And, doing the responsible thing, immediately tears Billie’s heart open. Because when you see someone with chronic issues finally start to make some progress, it’s important to immediately punish them for it, so they don’t develop the terrible misconception that successfully changing will mean anything to anyone they care about.
To be fair (a hard thing here I’ve noticed), Billie probably had no idea how much of an asshat she was at the time. And Alice doesn’t know that Billie is trying to change.
Though with how Billie used to be, the question remains if Alice would even believe it.
It’s not Alice’s responsibility to do what’s best for Billie. It’s her responsibility to do what’s best for HERSELF. Billie saying she doesn’t want to be her old self doesn’t automatically mean Alice should let her back into her life.
Believe it or not, Alice is the rational actor here.
I’d disagree about the rationalness of this sort of behavior is appropriate. Not being around Billie may be the best thing for Alice, especially if she isn’t strong enough or independent enough not to get sucked in. But treating someone the way she treats her in this scene or encouraging others to alienate Billy just because She couldn’t handle being a part of her life is neither rational nor ethical. Its one thing to say “I can’t be a part of your life” and another to say “No-one should be a part of your life and you are universally awful.” The first may very well be a rational response, the second rarely if ever is.
Yeah, I concede you guys are probably right. Alice clearly has a great deal of buried pain that she’s been unable to share with Billie, and it’s unfair to expect her to hold it back indefinitely for Billie’s sake. I’m just incredibly annoyed by the paradox that Alice was trying to put up a polite front for Billie right up until she realized that Billie might not be totally oblivious to her self-destructive nature anymore. I’ve seen that pattern a lot before- and I mean in real life, too- and it always completely flummoxes me.
My guess is she was afraid starting that conversation would hurt Billie, and possibly provoke her into doing something dangerous (telling a dangerous person you think they’re dangerous is frequently a not-good idea). In avoiding the topic, Alice hoped to get out of the situation while neither hurting Billie nor putting herself at risk. Then Billie brought it up herself, making it somewhat clear she knew most of it and probably wouldn’t do anything stupid if confronted with it. So Alice took a chance for some catharsis.
More like, she was afraid starting that conversation would ruin any chance she had with Billie. They were ‘best friends’, but evidence shows Billie was probably oblivious to Alice’s extended feelings toward her. As usually happens when you suppress negative feelings in favor of positive ones, the negative feelings fester and grow until they burn away all the positive ones. That seems to have happened here.
Yeah, Billie is the one that starting calling Alice “shitty”, because she thought she was doing the cool-kid thing and rejecting her “dorky friends”. I think that’s more of what set Alice off… knowing how Billie was before, how dare she say that Alice is being the shitty one.
Yes, but you don’t know how that kind of situation is going to play out. Look at what Billie’ s done to Ruth. Alice maybe should have told Billie why she was breaking off back during the summer and told her she needed to get her act together but how would that have gone before Billie’s rude awakening call at college? Even in the encounter in this arc Billie latched onto Alice as if they were still in high school, still trying to hold onto that world. Even Billie’ s “epiphany” wasn’t what Billie thought it was: Alice wasn’t down on Billie’ s “dork friends”, she was trying to evade Billie grabbing hold of her and pulling her down with her, with no reason to think it was otherwise.
OMG I also had a less than keen grasp of the obvious. Now the strip is even more heartbreaking. I want my obliviousness back. Damn you Damn Rat and Camachri!
Might not have been Alice’s first time. From her interactions with Ruth, two things are becoming clear:
1) Billie seems to be attractive to women. This may mean she’s generally attractive (having a bit of Asian blood probably adds an exotic hint to her appearance that attracts people), or that she has some element that attracts women (not sure if such an element exists, I’m just hypothesizing).
2) Billie does not seem to be AWARE that she’s attractive to women. She knows men like her, and has used that to her advantage in the past. But it seems to me Ruth was her first Sapphic experience (seeing how fumbly and rocky it was).
“Love” might also not be the romantic/sexual kind. I love my friends, too… enough to take a bullet for them. But I don’t want to do the horizontal hokey-pokey with them.
Billie may well have been unaware of the depths of Alice’s feelings towards her, but the alt-text makes it clear that they were lovers as well as friends.
I thought the alt-text was a tongue-in-cheek comment about the car wreck, not their “friendship.” I’m not really sure why that was the impression that I got, but it seemed more humorous than “hur-de-hur, girls sometimes try sexy stuff with their friends.”
The alt-text refers directly to this (see link below), although I understand what you’re getting at. I see how you could have thought that, but the referenced strip removes that ambiguity. It is funnier your way though, but it was only intended as a reference/reminder, not humor.
And so, another minor Roomies character goes off into the wilderness to die. Maybe. I hope not.
Incidentally, “Drama Hurricane” is going to be my next Tumblr URL.
Forgiveness and second chances are not obligatory. Everyone has a right to withhold that as they wish. Billie is not in the best of states right now anyway, attempt at change or not.
No joke. Billie hurt her terribly in the past, and Alice — wisely — walked away. She has absolutely no responsibility to let herself be drawn back into a relationship with someone who so blithely did her such harm.
It’s gonna be a long ass three to four years for all the characters so I would be surprised if Alice is a one and done. Especially after that drama bomb she just dropped.
I hope so. I’d prefer not to have any more new recurring characters, especially ones that just cause the audience to feel anger and resentment instead of amusement or happiness, at least until a few older ones get written out.
Being true doesn’t make it something that should be said, not like this, not now. If she had to call Billie poison it should have been when she decided she couldn’t be around Billie anymore. Not after sneaking away and hiding for months, letting Billie keep thinking they still were on good terms. And she never should have told Walky and Joyce to abandon Billie as well.
“Hi Alice. Go Dragons!” = “Wasn’t High School GREAT! Let’s go get smashed and wreck a car, maybe kill someone this time!”How do we know Alice didn’t talk to Billie about that? We just heard Alice say that Billie was in denial about it which was both sad and scary for Alice. We do know Billie showed up at IU wanting and expecting to be Cool Queen Bee. And why didn’t Billie get in touch with Alice over the summer? Why was it all on Alice? Alice is starting to cry as she leaves. I don’t see grounds for blaming Alice for doing what she had to to escape Billie’ s undertow OR to think that now Billie is ready for Alice to save her.
Eh, she tried being nice, it wasn’t cutting it in heavy traffic, sometimes you just gotta let someone have it. Remember this is clearly painful for Alice too, she quite clearly had very intense feelings for Billie, and had to go cold turkey, so Billie showing up opened some old wounds of hers too.
Alice was willing at first to excuse herself politely. But after Billie’s final comment in the previous comic, if she left without explanation, Billie would believe it was because of Walky and Joyce’s presence and feel like SHE had the moral high ground while Alice was being an asshole. I think THAT was what forced Alice to call Billie out on the real reason for her departure.
No can do, if it still gets a piece of you every day. No matter how long ago it was. Hence the classic shrink opening… ‘tell me about your parents/childhood’ – as the imprint is there, and too often forcing its way in years later, then withdrawing, (rinse repeat) – because for the antagonist, ANY response even if negative, is better than no response.
10, and they just paid the insurance claims for the last 10,000 victims, or denied for the last time, in July. Most of them were denied, a few were finally paid off.
If by “blow over” you mean “become an impossible weather phenomenon that always turns around and strikes again as soon as everyone whose still alive pokes their head out to see if it’s gone”….. Cuz I think that’s more likely for this comic….
I was 17 when I started college. I remember being disappointed that my 18th birthday would be mere days AFTER the day to vote in the presidential elections (you have to be 18+ to vote).
But then my state picked the guy I would’ve voted for anyway, so it didn’t matter.
Point is, there are totally people below 18 in American colleges.
They are phrasing it as though, “Well, didn’t matter anyway because So-and-so became president regardless” but THERE ARE ELECTIONS OTHER THAN PRESIDENT
is what I’m saying, not the “rock the vote even though you can’t”
I don’t know about the mid-West but in California you have to be 5 before the 1st of September to start school or you start the next year. My son is Dec and my God Daughter is February so they’ll both be 18 4 to 5 months before they graduate so it’s feasible that Billie and Alice could both be adults by there second semester of High School. Interesting things can happen after the end of the school year pep rally.
Yeah, that’s about what I expected. And yeah, she’s a bongo. Not for wanting to get away from Billie but the way she says everything here. When someone is self-destructive you try to help them, even if you can’t do it yourself, you don’t call them poison and try to get other people to abandon them as well.
Why is everyone acting like Alice has some obligation to not be angry at the girl who slept with her and then apparently treated her like shit, who Alice claims not to feel safe around? Jesus, she’s crying in panel 4, cut her some slack.
Where are you getting the idea she slept with her?
And she has a right to be angry, she has a right to cut Billie out of her life. However she made no effort to help Billie get out of her self destructive, she saw Billie was self-destructive to the point of her life being in danger even to those around her and instead of trying to help or even calling her parents or anything she just cut Billie off and left her to self destruct.
Alice saying she thought she loved Billie. And Walky’s comment about sexually-transmitted drama in the last panel. More importantly, the alt-text is a direct quote from Billie from that past strip where she implied she had experimented with girls before. When she told Joyce “everyone tries it eventually”.
And put it in that light, I think Alice does have the right to avoid a self-destructive ex who clearly still has a lot of power over her emotions.
How do you know that? Alice says that Billie blew off the seriousness of a drunken car wreck. Isn’t that consistent with Alice trying to talk to her and Billie blowing her off? Billie didn’t change after the wreck and frightened Alice.
They forgot that Alice most likely has no idea what Billie has been experiencing during the whole DoA comic and going by what she said, she isn’t likely to care anymore even if she did find out.
I think if I were Alice, I’d have a hard time believing it. Forget “second chance”– Alice has probably already given Billie way more chances than that.
I forgot nothing, I’m judging her based on her total abandonment of someone she claimed to care about despite realising said person was self destructing to the point her life was in danger.
Sometimes, the hope is that, by watching the people they love walk away from them, the self-destructive friend will wake the fuck up and get the help they need.
It may not be the best strategy, but sometimes when somebody is far enough down the rabbit hole, it’s the only thing you can do to keep yourself from being pulled in with them.
Yes, but that hope isn’t there because she didn’t tell Billie she’d lost a friend, she just quietly disappeared and hoped that was the end of it. I’m all for the ‘you fucked up, I can’t take it anymore so I’m leaving’ wake up call, and even sticking with it if they do change. But that’s not what Alice did.
Wally and friend are the help she needs, and she just told them not to bother.
Alice is not in her best state of mind right now.
It was great when it all began.
She was a regular Billie fan.
But it was over when shit hit the fan.
She want to hurt her just to hear her screaming her name.
Don’t want to touch her but she’s under her skin, deep in.
She wants to kiss her but her lips taste of alcohol poison.
There’s poison running through her veins.
I don’t think Billie is actually going sober at this point… although it’s true that she probably hasn’t had a drink in long enough that her blood is currently alcohol-free.
They have to be willing to help themselves first. Nobody, least of all a highschool student, can cure another of their self-destructive tendencies against their will.
Yes, but they CAN still talk to their parents, or a friend’s parents, or a counsellor about getting her help and you can tell them ‘Hey, your behaviour is dangerous, I can’t handle this any more, you need to sort yourself out because you are harming me too’. Ignoring people never gets a message across – it doesn’t tell them why you are ignoring them or if you are actually upset or why you are upset if they do think you are.
Self-care is important, but it doesn’t mean you get away with ignoring someone suddenly then EXPLODING at them when they actually are finally learning – that is just being a jerk. :/
Meh. Seems like a weird game to play. “You must take steps 1-3 before you’re allowed to cut yourself off from the situation or start lashing out in anger”. Don’t think this sort of thing can really be boiled down into rules as precise as that.
That aside, pretty sure after Billie got the DUI all the relevant parties knew about her problem anyway. Alice specifically points out that Billie thought everything was fine even at that point. Was Alice supposed to start crowd-funding some sort of “Fix Billie” militia on kickstarter?
… What if they don’t leave? If. The only way to stop someone as self destructive as Billie was, as painful as going through that, and more than likely the intense drama that surrounded them, was to hurt her, in order to preserve her own state of mind.
What would be right?
You can’t help her until she wants help. An easy thing to say, but much harder to understand.
She obviously didn’t give any of her actions much weight, especially given how she acted towards the beginning of the comic.
Maybe some.
But not enough to change her actions.
And here.
She gives just the barest hint of a realization.
Alice isn’t being nice.
But, if I’m reading this right, she is trying to protect herself.
From what she perceives Billie to be.
If calling her poison, is the only way to get her to understand that she no longer wants to be her friend, especially after she broke contact all summer, then I understand.
I don’t believe it was the best way to go about it.
But, I can understand.
I think the only thing I’ll add is that, based on what Alice says, this isn’t her just up and leaving Billie; she tried before, but Billie didn’t go along with it. We have no idea how hard/long Alice tried to help Billie, but it was enough for her to feel like it was a lost cause. And, except for her ‘epiphany’ (which really is an epiphany, Billie’s being going on about how uncool and beneath her Joyce and Walky are for weeks now), there’s almost no sign Billie’s changed during this meeting with Alice. She greeted Alice with ‘Go Dragons!’, is still wearing her high school colors, and pretty much ignored Alice’s hints that she didn’t really want to start a conversation (not to mention, ignored whoever Alice was sitting with).
So, we know Billie is trying to change, but Alice doesn’t, and Alice has been down this road before and doesn’t want to start again for her own safety.
no I’m sorry you’re so wrong here. I had a “friend” similaar to Billie – self destructive and harmful. Of all our friends, I tried the hardest to get her to not go down the path of drunkenness and self harm and running back to abusive boyfriends.
Some people YOU cannot help. For fuck’s sake, some people need PHDs before they can help other people!!! I tried my damn hardest to help my friend and it did jack nothing. She had to get herself better all by herself. Thankfully, she has, but sadly on the way she burned every bridge she ever built. I’m glad she’s no longer doing drugs and working full time. But I don’t want her in my life anymore.
Alice here aid he thought he loved Billie – but then realized how destructive Billie was to herself when she crashed a car! Alice had no ability to right or was forced to help Billie, ESPECIALLY as she has no proof, no set proof that Billie has changed.
Between the ‘drama hypercane’ and ‘Drama Cane Toad’, now I’m imagining a ‘Hypno Drama Toad’ similar to the Hypno Toad on Futurama, but it induces drama in whoever looks at it.
At least Alice’s feeling bad about what she’s saying, but I’m still leaning toward the “bongo” end of the opinion spectrum. Billie needs to hear what’s being said, but this seems to be too harshly delivered after learning that Billie’s getting some self awareness.
