The education system. Sometimes getting good grades just means that person is good at remembering a bunch of trivia for just as long as they need to to pass the test.
True, but the thing is it’s not about how much you know, it’s about how often do you utilize what you know. Everyone knows how to cut up a person but only few knows how to do it correctly and do just that.
*nods* However, application is near impossible without the facts upon which to base it. To extend the surgery example, it doesn’t matter how deft a hand you are with a scalpel. If you don’t know human anatomy, you’re still going to be a piss-poor surgeon.
But you’ve also got to measure how hard she convinces herself shes trying against how much energy goes into this fist-waving drama involving blaming others, making this SO about her and her self-esteem, her less than loving parents, how said parents liked her brother best, and last but not least, how mind-blowing it is that her manchild-wannabe brother is having more sex than her just because it was brought up in passing.
What if all that energy WASN’T wasted on making excuses, blaming society and all that Dawson’s Creek shit? Probably would’ve thought twice before writing ‘Blah blah blah blah blah’ when taking notes for math aptitude evaluation in a University setting. Bet she was expecting an enraged Professor to do the “See me after class” number, huh?
Sal hasn’t been making excuses and she hasn’t been complaining about her oh-so-horrid home life. And her talk about her sex life was before Jason even got the books out.
Jason’s being provoked…not really the best time to judge him on dickishness. I really don’t blame him.
Honestly, I’m kind of sick of the attitude that “I tried hard, I should get a passing grade”. Did you learn the subject to a point of proficiency matching or exceeding the average? If the answer is no, then you should not get a passing grade.
I went to a community college before transferring to my current top-ranked school. I prefer the community college by a long-shot, because while I have made straight ‘A’s at both schools, I actually learned things and furthered my understanding at the community college. I still crack up when I get a class like Genetics, where I know more about basic biology after 1 course than any of the non-transfer students do after 2.
Yeeeah. Jason is like the worst TA ever here. He should be trying to set her up with whatever version of Academic Services or tutoring IU offers – at the very least, giving her the phone number for them. That is literally part of his job.
Well, maybe not everything. I am rather fond of the sushi place down the street from me.
Once you get outside of the major metropolitan areas, though… Yeah, pretty awful.
Seriously, he’s complaining cause she’s failing his class but trying to get help from the TA? From my experience, more than half the class in any freshman-level class is failing because they just don’t care and don’t even bother trying to get help for the class. ^=__=^ Worst. TA. EvAr. And I’ve had a TA that was convinced that all of his students were conspiring with Facebook and Twitter to let the Chinese and “Indians” (not sure if he meant Native Americans or people from India but either way, makes no sense~) to take over America and make Americans their slaves.
Moe isn’t all about the disgustingly cute. Hell one could argue the character in Plasma’s avatar has moments of moe in her spinoff series, havent seen much of the main show actually, kinda a shame…
I believe that’s the major difference between an individual’s personal idea of moe and so-called moe-anime, the latter slaps on loads of common moe elements in the hopes of attracting hardcore otaku, sometimes to the detriment of the series.
Never really could do math too well once we hit highschool. In primary school math made sense. In highschool they stopped explaining math. “This is the formula you use to solve this problem.”
“How does that formula work?”
“You don’t need to know that.”
I don’t know why they teach it that way. In any other subject the method would involve the introduction of progressively more complex principles so that by the time you introduced a particular formular we’re capable of understanding why it works the way it does.
For that matter, if we’re talking about useless skills then memorizing formulas is absolutely useless. It’s like memorizing recipes. If I’m in a situation where that’s all I need then I can just write that shit down and memory won’t be an issue. Don’t say “you won’t always have your notes” I do. When was the last time you found yourself locked away somewhere with a desperate need to make a pastry or perform an equation without access to your notes? It’s never happened.
Nobody needs a teacher to teach them recipes. They can read. There are books full of them out there. They need a teacher to teach them how to cook. They need a teacher to teach them how ingredients work. Why the heck are we putting eggs in this cake mix? They are not sweet. Well, student, eggs are a binding agent. They hold everything together. Fan-fucking-tastic. Now I know what to look for if I’m ever looking to bake a cake without any eggs for whatever reason. A binding agent. Let’s learn a little bit about binding agents and their common applications shall we? That sounds like a lecture. Much better than just simply giving me a list of ingredients and then walking off like your job is done.
I am sorry, you had a shitty math department it sounds like. I could argue, that if they were just doing that they were basically not teaching mathematics, and not respecting you more than a computer.
Math, (One of my degrees is in math, and one of my family members has a PhD in mathematics) should be all about learning why the equations are the way they are, and the proof of why. In doing a proof you have to figure out why something is correct, and without a doubt. In doing so you learn a lot about the equations, and why they are of particular forms. Granted, it is HARD, but rewarding. I would say that probably most of the most brilliant people go into math, because of a reward that no science can provide.
Math, really isn’t like most people think: solving equations. It’s about prooving things, the equations are a tool, and also what gets prooven.
Unfortunately, most people don’t get introduced to proofs until college, and likely after calculus, when it should probably be introduced in middle school, or high school at the latest. It also gives you a good foundation in logic, something else sorely lacking in most people.
I feel ya, man. I was excellent at math without even having to study until my second semester of college, when I finally got around to taking Calculus. Which was taught as a pure memorization course with no explanations whatsoever. Forget an F, I got literally a 5% in that class. (There was one short rather-unrelated chapter that actually involved thought/analysis, which I got 100% in, and then it was back to the 0%s.) Shocked me so much I took a year and a half hiatus to recover, and then could never get back into it. No core 1 degree for me!
Because by the time you get to high school math, the equations used are often derived, quite literally, from calculus. Until you take calculus, you just have to use the formulae. Now, Wikipedia often has derivations for equations. Keep in mind that the point of most teaching in high school these days is done with the intent of getting you to pass standardized tests, not for your direct benefit. If you go into a math-heavy major/occupation, you’ll find calculus to be of actual value.
After all the comments complaining about the difficulty of math here I’m going to get everyone upset at me by saying “I stopped studying for math tests in grade 6, and I still got A’s in math straight through highschool, because I’m just that good.”
A friend of mine is very smart and very capable, but they have to study a *huge* amount (like up till 12 – 3 am almost every day, unless there is a test, when it goes longer) to be able to memorize everything. Already bad ADHD + head injury is a bongo.
