I just nod and go “uh-huh” a lot at the Transformers-heavy content around here. I’m aware of the property but know jack shit about it besides a few character names and sound effects.
I mean, does he have to?
“When CHARACTER_A died, CHARACTER_B actually got to tell him how he really felt. Things didn’t end forever on the dismissive thing he’d said earlier.”
Pepsi, only if you are in NA, maybe in Asia? Definitely not in EU, the Pepsi here is all artificial sweetener flavor. Ugh. I’ll rather drink RC cola or Coca Cola.
I was referencing the “you’re not you when you’re hungry” Snickers ad campaign, and that completely tone-deaf Pepsi ad from a few years ago where some famous-for-being-famous socialite offers Pepsi to riot cops as a peace offering.
(All big-name sodas are made with artificial sweeteners here in North America. That’s what happens when you subsidize corn production for decades, suddenly everyone uses HFCS!)
Honestly, there are so much better uses for all the corn we overproduce.
My husband was researching new cat litters and Jackson Galaxy had a nice biodegradable corn litter that would be great to try out if we didn’t have 3 cats and would need multiple $30 bags.
Ah, same ordeal over here in the south americas, pepsi used to be decent up till a couple years back where the original pepsi was “reduced in sugar” by adding a crappy sweetener in it… so coca cola it was, till they also pulled that here, now only the small 1.5L bottles, and for some reason, the 3L bottles have the original recipe, everything else got sweeteners in it.
I don’t disagree but I think Scott had the best imitation of a mother in the 80s down. Also I saw Bruce McCollough live on Saturday, great show if it comes near you
Ethan needs the world’s best hug. But also, I can’t stop thinking about the fact that Danny’s face in the last panel is just my customer service smile when a customer says something particularly horrifying
It is, but that can’t possibly be what Ethan was referring to. He didn’t hear the interaction between Mike and Danny and had to ask Mike why Danny left.
After the fall he calls Amber/AG (not sure he was aware of the distinction) a good friend (as we see in a flashback). That mom joke was totally intended as potential last words though.
Actually, I thought Ethan was referring to the incident where he and Danny broke up after Danny compared Mike to Darth Vader while he was in a coma. You know, ’cause that’s the way Danny’s mouth works.
I have to ask, but are you a time traveler, Needfuldoer? I see my post dated November 8, at 12:07 am, but your reply is dated November 8, at 8:27 am. What gives? Your gravatar is pseudo Doc Brown, but are you the REAL Doc Brown?
That’s why you always gotta end ever conversation saying something really kind. Even when you’re mad at someone. Cuz who knows! Just make sure you end every conversation with something you’d be satisfied with in case it’s the last thing you say to them. Cuz inevitably it will be.
Let me counter that with no. I did that for the vast majority of my life and it wasn’t good for my mental health. Even if I was mad or hurt or the nice thing I said wasn’t genuine, I always ended every conversation on a positive note. Always tell the people that I cared about that I loved them. I never realized until this last year how much the thought of never speaking to someone again because the left me or died weighed on my mind. How much I suppressed my own feelings because what if what I say hurts them or leads them to hurt themselves? It even lead me to allow some of the toxic people to stay in my life out of fear of their mental state or needing my help.
But that’s not on me. What would happen after that would have jack shit to do with me. If I love somebody and they died tomorrow and our last conversation wasn’t great, they will STILL know I loved them and visa versa.
And honestly? If someone died and you allow yourself to focus on what you should have done different, you will always ALWAYS find something and the guilt and other shame based emotions will become a part of you for years. When I lost the most important person in my life, I hated myself for not seeing her more when I could, watching tv a lot when I visited, not making that last visit more than mediocre, and getting a migraine so bad I couldn’t stand so I physically couldn’t be there her last good day. It took me a decade to finally start letting go of all that shame and suppressed feelings. And she wasn’t the only loved one I’ve lost either, by distance or by death. To live life like every interaction might be your last? It wasn’t kind to me. It was pessimistic, tainted interactions, forced me to put my needs last, ran on shame, and make me think far too much about how everybody would eventually leave me.
It was FREEING to hang up the phone on my dad when he ignored my wishes. Important to set up boundaries with consequences. Leave conversations how I genuinely wanted to instead of how I was compelled to by fear. Let feelings sit a few hours or even a few days. Not spam the L word and instead just exist and say it when I want instead of from anxiety. Be sad, be mad, be imperfect. I’m naturally on the kind side, but I don’t have to be. I can be harsh. Walk away. Put myself first. I’m allowed a healthy level of selfishness (just like whomever is reading this right now).
A finite life is a beautiful thing. Try your best, allow yourself to fail and learn from it, and be present. ♡
You’re beyond welcome. It helped me and I hope it helps you too. ♡
Some is old knowledge, but I also learned a lot of it while I was in an outpatient partial hospitalization program (think a step between regular therapy and needing to go to a hospital) earlier this year. I’ve never been the group type, but it was set up more like a class (mostly on DBT, TREM, and Expressive Therapy) which helped. Don’t get me wrong, it was a lot of work, but I came out the other side feeling better then I have in a long time and my emotional baseline has remained solid in the months since. ^_^
Random fun fact, but I started reading DoA about 5 or 6 years ago. Despite currently reading 95 comics (just counted), DoA is still my favorite. Also, Ruth made me cry the first time I read through it.
He’s mad about what he said to Mike, and he is asking Danny to re-engage so that the cruel things they said to each other in their last conversation won’t be the last things they say to each other.
The Dinobots are, IIRC, 5 Transformers from the original canon that landed on Earth before Optimus Prime and company. Their alternate forms were a T. rex, a Stegs, a Trike, a Pteranodon, and a sauropod. None of them were called Dinobot.
Dinobot is a Transformer that can turn into a featherless raptor from the Transformers: Beast Wars show, which I could never get into because I can’t stand the CGI 3D shit it was used to make the animation. He is not one of Dinobots.
How else would you do it? You need to establish some kind of communication, figure out if the other person is open to talk, before you can launch into something intense like an apology speech.
Yes because reminding someone of the shitty thing you said is a great way to start a conversation. Especially if that person is grieving, but fuck Danny for trying to at least start a conversation with him, right?
Yes. Because instead of being like, “Hey! You seem a lot better after your friend who I said deserved to die, like, died!” he could have been more like “Hey, so last time we talked, I was a real asshole, and I’m sorry.”
It’s pretty obviously just his attempt at an icebreaker. He’s awkward. He didn’t know what else to say. Come on. Do you think he would have said the stupid thing that got him into this position to begin with if he was capable of smoothly navigating a stressful conversation?
The problem isn’t that Danny’s just “awkward.” It’s that he’s self-absorbed, inconsiderate, and worst of all, unkind. It’s not just about being able to “smoothly navigate a stressful conversation,” it’s about having some goddamn empathy.
Speaking ill of the dead kicks ass. I spoke ill of them when they were alive too and now they don’t get to enjoy their material wealth at the expense of everyone else anymore.
I’m pretty sure if someone told me “Your loved one deserves to die,” and my loved one died, and they told me “I actually didn’t mean that, I’m sorry,” it would ring hollow, no matter how genuine they managed to sound.
And Danny probably can’t make it sound genuine anyway, because Mike sucked the life and happiness out of everyone around him.
I’m fairnesss that is not what Danny said. Ethan said the doctors were saying Mike wouldn’t wake up “for a while.” And Danny asked “Would that be so bad?” Which was an awful thing to say, but not the same as saying Mike deserved to die.
Last strip is exactly how that went down: Danny thought something callous and it popped out.
Except it was about Mike, the worst person in the cast. As in, Mike himself realized he himself was the worst person in the cast who constantly egged on Amber’s trauma and did, in fact get Blaine to drive Amber that night five years ago because he thought it’d be funny.
He apologized, Ethan started going off about how actually Mike was good and saved the day, and then Danny said something completely normal like “dude this guy abused everyone around him all the time.”
Feelings got hurt, Ethan got mad, Danny shot back that Mike would totally be a huge dickbag on purpose if Danny were in a coma (as in he did this exact thing when Ruth was hospitalized and Billie was really messed up, he just started mouthing off about it to Walky. Anyone wanna tell me that was helpful?) so Ethan went “shit yeah I would he’s allowed to get away with that since I’ve known him longer than you.”
That’s probably a half-truth because the one time in the whole comic Ethan has ever stood up vaguely rose his gelatinous form upright in a way that resembles having a spine was that Mike not do his Mike thing to Danny (when Mike was writing down info on Danny on Mike’s Day Planner for Making Everyone Miserable), so Mike came up with his plan to fuck Ethan to make Danny jealous, and his decision to fuck Ethan was made in that moment.
Except Ethan totally lets Mike get away with being a huge shithead all the time and just kind of rolls his eyes whenever he’s a horrible bastard to everyone around him, he’s been compliant in Mike’s abuse of himself and Amber, so actually Danny was completely right about Ethan. At worst, Ethan would say “hey, come on, now” before Mike moved onto something else.
Danny’s callousness goes beyond making a shitty comment. Danny was upset with Ethan being worried about Mike when he was trying to make a love confession. Except they were IN A HOSPITAL and it was totally inappropriate to do that. Then when Ethan justifiably is not in a romantic mood, Danny made a comment about it being better if Mike didn’t wake up. He made the whole thing about HIM and that by itself was pretty awful. Except when Ethan called him out on it, Danny doubled down by saying how Mike was a shitty person.
Danny is basically Joyce in Joyce/Becky except Mike instead of God.
I’m curious what you disagree with. We know that Danny stuck his foot in his mouth at a dramatically inappropriate place and time. You don’t insult someone’s friend while they’re in a hospital let alone make a love confession.
I’m saying you and I have come to different conclusions about the characters, their interactions, the themes of the series and the narrative itself that they’re just kind of incompatible. We process this series on two different wavelengths, and that’s fine, I’m the one who’s made a running gag of being wrong all the time.
Oh and that callous thinking was if Mike not waking up for a while (as in that is the direct thing Danny was responding to) would be so bad, not him dying in a coma.
When I think casual conversation, I think naked panic and running through a script of everything wrong you could possibly say before starting to speak.
Honestly, just saying that wasn’t even Danny’s mistake. He could easily have just gone “oh shit, I’m sorry, why the hell did I say that?” and been forgiven. It’s the fact that he pretty much refused to back down on the point in that moment, like an idiot.
Basically. ‘I’ve never gotten along with him, but that was out of line, I’m sorry, I obviously hope he recovers and I’m so sorry you’re going through this’ isn’t actually the kind of arcane mystery only the Truly Emotionally Mature can navigate. Save the litigating how you don’t like how he treats his supposed best friends, much less everyone else, for any other time but ‘outside his hospital room, the day after said friends were kidnapped by the guy who put him in a coma, they have barely left said hospital since.’ They’re not ready to hear it now, and ESPECIALLY after Danny started the topic with serious foot-in-mouth syndrome, there was no way the conversation could be broached delicately right then. Just apologize, offer vague sympathies, and yeah that means Ethan’s being sad about and idealizing a real abusive jerk right now, but you cannot argue someone out of being sad. Especially not when what they’re sad about is a longtime friend being in a COMA after their other longtime friend’s EVIL MOBSTER DAD WHO MURDERED HIS ACCOMPLICE IN FRONT OF THEM YESTERDAY threw him off a building.
He did back down. He apologized right after saying it.
Then Ethan went “oh Mike was such a special hero boy mwah mwah mwah all is forgiven forever”
And Danny being an 18 year old who, like every single other person in the cast who isn’t Ethan, never had a pleasant interaction with him in his life, said “okay but everything he’s ever done has been inflicting misery, including on you.”
The sad reality is that this all could have worked out if Mike hadn’t died. Mike did want to be a better person, that’s why he fucking died. Danny’s feelings and statements were completely sensible and only inappropriate in that immediate moment in time, and I think Ethan would have eventually realized that. If Mike had lived this was something the both of them could have talked through, the consequences of a conservation about Mike not waking up would never exist.
It’s a character drama. The characters do say dumb things in their coming of age story!
