What would be the male equivalent of this, I wonder? My buddy is depressed his coming out to his family went badly, so I –his straight friend– console him by rubbing his face in my junk?
Girls are lucky; they get WAY more plausible deniability!
The difference is, Ethan wants to be “fixed” (at least in DoA), while Becky isn’t. There was no harm in Joyce trying to fix Ethan. That said, since it isn’t something you can fix, she is trying in vain.
I usually ship Joyce+Dorothy, but I’ll accept to sail on bor of the Joyce+Becky too.
Well, as long as he can say “No thanks, that’s enough” to Joyce, they can try all the fixing they want, and it’s all good. (presumably the “fixing” would involve premarital hanky-panky, in the name of the greater good)
The problem thing with “fixing” gay people is 1. When you are forcing someone, 2. It doesn’t actually work.
If Joyce doesn’t figure out how cruel “fixing” Ether would be all by herself, then I think the Becky will be extremely happy to fix her on that score. I’m pretty sure that Becky would take the chance to make clear to Ethan’s parents what can happen to parents who continue to insist on “fixing” their gay children. I also think that Becky, being Becky, will (a) recognize Ethan as gay, and (b) have some words with him about coming out and staying out.
I wouldn’t say there’s NO harm, but Ethan’s active participation makes it a very different situation. That and, she’s his peer with no abilities to discipline him or leave him homeless if he doesn’t want to be ‘fixed’ or fails at it.
I think Joyce also sticks with Ethan because he’s safe. She’s always been taught sex is evil and, with what happened at the party and with Joe, that idea has only been reinforced (and probably mixed with a hefty dose of fear). So while she probably still has an idea of “fixing” him, I think she’s more with him because she feels he’s someone she can be with without fear.
She looks scared, and she SHOULD: this is pretty huge. For someone of Joyce’s basic integrity, there is NO going back from this. She tries to find a safe neutral ground first. Then hesitates. Stammers.
And then rejects one of the most important tenets she grew up with, the one so-called Christians most often use to deny others the love and charity that should be the heart of their religion, and is the heart of Joyce.
Sorry Becky couldn’t help you stay true to your pre-college self, Joyce. But trust me: one day you’ll see that she gave you something much better.
I’m really scared what she means by Becky’s mistakes. Please Willis don’t do this again. All of these relationships are going reasonably well, and I just know you will destroy them when the time comes. I will already be crying when Shortpacked! ends. Give us some time her please!
I’d say that this loving and generous version of Christianity has always been part of Joyce’s beliefs. In fact, in the showdown over her friendship with Dorothy, Joyce reminded her parents that *they* were the ones who instilled that belief in her. So Becky is actually helping Joyce see what it truly means to stand up for what she believes . . . even though it forces her to break with some of the lesser dogma, so to speak. : ) Joyce is following the Golden Rule, which is supposed to trump all the others, right?
Oh geez, that’s where this is going isn’t it XD It would be kind of perfect. Like in Twelfth Night when Olivia fell for Viola dressed as a guy, only to find she had a brother who looked just like her.
Honestly, as a self proclaimed perv, I say that Joyce is actually kinda Busty. I think amber is too but honestly I think Joyce is either TIED or actually bustier. It’s weird cuz I don’t like joyce but I like boobs. Gettin’ a feelin’ so complicated.
Looking at the group pictures it looks like Billie and Joyce are about the same bustiness, Joyce just doesn’t show it off. And Amber is actually noticeably bigger than either of them.
That may be the case, but that kind of reassessment is a very long journey that for many of us takes years and many, many events that force us to confront the real implications of our viewpoints over and over again.
Many events: Well, this isn’t the first event for Joyce. There was defending Dorothy to her parents. There is her relationship with Ethan, and her growing realization that he will never be able to love her as she would hope. On a more minor level, there is just living every day with people who have lifestyles outside of what she would consider acceptable, and her not turning into a super judgmental evil bongo. *cough*Mary*cough*
As far as time… Yes, in the real world, this is true. But things get compressed in fiction. For which we should be glad! If not compressed, given how slow time passes in these comics compared to us in the real world, we’d all be dead and in the grave before Joyce underwent any fundamental growth. 😛
I don’t think anything she could’ve done would’ve helped Becky (except, y’know, locking the door), and trying might have just gotten her dragged down, too.
From what I read of Kaitlin’s expression, she didn’t look too happy about how things turned out. So, I’m assuming Kaitlin probably has a fairly religious family, is going to a religious school, and was caught doing something that has caused religious families to outright disown and remove all support from their children.
Standing up for what she and Becky were doing in that situation would have meant risking ending up in a similar situation, ostracized from family and community and given no personal support. Or treated as if she is corrupted by sin and needs to be “educated.” It’s a horrible thing to face, and risking losing the people you’ve known all your life for someone you’ve known a few weeks is a difficult path to choose.
I’m not saying that Kaitlin’s decision is the right thing to do, or the best thing for her to do. But she’s human, just as human as Ethan, and she may be trying to protect what little security she can.
Kaitlin may have caved, but that kind of social pressure is hard to fight back against, fear is a great motivator. It’s easy to judge from the safety of distance, but if put in that spot you might you don’t have courage to stand up.
Given time, I’m sure Kaitlin will realise she’s living a lie, just as Ethan will too – particularly as hopefully after this Joyce will work out she shouldn’t be enabling him – but it takes time.
It’s hard to tell in advance what people will do when they’re put into the crucible. Kaitlin and Becky were probably raised in much the same way. One caved; one did not. Becky will now have to live on her own, without family support. And Kaitlin will live with her choice for the rest of her life. Will she admit to herself that she failed? Or will she bury it under piles of self-righteous homophobia?
I heard a woman speak at PFLAG once, who had buried her lesbian truth in college due to her religious family. Went on to marry a man and have kids. Finally, in her 40s, she couldn’t deny it any longer. Much more collateral damage to everyone, doing it that way.
The situation isn’t an easy one but, it kind of seemed like Kaitlin blamed Becky to save face. “claiming she’s a bad influence” In the same comic where Joyce with arguably the same background defended Dorothy to her parents. Even now, even though Joyce isn’t gay she’s still on Becky’s side. Which means she’s at the very least a better friend than Kaitlin. I sympathize with Kaitlin but no…that’s not okay.
Assuming Kaitlin actively threw Becky under the bus. It could just as easily have been Kaitlin’s parents assuming it was all Becky’s fault, and Kaitlin not having the brass ovaries to stand up for herself.
Also, I’m not entirely sure that Joyce isn’t bi. She’s a little too obsessed with Sal for me to think she’s entirely straight, but at the same time she’s clearly attracted to Ethan’s chest, so….
I wanted to blame Kaitlin but honestly even if she did actively betray Becky I find it rather hard to blame her. If she had not she might be in Becky’s position now and that is not something everyone can survive. What if Kaitlin has nobody outside her home support network at all?
What she did was wrong from a philosophical standpoint but noone does the right thing 100% of the time and ultimately, being in her position, I can’t imagine most people would make the right choice. Not everyone has the luxury to oppose their parents.
I don’t see why it’s hard to recognize that the two things are not necessarily in conflict. On the one hand, there was a huge risk in doing the right thing. On the other hand, taking responsibility for your actions is part and parcel of being an adult.
Kaitlin chickened out. Worse, she hurt Becky very directly by blaming her for something which would not have happened without mutual attraction. At the very least, she could have said something neutral like “I would like to be moved out of that room in order to avoid any future temptation.” That would at least not have deliberately paint Becky as the only person involve in Kaitlin’s ‘sin’.
Inflatabeds or camp pallets are extremely cheap and can be easily stowed during the day. Getting Sarah to agree to a third person in the room would be much harder.
Nah, it just means that the next storyline starts sometime in the three months of buffer Willis has uploaded already. He has to create the chapter in order to upload strips into it.
Because of the depth of the buffer Willis runs, there have been a few times when there’s been more than one future storyline title visible there. For example, there was a month or so when we were still in Teenage Churchmouse that stubs for both Up All Night and Whiteboard Dingdong Bandit were in the archives.
It may be both. The current storyline title, “When Somebody Loved Me”, seems to apply not only to the revelation of Becky’s romantic love for Joyce and Joyce putting her love of Becky ahead of her indoctrination, but also Dorothy’s confession of love to Walky and his bungled response to that, and Billie and Ruth finding each other to love (and bang silly) in the middle of their respective messes. There have been others that seem multi-layered like that. Willis is a lot better at titles than I am.
(I ship the hell out of Amber/Danny/Ethan, too, even though, unlike apparently everyone else, the revelation of Danny’s sexuality hasn’t made me like him more, and I have no prurient interest in seeing dudes bang.)
Getting Sarah to agree to a second roomie for more than a day or two: difficult.
Getting Sarah to agree to a second roomie for a day or two, while they check out any local resources for GLBT youth with craptastic families: probably pretty easy.
This is the woman who went to a frat party with a bat on the off chance that Joyce would get into trouble, after all. She’s grumpy, but she cares.
Joyce is taking this much better than I thought she would. I mean, the eyes in the last panel suggest otherwise, but it seems to be a mostly positive encounter.
Or I could be naive and have to cry out “DAMN YOU WILLIS” once more.
I think she always was. I don’t understand how anyone can hate her. She’s working with a lifetime of lies, here. I think her worldview is actually progressing at an admirable rate.
More like a breakneck rate–as does a lot of reevaluation, to be honest. Realizations hit like a brick, but man does it relieve a lot of stress in the end to be honest to who you are.
This. The hate that got directed at her was really better suited to her environment and education. Now that she’s out of it, her true nature, always there, is slowly burning away the crud that’s been dumped on her.
Joyce, I can not describe how proud of you I am. I’m voting Becky as great character, because you are the greatest character. You’re awesome, and I will never ever take that back, because fuck yea you are great.
Man, isn’t Joyce awesome?
Well, as far as I could tell the dragons of Skyrim didn’t need to eat, since they were the embodiment of the primal forces of creation, so actually they really viewed as sentients (and mammoths and giants) as TARGET Practice.
…I’m surprisingly okay with this – of course, for Joyce to reach the stage where her ‘template’ is, and given the ‘extended’ timeframe of this comic, I fear it’ll be Willis’ descendent(s) doing those comics….for OUR descendents.
Becky wants Joyce wants Ethan wants Danny. Now, Danny’s the knot at the end of the rope, since he’s both with Amber and wants Ethan. So, in order to build the chain, we’ll need to work backwards. Who will be interested in Becky, despite her lack of reciprocation?
Hey if after being kissed by her best friend who just came out as a lesbian and turning her down saying she’s not in to her. Because she’s not a lesbian. I believe her.
She didn’t actually say that she’s not into girls; just that she’s not into Becky like that. Could be she just thinks of Becky like a sister, and all her romantic and sexual girl-love is pinned on Dorothy.
But, yes, she’s obviously not a lesbian. She fantasizes about Ethan’s manly chest, and her other-universe self is happily married to a guy, has two kids, and, from what we saw, was very enthusiastic about making them. (Joyce is, seriously, a complete horndog underneath all that repression.)
But other-universe Danny is happily married to a woman, has two kids, and, so far as we know, was very enthusiastic about making them, and we’ve also seen him fantasizing about Ethan.
And other-universe Danny’s wife made those kids the old-fashioned way, seemed quite enthusiastic about that, and we’ve actually seen her banging the hell out of Ruth in both universes.
Bisexuality is a thing, is what I’m saying.
Also, being attracted to one person of a given sex doesn’t mean that you’re attracted to everyone of that sex.
The DoA Universe is the one where Joyce has been following Dorothy around like she wants to go down on her and acting jealous of the time Dorothy spends with Walky, has told her parents that she loves Dorothy, has expressed a fascination with and desire to crawl into Billie’s boobs, exhibited an obvious girlcrush on Sal and her person, particularly her hair, spent a whole storyline freaking out because she thought she might be gay, and has generally been sending enough “I’m into girls” signals to lead her lifelong best friend, who knows her as well as anyone in the world, to going in for a kiss and reacting with disbelief when Joyce objected.
It’s that other universe where she’s an apparently-straight married mother.
Turning down a woman once makes you not a lesbian forever. DULY NOTED.
You really, really, REALLY can’t bury the sheer amount of interest she’s displayed in women, and while some of it I can pretty easily see out of a straight woman, not all of it (It’s okay, Joyce. Billie’s got great boobs.) And the fact that I can’t see all of it as straight makes it harder to see the things that COULD be straight, as straight.
Totally. My headcanon Joyce is at least a Kinsey 1 until shown otherwise.
Let’s not forget that up until right now, Joyce has believed that being anything other than Kinsey 0 is bad and wrong, so it’s not surprising she’d deny it (including to herself).
Aye. Though I did mispeak. I should have said “not interested in women”. Since, yanno, kinsey 1 or kinsey 2 is about where I put Joyce in my headcanon.
Those faces confuse me. It feels like she’s lying to herself a bit. But who knows, maybe it is just a nice grand revelation, and maybe Joyce’s weird pose to Sarah actually was just a weird dynamic pose.
I think Joyce is conflicted but I think she meant what she said to Becky. Just, in her mind, it’s going against her belief in God, and Joyce might be feeling surprised that Becky’s winning.
Yeah, dailybrad’s is how I read it, too, like, it’s hard when your worldview begins to change, and there’s no going back, and she’s telling Becky the truth in this important moment.
“It was a close place. I took it up, and held it in my hand. I was a trembling, because I’d got to decide, forever, betwixt two things, and I knowed it. I studied a minute, sort of holding my breath, and then says to myself:”All right, then, I’ll go to hell”- and tore it up.”
I’m not sure Joyce is lying, per se, but I think right now she might be believing mutually exclusive things and is feeling super conflicted. Like she believes that lesbianism cannot be okay because of Romans, but Becky cannot be wrong because of Becky. Does not compute. *blue screen of death*
I’m just saying she might be going to Mary’s bible study Wednesday, just to try and make sense of this…
Or it’s not quite that hard. I can only speak to my own path, but for some people it’s not that she believes mutually exclusive things, but she’s shifted around *who she thinks is telling her the truth.* All the people who were telling her that lesbians are evil, and that God hates the gays? She knows they were lying now. And, of course, if they were willing to lie about that…. She hasn’t had time to make it that far yet. But I suspect that’s where this road leads.
Which, hey, let’s go ahead and make a prediction and see how right I get! She’s going to realize that the bible *doesn’t* necessarily mean that God hates him some gays. She’s going to come to the conclusion that she can still believe in God and the Bible and not read it to mean what she’s been told, as lots of people do. And then, because she is wonderful and awesome but *naive as hell* she’s going to try and share her wonderful revelation with her parents who will not respond as she hopes and will instead bemoan the horrible evil liberalism her horrible evil liberal college professors have instilled in her. Jocelyn will probably be involved and the drama hurricane will hit category 5.
Crying Joyce…
Here’s hoping it’s “crying because of worldview shattering into a zillion pieces and abandoning safety of preconceived notions”, not “crying from anguish of lying to best friend”.
I hope so, too. But even if it is a lie, it is an interesting development. Has Joyce ever been shown willing to tell such a lie before, even to spare the feelings of her best friend? And (if it is a lie) it is the sort that, in the telling, could lead to her realizing that the implied truth of it might not be so bad.
But I prefer to think (until Willis shows otherwise, if he does) that it is not a lie.
Joyce is going through a lot lately.
First, she stood up to her folks for Dorothy. She did so without compromising her beliefs, but it would have been easier for her not to do so. It showed a willingness to at least be open about associating with people different from herself, and not seeing such associations as wrong.
More recently, she is realizing she has no future with Ethan, at least not the kind she might want. He can care about her, but not in the way she would like.
And now, she is faced with the person she does love and care about the most being hurt by inflexible fundamentalist views, views she herself would have subscribed to herself. If she holds onto those views, she will be culpable in hurting Becky. And hurting Becky is thee last thing she wants to do!
Joyce is starting to question, if not her own beliefs, at least her rigidity in seeing her beliefs as the only way. Joyce, even if only as a friend, will stick by Becky.
(Now, to truly break Joyce’s old world view, she should meet her sister, Jocelyn!)
That’s not that comforting. Joyce is not incapable of lying (dingdong bandit!) It just means that if Joyce did lie here, she has all the more reason to despair and spiral further into self-hatred because of her sinful thoughts and actions.
But it means if she’s lying to Becky here, she’s not actually standing by her beliefs. She’s just violating them in a way that requires her to hate her best friend instead of a way that allows her to continue to love her. That seems rather pointless as well as being uncharacteristic of Joyce.
How is it out of hate? If she is lying (and that’s a big “if,” because I don’t think she is) she’d doing it because of love. Because she recognizes that, in this case, the alternative would be the hurtful thing. And Becky is someone Joyce does not want to hurt. Therefore, I believe that if it is a lie, it is because Joyce recognizes that in this case it is the truth that is wrong, and that will lead Joyce to reexamining what her truths are, and if some of them need adjusting.
That’s not really a fair representation of what she said.
Her first statement about homosexuality being no worse than lying is attempting to see it through the eyes of the Bible — how God sees sins, and she says she has no reason to believe homosexuality is any worse a sin than any other one, even ones considered relatively small like ‘lying’.
Now unrelated to that, she personally hates lying.
Already being re-evaluated, if you recall the last time we saw the two of them together. She knows he can (and possibly does) love her… but in what way?
I hope this leads to Joyce and Ethan ending it… But I hope that in doing so, they don’t stop being there for each other. They’re a great pair… as friends!
Of course, the other shoe is gonna drop once it’s brought up that Joyce is basically treating her “boyfriend” with the same mindset Becky’s parents are treating her.
Exactly, I honestly don’t think Joyce has had any revelations just yet. Shit is going to hit the fan and I really do think that Joyce is going to be the one that’s going to take it the hardest. Her world has just begun to shatter in that last panel
To be fair, she was already figuring out what she was doing with Ethan wasn’t the most moral thing to do.
I don’t think she was really tying to turn him strait. That was her reason she gave to people for staying with him but I think it was a cover so she was able to date this guy whom she didn’t have to worry about touching her.
Absolutely – and it’s worth remembering that Ethan came to her, not the other way around. Everything she’s said about their relationship since she found out he’s gay serves to justify HIS decision of being in a straight relationship despite being gay. In a way she’s just being loyal like a good girlfriend should be.
Not that it makes their relationship the best of ideas of course, but it’s THEIR mistake, not Joyce’s. (It can be argued that it’s more Ethan’s mistake)
Remember, a big part of her thing with him is that he is “safe”. He is a big, strong dude that will protect her, and won’t try to rape her. She isn’t really trying to change him.
Not quite. There is a big difference between sending someone off to straight boot camp, and trying to tempt someone to the het side by snuggling your cute curvy body against him. I mean, neither one will achieve the desired result, but the latter is a lot less nasty. Heck, when word gets around, you will see some straight guys pretending to be gay so Joyce can try to “fix” them, wheras no one in their right mind volunteers for straight boot camp.
You can also cry when you eat something sour, yawn, have something in your eye, get kicked in the nuts, eat something spicy, Find out that you’re not the legendary super saiyan, and when you’ve eaten something that just doesn’t taste very good.
Yeah, but it’s the tears mixed with the face in the previous panel, and a little bit of a Pavlovian-like response to the twist and turns of a Willis story.