Nothing Sal says in panel 4 is wrong as such, it’s just that HR departments who do the hiring for any jobs you apply for have their own ideas on what counts in the end.
OK before people started to kill me for my comment, let me explain. The thing that rattled me about grades is that parents would usually force their children to get A’s, which is typically the truth in most, if not all, Asian countries. This pressure causes the children to only memorize the things that they learn for the exams only solely to get good grades rather than utilizing that knowledge in a real world scenario and these children would rather focus on studying above all else until they reach university and/or the workforce, where they were told that they lack the soft skills needed hence why Dumbass McMoron who couldn’t solve 2+2 suddenly gets a job because he works well with others while Smarty McGenius, who got straight A’s in his entire life, got rejected by every employer because of his lack of communication skill. Or that’s the way I see it.
PS: If anyone is offended about the name or anything else, I am sorry if I offended you.
“You show me anything that depicts institutional progress in America, school test scores, crime stats, arrest reports, arrest stats, anything that a politician can run on, anything that somebody can get a promotion on. And as soon as you invent that statistical category, 50 people in that institution will be at work trying to figure out a way to make it look as if progress is actually occurring when actually no progress is.” -David Simon
Yeah, when someone brought up “manual labor” above my first thought was “Why not go be an auto/motorcycle mechanic?” She’s probably got the aptitude, the job (from my understanding) tends to pay reasonably well, and she’d basically be doing what she already likes doing.
Though by the same token, I understand the mentality that turning what you like/love into your job can sometimes cause you to stop liking it.
at least in canada, i know welding pays a metric shit tonne of money. my friend went to school for small engine repair or something. and it’s freaking HARD to get a job. (small engine repair is where motorcycles would be going)
And trust us, you *really* don’t want to piss off a rocket powered Siberian sprinting cheetah. So make sure you study your taxonomy before you go a-hunting.
And I’d really rather cross a bridge designed by architects and engineers who got the math right. Oh, and built by people who know how to read a blueprint.
well, she does make a decent, if not overused, point on the mandatory “core” classes at most colleges. an english major taking math, a drama major taking any science, or a mechanical engineer having to take two freaking chemistry courses even though hes never going to use chemistry in his whole dam life
While a valid point, I’m not sure that’s the point she’s trying to make. Looks a lot more like she just “don’t got any use for none of that book learnin’.”
I don’t know how much credit to give Sal for the initiative she’s showing here, since Joyce shamed her into it. Is she *really* trying, or is she just showing up for the first time and being stunned that she doesn’t get more credit for it?
Part of the whole point of going to a Liberal Arts school is to learn about things outside your core focus. If you don’t want that, go to a technical school – that’s what they exist for.
Strongly, STRONGLY, disagree. College prepares you for a job, but it also makes you a more worthwhile human being. Required credits that encourage math / science students to take classes in history, philosophy, etc? Those are GOOD credits.
You’re only really in trouble if you wind up as a “jack of all trades, master of none” — as long as you’re just taking a few core classes to supplement your major, try not to whine too much about what you’ll never use in your life. If you think that “useless” math didn’t teach you about problem-solving, you’re just wrong.
I don’t think Sal has ever looked more attractive then she does in the fourth panel. I’m officially crushing like a teenager for a drawn fictional character.
*eyes first panel thoughtfully* …you know, that’s not actually an answer. And third panel isn’t a criticism, it’s literal truth combined with a compliment…
…if Jason is just trying to motivate her to do better out of sheer hatred, then, okay, he’s a terrible TA but I do admire his deviousness.
(Alternately he’s a jerk. I don’t rule out his being a jerk. But crackpot theories are fun!)
Argh. I know this is a comic about people making dumb mistakes, but this “Obviously you’re dumb and there’s nothing I can do” attitude from Jason is annoying. You’re a teacher, moron, what if you were to try teaching her?
Of course, Sal is completely wrong in that very particular way that college freshman are often wrong. “Rote knowledge” has a variety of uses, provided you’re smart enough to figure out what they are. Individual pieces of knowledge may not be useful, but that of course begs the question “Which ones?”
In Mathematics in particular, most of the skill lies in knowing when the formulae apply, not in actually knowing the formulae. And this generally requires one to develop skills in how to think about problems, rather than rote learning. And in my Maths exams at university, all but the most basic formulae were provided for us; I don’t know how it is in the US system.
In the US, I believe, whether you get the formulas depends on the person teaching the class. (I haven’t taken a math class in a while so I could be wrong.) But it’s considered pretty nice of the teacher to go ahead and give you the formulas–unless they’re very complicated, anyway, or you aren’t expected to have seen them before. So rote learning is an important component of US math much of the time, along with developing skill in how to apply those formulas.
Disagree. I’ve had plenty of tests where formulas were just on the test paper, more the rule than the exception. I’ve also had classes where learning how to use the graphing calculator was part of the class.
I always did exceptionally well in math just by virtue of showing my work; I’ve never had a teacher who didn’t give you at least partial credit even if you got the answer wrong, provided you went about getting that answer correctly. Memorization is NOT emphasized in math.
Why? I’d be pretty miffed and mean in the instance I was forcibly dragged from where I was to somewhere I didn’t want to be, point it out, have no one care, and said abductor see personal crap between me and some other woman too. That tends to put people in a pissy mood.
Eh, but this is a professional setting. Jason isn’t behaving like a professional and hasn’t during most of his interactions with Sal, no matter how rude she has been.
I’m a little confused. How fast is time moving here? I thought it had only been like… a week or two at best since classes began in-universe. Shit, has Sal even had time to be failing?
We’re somewhere in week two. Believe it or not it was only last weekend Joyce had the party incident (or a a year and a quarter).
Four days of which were skipped when Walky waiting for his Pyjama Jeans.
I’m surprised at the amount of surprise in some of these comments. It’s like some people have never seen the reaction of the average teacher to learning disabilities.
Which, from my experience, can vary between “oh dyslexia, we understand that and will bend over backwards to be accommodating for you” to “I haven’t heard of any learning disability such as yours so clearly you’re either being lazy, or you’re stupid.”
In the same teachers.
(Not that I’m saying she has one, but lagging in a certain area suggests she has at least a weakness in that area.)
I have a rather severe form of a learning disability called dyscalculia. It potentially affects a wider variety of ways the mind processes and understands things than it’s better-known cousin in literature, but the relevant point here is that it affects… maths. But of course, there was no way me trying could ever mean anything unless I did as well in maths as I “should” have been- in fact, clearly I was being lazy! (“Not worth the effort of helping” came up as well.)
