But she’s ALSO feeling guilty and wants to talk to Hank on his own, but she also doesn’t, and the too emotions are playing tug-of-war with the decision-making part of the brain and turning it to taffy.
So appropriate it didn’t even register with me as possibly a typo until I read your response. Maybe that’s because I’ve been hanging around people who English very differently than I did back before I met them. Now I know all about verbing and stuff it’s fine out of sentences. Also because of knowing about the police are really like so there’s way too emotions these days.
I think it’s a good thing. Her Mother is plainly toxic, while the father is coming around and seeing the errors of his church and spouse. And I think Joyce needs parental support more than she realizes. Maybe, with her Dad backing her up, she can stand up to her mother and cut ties with that church.
Yep. Any solace of Hank caring enough about her to stand up to Carol is going to be lost in the shattering of her ideals of marriage and the family style in which she grew up.
To be fair, there are definitely times when it’s not a good idea to be crying. Like if you’re driving at highway speeds, crying is definitely contraindicated. (Slow down, pull over, and stop first.) But that’s situation specific, not gender specific.
Oxymoronic? Dangs can be holy, provided they’re consecrated. And I understand there is a booming market in secondary relics, many of which are “Gall Dang!”s.
Except that ‘dang’ and ‘darn’ for that matter, originated explicitly as an intentional euphemism for ‘damn’ that could be used in public during an era where public swearing was an enforceable legally punishable offense. The meaning is still explicitly the same for all three meaning that any of the constructs “holy damn”, “holy darn” or “holy dang” is equally oxymoronic.
To the contrary: since “damn” refers to condemnation; specifically, Holy God‘s condemnation, technically all damns that are God-damns are holy. The damned are not holy, but the damner presumably is.
Now, it might not be the case that the damn is holy if it comes from other humans (damnatio memoriae). If the unholy damn led to Holy God damning the (human) damner, that would be one damn thing after another.
But working off that premise, any “damn” would be an act of taking the lord’s name [or rather, damnations] in vain. Hence we’re back to darn and dang being preferrable? 😛
When Blaine’s hammer cracked Toedad open
Before they lost Joyce to that tool,
Amber saw her dad with AG’s eyes.
Send Mike 5 cents & your mom, ya fools
And knowing Carole’s feeling evil
She’ll blame Dorothy’s mom & gloat
Taking her husband & child out for dinner,
That’s the last straw, folks. That’s all she wrote.
God, with those baby blues he must look like a kicked puppy. No wonder the Keeners were powerless in the face of that. (Not that I think it’s intentional on Hank’s part, just. Those big, sad eyes.)
Remember, irises are a sign of character depth, not genetics. I bet Carol and John have blue eyes, too—we just don’t see them, like we used to not see Ruth’s green eyes.
The joke/reference was to how Ruth originally had black dot eyes, and after a Dramatic Conversation Offering Vulnerability (and Willis realizing they’d changed her eyes to green later in the Walkyverse) they shifted to green, synbolizing how Billie (and the readers) now see her hidden depths. Ergo, a moment like that for Carol and John could be possible…
But uh. Sure as hell not probable! Nah, I think they do actually have brown eyes rendered as black dots.
I’m guessing Jordan has blue eyes.
Carol’s and Hank’s conversation about “squeezing too hard” or “not hard enough” makes me think he couldn’t take the authoritarian control freak rules and told them to stuff it.
The fact that they are keeping Joyce away from him and won’t tell her why sounds like they’re basically shunning him, which I can’t see them doing if he’d gotten more extreme than them.
I feel like that depends on the manner in which he ‘got more extreme than them’. For example there was a specific religious group with a number of associated churches I remember reading about maybe a decade back that explicitly mixed white supremacist elements into evangelical Christianity as part of their religious views. I feel like that would be a step too far for all the members we’ve met of the Brown family, no matter how shitty some of them may be.
It’s not clear how much they’re keeping him from Joyce vs how much he’s distancing himself from the whole family. Wonder if Jocelyne’s been in touch with him?
I think Willis mentioned somewhere that he gave the kids in the Brown-family the eyes of the parent of different gender. So the girls gets eyes like dad and the boys gets eyes like mom. If that is true and something he keeps up, I’m assuming Jordan will have eyes like Carol.