Luck of the draw, Ethan.
We will lose more people as we age. Let’s consider the possibilities before saying everything to those close to us.
Or realize life happens that way and don’t ruin yourself over it.
I agree. Ethan seems to me to be mad at himself over the terms on which he parted from Mike, and to be asking Danny to re-engage so that the cruel terms of their last conversation are not the terms they part on.
To be fair, it wasn’t as dismissive as the last thing Danny said to Mike. Which was “Goodbye forever.” Though…in a weird way, that was a very appropriate thing for him to say.
Maybe Ethan should have taken some time away from school, or more time if he already did. Grieving over the loss of a friend is never easy but adding the pressure of college will only make it harder, in my opinion at least.
What do you guys think? Should he have taken some time away from all this or not?
It’s honestly hard to tell, without knowing how Ethan feels about college and why he’s attending at all. Like, is it just the default after-high-school thing for him? Is there a specific job he’s gunning for?
Like, put someone like Dorothy into the situation and I’d say absolutely not. It would hurt more to take time off. But Ethan is not Dorothy and I don’t know what the trade-off is, for him. Or say, Ruth: college is a safe haven from her grandfather. Would Ethan prefer to be under the burden of schoolwork, or camped at home alone without an ally like Amber, listening to his mother be shitty about being gay?
I just can’t make the call without knowing more about how he sees his world. Like, it was Mike who criticized him for buying from Chick-fil-a despite its anti-gay public position. What would hurt more?
Regarding Amber being an ally – At the end of the previous chapter, Amber seemed to be giving up on her friendship with Ethan. Which honestly is the one thing I did not understand about how the previous chapter ended.
Did I interpret things incorrectly? If so, someone please explain to me what I missed.
I definitely get the impression that Ethan gave up on his friendship with her, and she either failed to stop it, or didn’t try. Probably the latter, in a “It’s about time you realized how awful I am. Good for you.” kind of way, as Amber and Amazi-Girl are both wont to do.
It’s part of a longer conversation on how Amber processes things (as in I was like six paragraphs into a character dive before I realized I hadn’t answered you in the slightest), but cliffnotes: Amber takes ownership of the suffering of everyone around her, particularly Ethan, to fuel a suicidal death march where her first eight weeks in college had two car chases and one part where she was hoping Sal would murder her, and Mike was comatose in the hospital and Ethan had no idea and neither did Amber because her DID was so bad now she was blacking out when Amazi-Girl took the wheel.
She realized she had done wrong by him again and, for a brief moment, agreed that she needed to heal productively. She could love herself at least as much as Mike did, and the abandonment of Ethan was letting him stew and be mad at her instead of using that guilt to punch people forever, whereupon Ethan has to nanny and dote on her to make her feel better instead of letting himself feel anything he needed to. The point was that Amber would heal, Ethan could heal, Mike would definitely heal, and they could move on.
This did not shake out.
So now Amber and Ethan are emotionally deadened and Amber’s backslid into “I’m seriously fucked up with no hope of recovery” but with roller derby as an outlet instead of rampaging violence. We don’t know Amber’s direct motivation for not seeing Ethan anymore long term, but guilt’s a pretty good guess. Mike died saving her life, and I’m not entirely unconvinced Ethan doesn’t blame her, since he only died saving her life from her supervillain dad, and then his dad kidnapped Ethan and all his friends and then assaulted him a bunch.
Ethan was definitely REALLY upset with Amber not telling him that 1) AG isn’t her alter-ego, she’s another person sharing the body and 2) they were not sharing memories for weeks, which directly put them in danger due to the Blaine thing and left Mike alone. I’d guess given Ethan is unfortunately VERY familiar with Blaine that he wouldn’t hold the Freshman Family Weekend fights that prompted the grudge against her – Blaine would have held a grudge about anything she did, and he didn’t have an issue with AG until he realized it was dangerous FOR AMBER and then because the loss of memory directly harmed them. But that memory loss caused enough issues that he may well resent her for it still, especially because he’s not doing well.
He also pointed out that because of Amber’s issues, it’s very difficult to talk about how their mutual traumas affect him, because Amber tends to either take ownership for it unnecessarily or say something that’s so actively worrisome it kind of demands attention (such as the ‘my survivor’s guilt may have manifested a Brain Ghost Mike.’) Either option sort of derails it and makes it about Amber, which genuinely isn’t ideal. I could see the two of them justifiably needing a Friendship Break to reset the pattern, especially while that latest trauma was so fresh and it became very clear Amber needed competent professional help. Unfortunately, Mike’s death made everything worse for both of them, and Amber did not find competent professional help.
I’m not actually convinced Amber got help so much as that was Walky talking about his own experiences, presumably for grief counseling at Mike’s death.
Entirely possible, but given Amber and Ethan’s conversation about how this really wasn’t sustainable and Amber agreeing about it, the fact that Mike was one of her best friends too and was ultimately killed by her own father (who then kidnapped her, and murdered the other kidnapper, and is also dead now,) and all of this occurring after she repeatedly stabbed a would-be rapist trying to break into their dorm to threaten her friends (something which IS publicly known to be Amber)… if no one on campus at least STRONGLY ENCOURAGED she go see the counselors for a session or two, I will be shocked. And I think Amber in those initial days was willing to try. We don’t know when exactly the backslide occurred, or how long Mike lingered in that coma before dying.
Hell, Richard could’ve gotten her an appointment with some highly-recommended private practice grief counselor and I can still see that going badly given how tricky it is to find competent psychologists for DID.
I really don’t think so, sadly. Other than Wally briefly and maybe Sal no one in Amber’s friend group really knows what’s going on or are equipped to understand it. I get the feeling Mike’s death shot any motivations she had to getting counseling.
Richard means well by Stacy and Amber, I think that’s outright clear, you don’t pay legal fees for your hookup’s daughter, but I doubt he’s confident enough to sus out anything up with Amber without Stacy’s go- ahead,and she is honest to god clueless.
It’s kinda true to life, honestly. Amber’s viscerally traumatized and ill but no one thinks twice since she has a routine and isn’t visually and verbally affirming to everyone that she’s desperately in need of help.
… okay so when Richard inevitably ruins things, do you think it’ll be a plot point that Stacy feels financially trapped because of Ryan’s family suing?
At one point I think Ruth told her to look into therapy and her response was “No one can handle ME” (a very immature but realistic view on therapy for someone with her experiences) so even if they suggested it, you cant force someone to go unless you put them in a psyche ward. I don’t know if this comic would tackle that, but if it continues this way, in the real world she likely would get put on a psyche hold if someone of authority discovered the whole other person living in her head (or her Mike hallucination).
See if this was a series, New Ethan would suddenly have a new voice actor and people would be scrambling to complain about how they preferred OG Ethans’s voice how dare this new one show up.
Fuuuuuck, I guess the worse thing he can rap his head around about Mike’s tragic death is whether or not if he treated him the worse out of everyone right before his coma.
I mean his last moments with him was him flirting with other guys in front of him before getting in his face about Danny despite actually behaving that night.
The potential it offers is wild in terms of drama. I’m kind of hoping it’s his feelings for Danny mixed up with his anger at Danny’s last words, but the other possibilities are just as dramatic.
Probably what he said to Mike, since that’s what he just said and all.
He doesn’t know what Mike said to Danny, and the reference has no parallels to his own conversation with Danny–unless he’s proposing reconciling because he doesn’t want to risk that being their last conversation. But he doesn’t, quite, seem to be doing that.
(I thought it was Danny until other, smarter people on patreon pointed out otherwise)
The last thing Mike and Ethan talked about was Ethan dismissing Mike talking about how he and Danny had something in common, which Ethan shrugged off as Mike banging both their moms and then went back to hang out with his current fling.
So does that mean Mike is going to get cloned (Booster?)
and then original Mike’s memories are going to be put in the clone for an episode we never see but need to have happened for the end to make more sense?
I’d say Ethan needs to stop blaming himself, but if he could do that he wouldn’t have strolled in looking like he’s recently gained a newfound appreciation for Maximal screamo.
I fear they’re both going to talk past each other again, with Ethan referring to his own dismissive last words to Mike and Danny thinking Ethan is talking about him, because Danny’s Danny.
Do we need to know particulars about Dinobot and Rattrap’s relationship? I assume Ethan’s talking about the last thing he said to Mike. Did Dinobot and Rattrap have sex?
I can guarantee that there’s something like than on Ao3, but as I recall it was more of a long running rivalry that developed into a sort of mutual respect
Rattrap was extremely distrustful of Dinobot and essentially acted like a dick to him until he apologized prior to Dinobot dying after sacrificing himself selflessly to protect primitive humans. So, no, no sex.
Unless there’s something in that context that completely recontextualizes it, I don’t think so. I mean, I don’t know anything about Dinobot and Rattrap and it makes sense to me.
Not really. With Mike we saw the set-up for personal growth, with the realization of an actual romantic fondess and the realization that he’d been a jackass, but he died before we could see him handle that.
That’s what makes it a good tragedy. Mike honest to god would have changed, he would have been the Mike that Ethan wanted him to be, surviving meant Danny and Ethan could cut to the chase about what that fight actually was about, Amber probably would have kept her word and went to therapy.
There’s a black comedy element in WOLF HALL where Thomas Cromwell is thinking about his longstanding but friendly debate with Sir Thomas Moore regarding Protestanism vs. Catholicism. Then how, right in the middle of it, Moore was executed by Henry VIII. Which he likens to walking on a road and then someone dying by falling into a sinkhole. He then remembers this actually happens a lot and he needs to get the roads fixed.
Oh dear. When their last talk happened, I had to take a break from Dumbing of Age for a couple of days, so I could read it all in one go and be done with it. I can handle sad stuff, but not the intense level of second-hand embarrassment that brought. It was also an issue that came a bit as a shock; they had been friends, maybe could be something more, and then ONE conversation went SO wrong, I felt that that would be incredibly difficult to move forward from. When Mike died, that made it so bad I figured they’d never speak to each other again.
Perhaps I should take a break a couple of days again, cause right now, this is so damn embarrassing.
Yknow what should be comforting? Mike knew. It’s Mike. He read ppl like primary school readers. Run spot run.
There’s still A LOT to grieve, but Mike knew Ethan better than Ethan knew himself, a cathartic final line doesn’t matter to Mike’s knowledge of what Ethan thought of him.
I remember when I’ve said: some people dying, like Mike, could improve their around. I’ve said it for Walky. Sadly, this was not enough for Ethan. I confess I fear that, too, in a way or another.
I emphasize with Ethan here. I was ignoring my brother for weeks over something stupid before he died. And the last time I ever saw my mom alive, I made her cry. That shit just plays on repeat in your head for a long time, logic be damned, and Ethan has only had a few months to even BEGIN to process the loss (and the guilt from that last interaction.)
Is he even into Ethan anymore? Per how he describes his own romantic inclinations, he’s a one person kinda guy.
I don’t think it’s just romance drama between the two, I think a big chunk of this is “the last argument I had with this guy went so south I can’t ever actually make up for it, and even if I could I don’t think he wants me to try” with a dash of “is anyone looking after him? Is he talking to anyone?”
I think he has unresolved feelings, yeah. Right now he’s focused on the awkwardness of the situation but if they get the chance to really talk, I think it will stir up some stuff. He was pretty into Ethan and also there’s that unexplored bisexuality angle. I know he was buying Sal gifts but she’s the one that kissed him, I almost see it as him going along with it rather than choosing her.
I just hope these two get to have a real conversation, even if it’s painful. What was said last time was harsh but I think they could have worked it out if Danny hadn’t stormed away.
Yeah, on second read this is my take. Ethan has realised sleeping with Mike and then being all “whew I am glad I got that out of my system, see yuh” actually hurt Mike, who did have feelings all along.
I don’t know how much Ethan knows about Sal, the mob situation, why Blaine target Mike, etc. but there’s a good chance he’s found a few things out.
