Toedad: “Heeeeeloooo young man, I’m looking for my daughter to abuse.”
Toedad: “Young man?”
Danny: “Sorry, flashback. Oh, of course. I know how this goes down. Please follow me to this rainy parking lot and we can go straight for the last act.”
Toedad: “Is that a pokeman game you are fiddling with, I’m praying for your soul.”
Danny: “It’s a DS, and I’m only using the chat function. Yeah, I’m kinda praying for your soul too right now…”
*Deep voice from shadow behind Toedad* “Hello, Ross MacIntyre…”
*coughs up blood* “Why would Joyce want to come to this cesspool of violence? And to think my already straying child would be drawn into this sinful place to see her…” “Now, for the last time, leave this place! You do not get to see her…”
“I AM HER FATHER! I know what she needs, and I will rehabilitate her through any means necessary…” “No, you won’t…”
It makes me so sad that this will probably end the Danny/Amber relationship. I really hope they work it all out, I know cheating is hard but missing your best lover is harder.
I figure the Danny/Amber relationship will end because Amber will find out about Becky and her neurosis will dictate that Amazing Girl has to rat her out because she’s breaking university rules.
Danny won’t take it well because he doesn’t understand why Amber would feel she has to do so to avoid breaking down. So she loses him and breaks down anyway, starting a story arc where we learn that Amazing Girl is actually a HORRIBLE coping mechanism.
In his hurt he ends up in the supportive (and so strong!) arms of Ethan. Maybe in a year or so real time, Amber returns to college from the mental hospital, hopefully a bit more stable and well adjusted. Maybe her and Danny reconcile and become good friends, but the romantic aspect is long dead.
There are so many easy and sensible ways for the Amber and Danny relationship to fall to pieces, Willis is spoiled for choices. There’s Danny banging Ethan, Danny being chums with Sal, Amber getting Becky booted, Danny blabbing Amber’s secret, Danny doing something illegal and getting caught, and that’s just the low-hanging fruit.
I think it will be Sal, just because there is comedy potential in Amber dumping him for liking someone that isn’t Ethan, and realising that that was what she should have been dumping him for later.
But yeah, their relationship is a mine field waiting to blow. I can’t say if they’ll work it out in the end or not, but there’s no way they’re getting through without a breakup of some kind. Not with that myriad of ways things can go wrong.
I still lean towards Becky. There’s an extra angle of tragedy to it because she’d also has a chance to fail to explain to Ethan why she wouldn’t help a gay girl who was running from her awful dad even while she pushed him out of the closet. It puts her in the position of losing everything and makes the emotional collapse all the more inevitable.
When you put it like that, It seems highly unlikely Amber or Amazi-Girl would do something like that. Amazi-Girl was created because of an abusive parent, so both personas would be sympathetic to Becky.
Would be sympathetic, but Amazi-girl is still pathologically bound by the rules, while enforcing them with criminal acts of violence. That’s why it would lead to a breakdown.
She explained this herself. “I have to abide by my rules. I have self-imposed guidelines which are the reason I exist.” She doesn’t get to choose, because she’s deathly afraid that this will lead to a loss of control.
We can call Amazi-girl cool all we want, but the truth of the matter is that she’s HORRIBLY DAMAGED and needs help, preferably before her house of cards collapses.
@Smiling Cat
Okay you have a point, but if she is willing to enforce her rules with criminal violence, what’s to say those rules necessarily imply sending Becky off with her dad?
Not only that… Amber had the opportunity to report people at the party for underage drinking. The fact that she did not shows she has at least some flexibility in her moral code.
@ NoName: There’s no way she’d turn Becky over to Ross, but she might get her kicked out of the dorm.
I don’t think she will, but it could happen if she gets hung up on compensating for letting everyone off the hook for drinking.
@ Smiling Cat – Remember when Amazi-Girl confronted Joyce about the Whiteboard Dong Bandit incident? She did have Joyce clean off the whiteboards, but she never told anyone who did it or alerted the proper authorities. Amazi-Girl solves problems on her own and in her own way, whether it’s by beating up the “criminals” or bringing rubbing alcohol and offering to help with the cleaning. I have a hard time believing that she’d try to get Becky kicked out, but she might try helping her find a more permanent solution.
Considering Amber also has an abusive (albeit a different kind of abusive) dad I sincerely doubt she’d rat out becky. Unless she doesnt hear about that part.
Realistically, I think the plot’s been moving towards it for a very long time now. And I’m surprised at the number of people tying themselves in knots in this comment section because they can’t read the plot telegraph.
DYW installed that plot device a looong time ago but I’m sure it is still in working order. He has plotted very carefully in the past, so I don’t think that was a red herring.
As long as everyone is on board and consenting, they could make a pretty great triad, I think. Except that they’re freshman year college students with limited relationship experience, so…
On the list of things of what will probably break up Danny and Amazi Girl, I think Danny finding Ethan attractive is pretty far down tbere. Between Danny not really understanding why Amber has the Amazi Girl persona, and the fact that Amber has admitted that the thought of being separated from Danny might cause her to lose it, along with some other things (like Possibly misunderstanding Danny’s relationship with Sal) there’s really no shortage of things that can cause a breakup that don’t involve cheating.
Funny I was just thinking that look is similar to the one right after the cute girl talks to you and your like hmm? Me? *looks around* come on Viking don’t mess this up.
i know that it’s supposed to be friendly, but that kabuki mask is the most terrifying face that i have ever seen danny make. friendly danny is just a truck waiting to happen
Oh, nice catch. I saw the clank, but didn’t see it’s name when I looked at that page. (Which is why it popped in my head). Ah jeez, that opens up even more questions.
That’s not Danny. That’s his secret persona “Doesn’t-fuck-things-up-dude”. Since HE is not dating Amazigirl he is free to flirt with anyone he likes.
Also, he’s immune to criticism.
NOTE: I really didn’t intend that to be as caustic as it turned out. I think Amber handles a shitty situation in a remarkably constructive manner and I know that her sometimes unfair treatment of Danny is not out of malice but from insecurities and fallout from her trauma.
I also think that Danny’s complete lack of personal borders is part of the problem (and an understandable consequence of HIS baggage).
Their relationship has serious problems. I honestly think a breakup is one of the better outcomes at this point. But finger pointing wouldn’t help anyone.
BUT all that said, my quip above WOULD be a not-too-unfair-comeback to some of Amber’s snapping at Danny in the line of “back off, you are not dating Amber”
Actually, I’m pretty sure that they never bang when Amber is “Amber”. Only when she’s Amazi-Girl. It’s honestly one of my biggest gripes with Amber, whom I otherwise very much like.
They’ve only banged, like, twice. And I haven’t read the Mask Or No Mask? Slipshine, but just the fact that she asked that indicates she’s comfortable banging Danny as either.
Many have speculated that it would break Amber if she were to discover that Danny has a crush on Ethan. I’ve thought about that myself.
Then, earlier this evening, a twist occurred to me. We know that Danny is staunchly monogamous, and Ethan doesn’t strike me as particularly sexually adventurous. Amber, however…..
There’s a couple of other comics of interest on that topic, which I’m too lazy to hunt down. There’s one where Amber was up all night reading slash fanfiction, and another where Amber saw Jacob, and considered him as a potential love interest for Ethan. When Ethan told her that Jacob is straight, Amber’s response (paraphrased) was, “Not according to the fanfic I’m writing in my head right now.”
It would be an interesting twist if Amber decides it’s awesome once she’s confirmed that Danny is still attracted to her. She may decide she’s totally up for a threesome. Naturally, Danny and Ethan would be completely weirded out by that prospect.
I dunno, there’s a BIG difference between something being hot when it’s presented for your entertainment (as a great deal of dude on dude is) and when it’s, you know, real. Amber… really might be able to handle it! I won’ say she can’t. But it seems a bit iffier than you might otherwise think.
Yeah, I know there’s an important distinction there. I don’t actually think that particular outcome is all that likely. It’s just something I imagined that would make an interesting twist.
That was due to years and years of pent up sexual frustration and the fact that they were married. Amber wanted someone who was actually into her, no pun intended, and Ethan just wanted to bang a dude. It’s not the threeway that was appealing so much as the chance for penis.
I’m guessing Amber, having helped Ethan through his coming-out process, is very familiar with the existence of bisexuality. I expect that her discovering Ethan & Danny’s mutual attraction with indeed be anticlimactic. Remember that the “inciting incident” of Ethan’s coming out was inability to have sex with Amber, and Danny explicitly was relieved that he still could and wanted to. Amber is a good detective, she’ll connect the dots.
Umm, why is my comment awaiting moderation? I’ve posted here before using the exact same email and username multiple times. Did I do something wrong? Am I on probation? What’s going on?
And yet my comment about my comment awaiting moderation isn’t awaiting moderation. It just posted. Fascinating. Maybe I just included too many links in the previous one and that sets off some sort of red flag feature.
Whatever, that post basically consisted of wild speculation, and me obsessing over fictional characters, as I’m prone to do. Either the comment passes moderation or it doesn’t. The universe isn’t likely to explode from either outcome.
Yup, two preview panels for upcoming comics, and one earlier comic that involved Amber dreaming of a threesome.
Apparently, I should only link sparingly. Lesson learned — at least until I see a squirrel playing with something shiny and immediately forget all of this.
Now that it’s been mentioned, that is a very creepy Danny face. Run Ethan. No wait, you’re watching for Toedad.
Yeah, I’d like to see them make it together.
Amber needs to get rid of Danny. This is the guy that dumped her when she was hurting so bad she was close to just curling up in a ball and never unwinding. And why did he do that? Because he was fixated on Amazing-Girl.
Never has figured out they are one and the same. Yup, dumb as a box of rocks.
Amber will be hurt. But, he is screwing over her self esteem big time by wanting her to ‘wear the mask’ when they have sex. And she is feeding it by not letting him announce he’s going with her – Amber. Which is just stupid.
So yeah, bye bye Danny. Maybe have a more realistic relationship with Ethan.
Interesting take. I’ll grant that Danny took a few days to realize Amazi-girl was Amber, almost as long as the reporter dedicated to figuring it out. But how do you “dump” someone who tells you themselves they are only pretending to be your girlfriend for your parents?
And when Danny asked to be Amber’s boyfriend instead of Amazi-girl’s, and she told him no, what is he doing that is anything but supportive to the best of his abilities? Aside from hitting on Ethan, I mean, but you seem to like that part.
To be fair to Danny he has NO IDEA how messed up Amber really is. He knows she uses Amazi-Girl as an outlet, but he hasn’t clicked yet that this is an unhealthy outlet instead of a healthy one. I mean he has been pretty preoccupied with his own issues and when you’re girlfriend seems ok, a bit of a stickler for rules but ok w’evs, and you’re subconsciously checking out her ex-boyf, no wonder he isn’t going to be so Amber focused.
Even then, he’s still always been there for Amber/Amazi-Girl when she really needs him. Also when did he dump her?? When she forced him to pretend they were going out, when he adamantly said he wasn’t comfortable with that? And the mask/superhero thing is one of Danny’s kinks – hot superhero girlfriend?? yess. At that point he hadn’t realised that Amber and Amazi-Girl are ‘two different people’
I feel everyones a bit unfair to Danny sometimes, yeah he’s a bit slow and makes dumb decisions, but he’s not a dick. We all have a bit of Danny inside us. wait uh
That’s not how it is. Like at all. Danny never dated Amber, she just spontaneously said she was his girlfriend during the parent visit and he was uncomfortable with it cuz he was dating Amazi-Girl and he didn’t know at the time that they were the same person. Amber herself is the one who insists that Danny is dating Amazi-Girl and not Amber because she seems to think Amber doesn’t deserve anything good or nice. Danny doesn’t realize that cuz he’s kinda dense at times but he has shown his irritation at Amber’s insistence that he is dating AG and not Amber as evidenced by their argument after Joyce’s party and has tried to suggest he break up with AG so he can date Amber but she won’t let him.
I thought she said she couldn’t date him as Amber because everyone already knew he was dating Amazi-girl, and they look similar enough that if he suddenly started showing up dating Amber, her secret identity would be blown. She said that’s why she still has the same stupid hairstyle she wore for prom, even though she likes Amazi-girl’s messed-up hair way better. But if Amber adopts it, again, blooey for the secret identity.
Which probably isn’t really all that secret anyways, but whatevs.