Iirc, all the kids in this comic have the facial shape of their same-gendered parent, and the eyes of their other-gendered parent.
(So the big baby blues were a hint about Jocelyn.)
Hah. I misremembered — it’s generally eyes of the opposite-gender parent, and hair of the same-gender parent.
You can see it with Dorothy’s blonde hair, like her dad.
(Not always exactly so, just generally. With the Walkertons, both parents have the same dot-eyes, and dad’s dark hair colour is dominant, but we’ve still got it with Sal’s hair texture battle.)
Joe and Ethan are still shaved copies of their dads, because it’s funny.
I read somewhere that Willis tends to design daughters with the eyes of their dad and the hair of their mom, and sons with the eyes of their mom and the hair of their dads, something like that? It seems to hold up for the eyes, at least as far as I can remember, and it certainly is true for the Browns. Joyce and Jocylene get Hank’s baby blues, and John gets the dot eyes.
The Keeners might have had a moment back at Freshman Family Weekend involving the Walkerton lunch, but I don’t remember offhand. Other than that… Hank might have, the last big Weekend of Uncomfortable Revelations About Family. The only other definitely good and definitely not ‘complete clash of personalities’ (ie, the Warners) parents who we’ve seen with any real interaction with their kid were the Saruyamas, and though we only had Dina’s side of that phone call it seemed more like a ‘wonderful for you! We’ll give you date money!’ sort of thing rather than asking. (Though ‘here, we’ll treat you to take your girlfriend somewhere nice sometime’ is one of those things that doesn’t really need input if the parents are actually treating you instead of later leverage or the like.)
Though Leslie did ask Becky if she wanted to stay with her again or get a ride back to Becky’s apartment before offering to buy breakfast forever. (The breakfast was after the previous offer was refused, but given how Leslie was offering it in a ‘I am so worried about you but respect your agency’ way I suspect she’d have been concerned but fine if Becky had turned it down as well.) So we do have at least one prior instance of Lesbian Mom asking.
Well, they are atheists, so they can’t ask their God what Dorothy is allowed to think. Actually, I don’t even quite remember whether they were, or whether they rather decided Dorothy be allowed to choose her faith when she was ready.
They raised Dorothy areligiously so she could come to her own conclusion. I’m pretty sure by them saying they are Godless, they are also atheists though.
As I recall, Dorothy’s mentioned that at least one of her parents is culturally Jewish, but given one can be Jewish while also questioning or disavowing the existence of God that doesn’t necessarily mean much about active faith.
(Judaism: Debating why, if there is a god governing the universe, bad things happen to good people for 5780 years, and coming up with at LEAST that many answers in response!)
From https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-10/04-is-a-song-forever/flaunt/ it sounds like an implied meeting offscreen the previous day. ‘Still in town’ suggests that both would be specifically aware that the Keeners had come to town (like a number of other parents) and likely met some of the rest of the kids that were involved in The Incident
Yeah, the other two sets managed to raise decent kids, but they raised… well, Mike. And while nature vs. nurture is an irresolvable debate, it still means we need a bit more information before we can really judge.
He must be pretty sure Joyce will say no 🙁 Either that or the Keeners are planning on taking them out for sushi and Joyce has inherited her food issues from him…)
Maybe he is crying due to shame and regret. Because of his and his wife’s beliefs, Joyce had to go through so much. He couldn’t stop his wife. At some point he must have loved his wife. And the relationship is now practically over.
Joyce, say yes and also go hug your dad. This is a time when he could really use one. Also I bet this is coming as an ever growing realization on Joyce’s part that her parents can be separated in things like this.
I personally was like 15 or 16 when I realized my parents were not the package deal I always thought they were. When did it happen for you?
This is a really interesting concept to me. Pretty much my whole life I’ve seen my parents as completely different people, because of the way my dad treated her, and because of how differently she treated us than how he did. So it was never really a realization for me. I initially thought this was a Joyce thing, or maybe a Christian thing, but it now makes sense that lots of people would feel the same way.
I’m 34 and still think of mine as a unit. For example, if you tell one of them something, you’re telling both of them (unless you specifically ask them not to tell each other).
They do hold similar views, but I think it’s mainly that they spend all their time together and aren’t divorced.
