I do prefer Joyce’s effort to the VERY LOUD person who went off about pronouns but then started calling Grumpy Cat “him” and, when told that Grumpy Cat was a girl, started screaming, “I MISGENDERED A CAT?!?!?!?!?”
not an exciting board game time
anyway Joyce will learn these terms one of these days I hope… or at least more weasel words?
I find his attitude really off putting. Joyce is a homeschooled ex-fundie-Christian who only JUST learned what non-binary is, she immediately accepted Booster’s pronouns, and she is trying her best so I think he can be a little less uppity about her slipping up. She’s trying really hard and Booster knows it so I think he can be a little more chill
Their perception of the situation was probably colored a little bit by Walky’s introduction, which was…not generous. Given what Joyce had to work with to start with, she’s come really far in a very short time in-universe, and Walky isn’t really inclined to give Joyce credit for much of anything. Unfortunately Booster seems so far to be taking Walky’s statements completely at face value.
That’s fair. I feel like in Walky is trying to show off how woke and excepting he is to Buster (and hey, it’s great that he is) but he’s doing so at Joyce’s expense by acting looking all exasperated at Joyce referring to Buster as “he” when they were first introduced. Give her a break dude, she’s probably never met a non-binary person before and you know it
It probably doesn’t help that the last words from Sarah just reinforced the statement that “Joyce’s rehabilitation is an unpaid labor we all share.” It’s not just Walky’s assessment that Booster is going off.
They’ve only just met Joyce and already two of her friends have admitted that it’s going to be an uphill battle. It’s perfectly fine if they don’t want to take part in all that.
Ah yes, so out of line to be exacerbated that his new friend was misgendered. How rude of Walky to show firmness and support that Booster should only be referred to with they/them pronouns.
Like, honestly? You’re being super fucking invalidating and dismissive. Booster JUST met Joyce and she *immediately* talks about them like they aren’t there and invalidates their gender. Booster probably feels like shit right now because being misgendered sucks.
It’s totally, 100% reasonable for Joyce not to immediately get it but Booster doesn’t have to attend to her feelings and be her fucking teachable moment. Booster would be well within their rights to be a lot fucking ruder than this.
I’m enby. Literally all I care about is that people shouldn’t actively misgender me. Sure, it sucks when people are like “she this” or “she that” but the English language is what it is. It would be *patently absurd* for me to expect someone who didn’t even know about the existence of enby people to just instantly be able to wrench their language into line. I agree that Booster doesn’t need to be a teachable moment but equally they cannot and should not expect a cishet (officially) person to understand their identity 15 minutes after learning enby people exist. If someone is making an effort, you have absolutely NO right to be rude. Say what you like, but enby people are not the norm and if we ever want to be accepted we need to acknowledge that we have to be super accomodating of people who are in the process of learning.
Malaya’s sexuality is, “Dang, I like this vibrator way more than people, and if it could talk to me and want to watch Short Circuit on repeat all weekend, I’d be set.”
Man, that’s really embarrassing. Like a cat’s gonna fuckin’ care what pronouns you call it. I’m not even sure most animals have a concept of gender. I’m not gonna say none of them, because animals are weird and can always surprise you, but I think most don’t.
That person was making a very huge deal about gender, vs. “ok look this is what I prefer and please try to accept who I am and I will do the same for you” before going back to your normal day
We were playing a board game, what was gender even doing in the conversation
Animals definitely have some awareness of gender or sexual reproduction wouldn’t work. But yeah, they’re WAY more casual about it than we are. (see lizards/amphibians/fish changing sex organs, homosexual and even interspecies sexual relationship, and the chimp using the frogs mouth like a fleshlight). … Well ok, the frog may have had some feelings about that last one.
But also, does the BJ cat installation even have gender idrntifying traits or genetalia? Does an inanimate object actually have a gender at all (since objects have no id or ego, can they truly have an identity?) Or does it just have cues that we conventionally rely upon to perceive gender?
Actually, since gender and sex are different things, animals don’t need to have an understanding of gender. All they need to do is have instincts that point a majority of their species at the opposite sex. They don’t need to understand why they’re hitting on, say, this specific cat instead of that other cat over there.
I remember an NB Facebook “friend” reblogging a quasi-meme saying in essence that drawing attention to correcting yourself was more odious to them (and the initial author, presumably) than the initial error.
sometimes people apologize because they’re sorry and they feel bad, and sometimes people are performative and say what they think they should say before making a big deal about how good a person they are.
neither requires acceptance of the apology, but if you don’t acknowledge it, or react like Booster did, then the person who meant it likely won’t hold it against you (because they know they messed up and it’s why they apologized). the attention seekers are the ones who get offended for not getting the reaction they want, so either way i think “just move on and don’t acknowledge it” is a good enough way to deal with the situation.
Perhaps part of the problem is apologizing instead of correcting oneself. I.e. Joyce says “Ack! Sorry!” but does not say “they”.
Like, it’s good not to make a big deal of it, but “he — uh I mean, they” is better than “he — oops sorry”.
There’s an aspect to that that’s repeating over time though. Making a big deal and apologizing every time over and over is different than realizing you screwed up right after learning moments ago. It’s okay for there to be a learning curve, and not everybody learns at the same pace.
It’s complicated, and I don’t love memes about things like that because they oversimplify it.
funny, I don’t think Carla’s a jerkass…anymore than anyone else. See, she strikes me as having fully internalized who she is, with a side order of ‘doesn’t care what you think about it’. IOW, it’s not a ‘fetish’ for her, she’s being herself and that is fucking AWESOME. (the fact ‘herself’ involves dangerous misuse of roller skates in a hallway is beside the point.)
She’s a little bit of one in that she needs to constantly draw attention to herself and make things about her, but honestly that’s fine. She’s hardly my favourite character, but she’s a well enough written one and any quibbles I’d have with her are due to a clash of personalities (she’s a very loud person).
Carla’s kind of a butthole (and I’d argue most of it is performative considering most of her interaction with the cast involves leaping in to help them with something while snarking about it), but I’d also argue that while we’re perfectly capable of still having destructive personality flaws and devouring each other, I dunno if the queer community has the same power structures in place that they could cause as much harm as been done to them, or even the numbers to do it.
Ummm… I feel like this dialogue about Malaya got derailed to Carla somehow? Was it a Rutech device? Maybe we’ll never know. Carla hasn’t had any rants that I can recall about “transcending gender”, unlike the one that Malaya just presented us with. And aside from the subject, this shows us that despite the clarity around Malaya’s gender identity, Malaya hasn’t changed at all. Carla however has (I thought) made it clear that she is woman, ergo the location of her quarters etc.
It’s not a gift for anyone who has to deal with her. Except maybe like the great Faye McIntyre once said, “party hats can be appropriate at a funeral.”
…maybe a sign to reexamine those views? Because as a cis person, Malaya’s views basically read as “I’m better than cis people because I’m not cis”, which is just an asshole view.
I’m not cis because I’m afraid to examine my gender or afraid of nuance or a dumb animal cowering in a little box. I’m cis because I’ve always been comfortable with the gender I was assigned at birth, and any time wondering if I might not be cis pretty quickly circled back to “…nah, ain’t me”.
I mean, you do understand that trans people live in an extremely hostile world, and trans people saying they’re better than cis people is in no way equivalent to the opposite? It’s radical to stand up in the face of constant direct and indirect messages that you’re inferior and say “fuck you, YOU’RE inferior.” That doesn’t mean you’re going to be an arsehole to cis people.
Ie: trans people get to be proud of who they are and cis people can just deal with being a bit uncomfortable sometimes.
I can’t speak for Malaya (obviously), but as someone who uses she/they pronouns, I’m not bothered if someone picks “she” consistently. I used she for so long before I realized that I’m non-binary that the pronouns themselves are immaterial to me.
I’ve heard of some people preferring if you change it up. IIRC, someone who did a guest column for Captain Awkward ages ago liked it better when people used both/all of their pronouns, but I think they were genderfluid.
Another data point from a she/they user: I’m not fussed at what combination thereof people use to refer to me; it’s more that some days I feel more one, some days I feel more the other, and since I don’t wanna keep updating people on which day it is, I figure either one is accurate enough.
No, Malaya’s an asshole, full stop. I’m sure there’s various reasons for them being an asshole, but that doesn’t stop them from being an asshole.
It ain’t like being non-cis makes one a better person. Having more privilege can lean things towards that, and sometimes un-closeting oneself can lead to a great deal of baggage being dropped with helps one relax and stop acting like an asshole…
…but no, Malaya’s always been an asshole. Some people are just insufferable assholes, and they come in all shapes, sizes, ages, genders, sexualities, cultures and creeds.
You know, what I know of as a binder is not something you wear, so unless corsets worn ironically have become part of the style, I feel I am missing social context.
To expand… Typically worn by trans men who have not yet had top surgery, and, as in this case, AFAB non-binary and fluid individuals who are presenting masculine or androgynous.
Huh? What do you mean? People wear underwear, that doesn’t mean other people will see it. Unless there’s another word for “wear” that I don’t know about.
I appreciate that Joyce acknowledges Malaya without making it too weird, and also has realized that, Booster is part of a group of people (not just one person with confusing (to Joyce) pronouns), and even though she doesn’t quite know what that means or is called, she wants to recognize it.
She’s always had a degree of that condescending air of detached superiority. Basically all of her interactions with Sal. She’s definitely never been one of my faves. I’ve just known too many people like that who never failed to make me feel utterly inferior for even speaking in their presence.
But I do wonder if we’re eventually gonna get some backstory that explains why she is like this. It reads a lot like a defense mechanism (or she could just really have an ego I dunno).
