you start the fight. You’re hurting someone, you’re just trying to do it in a legal way.
Basically, if you ever find yourself ‘defending free speech’ when you aren’t being prevented from saying something, you’re probably saying something fucking stupid and need to reconsider your fucking stance.
There’s a vast gulf between “anything that absolutely any of the seven billion people in the world (some of whom are pretty stupid themselves) might want to hit someone for saying” and “probably something fucking stupid”.
What if we were having this argument in person and you decided to hit me for this comment? Should I have no right to self defense in that case? What if it were the other way around?
If you’re going to say that “ethically” there is some kind of provocation that means you don’t have the moral right to defend yourself against physical attack, you absolutely have to provide a better definition of provocation than “anything that makes someone feel like hitting you”.
In other words, “It’s hard to prove, so it should never be allowed to strip a defense”. Even when it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt (a high standard, to be sure), it /still/ doesn’t matter. Good gods.
If the prosecutor can’t show, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you were trying to provoke someone, /that starting the fight was your goal/, it’s rather a problem that takes care of itself. You know, the idea I used out of hand. It’s the specific thing I imputed to Ruth. But no, build up your little fake definition I didn’t use of ‘a thing that makes someone feel like hitting you’. That’s totally what anyone’s said in the history of ever.
I’m not actually sure she IS allowed to use force to restrain someone. Even if she was, I’m pretty sure clothes-lining them definitely wouldn’t be on the list of acceptable methods.
“The idea that you should be able to beat people just by getting them to throw the first punch,” The problem is in defining by what standard your words are judged to be an attempt to get them to throw the first punch.
The cans of worms that letting the standard be “anything that someone in fact punches you after you say” with no other limitations are so obvious I didn’t think I needed to spell it out – you’re basically saying anyone can punch anyone for any reason, as long as that reason includes words, no matter what those words are. For example, that Mary could have punched Carla for the “I could not” remark, and Carla would have no right to self defense.
Well yeah, because that would be completely stupid approach. On the other hand so is: “It doesn’t matter at all what you say”, which is a lot closer to your original post.
Once we’ve disposed of the strawman extremes, can we agree that it’s possible, but doesn’t apply in this case anyway, since Ruth started the whole damn thing by stealing her clothes and clotheslining her in the hall?
No, I didn’t say that. You said that. I didn’t say anything /like/ that. I’m not sure where you got it, besides your own head. Christ almighty, Frozen peaches rot people’s fucking brains.
I gave the baseline standard immediately – anything you say or do for the express purpose of starting a fight. It’s really fucking hard to demonstrate that in the criminal law, but if it can be, your justification is (in some jurisdictions) and should be, toast. I am totally okay with it being hard to prove too. The thing is, I’m also talking to the omniscient creator god of the comic. This is someone who CAN answer that question, more or less beyond a reasonable doubt (Probably won’t, but CAN).
As for “Well, is she permitted to stop a student with physical force?” that’s so far from reasonable it didn’t even occur to me as something you might think. I don’t even think the university is permitted to authorize people to use physical force in the way that Ruth does.
No Ruth, you can’t let the Mary the dictator want-a-be win! You find out what Mary’s kryptonite is an use it to threaten her with mutually assure destruction. “It’s a moral imperative.” (Just rewatched “Real Genius”)
And besides, breaking off with Billie doesn’t change anything. Mary can still threaten to expose that the relationship happened.
Plausible deniability with the “it totally did happen!” thing, though. Ruth and Billie can clean up the evidence and then just lie through their teeth unless Mary has tangible proof of her own.
The problem is that Ruth is also a horrible RA. It’s one thing to get a reputation for being hard-line and ready with the consequences. It’s another thing to physically assault residents and damage their property.
Quite frankly, Ruth shouldn’t have lasted this long and anybody finding that Mary has some kind of Ruth-shield can easily report Ruth for the aforementioned physical assault and damage to property, thus getting a new RA that Mary doesn’t have shields against.
I really do think the Students on the floor would rather get rid of Mary than of Ruth.
Yeah, Ruth made a big show of intimidation, but the only one who’s property she damaged was Billie, when she visibly fought with someone, it was either Billie who confronted her or Toedad (which rather makes her a hero as things stand). And than there was the slap to Mary’s face – which astonishingly, Mary didn’t report. Obviously, she didn’t think that would work out as she wants.
Ruth knows she is not a really good RA (are the introductory courses to the job really as useless as they seem from what she mentions?). She doesn’t want to be bothered with bullshit (thefore she drags everyone to the floor meeting to get it over withn once) but she is protective of the people under her care.
The reaction of her grandfather to her losing the job or leaving it would probably break her, he already does without having a tangible reason to do so.
Property damage-wise, she also chucked Joyce’s mittens out the window. Shitty of her, but petty and easily fixed. I think the floor would rather keep Ruth and get rid of Mary, but we’ll have to wait and see. Some of them might be happy to remove both.
Ruth tried to stop Blaine from chasing after Amber, and was going to look up to see if he was allowed on campus during the family weekend before he charged at her.
Also, is the problem here that Ruth is dating one of the students that she’s in charge of? Because she’s the only one in the room so it isnt as if someone is gonna complain that they have to share a space with a constant guest. And the RA I used to have was dating a student, too, and they got married after they graduated. He just wasnt in her hall. Or ia it more a problem because of the underage drinking? Im just not seeing why an RA cant end up dating someone in her hall.
It’s generally against the rules, due to the inherit power imbalance and the favoritism that comes with this kind of relationship. Some schools allow it if you don’t keep it a secret (which they have) and some have zero tolerance. Moreover, a lot of schools say that drinking in dorms is specifically against the rules, even if all participants are over 21 (they aren’t). So this is a bad situation to be in if someone knows you’re doing all of this and doesn’t like you.
I believe this was explained in the comments with the last comic.
In general, there are rules against people in an authority position dating people underneath them. (Teachers dating students, bosses dating secretaries, etc.) There are a couple of reasons for this:
– It prevents the possibility that the authority was blackmailing the other person (i.e. if you don’t date me I’ll give you a failing grade/fire you/etc.)
– It prevents the person in authority from favoritism (i.e. I’ll ignore that they’re late for work.)
Ruth is an R.A., and thus has a certain amount of authority over Billie. Even though Billie appears to be a willing participant, the rules have to be enforced universally
No, you nailed it on the head. She’s involved with a student under her care, it probably wouldn’t matter if they weren’t on the same floor of the same dorm, but they are so it matters.
AND they’re drinking underage, on campus, in a dorm, and procuring the alcohol and providing it to each other. All four would be enough to get them kicked out of university, the first and last in the list could get them arrested as well.
AND having sex in the dorm, which was a violation of the rules at Indiana University last I knew (but that was ten-ish years ago, so maybe that’s changed… but I doubt it).
My university didn’t care about ANY of this, but my university was in Scotland, not Indiana. I grew up in Indiana and took a class at IU and had many friends attend there and did quite a bit of research there professionally… that institution cares about ALL of this.
I’m not sure if there is a rule against sex in dorms (how could you even enforce it?). But if there is, its probably not enforced.
Remember, Roz actually videoed herself having sex in Joe’s room, and we know the University knew about it (the Dean made a comment about it), and last we heard nothing happened to Joe, even though it was his room.
Rules that are usually not applied are a bongo. Because they are still there and used if they want to get rid of someone and find no other reason to do so.
But really, there are rules against having sex in the dorms at American Universities?
Are there still there from before the students revolution or were they re-introduced in these years of backlash?
The things I learn here are incredible.
In Germany, dorms are often not on-campus and everyone has single rooms (though studentens might share a kitchen and bathroom facilities in groups between 4 and 20 or so). They are rented by people from different universities (Berlin has three mayor and dozens of minor universities), and house rules don’t really differ from renting a place anywhere else. Forbidding alcohol or sex are not done. There is no such thing as an RA.
That said, I’m talking about publicly-funded dorms provided by “studentenwerk”, which is a not-for-profit organization providing dorms, cafeterias, and counselling. Part of every students student fees are going there.
I suspect that other dorms provided by organizations related to churches may exist and they may have different organization and rules, but they are uncommon.
I think there’s an idea that 18/19-year-old college freshmen are basically overgrown children rather than being real adults, and that colleges try to act as much like “parents” as they can get away within their actual legal role as the landlord of an adult. This is, for another example, why they’re arbitrarily forbidden from getting parking passes (as discussed a few days ago in the context of why no-one seems to have a car).
There’s no rules against having sex in your room at IU, and probably not at most other secular US universities! The only reason Ruth is not supposed to have sex with Billie is because Ruth is the RA of the floor where Billie lives, and RA’s aren’t supposed to have sex or romantic relationships with people who thry have jurisdiction over, for the same reason teachers and teaching assistants aren’t supposed to have sex with students they teach.
This could all be solved by Billie putting in for a room change to a different dorm. The ONLY actual issue (that Mary knows of) is that Ruth is dating a student IN he dorm she oversees. Move Billie to a new dorm and there is no longer a problem.
well that would leave Beckie in a bad spot. Does Roz live on another floor? She strikes me as the type to to do an in name only room swap, especially if she were to find out all the crap Mary is pulling.
All the main girls are in this hall. All the main guys are in the same hall as each other, too. (Actually, I’m not 100% on that second one, but 99% is pretty good. >_>)
Am I the only one who noticed (fairly recently) that there’s another girl who doesn’t have a roommate?
What if, after going to shit much trouble to defend Carla, Ruth gets her to take in Becky? Heck, I could see it being done officially–the girl who has just had her dad kidnap her and almost start a shooting gets to say on the same floor with her best friend, since there happened to be a room available. The school year has really just started, so they let her enroll and let her catch up.
The college would look much better in the paper for doing that rather than kicking her out. Leslie can be the one who convinces them. (Maybe with Roz helping, for delicious irony. I think finding out what she’s been doing for Becky might help turn her around.)
Of course, this resolves a lot of things, so I doubt it will happen. At least, not any time soon. But just keeping her in the room in secret could still work.
Of course, the baffling thing is that their decision is to break up instead of just having Billie move somewhere else. Is this one floor of this one dorm literally the only place available?
Moving to a different dorm wasn’t that hard when I was in college, if you wanted to.
You have to admit, she is trying to do the right thing for the students on her floor.
Me, I think the problem is the fact that her and Billie being together IS a problem. Our RA in the dorms had a girlfriend who stayed with him all the time and it Wasn’t. A. Problem. (she was a student from a completely different dorm.)
If the administration was tolerant of Billie and Ruth being together her relationship wouldn’t tie her hands from giving Mary the smackdown she most truly deserves.
You know what would resolve the blackmail, actually be the appropriate action, and will never happen?
Ruth resigning, confessing she broke probably the biggest rule of being an R.A., and reporting Mary’s behavior to the school disciplinary board or whatever.
She’s completely compromised herself in her job and has opened up the school to multi-million dollar lawsuits should anything happen to Mary that can even be construed as having happened with the foreknowledge/consent/participation of a university employee. Frankly, Carla could sue the school RIGHT NOW for emotional damages because she knows Ruth intentionally didn’t intervene to stop harassment. Heck, anything happening involving Becky could be an unmitigated legal disaster.
It’s not like she would be expelled for her relationship with Billie if she resigned and confessed, and Billie’s completely clean (aside from the drinking, for which there’s probably no physical evidence). Really, they could arguably pursue a happier relationship in the open.
No job, no college and no place to stay. Going home means giving up her girlfriend. Her girlfriend, after being involved in yet another scandal, would probably be expelled or pulled out of school. Carla is not going to sue the school, but something does need to be done about Mary. Something that won’t throw away the last few years of Ruth’s life. A more proporionate response.
I’m with tony. Ruth’s put the school in a really litigious place with how she’s handling Mary’s hate crime. From some quick googling, and feel free to correct me because I looked for all of thirty seconds, Ruth would just be fired for dating a student in her dorm specifically, and Billie would maybe get a stern talking to.
So unless I’m misreading you, the “something that must be done” about Mary kinda reads as, well, illegal. For all of Ruth’s failures, intentionally harming a student for knowing (blackmail, to put it charitably, as the heads might take it) about her rule violations seems like it’d be a great way for the school to get sued into oblivion, as they already could when Ruth didn’t report Mary’s hate crime.
I think that would be a good idea to, for the simple reason that even without Mary, Ruth does a really bad job being an RA.
She could take another job (“welcome to Galassos’. Order within a minute or I’ll put your head on a pike by the coat rack”) to keep her floating and she and Billie could spend less time sneaking around and more time on epic hatefucks.
It’s really difficult to judge certain things because the comic blurs the line between cartoon slapstick violence and real world violence.
I feel like it’s worth noting that Ruth’s threats do, by and large, come down to being all talk. She is capable of backing those threats up, though. The only people she’s ever laid a hand on are Billie, Mary, and Amber’s dad(unless I missed something in the archives). Two of those people, Billie and Amber’s dad’s, instigated the confrontations. After that initial confrontation, the antics between Billie and Ruth take on a very Tom and Jerry, Sylvester and Tweety, or Roadrunner and Coyote(Pick your favorite) tone that’s hard to take seriously. Amber’s dad made himself a threat and Ruth responded.
Ruth has picked intimidation as her method of keeping people in line. Not the best method, I admit, but effective. Especially with freshman who are going to see her as being a pushover authority figure they can safely ignore. Like Sarah did on day 1. It’s clear she does take her job seriously, though. She’s the first person to go check on Amber on parent’s day. She is concerned for Joyce after the incident with Toedad. And here she knows and regrets that she failed Carla. And it’s not really for her own sake that she is worried about Mary. I’d be willing to bet that most physical altercations Ruth has been involved in were instigated by the other party. The only exception we have is when Ruth slaps Mary. But that’s similarly treated as slapstick. Heh, pun intended.
So for her many faults, I don’t think the “crazed bully” label everyone seems quick to paint her with is entirely warranted.
Except at the beginning of the strip, where the only reason she didn’t physically strike Billie was the timely intervention of Amazigirl. That and stealing and deliberately damaging someone else’s property.
The point is clearly made. Ruth *is* a part of the reason that this floor is so unsafe. She was a part of that before Mary found out and would have been regardless.
And, no, being slightly less prone to physical assault doesn’t erase the past or put it fully in the past. She didn’t exactly announce to everybody that, no, physical assault and damage to personal property would no longer be her chosen methodology
So, yes, “bully” applies.
The only real question, on that front, is why Carla would have expected anything better out of Ruth, who should have been fired a long time ago.
Seriously, with the way Ruth runs the place, relying upon intimidation and a credible threat of physical violence, Carla should go ahead and report her, get her replaced, thus taking away Mary’s shield. She *was* there when Mary made the threat.
Reminder for readers: as noted above, this post got the dynamic of the scene completely backwards. Amazi-girl stopped Billie from physically striking Ruth. And in that first scene between them, Billie threw the first punch.
I make no comment on the quality of the rest of it, I just note that the base understanding of what Ruth has done has been stated incorrectly.
Although long before Amazi-girl got involved, Ruth threw the first punch (or clothesline) when she hit Billie when she was running down the hall. (This in turn lead to Billie trying to fight back, and Amazi-girl getting involved.)
It strikes me as dubious to say “physically stopping someone from running” is “throwing a punch”, unless she isn’t actually permitted to do so (and she very well might not be).
I dunno, it knocks the wind out of her, knocks off her glasses, and floors her. Thats more that just a regular clothesline, she put some effort into that.
So the implication is what? Because it’s technically not a punch, it’s not an intentional act of violence? Sorry, but that just comes across as pedantic. Ruth extended her arm so that Billie would run into it with sufficient force to drop her to her knees. The only difference is that it’s Billie’s own speed that determines the force. By that logic, I could argue that Mary destroying Carla’s skates and causing her to fall wasn’t an act of violence, just deliberate destruction of property.
No? the implication is “If this is violence she’s actually, factually permitted to do, there isn’t a problem.” I don’t mean “violence she’ll get away with”, I mean “actually permitted to do.”
I’m pretty sure that, even if physically restraining someone from running is within the scope of things Ruth is allowed to do – and I don’t think it is – accomplishing it by clotheslining them is still well over the line. That sort of maneuver could easily hurt Billie more than just punching her.
Plus, in that first scene between them, Ruth actively goaded Billie into hitting her, citing the fact that everyone would be watching her if she backed down.
