I don’t agree. I think a lot of us have run out of patience for her, and understandably want the catharsis of seeing Jacob tell her to go screw herself and leave him alone, but I think Jacob, in-universe, would agree with the people who say it was really hard for Sarah to ask and that these strips have represented progress. Look at his face in Panel 2, then her face in Panel 3, then his face in Panel 5.
He would be well within his rights to decide this isn’t worth the effort, but do you really think he even looks frustrated with her in the last panel? Especially after how hopeful he was in Panel 4 and how close he got to a more honest response from her?
I don’t know that I see dating in their future, but at least for now I do see Jacob continuing to try to be an actual friend to her — the kind of person with whom she can let her walls down.
Again: not saying Jacob has any obligation to do that, not saying Sarah necessarily deserves it. Just saying I don’t think he’s giving up, or even discouraged.
I couldn’t agree with you more. I know that I personally am getting frustrated with Sarah, but I really don’t see that reflected in Jacob. I think he wants a connection of some sort with her and isn’t done trying to find ways to make that happen.
yeah, for some reason he does not give up yet. he does not seem too frustrated. Is he interested in dating her (or a version of her that can open up, at least) or just motivated to help her character development? i’m not even sure which of these i’d prefer.
I think he’s at least interested in being friends with her. More than that, I couldn’t say. I mean, I’m still surprised he wasn’t done with her after he last walked away in frustration — but apparently I’m forgetting a lot of interactions.
Like here, which admittedly had her fantasizing about him more privately in the strip before it; or this, a little bit more recently, where he was clearly charmed by her tsun(dere). Most relevantly, this and this and this and this.
I was distracted by the vaudevillian hijinx of Sarah going door to door in her humorously futile quest to find someone to break up Joyce and Joe, but everything from that short conversation in September is highly relevant to this conversation.
1. Jacob tells Sarah that Joyce told him she likes him. Sarah denies this, extremely unconvincingly.
2. Jacob prods Sarah about liking him a tiny bit, teasingly, and Sarah insists she not only doesn’t like him, she actually hates humanity in general! But then admits to caring a lot about Joyce, something she was previously unwilling to cop to.
3. Jacob tells Sarah he wants to be treated like a person, not a prop, and asks for honesty and openness from her. He also says that, if she can give him those things, he’d be happy to spend more time with her. (Sarah pouts and then hisses at the closed door.)
Like, all supremely relevant to this conversation. No wonder Jacob isn’t looking hugely discouraged; he already made progress with Sarah the last time they spoke (she admitted to caring about at least some people and was very transparently lying about not being into him), and this time he made even more progress.
While I hope that you were being exercised for something fun, like the ability to climb walls, I have a feeling that it was probably more something due to their skewed “moral standards”. I’m sorry that it happened.
Nah, it was fun. When I was in high school, our Friday night entertainment was going downtown and hassling the street preachers who’d come in from the ungodless wastes surrounding our blue town in the Bible Belt to convert the heathens.
My favorite was, when they approach and start to put their hand out, you grab it in that two-handed clasp-shake and say, as sincerely as you can manage, “Hi, my name’s John. Have you been saved?” And then while they’re trying to recalibrate because you stole their opening line, you inform them that if they don’t accept Eris Discordia into their hearts, or possibly other parts of their anatomy, when they die they’ll go to Thud, which is just like Cary, except somehow even more boring.
(If your name is not John, you can substitute your own if you prefer. Or just use mine. It may be even more confusing for them, particularly if you’re a girl.)
So, yeah, this kind of thing got me exorcised a lot.
One time we exorcised them. We had a whole thing with candles and a big pentacle we drew on the sidewalk with a piece of bark from a planter and a chant that we just made up. They left, so I guess our gods were better than theirs.
@VicMortimer That was an AMAZING read, thank you. Just. Absolutely legendary. The characters! The background, and world-building! The drama! The plot twists and turns! I mean, I’m sure it was very serious business for some of the people involved, but holy crud reading this feels like it’s straight out of fiction.
My exorcism drives all the priests off the streets
And they’re like, it’s better than ours
Damn right it’s better than yours
I can’t teach you, you’re a bunch of bores
What is it with Discordians that makes them the most fun people to be around while also leaving you less stable than you were before, without being able to pinpoint the exact reason? And yes, I know that’s all Nancy’s fault, but you won’t hear me admitting that, she gets miffed when she gets worshipped and that never ends well. Or worse, she takes an interest! And then you’re totall screwed.
It doesn’t have to be childhood specific. We know Sarah’s history at IU. We’ve seen her being even slightly social backfire on her hard. Just knowing the Raidah situation I think this all tracks.
You know speaking of the Raidah situation I wonder if that specifically is impacting her interactions with Jacob. She knows he dated Raidah, so as far as she knows he knows Raidahs version of what happened so she’s not sure how to handle him not being hostile to her because in her experience everyone who hears Raidahs version is hostile towards her.
We also know from Liz that as far back junior high/early high school Sarah was cold and standoffish enough that her boyfriend went to Liz for advice on her.
okay, got reminded way further down that the first part is not in fact true. sorry! we do know there’s a separation or divorce involved & Liz is a half-sister?
–Dave, if I read ALL the comments before commenting I’d have too many stored up by the end and they’d come out even more tangled
some people just ARE. It’s fashionable NOW to compare your traumas for credit, but there was actually a time when we didn’t want to relive them for vicarious thrills or to ‘win’ a contest of ‘whose life was shittier’. I know, hard to believe, isn’t it? Sarah is the way Sarah is, much the way Benedict and Beatrice are in That one Play by that Shakesperare fellah. *(I think it’s “Much Ado about Nothing”). she’s seen other people ruin their lives and doesn’t want to be one of them. She doesn’t have to be flashing a trauma sign, she might just be observant-young romance has nasty side effects, after all.
Maybe she’s just shy, or maybe she’s got a voice in her head saying “no, you don’t want to end up like Desdemona in “Othello”!!”
Or it could be that like a lot of us from that older generation, she first learned to compartmentalize her feelings so they didn’t get in the way and wreck her future. There are actual benefits to Denial and Repression, like saving a shit ton of money and not getting your other plans derailed because you caught Moonbeams in your brain and let your gonads do your thinking.
Just sayin’. she looks comical now, but when she’s rocking the six figure income while the kids who listened to their FEELINGS are trying to pay off six figure student loans with degrees that, plus a coffee machine, let you be a part time barista?
Hey now, don’t conflate compartimentalisation with denial and repression. Those are very different concepts. You can compartimentalize while still being sane as long as your life has parts of it where you can let those feelings out, preferably people. (Humans tend to function better if they have honest and deep social connections.)
Denial is when you refuse to notice that you have an issue, and when combined with compartimentalisation that never ends well since you then never air out those compartments and they will ferment and eventually pop in one way or another. If you’re lucky they will pop once, get everything out at once, and then you’ll be fine after a lot of re-integrating with the parts of you that were closed off before.
Repression is just an external attempt to keep such a compartment closed, which can be a short term solution, but it isn’t going to last and it will make the fermentation inside the compartment speed up like a pressure cooker.
As someone who literally never opened up until my 30s, I get the compartmentalization, I get the benefits.
Not sure I’d send anyone down that road though.
Money is nice. I enjoy mine, but it seriously messes with your head in a lot of other ways.
I don’t think any of this has anything to do with “comparing your traumas for credits”, whatever that means.
This is fiction. Fiction often – though not always as in the example you gave, digs into character’s pasts to explain their present behaviors and to help them grow. This particular fiction often does that. It seems likely that Sarah will go down that path and we’ll see some of it. Our interest in that as readers has nothing to do with the characters themselves comparing traumas for credits.
Even if Sarah’s attitude isn’t explained by a traumatic backstory (beyond what we already know with Dana), it’s pretty obvious she’s not happy with where she is emotionally, however much she might deny it. That seems a place for a growth arc, not a “No, it’s good to not be able to approach people you’re attracted to because maybe somehow you’ll make more money later.”
Not actually true. It’s easier to survive everything if you’re financially comfortable, but wealthy people are demonstrably lonelier and more paranoid. You start seeing everyone around you as greedy takers, and you stop being able to trust that anyone actually likes you as a person.
I see it more like he’s giving her an extra chance to do better. Alternatively it’s going, “you want even power, here, take it”, like very politely calling her on her bullshit.
His naivete is his overconfidence in his ability to do what you’re saying. He’s apparently missed that she asked him something in yesterday’s strip, and that she’s shown more than 0 percent vulnerability.
He is patient, and he is trying, but he’s just an ordinary guy, he’s not the feelings whisperer.
I think it makes him more interesting than super-hunky-guy-who-is-an-emotional-guru-perfect-in-every-way.
I’m honestly not getting “over confident” from him here. It’s totally subjective, of course, so your reading isn’t wrong, I just read it as him trying to de-escalate/figure out exactly what Sarah is trying to ask, because he doesn’t know. I think he is self-assured and has confidence in himself, but to a much healthier and realistic degree than Dorothy.
Aside from reading his tone differently, I totally agree that he is a normal (well adjusted, emotionally mature) guy doing his best. My favourite thing about DoA is that all the characters are so developmentally realistic.
not arguing, just something I thought of and wanted to add.
I don’t think he understands being introverted. https://www.dumbingofage.com/barbell/ in this strip, she’s basically set up to fail. She’s not going to be able to come up with something to talk about, and she even says that. But her job as a spotter is to watch him, so she’s going to end up staring at him unable to think of anything to say.
He could have asked her what her least favorite song was. That’s a relatively safe question to answer, but it still gets her to talk about personal things.
Jacob’s an extrovert, it feels like he thinks “just jump in the deep end and start swimming laps” should work.
Jacob is demanding that Sarah act like an adult, because if she can’t make herself vulnerable, then a relationship is doomed to failure. She HAS to be willing to take the chance.
He can hold open his arms to catch her, but if she’s not willing to take that step forward then it’s not going to be healthy.
Nah, he isn’t misunderstanding her here- he is standing his ground. He has made his terms clear and is willing to abide by them. That his terms are openness and honesty makes them no less his terms.
That’s why he is willing to repeatedly allow her the opportunity to meet his terms, but he really doesn’t seem especially put back that she isn’t able to meet them.
I’m surprised so many peeps have turned against Sarah for not knowing how to talk to a crush. When it comes to pure dating or socializing romantically Joyce might actually have more experience here. So why are we all mad Sarah’s bad at something she doesn’t know how to do?
Because Sarah’s version of being “bad at talking to her crush” is Yelling at them like a child. I know it’s a comic and it exaggerates but Sarah’s literally just displaying some real obnoxious behavior. Sarah’s been dismissive of Joyce and Joe and when she’s alone with Jacob she refuses to talk to him and just makes a point of staring at him like a slab of meat. Jacob is clearly uncomfortable and trying to open up and she’s just doubling down and UGH.
I dunno why I shouldn’t hate her right now. She’s acting like an incel.
When you put it like that, yeah, if the situation was reversed her behavior would probably look even less sympathetic in most people’s eyes.
Like Sarah, I also have a tendency to avoid the possibility of rejection or judgment like the Black Plague, so I can’t feel too angry at her here. But at the end of the day having unresolved issues does NOT give you the right to lash out at others as a way to cope. She should just curl into a ball and roll away at the first sign of emotional vulnerability, like me
Not saying you’re wrong to dislike her, but “incel” is a very specific type of behavior. There are female incels, absolutely, but Sarah isn’t exhibiting that specific set of toxic behavior.
There’s no “all men are evil treacherous bongoes who should be punished for not fawning over me”, there’s not even any blaming Jacob for not being into her.
Natural consequences of raising generation after generation of males to believe they have some God-given right to get laid. So now they feel like their critical rite of passage has been arbitrarily denied them, and so they are incomplete or defective.
B****, please. Try being an ugly lesbian sometime.
No, but there is weird undertones of Joyce being happy with a compliment and Sarah/Dorothy going “Obviously he said that. You’re literally ANY woman and Joe would say that to anyone.” Now obviously there’s the connotation of it being JOE. But between that and Sarah refusing to talk to him while sweating over him lustfully and getting all mad when he calls her on it. I think calling it “incel behavior” isn’t a huge stretch.
I’m not saying she IS an incel. But that is behavior an incel would fall into. Debasing others for their romantic success. Staring at her crush wordlessly while he works out cuz it’s hot. Getting mad and belligerent when called out on her behavior. Blames HIM for her reactions.
Yes I know there’s incels who do violence and death threats and Sexual assault but it doesn’t mean that any behavior less than those extremes cannot be called out. She’s behaving like a turd under the implication of being “bad with people”.
Call her a jerk, an asshole, a creep — all fair game. I’m definitely not saying you have to like her or think this is acceptable behavior.
(I do disagree that she was mad at Jacob for calling her out, though; I read that as mortification and anger at herself, which then shone through when she spoke to him. Not great, but not at him. That’s just us having different opinions about the character though, and who’s to say who’s right?)
But to me, while I would agree “incel behavior” is a spectrum, I would say it has to involve some measure of entitlement and dehumanization. It’s more than just leering at someone or being creepy. There has to be a level of indignation and dehumanizing possessiveness, and the only time Sarah has ever been remotely possessive of Jacob was when she got briefly competitive with Raidah over him.
Like, the fact that she was seemingly entirely happy to let Joyce date him instead? That to me is the antithesis of incel behavior, no matter how much of an asshole she was being at the time. If that makes sense?
Anyway, if you still disagree that’s fine, I just wanted to better explain my objection to the term.
(And I had a better version of this written first but then the browser refreshed and I lost it 😭)
“I read that as mortification and anger at herself”
This is kind of what I’ve been thinking about a lot. Especially when there’s the “Raidah was right” comments. Raidah’s not the character who thinks the lowest of Sarah, neither is Lucy. Sarah talks the most shit about Sarah. She thinks she’s unloveable.
Like yeah, she is technically yelling at him, but I don’t think any of it is furious or scary-anger yelling. Would not be surprised if she went to sit in a corner to pull herself together now, or left the exercise room to find a private space to cry from the stress of this interaction.
I think part of why I feel that way IS Jacob’s reaction, and the more I reread the strip, the more sure I am that he’s not reacting the way he would if she were actually screaming at him. If that makes sense?? His reaction, which seems to be fond exasperation, tells me she’s more flustered and spun out than angry at anyone but herself.
I have heard incels compared to both drug addicts and people with “main character syndrome” (ie I can’t get into trouble doing something because I am me or I deserve all these things and being waited upon because I am me). Both have a focus on getting what they desire while treating other people as more “less than”, so maybe a bit narcissistic?
Considering people’s brains are basically still developing until their early 20s, I don’t know what Sarah’s home and social life was like before she came to college, and I don’t know if she has autism or something else that makes it harder to understand what is socially right or wrong, I don’t want to judge her too harshly yet. There is also the possibility of comedy in this, where it is over dramatized in the comic than what would have actually happened in real life. Though considering some of the videos people post nowadays of yelling randomly in public, I feel like it is becoming more possible.
