The one I’m thinking of has “hey Buddy” in the middle, then has as its intersections with other circles as:
“Petting a Dog” overlaps with “Starting a fight” to give us: “Hey Buddy, you wanna go outside?”
“Starting a fight” overlaps with “consoling a child” to give is: “Hey Buddy, you want your mommy?”
“Consoling a child” overlaps with “petting a dog” to give us: “Hey Buddy, shh, it’s okay.”
I’ve used the same language to describe my own introverted behavior, I think the phrase itself is mostly unproblematic.
Ethan is being mean here, but (IMO) that comes from his general tone and the specific accusation that Amber was hoping she could try to talk to him without actually having to talk to him.
The only problem I can see with that is that Ethan isn’t introverted, and in general one shouldn’t needlessly call them out on that stuff, since it’s not introverts’ fault they’re like that and can’t really help it anyway.
You are making it sound like there is something wrong with being an introvert though. I’m sure you don’t mean to, but it can certainly be read that way.
@Felix, Yeah I FOR SURE didn’t mean it like that, I just meant that it’s kinda pointless and trolling to point that out about them (myself included) when it’s just a given for them and if that just another way to be.
Being a socially-challenged neurodivergent (S.A.D. and vocal dysphoria) I know from really painful experience just how uncomfortable it is to be called attention to for stuff like that and be made even more self-conscious about it.
But on this note, (not to blame you for anything) it also pays to be a little more tranquil and give people in general the benefit of the doubt on what they say. On a multicultural frontier such as the internet, misunderstandings are better off treated as the rule, not the exception.
Yeah, this conversation is definitely going to be about how each of them are not doing so great, and are having strong grieving reactions that hurt each other.
Grieving sucks, they don’t even have tools or supports, it’ll be a thing.
Ethan will lash out. (That’s new behaviour for him, since Mike’s death. He’s always been a peaceful and passive dude, like his dad.)
Amber will mainly lash inwards. (She finds it comfortably familiar to hate on herself.)
Their childhood pattern is that Ethan tries to steadily comfort and support Amber, and Amber tries to defend Ethan. Ethan may be breaking up their pattern by refusing to comfort Amber. It’s interesting, I like it.
See, I took that as a nervous, socially-anxious and guilt-ridden attempt to be positive. Whatever else has passed between them, they’ve been friends a very long time, and saying that up front indicates she still considers him one of her best buds. It also sounds a bit like a failed-but-tried conveyance of sympathy. But can absolutely understand it could be read in many ways (and Ethan isn’t in the best head-space to take it kindly).
Oooooof course I also misremembered it as coming from Amber and not Ethan. Okay, yeah, the emphasis is seriously indicative she’s being seen as everything but.
Amber did spend a fair amount of time (the whole run of the comic) wearing down Ethan’s emotional reserves before possibly/apparently dropping him like a stone in the wake of Mike’s death. And now she’s pacing back and forth in front of his door, hoping she doesn’t have to talk to him but still wanting a halo for reaching out. I’d be salty at her too.
Amazi-Girl knew Mike went splat, but Amber didn’t.
Ethan might not know how deep that rabbit hole goes, or fully understand the split, so he feels Amber deliberately withheld information about what happened to Mike (until after it all flashed back to her in the kidnapping basement).
He realized when she said she didn’t have AG’s memories in the aftermath that this was, in fact, something REALLY significant and a VERY deep issue. Nonetheless, the fact that it got to the point where she and AG weren’t sharing memories and none of their friends knew (except Walky, and I’m not certain Amber was aware he figured it out because he’d interacted with both of them and noticed they didn’t remember all the interactions)? Yeah, that is deeply concerning, and the fact that Amber didn’t seem to treat this as something that was deeply worrisome and actively dangerous, to herself (it’s generally not good if you’re a vigilante who doesn’t remember who you might be pissing off) and ultimately to all of them (because she wasn’t aware to warn everyone her and Becky’s evil dads were on the loose and murderously violent) did seem to anger Ethan once he knew. So, he seemed to be angry about the situation even once he realized there was a dissociating issue in play, but more angry that Amber let this very unsustainable thing become status quo long enough that it COULD have really dangerous consequences. Which, as someone who cares about Amber, is also kinda fair – it’s hard to watch someone you care about not take care of themselves, even if it HADN’T endangered him and Mike in the process.
If anything I would say Amber tried repeatedly to avoid relying on Ethan. She felt like she had to protect him from Sal and took more responsible for his emotional wellbeing than was hers to have. And despite saying he was worried about her to Danny a few times, he didn’t really ever actively seek her out and spent more time editing Transformers wikia and directing Mike at people to destroy on forums.
The one time I can remember him showing up when Amber had a bad time was after ‘Ryan’ being stabbed… And that still wasn’t his idea, Danny was the one who texted him and he offered her a toy that he wasn’t even really gifting her so much as offering to share. Mostly they just happened to cross paths whenever they did talk. He didn’t actually really act on his concern for her on his own and he didn’t seem to fully understand that things that worked for him, weren’t necessarily going to work as well or straightforwardly for Amber such as talking to Sal.
We saw before the time skip that Ethan needed space to be mad without Amber accepting blame for what happened that wasn’t hers to have. And he also felt clearly some blame towards Amber for not telling him Mike was in the hospital despite how irrational it was (she couldn’t act on memory she didn’t have at the time or decide to get help based on events she was unaware of at the time).
It seems more like the ‘space’ turned into a rift after Mike’s death and I’m pretty sure if Amber was the one who pulled away, she wouldn’t be trying to connect. It feels more like Ethan is bitter about Mike’s death and is extra resentful about all the events around it, whether it is fair to be or not, because grief is sometimes like that.
Yeah, the Ethan/Amber dynamic falling apart seems to have been something building since before they got to college – she wore herself out trying to be A+ Ally for Ethan after prom led to his coming out, so he gave her some space, but then she had a massive blowup at him when he shoved himself back in the closet to date Joyce (and she was upset that essentially, he wouldn’t do that for Amber, which does at least indicate he took the lead coming out and breaking up,) and then she started isolating because she was Bad for Ethan and All Good People, and then things just really started deteriorating, especially as Amber and AG’s divide got worse. Ethan didn’t know his best friend was dissociating to the point of not having all her memories, and that’s worrisome! And Amber had accepted that no one and nothing could help her, so she didn’t tell anyone that she wasn’t sharing memories with the other inhabitant of her body anymore. Understandable thought process given the circumstances, but the consequences for her friends were dire – even if nothing could have been done for Mike once AG got him to the hospital, there’s a chance they could have avoided being kidnapped if AG and Amber had been on speaking terms. Amber’s trying to take everything on herself has led to some serious trouble.
Add grief on top of that, and well, we get this, where they’re both handling this terribly in part because they’ve both been isolating themselves from the world… including the one person they used to find ‘safe,’ once upon a time.
She admits it was accurate, though – that she was trying but kind of hoping to fail so that she could say she tried without having to interact. Still, with things this awkward and Amber isolating herself, the same way Ethan seems to be, I can get this first step being really scary.
Addendum: Any conflict that occurs because a fictional character performs an action that is not the most optimal solution to an ongoing or sudden problem is actually bad writing. If they are problematic towards each other then they are extremely unlikable, and the story is attempting to force me to see them as pure, noble and just in all moral circumstance.