Thank you, education system.
(Also, at no point have we seen what she wants to do with her life, so why are people going “Sal should just go and do manual labour”? Is that the assumption that if you’re not the “typical” kind of smart in an area of education that is often seen as one of the vitals, you shouldn’t kid yourself that you’re worth anything better than grunt work? ‘Cause if so, you know. Wow.)
Really good points there Jason.
Fortunately there are teachers, instructors, tutors, and professors even, who have actual skill in teaching as opposed to just knowing their subject well [rare] or having gotten their degree and then the job.
From personal experience in the education system up to high school I found that teacher quality was hit’or’miss. Mostly miss. Turns out the kids that always got the great grades either had interested parents who were well educated or at least could afford tutors.
When I went back to college I had the option to instead of taking the mandatory English class to tutor for an equivalent credit. Within a few weeks I was tutoring the classes I enrolled in to my classmates. It turns out that most of them were never taught the background skills needed for the courses they were taking. I drew on what impressed me from who I had considered good instructors/teachers while tutoring and latter on when I was a night-school instructor. [I miss those days]
First is the what, then there is the why followed by the how. That last one is where teachers and instructors who actually know their subject get separated.
Teachers follow the book and course outline to the letter. Those who actually know their subject and [gasp] interact with their students will add in things examples from experience or “tricks of the trade” . Like the physics rules of thumb for electromagnetics.
I’m glad you brought this up. I’m a special education teacher and the longer I do my job the more frustrated I grow with people who put all their stock in the idea of the traditional education system. Personally, I excelled at school. I was an excellent auditory/visual learner which is what you need in our education system to succeed and I have very high learning aptitude.
My students aren’t stupid and they’re not lazy. Our education system is flawed in such a way that if you don’t learn the way *I* do you don’t really learn at all. You get left behind and fall further and further back. Not all people with disabilities are what society thinks of as “disabled” – many of my students have goals to attend college and their peers often don’t even know they have a disability.
So this is off-topic and I’m not saying that Sal has a disability, but you have to consider that our education system is flawed and favors one kind of learner. What appears to be laziness can very very easily be beyond the student’s control.
on one hand I can understand slas position that she’s trying (though not that hard if her notes where blah blah blah…)
on the other hand, I can understand Jason’sposition that it dosen’t really matter if you try if you can’t actually do it. because think about it, she’s at the education level that is totally optional and s only needed for the obs where coetance is actually required; think about it, if a banker managed to loose all your money, or a surgeon loose a patient because of something thats their own fault rather than outside circumstances, would you want to punch them any less if they said sorry, but at least they tried?
Erm. If the banker or surgeon ACTUALLY tried their hardest but were unable to manage to do the right thing, compared to, say, them NOT TRYING?
You don’t think one would piss off the people they have to deal with more than the other?
“I’m sorry, we were unable to save your mother despite our best efforts” vs finding out that they just DIDN’T GIVE A FUCK?
My great aunt broke her neck in her eighties. The surgeon said that she would die no matter what they did, but that they could attempt to operate anyway.
She survived the operation and lived for nearly another decade before she died of completely unrelated causes (cancer.) Can you see the difference between if they never tried what they thought would fail, and the fact that they DID try what they thought would fail?
Trying- or not trying- makes a HELL of a lot of difference.
Do we even know what class she’s taking? Can we guess from who else is in it? Typical freshman options would be calculus, “finite math”, or remedial. I’m skeptical that she’s actually at a level where anyone normal just can’t learn it.
I’ve TAed at IU. They do have tutoring resources, and even accomodations for learning disabilities, though that’d require knowing/admitting you have one and telling the teacher.
As for rote memorization… a good math class IMO, and every one I’ve taken, teaches the proofs of what it’s teaching, so if you forget something you can rederive it. OTOH, on a test you typically don’t have the time to rederive everything you need from scratch. *ALSO*, it can be rather hard to learn higher levels if you don’t have lower facts drilled into your reflexes.
For example, watching students struggle with matrix multiplication when they have to stop and think about arithmetic — including remembering basic 6×7 facts, having trouble with fractions, having trouble with negative numbers — is painful, and I don’t think a TA could do much good there, at least in the time they’re paid for. Similarly, calculus without being comfortable with algebra or trigonometric identities is going to be a struggle. It’s not that the student is intrinsically incapable, but they’re seriously underprepared.
Sal got shipped off to Catholic boarding school, right? Hopefully good. But she was also JD, or at least troublesome. And maybe it was Catholic “troubled teen” horror camp. Either way, she could be trying to turn her life around but have been shortchanged, or shortchanged hersepf, in the prep.
Forgot to say, this isn’t even touching the “girls are bad at math” meme that my parents told me existed (part of my proto-feminist education) and which one of my students told me she got directly in 5th grade, IIRC from some gym teacher who was teaching her math classes. Sal might have missed that at a girls’ school, but we’re seeing Jason display “young hoodlums are bad at math” stereotype instead. And she is dark of skin as well…
To be fair to Jason, he didn’t take one look at her tattoo and assume she’s bad at math. She’s been tested in his class and they both frankly admit that she’s bad at math. And his responses are fairly understated in the face of the “I don’t need math because I’m aggressive!” argument she’s giving him.
She’s a freshman who’s been tested in her class for what, a week or two? And he’s leaping to “some people are just bad at math, you should drop the class.” And she’s not saying she doesn’t need math, she’s flipping off grades and rote memorization. Not very coherently, but he’s been massively rude on multiple dimensions. (Granted, she’s been demanding and impetuous and borderline violent.)
The problem is not that Sal is doing well or poorly, but that Jason is looking down on her for her performance. Her value as a human being is not predicated upon her performance in one, or any classes. It seems like he has an issue with assigning worth based solely upon class performance, and it seems like she is sensitive to that judgement (which would be expected with the history she has with her parents and brother).
Further, this judgmental attitude on Jason’s part, and the defensive attitude on Sal’s part, neither of which are relevant to her actual worth as a human being nor her ability to do math, completely derails the conversation from the math tutoring, which is ostensibly why they are there.
In short: Jason’s being an unprofessional jerk, Sal’s being unwarrantably defensive, and they should just shut up and kiss.
You know, what strikes me about the educational system and the people who criticize it, is that nobody ever seems to have any better ideas. Nobody steps up and says “if we do ___________, it will be better because _____________”.
