That got harder for me after having one partner gas-light me about things we did together so she could accuse me of cheating on her. 👍👍 Good times. So anyways, no I’ve been single for seven years.
And Ruth, that was self-defense. What Ms. Billingsworth did was assault.
Healthy relationships (and non-relationships) are a thing IRL! Just, you know, not in DoA (or at least not in 99% of it). We come to this comic for a wide variety of rampant immaturity and gloriously awful relationships, not sane & healthy ones.
There are precious few currently existing couples with enough dramatic tension to have a focus on their sex lives at this point, which seems to be the criteria. Barring new romantic developments, I think Sal and Danny are the current most likely candidates, as their relationship developing has been the subject of actual narrative focus.
But aside from having made up for lost time with pairings that existed in Shortpacked!, Willis only seems to do Slipshines when they make narrative sense in DoA. I think it might be a while before we see the next one. Becky and Dina were a long time coming and a long time building up, and I think the fact that we didn’t see one for a good long while means that Willis doesn’t feel like it’s something they need to do, but rather a nice add-on when it’s relevant.
I mean I think it means we’re going to see a lot of fighting and breaking up. I don’t expect Halloween is going to yield a Slipshine. I could be wrong of course!
The last events that produced a Slipshine were about three years ago. It was less easy to track down exactly when the actual Slipshine came out, but I’d guess pretty close to that. Comparatively, the first Slipshine came out in 2014, and there were 11 in those four-ish years (not counting the pin-up collection).
I mean that goes back to what I said about dramatic tension and relevance to the narrative. Sierra, Grace, and Mandy don’t tend to show up that often because they’re minor characters and don’t often impact the storyline that’s depicted for us.
I mean I get that you’re hoping for something like that, but a Slipshine has most often come about when a relationship has had narrative focus. Halloween seems like a bad candidate for a relationship we haven’t seen much of yet given that we know the events of Halloween were significant for several relationships. It just doesn’t seem likely that we’ll be getting one really soon.
There’s a lot we don’t know about Halloween, but we do have some general information.
Hell, even single-shots of some couple doing it on the unholiest of nights still counts as a Slipshine. By that standard, even Mary technically got one.
But besides that, “general information” or not, Willis has a way of throwing stuff at us that we LEAST expect. 😄
Yeah. This was just giving “Billie” what she wants. (I say “Billie” because Jennifer was slipping way back into full-on “Billie” mode there. The “Jennifer” costume had come all the way off.)
Just wait until the big bourgeois breakfast after the next storyline, Walky will have what it takes to make the seemingly solid “Jennifer” utterly melt into air!
BTW Laura, you know of any good, hearty recipes for when digestive inflammation is present?
Well, I have a few favorites:
Unflavored, unsweetened rice milk
Steamed cow’s milk with non-alcoholic mint flavoring
Bone broth or chicken broth
(Chicken Noodle Soup or Wonton Soup can be good)
Couscous
Lentil soup
Plain yoghurt with frozen blueberries and ginger and honey
Ginger mint tea
Raspberry Leaf Tea if the stomach upset is menstrual related
For diarrhea, there’s the “BE BRATTY” diet:
Broth
Electrolyte Drink (e.g. Gatorade)
Bananas
Rice (white, not brown)
Apples / Applesauce
Toast
Tea (weak, not strong)
Yoghurt
But I’m sure others have others. Depends on the source of the inflammation. Best to check with a doctor — don’t want to make it worse.
Well, sure, but onion and garlic can also exacerbate the inflammation. Double-edged sword. That’s why it depends on the source of the inflammation and how bad it is. Always good to talk with a trusted health care provider before attempting to self-treat with food. Ulcers, Celiac, Crohn’s, IBS… they all have different triggers.
Go-to is bread or dumplings, of course, but you don’t want to just be eating bread all the time. Too much is not good for you. Especially if you have celiac disease or a gluten sensitivity.
I’ve actually started treating my joint pain with Omega-3 oils, turmeric and black pepper, on my doctor’s recommendation. It helps! I also try to eat ginger and onions and garlic every day, but what works for me might not work for others.
In the news today. Get your 7-10 hours of sleep a night, and if you can’t get total darkness, at least wear an eye mask to sleep! Really important for your body and mind.
I hope it’s over actually. Especially since this has escalated to violence. Arguments can be entertaining but seeing two characters abuse each other isn’t really fun in this context.
To be fair, Ruth didn’t have much of a choice. If someone’s got an elbow to your throat, your options are very limited. She couldn’t escape, she couldn’t gently try to get her off. Literally, the only option here is violence. She could definitely have taken a measure to ensure Jennifer wasn’t at risk of getting a concussion, but I don’t think RAs are trained in therapeutic holds or anything like that.
No. As an education professional working with young people with complex needs, I’m trained in therapeutic holds. Young people can be restrained safely and legally in the UK (but part of the legal bit is the requirement to be able to show that the restraint was applied as a last resort, and that the situation would have been much worse without it). Therapeutic holds are based on biomechanical principles to immobilise without causing pain or injury, which is a great theory until you actually end up in a room with a young person in crisis who is determined to hurt themselves or someone else. Without the option for therapeutic holds, my job would be orders of magnitude more dangerous (and yes, I’m using the phrase ‘orders of magnitude’ in its strict mathematical sense).
I’m pretty sure Therapeutic Hold refers to consensual holding, where as Safe Holding refers to restraint.
But also idk, be careful? people have died from being restrained in correctly, not just those who’ve had to run from cops, but also autistic people who’ve been restrained improperly
It’s not really about Ruth’s options, just the idea they’ll be hurting each other in general. It’s not like this is a battle comic or something. Violence for the most part is played pretty straight from a tonal pov. Even Sal and Amber’s fight wasn’t really fun to watch.
I’d say having a witness (Jason) as well as the fact that this happened in Ruth’s door when Jennifer lives in another dorm would support the self-defense argument.
Agreed. Nothing Ruth did before this felt especially dishonest. Sure, she might not have been 100% sincere when she wished Jennifer well, but that can take time and mostly she did seem to mean it. Jennifer demanding a dramatic reenactment of their previous, worse selves doesn’t feel authentic at all.
Really, its probably what she boxed Ruth into doing, either assault or kiss her, to remind herself that this identity Billie she had before was “bad” and she’s “good” now, Jennifer.
But honestly I hate it when people rope others into this cycle of self-denial, self-repression and aggressive judgement.
Because honestly, I don’t think Jen means what she says here, but what does she say?
Ruth: it makes sense if its you, no big deal
Jennifer: lies, dont be nice its lies
Ruth, faced with second violent act:
Choice 1, be untrue to her genuine desire to see her ex happy in her relationship and her newfound general balance of self to world… kiss, cheat, prove deplorable, get rejected called scummy
Choice 2, be violent back, be untrue to your new mental health and briefly regress. If the old Billie sees the old Ruth and remains with Asher and remains happy, Ruth will be true to her desire to see Jen happy.
This is clearly the better option. Doesn’t mean its clear or doesnt hurt…
I also think that Jen knows. on some level, that her new crowd of friends is not good, either for her or in general. Jen has always wanted to be cool and admired, and she’s always struggled with the parts of her authentic self that do not fit the current “cool” mode of being. So her old friends know something more like the real her, which is not 100% conventionally “cool,” while her new friends fit the image she has in her head, but don’t know her or especially want to. Jennifer might want to commit to the whole “real grown-up adult” but with these people, but it’s not working- and frankly it shouldn’t, Raidah and her friends are shallow classist jagoffs- and instead of finding a way to be genuine, she’s doing whatever this is. And I get it, fitting in can be hard at any age and doubly so when you’re young and newly on your own. But this display wasn’t honesty and it’s not going to help. I hope Ruth doesn’t get dragged into this again, because she does seem to be committing to addressing her problems and moving forward in a constructive way, whatever that ultimately looks like for her.
I don’t know. She’s been at least somewhat more open with them than with most of her old friends – they know about Kit Fisto. They’re hiding their disdain for as yet unrevealed reasons, so it is all going to turn into a disaster, but Jennifer might be being more genuine than you think.
Or at least as genuine as she’s being with herself, since there does seem to be a lot of self-deception in her current life.
