I hate this meme so very, very much. At least it seems it’s typically getting confined to just one thread these days. Too bad it’s usually a thread near the top of the comments and so is one of the first I see. -_-
You needn’t worry. Joe is never right. Danny has no insight at ALL about why Billie suddenly switched gears that fast. That’s indicative of a greater issue beyond crying, drunk, or underage. One that implies he MAY have been taking advantage of her.
Also Joe is a pig and I will rationalize any reason away for the the chance to say he’s wrong. If he was my roommate I’d have had coins on his eyes before the third day.
“Coins in his eyes before the third day”. Really? Nothing like reading something you wrote a while back and being amazed you worded it like that. Must have just watched Boondock Saints or something.
Actually I don’t think it’s all that weird to agree with Joe here, sure he is a perv but he honestly seems to think of sex as something that should be fun for both parties. I’m also sure that he always lets the girl know it means nothing more then fun to him.
Joe’s problem is that he can’t understand why he doesn’t simply want a casual bang as opposed to a meaningful relationship. Danny’s problem is that the former is easier to find than the latter. And a problem they share is that they are in a webcomic where drama is king.
Yes there is that, but I do agree with Joe that a girl who is not drunk emotionally distraught or underage is perfectly capable of making a decision about having casual sex. Joe is accusing Danny of holding a double standard. Which in this case Danny was assuming that he was taking advantage of her, implying true that girls who have emotionally distraught, which is not true.
True Billie was probably distraught but Danny had no way of knowing that.
wow my poor grammar amazes and incoherent thought pattern amazes me some times okay… Let me re-write this into form that everyone can understand well maybe not but it will be more clearer then what is written above. Joe is accusing Danny of holding a double standard assuming that women who have casually have sex are emotionally distraught yet men are perfectly capable of separating emotions from sex. Therefore it is wrong to have casual sex with a women if she initiates it because you may be taking advantage of her.
Women are perfectly capable of having casual sex if they want to that they can separate emotion from sex.
Billie may have been emotionally distraught but Danny did not know that perhaps she was just aroused by Danny.
The other conclusion i get from this is Danny has low self esteem because he assumes Billie would never have sex with him unless she had emotional issues.
Don’t forget that people can have casual sex without separating emotions from it. The emotion just doesn’t have to be romantic tru-luv. But would Danny still consider it to be taking advantage of someone who wanted sex for celebration, consolation, or just friendly togetherness? We see how he reacts to introduction sex.
The I suspect it wasn’t really friendly togetherness sex . . .
A lot of people (okay, guys) will pretend to be into
the friendly sex with a someone they a carrying a
serious torch for. This always ends badly.
But the thing is, Danny didn’t turn her down because he wasn’t into it (which was perfectly within his rights). He totally was into it. He turned her down because he thought she might later regret it.
And I have to agree with Joe. If she wasn’t underage, upset, or drunk, then where does Danny get off saying that he knows better than her whether or not she wants to do it? Because basically Danny’s saying that, while he has no reason to think that her judgement may be impaired, she still isn’t capable of making rational decisions about who she wants to have sex with.
It’s not implausible, but it’s most likely not what happened. Was she acting particularly upset? Does he have any of her “normal” behaviour to compare?
(For that matter, do we?)
And most relevantly, if he did catch some subtle hint, he hasn’t told this to Joe. So far, he seems to be in the right on all counts.
Yeah, he might not have realized it. Besides, Billie was making a sad sort of face right before she *jumped him with no warning*. That doesn’t seem like casual no-strings sex to me, that seems like sudden emotional imbalance. I don’t think it’s a double standard of Danny’s to decide that she might regret it later on. Casual sex is if two people are hanging out being friendly and one thing leads to another. I’ve never seen someone just randomly jump someone.
Because saying “Joe, I declined to have sex with this woman because she might be crazy” would be the right thing to say in this situation. We should ALWAYS tell annoying roommates our snap judgements of people, that can’t possibly go wrong.
It’s like the first panel where Joe asks if Danny just didn’t want a casual bang and Danny responds by saying that he did in fact want one and then listing a reason other than lack of desire for his refusal to partake. If Danny just doesn’t want casual sex then I can’t really blame Joe for not understanding why. Don’t see how that’s a problem of his.
Besides, with sex there are different types of “want to.” Danny follows that up by saying “I’m not *dead*!” implying that he’s talking about physical desire. Choosing to have casual sex with a pushy stranger does not necessarily follow from that want.
I get that. Just saying Joe’s not a mind reader. Hardly a failing on his part that he doesn’t understand why Danny doesn’t want that. Hell, I suspect Danny himself might not fully understand the reasons behind his own attitudes and preferences, or even his own actions in the past half hour.
If Danny had clearly explained himself and Joe couldn’t understand then that would be a problem on his end. As is it sounds like he’s being blamed for not knowing information that hasn’t been made available to him.
See, it really depends on what part of the country you’re in. I’m in The Bible Belt see, and although I’m good looking, intelligent, and at least moderately humble I’ve never found myself in a situation where a casual bang would be probable without putting out an immense amount of effort to get it.
Except in the panels it’s clear that Danny did want the casual sex but was freaked that a girl of sound mind and body would regret it later since you know in his world girls are pure white angels who never want casual sex.
Hence Joe’s whole point of Danny being a dick. In fact Joe is a better person than Danny. Danny would rather force his own beliefs and morals on others in any given situation. Joe believes in letting each person making up their own damn mind and never really takes advantage of anyone even if he may joke about it now and then.
There’s a difference between thinking that Danny has no right to make up his own mind and pointing out that Danny turned down sex for really stupid and borderline misogynistic reasons.
Also, I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that Joe thinks men as a whole can’t make up their own minds. We’ve seen no indication of that whatsoever in the comic.
Danny’s argument is dumb and sorta-sexist, but the point is that Joe flipped out before he ever heard the argument, in yesterday’s strip. Even in the first panel of today’s, we can see Joe is flabbergasted by the very idea of someone not wanting a casual bang. It’s not terribly open-minded.
no he is questioning the basis on which danny made that decision, and calling him a hypocrite for trying to protect girls from their own decisions. He is also taking Danny at face value, whereas it seem s like Danny is projecting his own worries about the decision to have casual sex onto Billy. So Danny probobly didnt want to himself in that moment, but he convinced himself he was doing it for Billy instead
Ah, but the thing that Danny’s saying that he’s taking at face value? Danny is only saying that because Joe started the argument–which he did because Danny turned down sex.
“Danny would rather force his own beliefs and morals on others in any given situation.”
wait a second, are you saying that declining to go along with someone else’s desires is equivalent to “forcing” them to go along with yours? That’s kind of rape-y logic, there. It’s right up there with a KKK member saying “You’re refusing to tolerate my intolerance, so you’re the REAL intolerant one!” in terms of tortuousness.
no, declining casual sex is a personal decision. Declining in order to protect Billy, despite a personal desire to do it, especially given no information on Billy’s beliefs is forcing your morals and beliefs onto someone else. However, he is really guilty of this in reference to forcing his beliefs on Joe all the time.