You know, like a bully would.
Plus, she is good at fighting. She knew Billie wouldn’t connect, and goaded her so she would have an excuse to flip Billie and bust a chair with her own momentum. Not exactly a heroic thing to do.
Everyone acts like Mike is some sort of trickster mentor, saying horrible things to help the other characters grow, but what if it turned out that Mary, didn’t actually believe anything she said and was instead helping Carla, Billie and Ruth to grow by giving them a common enemy and teaching Ruth the dangers of her actions.
My children, you have come to me, my daughters. For who now is your mother if it is not me? I am the well spring, from which you flow. When I am gone, you will have never been. What would your world be, without me? My daughters.
* The only people she’s ever laid a hand on are Billie, Mary, and Amber’s dad(unless I missed something in the archives). Two of those people, Billie and Amber’s dad’s, instigated the confrontations.
In other comments, it has also been pointed out that:
– Ruth physically dragged Sarah to a floor meeting (pretty sure she didn’t have the authority to do that)
– Pulled Dina from an elevator
– Threw Joyce’s gloves out of the window
As for Billie initiating the confrontation, she did attempt to throw the first punch (after some goading by Ruth)… however, after that she was regularly bullied, was forcefully kissed, and had Ruth break in to her room and steal her stuff.
* It’s clear she does take her job seriously, though.
Actually, its not really clear at all. While sometimes she shows some initiative, there are also times when she’s been absent from her duties. (Remember, one time when talking to Amber, she stated “my door is always open… except when its not. Which is always”.)
About that last part: to be fair, she did end up talking to Amber, and instead of giving a platitude laden speech she recognized that Amber probably did not feel too bad about her dad getting his ass kicked.
Gonna get all technical here, but sociopathy and psychopathy, despite being defunct terms, are different things. Now, anti-social personality disorder (ASPD) is a spectrum, rather than one category or the other, but the old categorizations did have distinctions.
Psychopathy and sociopathy were both characterized by antisocial tendencies; lack of remorse, violence, inflated self-image, etc.
Where they differ is that psychopaths were supposedly devoid of empathy and have trouble with emotional attachments, though they typically learn how to “blend in” if their intellectual development is not stunted in some way. The stereotypical psychopath is intelligent and educated and sometimes even charming, and this isn’t without reason: A truly disquieting number of lawyers, judges, high level managers, etc., tend to test fairly high on measures of psychopathy (or they did, before the DSM changed). The reality of it is, not all psychopaths are terribly bright, but the ones that aren’t tend to be difficult to distinguish from sociopaths.
Sociopaths, meanwhile, can and frequently do have empathy. They form emotional attachments quite frequently, though that doesn’t mean they have any respect for them. They tend to be volatile, prone to outbursts and anger, and rarely plan ahead. They also tend not to respect society or its rules, and simply do whatever they feel like at the time.
Worth adding in all this that sociopaths and psychopaths aren’t innately bad people. Sociopaths have poor impulse control and their actions are usually a result of being unable to regulate their emotions. Children have similar problems, and we don’t really consider them responsible for their actions either. Psychopaths, meanwhile, may be far more common than people realize. Their lack of empathy might make it easier to slide into criminality, but nothing demands it, and, while they might be devoid of empathy, they can still feel sympathy.
Worth adding, though, that just because someone might rank high on the ASPD spectrum doesn’t mean they fall under it. Different disorders can have the same manifestations. Sometimes, it’s not a disorder at all. In Ruth’s case… Who knows? You’d need to do a proper interview with her.
… Y’know, I wrote this post in an attempt to try and explain and even included text to try and destigmatize, but as I re-read, not sure I even did that.
People with ASPD (and, yeah, I gotta own up to this: It’s considered impolite to refer to people by their condition, such as calling them psychopaths or schizophrenia; they are people with those conditions, but they aren’t those conditions themselves) are human beings, and, as Spencer so wonderfully put it, aren’t innately evil and don’t have some sort of superpower. They’re just people. They might have some developmental issues or self-control problems, but they’re still human beings worthy of respect.
Some people use person first language for themselves and some people use identity first language for themselves.
Personally I prefer identity first language for myself. I don’t know what the ASPD or Schizophrenic community mostly prefers though. The important thing is to refer to people how they want to be referred to I think.
You’re right, it would be more correct, and I’m all for good punctuation, grammar, and spelling (even if my own spelling is not always top notch), but I made an exception. Originally it was Lord of Madness at first, but then I went to Lordess, because I like the sound of it. I did try mistress of madness and a few similar things, but Lordess just had this ring to it that none of the others did. And I thought it sounded more original… me. Your own name is pretty cool too.
You’re right, it would be more correct, and I’m all for good punctuation, grammar, and spelling (even if my own spelling is not always top notch), but I made an exception. Originally it was Lord of Madness at first, but then I went to Lordess, because I like the sound of it. I did try mistress of madness and a few similar things, but Lordess just had this ring to it that none of the others did. And I thought it sounded more original… me. Your own name is pretty cool.
While I appreciate Ruth doing her best to protect Carla and I am very glad that she’s doing something in preparation for going after Mary, I can’t help but think is a monumentally shitty defense. “People live in fear of my violence I never actually ACT upon it so it isn’t abusive.”
It’s a shitty defense because she never meant it to be a defense. She literally Did Not Give a Shit, therefore she was free to rule with an iron grip and be ousted by the next King of the Hill.
Then Billie came along and gave her reason to care.
Then shit hit the fan and she realized, shit, I done fucked up.
I’m a little surprised to see no mention of the cycle of abuse here. It’s pretty clear that Ruth’s upbringing was in an emotionally abusive environment, leaving her with a poorly developed idea of how to relate to people in general and a terrible concept of authority in specific. Hopefully this sequence of events will help her at least learn that there’s something wrong with her approach. (I could hope for more, but would probably be doomed to disappointment.) She does seem to have grasped the concept of unintended consequences, however late.
While Mary’s actions towards Carla were certainly unacceptable, I don’t agree saying she belongs with the boys is a transphobic slur. It’s certainly transphobic, but I don’t think it’s a slur per se
I was about to say that Billie should know the difference between actual slurs and hate being spewed at someone and empty threats like the femurs thing, but then I remembered Ruth HAS actually punch/slapped multiple people on this floor so it’s not like the threats are THAT empty.
And the one she has hit/threatened/stolen from the most has been her specifically, so she may be much less likely than most to give Ruth her free pass on “not hurting anyone”.
From Gordon’s earlier comment: “It’s really difficult to judge certain things because the comic blurs the line between cartoon slapstick violence and real world violence.”
That’s a big part of it for me. There’s just no way that Ruth actually slapping Mary in the face wouldn’t have had serious consequences. Even if Mary hadn’t reported it, somebody absolutely would, and it certainly would have become gossip enough for someone downstairs to catch wind. That’s so far out of the bounds of normalcy that there’s no way, in reality, it would go unnoticed — so the fact that it did go unnoticed led to me (and I’d imagine a lot of us) mentally downplaying it and taking it as a hyperbolic action shot that Willis played for the lulz. Same with vandalizing Billie’s cheer uniform. The narrative didn’t treat it seriously, so I didn’t mentally treat it seriously.
So our options here are that it was meant to be treated seriously, thus seen as major hypocrisy and bad behavior by Ruth here, and it was just really badly transmitted by the narrative/writing, OR it was all supposed to be taken lightheartedly as evidence of Ruth’s hardass facade, and Ruth’s concern here is real.
Or maybe I’m the only person who feels that disconnect at all. IDK. Gotta go do actual work now.
I have a harder time disassociating things as “just slapstick” when they’re basically the same thing as actual abuse but with the veneer of “it’s a joke so it’s okay.”
Like, Dorothy slapped Walky that one time, but I don’t think she’s some horrible monstrous abuser because:
– Walky said a dumb thing. The joke played it up as Walky and Joe having a private conversation only for it to be revealed that he was saying this shit right in front of Joyce and Dorothy, then the panel focuses on Joyce running away while Dorothy dope slaps him so hard his head rocks to the side. It’s played for too much laughs for me to even try to view it as “Dorothy asserting power over Walky by physically abusing him.”
– Dorothy isn’t actually an authoritative figurehead with any legit power over him, nor does she have a history of actual harmful abuse being played straight.
I’m thirty. But how many times did Bugs and Daffy blow each other up and still get to be “good guys,” you know? How many Tom and Jerry cartoons started with Jerry being a douchebag first? How events are presented in the narrative matters.
Tom and Jerry are Funny Animals living in a consequence free world. They died in those cartoons and came back no worse for wear.
How do you discern between “Boo Ruth she’s being abusive” and “Yay Ruth she’s being abusive”? I’d rather not, really. Abuse isn’t something I feel really good about laughing about in a comic like DoA. It’s set in the real world that frequently engages in real world consequences, so I don’t think it’s possible to just arbitrarily decide that this time to say “this time it’s okay to laugh at Ruth slapping Mary/clotheslining Billie/stripping Billie in the hallway”.
*so I don’t think it’s possible to just arbitrarily decide to say “this time it’s okay to laugh at Ruth slapping Mary/clotheslining Billie/stripping Billie in the hallway.”
“How do you discern between “Boo Ruth she’s being abusive” and “Yay Ruth she’s being abusive”?”
Yeah, at the moment it’s the physically violent bully who likes tormenting people in a fix because another bully is blackmailing her but I’m not sure if I, the reader, am meant to think that about Ruth.
I’m pretty sire you’re meant to like Ruth more after she starts dating Billie, but honestly as I look back at the older strips I’m getting more excited at the idea of their breakup, and will only really start to like her if she develops super hard in this arc
The fact that it was specifically a “dick slap” pushes it a long way into the slapstick category for me. Had she just hit Mary without the unrealistic silliness of leaving a clear magic markered dick on her cheek, the effect would have been quite different.
Right, that makes sense and I’m not gonna tell someone “nuh uh you have to view it super serial like i do”, but to me it’s that, besides the magic dick imprint, it’s Ruth physically assaulting somebody because she was annoying her. That’s something she’s done numerous times with any kind of accompanying laugh track, so I’m not up for saying “well this time it’s funny.”
To be clear, I’m not at all trying to claim that “it’s okay if it’s funny”. I’m just saying that one reason some people are seeing Ruth sympathetically here may be that the narrative framing presented her previous events as less serious, while Mary’s actions have pretty much always been played straight.
To go back to the Tom and Jerry comparison, there are times when DoA has been framed as more fluffy and silly. It’s not super serious drama all the time, despite Willis’ reputation. And the framing, pacing, writing, other events, etc. around any given event affects how the audience perceives and judges it.
I was replying to Spencer. As far as slapstick goes, if we’re meant to analyze Ruth’s character, I’d definitely say that one counts for analysis. Given how physical we’ve seen her be before, I don’t think this is one of those incidents you discount. Especially not given that this is one where Mary is concerned and, hence, likely contributes to her views of Ruth and the university’s administration.
You’re not the only one, I’m having massive problems with the disconnect. The totally ridiculous car chase last arc was almost shark jumpy.
It’s also combined with a weird morality disconnect where some people are always more right than others and others can be big old d-bags because its funny.
That is actually gleefully throwing transphobic slurs.
Ruth sucks at her job and when it comes to making the dorm unsafe she is in no position to throw stones, but being an asshole doesn’t mean she can’t take issue when people are being bigger assholes to people who literally cannot do anything to do deserve that kind of response, let alone when it’s her job to make sure the students she’s overseeing are protected from these situations.
Trans people have to hear that ALL THE TIME, subtly and… not so subtly. There is nothing in what Mary said that is in any way harmless or excusable. It is textbook discrimination and something colleges actively try to get away from.
Because it’s completely hyperbolic, of course, and not something that commonly starts a depressive suicidal spiral at all. Nope. Completely hyperbolic.
Telling a woman she doesn’t belong with other women because she wasn’t assigned female at birth. Not sure how more explicit it’s possible to get. If by slur, you mean a specific singular word designed to invalidate trans people, then no, there were no slurs of that specific type, but that doesn’t make it hyperbolic.
Calling a trans girl a boy when you know whats up is literally one of the shittiest things you can say to them. While not really a slur in the traditional sense, I’m pretty sure purposefully misgendering is as bad if not worse than the t slur or anything like it
I guess being beaten bloody and senseless by my tormenters growing up, i suffer from a bit of ‘thick skin privilage’ and should show more empathy toward Carla’s plight (this is sincerity, not sarcasm). Difficult though it may be since one of them was a similarly roller-skating twerp who had no respect for people’s peace and quiet and actually punched me in the face skating down the dorm halls once.
Regredless, my original point really being that three wrongs don’t make a right. Rather than take the high road, all three people involved in this fracas have resorted to petty, childish behavior. Its difficult to feel empathy toward Carla when she has admitted she has no compulsion to behave, because ‘everyone else gets to act the asshole to their hearts desire’. It is easy for me to consider Ruth’s statement as making a mountain out of a molehill when compared to the interactions between Mary and Carla, let alone Ruth’s poor behavior. Don’t get me wrong; I don’t condone Mary’s behavior in all this. Insults, transphobic or otherwise, are the signs of a small and petty mind. Using the ones that will hurt the most are the signs of downright mean one. However, is she the worst player in this game because she chose to escalate as well? Or is it the means by which she chose to escalate? Context and perspective seem to be easy concepts gloss over, especially when one reacts with emotion instead of reason. That’s it. Just context and perspective.
Sorry for responding specifically to you, Russ; this was intended for everyone who replied to me. Additionally, I apologize that my original comment was not better worded. I’m a lazy commenter and trying to write anything even remotely intelligent is difficult these days.
One of the reasons Ruth shouldn’t go through with the whole sexy lesbian suicide pact thing is so she can be there for her little brother Howard in two years when he can get out from under grandpa.
I have so much respect for Ruth in this strip.
Yeah, she has a lot of issues and hasn’t always behaved in the best of ways, but this strip? So much respect right now.
I’ll gladly say that Ruth pulled a Karma Houdini on all this. She was so horrible that I felt about her how I feel about Mary now. I thought she was being set up as a full-out antagonist, with over the top evilness that I just had to accept in this universe.
But then Willis totally took me by surprise, and made it where Ruth was really just depressed. Not realistically, mind you. Her actions were way over the top for that. But once you consider her actions as such, she becomes a much more sympathetic character.
She should be a lot less sympathetic than she is. But Willis has made me care about her, to think she’s ultimately a good person. Instead of processing it as horrible flaws in the character, I instead see it as a disconnect in the writing.
I’m wiling to read Ruth as “bully with a heart of gold” which covers a whole host of sins. Especially when you throw in the mental problems.
I cannot do that with Mary, as I can’t really see any redeeming factors about her, any more than I could Ruth before she became a three-dimensional character.
Personally, my take on Ruth is that she’s someone going through some things, but ultimately one who takes and finds satisfaction in anger. There’s probably a cycle-of-abuse angle in there somewhere, but I don’t really care to dig too deeply into it for this post. Put mildly, she’s someone who has shown she gets a kick out of frightening, intimidating, and dominating. I’m personally not sure why she’s suddenly so defensive about Carla when, in the past, she’s been so blasé about people’s feelings. We’ve never really seen her showing a particular compassion before, so it kinda comes out of left field.
To be honest, I’d actually like to see a character like Mary get more dimensions to her. It’s nice to see writers give depth to characters they plainly don’t agree with, and attempt to humanize and empathize with them without trying to shoehorn in sympathetic qualities. Mary’s a human being, with thoughts and feelings and concerns and an inner world as rich as anyone’s.
It was something I actually enjoyed about Joyce in her early arcs: She presented a difference of opinion that didn’t seem like it was intended to be instantly smacked down. It felt… Even-handed. Like we were actually getting to see a world populated by a wide variety of opinions; something with complexity.
I don’t think that’s where this is going, though, sadly.
I like this post, but to specifically address why Ruth is defending Carla:
Ruth has been shown to take on abusers before, almost certainly due to her own history. She threw herself between Blaine and Amber, as an example, and eventually took on telling Amber about her dad in a way beyond just stating the facts, because Ruth got that Amber didn’t actually give a shit about her dad.
