It’s like a survival mechanism–three meals a day at college was bullshit =p [sure, the cafeteria was “unlimited” but who can eat “all you can eat” three times a day and still be able to go places]
My freshman year, I got the cheapest meal plan, which would only last the semester if I ate in the cafeteria only once or twice a day. I didn’t do that, and shortly after midterms I realized I had eaten all my allotted meals. I was starting to panic, when I discovered just how incompetent the cafeteria clerks were. You paid for your meal by swiping a card through a scanner, and most of the time the worker did it mindlessly, not bothering to look at the computer screen to see if you had any more points on your card (especially during busy peak hours). I never bought another meal plan and I ate for free the rest of my time in college, only being turned away maybe a dozen times in 3 and a half years.
A fair number of students thought they were able to do that at our campus, too…except it turns out the swipes weren’t “blank,” they were acting as a charge card once the points ran out, and the students who thought they were getting free meals got a huge bill at the end of the semester that needed to be paid before they could get their degree (graduates) or register for the next semester.
That’s how evolution works. The students who are able to find free food and thus survive and reproduce, passing on the genes responsible for their food-locating prowess, while the others starve to death or are hunted and eaten by roving varsity teams.
It’s not as hard as you think if you know the right functions. The key is sticking to your age group so it’s believable when you pretend to care about what they’re doing. Don’t try weddings they rarely serve pizza and it’s difficult if you don’t look like either family. Colleges are great if you know when semsters start and end they’re always throwing some party somewhere at those times and pizza’s the obvious go to. Just keep searching. You’d be surprised how much free food falls when you’re willing to sit for an hour or two.
If you are near a decent sized University, look for any Symposiums they may be hosting. Pretty sure that’s Greek for “Free Food.” Last semester I had prime rib twice in two weeks, and free wine another two times. Another bit to look for is anything showing grad student research. They are older than the usual college population, sometimes have a stipend for aiding in research, and occasionally have some sort of after party if you fit in with them.
Don’t forget gallery receptions! If your university has an arts program odds are good that they also have a gallery with student shows on a regular basis. Mine did, and we had closing receptions every couple weeks with wine and snacks. It’s not full meals but if you just need something to tide you over until the next morning then it’s worth a visit. Plus, yanno, you get to see some neat artwork.
Dude, I can hook you up, wanna hear about some time shares? Doesn’t matter, just show up, you’ll get free food, you want pizza specifically, ok and I can hook you up exclusively with those gigs. I can’t make it happen for you everyday – unless you want to travel all over the country – But we’re talking at least once a month if you’ve got some savings and investments to demonstrate you’re a potential buyer.
If you live in a city with a major airport hub I have to ask, how do you feel about pretending to work for random national sales companies during their training seminars?
^ This. My gaydar works fine, and I identified plenty of gay friends (and family members) before they came out. My husband was floored that I knew about his sister before anyone else in the family. And when I get the inevitable, “Why didn’t you say anything?” I always respond with, “It’s not my place to say anything. Whether or not anyone says anything about their sexuality is entirely up to that person alone.”
Not sure why that’s such a hard concept for people to wrap their head around.
aren’t closets imbedded into walls? that’d be more of an invisible wardrobe, yeah? does sort of raise the question of what all being “in the wardrobe” would entail…
This strip has me trying to figure out what combination of pizza toppings could form a rainbow without using food colorant~ You can get red, green and yellow with bell peppers (or tomatoes, ananas if that’s your thing, and some vegetable or other), orange with certain types of pesto… but beyond that IDK..
Okay, have you ever actually seen blue cheese that was blue? It’s usually just white like other cheese, with maybe some blue specks or veins in it. If your cheese is actually blue, you should probably throw it out…
You’d have to add the blueberries after it was cooked though. Cooked blueberries turn red. Also – I love blueberries, but I’m pretty sure they would be terrible on pizza.
You can actually cover all the colors but blue and indigo just with bell peppers fairly easily. You’d most likely have to special order the purple peppers or grow them yourself however as they are rare at best in supermarkets.
Blue and indigo are probably the biggest sticking point in general, since most natural blue pigments (including indigo) found in foods don’t hold up well when cooked nor in the presence of acids, and most foods are acidic. A blue cheese, such as a gorgonzola, is most likely the best option for visible blue, but quite a number of people don’t enjoy them on a taste level.
I’d personally roll with thin tomato slices, julienned orange bell pepper, thin sliced summer squash, rough chopped fresh spinach or basil, gorgonzola and thin sliced eggplant.
I guess it’s officially canon that the exploding flaming splinters of Becky’s nuclear closet explosion has cast a shadow on any other recent coming outs. 😉
“The price for our ‘free’ gay pizza is enduring the occasional friendly butt-grope!” *grope*
“Um, my pants are on backwards.”
“So?”
“So, that’s not my butt.”
“!<3!"
I like how everyone has flung up their arms in the last panel except for Dina. I also like that Walky has a plate to eat off of, but he’s holding the pizza a foot away from it and gesturing around to fling crumbs and smear grease everywhere.
It’s not really funny. Especially when you are spending most if not all of your time being super careful of your words and actions. Not to mention the obsessing over innocuous comments you’ve made and suddenly fear will out you.
This is why your first reaction to someone coming out to you should not be something to the effect of “I know”.
It will only add to the aniexty of who else knows and what have I been doing to out myself.
I speak from my experience of being a closeted bisexual.
Personally I loved being told they already knew. It meant nothing would change, not the way they treated me, not the way I needed to act, nothing.
People are different and have different needs. to some apathy is the cruelest thing they can receive when they come out, to others it’s the greatest relief.
Hell, just look at Ethan and Becky, Becky LOVES nobody giving a shit, it makes this place safe and feeing for her. For Ethan hes been angsting about it so much he NEEDS it to be a big deal because he’s built it up so much. Walky’s reacted the same way to both of them, indifferent, and received vastly different reactions.
Finally! I hope this means he can finally be out to all his friends. I also hope he doesn’t think he needs to say anything because he’ll assume all of his friends have figured it out. *cough cough* Danny *cough*
I found it by searching for strips with walky + dorothy (http://www.dumbingofage.com/tag/dorothy+walky/page/4/). you know props to this site for 1) having good tags for all of the strips and 2) having a search-by-tag function that works with multiple tags.
No, you know, actually I think this is exactly what he wanted. To not have to hide who he is, but also to not have him being gay being the sole defining feature of his personality. Like, being thought of as “that gay guy” above all else, instead of, like, “that huge nerd” or “that really tall guy”.
He’s been keeping it quiet and just found out that everybody already knows and he couldn’t tell, because they were just treating him as “Ethan”.
It’s a shock; but it’s also exactly what he wanted. 🙂
Ethan runs into a guy at the meeting and they actually start hitting it off. Cue Danny about to step into the meeting, seeing Ethan having a good time, then scurrying away in embarrassment.
I think that a lot of readers are expecting something to happen with Danny far too soon. Right now, his relationship with Amber is his focus and any attraction he feels to a man isllikely to be rejected because he’d perceive it as betraying her.
I’m not so much expecting something flirty or romantic or anything, as much as just a really awkward exchange between the two where Danny finds out Ethan’s gay and he just blushes like crazy and blurts some senseless things~ . :3
I’m sort of shocked that this surprised Ethan. Didn’t Walky basically accuse him of being in the closet when they were on the double date? I would have thought that it was at least possible that he’d guessed!
Meanwhile, Joyce is enjoying that peculiar form of social death that you only experience when a dear friend starts raving in public.
Walk plays it cool here, but in truth it was a huge relief when he finally deduced that Ethan was gay, as opposed to being a fugitive who wanted to kill him and steal his way macho shirt.
Being as macho as Walky, you have to live with that fear constantly. If it’s not Ethan it’s someone else. But Walky will be ready to fend them off with just the raw power of his super genius.
Joyce told Dorothy (more or less) and so Dorothy didn’t need Walky to “spell it out for her”. Oh my goddess, if one of my friends had had a Walky-like boyfriend at college I would have been severely provoked to kick him at least once each time we ‘d have met. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/bestfriend/
You are both right. He is saying “you”, and because I was already annoyed with his attitude, “heard” something different (and vaguely wondered why Joyce reacted so strongly).
Huh. Just like in real life… 😳
I get that, but, well, in real life it does happen that the people around you will notice before you’ve said anything. Sometimes even before you’ve even admitted it to yourself. And, to be fair, the “buncha” people who we know to know are either people who have good intuition (Sarah), people who’ve been told (Joyce, Dorothy, Amber, Mike and Dina), and, well, Walky, who has been so influenced by media that he can’t imagine a straight guy wouldn’t touch their girlfriend in public.
But they’re not oblivious, they all found out through totally logical ways. Dina put information together, Ethan observed his behaviour, Dorothy pieced together what Joyce was saying.
Plus Ethan has been far from subtle. His mouth says ‘I’m straight’ every other part of him is flirting hard with every attractive guy he runs into.
It is kind of antiquated and doesn’t really apply irl.
But then we wouldn’t have Ethan being Ethan (at least not how he’s been acting most of this comic about sed topic). Would also make the comic more dramatic (as opposed to a comedy), since this is obviously ‘hijinks ensue’ territory hence makes the general mood more jovial, as is befitting the comic’s tone.
Now that you pointed it out, I feel compelled to analyze the potential benefits of the trope a bit.
It seems to me that the reason it’s unrealistic is to lighten the mood when discussing a rather serious subject – therefore making it more palpable to those that are either unfamiliar with sed subject matter, or to those that don’t enjoy too much seriousness in their fiction. A light tone also sends the message of “it’s not THAT bad”, which can make grave problems feel more manageable – aiding the characters in dealing with them, while endearing sed trial and tribulations towards the readers (thus sympathizing sed struggle to the reader).
The unpleasant connotations are rather glaring though, but from what I can see it does have it’s positive effects – weather or not those are sufficient for yourself to if not like, at least tolerate it, is of course up to you.
I was simply trying to show a silver lining in something that
obviously upsets you.
jfc. can u acknowledge that this webcomic isn’t a documentary or a memoir, it’s actually a piece of fictional media? media, moreover, that is written by a cis straight man? who might possibly be lacking a certain amount of nuanced insight into lgbt matters? & might be using certain recurring fictional tropes? that i, as a Real Life Lesbian, might have reason to criticize? while at the same time not actually criticizing real life events in any way at all?
in other words, ofc this is a thing that really happens, but i personally Hate its repeated, belittling utilization in fictional media.
Please take note as to why “I know” is not a good reaction to someone coming out to you. Unless you are in the following situation: http://explosm.net/comics/3664/
So… why is that not okay? I’ve heard coming out stories where a parent responded with “I know” when told and the person coming out was extremely relieved (though also often regretful that they didn’t come out sooner as it might have spared them a lot of energy and heartache).
There’s a difference between “I know, and I support and love you” like any morally sound parent should do for their kids and “I know, but I don’t give a shit because it has no effect on me” like Walky is here.
Also, Ethan’s alarm here is amusing to us, maybe, but when you’re actually going through it and HAVING that panic of “holy shit, how obvious am I, I didn’t want to be out to anyone but the person I’m talking to,” it’s not funny. (Not everyone HAS that panic, but Ethan is clearly experiencing it, and I’ve felt it, and it is awful.)
Depending on how it’s said, it can also be really condescending. Sometimes people will tell you they’ve known for a long time, longer than YOU knew it about yourself, and that’s just embarrassing at best.
And usually, as in this case, the cues they’re using? Are giant stereotypes, which aren’t exactly the most accepting things in the world.
Story time: I was maybe 14, came out to a much older family friend out of necessity (I don’t remember my exact reason, maybe she’d suggested fixing me up with a young boy she knew?). She first told me she’d figured as much because of my CD collection, which was entirely the product of my mom and stepfather’s taste in music; and then she told me it had been too long for her, since she’d last met a gay person, so she was “due”.
Yeah, like… technically supportive? But it made me feel like shit. I’d chosen to trust her with something I was afraid of telling people, and she didn’t value that trust at all. I was nothing to her, just another “gay” blip in her life.
(Also, that I’d felt like I NEEDED to come out to her, whether because she was trying to fix me up with a boy or something else? Kind of a giveaway that she DID NOT, in fact, know, unless she was trying to trap me into coming out. In which case, what the ever loving fuck was wrong with her.)
How do you know what cues they’ve been using to ‘sniff’ out Ethan? Though you have a point, there is also the counterpoint that there’s a reason such stereotypes exist – because indeed, there are some gay people that adhere to them.
Just as someone acting like a duchebro is -probably- a duchebro.
It’s by no means smart if that was how they figured it out, but… well, to be frank, they’re still all quite young and inexperienced. They’re allowed to be semi-clueless for a while longer.
I do hope you don’t take offense to this, but your family’s friend sounds like an idiot. I’m pretty sure those people aren’t able, mentally, to understand the issue or be supportive. Your posts and mine do tend to clash, li (you may not have noticed since I’m relatively new to the comic and hence posted on things that date years in the past), but you are far too smart to be complemented or to feel supported by such hogwash (even if those CD’s where bought by yourself).
“I was nothing to her, just another “gay” blip in her life.” – well, before you having to tell her something deeply personal, wasn’t she something similar to you? I’d say that’s fair. Yes, she could have been more friendly, or supportive, but you two didn’t really seem like buddy-buddy material as far as your account of it goes… what I’m trying to say is you seemed to have had unrealistic expectations there.
I get the bruised feelings, but that’s really not that person’s fault. Not everyone will or even should care. I mean, would you REALLY want her to care? For her and you to become closer? Again, from what I can tell by reading many of your past comments, someone that insipid would piss you off/annoy you. You’re better off with her not caring.
She didn’t know, obviously. People say bullshit like that all the time to seem more insightful then they are. You must understand that others like her (ie: insipid people), consider such obviously bullshit blustering to be witty! It’s really not, but to them it -appears- as such. *shrug*
[Y]our family friend sounds like an idiot. I’m pretty sure those people aren’t able, mentally, to understand the issue or be supportive.
Holy crap, nooooo no no no no no. Please. Do not go here.
First off, she isn’t. She’s quite bright, quite educated, quite liberal. She was just also insensitive, as frankly you have been yourself in this very thread, to how her well-meaning response made me feel.
Second of all, REALLY? You jump to developmentally disabled from bad ally? Holy crap how incredibly gross, both of you to assume that only unintelligent people are capable of being jerks and to assume that all people with developmental disabilities are shitty.
“I was nothing to her, just another “gay” blip in her life.” – well, before you having to tell her something deeply personal, wasn’t she something similar to you? I’d say that’s fair.
Evidently “family friend” doesn’t mean the same thing to everyone that it means to my family. That’s fair, but you’ve assumed a lot of things here that are not true at all.
“Family friends” are, for me, basically extensions of my family. They are people who are more or less aunts and uncles to me, who have known me since I was tiny. I actually really cared about what this woman thought of me, like, a lot.
I mean, would you REALLY want her to care? For her and you to become closer? Again, from what I can tell by reading many of your past comments, someone that insipid would piss you off/annoy you. You’re better off with her not caring.
This is an incredibly judgmental and insensitive thing for you to say, about anybody.
“They hurt you, but clearly they only hurt you because they’re an idiot, so you shouldn’t let their opinion affect you.” Like, seriously, fuck you. You do realize you are saying this retroactively to a fourteen-year-old? She should just turn off her emotions and cease to be invested in people who have hurt her? That responsibility, that onus, is on HER? Gross.
Given all of this, I don’t really feel inclined to try to address whatever point you thought you were making about stereotypes. (I mean, Walky LITERALLY was using a stereotype about straight men as being physical and handsy. We LITERALLY know it was a stereotype in his case, just as it was a stereotype about liking the Indigo Girls in my case.) Sometimes they’re true, that’s your defense? Lol.
a) Odd, usually well-meaning people don’t say something that blatantly dismissive. But I suppose everyone has their off days. That sed, with the information I had on her, that’s exactly how she came off. Good to know she wasn’t like that all the time. Still, her comment was deeply insipid and that says something about her.
Um, no, I was being flippant. I was calling her an idiot, not saying she had developmental disabilities. Heck, that would have been a mitigating factor if it existed.
I was stating that there’s plenty of people that can’t grasp this sort of issue and have zero interest or capability to do so – they aren’t disabled, simply unintelligent or uncaring.
Also, I never sed ONLY unintelligent people are capable of being jerks – simply that with the data you gave and the way you presented it, this seemed to be the case for her in particular.
b) I, in fact, only assumed ‘family friends’ are friends of your family – as opposed to your personal friends. In other words, I had no assumptions – just a textbook definition.
I’d have judged the situation differently if you sed she also happened to be -your- friend.
” “Family friends” are, for me, basically extensions of
my family.” – as you noted before, this is not the case for everyone. The meaning of the word simply states that someone is a friend of the family – not necessarily to you, without further clarification I had no reason to assume otherwise. Be more descriptive if you wish to avoid confusion.
“I actually really cared about what this woman thought of me, like, a lot.” Ah, well then, I can only say that I am sorry she disappointed you such.