I am fairly certain that if a female character were to decline an offer of sex for any reason whatsoever, and a reader were to refer to that as “forcing her beliefs” on a potential partner, that reader would be immediately pounced on for saying it, and rightly so. The whole point of this strip is “double standards are bad”, so perhaps we should avoid them in the comments.
…If they’re his beliefs, then maybe those beliefs are the real reason he did it? We know Joe wouldn’t have accepted that answer, so isn’t it entirely likely that Danny’s grasping for something that he thought Joe *would* accept?
See, I would agree with this if they had known each other for more than 5 minutes. Or even if they hadn’t, but she’d made it clear from the beginning that she intended to get horizontal with a stranger.
Only because self proclaimed “nice guys” usually aren’t. Then again, that applies to most self proclaimed descriptions. True nice guys are pretty cool people who don’t have to declare their positive traits all the time.
*’personally avoid using’
*’referring’, while we’re at it.
Normally ‘nice guy’ is used as a relative term – those males who claim that they are ‘a nice guy’ generally spend time with guys who are definitely not ‘nice guys’, so they feel the need to indicate that they are different. This means, however, that ‘nice guys’ are often the people who spend time with ‘not nice guys’, and that means that they’re probably not as nice as they think they are anyway.
…
That’s purely speculation. I’ve never heard anyone use the phrase ‘nice guy’ in real life, ever. But what I said sounds believable and it’s on the internet now, so it must be true.
It’s not because nice guys usually aren’t. It’s because “he’s a nice guy” is like “she’s got a good personality” – the phrase is widely used in reference to all the other things the guy isn’t. Usually on the attractiveness, manliness, or sexiness fronts.
Yesterday I believed Danny was just lying in desperation to hold onto the illusion of his integrity (ironically). Now I believe him. I know self-sabotaging low self-esteem all too well.
Ummm why is Joe making sense? could it be that we have entered the twilight zone?
You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension: a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You’re moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You’ve just crossed over into… the Twilight Zone.
Picture this … 2012 or 10 this comic moves very slow… the story you are about to hear takes place in a parallel universe, called the walkyverse a supposedly nice guy is offered casual sex refuses he seemingly misogynistic friend berates but rather then offer some half brain argument about how orgasms are mroe important then a taking advantage of girl instead he presents well founded rational argument, truly madness.
That makes the most sense to me given his actions. He probably feels that sleeping with her would be admitting his old girlfriend is gone and he doesn’t want to admit that yet. Because her reactions don’t even slightly lead to being taken advantage of. He hit on her, she called him on it. He says sorry and talks about how she is out of his reach. She decides to get it on.
If Danny didn’t want to have sex at all just ’cause he didn’t want to, then that’s fine. If he didn’t want to have sex because he’s not into random hookups, that’s fine too. If he didn’t want to have sex with her because it’s like “protecting” her or something, then he’s just an idiot.
See? See? Sometimes Natural Selection DOES take it’s course for Human Beings, even if only for a little while.
Should Danny change his mind and find Billie still up for Danny-brand Codependant Bologna Loaf, both may forget to consider birth control-related precautions…and thus Natural Selection Screws the Pooch for the Human Race once again.
Maybe he foolishly thought this excuse would get Joe off his back more easily than “I just didn’t want to have sex with that person at that time, for my own reasons”. To be fair, I can’t imagine Joe responding well to that, either
On one hand, he kind of was- he had just appealed to her fleeing sense of self-importance from high school that she’s slowly being forced to accept means nothing in college.
On the other hand, he didn’t actually KNOW that, so it’s not like he could actually use it as a defense.
A sober(unusual I know) woman who is of age being able to take risks and make her own decisions about sex without a man to help her make the right choice?
I seem to recall it’s actually been a source of disappointment a couple times when I discovered that I wouldn’t be able to find the cool looking character in a show or comic somewhere.
That doesn’t describe Billie, which is the crux of the matter. She hasn’t really been demonstrated as the most clear-headed, stable individual.
Not to mention, someone’s unstable enough to fuck a stranger for no reason, they miiiight just be unstable enough to decide to get them in trouble for it later.
So either Danny has shades of Nice Guy Syndrome, or he doesn’t want casual sex with strangers (even if he “wants” it) and is getting defensive and babbling a bit randomly instead of speaking coherently about it.
Other characters in the comic seem to be able to pick up on it pretty quick, I don’t think we need credit Danny with an unusual degree of empathy to think he could have too.
You mean journalistic ethics? I’m not sure. I don’t think she was doing it to get the story. I think she just fell for Danny’s (unintentional) smooth talk.
That last panel is vaguely reminiscent of the first couple of Roomies! comics. It’s not the exact same topic, but the principle is the same–Danny is thinking ahead, Joe is thinking in the moment. It’s done a lot more subtly here, and I like the twist of Joe chewing Danny out this time.
I don’t agree with either of them, incidentally. Or rather I think they’re both right for the wrong reasons. I won’t explain now because I’m always horribly incoherent this time of night. Tune in later.
It’s all well and good to not be into the whole casual sex thing. I mean, sex is a big deal, and it’s your perogative whether or not you wanna go about doing the do all willy-nilly.
At the same time, though, I think Danny’s reasoning is a bit off. He was in no way taking advantage of the situation. She instigated it, and even set down some ground rules as to how it was going to go down. Billie was of sound mind and body (I’ll say! BAM!) and was in the perfect state to make such decisions.
So, way to stick to yer guns, I guess, but all you’re really doing is screwing yourself over, man.
Again, this is a girl who was there to interview you and totally rebuffed your clumsy attempt at hitting on you. Then you see her face crumble when you ask if she was a cheerleader, at which point she flings herself at you.
How is this not grounds to think that maybe she was making a bad decision and you might be taking advantage of her emotional vulnerability?
It’s not that there aren’t plenty of good reasons not to bone Billie. Heck, the lack of a reason to bone her is sufficient reason not to. When asked why he didn’t bone her he listed a reason that was grounded in some very questionable attitudes though, which is telling.
In point of fact Danny could’ve listed a million and one great reasons why he didn’t bone her. “She smelled funny” “She took off her glasses and that killed my erection” “I had homework” “I’m not really into casual sex” “Things were moving quickly and I became uncomfortable” “I wasn’t in the mood” “Kingdoms of Amalur finished installing” the list goes on forever.
I don’t know that it is self-sabotage. Quite the opposite, in fact. There are too many ways in which jumping on somebody who you just met who throws herself at you is simply a bad risk. Anything from cooties to a bad case of won’t-go-away syndrome to an angry boyfriend coming after you for retribution. Better to know someone before you ‘know’ someone, you know?
Yes, I think so. Joe is right to call BS on Danny’s excuse of second-guessing what she wanted. But in the end he still shouldn’t have ended up in her end right away.
I can’t really say. I mean, the reason seems legit. I mean, if a hot stranger comes in you room for an interview and then said stranger suddenly want to “get it on”, would you stop said stranger? I mean, this isn’t harem anime where girls just throw their bodies for some poor shumck. But on the other hand, his reason does have it’s fallacies.