Sometimes breaking away from someone goes to this level of anger. Heck, I’m even a bit envious at Alice for having been given a chance to explode like this and doing so.
Aww!!!! I fucking knew it I fucking knew it!!! (I went through a sexuality arc a little bit like Billie’s. I messed around with other girls all the time in highschool but I was ‘straight’. Came out like the end of my first year college/beginning of my second.)
alt-texts are often jokes. And Billie hasn’t really been acting like someone with any actual experience with homosexual attraction. It’s all seemed like sucha surprise for her so far. Even Walky’s comment could have different meanings. Maybe he’s saying they slept together, maybe he’s just assuming they slept together, maybe Billie previously slept with a guy who was also a drama hurricane. Maybe it’s just a way to imply that she picked up being a drama hurricane from him because they slept together, platonically, the previous night.
I accept that I could be wrong, I just didn’t want to make an assumption there. Perhaps I’ve misread Billie entirely. I’m not good at reading real people let alone fictional ones.
“I thought I loved you” is pretty straightforward more-than-friends talk. Not that close friendships aren’t loving (I tell friends that I love them all the time), but had their relationship been platonic Alice probably would have said something more along the lines of “I thought we were friends” or “I thought you were my best friend.”
Or maybe she loved her and Billie didn’t know about it? It’s pretty easy to have someone have strong feelings for you and for them not to tell you. It’s not something that only straight guys do.
The facial expression would be pretty much the same in that case.
Maybe their bff sexual experimentation led to interpersonal interactions like eyefucking where you wouldn’t need a clue bat to figure out they’re getting it on. Besides, walky is not actually a complete idiot, and does understand social nuances sometimes.
Well I mean the implication from yesterday was that Walky is generally made to disappear when Billie and Alice were in proximity to one another, giving him a lot less chances to figure it out.
Alternatively, given his teasing Joyce for her somewhat obsessive behavior towards Dorothy, it could be a “broken clock right twice a day” situation.
Okay, after looking back at the last couple of comics, I hadn’t realized that Alice was eating with someone, and I had just assumed that Alice had been trying to get rid of Walky and Joyce. (You can only see the person Alice is with in the first comic she shows up in, I believe.) So, it jumped from ‘Eh… Nerds…’ to ‘Self Destructive Billie? I’m out of here.’
So even though Alice sees first hand that Billie has literally had a revelation, she still chooses to just walk away wih those words?
Protecting yourself is one thing, but if someone you think you LOVE is standing right there and saying the old her is not who she wants to be you’re STILL going to just drop that bombshell and walk Away??
Billie literally just got busted for lying about this shit two days ago. Let’s not judge Alice too harshly for failing to fall to her knees in recognition of this stunning turnaround.
Okay guys, here’s a fun project for the night, let’s compare the different approaches Sarah and Alice had for dealing with a self-destructive friend who was putting their own life in danger.
I think you’re expecting too much from someone who is still after all a teenager. Sarah is unusually mature for her age, plus she was stuck with Dana as a roommate so she had to take action. Plus, cutting someone off politely is better than enabling them.
Plus, if she was best friends with Billie, she probably wasn’t too mature to begin with. Judging by Walky’s reaction, shunning people is probably how she deals with people she doesn’t want to talk to.
Poor Alice getting beaten up in the comments. Tried her hardest to kindly and politely avoid her ex-girlfriend (a self-admitted former mean girl), who things clearly ended horribly with, and then when she can’t handle it and blows up y’all call her a passive-aggressive bongo.
I think it’s because we’re all privvy to Billie as a not-so-bad person, so we feel for Billie. We don’t really feel for Alice because we’ve had so little time with her.
Yeah, true. I guess as someone with a self-destructive and horribly unhealthy ex who certainly held emotional power over me and expected me to be there with them through every step of their road to mental health, and hated me when I told them they needed to find someone who wasn’t their ex-girlfriend to do that…. yeah, I’m inclined to give Alice the benefit of the doubt.
For the record, it is absolutely, 100% not your responsibility to help your ex–for any reason. I know you already know that. I just wanted to tell you I think you’re right.
Ok, I guess I have a clue now (sometimes I’m a bit slow…):
Those who were in a similar situation like Alice here can connect and understand her behaviour. Those who weren’t, can’t.
If this assumption is true, then it’s a bit ignorant of those who don’t know Alice’s situation to not even TRY to get to her point of view.
“Don’t bother me with reasons, she’s a bongo. Period.” #-)
You know how you successfully avoid someone? Tell them straightforward you don’t want to be around them anymore when they finally go too far. Don’t just quietly cut ties and then be surprised when they still think you have a relationship. Could have saved us this whole scene, them both this awkward moment and maybe done Billie some good months ago.
Problem was, Alice most likely did NOT have that strength of character and had to break away, so she did what was necessary even if it was messy. Even now she has just enough to stand up and tell Billie off, and JUST THAT – yes, she does run in the end, and yes for her own protection again.
I imagine if they simply had not met again after the accident, it was simpler just to let the friendship “fade” rather than going out of her way to spell it out. Usually, this is better BECAUSE if you happen to have a change of heart, the other person doesn’t need to know about the being cut off.
But then they met again, and oops, drama spill at table two.
1. Some people just are not confrontational sorts of people. That’s often a basic personality trait that people have very little ability to change, especially not when they themselves are still just learning how to get along in the world.
2. Back in highschool, Billie was one of the popular folks. Which means that if someone pissed her off, she could easily have made life bad for them.
I agree, not only that but look at her face in the third panel, the distress and tears that are forming under her eyes. She is about to break down seeing and being forced to deal with her ex again so an emotional outburst is not uncalled for. It does not make her a bongo. Besides how does she know that this ‘epiphany’ is even going to actually change Billie or if she’ll ignore it.
As timemonkey says.
Alice could have staged an intervention of sorts, tried to help her friend. Said something. If nothing else, let her friend know that all bets were off and they should keep their distance. Instead, she just kind of let things hang, and then got angry and offended when Billie assumed they were still friends.
I’m not going to say that Billie is a good guy here, but I’m DEFINITELY not siding with Alice.
We don’t know what Alice tried before. The way she’s talking here makes it sound like this isn’t ‘I realized you need help and ran off at the first sign’. It sounds like ‘I tried before, and you ignored it, and trying to help may cost me more than just hurt feelings’.
Here’s the problem, Billie is just now finding out she’s an ex -months- after it happened. It sounds like she knew Billie would be here, that she might run into her. But instead of nipping the problem in the bud and making sure billie didn’t bother, she avoided the issue completely. This would not be an issue if someone, I’m not even saying it had to be alice, told her they weren’t friends anymore.
I realize that Willis keeps telling us that Billie’s not lesbian, but, damn, I can’t see how he can play it any other way now. She’s had at least two same-sex love affairs, and the business of throwing herself at someone of the opposite sex is totally characteristic of trying desperately to stay in the closet to yourself.
It’s not really a question of ‘could be’ or being open for doubt. It’s been confirmed multiple times over that character’s orientations have not been changed for DOA, and Walkyverse Billie… Well: http://www.itswalky.com/2013/09/23/its-bi-visibility-day/
Wait… you doubt her being bi or pan because she tried to sleep with Danny?
Attracted to all/multiple genders is the standard definition of bi- and pansexuality, last I checked.
It’s Schrodinger’s sexuality. The person aligns to a monosexuality the moment they make sexual contact with someone of the same or opposite sex OR they die of radiation poisoning when you open the box.
Especially irritating is that using Passive/Aggressive labeling in this context and 99% of the others has absolutely NOTHING to do with what it actually means – but nobody will bother consulting a DSM to learn something new and stop misusing terms that make them look like idiots to everyone not 25 years old or less.
Mostly because those crapping on Alice, don’t consider how she clearly she wanted to start over her life without a massively self destructive person present.
Seriously, Billie was a drunk driver who had no remorse until she reached college.
Why would Alice want to hang around that? Loving yourself is the FIRST rule.
I guess I’m one of the few who actually has no problem with how Alice handled this. Yes, it’s nice that Billie has shown some improvement, but she can’t just pretend that her past fuck-ups didn’t happen. Alice has no obligation to hold in her own feelings for the benefit of someone who hurt her.
It’s not about how Billie has changed, or if she deserves another chance. It’s how Alice went about both abandoning her in her time of need and not even having the decency to tell her she was being abandoned.
I’m not exactly sure why Alice would have told Billie that the relationship was over, especially since Alice has indicated that Billie was unable to see that her own self-destructive behavior was even an issue. If Alice was fearing for her own safety, then I don’t blame her for skipping that conversation.
1. To make a point to Billie that it was her self destructive behaviour that was the problem and that this was a direct consequence of that
2. so Billie wouldn’t seek her out assuming they were still friends as has happened in the current storyline.
Just slinking off does nothing but create later problems.
And sometimes you just got to save yourself, and deal with the stuff later. Life isn’t as neat as we wish it to be.
Remember: Alice isn’t reading the comic, she’s being thrust into it at what turns out to be an ugly time for her. It’s not her job to be kind to a friend whom she had to hide away from in order to save herself.
She doesn’t have to be nice now. That’s not what I’ve been saying. I am saying she went too far right now. I know she didn’t plan it and she’ll probably regret it but she went too far.
I dunno, I’ve known people who do not learn from carefully worded “look, you’re not on the right track” speeches (especially e-mail), and Alice’s remarks may have been the best way to get through to her the severity of the infractions.
Does Alice know this is Billie’s time of need? No.
Alice just sees a face from the past that she had desperately wished to never see again, and just wants to get the hell out. Not everyone has the ability to tell someone to get lost when they decide to do so.
Just my opinion, but I don’t care that this caused problems for Billie. Her past, her mistakes. If anything it may have helped Alice to get those emotions out in the open. So, good for Alice.
I can respect that you have a different perspective.
Okay, I am not defending Billie. Billie has fucked up. She made her bed and is now laying in it. Alice had every right to sever ties with her and I don’t really care how sad Billie is about it. I;m saying she should have got those emotions out months ago. Leave a message on her phone if she can’t bare to face her directly, but she should have told Billie she was ending things.
Should have, yes. But sometimes, especially if the other person is prone to bursts of anger, and they’re someone you care about, you end up trying to just ignore things and hope it goes away, because you don’t want to deal with the confrontation that will happen. You know it’s wrong, but you do it anyways, then once a certain time passes, you feel so guilty about not telling them straight up that you keep avoiding it, and it piles on itself, and sometimes ends up like this. Alice probably knows she said that all wrong, but in the heat of emotions pent up for months, people say what they feel, but definitely not how it ‘should’ be said.
So if Billie thought they were such great friends why didn’t SHE contact Alice over the summer? It was on Alice to continue to hang onto Billie as she continued to deny her drinking was a problem and wouldn’t listen to anyone? Yeah, GO DRAGONS! Anyone want to bet she didn’t put Alice through the same roller coaster ride for months or years that she did to Ruth recently … and Walky who she trained to disappear when cool kids were around.
Alice owed her nothing. Billie fucked up badly, and after years of being in an abusive relationship, Alice wanted part of it no longer. Fight or flight. She chose to run. Nothing wrong with that.
Didn’t I once read on Cracked that science has shown that the smell of women’s tears attack men right in the cajones (as in, literally)?
Um, yes, I consider a list-based comedy site a factual source. Sorry.
Also Cracked once claimed that men tend to see situations as something solvable – meaning that they can be solved – meaning that their causes are accessible to the man to manipulate – meaning that they could have done something – meaning that they should have done something – meaning that if they see a woman crying it’s their fault she’s doing so (if it’s even theoretically possible). Which makes them defensive, especially when the woman ‘refuses’ to tell the man what he did. And so yelling and breakups and the hiring of assassins and the usual. Yes it makes us seem narcissistic…which doesn’t make it sound any less plausible to me.
If that happened, it would likely break Billie. How? Most likely “Blank expression, going through the motions of life, leading to a cold and lonely death from OD’ing on sleeping pills” break. Seriously, that actually happened to a guy I knew in highschool offed himself after two of his exes flat-out ignored him most of the time, and when they did speak to him it was with contempt. After he found out they were dating, he took his own life. The entire school, myself included, flat-out hated the two girls who broke him mentally Difference with him was he actually did absolutely nothing wrong
I don’t really think Alice is being that much of a bongo here. She’s being harsh, yes, but she has no idea about anything Billie has gone through at the moment, and all she sees at this time is Billie wearing her old school jacket, acting like it’s old high school times, and automatically assumes that Alice doesn’t want to be there because of Billie’s dorky friends. Billie’s FRIENDS. Not BILLIE. Billie was trying to show how much she’s grown by trying to defend Joyce and Walky, yet couldn’t even conceive Alice may have been uncomfortable because of HER. And if that’s true, chances are Billie may have been blind to how Alice felt a LOT back in high school, and Alice, at this point, decided she was tired of Billie ignoring her feelings.
My guess is Alice probably put up with a lot from Billie during high school, and she probably felt the best thing she could do after they graduated was to cut contact with her and focus on her own well being. And besides, is this the first time we’ve ever heard of Alice? Did Billie ever try contacting anyone from her high school?
Alice looks like someone who, unfortunately, had her own issues with Billie, and those issues just happened to come up at the worst possible time for everyone.
At least, that’s how it looks to me. I could be wrong.
She has already received the Judgement of Sucks for not remembering Walky’s name because he is the awesomest. Additionally she doesn’t actually care enough to warn others away from a problem, she just wants to twist the knife in Billie.
I doubt she’s as harsh as you’re making her out to be. Sounds like she’s been put through hell and doesn’t want anyone else to go through what she did.
Even Billie’s “interesting” friend Wally expected that A&B would want their privacy.
Billie used to be head cheerleader until she was thrown off the team for getting caught driving while drunk. And that seems to be when her main squeeze abandoned her without notice.
Well, I didn’t see the ex-lover angle coming. Doesn’t seem like Billie did either. I’m not sure Walky is correct that they actually ever slept together, but if they did, I doubt it meant as much to Billie as it did to Alice. “We were just best friends… but we experimented a little of course. Doesn’t everybody?”
This could still turn out to be very good for Billie if she makes the obvious connection between Alice’s disappointment and Ruth’s disappointment and (this is the tricky part) makes sure that the things she did to upset them both are the parts of “old Billie” she buries. But she could just as easily say “wellp, just learned I was as worthless a drag on everyone in high school as I was in college, nice to have that last illusion shattered, where’s the booze.”
If there was ever a moment that called for the best Joyce has to offer, this is it.
I definitely don’t think that Alice is obligated to Billie in any way, but I also think that telling Walky and Joyce to stop being friends with her was just a little too far. Like, how does Alice even know for sure that Billie hasn’t changed? And in what world is making sure they have no friends the proper way to deal with someone who already has no respect for their own life?