Side-note: My family had quite a few friends and some I liked a lot – considered them personal friends (my mother’s and father’s friends especially) – and others I disliked and only gave the due respect they where owed from being friends with someone in my family (mostly these where my grandfather’s drinking buddies – a crass, smelly and unintelligent, if jovial lot).
c) Again, you assume I knew you considered her your friend as well. With what you sed previously, I only knew she was friends with your family, not you, hence what I sed.
“You do realize you are saying this retroactively to a fourteen-year-old?” – I was not saying it retroactively to a 14 year old, I was saying it to you, whatever your age might now be.
I was also talking about someone that you -just- stated was misrepresented, hence with this new information I must change my stance to: “She failed that time, but it wasn’t obviously malicious. Just insipid. If you say she’s worth it, I’ll take that at face value and… well, sorry to hear you had a bad experience. Hopefully you won’t let it bother you too much.” Because now, with more data I have a clearer picture of what happened and how it might have affected you, and why.
“that onus, is on HER?” If you’re talking about the responsibility of who you’re interested in being friends with – yes, that is most defiantly on yourself (or how you phrased it, on that fourteen-year-old).
We make choices and we have to live with them, even at 14. It IS our choice with who we want to spend time with, though perhaps not so much a conscious one at times.
I’m not saying that the blame for other’s actions and insensitivity is on you (it is most solidly on them), simply that you should try to know who you’re dealing with and act to the best of your knowledge.
As I sed before, I don’t know how Walky figured it out. That probably is me not remembering, but that being such I can’t fault him for something I don’t know he did. If it’s as you say and it was simply Ethan being “physical and handsy” – well, Walky… you need to learn a thing or two about how real life works… but then again since Walky’s the comic’s Jester role, I’m not sure that’s a thing he should ever know. Irl, I’d facepalm, but seeing as he’s in-comic, I’ll simply take it for what it is – silly Walky being silly for that is his role (he’s also pointing out it’s silly, so it’s really more of a criticism to sed modes of thinking, as we
can clearly see Walky is being ridiculous, if that’s how he ‘knew’).
Yes, sometimes stereotypes are relevant; mostly they’re not.
It really depends on the stereotype in question, as some have reasonable (if full of holes) logic behind them and others use taste in music, which is utter poppycock.
In this comic: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/exclusivity/
Walky tells Dorothy that Ethan’s hands never being near Joyce told him that Ethan was gay, and he basically says the same thing in the following comic. A big flaw in this reasoning is that Ethan could be respecting Joyce’s boundaries in regard to Ryan’s assault, and this is something Walky knows about.
Walky follows stereotypes for how he should be manly, one major example being that he only owns one pair of shoes because only girls have more than one pair of shoes.
Even though Walky makes a lot of jokes when he’s around it doesn’t negate the fact that he applies damaging stereotypes, says insensitive and dismissive things to the people around him. Just like in real life, you are not immune to being called on your actions because you make jokes from time to time.
I’m gonna be honest, I didn’t even get through the second paragraph of this reply. Too much condescension. Clearly very little, if any, interest in accepting that your words had been poorly-chosen. Nope, it’s all my fault for not being even more long-winded and going into even more detail about my personal life for the sake of making a point on here to protect you from accidentally making assumptions.
You were wrong about me, you were wrong about her. You were wrong, both in my thread and talking to Cerberus, to try to dictate how queer people should feel about coming out, who we should “let” ourselves be invested in (as if emotions have an off/on switch; for most people, they don’t), or… like, anything else about being queer, if I’m correct in reading that you’re straight and cis.
Just let it go at that, dude. Or don’t, but I’m not going to be reading any reply you make here. Coming back THIS time was already so clearly a waste of my time.
(For what it’s worth, since I didn’t acknowledge it before, I didn’t recognize your username. So I wasn’t preemptively reacting badly to you. And I won’t preemptively react badly to you in the future, either. I’m not interested in having feuds with people on here. I’m just… also not interested in putting my reactions to homophobia up for debate. Sorry not sorry.)
This as well. “I know” preceding love and support and a demonstration that that won’t affect how the person coming out is treated is a positive and a really awesome thing to do. “I know” being used as a tool to try and yank back the attention can be super shitty and a red flag* and can be really painful for the person agonizing over it.
*Red flag because often those dismissive type of seemingly-supportive comments can precede the beginning of that identity being buried or ignored and let fester a lot of bigoted ideas that will explode more violently or toxically later. Someone saying “I know already, why are we even talking about this?” is much more likely to throw a bunch of bigoted and unsupportive garbage down the line because they cut off the opportunity for the person coming out to humanize themselves and build a healthy relationship.
Personally, I fell for the false support trap with my family and that ended up burning me bad down the road when I was assuming they were chill about things and they were actually filling themselves with a lot of bad information and toxicity.
Some people just genuinely don’t care about the sexuality of others though, or consider it so normalized that its not even a thing. You aren’t special, you’re just gay. Why would anyone but jerks and people who want to pursue a relationship with you care?
They do care, but they don’t want to be read accurately as bigots whose way of interacting is different because of the way you are, so instead there’s this aggressive enforcement of a normativity.
There’s a difference between “cool dude, well in that case, bring your boyfriend over” and “why are you even bringing up this queer shit, we don’t care. Why do you have to make everything about how queer you are with your ‘boyfriend this’ stuff?”.
And there’s a still further difference between both of those and what I encountered too many times at the last Dyke March of bros loudly stating how they don’t even care that their friend is queer while they go around taunting the actual lesbians, throwing food on them, and constantly pestering all of them for threesomes.
Apathy can be painful, can be used as a tool to hurt and to enforce a normativity just as it can be used as a means to show that it won’t affect how someone is treated.
Pure apathy though can be really shitty even if intended positively, because though it may not matter to you straight person, it sure as hell matters to the queer person. It dictates who they will likely love, how their relationships will be treated, whether or not they’ll have a harder time finding a job, whether or not they’re in genuine risk of violence for being outside as themselves, and where their rights are constantly under attack or straight up denied.
Being queer affects queer individuals greatly, so sometimes a straight person going “so why should I care” can be really alienating and gross and make it harder to feel safe being out and exploring their identity (see the comments here when Becky was trying to figure out what her queer identity was).
Gay rights aren’t solved. There are still social consequences, even fatal consequences for being queer in some locations. So yeah, it’s not just normalized and nothing and someone taking the risk to tell you should be respected in that instead of dismissed as “ungh, what do you think you’re special or something” because that’s really douchey.
“why are you even bringing up this queer shit, […] how queer you are with your ‘boyfriend this’ stuff?”
Well, that’s not apathy – that’s obvious malicious bullshit. Separate from Walky and those like him, which are quite apathetic to the subject matter. To be fair, if the gay person keeps bringing it up time after time, it can be more of a poor reaction to a irritating habit. For example, I don’t bring up ponies where it’s not appropriate, or constantly, because that would be irritating the people around me with my own interests that aren’t shared by my current peers. Simple fix for that, get new peers or drop the tired line. BUUUT, what you posed really REALLY sounds malicious, or at best uncomfortable from the ones that say it. Oh, and there’s that – some people aren’t comfortable with the topic while not letting it affect their behavior towards you. Insisting on it would be intrusive from the lgbt’s part, and not cool. But really, the quote sounds rather crass and shitty regardless of intent.
The dudebros that throw… tomatoes (ffs) and talk smack with the lesbians… yeah, classic example of how even major assholes have friends they’re willing to stand by, but will still be major assholes to everyone else – making them no better then the major assholes they always where. Also I want to punch them. In the face. Then go watch yuri anime with the lesbians.
“whether or not they’ll have a harder time finding a job” – I’m pretty sure there’s laws against that. Sadly I wouldn’t be surprised if they aren’t followed. It is an extra layer of bullshit that lgbt’s have to get through if they want to be open about their sexuality.
While I agree it might hurt to have people apathetic towards you, that’s not really on them. That is your own cross to bear, sad as it is. But we all have them, just different ones. Take divorce for example – it might hurt me if affected, but I can’t expect any degree of sympathy past a cordial ‘that sucks’ from most people – heck, sometimes you’ll get shit like “but now you’re FREE! LOLOLOL!”… yeah, that’s the opposite of helping, but foolish as it might be, it’s their point of view and it would be a huge wasted effort to try to swing it in the way I want it to go – not to mention it would be completely self-serving. My problem, not theirs – unless they’re a close friend; case in which it would be pretty shitting of them to not care at all.
You should never feel 100% safe, that’s just being naive.
Not the world we have to live in, and no amount of trying will change that fundamentally. There should always be a measure of readiness to defend yourself verbally or otherwise when going outside – after all, not all people are kind.
Some are evil, and one must accept that as a matter of survival. It’s why we learn early on not to trust strangers with candy.
This isn’t sad, it’s realism.
“Gay rights aren’t solved.” Human rights aren’t solved in many locations. Should I even mention religious rights? There’s a whole new country that wants to kill most of us for not adhering to their specific dogma.
But as far as minority groups go, gays do have it quite good in certain areas (Germany is really big on sed issue, for example). Not a reason to stop putting the word out there, but there’s never a time to do that – society evolves constantly, not always in the same way it did in the last 10 years.
However, LGBT social reforms have come a LONG way since the 80s.
“ungh, what do you think you’re special or something” – yeah, that is douchey. But that seems like the kind of thing a low-tier douchebag would say. Avoid him, no harm done. Meanwhile there are people that will actually care that you’d be better advised spending your time around. If you have no other choice, then it is tolerable (people should develop a minimum of thick skin, there are worse things in life to worry about then low-tier douchebags like this one) – mostly because such people tend not to care about you or your feelings, so appealing to that won’t get you anywhere.
To be fair, if the gay person keeps bringing it up time after time, it can be more of a poor reaction to a irritating habit. For example, I don’t bring up ponies where it’s not appropriate, or constantly, because that would be irritating the people around me with my own interests that aren’t shared by my current peers. Simple fix for that, get new peers or drop the tired line.
See that’s the thing. A lot of straight people who think they are well-meaning have that exact attitude. Ugh, I said I supported you already, why are you still talking about that? Why are you bringing up your girlfriend? Why are you talking about homophobia? Why are you chattering about this law that would grant you more rights?
Being queer has impact on our daily lives in the same way that being straight is. Straight people aren’t often aware of how much they throw their straightness in everyone’s faces. Hey, check out my boyfriend’s picture. So we’re planning to get married soon. Oh, hey, isn’t it annoying when (sexist stereotype). Hey bros, man that (famous actress) sure is hot isn’t she.
But are very quick to notice when queer people talk about their lives in the same way. I mean, that whole last exchange sounded perfectly normal and what are you even talking about, right? And that’s the thing. Because of the marginalization, talking about family, friends, weekend activities, daily touches of life, and so on is seen as actively political and as throwing queerness around.
And since that has been socially buried for so long, there’s a lot of social pressure on queer people to shut up about things less they, as you note, annoy people by “always taking about queerness”.
And there’s the other example where you compared it to being into ponies. Except this isn’t an interest like your interest in ponies or my excitement about Steven Universe. It’s part of who we are, our identity, and its fundamental to how the world treats us. And the default state is that we’re expected to speak about none of it, which is why when a queer character tries to do what a straight character would do when talking about their lives or respond to that pressure they’re often viewed as shoving it in people’s faces (see any comment section of most every queer show to see the people rolling their eyes at how the queer element was just shoved in their faces and is a little much or really inappropriate and totally threw them out of the experience).
Being asked to shut up about an interest is one thing, but being repeatedly asked to stay silent about our lives, when that silence is often paid back with political consequences against our rights is a problem and that dismissal of it as just another interest one is getting enmeshed in is often a giant red flag (my uncle straight up pulled that one when he was disowning me, that I was just interested in being super gay instead of being a productive member of society… which was because I told him I was trans and defended myself when he got shitty about it).
So yeah, there’s that reality we’re all tiptoeing around.
“whether or not they’ll have a harder time finding a job” – I’m pretty sure there’s laws against that. Sadly I wouldn’t be surprised if they aren’t followed. It is an extra layer of bullshit that lgbt’s have to get through if they want to be open about their sexuality.
The laws a) aren’t well enforced in states that have them, b) aren’t in existence in most states including Indiana, and c) even states that have them often have standardized methods of getting around them (arguments about a queer individual not “fitting into the company culture” is one of the more common ones).
There’s a reason very few office environments have many out queer members and if it’s a middle class job, there’s a reason why there is almost never a trans person in sight (nearly all of the out trans people I know end up working retail or moving into sex work, because so many of the other options end in painful discrimination).
Hell I was discriminated out of a job in the Bay Area a little more than 2 years ago for being trans even though that is illegal in this state.
While I agree it might hurt to have people apathetic towards you, that’s not really on them. That is your own cross to bear, sad as it is. But we all have them, just different ones. Take divorce for example – it might hurt me if affected, but I can’t expect any degree of sympathy past a cordial ‘that sucks’ from most people – heck, sometimes you’ll get shit like “but now you’re FREE! LOLOLOL!”… yeah, that’s the opposite of helping, but foolish as it might be, it’s their point of view and it would be a huge wasted effort to try to swing it in the way I want it to go – not to mention it would be completely self-serving. My problem, not theirs – unless they’re a close friend; case in which it would be pretty shitting of them to not care at all.
Well, most people are very good at showing sympathy for people suffering from normative problems. When straight people divorce or someone has a sick parent, people are very quick to be sympathetic or at least attempt to be kind albeit in terrible ways.
Queer problems? Not so much. I straight up had close family just straight up glare and dismiss the end of an 8.5 year long relationship that was every bit akin to a divorce simply because we were both queer so it was regarded as less valuable than someone’s Vegas wedding and subsequent divorce.
And talking about the human cost of apathy in terms of rights and the regard of one’s humanity? Very few want to hear that shit and people are often quick to beg out of hearing about it without much changing their sympathy for those living it.
Because they have the privilege to not think about it.
You should never feel 100% safe, that’s just being naive.
Not the world we have to live in, and no amount of trying will change that fundamentally. There should always be a measure of readiness to defend yourself verbally or otherwise when going outside – after all, not all people are kind.
Some are evil, and one must accept that as a matter of survival. It’s why we learn early on not to trust strangers with candy.
This isn’t sad, it’s realism.
Yeah, but I manage cis straight people who are white much have to worry about being murdered or have to prepare to withstand a gauntlet of dirty glares and muttered curses everytime they want to buy a carton of milk.
My trans ass… not so much.
Should I even mention religious rights? There’s a whole new country that wants to kill most of us for not adhering to their specific dogma.
I’m just going to straight up waltz right past this without stopping because wow, just wow.
“ungh, what do you think you’re special or something” – yeah, that is douchey. But that seems like the kind of thing a low-tier douchebag would say. Avoid him, no harm done. Meanwhile there are people that will actually care that you’d be better advised spending your time around. If you have no other choice, then it is tolerable (people should develop a minimum of thick skin, there are worse things in life to worry about then low-tier douchebags like this one) – mostly because such people tend not to care about you or your feelings, so appealing to that won’t get you anywhere.
Except those douchebags vote. Those douchebags make up controlling membership on company boards. Those douchebags run HR department. Those douchebags have queer kids. Those douchebags and their assholery may be the difference between whether a young queer kid takes their own life or not.
Saying to ignore it is all well and good when people can ignore it, but those directly affected by bigotry and casual bigotry can’t ignore it because it is what shapes the outline of our lives and our options.
Ethan’s life is shaped by being queer, just as Sarah’s life is shaped by being black, just as Carla’s life is shaped by being ace and trans, just as Dina’s life is shaped by not being neurotypical. They can all have other facets to their lives that make them full characters that we’re interested in, but because of society all those pieces have their impact in how they’re treated, how they struggle, how their struggles are interpreted.
And trying to ignore that with apathy or shrugging about it and waltzing past is certainly a thing that regularly happens, but it is a privilege that those who don’t share those oppressions can afford. It is easy for a white person to claim they don’t see race or a man to say that it shouldn’t matter what gender you are or a straight person to shrug and claim apathy while having an impact on a space.
But that doesn’t mean those are comforting behaivors for those drowning in racism, sexism, or homophobia.
a) “But are very quick to notice when queer people talk about their lives in the same way.” – If that’s the case, why not point it out when it happens? I get your point, but there’s perhaps something else here that’s being neglected – ‘the group and it’s interests’. If it’s a group of say, 7 friends, and 6 of them are straight, I would wager that the topics mentioned above would be interesting to 6 of them, possibly very annoying to one. This is assuming they’re the kind of person you’re talking about – the exacerbated hetero kind that flaunt it without realizing and cast down their gay friends attempts at the same.
This seems like a bad friend-dynamic, and if I’d be the gay one I’m not sure I’d attend many of these gatherings. But there are also the ones that don’t mind either. There’s a lot of variation in nuance that can be had here. If it’s the kind of unfair dynamic you’re referring to, there’s really only 3 ways of dealing with it as the gay friend – explain problem/debate and see where that gets you, remove yourself from sed circle of friends, or accept it as a flaw these friends of yours have but because of other reasons they’re still worth it to have as friends and then you basically ignore the problem. All of these have cons and pros – which one sed gay member of the friend circle opts for is a entirely personal choice.