Not intentional. I draw DoA weeks ahead and SP! on the seat of my pants, and it’s always kind of a little unnerving when they happen to line up thematically.
Joe has a point, but he is still scolding Danny for not wanting sex. Men have as much right not to engage in sex as women do.
I rather think that Danny actually believes Joe’s credo of “all men want all sex, all the time” and he’s making excuses of why he doesn’t want to bed a woman he just met.
I’d agree, but Danny didn’t seem against it. I know it’s hard to accept that Joe’s right, but he is. Hell has frozen over, and Joe is right. On the other hand, Billie did say “before I change my mind”, which kind of gives Danny some credence in not doing the deed.
Honestly, I was thinking the same thing. I guess there’s a chance this would be something Billie’d regret later, but I really doubt she’s the type who worries much about that sort of thing – and more power to her for that. If anything, it seems like a worse experience for her to throw herself at a guy and get REJECTED because he believes he knows what’s better for her more than she does.
Joe continues to be surprisingly astute (well, sometimes, anyway).
In a vacuum, Joe has a very good point. Thing is, Billie’s “shut up before I change my mind” actually gives Danny’s objection some credibility. It seems like she already knew she was going to regret it later. There’s nothing wrong with Danny not wanting to be that guy when that happens.
Joe doesn’t know about that, so its impact on Danny’s reasoning has no effect on whether Joe’s logic makes sense. Now, the fact that he’s not giving Danny much of a chance to tell him…
You’re correct. However, I was pointing this out for the benefit of commenters who are bashing “nice guys” like Danny for being passive-aggressive misogynists, and to play Devil’s advocate for Danny’s “mistake” of missing out on some no-strings nookie. Everyone is taking Joe’s side, but Danny’s decision has merit too.
That said, knowing what I know now, I would totally have tapped that.
I was responding specifically to Samlh’s statement about not agreeing with Joe after remembering that fact.
That said, I’ve changed my mind. The fact that Joe doesn’t know that is entirely his own fault. Instead of asking Danny why he thought Billie would regret it later, he listed three potential reasons and when Danny denied all three he decided that there could not possibly be any other reason, whereas we know that Danny actually has a whole lot of evidence to believe it–“She literally told me she was going to regret it later” being only the most significant piece.
No. If a monk ever says no to a woman, he should take a knife and slice down his own penile tissue in penitence, for committing an act tantamount to abuse. Unless it genuinely was for her own good, e.g., if she was drunk.
I think Joe will try and talk Danny into going over and apologizing to Billie for his actions and following the talk up with sex. If Joe can’t get Danny to do this, Joe will go over and apologize for him.
With his penis.
Having more or less BEEN Danny in this situation before, with the benefit of 10 years of hindsight I must say that I cannot endorse Joe’s point of view hard enough.
As in, I support what he’s saying deeply. To the hilt. All the way. The whole nine inches. etc.
Obviously Joe is right about lots of things, or he wouldn’t have gotten into college in the first place. And he manages social interaction well enough to get a lot of sex. I think he only goes seriously wrong in that he seems to feel that sex is enough. Well, he’s young. Maybe he’ll fall in love someday and realize what he’s been missing.
I’m leaning towards Danny’s side. Trading sex for compliments is not a healthy attitude, because compliments should be freely given – to encourage Billie would have reinforced the idea, for Billie, that her value as a person is tied up with her willingness to hand out sexual favours. Not a good thing to reinforce. Danny prevented this by making it clear that the compliments were freely given, which must have made Billie feel a lot better about herself and probably won him a new friend.
Danny wouldn’t be ‘taking advantage’ in the traditional sense – Billie knew what she wanted. However, I think that it still could have been considered ‘taking advantage’ in that he would have been getting his pleasure at Billie’s expense.
Sure, Billie knows whether she wants to have sex or not. But Danny has every right to refuse, and caring about Billie is a good reason to do so.
The reason I’m leaning towards Danny’s side, not entirely on it, is that I’m not sure that he’s consciously thought about this angle.
Heres an idea, why dont we wait to make judgments on Dannys action till we find out exactly what happened in there. Maybe there is a good reason for what Danny said that we dont know about (yet)
There are plenty of good reasons for what Danny said that we do know about, ranging from the fact that she rapidly changed her mind, clearly didn’t know what she wanted, appeared to be somewhat crazy, and literally told him that she was going to change her mind again if they didn’t start immediately.
Joe doesn’t know these things, so it doesn’t have an impact on his reasoning… but he didn’t let Danny tell him, either.
Well then: go ahead and decide for yourself what you want; let the other person decide for themselves what they want; but don’t ever think that you know what the other person wants better than they do. Which is where Danny went wrong here, assuming he’s right about why he did it.
But Danny did have a good idea of what Billie wanted because she clearly said “shut up before I change my mind”. That statement put the idea that Billie hasn’t considered regrets yet and might change her mind after having done the deed. I don’t think Danny was thinking he knew what the other person wants better than they do, Danny was only thinking he gave her the chance to change her mind rather than not.
Another possibility that I don’t think anyone’s mentioned yet: Has this happened to Danny before? I mean, has he slept with a girl who thought she was ready for it, only to be blamed later for what turned out to be a mistake?
There are definitely people who will blame their partners for their own bad choices or confusion. If Danny had slept with one, his hesitation now would be understandable.
Otherwise, Danny is grasping at straws, and I seriously hope he doesn’t actually believe what he’s saying.
Well, while that’s certainly possible, considering his incredibly devoted relationship to Dorothy that only ended a few days ago that I assume lasted a few years, unless he got an INCREDIBLY early start, I think it’s fairly safe to say he hasn’t been in this situation before.
Unlikely. One of Danny’s traits in Roomies was that he was very often a self-righteous jackass. While that’s been greatly toned down, I sincerely doubt Willis has ditched it entirely.
Naw, Joe’s logic is fine. Even if Danny’s stated reasons are baldfaced lies, that doesn’t change the fact that Joe’s logic, based on the assumption of their truth, is quite correct.
No, because even if that was Danny’s reasoning, which I don’t think it was… he actually did have plenty of reasons to think that Billie would regret it later. Joe doesn’t know about them, but that’s because instead of asking “Why do you think that?” he rattled off three potential reasons as if they were the only possibilities.
So based on the facts he has and the values we know he has, his logic is sound. But he denied himself access to those facts.
Also, if he hadn’t started the argument in the first place on the basis that Danny, like himself, values sex above all else, than Danny would not have given that reasoning. He was ignoring most of Danny’s valid reasons for turning Billie down from the start.
Danny needs to admit that he didn’t want to have sex with someone he just met, even if she was hot, and that he and Joe will have to agree to disagree on whether there is anything wrong with that.
That’d require about a years worth of personal growth for both of them. I’m pretty young but I don’t think I’ll make it out the other end of that story arc.