This happened with my best friend and I, only he was Joyce and I was Becky, and he said something very similar to that. This made me feel so damned happy lol, damn you Willis, I’m in tears!
Ethan’s done a good job of showing her how gay people are “normal” which she’s mentioned before, that some of her stances have changed, but this is a double whammy. Not only is it homosexuality, it’s in the face of religious institutions like Becky’s school or the parents she’s been around for years likely, so it’s a lot to process, but I do think she means it when she says she puts Becky first.
Now that we’ve had this supremely affirming moment, I’m even more worried that Becky is just dropping in and we’re not going to see her again for a while.
What’s wrong with sleeping under a desk? When I was living in my college’s dorms, I put my mattress under the desk and then I had extra storage space as a result. It was also much easier to get to bed rather than a bunk bed.
Aww! Friendship wins for Joyce! And Becky so needs a good friend right now.
And she’s finally showing some of her grown up self here. My least favorite thing about DoA’s been watching Joyce be an idiot again. Please don’t backslide again!
I have to pick a fight with any animal at all, hippo would be last of the list. Most bears or sharks or elks or what-have-you would just get bored and walk away. The hippo would stomp at my head, drown me, belch and then walk away.
On the other hand, I would place Quetzalcoatlus at the top of mine. Zombies aren’t fun. Zombies of creatures with heads twice the size of a T. Rex’s and ridiculous flying speeds are even less fun.
There is a higher risk worldwide of getting bitten by a NewYorker than a shark (not news to anyone who’s lived in New York of course). I wonder how hippos rank.
I wonder if Joyce views her acceptance of Becky as a sinful act. I think she’s telling the truth but she has a lot of conflicted feelings about it that she knows better than to dump on poor Becky.
My heart goes out to these girls. Becky really, really needed that.
Has Joyce said something like “win every time” before? That was the phrase she used when she told her parents she would keep hanging out with Dorothy because she believed Jesus would approve, right? So maybe Joyce is realizing in the last panel that she might have been unintentionally lying/not telling the whole truth back then, and she really is letting secular affection outweigh her old beliefs.
Hmmm, I checked and that wasn’t it. I could swear I’ve seen that phrase before in a Willis comic, though. Maybe it was in Shortpacked? Anyway, the sentiment still stands; Joyce might be realizing that, no, she totally will consider her friends before she thinks about the scriptural ramifications.
Alternate unlikely interpretation: Joyce may be interpreting these events as a divine sign? She was asking God for a sign and he sent her the one thing that could have made her 100% sure that it couldn’t be wrong to be gay.
Oh boy, you can just see the mental bombshell go off in Joyce’s head right now. I think this is one of the few times the beliefs drilled into her and her personal morals have directly clashed. Each time that happens she’s grown as a person. The only other instance of this was standing up to her parents. Now she has this, the belief that being gay is sinful and a mistake, but in seeing this situation with Becky (and Ethan too) she’s being forced to confront those beliefs. Now that she’s confronting this, and being forced to look at the despicable actions of Becky’s father and the school and everything, I think she’s going to bring a lot of her beliefs into question and grow quite a bit.
Or maybe that’s just extremely wishful thinking on my part, but hey, I can dream
No, god damn it. You guys are right. This could just as easily go either way. And honestly I think Joyce is stuck in the middle right now – she realises her worldviews are shattering even faster, but she’s not willing to accept it in an instant – who would? So she lies. It’s the right thing to do. Still, it’s progress, even if it’s just baby steps. Bless you, Joyce.
I don’t think she’s lying. If your entire worldview compels you to suddenly have to hate your best friend, having them immediately shattered is freeing, not terrifying. She is, at heart, a good person, and shattering those views means she is allowed to love everyone she wants to again.
I don’t think she’s lying either. She certainly didn’t lie to her parents when Dorothy was around. She might be a little surprised to find that she’s telling the truth, it might take her a while to fully change her views (a “what did I just say/what will God think” scene might be coming up), but I don’t think she’s lying.
I think this moment represents a whole lot of people who are basically good, and who were raised ultra-religious. I hope that many folks reevaluate their preconceptions when faced with a living, breathing gay person whom they love, that there are people who will always choose to be kind and loving no matter what.
Becky and Joyce are helping to make the world better just by being themselves :,)
I can attest to that. Having an openly gay member may have been the best thing that ever happened to my youth group. I mean, our church was pretty accepting anyway, but having him around really brought some people to their senses, I think.
JOYCE LOOKS SO VULNERABLE RIGHT NOW AND I CAN’T BEGIN TO FATHOM HOW CONFLICTED SHE MUST FEEL AND I’M GONNA HAVE TO GO BUY ICE CREAM TO CONTINUE TO DEAL WITH THIS STORYLINE
Their friendship is wonderful. The love is back. I love everything. I love all of you, I love my dog and I love my life. I pray that I’ll have a relationship like this before I die.
As someone who loves boobs, I never understood motorboating. I just suffocate myself in them. That’d be the best funeral ever. “He died doing what he loved”.
It’s killing me that I can’t tell if Joyce is crying because she has to lie to her best friend, or if she’s crying because she really doesn’t think what Becky did was wrong and it’s breaking her worldview. Hoping it’s the latter…
It’s going to be interesting how they actually deal with the reality of the situation though. Joyce may actually have a better support network then she realizes among her friends and acquaintances, but there are still so many pitfalls they could fall into.
It’s really cute when hippos wiggle their ears. Still, I’ll watch from a respectful distance, preferably from above. I’ve read that hippos are very territorial, and that more people in Africa are killed by hippos than are killed by lions. (Mainly since hippos like lurking in rivers partially submerged and it is easy for an unfortunate boatman to startle one accidentally.)
Fuck yes Joyce.
But yeah.. Becky totally needs to move to that place… Though I’m guessing she’s not actually in love with Joyce. Hopefully not at least it’ll make life harder for her~
and Becky’s kinda awesome
The way I read her that isn’t new – people like Joyce always know they are sinner in small or large fashion but that the lords forgives. And in this situation Joyce is choosing between love and doctrine, not a tough choice, and not hard for her to justify in the eyes of the lord.
See, I think what’s what bugging me. I generally agree that, based on past characterization, Joyce wouldn’t lie like that. IF she did, it would be due to very specific circumstances (see: DingDong Whiteboard Bandit).
But Joyce is already having serious bouts of self-hate because of her ‘sinful’ thoughts and feelings, including her feelings of jealousy for those that DON’T feel guilty for ‘sinning’. She knows she’s a sinner, and that everyone sins, but even with God’s forgiveness, it’s still wrong.
Even assuming that everything she’s saying is true, that she’s picking love for her friend over the doctrine she’s been taught is the Word of God (and I really want to believe that is what is happening), I don’t think her worldview/faith is to the point where she’s not going to see what she’s doing as a sin (possibly, the worst; she’s implicitly saying ‘Becky>God’, and that’s about as bad as you can get). It’s easier to say ‘hate the sin, love the sinner’ when it’s not yourself.
So, I’m happy that Joyce is continuing to make progress, but I think things are going to get worse before they get better.
I think she’s saying it was the lesbianism… because that’s her default thought-process. But that’s why Becky called her out on it… and the impetus for Joyce to change her mind.
I know what Joyce is feeling there. I was a stooge who regurgitated everything my parents taught me for seventeen years. I spewed whatever bile they fed me without question. but slowly quandaries bubbled up in my beliefs. Each time i kicked them down, fearing the fires of hell would swallow me whole just for indulging them for a moment. One day I was loudly professing my absolute disgust at the notion of stem cell research because that was the Hot Topic(TM).
My teacher looked to me. “Shut up.” She said coldly. I looked to her and with the smug arrogance of a teenager. “what? You’re in favor of killing babies?
The hot fury she unleashed will remain with me for the rest of my life. She dismantled me on the spot. “You think you know everything? Why is stem cell research bad?” “It kills babies.” “THE EMBRYOS THAT ARE USED AREN’T FERTILIZED, IF THEY ARE THEY’RE FROZEN AND NOT GOING TO TERM.” On and on she called me out with questions and decimated me but ultimately I didn’t even want to fight her because I couldn’t.
Even I didn’t believe what I was saying, i knew nothing about it, and I’d hurt her. Because the last thing she said was “My daughter has sickle cell anemia. And that research could be the only thing to save her, HOW IS THAT WRONG?” “It’s not” I squeaked out, trying not to cry in front of my class. I loved this woman. She was like a second mother to me and now I saw her not as an angelic kind woman but as a person with problems and suddenly every issue i had ‘opinions’ about wasn’t about ‘us versus them’ but about people.
Anyhow, when Joyce is forced to say she doesn’t believe I know how painful that is. To be forced to speak the words you just can’t allow yourself to say, the guilt and torment and loathing that follows but it’s healthy. It’s the first step.
This is true. But plenty of stem cell research is done using umbilical cords, which doesn’t hurt anyone, born or unborn, regardless of your views on abortion.
True, but the point is that stem cells from excess IVF castoffs are from just that, castoffs. They would be discarded as superfluous to requirements if they weren’t used for stem cells.
This is it, this is why fundamentalism can only exist as long as its adherents keep themselves isolated from the “sinners” they despise. You can’t maintain a pretence of “us vs them” if you let yourself realise that “they” are really “us” after all. It’s such a precise inversion of the radical welcome that biblical Christianty actually presents, and so counter to the way Jesus himself is shown to act; in fact, it’s the very thing he rails against more than anything else.
Pointing to peers who “weathered worldly temptations” or some such is survivorship bias; fundamentalists who actually do get to know people outside the bubble generally stop being fundamentalists. There’s only so much cognitive dissonance a person can handle before the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.
[/rant]
Joyce, I think, is coming to that realisation, and starting to see how harmful many of the things she’s been brought up to believe really are. She’s taken huge steps in the past few weeks, and the cracks in the dam are widening. The question now is how she responds.
When I got here 11 minutes after the comic had posted there were already 72 comments posted and after reading them all I’m going to see how many more have been posted in the meantime.
But first, I would not have given Joyce this much credit for accepting Becky and standing up for her this soon after starting college. It’s almost like someone was re-writing her personality as the comic progresses…
First of all… feels. So many feels. So glad they’re hugging it out now. :’)
Here’s my theory/prediction…
Dorothy comes back, sees Joyce and Becky hugging it out, asks if everything is okay. Becky’s initially hesitant to spill the beans, Joyce assures Becky friends are really smart and will know what to do. Next day Dorothy and Joyce take Becky to see Leslie and the four of them (mainly Dorothy and Leslie) talk about resources and the possibility of maybe being admitted to Indiana University. Leslie takes on a mentoring/sister role for Becky, introduces her to Ruth. Suggests they go out and do something to get Becky’s mind off of things for a short while and they go ice skating. Ruth, being a hockey fan, notices Becky is a natural at ice skating and suggests she try out for the women’s team, despite Becky’s protests that she had never played it before and so doesn’t have skates or equipment. (“Whatever, you can use mine, I don’t have time for it anymore.” “Err okay…”) Eventually Becky becomes a member of the team and is admitted to I.U on a sports scholarship.
There aren’t any characters who are athletes. (If there are, my bad. I’m still kind of reading through the archive) So it would make sense for Becky to be admitted to the university on some kind of sports scholarship after a team discovers that she has talent and a competitive/fighting spirit. Also, it hasn’t been revealed if Joyce or Becky did any sports stuff before college. They may have gone ice skating or swimming, if nothing else.
(or)
Ross shows up and shit hits the fan.
Also does Indiana University have an ice hockey team?
Interesting theory, though kind of random? We do have a team, incidentally. I’ve been to a game. I think we have more than one (there are different levels and such, I’m not an expert).
Mary’s a dangerous name to have around here… ha ha. But anyway, welcome! (At least you have a Roz avatar… If you had one of your namesake in the comic, that’d be too bizarre!)
I like your theory! I’d love if especially the earlier parts of it play out just as you’ve suggested.
What is going to happen to Becky, though? Is she transferring? Can she is she’s cut off from her parents? Will Joyce actually try to hide her under her desk (please no)? Can Joyce go to Leslie? I’m curious whether Willis is actually working Becky in as a regular character or if she will disappear again after this arc.
LGBTQ scholarships are a thing, so if she does want to transfer somewhere that might be helpful? She could certainly write one hell of a heart-wrenching application letter based on what’s happened to her.
There are so many people on this campus that could help in different ways – Billie, Ruth, Amber/Amaziegirl, Ethan, Dorothy, Walky’s parents… – and so many of them that are really fond of Joyce. With just a tiny bit of luck this will turn into a heartwarming cavalcade of people pitching in to help Becky out.
You are yet young and full of hope. One day you will see, as I have seen, that Willis is a cruel creature possessed of a singular cunning and malevolent intelligence.
this could actually potentially a great political stand for Robin. Even among among conservatives, straight-conversion therapy is pretty poorly regarded.
That’s a good Joyce. That’s a very, very good Joyce.
And that smile! I love it. It’s the smile of someone who knows, for the first time in this entire conversation, that what she’s saying and doing is both right and good. A big, solid personal truth to stand on, after spending all that time out of her depth, flailing and drowning.
I’m a bit baffled by everyone being so happy for Joyce. She’s certainly done the right thing, and something of great integrity. Like, maybe she fought the forces of evil and I’m happy she won, but it feels wrong to indulge that while she’s bleeding out on the pavement. (pretend this comparison works)
Your point is taken, and it is harder to heal emotional wounds than physical. Still, many people would have run away from such a painful moment, rather than have the courage and personal integrity to face it. We can be happy that Joyce is such a person. However, as I noted previously, this has taken a lot out of her and will continue to do so for quite some time afterwards.
Yeah, that face in the last panel? That’s not the “I am so happy that I realized the fallacy of my ways” face.
I think it’s more of a “My entire world-view is shattering and the only thing keeping me sane is that I am yet unaware of how much more it’ll continue to shatter in the next few weeks”
Personally I think it is less of her world-view and more “my best friend is in a shitty place but we have managed to reestablish our friendship, and came hell or high water I will help her.”
I’m still convinced that it’s simply a “relieved for my friend” face. Maybe combined with a bit of sadness that Becky’s had a tough time. I suppose we’ll see tomorrow.
That last line? That’s about as explicit a statement of love can be. Perhaps not romantically, but definitely love. And that’s why I love Joyce. She’s the most relatable female character in DoA. (Male being Danny, naturally.)
Being a Christian myself, I can safely say that the world needs more Joyce’s out there.
I love Becky so much. I wish I could say that her struggles with her family were an anomaly for gay children of Christian parents, but it’s such a major problem. This storyline is just so real that it breaks my heart. And Joyce sticking up for her friend really makes me feel like crying for the other reason. This is so great.
Joyce’s innate decency wins again over the brainwashing, just like it did when she defended Dorothy against her parents. While I have no idea how much is must be costing her or will cost her emotionally to push aside her upbringing, it is a massive act of courage and integrity.
Posted this a day or two ago, but it applies. From Alan Moore’s “The Mirror of Love”:
While life endures we’ll love, and afterwards, if what they say is true, I’ll be refused a heaven crammed with popes; policemen; fundamentalists, and burn instead, quite happily, with Sappho, Michaelangelo, and you, my love.
I’d burn throughout eternity with you.
At first blush, this is turning out far better and less heartrendingly terrible than expected! Though what Becky’s going to do next is…problematic. Try to find a cheap apartment and work at Galasso’s Pizza (and Subs?) Impress Galasso so much that he demands her and Conquest get together to sire an heir? Slipshine? Have I gotten that far ahead of myself? Where am I? Am I having a stroke? Tyr to fndia chee pepert men at work at Andasso’s Subzis (Gal Piz?)
For the record, I am just loving this chapter overall. Emotionally, it’s been one of the most satisfying installments so far!
Also for the record, I still believe that Becky is the vessel that will unleash eldritch horror from beyond matter and thought unto us all.
Finally, regarding the hover text…if there are hippos in Joyce’s life, her backstory is more interesting than I had assumed.
Excellent post TCampbell.
I agree.
Something important just did a 180 degree turn inside Joyce. Huge huge change in her life and belief system.
I am not her fan. And I’m not a Christian. But I see what happened here and think it’s a great storyline arc.
Joyce just rejected her parential upbringing and church, and opted to do the thing that her religion actually seems to say to do: cast not the first stone, forgive, judge not that ye be not judged, and all that. And help those who need it.
Love your friends. They are all that’s important. (Try to love your family, a bit harder 🙂 )
Joyce’s parents will find out about Becky’s scandal, and put two and two together. They will expect Becky to go running to Joyce, or at least worry about the possibility, and come looking. They will probably try to pull Joyce out of college either way. And if Joyce is under 18, they will be able to force her to come home with them.
Legally speaking, they cannot.
The Equal Protection Clause affords equal rights regardless of gender, creed, race, age, etc; As such, unless the child is deemed mentally unfit, they have any rights a non-child would have- including the right to be located where they wish.
UNFORTUNATELY, the misconception you’ve presented, and the associated ‘property’ status children (and pets) hold, pervades most of the legal (and certainly our notably corrupt enforcement) system, so in a sense, you’re entirely correct.
However, that all aside, Joyce’s parents made a big display the last time they were over that they may not understand or agree with her decisions, but they still love and support her, and respect her right to make her own decisions- and that she has the strength of will to make them on her own.
Or at least, that was the impression I got.
On the flip side, here’s where you’ve got an argument to go on-
If Becky is a minor, and Joyce houses her, then the parents can move for Unlawful Harboring of a Minor; Of course, while that’s usually used as a ‘rights of the parents to their property’, once again actual law and common conception/use differ:
Unlawful Harboring of a Minor does not prohibit harboring a minor, or even denying parents access to that minor. It prohibits hiding the presence of the minor to a law enforcement representative; not revealing information about the minor when requested; or otherwise obstructing the officer from pursuing the minor.
Ergo, the parents can file for an officer to pursue Becky, and so long as Joyce complies fully with any police requests, she can’t be held accountable.
Now, from here, the officer could support Becky- but probably wouldn’t, because of social expectations of children as property and the non-interference of police in that expectation generally overwhelming moral/legal right.
And Becky could respectfully refuse to leave her location- assuming she knew her legal rights, and the officers accepted those rights.
So basically..
Actual laws aside, the situation will really end up more or less like you described, one way or another.
It really, truly sucks to be a minor with circumstances.
The Equal Protection Clause affords equal rights regardless of gender, creed, race, age, etc; As such, unless the child is deemed mentally unfit, they have any rights a non-child would have- including the right to be located where they wish.
Do cops not return runaway teens to their parents against the kids’ will?
This is a good page. Joyce is just such a great character. I like that even though it goes against everything she has been told/believes in, she would still choose her best friend over it all and reevaulate her own beliefs because of it.
I can’t believe Joyce is now one my favourite character here, when I really didn’t care for her in the Walkyverse. Yay for Joyce!
I certainly hope you’re right, because from her expression on the last panel, it looks a bit like Joyce is lying her face off and just saying what she knows Becky needs to hear right now.
She’s doing the right thing by Becky, even if she still believes it’s “wrong”.