“Except this isn’t an interest” – though online, I can tell you from experience that I’ve had every reaction, including instant death threats from simply stating I’m a brony. While being gay is much more then an interest, I used the example because it somewhat parallels what sort of reactions one can get (though in the case of being a brony, this is mostly limited to online interactions, where as being lgbt would have the possibility of such reactions in real life as well as online) and hence the possible hesitation, fear even, for merely announcing that facet of your personality.
b) “arguments about a queer individual not “fitting into the company culture” ” – This reminds me, sort of, how in my country (Romania), women seem to have a lot of advantages job-wise over men, at least in certain job areas. There are MANY positions that will openly advertise that they only seek women – restaurants for example. The obvious reasoning is that women tend to get more customers in the restaurant, hence a marketing advantage. This reasoning applies to most positions that have to do with interacting with people – women are preferred to men or outright the only acceptable gender. That sed, there is a balance of sorts – you won’t find many construction companies that employ women workers, because typically men are expected to be stronger, hence more fitting for the job. I normally don’t get upset over these things as there are -somewhat- cold, rational reasons behind them, but they still exclude a segment of the population based on standardized expectations that don’t apply to everyone (how many more customers would someone looking like a young Brad Pitt get in a restaurant if he got hired, for example). It is a sad state of affairs that needs solutions that take into account human uniqueness, though that is hard to do when such things would cost time and money – the reason why these standard approaches exist in the first place.
c) “I straight up had close family just straight up glare and dismiss the end of an 8.5 year long relationship” – I’m very sorry to hear that, you have my sympathies. Loosing any relationship that you cared for is terrible, not to mention such a long lasting one. /hug
At least the memories will never pass – hopefully the good ones at any rate.
“Because they have the privilege to not think about it.” – As sad as it is uplifting, there will always be someone that shared a pain you had. It’s one of the things that humanity has going for it – we may feel like we’re alone, but there ARE those out there that will understand us, the ones that, like us, do not have the privilege to not care. Never alone, even if far apart.
d) “My trans ass… not so much.” Really hard not to make a flirtatious comment that implies I’d happily protect your trans ass. But here I am, resisting my primal urges. Go me. 😛 (Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood, if you ever read this.)
On a more serious note, I could say I felt the same way when I was a fat shy, introverted kid inside school (perhaps not under threat of being murdered, but certainly of beatings – and it’s easy to get from one to the other by mistake). That sed, no one should feel that way, and it is a very very depressing reality – but there it is, existing in spite of how by all that is righteous, it should not exist. Again, as a matter of survival, know what you face and acquire the tools you need to face those threats. In my case it was learning how to fight, and becoming more sociable.
In your case – well, much the same I’d say, minus sociable and plus the added protection of some self-defense device like a stunner/zapper/electric thingy.
Not fun, I know, but such things do force us to become stronger individuals, if nothing else.
e) “I’m just going to straight up waltz right past this without stopping because wow, just wow.” – Mkay’.
f) Public opinion is a fickle thing. It can be influenced one way or another. There are ways. Douchebags won’t likely care either way, but there are plenty of folks that aren’t like that and just assume the most popular stance – those you can turn around.
That sed, I get your point (I think) – even if you won’t stop the douchebag in question, hopefully by exposing his assholery you’re in some small way dissuading further attacks against more vulnerable targets. Noble, if perhaps inefficient.
“But that doesn’t mean those are comforting behaivors for those drowning in racism, sexism, or homophobia.” – That depends on the interpretation, doesn’t it? As noted by others, it can, in fact, be exactly what is needed.
My point wasn’t how comforting it is though – it’s that it lacks malice and that’s enough. That is the cornerstone of polite conversation. It is all that is owed, everything else is gravy.
How it impacts the individual in question is largely on him, since it is shaped by how his life has molded him and all that he feels and thinks.
“You can’t please everyone.”, as the saying goes. You can however, not be an asshole – and I don’t think Walky acted as such here.
A fine talk we had, Cerberus. I wish thee’ only the best.
*polite bow*
Which with Ethan, Ethan is very aware of how being gay has affected his life. The impact it had on how his parents treated him. The way it burnt out his best friend in the world and left him somewhat alone in the beginning of the year. All the risks that come with being out as oneself.
So someone going “whatever, gayness, pfft” to him is not going to seem comforting but dismissive of his struggles and pain. He doesn’t need to hear that people don’t care. He needs to hear that people still love and respect him.
Wait, I may be horribly misremembering, but wasn’t what Ethan was afraid of ‘people treating him differently’ and ‘everything being about his
sexuality’ – hence why he’s trying to bury it.
Because he fears it will be everything others will see in him. He’s not afraid everyone will abandon him as much as he’s afraid that’s all they’ll see him as – because he has a personality, interests (Transformers!), etc that he wants to be judged by, not his sexual urges.
Walky being “whatever, gayness, pfft” is exactly what he’d want to hear – that it doesn’t matter that he’s gay to his friends, that they’ll treat him the same as they did before.
This is why he liked the idea of Joyce ‘fixing’ him – because she offered him the normality he craves but he -thinks- he can’t have due to his orientation. Walky is proving to him that he can very much have normality.
Sure, he also wants to be known as more than the gay guy, every queer person wants to be known as more than the queer person, but there are genuine social factors that have been colliding on him whether or not he wanted them to and whether or not he even wanted to be gay in the first place.
Oh, right. The family issues thing. Yeah, that’ll be ugly later on.
Regarding the others – it’s mostly an issue of him ignoring reality and stumbling due to lack of experience. Or not knowing how to find what he’s looking for, though there are ways (not to mention the question of weather or not he knows what he really needs – something that at his age is likely to be a ‘nope’).
Still, his reaction shows that while frustrating, it is good for him to hear his friends won’t treat him any differently with them knowing he’s gay.
Of course, this being Walky, even Ethan doesn’t expect tact.
Apathy from someone that has no business caring about your sentimental or love-life seems like quite the adequate and sane line of thought to me.
Walky isn’t Ethan’s best friend from what I know – I don’t even recall them having a heart-to-nachos moment together. So why would Walky care about who Ethan wants to bang? It’s really none of his business.
This assumption that because you’re somehow different (gay/trans/other/anything else that’s a social taboo in hillbilly country) everyone -should- care is very much narcissistic in nature. CLOSE friends should, the kind you discuss your day with – but that’s not the case here; I don’t recall Walky being quite that close to Ethan.
So yes, apathy is not support – because Walky owes no such thing to Ethan. What he does owe him is basic human acceptance, and he’s very much given such.
Allow me to reiterate: just because you’re gay/otherwise doesn’t mean everyone owes you support – only your close family and good friends do, everyone else just has to treat you like a normal person.
If someone’s being supportive that’s not your close friend, then that person is being -kind- to you. That’s not something that is required in normal social interactions, but should be appreciated. Acting as if people that are neutral towards you are being mean to you is rude – in fact you’re the one that’s being mean to them in that scenario.
PS: Walky’s attitude is showing Ethan that him being gay isn’t a big deal for most others of his age – this is exactly what Ethan needs to realize in order to get over his fears. He may be overly-smug, but he’s Walky – the comic relief – of course he’s being smug here (not to mention recent issues Walky’s been having that are making him be even more smug then usual).
Based solely on the fact that I’m bisexual (not straight so different) I don’t expect or believe I’m due support from anyone.
I only “expect” basic respect as I am a person.
I should have been more clear both times I posted about my feelings. My sexuality is something I have no control over. I can however choose my words and control most of my mannerisms. While I was closeted I took great care on where my eyes lingered, how I made my gestures, what arguments I made about popular culture. I did this to try and control what people thought of me and to work through my aniexty about being not straight. I could control the closet door for a while, but the more time I spent there the more suffocated I felt.
I personally would have taken a big hit to my confidence if the first thing a person told me after I came out to them was “I know” and left it there. In part because I would then begin obsessing over what I had been doing wrong/ failing to cover up, along with who else already knew. I see this particular reaction as invalidating my experience and time in the closet because it was obvious to everyone.
Once again this is only how I feel and read these interactions. As others have stated they didn’t feel the same way, and felt relieved at the response. I’m sorry for making an over simplistic blanket statement.
“What he does owe him is basic human acceptance, and he’s very much given such.” To be fair, I should have sed ‘basic respect’, but in this case… well, Walky’s the local Jester Of The Play.
He is held by different social norms then the rest. Also he’s quite oblivious and inexperienced. I’d say that’s the best reaction Ethan could get here – and for his particular situation (because this is a comic = comedy), it did him a lot of good. Irl things would be different, no doubt, but if this was real we’d have to retcon most of the comic. We can only take aspects of it seriously, because others are intentionally not true to life.
I’d wager -tone- would play a huge part in how it would affect you, correct? Because such things are difficult or impossible to tell via the written word. Also… Ethan did a fairly poor job ‘covering’ on many occasions. I’m guessing someone irl, such as yourself, would be far more adept. What I’m trying to say is that the situation is fictional.
Real-life variations tend to be either quite obviously benevolent (with good reasons such as seeing you kiss another male, or your porn collection) or simple bullshit people say to not seem blind-sighted by the situation. I’d mention that it’s quite impossible for someone of Walky’s familiarity with Ethan to judge these things in real life.
So really, the two irl options would be stranger bullshitting you (malicious asshole or insipid peon), or perhaps, someone very close that picked up on small hints over a large time-frame (or a big hint over a small time-frame) – and with the second option I’d assume you’d have the opportunity to ask how he/she found out, and hopefully being a close friend you’d also get other apt friend-reactions, like an offer of support if appropriate.
Mate, over-simplistic blanket statements are the juices that spur debates and passion! Don’t worry too much about it – I, for one, had fun debating here, even if things got heated at times. ^_^
Side note: It would be a more interesting world for me if more people such as yourself wouldn’t have to take care how long their eyes lingered. Perhaps I’d finally have confirmation about certain things about myself. *wink wink nudge nudge* … … I’m implying I might have been seduced by a man by now. Pitty it didn’t happen yet. ;P
When I was coming out, tone would not have mattered. My anxiety was very high at the time and a very good portion of that was rooted in people thinking I was straight.
In the end everyone is different and I can only speak to my experience.
I mean, some of us clearly like being told “I know”, as long as it’s in the right tone. For others of us it is the fucking worst.
I feel like there’s undoubtedly a middle ground. A way to indicate that nothing has changed between you (which seems to be what the people in favor of “I know” like most about it) WITHOUT the dismissive aspect that the rest of us hate.
Which Ethan is in dire need of, because his parents are total cocks, his best friend abandoned him, his entire extended family and school community sends him messages about how he’s an abomination, and he’s painfully aware of how queer sexuality is treated by society at large.
Yup, which ironically is why Joyce has been great for him because she’s the only one who hasn’t viewed him as being lesser or harder to deal with for being gay. She’s the one telling him he deserves love and the things she wants. And she’s the one who encouraged him to come tonight to the Questioning meeting.
Quelle Ironic that the one who wanted to “fix him” initially turns out to be his biggest ally.
But there is a huge difference between treating it casually and what Walky is doing now. Ethan needs to understand that his sexuality is perfectly acceptable and it shouldn’t burden him, that he doesn’t need to feel guilty for “disappointing” his parents and for how things turned out with Amber.
“Your struggles with your sexuality are pointless and I don’t care” is absolutely not what Ethan needs.
“Your struggles with your sexuality are pointless and I don’t care” – Objection, misrepresentation, that is not what the witness sed!
I quote: “Yeah, I know.” Yes, he’s being flippant, but that doesn’t mean he’s saying his struggles do not matter – you’re putting words in his mouth that simply are not there. He just sed that he knows and is inferring that him being gay isn’t a big deal to him.
What Ethan thinks of this is entirely Ethan’s business, Walky shouldn’t be expected to cater to Ethan’s insecurities – something he may not even be aware of existing (remember, it’s Walky).
Walky isn’t Ethan’s close friend – they are simply acquaintances at this point. It’s not for him to meddle in Ethan’s business further then ‘Yeah, I know. Good pizza.’.
Yeah, in my case I was relieved to hear “I know” when I heard people say it. (Though most people’s reaction to me coming out has been along the lines of “Oh, I had no idea!) To me it was reassuring that it wouldn’t really change how the other person treated me, and that those people were cool with it.
Of course this is all highly variable based on individual experience, and the general public opinion towards non heterosexuality in the area where the closeted person is. My experience is definitely not representative on how other closeted people might feel. I understand why someone might panic at such a reaction, especially if they’ve came out to others and got a negative reaction before. (Such as Ethan here)
Though no matter what, Walky is being a smug jerk here, with his “I already knew because I’m a genius! Other people needed it spelled out for them but I’m just so smart!”
On the other hand, it’s pretty clear he’s still enmeshed in the idea that things that come easy to you make you smart and things that don’t are existential crises about your whole identity.
So, he may be viewing gaydar coming easy to him as a means of cleansing his palate of the whole studying thing and his bad quiz.
Doesn’t make it any less of a douche move, but that might be one of the reasons why he’s taking so many pains to crow about it here.
Well. That was quite the debate I sparked, huh. But I get it now. I always saw the “I know” reaction as “I[‘ve] know[n for a while and I haven’t been treating you differently because I see no reason to because I care about you]”, but then I’ve never been faced with the “I know, I don’t care, stop talking about it” shit. So, basically, it’s all in the delivery (kind smile and soft tone vs frowny face and negative tone) and what you say afterwards (“I love and support you” vs “shut up about it” or even “and that’s why I’ve decided you to send you to summer camp, you’ll see, it’ll be fun, and they’ll turn you back to normal”).
I think it’s way more likely that he’s just being the casually “supportive” straight dude who just totes doesn’t care about your sexuality so please don’t ever acknowledge it.
I really don’t think he’s that bad. And crashing open meetings for free food is such a long-standing college tradition I don’t even know why it’s on the list.
Ethan isn’t really questioning though. He’s gay. He just has no idea how to come out about it. Walky is trying to tell him that a lot of people already know and it isn’t anything special. Walky knows, Dorothy knows, neither of them made it into a big thing. Ethan is mad his dramatic journey of self discovery is being met with mostly indifference from people who already knew. Joyce is freaking out about everyone else knowing and not caring about what is supposed to be a deep dark secret (and probably wondering if they can see her ‘questioning’ as transparently)
She thinks that Dorothy won’t be her friend anymore the moment Dorothy figures out what Joyce had been trying to do with Ethan. (That’s obviously not what happened when Dorothy did figure it out, but Joyce’s worries were based off of what Sarah told her, which is based off of Sarah’s own experiences).
Dorothy herself has already figured out that Joyce dumped Ethan because she realized what she was doing was wrong. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/noodle/
But when she made that realization, she decided to not bring up her concerns with the relationship to Joyce, because the relationship was over and Joyce learned from it. So Joyce didn’t know that Dorothy already knew until now.
Quite the opposite, actually, Spencer. Walky is so blasé about this that it’s having a very positive effect on Ethan – more specifically, it’s showing him it’s NOT a big deal, or at least it doesn’t have to be. Most of his generation won’t really mind him being gay – except the obvious bigots and assholes, but those always find something to despise you for.
Not to mention he’s the only one here that’s willing to be straight (pun intended) with Ethan about how things stand. Walky being Walky is EXACTLY what Ethan needs right now.
This is absolutely correct. The kind of attitude Walky has here is exactly what I most wanted to find when I started coming out to my friends. I was terrified people would make a big deal out of it, I didn’t want to go through that kind of drama. I think Walky is doing the perfect thing here, Ethan seriously needs this reality check.
If Walky cared enough about Ethan to say “I already know. It’s cool, though” then I wouldn’t be saying anything, because that would be fine. Instead, he’s talking about how he and other people have sussed him out. That isn’t okay.
Ethan does not need a reality check. He does not need to worry that he’s being too open about his sexuality because, oh shit, Walky figured it out so who else did?
But he -did- need a reality check. He was ignorant of the general situation and worrying himself silly about something that wasn’t an issue for his friends.
Also, notice that Ethan already reacted and it’s basically positive. Via the page above, we can deduce that Walky just did Ethan a big favor.
As a matter of fact, being ignorant of reality, no matter how that makes you feel is never a good thing. Knowing where you stand is -always- helpful (unless you’re Danny, then even that might not help).
Was Walky gentle? No. He’s Walky – don’t have unrealistic expectations of the comic relief with a big ego.
Walky above all the others is the most unrealistic person – because he’s the quintessential comic relief; among all the cast, he’s the one that I don’t expect to act like a real person half the time. And that’s a good thing. This isn’t a drama, it’s a webcomic that occasionally has silliness in it – often via Walky. This is why Walky is allowed to be Walky,he’s the Jester of the play – and everyone knows not to take him -too- seriously most of the time, but it also allows him to say things other’s couldn’t or shouldn’t.
Would it have been better for Ethan if he found out from someone gently telling him that they accept him for what he is? Eh, in reality yes, but this is a webcomic and it’s funnier this way.
