Nicholas Cage (n)
1. An actor renowned for his emotional expressiveness
2. A head-sized wire mesh cage filled with bees or other stinging insects used for the purpose of facial torture. Brought to popular attention by actor Nicholas Cage.
She hasn’t fully separated her parents in her mind yet (and, I assume, her church from her parents), so while she may understand that her dad is the Good Parent, not hugging him is a byproduct of the betrayal and trauma that she’s currently processing.
I was going an entirely different way, watching Hank’s face gradually become darker and darker. I figured this was either him 1) finally realizing that Carol damn near cost him his daughter and he’s finally finding his backbone; or 2) he is seeing Carol approaching and realizes that he needs to be strong because the organic fertilizer is about to hit the air circulation device.
I agree. Call me optimistic, but I think this is Hank coming to terms with the fact that that his wife and his daughter are standing on opposite sides of a yawning chasm, and he can stay with one or the other, but not both.
And he’s making his choice.
In my view, while Hank definitely made some serious mistakes raising Joyce, primary among them being his sticking with a toxic church and raising her to be a fundamentalist, I think he is, in the end, a good father—or at least, he is becoming one. I really like Hank, and I normally have very little patience for religious fundamentalists of just about any stripe.
Mary has legit already tried to get two people to kill themselves, and has MORE THAN implied that she was going to do the same to Carla. Mary is already there.
Seems like Joyce is a bit cried out at the moment (although not for lack of effort if panel 5 is any indication). No promises for later, though, probably.
Aw boohoo! You both act like you haven’t been kidnapped or had your marriage/faith challenged when you’re wife or mother defended the guy who actively participated in the kidnapping before.
The point was more or less that they’re sad about the extreme situation they just went through but also since this is DoA that’s really par for the course. Joyce has already been through like three different traumatic events herself in like three months. You think she’d be used to it by now. It was meant to be a little silly but if nobody really got it than maybe it wasn’t. I’ll try harder next time.
Tired, still scared for his little girl, angry at Toedad, angry at his wife’s defence of it, angry at himself for not seeing it sooner, scared at what’s next for him.
And that hug is a dad wanting to protect his kid like he is “supposed” to, and not being able to. I don’t think he expects a hug back to be honest.
Also, I think, despite everything, Joyce knows he’s the good one, and is trying to feel safe in that hug despite all her issues right now.
I think Joyce knows he’s the better one, but is still conflicted on whether he falls somewhere in the considerable gap between “better than Carol” and “good” or not. She wants him to clear that higher bar, but has suffered so many shocks and betrayals that she isn’t entirely sure he’s managed it.
Remember, we have information on Hank’s disagreement with Carol that Joyce still lacks.
It was the other way around actually. Joyce asked Jocelyne about Carol and in return she asked Joyce what her take on Hank was. Remember that Jocelyne hadn’t seen any of Hank’s reaction to Becky. Probably still thought of them as a unit like Joyce did.
Jeeez give her a chance, it’s only been — what? 5 frames, what’s that in real time? Two mins? She’s feeling his strength, next page she’ll lean into it and hug back.
Hang on, eye lash in my eye, BRB.
I’m glad she went to see him, she’s not hugging back at the moment but this is a good start. Hopefully they can go get food now, and have the serious talk later. Talking about heavy topics after a good meal is much easier in my experience.
Also, I wonder how will this impending split affect the other Brown children?
John: “So. You’ve destroyed the family, Joyce. All for the lesbian. How do you feel about your mother never talking to either of you again, being cut off from the church? Back me up on this.”
Jocelyne: Wait, I actually might get to stay in contact with one parent? I have a tragic-yet-totally-valid reason to cut the other one out WITHOUT putting myself at risk by coming out, which is at best 50-50 odds of disownment or kidnapping?… I don’t want to say this is better than I was hoping because my sister was kidnapped, my new sister had to give herself up to kidnappers, and they had to watch a man die, but damn.
Highlights include ‘he is a missionary to India’ (a very… loaded connotation there, historically,) a whole lot of tone-policing Joyce’s anger and trauma at being threatened at gunpoint, a whole lot of homophobia involving Becky and calling her being kidnapped ‘consequences’, and his very nice Mustang that was given to him by the church he’s a member of. (Jocelyne suggests it was skimmed off the top of tithes for the poor, and whether he’s actively embezzling or not, she’s right that there is no reason whatsoever for it to be a work expense when his missionwork is on a completely different continent.)
John siding with Carol (with at most some vague acknowledgement that sure, kidnapping Joyce was bad, but is it really worth getting so angry and blowing up their family over it?) I suspect is a given. He may remain in contact with Hank, but that relationship is probably going to be strained as hell.
Jocelyne siding with Joyce I also take as a given. I can see several possible responses there, but at least with her not present right now the odds of her coming out in an impulsive, retributive fury are lower. (We know from her talk with Ethan at Freshman Family Weekend – ‘Might say some stuff I can’t ever take back’ – that it’s something she’s at least thought about. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/heated/ For reference) That said, I think she’s going to take this as more evidence that Hank might well be safe to come out to, and that Carol definitively is not. Hope Hank makes sure to grab any birth certificates and such the kids might need and the parents still have custody of while he moves out. Jocelyne might not come out to Hank and/or Joyce immediately, but she’s definitely readjusting the mental calculus there. Carol might not ever find out she has two daughters as Jocelyne blocks her while clearly backing Joyce’s play, but I think she’s been planning a worst case scenario where she was cut off from BOTH parents for a while now. (Of particular interest is the section with her and Becky where she was QUITE knowledgeable and helpful in what Becky needed to get a job and bank account and the like.)
Jordan is, as ever, an enigma. This might prompt Jordan to put some tentative feelers back out, or whatever went down between him and the parents might have been REALLY bad, or he might reach out a few years down the line. (That said, since Jordan is included in the Patreon voting exclusions as ‘someone who’s clearly being kept secret for a reason’, I think the odds he shows up eventually are pretty high.)
We don’t know how any of the other kids think of divorce, either in the abstract or the concept of their parents, specifically – Joyce is such a bundle of anxieties we can’t assume her hangups carry over to the others.
Sometimes a lot of memory, willingness to tag trawl in the wee hours, and the kind of writing skills and inclination where I’ve joked/threatened an elaborate analysis of the themes of Ace Attorney by game all pay off!
(The post-DS era is a lot less… deep, shall we say, but you can get at least one not-immediately-obvious throughline for each of the original trilogy games and Apollo Justice.)
For me it’s Hank getting progressively angrier at the world when he realizes Joyce isn’t hugging him back … and Joyce resigning herself to being hugged but not wanting to hug him back.
