Okay, actually after looking at some other Becky appaearances I guess she’s maybe a little curvier than my mental picture of her. And I always think of Dorothy and Amber as having like the exact same body type but I guess Dorothy is a little slimmer. Oh, when oh when will fictional girls stop giving each other shit over how they look. *wink wink fictional righhhht*
“Bony” was a mean thing for Becky to say, but Dorothy is definitely thin. Amber seems much curvier (“Hugs Bosoms” and all)…I guess Amber is more Becky’s type? Love the variety of body shapes in this comic. Makes it realistic.
Dotty’s what I’d call ‘athletic’. a jogger’s physique. Small, light, well-muscled, with a thin but healthy layer of fat beneath the skin. They’re definitely in the popular style of ‘attractive’, but they require a lot of exercise to maintain, and athletic women don’t tend to have the breast size I enjoy. My $.02, salt to taste.
I think Becky’s type is Joyce. She hides it under the sweater-vests, but she’s definitely curvier than Dorothy, if not up to Amber or Billie’s standard.
You think Joyce covers up something nice Velma from Scooby Doo style? Interesting. And they’ve grown up together too, so she’d have more chances of seeing Joyce under her layers than most too…
Well remember, Becky once thought Joyce had a thing for her, too. I took that one controversial comic as Becky being a little self-deprecating and calling Dorothy _and_ herself bony.
(It’s still a mean thing to say, but exactly the kind of “candor” you get from college freshman who are trying to discover themselves.)
I felt a great disturbance in the fandom, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and then went to the comments section to express their feelings.
See, this is why millions of intelligent (or somewhat) beings think well of you. Incidentally, are you in need of another race to commit violence on your behalf at the drop of a hat? I feel the Klingons are greatly underrepresented.
Who is “she”? Becky? Joyce? Dorothy? Probably Dorothy. I know she kinda censored it down to “Jeez” but that is still using the lord’s name in vain and obviously the most terrible thing anyone in that group has done.
Not always. Sarcasm can be meanspirited, but can also be an impassive method of pointing out ironic situations. Unless used in a chat room or comment section where it’s impossible to detect and inevitably gets taken seriously by everyone except the person using it. Until that person sees a sarcastic remark by someone else and inevitably takes it seriously.
In the grand tradition of crazy Joyce face gravatars, that first one would look pretty corking with like a cyborg eye filling in for where Becky’s head is.
Okay, this took a while to dawn on me, but I think I know some of what’s going on here.
Becky is not entirely over Joyce, romantically.
She can be a jerk, but she usually has a REASON. One would think she’d want to make as many friends as she could, as fast as she could, because she IS scared and she DOES need support.
But instead, we get “So this is your REAL boyfriend! TOTALLY REAL! Well, cool! If you guys wanna kiss in front of me right now, go for it! Not that you have to prove anything, but… tell you what, I’ll wait.” Getting Joyce to admit that this is not a real relationship removes one obstacle.
Assuming that obstacle #2, Joyce not liking girls, will just kind of work itself out as Joyce’s sexual awakening continues– which *I* don’t think it will but *Becky* might still believe it will– then obstacle #3 is Dorothy, and that’s why Becky treats her like The Competition.
Alternate theory: Becky HAS accepted Joyce’s straightness, more or less, but she’s still jealous of Ethan and Dorothy’s relationships with her as boyfriend and “girl-crush,” just as Joyce is jealous of Walky for the time he gets to spend with Dorothy.
I read the comic assuming it was the “alternate theory” (the “main theory” not even occurring to me; I had to read the comments section to realize that possibility-derp). I’m still hoping the alternate theory is the truth, not least because Willis got me to like Becky an awful lot by this point.
Oh shoot. Now you’re going to have to sign everything. How am I supposed to turn text into sign language so that I can turn it into words I understand?!?!
That’s the warning sign. Soon as you start liking a DoA character, you discover some way they are secretly horrible. I’m assuming at this point that Dorothy’s closet is packed full of ritually sacrificed kittens and puppies.
I am at the very least on board with your alt theory.
I don’t know how anybody could possibly think Becky was over Joyce. She just got rejected last night. I would usually prescribe a week of staying more or less away from each other, during which Becky would ideally break down the pedestal she put Joyce on and reformulate her expectations of their relationship. Obviously that wasn’t an option here though.
Mmm, yes. I suspect Becky’s head currently contains a mixture of both of those motivations. Couldn’t see it before. That is the difference between an experienced writer and an inexperienced one. (Well, one difference.)
That’s a good explanation, and I expect elements of both are true. Becky is jealous of Joyce’s friends (she said as much to Sarah) and she still holds out hope that Joyce miiiiight be in it for the giblets after all.
But there is a much simpler force at work as well – Becky is kinda clueless. As been said a few times these last days, she has no idea how to work a large social group, she has no idea how to behave as an out-and-proud lesbian, she has no idea how to interact with Joyce now when they both have changed into something new, and add on top of that how crazy the last days have been for her and the simple fact that she doesn’t know if she’ll be here tomorrow or if she has been forced on the run.
She’s flailing around and overcompensating and mistaking “rude” for sassy” because she honestly doesn’t know better. Look at Joyce’s first meeting with these people and see how well that went.
I think the two of you (T + Bagge) just nailed it. I’m glad the mystery has been solved. Becky “just” being a jerk didn’t seem very satisfying.
What I can add is that Becky seems to have a personality in common with Walky. Obviously she’s more abrasive, but the two of them started off pretty well on their first meeting. And we *know* Walky is not good at processing & communicating his feelings. It seems obvious Becky is primarily focusing on the joyous aspects of being out & feeling accepted, while suppressing the angst, anger & hurt.
What Becky doesn’t seem to realize is how much she’s contributing to the upsetting of Joyce’s faith-based worldview. She assumed Joyce was as much into girls *and aware of it* as herself. That Joyce still takes the teachings of her church *very serious* is not a thing foremost on Becky’s mind.
I always look for T’ s contributions AND I very much like what Winter, Bagge, and Thomas have written here also: it all makes sense and makes for a good personality arc–nice “workshoping” folks. Now we’ll see: “(the readerz) proposes, (Willis) disposes.”
It’s almost like this character has depth and people are jumping on her for being rude without thinking about this from her position. But that would never happen. :p
See, think is, even if T is 100% on all of this, that doesn’t change that she was rude. A understandable reason is not an excuse, it is an understandable reason. You can understand the actions of somebody and not like them anyway.
Rudeness is FINE. I appreciate rudeness more than I do politeness and fake civility. Rudeness is being honest and open. I have enough people in my life pasting fake friendly faces over their own to try and get something from me.
I especially respect, and in many cases require, rudeness from children, who are still learning what their feelings are, and how to express them. Forcing children to conceal their feelings under a mask of politeness can stunt their emotional growth.
In her situation, Becky NEEDS to be rude, and others need to be rude back to her. That’s the only way she’s going to figure any of this out. Billie’s got the right idea.
> I appreciate rudeness more than I do politeness and fake civility
I’m old fashioned. I find hurting people when an alternative exists is rarely the best course of action. Sure, it’s not as concise, but my observation is that far more time is spent repairing the wounds created by rudeness than are saved by its terseness.
Of course, the characters here are more or less children, so much should be excused.
Gotta say, it kind of bugs me that Becky must either be over Joyce, or secretly not respecting her boundaries.
I mean it’s been how many days? Of course Becky isn’t over Joyce. You don’t get over crushes that fast. But that doesn’t automatically translate to “is planning to convince Joyce she’s not really straight”. Like, why does “not being over Joyce” have to coincide with “not having accepted that Joyce isn’t interested”?
Mr K was referring to the arc where Malaya started eating unhealthily because Ultra Car didn’t actually care about Malaya’s outside, just her festering inside. She snapped out of it when Ultra Car pointed out that she (Ultra Car) was functionally immortal while Malaya was not, and UC was going to get as much Malaya as she could get, thank you very much.
I was going to make a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde joke, but I don’t know if Malaya has a last name (it’s not in her listing on the Shortpacked cast page) so I stalled at ‘Dr. Keener’.
Um… Dorothy Jekyll and Malaya Hyde? Let’s go with that.
Satisfying as it would be, and healthy as it would be for Joyce’s and Becky’s relationship, it would mean outing Ethan – and to a person who most likely would be terrible at keeping it secret.
Now if ETHAN would volunteer the information on the other hand…
Judging by the twin glances that Joyce and Ethan exchange, that might not be too likely. But if they go back to pretending to be a thing to fool Becky, with Becky intently watching them, “asking-to-watch” intently, that would make for some farcical hijinksensue. (I’m waiting for the fantasy sequence in which everyone is a different sex & orientation! (For those who recall and those who don’t It’s Walky has an arc in which Walky is transformed into a girl and Joyce into a boy, so Willis can totally do that sort of thing.))
She is a journalist. Putting the pieces together when people are reticent to spell it out is what she does.
I would say the lunchtime conversation about “my best friend is dating a gay guy and has a best friend who’s lesbian, wait no that doesn’t sound right lemme try again” may have gone a long way towards putting the pieces together.
When are you proposing they got a chance to talk about it? The conversation during lunch was interrupted by Joyce’s mom, then they were in class, and that’s probably 10 minutes or so ago, most of which was spent running, and worrying about a more important looming crisis (or so they thought, anyway).
Joe’s browsing history is probably just whatever websites he needs to access for school. If he’s that lucky. I can imagine him skipping most of his classes to get it on with the girl of the hour.
Fun Becky was largely a front she was putting on (part of pretending “everything is just as it has always been”, part of flirting with Walky to make Joyce jealous.). Here she shows more of herself, even if she’s not entirely sure who Sassy Becky really is or how she interacts with people.
One of the fundamental parts of Dumbing of Age as I see it is that people are nuanced. That includes Becky.
Only if you’re an equal opportunity pummeler. So, you’d need to include Mike, Joe, Walky, Joyce, Roz… oh hell, just punch the whole cast and call it good.
Man, Dorothy is crazy smart in this story. I’m not sure I’ve ever known someone who could manage as she has, not just balancing when to tease and when to be serious, and how to defuse situations, but the insight into what’s happening around her.
It seems like, at this point, we should have come to a drama-free resolution. Joyce tells Becky, “We just broke up, but no, that doesn’t mean I’m interested in girls, sorry.” Joyce tells Dorothy, “Yeah, I was dating a gay guy and trying to turn him straight, but then I realized that was wrong so I broke up with him.” (I realize this involves outing Ethan, but she effectively already did that.) And yet, this is Dumbing of Age, so it cannot possibly be that simple, and it worries me. I’m going to be really, really irritated if Joyce takes back the breakup.
I’m now picturing Willis in a black top hat and cape, playing Bach’s Toccatta and Fugue in D Minor, while saying to himself, “Yesss… gooood… first I made you all love Becky… now I shall make you all despise her. Dance, my pretty marionettes, dance!”
Am I the only one who’s kind of confused here? Did Dorothy really only JUST figure this out? Joyce revealed the whole Ethan deal to her, like, a week ago (in our time, not the comic’s time), during the gender studies class. Or did Dorothy actually fall for the whole “I have a friend” line? Because I’d like to give Dorothy more credit than that.
I don’t think Joyce got a chance to make clear what she was tying to say at the time. Maybe now Dorothy is flashing back to that cryptic conversation and realizing what Joyce really meant.
Oh, and I commend Willis for being brave enough to make the girl who just came out of the closet, was kicked out of her school, and ran away from her overstrict parents … A closet Jerk. Instead of taking the easy route and making her likeable.
Agreed! I actually didn’t really start trusting her until she started being a jerk since she came off as so perfect and likable before. Now I embrace Becky as another flawed member of the cast and I’m ready for some character development!
It’s pretty hilarious how many people in the comment section really, REALLY want Becky to Not Be A Jerk, as if she’s some sort of representation of Every Repressed Lesbian Ever.
And then the next the strip and it turns out, nope, she’s an actual person, and that person is a douche, sorry!
Oh, I’m not seeing her as a representation of all repressed lesbians. I just legitimately liked her as a character. THAT’S why I’m let down by the most recent events.
Not so much “jerk” as “super-awkward,” I think. I can’t remember if she was home-schooled or not, but I’ve certainly seen “just blurt out the first thing that comes into your head” encouraged as “Christian honesty.” See Jack Chick (ugh) on “little white lies”— they will still get you damned to hell. Or the cult of Dawkins, where being cruel/ rude is virtuous and kind, has gotten their claws into the newly-escaped… or she may be reveling in FINALLY not having to censor herself 24/7, and not realize there’s a line…
I don’t really have proof formulated for this, but although Dorothy is very clearly intelligent, she has never struck me as particularly intuitive in the way that, say, Sarah is.
I think she got sidetracked into trying to figure out if Joyce was coming out to her, and then diverted by the whole “Becky is a lesbian on the run from her asshole father but fortunately no one’s called looking for her, oh wait Joyce’s mom is calling” thing and hasn’t gotten back to, “Wait, what was that Joyce said about ‘her best friend’ dating a gay guy?” until she was reminded just now.
Her Passive-Aggression is on full AoE mode.
She isn’t shooting straight, just smashing at the floor and hoping the waves hit everything. WHAT IS SHE PLANNING?!
That’s actually pretty plausible, although it maaaay be subconscious. But so far the only one she’s really shown any –I want to say “campadreship” but I don’t think that’s a word; do I mean “kinship”?–the only one she really gets along well with is Walky, whom Joyce immediately upon his appearance made clear she considers a big poopy stink-head. And there’s that comment she made to Sarah, about how great it must be to get to have Joyce all to herself…
Ah, so the plot thickens! And yet at the same time something feels like it’s all falling in place. Some overlying plot that’s just waiting to resurface.
Liking this story arc, as well as the ways Dorothy and Walky are expanding the parts of their personalities we readers see– without even needing the limelight. I don’t think I’ve seen Dorothy being even a little insecure over superficial qualities before.
(I like, btw; as a runner who isn’t actually on the low end of the body fat spectrum, I’ve nonetheless been called bony or anorexic by inactive friends before, and it’s not an easy comment to shut down– not Dot’s situation here exactly, but I like that she gets to deal with that too)
That was something it took little kid me a while to get. Like if a lady is beating the shit out of me and I fight back, am I the bad guy? I just took it as a rule of thumb that I just shouldn’t hit anyone man or woman unless I’m REALLY getting my sit kicked in.
Um, I’m non-binary (dfab since that seems relevant here) and I prefer ‘gentleman.’ But that’s probably because a lot of my identity is tied up in the time I spent doing ballroom dance in school. And I like ‘gentlelead’ most of all. 😛
“Lady”, yeah, the behavioural etiquette for a “lady” is archaic and extremely problematic, given how many young girls are raised to be “ladylike” over being themselves.
“Gentleman”, however, is a form of social etiquette built around politeness, consideration, honour, and chivalry. These are good things which the men of today- overall and on average- need more of.
…The input of a dude who used to be known online as “that eccentric English gentleman” and was pretty definitely okay with that.