I mean, I understand cutting someone off for your own good. And I understand getting angry that Billie wouldn’t take the hint! What I don’t understand is trying to sabotage (no matter how off-handed it was) that person’s personal life when it has nothing do with you anymore.
If she was interested in the wellbeing of others she’d be worried about Billie instead of just writing her off. She basically saying ‘Billie’s not worth it, she’ll only hurt you as she hurts herself, just leave her to die on her own’.
It’s what makes her a bongo. Deciding to cut someone out of your own life is acceptable. Good sense even. Trying to stop other people from helping? That is unacceptable. She knows Billie is endangering her own life and not only does she not try to help, a person choice I can accept, but she’s actively interfering in Billie get help from other people. That’s horrible.
If you’ve seen someone try to wreck your life, are you going to let said person wreck another’s life? I say no, you do what you can, come hell or high water, to save everyone who comes in contact with that person. And as far as Alice knows, Walky and Joyce were Billie’s friends, not her handmaidens towards healing.
Friends are a persons handmaidens towards healing. Billie will not get better on her own, she needs help, she needs support, she needs to know she’s loved and has value. All isolation will do is fuel her depression and lead to her death.
Have you ever actually had a friend or family member with a highly self-destructive streak? Believe me, as someone who has, Billie’s ex-friend comes off as a highly sympathetic character.
Is Billie trying to be better? Well she says she is, but how is someone who has only ever been dragged down by her supposed to believe that for even a second? And seriously, what is the one the first things Billie says to her? GO DRAGONS! Because yeah, reveling in the spirit of school you don’t even go to anymore totally says she has moved on with her life.
Billie’s ex-friend is not a bongo. She is a perfectly reasonable human being exhibiting a totally legitimate emotional response to a highly rational realization. This sub-arc isn’t about “Billie’s bongoy Friend.” Its about “Billie is force fed some especially bitter crow.”
The more validation you give people in Billie’s position, the more likely they are to fall back to their old ways. They need to realize full and well how much they suck as a person so they can muster up the motivation to get better. That is half of what steps 8 thru 10 of the 12 Steps are about. No one owes them forgiveness and validation. THEY owe the other person an apology.
Don’t forget, too, though, that we still don’t know the details of what went down with them in the past in this universe. We know Billie got drunk and got in an accident, and we know that Alice thought Billie didn’t take that seriously enough, and we know that she hasn’t talked to Billie since high school.
But we don’t know what actually went down with them. Alice says Billie didn’t take it seriously enough, which sort of indicates to me that she might have tried to talk to Billie about it at the time, so this may not just be Alice suddenly blowing up at her from out of the blue or with no prior attempts to help Billie.
Don’t forget, too, that the odds that Billie was pretty drunk at any time Alice might have been wanting to talk to her or help her are probably pretty high as well, from what we’ve seen so far. And yes, Billie is trying to turn her life around, and to stop drinking and to be more responsible–and she’s been doing that for what, a week, in-comic? Two?
What I mean is that, yes, we know that Billie is going through a rough patch, but we don’t know what might have happened between them in the past in this universe; and Alice has no way to know that the Billie who, what, last week or so? was the same Billie as in high school, is now trying to make any kind of positive changes in her life.
Billie hasn’t been trying to turn her life around, and she definitely hasn’t tried to stop drinking. She’s mostly been passive and let things happen around her. It’s just now that she’s admitted to herself that she wants to change.
Chiming in that Ex got sick and passed out once, and friends did all the rational things to help–got Ex outside (better place to barf), kept watch, etc. while Useless Friend did nothing but panic the whole time… Ex only remembers Useless Friend “helping” and criticized everyone else for not helping.
So, still can’t feel like Alice has done anything wrong, sorry.
Oh, man, I completely forgot to add that in. I mean, sure, Alice is hurt, but now it seems less like an unthinking throwaway sentence and more like a jab personally designed to hurt Billie.
After all, who else would know that Billie fears being unloved and alone more than anything else?
Having been married to a self distructive alchoholic for too many years, I agree with what Alice did. She got away from her.
You can only spend so much time trying to ‘save’ someone who is not interested or perhaps ready, in saving themselves. You just can not do it for them. The more you help them, the more they take.
I tried for 15 years. That’s enough.
Billie has realized finally, what is going on. I really like her character. I want to see her grab her bootstraps and haul herself up.
Looks like she put Alice thru what she is putting, or tired to put, Ruth through. Ruth recognized it and backed off.
Telling Walky and Joyce to stay away was overkill and uncalled for. But, see the tears. She still cares. And she obviously hurts. So, when you hurt you strike back.
I’m sorry for Billie. She’s had a Hell of a week? month?. time. But she has a chance, Walky and Joyce no going anyway I think.
I’m with you, although I’d even support her telling Walky and Joyce to get out of Billie’s life.
Having had someone warn me about a certain woman who ended up turning on me (not much harm done, and I actually got a measure of revenge on her without doing much of anything, but still…), I understand FULLY Alice’s warnings to Walky and Joyce. If you can prevent someone doing harm, you do what you can – even if it seems a bit much.
I wouldn’t object if she’d merely given them a warning about the potential harmful consequences of hanging out with Billie. Instead she advised total abandonment. That’s going too far.
Not really. If abandonment is the only thing that worked, you’re going to advocate for abandonment in that case. If listening would have worked, there would have been no blowup and no need to advise total abandonment.
That was High School Cheerleader Billie. Billie didn’t start growing until college where she was no longer alpha female and her only friend not from high school or childhood was Joyce. Chances are she might not have listened or cared.
I doubt anyone who says that really believes that advice will be taken. It just emphasizes that Alice (in this case) tried her best* and failed, so they shouldn’t hope that they will do any better. It’s like when doctors tell patients they will never walk again–they don’t want the patients to try only to fail and inadvertently believe it’s their own shortcomings for not being able to walk again.
*this part is up for debate, but basically SHE has not seen evidence that Billie could change
To people snubbing Alice for how she didn’t make a clean sever, let’s put it this way; Dorothy did pretty much the same thing; in fact, going by what little we know, she did even less since she probably interacted with Danny over summer, unlike Alice who tried to give Billie a message by not talking to her at all.
Dorothy’s situation was different. She was just going to break up with him and merely put it off too long, it was never stated they wouldn’t interact anymore, they had friends in common and lived really close to each other. The important thing is Dorothy DID end it, to his face, even if he still doesn’t really grasp why he at least knew it was over that night.
Except that Dorothy didn’t expect Danny to follow her to college. She worried that he was only going to IU because of her. Which he was.
Yes, Dorothy handled it better in that she eventually did break up with him, but if Danny didn’t go to IU as well chances are she might have been hoping they’d eventually just fall out of the relationship without saying so.
I don’t think Dorothy was set about breaking up with him though. Notice how she brought up his lack of goals rather than breaking up with him immediately? She wanted to be with someone that had their own goals past being with her, and had their own life outside of her, and BELIEVED in her.
Danny however gave her the final push to break up with him by saying ‘you might stay here’, indicating that she might give up her dreams for him.
She also knew he was following her to college. She wasn’t happy about it, but only because she knew he was just following her. She has no problem with Danny as a person, he’s just not someone she can have a relationship with. And she didn’t even decide to dump him until after they were already there. Had he reacted differently to their talk she may not have called it off, but he refused to acknowledge her goals and how important they were to her, instead choosing to be dismissive and passive aggressive about them.
Dorothy took too long to make the decision, Alice made the decision but didn’t bother to tell Billie about it.
Ruth can do that. First she can hug Alice, ’cause they got so much in common.
Then she can hug Billie, ’cause thats what Billie want
Then Billie can hug Ruth, ’cause thats what Ruth want.
Then someone can explain what the fuck is going on to Walky.
This is a work of fiction. If the one failed call were insignificant, it wouldn’t have been shown to the audience.
For another thing, pay attention to what Joyce is saying in that page and the one immediately following. Becky is Joyce’s Godly comfort zone in a severely discomforting environment. Since their last shown phone call, Joyce was targeted for sexual assault, discovered she likes a modern cartoon series more than her old singing bible show, stood up to her parents on a godless person’s behalf, and discovered she had lustful thoughts. These are things Joyce would absolutely call Becky about, as they would sound like she is straying from a Christian’s path. If a call had taken place already, Becky would likely have either reassured Joyce (causing her to be less afraid about everything) or condemned Joyce (which would be big enough to get panel-time).
If Joyce had got in contact with Becky then she would sought comfort from Becky instead of talking with Dorothy and overhearing Walky’s thoughts about her. It’s better for the plot for Becky to be unavailable but in character for Joyce to want to talk to Becky.
EXACTLY. Either Becky doesn’t want to talk to Joyce due to offscreen drama that will come to light when they finally speak again, or Becky CANNOT talk to Joyce for a while (for example maybe she lost her phone or something) and will be blown away by all the stuff that Joyce has experienced in the meanwhile when they eventually do speak again. It could lead to Becky passing judgment on her and severing ties, or it could lead to a heartwarming acceptance and reconciliation, or a bit of both. Either way, there’s a story to be told here, and that’s why I voted for Becky. (When I voted, she was third from the bottom. Now she’s at the very bottom, and I do like an underdog story.)
How the hell can people seriously judge Alice and call her a bongo when we’ve been sitting here this whole time watching Billie be a self-destructive drama hurricane and hurt those she loves? Alice is right about Billie. She is literally, objectively right! The fact that Billie has just had an epiphany about what a hot mess she is doesn’t mean Alice should just immediately forgive her and pretend her own feelings don’t exist. Yeah, Billie’s had a hard time, Alice doesn’t know that, nor is it her responsibility. Shaming someone for cutting an abusive person of their life is fucked up.
I bet that was really difficult for Alice….Especially since a lot of the weight Billie gained made her boobs super huge. That girl is stronger then people give her credit for.
I know the pattern now. Whenever it appears that Billie’s state of being might improve in some way it basically means something traumatic and awful is about to happen in the strip immediately following.
So she’s not hit by a truck, she’s hit by a boomerang.
And this boomerang doesn’t physically exist, it’s just a metaphysical entity that hits her mind, her soul, her inner self. No physical damage done (so far).
Well, this is it. There’s no way I can think of of how Billie’s life can get any crappier than it already is. You know, unless a pie were to fly in here face in the next strip.
That assumes her response to hitting the bottom is to take the initiative to change things; she could also end up spiraling into clinical depression, which is on the opposite end of the spectrum to “best thing that can happen”.
Wow. I’m surprised at the vitriol Alice is receiving in the comments section. She stated that her situation was going on with Billie for *years*. That’s an awfully long time to be in (what appears to be) an abusive relationship. People are accusing Alice of suddenly abandoning Billie, but in a situation like this, it’s much more likely she tried multiple times to help Billie, maybe even tried to walk away a few times (maybe not, I don’t know) and that the DUI/wreck was the last straw. And suddenly Billie just shows up, acting very high school (“GO DRAGONS!” wearing the colors, acting like nothing happened, not thinking it was weird they hadn’t talked all summer), so Alice has no reason to believe Billie has grown or changed. And honestly, Billie’s growth has only been over a few weeks, that’s not enough time to actually make Billie safe enough for Alice to be around. (I’m saying this as someone who has had a lot of experience with an alcoholic who would be better for weeks, even months before relapsing)
Alice has suffered a lot of pain because of Billie and to expect her to be perfectly kind to the person who caused her that pain is a bit much to ask her. Put another way, if this was Amber and her dad, would people say Amber was unjustified if she blew up at him like this? Would people defend the dad and say he didn’t deserve it? Not that Billie is as bad as Amber’s dad, but to the people they hurt, there’s probably not much of a difference.
As much as I would like to see Alice more in this comic, sometimes relationships are broken past the point of mending. Alice owes Billie nothing. If she never chooses to give Billie another chance, that’s totally fair.
And maybe this will help Billie in the long run. Sometimes a harsh and shocking wake-up call to reality is what someone needs.
But I don’t think it’s entirely fair for her to just now be saying that she doesn’t want to be around her anymore.
That’s something she should have done at the end of the school year, at the very latest. As much as it sucks what Billie did to her, Billie at least should know that she had burned that bridge, instead of Alice allowing her to think that they were still friends.
It would have been a lot healthier for both of them, as Alice could feel as though she had finally cut the ties that were killing her, and Billie would have had the whole summer to evaluate her life and her choices.
If that were the case, then perhaps she would have stopped drinking and other self-destructive behaviors. (I’m not saying drinking is a self-destructive behavior, but in the hands of Billie, it is.)
She could have been of sound mind at the beginning of the semester and been careful with how she treats her friends and her own body.
She could have been sober when Joyce was being drugged.
She could have helped Ruth instead of breaking her trust.
If Alice had just been upfront with her about not wanting to be around her, then the potential for a lot of good things would have been opened. They wouldn’t necessarily have *had* to happen, but the possibility for Billie becoming a better person much sooner could have made a huge difference.
Things like this are life-changing, and I don’t think it happening in such a jarring manner are beneficial to either of them.
It could have been a clean break for Alice, instead of letting her heart get ripped out again.
It could have been sobering and not sickening for Billie.
I don’t blame Alice for reacting this way to Billie in the current set of events.
But I do blame her for not doing it sooner and in a way that actually would have benefited Billie, instead of just damaging her and making things far more confusing.
Alice tried to walk away nicely. Alice tried to politely defuse the situation. Billie insisted on continuing a conversation that Alice was clearly done with. Billie physically detained Alice. Billie insisted on the truth and now she can’t handle the truth. Yes, Billie damaged most people she meets and helps just about none of them. Some games can only be won by not playing them, such as Thermonuclear War and Drama Hurricane. Billie is getting what she earned here.
Alright – Alice’s feelings are totally justified – but when Billie JUST SAID that she’s tired of who she is AND Alice cared enough about Billie to shed tears….well, you’d think Alice would listen. Maybe be a tad less harsh. I mean, she should say no less about how she feels, but say it in a different matter. These are things she obviously has been holding in, but when someone outright says they don’t want to be the person that drove you away…maybe they at least deserve a conversation?
Years of painful, clearly emotionally debilitating and potentially destructive experience speak much louder than one aside comment. From Alice’s perspective, it was a horrid chapter she thought was closed and now here it is again.
Alice is responding in an entirely acceptable way to a threat, and in an entirely unacceptable way to a person. Experience leads her to see Billie as a threat, and perhaps not as a person, so while her actions are ‘sort of justified’, they are not the actions that would achieve the best results in this situation.
It depends on what you define as best results and for whom. Alice clearly wants nothing more to do with Billie. This interaction may have accomplished that, so for Alice, it would be the best result.