I don’t think Hank is angry at the world (in this split second)? I think it’s him realizing just how much his church, wife, religion, and even he himself have hurt his daughter–to the point where she’s so hurt, she refuses to hug him back. Maybe a cocktail of guilt and anger?
Joyce MIGHT want to hug her dad back deep down (it might even have been her first instinct, given she’s a hugger) but she’s angry at her mom, and since her mom and dad are a ‘unit,’ she’s angry at Hank, too. But the fact that she allowed Hank to come at all has shown that she’s at least beginning to separate them. Just like she separates her peas from the mashed potatoes!
I feel like panels 5 and 6 are Joyce realizing her dad and mom are a broken unit and how that may be harder for her to deal with than her mom supporting the church bailing Becky’s dad
Glad that Hank’s not doing much more than the hug (which is admittedly big and he doesn’t ask, but A: Baby steps, B: is still based in physical comfort for Joyce, who is a hugger.) As discussed yesterday, this is a situation where Hank should be pouring comfort in, not needing it from Joyce – or Becky, for that matter, but she’s not here. (Thank you to Susan Silk and Barry Goldman for the Ring Theory of Grief and Support! https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-xpm-2013-apr-07-la-oe-0407-silk-ring-theory-20130407-story.html?_amp=true)
Also, the art here is so expressive with so few changes. The red in Hank’s eyes, the ways their mouths wibble – it’s excellent. Glad Joyce gets a moment to cry and be hugged by an authority figure who’s trying not to fail her. (… This sounds really sad put that way, but. Well. The bar’s pretty damn low right now.)
Also a valid read. The fact that Joyce is letting herself be wibbly and vulnerable in the fifth panel – not angry, and we’ve seen her putting up a much stronger face around Dorothy and the Keeners – does suggest she’s getting SOME comfort out of this even if she’s not up to hugging back, though, which is why I’m going for the more generous one where it’s at least mutually supporting.
That said he really should be asking first. Come on, Hank, we have the Consent – It’s Not Just Sexy, It’s For Always pamphlets all laid out for you and everything.
Although I agree that asking for a hug may be better in this context, I really, really don’t like the idea of a world where the norm is for a father to have to ask for a hug from his daughter.
If you take the current context, but substitute Joyce’s parents with “good” parents, the very first thing they’ll do is hug their daughter. And I think it would be very strange to have to ask.
I’m autistic, and while I don’t have particular issues with hugging, I know plenty of fellow auties do and are pressured by parents/other relatives to do it anyway. Or forced, in the case of particularly young kids.
If circumstances were better, yeah, Hank could do it nonverbally or pretty near default because we know Joyce is a hugger. In these particular ones, she’s emotionally exhausted and burned out on authority figures so he’s on thin fucking ice. And if Joyce had ever indicated she’s not comfortable with hugs, being a parent doesn’t give you a pass there.
(The fact that Joyce was also drugged and assaulted and Hank assuredly doesn’t know that, and that she had a serious panic attack from being grabbed yesterday is also a factor here that just occurred to me. Also damn I just connected those two things in my head and we knew Joyce’s panic was a PTSD symptom. I forgot Ryan had started to grab her and cover her mouth before Sarah brought the bat in, shit, no wonder. Yeah there are very good reasons Joyce might not be open to hugs right now.)
That’s what I get. No longer a package deal or not, she’s still not sure she can trust him. He was good to Becky, yes, but he took the lead in trying to get Joyce to stay away from Dorothy. Just because he’s okay with Teh Gay when it’s a kid he’s known forever doesn’t mean he’s cool with her rejecting Jesus.
Not just not being able to give it yet — not being able to process the idea. Dads are strong! Dads are who you go to to fix problems! (See Joyce’s immediate reaction on hearing of Becky’s problems when she first showed up.) Now she’s mad at her parents, just found out they’re literally not a unit (there have been hints before — they lie to each other, Carol using Hank’s phone without his knowledge, but this is major), and just found out that her father is capable of tears, despite her coming from a tradition where men don’t cry. Then he hugs her, and it’s not just “My baby’s all right,” it’s also “I, personally, need reassurance and forgiveness too.” And everything is broken.
Not that I think this is the be-all and end-all of what’s going on; all the other possibilities people have raised are probably contained in this. Emotions are complicated.
It is really hitting me just how much Hank loves his daughter. And how willing he is to improve, how sorry he is, just… everything. I’m looking forward to seeing how this lunch goes.
I’m also looking forward to seeing Carol’s reaction to being served those divorce papers
Hank: Sweetheart, I have something to tell you. It’s not going to be easy, but I promise that I will help you through it, and that we’ll get through this together.
Joyce, bracing herself for the D-word: What is it, Dad?
The last time my dad tried to hug me I shoved him in the stomach as well as I could with my arms pinned down (without getting into it, it was a contextually appropriate reaction)
I really don’t like this kind of hug where she’s not hugging back and her arms are pinned, but I’m guessing it’s more of a “I’ll be here for you” thing and not a weird control thing.
Another day of this comic hitting close to home but today it’s still far enough that I’m jealous…
In the last panel she’s leaning her head against him and isn’t rigid in his arms – she does accept the hug but it takes her a while to recognise it as an offering of love and comfort and apology.
I’m sorry that you were in that position and do get what you mean about a tight body grip preventing you from using your arms or moving your body really not necessarily being something positive.
There are moments that the words don’t reach
There is suffering too terrible to name
You hold your child as tight as you can
And push away the unimaginable
I’m willing to bet that Hank was crying not solely because of the whole ‘my wife is a sociopathic zealot who cares more about her religious standing than our daughter’s safety,’ but also because the Keeners giving him a (tentative) invitation to lunch was the straw that broke the camel’s back. I might be reading too much into subtext here, but for these ‘godless’ people to go out of their way just to give him the POSSIBILITY of seeing his daughter… it’d definitely make him realize just how wrong he was about these people, and that the world is not ‘us (the church) VS them.’
Pretty sure Hank’s done a lot more reevaluating of his life (and with it, things some pretty firmly-held beliefs) in the last twenty four hours than he has in the last decade or so, yeah.
Like, ALL Joyce’s character development, all at once.
On Hank getting Joyce’s character development all at once:
This. But also, Joyce is 18, and she’s the youngest of four, right? Hank’s probably in his fifties or sixties. He may very well have been a fundamentalist for his entire life—decades upon decades of conditioning, more set in his ways—he’s doing an incredible job of rolling with the punches, in my opinion, and there’s also a huge additional burden of guilt, because he’s got to know, now, that he’s been going along with toxicity and screwing up his kids for years and years. Not to mention that *his* church and his *wife* were the ones who got Ross out of jail. That’s…just, if it were me, I think I’d crawl into a hole for a good long while.