With everything that’s happened in her time in college, little by little she is being forced to re-evaluate what she knows is true, what she’s been told, what she’s grown up with, and she will have to face up all of these and make a decision on her own…hopefully she’ll realize and pardon the cliche answer, that life is not black and white
I dunno, it kind of looks like she’s crying to me with a happy supportive smile. But in a ‘I’m-supporting-you-though-this-situation-is-really-scary-and-I-don’t-know-what-to-do-but-you’re-my-bff’ kind of way.
I would really hope that she’s not lying, it would be a huuuuuuge step back for her if it was. To me, it looks like she tried to give out a vague neutral answer, and when ofc, that wasn’t good enough, she actually thought about it and decided that she actually maybe all those things she were told as ‘bad’ and ‘mistakes’ weren’t really. I’m kind of hoping after all this, we can see some lighthearted shenanigans with some other characters, then just cut to Joyce telling Ethan that they need to break up. I can’t see much of a future with those two after this.
Joyce is best friend. She’s my very favorite character. What a great moral ethical good soul. She wins at everything, no matter what cray cray is thrown at her.
Maybe I’m a little more optimistic, but I think she’s running up to a rock and a hard place, between loving her friend and her lifelong beliefs. Something has to give, and I’m hoping that it’s going to help her grow, and open up a little more to what’s really going on with Ethan (and her).
Not that that isn’t painful as fuck. It really is.
That isnt something that might happen, off in the future.
It already happened on this very page.
This is personal growth. And it was painful, she screwed up,
She got an instant do-over; almost screwed it up a second time,
stopped herself, and remembered to put her stated love for Becky first.
There is going to be all kinds of consequences from this,
from the way she relates to Ethan,
and Billy,
She might talk to Mandy and try to learn from what she was afraid of.
This is Joyce that knows the homophobia she was instilled in with,
Damaged her best friends life, and almost cost her her best friend.
( It also doesnt hurt that she had an epiphany , on her first screw up;
She learned even the her best friend couldnt make her gay. And It shocks her to silence. )
She loves her friends, straight and gay, and learned they cant turn her gay.
Its just a short step to acknowledging, that she cant turn Ethan straight either. She may not even want to now
That’s a very good point – whatever else comes from this situation, we have Joyce realizing that homosexuality is absolutely not a choice. If she – Joyce – could choose to be gay, I think in that moment she might have, if only to comfort her best friend, who was clearly hurting deeply and reaching out to her desperately.
Now, however, Joyce has learned through firsthand experience that even if you want to, even if it’s for the sake of a person you love, you don’t get to choose your sexual orientation. Gay, straight, or anywhere in between, you are stuck with what you’ve got.
And on top of that, she’s even acknowledging that no, it’s not wrong, it can’t be wrong, because this is Becky. I think she’s already known this for a while – she’s met so many people that are both not-straight and wonderful – but now it’s trembling and crying in her arms, smacking her right in the face with the truth: People are People and if your God is really love, then this cannot be as wrong as I’ve been lead to believe.
This is beautiful character growth! Cheers and salutes, Mr. Willis!
I was raised Christian, and taught that gay people would go to hell.
A couple of months into my sophomore year of college, one of my best friends (who I’d met in the first week) told me she was gay.
I knew instantly that there was no way this person was going to hell. Thus, my beliefs about gayness must be 100% wrong. I didn’t just change my opinion – my whole outlook and attitude toward all kinds of “alternative” sexuality did a 180 degree flip-flop in those first five seconds.
So if Joyce suddenly changes her entire approach to LGBTQ people and issues… yes, it can happen just like that.
But it took me another 5 years to stop being Christian. It wasn’t that my friend took precedence over God. It was just that I recognized that all those teachings must be wrong, irrelevant to Christianity, the product of human error, ignorable.
I was Raised as a Christian as well, however when I was going through highschool, my parents started saying “But you may like boys instead of girls, not that theres anything wrong with that.” Part of me thinks that my parents feared that I was gay (to explain, I had 0 interest in dating anyone since the girls there only dated for sex (personally thought it was wrong)) and decided to accept that possibility, rather than disown me.
I am currently agnostic since I do question a lot about religion, however haven’t chosen to give up on it since I do believe there is something out there. Although when people ask me to follow the bible to the point, I merely tell them it is more like a guideline on how to act, not the actual rules.
You’re in college, you’ve got one closet, and maybe a couple of boxes of clothes and other things from home. Unless you’re Mary Richards (old TV show reference) there’s going to have to be some reappearances of outfits from time to time.
Joyce says she hates lying so the idea she is simultaneously lying to her best friend so she can break her heart later is like saying Sal really wants to sell her motorcycle and use the money to buy frilly dresses.
Yes, if you put your legs on the left. You won’t be able to reach the rear brake pedal, but as long as you don’t go too fast, you can make do with the front brake alone.
Still, definitely not recommended. Riding a Vespa would be a better choice. 🙂
Perhaps that Joyce would always be there for her, that however shocked she might be she would come around, that she’s her best friend and will win every time. That together there’s nothing they can’t do.
Her face says ‘I just decided the bible was wrong even though I’ve been raised to believe it’s 100% correct about everything which shakes the very core of everything I’ve ever believed.’
The title of this post makes me think she ISN’T lying. The Pit, it’s called. I think she just weighed potential damnation in her head and found Becky more important.
That face say’s she’s lying to you? It says “Holy Crap I just realized everything I know is wrong. This person I love can’t possibly be going to hell for loving the same sex” to me.
And that’s not an easy realization for someone like her.
“Joyce, how has your freshman year of college been?”
“Well, I got drunk and nearly got raped, I’ve got a crush on a guy (that I don’t realize is gay), I got a graphic display of what a dildo is used for (and it doesn’t go on your head), I drew a bunch of penises on my dorm white boards, and I stood up to my parents about Billie. Oh, and my best friend Becky kissed me and told me she loves me…”
It’s irrational to feel proud of a fictional character’s achievements, especially when you had no hand in it whatsoever. Nevertheless, today’s word of the day is naches.
Now I’ll admit I only recently started Bingeing on the archives to catch up but to some of the people thinking Joyce is lying and is about to do something awful I have to ask are we reading about the same Joyce?
Every Joyce heavy story seems to be about her changing world view and dealing with it. Yes she’s made mistakes like dating Ethan and trying to “Fix” his gayness but beyond that her story has been about discovering how things she once saw as endlessly unquestionably evil really aren’t.
The end of this strip, to me at least, seems to show Joyce fully realizing that and doesn’t seem to want to change Becky. She’s not seeing her as an “Evil” homosexual she’s seeing her as a friend who’s in a very bad place.
It’s great Character Growth and it continues Joyce’s arc very wonderfully in my opinion.
I’m glad Becky isn’t going to just let Joyce hide behind her ignorance. Becky is self aware enough that this is who she is and no one is going to tell her that she had any choice to begin with.
I think “homophobic” is the wrong term for a girl who seemed to really enjoy snuggling with a man she knew was gay. “Claustrophobic” has a rather specific meaning, while “homophobic” gets used too broadly IMHO.
“Homophobia” in the sense of “fear of homosexuality” might actually be more accurate to describe Joyce’s feelings on the matter. Joyce doesn’t hate homosexuals or necessarily even homosexuality, but we had a whole storyline about how she was afraid she was becoming homosexual. (Ironically, the same day Becky stopped answering her phone.)
although of course the limitations in size prevent it in that layout. I think it’s better without the pause. Overcoming long-held, deeply-ingrained beliefs for the sake of a friend is admirable; doing so quickly enough to ensure that Becky believes it and isn’t left hanging is heroic, given how much Becky needs the support right now.
And Joyce’s brain blows a few more circuits. I like her character development in the comic, but especially this strip. Her worldview is adjusting, but not all at once.
Thinking for yourself feels pretty good, doesn’t it, Joyce?
And now I’m imagining Becky will have the hots for both Joyce and Sarah. Not sure if that’s even a good thing considering the emotional rolar coaster we’ve just been on.
So… I’m writing Dumbing of Age fanfic now. How did I come to that? Anyway, I’m not sure if that’s OK. Feel free to delete if not.
There were tears but there was also laughter, because despite everything they were right now two best friends in the whole world sharing a pizza in the middle of the night. They hugged, they cried, they talked and they didn’t notice that the door opened.
“Well, Becky, it’s time to figure out what to do next.”
“You will come with me, young lady.”
“Stay away from her!” Joyce was up from her seat and between Becky and her father in an instant.
“Step aside, miss Brown. I’ll talk to your parents later, rest assu…”
“Do we have a problem?”
“And who are you?”
“For people like you I’m the Alpha bongo.”
“Really? That’s so corny.”
“Shut up Ruth.”
“Make me. Anyway, what the Alpha bongo here is trying to tell you is to get the hell out of here.”
“Or what?”
“Or I’ll scream HELP, THIS JERK IS HARASSING US. CHEER-LEADER IN DISTRESS OVER HERE.”
“Get out of my way!!!” In the corner of his eyes Ross could see his daughter and her friend… lover? (horrible thought) being whisked away by the waitress. He made an attempt to follow but ran in to what seemed to be a solid steel wall, but turned out to be a mountain of a man, wearing a chef’s apron and staring at him with mad eyes.
“WHO DARE DISTURB GALASSO’S CUSTOMERS?”
“Sir, this is a family matter.”
“THIS IS A FAMILY ESTABLISHMENT!!!”
“My daughter thinks she is a queer and has betrayed the family honor with that… tramp back there. Now let me get to them before… ”
“CEASE YOUR IRRELEVANT CHATTER AND REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THE PRESENCE OF GALASSO BEFORE I TURN YOU INTO TOMORROWS MAIN COURSE!!!”
On the campus Dorothy’s finger danced over the keyboard. It had taken less than a minute of Joyce tearful explanation of the situation over the phone to put her in full commando central mood (which, while impressive also was somewhat scary, in Walky’s opinion).
“Hello, Campus Security, I wish to report a man engaging in suspicious activity.”
“Hello, Miss Beans. It’s Dorothy, one of your students. I’m so sorry to disturb you in the middle of the night but we have an emergency.”
“Hello, It’s Dorothy. We are in need of shelter space and I wonder if you can help us…”
“Hello, my name is Dorothy, I got your number from Ethan…”
“Um… Hi mum, I… No, everything is fine… Yes, me and Dorothy are still… No she’s not… OF COURSE I KNOW HOW TO USE A FRIGGIN’ CONDOM! We need help with… No it’s not Sal either. Just listen to me…”
Ross fumed as he left the car in the parking lot. He would get back to the dorms and nab the girls there, and then… His thoughts were disturbed by a polite cough.
“WHAT?”
“Hi sir, I’m Danny and I have a message for you. She says that…”
“You can tell my worthless daughter that…”
“I’m pretty sure you don’t have a daughter any more sir, shame on you, and you don’t scare me. I’ve seen scary and you’re not it. Anyway, you should know that this campus is protected. She knows who you are and why you are here. She has followed you the last half hour. She can see you. She is in the shadow. Any shadow.”
“Who?”
“The protector. Better step carefully, sir.”
“Better step carefully, Ross Macintyre.” The voice growled behind him. But when he looked he saw nothing but shadows.
Holy shit, did Joyce just Grow As A Person?? If so, good for her! It might help her out a little bit when she inevitably finds out her “boyfriend” is gay.
Yeah she already knows about that, she’s trying to “fix” him. Hopefully this will help her come to terms with and deal with that situation in a more appropriate way.
Damn you Willis, just when I was getting used to seriously disliking Joyce for all of her horrible decisions, you have to go and make me like her for her huge heart.
Ah and here’s the strip that I finally really want to cry at. I’m actually a little choked up.
My grandma ignores my sexuality just like she ignores that I am biracial, and not Christian. She loves me so dearly, and can’t accept that I am ‘a sinner’ or born from a sinner. (she is very racist, and I whole heartedly believe that she thinks interracial marriage is a sin. tho my aunt is bi-racial, but she says that ‘mexicans are basically white anyway’ which is NOT TRUE, but again, is an easy way for her to close her eyes, and harden her shell. When I post LGBT positive things, or talk about my sexuality on facebook, she messages me to take them down.
But for some reason, she chose to not be this way with my mom. When my mom came out as bisexual to her, she tried to have me removed from her care, and called her a monster. She said some really horrific stuff to my mom, and my mother was in hysterics for days. They’re back on speaking terms, but only because my mother fell in love with a man and married him. I suspect my grandma assumes that my mom is “fixed” or that she had been going through a rough phase in life or something.
But I would love it if my grandma would extend the kindness and understanding that Joyce is giving Becky to us. I would really like that a lot.
Oops! Grandma! Should be a closed parentheses after shell. BUT it is my grandma who says mexicans are basically white. She grew up teaching my aunt that she was white, and my aunt stays inside as much as she can to lighten her skin. She didn’t used to. When she was a kid, her skin was dark. Not so anymore. She says she hated her dark skin.
Hispanic isn’t considered white, it’s not a racial category at all. You can be Hispanic of any race, it just refers to being associated with Spain or Portugal culturally.
*That* is the message you got from this arc? How odd, since the whole arc seemed to be about how true friendship overcomes all obstacles to me. The message you seem to have got from this was only lightly touched upon in passing in one panel of one strip of the entire arc.
Perhaps you are just sensitive to that particular message. If so, ask yourself why.
I don’t know why people keep expecting the worst of Joyce. First there were people who expected her to push Becky away with bigotry. When that didn’t happen there were people expecting her to treat Becky as if she had a curable illness. I get that that sort of behaviour isn’t uncommon from people with a similar upbringing to hers, but I don’t think we’ve ever been given any clues to imply that Joyce is like that. Quite the opposite in fact.
Oh, we have it on good authority that Joyce is modeled after some real person. And if she were a lot like that real person, we’d be going “Damn you, Joyce” all the time.
> there were people expecting her to treat Becky as if she had a curable illness.
Remind me again about the details of her relationship with Ethan in your universe’s version of the comic? Because, you know, she’s shown no indication before this strip of not believing that being gay is a choice / something that can be cured / etc.
Shortening is crisco. Forshortening refers to eating exactly four jars of crisco, a technique often used by artists to increase their power levels, as lard is scientifically proven to increase manual dexterity.
Apparently it comes in both formats – the bars (or “baking sticks”) are designed to be cut into teaspoons/tablespoons like a stick of butter, but the traditional format is a cardboard can.
Wow, it’s simply incredible how not only this comic, but also the outpouring of community is forming in these comments. Not only are we invested in the personal growth and development in both Joyce and Becky through this arc, but people are bonding over their own shared experiences and related stories. It’s really a sight to behold.
Fantastic work, Willis, for having us squeeing like fangirls at the kiss, crying along with Becky as runs off, frothing at the mouths for Ross’ neck and overall damning and praising you the whole while. Great work, Man!
Perhaps Joyce, when it comes down to it, believes in a god that’s more loving than hateful/vengeful/pitiless/merciless…
Or might even be realizing that a god worth revering would not make the hateful, spiteful demands that people like Becky’s jerkass dad invoke in “God’s” name — the problem with people like Ross is that they believe in a small, petty, venomous deity.
Okay, too good. Can’t be truth. That’s David “Damn You” Willis, not Mike’s mom.
Either Joyce lies (like Billie about cold turkey), or a meteor falls on them in a few seconds.
So just a quick question to clarify something, Willis — are we to accept that all characters in DoA are 18 years of age or older? I ask because I know that some people — like myself — were still 17 years old during much if not all of their first semester in college.
I posted something earlier that may have been considered “questionable” because it included URL’s so I will try again without the URL’s. The Walkypedia lists storylines for the previous comic in the Walkyverse, called “Joyce and Walky”. But the Joyce and Walky comics that I read on the site of the same name do not match up in content–to be brief, Walkypedia lists a whole lot of superhero-type stuff going on during periods when all I see in the strip is cutesy domestic stuff about Joyce and Walky. Mind you, there is superhero stuff going on earlier in Joyce and Walky, but all the stuff about their wedding being delayed by Walky getting stranded in another dimension doesn’t seem to appear in the strip, only in the Walkypedia description. Could someone enlighten me about this?
Most of the Joyce and Walky strips are available by paid subscription only, specifically only one strip a week is available free, and those aren’t usually connected to the main Joyce and Walky storyline.
Actually, I’m beginning to think that kissing Kaitlin was a mistake. You should only kiss people who have the guts to not throw you under the bus when their parents find out.
I’m really curious to see how Joyce’s parents handle her growth in DOAverse. In Walkyverse, they were very one-dimensional with their insistence on grandchildren and they had lived through thinking their daughter died; found out she was alive, superpowered, and working secretly for the government; and lived through an alien invasion. Not surprisingly, their interaction with Joyce was very different than what we’ve seen here so far. Very curious to see how this develops now that they don’t have supposed-death and alien invasion to give them some perspective on what’s really important to them.
Walkyverse Browns also said something about Joyce being their last chance for grandkids. This despite the fact that she had five older brothers. We know basically nothing about them, and she only has three siblings in this universe, so I don’t think there’s a one-to-one correspondence. But I’m wondering if maybe by that point they had all come out as gay/trans/asexual or the like that eliminated in Mrs. Brown’s mind the possibility of them giving her the biological grandchildren she wanted. By the time they got to #6 apparently kissing another girl on television, they might have worked their way through, “The Bible says that what you’re doing is sinful, we just want to save you from Hell,” and, “God, what did we do to make you make all our children gay?” and gotten to, “Welp, figures.” “Now, now, Carol, there’s always in vitro fertilization.”
Heck no. Some characters have different parents. In other parts of the Walkyverse, Amber has a slew of half-siblings including Faz; in the Dumbiverse, she is an only child (according to Word of God, i.e., Willis) yet Faz still exists.
Joyce, you surprised me more than I can put into words. You saw through your past, and unfortunate cultural programming, to accept your best friend as she comes. I’m so glad Becky had you to come to in her darkest hour. 😀
That expression on Joyce is priceless. Frankly, the reason I bother to read anything is the chance to see these moments, when Joyce is basically forced to choose between Becky and her beliefs, and she chooses Becky. Becky is her best friend since forever and nothing else matters. Not all the Jesus crap, all the Christian preaching, over all that, she would go to hell for Becky.
I find it a bit odd for her to be smiling and crying and looking up at the same time… Just looks really creepy, like she doesn’t believe anything she’s saying.
She is smiling in agony. She just realized, that she can no longer dismiss lesbianism as a mistake, and that she have to accept Becky as she is. Deep inside, her perfect little Christian world is crumbling and falling apart.
“It’s not given to people to judge what’s right or wrong. People have eternally been mistaken and will be mistaken, and in nothing more than in what they consider right and wrong.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
“The true meaning of Christ’s teaching consists in the recognition of love as the supreme law of life, and therefore not admitting any exceptions.”
― Leo Tolstoy
Joyce should read Tolstoy. She might find a way to wrestle her faith away from the dogma of her upbringing.
Thank you. Seriously, WHY is it that everyone uses the bible and GOD as a way to justify not liking someone? Seirously, I think ‘God Tolerates Gays’ as some people call it because they don’t try to make him sound like some sort of omniscient tyrant. Seriously, thats what I think whenever I see people judging others and using their religion as a justification. i’m sorry, but with how I was taught on the religious works, I don’t see him as a guy who would be that mean. I think after over…oh…6000 or so years of human existance and other cultures outside of CHristianity, I think he can be OK with it.