So then you get Carla, who okay sure she’s kind of a butthole, but is being attacked in a way specifically using Mary’s bigotry and privilege. It’s not just an argument between two people at this point, because Carla’s being attacked for who she is. Ruth steps in because that shit doesn’t fly for her.
And, yeah, while I’m not expecting a redemption arc for Mary, I would like to at least get into her headspace before this storyline ends.
The majority of people are well-rounded people with both likeable and unlikeable traits.
Some people are not. There may certainly be more beneath the surface but with some people the other side of them is so buried you’re almost certainly not going to see it- often because they really don’t want to let it out.
For example, my landlord. The single nicest thing I can say about my landlord is that he’s not actively malicious. He doesn’t WANT to hurt anyone… But if he doesn’t have to witness the fallout he’ll happily pretend it’s not happening. He takes apathy to an extreme- literally all he cares about is short-term satisfaction. He’d rather complain about something if fixing it would take more effort than just putting up with it.
Is there more beneath the surface? Yes, of course. He’s lonely and sad, possibly even depressed. But nobody is ever going to be able to explore that, because he’s repressing it too much.
Is this the case with Mary? (The repression, not the sadness/loneliness.) I don’t know, but it’s not completely unrealistic if we never see her become more well-rounded. Not because she’s not but because she may never show that she is.
Dude, Ruth, respect. That takes some serious balls to admit and adhere to. You’ve earned a great deal of cool points in my book as far as DoA is concerned. (Yes, I am in fact keeping a running tally with plus and minuses throughout)
Oi, Willis, when will the cast page be updated? Characters who are pretty important, like Jason, Raidah, Leslie, Mary (now), and hopefully Jocelyne (will) deserve spots on the cast list.
*personally, i want gay chikfila guy, but he needs a name first
I’m not sure how often the cast page is updated, but the cast page does list the characters in order of number of appearances. So I’d say all the characters you mentioned have shown up less than all of the characters who are on the cast page. (Not that it means that they’re less important. They just show up less often)
Mary makes herself 100% worse when she says transphobic slurs. It’s as bad as being deliberately racist and sexist. It’s worse. She’s actively, on purpose being horrible.
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“of course I don’t COLLECT them–they make a great soup base”
Why does the mobile site hate me, I stayed up till midnight to post something, and It doesnt load until 12:04
Maybe it wants you to take that time and instead think about the 4th Crusade. And that thought should be ‘Man, the Venetians were cheeky dickwaffles.’
seems odd for a dickwaffle to have cheeks
This makes me think of wafflestomping, which is the grossest thing in the world.
It’d be so much funnier if they sacked someplace in the HRE. I mean I don’t really care about the ERE and acknowledge sacking the HRE would be pretty fucking hard (in that you have to convince a bunch of germans to do it), but it’d be so much funnier.
The Peasants’ Crusade (right before the first Crusade) did just that. Except it was mostly French peasants, not Venetians.
Mostly not Venetians, yes.
#NotAllVenetians
They killed a lot of Jews and a few Catholic bishops. This is why Peasants cannot wage war.
Or have nice things.
Hmmm, what did they do?
It’s all Mary’s fault!
That was my reaction.
Well yes, but deep down isn’t EVERYTHING Mary’s fault?
It ain’t just mobile, I’m on my desktop and it doesn’t load up till 11:02.
I assume it’s gremlins.
I assume it’s Soggies.
Soggies may rule!
Is it really that big a deal? Especially since Willis has specifically banned such behavior? (well, he’s banned calling attention to it but it’s up to him what he will tolerate…)
Wait. When did Willis ban collecting femurs?
Wait, Willis banned staying up until midnight? I may be in trouble.
The key is to live in the Central Time Zone. I only have to stay up until 11:04.
Ana Chronistic’s quote up there is absolutely true!
Notice how Ruth said she doesn’t collect femurs.
Didn’t say anything about not ripping ’em out..
(internal dialogue) Oh, god, I hope she didn’t notice the secret femur stash under the bed.
So, who should play Ruth in Silence of the Femurs?
Now you take those femurs home, throw them in a pot, add some broth, a potato…Baby you got a stew going!
Congratulations, Ana! Your Gravatar finally showed up in the comic!
Unless you just changed it today? I have a terrible memory for these things…
She’s been changing it regularly to excerpts of upcoming comics.
You could say those avatars are …
… anachronistic.
I must confess I didn’t get it immediately.
Aaaand now that comment makes no sense whatsoever. Figures.
Please collect Mary’s femurs, Ruth.
Mount them on the dorm room door. It will keep the others in line.
If she could get Mary’s skull too, she could make a skull and cross bones
“Yarr, I be the Dread Pirate Ruthless. Surrender yer booty, Billingsworth!”
“No fair, we roleplayed pirates yesterday. It’s my turn to pick. You’re a mermaid and I’m Batman!”
Psssh, Batman’s way too much “nerd shit” for Billie
Nah, Batman’s all POPULAR now.
Billie basically tried to make out with Batman once in this comic.
And make accessories out of them, bracelets, necklaces.
What is this primitive world you live in… We use femurs as a high density energy source, over here on mars.
with just two?
Earrings then?
DRUMSTICKS, CLEARLY
And Mary can be the bongo. Heh, heh.
Omgggg
Yes, that would be the best use. You need smaller bones for jewelry, which I learned from an amateur taxidermist who wore a bird-wing necklace and a squirrel vertebraecelet.
Phalanges might make a good necklace, and teeth are a classic for a reason.
‘Vertebraecelet’ is my new favorite word.
She likes the occasional nibble as well.
Notice Ruth doesn’t mention the jar of spleens.
Ruth has the heart of a small child. She keeps it— Oh, you heard that joke already?
Run out and find me a four-year-old child, I can’t make head or tail of it.
Will soggies rule?
They may.
They better.
Except that they couldn’t draw a straight line even if their existence depended upon it.
At least Ruth is responsible.
Haven’t laughed that hard in a while.
so did billie already know or did ruth just out carla
and ruths bark is not actually much worse than her bite shes assaulted both billie and mary
Billie could also think that Mary was calling her slurs because she’s tall, fairly flat, etc, and that it was just bullying a cis girl for her body, but it’s more likely that she knows- it’s not a huge secret (Mary knows, Sal knows (so, it’s not just huge snoops), Ruth knows (although she may only know because as RA she’s supposed to protect her from Marys), possibly others). If Ruth outed her (that could be why Billie’s ‘what’ was so surprised) I imagine Ruth is going to feel even shittier, but force Billie into her room and deal with Mary very quickly to try and redeem herself.
even if everyone figured it out or she thinks everyone did its still not cool to go around telling people unless shes publicly out
She’s apparently out, or at least assuming she is, since she thought the dick on her whiteboard was a hate crime until she saw everyone got them.
Actually, that was really badly phrased on my part…
Put in words that are at least closer to what I actually meant…
‘She’s apparently out, and assuming everybody knows it, since…’
I think it’s presumed to be a pretty open secret among the halls as Carla has not been shy about dropping the hints like a boom.
Isn’t Carla a Sophomore? Maybe she was out to her class a couple semesters into their Freshman year, so none of them are trying to hide it from this year’s class.
Yeah, Carla’s in second year, and you’re right, it’s pretty much 100% that she’s out to people who were around last year.
If she’d decided to try stealthing with the first years, it’d still be incredibly rude to out her, but she doesn’t seem to want that.
It seems like that is the case. Which means she might not be as active about specifically coming out to the new freshmen, because “she’s already out”. And if Ruth is in her second year as RA, that might also mean that she’s been through all the growing pains of that coming out so is even less interested in Mary’s attempt at revivalism than she would normally.
On the other hand I think you can make a case that Sal doesn’t know, based on the course of their conversation.
Pretty sure she knows.
I’m not sure what about that conversation makes you think Sal doesn’t know.
It’s hard to tell in a stylized comic, but so far I’ve been figuring that Carla doesn’t quite “pass” as a cis-lady (mainly because she doesn’t care to), and so anybody can tell if they aren’t super self-centered (not Malaya, probably) and if they’re aware of trans people (not Joyce, yet). Plus she’s not closeted in general.
(I say she’s not closeted because she loudly announced the dong on her door as a hate crime until she got more info. A closeted person wouldn’t have been able to shout that.)
Not only that, but she’s actively doing things that would work against “passing” (and Bob knows I hate that term), such as wearing really short skirts with baggy basketball tops that hide curves. She really doesn’t care if she gets “read”, which is what makes her all the more badass and wonderful. If she’s been hurt before (and I have no doubt she has), she has decided to take all that and say “fuck it” and is just being herself without a care to what assholes think about it.
It’s very Laura Jane Grace and all sorts of awesome.
Exactly. Carla is fearless! She wears what she wants, and skaters gonna skate.
^this
the first two trans folk I met(that im aware of atleast) when I was a wee boy were like this, unabashed and badass and just straight up who they were. This greatly delayed my understanding for just how hard ppl like the have it in todays society, but alsos gave me a rock solid example of “ypull be a lot happier if you just exist, skaters gonna skate”
I am proud that number is 0 too.
Beginners luck.
Really liking Ruth’s eyes in this strip.
It helps that she has actual eyes, not just dots.
I love dorothy’s/becky’s mickey mouse eyes though~
But not Walky, Joe, Danny, Amber, Leslie, Roz or Sal’s?
Dotty and Becky wear it the best, though. xD
*plays “Bad to the Bone” on the hacked Muzak*
Missed you yesterday. Hope you didn’t mind me taking over for ya.
Good choice, although I sort of prefer The Hollies’ version.
“Roll The Bones” would be better.
Obviously, they’ll have to go grave robbing to get some display femurs. That should be a fun outing.
You mean they aren’t just robbing graves to assemble into an unholy being of their own creation?
Man, I was looking forward to Drunkenstein.
Uhm, excuse me *insert obnoxious know-it-all tone* shouldn’t that be “Drunkenstein’s Monster”?
When he drinks, Dr. Drunkenstein becomes the monster.
Intelligence is knowing that Frankenstein was not the monster.
Wisdom is knowing that Frankenstein was the monster.
Charisma is being able to say contradictory sentences that makes sense. Are you a Bard Varius?
That’s …. DRONKensteen.
Frau Blucher!
*horses nieghing*
In the sense that the monster was, for lack of a better word, the doctor’s son, no. Frankenstein is the monster, Dr. Frankenstein is the doctor.
Oh my god Willis. That alt text.
is bark slang for carpet?
Aheh. Heh. Heh heh. Heh.
No, it’s literal.
Is (slang) slang for (other slang)?
lay off the language policing, jason!
Looks like gkheyf’s Gravatar wants to know the answer to that question.
….desperately.
I suppose this was inevitable eventually, wasn’t it?
I’m glad Ruth is taking the initiative here, but…
This feels like it could be handled better, verbally at least, on both sides.
Hopefully these two can make it work some time AFTER Ruth isn’t the RA anymore.
Hey, they’re talking and listening to each other. That can take you over a ton of problems.
Soggies will rule.
… Huh. That’s an actual sign of decent job-doing there, Ruth.
That doesn’t last long.
These are not the standard agreements of the lesbian suicide pact Billie.
Ruth has altered the deal. Pray she doesn’t alter it any furrrther.
This deal is getting worse all the time.
Except for Carla.
Is Ruth trying to act with Integrity? Is she having Regrets?
yup! a truckload just got shipped in
At least the truck didn’t crash this time.
I could have sworn I saw Mary driving a truck into the conversation.
Egrets, she’s had a few…
Poor birds.
Respect avian agency!
But consider them a flight risk.
Are any of them female? I could sure use an egress right about now…
Nevermind the fact that I have suplexed several people and committed other acts of violence among people. I haven’t committed the specific violence that I said I would.
I gleefully await the day that Willis does another alternate universe where everyone is professional wrestlers.
Tapped Out or something witty.
Maybe THEN we can get Sal vs Amazi-girl, Man by the shit out of that bookjust for that story.
Ethan’s schtick is that he wears a bunch of cardboard to look like a Transformer.
Joyce’s Big Damn Coming To Terms With Her Own Morality And Its Apparent Contradictions Arc will include at least one (brief) Face Heel Turn.
Sarah probably still gets to hit someone in the head for messing with Joyce.
Femur count: zero, therefore, totally in the clear. According to the rules I just made up.
Suplexed? Now we’re just making up words, right?
I think it’s like clotheslining, if that helps?
No, a clothesline is (usually) a passive attack, where you hold your arm out and let them run into it (there’s also the active version where you actively run into them, but that’s less fun).
A suplex is an active attack, involving lifting your opponent, then falling backward to drop them on their back. There’s a bunch of variants, but that’s the general concept.
She suplexed one person. Namely, Blaine. She /did/ goad Billie into attacking her, so that’s a grand total of two people she’s attacked.
Like yeah, she throws threats out like they’re day-old bread, and she has done stuff to people’s shit, but she’s attacked two people.
She also slapped Mary in the face and while yes Mary was being an unbelievable pain in the ass it still doesn’t excuse her RA assaulting her.
She /did/ goad Billie into attacking her
That was not all what she did to Billie.
Also she threw Joyce’s gloves out of the window.
But both of those people still have their femurs! We can’t emphasize this enough!
*Billie goes down to Mary’s room* “Hey, bongo, guess what? I just got dumped, so you are about to be dumped.” *Dumps Mary out the window*
Better put her in a dumpster. Maybe so she will recycle her attitude.
Mary is definitely not recyclable. Nothing good can ever come from anything she is.
She spews a lot of shit, so, composting.
Yeah, but the only plants that grow will be skunk cabbages and those rotting-meat flowers.
Ten bucks says Mary wasn’t dressed either. I like that running gag.
Why did you ignore this opportunity to use the word “defenestrate”?
I don’t think anyone would lose any sleep at night if you raised that femur count to two, Ruth.
That being said, what she’s doing is very mature and probably the right thing to do in the long run. (Plus it lets her tell Mary to go fuck herself without fear of getting the boot, which is always a plus.)
Agreed on all points, I’m not a big Ruth fan (though my opinion of her has improved since I started reading) but her statements usually do have an undeniable logic to them.
Yeah, it’s a remarkably strong analysis of the situation if not heavily informed by her panic.
Nyeh heh heh! This strip is very humerus, but I don’t want tibia critic. I just hope the stress doesn’t cause Ruth to catch a femur!
Get out.
We’re supposed to be tolerant here.
Edit: Papyrus reference?
More like Sans.
Sans in the puns, but Papyrus in the laugh. I enjoy it all the same! 😀
Undertale did not invent puns.
Skeleton puns, connected to ‘Nyeh heh heh!’ makes it a definite Undertail reference, though (although Papyrus wasn’t the punny one).
You mean Undertale!
Undertail is NSFW!
Oh, wow. I fight like hell to avoid that typo… I suppose I had to miss it eventually.
You only need to make that mistake once before you see something that can never be taken back.
Im dying at these puns (quick, someone make a dad joke)
Goodbye, Dying. I’m Uncle Jim.
He’s Dead, Jim. Not Dying.
I count one, maybe one and a half puns.
hi dying at these puns, im dad
NYAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!
I don’t know why the hell people are complaining. You know what they say: Carpal Diem!
when was it first mentioned that Carla is trans?
Thanks
It was word of god canon for some time, and hints were dropped in the comic proper, but it was never stated straight out til Mary said it.
Honestly, I thought the boys’ wing thing was just Mary calling Carla a ruffian
crap- wrong comment
It’s been hinted at God knows how many times throughout the comic. I can’t list all the clues off the top of my head, but it was explicitly stated, more or less, a few strips ago with the whole ‘Boy’s wing’ fiasco.
And much to the chagrin of many an evangelical nutcase, God seems to be okay with it.
God designed our operating systems to handle a myriad of software and hardware configurations, but the PC vs Mac argument always seems to crop up.
Honestly, I thought the boys’ wing thing was just Mary calling Carla a ruffian
Kinda just implied throughout the comic.
Willis mentioned it on Tumblr before she was even introduced.
http://dumbingofage.tumblr.com/post/91322448607/is-carla-going-to-be-acknowledged-as-canonically for an example, although this wasn’t the first mention and I don’t think it’s before she was introduced.
Ding Dong Bandit arc I think was the first hint.
Shit how far have we gone since then?
Explicitly , probably this chapter.
Out-of-comic it was announced in the Dumblr soon after she was introduced.