It was either one ore the other and she went the choice that didn’t undo months of effort of getting over her…though she’s clearly not completely over her.
I can’t tell if I’m either wrong about Mike being the worst-person-who-is-not-an-outright-villain in the cast before his death or if Jennifer has gone through a Face-Heel Turn by this point and this is just a Villain Protagonist chapter.
Jennifer’s like Darth Vader if Darth Vader’s cape said “DEFINITELY NOT ANAKIN SKYWALKER” and also if he wouldn’t ever shut up about how he’s a Sith and he’s absolutely not Anakin Skywalker, who he destroyed for being weak and garbage.
Lots of people in the cast have their bad sides, but the distinction with Mike up until his death sequence (and some bits of the childhood flashbacks) is that there was nothing else.
With Jennifer, we see this, but we also just saw her take Joyce to the doctor and come back to check on her. Even with his closest friends we don’t see Mike do anything like that.
He got Dorothy to acknowledge her thing with Walky, though who knows if that was his intention or not (besides just messing with them).
Mike gives the impression that he says things to people to get them to a better place, but it’s never clear if that’s honestly how he is.
He does seem to care about Amber and Ethan, but just because you care doesn’t mean you show it in a healthy or helpful way, and it definitely doesn’t mean you can’t also be hurtful and hateful.
People read that impression into Mike. I’ve never been sure why.
At the very least, it’s far less clear that he was ever being helpful (before the end) than it was about Jennifer just today with Joyce and the doctor.
I can’t think of a single time Mike ever actually helped anyone besides Ethan, and it could be argued the week or two of boosted confidence Ethan got out of it was far less than all of the emotional damage Mike had inflicted up to that point. The shit with Dorothy and Walky only hurt the two of them, I don’t know where readers get the idea that Mike was some sort of asshole angel who helps people by hurting them horribly. He was the kind of friend that, when he sees you stubbed your toe, breaks a finger and tells you what a good friend he is for taking your mind off your toe.
Mike used that sort of “pushing you to be better” rationalization to justify his bullying to himself, but it’s not reallly true and I think he realized that before he died
I think it’s fair to say on Ruth’s part this was self defence… this time. I mean, your door gets kicked open and then someone puts an elbow to your throat, even after you try to end the interaction peacefully, what’re you gonna do?
Affirmation that she has changed for the better and everyone else has not and she definitely is doing better than everyone else because she doesn’t have a problem they have a problem.
Or maybe she just thrives on drama, and her mask has been slipping all day.
I mean, as far as drama goes, we know she likes it. She said to hook it into her veins when she thought Sal was jealous of her.
So that part isn’t in question, just the rest.
She wanted Ruth to react violently and therefore prove all her niceness was a socially polite fake sham. Because you know, when you push someone into a corner that reaction and only that reaction is truthful and honest as it conveniently validates your personal narrative about them.
But to be fair, elbow to your neck, what are your choices? She attempted deescalation, but it didn’t work. Her door was already open, so she couldn’t have slipped behind. Jennifer gave her very little choices, especially when RA training is insufficient on how to engage in stuff like harm reduced self-defense or therapeutic holds.
She acknowledged her feelings, but also knew that acting on them could be harmful.
Someone kicks your door in. You try to reason with them. They throw an elbow into your throat. You react with violence for self-preservation. You did nothing wrong.
I feel like I’m rereading the asshole comments about how Jennifer was definitely right to leave Ruth after Ruth snapped at her trying to get them to keep drinking, or how Tall Rachel is actually in the right to wait until Ruth was at her absolute lowest to say “You’re a monster and you will always be one.” Then again, this is the comment section that defends Mike on the regular, I shouldn’t be expecting better.
Tall Rachel can fuck off and stay there, but I honestly think it’s fine for Billie to have left after Ruth snapped about the drinking. Maybe her reasoning was shit, but it’s not like they’re especially healthy for each other, so any distance is progress.
We’re talking about the whole “mimosas for breakfast, flippantly downplaying your concerns, cold shoulder until the next evening, land Ruth in the ER” arc, right? Because I still don’t get what Jennie was passive-aggressively trying to accomplish in that one.
I’d link to individual strips but I’ll get auto-moderated, so it’s basically all of their appearances in these two chapters:
Wait, reading your comment again I think you mean Jennifer’s reasoning for leaving was shit? In which case we’re in violent agreement.
She was trying to get Ruth to just box up and ignore her problems, just like she does herself. As a certain talking hedgehog once said, that’s no good.
My understanding of what Jennifer was trying to do at the time: At first she was in denial about what she was doing to Ruth by bringing up booze all the time. That ended when Ruth snapped at her. She then tried to drive Ruth away, thinking that she could keep drinking and Ruth would get better without her. That ended when Ruth came to the bar and had to be rushed to the hospital, since Ruth was clearly not okay getting better with her. She then worried Ruth was letting her go so she could die without hurting anyone – which was part of their earlier deal – that’s the “how dare you let me” bit.
So you bust someone’s door, physically assault them, and then act smug when they engage in the retaliation you specifically were attempting to provoke out of them.
We needed up to date information. The meta’s changed since then. Jennifer’s clearly switched from telegraphed strikes to grappling. She’s also lost weight and clearly gained a bit of speed. Overall, the matchup still favors Ruth but what was one a 9-1 is probably closer to a 7-3 to Ruth.
Eh, I think it was a pretty safe assumption that it hasn’t changed. Cheerleaders are a classic dedicated support role, while Hockey Goons have some major bonuses to unarmed combat, and they’ve both only gained a few levels since that matchup.
Cheerleaders are clearly bards while hockey goons are fighters at least and possibly barbarians, so engaging in martial combat instead of spellcasting was a fail from jump for Jennifer.
Yeah, but Jennifer isn’t just a cheerleader, but a Head Cheerleader. The job promotion allowed her the option for combat abilities as well as buffing her support ones. Also don’t think Ruth fully spec’d into the hockey goon class. She’s spent much more time in the R.A. class giving her small bonuses to authority and intimidation but it’s not specifically any combat benefits. That plus both combatants evolving fighting styles meant this matchup is closer than you’d expect.
Ruth has like two levels of assistant at most, and Jennifer having a prestige class that gives a few additional weapons skills doesn’t translate to being able to win an unarmed duel against a class that is built to win unarmed duels.
It didn’t help that Jennifer held her action after the initial surprise round, giving Ruth the opportunity to break the grapple and shove her, causing Jennifer to suffer the prone condition.
What point is Jennifer trying to make? That she’s mad at the idea that ruth can change? If her happiness is dependent on somebody else’s misery that’s not going to work well
Although that seems to be the mo of her entire friend group
Woah, woah, woah. You’re completely misrepresenting Jennifer here.
She not JUST saying that she’s MAD at the idea Ruth can change. She’s actually saying that any change Ruth has made in her life is illegitimate, because the only REAL Ruth was the violent, clinically depressed, alcoholic who needed Billie to feel even remotely in control of herself, so therefore it’s actually in Ruth’s own best interest that they get back together in a toxic mutually abusive relationship! Which also plays nicely off of Ruth’s already-existing insecurities and lingering romantic feelings, which I’ll bet Jennifer is fully aware of.
Whoa. That’s a really dark insight, Mturtle7, Puts a different perspective on helping Joyce (though to be fair, Joyce pointed out she’s not actually that good at helping). I wonder if the intention is that Jennifer is toxic or just the Jennifer-Ruth dynamic.
i think the subtext was jennifer confirming to herself that ruth still had feelings for her, which ruth adds a bit of credence for when she said “couldve kissed her”
She’s trying to prove that Ruth’s niceness is a facade, that shes angry at her, that she hates her. Because Billie believes your ex should be your enemy. And probably because she openly hates Ruth so much, and it feels some variant of off not to have that mirrored. Making herself feel better about it
Made her feel like she could regain some control by getting out of control again. Because out-of-control behavior is familiar.
