I disagree with your statement. I feel Malaya could really use a beating right about now.
Are either in the right? Now. I think they’re both in the wrong. I still dislike how Malaya burned the olive branch that Sal went against her normal self to offer.
*re-reads last 2 pages* Yeah, Sal did offer a truce, but she also made it pretty obvious she wasn’t entirely happy about it, then Malaya just didn’t even try being nice.
I’d say both are somewhat in the wrong, But at least Sal was TRYING to be nice. Malaya just just being a pain.
Wondering if I’m going to find any posts below suggesting they use a wading pool of jelly (Jello I think the Americans call it) & bikinis to sort their problems out…
Malaya didn’t try to be nice because Sal has been openly contemptuous of her for as long as they’ve known her, Malaya owes her shit, and her perceived attempt at “reaching out” is just another way for Sal to insert herself between Malaya and Marcie.
Malaya isn’t nice to pretty much anyone besides Marcie. I think that’s why I’m sticking up with Sal right now. Both are in the wrong, but Marcie has a solid history of trying to fight people who can probably kick her butt. It’s like a Chihuahua trying to fight a German Shepherd, proving the adage that ‘it’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog’ doesn’t ALWAYS work. Bravado and aggressiveness can only carry you so far before you bump into someone who’s going to hospitalize you. I think that’s why Marcie was glaring at Sal. She may have only seen Malaya hit Sal, but she knows what was just about to happen, so she’s addressing the most dangerous of the two.
On fire already? No. Not quite, from my view. Sharpened into a skewer preemptively and wrapped in barbed wire? Most certainly, but from what I know of Sal(this being the only Willis comic I read), that’s being as nice as she’s capable of.
She has a friend. One friend. *A* friend. Her friend is now spending time with someone else.
She doesn’t like it and doesn’t know how to handle this situation as it probably never came up before.
So, she tries to make nice as best as her emotional immaturity is capable of, for a selfless reason(also against the grain of her character), for the sake of a person she considers her only friend.
Re reading all pages tagged Malaya, I feel my opinion of only confirmed, and they both know that they each are grating. I stand by my assessment of the situation.
Re reading all the pages tagged with Malaya, Sal has never been nice to Malaya or tried in any way what so ever. Malaya has shown she doesn’t care, and Sal has shown that she actively doesn’t like Malaya. I’m not convinced we’re reading the same comic here.
If a person is a monster, and on one day decides to be slightly less of a monster to you, it does not mean you need to accept them being a monster to you *at all.*
I like Sal and have never really liked Malaya, but Malaya did nothing wrong in this scene. Sal issued an insulting invitation, added insult to the pre-existing insult. Threatened with violence and then *laid her hands on Malaya in anger.*
So just because someone has very few friends someone else is supposed to accept being called a cumstain etc? No one is obligated to put up with other people’s bullshit because they’re “trying” to be diplomatic. Sal needs to learn that if there’s something she wants, she doesn’t get to just take it.
There’s a difference between understanding why someone does something and condoning it.
We can agree that, memetic badassery aside, Sal isn’t a very nice person. She’s certainly better than she used to be (considering that ‘robbing a convenience store’ was her starting point), but she still isn’t very nice. From her point of view, this was Sal trying to be nice to someone she actively doesn’t like and Malaya spitting in her face. Things escalated from there.
If I had to guess, what Sal would normally do here is ignore Malaya and have nothing to do with her. Problem is she can’t because, for reasons that Sal can’t understand, Marcie likes her.
Does that change the fact that this was a really bad attempt at being nice? Malaya is hardly innocent here, but no, it doesn’t. It just says that Sal sucks at being nice to people she doesn’t like and can be a violent bongo sometimes.
Malaya has absolutely no reason to give a shit about Sal’s past or how it reflects her current attempts at being better, though. None of those things are something Malaya knows, and Malaya getting pissed off at the way Sal’s treating her isn’t really something Malaya’s doing wrong. Is Malaya also a terrible person? Yes. Doesn’t make any of this alright.
I wouldn’t have posted if it wasn’t for Screwball saying Sal was trying to be nice, and imply that Malaya’s even worse for not accepting it.
I’m not seeing that at all. Sal was wrong to initiate the conversation in the manner that she did. There was no trying to be nice. There was no olive branch. There was I hate you and maybe if I hang out with you and you don’t speak too much, I will learn to -tolerate- your existence.
I’d be pretty ticked off too if someone asked me to show up somewhere and did that. I’d at least tell them off, and god help them if they laid a hand on me because of it.
If anyone needed a punch in the face in this, it was Sal. And damn, but Malaya doesn’t play when she hits, does she? Uppercut and then a knee to the abdomen.
I read that Malaya is based on a Filipino woman. All I have to say about this is that if you don’t like or understand it, you have probably
never met a Filipino-American woman. It will make TOTAL SENSE once you do.
Daniel the Human has worked with someone possibly of that decent. She had a bad habit of demanding to know why a customer was staring at her, from the customer who was supposedly staring at her. He says there are others of Filipino decent who are nice, but that woman was not nice to anyone…
What if we know a woman of Filipino descent, and it still doesn’t explain Malaya’s jerkiness at all? (Since Malaya is presumably an individual and all that) I’m confused.
What does help explain Malaya’s jerkiness is the fact that Sal approached her with quite a bit of contempt, and was being pretty condescending.
The one where she got her ass handed to her twice, once after she took a cheap shot at A-G while two friends were holding her down? Yeah, that’s an argument to fear the little brat.
This might just be me, but after seeing what Amber/Amazi-Girl can do to a full grown man I don’t think she was actually trying to hurt Malaya in that fight.
Or Malaya is used to getting hit. Being a full-grown!whatever has no bearing on whether or not you’re able to take a hit. It’s experience with pain that teaches your body how to react. Someone who knows to hit first-ask questions later the moment someone physically threatens them, instead of the instinctive reaction of shock/immobility, like Malaya just did, is someone who’s been hit before, multiple times, and has learned to stop having that “shock” reaction.
When this bit started 2 days ago, Sal said she was going to TRY to be friends with Malaya. That said, Malaya heard Sal call her a cumstain, & Malaya’s been hostile ever since, despite Sal’s offer of a truce. Looks to me like Sal was trying to hold back & be nice, but Malaya just has not played along at all…
Yeah, I’ve been reading the comic since it started. I was being derisive. Sal never tried at all with Malaya. She’s been aggressive and mean to her from the get-go, and when she condescends to “try and be friends” she makes it sound like a Herculean task that she has to try and get along with Malaya for Marcie’s sake, and acts like Malaya should be grateful that Sal is even acknowledging her. She insults her before she even knows Malaya is there, and behaves as though Malaya is the one out of line for NOT putting up with Sal’s BS. When Sal physically threatens Malaya, Malaya fights back, and she shouldn’t be sorry for it in this case.
Sal never had any intention of actually making an effort.
Actually, no. Malaya threatened an ass kicking in response to being called a cumstain. That was actually the first threat of violence here, although Sal opened things with an insult. Not an intentional insult, either – it was an overheard remark while she was talking to herself, not something she said deliberately to Malaya’s face.
Which isn’t better, really, but this whole arc has been about two people who don’t have a clue how to avoid escalating a confrontation.
Seriously. We know that Sal’s “trying” to make peace here. But why should Malaya know that? Because Sal says so? News flash, people lie. And given how combative and dismissive Sal’s been to Malaya in the past, and has been here, there’s no reason for Malaya to think this is a genuine offer of peace instead of some new way to try and drive her off.
I’m not sure Malaya is concerned with whether Sal is being sincere or not. I get the impression that if Sal had approached her politely, without the unnecessary insults, it wouldn’t have made much of a difference, either. Malaya doesn’t like Sal, doesn’t care about her opinion, and isn’t interested in “peace.’
Good for her, imo. Even if Sal were the most considerate, respectful, undeniably awesome person on the planet, Malaya would still have every right to deny an offer of friendship that doesn’t interest her.
Missing the point. What matters is what Marcie saw and heard. If she missed yesterday’s strip, Sal comes off looking much better and Malaya looks like more like she’s over-reacting.
Well, maybe. She’s between them and she can only look at one of them at a time. The medium forces us to see everything in snapshots. Doubt she’s thrilled with either of them. That was her new friend beating on her childhood friend there, you know.
Also it’s possible that from what she knows of Sal and what she knows of Malaya, she felt that Sal was the one who should know better, even if she wasn’t the one Marcie saw doing anything wrong.
HORRIBLE QUESTION. Stupid question! Sal should not be trying to pull the wool over Marcie’s eyes, or massage the truth based on what she thinks Marcie might have seen. Lying right now would be a GREAT way to destroy their friendship.
Marcie is her FRIEND, in her mind her ONLY friend (not true, but your headspace is your own). She should be HONEST with her.
Maybe. I don’t think Sal would fight back, if Marcie decided to throw down with her. Malaya, OTOH, doesn’t care what anyone thinks of her (or, at least, she wants everyone to think that), and she can throw a good punch.
Well what I’ve learned is that… I actually can’t think of many of Sal’s good qualities. Take away her cool factor and looking at her objectively, what does she have? She’s nicer to Joyce and Danny than we’d expect, but aside from being slightly under the level of ‘good person’ that we’ve come to expect of society in general, she doesn’t have much good going for her, does she?
We feel for her. She’s been through a lot of crap which left her a little broken. I think we want her to find some measure of happiness because of that. It’s very real, very believable.
I think the point of her character (at this point) is that, like Billie and Walky, she’s discovering that the qualities that got her through highschool aren’t going to get her through college. It’s character growth–in her case, painful character growth.
She understands how to put in effort into what she’s doing, when effort can be expressed as hard work. It’s part of the point of college – and that’s a test she’s passed, and that Walky hasn’t. I genuinely admire her work ethic, as someone with none of her own. She’s generally been friendly, and I respect her lack of a lot of hangups. And while being supportive of Carla is a thing that we ‘should’ be able to expect from good people in society, well, it ain’t like we often get it. The Willisverse has been pretty great on the whole, sure, but society isn’t.
That, *and she’s entertaining*. She’s a character – that’s her job.
Even if she were a real person, she isn’t obligated to be an excellent person in every way, because at some level, we exist for ourselves.
Well stated. I see more in her relationship with Carla than just ‘supporting the fringe character’, though – Carla talks sense to her, and is herself non-threatening and non-judgemental. All while pretending to not really care. I think Sal needs that, a lot.
looking objectively what does anyone have going for them? one pile of particles is very much the same as any other pile of particles and Sal doesn’t even have that going for her because objectively we aren’t even talking about a person but rather a fictional construct.
in a very real sense we cannot look at her objectively because she is not even an object but merely an Idea, the only way we can view her is through the emotional lens of our imaginations because that is the only place that ‘Sal’ can be said to exist.
Eh, most people don’t actually know their accurate cup size. A certain size for one company isn’t guaranteed to be the same size at another company, despite there being an actual formula to figure out measurements. And because of that formula, if a 34C is a little too big (for example) the next size to try would actually be a 34B. But I suppose there could be some vanity to it: 34C implies you’re thinner and have bigger boobs when compared to a 34B. Basically, I don’t know any adults who lie about their bra size, it’s much more likely to not know ones true size. Going to different stores on the same day and getting measured often results in different answers, even!
I have at least one friend who very definitely lies about hers. Actress, insists that inflating her cup size helps her land jobs. Which seems absurd considering she mostly does corporate training vidoes these days, but the older I get the more I realize absurdity is the norm, not the exception.
Have you ever heard the song “Dance 10, Looks 3”, which is the polite name, from “A Chorus Line”? It talks EXACTLY about this, specifically how plastic surgery allowed a talented dancer to start getting jobs. And I apologize in advance for the Bad Language appearing in this comment.
Tits and ass
Had the bingo-bongos done
Suddenly I’m getting national tours
Tits and ass won’t get you jobs
Unless they’re yours
One of my favorite shows, actually. I do think the principle that song espouses applies more to stage shows and movies than training vidoes, though. Or at least I’d like to think so – having to get implants to nab a role an HR piece about sexual harassment would be a little too ironic for my tastes.
Like I see where you’re coming from Rich, and I apologize to anyone offended by my liberal use of the work stacked, but we’re having a pretty non-sexualized, non-judgmental discussion about parts of people’s bodies that are readily visible, and need to be de-sexualized anyways.
Human female cup sizes are easier to guess than male equipment sizes. Not to mention sometimes men’s pants bunch in such a way that makes their equipment look larger than it is. Got chased around the place for waking Daniel the Human while examining this occurrence. Apparently I still need to learn about something called “personal boundaries”. I get told that from time to time…
She wears a dinosaur hat and has crippling social anxiety. She doesn’t really strike me as a fully matured individual, a lot like Joyce and her…well, everything.
Apparently I can’t be anything else, judging from the other comments down there.
I mean, you could read into it that I meant Dina had some issues to work through before she can function completely in society [which is what I meant, though deviating from physical appearance was my own fault], but no, let’s all put on our Offended Pants.
Heh, insulting Dina is never a good idea around here.
On a more serious note, having a condition like Asperger’s isn’t a matter of being immature – it has more to do with just being different. Dina is never going to ‘grow out’ of this – she’ll just learn coping mechanisms (coat over head, for instance), and get a better grasp on how to interact with others. So, you’re right that Dina has issues to work out, but it’s not quite the same as just being immature (Walky is the poster child for the latter case).
As for people taking offense, that’s probably because some of them are in the same boat as Dina, and are tired of being treated like children, so they react on behalf of a fictional character.
Social anxiety does not make you an immature individual.
I have crippling anxiety that keeps me from walking out of the house without throwing up sometimes, but I can put adults in their places for acting like children, even if they’re 40 years older. It’s just a primitive characteristic, it’s not like we’re mentally handicapped.
And I use a Hello Kitty cup and have panic attacks. Dina’s fine, even with social anxiety (which I wouldn’t say is crippling for her, she just doesn’t like crowds, she came to the party which is more than I could have done). These are freaking college students, they all have growing up to do. Even the more mature ones like Dorothy still have things to learn.
Dina is a women, an adult women, who is trying to expand her current boundaries. That speaks of being mature to me.
Dina has fewer issues than most of the other characters and is arguably more mature than them as well, seeing as she’s accurately determined what her weak points are and begun improving them.
That still doesn’t change her physical development level. I mean, she could have children (and would probably be an excellent parent) if she had any desire to do so. You might think of her as emotionally immature, but she’s an adult, physically.
See, I was going to try to write out this whole attempt at being mature, and explaining to The Thing why they were being offensive, but your comment sums up the point so nicely.
I’m twenty-six years old, and people still treat me like a child. I have an anxiety disorder as well, and even doctors who know my age treat me like I’m ten.
Dina is a fully-functioning adult. Just because she’s somewhat flat-chested and likes her hat and cereal doesn’t make her any less of an adult. It’s insulting as fuck.
Dina’s social anxiety isn’t crippling. In fact, she’s more outgoing than Amber is. She doesn’t have a lot of confidence in her social skills, and that’s mostly due to the fact that she has a hard time relating to others. It’s mostly that Dina’s quiet-natured and has autism. Ethan registered it as social anxiety, but she was going through sensory overload.
Huh, everyone in this string of replies so far has called you out on one aspect while at the same time ignoring the other aspect of your comment.
Dina is little more than a big girl as opposed to a woman, as her actions and words have thus far shown. She seems to have the withdrawn, introverted maturity of an early high school student.
I just can’t get over the replies that are as childish as it gets, saying you’re being an ass and just saying “fuck you”.
Well, the original comment was primarily about appearance (since it was actually about characters cup sizes). Even so, the second one points out her dinosaur hat (how dare someone wear something they like as an adult) and her social anxiety (adults never have that). Finally, it ends with comparing Dina’s maturity to one other character, ignoring that there pretty much isn’t a college aged character in this comic that isn’t still in the process of maturing (DUMBing of Age, y’know?). Funnily enough, most people continue growing emotionally and mentally most of their lives and are constantly evolving (wasn’t there a whole Leslie comic about this?).
Anyhow, my original comment (which admittedly didn’t go into much detail) was mostly just that it’s kinda mean to decide someone doesn’t qualify as an adult, especially based on appearance alone (which is all the first comment brought up).
All excellent points, but my comment was less about Dina and more about the number of people being blatantly childish in response to a comment shit Dina’s maturity level.
Dina’s also got a plan for her adult life, or seems to. That’s way more than we can say for Danny – but we’re coded to accept Danny’s continued growing up, and for good reason – Danny is an adult with more shit to figure out (Including ‘what the fuck am I gonna do with my life’). You could fairly call Dina *and the other characters* kids, but to single out Dina by reasoning of her appearance, and her difficulty interacting with lots of people, is kinda fucked up. She’s legally an adult, who has some growing up to do. Who doesn’t? I know 60 year olds hwo need to grow up in some respects – they’re still adults.
Yes. She’s 18. Of course she’s immature. So is everyone else on the cast page. None of this makes Dina, in particular, a child.
And no, give that many of the posters in question have similar anxieties, or know those who do… there’s nothing childish in ‘fuck you.’ Impatient, maybe, but it’s a pretty valid response.
Not making a tone argument, my post in this string was meant to call out people who respond to allegations of immaturity by one person’s view point by literally saying “Don’t be an ass” and “Wow Fuck You”. Every single character in this comic, by definition, are immature, legal adult or no.
They’re aspects that make up part of a whole. Nobody is a single trait in a vacuum. Dina is an immature person. Whether it comes from lack of experience and wisdom or lack of socializing, she is still immature. It’s not a negative thing in her case, merely a trait.
If you could be less of an ass, it’d be appreciated.
I don’t understand what breast size has to do with maturity. Breasts exist for one purpose and one purpose only: The feeding of said person’s offspring. The size of the breast does not matter, as long as it has working milk ducts. Since Dina is post pubescent, I am assuming that her breasts are fully functioning. Though, some people are born with breast anomalies, (breasts that do not function the way nature hoped they would) but that doesn’t make their bodies any less mature.
Attempting to correlate breasts with mental health does not make sense. I believe that Dina is mentally mature. She just isn’t socially mature. And that’s fine. But that has nothing to do with her body.
Again, breast size has nothing to do with maturity. Some breasts continue to look very prepubescent, but are still able to feed offspring.
kind of late , but Dina has never displayed symptoms of Social Anxiety.
Ethan misread her symptoms because this is how Amber reacted , and Amber has/ had social anxiety.
Socially Dina has been mostly fearless except save for Ruthless , just non-comprehending.
Dinas problems are cognitive processing, not emotional . She is actually a very level-headed person.
We know from canon she is “non-neurotypical”
Cognitive-Sensory processing Disorders are very common in people in ASD, including facial recognition. Willis telegraphed this . She isnt under the coat because she is having negative emotions. Its the opposite.
Shes having a wonderful time and overtaxed her ability to process other people and their faces.
( She has stated a number of times she in enjoying herself and wants to stay. She is an adult, we should take her as her word . )
“There is growing evidence, based on both research and personal reports, that many autistic individuals see their world in a maladaptive, dysfunctional manner. Researchers at U.C.L.A. and the University of Utah have found evidence of abnormal retinal activity in autistic individuals. Additionally, there are many visual problems which are often associated with autism, such as reliance on peripheral vision; tunnel vision; hypersensitivity to light; ..”
“Some of the symptoms are: (1) Sensory Overload caused by bright lights, fluorescent lights, and sunlight. Lighting is stressful; the body reacts as if it is being attacked or bombarded, resulting in negative biochemical changes. These can result in headaches, anxiety, and other physical symptoms. (2) Environmental Distortions, when the individual sees the world in a distorted fashion, so that objects appear as blurry, moving, shifting, changing, or even disappearing. People might look frightening, stairs might be seen as a slide without steps, and walls and floors might appear to swing and sway. This creates problems with sustained attention, eye contact, gross and small motor coordination, ability to interpret facial expressions, and poor social skills. ”
As far as social immaturity you have confused cause and effect.
She has shown evidence of a Theory-of-Mind disorder common in ASD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind
That means she has trouble modeling how other people think feel and react in her head. Like most of us she started with the premise that most people think like her. The problem is that this is wrong, since she is non-neurotypical. Until recently this has held back her social interaction
This creates a catch-22. Its hard to figure out how people are different from you , without adequate Theory-of-mind brain processing. I’m also told its exhaustive manually.
Shes only recently started to figure this out, and see how others see her , and factor this in. That’s actually a huge step and a sign of maturity.
Demeaning, yes, but she simply isn’t drawn to look like an 18 year old woman. Raidah and company thought she was 12, and Robin’s younger sister probably did as well. Part of it is the signature hat. Take that off for once and she’d probably look more like an adult and less like a middle schooler.
I’m not trying to be antagonistic, but I know a couple women who have very similar builds to Dina’s, and they are in their early to mid twenties (22 and 25) and likely won’t be growing anymore.
Yep, and I can tell you that they get pretty damn tired of being treated like children – you can forget about “it’s a compliment to think you’re younger than you are”, because they sure as hell don’t think so.
Again, it’s partly, maybe even mostly the hat that makes her look young. That’s not part of her physique unless the damn thing’s grown roots into her brain or something. I’m well aware that short, slender women tend to have their ages underestimated, and I’m not damn fool enough to make assumptions about real people’s ages one way or the other. I’ve been getting mistaken for 10 years older than I am since late high school, and that’s even less fun than getting carded when you’re 30.
People still mistook me for a highschooler even after I had a kid. I am even now about the size of your average 8th grader. Some grown-ups are small, but I’m still a grown up, not a child.
Since the original question was about character dimensions, wouldn’t it be natural that a character with slight bodily proportions would have, well, slight bodily proportions?
Dina is fictional, and her look is a deliberate design decision by Willis. I cannot hurt her feelings, and I’m not going to pretend she looks the same age as the other freshmen when it’s been made into a recurring plot point several times already. Perhaps that’s reinforcing the unfair stereotype of “short & slender = young girl” for me, but honestly, I think it’s mostly the hat. She certainly didn’t look like a kid to me in the Walkyverse. Her last appearance in Shortpacked makes her look like an adult.
No one is saying she looks like the other freshmen. People are pointing out that deciding the maturity of someone and how you describe/treat them based on their appearance (or even their choice in clothes) is disrespectful (and especially an issue with women, who’s appearance is scrutinized severely; the whole original comment was on cup size).The deliberate choice of showcasing something like that happen to Dina may well be to point out that problematic behavior, similar to how many of the characters are being used (Joyce and religion, the twins and subtle racism, etc). It’s not a matter of offending the character, but a matter of pointing out how this happens in real life and shouldn’t.
Things like “C-cup” are pretty darn near meaningless when the people are as far away from realistic human proportions as these guys are. The differences in circumference measurements that look right on a normal human would look bizarre on a Willis human, and vice versa. It’s a stylization thing.
Yeah, well, considering how Willis attacked those of the audience who didn’t instantly recognize Becky’s hairstyle as representing something real people have rather than being a made-up comic-book stylization like Mike’s, especially early on when it kept switching directions (he’s been better about this lately), I don’t think your argument is really valid.
Based on your other comments I can take a guess at what you mean by this. My comment does not even remotely resemble “hating on Becky” – it is simply pointing out that Willis’s art style is less realistic, particularly in the area of character hairstyles, especially Becky and Mike’s (I still have honestly no idea which direction Mike’s hair is supposed to point), than he believes it is.
Ah see context is important with your snide comment. Willis would not have done so if there people hadn’t immediately started insulting it in a completely over the top fashion. It’s an undercut, and yes, a lot of people have undercuts. He was attempting to get the audience to stop shitting on a hair style that a lot of people have. No people may not have hair that looks exactly like Becky’s. However it is an undercut. I don’t see how you couldn’t have known that unless you just don’t pay attention to women’s short hair do’s these days, which is entirely possible.
No-one provided a picture of an undercut that looks even close to Becky’s. And Mike provides an absolutely unassailable precedent for “Willis doesn’t bother even modeling hairstyles as three-dimensional shapes, let alone determining whether they are physically possible”
Which is a perfectly valid thing to do as a comic artist, to be clear. Just a bit tacky to complain when people don’t recognize what you’ve drawn a caricature of.
Now Mike’s hair, I have never seen anyone have ever. Has Willis tried to say what his hairstyle is a caricature of? I’d be curious to google those images!
I thought that was the case. I love his look. ^.^ I like to imagine him getting up super early, getting out the hair gel and hair spray and getting his look just right. It makes me giggle.
Maybe that’s what Becky’s hair looks like in your head, but it’s really not what it looks like on the page – especially in the early days when it pointed in the same direction relative to the camera no matter how her head was turned.
What’s tacky is claiming something that is fundamentally about your art is a sexist attack on a character. With Mike as an established character, it was entirely reasonable for people to assume it wasn’t intended as a depiction of a real hairstyle.