The whole “you’re not a real girl/woman/lady” argument is so tired, honestly. And often sexist. If you’re willing to apply the same logic to men, like Yotomoe did in his reply, then…it might be okay. But it just so often feels iike putting qualifications on personhood.
“The whole “you’re not a real girl/woman/lady” argument is so tired, honestly. And often sexist. If you’re willing to apply the same logic to men, like Yotomoe did in his reply, then…it might be okay…”
Well, actually Pie did apply the real girl/woman/lady argument to men, as he said a gentleman (read real man or respectable man) never does X, where X is striking a lady.
“But it just so often feels iike putting qualifications on personhood.”
As a matter of fact he did not put forth any qualifiers, disqualifiers, or standards on personhood or respectability for women, he actually only did so for men, so by your logic would he not be subjugating men and not women?
Also pardon for assuming that Pie identifies as male.
Look, I didn’t make any accusations towards Pie, did I? I was actually really careful not to. I said it’s “often” sexist and it “often feels like” putting qualifications on personhood. Which is a commentary on how I’ve seen this sort of argument used before in my life. I’ll thank you not to say I said things that I didn’t.
How about, “A person has no business hurting others when there is no greater good to be gained from it (e.g. an emergency tracheotomy, the protection of innocents, or kumite), or the greater good gained from it is strictly personal (since one must recuse one’s self when passing judgement upon others when it mostly benefits one’s self), regardless of gender or lack thereof of both subject and object”?
There are some guidelines about fighting that really don’t apply until puberty.
After puberty, there are two significant risk factors that kick in at different ages.
– Women of reproductive age have a possibility of being pregnant.
This is why pre-planned fights and sporting events are a really clear exception to the normal rules about violence and women – Women who opt into these events are essentially assuring their opponents that it’s safe to fight them.
Women past reproductive age have fairly high odds of osteoporosis. – People with osteoporosis are risking permanent disability if they get into a fight. They really can’t afford to do it. The bones break easily, and don’t heal well. Falls that would be nothing to a 20 year old can lead to a broken pelvis and a move to a nursing home.
I am totes confused. Is Becky so totally lesbi-centric (is that even a word?) since coming out that she automatically considers any female who does not actively shun her to be a lesbian (or lez-curious) themselves?
She’s carrying a torch for Joyce, and I doubt she has much experience with mature relationships. Infatuation does funny things to your head (and by funny I mean hilarious). In that case, she desperately wanted to believe it, so her mind rationalized it into existence. As far as I know she hasn’t applied the same rationalization to anybody else.
It’s been my experience that straight singletons also tend to assume that any member of the opposite gender who hasn’t expressly said ‘no’ is at least a potential partner. And remember that Becky doesn’t actually KNOW these people, except through Joyce, and nobody is wearing any ‘gay/not gay’ labels… so this seems like normal behaviour to me.
The only thing more messed-up than being a teenager is being a teenager who’s trying to deal with the fact that your upbringing tells you that your perfectly normal and utterly uncontrollable sexual drives are WRONG. Caps deliberate; I always felt I could hear that word in capitals when people pronounced, “Being gay is WRONG.”
I don’t get why people are started to hate Becky so much, compared to what the other Characters have said and done to each other is she really that bad.
Which, in truth, may make her one of the greatest villains this strip has had up to this point. We’ll justhave to see if Willis goes that route and actually makes her into a villain, instead of just rude.
Well, she’s not there yet. But if Becky IS turned into a villain, her progression into that role will be VERY emotionally potent. Blaine was a villain from the start (as were Mary and Raidah, two other potential villains), and Ross is only a villain because of clashing ideology (and, obviously, because he’s a bigoted dick to his own daughter, although, again, that’s simply because of his deeply ingrained beliefs). Ryan DID get some character introduction before he came out as a fully-fledged villain, but not much. But Becky? We KNEW Becky. We LIKED Becky! She’s the first character you see in the DoA universe (if you’re looking left-to-right.)! We felt bad for her. We were witness to major character development with her. We worried about her. We CARED about her! She won the favorite character poll!! Can’t say that for any of the previously mentioned villains of the strip.
If Becky becomes a villain, the betrayal is going to be DEVASTATING. To Joyce AND to the DoA fanbase.
I’d throw Naomi into the mix as well. Ethan’s mom who tells him to fuck Joyce’s brains out (a literal quote), exposing that her entire reason for seeing her son as a dissapointment is because she cares more about whether or not she’ll have grandchildren than her son’s feelings.
Not that bad, but if Becky continues to let her mouth run wherever it wants to without thought for the feelings of those around her, she might as well apprentice under Mike.
Everyone else acts within the bounds of their established relationships. Mike’s an asshole so nobody really likes him. Mary’s hateful to everyone so she has no friends. Walky’s a dick to Joyce so she dislikes him. Becky’s just spraying rude comments everywhere with no reason or indication she cares she’s hurting people’s feelings.
I think it’s a result of Mr. Willis’ exceptional storytelling. The readers are emotionally invested in the story. The mood swings as the story turns. In some strange way, it’s almost a complement to the author to care enough to hate.
Personally I like them all, as much for their negative traits as their positive ones. Willis tells a well rounded story.
I like a good villain as a good story element. I like him because it’s very satisfying to see a glass smashed into his face. Same with Blaine, except even more so because all the harm he’s caused amber creates a compelling story.
Not personally, though. As real people they would compel me to disregard my fondness for non-violence. As story elements, they are great.
Of course outside of those two and other unambiguous villains, I consider the rest of the cast to be generally good and likeable people, despite their character flaws. And the fact that they have character flaws makes them all the more charming.
No, it really isn’t. Compare the reaction to Joe’s recent behaviour.
Almost nobody called him out on being an asshole to Danny, and the near-universal reaction to him being an objectifying douche in Gender Studies was ‘haha, good thing Joe’s there to break the tension with humour’.
Becky, on the other hand, gets called ‘worst character ever’ for relatively low-grade rudeness.
We already know Joe is a jerk, there’s no debate there, therefore no conversation. Who’s going to say he’s not a dick? He’s a dick. Nobody is going to say a person like Mike ISN’T a dick. That’s his thing. That’s their things, they’re dicks, we are rarely asked to be sympathetic towards them. When we accept a person is a Douche, it’s easier to laugh at their shenanigans, because it’s just a punchline that everyone accepts as being Douchey, both in and out of universe.
But here people keep actively defending Becky, so of course there’s going to be more talking, because that’s how it works. One person says something, another person disagrees, a person disagrees with the disagreement, etc.
And the “bony” comment to Dorothy was way beyond low-grade rudeness, it was Joe-level dickery, maybe even beyond his usual fare a little. Except people are defensive about it because Reasons. People do not want to accept that Becky is a Douche the same way we accept that Joe is a Douche. People want to sympathize with Becky because of the unfortunate circumstances that brought her to the college. That’s the situation characters like Joyce is in, hell, in the last strip she was being guilted by the “Not everything is about you” comment so that she now probably feels she’s not entitled to her own feelings.
Personally, I think it’s possible to sympathize with her AND accept she’s a Douche. That’s what I do! The only difference between her rudeness and Joe’s rudeness for me is that hers comes across as less funny, like she’s just being rude for the sake of being rude . I’m not even sure it’s MEANT to be funny. I think we’re supposed to look at this and go, Huh, maybe she IS being a bit of a cock.
I don’t know why this particular strip makes everyone hate Becky? Except for being her typical insensitive self, I don’t think what she’s saying here is that bad. She has NO way of knowing the Ethan beard situation. Sure, she’s clearly not over Joyce and that clouds what she’s saying a bit, but it’s not with malicious intent? I don’t know. She has no idea that she just put her finger on the hot button issue. Unlike Dorothy, whose super-sleuth mind has now caught up with what’s happening. There will be a lot of tears and awkwardness coming for everyone involved soon. Which… isnt’ new in this comic, really xD
Yeah… Was her reaction to finally meeting Dorothy, who Walky and possibly also Joyce (I forget offhand) have mentioned as being very important to Joyce, really just to ignore Dorothy’s proffered hand, make a rude comment about her appearance to Joyce as if Dorothy wasn’t even there, and then laugh and walk away without once actually acknowledging her presence or the introduction?
It’s not This Individual Strip, it’s this strip on top of the other ones. Becky’s used up her saved up goodwill for many readers, passed the neutral state and is now just annoying them.
Ok yeah, I can sort of see that. She’s not my favorite character either (even though she’s had some of my favorite lines recently), but I do get her, I relate to what she’s going through on some level, so I have sympathies. But yeah, she’s rude. Maybe she’s gonna calm down or maybe that’s just how she is, I guess we’ll see.
I’m also not sure where you (or others for that matter) are getting the “everyone hates becky” vibe. I’ve really only seen one, maybe two comments out of hundreds on each becky strip where anyone flat out says they hate her.
I’m not defending her or anything, I just noticed a few ‘she’s being a jerk’, ‘I hate her’, ‘can I punch her’ today and I was wondering what it was about this strip in particular. But I can totally see it now, being more an aggregation of the last few weeks that made people react negatively towards her. It was just me seing a few comments on *today*’s strip in particular that struck me as disproportionate. I don’t love her, either, but I don’t hate her and can understand a lot about her, on a personal level, so maybe I notice negative reactions to her more than I do to others. Could be. I don’t know.
Well part of it may be that hurt people sometimes lash out at whomever is there. Becky has been kicked out of college, had to run away from home for her own safety, and been rejected by her long term crush and best friend. Some of those are wounds that will take a long time to heal.
I’m in the minority here, but I haven’t liked Becky since we met her. She rubbed me the wrong way from the get-go. She’s so abrasive and she doesn’t know when to politely shut up. I get that it’s just her feeling “free” but my god, girl.
No, you don’t understand…she has 18 years of repression to get out of her system. so she can act however she wants and no one can dare say she is in the wrong!
To be fair, that’s how kids/teens sometimes act when they’re suddenly no longer under their parent’s thumb-or even how adults act when interacting anonymously with strangers. It’s kind of a natural reaction to being unrestrained.
That said, I’m not sure I’ve even seen enough of Becky’s character to pass judgement yet.
Clearly what’s happened here is that I’ve rolled a 1 and a 2. On whatever sided die is necessary to represent the number of gravatars. 72, maybe? Barely dice at that point, more like a marble.
When I was younger, we’d just roll 2D10 and use one for the 10’s and the other for the ones. Or maybe it was 2D20; I don’t remember now. Get off my lawn!
That’s how anyone who wants to get an actual result and not spend the night trying to dig the golfball out from under the couch after it rolled all the way across the table without even slowing down does it.
Technically, that die can’t be unbiased — the faces can’t all be the same size and the dihedral angles (between faces) aren’t constant, so some kinds of outcomes must be more likely than others. That’s why the original dice were the convex regular polyhedra; they, and they alone, are convex and have isomorphic faces and constant dihedral angles. (I don’t even know how I’d read a die made in the form of a great stellated dodecahedron, even though it would have more than 20 sides.)
Well, you can do spindle (like the d10, two n/2-tagonal pyramids stuck together at their bases) or barrel (n-tagonal prism with rounded or pyramidal ends) dice, too. Barrel dice particularly let you do fair odd-sided dice, though you have to read the edges rather than the faces.
I’ve seen a d7 that was a pentagonal prism. They swore it was tuned so that the different face sizes and different dihedral angles canceled out and it was fair, but I’m not sure I believed them.
You run into the same problem with any method I’ve seen of making a die with more than about 20 faces, though. (And even the regular icosahedron d20 is marginal.) They roll forever.
I have never seen or heard the term beard before today and I didn’t get why everyone was surprised until I looked it up. I was raised in a less conservative household than Joyce or Becky, how did they know it??
That’s what I use, Google let’s me use spam trap versions of my real e-mail addy that read as my real addy when authenticating programs but unless I set a filter on incoming messages with the addy they get sent straight to spam. That’s how I set up the program for my bicycle to answer relationship questions for a “dear Abby” style column for people not getting along with their bicycles and vice-versa.
How do you do the one email has many trick? I saw someone do it earlier, but I didn’t think it would be that useful then. Like Google recognizes it as one, but everywhere else recognizes it as different, I think…
I’m not particularly surprised Becky knows, since she actually seems like she wasn’t living in as large of a social void. That *Joyce* knows the word, however, is surprising.
It’s a pretty common term….but it wouldn’t surprise me to meet ultra-conservatives who are familiar with the ways gay people hide themselves, if you know what I mean. The more passionate you are about an issue — positive or negative — the more you’re likely to learn about it.
In my experience, social conservatives — particularly extreme ones — are actually stunningly ignorant about sexuality and sex in general. Rejecting conception from rape? Homosexuality related to pederasty? Need for a pair of differently-gendered cis parents? Hell, the notion of “[A] Gay Agenda?”
What’s a Gay Agenda? Is it an Outlook Calendar for Queer Folk?
This is perfect, TrueVCU and Rycan. And also makes me want to see real extracurriculars (intramural sports? clubs? hall government?) other than journalism to give more characters that don’t often interact a good reason to. Though (1) superheroing kind of IS an extracurricular in this universe and (2) my wish doesn’t necessarily apply to the specific characters that spurred this train of thought since they have roommate/suitemate/friends-of-friend relationships that can cause them to interact anyway.
Man, I am so not enthused about being Mary now. That’s the worst grav to have, everything I say will now sound devious and judgemental and mean. I never thought I’d ever want Danny back xD
If you don’t have a gravatar specified for that email address, the system will assign you one at random for this site. The random selection is re-shuffled each time the gravar pool is updated, so sometimes after it happens, a whole bunch of “who is my gravatar now” posts show up.
The fact that so many of us are annoyed at Becky and so many of us agree with Walky shows that Mr. Willis is an awesome storyteller. You actually start caring about the characters. I love this comic. 🙂 😀
Man, I’m really starting to see what Joyce meant when she said at the beginning of the comic that she was the most socially well-adjusted of her homeschooling group.
I still love Becky. She’s the loud mouthed, no filters system shock this messed up dynamic between Joyce and Ethan (and Dorothy, since Joyce was hiding it from her) needed.
Becky’s just not into that whole “listening to other people” thing. Could be her fundy upbringing – often they are the people who most like to talk and least like to listen. And Joyce isn’t really assertive enough to deal with it effectively.
I get the feeling her emotional age is something like 13-14 not helped by her upbringing of course but to me shes just acting like a spoiled little brat
Yeah, seriously. You know how fundies like Walky don’t listen to other people’s discomfort. Or, conversely, how really secular folks like Joyce are super-good at being sensitive to other people’s discomfort and work hard to understand them.
You know how it is: fundamentalists are self-centered and cruel, while secularists are other-centered and kind.
It was indeed. Joyce isn’t perfect — but she’s a Hell of a lot kinder than Walky, who’s a jerk that can occasionally respond appropriately to unkindess (see panel 2, today.) Sierra is religious according to Word of Willis, yet she’s not insensitive. Mary is a religious hypocrite, and Mike is a secular bully and serial abuser. Dorothy, an atheist, is a genuinely kind and considerate young woman.