Implicitly, clues were dropped when Becky was introduced, and with “skate-failing liar” dare against Sal ( why Carla wasnt in rollerderby )
That Carla is trans was never explicitly stated in the comic until Antagonize on 23 Jan 2016. But there had been several clues. Also, Willis has explicitly said on Tumblr that DoA Carla is trans and asexual.
Some of the clues about Carla:
Carla has a single room for some reason not know to Joyce.
There is a reason Carla is so tall.
Carla says a picture of a penis on her door only would be a hate crime.
There’s also Wrong, from Jan 20. Whether this counts as an earlier explicit reference than Antagonize, or the last hint before it’s stated in so many words, seems to vary from reader to reader.
Fine upstanding woman that gel.
…:c
I’m telling myself it’s always darkest before the dawn, but something tells me dawn’s a good bit off still.
In a comic that’s had sexual assault and parenting at gunpoint as very real threats, I don’t think this here can register as more than dusk.
Badness is not a zero sum game, sexual assault and parental kidnapping and homophobia and blackmail are all bad things. I’m just saying, looks like things are going to get worse before they get better.
You are assuming they will get better.
The Willis giveth and the Willis taketh away, not necessarily in that order. I have faith things will get better.
…Emperor preserve me, what am I saying?!
Everybody knows that in the grim dark future, it never gets better.
Things are going to get worse before they get worse.
Ruth can’t be the reason the floor is unsafe. No… then she wouldn’t be free to fat-shame those under her care.
Maybe it’s just that she takes the floor being “unsafe” seriously when it’s her charges causing the issues, but sees her own as “running a tight fuckin’ ship.”
“If these people are bullied by anyone else, the legitimacy of my protection racket collapses.”
At least we can truly say no one is on drugs, right? Alcohol ain’t a drug.
Technically alcohol is a drug, since it contains ethanol. It’s categorized as a depressant, which means it decreases arousal or stimulation in certain areas of the brain.
Oh, uh then I guess I do a lot of drugs
Even though I agree with you, I can’t pass up an opportunity to post this link: http://xkcd.com/1475/
My sister starts about half of her sentences with “technically.”
I think that’s largely because she doesn’t know what it means, but the advice works out okay anyway.
Not to mention sugar and caffeine. Maybe Dina does the most drugs of anyone in the strip.
Carla’s likely on HRT, so that’s more drugs.
I do distinctly remember Sal winning a joint off someone. Was it Carla?
It was indeed Carla.
Sal pulled it out of Carla’s mouth when she proved she could rollerblade.
And Sal apparently doesn’t like pot, because she took a puff and gave it back.
It literally is.
That’s the joke.
Oof, those panels 4 and 5 really hammer home how this incident is not just hitting her hard, but straight up haunting her. She’s always shown signs of the job being something that brings out more caring from her than anything else, but here we see something more of the importance that doing a “good job” (by her definition of it) holds for her. In her own femur-threatening way, she cares about the people on her floor being safe and secure, if not terrified of her and thinks this loud aggressive method is the way to do it.
But failing at that, that cuts at her. Maybe it’s cause her grandpa? likes to whittle at her self-esteem like he did over the phone. Maybe it’s cause it’s one of the few things right now she’s using to hold on, but for whatever reason, she wants to do things more or less okay as she defines it.
And when she walked away from Carla, she didn’t just feel she failed her, but also herself and her standards for herself.
She’s wrong in Panel 1, it’s also about pushing away Billie, but it’s her guilt and high standards for herself and her fear of losing this “one thing” where others have faith in her and believe she is doing a good job despite everything she sees about herself. And so she’s willing to sacrifice the other thing that evokes that feeling.
Thank you for reminding me that Ruth’s backstory is full of sads, I keep forgetting that to focus on her present sads.
In her own femur-threatening way, she cares about the people on her floor being safe and secure, if not terrified of her and thinks this loud aggressive method is the way to do it.
No one else is allowed to mistreat anyone on her floor. It’s a territorial thing.
Those femurs have already been promised to the Femur Lord. No others shall harm them before the Harvest Day!
Ruthlessness for the Ruth God! Femurs for the femur throne!
Femurs and souls for my Lady Ruthless!
With my giant, black, runecarved stratocaster FemurSinger.
Which will make no sense without an even more obscure reference, but makes me laugh.
It’s an interesting phenomenon you see with bullies sometimes where they’re perfectly happy terrorizing someone but god help anyone else who tries to pick on their chosen victim(s).
But she does have a pretty sizeable tibia collection.
For the record, I’m okay with Mary not having any femurs.
The joke’s on us, and Ruth. Mary doesn’t actually have femurs. She lost them years ago, but they were replaced by solid eviltonium duplicates.
mary’s also gleefully throwing around anti-atheist hate and homophobic insults and uh… well a lot of stuff that makes that floor unsafe.
cleaning up your life because it’s collaterally hurting other people is… a reason. as messed up as this is so far, i’m still hoping for a happy ending for Ruth and Billie both abandoning their self-destruction.
Exactly. The problem is, Ruth can’t do anything about Mary so long as she has blackmail information on her.
The logical problem I’m seeing here is that, since Ruth cannot alter the past, breaking up with Billie now won’t change anything. Mary can still blackmail her for what she did rather than what she’s currently doing.
Mary’s blackmail will be more difficult once Ruth’s done destroying evidence.
^ This. If Ruth “sanitizes” her room, and thus her image, Mary has nothing but her suspicion and possibly gossip, while Ruth has the glue stain on the floor, Carla’s ruined skates and any statements Carla wishes to make about Mary’s behavior.
The only evidence for what Ruth’s been doing, though, is the word of a transbigot. Mary’s not going to be a credible witness by the time Ruth gets started, never mind later.
If shit goes down this weekend… then it goes down while Becky’s out of the picture (Becky’s squatting being the only concrete evidence Mary would be able to provide), and while Joyce is out of the picture (whose reluctant support Mary is no doubt betting on, probably misguidedly—which she doesn’t know). So the only plausible support would be from Sarah, and Sarah’s right now realising how seriously she needs to take Dina’s and Becky’s needs and feelings.
Much as she’s hated, I see everyone on the floor backing Ruth against anything that comes from Mary.
Only if Mary has photographs of them banging or making out. Otherwise, all Mary has is innuendo that can be explained away, given how /short/ the relationship’s been.
Like, let’s say she’s got a couple of pictures. I think it’s a stretch she has a smartphone, but Willis has pointed out her parents aren’t as terrible, so maybe. Either way, she’ll have one picture of Billie coming out of Ruth’s room looking happy. Maybe. Meanwhile, they’ve had how many floor fights? An anomaly is explainable. The reason she’s got blackmail is the assumption that she will keep defiling the cheerleader, as best we know. And heck, maybe Ruth is considering ‘maybe she has hard evidence, but I’m willing to pull the trigger if she can’t keep gathering it’ (I don’t think this is the case, but it’s possible).
Um… I hate to be that guy, but could someone please explain how words make the dorm unsafe? Not trying to condescend; I literally do not understand. Is it because of the damage Mary could do to people’s self-esteem? The risk that she could involve physically violent like-minded people?
Well, I can’t speak for anyone else, but in my case continued transphobia/homophobia would be enough to make me feel no longer safe to live there. It’s similar to how bullying works. I already get sick to my stomach when reading transphobia online. Real life instances tank my self esteem and put me in a horrible mental state. Like wanting to self-harm levels of bad. Once is bad enough, but now that Mary knows she can get away with it I don’t doubt that this will be repeat offense from her.
We are social animals. Words are a large part of how we relate to others. Words can easily hurt and damage, sometimes more than violence.
Casual transphobia and its tolerance communicates that an area does not view you as fully human and will likely not intervene if a situation escalates. It also means things like casual threats or violence are more likely to be occurring. Additionally, it’s part and parcel of overall dehumanization that reinforces institutional inequalities and thus is more likely to negatively impact mental health and make it easier to believe you are worth less and need to “make up” for your identity to be treated as fully human. It also means you will not likely have support if you try and speak up for your humanity or fair and equal treatment and thus are more likely to suffer unequal treatment because individuals who harass or abuse will see the silence as tacit support for their bigotries.
At worst case, it can work in tandem with society to work as a form of bullying and potentially drive an individual to suicide. Trans people in particular are pretty used to constantly being dehumanized in society, but it is still draining and constantly having to put on emotional armor to walk outside and weather nasty stares and the like gets exhausting. If you start needing said emotional armor to even leave your room because the hallway has a lot of slurs and hatred in it, it starts becoming a thing where you actively avoid interacting with others and stay in your room more because that ends up being the only safe place left to recharge.
At its worst, this relentless negative impact can transfer to all interactions and discourage you from any interaction with other human beings because of the spikes of anxiety and depression it causes.
Today’s homework for everyone, including those of us that think we’re pretty knowledgeable/accepting* about the life of a transsexual, but are not in fact a transsexual ourselves: Read this answer 100 times.
*This is actually a pretty stupid phrase in itself, I find. “Accepting” transsexuals. I don’t consider that I (a cis white male) have a right to accept transsexuality; because that implies that I also have the right to -not- accept it. Which might technically be true, but as far as I’m concerned, it’s as weird as talking about accepting heterosexuality, or a human for being a human. Basic decency makes it impossible to not “accept” any of those thing.
I’m trans and literally every one of the commenters here calling for Mary’s head makes me so incredibly sick. So many people are desperate to ENFORCE TRANS ACCEPTANCE BY ANY MEANS that they don’t actually give a shit about how trans people feel it’s just “nope the trans are always right” and it’s always this big shitstorm and people have to make a great big fucking deal about it when all I really want is to be left alone to live my life and not be made anyone else’s pet cause that they can feel self-righteous about for supporting. Like I don’t even give a shit about Mary being a bongo because she was obviously pissed off about the whole stomping around the halls thinig, and yeah she said something totally fucked up, but the way people are acting like she’s Hitler 2.0 is super messed up. There’s way too many creepers commenting on these comics.
Well, then, you’ll be happy to know I won’t treat you as right because you are trans. I don’t agree with pretty much anything you said.
The only thing I can sorta agree with you on is that it can be a bit disheartening to see people talk about wanting to kill people. If that’s what you mean by “want Mary’s head,” and not that she face the consequences for her actions, then I can understand that. But, even then, that doesn’t justify the rest of your post.
Let’s start with the worst stuff and work our way down. You just defended someone for being a bigot because they were angry. That is not EVER acceptable. I can get as pissed at you as I want, but it doesn’t mean I can use a transphobic slur against you, any more than I can call my black friend the n-word because he makes me angry.
You may personally want to just go and be left alone, but you do not speak for every trans person, let along us other minorities. You may be okay with bigotry because you can apparently hide from it, but there are a lot of people who can’t, and still others who aren’t okay with it even though they can. Why do you matter more than them?
You don’t want to be involved? Fine. Don’t be involved. You have every right to do so. But the second you try to shame people for being anti-bigotry, you’ve decided to get involved. And you’ve chosen the side of the people who do not want you to even exist.
The only reason you even have a choice to sit on the sidelines is that there are people out there who will fight for you. The only reason you aren’t in some sort of mental institution is because of these people. Just because things are tolerable for you now doesn’t mean the fight is over.
It’s not over until bigotry is itself a thing of the past.
“I can get as pissed at you as I want, but it doesn’t mean I can use a transphobic slur against you, any more than I can call my black friend the n-word because he makes me angry.”
Why? What does that have to do with anything? The history of the word makes it so forbidden to say in public that it should be a crime to say it? REALLY? I’ve been called some pretty horrible shit and yeah it’s awful but people will continue to have dissenting ideas to the majority of society and if you try to cover them up and tell them NO it’s NOT alright for them to exist then you’d better be ready for some pushback.
“The only reason you even have a choice to sit on the sidelines is that there are people out there who will fight for you.”
How dare you. How fucking DARE you belittle me and my experiences and my activism and all the effort I’ve put into EVERYTHING I am. I’ve fought plenty for myself and for others and I never wanted your twisted self-congratulatory “maybe i’ll get to fuck a tranny if I stick up for them” activism attitude. Fuck you.
fyi transgender is a better term to use, some people have an issue with the term transexual and no on has an issue with transgender, so everyone is happy if we used transgender! Source is me being trans : O
*permissible*
yeah :/
Yes, “permissible”. I was wondering if someone would mention it.I get tired of editing.
Hmm? That is both correct and what it says…
I neglected to save the original strip. Perhaps Mr. Willis will put it out as a collector’s piece, like that postage stamp with the airplane upside down.
Oh, he edited the strip? That’s less confusing, then.
Ruth is really making excellent decisions here, but I have strong doubts that Billie will be able to be as mature as she’s being.
Sigh. It’s not practical at all but I do kind of still want these two to live happily ever after. (After they wade through their issues, that is.)
I think they need to separate for a while. It’s scary to think that they’re both enabling the alcohol problem on each other, and the suicide pact ain’t any better.
Just see other people. People who don’t have trash bags full of half-empty booze bottles.
Problem is, I get the idea that the suicide pact is the only reason Ruth hasn’t tried to kill herself yet. It’s why she tried to push Billie away last time.
It’s not healthy. Not in the slightest. But she needs something else to keep her going if they’re going to have to actually break up. So she can get to the point where she goes and gets some fracking help.
Because, I know people who used to be depressed. And I know former alcoholics. They can both have that happily ever after if they can get better.
I love Ruth so much right now.
Wait, so it was common knowledge that Carla is trans in the hall, or am I forgetting if it was ever announced? All i remember is Joyce not knowing why she had her own room.
Is this the new “is Ethan gay?”
Huh? I don’t understand the comparison. At this point, either it was confidential information that Mary had somehow gotten her hands on (and Ruth shouldn’t have told Billie) or there’s no explanation for why Joyce didn’t ever hear about it.
I’d think Joyce would be real bad at picking up on euphemisms for trans people. I’d also wonder to what extent she is even aware they exist.
It’s been asked practically every time Carla’s made an appearance, even though at no time has it been indicated that it’s a secret.
As for why Joyce doesn’t know, she’s been there a month, doesn’t have that kind of social awareness yet, and Carla isn’t expected to walk around handing out flyers to the freshmen detailing her gender identity. It just hasn’t come up.
Which reminds me that Roz may be a valuable ally in getting Mary to knock it off with the transphobic slurs. Eh?
Seems unlikely. She seems more likely to take Roz making an attempt to expand her mind, or at least keep her opinions to herself as the Hellbound Slut harassing her for being too moral.
Roz doesn’t have to talk to mary at all (she would, but she doesn’t have to). She can just talk to the authorities herself.
No? I as a reader knew that Carla was trans? Im asking of everyone in the world knew?
Was something unclear about my question
Until the comic where Queen Bongo Mary outed her, I didn’t know.
In comic, some people surmised. Others didn’t Know.
I had no idea Carla was trans until I read the comments about why Mary’s insult was so terrible.
If Carla’s keeping it a secret, loudly complaining about what she assumed was a hate crime to everybody in earshot is not the way to do it.
How we know about Carla’s transness was discussed up-thread.
Ruth never abuses her authority to cause harm except for all those times she did.
But we dont count those times, so its fine.
Wow. Thanks. Character says “I can’t abide by cissexism” and you choose to cheapen it by pointing out she’s causing personal harm, as though that invalidates the fact that she wants to stop cissexism. Super big thanks here, you’re right, we absolutely need only flawless saints saying “Stop cissexism now,” anyone else would /cheapen/ the message with their failings.
God DAMMIT the collective hateboner some folks have because a character is imperfect has worn bone-fucking thin at this point.
Maybe it doesn’t matter either way, but I read Spencer’s comment as lighthearted, not an indictment of Ruth. Or is that what you see as the problem?
Eh, not a much of a fan of Ruth, but this punchline based on how she doesn’t “really” hurt anybody is, well, silly. It’s a little too lighthearted and whimsy when it’s describing the actions of something as real as an authority figure who abuses their power.
I’d rather she own up to all her bullshit for Carla’s sake. Carla doesn’t deserve to live in an unsafe environment allowed by her RA, but I’m glad at least that Ruth recognizes she’s fucked up. Not really sure where this idea that Ruth being bad at her job suddenly invalidates her guilt over Carla comes from, or that the only way to be a meaningful ally is to be a flawless saint.