Eric Berne (misogynist), author of “Games People Play” and developer of Transactional Analysis had some insight into why some people remain in abusive/codependent relationships. (Obviously not the primary reason.) The idea is that if one partner can goad the other partner into behaving predictably, such as with a relapse, an act of physical abuse, cheating, etc., then the victim scores a “win”. (“Ha! I knew it! You’ll never change. I was right!”) Even though the predicted behavior harms and hurts the victim, the fact that the victim receives the anticipated or expected result is all that’s necessary to achieve the dopamine hit and feel the “superiority” high that keeps them in the codependent relationship.
…Again, Berne was a misogynist. I’m not condoning or espousing his ideas or his analysis. But I have fallen into the “Drama Triangle” (wherein two or more people cycle through the roles of victim/persecutor/rescuer toward each other) enough times to know how addictive drama can be, even when it’s self-destructive.
In practice you trigger it when you’re ready to handle it because it would be worse if you wait for them to stew in it first, but also aren’t always feeling up to dealing with it. I call it the “controlled detonation,” approach.
I mean there’s always abusers who play the victim but that’s not what I’m thinking of.
Ah, so Jennifer is using DIFFERENT toxic logic than I expected of ‘we broke up, YOU SHOULD HATE ME, being nice to me is therefore FAKE AND LIES’.
Which is unhealthy, but unhealthy in a different way. She genuinely expects Ruth to be resentful and bitter and mean about things and if she is not, then she must be being insincere or fake socially polite. She can’t possibly actually MEAN it.
I’m thinking this too, or that it wasn’t actually THAT dramatic. Like it was just Ruth saying “Y’know… we should just stop” and Billie made it into a huge “YOU MUST HATE ME” thing.
Jennifer is impossible to like in this arc, and I say this as someone who has liked her in the past in spite of and/or because of how much of a fuckup she is.
I really want someone to finally tell her that her new persona is such obvious bullshit. If you actually want to be a better person then put in the fucking work.
After Joyce made it clear that Joyce was in crisis and needed to speak to Jennifer’s familiar old drama-queen hot-mess persona, “Billie,” not the competent and confident new “Jennifer”.
I mean, is that her being a better person than before? It’s good, of course, don’t get me wrong, but it’s exactly the same kind of good thing she would have done pre-Jennifer. That’s not really what I meant.
I don’t even necessarily think that Jennifer is aiming to be a ‘better person’, because that would require a degree of honesty with herself that she is refusing to engage in because of how deeply insecure she is about being a bad person.
She’ll do anything to avoid reflecting on the ways she hurts others and what that might say about her. Part of her alcohol addiction, but her desire to ‘reinvent herself’ over and over is her recognizing that there’s something wrong, but deciding to skip over the step that requires real reflection on what the problems are and how to fix them–and instead just bulldozing straight ahead into ‘okay well I’m just going to change EVERYTHING I possibly can all at once and that’ll get the job done, surely’.
Not even when she’s actively calling herself poison is she actually reflecting on her problems–she just wallows in misery, or lashes out, and then probably drinks or does something else to forget about it and go back to pretending her problems don’t exist.
Jennifer threw the first assault. Near kicked in the door and elbowed Ruth’s throat. Legally that’s on Jen honestly. It was a commiserate amount of force and Ruth has no formalized martial arts training to make her hands-throwing more of a deadly weapon than Jennifer’s.
Also, play stupid games Jennifer, earn stupid prizes. Ruth genuinely missed the lover she had, but clearly 1, no longer views herself worthy to pursue or have Jennifer, and 2, bitterness has clearly poisoned the well in her eyes.
Frankly nothing Ruth could have done in this situation was going to win. Be nice? Already got throat-elbowed for that. Own up to damages? Jennifer has refused to hear it multiple times and is still arguing past current Ruth, towards past Ruth who dared to question what had happened being good or bad or whos fault, whatever happened. And should Ruth have pushed past Jen’s explicit wish to move on and that she’s committed, to kiss her sorry? No… nope thats not fair to expect or be angry about not getting.
“Knew it?” You really should have already, but you really clearly don’t.
Kinda noticed the middle pannel of yesterday’s page, both of their eyes softened. Conditioning, but also I don’t think either would have been unhappy immediately if they kissed.
Still glad Ruth is finally a fraction more adjusted than her ex.
Thanks! I think I would have needed the clarification anyway, but I looked at yesterday’s comic and realized that I did not retain almost anything that Billie said, so that helps me see it now.
That thing you said, “proving someone has an anger problem by pushing their buttons until they snap at you”, I think that’s called reactive abuse. It’s also complete bullshit and deserves no less than what Ruth gave Billie in yesterday’s strip. If you wanna provoke a violent reaction, you deserve whatever pain comes your way, because at that point it’s your own damn fault.
Trust me Axel, you’re not alone. I think this scene is supposed to feel kind of unsettling and confusing, similar to how unsettled and confused both Ruth and Jennifer feel right now!
Knew it… Knew it WHAT? Jennifer/Billie is really sad to see, good thing Ruth was able to refuse her. I hope she and Jason will discuss whath appened, she needs to talk with someone about this NOW. Jennifer… she needs to be able to avoid Mary and her comments long the way for her room. But maybe even the hateful Mary was scared by what’s just happened.
Yep, Billie really proved her point by provoking her that was being pleasant to her into body-slamming her instead. She’s really made a sterling victory there.
Supposing assault charges were filed, and supposing Jennifer’s parents cared at least as much as Ruth’s guardian, I am curious who’d win in getting their way, assuming that justice would be irrelevant (as is the style of the time).
i sympathize with Ruth,
I’ve had a similar situation happen to me with an ex, except it wasn’t this violent (that’s only reserved for bed or for when I’m being sexually harassed)
Anyway, it’s clear that both girls are still in love with each other but have gotten healthy enough to know that after whatever caused their breakup, they’re not healthy enough to handle each other, for now.
they’re both definitely still hella fucked in the head, Jennifer probably more than Ruth, but I’m already predicting right now, that as the story progresses over our real world years, they will each get better and healthier and grow, they will approach each other again, this time like normal people with only moderate levels of blood lust, and as they talk things over, they will eventually get back together as a healthy loving couple with a long term future, but this is the super duper end goal, no way we’re seeing it in the next year and a half AT LEAST.
I think a point is being missed. Billie is hurting without Ruth. She clearly misses her, and she’s angry that Ruth seems to be moving on and is supportive of HER moving on. But neither of them wants to. They are both pretending. Because as toxic as it was there’s still love there. What they have with their boyfriends is not love, and love is what they’re both really after because neither gets it at home.
I don’t think they are one another’s problems. Their anger and emotional damage is the problem, and boys aren’t going to fix that.
I sense an underlying belief in your argument that I can’t quite catch – such as, that they can only feel one way about something at a time, or something like that.
Neither of them wants to move on, but also, they both want to move on (because some part of them wants to be capable, mature, and to feel good in life).
Jennifer really does want to be all grown up and beyond her “phase” with alcoholism and depression and Ruth. She wants to have changed, she wants ‘Jennifer’ to be real already.
She *also* wants ‘Jennifer’ to not be real, she wants to be poison-hurricane-Billie who can only be with poison-hurricane-Ruth, she wants all that drama and excitement and powerful adrenaline, she wants to destroy everything else she’s built in life as a testament to how powerfully they love each other.
It’s not a healthy idea of romance, but, that’s the one she’s got.
With her desire to be OK vs. her desire to be Very Not OK, Jennifer probably feels like she’s a thin veneer of maturity over the toxic drama-hurricane within. She suspects that Ruth feels the same combination, and she’s offended that Ruth might act like she has one motivation but not the other.
If Ruth’s calm is a lie, that means they can have some of what’s familiar, what gets them going, what makes them feel… not good exactly, but invigorated and desirous and desired. Jennifer still wants that, a lot. (She hasn’t even faced that it’s deeply unclear whether she can have that feeling from within a positive relationship.)
How do you navigate it when you want to be a functional mature non-depressed non-alcoholic adult, but you also really want that exciting drama-hurricane (which you define as a key component of love)? How can Jennifer ever have both?
(I suppose she could have a stable life with the occasional torrid affair that threatens to destroy it, or a whole lot of kink-play with a safeword, or an off-again on-again relationship that keeps her mired in the toxic disaster that makes her feel alive and in love… that last one seems to be the one that Billie is subconsciously angling for. It would be better to go take up skydiving, but, that’s the way it goes.)