Willis hasn’t built a tie between religiosity and kindness — which is a good thing, as there isn’t one in real world, either.
The fact that Joyce broke it off with Ethan *because* of Becky coming out to her and making her realize what she was doing was wrong apparently didn’t register…?
That didn’t really have anything to do with Becky herself, any non-self-loathing homosexual would have had the same effect. The sham only lasted as long as it did because Ethan was feeding into her preconceived notions of homosexuality, what it meant and how it could be ‘fixed’.
But it’s literally the point of the chapter? You know, “three’s a crowd”? It wouldn’t have happened without a third variable, which is in this case is Becky, putting things into a different perspective for Joyce and triggering a change.
You may not like Becky as a character but come on, you can’t deny her being an integral part of the storyline…
And no, it couldn’t have been any other homosexual character. It needed to be somebody that Joyce loves enough to voluntarily override her programming for. And Becky is it.
Joyce always chooses love over hate, she was only being Ethan’s beard because she thought she was helping him. She still would have had the same values, still would have been in the class when Leslie explained exactly how LGTBQ kids get treated by religious families and likely would have still been told off by Roz.
No, I don’t think so. There are plenty of non-self-loathing lesbians in Joyce’s life right now. There’s the couple down the hall. There’s Billie. (She doesn’t know about Ruth yet — but, then again, neither did Ruth!) There’s Leslie.
And those are just the ones we know about. We don’t know if she’s met Daisy. I’d be shocked if she hadn’t met some non-self-loathing gay men — I certainly did when I was there!
She doesn’t speak to Grance and Mandy, she’s just vaguely aware they exist, she didn’t know Leslie was a lesbian until this very day’s class, and she doesn’t understand bisexuality and thinks Billie made a few mistakes before coming back to the boys. She’s ignorant, not hateful.
I knew Becky was trouble since the beginning. As soon as she came to visit her. I knew it.
And she is presently
– Changing completly her personality to be one of a homosexual girl with a huge mouth.
– Creating chaos in the campus.
– Making everyone, including reader, uncomfortable.
I just hope someone will tell her to stop at once. And that she understand it.
– You’re assuming that the Becky we saw at first was the “real” Becky. It seems to me that Becky hasn’t changed but rather feels free to act more like how she wants to act and how she wants to act emulates what she knows lesbians “do”. It’s a common thing for a lot of people coming out of a closet to assume they have to act in a certain way. She’ll grow out of it. Some parts of it. (Also, have people forgotten that she enjoyed getting on Joyce’s nerves before coming out?)
– “Chaos” might be a bit of hyperbole. She’s at most inconveniencing a few people.
– I’m more uncomfortable by people hating on Becky for not being perfect than by Becky, tbh.
–
Becky’s shedding her heteronormative facade to embrace the person she really is inside, and this is somehow a bad thing because apparently the fake not-lesbian version of Becky was somehow superior
Well, real Becky has been sexually harassing Joyce despite promising not to just a few hours earlier and then laughing about how uncomfortable it’s making her. That’s not going to get anyone on her side. Neither is rudely insulting Joyce’s other friends.
The sad fact is that right now fake closeted Becky was nicer and more likable to people than she currently is. Because current Becky is being a dick.
Becky’s harassment of Joyce makes me think of another character… Joe. Joe tried to seduce Joyce (as well as Sarah), but after being rejected he has backs off. Ironic that somehow in this that Joe actually becomes the one who sets the GOOD moral example.
Like Becky herself said, it’s not all about Joyce. Becky does need to learn that what she’s doing is wrong but she’s also obviously not over being attracted to Joyce (and probably won’t be for a while). Joyce and Becky need to find a balance and considering how their relationship has changed in just a few days, that might take a while (more than a day, that’s for sure).
Joyce herself at first seemed more intent in telling herself that God would approve of what she’s doing and not in telling Becky that she supports her. Even now when Joyce was seemingly ready to accept her she’s put off by Becky’s decision to change her appearance (remember the “too much Becky” phrase?). I find that to be more dickish than allowing yourself to be more “you” and hoping your best friend will be ok with it.
Also, Joe hasn’t had a crush on Joyce or Sarah for years on which he hasn’t acted upon because he feels it would be morally wrong to do so, so that’s not a good example.
Currently Reacting To Hyperstress Situation Becky is not real Becky.
Real Becky is likely to emerge when she’s had time to get used to being out and feel out who she actually likes being. Everything you’re seeing in the roughly 24 hours since she arrived is reaction to a trauma that was also the end of a lifetime’s being trapped.
Hmm, a very good read on the situation. Becky’s dropping her guard, and this threatens to push away the very people whose help she so desperately needs?
I hope Becky’s natural obnoxious cheer is just part of her innate personality, because rereading that article made me wonder if it’s another layer to her facade– to laugh so she doesn’t cry.
Of course she’s jealous of Ethan and Dorothy — she thought she wanted Joyce! Is that what you think people shouldn’t be uncomfortable with? If so, then I agree.
I’m uncomfortable with her constant belittling of other people — not just Joyce (“Stay there while you reboot?” Seriously?) but also Dorothy (knowingly) and Ethan (out of ignorance.) I’d think that would be a reasonable thing to be uncomfortable about.
I am also extremely uncomfortable about characters who are condescending, rude, or sexually inappropriate towards Joyce, make fun of Dorothy to her face, or who boldly and publicly express their sexual identity.
Which is why Walky, Mike, Joe, Amber, Danny, Sal, Sarah, Dina, Leslie, Roz, Robin, Jacob, Dorothy, Billie, and Ruth all make me very uncomfortable.
I’m going to go ahead and assume that every reader feels exactly the same way.
I just realized that given what Joyce has done in the Walkyverse having a fake boyfriend is not a new thing for her at all. I can’t believe it took me this long to make that connection – I guess just because there’s a wildly different context in this universe.
It seems like Becky was introduced not too long ago (it’s only been a few days in canon) and right from the start everyone was “oh wow, Becky is the best, I love her, I voted for my favorite in the poll too early!” and now it’s all “wow Becky is the actual worst, I hated her before it was cool, she’s literally Satan” etc. Like, she’s just a kid who had to put up a brave front for everyone, hiding who she really was, and now that she can own up to her true self all the ugly shit she was too nice to say is coming tumbling out.
I’m not saying it’s right, I’m saying it’s understandable. And honestly, I still like her, I’m not that fickle. So she’s said some jerkish stuff. So has literally everyone else in this comic.
… What makes you people think I’d want to go to Heaven if only people like Joyce, Becky, Mary, and their parents will be there? I mean, I suppose I could love it if, say, Willis (arguably older version of Joyce, but there’s a huge difference0 was there, but still.
I’ve been warned by church elders that this is exactly why Satan fell— saying, “Hey, this doesn’t seem fair! I don’t want to be part of a system that sets good people on fire and calls it benevolent!” I suspect influence by some pop-culture depiction of Satan— “non-denominational” and “divinely-inspired” meaning in this case “Do you know how expensive a Doctor of Divinity is these days? And they don’t accept ‘divine revelation from a dream’ as source material, those scoundrels!” Nevertheless, if you look at them, an awful lot of the parables of Jesus run along the theme of, “Sounds unfair? He’s God, you’re not, get over yourself!”— but more in the direction of being nice to the “undeserving”— people getting paid no matter how long the vineyard shift was, Samaritans not being *ssh*l*s even though they were that period’s equivalent of Nazis, etc.
The real question is, will Dorothy be able to piece together WHY Joyce starting dating Ethan, rather than assume that it’s because she really, really wants a boyfriend?
Jeez. Catching up on the last week now, and Becky’s likability is taking a dive. Its one thing to be free-spirited, but shes also being tactless and inconsiderate.
There was no excuse for what she said to Dorothy, especially on a first meeting. Thankfully Dorothy’s a fairly confident individual- but saying the same thing to an insecure person can be devastating. (Speaking as someone who was a deeply-insecure teen.)
That – right there – is the main appeal with the comic for me. People learning by their mistakes and helping each other getting better than they were before.
Remember though, Joyce’s confession was interrupted by Walky sitting down (and the subsequent discussion of Becky’s situation). Having the issue of a homeless Lesbian to contemplate might have kept her from piecing things together.
I think a lot of the reason people are getting annoyed with Becky is that, while coming out is always a hugely emotional moment and even moreso for Becky who has lost her education and her family, eventually you get off the high and start mellowing out. And while all of this has occurred over the span of just two days, we’ve also been reading Becky’s story for months, and there’s really no chance of her cutting it out anytime soon. I’m okay with Becky being really open and proud, because it’s a completely realistic depiction of coming out for the first time and because I think it’s great to have an LGBT character in the comic who is completely accepting and proud of their sexuality, but I’m already getting tired of her ribbing on Joyce.
I don’t know, I’d like to believe most of the people here complaining about he aren’t doing it because she’s being “too gay” but more because she’s being an obnoxious loudmouth with no concept of personal boundaries. Being gay, or bi, or trans isn’t a personality trait. It’s who you are. I should know.
Once that high ends Becky’s going to crash really hard. Losing her family, her education, having no place to call her own, no money, discovering that IU and the secular world-at-large isn’t actually a mecca of LGBT tolerance, it’s all going to hit her in short order and it will hit very hard. I suspect Ruth will be somehow involved. Probably booting her in the head, it seems a Canuck thing to do.
It occurred to me that my post seems to be arguing that Becky’s being really openly gay was her main problem right now. So I’d like to amend that by saying that my issue with Becky is that she’s being really obnoxious and rude, as a consequence of her coming out and the subsequent drama bombs. I’d like it if she’d stop ribbing on Joyce, but I’m glad she’s being open.
Becky’s unintentionally being a jerk because she has a really bad brain to mouth filter and she’s really ecstatic that she’s come out and so she’s just saying everything that comes to mind without thinking about it.
So on an unrelated note to the Becky drama, I’m kind of wigged out by Joyce taking pictures of Ethan’s butt without his knowing. It goes beyond wacky repressed fundie girl and makes me think of her as kind of a creeper.
It’s fun to see attempts at humorous ribbing go terribly, horribly wrong. Sitcom characters always seem to be able to pull it off, and it’s funny, but I can’t relate to those magically funny people in their consequenceless world. I prefer Becky screwing up and having to deal with the fall out, like an average person trying to play comedian.
Will she deal with the fallout though? She seems more like a tornado — sweep in, trash the place, and then leave the cleanup to the people who lived there in the first place.
Joyce and Ethan’s expressions in the third panel are pure gold. And I really do hope that Joyce can see Dorothy again soon to tell her that she broke up with Ethan.
I find it slightly odd and uncomfortable that more people reading this particular comic are piling on Becky for… what? Last comic’s actions? Than are even mentioning Walky’s little “ooh, is there an excuse to hit a girl” evolution of unwanted chivalry into excuses for violence.
I mean, Becky has no idea that Joyce and Ethan or beard issues are a sore spot (because Joyce has not told her) and is making a self-deprecating joke about herself and supporting Joyce in her own way (which is a huge growth character-wise given how much she was in love with Joyce). In fact, shitting on Joyce’s best friend in college that Walky said Joyce is in lesbians with (gosh no ideas how she could be threatened/jealous of that) is pretty much the only super negative point of this little bit.
I mean, looking at her actions, she has supported what has to be a really painful relationship and in her “all smiles Becky” persona trying to support Joyce’s sexuality and relationships and even shut down Joyce’s guilt train hard, smoothing over an earlier point of conflict and making it Becky’s thing instead of Joyce’s and turning it into a joke, which if you’ll notice here has completely distracted her from the self-abusive spiral Joyce was getting on from her triggers and the emotionally intense class.
In fact, I think this is what Becky sees as her “job” as friend is. To lighten up the mood and distract where she can, which is why in public she puts on the persona of light-hearted, rude and crude Becky, the clown and only breaks down when she literally can’t handle all the emotions she’s burying coming back up at once.
And unlike Joe who does the same thing, Becky at least is willing to be self-deprecating when it’s important to be, instead of constantly dumping it on the people who make her feel things.
But I suppose it’s unsurprising that a crude (Walky), horny (Joe) character who can be an asshole at times (Mike) would rub more people the wrong way and be given less slack when they are of a gender that has douchiness often interpreted as b-wordiness.
That’s a good reading of Becky. She’s obviously the clown of her group and now she throws herself into that persona full stop.
We must not forget just how much of Joyce’s crap she doesn’t know about. She doesn’t know about the assault, she doesn’t know about Ethan being gay, she doesn’t know about the fight with her parents about Dorothy, she doesn’t know how hard Joyce feels it is fitting in, she doesn’t know about Roz outburst at her today. I think that in Becky’s mind Joyce is still the cute & clueless thing we saw in the beginning of the comic (if a tad more open to things like best friends being lesbians).
I still believe we will get a scene down the line when Joyce finally manages to tell her everything that’s going on and Becky will be all like “Joyce…. all this time you try support me – now let me help YOU).
It think it’s mostly because of unfortunate timing. She’s said before that she enjoys making Joyce uncomfortable, which was probably something Joyce never minded before they separated to go to college, but now is something she does whenever her friend is going through an emotional situation that, granted Becky has no way of knowing about, but we readers have been recently reminded of which affects our perception of her and the page we’re commenting on.
If Joyce only a page earlier made a visible effort to improve herself or had illusionary Ryans walking around and then gets treated like she’s being kinda selfish, we react because we still have that page fresh in our memory and more easily forget that Becky has no way of knowing about either situation until anyone in comic informs her about it.
Cartoonish violence is sometimes lost on webcomic readers. Just look at the people over at the QC forums who still hate Faye because she used to punch people in the arm 10 years ago. =P
But hey, maybe we were supposed to believe that she literally threw Angus across the room that one time. 😉
I like it. I can be a Becky when I’m with friends, too– though I don’t casually insult other people, beyond light ribbing followed by a compliment, just because you never know.
I think it´s more because she´s new. People are used to Mike´s, Joe´s and Walky´s behavior for years now and they have their established fanbase like Joyce and Ethan. She´s new and rude. People who don´t like Mike´s and Joe´s behavior complain less because they are used to it and after a while it´s business as usual.
Oh and at the moment Becky is more or less completely dependant on Joyce who can get into major trouble for this whole affair and it seems that Joyce is spending a lot more effort adjusting her world views, giving her a place to sleep and food and Becky spends the only money she has on a hair cut.
So checking out some of the reactions on Willis’ tumblr, does anyone here think that the criticism Becky has been getting the last few strips comes from being loudly, openly gay or just from her actions, and if we’re being unfairly critical towards Becky for stuff other cast members have done?
Personally, I’m kind of annoyed with Becky’s latest appearance, but I never considered others criticisms to be stemming from any kind of bigotry.
I have absolutely no problem with Becky being loudly, openly gay. I still don’t like her, though, because she’s got very little tact, has been to my eyes rather manipulative and is currently coming across as a bit too self-centered for my liking. She’s also just been downright rude to Dorothy, and for absolutely no reason at that. Dorothy has barely exchanged two words with her and done absolutely nothing but try to be there for Joyce. Result: she gets insulted to her face. Not cool, Becky.