Just, y’know, she’s a bit different than “not perfect”. It’d be nice if her biggest problem was “not perfect”.
it does make sense to me that that’s how she justifies it, though: it’s okay to threaten as long as you don’t *really* go through with it. you don’t *really* mean something hurtful if you just say it.
…it doesn’t make sense to me personally but emotional justifications around violence don’t necessary have to make all the logical sense you feel me
I feel ya, I’m just completely unwilling and unable to view that as a good thing.
Besides, she has gone through with it. Numerous times. Unless the last panel is specifically referring to Ruth actually tearing peoples’ bones out and not her abuse, then I don’t know how it makes any sense for Ruth to say “I’ve never actually hurt anybody” when she’s standing in front of her favourite victim.
Where does that idea come from? I dunno, maybe the fact that it’s the actual standard that seems to be required by the commenters? I mean for fuck’s sake. I don’t go on every strip of Amazi-girl knocking over Muggers and complain, and that actually is still harmful (In that it promotes vigilantism, which ends with me and people like me beaten to death, even if what Amazi-girl is doing in the short term is all fine and dandy). I have some measure of sense. Yes, people are often bad. Yes, doing some good doesn’t actually invalidate the harm they do. But the consistent tone in general is “man fuck Ruth she doesn’t care about the harm caused because she causes harm.” Yeah, she causes harm. But she’s trying to prevent systemic harm which hits those worst off.
People hate Ruth because she’s an abuser. Nobody’s asking to be perfect, just, hey, maybe constantly harassing Billie out of a misguided grudge was kinda fucking awful, and acknowledging that she actually has done awful shit doesn’t suddenly remove that she also has issues of her own, but for the life of me I’ve never really put that much stock in the motivations of abusers and am more concerned that they cut their shit out, which Ruth mostly has.
Anyway I can only speak for myself here, but my post was focused on Ruth’s line in the last panel. It’s a good sign, at least, that she recognizes that she fucked up by Carla and feels awful about it, and is trying to make some effort towards that, but her last line about how she’s “proud” about how she’s never actually taken femurs, unless that was meant literally, is just wrong. She has hurt people before, and now, because of her mistakes, Carla is getting hurt.
Please. People have forgiven that, including you. Try something that isn’t a relatively common, and forgiven, trait in the cast if you’re going to search for that.
But you know, this isn’t about LIKING Ruth. This is about letting your hate for her get to the point where anything plausibly important and good that she does, gets overridden by the fact that you hate her, as it is now. There’s a reason I’m now actually fucking angry, rather than distressed. If this were a more minor thing, like someone from another floor hurting her, it’d make sense to just say it’s a territorial thing, and to be this fucking dismissive of her desire to protect Carla from… whatever theoretical minor harm. But in the comic that actually exists, Ruth is talking about a major systemic harm backhanding literally anyone in her dorm. She’s hurt people, but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the harm that she’s trying to prevent for Carla now. Pretending otherwise is just trying to justify your dislike, to the detriment of what she’s trying to do.
“Whatever, stopping cissexism doesn’t matter because you hurt your charges” is a great reason to dislike her, but it’s a fucking ASININE thing to say /about the part where she’s trying to stop the cissexism/. Which is, you know. Now.
That would be why I said “I’m glad she’s trying to help Carla but goddamn is it fucking stupid for Ruth to say that she’s never hurt anybody.”
Nice point. Suppose that Mary were to deliberately do something good. Actually good. Would our Mary hate keep us from admitting the goodness of her act? (I suspect for many here, it would.)
I mean, even before Ruth’s character development kicked in, it was made clear that there was something up with her. Her depression and attraction to Billie were built up for over two years before we started getting into her head. Even right after flinging Billie into a chair she still tried to offer some advice to Dorothy on what to do about Danny.
Mary isn’t that. She’s basically just been an asshole since day one, and recently graduated to horrible asshole. We’ve never been given any indication that there’s anything more to her, to the point where the somewhat prominent “hiding wrist scars” theory as recently squashed.
As for nice things about Mary, well, she draws okay I guess.
Ruth isn’t “imperfect” she’s a chronic abuser of her charges and disturbingly incompetent at her job which is what has allowed Mary to get into this position of power in the first place. She’s half the reason Carla is stuck in this hostile environment now because Ruth hamstrung her own ability to protect her as an authority figure.
Bull-fucking-shit. What comic are you reading? In the one we actually have, the actual reasons Mary can blackmail her is she hasn’t caught Becky (in spite of the whole floor, including her girlfriend who she trusts) hiding her, and because she’s nailing Billie. Ifs he HAD caught Becky, she might be ‘competent’ but she’d be making life infinitely worse for Becky. So what, we throw Becky under the buss for Ruth?
Nailing Billie isn’t ‘incompetence’ (It’s strictly speaking a possible abuse of power, but not ‘incompetence.) and aside from Ruth not catching Becky, we don’t have a lot to indicate she doesn’t keep order (which is the bulk of her job). Yes, she does it by threatening her charges, and no, that isn’t fucking okay, but in the comic we actually have, 100% of the reason Carla is putting up with cissexist bullshit is fucking Mary. Not ‘omg Ruth isn’t perfect’. Or even ‘omg Ruth is a threatening asshole’.
It’s not Ruth’s fault that Mary is engaging in transphobic bullshit.
It is, however, her responsibility to take it to a higher authority so they can properly discipline Mary, and she ain’t doing that.
She shouldn’t be banging Billie since it’s against the rules of the job she voluntarily signed up for, but eh, that’s not what’s wrong with them. It’s small potatoes in the same way I’d rather Becky be illegally hiding in the dorm rather than following the law and living on the streets, but it’s getting in the way of her fulfilling her responsibilities.
Yes, but to then pretend that the blackmail-ee is the actual problem when they aren’t doing something harmful is fucking bonkers. The problem is the blackmailer, every fucking time. The blackmailer is the one trying to turn something that isn’t harmful into something harmful for someone else. That is blatantly not Ruth’s fault.
And yes, I understand the full chain of problems with someone in power banging one of their charges, and in the real world that basically never leads to the 1-in-a-million or worse where everything is genuinely fucking fine and there isn’t an abuse of power. There’s a reason this is against ethics codes, and it’s a damn good one. None of that matters to whether the 1-in-a-million causes harm itself, though (Although strictly speaking the act of /finding/ happiness in this manner spurs the myths that it’s okay to do this in general, so there’s that. But then, that’s never anyone’s problem, is it?)
I mean, Ruth and Billie’s relationship is harmful, but that’s not really Mary’s concern so it’s not worth bringing up.
And like, I know Ruth isn’t the one actively causing pain, but it’s her inaction that’s allowing it. She has a responsibility to at least notify her bosses, and she’s not doing that because otherwise the rules she’s breaking get blown open. Teachers who looked away from me when I was getting my ass kicked as a kid, or even just stared? I kinda put them on the same level as the ones punching me in the back of the head. Ruth needs to do something, and she isn’t, if only because it’s her job.
And while I could write an entire essay as to why Ruth/Billie has been harmful, it’s ultimately irrelevant to the situation now, as it would be used as blackmail regardless of it being healthy or not.
But isn’t she doing something right now? She’s cleaning up her act so that Mary can’t blackmail her. Without the blackmail, Ruth can stop the shit Mary is doing.
I’m not entirely convinced, but I hadn’t thought of that as I just figured she was trying to cover her own ass so I can buy it. That’s a good interpretation too.
Still, the problem with Mary’s blackmail is that she’s right. Becky’s going to be back in a few days and Billie has all her stuff hidden in Ruth’s room. If Ruth and Billie do lay low for a bit and can build up enough plausible deniability then that lets Ruth report Mary without consequence, but it’s Ruth and Billie so I doubt they’d do anything that sensible.
Uh, the teachers in your past were presumably not under duress. If you would place them as having ‘equal responsibility’ if they were, that’s fucked up. Ruth is under duress. She isn’t responsible for her inaction unless you believe she’s responsible for her duress. Duress tends to permits inaction in a reasonable ethics standard.
And well, regardless of whether you claim you can write an essay, I already listed the problem here – them finding happiness and not being abusive strengthens the myth that it’s what’ll happen and we shouldn’t have those ethics codes. It’s a real harm, but it’s not really germane to whether it makes it Ruth’s fault all of a sudden (tl;dr, no). And them harming themselves is literally nobody else’s business. I didn’t say it wasn’t remotely harmful to them. I said the actual harm anyone should care about is, well, what I just said. And that’s not what anyone ever cares about
I was in elementary school when this happened and you’re asking me to consider if they had problems before doing their jobs in ensuring kids weren’t getting the shit kicked out of them? Hypothetically, if they were, why should I care when their inaction impacted me?
If Ruth is so under duress that she can’t do her job, then she shouldn’t have her fucking job, let alone when that duress pushes her to abuse her charges. Ruth is absolutely responsible for her inaction when her job demands it. If she is incapable of doing her job then she should fucking step down, at the least until her illnesses have been sufficiently addressed to a point where they won’t interfere with her job, which they constantly have.
Please don’t take this as an attack, but I think there a lot of differences and you may be relating the situations too closely.
First, this setting isn’t an elementary school and Ruth isn’t a teacher. She’s herself an abuse victim (at least strongly hinted at, though we haven’t seen her backstory directly) and she’s only a couple years older than her charges. As an RA, she really has very little authority. All she really can do is report people to the actual authorities. The power differential is there, but it’s nothing like that between elementary school kids and their teachers.
Second and probably more importantly, we’re not asking you to consider your abuser’s issues or those of the authority that couldn’t protect you. Nor is anyone saying Carla should understand and forgive Ruth – or that Billie should have for that matter. We’re outside the story. We can look from that vantage point and have empathy for Carla, Billie and Ruth.
Sure, she should step down. She should stop drinking. She should have sought treatment for depression long ago. But she’s an abused, depressed, alcoholic and as a direct result of that she can’t actually make good decisions. I also suspect that if she did step down, she’d be screwing herself for life, because her grandfather isn’t likely to be sympathetic, to say the least.
And by not stepping down she’s screwing everyone on the floor who could be benefiting from an RA who isn’t completely dysfunctional. I sympathize with Ruth but in her current state her position of authority over these students is completely and utterly unacceptable. She’s dangerously unstable and incapable of adequately performing her duties. She is so corrupt that she is being blackmailed into inaction by one of her charges. My sympathy for blackmail victims is proportional to how much sympathy I would have for them if they simply got caught for whatever is being used as blackmail and I have very little sympathy for abusive authority figures getting caught out.
I don’t have any kind of, like, emotional connection to being bullied as a kid. I just brought it up because it’s a situation where an authority figure didn’t do their job and I suffered for it. It sucked and it happened but eh, it was 13 years ago. I appreciate your concern, though.
After that, I guess I’m not sure how to answer the rest. Ruth has a job, she’s not doing that job, her not doing her job has consequences, and she should be fired. I don’t like, actually blame her for having her illnesses or anything, and it’s not her fault she’s suffering from these illnesses on the job, but I just can’t bring myself to care for what she gets out of it when she cocks it up so badly to the point where other people suffer for it. Ideally, Ruth could get help and also continue her job, but that’s not happening.
“I was in elementary school when this happened and you’re asking me to consider if they had problems before doing their jobs in ensuring kids weren’t getting the shit kicked out of them? Hypothetically, if they were, why should I care when their inaction impacted me?”
That isn’t what I said, even remotely, actually. I mean, it doesn’t really matter to how you feel about it, but it does matter to how blame is, and should, be assigned, at least by literally everyone else. In bringing up your teachers, you attempted to be going for the latter, so unfortunately, I phrased my response the same damn way, but I suppose it could have stood more words pointing out that it doesn’t really mean anything to how you ‘should’ feel about them. But nonetheless, as far as blame for literally everyone but the victim? Including you, vis-a-vis Carla? (I remind you that if either of us is the victim, it’s me, wrt her) Yeah. No. People under duress don’t share that.
“Well, she should fucking leave”. It just fucking happened. Good god, should she have used timelord powers to foresee and prevent this? I don’t think she realized what the blackmail was going tod o on the spot and thought she’d just self-destructively barrel on through it (Certainly, this was my expectation of what she’d do, and I had some despair over it).
“My sympathy for blackmail victims is proportional to how much sympathy I would have for them if they simply got caught for whatever is being used as blackmail and I have very little sympathy for abusive authority figures getting caught out.”
See, as an old hag, I’m starting to understand why the elderly hate the yoofs. She isn’t being caught for being an ‘abusive authority figure’. She is being caught for banging her girlfriend, and NOT catching the gay girl. Did you forget that part? The part where the lesbian would have to sleep under a bridge if Ruth were doing her job to Mary’s satisfaction? For fuck’s fucking sake. Mary can’t, and isn’t threatening, to reveal that Ruth is mean and overly violent. So by your own fucking standard, you should have some sympathy for Ruth. But frankly, that isn’t what I fucking want out of the commenters. I want them to stop pretending Ruth’s violence is the problem that is part of why she’s being blackmailed in any meaningful sense.
Opposing cissexism, heterosexism, and the like, is always, ALWAYS fucking important. EVEN WHEN THE VICTIM IS A HORRIBLE HUMAN BEING. You are NOT supposed to be perfect, but even if you are the actual worst, the systemic abuse doesn’t stop at you. It isn’t actually okay to contextualize Mary as a horrible harpy. Carla is still a woman, even if she’s an annoying asshole. And even though she’s a violent asshole, Ruth’s problem isn’t supposed to be her girlfriend*
*I mean, to the administration, yeah. Like I said, that’s not okay for good reasons for ethics codes. But we’re third party viewers who can clearly see there isn’t coercion in their relationship (If anything, the coercion was when they didn’t have it). It doesn’t really matter to real life rules, but ethics? Yeah, our increased knowledge as third parties matters.
Also, I think Ruth might be trying to set things up to end this blackmail early… not sure Billie is gonna be 100% on board, especially since she’s got a fantasy idea in her head on the seductiveness of having this clandestine affair where she’s literally saving her love’s life, which involves a lot more contact and a lot less having to stay apart and lay low as part of actually avoiding detection… especially since she’s using this relationship to mass spam the snooze button on her own depression spiral.
I really hope Billie doesn’t immediately hold this against Ruth for trying to do the right thing. I mean she will, but I can hope.
Here’s a good demonstration of how an abusive background can belie a compassionate heart- Ruth genuinely wants to protect the people on her floor, and is ashamed that she’s been cowed into silence by Mary. But at the same time, she knows her natural response- violence or the threat thereof- isn’t merited, and she has no idea how to handle it.
I imagine this will be where the rest of the cast starts to get involved, and Ruth and Billie learn a valuable lesson about friendship or whatever.
Dear Princess Femursia…
Friendship’s a suckers game.
Now animosity, there’s where all the money is.
¿Por qué no los dos?
Because that’s not how real life works, unfortunately.
Also all the hate sex.
“you said you’d rip out our femurs!”
“well, you believed me.”
“YOU SAID YOU’D RIP OUT MY FEMURS LAST!”
“I lied.”
Ruth and Billie should really call Mary’s bluff. And if Mary isn’t bluffing, let her know that her life at school will be a living hell if she follows through.
At some point, Mary is going to back down, especially once she realizes that the rest of the floor is going to back Ruth and be against her. A full year or two of being hated and ostracized is not as much fun as it sounds, just take it from Sarah.
Sadly, she’d probably sign up for it just for the chance to act all martyred… I mean, she’ll whine and complain once it’s actually happening, but she only needs that initial step to fuck over some lives.
That sounds really shitty and I hope this never happens. Take it from someone who’s been through that shit. It makes you feel like you’re less than dirt and there’s nothing you can do to fix it. I had my parents with me to help me through most of high school, and as much I don’t like what Mary did I don’t wanna’ see someone who’s miles from home and without any friends go through that stuff.
Mary already doesn’t seem to have friends in her dorm, but she’s also never been shown to be sad about that.
There was a point in time when we never knew what Amber’s motivation behind being Amazi-Girl was either.
Point is just because we haven’t seen something doesn’t mean it isn’t there.
Mary is an adult and needs to learn how to quit being a musical instrument if she wants to be not ostracized by her peers. We turn into huge jerkholes in our teens for a reason; and, even though kids aren’t finished maturing until their late 20s, we have a social expectation of adulthood at 18, so they need to adapt to that, even if the lessons suck.