I don’t know how much you know about character writing (I’m an expert) but
That is equally possible, which is funny, since I currently rank Malaya as my least favorite person in this. So the idea that her pet is a person means Malaya comes dead last compared to an iguana.
I really like the combination, though. It almost looks like Fuckface is sitting on the top of your Joyce avatar’s head, just moved over a little to one side. 🙂
I dunno, I’m pretty okay with Ethan’s response here. Amber spent the run of the comic pre-timeskip wearing down Ethan’s emotional reserves and randomly exploding, and then (it seems at the moment) dropped him like a stone in the wake of Mike’s injury/death. And that’s before you take into account the ‘joy’ that was their last onscreen interaction.
And now she’s pacing outside his door, hoping he’s not there so she can wear the ‘I TRIED’ halo in case anyone asks later. I’d be salty too. Shit or get off the pot, Amber.
Randomly exploding? I don’t think getting mad at him for going *back* in the closet to date Joyce after coming out just in time to reject her, qualifies as random. In their last interaction, Ethan blamed Amber for not retroactively knowing that not immediately finding a DID-trained therapist (of which there are almost none) would result in Mike’s death. And I don’t think it’s clear whether Ethan pushed Amber away or Amber pushed Ethan or it was mutual. Amber needed Ethan’s support just as much, if not more, than Ethan needed hers in the wake of Mike’s death.
I have yet to be grabbed by Ethan’s new situation / role in the story.
I figure this’ll change with time, but right now he’s *just* mopey and to such a wildly harsher degree than anyone else. Amber is going through much the same, but her experience is…I dunno, more interesting to read? So far Ethan seems to JUST be sad, which is sometimes very real-life accurate but I’m not so sure it will make for a good story here. I wonder if Ethan is no longer truly a cast member anymore, or if we’ll ever get let back into his head…or will he just be in the background from here on out?
My guess is that we’re right about to get into the depth and interesting nature of it. Potentially via flashbacks, and potentially to that night of halloween that was A Big Deal off screen for a lotta people.
I don’t think a character (who just happened to be queer) dying is at all the same as “bury your gays”, especially not when well over 50% of the cast–and that’s just counting the characters on the Official Cast Page!–are GRSM, and they hence make a majority of the comic’s available characters.
In short, when you have a Cast Full of Gay, one of them dying–especially for reasons entirely unrelated to his sexuality–isn’t really an example of “Bury Your Gays”.
It’s worth acknowledging he’s not talking about a complete lack of queer characters in the series, he’s talking about how there are, comparatively, few queer men in comparison to queer women; if Ruth acted with integrity in this series there’d still be other bi women to follow, let alone any woman under the queer umbrella.
It is true that Mike’s death slashed a third of the queer male cast, no ifs and or buts, and the “just so happened to be” line isn’t really helpful in this scenario even if I do think it’s true to Mike’s character. He’s a character where I really only started to like him upon textual canonization of being into men besides “slept with Ethan for one panel in Shortpacked” but eventually came to realize that killing him off was absolutely for the best, it doesn’t really assuage adam’s problems. The way I’ve come to process this is that the true culprit hiding under the mask that the Scooby Gang reveals is a lack of queer men in fiction overall, and therefore the stories that do feature them have to carry the weight of far too many desires from an audience of queer men who want to be seen in fiction, because we’ve been starved for too long.
And, y’know, that’s worked out pie in the sky for me here. Danny’s the most affirming bisexual narrative I’ve ever seen in my life, Ethan finally interests me as a character where someone mostly defined by his effortless ability to gently care for everyone around him got his fucking teeth kicked in, and Mike’s dead except Mike provides the most interesting story he possibly could to the rest of the cast by being dead. Hurting Amber and Ethan one last time with the revelation that the Mike they wanted always existed right before losing him forever is, actually, the best way to use the character as he’s been presented in DoA.
Sad queer men can exist, queer men can die, because a story can be anything, even if those stories feel like they come at our expense in ways that are tailored for a straight audience who needs The Gays to be sad and miserable forever. That’s happened, that it happened for so long is probably why it’s easy to be upset with a story where Ethan is sad that his sorta boyfriend died.
But I don’t think the solution to that is that Ethan’s story does not happen as it is now, what I think is that adam black deserves stories that fulfill his wishes for being seen in fiction, so that Ethan’s story can happen and not have to carry that weight.
Agreed. This strip could use more queer dudes of note, media needs more queer dudes in general with meaningful storylines so that one single piece of diverse media isn’t the end-all be-all of representation, and in that respect Mike was loadbearing… he just also wasn’t working as a character anymore and kind of HAD to die so that at least he could get one last big psychological fuckery over on Amber, Ethan, and Walky. Otherwise, what could Mike do? Have feelings for Ethan, admit he only slept with him in the first place to screw with Danny and Ethan’s mutual crush, and prompt Amber and Ethan having e-fucking-nough? Admit he was responsible for Blaine driving them to that field trip with the same effect? Or just keep being a douchebag no one in the strip liked forever, cutting him off from meaningful storylines because not even his friends trusted him? There weren’t a lot of good options.
Seriously, Mike had nothing going on story wise. Redemption arcs take time and a lot of screen time, none of which Mike can take up without taking over. Meanwhile, what niche can Mike fill over ‘mega asshole?’ that other characters don’t do better? Good natured wise assery works better from Becky and Walky, Carla is a prankster who lives in the hall, Sal, Jennifer, and Sarah all work as curmudgeonly but still good people to have around.
There is an issue that, since a much lower proportion of the cast is male to begin with (five male characters on the cast page, six when you add in Mike, to fourteen female characters plus AG not being counted separately for fifteen, and two nonbinary ones,) killing off one queer dude equated to a full third of the queer dudes on the cast and made another one very depressed (and torpedoed any chance of a relationship between the two surviving ones, for those hoping for a m/m relationship to get focus. Ethan sure as hell isn’t up for a relationship with ANYONE right now, even if another queer guy showed up as actual cast.)
However, the fact remains that Mike wasn’t working as a character anymore. He hadn’t been for a while. In DoA’s less Wacky Hijinks-laden universe, his comedic sociopathy was coming off a lot less comedic and more, well, sociopathic. Only a sizable portion of the fanbase continually made excuses for him, saying he didn’t INTEND for Ethan to take the ‘go back into the closet’ or Amber to take the ‘if you date nice guys and we relationship based off our parents, that means YOU’RE the abusive one’ seriously, but also that his assholishness was calculated to make them be better people even though it consistently didn’t work that way. Some of that was probably lingering affection from Shortpacked, but it was also VERY noticeable that Mike could record his roommate crying repeatedly (once because of a breakup, and once because he arranged an elaborate hoax for this purpose) and get a pass for it, where characters who were female or nonbinary, frequently characters of color, were getting FAR MORE FLAK for far less dramatic meanness. (See: Carla. See: Malaya, constantly, SO MUCH, and I believe Willis has said their dialogue was sometimes taken from Walkyverse Mike verbatim. I do know Anna’s was, and while a more minor character she did get some critique, though mostly of the ‘yeah, that’s not actually a good look’ variety from people who didn’t make excuses for Mike. See, more recently, Booster being deemed pretentious for the unforgivable crime of having hobbies.) This also made a redemption arc for Mike a much harder prospect, because that portion of the fanbase didn’t recognize what he was doing was wrong. Hell, Mike’s final strips had him ADMITTING he fucks with Amber psychologically because he finds it entertaining, and then explicitly realizing that his justification of ‘toughening them up for their own good’ was the same one Blaine used, and people STILL make excuses for him! A redemption arc for Mike would have required way too much focus time and absolutely no slack whatsoever for him to be an asshole, ever again, because he’d been abusing the three characters he interacted with most, and at that point he’s no longer Mike and people would want the asshole back because they didn’t see a problem with his behavior. Not really workable.