When Walky tells Ethan about how he figured it out, and who else knows, it’s because those are answers to direct questions from Ethan. His phrasing is deeply obnoxious, but Ethan did ask.
au contraire x2, veghetta. i respect all of u who prefer this unaffected attitude & ‘oh i already know’ reactions, but that’s not a universal experience. bein gay often Is a Big Deal, & i doubt any lgb or t person has ever needed a lil str8 dude to tell them It Doesn’t Have To Be, if only they could have some Perspective.
it’s also not Just The Bigots who will Have A Problem w someone’s sexuality. and no, they wouldn’t always Find A Reason to despise everyone. shockingly, str8 ppl do not face homophobic bigotry. this is bc the thing that makes bigots bigots is that they specifically despise the groups they r bigoted against. weird, right?
anyway, whether walky bein walky is Exactly What Poor Naive Gay Ethan needs right now or not, this is a discussion about fictional characters & highly personal experiences, and therefore there is no one Right Answer. so, u can kindly drop the condescending tone
Why is a ‘lil st8 dude’ obligated to have any reaction whatsoever to any lgb or t person? Walky isn’t shocked, or surprised, and doesn’t really seem to care at all. Dude was just there for some free pizza and Ethan ran into him and decided to have a moment. They’re acquaintances, at best. When Walky doesn’t react the way Ethan expects he starts asking additional questions, further intruding on Walky’s pizza time.
Walky just wants some pizza, why does Ethan feel he needs to know about his sexual preferences? And why does Ethan feel entitled to grill him about who else knows? Let the man eat his pizza.
He’s asking, not grilling Walky if Amber outted him; because is she has that’s a major breach of trust, and is taking the control over his identity from him. If she had inadvertently outted him to more than just Dina she needs to be made aware of it (this isn’t the case as we know).
Walky doesn’t realize it but he’s telling Ethan that the only stupid people cannot see through his closet, and thats not helpful in any way.
But why should Ethan expect *anything* from Walky? Helpful or not? Walky is just there for the pizza. He doesn’t owe Ethan attention, a helpful reaction, or anything at all really. Why does everyone seem to think Walky was supposed to have a supportive and caring reaction? He doesn’t really care and just wants to eat his pizza.
But… by this point only Danny doesn’t see through Ethan’s closet. So indeed, only stupid people.
It’s a matter of Ethan being a protagonist in a comedy – hence inept by design and played for endearment and laughs.
As the last panel shows, it is helpful – again because the situation isn’t realistic, neither is the reaction => both are created in order to resolve the issue at hand in a pleasing manner for all involved and to de-dramatize a potentially touchy issue.
This is done for Ethan’s benefit as well, in order to move his personal arch along it’s intended path while minimizing traumatic moments (at least in this case).
This would be a very different comic if such light-heated moments would be acted out in all seriousness.
@TerribleName A lot of the time when you’re in the closet it’s so you can hide things behind solid non-transparent walls. Ethan wants/(thinks?) the walls of his closet are non-transparent so the expectation is that everyone around him thinks he’s straight.
The obvious exceptions being those he has already told (His Family, Amber, Mike, Joyce). His timing around confirming his sexuality to Sarah makes it hard to determine if he’s back in the closet yet, because it’s after telling Mike he wished he had kept his mouth shut, and before telling Amber that’s he wants to be in control of his identity.
Your personal reaction isn’t really Walky’s or similar people’s business, now is it? What they need to be concerned with is weather or not they are being a decent human being. Personal reactions are just that – personal. They vary wildly. No one should be held host age to how you or I feel about a certain topic. The only thing that matters is that they’re being decent with you (ie: not malicious). How you interpret the finer nuances is a separate matter, one that often they have no business with.
I didn’t say that assholes will find ways to make you face homophobic bigotry, but there’s plenty other things they can and will do if they don’t like the look of your face. Have you tried being fat while in school, for example? Expect beatings on a regular basis in certain schools. Assholes will be assholes to you if they feel like it. Yes, they have more ammo and usually more will to do it towards gay/trans/other people but my point stands – if they dislike you, they’ll find a way to bully/harass/etc you if it’s in their nature.
There’s also the fact that these days you’re likely to find people that will stand up for/with you – at least that’s the case in many European countries and swaths of the US.
Clearly the Right Answer in this case is whatever the comic itself says about Ethan’s reaction. Word Of God and all that. The last panel pretty much says it all, unless a drastic tone shift occurs in the next comic.
I wasn’t being condescending. I simply disagreed with what was sed and explained why. Contrarian perhaps, but that would imply what I was opposing was the most popular opinion, which isn’t something I can or want to gauge here.
‘You are a nobody, no one cares what you do. If you died tomorrow, most of your classmates wouldn’t notice.’
This is another true thing he could have said that could technically be daid non maliciously. It remains a cruel thing to say, unacceptable by most, and my standards. Weither it’s insensitive or malicious doesn’t matter, it is an asshole thing to say. And miraculously having a positive outcome doesn’t change that.
This is a comic that has addressed rape and PTSD. It goes for realism most of the time, especially regarding emotional reactions. Walky has been called out many times for his behavior, even by Dorothy. He is 18, and he is being a smug prick. Did you want to argue this?
“If you died tomorrow, most of your classmates wouldn’t notice” – Awfully un-human of them, and not something that’s true to life. I have had classmates that died and I’ve heard about it from others in my former class, years and years later, after we lost touch.
Most humans would care, despite what you’re implying. Taking that into account, I’d say your example here is untrue and malicious.
“Weither it’s insensitive or malicious doesn’t matter”- I fundamentally disagree. It’s precisely what matters most, and exactly what makes an asshole, an asshole; as opposed to a well-meaning but misguided person or a completely neutral person.
Yes, the comic has a serious bent. It also has a comical one. They intertwine as is appropriate, hence what we have here. This isn’t 100% serious, nor is it 100% comical – it is a mix of the two. And yes, that does excuse Walky to a great extent here.
Plus, as I stated before in other comments – they’re not friends and in no way is Walky being malicious here.
Dorothy is Walky’s foil. I’d expect nothing less of her. I also never sed he’s immune to criticism – simply that he’s necessarily the way he is to give a more comedic tone when he’s around. He may grow as a person, but he will always be Walky, as Mike will always be Milke, fundamentally (at least that’s my best guess as to the future).
Yes, I would argue against him being a smug prick.
He’s only being smug here, not a prick.
At this point ur straight up at the stage of homophobia & transphobia denialism. Guess what, u can be a fat kid in school, & also gay. & also a girl. & also trans. & also of color. And i know this is shocking, but, being all a these things, u will weirdly face More bullying & violence & harassment than, say, all the other fat cishet white kids. Like, significantly more. Life alteringly more.
Also, I don’t give two shits about Word Of God. That’s the entire point of being critical of media u consume. This ain’t my god, and I’m not obligated to take him at his word
“At this point ur straight up at the stage of homophobia & transphobia denialism.” – No, I’m not. I’m stating there are parallels to other forms of discrimination and that someone that has violent tendencies and doesn’t like you, will FIND reasons to hurt you regardless of what you do or are. I’m stating that for some people, issues such as gender or looks are simply excuses they want in order to act out their anger issues onto people.
There are certainly also the kind of people that will be triggered by say, transfobia more then other things, but from what I’ve seen in my life I can state that most violent bullies search for reasons to bully you – anything to get their jollies. It’s far fewer people that have a deep hatered for LGBT’s and far more that are simply full of hatered and bile, looking for excuses to vent their violence onto others.
In short, assholes will be assholes to anyone they feel like/anyone they don’t fear. You’re not their only target. You have allies. You do have laws specifically protecting you, and organizations that will help. It’s not all bleak (it’s not all sunny either, but do I really need to state the obvious?).
“u will weirdly face More bullying & violence & harassment than, say, all the other fat cishet white kids” – So now you’re practicing what you where accusing me off previously – dismissing the severity of trials faced by one group in order to extoll the tribulations of another one.
See, this really depends on the school in question, not to mention the country/society you’re in. And on the teachers. You should take into account that being “a fat kid in school, & also gay. & also a girl. & also trans. & also of color” would probably sway teachers to your defense in a much more serious manner then if you where a white fat kid.
You should also consider that where I’m from I have almost never seen a girl being bullied – and there was a particularly corpulent one in my class. Marginalized yes, but never assaulted. Since she was a girl, no one openly bullied her – because in the society at the time, at least in my area, that would have been a very serious offense.
Much more so then bullying a fat male child – no one cared if you did that; it was just considered ‘horseplay’.
Perhaps be more careful when dismissing the hardships others have been through, lest your own be taken as lightly.
I never sed LGBT’s had it easy – I stated quite the opposite; simply that they have means to defend themselves with, and
should do so – also that they’ll pull through, that… to use a tired but well-meaning phrase “it gets better”.
“Like, significantly more.” isn’t as likely as you’d think; though I’m not saying there aren’t those worse off then myself, but that’s a given for anyone – there’s always someone wor
se off then yourself. What’s most important (at least as far as my opinion is concerned) is that we grow as stronger and better human beings from these negative experiences.
Word of God means the author’s word is always true regarding his own work. You -are- obligated to take him at his word, since it’s his word you’re reading; the entire reality here is his ‘word’.
He may not be your god, but for all intents and purposes it is the character’s omnipotent ‘god’ – as a matter of fact, he’s also the driving force behind their actions (though you’ll eventually have characters develop ‘minds of their own’ in certain stories – here too).
Yes, criticism is valid and important but what you can’t, reasonably state, is that ‘reaction/feeling x is wrong, it should be reaction/feeling y this character should be feeling’ – because the author knows his characters better then anyone, since he’s the one crating them.
Meaning that if he says someone feels a certain way, it is so (why is a whole separate matter).
In this case, preliminary WoG says it did Ethan good – so that will color my reaction to it.
Of course, there’s a big debate over such matters at times – see George Lucas and his creations, or others before him. But I, for one, accept it as gospel most of the time (funny considering I’m a agnostic atheist irl).
at this point the reply button just doesn’t appear next to ur name… and i take this as a sign from god to engage u no further. which is fortunate tbh bc i literally have not and do not want to read ur huge ass reply at all
That’s a new standard of measurement: “scores free gay pizza smart.” Unfortunately, to attain this level you apparently have to act like a total douchebag…
This is only a guess but I think it’s a few things:
1) Ethan is freaking out and shouting about his sexuality; it’s embarrassing to be around him in this mood (much as she found it embarrassing to be around Becky when she was in a similar mood);
2) I think that she’s upset with herself with the realisation that she effectively broke Ethan’s confidence with her poorly-disguised plea to Dorothy for help;
Now, obviously there’s significant difference between Walky being only a casual acquaintance to Ethan and Danny and Dorothy being longtime friends and having a relationship, but how each deals with their recipient is significant. When Dorothy goes “And?” she’s not playing off Danny’s fears and worries as if they aren’t a big deal (because to suggest otherwise, while I understand why someone would, invalidates the emotion of the one trying to come out to you) but instead trying to prompt him for more info so she can help him out. She clearly understands that Danny is struggling giving her this information so she tries to normalize his behaviour; “You can like boys and girls”, and in the next strips she makes an effort to get Danny to seek someone else out since she feels she doesn’t know enough to fully help Danny out.
I know Walky isn’t as emotive and informed about LGBT issues as Dorothy probably is, but some base empathy would not kill him.
[…]
Walky:
Gay, or too respectful?
He never touches Joyce.
Someone else:
Though between her past and gender
How’d we know which one’s the cause?
Walky: (music stops, spoken a bit awkwardly) right…
Loading ...
because it takes REAL smarts to find and acquire free pizza at every turn
Apparently only the most evolved people can locate free food.
It’s like a survival mechanism–three meals a day at college was bullshit =p [sure, the cafeteria was “unlimited” but who can eat “all you can eat” three times a day and still be able to go places]
I envy anyone who had a meal plan at college. I subsided on ramen, pb&j, and easy mac 🙁
My freshman year, I got the cheapest meal plan, which would only last the semester if I ate in the cafeteria only once or twice a day. I didn’t do that, and shortly after midterms I realized I had eaten all my allotted meals. I was starting to panic, when I discovered just how incompetent the cafeteria clerks were. You paid for your meal by swiping a card through a scanner, and most of the time the worker did it mindlessly, not bothering to look at the computer screen to see if you had any more points on your card (especially during busy peak hours). I never bought another meal plan and I ate for free the rest of my time in college, only being turned away maybe a dozen times in 3 and a half years.
A fair number of students thought they were able to do that at our campus, too…except it turns out the swipes weren’t “blank,” they were acting as a charge card once the points ran out, and the students who thought they were getting free meals got a huge bill at the end of the semester that needed to be paid before they could get their degree (graduates) or register for the next semester.
I’m hijacking this comment chain to point out the godlike alt-text pun
seriously, it made me choke on my meal. thankfully it was chicken, not sausage…
Love to know how Type I diabetics get by in that sort of situation.
That’s how evolution works. The students who are able to find free food and thus survive and reproduce, passing on the genes responsible for their food-locating prowess, while the others starve to death or are hunted and eaten by roving varsity teams.
At least, that was my college experience.
“There is no such thing as a free lunch” was troglodyte credo all along.
It honestly is. I wish I could get away with it.
It’s not as hard as you think if you know the right functions. The key is sticking to your age group so it’s believable when you pretend to care about what they’re doing. Don’t try weddings they rarely serve pizza and it’s difficult if you don’t look like either family. Colleges are great if you know when semsters start and end they’re always throwing some party somewhere at those times and pizza’s the obvious go to. Just keep searching. You’d be surprised how much free food falls when you’re willing to sit for an hour or two.
If you are near a decent sized University, look for any Symposiums they may be hosting. Pretty sure that’s Greek for “Free Food.” Last semester I had prime rib twice in two weeks, and free wine another two times. Another bit to look for is anything showing grad student research. They are older than the usual college population, sometimes have a stipend for aiding in research, and occasionally have some sort of after party if you fit in with them.
Don’t forget gallery receptions! If your university has an arts program odds are good that they also have a gallery with student shows on a regular basis. Mine did, and we had closing receptions every couple weeks with wine and snacks. It’s not full meals but if you just need something to tide you over until the next morning then it’s worth a visit. Plus, yanno, you get to see some neat artwork.
wow, folks, I just remembered this book I should recommend
Dude, I can hook you up, wanna hear about some time shares? Doesn’t matter, just show up, you’ll get free food, you want pizza specifically, ok and I can hook you up exclusively with those gigs. I can’t make it happen for you everyday – unless you want to travel all over the country – But we’re talking at least once a month if you’ve got some savings and investments to demonstrate you’re a potential buyer.
If you live in a city with a major airport hub I have to ask, how do you feel about pretending to work for random national sales companies during their training seminars?
He can smell pizza from across campus and he can hear pudding. He’s a truly evolved individual.
So how transparent is his closet?
It took Sarah like five seconds to figure it out.
Black people are just very intuitive. Case in point.
Sal hasn’t caught on though, and I don’t think Jacob has either. So it’s 50-50!
Sal wouldn’t care enough to notice either way.
I thought Sal liked tall men?
so then maybe she did notice and didn’t think it was worth mentioning
We may be overestimating Sal’s perceptive abilities, considering she couldn’t pick up on the similar cues from her closest friend.
Dina’s triceratop deflects gaydar.
I don’t think Jason would care.
And if he did he’d probably be flattered.
Jacob may suspect, but feel that it’s none of his business unless Ethan brings it up.
^ This. My gaydar works fine, and I identified plenty of gay friends (and family members) before they came out. My husband was floored that I knew about his sister before anyone else in the family. And when I get the inevitable, “Why didn’t you say anything?” I always respond with, “It’s not my place to say anything. Whether or not anyone says anything about their sexuality is entirely up to that person alone.”
Not sure why that’s such a hard concept for people to wrap their head around.
It’s pretty much made out of glass.
Wonder woman was seen flying it around. It’s that see through.
aren’t closets imbedded into walls? that’d be more of an invisible wardrobe, yeah? does sort of raise the question of what all being “in the wardrobe” would entail…
Literally living a double life; one in the real world, one in
NarniaQueerland.except if need be you can maybe get somebody to help you carry the wardrobe around from place to place what the HELL am I even talking about now
With the exception of Joyce and maybe Jacob, everybody else’s gaydar seems to be working well.
And Danny. Don’t forget Danny.
It’s easy to forget Danny when he’s not featured.
Danny is excusable since his own sexual identity is confused. Hard to read signals from someone when you can’t even spot them yourself.
Danny strikes me as quite oblivious. He wouldn’t have noticed even without his confusion about his own sexuality.
There’s not even a closet he’s just closing his eyes and assuming if he can’t see it nobody else can.
That’s “Ravenous Bugblatter Beast” intelligent.
Fucking Finally.
Ayyyyyy-men.
I think you missed a G, there
Wouldn’t have said it better.
Paaaaaaaaaaaants.
*plays the George Michael/Elton John duet version of “Don’t Let The Sun Go Down On Me” on the Muzak*
Mmm… gay pizza.
is it weird that that actually does sound more appetizing to me than just pizza
NOW I WANT PIZZA SO BAD BUT MY BROTHER’S UPSTAIRS HAVING A PARTY WHAT HAVE YOU DONE
YOU MUST STEAL ALL THE PIZZA!
nuhhhhh… all his bros and bros’ girlfriends are up there
ill just have basement almonds instead
be brave my young padawan
Escape through a basement window! It’s your only shot!
does he have pizza at his party?
we always have pizza in the house. I actually have three down here with me, but they’re all frozen and about five years out of date
Eh, frozen things don’t expire. ‘S all good.
