I don’t see why anyone (other than homophobes, but I don’t think that’s your deal) would be offended by that… could you elaborate? Mike doesn’t need evidence to say this because he’s Mike. He’s using Lincoln as an example to get Ethan to stay in the closet. It doesn’t have to be an accurate example.
We know a lot about Shakespeare compared to most of his contemporaries. The Shakespeare wasn’t Shakespeareeee people are the grassy knoll folks of English literature. Most of the evidence ofLincoln being gay is, at best, ambiguous; there are better candidates for closeted presidents.
Lincoln could have been gay, or he may have just been stuck with a batshit crazy wife and just not have been that into her. Between that and a Civil War, I can see him not being Mr. Romance.
I don’t understand why people are so resistant nowadays to the idea Lincoln was gay. When I was growing up, it was just taken for granted by those who look into such things; suddenly, in 2005 I think, a book brought it into the mainstream, and there was this enormous backlash.
I don’t think that was ever assumed outside of people who really wanted it to be true. Most Lincoln biographers scoff at the idea with good reason; much of the supporting evidence for him being gay comes from modern, out of context misinterpretation of 19th century social mores.
I’d put more stock into Buchanan than Lincoln, considering that there was LOT more contemporary speculation about him and William King and a bit more of a cover-up of the nature of their relationship, unlike Lincoln and his close friends.
In an era where such practices were commonplace while traveling. There’s plenty of evidence that certain historical figures were not heterosexuals as usually assumed. But Lincoln really is a case of “it’s about as likely as Knockout and Breakdown. People want him to be, they see the strong bond, and so they jump to the conclusion that he must be and here’s the evidence.”
Not to deny the possibility. But the argument for him being gay is just… Dumb. Unless some new evidence has popped up I haven’t heard about yet, in which case sorry for being misinformed.
It’s more that the practice seemed specific to the one guy, not all his bodyguards, suggesting there might be “alternate” reasons for him doing it. Not a “slam dunk” as you put it, but certainly something to speculate on.
And speculate away. I’m cool with people offering it as potential evidence. I’m just iffy on how some people like to jump on these things and declare it as proof rather than evidence, or fact rather than speculation. And have a hard time seeing it as solid evidence on its own, just potential evidence.
He also shared a bed with several other men at different times of his life, and he was always quite open about it. This was no unusual at the time. It’s probably worth noting that in a time of America’s worst partisan strife, no one accused him of homosexuality, despite said sleeping arrangements.
Here’s some idle speculation:
Let’s say you’re Lincoln, and you’re traveling with, say, 10 bodyguards. You stay at places with a limited number of rooms/beds, forcing some double-ups. Repeatedly sleeping in a bed with the same one could mean:
1) You’re having gay sex with him;
2) He’s the one who snores the least, and you get the best night’s sleep with him in your bed.
There’s a “Lincoln was gay” movement. I haven’t paid much attention to it, beyond “He had a really close male friend.” I think the “Shakespear was gay” movement has a stronger case.
Sadly, “Buchanan was gay” has a much stronger case. So instead of Lincoln, us queers get they guy who is pretty much universally considered the worst president in the history of the country.
On a mostly unrelated note, the case for Shakespeare being bi is pretty good as well.
Buchanan was certainly accused of being gay during his time in office, but if he was he was also certainly interested in women as well. As for being the worst, this is a country with Polk, Grant, Harding and George W. Bush (A direct descendant of Polk on his mother’s side) on its list of former chief executives.
As Zap said he let the union collapse which led too the most bloodiest conflicts in US History. Yeah iam going to say Epic Fail is a understatement here. Polk tenure saw the opening of the smithsoian and despite stealing land away from Mexico he is till.looked upon favorably I am not condoing his actions and in hinsight they were wrong but he is still considered a popular president Harding as bad as he was yeah he was bad never finished his term and hs succesor was re-elected Grant despite crouption was re-elected and bush… He didnt let the union ccollapse Buchanan will probably remain the worst for awile
You can’t really blame the collapse of a country on one guy. There wasn’t really much he could do to stop it, given the hate that was rolling around, and the fact that both sides really, really, really believed in their arguments. If you do your homework, you’ll see that both sides also had very good reasons for acting as they did. The problem with the Civil War is that like most wars, its not as black and white as you’d like to make it. It’s two good guys fighting, not a good guy and a bad guy. Sure, if it was just buchanan vs. all the idiots, you could blame him. but it doesn’t work that way when both sides have very very strong reasons for doing what they do. That Civil War ball got rolling way back when they were framing our constitution and trying to figure out 3/5 of people. It was inevitable, unless MANY people made different decisions over time. If MANY people had chosen differently, it could have been different. Buchanan? Ha! By himself. Nah.
@PetrePan: Actually… As I recall, in between the time where Lincoln was elected and before he took office, some of the states were already seceding or preparing to and Buchanan just… let them.
He wasn’t solely responsible, but he really didn’t try to stop them at the end. That said, not an expert on this, so feel free to correct me.
Remember you can 100% claim J. Edgar Hoover… … yeah.
Don’t feel too bad though, George Bush is most likely hetero, so you’re at least not stuck with him.
There’s circumstantial evidence which says he was, but I tend to think he wasn’t. There’s much more concrete evidence that Buchanan was gay. Though the general consensus is that we’re about as happy to claim Buchanan as we are to claim J. Edgar Hoover.
Considering how much effort Lincoln put into courting Mary Todd I seriously doubt he was gay. It’s not like she was rich or that big of a prize. Now his predecessor James Buchanan was likely gay since he never married and was reputed to be more than friends with a senator he shared a house with. However, he is also our worst president and typically if a group is going to claim someone as their own they want a winner.
Also Buchanan was also known to skinny dip in the Potomac. Not sure if that has to do with anything just an interesting fact about the President who let the Union fall apart, also Mary Todd use to hold séances in the white house though I think that is common knowledge.
Lion Heart may have fathered a child, but he was pretty unambiguously into duds almost exclusively. He may well have been in the “Close your eyes and think of England” camp when it came to the ladies.
Whether or not Lincoln was gay is a matter of debate. Neither argument really has much evidence to go off of, as far as I’ve read or been able to find. Lincoln, of course, went through the motions of being straight. He had a wife, children, etc. But we also have to remember that this was a time when being gay was a crime. A crime you could go to jail for. People tried to hide it as best they could.