Further, even though Mike had caught Feelings for Ethan, the years of abuse he’d subjected him and Amber to meant that starting a relationship with either of them would have been on uneven ground. As one flashback strip stated, Mike would deny being friends with Ethan and Amber nine times out of ten – but that one time he’d say yes, to keep hope alive. I don’t think either of them could EVER date Mike in this universe and feel secure in that fact. Certainly not in the timeframe we’d be seeing from this strip. Yeah, Ruth/Jennifer was a hot disaster founded on bullying and alcoholism and suicidal depression. But Ruth stopped being terrible to Jennifer before the sexy bisexual suicide pact, and they hadn’t known each other nearly as long. Five years of Mike bullying Ethan and Amber meant those patterns of behavior were well-established. Which meant Mike couldn’t grow into the Mike from late Shortpacked who consistently used his assholery for good, and was willing to show his vulnerable side. Not with either of them, at least – as Ethan and Mike’s last strip together demonstrated, Ethan couldn’t trust Mike when he was being vulnerable.
The timeskip means MOST of the cast has gotten through the worst of the mourning, but yeah, Ethan and Amber and Walky are still clearly impacted (so, one gay male character to two straight ones.) I think it’s being set up for those three’s arcs this ‘season’ to include coming to terms with the fact that Mike was a bad friend but they still feel bad about his death, but yeah, that will take a while. Nonetheless, I think the ‘Mike was a bad friend’ arc would have happened even if he lived. I’d been thinking it for YEARS. Ethan and Amber’s friendship clearly broke with Mike’s death, after months of fraying. I also hope they’ll rebuild a bit, but that will also take a while. I can see a throughline from their interactions in the hospital to his line here, but yeah, he’s not softening it for Amber this time because he’s depressed and they’re on the outs and she’s been avoiding him. I get that this isn’t fun to watch, especially because there’s exactly one queer male character in the main cast who’s anywhere remotely stable right now (Danny,) but that doesn’t mean Mike was still working as a cast member or that his death wasn’t a final catalyst for things that had been building for a long time. Ethan’s clearly very depressed and, yeah, got a radical redesign, but I don’t think the depression is going to stand forever now that he’s been reintroduced. We’re meeting him at rock bottom. (And I’m going to note that Amber is just as depressed after there was some hope of her starting to take care of herself psychologically pre-skip. She is CLEARLY in worse shape than she was before Mike’s death. We’re used to Amber being seriously depressed and engaged in a sort of passive self-harm, but she’s not doing well either and this is our first storyline focusing on her since the timeskip. Ethan’s been back five strips and both scenes so far were him interacting with people he had a falling out with before Mike’s death. And he managed to have an awkward but neutral interaction with Danny last night.)
It sucks, and we need more queer male characters in the cast who are actual CHARACTERS, but ‘because he’s one third of the queer male rep in the cast’ was not a compelling enough reason to keep Mike around when he had SO MUCH baggage. I still feel like Mike’s death was a waste that lets him off easy for his actions instead of the hard work of consistently not being an asshole anymore, but it’s pretty clear he’s dead so we have to deal with it or let it be a stop reading point. Presumably, there is some sort of plan Willis has for using his death that couldn’t be done with him going home to recover offscreen forever, if only ‘another vector for characters to process Complicated Feelings About Deaths Of People Who Mattered To You But Weren’t Good For You’. A couple months means that even if Ethan and Amber are still very much grieving, it can START to heal by now.
Alex is Fantastic!
Sierra’s probably doing fine, except for Midwest Winters + barefoot girl = lost toes.
Unfortunately, Mary and Rahda are both probably feeling pretty good and satisfied with life.
If she sticks to dry pavement she’ll be fine, granules of rock salt hurt worse than the cold snow does. You warm up again surprisingly fast, too. Besides, she’s been at it for years, she’ll have a much higher tolerance than someone who wears shoes 23.5 hours a day and thinks tile floors are painful.
(Sometimes it takes longer to bundle up to put the trash out than it does to actually just put the trash out, so you just deal with the cold for a minute.)
Wow willis, really going the extra mile to make me hate all the characters now eh?
First billie- oh no, excuse me, Jeniffer, and now Ethan?
Well at least Ruth is the same. Same-ish
No but her arc had finished, she no longer desired that throne of popularity, and her and Ruth started being a normal non toxic ir self destructive relationship
3 months later- OOPS START OVER
i don’t know Corpse party but at a glance it’s not really comparable. The Amigara Fault is a ~30 page short story and it’s not gory in the least. It has more of an Edgar Allan Poe vibe you know?
I’m not sure how to rate horror in the abstract though, i enjoy horror generally and i guess it takes a lot to seriously spook me? It’s solid as existential horror goes, but it won’t keep me up at night.
Apparently Amos found it really disturbing though, so… idk!
I also don’t know Corpse Party, but I will say: The Enigma of Amigara Fault is fucked up, and I agree Poe’s a good comparison. I haven’t read *many* of his other works, but the people-sewn-together one was very fucked up but also fairly ridiculous, and Hellstar Remina has its disturbing moments but is so over-the-top that I found significant parts of it hilarious. Part disaster movie, part horror counterpart of, I dunno, Gurren Lagann or something. There’s that same sort of serial escalation going on for a lot of it, just a bit more understated and more depressing. (Note that there’s some TW-y stuff in there, mind, so you may want to look up the content warnings.)
I haven’t read the spirals one, but it sounds potentially much more horrifying. Also even weirder.
The two most disastrous characters together again. I hope this leads them to stay better, or to share their sadness sinking into it deeper, but together.
“Oh hi Jacob, um please tell Ethan I dropped by”
“I’m in here actually, Amber”
“Did you say something Jacob? Well nevermind i’ll catch him another time. OK bye then”
It’s not like it’s any one person’s “job” to be nice and accommodate everyone around them. Amber, frankly, has earned at the least a little pushback, and since Ethan’s evidently strung out these days it’s not even like he’s making the conscious decision, probably.
I can appreciate MIKE’s character death. He’s jarringly out of place in DoA’s more grounded cast. But if he starts to grow as a person, he loses what makes him quintessentially Mike.
I can understand having someone get totally and inconsolably broken by a character’s death. Grief hurts us all in different ways. Grief, to quote a certain movie, transcends value. Grief cannot be neatly exchanged for growth. Grief is worthless.
I can understand ETHAN getting totally and inconsolably broken by a character’s death-even if getting reduced to playing with toys and speaking in Beast Wars allusions is a little narmy. But grief is often messy and its expression undignified. We regress under pressure, and these are basically teenagers.
But while I can understand the logic of why Ethan would get totally and inconsolably broken by MIKE’S death, I just don’t feel it, and that’s without getting into the fact Mike’s sole positive contribution to Ethan’s life was awakening him to his white pretty privilege.