Well he did figure out who Amazi Girl was quicker than anyone else, including Dorothy. ( Quicker than anyone other than people who knew her from before college like Ethan). And when he friend dumped Amber, he had no idea what else she went through that day. There was no possible way for him to realize what she went through because Amber never talked about it. And if you don’t know that Amber = Amazi Girl, then what Amber did was really creepy.
But I have the feeling I’ve said this exact thing thing to Idontcarenomore before and never got a response, so I don’t know.
Danny, you are being too adorable for words.
Ethan. You too.
Help Amber deal with her obvious mental issues together while also making out. Together. Though without Amber. It probably wouldn’t work with you three.
That smile is really nice. the first time. The second time it’s pretty frightening. I kinda expect a crack to appear, or for a high pitched laughing sound to start while his face is like that.
See it’s funny and not totally awful because Danny’s bi, and since Danny’s bi his current relationship with a woman is stupid and irrelevant, and we should totally ignore it because he’s supposed to hook up with the other LGBT guy in the entire cast. Why does Danny even exist if not to make googly eyes at Ethan? Honestly, Sucking Ethan’s dick is his true calling. Fuck all that “coming to terms with his sexuality and what it means to him” shit.
Whoa. That’s a pretty extreme perspective. I mean, I’m totally down with the idea of Danny’s attraction to Ethan ‘causing drama and I’m firmly in the camp of wanting to see a homoerotic Slipshine because of my lifetime of having difficulties finding proper representation in media. Heck, I’d even going so far as to cheer on Ethan/Danny while still being aware of problems and pain that would be caused by the two hooking up to someone they both care about, but I don’t think that I can support stuff like claiming that bisexuality makes prior relationships “stupid and irrelevant” or that Danny exists only for making “googly eyes” at Ethan and “sucking his dick”. It’s a bit too radical, in my opinion.
I mean, I get where you’re coming from. It sucks that LGBT representation is hard to come by! Even though things have come so far from the ’90’s or 00’s, where most mainstream representation of LGBT characters was a joke where the punchline was “LGBT peeps exist”, we still seem to have a huge problem showing LGBT sexual and romantic relationships in our media. I know this can be frustrating and I know it often makes people so desperate for representation that they will either enthusiastically embrace even the hint of characters in LGBT pairings or they will “queer” media by inventing non-canon pairings between characters, but what you’re talking about is something else entirely that’s almost a bizarre caricature of that sort of behavior.
But, if I’m being honest, I do have to admit I think there’s room for compromise. I think that being attracted to people in inconvenient ways, making mistakes in the expression of your sexuality, and sometimes even hurting people because of confused or “difficult choices is what “coming to terms with sexuality and what it means” is all about. Especially for young adults experiencing independence for the first time. So, despite the fact that I can’t fully embrace your opinions, I do think that Danny and Ethan’s relationship might have great dramatic potential that could be exploited by the artist.
Plus, we might get to seem them smooch again which would be totally adorbs!
I can’t be fine with Danny and Ethan getting together anymore. I can’t, because Willis and this community has constantly displayed a fundamental disrespect to the validity of Queer Male agency. Because Willis decided that a single gay dude and a character literally written as bi to be his love interest was enough in his massively Queer-friendly series, where all forms of marginalized groups are treated with respect, dignity, and agency. Except Queer dudes. They get to fill a fucking notch again.
I would fucking love to be as enthusiastic as everyone else about Danny and Ethan getting together, but I can’t. I can’t ignore the hollering and hooting over how Danny is required to hook up with Ethan, and how his entire validity as a character, how his validity as a bisexual man, is predicated on ending his relationship with a woman so he can get together with the only man who can reciprocate his feelings. I can’t ignore Willis’ constant shipping of the two while Danny is involved with Amber, something he would fucking never, in a million goddamn years, ever do to any of his straight or LGBT female cast members, while simultaneously paying lip service on his tumblr to how offensive it is for people to demand he leave Amber.
Of course I want more M/M romance in fiction. I want to be happy about Danny and Ethan’s romance, but I can’t. How am I supposed to participate in a series that bases a bisexual man’s worth on entering into a same-sex relationship? Danny and Ethan deserve better than being Dumbing of Age’s Flagship Representative M/M Romance. Becky and Dina aren’t The Gay Lady Couple. Neither are Billie and Ruth, Marcie and Malaya, or Mandy and Grace.
But, you know, I’m so fucking used to seeing really awful shit about LGBT men in series I love, so I guess DoA is just another one on the pile.
Would it have been easier if one of the other bisexual characters in DoA (Billie, Ruth, Marcie) was hooking up with a dude instead?
I mean, yeah, I do see an issue. There aren’t really any bisexuals that are currently dating opposite gendered people, outside of Danny, and that seems on the brink. But I’ll give Danny the benefit of the doubt and say that this is a very new experience for him and Ethan is his first major dude crush. For all we know he could have been the same with Dorothy.
It’s weird that QC’s Dora is probably the best example of bisexuality I can think of. Nobody batted an eye about who she was dating.
Well I mean, that’s not really what I’m getting at. I guess there’s something to be said about bi-erasure and how we treat bisexuals as “switching teams” depending on who they date, or how they “don’t count” unless they’re in a same sex relationship.
Even the cutesy shipping moment we have here is super aggravating, because Willis is treating it as something valid and romantic for Danny to engage in, even though he’s already in a relationship and is super serious about monogamy. You will never see Walky making googly eyes at, say, Joyce, and it being treated as foreshadowing to a future romance while he’s currently dating Dorothy. Danny, meanwhile, because he’s the Bi Dude Who Is Going To Date Ethan, gets to engage in this behaviour. It’s indicative of incredibly ugly, stereotypical views of bisexuality, and Danny is being treated with a different rulebook compared to every single other romance in the entire series.
Saying it’s not “valid” to find someone attractive, especially when you’re still coming to terms with your sexuality, when you’re dating someone else, is almost as bad as Joyce trying to stamp out all lust in her heart. It’s ok to feel feelings, as long as you’re honest with yourself and those affected by them. Danny’s on a journey to self-awareness and honesty, and his feelings are valid.
I’m not saying it’s wrong for Danny to find Ethan attractive, I’m saying it’s wrong that this is being used as a Ship Tease moment for the two while Danny is still in a relationship, specifically because it treats them getting together as an inevitability.
Do you have documentation for this “inevitability?” You keep treating this as if this is something Willis has guaranteed will happen, and I don’t think most of us remember anything of the sort. If he said there will be Male/Male sex, that doesn’t guarantee it either does it?
It is pretty much inevitable, Willis mentioned ages ago he made Danny bi so that Ethan could have a male love interest, at some point.
Willis didn’t start writing dudes who were into other dudes until he introduced Ethan in Shortpacked. Naturally the only other dudes who are into dudes were Ethan’s boyfriends from said comic. As Willis does not want to retread a lot of the same notes romantically he needed someone new for Ethan to play with. This meant either creating someone entirely new or exploring a new aspect of an existing male character. of his male characters Danny was perfect: his sexuality had never really been explored as he’d been pushed into the far background just as the character had grown to the point he was willing to admit his sexual feelings existed, he shared many similarities with Ethan as well as several key differences.
Hey, I’m right there with you. It’s so frustrating to see fantastic queer characters ruined by things that haven’t happened yet. I am so disappointed in the future Dumbing of Age comics, where the characters have all done things that I assume will undermine all the wonderful complexity and nuance the characters currently have.
Also, I’m surprised at how blatantly racist that I’m assuming the comic will get! I really thought that there was a fantastically diverse cast of characters, but then I imagined all the characters making racially insensitive remarks and it was awful. I can’t believe that the artist would potentially do something like that in the future. They should be ashamed of themselves.
The agency of queer characters in this comic has been undermined because of something that hasn’t happened yet and may never happen! The entire character arc about someone coming to terms with their sexuality is RUINED FOREVER and all bisexuals are being portrayed as scandalous cads!
I’m not angry about shit that hasn’t happened yet, I am angry about the things Willis is currently doing.
Danny has a girlfriend. Willis thinks it’s okay for a bi dude who is by all accounts a serial monogamist to be romanced with a guy while he’s currently in a relationship. This isn’t just some cutesy solo moment, which would still be fucking bad either way, this is meant to lead to them hooking up later down the line, which Willis has explicitly confirmed as eventually happening. All this while Danny is still dating someone.
Has he explicitly confirmed that Danny/Ethan would happen? Or just that a M/M Slipshine would happen at some point? There’s quite a difference there. In any case, knowing Danny I would expect him to friend dump Ethan rather than cheat on Amazi Girl. He basically did the same thing to Amber back when he didn’t realize she was Amazi Girl.
And eventually this might lead to him doing something awful, like breaking up with Amber in order to date someone different in college!
But whatever happens, we can be sure that it will be portrayed as entirely positive with no consideration for how it affects Amber or how it might show Ethan and Danny in a negative light. Because to date, the strip has delighted in showing Ethan and Danny as always being right and never making mistakes while never bothering to show how actions that might be good for one person might result in pain or heartbreak for another person.
And the terrible actions of Ethan and Danny, which have not actually happened yet but will almost certainly be portrayed completely positively and without consequence, will be a blight on the representation of bisexuality in the comic. Because one character out of the five confirmed bisexuals in the comic did something wrong.
@Lord Stoneheart: He has. He’s talked a lot about how he’d be “missing out” by only writing them as friends on his tumblr.
@MGTen: Kind of a non-sequiter,; do you read comics at all? Over in X-Men a long established character came out as gay, and I was really happy about it before I actually read the story and it was as cloying, awful and offensive as possible. Should I be happy that this guy was told by someone else that he was gay and that bisexuality wasn’t a real thing, just because it was “representation”? Should I be happy when, on another occasion, a writer hooked up two long hinted dude characters together, one of whom was bi, only for said writer to decide that he was never bi at all, that he was always lying about being attracted to women, and he was always “fully gay”? Does representation inherently count even when it’s flawed?
I think I’ve made my stance pretty clear: you can never criticize the portrayal of any LGBT character and must embrace any representation, no matter how flawed, without commentary or question.
This is why I demand that everyone stop criticizing LGBT characters instead of just mocking the criticisms I think are dumb or petty with poorly written sarcasm and snide remarks.
You know how Danny wouldn’t have sex with Billie, who by all accounts is very attractive, because he still felt committed to Dorothy, even though she’d broken up with him? There’s no damn way he’d cheat on Amber/AG even when he comes to terms with his bisexuality. Shipping doesn’t mean it’s going to happen, guys; just means some people want it to.
Because “A bi guy subconsciously flirted with a gay dude, this means that the bi guy’s existence in the comic is just to fill some M/M quota!” is a reasonable representation of the text and doesn’t ignore that said bi character is his own developed character with plot threads separate from his current girlfriend and the guy he’s currently flirting with.
Though that interpretation is kinda of funny when we consider that one of the Danny’s main flaws is to judge his self worth based on whoever he’s currently dating. If Danny breaks up with Amazi Girl, eventually dates Ethan, but hasn’t changed his views on relationships in general then I would predict that Danny/Ethan would be a doomed relationship as well
Danny does, because since he’s bi, and was literally written to be bi so he could hook up with Ethan because Willis wanted him to have a love interest, then it’s okay I guess. It’s okay for hyper-monogamous bi dudes who are so into commitment that they try to end friendships out of fear of cheating and won’t have casual sex because they’re interested in someone else to start schmoozing over hot guys.
Becky has just (barely) come to terms with not being straight. Billie, whether or not she has dated girls, is implied to have hooked up with whatsername, the cheerleader who she went to high school with. Walky doesn’t seem to angst very much, and probably wouldn’t super care if he turned out to be bi.
Danny is coming to terms with his sexuality as we speak. Him realizing he’s attracted to guys, and even telling Amber he is, is NOT the same as him cheating and doesn’t necessarily lead to them breaking up.
Yes, it would suck for Willis to break Amber/A-G & Danny up just for Danny & Ethan to get together, and no I don’t think that will happen because a lot of time and energy has been invested in making their relationship multilayered and compelling.
And a dude realizing he’s interested in other dudes while still dating a girl is a very compelling story, and DOESNT HAVE TO END IN THE TWO DUDES DATING.
Billie does not subconsciously flirt with anyone. (Well actually if there was any bi character that I think would cheat on their partner with someone who’s the opposite sex of their partner, I would guess it would be Billie way before I would guess Danny. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/market/)
And I object that Danny was written as bi simply so he could be a love interest for Ethan. Someone who always thought of themselves as straight coming to terms with being bi isn’t a story that is saturating the story market out there. And that’s what Danny is going through here. The fact that the object of his affection is the only other major male character that is also interested in dudes is simply the result of the cast being focused on the ladies. (Though they aren’t the only two LGBT males in the cast. But Brian and Mike are very minor characters). If you want to see Danny as being a secondary character who’s sole purpose is to be Ethan’s love interest then I guess you can do that, but don’t project your views onto everyone else.