I’m proud, this actually boils down to some complex issues on gender, sexuality, and inequality. Kudos DoA for talking about the same stuff we’re discussing in my Gender class tonight 🙂
If Willis were a novelist instead of a webcartoonist, his novels would become class reading material for gender classes and other classes that examine cultural norms.
Here’s hoping the medium of the webcomic someday attains scholastic legitimacy.
She did say “Now shut up before I change my mind,” which clearly means she suspects she’ll change her mind about the matter, and her emotional state did swing dramatically in response to something that wouldn’t typically cause that strong of a change in emotional state, suggesting that she has some emotional trouble.
Joe’s jumping to conclusions when he should know there are more factors than the ones he’s thinking about.
I just realised something; what happened to Danny back in the strip Eye Contact is in essence the ‘nice guy’s’ wet dream.
The ‘nice guy’s wet dream’ being that just by saying a few nice complements to a girl normally out of their league, she will reward them with becoming their girlfriend and sex.
Nothing wrong with a little enthusiastic consent. Geez Joe, you’re acting like it’s a crime for a guy not to stick it into anything that doesn’t explicitly say no.
Um, she jumped him, told him she would be on top, and said yes when he asked if it was really happening. How much more enthusiastic do you want her to be?
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DANNO, THINK OF ALTERNATE UNIVERSE DJ WHO WANTS TO BE CONCEIVED
waitno
Drunk maybe.
But she’s probably always got some alcohol in her system
I thought she she always had some blood in her alcoholstream.
Not always, but more often than not. I think.
Joe is so very correct it hurts my face.
I think you mean it hurts your FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE
FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!
Willis, you’ve ruined all of our FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACES with that meme.
-AAAAAAAAACE F-?
I wish I had enough FAAAAAAAITH to believe this meme will stop anytime soon.
Maybe it will FAAAAAAAAADE away?
You cannot always fight FAAAAAAATE!
You can try, but you’ll FAAAAAAAAIL!
FAAAAAAAAAAAACE it the meme is here to stay.
FUUUUUUUUUUU-
I got nothing.
-something witty about femurs, or your mom, or a nickle-
Have to go with the NIIIIIIIIIIIICKLE
I hate this meme so very, very much. At least it seems it’s typically getting confined to just one thread these days. Too bad it’s usually a thread near the top of the comments and so is one of the first I see. -_-
You needn’t worry. Joe is never right. Danny has no insight at ALL about why Billie suddenly switched gears that fast. That’s indicative of a greater issue beyond crying, drunk, or underage. One that implies he MAY have been taking advantage of her.
Also Joe is a pig and I will rationalize any reason away for the the chance to say he’s wrong. If he was my roommate I’d have had coins on his eyes before the third day.
“Coins in his eyes before the third day”. Really? Nothing like reading something you wrote a while back and being amazed you worded it like that. Must have just watched Boondock Saints or something.
OW! Joe’s logic hit me in the head.
At least I hope it was his logic.
Logic is in the eye of the magician.
It was. Joe’s logic lives in his pants.
Oh you mean his magic lap right? 😀
So you are saying the magician is in Joe’s pants?
For his next trick he will pull an snake out of Joe’s pants!
That could get awkward. Since Danny doesn’t see the magician, if all he sees is Joe’s snake come flying out of his pants he may get the wrong idea.
But at least we know he’s too much of a gentleman to take advantage of Joe should that occur.
Tell me sir…Are THESE your balls?
Of course not. Mine are right… Hey! How’d you do that?
All of you get awards for that.
Bravo! Bravo! Encore! Encore!
Joe’s thoughts in the 3rd panel are exactly what I was thinking. Funny, I never thought I would agree with Joe on something…
Maybe theres a lesson to be learned here. Maybe we all have a little joe in us.
Maybe we want a little Joe in all of us.
Ladies.
I rather not have Joe’s little Joe inside of me. 😛
Why would I want to eat Michael Landon?
It’s your personal Rule 36 maybe?
Vore? Good god, no. I’m a gentle giant.
It’s best to drop that, you don’t know where its been.
Sure we do. Everywhere.
Actually I don’t think it’s all that weird to agree with Joe here, sure he is a perv but he honestly seems to think of sex as something that should be fun for both parties. I’m also sure that he always lets the girl know it means nothing more then fun to him.
I’m with joe. He should have accepted that poon.
I agree with what your saying but I have to disagree with it on principle. Like the Catholic Church.
I’m confused. Are you saying that the Catholic Church should have accepted that poon?
Or maybe disagreeing with the Catholic Church in principle?
You’re the Archbishop now Mkvenner?
Congratulations are in order.
for joining the Order, congratulations are in order.
However, after joining the Order, you will be come a target of Dark Wizards everywhere.
Joe’s problem is that he can’t understand why he doesn’t simply want a casual bang as opposed to a meaningful relationship. Danny’s problem is that the former is easier to find than the latter. And a problem they share is that they are in a webcomic where drama is king.
Yes there is that, but I do agree with Joe that a girl who is not drunk emotionally distraught or underage is perfectly capable of making a decision about having casual sex. Joe is accusing Danny of holding a double standard. Which in this case Danny was assuming that he was taking advantage of her, implying true that girls who have emotionally distraught, which is not true.
True Billie was probably distraught but Danny had no way of knowing that.
wow my poor grammar amazes and incoherent thought pattern amazes me some times okay… Let me re-write this into form that everyone can understand well maybe not but it will be more clearer then what is written above. Joe is accusing Danny of holding a double standard assuming that women who have casually have sex are emotionally distraught yet men are perfectly capable of separating emotions from sex. Therefore it is wrong to have casual sex with a women if she initiates it because you may be taking advantage of her.
Women are perfectly capable of having casual sex if they want to that they can separate emotion from sex.
Billie may have been emotionally distraught but Danny did not know that perhaps she was just aroused by Danny.
The other conclusion i get from this is Danny has low self esteem because he assumes Billie would never have sex with him unless she had emotional issues.
Don’t forget that people can have casual sex without separating emotions from it. The emotion just doesn’t have to be romantic tru-luv. But would Danny still consider it to be taking advantage of someone who wanted sex for celebration, consolation, or just friendly togetherness? We see how he reacts to introduction sex.
Ive never heard friendly togetherness sex go well with afterwards.
True, especially when you say it like that. I just couldn’t think of a more polite way of saying FWB.
The I suspect it wasn’t really friendly togetherness sex . . .
A lot of people (okay, guys) will pretend to be into
the friendly sex with a someone they a carrying a
serious torch for. This always ends badly.
of course it does. better than any other kind save relationship sex
Introduction sex?
My thoughts exactly.
But Joe doesn’t think that *Danny* had the right to make a decision about casual sex.
But the thing is, Danny didn’t turn her down because he wasn’t into it (which was perfectly within his rights). He totally was into it. He turned her down because he thought she might later regret it.
And I have to agree with Joe. If she wasn’t underage, upset, or drunk, then where does Danny get off saying that he knows better than her whether or not she wants to do it? Because basically Danny’s saying that, while he has no reason to think that her judgement may be impaired, she still isn’t capable of making rational decisions about who she wants to have sex with.