Because he had a thing for Mike but was smart enough to know it’d never actually happen because he’s an asshole, and then he found out that asshole was actually “a good person, deep down” this whole time while committing a selfless act of heroism to save the life of another close friend, and then his last words were how much he loved them both, and so the Mike that Ethan always wanted to exist only did after it was too late to see him, and then he dies and there’s no way to ever contradict that perfect image in his head anymore, because Mike’s not around to do anything to contradict it.
You can be sad someone died without mathematically calculating that they’re objectively worth being sad over, and that last line of yours sucks; Ethan finally got the first affirmation that something positive could from being gay, because everyone else turned it into a nightmare dramascape when all he wanted to do was complain about toys.
Yes, yes, I’ve been reading these comment sections and the many, many Mike deep dives they contain. I understand the mechanics of Mike’s three strip Heel-Face-plant. I just don’t like it lol
That last line of mine does suck, true. It just always grated on me that there was no middle ground between the nightmare dramascape of his past, and the harem anime his life became by the eve of the fall.
See, now I’m gonna start describing the part where a character redeems themself by dying as “heel-face-plant” from now on.
Anyway, I think an important thing to consider about Ethan’s last few months being a nightmare dramascape is that it has all been inflicted by the people he knows. He can sleep around in college because it’s not like Drew’s gonna give him heck, and sleeping around with a chain of eager dudes is the first thing that’s ever happened to Ethan this semester that didn’t involve someone, usually Amber, making his day challenging.
Everyone who’s like oh Ethan is unrecognizable now, consider: Mike. Is this not also how Mike could be? I imagine Ethan’s thought a lot and has “decided” that if Ethan loved or at least really treasured Mike, Mike couldn’t have been all that *wrong* about life
Unrelated but I’ve started my reread of doa and Jesus the comments when we first saw sal and her parents, esp with Charles’ hair comment. Even Willis had to point out how blindingly white the comments were proving to be. The people bending over backwards to defend the walkertons, even one dude blaming sal for everything and saying her parents were probably scared of her 🤦
I get we hadn’t seen their backstory yet but Jesus Christ
Ethan not only lost Mike, he was kidnapped and witnessed a murder. Then the killer was killed. All while he was there exploring sex and relationships. It’s been a busy six months for a teenager. He’s not getting nearly the help and support he needs. He may not be as messed up as Amber but it’s not a competition.
Loading ...
why did I read Ethan’s line in a Pauly Shore voice
… why would you say that?
Now that’s all I can hear.
idk who that is and i think this comment implies i should be glad?
oh i hate that avatar, did i do the right thing to change it?
Well, at least one of them has a comedic value..?
XD
Both of you could _rock_ BJ Cat with your usernames.
Hello, Mr. Willis!
11:56, clock
0935
Thanks Willis, I needed that alt text to remind me of the mountain hole horrors story.
You mean the story where the people get sucked into holes in the side of the mountain?
Climb into and get… processed, but yes
What is it called / where can I find the mountain? It sounds like fun!
The Enigma of Amigara Fault by Junji Ito. The author excels at turning disturbing metaphors into even more disturbing horror stories.
Thank you. Now go I forth to find my hole.
Or it could refer to the kindergarten in Stephen Universe, where the Gems come out of holes.
… where do you think the inspiration for THAT comes from? XD
Well instead (or rather in addition), let me remind you of they “Hey buddy” venn diagram.
Is this any association to the buddy/pal/friend Venn diagram and the “I’m not your” intersections?
The one I’m thinking of has “hey Buddy” in the middle, then has as its intersections with other circles as:
“Petting a Dog” overlaps with “Starting a fight” to give us: “Hey Buddy, you wanna go outside?”
“Starting a fight” overlaps with “consoling a child” to give is: “Hey Buddy, you want your mommy?”
“Consoling a child” overlaps with “petting a dog” to give us: “Hey Buddy, shh, it’s okay.”
messed up the link: click my username to see the image itself.
The alt text was made for you.
DRR… DRR… DRRRRR…
shit, this history haunts me since I read this shit
Isn’t this a Douglas Adams reference tho?
Just think of Billy the Mountain instead, collecting his fat calendar photo royalty checks and his wife Ethel the tree.
….growing off of his shoulder….
Now the question is if Willis had the original manga in mind, or the time a kids show referenced it
He’s linked to the manga before.
Strange things are happening to the site clock.
Also, that’s rather condescending, Ethan.
But still essentially accurate
“go back in your hole”
Surely there’s a better way of saying that part (if it had to be said at all).
He’s clearly pretty angry with her, and I don’t see what’s so bad about “go back to your hole” in specific
You don’t see how that’s condescending towards her currently introverted behavior?
I’ve used the same language to describe my own introverted behavior, I think the phrase itself is mostly unproblematic.
Ethan is being mean here, but (IMO) that comes from his general tone and the specific accusation that Amber was hoping she could try to talk to him without actually having to talk to him.
The only problem I can see with that is that Ethan isn’t introverted, and in general one shouldn’t needlessly call them out on that stuff, since it’s not introverts’ fault they’re like that and can’t really help it anyway.
That is so much more condescending than the thing Ethan said.
I definitely didn’t mean to imply that you were doing that! You definitely weren’t and I’m sorry if I caused you any stress.
You are making it sound like there is something wrong with being an introvert though. I’m sure you don’t mean to, but it can certainly be read that way.
He’s just using it as an easy target to jab her.
@Felix, Yeah I FOR SURE didn’t mean it like that, I just meant that it’s kinda pointless and trolling to point that out about them (myself included) when it’s just a given for them and if that just another way to be.
Being a socially-challenged neurodivergent (S.A.D. and vocal dysphoria) I know from really painful experience just how uncomfortable it is to be called attention to for stuff like that and be made even more self-conscious about it.
But on this note, (not to blame you for anything) it also pays to be a little more tranquil and give people in general the benefit of the doubt on what they say. On a multicultural frontier such as the internet, misunderstandings are better off treated as the rule, not the exception.
Yeah, we can say that about ourselves, but it’s mean coming from someone else. Ethan’s clearly being a jerk here.
Fully disagree. By modern standards the clock remains marginally precise, but at 14 minutes off, is woefully inaccurate.
Honestly, I find that “Buddy” a whole lot more condescending and passive-agressive than what he said about Amber wanting to go back to her hole.
There’s so much subtext in that sole word, and all of it is negative.
Yeah, this conversation is definitely going to be about how each of them are not doing so great, and are having strong grieving reactions that hurt each other.
Grieving sucks, they don’t even have tools or supports, it’ll be a thing.
Ethan will lash out. (That’s new behaviour for him, since Mike’s death. He’s always been a peaceful and passive dude, like his dad.)
Amber will mainly lash inwards. (She finds it comfortably familiar to hate on herself.)
Their childhood pattern is that Ethan tries to steadily comfort and support Amber, and Amber tries to defend Ethan. Ethan may be breaking up their pattern by refusing to comfort Amber. It’s interesting, I like it.
See, I took that as a nervous, socially-anxious and guilt-ridden attempt to be positive. Whatever else has passed between them, they’ve been friends a very long time, and saying that up front indicates she still considers him one of her best buds. It also sounds a bit like a failed-but-tried conveyance of sympathy. But can absolutely understand it could be read in many ways (and Ethan isn’t in the best head-space to take it kindly).