That being said, most of the evidence used to make the claim that Lincoln was gay is circumstantial at best, and can be explained pretty simply.
That said, I’m not a Lincoln scholar. I honestly don’t even like the guy much. He was kind of an asshole, who for some reason gets credit for “freeing the slaves.”
He might have been gay, he may not have been. But either way, these characters are young and in college. No reason they would acknowledge the complexities of this historical oddity.
I find it interesting that Lincoln has to be proved to be gay – that straight is the 100% default unless proven otherwise. Let’s face it, I doubt that married (with children) Republicans coming out of the closet is unique to the 21st century.
its as much a matter of circumstance than anything else. if lincoln spent his whole life starting wars at the gay bar then the burden of proof would be on showing hes straight, but since he was married with what should have been a bunch of kids (lots of death) you gotta prove he was gay
It offends me that the writer called Lincoln gay. Is it just because he was against slavery, Mr. Willis? Not all anti-slave supporters are gay. You are behind the times, sir.
” For Reuben and Charles have married two girls,
But Billy has married a boy.
The girls he had tried on every side,
But none he could get to agree;
All was in vain, he went home again,
And since that he’s married to Natty.” ~ Abe Lincoln
If i didn’t do it someone else would have! and then you would have had to shoot someone else out a piece of artillery who probably didn’t deserve so ha!
1) There are two directors.
2) Neither director is gay.
3) At least one director is definitely athiest; the other is unknown.
4) Have you *met* any recently-out gay folks?
You know, Nexev may be a troll but he does a point there. Moping about it doesn’t solve anything. Ethan needs to do something about it. I don’t know what that something is but sitting there and mope doesn’t make the world change for you. You know what happen the last time a fictional character mopes? The entire population got turned into orange juice, or so I’ve been told.
Moping doesn’t solve anything, but I can’t imagine he’s the only guy on campus moping about how single he is right now. Guy’s entitled to a moment of self-pity when life’s getting him down. A single instance of griping to a friend hardly seems a sign that he’s not gonna do anything about this. Pretty sure we’re about to see him do something about it right now actually. Looks like a bad idea to be sure, but I don’t think inactivity or complacence is gonna be the problem.
Multiplex does have Neil and Chase. But Neil is older, and Chase seems … how do you say, not quite compatible with Ethan. And neither is Jewish, as far as I know.
And every single one of those men who pretended to be gay? It bit them in the ass when they got caught seeking love from a man. Don’t do it, Ethan! She’s not worth it! Even if she is Joyce.
Unless this story is set sometime in the past, there’s almost certainly some kind of gay social group, gay/straight alliance, or something like that on campus.
Man, my first week of college I went to a meeting at the local queer club. We’re not that hard to find. And I live in Texas, and most of the people I know are still bi/gay/pan/whathaveyou.
Considering how neurotic both Ethan and Amber are right now, I wouldn’t be surprised to find that Mike was their Voice of Reason. And Mike seems shocked by Joyce walking in.
I could see it. Granted, that’s mostly because Joyce picks up friends like underwear off the floor, but I do think they’ve played off well off each other before.
I like this. Ethan tries to stay true to his beliefs (In S*P anyhow) and stay optimistic… Joyce could help him with that and Ethan seems like he’d be a nice, stable guy friend for Joyce.
i dont actually know if thats an official thing, all i know is that at cmu once a year a bunch of guys would stand in the quad, at the fence for those that know the landscape, and tell tales of them coming out and therd be signs all over the damn place
That fact that Lincoln gets his own tag makes me hopeful for more Lincoln adventures. Is it too much to hope for that he’d show up like Reagan in Shortpacked?
Not surprising. People like to keep it quiet or pretend he was asexual, because, you know, ewww no icky homos in our history!!
There’s even still people who debate it, though the yes-he-was side has his complete lack of sexual interest in women, a trial for sodomy with a dude, the decades Leonardo spent shacked up with another dude, those naked boner pictures Leonardo drew of said other dude and a bunch of other stuff, while the no-he-wasn’t has a grand total of “He can’t have been homosexual because I admire him yet homosexuality threatens me.”
I dunno, he seemed interested in the mechanics of how things work- and a soft tissue that gets really hard seems like the kind of thing that would be of interest to the dude. Of course, I’m not saying he wasn’t gay, just that that’s not the ONLY explanation.
“A page of drawings by Leonardo also includes a crudely drawn sketch by a student depicting an anus, identified as “Salaì’s [the dude he shacked up with] bum”, pursued by a horde of penises on legs.”
Clinical interest in how soft tissue gets hard. Riiiiight.
Most likely? Is there any reason to think he was straight at all? I remember the Family Guy episode where Stewie finds out he’s Leonardo’s direct descendant and has to impregnate the man’s girlfriend, and thinking, “Uh, No!”
Ooh boy, a whim brought me back crawling through the comment archives, and I have a question and implicit accusation to answer.
No, there is no reason to think he was straight. He never married and never expressed the slightest interest in a woman.
However, gay and straight are not the only two options! It was the belief of many of his contemporaries (including Voltaire, who liked to opine on such subjects) that Newton died celibate. Being an asexual man myself, I don’t consider this implausible.
Newton had a close friendship with one of his disciples, the Swiss mathematician Nikolas Fatio De Dullier. The two spent a lot of time together (it is possible that they shared quarters), and Newton’s letters reveal a rare level of affection (which is to say some affection). For his part, De Dullier was devoted to Newton and defended him vociferously in public.
When De Dullier left suddenly to study under another natural philosopher, Newton broke contact with his friends and sulked in his lab for some time. Newton had a similar breakdown on only one other occasion, on which occasion no external source was evident.
Obviously it’s not difficult to read between the lines and suggest a sexual relationship between the two, but to judge matters conclusively on such scant evidence seems questionable, especially given that Newton was an uncommonly devout (if unorthodox) Christian throughout his life.
I though she knew she was gay around the time she saw “Return of the Jedi” with Slave Girl Leia. It wasn’t so much she didn’t know, as she refused to admit.
It’s been, what, a week? And this will be the third potential husband that doesn’t work out?