Heh, you’re mistaken if you think no one ever has any viable solutions to suggest. Changing infrastructure is extremely expensive, and for an uncertain payoff no one wants to take that risk.
Yeah, that logic is rubbish (sorry Yoda). If you truly want something but you don’t have the skill level to do it, then there’s no point in not trying. How would you ever improve on yourself?
That’s not what Yoda is saying. Yoda referred in that scene to a very SPECIFIC version of “I’ll try.”
Remember, when Luke says that, he sounds extremely defeatist: he thinks he has no chance of succeeding. And when you go into something with the attitude of, “I’ll try, but it’s impossible,” you don’t tend to try very hard.
I’ve been reading Roomies! a bit, and does it still hold true that Walky is clever but irresponsible and doesn’t study much? In that case, Sal’s a contrast to that — not catching on immediately, but trying to study and improve herself. If Sal manages to deal with the rest of her problems, she might come out the better of the two for it.
Then again, Walky doesn’t seem to care about school anyway. He’d probably be happy, failing grades or no.
yes, he doesnt study and still gets straight A’s – he talks with Dorothy about it somewhere ( dont ask me which one lol) and it drives Dorothy bananas =)
Yeah — in that case, even if it’s working for him now, Sal might come out with the better work ethic of the two. …Even if that work ethic does involve manhandling Brits.
I’ve taught high school and university classes. I’ve seen many students who were bad at X still do fine. It often comes down to effort. Many freshman come to university thinking they can study as hard as they did in high school and be fine. It just isn’t the case. There are resources available in high school and universities. But the problem is they are rarely used until test time. Which by then it is normally too late.
My students had access to their grades the entire semester. Students could be having poor scores all semester and I would hear nothing. But as soon as the test gets near… that is when they come asking for help and extra credit. I’d have to respond with. “Sorry, but I can’t give you extra credit. But we can study after class or during my prep period.” By the time they come in Students were allowed to make up missed assignments for half credit. They could also redo any assignment and try to make up half of the points they missed. Even though they had these options they were rarely used.
We see her making the effort now, but we really don’t see her making much of an effort before.
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Well, he has some self-awareness, it would seem.
He knew this could happen the second he adorned the bowtie. But with great Bowtie, comes great responsibility.
But what Sal forgets is that Bow Ties Are Cool.
Sal didn’t bring up the bowtie though.
The only person who ever made bowties look cool was Dr Who.
Sal does have a point though.
about the education system or knowledge?
The education system. Sometimes getting good grades just means that person is good at remembering a bunch of trivia for just as long as they need to to pass the test.
Or they cheated.
Cheaters never win….except when they win.
Life sucks if you think about it.
and then you die.
This string of comments sounds like it should be a Mike quote.
Unless you’re immortal, then you have to deal with it forever.
or predicting what the teacher will ask
They’d probably still be more qualified for jobs in their fields than people who couldn’t pass the class.
True, but the thing is it’s not about how much you know, it’s about how often do you utilize what you know. Everyone knows how to cut up a person but only few knows how to do it correctly and do just that.
Theory and aplication can two completely different things.
Yes they can.
*nods* However, application is near impossible without the facts upon which to base it. To extend the surgery example, it doesn’t matter how deft a hand you are with a scalpel. If you don’t know human anatomy, you’re still going to be a piss-poor surgeon.
Oh he was talking about surgery … I see … *erases the dexter joke*
But you’ve also got to measure how hard she convinces herself shes trying against how much energy goes into this fist-waving drama involving blaming others, making this SO about her and her self-esteem, her less than loving parents, how said parents liked her brother best, and last but not least, how mind-blowing it is that her manchild-wannabe brother is having more sex than her just because it was brought up in passing.
What if all that energy WASN’T wasted on making excuses, blaming society and all that Dawson’s Creek shit? Probably would’ve thought twice before writing ‘Blah blah blah blah blah’ when taking notes for math aptitude evaluation in a University setting. Bet she was expecting an enraged Professor to do the “See me after class” number, huh?
Huh? Are you reading a different comic?
Sal hasn’t been making excuses and she hasn’t been complaining about her oh-so-horrid home life. And her talk about her sex life was before Jason even got the books out.
Whining is whining. Plus, check the past strips for this month and December that have anything to do with what Sal and Jason’s current venture.
…except, this is MATH.
Rote and memorization of trivia don’t work for MATH.
It’s all about learning and applying skills.
And I say this as someone who’s shit at math.
Jason is a dick. I hope he doesn’t stay this judgemental all the way through.
Jason’s being provoked…not really the best time to judge him on dickishness. I really don’t blame him.
Honestly, I’m kind of sick of the attitude that “I tried hard, I should get a passing grade”. Did you learn the subject to a point of proficiency matching or exceeding the average? If the answer is no, then you should not get a passing grade.
Sometimes, getting good grades simply means that the teacher likes you… Seen enough people trying to take advantage of that.
My teachers only liked me because I got good grades.
I went to a community college before transferring to my current top-ranked school. I prefer the community college by a long-shot, because while I have made straight ‘A’s at both schools, I actually learned things and furthered my understanding at the community college. I still crack up when I get a class like Genetics, where I know more about basic biology after 1 course than any of the non-transfer students do after 2.
Yeeeah. Jason is like the worst TA ever here. He should be trying to set her up with whatever version of Academic Services or tutoring IU offers – at the very least, giving her the phone number for them. That is literally part of his job.
Between the TAs and RAs in DoA, I say this college sure are bad judges of characters.
Well, it’s in Indiana. Everything is kind of terrible in Indiana.
…I say this as a current resident of the state of Indiana.
Well, maybe not everything. I am rather fond of the sushi place down the street from me.
Once you get outside of the major metropolitan areas, though… Yeah, pretty awful.
Ohhhh… *wipes nosebleed* I’ve never seen a certain magical miss with glasses. Sorry bout that Plasma… I’ll be on ym way now.
I have to admit that glasses for most part are a favourite charm point of mine.
Glasses sure are nifty, aren’t they?
Seriously, he’s complaining cause she’s failing his class but trying to get help from the TA? From my experience, more than half the class in any freshman-level class is failing because they just don’t care and don’t even bother trying to get help for the class. ^=__=^ Worst. TA. EvAr. And I’ve had a TA that was convinced that all of his students were conspiring with Facebook and Twitter to let the Chinese and “Indians” (not sure if he meant Native Americans or people from India but either way, makes no sense~) to take over America and make Americans their slaves.