Same. I have this mental image of my parents screaming at each other, my mom in the doorway of our house and my dad standing in the street, holding my baby brother, and that’s one of my earliest memories, so… yeah.
As a person whose parents are still together but not great at communicating (so telling one something doesn’t mean telling the other, which can cause problems sometimes*) and whose parents often bicker with each other – I can’t recall thinking of them as a unit…
*e.g. Mum asked me if I still use the wheelchair I got for bad pelvic girdle pain whilst pregnant, as my sister was wondering if she might be able to have it if not. I don’t, and am happy for her to have it. So when the parents came over with her I assumed they were expecting to take it back with them. Dad discovered this one when I wheeled it out… In fairness, Mum had been asking him if there was room in the car for a folding table as well as a buggy, folding chairs, a large cool box, two cake boxes, three people… So it may just not have occurred to her that it might cause logistical issues 😂 But Mum and I had discussed them picking it up weeks previously! And Dad had a bit of a tizzy at being expected to find space for it on the spot.
I don’t think I ever really thought of my parents as a package deal now that I think about it. when I was a little kid, my parents would tag team looking after me and my sister – as soon as one got home the other would leave for work, so I never saw them at the same time very often. even now they don’t really do things together or share a lot of opinions on things? sometimes I wonder why they got together because even though they get along well and act loving towards each other, they have like NOTHING in common, but I guess you don’t need things in common ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
at worst their fights are like mom getting frustrated trying to talk to dad because dad trails off mid sentence a lot or thinks he’s said things out loud when he really only said it in his head
When Dad went to Vietnam, actually since he was Navy he served on Yankee Station aboard the USS Coral Sea (CVA 43) so very little actual danger for him, just 18 months away from home.
My parents always openly discussed plans and possibilities and suggested different things to each other. and sometimes disagreed. And it was always pretty clear that my father (who was pretty introverted) was putting up with some things that my mother (who was quite extraverted) was enthusiastic about, e.g. entertaining. So I don’t remember ever having the illusion that they were unanimous.
The first time I remember them having a really serious disagreement was when I was twelve. My mother did two significant things without consulting him first, one of which he would not have agreed to and the other was in breach of one of their agreements about how the family should be run. My father was noticeably terse and withdrawn for two weeks.
I’m sorry, did I write what you said?
I mean did you write what I thought?
I mean you wrote my childhood down.
One Friday after school my mom said we had to start cleaning the house, like Right Away, 35 people were coming for dinner Saturday night.
Whaaaa…….?
My parents were a package deal. My dad deferred to my mother and my mother needed someone to take care of and make decisions for. He died when I was in high school and my mom spiraled out of control for a while. I don’t think she ever really recovered. My sisters and I are… varying degrees of connected with her now. Depends on what she does and to whom to determine who is talking to her at any given moment.
Probably somewhere between five and ten. Also learned you DON’T ask one, and then go ask the other one if you don’t like the answer. Also worked out pretty quickly which parent to ask for what if I wanted to do it. There were different things each would be more likely to permit.
Some time around 12, I started getting answers like “(long pause) If your (other parent) says it’s okay.”
As a kid who was parentified into emotional support for my parents when they were on the outs with each other as young as 8, I don’t think I ever didn’t know they weren’t a package. Mine are still together somehow, which is shocking given I spent most of my childhood as the rope in an emotional tug of war between them.
Never had to, I just always saw them as individual people. It probably helped that we did a lot of separate things so it was always clear to me that different people were different. They’re still happily married.
Similar. I think there was an early childhood thinking of them as a total unit, but Dad also had to travel for work VERY frequently in the early years.
> When did it happen for you?
After conception (duh), but before I was born.
Never seen the guy, not even subconsciously, except for a photo — which made me think “damn, he looks like me when I was twenty!”
Ended up in the middle of enough arguments between them – and bounced back and forth when told to ask the other for permission for xyz – that I effectively never saw them as a unit.
I dislike this bit. Emotional burdening should flow outwards.
Joyce is the victim. Hank has been to some degree one of the guilty parties (though not as much as Carol). Now Hank’s crying out of his own guilt or whatever and as a result there’s FURTHER pressure on Joyce to accept him and forgive him. If she doesn’t, she’ll be feeling guilty and as if she’s the bad guy.