Oooooof course I also misremembered it as coming from Amber and not Ethan. Okay, yeah, the emphasis is seriously indicative she’s being seen as everything but.
Fly home, “Buddy.”
Emothan works alone.
You win today.
The lat text : why would you say that. whyyyy
This is genuinely the best Ethan’s ever looked, despite this clearly being him in a really bad spot healthwise
Please talk.
Emo Ethan is going to be a bummer for years, isn’t he?
How do we fix him?
Emo Ethan… Atheist Joyce, what’s next, Mean Marcie?
Nobody’s safe! EVERYBODY’s gonna get it!
Bitter Becky?
…Lawless Lucy?
Lucy Lawless? Xena probably wouldn’t be interested in being a student at IU but maybe being a staff member of the ROTC program.
Well, their teenagers, so possibly with genitals.
Which would also cause more problems, but y’know.
Not a bad trade, IMO.
when in doubt, dina.
Isn’t this exactly why nobody was supposed to die. So that exactly this would not happen?
A full-size Snickers bar should do the trick.
Is it just me, or does Robin look especially attractive as a goth?
ethan’s an ass now 😐
Given the “go back in your hole” part, I’d take it one step further.
Amber did spend a fair amount of time (the whole run of the comic) wearing down Ethan’s emotional reserves before possibly/apparently dropping him like a stone in the wake of Mike’s death. And now she’s pacing back and forth in front of his door, hoping she doesn’t have to talk to him but still wanting a halo for reaching out. I’d be salty at her too.
It goes back and forth, Amber wore down her own reserves defending him over the summer when he came out.
Did he ask her to, or was that something she felt obligated to do for her own reasons?
“So you’ll fake it with her, but you wouldn’t fake it with me?”
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/coercing/
Without knowing exactly what happened between Mike’s injury and now it’s hard to tell how justified Ethan’s anger is.
Amazi-Girl knew Mike went splat, but Amber didn’t.
Ethan might not know how deep that rabbit hole goes, or fully understand the split, so he feels Amber deliberately withheld information about what happened to Mike (until after it all flashed back to her in the kidnapping basement).
He realized when she said she didn’t have AG’s memories in the aftermath that this was, in fact, something REALLY significant and a VERY deep issue. Nonetheless, the fact that it got to the point where she and AG weren’t sharing memories and none of their friends knew (except Walky, and I’m not certain Amber was aware he figured it out because he’d interacted with both of them and noticed they didn’t remember all the interactions)? Yeah, that is deeply concerning, and the fact that Amber didn’t seem to treat this as something that was deeply worrisome and actively dangerous, to herself (it’s generally not good if you’re a vigilante who doesn’t remember who you might be pissing off) and ultimately to all of them (because she wasn’t aware to warn everyone her and Becky’s evil dads were on the loose and murderously violent) did seem to anger Ethan once he knew. So, he seemed to be angry about the situation even once he realized there was a dissociating issue in play, but more angry that Amber let this very unsustainable thing become status quo long enough that it COULD have really dangerous consequences. Which, as someone who cares about Amber, is also kinda fair – it’s hard to watch someone you care about not take care of themselves, even if it HADN’T endangered him and Mike in the process.
If anything I would say Amber tried repeatedly to avoid relying on Ethan. She felt like she had to protect him from Sal and took more responsible for his emotional wellbeing than was hers to have. And despite saying he was worried about her to Danny a few times, he didn’t really ever actively seek her out and spent more time editing Transformers wikia and directing Mike at people to destroy on forums.
The one time I can remember him showing up when Amber had a bad time was after ‘Ryan’ being stabbed… And that still wasn’t his idea, Danny was the one who texted him and he offered her a toy that he wasn’t even really gifting her so much as offering to share. Mostly they just happened to cross paths whenever they did talk. He didn’t actually really act on his concern for her on his own and he didn’t seem to fully understand that things that worked for him, weren’t necessarily going to work as well or straightforwardly for Amber such as talking to Sal.
We saw before the time skip that Ethan needed space to be mad without Amber accepting blame for what happened that wasn’t hers to have. And he also felt clearly some blame towards Amber for not telling him Mike was in the hospital despite how irrational it was (she couldn’t act on memory she didn’t have at the time or decide to get help based on events she was unaware of at the time).
It seems more like the ‘space’ turned into a rift after Mike’s death and I’m pretty sure if Amber was the one who pulled away, she wouldn’t be trying to connect. It feels more like Ethan is bitter about Mike’s death and is extra resentful about all the events around it, whether it is fair to be or not, because grief is sometimes like that.
Yeah, the Ethan/Amber dynamic falling apart seems to have been something building since before they got to college – she wore herself out trying to be A+ Ally for Ethan after prom led to his coming out, so he gave her some space, but then she had a massive blowup at him when he shoved himself back in the closet to date Joyce (and she was upset that essentially, he wouldn’t do that for Amber, which does at least indicate he took the lead coming out and breaking up,) and then she started isolating because she was Bad for Ethan and All Good People, and then things just really started deteriorating, especially as Amber and AG’s divide got worse. Ethan didn’t know his best friend was dissociating to the point of not having all her memories, and that’s worrisome! And Amber had accepted that no one and nothing could help her, so she didn’t tell anyone that she wasn’t sharing memories with the other inhabitant of her body anymore. Understandable thought process given the circumstances, but the consequences for her friends were dire – even if nothing could have been done for Mike once AG got him to the hospital, there’s a chance they could have avoided being kidnapped if AG and Amber had been on speaking terms. Amber’s trying to take everything on herself has led to some serious trouble.
Add grief on top of that, and well, we get this, where they’re both handling this terribly in part because they’ve both been isolating themselves from the world… including the one person they used to find ‘safe,’ once upon a time.
I don’t see anything here implying she wants a halo. She only pointed out that she was trying because he insulted her for showing up.
She admits it was accurate, though – that she was trying but kind of hoping to fail so that she could say she tried without having to interact. Still, with things this awkward and Amber isolating herself, the same way Ethan seems to be, I can get this first step being really scary.
After last semester, Ethan knows a lot about holes.
Great, he’s gonna be hostile isn’t he. That’ll be really easy to deal with.
Geez this conversation feels painful and I’m not even in it.
Feel like it’s only going to get worse from here
In a surprise twist, it turns out Ethan is the new Mike
Booster is the new Mike and Jennifer was secretly Mike all along.
Noo, that’s so sad.
*Elton John from yesterday continues*
Thanks. So that’s why that song has been playing in my head all day/night/morning. No, it’s cool.
Dumbing of Age Book 12: Not Fair But Essentially Accurate
Dumbing of Age Book 12: This Is My Hole. It Was Made for Me
Characters having conflict with each other instead of warmly affirming their feelings is good actually
Actually the mark of a good story is characters who are always right and always get along
As is well known.
Addendum: Any conflict that occurs because a fictional character performs an action that is not the most optimal solution to an ongoing or sudden problem is actually bad writing. If they are problematic towards each other then they are extremely unlikable, and the story is attempting to force me to see them as pure, noble and just in all moral circumstance.
I don’t know how much you know about character writing (I’m an expert) but
Harsh but accurate. You can tell they’re besties.
Go away, Fuckface. I only accept people gravitars.
I’m sure Malaya would claim fuckface is a person too.