And frankly, that’s insulting.
Well… (A) he’s probably not being totally honest about that and (2) she literally told him she didn’t really think she wanted it…
But I was actually referring to Joe’s demanding an explanation for Danny saying “No” that lead to him saying stuff to make Joe shut up.
But Danny didn’t make a decision about casual sex. Danny made a decision FOR BILLIE about casual sex. In her “best interest” no doubt.
Joe’s completely correct. Danny’s actions are not in question, his reasoning is. And his reasoning is condescending bullshit 😀
It was Danny’s actions that Joe questioned in the first place.
But we, the audience, KNOW that Billie is indeed emotionally unbalanced. Is it completely implausible that Danny picked up on that?
It’s not implausible, but it’s most likely not what happened. Was she acting particularly upset? Does he have any of her “normal” behaviour to compare?
(For that matter, do we?)
And most relevantly, if he did catch some subtle hint, he hasn’t told this to Joe. So far, he seems to be in the right on all counts.
Of course, Danny might not realize that he picked up on it. If he’s got an intuitive sense for these things, well…
Yeah, he might not have realized it. Besides, Billie was making a sad sort of face right before she *jumped him with no warning*. That doesn’t seem like casual no-strings sex to me, that seems like sudden emotional imbalance. I don’t think it’s a double standard of Danny’s to decide that she might regret it later on. Casual sex is if two people are hanging out being friendly and one thing leads to another. I’ve never seen someone just randomly jump someone.
Because saying “Joe, I declined to have sex with this woman because she might be crazy” would be the right thing to say in this situation. We should ALWAYS tell annoying roommates our snap judgements of people, that can’t possibly go wrong.
I think you and I may have different definitions of “subtle”.
It’s like the first panel where Joe asks if Danny just didn’t want a casual bang and Danny responds by saying that he did in fact want one and then listing a reason other than lack of desire for his refusal to partake. If Danny just doesn’t want casual sex then I can’t really blame Joe for not understanding why. Don’t see how that’s a problem of his.
Except Joe asks Danny that as an accusation.
Besides, with sex there are different types of “want to.” Danny follows that up by saying “I’m not *dead*!” implying that he’s talking about physical desire. Choosing to have casual sex with a pushy stranger does not necessarily follow from that want.
I get that. Just saying Joe’s not a mind reader. Hardly a failing on his part that he doesn’t understand why Danny doesn’t want that. Hell, I suspect Danny himself might not fully understand the reasons behind his own attitudes and preferences, or even his own actions in the past half hour.
If Danny had clearly explained himself and Joe couldn’t understand then that would be a problem on his end. As is it sounds like he’s being blamed for not knowing information that hasn’t been made available to him.
See, it really depends on what part of the country you’re in. I’m in The Bible Belt see, and although I’m good looking, intelligent, and at least moderately humble I’ve never found myself in a situation where a casual bang would be probable without putting out an immense amount of effort to get it.
Except in the panels it’s clear that Danny did want the casual sex but was freaked that a girl of sound mind and body would regret it later since you know in his world girls are pure white angels who never want casual sex.
Hence Joe’s whole point of Danny being a dick. In fact Joe is a better person than Danny. Danny would rather force his own beliefs and morals on others in any given situation. Joe believes in letting each person making up their own damn mind and never really takes advantage of anyone even if he may joke about it now and then.
Joe is a good guy. *gasp*
Joe only believes that *women* should be able to make up their own minds.
The fact that Danny, a man, chose differently than Joe would have is what started the argument.
There’s a difference between thinking that Danny has no right to make up his own mind and pointing out that Danny turned down sex for really stupid and borderline misogynistic reasons.
Also, I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that Joe thinks men as a whole can’t make up their own minds. We’ve seen no indication of that whatsoever in the comic.
Danny’s argument is dumb and sorta-sexist, but the point is that Joe flipped out before he ever heard the argument, in yesterday’s strip. Even in the first panel of today’s, we can see Joe is flabbergasted by the very idea of someone not wanting a casual bang. It’s not terribly open-minded.
no he is questioning the basis on which danny made that decision, and calling him a hypocrite for trying to protect girls from their own decisions. He is also taking Danny at face value, whereas it seem s like Danny is projecting his own worries about the decision to have casual sex onto Billy. So Danny probobly didnt want to himself in that moment, but he convinced himself he was doing it for Billy instead
Ah, but the thing that Danny’s saying that he’s taking at face value? Danny is only saying that because Joe started the argument–which he did because Danny turned down sex.
“Danny would rather force his own beliefs and morals on others in any given situation.”
wait a second, are you saying that declining to go along with someone else’s desires is equivalent to “forcing” them to go along with yours? That’s kind of rape-y logic, there. It’s right up there with a KKK member saying “You’re refusing to tolerate my intolerance, so you’re the REAL intolerant one!” in terms of tortuousness.
no, declining casual sex is a personal decision. Declining in order to protect Billy, despite a personal desire to do it, especially given no information on Billy’s beliefs is forcing your morals and beliefs onto someone else. However, he is really guilty of this in reference to forcing his beliefs on Joe all the time.
I am fairly certain that if a female character were to decline an offer of sex for any reason whatsoever, and a reader were to refer to that as “forcing her beliefs” on a potential partner, that reader would be immediately pounced on for saying it, and rightly so. The whole point of this strip is “double standards are bad”, so perhaps we should avoid them in the comments.
…If they’re his beliefs, then maybe those beliefs are the real reason he did it? We know Joe wouldn’t have accepted that answer, so isn’t it entirely likely that Danny’s grasping for something that he thought Joe *would* accept?
Truth in comics. Funny how many ‘nice guys’ are actually misogynist idiots.
You know, not all nice guys are actually misogynist idiots.
Some are just idiots!
No but the ones who complain the loudest about it, sadly, often are the worst.
Every time a dude complains about being a nice guy and how he doesn’t get a chick because of it, I want to punch him in the face.
nnNO! Bad Aizat! Read post again!
See, I would agree with this if they had known each other for more than 5 minutes. Or even if they hadn’t, but she’d made it clear from the beginning that she intended to get horizontal with a stranger.
The term ‘nice guy’ is practically an epithet these days.
Only because self proclaimed “nice guys” usually aren’t. Then again, that applies to most self proclaimed descriptions. True nice guys are pretty cool people who don’t have to declare their positive traits all the time.
I personally using the term nice-guy when I am refering to a decent guy as the meaning of the words ‘nice-guy’ is just too tainted nowadays.
*’personally avoid using’
*’referring’, while we’re at it.
Normally ‘nice guy’ is used as a relative term – those males who claim that they are ‘a nice guy’ generally spend time with guys who are definitely not ‘nice guys’, so they feel the need to indicate that they are different. This means, however, that ‘nice guys’ are often the people who spend time with ‘not nice guys’, and that means that they’re probably not as nice as they think they are anyway.