Well, not really, as their encounter here demonstrated. Alice chose to avoid Billie instead of just telling her she didn’t want anything to do with her anymore. Since Billie was unaware of the situation there was the risk she would affectively seek or just accidentally meet with Alice, as it actually happened.
It would probably be better for both of them if Alice had been more honest.
Billie’s getting served left and right.
But with her recent decision of self-improvement, maybe she’ll take this as more motivation. Or maybe she’ll crumble.
Yeow, she already had the epiphany. That was a tidbit uncalled for, but I suppose I can see why Alice would need to get that off her chest after so long.
Oh, well done, Alice. Berate her into being a better person, that’s totally going to work. I’m sure that’s exactly what you needed back in high school – someone to let you know how worthless you are, so you can be properly motivated to get rid of the self-destructive habits you use to cope with feeling bad about yourself.
She’s not trying to berate Billie into being a better person, she clearly thinks that’s a lost cause and is trying to get away from a person she considers toxic.
I don’t understand the expectation that anybody who’s faced with a person with issues is responsible for addressing those issues and molding them into better people. Not everybody is going to be the wise magical mentor played by Morgan Freeman in the movie version.
You don’t have to fix them. You just have to *not* be a toxic person who makes those issues worse. But people will go to any lengths to justify their own bad behavior.
amazing. Billie becomes an alcoholic, crashes a car, still insists she’s fine. and yet somehow in your mind Alice is the person here who needs to do better. wow.
Everyone already knows Billie needs to do better. Billie being a massive fuck up doesn’t excuse Alice being unnecisarily cruel. This isn’t a side with one against the other thing.
lice made multiple excuses to try and back out or leave, and was clearly very uncomfortable and in the strip just before this one Billie GRABBED her by the arm and told her she was “shitty”. At that point id say Alice is justified with lashing out a little in return, nothing “unnecessary” about it. And all she really did was was a few mean true things. Also its not like she is saying them because she’s out to get Billie or wants to ruin her life. There are tears in her eyes. She once loved Billie. Alice is not coming from some evil blaine like place with this, she’s coming from a place of hurt. Sure might not have been the proper time or place, but i can hardly fault her for letting her emotions get away from her after she has again made multiple attempts to leave this situation
From a personal place on my point of view of this, I’ve had a long friendship that turned toxic, as my friend became shitty and made my life really stressful and messed up. We were never together like Billie and Alice were, but we were still friends for 10+ years. If i ran into him and he had an “epiphany” like billie’s supposed one last strip, i would probably have acted the same as Alice. After all the long, long pain and stress they put you through, and spit in your face at all your attempts to help or go back on their word, NOW they supposedly “get it”? please.
Also note the “you thought that was fine” in Alice’s speech here. The fact that she can say with complete certainty that Billie still thought she was “fine” even after her drunk accident implies that they talked about it, and that Billie continued to insist she didn’t have a problem. just like she did when Ruth caught her lying and manipulating her.
I dunno man, i guess you have a point that Alice went a bit too far, but i cant find anything in myself to blame her for it. The root of this is Billie’s fuckups. Alice got out for her safety and i applaud her for it.
Oh man, Billie’s gonna need some aloe for that burn. Sometimes the past is better left alone. I’ve seen my share of juice heads drink their lives away and ruin careers in the military and civilian life. Some people are just plain self destructive.
And remember, boys and girls, the title of the next chapter is “When Somebody Loved Me.” Billie’s managed to alienate both of the women who might have loved her…
Wow, she realizes Billy is having an epiphany, and then unloads on her anyway? Little much, I think. I know she has been carrying that around all summer, but saying that after what Billy just said is bad timing.
This is pretty much what I hoped for. Alice was uncomfortable meeting Billie not because Billie’s losing her cheerleader figure or has otherwise become uncool in Alice’s eyes, but because Alice saw her for what she was.
Still not coming off as a saint, but I wouldn’t want that either. Perfect people are boring.
if Billie needed any more motivation to try and change and be a better non destructive version alice just revealing the real reason she does not want to be her friend might have been the final key billie needs. drama hurricane.
ok wow, now im reading the comments and people are actually blaming alice of all people for this and calling her a bongo just. lol. wow. you guys have clearly never dealt with a toxic friend before
Hey look! A possible friend for Sarah. Unless Sarah disagrees with Alice’s handling of a self-destructive acquaintance, then she might tell Amazi-Girl about another suspect for the ding dong bandit list.
For my actual opinion,slightly annoyed with Alice for the TIMING of her explosion. It certainly works either way, but maybe more if the epiphany acknowledgement was placed somewhere after the explosion. I have kind of experienced both being and having a self destructive friend, so my viewpoint is a little hard to explain on this other than that this does and does not quite make sense.
I’ve been reading daily, and even Billie’s most recent confrontation with Ruth didn’t hit me so hard as this strip. Surprised at myself, I’m wiping tears out of my eyes as I write this.
Billie’s trying, right? Just…throw her one little bone. Doesn’t need to be Ruth related. Just a lil’ something.
I’ve read this strip several times and every new time, I still read “ruins everything she touches” as “ruins everything she smooches”. Maybe cause I’m always looking at Alice’s face so I’m reading in my sight periphery.
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So powerful, even Alice notices it. . .
And, doing the responsible thing, immediately tears Billie’s heart open. Because when you see someone with chronic issues finally start to make some progress, it’s important to immediately punish them for it, so they don’t develop the terrible misconception that successfully changing will mean anything to anyone they care about.
To be fair (a hard thing here I’ve noticed), Billie probably had no idea how much of an asshat she was at the time. And Alice doesn’t know that Billie is trying to change.
Though with how Billie used to be, the question remains if Alice would even believe it.
It’s not Alice’s responsibility to do what’s best for Billie. It’s her responsibility to do what’s best for HERSELF. Billie saying she doesn’t want to be her old self doesn’t automatically mean Alice should let her back into her life.
Believe it or not, Alice is the rational actor here.
I’d disagree about the rationalness of this sort of behavior is appropriate. Not being around Billie may be the best thing for Alice, especially if she isn’t strong enough or independent enough not to get sucked in. But treating someone the way she treats her in this scene or encouraging others to alienate Billy just because She couldn’t handle being a part of her life is neither rational nor ethical. Its one thing to say “I can’t be a part of your life” and another to say “No-one should be a part of your life and you are universally awful.” The first may very well be a rational response, the second rarely if ever is.
Yeah, I concede you guys are probably right. Alice clearly has a great deal of buried pain that she’s been unable to share with Billie, and it’s unfair to expect her to hold it back indefinitely for Billie’s sake. I’m just incredibly annoyed by the paradox that Alice was trying to put up a polite front for Billie right up until she realized that Billie might not be totally oblivious to her self-destructive nature anymore. I’ve seen that pattern a lot before- and I mean in real life, too- and it always completely flummoxes me.
My guess is she was afraid starting that conversation would hurt Billie, and possibly provoke her into doing something dangerous (telling a dangerous person you think they’re dangerous is frequently a not-good idea). In avoiding the topic, Alice hoped to get out of the situation while neither hurting Billie nor putting herself at risk. Then Billie brought it up herself, making it somewhat clear she knew most of it and probably wouldn’t do anything stupid if confronted with it. So Alice took a chance for some catharsis.
More like, she was afraid starting that conversation would ruin any chance she had with Billie. They were ‘best friends’, but evidence shows Billie was probably oblivious to Alice’s extended feelings toward her. As usually happens when you suppress negative feelings in favor of positive ones, the negative feelings fester and grow until they burn away all the positive ones. That seems to have happened here.
Yeah, Billie is the one that starting calling Alice “shitty”, because she thought she was doing the cool-kid thing and rejecting her “dorky friends”. I think that’s more of what set Alice off… knowing how Billie was before, how dare she say that Alice is being the shitty one.
Yes, but you don’t know how that kind of situation is going to play out. Look at what Billie’ s done to Ruth. Alice maybe should have told Billie why she was breaking off back during the summer and told her she needed to get her act together but how would that have gone before Billie’s rude awakening call at college? Even in the encounter in this arc Billie latched onto Alice as if they were still in high school, still trying to hold onto that world. Even Billie’ s “epiphany” wasn’t what Billie thought it was: Alice wasn’t down on Billie’ s “dork friends”, she was trying to evade Billie grabbing hold of her and pulling her down with her, with no reason to think it was otherwise.
loved…?
Check the alt-text. “Best friends” was a bit of an understatement.
[thanks for spelling it out, Captain Subtlety]
(That’s Captain Sub-title-y. Fixed that for you. 🙂
Nice to meet you, I am Major Disaster.
Joyce is taking the revelation far more calmly than last time.
She might not have understood what Alice meant just yet…
She was totally lesbians for Billie.
WAS been the key word there.
Aren’t we all.
I know I am…and I’m a dude! 😀
What the drama hurricane being sexually transmitted comment was to subtle for you?
OMG I also had a less than keen grasp of the obvious. Now the strip is even more heartbreaking. I want my obliviousness back. Damn you Damn Rat and Camachri!
It would appear Ruth wasn’t Billie’s first rodeo with the Sapphic side of the Force.
Might not have been Alice’s first time. From her interactions with Ruth, two things are becoming clear:
1) Billie seems to be attractive to women. This may mean she’s generally attractive (having a bit of Asian blood probably adds an exotic hint to her appearance that attracts people), or that she has some element that attracts women (not sure if such an element exists, I’m just hypothesizing).
2) Billie does not seem to be AWARE that she’s attractive to women. She knows men like her, and has used that to her advantage in the past. But it seems to me Ruth was her first Sapphic experience (seeing how fumbly and rocky it was).
Alice is Asian, though. Billie’s Asian-ness would not be exotic to Alice.
Also it is unlikely that Billie’s unaware of her own attractiveness to girls, or she’d be oblivious to Joyce’s stare.
“Love” might also not be the romantic/sexual kind. I love my friends, too… enough to take a bullet for them. But I don’t want to do the horizontal hokey-pokey with them.
Billie may well have been unaware of the depths of Alice’s feelings towards her, but the alt-text makes it clear that they were lovers as well as friends.
I thought the alt-text was a tongue-in-cheek comment about the car wreck, not their “friendship.” I’m not really sure why that was the impression that I got, but it seemed more humorous than “hur-de-hur, girls sometimes try sexy stuff with their friends.”
The alt-text refers directly to this (see link below), although I understand what you’re getting at. I see how you could have thought that, but the referenced strip removes that ambiguity. It is funnier your way though, but it was only intended as a reference/reminder, not humor.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/inevitable/
‘exotic’ ‘sapphic’ jesus, dude.
Oh.
Ohh.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
And it’s gone.
And so, another minor Roomies character goes off into the wilderness to die. Maybe. I hope not.
Incidentally, “Drama Hurricane” is going to be my next Tumblr URL.
Eh, it’d serve her right for not giving Billie a second chance.
Forgiveness and second chances are not obligatory. Everyone has a right to withhold that as they wish. Billie is not in the best of states right now anyway, attempt at change or not.
What Nightsbridge said.
No joke. Billie hurt her terribly in the past, and Alice — wisely — walked away. She has absolutely no responsibility to let herself be drawn back into a relationship with someone who so blithely did her such harm.
Really? Cause Sexually Trasmmited Hurricane will be mine.
Leaving Sexually Transmitted Drama Hurricane for me.
I got Drama Hurricane Sexual Transmission!
Drama-Transmitted Sexual Hurricane for me! 😀
Anybody want Poisonous Sexually Transmitted Drama Hurricane?
More of a band name, I’d think
Sounds like something you’d put five points in on your Borderlands character.
“The Sexually Transmitted Drama Hurricane does _________, but hopefully you just saw the skill name and were like DUDE I WANT THAT.”
Beat you to it nerd
It’s gonna be a long ass three to four years for all the characters so I would be surprised if Alice is a one and done. Especially after that drama bomb she just dropped.
I hope so. I’d prefer not to have any more new recurring characters, especially ones that just cause the audience to feel anger and resentment instead of amusement or happiness, at least until a few older ones get written out.
I like telling people that they’re poison and advising all their friends to abandon them, too!
Because that’s a totally decent thing to do.
Ok, sure, but why do I get the feeling what Alice said is– well, was, when Alice knew Billie– true?
Being true doesn’t make it something that should be said, not like this, not now. If she had to call Billie poison it should have been when she decided she couldn’t be around Billie anymore. Not after sneaking away and hiding for months, letting Billie keep thinking they still were on good terms. And she never should have told Walky and Joyce to abandon Billie as well.
To be fair, she did try really hard to politely indicate that she really didn’t want to stay in Billie’s social circle anymore.
She just failed miserably. But it’s not like the conversation went, “Alice! Hi! Long time no–”
“Poison! You’re poison! Stay away from me!”
Yeah, but… it kinda did.
“Hi Alice! Go Dragons!”
“Poison! POISON! DRAMA HURRICANE!
“Hi Alice. Go Dragons!” = “Wasn’t High School GREAT! Let’s go get smashed and wreck a car, maybe kill someone this time!”How do we know Alice didn’t talk to Billie about that? We just heard Alice say that Billie was in denial about it which was both sad and scary for Alice. We do know Billie showed up at IU wanting and expecting to be Cool Queen Bee. And why didn’t Billie get in touch with Alice over the summer? Why was it all on Alice? Alice is starting to cry as she leaves. I don’t see grounds for blaming Alice for doing what she had to to escape Billie’ s undertow OR to think that now Billie is ready for Alice to save her.
But do you do it while Poison by Alice Cooper is playing in the background?
I call my friend Poison…
…but that’s only because that’s his favorite Ultra Street Fighter 4 character!
Anytime he tries to choses another character, I’m like “No, You’re Poison!”
Eh, she tried being nice, it wasn’t cutting it in heavy traffic, sometimes you just gotta let someone have it. Remember this is clearly painful for Alice too, she quite clearly had very intense feelings for Billie, and had to go cold turkey, so Billie showing up opened some old wounds of hers too.
Alice was willing at first to excuse herself politely. But after Billie’s final comment in the previous comic, if she left without explanation, Billie would believe it was because of Walky and Joyce’s presence and feel like SHE had the moral high ground while Alice was being an asshole. I think THAT was what forced Alice to call Billie out on the real reason for her departure.
Drama Hurricane could be Dumbing of Age’s alternate title.
The punless alternate title?
Hurricane Kadrama?
that…was a tad bit tasteless toward the victims of that particular hurricane you based the name off of
The best way to heal old wounds is to laugh about them. Besides, it’s been like 9 or 10 years since Katrina.