I guess I’d find her less annoying if she came across as less fundamentally inconsiderate and seemed to have some idea how her presence and her actions were effecting everyone else around her, but she really doesn’t seem inclined to do that right now. Becky thinking primarily of herself and her problems is understandable given her situation, but it being understandable doesn’t mean it’s okay.
I really doubt it. Most people with any bigotry towards homosexuals wouldn’t last one chapter through Willis’ comic before dismissing it as nazi-communist gay agenda propaganda before burning the computer and dousing the flames with holy water to purge the sin they’ve witnessed from their house.
In my experience, the worst comments towards Becky are made because she insults someone that only a page or two earlier got a lot of sympathy from the readers for some reason or another.
I must say, I liked becky a LOT more before she was fuckin rude as hell to dorothy. Also not sure about that haircut, but I guess I just don’t like that haircut in general.
Also kind of feels like she just got it so she’d look like a lesbian, which would really make sense as a thing she’d do imo.
When Becky and Walky met the first time, I was laughing so hard I was crying. I adored her. And I do like her new cut, as it’s my current style too. But…jeez.
Every time she opens her mouth it’s like, where did the likeable Becky go? Pls to bring her back.
Guys, she’s homeless and angry and scared. She’s been told all her life that no-one will love her and the Big Guy in the Sky will set her on fire if she is honest about who she is. The love of her life turned her down flat not twenty hours ago, claiming she’s not into girls, and she sees the subject of her rejection looking VERY like she has a mad pash on another girl— and makes a snide comment at her. Maybe it’s not excusable, but it is understandable.
We understand all that. Yeah, horrible situation, life changing events, etc. Whatever. It’s not excusable. So stop excusing it by laying out every bad thing that’s happening to her. We know. We’ve seen it. We understand some of why she might be acting like a jerk. That doesn’t make it ok, or even tolerable.
I think its even forgivable if she apologizes! She’s had a REALLY rough week, and she probably both needs people and can’t handle being around people. Its a hard place to be. 🙁
Its just … really upsetting how dismissive Becky is of Dorothy (in addition to body policing! We know that Dorothy is pretty self confident, but does Becky?). But, these strips are coming at 1 day per few seconds of interaction. Maybe she’s going to apologize for the joke soon? Or say hi to Dorothy soon?
I don’t think I could like Becky any less and then she opens her mouth again. I’ve been around people like this and they are the worst form of obnoxious
I really hope someone smacks some sense into Becky soon. She’s being worse then Mike. At least Mike doesn’t profess to care about people. Everyone knows that Mike is a jerk who shouldn’t be paid any attention to. But Becky knows better. Becky is (hopefully) not a sociopath. Becky should stop purposely being a huge jerk to those who care for her and have tried to help her. Mike doesn’t expect people to treat him well, or care about him, or help him out. Becky does. She somehow thinks it’s ok to be a jerk and yet no one should treat her badly. Someone needs to kick her. Maybe we can get Mike in here to give her a taste of her own medicine.
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And the shoe drops.
QUICK!!! SOMEONE CATCH IT!!!
Too late. It belongs to Ruth now.
Last I remember someone threw it down the hall in a fit of teenage rebellion.
A certain ‘bony poindexter’?
It was valiantly kicked. We all remember the seriousness on Dorothy’s face.
sssssssssssss bouth that…….
Oh nooooo….
Oh sweet, I accurately predicted that that comment would be appropriated when I typed it 4 hours ago
I sincerely hope that Gravitar was a random act of nature.
It’s a Willis comic. On any given day you have a 75% chance of that comment being applicable.
Ooh, shmancy new gravatar. I dig it.
Your mother is appropriated.
(for a unit of change)
Is that unit of charge $0.05?
oh dear
Oh that is NOT going to go well.
Should be interesting, though. Dorothy knows the score, and she’s not happy about it… so the ball’s in her court.
Hey yeah, I just realized that Becky probably looks more “bony” than Dorothy in the first place; where does that girl get off?
In her room. To pictures of blonde girls in sweater vests.
Everyone’s got their fetish.
I really thought I was setting someone up for “In Joyce’s bed, after Joyce falls asleep.”
And really, who could blame her?
Special Victims Unit?
DUN DUN.
Okay, actually after looking at some other Becky appaearances I guess she’s maybe a little curvier than my mental picture of her. And I always think of Dorothy and Amber as having like the exact same body type but I guess Dorothy is a little slimmer. Oh, when oh when will fictional girls stop giving each other shit over how they look. *wink wink fictional righhhht*
“Bony” was a mean thing for Becky to say, but Dorothy is definitely thin. Amber seems much curvier (“Hugs Bosoms” and all)…I guess Amber is more Becky’s type? Love the variety of body shapes in this comic. Makes it realistic.
Especially considering we’ve seen Dorothy mostly nekkid and I certainly don’t recall her being awkwardly gangly.
Dotty’s what I’d call ‘athletic’. a jogger’s physique. Small, light, well-muscled, with a thin but healthy layer of fat beneath the skin. They’re definitely in the popular style of ‘attractive’, but they require a lot of exercise to maintain, and athletic women don’t tend to have the breast size I enjoy. My $.02, salt to taste.
If you get Slipshine you can do side by side.
I think Becky’s type is Joyce. She hides it under the sweater-vests, but she’s definitely curvier than Dorothy, if not up to Amber or Billie’s standard.
You think Joyce covers up something nice Velma from Scooby Doo style? Interesting. And they’ve grown up together too, so she’d have more chances of seeing Joyce under her layers than most too…
Y’see, I’d have thought that Dorothy is curvier than Joyce, based on what I’ve seen of how they’re each usually drawn. Or perhaps I’m wrong.
Or perhaps Becky is just trying to goad Joyce into defending her crush and accidentally outing herself. ;-P
I think Becky’s type is Joyce. Full stop. So of course she’s gonna rag on Dorothy…aka Replacement Becky.
Well remember, Becky once thought Joyce had a thing for her, too. I took that one controversial comic as Becky being a little self-deprecating and calling Dorothy _and_ herself bony.
(It’s still a mean thing to say, but exactly the kind of “candor” you get from college freshman who are trying to discover themselves.)
She was probably commenting on her boobs, mostly. Becky has a larger chest than Dorothy.
Nobody wants bony boobies.
With your mom for a nickel
Goddamnit. I haven’t felt this sad in a long time D:
Not gonna lie, I immediately pictured Obi-Wan Kenobi saying that.
I felt a great disturbance in the fandom, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and then went to the comments section to express their feelings.
See, this is why millions of intelligent (or somewhat) beings think well of you. Incidentally, are you in need of another race to commit violence on your behalf at the drop of a hat? I feel the Klingons are greatly underrepresented.
Becky has the power to destroy an entire planet? DAMN!
If only you knew the power of the shaved side…cut.
Joyce! Lez out with me! And together we will rule this college!
I’LL NEVER LEZ OUT WITH YOU! Not that there’s anything wrong with that…
Joyce: I’LL NEVER LEZ OUT WITH YOU, BECKY! BUT I MIGHT LEZ OUT WITH DOROTHY….
…o shit did I just say that out loud??
Dorothy: O_O
Dorothy: =O_O=
Thanks, I’m well aware of the power of the shaved side. *Ahem*
Took her long enough.
She’s been a little distracted with the Joyce and Becky situation.
She has crossed a line here. Let’s see how that works for her now
I think it works by at least two of the three people she just met not becoming her friends.
One outta three ain’t bad…
One at best.
yeah…
i’m seeing tolerance from all three, but no actual friendship.
it would be interesting if walky got development via annoyance at his female counterpart, though.
Walky? Development?…eh, stranger things have happened.
SORRY, I DIDN’T SEE IT.
Who is “she”? Becky? Joyce? Dorothy? Probably Dorothy. I know she kinda censored it down to “Jeez” but that is still using the lord’s name in vain and obviously the most terrible thing anyone in that group has done.
Ummmm irony?
The use of words expressing something other than their literal intention.
Now that…is…irony!
You know what is irony?
Iron.
Pretty irony, if you ask me.
Naw, that’s ferrous. Or ferric. Depends on how many electrons you pilfer.
See, Vincent, you gotta steel yourself for pedantry when you make that pun.
And chemists
Who let Bender in here?
Ironically, I’m pretty sure that definition is actually for sarcasm. 😉
No, sarcasm is a mean, harsh comment that can be ironic but doesn’t have to be.
Not always. Sarcasm can be meanspirited, but can also be an impassive method of pointing out ironic situations. Unless used in a chat room or comment section where it’s impossible to detect and inevitably gets taken seriously by everyone except the person using it. Until that person sees a sarcastic remark by someone else and inevitably takes it seriously.
*kkkkgkggkg* HAAHAHAAAHehhehheheeeeehoo hhoohhohhohhoooohaaahahaahahaaheeehhehehe… he he’s.. HER beard! HEEEHEEHEHAAAA HA haaahahahaha!
Mutual beardage, mayhaps? 🙂
Of the dramatic variety.
well isn’t it great how all this is not awkward in the slightest yep no problems here.
*plays Boston’s “Smokin'” on the Muzak*
Dorothy really needs to go with them for damage control.
What damage is there to be controlled? Beck can’t really get too mad at Joyce for being the same way SHE was ‘fore college.
Welp
In the grand tradition of crazy Joyce face gravatars, that first one would look pretty corking with like a cyborg eye filling in for where Becky’s head is.
A Terminator Joyce? Promissing. Imagining her meeting Sal.
“I need your clothes, your boots, and a ride on your motorcycle. And can I please brush your hair?”
Okay, this took a while to dawn on me, but I think I know some of what’s going on here.
Becky is not entirely over Joyce, romantically.
She can be a jerk, but she usually has a REASON. One would think she’d want to make as many friends as she could, as fast as she could, because she IS scared and she DOES need support.
But instead, we get “So this is your REAL boyfriend! TOTALLY REAL! Well, cool! If you guys wanna kiss in front of me right now, go for it! Not that you have to prove anything, but… tell you what, I’ll wait.” Getting Joyce to admit that this is not a real relationship removes one obstacle.
Assuming that obstacle #2, Joyce not liking girls, will just kind of work itself out as Joyce’s sexual awakening continues– which *I* don’t think it will but *Becky* might still believe it will– then obstacle #3 is Dorothy, and that’s why Becky treats her like The Competition.
Alternate theory: Becky HAS accepted Joyce’s straightness, more or less, but she’s still jealous of Ethan and Dorothy’s relationships with her as boyfriend and “girl-crush,” just as Joyce is jealous of Walky for the time he gets to spend with Dorothy.
She has no idea that the true “girl crush” is Sal. And way out of everyone’s league.
I read the comic assuming it was the “alternate theory” (the “main theory” not even occurring to me; I had to read the comments section to realize that possibility-derp). I’m still hoping the alternate theory is the truth, not least because Willis got me to like Becky an awful lot by this point.
(oh, hai, new gravatar. I thought I’d be Dina until the end of time)
Yeah, but now you’re MARCIE, the best grav of all time!
(thumbs up)
Oh shoot. Now you’re going to have to sign everything. How am I supposed to turn text into sign language so that I can turn it into words I understand?!?!
That’s the warning sign. Soon as you start liking a DoA character, you discover some way they are secretly horrible. I’m assuming at this point that Dorothy’s closet is packed full of ritually sacrificed kittens and puppies.
Dina seems fine though!
Your theory is my favourite thus far. And makes the most sense with Becky’s attitude.
Sweet, I’m Becky now! …Kinda miss being Ruth, though.
I am at the very least on board with your alt theory.
I don’t know how anybody could possibly think Becky was over Joyce. She just got rejected last night. I would usually prescribe a week of staying more or less away from each other, during which Becky would ideally break down the pedestal she put Joyce on and reformulate her expectations of their relationship. Obviously that wasn’t an option here though.
Also, maybe don’t sleep together in the same bed.
Mmm, yes. I suspect Becky’s head currently contains a mixture of both of those motivations. Couldn’t see it before. That is the difference between an experienced writer and an inexperienced one. (Well, one difference.)
That’s a good explanation, and I expect elements of both are true. Becky is jealous of Joyce’s friends (she said as much to Sarah) and she still holds out hope that Joyce miiiiight be in it for the giblets after all.
But there is a much simpler force at work as well – Becky is kinda clueless. As been said a few times these last days, she has no idea how to work a large social group, she has no idea how to behave as an out-and-proud lesbian, she has no idea how to interact with Joyce now when they both have changed into something new, and add on top of that how crazy the last days have been for her and the simple fact that she doesn’t know if she’ll be here tomorrow or if she has been forced on the run.
She’s flailing around and overcompensating and mistaking “rude” for sassy” because she honestly doesn’t know better. Look at Joyce’s first meeting with these people and see how well that went.
I think the two of you (T + Bagge) just nailed it. I’m glad the mystery has been solved. Becky “just” being a jerk didn’t seem very satisfying.
What I can add is that Becky seems to have a personality in common with Walky. Obviously she’s more abrasive, but the two of them started off pretty well on their first meeting. And we *know* Walky is not good at processing & communicating his feelings. It seems obvious Becky is primarily focusing on the joyous aspects of being out & feeling accepted, while suppressing the angst, anger & hurt.
What Becky doesn’t seem to realize is how much she’s contributing to the upsetting of Joyce’s faith-based worldview. She assumed Joyce was as much into girls *and aware of it* as herself. That Joyce still takes the teachings of her church *very serious* is not a thing foremost on Becky’s mind.
I like this thread very much <3
I always look for T’ s contributions AND I very much like what Winter, Bagge, and Thomas have written here also: it all makes sense and makes for a good personality arc–nice “workshoping” folks. Now we’ll see: “(the readerz) proposes, (Willis) disposes.”
… What an appropriate team-up.
Oh dear….
It’s almost like this character has depth and people are jumping on her for being rude without thinking about this from her position. But that would never happen. :p
See, think is, even if T is 100% on all of this, that doesn’t change that she was rude. A understandable reason is not an excuse, it is an understandable reason. You can understand the actions of somebody and not like them anyway.
Rudeness is FINE. I appreciate rudeness more than I do politeness and fake civility. Rudeness is being honest and open. I have enough people in my life pasting fake friendly faces over their own to try and get something from me.
I especially respect, and in many cases require, rudeness from children, who are still learning what their feelings are, and how to express them. Forcing children to conceal their feelings under a mask of politeness can stunt their emotional growth.
In her situation, Becky NEEDS to be rude, and others need to be rude back to her. That’s the only way she’s going to figure any of this out. Billie’s got the right idea.
Yeah, everyone should be like Billie.
Becky could use the cash.
> I appreciate rudeness more than I do politeness and fake civility
I’m old fashioned. I find hurting people when an alternative exists is rarely the best course of action. Sure, it’s not as concise, but my observation is that far more time is spent repairing the wounds created by rudeness than are saved by its terseness.