Except Danny was written as bi to be Ethan’s love interest. I love the strips where he’s trying to work through his confusion with Dorothy, or when he talks with Ethan at the Questioning meeting, because it wasn’t just shipping fuel bullshit like this one. Those stories were about Danny and Danny’s struggles. Those strips don’t treat Danny’s relationships and personal agency as a speedbump to blowing Ethan.
I am keenly aware that this is a lady-focused series and seriously, more power to Willis. We need more series that treat women with agency and focus like DoA does. That doesn’t mean I have to be okay with the decision to include a single gay dude, and then write another dude as bi just so they can date. There’s a handful of prominent male characters, why are they straight? Why is having two dudes who can date enough? How the fuck is it not totally offensive to see that there’s two compatible guys and decide “yup, that’s enough. Don’t worry everyone, they’re totally gonna bang”?
Those strips you said you liked? They don’t exist in a vacuum. They are all part of Danny’s story. This strip doesn’t exist in a vacuum either. Even if Danny was written as bi to give Ethan a love interest (an assumption you constantly make that I’m not sure where it’s coming from) at this point in time there is more to Danny coming to terms with being bi that don’t involve Ethan at all.
But I’m tired of making posts and having large parts of them ignored just so you can accuse me here of seeing a character as a prop despite me saying nothing of the sort. To quote another character, “It’s been fun. Weird and fun. Mostly weird.”
Once again, Spencer confuses “Does not make him, personally, happy” with “denies the agency of bi dudes”. Yet again. I ain’t gonna tell you to be happy with the commentariat – As much as there are bi dudes what aren’t you pulling for this ship, there’s plenty of straight women (Ain’t got nothing against gay men here). But for a guy who allegedly cares about the long term consequences… you know that if he weren’t attracted to Ethan, there’d be no bi representation, right? You know if he stays with amber, eh’s ‘really straight’, right? Jesus fucking christ.
And don’t fucking lie about what strips made you happy – when Danny came out to Dotty and got help? You were fucking livid. Because he didn’t know what a Bisexual was, and that was fucking offensive to you. Because you act like you’re the god damn emperor of bi men. Just shut the fuck up, seriously.
I’m pretty much always going to be embarrassed by that moment, which I totally deserve.
You’re right. I acted like an absolute, unmitigated jackass because I had decided that Danny not knowing what bisexuality was because Willis was, obviously, failing to treat bisexuality with respect. That I, being a bi dude, very clearly knew more than a professional writer who had written about these issues for years, so therefore anything that didn’t fall into my definition of right was clearly an aberration, and I never just shut the fuck up about it.
And Willis, more politely than I deserved, told me off for my bullshit. How I was being incredibly hurtful to people who have actually lived through this and demeaning their struggles. That I was making his website unsafe for those people and treating it like a place for me to sling shit all over the place.
I was wrong. I know I was wrong. There’s never going to be a time or context where I wasn’t wrong. I appreciate it now because I have a better understanding of the real issues of other bisexual people I was denying because I was an ignorant, shortsighted asshole.
I mean you’re wrong about everything else, as usual. I obviously find the way this story has been handled to be offensive, pretty sure other people don’t, and somehow I feel pretty okay about that. Nobody has to agree with me. Willis doesn’t have to throw all his plans out because some fat asshole on the internet isn’t happy with them, but I genuinely feel pretty okay talking about it.
It would be pretty rad to be the Emperor of Bi Men, though.
PS: I have literally never stated it’s wrong for Danny to be attracted to Ethan, and even if he weren’t, he’d still be a bi dude. I definitely think the expectation that, because of his sexuality, Danny needs to get with Ethan is offensive, but that’s two separate things.
Ah, of course, now you begin the ritual 3 refusings of the crown. You have, quite consistently, behaved as the only queer with an opinion what counts on the matter of Danny (I won’t say ‘bi dudes’ in general, because you clearly see a lot of yourself in Danny, and I don’t know that you’d do this with anyone else. I do empathize with seeing yourself in a character, and wanting it done right, at least). That you do not state it outright does not change what you’re doing. You won’t be the first yoof, nor the last. I just hope you fucking quit it at some point (And no, this ain’t cutting it – You never appear to take this shit into consideration. Want anyone to believe you are? Fucking act like it when not called on it.)
You aren’t ‘okay’ with other people finding t not offensive. You state these things as absolutes, and you second guess everyone who disagrees with you’s motives. You’ve written broad swaths of commentariat off as things that don’t exist, or things that are what you’re complaining about, even when they’re explicitly not.
He was written as bi to be a love interest. That doesn’t mean he was written as bi to “hook up with Ethan.” Princess Leia is a love interest for Luke in the first Star Wars movie. Arya is a love interest for Eragon all throughout the Inheritance series. Misty is a love interest for Ash in Pokemon. I could name dozens and dozens of examples, but the fact is that you have yet to convince me that Danny and Ethan are ever going to even acknowledge that they find each other attractive.
Love interests don’t necessarily screw each other, and characters being written not as “just friends” don’t necessarily bang either. You’re squawking angrily about queer representation, but asserting at the same time that it’s impossible for a gay man and a bi man to be attracted to each other without acting on it.
One of my best friends is bisexual, and believe me, I’m attracted to him. If he weren’t married, I seriously doubt he and I would ever get together, but our relationship would probably not be best defined as “friendship.”
I have multiple relationships that are like that, with a spark of the romantic or the sexual that pushes them outside of the bounds of “friendship” and involves some aspect of how people attract me, but I am rather noticeably not screwing these people because human sexuality isn’t strangers-acquaintances-enemies-friends-fuckbuddies-dating-married any more than it is straight-bi-gay-ace.
Danny is bi.
He’s attracted to Ethan.
This is an aspect of his life.
But according to you, if Willis writes him as responding to this aspect of his life in reasonable and normal ways, that’s offensive because flirting must always lead to fucking.
Maybe they’re just going to be people who flirt with each other. I’ve had relationships that consist almost exclusively of flirting before, and that’s perfectly fine. Get over your narrow definitions of what people can and cannot be to each other, or at least stop complaining because Willis is writing a relationship that doesn’t fit them.
Also, if the story really offends you that badly, might I suggest that you stop reading it? I’m sure we could all link you to things that you might like better, and at this point it looks like you’ve ticked off enough people that many would be happy to see you go.
I can understand getting upset and worried because bi men’s representation is so often handled so unbelievably awful (I get the same sinking worry when an ace character starts to appear in a work), but it’s worth noting that love-interest doesn’t equal boning or “will end up together”. Having Danny be potentially a person that Ethan could end up with (not will) means we can explore new ground with Ethan than in Shortpacked and there’s more ways to keep him connected with the cast now that he’s growing more comfortable with his sexuality. He can serve as a queer mentor to Danny, have little flirty meet-cutes that don’t necessarily go anywhere, and he has someone who kind of understands who is in the main cast and going to get screen time to talk about his own stuff with.
And that kinda fixes one particular limitation that Ethan’s character faced in Shortpacked. All his relationships in that universe were with limited screen time extras so there was rarely an opportunity to discuss things regarding his identity with many of the major characters outside of on a general queer level with Leslie.
And yeah, shippers are going to ship (and sometimes annoyingly so) because queer people in love are cute and we’re always so starved for enough of it in our media.
But oh, to answer a point from earlier that’s only tangentially related:
And as far as “unconsciously flirt” there was the whole exchange with Becky that led Joyce to conclude that they were flirting with each other and had Becky confirming it albeit as a tactic to try and get Joyce to open up about the feelings Becky at the time assumed she had.
Walky in particular is pretty flirty overall, because he has a charismatic type personality when he cares enough to show it.
Don’t be silly, Danny’s relationship with a woman isn’t silly because he’s bi, it’s silly because she’s batshit nuts, he doesn’t understand her at all, and the whole thing is built on lies and manipulation.
It’s really not surprising the fanbase prefers to focus on the possibility that is 1) emotionally stable 2) cute as hell and 3) something we don’t already have 4) not obviously doomed to end in fire.
You’ll notice people only started focusing on how “batshit nuts” and unstable Amber was for Danny when he started getting shipped with Ethan. Until then it was, of course, about how Danny is a stupid jackass who doesn’t appreciate her. Now that there’s a man he can hook up with, well of course Amber is super flawed and crazy and liable to snap.
You’re forgetting that we only learned just how batshit nuts she was right before Danny and Ethan started spending time together. It’s literally the reason they started hanging out together.
Well, yes, I’ve been saying it for years. But the comic didn’t make clear that she was barely holding together until she had her breakdown when Blaine kidnapped Danny, afterward he started hanging out with Ethan.
It probably started to emerge after Amber started getting really technical about their relationship. The whole ‘you’re not dating me, you’re dating Amazi-Girl’ was just pointing to a shipwreck.
I mean, people were also waiting for Joyce/Ethan to ship, because that was a terrible relationship. Billie/Ruth is possibly the next most poisonous, but I think people are still hanging on and hoping for a resolution to that situation.
Exactly like those two examples of bisexual characters that have only ever been portrayed as being in a relationship with a member of the same sex and that other example of someone that was only portrayed as being in a relationship with members of the same sex until a later strip showed her being attracted to a member of the same sex.
Of course, that still leaves DoA Billie who has shown sexual attraction to both genders.
Man, for a poorly represented group in this comic, there’s a lot of bisexuals that have been shown expressing their sexuality on-screen in a number of different ways!
Well written bi ladies in a series explicitly designed to be almost entirely about women isn’t equivalent to the single bi dude, one of two LGBT dudes in the cast, getting shipped with another guy because he was literally written as bi to be shipped with a dude.
I know that I prefer bisexual dude’s to never, ever be shipped with other dudes. It’s the only way we can have excellent representation of bisexual guys. after all.
I kind of like it when their current relationships aren’t ignored just so they can eyes at hunky boys. I like it when bi dudes don’t solely exist in a series just to fill a notch.
What if we thought that Amber was in a really unhealthy place way before Danny and Ethan even started talking to each other? (I’m pretty sure people have been calling Amber crazy ever since the first chapter of book 4, and Danny and Ethan didn’t really start having their kinda of flirty relationship until the last chapter of that book. That’s several months of difference in our time there)
Of course she is. That’s kind of secondary to what I’m actually talking about. Amber was always unhealthy, but people didn’t want Danny with someone else until after we learned he was bisexual.
Granted, part of that’s because no one else really seemed appropriate at the time. (Danny’s other main interactions have been with Dorothy, his ex who’s moved on, and Joe, who even if he was interested is kind of a total jackass. Note that there was also a lot of Ethan being shipped with Jocelyne before her reveal during the Family Weekend arc.)
I agree that these interactions are REALLY WEIRD with Danny still with Amber, and every scene with them together and happy seems even weirder knowing there’s this going on too. (I’ve basically been going, “Crap, hanging out with Ethan brings out the best in Danny, but I REALLY WANT Amber to be as relatively stable as possible” this whole time, and I know there are quite a few other commenters with the same mindset.) I think part of the problem is there also had to be Danny’s whole self-discovery arc at the same time as all of this, which means the “Oh crap I have a crush on my new friend wait what” bit to prompt it.
On the bright side, there are some – tangential – dudes interested in dudes that were introduced in the last storyline, so maybe it’s not too much to hope for one of them getting more characterization with Ethan hanging out with them at some point? Which would give us an alternative and more representation, especially if they turn out to be bi as well and remain a member of the cast after whatever shit will inevitably go down with Amber.
Strips like this make me think that Danny is going to try and distance himself from Ethan. He did do something really similar with Amber when she was making advances towards him and he was insistent that he was dating Amazi Girl. (The two situations aren’t exactly equivalent, especially since Amber = Amazi Girl. But the idea of Danny pushing people away because he’s loyal to Amazi Girl is well established)
Not true, several people have been against Danny/Amber all along. The exact reason have changed. At first the wanted them to break up because Danny was oblivious and feeding her dual persona. Then they wanted them to break up because he suddenly didn’t deserve her because he tried to separate from Amber when she got all clingy and wouldn’t explain why (we both know that’s bullshit and not his fault), ever since the aftermath of the Blaine arc it’s shifted to being because now they get how unstable Amber is. Plus they now have a superior pairing to root for instead.