Yeah it’s easy to forget since it’s been a good couple years now, but Ethan was attracted to him, he just knew to get the hell out of dodge once they slept together. He didn’t look twice at him again afterwards since, in any other circumstance, it wouldn’t have mattered, that’s Mike. He’s just someone who’s fine to hang around with sometimes.
That’s why Ethan’s so fucked up now, because not only did Mike die saying Amber, the last time Ethan would ever talk to him involved him dismissively walking away after Mike said that he and Danny finally had something in common, and so Mike just ran with another joke about fucking his mom instead of saying out loud that he caught something real for Ethan.
Given Richard knew Blaine was a mob stooge (and that was our first confirmation that backstory carried over,) and Amber’s long since known, I think it’s reasonable to guess Ethan knew as well, and that fact came out in some form during the divorce. So he wouldn’t have been surprised to know Mike knew, either. That Mike knew details and was shouting them out to keep their attention off the party where Ethan and Becky still were, and I think he believed Amber to have been, is probably not known by anyone still alive unless Robin’s security detail was already in place outside the apartments the day of the party. And did nothing whatsoever when Ross showed up, when Blaine proposed killing an 18-year-old, or when this turned into an actual chase. (Possible given what we saw of them, but nonetheless STUNNINGLY incompetent.) But I think AG may have heard the tail end there, so she may have guessed the rest and passed that info on.
I mean, his bisexuality was explored, it still is. What Danny explored was that his feelings were natural and beautiful, he found himself so relieved in saying out loud that he was hot for Ethan that he says without a hint of irony that he can’t believe everyone isn’t a little bit bi.
Affirming his bisexuality was the catalyst for Danny to start outgrowing all the other bad shit he subsumed himself in. He wasn’t going to go find someone else and be his Wife’s Husband anymore, he started exploring who he wanted to be as a person so he became a ukulele dork in a dapper hat. He’s more conscious of his fashion choices (in that iconic bisexual no fashion sense energy way), he’s so happy with who he is he’ll make bi puns in front of Sal and that is actually Peak Bisexual.
And, y’know, while he was doing all that soul searching he was totally falling for Ethan, he was in fact comfortable being smitten with and wanting to pursue a man, and it only didn’t work because of that one final argument that ultimately resulted in Danny vocalizing his objections with a situation instead of slavishly submitting to his beau because having his own opinions is stupid and wrong, because his parents constantly reinforced in him that his only value was through his romantic partner.
That’s only unexplored bisexuality if Danny’s exploration is only complete once he has placed another man’s penis in his mouth.
And, y’know, Sal making the first move might be a bit important to a character who has trouble seeing his own worth, and then when he comes back after they make it official Danny says to Joe that maybe Sal likes him because he’s an interesting person with cool hobbies who can go down on a lady while swinging from a grappling hook. That’s not “going along with it”, that’s him saying out loud to another guy, the one guy who constantly put him down for having bullshit unmanly feelings, that Danny is a cool person who has worth to himself and the coolest, raddest person he knows sees it in him too.
I can see Danny’s been changing but I didn’t realize the catalyst was being open about his sexuality. I like his newfound confidence but I do think there are further angles of his sexuality to be explored. Like navigating a relationship with a man. Introducing a man to his parents. I think he still has room to grow and I don’t think his feelings for Ethan are completely dead because of one argument and a few months apart. This is going to be a confusing situation for him, and if he’d talked with Ethan last week things with Sal might have gone differently.
Well yeah he’s always going to have room to grow. He’ll stop having room to grow when he stops being a major, story-driving character because that’d mean the well of Danny stories had been tapped out.
Is navigating a relationship with a man something Danny would find strange or new? Does he still hold onto those separations of Dating Girls and Dating Boys as distinct things, or does he now process it as “find The One, who can be a girl or a boy”? By the time he was actively mooning over Ethan and chafing under that “haha we can’t date ever” thing, that kind of struck me as Danny confirming that being in love with a man was a natural part of his life now. Plus, we already kinda know how the Wilcoxen would react; poorly. They’re dickheads. They’ll probably be dickheads if they meet Sal too because “how could you dump the nice girl in glasses who’s like Dorothy, whom dating was your best feature?”
So regarding the overall topic of sexual exploration: In writing this I’m not trying to press my own relationship with my sexuality onto Danny, so much that I read something similar in him that can absolutely be contradicted at his leisure, and more broadly that it is something that exists. I’ve only ever been with one girl in my life and that was long enough ago that I’m pretty sure my virginity has burned itself back into existence, and the furthest I’ve gotten with a man was… two years after I came out? I remember bragging about it here and I think it was my final year of college but anyway I told him I thought he was attractive, and that was a big deal to me. I knew I was bi, I was comfortable and asserted in my attraction to men, but it was important I say it out loud because I wanted to hear myself say it. I didn’t know how to approach a man that way until I went for it and realized I still don’t know how to approach a man and also women and I’m a very round and anxious person who is bad at flirting, but, y’know, it was a personal victory.
I bring that up to say that, yes, you can be confident in being bisexual without confirming it through sex. If I do end up with a man then that’s just how it’ll be, but it’s never be going to be something I have to confirm to myself by getting high on Cadbury Cream Egg cereal, banging a dude on camera, and creating world peace for a couple weeks. It’s just there. I’ve never had to prove I like girls, y’know?
But, I do want to reiterate that this is me, there’s zero necessity for Danny let alone any actual bi person here to follow that same kind of “what does it mean to me?” pathway, it’s absolutely 100% valid to explore it however you want, I was just trying to share my own exploration to affirm it is one of the ways to do it.
Lastly, I don’t really know what “dead” feelings mean to Danny, I suppose. Like with Amber and his outrage that he caught Feels for her and that was wrong because he’s dating Amazi-Girl, it still took a whole half a day to decide he still had to go after her and make things right, which led to him getting ensnared by Blaine. I didn’t think of this until now, but when Danny found Amber that day he was with Sal (because Billie told him she was Amazi-Girl), he saw her run off terrified (thinking she was upset because he was getting cozy with another girl, Danny is not smart) and immediately bailed on Sal, his Secret Real Girlfriend, so he could go chase after her and make things right, without any indication that he was somehow torn in twain between two loves. Then when he and Amber broke up he never outright stopped caring about her, he made multiple attempts at staying in her life that she kept pushing back at, and in their last few interactions he seems perfectly comfortable just casually being her friend without throwing himself deep into her problems like he used to. There’s a writing process portion of that, Danny can’t still hover around Amber all day now that they’re broken up, he needed to go forge new relationships and Amber did the same, but I think it showed he’s fine getting over his romantic feelings. It’s not like he pines after Dorothy either, though he seemed to hold a grudge over it a while.
That is again just a read on Danny that can also go in a hundred different directions, for all we know the specific context of his falling out with Ethan changes things, but I don’t think his serial monogamy has ever been challenged in a romantic context and, yeah, it’d be kinda weird if he either broke up with Sal because he was too hot for Ethan or if another scenario had to be put together where Danny’s girlfriend freaks out and starts hating him and breaks up with him so he can run to Ethan.
In a sexual attraction context yes absolutely he’s been challenged, because he was super hot and bothered for Ethan and he didn’t even have the words to express himself so all he could do was bury himself in guilt and shame that his feelings meant he was cheating on Amber. But that’s not really “I’m in love with two people!” and more “I know I like Amber, but I have Pants Feelings for Ethan, this is wrong, I’m a bad person, I’m a failure.”
Danny believed he was going to give Ethan an incredibly romantic love confession and that they would be together forever. The problem is that Danny, like certain other romantic comedy protagonists, didn’t seem to realize the story wasn’t about HIM. Ethan was terrified and worried about his best friend while in no mood for love. Danny let all his resentment, if not outright hatred, for Mike pour out in that moment. Danny didn’t want Ethan to be worried about Mike, he wanted him to be interested in HIM.
Which forever colors Ethans view of Danny that he is a selfish asshole. Unlike Sal who knows him as a good egg.
I think Ethan isn’t even thinking about Danny’s crappy comment anymore, which is progress. As far as Ethan is concerned, it’s more the issue with Mike dying and what was unresolved with THEM. Danny thinks its about Ethan’s anger with him.
Danny just does not get how deep Ethan’s friendship/bond with Mike was.
Having experienced an estranged friend’s death in my early twenties, I know how easy it is to give the relationship extra meaning because of the shock of the sudden death. I think it would be very easy for Ethan to retroactively decide he was in love with Mike and overlook some of his worst behaviors. I was actually sort of glad that Danny hammered that home, even if it was insensitive and rude. I just wish they’d actually stayed and talked things out. I think now will be that chance.
I might get some hate for this but I don’t get the DoA universe’s obsession over Mike. Yeah, he had a shit life, but he was also a shit person that did and said shit things, and people can’t use a bad childhood as an excuse for hurting others…and one great sacrifice at the end doesn’t justify or excuse the fact that he hurt people.
That’s like when people completely hand-waved Yondu’s abusive parenting in Guardians of the Galaxy because he died at the end. Sure, he died saving Starlord but he also abused him horribly for years before that.
I don’t feel bad for Danny speaking the truth and Ethan being in love with Mike is coloring his viewpoint and turning Mike into some kind of martyr and Danny into some kind of supervillan and it’s ridiculous.
Mike was a crappy friend and now he’s dead. Move on Ethan. Find a boyfriend who actually *cares* about you.
Just to throw my two cents into the issue of ‘Ethan shouldn’t care so much about Mike, he sucked’… it’s not wrong, obviously, Mike was a dick. But I think people tend to forget that for most of his life, Ethan’s oldest and closest friend is Amber. Someone who has severe problems with anger management, including violent outbursts that have at least once been directed at Ethan himself.
None of that’s to say she’s a bad person or ‘worse than Mike’ – whatever her faults are, she’s always tried to do good and help people, or at least minimize harm. But years of being her friend, trying to prop up her self-esteem and comfort her when she’s hurt, has basically primed Ethan to see the best in the ‘difficult’ people he cares about (his relationship with Joyce also demonstrates this tendency, imo). And Mike was an asshole, but he was a predictable asshole, and at times was even a more consistent companion to Ethan than Amber, who often self-isolated and had difficulty being around Ethan in particular whenever she was on a downward spiral due to their history.
All that’s to say… yeah, Ethan’s glossing over a lot of Mike’s bad behavior in the wake of his big sacrifice. But seeing the best in the people he cares about, even at his own expense, is a well-established character trait at this point. And whether or not Mike ‘deserves’ those feelings, I can’t blame Ethan for wanting to think the best of one of his oldest friends and struggling to come to terms with ‘what could have been’ now that he knows Mike was capable of good and genuine care.
Mike was a huge piece of shit friend to Amber and Ethan, two people who just kind of passively tolerate being abused. Then Mike does one thing that challenges that perception to the both of them and the floodgates are open, the Mike they wanted existed all along, and then he’s comatose before they even know what happened to him and dead not long after. Their last memory of Mike is someone who died to save Amber, and he only died because of Amber’s superhero bullshit.
It’s a messy scenario, and it’s messier because we not only know Mike’s exact thought process (he was convinced he was helping them improve through tough love, except whoops he’s actually constantly abusing them and he draws a direct line between himself and Blaine that genuinely horrifies him enough to try and kill him), it’s a pretty safe bet that had he survived he honestly would have immediately set about being a better person. The Mike the both of them wanted was about to come out, and then his death means they’re left with the Mike who would have had a lifetime of being a better person.
Mike and Ethan also hooked up… and when someone you had sex with dies, that is something that gives you pause (even when the hook-up was long ago… but theirs was relatively recent to his passing). So I’m sure that’s messing with him, too.
By DOA universe, I’m not sure if you mean the characters or something else.
For the characters, Mike was extremely important to Amber and Ethan as just about their only childhood friend apart from each other. He was of some importance to Walky as his roommate. Beyond that, nada. So what do you mean by obsession?
Did you mean the DOA commenters “obsession” over Mike? Because, if so, I can offer an explanation.
Ethan is allowed to not be over the death of one of his long-term friends and to absolutely resent the hell out of Danny for being as insensitive as he was and refusing to back off about it. The problem with what he said wasn’t whether it was truthful or correct, but that it was tactless and insensitive in that exact moment and benefited no one.