(To be clear, I don’t mean the “transcend gender” part, even I have moments when I feel like I want nothing to do with gender and I consider myself cis…not wanting to deal with gender is a very valid feeling….I just mean the way she talks to/treats people completely unrelated to that)
Honestly I hope we get some justification for the way she behaves, because it absolutely drives me nuts, and she’s pretty much the only main cast member I just absolutely can’t stand. Even Mike seemed to try to push people in directions that were good for them with some degree of regularity.
She had that revelation/reveal about her gender but I don’t know if they actually decided to stop insisting that everyone (especially Sal) is being fake about everything all the time.
I feel sorry for Booster about being the “lucky” person who gets to be the focus of Joyce’s growing pains on this particular issue, but I will be happy if their being annoyed by her is the sacrifice needed for her to have an easier time embracing it when she finds out that she has a sister.
Yeah, a few months ago he said he went by he/they pronouns on Twitter. Someone messaged him on Tumblr to offer tentative congratulations on coming out and he said he had some imposter syndrome about the whole thing but he was worried about his then-recent surgery and wanted to tell people on the extremely off chance something went wrong, so he’d changed the pronouns on his twitter before he went in.
They’re all facets of Willis’s personality, in one way or another. Joyce got the fundamentalism and food neuroses, Ethan got the Transformers obsession… DoA is like Inside Out if it was a webcomic.
See, now this is why I don’t believe Mike is really dead. Those of us with an inner Mike may learn to control him, but if he’s part of us, he’s not going away.
Cor blimey, are there *any* webcomic writers who are cisgender and heterosexual? Every one I can think of is in the QUILTBAG somewhere. I thought Willis was an exception, but nope, apparently he’s in the majority after all. 🙂
I wrote “cisgender and heterosexual” because I didn’t want to write “cishet”, which often has a hostile tone. But I’m not that keen on what I did write either, and I can’t edit.
Let’s go with “… who are cis and straight?” That sounds better.
Off the topnof my head?
Scott Kurtz.. (pvp)
Howard Taylor (schlockmercenary)
Gabe and Tycho (penny arcade)
Phil Foglio (girl genius)
Doc (thewhiteboard)
Aerie (Punch and Pie/Queen of Wands)
Sohmer (LICD/LFG)
Randy Milholland (something positive)
Danielle Corsetto (stuckat32, girls with slingshots)
I’m not 100% on those because I simply don’t recall it ever being an out discussion. But several are married in cis relationships.
But more importanly, I must apologize, because people’s apparent or actual identity and orientation are irrelevant to their worth as a human being and artist. A better answer should have been, “what does it matter what the author’s identity or orientation is?”
Since art is about what is invoked in the observer (often despite what the artist is tryimg to achieve), the artists id only matters if they want it to influence how their work is perceived.
Well, we like people to talk about things they actually have a clue about, and being part of a group they write about makes it more likely they have a clue.
That said, yes, Joyce made a mistake here, it takes a lot of training to overwrite the intuitive gendering one is used to. She just started five minutes ago so give her a break. Or is anyone here perfect?
Well, I assume the *writers* think it matters what their identity or orientation is, or they wouldn’t mention it, and then no-one would know. I’m certainly not going to tell any writer who does mention that they should have kept it to themselves.
I’m not exactly sure about how david identifies, but he does use he/they pronouns, according to their twitter bio, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s some form of non-binary.
My thoughts were more on the Jacq side that the Joyce side; I’d rather see Joyce bumble through this with a new character that I don’t particularly care about one way or another yet because I don’t want Jacqueline to be the one making wincing faces at Joyce stumbling around her pronouns with the grace of a bull in a china shop.
I just kinda really want to see Jacq get lucky enough to have an unrealistically smooth fantasy coming out with one member of her family, considering how very much the opposite she must have been expecting very recently.
*wince* No, my googling my failing at spell her name right + Dumbing of Age to try to get the right spelling managed to have me grab a different wrong spelling instead! I should have just gone back a page to the character links on the main page, I’m just too used to googling when I’m not sure of my spelling.
Also, it would have been cold in November so it probably wouldn’t have struck Joyce as odd that sweaters/coats were hiding Malayla’s chest. If she’s still trying to be first to the showers so she can take one before they get gross, she might have gone the whole month without seeing Malayla in something lightweight enough to reveal that they were binding.
(There’s a short story by the Yarn Harlot about how she’s always caught off guard by someone being very pregnant come Spring because the heavy coats hid their belly. One year she decides to just make something ahead of time and the woman who turned out to be pregnant that year was having twins.)
Malaya reminds me of a lot of shitty toxic ex-friends and it’s part of why I have a hard time enjoying her. It’s that air of, whether or not she fully believes it, ‘no matter what, I’m better than you.’
The friends (especially one in particular) were people who came off as really cool, and chill, and while not super popular (and definitely not popular in the high school movie way), were fun to be around and just had something about them that made you want them to like you.
But once you were their ‘friend,’ or even just spent time in their vicinity more than a couple times, and let your guard down a bit, they started being shitty to you. You like something? Oh, that’s cute that you’re still into something lame like that, but I’m into superior things. Oh, you like the same thing as me? Well you like it wrong, in a way that makes you gross.
And I know most of that isn’t how Malaya is, but it’s the feeling she gives off, to me, when she talks to Sal and stuff. And that sucks because I am interested in her character arc.
I mean, she did spend almost every interaction with Sal insisting she was being fake about who she is. “You’re wrong for liking the thing” and “You’re wrong because you’re only pretending to like the thing” are in the same neighborhood of “you’re wrong no matter what” so this makes sense to me.
Oh Joyce….Well…at least she’s trying.
Also as an artist who loves plaid, that alt-text is a pain I feel all too well. It looks so pretty when it’s done but wow it’s a pain to draw!
I just love Malaya So Much ^_^
So adorable
Glad she seems to be promoted to main cast! Hopefully that means we’ll see more of her in the coming years =) Weee!
I never really saw them as insecure (until we found out why she had such a problem with “fake” people), just really convinced of their own greatness and without time for people who put up disingenuous fronts like Sal arguably did.
She also pulled that on Lucy though, but the universe likes to pick on Lucy. She’s like a girl Danny.
The bad news, Malaya, is that Joyce doesn’t like or pay attention to you enough to notice such things. A hard blow, I know. That’s just the way it is though!
Meanwhile, I think that Joyce’s apology is about #763 on their mental tally chart and that they lost the will to respond about a hundred sincere apologies ago.
You know, I hate hating a character that’s supposed to be sympathetic, especially when it’s in an ensemble cast where they’re all crashing into one another; it makes me feel like a trash person. But…god, I just cannot stand Malaya. I’ve never been able to stand Malaya, even back in their Shortpacked days. In fact, their introduction and ascension to major character status was kinda where Shortpacked dove off a cliff for me.
When has Malaya ever been supposed to be sympathetic? I’ve never been able to sympathise with her for more than one panel at a time, because she instantly undermines it, every time. She is my least favourite member of the cast.
I mean, Malaya’s initial version back over at Shortpacked was being a female Mike in a lot of regards. Them being non-binary really hasn’t changed that, in the end, they’re a self-absorbed, arrogant asshole. Ain’t like being non-cis is some magic status that makes one immune to being an ass.
I don’t think DoA Malaya has ever meant to be a particularly sympathetic person beyond being owed basic decency like “Sal and Amber shouldn’t toss her around like a ragdoll because they feel like it.”
I just think they’re really convinced of their own greatness instead of having actual narcissistic viewpoints.
“convinced of their own greatness instead of having actual narcissistic viewpoints.”…
What is the actual (or even functional) difference? Redeemability? If a person goes about looking for excuses to be a jerk, they are one. Unless they’re actively and honestly trying to change that about themselves, they aren’t worth the time of day.
Think of it like having oodles of self confidence.
Heck, Malaya doesn’t really go out of their way to be a jerk. They have it out for Sal because Sal indulges in being a Cool Motorcycle Rebel and also tried to beat them up.
Being self confident is no reason to lack empathy. Lots of very self-confident people have high degrees of empathy and don’t go around actively tearing others down. They may mis-state the ease of something, or accidentally injur someones feelings, but they’re still able to care about that and apologize.
Malaya and her ilk are unsympathetic to the plight of those around them. Honestly she seems like a borderline or, psycho- or socio-path a lot of the time. Her new gender id exploration colours that, but how she treats people is still remorseless, so there is still a lack of sympathy for others.
Malaya is pretty obnoxious all around – with exception of Marcie. And without the redeeming traits we see in the other obnoxious characters (except Mike, for a long time).
I feel like with Mike dead she absorbed all of his Holden Caulfield Impersonation powers and can now designate people as “phonies” merely by eye contact, though she mostly assigns this debuff to Sal, because of Course
Faz. He’s just a poor dumb kid who wants to be better. I’ve known people like Malaya and they rarely get less obnoxious without some serious introspection. As for Mike, he’s Problematic At All Costs and now he’s dead.
I’d also pick Faz for the same reason, though I’m tempted to leave all three of them in the room because I don’t think we’ve ever seen any of them interact with each other.
Faz in this verse is a child so he’s the obvious pick. Mike is a corpse Malaya will be stuck with but at least they’re always going to be better than a corpse and can make fun of him for it.
I’m used to seeing plaid slapped on as a kind of flat fill, just the whole area covered in perpendicular lines regardless of the underlying shape. Happens a lot in manga, where I think it’s computer-generated nowadays, but I remember a painstakingly hand-drawn version in Love and Rockets. The odd thing is, it kind of works. So this is above and beyond the call of duty!
Hrmm. I’m not sure how you navigate this situation without it being awkward. Misgendering someone is a conversational pitfall that’s easy to fall into. I’ve misgendereda friend more than a few times before it felt natural and they never called me on it but that was from a perspective of being friends for years and not strangers, which must be more frustrating. I think it’s a no win situation. Unfortunately both Booster and Joyce are upset at the end of the day.