I think it would be amazing if Joyce convinced her parents to take in Becky, but I don’t expect this to happen – it’s a (somewhat) happy ending, and happy endings in this comic just don’t happen.
I think that most gay people aren’t so much afraid as they are…wary. Cautious. Perhaps even minorly paranoid. If they have the slightest comprehension, they understand they’ve been thrown into a hostile environment, so they have to learn certain skills to throw predators off the scent, as it were. Most don’t take chances unless they’re onto a sure thing, and even then they can be guarded and distant.
Interesting thought. Joyce’s parents, although judgemental and repressive are not bad people at heart. However for them, Joyce making friends with an atheist was scary enough, I don’t think they’re ready to shelter her newly gay best childhood friend even if they were fond of her. They may already know about Becky if her Dad is close to them. Joyce should go to her brother for help.
I had a realization like this once. I grew up in an alcoholic household and to this day I still struggle with not viewing alcohol as evil and seeing people who drink as bad people. The same view extended to drugs, but even more extreme because I’d never been around them and they were illegal. (I don’t think I’ll ever be comfortable around either, but that’s not the point.)
And the man who mentored me throughout high school and taught me the craft I would one day pursue as a career suggested me trying out new things at college and I mentioned being worried over alcohol or drugs in my dorm room due to a roommate. And he told me I needed to relax more about it (he was from an alcoholic household and a recovering alcoholic, too) and try some things. I think he was trying to push me too much, but then he said that he’d even tried drugs at one point in college.
My brain basically short-circuited. I had two opposing beliefs: drugs and people who do drugs are inherently bad AND my mentor was a good person. But I had just found out he had done drugs. One of those beliefs had to be wrong. I decided it was the first one.
*me hugs Willis* I know getting through that couldn’t have been easy man, and I get the feeling that you were happily crying doing this particular strip as much as we have been reading it.
Loading ...
*motorboat noises*
sorry
(not sorry)
This guy^
…Sex Criminals reference?
You can tell she’s thinkin about it
You can see the hint of a smile there on Becky’s face.
we were all thinking about it
You deserved first comment more than anyone else here
this was only first comment there could have been, anything else wouldn’t have been good enough
I’ll just leave this here.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/belong-here/
What would be the male equivalent of this, I wonder? My buddy is depressed his coming out to his family went badly, so I –his straight friend– console him by rubbing his face in my junk?
Girls are lucky; they get WAY more plausible deniability!
I think you’re not realizing the amount of body contact a good hug provides.
aaaawwww
jocey i just want to strangle her sometimes but then I want to squeeze her so tight with hugs…..ugh….that thin line….
Coming from Cheryl, that line is even thinner.
IKR?!…….Sploosh
Phrasing. Boom.
Also holy crap second comment?!
Joyce’s eyes are the eyes of someone who’s realising a lot of things. Not all of them good…
“Hey, you can stop looking at my chest now, Becky”
“Hell no I’m staying here forever.”
“I could just crawl into them and be safe forever.”
Fixed it for ya.
Gonna through one of these in there. talk about iorny
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/01-move-in-day/forget/
You want to talk about Irony?
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/get-ready/
It’s amazing how much his style has changed since then.
I fully expect Joyce to break up with Ethan the next time she sees him, it won’t be pretty.
I’m hoping she does actually. I hope this makes her realize she doing basically the same thing Becky’s dad was doing in trying to “Fix” him.
The difference is, Ethan wants to be “fixed” (at least in DoA), while Becky isn’t. There was no harm in Joyce trying to fix Ethan. That said, since it isn’t something you can fix, she is trying in vain.
I usually ship Joyce+Dorothy, but I’ll accept to sail on bor of the Joyce+Becky too.
Even if Ethan wants to, I’m not sure there’s really “no harm” in trying to “fix” him.
Well, as long as he can say “No thanks, that’s enough” to Joyce, they can try all the fixing they want, and it’s all good. (presumably the “fixing” would involve premarital hanky-panky, in the name of the greater good)
The problem thing with “fixing” gay people is 1. When you are forcing someone, 2. It doesn’t actually work.
If Joyce doesn’t figure out how cruel “fixing” Ether would be all by herself, then I think the Becky will be extremely happy to fix her on that score. I’m pretty sure that Becky would take the chance to make clear to Ethan’s parents what can happen to parents who continue to insist on “fixing” their gay children. I also think that Becky, being Becky, will (a) recognize Ethan as gay, and (b) have some words with him about coming out and staying out.
I wouldn’t say there’s NO harm, but Ethan’s active participation makes it a very different situation. That and, she’s his peer with no abilities to discipline him or leave him homeless if he doesn’t want to be ‘fixed’ or fails at it.
I think Joyce also sticks with Ethan because he’s safe. She’s always been taught sex is evil and, with what happened at the party and with Joe, that idea has only been reinforced (and probably mixed with a hefty dose of fear). So while she probably still has an idea of “fixing” him, I think she’s more with him because she feels he’s someone she can be with without fear.
Maybe she won’t just “break up” with him — if she accepts him instead of trying to use him, maybe that could help Ethan to accept himself.
No, those are the eyes of some one who is about to shut down or
explode.
Good girl, Joyce!
She looks scared, and she SHOULD: this is pretty huge. For someone of Joyce’s basic integrity, there is NO going back from this. She tries to find a safe neutral ground first. Then hesitates. Stammers.
And then rejects one of the most important tenets she grew up with, the one so-called Christians most often use to deny others the love and charity that should be the heart of their religion, and is the heart of Joyce.
Sorry Becky couldn’t help you stay true to your pre-college self, Joyce. But trust me: one day you’ll see that she gave you something much better.
This post is so beautiful.
Indeed!
That’s beautiful. You should be a writer or something.
…wait…
I see what you did there
yeah.. THE D(ildo)
Not what she used to be, but I guess not to the point of “broken” as Sarah is expecting. But getting there.
I’m really scared what she means by Becky’s mistakes. Please Willis don’t do this again. All of these relationships are going reasonably well, and I just know you will destroy them when the time comes. I will already be crying when Shortpacked! ends. Give us some time her please!
Not locking the door was probably a mistake.
But it looms like it may be turning out for the best.
I’d say that this loving and generous version of Christianity has always been part of Joyce’s beliefs. In fact, in the showdown over her friendship with Dorothy, Joyce reminded her parents that *they* were the ones who instilled that belief in her. So Becky is actually helping Joyce see what it truly means to stand up for what she believes . . . even though it forces her to break with some of the lesser dogma, so to speak. : ) Joyce is following the Golden Rule, which is supposed to trump all the others, right?
“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
Also Deut. 6:4-9, Matthew 22:34-40 and Mark 12:28-34.
If Joyce has decided that this is not a mistake on Becky’s part, then she hasn’t got any way to avoid her change of heart.
🙁
No, no! It’s 🙂 !!! For once in your life, it’s 🙂 !!!!
Not yet.
Dammit, you made me re-realize that the Willis Pain Train has no breaks…
After every pleasant peak comes emotional troughs teeming with torrents of trauma.
Cardinal rule of fiction. If your characters aren’t put through hell, it’s not good writing.
YES! No going back now Joyce, you’ve had the revelation!
with the reboot picture it just makes it even more perfect.
Ethan did too at one time, timemonkey.
Ethan did what too?
Had a revelation!
That he likes dudes?
Mhm. And that it’s fine to like dudes.
It’s quite enjoyable actually.
Mhm. My point is he backtracked at some point and that’s what I’m worried about.
He didn’t actually. He’s pretending otherwise to regain control of his life but his thing with Joyce is nothing more than a lie to the general public.
“Don’t worry, I’ll find a good boy to make things better for you, Becky”
“I think my brother Joshua is single. That’d be sorta like dating me, right?”
Closer than you think!
Oh geez, that’s where this is going isn’t it XD It would be kind of perfect. Like in Twelfth Night when Olivia fell for Viola dressed as a guy, only to find she had a brother who looked just like her.
SPOILERS
FROM FOUR HUNDRED YEARS AGO.
Spoiler: Odysseus gets home and kills Penelope’s suitors
Eh, that’s how all Shakespeare’s comedies turn out.
(Spoiler for the tragedies: SPOILER)
Phone can’t read mousover text, so let me guess: everybody dies at the end?
Not entirely accurate, but enough to be amusing…
Fairer to say that everyone the audience cares about dies, leaving Fortinbras and his ilk to mop up the blood.
“Hello everyone, I’m ba— what the fuck happened here?”
Horatio survives.
I think Jocelyn’s straight… Then again, I thought the same about Danny.
D’awww.
AWESOME! ! 😀
YAY JOYCE!! 😀
When you’re being compared to Billie you may have a situation on your hands.
Joyce will have to work on the chest a LOT if she’s gonna be Billy 2. Also see if she can become at least half asian and put on some weight.
I hate to break it to you, but in most situations, “work on the chest” and “put on some weight” are the same thing [for people with boobs].
Great, she can kill two birds with one stone. Bring in the ham trucks.
I feel like Joyce might be 2nd after Billie already (of the main cast) in that department? Well, maybe Amber is actually. Not sure.
Honestly, as a self proclaimed perv, I say that Joyce is actually kinda Busty. I think amber is too but honestly I think Joyce is either TIED or actually bustier. It’s weird cuz I don’t like joyce but I like boobs. Gettin’ a feelin’ so complicated.
Oh cmon, we both know that the Amazi-Rack is best
Clearly, a Dumbing of Age Slipshine Special Christmas series is needed to settle this once and for all.
Deck the halls with dick and balls!
falalalala, lalala no.
I mean I could always draw that, but it wouldn’t be official unless Willis does it.
Looking at the group pictures it looks like Billie and Joyce are about the same bustiness, Joyce just doesn’t show it off. And Amber is actually noticeably bigger than either of them.
I don’t think the amazi-rack is that big. I think Amber’s smaller and Billie’s biggest. I’m also using the slipshines as a mental reference.
Joyce is crying. Are those happy tears or sad tears?
I think, and I hope, they are, “Reassessing My World View” tears.
Gods, I hope so. I really really hope so.
That may be the case, but that kind of reassessment is a very long journey that for many of us takes years and many, many events that force us to confront the real implications of our viewpoints over and over again.
Many events: Well, this isn’t the first event for Joyce. There was defending Dorothy to her parents. There is her relationship with Ethan, and her growing realization that he will never be able to love her as she would hope. On a more minor level, there is just living every day with people who have lifestyles outside of what she would consider acceptable, and her not turning into a super judgmental evil bongo. *cough*Mary*cough*
As far as time… Yes, in the real world, this is true. But things get compressed in fiction. For which we should be glad! If not compressed, given how slow time passes in these comics compared to us in the real world, we’d all be dead and in the grave before Joyce underwent any fundamental growth. 😛
Depends on if that was an honest no or just a reassuring one. One heralds a world-view shake-up, the other just heralds a “please forgive me” prayer.
Mixture of both I would say.
This is going to cost me but I can’t not stick up for you tears.
She does love her, just not romantically.
Neither. Becky just REALLY needs a shower.
“Holy crap, Becky, how much HAVE you been farting today, anyway?”
I never stopped…
The truth is revealed: Becky is actually a sentient fart.
M. Night Shyamalan, is that you?
But is she sapient?
Indeed. Those words get confused way too much.
“That’s my secret, Joyce… I’m ALWAYS farting.”
They aren’t happy or sad tears…their tears of pain. Becky just bit down on the nipple a little too hard.
So… good end?
Until Kaitlin shows up and thinks Joyce stole her lover.
Everyone knows childhood friend beats out dorm roomate. Face it Kaitlin. You were just a gateway lesbian.
Is the male version just “gayteway”?
oh god that quote with bowie pic = perfect
This^
If the previous page means anything then Kaitlin kind of left Becky out to drown in this drama sea all on her own. She has no claim to that sweetness.
THIS.
I don’t think anything she could’ve done would’ve helped Becky (except, y’know, locking the door), and trying might have just gotten her dragged down, too.
From what I read of Kaitlin’s expression, she didn’t look too happy about how things turned out. So, I’m assuming Kaitlin probably has a fairly religious family, is going to a religious school, and was caught doing something that has caused religious families to outright disown and remove all support from their children.
Standing up for what she and Becky were doing in that situation would have meant risking ending up in a similar situation, ostracized from family and community and given no personal support. Or treated as if she is corrupted by sin and needs to be “educated.” It’s a horrible thing to face, and risking losing the people you’ve known all your life for someone you’ve known a few weeks is a difficult path to choose.
I’m not saying that Kaitlin’s decision is the right thing to do, or the best thing for her to do. But she’s human, just as human as Ethan, and she may be trying to protect what little security she can.
Kaitlin may have caved, but that kind of social pressure is hard to fight back against, fear is a great motivator. It’s easy to judge from the safety of distance, but if put in that spot you might you don’t have courage to stand up.
Given time, I’m sure Kaitlin will realise she’s living a lie, just as Ethan will too – particularly as hopefully after this Joyce will work out she shouldn’t be enabling him – but it takes time.
It’s hard to tell in advance what people will do when they’re put into the crucible. Kaitlin and Becky were probably raised in much the same way. One caved; one did not. Becky will now have to live on her own, without family support. And Kaitlin will live with her choice for the rest of her life. Will she admit to herself that she failed? Or will she bury it under piles of self-righteous homophobia?
I heard a woman speak at PFLAG once, who had buried her lesbian truth in college due to her religious family. Went on to marry a man and have kids. Finally, in her 40s, she couldn’t deny it any longer. Much more collateral damage to everyone, doing it that way.
The situation isn’t an easy one but, it kind of seemed like Kaitlin blamed Becky to save face. “claiming she’s a bad influence” In the same comic where Joyce with arguably the same background defended Dorothy to her parents. Even now, even though Joyce isn’t gay she’s still on Becky’s side. Which means she’s at the very least a better friend than Kaitlin. I sympathize with Kaitlin but no…that’s not okay.
Assuming Kaitlin actively threw Becky under the bus. It could just as easily have been Kaitlin’s parents assuming it was all Becky’s fault, and Kaitlin not having the brass ovaries to stand up for herself.
Also, I’m not entirely sure that Joyce isn’t bi. She’s a little too obsessed with Sal for me to think she’s entirely straight, but at the same time she’s clearly attracted to Ethan’s chest, so….
I wanted to blame Kaitlin but honestly even if she did actively betray Becky I find it rather hard to blame her. If she had not she might be in Becky’s position now and that is not something everyone can survive. What if Kaitlin has nobody outside her home support network at all?
What she did was wrong from a philosophical standpoint but noone does the right thing 100% of the time and ultimately, being in her position, I can’t imagine most people would make the right choice. Not everyone has the luxury to oppose their parents.
I don’t see why it’s hard to recognize that the two things are not necessarily in conflict. On the one hand, there was a huge risk in doing the right thing. On the other hand, taking responsibility for your actions is part and parcel of being an adult.
Kaitlin chickened out. Worse, she hurt Becky very directly by blaming her for something which would not have happened without mutual attraction. At the very least, she could have said something neutral like “I would like to be moved out of that room in order to avoid any future temptation.” That would at least not have deliberately paint Becky as the only person involve in Kaitlin’s ‘sin’.
Taking responsibility for her actions is not exactly a relevant thing here.
Not yet. She’s still without a place to stay, and “dormroom floor” isn’t likely to cut it.
I’m sure Ruth can think of something.
She can sleep with Joyce. Platonically.
She could sleep in Billy’s bed since Billy is going to sleep in Ruth’s bed
Inflatabeds or camp pallets are extremely cheap and can be easily stowed during the day. Getting Sarah to agree to a third person in the room would be much harder.
Hoo-boy! That’s an understatement!
I gotta point out that the next storyline’s title is “Three’s a Crowd”.
Where do you see this? Magical notes I don’t know where to look for?
It’s in the archives already. Dropdown menu on the left just above the Slipshine ad is the most readily accessible place.
Is Sarah letting Becky in on her soft side? 😀
I think she’d rather be on Joyce’s soft side. Ohwait that’s where she is right now.
… speaking of Slipshine ads.
Does that mean that the storyline starts tomorrow?
No, Willis always tells us when a chapter ends.
Nah, it just means that the next storyline starts sometime in the three months of buffer Willis has uploaded already. He has to create the chapter in order to upload strips into it.
Because of the depth of the buffer Willis runs, there have been a few times when there’s been more than one future storyline title visible there. For example, there was a month or so when we were still in Teenage Churchmouse that stubs for both Up All Night and Whiteboard Dingdong Bandit were in the archives.
… which I still think is going to be the Amber/Ethan/Danny storyline. Ooh – potential poly family in DoA? Is that new ground for Willis?
That would make me…
So happy. Healthy poly relationships solve everything.
It may be both. The current storyline title, “When Somebody Loved Me”, seems to apply not only to the revelation of Becky’s romantic love for Joyce and Joyce putting her love of Becky ahead of her indoctrination, but also Dorothy’s confession of love to Walky and his bungled response to that, and Billie and Ruth finding each other to love (and bang silly) in the middle of their respective messes. There have been others that seem multi-layered like that. Willis is a lot better at titles than I am.
(I ship the hell out of Amber/Danny/Ethan, too, even though, unlike apparently everyone else, the revelation of Danny’s sexuality hasn’t made me like him more, and I have no prurient interest in seeing dudes bang.)
Getting Sarah to agree to a second roomie for more than a day or two: difficult.
Getting Sarah to agree to a second roomie for a day or two, while they check out any local resources for GLBT youth with craptastic families: probably pretty easy.
This is the woman who went to a frat party with a bat on the off chance that Joyce would get into trouble, after all. She’s grumpy, but she cares.
ANYTHING ?
Even…GOD???
Becky IS god 😀
Says your grav!
Our baby’s growin’ up.
Joyce is taking this much better than I thought she would. I mean, the eyes in the last panel suggest otherwise, but it seems to be a mostly positive encounter.
Or I could be naive and have to cry out “DAMN YOU WILLIS” once more.
No, this is her true nature, and always has been. She is so sweet!
Aww, looks like joyce really developed as a good person/character 🙂
I think she always was. I don’t understand how anyone can hate her. She’s working with a lifetime of lies, here. I think her worldview is actually progressing at an admirable rate.
More like a breakneck rate–as does a lot of reevaluation, to be honest. Realizations hit like a brick, but man does it relieve a lot of stress in the end to be honest to who you are.
That’s my take. Joyce is a good person, who’s been taught a lot of wrong and/or bad things.
This. The hate that got directed at her was really better suited to her environment and education. Now that she’s out of it, her true nature, always there, is slowly burning away the crud that’s been dumped on her.
She’s getting better for sure.
I used to hate her, but she’s slowly learning about the world. It’s a good thing.
Joyce, I can not describe how proud of you I am. I’m voting Becky as great character, because you are the greatest character. You’re awesome, and I will never ever take that back, because fuck yea you are great.
Man, isn’t Joyce awesome?
Meh. Hippos are better.
She only appears great because she spent so much time being awful. Sierra’s always been awesome.
Give and take I guess.
Sierra is awesome because she was raised by awesome people.
Joyce was raised by crazy passive-aggressive jerks and, in this moment, she manages to be awesome anyway. She is a hero in her time.
So Joyce is Paarthurnax, got it.
I dunno who that is. I was actually making an obscure biblical reference to Noah, but sure, why not!