*throws hands up into the air, wanders off*
She does? I can’t understand a word she’s saying when she’s angry. 😛
She’s sounding exceptionally Applejack in this one.
Bleh, I hate that accent so much! But I don’t remember her swearing quite so much. 😛
U just mad ’cause u losing.
Dump Punk is like Steam Punk only with the Three Stooges right?
Does this make Sal Moe?
Moe? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO……oh wait you mean Moe as in the name, not the Japanese crap thing……this is embarrassing.
Yes I mean Moe as in the guy with the bowl haircut, not whatever personal characteristics make you go SQUEE!
Moe isn’t all about the disgustingly cute. Hell one could argue the character in Plasma’s avatar has moments of moe in her spinoff series, havent seen much of the main show actually, kinda a shame…
I believe that’s the major difference between an individual’s personal idea of moe and so-called moe-anime, the latter slaps on loads of common moe elements in the hopes of attracting hardcore otaku, sometimes to the detriment of the series.
That is one hell of a snarl.
Why is sal even going to college? She’s obviously more cut out for manuel labor that anything a college education can get her.
…cuz..not everyone wants to DO manual labor. Just cuz you’re in the physical SHAPE to do it doesn’t mean you have any desire to do it.
But without knowledge it’s their only option.
It’s not like she’s not trying. Some people just struggle.
It’s kinda scary to think that Walky is the one with the brains.
She’s bad at math, but that doesn’t mean she’s bad at all learning.
To be fair to Sal, I, myself have problems with maths beyond Year 10 eg: Calculus.
Never really could do math too well once we hit highschool. In primary school math made sense. In highschool they stopped explaining math. “This is the formula you use to solve this problem.”
“How does that formula work?”
“You don’t need to know that.”
I don’t know why they teach it that way. In any other subject the method would involve the introduction of progressively more complex principles so that by the time you introduced a particular formular we’re capable of understanding why it works the way it does.
For that matter, if we’re talking about useless skills then memorizing formulas is absolutely useless. It’s like memorizing recipes. If I’m in a situation where that’s all I need then I can just write that shit down and memory won’t be an issue. Don’t say “you won’t always have your notes” I do. When was the last time you found yourself locked away somewhere with a desperate need to make a pastry or perform an equation without access to your notes? It’s never happened.
Nobody needs a teacher to teach them recipes. They can read. There are books full of them out there. They need a teacher to teach them how to cook. They need a teacher to teach them how ingredients work. Why the heck are we putting eggs in this cake mix? They are not sweet. Well, student, eggs are a binding agent. They hold everything together. Fan-fucking-tastic. Now I know what to look for if I’m ever looking to bake a cake without any eggs for whatever reason. A binding agent. Let’s learn a little bit about binding agents and their common applications shall we? That sounds like a lecture. Much better than just simply giving me a list of ingredients and then walking off like your job is done.
I am sorry, you had a shitty math department it sounds like. I could argue, that if they were just doing that they were basically not teaching mathematics, and not respecting you more than a computer.
Math, (One of my degrees is in math, and one of my family members has a PhD in mathematics) should be all about learning why the equations are the way they are, and the proof of why. In doing a proof you have to figure out why something is correct, and without a doubt. In doing so you learn a lot about the equations, and why they are of particular forms. Granted, it is HARD, but rewarding. I would say that probably most of the most brilliant people go into math, because of a reward that no science can provide.
Math, really isn’t like most people think: solving equations. It’s about prooving things, the equations are a tool, and also what gets prooven.
Unfortunately, most people don’t get introduced to proofs until college, and likely after calculus, when it should probably be introduced in middle school, or high school at the latest. It also gives you a good foundation in logic, something else sorely lacking in most people.
I feel ya, man. I was excellent at math without even having to study until my second semester of college, when I finally got around to taking Calculus. Which was taught as a pure memorization course with no explanations whatsoever. Forget an F, I got literally a 5% in that class. (There was one short rather-unrelated chapter that actually involved thought/analysis, which I got 100% in, and then it was back to the 0%s.) Shocked me so much I took a year and a half hiatus to recover, and then could never get back into it. No core 1 degree for me!
gangler: Your comment, and your example with recipes and eggs…. AMAZING. I wish I could Like this message or +100 it or something. That’s fantastic.
From a former teacher, who sucks at math. 🙂
Slipgate
Because by the time you get to high school math, the equations used are often derived, quite literally, from calculus. Until you take calculus, you just have to use the formulae. Now, Wikipedia often has derivations for equations. Keep in mind that the point of most teaching in high school these days is done with the intent of getting you to pass standardized tests, not for your direct benefit. If you go into a math-heavy major/occupation, you’ll find calculus to be of actual value.
After all the comments complaining about the difficulty of math here I’m going to get everyone upset at me by saying “I stopped studying for math tests in grade 6, and I still got A’s in math straight through highschool, because I’m just that good.”
A friend of mine is very smart and very capable, but they have to study a *huge* amount (like up till 12 – 3 am almost every day, unless there is a test, when it goes longer) to be able to memorize everything. Already bad ADHD + head injury is a bongo.
No, Manuel labour. She could wait tables. But in a restaurant. But in a terrible hotel.
Si, Mr. Fawlty!
The same reason her twin brother is going to college. Mommy and Daddy *made* them.
Nothing Sal says in panel 4 is wrong as such, it’s just that HR departments who do the hiring for any jobs you apply for have their own ideas on what counts in the end.
Sal is right. In the long run, grades doesn’t matter, ALL THOSE ACCOMPLISHMENTS IS FOR NOTHING.
OK before people started to kill me for my comment, let me explain. The thing that rattled me about grades is that parents would usually force their children to get A’s, which is typically the truth in most, if not all, Asian countries. This pressure causes the children to only memorize the things that they learn for the exams only solely to get good grades rather than utilizing that knowledge in a real world scenario and these children would rather focus on studying above all else until they reach university and/or the workforce, where they were told that they lack the soft skills needed hence why Dumbass McMoron who couldn’t solve 2+2 suddenly gets a job because he works well with others while Smarty McGenius, who got straight A’s in his entire life, got rejected by every employer because of his lack of communication skill. Or that’s the way I see it.
PS: If anyone is offended about the name or anything else, I am sorry if I offended you.
And I just raged pointlessly and explained things that people might not cared about.