Maybe I’m just reading it differently but I see all the steps Sarah took just to get here. Misanthropic, anti-social Sarah elected to seek Jacob out, initiated a sort of reconnection with him, albeit with ulterior motives. She elected to see him again here at the gym, and just essentially admitted she likes him. Jacob just wants her to blatantly ask him, ironically not willing to be vulnerable himself since he already knows she likes him. I think this is well above what’s expected of her considering the last time she actively pursued Jake she gave up immediately.
I also think the yelling is exaggerated humor but I have no ground to stand on with how people read jokes. I’m still salty Amber provoked Dina into attacking her one time just to avoid interacting with Walky.
The difference is that being vulnerable is easier for Jacob. At least we can assume that by him a way more well adjusted human than Sarah. I don’t disagree with his actions or anything. I just think he should know asking stuff like this right after Sarah had a small breakthrough is a bit too much, too soon. In workout terms Sarah just hit a personal best and Jacob wants another rep.
Being vulnerable isn’t necessarily easy for anyone. That’s why it’s called being vulnerable. I think it’s reasonable for Jacob to want Sarah to talk to him like a normal person, not through the guise of it being his responsibility to tell her how he feels cuz it’s UNFAIR. That’d just be rewarding her for her weirdly antagonistic behavior.
From his perspective Sarah recently showed up to ask him to seduce Joyce away from his friend Joe, then proceeded to try to make “spotter” a word for “ogler” as he attempted to actually talk to her. Then when she finally said more than a sentence it was to somebody else about how much his friend sucks. When he decided he had enough she starts WHINING.
I’m not disappointed in him for not realizing she’s had a breakthrough and hit her limit. I’m disappointed in him for giving her another chance at all.
I would like to point out here that Walky’s version of not knowing how to talk to a crush involved throwing a toy at her head and some pretty silly behaviour following that too, and he’s somehow better socially adjusted than Sarah. I take both the toy-throwing and the ‘see you in hell!’ yelling as pretty run of the mill rom-com style exaggerated hijinks *shrug* It can’t be too easy for characters to get together after all.
Yes, and Ruth forced a kiss on Jennifer, and Joyce tried to aid in converting a gay guy, and Sal likely underpaid for the bike Danny gave her before riding off, and Jennifer sends mixed signals to manipulate her boyfriend into acting how she wants, and Lucy moves way to fast and confuses love with horniness. I feel like Sarah’s doing okay by the standards set so far. Why do we have such high expectations for the grouchy hermit?
Some folks are definitely reading a level of nastiness and maliciousness into Sarah’s behavior that I just do not get. Everyone is fully entitled to draw a line in the sand and say they wouldn’t enjoy being talked to this way, but man do I not hear any actual meanness from her. Only clumsy, flustered flailing that I think Jacob is clearly not taking personally.
I think it’s easy to overlook because she puts up a strong front, but Sarah is still actively targeted by bullies. Because it’s easy to say she should calm down, open up to people, and build genuine connections, but I don’t know how I would actually help her do that when there’s genuinely a group of petty people out there plotting to turn everyone she knows against her, and they currently have a 2/3 success rate.
Something used to write before pens were made that contain the ink. It is now stored inside pens, so normally isn’t an issue unless the pen breaks or you write on yourself. Nowadays it is used if your are doing old style calligraphy, which we did one in an art class in junior high. I also used it once to give a black background to a crayon drawing in 8th grade, because the nature of the crayon drawing repels the ink (oil vs water) and everything that doesn’t have crayon on it is colored black. Works with other water based colors, but not any oil based paints. Wiki says that there are different types of ink, but I don’t know much about that. You also see it in newspapers and other printed forms of media, including home printers. The oriental brush painting kit I got as a kid included an ink stick that you would grind with water to make ink.
Sarah loosening up with Joyce has been a slow process because Joyce is so unflappably chipper, but she’s still Sarah. That’s what this storyline is about I assume — she has to actually suck up to the idea that she can’t keep living like this if she actually wants human contact, especially hot, sweaty, barrel-chested human contact.
honestly at this point idk if she can handle any kinda first date/intimacy if this is how she reacts to a conversation. like, other than being high off endorphins i can’t imagine her being able to be comfortable enough to handle a kiss, let alone actually any kinda bedroom time unless she gets like wasted first which i assume she doesn’t rly do either way
Tho, would be hilarious to end in a strip of her with “other jacob” and joyce hanging out in joes room b/c she can’t be there the rest of the time lol
It’s a total diceroll where she’s going with this but at some point she’s gotta realize she’s going to be lonely and horny forever if she doesn’t dig her heels in and be vulnerable in some way.
For some it gets easier, at least past the first date. Those are always awkward.
It’s the initial meeting/showing interest part that’s really hard. Opening up the barriers enough to let someone through.
Once they’re inside the barriers, then you can relax.
@jeff: sure but this is sarah we’re talking about, she basically had to help joyce through some legit traumatic experiences to open up/show a softer side, tho hopefully it’d be easier with jacob and nothing quite that dramatic. Or ‘dramatic’ by teens/young adult standards and not the ‘outlier’ that is joyce’s wild first year or so XD
Sarah’s problems seem more like peer problems. Twice, when shit was hitting the fan, (Dana’s grief driven depressive spiral, Joyce being roofied) her idea was to call their parents. I think that’d be less likely if she felt betrayed by her own parents.
Because the whole point from yesterday is that she’s angry that she doesn’t know how he feels about her, because she can’t bring herself to open up even a tiny amount to show anything remotely resembling vulnerability and ask.
Idk dude, I’m still unconvinced this is pedantry. Like, being pedantic is making someone use the exact right word when a less precise one would be understood, or enforcing that no one hang their participles or something. This isn’t really enforcing a rule, it’s just being contrarian. I mean, your “prolly” correction the other day was more pedantic, and even that was more wrong than pedantic.
I think you need to take another crack through the AP style guide or the blue book before you can claim “Pedantic” here.
i’d imagine she’d still react a similar way if he was like “You know I want a relationship based on more than just physical looks sex, are you able to give me that” or whatever lol
I think the most logical interpretation to me is that she’s deeply considering asking him, and is answering herself and him and the whole situation “who asks something like that? That’s weird” with the “you’re weird” directed at both him for proposing that she ask, and the vision of herself actually asking him.
My read is that possible questions were running through her head and the “who asks something like that? That’s weird” bit was at herself about the question that had reached the top.
Pretty much. And it seems like they start earlier and earlier every year. I do have to say that working at any place that plays repetitive songs all the time is basically hell for the workers. Also, I have an urge to play summer fun music during this time of year to spite the Christmas songs all the time people. Must get it from my grandpa, as he was the one driving around late at night one time blaring classical music in a parking lot to combat the young people blasting loud modern with their car. It drives me crazy how people don’t seem to respect others’ personal space with sound and light (bright white headlights anyone?).
I’m not seeing any torpedoes here tbh, especially not on Jacob’s part. I don’t read Sarah as being mad at him, I read her as uncomfortable and vulnerable and afraid and self-sabotaging. And I’m pretty sure Jacob already knew she was like this and was half-expecting something along these lines. (He still has every right to feel disappointed, ticked off, and even a bit confused though I think.) Finally, from a story perspective I don’t think that all this tension and conflict and emphasis on their relationship and Sarah’s unresolved feelings is going to just fizzle out like this – whether that ends with them getting together or not, their story has not yet hit its denouement.
Well I think that torpedoes any chance that they had as a couple. Jacob needs someone like Joyce anyway, with less underhanded tactics, like Lucy.
So question: Do you think Sarah and Jacob have any chance of developing a romantic relationship? And who do you think would make him happiest? For the latter question, assume all people are suddenly single.
I think that if Sarah were more sincere, I think Jacob would give her the opportunity, of course this time Joyce didn’t intervene.
Regarding the last question, if everyone were single, many have put Lucy as options and some, I think, still love that Jacob is with Joyce. It seems like the most obvious answer is Lucy. But it wouldn’t be bad if this time Sarah were given another chance and see what really happens.
Curiously, in previous strips, many also saw a possibility with Dorothy, it sounds difficult for the simple fact that beliefs are a factor that prevents it, however, they have certain things in common that an interaction is interesting to see, if a friendship, of course it is valid, but it would be fun to see some reactions and certain jealousy in some characters, I mean, now it turns out that Joyce is going to allow people to get close to Dorothy.
Joyce did intervene though. She intervened by putting Sarah in this situation in the first place. She mentioned Jacob in their room, knowing that Sarah would change her mind and come to the gym with her solely because of that, when Sarah otherwise would have not come at all. And, of course, there was the whole “bodily picking up Sarah and placing her in front of Jacob as a potential spotter” thing.
Everything after that was all Sarah, though, true enough.
I think if Sarah was able to get past her limits enough to actually open up to Jacob, I suspect they’d do pretty well. I’d also guess that’s the direction the story is heading – successfully or not. Seems the best way to get character growth for Sarah.
It seems obvious to me that she’s interested in more than just the body, even if she’s terrified of the idea of anything more.
I don’t know who can make Sarah OR Jacob happy, but I don’t think they’re personally compatible for each other 🙁 apologies to anyone who ships them; I just think they want different things.
Ehhhh. For all that Lucy and Joyce are similar characters, I dunno that I think Jacob would feel that much less objectified by Lucy’s current modus operandi. Maybe after she’s calmed down some?
At this point I genuinely hope nothing ever happens with them. Sometimes your chance passes by before you fix your own problems and I hope this ends up the case. Sarah figures out how to say she likes him just in time to see him propose to Lucy. And/or Walky.
As long as we’re being counterfactual, I think gay Jacob could actually do well with Ethan. Yes, Ethan is in a slump right now, but hanging out with Jacob could pull him out of it. When Ethan isn’t depressed/emo he’s got some depth to him.
Apparently several people have suggested Lucy. I don’t think Lucy would be right for Jacob. She doesn’t have enough depth. She’s nice enough, but I don’t think she’d hold his attention and engage his heart – just his kindness.
given the brief attraction jacob had to joyce, i’d imagine a post breakup lucy would be better to date, if she’s able to get over walky, if not just becoming a friendship and a shoulder to lean on but i imagine jacob and lucy wouldnt have as much chances to ‘cross paths’ but you never know (tho idk if it’d be in chara for her tho i’m sure it’d be gratifying for others to see her gloating about it in front of sarah lol)
I think that Joyce and Lucy are only superficially similar and the parts Jacob liked most about Joyce we haven’t really seen in Lucy. Perhaps only because she’s not the main character and hasn’t had the same horrific chances.
She has not, for example, punched out a kidnapper.
I do think that Sarah and Jacob have a chance and I’d like to see it happen. It’d be a stormy relationship, but some people find that stimulating (or so I hear). I think they’d both be ready to bend a little more.
I mean I’d like to see it happen. I’m a sap and I love Sarah, I wanna see her grow. I always enjoy the ship dynamic of slowly thawing/carving away the walls around someone’s heart with love and patience. It’s no one’s responsibility to do that of course, Jacob has every right to not want that and I’d actively discourage it irl. But fuck if it isn’t nice to watch in media
Right, that was actually kind of adorable. She 1 basically said it’s not fair for her to not know if he likes her like she likes him when she talks to him because it’d be too much of a risk for her. Then she basically panicked and left.
I like Sarah, and it’s sometimes one of those things where if someone asked me, “Do you like Sarah as a person or a character or both?”, it’d sometimes be tricky to answer.
I dunno, her flailing here is amusing to me, but also frustrating? She can be such a shit sometimes, but then come through in a big way in others. All of this feels wholly intentional, though, like I’ve never left a strip thinking I am feeling differently about Sarah than what Willis wholly intended.
Since she made her introduction in this strip, you already get the idea of the type of character she is, and the truth is that it is very rare that you dislike her, she is not my favorite, but to say that she is HORRIBLE seems a little exaggerated to me, Throughout this comic, she has been like a roller coaster, she goes up and down, but as you say, it’s complicated, but to say that she is the worst in Dumbing of Age…nope
If Willis intends me to dislike Sarah, it’s not working. She’s frustrating sometimes, and bad mistakes, she’s made a few. She’s had her share of sand kicked in her face, but she’ll make it through.
I admit sometimes her moaning feels it goes on and on and on and on, but at the end of the day at her core I think she’ll always be the champion wielding a baseball bat who has been exactly the friend Joyce needed 👑
RN it’s pretty easy to judge Sarah for being completely unreasonable, but… that’s precisely when it’s time to put down the question of sympathy and try to apply empathy. I’ve been burned enough times to understand exactly how she feels
Also I don’t normally comment on the art, but I just feel like Jacob’s strip of hair is falling a bit low here. Starting to give me Homer Simpson vibes.
Also pretty darn ace (somewhere in the gray ace zone), and yeah. Basically it would be neat to see someone folks can at least headcanon as aroallo, I guess, instead of aroace? Whether they explicitly claim that label for themselves or not.
And yeah, I didn’t even think of Sal or Jennifer/Billie, but they’re definitely both MORE examples where I think only wanting casual sex was more about being immature or in denial about really wanting flowers and candy and all the Date parts of dating someone long-term.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that either; that’s a real experience too! Some people really are late bloomers, some people really do have trust issues that make it hard to open up and be vulnerable enough to admit what they want… etc. I’d just like one counter example to balance it out. 😆
But also, Willis is but one human being and this is but one webcomic. 🙂 Can’t single-handedly fix all our representation problems by themself!
i wonder if ppl will soften on her (not that jacob ‘owes’ her a chance, relationship wise versus just being friends for now) if Dana somehow came back in the pic just t obe like “you were right, itwas better for me in the long run because of what you did” lol
I think people in the comments will, but… I won’t.
I don’t think Sarah was in the wrong there, for the record. But that she handled it badly, and everything after was handled even worse, and that’s where the problems are mainly coming to.
But either way, it shouldn’t matter what the end result was. I generally take the philosophy of “The right play is the right play, regardless of the outcome” or, alternately, “If its stupid but it works, its still stupid, and you got lucky”.
The outcome of a decision can only weigh so much on the quality of the decision itself. If you make it based on flawed evidence, that can change things a bit, but sometimes like’s going to flip you off when you made every right decision, and you just have to be able to handle that.
Honestly, part of me wonders what would be better for Sarah: Dana to come back and say everything worked out great, or to find out that what happened only made things worse. Because while I don’t think Sarah was in the wrong for what she did, the way she did it was flawed, and the affirmation that it all ended for the best might reinforce all of her bad habits…
If you think it was the right decision, what do you think was wrong about the way she did it?
This is a take I don’t think I’ve seen before, so I’m curious.
A small factor is that she didn’t make sure that her home was a safe place for her. I’m not hitting her heavily for that, because its a hard thing to confirm on the down-low, but it is a legit worry to have.
The bigger factor to me is that there’s no follow-up. That Sarah doesn’t know what happened to Dana after she got pulled from college, that she doesn’t really seem to care. Its just not hard to see why people would read that she backstabbed someone going through some somewhat manageable shit to preserve her perfect studying environment, because she hasn’t gone even a bit out of her own way to see how Dana’s actually faring.