Joyce is going to be gay herself by the end of the month. By then I imagine she’ll have tried a dozen different guys, had an unpleasant experience with all of them, and be ready to give up on men forever.
Then Sal lets her brush her hair, and her fate is sealed.
Don’t forget if he plays this out with Joyce and AMBER finds out she will also be hurt (and considering she not only took rejection with grace and dignity and kindness and understanding but even HELPED THE GUY WHEN HE CAME OUT OF THE CLOSET TO HIS FAMILY…).
I see Ethan and Joyce less like oil and water, and more like alkali metal and water, both are inert unless put together, then Boom! also, there’s a 100% certainty that Mike invited Joyce over for just this occasion.
ETHAN NOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooowait a sec, Mike looks like he’s actually concerned and was not expecting Joyce to come up right now. Perhaps this whole conversation was supposed to take a different turn? In fact, Mike’s looked concerned for Ethan quite a few times in the DoAverse….
Okay, First of all, Mike needs to go somewhere. Plenty of Gay men find true love and become happy too, especially where gay marriage is legalized. Its the 21 century for Heavens sake.
Second, Ethan, being in Ambers shoes once upon I can say with full certainty that dating Joyce (a complete stranger) over Amber (best friend and possibly once girlfriend) would be THE assholiest move in the history of forever. If you do this I will pay Willis a small fortune to put me in the comic and smack you upside the head. ^^
well, you wouldn’t have to worry about unfulfilling sex with that one! And who cares if she’ll insist on you embracing Christianity when you’re Jewish? You’ve already decided to ignore one aspect of your identity, what’s another.
In my experience that’s not true. There’s no big sign that lights up, no badge gets issued. Once you’re out you have to keep telling people. Even if you print up a big newsletter and forward it to everyone you know, you’re still meeting new people, and though they may easily find out from other people it’s hardly automatic. Unless you make a big show of being campy or habitually mention it to people on first meeting (as one of my friends used to) it’s entirely possible for an entire segment of your friends to simply not know.
Personally I don’t mention it unless I have a particularly compelling reason to (eg we’re discussing partners or who we find attractive at the cinema, or treatment of closet mechanics in webcomics).
Some people can pass as straight some can’t. A male interior design major who is short, skinny, always has perfect hair and has a bevy of female friends pretty much doesn’t need to announce to the world he’s gay. The world probably figured it out before he did.
On the other hand, I find myself always outing myself whenever I talk about my wife. But I do have long hair and am a nerd and that tends to confuse people and my nerd signal is stronger than my lady-gay signal.
And don’t account for people like me, who has absolutly gaydar to speak. Meaning I actually have no way of knowing unless specifically mentioned or shown outright.
1) Some statements are inherently offensive to a given person, regardless of who says them. This even extends to fictional people saying them; the statements are just something one doesn’t want to hear. (Or read, you pedant.)
2) It’s possible to dislike some group forcibly appropriating a historic icon you like as a figurehead for their cause. People who claim Lincoln is gay aren’t doing it because they actually know it to be fact; it’s (usually) because they want to hold him up as some kind of example or something. (That part is admittedly unclear to me, but I can see how it might be irritating to other people either way.)
If fictional characters can’t sadden you, anger you, gladden you, excite you, amuse you, and yes, even offend you, then I can’t imagine why you partake in any form of fiction, much less a character driven slice of life webcomic. What possible appeal could this have if fictional characters cannot illicit an emotional from you?
1) Cause the fictional character’s lines were written by a real person.
2) If that person is offended over the fact that untrue information was stated as if it was fact for the purpose of cause controversy, thus being borderline slander.
Does it seem odd that out of all the guys Joyce has shown an active interest in, Joe still looks like the best of the three.
We’ve got an evil would-be rapist, a self-loathing gay man, and then Joe, who lets be frank, was completely honest with who he is and what he wants.
Meanwhile, its fascinating to watch Ethan ignore the obvious holes in this train of logic. Such as how hurt and pissed off Amber would have been if they had remained together and gotten married, only to years later discover Ethan were gay. Or the fact that Ethan would be trading one form of depression for another, due to the fact that no one is happy having to lie about who they are.
Considering it’s Mike… that’s hard to say. He enjoys stirring up shit after all and causing pain in others. So while he might not personally believe what he’s saying, its very possible the tone he’s using sounds genuine, simply to screw with Ethan.
Wait, there’s real evidance that Lincoln might have been gay? I thought that was something made of for American Dad just to get him in with a group of gay Republicans.
On the Lincoln note, as awesome as it would be if he was gay, he was QUITE the lady-lover in his younger days. I did a research paper on him when I was a high-school freshman…. good memories…
Ahh, Mike, I see you are still an asshole.
You know who likes assholes?
The same people that like butt sex.
You know who likes butt sex?
Gay people.
You know who’s gay?
Ethan.
But I’m not implying anything.
I think Mike might’ve just broken the 4th wall. It looks like he’s toying with Ethan, but in fact he’s trying to trigger a fight in the comments section.
In regards to lincoln, it doesnt really matter if he was gay or not in regards to how it effected him.
The only people that it should effect are people offended at the notion of him being straight, or people being offended that he is gay.
So the question is, is the reason you dont like it just because you dont like people “making stuff up” or w/e (which is reasonable)
or because people are suggesting he’s gay and that somehow makes him less of a person? I mean if he’s one of the greatest presidents how in the world could that possibly, ever, in any context be less important just because his sex drive is stimulated by male imagery rather than female?
Loading ...
Uh Oh
I had the exact same thought.
Your wish is granted!
Oh Crap!
Welp.
Oh snap
NOW TO BRING THE JEWS TO CHURCH
The GAY Jews.
Well this can only lead to good things!
Everything is fine and it will be that way forever!
for mike, sure.
Mike always wins in the end. Misery is eternal.
Something in here deeply offends me.
Is it Joyce’s smile and cheery deposition?
No i have gotten used to that.
The Lincoln part?
Yes.
I don’t see why anyone (other than homophobes, but I don’t think that’s your deal) would be offended by that… could you elaborate? Mike doesn’t need evidence to say this because he’s Mike. He’s using Lincoln as an example to get Ethan to stay in the closet. It doesn’t have to be an accurate example.