This.
Learning’s all well and good but it doesn’t trump the safety of the people around you.
Wouldn’t that just escalate the conflict and hurt everyone, though?
A LOT of disappointed posters on here right now, I imagine
I just wanna see Joyce’s family.
I just wanna slap Fwip with a halibut (when the family visit turns out to be non-horrible).
I’ll never be so happy to be struck with a fish.
The only times I have not liked Ruth is when she made her moves on Billie and when she backed down from Mary.
I’m glad she’s standing up to the fact that that ain’t gonna get it: Mary has no right to treat people the way she does. And as RA it’s up to Ruth to stop it.
Billie is okay, she can pull on her big girl pants when she has too.
This may be best thing that’s happened to the two of them yet.
Wonder if Ruth was throwing away the half full bottle of booze – trying to quit again? Billie is no help in that respect. AA guys.
Loved the hovertext tonight. As Ruthless as Ruth is, I’ve always suspected her bark is worse than her bite.
You didn’t dislike her back before we knew she had any reason to be the way she was, and she came off just like a violent psychopath and possibly a villain?
Nope
Ok, here’s a question… how does this impact Becky? She’s been staying in Billie’s room, but if Ruth is calling off their relationship, Billie will have to move back. So Becky can either: Stay in Billie’s room on the floor (quite inconvenient for everyone), stay with Joyce (awkward given Becky’s feelings), stay with Dina (although they may not be at that point in their relationship), or perhaps reach out to Joyce’s gender studies teacher for advice.
well the latter would be the best situation for everyone, so clearly it wont happen
Rooftop Roomie.
Yes I’ve already trademarked that.
Go Get A Rooftop!
uproarious laughter
I’m betting money she moves in with the teacher. She can’t stay in the dorm forever, and the teacher already wants to be helpful. Bonus points if, after that, Becky somehow ends up with said teacher romantically
whats the opposite of bonus points. penalties? you get a lot of penalties for that last idea
Oh I’m not saying I’d want that. I can just see it happening in the comic. sorry for even bringing it up!
I can’t see it happening. This is Leslie we’re talking about.
I can almost see this turning out like an 80s style sitcom episode…
Billie movies back to her room while Becky is away. Billie is sound asleep when Becky gets back. She climbs into bed without noticing Billie is in there. Lots of misunderstandings happen.
Dina comes in and sees someone sleeping, and gropes Billie thinking she is Becky. Billie thinks Dina is Ruth groping her and turns over with a smile.
Two screams.
A third scream from Becky.
Much more screaming.
Especially when other people come in to see what all the screaming is about.
Hilarity ensues.
Yes, please.
Man, they are a bunch of screamers.
Can someone give me a list of the times that Ruth has actually attacked someone? I can think of Billie (which she could justify as her being a willing participant), and Blayne. Did she also attack someone else?
Because I think Ruth is trying to say here that her threats are all bluffs to keep people in line. And I think she probably does tell herself that.
she also slapped mary during the ding dong bandit arc
she physically dragged someone to one of the meetings once. cant remember who; maybe sarah?
and billie was in no way a willing participant of anything ruth inflicted on her before they got together
Yep, it was Sarah. Slapping a dick picture onto Mary’s face was pretty awful, even though it was Mary.
Sarah and Mary: Stragglers
Not sure if this counts as an ‘assault’ but she did throw Joyce’s gloves out the window. So that is destruction of private property. (And not sure how Ruth would have gotten the gloves in the first place.)
Oh yeah and she lifted Dina out of an elevator by her shirt. Rude! http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-3/01-if-the-shoes-split/room/
I wouldn’t call the gloves destruction of property – they’re just outside, not in a river or something
When she initially stole Billie’s uniform, however…
Let’s see, she flipped Billie. She tried to physically strike Billie. She stole Billie’s shirt and damaged it. She *did* strike Mary. And, several cases of manhandling residents.
This is on top of simply delivering repeated threats, which should be enough to get her ousted as an RA on its own.
You’ve said “Ruth tried to physically strike Billie” a few times so far on this page while invoking the time Amazi-Girl separated them, so I’m starting to think you’re recalling this old sequence a little backwards:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/nerds/
Amazi-Girl stopped Billie from hitting Ruth (a second time), not Ruth from hitting Billie.
Man, I used to have some different generic crowdfolk back then, didn’t I.
That’s my mistake, and I’ll take that correction.
The strip before does, however, change things, if what Ruth said is true, that she has free reign so long as things remain quiet…
*crosses fingers and hopes Mary’s leverage might not be as strong as she thinks*
Y’see, Mary’s made a classic blunder. She assumes that she’s safe because Ruth can’t do anything to report her. Setting aside that Ruth will probably reach a point where she considers sacrificing her job worth it, it doesn’t apply to anybody else in the dorm.
Her roommate, for example, is not the least bit shy about speaking her mind, and isn’t likely to regard Carla as an acceptable loss.
You also had commenters who didn’t grasp at straws to say every character interested in girls was the devil.
Except Dina.
Provoking a fight, in many jurisdictions, strips self-defense as a justification for the beating you provide. I don’t know or care whether it does in Indiana – whether the law catches up to ethics doesn’t change ethics. I like Ruth, but I wouldn’t call that her not being violent. Am I misreading her, and she /isn’t/ trying to get Billie to swing first? It’s plausible she wasn’t, given her characterization, but it’s sure as hell how it looked to me.
Hardly matters, since the fight started when Ruth clotheslined Billie completely unprovoked (segnosaur’s link below – and, just for completeness, Billie was running in the hallway because she was late for class, not to confront Ruth.)
Assuming that hadn’t happened, though, the idea that constitutionally something you say, alone, can legally strip you of the right to self defense is a dangerous one, and one I suspect would be subject to strict scrutiny vs the constitutional right to free speech.
er, the first occurrence of the word “constitutionally” in my comment is an artifact of poor editing; ignore it.
Constitutionally, “fighting words” are in fact an unprotected category, though the context is slightly different and I don’t think the Supreme Court has ruled on how they relate to self-defense rather than arresting people for using them.
Legal issues aside, the idea that taunting someone into taking a swing at you, then claiming self-defense when you pound them into the ground strikes me as crappy as hell. Reminds me of school bullies who’d get their victims in trouble by pushing victims to the snapping point just when a teacher arrived.
I don’t think what she said in that scene was “fighting words” in the sense that nothing she said would incite a reasonable person without the context of her having stolen Billie’s cheerleader uniform and got away with it (which would be separate charges) to violence.
To my knowledge, nothing can strip you of a right to self-defense under US law, but it does potentially eliminate culpability on the part of the other person and, in turn, can get you charged for incitement. In other words, you’re not charged for any violence (as long as it’s only as much as is necessary to ensure your survival) but you will be charged for inciting the other person to violence to begin with.
Varies by state, naturally. The US is pretty uneven about this stuff.
Well, is she permitted to stop a student with physical force? If so, the clothesline isn’t really starting a fight.
But that’s completely asinine. You don’t have a right to unlimited speech. The idea that you should be able to beat people just by getting them to throw the first punch, when that’s your goal, is complete lunacy. If you provoke a fight, whether by words, or actions, you shouldn’t have the protection of the law for fighting back. Being provoked isn’t, and shouldn’t be, a mitigating factor for assault, but that doesn’t change one bit whether self defense is what it is.
I mean, do you even know what self defense *IS*? It’s literally a defense of justification. “Yes, fighting is wrong, but under the circumstances, I am justified, because I was protecting myself or someone else from harm, and this fighting was a necessary or reasonable step to make.” You aren’t protecting yourself when you start the fight. You’re hurting someone, you’re just trying to do it in a legal way.
Basically, if you ever find yourself ‘defending free speech’ when you aren’t being prevented from saying something, you’re probably saying something fucking stupid and need to reconsider your fucking stance.
There’s a vast gulf between “anything that absolutely any of the seven billion people in the world (some of whom are pretty stupid themselves) might want to hit someone for saying” and “probably something fucking stupid”.
What if we were having this argument in person and you decided to hit me for this comment? Should I have no right to self defense in that case? What if it were the other way around?
If you’re going to say that “ethically” there is some kind of provocation that means you don’t have the moral right to defend yourself against physical attack, you absolutely have to provide a better definition of provocation than “anything that makes someone feel like hitting you”.
In other words, “It’s hard to prove, so it should never be allowed to strip a defense”. Even when it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt (a high standard, to be sure), it /still/ doesn’t matter. Good gods.
If the prosecutor can’t show, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you were trying to provoke someone, /that starting the fight was your goal/, it’s rather a problem that takes care of itself. You know, the idea I used out of hand. It’s the specific thing I imputed to Ruth. But no, build up your little fake definition I didn’t use of ‘a thing that makes someone feel like hitting you’. That’s totally what anyone’s said in the history of ever.
I’m not actually sure she IS allowed to use force to restrain someone. Even if she was, I’m pretty sure clothes-lining them definitely wouldn’t be on the list of acceptable methods.
“The idea that you should be able to beat people just by getting them to throw the first punch,” The problem is in defining by what standard your words are judged to be an attempt to get them to throw the first punch.
The cans of worms that letting the standard be “anything that someone in fact punches you after you say” with no other limitations are so obvious I didn’t think I needed to spell it out – you’re basically saying anyone can punch anyone for any reason, as long as that reason includes words, no matter what those words are. For example, that Mary could have punched Carla for the “I could not” remark, and Carla would have no right to self defense.
Well yeah, because that would be completely stupid approach. On the other hand so is: “It doesn’t matter at all what you say”, which is a lot closer to your original post.
Once we’ve disposed of the strawman extremes, can we agree that it’s possible, but doesn’t apply in this case anyway, since Ruth started the whole damn thing by stealing her clothes and clotheslining her in the hall?
No, I didn’t say that. You said that. I didn’t say anything /like/ that. I’m not sure where you got it, besides your own head. Christ almighty, Frozen peaches rot people’s fucking brains.
I gave the baseline standard immediately – anything you say or do for the express purpose of starting a fight. It’s really fucking hard to demonstrate that in the criminal law, but if it can be, your justification is (in some jurisdictions) and should be, toast. I am totally okay with it being hard to prove too. The thing is, I’m also talking to the omniscient creator god of the comic. This is someone who CAN answer that question, more or less beyond a reasonable doubt (Probably won’t, but CAN).
As for “Well, is she permitted to stop a student with physical force?” that’s so far from reasonable it didn’t even occur to me as something you might think. I don’t even think the university is permitted to authorize people to use physical force in the way that Ruth does.
What do you mean “tried to strike Billie”? She actually did. In an unprovoked incident. (This led to the later involvement of Amazi-girl.)
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/dragon/
I’d call that clotheslining, personally.
No Ruth, you can’t let the Mary the dictator want-a-be win! You find out what Mary’s kryptonite is an use it to threaten her with mutually assure destruction. “It’s a moral imperative.” (Just rewatched “Real Genius”)
And besides, breaking off with Billie doesn’t change anything. Mary can still threaten to expose that the relationship happened.
The point of breaking up is to make sure destroying the evidence sticks. Without evidence, Mary can’t expose anything.
Plausible deniability with the “it totally did happen!” thing, though. Ruth and Billie can clean up the evidence and then just lie through their teeth unless Mary has tangible proof of her own.
The problem is that Ruth is also a horrible RA. It’s one thing to get a reputation for being hard-line and ready with the consequences. It’s another thing to physically assault residents and damage their property.
Quite frankly, Ruth shouldn’t have lasted this long and anybody finding that Mary has some kind of Ruth-shield can easily report Ruth for the aforementioned physical assault and damage to property, thus getting a new RA that Mary doesn’t have shields against.
I really do think the Students on the floor would rather get rid of Mary than of Ruth.
Yeah, Ruth made a big show of intimidation, but the only one who’s property she damaged was Billie, when she visibly fought with someone, it was either Billie who confronted her or Toedad (which rather makes her a hero as things stand). And than there was the slap to Mary’s face – which astonishingly, Mary didn’t report. Obviously, she didn’t think that would work out as she wants.
Ruth knows she is not a really good RA (are the introductory courses to the job really as useless as they seem from what she mentions?). She doesn’t want to be bothered with bullshit (thefore she drags everyone to the floor meeting to get it over withn once) but she is protective of the people under her care.
The reaction of her grandfather to her losing the job or leaving it would probably break her, he already does without having a tangible reason to do so.
Oh, i liked the other avatar better 🙁
Property damage-wise, she also chucked Joyce’s mittens out the window. Shitty of her, but petty and easily fixed. I think the floor would rather keep Ruth and get rid of Mary, but we’ll have to wait and see. Some of them might be happy to remove both.
You mean Blaine, not Toedad, right? If I missed her getting Ross I am disappointed.
Well, she did get to help a bit towards the end with Ross/Toedad, though.
Ruth tried to stop Blaine from chasing after Amber, and was going to look up to see if he was allowed on campus during the family weekend before he charged at her.
She then suplexed him. It was pretty great.
Also, is the problem here that Ruth is dating one of the students that she’s in charge of? Because she’s the only one in the room so it isnt as if someone is gonna complain that they have to share a space with a constant guest. And the RA I used to have was dating a student, too, and they got married after they graduated. He just wasnt in her hall. Or ia it more a problem because of the underage drinking? Im just not seeing why an RA cant end up dating someone in her hall.
It’s generally against the rules, due to the inherit power imbalance and the favoritism that comes with this kind of relationship. Some schools allow it if you don’t keep it a secret (which they have) and some have zero tolerance. Moreover, a lot of schools say that drinking in dorms is specifically against the rules, even if all participants are over 21 (they aren’t). So this is a bad situation to be in if someone knows you’re doing all of this and doesn’t like you.
I believe this was explained in the comments with the last comic.
In general, there are rules against people in an authority position dating people underneath them. (Teachers dating students, bosses dating secretaries, etc.) There are a couple of reasons for this:
– It prevents the possibility that the authority was blackmailing the other person (i.e. if you don’t date me I’ll give you a failing grade/fire you/etc.)
– It prevents the person in authority from favoritism (i.e. I’ll ignore that they’re late for work.)
Ruth is an R.A., and thus has a certain amount of authority over Billie. Even though Billie appears to be a willing participant, the rules have to be enforced universally
No, you nailed it on the head. She’s involved with a student under her care, it probably wouldn’t matter if they weren’t on the same floor of the same dorm, but they are so it matters.
AND they’re drinking underage, on campus, in a dorm, and procuring the alcohol and providing it to each other. All four would be enough to get them kicked out of university, the first and last in the list could get them arrested as well.
AND having sex in the dorm, which was a violation of the rules at Indiana University last I knew (but that was ten-ish years ago, so maybe that’s changed… but I doubt it).
My university didn’t care about ANY of this, but my university was in Scotland, not Indiana. I grew up in Indiana and took a class at IU and had many friends attend there and did quite a bit of research there professionally… that institution cares about ALL of this.
I’m not sure if there is a rule against sex in dorms (how could you even enforce it?). But if there is, its probably not enforced.
Remember, Roz actually videoed herself having sex in Joe’s room, and we know the University knew about it (the Dean made a comment about it), and last we heard nothing happened to Joe, even though it was his room.
Rules that are usually not applied are a bongo. Because they are still there and used if they want to get rid of someone and find no other reason to do so.
But really, there are rules against having sex in the dorms at American Universities?
Are there still there from before the students revolution or were they re-introduced in these years of backlash?
The things I learn here are incredible.
In Germany, dorms are often not on-campus and everyone has single rooms (though studentens might share a kitchen and bathroom facilities in groups between 4 and 20 or so). They are rented by people from different universities (Berlin has three mayor and dozens of minor universities), and house rules don’t really differ from renting a place anywhere else. Forbidding alcohol or sex are not done. There is no such thing as an RA.
That said, I’m talking about publicly-funded dorms provided by “studentenwerk”, which is a not-for-profit organization providing dorms, cafeterias, and counselling. Part of every students student fees are going there.
I suspect that other dorms provided by organizations related to churches may exist and they may have different organization and rules, but they are uncommon.
I think there’s an idea that 18/19-year-old college freshmen are basically overgrown children rather than being real adults, and that colleges try to act as much like “parents” as they can get away within their actual legal role as the landlord of an adult. This is, for another example, why they’re arbitrarily forbidden from getting parking passes (as discussed a few days ago in the context of why no-one seems to have a car).