Also how do you tell which pronouns someond prefers if you’re first meeting them. How did Walky know? I assume Booster told him off panel unless he just defaults to they/them when first meeting someone which is an option I try to implement. In my experience as a cis male I wouldn’t be insulted by a they or them.
Personally I think it would be easier to have giving your pronouns be an accepted part of greeting strangers instead of playing a social guessing game. “Hello I’m Sirk, He/him, they/them ect,” And everyone tries their best. At the dndc of the day getting accidentally misgendered in polite conversation where everyone is sincerely trying isn’t the end of the world and learning to use they/them isn’t rocket science unless you have a language or speech impairment. We can get there.
I have such a hard time changing pronouns in my brain. If there’s some reliable way to do that, I don’t know what it is. I end up (very unintentionally) misgendering a lot, to the point where I feel I should just avoid trans* people entirely rather than subject them to me. But it’s also wrong to avoid someone just because they’re trans. Ethical dilemma.
Woe is me, poor cis person. (/sarcasm) I’m not asking for sympathy or anything. It’s a me-problem, one of the ways my brain is broken, and it shouldn’t be about me.
No-one has ever come up with any reliable and non-harmful means to alter thinking patters other than repetition and conscious direction of what you want to say or think.
For a while about half of my friends were lesbians. Sheer repetition got me to a stage where I’d keep accidentally referring to a woman’s boyfriend as her “girlfriend.”
I would very much like to know if anyone has a tip of this nature as well. I’m NB myself, but the pressures of enculturation often overtake my mind, and, to my embarrassment, it’s not totally uncommon for me to misgender friends and family whose gender identities I’ve damn well known for many years. I try not to make a big, performative deal about it when it happens other than a “Shit, sorry. Damn enculturation,” but it’s still annoying. I’m not a fan of it happening to me, so you think I’d be able to get my brain to cooperate when it comes to other people. -.-
Seriously, if you’ve got an idea, help an enby out, will you?
I BELIEVE that it’s not a lack of caring on my part. I certainly hope that it isn’t. But sometimes conversations happen quickly, and the wrong pronoun shoots out before I can code switch.
The best advice I have? Try to get it right, but when you get it wrong, treat it more like you called a guy named “Dave” “Steve” instead: Correct yourself, say sorry, but don’t make a deal out of it. Folks want to be respected but also not feel like they’re a burden, or that they’re being patronized or treated like some sort of Project Of Self Improvement.
But yeah, work on getting it right, because there’s only so long that it remains okay.
I wonder if I could get away with adopting Malaya’s pronouns…I identify exactly with them (she/they/whatever) but also don’t want to seem like a jerk in my sig line.
That’s not jerky at all. Whatever your pronouns are it’s OK to have them in your signature/bio/whatever. Maybe it just seems jerky to you because Malaya is saying it and everything they ever say or do is jerky
I’m going to armchair hypothesize and I do not intend to offend. It’s not your job to be my interest focus. I do find what you said fascinating though. Maybe your particular situation is similar to Prosopagnosia(face blindness). (the following theory is case specific and not intended as identfying a general case “vector” or anything else as vulgar). But if a person is truly gender blind, then would they then not have a gender identity? Or are the mechanisms completely unrelated so that a gender blind person could still be heavily cis-oriented? (Like Hellen Keller, who had terrible upsets as a child because she was so frustrated understanding that there was a world going on around her, but something was preventing her from seeing/hearing it.) Could a person be heavily oriented to be turned on by the idea of particular genitalia, but be unable to recognize them?
One: Gender is not related to sexual orientation/attraction or biology; it’s internal. (Hell, the reason it took me so long to realize ‘oh this is probably at least semi-gendered’ is because I experience basically no issue with being socially treated as my assigned gender at birth; it’s all physical dysphoria and a touch of ‘I’m fine with some gendered terms but others feel odd applied to me’ that I previously associated with being autistic.)
Two: Disabled people can very much have strong sense of their own gender, trans or otherwise, across a wide spectrum of disabilities. Again, it’s internal. Sexual orientation as well.
Three: For a lot of people, being ‘attracted to men’ is distinct from ‘attracted to penis’ or women/vaginas. Not all, but lots of queer people are into specific presentation over a lot of physical characteristics. (There’s a difference between a butch lesbian’s presentation and a masculine straight man’s, even if said lesbian is trans. A femme queer woman and a feminine straight woman, as well.)
Those are all very solid points, but I think they (except the last one) miss what I was exploring with gender-blind. (it was used For lack of a better term, because I know gender blind has a meaning in our social context). But what Ganaroth was describing (or what I was curious if they were describing) was not the social stance of being gender blind, but rather a difficulty or near-inability to identify gender. So as a thought exercise I tried comparing that with prosopagnosia (face-blindness) where in severe cases a person cannot identify someone by facial features. If a person was actually neurologically gender blind, they would not be able to identify gender at all. I was in no way implying that any other disability would be unaware of their own gender (since there’s nothing to do with gender in most(all) other disabilities). I don’t know that neuro-gender blind is even a thing. I’m also not saying that being any degree of neuro-gender blind is why anyone elses orientation (LGBTQ2*) would be what they are, not even Ganaroth’s as I’ve made a gross exageration of their described experience.
But (for example), since you (conventionally) can’t explain a colour to a person blind since birth. Or as with neglected children who grow up without language, who learn to speak but are stuck unable to comprehend syntax.
Would a person who was truly unable to see or comprehend gender, have one of their own?
Could such a person be attracted to a gender identity? (maybe they could but not know why)?
Has Galasso ever shown attraction of any kind, though? I always got a feeling that he viewed sex (or whatever he thought he was doing to create Conquest, because . . . just read Shortpacked!) solely as a means to an heir, and was thusly able to power through.
Hey, she’s trying at least. I’ve got a very close friend that I lost contact with for a while and reconnected with this year and learned they’re NB (previously she/her), and I still am trying hard after nearly six months to refer to them as they/them instead of she/her. It just takes practice. (Ignore that previous one. I used the wrong email)
Lets be fair to her, its something rather new to get used to…you will mess it up several times if you are not used to it. I would say to any tras or gender fluid fried/aquientince give me a little time this is new to me there is no bad intention behind it just correct me if i mess up
World of difference between people like Joyce who at least acknowledge their upbringing and try to correct, and people who either don’t try or actively oppose respecting someone’s gender.
more like various strange words & phrases & initials & stuff like “binder” being used as if it had some meaning other than a place to collect papers in. To retreat to my own generation’s terminology, not all this comic’s readers are necessarily “hip to the jive”.
I mean. You could just google the word “binder,” which immediately turns up results that are directly relevant to this comic. Like literally, the very top results (and I checked on a second browser I never use to make sure my search history wasn’t influencing it).
When I was in a high school honors English class, our teacher reprimanded the class because none of us bothered to look up the word ” tintinnabulation” used in a poem. If “binder” doesn’t come up with enlightening result, you can always search “wearing a binder” or “to wear a binder”.
You’re doing well Joyce. I mean you could be doing better, but Booster looks more put upon than aggreived.
Also, to reiterate. Walky take notes! This is how you introduce people. Name, what to call them, interests others might share, publically known but interesting fact.
And, most importantly, introductions go two ways!
Learn to forgive him. For he/they are god and he/they giveth and taketh away, as they want. We All (That is I) wanted to see the get-up for each character, their choices, wants, creativity, resourcefulness, mods, body-mods, etsy-purchases, etc. As they don’t take Our comments personally, we shouldn’t take the time skip as an affront directly right into mah guts/liver/spleen, stabbity-stabbity, with a Sword of Pain +3!!!!!!!
I still do not like Malaya. She reminds me of a few people I grew up with – people who had a need to be acknowledged as somehow better than everyone else. If it was pointed out that someone was good at something, they would point out that they were better at that. As in, someone got a degree in something, but they were better at it naturally than that person who studied. If you did better than one of them at something, it was only because they didn’t put in any effort or they let you win. One of them had such a painful ego that everything was about her – literally, if someone liked you, it was because you were her friend and if someone hated you or was causing problems for you, it was because they were trying to make her mad but couldn’t go after her directly. Her ego was exhausting. With all three of these people if someone liked anyone they knew more of them – they were awful people and needed to be shunned. They would treat the person much like Malaya treats Sal. She is marginally less irritating because she is fictional. That said, for a second there, she made me smile with the she/they/whatever thing.
I didn’t realize it until far too late, but this is one of my exes, and we’ve been in court since we split because of it (kid). Even for a long time after I thought a lot that maybe it was me. Thankfully my older and newer exes have assured me that although we had our own problems, the issues with my kids mom are not me. (other than being suckered in the first time).
A good friend gave me solid advice, and that is the best way to deal with these people is to simply not acknowledge them. Don’t let them be a part of your life. They’ll hate you for it, but it keeps them at a distance. Hopefully then there isn’t something else that forces you to be in proximity.
^This 100%. Even in highschool english (25 years ago) it irked me that the gender-id of the unknown was “he/him”. It just doesn’t make logical sense to assign an id to an unknown. And english lacks (or lacked) an appropriate singular pronoun. But somehow the neutral plural set seemed less wrong than the singular defined male for an unknown person.
Also a fan! I’ve heard it pointed out that the singular “they” has actually been used for at least 500 years. There was a phase when it was considered ungrammatical by the same kinds of people who think you have to say “AN historian.” We’re growing out of that stupidity.
I honestly think the Shortpacked! version of her is a better person and that’s something I NEVER expected to say about ANY character because almost everyone in Shortpacked! is some variety of garbage
Malaya in Shorpacked had more time as a central focus character, which lent her more time to be portrayed in a nuanced manner. She never stopped being an asshole, but it was more like a Mike-style asshole, where the character isn’t just an asshole.
Thus far, Malaya in DoA has almost always been a secondary character, where their character is primarily seen in context with far more central characters. Thus, we don’t often get past their surface elements, and Malaya’s surface elements are currently “non-binary (or indifferent)” and “asshole”, and the latter is shouted out with a megaphone >_>.