Okay, I think that’s part of it; there’s also the part that’s like, “This Ruth isn’t acting like the Ruth I know” and wanting that Ruth back/wanting Ruth to cooperate with the script in Jennifer’s head.
Hey Zee, if you see this and have the energy to do so, could you share some resources related to aceflux identity? If there is much, I mean; I’ve read the top Google results on the wikis, just wondering if there are other things on being/understanding aceflux identity that you think are good.
by god was i confused for a full god damn minute until i decided to reread this and realized you were not in fact looking for information on acid reflux identities
What’s with all the comments about “legally, X did this, therefore [legal repercussion]”? This ain’t a comic with real life stern-faced laws happening after fights. I think the closest any of these kids have gotten to legal trouble (since they arrived at college) is when Amber turned that one guy into spaghetti and his mom decided to sue her mom, and we haven’t even seen any of that.
Jason brought up the concept of assault, and Ruth seems to think she commited it. Most readers seem to agree it was entirely justified self defense. Legal repercussions may never happen but “Who’s at fault” matters to people.
That’s not assault. That’s self-defense. When Jennifer forearm checked Ruth into the wall? THAT was assault. Jennifer got shoved to the ground to break the hold. When someone touches you and you don’t want them to, you can make them stop.
It’s sad that it’s come to this, but Jennifer is sicker than Billie ever was.
Willis will change scenes so that it feels like time has passed when he changes back. I wonder, is this the climax? Do we get some kind of denounment? Or will we get a skit with, idk, Roz and Sal or something before cutting to Dina before cutting to Jennifer performing everything is a-okay to Asher who grabs her for a smooch and says woah what’s with the goose egg on your head lets go to the hospital.
Hm…well, the chapter “This Was Halloween” starts Saturday, so if it’s a flashback right away, that only gives us a day. Tomorrow could be Jason saying something like, “What exactly happened between you two?” and then we dive in. Or it could be not a direct setup at all.
It’s just too bad the static image webcomic format can’t do a wobbly flashback transition as a character’s voice echoes “back then… back then… back then…”
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it’s weird how thoroughly I’ve compartmentalised my exes that this would never be a risk to me
or maybe I’m just… healthy?? 🤔 is that a thing???
no chance of evil exes there
How do you compartmentalize exes? If its with a filling cabinet, because a filing cabinet for people is just a morgue, which would be … concerning.
Well, see, there are actually many Mirror Dimensions and Ana just uses a different one for each ex.
You compartmentalize exes with virtual machines and Docker.
One of my exes is running Linux and the other is running Windows XP. It’s pretty handy.
That got harder for me after having one partner gas-light me about things we did together so she could accuse me of cheating on her. 👍👍 Good times. So anyways, no I’ve been single for seven years.
And Ruth, that was self-defense. What Ms. Billingsworth did was assault.
Healthy relationships (and non-relationships) are a thing IRL! Just, you know, not in DoA (or at least not in 99% of it). We come to this comic for a wide variety of rampant immaturity and gloriously awful relationships, not sane & healthy ones.
i’m sure there are ppl who have wanted to punch their exes but very rarely anyone does unless it was an abusive relationship, so yeah
Oh no you don’t!!!
You two brawlers aren’t getting away without a slipshine THAT easily! 😈
🌀 Parasite Powers: Horny Hypnosis! 🌀
*plays “Hypnotik” by Ken Arai on hacked muzak*
I get what you’re saying, but they very much have had a Slipshine already.
Two, even.
What’s one more for these two? 😏
But I get your point I think. If not Jennifer x Ruth, who’s next best candidate for next slipshine?
I’m partial to Rose and Nash.
There are precious few currently existing couples with enough dramatic tension to have a focus on their sex lives at this point, which seems to be the criteria. Barring new romantic developments, I think Sal and Danny are the current most likely candidates, as their relationship developing has been the subject of actual narrative focus.
But aside from having made up for lost time with pairings that existed in Shortpacked!, Willis only seems to do Slipshines when they make narrative sense in DoA. I think it might be a while before we see the next one. Becky and Dina were a long time coming and a long time building up, and I think the fact that we didn’t see one for a good long while means that Willis doesn’t feel like it’s something they need to do, but rather a nice add-on when it’s relevant.
Not too long, actually.
Mind you, next storyline coming up very soon takes place during Halloween.
You know what that means. 😈
I mean I think it means we’re going to see a lot of fighting and breaking up. I don’t expect Halloween is going to yield a Slipshine. I could be wrong of course!
The last events that produced a Slipshine were about three years ago. It was less easy to track down exactly when the actual Slipshine came out, but I’d guess pretty close to that. Comparatively, the first Slipshine came out in 2014, and there were 11 in those four-ish years (not counting the pin-up collection).
What about character who we HAVEN’T seen that often in-strip?
Like Sierra and her polyamory pals? They seem like they could really be down for some action on Halloween night! 😏
Who knows? They might even play an unexpected role in the Halloween narrative as well!
Halloween is an abyss of the unknown.
The Abyss calls out to us.
Who will answer?
I mean that goes back to what I said about dramatic tension and relevance to the narrative. Sierra, Grace, and Mandy don’t tend to show up that often because they’re minor characters and don’t often impact the storyline that’s depicted for us.
I mean I get that you’re hoping for something like that, but a Slipshine has most often come about when a relationship has had narrative focus. Halloween seems like a bad candidate for a relationship we haven’t seen much of yet given that we know the events of Halloween were significant for several relationships. It just doesn’t seem likely that we’ll be getting one really soon.
There’s a lot we don’t know about Halloween, but we do have some general information.
Hell, even single-shots of some couple doing it on the unholiest of nights still counts as a Slipshine. By that standard, even Mary technically got one.
But besides that, “general information” or not, Willis has a way of throwing stuff at us that we LEAST expect. 😄
At this point I think we need a chart to track them. Any volunteers?
Everybody hurts….because getting roughly pushed to the floor is probably painful.
Just judging by that last panel I don’t know if this was anymore honest about her feelings than what Ruth was doing before.
Yeah. This was just giving “Billie” what she wants. (I say “Billie” because Jennifer was slipping way back into full-on “Billie” mode there. The “Jennifer” costume had come all the way off.)
Just wait until the big bourgeois breakfast after the next storyline, Walky will have what it takes to make the seemingly solid “Jennifer” utterly melt into air!
BTW Laura, you know of any good, hearty recipes for when digestive inflammation is present?
Well, I have a few favorites:
Unflavored, unsweetened rice milk
Steamed cow’s milk with non-alcoholic mint flavoring
Bone broth or chicken broth
(Chicken Noodle Soup or Wonton Soup can be good)
Couscous
Lentil soup
Plain yoghurt with frozen blueberries and ginger and honey
Ginger mint tea
Raspberry Leaf Tea if the stomach upset is menstrual related
For diarrhea, there’s the “BE BRATTY” diet:
Broth
Electrolyte Drink (e.g. Gatorade)
Bananas
Rice (white, not brown)
Apples / Applesauce
Toast
Tea (weak, not strong)
Yoghurt
But I’m sure others have others. Depends on the source of the inflammation. Best to check with a doctor — don’t want to make it worse.
Here’s what HealthLine says:
https://www.healthline.com/health/gut-health-meals
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/best-foods-for-digestion
https://www.healthline.com/health/digestive-health/reducing-inflammation-gut-health
Good luck!
Ooo! All very good! Can onion fit into any of them?
Well, sure, but onion and garlic can also exacerbate the inflammation. Double-edged sword. That’s why it depends on the source of the inflammation and how bad it is. Always good to talk with a trusted health care provider before attempting to self-treat with food. Ulcers, Celiac, Crohn’s, IBS… they all have different triggers.
Go-to is bread or dumplings, of course, but you don’t want to just be eating bread all the time. Too much is not good for you. Especially if you have celiac disease or a gluten sensitivity.
I’ve actually started treating my joint pain with Omega-3 oils, turmeric and black pepper, on my doctor’s recommendation. It helps! I also try to eat ginger and onions and garlic every day, but what works for me might not work for others.