Please please please please find for me an instance of Becky’s hair behaving in the way you describe. There were no “early days” in which her post-haircut hairstyle was not asymmetrical.
And if you were attacking my art and not people with that haircut, maybe I wasn’t referring to you when I said whatever you think I said.
Mike’s hair is OBVIOUSLY NOT A REAL HAIRSTYLE. Therefore, shitting on it is fine. All of us make fun of it. I’m assuming you’re a DOA reader exclusively, but I can tell you that when Mike has appeared in the other comics, his hair is giggled about. But when there is a hairstyle that can actually be created on a real person, and you mock it, it’s gonna make people with a similar look feel bad.
As I recall, you directly quoted someone (not me) saying “nobody has hair like that”, which was in context clearly about your failure to depict a realistic hairstyle, and construed it as an attack on real readers who had undercuts. And, yes, it was always asymmetrical, but if her head turned slightly to the left or right, the hair stayed in the same spot. here’s an example. She turns her head to the left, and her eye nearly goes under her hair.
Also, seriously, you’ve got nothing to say about Mike’s hair?
“Mike’s hair is OBVIOUSLY NOT A REAL HAIRSTYLE. Therefore, shitting on it is fine.” – I’m not even shitting on it. The point is that since Willis obviously draws characters whose hairstyles aren’t realistic, therefore assuming a character’s hairstyle isn’t meant to be a real hairstyle is not shitting on it.
Maybe that’s what Becky’s hair looks like in your head, but it’s really not what it looks like on the page – especially in the early days when it pointed in the same direction relative to the camera no matter how her head was turned.
It’s a fucking undercut. It is clearly recognizable as an undercut. That’s all this was ever fucking about.
Back then, shitloads of people were saying that Becky’s new hairstyle was the epitome of ugly. Some of them were also being a bit sexist and/or homophobic about it, like “That’s not a hairstyle that women should wear” or “Does she really need to flaunt her lesbianism like that?”. Understandably, this upset people with similar hairstyles.
And then someone, who may or may not have been you, said that people shouldn’t be upset, because Becky’s hairstyle was physically impossible and didn’t actually exist.
Again: it’s a fucking undercut. When shitloads of people said it was ugly, it would be a reasonable assumption that they were talking about asymmetrical undercuts in general, not a specific asymmetrical undercut that is a perfect copy of Becky’s and behaves in exactly the same way every time forever.
You’re pulling up literally the second strip that featured Becky’s new haircut, where for a single panel it becomes extra obvious that this is a hand-drawn, stylized, 2D interpretation of the Dumbiverse, and not a photorealistic 3D model. You’re talking about the “early days” as if this was a regular occurrence back then (it wasn’t).
We are supposed to understand that everyone in DoA actually does have nostrils, even if they’re consistently drawn without them. We are supposed to understand that nobody’s head has actually shrunk, even if they’re drawn smaller now than five years ago. And we are supposed to understand that Becky has a perfectly normal undercut that obeys the laws of physics, even if a tiny minority of panels seem to contradict the vast majority.
This is a bit of a tangent but HOLY SHIT it’s called an undercut! I’ve been trying to get my hair cut correctly forever and I never had a name for the style – I would just go to the stylist and try to explain and then give up after 3 hours of saying, “No, shorter in the back, I really mean it.” These links are the best ever!!!
( Screw the Haters. Its Looks awesome on Becky. This is how I imagined it when I first saw it, and I never heard of an undercut before! So, it isnt your art. They are looking at your comic wrong. And They have shitty taste in womens haircuts.
But I hope the haters dont lock you into never letting Becky play with this style.
Yeah, the cut you gave her is great. There are so many fun ways becky can Play with it on a daily basis. I like to imagine her using it, to make it even more Becky.
Would Becky add a few tasteful Green stripes to her Bangs to shock joyce?
( i bet she would ) .
I’m giving you my opinion because you should know in this sea of hate youve gotten , some of us think its awesome.
More to the point, youve drawn good-story telling with it
This cut really does embody her brashness , and comfort in her own skin.
( Why would Becky get a conformist haircut now?
Thats whats unrealistic.
Joyce is supposed to over-react to the cut— shes a formerly sheltered home-schooled Christian fundamentalist. Seems like a large vocal section of the fandom is just as sheltered to Geometric hairstyles. Its a full blown moral panic )
I made this mistake myself a while back when Willis made a twitter post about the reaction to her haircut, because I could not possibly believe that anyone could be so awful as to hate on someone just for a haircut, so “logically” Willis was just bashing anyone who disliked Becky.
And it turned out that, no really, there were commenters talking about how they stopped feeling sympathy for Becky because of her haircut. That was a genuine thing put in the comment section.
Sal?
Sal has a very lean athletic build. A lean athletic body,will reduce all bodyfat overall ,including breasts. But they may have a bigger contrast.
I think Sal carries an ample A. She carrys it well.
I think a lot of minor characters are A and Bs
Its a classic mistake to look at body-parts separate from the body they are on. Aesthetically it always matters more how it looks put-together on a person , not taken in isolation. And your attitude toward your body counts much more. Confidence, and feeling like you belong in your own skin, trumps flawculture.
I have 3 sisters and growing up they would always lineup and compare random parts as “too big”, “too small” nose,legs , arms, breasts, ass.. you name it. Its easy to get sucked into that nonsense. Eventually I snapped out of it because they totally overlooked I was a Boy. ( I’m supposed to have wide muscular thighs. Thats my bodyframe, If it would be weird if I didnt. Im not trying to get on vogue. )
Its nonsense because cross-comparing is meaningless . What matters is how it fits on you. Which is usually just fine.
Thats how a person sees a minor flaw that isnt even there, get plastic surgery to “fix” the problem. Then they’ve upset the whole natural aesthetic balance they possessed, and end up getting 10 more unnecessary surgeries .
I think most men are much happier with their lady’s lovers bodies, than the owners are. When men talk in private about their ladies bodies, its usually to complement.
Breasts aren’t just fat, and no, athletic body types don’t always have small breasts. Because part of it is HORMONES. I have fluctuated weight up and down, with no (real) change to my cup size.
Speaking of which, “A” is meaningless in a vacuum. I guarantee Sal isn’t an actual A, precisely because she has a small frame, and cup sizes are relative. 30G is 32F is 34E is 36D is 38C. If she WOULD be a 36A but has a 30 or 28 ribcage, then she’s going to be more like 30D or 28E.
Also, as a queer woman, men’s appreciation of my body matters exactly 0% to me, and I wish society in general would stop trying to reassure women that our low self-esteem, caused by society sucking, can be or should be soothed/fixed by random dudes telling Cosmo they think women look prettier without makeup.
LMFAO, is that why I’m 31 and flat chested? Because I haven’t matured mentally? Damn, I didn’t know there was a correlation there. Look out, world, I’m gonna start doing housework. Maybe I’ll grow bewbs
Everyone else has already addressed the many problems with this comment so I will just add that there’s no such thing as a “C cup” in a vacuum. Cup sizes are relative to bra bands. The bigger the band, the smaller the letter that gets assigned to the very same amount of breast tissue.
Let’s say Sal is a 28/30 band size to Billie’s 38. (I think Billie has a larger frame than Sal, I’d say she was a 32 or 34 at her skinniest.) Billie’s breasts are visibly larger, but they might actually share a cup size — because a 30D is the same volume as a 38A. Billie as a 38D or DD is the same or virtually the same letter, but four or five times the tissue.
Also, as a rich woman, Billie may be the only girl wearing the correct bra size. Victoria Secret tends to squeeze you into what they carry, which stops at DDDD/”G”, by putting you in your “sister” size of a few band sizes up and a few cup sizes down. Billie probably does most of her shopping at higher-end places, where you’re more likely to be sized correctly and then put into European or UK bras which have on average more cup sizes available.
It’s not fool proof — high end lingerie designers and stores suffer from the same “we only want to cater to model-proportioned women” defect as the rest of the fashion world, so even stores like Nordstrom and Macy’s (high upper middle class prices) stock only a little of the bigger-cups. There’s definitely a societal association where larger breasts = fake, tacky, trashy. But Bille is still more likely than average to be correctly sized.
Anyway the long and short of this is that Marcie is probably about a D, because her band is 40/42; but characters like Dorothy and Sal are probably ALSO D’s because they’re skinny. Conversely, Joyce might be a C, because she’s probably a 34 or so. (If she’s more like 32, then D again.)
I was about to say, “Well, she IS blind,” before I realized she’s deaf. If you’re wondering how I got that confused; in my defense, I AM watching Daredevil right now. Been doing a Netflix marathon.
Also, I’m fully aware that blind people put their clothes on correctly.
Hmmm. Willis says not deaf. Doesn’t say mute, not deaf. Way to encourage whoever it was yesterday that was speculating that she can speak but chooses not to. Suitably evil of you.
IIRC, the last time this came up, the issue got confused by someone in the comments saying the term “mute” is somehow offensive because it allegedly implies unable to communicate rather than unable to speak, and asserting that Marcie is not mute because she can use sign language.
I am actually a little bit drunk now, and was originally trying for dry humor aimed at someone else. Reading it now, I see how the tone doesn’t come across. I’m so sorry about how insulting it reads, I was really trying to make a joke, but, well, I suck at them.
My impression from the beginning of book 5, was that Marcie was not born mute (we can see her speaking in the Sal flashback). We also know she’s not deaf. (She makes a joke to Malaya that Malaya makes her wish she was deaf). We can probably assume that’s she’s mute in the present from when Sal says that they learned sign language together because “stuff happens.”
I thought it was pretty obvious she wasn’t deaf because Sal and others OFTEN say things without signing them, and Marcie reacts or signs something that indicates she heard what was said even when they’re not facing her (so it can’t be reading lips). I do wish we could get a backstory on Marcie though, so we can learn why she stopped talking (whether it’s a physical trauma or a psychological choice). I wouldn’t even have realized she used to be able to talk if it hadn’t been for Bicycle Bill’s reminder (so thank you Bill).
Except anyone whose hung out with Malaya knows her well enough to know she doesn’t just start fights out of nowhere. Malaya’s too indifferent for that.
Trying to avoid Marcie getting mad with both of them. No matter who’s wrong or right, it’s reasonable to expect Marcie to be less than thrilled with two friends of hers seriously trying to hurt one another. “Roughhousing” is a pretty pathetic explanation, but it would have maybe gotten both of them off that hook if Malaya had played along.
President of the United States: To all the people of America, and the nations of the world, I am happy to say that we have finally reached world peace. Although fragile, and liable to break at the slightest provocation, the leaders of our world will strive to make sure that this state lasts for as long as
Malaya: FUCK THAT!!! *presses button that launches all missiles at everyone*
I won’t grow up!
(I won’t grow up!)
You son of a bongo!
(You son of a bongo!)
Even though I go to school
(Even though I go to school)
I will punch you in the face!
(Fuck your rhyming!)
It has been like this for a while, because people like to overuse derogatory words aimed at ladies far too often, and it makes the comment section slightly less horrifying.
In my case, my dislike of Malaya is because we haven’t seen much of any redeeming qualities in her. Most of the jerks and other assorted unpleasant characters in Willis’s comics that aren’t villians (and even some of them) have a bit more to them beyond “I’m an asshole!” Malaya isn’t really showing that.
Well, outside of obvious villians like Blake, there’s Mary, Malaya, Mike, Carla, and I’d even say Ruth, Sal and to a lesser extent, Roz and Billie. ‘Alpha bongo attitudes’ run rampant in this comic. Even Sarah has a lot of prickliness to weave through to get to her good parts.
Even in Shortpacked Malaya’s good side was never really shown. She and Ultra-Car were in a relationship based on mutual hate of everybody else, and the two of them could only be nice to each other. That’s not really the makings of an endearing character. The only good thing she did was stand up to Leslie, but basically Malaya is only nice to people she may have a romantic interest in, far as I can tell.
Malaya is very nice to people she likes. She was supportive of leslie, even confronted leslie’s mother over her poor treatment of her daughter after they broke up, was completely respectful of Ultra-Car’s sexuality and limitations and even changed her own behaviour to make Ultra-Car happy, encouraged Leslie to just tell Robin how she felt since she knew it was what leslie really wanted. And she’s pretty secure in who she is and doesn’t give a shit what others think about her.
She’s willing to learn another language to be able to understand Marcie. That’s at least one good quality, and I don’t think people give her enough credit for it.
Don’t forget the irony of Sal being the one to suggest she learn ASL in the first place. Wasn’t Malaya’s idea, although it might have come to her in time.
Positive qualities of Malaya.
-Marcie seems reasonable, tuff, but also compassionate. She likes Malaya, ergo.
-Malaya decided to take on some weird psycho trying to ruin their fun by herself.
-Malaya kept on going even after slamming into a car.
-Malaya is good at roller derby.
-Malaya decided to learn sign language after Sal, the bongo who was insulting her suggested she learn it. Showing she responds to helpful criticism even if it is give by bad people
-Malaya obviously doesnt like bullies
-Malaya doesnt like bullies that are full of themselves.
-Malaya doesnt need validation from other people, especially those who treat her like dirt….or cumstains
-Malaya is willing to fight any crazy angry bullies who think they have a right to force themselves into her life.
Anyone can be unlikable when you dont see much of them and they are seen opposed to a beloved character(sal). But it takes some strong empathy to enjoy the good things about someone who so far has had a target painted on their back.
Honestly, this whole incident has really endeared her to me. I’ve been waiting forever for someone to be as unimpressed by Sal’s highschool tier “too cool for school” nonsense as I am.
Malaya walked in to Sal, somebody who’s already not gotten along with her, calling her a cumstain. I wouldn’t expect anybody to be receptive to half-hearted “be my friend, you bongo” attempts at that point. Sal set the mood.
Uh, let’s not act like Sal is blameless here. Absolutely NOTHING about her behavior in this meeting indicated that she had any real desire to make nice, and Malaya was entirely within her rights to tell her to fuck off.
I am a little curious how good Malaya is, and how much of this was Sal not taking her seriously. Sal did look primed to retaliate in a big way, but we’ll never know, I guess.
I have a feeling Sal was cocky in this one, and I think that Malaya is much stronger than Sal assumes. In a knock-down, drag-out, no-holds-barred fight, I’d probably give it to Sal, but Malaya would last longer than Sal would expect.
I’d give it to Malaya. We know she can take a few solid hits and keep fighting. Until the matchup gets entirely unbalanced, that’s the more important skill for winning a fight.
The problem is Sal thought she could keep treating like Malaya badly and when Malaya refused to bend, Sal lost her temper and did what she always does; she used violence. She honestly thought Malaya was all talk, and was not expecting Malaya to lash out physically in defense and do it well. Malaya hitting Sal so quickly speaks of experience, and if Marcie hadn’t broken them up, I think they both would have ended up worse for wear.
We’ve seen Amazi-Girl (mostly) beating up bros she finds up to stuff, and usually getting the drop on them. Mike hits people he can reasonably expect not to hit him back, woo, mighty conqueror. Sal has a juvie record and a big talking-game, but the crime she got nabbed for, she was armed.
Seriously, there’s no grounds to conclude that ANYONE here is actually any good in a fistfight. Joyce has been shown more clearly handling herself for crying out loud! Everyone else is mainly good at fighting eachother (no big if they all suck equally) and running their mouths.
Even if you want to claim A-G has just been lucky or sneaky while crime-fighting, Amber/Amazi-Girl beat her father in a straight fight badly enough to hospitalize him, and has canonical training in self-defense.
Marcie and Malaya both play roller derby, which is a seriously rough sport at best and a brawl on wheels if the teams decide to get nasty about things.
All three of them can reasonably be assumed to be able to handle themselves in a fight, although Malaya’s probably the worst of the three. A-G handled her easily 1-on-1, and by her own admission Marcie outperforms her (and apparently everyone else) on the track as a blocker.
Most people are multiple times cooler than Sal is. Sal is very much highschool cool from the exaggerated detached indifference to the motorcycle and that schtick just comes off as pretty toolish on an adult.
…And I stand by my statement of Malaya being an idiot. Sal’s trying not to escalate the situation…Not fully succeeding, but trying. Malaya just doesn’t know when to shut the fuck up, even when she’s all but TOLD to shut the fuck up.
Why do I get the feeling that Marcie’s going to be just as mad at BOTH of them? Somehow Sal’s attempt to cover for the fight seems to be trying to protect both of them. Malaya insisting that she was actually fighting and getting a “goddammit” from Sal doesn’t play as well for Malaya as she seems to think it will.
It’s partially because Sal is really really bad at being diplomacy. She’s basically going, ‘the only reason I’m not kicking your face into the wall is because I’m trying to be nice.’. That’s less of friendship and more of bullying.
True. This is more a “shut up and walk away” situation, but we know Malaya isn’t that type. Sal’s botching the olive twig offering, and I’m hardly letting her off the hook for her side of it, but there’re too many people here cheering Malaya on for giving Sal a reason for it to get to self-defense. Malaya’s just as much at fault for the situation getting here.
I think people are cheering Malaya on because she’s doing what very few other characters in this comic do; she’s actually showing Sal that you can’t just threaten your way to get what you want. Yes, in reality this is a Bad Move for the repercussions, but Malaya giving up and walking away gives Sal (the bully) what she wants.
Sal wanted Malaya under her thumb. If Malaya had just abruptly walked away, it would make her point louder than words possibly could have. But, that’s not how Malaya works.
I don’t know if diplomacy works with Malaya, though. Sal’s method’s are definitely not fair or “right,” but it might be the only way she can deal with Malaya’s caustic nature.
Being antagonistic to an already antagonistic person is basically the worst way to approach them because it immediately spirals out pretty much exactly like this did.
I wouldn’t say it’s bullying. In Shadowrun, I’d call that an ork or troll with the uncouth negative quality and no points in negotiate “Doing their damnedest”.
FWIW, Shadowrun Orcs and Trolls are victims of a magical genetic disorder called UGE, and are not significantly less intelligent or sociable than baseline humans. Despite that, they’re heavily discriminated against by society in general, partly because of the “fantasy thug” stereotype Majere just cited and partly because they’re a small minority population. They’re often economically disadvantaged because human-dominated megacorps dislike promoting metahumans beyond wage slave levels, and many wind up resorting to crime and gray/black ops shadowrunning to earn enough to survive.
If they weren’t filthy dumb orcs and stupid violent trolls in the first place, maybe people wouldn’t be rightfully scared of them, and shunning them like the genescum they are.
There is no situation on the goddamn planet where “slams someone against the wall” is not purposely escalating the situation. Regardless of what Malaya said, Sal is overstepping bounds, and it’s not Malaya’s fault for defending herself.
What? Sal isn’t trying to stop the situation from escalating, she’s trying to push blame of the fight she started onto Malaya, trying to cow her into submission. Sal is attempting to establish dominance. Malaya is having none of that shit.
As I mentioned bellow, Sal is lieing because she needs Marcie’s approval. She’s acting like a three year old who got caught doing something she knows will get her in trouble so she’s trying to get out of it by lieing.
How is Sal trying to shift blame? She’s not trying to shift blame to Malaya here, she’s actually making a statement to try and make it look like they weren’t about to kill each other.
I am so sick of this fandom. I want to fight everyone who will not stop shitting on Malaya. Same people who hated on Roz so much they got the B word banned. I LIKE Sal, but goddamn no woman owes you a pleasant attitude in all situation you misogynistic assholes.
I don’t get it since I liked Walkyverse Malaya. She was an ass, but I felt she was more interesting than people like Amber or Ethan.
I like Sal too, the times when she isn’t a violent angry teen lashing out at the world. This part of the story seems to be dealing with these characters confronting that things are different now. Joyce confronting that her upbringing may have been intolerant, Walky learning he can’t skate by on intelligence alone (hard lesson, been there. It hurts so much), Sal needs to learn to control herself and that she can’t use people (and she does, I just don’t think she realizes she is doing it.)
Okie dokie nobody is saying that women must always be pleasant at all times. Sal and Malaya are currently engaging in activity that is illegal. YES beating the shit out of people is against the law unless it is in self defense. And even then, you can still get in trouble. I typically encourage not breaking the law. So I kind of have to say no to this situation, especially since they are physically fighting over something that could be talked out reasonably. I don’t understand how that is sexist.
Yep, you caught me. My dislike of this one character due to her constant and often unecessarily abrasive behaviour that is in no way related to her gender is because I’m just a big old misogynist and secretly hate all women everywhere.
I actually really like this. Malaya is definitely being an asshole, but Sal was being condescending as fuck as well, and it just seems like…this is a necessary thing for both of them. Malaya needed to establish she was not someone to push around, and Sal needed that reality check that Marcie is allowed to have friends who don’t cater to Sal, or even like her, and that if she keeps trying to bully people she doesn’t like, eventually she’s going to meet someone like Malaya, who isn’t scared of her.
Marcie is probably pretty damn pissed right now though, and I don’t blame her. They’re both going to need to kiss her ass for a month after this.
Why would Malaya have to kiss ass? She was lured here by Sal under the guise of hanging out, was rudely insulted, then condescended to, then physically assaulted when she called Sal on it. Everything after that was self-defense.
Because Marcie is not impartial. Logically, Malaya isn’t at fault in the slightest. But Sal is also Marcie’s friend, and she’s probably going to be upset that Malaya didn’t just walk away at the first insult, and the situation escalated. Marcie isn’t going to want to fully blame either of them. Malaya is likely going to feel bad because Marcie feels bad, in any case.
I change my mind, Sal is going to have to really suck up way more than Malaya, because Sal is really just being an asshole in this. Malaya will feel bad for losing her temper, but Sal should feel bad for not only escalating things but for starting it in the first place.
Marcie knows how violent Sal is though. And since she is friends with Malaya she probably knows that even though Malaya is a jerk, she also doesn’t attack people without cause. Even in the last fight Malaya was in she was defending the group against Amazi-Girl.
Damn, that’s true. You’re right, and I had forgotten that Marcie would have had the opportunity to see how Malaya’s temper works in contrast to Sal’s. Malaya needs a reason to actually become physical. Sal is more of a powder keg.
I take back my original statement completely. Sal is going to be the one who has to make it up to Marcie entirely.
Marcie is clearly very unhappy with Sal in that last panel. I think she has some level of control over Sal precisely because she doesn’t tolerate Sal getting violent.
No Sal, you came here to pick a fight. You didn’t even try and make nice.
This encounter demonstrates two key points of Sal’s character:
1) Displacing her anger. She never channels her feelings at the proper target instead she targets the one who has done nothing wrong. Parents favor her brother over her? Get mad at him for being the favorite instead of them for neglecting her. Marcie found someone new to play with? Harass Malaya instead of talking it over with Marcie.
2) Sal is desperate for approval. Continuing from the above Sal can confront her parents or Marcie because she needs their approval to feel good about herself. She acts like she doesn’t care what anyone thinks but deep down it matters a great deal. This is a big part of why she can’t stand Malaya, Malaya genuinely doesn’t care what anyone thinks of her and therefore doesn’t play nice. She looked Sal right in the eye and called her on her shit. It’s demonstrated the second Marcie shows herself, Sal backs off and starts lieing to avoid the consequences of her actions but Malaya just tells it straight.
I wonder when people will catch on that Malaya is not to be provoked, you pick a fight she gives you a fight. You can’t intimidate her or scare her off.
Some women aren’t looking for anything logical, like money. They can’t be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some women just want to go fuckin’ skating..
You make a good point about Sal projecting her anger on the wrong people. I didn’t exactly realize she wanted approval that badly from her peers – talking down to Malaya surely won’t work.
Not her peers, SPECIFIC people. Her parents and Marcie. Sure, she feeds off the attention she gets from Joyce and Danny but they’re the ones she’s desperate for.
I agree with this, Sal has some real trust issues, possibly heavily increased by her Parents literally sending her away after her cry for love. She isnt willing to open herself up to people, but when she finds a person that she thinks is really important, who’s opinion matters, She sees them as a way to validate her. If this person is so good, then if they like me then it means i’m not so bad, right?
From what i’ve seen she loves her parents, Walky, and Marcie. Her parents she thinks are good but dont care about her, Walky has a heart but is a reminder of her failures and he’s just a dumby, which just leaves Marcie.
I mean they met when they were little kids, and they obviously went through something terrible together (whatever took Marcie’s voice). if she was no older than 8 (probably younger) she has known, loved, and trusted Marcie for over 10 years, more than half her life and so far Marcie is the only one that recognizes Sal’s existence. She has the potential to make some great friends (Billy, Danny, Amber) but that hasnt happened yet (and yes Billie doesnt seem close enough despite their past to be a trusted “friend” to me), but a lot of them are the problem. Hell Jason is her only intimite companion and he wont stop criticizing her. A very epitome of what she doesnt want in other people. Those who are invested in her but dont think she’s good enough.