Of course, the characters here are more or less children, so much should be excused.
Gotta say, it kind of bugs me that Becky must either be over Joyce, or secretly not respecting her boundaries.
I mean it’s been how many days? Of course Becky isn’t over Joyce. You don’t get over crushes that fast. But that doesn’t automatically translate to “is planning to convince Joyce she’s not really straight”. Like, why does “not being over Joyce” have to coincide with “not having accepted that Joyce isn’t interested”?
Good point: not “or but “and”. I’ve had friends who insisted “I’m over him/her” over and over … uh huh, so who are you trying to convince?
Less than one. The whole thing happened last night.
Dorothy starts having doubts about her body image, and begins imitating Shortpacked’s Malaya.
If that happens, I may up and leave this comic. I can’t take the concept of Dorothy becoming Malaya. I WON’T HAVE IT!
I meant her overeating.
I don’t know if that was overeating, or simply the dreaded end of metabolism moment,
Mr K was referring to the arc where Malaya started eating unhealthily because Ultra Car didn’t actually care about Malaya’s outside, just her festering inside. She snapped out of it when Ultra Car pointed out that she (Ultra Car) was functionally immortal while Malaya was not, and UC was going to get as much Malaya as she could get, thank you very much.
NO! NONE OF THAT!! SHAME ON YOU!!!
Dorothy is perfect the way she is.
I was going to make a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde joke, but I don’t know if Malaya has a last name (it’s not in her listing on the Shortpacked cast page) so I stalled at ‘Dr. Keener’.
Um… Dorothy Jekyll and Malaya Hyde? Let’s go with that.
Her last name (at least in Shortpacked) is Eugenio.
And then Yotomoe would have to draw her more.
Mr. K, normally I’d ask you to bite your tongue, but I’m not sure that will be enough. Do you have a stapler you can use instead?
Joyce: “… Acutally Becky”
Ethan: “Joyce, please-”
Joyce: “I’m his beard
Becky thinks that they are each other’s beards.
Can we get some AU fanart where all the main female characters are dwarves and have epic ladybeards?
I’m sure there is a corollary of Rule 34 for making female characters have beards, including epic dwarven ladybeards.
With lady-dwarf axes, the kind that’ll lop off “parts” all lady-like!! 🙂
I was thinking art of Ethan, with a tiny Joyce hanging from his chin.
Okay, you can has an internet.
*Drops “Like” cluster bomb on Wwwhhattt*
Actually.
I’m still finding it very unlikely that Becky would know what a beard even is. Or that Joyce would either for that matter.
That does strike me as a bit odd, but I tend to assume that Willis would know what he’s talking about with the fundie crowd.
I’m sure Becky has had the opportunity to read a few “lesbian 101” sites. If nothing else when she borrowed Joyce’s phone.
Yah. Where is she getting that information?
Satisfying as it would be, and healthy as it would be for Joyce’s and Becky’s relationship, it would mean outing Ethan – and to a person who most likely would be terrible at keeping it secret.
Now if ETHAN would volunteer the information on the other hand…
Judging by the twin glances that Joyce and Ethan exchange, that might not be too likely. But if they go back to pretending to be a thing to fool Becky, with Becky intently watching them, “asking-to-watch” intently, that would make for some farcical hijinksensue. (I’m waiting for the fantasy sequence in which everyone is a different sex & orientation! (For those who recall and those who don’t It’s Walky has an arc in which Walky is transformed into a girl and Joyce into a boy, so Willis can totally do that sort of thing.))
Alternatively, without outing anyone:
“Actually, Becky, we broke up earlier today.”
That would be the smart move
Reread the first four letters of the title of this comic. Not the strip, but the comic itself.
Wait, how did Dorothy figure that out?
Because she’s the Puzzle Queen.
By paying attention to what’s going on around her? It’s really not hard to go from this conversation to figuring it out….
Ah, shit, that’s right, Goldfish Memory.
Well to be fair it has been like 3 weeks for us and a couple of hours or less for the people in the comic.
She is a journalist. Putting the pieces together when people are reticent to spell it out is what she does.
I would say the lunchtime conversation about “my best friend is dating a gay guy and has a best friend who’s lesbian, wait no that doesn’t sound right lemme try again” may have gone a long way towards putting the pieces together.
I think it’s highly possible that Joyce and Ethan’s awkward expressions here made her remember that conversation…
I bet she figured it out a while back, but now she’s just commenting on how much of a horribly awkward situation this is right this moment.
I really don’t think Dorothy would have let that situation stand without talking to Joyce about it.
When are you proposing they got a chance to talk about it? The conversation during lunch was interrupted by Joyce’s mom, then they were in class, and that’s probably 10 minutes or so ago, most of which was spent running, and worrying about a more important looming crisis (or so they thought, anyway).
I was assuming that “a while back” meant earlier than that. She definitely hasn’t had time for the conversation since “I have this friend…”, no.
Totally missed that comic somehow.
So, Dorothy, what gave it away?
“I’ve been checking everyone’s browser history”.
Even Joe’s? *Shudders*
With all the time he spends in various people’s beds (your avatar’s included), does Joe even have time to watch porn?
Joe’s life IS porn.
He’s here to fix your refrigerator.
As he’s also, inexplicably, delivering pizza.
And to unclog your plumbing.
Also, is that a pool out back? Welp, gotta clean that.
He takes pride in providing full service and satisfaction.
He’s the cable guy, and he’s got a really long cable.
And he brought his massage table too, because why the hell not?
And the garden. He’s gotta take care of the garden. Use that extra long hose for something after all.
Joe’s browsing history is probably just whatever websites he needs to access for school. If he’s that lucky. I can imagine him skipping most of his classes to get it on with the girl of the hour.
He looks up pornhub on his phone while walking to and from class and memorizes the videos so he doesn’t have to pay attention.
She’s got functioning eyes and ears, maybe?
I hated Becky before it was cool to hate Becky.
I strongly disliked her from the beginning too.
I love it when people are right for the wrong reasons.
“Sham we am.” – Joyce & Ethan
Would you like green eggs and LIES?!?
Though it comes as no surprise
I would not like greens eggs and lies
Not even with fake cake and pie?
Then again, the cake’s a lie.
But we may need those eggs and lies
When we need to improvise
Don’t improvise with your shampoo
Only the real will ever do
Sham. Poo?
Now I’m trying to build a couplet based on “I do not want them with my beard” that doesn’t need the word ‘queered’ as the rhyme on the second line.
I do not want them with my beard,
for she dumped me, now I’m sheared.
your people are wonderful
‘Well, you’re not as wrong as you thought….’ ‘IXNAY! IXNAY!’ ‘I dunno what’s goin’ on here. Is this some weird sex game you two play?’
I want fun Becky back.
Have you forgotten that Becky is a female version of Walky that doesn’t look like Sal, there will be times you like her and times you don’t
I know, right? 😉 Lately I’ve come to think of DoA as “It’s Becky!” 😀
@ Darwin: I like your gravatar.
Fun Becky was largely a front she was putting on (part of pretending “everything is just as it has always been”, part of flirting with Walky to make Joyce jealous.). Here she shows more of herself, even if she’s not entirely sure who Sassy Becky really is or how she interacts with people.
One of the fundamental parts of Dumbing of Age as I see it is that people are nuanced. That includes Becky.
Can I punch Becky…just one good one, right alongside her head?
We missed the last half of the class. We don’t know if that’s cool or not.
I enjoy the idea that Amazigirl is having this conversation with herself.
Well, she does have a few screws loose…
As typical for one that engages in vigilantism.
…right in the kisser!
Only if you’re an equal opportunity pummeler. So, you’d need to include Mike, Joe, Walky, Joyce, Roz… oh hell, just punch the whole cast and call it good.
Just say things didn’t work out we’re not dating anymore, its not like she’ll ask that many Questions why
Man, Dorothy is crazy smart in this story. I’m not sure I’ve ever known someone who could manage as she has, not just balancing when to tease and when to be serious, and how to defuse situations, but the insight into what’s happening around her.
…and that’s about to suck. _sigh_
I’m not saying Dorothy’s not smart, But Joyce basically gave Dorothy the low down earlier, the only missing piece was that Dorothy didn’t know that Joyce was “dating” Ethan.
It seems like, at this point, we should have come to a drama-free resolution. Joyce tells Becky, “We just broke up, but no, that doesn’t mean I’m interested in girls, sorry.” Joyce tells Dorothy, “Yeah, I was dating a gay guy and trying to turn him straight, but then I realized that was wrong so I broke up with him.” (I realize this involves outing Ethan, but she effectively already did that.) And yet, this is Dumbing of Age, so it cannot possibly be that simple, and it worries me. I’m going to be really, really irritated if Joyce takes back the breakup.
Whoops. That was meant to be a comment to the main thread.
I’m now picturing Willis in a black top hat and cape, playing Bach’s Toccatta and Fugue in D Minor, while saying to himself, “Yesss… gooood… first I made you all love Becky… now I shall make you all despise her. Dance, my pretty marionettes, dance!”
That magnificent image.. Next piece of fan art
Dorothy always puts the pieces together. She is the Puzzle Queen!
…Didn’t you just–a minute ago–
Wow, deja vu.
Am I the only one who’s kind of confused here? Did Dorothy really only JUST figure this out? Joyce revealed the whole Ethan deal to her, like, a week ago (in our time, not the comic’s time), during the gender studies class. Or did Dorothy actually fall for the whole “I have a friend” line? Because I’d like to give Dorothy more credit than that.
If memory serves Didn’t Dorothy suspect Ethan was Gay before he was dating Joyce?
I think she might be just marvelling at how serpentine this is all getting with who thinks what and who’s using who and who shot who in the what-now.
I’m hoping that’s what it is, honestly.
I don’t think Joyce got a chance to make clear what she was tying to say at the time. Maybe now Dorothy is flashing back to that cryptic conversation and realizing what Joyce really meant.
Oh, and I commend Willis for being brave enough to make the girl who just came out of the closet, was kicked out of her school, and ran away from her overstrict parents … A closet Jerk. Instead of taking the easy route and making her likeable.
Agreed! I actually didn’t really start trusting her until she started being a jerk since she came off as so perfect and likable before. Now I embrace Becky as another flawed member of the cast and I’m ready for some character development!
It’s pretty hilarious how many people in the comment section really, REALLY want Becky to Not Be A Jerk, as if she’s some sort of representation of Every Repressed Lesbian Ever.
And then the next the strip and it turns out, nope, she’s an actual person, and that person is a douche, sorry!
Oh, I’m not seeing her as a representation of all repressed lesbians. I just legitimately liked her as a character. THAT’S why I’m let down by the most recent events.
Not so much “jerk” as “super-awkward,” I think. I can’t remember if she was home-schooled or not, but I’ve certainly seen “just blurt out the first thing that comes into your head” encouraged as “Christian honesty.” See Jack Chick (ugh) on “little white lies”— they will still get you damned to hell. Or the cult of Dawkins, where being cruel/ rude is virtuous and kind, has gotten their claws into the newly-escaped… or she may be reveling in FINALLY not having to censor herself 24/7, and not realize there’s a line…
I don’t really have proof formulated for this, but although Dorothy is very clearly intelligent, she has never struck me as particularly intuitive in the way that, say, Sarah is.
Wgile Sarah is more intuitive Dorothy though has heard enough to make an educated guess.
Also Sarah seems to work on relating actions and situations to those from previous experiences.
I think she got sidetracked into trying to figure out if Joyce was coming out to her, and then diverted by the whole “Becky is a lesbian on the run from her asshole father but fortunately no one’s called looking for her, oh wait Joyce’s mom is calling” thing and hasn’t gotten back to, “Wait, what was that Joyce said about ‘her best friend’ dating a gay guy?” until she was reminded just now.
Yeah, that was a really convoluted series of exchanges.
Her Passive-Aggression is on full AoE mode.
She isn’t shooting straight, just smashing at the floor and hoping the waves hit everything. WHAT IS SHE PLANNING?!
If she drives away all of Joyce’s friends she can have Joyce all to herself forever!
Psh, that’s ridiculous. Or…IS IT???
*dramatic music plays*
Is this what you’re looking for?
That’s actually pretty plausible, although it maaaay be subconscious. But so far the only one she’s really shown any –I want to say “campadreship” but I don’t think that’s a word; do I mean “kinship”?–the only one she really gets along well with is Walky, whom Joyce immediately upon his appearance made clear she considers a big poopy stink-head. And there’s that comment she made to Sarah, about how great it must be to get to have Joyce all to herself…
…Uh oh.
Ah, so the plot thickens! And yet at the same time something feels like it’s all falling in place. Some overlying plot that’s just waiting to resurface.
Age of Empires?
Area of Effect
Liking this story arc, as well as the ways Dorothy and Walky are expanding the parts of their personalities we readers see– without even needing the limelight. I don’t think I’ve seen Dorothy being even a little insecure over superficial qualities before.
(I like, btw; as a runner who isn’t actually on the low end of the body fat spectrum, I’ve nonetheless been called bony or anorexic by inactive friends before, and it’s not an easy comment to shut down– not Dot’s situation here exactly, but I like that she gets to deal with that too)
That was something it took little kid me a while to get. Like if a lady is beating the shit out of me and I fight back, am I the bad guy? I just took it as a rule of thumb that I just shouldn’t hit anyone man or woman unless I’m REALLY getting my sit kicked in.
I just decided to hit people only when I was willing to face the consequences. And when they sometimes didn’t happen I got to feel all sneaky.
My personal rule is only in defense of myself or a third party. Applied to both genders equally.
A gentleman does not hit a lady, in any circumstance.
However, just being a woman does not make one a lady.
And I’m certainly no gentleman.
I’m pretty sure anyone who cares about the distinctions between man/gentleman and woman/lady is neither a gentleman nor a lady.
Plus who even knows where non-binary people fit in that idea anyway
A non-binary person can probably be a Lady or a Gentleman in the same vein that I’m sure they can be an Actor or an Actress. At least in my opinion.
Not really, no. If a person is uncomfortable with both he and she, they’re not going to be comfortable with other very gendered terms.
Of course, they could call themselves gentlepersons. Or another mashup I guess?
Yeah or that. Gentleperson sounds pretty accurate.
Um, I’m non-binary (dfab since that seems relevant here) and I prefer ‘gentleman.’ But that’s probably because a lot of my identity is tied up in the time I spent doing ballroom dance in school. And I like ‘gentlelead’ most of all. 😛
“Lady”, yeah, the behavioural etiquette for a “lady” is archaic and extremely problematic, given how many young girls are raised to be “ladylike” over being themselves.
“Gentleman”, however, is a form of social etiquette built around politeness, consideration, honour, and chivalry. These are good things which the men of today- overall and on average- need more of.
…The input of a dude who used to be known online as “that eccentric English gentleman” and was pretty definitely okay with that.
The whole “you’re not a real girl/woman/lady” argument is so tired, honestly. And often sexist. If you’re willing to apply the same logic to men, like Yotomoe did in his reply, then…it might be okay. But it just so often feels iike putting qualifications on personhood.