I think you explained yourself quite well, to summarize what you said: Communication skills > Perfect grades at school.
I want to hear more stories about Dumbass McMoron and Smarty McGenius. Or, as they’re known in America, Goofus and Gallant.
G&G Is the only reason I go to the dentist or doctor (OK, I’ll admit I like “The Timbertoes”, too).
I got that! I got that reference….
Hey there Cap! How’s the shwarma?
annnd there goes the bag of cats.
“You show me anything that depicts institutional progress in America, school test scores, crime stats, arrest reports, arrest stats, anything that a politician can run on, anything that somebody can get a promotion on. And as soon as you invent that statistical category, 50 people in that institution will be at work trying to figure out a way to make it look as if progress is actually occurring when actually no progress is.” -David Simon
Yeah, because all bosses hire the best ones and not the most submissives, as it is totally known
You have truly offended me and my cousins, the McMorons.
So know how to fix a motorcycle is worthless? Then why does she have one.
You went to a school were they taught you how to fix a motorcycle? Luckyyyyyyyy.
I know a complete buffoon who has a job as a manager.
I can imagine that a number of tech colleges offer mechanical repair/maintainence classes.
Yeah, when someone brought up “manual labor” above my first thought was “Why not go be an auto/motorcycle mechanic?” She’s probably got the aptitude, the job (from my understanding) tends to pay reasonably well, and she’d basically be doing what she already likes doing.
Though by the same token, I understand the mentality that turning what you like/love into your job can sometimes cause you to stop liking it.
at least in canada, i know welding pays a metric shit tonne of money. my friend went to school for small engine repair or something. and it’s freaking HARD to get a job. (small engine repair is where motorcycles would be going)
Personally, Sal, I’ll take knowledge over “gumption” when it comes to, say, a heart surgeon any day of the week.
Prey your heart surgeon never cheated on that particular suject.
How does one prey upon a cheetah?
Stealth, good aimming skills and a trank-gun.
I find land mines are just as efficient.
The Cheetah can not out run bullet breaking the sound barrier.
Unless it is the rocket powered Siberian sprinting cheetah.
And trust us, you *really* don’t want to piss off a rocket powered Siberian sprinting cheetah. So make sure you study your taxonomy before you go a-hunting.
Cheating doesn’t equate to having that knowledge, so your point needs some tweaking to actually fit what you’re replying to.
A better way to phrase it is: It’s much easier to fake knowledge through cheating than to fake gumption.
I’d take legitimately earned knowledge over gumption.
And I’d really rather cross a bridge designed by architects and engineers who got the math right. Oh, and built by people who know how to read a blueprint.
well, she does make a decent, if not overused, point on the mandatory “core” classes at most colleges. an english major taking math, a drama major taking any science, or a mechanical engineer having to take two freaking chemistry courses even though hes never going to use chemistry in his whole dam life
Has it been established what her major is?
While a valid point, I’m not sure that’s the point she’s trying to make. Looks a lot more like she just “don’t got any use for none of that book learnin’.”
She does have a use for it, though- as she points out, she’s seeking additional teaching.
I think it’s more like what I was always taught about how knowing the answer is less valuable than knowing how to find the answer.
I don’t know how much credit to give Sal for the initiative she’s showing here, since Joyce shamed her into it. Is she *really* trying, or is she just showing up for the first time and being stunned that she doesn’t get more credit for it?
Part of the whole point of going to a Liberal Arts school is to learn about things outside your core focus. If you don’t want that, go to a technical school – that’s what they exist for.
Strongly, STRONGLY, disagree. College prepares you for a job, but it also makes you a more worthwhile human being. Required credits that encourage math / science students to take classes in history, philosophy, etc? Those are GOOD credits.
You’re only really in trouble if you wind up as a “jack of all trades, master of none” — as long as you’re just taking a few core classes to supplement your major, try not to whine too much about what you’ll never use in your life. If you think that “useless” math didn’t teach you about problem-solving, you’re just wrong.
This is where I finally realize that she went to school in Dogpatch and that all her teachers were kin of the Yokums, or worse.
All I’m seeing is a failed opportunity to use the phrase “daft punk.”
Would’ve fit in with Sal’s speaking too.
I don’t think Sal has ever looked more attractive then she does in the fourth panel. I’m officially crushing like a teenager for a drawn fictional character.
Can you ask a fictional character to marry you?
Yes according to a number of Japanese otaku.
I crush on Joyce, so what?
There is no hope for you.
Is it wrong that I have a crush on both Amber and Billie?
I have a crush on EVERY boy!
Oooh. Never seen Sal so angry before. Jason is lucky she left her alien-augmented strength in another universe!
Don’t you hate it when you leave your superhuman abductee powers in another continuity?
Her accent is getting mighty thick.
I cana’ read’a word’a it!
*eyes first panel thoughtfully* …you know, that’s not actually an answer. And third panel isn’t a criticism, it’s literal truth combined with a compliment…
…if Jason is just trying to motivate her to do better out of sheer hatred, then, okay, he’s a terrible TA but I do admire his deviousness.
(Alternately he’s a jerk. I don’t rule out his being a jerk. But crackpot theories are fun!)
Argh. I know this is a comic about people making dumb mistakes, but this “Obviously you’re dumb and there’s nothing I can do” attitude from Jason is annoying. You’re a teacher, moron, what if you were to try teaching her?
Of course, Sal is completely wrong in that very particular way that college freshman are often wrong. “Rote knowledge” has a variety of uses, provided you’re smart enough to figure out what they are. Individual pieces of knowledge may not be useful, but that of course begs the question “Which ones?”
In Mathematics in particular, most of the skill lies in knowing when the formulae apply, not in actually knowing the formulae. And this generally requires one to develop skills in how to think about problems, rather than rote learning. And in my Maths exams at university, all but the most basic formulae were provided for us; I don’t know how it is in the US system.
In the US, I believe, whether you get the formulas depends on the person teaching the class. (I haven’t taken a math class in a while so I could be wrong.) But it’s considered pretty nice of the teacher to go ahead and give you the formulas–unless they’re very complicated, anyway, or you aren’t expected to have seen them before. So rote learning is an important component of US math much of the time, along with developing skill in how to apply those formulas.
Disagree. I’ve had plenty of tests where formulas were just on the test paper, more the rule than the exception. I’ve also had classes where learning how to use the graphing calculator was part of the class.