She’s not used to people on the level she perceives Malaya as being on, “beneath her notice” as being the sort of person who genuinely could not give a fuck about Sal’s opinion of her, and not being scared of her. Sal might say she hates her reputation, but she likes the power it lends her. She’s trying to put Malaya “in her place” and establish herself as the more important person in Marcie’s life, and convince Malaya she needs Sal’s approval to be allowed to be Marcie’s friend.
Malaya isn’t having it for one minute. She might have a mouth on her, but she’s got the spine to back it up. Sal wasn’t expecting that.
Uh, getting mad at Walky for not fucking noticing, and joining their parents in being a jerk to her, is completely fucking fair. I don’t know if you noticed this, but Walky was not exactly trying to be an understanding brother. That’s fair – they’ve been seperated a while. But given some of the shit he’s said to or about Sal, he’s not some innocent party and Sal’s some weirdo for being mad at him.
I have a brother very close to my age. I love him to death, but we are both dealing with stuff and let me tell you. Siblings are not understanding. Not when you are still in the late teens, early 20s. It is unrealistic to expect him to be something that people older than him are still struggling to attempt.
Hence “That’s fair – they’ve been seperated for a while,” yes. I’m not really expecting better of someone who hadn’t seen his sister for what, 6 years? But at the same time, that doesn’t matter to the point at hand – it doesn’t change that he has been a jackass to his sister, and her anger over that is justified. Even if his behavior is understandable, so is Sal’s, which timemonkey either hasn’t noticed, or is ignoring.
There’s some truth to that, but it only explains Walky’s behavior, it doesn’t excuse it. He really has been kind of rotten about things, although Sal didn’t communicate her problems to him very well either.
Walky has been pretty nice to her since they got to college, it’s been Sal whose been blowing him off for the most part. Walky’s had moments of being a dick to her but he’s been a dick on occasion to everyone, it’s not a personal grudge like it is with Sal. He genuinely didn’t get it until she screamed it in his face.
Yes, but he was a dick to her *by repeating the same bullshit as their parents*. Or more likely, their mother, but nonetheless. It doesn’t have to be a ‘personal grudge’ for her anger to be justified, in light of that. I’m not mad at Walky here, but if you think Sal’s weird for being mad at Walky some of the time, yer cracked.
How did he continue their parents bullshit? He tried to talk to her, hung out with her peacefully a few times, ignored the fact that she’s breaking several laws (underage drinking and smoking at the least) and tried some typical sibling teasing. Walky ignored what their parents did to Sal, but Sal has ignored what their parents have done to Walky just as well.
…So you’re just going to forget the times he’s thrown Sal having been in jail straight into her face? I mean, that would be an obvious one. Sal hasn’t seen what their parents do to Walky a whole lot (What with not having seen their interactions in 6 years), but she also doesn’t CONTINUE it. She doesn’t extend the puppet strings that keep him dancing to a future that has him as rich, successful, and otherwise ‘proper’ except by being a ‘bad example’.
Seriously, all this because of iconoclasm? You don’t even know what you’re saying.
But that doesn’t make it okay. Personally, every instance of violence we’ve seen is uncalled for and concerning…with two exceptions. Those are Sarah’s attack on Ryan and Dina’s attack on Faz. Sarah was saving Joyce, and Dina was fending off someone who was sexually harassing her. (though I think it was just in the verbal sense) Notice I’m not including Amazi-Girl and Amber. Amber’s attack on her dad…I don’t know how I feel about it. Was it satisfying? Yes. Is it okay? I don’t know. I honestly can’t remember if he was about to attack her or not. The attack by Amazi-Girl however was incredibly disturbing because I truly believe that if Danny hadn’t intervened she would’ve killed her father.
Well my point is to hold them to a different standard. Tons of people have been violently assaulted by ” likable characters” . And most people cheered.
But I think all that is irrelevant because this is a cartoon that uses slap stick. It mirrors real life values but isn’t them. Its kinda like how I’ll call out tom and jerry for being racist, but not promoting of assault.
Because this is a unique universe where people are just more violent. At least that is my impression
‘Slap stick’? Most of the violence in DoA hasn’t been played for laughs. Wasn’t very funny when: Amber nearly killed her dad, Sarah beat up a rapist, or Sal tried to rob a store and got stabbed in the hand. This episode wasn’t very funny, either.
Sal insulted her. Sal condescended to her. She told Sal to fuck off. Sal grabbed her and threw her against a wall. That is when Malaya brought out a threat.
This. Sal started with a verbal insult (“cumstain”). Sal started the physical threat too (throwing Malaya against a wall). All Malaya has done is respond to being threatened, and somehow, she’s at fault?
Timemonkey, how, at any point of this interaction, is Malaya not partially responsible? Two pages back(I’m becoming a damned parrot at this point), the conversation was literally: “Where is that *stain?” “Yo, you want me to kick your ass? I will kick your ass!”
First threat was from Malaya, which Sal let slide.
I’m not saying Sal isn’t at fault, I’ve not said that once. What I am saying is why I think Sal(from what I know of her in this comic) is acting the way she is, how she was actually trying to be nice(even if she’s normally a bongo), and how they’re both at fault. I don’t understand why you glossed over everything Malaya did to aggravate this further, while also glossing over that Sal was trying to get to know Malaya well enough to figure out why Marcie wants to be friends with Malaya.
No, Malaya made the first threat of violence. Two pages back.
“Where is that stain.”
“You want me to kick your ass? I will kick your ass!”
“Hello, Malaya”
“Why’d you call me here if it’s just to insult me?”
Then Sal tries to convey the reason, trying to make nice with a person she feels is poaching her friend because, due to Sal’s emotional lack of maturity, is having difficulties dealing with.
Sal NEVER tried to make nice. She was rude and aggressive and condescending the entire time. She’s trying to dominate Malaya, to force her to follow her lead and her rules. Malaya is having none of that shit and returns what she’s receiving. She gets nothing but hostility so she returns it, she gets threatened so she returns in kind. Sal upgrades to violence and Malaya fights back.
@Timemonkey: I don’t see Sal trying to dominate Malaya the past few pages. I see Sal getting pissed off because she’s doing her damnedest to try and make nice with what she sees as a threat due to her jealousy and fear of losing her only friend.
And again, Sal didn’t threaten Malaya first. Malaya made the first threat. How is that hard for anyone here to see?
Sal isn’t even trying at all, let alone trying her hardest. She’s made no effort. How can you think calling someone a cumstain, not apologising when you’re overheard and instead saying you’ll allow them to hang out together, even if it ends up killing them (and then clarify you mean it killing THEM), and then slamming them against the wall when you get called on your hostile, condescending bulllshit is someone trying their hardest to be nice.
Timemonkey, how, at any point of this interaction, is Malaya not partially responsible? Two pages back(I’m becoming a damned parrot at this point), the conversation was literally: “Where is that *stain?” “Yo, you want me to kick your ass? I will kick your ass!”
First threat was from Malaya, which Sal let slide.
I’m not saying Sal isn’t at fault, I’ve not said that once. What I am saying is why I think Sal(from what I know of her in this comic) is acting the way she is, how she was actually trying to be nice(even if she’s normally a bongo), and how they’re both at fault. I don’t understand why you glossed over everything Malaya did to aggravate this further, while also glossing over that Sal was trying to get to know Malaya well enough to figure out why Marcie wants to be friends with Malaya.
Both of them are assholes, there’s no denying that, but Sal’s the one that pushed this into fight territory when she grabbed Malaya. Sal’s older, bigger, and has a reputation for being the tough gal, Malaya needed to get her hits in when she could.
I’m conflicted on the one hand My seething hatred of Malaya wanted her head rammed through the entire IU building. On the Other hand Sal was being crazy unreasonable and hateful toward her.
It’s not often there’s a fight where I’m rooting for neither character. On one hand, Malaya is right and Sal is being a total bongo about all of this. On the other hand, Malaya is a total bongo all the time.
Here is the difference. When Sal is one she expects to get away with it and still have people like her. Malaya, just doesn’t care. Malaya, unlike Sal, is comfortable with who she is and doesn’t form her identity around what other people think of her.
Uh… where has Sal expected to just get away with it??? That’s such a bizarre mischaracterization of her I don’t even know where to begin.
I do agree that Sal can’t FORCE someone to at least be civil with her for a mutual friend’s benefit, especially after how she opened it (though to be fair she didn’t realize the other was in hearing distance).
While Malaya has some very valid points, neither of them are really in the right. Sal is the more sympathetic party even if she’s “wrong”, because she really does want to at least TRY for their friend’s benefit.
Sal acts like a jerk to a heck of a lot of people. She didn’t set that meeting up to be friends, she did it as a power play. Malaya can hang out with Marcie if she starts playing nice to Sal.
Sal went there prepped to insult and belittle Malaya.
When Sal is rude, she blows up when called on it. When Malaya is rude she doesn’t care if someone says “F off”, because she doesn’t need that person to like her.
Sal’s this moment is Malaya’s every moment of every day. Fun fact. People who actually don’t care about things generally don’t go out of their way to tell everybody how much they don’t care, because THEY DON’T CARE.
Malaya acts the way she acts because she gets off on being a jerk and treating nearly everything around her with contempt. Sal’s real crime here is that she lowered herself to Malaya’s level. If she holds any greater guilt, it’s because unlike Malaya, she’s better than this.
I tend to be a jerk when I talk because I don’t want to waste energy lying to people, I’ll tell you I don’t get off on it like you think. I tell people I don’t care, because that’s my deal. I don’t lie to people, I tell them the truth.
Sal came with a confrontational attitude, Sal reacted with violence. The thing is, these have been shown to be normal for her. She doesn’t have the coping mechanisms to deal with being told no.
Are you malaya, or are you just projecting my assessment of Malaya onto yourself? because you really shouldn’t do that.
Also, there are lots of way to be honest with people and even express disinterest in a topic without being a jerk. Your excuse is just that, an excuse for (taking your words at face value) you to act like a jerk. It doesn’t make you special. It just makes you a jerk.
I am saying I get Malaya’s side of things. Nothing more. I just have to parallel it against what I know. I got sick of people lying to spare my feelings, and it always made me feel like crap when I lied to be nice to people so I stopped. I would rather someone told me that they don’t care, then pretending they do and then ignoring me. When I say I am a jerk, I didn’t mean I am rude, I used that word because you had.
As I said, I can only understand things through my own experiences. So to understand Malaya, I use myself. I am not special in any way, I just empathize with the character. I just don’t like to see her picked on for a character flaw that is relatively minor and will adjust as she grows up.
This is a serious miscalculation of the situation at hand here. First of all, no, Sal isn’t better than this. That’s why she needs someone like Marcie to stop her all the time in the first place. Marcie is Sal’s social crutch, someone who steps in when things get out of hand, usually with Sal against other people. She or someone else is there to stop Sal from attacking someon every single time.
Secondly, Malaya, while being a jerk, hasn’t done nearly as many shitty things in DoA than Sal has. The only things Malaya has ever done is whine and complain about things she doesn’t like. You know who else does that? Literally everyone. Well, there’s also the time she was instigated into a fight by Amazi-Girl, but that’s on Amazi-Girl for instigating one.
Thirdly, and I’m not aiming this at you specifically, but judging Malaya based on other Willis comics is incredibly unfair. This universe is a clean slate for all characters. Judge her by her actions in this universe, not in “It’s Walky” or whichever she debuted in.
“Malaya, while being a jerk, hasn’t done nearly as many shitty things in DoA than Sal has.”
Well, we haven’t seen as much of Malaya (18 strips to date) as we have Sal (183 strips). I would consider Sal to be one of the primary characters; Malaya, Marcie, and Carla — no so much so.
Sal didn’t really want to try – she just kinda expected Malaya to play nice while she repeatedly insulted her and made it clear that she still loathes Malaya’s guts. Unsurprisingly, Malaya didn’t feel like putting up with that shit.
Also, if calling someone a “little cumstain” is what Sal considers “mak[ing] nice-nice,” her being indifferent to someone must start with her putting them in the hospital.
Malaya is a self centered, antagonistic, dirty fighting little bongo.
Sal is one of my favorites and always has been.
I don’t think it would have gotten bad if Marcie hadn’t shown up, Sal would have connected with that roundhouse, and then Marcie could’ve peeled Malaya off the pavement.
But like Rex says, sorta. Sal is just flat jealous of Malaya. Add to that the type of person Malaya is, and that makes it all the harder for Sal to understand why Marcie would rather hang with her.
Hate to say it but Sal is way not right with the insults.
Calling someone a cumstain is not the way to strike up a friendship, even if said person is one.
I agree. But even if we did go by notions of a fair fight, Malaya threw her punch after Sal threw her against the wall, and with Sal looking directly at her. She also didn’t lie about it to Marcie after the fact. I fail to see how that’s ‘fighting dirty’.
No, no, I agree Malaya isn’t out of line defending herself physically. That was actually my point. The only reason anybody could see this fight as “dirty” is by presuming that Malaya should just let Sal beat her.
God: “Lady, I tried. Maybe next time you’ll have the sense to choose Apples to Apples plus lesbian makeouts over getting gutpunched. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got Enterprise reruns to watch.”
Well done Malaya for putting Sal in her place, Sal acts like she doesn’t care what anyone thinks but its a loud kind of don’t care, a very noticeable don’t care, the kind of don’t care where you want people to notice how much you don’t care.
Malaya (though not a character I care for much) has shown she won’t be bullied and she won’t be threatened and I can respect that.
Please never, ever try to reach out to me. If you think grabbing someone’s shirt and holding them up against a wall is NOT bullying &/or threatening then I think you should re-evaluate that.
So Sal sets up a meeting between her and Malaya. What is the first sentence spoken in this meeting?
“Where is that little cumstain?”
As Sal refers to Malaya. Such overtures. Very branch. Much olive. Wow.
Yeah calling someone a cumstain even if you didn’t mean for them to here it is reaching out.
However these lines:
“So tonight I’m gonna try to be friends, even if it kills you”
“Maybe ah’ll get used to you. *quiet voice* like menstruation”
are patronizing towards Malaya and then when Malaya fires back with some barbs of her own Sal slams her up against a wall.
So yeah Sal was attempting to bully Malaya and Malaya fought back
Oh gods, I didn’t even remember that was that hand. Let’s keep that finger for now. Hmmm, the right ring finger can go I guess? Is that used for anything?
If you think calling someone to meet up just to call them a cumstain to their face, then comparing them to menstruation, and then basically telling them that ‘maybe you’ll get used to [them]’ is reaching out, I think you’re living on another planet. Sal treated Malaya like shit from the get-go here, but more importantly, she EXPECTED that Malaya would try to be friends with her after this. Fuck that. As much as I like Sal, in this isolated pocket of drama she got what she deserved.
Explains why Malaya showed up in the first place. Couldn’t see her coming to hang out with just Sal.
Sadly, I’m now deprived of my beautiful daydream of Joe interrupting the festivities with some crude remark and getting savaged by a Sal and Malaya tag team. Pity.
Especially when it morphed into a haircut discussion.
I did find some of the posts about the difficulties of purchasing properly sized bras informative, though. Never fully appreciated what some of my female friends were going through there.
To be fair….a good chunk of the comments are in a thread STARTED by a comment about breast size, but I don’t know that most of the comments are still on that topic…I think the biggest subthread is the one arguing about whether it’s OK to say Dina’s ‘basically a kid’.
So far, we have spats over:
-Who’s at fault
-Who would’ve won the fight
-Wishing bodily harm on Malaya
-Wishing bodily harm on Sal
-The breast sizes of the female cast
-Dina’s emotional maturity
-Whether it’s okay to talk about Dina’s emotional maturity
-Becky’s hair (again)
Wasn’t expecting Marcie to turn up, but I’m glad she did. Also, I wasn’t expecting Malaya to kick some ass! The tables have turned when it comes to the beat downs it would appear.
WOW, so much anger in these comments this comic. Lots of people saying Sal was doing the right thing, plenty more cheering Malaya on, a few saying both are in the wrong with varying levels of guilt…
Not bad, considering everyone’s reading the same comic, just with different points of view. Mind you, seems not everyone is taking the 2 previous strips into account.
I see it as Sal was TRYING to be nice to someone who has a tendency to aggravate her a fair bit (Stain), but started it off on the wrong foot with the cumstain comment, while Malaya was just being a paint the whole time, though said cumstain comment didn’t help 1 bit. Sal declared she was trying to be nice to Malaya, Malaya threw it back in her face, so Sal threw her against the wall. Malaya threw an uppercut & a knee at Sal, went for another punch which Sal caught & was about to reply to with 1 of her own when Marcie stepped in.
Both are at fault, but at least Sal was TRYING to be nice. She obviously doesn’t know how to very well, but there was effort made. Malaya just heard the cumstain comment & never went nice…
*Sits back & waits for comments tearing at what I’ve said…*
I think the whole “not knowing how to be nice” thing stems from her popularity. People to just tend to fall all over her. Then we got this dame, who ain’t exactly all that friendly to begin with who isn’t singing Sal’s praises within the first two minutes of meeting her. And I think that bugs Sal just a bit. I dunno, I could easily be wrong.
If someone insults me like that right away after inviting me to be friends, I would assume that was not their intent at all and leave. Malaya is a lot more confrontational of course but I’m not surprised she didn’t act nice to Sal after that at all.
indeed. Sal thought she was saying “Lets play nice for Marcie’s sake”
what it looked (and sounded) like to Malaya (and, i think most people) was “Look, i’m going to grant you the benefit of my presence, because you have forced yourself into MY friends life. So stay out of my way”
Yes, I am going to dissect your view of the situation.
“I see it as Sal was TRYING to be nice to someone who has a tendency to aggravate her a fair bit, but started it off on the wrong foot with the cumstain comment, while Malaya was just being a paint the whole time, though said cumstain comment didn’t help 1 bit.”
You’re missing the context of this meeting. Sal is jealous of Malaya for hanging out with Marcie. I think she’s afraid that Marcie will be taken away from her. This “playing nice” thing, to me, is Sal’s way of wedging herself between the two of them, keeping her place next to Marcie while acting as a gatekeeper. A “if you want to be friends with her, then try to be friends with me” type of deal. However, friendship doesn’t always work like that. Malaya has no obligation to accept this deal, especially since Sal, from Day 1, has made it clear that she hates her.
“Sal declared she was trying to be nice to Malaya, Malaya threw it back in her face, so Sal threw her against the wall.”
No, Sal claimed she was being nice, while condescending to and insulting Malaya the whole time. People who try to be nice don’t do those sort of things. Malaya, understandably, did not take that shit lightly, and Sal wouldn’t have it.
Malaya, to date, is the only other person we’ve seen who’s attempted to communicate with Marcie via sign and that’s incredibly important and great of her for doing that. Until now, the only person who could talk to Marcie was Sal. Literally. This is Marcie’s chance to have friends that she doesn’t need an interpreter for, someone who is more than willing to learn to communicate, and Sal is getting in the way of that because of selfish reasons. Honestly, I wouldn’t blame Marcie if she ditched Sal after this.
Actually, that’s a great interpretation of this. Everyone shits on Malaya for little to no reason (your mileage may vary; I don’t see her personality as particularly off-putting to be quite honest), and Malaya is done with it. She won’t be discriminated against because of an alternate universe version of her.
Also, I don’t care if you say that DoA is the alternate universe, because this is actually the only Willis comic I’ve read seriously, so basically any information outside of it is kind of irrelevant to me (no offense Willis, I’ll probably read them later).
The amount of people who want to see Malaya beaten up disturbs me. Like holy shit, the thirst of some comments.
I’m glad Marcie was there because this ‘conversation’ was going nowhere. Sal is obviously jealous and thinks that making peace will make things better (not that she tried tho) and Malaya thinks Sal is on some weird ego trip, Marcie needs Sal to fess up to her pronto.
The TLDR of it is that she was a gigantic asshole in the other universe so she automatically has some bad karma to work off.
That DoA Malaya is kind of an unpleasant jerk who also easily befriended Marcie and is making a serious effort in learning sign language is tangential.
That people came in with negative impressions of her from Shortpacked? How is that bullshit?
My first reaction to seeing her in DoA was “Shit, Malaya”, and since then her meager panel time has shown that she’s capable of being better than what we’ve assumed her to be. That aside, people generally like Sal more than her, so a lot of first impressions on the comic will be Character I Like vs. Character I Don’t Like.
Well, it is what it is. Not many of the characters are significantly different from their Walkyverse counterparts and it’s not completely irrational to dislike a new iteration of a previously hated character.
To put this in Willis terms, it’s like if Drift was the star of the next Transformers movie. Doesn’t matter if it’s a whole new canon with different art, writers and everything, it’s still Drift goddammit.
A pretty obvious Joe plot would be him developing a crush on some girl, instead of just wanting to get into her pants, and said girl having no interest in Joe.
I’m not sure Sal really is amongst “the cool ones”. She only has one friend she hangs out constantly. Since Marcie has Malaya, we’ve seen Sal in a bar all alone. She just gets called cool for her looks and bike and the distant behaviour. But I believe her acting is just a defense mechanism to hide her insecurity.
Sal has been in jail, sent away to boarding school as the family disappointment, thinks her parents don’t love her, and has only one really friend. How has she not “tasted defeat” in many different ways?
Well, someone willing to get along with Sal might have choosen to ignore Sal’s cumstain remark as she was obviously talking to herself at that point and didn’t expect Malaya to hear it. Calling her out on it wasn’t a smart move if communication was the aim. But then, why should I expect Malaya to be better at this kind of stuff than Sal?
So they both acted stupidly and obviously both like to fight to get their anger out of their systems instead of finding other solutions. And if Macie hadn’t stepped in, it would have been an all-out where probably both of them would have been considerably hurt, both being no quitters.
So thanks for stepping in Marcie. I hope you can somehow get through to them.
No, no, if you can’t keep your inside thoughts in your head, you don’t get pretend they never happened. Sal stated her intent pretty clearly, and Malaya doesn’t actually owe her anything.
That being said, a reasonable person would be expected to, I think, extend the middle finger and depart, not feed the confrontation.
(For reference this comes from years of therapy and antidepressants to get me to a point where I wouldn’t act EXACTLY LIKE Malaya in this situation)
like Smiling Cat said. Sal wants to befriend Malaya so she can hang out with Marcie more.
Malaya is just keen not being friends with Sal, she has no reason to want a truce or to be friends with Sal. Why would she want to have that in her life. Her rebellion in this page is because Sal doesnt undersand there is literally no reason for Malaya to give her what she wants. She is friends with Marcie, and if Marcie wants to hang out with her instead of Sal since Sal purposefully refuses to enjoy life then its not Malaya’s fault that Sal is a crummy friend.
As i speak i get the feeling maybe Sal’s and Marcie’s friendship is a little one sided when it comes to personal commitment. Can you imagine the hours Marcie has potentially spent doing literally nothing but sitting next to Sal while she smokes.
To be fair to Sal, I don’t think anywhere in what I’ve read so far (and I’m one of those rare cases who’s pretty much only read DoA and not other Walkyverse strips) shows that Sal necessarily likes the hero worship. Malaya kind of jumped to the conclusion that that was the reason Sal doesn’t like her and pressed on it.
That doesn’t mean that Sal has been exactly nice about this, but maybe I’m wrong. I’ve seen these whole three strips as less “I deem you worthy of hanging out with me” and more “I hate your guts, but my friend likes you, so I guess I’m going to have to deal with it, but hell if you don’t piss me off.” Malaya doesn’t have to seek Sal’s approval, but you’d think she’d at least acknowledge that if they both like Marcie, they’re going to both have to be civil.
I don’t get where people see Sal doing this as a power play. You’d think if it were a power play, she’d be more elegant about it. Or go to Marcie and demand her not to hang out with “that little cumstain.”
This. I don’t think Sal is completely blameless, but calling it a power-play/bullying/etc. strikes me as an extreme take on the situation. Especially since they act like Sal was calling Malaya a cumstain to her face when it clearly wasn’t meant to be heard by Malaya (which, to me, greatly changes the dynamic of the dialogue).
I loved Walkyverse Malaya, and was indifferent to Walkyverse Sal, but I still think Malaya is the bigger asshole here.
Well i disagree with this philosophy but i understand most people find bongos that insult you behind your back to be worse than people who do it to your face.
It does change the Dynamic of the dialogue. She knows Sal hates her so all this “make nice” thing is obviously B.S.
Its like i say. In life you dont need to answer to anyone, you can just do You and be happy with your life, but as soon as you expect people to react to you in a positive way it doesnt matter what you think, how you feel, what you MEAN. People only have what you say and do to understand you. They cant read your mind. And Sal has shown Malaya nothing good.