She’d probably claim that him not being a person makes him better
That is equally possible, which is funny, since I currently rank Malaya as my least favorite person in this. So the idea that her pet is a person means Malaya comes dead last compared to an iguana.
[x] Cosigned xD
I really like the combination, though. It almost looks like Fuckface is sitting on the top of your Joyce avatar’s head, just moved over a little to one side. 🙂
Okay, see, now I dig it too.
eesh
Damn, he’s lost weight, hasn’t he.
Yeah, he’s clearly not doing well.
Oof. These kids are not well.
To be fair they weren’t all that well before the funeral.
… so last night wasn’t just a bad moment for Ethan? He’s pretty much like this 24/7 now?
… I THINK someone might have coined the term already, but if not I’m going to do it: Ethangst.
In my head I’ve been referring to him as Emothan.
Creepythan
Okay, Emothan was what I was vaguely remembering. I like it better as a nickname.
I dunno, I’m pretty okay with Ethan’s response here. Amber spent the run of the comic pre-timeskip wearing down Ethan’s emotional reserves and randomly exploding, and then (it seems at the moment) dropped him like a stone in the wake of Mike’s injury/death. And that’s before you take into account the ‘joy’ that was their last onscreen interaction.
And now she’s pacing outside his door, hoping he’s not there so she can wear the ‘I TRIED’ halo in case anyone asks later. I’d be salty too. Shit or get off the pot, Amber.
Randomly exploding? I don’t think getting mad at him for going *back* in the closet to date Joyce after coming out just in time to reject her, qualifies as random. In their last interaction, Ethan blamed Amber for not retroactively knowing that not immediately finding a DID-trained therapist (of which there are almost none) would result in Mike’s death. And I don’t think it’s clear whether Ethan pushed Amber away or Amber pushed Ethan or it was mutual. Amber needed Ethan’s support just as much, if not more, than Ethan needed hers in the wake of Mike’s death.
Ethan’s visibly lost weight and it’s freaking me out 🙁
I have yet to be grabbed by Ethan’s new situation / role in the story.
I figure this’ll change with time, but right now he’s *just* mopey and to such a wildly harsher degree than anyone else. Amber is going through much the same, but her experience is…I dunno, more interesting to read? So far Ethan seems to JUST be sad, which is sometimes very real-life accurate but I’m not so sure it will make for a good story here. I wonder if Ethan is no longer truly a cast member anymore, or if we’ll ever get let back into his head…or will he just be in the background from here on out?
My guess is that we’re right about to get into the depth and interesting nature of it. Potentially via flashbacks, and potentially to that night of halloween that was A Big Deal off screen for a lotta people.
We’ve seen Ethan Repressed, Depressed, angry, & Lonely
But i dont recognize this character. Not their looks or personality.
Ruined a character, multiple relationships. & Now due the sliding time line it lasts forever ;
The exact reasons Willis said he wouldnt Kill off a major character , esp a Queer character, and does both
Unless mike pops out of witness Protection any day, I dont understand why Willis pulled a Bury the Gays.
Ethan heartbroken i can handle. Turned into a creepy unrecognizable douchebag I cant.
Why not finish the Job? It would be a Mercy killing & give the Straights a reason to feel sad.
I don’t think a character (who just happened to be queer) dying is at all the same as “bury your gays”, especially not when well over 50% of the cast–and that’s just counting the characters on the Official Cast Page!–are GRSM, and they hence make a majority of the comic’s available characters.
In short, when you have a Cast Full of Gay, one of them dying–especially for reasons entirely unrelated to his sexuality–isn’t really an example of “Bury Your Gays”.
Who are we left with if Willis turned into nega-Willis and did pull the trope and buried all of them?
Is this… a Jimmy Neutron reference?
Walky, Amber, Dorothy, Sal, Sarah, Joe, Jacob, Lucy and Roz
It’s worth acknowledging he’s not talking about a complete lack of queer characters in the series, he’s talking about how there are, comparatively, few queer men in comparison to queer women; if Ruth acted with integrity in this series there’d still be other bi women to follow, let alone any woman under the queer umbrella.
It is true that Mike’s death slashed a third of the queer male cast, no ifs and or buts, and the “just so happened to be” line isn’t really helpful in this scenario even if I do think it’s true to Mike’s character. He’s a character where I really only started to like him upon textual canonization of being into men besides “slept with Ethan for one panel in Shortpacked” but eventually came to realize that killing him off was absolutely for the best, it doesn’t really assuage adam’s problems. The way I’ve come to process this is that the true culprit hiding under the mask that the Scooby Gang reveals is a lack of queer men in fiction overall, and therefore the stories that do feature them have to carry the weight of far too many desires from an audience of queer men who want to be seen in fiction, because we’ve been starved for too long.
And, y’know, that’s worked out pie in the sky for me here. Danny’s the most affirming bisexual narrative I’ve ever seen in my life, Ethan finally interests me as a character where someone mostly defined by his effortless ability to gently care for everyone around him got his fucking teeth kicked in, and Mike’s dead except Mike provides the most interesting story he possibly could to the rest of the cast by being dead. Hurting Amber and Ethan one last time with the revelation that the Mike they wanted always existed right before losing him forever is, actually, the best way to use the character as he’s been presented in DoA.
Sad queer men can exist, queer men can die, because a story can be anything, even if those stories feel like they come at our expense in ways that are tailored for a straight audience who needs The Gays to be sad and miserable forever. That’s happened, that it happened for so long is probably why it’s easy to be upset with a story where Ethan is sad that his sorta boyfriend died.
But I don’t think the solution to that is that Ethan’s story does not happen as it is now, what I think is that adam black deserves stories that fulfill his wishes for being seen in fiction, so that Ethan’s story can happen and not have to carry that weight.
Agreed. This strip could use more queer dudes of note, media needs more queer dudes in general with meaningful storylines so that one single piece of diverse media isn’t the end-all be-all of representation, and in that respect Mike was loadbearing… he just also wasn’t working as a character anymore and kind of HAD to die so that at least he could get one last big psychological fuckery over on Amber, Ethan, and Walky. Otherwise, what could Mike do? Have feelings for Ethan, admit he only slept with him in the first place to screw with Danny and Ethan’s mutual crush, and prompt Amber and Ethan having e-fucking-nough? Admit he was responsible for Blaine driving them to that field trip with the same effect? Or just keep being a douchebag no one in the strip liked forever, cutting him off from meaningful storylines because not even his friends trusted him? There weren’t a lot of good options.
Seriously, Mike had nothing going on story wise. Redemption arcs take time and a lot of screen time, none of which Mike can take up without taking over. Meanwhile, what niche can Mike fill over ‘mega asshole?’ that other characters don’t do better? Good natured wise assery works better from Becky and Walky, Carla is a prankster who lives in the hall, Sal, Jennifer, and Sarah all work as curmudgeonly but still good people to have around.
Except Mike was already in the middle of a redemption arc when he died?
He really wasn’t. He realized he was a dick. That is the bare minimum start of a redemption arc at best.
Huh. I thought he had to die because Willis gave the power of the grim reaper to that one guy that one time. Kinda hazy recollection though.