No can do, if it still gets a piece of you every day. No matter how long ago it was. Hence the classic shrink opening… ‘tell me about your parents/childhood’ – as the imprint is there, and too often forcing its way in years later, then withdrawing, (rinse repeat) – because for the antagonist, ANY response even if negative, is better than no response.
10, and they just paid the insurance claims for the last 10,000 victims, or denied for the last time, in July. Most of them were denied, a few were finally paid off.
Tastelessness in the comments? Oh, no!
The important thing about a Drama Hurricane is that it will blow over eventually.
But not before causing untold destruction
If by “blow over” you mean “become an impossible weather phenomenon that always turns around and strikes again as soon as everyone whose still alive pokes their head out to see if it’s gone”….. Cuz I think that’s more likely for this comic….
Not inaccurate. Hurricanes do that.
Drama Tag Hurricane
Drama Hurricane would also make a fine secret identity for a super villain. So Amazi-Girl won’t run out of work. 😀
By the way: What happened to her dong sketches investigation?
This is theoretically going on between Am(azi-)bushes
It’s ongoing, but there are other people and storylines still ongoing at the college, so we have had a change of focus for the moment.
Ya learn something new everyday.
Well duh, it IS a comic set in a university.
I did not see this coming.
What the fuck?
The BEST Kiva. Good job.
Hey! I see you realizing how fucked up you were and trying to change for the better.
FUCK YOU!
-Lumino
Alice! Something new from someone who appeared in like 2 Roomies strips?
Sexually transmitted…
Hm…
What’s he referring to?
Ditto. I’m confused.
They had a thing. They messed around, and probably some emotions got involved.
Billie and Alice might’ve, possibly, just maybe, done the horizontal hokey pokey.
For a nickel…?
Horizontal hokey pokey is like the best thing I’ve read today.
Eh, the Horizontal is overrated. Vertical hokey pokey is the way to go.
Are you suggesting that Billie put her left foot in and then her left foot out?
and turned it all about
And that’s what it’s all about! ^_^
https://b5thoughts.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/londo-happy.png
More like she put her right hand in, she took her right hand out, she put her right hand in, and she shook it all about…
Well, at least her left hand…
Well, High School is usually the time for self-exploration and “experimentation”. . .
I thought that was college.
Kids grow up so fast these days.
I thought that was college.
Or is college the one with sleepless nights and loads of Ramen?
The sleepless nights because you messed around with someone who you’ll be seeing throughout the year no matter how awkward it is.
Chef: “Children! What have I told you about drugs?”
Kids: “That there’s a time and a place for everything, and its called college.”
He’s refering to sex between Billie and Alice.
Are we going to get a lesbian cheerleader flashback Slipshine for Christmas?
They’d be underage so DEFINITELY NOT.
I’m pretty sure they turned 18 right before Senior Year started, if I’m not mistaken! 😀
Not in the US, no.
I was 17 when I started college. I remember being disappointed that my 18th birthday would be mere days AFTER the day to vote in the presidential elections (you have to be 18+ to vote).
But then my state picked the guy I would’ve voted for anyway, so it didn’t matter.
Point is, there are totally people below 18 in American colleges.
I was sixteen, and similarly annoyed that I would miss by days the chance to vote.
Wouldn’t have mattered, though; Reagan won by a landslide, and my vote wouldn’t exactly have stopped him.
You guys, there are LOCAL elections, too! Don’t discount those just because (you think) the prez is decided!
Uh, Jen, they couldn’t vote because they weren’t old enough, not because they didn’t care about the results.
They are phrasing it as though, “Well, didn’t matter anyway because So-and-so became president regardless” but THERE ARE ELECTIONS OTHER THAN PRESIDENT
is what I’m saying, not the “rock the vote even though you can’t”
I don’t know about the mid-West but in California you have to be 5 before the 1st of September to start school or you start the next year. My son is Dec and my God Daughter is February so they’ll both be 18 4 to 5 months before they graduate so it’s feasible that Billie and Alice could both be adults by there second semester of High School. Interesting things can happen after the end of the school year pep rally.
i am not interested in drawing a high school porn regardless
*slips you a dollar* thank you
Yeah, that’s about what I expected. And yeah, she’s a bongo. Not for wanting to get away from Billie but the way she says everything here. When someone is self-destructive you try to help them, even if you can’t do it yourself, you don’t call them poison and try to get other people to abandon them as well.
Why is everyone acting like Alice has some obligation to not be angry at the girl who slept with her and then apparently treated her like shit, who Alice claims not to feel safe around? Jesus, she’s crying in panel 4, cut her some slack.
Where are you getting the idea she slept with her?
And she has a right to be angry, she has a right to cut Billie out of her life. However she made no effort to help Billie get out of her self destructive, she saw Billie was self-destructive to the point of her life being in danger even to those around her and instead of trying to help or even calling her parents or anything she just cut Billie off and left her to self destruct.
It’s pretty obvious she slept with her from Walky’s comment…
True. But why does Walky know that? I don’t get the impression that he was exactly the center of the cheerleaders’ click in high school.
Billie may have used it as an insult directed at him.
“Haw haw, I can sleep with cheerleaders because I’m popular and you can’t because you’re a dork”
Alice saying she thought she loved Billie. And Walky’s comment about sexually-transmitted drama in the last panel. More importantly, the alt-text is a direct quote from Billie from that past strip where she implied she had experimented with girls before. When she told Joyce “everyone tries it eventually”.
And put it in that light, I think Alice does have the right to avoid a self-destructive ex who clearly still has a lot of power over her emotions.
How do you know that? Alice says that Billie blew off the seriousness of a drunken car wreck. Isn’t that consistent with Alice trying to talk to her and Billie blowing her off? Billie didn’t change after the wreck and frightened Alice.
They forgot that Alice most likely has no idea what Billie has been experiencing during the whole DoA comic and going by what she said, she isn’t likely to care anymore even if she did find out.
I think if I were Alice, I’d have a hard time believing it. Forget “second chance”– Alice has probably already given Billie way more chances than that.
I forgot nothing, I’m judging her based on her total abandonment of someone she claimed to care about despite realising said person was self destructing to the point her life was in danger.
Sometimes, the hope is that, by watching the people they love walk away from them, the self-destructive friend will wake the fuck up and get the help they need.
It may not be the best strategy, but sometimes when somebody is far enough down the rabbit hole, it’s the only thing you can do to keep yourself from being pulled in with them.
(I’m sympathizing with Alice so much right now.)
Yes, but that hope isn’t there because she didn’t tell Billie she’d lost a friend, she just quietly disappeared and hoped that was the end of it. I’m all for the ‘you fucked up, I can’t take it anymore so I’m leaving’ wake up call, and even sticking with it if they do change. But that’s not what Alice did.
Unfortunately Billie only just now found out that walking away was what Alice was doing.
Wally and friend are the help she needs, and she just told them not to bother.
Alice is not in her best state of mind right now.
It was great when it all began.
She was a regular Billie fan.
But it was over when shit hit the fan.
She want to hurt her just to hear her screaming her name.
Don’t want to touch her but she’s under her skin, deep in.
She wants to kiss her but her lips taste of alcohol poison.
There’s poison running through her veins.
(Well, not anymore, but Alice can”t know that.)
and then just watch… now that it’s no longer fun, SOMEONE is going to lose an eye!!
I don’t think Billie is actually going sober at this point… although it’s true that she probably hasn’t had a drink in long enough that her blood is currently alcohol-free.
They have to be willing to help themselves first. Nobody, least of all a highschool student, can cure another of their self-destructive tendencies against their will.
Even then, self-care comes first.
Yes, but they CAN still talk to their parents, or a friend’s parents, or a counsellor about getting her help and you can tell them ‘Hey, your behaviour is dangerous, I can’t handle this any more, you need to sort yourself out because you are harming me too’. Ignoring people never gets a message across – it doesn’t tell them why you are ignoring them or if you are actually upset or why you are upset if they do think you are.
Self-care is important, but it doesn’t mean you get away with ignoring someone suddenly then EXPLODING at them when they actually are finally learning – that is just being a jerk. :/
Meh. Seems like a weird game to play. “You must take steps 1-3 before you’re allowed to cut yourself off from the situation or start lashing out in anger”. Don’t think this sort of thing can really be boiled down into rules as precise as that.
That aside, pretty sure after Billie got the DUI all the relevant parties knew about her problem anyway. Alice specifically points out that Billie thought everything was fine even at that point. Was Alice supposed to start crowd-funding some sort of “Fix Billie” militia on kickstarter?
… What if they don’t leave? If. The only way to stop someone as self destructive as Billie was, as painful as going through that, and more than likely the intense drama that surrounded them, was to hurt her, in order to preserve her own state of mind.
What would be right?
You can’t help her until she wants help. An easy thing to say, but much harder to understand.
She obviously didn’t give any of her actions much weight, especially given how she acted towards the beginning of the comic.
Maybe some.
But not enough to change her actions.
And here.
She gives just the barest hint of a realization.
Alice isn’t being nice.
But, if I’m reading this right, she is trying to protect herself.
From what she perceives Billie to be.
If calling her poison, is the only way to get her to understand that she no longer wants to be her friend, especially after she broke contact all summer, then I understand.
I don’t believe it was the best way to go about it.
But, I can understand.
I find it particularly funny how lengthy Alice gets psychologically analyzed – while she’s a character Mr. Willis invented.
Are you really trying to analyze David Willis’ wicked mind? 😉
Need a bigger forum
I think the only thing I’ll add is that, based on what Alice says, this isn’t her just up and leaving Billie; she tried before, but Billie didn’t go along with it. We have no idea how hard/long Alice tried to help Billie, but it was enough for her to feel like it was a lost cause. And, except for her ‘epiphany’ (which really is an epiphany, Billie’s being going on about how uncool and beneath her Joyce and Walky are for weeks now), there’s almost no sign Billie’s changed during this meeting with Alice. She greeted Alice with ‘Go Dragons!’, is still wearing her high school colors, and pretty much ignored Alice’s hints that she didn’t really want to start a conversation (not to mention, ignored whoever Alice was sitting with).
So, we know Billie is trying to change, but Alice doesn’t, and Alice has been down this road before and doesn’t want to start again for her own safety.
no I’m sorry you’re so wrong here. I had a “friend” similaar to Billie – self destructive and harmful. Of all our friends, I tried the hardest to get her to not go down the path of drunkenness and self harm and running back to abusive boyfriends.
Some people YOU cannot help. For fuck’s sake, some people need PHDs before they can help other people!!! I tried my damn hardest to help my friend and it did jack nothing. She had to get herself better all by herself. Thankfully, she has, but sadly on the way she burned every bridge she ever built. I’m glad she’s no longer doing drugs and working full time. But I don’t want her in my life anymore.
Alice here aid he thought he loved Billie – but then realized how destructive Billie was to herself when she crashed a car! Alice had no ability to right or was forced to help Billie, ESPECIALLY as she has no proof, no set proof that Billie has changed.
“oh yeah alice, i’ll show you, i’ll go back to ruth, the drama hypercane!”
I myself am a Drama Cane Toad. I was brought here to do a task, failed miserably, and am now found investing everything in Australia.
I’m a Drama Colorado River Toad; I’m nocturnal, I’m not allowed to leave New Mexico, and if you lick me you hallucinate.
I just hope for your sake that nobody sews your mouth shut and inflates you til you explode then.
is that a thing people do to animals?! like for reals? D:
Apparently it is what some people did to canetoads(they’re considered a pest here in Oz).
Between the ‘drama hypercane’ and ‘Drama Cane Toad’, now I’m imagining a ‘Hypno Drama Toad’ similar to the Hypno Toad on Futurama, but it induces drama in whoever looks at it.
Ruth is a Drama Sharknado.
I think I rather deal with this kind of hurricane instead:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1xYc7jmz84
Thank you. Now you have this song stuck in my head- and that’s never bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIQ8p_mQMJ0 Remember Billie- say yes.
AHHHH, good times.
Meeeemmmorrieeesss….
Well that came out of nowhere
Called it
oh walky… you are doing the exact opposite of helping…
Mr. Boomwolf, meet David Walkerton. David Walkerton, meet Mr. Boomwolf.
Could its a good thing they didn’t bring Mike…second thought maybe they should have.
Mike probably would have pointed out how shitty it is to leave a friend to self-destruct instead of trying to help them in any way.
Or offer them a nickel to replay their high school “experimenting”…
At least Alice’s feeling bad about what she’s saying, but I’m still leaning toward the “bongo” end of the opinion spectrum. Billie needs to hear what’s being said, but this seems to be too harshly delivered after learning that Billie’s getting some self awareness.
Can we just have Billie hit bottom and recover?
Sometimes breaking away from someone goes to this level of anger. Heck, I’m even a bit envious at Alice for having been given a chance to explode like this and doing so.
I can relate to that with multiple circumstances in mind.
:-O
Oh man that hurt my heart.
Aww!!!! I fucking knew it I fucking knew it!!! (I went through a sexuality arc a little bit like Billie’s. I messed around with other girls all the time in highschool but I was ‘straight’. Came out like the end of my first year college/beginning of my second.)
I love having Mary’s avatar.
I’m not sure that’s what the comic meant. Yeah, Billie’s bi but I don’t think that’s what her relationship with Alice was.
Check the alt-text. It’s a past quote from Billie about having “experimented”. Fit-to-freak is right.
alt-texts are often jokes. And Billie hasn’t really been acting like someone with any actual experience with homosexual attraction. It’s all seemed like sucha surprise for her so far. Even Walky’s comment could have different meanings. Maybe he’s saying they slept together, maybe he’s just assuming they slept together, maybe Billie previously slept with a guy who was also a drama hurricane. Maybe it’s just a way to imply that she picked up being a drama hurricane from him because they slept together, platonically, the previous night.
*gnnngh*
I accept that I could be wrong, I just didn’t want to make an assumption there. Perhaps I’ve misread Billie entirely. I’m not good at reading real people let alone fictional ones.
I’m am pretty sure fictional people are a billion times easier to read than real people. At least in my experience they are.
This is DoA. When in doubt, assume lesbians.
Even when it’s guys involved.
Willis pretty much confirmed it, as he likes to do. Speculate no longer, good citizen.
But perhaps *gnnngh* was just a joke. ;-|
What does someone with “experience with homosexual attraction” act like exactly?
Also (AS QUOTED):
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/inevitable/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/03-answers-in-hennessy/curiosity/
She’s bisexual. It’s not complicated. It’s actually the least complicated one possible, short of asexual.
Dina, it is rude to post under other peoples names! You should know better then that.
“I thought I loved you” is pretty straightforward more-than-friends talk. Not that close friendships aren’t loving (I tell friends that I love them all the time), but had their relationship been platonic Alice probably would have said something more along the lines of “I thought we were friends” or “I thought you were my best friend.”