A Dragon in Skyrim who unlike all of his kin does not consider all other sentients as simply talking food.
Well, as far as I could tell the dragons of Skyrim didn’t need to eat, since they were the embodiment of the primal forces of creation, so actually they really viewed as sentients (and mammoths and giants) as TARGET Practice.
One of the best moments of my life was when I lured a dragon into a herd of mammoths. Stomp-stomp-stomp hehehe
I love Joyce so, so much. I mean, I disagree with 90% of everything she says, but gdi if she isn’t such a good person and that’s way more important.
This is why I love Joyce. It would be so easy to make her a parody of her beliefs, but she really is a very good person.
Remember, Joyce is autobiographical. Willis walked a similar road… and we all know where that leads.
Joyce: future Pornlord.
+∞
Also making characters that make us damn her.
From your fingers to God’s eyes….
“Don’t make this weird, God.”
http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp09292011.shtml
…I’m surprisingly okay with this – of course, for Joyce to reach the stage where her ‘template’ is, and given the ‘extended’ timeframe of this comic, I fear it’ll be Willis’ descendent(s) doing those comics….for OUR descendents.
Beliefs vs principles, it’s such a tough eternal struggle we all haft to go through.
Friendship IS magic!!!!!!
SMILE SMILE SMILE
Bro-hoof (or sis hoof, as the case may be)
*bump*
Aw, that last panel.
And Becky’s little smile. 🙂
I didn’t even notice that until you said it. It’s double cute now.
Well, that’s an epiphany-face, if I ever saw one. Sounds like Ethan may have to clear his calendar.
Because Joyce will stop trying to make him straight, not because she wants to date Becky. I probably should have clarified that.
Course. She’s trying to date Dotty. 😀 😀 😀
Well, we have been sorely lacking a love triangle.
…No, Danny-Amazi-girl-Amber doesn’t count. 😛
You have neglected to mention the currently blossoming Ethan-Danny-Amber situation.
But Danny-Amber-Ethan does. This one has much potential for sad things.
I choose to believe everything after Galasso’s has all been happy threesomes until I’m shown otherwise. 😀
Okay, we can get the Chain of Desire going here…
Becky wants Joyce wants Ethan wants Danny. Now, Danny’s the knot at the end of the rope, since he’s both with Amber and wants Ethan. So, in order to build the chain, we’ll need to work backwards. Who will be interested in Becky, despite her lack of reciprocation?
Joe?
No kissing you 2!
no, all kissing!
None of that either. Wait, Joyce already said she’s not that way. So no worries.
yah, she says. She also wants to be safe and warm forever, so I wouldn’t be 100% sure 😀
Hey if after being kissed by her best friend who just came out as a lesbian and turning her down saying she’s not in to her. Because she’s not a lesbian. I believe her.
She didn’t actually say that she’s not into girls; just that she’s not into Becky like that. Could be she just thinks of Becky like a sister, and all her romantic and sexual girl-love is pinned on Dorothy.
But, yes, she’s obviously not a lesbian. She fantasizes about Ethan’s manly chest, and her other-universe self is happily married to a guy, has two kids, and, from what we saw, was very enthusiastic about making them. (Joyce is, seriously, a complete horndog underneath all that repression.)
But other-universe Danny is happily married to a woman, has two kids, and, so far as we know, was very enthusiastic about making them, and we’ve also seen him fantasizing about Ethan.
And other-universe Danny’s wife made those kids the old-fashioned way, seemed quite enthusiastic about that, and we’ve actually seen her banging the hell out of Ruth in both universes.
Bisexuality is a thing, is what I’m saying.
Also, being attracted to one person of a given sex doesn’t mean that you’re attracted to everyone of that sex.
Maybe everyone in DoA is actually Ethansexual, regardless of other sexual desires? That would fit the evidence.
Nope. Jacob doesn’t want him, much as Amber and others may hope otherwise.
I don’t care about those other universes. I care only about the DoA Universe.
The DoA Universe is the one where Joyce has been following Dorothy around like she wants to go down on her and acting jealous of the time Dorothy spends with Walky, has told her parents that she loves Dorothy, has expressed a fascination with and desire to crawl into Billie’s boobs, exhibited an obvious girlcrush on Sal and her person, particularly her hair, spent a whole storyline freaking out because she thought she might be gay, and has generally been sending enough “I’m into girls” signals to lead her lifelong best friend, who knows her as well as anyone in the world, to going in for a kiss and reacting with disbelief when Joyce objected.
It’s that other universe where she’s an apparently-straight married mother.
Turning down a woman once makes you not a lesbian forever. DULY NOTED.
You really, really, REALLY can’t bury the sheer amount of interest she’s displayed in women, and while some of it I can pretty easily see out of a straight woman, not all of it (It’s okay, Joyce. Billie’s got great boobs.) And the fact that I can’t see all of it as straight makes it harder to see the things that COULD be straight, as straight.
Totally. My headcanon Joyce is at least a Kinsey 1 until shown otherwise.
Let’s not forget that up until right now, Joyce has believed that being anything other than Kinsey 0 is bad and wrong, so it’s not surprising she’d deny it (including to herself).
Aye. Though I did mispeak. I should have said “not interested in women”. Since, yanno, kinsey 1 or kinsey 2 is about where I put Joyce in my headcanon.
Those faces confuse me. It feels like she’s lying to herself a bit. But who knows, maybe it is just a nice grand revelation, and maybe Joyce’s weird pose to Sarah actually was just a weird dynamic pose.
I think Joyce is conflicted but I think she meant what she said to Becky. Just, in her mind, it’s going against her belief in God, and Joyce might be feeling surprised that Becky’s winning.
Yeah, dailybrad’s is how I read it, too, like, it’s hard when your worldview begins to change, and there’s no going back, and she’s telling Becky the truth in this important moment.
“It was a close place. I took it up, and held it in my hand. I was a trembling, because I’d got to decide, forever, betwixt two things, and I knowed it. I studied a minute, sort of holding my breath, and then says to myself:”All right, then, I’ll go to hell”- and tore it up.”
Exactly the moment.
So proud of Joyce.
Magnificent.
I’m not sure Joyce is lying, per se, but I think right now she might be believing mutually exclusive things and is feeling super conflicted. Like she believes that lesbianism cannot be okay because of Romans, but Becky cannot be wrong because of Becky. Does not compute. *blue screen of death*
I’m just saying she might be going to Mary’s bible study Wednesday, just to try and make sense of this…
Or it’s not quite that hard. I can only speak to my own path, but for some people it’s not that she believes mutually exclusive things, but she’s shifted around *who she thinks is telling her the truth.* All the people who were telling her that lesbians are evil, and that God hates the gays? She knows they were lying now. And, of course, if they were willing to lie about that…. She hasn’t had time to make it that far yet. But I suspect that’s where this road leads.
Which, hey, let’s go ahead and make a prediction and see how right I get! She’s going to realize that the bible *doesn’t* necessarily mean that God hates him some gays. She’s going to come to the conclusion that she can still believe in God and the Bible and not read it to mean what she’s been told, as lots of people do. And then, because she is wonderful and awesome but *naive as hell* she’s going to try and share her wonderful revelation with her parents who will not respond as she hopes and will instead bemoan the horrible evil liberalism her horrible evil liberal college professors have instilled in her. Jocelyn will probably be involved and the drama hurricane will hit category 5.
Or… she thinks that she will go to hell for this. For real, no joking at all. But her best friend is worth it.
Character development for the win!
Long awaited character development.
Have we been reading the same strip? Because Joyce has been developing for a while now.
Slow process bro.
Fair enough. I did kinda start just reading. So the development went by pretty seamlessly on my end.
Who wouldn’t smile with a face full of boobies?
Ethan
I dunno… I’ve met gay guys who love boobs. Just not sexually. But seriously, boobs! BOOBS!
Boobs are hilarious, they’re all bouncy and squishy!
How do you not love boobs? They’re boobs!
I don’t even like Joyce that much and I’d like that :P.
she could crawl up into them and be safe and warm forever
All we need now is to convince Dotty to join in and the OT3 will be complete.
This pleases me
The Holy Trinity OTP!
Crying Joyce…
Here’s hoping it’s “crying because of worldview shattering into a zillion pieces and abandoning safety of preconceived notions”, not “crying from anguish of lying to best friend”.
Or Crying over the lives of her fallen enemies. (she’s crying because they were worthy advesaries and she respects them as warriors).
That is also my hope (and fear). Please Joyce, for the sake of Becky and Billie both – don’t mess this up.
I hope so, too. But even if it is a lie, it is an interesting development. Has Joyce ever been shown willing to tell such a lie before, even to spare the feelings of her best friend? And (if it is a lie) it is the sort that, in the telling, could lead to her realizing that the implied truth of it might not be so bad.
But I prefer to think (until Willis shows otherwise, if he does) that it is not a lie.
Joyce is going through a lot lately.
First, she stood up to her folks for Dorothy. She did so without compromising her beliefs, but it would have been easier for her not to do so. It showed a willingness to at least be open about associating with people different from herself, and not seeing such associations as wrong.
More recently, she is realizing she has no future with Ethan, at least not the kind she might want. He can care about her, but not in the way she would like.
And now, she is faced with the person she does love and care about the most being hurt by inflexible fundamentalist views, views she herself would have subscribed to herself. If she holds onto those views, she will be culpable in hurting Becky. And hurting Becky is thee last thing she wants to do!
Joyce is starting to question, if not her own beliefs, at least her rigidity in seeing her beliefs as the only way. Joyce, even if only as a friend, will stick by Becky.
(Now, to truly break Joyce’s old world view, she should meet her sister, Jocelyn!)
Joyce hates lying as much as she hates homosexuality.
I think Becky would’ve been able to tell if Joyce was lying. And lookit Becky’s smile! Joyce is telling the truth.
Well, hopefully she is starting to hate at least one of those somewhat less!
Maybe she’ll start lying about being a homosexual to make Becky feel better! I mean, It’s working for Ethan.
That’s not that comforting. Joyce is not incapable of lying (dingdong bandit!) It just means that if Joyce did lie here, she has all the more reason to despair and spiral further into self-hatred because of her sinful thoughts and actions.
But it means if she’s lying to Becky here, she’s not actually standing by her beliefs. She’s just violating them in a way that requires her to hate her best friend instead of a way that allows her to continue to love her. That seems rather pointless as well as being uncharacteristic of Joyce.
How is it out of hate? If she is lying (and that’s a big “if,” because I don’t think she is) she’d doing it because of love. Because she recognizes that, in this case, the alternative would be the hurtful thing. And Becky is someone Joyce does not want to hurt. Therefore, I believe that if it is a lie, it is because Joyce recognizes that in this case it is the truth that is wrong, and that will lead Joyce to reexamining what her truths are, and if some of them need adjusting.
Actually, I’m pretty sure all she said was “Someone needs to get to the bottom of the case of the ding-dong bandit!” and “IT WASN’T DOROTHY”
That’s not really a fair representation of what she said.
Her first statement about homosexuality being no worse than lying is attempting to see it through the eyes of the Bible — how God sees sins, and she says she has no reason to believe homosexuality is any worse a sin than any other one, even ones considered relatively small like ‘lying’.
Now unrelated to that, she personally hates lying.
Joyce came out looking for Becky. Actions speak louder than words and all that.
AWwww, hugs.
Joyce’s heart always wins.
Tell that to Ethan.
probably that will get re-evaluated shortly.
Already being re-evaluated, if you recall the last time we saw the two of them together. She knows he can (and possibly does) love her… but in what way?
I hope this leads to Joyce and Ethan ending it… But I hope that in doing so, they don’t stop being there for each other. They’re a great pair… as friends!
Let her deal with her cognitive dissonances one person at a time.
Of course, the other shoe is gonna drop once it’s brought up that Joyce is basically treating her “boyfriend” with the same mindset Becky’s parents are treating her.
Oh wow, yeah. But hey, one epiphany could lead to another… maybe she’ll realize that on her own?
Exactly, I honestly don’t think Joyce has had any revelations just yet. Shit is going to hit the fan and I really do think that Joyce is going to be the one that’s going to take it the hardest. Her world has just begun to shatter in that last panel
To be fair, she was already figuring out what she was doing with Ethan wasn’t the most moral thing to do.
I don’t think she was really tying to turn him strait. That was her reason she gave to people for staying with him but I think it was a cover so she was able to date this guy whom she didn’t have to worry about touching her.
Absolutely – and it’s worth remembering that Ethan came to her, not the other way around. Everything she’s said about their relationship since she found out he’s gay serves to justify HIS decision of being in a straight relationship despite being gay. In a way she’s just being loyal like a good girlfriend should be.
Not that it makes their relationship the best of ideas of course, but it’s THEIR mistake, not Joyce’s. (It can be argued that it’s more Ethan’s mistake)
The difference is that Ethan wanted her to help him avoid his gayness. Still a bad idea but at least it’s with his knowledge & consent.
And of course another big reason is to help her avoid her own desires since she knows he won’t reciprocate (that one’s pretty doomed too).
Remember, a big part of her thing with him is that he is “safe”. He is a big, strong dude that will protect her, and won’t try to rape her. She isn’t really trying to change him.
Not quite. There is a big difference between sending someone off to straight boot camp, and trying to tempt someone to the het side by snuggling your cute curvy body against him. I mean, neither one will achieve the desired result, but the latter is a lot less nasty. Heck, when word gets around, you will see some straight guys pretending to be gay so Joyce can try to “fix” them, wheras no one in their right mind volunteers for straight boot camp.
*sniff* Group hug, everyone!
*bawls and hugs you tearfully*
group hug!
<3
{{}}
All the people worried about the tears you know you can cry when you’re happy, right?
You can also cry when you eat something sour, yawn, have something in your eye, get kicked in the nuts, eat something spicy, Find out that you’re not the legendary super saiyan, and when you’ve eaten something that just doesn’t taste very good.
Joyce isn’t a super Saiyan?! And or got kicked in the nuts? That is shocking!
In a metaphorical sense, she has been kicked in the idealogical nuts. Not for the first time, either.
Yeah, but it’s the tears mixed with the face in the previous panel, and a little bit of a Pavlovian-like response to the twist and turns of a Willis story.
Sorry, lifetime of religious indoctrination, you can take a hike.
“Even Monkey Master and He’s pretty friggin’ strong!”
JOYCE MAKES THE RIGHT CHOICE
Srsly good job, Joyce. Her kindness will always win out.
And with that gesture, Joyce restored my faith – in her.
This happened with my best friend and I, only he was Joyce and I was Becky, and he said something very similar to that. This made me feel so damned happy lol, damn you Willis, I’m in tears!
I’m glad you have such a good friend! ^.^
Ethan’s done a good job of showing her how gay people are “normal” which she’s mentioned before, that some of her stances have changed, but this is a double whammy. Not only is it homosexuality, it’s in the face of religious institutions like Becky’s school or the parents she’s been around for years likely, so it’s a lot to process, but I do think she means it when she says she puts Becky first.
THERE IS SOMETHING IN MY EYE
…IT IS TEARS
I wanted to like this but this isn’t Facebook so instead I have to comment that I like your comment.
I too must comment-o-like but I will respond to your comment to preserve it as an organic chain of liking things.
And yeah, this made me tear up a little bit, which annoying; I’m tryna pretend I ain’t got any feelings over here.
YOU THOUGHT IT WAS TEARS BUT IT WAS I, DIO.
IT WAS ME, BARRY! ME!
Joyce cares about the right things.
Becky! Get the hell away from her! If you get caught in the midst of her character growth your skull might be crushed!
….That’s how that works, right?
Sometimes in some ways ya.
The heart, even when growing three sizes, usually remains contained within the chest cavity.
Imagine Joyce’s *teeth* growing three sizes.
Now that we’ve had this supremely affirming moment, I’m even more worried that Becky is just dropping in and we’re not going to see her again for a while.
Willis, can we keep her?
Well, she’s not exactly going home, now is she?
Not voluntarily.
No, but she may be going to a shelter. Unless IU has a “deus ex machina” scholarship lying around.
A blanket and pillow, under the desk. Nice and warm, between Joyce’s legs…
the feels!
*takes a deep breath*
ok. How is Willis going to ruin this moment?
Ross pulls up, having correctly deduced where Becky would run off to.
…In the passenger seat, a nice young preacher’s son, who Ross has decided to hire to assist in Becky’s ‘rehabilitation’…
…Ok, I’m terrifying myself now. That face, though. It haunts my dreams.
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
*cough*cough* Ethan *cough*
The cracks in her fundamentalist state of mind should reach critical mass anytime now. No pun intended.
What’s wrong with sleeping under a desk? When I was living in my college’s dorms, I put my mattress under the desk and then I had extra storage space as a result. It was also much easier to get to bed rather than a bunk bed.
Aww! Friendship wins for Joyce! And Becky so needs a good friend right now.
And she’s finally showing some of her grown up self here. My least favorite thing about DoA’s been watching Joyce be an idiot again. Please don’t backslide again!
Just how many hippos are there in Joyce’s life?
Well she DOES know Billie.
(I’m sorry, DOA doesn’t have a lot of “fat” people so Billie gets all the fat jokes)
This storyline is going to explode in the most beautiful of ways.
Thank you Willis.
Oh Gods.
*reaches for a tissue*
Now I wonder what she’ll do about Ethan.
Good job panel 4. I trust you will help greatly in the future.
I especially like how panel 4 is without background.
Joyce is actually the best <3
Now pit Becky against Dorothy.
Who will Joyce choose?
Walky.
But she hates him.
They bicker. When two people bicker like they do, and aren’t in a relationship, odds are they will be.
She only spend time together because of Dororhty and Joyce’s rape trauma. There’s no respect between them.
So, I guess Joyce has a few things to talk to Ethan about now, huh.
BLESS YOU WILLIS
Hurray for Joyce!
But what you got against hippos, Willis? 😀
They’re mean!
Seriously. They kill crocodiles for jollies.
Hippos kill more people every year than any other African animal (except mosquitoes). I thought everyone knew that.
I thought Buffalo where higher? To the googlemotron!
Cursory search seems you are right, hippos are on top. Will look for peer-reviewed or otherwise credible sources later…
All I know is that Steve Irwin likes pestering alligators and jumping into sharks’ personal space, but when he sees hippos, he goes the other way.
“Liked.”
And no one had “stingray” in the betting pool. What a waste.
;n;
I have to pick a fight with any animal at all, hippo would be last of the list. Most bears or sharks or elks or what-have-you would just get bored and walk away. The hippo would stomp at my head, drown me, belch and then walk away.
On the other hand, I would place Quetzalcoatlus at the top of mine. Zombies aren’t fun. Zombies of creatures with heads twice the size of a T. Rex’s and ridiculous flying speeds are even less fun.
After all this time, they’d be skeletons, not zombies. Fossilized skeletons. Which, while wicked cool, probably don’t fly all that well.
Quetzalcoatlus don’t need to fly. They can, but they are terrestrial stalkers, like marabou storks.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/tetrapod-zoology/2013/12/15/terrestrial-stalking-in-azhdarchid-pterosaurs-challenged/
Those mother fuckers have sharp ass teeth too. Like you think they’re all flat and shit. NO. They’re god damn sharp and LARGE.
Bite a canoe clean in half…
They also swirl thier poop around with thier tails. It’s natures equivalent of shit hitting a fan.