“The whole “you’re not a real girl/woman/lady” argument is so tired, honestly. And often sexist. If you’re willing to apply the same logic to men, like Yotomoe did in his reply, then…it might be okay…”
Well, actually Pie did apply the real girl/woman/lady argument to men, as he said a gentleman (read real man or respectable man) never does X, where X is striking a lady.
“But it just so often feels iike putting qualifications on personhood.”
As a matter of fact he did not put forth any qualifiers, disqualifiers, or standards on personhood or respectability for women, he actually only did so for men, so by your logic would he not be subjugating men and not women?
Also pardon for assuming that Pie identifies as male.
Look, I didn’t make any accusations towards Pie, did I? I was actually really careful not to. I said it’s “often” sexist and it “often feels like” putting qualifications on personhood. Which is a commentary on how I’ve seen this sort of argument used before in my life. I’ll thank you not to say I said things that I didn’t.
Sorry, I didn’t realize we’d slipped back in time to 1940.
(Seriously this is an awful comment)
It sounds like something Sean Connery might say…
How about, “A person has no business hurting others when there is no greater good to be gained from it (e.g. an emergency tracheotomy, the protection of innocents, or kumite), or the greater good gained from it is strictly personal (since one must recuse one’s self when passing judgement upon others when it mostly benefits one’s self), regardless of gender or lack thereof of both subject and object”?
I’m going to use that line 🙂
There are some guidelines about fighting that really don’t apply until puberty.
After puberty, there are two significant risk factors that kick in at different ages.
– Women of reproductive age have a possibility of being pregnant.
This is why pre-planned fights and sporting events are a really clear exception to the normal rules about violence and women – Women who opt into these events are essentially assuring their opponents that it’s safe to fight them.
Women past reproductive age have fairly high odds of osteoporosis. – People with osteoporosis are risking permanent disability if they get into a fight. They really can’t afford to do it. The bones break easily, and don’t heal well. Falls that would be nothing to a 20 year old can lead to a broken pelvis and a move to a nursing home.
I am totes confused. Is Becky so totally lesbi-centric (is that even a word?) since coming out that she automatically considers any female who does not actively shun her to be a lesbian (or lez-curious) themselves?
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/hindsight/
She’s carrying a torch for Joyce, and I doubt she has much experience with mature relationships. Infatuation does funny things to your head (and by funny I mean hilarious). In that case, she desperately wanted to believe it, so her mind rationalized it into existence. As far as I know she hasn’t applied the same rationalization to anybody else.
It’s been my experience that straight singletons also tend to assume that any member of the opposite gender who hasn’t expressly said ‘no’ is at least a potential partner. And remember that Becky doesn’t actually KNOW these people, except through Joyce, and nobody is wearing any ‘gay/not gay’ labels… so this seems like normal behaviour to me.
The only thing more messed-up than being a teenager is being a teenager who’s trying to deal with the fact that your upbringing tells you that your perfectly normal and utterly uncontrollable sexual drives are WRONG. Caps deliberate; I always felt I could hear that word in capitals when people pronounced, “Being gay is WRONG.”
Becky is aware that Dorothy is in a relationship with Walky and therefore presumably unavailable.
Unless Walky is her beard! BEARDS FOR EVERYONE!
Wait, I though Dorothy knew he was gay… someone was pressuring Joyce to stop dating him, trying to change him. Who was it?
Sarah, kinda. And Amber was pretty pissed but recently backed off after figuring Joyce’s trauma out.
Amber?
Dorothy has suggested that he might be gay, but that was before she actually met him, and she’s never gotten it confirmed.
Holy cow, that was 3 years ago!
It was Sarah.
Sarah told Joyce that at least Dorothy would not stand for it if she ever figured it out.
Ah, it was indeed Sarah I was thinking of. Thank you all.
I don’t get why people are started to hate Becky so much, compared to what the other Characters have said and done to each other is she really that bad.
They have put her on a pedestal and now are surprised when she farts on it.
Which, in truth, may make her one of the greatest villains this strip has had up to this point. We’ll justhave to see if Willis goes that route and actually makes her into a villain, instead of just rude.
Nope “greatest villain ” is still a tossup between Ryan, Blaine, and Ross, though to be honest I think it’s mostly between Ryan and Blaine.
Well, she’s not there yet. But if Becky IS turned into a villain, her progression into that role will be VERY emotionally potent. Blaine was a villain from the start (as were Mary and Raidah, two other potential villains), and Ross is only a villain because of clashing ideology (and, obviously, because he’s a bigoted dick to his own daughter, although, again, that’s simply because of his deeply ingrained beliefs). Ryan DID get some character introduction before he came out as a fully-fledged villain, but not much. But Becky? We KNEW Becky. We LIKED Becky! She’s the first character you see in the DoA universe (if you’re looking left-to-right.)! We felt bad for her. We were witness to major character development with her. We worried about her. We CARED about her! She won the favorite character poll!! Can’t say that for any of the previously mentioned villains of the strip.
If Becky becomes a villain, the betrayal is going to be DEVASTATING. To Joyce AND to the DoA fanbase.
I’d throw Naomi into the mix as well. Ethan’s mom who tells him to fuck Joyce’s brains out (a literal quote), exposing that her entire reason for seeing her son as a dissapointment is because she cares more about whether or not she’ll have grandchildren than her son’s feelings.
Not only a great metaphor, but one Becky would approve of!
I kinda see her doing that, and it’s awesome.
Yeah, you can get a real satisfying clap of a fart sound from up on a pedestal.
Pretty much. If she had been acting this way all along, like Mike, we would probably be more tolerant. Please note that I did not say ‘should be’.
Not that bad, but if Becky continues to let her mouth run wherever it wants to without thought for the feelings of those around her, she might as well apprentice under Mike.
Everyone else acts within the bounds of their established relationships. Mike’s an asshole so nobody really likes him. Mary’s hateful to everyone so she has no friends. Walky’s a dick to Joyce so she dislikes him. Becky’s just spraying rude comments everywhere with no reason or indication she cares she’s hurting people’s feelings.
They gots ta hate someone!
I think it’s a result of Mr. Willis’ exceptional storytelling. The readers are emotionally invested in the story. The mood swings as the story turns. In some strange way, it’s almost a complement to the author to care enough to hate.
Personally I like them all, as much for their negative traits as their positive ones. Willis tells a well rounded story.
Wait, you don’t seriously like evil Ryan, do you?
I like a good villain as a good story element. I like him because it’s very satisfying to see a glass smashed into his face. Same with Blaine, except even more so because all the harm he’s caused amber creates a compelling story.
Not personally, though. As real people they would compel me to disregard my fondness for non-violence. As story elements, they are great.
Ah, that clarifies things.
Of course outside of those two and other unambiguous villains, I consider the rest of the cast to be generally good and likeable people, despite their character flaws. And the fact that they have character flaws makes them all the more charming.
People are commenting a bunch about Becky because the strips are about Becky ¯\_(o_O)_/¯ It’s literally that simple.
No, it really isn’t. Compare the reaction to Joe’s recent behaviour.
Almost nobody called him out on being an asshole to Danny, and the near-universal reaction to him being an objectifying douche in Gender Studies was ‘haha, good thing Joe’s there to break the tension with humour’.
Becky, on the other hand, gets called ‘worst character ever’ for relatively low-grade rudeness.
Because her comments don’t bring comic relief, they just add more tension.
We already know Joe is a jerk, there’s no debate there, therefore no conversation. Who’s going to say he’s not a dick? He’s a dick. Nobody is going to say a person like Mike ISN’T a dick. That’s his thing. That’s their things, they’re dicks, we are rarely asked to be sympathetic towards them. When we accept a person is a Douche, it’s easier to laugh at their shenanigans, because it’s just a punchline that everyone accepts as being Douchey, both in and out of universe.
But here people keep actively defending Becky, so of course there’s going to be more talking, because that’s how it works. One person says something, another person disagrees, a person disagrees with the disagreement, etc.
And the “bony” comment to Dorothy was way beyond low-grade rudeness, it was Joe-level dickery, maybe even beyond his usual fare a little. Except people are defensive about it because Reasons. People do not want to accept that Becky is a Douche the same way we accept that Joe is a Douche. People want to sympathize with Becky because of the unfortunate circumstances that brought her to the college. That’s the situation characters like Joyce is in, hell, in the last strip she was being guilted by the “Not everything is about you” comment so that she now probably feels she’s not entitled to her own feelings.
Personally, I think it’s possible to sympathize with her AND accept she’s a Douche. That’s what I do! The only difference between her rudeness and Joe’s rudeness for me is that hers comes across as less funny, like she’s just being rude for the sake of being rude . I’m not even sure it’s MEANT to be funny. I think we’re supposed to look at this and go, Huh, maybe she IS being a bit of a cock.
BECKY.
NO.
WE WERE JUST MAKING PROGRESS!
Joyce is the one really making progress 🙂
Oh, this will only end in tearful revelations. Where is my damn popcorn?
I’d share mine, but I’m kinda comfy here, sooo…
…machine’s just over there tho…
It’s okay, Joyce. You should be able to enjoy butts without shame.
It’s not like it’s a DISEASE
I don’t know why this particular strip makes everyone hate Becky? Except for being her typical insensitive self, I don’t think what she’s saying here is that bad. She has NO way of knowing the Ethan beard situation. Sure, she’s clearly not over Joyce and that clouds what she’s saying a bit, but it’s not with malicious intent? I don’t know. She has no idea that she just put her finger on the hot button issue. Unlike Dorothy, whose super-sleuth mind has now caught up with what’s happening. There will be a lot of tears and awkwardness coming for everyone involved soon. Which… isnt’ new in this comic, really xD
Oh unless it’s still about the ‘bony’ thing. Yeah, that wasn’t cool, Bex.
Yeah… Was her reaction to finally meeting Dorothy, who Walky and possibly also Joyce (I forget offhand) have mentioned as being very important to Joyce, really just to ignore Dorothy’s proffered hand, make a rude comment about her appearance to Joyce as if Dorothy wasn’t even there, and then laugh and walk away without once actually acknowledging her presence or the introduction?
Wow.
It’s not This Individual Strip, it’s this strip on top of the other ones. Becky’s used up her saved up goodwill for many readers, passed the neutral state and is now just annoying them.
Ok yeah, I can sort of see that. She’s not my favorite character either (even though she’s had some of my favorite lines recently), but I do get her, I relate to what she’s going through on some level, so I have sympathies. But yeah, she’s rude. Maybe she’s gonna calm down or maybe that’s just how she is, I guess we’ll see.
I’m also not sure where you (or others for that matter) are getting the “everyone hates becky” vibe. I’ve really only seen one, maybe two comments out of hundreds on each becky strip where anyone flat out says they hate her.
I’m not defending her or anything, I just noticed a few ‘she’s being a jerk’, ‘I hate her’, ‘can I punch her’ today and I was wondering what it was about this strip in particular. But I can totally see it now, being more an aggregation of the last few weeks that made people react negatively towards her. It was just me seing a few comments on *today*’s strip in particular that struck me as disproportionate. I don’t love her, either, but I don’t hate her and can understand a lot about her, on a personal level, so maybe I notice negative reactions to her more than I do to others. Could be. I don’t know.
Well part of it may be that hurt people sometimes lash out at whomever is there. Becky has been kicked out of college, had to run away from home for her own safety, and been rejected by her long term crush and best friend. Some of those are wounds that will take a long time to heal.
At least that is the impression I get.
I’m in the minority here, but I haven’t liked Becky since we met her. She rubbed me the wrong way from the get-go. She’s so abrasive and she doesn’t know when to politely shut up. I get that it’s just her feeling “free” but my god, girl.
No, you don’t understand…she has 18 years of repression to get out of her system. so she can act however she wants and no one can dare say she is in the wrong!
Becky is perfect!!!
Stop making excuses Daisy, we know you just want in her pants.
To be fair, that’s how kids/teens sometimes act when they’re suddenly no longer under their parent’s thumb-or even how adults act when interacting anonymously with strangers. It’s kind of a natural reaction to being unrestrained.
That said, I’m not sure I’ve even seen enough of Becky’s character to pass judgement yet.
son of a basketweaver
OH COME ON
Clearly what’s happened here is that I’ve rolled a 1 and a 2. On whatever sided die is necessary to represent the number of gravatars. 72, maybe? Barely dice at that point, more like a marble.
http://www.awesomedice.com/image/cache/data/d100-red-500×500.jpg
Did you use the same email for both tries? Because the grav picked is tied to the email, not the name.
No, I just only have two emails I’m willing to throw into the ring. I followed up a Mary (crit fail) with a Danny.
Sweet.
When I was younger, we’d just roll 2D10 and use one for the 10’s and the other for the ones. Or maybe it was 2D20; I don’t remember now. Get off my lawn!
I like pie.
That’s how anyone who wants to get an actual result and not spend the night trying to dig the golfball out from under the couch after it rolled all the way across the table without even slowing down does it.
Oh dude, that’s nice!
Technically, that die can’t be unbiased — the faces can’t all be the same size and the dihedral angles (between faces) aren’t constant, so some kinds of outcomes must be more likely than others. That’s why the original dice were the convex regular polyhedra; they, and they alone, are convex and have isomorphic faces and constant dihedral angles. (I don’t even know how I’d read a die made in the form of a great stellated dodecahedron, even though it would have more than 20 sides.)
#forrealz
Well, you can do spindle (like the d10, two n/2-tagonal pyramids stuck together at their bases) or barrel (n-tagonal prism with rounded or pyramidal ends) dice, too. Barrel dice particularly let you do fair odd-sided dice, though you have to read the edges rather than the faces.
I’ve seen a d7 that was a pentagonal prism. They swore it was tuned so that the different face sizes and different dihedral angles canceled out and it was fair, but I’m not sure I believed them.
You run into the same problem with any method I’ve seen of making a die with more than about 20 faces, though. (And even the regular icosahedron d20 is marginal.) They roll forever.
Then you have seen the d100. https://www.thediceshoponline.com/images/productimages/1008_1_big.jpg
why?
why would something like that need to exist?
I dunno, but I still have mine.
HI, VINCE SHLOMI HERE FOR THE SHAMWOW!
AAAAAAHHHHH INFOMERCIALS!! they’re everywhere!! Why did you Humans INVENT THEM?!?!?
Same reason most of our evil exists: money mongering.
This coming week should be an interesting one.
nd everything will come crashing down in 3…2…1…
And*
Starting with the first word in your sentence apparently.
I have never seen or heard the term beard before today and I didn’t get why everyone was surprised until I looked it up. I was raised in a less conservative household than Joyce or Becky, how did they know it??
Aww I was expecting Sarah again. I wonder if I can change it by switching my email or something
Yep.
Yup.
Yes!
That’s what I use, Google let’s me use spam trap versions of my real e-mail addy that read as my real addy when authenticating programs but unless I set a filter on incoming messages with the addy they get sent straight to spam. That’s how I set up the program for my bicycle to answer relationship questions for a “dear Abby” style column for people not getting along with their bicycles and vice-versa.