I think that’s an understandable way for other people to read Sarah, and admittedly we are well into the realm of speculation now, but it does seem like all of Dana’s friends turned on Sarah pretty fast after she got in trouble with her parents. Dana herself probably did some yelling and screaming in the heat of the moment.
Even if Sarah tried to follow up, who’s to say Dana would have taken her calls or replied to emails instead of just deleting them?
lol wonder if he would’ve agreed to a ‘date’ if she had asked tho, considering that piece of meat line, as opposed to phrasing it in a way that’s like “let’s do something like this again sometime, but just you and me, maybe with joyce chaperoning from a distance”, so slightly less pressure. (tho i can’t imagine sarah doing a kiss after the first date or so unless she just panics and impulsively does it before running off lol)
You know, I don’t feel like I can comment on this too much, as I’m not a child of divorce, but I’m sure a big part of why Sarah has a difficult time being vulnerable (other than other experiences we know about like Dana) seems to be due to the fact that her parents are divorced/separated. They separated when Sarah was likely a toddler, since Liz has a different dad and Liz describes Sarah as being from a ‘previous relationship’. We don’t know how close Sarah could be with her stepdad, but she definitely doesn’t seem close to her bio dad since she specifically notes that Liz’s dad pays her tuition, with the implication her’s does not.
I think if Sarah were to sit down and have an emotionally vulnerable conversation with Joe, as both are kids of divorce, it’d be very good for her. Again, I can’t speak from MY experience, but both of my parents were children of divorce, especially the kind where the father in each instance went on to get married and have more kids, and had a distant relationship with their previous kids. It uh, definitely leaves a mark.
I don’t think Sarah’s really talked about the divorce, which is unfortunate
(Joyce’s situation was an opportunity, but Joyce went to Joe instead — fair, and I’m sure there were multiple reasons (like it having been a more recent event in Joe’s life, and Joyce not at the time caring as much about his opinion of her, which made him a safer outlet for feelings she didn’t necessarily feel great about harboring))
but it’s totally possible that’s a factor in how shut-down we’ve always seen her be about the possibility of relationships.
Mind, I’d like to see a character in this strip who’s only into casual sex because that’s just how they roll, rather than it being a front to hide their fear of intimacy (Joe, potentially Sarah), or any other extenuating circumstances (I feel like it’s very hard to separate Roz’s attitude towards sex from her backlash towards Robin, and Malaya… well, who knows what’s going on with them, but they definitely went after Joe to be an asshole rather than because they’re into casual sex).
Like, as long as you are upfront about things, there’s nothing wrong with not being interested in a relationship, and it doesn’t require a Freudian Excuse. :|a
All the Drama aside, it’d be hilarious for Sarah to get drunk and finally have expressive feelings and wakes up to have it hit her she and Joe had the most meaningful emotional conversation she’s had in years. And also they banged. Like a lot.
Pff. As long as neither of them are upset about the sex, I wouldn’t mind seeing that.
(Sarah can be upset about the emotional intimacy, though. Reminds me of an old French language joke about two Frenchmen who get drunk together and work their way all the way down to the most intimate version of the word “you”, then are so embarrassed in the morning that they never refer to each other by pronouns ever again.)
Yeah to be clear, this isn’t some blackout smash cut, just morning regret. More the smash cut of “I don’t even want to talk to you… I can’t believe I just had a sexy feelings Jam what the hell.” Though for the drama “oh. Oh Joyce exists. Any chance she slept with Dorothy last night and can’t possibly be mad about this? Nope. Nope she’s just asleep in the hall. Oh shit.
Ye no worries, just had to be extra clear for my own piece of mind. I was 99% sure you meant Normal Drama wrt accidental infidelity between unlikely parties, not like… trauma orz
Thank you for the thoughtful addition Li! I also really like the last bit you said. As an asexual person, I’m kinda the reverse where when I’m interested in a relationship I don’t want the sexual part, but I’m 100% for the reverse as well. Like you said, as long as people are being honest then there doesn’t have to be a reason why someone might not want the relationship baggage that comes with relationships/sexual encounters. Honestly, relationship baggage is why I’ve been single for a decade. Being single is a worthy choice, as is wanting to be in a relationship, as is casual sex. Different people need different things!
As for characters who are into casual sex… it seems like that was how Sal rolled, with Danny being her first foray into a relationship, and Jennifer/Billie was the same way, where Ruth was the first time she actually went out on a date. Unfortunately, the examples I can think of uh… inevitable end up in relationships so I’ll get back to you if I think up more possibilities.
Also pretty darn ace (somewhere in the gray ace zone), and yeah. Basically it would be neat to see someone folks can at least headcanon as aroallo, I guess, instead of aroace? Whether they explicitly claim that label for themselves or not.
And yeah, I didn’t even think of Sal or Jennifer/Billie, but they’re definitely both MORE examples where I think only wanting casual sex was more about being immature or in denial about really wanting flowers and candy and all the Date parts of dating someone long-term.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that either; that’s a real experience too! Some people really are late bloomers, some people really do have trust issues that make it hard to open up and be vulnerable enough to admit what they want… etc. I’d just like one counter example to balance it out. 😆
But also, Willis is but one human being and this is but one webcomic. 🙂 Can’t single-handedly fix all our representation problems by themself!
I think the 2 best headcanon candidates I can think of rn are Malaya and Jason. Both have their own drama but both are definitely allo and I can’t think of either displaying any romantic feelings. Also I think the awful dentist Leslie is/was seeing could be ok headcanon-wise, she certainly didn’t seem to have any actual romantic interest in Leslie? (Where are things at with her anyway?)
But uh. Now I think of it I’d personally probably prefer no representation to any of those candidates probably :/
Oooh, what about Mike? Or one of Ethan’s other hookups? (Fingerguns guy, and I think uhhh Drew?) Obviously allo, and I don’t think any of them have been in a relationship (and we know Mike never will be!)
Aaaaand I just made myself sad 🙁 It seems it is still too son 🙁
Pretty sure malayas ace, canon from shortpacked. Also if you see her slipshine she doesn’t really care about sex itself, just the perceptions around it. They like being hot, they like people thinking they’re hot, they could give a fuck whether they actually bust a nut off or not. Judging by their relationships in shortpacked id hazard a guess of, sex positive ace demi romantic?
Carla is ace and sex-repulsed, Malaya is more like gray-ace and sex-positive. Asexuality is about being attracted to people, not whether or not you enjoy physical sensation, and ace people can still enjoy sex.
Drew definitely isn’t aro, at least if his Shortpacked characterization holds. Most people who read that comic know him as “the guy who tried to kinda manipulate Ethan into coming back to him on the premise that Ethan’s new boyfriend was boring”.
(The problem was that Ethan’s new boyfriend WAS boring, so readers were pretty lukewarm on him, myself included. But boring is sometimes very nice to date lol.)
Anyway I like Malaya and I prefer them to no rep as an enby; they’re a jerk but not in a way that is like a negative stereotype of nonbinary people.
I think they would be LESS good as #aroallo rep, though, because cold asshole who just uses people for sex is…… like THE aroallo stereotype :/
WTB: someone kind and gentle, who also just so happens to know that romance isn’t for them. Ideal hookup material AND a solid friend you’d want to keep around in your life platonically!
Oooh, I didn’t know Drew existed outside his brief appearances in DoA (which I guess were cameos!) And yeah that stereotype was kind of what I was thinking of in terms of Malaya and Jason not being great rep, they’ve both done a bit of that in this world.
Like maybe Willis has other intentions for Drew. It’d be neat to see more of him because I like his design. He was kind of… an initially good boyfriend who eventually revealed himself to be toxic. Lots of disagreement at the time in the comments tho because Drew specifically gave Ethan an ultimatum over his ever expanding toy collection, and sometimes Ethan’s toy collecting diiid seem kind of compulsive or maladaptive. (He bought a toy on the way to witness the birth of a friend’s child on one memorable occasion.)
Oops forgot to actually finish my thought: MAYBE Willis had other plans but from commentary it seems like so far Drew is a one-time cameo who then turned up several more times. But I think we last saw him giving Danny a (secretly unnecessary) “it gets better” speech about being bi.
There are other reasons Sarah’s father might not pay her tuition than not being close. Liz’s father might just have more money.
Both Sarah’s parents showed up to comfort her after the abduction. I’m not saying there’s no baggage from their separation, but Sarah’s issues seem more like repeatedly betrayed by peers/friends.
Something this reminds me of, with my parents being children of divorce? My parents actually never got married. They were together for over 30 years, they raised me together, they lived in the same house and stuck together through sickness and health and finally death, but they never married. I once asked why they never just tied the knot and they said they’d known so many people who finally get married after years of being together only to divorce and they wanted to avoid that.
Also should probably explain that when I say death, I thankfully don’t mean they both died. Just my mom, and my dad is still alive but has stated he doesn’t wish to get into another relationship because he views my mom as his life and soul mate.
I’m actually myself a child of divorce, and it definitely impacted my feelings about dating until I was like, 26, even though they got divorced before I was born.
She complained about them coming in waves, rather than letting her get it all over with at once, so I assume it was both. Quite possibly in pairs, with new partners coming with.
That is a definite possibility. Speaking as a child stayed together for, I suspect one of my problems is that I don’t believe love is real, or that it can last, because the case right in front of me wasn’t.
given how many ‘horror’ stories there are about ‘entitled customers’/karens, etc and annoying teenagers/young adults still figuring themselves other out and lashing out at ppl, i guess he might as well practice now
What did jacob wanna do again, the same as his bro or something similar?
Soul-searching about what kind of person he wanted to date at least. I don’t think he said he was reconsidering careers, did he? (I’d support him if so, that’s a tough thing to do midstream.)
Thank you, oh grand emperor of DoA fanart. It’s really not my style (characters would be unrecognisable) but once I’m the idea was in my head it had to get out
Yep, that’s the point 😜 Idk what gender affirming care she’s had (specifically surgery) but she would be the one to ask which is worse since she’s (presumably) had both.
well, willis himself is some form of ex christian if joyce is meant to be autobiographical, so maybe he didntwanna mention another specific kind (or he knows enough ’bout other religions to know that /christian/ hell would b e the most insufferable for sarah)
Tho some kinda ‘afterlife’ spinoff would be fun….”Oh no, THIS is the bad place!” (spoilerish i guess?)
I haven’t seen Star Wars Minute, but I assume it has to do with Harrison Ford dropping the “I’ll see you in hell!” line and the subsequent nerd attempts to divine an entire Star Wars religious structure from it?
omg hilarious. I sort of picture Sarah’s face turning literally inside out and going YEEEEEEEE while *launching* herself away like she was at the end of some cosmic bungee.
Ok, so. She’s pre-Law, yesh? How the hell is she going to get into (a really good) law school if she’s unable to score any references? And I assure you, she could not at this time.
Hope she’s got a safety law school. HA 🤣 I just remembered a call-center job I once had. Underemployed JDs everywhere you looked.
I enjoy the contrast between the wholesome vibes of Joe & Joyce’s new relationship and the “damaged spaceship breaking apart on re-entry” vibes of Sarah interacting with her crush.
The best analogy I can think of to describe Sarah and Jacob’s relationship is there’s a bird repeatedly flying itself into a goldfish bowl head-first, and the goldfish is trying to do the same thing from inside, and together, after inflicting serious damage to themselves, they’ve to actually put some cracks in the glass.
Also, may I just note that I don’t think I’ve ever seen any author who can write both beautifully wholesome relationships (platonic and otherwise) and magnificently toxic relationships (again, including platonic ones) at the exact same time quite as well as Willis. Watching him turn on a dime in writing these two juxtaposed scenes is truly a thing to behold!
I’m going to assume that Jacob, be8ng in the room with her and looking directly at her, can see quite plainly that she is in ybe verge of tears over this conversation, no?
Like I fully understand not vibing with any of this, I can understand being frustrated with Sarah, and I can understand wanting the catharsis of seeing Jacob tell her to GTFO, but I do not really understand reading this strip especially and thinking he feels frustrated.
Maybe tomorrow’s strip will turn a corner and he’ll be irritated with her then, but right now I read too much fondness and hopefulness in the second panel and too little annoyance in the final panel for him to be giving up here, instead of encouraged by how close he came.
Her shields were down for a brief moment here. Narratively too I think we are just more likely to see him try again.
I don’t get why everyone is insisting Sarah is horrible here, while ignoring that Jacob, with all his good intentions, is both confronting and pushing her, playing good cop and bad cop at the same time on someone who he should know needs support, not a cop pressuring her. An A for intent, an F for execution.
Sarah’s spent most of her time around Jacob treating him as an object to lust over while shooting down most of his attempts at conversation and actually connecting. Moreover, they’re both students. He is not her therapist or psychiatrist and treating him like he needs to hold her hand through conversation would actually be “unfair.” They’re equals. He does not have a power disparity over her.
Good cop, bad cop is a pretty overblown way of putting this. He hasn’t threatened her, he said “Please have a conversation with me.” She said “Nah, I’m storing material for the spank bank.” Jacob rightfully replied “Oh, cool, then we’re done here,” and when Sarah reached out to try to keep him from leaving, he reoffered a conversation which Sarah once again turned down.
This entire debacle is once again Sarah’s fault. She doesn’t respect Jacob.
Slightly disagree, actually. Sarah hasn’t only ever treated Jacob as a lust object. Once upon a time, Sarah and Jacob actually talked. It was hard and awkward, but Sarah was actually able to talk to him while they shared a class together. And while she still found him very attractive, she was (mostly) able to put that aside and talk.
There’s a lot on Sarah’s mental plate right now, but I think what tipped her over the edge was Jacob outright saying he knew she had feelings for him. Sarah was already operating at maximum blood pressure due to both a resurgence of Raidah and Joe triggering every protective instinct she has, and Jacob opening up to her put her through the roof. Sarah is suffering from blown fuses and raw nerves, and has yet to recover.
Sarah is often a bit paranoid and over the top, but then I remember there is still an actual-factual secret league of Raidah actively plotting to turn everyone against her, and it currently has a 66% success rate (if you count both Lucy and Jennifer). I don’t know how I could help someone in that situation calm down.
Nah, Lucy and Sarah only tangentially interacted before Raidah told her the one-sided story about Dana and Jennifer backed it. It was only after that breakfast that Lucy felt compelled to tell Sarah she was mean and jettisoned people when they become inconvenient. I’ll put it this way: Sarah is genuinely bitter and abrasive, but Raidah set the scene, chose the lighting, the background music, the props, and the narration to paint Sarah as a real villain. Breakfast with Raidah is the difference between Lucy simply not liking Sarah, or even pitying her, and Lucy calling Sarah out like she’s something malicious Lucy has to fight.
Sarah didn’t do herself any favors in that conversation, and I think she always rubbed Lucy the wrong way — they are VERY incompatible in terms of communication and friendship style; Lucy was always going to be stung by Sarah’s acerbic… mode of being. But I don’t think Lucy would have arrived at the conclusion that Sarah’s a Bad Awful Person no one should ever be friends with without Raidah.