In addition, given just how able Hank is to relinquish his long-held notions when those around him need him to do so, I think it’s easy to see where Joyce gets her sense of compassion. God knows it’s not coming from her mother.
He’s also got to be connecting, given I think this scared him that he’d be estranged from a second child, that the fundamentalist upbringing he supported probably did have a lot to do with whatever went down with Jordan.
Ditto on the hole. I’m impressed he’s making strides this quickly. Though I guess something as unambiguous as this is a real eye opener.
Good point. His life is imploding, he’s lost his daughter, he’s leaving his wife, and the people he’s spent his life demonizing offer him compassion and healing. When you’re down, an unexpected kind gesture can knock you out.
I think there’s also a heaping helping of realizing “my life is NEVER going to go back to normal.”
He’s not going to stay with his wife. He *might* be able to reconcile with his daughter, but he very nearly lost her. His church enabled and encouraged things he finds completely wrong. And a “godless” couple have shown him genuine concern and compassion, when he’s pretty sure he doesn’t deserve either.
Too many fundamental things have changed (no pun intended). The life he was used to, comfortable with, and confident in for so long is no longer one that exists for him. The guy is pretty overwhelmed right now.
It was after Toedad’s first kidnapping attempt. Joyce just got off the phone with her mom, who both defended what he did and repeated the exact same words Toedad said to Becky while he was pointing a gun at them on campus.
Pizza does sound good, but I don’t want it badly enough to live with the pounds it would cost. Sure, I could eat pizza in moderation, but it ain’t gonna happen.
You’re probably all right about Joyce not hugging back being an indication she’s somehow uncomfortable with her dad at the moment (either confused about the not a unit thing or mad he didn’t help more are good options), but I also think it’s possible she’s just finally getting to just BE HELD and let the feelings out. When I’m the one that is being comforted, I generally don’t hug back. I think getting to be the comforter is helpful to Hank too, and I think Joyce is also aware of that.
I could believe that, except Joyce does not look like she’s being comforted by that hug. Her expressions make me wonder if she’s *allowing* him to hug her because she knows *he* needs it.
Whatever she’s feeling, she’s still holding it all in. She’s not comfortable with him yet, not entirely letting down her guard.
closing her eyes I feel is a form of acceptence. Since her eyes show worry, anxiety, nervious, fear before that.
but closing it means she isn’t worried about what is around her. She’s accepting that moment.
or she’s blocking out the world i guess that is possible.
As well as closing her eyes to steel herself to say goodbye or something
My interpretation of Hank’s thoughts by panel: 1/2) worried about his daughter having gone through something traumatic AGAIN and wondering if this is the end of his marriage, 3) slightly relieved his daughter’s willing to speak with him followed by a new surge of worry, 4) horrified realization that she’s not okay enough to hug him back, 5) accepting that yeah it’s still a lot to ask of her right now, 6) desperately hoping he can eventually regain her trust but not wanting to burden her with all the shit he’s processing because she’s dealing with a lot as it is.
FWIW, I think that Joyce is partly going into shock and, yes, she still isn’t sure if she trusts her father enough yet to show vulnerability to him. Even if panel 6 shows that, yes, she desperately wants to do so.
Panel 4 feels like a protective hug to me, but panel 6 feels like he’s hugging her because he needs to hug (and hopefully Joyce is okay with that? Her face in 6 either looks like she’s giving into emotions with him or like she’s getting uncomfortable).
Joyce not returning the hug is definitely understandable. She’s been through a LOT. But her being there for her dad at all is, I feel, a good sign. She’s willing to give him a chance, though it means more preconceived notions about her parents as a whole are being torn down.
Though, I have an innate feeling that she’s gonna take a lot of this real hard. Like she might blame herself for the impending divorce, since she might see it as being caused by her going to college. God forbid her “level-headed” missionary brother chimes in on proceedings, cause he’d DEFINITELY add fuel to that fire, intentionally or otherwise.
I’m hoping that doesn’t happen, cause Joyce has definitely been through enough incidents to last her a lifetime. But given how things are proceeding, I wouldn’t rule it out as a potential outcome.
Hank loves his daughter. Despair in his eyes means how much fear he had that she could be killed. And that to protect her, he needs to get Carol far away from her as soon as possible. Hank, stay strong ♡.
Longtime reader, very rare poster, and father of 2 girls. This one made me want to share thoughts.
I think there is a certain childhood assumption that parents can make it better. Hugs in particular are a go-to offer, especially when there is nothing else to be done. “I can’t actually take whatever pain away, but I can hopefully make you feel safe enough to process.” These kinds of hugs are about reassurance for both that things will be ok. But of course, some things are bigger than a hug.
I still remember the first time my oldest daughter was upset by something and didn’t want a hug when it was immediately offered. Internally, I couldn’t help feeling sad and strangely confused that this hug I offered – the thing that had worked so many times in the past – wasn’t enough this time. Part of me suddenly felt like I had let her down. It meant both my daughter and I would have to relearn and adjust to new feelings and new ways of processing them on a deeper level. My daughter was 6 or 7 when we had that moment, and I think (hope) it ultimately made me a better father. I had to force myself to conciously and intentionally respect the emotions and boundaries that my daughter was telling me, and recognize that if she was upset, i cannot force the hurt away – all I can do is help and support her to whatever degree she needs.
We haven’t talked about it since, but I can only imagine that it must have felt very strange for her as well to realize that a hug from dad was no longer the cure-all for what she was dealing with. It means acknowledging the imperfect humanity of your parents, which could be jarring and even a little disappointing, I imagine. It certainly felt that way to me when I had that moment with my own parents
I think that is the journey I saw both of them playing out in this strip. In their own way, they both realize that a hug from dad isnt going to be anywhere near enough for her at this time. And the implications of that acknowledgement hit them both in different ways. For Joyce it confirms a suspicion that has been growing for a while, leading to a sad acceptance. For Hank, it probably forces him to admit something that he had gotten very good at surpressing – and his growing fear is the growing recognition of how bad things were.
I find it interesting that several different people see joyce leaning into the hug in the last panel, when she hasn’t moved since the hug began, other than facial expressions. Is it a trick of the change in her facial expression? People wanting it, and thus their brain making it so? I unno.
Its the closing of the eyes. Its the relaxing of that detail.
Prior it looked like she was either angry, or scared, or just nervious.
but closing of the eyes is acceptence. or her steeling herself to say goodbye after. (though realistically her parents are still paying for her uni in general I think?)
So I assume thats what is making people think she’s leaning in for it.
Where as I just read it as acceptence of the hug, but not recepricating.