See, e.g.:
https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/ss/slideshow-foods-fight-pain
Your mileage may vary.
Oh, and this:
https://scitechdaily.com/american-heart-association-sleep-duration-is-essential-component-for-heart-and-brain-health/
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/29/health/american-heart-association-heart-health-wellness/index.html
In the news today. Get your 7-10 hours of sleep a night, and if you can’t get total darkness, at least wear an eye mask to sleep! Really important for your body and mind.
Sautéed an onion and put it in a chicken/rice/broth soup. 😋
OK. Thank you for your infodump, Laura. 😊
Now to cook for some Host Maintenance. Fun fun fun. 😋
Yummy! Enjoy! :-9
Walk away, Jason, walk away.
This is wise.
so this is far from over, right?
I hope it’s over actually. Especially since this has escalated to violence. Arguments can be entertaining but seeing two characters abuse each other isn’t really fun in this context.
dont get me wrong. i hope it is too. but the text appears to be pointing to ruth and jennifer’s story continuing onward rather than not.
To be fair, Ruth didn’t have much of a choice. If someone’s got an elbow to your throat, your options are very limited. She couldn’t escape, she couldn’t gently try to get her off. Literally, the only option here is violence. She could definitely have taken a measure to ensure Jennifer wasn’t at risk of getting a concussion, but I don’t think RAs are trained in therapeutic holds or anything like that.
“therapeutic” holds? Is that another word for “sleeper hold”? Also, sightly tangential, I always get hungry for taco bell when I see your avatar. 😅
No. As an education professional working with young people with complex needs, I’m trained in therapeutic holds. Young people can be restrained safely and legally in the UK (but part of the legal bit is the requirement to be able to show that the restraint was applied as a last resort, and that the situation would have been much worse without it). Therapeutic holds are based on biomechanical principles to immobilise without causing pain or injury, which is a great theory until you actually end up in a room with a young person in crisis who is determined to hurt themselves or someone else. Without the option for therapeutic holds, my job would be orders of magnitude more dangerous (and yes, I’m using the phrase ‘orders of magnitude’ in its strict mathematical sense).
I’m pretty sure Therapeutic Hold refers to consensual holding, where as Safe Holding refers to restraint.
But also idk, be careful? people have died from being restrained in correctly, not just those who’ve had to run from cops, but also autistic people who’ve been restrained improperly
Oh, that last bit. Hai PTSD trigger
It’s not really about Ruth’s options, just the idea they’ll be hurting each other in general. It’s not like this is a battle comic or something. Violence for the most part is played pretty straight from a tonal pov. Even Sal and Amber’s fight wasn’t really fun to watch.
The only option here is violence. — Not so. A kiss was also an option. Didn’t you read the dialog?
Well, this interaction is over. I don’t think Jen’s going to press charges and I don’t think Ruth did any serious damage.
Obviously both characters will continue to exist in their comic and presumably interact at some point again in the future
I don’t see how Jennifer could press charges even if she wants to. She lunged at Ruth, entirely unprovoked.
It’s possible that Ruth used excessive force in defending herself, but not by much.
Unless there are cameras in the hallway, she could just lie about it. It’d be a word vs word situation, and Ruth has a record of violence.
I’d say having a witness (Jason) as well as the fact that this happened in Ruth’s door when Jennifer lives in another dorm would support the self-defense argument.
Also, somebody broke the door.
They’ve each done worse to the other before.
Jason was in hiding while it went down. Good instincts.
Ruth reminds me of that Simpsons Pathetic meme in panel two.
“Shove me into the ground!”
(one shove later)
“Ha! I knew you’d shove me into the ground, you ground-shover, you!”
Yeah, she gave her what she wanted to see, but this seems like more of a lie than what she was doing previously.
Agreed. Nothing Ruth did before this felt especially dishonest. Sure, she might not have been 100% sincere when she wished Jennifer well, but that can take time and mostly she did seem to mean it. Jennifer demanding a dramatic reenactment of their previous, worse selves doesn’t feel authentic at all.
Really, its probably what she boxed Ruth into doing, either assault or kiss her, to remind herself that this identity Billie she had before was “bad” and she’s “good” now, Jennifer.
But honestly I hate it when people rope others into this cycle of self-denial, self-repression and aggressive judgement.
Because honestly, I don’t think Jen means what she says here, but what does she say?
Ruth: it makes sense if its you, no big deal
Jennifer: lies, dont be nice its lies
Ruth, faced with second violent act:
Choice 1, be untrue to her genuine desire to see her ex happy in her relationship and her newfound general balance of self to world… kiss, cheat, prove deplorable, get rejected called scummy
Choice 2, be violent back, be untrue to your new mental health and briefly regress. If the old Billie sees the old Ruth and remains with Asher and remains happy, Ruth will be true to her desire to see Jen happy.
This is clearly the better option. Doesn’t mean its clear or doesnt hurt…
I also think that Jen knows. on some level, that her new crowd of friends is not good, either for her or in general. Jen has always wanted to be cool and admired, and she’s always struggled with the parts of her authentic self that do not fit the current “cool” mode of being. So her old friends know something more like the real her, which is not 100% conventionally “cool,” while her new friends fit the image she has in her head, but don’t know her or especially want to. Jennifer might want to commit to the whole “real grown-up adult” but with these people, but it’s not working- and frankly it shouldn’t, Raidah and her friends are shallow classist jagoffs- and instead of finding a way to be genuine, she’s doing whatever this is. And I get it, fitting in can be hard at any age and doubly so when you’re young and newly on your own. But this display wasn’t honesty and it’s not going to help. I hope Ruth doesn’t get dragged into this again, because she does seem to be committing to addressing her problems and moving forward in a constructive way, whatever that ultimately looks like for her.
I don’t know. She’s been at least somewhat more open with them than with most of her old friends – they know about Kit Fisto. They’re hiding their disdain for as yet unrevealed reasons, so it is all going to turn into a disaster, but Jennifer might be being more genuine than you think.
Or at least as genuine as she’s being with herself, since there does seem to be a lot of self-deception in her current life.
Yeah, I don’t think Jennifer would have stopped until she got what she wanted.
Now I know why this arc is called “Don’t Stop Believing”.
Please explain it to us then.
I mean, we have our theories, but it’s far from clear.
A+ self-awareness from Ruth.
no points to… whatever she wants to call herself.
In an alternate timeline, they kissed, and thus chaos and destruction came raining forth to damage the land.
Either that or Mary would have freaked.
Isn’t that what happened the first time? This whole strip is a callback.
It was either one ore the other and she went the choice that didn’t undo months of effort of getting over her…though she’s clearly not completely over her.
I can’t tell if I’m either wrong about Mike being the worst-person-who-is-not-an-outright-villain in the cast before his death or if Jennifer has gone through a Face-Heel Turn by this point and this is just a Villain Protagonist chapter.
Nah, this is pretty consistent with earlier behaviour for her.
It’s not good, but Mike’s record is pretty hard to beat.
That’s Jennifer’s secret, Thag. She always says she’s changed.
Jennifer’s like Darth Vader if Darth Vader’s cape said “DEFINITELY NOT ANAKIN SKYWALKER” and also if he wouldn’t ever shut up about how he’s a Sith and he’s absolutely not Anakin Skywalker, who he destroyed for being weak and garbage.
And goes around telling everyone she’s the Sith Alpha Bongo.
She’s changed! She pulled herself around a full 360 degrees!
Lots of people in the cast have their bad sides, but the distinction with Mike up until his death sequence (and some bits of the childhood flashbacks) is that there was nothing else.
With Jennifer, we see this, but we also just saw her take Joyce to the doctor and come back to check on her. Even with his closest friends we don’t see Mike do anything like that.
He got Dorothy to acknowledge her thing with Walky, though who knows if that was his intention or not (besides just messing with them).
Mike gives the impression that he says things to people to get them to a better place, but it’s never clear if that’s honestly how he is.
He does seem to care about Amber and Ethan, but just because you care doesn’t mean you show it in a healthy or helpful way, and it definitely doesn’t mean you can’t also be hurtful and hateful.
People read that impression into Mike. I’ve never been sure why.