…
That’s purely speculation. I’ve never heard anyone use the phrase ‘nice guy’ in real life, ever. But what I said sounds believable and it’s on the internet now, so it must be true.
I hate it when I forget to add a key word when posting a message, I don’t do it too often but what can I say, shit happens.
This is why I wish we can edit our comments for at least the first 5 minutes or so.
It’s not because nice guys usually aren’t. It’s because “he’s a nice guy” is like “she’s got a good personality” – the phrase is widely used in reference to all the other things the guy isn’t. Usually on the attractiveness, manliness, or sexiness fronts.
good point
Yesterday I believed Danny was just lying in desperation to hold onto the illusion of his integrity (ironically). Now I believe him. I know self-sabotaging low self-esteem all too well.
Ummm why is Joe making sense? could it be that we have entered the twilight zone?
You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension: a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You’re moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You’ve just crossed over into… the Twilight Zone.
Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do…
Picture this … 2012 or 10 this comic moves very slow… the story you are about to hear takes place in a parallel universe, called the walkyverse a supposedly nice guy is offered casual sex refuses he seemingly misogynistic friend berates but rather then offer some half brain argument about how orgasms are mroe important then a taking advantage of girl instead he presents well founded rational argument, truly madness.
+1 Like
Yay! You don’t often see stuff almost explicitly about Nice Guy Syndrome in comics.
I’m on the edge of my seat here!
Well, it turns out Danny is noble. Not many guys are noble these days.
Upon rereading the comic, I found that Danny is either stuck in 50’s or just not ready for it.
At the moment, I’m going with ‘Just not ready for it, and won’t admit it, leading to dodgy half-thought-out statements’.
That makes the most sense to me given his actions. He probably feels that sleeping with her would be admitting his old girlfriend is gone and he doesn’t want to admit that yet. Because her reactions don’t even slightly lead to being taken advantage of. He hit on her, she called him on it. He says sorry and talks about how she is out of his reach. She decides to get it on.
yup
He wasn’t taking advantage of her in the least. Joe is completely correct.
If Danny didn’t want to have sex at all just ’cause he didn’t want to, then that’s fine. If he didn’t want to have sex because he’s not into random hookups, that’s fine too. If he didn’t want to have sex with her because it’s like “protecting” her or something, then he’s just an idiot.
Well, it did happen too fast for him but who can actually tell.
See? See? Sometimes Natural Selection DOES take it’s course for Human Beings, even if only for a little while.
Should Danny change his mind and find Billie still up for Danny-brand Codependant Bologna Loaf, both may forget to consider birth control-related precautions…and thus Natural Selection Screws the Pooch for the Human Race once again.
Maybe he foolishly thought this excuse would get Joe off his back more easily than “I just didn’t want to have sex with that person at that time, for my own reasons”. To be fair, I can’t imagine Joe responding well to that, either
On one hand, he kind of was- he had just appealed to her fleeing sense of self-importance from high school that she’s slowly being forced to accept means nothing in college.
On the other hand, he didn’t actually KNOW that, so it’s not like he could actually use it as a defense.
A sober(unusual I know) woman who is of age being able to take risks and make her own decisions about sex without a man to help her make the right choice?
Does a woman like that even exist?
Danny sure doesn’t think so.
Well, there are some guys who are still stuck in the 50’s.
Okay, I’ll bite; who’s the gravatar this time?
It’s an original character this time, I haven’t thought of a name yet.
How about Lisa Stintson?
WHO IS THAT??
The name of your current gravatar. Do you like it?
C’mon Plas, tell me do you like the name?
Not bad, but I like slightly more exotic names for my female gravs.
GASP. An original character in a Plasma gravatar! INCONCEIVABLE!
It’s bound to happen sooner or later.
Silly Kerny, I have used a few original gravs before, some of them repeatedly. 😀
Okay, but I never knew about them.
Oh well…
The more you know!
I seem to recall it’s actually been a source of disappointment a couple times when I discovered that I wouldn’t be able to find the cool looking character in a show or comic somewhere.
This new grav I am now using as of this post is Steve Job’s young opposite-sex clone.
Neato!
“I don’t think that word means what you think it means.”
That doesn’t describe Billie, which is the crux of the matter. She hasn’t really been demonstrated as the most clear-headed, stable individual.
Not to mention, someone’s unstable enough to fuck a stranger for no reason, they miiiight just be unstable enough to decide to get them in trouble for it later.
But did he know that about Billie?
Billie did provide some mood whiplash. Was that enough?
So either Danny has shades of Nice Guy Syndrome, or he doesn’t want casual sex with strangers (even if he “wants” it) and is getting defensive and babbling a bit randomly instead of speaking coherently about it.
He’s speaking to Joe, and also upset, either of which explains that last part.
Other characters in the comic seem to be able to pick up on it pretty quick, I don’t think we need credit Danny with an unusual degree of empathy to think he could have too.
Aaaaand that was intended as a new comment, not a response to this. WTH, internets.
Also it would been a huge violation of ethics.
You mean journalistic ethics? I’m not sure. I don’t think she was doing it to get the story. I think she just fell for Danny’s (unintentional) smooth talk.
Wait, Joe has a point? JOE has a point?
Y’know, I always thought the end of the world would be a bit flashier.
Joe having a point is normal for him, the weird thing is that it’s not in his pants for once.
I thought of that joke the moment I posted the above.
Ya know some people would inevitably run out of witty puns but you continue to surprise us.
I applaud your mastery puns.
Truly you are artist Plasma Mongoose.
I do also have my off days too when it comes to commenting but I try to be amusing even if it isn’t always original.
That last panel is vaguely reminiscent of the first couple of Roomies! comics. It’s not the exact same topic, but the principle is the same–Danny is thinking ahead, Joe is thinking in the moment. It’s done a lot more subtly here, and I like the twist of Joe chewing Danny out this time.
I don’t agree with either of them, incidentally. Or rather I think they’re both right for the wrong reasons. I won’t explain now because I’m always horribly incoherent this time of night. Tune in later.
It all comes down to WHY he didn’t take up Billie’s offer.
Heck, I might do the same thing if I was in Danny’s position albeit for a different reason.
I’m pretty sure I would. Not for the BS reason he cites, just because I don’t see how sex with someone I hardly know could have any emotional depth.
…I suddenly have crazy respect for Joe. If every voracious poon-hound thought like that, the world would be a pretty sexy place.
Ehh, I’m sort of on the fence about this.
It’s all well and good to not be into the whole casual sex thing. I mean, sex is a big deal, and it’s your perogative whether or not you wanna go about doing the do all willy-nilly.
At the same time, though, I think Danny’s reasoning is a bit off. He was in no way taking advantage of the situation. She instigated it, and even set down some ground rules as to how it was going to go down. Billie was of sound mind and body (I’ll say! BAM!) and was in the perfect state to make such decisions.
So, way to stick to yer guns, I guess, but all you’re really doing is screwing yourself over, man.
As opposed to, y’know, BILLIE screwing you over.
Wakka wakka.
I’d like to high five you over the sound mind and body comment.