Even without his love of Mike, Ethan is still allowed to be sad that he died. He knew Mike for years. You can miss a person you knew was awful in a lot of ways and feel bad their chance to do better was taken away from them and that you never got to tell them stuff and that their last memory of you wasn’t a good one (from your perspective).
Yep. And I think it’s going to be quite some time before Amber and Ethan are capable of processing ‘no, he wasn’t just a bad friend, he was actively and consistently detrimental to our mental health.’ Maybe if he hadn’t died when he did, he’d have done something assholish enough to provoke that response, but they hadn’t hit that breaking point yet and now it’ll be much harder.
and “Glossing over abuse because of one dramatic gesture”
Are not the same thing, Sam. ♥
I never said he wasn’t allowed to be sad. I just think it’s ridiculous that almost no one seems to remember how much of an abusive dick Mike was and only remember that one heroic gesture, like it forgives everything else.
You can recognise that someone was both a horrible person a great deal of the time and still also be upset that they died after doing a heroic thing. These are not mutually exclusive. And it makes sense that the characters focused more on how Mike did a big heroic thing: it was surprising and changed their view of Mike. It showed them he wasn’t ALL bad. It conflicts with what they ‘knew’ of him.
It is devastating and has created conflicting feelings for Ethan because if Mike never did any heroic thing at all, then the possibility of him doing better would seem smaller and more of a passing thought. But he died after trying to save Amber from her abusive dad and admitting that Amber and Ethan were his best friends. He revealed the possibility that he could have become a better person. That his personality could have changed if he had lived past that.
His heroic act itself does not undo the abusive actions that Mike did. But it left the unanswerable question of ‘would Mike have become a better person if he lived?’ Which, for someone like Ethan, is something that will circle in his mind. It’s something he has to think about and process that they will never really know for certain.
Understanding where Ethan is coming from and why characters in universe focus on his sacrifice doesn’t mean that I think they should forgive Mike or forget that he did a lot of horrible stuff. Just that moving on isn’t always simple or as straightforward as acknowledging the person was a dick.
It is the fact he did One Big Good Thing that makes it hard to move on as to move on, people have to reconcile that with what they knew of Mike and accept that it is unknowable if he would have been able to change for the better and that he wasn’t simply all bad or all good.
Really really hoping beyond hope that mikes not dead right about now, been reading dumbing of age from like the start and it was the one thing promised to us by willis
Oh, um. Mike’s dead. I get not wanting/liking that, but it’s definitely what happened. There’s been lots of discussion about what Willis actually said about character death, and also that they have the right to change that either way. So. Yeah.
There’s enough wiggle room with the circumstances of his death that a convoluted scheme where Mike’s death was faked for witness protection purposes wouldn’t be complete nonsense, he could be brought back.
It’s not going to happen, and it’d probably be a bad idea, but it could be done.
As someone who has been through it, please don’t call it “Wallowing.” Ever, honestly. Grief is incredibly personal. But this kind of grief? Grief that comes after a violent act? It’s different.
You’re trying to come to grips with a horror-show that is just a never ending spiral of “what ifs.” And it is incredibly hard, especially if you’re a somewhat decent human, to come to terms with the fact that not only is the horror show that humanity has always been real, but that THAT is how you lost them. That someone actively, purposefully, hurt them and STOLE them. It wasn’t old age, illness, or even an accident.
It’s different, and I hope you never have to know what that difference is.
What if I’d said this. What if I’d done that. What if I had texted 6 hours earlier than I did.
Could I have saved them.
And you have to be around people who were related to and/or loved the murderer. They knew them, spent their whole lives together. In my case, they dated my sister when we were younger. They ate Christmas dinner at my Grandmother’s house.
It’s been 7 years, and seeing this particular arc is still a huge gut-punch. It makes me weepy every time.
I’m sorry. 🙁 For what it’s worth, I promise that was just bad phrasing with no ill intent behind it.
I meant it seems like Ethan turned inward, isolating himself instead of leaning on the rest of his social network. (Granted his next closest friend is Amber and their relationship can be… complicated at times…) He’s alone, still treading water in all those what-ifs, and without outside support he’s going to find himself stuck there.
He needs at least one other person to talk with who can help him make peace with his grief and find his new normal.
Loading ...
oh ok all they talked before and we’re at “robots” in their relationship
ThisIsFine.jpg
Yeah, but Danny doesn’t speak “robots” and has no idea what Ethan is really saying.
Honestly, me too.
I just nod and go “uh-huh” a lot at the Transformers-heavy content around here. I’m aware of the property but know jack shit about it besides a few character names and sound effects.
I mean, does he have to?
“When CHARACTER_A died, CHARACTER_B actually got to tell him how he really felt. Things didn’t end forever on the dismissive thing he’d said earlier.”
Holy crap. Danny’s last words to Mike were “Goodbye forever, Mike.” I don’t think he thought he was being honest.
I think the robots are Mike and Ethan, not Danny and Ethan.
Seconded, but danny is hearing the latter.
Good catch! This is the last conversation they had at the birthday party: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-10/02-to-remind-you-of-my-love/empathizing/
Mike was trying to talk about feelings, and Ethan deflected by referencing Mike’s usual shallowness
…oh God, Amber still hasn’t told Ethan has she.
Thanks!
not bothering to check if anyone else shared, but for reference, Danny DOES TOO know they’re TRANSFORMARZ https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/dinobot/
Yeesh. Someone needs an ice cream cone.
Don’t we all?
Or a Snickers. Or maybe a Pepsi.
Pepsi, only if you are in NA, maybe in Asia? Definitely not in EU, the Pepsi here is all artificial sweetener flavor. Ugh. I’ll rather drink RC cola or Coca Cola.
I was referencing the “you’re not you when you’re hungry” Snickers ad campaign, and that completely tone-deaf Pepsi ad from a few years ago where some famous-for-being-famous socialite offers Pepsi to riot cops as a peace offering.
(All big-name sodas are made with artificial sweeteners here in North America. That’s what happens when you subsidize corn production for decades, suddenly everyone uses HFCS!)
Honestly, there are so much better uses for all the corn we overproduce.
My husband was researching new cat litters and Jackson Galaxy had a nice biodegradable corn litter that would be great to try out if we didn’t have 3 cats and would need multiple $30 bags.
Corn sugar is still sugar tho. I mean the pepsi here actually tastes like the artificial sweetener meant for those who can’t consume any sugar at all.
Ah, same ordeal over here in the south americas, pepsi used to be decent up till a couple years back where the original pepsi was “reduced in sugar” by adding a crappy sweetener in it… so coca cola it was, till they also pulled that here, now only the small 1.5L bottles, and for some reason, the 3L bottles have the original recipe, everything else got sweeteners in it.
To clarify, ALL pepsi types got messed with, even that lemon one called “twist”, and only some of the coca cola bottles were left untouched.
Damn…poor Ethan.
I was like yelling “GO TO THERAPY” until i remembered his parents
Also the fourth wall is typically one way only.
I think you’d need a two dimensional hyper shape in order to get them to “hear” you.
Or, depending on the webcomic, a Patreon account.
His name is ‘Emothan’. Like ’emotion’, but with a lithp.
Scott McNeil playing both characters just kind of shows how much range he has.
For some reason my brain went to thinking Scott McNeil was playing both Dinobot and Ethan in this strip.
Man now I’m thinking of who could voice the DOA cast in a cartoon again
We just said, Scott McNeil plays everyone.
Nah, Venus should play someone. But who?
Steve Blum is a perfect fit for Mary though
also, Grav Roulette WIN! I am now the most awesomest character of all time, though i do miss Dina
50/50 chance you’ll get her again after trying a maximum of 17 times.
not Gilbert Gottfried?
id rather be yelling bird, but this is pretty OK
You know you can set your Gravitar to anything you want, right?
Thomas Sanders for Ethan?
mixed up scott mcneil and scott thompson and was kind of weirded out.
Dave Foley still makes the best looking woman of the bunch.
I don’t disagree but I think Scott had the best imitation of a mother in the 80s down. Also I saw Bruce McCollough live on Saturday, great show if it comes near you
Thanks! I’ll keep my peepers peeled.
That was a good episode
Ethan needs the world’s best hug. But also, I can’t stop thinking about the fact that Danny’s face in the last panel is just my customer service smile when a customer says something particularly horrifying
Danny: Holy shit why are the counselors on campus so terrible I am not equipped for this.
And that’s why the best customer service job is over the phone.
Does such a thing as a “best customer service job” actually exist in reality?
ahh, memories of customer facing positions… I have made that face many times before…
I didn’t remember what dismissive thing Ethan was talking about, so I went and found the strip https://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-10/02-to-remind-you-of-my-love/empathizing/
If anyone else is looking
I get the feeling that at some point Ethan realized what Mike and Danny actually had in common.
He’s probably had that interaction running on repeat in his head for a while.
I thought he was talking about the last thing he and Danny said to one another.
Danny’s still alive to be confessed to.
But he might die of awkwardness soon.
So I checked the strip before that one and I can’t remember: is “goodbye forever, Mike” actually the last thing Danny ever said to him?
Because that is *very* unfortunate.
oops
it is
It is, but that can’t possibly be what Ethan was referring to. He didn’t hear the interaction between Mike and Danny and had to ask Mike why Danny left.
Yeah, Ethan’s talking about his own last interaction with Mike, but it’s still unfortunate.
Yeah, Mike was saying that Danny and he both loved Ethan. Ethan thought he was making a tasteless joke.
Man, I should’ve scrolled down further. I also went looking.
Poor Ethan.
To be fair, if not for everything involved, Mike would definitely be okay with his final interaction with someone being a fucked-someone’s-mom joke.
Hell, if I remember right, his final interaction with anyone was a “fucked your mom” joke … followed by tackling him over a railing.
After the fall he calls Amber/AG (not sure he was aware of the distinction) a good friend (as we see in a flashback). That mom joke was totally intended as potential last words though.
Damn! So close!
I should’ve known it was a “I banged your mom” joke.
Actually, I thought Ethan was referring to the incident where he and Danny broke up after Danny compared Mike to Darth Vader while he was in a coma. You know, ’cause that’s the way Danny’s mouth works.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-10/04-is-a-song-forever/alderaan/
I went looking for this too, then poked around a bit and found Danny’s last words to Mike. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-10/02-to-remind-you-of-my-love/clingyweirdos/
Thank for digging that up!
But also OUCH ;~;
Ouch, Ethan’s quips are razor sharp now
He’s been honing them for months.
I have to ask, but are you a time traveler, Needfuldoer? I see my post dated November 8, at 12:07 am, but your reply is dated November 8, at 8:27 am. What gives? Your gravatar is pseudo Doc Brown, but are you the REAL Doc Brown?
… 8:27 AM comes after 12:07 AM.
That’s why you always gotta end ever conversation saying something really kind. Even when you’re mad at someone. Cuz who knows! Just make sure you end every conversation with something you’d be satisfied with in case it’s the last thing you say to them. Cuz inevitably it will be.
ninja i
ack! pht!
Yotomoe the ninja is correct.
“Fuck you! But be well I’m sure there’s a reason people cherish you.”
Let me counter that with no. I did that for the vast majority of my life and it wasn’t good for my mental health. Even if I was mad or hurt or the nice thing I said wasn’t genuine, I always ended every conversation on a positive note. Always tell the people that I cared about that I loved them. I never realized until this last year how much the thought of never speaking to someone again because the left me or died weighed on my mind. How much I suppressed my own feelings because what if what I say hurts them or leads them to hurt themselves? It even lead me to allow some of the toxic people to stay in my life out of fear of their mental state or needing my help.
But that’s not on me. What would happen after that would have jack shit to do with me. If I love somebody and they died tomorrow and our last conversation wasn’t great, they will STILL know I loved them and visa versa.