Guess I’m responding to a whole bunch of people at once with this one: I don’t really see what DoA Malaya has done wrong.
They’re a jerk to Sal, who was openly disdainful of their every waking moment from the word go, and they still tried to repair things between her and Marcie because the latter clearly missed being with her. I guess Lucy as well? Pretty much of all that was tinged with Malaya being exaggerated, outrageously cartoony about it.
And look at the eyes, the eyebrow, the bold words. That is clearly Tsundere vulnerability. I think she’s actually wonderful but doesn’t want to show it.
Yeah, same deal for Mike too, but I also can’t really fault people too much for taking it at face value, cause they still are acting like that in universe. I think another interesting example is when Robin was living in Leslie’s apartment, I just thought “haha Robin is goofy and wacky”, but later I saw people point out that she literally broke into someone’s home and refused to leave for several days, which is pretty bad to say the least, and I realized oh shit she really did do that and it wasn’t all just funny haha moments. So there’s cases where we should still look beyond the character’s actions being a punchline.
Malaya’s obnoxious, but hasn’t been nearly as damaging as Mike was. OTOH, she also hasn’t yet gotten as much humanizing as he was starting to get – nor of course a redemptive death.
There’s also a difference between enjoying a character for what they are – we can certainly love a good villain, after all – and actually defending the character as a good person within the fiction. Which we certainly saw with Mike and have seen a bit of with Malaya.
I’m sure this really sucks for Booster right now, but I’m proud of Joyce. She doesn’t understand the issue but she immediately acknowledged this and is doing her best to be respectful. This is a big change from the Joyce who was like, ” Yeah Ethan, let’s date and we can work on making you straight.”
I’m not saying that Booster should have to suffer while Joyce learn nor that their response of noticable exasperation is incorrect. But I’m nonbinary and I remember when I first learned about the identity, I had to have a thinking shift and had to practice with using they/them for particular people rather than just groups or the unknown person.
Compared to my ‘friends’ who refused to acknowledge my identity or pronouns when I came out, Joyce is a fucking Olympic champ here. And my friends were all educated grown adults and otherwise preLGBT liberal people, not recent cult escapees. I really hope she and Booster can be friends, other than the the bumpy introduction they seem to be having a nice time.
I remain firmly on team pro-Joyce. She’s not perfect but I’ve seen few people try so hard to be better.
Also can someone like her be my friend? Its okay if she accidentally calls me ‘she’ and blunders further by over-reacting with her apology, its still so much better than I’ve ever had.
Best pronoun-changing tip I’ve ever gotten? Practice. At home, by yourself, practice using someone’s new pronouns, out loud. Literally just start talking about someone. If you can’t think of anything to say, just…make up sentences using their name and pronouns, to get into the habit of using them correctly. “Alice is their name. They go by Alice. I should call Alice and ask them something. I like the way Alice styles their hair. I should ask Alice if they have a good cookie recipe. Where does Alice buy their dog food? Alice is really good at their job. I’ll talk to Alice tomorrow and see if they’re free for dinner this week.” If you try to say a lot of nice things, it builds two habits at once, and all of a sudden you’re better at both using Alice’s pronouns and at thinking of and giving compliments, so everyone gets to have a good day.
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that “ok yeah, you’re TRYING” face
I do prefer Joyce’s effort to the VERY LOUD person who went off about pronouns but then started calling Grumpy Cat “him” and, when told that Grumpy Cat was a girl, started screaming, “I MISGENDERED A CAT?!?!?!?!?”
not an exciting board game time
anyway Joyce will learn these terms one of these days I hope… or at least more weasel words?
Joyce: How… does that work? Like a Trapper-Keeper? Is it a Lisa Frank?
A Duo-Tang.
It’s got Hatsune Miku on it.
Ok if I wore a binder I would ABSOLUTELY want one covered in early 90s neon rainbow kittens.
I just imagined Mitt Romney bragging that he has “binders full of enbies!” — and now you too must suffer this confusing vision.
dang, after Dolt 45, I almost feel nostalgic for Mitt
but then I remember we don’t have Toys R Us anymore due to him, so Mitt can eat shit
It took me forever to figure out what this was about, then it clicked .’oh, binders also means something else’…
(I feel the need, after confusion while I was laughing at myself elsewhere, to point out that ‘this’ is Ana’s joke, not the line in the comic itself.)
Yes, Joyce is certainly trying.
What you did there, I see it.
Malaya also transcends transcendence.
And the movie Transcendence. It wasn’t bad, but…eh. xD
I find his attitude really off putting. Joyce is a homeschooled ex-fundie-Christian who only JUST learned what non-binary is, she immediately accepted Booster’s pronouns, and she is trying her best so I think he can be a little less uppity about her slipping up. She’s trying really hard and Booster knows it so I think he can be a little more chill
Ah fuck, *they* can be more chill. Didn’t mean to totally undermine my comment by misgendering them
Their perception of the situation was probably colored a little bit by Walky’s introduction, which was…not generous. Given what Joyce had to work with to start with, she’s come really far in a very short time in-universe, and Walky isn’t really inclined to give Joyce credit for much of anything. Unfortunately Booster seems so far to be taking Walky’s statements completely at face value.
That’s fair. I feel like in Walky is trying to show off how woke and excepting he is to Buster (and hey, it’s great that he is) but he’s doing so at Joyce’s expense by acting looking all exasperated at Joyce referring to Buster as “he” when they were first introduced. Give her a break dude, she’s probably never met a non-binary person before and you know it
It probably doesn’t help that the last words from Sarah just reinforced the statement that “Joyce’s rehabilitation is an unpaid labor we all share.” It’s not just Walky’s assessment that Booster is going off.
They’ve only just met Joyce and already two of her friends have admitted that it’s going to be an uphill battle. It’s perfectly fine if they don’t want to take part in all that.
Ah yes, so out of line to be exacerbated that his new friend was misgendered. How rude of Walky to show firmness and support that Booster should only be referred to with they/them pronouns.
Like, honestly? You’re being super fucking invalidating and dismissive. Booster JUST met Joyce and she *immediately* talks about them like they aren’t there and invalidates their gender. Booster probably feels like shit right now because being misgendered sucks.
It’s totally, 100% reasonable for Joyce not to immediately get it but Booster doesn’t have to attend to her feelings and be her fucking teachable moment. Booster would be well within their rights to be a lot fucking ruder than this.
I’m enby. Literally all I care about is that people shouldn’t actively misgender me. Sure, it sucks when people are like “she this” or “she that” but the English language is what it is. It would be *patently absurd* for me to expect someone who didn’t even know about the existence of enby people to just instantly be able to wrench their language into line. I agree that Booster doesn’t need to be a teachable moment but equally they cannot and should not expect a cishet (officially) person to understand their identity 15 minutes after learning enby people exist. If someone is making an effort, you have absolutely NO right to be rude. Say what you like, but enby people are not the norm and if we ever want to be accepted we need to acknowledge that we have to be super accomodating of people who are in the process of learning.
Probably harder to give someone a break for this reaction when you get it all the damn time.
Also, Booster response to this is an eyeroll and a quiet “hmmm.” Pretty restrained, really.
Did no one else think that Joyce just delivered a wicked slam-retort to Malaya (intended or not)?
Kind of a, yes, you’re so much better than us that it’s not even worth engaging with you as a human being
No I’m 100% with you, that was pretty sweet.
Probably sailed right over Malaya’s head though.
I wonder if this is why Shortpacked!Malaya is into Ultra Car/”wants to fuck whatever [Ultra Car’s self-identity] is”
Malaya’s sexuality is, “Dang, I like this vibrator way more than people, and if it could talk to me and want to watch Short Circuit on repeat all weekend, I’d be set.”
Man, that’s really embarrassing. Like a cat’s gonna fuckin’ care what pronouns you call it. I’m not even sure most animals have a concept of gender. I’m not gonna say none of them, because animals are weird and can always surprise you, but I think most don’t.
Wait I think I misunderstood what you meant here oh well
That person was making a very huge deal about gender, vs. “ok look this is what I prefer and please try to accept who I am and I will do the same for you” before going back to your normal day
We were playing a board game, what was gender even doing in the conversation
Animals definitely have some awareness of gender or sexual reproduction wouldn’t work. But yeah, they’re WAY more casual about it than we are. (see lizards/amphibians/fish changing sex organs, homosexual and even interspecies sexual relationship, and the chimp using the frogs mouth like a fleshlight). … Well ok, the frog may have had some feelings about that last one.
But also, does the BJ cat installation even have gender idrntifying traits or genetalia? Does an inanimate object actually have a gender at all (since objects have no id or ego, can they truly have an identity?) Or does it just have cues that we conventionally rely upon to perceive gender?
Actually, since gender and sex are different things, animals don’t need to have an understanding of gender. All they need to do is have instincts that point a majority of their species at the opposite sex. They don’t need to understand why they’re hitting on, say, this specific cat instead of that other cat over there.
To be fair, that argument applies equally well to us. Being animals and all. And it’s not wrong.
A girl? Wait, what?
One silhouette to go. Billie? Booster’s twin?
Wasn’t the Masturbate Indoors slipshine about a character that would be joining the cast???
That character was created to avoid depicting any cast members in quarantine!
I remain ashamed at how long it took me to realize that ad was by Willis.
That being said, I choose to believe that that character has already appeared in the main strip: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/drafty/
This whole time I thought that was an ad for an entirely different comic
You say Booster Billingsworth has a twin?
Whoever it is…it doesn’t look like Marcie?
I thought it was marcy too! But billie makes more sense hmm…
i’ve been assuming Billie just got a rad haircut
Same. Really looks like Billie in every way except the hair. Looking forward to the makeover.
That’s also my assumption.
Definitely not Ethan, not tall enough. I’m assuming a female character, but I can’t be sure.