Or maybe she loved her and Billie didn’t know about it? It’s pretty easy to have someone have strong feelings for you and for them not to tell you. It’s not something that only straight guys do.
The facial expression would be pretty much the same in that case.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaand , she’s back to being depressed.
Dammit, she needs a hug…STAT!
Aaaaaaaaaaaaand her depression never went away, she was just better at masking it for a while via distractions.
Hell of a time for a quip, Walkerton.
There’s a time and a place, you know?
And he capitalized when it counted. Thanks, Walky.
He just can’t quip, erImean quit.
Sexually Trasmmited Hurricane, is that what they call epic blow-jobs now? 😀
With a VERY high risk of flooding.
Even better! 😀
STORM SURGE!
that sounds like an awesome superhero name, actually, ignoring the jokes.
Damn….
…bit weird that Billie would tell Walky about her sex life but okay.
(I mean it’s also possible Walky’s just way more perceptive than he’s given credit for.)
((Also you just know Joyce was focusing on all the wrong parts of this conversation))
Maybe their bff sexual experimentation led to interpersonal interactions like eyefucking where you wouldn’t need a clue bat to figure out they’re getting it on. Besides, walky is not actually a complete idiot, and does understand social nuances sometimes.
Well I mean the implication from yesterday was that Walky is generally made to disappear when Billie and Alice were in proximity to one another, giving him a lot less chances to figure it out.
Alternatively, given his teasing Joyce for her somewhat obsessive behavior towards Dorothy, it could be a “broken clock right twice a day” situation.
Yeah but I thought Walky’s ability to understand social nuances was something that he was developing now, not something he had in high school.
There is this thing in high school called ‘gossip’.
So, yeah. Alice is a bongo.
Okay, after looking back at the last couple of comics, I hadn’t realized that Alice was eating with someone, and I had just assumed that Alice had been trying to get rid of Walky and Joyce. (You can only see the person Alice is with in the first comic she shows up in, I believe.) So, it jumped from ‘Eh… Nerds…’ to ‘Self Destructive Billie? I’m out of here.’
She’s still a bongo, just less so.
Alice was trying to get rid of Billie, but Billie wasn’t taking the rather broad hints.
Because Billie thought she was still talking to her best friend.
So even though Alice sees first hand that Billie has literally had a revelation, she still chooses to just walk away wih those words?
Protecting yourself is one thing, but if someone you think you LOVE is standing right there and saying the old her is not who she wants to be you’re STILL going to just drop that bombshell and walk Away??
Does Alice know that this is “The New Billy?” For all Alice knows Billy’s saying some lines to get Alice back in Billy’s orbit.
For all we know, Billy may have done this before. Which makes Alice’s vitriol understandable.
People who claim to have changed are often lying or simply incorrect.
Billie literally just got busted for lying about this shit two days ago. Let’s not judge Alice too harshly for failing to fall to her knees in recognition of this stunning turnaround.
Not someone she loves. Someone she thought she loved. Past tense. That D makes a pretty big difference.
The D always does
Woah… ex girlfriend.
Woah… I agree with Alice.
JFC talk about passive aggressive BS.
Okay guys, here’s a fun project for the night, let’s compare the different approaches Sarah and Alice had for dealing with a self-destructive friend who was putting their own life in danger.
I think you’re expecting too much from someone who is still after all a teenager. Sarah is unusually mature for her age, plus she was stuck with Dana as a roommate so she had to take action. Plus, cutting someone off politely is better than enabling them.
Plus, if she was best friends with Billie, she probably wasn’t too mature to begin with. Judging by Walky’s reaction, shunning people is probably how she deals with people she doesn’t want to talk to.
In my defense I hadn’t realised anything romantic had happened when I made that comment. That does change the situation significantly.
Why did Walky call her a sexually transmitted hurricane?
Every time I think I know where you are going with this Willis, you find a new way for my heat to bleed in feels.
Bad timing walky
…did they sleep together?
There wasn’t much sleeping going on.
Well, unless you count passing out in a drunken stupor.
Waaaaiiiittttt whattttt? I want backstory!
Be the perfect time for it so why not.
No. Now we’re supposed to stew in our own juices for a little while. Then, the reveal will be so much better.
The next strip will be whatever Danny is up to instead of elaborating on this.
Or Mike. Eating a Chik-Fil-A birger.
On the other side of town.
Dammit Walkerton, there is a time and there is a place.
…pretty funny, though.
So… Billie’s now out TWO lovers. :<
Three, if you count her undersexed newspaper boss.
4, if you count Danny rejecting her.
Poor Alice getting beaten up in the comments. Tried her hardest to kindly and politely avoid her ex-girlfriend (a self-admitted former mean girl), who things clearly ended horribly with, and then when she can’t handle it and blows up y’all call her a passive-aggressive bongo.
I think it’s because we’re all privvy to Billie as a not-so-bad person, so we feel for Billie. We don’t really feel for Alice because we’ve had so little time with her.
Yeah, true. I guess as someone with a self-destructive and horribly unhealthy ex who certainly held emotional power over me and expected me to be there with them through every step of their road to mental health, and hated me when I told them they needed to find someone who wasn’t their ex-girlfriend to do that…. yeah, I’m inclined to give Alice the benefit of the doubt.
For the record, it is absolutely, 100% not your responsibility to help your ex–for any reason. I know you already know that. I just wanted to tell you I think you’re right.
I’m completely with Alice here. I have no clue how someone would come to a different point of view – but people are different …
Ok, I guess I have a clue now (sometimes I’m a bit slow…):
Those who were in a similar situation like Alice here can connect and understand her behaviour. Those who weren’t, can’t.
If this assumption is true, then it’s a bit ignorant of those who don’t know Alice’s situation to not even TRY to get to her point of view.
“Don’t bother me with reasons, she’s a bongo. Period.” #-)
You know how you successfully avoid someone? Tell them straightforward you don’t want to be around them anymore when they finally go too far. Don’t just quietly cut ties and then be surprised when they still think you have a relationship. Could have saved us this whole scene, them both this awkward moment and maybe done Billie some good months ago.
If you can do so, good. It IS the ideal.
Problem was, Alice most likely did NOT have that strength of character and had to break away, so she did what was necessary even if it was messy. Even now she has just enough to stand up and tell Billie off, and JUST THAT – yes, she does run in the end, and yes for her own protection again.
I imagine if they simply had not met again after the accident, it was simpler just to let the friendship “fade” rather than going out of her way to spell it out. Usually, this is better BECAUSE if you happen to have a change of heart, the other person doesn’t need to know about the being cut off.
But then they met again, and oops, drama spill at table two.
1. Some people just are not confrontational sorts of people. That’s often a basic personality trait that people have very little ability to change, especially not when they themselves are still just learning how to get along in the world.
2. Back in highschool, Billie was one of the popular folks. Which means that if someone pissed her off, she could easily have made life bad for them.
I agree, not only that but look at her face in the third panel, the distress and tears that are forming under her eyes. She is about to break down seeing and being forced to deal with her ex again so an emotional outburst is not uncalled for. It does not make her a bongo. Besides how does she know that this ‘epiphany’ is even going to actually change Billie or if she’ll ignore it.
As timemonkey says.
Alice could have staged an intervention of sorts, tried to help her friend. Said something. If nothing else, let her friend know that all bets were off and they should keep their distance. Instead, she just kind of let things hang, and then got angry and offended when Billie assumed they were still friends.
I’m not going to say that Billie is a good guy here, but I’m DEFINITELY not siding with Alice.
We don’t know what Alice tried before. The way she’s talking here makes it sound like this isn’t ‘I realized you need help and ran off at the first sign’. It sounds like ‘I tried before, and you ignored it, and trying to help may cost me more than just hurt feelings’.
Here’s the problem, Billie is just now finding out she’s an ex -months- after it happened. It sounds like she knew Billie would be here, that she might run into her. But instead of nipping the problem in the bud and making sure billie didn’t bother, she avoided the issue completely. This would not be an issue if someone, I’m not even saying it had to be alice, told her they weren’t friends anymore.
If Billie is only JUST finding out she’s an ex, then man, her jumping Danny and kissing Ruth would have made her a really bad girlfriend.
Pretty sure that relationship was over before summer.
I’m pretty sure Billie has always been there for everyone.
I realize that Willis keeps telling us that Billie’s not lesbian, but, damn, I can’t see how he can play it any other way now. She’s had at least two same-sex love affairs, and the business of throwing herself at someone of the opposite sex is totally characteristic of trying desperately to stay in the closet to yourself.
*ahem* She could either be bi-sexual, or pansexual.
She could be indeed. The reason I doubt that is the time she threw herself at Danny.
It’s not really a question of ‘could be’ or being open for doubt. It’s been confirmed multiple times over that character’s orientations have not been changed for DOA, and Walkyverse Billie… Well: http://www.itswalky.com/2013/09/23/its-bi-visibility-day/
Wait… you doubt her being bi or pan because she tried to sleep with Danny?
Attracted to all/multiple genders is the standard definition of bi- and pansexuality, last I checked.
Bi folks LOVE when you decide they must actually be either gay or straight depending on the gender of the last person they made eyes at.
It’s Schrodinger’s sexuality. The person aligns to a monosexuality the moment they make sexual contact with someone of the same or opposite sex OR they die of radiation poisoning when you open the box.
Especially irritating is that using Passive/Aggressive labeling in this context and 99% of the others has absolutely NOTHING to do with what it actually means – but nobody will bother consulting a DSM to learn something new and stop misusing terms that make them look like idiots to everyone not 25 years old or less.
Mostly because those crapping on Alice, don’t consider how she clearly she wanted to start over her life without a massively self destructive person present.
Seriously, Billie was a drunk driver who had no remorse until she reached college.
Why would Alice want to hang around that? Loving yourself is the FIRST rule.
*reads hovertext* Willis, is this another thing that is based on your life bi any chance?
BI any cha—
…I see what you did there
I wouldn’t be a proper PUNgeon master if I didn’t 😀
I guess I’m one of the few who actually has no problem with how Alice handled this. Yes, it’s nice that Billie has shown some improvement, but she can’t just pretend that her past fuck-ups didn’t happen. Alice has no obligation to hold in her own feelings for the benefit of someone who hurt her.
I’m with you, with a dollop of envy towards Alice to boot.
It’s not about how Billie has changed, or if she deserves another chance. It’s how Alice went about both abandoning her in her time of need and not even having the decency to tell her she was being abandoned.
I’m not exactly sure why Alice would have told Billie that the relationship was over, especially since Alice has indicated that Billie was unable to see that her own self-destructive behavior was even an issue. If Alice was fearing for her own safety, then I don’t blame her for skipping that conversation.
1. To make a point to Billie that it was her self destructive behaviour that was the problem and that this was a direct consequence of that
2. so Billie wouldn’t seek her out assuming they were still friends as has happened in the current storyline.
Just slinking off does nothing but create later problems.
And sometimes you just got to save yourself, and deal with the stuff later. Life isn’t as neat as we wish it to be.
Remember: Alice isn’t reading the comic, she’s being thrust into it at what turns out to be an ugly time for her. It’s not her job to be kind to a friend whom she had to hide away from in order to save herself.
She doesn’t have to be nice now. That’s not what I’ve been saying. I am saying she went too far right now. I know she didn’t plan it and she’ll probably regret it but she went too far.
I dunno, I’ve known people who do not learn from carefully worded “look, you’re not on the right track” speeches (especially e-mail), and Alice’s remarks may have been the best way to get through to her the severity of the infractions.
Does Alice know this is Billie’s time of need? No.
Alice just sees a face from the past that she had desperately wished to never see again, and just wants to get the hell out. Not everyone has the ability to tell someone to get lost when they decide to do so.
Now is not Billie’s time of need.
Just my opinion, but I don’t care that this caused problems for Billie. Her past, her mistakes. If anything it may have helped Alice to get those emotions out in the open. So, good for Alice.
I can respect that you have a different perspective.
Okay, I am not defending Billie. Billie has fucked up. She made her bed and is now laying in it. Alice had every right to sever ties with her and I don’t really care how sad Billie is about it. I;m saying she should have got those emotions out months ago. Leave a message on her phone if she can’t bare to face her directly, but she should have told Billie she was ending things.
Should have, yes. But sometimes, especially if the other person is prone to bursts of anger, and they’re someone you care about, you end up trying to just ignore things and hope it goes away, because you don’t want to deal with the confrontation that will happen. You know it’s wrong, but you do it anyways, then once a certain time passes, you feel so guilty about not telling them straight up that you keep avoiding it, and it piles on itself, and sometimes ends up like this. Alice probably knows she said that all wrong, but in the heat of emotions pent up for months, people say what they feel, but definitely not how it ‘should’ be said.
But then we wouldn’t have gotten this comic if it had been handled already!
I wouldn’t make a moral jusgment on Alice, but I wouuld hope she looks back on this years later and thinks,”I could have handled that better.”
This is a learning moment.
She did have some responsibilitiesto her friend.
So if Billie thought they were such great friends why didn’t SHE contact Alice over the summer? It was on Alice to continue to hang onto Billie as she continued to deny her drinking was a problem and wouldn’t listen to anyone? Yeah, GO DRAGONS! Anyone want to bet she didn’t put Alice through the same roller coaster ride for months or years that she did to Ruth recently … and Walky who she trained to disappear when cool kids were around.
Alice owed her nothing. Billie fucked up badly, and after years of being in an abusive relationship, Alice wanted part of it no longer. Fight or flight. She chose to run. Nothing wrong with that.
I agree with you too
Well, she is crying. every men knew that a crying woman is always right.
What is it about a woman in tears that terrifies men so? I swear yall act like deer in the headlights when confronted with one….
You can’t tell a woman to take it like a man.
To be fair, taking it “like a man” is kinda bullshit anyway.
Oh man up you pussy.
Pfff, a pussy can take a beating. Balls can’t. So you should pussy up.
Didn’t I once read on Cracked that science has shown that the smell of women’s tears attack men right in the cajones (as in, literally)?
Um, yes, I consider a list-based comedy site a factual source. Sorry.
Also Cracked once claimed that men tend to see situations as something solvable – meaning that they can be solved – meaning that their causes are accessible to the man to manipulate – meaning that they could have done something – meaning that they should have done something – meaning that if they see a woman crying it’s their fault she’s doing so (if it’s even theoretically possible). Which makes them defensive, especially when the woman ‘refuses’ to tell the man what he did. And so yelling and breakups and the hiring of assassins and the usual. Yes it makes us seem narcissistic…which doesn’t make it sound any less plausible to me.