And honestly? If someone died and you allow yourself to focus on what you should have done different, you will always ALWAYS find something and the guilt and other shame based emotions will become a part of you for years. When I lost the most important person in my life, I hated myself for not seeing her more when I could, watching tv a lot when I visited, not making that last visit more than mediocre, and getting a migraine so bad I couldn’t stand so I physically couldn’t be there her last good day. It took me a decade to finally start letting go of all that shame and suppressed feelings. And she wasn’t the only loved one I’ve lost either, by distance or by death. To live life like every interaction might be your last? It wasn’t kind to me. It was pessimistic, tainted interactions, forced me to put my needs last, ran on shame, and make me think far too much about how everybody would eventually leave me.
It was FREEING to hang up the phone on my dad when he ignored my wishes. Important to set up boundaries with consequences. Leave conversations how I genuinely wanted to instead of how I was compelled to by fear. Let feelings sit a few hours or even a few days. Not spam the L word and instead just exist and say it when I want instead of from anxiety. Be sad, be mad, be imperfect. I’m naturally on the kind side, but I don’t have to be. I can be harsh. Walk away. Put myself first. I’m allowed a healthy level of selfishness (just like whomever is reading this right now).
A finite life is a beautiful thing. Try your best, allow yourself to fail and learn from it, and be present. ♡
This was beautiful.
Thank you so much! Late night ramblings dude XD
Thank you, I needed to hear that.
You’re beyond welcome. It helped me and I hope it helps you too. ♡
Some is old knowledge, but I also learned a lot of it while I was in an outpatient partial hospitalization program (think a step between regular therapy and needing to go to a hospital) earlier this year. I’ve never been the group type, but it was set up more like a class (mostly on DBT, TREM, and Expressive Therapy) which helped. Don’t get me wrong, it was a lot of work, but I came out the other side feeling better then I have in a long time and my emotional baseline has remained solid in the months since. ^_^
Random fun fact, but I started reading DoA about 5 or 6 years ago. Despite currently reading 95 comics (just counted), DoA is still my favorite. Also, Ruth made me cry the first time I read through it.
I am so happy for you.
Relevant xkcd – https://xkcd.com/791/
So is he mad about what Danny said or is he mad that Danny hasn’t tried to rebuild the bridge? Both? 60/40?
I think he’s mad that the last thing that he said to Mike wasn’t nice. He reads to me as more upset with himself than with Danny.
Someone linked the last convo between Ethan and Mike a few comments above, he’s probably referring to that
He’s mad about what he said to Mike, and he is asking Danny to re-engage so that the cruel things they said to each other in their last conversation won’t be the last things they say to each other.
I didn’t predict that Ethan’s first lines of dialogue after returning would be angsty Transformers metaphors, but I really should have.
Time to
CrateFurmanism starts… *clicks stopwatch* now.I’m kinda wondering how much of Ethan’s dialogue is Transformers references.
You know things are serious when he uses his Dinobota to prove a point.
Besides that, I just can’t take my mind off how cute he looks!
*Dinobots
See what I mean?
Dinobot, singular. The Dinobots are another thing and Dinobot is not one of them.
?
I guess Ethan does have multiple Dinobot toys, so Dinobots is technically correct.
Yes, but he technically used only one of them to make his point.
A point which is lost on Danny.
Like I said, technically. A singular Dinobot would still be more correct.
The Dinobots are, IIRC, 5 Transformers from the original canon that landed on Earth before Optimus Prime and company. Their alternate forms were a T. rex, a Stegs, a Trike, a Pteranodon, and a sauropod. None of them were called Dinobot.
Dinobot is a Transformer that can turn into a featherless raptor from the Transformers: Beast Wars show, which I could never get into because I can’t stand the CGI 3D shit it was used to make the animation. He is not one of Dinobots.
Clear and concise; thank you.
He’s not cute. He is suffering. I know, it’s because dark guy and shit, but he s completely different…
“Downwind of you, for preference.”
I knew I’d get beaten to that.
Oh Ethan…
Been there.
Aaaand Danny just tries to slide back into casual conversation as if he hadn’t been a total shithead the last time they’d talked. Very smooth, Dan.
Shit like this is why I find him unlikable.
It’s been three months, and they live in pretty close proximity. They’ve definitely talked since then.
It sure feels like this is the first time they’ve seen each other since then.
It’s definitely been a while, winter break and all.
That’s not a guarantee.
They’ve definitely seen each other, I think, but I kinda doubt they’ve talked.
That was my read on it, too.
How else would you do it? You need to establish some kind of communication, figure out if the other person is open to talk, before you can launch into something intense like an apology speech.
Yes because reminding someone of the shitty thing you said is a great way to start a conversation. Especially if that person is grieving, but fuck Danny for trying to at least start a conversation with him, right?
Yes. Because instead of being like, “Hey! You seem a lot better after your friend who I said deserved to die, like, died!” he could have been more like “Hey, so last time we talked, I was a real asshole, and I’m sorry.”
The last time we saw them talk probably isn’t the last time these two talked.
Also, apologizing for being a real asshole is more appropriate for when you’ve been a real asshole than for when your timing was insensitive.
It’s pretty obviously just his attempt at an icebreaker. He’s awkward. He didn’t know what else to say. Come on. Do you think he would have said the stupid thing that got him into this position to begin with if he was capable of smoothly navigating a stressful conversation?
The problem isn’t that Danny’s just “awkward.” It’s that he’s self-absorbed, inconsiderate, and worst of all, unkind. It’s not just about being able to “smoothly navigate a stressful conversation,” it’s about having some goddamn empathy.
Are we talking about the same character?
They seem to have mistaken incompetence for malice, pretty classic error.
So, no, they aren’t talking about the same character. They are talking about a character in a confusingly different comic they are reading.
I think you’re confusing Danny with Mike here.
If that’s how you’re choosing to read his character, okay…
I mean you’re wrong but you’re entitled to that i guess
I don’t think Danny’s the jerk you think he is. Especially since pretty much all of Danny’s interactions with Mike were Mike being an asshole to him.
Every time somebody goes “how can you talk poorly of dead people, they’re dead?!” I’m reminded of this lady, who is life goals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUlj48Rvp1c
Yeah.
Speaking ill of the dead kicks ass. I spoke ill of them when they were alive too and now they don’t get to enjoy their material wealth at the expense of everyone else anymore.
It’s gucci.
I heard he also puts the milk carton back in the fridge when it’s empty
I’m pretty sure if someone told me “Your loved one deserves to die,” and my loved one died, and they told me “I actually didn’t mean that, I’m sorry,” it would ring hollow, no matter how genuine they managed to sound.
And Danny probably can’t make it sound genuine anyway, because Mike sucked the life and happiness out of everyone around him.
I’m fairnesss that is not what Danny said. Ethan said the doctors were saying Mike wouldn’t wake up “for a while.” And Danny asked “Would that be so bad?” Which was an awful thing to say, but not the same as saying Mike deserved to die.
Yeah that’s not what happened.
Last strip is exactly how that went down: Danny thought something callous and it popped out.
Except it was about Mike, the worst person in the cast. As in, Mike himself realized he himself was the worst person in the cast who constantly egged on Amber’s trauma and did, in fact get Blaine to drive Amber that night five years ago because he thought it’d be funny.
He apologized, Ethan started going off about how actually Mike was good and saved the day, and then Danny said something completely normal like “dude this guy abused everyone around him all the time.”
Feelings got hurt, Ethan got mad, Danny shot back that Mike would totally be a huge dickbag on purpose if Danny were in a coma (as in he did this exact thing when Ruth was hospitalized and Billie was really messed up, he just started mouthing off about it to Walky. Anyone wanna tell me that was helpful?) so Ethan went “shit yeah I would he’s allowed to get away with that since I’ve known him longer than you.”
That’s probably a half-truth because the one time in the whole comic Ethan has ever
stood upvaguely rose his gelatinous form upright in a way that resembles having a spine was that Mike not do his Mike thing to Danny (when Mike was writing down info on Danny on Mike’s Day Planner for Making Everyone Miserable), so Mike came up with his plan to fuck Ethan to make Danny jealous, and his decision to fuck Ethan was made in that moment.Except Ethan totally lets Mike get away with being a huge shithead all the time and just kind of rolls his eyes whenever he’s a horrible bastard to everyone around him, he’s been compliant in Mike’s abuse of himself and Amber, so actually Danny was completely right about Ethan. At worst, Ethan would say “hey, come on, now” before Mike moved onto something else.
Ehhh, yes and no.
Danny’s callousness goes beyond making a shitty comment. Danny was upset with Ethan being worried about Mike when he was trying to make a love confession. Except they were IN A HOSPITAL and it was totally inappropriate to do that. Then when Ethan justifiably is not in a romantic mood, Danny made a comment about it being better if Mike didn’t wake up. He made the whole thing about HIM and that by itself was pretty awful. Except when Ethan called him out on it, Danny doubled down by saying how Mike was a shitty person.
Danny is basically Joyce in Joyce/Becky except Mike instead of God.
I vehemently disagree with your read of this situation but I feel the same with everything else.
I’m curious what you disagree with. We know that Danny stuck his foot in his mouth at a dramatically inappropriate place and time. You don’t insult someone’s friend while they’re in a hospital let alone make a love confession.
I’m saying you and I have come to different conclusions about the characters, their interactions, the themes of the series and the narrative itself that they’re just kind of incompatible. We process this series on two different wavelengths, and that’s fine, I’m the one who’s made a running gag of being wrong all the time.
Oh and that callous thinking was if Mike not waking up for a while (as in that is the direct thing Danny was responding to) would be so bad, not him dying in a coma.
When I think casual conversation, I think naked panic and running through a script of everything wrong you could possibly say before starting to speak.
Doesn’t sound like these two have talked much lately. That’s sad but at least they’re talking now? Progress????
Alrighty, let’s see how the new Search for Sal turns out.
Acceptable for the night. I love Dina <3
Would love to agree with that with a Becky avatar, but I haven’t run across her yet.
So reroll.
Yeah, I keep getting duplicates.
I’m pretty happy with my laptop grav, but let’s see if I can’t find a good alternate grav for phone use. Here’s trying for today!
Hrrm. I’ll try again tomorrow, but will consider it.
I don’t think they should talk. The last thing Danny said to Ethan was basically “I’m glad your best friend is in the hospital, he sucked”
Maybe they can communicate entirely in poop and finger emoticons.
It’s complicated by Mike having been a manipulative and abusive bully to everyone he knew, including Ethan.
They’re both allowed to have differing feelings towards Mike.
But personally, if I hated someone that someone else was grieving, it would be in kinda poor taste to go ‘wow your loved one sucked’.
Time and place.
Honestly, just saying that wasn’t even Danny’s mistake. He could easily have just gone “oh shit, I’m sorry, why the hell did I say that?” and been forgiven. It’s the fact that he pretty much refused to back down on the point in that moment, like an idiot.
Basically. ‘I’ve never gotten along with him, but that was out of line, I’m sorry, I obviously hope he recovers and I’m so sorry you’re going through this’ isn’t actually the kind of arcane mystery only the Truly Emotionally Mature can navigate. Save the litigating how you don’t like how he treats his supposed best friends, much less everyone else, for any other time but ‘outside his hospital room, the day after said friends were kidnapped by the guy who put him in a coma, they have barely left said hospital since.’ They’re not ready to hear it now, and ESPECIALLY after Danny started the topic with serious foot-in-mouth syndrome, there was no way the conversation could be broached delicately right then. Just apologize, offer vague sympathies, and yeah that means Ethan’s being sad about and idealizing a real abusive jerk right now, but you cannot argue someone out of being sad. Especially not when what they’re sad about is a longtime friend being in a COMA after their other longtime friend’s EVIL MOBSTER DAD WHO MURDERED HIS ACCOMPLICE IN FRONT OF THEM YESTERDAY threw him off a building.
He did back down. He apologized right after saying it.
Then Ethan went “oh Mike was such a special hero boy mwah mwah mwah all is forgiven forever”
And Danny being an 18 year old who, like every single other person in the cast who isn’t Ethan, never had a pleasant interaction with him in his life, said “okay but everything he’s ever done has been inflicting misery, including on you.”