Tell that to the vegetable drawer.
Such horrors I saw there…
It’s extra-hot pizza that loves other pizzas. What’s not to love
It’s a meat lovers pizza. Apostrophe intentionally omitted.
Only if you have a problem with sausage and mushroom.
This strip has me trying to figure out what combination of pizza toppings could form a rainbow without using food colorant~ You can get red, green and yellow with bell peppers (or tomatoes, ananas if that’s your thing, and some vegetable or other), orange with certain types of pesto… but beyond that IDK..
Eggplant pizza is tasty, for purple!
Blue cheese?
Okay, have you ever actually seen blue cheese that was blue? It’s usually just white like other cheese, with maybe some blue specks or veins in it. If your cheese is actually blue, you should probably throw it out…
Blueberries is really the only option for blue.
It may as well be a dessert pizza pie then.
olives!
You’d have to add the blueberries after it was cooked though. Cooked blueberries turn red. Also – I love blueberries, but I’m pretty sure they would be terrible on pizza.
Blue carrots! Blue potatoes! Purple cauliflower. Many vegetables come in a variety of colors.
You can actually cover all the colors but blue and indigo just with bell peppers fairly easily. You’d most likely have to special order the purple peppers or grow them yourself however as they are rare at best in supermarkets.
Blue and indigo are probably the biggest sticking point in general, since most natural blue pigments (including indigo) found in foods don’t hold up well when cooked nor in the presence of acids, and most foods are acidic. A blue cheese, such as a gorgonzola, is most likely the best option for visible blue, but quite a number of people don’t enjoy them on a taste level.
I’d personally roll with thin tomato slices, julienned orange bell pepper, thin sliced summer squash, rough chopped fresh spinach or basil, gorgonzola and thin sliced eggplant.
Purple basil seems like a good choice, but I’m not sure about blue except for blue potatoes (and even they’re kind of purple).
Red would be mergez slices, hmm.
FREE gay pizza …
… because gay pizza wants to be free! SWEET CHEEZY FREEDOM!!
Is Walky’s eyes or eyes?
So… is Ethan gay?
(I’m sorry! It was too perfect an opportunity!)
So… Are Walky’s pants on backwards?
yes
DRAMA
Maybe since Ruth’s not in this storyline, Walky is taking over the role of Major Jerk?
Or he’s been hanging around Mike too much.
Or he just hates Joyce.
more like he just likes messing with her.
He’s not that much of a jerk. Just bragging cuz he’s a genius and eating free Pizza.
Free GAY pizza
Kris Krossin it tonight Walky?
You are officially old now if you remember Kross Dressing. I don’t mind admitting I’m old.
I guess it’s officially canon that the exploding flaming splinters of Becky’s nuclear closet explosion has cast a shadow on any other recent coming outs. 😉
All other coming-outs are eclipsed by the bright sun of Becky’s closet detonation.
Pants on backwards because… easy access?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I guess he came prepared to uh pay any prize for that pizza-
Easier to make friends that way.
No, because he had to get out of Dorothy’s room in a hurry this morning… and because he is not a genius!
“The price for our ‘free’ gay pizza is enduring the occasional friendly butt-grope!” *grope*
“Um, my pants are on backwards.”
“So?”
“So, that’s not my butt.”
“!<3!"
xD while implausible that’s hilarious
(sorry for omitted punctuation)
“Smart” may be modified by “gets free gay pizza” but not by “my pants are on backward.” Still a Walky in progress. 😛
You can also tell Adelaide is gay because balls are touching.
Blimey. Those are big.
That’s what she said.
they will probably be very dissapointed on how their strategies were for nothing XD
So Ethan WAS gay after all, who’d a figure….
heeheehee, ethan looks like Sully from monsters inc when he’s angry
Oh my gods, he does! X’D
Well, Walky if they are you better hope nobody gets any ideas…
I don’t want to jump to any conclusions, but I think Ethan might be gay.
EGADS! (ﾉﾟ0ﾟ)ﾉ~
I like how everyone has flung up their arms in the last panel except for Dina. I also like that Walky has a plate to eat off of, but he’s holding the pizza a foot away from it and gesturing around to fling crumbs and smear grease everywhere.
For real, he’s treating it like some sort of free, straight pizza~
Calm down Ethan, you’re a terrible actor.
I love Walky so much I can’t stand it.
It’s funny how the gay person is the last one to know that everyone knows he’s gay?
It’s a general feature of human social life. The principal is usually the last one to realise that everyone knows his secret.
Also the last one to accept that he’s gay?
It’s not really funny. Especially when you are spending most if not all of your time being super careful of your words and actions. Not to mention the obsessing over innocuous comments you’ve made and suddenly fear will out you.
This is why your first reaction to someone coming out to you should not be something to the effect of “I know”.
It will only add to the aniexty of who else knows and what have I been doing to out myself.
I speak from my experience of being a closeted bisexual.
thumbs up
it’s esp galling when the person is straight and acts as if they don’t understand what the big deal is. ofc it’s no big deal for u, asshole
So someone trying to be supportive is an asshole for not understanding something?
Re-reading this I realized I missed a word in my final sentence.
I am a formerly closeted bisexual. I’ve been out for almost a year now.
But you had the experience of being a closeted bisexual; so the sentence was correct, if possibly a bit misleading.
Personally I loved being told they already knew. It meant nothing would change, not the way they treated me, not the way I needed to act, nothing.
People are different and have different needs. to some apathy is the cruelest thing they can receive when they come out, to others it’s the greatest relief.
Hell, just look at Ethan and Becky, Becky LOVES nobody giving a shit, it makes this place safe and feeing for her. For Ethan hes been angsting about it so much he NEEDS it to be a big deal because he’s built it up so much. Walky’s reacted the same way to both of them, indifferent, and received vastly different reactions.
Finally! I hope this means he can finally be out to all his friends. I also hope he doesn’t think he needs to say anything because he’ll assume all of his friends have figured it out. *cough cough* Danny *cough*
If someone would be so kind as to link me the strip where Dorothy and Walky talk about this, I would be super grateful. thanks!
found it!
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/unpretty/
🙂 😉 🙂
here you go :
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/exclusivity/
I found it by searching for strips with walky + dorothy (http://www.dumbingofage.com/tag/dorothy+walky/page/4/). you know props to this site for 1) having good tags for all of the strips and 2) having a search-by-tag function that works with multiple tags.
Yeah, the tagging system is awesome, it’s really helpful for finding old strips!
CTS, you didn’t need to do that; Kathleen asked someone for the link
Why do people keep asking me for things!
Because YOU’RE ALWAYS THERE.
Get out, shoo!
Man, how do you even wear jeans backwards without noticing? That is some genius skill right there.
Pajama jeans, that’s how.
Good call. ^_^
It’s easy when you don’t wash them/use other pants/take them off.
Doing any of those would be like owning 2 pairs of shoes!
Probably easier with a butt as flat as Walky’s. Still impressive and a little horrifying.
David E. Walkerton: Suuuuuuuper Geeeeenius
THANKS, now I have that stuck in my head.
Can totally see him laughing that smug laugh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl1uFDiDoQc
And remember, mud spelled backwards is Dum
Yay, finally!
Joyce has trained her eyebrows to stay on, but looks like she lost her eyeballs instead.
Love to know how Dina is processing this scenario: where’s the thought bubbles? 🙂
I think she’s just taking in data and think of Acrotholus
thanks to DoA, now I have a tab that reads “Dumbing of Age – Free gay p…”
DAMN YOU WILLIS!!!
Mine’s “Dumbing of Age – Fre…”
Free ga, here. Looks like Willis is giving my state away. DAMN YOU WILLIS!!!
Mine just says “Dumb…”
I have too many tabs open. 🙁
Your browser is heckling you? That’s harsh
Free g
It’s how a toddler says 3G
I have Free Gay Pi.
I win. >_>
Is that different from regular pi? Quick, someone. Make a math joke
I’ll recycle mine from yesterday!
Walky’s pi-sexual. His Kinsey scale is 3.14159…
I missed it yesterday. It is awesome! Thanks for recycling.
2653589793 oh my god I know too much pi
2384626433
Me, too. 🙂
*claps*
Mine’s “Dumbing of Age-Free Gay…”
Everybody knows, Ethan – and they are just cool with it. Not everybody is like your darn mother.
Yeah, some people take more than a nickle
I now wonder if you set your icon to Mike specifially for this purpose.
It certainly helps lol
and now my gravatar is gone again, uuuugggghhh
is walky being insecure about his intelligence?
Yes :3
He’ll never admit it, but methinks yes.
I hope they’re having Hotbox Pizza. Boy, do I miss Hotbox Pizza.
Anyone else go to school in Indiana and feel me on that?! Anyone? Bueller?
Um, they are aware that ‘hotbox’ is a current slang term for farting in a closed space? Might not sell a lot of pizza…
Or flooding an enclosed space with any particular vapor. I understand marijuana smoke is popular.
Poor Ethan, this is exactly what he wanted to avoid. Hopefully someone at the meeting can talk to him.
On a more positive note, I really hope this ends with Joyce finding out that Walky thinks she’s not unpretty.
No, you know, actually I think this is exactly what he wanted. To not have to hide who he is, but also to not have him being gay being the sole defining feature of his personality. Like, being thought of as “that gay guy” above all else, instead of, like, “that huge nerd” or “that really tall guy”.
He’s been keeping it quiet and just found out that everybody already knows and he couldn’t tell, because they were just treating him as “Ethan”.
It’s a shock; but it’s also exactly what he wanted. 🙂
He’s definitely not ‘that gay guy’…
Unfortunately, right now, he’s angling for ‘Mr Shouty-face’…
Calling it now, Danny is in the same room, semi-hiding in the crowd.
I leave it up to you to decide what he does/how he reacts.
i reeeeally hope he awkwardly runs into Ethan there and they have an awkward adorable flirt moment. it has to happen right?
Nah, that would be too tame.
Ethan runs into a guy at the meeting and they actually start hitting it off. Cue Danny about to step into the meeting, seeing Ethan having a good time, then scurrying away in embarrassment.
I think that a lot of readers are expecting something to happen with Danny far too soon. Right now, his relationship with Amber is his focus and any attraction he feels to a man isllikely to be rejected because he’d perceive it as betraying her.
I’m not so much expecting something flirty or romantic or anything, as much as just a really awkward exchange between the two where Danny finds out Ethan’s gay and he just blushes like crazy and blurts some senseless things~ . :3
So, basically, Danny being Danny. Gotcha’.
Willis’s First Gay Symphony, First Movement
Featuring wood instruments.
Such as the pink oboe and the skin flute.
“I am fucking gay and I just want the world to know it” tracks quite well to Beethoven’s ninth, btw
This is the minor key reprise so it’d have to be at least the second movement you know
No, Ethan. If you were fuckin’ gay, you’d probably be a whole lot happier about it.
Yeah, you’ve barely introduced yourself to gay properly. You don’t jump to fucking just yet.
First attempt at the new profile pic.
Everyone knows, Ethan. Everyone’s read Shortpacked!. Except for Danny.
“Well, it’s kinda boring. I’m barely in it.”
I’m sort of shocked that this surprised Ethan. Didn’t Walky basically accuse him of being in the closet when they were on the double date? I would have thought that it was at least possible that he’d guessed!
Meanwhile, Joyce is enjoying that peculiar form of social death that you only experience when a dear friend starts raving in public.
Also, the cafeteria was not exactly empty at this point
Walk plays it cool here, but in truth it was a huge relief when he finally deduced that Ethan was gay, as opposed to being a fugitive who wanted to kill him and steal his way macho shirt.
Being as macho as Walky, you have to live with that fear constantly. If it’s not Ethan it’s someone else. But Walky will be ready to fend them off with just the raw power of his super genius.
Does this mean Ethan is on the f-bomb board?
Yeup.
So far the questioning meeting seems to work just fine!
Oh ethan…
Joyce told Dorothy (more or less) and so Dorothy didn’t need Walky to “spell it out for her”. Oh my goddess, if one of my friends had had a Walky-like boyfriend at college I would have been severely provoked to kick him at least once each time we ‘d have met.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/bestfriend/
That’s exactly what Walky said….
Reread what Walky says to Joyce here: “She needed you to spell it out for her.”. :3
You are both right. He is saying “you”, and because I was already annoyed with his attitude, “heard” something different (and vaguely wondered why Joyce reacted so strongly).
Huh. Just like in real life… 😳
Hahahaa! This Continues to be the BEST Chapter so far! 😀 😀 😀 Love Love Love it!
i rly hate the ‘buncha oblivious straight ppl magically know ur gay b4 u even come out’ trope
I get that, but, well, in real life it does happen that the people around you will notice before you’ve said anything. Sometimes even before you’ve even admitted it to yourself. And, to be fair, the “buncha” people who we know to know are either people who have good intuition (Sarah), people who’ve been told (Joyce, Dorothy, Amber, Mike and Dina), and, well, Walky, who has been so influenced by media that he can’t imagine a straight guy wouldn’t touch their girlfriend in public.
(Am I forgetting anyone?)
But they’re not oblivious, they all found out through totally logical ways. Dina put information together, Ethan observed his behaviour, Dorothy pieced together what Joyce was saying.
Plus Ethan has been far from subtle. His mouth says ‘I’m straight’ every other part of him is flirting hard with every attractive guy he runs into.
tbh i dont rly care bout their in-story reasons. i still hate the Trope
It is kind of antiquated and doesn’t really apply irl.
But then we wouldn’t have Ethan being Ethan (at least not how he’s been acting most of this comic about sed topic). Would also make the comic more dramatic (as opposed to a comedy), since this is obviously ‘hijinks ensue’ territory hence makes the general mood more jovial, as is befitting the comic’s tone.
Now that you pointed it out, I feel compelled to analyze the potential benefits of the trope a bit.
It seems to me that the reason it’s unrealistic is to lighten the mood when discussing a rather serious subject – therefore making it more palpable to those that are either unfamiliar with sed subject matter, or to those that don’t enjoy too much seriousness in their fiction. A light tone also sends the message of “it’s not THAT bad”, which can make grave problems feel more manageable – aiding the characters in dealing with them, while endearing sed trial and tribulations towards the readers (thus sympathizing sed struggle to the reader).
The unpleasant connotations are rather glaring though, but from what I can see it does have it’s positive effects – weather or not those are sufficient for yourself to if not like, at least tolerate it, is of course up to you.
I was simply trying to show a silver lining in something that
obviously upsets you.
It happens in real life all the time. People aren’t as good at faking it as they think they are.
yeah, & what im saying is that this isn’t real life, this is fiction, & i don’t like this fictional trope that pops up in fictional fiction
And you’re missing that it’s not a fictional trope, it’s a real life thing.
jfc. can u acknowledge that this webcomic isn’t a documentary or a memoir, it’s actually a piece of fictional media? media, moreover, that is written by a cis straight man? who might possibly be lacking a certain amount of nuanced insight into lgbt matters? & might be using certain recurring fictional tropes? that i, as a Real Life Lesbian, might have reason to criticize? while at the same time not actually criticizing real life events in any way at all?
in other words, ofc this is a thing that really happens, but i personally Hate its repeated, belittling utilization in fictional media.
Please take note as to why “I know” is not a good reaction to someone coming out to you. Unless you are in the following situation: http://explosm.net/comics/3664/
So… why is that not okay? I’ve heard coming out stories where a parent responded with “I know” when told and the person coming out was extremely relieved (though also often regretful that they didn’t come out sooner as it might have spared them a lot of energy and heartache).
There’s a difference between “I know, and I support and love you” like any morally sound parent should do for their kids and “I know, but I don’t give a shit because it has no effect on me” like Walky is here.
Apathy is not support.
THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Also, Ethan’s alarm here is amusing to us, maybe, but when you’re actually going through it and HAVING that panic of “holy shit, how obvious am I, I didn’t want to be out to anyone but the person I’m talking to,” it’s not funny. (Not everyone HAS that panic, but Ethan is clearly experiencing it, and I’ve felt it, and it is awful.)
Depending on how it’s said, it can also be really condescending. Sometimes people will tell you they’ve known for a long time, longer than YOU knew it about yourself, and that’s just embarrassing at best.
And usually, as in this case, the cues they’re using? Are giant stereotypes, which aren’t exactly the most accepting things in the world.
Story time: I was maybe 14, came out to a much older family friend out of necessity (I don’t remember my exact reason, maybe she’d suggested fixing me up with a young boy she knew?). She first told me she’d figured as much because of my CD collection, which was entirely the product of my mom and stepfather’s taste in music; and then she told me it had been too long for her, since she’d last met a gay person, so she was “due”.
Yeah, like… technically supportive? But it made me feel like shit. I’d chosen to trust her with something I was afraid of telling people, and she didn’t value that trust at all. I was nothing to her, just another “gay” blip in her life.