I wonder if one of the reasons Carol wanted to help set Ross free was a similar thought process to Blaine’s – he won’t KILL Joyce, but maybe he’ll traumatize her away from campus. I’m just thinking back to that one strip where she’s like “I want her AWAY from that school, Hank.”
I like how Hank just hugs and holds her. Carol would have launched into a lecture or her down of reassurance of “He was only doing what he believed was right to safe his daughter’ or just laying the blame elsewhere.
Oof hank’s face when he realizes she’s not hugging back and then understands it.
and joyces face where she debates but then allows it.
…
also the mom is aprobably about to walk in and start yelling.
Hope the dad goes “Go have pizza with your great friends… I’ll handle her.”
but yaykno.
i’m still thinking her dad’s gonna die soon. but I’ve thought he was on the chopping block for a pretty long time now and he hasn’t haha.
I don’t think Hank’s going to bite the big bazooka any time soon, in-comic, but I do think he’s realized how damaging and negative the religious environment Joyce was raised in actually is. How contrary to his actual values the teachings are, and how far down the rabbit hole Carol has become.
I can kinda like Hank because he sees his flaws and even tries to do something about it, but he also has those flaws and has not moved past them so it’s long road. ~<3
Hank: he knows he will have to deal with guilt for the rest of his life. He should have done something, not just a phone call. Now it’s too late, even if Joyce doesn’t blame him and/or Joyce forgives him he will still feel guilty.
Joyce: she’s on her own now. She cannot rely on trusted/loved persons of older and more experienced than herself, they failed her. She will have to face the world alone with the only help of her young and inexperienced friends. Worse still, now she knows that age only makes you dumber and (eh… older).
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Aww, got me in the feels T_T
Argh, not the Feels, they burn us…
*Screams in Nicholas Cage*
“H, NO, NOT THE FEELS! NOT THE FEELS! AAAAAHHHHH! OH, THEY’RE IN MY EYES! MY EYES! AAAAHHHHH! AAAAAGGHHH!
I laugh a long time at that. hehehe
Nicholas Cage (n)
1. An actor renowned for his emotional expressiveness
2. A head-sized wire mesh cage filled with bees or other stinging insects used for the purpose of facial torture. Brought to popular attention by actor Nicholas Cage.
Oh, you just HAD to bring that meme screaming back from the grave didn’t you?
(I’d like your post if I could.)
Thank you Willis. That helped me start crying about something else I needed some expression for.
This is the point where you hug him back, Joyce.
Sometimes you need to BE hugged, not to hug someone else. At least that’s true for me.
She hasn’t fully separated her parents in her mind yet (and, I assume, her church from her parents), so while she may understand that her dad is the Good Parent, not hugging him is a byproduct of the betrayal and trauma that she’s currently processing.
I was going an entirely different way, watching Hank’s face gradually become darker and darker. I figured this was either him 1) finally realizing that Carol damn near cost him his daughter and he’s finally finding his backbone; or 2) he is seeing Carol approaching and realizes that he needs to be strong because the organic fertilizer is about to hit the air circulation device.
I think number one hits the nail on the head.
I agree. Call me optimistic, but I think this is Hank coming to terms with the fact that that his wife and his daughter are standing on opposite sides of a yawning chasm, and he can stay with one or the other, but not both.
And he’s making his choice.
In my view, while Hank definitely made some serious mistakes raising Joyce, primary among them being his sticking with a toxic church and raising her to be a fundamentalist, I think he is, in the end, a good father—or at least, he is becoming one. I really like Hank, and I normally have very little patience for religious fundamentalists of just about any stripe.
Opposite sides, nothing. Carol almost got Joyce killed.
While they are on opposite sides morally, that’s not the most immediately relevant thing.
Please be number one, please be number one, please be number one….
I doubt Carol. I betcha she’s off trying to get to Joyce’s room.
I interpreted Hank’s slide into sadness as realizing Joyce is not hugging back and thinking he may be too late, he may have already lost her.
That was my take. 🙁
Joyce does not look happy or comforted.
Nah. Am happy she didn’t.
She should hug his front, too. ;D
Too cute but too sad, iz ded.
that’s okay, Joyce. you hug him back when you want to, and not a second before.
The fact that she allowed to be hugged is enough for him, I guess.
This 100%. Is why I ask my own kids if I can hug and/or kiss them. To teach them it’s ok to say yes or no as is right for them.
me, already feeling emotions: okay let’s go check dumbing of *immediately punched in the gut*
You were expecting something light and amusing? Like Mary meeting Carol and being horrified?
Carol is Mary’s future. I’m not entirely sure if Mary has it in her to be horrified about that, the way she should be.
Mary has legit already tried to get two people to kill themselves, and has MORE THAN implied that she was going to do the same to Carla. Mary is already there.
She’s there for him but not there yet.
Joyce is bracing herself because she knows her dad’s gonna get real snotty. The perils of being short!
You think that’s the problem, but it’s snot.
I see you have a Becky style of coping with feels.
Seems like Joyce is a bit cried out at the moment (although not for lack of effort if panel 5 is any indication). No promises for later, though, probably.
And yeah, they both need that hug right now.
ouch
Aw boohoo! You both act like you haven’t been kidnapped or had your marriage/faith challenged when you’re wife or mother defended the guy who actively participated in the kidnapping before.
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm, or something less pleasant.
It’s sarcasm! Please everybody understand that this is sarcasm!
Um. Okay? What’s it sarcasm of? Not criticizing, I just don’t understand what you were trying to communicate.
Yeah, I’m wondering who the ‘you’ in your statement is supposed to be Sirksome.
The ‘you’ was fairly obviously Joyce and her dad and Sirksome was obviously trying to make a point it’s just not real clear what the point was.
I read it as just generally playful, and as, ‘hey wow a lot of unusual heavy things are going on today’.
Your mileage may vary.
Yup, just snarky sarcasm aimed through the fourth wall.
The point was more or less that they’re sad about the extreme situation they just went through but also since this is DoA that’s really par for the course. Joyce has already been through like three different traumatic events herself in like three months. You think she’d be used to it by now. It was meant to be a little silly but if nobody really got it than maybe it wasn’t. I’ll try harder next time.
Ending a sarcastic statement with /s works wonders.
How are they acting like that?
Hank just looks
tired
It was a long car ride.
With Carol.
You bet he’s tired.
Hank is 2020.
Welcome to 2020. Kidnapping is one of our Events now.
The IOC is in discussions to add the event when Life resumes.
Tired, still scared for his little girl, angry at Toedad, angry at his wife’s defence of it, angry at himself for not seeing it sooner, scared at what’s next for him.