And most of the “questions” were from bicycles complaining about a lack of maintenance.
How do you do the one email has many trick? I saw someone do it earlier, but I didn’t think it would be that useful then. Like Google recognizes it as one, but everywhere else recognizes it as different, I think…
I’m not particularly surprised Becky knows, since she actually seems like she wasn’t living in as large of a social void. That *Joyce* knows the word, however, is surprising.
She knows what shipping is, it’s not that much of a stretch.
More specifically, I meant “beard.” That Joyce knows what shipping is doesn’t surprise me much.
Joyce is basically the ultimate shipper. If she met an asexual, she’d probably just try to pair them with another ace.
It’s a pretty common term….but it wouldn’t surprise me to meet ultra-conservatives who are familiar with the ways gay people hide themselves, if you know what I mean. The more passionate you are about an issue — positive or negative — the more you’re likely to learn about it.
In my experience, social conservatives — particularly extreme ones — are actually stunningly ignorant about sexuality and sex in general. Rejecting conception from rape? Homosexuality related to pederasty? Need for a pair of differently-gendered cis parents? Hell, the notion of “[A] Gay Agenda?”
What’s a Gay Agenda? Is it an Outlook Calendar for Queer Folk?
I know poly folks prefer Google calendar…
I’m actually kinda happy I wasn’t the only one that was clueless til I looked it up as well.
Ditto! Still feel clueless, but now I have company.
Becky maybe has done some reading recently?
It all comes tumbling down, tumbling down, tumbling down…
it all returns to nothing, I just keep letting me down, letting me down,
letting me down
That Dorothy face. Yes, Dorothy, I totally agree.
Title of the comic will no longer be Dumbing of Age, but Aw Jeez Joyce.
That comment + that grav = hilarious.
Although Dammit Willis! is a close second.
Ladies and Gentlemen, gaze in wonderment upon Becky, the Human Emotional Grenade!
Works as a team with Mike, the Metaphorical Crotch Kick and Billie, the Drama Hurricane.
And if he’s having a field day, it isn’t so metaphorical.
This is perfect, TrueVCU and Rycan. And also makes me want to see real extracurriculars (intramural sports? clubs? hall government?) other than journalism to give more characters that don’t often interact a good reason to. Though (1) superheroing kind of IS an extracurricular in this universe and (2) my wish doesn’t necessarily apply to the specific characters that spurred this train of thought since they have roommate/suitemate/friends-of-friend relationships that can cause them to interact anyway.
Hey, Other Rachel!
OK I have to see what all my alt avatars are now.
I think this one is Agatha, right?
I have no idea who this is going to be as I don’t recall using this alt since the shuffle, but it used to be Billie.
I’m gonna piggyback of this to see who my frav has changed to
Just piggybacking as well.
I had Sarah before and she’s one of my favourite characters. Don’t know who could compare with her!
All right, Carla would about do it 😀
Man, I am so not enthused about being Mary now. That’s the worst grav to have, everything I say will now sound devious and judgemental and mean. I never thought I’d ever want Danny back xD
/end of obligatory gravatar comment
(Responds to you, but doesn’t sound like anything. Instead, all you’re left with is mental images of various hand gestures)
Yeah… I might have to trade Ruthless in to get Jason back.
His expression went so much better with like 98% of my comments. 😉
All I can say is you’re not the only one.
Closer to the truth than you might think there Becky!
first post in awhile and this is the gravitar I get…who the heck is that?
I wanna say it’s one of Sarah’s snotball former friends, but I don’t know for sure.
That’s right, it’s Raidah.
I much preferred my previous Ethan one…oh well.
You may be right about who this is.
Jason totally is.
It’s Raidah! I’M SO JEALOUS! I love her.
I got….this douchebag. Haha.
OK the previous one was Joyce, which I think is what this one used to be.
You know, this talk of new gravatars had made me intensely curious. Wonder what I got!
And I got Roz. I am very glad that this is not my main Gravatar. I’ll stick with Jervis Tetch, thank you very MUCH!
I am super confused right now.
Your gravatar is pegged to the email you use.
Switch emails, and you switch gravatars!
If you don’t have a gravatar specified for that email address, the system will assign you one at random for this site. The random selection is re-shuffled each time the gravar pool is updated, so sometimes after it happens, a whole bunch of “who is my gravatar now” posts show up.
I’m just going to take advantage of your thread to find out for myself.
You can’t spell SHAME without SHAM, and now Joyce is gonna get a double dose.
And then things will be a shambles.
Sham-pain for everyone!
** claps**
“Would you prefer shamrocks or real rocks?”
“Well, would you prefer shampoo or real poo?”
The fact that so many of us are annoyed at Becky and so many of us agree with Walky shows that Mr. Willis is an awesome storyteller. You actually start caring about the characters. I love this comic. 🙂 😀
Yea.. and just think! Like us, Walky was initially such a big Becky fan..
Man, I’m really starting to see what Joyce meant when she said at the beginning of the comic that she was the most socially well-adjusted of her homeschooling group.
One thing about Becky’s hair that has bothered me thanks to Bed Logic, how did the top front of Becky’s hair become so long??
Well she had chin length hair before, now its just combed forward instead of to the sides
Aw yeaa, I got the Joyce gravitar ^.^
It’s just that her old hairstyle just didn’t seem that long as I was sure it was a pixie-cut.
Ok, I would probably just lie about this one.
I still love Becky. She’s the loud mouthed, no filters system shock this messed up dynamic between Joyce and Ethan (and Dorothy, since Joyce was hiding it from her) needed.
No she’s not, Joyce already broke it off, Becky’s imput is 100% unnecessery
Becky’s just not into that whole “listening to other people” thing. Could be her fundy upbringing – often they are the people who most like to talk and least like to listen. And Joyce isn’t really assertive enough to deal with it effectively.
I get the feeling her emotional age is something like 13-14 not helped by her upbringing of course but to me shes just acting like a spoiled little brat
Yeah, seriously. You know how fundies like Walky don’t listen to other people’s discomfort. Or, conversely, how really secular folks like Joyce are super-good at being sensitive to other people’s discomfort and work hard to understand them.
You know how it is: fundamentalists are self-centered and cruel, while secularists are other-centered and kind.
Well, that whole “Billie’s depressed therefore SHE NEEDS MORE GOD IN HER LIFE” thing was really dickish at leasy
It was indeed. Joyce isn’t perfect — but she’s a Hell of a lot kinder than Walky, who’s a jerk that can occasionally respond appropriately to unkindess (see panel 2, today.) Sierra is religious according to Word of Willis, yet she’s not insensitive. Mary is a religious hypocrite, and Mike is a secular bully and serial abuser. Dorothy, an atheist, is a genuinely kind and considerate young woman.
Willis hasn’t built a tie between religiosity and kindness — which is a good thing, as there isn’t one in real world, either.
I didn’t make one, either. My point was about fundamentalism and listening. Point proved?
Except she thought that would help. She was trying to be kind.
The fact that Joyce broke it off with Ethan *because* of Becky coming out to her and making her realize what she was doing was wrong apparently didn’t register…?
That didn’t really have anything to do with Becky herself, any non-self-loathing homosexual would have had the same effect. The sham only lasted as long as it did because Ethan was feeding into her preconceived notions of homosexuality, what it meant and how it could be ‘fixed’.
But it’s literally the point of the chapter? You know, “three’s a crowd”? It wouldn’t have happened without a third variable, which is in this case is Becky, putting things into a different perspective for Joyce and triggering a change.
You may not like Becky as a character but come on, you can’t deny her being an integral part of the storyline…
And no, it couldn’t have been any other homosexual character. It needed to be somebody that Joyce loves enough to voluntarily override her programming for. And Becky is it.
Joyce always chooses love over hate, she was only being Ethan’s beard because she thought she was helping him. She still would have had the same values, still would have been in the class when Leslie explained exactly how LGTBQ kids get treated by religious families and likely would have still been told off by Roz.
No, I don’t think so. There are plenty of non-self-loathing lesbians in Joyce’s life right now. There’s the couple down the hall. There’s Billie. (She doesn’t know about Ruth yet — but, then again, neither did Ruth!) There’s Leslie.
And those are just the ones we know about. We don’t know if she’s met Daisy. I’d be shocked if she hadn’t met some non-self-loathing gay men — I certainly did when I was there!
No, I think Becky was special to her.
By ‘no I don’t think so’, I didn’t mean that she doesn’t always choose love over hate. She does, at least when she understands what that means.
Joyce is good people. I would find her infuriating in person, but she’s still good people.
She doesn’t speak to Grance and Mandy, she’s just vaguely aware they exist, she didn’t know Leslie was a lesbian until this very day’s class, and she doesn’t understand bisexuality and thinks Billie made a few mistakes before coming back to the boys. She’s ignorant, not hateful.
I knew Becky was trouble since the beginning. As soon as she came to visit her. I knew it.
And she is presently
– Changing completly her personality to be one of a homosexual girl with a huge mouth.
– Creating chaos in the campus.
– Making everyone, including reader, uncomfortable.
I just hope someone will tell her to stop at once. And that she understand it.
– You’re assuming that the Becky we saw at first was the “real” Becky. It seems to me that Becky hasn’t changed but rather feels free to act more like how she wants to act and how she wants to act emulates what she knows lesbians “do”. It’s a common thing for a lot of people coming out of a closet to assume they have to act in a certain way. She’ll grow out of it. Some parts of it. (Also, have people forgotten that she enjoyed getting on Joyce’s nerves before coming out?)
– “Chaos” might be a bit of hyperbole. She’s at most inconveniencing a few people.
– I’m more uncomfortable by people hating on Becky for not being perfect than by Becky, tbh.
–
Becky’s shedding her heteronormative facade to embrace the person she really is inside, and this is somehow a bad thing because apparently the fake not-lesbian version of Becky was somehow superior
It’s a little bit like how depressed comedians can’t tell anyone they’re depressed, because dropping the funny facade tends to get a “hey, we liked the fake funny version of you better” reaction
Well, real Becky has been sexually harassing Joyce despite promising not to just a few hours earlier and then laughing about how uncomfortable it’s making her. That’s not going to get anyone on her side. Neither is rudely insulting Joyce’s other friends.
The sad fact is that right now fake closeted Becky was nicer and more likable to people than she currently is. Because current Becky is being a dick.
Becky’s harassment of Joyce makes me think of another character… Joe. Joe tried to seduce Joyce (as well as Sarah), but after being rejected he has backs off. Ironic that somehow in this that Joe actually becomes the one who sets the GOOD moral example.
Like Becky herself said, it’s not all about Joyce. Becky does need to learn that what she’s doing is wrong but she’s also obviously not over being attracted to Joyce (and probably won’t be for a while). Joyce and Becky need to find a balance and considering how their relationship has changed in just a few days, that might take a while (more than a day, that’s for sure).
Joyce herself at first seemed more intent in telling herself that God would approve of what she’s doing and not in telling Becky that she supports her. Even now when Joyce was seemingly ready to accept her she’s put off by Becky’s decision to change her appearance (remember the “too much Becky” phrase?). I find that to be more dickish than allowing yourself to be more “you” and hoping your best friend will be ok with it.
Also, Joe hasn’t had a crush on Joyce or Sarah for years on which he hasn’t acted upon because he feels it would be morally wrong to do so, so that’s not a good example.
It’s not all about Becky, either.
No, but Becky needs to put Becky first.
Currently Reacting To Hyperstress Situation Becky is not real Becky.
Real Becky is likely to emerge when she’s had time to get used to being out and feel out who she actually likes being. Everything you’re seeing in the roughly 24 hours since she arrived is reaction to a trauma that was also the end of a lifetime’s being trapped.
Hmm, a very good read on the situation. Becky’s dropping her guard, and this threatens to push away the very people whose help she so desperately needs?
Mistyped email. Dumb.
Now that makes absolutely no sense once ripped out of context 😐
Yay I’m not the only one who’s done that.
I hope Becky’s natural obnoxious cheer is just part of her innate personality, because rereading that article made me wonder if it’s another layer to her facade– to laugh so she doesn’t cry.
Becky was always like this.
Just because you’re uncomfortable doesn’t mean the reader base as a whole is.
If Becky makes you uncomfortable, maybe you need to think about that for a bit.
I don’t quite get your point here.
Of course she’s jealous of Ethan and Dorothy — she thought she wanted Joyce! Is that what you think people shouldn’t be uncomfortable with? If so, then I agree.
I’m uncomfortable with her constant belittling of other people — not just Joyce (“Stay there while you reboot?” Seriously?) but also Dorothy (knowingly) and Ethan (out of ignorance.) I’d think that would be a reasonable thing to be uncomfortable about.
I am also extremely uncomfortable about characters who are condescending, rude, or sexually inappropriate towards Joyce, make fun of Dorothy to her face, or who boldly and publicly express their sexual identity.
Which is why Walky, Mike, Joe, Amber, Danny, Sal, Sarah, Dina, Leslie, Roz, Robin, Jacob, Dorothy, Billie, and Ruth all make me very uncomfortable.
I’m going to go ahead and assume that every reader feels exactly the same way.
When did Dina make fun of Dorothy or make inappropriate comments to Joyce? In fact, what about Dina makes you uncomfortable?
I think MGTen may have been making fun of someone, perhaps…
I just realized that given what Joyce has done in the Walkyverse having a fake boyfriend is not a new thing for her at all. I can’t believe it took me this long to make that connection – I guess just because there’s a wildly different context in this universe.
If I had to choose the backing music to this it’d probably be this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD3VsesSBsw
is it bad if i read “non-sham” and thought of the shamwow advert
The amount of dialogue going on in panel 2 confused me a bit. But the comments helped me out. 🙂
Becky is being an accidental Mike. Saying all the right things to make people feel bad about themselves.
It seems like Becky was introduced not too long ago (it’s only been a few days in canon) and right from the start everyone was “oh wow, Becky is the best, I love her, I voted for my favorite in the poll too early!” and now it’s all “wow Becky is the actual worst, I hated her before it was cool, she’s literally Satan” etc. Like, she’s just a kid who had to put up a brave front for everyone, hiding who she really was, and now that she can own up to her true self all the ugly shit she was too nice to say is coming tumbling out.
I’m not saying it’s right, I’m saying it’s understandable. And honestly, I still like her, I’m not that fickle. So she’s said some jerkish stuff. So has literally everyone else in this comic.
Well, Joyce probably thinks Dina will burn and suffer in Hell for eternity due to religion, and Joyce is still probably okay for people to like
“Becky is being kind of a jerk to people” feels like a very mild offense in comparison
Becky ALSO believes that about Dina.
Yes, and “being kind of a jerk to people” is the thing they hate Becky for, NOT “believes Dina will go to Hell”
Priorities!
… What makes you people think I’d want to go to Heaven if only people like Joyce, Becky, Mary, and their parents will be there? I mean, I suppose I could love it if, say, Willis (arguably older version of Joyce, but there’s a huge difference0 was there, but still.