There’s no rules against having sex in your room at IU, and probably not at most other secular US universities! The only reason Ruth is not supposed to have sex with Billie is because Ruth is the RA of the floor where Billie lives, and RA’s aren’t supposed to have sex or romantic relationships with people who thry have jurisdiction over, for the same reason teachers and teaching assistants aren’t supposed to have sex with students they teach.
This could all be solved by Billie putting in for a room change to a different dorm. The ONLY actual issue (that Mary knows of) is that Ruth is dating a student IN he dorm she oversees. Move Billie to a new dorm and there is no longer a problem.
well that would leave Beckie in a bad spot. Does Roz live on another floor? She strikes me as the type to to do an in name only room swap, especially if she were to find out all the crap Mary is pulling.
No. Roz was at a floor meeting.
All the main girls are in this hall. All the main guys are in the same hall as each other, too. (Actually, I’m not 100% on that second one, but 99% is pretty good. >_>)
Who’s the guys’ RA, anyway?
Hasn’t been revealed, but I suspect it’s the Trekkie RA from Roomies!.
Roz is Mary’s roommate.
Am I the only one who noticed (fairly recently) that there’s another girl who doesn’t have a roommate?
What if, after going to shit much trouble to defend Carla, Ruth gets her to take in Becky? Heck, I could see it being done officially–the girl who has just had her dad kidnap her and almost start a shooting gets to say on the same floor with her best friend, since there happened to be a room available. The school year has really just started, so they let her enroll and let her catch up.
The college would look much better in the paper for doing that rather than kicking her out. Leslie can be the one who convinces them. (Maybe with Roz helping, for delicious irony. I think finding out what she’s been doing for Becky might help turn her around.)
Of course, this resolves a lot of things, so I doubt it will happen. At least, not any time soon. But just keeping her in the room in secret could still work.
Of course, the baffling thing is that their decision is to break up instead of just having Billie move somewhere else. Is this one floor of this one dorm literally the only place available?
Moving to a different dorm wasn’t that hard when I was in college, if you wanted to.
The number of students you’ve struck, though, is at least one, so there’s that.
And she hoists people into the air by their shirts and drags them around.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-3/01-if-the-shoes-split/room/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/01-move-in-day/stragglers/
And, a couple comics after one of those, invites Billie to fight her and throws her around the room, then calls her “lardo”.
Oh, there was mary on the first link. Didn’t notice back then.
Actually 2 people she’s been shown to strike. She hit Billie in the stomach when she was running down the hall.
You have to admit, she is trying to do the right thing for the students on her floor.
Me, I think the problem is the fact that her and Billie being together IS a problem. Our RA in the dorms had a girlfriend who stayed with him all the time and it Wasn’t. A. Problem. (she was a student from a completely different dorm.)
If the administration was tolerant of Billie and Ruth being together her relationship wouldn’t tie her hands from giving Mary the smackdown she most truly deserves.
#EvenUnsafeWhateverHasStandards
#NotAllSuicidePacts
You know what would resolve the blackmail, actually be the appropriate action, and will never happen?
Ruth resigning, confessing she broke probably the biggest rule of being an R.A., and reporting Mary’s behavior to the school disciplinary board or whatever.
So, screwing over herself, her girlfreind and her college career os appropriate? Sounds more disproportionate to me.
She’s completely compromised herself in her job and has opened up the school to multi-million dollar lawsuits should anything happen to Mary that can even be construed as having happened with the foreknowledge/consent/participation of a university employee. Frankly, Carla could sue the school RIGHT NOW for emotional damages because she knows Ruth intentionally didn’t intervene to stop harassment. Heck, anything happening involving Becky could be an unmitigated legal disaster.
It’s not like she would be expelled for her relationship with Billie if she resigned and confessed, and Billie’s completely clean (aside from the drinking, for which there’s probably no physical evidence). Really, they could arguably pursue a happier relationship in the open.
No job, no college and no place to stay. Going home means giving up her girlfriend. Her girlfriend, after being involved in yet another scandal, would probably be expelled or pulled out of school. Carla is not going to sue the school, but something does need to be done about Mary. Something that won’t throw away the last few years of Ruth’s life. A more proporionate response.
I’m with tony. Ruth’s put the school in a really litigious place with how she’s handling Mary’s hate crime. From some quick googling, and feel free to correct me because I looked for all of thirty seconds, Ruth would just be fired for dating a student in her dorm specifically, and Billie would maybe get a stern talking to.
So unless I’m misreading you, the “something that must be done” about Mary kinda reads as, well, illegal. For all of Ruth’s failures, intentionally harming a student for knowing (blackmail, to put it charitably, as the heads might take it) about her rule violations seems like it’d be a great way for the school to get sued into oblivion, as they already could when Ruth didn’t report Mary’s hate crime.
I think that would be a good idea to, for the simple reason that even without Mary, Ruth does a really bad job being an RA.
She could take another job (“welcome to Galassos’. Order within a minute or I’ll put your head on a pike by the coat rack”) to keep her floating and she and Billie could spend less time sneaking around and more time on epic hatefucks.
But she’d have to spend all that time trying to father an heir on Conquest.
Ruth and Becky working the counter at Chicfila would be hilarious. 😀
Good redhead Bad redhead.
Goofy barista, Cranky barista.
I’ll just go and archive binge Questionable Content.
“WHY DID YOU LEAVE YOUR PREVIOUS DOMAIN?”
“I was ratted out for being overly mean, violent and despotic.”
“I HAVE USE FOR THAT PARTICULAR SKILLSET”
…what is it with me fanoning people working for Galasso? I didn’t knew I miss Shortpacked that much.
I’m imagining a femur collection…
You can make some pretty elaborate shapes out of knobbly lines stuck to a wall.
Gah…which strip (or sketchbook) is your grava from…I know I’ve seen it, but I can’t find it…
I… honestly don’t remember where it was originally from, but it’s one of the more popular memes in EGS slays.
It’s really difficult to judge certain things because the comic blurs the line between cartoon slapstick violence and real world violence.
I feel like it’s worth noting that Ruth’s threats do, by and large, come down to being all talk. She is capable of backing those threats up, though. The only people she’s ever laid a hand on are Billie, Mary, and Amber’s dad(unless I missed something in the archives). Two of those people, Billie and Amber’s dad’s, instigated the confrontations. After that initial confrontation, the antics between Billie and Ruth take on a very Tom and Jerry, Sylvester and Tweety, or Roadrunner and Coyote(Pick your favorite) tone that’s hard to take seriously. Amber’s dad made himself a threat and Ruth responded.
Ruth has picked intimidation as her method of keeping people in line. Not the best method, I admit, but effective. Especially with freshman who are going to see her as being a pushover authority figure they can safely ignore. Like Sarah did on day 1. It’s clear she does take her job seriously, though. She’s the first person to go check on Amber on parent’s day. She is concerned for Joyce after the incident with Toedad. And here she knows and regrets that she failed Carla. And it’s not really for her own sake that she is worried about Mary. I’d be willing to bet that most physical altercations Ruth has been involved in were instigated by the other party. The only exception we have is when Ruth slaps Mary. But that’s similarly treated as slapstick. Heh, pun intended.
So for her many faults, I don’t think the “crazed bully” label everyone seems quick to paint her with is entirely warranted.
Except at the beginning of the strip, where the only reason she didn’t physically strike Billie was the timely intervention of Amazigirl. That and stealing and deliberately damaging someone else’s property.
The point is clearly made. Ruth *is* a part of the reason that this floor is so unsafe. She was a part of that before Mary found out and would have been regardless.
And, no, being slightly less prone to physical assault doesn’t erase the past or put it fully in the past. She didn’t exactly announce to everybody that, no, physical assault and damage to personal property would no longer be her chosen methodology
So, yes, “bully” applies.
The only real question, on that front, is why Carla would have expected anything better out of Ruth, who should have been fired a long time ago.
Seriously, with the way Ruth runs the place, relying upon intimidation and a credible threat of physical violence, Carla should go ahead and report her, get her replaced, thus taking away Mary’s shield. She *was* there when Mary made the threat.
Reminder for readers: as noted above, this post got the dynamic of the scene completely backwards. Amazi-girl stopped Billie from physically striking Ruth. And in that first scene between them, Billie threw the first punch.
I make no comment on the quality of the rest of it, I just note that the base understanding of what Ruth has done has been stated incorrectly.
Although long before Amazi-girl got involved, Ruth threw the first punch (or clothesline) when she hit Billie when she was running down the hall. (This in turn lead to Billie trying to fight back, and Amazi-girl getting involved.)
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/dragon/
It strikes me as dubious to say “physically stopping someone from running” is “throwing a punch”, unless she isn’t actually permitted to do so (and she very well might not be).
I dunno, it knocks the wind out of her, knocks off her glasses, and floors her. Thats more that just a regular clothesline, she put some effort into that.
So the implication is what? Because it’s technically not a punch, it’s not an intentional act of violence? Sorry, but that just comes across as pedantic. Ruth extended her arm so that Billie would run into it with sufficient force to drop her to her knees. The only difference is that it’s Billie’s own speed that determines the force. By that logic, I could argue that Mary destroying Carla’s skates and causing her to fall wasn’t an act of violence, just deliberate destruction of property.
No? the implication is “If this is violence she’s actually, factually permitted to do, there isn’t a problem.” I don’t mean “violence she’ll get away with”, I mean “actually permitted to do.”
Alright. Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification.
I’m pretty sure that, even if physically restraining someone from running is within the scope of things Ruth is allowed to do – and I don’t think it is – accomplishing it by clotheslining them is still well over the line. That sort of maneuver could easily hurt Billie more than just punching her.
Plus, in that first scene between them, Ruth actively goaded Billie into hitting her, citing the fact that everyone would be watching her if she backed down.
You know, like a bully would.
Plus, she is good at fighting. She knew Billie wouldn’t connect, and goaded her so she would have an excuse to flip Billie and bust a chair with her own momentum. Not exactly a heroic thing to do.
Everyone acts like Mike is some sort of trickster mentor, saying horrible things to help the other characters grow, but what if it turned out that Mary, didn’t actually believe anything she said and was instead helping Carla, Billie and Ruth to grow by giving them a common enemy and teaching Ruth the dangers of her actions.
My children, you have come to me, my daughters. For who now is your mother if it is not me? I am the well spring, from which you flow. When I am gone, you will have never been. What would your world be, without me? My daughters.
* The only people she’s ever laid a hand on are Billie, Mary, and Amber’s dad(unless I missed something in the archives). Two of those people, Billie and Amber’s dad’s, instigated the confrontations.
In other comments, it has also been pointed out that:
– Ruth physically dragged Sarah to a floor meeting (pretty sure she didn’t have the authority to do that)
– Pulled Dina from an elevator
– Threw Joyce’s gloves out of the window
As for Billie initiating the confrontation, she did attempt to throw the first punch (after some goading by Ruth)… however, after that she was regularly bullied, was forcefully kissed, and had Ruth break in to her room and steal her stuff.
* It’s clear she does take her job seriously, though.
Actually, its not really clear at all. While sometimes she shows some initiative, there are also times when she’s been absent from her duties. (Remember, one time when talking to Amber, she stated “my door is always open… except when its not. Which is always”.)
About that last part: to be fair, she did end up talking to Amber, and instead of giving a platitude laden speech she recognized that Amber probably did not feel too bad about her dad getting his ass kicked.
So much ‘femur’ talk. Patellas are where it’s at for 2016. (Or whatever year it is in DoA).
Patella.Patella.Patella.Patella.Patella.Patella. 😉
I think Ruth caring about what happens to the people under her charge is a very positive sign.
I have the distinct feeling she befriended Carla the year prior.
Her whole raison d’etre is not giving a crap. Suddenly sprouting a new MO is noteworthy
…and I haven’t hit or taken property from more than three people onscreen.
Sorry, Ruth. Your despotism has never NOT been damaging for your charges.
The femur is a lie.
Holy shit. Is Ruth trying to take some responsibility for her actions?! Will she upgrade from sociopath with too much power to shitty RA?!
Given how much empathy Ruth shows, she’s nowhere close to being a sociopath.
Considering how little she does with this “empathy” I doubt it.
Ruth isn’t a sociopath, and for the record “sociopathy” is a complex mental disorder that is unfairly stigmatized as some kind of evil superpower.
I’m all for shitting on Ruth for being terrible at her job, but that just isn’t right.
Gonna get all technical here, but sociopathy and psychopathy, despite being defunct terms, are different things. Now, anti-social personality disorder (ASPD) is a spectrum, rather than one category or the other, but the old categorizations did have distinctions.
Psychopathy and sociopathy were both characterized by antisocial tendencies; lack of remorse, violence, inflated self-image, etc.
Where they differ is that psychopaths were supposedly devoid of empathy and have trouble with emotional attachments, though they typically learn how to “blend in” if their intellectual development is not stunted in some way. The stereotypical psychopath is intelligent and educated and sometimes even charming, and this isn’t without reason: A truly disquieting number of lawyers, judges, high level managers, etc., tend to test fairly high on measures of psychopathy (or they did, before the DSM changed). The reality of it is, not all psychopaths are terribly bright, but the ones that aren’t tend to be difficult to distinguish from sociopaths.
Sociopaths, meanwhile, can and frequently do have empathy. They form emotional attachments quite frequently, though that doesn’t mean they have any respect for them. They tend to be volatile, prone to outbursts and anger, and rarely plan ahead. They also tend not to respect society or its rules, and simply do whatever they feel like at the time.
Worth adding in all this that sociopaths and psychopaths aren’t innately bad people. Sociopaths have poor impulse control and their actions are usually a result of being unable to regulate their emotions. Children have similar problems, and we don’t really consider them responsible for their actions either. Psychopaths, meanwhile, may be far more common than people realize. Their lack of empathy might make it easier to slide into criminality, but nothing demands it, and, while they might be devoid of empathy, they can still feel sympathy.
Worth adding, though, that just because someone might rank high on the ASPD spectrum doesn’t mean they fall under it. Different disorders can have the same manifestations. Sometimes, it’s not a disorder at all. In Ruth’s case… Who knows? You’d need to do a proper interview with her.
Just your friendly neighbourhood infodump.
… Y’know, I wrote this post in an attempt to try and explain and even included text to try and destigmatize, but as I re-read, not sure I even did that.
People with ASPD (and, yeah, I gotta own up to this: It’s considered impolite to refer to people by their condition, such as calling them psychopaths or schizophrenia; they are people with those conditions, but they aren’t those conditions themselves) are human beings, and, as Spencer so wonderfully put it, aren’t innately evil and don’t have some sort of superpower. They’re just people. They might have some developmental issues or self-control problems, but they’re still human beings worthy of respect.
“people with those conditions, but they aren’t those conditions themselves”
Not necessarily, for example in the autistic community there is some push for use of identity first language, see here, http://autisticadvocacy.org/home/about-asan/identity-first-language/
Some people use person first language for themselves and some people use identity first language for themselves.
Personally I prefer identity first language for myself. I don’t know what the ASPD or Schizophrenic community mostly prefers though. The important thing is to refer to people how they want to be referred to I think.
Okay, ladies, here’s the plan: Sexy lesbian homicide pact.
I endorse this plan.
That IS a step up…
Okay, ya’ll are only allowed to eat with spoons from now on.
Well, if they’re already sanitizing away evidence…
WHAT? Ruth… No femurs… collected… This… It’s all… It’s all lies…
Wouldn’t a better name be ¨Mistrees of Madness¨?
You’re right, it would be more correct, and I’m all for good punctuation, grammar, and spelling (even if my own spelling is not always top notch), but I made an exception. Originally it was Lord of Madness at first, but then I went to Lordess, because I like the sound of it. I did try mistress of madness and a few similar things, but Lordess just had this ring to it that none of the others did. And I thought it sounded more original… me. Your own name is pretty cool too.
You’re right, it would be more correct, and I’m all for good punctuation, grammar, and spelling (even if my own spelling is not always top notch), but I made an exception. Originally it was Lord of Madness at first, but then I went to Lordess, because I like the sound of it. I did try mistress of madness and a few similar things, but Lordess just had this ring to it that none of the others did. And I thought it sounded more original… me. Your own name is pretty cool.