And that hug is a dad wanting to protect his kid like he is “supposed” to, and not being able to. I don’t think he expects a hug back to be honest.
Also, I think, despite everything, Joyce knows he’s the good one, and is trying to feel safe in that hug despite all her issues right now.
I think Joyce knows he’s the better one, but is still conflicted on whether he falls somewhere in the considerable gap between “better than Carol” and “good” or not. She wants him to clear that higher bar, but has suffered so many shocks and betrayals that she isn’t entirely sure he’s managed it.
Remember, we have information on Hank’s disagreement with Carol that Joyce still lacks.
I mean she more or less asked Jocelynne whether she could trust Hank. And that was before the big shirt went down.
What was her response? I don’t remember it.
It was the other way around actually. Joyce asked Jocelyne about Carol and in return she asked Joyce what her take on Hank was. Remember that Jocelyne hadn’t seen any of Hank’s reaction to Becky. Probably still thought of them as a unit like Joyce did.
Joyce not hugging her dad is hitting me in a deeply relatable way.
Jeeez give her a chance, it’s only been — what? 5 frames, what’s that in real time? Two mins? She’s feeling his strength, next page she’ll lean into it and hug back.
Hang on, eye lash in my eye, BRB.
Ok, there’s only one tissue in the box. Someone left just ONE tissue, in the box, ‘n now it’s empty. Anybody got a box of Kleenex?
I have 30-some boxes. Down here in Florida. You close by?
No, no getting close by people! Maintain social distancing or I shall have to summon Sydney Yuss to call you a fool!
Curbside pickup.
Started hoarding when the TP was gone?
Literally sobbing
I’m glad she went to see him, she’s not hugging back at the moment but this is a good start. Hopefully they can go get food now, and have the serious talk later. Talking about heavy topics after a good meal is much easier in my experience.
Also, I wonder how will this impending split affect the other Brown children?
John’s probably gonna go ballistic, or at least seriously disapprove.
Jocelyn’s gonna be all too happy to YEET her mom into the stratosphere.
John: “So. You’ve destroyed the family, Joyce. All for the lesbian. How do you feel about your mother never talking to either of you again, being cut off from the church? Back me up on this.”
Jocelyne: “FREEDOM!”
Jocelyne: Wait, I actually might get to stay in contact with one parent? I have a tragic-yet-totally-valid reason to cut the other one out WITHOUT putting myself at risk by coming out, which is at best 50-50 odds of disownment or kidnapping?… I don’t want to say this is better than I was hoping because my sister was kidnapped, my new sister had to give herself up to kidnappers, and they had to watch a man die, but damn.
Jordan: “In your darkest hour, I COME!”
Hopefully
Not to kink shame, but…
Freud strikes again!
Spelling![/Archer]
OK, I cannot for the life of me, remember anything about John. Did we see him in the comics at some point?
The weekend home Becky and Joyce took after the first kidnapping, they went out for lunch with John and Jocelyne. He did not come off well in all this. Sequence starts here and continues for the five strips through. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/extreme/
Highlights include ‘he is a missionary to India’ (a very… loaded connotation there, historically,) a whole lot of tone-policing Joyce’s anger and trauma at being threatened at gunpoint, a whole lot of homophobia involving Becky and calling her being kidnapped ‘consequences’, and his very nice Mustang that was given to him by the church he’s a member of. (Jocelyne suggests it was skimmed off the top of tithes for the poor, and whether he’s actively embezzling or not, she’s right that there is no reason whatsoever for it to be a work expense when his missionwork is on a completely different continent.)
I bet John’s reaction is all about how it will reflect on him as a True Christian(TM) pastor that his parents are divorced.
No doubt he’ll blame bitter women and Teh Gayz.
Specifically, his little sister and her best friend. “iF THeY JusT KneW THEIr PLaCE AND dID whaT TheY WeRE tOld, EveRyTHInG WOULd Have BEEn fine.”
Jocelyn actually seemed to be holding on to some hope that Carol wasn’t a completely terrible person based on previous comics.
Probably won’t be happy about it.
John siding with Carol (with at most some vague acknowledgement that sure, kidnapping Joyce was bad, but is it really worth getting so angry and blowing up their family over it?) I suspect is a given. He may remain in contact with Hank, but that relationship is probably going to be strained as hell.
Jocelyne siding with Joyce I also take as a given. I can see several possible responses there, but at least with her not present right now the odds of her coming out in an impulsive, retributive fury are lower. (We know from her talk with Ethan at Freshman Family Weekend – ‘Might say some stuff I can’t ever take back’ – that it’s something she’s at least thought about. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/heated/ For reference) That said, I think she’s going to take this as more evidence that Hank might well be safe to come out to, and that Carol definitively is not. Hope Hank makes sure to grab any birth certificates and such the kids might need and the parents still have custody of while he moves out. Jocelyne might not come out to Hank and/or Joyce immediately, but she’s definitely readjusting the mental calculus there. Carol might not ever find out she has two daughters as Jocelyne blocks her while clearly backing Joyce’s play, but I think she’s been planning a worst case scenario where she was cut off from BOTH parents for a while now. (Of particular interest is the section with her and Becky where she was QUITE knowledgeable and helpful in what Becky needed to get a job and bank account and the like.)
Jordan is, as ever, an enigma. This might prompt Jordan to put some tentative feelers back out, or whatever went down between him and the parents might have been REALLY bad, or he might reach out a few years down the line. (That said, since Jordan is included in the Patreon voting exclusions as ‘someone who’s clearly being kept secret for a reason’, I think the odds he shows up eventually are pretty high.)
We don’t know how any of the other kids think of divorce, either in the abstract or the concept of their parents, specifically – Joyce is such a bundle of anxieties we can’t assume her hangups carry over to the others.
Nicely put, Regalli
Sometimes a lot of memory, willingness to tag trawl in the wee hours, and the kind of writing skills and inclination where I’ve joked/threatened an elaborate analysis of the themes of Ace Attorney by game all pay off!
(The post-DS era is a lot less… deep, shall we say, but you can get at least one not-immediately-obvious throughline for each of the original trilogy games and Apollo Justice.)
Good point about Jocelyn knowing what a solo teen needs to get started in life.
I cannot wait to find out more about Jordan, which I can’t help but feel is inevitably coming very soon now.
When you say “very soon” are you talking in-universe or real time? 😉
I mean I hope real-time…
All together now.
Damn.
You.
WILLIS!
Sorry, I’m saving mine up for when I really need them. I think some people are reading the evolutions of expressions differently than I do.
For me it’s Hank getting progressively angrier at the world when he realizes Joyce isn’t hugging him back … and Joyce resigning herself to being hugged but not wanting to hug him back.
My thought, also.