It’s like when you get to dinner time and you really don’t want to eat the meal but you know desert is going to be amazing, you just really want to skip to the good part and ignore all the garbage you’ll have to chew through to get to it.
People can hate Danny all they want. I don’t need to be okay with it if someone’s stated reason is “Danny needs to hook up with a guy now.”
In a vacuum I know I’m going to like Danny and Ethan, but there’s too much ugly context around it for me to really appreciate it, I guess. I see strips like this and it’s just “oh hey, now i remember why i fucking hate it.”
And it’s just a coincidence that Pairing B is the only male romance in the entire series? It “just happened” that pairing was so much more appealing that we had people hollering for it same day we learned that Danny was bi?
I understand that you see it that way and more power to you, but there’s little anyone can say to convince me that most of the Danny/Ethan shipping is anything but “they’re both guys”, especially with some of the genuinely disgusting posts about them I’ve come across (like literally with some people saying “I don’t care what’s happening so why don’t they just fuck now”).
I’m pretty sure for Time Monkey, it’s the definition of coincidence? Maybe I’ve misread him, but I’m pretty sure he’s a straight man pulling for this because it makes the characters happy (Perhaps I’m projecting, although substitute gay woman there).
Clearly the solution is for Joe and Walky to just come out as bi already (or possibly for us to see a trans gay man develop from the cast) so that there are more shipping fuel options for people who want to ship main characters… That said, it wouldn’t be out of the norm for a side-character to step up into the big leagues (already happened with Becky after all).
Which for my money is why Ruth/Billie doesn’t have an equally loud group of people hoping for its end. If Billie or Ruth made eyes with someone who was demonstrably way more stable I bet the fandom would splinter hard.
Though in the case of R/B, they’re kind of both unstable in different ways, so… Less of a clear cut “this person could be happier in a more functional relationship” thing.
On a side note, I notice I’ve become way less defensive of R/B. It’s probably because I now have other f/f pairings to ship that are less doomed, so I’m not clinging desperately to the one and only canon option for representing me. (Please don’t suggest Daisy, and Leslie is great but both a minor character and currently single. I’m actually nervous for her seeming interest in Robin since Willis has generally seemed uninterested in repeat pairings.)
Anyway. The “who has more representation” question is pretty much always a weird and difficult one. Bi people have very little as a group, and I would say bi men are probably less common than bi women, but that doesn’t mean that most bi women are… I mean we are kind of fetishized??? More “serious” portrayals are usually guys, and that some effort has been made to combat that over the last year doesn’t suddenly make it untrue.
Bi men get a better rep than bi women, because bi women are a thing for dudes to ogle. Bi women usually exist in fiction to let a man have his three-way (The correct kind, not the ‘devil’s threeway’, which ugh.) Bi men may sometimes be a joke (Such as ‘the Todd’ on Scrubs, though he was a joke way before we knew he was bi at least)
And yes, Billie/Ruth fandom would splinter hard, because people ship LOTS of things (I wouldn’t, but I, perhaps horribly wrongly, see too much of myself in Ruth). Spencer conveniently forgets that the only person not shipped at the drop of a hat is Billie (to my knowledge). Like, did he forget Danny/Sal was a thing with the commentariat for a while? Walky/Becky? Dotty/Joyce (Guilty)? Like, I do legit get being offended here, because a lot of it is straight women who are doing it for their entertainment (FTR, I do prefer Ethan/Danny, but I get no pleasure from it – I just sincerely believe they’ll be happier, and I like them both enough to want that.), but it’s important to keep an accurate view of the situation.
I thought you meant “pumpkin spice lattes” for a minute there, which in a different college-setting webcomic has come to represent, like, sweet and innocent pining (although I’m sure lust is involved to some degree because college and healthy young adult males though I guess it’s possible one of them is ace but I doubt it and DANG but am I digressing hardcore here sorry), so I had to take a moment to figure out what seasonal coffee drinks had to do with this setting
Take it slow. Etghan is nearly an ace, with little evidence that he is actively pursuing anything. Companionship, hand holding and maybe first base would be something that would have to happen to him, rather than something than something he would make happen. Not a blanket lack of agency, just that he is more interested in toy robots instead of bumping uglies.
Danny is a known passive player, so if you wait for him to make an aggressive move, you might be waiting a long time. Again, not some blanket lack of agency, but just how he is.
Like Dina and Becky, they may recognize the attraction and spend time together without it moving around the bases very fast.
The only way this happens is if Amber notices and gives it a push. Until then, happy Danny and Ethan are much better than their default modes.
It doesn’t have to end in tears. Amber and Danny can have a mutual decision to break up for many obvious reasons. The Danny can hook up with Ethan and Amber can enjoy watch two dudes she finds attractive touching each other.
After staring into Danny’s bottomless eyes for several minutes, I notice that the two panels are not identical. Willis actually took the time to draw Danny with the same expression twice. That’s work ethic, and it’s what gives Danny the power to consume my soul.
Funny. In Shortpacked, I disliked Ethan (due to his constant hypocrisy) but I found myself sympathetic to him here in Dumbing. Danny is a tool who doesn’t know what he wants, and is more focused on that than the effects of his whiny selfish needs on others.
I think here, Ethan will do the right thing. The last thing he would do would involve hurting Amber. He might get close, but I don’t think he’d cross that line.
A mouthful of conversation perhaps? “My ex-boyfriend’s boyfriend who’s also my ex-boyfriend…” or just short and sweet “My exes, who are now each other’s boyfriends…”
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Danny be all like, “Can I help?”
*later: walls plastered with Becky*
“WHAT DID YOU DO”
Don’t be silly, Danny would never stupidly lead a girl’s abusive father right to her…again.
…wow, good point. he and dina would both want to make up for that
Oh, that what you meant, I thought he blew her up or someithing.
Toedad: “Heeeeeloooo young man, I’m looking for my daughter to abuse.”
Toedad: “Young man?”
Danny: “Sorry, flashback. Oh, of course. I know how this goes down. Please follow me to this rainy parking lot and we can go straight for the last act.”
Toedad: “Is that a pokeman game you are fiddling with, I’m praying for your soul.”
Danny: “It’s a DS, and I’m only using the chat function. Yeah, I’m kinda praying for your soul too right now…”
*Deep voice from shadow behind Toedad* “Hello, Ross MacIntyre…”
I would love it if this happened…
*coughs up blood* “Why would Joyce want to come to this cesspool of violence? And to think my already straying child would be drawn into this sinful place to see her…”
“Now, for the last time, leave this place! You do not get to see her…”
“I AM HER FATHER! I know what she needs, and I will rehabilitate her through any means necessary…”
“No, you won’t…”
Apropos gravitar is apropos.
You misspelled “sexing ethan”
…danny is helpful
Danny likes helping 🙂
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/02-guess-whos-coming-to-galassos/exhausted/
Danny does like to help, but he has a habit of Danning things up whenever he tries to help.
He’s not Danning anything up yet though….I wonder how he’ll manage to it this time?
Well, he can “dan” me up anytime i say 😛
Well he’s danniny up the comic by cutting away from Dina and Becky rn 😉
Very true, stop cutting to useless Danny and show us more adorkable Beckysaurus! 😀
Danny now wants to be a favor…
“He can’t find his daughter if there’s no daughter to FIND, Ethan! This plan is perfect!”
HMM
What?
Sad I know, get in for an early comment and this time all I’ve got is ‘HMM’.
What?
Hmm?
What?
Huh?
Say what again! . . . Say what one more time!
.
.
.
-yes I know somebody already did it, I don’t care, it works here.
One more time, for the court please?
We’re switching characters a lot this chapter. I think I got too used of seeing a single one throughout a whole chapter ^^;
Awkward…
Stop being adorably bi-curious, Danny! It makes me want to Joe you!
It makes me want to Ethan him, and I’m not even Danny I swear!
Gah! No! Stop being adorable!
In order to stop being adorable, he has to start being adorable first. And to start being adorable, he has to stop being Danny.
Your premise is inherently flawed, good sir.
They gon make a sex
They gon touch dicks
It makes me so sad that this will probably end the Danny/Amber relationship. I really hope they work it all out, I know cheating is hard but missing your best lover is harder.
I figure the Danny/Amber relationship will end because Amber will find out about Becky and her neurosis will dictate that Amazing Girl has to rat her out because she’s breaking university rules.
Danny won’t take it well because he doesn’t understand why Amber would feel she has to do so to avoid breaking down. So she loses him and breaks down anyway, starting a story arc where we learn that Amazing Girl is actually a HORRIBLE coping mechanism.
In his hurt he ends up in the supportive (and so strong!) arms of Ethan. Maybe in a year or so real time, Amber returns to college from the mental hospital, hopefully a bit more stable and well adjusted. Maybe her and Danny reconcile and become good friends, but the romantic aspect is long dead.
Wow, good theory!
I think Sal will be what could break things down between him and Amber completely.
There are so many easy and sensible ways for the Amber and Danny relationship to fall to pieces, Willis is spoiled for choices. There’s Danny banging Ethan, Danny being chums with Sal, Amber getting Becky booted, Danny blabbing Amber’s secret, Danny doing something illegal and getting caught, and that’s just the low-hanging fruit.
I think it will be Sal, just because there is comedy potential in Amber dumping him for liking someone that isn’t Ethan, and realising that that was what she should have been dumping him for later.
But yeah, their relationship is a mine field waiting to blow. I can’t say if they’ll work it out in the end or not, but there’s no way they’re getting through without a breakup of some kind. Not with that myriad of ways things can go wrong.
I still lean towards Becky. There’s an extra angle of tragedy to it because she’d also has a chance to fail to explain to Ethan why she wouldn’t help a gay girl who was running from her awful dad even while she pushed him out of the closet. It puts her in the position of losing everything and makes the emotional collapse all the more inevitable.
When you put it like that, It seems highly unlikely Amber or Amazi-Girl would do something like that. Amazi-Girl was created because of an abusive parent, so both personas would be sympathetic to Becky.
Would be sympathetic, but Amazi-girl is still pathologically bound by the rules, while enforcing them with criminal acts of violence. That’s why it would lead to a breakdown.
She explained this herself. “I have to abide by my rules. I have self-imposed guidelines which are the reason I exist.” She doesn’t get to choose, because she’s deathly afraid that this will lead to a loss of control.
We can call Amazi-girl cool all we want, but the truth of the matter is that she’s HORRIBLY DAMAGED and needs help, preferably before her house of cards collapses.
“Amazi-Girl can’t make exceptions… but perhaps Amber can.”
@Smiling Cat
Okay you have a point, but if she is willing to enforce her rules with criminal violence, what’s to say those rules necessarily imply sending Becky off with her dad?
Not only that… Amber had the opportunity to report people at the party for underage drinking. The fact that she did not shows she has at least some flexibility in her moral code.
@ NoName: There’s no way she’d turn Becky over to Ross, but she might get her kicked out of the dorm.
I don’t think she will, but it could happen if she gets hung up on compensating for letting everyone off the hook for drinking.
@ Smiling Cat – Remember when Amazi-Girl confronted Joyce about the Whiteboard Dong Bandit incident? She did have Joyce clean off the whiteboards, but she never told anyone who did it or alerted the proper authorities. Amazi-Girl solves problems on her own and in her own way, whether it’s by beating up the “criminals” or bringing rubbing alcohol and offering to help with the cleaning. I have a hard time believing that she’d try to get Becky kicked out, but she might try helping her find a more permanent solution.
But Willis said there’d be no death in this comic. If Amber ratted out Becky, which I say would be out of character, Joyce would kill her.
There’s no way it would be Danny banging Ethan, as Willis keeps saying over and over. If Danny did that, he’d have to not be Danny.
He told Amber they couldn’t be friends because he was dating Amazi-Girl. He’s loyal to a fault.
Huh, good point.
Considering Amber also has an abusive (albeit a different kind of abusive) dad I sincerely doubt she’d rat out becky. Unless she doesnt hear about that part.
I prefer the version where Amber walks into Danny/Ethan booty banging and loses her damn mind.
“It makes me so sad that this will probably end the Danny/Amber relationship.”
Let’s have some Amber Facts:
A: Amber still fancies Ethan and would like to have him in her life if possible.
B: Amber wants Ethan to stop re-closeting himself and hook up with a guy.
C: Amber fantasises about slashy threesomes.
Gosh, how could these contradictory desires possibly by satisfied?
If that ever WERE to happen, it would be a magnificent sandwich of bodies, but as it stands I’m not sure that’s realistic.