It’s definitely a power play. Her condescending remarks and insults and the way she violently reacted to being rejected says as much. The fact that she’s jealous of Malaya for getting in the way of her friendship with Marcie also says as much. She’s trying to set herself up as a barrier between them so she can keep Marcie close to her. Unfortunately, Malaya doesn’t roll like that. She doesn’t want to be friends with Sal, especially since Sal has made it clear since day one that she doesn’t want to be friends with Malaya. If Sal really wanted to play nice, she would’ve attempted to be a bit more friendly, but I’m certain that Malaya would see past the bullshit anyway. She seems pretty perceptive.
If they were going to be civil though, Sal could’ve come across a *lot better* than she did. Insulting someone continuously is really not acting civil, so of course Malaya was going to call it out as the whole ‘lets be friends for Marcie’s sake’ as BS, which it is.
Why is everyone still siding with Sal here? It’s seriously baffling me. I see all these comments of ‘offering an olive branch’ but she literally turned up, continuously insulted Malaya and has now *pushed her against the wall and threatened her* because she wasn’t happy with Malaya’s obvious ‘uh wtf no’ and there are still people annoyed that Malaya didnt have a chance to be beaten up for it???
I’m glad Marcie turned up though, at least! Otherwise it wouldve been mindless beatdowns for the next few strips.
Sal has a short fuse, yes, but I don’t think getting upset with someone for jumping to a false conclusion is out of line. Is slamming someone up against the wall appropriate? No. But I think too many people are busy looking at “putting Sal in her place” to notice that responding to one person’s side comment with “Do you want me to kick your ass?” isn’t starting on the aggressive side. Hell, even Malaya starting the conversation with “I don’t need this shit, fuck you, I’m out of here. Marcie can do whatever the hell she wants and you can’t make her.” would still be shutting Sal down but less aggressive.
Malaya came with a chip on her shoulder. Sal came with a chip on her shoulder. Those chips have since exploded. Some people see Malaya as being in the right here but really, they’re both being kind of petty and short tempered. It’d be within Marcie’s right to say “You know what? You’re both assholes, fuck this.”
Malaya has done nothing but respond in kind to Sal’s aggression. The only thing she could have done better is walk away instead of letting Sal goad her into this fight.
Sal, on the other hand, has done nothing but aggress at Malaya.
I can think of scenarios where a punch would be completely justified, and needed in the sense that something needed to be done. That’s the closest I can come to a punch being ‘deserved’.
Marcy interrupted at the worst possible time because after getting punched twice, and about to fire back, she got stopped. There’s gonna be a lot of pent up anger over that. If they had just given each other a good beating, they might have found some mutual respect. It’s happened to me before. But now the hate will flow like a damn sith.
Over the course of the comic, Sal *always* got stopped before she could punch back.
and I agree with you, I couldn’t really say it well in english, but… well, yeah, anger penting up. The bomb didn’t explode this time, but it’s gaining on C4 all the while.
This will be so very bad once it sets off.
Malaya is in the right here. When someone starts off with the insults and physically grabs you and pushes you into a wall? It’s not the person being pushed into the wall that has a problem. Mind you, we don’t know what the full results of the fight would be as it has been cut short but Sal is way off base here.
Reminded me of time at school when a fight broke out a teacher quickly broke it up and demanded to know what they were doing and one of the combatants responded with; “We were fucking fighting!”
One of the problems with webcomics is that they can lead to reductionist readings. This is a great arc because of the way it is structured, going back weeks, even months.
Look at the constrasts. Sal and Becky both are in the position of having their lifelong friend expand their social circle and possibly lose the lifeline they depend upon. Becky has more at stake here, as she is one step from survival sex and homelessness. Sal has a home, as many friends as she will allow in, a sex life and money enough for a motorcycle. All very dysfuntional, but she still has them. We just saw Becky reaching out and making a friend. Their paths forward are very different, which is great storytelling.
Dina and Sal are both isolated from their peers, Sal partially by choice but mainly by circumstances. We just saw Dina making a connection by working through her limitations.
Amber and Sal have extreme anger issues. Amber worked through hers by being a vigilante, while Sal is assaulting someone she made an appointment with. DYW reminded us of the contrast before starting this episode.
Taking the last week out of context is missing the resonance that DYW has built into this strip. Most major actions are foreshadowed months in advance. Sal has been a walking time bomb since introduced. This violence is totally in character for her. Anyone surprised that she would get violent with Malaya under the guise of “befriending” her?
So, DYW’s depth of storytelling is what keeps me coming back. Like most people here, I read 15-20 webcomics, but this one stands out for real storytelling.
Well, most of what I read wasn’t siding but pointing out how badly Sal is behaving right now.
If you talk to a bad person like a big buttopening (haha) you are not better than them. Also, Sal is only like that because she’s mad jealous, not because Malaya has done anything wrong (she only befriended Marcie).
Of the two of them, Sal is WAY more out of line here. Yeah, Malaya should have just said “Fuck no, I don’t want to be your friend, you’ve been an ass to me since the moment we met” and walked away. Her volley of insults was unnecessary. But Sal slamming Malaya up against the wall and threatening to beat the crap out of her in retaliation was… disproportionate, to say the least.
Malaya is a jerk, but Sal has a violent streak and serious anger issues that are coming dangerously close to boiling over.
wow sal, i always figured if someone lied that hard they’d just explode. Literally everything you have done in this interaction, from opening it with calling Malaya “cumstain”, to acting like she should be honored to spend time with you, to YOU being the one to escalate this to violence last strip, shows that you absolutely did not come here to make nice.
Also, go Malaya! Don’t take any shit from this bully.
That bit where I don’t like Malaya and never have but _god damn it_ she’s in the right anyway – you made me have to support Malaya, Sal, LOOK WHAT YOU DID
Sal initiated the violence. So, yes, while Malaya is obnoxious, a sane person wouldn´t take it to fists in such a short time. Welcome to the ugly side of Sal´s demeanor, where she loses his cool and acts like a tug without reservation (when Marcie isn´t with her, and she feels she has an “appropiate” target). If she continues to act like this, she´s likely to lose Marcie, and then go on a downward spiral… In the end it´s another case of misadaptation in how to relate to relationships. Yep, most of the time, those who you see as perfectly cool and assertive people, have things you wouldn´t want to look. Only that they hide those better. So, the Sal we know (or the campus people) is only “Armor Sal”. This is the real, somewhat insecure, forceful, Sal. To this point, we still don´t know how much Marcie knows of the inner thougts of Sal about her.
Sal totally isn’t a peoples person. Her “cool” act is just her not being good with people – and not being very interested, since she has her best friend Marcie. Now Marcie has someone else whom Sal also doesn’t like. So Sal acts like … well, a jealous jerk.
Their both at fault for this fight. Sal might have wanted to be nice, but her a*hole side got the better of her instantly. I believe nearly everyone would have been offended and left or picked a fight with her. I mean, “cumstain”? Bad start.
I just like Sal. She’s an interesting character. I want to know more about how she became who she is and who she will become over the course if the comic. She’s like Amber, in the sense that we know there are reasons for the things she does. She’s fallible and human and beautiful and talented and flawed and easy-going and complex. She’s not acting terrible well in this scene, but she’s not acting worse than Malaya, who—if she *really* didn’t give a damn—could have just refused to show up in the first place.
Well, no, she is acting way worse than Malaya, and that started when it went beyond just cursing at each other to Sal straight up assaulting her.
Regardless of Malaya’s attitude, which only came about because Sal called her a cumstain and acted like speaking to her was physically difficult, she does not deserve to have Sal attack her.
Yes, she is acting worse than Malaya. She always has been. Everything she has done has been exactly the opposite of her claim that she’s trying to make nice. She has done nothing but insult and assault Malaya.
Malaya, on the other hand, has done nothing but refuse to take the insults and defend herself from the assault.
Man, a bunch of sal-fans are going nuts. Sal is wrong, way over the line and I fully believe she deserved what she got so far. Now, it would be interesting to see how Marcie settles this.
I still think they’re both in the wrong, and should just get the fight over and done with. People like Sal and Malaya either hate each other for ever, or fight and become friends. Or kill each other in a badly dubbed b-list asian action flick.
Pro Tip: If you want to make nice with someone, don’t shove them into walls and call them names.
And I don’t wanna hear any “But Malaya said blah blah blah!” Sal has been completely horrible to Malaya in every single strip we’ve seen them in. She even went as far as insisting that when Carla speaks about Marcie and Malaya, she say “Your friend, and Malaya.” Malaya is rightfully pissed off. Sal comes to extend the olive branch, but instead of doing that, calls her a cumstain when she thought Malaya couldn’t hear. So yes, Malaya started talking some serious shit. And yeah, maybe it was uncalled for, or could’ve been said differently. But Sal was the one who decided to escalate the situation to violence.
Should Malaya have attacked Sal? Maybe not. However, I would call the first punch self defense, considering that Sal hoisted her up and slammed her into a wall. The knee to the gut I’m a bit iffy on.
Both of them are being idiots right now. But I just can’t bring myself to agree with people saying that what Sal has done was a good move. It wasn’t. She is acting like a child.
I adore Sal in genral, but “If you want to make nice with someone, don’t shove them into walls and call them names.” Yes. So much this. Sal accuses Malaya of being unlikeable but Sal’s the one being exceedingly rude and condescending.
I dunn oabout self defense, but once you start a fight, it’s downright silly to stop after the first punch, especially with the opponent in arm’s range. It leaves you open to a harsh counter attack
Good lord, those two stacked panels. Malaya’s angry, but Sal looks murderous (how dare Malaya resist getting pushed up against the wall!*) Marcie got there just in time.
*Sarcasm, for those of you who need that to be pointed out.
So in something unrelated to whether or not Sal was right to physically assault someone for responding negatively to her derogatory remarks, the two stacked panels are really cool at conveying the motion of Sal winding up for a punch, especially the way her hair is swaying from panel to panel.
I feel like the scoring is using strange units here. Its like Malaya: First Blood, Sal: Interrupted Mid-murder. Because Malaya did get in the first actual swings but only while Sal was using intimidate. (It failed)
Over 500 comments but I don’t see anyone else pointing this out: Sal’s initial “stain” insult was entirely unintentional. She didn’t say it to Malaya’s face. It was an overheard remark while she was talking to herself. Stupid and careless to talk about someone that way when they might be in earshot, but not a deliberate attack. We’ll probably never know how much Sal really intended to try to “play nice-nice” but once she’d gotten Malaya going by accident I think she gave up even making an effort.
Add that to the fact that Sal’s really pretty insecure and getting caught in a dumb mistake like that is really embarrassing. Many insecure folks cope with embarrassment by getting angry with the people around them as a defense mechanism. Her initial mistake set the tone for the rest of the scene, and neither one of them can resist escalating an argument at every turn.
Hardly surprising that it’s turned into a train wreck.
Well I mentioned somewhere that if anything that would make it obvious that Seal is talking out her butt and doesn’t give snot about her.
Most people seem to agree that someone who talks bad about you behind your back is worse than someone mean to your face.
Knowing Sal’s candid feelings showed Malaya that Seal is hopeless, if anything
I will save you !
‘PInk Steel’ slices through, Seal’s earworm , to shooting uP batman. ‘
Rose on the grave?
“slap your sack /cuz your going to war : Were fighting for cock”
This. I’d mentioned earlier that cumstain was a side comment but I think that might have been lost in translation.
I guess I don’t understand why people seem to have a hard time seeing them as mutually at fault (that doesn’t mean equally, but mutually). Sal’s not going in to be best of friends here. She’s trying to tolerate someone she doesn’t like. I don’t get why Sal has to act like she does. And Malaya’s imposing reasons on why Sal doesn’t like her that simply aren’t true. Sal’s upset that she thinks she’s losing her friend, not trying to meld Malaya into the Sal hero-worship cult. They have a mutual dislike of each other for dumb reasons without really getting to know the other.
It’s a good thing marcie stopped the fight, but at the same time it’s not. Malaya is gonna be even more full of herself now, and sal’s gonna be mad because the score is left at two to zero, where she could’ve at least got one good punch in if marcie waited a second.
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Marcie, always the voice of reason.
Badum tish.
Two drums and a cymbal fall off a cliff.
and land into a soundless ocean (whatever that means)
That was kind of deep odd ball….
Mute. Very appropriate.
Bad timing, Marcie, bad timing! Malaya NEEDS a good pounding right now!
I agree, but not the type you are thinking of.
Treasure Type O? 🙂
Why the hell does she need to get beat up? She’s a jerk, sure, but Sal is way more out of line in this case.
Not that kind of pounding…
I disagree with your statement. I feel Malaya could really use a beating right about now.
Are either in the right? Now. I think they’re both in the wrong. I still dislike how Malaya burned the olive branch that Sal went against her normal self to offer.
The olive branch was already on fire when Sal offered it.
Indeed. You are under no obligation to accept a truce that’s offered with such open contempt.
*re-reads last 2 pages* Yeah, Sal did offer a truce, but she also made it pretty obvious she wasn’t entirely happy about it, then Malaya just didn’t even try being nice.
I’d say both are somewhat in the wrong, But at least Sal was TRYING to be nice. Malaya just just being a pain.
Wondering if I’m going to find any posts below suggesting they use a wading pool of jelly (Jello I think the Americans call it) & bikinis to sort their problems out…
Malaya didn’t try to be nice because Sal has been openly contemptuous of her for as long as they’ve known her, Malaya owes her shit, and her perceived attempt at “reaching out” is just another way for Sal to insert herself between Malaya and Marcie.
Malaya isn’t nice to pretty much anyone besides Marcie. I think that’s why I’m sticking up with Sal right now. Both are in the wrong, but Marcie has a solid history of trying to fight people who can probably kick her butt. It’s like a Chihuahua trying to fight a German Shepherd, proving the adage that ‘it’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog’ doesn’t ALWAYS work. Bravado and aggressiveness can only carry you so far before you bump into someone who’s going to hospitalize you. I think that’s why Marcie was glaring at Sal. She may have only seen Malaya hit Sal, but she knows what was just about to happen, so she’s addressing the most dangerous of the two.
Sal wasn’t trying to be nice. She was trying to look like she was being nice without doing anything nice.
On fire already? No. Not quite, from my view. Sharpened into a skewer preemptively and wrapped in barbed wire? Most certainly, but from what I know of Sal(this being the only Willis comic I read), that’s being as nice as she’s capable of.
She has a friend. One friend. *A* friend. Her friend is now spending time with someone else.
She doesn’t like it and doesn’t know how to handle this situation as it probably never came up before.
So, she tries to make nice as best as her emotional immaturity is capable of, for a selfless reason(also against the grain of her character), for the sake of a person she considers her only friend.
Re reading all pages tagged Malaya, I feel my opinion of only confirmed, and they both know that they each are grating. I stand by my assessment of the situation.
Re reading all the pages tagged with Malaya, Sal has never been nice to Malaya or tried in any way what so ever. Malaya has shown she doesn’t care, and Sal has shown that she actively doesn’t like Malaya. I’m not convinced we’re reading the same comic here.
@airyu: Malaya doesn’t deserve nice. She’s a hardcore nasty bongo to just about everyone.
Malaya is no worse to anyone than Sal is.
I feel like Danny may be working his way toward “friend” status. He’s certainly closer than most of the other people.
Agreed. because he feels “inoffensive”, I guess. And they have
mathsgames to bond over.Just because calling someone a “cumstain” and throwing thwm against a wall is “as nice as sal is capable of” doesn’t make it nice.
“Oh, that person is always an asshole. You just have to get used to them.”
Uh… no. They just have to stop being an asshole.
Lots of fan forgiveness here for unacceptable behavior.
If a person is a monster, and on one day decides to be slightly less of a monster to you, it does not mean you need to accept them being a monster to you *at all.*
I like Sal and have never really liked Malaya, but Malaya did nothing wrong in this scene. Sal issued an insulting invitation, added insult to the pre-existing insult. Threatened with violence and then *laid her hands on Malaya in anger.*
Sal deserved far more of a beating than she got.
So just because someone has very few friends someone else is supposed to accept being called a cumstain etc? No one is obligated to put up with other people’s bullshit because they’re “trying” to be diplomatic. Sal needs to learn that if there’s something she wants, she doesn’t get to just take it.
There’s a difference between understanding why someone does something and condoning it.
We can agree that, memetic badassery aside, Sal isn’t a very nice person. She’s certainly better than she used to be (considering that ‘robbing a convenience store’ was her starting point), but she still isn’t very nice. From her point of view, this was Sal trying to be nice to someone she actively doesn’t like and Malaya spitting in her face. Things escalated from there.
If I had to guess, what Sal would normally do here is ignore Malaya and have nothing to do with her. Problem is she can’t because, for reasons that Sal can’t understand, Marcie likes her.
Does that change the fact that this was a really bad attempt at being nice? Malaya is hardly innocent here, but no, it doesn’t. It just says that Sal sucks at being nice to people she doesn’t like and can be a violent bongo sometimes.
Malaya has absolutely no reason to give a shit about Sal’s past or how it reflects her current attempts at being better, though. None of those things are something Malaya knows, and Malaya getting pissed off at the way Sal’s treating her isn’t really something Malaya’s doing wrong. Is Malaya also a terrible person? Yes. Doesn’t make any of this alright.
I wouldn’t have posted if it wasn’t for Screwball saying Sal was trying to be nice, and imply that Malaya’s even worse for not accepting it.
I’m not seeing that at all. Sal was wrong to initiate the conversation in the manner that she did. There was no trying to be nice. There was no olive branch. There was I hate you and maybe if I hang out with you and you don’t speak too much, I will learn to -tolerate- your existence.
I’d be pretty ticked off too if someone asked me to show up somewhere and did that. I’d at least tell them off, and god help them if they laid a hand on me because of it.
Malaya came to the meeting to make nice, at Sal’s request.
Sal did not actually make nice.
Malaya needs a pounding? Sal has been the first, and basically only person antagonizing the other party for the past 3 comics.
If anyone needed a punch in the face in this, it was Sal. And damn, but Malaya doesn’t play when she hits, does she? Uppercut and then a knee to the abdomen.
I’m not sure that was high enough for a gut shot…..
Yeah, how dare she stick up for herself and then not put up with being assaulted. What a BONGO.
I read that Malaya is based on a Filipino woman. All I have to say about this is that if you don’t like or understand it, you have probably
never met a Filipino-American woman. It will make TOTAL SENSE once you do.
Daniel the Human has worked with someone possibly of that decent. She had a bad habit of demanding to know why a customer was staring at her, from the customer who was supposedly staring at her. He says there are others of Filipino decent who are nice, but that woman was not nice to anyone…
What if we know a woman of Filipino descent, and it still doesn’t explain Malaya’s jerkiness at all? (Since Malaya is presumably an individual and all that) I’m confused.
What does help explain Malaya’s jerkiness is the fact that Sal approached her with quite a bit of contempt, and was being pretty condescending.
I work with several Filipino ladies.
Not a single one of them acts anything like Malaya.
So, yeah. Racist stereotypes are both inaccurate and, y’know… Racist.
And Filipinas have faced a lot of racism in the US.
Unfortunately true. They also tend to get badly mistreated in Japan and South Korea, at least going by the stories of the Filipinas I’ve known.
I don’t know where you read that Malaya was based on a specific individual, but whatever it was is very wrong.
Wafflebob could not be more wrong if he insisted lions were filled with undifferentiated mucus. Also, shockingly racist.
Um… wow. Okay then.
I don’t know I think the one here in need of a pounding is Sal and not in a Jason sense. Maybe she could’ve knocked the chip off her shoulder.
Brutal honesty is the best policy after all/
I think these ladies prefer honest brutality.
Joe, where were you, we need to you to break that fight !
They need someone they can both punch?
It’s good stress relief for the puncher. Not so much for the punchee. And both Mike and Joyce can testify on how very punchable Joe is.
Sal should’ve known not to mess with Malaya, doesn’t she remember that awesome fight she got into with Amazigirl?
The one where she got her ass handed to her twice, once after she took a cheap shot at A-G while two friends were holding her down? Yeah, that’s an argument to fear the little brat.
Ever read One Punch Man? Yeah I’m pretty sure that was about to happen to Malaya’s face if Marcie hadn’t stepped in.
Pretty sure a Saitama level punch would have destroyed the entire building and Malaya would be red chunks falling randomly three states away.
Pretty sure you’re wrong. If Amazi-Girl couldn’t cause Malaya noticeable harm after repeated attacks than Sal wasn’t going to manage it quickly.
This might just be me, but after seeing what Amber/Amazi-Girl can do to a full grown man I don’t think she was actually trying to hurt Malaya in that fight.
Or Malaya is used to getting hit. Being a full-grown!whatever has no bearing on whether or not you’re able to take a hit. It’s experience with pain that teaches your body how to react. Someone who knows to hit first-ask questions later the moment someone physically threatens them, instead of the instinctive reaction of shock/immobility, like Malaya just did, is someone who’s been hit before, multiple times, and has learned to stop having that “shock” reaction.
So you’re saying Blaine is just a glass jawed dunderfuck. Hrrmmmm?…..I believe it!
She plays roller derby. Malaya isn’t going to be rattled by a hit any more easily than your average rugby or American football player.
I never thought in my life I’d say this, but god damn-go Malaya!
See Sal, this is why we don’t try.
Effort isn’t worth the effort.
Or the time. Which really should have been your line, Doctor.
Or why, when we do try, we do it a little harder and actually in good faith.
This really is trying for Sal though.
She’s trying to be Malaya’s ‘friend’ for the one and only person Sal’s ever really had.
“where is that cumstain”?
“I’m going to try to be friends even if it kills you”?
comparing getting used to her to getting used to menstruation?
She’s certainly trying very hard. Yup.
If this is Sal actively trying to be nice, she’s an even worse person than the people actually criticizing her think.
No… this is Sal thinking she doesn’t have to try in order for it to work her way because… Sal doesn’t want to try?
At what point did she “try”?
When this bit started 2 days ago, Sal said she was going to TRY to be friends with Malaya. That said, Malaya heard Sal call her a cumstain, & Malaya’s been hostile ever since, despite Sal’s offer of a truce. Looks to me like Sal was trying to hold back & be nice, but Malaya just has not played along at all…
Yeah, I’ve been reading the comic since it started. I was being derisive. Sal never tried at all with Malaya. She’s been aggressive and mean to her from the get-go, and when she condescends to “try and be friends” she makes it sound like a Herculean task that she has to try and get along with Malaya for Marcie’s sake, and acts like Malaya should be grateful that Sal is even acknowledging her. She insults her before she even knows Malaya is there, and behaves as though Malaya is the one out of line for NOT putting up with Sal’s BS. When Sal physically threatens Malaya, Malaya fights back, and she shouldn’t be sorry for it in this case.
Sal never had any intention of actually making an effort.
Malaya made the first threat of violence. Two strips ago, just look.
After Sal threw her into a wall, yes.
Actually, no. Malaya threatened an ass kicking in response to being called a cumstain. That was actually the first threat of violence here, although Sal opened things with an insult. Not an intentional insult, either – it was an overheard remark while she was talking to herself, not something she said deliberately to Malaya’s face.
Which isn’t better, really, but this whole arc has been about two people who don’t have a clue how to avoid escalating a confrontation.
Seriously. We know that Sal’s “trying” to make peace here. But why should Malaya know that? Because Sal says so? News flash, people lie. And given how combative and dismissive Sal’s been to Malaya in the past, and has been here, there’s no reason for Malaya to think this is a genuine offer of peace instead of some new way to try and drive her off.
I’m not sure Malaya is concerned with whether Sal is being sincere or not. I get the impression that if Sal had approached her politely, without the unnecessary insults, it wouldn’t have made much of a difference, either. Malaya doesn’t like Sal, doesn’t care about her opinion, and isn’t interested in “peace.’
Good for her, imo. Even if Sal were the most considerate, respectful, undeniably awesome person on the planet, Malaya would still have every right to deny an offer of friendship that doesn’t interest her.
So you’re saying that Sal said that she was going to do it, and then actively did the opposite?
That’s called “lying.”
Also you just described Sal being hostile from the start and Malaya being “hostile” in response to that, and it somehow being the latter’s fault.
Sal, I love ya, but go Malaya!
“So… how much of this conversation where you here for?”
Good question…
The most important question, even. Only person who threw a punch here was Malaya…
Pinning someone against a wall is assault.
But not very prosecute-able assault. It’s the kind of assault that just wastes the time of all involved when legal action is taken.
It is when you’ve implied killing them*, then outright said you’d embed their head into a brick wall.
*”Don’t you mean if it kills me?”
“Pretty sure Ah don’t.“
After Sal was holding Malaya up against the wall.
Missing the point. What matters is what Marcie saw and heard. If she missed yesterday’s strip, Sal comes off looking much better and Malaya looks like more like she’s over-reacting.
Well who is she scowling at? Not Malaya.
Well, maybe. She’s between them and she can only look at one of them at a time. The medium forces us to see everything in snapshots. Doubt she’s thrilled with either of them. That was her new friend beating on her childhood friend there, you know.