Well, now I’m half-expecting Ruth and Alice to become a couple (or just have a fling that Billie walks in on :P)
Is that the sound of shipwrighting I hear?
If that happened, it would likely break Billie. How? Most likely “Blank expression, going through the motions of life, leading to a cold and lonely death from OD’ing on sleeping pills” break. Seriously, that actually happened to a guy I knew in highschool offed himself after two of his exes flat-out ignored him most of the time, and when they did speak to him it was with contempt. After he found out they were dating, he took his own life. The entire school, myself included, flat-out hated the two girls who broke him mentally Difference with him was he actually did absolutely nothing wrong
I don’t really think Alice is being that much of a bongo here. She’s being harsh, yes, but she has no idea about anything Billie has gone through at the moment, and all she sees at this time is Billie wearing her old school jacket, acting like it’s old high school times, and automatically assumes that Alice doesn’t want to be there because of Billie’s dorky friends. Billie’s FRIENDS. Not BILLIE. Billie was trying to show how much she’s grown by trying to defend Joyce and Walky, yet couldn’t even conceive Alice may have been uncomfortable because of HER. And if that’s true, chances are Billie may have been blind to how Alice felt a LOT back in high school, and Alice, at this point, decided she was tired of Billie ignoring her feelings.
My guess is Alice probably put up with a lot from Billie during high school, and she probably felt the best thing she could do after they graduated was to cut contact with her and focus on her own well being. And besides, is this the first time we’ve ever heard of Alice? Did Billie ever try contacting anyone from her high school?
Alice looks like someone who, unfortunately, had her own issues with Billie, and those issues just happened to come up at the worst possible time for everyone.
At least, that’s how it looks to me. I could be wrong.
She has already received the Judgement of Sucks for not remembering Walky’s name because he is the awesomest. Additionally she doesn’t actually care enough to warn others away from a problem, she just wants to twist the knife in Billie.
I doubt she’s as harsh as you’re making her out to be. Sounds like she’s been put through hell and doesn’t want anyone else to go through what she did.
Even Billie’s “interesting” friend Wally expected that A&B would want their privacy.
Billie used to be head cheerleader until she was thrown off the team for getting caught driving while drunk. And that seems to be when her main squeeze abandoned her without notice.
Joyce’s expression at the end is priceless
Well, I didn’t see the ex-lover angle coming. Doesn’t seem like Billie did either. I’m not sure Walky is correct that they actually ever slept together, but if they did, I doubt it meant as much to Billie as it did to Alice. “We were just best friends… but we experimented a little of course. Doesn’t everybody?”
This could still turn out to be very good for Billie if she makes the obvious connection between Alice’s disappointment and Ruth’s disappointment and (this is the tricky part) makes sure that the things she did to upset them both are the parts of “old Billie” she buries. But she could just as easily say “wellp, just learned I was as worthless a drag on everyone in high school as I was in college, nice to have that last illusion shattered, where’s the booze.”
If there was ever a moment that called for the best Joyce has to offer, this is it.
From what we’ve seen of Billie’s decision making so far….. most likely the latter….
Maaaaaaybe Walky should go back to shrugging.
I definitely don’t think that Alice is obligated to Billie in any way, but I also think that telling Walky and Joyce to stop being friends with her was just a little too far. Like, how does Alice even know for sure that Billie hasn’t changed? And in what world is making sure they have no friends the proper way to deal with someone who already has no respect for their own life?
I mean, I understand cutting someone off for your own good. And I understand getting angry that Billie wouldn’t take the hint! What I don’t understand is trying to sabotage (no matter how off-handed it was) that person’s personal life when it has nothing do with you anymore.
Part of being a good person is taking an interest in the wellbeing of others. Even total strangers!
If she was interested in the wellbeing of others she’d be worried about Billie instead of just writing her off. She basically saying ‘Billie’s not worth it, she’ll only hurt you as she hurts herself, just leave her to die on her own’.
Which was her intent.
Remember, she only knows the old Billie, the Billie she had to cut off all access to. Which means she knows “the Billie that poisons all she touches.”
So yeah, it makes perfect sense to do what she did.
It’s what makes her a bongo. Deciding to cut someone out of your own life is acceptable. Good sense even. Trying to stop other people from helping? That is unacceptable. She knows Billie is endangering her own life and not only does she not try to help, a person choice I can accept, but she’s actively interfering in Billie get help from other people. That’s horrible.
My sentiments exactly.
If you’ve seen someone try to wreck your life, are you going to let said person wreck another’s life? I say no, you do what you can, come hell or high water, to save everyone who comes in contact with that person. And as far as Alice knows, Walky and Joyce were Billie’s friends, not her handmaidens towards healing.
Friends are a persons handmaidens towards healing. Billie will not get better on her own, she needs help, she needs support, she needs to know she’s loved and has value. All isolation will do is fuel her depression and lead to her death.
Or, in the case of this deathless universe, probably a coma
Have you ever actually had a friend or family member with a highly self-destructive streak? Believe me, as someone who has, Billie’s ex-friend comes off as a highly sympathetic character.
Is Billie trying to be better? Well she says she is, but how is someone who has only ever been dragged down by her supposed to believe that for even a second? And seriously, what is the one the first things Billie says to her? GO DRAGONS! Because yeah, reveling in the spirit of school you don’t even go to anymore totally says she has moved on with her life.
Billie’s ex-friend is not a bongo. She is a perfectly reasonable human being exhibiting a totally legitimate emotional response to a highly rational realization. This sub-arc isn’t about “Billie’s bongoy Friend.” Its about “Billie is force fed some especially bitter crow.”
The more validation you give people in Billie’s position, the more likely they are to fall back to their old ways. They need to realize full and well how much they suck as a person so they can muster up the motivation to get better. That is half of what steps 8 thru 10 of the 12 Steps are about. No one owes them forgiveness and validation. THEY owe the other person an apology.
Don’t forget, too, though, that we still don’t know the details of what went down with them in the past in this universe. We know Billie got drunk and got in an accident, and we know that Alice thought Billie didn’t take that seriously enough, and we know that she hasn’t talked to Billie since high school.
But we don’t know what actually went down with them. Alice says Billie didn’t take it seriously enough, which sort of indicates to me that she might have tried to talk to Billie about it at the time, so this may not just be Alice suddenly blowing up at her from out of the blue or with no prior attempts to help Billie.
Don’t forget, too, that the odds that Billie was pretty drunk at any time Alice might have been wanting to talk to her or help her are probably pretty high as well, from what we’ve seen so far. And yes, Billie is trying to turn her life around, and to stop drinking and to be more responsible–and she’s been doing that for what, a week, in-comic? Two?
What I mean is that, yes, we know that Billie is going through a rough patch, but we don’t know what might have happened between them in the past in this universe; and Alice has no way to know that the Billie who, what, last week or so? was the same Billie as in high school, is now trying to make any kind of positive changes in her life.
Billie hasn’t been trying to turn her life around, and she definitely hasn’t tried to stop drinking. She’s mostly been passive and let things happen around her. It’s just now that she’s admitted to herself that she wants to change.
Chiming in that Ex got sick and passed out once, and friends did all the rational things to help–got Ex outside (better place to barf), kept watch, etc. while Useless Friend did nothing but panic the whole time… Ex only remembers Useless Friend “helping” and criticized everyone else for not helping.
So, still can’t feel like Alice has done anything wrong, sorry.
drunk-sick, specifically
Immediately after snubbing that someone by not bothering to say their name right, which you were reminded of approximately two seconds earlier.
Oh, man, I completely forgot to add that in. I mean, sure, Alice is hurt, but now it seems less like an unthinking throwaway sentence and more like a jab personally designed to hurt Billie.
After all, who else would know that Billie fears being unloved and alone more than anything else?
Alice doesn’t know if Billie has changed or not because she had to cut off all ties. Alice knows the old Billie.
And that explains why she would tell Walky and Joyce to run from Billie – give others the good advice you had to learn the hard way.
Soooo, Billie and Alice were bangin’?
Hot.
A car just drifted outside (I live very near a big intersection) is common but it was a quite fitting effect as I read todays comic.
Having been married to a self distructive alchoholic for too many years, I agree with what Alice did. She got away from her.
You can only spend so much time trying to ‘save’ someone who is not interested or perhaps ready, in saving themselves. You just can not do it for them. The more you help them, the more they take.
I tried for 15 years. That’s enough.
Billie has realized finally, what is going on. I really like her character. I want to see her grab her bootstraps and haul herself up.
Looks like she put Alice thru what she is putting, or tired to put, Ruth through. Ruth recognized it and backed off.
Telling Walky and Joyce to stay away was overkill and uncalled for. But, see the tears. She still cares. And she obviously hurts. So, when you hurt you strike back.
I’m sorry for Billie. She’s had a Hell of a week? month?. time. But she has a chance, Walky and Joyce no going anyway I think.
Climb out of the pity pool Billie, you can do it.
I’m with you, although I’d even support her telling Walky and Joyce to get out of Billie’s life.
Having had someone warn me about a certain woman who ended up turning on me (not much harm done, and I actually got a measure of revenge on her without doing much of anything, but still…), I understand FULLY Alice’s warnings to Walky and Joyce. If you can prevent someone doing harm, you do what you can – even if it seems a bit much.
I wouldn’t object if she’d merely given them a warning about the potential harmful consequences of hanging out with Billie. Instead she advised total abandonment. That’s going too far.
Not really. If abandonment is the only thing that worked, you’re going to advocate for abandonment in that case. If listening would have worked, there would have been no blowup and no need to advise total abandonment.
If Alice had actually told Billie her feelings months ago when she decided to act on them then Billie would have understood she wasn’t wanted.
That was High School Cheerleader Billie. Billie didn’t start growing until college where she was no longer alpha female and her only friend not from high school or childhood was Joyce. Chances are she might not have listened or cared.
I doubt anyone who says that really believes that advice will be taken. It just emphasizes that Alice (in this case) tried her best* and failed, so they shouldn’t hope that they will do any better. It’s like when doctors tell patients they will never walk again–they don’t want the patients to try only to fail and inadvertently believe it’s their own shortcomings for not being able to walk again.
*this part is up for debate, but basically SHE has not seen evidence that Billie could change
To people snubbing Alice for how she didn’t make a clean sever, let’s put it this way; Dorothy did pretty much the same thing; in fact, going by what little we know, she did even less since she probably interacted with Danny over summer, unlike Alice who tried to give Billie a message by not talking to her at all.
Dorothy’s situation was different. She was just going to break up with him and merely put it off too long, it was never stated they wouldn’t interact anymore, they had friends in common and lived really close to each other. The important thing is Dorothy DID end it, to his face, even if he still doesn’t really grasp why he at least knew it was over that night.
Except that Dorothy didn’t expect Danny to follow her to college. She worried that he was only going to IU because of her. Which he was.
Yes, Dorothy handled it better in that she eventually did break up with him, but if Danny didn’t go to IU as well chances are she might have been hoping they’d eventually just fall out of the relationship without saying so.
I don’t think Dorothy was set about breaking up with him though. Notice how she brought up his lack of goals rather than breaking up with him immediately? She wanted to be with someone that had their own goals past being with her, and had their own life outside of her, and BELIEVED in her.
Danny however gave her the final push to break up with him by saying ‘you might stay here’, indicating that she might give up her dreams for him.
She also knew he was following her to college. She wasn’t happy about it, but only because she knew he was just following her. She has no problem with Danny as a person, he’s just not someone she can have a relationship with. And she didn’t even decide to dump him until after they were already there. Had he reacted differently to their talk she may not have called it off, but he refused to acknowledge her goals and how important they were to her, instead choosing to be dismissive and passive aggressive about them.
Dorothy took too long to make the decision, Alice made the decision but didn’t bother to tell Billie about it.
Dorothy is like that ex-boyfriend from Legally Blonde.
But less of an ass.
How so?
Billie, maybe you should just take a break from lesbianism?
Autoeroticism it is!
yes I do mean cars, there’re some sexy sexy ponies out there =3
No, not ponies! D:
I just want to give alice AND billie hugs right now…I feel like they really need them…
Ruth can do that. First she can hug Alice, ’cause they got so much in common.
Then she can hug Billie, ’cause thats what Billie want
Then Billie can hug Ruth, ’cause thats what Ruth want.
Then someone can explain what the fuck is going on to Walky.
Wouldn’t that make Alice’s friend who she just had lunch with jealous?
Can’t she just hang out with Joyce?
This is officially the most dramatic college cafeteria ever.
Absense of Sarah confirms this.
Around this point is when the entire rest of the cafeteria stands up and starts applauding.
Dude at nearby table: “See, I TOLD you these were good seats!”
Which is really impressive, since it’s a Chick-Fil-A and not a college cafeteria.
Alice stopped talking to Billie last summer due to heartbreak. Becky stopped talking to Joyce very recently and we don’t yet know why.
…And that’s why I voted for Becky in the “who do you want to see more of” poll. There’s a story in there.
Wait, do we know Becky stopped talking to Joyce? I always thought it was just a “she’s not at IU, hence hardly ever in the comic” thing?
Yeah, I was wondering if I’d forgotten a comment from Joyce or something. Last I checked Becky was just a phonecall away.
Not anymore, no.
So because Joyce couldn’t get Becky on the phone right when she wanted her once she’s suddenly not speaking to her at all?
This is a work of fiction. If the one failed call were insignificant, it wouldn’t have been shown to the audience.
For another thing, pay attention to what Joyce is saying in that page and the one immediately following. Becky is Joyce’s Godly comfort zone in a severely discomforting environment. Since their last shown phone call, Joyce was targeted for sexual assault, discovered she likes a modern cartoon series more than her old singing bible show, stood up to her parents on a godless person’s behalf, and discovered she had lustful thoughts. These are things Joyce would absolutely call Becky about, as they would sound like she is straying from a Christian’s path. If a call had taken place already, Becky would likely have either reassured Joyce (causing her to be less afraid about everything) or condemned Joyce (which would be big enough to get panel-time).
If Joyce had got in contact with Becky then she would sought comfort from Becky instead of talking with Dorothy and overhearing Walky’s thoughts about her. It’s better for the plot for Becky to be unavailable but in character for Joyce to want to talk to Becky.
EXACTLY. Either Becky doesn’t want to talk to Joyce due to offscreen drama that will come to light when they finally speak again, or Becky CANNOT talk to Joyce for a while (for example maybe she lost her phone or something) and will be blown away by all the stuff that Joyce has experienced in the meanwhile when they eventually do speak again. It could lead to Becky passing judgment on her and severing ties, or it could lead to a heartwarming acceptance and reconciliation, or a bit of both. Either way, there’s a story to be told here, and that’s why I voted for Becky. (When I voted, she was third from the bottom. Now she’s at the very bottom, and I do like an underdog story.)