The sad reality is that this all could have worked out if Mike hadn’t died. Mike did want to be a better person, that’s why he fucking died. Danny’s feelings and statements were completely sensible and only inappropriate in that immediate moment in time, and I think Ethan would have eventually realized that. If Mike had lived this was something the both of them could have talked through, the consequences of a conservation about Mike not waking up would never exist.
It’s a character drama. The characters do say dumb things in their coming of age story!
… hey, I wonder if I could make a pun off of that
but you know, rude is replacing wrong now.
(Not just now, but it got multiplied by social networks)
So, the truth, then.
Just don’t let Dina see that toy. Wrists are totally wrong in beast mode.
Wrist position is all too important for the dinosaur simulacrum!
Strenuous, yes, but all too essential for the pleasure!!!
Too late.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/velociraptor/
Luck of the draw, Ethan.
We will lose more people as we age. Let’s consider the possibilities before saying everything to those close to us.
Or realize life happens that way and don’t ruin yourself over it.
Some people gain more people as they age.
Ethan doesn’t seem to be one of those people.
Oooor he’s allowed to be mad at Danny about it? When so far he hasn’t apologised?
I think he’s mad at himself here, not Danny.
Ethan contains multitudes, he can be mad at multiple people at once.
Why the hell not there’s plenty of anger to go around.
I agree. Ethan seems to me to be mad at himself over the terms on which he parted from Mike, and to be asking Danny to re-engage so that the cruel terms of their last conversation are not the terms they part on.
To be fair, it wasn’t as dismissive as the last thing Danny said to Mike. Which was “Goodbye forever.” Though…in a weird way, that was a very appropriate thing for him to say.
Maybe Ethan should have taken some time away from school, or more time if he already did. Grieving over the loss of a friend is never easy but adding the pressure of college will only make it harder, in my opinion at least.
What do you guys think? Should he have taken some time away from all this or not?
That’s very contextual and case by case. It’s possible Ethan would have deforested further if he was out of school and had nothing to do but ruminate.
Also his phone isn’t exactly a good place to be with homophobic parents.
*home
First knifes are phones, but now homes too?!?
Living in a knife sounds both dangerous and uncomfortable.
At least it doesn’t sound dull, though.
Some people like living on the edge.
Indeed, it helps keep their minds sharp.
Which, as we all know, is fundamental in making cutting remarks.
It helps if they’re straight to the point, too.
These are my people.
It’s honestly hard to tell, without knowing how Ethan feels about college and why he’s attending at all. Like, is it just the default after-high-school thing for him? Is there a specific job he’s gunning for?
Like, put someone like Dorothy into the situation and I’d say absolutely not. It would hurt more to take time off. But Ethan is not Dorothy and I don’t know what the trade-off is, for him. Or say, Ruth: college is a safe haven from her grandfather. Would Ethan prefer to be under the burden of schoolwork, or camped at home alone without an ally like Amber, listening to his mother be shitty about being gay?
I just can’t make the call without knowing more about how he sees his world. Like, it was Mike who criticized him for buying from Chick-fil-a despite its anti-gay public position. What would hurt more?
Regarding Amber being an ally – At the end of the previous chapter, Amber seemed to be giving up on her friendship with Ethan. Which honestly is the one thing I did not understand about how the previous chapter ended.
Did I interpret things incorrectly? If so, someone please explain to me what I missed.
I definitely get the impression that Ethan gave up on his friendship with her, and she either failed to stop it, or didn’t try. Probably the latter, in a “It’s about time you realized how awful I am. Good for you.” kind of way, as Amber and Amazi-Girl are both wont to do.
It’s part of a longer conversation on how Amber processes things (as in I was like six paragraphs into a character dive before I realized I hadn’t answered you in the slightest), but cliffnotes: Amber takes ownership of the suffering of everyone around her, particularly Ethan, to fuel a suicidal death march where her first eight weeks in college had two car chases and one part where she was hoping Sal would murder her, and Mike was comatose in the hospital and Ethan had no idea and neither did Amber because her DID was so bad now she was blacking out when Amazi-Girl took the wheel.
She realized she had done wrong by him again and, for a brief moment, agreed that she needed to heal productively. She could love herself at least as much as Mike did, and the abandonment of Ethan was letting him stew and be mad at her instead of using that guilt to punch people forever, whereupon Ethan has to nanny and dote on her to make her feel better instead of letting himself feel anything he needed to. The point was that Amber would heal, Ethan could heal, Mike would definitely heal, and they could move on.
This did not shake out.
So now Amber and Ethan are emotionally deadened and Amber’s backslid into “I’m seriously fucked up with no hope of recovery” but with roller derby as an outlet instead of rampaging violence. We don’t know Amber’s direct motivation for not seeing Ethan anymore long term, but guilt’s a pretty good guess. Mike died saving her life, and I’m not entirely unconvinced Ethan doesn’t blame her, since he only died saving her life from her supervillain dad, and then his dad kidnapped Ethan and all his friends and then assaulted him a bunch.
Ethan was definitely REALLY upset with Amber not telling him that 1) AG isn’t her alter-ego, she’s another person sharing the body and 2) they were not sharing memories for weeks, which directly put them in danger due to the Blaine thing and left Mike alone. I’d guess given Ethan is unfortunately VERY familiar with Blaine that he wouldn’t hold the Freshman Family Weekend fights that prompted the grudge against her – Blaine would have held a grudge about anything she did, and he didn’t have an issue with AG until he realized it was dangerous FOR AMBER and then because the loss of memory directly harmed them. But that memory loss caused enough issues that he may well resent her for it still, especially because he’s not doing well.
He also pointed out that because of Amber’s issues, it’s very difficult to talk about how their mutual traumas affect him, because Amber tends to either take ownership for it unnecessarily or say something that’s so actively worrisome it kind of demands attention (such as the ‘my survivor’s guilt may have manifested a Brain Ghost Mike.’) Either option sort of derails it and makes it about Amber, which genuinely isn’t ideal. I could see the two of them justifiably needing a Friendship Break to reset the pattern, especially while that latest trauma was so fresh and it became very clear Amber needed competent professional help. Unfortunately, Mike’s death made everything worse for both of them, and Amber did not find competent professional help.
Don’t look at me. I’m still processing Spencer’s distinction between Roller Derby and rampaging violence.
All I really gathered is that it’s a skating rink and someone puts a hat over their helmet.
I’m not actually convinced Amber got help so much as that was Walky talking about his own experiences, presumably for grief counseling at Mike’s death.
Entirely possible, but given Amber and Ethan’s conversation about how this really wasn’t sustainable and Amber agreeing about it, the fact that Mike was one of her best friends too and was ultimately killed by her own father (who then kidnapped her, and murdered the other kidnapper, and is also dead now,) and all of this occurring after she repeatedly stabbed a would-be rapist trying to break into their dorm to threaten her friends (something which IS publicly known to be Amber)… if no one on campus at least STRONGLY ENCOURAGED she go see the counselors for a session or two, I will be shocked. And I think Amber in those initial days was willing to try. We don’t know when exactly the backslide occurred, or how long Mike lingered in that coma before dying.
Hell, Richard could’ve gotten her an appointment with some highly-recommended private practice grief counselor and I can still see that going badly given how tricky it is to find competent psychologists for DID.
I really don’t think so, sadly. Other than Wally briefly and maybe Sal no one in Amber’s friend group really knows what’s going on or are equipped to understand it. I get the feeling Mike’s death shot any motivations she had to getting counseling.
Richard means well by Stacy and Amber, I think that’s outright clear, you don’t pay legal fees for your hookup’s daughter, but I doubt he’s confident enough to sus out anything up with Amber without Stacy’s go- ahead,and she is honest to god clueless.
It’s kinda true to life, honestly. Amber’s viscerally traumatized and ill but no one thinks twice since she has a routine and isn’t visually and verbally affirming to everyone that she’s desperately in need of help.
… okay so when Richard inevitably ruins things, do you think it’ll be a plot point that Stacy feels financially trapped because of Ryan’s family suing?
At one point I think Ruth told her to look into therapy and her response was “No one can handle ME” (a very immature but realistic view on therapy for someone with her experiences) so even if they suggested it, you cant force someone to go unless you put them in a psyche ward. I don’t know if this comic would tackle that, but if it continues this way, in the real world she likely would get put on a psyche hold if someone of authority discovered the whole other person living in her head (or her Mike hallucination).
That’s a really interesting about how Amber takes on everyone’s problems as if they’re her own. Thanks for pointing that out Spencer. I see it now.
It all depends what he would have done instead. What were his feasible alternatives?
See if this was a series, New Ethan would suddenly have a new voice actor and people would be scrambling to complain about how they preferred OG Ethans’s voice how dare this new one show up.
Fuuuuuck, I guess the worse thing he can rap his head around about Mike’s tragic death is whether or not if he treated him the worse out of everyone right before his coma.
Maybe he can do a rap about Mike’s death. That would’ve been worse.
It’d definitely start “Well my name is Danny, and I’m here to say…”
…a friend of yours dyin’ can ruin your day!
So! What do we think Ethan is talking about here? What Mike said to Danny, what Mike said to him, or what Danny said to him?
The last interaction between Ethan and Mike, definitely.
I mean his last moments with him was him flirting with other guys in front of him before getting in his face about Danny despite actually behaving that night.
The potential it offers is wild in terms of drama. I’m kind of hoping it’s his feelings for Danny mixed up with his anger at Danny’s last words, but the other possibilities are just as dramatic.
Probably what he said to Mike, since that’s what he just said and all.
He doesn’t know what Mike said to Danny, and the reference has no parallels to his own conversation with Danny–unless he’s proposing reconciling because he doesn’t want to risk that being their last conversation. But he doesn’t, quite, seem to be doing that.
His last words with Mike, yeah.
(I thought it was Danny until other, smarter people on patreon pointed out otherwise)
The last thing Mike and Ethan talked about was Ethan dismissing Mike talking about how he and Danny had something in common, which Ethan shrugged off as Mike banging both their moms and then went back to hang out with his current fling.
What Ethan said to Mike last, obviously
I think he’s talking about his desire that his friendship etc. with Danny not end as his friendship etc. with Mike did.
So you’re… able to talk about it?
So does that mean Mike is going to get cloned (Booster?)
and then original Mike’s memories are going to be put in the clone for an episode we never see but need to have happened for the end to make more sense?
Nonsense, Willis already confirmed that Jennifer is Mike.
Source?
I mean SAUCE?
Citation is banging Asher. Obv.
Here’s your source, as requested: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-11/03-see-you-in-the-funny-page/rockypatch/#comment-1529265
straight from the keyboard of “Damn You” Willis
hahaha nice
Hey you even got your original avatar back!
You’re going two for two!
I’d say Ethan needs to stop blaming himself, but if he could do that he wouldn’t have strolled in looking like he’s recently gained a newfound appreciation for Maximal screamo.
I fear they’re both going to talk past each other again, with Ethan referring to his own dismissive last words to Mike and Danny thinking Ethan is talking about him, because Danny’s Danny.
Half the commenters seem to think Ethan is talking about Danny, despite that not fitting what he said at all.
Oof. I know Dan was a dick back then, but the secondhand pain I’m feeling right now is real.
Do we need to know particulars about Dinobot and Rattrap’s relationship? I assume Ethan’s talking about the last thing he said to Mike. Did Dinobot and Rattrap have sex?
I can guarantee that there’s something like than on Ao3, but as I recall it was more of a long running rivalry that developed into a sort of mutual respect
Rattrap was extremely distrustful of Dinobot and essentially acted like a dick to him until he apologized prior to Dinobot dying after sacrificing himself selflessly to protect primitive humans. So, no, no sex.
If they were physically capable, (and they might have been, I’m not sure) I can absolutely believe they would have hatefucked at some point.
Unless there’s something in that context that completely recontextualizes it, I don’t think so. I mean, I don’t know anything about Dinobot and Rattrap and it makes sense to me.
They do in my fanfic.
Hey, Ethan.
Haven’t seen you in a while.
You doing okay?