At the very least, it’s far less clear that he was ever being helpful (before the end) than it was about Jennifer just today with Joyce and the doctor.
I can’t think of a single time Mike ever actually helped anyone besides Ethan, and it could be argued the week or two of boosted confidence Ethan got out of it was far less than all of the emotional damage Mike had inflicted up to that point. The shit with Dorothy and Walky only hurt the two of them, I don’t know where readers get the idea that Mike was some sort of asshole angel who helps people by hurting them horribly. He was the kind of friend that, when he sees you stubbed your toe, breaks a finger and tells you what a good friend he is for taking your mind off your toe.
Major Payne was a good man, daggone it!
Mike used that sort of “pushing you to be better” rationalization to justify his bullying to himself, but it’s not reallly true and I think he realized that before he died
He had an canonical realization that he was justifying his treatment of Amber in the same terms Blaine was.
Either way, there will always be FAAAAAAAAAAACE involved
I can only assume that Mary is still standing immediately off panel.
I think it’s fair to say on Ruth’s part this was self defence… this time. I mean, your door gets kicked open and then someone puts an elbow to your throat, even after you try to end the interaction peacefully, what’re you gonna do?
what do you want jennifer
I think she got it. Validation of everything she thinks is true.
Pretty sure this is exactly the response she was trying to get.
Affirmation that she has changed for the better and everyone else has not and she definitely is doing better than everyone else because she doesn’t have a problem they have a problem.
Or maybe she just thrives on drama, and her mask has been slipping all day.
I mean, as far as drama goes, we know she likes it. She said to hook it into her veins when she thought Sal was jealous of her.
So that part isn’t in question, just the rest.
She wanted Ruth to react violently and therefore prove all her niceness was a socially polite fake sham. Because you know, when you push someone into a corner that reaction and only that reaction is truthful and honest as it conveniently validates your personal narrative about them.
Girlfriend ni youkoso!
GOD DAMMIT, RUTH.
I was rooting for you! WE ALL were rooting for you!
But to be fair, elbow to your neck, what are your choices? She attempted deescalation, but it didn’t work. Her door was already open, so she couldn’t have slipped behind. Jennifer gave her very little choices, especially when RA training is insufficient on how to engage in stuff like harm reduced self-defense or therapeutic holds.
She acknowledged her feelings, but also knew that acting on them could be harmful.
Call Jason for help!
…
…
okay, that’d be silly.
Someone kicks your door in. You try to reason with them. They throw an elbow into your throat. You react with violence for self-preservation. You did nothing wrong.
I really have no objections to how Ruth handled this.
Whatever, she’s fine.
Yeah, I’m disappointed she still carries a torch for Billiefer, too.
I feel like I’m rereading the asshole comments about how Jennifer was definitely right to leave Ruth after Ruth snapped at her trying to get them to keep drinking, or how Tall Rachel is actually in the right to wait until Ruth was at her absolute lowest to say “You’re a monster and you will always be one.” Then again, this is the comment section that defends Mike on the regular, I shouldn’t be expecting better.
Tall Rachel can fuck off and stay there, but I honestly think it’s fine for Billie to have left after Ruth snapped about the drinking. Maybe her reasoning was shit, but it’s not like they’re especially healthy for each other, so any distance is progress.
We’re talking about the whole “mimosas for breakfast, flippantly downplaying your concerns, cold shoulder until the next evening, land Ruth in the ER” arc, right? Because I still don’t get what Jennie was passive-aggressively trying to accomplish in that one.
I’d link to individual strips but I’ll get auto-moderated, so it’s basically all of their appearances in these two chapters:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/category/comic/book-9-comic/02-but-the-sun-still-shines/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/category/comic/book-9-comic/04-vote-for-robin/
Ruth: “You were the one who walked away!”
Billiefer: “Yeah! ‘Cause now I was trying to get rid of you! How dare you let me :(“
(More comments, more links)
Here’s where Ruth snaps at her for nudging her back to the bottle:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-9-comic/02-but-the-sun-still-shines/bones/
“Stop encouraging me to drink because booze will fuck with the medication I need to not want to kill myself” is a pretty good reason if you ask me.
Wait, reading your comment again I think you mean Jennifer’s reasoning for leaving was shit? In which case we’re in violent agreement.
She was trying to get Ruth to just box up and ignore her problems, just like she does herself. As a certain talking hedgehog once said, that’s no good.
A wise hedgehog, truly.
My understanding of what Jennifer was trying to do at the time: At first she was in denial about what she was doing to Ruth by bringing up booze all the time. That ended when Ruth snapped at her. She then tried to drive Ruth away, thinking that she could keep drinking and Ruth would get better without her. That ended when Ruth came to the bar and had to be rushed to the hospital, since Ruth was clearly not okay getting better with her. She then worried Ruth was letting her go so she could die without hurting anyone – which was part of their earlier deal – that’s the “how dare you let me” bit.
The line between kissing and violence CAN be disturbingly thin with these two.
So you bust someone’s door, physically assault them, and then act smug when they engage in the retaliation you specifically were attempting to provoke out of them.
Man, fuck Jennifer.
Oh good, I’m not the only one who sees it this way. After all that, what Ruth did, for possibly the first time, actually looked like self-defence.
Drama aside this is actually pretty useful information. Ruth clears Jennifer in the DoA power rankings. Ruth>Jennifer.
I think we established that a while ago
Wow the art has improved.
We needed up to date information. The meta’s changed since then. Jennifer’s clearly switched from telegraphed strikes to grappling. She’s also lost weight and clearly gained a bit of speed. Overall, the matchup still favors Ruth but what was one a 9-1 is probably closer to a 7-3 to Ruth.
Eh, I think it was a pretty safe assumption that it hasn’t changed. Cheerleaders are a classic dedicated support role, while Hockey Goons have some major bonuses to unarmed combat, and they’ve both only gained a few levels since that matchup.
Cheerleaders are clearly bards while hockey goons are fighters at least and possibly barbarians, so engaging in martial combat instead of spellcasting was a fail from jump for Jennifer.
I love everything about this post.
Yeah, but Jennifer isn’t just a cheerleader, but a Head Cheerleader. The job promotion allowed her the option for combat abilities as well as buffing her support ones. Also don’t think Ruth fully spec’d into the hockey goon class. She’s spent much more time in the R.A. class giving her small bonuses to authority and intimidation but it’s not specifically any combat benefits. That plus both combatants evolving fighting styles meant this matchup is closer than you’d expect.
Ruth has like two levels of assistant at most, and Jennifer having a prestige class that gives a few additional weapons skills doesn’t translate to being able to win an unarmed duel against a class that is built to win unarmed duels.
It didn’t help that Jennifer held her action after the initial surprise round, giving Ruth the opportunity to break the grapple and shove her, causing Jennifer to suffer the prone condition.
Hockey Goons are barbarians, 100%
I thought so, but I know next to nothing about hockey and didn’t want to assume.
Poor Ruth looks like she’s going to cry. That’s very sad.
What point is Jennifer trying to make? That she’s mad at the idea that ruth can change? If her happiness is dependent on somebody else’s misery that’s not going to work well
Although that seems to be the mo of her entire friend group
Yes and yes.
“If Jennifer can change, and Ruth can change, anybody can change!”
Woah, woah, woah. You’re completely misrepresenting Jennifer here.
She not JUST saying that she’s MAD at the idea Ruth can change. She’s actually saying that any change Ruth has made in her life is illegitimate, because the only REAL Ruth was the violent, clinically depressed, alcoholic who needed Billie to feel even remotely in control of herself, so therefore it’s actually in Ruth’s own best interest that they get back together in a toxic mutually abusive relationship! Which also plays nicely off of Ruth’s already-existing insecurities and lingering romantic feelings, which I’ll bet Jennifer is fully aware of.
Aren’t relationships fun?
Whoa. That’s a really dark insight, Mturtle7, Puts a different perspective on helping Joyce (though to be fair, Joyce pointed out she’s not actually that good at helping). I wonder if the intention is that Jennifer is toxic or just the Jennifer-Ruth dynamic.
What did you know, Billie? That if you randomly assaulted somebody after breaking their door, they would assault you back?