They’re all right as long as they aren’t blowing bubbles and flicking their ears.
Joyce is prevailing against hippo-cracy quite nicely, though.
Hippos are terrifying murderbeasts, and they will destroy all that you love.
Also, they’re bigger than geese.
I think they kill more people in Africa than any big animal beside buffalo. They are way up on the list anyway.
That’s one of the many things I love about following this strip and the comments: I learn things.
They kill like 2900 people annually. Sharks? Single digits, worldwide.
There is a higher risk worldwide of getting bitten by a NewYorker than a shark (not news to anyone who’s lived in New York of course). I wonder how hippos rank.
Humans in New York appear to kill about 300-400 humans a year.
Hippos kill about 2,900 a year.
Hippos are about an order of magnitude more dangerous than New Yorkers.
This strip makes up for how heartbreaking the last, like, TWO WEEKS have been. Good work, Willis.
I wonder if Joyce views her acceptance of Becky as a sinful act. I think she’s telling the truth but she has a lot of conflicted feelings about it that she knows better than to dump on poor Becky.
My heart goes out to these girls. Becky really, really needed that.
Has Joyce said something like “win every time” before? That was the phrase she used when she told her parents she would keep hanging out with Dorothy because she believed Jesus would approve, right? So maybe Joyce is realizing in the last panel that she might have been unintentionally lying/not telling the whole truth back then, and she really is letting secular affection outweigh her old beliefs.
Hmmm, I checked and that wasn’t it. I could swear I’ve seen that phrase before in a Willis comic, though. Maybe it was in Shortpacked? Anyway, the sentiment still stands; Joyce might be realizing that, no, she totally will consider her friends before she thinks about the scriptural ramifications.
Alternate unlikely interpretation: Joyce may be interpreting these events as a divine sign? She was asking God for a sign and he sent her the one thing that could have made her 100% sure that it couldn’t be wrong to be gay.
It sounds like something Robin might have said to Leslie, but I’m not sure.
I agree, the phrase rings a bell, rather strongly but I can’t place it. I haven’t seen wack’d around here lately, he’d probably know…
I spent some hours in the archives for SP! and IW! but found nothing :-/
This is very heartwarming and great, but I can’t help but think this is the final nail into Joyce’s Stepford style world view.
That said I can’t wait to see more, if only I the ability to give to patreon.
Dear, Santa Willis
For Christmas I would like a months worth of being treated like a 5$ patreon backer.
I can’t quite tell what emotion Joyce is experiencing in the last panel. If I were to guess, hysteria?
I’m going with the joy of realizing your friend will be okay.
Optimism, ho!
All of them.
YES!!! Joyce! <3
I know I said Becky is the best, and she is, but Joyce is also the best!
Oh boy, you can just see the mental bombshell go off in Joyce’s head right now. I think this is one of the few times the beliefs drilled into her and her personal morals have directly clashed. Each time that happens she’s grown as a person. The only other instance of this was standing up to her parents. Now she has this, the belief that being gay is sinful and a mistake, but in seeing this situation with Becky (and Ethan too) she’s being forced to confront those beliefs. Now that she’s confronting this, and being forced to look at the despicable actions of Becky’s father and the school and everything, I think she’s going to bring a lot of her beliefs into question and grow quite a bit.
Or maybe that’s just extremely wishful thinking on my part, but hey, I can dream
Becky’s mistake was not being gay, but the person she chose to have her first gay experience with, Kaitlin.
“I will not say, do not weep, for not all tears are evil.”
The Lord of the Rings, Return of the King, Book VI, Chapter 9, “The Grey Havens”.
No, god damn it. You guys are right. This could just as easily go either way. And honestly I think Joyce is stuck in the middle right now – she realises her worldviews are shattering even faster, but she’s not willing to accept it in an instant – who would? So she lies. It’s the right thing to do. Still, it’s progress, even if it’s just baby steps. Bless you, Joyce.
She is having trouble with it, yes, but she does accept it. I don’t believe she would lie about this.
I don’t think she’s lying. If your entire worldview compels you to suddenly have to hate your best friend, having them immediately shattered is freeing, not terrifying. She is, at heart, a good person, and shattering those views means she is allowed to love everyone she wants to again.
I don’t think she’s lying either. She certainly didn’t lie to her parents when Dorothy was around. She might be a little surprised to find that she’s telling the truth, it might take her a while to fully change her views (a “what did I just say/what will God think” scene might be coming up), but I don’t think she’s lying.
Nothing I can really say, other than give a silent fistpump and “that’a’girl!”
I like to think those tears are her realizing that whats shes doing with Ethan is terrible and that she needs to make things right very soon.
Camera pulls back and we see Sarah watching through the glass doors, bat in hand. She smiles. A hint of a tear in her eye. She’s proud of Joyce.
Too.
Even if we don’t see it my headcanon is now that exactly that happened.
And the lightbulb FINALLY comes on for Joyce.
I think this moment represents a whole lot of people who are basically good, and who were raised ultra-religious. I hope that many folks reevaluate their preconceptions when faced with a living, breathing gay person whom they love, that there are people who will always choose to be kind and loving no matter what.
Becky and Joyce are helping to make the world better just by being themselves :,)
I can attest to that. Having an openly gay member may have been the best thing that ever happened to my youth group. I mean, our church was pretty accepting anyway, but having him around really brought some people to their senses, I think.
JOYCE LOOKS SO VULNERABLE RIGHT NOW AND I CAN’T BEGIN TO FATHOM HOW CONFLICTED SHE MUST FEEL AND I’M GONNA HAVE TO GO BUY ICE CREAM TO CONTINUE TO DEAL WITH THIS STORYLINE
Their friendship is wonderful. The love is back. I love everything. I love all of you, I love my dog and I love my life. I pray that I’ll have a relationship like this before I die.
I’m so proud of Joyce! :’)
I’m interested to see how she handles her relationships moving forward with this new realization.
I like Becky and I like boobs…SO….
This is sadly something I’ve been thinking about ever since yesterday when I saw this on the Patreon.
Why be sad about it? REJOICE.
DONTCHA MEAN
RE-JOYCE!?!?!
HAHA
+1 Internet to you.
That dang freshman 15.
And here I was expecting Rule 34. Oh well. Maybe next time.
Nicely done!
“BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRBBBBBBBBBBB”
As someone who loves boobs, I never understood motorboating. I just suffocate myself in them. That’d be the best funeral ever. “He died doing what he loved”.
D’awwww. Joyce is growing as a person, I’m so happy.
And Joyce’s heart grew 3 sizes that day…
then exploded.
*ALARMS GO OFF AT THE BROWN HOUSEHOLD*
“RED ALERT! JOYCE IS BREAKING FREE FROM HER PROGRAMMING! I REPEAT, JOYCE’S BRAINWASHING IS WEARING OFF! GO TO DEFCON 1 IMMEDIATELY!”
“Darn thing is on the fritz again. I mean it keeps beeping about Joshua, and he’s doing great!”
I literally laughed out loud at this. +1
She’s definitely like Billie, Joyce.
If only you knew.
but Billie isn’t a lesbian.
oh god the feels.
what why is that there?
God, are you kidding me? It was a HUGE mistake!
How could you forget to lock the door?
I’m an only child and even I make sure my door is never open. The only reason it’s not locked is cuz it can’t lock.
Eh, I walked in on my roommate and his GF one night sophmore year. Opened door, registered scene, closed door quietly, heard it lock as I left.
It’s killing me that I can’t tell if Joyce is crying because she has to lie to her best friend, or if she’s crying because she really doesn’t think what Becky did was wrong and it’s breaking her worldview. Hoping it’s the latter…
She hates lying. She loves her best friend. Maybe it’s a bit of both, but I think love is winning.
I think she may be crying because she literally thinks that she has just chosen hell, for the sake of her best friend.
The door, though…the door was definitely a mistake.
Right? We should have stopped at the window. Doors were a mistake.
Windows only! We could all be Sal!
Yes it was a mistake and it was necessary to the plot so let’s all stop ragging on them for it okay? 🙂
Oh Joyce . . . you did a really good thing.
It’s going to be interesting how they actually deal with the reality of the situation though. Joyce may actually have a better support network then she realizes among her friends and acquaintances, but there are still so many pitfalls they could fall into.
Damn you, Willis! You’re making me have The Feels™!
Things I learnt from this strip:
1. Joyce has a hippo somewhere in her life.
2. …There are other things to take from this strip?
3. Show us the hippo, Willis.
Well, it’s not a Willis comic, but this one has a hippo in it: http://www.samandfuzzy.com/945
It’s really cute when hippos wiggle their ears. Still, I’ll watch from a respectful distance, preferably from above. I’ve read that hippos are very territorial, and that more people in Africa are killed by hippos than are killed by lions. (Mainly since hippos like lurking in rivers partially submerged and it is easy for an unfortunate boatman to startle one accidentally.)
Also, because they are huge, aggressive and have foot long stabby teeth.
Fuck yes Joyce.
But yeah.. Becky totally needs to move to that place… Though I’m guessing she’s not actually in love with Joyce. Hopefully not at least it’ll make life harder for her~
and Becky’s kinda awesome
Welp, time for more angst for Joyce as she realizes her service to the Lord is imperfect.
Alternately, that she just can’t feel this way about Ethan.
This isn’t a lead in to my ship. I just mean that she doesn’t feel this way about Ethan.
The way I read her that isn’t new – people like Joyce always know they are sinner in small or large fashion but that the lords forgives. And in this situation Joyce is choosing between love and doctrine, not a tough choice, and not hard for her to justify in the eyes of the lord.
People like Mary on the other hand…
See, I think what’s what bugging me. I generally agree that, based on past characterization, Joyce wouldn’t lie like that. IF she did, it would be due to very specific circumstances (see: DingDong Whiteboard Bandit).
But Joyce is already having serious bouts of self-hate because of her ‘sinful’ thoughts and feelings, including her feelings of jealousy for those that DON’T feel guilty for ‘sinning’. She knows she’s a sinner, and that everyone sins, but even with God’s forgiveness, it’s still wrong.
Even assuming that everything she’s saying is true, that she’s picking love for her friend over the doctrine she’s been taught is the Word of God (and I really want to believe that is what is happening), I don’t think her worldview/faith is to the point where she’s not going to see what she’s doing as a sin (possibly, the worst; she’s implicitly saying ‘Becky>God’, and that’s about as bad as you can get). It’s easier to say ‘hate the sin, love the sinner’ when it’s not yourself.
So, I’m happy that Joyce is continuing to make progress, but I think things are going to get worse before they get better.
No, you are not allowed to think that. The next panel will be them riding a unicorn into the sunset.
I’m still confused to the context of Joyce’s “just made some mistakes”. Is she referring to Becky’s trip here/move on Joyce, or her whole lesbianism?
I think she’s saying it was the lesbianism… because that’s her default thought-process. But that’s why Becky called her out on it… and the impetus for Joyce to change her mind.
I know what Joyce is feeling there. I was a stooge who regurgitated everything my parents taught me for seventeen years. I spewed whatever bile they fed me without question. but slowly quandaries bubbled up in my beliefs. Each time i kicked them down, fearing the fires of hell would swallow me whole just for indulging them for a moment. One day I was loudly professing my absolute disgust at the notion of stem cell research because that was the Hot Topic(TM).
My teacher looked to me. “Shut up.” She said coldly. I looked to her and with the smug arrogance of a teenager. “what? You’re in favor of killing babies?
The hot fury she unleashed will remain with me for the rest of my life. She dismantled me on the spot. “You think you know everything? Why is stem cell research bad?” “It kills babies.” “THE EMBRYOS THAT ARE USED AREN’T FERTILIZED, IF THEY ARE THEY’RE FROZEN AND NOT GOING TO TERM.” On and on she called me out with questions and decimated me but ultimately I didn’t even want to fight her because I couldn’t.
Even I didn’t believe what I was saying, i knew nothing about it, and I’d hurt her. Because the last thing she said was “My daughter has sickle cell anemia. And that research could be the only thing to save her, HOW IS THAT WRONG?” “It’s not” I squeaked out, trying not to cry in front of my class. I loved this woman. She was like a second mother to me and now I saw her not as an angelic kind woman but as a person with problems and suddenly every issue i had ‘opinions’ about wasn’t about ‘us versus them’ but about people.
Anyhow, when Joyce is forced to say she doesn’t believe I know how painful that is. To be forced to speak the words you just can’t allow yourself to say, the guilt and torment and loathing that follows but it’s healthy. It’s the first step.
[/ramble]
That is a good story. I’m glad you had that teacher.
Um, you can’t have an embryo that isn’t fertilized. At least, not among mammals. Insects are weird that way, though.
This is true. But plenty of stem cell research is done using umbilical cords, which doesn’t hurt anyone, born or unborn, regardless of your views on abortion.
True, but the point is that stem cells from excess IVF castoffs are from just that, castoffs. They would be discarded as superfluous to requirements if they weren’t used for stem cells.
This is it, this is why fundamentalism can only exist as long as its adherents keep themselves isolated from the “sinners” they despise. You can’t maintain a pretence of “us vs them” if you let yourself realise that “they” are really “us” after all. It’s such a precise inversion of the radical welcome that biblical Christianty actually presents, and so counter to the way Jesus himself is shown to act; in fact, it’s the very thing he rails against more than anything else.
Pointing to peers who “weathered worldly temptations” or some such is survivorship bias; fundamentalists who actually do get to know people outside the bubble generally stop being fundamentalists. There’s only so much cognitive dissonance a person can handle before the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.
[/rant]
Joyce, I think, is coming to that realisation, and starting to see how harmful many of the things she’s been brought up to believe really are. She’s taken huge steps in the past few weeks, and the cracks in the dam are widening. The question now is how she responds.
Now the tricky part is how this reassessed worldview (if that’s what this actually is) rebounds onto Ethan.
Regardless of what Joyce believes, forsaking Becky goes against her conscience and going against your conscience is neither wise nor right.
When I got here 11 minutes after the comic had posted there were already 72 comments posted and after reading them all I’m going to see how many more have been posted in the meantime.
But first, I would not have given Joyce this much credit for accepting Becky and standing up for her this soon after starting college. It’s almost like someone was re-writing her personality as the comic progresses…
In other news DAMN YOU WILLIS!!
First of all… feels. So many feels. So glad they’re hugging it out now. :’)
Here’s my theory/prediction…
Dorothy comes back, sees Joyce and Becky hugging it out, asks if everything is okay. Becky’s initially hesitant to spill the beans, Joyce assures Becky friends are really smart and will know what to do. Next day Dorothy and Joyce take Becky to see Leslie and the four of them (mainly Dorothy and Leslie) talk about resources and the possibility of maybe being admitted to Indiana University. Leslie takes on a mentoring/sister role for Becky, introduces her to Ruth. Suggests they go out and do something to get Becky’s mind off of things for a short while and they go ice skating. Ruth, being a hockey fan, notices Becky is a natural at ice skating and suggests she try out for the women’s team, despite Becky’s protests that she had never played it before and so doesn’t have skates or equipment. (“Whatever, you can use mine, I don’t have time for it anymore.” “Err okay…”) Eventually Becky becomes a member of the team and is admitted to I.U on a sports scholarship.
There aren’t any characters who are athletes. (If there are, my bad. I’m still kind of reading through the archive) So it would make sense for Becky to be admitted to the university on some kind of sports scholarship after a team discovers that she has talent and a competitive/fighting spirit. Also, it hasn’t been revealed if Joyce or Becky did any sports stuff before college. They may have gone ice skating or swimming, if nothing else.
(or)
Ross shows up and shit hits the fan.
Also does Indiana University have an ice hockey team?
Also, new poster. Hi all! 🙂
Interesting theory, though kind of random? We do have a team, incidentally. I’ve been to a game. I think we have more than one (there are different levels and such, I’m not an expert).
Haha yeah, it was kinda random. (I can’t sleep, haha)
That’s really cool by the way. 🙂 Hockey rocks.
League of evil dads? And will Becky get to stay under Joyce’s desk?
Hi!
IU doesn’t have any varsity ice hockey teams, although there is a recognized club hockey team.
Ahh gotcha. Also, hi Kryss!
Mary’s a dangerous name to have around here… ha ha. But anyway, welcome! (At least you have a Roz avatar… If you had one of your namesake in the comic, that’d be too bizarre!)
I like your theory! I’d love if especially the earlier parts of it play out just as you’ve suggested.
Yeah…
What is going to happen to Becky, though? Is she transferring? Can she is she’s cut off from her parents? Will Joyce actually try to hide her under her desk (please no)? Can Joyce go to Leslie? I’m curious whether Willis is actually working Becky in as a regular character or if she will disappear again after this arc.
LGBTQ scholarships are a thing, so if she does want to transfer somewhere that might be helpful? She could certainly write one hell of a heart-wrenching application letter based on what’s happened to her.
Walky has connections to the Dean. Could be be pretty handy.
There are so many people on this campus that could help in different ways – Billie, Ruth, Amber/Amaziegirl, Ethan, Dorothy, Walky’s parents… – and so many of them that are really fond of Joyce. With just a tiny bit of luck this will turn into a heartwarming cavalcade of people pitching in to help Becky out.
You are yet young and full of hope. One day you will see, as I have seen, that Willis is a cruel creature possessed of a singular cunning and malevolent intelligence.
Noooo. There will be happy puppies and non-harrassed gay people and Becky kisses. I’m sure of it!
Which is why we keep coming back.
this could actually potentially a great political stand for Robin. Even among among conservatives, straight-conversion therapy is pretty poorly regarded.
And a lot of places have emergency loans too, don’t they?
All this chat and comment… Would it be crazy to suggest an IRC?
I’ve got one in SorceryNet #dumbingofage
I like this idea.
That’s a good Joyce. That’s a very, very good Joyce.
And that smile! I love it. It’s the smile of someone who knows, for the first time in this entire conversation, that what she’s saying and doing is both right and good. A big, solid personal truth to stand on, after spending all that time out of her depth, flailing and drowning.
I think we’re seeing here what TVTropes refers to as “break the cutie”.
I’m a bit baffled by everyone being so happy for Joyce. She’s certainly done the right thing, and something of great integrity. Like, maybe she fought the forces of evil and I’m happy she won, but it feels wrong to indulge that while she’s bleeding out on the pavement. (pretend this comparison works)
Your point is taken, and it is harder to heal emotional wounds than physical. Still, many people would have run away from such a painful moment, rather than have the courage and personal integrity to face it. We can be happy that Joyce is such a person. However, as I noted previously, this has taken a lot out of her and will continue to do so for quite some time afterwards.
Yeah, that face in the last panel? That’s not the “I am so happy that I realized the fallacy of my ways” face.
I think it’s more of a “My entire world-view is shattering and the only thing keeping me sane is that I am yet unaware of how much more it’ll continue to shatter in the next few weeks”
Personally I think it is less of her world-view and more “my best friend is in a shitty place but we have managed to reestablish our friendship, and came hell or high water I will help her.”
I think it’s a combination of the two. Y’know, “my entire world-view is shattering but at least I’m going to be able to help my best friend”.
Frankly, it terrifies me because I expect Joyce to discover that she can’t help her which’ll kick the legs out from under her entirely.