(Also, that I’d felt like I NEEDED to come out to her, whether because she was trying to fix me up with a boy or something else? Kind of a giveaway that she DID NOT, in fact, know, unless she was trying to trap me into coming out. In which case, what the ever loving fuck was wrong with her.)
How do you know what cues they’ve been using to ‘sniff’ out Ethan? Though you have a point, there is also the counterpoint that there’s a reason such stereotypes exist – because indeed, there are some gay people that adhere to them.
Just as someone acting like a duchebro is -probably- a duchebro.
It’s by no means smart if that was how they figured it out, but… well, to be frank, they’re still all quite young and inexperienced. They’re allowed to be semi-clueless for a while longer.
I do hope you don’t take offense to this, but your family’s friend sounds like an idiot. I’m pretty sure those people aren’t able, mentally, to understand the issue or be supportive. Your posts and mine do tend to clash, li (you may not have noticed since I’m relatively new to the comic and hence posted on things that date years in the past), but you are far too smart to be complemented or to feel supported by such hogwash (even if those CD’s where bought by yourself).
“I was nothing to her, just another “gay” blip in her life.” – well, before you having to tell her something deeply personal, wasn’t she something similar to you? I’d say that’s fair. Yes, she could have been more friendly, or supportive, but you two didn’t really seem like buddy-buddy material as far as your account of it goes… what I’m trying to say is you seemed to have had unrealistic expectations there.
I get the bruised feelings, but that’s really not that person’s fault. Not everyone will or even should care. I mean, would you REALLY want her to care? For her and you to become closer? Again, from what I can tell by reading many of your past comments, someone that insipid would piss you off/annoy you. You’re better off with her not caring.
She didn’t know, obviously. People say bullshit like that all the time to seem more insightful then they are. You must understand that others like her (ie: insipid people), consider such obviously bullshit blustering to be witty! It’s really not, but to them it -appears- as such. *shrug*
[Y]our family friend sounds like an idiot. I’m pretty sure those people aren’t able, mentally, to understand the issue or be supportive.
Holy crap, nooooo no no no no no. Please. Do not go here.
First off, she isn’t. She’s quite bright, quite educated, quite liberal. She was just also insensitive, as frankly you have been yourself in this very thread, to how her well-meaning response made me feel.
Second of all, REALLY? You jump to developmentally disabled from bad ally? Holy crap how incredibly gross, both of you to assume that only unintelligent people are capable of being jerks and to assume that all people with developmental disabilities are shitty.
“I was nothing to her, just another “gay” blip in her life.” – well, before you having to tell her something deeply personal, wasn’t she something similar to you? I’d say that’s fair.
Evidently “family friend” doesn’t mean the same thing to everyone that it means to my family. That’s fair, but you’ve assumed a lot of things here that are not true at all.
“Family friends” are, for me, basically extensions of my family. They are people who are more or less aunts and uncles to me, who have known me since I was tiny. I actually really cared about what this woman thought of me, like, a lot.
I mean, would you REALLY want her to care? For her and you to become closer? Again, from what I can tell by reading many of your past comments, someone that insipid would piss you off/annoy you. You’re better off with her not caring.
This is an incredibly judgmental and insensitive thing for you to say, about anybody.
“They hurt you, but clearly they only hurt you because they’re an idiot, so you shouldn’t let their opinion affect you.” Like, seriously, fuck you. You do realize you are saying this retroactively to a fourteen-year-old? She should just turn off her emotions and cease to be invested in people who have hurt her? That responsibility, that onus, is on HER? Gross.
Given all of this, I don’t really feel inclined to try to address whatever point you thought you were making about stereotypes. (I mean, Walky LITERALLY was using a stereotype about straight men as being physical and handsy. We LITERALLY know it was a stereotype in his case, just as it was a stereotype about liking the Indigo Girls in my case.) Sometimes they’re true, that’s your defense? Lol.
a) Odd, usually well-meaning people don’t say something that blatantly dismissive. But I suppose everyone has their off days. That sed, with the information I had on her, that’s exactly how she came off. Good to know she wasn’t like that all the time. Still, her comment was deeply insipid and that says something about her.
Um, no, I was being flippant. I was calling her an idiot, not saying she had developmental disabilities. Heck, that would have been a mitigating factor if it existed.
I was stating that there’s plenty of people that can’t grasp this sort of issue and have zero interest or capability to do so – they aren’t disabled, simply unintelligent or uncaring.
Also, I never sed ONLY unintelligent people are capable of being jerks – simply that with the data you gave and the way you presented it, this seemed to be the case for her in particular.
b) I, in fact, only assumed ‘family friends’ are friends of your family – as opposed to your personal friends. In other words, I had no assumptions – just a textbook definition.
I’d have judged the situation differently if you sed she also happened to be -your- friend.
” “Family friends” are, for me, basically extensions of
my family.” – as you noted before, this is not the case for everyone. The meaning of the word simply states that someone is a friend of the family – not necessarily to you, without further clarification I had no reason to assume otherwise. Be more descriptive if you wish to avoid confusion.
“I actually really cared about what this woman thought of me, like, a lot.” Ah, well then, I can only say that I am sorry she disappointed you such.
Side-note: My family had quite a few friends and some I liked a lot – considered them personal friends (my mother’s and father’s friends especially) – and others I disliked and only gave the due respect they where owed from being friends with someone in my family (mostly these where my grandfather’s drinking buddies – a crass, smelly and unintelligent, if jovial lot).
c) Again, you assume I knew you considered her your friend as well. With what you sed previously, I only knew she was friends with your family, not you, hence what I sed.
“You do realize you are saying this retroactively to a fourteen-year-old?” – I was not saying it retroactively to a 14 year old, I was saying it to you, whatever your age might now be.
I was also talking about someone that you -just- stated was misrepresented, hence with this new information I must change my stance to: “She failed that time, but it wasn’t obviously malicious. Just insipid. If you say she’s worth it, I’ll take that at face value and… well, sorry to hear you had a bad experience. Hopefully you won’t let it bother you too much.” Because now, with more data I have a clearer picture of what happened and how it might have affected you, and why.
“that onus, is on HER?” If you’re talking about the responsibility of who you’re interested in being friends with – yes, that is most defiantly on yourself (or how you phrased it, on that fourteen-year-old).
We make choices and we have to live with them, even at 14. It IS our choice with who we want to spend time with, though perhaps not so much a conscious one at times.
I’m not saying that the blame for other’s actions and insensitivity is on you (it is most solidly on them), simply that you should try to know who you’re dealing with and act to the best of your knowledge.
As I sed before, I don’t know how Walky figured it out. That probably is me not remembering, but that being such I can’t fault him for something I don’t know he did. If it’s as you say and it was simply Ethan being “physical and handsy” – well, Walky… you need to learn a thing or two about how real life works… but then again since Walky’s the comic’s Jester role, I’m not sure that’s a thing he should ever know. Irl, I’d facepalm, but seeing as he’s in-comic, I’ll simply take it for what it is – silly Walky being silly for that is his role (he’s also pointing out it’s silly, so it’s really more of a criticism to sed modes of thinking, as we
can clearly see Walky is being ridiculous, if that’s how he ‘knew’).
Yes, sometimes stereotypes are relevant; mostly they’re not.
It really depends on the stereotype in question, as some have reasonable (if full of holes) logic behind them and others use taste in music, which is utter poppycock.
In this comic: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/exclusivity/
Walky tells Dorothy that Ethan’s hands never being near Joyce told him that Ethan was gay, and he basically says the same thing in the following comic. A big flaw in this reasoning is that Ethan could be respecting Joyce’s boundaries in regard to Ryan’s assault, and this is something Walky knows about.
Walky follows stereotypes for how he should be manly, one major example being that he only owns one pair of shoes because only girls have more than one pair of shoes.
Even though Walky makes a lot of jokes when he’s around it doesn’t negate the fact that he applies damaging stereotypes, says insensitive and dismissive things to the people around him. Just like in real life, you are not immune to being called on your actions because you make jokes from time to time.
I’m gonna be honest, I didn’t even get through the second paragraph of this reply. Too much condescension. Clearly very little, if any, interest in accepting that your words had been poorly-chosen. Nope, it’s all my fault for not being even more long-winded and going into even more detail about my personal life for the sake of making a point on here to protect you from accidentally making assumptions.
You were wrong about me, you were wrong about her. You were wrong, both in my thread and talking to Cerberus, to try to dictate how queer people should feel about coming out, who we should “let” ourselves be invested in (as if emotions have an off/on switch; for most people, they don’t), or… like, anything else about being queer, if I’m correct in reading that you’re straight and cis.
Just let it go at that, dude. Or don’t, but I’m not going to be reading any reply you make here. Coming back THIS time was already so clearly a waste of my time.
(For what it’s worth, since I didn’t acknowledge it before, I didn’t recognize your username. So I wasn’t preemptively reacting badly to you. And I won’t preemptively react badly to you in the future, either. I’m not interested in having feuds with people on here. I’m just… also not interested in putting my reactions to homophobia up for debate. Sorry not sorry.)
This as well. “I know” preceding love and support and a demonstration that that won’t affect how the person coming out is treated is a positive and a really awesome thing to do. “I know” being used as a tool to try and yank back the attention can be super shitty and a red flag* and can be really painful for the person agonizing over it.
*Red flag because often those dismissive type of seemingly-supportive comments can precede the beginning of that identity being buried or ignored and let fester a lot of bigoted ideas that will explode more violently or toxically later. Someone saying “I know already, why are we even talking about this?” is much more likely to throw a bunch of bigoted and unsupportive garbage down the line because they cut off the opportunity for the person coming out to humanize themselves and build a healthy relationship.
Personally, I fell for the false support trap with my family and that ended up burning me bad down the road when I was assuming they were chill about things and they were actually filling themselves with a lot of bad information and toxicity.
Some people just genuinely don’t care about the sexuality of others though, or consider it so normalized that its not even a thing. You aren’t special, you’re just gay. Why would anyone but jerks and people who want to pursue a relationship with you care?
Much more succinct then I would have sed it, thank you. You’re spot on.
Well it’s more that apathy is a lie.
They do care, but they don’t want to be read accurately as bigots whose way of interacting is different because of the way you are, so instead there’s this aggressive enforcement of a normativity.
There’s a difference between “cool dude, well in that case, bring your boyfriend over” and “why are you even bringing up this queer shit, we don’t care. Why do you have to make everything about how queer you are with your ‘boyfriend this’ stuff?”.
And there’s a still further difference between both of those and what I encountered too many times at the last Dyke March of bros loudly stating how they don’t even care that their friend is queer while they go around taunting the actual lesbians, throwing food on them, and constantly pestering all of them for threesomes.
Apathy can be painful, can be used as a tool to hurt and to enforce a normativity just as it can be used as a means to show that it won’t affect how someone is treated.
Pure apathy though can be really shitty even if intended positively, because though it may not matter to you straight person, it sure as hell matters to the queer person. It dictates who they will likely love, how their relationships will be treated, whether or not they’ll have a harder time finding a job, whether or not they’re in genuine risk of violence for being outside as themselves, and where their rights are constantly under attack or straight up denied.
Being queer affects queer individuals greatly, so sometimes a straight person going “so why should I care” can be really alienating and gross and make it harder to feel safe being out and exploring their identity (see the comments here when Becky was trying to figure out what her queer identity was).
Gay rights aren’t solved. There are still social consequences, even fatal consequences for being queer in some locations. So yeah, it’s not just normalized and nothing and someone taking the risk to tell you should be respected in that instead of dismissed as “ungh, what do you think you’re special or something” because that’s really douchey.
“why are you even bringing up this queer shit, […] how queer you are with your ‘boyfriend this’ stuff?”
Well, that’s not apathy – that’s obvious malicious bullshit. Separate from Walky and those like him, which are quite apathetic to the subject matter. To be fair, if the gay person keeps bringing it up time after time, it can be more of a poor reaction to a irritating habit. For example, I don’t bring up ponies where it’s not appropriate, or constantly, because that would be irritating the people around me with my own interests that aren’t shared by my current peers. Simple fix for that, get new peers or drop the tired line. BUUUT, what you posed really REALLY sounds malicious, or at best uncomfortable from the ones that say it. Oh, and there’s that – some people aren’t comfortable with the topic while not letting it affect their behavior towards you. Insisting on it would be intrusive from the lgbt’s part, and not cool. But really, the quote sounds rather crass and shitty regardless of intent.
The dudebros that throw… tomatoes (ffs) and talk smack with the lesbians… yeah, classic example of how even major assholes have friends they’re willing to stand by, but will still be major assholes to everyone else – making them no better then the major assholes they always where. Also I want to punch them. In the face. Then go watch yuri anime with the lesbians.
“whether or not they’ll have a harder time finding a job” – I’m pretty sure there’s laws against that. Sadly I wouldn’t be surprised if they aren’t followed. It is an extra layer of bullshit that lgbt’s have to get through if they want to be open about their sexuality.
While I agree it might hurt to have people apathetic towards you, that’s not really on them. That is your own cross to bear, sad as it is. But we all have them, just different ones. Take divorce for example – it might hurt me if affected, but I can’t expect any degree of sympathy past a cordial ‘that sucks’ from most people – heck, sometimes you’ll get shit like “but now you’re FREE! LOLOLOL!”… yeah, that’s the opposite of helping, but foolish as it might be, it’s their point of view and it would be a huge wasted effort to try to swing it in the way I want it to go – not to mention it would be completely self-serving. My problem, not theirs – unless they’re a close friend; case in which it would be pretty shitting of them to not care at all.
You should never feel 100% safe, that’s just being naive.
Not the world we have to live in, and no amount of trying will change that fundamentally. There should always be a measure of readiness to defend yourself verbally or otherwise when going outside – after all, not all people are kind.
Some are evil, and one must accept that as a matter of survival. It’s why we learn early on not to trust strangers with candy.
This isn’t sad, it’s realism.
“Gay rights aren’t solved.” Human rights aren’t solved in many locations. Should I even mention religious rights? There’s a whole new country that wants to kill most of us for not adhering to their specific dogma.
But as far as minority groups go, gays do have it quite good in certain areas (Germany is really big on sed issue, for example). Not a reason to stop putting the word out there, but there’s never a time to do that – society evolves constantly, not always in the same way it did in the last 10 years.
However, LGBT social reforms have come a LONG way since the 80s.
“ungh, what do you think you’re special or something” – yeah, that is douchey. But that seems like the kind of thing a low-tier douchebag would say. Avoid him, no harm done. Meanwhile there are people that will actually care that you’d be better advised spending your time around. If you have no other choice, then it is tolerable (people should develop a minimum of thick skin, there are worse things in life to worry about then low-tier douchebags like this one) – mostly because such people tend not to care about you or your feelings, so appealing to that won’t get you anywhere.
See that’s the thing. A lot of straight people who think they are well-meaning have that exact attitude. Ugh, I said I supported you already, why are you still talking about that? Why are you bringing up your girlfriend? Why are you talking about homophobia? Why are you chattering about this law that would grant you more rights?
Being queer has impact on our daily lives in the same way that being straight is. Straight people aren’t often aware of how much they throw their straightness in everyone’s faces. Hey, check out my boyfriend’s picture. So we’re planning to get married soon. Oh, hey, isn’t it annoying when (sexist stereotype). Hey bros, man that (famous actress) sure is hot isn’t she.
But are very quick to notice when queer people talk about their lives in the same way. I mean, that whole last exchange sounded perfectly normal and what are you even talking about, right? And that’s the thing. Because of the marginalization, talking about family, friends, weekend activities, daily touches of life, and so on is seen as actively political and as throwing queerness around.
And since that has been socially buried for so long, there’s a lot of social pressure on queer people to shut up about things less they, as you note, annoy people by “always taking about queerness”.
And there’s the other example where you compared it to being into ponies. Except this isn’t an interest like your interest in ponies or my excitement about Steven Universe. It’s part of who we are, our identity, and its fundamental to how the world treats us. And the default state is that we’re expected to speak about none of it, which is why when a queer character tries to do what a straight character would do when talking about their lives or respond to that pressure they’re often viewed as shoving it in people’s faces (see any comment section of most every queer show to see the people rolling their eyes at how the queer element was just shoved in their faces and is a little much or really inappropriate and totally threw them out of the experience).
Being asked to shut up about an interest is one thing, but being repeatedly asked to stay silent about our lives, when that silence is often paid back with political consequences against our rights is a problem and that dismissal of it as just another interest one is getting enmeshed in is often a giant red flag (my uncle straight up pulled that one when he was disowning me, that I was just interested in being super gay instead of being a productive member of society… which was because I told him I was trans and defended myself when he got shitty about it).
So yeah, there’s that reality we’re all tiptoeing around.
The laws a) aren’t well enforced in states that have them, b) aren’t in existence in most states including Indiana, and c) even states that have them often have standardized methods of getting around them (arguments about a queer individual not “fitting into the company culture” is one of the more common ones).
There’s a reason very few office environments have many out queer members and if it’s a middle class job, there’s a reason why there is almost never a trans person in sight (nearly all of the out trans people I know end up working retail or moving into sex work, because so many of the other options end in painful discrimination).
Hell I was discriminated out of a job in the Bay Area a little more than 2 years ago for being trans even though that is illegal in this state.