For, among other reasons, narrative utility. Like — why bother setting Lucy up to have lunch with Raidah if Lucy was going to come to the same point by herself?
Really? You don’t think ‘verbally tormenting her alleged sister-friend for funsies’ or popping up out of nowhere to announce ‘god your boyfriend ducks, if you had a brain you’d ditch him’ wouldn’t have earned her Lucy’s active ire? It’s ONLY Raidah’s one-conversation influence making Lucy combative with Sarah?
Conversely, this means you also think that if Sarah HADN’T been cruel for funsies multiple times in Lucy’s presence, Lucy would still think she sucks because Raidah said?
Sarah makes her own beds, imo. It’s easy to believe that she is a cold, vicious, mean person because she herself goes to considerable lengths to present exactly that.
I mean that’s not how I’d characterize any of it, to the point where we are reading different web comics entirely, so. Your strawman version of me has very weird opinions, it’s true, but it doesn’t seem worth trying to respond to them.
THAT one’s easy: So Sarah would have something to blame other than her own prickly meanness, thus delaying the inevitable reckoning with the fact that, regardless of what Radiah is doing, she’s ALSO just incredibly hard to put up with all on her own.
Okay, so, in that version of events, Raidah’s whole purpose from her very first introduction where she (verbally) attacked Sarah out of nowhere in the lunch room up until now — literally thirteen years worth of storytelling — was to be a red herring so as to delay Sarah’s character development for a surprise twist where Jacob and Joyce were always wrong for trying to see past her gruff exterior and should have been telling her to be more outwardly nice and polite to people.
I mean. That is definitely a take. Good luck with it.
I should have been clearer. I thought Sarah and Jacob’s previous interactions outweighed her treating him as lust object. I had thought most of their storyline was Sarah trying, mostly, to repress that lust because she knew that wasn’t what Jacob was interested in. I felt that her actually objectifying him was a new development.
I’d honestly say that using her friend to try and break up his earlier relationship puts her squarely into “objectifying him” for a significant amount of time.
Hard agree here. “Objectifying” isn’t always “positive” attention lavished at the object. It’s just treating them like an object, and Sarah refusing to open to more people leaves her unable to interact with him on a deep-enough level.
I mean she definitely treated him like a football in her game against Raidah, but trying to get Joyce to hook up with him is the literal opposite of incel entitlement.
It’s not the right term for her behavior here. Call her an asshole or a creep, whatever other term you want, but she’s not acting like a possessive misandrist serial killer, which is how incels actually behave.
Agreed. It’s weird to see so many commenters focusing on her just treating him as an object to lust over when even Jacob recognizes that it’s her fear of vulnerability driving this.
And he’s got far less evidence to go on than we do.
Plus also, while we know she’s been harboring fantasies for a long time, isn’t this like…… the ONLY time she’s ever made that his problem? Yet some folks are calling her worse than Joe. It’s kinda weird.
Well, there’s long been a trend considering Joe unfairly maligned, even at his worst, even as he had an actual character arc growing out of his problems, there’s been a “Joe did nothing wrong” faction.
Very true, heh. It feels like it’s had a real renaissance with this storyline, though. So many people treating Dorothy and Sarah’s mistrust like it’s inscrutable moon logic, or yet more proof that they’re just the worst friends anyone has ever had, instead of… dramatic irony in the most classic sense? Where the audience knows things they don’t.
Okay, I’m not saying no one feels that way, but I like Joe and if he were a real person I’d be proud of him.
I’m not Rachel, I’m not claiming he hasn’t changed or that his previous behavior makes him forever tainted or whatever. I’m just saying Sarah and Dorothy have no reason to believe he’s changed just yet. That we (and Joyce) know better is deliberate dramatic irony.
Also at this point I bet Joe would be the first to say no woman on campus is actually obligated to forgive him for the “Do” list. Because he’s grown and changed and recognizes how terribly dehumanizing that list was and how much it hurt someone he had already started to really care about (Joyce). Because I think he’s more than mature enough to recognize that a redemption arc is something you do for yourself, and it’s still worth doing even if the people you’ve wronged never forgive you.
Belatedly realizing this reaction might be at least a little bit my own fault for phrasing: I meant “worse than Joe ever was”, not “worse than Joe presently is”. Because THAT was the sentiment I kept seeing: “Sarah is being as bad as Old Joe” or “worse than Joe ever was”, over and over.
Okay. I haven’t seen that opinion voiced by more than like one or two people of late, though. Certainly not more commonly voiced than “Joe was never that bad”.
David Attenborough: Remarkable. This tsundere, after a dere moment of about 1.5 seconds in length, shifts fully back into tsun and will remain in that state for the next 18 months. It is unlikely she will ever find a mate.
I want to do a reply from the wasp meme “YOU TELL THEM WHO SENT YOU” but it just doesn’t work with Jacob. Maybe Joe after Sarah really tries some bullshit that even Joyce says “Sarah, what the fuck?”
I’ll be honest, I think Jacob is being kind of passive-aggressive her, in that I think he knew Sarah would react this way.
And I’m 100% ok with it, because even though it’s kind of petty, he is in no way responsible for helping Sarah be a better person. This isn’t necessarily a genuine effort (though obviously I think Jacob would pivot to that if it somehow worked) and that’s OK because it’s exactly what a genuine effort would be.
This isn’t passive aggressive. It’s direct, honest engagement. He tells her how he feels and then opens up for a conversation. If Sarah wanted to talk to him, he’s literally not hiding anything. There are no coy hints or sarcastic half-steps. They aren’t super close (obviously) so anything more would just be…aggressive.
I guess what I mean is that Jacob knows this approach isn’t going to work.
He’s laid his cards on the table and he’s made his bet. Sarah has the chips to call the bet. But here’s the thing- he *knows* she’s going to fold rather than call his bet. Other folks in the comments defending Sarah are correct in that this is not an approach that’s going to work with her. If Jacob was truly looking to get Sarah to open up, he shouldn’t have phrased it this way. He’s not really risking anything with this wager when he knows his opponent is going to fold. That’s where I’m saying it’s passive-aggressive.
But my point is that even though he knows it’s not going to work, that’s 100% OK because he’s essentially laying down terms. He means “If you want to engage with me, I’m going to require some degree of emotional honesty”.
I missed the last update, so I was surprised we didn’t immediately jump-cut.
I know it’s a comic and sometimes characters say things for the ‘lol’s or dramatic effect, but dang if Sarah just permanently burned this bridge in spectacular fashion. She’d be lucky if he even looked in her general direction.
ambivalent about how I feel about this. I almost feel pity for Sarah. And relief for Jacob. On one hand, she’s cutting off her nose to spite her face. But if she’s that defensive about being vulnerable then he’s has dodged a bullet.
I know that Jacob isn’t obliged to help Sarah out here but it kind of feels like he wants to and they need to talk about this whole thing away from other people.
Probably multiple attempts! That’s what helping people get past this kind of thing is like.
Like, yeah, if she could actually get to “I like you” that’d be great but it’s not weird that if she’s got such serious problems with vulnerability that she’d be unable to manage it in public.
Also obviously she should see a shrink or something but that’d be smarting of age.
I also will say Sarah should probably realise at this point that he likes her at least a bit.
Because of his actions and attitude.
He’s clearly trying too.
Just… do an activity where you can actually talk, Sarah. You can do it, probably maybe kinda.
Maybe soon she’ll break down crying when she sees like, a four slice toaster. “So two roommates can have breakfast together and and talk with each other and hold me and tell me everything’ll be okay and not run away and have babies with the first jerk who looks her way and.”
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“Who asks that?”
“Uh, I do. I just did.”
“VULNERABILITY IS FOR THE WEAK”
I so friggin called it.
Straight back to the Sarah we all know and… well, roll our eyes at.
At least for now. I kind of doubt this is the final development in either Sarah’s character or her relationship with Jacob.
I think he’s running out of patience with her, though.
I don’t agree. I think a lot of us have run out of patience for her, and understandably want the catharsis of seeing Jacob tell her to go screw herself and leave him alone, but I think Jacob, in-universe, would agree with the people who say it was really hard for Sarah to ask and that these strips have represented progress. Look at his face in Panel 2, then her face in Panel 3, then his face in Panel 5.
He would be well within his rights to decide this isn’t worth the effort, but do you really think he even looks frustrated with her in the last panel? Especially after how hopeful he was in Panel 4 and how close he got to a more honest response from her?
I don’t know that I see dating in their future, but at least for now I do see Jacob continuing to try to be an actual friend to her — the kind of person with whom she can let her walls down.
Again: not saying Jacob has any obligation to do that, not saying Sarah necessarily deserves it. Just saying I don’t think he’s giving up, or even discouraged.
*how hopeful he was in Panel 2, ugh
I couldn’t agree with you more. I know that I personally am getting frustrated with Sarah, but I really don’t see that reflected in Jacob. I think he wants a connection of some sort with her and isn’t done trying to find ways to make that happen.
🙂 Thank you.
Looked to me like he called her bluff. And not only did she fold, she flipped the table on the way out.
Okay? You’re certainly welcome to that interpretation.
I feel like in that last panel he looks almost impressed with how ornery she is. But yeah, not frustrated. I like your analysis .
Thanks 🙂
yeah, for some reason he does not give up yet. he does not seem too frustrated. Is he interested in dating her (or a version of her that can open up, at least) or just motivated to help her character development? i’m not even sure which of these i’d prefer.
I think he’s at least interested in being friends with her. More than that, I couldn’t say. I mean, I’m still surprised he wasn’t done with her after he last walked away in frustration — but apparently I’m forgetting a lot of interactions.
Like here, which admittedly had her fantasizing about him more privately in the strip before it; or this, a little bit more recently, where he was clearly charmed by her tsun(dere). Most relevantly, this and this and this and this.
I was distracted by the vaudevillian hijinx of Sarah going door to door in her humorously futile quest to find someone to break up Joyce and Joe, but everything from that short conversation in September is highly relevant to this conversation.
1. Jacob tells Sarah that Joyce told him she likes him. Sarah denies this, extremely unconvincingly.
2. Jacob prods Sarah about liking him a tiny bit, teasingly, and Sarah insists she not only doesn’t like him, she actually hates humanity in general! But then admits to caring a lot about Joyce, something she was previously unwilling to cop to.
3. Jacob tells Sarah he wants to be treated like a person, not a prop, and asks for honesty and openness from her. He also says that, if she can give him those things, he’d be happy to spend more time with her. (Sarah pouts and then hisses at the closed door.)
Like, all supremely relevant to this conversation. No wonder Jacob isn’t looking hugely discouraged; he already made progress with Sarah the last time they spoke (she admitted to caring about at least some people and was very transparently lying about not being into him), and this time he made even more progress.
Obligation is not the only reason for doing a thing.
it reminds me of that kelly monologue from the office “what kinda person doesn’t play any games?” (paraphrasing)
I read “who asks that?” as about the question that she was thinking of asking.
8 steps back
I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s literally backing away. While hissing.
“SSSSSincerity! My one weaknessss!”
Onto a bus.
Headed to the airport.
So she can fly as far away from vulnerability as possible.
(no, *your* metaphor got a little out of hand!)
a bird, flying out of your hand, is worth …
–Dave, … okay, this metaphor about hands and bushes isn’t going ANYWHERE safe for work
… isn’t worth the birdshit it left behind?
This comment made my night haha
the only way it could’ve gone worse if if she slammed a door on him and almost breaking his nose
https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2563 tho, it seemed to have worked for them but they had a bit more romantic tension to begin with lol
Or headbutted him in the junk and then threw up all over it.
I’m far too lazy to look up the QC episode, though.
That’s the roommate initiation rite.
(I miss old QC.)
“I’ll see you in Hell!” really works as a way to end pretty much every conversation, huh.
Not great for medical diagnoses, admittedly.
Not when it’s coming from a priest in a confessional either.
Honestly, that’s pretty much par for the course for priest-types, in my experience.
(I have been exorcised often enough that I couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve been exorcised.)
While I hope that you were being exercised for something fun, like the ability to climb walls, I have a feeling that it was probably more something due to their skewed “moral standards”. I’m sorry that it happened.
Nah, it was fun. When I was in high school, our Friday night entertainment was going downtown and hassling the street preachers who’d come in from the ungodless wastes surrounding our blue town in the Bible Belt to convert the heathens.
My favorite was, when they approach and start to put their hand out, you grab it in that two-handed clasp-shake and say, as sincerely as you can manage, “Hi, my name’s John. Have you been saved?” And then while they’re trying to recalibrate because you stole their opening line, you inform them that if they don’t accept Eris Discordia into their hearts, or possibly other parts of their anatomy, when they die they’ll go to Thud, which is just like Cary, except somehow even more boring.
(If your name is not John, you can substitute your own if you prefer. Or just use mine. It may be even more confusing for them, particularly if you’re a girl.)
So, yeah, this kind of thing got me exorcised a lot.
One time we exorcised them. We had a whole thing with candles and a big pentacle we drew on the sidewalk with a piece of bark from a planter and a chant that we just made up. They left, so I guess our gods were better than theirs.
this. whole. SUBTHREAD. has just made my night.
–Dave, thank y’all from the bottom of my alleged
Here, this is what happened in my town a few decades ago: https://monkeyfire.com/mpol/dir_zine/dir_2000/1032/t_gamut.html
I can’t find the film online any more, I’ve got a copy somewhere, maybe I’ll upload it someday if I can find it.
@VicMortimer That was an AMAZING read, thank you. Just. Absolutely legendary. The characters! The background, and world-building! The drama! The plot twists and turns! I mean, I’m sure it was very serious business for some of the people involved, but holy crud reading this feels like it’s straight out of fiction.
o hai!
*stealing “ungodless wastes”*
kthxbai
filler text to distract the spam filter; more filler text to distract the spam filter; yet more filler text to distract the spam filter
Full disclosure: I stole “ungodless” from King Luca in Nukees years ago.
My exorcism drives all the priests off the streets
And they’re like, it’s better than ours
Damn right it’s better than yours
I can’t teach you, you’re a bunch of bores
Kallisti!
What is it with Discordians that makes them the most fun people to be around while also leaving you less stable than you were before, without being able to pinpoint the exact reason? And yes, I know that’s all Nancy’s fault, but you won’t hear me admitting that, she gets miffed when she gets worshipped and that never ends well. Or worse, she takes an interest! And then you’re totall screwed.
that sounds amazing af. 😀 if you can’t convince them, at least CONFUSE THEM.
If you’re a pirate.
Now throw a toy at him, Sarah!
I’m genuinely starting to wonder what Sarah’s childhood was like to makeher THIS level of closed off.
Sad.
It doesn’t have to be childhood specific. We know Sarah’s history at IU. We’ve seen her being even slightly social backfire on her hard. Just knowing the Raidah situation I think this all tracks.
Dana described her as lonely and withdrawn, before the Raidah stuff. I expect Raidah et al turning on her wasn’t a new experience.