You want a cookie?
(someone get Ethan a cookie)
(NOW)
Two days ago, there was cake.
ethan, baby..
Run Danny. Nothing you can do or say will fix this
Danny! Swerve!
Act with integrity…
… many regrets!
Stop dissing the writing of the comic you are in, Ethan.
I fail to see how this is a writing diss. Characters need to die with unfinished business or there’s no tragedy!
Eh. Mike’s business was pretty finished. Ethan’s business is the unfinished bit, and he’s right there.
Not really. With Mike we saw the set-up for personal growth, with the realization of an actual romantic fondess and the realization that he’d been a jackass, but he died before we could see him handle that.
Yeah.
That’s what makes it a good tragedy. Mike honest to god would have changed, he would have been the Mike that Ethan wanted him to be, surviving meant Danny and Ethan could cut to the chase about what that fight actually was about, Amber probably would have kept her word and went to therapy.
And then, it all crumbles.
There’s a black comedy element in WOLF HALL where Thomas Cromwell is thinking about his longstanding but friendly debate with Sir Thomas Moore regarding Protestanism vs. Catholicism. Then how, right in the middle of it, Moore was executed by Henry VIII. Which he likens to walking on a road and then someone dying by falling into a sinkhole. He then remembers this actually happens a lot and he needs to get the roads fixed.
What’s with these Ethans dissin’ the writing?
Why do they gotta front?
Oh dear. When their last talk happened, I had to take a break from Dumbing of Age for a couple of days, so I could read it all in one go and be done with it. I can handle sad stuff, but not the intense level of second-hand embarrassment that brought. It was also an issue that came a bit as a shock; they had been friends, maybe could be something more, and then ONE conversation went SO wrong, I felt that that would be incredibly difficult to move forward from. When Mike died, that made it so bad I figured they’d never speak to each other again.
Perhaps I should take a break a couple of days again, cause right now, this is so damn embarrassing.
I know he’s not in a healthy place right now, but I gotta say, this is a good look for him
I read entire Dumbing of Age and still didn’t get the Transformers hype of all characters…
It’s just the two characters really, specifically the two who originate from the comic about toy jokes and opinions
The author, too. After following Willis, I never realized how big is this francise.
Yknow what should be comforting? Mike knew. It’s Mike. He read ppl like primary school readers. Run spot run.
There’s still A LOT to grieve, but Mike knew Ethan better than Ethan knew himself, a cathartic final line doesn’t matter to Mike’s knowledge of what Ethan thought of him.
I remember when I’ve said: some people dying, like Mike, could improve their around. I’ve said it for Walky. Sadly, this was not enough for Ethan. I confess I fear that, too, in a way or another.
… spoiler warning for Beast Wars, btw.
Wait we got new gravatars again?
it changes times in times,
Create an account on wordpress and you can set your own
But then I wouldn’t get to try different ways of putting capital letters in my email address to get a good one.
Like, I’ve tried three different ones now. None of them were awful, but none of them were really great either. I’ll keep trying
The nerdiest emo
I emphasize with Ethan here. I was ignoring my brother for weeks over something stupid before he died. And the last time I ever saw my mom alive, I made her cry. That shit just plays on repeat in your head for a long time, logic be damned, and Ethan has only had a few months to even BEGIN to process the loss (and the guilt from that last interaction.)
Sorry about your losses
Gravatar test
I think this is fine? I’ll keep trying just in case
Lol
Appropriate
Nope
Better but we’ll keep going
Aight
Ok
Beep
Meh
Hm
Again
Another
Btw, feel free to delete this, Willis
How this
Malaya again
Given that I got three Robins, I’ll settle for this for now
Looks at thread for three Robins. Doesn’t see any.
Honestly Danny
I’d be doing the same thing
Last panel is the best! Danny looks really scared and awkward at the maximum levels.
I support this so hard but feel a bit bad for Danny, who just started a new relationship. Things are never simple for him romantically.
Is he even into Ethan anymore? Per how he describes his own romantic inclinations, he’s a one person kinda guy.
I don’t think it’s just romance drama between the two, I think a big chunk of this is “the last argument I had with this guy went so south I can’t ever actually make up for it, and even if I could I don’t think he wants me to try” with a dash of “is anyone looking after him? Is he talking to anyone?”
I think he has unresolved feelings, yeah. Right now he’s focused on the awkwardness of the situation but if they get the chance to really talk, I think it will stir up some stuff. He was pretty into Ethan and also there’s that unexplored bisexuality angle. I know he was buying Sal gifts but she’s the one that kissed him, I almost see it as him going along with it rather than choosing her.
I just hope these two get to have a real conversation, even if it’s painful. What was said last time was harsh but I think they could have worked it out if Danny hadn’t stormed away.
There’s a good argument Ethan is tortured because he realized he was in love with Mike and maybe vice versa.
Danny under no circumstances could comprehend this.
Yeah, on second read this is my take. Ethan has realised sleeping with Mike and then being all “whew I am glad I got that out of my system, see yuh” actually hurt Mike, who did have feelings all along.
I don’t know how much Ethan knows about Sal, the mob situation, why Blaine target Mike, etc. but there’s a good chance he’s found a few things out.
Yeah it’s easy to forget since it’s been a good couple years now, but Ethan was attracted to him, he just knew to get the hell out of dodge once they slept together. He didn’t look twice at him again afterwards since, in any other circumstance, it wouldn’t have mattered, that’s Mike. He’s just someone who’s fine to hang around with sometimes.
That’s why Ethan’s so fucked up now, because not only did Mike die saying Amber, the last time Ethan would ever talk to him involved him dismissively walking away after Mike said that he and Danny finally had something in common, and so Mike just ran with another joke about fucking his mom instead of saying out loud that he caught something real for Ethan.
Mike died saving Amber from a trap that he set for her and lured her into.
True, but I doubt Ethan knows that part.
Given Richard knew Blaine was a mob stooge (and that was our first confirmation that backstory carried over,) and Amber’s long since known, I think it’s reasonable to guess Ethan knew as well, and that fact came out in some form during the divorce. So he wouldn’t have been surprised to know Mike knew, either. That Mike knew details and was shouting them out to keep their attention off the party where Ethan and Becky still were, and I think he believed Amber to have been, is probably not known by anyone still alive unless Robin’s security detail was already in place outside the apartments the day of the party. And did nothing whatsoever when Ross showed up, when Blaine proposed killing an 18-year-old, or when this turned into an actual chase. (Possible given what we saw of them, but nonetheless STUNNINGLY incompetent.) But I think AG may have heard the tail end there, so she may have guessed the rest and passed that info on.
I mean, his bisexuality was explored, it still is. What Danny explored was that his feelings were natural and beautiful, he found himself so relieved in saying out loud that he was hot for Ethan that he says without a hint of irony that he can’t believe everyone isn’t a little bit bi.
Affirming his bisexuality was the catalyst for Danny to start outgrowing all the other bad shit he subsumed himself in. He wasn’t going to go find someone else and be his Wife’s Husband anymore, he started exploring who he wanted to be as a person so he became a ukulele dork in a dapper hat. He’s more conscious of his fashion choices (in that iconic bisexual no fashion sense energy way), he’s so happy with who he is he’ll make bi puns in front of Sal and that is actually Peak Bisexual.
And, y’know, while he was doing all that soul searching he was totally falling for Ethan, he was in fact comfortable being smitten with and wanting to pursue a man, and it only didn’t work because of that one final argument that ultimately resulted in Danny vocalizing his objections with a situation instead of slavishly submitting to his beau because having his own opinions is stupid and wrong, because his parents constantly reinforced in him that his only value was through his romantic partner.
That’s only unexplored bisexuality if Danny’s exploration is only complete once he has placed another man’s penis in his mouth.
And, y’know, Sal making the first move might be a bit important to a character who has trouble seeing his own worth, and then when he comes back after they make it official Danny says to Joe that maybe Sal likes him because he’s an interesting person with cool hobbies who can go down on a lady while swinging from a grappling hook. That’s not “going along with it”, that’s him saying out loud to another guy, the one guy who constantly put him down for having bullshit unmanly feelings, that Danny is a cool person who has worth to himself and the coolest, raddest person he knows sees it in him too.
I can see Danny’s been changing but I didn’t realize the catalyst was being open about his sexuality. I like his newfound confidence but I do think there are further angles of his sexuality to be explored. Like navigating a relationship with a man. Introducing a man to his parents. I think he still has room to grow and I don’t think his feelings for Ethan are completely dead because of one argument and a few months apart. This is going to be a confusing situation for him, and if he’d talked with Ethan last week things with Sal might have gone differently.
Well yeah he’s always going to have room to grow. He’ll stop having room to grow when he stops being a major, story-driving character because that’d mean the well of Danny stories had been tapped out.
Is navigating a relationship with a man something Danny would find strange or new? Does he still hold onto those separations of Dating Girls and Dating Boys as distinct things, or does he now process it as “find The One, who can be a girl or a boy”? By the time he was actively mooning over Ethan and chafing under that “haha we can’t date ever” thing, that kind of struck me as Danny confirming that being in love with a man was a natural part of his life now. Plus, we already kinda know how the Wilcoxen would react; poorly. They’re dickheads. They’ll probably be dickheads if they meet Sal too because “how could you dump the nice girl in glasses who’s like Dorothy, whom dating was your best feature?”
So regarding the overall topic of sexual exploration: In writing this I’m not trying to press my own relationship with my sexuality onto Danny, so much that I read something similar in him that can absolutely be contradicted at his leisure, and more broadly that it is something that exists. I’ve only ever been with one girl in my life and that was long enough ago that I’m pretty sure my virginity has burned itself back into existence, and the furthest I’ve gotten with a man was… two years after I came out? I remember bragging about it here and I think it was my final year of college but anyway I told him I thought he was attractive, and that was a big deal to me. I knew I was bi, I was comfortable and asserted in my attraction to men, but it was important I say it out loud because I wanted to hear myself say it. I didn’t know how to approach a man that way until I went for it and realized I still don’t know how to approach a man and also women and I’m a very round and anxious person who is bad at flirting, but, y’know, it was a personal victory.
I bring that up to say that, yes, you can be confident in being bisexual without confirming it through sex. If I do end up with a man then that’s just how it’ll be, but it’s never be going to be something I have to confirm to myself by getting high on Cadbury Cream Egg cereal, banging a dude on camera, and creating world peace for a couple weeks. It’s just there. I’ve never had to prove I like girls, y’know?
But, I do want to reiterate that this is me, there’s zero necessity for Danny let alone any actual bi person here to follow that same kind of “what does it mean to me?” pathway, it’s absolutely 100% valid to explore it however you want, I was just trying to share my own exploration to affirm it is one of the ways to do it.
Lastly, I don’t really know what “dead” feelings mean to Danny, I suppose. Like with Amber and his outrage that he caught Feels for her and that was wrong because he’s dating Amazi-Girl, it still took a whole half a day to decide he still had to go after her and make things right, which led to him getting ensnared by Blaine. I didn’t think of this until now, but when Danny found Amber that day he was with Sal (because Billie told him she was Amazi-Girl), he saw her run off terrified (thinking she was upset because he was getting cozy with another girl, Danny is not smart) and immediately bailed on Sal, his Secret Real Girlfriend, so he could go chase after her and make things right, without any indication that he was somehow torn in twain between two loves. Then when he and Amber broke up he never outright stopped caring about her, he made multiple attempts at staying in her life that she kept pushing back at, and in their last few interactions he seems perfectly comfortable just casually being her friend without throwing himself deep into her problems like he used to. There’s a writing process portion of that, Danny can’t still hover around Amber all day now that they’re broken up, he needed to go forge new relationships and Amber did the same, but I think it showed he’s fine getting over his romantic feelings. It’s not like he pines after Dorothy either, though he seemed to hold a grudge over it a while.
That is again just a read on Danny that can also go in a hundred different directions, for all we know the specific context of his falling out with Ethan changes things, but I don’t think his serial monogamy has ever been challenged in a romantic context and, yeah, it’d be kinda weird if he either broke up with Sal because he was too hot for Ethan or if another scenario had to be put together where Danny’s girlfriend freaks out and starts hating him and breaks up with him so he can run to Ethan.