It’s not bury your gays if half the cast is gay 🤦
I knew we’d hear some galaxy brain takes when i realized Adam black was back
There is an issue that, since a much lower proportion of the cast is male to begin with (five male characters on the cast page, six when you add in Mike, to fourteen female characters plus AG not being counted separately for fifteen, and two nonbinary ones,) killing off one queer dude equated to a full third of the queer dudes on the cast and made another one very depressed (and torpedoed any chance of a relationship between the two surviving ones, for those hoping for a m/m relationship to get focus. Ethan sure as hell isn’t up for a relationship with ANYONE right now, even if another queer guy showed up as actual cast.)
However, the fact remains that Mike wasn’t working as a character anymore. He hadn’t been for a while. In DoA’s less Wacky Hijinks-laden universe, his comedic sociopathy was coming off a lot less comedic and more, well, sociopathic. Only a sizable portion of the fanbase continually made excuses for him, saying he didn’t INTEND for Ethan to take the ‘go back into the closet’ or Amber to take the ‘if you date nice guys and we relationship based off our parents, that means YOU’RE the abusive one’ seriously, but also that his assholishness was calculated to make them be better people even though it consistently didn’t work that way. Some of that was probably lingering affection from Shortpacked, but it was also VERY noticeable that Mike could record his roommate crying repeatedly (once because of a breakup, and once because he arranged an elaborate hoax for this purpose) and get a pass for it, where characters who were female or nonbinary, frequently characters of color, were getting FAR MORE FLAK for far less dramatic meanness. (See: Carla. See: Malaya, constantly, SO MUCH, and I believe Willis has said their dialogue was sometimes taken from Walkyverse Mike verbatim. I do know Anna’s was, and while a more minor character she did get some critique, though mostly of the ‘yeah, that’s not actually a good look’ variety from people who didn’t make excuses for Mike. See, more recently, Booster being deemed pretentious for the unforgivable crime of having hobbies.) This also made a redemption arc for Mike a much harder prospect, because that portion of the fanbase didn’t recognize what he was doing was wrong. Hell, Mike’s final strips had him ADMITTING he fucks with Amber psychologically because he finds it entertaining, and then explicitly realizing that his justification of ‘toughening them up for their own good’ was the same one Blaine used, and people STILL make excuses for him! A redemption arc for Mike would have required way too much focus time and absolutely no slack whatsoever for him to be an asshole, ever again, because he’d been abusing the three characters he interacted with most, and at that point he’s no longer Mike and people would want the asshole back because they didn’t see a problem with his behavior. Not really workable.
Further, even though Mike had caught Feelings for Ethan, the years of abuse he’d subjected him and Amber to meant that starting a relationship with either of them would have been on uneven ground. As one flashback strip stated, Mike would deny being friends with Ethan and Amber nine times out of ten – but that one time he’d say yes, to keep hope alive. I don’t think either of them could EVER date Mike in this universe and feel secure in that fact. Certainly not in the timeframe we’d be seeing from this strip. Yeah, Ruth/Jennifer was a hot disaster founded on bullying and alcoholism and suicidal depression. But Ruth stopped being terrible to Jennifer before the sexy bisexual suicide pact, and they hadn’t known each other nearly as long. Five years of Mike bullying Ethan and Amber meant those patterns of behavior were well-established. Which meant Mike couldn’t grow into the Mike from late Shortpacked who consistently used his assholery for good, and was willing to show his vulnerable side. Not with either of them, at least – as Ethan and Mike’s last strip together demonstrated, Ethan couldn’t trust Mike when he was being vulnerable.
The timeskip means MOST of the cast has gotten through the worst of the mourning, but yeah, Ethan and Amber and Walky are still clearly impacted (so, one gay male character to two straight ones.) I think it’s being set up for those three’s arcs this ‘season’ to include coming to terms with the fact that Mike was a bad friend but they still feel bad about his death, but yeah, that will take a while. Nonetheless, I think the ‘Mike was a bad friend’ arc would have happened even if he lived. I’d been thinking it for YEARS. Ethan and Amber’s friendship clearly broke with Mike’s death, after months of fraying. I also hope they’ll rebuild a bit, but that will also take a while. I can see a throughline from their interactions in the hospital to his line here, but yeah, he’s not softening it for Amber this time because he’s depressed and they’re on the outs and she’s been avoiding him. I get that this isn’t fun to watch, especially because there’s exactly one queer male character in the main cast who’s anywhere remotely stable right now (Danny,) but that doesn’t mean Mike was still working as a cast member or that his death wasn’t a final catalyst for things that had been building for a long time. Ethan’s clearly very depressed and, yeah, got a radical redesign, but I don’t think the depression is going to stand forever now that he’s been reintroduced. We’re meeting him at rock bottom. (And I’m going to note that Amber is just as depressed after there was some hope of her starting to take care of herself psychologically pre-skip. She is CLEARLY in worse shape than she was before Mike’s death. We’re used to Amber being seriously depressed and engaged in a sort of passive self-harm, but she’s not doing well either and this is our first storyline focusing on her since the timeskip. Ethan’s been back five strips and both scenes so far were him interacting with people he had a falling out with before Mike’s death. And he managed to have an awkward but neutral interaction with Danny last night.)
It sucks, and we need more queer male characters in the cast who are actual CHARACTERS, but ‘because he’s one third of the queer male rep in the cast’ was not a compelling enough reason to keep Mike around when he had SO MUCH baggage. I still feel like Mike’s death was a waste that lets him off easy for his actions instead of the hard work of consistently not being an asshole anymore, but it’s pretty clear he’s dead so we have to deal with it or let it be a stop reading point. Presumably, there is some sort of plan Willis has for using his death that couldn’t be done with him going home to recover offscreen forever, if only ‘another vector for characters to process Complicated Feelings About Deaths Of People Who Mattered To You But Weren’t Good For You’. A couple months means that even if Ethan and Amber are still very much grieving, it can START to heal by now.
*MIKE DROP*
spectacular as always.
and Spencer too, up there. you’re both nailing it today. thanks =)
no pun intended btw
…althoughi guess me writing “mike” not “mic” means subconsciously i did intend it
wait if it’s subconscious can it still be said to be intended?
hmmm
hmmmmmmm
Can anyone name a character besides Dina that is doing well emotionally?
Does Fuckface count?
Eh, tha cat’s prob’ly fine
Walky and Lucy, maybe?
Alex is Fantastic!
Sierra’s probably doing fine, except for Midwest Winters + barefoot girl = lost toes.
Unfortunately, Mary and Rahda are both probably feeling pretty good and satisfied with life.
Oh! I hope Sierra’s feet are OK! 😵
A (bonus?) strip with her would definitely put our minds to ease.
If she sticks to dry pavement she’ll be fine, granules of rock salt hurt worse than the cold snow does. You warm up again surprisingly fast, too. Besides, she’s been at it for years, she’ll have a much higher tolerance than someone who wears shoes 23.5 hours a day and thinks tile floors are painful.
(Sometimes it takes longer to bundle up to put the trash out than it does to actually just put the trash out, so you just deal with the cold for a minute.)
Briefly sure. Not convinced about walking across campus to class.
As long as she wears warm pants and avoids trudging through slush, she’ll be fine. It’s not like she’s streaking across campus.
Danny seems to be managing.
Sal and Danny.
Dorothy seems decent all things concerned
Bitter much, Ethan?
With good reason.
Fck off, Ethan.
Wow willis, really going the extra mile to make me hate all the characters now eh?
First billie- oh no, excuse me, Jeniffer, and now Ethan?