You know speaking of the Raidah situation I wonder if that specifically is impacting her interactions with Jacob. She knows he dated Raidah, so as far as she knows he knows Raidahs version of what happened so she’s not sure how to handle him not being hostile to her because in her experience everyone who hears Raidahs version is hostile towards her.
Good point.
We also know from Liz that as far back junior high/early high school Sarah was cold and standoffish enough that her boyfriend went to Liz for advice on her.
we haven’t yet met HER parents…
–Dave, because she’s a sophomore so that Parents’ Day wasn’t for her?
okay, got reminded way further down that the first part is not in fact true. sorry! we do know there’s a separation or divorce involved & Liz is a half-sister?
–Dave, if I read ALL the comments before commenting I’d have too many stored up by the end and they’d come out even more tangled
Or they’d not come out at all and wouldn’t duplicate things that’ve already been said.
And why do you sign your comments when your name’s already on them?
This is a little rude?
Also obviously because Dave likes doing that. Why else?
some people just ARE. It’s fashionable NOW to compare your traumas for credit, but there was actually a time when we didn’t want to relive them for vicarious thrills or to ‘win’ a contest of ‘whose life was shittier’. I know, hard to believe, isn’t it? Sarah is the way Sarah is, much the way Benedict and Beatrice are in That one Play by that Shakesperare fellah. *(I think it’s “Much Ado about Nothing”). she’s seen other people ruin their lives and doesn’t want to be one of them. She doesn’t have to be flashing a trauma sign, she might just be observant-young romance has nasty side effects, after all.
Maybe she’s just shy, or maybe she’s got a voice in her head saying “no, you don’t want to end up like Desdemona in “Othello”!!”
Or it could be that like a lot of us from that older generation, she first learned to compartmentalize her feelings so they didn’t get in the way and wreck her future. There are actual benefits to Denial and Repression, like saving a shit ton of money and not getting your other plans derailed because you caught Moonbeams in your brain and let your gonads do your thinking.
Just sayin’. she looks comical now, but when she’s rocking the six figure income while the kids who listened to their FEELINGS are trying to pay off six figure student loans with degrees that, plus a coffee machine, let you be a part time barista?
She might be the only one doing the smart thing.
These are such interesting thoughts.
Like. Not fair or good or correct, but interesting!
Hey now, don’t conflate compartimentalisation with denial and repression. Those are very different concepts. You can compartimentalize while still being sane as long as your life has parts of it where you can let those feelings out, preferably people. (Humans tend to function better if they have honest and deep social connections.)
Denial is when you refuse to notice that you have an issue, and when combined with compartimentalisation that never ends well since you then never air out those compartments and they will ferment and eventually pop in one way or another. If you’re lucky they will pop once, get everything out at once, and then you’ll be fine after a lot of re-integrating with the parts of you that were closed off before.
Repression is just an external attempt to keep such a compartment closed, which can be a short term solution, but it isn’t going to last and it will make the fermentation inside the compartment speed up like a pressure cooker.
As someone who literally never opened up until my 30s, I get the compartmentalization, I get the benefits.
Not sure I’d send anyone down that road though.
Money is nice. I enjoy mine, but it seriously messes with your head in a lot of other ways.
I don’t think any of this has anything to do with “comparing your traumas for credits”, whatever that means.
This is fiction. Fiction often – though not always as in the example you gave, digs into character’s pasts to explain their present behaviors and to help them grow. This particular fiction often does that. It seems likely that Sarah will go down that path and we’ll see some of it. Our interest in that as readers has nothing to do with the characters themselves comparing traumas for credits.
Even if Sarah’s attitude isn’t explained by a traumatic backstory (beyond what we already know with Dana), it’s pretty obvious she’s not happy with where she is emotionally, however much she might deny it. That seems a place for a growth arc, not a “No, it’s good to not be able to approach people you’re attracted to because maybe somehow you’ll make more money later.”
Blah blah blah, all you’re saying is “Okay, but maybe she’ll be isolated and rich”, as if that matters.
mmaybe it does? It’s a lot easier to survive opening up if you’re wealthy, than being open when you’re broke.
Not actually true. It’s easier to survive everything if you’re financially comfortable, but wealthy people are demonstrably lonelier and more paranoid. You start seeing everyone around you as greedy takers, and you stop being able to trust that anyone actually likes you as a person.
I feel like Jacob should know Sarah’s deal by now. He might be expecting too much.
He means well, but he kind of has a naivete that reminds me of Dorothy’s.
I see it more like he’s giving her an extra chance to do better. Alternatively it’s going, “you want even power, here, take it”, like very politely calling her on her bullshit.
His naivete is his overconfidence in his ability to do what you’re saying. He’s apparently missed that she asked him something in yesterday’s strip, and that she’s shown more than 0 percent vulnerability.
He is patient, and he is trying, but he’s just an ordinary guy, he’s not the feelings whisperer.
I think it makes him more interesting than super-hunky-guy-who-is-an-emotional-guru-perfect-in-every-way.
I’m honestly not getting “over confident” from him here. It’s totally subjective, of course, so your reading isn’t wrong, I just read it as him trying to de-escalate/figure out exactly what Sarah is trying to ask, because he doesn’t know. I think he is self-assured and has confidence in himself, but to a much healthier and realistic degree than Dorothy.
Aside from reading his tone differently, I totally agree that he is a normal (well adjusted, emotionally mature) guy doing his best. My favourite thing about DoA is that all the characters are so developmentally realistic.
not arguing, just something I thought of and wanted to add.
I don’t think he understands being introverted. https://www.dumbingofage.com/barbell/ in this strip, she’s basically set up to fail. She’s not going to be able to come up with something to talk about, and she even says that. But her job as a spotter is to watch him, so she’s going to end up staring at him unable to think of anything to say.
He could have asked her what her least favorite song was. That’s a relatively safe question to answer, but it still gets her to talk about personal things.
Jacob’s an extrovert, it feels like he thinks “just jump in the deep end and start swimming laps” should work.
Hard disagree.
Jacob is demanding that Sarah act like an adult, because if she can’t make herself vulnerable, then a relationship is doomed to failure. She HAS to be willing to take the chance.
He can hold open his arms to catch her, but if she’s not willing to take that step forward then it’s not going to be healthy.
Nah, he isn’t misunderstanding her here- he is standing his ground. He has made his terms clear and is willing to abide by them. That his terms are openness and honesty makes them no less his terms.
That’s why he is willing to repeatedly allow her the opportunity to meet his terms, but he really doesn’t seem especially put back that she isn’t able to meet them.
This ^
Yes. A+ wording. You get a trophy for saying what my brain couldn’t 🏆
+1 here too.
I have spent more time kinda defending Sarah today, but I don’t understand people trying to say JACOB is being “the real jerk” either.
Because in any conflict between characters, some have to choose one to be the villain and one the victim. No nuance is allowed.
That “no fun allowed” meme only it’s nuance
Well done, Sarah
I mean, she hasn’t bitten him. Yet.
That almost would have been a better reaction
I think there would have been two results:
He gets scared and tries to keep his distance.
He is surprised by what happened that even seems funny to him (I mean, we don’t know much about Jacob, the truth is)
“Jesus Christ, it’s like Charlie Brown and his goddamned football.”
—Martin Reid from Jeph Jacques’s QC, I’m pretty sure
That went absolutely well
Well, Sarah’s seeing him here, and it seems like she’s in hell right now, so…. yeah, that checks out.
I hate Sarah this storyline.
Indeed, she is acting like quite an asshole right now.
Yep. It’s very odd and off-putting, and I genuinely like her.
I’m surprised so many peeps have turned against Sarah for not knowing how to talk to a crush. When it comes to pure dating or socializing romantically Joyce might actually have more experience here. So why are we all mad Sarah’s bad at something she doesn’t know how to do?
Because Sarah’s version of being “bad at talking to her crush” is Yelling at them like a child. I know it’s a comic and it exaggerates but Sarah’s literally just displaying some real obnoxious behavior. Sarah’s been dismissive of Joyce and Joe and when she’s alone with Jacob she refuses to talk to him and just makes a point of staring at him like a slab of meat. Jacob is clearly uncomfortable and trying to open up and she’s just doubling down and UGH.
I dunno why I shouldn’t hate her right now. She’s acting like an incel.
When you put it like that, yeah, if the situation was reversed her behavior would probably look even less sympathetic in most people’s eyes.
Like Sarah, I also have a tendency to avoid the possibility of rejection or judgment like the Black Plague, so I can’t feel too angry at her here. But at the end of the day having unresolved issues does NOT give you the right to lash out at others as a way to cope. She should just curl into a ball and roll away at the first sign of emotional vulnerability, like me
Not saying you’re wrong to dislike her, but “incel” is a very specific type of behavior. There are female incels, absolutely, but Sarah isn’t exhibiting that specific set of toxic behavior.
There’s no “all men are evil treacherous bongoes who should be punished for not fawning over me”, there’s not even any blaming Jacob for not being into her.
Like, the ‘incel’ movement has always been violent, and it’s only getting worse (cw: rape and death threats).
Yesterday we remember the 14 shot and killed in an act of anti-woman terrorism.. We must not allow such behaviour to fester.
Natural consequences of raising generation after generation of males to believe they have some God-given right to get laid. So now they feel like their critical rite of passage has been arbitrarily denied them, and so they are incomplete or defective.
B****, please. Try being an ugly lesbian sometime.
No, but there is weird undertones of Joyce being happy with a compliment and Sarah/Dorothy going “Obviously he said that. You’re literally ANY woman and Joe would say that to anyone.” Now obviously there’s the connotation of it being JOE. But between that and Sarah refusing to talk to him while sweating over him lustfully and getting all mad when he calls her on it. I think calling it “incel behavior” isn’t a huge stretch.
I’m not saying she IS an incel. But that is behavior an incel would fall into. Debasing others for their romantic success. Staring at her crush wordlessly while he works out cuz it’s hot. Getting mad and belligerent when called out on her behavior. Blames HIM for her reactions.
Yes I know there’s incels who do violence and death threats and Sexual assault but it doesn’t mean that any behavior less than those extremes cannot be called out. She’s behaving like a turd under the implication of being “bad with people”.
Call her a jerk, an asshole, a creep — all fair game. I’m definitely not saying you have to like her or think this is acceptable behavior.
(I do disagree that she was mad at Jacob for calling her out, though; I read that as mortification and anger at herself, which then shone through when she spoke to him. Not great, but not at him. That’s just us having different opinions about the character though, and who’s to say who’s right?)
But to me, while I would agree “incel behavior” is a spectrum, I would say it has to involve some measure of entitlement and dehumanization. It’s more than just leering at someone or being creepy. There has to be a level of indignation and dehumanizing possessiveness, and the only time Sarah has ever been remotely possessive of Jacob was when she got briefly competitive with Raidah over him.
Like, the fact that she was seemingly entirely happy to let Joyce date him instead? That to me is the antithesis of incel behavior, no matter how much of an asshole she was being at the time. If that makes sense?
Anyway, if you still disagree that’s fine, I just wanted to better explain my objection to the term.
(And I had a better version of this written first but then the browser refreshed and I lost it 😭)
“I read that as mortification and anger at herself”
This is kind of what I’ve been thinking about a lot. Especially when there’s the “Raidah was right” comments. Raidah’s not the character who thinks the lowest of Sarah, neither is Lucy. Sarah talks the most shit about Sarah. She thinks she’s unloveable.
Like yeah, she is technically yelling at him, but I don’t think any of it is furious or scary-anger yelling. Would not be surprised if she went to sit in a corner to pull herself together now, or left the exercise room to find a private space to cry from the stress of this interaction.
I think part of why I feel that way IS Jacob’s reaction, and the more I reread the strip, the more sure I am that he’s not reacting the way he would if she were actually screaming at him. If that makes sense?? His reaction, which seems to be fond exasperation, tells me she’s more flustered and spun out than angry at anyone but herself.
Exactly. He explicitly says it in that last panel. He recognizes it as her issues with vulnerability, not anything really aimed at him.
Heh, he sure does! Good point.
I have heard incels compared to both drug addicts and people with “main character syndrome” (ie I can’t get into trouble doing something because I am me or I deserve all these things and being waited upon because I am me). Both have a focus on getting what they desire while treating other people as more “less than”, so maybe a bit narcissistic?
Considering people’s brains are basically still developing until their early 20s, I don’t know what Sarah’s home and social life was like before she came to college, and I don’t know if she has autism or something else that makes it harder to understand what is socially right or wrong, I don’t want to judge her too harshly yet. There is also the possibility of comedy in this, where it is over dramatized in the comic than what would have actually happened in real life. Though considering some of the videos people post nowadays of yelling randomly in public, I feel like it is becoming more possible.
Maybe I’m just reading it differently but I see all the steps Sarah took just to get here. Misanthropic, anti-social Sarah elected to seek Jacob out, initiated a sort of reconnection with him, albeit with ulterior motives. She elected to see him again here at the gym, and just essentially admitted she likes him. Jacob just wants her to blatantly ask him, ironically not willing to be vulnerable himself since he already knows she likes him. I think this is well above what’s expected of her considering the last time she actively pursued Jake she gave up immediately.
I also think the yelling is exaggerated humor but I have no ground to stand on with how people read jokes. I’m still salty Amber provoked Dina into attacking her one time just to avoid interacting with Walky.
“Ask anything I give you permission” is plenty vulnerable. And more trust than she deserves honestly.
The difference is that being vulnerable is easier for Jacob. At least we can assume that by him a way more well adjusted human than Sarah. I don’t disagree with his actions or anything. I just think he should know asking stuff like this right after Sarah had a small breakthrough is a bit too much, too soon. In workout terms Sarah just hit a personal best and Jacob wants another rep.
Being vulnerable isn’t necessarily easy for anyone. That’s why it’s called being vulnerable. I think it’s reasonable for Jacob to want Sarah to talk to him like a normal person, not through the guise of it being his responsibility to tell her how he feels cuz it’s UNFAIR. That’d just be rewarding her for her weirdly antagonistic behavior.
From his perspective Sarah recently showed up to ask him to seduce Joyce away from his friend Joe, then proceeded to try to make “spotter” a word for “ogler” as he attempted to actually talk to her. Then when she finally said more than a sentence it was to somebody else about how much his friend sucks. When he decided he had enough she starts WHINING.
I’m not disappointed in him for not realizing she’s had a breakthrough and hit her limit. I’m disappointed in him for giving her another chance at all.
Forget what she does or does not deserve. It’s what he’s willing to pay for what he deserves: honesty.
I would like to point out here that Walky’s version of not knowing how to talk to a crush involved throwing a toy at her head and some pretty silly behaviour following that too, and he’s somehow better socially adjusted than Sarah. I take both the toy-throwing and the ‘see you in hell!’ yelling as pretty run of the mill rom-com style exaggerated hijinks *shrug* It can’t be too easy for characters to get together after all.
Yes, and Ruth forced a kiss on Jennifer, and Joyce tried to aid in converting a gay guy, and Sal likely underpaid for the bike Danny gave her before riding off, and Jennifer sends mixed signals to manipulate her boyfriend into acting how she wants, and Lucy moves way to fast and confuses love with horniness. I feel like Sarah’s doing okay by the standards set so far. Why do we have such high expectations for the grouchy hermit?