I always did exceptionally well in math just by virtue of showing my work; I’ve never had a teacher who didn’t give you at least partial credit even if you got the answer wrong, provided you went about getting that answer correctly. Memorization is NOT emphasized in math.
Jason. I think you need more fist in your face. The amount you currently have is insufficient.
And more foot up his ass. 2000 of ’em.
Why? I’d be pretty miffed and mean in the instance I was forcibly dragged from where I was to somewhere I didn’t want to be, point it out, have no one care, and said abductor see personal crap between me and some other woman too. That tends to put people in a pissy mood.
Eh, but this is a professional setting. Jason isn’t behaving like a professional and hasn’t during most of his interactions with Sal, no matter how rude she has been.
Sent, shipped and delivered!
yeah? well Sal’s not being charged with assault
and felony kidnapping so I’d say it’s a fair trade-off LoLz
Sometimes love=hate is all I’m saying and given Jason’s less than professional behavior.
Maybe he secretly likes nubile ‘bad girls’.
Are you accepting volunteers to provide it?
As someone who lives in Maine, that is not how you spell moxie.
Most teachers teach how to listen, so few teach how to learn.
The bow tie will not permit education system villification in it’s presence.
The bowtie is actually a parasite that makes Jason prim and proper. He used to be a frat boy.
Exactly
The bowtie is a type of goa’uld?
I wondered why he started every lesson by shouting, “KREE!”
Agree Krogaladin.
I’m a little confused. How fast is time moving here? I thought it had only been like… a week or two at best since classes began in-universe. Shit, has Sal even had time to be failing?
Time skips are probable (and I think were actually mentioned).
We’re somewhere in week two. Believe it or not it was only last weekend Joyce had the party incident (or a a year and a quarter).
Four days of which were skipped when Walky waiting for his Pyjama Jeans.
You could start failing by the second day depending on how the class is set up.
The bow tie is immune to criticism
Jason on the other hand, is not.
Sal, just get in a study-group and stop whining.
Touche Douche
Touché* Or you would literally pronounce it the same way as Douche. 😛
…Touché Douché
Well said. 😛
Goodness. Winter might not last long at this rate.
I think she will benefit from the advice my father gave to my sister when she was having a rant.
“Go Get Laid!” 😛
Jason might benefit as well.
GotDAMN!!!! I love these two!!!!!!!
I’m surprised at the amount of surprise in some of these comments. It’s like some people have never seen the reaction of the average teacher to learning disabilities.
Which, from my experience, can vary between “oh dyslexia, we understand that and will bend over backwards to be accommodating for you” to “I haven’t heard of any learning disability such as yours so clearly you’re either being lazy, or you’re stupid.”
In the same teachers.
(Not that I’m saying she has one, but lagging in a certain area suggests she has at least a weakness in that area.)
I have a rather severe form of a learning disability called dyscalculia. It potentially affects a wider variety of ways the mind processes and understands things than it’s better-known cousin in literature, but the relevant point here is that it affects… maths. But of course, there was no way me trying could ever mean anything unless I did as well in maths as I “should” have been- in fact, clearly I was being lazy! (“Not worth the effort of helping” came up as well.)
Thank you, education system.
(Also, at no point have we seen what she wants to do with her life, so why are people going “Sal should just go and do manual labour”? Is that the assumption that if you’re not the “typical” kind of smart in an area of education that is often seen as one of the vitals, you shouldn’t kid yourself that you’re worth anything better than grunt work? ‘Cause if so, you know. Wow.)
Really good points there Jason.
Fortunately there are teachers, instructors, tutors, and professors even, who have actual skill in teaching as opposed to just knowing their subject well [rare] or having gotten their degree and then the job.
From personal experience in the education system up to high school I found that teacher quality was hit’or’miss. Mostly miss. Turns out the kids that always got the great grades either had interested parents who were well educated or at least could afford tutors.
When I went back to college I had the option to instead of taking the mandatory English class to tutor for an equivalent credit. Within a few weeks I was tutoring the classes I enrolled in to my classmates. It turns out that most of them were never taught the background skills needed for the courses they were taking. I drew on what impressed me from who I had considered good instructors/teachers while tutoring and latter on when I was a night-school instructor. [I miss those days]
First is the what, then there is the why followed by the how. That last one is where teachers and instructors who actually know their subject get separated.
Teachers follow the book and course outline to the letter. Those who actually know their subject and [gasp] interact with their students will add in things examples from experience or “tricks of the trade” . Like the physics rules of thumb for electromagnetics.
I’m glad you brought this up. I’m a special education teacher and the longer I do my job the more frustrated I grow with people who put all their stock in the idea of the traditional education system. Personally, I excelled at school. I was an excellent auditory/visual learner which is what you need in our education system to succeed and I have very high learning aptitude.
My students aren’t stupid and they’re not lazy. Our education system is flawed in such a way that if you don’t learn the way *I* do you don’t really learn at all. You get left behind and fall further and further back. Not all people with disabilities are what society thinks of as “disabled” – many of my students have goals to attend college and their peers often don’t even know they have a disability.
So this is off-topic and I’m not saying that Sal has a disability, but you have to consider that our education system is flawed and favors one kind of learner. What appears to be laziness can very very easily be beyond the student’s control.
The Sam and Diane vibe coming off of this is unreal. I give it 3 more updates until they kiss, tops.
on one hand I can understand slas position that she’s trying (though not that hard if her notes where blah blah blah…)
on the other hand, I can understand Jason’sposition that it dosen’t really matter if you try if you can’t actually do it. because think about it, she’s at the education level that is totally optional and s only needed for the obs where coetance is actually required; think about it, if a banker managed to loose all your money, or a surgeon loose a patient because of something thats their own fault rather than outside circumstances, would you want to punch them any less if they said sorry, but at least they tried?
also, hatefuck coming in three…
Erm. If the banker or surgeon ACTUALLY tried their hardest but were unable to manage to do the right thing, compared to, say, them NOT TRYING?
You don’t think one would piss off the people they have to deal with more than the other?
“I’m sorry, we were unable to save your mother despite our best efforts” vs finding out that they just DIDN’T GIVE A FUCK?
My great aunt broke her neck in her eighties. The surgeon said that she would die no matter what they did, but that they could attempt to operate anyway.
She survived the operation and lived for nearly another decade before she died of completely unrelated causes (cancer.) Can you see the difference between if they never tried what they thought would fail, and the fact that they DID try what they thought would fail?
Trying- or not trying- makes a HELL of a lot of difference.