Well at least Ruth is the same. Same-ish
Jennifer hasn’t actually changed all that much
New Jennifer on the outside, same old Billie on the inside. It’s like when they renamed Electrasol to Finish.
No but her arc had finished, she no longer desired that throne of popularity, and her and Ruth started being a normal non toxic ir self destructive relationship
3 months later- OOPS START OVER
I’m not yr BUDDY, PAL
I’m not your PAL, CHUM.
I’m not your CHUM, AMIGO
I’m not your AMIGO, KYODAI
I don’t know what that means but i’m pretty sure i’m not that, MATE
I’m not your MATE, FELLA.
I’m happy to be your fella, friend.
How dare you?!
Always happy to be Fella, Kuti.
You didn’t have to remember The Enigma of Amigara Fault, Willis. This shit traumatized me.
Interesting, I’ve never read any works by Junji Ito, but by the looks of it they’re gruesome and creepy as fuck.
Can anyone tell me, on a scale of 1 — 10, how does it compare to Corpse Party?
i don’t know Corpse party but at a glance it’s not really comparable. The Amigara Fault is a ~30 page short story and it’s not gory in the least. It has more of an Edgar Allan Poe vibe you know?
I’m not sure how to rate horror in the abstract though, i enjoy horror generally and i guess it takes a lot to seriously spook me? It’s solid as existential horror goes, but it won’t keep me up at night.
Apparently Amos found it really disturbing though, so… idk!
(i didn’t know it, i just went and read it now out of curiosity)
I’m pretty sure he’s the preeminent author of horror manga in Japan.
Y’know the one with all the spirals or the big monster planet? That’s him.
I also don’t know Corpse Party, but I will say: The Enigma of Amigara Fault is fucked up, and I agree Poe’s a good comparison. I haven’t read *many* of his other works, but the people-sewn-together one was very fucked up but also fairly ridiculous, and Hellstar Remina has its disturbing moments but is so over-the-top that I found significant parts of it hilarious. Part disaster movie, part horror counterpart of, I dunno, Gurren Lagann or something. There’s that same sort of serial escalation going on for a lot of it, just a bit more understated and more depressing. (Note that there’s some TW-y stuff in there, mind, so you may want to look up the content warnings.)
I haven’t read the spirals one, but it sounds potentially much more horrifying. Also even weirder.
Damn, we had a feeling that these two were probably on bad terms but…damn.
The two most disastrous characters together again. I hope this leads them to stay better, or to share their sadness sinking into it deeper, but together.
An emo is an asshole? How unpredictable.
In time, you may grow to appreciate the irony of your statement.
I’m sure Jacob has had fun carrying messages between those two.
“Oh hi Jacob, um please tell Ethan I dropped by”
“I’m in here actually, Amber”
“Did you say something Jacob? Well nevermind i’ll catch him another time. OK bye then”
Yo Ethan, I know you’re grieving.and all, but so is amber so dont be a dick
He’s definitely being a dick. Not cool.
Someone is firmly lodged in the anger stage of grief.
Dude’s tired. Unable to make space for other people and their feelings. I get it.
Oh I am LOVING new Ethan
I’m not. He was so nice, and now he’s coming off as a jerk :/
Yes! Finally he looks like a true human being!
It’s not like it’s any one person’s “job” to be nice and accommodate everyone around them. Amber, frankly, has earned at the least a little pushback, and since Ethan’s evidently strung out these days it’s not even like he’s making the conscious decision, probably.
Ethan is a vampire now, right?
Even more reason for Danny to love him.
Shit, they should have staked Bloodrose when they had the chance
Ethan channeling his inner Mike to keep him alive or just part of the grieving process? Tune in tomorrow, same bat time, same bat channel.
What, Mike is like some kind of Vampire life-force or something?
I meant more Ethan keeping Mike “alive” by acting like him, though your idea is way better.
I am a reasonable person.
I can appreciate a character death. They happen.
I can appreciate MIKE’s character death. He’s jarringly out of place in DoA’s more grounded cast. But if he starts to grow as a person, he loses what makes him quintessentially Mike.
I can understand having someone get totally and inconsolably broken by a character’s death. Grief hurts us all in different ways. Grief, to quote a certain movie, transcends value. Grief cannot be neatly exchanged for growth. Grief is worthless.
I can understand ETHAN getting totally and inconsolably broken by a character’s death-even if getting reduced to playing with toys and speaking in Beast Wars allusions is a little narmy. But grief is often messy and its expression undignified. We regress under pressure, and these are basically teenagers.
But while I can understand the logic of why Ethan would get totally and inconsolably broken by MIKE’S death, I just don’t feel it, and that’s without getting into the fact Mike’s sole positive contribution to Ethan’s life was awakening him to his white pretty privilege.
Because he had a thing for Mike but was smart enough to know it’d never actually happen because he’s an asshole, and then he found out that asshole was actually “a good person, deep down” this whole time while committing a selfless act of heroism to save the life of another close friend, and then his last words were how much he loved them both, and so the Mike that Ethan always wanted to exist only did after it was too late to see him, and then he dies and there’s no way to ever contradict that perfect image in his head anymore, because Mike’s not around to do anything to contradict it.
You can be sad someone died without mathematically calculating that they’re objectively worth being sad over, and that last line of yours sucks; Ethan finally got the first affirmation that something positive could from being gay, because everyone else turned it into a nightmare dramascape when all he wanted to do was complain about toys.
Yes, yes, I’ve been reading these comment sections and the many, many Mike deep dives they contain. I understand the mechanics of Mike’s three strip Heel-Face-plant. I just don’t like it lol
That last line of mine does suck, true. It just always grated on me that there was no middle ground between the nightmare dramascape of his past, and the harem anime his life became by the eve of the fall.
See, now I’m gonna start describing the part where a character redeems themself by dying as “heel-face-plant” from now on.
Anyway, I think an important thing to consider about Ethan’s last few months being a nightmare dramascape is that it has all been inflicted by the people he knows. He can sleep around in college because it’s not like Drew’s gonna give him heck, and sleeping around with a chain of eager dudes is the first thing that’s ever happened to Ethan this semester that didn’t involve someone, usually Amber, making his day challenging.
Well said!
Bruh they were friends and fuckbuddies who grew up together. Like. Mike always took care of shit for them and was in their corner
Also it’s the first death, that we know of, and Mike was murdered by their other friends dads. Shit is really fucked.
Everyone who’s like oh Ethan is unrecognizable now, consider: Mike. Is this not also how Mike could be? I imagine Ethan’s thought a lot and has “decided” that if Ethan loved or at least really treasured Mike, Mike couldn’t have been all that *wrong* about life
I’m still calling him Emothan
Unrelated but I’ve started my reread of doa and Jesus the comments when we first saw sal and her parents, esp with Charles’ hair comment. Even Willis had to point out how blindingly white the comments were proving to be. The people bending over backwards to defend the walkertons, even one dude blaming sal for everything and saying her parents were probably scared of her 🤦
I get we hadn’t seen their backstory yet but Jesus Christ
Oh cheese and crackers yes, those comments were a mess.
Man, Emothan’s a jerk.
Ethan not only lost Mike, he was kidnapped and witnessed a murder. Then the killer was killed. All while he was there exploring sex and relationships. It’s been a busy six months for a teenager. He’s not getting nearly the help and support he needs. He may not be as messed up as Amber but it’s not a competition.