I couldn’t have said it better myself… I would have tried but you know…
Again, this is a girl who was there to interview you and totally rebuffed your clumsy attempt at hitting on you. Then you see her face crumble when you ask if she was a cheerleader, at which point she flings herself at you.
How is this not grounds to think that maybe she was making a bad decision and you might be taking advantage of her emotional vulnerability?
And Danny gets Hook-Up Advice 101 from Joe.
Well, what better way to learn about hooking up than learning it from the master?
So Joe is James Bond?
just with different kinds of guns and gadgets to get the job done.
Anyone else notice the filename is 2012-02-15-tattoo.png?
aaaahfhaogpffio look at my avatar
Yeah well she probably had that exact expression on her face in the recent past 🙂
How about? She was supposed to be working instead of boning? XD
Joe does have a point on the other stuff though XD
It’s not that there aren’t plenty of good reasons not to bone Billie. Heck, the lack of a reason to bone her is sufficient reason not to. When asked why he didn’t bone her he listed a reason that was grounded in some very questionable attitudes though, which is telling.
In point of fact Danny could’ve listed a million and one great reasons why he didn’t bone her. “She smelled funny” “She took off her glasses and that killed my erection” “I had homework” “I’m not really into casual sex” “Things were moving quickly and I became uncomfortable” “I wasn’t in the mood” “Kingdoms of Amalur finished installing” the list goes on forever.
Yeah, but Danny wasn’t necessarily citing his real reasons. He was trying to get Joe to shut up. Possibly a significant difference.
Also, it happened very quickly. He probably reacted instinctively and may now be trying to gather his actual thoughts.
Using the excuse, “My video game finished uploading.” to get out of sex is an excuse guaranteed to peg that person as a LOSER.
true, true.
I don’t know that it is self-sabotage. Quite the opposite, in fact. There are too many ways in which jumping on somebody who you just met who throws herself at you is simply a bad risk. Anything from cooties to a bad case of won’t-go-away syndrome to an angry boyfriend coming after you for retribution. Better to know someone before you ‘know’ someone, you know?
So, in other words, Danny made the right decision, but for the wrong reasons.
Yes, I think so. Joe is right to call BS on Danny’s excuse of second-guessing what she wanted. But in the end he still shouldn’t have ended up in her end right away.
I can’t really say. I mean, the reason seems legit. I mean, if a hot stranger comes in you room for an interview and then said stranger suddenly want to “get it on”, would you stop said stranger? I mean, this isn’t harem anime where girls just throw their bodies for some poor shumck. But on the other hand, his reason does have it’s fallacies.
This was the best possible strip to have after yesterday’s Shortpacked! I feel like this was intentional, and thus, bravo Willis.
And even if not intentional, still genius.
Not intentional. I draw DoA weeks ahead and SP! on the seat of my pants, and it’s always kind of a little unnerving when they happen to line up thematically.
Joe has a point, but he is still scolding Danny for not wanting sex. Men have as much right not to engage in sex as women do.
I rather think that Danny actually believes Joe’s credo of “all men want all sex, all the time” and he’s making excuses of why he doesn’t want to bed a woman he just met.
I think that’s probably a pretty astute reading!
I’d agree, but Danny didn’t seem against it. I know it’s hard to accept that Joe’s right, but he is. Hell has frozen over, and Joe is right. On the other hand, Billie did say “before I change my mind”, which kind of gives Danny some credence in not doing the deed.
So Joe is a believer in the All Men Are Perverts trope.
I’m the believer of “Not All Men Are Perverts.” It’s not a trope…..yet.
Honestly, I was thinking the same thing. I guess there’s a chance this would be something Billie’d regret later, but I really doubt she’s the type who worries much about that sort of thing – and more power to her for that. If anything, it seems like a worse experience for her to throw herself at a guy and get REJECTED because he believes he knows what’s better for her more than she does.
Joe continues to be surprisingly astute (well, sometimes, anyway).
Good point about Billie there, so I guessing that the nexct time we see Billie, she will be boozing up big-time.
In a vacuum, Joe has a very good point. Thing is, Billie’s “shut up before I change my mind” actually gives Danny’s objection some credibility. It seems like she already knew she was going to regret it later. There’s nothing wrong with Danny not wanting to be that guy when that happens.
Ah, indeed, I hadn’t remembered that. Thus I am shown the perils of webcomic time. 🙂 I was on the verge of agreeing with Joe until you reminded me.
Joe doesn’t know about that, so its impact on Danny’s reasoning has no effect on whether Joe’s logic makes sense. Now, the fact that he’s not giving Danny much of a chance to tell him…
You’re correct. However, I was pointing this out for the benefit of commenters who are bashing “nice guys” like Danny for being passive-aggressive misogynists, and to play Devil’s advocate for Danny’s “mistake” of missing out on some no-strings nookie. Everyone is taking Joe’s side, but Danny’s decision has merit too.
That said, knowing what I know now, I would totally have tapped that.
I was responding specifically to Samlh’s statement about not agreeing with Joe after remembering that fact.
That said, I’ve changed my mind. The fact that Joe doesn’t know that is entirely his own fault. Instead of asking Danny why he thought Billie would regret it later, he listed three potential reasons and when Danny denied all three he decided that there could not possibly be any other reason, whereas we know that Danny actually has a whole lot of evidence to believe it–“She literally told me she was going to regret it later” being only the most significant piece.
Remember, no man has a right to say no unless he thinks it’s for the woman’s own good.
What about a monk?
No. If a monk ever says no to a woman, he should take a knife and slice down his own penile tissue in penitence, for committing an act tantamount to abuse. Unless it genuinely was for her own good, e.g., if she was drunk.
I’m glad your avatar is none other than Joe himself. It makes up for the fact that he was right in the comic.
And the expression on *your* avatar is exactly right 🙂
So, when are Joe and Danny gonna bang?
Probably any minute now. You see, Joe actually had a point, which means Hell is about to freeze over, so…
…so penguins on tricycles?
That was my sentiments exactly.
Ah, this is a riot!
love the series! started a month ago and cant wait to mesh with the followers. and yes, there will be puns forthcoming for all.
well know i feel stupid…how do i get my gravatar to show?
did you put in your email where it says email?
i did. my gravatar should be alucard from hellsing ultimate…
instead i got ethan blushing…yeah
*now
ok now i feel even stupider, this was a horrible start
Hate to admit it, but Joe has a point
I think Joe will try and talk Danny into going over and apologizing to Billie for his actions and following the talk up with sex. If Joe can’t get Danny to do this, Joe will go over and apologize for him.
With his penis.
badabing badaboobies
TESTIFY, JOE!
She had to ask Danny of all people.
Having more or less BEEN Danny in this situation before, with the benefit of 10 years of hindsight I must say that I cannot endorse Joe’s point of view hard enough.
As in, I support what he’s saying deeply. To the hilt. All the way. The whole nine inches. etc.
So you’re saying you’re balls deep in agreement?
I agree with Joe [shudder] that this reason is bogus, but as detailed in various comments, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to turn her down.