I don’t have a good solution here, and I concede that it’s not as if Hank is shedding false tears, but the reconciliation with his daughter is still more for his benefit than hers. I dislike the concept of the emotional burden of Joyce having to forgive him.
I don’t really remember ever seeing my parents as a singular unit. They both tended to do their own thing. It really wasn’t a surprise when they divorced when I was twelve.
Oooooh, hopefully Hank! I realize that, while Carol is a monster and should be kicked to the street, Hank is more likely to leave her the house and locate elsewhere. Because he is a decent person like that.
Please say yes, Joyce, please let this go well. I really need that to happen now. I’m in the hospital because my great-aunt (more like third grandmother) is dying, and I need all the good family-things I can get.
I’m so sorry. My great-aunt was very special to me, so I’m there with you.
I hope everything is as peaceful as possible and that you and your family can support and comfort each other. <3
From the time I was tiny, my great-aunt & -uncle took care of me while my parents worked opposing shifts. Losing them was equivalent to losing my parents. One right before senior photos, the other a year before my firstborn arrived.
(((Give and get as many hugs as you can. With masks!)))
“Holy dang, he is.” Both hilarious and heartbreaking.
Suddenly realizing that your partner of probably 35 years is a monster. It’s one thing to not see eye to eye, but to hear her valuing a deranged criminal asshole over your daughter, hearing her blow off the trauma daughter just suffered, to in a moment realize your marriage is over…holy dang.
I just hope that Joyce is able to somehow get herself to dip the chicken fingers into barbecue sauce like I do. They are just too bland to eat alone; they have to be consumed with SOMETHING!
I feel pretty dang near euphoric over this development tbh.
A dad crying because he f*cked up and hopes for a chance to do better is a good sign. Right??
It’s gotta be. I don’t get the feeling it’s my dad’s type of manipulative “why won’t you love me” crying after being called out on abusive behavior thing.
He’s finally admitting to himself how far down the rabbit hole goes, instead of just throwing a piece of plywood over it and pretending it’s not there.
He might be overwhelmed as well, and possibly realising everything that went wrong. Maybe even rethinking every kind of decision he now regrets – so yeah, I think it’s a good sign!
And also: internet hugs? I hope everything’s good or will be better on your end
Sympathy. But no, I don’t think he’s expecting her to see it here. I think it’s the ‘there is no reasoning with my wife, this cannot be salvaged’ combined with ‘if my community is so plainly wrong about this (especially given that it’s justified because being gay is worse than kidnapping people at gunpoint,) what else are they wrong about? What else am I wrong about that’s this obvious to outsiders?’ and ‘I have spent years of my life defending these people’, all topped with the fact that he is estranged from one child, maybe beyond repair, and is fearing he might lose a second. (And doesn’t realize, I suspect, how certain it is Jocelyne will not just support Joyce but back her play, so that he is likely to gain a more honest relationship with the two children who stay on his side. Even if she doesn’t say ‘fuck this, I’m out, and by the way? I’m a woman and have been despite your efforts to enforce Proper Gender Roles’, the only reason I can see her remaining on speaking terms with Carol is a little longer going stealth to get essentials. And I doubt Hank’s gonna leave anything big with Carol, so.)
On the other hand he does not know Jocelyn is considering leaving them once she has the resources and sort of having Joyce help her figure out who in her family might be worth keeping in her life.
Yeah, I didn’t go into it but the added tension there is that John will almost certainly be siding with Carol (even if he expresses vague disapproval for kidnapping six people, there’ll be some minimizing and excusing from him as well,) and even if he stays in contact that relationship will be… strained. And Hank doesn’t know the most important fact about Jocelyne (though I think there’s a Patreon strip that has her and Carol discussing a news site she’s been published on or something, and Carol questioning the veracity of said news, so they at least have reason to believe she’s a bit more liberal than they are,) so he doesn’t know if trying to do right by Joyce will distance him from the other two. Not a pleasant position to be in.
I think his crying supports both sides.
It makes a lot of sense for someone just who realized that his wife is horrible his community is toxic and now he might be losing his youngest daughter and he can’t really blame her to cry.