I don’t think Hank is angry at the world (in this split second)? I think it’s him realizing just how much his church, wife, religion, and even he himself have hurt his daughter–to the point where she’s so hurt, she refuses to hug him back. Maybe a cocktail of guilt and anger?
Joyce MIGHT want to hug her dad back deep down (it might even have been her first instinct, given she’s a hugger) but she’s angry at her mom, and since her mom and dad are a ‘unit,’ she’s angry at Hank, too. But the fact that she allowed Hank to come at all has shown that she’s at least beginning to separate them. Just like she separates her peas from the mashed potatoes!
I feel like panels 5 and 6 are Joyce realizing her dad and mom are a broken unit and how that may be harder for her to deal with than her mom supporting the church bailing Becky’s dad
Bit of that, and a bit of Dunedon’s observation, is my guess.
So……. divorce papers when???
Glad that Hank’s not doing much more than the hug (which is admittedly big and he doesn’t ask, but A: Baby steps, B: is still based in physical comfort for Joyce, who is a hugger.) As discussed yesterday, this is a situation where Hank should be pouring comfort in, not needing it from Joyce – or Becky, for that matter, but she’s not here. (Thank you to Susan Silk and Barry Goldman for the Ring Theory of Grief and Support! https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-xpm-2013-apr-07-la-oe-0407-silk-ring-theory-20130407-story.html?_amp=true)
Also, the art here is so expressive with so few changes. The red in Hank’s eyes, the ways their mouths wibble – it’s excellent. Glad Joyce gets a moment to cry and be hugged by an authority figure who’s trying not to fail her. (… This sounds really sad put that way, but. Well. The bar’s pretty damn low right now.)
What I see here is Hank seeking comfort and assurance and forgiveness, and Joyce… not being ready/able to give him that just yet.
Also a valid read. The fact that Joyce is letting herself be wibbly and vulnerable in the fifth panel – not angry, and we’ve seen her putting up a much stronger face around Dorothy and the Keeners – does suggest she’s getting SOME comfort out of this even if she’s not up to hugging back, though, which is why I’m going for the more generous one where it’s at least mutually supporting.
That said he really should be asking first. Come on, Hank, we have the Consent – It’s Not Just Sexy, It’s For Always pamphlets all laid out for you and everything.
Although I agree that asking for a hug may be better in this context, I really, really don’t like the idea of a world where the norm is for a father to have to ask for a hug from his daughter.
If you take the current context, but substitute Joyce’s parents with “good” parents, the very first thing they’ll do is hug their daughter. And I think it would be very strange to have to ask.
If you open your arms and somebody opens theirs and steps towards you to meet you in a hug, a non-verbal request for a hug and response have occurred…
I’m autistic, and while I don’t have particular issues with hugging, I know plenty of fellow auties do and are pressured by parents/other relatives to do it anyway. Or forced, in the case of particularly young kids.
If circumstances were better, yeah, Hank could do it nonverbally or pretty near default because we know Joyce is a hugger. In these particular ones, she’s emotionally exhausted and burned out on authority figures so he’s on thin fucking ice. And if Joyce had ever indicated she’s not comfortable with hugs, being a parent doesn’t give you a pass there.
(The fact that Joyce was also drugged and assaulted and Hank assuredly doesn’t know that, and that she had a serious panic attack from being grabbed yesterday is also a factor here that just occurred to me. Also damn I just connected those two things in my head and we knew Joyce’s panic was a PTSD symptom. I forgot Ryan had started to grab her and cover her mouth before Sarah brought the bat in, shit, no wonder. Yeah there are very good reasons Joyce might not be open to hugs right now.)
This. Regalli said it much better than what I could attempt to.
Cut him some slack, it’s the first time since the incident he’s seeing the child he almost lost.
It’s not that hard or weird to just say “do you need a hug?” In most contexts with good parents
That’s what I get. No longer a package deal or not, she’s still not sure she can trust him. He was good to Becky, yes, but he took the lead in trying to get Joyce to stay away from Dorothy. Just because he’s okay with Teh Gay when it’s a kid he’s known forever doesn’t mean he’s cool with her rejecting Jesus.
Not just not being able to give it yet — not being able to process the idea. Dads are strong! Dads are who you go to to fix problems! (See Joyce’s immediate reaction on hearing of Becky’s problems when she first showed up.) Now she’s mad at her parents, just found out they’re literally not a unit (there have been hints before — they lie to each other, Carol using Hank’s phone without his knowledge, but this is major), and just found out that her father is capable of tears, despite her coming from a tradition where men don’t cry. Then he hugs her, and it’s not just “My baby’s all right,” it’s also “I, personally, need reassurance and forgiveness too.” And everything is broken.
Not that I think this is the be-all and end-all of what’s going on; all the other possibilities people have raised are probably contained in this. Emotions are complicated.
Given that the bar has been “going along with Carol’s toxicity,” I’d say the bar has been *underground.*
It is really hitting me just how much Hank loves his daughter. And how willing he is to improve, how sorry he is, just… everything. I’m looking forward to seeing how this lunch goes.
I’m also looking forward to seeing Carol’s reaction to being served those divorce papers“I can’t be divorced! I’m a Good Christian Woman!(TM)”
But seriously, I’m also hoping we get to see the reaction.
Joyce is bracing herself. She knows what’s coming: the D word.
Hank: Sweetheart, I have something to tell you. It’s not going to be easy, but I promise that I will help you through it, and that we’ll get through this together.
Joyce, bracing herself for the D-word: What is it, Dad?
Hank: I know you’re the Dingdong Bandit.
That’s… *a* D-word.
OK, THAT made me almost spit out my Cheerios!
The last time my dad tried to hug me I shoved him in the stomach as well as I could with my arms pinned down (without getting into it, it was a contextually appropriate reaction)
I really don’t like this kind of hug where she’s not hugging back and her arms are pinned, but I’m guessing it’s more of a “I’ll be here for you” thing and not a weird control thing.
Another day of this comic hitting close to home but today it’s still far enough that I’m jealous…
In the last panel she’s leaning her head against him and isn’t rigid in his arms – she does accept the hug but it takes her a while to recognise it as an offering of love and comfort and apology.
I’m sorry that you were in that position and do get what you mean about a tight body grip preventing you from using your arms or moving your body really not necessarily being something positive.
I wonder if Joyce is pointedly not hugging him back, but right now, this is what she can do, and I think Hank will understand that.
I think at this point he knows that even if he’s disappointed she’s not hugging back, she hasn’t pushed him away so it’s not as bad as it could be.
I agree. A few minutes ago, he thought Joyce wouldn’t want to see him at all.
The feels are on my face!