Eh, there’s a lot of support for that. Figure 40+ presidents, at least a few of them were probably gay. Lincoln’s just the most obvious one.
Actually no there isn’t outside of people make shit up.
It’s been speculated that William Shakespeare was bi.
Does this bug you as well?
It’s also been speculated that Shakespeare wasn’t actually Shakespeare. Truth be told, we know basically nothing about Shakespeare.
The important thing we do know about Shakespeare is that he was a Brummy, so the plays should be performed in the most irritating of English accents.
We know a lot about Shakespeare compared to most of his contemporaries. The Shakespeare wasn’t Shakespeareeee people are the grassy knoll folks of English literature. Most of the evidence ofLincoln being gay is, at best, ambiguous; there are better candidates for closeted presidents.
Lincoln could have been gay, or he may have just been stuck with a batshit crazy wife and just not have been that into her. Between that and a Civil War, I can see him not being Mr. Romance.
Bi no.
What are you talking about? Look at all this evidence that Lincoln was gay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewrHj_RRk0Y
I knew what that was before clicking it. Also, I love you.
That’s kind of the joke. It stacks on Ethan getting the idea that pulling a George Michael would be a good thing. Pooor Joycie.
I don’t understand why people are so resistant nowadays to the idea Lincoln was gay. When I was growing up, it was just taken for granted by those who look into such things; suddenly, in 2005 I think, a book brought it into the mainstream, and there was this enormous backlash.
I don’t think that was ever assumed outside of people who really wanted it to be true. Most Lincoln biographers scoff at the idea with good reason; much of the supporting evidence for him being gay comes from modern, out of context misinterpretation of 19th century social mores.
I’d put more stock into Buchanan than Lincoln, considering that there was LOT more contemporary speculation about him and William King and a bit more of a cover-up of the nature of their relationship, unlike Lincoln and his close friends.
Wait, Lincoln was gay? News to me.
No he wasn’t.
He shared a bed with a favorite bodyguard. Not with any bodyguard mind you, but a certain one.
Yea…
In an era where such practices were commonplace while traveling. There’s plenty of evidence that certain historical figures were not heterosexuals as usually assumed. But Lincoln really is a case of “it’s about as likely as Knockout and Breakdown. People want him to be, they see the strong bond, and so they jump to the conclusion that he must be and here’s the evidence.”
Not to deny the possibility. But the argument for him being gay is just… Dumb. Unless some new evidence has popped up I haven’t heard about yet, in which case sorry for being misinformed.
It’s more that the practice seemed specific to the one guy, not all his bodyguards, suggesting there might be “alternate” reasons for him doing it. Not a “slam dunk” as you put it, but certainly something to speculate on.
And speculate away. I’m cool with people offering it as potential evidence. I’m just iffy on how some people like to jump on these things and declare it as proof rather than evidence, or fact rather than speculation. And have a hard time seeing it as solid evidence on its own, just potential evidence.
I like the way you say “like Knockout and Breakdown” and just assume everyone gets the reference.
Not everyone here watches everything Transformers. Thankfully, for that there is Google.
Yeah, I have a bad habit of doing that in general. Sorry.
He also shared a bed with several other men at different times of his life, and he was always quite open about it. This was no unusual at the time. It’s probably worth noting that in a time of America’s worst partisan strife, no one accused him of homosexuality, despite said sleeping arrangements.
Here’s some idle speculation:
Let’s say you’re Lincoln, and you’re traveling with, say, 10 bodyguards. You stay at places with a limited number of rooms/beds, forcing some double-ups. Repeatedly sleeping in a bed with the same one could mean:
1) You’re having gay sex with him;
2) He’s the one who snores the least, and you get the best night’s sleep with him in your bed.
3) Second leads to first.
Unless he was.
There’s a “Lincoln was gay” movement. I haven’t paid much attention to it, beyond “He had a really close male friend.” I think the “Shakespear was gay” movement has a stronger case.
Sadly, “Buchanan was gay” has a much stronger case. So instead of Lincoln, us queers get they guy who is pretty much universally considered the worst president in the history of the country.
On a mostly unrelated note, the case for Shakespeare being bi is pretty good as well.
Buchanan was certainly accused of being gay during his time in office, but if he was he was also certainly interested in women as well. As for being the worst, this is a country with Polk, Grant, Harding and George W. Bush (A direct descendant of Polk on his mother’s side) on its list of former chief executives.
As Zap said he let the union collapse which led too the most bloodiest conflicts in US History. Yeah iam going to say Epic Fail is a understatement here. Polk tenure saw the opening of the smithsoian and despite stealing land away from Mexico he is till.looked upon favorably I am not condoing his actions and in hinsight they were wrong but he is still considered a popular president Harding as bad as he was yeah he was bad never finished his term and hs succesor was re-elected Grant despite crouption was re-elected and bush… He didnt let the union ccollapse Buchanan will probably remain the worst for awile
You can’t really blame the collapse of a country on one guy. There wasn’t really much he could do to stop it, given the hate that was rolling around, and the fact that both sides really, really, really believed in their arguments. If you do your homework, you’ll see that both sides also had very good reasons for acting as they did. The problem with the Civil War is that like most wars, its not as black and white as you’d like to make it. It’s two good guys fighting, not a good guy and a bad guy. Sure, if it was just buchanan vs. all the idiots, you could blame him. but it doesn’t work that way when both sides have very very strong reasons for doing what they do. That Civil War ball got rolling way back when they were framing our constitution and trying to figure out 3/5 of people. It was inevitable, unless MANY people made different decisions over time. If MANY people had chosen differently, it could have been different. Buchanan? Ha! By himself. Nah.
@PetrePan: Actually… As I recall, in between the time where Lincoln was elected and before he took office, some of the states were already seceding or preparing to and Buchanan just… let them.
He wasn’t solely responsible, but he really didn’t try to stop them at the end. That said, not an expert on this, so feel free to correct me.
Remember you can 100% claim J. Edgar Hoover… … yeah.
Don’t feel too bad though, George Bush is most likely hetero, so you’re at least not stuck with him.
There’s circumstantial evidence which says he was, but I tend to think he wasn’t. There’s much more concrete evidence that Buchanan was gay. Though the general consensus is that we’re about as happy to claim Buchanan as we are to claim J. Edgar Hoover.