Do we even know what class she’s taking? Can we guess from who else is in it? Typical freshman options would be calculus, “finite math”, or remedial. I’m skeptical that she’s actually at a level where anyone normal just can’t learn it.
I’ve TAed at IU. They do have tutoring resources, and even accomodations for learning disabilities, though that’d require knowing/admitting you have one and telling the teacher.
As for rote memorization… a good math class IMO, and every one I’ve taken, teaches the proofs of what it’s teaching, so if you forget something you can rederive it. OTOH, on a test you typically don’t have the time to rederive everything you need from scratch. *ALSO*, it can be rather hard to learn higher levels if you don’t have lower facts drilled into your reflexes.
For example, watching students struggle with matrix multiplication when they have to stop and think about arithmetic — including remembering basic 6×7 facts, having trouble with fractions, having trouble with negative numbers — is painful, and I don’t think a TA could do much good there, at least in the time they’re paid for. Similarly, calculus without being comfortable with algebra or trigonometric identities is going to be a struggle. It’s not that the student is intrinsically incapable, but they’re seriously underprepared.
Sal got shipped off to Catholic boarding school, right? Hopefully good. But she was also JD, or at least troublesome. And maybe it was Catholic “troubled teen” horror camp. Either way, she could be trying to turn her life around but have been shortchanged, or shortchanged hersepf, in the prep.
Yay, I’m happy!joyce again!
Forgot to say, this isn’t even touching the “girls are bad at math” meme that my parents told me existed (part of my proto-feminist education) and which one of my students told me she got directly in 5th grade, IIRC from some gym teacher who was teaching her math classes. Sal might have missed that at a girls’ school, but we’re seeing Jason display “young hoodlums are bad at math” stereotype instead. And she is dark of skin as well…
To be fair to Jason, he didn’t take one look at her tattoo and assume she’s bad at math. She’s been tested in his class and they both frankly admit that she’s bad at math. And his responses are fairly understated in the face of the “I don’t need math because I’m aggressive!” argument she’s giving him.
She’s a freshman who’s been tested in her class for what, a week or two? And he’s leaping to “some people are just bad at math, you should drop the class.” And she’s not saying she doesn’t need math, she’s flipping off grades and rote memorization. Not very coherently, but he’s been massively rude on multiple dimensions. (Granted, she’s been demanding and impetuous and borderline violent.)
I’m hoping this turns into a re-write of “My Fair Lady” that ends in Eliza(=Sal) completely humiliating Higgins(=Jason.)
The problem is not that Sal is doing well or poorly, but that Jason is looking down on her for her performance. Her value as a human being is not predicated upon her performance in one, or any classes. It seems like he has an issue with assigning worth based solely upon class performance, and it seems like she is sensitive to that judgement (which would be expected with the history she has with her parents and brother).
Further, this judgmental attitude on Jason’s part, and the defensive attitude on Sal’s part, neither of which are relevant to her actual worth as a human being nor her ability to do math, completely derails the conversation from the math tutoring, which is ostensibly why they are there.
In short: Jason’s being an unprofessional jerk, Sal’s being unwarrantably defensive, and they should just shut up and kiss.
I hope she gets used to that. She’ll be judged on her performance for pretty much the rest of her life. http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person/
You know, what strikes me about the educational system and the people who criticize it, is that nobody ever seems to have any better ideas. Nobody steps up and says “if we do ___________, it will be better because _____________”.
If we do [public execution of failing students], it will be better because [class averages will rise and students will be more motivated].
good idea, how do we get it implemented
I throw plenty of good ideas around but nobody ever listens to me because I’m a student. :c
Heh, you’re mistaken if you think no one ever has any viable solutions to suggest. Changing infrastructure is extremely expensive, and for an uncertain payoff no one wants to take that risk.
“Do or do not. There is no try.”
Yeah, that logic is rubbish (sorry Yoda). If you truly want something but you don’t have the skill level to do it, then there’s no point in not trying. How would you ever improve on yourself?
That’s not what Yoda is saying. Yoda referred in that scene to a very SPECIFIC version of “I’ll try.”
Remember, when Luke says that, he sounds extremely defeatist: he thinks he has no chance of succeeding. And when you go into something with the attitude of, “I’ll try, but it’s impossible,” you don’t tend to try very hard.
You have to remember that Yoda’s lines were written by a Hollywood writer and they’re not exactly known for their wisdom.
Jason may be an asshat, but goddamnit he’s a truthful asshat!
So…Is this what foreplay between a Redneck and an Englishman looks like?
Sal x Jason OTP <3
… I can't believe I just shipped someone.
Poor Sal just needs to discover khan academy 🙁
I’ve been reading Roomies! a bit, and does it still hold true that Walky is clever but irresponsible and doesn’t study much? In that case, Sal’s a contrast to that — not catching on immediately, but trying to study and improve herself. If Sal manages to deal with the rest of her problems, she might come out the better of the two for it.
Then again, Walky doesn’t seem to care about school anyway. He’d probably be happy, failing grades or no.
yes, he doesnt study and still gets straight A’s – he talks with Dorothy about it somewhere ( dont ask me which one lol) and it drives Dorothy bananas =)
Yeah — in that case, even if it’s working for him now, Sal might come out with the better work ethic of the two. …Even if that work ethic does involve manhandling Brits.
I’ve taught high school and university classes. I’ve seen many students who were bad at X still do fine. It often comes down to effort. Many freshman come to university thinking they can study as hard as they did in high school and be fine. It just isn’t the case. There are resources available in high school and universities. But the problem is they are rarely used until test time. Which by then it is normally too late.
My students had access to their grades the entire semester. Students could be having poor scores all semester and I would hear nothing. But as soon as the test gets near… that is when they come asking for help and extra credit. I’d have to respond with. “Sorry, but I can’t give you extra credit. But we can study after class or during my prep period.” By the time they come in Students were allowed to make up missed assignments for half credit. They could also redo any assignment and try to make up half of the points they missed. Even though they had these options they were rarely used.
We see her making the effort now, but we really don’t see her making much of an effort before.
It’s the third week of school.
Can we get a text-less image of the last panel? Methinks that would be one of the best avatars I’ve seen.
I have a bow-tie
your argument is invalid
Does the man in a bowtie happen to have a large blue police box? Or a fez?
Unfortunately, all the gumpton in the world won’t help you design an oil rig.
Or a spaceship.
Or much of anything, really.