I appreciate this take.
Some folks are definitely reading a level of nastiness and maliciousness into Sarah’s behavior that I just do not get. Everyone is fully entitled to draw a line in the sand and say they wouldn’t enjoy being talked to this way, but man do I not hear any actual meanness from her. Only clumsy, flustered flailing that I think Jacob is clearly not taking personally.
I think it’s easy to overlook because she puts up a strong front, but Sarah is still actively targeted by bullies. Because it’s easy to say she should calm down, open up to people, and build genuine connections, but I don’t know how I would actually help her do that when there’s genuinely a group of petty people out there plotting to turn everyone she knows against her, and they currently have a 2/3 success rate.
This is ALSO a good point.
Screaming “I’ll see you in hell!” as she flees the area is a wee bit worse than “not knowing how to talk to a crush.”
Also hilarious. 9/10, would converse again.
At least she isn’t currently doing pranks to him like dipping hair in ink to try and convey that she likes him?
What the fuck is ink?
Something Bob Ross mentions in his videos sometimes.
Cuttlefish squirt it out when they’re upset!
Something used to write before pens were made that contain the ink. It is now stored inside pens, so normally isn’t an issue unless the pen breaks or you write on yourself. Nowadays it is used if your are doing old style calligraphy, which we did one in an art class in junior high. I also used it once to give a black background to a crayon drawing in 8th grade, because the nature of the crayon drawing repels the ink (oil vs water) and everything that doesn’t have crayon on it is colored black. Works with other water based colors, but not any oil based paints. Wiki says that there are different types of ink, but I don’t know much about that. You also see it in newspapers and other printed forms of media, including home printers. The oriental brush painting kit I got as a kid included an ink stick that you would grind with water to make ink.
Because she’s bad at it in the most hostile, bongo way possible.
Sarah loosening up with Joyce has been a slow process because Joyce is so unflappably chipper, but she’s still Sarah. That’s what this storyline is about I assume — she has to actually suck up to the idea that she can’t keep living like this if she actually wants human contact, especially hot, sweaty, barrel-chested human contact.
honestly at this point idk if she can handle any kinda first date/intimacy if this is how she reacts to a conversation. like, other than being high off endorphins i can’t imagine her being able to be comfortable enough to handle a kiss, let alone actually any kinda bedroom time unless she gets like wasted first which i assume she doesn’t rly do either way
Tho, would be hilarious to end in a strip of her with “other jacob” and joyce hanging out in joes room b/c she can’t be there the rest of the time lol
It’s a total diceroll where she’s going with this but at some point she’s gotta realize she’s going to be lonely and horny forever if she doesn’t dig her heels in and be vulnerable in some way.
For some it gets easier, at least past the first date. Those are always awkward.
It’s the initial meeting/showing interest part that’s really hard. Opening up the barriers enough to let someone through.
Once they’re inside the barriers, then you can relax.
@jeff: sure but this is sarah we’re talking about, she basically had to help joyce through some legit traumatic experiences to open up/show a softer side, tho hopefully it’d be easier with jacob and nothing quite that dramatic. Or ‘dramatic’ by teens/young adult standards and not the ‘outlier’ that is joyce’s wild first year or so XD
I kinda wanna know more of Sarah’s backstory. Feels like there’s gotta be a reason for this. We’ve already met her sister who is… something else.
But it makes me wonder about the rest of her family.
Many characters have many details that should be honestly told, and obviously Sarah is no exception.
Sarah’s problems seem more like peer problems. Twice, when shit was hitting the fan, (Dana’s grief driven depressive spiral, Joyce being roofied) her idea was to call their parents. I think that’d be less likely if she felt betrayed by her own parents.
*looks back up at the arc’s title*
–Dave, *goes hmmmmm thoughtfully, as though I were a commenting refrigerator*
Yes.
He didn’t actually ask her anything… he just gave her permission to ask him something…
Because the whole point from yesterday is that she’s angry that she doesn’t know how he feels about her, because she can’t bring herself to open up even a tiny amount to show anything remotely resembling vulnerability and ask.
not all asks have a question mark. He makes a request in panel one, that’s him asking.
He’s not asking her anything. He’s allowing her to ask him what she wants to know. There is no question mark in panel one.
piss off
He is asking her to ask something. You can imply a question without asking it. Ask any professional interviewer.
Your username is extremely accurate.
“not all asks have a question mark”
“There is no question mark”
Can it, numbskull.
Idk dude, I’m still unconvinced this is pedantry. Like, being pedantic is making someone use the exact right word when a less precise one would be understood, or enforcing that no one hang their participles or something. This isn’t really enforcing a rule, it’s just being contrarian. I mean, your “prolly” correction the other day was more pedantic, and even that was more wrong than pedantic.
I think you need to take another crack through the AP style guide or the blue book before you can claim “Pedantic” here.
You may notice a certain inconsistency with Sarah here.
i’d imagine she’d still react a similar way if he was like “You know I want a relationship based on more than just physical looks sex, are you able to give me that” or whatever lol
I think the most logical interpretation to me is that she’s deeply considering asking him, and is answering herself and him and the whole situation “who asks something like that? That’s weird” with the “you’re weird” directed at both him for proposing that she ask, and the vision of herself actually asking him.
My read is that possible questions were running through her head and the “who asks something like that? That’s weird” bit was at herself about the question that had reached the top.
I see that now.
I misread the alt-text as CHRISTMAS hell, and pictured a department store where the Mariah Carey never stops.
So all of them
Pretty much. And it seems like they start earlier and earlier every year. I do have to say that working at any place that plays repetitive songs all the time is basically hell for the workers. Also, I have an urge to play summer fun music during this time of year to spite the Christmas songs all the time people. Must get it from my grandpa, as he was the one driving around late at night one time blaring classical music in a parking lot to combat the young people blasting loud modern with their car. It drives me crazy how people don’t seem to respect others’ personal space with sound and light (bright white headlights anyone?).
welcome to Christian Pride Month
make sure to wear red and green to show solidarity
there will be parades, and music celebrating a subculture
–Dave, reposting this from mah tweetses
Whoa. You’re right. Christians somehow retroactively co-opted Pride.
They’ve been pretty successful in co-opting pretty much every other major festival. (Including Saturnalia!)
[sneaks into the IT closet to unplug the Muzak and spin “Surfin’ Safari”.]
Hell is other people, so…
hell for sarah would be a low bar but i’m just imagining her in a (metaphorical) sea of couples that all look like jacob/raidah making out lol
And every Jacob giving her the chance to be with him if she could just ask.
… and Jacob torpedoes any chance with Sarah … I’m sure he’s devastated.
Pretty sure Jacob wasn’t the one doing the torpedoing here.
Yeah, I’m not sure why people are seeing him as the problem on this one. He’s being far more considerate and level headed than most people would be.
I think it’d be better if he did. I’d say good for him. No, this is him trying harder than she’s worth.
I’m not seeing any torpedoes here tbh, especially not on Jacob’s part. I don’t read Sarah as being mad at him, I read her as uncomfortable and vulnerable and afraid and self-sabotaging. And I’m pretty sure Jacob already knew she was like this and was half-expecting something along these lines. (He still has every right to feel disappointed, ticked off, and even a bit confused though I think.) Finally, from a story perspective I don’t think that all this tension and conflict and emphasis on their relationship and Sarah’s unresolved feelings is going to just fizzle out like this – whether that ends with them getting together or not, their story has not yet hit its denouement.
Indeed, today’s offer may turn out to be one of those investments that pay off later, when least expected.
Well I think that torpedoes any chance that they had as a couple. Jacob needs someone like Joyce anyway, with less underhanded tactics, like Lucy.
So question: Do you think Sarah and Jacob have any chance of developing a romantic relationship? And who do you think would make him happiest? For the latter question, assume all people are suddenly single.
I don’t think Sarah can have a romantic relationship with ANYONE.
I think that if Sarah were more sincere, I think Jacob would give her the opportunity, of course this time Joyce didn’t intervene.
Regarding the last question, if everyone were single, many have put Lucy as options and some, I think, still love that Jacob is with Joyce. It seems like the most obvious answer is Lucy. But it wouldn’t be bad if this time Sarah were given another chance and see what really happens.
Curiously, in previous strips, many also saw a possibility with Dorothy, it sounds difficult for the simple fact that beliefs are a factor that prevents it, however, they have certain things in common that an interaction is interesting to see, if a friendship, of course it is valid, but it would be fun to see some reactions and certain jealousy in some characters, I mean, now it turns out that Joyce is going to allow people to get close to Dorothy.
Joyce did intervene though. She intervened by putting Sarah in this situation in the first place. She mentioned Jacob in their room, knowing that Sarah would change her mind and come to the gym with her solely because of that, when Sarah otherwise would have not come at all. And, of course, there was the whole “bodily picking up Sarah and placing her in front of Jacob as a potential spotter” thing.
Everything after that was all Sarah, though, true enough.
I think if Sarah was able to get past her limits enough to actually open up to Jacob, I suspect they’d do pretty well. I’d also guess that’s the direction the story is heading – successfully or not. Seems the best way to get character growth for Sarah.
It seems obvious to me that she’s interested in more than just the body, even if she’s terrified of the idea of anything more.
I don’t know who can make Sarah OR Jacob happy, but I don’t think they’re personally compatible for each other 🙁 apologies to anyone who ships them; I just think they want different things.
Ehhhh. For all that Lucy and Joyce are similar characters, I dunno that I think Jacob would feel that much less objectified by Lucy’s current modus operandi. Maybe after she’s calmed down some?
After she has had sex, she will hopefully be able to rein in her obvious thirst.
Heh, fingers crossed!
At this point I genuinely hope nothing ever happens with them. Sometimes your chance passes by before you fix your own problems and I hope this ends up the case. Sarah figures out how to say she likes him just in time to see him propose to Lucy. And/or Walky.
As long as we’re being counterfactual, I think gay Jacob could actually do well with Ethan. Yes, Ethan is in a slump right now, but hanging out with Jacob could pull him out of it. When Ethan isn’t depressed/emo he’s got some depth to him.
Apparently several people have suggested Lucy. I don’t think Lucy would be right for Jacob. She doesn’t have enough depth. She’s nice enough, but I don’t think she’d hold his attention and engage his heart – just his kindness.
given the brief attraction jacob had to joyce, i’d imagine a post breakup lucy would be better to date, if she’s able to get over walky, if not just becoming a friendship and a shoulder to lean on but i imagine jacob and lucy wouldnt have as much chances to ‘cross paths’ but you never know (tho idk if it’d be in chara for her tho i’m sure it’d be gratifying for others to see her gloating about it in front of sarah lol)
I think that Joyce and Lucy are only superficially similar and the parts Jacob liked most about Joyce we haven’t really seen in Lucy. Perhaps only because she’s not the main character and hasn’t had the same horrific chances.
She has not, for example, punched out a kidnapper.
Sarah/Charlie endgame fr
I do think that Sarah and Jacob have a chance and I’d like to see it happen. It’d be a stormy relationship, but some people find that stimulating (or so I hear). I think they’d both be ready to bend a little more.
I mean I’d like to see it happen. I’m a sap and I love Sarah, I wanna see her grow. I always enjoy the ship dynamic of slowly thawing/carving away the walls around someone’s heart with love and patience. It’s no one’s responsibility to do that of course, Jacob has every right to not want that and I’d actively discourage it irl. But fuck if it isn’t nice to watch in media
God damn, Sarah is fucked up…0
You passed up on an AMA?! Even 20 Questions would be a great thing to do!!
That cuss-out felt like Mary Bradford, Mary Bradford is in the room
Be hilarious if there was somehow /more/ drama with jacob still crushing on joyce and sarah being like “you still into joyce?” or so lol
Tho i imagine she wouldn’t direct jacob’s mind toward that if shes still chasing after him even if she doesn’t approve of joe still
That kiss was very special for both of them, so it’s likely
They’re just not meant to be. She’s too afraid to come out of her shell, his hair is ridiculous, it’s a match made in hell.
I agree Sarah won’t come out of her shell, but why is Jacob’s hair ridiculous? It’s not like he dyed it green, or purple.
Blonde was definitely a bold choice Jake made…and a wrong one.
I’d be more onboard with it if it were purple.
Patient Zero Tsundere
hardly any dere tho lol
The dere is in secret, like most tsunderes
Right, that was actually kind of adorable. She 1 basically said it’s not fair for her to not know if he likes her like she likes him when she talks to him because it’d be too much of a risk for her. Then she basically panicked and left.
I like Sarah, and it’s sometimes one of those things where if someone asked me, “Do you like Sarah as a person or a character or both?”, it’d sometimes be tricky to answer.
I dunno, her flailing here is amusing to me, but also frustrating? She can be such a shit sometimes, but then come through in a big way in others. All of this feels wholly intentional, though, like I’ve never left a strip thinking I am feeling differently about Sarah than what Willis wholly intended.
Since she made her introduction in this strip, you already get the idea of the type of character she is, and the truth is that it is very rare that you dislike her, she is not my favorite, but to say that she is HORRIBLE seems a little exaggerated to me, Throughout this comic, she has been like a roller coaster, she goes up and down, but as you say, it’s complicated, but to say that she is the worst in Dumbing of Age…nope
If Willis intends me to dislike Sarah, it’s not working. She’s frustrating sometimes, and bad mistakes, she’s made a few. She’s had her share of sand kicked in her face, but she’ll make it through.
I admit sometimes her moaning feels it goes on and on and on and on, but at the end of the day at her core I think she’ll always be the champion wielding a baseball bat who has been exactly the friend Joyce needed 👑
Oh Sarah…
RN it’s pretty easy to judge Sarah for being completely unreasonable, but… that’s precisely when it’s time to put down the question of sympathy and try to apply empathy. I’ve been burned enough times to understand exactly how she feels
For once, I’m with Sarah.
Ok now Jacob is unreal in this scenario. So approach, so patience. He is overqualified for dumbing of age
Give this man a raise.
Also I don’t normally comment on the art, but I just feel like Jacob’s strip of hair is falling a bit low here. Starting to give me Homer Simpson vibes.
We almost never see him from the right side. It does look different than here: https://www.dumbingofage.com/princesscarry/
Yeah, wow, gee, how ever did Raidah manage to convince everyone that Sarah is an antisocial, misanthropic jerk who trusts no one.
Truly, this is a mystery for the ages, the phrase “Human Sandpaper” certainly wouldn’t apply to her.
Sarah is operating at about 12-grit right now.
Also pretty darn ace (somewhere in the gray ace zone), and yeah. Basically it would be neat to see someone folks can at least headcanon as aroallo, I guess, instead of aroace? Whether they explicitly claim that label for themselves or not.
And yeah, I didn’t even think of Sal or Jennifer/Billie, but they’re definitely both MORE examples where I think only wanting casual sex was more about being immature or in denial about really wanting flowers and candy and all the Date parts of dating someone long-term.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that either; that’s a real experience too! Some people really are late bloomers, some people really do have trust issues that make it hard to open up and be vulnerable enough to admit what they want… etc. I’d just like one counter example to balance it out. 😆
But also, Willis is but one human being and this is but one webcomic. 🙂 Can’t single-handedly fix all our representation problems by themself!