If I didn’t already like him the whole interaction with Dorothy’s parents would feel manipulative and crying in a place where everyone can see but might look like he’s trying to hide it would be the icing on the cake.
Frankly it still feels wrong for him to dump his problems on Dorothy’s parents like that.
But in a way that Joyce doesn’t appear to be insecure about, too. (Having a pretty significant food aversion/insecurity about that anxiety combo and an attack of that last night, appreciated.) Just the acknowledgement of comforting, safe food.
Also comforting because Joyce realizes her food neuroses are ridiculous and humorous and feels comfortable being teased about, and this is very Big Sister teasing.
I laugh every time when they’re breaking into Becky’s house and Joyce muses about whether food touches other food in prison.
Did I miss something that said there was going to be a time jump? I’ve seen lots of people commenting about it, but don’t know if the fear came from anywhere.
In universe, Halloween seemed like a super important date for Joyce, as well as other characters. But more so for Joyce. It’s a bit confusing that we’d blow straight past that *plus* whatever fallout happens between the Browns. At most, I can only hope for Halloween flashbacks.
It is mentioned in the Patreon on one of the posts you can read without paying for anything. It has been there since June 22. It says the current storyline will go until September 9th, afterwards there will likely be a timeskip of some degree, and it will always be Winter but Never Christmas.
There Dorothy goes ripping off the joint band-aids of “My parents really aren’t a single unit” and “Parents aren’t the emotional rock I’ve been raised to believe they are”
I’m sensing an impending major Brown family blub-fest with lots of declarations of love and some sad but resolute drawing of necessary lines in the sand.
Oh, and Carol turning up, calling Dorothy a “godless seductress” and Joyce retaliating by kissing Dotty!
Is it just me, or are the Keeners a lot younger than the other parents?
I mean, it makes sense that the Browns are older, given how many kids they have, but all the others seem a decade or so older as well. Or is it just that the Keeners sunny niceness keeps them young?
I do a fair amount of volunteering with elderly (>60 years old); people who are optimistic and good humoured do look younger than their peers who are negative and down. This is regardless of whatever ailments they may have. Mental health plays such a huge role in overall health!
I think they do seem younger. My parents had me at around 35, so most of my friends’ parents are much younger. You’re right that that’s likely the case with the Browns.
I know plenty of fundamentalist outlooks that make it so that a man cooking (for others) is both demeaning to the man [in taking up a feminine gender role] and insulting to the woman [in indicating she’s not good enough at her socially-contrived, gender-designated role]. I’m not really sure how firmly those outlooks are actually held to once behind closed doors, but I do know they exist.
That said, not seeing anything in the hover-text nor previous narrative to indicate that Hank is from that kind of background, nor that he’s never cooked for others. Conversely, given carol’s strict temperment on fundamentalism, it may be possible that she insisted on such a division herself.
Carol doesn’t seem to work, so she likely does the vast majority of the cooking.
If we stick to traditional American gender roles, Hank would have done the grilling.
Ha, true. Forgot about that exception when writing the previous post. Not entirely sure if the exception is because it’s meat [dead things and predatory elements are super manly!] or because it’s typically done outdoors [which is, uh.. less.. feminine?]. I assume both? 😛
You forgot the other aspect of it: it is an occasional chore rather than an every day one. Hank may not specifically be like this, but many men put themselves in the position to do all the ‘once in a while chores’ e.g. mowing the lawn, grilling, taking out the trash, changing lightbulbs, killing spiders. You don’t, after all, see spiders every day or grill during Winter or have to mow very much in Winter. While cooking must be done consistently all year round and so must cleaning and so must laundry.
Most of that is really a descent of the traditional division of labor – when men worked outside the house – farm labor originally and later paid employment, while women kept house and raised kids, which was a full time job of its own without modern conveniences. It wouldn’t make sense for men to go to work and also to split the household work up evenly.
Of course, in the modern world, women are expected to work full time and also take on the lion’s share of the house work, but that’s a fairly recent change and ingrained social expectations take time to adjust. Generations, usually.
The ‘fun’ aspect of this is that it only applies to HOME cooking. That is women’s work. But a restaurant chef? Of course that is a man’s job, because how could a woman ever know how to do that.