I don’t feel like that was some major revelation.
i think the subtext was jennifer confirming to herself that ruth still had feelings for her, which ruth adds a bit of credence for when she said “couldve kissed her”
think that was more a callback to what Ruth when they had their first physical confrontation, and less Ruth admitting she wants her back in her life.
I’m not sure how “Being slammed into the floor for assaulting someone” confirms that theory, but I’ve given up on Billie being intelligent.
She’s trying to prove that Ruth’s niceness is a facade, that shes angry at her, that she hates her. Because Billie believes your ex should be your enemy. And probably because she openly hates Ruth so much, and it feels some variant of off not to have that mirrored. Making herself feel better about it
I’m thinking getting thrown around by Sarah made Billifer nostalgic for the whole “getting thrown around like a rag-doll” fun her and Ruth had.
Made her feel like she could regain some control by getting out of control again. Because out-of-control behavior is familiar.
Eric Berne (misogynist), author of “Games People Play” and developer of Transactional Analysis had some insight into why some people remain in abusive/codependent relationships. (Obviously not the primary reason.) The idea is that if one partner can goad the other partner into behaving predictably, such as with a relapse, an act of physical abuse, cheating, etc., then the victim scores a “win”. (“Ha! I knew it! You’ll never change. I was right!”) Even though the predicted behavior harms and hurts the victim, the fact that the victim receives the anticipated or expected result is all that’s necessary to achieve the dopamine hit and feel the “superiority” high that keeps them in the codependent relationship.
…Again, Berne was a misogynist. I’m not condoning or espousing his ideas or his analysis. But I have fallen into the “Drama Triangle” (wherein two or more people cycle through the roles of victim/persecutor/rescuer toward each other) enough times to know how addictive drama can be, even when it’s self-destructive.
Severing yourself from the bias, baggage and bigotry that majorly afflicts “professional” psychology is a real bongo and a half, isn’t it. 🙄
Also, so sorry to hear you had to go through all that in your relationships. That must have been awful 😖
In practice you trigger it when you’re ready to handle it because it would be worse if you wait for them to stew in it first, but also aren’t always feeling up to dealing with it. I call it the “controlled detonation,” approach.
I mean there’s always abusers who play the victim but that’s not what I’m thinking of.
That’s fascinating, Joy — could you tell me more? I’d like to understand better how you see it.
Thank you!
Ah, so Jennifer is using DIFFERENT toxic logic than I expected of ‘we broke up, YOU SHOULD HATE ME, being nice to me is therefore FAKE AND LIES’.
Which is unhealthy, but unhealthy in a different way. She genuinely expects Ruth to be resentful and bitter and mean about things and if she is not, then she must be being insincere or fake socially polite. She can’t possibly actually MEAN it.
I am now edging toward the school of thought that nothing bad actually happened. Jennifer just THINKS the breakup was bad.
I’m thinking this too, or that it wasn’t actually THAT dramatic. Like it was just Ruth saying “Y’know… we should just stop” and Billie made it into a huge “YOU MUST HATE ME” thing.
Seems to me Ruth could claim self defense. Kicking in someone’s door is somewhat threatening.
100%, if anyone would be charged with assault in this situation, it’d be Jennifer, for slamming into her and not voluntarily moving away.
Even more than the door, Jennifer directly started a physical altercation.
Jennifer kicked the door in and then slammed Ruth against the wall and pinned her there. Fighting back is absolutely self-defense.
What I’m wondering is whether Ruth will realize that, or whether this will feed her belief that she’s doomed to be violent in anger forever.
Jennifer is impossible to like in this arc, and I say this as someone who has liked her in the past in spite of and/or because of how much of a fuckup she is.
I really want someone to finally tell her that her new persona is such obvious bullshit. If you actually want to be a better person then put in the fucking work.
She just spent a considerable portion of her day helping out Joyce. She didn’t do the best possible job, but come on – give the gal some credit.
She then condescended to Joyce and assaulted Ruth
After Joyce made it clear that Joyce was in crisis and needed to speak to Jennifer’s familiar old drama-queen hot-mess persona, “Billie,” not the competent and confident new “Jennifer”.
I mean, is that her being a better person than before? It’s good, of course, don’t get me wrong, but it’s exactly the same kind of good thing she would have done pre-Jennifer. That’s not really what I meant.
She’s high on her own supply of bullshit. The mask just started slipping in this chapter.
I don’t even necessarily think that Jennifer is aiming to be a ‘better person’, because that would require a degree of honesty with herself that she is refusing to engage in because of how deeply insecure she is about being a bad person.
She’ll do anything to avoid reflecting on the ways she hurts others and what that might say about her. Part of her alcohol addiction, but her desire to ‘reinvent herself’ over and over is her recognizing that there’s something wrong, but deciding to skip over the step that requires real reflection on what the problems are and how to fix them–and instead just bulldozing straight ahead into ‘okay well I’m just going to change EVERYTHING I possibly can all at once and that’ll get the job done, surely’.
Not even when she’s actively calling herself poison is she actually reflecting on her problems–she just wallows in misery, or lashes out, and then probably drinks or does something else to forget about it and go back to pretending her problems don’t exist.
Jennifer threw the first assault. Near kicked in the door and elbowed Ruth’s throat. Legally that’s on Jen honestly. It was a commiserate amount of force and Ruth has no formalized martial arts training to make her hands-throwing more of a deadly weapon than Jennifer’s.
Also, play stupid games Jennifer, earn stupid prizes. Ruth genuinely missed the lover she had, but clearly 1, no longer views herself worthy to pursue or have Jennifer, and 2, bitterness has clearly poisoned the well in her eyes.
Frankly nothing Ruth could have done in this situation was going to win. Be nice? Already got throat-elbowed for that. Own up to damages? Jennifer has refused to hear it multiple times and is still arguing past current Ruth, towards past Ruth who dared to question what had happened being good or bad or whos fault, whatever happened. And should Ruth have pushed past Jen’s explicit wish to move on and that she’s committed, to kiss her sorry? No… nope thats not fair to expect or be angry about not getting.
“Knew it?” You really should have already, but you really clearly don’t.
Kinda noticed the middle pannel of yesterday’s page, both of their eyes softened. Conditioning, but also I don’t think either would have been unhappy immediately if they kissed.
Still glad Ruth is finally a fraction more adjusted than her ex.
i don’t get it
to be clear I can guess several things but I feel like I’m supposed to understand completely
Jennifer thinks she won some big moral victory.
She didn’t.
Jennifer thinks she has proved a point that Ruth’s niceness was insincere fake social politeness.
But in the same way of proving someone has an anger problem by pushing their buttons until they snap at you where other answers will not be accepted.
Thanks! I think I would have needed the clarification anyway, but I looked at yesterday’s comic and realized that I did not retain almost anything that Billie said, so that helps me see it now.
That thing you said, “proving someone has an anger problem by pushing their buttons until they snap at you”, I think that’s called reactive abuse. It’s also complete bullshit and deserves no less than what Ruth gave Billie in yesterday’s strip. If you wanna provoke a violent reaction, you deserve whatever pain comes your way, because at that point it’s your own damn fault.
Can you tell I don’t like when people do that?
So basically “fuck around, find out”?
Sounds about right!
Trust me Axel, you’re not alone. I think this scene is supposed to feel kind of unsettling and confusing, similar to how unsettled and confused both Ruth and Jennifer feel right now!
See also: Jason’s presence in this scene. It just hit me right now that as an outsider with little context, he works pretty well as an audience proxy!
Nope, pretty sure that constitutes battery.
Also, since Jennifer was making an assault first, Ruth should be in the clear.
I think the important thing is we all agree Jason’s bow tie spun like a propeller and made a little “WHIZZ” sound when Ruth said the wham line
technically self defense, Jennifer kicked her door and then pinned her against the wall. For once, Ruth was in the right to beat her ass.
Knew it… Knew it WHAT? Jennifer/Billie is really sad to see, good thing Ruth was able to refuse her. I hope she and Jason will discuss whath appened, she needs to talk with someone about this NOW. Jennifer… she needs to be able to avoid Mary and her comments long the way for her room. But maybe even the hateful Mary was scared by what’s just happened.
I feel so sad for Ruth. And for Billifer.