Realistically, I think the plot’s been moving towards it for a very long time now. And I’m surprised at the number of people tying themselves in knots in this comment section because they can’t read the plot telegraph.
Because that’s an ideal end reached by well adjusted functional people. For that to happen, the relationship would need at least one!
It’s the before and the after where you need to be well adjusted. Anyone can get in bed, it’s keeping the clusterfuck in bed where you need maturity.
DYW installed that plot device a looong time ago but I’m sure it is still in working order. He has plotted very carefully in the past, so I don’t think that was a red herring.
THANK YOU. We can have both!
As long as everyone is on board and consenting, they could make a pretty great triad, I think. Except that they’re freshman year college students with limited relationship experience, so…
On the list of things of what will probably break up Danny and Amazi Girl, I think Danny finding Ethan attractive is pretty far down tbere. Between Danny not really understanding why Amber has the Amazi Girl persona, and the fact that Amber has admitted that the thought of being separated from Danny might cause her to lose it, along with some other things (like Possibly misunderstanding Danny’s relationship with Sal) there’s really no shortage of things that can cause a breakup that don’t involve cheating.
Just go my route and do a three way ship. Ethdanber.
“Oh sorry, I was too busy admiring how handsome you are.”
SLIIIIIIIIIIIIPSHIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE…
So is this the new “Sal is Amazi-girl?”
I think it’s more like the new FAAACCCCEEEE.
Did we all touch ourselves trying to find out who Amazagirl?
Why do I even ask…
In other news, the whiny Peter parker I grew up with makes sense only if he is ace or gay. Horray!
… you grew up with Peter Parker? Are you a super villain?
zach is actually Mary Jane Watson.
Also, I think I will see this Danny face in my nightmares <_<;
Emptily staring into your soul, no matter what you ask him.
Funny I was just thinking that look is similar to the one right after the cute girl talks to you and your like hmm? Me? *looks around* come on Viking don’t mess this up.
“Hi sailor, come here often?”
Next five strips will be the last two panels of this one over and over.
Perfect.
Oh gods no.
No worry, this strip was drawn 4 months ago, so would the next 5-20 or so.
Subtly changing just enought to let you know he’s in there, watching you.
DONT GIVE HIM ANY IDEAS D:
That’s how Willis got so much of a buffer done!
Well, if you just out and say it, then of course I pretty much have to do it. 😛
(Might be easier to read like this.)
The secrets of how DYW maintains such a buffer revealed.
Man, Danny has an adorable smile.
i know that it’s supposed to be friendly, but that kabuki mask is the most terrifying face that i have ever seen danny make. friendly danny is just a truck waiting to happen
Dammit, I wasn’t paying attention but now the longer I stare at it, the scarier it gets.
Now imagine him keeping that exact expression while wordlessly doing the Kodoma head-rattling thing from Princess Mononoke.
That’s nice, I never wanted to sleep again anyway
that’s ok, just stare into danny’s eyes, and you’ll be asleep before you know it. that’s when his face changes…
Is Danny a weeping angel!?
But, a picture of an angel in itself is an angel!
F!@#, we’re boned!
recursion? that’s just spiraling out of control!
eh? eh?…myjokeshityouatasnailspace/dontbesoshellfish
*dontbesoshellfish
…truncation
That was hard to read.
I keep expecting him to suddenly take off his face like Vos.
It’s actually Toedad in disguise. Corseting is one of his lesser-known abilities.
They need to burn Danny’s blood to see if it jumps.
No,they need to exorcise the demon that’s possessing him.,,Calls Karas”
So much squee!
NOW KISS
Bring on the Slipshine!
(yes, I know I’m late and it’s already been said, but fuck it, SLIPSHINE!!!)
I’ve got a bad feeling about this…
Of course you do. Danny’s involved.
Here goes Dan, getting ready to Dan things up by distracting Ethan.
Ethan’s Batman shirt is appropriate for his current mission.
Say what again, SAY WHAT AGAIN! I dare you, I double dare you, motherf*cker! Say what one more god damn time!
Que?
Two internets for you.
What?
I wasn’t gonna say anything, but after a double dog dare my hands were tied.
What? 😛
That’s beautiful!
I would give you internets, but I don’t have any.
I see I am not the only one who thought of this. “Say what again!” should be the text in the last panel.
AAAAAAND THEEEEEN?
So does this Danny face make up for the evil looking Danny face that someones gravatar had yesterday?
All Along the Watchtower/Princes kept their view/While all the women came and went/Their footservants too…
*plays Debby Boone’s “You Light Up My Life” on the Muzak*
Not sure how Danny didn’t glomp Ethan from that last panel alone. I’m halfway through my laptop screen as I type.
They’re too cute. Too doomed. Yet soooo cuuute.
I’m just going to hang this up between you two.
http://40.media.tumblr.com/b81880daf08aeaf00f779193fe4d324f/tumblr_n74ex0BK3t1qkinreo1_500.png
Perfect. threesome!
Yeah, Danny, I know whenever you open your mouth, stupid things come out, but evidently keeping it shut doesn’t work either.
Maybe he thinks he’s black bolt and if he hums and whispers then the damage won’t be too bad.
i totally had no idea what he was supposed to be doing and had to go back and check. looking out for beckys dad, right?
“I’m sorry—did you say something? IRL? Or was that my fantasy talking?”
Oh Danny, you smiling two-by-four
Wooda Cuda Shooda?
Danny’s new nickname is Plank. It works, because Danny has roughly the personality of a board of wood.
Okay, that’s not true, but I’m still calling him Plank.
Well you could always say he’s got wood…
I’ll leave now.
Or that he wants to get nailed.
I am right behind you. (yes, I know)
Between this, Girl Genius, and EGS, I think I have a new OT3.
… Danny, Agatha, and Elliot?
…stand by, systems rebooting.
Galasso, Jerry the hammer fairy, and the long-dead original Storm King Andronicus Valois.
Don’t forget the Half Life headcrab.
Ross, Pandora, and that one clank that we saw in the time rip in the first chapter of GG?
“The Muse of Time” according to the book they are reading from on Monday’s page…
Oh, nice catch. I saw the clank, but didn’t see it’s name when I looked at that page. (Which is why it popped in my head). Ah jeez, that opens up even more questions.
Operating Thetan Level 3?
No…No…don’t do this to Amazigirl!
Danny what the shit YOU HAVE A GIRLFRIEND
Thats not Danny, thats Mike displaying his secret shape shifting powers. Thats why the face looks oddly creepy.
That’s not Danny. That’s his secret persona “Doesn’t-fuck-things-up-dude”. Since HE is not dating Amazigirl he is free to flirt with anyone he likes.
Also, he’s immune to criticism.
NOTE: I really didn’t intend that to be as caustic as it turned out. I think Amber handles a shitty situation in a remarkably constructive manner and I know that her sometimes unfair treatment of Danny is not out of malice but from insecurities and fallout from her trauma.
I also think that Danny’s complete lack of personal borders is part of the problem (and an understandable consequence of HIS baggage).
Their relationship has serious problems. I honestly think a breakup is one of the better outcomes at this point. But finger pointing wouldn’t help anyone.
BUT all that said, my quip above WOULD be a not-too-unfair-comeback to some of Amber’s snapping at Danny in the line of “back off, you are not dating Amber”
Like Clayface?
He’s monogamous, not blind!
He isn’t monogamous! He’s sleeping with both Amber and Amazigirl!
Actually, I’m pretty sure that they never bang when Amber is “Amber”. Only when she’s Amazi-Girl. It’s honestly one of my biggest gripes with Amber, whom I otherwise very much like.
They’ve only banged, like, twice. And I haven’t read the Mask Or No Mask? Slipshine, but just the fact that she asked that indicates she’s comfortable banging Danny as either.
How dare he look at and smile at someone else!?
“You are cute without the hat too”
Remember, Danny was the original Joyce!
Danny and Ethan appear to be on the verge of making out. Incidentally, Amber will be showing up shortly. http://dumbingofage.tumblr.com/post/122339983209/itswalky-september-18-this-is-for-real-just-a
I believe that Danny will be back in his room hanging out with Joe by then, so Amber may miss seeing them together. http://dumbingofage.tumblr.com/post/121676106335/itswalky-fans-of-roomies-will-be-excited-to
Many have speculated that it would break Amber if she were to discover that Danny has a crush on Ethan. I’ve thought about that myself.
Then, earlier this evening, a twist occurred to me. We know that Danny is staunchly monogamous, and Ethan doesn’t strike me as particularly sexually adventurous. Amber, however…..
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/03-up-all-night-to-get-vengeance/burn/
There’s a couple of other comics of interest on that topic, which I’m too lazy to hunt down. There’s one where Amber was up all night reading slash fanfiction, and another where Amber saw Jacob, and considered him as a potential love interest for Ethan. When Ethan told her that Jacob is straight, Amber’s response (paraphrased) was, “Not according to the fanfic I’m writing in my head right now.”
It would be an interesting twist if Amber decides it’s awesome once she’s confirmed that Danny is still attracted to her. She may decide she’s totally up for a threesome. Naturally, Danny and Ethan would be completely weirded out by that prospect.
I dunno, there’s a BIG difference between something being hot when it’s presented for your entertainment (as a great deal of dude on dude is) and when it’s, you know, real. Amber… really might be able to handle it! I won’ say she can’t. But it seems a bit iffier than you might otherwise think.
Yeah, I know there’s an important distinction there. I don’t actually think that particular outcome is all that likely. It’s just something I imagined that would make an interesting twist.
Alternate universe Amber proposed a 3-way to Mike and Ethan. And it’s been said that sexuality is constant across Willisverses.
That was due to years and years of pent up sexual frustration and the fact that they were married. Amber wanted someone who was actually into her, no pun intended, and Ethan just wanted to bang a dude. It’s not the threeway that was appealing so much as the chance for penis.
I’m guessing Amber, having helped Ethan through his coming-out process, is very familiar with the existence of bisexuality. I expect that her discovering Ethan & Danny’s mutual attraction with indeed be anticlimactic. Remember that the “inciting incident” of Ethan’s coming out was inability to have sex with Amber, and Danny explicitly was relieved that he still could and wanted to. Amber is a good detective, she’ll connect the dots.
What makes you think she’s a good detective?
She figured out the identity of the Whiteboard Ding-Dong Bandit?
Umm, why is my comment awaiting moderation? I’ve posted here before using the exact same email and username multiple times. Did I do something wrong? Am I on probation? What’s going on?
And yet my comment about my comment awaiting moderation isn’t awaiting moderation. It just posted. Fascinating. Maybe I just included too many links in the previous one and that sets off some sort of red flag feature.
Whatever, that post basically consisted of wild speculation, and me obsessing over fictional characters, as I’m prone to do. Either the comment passes moderation or it doesn’t. The universe isn’t likely to explode from either outcome.
What?
You fool.
…
Huuuuuh!
(Implosion)
Frighteningly plausible. Was there more than one link?
Yup, two preview panels for upcoming comics, and one earlier comic that involved Amber dreaming of a threesome.
Apparently, I should only link sparingly. Lesson learned — at least until I see a squirrel playing with something shiny and immediately forget all of this.
I think anytime you post two or more links, it must be moderated. Even if the links are to other comics on site.
Or you could have done what I did once and mispelled your email address.
Hmm?
“What, what, in the butt.”
The Yaoi is strong with these two.
Hmm?, Hmm?
thats a horrible way to say “these guys will bang someday”
Meh, I’m a horrible person.
Say what one more time, we dare you.
Lol, lets beat this meme to death now.
No Willis stop. Why must you do this to me. It’s too much.
Oh, Danny…
As excited as I am for this arc, I’m really missing Ruth… for Canadian reasons haha.
Now that it’s been mentioned, that is a very creepy Danny face. Run Ethan. No wait, you’re watching for Toedad.
Yeah, I’d like to see them make it together.
Amber needs to get rid of Danny. This is the guy that dumped her when she was hurting so bad she was close to just curling up in a ball and never unwinding. And why did he do that? Because he was fixated on Amazing-Girl.
Never has figured out they are one and the same. Yup, dumb as a box of rocks.
Amber will be hurt. But, he is screwing over her self esteem big time by wanting her to ‘wear the mask’ when they have sex. And she is feeding it by not letting him announce he’s going with her – Amber. Which is just stupid.
So yeah, bye bye Danny. Maybe have a more realistic relationship with Ethan.