How can they defend that in America where Real Guys™️ Run the grill?
Men. Flippin’ burgers. On a grill. I bet the Israelites never let women do the burnt offerings during sacrifices. Men burning meat is natural stuff. (Cough) {end sarcasm}
You just might be on to something there. Only the (male) priests were permitted in the temple’s inner sanctum to make the burnt offerings. Fast-forward a couple of millennia and now only the (male) high priests are allowed to tend the barbecue grill. The only difference is that, over the intervening years, they have learned that the offerings from the barbecue grill are better received by their acolytes if they are NOT totally immolated.
Hank has reached his break point. Poor Hank… I hope Joyce will understand and accept the fact that her parents are on the way of divorce and her father need to be in a better situation.
The death of a marriage needs to be mourned. Mostly dead is partly alive, but this is a former marriage. Given the chance, Hank will stand up and be there for Joyce. But he needs a minute.
You are at it again.
I think I may have met The Master Poet. Do you wear a towel over your head when you write? Like ObiWan? Or just pen to paper like Bill Shakespeare?
You know, Jedi style? No uniforms for me! But like Old Kayyam, I need a glass of wine to get a roll going. The roll is for the lump of cheese, and my mate singing beside me in the wilderness..
It’s a crying shame that some1 had to clarify that. I never thought the day would come when someone would mistake Rhymin’ Simon’s lyrics for original work by another. It’s as bad as the first time I heard two youngsters talking to one another and one of them said to the other, “Did you know that Paul McCartney was in a band before ‘Wings’ ?”
Apropos of nothing, I don’t think I can answer the poll (who would win in a fight) without additional details provided. Typically this question is asked about two combatants, not seven.
What are the rules of this fight? Are we talking tournament matches in pairs or a battle royalle? Are the matches point based, knock-out based, or to the death? Do they take place in a stadium or dojo setting (ie a small featureless arena) or a larger zone with terrain for setting up ambushes?
My answer to the poll requires having all this info because each of those questions changes who, in my mind, would win. It takes different skills to win an Olympic martial arts tournament than it does to win the Hunger Games.
I would like to hear your answers for 1: A randomly seeded round-robin 1v1 tournament to knockout or submission or ring-out. Featureless arena, no outside weapons.
And 2: A free-for-all, no-holds-barred, both whatever equipment you choose to bring and makeshift weapons explicitly allowed, in an outdoor area small enough that one can’t really hide, but including some natural cover from projectiles, to knockout or submission or death.
1) Randomly seeded round robin 1v1 non-lethal tournament – I’m thinking we end up with Sal vs Amazi-Girl for the final match with odds on Amazi-Girl. In one-on-one bouts, they are the most skilled and disciplined and I see that paying off. Amber, while equally physically able, would get herself disqualified early for either unnecessary roughness or forgetting to show up for a match because she was playing a game on her phone.
2) In a free-for-all, no-holds barred, etc in an outdoor area, it would be Amber or Dina. Amber’s berserker rage would put down Sal or Amazi-Girl (unless they teamed up), but Dina is a clever girl, a master of stealth, and expert at surprise attacks, and thus uniquely suited to this sort of battle. In the end, it would be a deadly game of cat and mouse – and even odds on which one was which.
And yes, I am treating Amazi Girl and Amber as if they are two physically distinct people rather than aspects of a single individual for the purposes of this analysis.
Joyce, Sarah, and Malaya don’t have the skill or training to succeed at either extreme outside of extreme luck.
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DANGY HOLE HIS E
aww, Hank =C
But I can’t read Joyce’s expression.
I think contemplating her parent’s divorce might be too much right now. She’s overwhelmed.
But she’s ALSO feeling guilty and wants to talk to Hank on his own, but she also doesn’t, and the too emotions are playing tug-of-war with the decision-making part of the brain and turning it to taffy.
“the too emotions”
Appropriate typo is appropriate.
So appropriate it didn’t even register with me as possibly a typo until I read your response. Maybe that’s because I’ve been hanging around people who English very differently than I did back before I met them. Now I know all about verbing and stuff it’s fine out of sentences. Also because of knowing about the police are really like so there’s way too emotions these days.
Is divorce actually on the table for the Browns?
I think she’s mostly shocked at the visible crying Dorothy talks about.