Yeah, sorry Ruth but you turned this floor into a hostile environment on day one.
That is the sad truth. And people like Mary LOVE a hostile environment.
While I appreciate Ruth doing her best to protect Carla and I am very glad that she’s doing something in preparation for going after Mary, I can’t help but think is a monumentally shitty defense. “People live in fear of my violence I never actually ACT upon it so it isn’t abusive.”
It’s a shitty defense because she never meant it to be a defense. She literally Did Not Give a Shit, therefore she was free to rule with an iron grip and be ousted by the next King of the Hill.
Then Billie came along and gave her reason to care.
Then shit hit the fan and she realized, shit, I done fucked up.
Billie is completely right that Ruth is trying to push her away again, and I’m so happy she doesn’t let her.
Of course, there are many, many things about this situation I’m not happy about, but there is at least that.
I’m a little surprised to see no mention of the cycle of abuse here. It’s pretty clear that Ruth’s upbringing was in an emotionally abusive environment, leaving her with a poorly developed idea of how to relate to people in general and a terrible concept of authority in specific. Hopefully this sequence of events will help her at least learn that there’s something wrong with her approach. (I could hope for more, but would probably be doomed to disappointment.) She does seem to have grasped the concept of unintended consequences, however late.
FEMURS
Femurs are ALWAYS the answer.
With how they’re shouting in the first 2 panels the whole floor probably knows now.
While Mary’s actions towards Carla were certainly unacceptable, I don’t agree saying she belongs with the boys is a transphobic slur. It’s certainly transphobic, but I don’t think it’s a slur per se
the solution is simple… kill and eat Mary
Why does Joe, the largest Dumb, not simply eat the other characters?
Maybe DAB should DAB interfere in all of this DAB DAB, might be DAB better for all of us DAB DAB
They’re saving that for sweeps.
Galasso is bigger than Joe. I’m not ruling out the possibility of him eating the others.
Galasso’s Pizza (and Subs) is people!
I was about to say that Billie should know the difference between actual slurs and hate being spewed at someone and empty threats like the femurs thing, but then I remembered Ruth HAS actually punch/slapped multiple people on this floor so it’s not like the threats are THAT empty.
And the one she has hit/threatened/stolen from the most has been her specifically, so she may be much less likely than most to give Ruth her free pass on “not hurting anyone”.
From Gordon’s earlier comment: “It’s really difficult to judge certain things because the comic blurs the line between cartoon slapstick violence and real world violence.”
That’s a big part of it for me. There’s just no way that Ruth actually slapping Mary in the face wouldn’t have had serious consequences. Even if Mary hadn’t reported it, somebody absolutely would, and it certainly would have become gossip enough for someone downstairs to catch wind. That’s so far out of the bounds of normalcy that there’s no way, in reality, it would go unnoticed — so the fact that it did go unnoticed led to me (and I’d imagine a lot of us) mentally downplaying it and taking it as a hyperbolic action shot that Willis played for the lulz. Same with vandalizing Billie’s cheer uniform. The narrative didn’t treat it seriously, so I didn’t mentally treat it seriously.
So our options here are that it was meant to be treated seriously, thus seen as major hypocrisy and bad behavior by Ruth here, and it was just really badly transmitted by the narrative/writing, OR it was all supposed to be taken lightheartedly as evidence of Ruth’s hardass facade, and Ruth’s concern here is real.
Or maybe I’m the only person who feels that disconnect at all. IDK. Gotta go do actual work now.
I have a harder time disassociating things as “just slapstick” when they’re basically the same thing as actual abuse but with the veneer of “it’s a joke so it’s okay.”
Like, Dorothy slapped Walky that one time, but I don’t think she’s some horrible monstrous abuser because:
– Walky said a dumb thing. The joke played it up as Walky and Joe having a private conversation only for it to be revealed that he was saying this shit right in front of Joyce and Dorothy, then the panel focuses on Joyce running away while Dorothy dope slaps him so hard his head rocks to the side. It’s played for too much laughs for me to even try to view it as “Dorothy asserting power over Walky by physically abusing him.”
– Dorothy isn’t actually an authoritative figurehead with any legit power over him, nor does she have a history of actual harmful abuse being played straight.
I’m quite curious how old some of you are, if you are a kid I’m impressed by your vocal skill, if you are an adult, congrats I guess.
I’m thirty. But how many times did Bugs and Daffy blow each other up and still get to be “good guys,” you know? How many Tom and Jerry cartoons started with Jerry being a douchebag first? How events are presented in the narrative matters.
Tom and Jerry are Funny Animals living in a consequence free world. They died in those cartoons and came back no worse for wear.
How do you discern between “Boo Ruth she’s being abusive” and “Yay Ruth she’s being abusive”? I’d rather not, really. Abuse isn’t something I feel really good about laughing about in a comic like DoA. It’s set in the real world that frequently engages in real world consequences, so I don’t think it’s possible to just arbitrarily decide that this time to say “this time it’s okay to laugh at Ruth slapping Mary/clotheslining Billie/stripping Billie in the hallway”.
*so I don’t think it’s possible to just arbitrarily decide to say “this time it’s okay to laugh at Ruth slapping Mary/clotheslining Billie/stripping Billie in the hallway.”
“How do you discern between “Boo Ruth she’s being abusive” and “Yay Ruth she’s being abusive”?”
Yeah, at the moment it’s the physically violent bully who likes tormenting people in a fix because another bully is blackmailing her but I’m not sure if I, the reader, am meant to think that about Ruth.
More than any other character, I find that Ruth is best left to individual interpretation.
I’m pretty sire you’re meant to like Ruth more after she starts dating Billie, but honestly as I look back at the older strips I’m getting more excited at the idea of their breakup, and will only really start to like her if she develops super hard in this arc
The fact that it was specifically a “dick slap” pushes it a long way into the slapstick category for me. Had she just hit Mary without the unrealistic silliness of leaving a clear magic markered dick on her cheek, the effect would have been quite different.
Right, that makes sense and I’m not gonna tell someone “nuh uh you have to view it super serial like i do”, but to me it’s that, besides the magic dick imprint, it’s Ruth physically assaulting somebody because she was annoying her. That’s something she’s done numerous times with any kind of accompanying laugh track, so I’m not up for saying “well this time it’s funny.”
To be clear, I’m not at all trying to claim that “it’s okay if it’s funny”. I’m just saying that one reason some people are seeing Ruth sympathetically here may be that the narrative framing presented her previous events as less serious, while Mary’s actions have pretty much always been played straight.
To go back to the Tom and Jerry comparison, there are times when DoA has been framed as more fluffy and silly. It’s not super serious drama all the time, despite Willis’ reputation. And the framing, pacing, writing, other events, etc. around any given event affects how the audience perceives and judges it.
It wasn’t an imprint; Ruth drew on her hand with a marker right before she slapped her. It’s marker pen.
I know. But that’s still slapstick. It still doesn’t work. You might get some blurry lines, but nothing like a nice clear image.
I was replying to Spencer. As far as slapstick goes, if we’re meant to analyze Ruth’s character, I’d definitely say that one counts for analysis. Given how physical we’ve seen her be before, I don’t think this is one of those incidents you discount. Especially not given that this is one where Mary is concerned and, hence, likely contributes to her views of Ruth and the university’s administration.
You’re not the only one, I’m having massive problems with the disconnect. The totally ridiculous car chase last arc was almost shark jumpy.
It’s also combined with a weird morality disconnect where some people are always more right than others and others can be big old d-bags because its funny.
Makes my tummy feel bad 🙁
“gleefully throwing transphobic slurs at carla” … “i’m escorting you to the boys wing where you actually belong”
Kinda hard to take seriously this level of hyperbole coming from someone who has actually assaulted people its her job to take care of. Just sayin’.
That is actually gleefully throwing transphobic slurs.
Ruth sucks at her job and when it comes to making the dorm unsafe she is in no position to throw stones, but being an asshole doesn’t mean she can’t take issue when people are being bigger assholes to people who literally cannot do anything to do deserve that kind of response, let alone when it’s her job to make sure the students she’s overseeing are protected from these situations.
“You Don’t Belong Here.”
Trans people have to hear that ALL THE TIME, subtly and… not so subtly. There is nothing in what Mary said that is in any way harmless or excusable. It is textbook discrimination and something colleges actively try to get away from.
I will refer you to Cerberus’ comment above. It was a reply, so easiest way to find it is to search for the following phrase:
Casual transphobia and its tolerance
Because it’s completely hyperbolic, of course, and not something that commonly starts a depressive suicidal spiral at all. Nope. Completely hyperbolic.
Telling a woman she doesn’t belong with other women because she wasn’t assigned female at birth. Not sure how more explicit it’s possible to get. If by slur, you mean a specific singular word designed to invalidate trans people, then no, there were no slurs of that specific type, but that doesn’t make it hyperbolic.
That’s not hyperbole, that’s a literal description of what happened. Please don’t try to downplay it.
As for assault, Billie shot first.
Calling a trans girl a boy when you know whats up is literally one of the shittiest things you can say to them. While not really a slur in the traditional sense, I’m pretty sure purposefully misgendering is as bad if not worse than the t slur or anything like it
I guess being beaten bloody and senseless by my tormenters growing up, i suffer from a bit of ‘thick skin privilage’ and should show more empathy toward Carla’s plight (this is sincerity, not sarcasm). Difficult though it may be since one of them was a similarly roller-skating twerp who had no respect for people’s peace and quiet and actually punched me in the face skating down the dorm halls once.
Regredless, my original point really being that three wrongs don’t make a right. Rather than take the high road, all three people involved in this fracas have resorted to petty, childish behavior. Its difficult to feel empathy toward Carla when she has admitted she has no compulsion to behave, because ‘everyone else gets to act the asshole to their hearts desire’. It is easy for me to consider Ruth’s statement as making a mountain out of a molehill when compared to the interactions between Mary and Carla, let alone Ruth’s poor behavior. Don’t get me wrong; I don’t condone Mary’s behavior in all this. Insults, transphobic or otherwise, are the signs of a small and petty mind. Using the ones that will hurt the most are the signs of downright mean one. However, is she the worst player in this game because she chose to escalate as well? Or is it the means by which she chose to escalate? Context and perspective seem to be easy concepts gloss over, especially when one reacts with emotion instead of reason. That’s it. Just context and perspective.
Sorry for responding specifically to you, Russ; this was intended for everyone who replied to me. Additionally, I apologize that my original comment was not better worded. I’m a lazy commenter and trying to write anything even remotely intelligent is difficult these days.
Remind me again who and what kind of people Billie and Ruth’s parents were? How do they not factor into the equation of “no one else affected”?
Billie’s parents are neglectful absentees who didn’t bother visiting for Freshman Family weekend.
Ruth’s parents are DEEEEAAAAAD and her grandfather is heavily implied to be an abusive asshole.
Dead! Very dead! Beyond dead! So dead that the dead police ran away!
One of the reasons Ruth shouldn’t go through with the whole sexy lesbian suicide pact thing is so she can be there for her little brother Howard in two years when he can get out from under grandpa.
At a minimum she needs to teach him how to pick up chicks.
…I’m really not sure she should.
Agree on the rest though.
Sometimes an irrational fear of having your femurs removed is all that keeps people from being assholes. :/
Irrational?
Your femurs can deceive you; don’t trust them.
I have so much respect for Ruth in this strip.
Yeah, she has a lot of issues and hasn’t always behaved in the best of ways, but this strip? So much respect right now.
I feel like Ruth is one of those people who would yell at you for hugging them but then yell at you again for letting go.
Even in the moment, there’s something that makes me smirk that Ruth is going Billie shitface.
*calling… not going
I know I was pointed to the character chart last time . . . but it still looks like Ruth is 3.5 inches taller than everyone else.
I’ll gladly say that Ruth pulled a Karma Houdini on all this. She was so horrible that I felt about her how I feel about Mary now. I thought she was being set up as a full-out antagonist, with over the top evilness that I just had to accept in this universe.
But then Willis totally took me by surprise, and made it where Ruth was really just depressed. Not realistically, mind you. Her actions were way over the top for that. But once you consider her actions as such, she becomes a much more sympathetic character.
She should be a lot less sympathetic than she is. But Willis has made me care about her, to think she’s ultimately a good person. Instead of processing it as horrible flaws in the character, I instead see it as a disconnect in the writing.
I’m wiling to read Ruth as “bully with a heart of gold” which covers a whole host of sins. Especially when you throw in the mental problems.
I cannot do that with Mary, as I can’t really see any redeeming factors about her, any more than I could Ruth before she became a three-dimensional character.
Personally, my take on Ruth is that she’s someone going through some things, but ultimately one who takes and finds satisfaction in anger. There’s probably a cycle-of-abuse angle in there somewhere, but I don’t really care to dig too deeply into it for this post. Put mildly, she’s someone who has shown she gets a kick out of frightening, intimidating, and dominating. I’m personally not sure why she’s suddenly so defensive about Carla when, in the past, she’s been so blasé about people’s feelings. We’ve never really seen her showing a particular compassion before, so it kinda comes out of left field.
To be honest, I’d actually like to see a character like Mary get more dimensions to her. It’s nice to see writers give depth to characters they plainly don’t agree with, and attempt to humanize and empathize with them without trying to shoehorn in sympathetic qualities. Mary’s a human being, with thoughts and feelings and concerns and an inner world as rich as anyone’s.
It was something I actually enjoyed about Joyce in her early arcs: She presented a difference of opinion that didn’t seem like it was intended to be instantly smacked down. It felt… Even-handed. Like we were actually getting to see a world populated by a wide variety of opinions; something with complexity.
I don’t think that’s where this is going, though, sadly.
I like this post, but to specifically address why Ruth is defending Carla:
Ruth has been shown to take on abusers before, almost certainly due to her own history. She threw herself between Blaine and Amber, as an example, and eventually took on telling Amber about her dad in a way beyond just stating the facts, because Ruth got that Amber didn’t actually give a shit about her dad.
So then you get Carla, who okay sure she’s kind of a butthole, but is being attacked in a way specifically using Mary’s bigotry and privilege. It’s not just an argument between two people at this point, because Carla’s being attacked for who she is. Ruth steps in because that shit doesn’t fly for her.
And, yeah, while I’m not expecting a redemption arc for Mary, I would like to at least get into her headspace before this storyline ends.
I like your name, reminds me of spiderman.
“Fwip” reminds me of Don Martin.
The majority of people are well-rounded people with both likeable and unlikeable traits.
Some people are not. There may certainly be more beneath the surface but with some people the other side of them is so buried you’re almost certainly not going to see it- often because they really don’t want to let it out.
For example, my landlord. The single nicest thing I can say about my landlord is that he’s not actively malicious. He doesn’t WANT to hurt anyone… But if he doesn’t have to witness the fallout he’ll happily pretend it’s not happening. He takes apathy to an extreme- literally all he cares about is short-term satisfaction. He’d rather complain about something if fixing it would take more effort than just putting up with it.
Is there more beneath the surface? Yes, of course. He’s lonely and sad, possibly even depressed. But nobody is ever going to be able to explore that, because he’s repressing it too much.
Is this the case with Mary? (The repression, not the sadness/loneliness.) I don’t know, but it’s not completely unrealistic if we never see her become more well-rounded. Not because she’s not but because she may never show that she is.
Dude, Ruth, respect. That takes some serious balls to admit and adhere to. You’ve earned a great deal of cool points in my book as far as DoA is concerned. (Yes, I am in fact keeping a running tally with plus and minuses throughout)
Link, or it Didn’t Happen.
Oi, Willis, when will the cast page be updated? Characters who are pretty important, like Jason, Raidah, Leslie, Mary (now), and hopefully Jocelyne (will) deserve spots on the cast list.
*personally, i want gay chikfila guy, but he needs a name first
I’m not sure how often the cast page is updated, but the cast page does list the characters in order of number of appearances. So I’d say all the characters you mentioned have shown up less than all of the characters who are on the cast page. (Not that it means that they’re less important. They just show up less often)
Clearly, Mary needs to lose a femur.
but the girl has a bite/better far than her bark/and you bet I’ll bite too/do what’s truly taboo/as I’m pulled in a new direction
Mary makes herself 100% worse when she says transphobic slurs. It’s as bad as being deliberately racist and sexist. It’s worse. She’s actively, on purpose being horrible.