Interesting take. I’ll grant that Danny took a few days to realize Amazi-girl was Amber, almost as long as the reporter dedicated to figuring it out. But how do you “dump” someone who tells you themselves they are only pretending to be your girlfriend for your parents?
And when Danny asked to be Amber’s boyfriend instead of Amazi-girl’s, and she told him no, what is he doing that is anything but supportive to the best of his abilities? Aside from hitting on Ethan, I mean, but you seem to like that part.
To be fair to Danny he has NO IDEA how messed up Amber really is. He knows she uses Amazi-Girl as an outlet, but he hasn’t clicked yet that this is an unhealthy outlet instead of a healthy one. I mean he has been pretty preoccupied with his own issues and when you’re girlfriend seems ok, a bit of a stickler for rules but ok w’evs, and you’re subconsciously checking out her ex-boyf, no wonder he isn’t going to be so Amber focused.
Even then, he’s still always been there for Amber/Amazi-Girl when she really needs him. Also when did he dump her?? When she forced him to pretend they were going out, when he adamantly said he wasn’t comfortable with that? And the mask/superhero thing is one of Danny’s kinks – hot superhero girlfriend?? yess. At that point he hadn’t realised that Amber and Amazi-Girl are ‘two different people’
I feel everyones a bit unfair to Danny sometimes, yeah he’s a bit slow and makes dumb decisions, but he’s not a dick. We all have a bit of Danny inside us. wait uh
That’s not how it is. Like at all. Danny never dated Amber, she just spontaneously said she was his girlfriend during the parent visit and he was uncomfortable with it cuz he was dating Amazi-Girl and he didn’t know at the time that they were the same person. Amber herself is the one who insists that Danny is dating Amazi-Girl and not Amber because she seems to think Amber doesn’t deserve anything good or nice. Danny doesn’t realize that cuz he’s kinda dense at times but he has shown his irritation at Amber’s insistence that he is dating AG and not Amber as evidenced by their argument after Joyce’s party and has tried to suggest he break up with AG so he can date Amber but she won’t let him.
Idon’tcarenomore is a lost cause when it comes to Danny. They just make shit up and defend it to the death.
A mirror darkly and all that, I guess.
I thought she said she couldn’t date him as Amber because everyone already knew he was dating Amazi-girl, and they look similar enough that if he suddenly started showing up dating Amber, her secret identity would be blown. She said that’s why she still has the same stupid hairstyle she wore for prom, even though she likes Amazi-girl’s messed-up hair way better. But if Amber adopts it, again, blooey for the secret identity.
Which probably isn’t really all that secret anyways, but whatevs.
Well he did figure out who Amazi Girl was quicker than anyone else, including Dorothy. ( Quicker than anyone other than people who knew her from before college like Ethan). And when he friend dumped Amber, he had no idea what else she went through that day. There was no possible way for him to realize what she went through because Amber never talked about it. And if you don’t know that Amber = Amazi Girl, then what Amber did was really creepy.
But I have the feeling I’ve said this exact thing thing to Idontcarenomore before and never got a response, so I don’t know.
He didn’t figure out shit. He saw her with the mask off, but the costume on.
I’m thinking that Danny was basically dreamily musing on how cute Ethan’s smile is or something like that.
Danny, you are being too adorable for words.
Ethan. You too.
Help Amber deal with her obvious mental issues together while also making out. Together. Though without Amber. It probably wouldn’t work with you three.
Yes, help amber and also cheat on her. Good plan.
God I hope they don’t actually do this. Amber is not a character whose heart I want broken.
That smile is really nice. the first time. The second time it’s pretty frightening. I kinda expect a crack to appear, or for a high pitched laughing sound to start while his face is like that.
mmmmmmmm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIbcqgXh5-4
What a nice clip! Thanks 😀
Danny is looking even cuter than usual. I must have the slip shine…
See it’s funny and not totally awful because Danny’s bi, and since Danny’s bi his current relationship with a woman is stupid and irrelevant, and we should totally ignore it because he’s supposed to hook up with the other LGBT guy in the entire cast. Why does Danny even exist if not to make googly eyes at Ethan? Honestly, Sucking Ethan’s dick is his true calling. Fuck all that “coming to terms with his sexuality and what it means to him” shit.
…What..?
Whoa. That’s a pretty extreme perspective. I mean, I’m totally down with the idea of Danny’s attraction to Ethan ‘causing drama and I’m firmly in the camp of wanting to see a homoerotic Slipshine because of my lifetime of having difficulties finding proper representation in media. Heck, I’d even going so far as to cheer on Ethan/Danny while still being aware of problems and pain that would be caused by the two hooking up to someone they both care about, but I don’t think that I can support stuff like claiming that bisexuality makes prior relationships “stupid and irrelevant” or that Danny exists only for making “googly eyes” at Ethan and “sucking his dick”. It’s a bit too radical, in my opinion.
I mean, I get where you’re coming from. It sucks that LGBT representation is hard to come by! Even though things have come so far from the ’90’s or 00’s, where most mainstream representation of LGBT characters was a joke where the punchline was “LGBT peeps exist”, we still seem to have a huge problem showing LGBT sexual and romantic relationships in our media. I know this can be frustrating and I know it often makes people so desperate for representation that they will either enthusiastically embrace even the hint of characters in LGBT pairings or they will “queer” media by inventing non-canon pairings between characters, but what you’re talking about is something else entirely that’s almost a bizarre caricature of that sort of behavior.
But, if I’m being honest, I do have to admit I think there’s room for compromise. I think that being attracted to people in inconvenient ways, making mistakes in the expression of your sexuality, and sometimes even hurting people because of confused or “difficult choices is what “coming to terms with sexuality and what it means” is all about. Especially for young adults experiencing independence for the first time. So, despite the fact that I can’t fully embrace your opinions, I do think that Danny and Ethan’s relationship might have great dramatic potential that could be exploited by the artist.
Plus, we might get to seem them smooch again which would be totally adorbs!
I can’t be fine with Danny and Ethan getting together anymore. I can’t, because Willis and this community has constantly displayed a fundamental disrespect to the validity of Queer Male agency. Because Willis decided that a single gay dude and a character literally written as bi to be his love interest was enough in his massively Queer-friendly series, where all forms of marginalized groups are treated with respect, dignity, and agency. Except Queer dudes. They get to fill a fucking notch again.
I would fucking love to be as enthusiastic as everyone else about Danny and Ethan getting together, but I can’t. I can’t ignore the hollering and hooting over how Danny is required to hook up with Ethan, and how his entire validity as a character, how his validity as a bisexual man, is predicated on ending his relationship with a woman so he can get together with the only man who can reciprocate his feelings. I can’t ignore Willis’ constant shipping of the two while Danny is involved with Amber, something he would fucking never, in a million goddamn years, ever do to any of his straight or LGBT female cast members, while simultaneously paying lip service on his tumblr to how offensive it is for people to demand he leave Amber.
Of course I want more M/M romance in fiction. I want to be happy about Danny and Ethan’s romance, but I can’t. How am I supposed to participate in a series that bases a bisexual man’s worth on entering into a same-sex relationship? Danny and Ethan deserve better than being Dumbing of Age’s Flagship Representative M/M Romance. Becky and Dina aren’t The Gay Lady Couple. Neither are Billie and Ruth, Marcie and Malaya, or Mandy and Grace.
But, you know, I’m so fucking used to seeing really awful shit about LGBT men in series I love, so I guess DoA is just another one on the pile.
Would it have been easier if one of the other bisexual characters in DoA (Billie, Ruth, Marcie) was hooking up with a dude instead?
I mean, yeah, I do see an issue. There aren’t really any bisexuals that are currently dating opposite gendered people, outside of Danny, and that seems on the brink. But I’ll give Danny the benefit of the doubt and say that this is a very new experience for him and Ethan is his first major dude crush. For all we know he could have been the same with Dorothy.
It’s weird that QC’s Dora is probably the best example of bisexuality I can think of. Nobody batted an eye about who she was dating.
Well I mean, that’s not really what I’m getting at. I guess there’s something to be said about bi-erasure and how we treat bisexuals as “switching teams” depending on who they date, or how they “don’t count” unless they’re in a same sex relationship.
Even the cutesy shipping moment we have here is super aggravating, because Willis is treating it as something valid and romantic for Danny to engage in, even though he’s already in a relationship and is super serious about monogamy. You will never see Walky making googly eyes at, say, Joyce, and it being treated as foreshadowing to a future romance while he’s currently dating Dorothy. Danny, meanwhile, because he’s the Bi Dude Who Is Going To Date Ethan, gets to engage in this behaviour. It’s indicative of incredibly ugly, stereotypical views of bisexuality, and Danny is being treated with a different rulebook compared to every single other romance in the entire series.
Saying it’s not “valid” to find someone attractive, especially when you’re still coming to terms with your sexuality, when you’re dating someone else, is almost as bad as Joyce trying to stamp out all lust in her heart. It’s ok to feel feelings, as long as you’re honest with yourself and those affected by them. Danny’s on a journey to self-awareness and honesty, and his feelings are valid.
I’m not saying it’s wrong for Danny to find Ethan attractive, I’m saying it’s wrong that this is being used as a Ship Tease moment for the two while Danny is still in a relationship, specifically because it treats them getting together as an inevitability.
Do you have documentation for this “inevitability?” You keep treating this as if this is something Willis has guaranteed will happen, and I don’t think most of us remember anything of the sort. If he said there will be Male/Male sex, that doesn’t guarantee it either does it?
Willis has guaranteed that it’s a thing that’s going to happen. Check out any post tagged Danny or Ethan on his tumblr.
I’m not going to do your homework for you.
It is pretty much inevitable, Willis mentioned ages ago he made Danny bi so that Ethan could have a male love interest, at some point.
Willis didn’t start writing dudes who were into other dudes until he introduced Ethan in Shortpacked. Naturally the only other dudes who are into dudes were Ethan’s boyfriends from said comic. As Willis does not want to retread a lot of the same notes romantically he needed someone new for Ethan to play with. This meant either creating someone entirely new or exploring a new aspect of an existing male character. of his male characters Danny was perfect: his sexuality had never really been explored as he’d been pushed into the far background just as the character had grown to the point he was willing to admit his sexual feelings existed, he shared many similarities with Ethan as well as several key differences.
Hey, I’m right there with you. It’s so frustrating to see fantastic queer characters ruined by things that haven’t happened yet. I am so disappointed in the future Dumbing of Age comics, where the characters have all done things that I assume will undermine all the wonderful complexity and nuance the characters currently have.
Also, I’m surprised at how blatantly racist that I’m assuming the comic will get! I really thought that there was a fantastically diverse cast of characters, but then I imagined all the characters making racially insensitive remarks and it was awful. I can’t believe that the artist would potentially do something like that in the future. They should be ashamed of themselves.
Or we can go with this hyperbolic misrepresentation thing, I guess.
That sounds fun. I’ll start:
The agency of queer characters in this comic has been undermined because of something that hasn’t happened yet and may never happen! The entire character arc about someone coming to terms with their sexuality is RUINED FOREVER and all bisexuals are being portrayed as scandalous cads!
I’m not angry about shit that hasn’t happened yet, I am angry about the things Willis is currently doing.
Danny has a girlfriend. Willis thinks it’s okay for a bi dude who is by all accounts a serial monogamist to be romanced with a guy while he’s currently in a relationship. This isn’t just some cutesy solo moment, which would still be fucking bad either way, this is meant to lead to them hooking up later down the line, which Willis has explicitly confirmed as eventually happening. All this while Danny is still dating someone.
Has he explicitly confirmed that Danny/Ethan would happen? Or just that a M/M Slipshine would happen at some point? There’s quite a difference there. In any case, knowing Danny I would expect him to friend dump Ethan rather than cheat on Amazi Girl. He basically did the same thing to Amber back when he didn’t realize she was Amazi Girl.
And eventually this might lead to him doing something awful, like breaking up with Amber in order to date someone different in college!
But whatever happens, we can be sure that it will be portrayed as entirely positive with no consideration for how it affects Amber or how it might show Ethan and Danny in a negative light. Because to date, the strip has delighted in showing Ethan and Danny as always being right and never making mistakes while never bothering to show how actions that might be good for one person might result in pain or heartbreak for another person.
And the terrible actions of Ethan and Danny, which have not actually happened yet but will almost certainly be portrayed completely positively and without consequence, will be a blight on the representation of bisexuality in the comic. Because one character out of the five confirmed bisexuals in the comic did something wrong.
Danny is “unfailingly loyal, annoyingly so.” Same-sex
Augh whoops my mobile browser is being annoying. Ignore that last part.