Also it’s possible that from what she knows of Sal and what she knows of Malaya, she felt that Sal was the one who should know better, even if she wasn’t the one Marcie saw doing anything wrong.
HORRIBLE QUESTION. Stupid question! Sal should not be trying to pull the wool over Marcie’s eyes, or massage the truth based on what she thinks Marcie might have seen. Lying right now would be a GREAT way to destroy their friendship.
Marcie is her FRIEND, in her mind her ONLY friend (not true, but your headspace is your own). She should be HONEST with her.
I feel like Marcie could kick both their asses pretty damn fast.
If her roller derby performance was correctly reported, quite likely.
Maybe. I don’t think Sal would fight back, if Marcie decided to throw down with her. Malaya, OTOH, doesn’t care what anyone thinks of her (or, at least, she wants everyone to think that), and she can throw a good punch.
“This would have ended so differently if i had awesome alien powers”
I dunno about that. In the universe where Sal has awesome alien powers, Malaya got in a knife fight with a robot car and fought it to a draw.
I feel like there’s a lesson to be learned here…somewhere?
Well what I’ve learned is that… I actually can’t think of many of Sal’s good qualities. Take away her cool factor and looking at her objectively, what does she have? She’s nicer to Joyce and Danny than we’d expect, but aside from being slightly under the level of ‘good person’ that we’ve come to expect of society in general, she doesn’t have much good going for her, does she?
We feel for her. She’s been through a lot of crap which left her a little broken. I think we want her to find some measure of happiness because of that. It’s very real, very believable.
“A little” broken?
I think the point of her character (at this point) is that, like Billie and Walky, she’s discovering that the qualities that got her through highschool aren’t going to get her through college. It’s character growth–in her case, painful character growth.
She understands how to put in effort into what she’s doing, when effort can be expressed as hard work. It’s part of the point of college – and that’s a test she’s passed, and that Walky hasn’t. I genuinely admire her work ethic, as someone with none of her own. She’s generally been friendly, and I respect her lack of a lot of hangups. And while being supportive of Carla is a thing that we ‘should’ be able to expect from good people in society, well, it ain’t like we often get it. The Willisverse has been pretty great on the whole, sure, but society isn’t.
That, *and she’s entertaining*. She’s a character – that’s her job.
Even if she were a real person, she isn’t obligated to be an excellent person in every way, because at some level, we exist for ourselves.
Well stated. I see more in her relationship with Carla than just ‘supporting the fringe character’, though – Carla talks sense to her, and is herself non-threatening and non-judgemental. All while pretending to not really care. I think Sal needs that, a lot.
Valid. I’d welcome an opportunity to see more Carla on panel, although some of that may just be echoes of appreciation for Ultra Car.
looking objectively what does anyone have going for them? one pile of particles is very much the same as any other pile of particles and Sal doesn’t even have that going for her because objectively we aren’t even talking about a person but rather a fictional construct.
in a very real sense we cannot look at her objectively because she is not even an object but merely an Idea, the only way we can view her is through the emotional lens of our imaginations because that is the only place that ‘Sal’ can be said to exist.
I just noticed – is there no woman below a C-cup in the Walkyverse?
Dina, yes, but she’s more of a big girl than a woman.
I think Daisy. Probably Roz, too. She looks thin.
Dorothy too right?! She is a skinny poindexter.
Sarah? Never been very good at judging cup sizes. Or I’ve been lied to a lot. Or both, most likely.
Eh, most people don’t actually know their accurate cup size. A certain size for one company isn’t guaranteed to be the same size at another company, despite there being an actual formula to figure out measurements. And because of that formula, if a 34C is a little too big (for example) the next size to try would actually be a 34B. But I suppose there could be some vanity to it: 34C implies you’re thinner and have bigger boobs when compared to a 34B. Basically, I don’t know any adults who lie about their bra size, it’s much more likely to not know ones true size. Going to different stores on the same day and getting measured often results in different answers, even!
Oy. Change all 34B to 36B*…
I have at least one friend who very definitely lies about hers. Actress, insists that inflating her cup size helps her land jobs. Which seems absurd considering she mostly does corporate training vidoes these days, but the older I get the more I realize absurdity is the norm, not the exception.
I keep Legos in my pockets during job interviews. Whatever works, I guess!
I decline to speculate as to whether her, ah, inflation policy is merely a placebo effect that helps her self confidence. As you said, whatever works.
Have you ever heard the song “Dance 10, Looks 3”, which is the polite name, from “A Chorus Line”? It talks EXACTLY about this, specifically how plastic surgery allowed a talented dancer to start getting jobs. And I apologize in advance for the Bad Language appearing in this comment.
Tits and ass
Had the bingo-bongos done
Suddenly I’m getting national tours
Tits and ass won’t get you jobs
Unless they’re yours
One of my favorite shows, actually. I do think the principle that song espouses applies more to stage shows and movies than training vidoes, though. Or at least I’d like to think so – having to get implants to nab a role an HR piece about sexual harassment would be a little too ironic for my tastes.
Nono, I could see that. If you’re gonna make a video about sexual harassment, the main character should at least seem sexually harassable.
(Meant tongue-in-cheek, pls don’t murder me)
I’m going to have to pass that thought along, she’ll get a good laugh out of the reasoning.
And Robin. Maybe Joyce, though she dresses pretty conservatively, so it’s hard to say what she’s got under those sweater vests.
Joyce looks pretty stacked in the about page.
If I had to guess based on that page.
Dorothy: A
Sarah: B
Sal, Amber and Billy: C
Joyce: At least a D
Though, honestly I haven’t thought about drawing consistent bust sizes in a while, so I could be wrong.
Actually its really hard to tell with Dorothy shes very covered up.
Maybe use Slipshines for reference?
Let’s not go so far down this road, perhaps.
You think? Or at least not be so sexist about it and start speculating on the guys’ endowments while we’re at it.
Like I see where you’re coming from Rich, and I apologize to anyone offended by my liberal use of the work stacked, but we’re having a pretty non-sexualized, non-judgmental discussion about parts of people’s bodies that are readily visible, and need to be de-sexualized anyways.
So yeah.
Meh. I’m unoffended, but I can predict that someone else may be.
Or maybe I just think it would be funny to put the male cast members through the same kind of comparison test.
Well, you have concrete data on, what, a grand total of three of the men? The rest would have to be wild guesses.
Human female cup sizes are easier to guess than male equipment sizes. Not to mention sometimes men’s pants bunch in such a way that makes their equipment look larger than it is. Got chased around the place for waking Daniel the Human while examining this occurrence. Apparently I still need to learn about something called “personal boundaries”. I get told that from time to time…
Somewhere someone has already put Joyce on a rule 34. How dare they have such bad thoughts involving hanky panky! 🙁
That’s… kind of demeaning to Dina?
She wears a dinosaur hat and has crippling social anxiety. She doesn’t really strike me as a fully matured individual, a lot like Joyce and her…well, everything.
Don’t be an ass
Apparently I can’t be anything else, judging from the other comments down there.
I mean, you could read into it that I meant Dina had some issues to work through before she can function completely in society [which is what I meant, though deviating from physical appearance was my own fault], but no, let’s all put on our Offended Pants.
Heh, insulting Dina is never a good idea around here.
On a more serious note, having a condition like Asperger’s isn’t a matter of being immature – it has more to do with just being different. Dina is never going to ‘grow out’ of this – she’ll just learn coping mechanisms (coat over head, for instance), and get a better grasp on how to interact with others. So, you’re right that Dina has issues to work out, but it’s not quite the same as just being immature (Walky is the poster child for the latter case).
As for people taking offense, that’s probably because some of them are in the same boat as Dina, and are tired of being treated like children, so they react on behalf of a fictional character.
She is functioning just as well as any major character in this comic, and better than some.
Social anxiety does not make you an immature individual.
I have crippling anxiety that keeps me from walking out of the house without throwing up sometimes, but I can put adults in their places for acting like children, even if they’re 40 years older. It’s just a primitive characteristic, it’s not like we’re mentally handicapped.
And I use a Hello Kitty cup and have panic attacks. Dina’s fine, even with social anxiety (which I wouldn’t say is crippling for her, she just doesn’t like crowds, she came to the party which is more than I could have done). These are freaking college students, they all have growing up to do. Even the more mature ones like Dorothy still have things to learn.
Dina is a women, an adult women, who is trying to expand her current boundaries. That speaks of being mature to me.
“I use a Hello Kitty cup” Who are you and why are we not friends.
Dina has fewer issues than most of the other characters and is arguably more mature than them as well, seeing as she’s accurately determined what her weak points are and begun improving them.
That still doesn’t change her physical development level. I mean, she could have children (and would probably be an excellent parent) if she had any desire to do so. You might think of her as emotionally immature, but she’s an adult, physically.
Wow Fuck You.
See, I was going to try to write out this whole attempt at being mature, and explaining to The Thing why they were being offensive, but your comment sums up the point so nicely.
Lol, all the nerves touched in this comment thread
I’m twenty-six years old, and people still treat me like a child. I have an anxiety disorder as well, and even doctors who know my age treat me like I’m ten.
Dina is a fully-functioning adult. Just because she’s somewhat flat-chested and likes her hat and cereal doesn’t make her any less of an adult. It’s insulting as fuck.
Now I just need a couple people to start railing against Roz and Danny, and I’ll be able to fill my Dumbing of Age Comments BINGO card!
Dammit, I hate Roz and Danny!
Am I helping?
Oops, I forgot my newest space here: “Hating on Becky”
I’d think that’s the center square.
Dammit, I hate Bec…ah hell, I can’t bring myself to say that even in jest. You’ll have to get your card filled elsewhere, Rycan.
Dina’s social anxiety isn’t crippling. In fact, she’s more outgoing than Amber is. She doesn’t have a lot of confidence in her social skills, and that’s mostly due to the fact that she has a hard time relating to others. It’s mostly that Dina’s quiet-natured and has autism. Ethan registered it as social anxiety, but she was going through sensory overload.
huh, I should have picked up on that. Yeah, it does look a lot like sensory overload. Thanks for pointing that out.
X|
I think you’re using ‘mature’ wrong.
Probably going to be the only person to agree with you.
Just wanted to let ya know I agree.
Huh, everyone in this string of replies so far has called you out on one aspect while at the same time ignoring the other aspect of your comment.
Dina is little more than a big girl as opposed to a woman, as her actions and words have thus far shown. She seems to have the withdrawn, introverted maturity of an early high school student.
I just can’t get over the replies that are as childish as it gets, saying you’re being an ass and just saying “fuck you”.
Well, the original comment was primarily about appearance (since it was actually about characters cup sizes). Even so, the second one points out her dinosaur hat (how dare someone wear something they like as an adult) and her social anxiety (adults never have that). Finally, it ends with comparing Dina’s maturity to one other character, ignoring that there pretty much isn’t a college aged character in this comic that isn’t still in the process of maturing (DUMBing of Age, y’know?). Funnily enough, most people continue growing emotionally and mentally most of their lives and are constantly evolving (wasn’t there a whole Leslie comic about this?).
Anyhow, my original comment (which admittedly didn’t go into much detail) was mostly just that it’s kinda mean to decide someone doesn’t qualify as an adult, especially based on appearance alone (which is all the first comment brought up).
All excellent points, but my comment was less about Dina and more about the number of people being blatantly childish in response to a comment shit Dina’s maturity level.
Dina’s also got a plan for her adult life, or seems to. That’s way more than we can say for Danny – but we’re coded to accept Danny’s continued growing up, and for good reason – Danny is an adult with more shit to figure out (Including ‘what the fuck am I gonna do with my life’). You could fairly call Dina *and the other characters* kids, but to single out Dina by reasoning of her appearance, and her difficulty interacting with lots of people, is kinda fucked up. She’s legally an adult, who has some growing up to do. Who doesn’t? I know 60 year olds hwo need to grow up in some respects – they’re still adults.
Danny is Danny.
While you make good points, especially regarding Dina having plans(which puts her ahead of half the cast, easily), she is still immature.
More importantly, my comment was meant to bring attention to the childish responses garnered due to a person’s comment about Dina’s maturity.
Yes. She’s 18. Of course she’s immature. So is everyone else on the cast page. None of this makes Dina, in particular, a child.
And no, give that many of the posters in question have similar anxieties, or know those who do… there’s nothing childish in ‘fuck you.’ Impatient, maybe, but it’s a pretty valid response.
You’re sort of making the tone argument, which I don’t think is going to get you a lot of traction around here.
Not making a tone argument, my post in this string was meant to call out people who respond to allegations of immaturity by one person’s view point by literally saying “Don’t be an ass” and “Wow Fuck You”. Every single character in this comic, by definition, are immature, legal adult or no.
What the hell do introversion and being withdrawn have to do with maturity?
The answer is “Nothing” by the way.
They’re aspects that make up part of a whole. Nobody is a single trait in a vacuum. Dina is an immature person. Whether it comes from lack of experience and wisdom or lack of socializing, she is still immature. It’s not a negative thing in her case, merely a trait.
If you could be less of an ass, it’d be appreciated.
pretty sure I cannot, in this case.
I don’t understand what breast size has to do with maturity. Breasts exist for one purpose and one purpose only: The feeding of said person’s offspring. The size of the breast does not matter, as long as it has working milk ducts. Since Dina is post pubescent, I am assuming that her breasts are fully functioning. Though, some people are born with breast anomalies, (breasts that do not function the way nature hoped they would) but that doesn’t make their bodies any less mature.
Attempting to correlate breasts with mental health does not make sense. I believe that Dina is mentally mature. She just isn’t socially mature. And that’s fine. But that has nothing to do with her body.
Again, breast size has nothing to do with maturity. Some breasts continue to look very prepubescent, but are still able to feed offspring.
kind of late , but Dina has never displayed symptoms of Social Anxiety.
Ethan misread her symptoms because this is how Amber reacted , and Amber has/ had social anxiety.
Socially Dina has been mostly fearless except save for Ruthless , just non-comprehending.
Dinas problems are cognitive processing, not emotional . She is actually a very level-headed person.
We know from canon she is “non-neurotypical”
Cognitive-Sensory processing Disorders are very common in people in ASD, including facial recognition. Willis telegraphed this . She isnt under the coat because she is having negative emotions. Its the opposite.
Shes having a wonderful time and overtaxed her ability to process other people and their faces.
( She has stated a number of times she in enjoying herself and wants to stay. She is an adult, we should take her as her word . )
What she needs is a cool pair of colored sun glasses.
http://www.autism.com/understanding_irlens
“There is growing evidence, based on both research and personal reports, that many autistic individuals see their world in a maladaptive, dysfunctional manner. Researchers at U.C.L.A. and the University of Utah have found evidence of abnormal retinal activity in autistic individuals. Additionally, there are many visual problems which are often associated with autism, such as reliance on peripheral vision; tunnel vision; hypersensitivity to light; ..”
“Some of the symptoms are: (1) Sensory Overload caused by bright lights, fluorescent lights, and sunlight. Lighting is stressful; the body reacts as if it is being attacked or bombarded, resulting in negative biochemical changes. These can result in headaches, anxiety, and other physical symptoms. (2) Environmental Distortions, when the individual sees the world in a distorted fashion, so that objects appear as blurry, moving, shifting, changing, or even disappearing. People might look frightening, stairs might be seen as a slide without steps, and walls and floors might appear to swing and sway. This creates problems with sustained attention, eye contact, gross and small motor coordination, ability to interpret facial expressions, and poor social skills. ”
As far as social immaturity you have confused cause and effect.
She has shown evidence of a Theory-of-Mind disorder common in ASD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind
That means she has trouble modeling how other people think feel and react in her head. Like most of us she started with the premise that most people think like her. The problem is that this is wrong, since she is non-neurotypical. Until recently this has held back her social interaction
This creates a catch-22. Its hard to figure out how people are different from you , without adequate Theory-of-mind brain processing. I’m also told its exhaustive manually.
Shes only recently started to figure this out, and see how others see her , and factor this in. That’s actually a huge step and a sign of maturity.
Demeaning, yes, but she simply isn’t drawn to look like an 18 year old woman. Raidah and company thought she was 12, and Robin’s younger sister probably did as well. Part of it is the signature hat. Take that off for once and she’d probably look more like an adult and less like a middle schooler.
And to be clear, I’m only discussing her appearance, which is by far the least relevant part of being mature.
I’m not trying to be antagonistic, but I know a couple women who have very similar builds to Dina’s, and they are in their early to mid twenties (22 and 25) and likely won’t be growing anymore.
So its a thing.
Yep, and I can tell you that they get pretty damn tired of being treated like children – you can forget about “it’s a compliment to think you’re younger than you are”, because they sure as hell don’t think so.
Again, it’s partly, maybe even mostly the hat that makes her look young. That’s not part of her physique unless the damn thing’s grown roots into her brain or something. I’m well aware that short, slender women tend to have their ages underestimated, and I’m not damn fool enough to make assumptions about real people’s ages one way or the other. I’ve been getting mistaken for 10 years older than I am since late high school, and that’s even less fun than getting carded when you’re 30.
People still mistook me for a highschooler even after I had a kid. I am even now about the size of your average 8th grader. Some grown-ups are small, but I’m still a grown up, not a child.
Since the original question was about character dimensions, wouldn’t it be natural that a character with slight bodily proportions would have, well, slight bodily proportions?
Dina is fictional, and her look is a deliberate design decision by Willis. I cannot hurt her feelings, and I’m not going to pretend she looks the same age as the other freshmen when it’s been made into a recurring plot point several times already. Perhaps that’s reinforcing the unfair stereotype of “short & slender = young girl” for me, but honestly, I think it’s mostly the hat. She certainly didn’t look like a kid to me in the Walkyverse. Her last appearance in Shortpacked makes her look like an adult.
No one is saying she looks like the other freshmen. People are pointing out that deciding the maturity of someone and how you describe/treat them based on their appearance (or even their choice in clothes) is disrespectful (and especially an issue with women, who’s appearance is scrutinized severely; the whole original comment was on cup size).The deliberate choice of showcasing something like that happen to Dina may well be to point out that problematic behavior, similar to how many of the characters are being used (Joyce and religion, the twins and subtle racism, etc). It’s not a matter of offending the character, but a matter of pointing out how this happens in real life and shouldn’t.
I’m 21, and my sister is 14. I am a 34 I, she is a 34 AA. People constantly think she is the elder sister. Boobs mean nothing.
Things like “C-cup” are pretty darn near meaningless when the people are as far away from realistic human proportions as these guys are. The differences in circumference measurements that look right on a normal human would look bizarre on a Willis human, and vice versa. It’s a stylization thing.
Fair point. Limits of the medium, really.
+1 to both yall.
Yeah, well, considering how Willis attacked those of the audience who didn’t instantly recognize Becky’s hairstyle as representing something real people have rather than being a made-up comic-book stylization like Mike’s, especially early on when it kept switching directions (he’s been better about this lately), I don’t think your argument is really valid.
BINGO!
*ahem*
Carry on.
Based on your other comments I can take a guess at what you mean by this. My comment does not even remotely resemble “hating on Becky” – it is simply pointing out that Willis’s art style is less realistic, particularly in the area of character hairstyles, especially Becky and Mike’s (I still have honestly no idea which direction Mike’s hair is supposed to point), than he believes it is.
She said bingo, not bongo. She was agreeing with you…
Not really (also happen to be male, but that’s neither here nor there).
oh, sorry! I misread
( Also sorry! I should use they more; I tend to default to she/her a lot, bad habit ><;; )
*misunderstood, not misread.
Hey, it was a stretch. But I got a free lollipop!
Ah see context is important with your snide comment. Willis would not have done so if there people hadn’t immediately started insulting it in a completely over the top fashion. It’s an undercut, and yes, a lot of people have undercuts. He was attempting to get the audience to stop shitting on a hair style that a lot of people have. No people may not have hair that looks exactly like Becky’s. However it is an undercut. I don’t see how you couldn’t have known that unless you just don’t pay attention to women’s short hair do’s these days, which is entirely possible.
No-one provided a picture of an undercut that looks even close to Becky’s. And Mike provides an absolutely unassailable precedent for “Willis doesn’t bother even modeling hairstyles as three-dimensional shapes, let alone determining whether they are physically possible”
Which is a perfectly valid thing to do as a comic artist, to be clear. Just a bit tacky to complain when people don’t recognize what you’ve drawn a caricature of.
The closest ones I can find are this and this
Man I hope I did those friggin hyperlinks right.
Now Mike’s hair, I have never seen anyone have ever. Has Willis tried to say what his hairstyle is a caricature of? I’d be curious to google those images!
Mike’s hair isn’t based on anything. I designed him when I was eight and he hasn’t really changed his look.
I thought that was the case. I love his look. ^.^ I like to imagine him getting up super early, getting out the hair gel and hair spray and getting his look just right. It makes me giggle.
look if that’s what you fucking wanted
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/8e/fa/71/8efa71a64b4319cd8c8088ac18d6e348.jpg
http://www.short-haircut.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Undercut-hair-color.jpg
http://trendy-hairstyles-for-women.com/pictures/hairstyles/short-hairstyles-for-women/short-undercut-hairstyles/undercut-hairstyle-for-women-8_b.jpghttps://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/dc/7b/5f/dc7b5f48c6074cba83a4b6938d2c842e.jpg
Google Image Search for “undercut woman.” There are literally hundreds of these.
And be a little more self-aware about calling me “just a bit tacky” when you grind this dumb axe whatever chance you get.
Maybe that’s what Becky’s hair looks like in your head, but it’s really not what it looks like on the page – especially in the early days when it pointed in the same direction relative to the camera no matter how her head was turned.
What’s tacky is claiming something that is fundamentally about your art is a sexist attack on a character. With Mike as an established character, it was entirely reasonable for people to assume it wasn’t intended as a depiction of a real hairstyle.
Please please please please find for me an instance of Becky’s hair behaving in the way you describe. There were no “early days” in which her post-haircut hairstyle was not asymmetrical.
And if you were attacking my art and not people with that haircut, maybe I wasn’t referring to you when I said whatever you think I said.
Mike’s hair is OBVIOUSLY NOT A REAL HAIRSTYLE. Therefore, shitting on it is fine. All of us make fun of it. I’m assuming you’re a DOA reader exclusively, but I can tell you that when Mike has appeared in the other comics, his hair is giggled about. But when there is a hairstyle that can actually be created on a real person, and you mock it, it’s gonna make people with a similar look feel bad.
As I recall, you directly quoted someone (not me) saying “nobody has hair like that”, which was in context clearly about your failure to depict a realistic hairstyle, and construed it as an attack on real readers who had undercuts. And, yes, it was always asymmetrical, but if her head turned slightly to the left or right, the hair stayed in the same spot. here’s an example. She turns her head to the left, and her eye nearly goes under her hair.
Also, seriously, you’ve got nothing to say about Mike’s hair?
After reading that first paragraph, I’m having trouble believing you’re not just trolling now. That is some tenuous stuff. Whatever, man.
I don’t even know what the Mike thing is about.
See you next time you find a chance to pull out your hateboner.
“Mike’s hair is OBVIOUSLY NOT A REAL HAIRSTYLE. Therefore, shitting on it is fine.” – I’m not even shitting on it. The point is that since Willis obviously draws characters whose hairstyles aren’t realistic, therefore assuming a character’s hairstyle isn’t meant to be a real hairstyle is not shitting on it.
The only hairstyle that isn’t real is Mike’s. Because that’s how he’s always looked.
It’s a fucking undercut. It is clearly recognizable as an undercut. That’s all this was ever fucking about.
Back then, shitloads of people were saying that Becky’s new hairstyle was the epitome of ugly. Some of them were also being a bit sexist and/or homophobic about it, like “That’s not a hairstyle that women should wear” or “Does she really need to flaunt her lesbianism like that?”. Understandably, this upset people with similar hairstyles.
And then someone, who may or may not have been you, said that people shouldn’t be upset, because Becky’s hairstyle was physically impossible and didn’t actually exist.
Again: it’s a fucking undercut. When shitloads of people said it was ugly, it would be a reasonable assumption that they were talking about asymmetrical undercuts in general, not a specific asymmetrical undercut that is a perfect copy of Becky’s and behaves in exactly the same way every time forever.
You’re pulling up literally the second strip that featured Becky’s new haircut, where for a single panel it becomes extra obvious that this is a hand-drawn, stylized, 2D interpretation of the Dumbiverse, and not a photorealistic 3D model. You’re talking about the “early days” as if this was a regular occurrence back then (it wasn’t).
We are supposed to understand that everyone in DoA actually does have nostrils, even if they’re consistently drawn without them. We are supposed to understand that nobody’s head has actually shrunk, even if they’re drawn smaller now than five years ago. And we are supposed to understand that Becky has a perfectly normal undercut that obeys the laws of physics, even if a tiny minority of panels seem to contradict the vast majority.