Or Becky was just busy at that specific time and it’s no big deal since Joyce hasn’t mentioned it since.
“… here in, Duckburg…”
Gonorrhea entertains, it’s a duck world
Might lose your best friends
who were lesbians
Here I am!
*Dunun-dunun-dun-dundun!*
Rock you like a Drama Hurricane!
I really like Joyce expression on last 2 panels.
She is so confused and doesn’t know what to do or say at all.
I WAS NOT EXPECTING THIS. But what a brilliant turn. Though I’m feeling for Alice and I was definately not expecting to feel sorry for her yesterday.
Buuuuuuuurn.
Burning can also be sexually transmitted.
How the hell can people seriously judge Alice and call her a bongo when we’ve been sitting here this whole time watching Billie be a self-destructive drama hurricane and hurt those she loves? Alice is right about Billie. She is literally, objectively right! The fact that Billie has just had an epiphany about what a hot mess she is doesn’t mean Alice should just immediately forgive her and pretend her own feelings don’t exist. Yeah, Billie’s had a hard time, Alice doesn’t know that, nor is it her responsibility. Shaming someone for cutting an abusive person of their life is fucked up.
Being right doesn’t make what she said any less horrible. It’s not about defending Billie, it’s about Alice going too far.
Oh….harsh.
I bet that was really difficult for Alice….Especially since a lot of the weight Billie gained made her boobs super huge. That girl is stronger then people give her credit for.
Well you know what they say: when you need something done, get a cheerleader.
I know the pattern now. Whenever it appears that Billie’s state of being might improve in some way it basically means something traumatic and awful is about to happen in the strip immediately following.
But nobody gets hit by a truck. Never ever.
If people die they stop being able to suffer. You can optimize the amount of audience empathy with a story if you never let your characters die 😀
Look, we’re not allowed to mention any other Willis continuity. That’s just a rule, remember?
If I hear another joke about getting hit by a truck, I’m going to go through the Ruth.
Technically the joke was about NOT being hit by a truck.
All her suffering is self inflicted though, its all her mistakes coming back to roost
So she’s not hit by a truck, she’s hit by a boomerang.
And this boomerang doesn’t physically exist, it’s just a metaphysical entity that hits her mind, her soul, her inner self. No physical damage done (so far).
Ohh, so Alice is the Drama Tag personified. I get it.
No, Billie is the drama tag personified. She drama’d up Alice’s life earlier, and now that she’s come to college drama is swirling around her.
The drama tag PREVENTED drama. It was never the source of it.
Hmm, you have a point. So that means the drama tag is, um, Becky I guess?
I wonder how long Alice kept that poison comment Cooped up
She’s been coopin’.
She’s a cooper.
MIKE: And Chick-fil-A hates gay people.
ALICE: Nooooo!
Still awkward.
Well, this is it. There’s no way I can think of of how Billie’s life can get any crappier than it already is. You know, unless a pie were to fly in here face in the next strip.
Where is Carla right now?
or a flying dismembered pooping butt?
Well, it could just keep being Amber all the time. The poo had to start raining down on someone else eventually.
couldn’t, not could. Couldn’t. Blargh.
Ever heard the term ‘bottoming out’? Billie’s finally getting a dose of that — probably the best thing that can happen to her.
That assumes her response to hitting the bottom is to take the initiative to change things; she could also end up spiraling into clinical depression, which is on the opposite end of the spectrum to “best thing that can happen”.
Poor Billie 🙁
It’s just one if those days when everyone and everything is against you.
Looking back at the previous scripts, this gives such a new light to see them.
Called it. Willis does a real good ‘i’m uncomfortable with you here’ smile.
I’d feel bad for her, but her constant whining, obsession with high school, and refusal to actually deal with her problems make that about impossible
Critical hit. Heartbreaking.
This also puts a new spin on this comic:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-3/01-if-the-shoes-split/infinite/
Man, this must be super-awkward for the person Alice is having lunch with.
Ha! You know, I’m often in that person’s position with people in my life. 🙂
Sweet Danny avatar, dude. 🙂
Drama!.. Near the end, Joyce is carrying that tray with a drink on it with one hand!
Someone named Alice talking about Poison! Am I the only one that thought of this song after reading this strip? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OyCZZMu0So
Wouldn’t be surprised if that was intentional.
Man..i feel like a bad person for judging Alice in the prev strip.
Wow. I’m surprised at the vitriol Alice is receiving in the comments section. She stated that her situation was going on with Billie for *years*. That’s an awfully long time to be in (what appears to be) an abusive relationship. People are accusing Alice of suddenly abandoning Billie, but in a situation like this, it’s much more likely she tried multiple times to help Billie, maybe even tried to walk away a few times (maybe not, I don’t know) and that the DUI/wreck was the last straw. And suddenly Billie just shows up, acting very high school (“GO DRAGONS!” wearing the colors, acting like nothing happened, not thinking it was weird they hadn’t talked all summer), so Alice has no reason to believe Billie has grown or changed. And honestly, Billie’s growth has only been over a few weeks, that’s not enough time to actually make Billie safe enough for Alice to be around. (I’m saying this as someone who has had a lot of experience with an alcoholic who would be better for weeks, even months before relapsing)
Alice has suffered a lot of pain because of Billie and to expect her to be perfectly kind to the person who caused her that pain is a bit much to ask her. Put another way, if this was Amber and her dad, would people say Amber was unjustified if she blew up at him like this? Would people defend the dad and say he didn’t deserve it? Not that Billie is as bad as Amber’s dad, but to the people they hurt, there’s probably not much of a difference.
As much as I would like to see Alice more in this comic, sometimes relationships are broken past the point of mending. Alice owes Billie nothing. If she never chooses to give Billie another chance, that’s totally fair.
And maybe this will help Billie in the long run. Sometimes a harsh and shocking wake-up call to reality is what someone needs.
-high fives you-
I really do agree with you.
But I don’t think it’s entirely fair for her to just now be saying that she doesn’t want to be around her anymore.
That’s something she should have done at the end of the school year, at the very latest. As much as it sucks what Billie did to her, Billie at least should know that she had burned that bridge, instead of Alice allowing her to think that they were still friends.
It would have been a lot healthier for both of them, as Alice could feel as though she had finally cut the ties that were killing her, and Billie would have had the whole summer to evaluate her life and her choices.
If that were the case, then perhaps she would have stopped drinking and other self-destructive behaviors. (I’m not saying drinking is a self-destructive behavior, but in the hands of Billie, it is.)
She could have been of sound mind at the beginning of the semester and been careful with how she treats her friends and her own body.
She could have been sober when Joyce was being drugged.
She could have helped Ruth instead of breaking her trust.
If Alice had just been upfront with her about not wanting to be around her, then the potential for a lot of good things would have been opened. They wouldn’t necessarily have *had* to happen, but the possibility for Billie becoming a better person much sooner could have made a huge difference.
Things like this are life-changing, and I don’t think it happening in such a jarring manner are beneficial to either of them.
It could have been a clean break for Alice, instead of letting her heart get ripped out again.
It could have been sobering and not sickening for Billie.
I don’t blame Alice for reacting this way to Billie in the current set of events.
But I do blame her for not doing it sooner and in a way that actually would have benefited Billie, instead of just damaging her and making things far more confusing.
Alice tried to walk away nicely. Alice tried to politely defuse the situation. Billie insisted on continuing a conversation that Alice was clearly done with. Billie physically detained Alice. Billie insisted on the truth and now she can’t handle the truth. Yes, Billie damaged most people she meets and helps just about none of them. Some games can only be won by not playing them, such as Thermonuclear War and Drama Hurricane. Billie is getting what she earned here.
Alright – Alice’s feelings are totally justified – but when Billie JUST SAID that she’s tired of who she is AND Alice cared enough about Billie to shed tears….well, you’d think Alice would listen. Maybe be a tad less harsh. I mean, she should say no less about how she feels, but say it in a different matter. These are things she obviously has been holding in, but when someone outright says they don’t want to be the person that drove you away…maybe they at least deserve a conversation?
Years of painful, clearly emotionally debilitating and potentially destructive experience speak much louder than one aside comment. From Alice’s perspective, it was a horrid chapter she thought was closed and now here it is again.
Yes, Billie just said that she’s tired of who she was… and it’s highly likely she said something similar to Alice sometime before.
Plus Billie turned up acting like it was high school all over again. Alice has zero reason to expect that Billie has changed.
Damn right. And some of us still think about it and try it out because it was so awesome the 1st time!!
Alice is responding in an entirely acceptable way to a threat, and in an entirely unacceptable way to a person. Experience leads her to see Billie as a threat, and perhaps not as a person, so while her actions are ‘sort of justified’, they are not the actions that would achieve the best results in this situation.
It depends on what you define as best results and for whom. Alice clearly wants nothing more to do with Billie. This interaction may have accomplished that, so for Alice, it would be the best result.
Well, not really, as their encounter here demonstrated. Alice chose to avoid Billie instead of just telling her she didn’t want anything to do with her anymore. Since Billie was unaware of the situation there was the risk she would affectively seek or just accidentally meet with Alice, as it actually happened.
It would probably be better for both of them if Alice had been more honest.
Ye-ouch.
Billie’s getting served left and right.
But with her recent decision of self-improvement, maybe she’ll take this as more motivation. Or maybe she’ll crumble.
I think this is it.
I think is the strip where I finally start liking Billie.
YEEEEEAAAAAAAAASSSSS
Yeow, she already had the epiphany. That was a tidbit uncalled for, but I suppose I can see why Alice would need to get that off her chest after so long.
Oh, well done, Alice. Berate her into being a better person, that’s totally going to work. I’m sure that’s exactly what you needed back in high school – someone to let you know how worthless you are, so you can be properly motivated to get rid of the self-destructive habits you use to cope with feeling bad about yourself.
She’s not trying to berate Billie into being a better person, she clearly thinks that’s a lost cause and is trying to get away from a person she considers toxic.
I don’t understand the expectation that anybody who’s faced with a person with issues is responsible for addressing those issues and molding them into better people. Not everybody is going to be the wise magical mentor played by Morgan Freeman in the movie version.
You don’t have to fix them. You just have to *not* be a toxic person who makes those issues worse. But people will go to any lengths to justify their own bad behavior.
amazing. Billie becomes an alcoholic, crashes a car, still insists she’s fine. and yet somehow in your mind Alice is the person here who needs to do better. wow.
Everyone already knows Billie needs to do better. Billie being a massive fuck up doesn’t excuse Alice being unnecisarily cruel. This isn’t a side with one against the other thing.
lice made multiple excuses to try and back out or leave, and was clearly very uncomfortable and in the strip just before this one Billie GRABBED her by the arm and told her she was “shitty”. At that point id say Alice is justified with lashing out a little in return, nothing “unnecessary” about it. And all she really did was was a few mean true things. Also its not like she is saying them because she’s out to get Billie or wants to ruin her life. There are tears in her eyes. She once loved Billie. Alice is not coming from some evil blaine like place with this, she’s coming from a place of hurt. Sure might not have been the proper time or place, but i can hardly fault her for letting her emotions get away from her after she has again made multiple attempts to leave this situation
From a personal place on my point of view of this, I’ve had a long friendship that turned toxic, as my friend became shitty and made my life really stressful and messed up. We were never together like Billie and Alice were, but we were still friends for 10+ years. If i ran into him and he had an “epiphany” like billie’s supposed one last strip, i would probably have acted the same as Alice. After all the long, long pain and stress they put you through, and spit in your face at all your attempts to help or go back on their word, NOW they supposedly “get it”? please.
Also note the “you thought that was fine” in Alice’s speech here. The fact that she can say with complete certainty that Billie still thought she was “fine” even after her drunk accident implies that they talked about it, and that Billie continued to insist she didn’t have a problem. just like she did when Ruth caught her lying and manipulating her.
I dunno man, i guess you have a point that Alice went a bit too far, but i cant find anything in myself to blame her for it. The root of this is Billie’s fuckups. Alice got out for her safety and i applaud her for it.
jerkwad Alice!! have some compassion !
Billie you don’t need her, you keep working on yourself and make yourself your new real friends.
Good news: Catharsis for Alice! Yay!
Bad news: Crumbling shame at being shown the consequences of one’s poor choices for Billie! Awww!
Oh man, Billie’s gonna need some aloe for that burn. Sometimes the past is better left alone. I’ve seen my share of juice heads drink their lives away and ruin careers in the military and civilian life. Some people are just plain self destructive.
Quick, Joyce and Walky, start trying to kill each other to cheer her back up.
And remember, boys and girls, the title of the next chapter is “When Somebody Loved Me.” Billie’s managed to alienate both of the women who might have loved her…
Wow, she realizes Billy is having an epiphany, and then unloads on her anyway? Little much, I think. I know she has been carrying that around all summer, but saying that after what Billy just said is bad timing.
This is pretty much what I hoped for. Alice was uncomfortable meeting Billie not because Billie’s losing her cheerleader figure or has otherwise become uncool in Alice’s eyes, but because Alice saw her for what she was.
Still not coming off as a saint, but I wouldn’t want that either. Perfect people are boring.
if Billie needed any more motivation to try and change and be a better non destructive version alice just revealing the real reason she does not want to be her friend might have been the final key billie needs. drama hurricane.
who knew that such drama could happen at a Chick Fil A?
that’s why i’m a Five Guys Burgers and Fries person.
walky’s comment…
Go Alice! as much as this may hurt billie, every single word is true. I think she was very brave to cut billie off for her own saftey
ok wow, now im reading the comments and people are actually blaming alice of all people for this and calling her a bongo just. lol. wow. you guys have clearly never dealt with a toxic friend before
Hey look! A possible friend for Sarah. Unless Sarah disagrees with Alice’s handling of a self-destructive acquaintance, then she might tell Amazi-Girl about another suspect for the ding dong bandit list.
For my actual opinion,slightly annoyed with Alice for the TIMING of her explosion. It certainly works either way, but maybe more if the epiphany acknowledgement was placed somewhere after the explosion. I have kind of experienced both being and having a self destructive friend, so my viewpoint is a little hard to explain on this other than that this does and does not quite make sense.
Willis!
I’ve been reading daily, and even Billie’s most recent confrontation with Ruth didn’t hit me so hard as this strip. Surprised at myself, I’m wiping tears out of my eyes as I write this.
Billie’s trying, right? Just…throw her one little bone. Doesn’t need to be Ruth related. Just a lil’ something.
LESS SUFFERING WILLIS
I’ve read this strip several times and every new time, I still read “ruins everything she touches” as “ruins everything she smooches”. Maybe cause I’m always looking at Alice’s face so I’m reading in my sight periphery.