@Lord Stoneheart: He has. He’s talked a lot about how he’d be “missing out” by only writing them as friends on his tumblr.
@MGTen: Kind of a non-sequiter,; do you read comics at all? Over in X-Men a long established character came out as gay, and I was really happy about it before I actually read the story and it was as cloying, awful and offensive as possible. Should I be happy that this guy was told by someone else that he was gay and that bisexuality wasn’t a real thing, just because it was “representation”? Should I be happy when, on another occasion, a writer hooked up two long hinted dude characters together, one of whom was bi, only for said writer to decide that he was never bi at all, that he was always lying about being attracted to women, and he was always “fully gay”? Does representation inherently count even when it’s flawed?
I think I’ve made my stance pretty clear: you can never criticize the portrayal of any LGBT character and must embrace any representation, no matter how flawed, without commentary or question.
This is why I demand that everyone stop criticizing LGBT characters instead of just mocking the criticisms I think are dumb or petty with poorly written sarcasm and snide remarks.
You know how Danny wouldn’t have sex with Billie, who by all accounts is very attractive, because he still felt committed to Dorothy, even though she’d broken up with him? There’s no damn way he’d cheat on Amber/AG even when he comes to terms with his bisexuality. Shipping doesn’t mean it’s going to happen, guys; just means some people want it to.
Because “A bi guy subconsciously flirted with a gay dude, this means that the bi guy’s existence in the comic is just to fill some M/M quota!” is a reasonable representation of the text and doesn’t ignore that said bi character is his own developed character with plot threads separate from his current girlfriend and the guy he’s currently flirting with.
Though that interpretation is kinda of funny when we consider that one of the Danny’s main flaws is to judge his self worth based on whoever he’s currently dating. If Danny breaks up with Amazi Girl, eventually dates Ethan, but hasn’t changed his views on relationships in general then I would predict that Danny/Ethan would be a doomed relationship as well
Walky does not subconsciously flirt with anyone.
Billie does not subconsciously flirt with anyone.
Becky does not subconsciously flirt with anyone.
Danny does, because since he’s bi, and was literally written to be bi so he could hook up with Ethan because Willis wanted him to have a love interest, then it’s okay I guess. It’s okay for hyper-monogamous bi dudes who are so into commitment that they try to end friendships out of fear of cheating and won’t have casual sex because they’re interested in someone else to start schmoozing over hot guys.
Becky has just (barely) come to terms with not being straight. Billie, whether or not she has dated girls, is implied to have hooked up with whatsername, the cheerleader who she went to high school with. Walky doesn’t seem to angst very much, and probably wouldn’t super care if he turned out to be bi.
Danny is coming to terms with his sexuality as we speak. Him realizing he’s attracted to guys, and even telling Amber he is, is NOT the same as him cheating and doesn’t necessarily lead to them breaking up.
Yes, it would suck for Willis to break Amber/A-G & Danny up just for Danny & Ethan to get together, and no I don’t think that will happen because a lot of time and energy has been invested in making their relationship multilayered and compelling.
And a dude realizing he’s interested in other dudes while still dating a girl is a very compelling story, and DOESNT HAVE TO END IN THE TWO DUDES DATING.
I know that when I want to schmooze with hot guys, I walk up to them and make eye contact and smile without saying anything.
I also sometimes talk with them…about comic books.
…I haven’t had a date in 2 years.
Walky does not subconsciously flirt with anyone. (True. But that’s because he’s kinda of oblivious. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/booklet/)
Billie does not subconsciously flirt with anyone. (Well actually if there was any bi character that I think would cheat on their partner with someone who’s the opposite sex of their partner, I would guess it would be Billie way before I would guess Danny. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/market/)
Becky does not subconsciously flirt with anyone. (Except Joyce. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/boycrazy/)
And I object that Danny was written as bi simply so he could be a love interest for Ethan. Someone who always thought of themselves as straight coming to terms with being bi isn’t a story that is saturating the story market out there. And that’s what Danny is going through here. The fact that the object of his affection is the only other major male character that is also interested in dudes is simply the result of the cast being focused on the ladies. (Though they aren’t the only two LGBT males in the cast. But Brian and Mike are very minor characters). If you want to see Danny as being a secondary character who’s sole purpose is to be Ethan’s love interest then I guess you can do that, but don’t project your views onto everyone else.
Except Danny was written as bi to be Ethan’s love interest. I love the strips where he’s trying to work through his confusion with Dorothy, or when he talks with Ethan at the Questioning meeting, because it wasn’t just shipping fuel bullshit like this one. Those stories were about Danny and Danny’s struggles. Those strips don’t treat Danny’s relationships and personal agency as a speedbump to blowing Ethan.
I am keenly aware that this is a lady-focused series and seriously, more power to Willis. We need more series that treat women with agency and focus like DoA does. That doesn’t mean I have to be okay with the decision to include a single gay dude, and then write another dude as bi just so they can date. There’s a handful of prominent male characters, why are they straight? Why is having two dudes who can date enough? How the fuck is it not totally offensive to see that there’s two compatible guys and decide “yup, that’s enough. Don’t worry everyone, they’re totally gonna bang”?
Those strips you said you liked? They don’t exist in a vacuum. They are all part of Danny’s story. This strip doesn’t exist in a vacuum either. Even if Danny was written as bi to give Ethan a love interest (an assumption you constantly make that I’m not sure where it’s coming from) at this point in time there is more to Danny coming to terms with being bi that don’t involve Ethan at all.
But I’m tired of making posts and having large parts of them ignored just so you can accuse me here of seeing a character as a prop despite me saying nothing of the sort. To quote another character, “It’s been fun. Weird and fun. Mostly weird.”
Well i did the tumblr-dive and can show you exactly where this assumption is coming from!
Although to be a pedant: Danny was written as bi to give Ethan a potential love interest.
Once again, Spencer confuses “Does not make him, personally, happy” with “denies the agency of bi dudes”. Yet again. I ain’t gonna tell you to be happy with the commentariat – As much as there are bi dudes what aren’t you pulling for this ship, there’s plenty of straight women (Ain’t got nothing against gay men here). But for a guy who allegedly cares about the long term consequences… you know that if he weren’t attracted to Ethan, there’d be no bi representation, right? You know if he stays with amber, eh’s ‘really straight’, right? Jesus fucking christ.
And don’t fucking lie about what strips made you happy – when Danny came out to Dotty and got help? You were fucking livid. Because he didn’t know what a Bisexual was, and that was fucking offensive to you. Because you act like you’re the god damn emperor of bi men. Just shut the fuck up, seriously.
I’m pretty much always going to be embarrassed by that moment, which I totally deserve.
You’re right. I acted like an absolute, unmitigated jackass because I had decided that Danny not knowing what bisexuality was because Willis was, obviously, failing to treat bisexuality with respect. That I, being a bi dude, very clearly knew more than a professional writer who had written about these issues for years, so therefore anything that didn’t fall into my definition of right was clearly an aberration, and I never just shut the fuck up about it.
And Willis, more politely than I deserved, told me off for my bullshit. How I was being incredibly hurtful to people who have actually lived through this and demeaning their struggles. That I was making his website unsafe for those people and treating it like a place for me to sling shit all over the place.
I was wrong. I know I was wrong. There’s never going to be a time or context where I wasn’t wrong. I appreciate it now because I have a better understanding of the real issues of other bisexual people I was denying because I was an ignorant, shortsighted asshole.
I mean you’re wrong about everything else, as usual. I obviously find the way this story has been handled to be offensive, pretty sure other people don’t, and somehow I feel pretty okay about that. Nobody has to agree with me. Willis doesn’t have to throw all his plans out because some fat asshole on the internet isn’t happy with them, but I genuinely feel pretty okay talking about it.
It would be pretty rad to be the Emperor of Bi Men, though.
PS: I have literally never stated it’s wrong for Danny to be attracted to Ethan, and even if he weren’t, he’d still be a bi dude. I definitely think the expectation that, because of his sexuality, Danny needs to get with Ethan is offensive, but that’s two separate things.
Ah, of course, now you begin the ritual 3 refusings of the crown. You have, quite consistently, behaved as the only queer with an opinion what counts on the matter of Danny (I won’t say ‘bi dudes’ in general, because you clearly see a lot of yourself in Danny, and I don’t know that you’d do this with anyone else. I do empathize with seeing yourself in a character, and wanting it done right, at least). That you do not state it outright does not change what you’re doing. You won’t be the first yoof, nor the last. I just hope you fucking quit it at some point (And no, this ain’t cutting it – You never appear to take this shit into consideration. Want anyone to believe you are? Fucking act like it when not called on it.)
You aren’t ‘okay’ with other people finding t not offensive. You state these things as absolutes, and you second guess everyone who disagrees with you’s motives. You’ve written broad swaths of commentariat off as things that don’t exist, or things that are what you’re complaining about, even when they’re explicitly not.
If you say so.
He was written as bi to be a love interest. That doesn’t mean he was written as bi to “hook up with Ethan.” Princess Leia is a love interest for Luke in the first Star Wars movie. Arya is a love interest for Eragon all throughout the Inheritance series. Misty is a love interest for Ash in Pokemon. I could name dozens and dozens of examples, but the fact is that you have yet to convince me that Danny and Ethan are ever going to even acknowledge that they find each other attractive.
Love interests don’t necessarily screw each other, and characters being written not as “just friends” don’t necessarily bang either. You’re squawking angrily about queer representation, but asserting at the same time that it’s impossible for a gay man and a bi man to be attracted to each other without acting on it.
One of my best friends is bisexual, and believe me, I’m attracted to him. If he weren’t married, I seriously doubt he and I would ever get together, but our relationship would probably not be best defined as “friendship.”
I have multiple relationships that are like that, with a spark of the romantic or the sexual that pushes them outside of the bounds of “friendship” and involves some aspect of how people attract me, but I am rather noticeably not screwing these people because human sexuality isn’t strangers-acquaintances-enemies-friends-fuckbuddies-dating-married any more than it is straight-bi-gay-ace.
Danny is bi.
He’s attracted to Ethan.
This is an aspect of his life.
But according to you, if Willis writes him as responding to this aspect of his life in reasonable and normal ways, that’s offensive because flirting must always lead to fucking.
Maybe they’re just going to be people who flirt with each other. I’ve had relationships that consist almost exclusively of flirting before, and that’s perfectly fine. Get over your narrow definitions of what people can and cannot be to each other, or at least stop complaining because Willis is writing a relationship that doesn’t fit them.
Also, if the story really offends you that badly, might I suggest that you stop reading it? I’m sure we could all link you to things that you might like better, and at this point it looks like you’ve ticked off enough people that many would be happy to see you go.
What Drakey said.
I can understand getting upset and worried because bi men’s representation is so often handled so unbelievably awful (I get the same sinking worry when an ace character starts to appear in a work), but it’s worth noting that love-interest doesn’t equal boning or “will end up together”. Having Danny be potentially a person that Ethan could end up with (not will) means we can explore new ground with Ethan than in Shortpacked and there’s more ways to keep him connected with the cast now that he’s growing more comfortable with his sexuality. He can serve as a queer mentor to Danny, have little flirty meet-cutes that don’t necessarily go anywhere, and he has someone who kind of understands who is in the main cast and going to get screen time to talk about his own stuff with.
And that kinda fixes one particular limitation that Ethan’s character faced in Shortpacked. All his relationships in that universe were with limited screen time extras so there was rarely an opportunity to discuss things regarding his identity with many of the major characters outside of on a general queer level with Leslie.
And yeah, shippers are going to ship (and sometimes annoyingly so) because queer people in love are cute and we’re always so starved for enough of it in our media.
But oh, to answer a point from earlier that’s only tangentially related:
Becky intentionally flirted with someone to make her actual romantic interest jealous (which is actually much worse):
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/jealous/
Billie hasn’t flirted per se (and I’m not sure she would have the energy to, given that her current arc is about collapsing deeper and deeper into a co-dependent self-destructive relationship and so she’s barely seeing other people enough on a close enough level to start flirting) with others, but definitely makes some statements that imply to using potential attractions or history as a means of sparking jealousy:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/market/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/jumper/
And I mean, Walky’s supposedly straight, but he does his fair share of queer flirting:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/04-walking-with-dina/jim/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/tall/
And as far as “unconsciously flirt” there was the whole exchange with Becky that led Joyce to conclude that they were flirting with each other and had Becky confirming it albeit as a tactic to try and get Joyce to open up about the feelings Becky at the time assumed she had.