I’m… agreeing with Joe? This feels wrong, but he’s right… Jeez. When Joe’s right about women…. the world feels misaligned.
Hey, a broken clock can be right.
Obviously Joe is right about lots of things, or he wouldn’t have gotten into college in the first place. And he manages social interaction well enough to get a lot of sex. I think he only goes seriously wrong in that he seems to feel that sex is enough. Well, he’s young. Maybe he’ll fall in love someday and realize what he’s been missing.
I’m leaning towards Danny’s side. Trading sex for compliments is not a healthy attitude, because compliments should be freely given – to encourage Billie would have reinforced the idea, for Billie, that her value as a person is tied up with her willingness to hand out sexual favours. Not a good thing to reinforce. Danny prevented this by making it clear that the compliments were freely given, which must have made Billie feel a lot better about herself and probably won him a new friend.
Danny wouldn’t be ‘taking advantage’ in the traditional sense – Billie knew what she wanted. However, I think that it still could have been considered ‘taking advantage’ in that he would have been getting his pleasure at Billie’s expense.
Sure, Billie knows whether she wants to have sex or not. But Danny has every right to refuse, and caring about Billie is a good reason to do so.
The reason I’m leaning towards Danny’s side, not entirely on it, is that I’m not sure that he’s consciously thought about this angle.
I don’t think he had time to consciously think about any angle. He reacted instinctively and is still working through the why part.
Heres an idea, why dont we wait to make judgments on Dannys action till we find out exactly what happened in there. Maybe there is a good reason for what Danny said that we dont know about (yet)
There are plenty of good reasons for what Danny said that we do know about, ranging from the fact that she rapidly changed her mind, clearly didn’t know what she wanted, appeared to be somewhat crazy, and literally told him that she was going to change her mind again if they didn’t start immediately.
Joe doesn’t know these things, so it doesn’t have an impact on his reasoning… but he didn’t let Danny tell him, either.
The thing is I’m with Danny on this one but maybe I’m not the best person to talk to since I want a meaningful relationship and not just sex.
Wow a Mike gravatar with that comment doesn’t work too well does it?
Well then: go ahead and decide for yourself what you want; let the other person decide for themselves what they want; but don’t ever think that you know what the other person wants better than they do. Which is where Danny went wrong here, assuming he’s right about why he did it.
But Danny did have a good idea of what Billie wanted because she clearly said “shut up before I change my mind”. That statement put the idea that Billie hasn’t considered regrets yet and might change her mind after having done the deed. I don’t think Danny was thinking he knew what the other person wants better than they do, Danny was only thinking he gave her the chance to change her mind rather than not.
I was just about to post the same thought until I read this one.
Another possibility that I don’t think anyone’s mentioned yet: Has this happened to Danny before? I mean, has he slept with a girl who thought she was ready for it, only to be blamed later for what turned out to be a mistake?
There are definitely people who will blame their partners for their own bad choices or confusion. If Danny had slept with one, his hesitation now would be understandable.
Otherwise, Danny is grasping at straws, and I seriously hope he doesn’t actually believe what he’s saying.
Well, while that’s certainly possible, considering his incredibly devoted relationship to Dorothy that only ended a few days ago that I assume lasted a few years, unless he got an INCREDIBLY early start, I think it’s fairly safe to say he hasn’t been in this situation before.
Unlikely. One of Danny’s traits in Roomies was that he was very often a self-righteous jackass. While that’s been greatly toned down, I sincerely doubt Willis has ditched it entirely.
There there, Danny. There there.
Joe’s logic is horribly flawed, but he tries. Danny didn’t want to. He just said he did to try to get Joe off his case and it backfired.
Naw, Joe’s logic is fine. Even if Danny’s stated reasons are baldfaced lies, that doesn’t change the fact that Joe’s logic, based on the assumption of their truth, is quite correct.
No, because even if that was Danny’s reasoning, which I don’t think it was… he actually did have plenty of reasons to think that Billie would regret it later. Joe doesn’t know about them, but that’s because instead of asking “Why do you think that?” he rattled off three potential reasons as if they were the only possibilities.
So based on the facts he has and the values we know he has, his logic is sound. But he denied himself access to those facts.
Also, if he hadn’t started the argument in the first place on the basis that Danny, like himself, values sex above all else, than Danny would not have given that reasoning. He was ignoring most of Danny’s valid reasons for turning Billie down from the start.
What you’re trying to say, Danny, is that you didn’t want to BE TAKEN advantage of. It’s OK, you did the right thing.
Also, Joe’s eyes are traveling all over his face! Geez, Louise! He looks better in the panels where he actually has a forehead.
awesome strip. glad Joe pointed out what’s wrong with a lot of “nice guys.”
Danny needs to admit that he didn’t want to have sex with someone he just met, even if she was hot, and that he and Joe will have to agree to disagree on whether there is anything wrong with that.
This.
That’d require about a years worth of personal growth for both of them. I’m pretty young but I don’t think I’ll make it out the other end of that story arc.
Gotta agree with Joe here. Danny’s not being honest with Joe OR himself about why he turned her down.
David: How could you make the everyman of your comic such chump? What a dissapointment.
Because he chose not to bang Billie, or because he can’t manage to explain himself properly to Joe? Or both?
I’m proud, this actually boils down to some complex issues on gender, sexuality, and inequality. Kudos DoA for talking about the same stuff we’re discussing in my Gender class tonight 🙂
Ive recently been reading materials on similar subjects. Quite interesting.
If Willis were a novelist instead of a webcartoonist, his novels would become class reading material for gender classes and other classes that examine cultural norms.
Here’s hoping the medium of the webcomic someday attains scholastic legitimacy.
God, I hope not. Nothing puts kids off books like having to read them for school.
She did say “Now shut up before I change my mind,” which clearly means she suspects she’ll change her mind about the matter, and her emotional state did swing dramatically in response to something that wouldn’t typically cause that strong of a change in emotional state, suggesting that she has some emotional trouble.
Joe’s jumping to conclusions when he should know there are more factors than the ones he’s thinking about.
I just realised something; what happened to Danny back in the strip Eye Contact is in essence the ‘nice guy’s’ wet dream.
The ‘nice guy’s wet dream’ being that just by saying a few nice complements to a girl normally out of their league, she will reward them with becoming their girlfriend and sex.
PS: The fact that Danny refused sex in this context make him more of a White Knight than a ‘nice guy’.
Or maybe Danny just isn’t a hussy like Joe.
Or Joe’s mom.
Honestly, if Danny’s being truthful (and that’s a big if), his reasoning may say more about his self esteem than his opinion about women.
In other news, the title of this strip appears to have interesting consequences for the contextual advertisements…
Nothing wrong with a little enthusiastic consent. Geez Joe, you’re acting like it’s a crime for a guy not to stick it into anything that doesn’t explicitly say no.
Um, she jumped him, told him she would be on top, and said yes when he asked if it was really happening. How much more enthusiastic do you want her to be?
A man’s got to have a code.
I whole-heartedly agree.
Just kiss already!