I’m going with Leslie
Is Marcy losing cast status?
She died over the break.
She never had it. Secondary cast at best. We might actually see her more, now that Malaya’s main cast status.
Blowjob cat?
Joyce is the kind of friend where you take deep breaths and count to 10 a lot.
So’s Malaya. At best.
Joyce means well, that counts for a lot.
Malaya means exactly what she says.
I think what counts for even more is that she’s trying to be better.
Malaya isn’t any kind of ‘friend’ :p
Maybe a datemate, tho.
Now that Sal’s Malaya’s roommate, she’ll be doing so much counting that she’ll never have to worry about her math skills again.
Counting, yes. But will she get any higher than ten?
She’ll need to get a lot higher to deal with Malaya.
I remember an NB Facebook “friend” reblogging a quasi-meme saying in essence that drawing attention to correcting yourself was more odious to them (and the initial author, presumably) than the initial error.
sometimes people apologize because they’re sorry and they feel bad, and sometimes people are performative and say what they think they should say before making a big deal about how good a person they are.
neither requires acceptance of the apology, but if you don’t acknowledge it, or react like Booster did, then the person who meant it likely won’t hold it against you (because they know they messed up and it’s why they apologized). the attention seekers are the ones who get offended for not getting the reaction they want, so either way i think “just move on and don’t acknowledge it” is a good enough way to deal with the situation.
Indeed. I don’t expect a big magnanimous acceptance of my apology in that circumstance, because it’s not about me.
What I’m indicating when I apologise is that yes, I did just notice I used the wrong pronoun, and I know I need to correct myself. For example:
“Are all of you coming to the movie tonight?”
“Tom and I are, but Sam said she – oops, sorry – said they were busy.”
Nobody needs to make a big deal out of it, either me for making the mistake or Sam in acknowledging that I apologised.
Perhaps part of the problem is apologizing instead of correcting oneself. I.e. Joyce says “Ack! Sorry!” but does not say “they”.
Like, it’s good not to make a big deal of it, but “he — uh I mean, they” is better than “he — oops sorry”.
There’s an aspect to that that’s repeating over time though. Making a big deal and apologizing every time over and over is different than realizing you screwed up right after learning moments ago. It’s okay for there to be a learning curve, and not everybody learns at the same pace.
It’s complicated, and I don’t love memes about things like that because they oversimplify it.
Frankly, I’m surprised Joyce understood Walky’s brief explanation well enough to recognize her error.
You know, I’ve been waiting for a perspective like Malaya’s to show up IRL and I’ve never heard anyone have the guts to say it.
I feel weird being grateful to Malaya for something.
i know at least a half dozen nb people and that’s the way pretty much all of them speak about gender so
take that for what it’s worth
Do you mean the “transcend gender” part or the “you’re all animals” part?
Not true at all. Some of us are vegetables or minerals.
I am an eldritch abomination reading science fiction and drinking hot chocolate.
Abysswatcher1993, I suspected as much.
And am pleased to make your acquaintance.
Have you read “Into the Abyss”?
Are there any modern major-generals in the crowd?
I am the very model of one.
I know the kings of England and I quote the fights historical, but there are novices in nunneries who know more of tactics than I do.
Mostly the “transcender gender” part.
I guess Carla does it in a way that’s ‘I don’t have to be a perfect princess just because I’m trans’ way.
Carla is proof trans people can be as jerkass as cisgender people. I have been on social media for too long to know LGBT people aren’t uncorruptible.
funny, I don’t think Carla’s a jerkass…anymore than anyone else. See, she strikes me as having fully internalized who she is, with a side order of ‘doesn’t care what you think about it’. IOW, it’s not a ‘fetish’ for her, she’s being herself and that is fucking AWESOME. (the fact ‘herself’ involves dangerous misuse of roller skates in a hallway is beside the point.)
She’s a little bit of one in that she needs to constantly draw attention to herself and make things about her, but honestly that’s fine. She’s hardly my favourite character, but she’s a well enough written one and any quibbles I’d have with her are due to a clash of personalities (she’s a very loud person).
Carla’s kind of a butthole (and I’d argue most of it is performative considering most of her interaction with the cast involves leaping in to help them with something while snarking about it), but I’d also argue that while we’re perfectly capable of still having destructive personality flaws and devouring each other, I dunno if the queer community has the same power structures in place that they could cause as much harm as been done to them, or even the numbers to do it.
Ummm… I feel like this dialogue about Malaya got derailed to Carla somehow? Was it a Rutech device? Maybe we’ll never know. Carla hasn’t had any rants that I can recall about “transcending gender”, unlike the one that Malaya just presented us with. And aside from the subject, this shows us that despite the clarity around Malaya’s gender identity, Malaya hasn’t changed at all. Carla however has (I thought) made it clear that she is woman, ergo the location of her quarters etc.
Somehow I feel that Carla would be okay with us switching the conversation to her. Not that I agree with the opinions expressed.
Malaya sharing my feelings towards gender really upsets me.
Even when I agree with Malaya, I feel like I don’t agree with Malaya.
That’s nothing. Malaya can agree without being agreeable.
It’s a gift.
It’s not a gift for anyone who has to deal with her. Except maybe like the great Faye McIntyre once said, “party hats can be appropriate at a funeral.”
What about blowout noisemakers?
You can agree with people you hate for a little moment, and then punch them for everything else they are wrong about.
I like you. Can I subscribe to your newsletter?
HEARTBREAKING: worst person you know just made a great point
I am a loyal DOA reader and I deserve better than this.
I’ve always felt we get the Willis we deserve.
Even if we’re not worthy.
Maybe, especially if we’re not worthy.
butts, you have discovered the Essence of Malaya, I think
Now put it back before someone gets hurt.
Literally my first thought too
…maybe a sign to reexamine those views? Because as a cis person, Malaya’s views basically read as “I’m better than cis people because I’m not cis”, which is just an asshole view.
I’m not cis because I’m afraid to examine my gender or afraid of nuance or a dumb animal cowering in a little box. I’m cis because I’ve always been comfortable with the gender I was assigned at birth, and any time wondering if I might not be cis pretty quickly circled back to “…nah, ain’t me”.
Malaya’s views read to me as: “I can’t figure this out, but I’m not admitting that so I’m going to pretend it makes me better than others.”
nope trans ppl are definitely more rad than cis people that’s just facts
*skateboards away*
As a cis person….chill
I mean, you do understand that trans people live in an extremely hostile world, and trans people saying they’re better than cis people is in no way equivalent to the opposite? It’s radical to stand up in the face of constant direct and indirect messages that you’re inferior and say “fuck you, YOU’RE inferior.” That doesn’t mean you’re going to be an arsehole to cis people.
Ie: trans people get to be proud of who they are and cis people can just deal with being a bit uncomfortable sometimes.
You know, I still don’t like Malaya… there was going to be a “but” to that but I forgot what it was going to be.
Feel free to tell me what I should have said.
“but they had me in the first half, not gonna lie.”
Malaya was so close to gaining some points from me.
Even is Malaya can be relatable she is still the kind of person you would bastitch slap for being rude.
They.
Whatever.
She/they/whatever, by her/their own words
Kind of an out there question, but if someone uses she/they pronouns, are they okay if you only ever use one of them to refer to them?
As in, would Malaya be okay if someone just uses ‘she’ for her every time, never using ‘they’ but not objecting to it if someone else uses it for her?
I can’t speak for Malaya (obviously), but as someone who uses she/they pronouns, I’m not bothered if someone picks “she” consistently. I used she for so long before I realized that I’m non-binary that the pronouns themselves are immaterial to me.
Others may have other experiences.
I believe that Malaya just indicated she was above pronouns and doesn’t care which you use to describe them, or whatever.
I’ve heard of some people preferring if you change it up. IIRC, someone who did a guest column for Captain Awkward ages ago liked it better when people used both/all of their pronouns, but I think they were genderfluid.
Another data point from a she/they user: I’m not fussed at what combination thereof people use to refer to me; it’s more that some days I feel more one, some days I feel more the other, and since I don’t wanna keep updating people on which day it is, I figure either one is accurate enough.
Not non binary but at least according to Malaya’s cast page, she does not care what pronouns are used. Their cast page uses both interchangeably.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/cast/attachment/2020castmalaya/
But her being so obviously insecure (and/or distressed), even while trying to talk herself up so, is So adorable! ^_^
Are we talking about the same Malaya?
Malaya, a peninsula depending south of southeast asia…
Every time Malaya does or says something that would make me like her a little bit, she almost immediately does or says something that negates that.
What did she just say to negate it?
No, Malaya’s an asshole, full stop. I’m sure there’s various reasons for them being an asshole, but that doesn’t stop them from being an asshole.
It ain’t like being non-cis makes one a better person. Having more privilege can lean things towards that, and sometimes un-closeting oneself can lead to a great deal of baggage being dropped with helps one relax and stop acting like an asshole…
…but no, Malaya’s always been an asshole. Some people are just insufferable assholes, and they come in all shapes, sizes, ages, genders, sexualities, cultures and creeds.
There are saints and devils in almost every group.
No saints in the Nazis, though, they’re all assholes.
I tolerate Malaya because she’s hot. And Penny was fine because eye candy.
So Malaya wore the binder during the time-skip months
Damn you Willis!
As a fun aside, typing “damn” into my phone now immediately suggests “you Willis” as the next word(s). As it should.
Your phone has been correctly schooled.
You know, what I know of as a binder is not something you wear, so unless corsets worn ironically have become part of the style, I feel I am missing social context.
A binder, in this context, is a compressive undergarment for the upper torso, intended to create the appearance that breasts are not present.
Thank you, Chris.
To expand… Typically worn by trans men who have not yet had top surgery, and, as in this case, AFAB non-binary and fluid individuals who are presenting masculine or androgynous.