There are moments that the words don’t reach
There is suffering too terrible to name
You hold your child as tight as you can
And push away the unimaginable
*cries*
I’m willing to bet that Hank was crying not solely because of the whole ‘my wife is a sociopathic zealot who cares more about her religious standing than our daughter’s safety,’ but also because the Keeners giving him a (tentative) invitation to lunch was the straw that broke the camel’s back. I might be reading too much into subtext here, but for these ‘godless’ people to go out of their way just to give him the POSSIBILITY of seeing his daughter… it’d definitely make him realize just how wrong he was about these people, and that the world is not ‘us (the church) VS them.’
(I’m talking about the crying he was doing before Joyce walked up to him, BTW)
Pretty sure Hank’s done a lot more reevaluating of his life (and with it, things some pretty firmly-held beliefs) in the last twenty four hours than he has in the last decade or so, yeah.
Like, ALL Joyce’s character development, all at once.
Exactly that. He did the same thing when he accepted
a sinful lesbianBecky.On Hank getting Joyce’s character development all at once:
This. But also, Joyce is 18, and she’s the youngest of four, right? Hank’s probably in his fifties or sixties. He may very well have been a fundamentalist for his entire life—decades upon decades of conditioning, more set in his ways—he’s doing an incredible job of rolling with the punches, in my opinion, and there’s also a huge additional burden of guilt, because he’s got to know, now, that he’s been going along with toxicity and screwing up his kids for years and years. Not to mention that *his* church and his *wife* were the ones who got Ross out of jail. That’s…just, if it were me, I think I’d crawl into a hole for a good long while.
In addition, given just how able Hank is to relinquish his long-held notions when those around him need him to do so, I think it’s easy to see where Joyce gets her sense of compassion. God knows it’s not coming from her mother.
He’s also got to be connecting, given I think this scared him that he’d be estranged from a second child, that the fundamentalist upbringing he supported probably did have a lot to do with whatever went down with Jordan.
Ditto on the hole. I’m impressed he’s making strides this quickly. Though I guess something as unambiguous as this is a real eye opener.
Good point. His life is imploding, he’s lost his daughter, he’s leaving his wife, and the people he’s spent his life demonizing offer him compassion and healing. When you’re down, an unexpected kind gesture can knock you out.
Again, see Hank accepting Becky.
And the version of this hug with Sarah and Joyce (and Becky and Dina).
I think there’s also a heaping helping of realizing “my life is NEVER going to go back to normal.”
He’s not going to stay with his wife. He *might* be able to reconcile with his daughter, but he very nearly lost her. His church enabled and encouraged things he finds completely wrong. And a “godless” couple have shown him genuine concern and compassion, when he’s pretty sure he doesn’t deserve either.
Too many fundamental things have changed (no pun intended). The life he was used to, comfortable with, and confident in for so long is no longer one that exists for him. The guy is pretty overwhelmed right now.
So many blue eyes.
So much said without words.
I think a while ago she had a moment when she asked Sarah that the world’s just broken, isn’t it?
Hank’s having that same realisation right now, and Joyce recognises that.
No hug-back is needed.
It was after Toedad’s first kidnapping attempt. Joyce just got off the phone with her mom, who both defended what he did and repeated the exact same words Toedad said to Becky while he was pointing a gun at them on campus.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/01-to-those-whod-ground-me/everythings-broken/
I agree that this is another “everything’s really broken” moment.
Sometimes, you don’t need to say anything for a while.
Willis, don’t let anyone ruin this moment. I swear to anime, don’t let anyone ruin this moment!
Pizza does sound good, but I don’t want it badly enough to live with the pounds it would cost. Sure, I could eat pizza in moderation, but it ain’t gonna happen.
That fourth panel says “I almost lost my baby today and I’m thanking God I get a second chance”
He almost lost his baby *twice.* Once in a hostage situation, once with Carol. She almost died, and then she might have shunned him.
That’s just an insane amount of that mixed horror-terror-relief cocktail to process.
Right in the feels! I was expecting a sobfest– this is devastating.
Is this the first time she’s called him “dad,” instead of “daddy”? If it is, he’s gonna feel that too.
I found one other instance of “dad.” But it also seemed a little off.
What Dad thinks the not-hugging is about: his culpability in the kidnapping.
Why Joyce is doing the not-hugging: Her parents really truly aren’t a unit huh. She can’t hug to that right now.
Oof.
Big oof, indeed.
You’re probably all right about Joyce not hugging back being an indication she’s somehow uncomfortable with her dad at the moment (either confused about the not a unit thing or mad he didn’t help more are good options), but I also think it’s possible she’s just finally getting to just BE HELD and let the feelings out. When I’m the one that is being comforted, I generally don’t hug back. I think getting to be the comforter is helpful to Hank too, and I think Joyce is also aware of that.
I could believe that, except Joyce does not look like she’s being comforted by that hug. Her expressions make me wonder if she’s *allowing* him to hug her because she knows *he* needs it.
Whatever she’s feeling, she’s still holding it all in. She’s not comfortable with him yet, not entirely letting down her guard.
She does lean into it in the last panel though.
closing her eyes I feel is a form of acceptence. Since her eyes show worry, anxiety, nervious, fear before that.
but closing it means she isn’t worried about what is around her. She’s accepting that moment.
or she’s blocking out the world i guess that is possible.
As well as closing her eyes to steel herself to say goodbye or something
These are all of the feels I was hoping for.
Thank you, Willis, may I have some more please?
What does the comic title reference?
I think it’s just stating the important subject of the strip, due to zero dialogue to form a title.
Wait, scratch that. I blanked out that Joyce said the only dialogue. So the title is directly lifted from that sentence.
Good lord Hank looks cried out. I imagine I’d be too given everything transpiring that day.
Aw…sad dad hug.
I’m not crying, my tablet is crying!
Hank: *Holds Joyce*
Joyce: *Is hold*
Not hugging back, yet.
My interpretation of Hank’s thoughts by panel: 1/2) worried about his daughter having gone through something traumatic AGAIN and wondering if this is the end of his marriage, 3) slightly relieved his daughter’s willing to speak with him followed by a new surge of worry, 4) horrified realization that she’s not okay enough to hug him back, 5) accepting that yeah it’s still a lot to ask of her right now, 6) desperately hoping he can eventually regain her trust but not wanting to burden her with all the shit he’s processing because she’s dealing with a lot as it is.
FWIW, I think that Joyce is partly going into shock and, yes, she still isn’t sure if she trusts her father enough yet to show vulnerability to him. Even if panel 6 shows that, yes, she desperately wants to do so.
Thank you, Willis.