This is a bit of a tangent but HOLY SHIT it’s called an undercut! I’ve been trying to get my hair cut correctly forever and I never had a name for the style – I would just go to the stylist and try to explain and then give up after 3 hours of saying, “No, shorter in the back, I really mean it.” These links are the best ever!!!
Is this the one you modeled Becky’s off of?
http://trendy-hairstyles-for-women.com/photo-galleries/short-wavy-hairstyles/picture/1
( Screw the Haters. Its Looks awesome on Becky. This is how I imagined it when I first saw it, and I never heard of an undercut before! So, it isnt your art. They are looking at your comic wrong. And They have shitty taste in womens haircuts.
But I hope the haters dont lock you into never letting Becky play with this style.
Yeah, the cut you gave her is great. There are so many fun ways becky can Play with it on a daily basis. I like to imagine her using it, to make it even more Becky.
Would Becky add a few tasteful Green stripes to her Bangs to shock joyce?
( i bet she would ) .
I’m giving you my opinion because you should know in this sea of hate youve gotten , some of us think its awesome.
More to the point, youve drawn good-story telling with it
This cut really does embody her brashness , and comfort in her own skin.
( Why would Becky get a conformist haircut now?
Thats whats unrealistic.
Joyce is supposed to over-react to the cut— shes a formerly sheltered home-schooled Christian fundamentalist. Seems like a large vocal section of the fandom is just as sheltered to Geometric hairstyles. Its a full blown moral panic )
I had an sidecut – its sidecut, when its only on one side – once. My other hair was longer than Beckys, but yes. It is a look real people have.
Yeah no.
I made this mistake myself a while back when Willis made a twitter post about the reaction to her haircut, because I could not possibly believe that anyone could be so awful as to hate on someone just for a haircut, so “logically” Willis was just bashing anyone who disliked Becky.
And it turned out that, no really, there were commenters talking about how they stopped feeling sympathy for Becky because of her haircut. That was a genuine thing put in the comment section.
Dina is the same age as all the other freshmen. Her level of physical development isn’t going to change until she gets gray hair and wrinkles.
Grown women who happen to be on the smaller side tend not to like being referred to as children. 🙁
Same with grown adults that happen to have Asperger’s or something similar.
Yup.
Sal?
Sal has a very lean athletic build. A lean athletic body,will reduce all bodyfat overall ,including breasts. But they may have a bigger contrast.
I think Sal carries an ample A. She carrys it well.
I think a lot of minor characters are A and Bs
Its a classic mistake to look at body-parts separate from the body they are on. Aesthetically it always matters more how it looks put-together on a person , not taken in isolation. And your attitude toward your body counts much more. Confidence, and feeling like you belong in your own skin, trumps flawculture.
I have 3 sisters and growing up they would always lineup and compare random parts as “too big”, “too small” nose,legs , arms, breasts, ass.. you name it. Its easy to get sucked into that nonsense. Eventually I snapped out of it because they totally overlooked I was a Boy. ( I’m supposed to have wide muscular thighs. Thats my bodyframe, If it would be weird if I didnt. Im not trying to get on vogue. )
Its nonsense because cross-comparing is meaningless . What matters is how it fits on you. Which is usually just fine.
Thats how a person sees a minor flaw that isnt even there, get plastic surgery to “fix” the problem. Then they’ve upset the whole natural aesthetic balance they possessed, and end up getting 10 more unnecessary surgeries .
I think most men are much happier with their lady’s lovers bodies, than the owners are. When men talk in private about their ladies bodies, its usually to complement.
Breasts aren’t just fat, and no, athletic body types don’t always have small breasts. Because part of it is HORMONES. I have fluctuated weight up and down, with no (real) change to my cup size.
Speaking of which, “A” is meaningless in a vacuum. I guarantee Sal isn’t an actual A, precisely because she has a small frame, and cup sizes are relative. 30G is 32F is 34E is 36D is 38C. If she WOULD be a 36A but has a 30 or 28 ribcage, then she’s going to be more like 30D or 28E.
Also, as a queer woman, men’s appreciation of my body matters exactly 0% to me, and I wish society in general would stop trying to reassure women that our low self-esteem, caused by society sucking, can be or should be soothed/fixed by random dudes telling Cosmo they think women look prettier without makeup.
LMFAO, is that why I’m 31 and flat chested? Because I haven’t matured mentally? Damn, I didn’t know there was a correlation there. Look out, world, I’m gonna start doing housework. Maybe I’ll grow bewbs
Um. Sal and Malaya are under C cups, for starters. Then we got Dina and Dorothy. Becky I think. Carla. There are plenty of them.
I know. It’s a storm in a d-cup though.
Everyone else has already addressed the many problems with this comment so I will just add that there’s no such thing as a “C cup” in a vacuum. Cup sizes are relative to bra bands. The bigger the band, the smaller the letter that gets assigned to the very same amount of breast tissue.
Let’s say Sal is a 28/30 band size to Billie’s 38. (I think Billie has a larger frame than Sal, I’d say she was a 32 or 34 at her skinniest.) Billie’s breasts are visibly larger, but they might actually share a cup size — because a 30D is the same volume as a 38A. Billie as a 38D or DD is the same or virtually the same letter, but four or five times the tissue.
Also, as a rich woman, Billie may be the only girl wearing the correct bra size. Victoria Secret tends to squeeze you into what they carry, which stops at DDDD/”G”, by putting you in your “sister” size of a few band sizes up and a few cup sizes down. Billie probably does most of her shopping at higher-end places, where you’re more likely to be sized correctly and then put into European or UK bras which have on average more cup sizes available.
It’s not fool proof — high end lingerie designers and stores suffer from the same “we only want to cater to model-proportioned women” defect as the rest of the fashion world, so even stores like Nordstrom and Macy’s (high upper middle class prices) stock only a little of the bigger-cups. There’s definitely a societal association where larger breasts = fake, tacky, trashy. But Bille is still more likely than average to be correctly sized.
Anyway the long and short of this is that Marcie is probably about a D, because her band is 40/42; but characters like Dorothy and Sal are probably ALSO D’s because they’re skinny. Conversely, Joyce might be a C, because she’s probably a 34 or so. (If she’s more like 32, then D again.)
Why is Marcie’s shirt words upside down and inside out?
Since it says “If you can read this I’m skating”, I wanna guess that it’s because that’s the kind of thing a lot of shirts say.
It’s because if she’s skating, she’s also likely doing something like a 360, which is how you’d be able to read her shirt.
Which is what I gathered from when the artwork for that outfit showed up on the tumblr.
I was about to say, “Well, she IS blind,” before I realized she’s deaf. If you’re wondering how I got that confused; in my defense, I AM watching Daredevil right now. Been doing a Netflix marathon.
Also, I’m fully aware that blind people put their clothes on correctly.
she is also not deaf
Hmmm. Willis says not deaf. Doesn’t say mute, not deaf. Way to encourage whoever it was yesterday that was speculating that she can speak but chooses not to. Suitably evil of you.
i have said she’s mute roughly eleventy billion times
It comes up every time she appears and people still miss it.
at this point every strip featuring Marcie should include a big sign with the word MUTE on it pointing to Marcie.
Well maybe you should try for Twelvity Billion Time.
Worst part is, I actually KNEW that. I absolutely knew she was mute, not deaf. And I totally and completely forgot that fact. My bad, Willis. Sorry.
Go Straight To Jail. Do No Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200.
Marcie is not deaf. And she was not always mute, either.
I’d forgotten how adorable L’il Marcie was.
I question the accuracy of that statement.
No, look, I added it all up. I didn’t even know eleventy million was a real number, but the calculator says it right here!
Well, that’s great and all, but you said BILLION, not MILLION. So your like eleventy times off.
goddammit, nothri
LOL!
There is a tshirt idea , in there somewhere. Marcie signing “eleventy billion and 1”
“UN-suitably evil” could be a slipshine pun, or that comic of Joel Watson dresing you
Aw, you spoiled it. I was looking forward to watching the speculation get out of hand. Boo.
IIRC, the last time this came up, the issue got confused by someone in the comments saying the term “mute” is somehow offensive because it allegedly implies unable to communicate rather than unable to speak, and asserting that Marcie is not mute because she can use sign language.
I read this comic drunk most of the time, and I’ve picked up that she’s physically mute, not deaf. I fear for your reading comprehension skills.
Yeah, I knew that. I just forgot. Kind of ashamed of it, actually.
Oh, no, I wasn’t aiming that at you. Your explanation of why you forgot made sense. I do that sort of thing too, all the time.
People are being too harsh about this. Also, as someone with a learning disability, memory for detail is totally separate from reading comprehension.
I am actually a little bit drunk now, and was originally trying for dry humor aimed at someone else. Reading it now, I see how the tone doesn’t come across. I’m so sorry about how insulting it reads, I was really trying to make a joke, but, well, I suck at them.
Gah, no worries, man. It’s all good.
My tone came off more serious than I meant it to as well, no worries!
My impression from the beginning of book 5, was that Marcie was not born mute (we can see her speaking in the Sal flashback). We also know she’s not deaf. (She makes a joke to Malaya that Malaya makes her wish she was deaf). We can probably assume that’s she’s mute in the present from when Sal says that they learned sign language together because “stuff happens.”
Sal states that Marcie is mute twice. So.
…OH GODDAMNIT THAT’S RIGHT.
I thought it was pretty obvious she wasn’t deaf because Sal and others OFTEN say things without signing them, and Marcie reacts or signs something that indicates she heard what was said even when they’re not facing her (so it can’t be reading lips). I do wish we could get a backstory on Marcie though, so we can learn why she stopped talking (whether it’s a physical trauma or a psychological choice). I wouldn’t even have realized she used to be able to talk if it hadn’t been for Bicycle Bill’s reminder (so thank you Bill).
Thank heavens for Marcie. That would have gotten unbelievably ugly.
I could’ve stood to see it to a finish. It’s either just gonna happen again or get sublimated into yet more slipshineage, otherwise.
For Sal’s sake, I hope Marcie caught the first panel. Hopefully that might do just a teensy bit of good.
If Marcie walked only caught this from that point, Malaya looks like the villain of the piece.
Except anyone whose hung out with Malaya knows her well enough to know she doesn’t just start fights out of nowhere. Malaya’s too indifferent for that.
I’m pretty sure Marcie can figure out what happened, even if she didn’t.
Why else would Sal be trying to hide what happened?
Trying to avoid Marcie getting mad with both of them. No matter who’s wrong or right, it’s reasonable to expect Marcie to be less than thrilled with two friends of hers seriously trying to hurt one another. “Roughhousing” is a pretty pathetic explanation, but it would have maybe gotten both of them off that hook if Malaya had played along.
Aw…. but someone was just about to get all sorts of rekt.
Are we not going to see Sal hit her back?
Not a single time since DoA started. I feel something important will break the day she finally gets a punch back.
20 Years From Now
President of the United States: To all the people of America, and the nations of the world, I am happy to say that we have finally reached world peace. Although fragile, and liable to break at the slightest provocation, the leaders of our world will strive to make sure that this state lasts for as long as
Malaya: FUCK THAT!!! *presses button that launches all missiles at everyone*
President: …Goddamnit, Malaya.
Also
President: Okay who let a 18 year old college girl in here?
President: Especially one who should be 38 by now.
Malaya is a very angry Peter Pan
I won’t grow up!
(I won’t grow up!)
You son of a bongo!
(You son of a bongo!)
Even though I go to school
(Even though I go to school)
I will punch you in the face!
(Fuck your rhyming!)
…The censoring here confuses me.
It has been like this for a while, because people like to overuse derogatory words aimed at ladies far too often, and it makes the comment section slightly less horrifying.
Malaya annoys me on a fundamental level I can neither explain nor justify.
In my case, my dislike of Malaya is because we haven’t seen much of any redeeming qualities in her. Most of the jerks and other assorted unpleasant characters in Willis’s comics that aren’t villians (and even some of them) have a bit more to them beyond “I’m an asshole!” Malaya isn’t really showing that.
Well, outside of obvious villians like Blake, there’s Mary, Malaya, Mike, Carla, and I’d even say Ruth, Sal and to a lesser extent, Roz and Billie. ‘Alpha bongo attitudes’ run rampant in this comic. Even Sarah has a lot of prickliness to weave through to get to her good parts.
Even in Shortpacked Malaya’s good side was never really shown. She and Ultra-Car were in a relationship based on mutual hate of everybody else, and the two of them could only be nice to each other. That’s not really the makings of an endearing character. The only good thing she did was stand up to Leslie, but basically Malaya is only nice to people she may have a romantic interest in, far as I can tell.
Malaya is very nice to people she likes. She was supportive of leslie, even confronted leslie’s mother over her poor treatment of her daughter after they broke up, was completely respectful of Ultra-Car’s sexuality and limitations and even changed her own behaviour to make Ultra-Car happy, encouraged Leslie to just tell Robin how she felt since she knew it was what leslie really wanted. And she’s pretty secure in who she is and doesn’t give a shit what others think about her.
And in DOA she’s attempting to learn sign language so she can communicate with Marcie.
Crap,I’m should’ve updated before posting. Sorry, winter.
No probs. I’m just happy Malaya’s getting her due. She’s caustic, but then she’ll turn around and do something really kind.
Oh, hell I’M nice to people who happen to please me. That’s not a startlingly high bar to clear.
She’s willing to learn another language to be able to understand Marcie. That’s at least one good quality, and I don’t think people give her enough credit for it.
Don’t forget the irony of Sal being the one to suggest she learn ASL in the first place. Wasn’t Malaya’s idea, although it might have come to her in time.
Positive qualities of Malaya.
-Marcie seems reasonable, tuff, but also compassionate. She likes Malaya, ergo.
-Malaya decided to take on some weird psycho trying to ruin their fun by herself.
-Malaya kept on going even after slamming into a car.
-Malaya is good at roller derby.
-Malaya decided to learn sign language after Sal, the bongo who was insulting her suggested she learn it. Showing she responds to helpful criticism even if it is give by bad people
-Malaya obviously doesnt like bullies
-Malaya doesnt like bullies that are full of themselves.
-Malaya doesnt need validation from other people, especially those who treat her like dirt….or cumstains
-Malaya is willing to fight any crazy angry bullies who think they have a right to force themselves into her life.
Anyone can be unlikable when you dont see much of them and they are seen opposed to a beloved character(sal). But it takes some strong empathy to enjoy the good things about someone who so far has had a target painted on their back.
She is kind of Schrodinger’s catty teen.
Fortunately, Child Protective Services rescued her from that damn box before that radioactive atom decayed.
Honestly, this whole incident has really endeared her to me. I’ve been waiting forever for someone to be as unimpressed by Sal’s highschool tier “too cool for school” nonsense as I am.
Sal is really, really bad at making nice.
And even worse at making nice-nice.
Not her fault. Malaya wasn’t ready to make nice.
Sal was less ready, frankly
Fine, they’re both at fault.
agreed
To an extent, but the percentage of the fault that Malaya carries for actually biting when Sal is picking a fight with her is rather minuscule.
Malaya walked in to Sal, somebody who’s already not gotten along with her, calling her a cumstain. I wouldn’t expect anybody to be receptive to half-hearted “be my friend, you bongo” attempts at that point. Sal set the mood.
She literally opened with calling her a–Okay, I doubt Willis wants that to come up on searches, but you read it 😛
Her olive branch had metaphorical thorns all over it, and she grabbed Malaya and shoved her up against a wall. Not cool at all.
Maybe because Sal was trying to beat her over the head with an olive branch?
Uh, let’s not act like Sal is blameless here. Absolutely NOTHING about her behavior in this meeting indicated that she had any real desire to make nice, and Malaya was entirely within her rights to tell her to fuck off.
Go Malaya. Sal brought that upon herself by escalating the situation. It’s just self-defense at that point.
For some reason Sal’s pose in panel 3 makes me think, “That’s it girl, now more pout! Work it for the camera!’
I am a little curious how good Malaya is, and how much of this was Sal not taking her seriously. Sal did look primed to retaliate in a big way, but we’ll never know, I guess.
I have a feeling Sal was cocky in this one, and I think that Malaya is much stronger than Sal assumes. In a knock-down, drag-out, no-holds-barred fight, I’d probably give it to Sal, but Malaya would last longer than Sal would expect.
I’d give it to Malaya. We know she can take a few solid hits and keep fighting. Until the matchup gets entirely unbalanced, that’s the more important skill for winning a fight.
The problem is Sal thought she could keep treating like Malaya badly and when Malaya refused to bend, Sal lost her temper and did what she always does; she used violence. She honestly thought Malaya was all talk, and was not expecting Malaya to lash out physically in defense and do it well. Malaya hitting Sal so quickly speaks of experience, and if Marcie hadn’t broken them up, I think they both would have ended up worse for wear.
Sal’s lucky this version of Malaya doesn’t carry a knife around.
Or a gun.
Or has a robot girlfriend.
I don’t think Sal was doing too much thinking by today’s strip – she was letting her temper take over.
Why are we assuming anyone’s any good?
We’ve seen Amazi-Girl (mostly) beating up bros she finds up to stuff, and usually getting the drop on them. Mike hits people he can reasonably expect not to hit him back, woo, mighty conqueror. Sal has a juvie record and a big talking-game, but the crime she got nabbed for, she was armed.
Seriously, there’s no grounds to conclude that ANYONE here is actually any good in a fistfight. Joyce has been shown more clearly handling herself for crying out loud! Everyone else is mainly good at fighting eachother (no big if they all suck equally) and running their mouths.
Even if you want to claim A-G has just been lucky or sneaky while crime-fighting, Amber/Amazi-Girl beat her father in a straight fight badly enough to hospitalize him, and has canonical training in self-defense.
Marcie and Malaya both play roller derby, which is a seriously rough sport at best and a brawl on wheels if the teams decide to get nasty about things.
All three of them can reasonably be assumed to be able to handle themselves in a fight, although Malaya’s probably the worst of the three. A-G handled her easily 1-on-1, and by her own admission Marcie outperforms her (and apparently everyone else) on the track as a blocker.
You know Marcie is ten times cooler than Sal could ever hope to be, she’s just damn awesome!
Most people are multiple times cooler than Sal is. Sal is very much highschool cool from the exaggerated detached indifference to the motorcycle and that schtick just comes off as pretty toolish on an adult.
I guess Marcie’s stuck in the middle with (these) two.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofs_GyQXJ9k
Stealer’s Wheel, 1972
…And I stand by my statement of Malaya being an idiot. Sal’s trying not to escalate the situation…Not fully succeeding, but trying. Malaya just doesn’t know when to shut the fuck up, even when she’s all but TOLD to shut the fuck up.
Why do I get the feeling that Marcie’s going to be just as mad at BOTH of them? Somehow Sal’s attempt to cover for the fight seems to be trying to protect both of them. Malaya insisting that she was actually fighting and getting a “goddammit” from Sal doesn’t play as well for Malaya as she seems to think it will.
It’s partially because Sal is really really bad at being diplomacy. She’s basically going, ‘the only reason I’m not kicking your face into the wall is because I’m trying to be nice.’. That’s less of friendship and more of bullying.
True. This is more a “shut up and walk away” situation, but we know Malaya isn’t that type. Sal’s botching the olive twig offering, and I’m hardly letting her off the hook for her side of it, but there’re too many people here cheering Malaya on for giving Sal a reason for it to get to self-defense. Malaya’s just as much at fault for the situation getting here.
I think people are cheering Malaya on because she’s doing what very few other characters in this comic do; she’s actually showing Sal that you can’t just threaten your way to get what you want. Yes, in reality this is a Bad Move for the repercussions, but Malaya giving up and walking away gives Sal (the bully) what she wants.
Sal wanted Malaya under her thumb. If Malaya had just abruptly walked away, it would make her point louder than words possibly could have. But, that’s not how Malaya works.
To be clear, making Malaya walk away wasn’t Sal’s intent.
Sal wants Marcie all to herself. If Malaya walked away from hanging out with Marcie, Sal wins.
Oh, I was talking about walking away from this particular confrontation.
I don’t know if diplomacy works with Malaya, though. Sal’s method’s are definitely not fair or “right,” but it might be the only way she can deal with Malaya’s caustic nature.
Whatever Marcie does seems to work, at least.
Being antagonistic to an already antagonistic person is basically the worst way to approach them because it immediately spirals out pretty much exactly like this did.
I wouldn’t say it’s bullying. In Shadowrun, I’d call that an ork or troll with the uncouth negative quality and no points in negotiate “Doing their damnedest”.
Orks and trolls have bullying as their default form of communication in most incarnations so this isn’t really vindicating.
FWIW, Shadowrun Orcs and Trolls are victims of a magical genetic disorder called UGE, and are not significantly less intelligent or sociable than baseline humans. Despite that, they’re heavily discriminated against by society in general, partly because of the “fantasy thug” stereotype Majere just cited and partly because they’re a small minority population. They’re often economically disadvantaged because human-dominated megacorps dislike promoting metahumans beyond wage slave levels, and many wind up resorting to crime and gray/black ops shadowrunning to earn enough to survive.
Your mistaking symptoms for the cause.
If they weren’t filthy dumb orcs and stupid violent trolls in the first place, maybe people wouldn’t be rightfully scared of them, and shunning them like the genescum they are.
HUMANIS FOREVER
There is no situation on the goddamn planet where “slams someone against the wall” is not purposely escalating the situation. Regardless of what Malaya said, Sal is overstepping bounds, and it’s not Malaya’s fault for defending herself.
That’s my read on it too. A lot depends on how much of yesterday’s strip was seen and heard by Marcie.
What? Sal isn’t trying to stop the situation from escalating, she’s trying to push blame of the fight she started onto Malaya, trying to cow her into submission. Sal is attempting to establish dominance. Malaya is having none of that shit.
As I mentioned bellow, Sal is lieing because she needs Marcie’s approval. She’s acting like a three year old who got caught doing something she knows will get her in trouble so she’s trying to get out of it by lieing.
How is Sal trying to shift blame? She’s not trying to shift blame to Malaya here, she’s actually making a statement to try and make it look like they weren’t about to kill each other.
I am so sick of this fandom. I want to fight everyone who will not stop shitting on Malaya. Same people who hated on Roz so much they got the B word banned. I LIKE Sal, but goddamn no woman owes you a pleasant attitude in all situation you misogynistic assholes.
What the actual fuck are you on about?
A lot of the shitting comes from the other universe, which is annoying as hell. Especially with regards to Danny (though that has tapered out a lot)
Look at the comment that directly follows this one (assuming it doesn’t disappear).
I don’t get it since I liked Walkyverse Malaya. She was an ass, but I felt she was more interesting than people like Amber or Ethan.
I like Sal too, the times when she isn’t a violent angry teen lashing out at the world. This part of the story seems to be dealing with these characters confronting that things are different now. Joyce confronting that her upbringing may have been intolerant, Walky learning he can’t skate by on intelligence alone (hard lesson, been there. It hurts so much), Sal needs to learn to control herself and that she can’t use people (and she does, I just don’t think she realizes she is doing it.)
Okie dokie nobody is saying that women must always be pleasant at all times. Sal and Malaya are currently engaging in activity that is illegal. YES beating the shit out of people is against the law unless it is in self defense. And even then, you can still get in trouble. I typically encourage not breaking the law. So I kind of have to say no to this situation, especially since they are physically fighting over something that could be talked out reasonably. I don’t understand how that is sexist.
Yep, you caught me. My dislike of this one character due to her constant and often unecessarily abrasive behaviour that is in no way related to her gender is because I’m just a big old misogynist and secretly hate all women everywhere.
Because that’s how this works, I guess.
Malaya needs an ass kicking
I actually really like this. Malaya is definitely being an asshole, but Sal was being condescending as fuck as well, and it just seems like…this is a necessary thing for both of them. Malaya needed to establish she was not someone to push around, and Sal needed that reality check that Marcie is allowed to have friends who don’t cater to Sal, or even like her, and that if she keeps trying to bully people she doesn’t like, eventually she’s going to meet someone like Malaya, who isn’t scared of her.
Marcie is probably pretty damn pissed right now though, and I don’t blame her. They’re both going to need to kiss her ass for a month after this.
Why would Malaya have to kiss ass? She was lured here by Sal under the guise of hanging out, was rudely insulted, then condescended to, then physically assaulted when she called Sal on it. Everything after that was self-defense.
Because Marcie is not impartial. Logically, Malaya isn’t at fault in the slightest. But Sal is also Marcie’s friend, and she’s probably going to be upset that Malaya didn’t just walk away at the first insult, and the situation escalated. Marcie isn’t going to want to fully blame either of them. Malaya is likely going to feel bad because Marcie feels bad, in any case.