In a sexual attraction context yes absolutely he’s been challenged, because he was super hot and bothered for Ethan and he didn’t even have the words to express himself so all he could do was bury himself in guilt and shame that his feelings meant he was cheating on Amber. But that’s not really “I’m in love with two people!” and more “I know I like Amber, but I have Pants Feelings for Ethan, this is wrong, I’m a bad person, I’m a failure.”
I’m still not over how ridiculously cruel it was to kill Mike right as he got character development. I mean that as a compliment.
Conventional wisdom is that the proper way to express this is to shake your fist at the sky and yell DAMN YOU WILLIS at the top of your lungs.
Oh, poor baby 🙁
Shit, he is on a mess, so different from the geek last time we saw him. Hope he could get healed…
Danny believed he was going to give Ethan an incredibly romantic love confession and that they would be together forever. The problem is that Danny, like certain other romantic comedy protagonists, didn’t seem to realize the story wasn’t about HIM. Ethan was terrified and worried about his best friend while in no mood for love. Danny let all his resentment, if not outright hatred, for Mike pour out in that moment. Danny didn’t want Ethan to be worried about Mike, he wanted him to be interested in HIM.
Which forever colors Ethans view of Danny that he is a selfish asshole. Unlike Sal who knows him as a good egg.
I think Ethan is trying communicate that he regrets how things ended between them, meaning that maybe he has forgiven Danny a bit.
I think Ethan isn’t even thinking about Danny’s crappy comment anymore, which is progress. As far as Ethan is concerned, it’s more the issue with Mike dying and what was unresolved with THEM. Danny thinks its about Ethan’s anger with him.
Danny just does not get how deep Ethan’s friendship/bond with Mike was.
Having experienced an estranged friend’s death in my early twenties, I know how easy it is to give the relationship extra meaning because of the shock of the sudden death. I think it would be very easy for Ethan to retroactively decide he was in love with Mike and overlook some of his worst behaviors. I was actually sort of glad that Danny hammered that home, even if it was insensitive and rude. I just wish they’d actually stayed and talked things out. I think now will be that chance.
You get a trauma! And you get a trauma! Everybody look under your chairs, you’re each going home with a shiny, brand-new trauma!
Lamest Christmas present ever, I’ll never complain about getting socks and underwear again.
Just one? I fuckin’ wish.
conversation going well
Danny: (falls into a spiral of self-doubt that torpedoes his developing relationship with Sal. Loses hat.)
Not the hat!
Never the hat!
Ah, the joy of two young people with codependent tendencies dealing with real relationship complications…
:-/
I might get some hate for this but I don’t get the DoA universe’s obsession over Mike. Yeah, he had a shit life, but he was also a shit person that did and said shit things, and people can’t use a bad childhood as an excuse for hurting others…and one great sacrifice at the end doesn’t justify or excuse the fact that he hurt people.
That’s like when people completely hand-waved Yondu’s abusive parenting in Guardians of the Galaxy because he died at the end. Sure, he died saving Starlord but he also abused him horribly for years before that.
I don’t feel bad for Danny speaking the truth and Ethan being in love with Mike is coloring his viewpoint and turning Mike into some kind of martyr and Danny into some kind of supervillan and it’s ridiculous.
Mike was a crappy friend and now he’s dead. Move on Ethan. Find a boyfriend who actually *cares* about you.
Just to throw my two cents into the issue of ‘Ethan shouldn’t care so much about Mike, he sucked’… it’s not wrong, obviously, Mike was a dick. But I think people tend to forget that for most of his life, Ethan’s oldest and closest friend is Amber. Someone who has severe problems with anger management, including violent outbursts that have at least once been directed at Ethan himself.
None of that’s to say she’s a bad person or ‘worse than Mike’ – whatever her faults are, she’s always tried to do good and help people, or at least minimize harm. But years of being her friend, trying to prop up her self-esteem and comfort her when she’s hurt, has basically primed Ethan to see the best in the ‘difficult’ people he cares about (his relationship with Joyce also demonstrates this tendency, imo). And Mike was an asshole, but he was a predictable asshole, and at times was even a more consistent companion to Ethan than Amber, who often self-isolated and had difficulty being around Ethan in particular whenever she was on a downward spiral due to their history.
All that’s to say… yeah, Ethan’s glossing over a lot of Mike’s bad behavior in the wake of his big sacrifice. But seeing the best in the people he cares about, even at his own expense, is a well-established character trait at this point. And whether or not Mike ‘deserves’ those feelings, I can’t blame Ethan for wanting to think the best of one of his oldest friends and struggling to come to terms with ‘what could have been’ now that he knows Mike was capable of good and genuine care.
…Dang, this was supposed to be a new comment, not a reply. Sorry ’bout that!
Feels are complicated.
Mike was a huge piece of shit friend to Amber and Ethan, two people who just kind of passively tolerate being abused. Then Mike does one thing that challenges that perception to the both of them and the floodgates are open, the Mike they wanted existed all along, and then he’s comatose before they even know what happened to him and dead not long after. Their last memory of Mike is someone who died to save Amber, and he only died because of Amber’s superhero bullshit.
It’s a messy scenario, and it’s messier because we not only know Mike’s exact thought process (he was convinced he was helping them improve through tough love, except whoops he’s actually constantly abusing them and he draws a direct line between himself and Blaine that genuinely horrifies him enough to try and kill him), it’s a pretty safe bet that had he survived he honestly would have immediately set about being a better person. The Mike the both of them wanted was about to come out, and then his death means they’re left with the Mike who would have had a lifetime of being a better person.
Mike and Ethan also hooked up… and when someone you had sex with dies, that is something that gives you pause (even when the hook-up was long ago… but theirs was relatively recent to his passing). So I’m sure that’s messing with him, too.
By DOA universe, I’m not sure if you mean the characters or something else.
For the characters, Mike was extremely important to Amber and Ethan as just about their only childhood friend apart from each other. He was of some importance to Walky as his roommate. Beyond that, nada. So what do you mean by obsession?
Did you mean the DOA commenters “obsession” over Mike? Because, if so, I can offer an explanation.
Ethan is allowed to not be over the death of one of his long-term friends and to absolutely resent the hell out of Danny for being as insensitive as he was and refusing to back off about it. The problem with what he said wasn’t whether it was truthful or correct, but that it was tactless and insensitive in that exact moment and benefited no one.
Even without his love of Mike, Ethan is still allowed to be sad that he died. He knew Mike for years. You can miss a person you knew was awful in a lot of ways and feel bad their chance to do better was taken away from them and that you never got to tell them stuff and that their last memory of you wasn’t a good one (from your perspective).
Yep. And I think it’s going to be quite some time before Amber and Ethan are capable of processing ‘no, he wasn’t just a bad friend, he was actively and consistently detrimental to our mental health.’ Maybe if he hadn’t died when he did, he’d have done something assholish enough to provoke that response, but they hadn’t hit that breaking point yet and now it’ll be much harder.
“Allowed to be sad”
and “Glossing over abuse because of one dramatic gesture”
Are not the same thing, Sam. ♥
I never said he wasn’t allowed to be sad. I just think it’s ridiculous that almost no one seems to remember how much of an abusive dick Mike was and only remember that one heroic gesture, like it forgives everything else.
He can be as sad as he wants.
You can recognise that someone was both a horrible person a great deal of the time and still also be upset that they died after doing a heroic thing. These are not mutually exclusive. And it makes sense that the characters focused more on how Mike did a big heroic thing: it was surprising and changed their view of Mike. It showed them he wasn’t ALL bad. It conflicts with what they ‘knew’ of him.
It is devastating and has created conflicting feelings for Ethan because if Mike never did any heroic thing at all, then the possibility of him doing better would seem smaller and more of a passing thought. But he died after trying to save Amber from her abusive dad and admitting that Amber and Ethan were his best friends. He revealed the possibility that he could have become a better person. That his personality could have changed if he had lived past that.
His heroic act itself does not undo the abusive actions that Mike did. But it left the unanswerable question of ‘would Mike have become a better person if he lived?’ Which, for someone like Ethan, is something that will circle in his mind. It’s something he has to think about and process that they will never really know for certain.
Understanding where Ethan is coming from and why characters in universe focus on his sacrifice doesn’t mean that I think they should forgive Mike or forget that he did a lot of horrible stuff. Just that moving on isn’t always simple or as straightforward as acknowledging the person was a dick.
It is the fact he did One Big Good Thing that makes it hard to move on as to move on, people have to reconcile that with what they knew of Mike and accept that it is unknowable if he would have been able to change for the better and that he wasn’t simply all bad or all good.
Really really hoping beyond hope that mikes not dead right about now, been reading dumbing of age from like the start and it was the one thing promised to us by willis
Oh, um. Mike’s dead. I get not wanting/liking that, but it’s definitely what happened. There’s been lots of discussion about what Willis actually said about character death, and also that they have the right to change that either way. So. Yeah.
Yup. I think the first got hard confirmation of that came back when Booster was introduced.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-11/01-this-bright-millennium/invited-2/
Can do any more like such as? This is why you don’t post distracted. Let’s try that again:
“I think the first hard confirmation of Mike’s death in-comic was during the lead-up to Booster’s introduction.”
Or Mike’s in witness protection.
Probably dead, but, y’aknow. If you don’t see the bad guy’s corpse, they’ll probably be back someday.
Not the best avatar. One more roll?
“Cool” joyce is funny, but let’s see what else is on tap.
We didn’t see Blaine’s corpse either. Does that mean he’ll return too?
I mean I know it’s a trope but I don’t think that’s how witness protection actually works.
I mean… He could be a vegetable but that is worse.
There’s enough wiggle room with the circumstances of his death that a convoluted scheme where Mike’s death was faked for witness protection purposes wouldn’t be complete nonsense, he could be brought back.
It’s not going to happen, and it’d probably be a bad idea, but it could be done.
I wonder if Ethan took the rest of the past semester off to process his grief.
Or not wonder, but I hope he did.
Looks more like he’s been wallowing in it, poor kid. 🙁
Yeah it’s apparent he’s still grieving. I don’t know how he’ll come to terms with what happened.
To do so will be immensely difficult, because what happened was bizarre.
I mean its only been a few months since the incident, possibly even less time since Mike passed
As someone who has been through it, please don’t call it “Wallowing.” Ever, honestly. Grief is incredibly personal. But this kind of grief? Grief that comes after a violent act? It’s different.
You’re trying to come to grips with a horror-show that is just a never ending spiral of “what ifs.” And it is incredibly hard, especially if you’re a somewhat decent human, to come to terms with the fact that not only is the horror show that humanity has always been real, but that THAT is how you lost them. That someone actively, purposefully, hurt them and STOLE them. It wasn’t old age, illness, or even an accident.
It’s different, and I hope you never have to know what that difference is.
What if I’d said this. What if I’d done that. What if I had texted 6 hours earlier than I did.
Could I have saved them.
And you have to be around people who were related to and/or loved the murderer. They knew them, spent their whole lives together. In my case, they dated my sister when we were younger. They ate Christmas dinner at my Grandmother’s house.
It’s been 7 years, and seeing this particular arc is still a huge gut-punch. It makes me weepy every time.
I’m sorry. 🙁 For what it’s worth, I promise that was just bad phrasing with no ill intent behind it.
I meant it seems like Ethan turned inward, isolating himself instead of leaning on the rest of his social network. (Granted his next closest friend is Amber and their relationship can be… complicated at times…) He’s alone, still treading water in all those what-ifs, and without outside support he’s going to find himself stuck there.
He needs at least one other person to talk with who can help him make peace with his grief and find his new normal.
Wow! Cool transformers fact!
Oh.
Oh boy.
hes handling it well
God this is horrifying also is this the first time we’ve seen a transformers toy in motion in DoA?
Maybe the first time in such detail, but we’ve seen Transformers transforming before.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/productive/
alt text : on your mom, that’s where