Panel 4 feels like a protective hug to me, but panel 6 feels like he’s hugging her because he needs to hug (and hopefully Joyce is okay with that? Her face in 6 either looks like she’s giving into emotions with him or like she’s getting uncomfortable).
Who’s been cutting all these onions in here?
*plays “Dear Old Dad” from Steven Universe in the hacked muzak*
https://youtu.be/ThfiMq82-lA
This isn’t that much of a cute moment, but that’s the song that popped up in my head with this strip
I mean Dear Old Dad is kind of tainted too
Joyce not returning the hug is definitely understandable. She’s been through a LOT. But her being there for her dad at all is, I feel, a good sign. She’s willing to give him a chance, though it means more preconceived notions about her parents as a whole are being torn down.
Though, I have an innate feeling that she’s gonna take a lot of this real hard. Like she might blame herself for the impending divorce, since she might see it as being caused by her going to college. God forbid her “level-headed” missionary brother chimes in on proceedings, cause he’d DEFINITELY add fuel to that fire, intentionally or otherwise.
I’m hoping that doesn’t happen, cause Joyce has definitely been through enough incidents to last her a lifetime. But given how things are proceeding, I wouldn’t rule it out as a potential outcome.
This is way too much drama for a first semester.
Hostage or not, sometimes it’s just nice to be held.
in the last few days there’s been a lot of times where the page wouldn’t load completely and I couldn’t comment 😐
(and nothing of value was lost, etc, etc)
Dad is accepting of a whole lot of new things since Joyce went away to college literally only several weeks ago.
Hope he’s not terminally ill.
Did anyone else consider that?
Hank loves his daughter. Despair in his eyes means how much fear he had that she could be killed. And that to protect her, he needs to get Carol far away from her as soon as possible. Hank, stay strong ♡.
Longtime reader, very rare poster, and father of 2 girls. This one made me want to share thoughts.
I think there is a certain childhood assumption that parents can make it better. Hugs in particular are a go-to offer, especially when there is nothing else to be done. “I can’t actually take whatever pain away, but I can hopefully make you feel safe enough to process.” These kinds of hugs are about reassurance for both that things will be ok. But of course, some things are bigger than a hug.
I still remember the first time my oldest daughter was upset by something and didn’t want a hug when it was immediately offered. Internally, I couldn’t help feeling sad and strangely confused that this hug I offered – the thing that had worked so many times in the past – wasn’t enough this time. Part of me suddenly felt like I had let her down. It meant both my daughter and I would have to relearn and adjust to new feelings and new ways of processing them on a deeper level. My daughter was 6 or 7 when we had that moment, and I think (hope) it ultimately made me a better father. I had to force myself to conciously and intentionally respect the emotions and boundaries that my daughter was telling me, and recognize that if she was upset, i cannot force the hurt away – all I can do is help and support her to whatever degree she needs.
We haven’t talked about it since, but I can only imagine that it must have felt very strange for her as well to realize that a hug from dad was no longer the cure-all for what she was dealing with. It means acknowledging the imperfect humanity of your parents, which could be jarring and even a little disappointing, I imagine. It certainly felt that way to me when I had that moment with my own parents
I think that is the journey I saw both of them playing out in this strip. In their own way, they both realize that a hug from dad isnt going to be anywhere near enough for her at this time. And the implications of that acknowledgement hit them both in different ways. For Joyce it confirms a suspicion that has been growing for a while, leading to a sad acceptance. For Hank, it probably forces him to admit something that he had gotten very good at surpressing – and his growing fear is the growing recognition of how bad things were.
1. Sorry for ramble.
2. To clarify, my daughter and I never went through aything as traumatic as thisn thankfully!
I was wondering what a Dad perspective might be. Thank you for sharing ♡
Seconded!
I find it interesting that several different people see joyce leaning into the hug in the last panel, when she hasn’t moved since the hug began, other than facial expressions. Is it a trick of the change in her facial expression? People wanting it, and thus their brain making it so? I unno.
Its the closing of the eyes. Its the relaxing of that detail.
Prior it looked like she was either angry, or scared, or just nervious.
but closing of the eyes is acceptence. or her steeling herself to say goodbye after. (though realistically her parents are still paying for her uni in general I think?)
So I assume thats what is making people think she’s leaning in for it.
Where as I just read it as acceptence of the hug, but not recepricating.
Also because of Hank’s hand in the last panel. He’s hugging her closer, which gives the effect of her leaning in.
I fell a day behind, but I’m glad because I needed that quick resolution.
Joyce: A hug’s not gonna do it, Dad.
Hank: I know. Just… I need this right now.
“We are going to have to talk.” — either.
Wow. I really have no words to add here. Wonderful stuff.
I wonder if one of the reasons Carol wanted to help set Ross free was a similar thought process to Blaine’s – he won’t KILL Joyce, but maybe he’ll traumatize her away from campus. I’m just thinking back to that one strip where she’s like “I want her AWAY from that school, Hank.”
I like how Hank just hugs and holds her. Carol would have launched into a lecture or her down of reassurance of “He was only doing what he believed was right to safe his daughter’ or just laying the blame elsewhere.
If you want to interpret Joyce’s response as positive you could say she finally feels safe enough to feel sad.
Oof hank’s face when he realizes she’s not hugging back and then understands it.
and joyces face where she debates but then allows it.
…
also the mom is aprobably about to walk in and start yelling.
Hope the dad goes “Go have pizza with your great friends… I’ll handle her.”
but yaykno.
i’m still thinking her dad’s gonna die soon. but I’ve thought he was on the chopping block for a pretty long time now and he hasn’t haha.
I don’t think Hank’s going to bite the big bazooka any time soon, in-comic, but I do think he’s realized how damaging and negative the religious environment Joyce was raised in actually is. How contrary to his actual values the teachings are, and how far down the rabbit hole Carol has become.
Amygdala.brn has stopped working.
Error Code 36: Sadness Overflow.
Delete instances of sadness and attempt to restart? Y/N
> Y
I can kinda like Hank because he sees his flaws and even tries to do something about it, but he also has those flaws and has not moved past them so it’s long road. ~<3
Dammit.
… made me cry.
It’s been a long goddamned time since a comic made me cry.
Yeah, you def got me now.
… dammit.
My two cents:
Hank: he knows he will have to deal with guilt for the rest of his life. He should have done something, not just a phone call. Now it’s too late, even if Joyce doesn’t blame him and/or Joyce forgives him he will still feel guilty.
Joyce: she’s on her own now. She cannot rely on trusted/loved persons of older and more experienced than herself, they failed her. She will have to face the world alone with the only help of her young and inexperienced friends. Worse still, now she knows that age only makes you dumber and (eh… older).
WHO WAAAAAAAAAANTS…
… pizza?