I change my mind, Sal is going to have to really suck up way more than Malaya, because Sal is really just being an asshole in this. Malaya will feel bad for losing her temper, but Sal should feel bad for not only escalating things but for starting it in the first place.
Marcie knows how violent Sal is though. And since she is friends with Malaya she probably knows that even though Malaya is a jerk, she also doesn’t attack people without cause. Even in the last fight Malaya was in she was defending the group against Amazi-Girl.
Damn, that’s true. You’re right, and I had forgotten that Marcie would have had the opportunity to see how Malaya’s temper works in contrast to Sal’s. Malaya needs a reason to actually become physical. Sal is more of a powder keg.
I take back my original statement completely. Sal is going to be the one who has to make it up to Marcie entirely.
Eh, at the end of the day Malaya’s the one who started the fight with Amber. Sal was cool with walking away. Hence the first “God dammit Malaya”.
Marcie is clearly very unhappy with Sal in that last panel. I think she has some level of control over Sal precisely because she doesn’t tolerate Sal getting violent.
+1
No Sal, you came here to pick a fight. You didn’t even try and make nice.
This encounter demonstrates two key points of Sal’s character:
1) Displacing her anger. She never channels her feelings at the proper target instead she targets the one who has done nothing wrong. Parents favor her brother over her? Get mad at him for being the favorite instead of them for neglecting her. Marcie found someone new to play with? Harass Malaya instead of talking it over with Marcie.
2) Sal is desperate for approval. Continuing from the above Sal can confront her parents or Marcie because she needs their approval to feel good about herself. She acts like she doesn’t care what anyone thinks but deep down it matters a great deal. This is a big part of why she can’t stand Malaya, Malaya genuinely doesn’t care what anyone thinks of her and therefore doesn’t play nice. She looked Sal right in the eye and called her on her shit. It’s demonstrated the second Marcie shows herself, Sal backs off and starts lieing to avoid the consequences of her actions but Malaya just tells it straight.
I wonder when people will catch on that Malaya is not to be provoked, you pick a fight she gives you a fight. You can’t intimidate her or scare her off.
Some women aren’t looking for anything logical, like money. They can’t be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some women just want to go fuckin’ skating..
You make a good point about Sal projecting her anger on the wrong people. I didn’t exactly realize she wanted approval that badly from her peers – talking down to Malaya surely won’t work.
Not her peers, SPECIFIC people. Her parents and Marcie. Sure, she feeds off the attention she gets from Joyce and Danny but they’re the ones she’s desperate for.
I agree with this, Sal has some real trust issues, possibly heavily increased by her Parents literally sending her away after her cry for love. She isnt willing to open herself up to people, but when she finds a person that she thinks is really important, who’s opinion matters, She sees them as a way to validate her. If this person is so good, then if they like me then it means i’m not so bad, right?
From what i’ve seen she loves her parents, Walky, and Marcie. Her parents she thinks are good but dont care about her, Walky has a heart but is a reminder of her failures and he’s just a dumby, which just leaves Marcie.
I mean they met when they were little kids, and they obviously went through something terrible together (whatever took Marcie’s voice). if she was no older than 8 (probably younger) she has known, loved, and trusted Marcie for over 10 years, more than half her life and so far Marcie is the only one that recognizes Sal’s existence. She has the potential to make some great friends (Billy, Danny, Amber) but that hasnt happened yet (and yes Billie doesnt seem close enough despite their past to be a trusted “friend” to me), but a lot of them are the problem. Hell Jason is her only intimite companion and he wont stop criticizing her. A very epitome of what she doesnt want in other people. Those who are invested in her but dont think she’s good enough.
She’s not used to people on the level she perceives Malaya as being on, “beneath her notice” as being the sort of person who genuinely could not give a fuck about Sal’s opinion of her, and not being scared of her. Sal might say she hates her reputation, but she likes the power it lends her. She’s trying to put Malaya “in her place” and establish herself as the more important person in Marcie’s life, and convince Malaya she needs Sal’s approval to be allowed to be Marcie’s friend.
Malaya isn’t having it for one minute. She might have a mouth on her, but she’s got the spine to back it up. Sal wasn’t expecting that.
Uh, getting mad at Walky for not fucking noticing, and joining their parents in being a jerk to her, is completely fucking fair. I don’t know if you noticed this, but Walky was not exactly trying to be an understanding brother. That’s fair – they’ve been seperated a while. But given some of the shit he’s said to or about Sal, he’s not some innocent party and Sal’s some weirdo for being mad at him.
I have a brother very close to my age. I love him to death, but we are both dealing with stuff and let me tell you. Siblings are not understanding. Not when you are still in the late teens, early 20s. It is unrealistic to expect him to be something that people older than him are still struggling to attempt.
Hence “That’s fair – they’ve been seperated for a while,” yes. I’m not really expecting better of someone who hadn’t seen his sister for what, 6 years? But at the same time, that doesn’t matter to the point at hand – it doesn’t change that he has been a jackass to his sister, and her anger over that is justified. Even if his behavior is understandable, so is Sal’s, which timemonkey either hasn’t noticed, or is ignoring.
There’s some truth to that, but it only explains Walky’s behavior, it doesn’t excuse it. He really has been kind of rotten about things, although Sal didn’t communicate her problems to him very well either.
Walky has been pretty nice to her since they got to college, it’s been Sal whose been blowing him off for the most part. Walky’s had moments of being a dick to her but he’s been a dick on occasion to everyone, it’s not a personal grudge like it is with Sal. He genuinely didn’t get it until she screamed it in his face.
Yes, but he was a dick to her *by repeating the same bullshit as their parents*. Or more likely, their mother, but nonetheless. It doesn’t have to be a ‘personal grudge’ for her anger to be justified, in light of that. I’m not mad at Walky here, but if you think Sal’s weird for being mad at Walky some of the time, yer cracked.
She wasn’t mad some of the time, she was mad constantly. Then she snapped after the horrible parental abuse weekend and things are getting better.
Even if she was mad constantly, THAT IS ACTUALLY FAIR. Because he has continued their parents bullshit. I mean, she WASN’T, but hey, if she were.
How did he continue their parents bullshit? He tried to talk to her, hung out with her peacefully a few times, ignored the fact that she’s breaking several laws (underage drinking and smoking at the least) and tried some typical sibling teasing. Walky ignored what their parents did to Sal, but Sal has ignored what their parents have done to Walky just as well.
…So you’re just going to forget the times he’s thrown Sal having been in jail straight into her face? I mean, that would be an obvious one. Sal hasn’t seen what their parents do to Walky a whole lot (What with not having seen their interactions in 6 years), but she also doesn’t CONTINUE it. She doesn’t extend the puppet strings that keep him dancing to a future that has him as rich, successful, and otherwise ‘proper’ except by being a ‘bad example’.
Seriously, all this because of iconoclasm? You don’t even know what you’re saying.
GodDAMMIT, Marcie >:c
Malaya hitting someone while saying, “I don’t need you to like me,” sums up her character pretty well.
The physical violence is an extreme example, but most of her behaviour is along that vector’s direction with different magnitudes.
now now lets not forget that every woman in this comic sans Dorathy has shown extreme violence.
the Freaking R.A. threw a girl across the room for talking a back to her.
perspective people.
Dina.
Yes, even Dina. I don’t imagine that Faz just stood there passively and allowed himself to be hog-tied and duct-taped.
I can imagine that pretty well, actually.
Once Dina figured out that Faz is more clueless than her, all she’d need to do would be to inform Faz that this was foreplay.
You mean the women in the core cast? Because most of the female secondary characters haven’t been violent – even Carla (somehow).
Well yea. No one cares about Rachel.
Careful. Ultra-Car might just cross universes in order to pie you for that comment.
But that doesn’t make it okay. Personally, every instance of violence we’ve seen is uncalled for and concerning…with two exceptions. Those are Sarah’s attack on Ryan and Dina’s attack on Faz. Sarah was saving Joyce, and Dina was fending off someone who was sexually harassing her. (though I think it was just in the verbal sense) Notice I’m not including Amazi-Girl and Amber. Amber’s attack on her dad…I don’t know how I feel about it. Was it satisfying? Yes. Is it okay? I don’t know. I honestly can’t remember if he was about to attack her or not. The attack by Amazi-Girl however was incredibly disturbing because I truly believe that if Danny hadn’t intervened she would’ve killed her father.
Just because it happens a lot, doesn’t excuse it.
Well my point is to hold them to a different standard. Tons of people have been violently assaulted by ” likable characters” . And most people cheered.
But I think all that is irrelevant because this is a cartoon that uses slap stick. It mirrors real life values but isn’t them. Its kinda like how I’ll call out tom and jerry for being racist, but not promoting of assault.
Because this is a unique universe where people are just more violent. At least that is my impression
‘Slap stick’? Most of the violence in DoA hasn’t been played for laughs. Wasn’t very funny when: Amber nearly killed her dad, Sarah beat up a rapist, or Sal tried to rob a store and got stabbed in the hand. This episode wasn’t very funny, either.
God damn it, Malaya.
IDK, Sal kind of deserved to be punched at this point in the night.
No, I agree. I just wanted to belong…
If Marcie doesn’t rip into Malaya in equal measure, I will be disappointed.
I hope this is the first time in webcomic history a character gives a full on silent rant that cows two people into submission.
Damn, you almost made me snort my coffee out.
How dare you defend yourself from being insulted and physically assaulted!
Like Malaya was any less at fault for this.
Malaya was not at fault for this one. Seriously, are we reading the same comic?
Couple pages ago, Malaya responded with a threat, so I assume so.
Sal used bongo! Malaya used threaten!
They’re both at fault, far as I can tell.
She responded with a threat to actual violence.
Sal insulted her. Sal condescended to her. She told Sal to fuck off. Sal grabbed her and threw her against a wall. That is when Malaya brought out a threat.
This. Sal started with a verbal insult (“cumstain”). Sal started the physical threat too (throwing Malaya against a wall). All Malaya has done is respond to being threatened, and somehow, she’s at fault?
“Where is that stain”
“You want me to kick your ass? I will kick your ass”
Malaya threw the first threat.
Timemonkey, how, at any point of this interaction, is Malaya not partially responsible? Two pages back(I’m becoming a damned parrot at this point), the conversation was literally: “Where is that *stain?” “Yo, you want me to kick your ass? I will kick your ass!”
First threat was from Malaya, which Sal let slide.
I’m not saying Sal isn’t at fault, I’ve not said that once. What I am saying is why I think Sal(from what I know of her in this comic) is acting the way she is, how she was actually trying to be nice(even if she’s normally a bongo), and how they’re both at fault. I don’t understand why you glossed over everything Malaya did to aggravate this further, while also glossing over that Sal was trying to get to know Malaya well enough to figure out why Marcie wants to be friends with Malaya.
The post above this one was meant to go further down, I clicked the wrong reply button.
No, Malaya made the first threat of violence. Two pages back.
“Where is that stain.”
“You want me to kick your ass? I will kick your ass!”
“Hello, Malaya”
“Why’d you call me here if it’s just to insult me?”
Then Sal tries to convey the reason, trying to make nice with a person she feels is poaching her friend because, due to Sal’s emotional lack of maturity, is having difficulties dealing with.
Sal NEVER tried to make nice. She was rude and aggressive and condescending the entire time. She’s trying to dominate Malaya, to force her to follow her lead and her rules. Malaya is having none of that shit and returns what she’s receiving. She gets nothing but hostility so she returns it, she gets threatened so she returns in kind. Sal upgrades to violence and Malaya fights back.
@Timemonkey: I don’t see Sal trying to dominate Malaya the past few pages. I see Sal getting pissed off because she’s doing her damnedest to try and make nice with what she sees as a threat due to her jealousy and fear of losing her only friend.
And again, Sal didn’t threaten Malaya first. Malaya made the first threat. How is that hard for anyone here to see?
Sal isn’t even trying at all, let alone trying her hardest. She’s made no effort. How can you think calling someone a cumstain, not apologising when you’re overheard and instead saying you’ll allow them to hang out together, even if it ends up killing them (and then clarify you mean it killing THEM), and then slamming them against the wall when you get called on your hostile, condescending bulllshit is someone trying their hardest to be nice.
Timemonkey, how, at any point of this interaction, is Malaya not partially responsible? Two pages back(I’m becoming a damned parrot at this point), the conversation was literally: “Where is that *stain?” “Yo, you want me to kick your ass? I will kick your ass!”
First threat was from Malaya, which Sal let slide.
I’m not saying Sal isn’t at fault, I’ve not said that once. What I am saying is why I think Sal(from what I know of her in this comic) is acting the way she is, how she was actually trying to be nice(even if she’s normally a bongo), and how they’re both at fault. I don’t understand why you glossed over everything Malaya did to aggravate this further, while also glossing over that Sal was trying to get to know Malaya well enough to figure out why Marcie wants to be friends with Malaya.
Why? Sure, Malaya fought back, but Sal pretty much picked this fight.
Both of them are assholes, there’s no denying that, but Sal’s the one that pushed this into fight territory when she grabbed Malaya. Sal’s older, bigger, and has a reputation for being the tough gal, Malaya needed to get her hits in when she could.
Older? I don’t think that’s true, or at least not canon. She’s the same age as Walky, and he’s only 18.
And Malaya plays roller derby, which is pretty brutal if you’re serious about it. The “tough” thing’s pretty even between the two of them.
Looks like Sal needs to go back and commiserate with Amber about picking unnecessary fights.
…Although that would probably cause another fight. What a mess.
They have more in common than either would care to admit.
I’m conflicted on the one hand My seething hatred of Malaya wanted her head rammed through the entire IU building. On the Other hand Sal was being crazy unreasonable and hateful toward her.
It’s not often there’s a fight where I’m rooting for neither character. On one hand, Malaya is right and Sal is being a total bongo about all of this. On the other hand, Malaya is a total bongo all the time.
Here is the difference. When Sal is one she expects to get away with it and still have people like her. Malaya, just doesn’t care. Malaya, unlike Sal, is comfortable with who she is and doesn’t form her identity around what other people think of her.
Uh… where has Sal expected to just get away with it??? That’s such a bizarre mischaracterization of her I don’t even know where to begin.
I do agree that Sal can’t FORCE someone to at least be civil with her for a mutual friend’s benefit, especially after how she opened it (though to be fair she didn’t realize the other was in hearing distance).
While Malaya has some very valid points, neither of them are really in the right. Sal is the more sympathetic party even if she’s “wrong”, because she really does want to at least TRY for their friend’s benefit.
Sal acts like a jerk to a heck of a lot of people. She didn’t set that meeting up to be friends, she did it as a power play. Malaya can hang out with Marcie if she starts playing nice to Sal.
Sal went there prepped to insult and belittle Malaya.
When Sal is rude, she blows up when called on it. When Malaya is rude she doesn’t care if someone says “F off”, because she doesn’t need that person to like her.
Sal’s this moment is Malaya’s every moment of every day. Fun fact. People who actually don’t care about things generally don’t go out of their way to tell everybody how much they don’t care, because THEY DON’T CARE.
Malaya acts the way she acts because she gets off on being a jerk and treating nearly everything around her with contempt. Sal’s real crime here is that she lowered herself to Malaya’s level. If she holds any greater guilt, it’s because unlike Malaya, she’s better than this.
I tend to be a jerk when I talk because I don’t want to waste energy lying to people, I’ll tell you I don’t get off on it like you think. I tell people I don’t care, because that’s my deal. I don’t lie to people, I tell them the truth.
Sal came with a confrontational attitude, Sal reacted with violence. The thing is, these have been shown to be normal for her. She doesn’t have the coping mechanisms to deal with being told no.
Are you malaya, or are you just projecting my assessment of Malaya onto yourself? because you really shouldn’t do that.
Also, there are lots of way to be honest with people and even express disinterest in a topic without being a jerk. Your excuse is just that, an excuse for (taking your words at face value) you to act like a jerk. It doesn’t make you special. It just makes you a jerk.
I am saying I get Malaya’s side of things. Nothing more. I just have to parallel it against what I know. I got sick of people lying to spare my feelings, and it always made me feel like crap when I lied to be nice to people so I stopped. I would rather someone told me that they don’t care, then pretending they do and then ignoring me. When I say I am a jerk, I didn’t mean I am rude, I used that word because you had.
As I said, I can only understand things through my own experiences. So to understand Malaya, I use myself. I am not special in any way, I just empathize with the character. I just don’t like to see her picked on for a character flaw that is relatively minor and will adjust as she grows up.
Oh the lies we tell ourselves to avoid the more unpleasant truth.
This is a serious miscalculation of the situation at hand here. First of all, no, Sal isn’t better than this. That’s why she needs someone like Marcie to stop her all the time in the first place. Marcie is Sal’s social crutch, someone who steps in when things get out of hand, usually with Sal against other people. She or someone else is there to stop Sal from attacking someon every single time.
Secondly, Malaya, while being a jerk, hasn’t done nearly as many shitty things in DoA than Sal has. The only things Malaya has ever done is whine and complain about things she doesn’t like. You know who else does that? Literally everyone. Well, there’s also the time she was instigated into a fight by Amazi-Girl, but that’s on Amazi-Girl for instigating one.
Thirdly, and I’m not aiming this at you specifically, but judging Malaya based on other Willis comics is incredibly unfair. This universe is a clean slate for all characters. Judge her by her actions in this universe, not in “It’s Walky” or whichever she debuted in.
“Malaya, while being a jerk, hasn’t done nearly as many shitty things in DoA than Sal has.”
Well, we haven’t seen as much of Malaya (18 strips to date) as we have Sal (183 strips). I would consider Sal to be one of the primary characters; Malaya, Marcie, and Carla — no so much so.
Even still, the amount of hate Malaya gets is extremely disproportionate to how much screen time she’s had.
Sal didn’t really want to try – she just kinda expected Malaya to play nice while she repeatedly insulted her and made it clear that she still loathes Malaya’s guts. Unsurprisingly, Malaya didn’t feel like putting up with that shit.
I don’t normally like Malaya, but in this case I am on her side. How did Sal expect Malaya to act after what she said?
GOD DAMMIT SAL WHY ARE YOU MAKING ME CHEER FOR MALAYA
Also, if calling someone a “little cumstain” is what Sal considers “mak[ing] nice-nice,” her being indifferent to someone must start with her putting them in the hospital.
god DAMMIT Marcie
Woo, Malaya! Good job!
Goddammit, Sal.
This makes me feel more like Dina than ever. What are these mammals fighting for?
I’m glad Marcie could stop this, but this is bullshit …*sigh* just wait for the Joyce and Sal fight to re-upload.
God dammit Sal
Malaya is a self centered, antagonistic, dirty fighting little bongo.
Sal is one of my favorites and always has been.
I don’t think it would have gotten bad if Marcie hadn’t shown up, Sal would have connected with that roundhouse, and then Marcie could’ve peeled Malaya off the pavement.
But like Rex says, sorta. Sal is just flat jealous of Malaya. Add to that the type of person Malaya is, and that makes it all the harder for Sal to understand why Marcie would rather hang with her.
Hate to say it but Sal is way not right with the insults.
Calling someone a cumstain is not the way to strike up a friendship, even if said person is one.
Personally, I much prefer dirty fighting over honorably getting my ass kicked.
The notion of a “fair fight” is something created by bigger, stronger people to emphasize their advantages over smaller, smarter people.
I agree. But even if we did go by notions of a fair fight, Malaya threw her punch after Sal threw her against the wall, and with Sal looking directly at her. She also didn’t lie about it to Marcie after the fact. I fail to see how that’s ‘fighting dirty’.
No, no, I agree Malaya isn’t out of line defending herself physically. That was actually my point. The only reason anybody could see this fight as “dirty” is by presuming that Malaya should just let Sal beat her.
Sal: “Oh god, why is this happening…”
God: “Lady, I tried. Maybe next time you’ll have the sense to choose Apples to Apples plus lesbian makeouts over getting gutpunched. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got Enterprise reruns to watch.”
You know he’s a TNG fan damn it.
Well, maybe. But he’s on record as being a Enterprise fan. http://www.shortpacked.com/index.php?id=186
I sent you a Becky, and you turned her away. What more did you expect of Me?
Well done Malaya for putting Sal in her place, Sal acts like she doesn’t care what anyone thinks but its a loud kind of don’t care, a very noticeable don’t care, the kind of don’t care where you want people to notice how much you don’t care.
Malaya (though not a character I care for much) has shown she won’t be bullied and she won’t be threatened and I can respect that.
Except Sal was NOT bullying &/or threatening Malaya.
Sal was trying to reach out to Malaya, and Malaya sucker-punched (& knee’d) Sal for it.
Please never, ever try to reach out to me. If you think grabbing someone’s shirt and holding them up against a wall is NOT bullying &/or threatening then I think you should re-evaluate that.
Try going back a few more strips. Sal called Malaya out for the meeting. Sal made the overtures to try to reach out to Malaya.
Malaya threw it all in her face, short of spitting in it.
So Sal sets up a meeting between her and Malaya. What is the first sentence spoken in this meeting?
“Where is that little cumstain?”
As Sal refers to Malaya. Such overtures. Very branch. Much olive. Wow.
Yes, try going back a few strips, to where Sal insulted and condescended to Malaya, then fucking physically assaulted her when she refused to take it.
Yeah calling someone a cumstain even if you didn’t mean for them to here it is reaching out.
However these lines:
“So tonight I’m gonna try to be friends, even if it kills you”
“Maybe ah’ll get used to you. *quiet voice* like menstruation”
are patronizing towards Malaya and then when Malaya fires back with some barbs of her own Sal slams her up against a wall.
So yeah Sal was attempting to bully Malaya and Malaya fought back
That was as threatening as it gets without getting out a pair of wire cutters and asking which fingers you like least.
The ring finger on my left hand. It gets a weird ache and is always getting hangnails.
If you’re hitched and follow the same customs as the US, it sounds like you might want to consider getting your wedding ring resized.
Oh gods, I didn’t even remember that was that hand. Let’s keep that finger for now. Hmmm, the right ring finger can go I guess? Is that used for anything?
If you think calling someone to meet up just to call them a cumstain to their face, then comparing them to menstruation, and then basically telling them that ‘maybe you’ll get used to [them]’ is reaching out, I think you’re living on another planet. Sal treated Malaya like shit from the get-go here, but more importantly, she EXPECTED that Malaya would try to be friends with her after this. Fuck that. As much as I like Sal, in this isolated pocket of drama she got what she deserved.
My first thought was “Man I’m glad Marcie heard all that ruckus so she could stop the fight.”
Then I felt bad and had to go drink some liptons.
The day I condemn Malaya for fighting off a violent psycho who doesn’t nothing but demean her, is the day I call Ambers dad a hero.
I’m so happy to see a good amount of commenters on Malaya’s sode for once. <3
Uh, so Marcie DID come.
Color me pretty surprised.
Explains why Malaya showed up in the first place. Couldn’t see her coming to hang out with just Sal.
Sadly, I’m now deprived of my beautiful daydream of Joe interrupting the festivities with some crude remark and getting savaged by a Sal and Malaya tag team. Pity.
There’s always next time !
Hell, he could still show up, and earn the combined ire of three really powerful women.
Also, half the comments are about the cast’s breast size ? -_-
Yeah that got weird.
Especially when it morphed into a haircut discussion.
I did find some of the posts about the difficulties of purchasing properly sized bras informative, though. Never fully appreciated what some of my female friends were going through there.
And also spun off another fight over Dina.
To be fair….a good chunk of the comments are in a thread STARTED by a comment about breast size, but I don’t know that most of the comments are still on that topic…I think the biggest subthread is the one arguing about whether it’s OK to say Dina’s ‘basically a kid’.
So far, we have spats over:
-Who’s at fault
-Who would’ve won the fight
-Wishing bodily harm on Malaya
-Wishing bodily harm on Sal
-The breast sizes of the female cast
-Dina’s emotional maturity
-Whether it’s okay to talk about Dina’s emotional maturity
-Becky’s hair (again)
“I don’t need you to like me.”
Then that works out well for ya, Malaya, cause…I really fucking don’t.
Wasn’t expecting Marcie to turn up, but I’m glad she did. Also, I wasn’t expecting Malaya to kick some ass! The tables have turned when it comes to the beat downs it would appear.
I just wish Marcie could have waited one more panel to show up, and let Sal at least get the retaliatory punch in.
Story of Sal’s life so far. Not being allowed to get a single punch in.
…this is really bad.
Ugh, are we ever going to see someone punch Malaya?
I hope so, and soon. Preferably with Malaya antagonizing Sal just a little bit more before the scene ends, and Marcie not reacting fast enough.
Amazi-Girl clotheslined her and threw her around like a sack of potatoes. Not good enough for you?
Nah, she needs a good punch.