Huh? What do you mean? People wear underwear, that doesn’t mean other people will see it. Unless there’s another word for “wear” that I don’t know about.
It’s what a binder does to you when you wear it that is seen. It compresses the chest and minimizes breasts, creating a more masculine presentation.
Another meaning for “binder”? In any other context, I’d assume it meant something for binding paper….
We need Malaya in guy clothes.
Malaya is the best pony. Her unearned self-confidence is now…earned.
I thought Malaya identified as “fake-y” not phony.
Fuck yeah, Malaya. God love her <3
I wish we'd gotten to see her explore with things like binders before but this is great.
And Booster continues to be an icon of relatability.
God I love Malaya so fucking much.
I appreciate that Joyce acknowledges Malaya without making it too weird, and also has realized that, Booster is part of a group of people (not just one person with confusing (to Joyce) pronouns), and even though she doesn’t quite know what that means or is called, she wants to recognize it.
She/They/Whatever’s too sexy for her/their/whatever’s shoes, too sexy for her/their/whatever’s shoes…
You’ve got a good rhythm going.
Malaya you…don’t have to act “cool” about gender.
You don’t have to act cool about anything.
You SHOULDN’T act cool about anything.
She changed in character right? It’s been a while.
But if they didn’t act cool, how would everyone know she doesn’t give a shit?
She’s always had a degree of that condescending air of detached superiority. Basically all of her interactions with Sal. She’s definitely never been one of my faves. I’ve just known too many people like that who never failed to make me feel utterly inferior for even speaking in their presence.
But I do wonder if we’re eventually gonna get some backstory that explains why she is like this. It reads a lot like a defense mechanism (or she could just really have an ego I dunno).
(To be clear, I don’t mean the “transcend gender” part, even I have moments when I feel like I want nothing to do with gender and I consider myself cis…not wanting to deal with gender is a very valid feeling….I just mean the way she talks to/treats people completely unrelated to that)
Honestly I hope we get some justification for the way she behaves, because it absolutely drives me nuts, and she’s pretty much the only main cast member I just absolutely can’t stand. Even Mike seemed to try to push people in directions that were good for them with some degree of regularity.
She had that revelation/reveal about her gender but I don’t know if they actually decided to stop insisting that everyone (especially Sal) is being fake about everything all the time.
I feel sorry for Booster about being the “lucky” person who gets to be the focus of Joyce’s growing pains on this particular issue, but I will be happy if their being annoyed by her is the sacrifice needed for her to have an easier time embracing it when she finds out that she has a sister.
Booster should not have to suffer for Joyce’s character development, the comic was snarking about this literally three days ago.
I relate to she/they/whatever SO HARD.
DO NOT TOUCH
SCIENCE PROJECT
I noticed.
So Fuckface is a science project.
Well played, Malaya, well played.
She’s recreating Magic School Bus, starring herself as a checked-out, disinterested Ms. Frizzle.
You were so close, Joyce. So close.
Also, Malaya shows that all huymans are equals. Cis, trans non binary… we can all be equally assholish.
This is exactly the kind of cis-character-centric viewpoint the comic was rolling its eyes at literally three strips ago.
Dangit. This was supposed to be a reply to Cass up above.
Considering the author is a cisgender man, this can be a nice self deprecation.
I’m very grateful to my computer for offering an opportunity for me to spend the next 24 hours being completely misinterpreted.
Willis came out as non binary a while ago.
Wait, they did?
Yeah, a few months ago he said he went by he/they pronouns on Twitter. Someone messaged him on Tumblr to offer tentative congratulations on coming out and he said he had some imposter syndrome about the whole thing but he was worried about his then-recent surgery and wanted to tell people on the extremely off chance something went wrong, so he’d changed the pronouns on his twitter before he went in.
so… now one of Willis’ autobio characters is talking to the other?
They’re all facets of Willis’s personality, in one way or another. Joyce got the fundamentalism and food neuroses, Ethan got the Transformers obsession… DoA is like Inside Out if it was a webcomic.
See, now this is why I don’t believe Mike is really dead. Those of us with an inner Mike may learn to control him, but if he’s part of us, he’s not going away.
Mike appears to Amber as a Force ghost now. He may be gone, but he’ll live in our hearts and moms forever.
Any time you get a nickel in your change, that’s Mike flipping you off.
I am surprised and glad to learn
Cor blimey, are there *any* webcomic writers who are cisgender and heterosexual? Every one I can think of is in the QUILTBAG somewhere. I thought Willis was an exception, but nope, apparently he’s in the majority after all. 🙂
I wrote “cisgender and heterosexual” because I didn’t want to write “cishet”, which often has a hostile tone. But I’m not that keen on what I did write either, and I can’t edit.
Let’s go with “… who are cis and straight?” That sounds better.
Off the topnof my head?
Scott Kurtz.. (pvp)
Howard Taylor (schlockmercenary)
Gabe and Tycho (penny arcade)
Phil Foglio (girl genius)
Doc (thewhiteboard)
Aerie (Punch and Pie/Queen of Wands)
Sohmer (LICD/LFG)
Randy Milholland (something positive)
Danielle Corsetto (stuckat32, girls with slingshots)
I’m not 100% on those because I simply don’t recall it ever being an out discussion. But several are married in cis relationships.
But more importanly, I must apologize, because people’s apparent or actual identity and orientation are irrelevant to their worth as a human being and artist. A better answer should have been, “what does it matter what the author’s identity or orientation is?”
Since art is about what is invoked in the observer (often despite what the artist is tryimg to achieve), the artists id only matters if they want it to influence how their work is perceived.
Well, we like people to talk about things they actually have a clue about, and being part of a group they write about makes it more likely they have a clue.
That said, yes, Joyce made a mistake here, it takes a lot of training to overwrite the intuitive gendering one is used to. She just started five minutes ago so give her a break. Or is anyone here perfect?
Well, I assume the *writers* think it matters what their identity or orientation is, or they wouldn’t mention it, and then no-one would know. I’m certainly not going to tell any writer who does mention that they should have kept it to themselves.
* does mention it
Ayyyyyyyyyy!!! 😀 I’d managed to miss that, but congrats to them!!
I’m not exactly sure about how david identifies, but he does use he/they pronouns, according to their twitter bio, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s some form of non-binary.
My thoughts were more on the Jacq side that the Joyce side; I’d rather see Joyce bumble through this with a new character that I don’t particularly care about one way or another yet because I don’t want Jacqueline to be the one making wincing faces at Joyce stumbling around her pronouns with the grace of a bull in a china shop.
I just kinda really want to see Jacq get lucky enough to have an unrealistically smooth fantasy coming out with one member of her family, considering how very much the opposite she must have been expecting very recently.
Wait, has Jocelyn changed her name in a Patreon strip?
*wince* No, my googling my failing at spell her name right + Dumbing of Age to try to get the right spelling managed to have me grab a different wrong spelling instead! I should have just gone back a page to the character links on the main page, I’m just too used to googling when I’m not sure of my spelling.
“Ugh, that’s a Kennedy”
– Either Carol or Hank in that flashback bonus strip
Joyce was simply too much of a Good Christian Girl to ever notice Malaya’s chest
Judging by her reaction to Billie’s bosom, your comment is a lie.
Perhaps Billie’s chest was harder to ignore.
Also, it would have been cold in November so it probably wouldn’t have struck Joyce as odd that sweaters/coats were hiding Malayla’s chest. If she’s still trying to be first to the showers so she can take one before they get gross, she might have gone the whole month without seeing Malayla in something lightweight enough to reveal that they were binding.
(There’s a short story by the Yarn Harlot about how she’s always caught off guard by someone being very pregnant come Spring because the heavy coats hid their belly. One year she decides to just make something ahead of time and the woman who turned out to be pregnant that year was having twins.)
Malaya reminds me of a lot of shitty toxic ex-friends and it’s part of why I have a hard time enjoying her. It’s that air of, whether or not she fully believes it, ‘no matter what, I’m better than you.’
The friends (especially one in particular) were people who came off as really cool, and chill, and while not super popular (and definitely not popular in the high school movie way), were fun to be around and just had something about them that made you want them to like you.
But once you were their ‘friend,’ or even just spent time in their vicinity more than a couple times, and let your guard down a bit, they started being shitty to you. You like something? Oh, that’s cute that you’re still into something lame like that, but I’m into superior things. Oh, you like the same thing as me? Well you like it wrong, in a way that makes you gross.
And I know most of that isn’t how Malaya is, but it’s the feeling she gives off, to me, when she talks to Sal and stuff. And that sucks because I am interested in her character arc.
I mean, she did spend almost every interaction with Sal insisting she was being fake about who she is. “You’re wrong for liking the thing” and “You’re wrong because you’re only pretending to like the thing” are in the same neighborhood of “you’re wrong no matter what” so this makes sense to me.
Please draw Malaya in a binder one day, Willis! It’d be really cool to see, I think !
Oh Joyce….Well…at least she’s trying.
Also as an artist who loves plaid, that alt-text is a pain I feel all too well. It looks so pretty when it’s done but wow it’s a pain to draw!
Well, I continue to find Malaya a pain in the ass, but now have the appropriate pronouns.
Malaya also trascends pronouns. And pains in the ass, FWIW.
My keyboard also transcends n, sometimes.
I just love Malaya So Much ^_^
So adorable
Glad she seems to be promoted to main cast! Hopefully that means we’ll see more of her in the coming years =) Weee!
Malaya also transcends having a personality. Having a bundle of insecurities is way cooler.
I never really saw them as insecure (until we found out why she had such a problem with “fake” people), just really convinced of their own greatness and without time for people who put up disingenuous fronts like Sal arguably did.
She also pulled that on Lucy though, but the universe likes to pick on Lucy. She’s like a girl Danny.
The bad news, Malaya, is that Joyce doesn’t like or pay attention to you enough to notice such things. A hard blow, I know. That’s just the way it is though!