Well, most people are very good at showing sympathy for people suffering from normative problems. When straight people divorce or someone has a sick parent, people are very quick to be sympathetic or at least attempt to be kind albeit in terrible ways.
Queer problems? Not so much. I straight up had close family just straight up glare and dismiss the end of an 8.5 year long relationship that was every bit akin to a divorce simply because we were both queer so it was regarded as less valuable than someone’s Vegas wedding and subsequent divorce.
And talking about the human cost of apathy in terms of rights and the regard of one’s humanity? Very few want to hear that shit and people are often quick to beg out of hearing about it without much changing their sympathy for those living it.
Because they have the privilege to not think about it.
Yeah, but I manage cis straight people who are white much have to worry about being murdered or have to prepare to withstand a gauntlet of dirty glares and muttered curses everytime they want to buy a carton of milk.
My trans ass… not so much.
I’m just going to straight up waltz right past this without stopping because wow, just wow.
Except those douchebags vote. Those douchebags make up controlling membership on company boards. Those douchebags run HR department. Those douchebags have queer kids. Those douchebags and their assholery may be the difference between whether a young queer kid takes their own life or not.
Saying to ignore it is all well and good when people can ignore it, but those directly affected by bigotry and casual bigotry can’t ignore it because it is what shapes the outline of our lives and our options.
Ethan’s life is shaped by being queer, just as Sarah’s life is shaped by being black, just as Carla’s life is shaped by being ace and trans, just as Dina’s life is shaped by not being neurotypical. They can all have other facets to their lives that make them full characters that we’re interested in, but because of society all those pieces have their impact in how they’re treated, how they struggle, how their struggles are interpreted.
And trying to ignore that with apathy or shrugging about it and waltzing past is certainly a thing that regularly happens, but it is a privilege that those who don’t share those oppressions can afford. It is easy for a white person to claim they don’t see race or a man to say that it shouldn’t matter what gender you are or a straight person to shrug and claim apathy while having an impact on a space.
But that doesn’t mean those are comforting behaivors for those drowning in racism, sexism, or homophobia.
a) “But are very quick to notice when queer people talk about their lives in the same way.” – If that’s the case, why not point it out when it happens? I get your point, but there’s perhaps something else here that’s being neglected – ‘the group and it’s interests’. If it’s a group of say, 7 friends, and 6 of them are straight, I would wager that the topics mentioned above would be interesting to 6 of them, possibly very annoying to one. This is assuming they’re the kind of person you’re talking about – the exacerbated hetero kind that flaunt it without realizing and cast down their gay friends attempts at the same.
This seems like a bad friend-dynamic, and if I’d be the gay one I’m not sure I’d attend many of these gatherings. But there are also the ones that don’t mind either. There’s a lot of variation in nuance that can be had here. If it’s the kind of unfair dynamic you’re referring to, there’s really only 3 ways of dealing with it as the gay friend – explain problem/debate and see where that gets you, remove yourself from sed circle of friends, or accept it as a flaw these friends of yours have but because of other reasons they’re still worth it to have as friends and then you basically ignore the problem. All of these have cons and pros – which one sed gay member of the friend circle opts for is a entirely personal choice.
“Except this isn’t an interest” – though online, I can tell you from experience that I’ve had every reaction, including instant death threats from simply stating I’m a brony. While being gay is much more then an interest, I used the example because it somewhat parallels what sort of reactions one can get (though in the case of being a brony, this is mostly limited to online interactions, where as being lgbt would have the possibility of such reactions in real life as well as online) and hence the possible hesitation, fear even, for merely announcing that facet of your personality.
b) “arguments about a queer individual not “fitting into the company culture” ” – This reminds me, sort of, how in my country (Romania), women seem to have a lot of advantages job-wise over men, at least in certain job areas. There are MANY positions that will openly advertise that they only seek women – restaurants for example. The obvious reasoning is that women tend to get more customers in the restaurant, hence a marketing advantage. This reasoning applies to most positions that have to do with interacting with people – women are preferred to men or outright the only acceptable gender. That sed, there is a balance of sorts – you won’t find many construction companies that employ women workers, because typically men are expected to be stronger, hence more fitting for the job. I normally don’t get upset over these things as there are -somewhat- cold, rational reasons behind them, but they still exclude a segment of the population based on standardized expectations that don’t apply to everyone (how many more customers would someone looking like a young Brad Pitt get in a restaurant if he got hired, for example). It is a sad state of affairs that needs solutions that take into account human uniqueness, though that is hard to do when such things would cost time and money – the reason why these standard approaches exist in the first place.
c) “I straight up had close family just straight up glare and dismiss the end of an 8.5 year long relationship” – I’m very sorry to hear that, you have my sympathies. Loosing any relationship that you cared for is terrible, not to mention such a long lasting one. /hug
At least the memories will never pass – hopefully the good ones at any rate.
“Because they have the privilege to not think about it.” – As sad as it is uplifting, there will always be someone that shared a pain you had. It’s one of the things that humanity has going for it – we may feel like we’re alone, but there ARE those out there that will understand us, the ones that, like us, do not have the privilege to not care. Never alone, even if far apart.
d) “My trans ass… not so much.” Really hard not to make a flirtatious comment that implies I’d happily protect your trans ass. But here I am, resisting my primal urges. Go me. 😛 (Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood, if you ever read this.)
On a more serious note, I could say I felt the same way when I was a fat shy, introverted kid inside school (perhaps not under threat of being murdered, but certainly of beatings – and it’s easy to get from one to the other by mistake). That sed, no one should feel that way, and it is a very very depressing reality – but there it is, existing in spite of how by all that is righteous, it should not exist. Again, as a matter of survival, know what you face and acquire the tools you need to face those threats. In my case it was learning how to fight, and becoming more sociable.
In your case – well, much the same I’d say, minus sociable and plus the added protection of some self-defense device like a stunner/zapper/electric thingy.
Not fun, I know, but such things do force us to become stronger individuals, if nothing else.
e) “I’m just going to straight up waltz right past this without stopping because wow, just wow.” – Mkay’.
f) Public opinion is a fickle thing. It can be influenced one way or another. There are ways. Douchebags won’t likely care either way, but there are plenty of folks that aren’t like that and just assume the most popular stance – those you can turn around.
That sed, I get your point (I think) – even if you won’t stop the douchebag in question, hopefully by exposing his assholery you’re in some small way dissuading further attacks against more vulnerable targets. Noble, if perhaps inefficient.
“But that doesn’t mean those are comforting behaivors for those drowning in racism, sexism, or homophobia.” – That depends on the interpretation, doesn’t it? As noted by others, it can, in fact, be exactly what is needed.
My point wasn’t how comforting it is though – it’s that it lacks malice and that’s enough. That is the cornerstone of polite conversation. It is all that is owed, everything else is gravy.
How it impacts the individual in question is largely on him, since it is shaped by how his life has molded him and all that he feels and thinks.
“You can’t please everyone.”, as the saying goes. You can however, not be an asshole – and I don’t think Walky acted as such here.
A fine talk we had, Cerberus. I wish thee’ only the best.
*polite bow*
Which with Ethan, Ethan is very aware of how being gay has affected his life. The impact it had on how his parents treated him. The way it burnt out his best friend in the world and left him somewhat alone in the beginning of the year. All the risks that come with being out as oneself.
So someone going “whatever, gayness, pfft” to him is not going to seem comforting but dismissive of his struggles and pain. He doesn’t need to hear that people don’t care. He needs to hear that people still love and respect him.
Wait, I may be horribly misremembering, but wasn’t what Ethan was afraid of ‘people treating him differently’ and ‘everything being about his
sexuality’ – hence why he’s trying to bury it.
Because he fears it will be everything others will see in him. He’s not afraid everyone will abandon him as much as he’s afraid that’s all they’ll see him as – because he has a personality, interests (Transformers!), etc that he wants to be judged by, not his sexual urges.
Walky being “whatever, gayness, pfft” is exactly what he’d want to hear – that it doesn’t matter that he’s gay to his friends, that they’ll treat him the same as they did before.
This is why he liked the idea of Joyce ‘fixing’ him – because she offered him the normality he craves but he -thinks- he can’t have due to his orientation. Walky is proving to him that he can very much have normality.
Dark Veghetta-
Frustrated at impact being gay has had on his life:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-2/01-pajama-jeans/extolling/
Tired about the marginalization: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/02-choosing-my-religion/primal/
Exhausted friend: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-2/01-pajama-jeans/wronged/
Family support dependent on closet: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/placate/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/blunt/
Sure, he also wants to be known as more than the gay guy, every queer person wants to be known as more than the queer person, but there are genuine social factors that have been colliding on him whether or not he wanted them to and whether or not he even wanted to be gay in the first place.
Oh, right. The family issues thing. Yeah, that’ll be ugly later on.
Regarding the others – it’s mostly an issue of him ignoring reality and stumbling due to lack of experience. Or not knowing how to find what he’s looking for, though there are ways (not to mention the question of weather or not he knows what he really needs – something that at his age is likely to be a ‘nope’).
Still, his reaction shows that while frustrating, it is good for him to hear his friends won’t treat him any differently with them knowing he’s gay.
Of course, this being Walky, even Ethan doesn’t expect tact.
This is like the biggest truthbomb about LGBT whites and the heterosexual moderate there is.
*LGBT rights.
Dangit. Almost went a whole day without an error.
Apathy from someone that has no business caring about your sentimental or love-life seems like quite the adequate and sane line of thought to me.
Walky isn’t Ethan’s best friend from what I know – I don’t even recall them having a heart-to-nachos moment together. So why would Walky care about who Ethan wants to bang? It’s really none of his business.
This assumption that because you’re somehow different (gay/trans/other/anything else that’s a social taboo in hillbilly country) everyone -should- care is very much narcissistic in nature. CLOSE friends should, the kind you discuss your day with – but that’s not the case here; I don’t recall Walky being quite that close to Ethan.
So yes, apathy is not support – because Walky owes no such thing to Ethan. What he does owe him is basic human acceptance, and he’s very much given such.
Allow me to reiterate: just because you’re gay/otherwise doesn’t mean everyone owes you support – only your close family and good friends do, everyone else just has to treat you like a normal person.
If someone’s being supportive that’s not your close friend, then that person is being -kind- to you. That’s not something that is required in normal social interactions, but should be appreciated. Acting as if people that are neutral towards you are being mean to you is rude – in fact you’re the one that’s being mean to them in that scenario.
PS: Walky’s attitude is showing Ethan that him being gay isn’t a big deal for most others of his age – this is exactly what Ethan needs to realize in order to get over his fears. He may be overly-smug, but he’s Walky – the comic relief – of course he’s being smug here (not to mention recent issues Walky’s been having that are making him be even more smug then usual).
Based solely on the fact that I’m bisexual (not straight so different) I don’t expect or believe I’m due support from anyone.
I only “expect” basic respect as I am a person.
I should have been more clear both times I posted about my feelings. My sexuality is something I have no control over. I can however choose my words and control most of my mannerisms. While I was closeted I took great care on where my eyes lingered, how I made my gestures, what arguments I made about popular culture. I did this to try and control what people thought of me and to work through my aniexty about being not straight. I could control the closet door for a while, but the more time I spent there the more suffocated I felt.
I personally would have taken a big hit to my confidence if the first thing a person told me after I came out to them was “I know” and left it there. In part because I would then begin obsessing over what I had been doing wrong/ failing to cover up, along with who else already knew. I see this particular reaction as invalidating my experience and time in the closet because it was obvious to everyone.
Once again this is only how I feel and read these interactions. As others have stated they didn’t feel the same way, and felt relieved at the response. I’m sorry for making an over simplistic blanket statement.
“What he does owe him is basic human acceptance, and he’s very much given such.” To be fair, I should have sed ‘basic respect’, but in this case… well, Walky’s the local Jester Of The Play.
He is held by different social norms then the rest. Also he’s quite oblivious and inexperienced. I’d say that’s the best reaction Ethan could get here – and for his particular situation (because this is a comic = comedy), it did him a lot of good. Irl things would be different, no doubt, but if this was real we’d have to retcon most of the comic. We can only take aspects of it seriously, because others are intentionally not true to life.
I’d wager -tone- would play a huge part in how it would affect you, correct? Because such things are difficult or impossible to tell via the written word. Also… Ethan did a fairly poor job ‘covering’ on many occasions. I’m guessing someone irl, such as yourself, would be far more adept. What I’m trying to say is that the situation is fictional.
Real-life variations tend to be either quite obviously benevolent (with good reasons such as seeing you kiss another male, or your porn collection) or simple bullshit people say to not seem blind-sighted by the situation. I’d mention that it’s quite impossible for someone of Walky’s familiarity with Ethan to judge these things in real life.
So really, the two irl options would be stranger bullshitting you (malicious asshole or insipid peon), or perhaps, someone very close that picked up on small hints over a large time-frame (or a big hint over a small time-frame) – and with the second option I’d assume you’d have the opportunity to ask how he/she found out, and hopefully being a close friend you’d also get other apt friend-reactions, like an offer of support if appropriate.
Mate, over-simplistic blanket statements are the juices that spur debates and passion! Don’t worry too much about it – I, for one, had fun debating here, even if things got heated at times. ^_^
Side note: It would be a more interesting world for me if more people such as yourself wouldn’t have to take care how long their eyes lingered. Perhaps I’d finally have confirmation about certain things about myself. *wink wink nudge nudge* … … I’m implying I might have been seduced by a man by now. Pitty it didn’t happen yet. ;P
When I was coming out, tone would not have mattered. My anxiety was very high at the time and a very good portion of that was rooted in people thinking I was straight.
In the end everyone is different and I can only speak to my experience.
This, too.
I mean, some of us clearly like being told “I know”, as long as it’s in the right tone. For others of us it is the fucking worst.
I feel like there’s undoubtedly a middle ground. A way to indicate that nothing has changed between you (which seems to be what the people in favor of “I know” like most about it) WITHOUT the dismissive aspect that the rest of us hate.
^ quite, quite. But that requires tact, and many lack it.
And apathy is just fine unless the person actually needs support.
Which Ethan is in dire need of, because his parents are total cocks, his best friend abandoned him, his entire extended family and school community sends him messages about how he’s an abomination, and he’s painfully aware of how queer sexuality is treated by society at large.
Yup, which ironically is why Joyce has been great for him because she’s the only one who hasn’t viewed him as being lesser or harder to deal with for being gay. She’s the one telling him he deserves love and the things she wants. And she’s the one who encouraged him to come tonight to the Questioning meeting.
Quelle Ironic that the one who wanted to “fix him” initially turns out to be his biggest ally.
No, Ethan needs to be around people who treat it casually. It was people making a big deal of it that made him crawl back into the closet.
But there is a huge difference between treating it casually and what Walky is doing now. Ethan needs to understand that his sexuality is perfectly acceptable and it shouldn’t burden him, that he doesn’t need to feel guilty for “disappointing” his parents and for how things turned out with Amber.
“Your struggles with your sexuality are pointless and I don’t care” is absolutely not what Ethan needs.
“Your struggles with your sexuality are pointless and I don’t care” – Objection, misrepresentation, that is not what the witness sed!
I quote: “Yeah, I know.” Yes, he’s being flippant, but that doesn’t mean he’s saying his struggles do not matter – you’re putting words in his mouth that simply are not there. He just sed that he knows and is inferring that him being gay isn’t a big deal to him.
What Ethan thinks of this is entirely Ethan’s business, Walky shouldn’t be expected to cater to Ethan’s insecurities – something he may not even be aware of existing (remember, it’s Walky).
Walky isn’t Ethan’s close friend – they are simply acquaintances at this point. It’s not for him to meddle in Ethan’s business further then ‘Yeah, I know. Good pizza.’.
Don’t make blanket statements, it depends on the subject. “I know” is the best possible reaction in my case.
Yeah, in my case I was relieved to hear “I know” when I heard people say it. (Though most people’s reaction to me coming out has been along the lines of “Oh, I had no idea!) To me it was reassuring that it wouldn’t really change how the other person treated me, and that those people were cool with it.
Of course this is all highly variable based on individual experience, and the general public opinion towards non heterosexuality in the area where the closeted person is. My experience is definitely not representative on how other closeted people might feel. I understand why someone might panic at such a reaction, especially if they’ve came out to others and got a negative reaction before. (Such as Ethan here)
Though no matter what, Walky is being a smug jerk here, with his “I already knew because I’m a genius! Other people needed it spelled out for them but I’m just so smart!”
Yes, this.
On the other hand, it’s pretty clear he’s still enmeshed in the idea that things that come easy to you make you smart and things that don’t are existential crises about your whole identity.
So, he may be viewing gaydar coming easy to him as a means of cleansing his palate of the whole studying thing and his bad quiz.
Doesn’t make it any less of a douche move, but that might be one of the reasons why he’s taking so many pains to crow about it here.
Well. That was quite the debate I sparked, huh. But I get it now. I always saw the “I know” reaction as “I[‘ve] know[n for a while and I haven’t been treating you differently because I see no reason to because I care about you]”, but then I’ve never been faced with the “I know, I don’t care, stop talking about it” shit. So, basically, it’s all in the delivery (kind smile and soft tone vs frowny face and negative tone) and what you say afterwards (“I love and support you” vs “shut up about it” or even “and that’s why I’ve decided you to send you to summer camp, you’ll see, it’ll be fun, and they’ll turn you back to normal”).