“Billifer”
Thanks I hate it.
Billifer… actually, this name is perfect. I will use it in the future comments.
Better than “Jellingsley”.
That sounds like something Smuckers would manufacture.
Jennifer, how are you gonna ask Ruth to kick your ass and then get mad when she does????
She’s not mad. She’s happy. She got what she wanted. (Although she was angling for the kiss, too.)
*Plays “Bad Guy” on the hacked muzak.*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyDfgMOUjCI
What
What did that love Jennifer?
Ever heard of self affirmation bias, Jennifer?
You mean confirmation bias?
…Although, self-affirmation bias might work as well.
Haha
Call back
Pleasegetbacktogether
I really, really want to like these people. But they are making it so hard sometimes.
2nd panel : “pathetic”
Yep, Billie really proved her point by provoking her that was being pleasant to her into body-slamming her instead. She’s really made a sterling victory there.
Supposing assault charges were filed, and supposing Jennifer’s parents cared at least as much as Ruth’s guardian, I am curious who’d win in getting their way, assuming that justice would be irrelevant (as is the style of the time).
i sympathize with Ruth,
I’ve had a similar situation happen to me with an ex, except it wasn’t this violent (that’s only reserved for bed or for when I’m being sexually harassed)
Anyway, it’s clear that both girls are still in love with each other but have gotten healthy enough to know that after whatever caused their breakup, they’re not healthy enough to handle each other, for now.
they’re both definitely still hella fucked in the head, Jennifer probably more than Ruth, but I’m already predicting right now, that as the story progresses over our real world years, they will each get better and healthier and grow, they will approach each other again, this time like normal people with only moderate levels of blood lust, and as they talk things over, they will eventually get back together as a healthy loving couple with a long term future, but this is the super duper end goal, no way we’re seeing it in the next year and a half AT LEAST.
(also, being honest, I think this violence turned Ruth on, and I’m almost certain it turned Jennifer on too, these girls are so fucked up)
oh, no question
You know what, I accept your headcanon. Far Future Ruth/Jennifer FTW.
(sorry, the RSS is broken again)
I miss those crazy kids 🙂
Bring on the flashbacks!!
Jason, if you’re smart you will leave right now and never return.
And now I have a Beach Boys song rattling around in my head
(And Then I Kissed Her)
congrats, you pissed off the suicidal girl and got her to show anger.
so, what’s your prize?
Hopefully a realization that running away from the person she actually is and going aggro on anyone who reminds her of it won’t make it go away!
I think a point is being missed. Billie is hurting without Ruth. She clearly misses her, and she’s angry that Ruth seems to be moving on and is supportive of HER moving on. But neither of them wants to. They are both pretending. Because as toxic as it was there’s still love there. What they have with their boyfriends is not love, and love is what they’re both really after because neither gets it at home.
I don’t think they are one another’s problems. Their anger and emotional damage is the problem, and boys aren’t going to fix that.
Good insight!
I sense an underlying belief in your argument that I can’t quite catch – such as, that they can only feel one way about something at a time, or something like that.
Neither of them wants to move on, but also, they both want to move on (because some part of them wants to be capable, mature, and to feel good in life).
Jennifer really does want to be all grown up and beyond her “phase” with alcoholism and depression and Ruth. She wants to have changed, she wants ‘Jennifer’ to be real already.
She *also* wants ‘Jennifer’ to not be real, she wants to be poison-hurricane-Billie who can only be with poison-hurricane-Ruth, she wants all that drama and excitement and powerful adrenaline, she wants to destroy everything else she’s built in life as a testament to how powerfully they love each other.
It’s not a healthy idea of romance, but, that’s the one she’s got.
With her desire to be OK vs. her desire to be Very Not OK, Jennifer probably feels like she’s a thin veneer of maturity over the toxic drama-hurricane within. She suspects that Ruth feels the same combination, and she’s offended that Ruth might act like she has one motivation but not the other.
If Ruth’s calm is a lie, that means they can have some of what’s familiar, what gets them going, what makes them feel… not good exactly, but invigorated and desirous and desired. Jennifer still wants that, a lot. (She hasn’t even faced that it’s deeply unclear whether she can have that feeling from within a positive relationship.)
How do you navigate it when you want to be a functional mature non-depressed non-alcoholic adult, but you also really want that exciting drama-hurricane (which you define as a key component of love)? How can Jennifer ever have both?
(I suppose she could have a stable life with the occasional torrid affair that threatens to destroy it, or a whole lot of kink-play with a safeword, or an off-again on-again relationship that keeps her mired in the toxic disaster that makes her feel alive and in love… that last one seems to be the one that Billie is subconsciously angling for. It would be better to go take up skydiving, but, that’s the way it goes.)
They wanted to move on together, but had very different ideas of what “moving on” is and entails.
This is some good shit. Highkey agree with everything here.
I’m really confused. What was Jennifer expecting to get out of this interaction with Ruth?
A rush.
Okay, I think that’s part of it; there’s also the part that’s like, “This Ruth isn’t acting like the Ruth I know” and wanting that Ruth back/wanting Ruth to cooperate with the script in Jennifer’s head.
Railed, I would assume.
This response. Ruth did her a kindness.
Hey Zee, if you see this and have the energy to do so, could you share some resources related to aceflux identity? If there is much, I mean; I’ve read the top Google results on the wikis, just wondering if there are other things on being/understanding aceflux identity that you think are good.
by god was i confused for a full god damn minute until i decided to reread this and realized you were not in fact looking for information on acid reflux identities
I mean, I’m that too, but I have a better grasp on that one.
What’s with all the comments about “legally, X did this, therefore [legal repercussion]”? This ain’t a comic with real life stern-faced laws happening after fights. I think the closest any of these kids have gotten to legal trouble (since they arrived at college) is when Amber turned that one guy into spaghetti and his mom decided to sue her mom, and we haven’t even seen any of that.
People tend to take this strip a bit too literally.
Right?!?! I mean, if I were after something 100% realistic all the time, I wouldn’t be looking at a COMIC, just saying.
We’re learning here how to behave.
Kappa.
Jason brought up the concept of assault, and Ruth seems to think she commited it. Most readers seem to agree it was entirely justified self defense. Legal repercussions may never happen but “Who’s at fault” matters to people.
Yeah, it’s about the only thing that matters to some people.
also, in real life, most people don’t face legal repercussions for day-to-day shiti that’s technically “illegal.”
and recurring characters in this comic are rapists and murderers…like..lmao
You got that right. Go figure, in the US, corruption and incompetence in law enforcement is pretty much a fact of life. 😑
To be fair, the only recurring characters who were rapists or murderers are either dead or in a coma last we checked.
If we’re going by that logic…
The witness has a dubious visa and the perp has mob ties.
Nothing’s happening.
That’s not assault. That’s self-defense. When Jennifer forearm checked Ruth into the wall? THAT was assault. Jennifer got shoved to the ground to break the hold. When someone touches you and you don’t want them to, you can make them stop.
It’s sad that it’s come to this, but Jennifer is sicker than Billie ever was.
man i want them to be together so bad but they really do bring out the worst in each other
…..or is it just jenny that brings out the worst in people ? :ponderingface:
In no world is Ruth pushing back assault. It’s not her fault Billie kicked her door and then grabbed and pushed her first.
I hope the next strip includes Jason going “What? I was talking about her kicking in the door and slamming you against the wall” or some equivalent
Willis will change scenes so that it feels like time has passed when he changes back. I wonder, is this the climax? Do we get some kind of denounment? Or will we get a skit with, idk, Roz and Sal or something before cutting to Dina before cutting to Jennifer performing everything is a-okay to Asher who grabs her for a smooch and says woah what’s with the goose egg on your head lets go to the hospital.
Hm…well, the chapter “This Was Halloween” starts Saturday, so if it’s a flashback right away, that only gives us a day. Tomorrow could be Jason saying something like, “What exactly happened between you two?” and then we dive in. Or it could be not a direct setup at all.
It’s just too bad the static image webcomic format can’t do a wobbly flashback transition as a character’s voice echoes “back then… back then… back then…”
Panel Six Ruth; her sadness and despair are hurting me.