Meanwhile, I think that Joyce’s apology is about #763 on their mental tally chart and that they lost the will to respond about a hundred sincere apologies ago.
You know, I hate hating a character that’s supposed to be sympathetic, especially when it’s in an ensemble cast where they’re all crashing into one another; it makes me feel like a trash person. But…god, I just cannot stand Malaya. I’ve never been able to stand Malaya, even back in their Shortpacked days. In fact, their introduction and ascension to major character status was kinda where Shortpacked dove off a cliff for me.
When has Malaya ever been supposed to be sympathetic? I’ve never been able to sympathise with her for more than one panel at a time, because she instantly undermines it, every time. She is my least favourite member of the cast.
I mean, Malaya’s initial version back over at Shortpacked was being a female Mike in a lot of regards. Them being non-binary really hasn’t changed that, in the end, they’re a self-absorbed, arrogant asshole. Ain’t like being non-cis is some magic status that makes one immune to being an ass.
I don’t think DoA Malaya has ever meant to be a particularly sympathetic person beyond being owed basic decency like “Sal and Amber shouldn’t toss her around like a ragdoll because they feel like it.”
I just think they’re really convinced of their own greatness instead of having actual narcissistic viewpoints.
“convinced of their own greatness instead of having actual narcissistic viewpoints.”…
What is the actual (or even functional) difference? Redeemability? If a person goes about looking for excuses to be a jerk, they are one. Unless they’re actively and honestly trying to change that about themselves, they aren’t worth the time of day.
Think of it like having oodles of self confidence.
Heck, Malaya doesn’t really go out of their way to be a jerk. They have it out for Sal because Sal indulges in being a Cool Motorcycle Rebel and also tried to beat them up.
Being self confident is no reason to lack empathy. Lots of very self-confident people have high degrees of empathy and don’t go around actively tearing others down. They may mis-state the ease of something, or accidentally injur someones feelings, but they’re still able to care about that and apologize.
Malaya and her ilk are unsympathetic to the plight of those around them. Honestly she seems like a borderline or, psycho- or socio-path a lot of the time. Her new gender id exploration colours that, but how she treats people is still remorseless, so there is still a lack of sympathy for others.
Malaya is pretty obnoxious all around – with exception of Marcie. And without the redeeming traits we see in the other obnoxious characters (except Mike, for a long time).
God damn that is some CASK STRENGTH MALAYA, lol
I feel like with Mike dead she absorbed all of his Holden Caulfield Impersonation powers and can now designate people as “phonies” merely by eye contact, though she mostly assigns this debuff to Sal, because of Course
Faz, Malaya, and Mike enter a room. Only one can leave. Who do you pick?
Faz. He’s just a poor dumb kid who wants to be better. I’ve known people like Malaya and they rarely get less obnoxious without some serious introspection. As for Mike, he’s Problematic At All Costs
and now he’s dead.I’d also pick Faz for the same reason, though I’m tempted to leave all three of them in the room because I don’t think we’ve ever seen any of them interact with each other.
Mike. Coz zombies.
The three would come out just to spite us
For a nickel.
Mike marries Malaya and adopts Faz. Just to piss people off.
I’ve seen marriages that lasted based on less.
That depends: Am I in the room? If so, my decision-making goes straight to “Who annoys me the most?” and it would likely be Mike.
As seen in Dumbing of Age?
Mike, he’s shown the most nuance and growth, and when he’s in massive asshole mode, he’s at least often amusing.
There’s no power in the ‘Verse that could stop Malaya leaving
Faz in this verse is a child so he’s the obvious pick. Mike is a corpse Malaya will be stuck with but at least they’re always going to be better than a corpse and can make fun of him for it.
rendering plaid on curves, a very underappreciated skill
Mm.
I’m used to seeing plaid slapped on as a kind of flat fill, just the whole area covered in perpendicular lines regardless of the underlying shape. Happens a lot in manga, where I think it’s computer-generated nowadays, but I remember a painstakingly hand-drawn version in Love and Rockets. The odd thing is, it kind of works. So this is above and beyond the call of duty!
Malaya is nonbinary big mood right there, loving it
Hrmm. I’m not sure how you navigate this situation without it being awkward. Misgendering someone is a conversational pitfall that’s easy to fall into. I’ve misgendereda friend more than a few times before it felt natural and they never called me on it but that was from a perspective of being friends for years and not strangers, which must be more frustrating. I think it’s a no win situation. Unfortunately both Booster and Joyce are upset at the end of the day.
Also how do you tell which pronouns someond prefers if you’re first meeting them. How did Walky know? I assume Booster told him off panel unless he just defaults to they/them when first meeting someone which is an option I try to implement. In my experience as a cis male I wouldn’t be insulted by a they or them.
Personally I think it would be easier to have giving your pronouns be an accepted part of greeting strangers instead of playing a social guessing game. “Hello I’m Sirk, He/him, they/them ect,” And everyone tries their best. At the dndc of the day getting accidentally misgendered in polite conversation where everyone is sincerely trying isn’t the end of the world and learning to use they/them isn’t rocket science unless you have a language or speech impairment. We can get there.
DNDC? Dunwoody North Driving Club? (DnC ** does Not compute)
Plz help?
I relate to Joyce here, a bit.
I have such a hard time changing pronouns in my brain. If there’s some reliable way to do that, I don’t know what it is. I end up (very unintentionally) misgendering a lot, to the point where I feel I should just avoid trans* people entirely rather than subject them to me. But it’s also wrong to avoid someone just because they’re trans. Ethical dilemma.
Woe is me, poor cis person. (/sarcasm) I’m not asking for sympathy or anything. It’s a me-problem, one of the ways my brain is broken, and it shouldn’t be about me.
Anyone have brain-reprogramming tips?
No-one has ever come up with any reliable and non-harmful means to alter thinking patters other than repetition and conscious direction of what you want to say or think.
For a while about half of my friends were lesbians. Sheer repetition got me to a stage where I’d keep accidentally referring to a woman’s boyfriend as her “girlfriend.”
I would very much like to know if anyone has a tip of this nature as well. I’m NB myself, but the pressures of enculturation often overtake my mind, and, to my embarrassment, it’s not totally uncommon for me to misgender friends and family whose gender identities I’ve damn well known for many years. I try not to make a big, performative deal about it when it happens other than a “Shit, sorry. Damn enculturation,” but it’s still annoying. I’m not a fan of it happening to me, so you think I’d be able to get my brain to cooperate when it comes to other people. -.-
Seriously, if you’ve got an idea, help an enby out, will you?
I BELIEVE that it’s not a lack of caring on my part. I certainly hope that it isn’t. But sometimes conversations happen quickly, and the wrong pronoun shoots out before I can code switch.
Yeah, brains are weird and societal pushing of binaries sucks.
Societal punishing too.
The best advice I have? Try to get it right, but when you get it wrong, treat it more like you called a guy named “Dave” “Steve” instead: Correct yourself, say sorry, but don’t make a deal out of it. Folks want to be respected but also not feel like they’re a burden, or that they’re being patronized or treated like some sort of Project Of Self Improvement.
But yeah, work on getting it right, because there’s only so long that it remains okay.
I wonder if I could get away with adopting Malaya’s pronouns…I identify exactly with them (she/they/whatever) but also don’t want to seem like a jerk in my sig line.
That’s not jerky at all. Whatever your pronouns are it’s OK to have them in your signature/bio/whatever. Maybe it just seems jerky to you because Malaya is saying it and everything they ever say or do is jerky
there are plenty of others i’ve seen that do!
Malaya is just full of insecurities.
HA! I was almost right! The note says, “Do not touch science project”.
Malaya doesn’t want friends.
She wants CHALLENGES.
I’m going to armchair hypothesize and I do not intend to offend. It’s not your job to be my interest focus. I do find what you said fascinating though. Maybe your particular situation is similar to Prosopagnosia(face blindness). (the following theory is case specific and not intended as identfying a general case “vector” or anything else as vulgar). But if a person is truly gender blind, then would they then not have a gender identity? Or are the mechanisms completely unrelated so that a gender blind person could still be heavily cis-oriented? (Like Hellen Keller, who had terrible upsets as a child because she was so frustrated understanding that there was a world going on around her, but something was preventing her from seeing/hearing it.) Could a person be heavily oriented to be turned on by the idea of particular genitalia, but be unable to recognize them?
Again, I apologize for any insult.
Ugh, this was suppose to reply to Generoth.
*Ganaroth. I’m sorry.
One: Gender is not related to sexual orientation/attraction or biology; it’s internal. (Hell, the reason it took me so long to realize ‘oh this is probably at least semi-gendered’ is because I experience basically no issue with being socially treated as my assigned gender at birth; it’s all physical dysphoria and a touch of ‘I’m fine with some gendered terms but others feel odd applied to me’ that I previously associated with being autistic.)
Two: Disabled people can very much have strong sense of their own gender, trans or otherwise, across a wide spectrum of disabilities. Again, it’s internal. Sexual orientation as well.
Three: For a lot of people, being ‘attracted to men’ is distinct from ‘attracted to penis’ or women/vaginas. Not all, but lots of queer people are into specific presentation over a lot of physical characteristics. (There’s a difference between a butch lesbian’s presentation and a masculine straight man’s, even if said lesbian is trans. A femme queer woman and a feminine straight woman, as well.)
Those are all very solid points, but I think they (except the last one) miss what I was exploring with gender-blind. (it was used For lack of a better term, because I know gender blind has a meaning in our social context). But what Ganaroth was describing (or what I was curious if they were describing) was not the social stance of being gender blind, but rather a difficulty or near-inability to identify gender. So as a thought exercise I tried comparing that with prosopagnosia (face-blindness) where in severe cases a person cannot identify someone by facial features. If a person was actually neurologically gender blind, they would not be able to identify gender at all. I was in no way implying that any other disability would be unaware of their own gender (since there’s nothing to do with gender in most(all) other disabilities). I don’t know that neuro-gender blind is even a thing. I’m also not saying that being any degree of neuro-gender blind is why anyone elses orientation (LGBTQ2*) would be what they are, not even Ganaroth’s as I’ve made a gross exageration of their described experience.