Also a vampire hunter.
Oh c’mon now, Abraham Lincoln was NOT gay.
…he was a vampire hunter.
(Though maybe I shouldn’t be the one making this joke, seeing as I haven’t actually read the book yet)
He should have been gay in that movie. There aren’t enough movies about gay vampire hunters.
I think Buffy is bi; does that count?
“Gay” and “vampire hunter” are mutually exclusive now?
Considering how much effort Lincoln put into courting Mary Todd I seriously doubt he was gay. It’s not like she was rich or that big of a prize. Now his predecessor James Buchanan was likely gay since he never married and was reputed to be more than friends with a senator he shared a house with. However, he is also our worst president and typically if a group is going to claim someone as their own they want a winner.
Also Buchanan was also known to skinny dip in the Potomac. Not sure if that has to do with anything just an interesting fact about the President who let the Union fall apart, also Mary Todd use to hold séances in the white house though I think that is common knowledge.
John Quincy Adams was the first President to make a fuss about about Potomac skinny-dipping (he also wrote that sex outdoors was the best sex).
Ok that last thing is news to me.
Well, there’s always the bi option. I was thinking that when I was reading about the arguments about Richard the Lionheart being gay.
“He had a wife and an illegitimate son!”
“He was probably sleeping with that dude!”
If only there was some way for a man to do both while being true to himself…
Lion Heart may have fathered a child, but he was pretty unambiguously into duds almost exclusively. He may well have been in the “Close your eyes and think of England” camp when it came to the ladies.
Whether or not Lincoln was gay is a matter of debate. Neither argument really has much evidence to go off of, as far as I’ve read or been able to find. Lincoln, of course, went through the motions of being straight. He had a wife, children, etc. But we also have to remember that this was a time when being gay was a crime. A crime you could go to jail for. People tried to hide it as best they could.
That being said, most of the evidence used to make the claim that Lincoln was gay is circumstantial at best, and can be explained pretty simply.
That said, I’m not a Lincoln scholar. I honestly don’t even like the guy much. He was kind of an asshole, who for some reason gets credit for “freeing the slaves.”
He might have been gay, he may not have been. But either way, these characters are young and in college. No reason they would acknowledge the complexities of this historical oddity.
I find it interesting that Lincoln has to be proved to be gay – that straight is the 100% default unless proven otherwise. Let’s face it, I doubt that married (with children) Republicans coming out of the closet is unique to the 21st century.
Straight is the 90%-95% default, and
with pretty good reason.
its as much a matter of circumstance than anything else. if lincoln spent his whole life starting wars at the gay bar then the burden of proof would be on showing hes straight, but since he was married with what should have been a bunch of kids (lots of death) you gotta prove he was gay
It offends me that the writer called Lincoln gay. Is it just because he was against slavery, Mr. Willis? Not all anti-slave supporters are gay. You are behind the times, sir.
I know it’s just a joke, but Lincoln’s Republicans had almost nothing to do with today’s Republicans.
And politicians turning out to be gay isn’t exclusively a Republican thing.
Actually my defualt is bi.
LaFayette was like the white house bicycle.
Seriously.
“Log Cabin” Republicans? Hello?
Naw, probably just a coincidence. But a funny one.
Not a coincidence, they chose the name because of the speculation about Lincoln.
I didn’t realize it was specifically the speculation as opposed to “what the republican party was ‘supposed’ to be about” or something like that.
Cool fact!
That’s not how statistics work.
I think this is an example of the popular ‘lies, damned lies, and’ variant.
I think that you don’t know how statistics work either.
Lie enough and you can tip the statistics in your favor.
Maybe one of those 40+ presidents was female too. Or an alien. Or a female alien. Same odds.
Couple of them were probably Mexican too.
Illegal female Mexican aliens masquerading as presidents.
Well, it couldn’t be Mike. He’s the least-offensive character ever!
” For Reuben and Charles have married two girls,
But Billy has married a boy.
The girls he had tried on every side,
But none he could get to agree;
All was in vain, he went home again,
And since that he’s married to Natty.” ~ Abe Lincoln
…you’re offended by something Mike says?
Mike?
Really?
Oh, hi, Lisa!
Your tearing me apart Lisa!!!!!!!!!
*Shoots mechaqua out of a cannon up an elephant’s butt for making a bad movie reference*
If i didn’t do it someone else would have! and then you would have had to shoot someone else out a piece of artillery who probably didn’t deserve so ha!
I made the reference first but mechaqua got the blame. Excellent! Excellent….
Thanks for reminding me.*Disengages the saftey*
O hai Mark.
Goddammit, Mike.
Lol, oh boy…I was wondering when Joyce was gonna see Ethan again
I think Ethan needs to grow a pair and stop moping about how gay he is.
If its so hard to find gay jewish people then date gay christian people or something.
Hell we already crossovered with multiplex. Date that director.
Who is this “we”?
The royal we?
Legion?
I would not be surprised to find out that Mike is Legion.
I don’t know, Mike seems way too calculating to be Legion.
We could be anything. We three, we the people and my favourite WHEEEEEEEE!
I love this. You’re in my Cool book.
Aww, he thinks he’s people now…
Why, you smug, condescending, beautiful mind, you!
1) There are two directors.
2) Neither director is gay.
3) At least one director is definitely athiest; the other is unknown.
4) Have you *met* any recently-out gay folks?
You know, Nexev may be a troll but he does a point there. Moping about it doesn’t solve anything. Ethan needs to do something about it. I don’t know what that something is but sitting there and mope doesn’t make the world change for you. You know what happen the last time a fictional character mopes? The entire population got turned into orange juice, or so I’ve been told.
Moping doesn’t solve anything, but I can’t imagine he’s the only guy on campus moping about how single he is right now. Guy’s entitled to a moment of self-pity when life’s getting him down. A single instance of griping to a friend hardly seems a sign that he’s not gonna do anything about this. Pretty sure we’re about to see him do something about it right now actually. Looks like a bad idea to be sure, but I don’t think inactivity or complacence is gonna be the problem.
He’s not the only guy _in the cast_ to be moping around feeling alone.
Ethan doesn’t need to do anything but shutiup and thank his Jewish God he isn’t also a transsexual with a bondage fetish.