I’m still convinced that it’s simply a “relieved for my friend” face. Maybe combined with a bit of sadness that Becky’s had a tough time. I suppose we’ll see tomorrow.
That last line? That’s about as explicit a statement of love can be. Perhaps not romantically, but definitely love. And that’s why I love Joyce. She’s the most relatable female character in DoA. (Male being Danny, naturally.)
Being a Christian myself, I can safely say that the world needs more Joyce’s out there.
*relatable to me, that is. sorry, nuance escaped for a second, but it’s back now.*
I love Becky so much. I wish I could say that her struggles with her family were an anomaly for gay children of Christian parents, but it’s such a major problem. This storyline is just so real that it breaks my heart. And Joyce sticking up for her friend really makes me feel like crying for the other reason. This is so great.
Alternative last two panels.
“Yes. Not locking the door? C’mon, Becky, you know better!”
This makes me super happy.
Glory, glory hallelujah!
Joyce’s innate decency wins again over the brainwashing, just like it did when she defended Dorothy against her parents. While I have no idea how much is must be costing her or will cost her emotionally to push aside her upbringing, it is a massive act of courage and integrity.
PHEW
i really thought she was gonna dan it up today
Yes ^^
You’re going to hell, Joyce Brown.
*Huckleberry Finn voice* “All right, then, I’ll go to hell.”
If the tyrant the fundies worship were truly in charge of the universe, I’d happily go to his hell before I’d bow down to him.
^^ This
LOL. Your avatar does not fit the sentiment 🙂
All the cool people would be there. Bet we could have a hell of a party going in no time! ^^
Posted this a day or two ago, but it applies. From Alan Moore’s “The Mirror of Love”:
Perfect! ^^
I really do think she’s thinking so right now.
think with the good head
Big cheer for Joyce winning the internal battle in panel 5.
I was worried, Joyce. But, you did the right thing.
Now, get ready to face a lot of questions, including your treatment of religion and the bible. It’s gonna hurt.
omg i usually have no patience for well meaning homophobia, but joyce is actually kind of wonderful
This is just cute.
*Patiently waiting for the hippo to arrive*
At first blush, this is turning out far better and less heartrendingly terrible than expected! Though what Becky’s going to do next is…problematic. Try to find a cheap apartment and work at Galasso’s Pizza (and Subs?) Impress Galasso so much that he demands her and Conquest get together to sire an heir? Slipshine? Have I gotten that far ahead of myself? Where am I? Am I having a stroke? Tyr to fndia chee pepert men at work at Andasso’s Subzis (Gal Piz?)
For the record, I am just loving this chapter overall. Emotionally, it’s been one of the most satisfying installments so far!
Also for the record, I still believe that Becky is the vessel that will unleash eldritch horror from beyond matter and thought unto us all.
Finally, regarding the hover text…if there are hippos in Joyce’s life, her backstory is more interesting than I had assumed.
I predict a sudden and precipitous drop in Joyce’s tolerance for Walky’s “you’re so gay for Dorothy” cracks.
Excellent post TCampbell.
I agree.
Something important just did a 180 degree turn inside Joyce. Huge huge change in her life and belief system.
I am not her fan. And I’m not a Christian. But I see what happened here and think it’s a great storyline arc.
Joyce just rejected her parential upbringing and church, and opted to do the thing that her religion actually seems to say to do: cast not the first stone, forgive, judge not that ye be not judged, and all that. And help those who need it.
Love your friends. They are all that’s important. (Try to love your family, a bit harder 🙂 )
Joyce’s parents will find out about Becky’s scandal, and put two and two together. They will expect Becky to go running to Joyce, or at least worry about the possibility, and come looking. They will probably try to pull Joyce out of college either way. And if Joyce is under 18, they will be able to force her to come home with them.
Legally speaking, they cannot.
The Equal Protection Clause affords equal rights regardless of gender, creed, race, age, etc; As such, unless the child is deemed mentally unfit, they have any rights a non-child would have- including the right to be located where they wish.
UNFORTUNATELY, the misconception you’ve presented, and the associated ‘property’ status children (and pets) hold, pervades most of the legal (and certainly our notably corrupt enforcement) system, so in a sense, you’re entirely correct.
However, that all aside, Joyce’s parents made a big display the last time they were over that they may not understand or agree with her decisions, but they still love and support her, and respect her right to make her own decisions- and that she has the strength of will to make them on her own.
Or at least, that was the impression I got.
On the flip side, here’s where you’ve got an argument to go on-
If Becky is a minor, and Joyce houses her, then the parents can move for Unlawful Harboring of a Minor; Of course, while that’s usually used as a ‘rights of the parents to their property’, once again actual law and common conception/use differ:
Unlawful Harboring of a Minor does not prohibit harboring a minor, or even denying parents access to that minor. It prohibits hiding the presence of the minor to a law enforcement representative; not revealing information about the minor when requested; or otherwise obstructing the officer from pursuing the minor.
Ergo, the parents can file for an officer to pursue Becky, and so long as Joyce complies fully with any police requests, she can’t be held accountable.
Now, from here, the officer could support Becky- but probably wouldn’t, because of social expectations of children as property and the non-interference of police in that expectation generally overwhelming moral/legal right.
And Becky could respectfully refuse to leave her location- assuming she knew her legal rights, and the officers accepted those rights.
So basically..
Actual laws aside, the situation will really end up more or less like you described, one way or another.
It really, truly sucks to be a minor with circumstances.
Is this the first time an avi’s major corresponds with what’s posted?
The Equal Protection Clause affords equal rights regardless of gender, creed, race, age, etc; As such, unless the child is deemed mentally unfit, they have any rights a non-child would have- including the right to be located where they wish.
Do cops not return runaway teens to their parents against the kids’ will?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mRn9chmRAY
Oh, don’t mind me, just bringing a marching band by…
Biggest feels of the comic so far, and it’s not even shipping related.
Becky will probably be the thing that changes Joyce the most, despite telling her not to change. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/01-move-in-day/forget/
this is extremely good and also not bad
This is a good page. Joyce is just such a great character. I like that even though it goes against everything she has been told/believes in, she would still choose her best friend over it all and reevaulate her own beliefs because of it.
I can’t believe Joyce is now one my favourite character here, when I really didn’t care for her in the Walkyverse. Yay for Joyce!
I certainly hope you’re right, because from her expression on the last panel, it looks a bit like Joyce is lying her face off and just saying what she knows Becky needs to hear right now.
She’s doing the right thing by Becky, even if she still believes it’s “wrong”.
With everything that’s happened in her time in college, little by little she is being forced to re-evaluate what she knows is true, what she’s been told, what she’s grown up with, and she will have to face up all of these and make a decision on her own…hopefully she’ll realize and pardon the cliche answer, that life is not black and white
I dunno, it kind of looks like she’s crying to me with a happy supportive smile. But in a ‘I’m-supporting-you-though-this-situation-is-really-scary-and-I-don’t-know-what-to-do-but-you’re-my-bff’ kind of way.
I would really hope that she’s not lying, it would be a huuuuuuge step back for her if it was. To me, it looks like she tried to give out a vague neutral answer, and when ofc, that wasn’t good enough, she actually thought about it and decided that she actually maybe all those things she were told as ‘bad’ and ‘mistakes’ weren’t really. I’m kind of hoping after all this, we can see some lighthearted shenanigans with some other characters, then just cut to Joyce telling Ethan that they need to break up. I can’t see much of a future with those two after this.
plus it frees up Ethan for DannyBut what if the Hippo too is named Becky?
These are the questions that keep us all up at night.
Ya did good Joyce ya did good.
Yaaay character development for Joycey Joyce ;u;
Joyce is best friend. She’s my very favorite character. What a great moral ethical good soul. She wins at everything, no matter what cray cray is thrown at her.
In fairness, not locking the door first was a mistake. Even if Joyce is having an epiphany, she isn’t wrong about Becky making a mistake!
Yeah, even Becky agrees that wasn’t a good move.
So now we can haz sexy-times?
I sense someone’s lying to their best friend so she’ll feel better.
Of course she thinks it’s a mistake. That’s why she’s trying to “help” Ethan.
Maybe I’m a little more optimistic, but I think she’s running up to a rock and a hard place, between loving her friend and her lifelong beliefs. Something has to give, and I’m hoping that it’s going to help her grow, and open up a little more to what’s really going on with Ethan (and her).
Not that that isn’t painful as fuck. It really is.
Thats sounds pessimistic to me.
That isnt something that might happen, off in the future.
It already happened on this very page.
This is personal growth. And it was painful, she screwed up,
She got an instant do-over; almost screwed it up a second time,
stopped herself, and remembered to put her stated love for Becky first.
There is going to be all kinds of consequences from this,
from the way she relates to Ethan,
and Billy,
She might talk to Mandy and try to learn from what she was afraid of.
This is Joyce that knows the homophobia she was instilled in with,
Damaged her best friends life, and almost cost her her best friend.
( It also doesnt hurt that she had an epiphany , on her first screw up;
She learned even the her best friend couldnt make her gay. And It shocks her to silence. )
She loves her friends, straight and gay, and learned they cant turn her gay.
Its just a short step to acknowledging, that she cant turn Ethan straight either. She may not even want to now
That’s a very good point – whatever else comes from this situation, we have Joyce realizing that homosexuality is absolutely not a choice. If she – Joyce – could choose to be gay, I think in that moment she might have, if only to comfort her best friend, who was clearly hurting deeply and reaching out to her desperately.
Now, however, Joyce has learned through firsthand experience that even if you want to, even if it’s for the sake of a person you love, you don’t get to choose your sexual orientation. Gay, straight, or anywhere in between, you are stuck with what you’ve got.
And on top of that, she’s even acknowledging that no, it’s not wrong, it can’t be wrong, because this is Becky. I think she’s already known this for a while – she’s met so many people that are both not-straight and wonderful – but now it’s trembling and crying in her arms, smacking her right in the face with the truth: People are People and if your God is really love, then this cannot be as wrong as I’ve been lead to believe.
This is beautiful character growth! Cheers and salutes, Mr. Willis!
Never mind my first line, I didnt see you were responding to Ninja_Jesus.
I gotta stop reading comments in reverse order. I am sorry
( edit : if you are being ironic, then never mind )
Nah, this is personal growth.
You are judging Joyce for old beliefs,
—before those beliefs damaged Beckys life,
and almost cost her, her best friend.
“Thinks”, or “thought”.
I was raised Christian, and taught that gay people would go to hell.
A couple of months into my sophomore year of college, one of my best friends (who I’d met in the first week) told me she was gay.
I knew instantly that there was no way this person was going to hell. Thus, my beliefs about gayness must be 100% wrong. I didn’t just change my opinion – my whole outlook and attitude toward all kinds of “alternative” sexuality did a 180 degree flip-flop in those first five seconds.
So if Joyce suddenly changes her entire approach to LGBTQ people and issues… yes, it can happen just like that.
But it took me another 5 years to stop being Christian. It wasn’t that my friend took precedence over God. It was just that I recognized that all those teachings must be wrong, irrelevant to Christianity, the product of human error, ignorable.
I was Raised as a Christian as well, however when I was going through highschool, my parents started saying “But you may like boys instead of girls, not that theres anything wrong with that.” Part of me thinks that my parents feared that I was gay (to explain, I had 0 interest in dating anyone since the girls there only dated for sex (personally thought it was wrong)) and decided to accept that possibility, rather than disown me.
I am currently agnostic since I do question a lot about religion, however haven’t chosen to give up on it since I do believe there is something out there. Although when people ask me to follow the bible to the point, I merely tell them it is more like a guideline on how to act, not the actual rules.
Same old Joyce.
Finally – hug achieved.
These are not tears – it’s liquid pride.
Tears are a normal reaction to any emotional overload. They’re the brain’s equivalent of opening up the fusebox and resetting the circuit breakers.
No, YOU have something in your eye!
Re: Significance of character and costume design.
Compare Joyce and Becky’s appearances in today’s strip to the very first one of the series.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/01-move-in-day/home/
That is Joyce’s default outfit. She wears it in most of the strips.
That is very untrue.
It’s somewhat “iconic” juice, but it’s not like Peanuts or some animation were outfits are part of the fixed appearance of the character design.
I swear that said Joyce when I hit POST COMMENT…
Not juice, JOYCE… I’ve given so much to computers, and yet they still treat me this way…
You’re in college, you’ve got one closet, and maybe a couple of boxes of clothes and other things from home. Unless you’re Mary Richards (old TV show reference) there’s going to have to be some reappearances of outfits from time to time.
She almost made the mistake
almost
Good ol’ Joyce
Joyce says she hates lying so the idea she is simultaneously lying to her best friend so she can break her heart later is like saying Sal really wants to sell her motorcycle and use the money to buy frilly dresses.
She can’t do that! She needs to wear the dress on the motorcycle!
(Um, can motorcycles even be driven riding side saddle? Never driven one, myself…)
Yes, if you put your legs on the left. You won’t be able to reach the rear brake pedal, but as long as you don’t go too fast, you can make do with the front brake alone.
Still, definitely not recommended. Riding a Vespa would be a better choice. 🙂
I most want to see that. Almost cus I’m sure she will break out of the strip and break my legs if I did.
This webcomic makes me cry ALL the tears.
Whoops, I take it back. Randy Milholland just made me sob my freaking guts out. But you can have second place.
What was Becky thinking, coming here?
Perhaps that Joyce would always be there for her, that however shocked she might be she would come around, that she’s her best friend and will win every time. That together there’s nothing they can’t do.
Seems like she made the right call.
STILL LIQUID PRIDE, DAMMIT
Yesss. Joyce. I hoped so much she would make this decision.
Now they’re flowing, the feels.
Joyce you dirty liar. her face says it all.
Her face says ‘I just decided the bible was wrong even though I’ve been raised to believe it’s 100% correct about everything which shakes the very core of everything I’ve ever believed.’
The title of this post makes me think she ISN’T lying. The Pit, it’s called. I think she just weighed potential damnation in her head and found Becky more important.
Probably still terrified out of her adorable little boots about it. But not lying.
Exactly. Thank you.
To choose damnation for the sake of another… that is, if you’ll pardon the phrase, one hell of a brave thing.
That face say’s she’s lying to you? It says “Holy Crap I just realized everything I know is wrong. This person I love can’t possibly be going to hell for loving the same sex” to me.
And that’s not an easy realization for someone like her.
Yes, Becky. I think it was a mistake not to lock the door. *prays for Joyce gravatar, probably doesn’t get it.*
Just imaging Joyce back at her family’s church:
“Joyce, how has your freshman year of college been?”
“Well, I got drunk and nearly got raped, I’ve got a crush on a guy (that I don’t realize is gay), I got a graphic display of what a dildo is used for (and it doesn’t go on your head), I drew a bunch of penises on my dorm white boards, and I stood up to my parents about Billie. Oh, and my best friend Becky kissed me and told me she loves me…”
Imagining the meltdown that would ensue……
Point by point:
“Well, I got drunk and nearly got raped,”
– She was not drunk, she was drinking sprite and got slipped some drugs by her would-be rapist.
“I’ve got a crush on a guy (that I don’t realize is gay),”
– She is well aware that Ethan is gay. It’s part of why she’s with him in the first place.
“…and I stood up to my parents about Billie.”
– Dorothy, actually, but good try nonetheless.
She did crush on Ethan before she knew he was gay. You are right that she certainly knows now. They rest is spot on…
Narf: Thanks for the corrections, tried to go off the top of my head prior to caffeine this am. Surprised I came that close to getting it right…
Panel four: You can actually see the moment when Becky breaks and realizes how stupid she’s been.
Joyce’s choice here wasn’t for or against Christianity but between Becky and Ross. When she realized that, her choice was easy.
*sniff* Good job, Joyce. Good job.
But what if we put Becky against Dorothy?
Let’s not
My God, it’s like watching someone destroy the very foundation of their lives.
I know it’s the right thing here, but seriously, that’s gotta sting.
Sometimes what you think is the foundation is really the weight on your shoulders.
Happy. 🙂
It’s irrational to feel proud of a fictional character’s achievements, especially when you had no hand in it whatsoever. Nevertheless, today’s word of the day is naches.
Also, once again: bravo, Willis. This has been an outstanding storyline and it’s scary how much you’ve gotten me to invest emotionally in these girls.
*applause*
Now I’ll admit I only recently started Bingeing on the archives to catch up but to some of the people thinking Joyce is lying and is about to do something awful I have to ask are we reading about the same Joyce?
Every Joyce heavy story seems to be about her changing world view and dealing with it. Yes she’s made mistakes like dating Ethan and trying to “Fix” his gayness but beyond that her story has been about discovering how things she once saw as endlessly unquestionably evil really aren’t.
The end of this strip, to me at least, seems to show Joyce fully realizing that and doesn’t seem to want to change Becky. She’s not seeing her as an “Evil” homosexual she’s seeing her as a friend who’s in a very bad place.
It’s great Character Growth and it continues Joyce’s arc very wonderfully in my opinion.
I’m glad Becky isn’t going to just let Joyce hide behind her ignorance. Becky is self aware enough that this is who she is and no one is going to tell her that she had any choice to begin with.
If Joyce’s homophobia hasn’t been cured, it’s at least in remission now. 🙂
Something tells me that this is going to be a turning point for Joyce in how she handles her faith in general.
I think “homophobic” is the wrong term for a girl who seemed to really enjoy snuggling with a man she knew was gay. “Claustrophobic” has a rather specific meaning, while “homophobic” gets used too broadly IMHO.
Based on the Greek phobos, and the way other -phobic words are used, yeah, homophobic would mean “afraid of homosexuals”.
But it doesn’t, it means “doesn’t like homosexuals” (or arguably “doesn’t like homosexuality”, for those that claim “hate the sin, love sinner”).
That is just the way language works sometimes.
“Homophobia” in the sense of “fear of homosexuality” might actually be more accurate to describe Joyce’s feelings on the matter. Joyce doesn’t hate homosexuals or necessarily even homosexuality, but we had a whole storyline about how she was afraid she was becoming homosexual. (Ironically, the same day Becky stopped answering her phone.)
“Homophobia” isn’t really the word for Joyce’s feelings on the matter, IMO.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia#Origins
Well, yeah you made a mistake, duh!
You didn’t lock the door when you were making out with another chick at a Christian College!
I actually expected this strip next/soon, but with a longer pause
like this
although of course the limitations in size prevent it in that layout. I think it’s better without the pause. Overcoming long-held, deeply-ingrained beliefs for the sake of a friend is admirable; doing so quickly enough to ensure that Becky believes it and isn’t left hanging is heroic, given how much Becky needs the support right now.
Not to suggest Joyce’s achievement is ‘just’ admirable, as opposed to heroic. I’m just trying to indicate an heirarchy of achievement.
I like that! Puts focus on just how much needs to be processed.
Joyce looks like she’s about to crack, all of her experiences with a world she’s been largely sheltered from are compounding…
And Joyce’s brain blows a few more circuits. I like her character development in the comic, but especially this strip. Her worldview is adjusting, but not all at once.
Thinking for yourself feels pretty good, doesn’t it, Joyce?
For those speculating about where Becky is going to stay, the next story arc is called “three is a crowd”.
I approve!
But there’s company too.
And now I’m imagining Becky will have the hots for both Joyce and Sarah. Not sure if that’s even a good thing considering the emotional rolar coaster we’ve just been on.