WOW, so much anger in these comments this comic. Lots of people saying Sal was doing the right thing, plenty more cheering Malaya on, a few saying both are in the wrong with varying levels of guilt…
Not bad, considering everyone’s reading the same comic, just with different points of view. Mind you, seems not everyone is taking the 2 previous strips into account.
I see it as Sal was TRYING to be nice to someone who has a tendency to aggravate her a fair bit (Stain), but started it off on the wrong foot with the cumstain comment, while Malaya was just being a paint the whole time, though said cumstain comment didn’t help 1 bit. Sal declared she was trying to be nice to Malaya, Malaya threw it back in her face, so Sal threw her against the wall. Malaya threw an uppercut & a knee at Sal, went for another punch which Sal caught & was about to reply to with 1 of her own when Marcie stepped in.
Both are at fault, but at least Sal was TRYING to be nice. She obviously doesn’t know how to very well, but there was effort made. Malaya just heard the cumstain comment & never went nice…
*Sits back & waits for comments tearing at what I’ve said…*
I pretty much agree with all points, having made most of them on a chain near the top. You should be able to see that next to your comment up there.
Not everyone will attack your comment, at least.
I think the whole “not knowing how to be nice” thing stems from her popularity. People to just tend to fall all over her. Then we got this dame, who ain’t exactly all that friendly to begin with who isn’t singing Sal’s praises within the first two minutes of meeting her. And I think that bugs Sal just a bit. I dunno, I could easily be wrong.
If someone insults me like that right away after inviting me to be friends, I would assume that was not their intent at all and leave. Malaya is a lot more confrontational of course but I’m not surprised she didn’t act nice to Sal after that at all.
indeed. Sal thought she was saying “Lets play nice for Marcie’s sake”
what it looked (and sounded) like to Malaya (and, i think most people) was “Look, i’m going to grant you the benefit of my presence, because you have forced yourself into MY friends life. So stay out of my way”
Yes, I am going to dissect your view of the situation.
“I see it as Sal was TRYING to be nice to someone who has a tendency to aggravate her a fair bit, but started it off on the wrong foot with the cumstain comment, while Malaya was just being a paint the whole time, though said cumstain comment didn’t help 1 bit.”
You’re missing the context of this meeting. Sal is jealous of Malaya for hanging out with Marcie. I think she’s afraid that Marcie will be taken away from her. This “playing nice” thing, to me, is Sal’s way of wedging herself between the two of them, keeping her place next to Marcie while acting as a gatekeeper. A “if you want to be friends with her, then try to be friends with me” type of deal. However, friendship doesn’t always work like that. Malaya has no obligation to accept this deal, especially since Sal, from Day 1, has made it clear that she hates her.
“Sal declared she was trying to be nice to Malaya, Malaya threw it back in her face, so Sal threw her against the wall.”
No, Sal claimed she was being nice, while condescending to and insulting Malaya the whole time. People who try to be nice don’t do those sort of things. Malaya, understandably, did not take that shit lightly, and Sal wouldn’t have it.
Malaya, to date, is the only other person we’ve seen who’s attempted to communicate with Marcie via sign and that’s incredibly important and great of her for doing that. Until now, the only person who could talk to Marcie was Sal. Literally. This is Marcie’s chance to have friends that she doesn’t need an interpreter for, someone who is more than willing to learn to communicate, and Sal is getting in the way of that because of selfish reasons. Honestly, I wouldn’t blame Marcie if she ditched Sal after this.
Willis, is this some kind of poetic bs where Sal represents us or something? I feel totally ratchet inside.
I think I much prefer reading Danny/amber/Ethan love triangle instead
Actually, that’s a great interpretation of this. Everyone shits on Malaya for little to no reason (your mileage may vary; I don’t see her personality as particularly off-putting to be quite honest), and Malaya is done with it. She won’t be discriminated against because of an alternate universe version of her.
Also, I don’t care if you say that DoA is the alternate universe, because this is actually the only Willis comic I’ve read seriously, so basically any information outside of it is kind of irrelevant to me (no offense Willis, I’ll probably read them later).
The amount of people who want to see Malaya beaten up disturbs me. Like holy shit, the thirst of some comments.
I’m glad Marcie was there because this ‘conversation’ was going nowhere. Sal is obviously jealous and thinks that making peace will make things better (not that she tried tho) and Malaya thinks Sal is on some weird ego trip, Marcie needs Sal to fess up to her pronto.
I don’t even get why they want her beat up. It’s not like she’s done anything awful in this universe.
The TLDR of it is that she was a gigantic asshole in the other universe so she automatically has some bad karma to work off.
That DoA Malaya is kind of an unpleasant jerk who also easily befriended Marcie and is making a serious effort in learning sign language is tangential.
I’ve read Shortpacked!, all of it. I still don’t hate Malaya.
That’s bullshit.
That people came in with negative impressions of her from Shortpacked? How is that bullshit?
My first reaction to seeing her in DoA was “Shit, Malaya”, and since then her meager panel time has shown that she’s capable of being better than what we’ve assumed her to be. That aside, people generally like Sal more than her, so a lot of first impressions on the comic will be Character I Like vs. Character I Don’t Like.
Yes. I think of new universes as clean slates. Also, I haven’t read Shortpacked! so I think of the hate as pretty irrelevant and kind of annoying.
Well, it is what it is. Not many of the characters are significantly different from their Walkyverse counterparts and it’s not completely irrational to dislike a new iteration of a previously hated character.
To put this in Willis terms, it’s like if Drift was the star of the next Transformers movie. Doesn’t matter if it’s a whole new canon with different art, writers and everything, it’s still Drift goddammit.
It’s not completely irrational, but please understand that from a newcomer point of view it looks waaaaay out of left field and unjustified.
I do understand. I was just explaining why people might dislike Malaya even though she’s been pretty okay in this universe.
But it’s happened anyways.
A little bit of me wants Sal to taste defeat in some way, and not just losing Marcie.
The same with Joe.
Maybe it’s the bit in me where I was never amongst the cool ones at school.
I understand you, completely.
A pretty obvious Joe plot would be him developing a crush on some girl, instead of just wanting to get into her pants, and said girl having no interest in Joe.
I’m not sure Sal really is amongst “the cool ones”. She only has one friend she hangs out constantly. Since Marcie has Malaya, we’ve seen Sal in a bar all alone. She just gets called cool for her looks and bike and the distant behaviour. But I believe her acting is just a defense mechanism to hide her insecurity.
Sal has been in jail, sent away to boarding school as the family disappointment, thinks her parents don’t love her, and has only one really friend. How has she not “tasted defeat” in many different ways?
Well, someone willing to get along with Sal might have choosen to ignore Sal’s cumstain remark as she was obviously talking to herself at that point and didn’t expect Malaya to hear it. Calling her out on it wasn’t a smart move if communication was the aim. But then, why should I expect Malaya to be better at this kind of stuff than Sal?
So they both acted stupidly and obviously both like to fight to get their anger out of their systems instead of finding other solutions. And if Macie hadn’t stepped in, it would have been an all-out where probably both of them would have been considerably hurt, both being no quitters.
So thanks for stepping in Marcie. I hope you can somehow get through to them.
No, no, if you can’t keep your inside thoughts in your head, you don’t get pretend they never happened. Sal stated her intent pretty clearly, and Malaya doesn’t actually owe her anything.
That being said, a reasonable person would be expected to, I think, extend the middle finger and depart, not feed the confrontation.
(For reference this comes from years of therapy and antidepressants to get me to a point where I wouldn’t act EXACTLY LIKE Malaya in this situation)
like Smiling Cat said. Sal wants to befriend Malaya so she can hang out with Marcie more.
Malaya is just keen not being friends with Sal, she has no reason to want a truce or to be friends with Sal. Why would she want to have that in her life. Her rebellion in this page is because Sal doesnt undersand there is literally no reason for Malaya to give her what she wants. She is friends with Marcie, and if Marcie wants to hang out with her instead of Sal since Sal purposefully refuses to enjoy life then its not Malaya’s fault that Sal is a crummy friend.
As i speak i get the feeling maybe Sal’s and Marcie’s friendship is a little one sided when it comes to personal commitment. Can you imagine the hours Marcie has potentially spent doing literally nothing but sitting next to Sal while she smokes.
No, that’s not actually what I said. Sal resents and despises Malaya and doesn’t actually want to have to change.
To be fair to Sal, I don’t think anywhere in what I’ve read so far (and I’m one of those rare cases who’s pretty much only read DoA and not other Walkyverse strips) shows that Sal necessarily likes the hero worship. Malaya kind of jumped to the conclusion that that was the reason Sal doesn’t like her and pressed on it.
That doesn’t mean that Sal has been exactly nice about this, but maybe I’m wrong. I’ve seen these whole three strips as less “I deem you worthy of hanging out with me” and more “I hate your guts, but my friend likes you, so I guess I’m going to have to deal with it, but hell if you don’t piss me off.” Malaya doesn’t have to seek Sal’s approval, but you’d think she’d at least acknowledge that if they both like Marcie, they’re going to both have to be civil.
I don’t get where people see Sal doing this as a power play. You’d think if it were a power play, she’d be more elegant about it. Or go to Marcie and demand her not to hang out with “that little cumstain.”
This. I don’t think Sal is completely blameless, but calling it a power-play/bullying/etc. strikes me as an extreme take on the situation. Especially since they act like Sal was calling Malaya a cumstain to her face when it clearly wasn’t meant to be heard by Malaya (which, to me, greatly changes the dynamic of the dialogue).
I loved Walkyverse Malaya, and was indifferent to Walkyverse Sal, but I still think Malaya is the bigger asshole here.
Well i disagree with this philosophy but i understand most people find bongos that insult you behind your back to be worse than people who do it to your face.
It does change the Dynamic of the dialogue. She knows Sal hates her so all this “make nice” thing is obviously B.S.
Its like i say. In life you dont need to answer to anyone, you can just do You and be happy with your life, but as soon as you expect people to react to you in a positive way it doesnt matter what you think, how you feel, what you MEAN. People only have what you say and do to understand you. They cant read your mind. And Sal has shown Malaya nothing good.
It’s definitely a power play. Her condescending remarks and insults and the way she violently reacted to being rejected says as much. The fact that she’s jealous of Malaya for getting in the way of her friendship with Marcie also says as much. She’s trying to set herself up as a barrier between them so she can keep Marcie close to her. Unfortunately, Malaya doesn’t roll like that. She doesn’t want to be friends with Sal, especially since Sal has made it clear since day one that she doesn’t want to be friends with Malaya. If Sal really wanted to play nice, she would’ve attempted to be a bit more friendly, but I’m certain that Malaya would see past the bullshit anyway. She seems pretty perceptive.
If they were going to be civil though, Sal could’ve come across a *lot better* than she did. Insulting someone continuously is really not acting civil, so of course Malaya was going to call it out as the whole ‘lets be friends for Marcie’s sake’ as BS, which it is.
Why is everyone still siding with Sal here? It’s seriously baffling me. I see all these comments of ‘offering an olive branch’ but she literally turned up, continuously insulted Malaya and has now *pushed her against the wall and threatened her* because she wasn’t happy with Malaya’s obvious ‘uh wtf no’ and there are still people annoyed that Malaya didnt have a chance to be beaten up for it???
I’m glad Marcie turned up though, at least! Otherwise it wouldve been mindless beatdowns for the next few strips.
…everyone ? if that was the case, the comment area wouldn’t be a war zone like currently.
There are a lot people not siding with her or anyone (like in my case).
But many people can’t switch between their feelings for someone (even a fictional character) and an objective view.
Sal has a short fuse, yes, but I don’t think getting upset with someone for jumping to a false conclusion is out of line. Is slamming someone up against the wall appropriate? No. But I think too many people are busy looking at “putting Sal in her place” to notice that responding to one person’s side comment with “Do you want me to kick your ass?” isn’t starting on the aggressive side. Hell, even Malaya starting the conversation with “I don’t need this shit, fuck you, I’m out of here. Marcie can do whatever the hell she wants and you can’t make her.” would still be shutting Sal down but less aggressive.
Malaya came with a chip on her shoulder. Sal came with a chip on her shoulder. Those chips have since exploded. Some people see Malaya as being in the right here but really, they’re both being kind of petty and short tempered. It’d be within Marcie’s right to say “You know what? You’re both assholes, fuck this.”
…which I would love to learn the sign for.
Oh, bullshit.
Malaya has done nothing but respond in kind to Sal’s aggression. The only thing she could have done better is walk away instead of letting Sal goad her into this fight.
Sal, on the other hand, has done nothing but aggress at Malaya.
*trying to figure out why anyone would “deserve” to get punched*
Isn’t it obvious? It’s because the offender is way cooler and I don’t like the person getting punched!
I can think of a few reasons that could possibly trigger someone so I won’t mention them.
I can think of scenarios where a punch would be completely justified, and needed in the sense that something needed to be done. That’s the closest I can come to a punch being ‘deserved’.
This, however, is not one of those scenarios.
[Sigh] Where’s Ninja Rick when you need him?
Battling spiders.
Marcy interrupted at the worst possible time because after getting punched twice, and about to fire back, she got stopped. There’s gonna be a lot of pent up anger over that. If they had just given each other a good beating, they might have found some mutual respect. It’s happened to me before. But now the hate will flow like a damn sith.
Over the course of the comic, Sal *always* got stopped before she could punch back.
and I agree with you, I couldn’t really say it well in english, but… well, yeah, anger penting up. The bomb didn’t explode this time, but it’s gaining on C4 all the while.
This will be so very bad once it sets off.
Basically, Sal either manages to defuse herself, or eventually gets her ass expelled and in custody.
She can’t. She definitely can’t 😐 I can’t really imagine a scenario where she’d be able to stop by herself.
Malaya is in the right here. When someone starts off with the insults and physically grabs you and pushes you into a wall? It’s not the person being pushed into the wall that has a problem. Mind you, we don’t know what the full results of the fight would be as it has been cut short but Sal is way off base here.
Damn Malaya that last comment was awesome!
Reminded me of time at school when a fight broke out a teacher quickly broke it up and demanded to know what they were doing and one of the combatants responded with; “We were fucking fighting!”
One of the problems with webcomics is that they can lead to reductionist readings. This is a great arc because of the way it is structured, going back weeks, even months.
Look at the constrasts. Sal and Becky both are in the position of having their lifelong friend expand their social circle and possibly lose the lifeline they depend upon. Becky has more at stake here, as she is one step from survival sex and homelessness. Sal has a home, as many friends as she will allow in, a sex life and money enough for a motorcycle. All very dysfuntional, but she still has them. We just saw Becky reaching out and making a friend. Their paths forward are very different, which is great storytelling.
Dina and Sal are both isolated from their peers, Sal partially by choice but mainly by circumstances. We just saw Dina making a connection by working through her limitations.
Amber and Sal have extreme anger issues. Amber worked through hers by being a vigilante, while Sal is assaulting someone she made an appointment with. DYW reminded us of the contrast before starting this episode.
Taking the last week out of context is missing the resonance that DYW has built into this strip. Most major actions are foreshadowed months in advance. Sal has been a walking time bomb since introduced. This violence is totally in character for her. Anyone surprised that she would get violent with Malaya under the guise of “befriending” her?
So, DYW’s depth of storytelling is what keeps me coming back. Like most people here, I read 15-20 webcomics, but this one stands out for real storytelling.
It’s making me so insanely envious 🙂
Awww, crappy timing, Marcie. I was really looking forward to that beat-down.
OH COME ON.
Someone kick Malaya’s ass. Please?!
Mayala is still awful. Not sure why anyone would side with her.
Because Sal is bullying and harassing her? Because she was assaulted?
Because Sal is revealing herself to be more and more awful the more we learn about her.
Well, most of what I read wasn’t siding but pointing out how badly Sal is behaving right now.
If you talk to a bad person like a big buttopening (haha) you are not better than them. Also, Sal is only like that because she’s mad jealous, not because Malaya has done anything wrong (she only befriended Marcie).
They’re both really awful people.
Of the two of them, Sal is WAY more out of line here. Yeah, Malaya should have just said “Fuck no, I don’t want to be your friend, you’ve been an ass to me since the moment we met” and walked away. Her volley of insults was unnecessary. But Sal slamming Malaya up against the wall and threatening to beat the crap out of her in retaliation was… disproportionate, to say the least.
Malaya is a jerk, but Sal has a violent streak and serious anger issues that are coming dangerously close to boiling over.
“came here to make nice”
wow sal, i always figured if someone lied that hard they’d just explode. Literally everything you have done in this interaction, from opening it with calling Malaya “cumstain”, to acting like she should be honored to spend time with you, to YOU being the one to escalate this to violence last strip, shows that you absolutely did not come here to make nice.
Also, go Malaya! Don’t take any shit from this bully.
That bit where I don’t like Malaya and never have but _god damn it_ she’s in the right anyway – you made me have to support Malaya, Sal, LOOK WHAT YOU DID
Sal initiated the violence. So, yes, while Malaya is obnoxious, a sane person wouldn´t take it to fists in such a short time. Welcome to the ugly side of Sal´s demeanor, where she loses his cool and acts like a tug without reservation (when Marcie isn´t with her, and she feels she has an “appropiate” target). If she continues to act like this, she´s likely to lose Marcie, and then go on a downward spiral… In the end it´s another case of misadaptation in how to relate to relationships. Yep, most of the time, those who you see as perfectly cool and assertive people, have things you wouldn´t want to look. Only that they hide those better. So, the Sal we know (or the campus people) is only “Armor Sal”. This is the real, somewhat insecure, forceful, Sal. To this point, we still don´t know how much Marcie knows of the inner thougts of Sal about her.
Sal totally isn’t a peoples person. Her “cool” act is just her not being good with people – and not being very interested, since she has her best friend Marcie. Now Marcie has someone else whom Sal also doesn’t like. So Sal acts like … well, a jealous jerk.
Their both at fault for this fight. Sal might have wanted to be nice, but her a*hole side got the better of her instantly. I believe nearly everyone would have been offended and left or picked a fight with her. I mean, “cumstain”? Bad start.
Also Malaya melee. That is all.
I just like Sal. She’s an interesting character. I want to know more about how she became who she is and who she will become over the course if the comic. She’s like Amber, in the sense that we know there are reasons for the things she does. She’s fallible and human and beautiful and talented and flawed and easy-going and complex. She’s not acting terrible well in this scene, but she’s not acting worse than Malaya, who—if she *really* didn’t give a damn—could have just refused to show up in the first place.
Well, no, she is acting way worse than Malaya, and that started when it went beyond just cursing at each other to Sal straight up assaulting her.
Regardless of Malaya’s attitude, which only came about because Sal called her a cumstain and acted like speaking to her was physically difficult, she does not deserve to have Sal attack her.
It’d pretty possible that Malaya, like Sal, only showed up because she was thinking of Marcie.
Probable, even.
Yes, she is acting worse than Malaya. She always has been. Everything she has done has been exactly the opposite of her claim that she’s trying to make nice. She has done nothing but insult and assault Malaya.
Malaya, on the other hand, has done nothing but refuse to take the insults and defend herself from the assault.
Man, a bunch of sal-fans are going nuts. Sal is wrong, way over the line and I fully believe she deserved what she got so far. Now, it would be interesting to see how Marcie settles this.
I still think they’re both in the wrong, and should just get the fight over and done with. People like Sal and Malaya either hate each other for ever, or fight and become friends. Or kill each other in a badly dubbed b-list asian action flick.
Pro Tip: If you want to make nice with someone, don’t shove them into walls and call them names.
And I don’t wanna hear any “But Malaya said blah blah blah!” Sal has been completely horrible to Malaya in every single strip we’ve seen them in. She even went as far as insisting that when Carla speaks about Marcie and Malaya, she say “Your friend, and Malaya.” Malaya is rightfully pissed off. Sal comes to extend the olive branch, but instead of doing that, calls her a cumstain when she thought Malaya couldn’t hear. So yes, Malaya started talking some serious shit. And yeah, maybe it was uncalled for, or could’ve been said differently. But Sal was the one who decided to escalate the situation to violence.
Should Malaya have attacked Sal? Maybe not. However, I would call the first punch self defense, considering that Sal hoisted her up and slammed her into a wall. The knee to the gut I’m a bit iffy on.
Both of them are being idiots right now. But I just can’t bring myself to agree with people saying that what Sal has done was a good move. It wasn’t. She is acting like a child.
I adore Sal in genral, but “If you want to make nice with someone, don’t shove them into walls and call them names.” Yes. So much this. Sal accuses Malaya of being unlikeable but Sal’s the one being exceedingly rude and condescending.
Yeah, shoving people into walls and insulting them… is Ruth and Billie’s thing.
It’s foreplay with those two.
I dunn oabout self defense, but once you start a fight, it’s downright silly to stop after the first punch, especially with the opponent in arm’s range. It leaves you open to a harsh counter attack
sorry, “once a fight start”, not “once you start a fight”
She’s not even acting like a child. She’s acting like a bully.
Good lord, those two stacked panels. Malaya’s angry, but Sal looks murderous (how dare Malaya resist getting pushed up against the wall!*) Marcie got there just in time.
*Sarcasm, for those of you who need that to be pointed out.
Oooooooo someone’s in trouuuuuuuble!
So in something unrelated to whether or not Sal was right to physically assault someone for responding negatively to her derogatory remarks, the two stacked panels are really cool at conveying the motion of Sal winding up for a punch, especially the way her hair is swaying from panel to panel.
“Goddammit Malaya” would make for a good t-shirt phrase, I think.
Only with a picture of her on it. Otherwise it just looks like you’re really mad at the country.
You are thinking of Malaysia. Difference!
I feel like the scoring is using strange units here. Its like Malaya: First Blood, Sal: Interrupted Mid-murder. Because Malaya did get in the first actual swings but only while Sal was using intimidate. (It failed)
nah, Malaya totally woulda ducked that punch. I mean, a whole panel for windup? highly extravagant.
Over 500 comments but I don’t see anyone else pointing this out: Sal’s initial “stain” insult was entirely unintentional. She didn’t say it to Malaya’s face. It was an overheard remark while she was talking to herself. Stupid and careless to talk about someone that way when they might be in earshot, but not a deliberate attack. We’ll probably never know how much Sal really intended to try to “play nice-nice” but once she’d gotten Malaya going by accident I think she gave up even making an effort.
Add that to the fact that Sal’s really pretty insecure and getting caught in a dumb mistake like that is really embarrassing. Many insecure folks cope with embarrassment by getting angry with the people around them as a defense mechanism. Her initial mistake set the tone for the rest of the scene, and neither one of them can resist escalating an argument at every turn.
Hardly surprising that it’s turned into a train wreck.
Well I mentioned somewhere that if anything that would make it obvious that Seal is talking out her butt and doesn’t give snot about her.
Most people seem to agree that someone who talks bad about you behind your back is worse than someone mean to your face.
Knowing Sal’s candid feelings showed Malaya that Seal is hopeless, if anything
Maybe Malaya hopes it’s like a kiss from the rose on the gray.
Aaah now I have the song stuck in my head (well, this version)
I will save you !
‘PInk Steel’ slices through, Seal’s earworm , to shooting uP batman. ‘
Rose on the grave?
“slap your sack /cuz your going to war : Were fighting for cock”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=72&v=TxDqmx7GREA
( im not just insane: this song actually came up on a song-meaning page for “Kiss from a Rose” It seemed weirdly appropriate . and inappropriate)
You mean Heroin?
If we go along with Ecode thats now heroine .
Walky says shes basically batman.
Which either means Bruce wayne has another additional secret,
He’s Sal In drag, or on Drugs.
Batmans clearly A Junkie, kiss from a rose on the grave
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=SRseal%20kiss%20from%20a%20rose&v=ateQQc-AgEM
This. I’d mentioned earlier that cumstain was a side comment but I think that might have been lost in translation.
I guess I don’t understand why people seem to have a hard time seeing them as mutually at fault (that doesn’t mean equally, but mutually). Sal’s not going in to be best of friends here. She’s trying to tolerate someone she doesn’t like. I don’t get why Sal has to act like she does. And Malaya’s imposing reasons on why Sal doesn’t like her that simply aren’t true. Sal’s upset that she thinks she’s losing her friend, not trying to meld Malaya into the Sal hero-worship cult. They have a mutual dislike of each other for dumb reasons without really getting to know the other.
Sal is getting Worf’d so hard. All of her bad-assness is just informed bad-assness.
it’s awfully late for this page, but.
Amber’s rage panels are red. Sal’s are orange. Hmm.
If anyone punches Malaya out…I kind of want it to be Joyce somehow. I know that has zero chance of it ever happening but
It’s a good thing marcie stopped the fight, but at the same time it’s not. Malaya is gonna be even more full of herself now, and sal’s gonna be mad because the score is left at two to zero, where she could’ve at least got one good punch in if marcie waited a second.
Textbook auspistice. ♣
Subliminal message , panel 1
Malayas left hand spells “Crap”