Multiplex does have Neil and Chase. But Neil is older, and Chase seems … how do you say, not quite compatible with Ethan. And neither is Jewish, as far as I know.
DUN DUN DAAAAAA!!!!
That was exactly my response as well!
And every single one of those men who pretended to be gay? It bit them in the ass when they got caught seeking love from a man. Don’t do it, Ethan! She’s not worth it! Even if she is Joyce.
Please, have you seen her rack? Nobody’s that gay.
In a related note, Christopher Plummer won the Oscar.
… This will not end well for any party involved.
except for mike
What is it about Joyce and the Jewish men?
Also, currently shipping Joyce/Mike.
She’s never met any Jews and so she isn’t thinking about a potential difference between them and the uber-Christian boys she’s used to?
And that ship certainly makes about as much sense as any other ship DoA has produced so far.
Joe. Joe is Jewish.
He is? Oh. Missed that.
Though is Joyce really likely to realize that?
They… they talked about it in the comic, didn’t they? That Joyce was going on a date with a Jewish boy?
Yeah, they did. She was all ‘I can work with this’
She also knows Ethan’s Jewish. IIRC, Sarah pointed that out to her.
Mike will date Joyce if that will make her life miserable.
Isn’t that sort of like saying, “the sun will rise tomorrow morning”?
It is. I simply meant that yes, Mike and Joyce dating is a could-happen thing, since Mike would have a motive for doing it.
Ethan, run! Don’t let the one with the triangle smile get you. BTW, blond asshole? Mike, how I miss thee!
But now instead of a blond asshole Ethan will have a blond beard.
Wait. Is that how we will tell that he’s the Good Mike?
…oh dear…
I just heard a dramatic music sting.
I just heard the Psycho sting.
Why did I just imagine Joyce hold stabbing people in the shower?
Because it’s fitting.
“WE’RE *SHOWER BUDDIES*!!!!”
stabstabstab
Noel is now in my Cool book.
So Ethan hasn’t ran into ANY other gay guys at college?
Surprising. When I was in college you could at least spot the flamboyant ones…
One week, though… and I doubt he’s looked that hard. It’s easier to sulk and bemoan and hide out with his high school friends.
Took me about a month to find ’em. Being in the closet didn’t help, but they were there.
Unless this story is set sometime in the past, there’s almost certainly some kind of gay social group, gay/straight alliance, or something like that on campus.
If it wasn’t set in the past when it started, it certainly is by now.
Man, my first week of college I went to a meeting at the local queer club. We’re not that hard to find. And I live in Texas, and most of the people I know are still bi/gay/pan/whathaveyou.
Shouldn’t Ethan by now know not to take advice from Mike?
Considering how neurotic both Ethan and Amber are right now, I wouldn’t be surprised to find that Mike was their Voice of Reason. And Mike seems shocked by Joyce walking in.
For some reason, after Joyce finds out Ethan’s gay, I want them to end up being besties.
Agreed.
+1 to that. They’d make such good moirails!
Because nothing fulfills a gay man’s life like being a straight woman’s lap dog.
Nice Homestuck reference BTW
Lap dog? I’m not really sure why that comes immediately to mind when you think of a gay guy & straight woman as friends, but it does make me worried.
I could see it. Granted, that’s mostly because Joyce picks up friends like underwear off the floor, but I do think they’ve played off well off each other before.
I like this. Ethan tries to stay true to his beliefs (In S*P anyhow) and stay optimistic… Joyce could help him with that and Ethan seems like he’d be a nice, stable guy friend for Joyce.
well if hes willing to wait until 2025 when this comic reaches october he can always meet guys at that ‘comin out the closet day’ thing
…Is that a real thing? Why did my school not have this?
Oh. Right.
i dont actually know if thats an official thing, all i know is that at cmu once a year a bunch of guys would stand in the quad, at the fence for those that know the landscape, and tell tales of them coming out and therd be signs all over the damn place
The fence? So you mean Carnegie Mellon, not Central Michigan or any of the other CMUs?
It’s definitely a thing. We paint the wall for it here.
Of course, you can paint the wall for most anything, and the gaypril paint job is more of a thing. But that is irrelevant.
That fact that Lincoln gets his own tag makes me hopeful for more Lincoln adventures. Is it too much to hope for that he’d show up like Reagan in Shortpacked?
No, Ethan.
No.
Mike. HE SPEAKS!
LARGE AMOUNTS OF DIALOGUE!
Mike is my favorite in all universes, and DoA Mike is really exciting to read. He is not even hiding that he cares about Ethan <3
Leonardo da Vinci was most likely gay. That’d be a better example.
Too obvious and far too less controversial?
a better example, but not the Mike example.
Erm…he was? Boy, I feel dumb.
Not surprising. People like to keep it quiet or pretend he was asexual, because, you know, ewww no icky homos in our history!!
There’s even still people who debate it, though the yes-he-was side has his complete lack of sexual interest in women, a trial for sodomy with a dude, the decades Leonardo spent shacked up with another dude, those naked boner pictures Leonardo drew of said other dude and a bunch of other stuff, while the no-he-wasn’t has a grand total of “He can’t have been homosexual because I admire him yet homosexuality threatens me.”
So. You know!
I dunno, he seemed interested in the mechanics of how things work- and a soft tissue that gets really hard seems like the kind of thing that would be of interest to the dude. Of course, I’m not saying he wasn’t gay, just that that’s not the ONLY explanation.
“A page of drawings by Leonardo also includes a crudely drawn sketch by a student depicting an anus, identified as “Salaì’s [the dude he shacked up with] bum”, pursued by a horde of penises on legs.”
Clinical interest in how soft tissue gets hard. Riiiiight.
whoa, I did not know that.
Sweet.
It seems likely that Isaac Newton was gay. He was almost certainly celibate throughout his life, though.
Most likely? Is there any reason to think he was straight at all? I remember the Family Guy episode where Stewie finds out he’s Leonardo’s direct descendant and has to impregnate the man’s girlfriend, and thinking, “Uh, No!”
Ooh boy, a whim brought me back crawling through the comment archives, and I have a question and implicit accusation to answer.
No, there is no reason to think he was straight. He never married and never expressed the slightest interest in a woman.