Cool that’s not where that reply was supposed to go. Please ignore it, since I can’t delete it.
Are there negative-grit sandpapers? Like, you rub it against a piece of wood and all you do is gouge and mutilate it…
…oh. That’d just be ‘a big rock’.
I’m thinking “cheese grater”.
i wonder if ppl will soften on her (not that jacob ‘owes’ her a chance, relationship wise versus just being friends for now) if Dana somehow came back in the pic just t obe like “you were right, itwas better for me in the long run because of what you did” lol
I think people in the comments will, but… I won’t.
I don’t think Sarah was in the wrong there, for the record. But that she handled it badly, and everything after was handled even worse, and that’s where the problems are mainly coming to.
But either way, it shouldn’t matter what the end result was. I generally take the philosophy of “The right play is the right play, regardless of the outcome” or, alternately, “If its stupid but it works, its still stupid, and you got lucky”.
The outcome of a decision can only weigh so much on the quality of the decision itself. If you make it based on flawed evidence, that can change things a bit, but sometimes like’s going to flip you off when you made every right decision, and you just have to be able to handle that.
Honestly, part of me wonders what would be better for Sarah: Dana to come back and say everything worked out great, or to find out that what happened only made things worse. Because while I don’t think Sarah was in the wrong for what she did, the way she did it was flawed, and the affirmation that it all ended for the best might reinforce all of her bad habits…
If you think it was the right decision, what do you think was wrong about the way she did it?
This is a take I don’t think I’ve seen before, so I’m curious.
A small factor is that she didn’t make sure that her home was a safe place for her. I’m not hitting her heavily for that, because its a hard thing to confirm on the down-low, but it is a legit worry to have.
The bigger factor to me is that there’s no follow-up. That Sarah doesn’t know what happened to Dana after she got pulled from college, that she doesn’t really seem to care. Its just not hard to see why people would read that she backstabbed someone going through some somewhat manageable shit to preserve her perfect studying environment, because she hasn’t gone even a bit out of her own way to see how Dana’s actually faring.
I think that’s an understandable way for other people to read Sarah, and admittedly we are well into the realm of speculation now, but it does seem like all of Dana’s friends turned on Sarah pretty fast after she got in trouble with her parents. Dana herself probably did some yelling and screaming in the heat of the moment.
Even if Sarah tried to follow up, who’s to say Dana would have taken her calls or replied to emails instead of just deleting them?
Such a good Sarah face in panel 4.
Full disclosure: I love Sarah a lot.
man this is SUCH GOOD WRITING love that stupid fucking millennial ignorable bullshit
This comment is SUCH GOOD WRITING, so thought provoking. Love that reddit ignorable bullshit
Should have asked him all the dirty questions.
should have asked about tree law.
They’d fall in love too fast. Go for something less controversial for a slow burn
I think SOMEONE has been burned quite well enough for today.
ain’t sayin who…
There’s a good chance that’s the idea that provoked the “who asks that?” line..
Girl you were THIS 🤏 close
lol wonder if he would’ve agreed to a ‘date’ if she had asked tho, considering that piece of meat line, as opposed to phrasing it in a way that’s like “let’s do something like this again sometime, but just you and me, maybe with joyce chaperoning from a distance”, so slightly less pressure. (tho i can’t imagine sarah doing a kiss after the first date or so unless she just panics and impulsively does it before running off lol)
You know, I don’t feel like I can comment on this too much, as I’m not a child of divorce, but I’m sure a big part of why Sarah has a difficult time being vulnerable (other than other experiences we know about like Dana) seems to be due to the fact that her parents are divorced/separated. They separated when Sarah was likely a toddler, since Liz has a different dad and Liz describes Sarah as being from a ‘previous relationship’. We don’t know how close Sarah could be with her stepdad, but she definitely doesn’t seem close to her bio dad since she specifically notes that Liz’s dad pays her tuition, with the implication her’s does not.
I think if Sarah were to sit down and have an emotionally vulnerable conversation with Joe, as both are kids of divorce, it’d be very good for her. Again, I can’t speak from MY experience, but both of my parents were children of divorce, especially the kind where the father in each instance went on to get married and have more kids, and had a distant relationship with their previous kids. It uh, definitely leaves a mark.
That’s an interesting possibility.
I don’t think Sarah’s really talked about the divorce, which is unfortunate
(Joyce’s situation was an opportunity, but Joyce went to Joe instead — fair, and I’m sure there were multiple reasons (like it having been a more recent event in Joe’s life, and Joyce not at the time caring as much about his opinion of her, which made him a safer outlet for feelings she didn’t necessarily feel great about harboring))
but it’s totally possible that’s a factor in how shut-down we’ve always seen her be about the possibility of relationships.
Mind, I’d like to see a character in this strip who’s only into casual sex because that’s just how they roll, rather than it being a front to hide their fear of intimacy (Joe, potentially Sarah), or any other extenuating circumstances (I feel like it’s very hard to separate Roz’s attitude towards sex from her backlash towards Robin, and Malaya… well, who knows what’s going on with them, but they definitely went after Joe to be an asshole rather than because they’re into casual sex).
Like, as long as you are upfront about things, there’s nothing wrong with not being interested in a relationship, and it doesn’t require a Freudian Excuse. :|a
All the Drama aside, it’d be hilarious for Sarah to get drunk and finally have expressive feelings and wakes up to have it hit her she and Joe had the most meaningful emotional conversation she’s had in years. And also they banged. Like a lot.
Pff. As long as neither of them are upset about the sex, I wouldn’t mind seeing that.
(Sarah can be upset about the emotional intimacy, though. Reminds me of an old French language joke about two Frenchmen who get drunk together and work their way all the way down to the most intimate version of the word “you”, then are so embarrassed in the morning that they never refer to each other by pronouns ever again.)
Yeah to be clear, this isn’t some blackout smash cut, just morning regret. More the smash cut of “I don’t even want to talk to you… I can’t believe I just had a sexy feelings Jam what the hell.” Though for the drama “oh. Oh Joyce exists. Any chance she slept with Dorothy last night and can’t possibly be mad about this? Nope. Nope she’s just asleep in the hall. Oh shit.
Ye no worries, just had to be extra clear for my own piece of mind. I was 99% sure you meant Normal Drama wrt accidental infidelity between unlikely parties, not like… trauma orz
Thank you for the thoughtful addition Li! I also really like the last bit you said. As an asexual person, I’m kinda the reverse where when I’m interested in a relationship I don’t want the sexual part, but I’m 100% for the reverse as well. Like you said, as long as people are being honest then there doesn’t have to be a reason why someone might not want the relationship baggage that comes with relationships/sexual encounters. Honestly, relationship baggage is why I’ve been single for a decade. Being single is a worthy choice, as is wanting to be in a relationship, as is casual sex. Different people need different things!
As for characters who are into casual sex… it seems like that was how Sal rolled, with Danny being her first foray into a relationship, and Jennifer/Billie was the same way, where Ruth was the first time she actually went out on a date. Unfortunately, the examples I can think of uh… inevitable end up in relationships so I’ll get back to you if I think up more possibilities.
Also pretty darn ace (somewhere in the gray ace zone), and yeah. Basically it would be neat to see someone folks can at least headcanon as aroallo, I guess, instead of aroace? Whether they explicitly claim that label for themselves or not.
And yeah, I didn’t even think of Sal or Jennifer/Billie, but they’re definitely both MORE examples where I think only wanting casual sex was more about being immature or in denial about really wanting flowers and candy and all the Date parts of dating someone long-term.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that either; that’s a real experience too! Some people really are late bloomers, some people really do have trust issues that make it hard to open up and be vulnerable enough to admit what they want… etc. I’d just like one counter example to balance it out. 😆
But also, Willis is but one human being and this is but one webcomic. 🙂 Can’t single-handedly fix all our representation problems by themself!
Ace-five!!
Aw yeah!
I think the 2 best headcanon candidates I can think of rn are Malaya and Jason. Both have their own drama but both are definitely allo and I can’t think of either displaying any romantic feelings. Also I think the awful dentist Leslie is/was seeing could be ok headcanon-wise, she certainly didn’t seem to have any actual romantic interest in Leslie? (Where are things at with her anyway?)
But uh. Now I think of it I’d personally probably prefer no representation to any of those candidates probably :/
Oooh, what about Mike? Or one of Ethan’s other hookups? (Fingerguns guy, and I think uhhh Drew?) Obviously allo, and I don’t think any of them have been in a relationship (and we know Mike never will be!)
Aaaaand I just made myself sad 🙁 It seems it is still too son 🙁
Pretty sure malayas ace, canon from shortpacked. Also if you see her slipshine she doesn’t really care about sex itself, just the perceptions around it. They like being hot, they like people thinking they’re hot, they could give a fuck whether they actually bust a nut off or not. Judging by their relationships in shortpacked id hazard a guess of, sex positive ace demi romantic?
Oooh extended Walkyverse canon! I only read DoA, couldn’t get into the other ones and slipshine’s not really my thing. Good to know!
I have to go back and check now. I thought Ultra Car was ace and Malaya was allo.
Carla is ace and sex-repulsed, Malaya is more like gray-ace and sex-positive. Asexuality is about being attracted to people, not whether or not you enjoy physical sensation, and ace people can still enjoy sex.
Ethan himself, once he’d had sex with Mike and started rolling, would be the obvious candidate for lots of casual sex.
Obviously, trauma intervened and he’s not doing that anymore.
Drew definitely isn’t aro, at least if his Shortpacked characterization holds. Most people who read that comic know him as “the guy who tried to kinda manipulate Ethan into coming back to him on the premise that Ethan’s new boyfriend was boring”.
(The problem was that Ethan’s new boyfriend WAS boring, so readers were pretty lukewarm on him, myself included. But boring is sometimes very nice to date lol.)
Anyway I like Malaya and I prefer them to no rep as an enby; they’re a jerk but not in a way that is like a negative stereotype of nonbinary people.
I think they would be LESS good as #aroallo rep, though, because cold asshole who just uses people for sex is…… like THE aroallo stereotype :/
WTB: someone kind and gentle, who also just so happens to know that romance isn’t for them. Ideal hookup material AND a solid friend you’d want to keep around in your life platonically!
Oooh, I didn’t know Drew existed outside his brief appearances in DoA (which I guess were cameos!) And yeah that stereotype was kind of what I was thinking of in terms of Malaya and Jason not being great rep, they’ve both done a bit of that in this world.
❤️
Like maybe Willis has other intentions for Drew. It’d be neat to see more of him because I like his design. He was kind of… an initially good boyfriend who eventually revealed himself to be toxic. Lots of disagreement at the time in the comments tho because Drew specifically gave Ethan an ultimatum over his ever expanding toy collection, and sometimes Ethan’s toy collecting diiid seem kind of compulsive or maladaptive. (He bought a toy on the way to witness the birth of a friend’s child on one memorable occasion.)
Oops forgot to actually finish my thought: MAYBE Willis had other plans but from commentary it seems like so far Drew is a one-time cameo who then turned up several more times. But I think we last saw him giving Danny a (secretly unnecessary) “it gets better” speech about being bi.
There are other reasons Sarah’s father might not pay her tuition than not being close. Liz’s father might just have more money.
Both Sarah’s parents showed up to comfort her after the abduction. I’m not saying there’s no baggage from their separation, but Sarah’s issues seem more like repeatedly betrayed by peers/friends.
Much like Joyce, I too desire to know the Sarah lore.
I mean you don’t need to have a terrible relationship with your parents to have been Impacted by their divorce, especially wrt relationships.
Something this reminds me of, with my parents being children of divorce? My parents actually never got married. They were together for over 30 years, they raised me together, they lived in the same house and stuck together through sickness and health and finally death, but they never married. I once asked why they never just tied the knot and they said they’d known so many people who finally get married after years of being together only to divorce and they wanted to avoid that.
Also should probably explain that when I say death, I thankfully don’t mean they both died. Just my mom, and my dad is still alive but has stated he doesn’t wish to get into another relationship because he views my mom as his life and soul mate.
Sympathy via light physical contact?
I’m actually myself a child of divorce, and it definitely impacted my feelings about dating until I was like, 26, even though they got divorced before I was born.
Also do we know those were her bio parents? Could’ve been her biodad and his new wife, for example.
She complained about them coming in waves, rather than letting her get it all over with at once, so I assume it was both. Quite possibly in pairs, with new partners coming with.
Gotcha. So we didn’t actually see them? It happened off panel? That explains why this wasn’t ringing any bells.
It also means we definitely don’t know how she actually feels about them, since she was talking in very limited terms.
That is a definite possibility. Speaking as a child stayed together for, I suspect one of my problems is that I don’t believe love is real, or that it can last, because the case right in front of me wasn’t.
oh noo.
Jacob, you are too good and too pure for this world, gentle cinnamon roll
The Anti-Mike.
Jacob really has the patience of a saint.
given how many ‘horror’ stories there are about ‘entitled customers’/karens, etc and annoying teenagers/young adults still figuring themselves other out and lashing out at ppl, i guess he might as well practice now
What did jacob wanna do again, the same as his bro or something similar?
I think he wanted to be a lawyer to live up to family legacy but when things fell through with Raidah he decided to do some soul searching.
Soul-searching about what kind of person he wanted to date at least. I don’t think he said he was reconsidering careers, did he? (I’d support him if so, that’s a tough thing to do midstream.)
He is patient and gentle, but he could also be thinking “might as well go for the adrenalin rush and see what happens”.
I made a fan comic attempt! I saw this meme and Carla popped into my head https://imgur.com/gallery/OlktyQN
Cute art style! Really love that angry Carla face behind them.
Thank you, oh grand emperor of DoA fanart. It’s really not my style (characters would be unrecognisable) but once I’m the idea was in my head it had to get out
At first, I thought the Angry One was Dorothy. HAHA
Cute (tho i hear you can still get ‘boob’ sweat as a trans girl since hrt gives you boobs XD)
I thought that was the point. That they can experience both.
Yep, that’s the point 😜 Idk what gender affirming care she’s had (specifically surgery) but she would be the one to ask which is worse since she’s (presumably) had both.
omg SO. CUTE. ❤️
I lub it <3
Hahahaha love this
That meme really does have incredibly palpable Carla energy though
Well, thanks for showing up Jacob. See you in X amount of months because you don’t produce the pointless drama this story needs to thrive
Why does the alt text specify Christian hell? Isn’t Jacob some denomination of Christian? What other hell would be implicated here?
I think it was just for extra emphasis.
Tho now I’m imagining that old Tumblr sneme (snail meme).
Chell (christian hell)
well, willis himself is some form of ex christian if joyce is meant to be autobiographical, so maybe he didntwanna mention another specific kind (or he knows enough ’bout other religions to know that /christian/ hell would b e the most insufferable for sarah)
Tho some kinda ‘afterlife’ spinoff would be fun….”Oh no, THIS is the bad place!” (spoilerish i guess?)