No seriously, Walky is the fucking worst right now.
yep
I mean, not really
He crashed a meeting for questioning individuals so he could get free pizza.
He’s feeding into Ethan’s insecurities about his sexuality, and describes how Dorothy is “on to him” like Ethan is running some kind of con game.
He’s being a smug asshole to Joyce when she’s trying to help Ethan in his time of need.
I get that there’s a whole lot proving his basic humanity and how he’s capable of acts of love, but that doesn’t make him any less of a total prick.
Yeah, and he’s using this opportunity to crow about his own intelligence while dismissing the emotional impact of things.
If he’s not bi, this is pretty much his biggest dick move so far.
I think it’s way more likely that he’s just being the casually “supportive” straight dude who just totes doesn’t care about your sexuality so please don’t ever acknowledge it.
I really don’t think he’s that bad. And crashing open meetings for free food is such a long-standing college tradition I don’t even know why it’s on the list.
Ethan isn’t really questioning though. He’s gay. He just has no idea how to come out about it. Walky is trying to tell him that a lot of people already know and it isn’t anything special. Walky knows, Dorothy knows, neither of them made it into a big thing. Ethan is mad his dramatic journey of self discovery is being met with mostly indifference from people who already knew. Joyce is freaking out about everyone else knowing and not caring about what is supposed to be a deep dark secret (and probably wondering if they can see her ‘questioning’ as transparently)
I think Joyce might have a different reason for freaking out.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/lose/
She thinks that Dorothy won’t be her friend anymore the moment Dorothy figures out what Joyce had been trying to do with Ethan. (That’s obviously not what happened when Dorothy did figure it out, but Joyce’s worries were based off of what Sarah told her, which is based off of Sarah’s own experiences).
Dorothy herself has already figured out that Joyce dumped Ethan because she realized what she was doing was wrong. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/noodle/
But when she made that realization, she decided to not bring up her concerns with the relationship to Joyce, because the relationship was over and Joyce learned from it. So Joyce didn’t know that Dorothy already knew until now.
OOOOohhhh. Riiight. I completely forgot about that.
Thanks for pointing it out.
Quite the opposite, actually, Spencer. Walky is so blasé about this that it’s having a very positive effect on Ethan – more specifically, it’s showing him it’s NOT a big deal, or at least it doesn’t have to be. Most of his generation won’t really mind him being gay – except the obvious bigots and assholes, but those always find something to despise you for.
Not to mention he’s the only one here that’s willing to be straight (pun intended) with Ethan about how things stand. Walky being Walky is EXACTLY what Ethan needs right now.
This is absolutely correct. The kind of attitude Walky has here is exactly what I most wanted to find when I started coming out to my friends. I was terrified people would make a big deal out of it, I didn’t want to go through that kind of drama. I think Walky is doing the perfect thing here, Ethan seriously needs this reality check.
If Walky cared enough about Ethan to say “I already know. It’s cool, though” then I wouldn’t be saying anything, because that would be fine. Instead, he’s talking about how he and other people have sussed him out. That isn’t okay.
Ethan does not need a reality check. He does not need to worry that he’s being too open about his sexuality because, oh shit, Walky figured it out so who else did?
But he -did- need a reality check. He was ignorant of the general situation and worrying himself silly about something that wasn’t an issue for his friends.
Also, notice that Ethan already reacted and it’s basically positive. Via the page above, we can deduce that Walky just did Ethan a big favor.
As a matter of fact, being ignorant of reality, no matter how that makes you feel is never a good thing. Knowing where you stand is -always- helpful (unless you’re Danny, then even that might not help).
Was Walky gentle? No. He’s Walky – don’t have unrealistic expectations of the comic relief with a big ego.
Walky above all the others is the most unrealistic person – because he’s the quintessential comic relief; among all the cast, he’s the one that I don’t expect to act like a real person half the time. And that’s a good thing. This isn’t a drama, it’s a webcomic that occasionally has silliness in it – often via Walky. This is why Walky is allowed to be Walky,he’s the Jester of the play – and everyone knows not to take him -too- seriously most of the time, but it also allows him to say things other’s couldn’t or shouldn’t.
Would it have been better for Ethan if he found out from someone gently telling him that they accept him for what he is? Eh, in reality yes, but this is a webcomic and it’s funnier this way.
When Walky tells Ethan about how he figured it out, and who else knows, it’s because those are answers to direct questions from Ethan. His phrasing is deeply obnoxious, but Ethan did ask.
au contraire x2, veghetta. i respect all of u who prefer this unaffected attitude & ‘oh i already know’ reactions, but that’s not a universal experience. bein gay often Is a Big Deal, & i doubt any lgb or t person has ever needed a lil str8 dude to tell them It Doesn’t Have To Be, if only they could have some Perspective.
it’s also not Just The Bigots who will Have A Problem w someone’s sexuality. and no, they wouldn’t always Find A Reason to despise everyone. shockingly, str8 ppl do not face homophobic bigotry. this is bc the thing that makes bigots bigots is that they specifically despise the groups they r bigoted against. weird, right?
anyway, whether walky bein walky is Exactly What Poor Naive Gay Ethan needs right now or not, this is a discussion about fictional characters & highly personal experiences, and therefore there is no one Right Answer. so, u can kindly drop the condescending tone
Why is a ‘lil st8 dude’ obligated to have any reaction whatsoever to any lgb or t person? Walky isn’t shocked, or surprised, and doesn’t really seem to care at all. Dude was just there for some free pizza and Ethan ran into him and decided to have a moment. They’re acquaintances, at best. When Walky doesn’t react the way Ethan expects he starts asking additional questions, further intruding on Walky’s pizza time.
Walky just wants some pizza, why does Ethan feel he needs to know about his sexual preferences? And why does Ethan feel entitled to grill him about who else knows? Let the man eat his pizza.
FREE pizza, I might add! The best kind there is.
This is a special moment for Walky.
Ethan was expecting his Walky not to know as he’s returned to the closet in order to have control over his identity. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/02-guess-whos-coming-to-galassos/alwaysalways/
He’s asking, not grilling Walky if Amber outted him; because is she has that’s a major breach of trust, and is taking the control over his identity from him. If she had inadvertently outted him to more than just Dina she needs to be made aware of it (this isn’t the case as we know).
Walky doesn’t realize it but he’s telling Ethan that the only stupid people cannot see through his closet, and thats not helpful in any way.
But why should Ethan expect *anything* from Walky? Helpful or not? Walky is just there for the pizza. He doesn’t owe Ethan attention, a helpful reaction, or anything at all really. Why does everyone seem to think Walky was supposed to have a supportive and caring reaction? He doesn’t really care and just wants to eat his pizza.
But… by this point only Danny doesn’t see through Ethan’s closet. So indeed, only stupid people.
It’s a matter of Ethan being a protagonist in a comedy – hence inept by design and played for endearment and laughs.
As the last panel shows, it is helpful – again because the situation isn’t realistic, neither is the reaction => both are created in order to resolve the issue at hand in a pleasing manner for all involved and to de-dramatize a potentially touchy issue.
This is done for Ethan’s benefit as well, in order to move his personal arch along it’s intended path while minimizing traumatic moments (at least in this case).
This would be a very different comic if such light-heated moments would be acted out in all seriousness.
@TerribleName A lot of the time when you’re in the closet it’s so you can hide things behind solid non-transparent walls. Ethan wants/(thinks?) the walls of his closet are non-transparent so the expectation is that everyone around him thinks he’s straight.
The obvious exceptions being those he has already told (His Family, Amber, Mike, Joyce). His timing around confirming his sexuality to Sarah makes it hard to determine if he’s back in the closet yet, because it’s after telling Mike he wished he had kept his mouth shut, and before telling Amber that’s he wants to be in control of his identity.
Your personal reaction isn’t really Walky’s or similar people’s business, now is it? What they need to be concerned with is weather or not they are being a decent human being. Personal reactions are just that – personal. They vary wildly. No one should be held host age to how you or I feel about a certain topic. The only thing that matters is that they’re being decent with you (ie: not malicious). How you interpret the finer nuances is a separate matter, one that often they have no business with.
I didn’t say that assholes will find ways to make you face homophobic bigotry, but there’s plenty other things they can and will do if they don’t like the look of your face. Have you tried being fat while in school, for example? Expect beatings on a regular basis in certain schools. Assholes will be assholes to you if they feel like it. Yes, they have more ammo and usually more will to do it towards gay/trans/other people but my point stands – if they dislike you, they’ll find a way to bully/harass/etc you if it’s in their nature.
There’s also the fact that these days you’re likely to find people that will stand up for/with you – at least that’s the case in many European countries and swaths of the US.
Clearly the Right Answer in this case is whatever the comic itself says about Ethan’s reaction. Word Of God and all that. The last panel pretty much says it all, unless a drastic tone shift occurs in the next comic.
I wasn’t being condescending. I simply disagreed with what was sed and explained why. Contrarian perhaps, but that would imply what I was opposing was the most popular opinion, which isn’t something I can or want to gauge here.
‘You are a nobody, no one cares what you do. If you died tomorrow, most of your classmates wouldn’t notice.’
This is another true thing he could have said that could technically be daid non maliciously. It remains a cruel thing to say, unacceptable by most, and my standards. Weither it’s insensitive or malicious doesn’t matter, it is an asshole thing to say. And miraculously having a positive outcome doesn’t change that.
This is a comic that has addressed rape and PTSD. It goes for realism most of the time, especially regarding emotional reactions. Walky has been called out many times for his behavior, even by Dorothy. He is 18, and he is being a smug prick. Did you want to argue this?
“If you died tomorrow, most of your classmates wouldn’t notice” – Awfully un-human of them, and not something that’s true to life. I have had classmates that died and I’ve heard about it from others in my former class, years and years later, after we lost touch.
Most humans would care, despite what you’re implying. Taking that into account, I’d say your example here is untrue and malicious.
“Weither it’s insensitive or malicious doesn’t matter”- I fundamentally disagree. It’s precisely what matters most, and exactly what makes an asshole, an asshole; as opposed to a well-meaning but misguided person or a completely neutral person.
Yes, the comic has a serious bent. It also has a comical one. They intertwine as is appropriate, hence what we have here. This isn’t 100% serious, nor is it 100% comical – it is a mix of the two. And yes, that does excuse Walky to a great extent here.
Plus, as I stated before in other comments – they’re not friends and in no way is Walky being malicious here.
Dorothy is Walky’s foil. I’d expect nothing less of her. I also never sed he’s immune to criticism – simply that he’s necessarily the way he is to give a more comedic tone when he’s around. He may grow as a person, but he will always be Walky, as Mike will always be Milke, fundamentally (at least that’s my best guess as to the future).
Yes, I would argue against him being a smug prick.
He’s only being smug here, not a prick.
At this point ur straight up at the stage of homophobia & transphobia denialism. Guess what, u can be a fat kid in school, & also gay. & also a girl. & also trans. & also of color. And i know this is shocking, but, being all a these things, u will weirdly face More bullying & violence & harassment than, say, all the other fat cishet white kids. Like, significantly more. Life alteringly more.
Also, I don’t give two shits about Word Of God. That’s the entire point of being critical of media u consume. This ain’t my god, and I’m not obligated to take him at his word
“At this point ur straight up at the stage of homophobia & transphobia denialism.” – No, I’m not. I’m stating there are parallels to other forms of discrimination and that someone that has violent tendencies and doesn’t like you, will FIND reasons to hurt you regardless of what you do or are. I’m stating that for some people, issues such as gender or looks are simply excuses they want in order to act out their anger issues onto people.
There are certainly also the kind of people that will be triggered by say, transfobia more then other things, but from what I’ve seen in my life I can state that most violent bullies search for reasons to bully you – anything to get their jollies. It’s far fewer people that have a deep hatered for LGBT’s and far more that are simply full of hatered and bile, looking for excuses to vent their violence onto others.
In short, assholes will be assholes to anyone they feel like/anyone they don’t fear. You’re not their only target. You have allies. You do have laws specifically protecting you, and organizations that will help. It’s not all bleak (it’s not all sunny either, but do I really need to state the obvious?).
“u will weirdly face More bullying & violence & harassment than, say, all the other fat cishet white kids” – So now you’re practicing what you where accusing me off previously – dismissing the severity of trials faced by one group in order to extoll the tribulations of another one.
See, this really depends on the school in question, not to mention the country/society you’re in. And on the teachers. You should take into account that being “a fat kid in school, & also gay. & also a girl. & also trans. & also of color” would probably sway teachers to your defense in a much more serious manner then if you where a white fat kid.
You should also consider that where I’m from I have almost never seen a girl being bullied – and there was a particularly corpulent one in my class. Marginalized yes, but never assaulted. Since she was a girl, no one openly bullied her – because in the society at the time, at least in my area, that would have been a very serious offense.
Much more so then bullying a fat male child – no one cared if you did that; it was just considered ‘horseplay’.
Perhaps be more careful when dismissing the hardships others have been through, lest your own be taken as lightly.
I never sed LGBT’s had it easy – I stated quite the opposite; simply that they have means to defend themselves with, and
should do so – also that they’ll pull through, that… to use a tired but well-meaning phrase “it gets better”.
“Like, significantly more.” isn’t as likely as you’d think; though I’m not saying there aren’t those worse off then myself, but that’s a given for anyone – there’s always someone wor
se off then yourself. What’s most important (at least as far as my opinion is concerned) is that we grow as stronger and better human beings from these negative experiences.
Word of God means the author’s word is always true regarding his own work. You -are- obligated to take him at his word, since it’s his word you’re reading; the entire reality here is his ‘word’.
He may not be your god, but for all intents and purposes it is the character’s omnipotent ‘god’ – as a matter of fact, he’s also the driving force behind their actions (though you’ll eventually have characters develop ‘minds of their own’ in certain stories – here too).
Yes, criticism is valid and important but what you can’t, reasonably state, is that ‘reaction/feeling x is wrong, it should be reaction/feeling y this character should be feeling’ – because the author knows his characters better then anyone, since he’s the one crating them.
Meaning that if he says someone feels a certain way, it is so (why is a whole separate matter).
In this case, preliminary WoG says it did Ethan good – so that will color my reaction to it.
Of course, there’s a big debate over such matters at times – see George Lucas and his creations, or others before him. But I, for one, accept it as gospel most of the time (funny considering I’m a agnostic atheist irl).
at this point the reply button just doesn’t appear next to ur name… and i take this as a sign from god to engage u no further. which is fortunate tbh bc i literally have not and do not want to read ur huge ass reply at all
That’s a new standard of measurement: “scores free gay pizza smart.” Unfortunately, to attain this level you apparently have to act like a total douchebag…
And dress like a five year old who can dress themselves “all by themselves” as well.
Ok, someone help me out. What is Joyce freaking out about??
This is only a guess but I think it’s a few things:
1) Ethan is freaking out and shouting about his sexuality; it’s embarrassing to be around him in this mood (much as she found it embarrassing to be around Becky when she was in a similar mood);
2) I think that she’s upset with herself with the realisation that she effectively broke Ethan’s confidence with her poorly-disguised plea to Dorothy for help;
3) Walky is making her really mad right now.
4) Dorothy knows she tried to de-gay Ethan.
Joyce doesn’t want to lose Dorothy since she started the relationship with Ethan to try and make him straight.
Context here: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/lose/
It takes a real genius to enter a meeting anyone can go to.
Genius McPants.
Has anyone asked him about his homework?
I’m waiting for someone to yell back “we’re all gay here, genius !”
(yes, I am aware it is not the case)
I feel I should bring up a better alternative to someone coming out compared to what Walky is doing.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/bisexual/#comments
Now, obviously there’s significant difference between Walky being only a casual acquaintance to Ethan and Danny and Dorothy being longtime friends and having a relationship, but how each deals with their recipient is significant. When Dorothy goes “And?” she’s not playing off Danny’s fears and worries as if they aren’t a big deal (because to suggest otherwise, while I understand why someone would, invalidates the emotion of the one trying to come out to you) but instead trying to prompt him for more info so she can help him out. She clearly understands that Danny is struggling giving her this information so she tries to normalize his behaviour; “You can like boys and girls”, and in the next strips she makes an effort to get Danny to seek someone else out since she feels she doesn’t know enough to fully help Danny out.
I know Walky isn’t as emotive and informed about LGBT issues as Dorothy probably is, but some base empathy would not kill him.
some base empathy would probably kill him
I wonder if he’s explode or implode…
“Fine, okay, I’m gay!”
“Hoooraaaaaaaaaaaay!”
So… is Ethan European in this universe? 😛
[…]
Walky:
Gay, or too respectful?
He never touches Joyce.
Someone else:
Though between her past and gender
How’d we know which one’s the cause?
Walky: (music stops, spoken a bit awkwardly) right…
The True Genius is above such mundane matters as putting on clothes attentively.
At least this time, he’s (presumably) not hanging out of his pants with his roommate’s mother insisting upon giving him a hug.