However, gay and straight are not the only two options! It was the belief of many of his contemporaries (including Voltaire, who liked to opine on such subjects) that Newton died celibate. Being an asexual man myself, I don’t consider this implausible.
Newton had a close friendship with one of his disciples, the Swiss mathematician Nikolas Fatio De Dullier. The two spent a lot of time together (it is possible that they shared quarters), and Newton’s letters reveal a rare level of affection (which is to say some affection). For his part, De Dullier was devoted to Newton and defended him vociferously in public.
When De Dullier left suddenly to study under another natural philosopher, Newton broke contact with his friends and sulked in his lab for some time. Newton had a similar breakdown on only one other occasion, on which occasion no external source was evident.
Obviously it’s not difficult to read between the lines and suggest a sexual relationship between the two, but to judge matters conclusively on such scant evidence seems questionable, especially given that Newton was an uncommonly devout (if unorthodox) Christian throughout his life.
Maybe he just couldn’t get the stain of his weenie.
He tried scrubbing, soaking… but he still had “Ring Around The Wiener! RING Around The Wiener!”
That’s enough to put anyone in a funk!
This is how a senator’s marriage starts.
This is how Leslie’s marriage starts.
Leslie didn’t know she was a lesbian when she got married.
I though she knew she was gay around the time she saw “Return of the Jedi” with Slave Girl Leia. It wasn’t so much she didn’t know, as she refused to admit.
Maybe she just thought that she was bi when she got married. Hell, maybe she WAS bi when she got married. It’s happened before.
You can know you like women but be in denial about being a lesbian (see some, but not all, girls who identify as bisexual)
I say this as someone who figured out she was attracted to the ladies pretty young, but dated men until she was 24. (Catholic guilt helps enable this)
Ohoho I can’t wait to see how this develops.
It’s been, what, a week? And this will be the third potential husband that doesn’t work out?
Joyce is going to be gay herself by the end of the month. By then I imagine she’ll have tried a dozen different guys, had an unpleasant experience with all of them, and be ready to give up on men forever.
Then Sal lets her brush her hair, and her fate is sealed.
This is how all the best/worst fanfics start.
Ohhhh this is gonna be good.
*pops popcorn*
Ohhhhhhhhh…
I see where this is going.
Oh, this will end in tears. (For Joyce and Ethan. Mike will enjoy the train wreck.)
Also Amber.
Don’t forget if he plays this out with Joyce and AMBER finds out she will also be hurt (and considering she not only took rejection with grace and dignity and kindness and understanding but even HELPED THE GUY WHEN HE CAME OUT OF THE CLOSET TO HIS FAMILY…).
I bet he’s gonna start a double life as a straight guy. Hilarity and angst ensued.
I’m afraid you’re right. Been there, done that, NO FUN.
I see Ethan and Joyce less like oil and water, and more like alkali metal and water, both are inert unless put together, then Boom! also, there’s a 100% certainty that Mike invited Joyce over for just this occasion.
ETHAN NOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooowait a sec, Mike looks like he’s actually concerned and was not expecting Joyce to come up right now. Perhaps this whole conversation was supposed to take a different turn? In fact, Mike’s looked concerned for Ethan quite a few times in the DoAverse….
Okay, First of all, Mike needs to go somewhere. Plenty of Gay men find true love and become happy too, especially where gay marriage is legalized. Its the 21 century for Heavens sake.
Second, Ethan, being in Ambers shoes once upon I can say with full certainty that dating Joyce (a complete stranger) over Amber (best friend and possibly once girlfriend) would be THE assholiest move in the history of forever. If you do this I will pay Willis a small fortune to put me in the comic and smack you upside the head. ^^
It is the 21st century – the century where place that do not have Gay marriage outnumber those that do.
I’m ashamed this is true v.v
well, you wouldn’t have to worry about unfulfilling sex with that one! And who cares if she’ll insist on you embracing Christianity when you’re Jewish? You’ve already decided to ignore one aspect of your identity, what’s another.
Seriously, Mick/Ethan. Pleaseohpleaseohplease!!
Mick? Is that a new character?
A clever alias for people who type quickly late at night and don’t necessarily double check for typos.
MIKE/ETHAN, thanks for pointing out my inadequacy.
Also, you’re not gonna fool anyone wearing a short sleeved hoodie. Good god, y’all…
Yep. He hasn’t got the arms to pull off that look and appear straight.
Wait, Ethan’s gay? *is shot*
Don’t be stupid, he’s clearly interested in Joyce.
He just likes her for her religion.
And her penis.
Makes sense. In the Walkyverse, Joyce has a very large penis.
You’re out of the closet, Ethan. People know. You can’t stuff yourself back in that easily.
That’s what she said!
In my experience that’s not true. There’s no big sign that lights up, no badge gets issued. Once you’re out you have to keep telling people. Even if you print up a big newsletter and forward it to everyone you know, you’re still meeting new people, and though they may easily find out from other people it’s hardly automatic. Unless you make a big show of being campy or habitually mention it to people on first meeting (as one of my friends used to) it’s entirely possible for an entire segment of your friends to simply not know.
Personally I don’t mention it unless I have a particularly compelling reason to (eg we’re discussing partners or who we find attractive at the cinema, or treatment of closet mechanics in webcomics).
Unless of course people automatically assume you’re gay, like they do with me.
Some people can pass as straight some can’t. A male interior design major who is short, skinny, always has perfect hair and has a bevy of female friends pretty much doesn’t need to announce to the world he’s gay. The world probably figured it out before he did.
On the other hand, I find myself always outing myself whenever I talk about my wife. But I do have long hair and am a nerd and that tends to confuse people and my nerd signal is stronger than my lady-gay signal.
And don’t account for people like me, who has absolutly gaydar to speak. Meaning I actually have no way of knowing unless specifically mentioned or shown outright.
Amber gravatar = coincidence?
A POSSIBLE BEARD APPEARS!
I’m picturing Ethan with a beard right now.
The ‘beard‘ in question is Joyce.
He knows what you mean. But the image can still come to mind (as it did for me. And it’s awesome)
So does this mean that, like with Riker from TNG, Ethan’s chracter growth in the future will be inexorably linked to shaving Joyce?