You really think MARY is going to heaven? There’s s difference between who believes they’re going and who would actually get in.
But you didn’t dispute anyone else.
I’ve been warned by church elders that this is exactly why Satan fell— saying, “Hey, this doesn’t seem fair! I don’t want to be part of a system that sets good people on fire and calls it benevolent!” I suspect influence by some pop-culture depiction of Satan— “non-denominational” and “divinely-inspired” meaning in this case “Do you know how expensive a Doctor of Divinity is these days? And they don’t accept ‘divine revelation from a dream’ as source material, those scoundrels!” Nevertheless, if you look at them, an awful lot of the parables of Jesus run along the theme of, “Sounds unfair? He’s God, you’re not, get over yourself!”— but more in the direction of being nice to the “undeserving”— people getting paid no matter how long the vineyard shift was, Samaritans not being *ssh*l*s even though they were that period’s equivalent of Nazis, etc.
ONE day i canon.
Am I still Joe?
Well that’s disappointing…
Could be worse. I’m getting a big chalkboard so I can write “I will not take my gravatar personally,” on it about five hundred times.
This will gonna be fun to explain.
*gets popcorn*
As John Scalzi points out, “The failure mode of ‘clever’ is ‘asshole’.”
The real question is, will Dorothy be able to piece together WHY Joyce starting dating Ethan, rather than assume that it’s because she really, really wants a boyfriend?
And if Dorothy doesn’t figure it out on her own, would Amazi-girl actually step in and explain things to her.
I hope she has the patience to hear Joyce out instead of jumping to conclusions.
Ok then.
Jeez. Catching up on the last week now, and Becky’s likability is taking a dive. Its one thing to be free-spirited, but shes also being tactless and inconsiderate.
There was no excuse for what she said to Dorothy, especially on a first meeting. Thankfully Dorothy’s a fairly confident individual- but saying the same thing to an insecure person can be devastating. (Speaking as someone who was a deeply-insecure teen.)
Dottie has figured it out, alright.
Don’t go there, Walky. Most girls you know can kick your ass, jerks or not. Stick to snark.
Oh, awesome support of Dorothy by the way. You said just the right thing to diffuse the situation and diminish insult without doing a big thing of it.
Yeah I really liked that too! He took Dorothy’s defense without making a scene and making Joyce’s situation worse. He’s learning!
This has become undumbing of age for many characters.
That – right there – is the main appeal with the comic for me. People learning by their mistakes and helping each other getting better than they were before.
Yeah, that kinda sums it all up Dorothy. Jeez indeed.
The Becky Train is just plowing through all the drama.
I KNEW IT!!!!!
Wait Dorothy didn’t know what she was talking about when Joyce awkwardly confessed all this stuff out during lunch? She’s kinda slow on the uptake.
Remember though, Joyce’s confession was interrupted by Walky sitting down (and the subsequent discussion of Becky’s situation). Having the issue of a homeless Lesbian to contemplate might have kept her from piecing things together.
I would love to see Mike come in and just a-hole her into the ground.
I think a lot of the reason people are getting annoyed with Becky is that, while coming out is always a hugely emotional moment and even moreso for Becky who has lost her education and her family, eventually you get off the high and start mellowing out. And while all of this has occurred over the span of just two days, we’ve also been reading Becky’s story for months, and there’s really no chance of her cutting it out anytime soon. I’m okay with Becky being really open and proud, because it’s a completely realistic depiction of coming out for the first time and because I think it’s great to have an LGBT character in the comic who is completely accepting and proud of their sexuality, but I’m already getting tired of her ribbing on Joyce.
I don’t know, I’d like to believe most of the people here complaining about he aren’t doing it because she’s being “too gay” but more because she’s being an obnoxious loudmouth with no concept of personal boundaries. Being gay, or bi, or trans isn’t a personality trait. It’s who you are. I should know.
Once that high ends Becky’s going to crash really hard. Losing her family, her education, having no place to call her own, no money, discovering that IU and the secular world-at-large isn’t actually a mecca of LGBT tolerance, it’s all going to hit her in short order and it will hit very hard. I suspect Ruth will be somehow involved. Probably booting her in the head, it seems a Canuck thing to do.
She’s Canadian. She’d probably prefer to body-check her into the boards.
But since she’s a Leaf’s fan, she’ll probably miss.
I know — only one of the Leafs could miss the boards when trying to body check someone.
It occurred to me that my post seems to be arguing that Becky’s being really openly gay was her main problem right now. So I’d like to amend that by saying that my issue with Becky is that she’s being really obnoxious and rude, as a consequence of her coming out and the subsequent drama bombs. I’d like it if she’d stop ribbing on Joyce, but I’m glad she’s being open.
Okay for god’s sake I suck at this.
Becky’s unintentionally being a jerk because she has a really bad brain to mouth filter and she’s really ecstatic that she’s come out and so she’s just saying everything that comes to mind without thinking about it.
I need to stop posting forever.
Modern Family has ruined “Aw, Jeez” for me. I keep hearing it as Jay whenever I read it.
So on an unrelated note to the Becky drama, I’m kind of wigged out by Joyce taking pictures of Ethan’s butt without his knowing. It goes beyond wacky repressed fundie girl and makes me think of her as kind of a creeper.
Is that a normal thing to do?
Well she sometimes does snap and draw a million dongs.
She just said above it was just a pic of her friend from behind.
Why did Becky become a bongo all of the sudden?
Because she couldn’t become a snare drum
It’s fun to see attempts at humorous ribbing go terribly, horribly wrong. Sitcom characters always seem to be able to pull it off, and it’s funny, but I can’t relate to those magically funny people in their consequenceless world. I prefer Becky screwing up and having to deal with the fall out, like an average person trying to play comedian.
Will she deal with the fallout though? She seems more like a tornado — sweep in, trash the place, and then leave the cleanup to the people who lived there in the first place.
Drama Hurricane vs. Ribbing Tornado. Round 1, FIGHT!
Joyce and Ethan’s expressions in the third panel are pure gold. And I really do hope that Joyce can see Dorothy again soon to tell her that she broke up with Ethan.
Becky sure turn into a real passive aggressive bongo after she’s been apologized to.
I find it slightly odd and uncomfortable that more people reading this particular comic are piling on Becky for… what? Last comic’s actions? Than are even mentioning Walky’s little “ooh, is there an excuse to hit a girl” evolution of unwanted chivalry into excuses for violence.
I mean, Becky has no idea that Joyce and Ethan or beard issues are a sore spot (because Joyce has not told her) and is making a self-deprecating joke about herself and supporting Joyce in her own way (which is a huge growth character-wise given how much she was in love with Joyce). In fact, shitting on Joyce’s best friend in college that Walky said Joyce is in lesbians with (gosh no ideas how she could be threatened/jealous of that) is pretty much the only super negative point of this little bit.
I mean, looking at her actions, she has supported what has to be a really painful relationship and in her “all smiles Becky” persona trying to support Joyce’s sexuality and relationships and even shut down Joyce’s guilt train hard, smoothing over an earlier point of conflict and making it Becky’s thing instead of Joyce’s and turning it into a joke, which if you’ll notice here has completely distracted her from the self-abusive spiral Joyce was getting on from her triggers and the emotionally intense class.
In fact, I think this is what Becky sees as her “job” as friend is. To lighten up the mood and distract where she can, which is why in public she puts on the persona of light-hearted, rude and crude Becky, the clown and only breaks down when she literally can’t handle all the emotions she’s burying coming back up at once.
And unlike Joe who does the same thing, Becky at least is willing to be self-deprecating when it’s important to be, instead of constantly dumping it on the people who make her feel things.
But I suppose it’s unsurprising that a crude (Walky), horny (Joe) character who can be an asshole at times (Mike) would rub more people the wrong way and be given less slack when they are of a gender that has douchiness often interpreted as b-wordiness.
That’s a good reading of Becky. She’s obviously the clown of her group and now she throws herself into that persona full stop.
We must not forget just how much of Joyce’s crap she doesn’t know about. She doesn’t know about the assault, she doesn’t know about Ethan being gay, she doesn’t know about the fight with her parents about Dorothy, she doesn’t know how hard Joyce feels it is fitting in, she doesn’t know about Roz outburst at her today. I think that in Becky’s mind Joyce is still the cute & clueless thing we saw in the beginning of the comic (if a tad more open to things like best friends being lesbians).
I still believe we will get a scene down the line when Joyce finally manages to tell her everything that’s going on and Becky will be all like “Joyce…. all this time you try support me – now let me help YOU).
It think it’s mostly because of unfortunate timing. She’s said before that she enjoys making Joyce uncomfortable, which was probably something Joyce never minded before they separated to go to college, but now is something she does whenever her friend is going through an emotional situation that, granted Becky has no way of knowing about, but we readers have been recently reminded of which affects our perception of her and the page we’re commenting on.
If Joyce only a page earlier made a visible effort to improve herself or had illusionary Ryans walking around and then gets treated like she’s being kinda selfish, we react because we still have that page fresh in our memory and more easily forget that Becky has no way of knowing about either situation until anyone in comic informs her about it.
I like your read of the sitch. (Also, someone might want to point out to walky that he hasn’t ever been punched for any of his jackass comments.)
The hypocrisy is strong with the Walky.
Well there was that one time Joyce grabbed him by the collar and screamed in his face until he got back together with Dorothy.
He also called Joyce “crazy brainwashed” and Dorothy smacked him upside the head.
They were both just cartoonish slapstick that we weren’t meant to view as actual, physical abuse, but they happened.
Cartoonish violence is sometimes lost on webcomic readers. Just look at the people over at the QC forums who still hate Faye because she used to punch people in the arm 10 years ago. =P
But hey, maybe we were supposed to believe that she literally threw Angus across the room that one time. 😉
I like it. I can be a Becky when I’m with friends, too– though I don’t casually insult other people, beyond light ribbing followed by a compliment, just because you never know.
I think it´s more because she´s new. People are used to Mike´s, Joe´s and Walky´s behavior for years now and they have their established fanbase like Joyce and Ethan. She´s new and rude. People who don´t like Mike´s and Joe´s behavior complain less because they are used to it and after a while it´s business as usual.
Oh and at the moment Becky is more or less completely dependant on Joyce who can get into major trouble for this whole affair and it seems that Joyce is spending a lot more effort adjusting her world views, giving her a place to sleep and food and Becky spends the only money she has on a hair cut.
I don’t think Becky will take that very well.
“That”?
The Joyce reboot doesn’t seem to be done yet
I wonder if the Seinfeld episode Becky caught was “The Beard” — that would explain a little.
I wonder if she didn’t watch multiple episodes of Seinfeld. She’s behaving a bit like a Seinfeld character.
So checking out some of the reactions on Willis’ tumblr, does anyone here think that the criticism Becky has been getting the last few strips comes from being loudly, openly gay or just from her actions, and if we’re being unfairly critical towards Becky for stuff other cast members have done?
Personally, I’m kind of annoyed with Becky’s latest appearance, but I never considered others criticisms to be stemming from any kind of bigotry.
To clarify: I meant Becky’s showing in the last few strips, not her hair. It’s totes adorable.
I have absolutely no problem with Becky being loudly, openly gay. I still don’t like her, though, because she’s got very little tact, has been to my eyes rather manipulative and is currently coming across as a bit too self-centered for my liking. She’s also just been downright rude to Dorothy, and for absolutely no reason at that. Dorothy has barely exchanged two words with her and done absolutely nothing but try to be there for Joyce. Result: she gets insulted to her face. Not cool, Becky.
I guess I’d find her less annoying if she came across as less fundamentally inconsiderate and seemed to have some idea how her presence and her actions were effecting everyone else around her, but she really doesn’t seem inclined to do that right now. Becky thinking primarily of herself and her problems is understandable given her situation, but it being understandable doesn’t mean it’s okay.
I really doubt it. Most people with any bigotry towards homosexuals wouldn’t last one chapter through Willis’ comic before dismissing it as nazi-communist gay agenda propaganda before burning the computer and dousing the flames with holy water to purge the sin they’ve witnessed from their house.
In my experience, the worst comments towards Becky are made because she insults someone that only a page or two earlier got a lot of sympathy from the readers for some reason or another.
Affect, Iaila. Affect.
THE GRAMMAR OF GALASSO WILL REIGN SUPREME!
I think you need to just go ahead and make this your permanent avatar.
… I may have just met a young, male Joyce!
I must say, I liked becky a LOT more before she was fuckin rude as hell to dorothy. Also not sure about that haircut, but I guess I just don’t like that haircut in general.
Also kind of feels like she just got it so she’d look like a lesbian, which would really make sense as a thing she’d do imo.
When Becky and Walky met the first time, I was laughing so hard I was crying. I adored her. And I do like her new cut, as it’s my current style too. But…jeez.
Every time she opens her mouth it’s like, where did the likeable Becky go? Pls to bring her back.
Guys, she’s homeless and angry and scared. She’s been told all her life that no-one will love her and the Big Guy in the Sky will set her on fire if she is honest about who she is. The love of her life turned her down flat not twenty hours ago, claiming she’s not into girls, and she sees the subject of her rejection looking VERY like she has a mad pash on another girl— and makes a snide comment at her. Maybe it’s not excusable, but it is understandable.
We understand all that. Yeah, horrible situation, life changing events, etc. Whatever. It’s not excusable. So stop excusing it by laying out every bad thing that’s happening to her. We know. We’ve seen it. We understand some of why she might be acting like a jerk. That doesn’t make it ok, or even tolerable.
I think its even forgivable if she apologizes! She’s had a REALLY rough week, and she probably both needs people and can’t handle being around people. Its a hard place to be. 🙁
Its just … really upsetting how dismissive Becky is of Dorothy (in addition to body policing! We know that Dorothy is pretty self confident, but does Becky?). But, these strips are coming at 1 day per few seconds of interaction. Maybe she’s going to apologize for the joke soon? Or say hi to Dorothy soon?
I hope ‘Jeez Joyce’ becomes the new ‘Dammit Danny’
I don’t think I could like Becky any less and then she opens her mouth again. I’ve been around people like this and they are the worst form of obnoxious
Becky is a bit annoying but maybe she will chill out later on in the comic. I am also loving this portion of the comic. Joyce makes the best faces lol
also who is my gravatar? i can’t place the face.
Becky, please, stop talking.
I really hope someone smacks some sense into Becky soon. She’s being worse then Mike. At least Mike doesn’t profess to care about people. Everyone knows that Mike is a jerk who shouldn’t be paid any attention to. But Becky knows better. Becky is (hopefully) not a sociopath. Becky should stop purposely being a huge jerk to those who care for her and have tried to help her. Mike doesn’t expect people to treat him well, or care about him, or help him out. Becky does. She somehow thinks it’s ok to be a jerk and yet no one should treat her badly. Someone needs to kick her. Maybe we can get Mike in here to give her a taste of her own medicine.
Oh man the look Joyce and Ethan have there.