Walky in particular is pretty flirty overall, because he has a charismatic type personality when he cares enough to show it.
Ah, to have the lack of introspection of youth once again.
Don’t be silly, Danny’s relationship with a woman isn’t silly because he’s bi, it’s silly because she’s batshit nuts, he doesn’t understand her at all, and the whole thing is built on lies and manipulation.
It’s really not surprising the fanbase prefers to focus on the possibility that is 1) emotionally stable 2) cute as hell and 3) something we don’t already have 4) not obviously doomed to end in fire.
You’ll notice people only started focusing on how “batshit nuts” and unstable Amber was for Danny when he started getting shipped with Ethan. Until then it was, of course, about how Danny is a stupid jackass who doesn’t appreciate her. Now that there’s a man he can hook up with, well of course Amber is super flawed and crazy and liable to snap.
You’re forgetting that we only learned just how batshit nuts she was right before Danny and Ethan started spending time together. It’s literally the reason they started hanging out together.
Amber was always batshit nuts. People just ignored it and treated her as cool and awesome until Danny imagined kissing Ethan.
Well, yes, I’ve been saying it for years. But the comic didn’t make clear that she was barely holding together until she had her breakdown when Blaine kidnapped Danny, afterward he started hanging out with Ethan.
It probably started to emerge after Amber started getting really technical about their relationship. The whole ‘you’re not dating me, you’re dating Amazi-Girl’ was just pointing to a shipwreck.
I mean, people were also waiting for Joyce/Ethan to ship, because that was a terrible relationship. Billie/Ruth is possibly the next most poisonous, but I think people are still hanging on and hoping for a resolution to that situation.
Frankly, I think it would have been a much better representation of bisexuality if Danny was never shown as being attracted to another man at all.
So, like Ruth or Marcie? Or Billie in the Walkyverse, where her bisexuality was only revealed much later post-Roomies in a bonus strip?
Exactly like those two examples of bisexual characters that have only ever been portrayed as being in a relationship with a member of the same sex and that other example of someone that was only portrayed as being in a relationship with members of the same sex until a later strip showed her being attracted to a member of the same sex.
Of course, that still leaves DoA Billie who has shown sexual attraction to both genders.
Man, for a poorly represented group in this comic, there’s a lot of bisexuals that have been shown expressing their sexuality on-screen in a number of different ways!
Well written bi ladies in a series explicitly designed to be almost entirely about women isn’t equivalent to the single bi dude, one of two LGBT dudes in the cast, getting shipped with another guy because he was literally written as bi to be shipped with a dude.
I know that I prefer bisexual dude’s to never, ever be shipped with other dudes. It’s the only way we can have excellent representation of bisexual guys. after all.
I kind of like it when their current relationships aren’t ignored just so they can eyes at hunky boys. I like it when bi dudes don’t solely exist in a series just to fill a notch.
What the fuck does that mean, how would that be a good representation of bi people!?
What if we thought that Amber was in a really unhealthy place way before Danny and Ethan even started talking to each other? (I’m pretty sure people have been calling Amber crazy ever since the first chapter of book 4, and Danny and Ethan didn’t really start having their kinda of flirty relationship until the last chapter of that book. That’s several months of difference in our time there)
Of course she is. That’s kind of secondary to what I’m actually talking about. Amber was always unhealthy, but people didn’t want Danny with someone else until after we learned he was bisexual.
Granted, part of that’s because no one else really seemed appropriate at the time. (Danny’s other main interactions have been with Dorothy, his ex who’s moved on, and Joe, who even if he was interested is kind of a total jackass. Note that there was also a lot of Ethan being shipped with Jocelyne before her reveal during the Family Weekend arc.)
I agree that these interactions are REALLY WEIRD with Danny still with Amber, and every scene with them together and happy seems even weirder knowing there’s this going on too. (I’ve basically been going, “Crap, hanging out with Ethan brings out the best in Danny, but I REALLY WANT Amber to be as relatively stable as possible” this whole time, and I know there are quite a few other commenters with the same mindset.) I think part of the problem is there also had to be Danny’s whole self-discovery arc at the same time as all of this, which means the “Oh crap I have a crush on my new friend wait what” bit to prompt it.
On the bright side, there are some – tangential – dudes interested in dudes that were introduced in the last storyline, so maybe it’s not too much to hope for one of them getting more characterization with Ethan hanging out with them at some point? Which would give us an alternative and more representation, especially if they turn out to be bi as well and remain a member of the cast after whatever shit will inevitably go down with Amber.
Strips like this make me think that Danny is going to try and distance himself from Ethan. He did do something really similar with Amber when she was making advances towards him and he was insistent that he was dating Amazi Girl. (The two situations aren’t exactly equivalent, especially since Amber = Amazi Girl. But the idea of Danny pushing people away because he’s loyal to Amazi Girl is well established)
Not true, several people have been against Danny/Amber all along. The exact reason have changed. At first the wanted them to break up because Danny was oblivious and feeding her dual persona. Then they wanted them to break up because he suddenly didn’t deserve her because he tried to separate from Amber when she got all clingy and wouldn’t explain why (we both know that’s bullshit and not his fault), ever since the aftermath of the Blaine arc it’s shifted to being because now they get how unstable Amber is. Plus they now have a superior pairing to root for instead.
It’s like when you get to dinner time and you really don’t want to eat the meal but you know desert is going to be amazing, you just really want to skip to the good part and ignore all the garbage you’ll have to chew through to get to it.
People can hate Danny all they want. I don’t need to be okay with it if someone’s stated reason is “Danny needs to hook up with a guy now.”
In a vacuum I know I’m going to like Danny and Ethan, but there’s too much ugly context around it for me to really appreciate it, I guess. I see strips like this and it’s just “oh hey, now i remember why i fucking hate it.”
People can hate Danny and Amber together all they want*
But they’re not saying he needs to hook up with ‘a guy’ they’re specific. They want Pairing B instead of Pairing A.
And it’s just a coincidence that Pairing B is the only male romance in the entire series? It “just happened” that pairing was so much more appealing that we had people hollering for it same day we learned that Danny was bi?
I understand that you see it that way and more power to you, but there’s little anyone can say to convince me that most of the Danny/Ethan shipping is anything but “they’re both guys”, especially with some of the genuinely disgusting posts about them I’ve come across (like literally with some people saying “I don’t care what’s happening so why don’t they just fuck now”).
I’m pretty sure for Time Monkey, it’s the definition of coincidence? Maybe I’ve misread him, but I’m pretty sure he’s a straight man pulling for this because it makes the characters happy (Perhaps I’m projecting, although substitute gay woman there).
I’m a gay dude actually.
My mistake entirely, my apologies!
Clearly the solution is for Joe and Walky to just come out as bi already (or possibly for us to see a trans gay man develop from the cast) so that there are more shipping fuel options for people who want to ship main characters… That said, it wouldn’t be out of the norm for a side-character to step up into the big leagues (already happened with Becky after all).
^^^
This exactly.
Which for my money is why Ruth/Billie doesn’t have an equally loud group of people hoping for its end. If Billie or Ruth made eyes with someone who was demonstrably way more stable I bet the fandom would splinter hard.
Though in the case of R/B, they’re kind of both unstable in different ways, so… Less of a clear cut “this person could be happier in a more functional relationship” thing.
On a side note, I notice I’ve become way less defensive of R/B. It’s probably because I now have other f/f pairings to ship that are less doomed, so I’m not clinging desperately to the one and only canon option for representing me. (Please don’t suggest Daisy, and Leslie is great but both a minor character and currently single. I’m actually nervous for her seeming interest in Robin since Willis has generally seemed uninterested in repeat pairings.)
Anyway. The “who has more representation” question is pretty much always a weird and difficult one. Bi people have very little as a group, and I would say bi men are probably less common than bi women, but that doesn’t mean that most bi women are… I mean we are kind of fetishized??? More “serious” portrayals are usually guys, and that some effort has been made to combat that over the last year doesn’t suddenly make it untrue.
Bi men get a better rep than bi women, because bi women are a thing for dudes to ogle. Bi women usually exist in fiction to let a man have his three-way (The correct kind, not the ‘devil’s threeway’, which ugh.) Bi men may sometimes be a joke (Such as ‘the Todd’ on Scrubs, though he was a joke way before we knew he was bi at least)
And yes, Billie/Ruth fandom would splinter hard, because people ship LOTS of things (I wouldn’t, but I, perhaps horribly wrongly, see too much of myself in Ruth). Spencer conveniently forgets that the only person not shipped at the drop of a hat is Billie (to my knowledge). Like, did he forget Danny/Sal was a thing with the commentariat for a while? Walky/Becky? Dotty/Joyce (Guilty)? Like, I do legit get being offended here, because a lot of it is straight women who are doing it for their entertainment (FTR, I do prefer Ethan/Danny, but I get no pleasure from it – I just sincerely believe they’ll be happier, and I like them both enough to want that.), but it’s important to keep an accurate view of the situation.
Merde. Which the wife insists I can’t say but I can at least type it.
“Bi men may sometimes be a joke, but their sexuality is somewhat more real, at least.”
It’s hard to resist shipping Billie/Walky sometimes… but that’s pretty much it?
Um, no. Not at fucking all. What you mean to say is “I did not fucking notice people saying it because I hadn’t decided it was cause to be offensive”.
Can I TL;DR an entire comment chain?
Because I think I just did…
Sorry for not reading your comments, guys!
This comment section just reinforces something that occurred to me the other day: The term “psl” has pretty much died out for Dumbing of Age.
Possibly because of unfortunate connotations, or possibly because the lust part of this comic is so much more serious.
I thought you meant “pumpkin spice lattes” for a minute there, which in a different college-setting webcomic has come to represent, like, sweet and innocent pining (although I’m sure lust is involved to some degree because college and healthy young adult males though I guess it’s possible one of them is ace but I doubt it and DANG but am I digressing hardcore here sorry), so I had to take a moment to figure out what seasonal coffee drinks had to do with this setting
:3
Danny’s in a good mood because he just spent the last 18 hours holding hands and looking at pictures of dinosaurs.
Take it slow. Etghan is nearly an ace, with little evidence that he is actively pursuing anything. Companionship, hand holding and maybe first base would be something that would have to happen to him, rather than something than something he would make happen. Not a blanket lack of agency, just that he is more interested in toy robots instead of bumping uglies.
Danny is a known passive player, so if you wait for him to make an aggressive move, you might be waiting a long time. Again, not some blanket lack of agency, but just how he is.
Like Dina and Becky, they may recognize the attraction and spend time together without it moving around the bases very fast.
The only way this happens is if Amber notices and gives it a push. Until then, happy Danny and Ethan are much better than their default modes.
Well this isn’t awkward at all…!
It’ll get awkward when they both start sparkling at the same time. Give it ten seconds.
What? So now they are vampires as well? Noooooooooooo!
Sparkly vampires aren’t vampires!
All I want is a polyamorous relationship between Amber, Danny and Ethan. I NEED for this to not end in tears.
It doesn’t have to end in tears. Amber and Danny can have a mutual decision to break up for many obvious reasons. The Danny can hook up with Ethan and Amber can enjoy watch two dudes she finds attractive touching each other.
How do I end italics!?
I’m stuck in italics now!
It’s like the caps lock guy all over again!
After staring into Danny’s bottomless eyes for several minutes, I notice that the two panels are not identical. Willis actually took the time to draw Danny with the same expression twice. That’s work ethic, and it’s what gives Danny the power to consume my soul.
D… Danny?
http://i.imgur.com/5PcMdd5.png
http://i.imgur.com/gqhopFx.gif
Funny. In Shortpacked, I disliked Ethan (due to his constant hypocrisy) but I found myself sympathetic to him here in Dumbing. Danny is a tool who doesn’t know what he wants, and is more focused on that than the effects of his whiny selfish needs on others.
I think here, Ethan will do the right thing. The last thing he would do would involve hurting Amber. He might get close, but I don’t think he’d cross that line.
everyone is so cute and I know it is probs not an option here but open honest poly is my jam, communication and compromise negotiation and aaaaaaaaa
I thought the squeeing would stop after looking at this strip 15 times but Ethan’s face in the fifth panel is just so… *squee*
Once again I ask what happens when Amber’s boyfriend leaves her for her ex-boyfriend?
A mouthful of conversation perhaps? “My ex-boyfriend’s boyfriend who’s also my ex-boyfriend…” or just short and sweet “My exes, who are now each other’s boyfriends…”