But the twist is she’ll be moving in with Danny and Joe.
Beats “Three’s Company”
So… I’m writing Dumbing of Age fanfic now. How did I come to that? Anyway, I’m not sure if that’s OK. Feel free to delete if not.
There were tears but there was also laughter, because despite everything they were right now two best friends in the whole world sharing a pizza in the middle of the night. They hugged, they cried, they talked and they didn’t notice that the door opened.
“Well, Becky, it’s time to figure out what to do next.”
“You will come with me, young lady.”
“Stay away from her!” Joyce was up from her seat and between Becky and her father in an instant.
“Step aside, miss Brown. I’ll talk to your parents later, rest assu…”
“Do we have a problem?”
“And who are you?”
“For people like you I’m the Alpha bongo.”
“Really? That’s so corny.”
“Shut up Ruth.”
“Make me. Anyway, what the Alpha bongo here is trying to tell you is to get the hell out of here.”
“Or what?”
“Or I’ll scream HELP, THIS JERK IS HARASSING US. CHEER-LEADER IN DISTRESS OVER HERE.”
“Get out of my way!!!” In the corner of his eyes Ross could see his daughter and her friend… lover? (horrible thought) being whisked away by the waitress. He made an attempt to follow but ran in to what seemed to be a solid steel wall, but turned out to be a mountain of a man, wearing a chef’s apron and staring at him with mad eyes.
“WHO DARE DISTURB GALASSO’S CUSTOMERS?”
“Sir, this is a family matter.”
“THIS IS A FAMILY ESTABLISHMENT!!!”
“My daughter thinks she is a queer and has betrayed the family honor with that… tramp back there. Now let me get to them before… ”
“CEASE YOUR IRRELEVANT CHATTER AND REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THE PRESENCE OF GALASSO BEFORE I TURN YOU INTO TOMORROWS MAIN COURSE!!!”
On the campus Dorothy’s finger danced over the keyboard. It had taken less than a minute of Joyce tearful explanation of the situation over the phone to put her in full commando central mood (which, while impressive also was somewhat scary, in Walky’s opinion).
“Hello, Campus Security, I wish to report a man engaging in suspicious activity.”
“Hello, Miss Beans. It’s Dorothy, one of your students. I’m so sorry to disturb you in the middle of the night but we have an emergency.”
“Hello, It’s Dorothy. We are in need of shelter space and I wonder if you can help us…”
“Hello, my name is Dorothy, I got your number from Ethan…”
“Um… Hi mum, I… No, everything is fine… Yes, me and Dorothy are still… No she’s not… OF COURSE I KNOW HOW TO USE A FRIGGIN’ CONDOM! We need help with… No it’s not Sal either. Just listen to me…”
Ross fumed as he left the car in the parking lot. He would get back to the dorms and nab the girls there, and then… His thoughts were disturbed by a polite cough.
“WHAT?”
“Hi sir, I’m Danny and I have a message for you. She says that…”
“You can tell my worthless daughter that…”
“I’m pretty sure you don’t have a daughter any more sir, shame on you, and you don’t scare me. I’ve seen scary and you’re not it. Anyway, you should know that this campus is protected. She knows who you are and why you are here. She has followed you the last half hour. She can see you. She is in the shadow. Any shadow.”
“Who?”
“The protector. Better step carefully, sir.”
“Better step carefully, Ross Macintyre.” The voice growled behind him. But when he looked he saw nothing but shadows.
“W-who are you?”
“Sir, this is a family matter.”
“THIS IS A FAMILY ESTABLISHMENT!!!”
This is so perfect and so Galasso and so perfectly Galasso.
I’m picturing Galasso delivering that line, then chest-kicking Ross into a bottomless pit.
“This! Is! PIZZA!!!”
*KICK!*
“… … …And subs.”
Then the Grim Reaper from Dr. McNinja shows up in a maître d’ outfit.
“Ross McIntyre, your table is ready.”
There’s a hippo in Joyce’s life?
Dang, Becky gets a facefull of boobs. Nice one, Joyce!
She’s one smooth operator, that Becky. 🙂
But that’s not the only potential three. Joyce, becky and ethan. Amber, danny and Ethan. Amber, amazigirl and danny. Things are never easy in DOA
Given how these things tend to pile up my guess is that we will see more than one trio
Holy shit, did Joyce just Grow As A Person?? If so, good for her! It might help her out a little bit when she inevitably finds out her “boyfriend” is gay.
I thought she had already found out about that.
Yes. Now she just has to re-evaluate that situation.
Yeah she already knows about that, she’s trying to “fix” him. Hopefully this will help her come to terms with and deal with that situation in a more appropriate way.
“Holy shit, did Joyce just Grow As A Person??”
Great, now I’m picturing the “LEVEL UP!” thing from Scott Pilgrim…
+2 Heart!
-5 Bigotry!
+3 Smarts!
Joyce gained the power of Tolerance!
Damn you Willis, just when I was getting used to seriously disliking Joyce for all of her horrible decisions, you have to go and make me like her for her huge heart.
Ah and here’s the strip that I finally really want to cry at. I’m actually a little choked up.
My grandma ignores my sexuality just like she ignores that I am biracial, and not Christian. She loves me so dearly, and can’t accept that I am ‘a sinner’ or born from a sinner. (she is very racist, and I whole heartedly believe that she thinks interracial marriage is a sin. tho my aunt is bi-racial, but she says that ‘mexicans are basically white anyway’ which is NOT TRUE, but again, is an easy way for her to close her eyes, and harden her shell. When I post LGBT positive things, or talk about my sexuality on facebook, she messages me to take them down.
But for some reason, she chose to not be this way with my mom. When my mom came out as bisexual to her, she tried to have me removed from her care, and called her a monster. She said some really horrific stuff to my mom, and my mother was in hysterics for days. They’re back on speaking terms, but only because my mother fell in love with a man and married him. I suspect my grandma assumes that my mom is “fixed” or that she had been going through a rough phase in life or something.
But I would love it if my grandma would extend the kindness and understanding that Joyce is giving Becky to us. I would really like that a lot.
I don’t know if you’re talking about your aunt or your grandmother because one of your parentheses is missing.
Oops! Grandma! Should be a closed parentheses after shell. BUT it is my grandma who says mexicans are basically white. She grew up teaching my aunt that she was white, and my aunt stays inside as much as she can to lighten her skin. She didn’t used to. When she was a kid, her skin was dark. Not so anymore. She says she hated her dark skin.
…
“Empathy via light physical contact”
Or virtual hug from a disembodied stranger, whichever’s better.
Actually, Hispanics are officially considered white. They’re different from non-Hispanic whites ethnically, but not racially.
Hispanic isn’t considered white, it’s not a racial category at all. You can be Hispanic of any race, it just refers to being associated with Spain or Portugal culturally.
Hispanics can be white. When people talk about “Hispanic” or “Mexican” as a race, they’re usually actually equating it with “mestizo”.
“Now come, Becky. Leap into my ample bosom.”
(I’m sorry)
“I could crawl up into them and be warm and safe forever” 😉 http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/curiosity/
Joyce I’m not sure if you’re being genuine or you’ve learned to lie for the sake of someone’s well-being but either way I LOVE YOU.
Gah, this is reminding me WAY too much of myself in high school/college. I *am* Joyce.
I just started reading this yesterday, and now I’m here (that was about 13 hours) :O I’m hooked for life now, ain’t I?
…
I’m totally okay with that
Welcome to some of the finest scripting and characterization in webcomics (also regular comics (also everything)).
Yeah, yeah, I get it. You can’t make or expect LGBT people change. Really driving home that message hard, aren’t you?
^when you drink to much tea and decide it is your business
*That* is the message you got from this arc? How odd, since the whole arc seemed to be about how true friendship overcomes all obstacles to me. The message you seem to have got from this was only lightly touched upon in passing in one panel of one strip of the entire arc.
Perhaps you are just sensitive to that particular message. If so, ask yourself why.
That is definitely the message being conveyed by this comic, if you ignore the words and pictures.
Aw! Way to go, Joyce! So proud of you! 😀
Yes! You didn’t let me down, Joyce.
Respect to Joyce for not going for the easy save: “Yes, mistakes. Like not locking the door.”
Joyce isn’t naturally snarky enough for that to be her first response.
OH LAWD…..PERSONAL GROWTH……..FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELings
No one else gonna say it?
IT’S THE RAIN. IT’S THE STORM WE ALL HAVE TO ENDURE.
Old school
I don’t know why people keep expecting the worst of Joyce. First there were people who expected her to push Becky away with bigotry. When that didn’t happen there were people expecting her to treat Becky as if she had a curable illness. I get that that sort of behaviour isn’t uncommon from people with a similar upbringing to hers, but I don’t think we’ve ever been given any clues to imply that Joyce is like that. Quite the opposite in fact.
Oh, we have it on good authority that Joyce is modeled after some real person. And if she were a lot like that real person, we’d be going “Damn you, Joyce” all the time.
> there were people expecting her to treat Becky as if she had a curable illness.
Remind me again about the details of her relationship with Ethan in your universe’s version of the comic? Because, you know, she’s shown no indication before this strip of not believing that being gay is a choice / something that can be cured / etc.
What does “shortening” mean?
“Shortening” is any fat that is solid at room temperature and is used in making crumbly/flaky pastries, such as pie crusts and cakes.
That’s eery. I asked someone the exact same question about ten minutes ago.
Shortening is crisco. Forshortening refers to eating exactly four jars of crisco, a technique often used by artists to increase their power levels, as lard is scientifically proven to increase manual dexterity.
That doesn’t follow, because Crisco (a brand name) is and all-vegetable shortening, while lard is rendered pork fat.
Also, Crisco comes in cans.
I’ve always bought Crisco in bars.
Apparently it comes in both formats – the bars (or “baking sticks”) are designed to be cut into teaspoons/tablespoons like a stick of butter, but the traditional format is a cardboard can.
Wow, it’s simply incredible how not only this comic, but also the outpouring of community is forming in these comments. Not only are we invested in the personal growth and development in both Joyce and Becky through this arc, but people are bonding over their own shared experiences and related stories. It’s really a sight to behold.
Fantastic work, Willis, for having us squeeing like fangirls at the kiss, crying along with Becky as runs off, frothing at the mouths for Ross’ neck and overall damning and praising you the whole while. Great work, Man!
Perhaps Joyce, when it comes down to it, believes in a god that’s more loving than hateful/vengeful/pitiless/merciless…
Or might even be realizing that a god worth revering would not make the hateful, spiteful demands that people like Becky’s jerkass dad invoke in “God’s” name — the problem with people like Ross is that they believe in a small, petty, venomous deity.
Okay, too good. Can’t be truth. That’s David “Damn You” Willis, not Mike’s mom.
Either Joyce lies (like Billie about cold turkey), or a meteor falls on them in a few seconds.
YUP, DEFINITELY METEOR
She passes the test, she will remain Joyce and pass into the west.
*Cue swelling music*
In an earlier comment above by HeySo the commenter raised questions about the consequences if Becky were a minor.
So just a quick question to clarify something, Willis — are we to accept that all characters in DoA are 18 years of age or older? I ask because I know that some people — like myself — were still 17 years old during much if not all of their first semester in college.
I would assume for the sake if only for the sake of any and all potential slipshines he’d want everyone to be 18 or older.
I wish my parents were like Joyce
I posted something earlier that may have been considered “questionable” because it included URL’s so I will try again without the URL’s. The Walkypedia lists storylines for the previous comic in the Walkyverse, called “Joyce and Walky”. But the Joyce and Walky comics that I read on the site of the same name do not match up in content–to be brief, Walkypedia lists a whole lot of superhero-type stuff going on during periods when all I see in the strip is cutesy domestic stuff about Joyce and Walky. Mind you, there is superhero stuff going on earlier in Joyce and Walky, but all the stuff about their wedding being delayed by Walky getting stranded in another dimension doesn’t seem to appear in the strip, only in the Walkypedia description. Could someone enlighten me about this?
Most of the Joyce and Walky strips are available by paid subscription only, specifically only one strip a week is available free, and those aren’t usually connected to the main Joyce and Walky storyline.
Thank you. Can they still be “bought” now that the series is “over”?
There’s a “store” link up there, and J&W appears as the first item there for me.
Well, I just noticed Willis was doing some foreshadowing again that I’d completely forgotten about.
Such as? Spill!
Check the link in my name.
I don’t think this is quite what Joyce had in mind….
Except the leaving the door unlocked. THAT was still a mistake.
Actually, I’m beginning to think that kissing Kaitlin was a mistake. You should only kiss people who have the guts to not throw you under the bus when their parents find out.
And exactly when would something like that come up in casual conversation?
I’m not saying there’s any foolproof way of telling in advance. A lot of mistakes are like that.
I’m really curious to see how Joyce’s parents handle her growth in DOAverse. In Walkyverse, they were very one-dimensional with their insistence on grandchildren and they had lived through thinking their daughter died; found out she was alive, superpowered, and working secretly for the government; and lived through an alien invasion. Not surprisingly, their interaction with Joyce was very different than what we’ve seen here so far. Very curious to see how this develops now that they don’t have supposed-death and alien invasion to give them some perspective on what’s really important to them.
They also thought she was a lesbian for a while, since they mistook Walky for a girl.
Oh right! I forgot about that. Yeah, Walkyverse Mr. & Mrs. Brown were very different.
As Lois McMaster Bujold pointed out, there’s nothing like a war to let youngsters get involved in bizarre $#!+ without parental supervision.
Walkyverse Browns also said something about Joyce being their last chance for grandkids. This despite the fact that she had five older brothers. We know basically nothing about them, and she only has three siblings in this universe, so I don’t think there’s a one-to-one correspondence. But I’m wondering if maybe by that point they had all come out as gay/trans/asexual or the like that eliminated in Mrs. Brown’s mind the possibility of them giving her the biological grandchildren she wanted. By the time they got to #6 apparently kissing another girl on television, they might have worked their way through, “The Bible says that what you’re doing is sinful, we just want to save you from Hell,” and, “God, what did we do to make you make all our children gay?” and gotten to, “Welp, figures.” “Now, now, Carol, there’s always in vitro fertilization.”
basically
All but Joyce were gay/trans/asexual in Walkyverse? LOL. That’s both fantastic and statistically improbable/fun! 🙂
Five? I thought all chars were the same BTW/ verses? What happened to the other 2?
Heck no. Some characters have different parents. In other parts of the Walkyverse, Amber has a slew of half-siblings including Faz; in the Dumbiverse, she is an only child (according to Word of God, i.e., Willis) yet Faz still exists.
Joyce, you surprised me more than I can put into words. You saw through your past, and unfortunate cultural programming, to accept your best friend as she comes. I’m so glad Becky had you to come to in her darkest hour. 😀
Yup, Joyce is a better Christian than her upbringing would suggest.
I am so very proud of you right now, Joyce.
That expression on Joyce is priceless. Frankly, the reason I bother to read anything is the chance to see these moments, when Joyce is basically forced to choose between Becky and her beliefs, and she chooses Becky. Becky is her best friend since forever and nothing else matters. Not all the Jesus crap, all the Christian preaching, over all that, she would go to hell for Becky.
That’s just makes me feel warm and fluffy …
I find it a bit odd for her to be smiling and crying and looking up at the same time… Just looks really creepy, like she doesn’t believe anything she’s saying.
Conflicted, maybe?
She is smiling in agony. She just realized, that she can no longer dismiss lesbianism as a mistake, and that she have to accept Becky as she is. Deep inside, her perfect little Christian world is crumbling and falling apart.
As I said, priceless.
D’awwww! Don’t mind me, I think I got a little something in my eye!
You see a hippo, you do what we do. Run. You run your ass off.
You can’t outrun a hippo if it charges you. Those things are *fast*.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWW. THIS IS SUPER SWEET.
MAYBE IS SHOULD TURN OFF MY CAPS LOCK.
Sorry
this comic was super sweet.
These aren’t tears. Its raining.
“It’s not given to people to judge what’s right or wrong. People have eternally been mistaken and will be mistaken, and in nothing more than in what they consider right and wrong.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
“The true meaning of Christ’s teaching consists in the recognition of love as the supreme law of life, and therefore not admitting any exceptions.”
― Leo Tolstoy
Joyce should read Tolstoy. She might find a way to wrestle her faith away from the dogma of her upbringing.
Thank you. Seriously, WHY is it that everyone uses the bible and GOD as a way to justify not liking someone? Seirously, I think ‘God Tolerates Gays’ as some people call it because they don’t try to make him sound like some sort of omniscient tyrant. Seriously, thats what I think whenever I see people judging others and using their religion as a justification. i’m sorry, but with how I was taught on the religious works, I don’t see him as a guy who would be that mean. I think after over…oh…6000 or so years of human existance and other cultures outside of CHristianity, I think he can be OK with it.
I think it would be amazing if Joyce convinced her parents to take in Becky, but I don’t expect this to happen – it’s a (somewhat) happy ending, and happy endings in this comic just don’t happen.
I think that most gay people aren’t so much afraid as they are…wary. Cautious. Perhaps even minorly paranoid. If they have the slightest comprehension, they understand they’ve been thrown into a hostile environment, so they have to learn certain skills to throw predators off the scent, as it were. Most don’t take chances unless they’re onto a sure thing, and even then they can be guarded and distant.
Interesting thought. Joyce’s parents, although judgemental and repressive are not bad people at heart. However for them, Joyce making friends with an atheist was scary enough, I don’t think they’re ready to shelter her newly gay best childhood friend even if they were fond of her. They may already know about Becky if her Dad is close to them. Joyce should go to her brother for help.
I had a realization like this once. I grew up in an alcoholic household and to this day I still struggle with not viewing alcohol as evil and seeing people who drink as bad people. The same view extended to drugs, but even more extreme because I’d never been around them and they were illegal. (I don’t think I’ll ever be comfortable around either, but that’s not the point.)
And the man who mentored me throughout high school and taught me the craft I would one day pursue as a career suggested me trying out new things at college and I mentioned being worried over alcohol or drugs in my dorm room due to a roommate. And he told me I needed to relax more about it (he was from an alcoholic household and a recovering alcoholic, too) and try some things. I think he was trying to push me too much, but then he said that he’d even tried drugs at one point in college.
My brain basically short-circuited. I had two opposing beliefs: drugs and people who do drugs are inherently bad AND my mentor was a good person. But I had just found out he had done drugs. One of those beliefs had to be wrong. I decided it was the first one.
Sometimes, things gotta give.
Soooo, I happened to hear this song and it made me think of this strip.
Thanks for letting love win.
Besties Eternal! <3
… only instead of a dragon, Joyce and Becky might ride a unicorn, maybe.
This might just be the most important comic in DOA. This is the axis on which Joyce turns.
*me hugs Willis* I know getting through that couldn’t have been easy man, and I get the feeling that you were happily crying doing this particular strip as much as we have been reading it.
Thank you.
Speaking as an erstwhile fundamentalist – this is how breakthroughs are made.
I hate this strip.
My friend wasn’t Joyce.
She never spoke to me again.
I hate Becky for not having to go through years of self-loathing because of it.
I suppose that’s actually a compliment for the storytelling here.
she DID make a mistake…she forgot to lock the door, that was a HUGE mistake.