Seconded on a post-death dimension to the Walkyverse.
It’s a Star Wars Minute reference, sorry
I haven’t seen Star Wars Minute, but I assume it has to do with Harrison Ford dropping the “I’ll see you in hell!” line and the subsequent nerd attempts to divine an entire Star Wars religious structure from it?
The correct quote catalyst, but more having to do with it being funny that Hell, a Christian concept, exists in Star Wars.
(Uncle Lars also says hell in ANH but it’s used less “it’s a place”-y)
Oh right, he says “there’ll be hell to pay” if Luke doesn’t have R2 and 3P0 working by midday.
if you want to try to love someone, be honest with them that you are setting them free
if they fly away at supersonic speed while screeching demonically, well…
–Dave, DAMN the torpedoing, full ship ahead!
omg hilarious. I sort of picture Sarah’s face turning literally inside out and going YEEEEEEEE while *launching* herself away like she was at the end of some cosmic bungee.
Ok, so. She’s pre-Law, yesh? How the hell is she going to get into (a really good) law school if she’s unable to score any references? And I assure you, she could not at this time.
Hope she’s got a safety law school. HA 🤣 I just remembered a call-center job I once had. Underemployed JDs everywhere you looked.
Sarah what the fuck.
I enjoy the contrast between the wholesome vibes of Joe & Joyce’s new relationship and the “damaged spaceship breaking apart on re-entry” vibes of Sarah interacting with her crush.
The best analogy I can think of to describe Sarah and Jacob’s relationship is there’s a bird repeatedly flying itself into a goldfish bowl head-first, and the goldfish is trying to do the same thing from inside, and together, after inflicting serious damage to themselves, they’ve to actually put some cracks in the glass.
Also, may I just note that I don’t think I’ve ever seen any author who can write both beautifully wholesome relationships (platonic and otherwise) and magnificently toxic relationships (again, including platonic ones) at the exact same time quite as well as Willis. Watching him turn on a dime in writing these two juxtaposed scenes is truly a thing to behold!
Sarah’s off to write her manifesto. Great job, Jacob.
I’m going to assume that Jacob, be8ng in the room with her and looking directly at her, can see quite plainly that she is in ybe verge of tears over this conversation, no?
+1
Like I fully understand not vibing with any of this, I can understand being frustrated with Sarah, and I can understand wanting the catharsis of seeing Jacob tell her to GTFO, but I do not really understand reading this strip especially and thinking he feels frustrated.
Maybe tomorrow’s strip will turn a corner and he’ll be irritated with her then, but right now I read too much fondness and hopefulness in the second panel and too little annoyance in the final panel for him to be giving up here, instead of encouraged by how close he came.
Her shields were down for a brief moment here. Narratively too I think we are just more likely to see him try again.
I don’t get why everyone is insisting Sarah is horrible here, while ignoring that Jacob, with all his good intentions, is both confronting and pushing her, playing good cop and bad cop at the same time on someone who he should know needs support, not a cop pressuring her. An A for intent, an F for execution.
Sarah’s spent most of her time around Jacob treating him as an object to lust over while shooting down most of his attempts at conversation and actually connecting. Moreover, they’re both students. He is not her therapist or psychiatrist and treating him like he needs to hold her hand through conversation would actually be “unfair.” They’re equals. He does not have a power disparity over her.
Good cop, bad cop is a pretty overblown way of putting this. He hasn’t threatened her, he said “Please have a conversation with me.” She said “Nah, I’m storing material for the spank bank.” Jacob rightfully replied “Oh, cool, then we’re done here,” and when Sarah reached out to try to keep him from leaving, he reoffered a conversation which Sarah once again turned down.
This entire debacle is once again Sarah’s fault. She doesn’t respect Jacob.
Yotomoe is right, there’s a distinct flavor of entitlement in Sarah’s behavior around Jacob that stinks of incels.
Slightly disagree, actually. Sarah hasn’t only ever treated Jacob as a lust object. Once upon a time, Sarah and Jacob actually talked. It was hard and awkward, but Sarah was actually able to talk to him while they shared a class together. And while she still found him very attractive, she was (mostly) able to put that aside and talk.
There’s a lot on Sarah’s mental plate right now, but I think what tipped her over the edge was Jacob outright saying he knew she had feelings for him. Sarah was already operating at maximum blood pressure due to both a resurgence of Raidah and Joe triggering every protective instinct she has, and Jacob opening up to her put her through the roof. Sarah is suffering from blown fuses and raw nerves, and has yet to recover.
Sarah is often a bit paranoid and over the top, but then I remember there is still an actual-factual secret league of Raidah actively plotting to turn everyone against her, and it currently has a 66% success rate (if you count both Lucy and Jennifer). I don’t know how I could help someone in that situation calm down.
I’m gonna take a point of order here, and say that “Sarah” turned Lucy against Sarah, not the “secret league of Radiah” plotting.
Nah, Lucy and Sarah only tangentially interacted before Raidah told her the one-sided story about Dana and Jennifer backed it. It was only after that breakfast that Lucy felt compelled to tell Sarah she was mean and jettisoned people when they become inconvenient. I’ll put it this way: Sarah is genuinely bitter and abrasive, but Raidah set the scene, chose the lighting, the background music, the props, and the narration to paint Sarah as a real villain. Breakfast with Raidah is the difference between Lucy simply not liking Sarah, or even pitying her, and Lucy calling Sarah out like she’s something malicious Lucy has to fight.
This.
Sarah didn’t do herself any favors in that conversation, and I think she always rubbed Lucy the wrong way — they are VERY incompatible in terms of communication and friendship style; Lucy was always going to be stung by Sarah’s acerbic… mode of being. But I don’t think Lucy would have arrived at the conclusion that Sarah’s a Bad Awful Person no one should ever be friends with without Raidah.
For, among other reasons, narrative utility. Like — why bother setting Lucy up to have lunch with Raidah if Lucy was going to come to the same point by herself?
Really? You don’t think ‘verbally tormenting her alleged sister-friend for funsies’ or popping up out of nowhere to announce ‘god your boyfriend ducks, if you had a brain you’d ditch him’ wouldn’t have earned her Lucy’s active ire? It’s ONLY Raidah’s one-conversation influence making Lucy combative with Sarah?
Conversely, this means you also think that if Sarah HADN’T been cruel for funsies multiple times in Lucy’s presence, Lucy would still think she sucks because Raidah said?
Sarah makes her own beds, imo. It’s easy to believe that she is a cold, vicious, mean person because she herself goes to considerable lengths to present exactly that.
I mean that’s not how I’d characterize any of it, to the point where we are reading different web comics entirely, so. Your strawman version of me has very weird opinions, it’s true, but it doesn’t seem worth trying to respond to them.
THAT one’s easy: So Sarah would have something to blame other than her own prickly meanness, thus delaying the inevitable reckoning with the fact that, regardless of what Radiah is doing, she’s ALSO just incredibly hard to put up with all on her own.
Okay, so, in that version of events, Raidah’s whole purpose from her very first introduction where she (verbally) attacked Sarah out of nowhere in the lunch room up until now — literally thirteen years worth of storytelling — was to be a red herring so as to delay Sarah’s character development for a surprise twist where Jacob and Joyce were always wrong for trying to see past her gruff exterior and should have been telling her to be more outwardly nice and polite to people.
I mean. That is definitely a take. Good luck with it.
*when they should have just refused to talk to her until she learned to be more outwardly polite and nice
(Encouraging Sarah to at least develop the skill of catching flies with honey instead of vinegar would only be to the good, hah.)
And like, that would be a REALLY long game for Willis to have played with their readers. On some level I’d be impressed.
I said “most”.
I should have been clearer. I thought Sarah and Jacob’s previous interactions outweighed her treating him as lust object. I had thought most of their storyline was Sarah trying, mostly, to repress that lust because she knew that wasn’t what Jacob was interested in. I felt that her actually objectifying him was a new development.
I’d honestly say that using her friend to try and break up his earlier relationship puts her squarely into “objectifying him” for a significant amount of time.
Hard agree here. “Objectifying” isn’t always “positive” attention lavished at the object. It’s just treating them like an object, and Sarah refusing to open to more people leaves her unable to interact with him on a deep-enough level.
I mean she definitely treated him like a football in her game against Raidah, but trying to get Joyce to hook up with him is the literal opposite of incel entitlement.
It’s not the right term for her behavior here. Call her an asshole or a creep, whatever other term you want, but she’s not acting like a possessive misandrist serial killer, which is how incels actually behave.
So like I was saying, entitlement to have Jacob without any reciprocation on her side: Reeks of incel shit.
Ooookay. Sure.
Agreed. It’s weird to see so many commenters focusing on her just treating him as an object to lust over when even Jacob recognizes that it’s her fear of vulnerability driving this.
And he’s got far less evidence to go on than we do.
Plus also, while we know she’s been harboring fantasies for a long time, isn’t this like…… the ONLY time she’s ever made that his problem? Yet some folks are calling her worse than Joe. It’s kinda weird.
Well, there’s long been a trend considering Joe unfairly maligned, even at his worst, even as he had an actual character arc growing out of his problems, there’s been a “Joe did nothing wrong” faction.
Very true, heh. It feels like it’s had a real renaissance with this storyline, though. So many people treating Dorothy and Sarah’s mistrust like it’s inscrutable moon logic, or yet more proof that they’re just the worst friends anyone has ever had, instead of… dramatic irony in the most classic sense? Where the audience knows things they don’t.
It’s less that and more that even though Joe has had growth some on here still feel he’s guilty/bad and always will be
It seems like there’s no redemption for Joe
Pfft. Pfffffft.
Okay, I’m not saying no one feels that way, but I like Joe and if he were a real person I’d be proud of him.
I’m not Rachel, I’m not claiming he hasn’t changed or that his previous behavior makes him forever tainted or whatever. I’m just saying Sarah and Dorothy have no reason to believe he’s changed just yet. That we (and Joyce) know better is deliberate dramatic irony.
Also at this point I bet Joe would be the first to say no woman on campus is actually obligated to forgive him for the “Do” list. Because he’s grown and changed and recognizes how terribly dehumanizing that list was and how much it hurt someone he had already started to really care about (Joyce). Because I think he’s more than mature enough to recognize that a redemption arc is something you do for yourself, and it’s still worth doing even if the people you’ve wronged never forgive you.
Belatedly realizing this reaction might be at least a little bit my own fault for phrasing: I meant “worse than Joe ever was”, not “worse than Joe presently is”. Because THAT was the sentiment I kept seeing: “Sarah is being as bad as Old Joe” or “worse than Joe ever was”, over and over.
I was referring more to the people on this board
Okay. I haven’t seen that opinion voiced by more than like one or two people of late, though. Certainly not more commonly voiced than “Joe was never that bad”.
Agreed
David Attenborough: Remarkable. This tsundere, after a dere moment of about 1.5 seconds in length, shifts fully back into tsun and will remain in that state for the next 18 months. It is unlikely she will ever find a mate.
Not to be spammy, but let the record show that I enjoyed this comment
I want to do a reply from the wasp meme “YOU TELL THEM WHO SENT YOU” but it just doesn’t work with Jacob. Maybe Joe after Sarah really tries some bullshit that even Joyce says “Sarah, what the fuck?”
I’ll be honest, I think Jacob is being kind of passive-aggressive her, in that I think he knew Sarah would react this way.
And I’m 100% ok with it, because even though it’s kind of petty, he is in no way responsible for helping Sarah be a better person. This isn’t necessarily a genuine effort (though obviously I think Jacob would pivot to that if it somehow worked) and that’s OK because it’s exactly what a genuine effort would be.
This isn’t passive aggressive. It’s direct, honest engagement. He tells her how he feels and then opens up for a conversation. If Sarah wanted to talk to him, he’s literally not hiding anything. There are no coy hints or sarcastic half-steps. They aren’t super close (obviously) so anything more would just be…aggressive.
I guess what I mean is that Jacob knows this approach isn’t going to work.
He’s laid his cards on the table and he’s made his bet. Sarah has the chips to call the bet. But here’s the thing- he *knows* she’s going to fold rather than call his bet. Other folks in the comments defending Sarah are correct in that this is not an approach that’s going to work with her. If Jacob was truly looking to get Sarah to open up, he shouldn’t have phrased it this way. He’s not really risking anything with this wager when he knows his opponent is going to fold. That’s where I’m saying it’s passive-aggressive.
But my point is that even though he knows it’s not going to work, that’s 100% OK because he’s essentially laying down terms. He means “If you want to engage with me, I’m going to require some degree of emotional honesty”.
Does he know it’s not going to work? I think he looks too genuinely hopeful in Panel 2 for someone who knew it wasn’t going to work.
Oh well, time for Dorothy to scoop in and date Jacob now.
*swoop. It’s been a hell of a Wednesday.
Since Sarah’s apparently in hell at all times, is this just “I’ll see you around”?
I’m sorry I love Jacobs hair and everything but
In the first two panels he looks like he’s wearing a toupee XD
I missed the last update, so I was surprised we didn’t immediately jump-cut.
I know it’s a comic and sometimes characters say things for the ‘lol’s or dramatic effect, but dang if Sarah just permanently burned this bridge in spectacular fashion. She’d be lucky if he even looked in her general direction.
Sarah, go to therapy!!
yep
I feel really sad for Sarah. What a tormented soul.
i know. i was rooting for her but she’s, well, not doing herself any favors
ambivalent about how I feel about this. I almost feel pity for Sarah. And relief for Jacob. On one hand, she’s cutting off her nose to spite her face. But if she’s that defensive about being vulnerable then he’s has dodged a bullet.
Jacob’s patience is truly admirable.
Poor Sarah. She’s wound up tighter than even Joyce before she stopped clinging to faith.
I feel extremely seen. Stop seeing me. That’s something a weird person would do.
MEEEEEE !!!! i dont know how i got married its kind of a miracle lol
Sarah are you all there this morning? You seem to be be coming down with flanderization.
I agree, this writing lately feels weirdly one-dimensional for Sarah. 🙁
I know that Jacob isn’t obliged to help Sarah out here but it kind of feels like he wants to and they need to talk about this whole thing away from other people.
Probably multiple attempts! That’s what helping people get past this kind of thing is like.
Like, yeah, if she could actually get to “I like you” that’d be great but it’s not weird that if she’s got such serious problems with vulnerability that she’d be unable to manage it in public.
Also obviously she should see a shrink or something but that’d be smarting of age.
I also will say Sarah should probably realise at this point that he likes her at least a bit.
Because of his actions and attitude.
He’s clearly trying too.
Just… do an activity where you can actually talk, Sarah. You can do it, probably maybe kinda.
+10
big Eleanor Shellstrop vibes on this one
Maybe soon she’ll break down crying when she sees like, a four slice toaster. “So two roommates can have breakfast together and and talk with each other and hold me and tell me everything’ll be okay and not run away and have babies with the first jerk who looks her way and.”
she’s gonna carry that weight
Yeah, that’s about as well as emotional growth goes for Sarah.