…wow, that came out interestingly. As I’m sure would Ethan. Once shaving Joyce comes into the picture.
I’m amused that people aren’t familiar with the term “beard” in this context.
Sadly, or amusingly (depending on your perspective), Christian girls who don’t want to engage in pre-marital hanky-panky make for excellent beards.
Also, I think Ethan doesn’t really understand how many gay male geeks there are. There are a lot. 🙂
Again, I’m pretty sure everyone here knows what beard means…
And I’m picturing Joyce with one!
QUICK ETHAN, THROW THE MASTER BALL!
I can’t be the only person who really wants Mike and Ethan to hook up in this comic, can I?
You are definitely not. orz
Ethan you fool, why do you Mike’s telling you this stuff?! You’re DOOMED now.
….Lincoln was gay?? WTF? Where’d that come from? I’ve never heard of that and he’s my fave president! *blink*
And Joyce… back away from the gay jew. You can’t change him or make him eat bacon…
Yup, he’s a sausage-only kinda guy.
To be fair, there is a ton of debate on that. You shouldn’t be so certain either way.
…You win the thread.
a gay jewish nerd… he needs to date bryan singer!
“Something in here deeply offends me.” (Mkvenner)
There are two magnificently wrong things in this sentence.
1) How can the fact that a fictional character asserts anything be offensive?
2) More interesting, how can the fact anyone asserts anyone is gay be offensive to anyone? Aside of homophobic people.
1) Some statements are inherently offensive to a given person, regardless of who says them. This even extends to fictional people saying them; the statements are just something one doesn’t want to hear. (Or read, you pedant.)
2) It’s possible to dislike some group forcibly appropriating a historic icon you like as a figurehead for their cause. People who claim Lincoln is gay aren’t doing it because they actually know it to be fact; it’s (usually) because they want to hold him up as some kind of example or something. (That part is admittedly unclear to me, but I can see how it might be irritating to other people either way.)
If fictional characters can’t sadden you, anger you, gladden you, excite you, amuse you, and yes, even offend you, then I can’t imagine why you partake in any form of fiction, much less a character driven slice of life webcomic. What possible appeal could this have if fictional characters cannot illicit an emotional from you?
If you had remembered to put “response” in the last sentence, and used “elicit” instead of “illicit”, that would be a pretty quotable comment.
You forgot
3) It’s Mike. He’s supposed to be offensive.
1) Cause the fictional character’s lines were written by a real person.
2) If that person is offended over the fact that untrue information was stated as if it was fact for the purpose of cause controversy, thus being borderline slander.
^Just some ideas.
You don’t have to be homophobic to hate politically-driven revisionist history. (I wouldn’t care if the case for Lincoln being gay was pretty good.)
Does it seem odd that out of all the guys Joyce has shown an active interest in, Joe still looks like the best of the three.
We’ve got an evil would-be rapist, a self-loathing gay man, and then Joe, who lets be frank, was completely honest with who he is and what he wants.
Meanwhile, its fascinating to watch Ethan ignore the obvious holes in this train of logic. Such as how hurt and pissed off Amber would have been if they had remained together and gotten married, only to years later discover Ethan were gay. Or the fact that Ethan would be trading one form of depression for another, due to the fact that no one is happy having to lie about who they are.
Being Joyce is suffering.
Being Ethan is suffering, too.
I’d take a fourth option.
Lincoln was totes homogay. I have the proofs. Watch!
*plays Electric Six’s “Gay Bar” video*
of COURSE Lincoln was gay……….why do you think he invited John Booth up during the intermission? LoLz
I think Mike just hit Ethan with a closet.
Ethan please don’t make me hate you for being stupid enough to think that will work.
Not to mention how much of a dick move that is to Amber.
And to Joyce. And to himself, for that matter.
Poor guy. Up until this story arc, I figured he was as much at peace with himself as SP!Ethan.
NICE
I’m not the only one who’s reading Mike as scathingly sarcastic right?
Considering it’s Mike… that’s hard to say. He enjoys stirring up shit after all and causing pain in others. So while he might not personally believe what he’s saying, its very possible the tone he’s using sounds genuine, simply to screw with Ethan.
Wait, there’s real evidance that Lincoln might have been gay? I thought that was something made of for American Dad just to get him in with a group of gay Republicans.
Ahhh shit
That last panel makes me think this strip could totally be re-enacted by Joyce and Ethan:
http://www.shortpacked.com/2006/comic/book-3-is-totally-gay/07-dirty-pool/hiimdaisy/
On the Lincoln note, as awesome as it would be if he was gay, he was QUITE the lady-lover in his younger days. I did a research paper on him when I was a high-school freshman…. good memories…
goddammit
why are none of the characters I like safe from the characters I hate
No. No, no, no, no, no. NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO ,NO, NO!
On second thought this might make an interesting storyline. Who’s with me? 😛
Knowing Willis, I’m expecting he’ll subvert it before it goes the way we think.
Ahh, Mike, I see you are still an asshole.
You know who likes assholes?
The same people that like butt sex.
You know who likes butt sex?
Gay people.
You know who’s gay?
Ethan.
But I’m not implying anything.
*nods*
. . .
I think Mike might’ve just broken the 4th wall. It looks like he’s toying with Ethan, but in fact he’s trying to trigger a fight in the comments section.
Mike confirmed for David’s patsy!
Joyce, you’re doing it wrong.
You’re supposed to go, “Hi, I’m Joyce!”
Oh. Shit. No.
Joyce: Ohai Ethan!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ4KzClb1C4
Ohai joyce!
http://youtu.be/7mMyV2YQgAA
so he’s gay and he’s not happy that he is. I wonder if there eneyother gay peoeple that hate there lives
In regards to lincoln, it doesnt really matter if he was gay or not in regards to how it effected him.
The only people that it should effect are people offended at the notion of him being straight, or people being offended that he is gay.
So the question is, is the reason you dont like it just because you dont like people “making stuff up” or w/e (which is reasonable)
or because people are suggesting he’s gay and that somehow makes him less of a person? I mean if he’s one of the greatest presidents how in the world could that possibly, ever, in any context be less important just because his sex drive is stimulated by male imagery rather than female?
I haven’t pointed this out until now, but is Mike supposed to look like Johnny Bravo?