But (for example), since you (conventionally) can’t explain a colour to a person blind since birth. Or as with neglected children who grow up without language, who learn to speak but are stuck unable to comprehend syntax.
Would a person who was truly unable to see or comprehend gender, have one of their own?
Could such a person be attracted to a gender identity? (maybe they could but not know why)?
Think Galasso here.
Has Galasso ever shown attraction of any kind, though? I always got a feeling that he viewed sex (or whatever he thought he was doing to create Conquest, because . . . just read Shortpacked!) solely as a means to an heir, and was thusly able to power through.
Hey, she’s trying at least. I’ve got a very close friend that I lost contact with for a while and reconnected with this year and learned they’re NB (previously she/her), and I still am trying hard after nearly six months to refer to them as they/them instead of she/her. It just takes practice. (Ignore that previous one. I used the wrong email)
Lets be fair to her, its something rather new to get used to…you will mess it up several times if you are not used to it. I would say to any tras or gender fluid fried/aquientince give me a little time this is new to me there is no bad intention behind it just correct me if i mess up
My middle kid told us they were NB nearly a year ago, and I still keep a Misgender Jar on my desk. Oh well, at least I haven’t filled it yet.
World of difference between people like Joyce who at least acknowledge their upbringing and try to correct, and people who either don’t try or actively oppose respecting someone’s gender.
Well, she’s trying.
It’s getting so you need a translation program to follow this comic lately.
In what regard?
If I had to guess, this is probably some “arglebargle pronouns bad” nonsense
more like various strange words & phrases & initials & stuff like “binder” being used as if it had some meaning other than a place to collect papers in. To retreat to my own generation’s terminology, not all this comic’s readers are necessarily “hip to the jive”.
I mean. You could just google the word “binder,” which immediately turns up results that are directly relevant to this comic. Like literally, the very top results (and I checked on a second browser I never use to make sure my search history wasn’t influencing it).
I’m over 70 and “hip to the jive” was my parent’s generation.
Gravatar checks out
When I was in a high school honors English class, our teacher reprimanded the class because none of us bothered to look up the word ” tintinnabulation” used in a poem. If “binder” doesn’t come up with enlightening result, you can always search “wearing a binder” or “to wear a binder”.
You’re doing well Joyce. I mean you could be doing better, but Booster looks more put upon than aggreived.
Also, to reiterate. Walky take notes! This is how you introduce people. Name, what to call them, interests others might share, publically known but interesting fact.
And, most importantly, introductions go two ways!
Sorry, Malaya… WE didn’t see the binder in November because SOMEONE decided to do a time jump from early October until now!
(Still salty we got no Halloween shenanigans)
Learn to forgive him. For he/they are god and he/they giveth and taketh away, as they want. We All (That is I) wanted to see the get-up for each character, their choices, wants, creativity, resourcefulness, mods, body-mods, etsy-purchases, etc. As they don’t take Our comments personally, we shouldn’t take the time skip as an affront directly right into mah guts/liver/spleen, stabbity-stabbity, with a Sword of Pain +3!!!!!!!
I still do not like Malaya. She reminds me of a few people I grew up with – people who had a need to be acknowledged as somehow better than everyone else. If it was pointed out that someone was good at something, they would point out that they were better at that. As in, someone got a degree in something, but they were better at it naturally than that person who studied. If you did better than one of them at something, it was only because they didn’t put in any effort or they let you win. One of them had such a painful ego that everything was about her – literally, if someone liked you, it was because you were her friend and if someone hated you or was causing problems for you, it was because they were trying to make her mad but couldn’t go after her directly. Her ego was exhausting. With all three of these people if someone liked anyone they knew more of them – they were awful people and needed to be shunned. They would treat the person much like Malaya treats Sal. She is marginally less irritating because she is fictional. That said, for a second there, she made me smile with the she/they/whatever thing.
I didn’t realize it until far too late, but this is one of my exes, and we’ve been in court since we split because of it (kid). Even for a long time after I thought a lot that maybe it was me. Thankfully my older and newer exes have assured me that although we had our own problems, the issues with my kids mom are not me. (other than being suckered in the first time).
A good friend gave me solid advice, and that is the best way to deal with these people is to simply not acknowledge them. Don’t let them be a part of your life. They’ll hate you for it, but it keeps them at a distance. Hopefully then there isn’t something else that forces you to be in proximity.
Also, I find it helpful to default to they/them pronouns routinely.
^This 100%. Even in highschool english (25 years ago) it irked me that the gender-id of the unknown was “he/him”. It just doesn’t make logical sense to assign an id to an unknown. And english lacks (or lacked) an appropriate singular pronoun. But somehow the neutral plural set seemed less wrong than the singular defined male for an unknown person.
Also a fan! I’ve heard it pointed out that the singular “they” has actually been used for at least 500 years. There was a phase when it was considered ungrammatical by the same kinds of people who think you have to say “AN historian.” We’re growing out of that stupidity.
God, Malaya fucking sucks
I honestly think the Shortpacked! version of her is a better person and that’s something I NEVER expected to say about ANY character because almost everyone in Shortpacked! is some variety of garbage
Malaya in Shorpacked had more time as a central focus character, which lent her more time to be portrayed in a nuanced manner. She never stopped being an asshole, but it was more like a Mike-style asshole, where the character isn’t just an asshole.
Thus far, Malaya in DoA has almost always been a secondary character, where their character is primarily seen in context with far more central characters. Thus, we don’t often get past their surface elements, and Malaya’s surface elements are currently “non-binary (or indifferent)” and “asshole”, and the latter is shouted out with a megaphone >_>.
Granted Malaya sucks, what in the world is she doing wrong here? A little faux superiority never hurt anyone.
Is this a teaser for a spin-off strip starred by Malaya?
“Transcenders: Iguana Wars”
Malaya transcends transcendencies; she is omni-transcendent!
Guess I’m responding to a whole bunch of people at once with this one: I don’t really see what DoA Malaya has done wrong.
They’re a jerk to Sal, who was openly disdainful of their every waking moment from the word go, and they still tried to repair things between her and Marcie because the latter clearly missed being with her. I guess Lucy as well? Pretty much of all that was tinged with Malaya being exaggerated, outrageously cartoony about it.
And look at the eyes, the eyebrow, the bold words. That is clearly Tsundere vulnerability. I think she’s actually wonderful but doesn’t want to show it.
i love malaya because she is a cartoon person and not a real person and so her asshattery is fake and used as a punchline
Yeah, same deal for Mike too, but I also can’t really fault people too much for taking it at face value, cause they still are acting like that in universe. I think another interesting example is when Robin was living in Leslie’s apartment, I just thought “haha Robin is goofy and wacky”, but later I saw people point out that she literally broke into someone’s home and refused to leave for several days, which is pretty bad to say the least, and I realized oh shit she really did do that and it wasn’t all just funny haha moments. So there’s cases where we should still look beyond the character’s actions being a punchline.
Malaya’s obnoxious, but hasn’t been nearly as damaging as Mike was. OTOH, she also hasn’t yet gotten as much humanizing as he was starting to get – nor of course a redemptive death.
There’s also a difference between enjoying a character for what they are – we can certainly love a good villain, after all – and actually defending the character as a good person within the fiction. Which we certainly saw with Mike and have seen a bit of with Malaya.
All very true.
Aww, dang, we missed getting to see them trying a binder for the first time.
I can’t decide if Malaya or Carla is my favorite character
why not both
She’s trying, and that’s better than most people
So is Malaya non-binary? I thought she was questioning transgender.
Non-binary is under the transgender umbrella.
Malaya is trans. Not transgender, transcendent
I’m sure this really sucks for Booster right now, but I’m proud of Joyce. She doesn’t understand the issue but she immediately acknowledged this and is doing her best to be respectful. This is a big change from the Joyce who was like, ” Yeah Ethan, let’s date and we can work on making you straight.”
I’m not saying that Booster should have to suffer while Joyce learn nor that their response of noticable exasperation is incorrect. But I’m nonbinary and I remember when I first learned about the identity, I had to have a thinking shift and had to practice with using they/them for particular people rather than just groups or the unknown person.
OK so i guess they only add character sillhouettes once their names are said or something
Compared to my ‘friends’ who refused to acknowledge my identity or pronouns when I came out, Joyce is a fucking Olympic champ here. And my friends were all educated grown adults and otherwise preLGBT liberal people, not recent cult escapees. I really hope she and Booster can be friends, other than the the bumpy introduction they seem to be having a nice time.
I remain firmly on team pro-Joyce. She’s not perfect but I’ve seen few people try so hard to be better.
Also can someone like her be my friend? Its okay if she accidentally calls me ‘she’ and blunders further by over-reacting with her apology, its still so much better than I’ve ever had.
Joyce stumbles, but always tries to be better. That’s really endearing.
Transcending gender is my daily life. I’m so happy to see more non-binary representation!
Best pronoun-changing tip I’ve ever gotten? Practice. At home, by yourself, practice using someone’s new pronouns, out loud. Literally just start talking about someone. If you can’t think of anything to say, just…make up sentences using their name and pronouns, to get into the habit of using them correctly. “Alice is their name. They go by Alice. I should call Alice and ask them something. I like the way Alice styles their hair. I should ask Alice if they have a good cookie recipe. Where does Alice buy their dog food? Alice is really good at their job. I’ll talk to Alice tomorrow and see if they’re free for dinner this week.” If you try to say a lot of nice things, it builds two habits at once, and all of a sudden you’re better at both using Alice’s pronouns and at thinking of and giving compliments, so everyone gets to have a good day.