Can’t decide whether it is a good or a bad thing that her parents are not currently a package deal.
I think it’s a good thing. Her Mother is plainly toxic, while the father is coming around and seeing the errors of his church and spouse. And I think Joyce needs parental support more than she realizes. Maybe, with her Dad backing her up, she can stand up to her mother and cut ties with that church.
I think Pylgrim’s saying that JOYCE can’t decide whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing.
@clif: I find Joyce’s expression rather simple to read for once. It clearly is a 4.
Sarah in the last panel reminds me of Ellie Shelstrop in The Good Place:
Holy dang, he is!
I mean, holy dang!
Why can’t I say holy dang??
Joyce: Are there…puppy dog eyes?
Sarah: He legit looks like a Precious Moments figurine.
Joyce: Dangit.
Awww, Hank!
(upvote)
Upvote.
You lost her at “Not currently a package deal” I’m afraid.
Not using the Word That Shall Not Be Spoken seems to help Joyce.
Also see: “canoodling”.
Yep. Any solace of Hank caring enough about her to stand up to Carol is going to be lost in the shattering of her ideals of marriage and the family style in which she grew up.
And possibly an unhealthy dose of “men aren’t supposed to cry.”
IMHO, any dosage of that is an unhealthy dose.
To be fair, there are definitely times when it’s not a good idea to be crying. Like if you’re driving at highway speeds, crying is definitely contraindicated. (Slow down, pull over, and stop first.) But that’s situation specific, not gender specific.
ha
Holy dang? As opposed to an unholy dang?
Danged by the Quitemighty Gosh.
‘Holy Dang’ is, I guess, kind of an oxymoron, while ‘Unholy Dang’ is, in opposition, a redundant statement. Doubling Down on ‘Dang’, so to speak.
Oxymoronic? Dangs can be holy, provided they’re consecrated. And I understand there is a booming market in secondary relics, many of which are “Gall Dang!”s.
Dang isn’t actually damn though, even though it clearly replaces Damn, so it’s NOT an oxymoron in the same way that holy damn would be.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PewdiepieSubmissions/comments/fy5bne/i_present_the_holy_dam/
Nuff said.
Except that ‘dang’ and ‘darn’ for that matter, originated explicitly as an intentional euphemism for ‘damn’ that could be used in public during an era where public swearing was an enforceable legally punishable offense. The meaning is still explicitly the same for all three meaning that any of the constructs “holy damn”, “holy darn” or “holy dang” is equally oxymoronic.
To the contrary: since “damn” refers to condemnation; specifically, Holy God‘s condemnation, technically all damns that are God-damns are holy. The damned are not holy, but the damner presumably is.
Now, it might not be the case that the damn is holy if it comes from other humans (damnatio memoriae). If the unholy damn led to Holy God damning the (human) damner, that would be one damn thing after another.
But working off that premise, any “damn” would be an act of taking the lord’s name [or rather, damnations] in vain. Hence we’re back to darn and dang being preferrable? 😛
What about Drat? And Dern? Should we make a hierarchy of dern, darn, dang, and drat,…. uh, what about egad?
It’s a Minced oath. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minced_oath
Zounds. Jimmy Cricket. Probably as old as language.
No one knows what it’s like
To be the bad Hank
To be the sad Hank
BEHIND BLUE EYES
Thank you. I was about to play a KFC jingle.
+1
Now I have to go listen to the song, thanks.
OH yes. You got it.
Though my morals aren’t as empty,
As Carole’s seem to be.
I‘ll have lawyers, billing hours,
I’m Divorcing Carole, I will be free-eeee
When Blaine’s hammer cracked Toedad open
Before they lost Joyce to that tool,
Amber saw her dad with AG’s eyes.
Send Mike 5 cents & your mom, ya fools
And knowing Carole’s feeling evil
She’ll blame Dorothy’s mom & gloat
Taking her husband & child out for dinner,
That’s the last straw, folks. That’s all she wrote.
Masterfully done. Well done. +3 internets
Honestly, this made my morning, I could hear the band singing this in my head!
(I mean, I had a lousy week, but this would’ve made me chuckle anyway)
Yeah, it’s been a rough morning.
The day isn’t over yet.
The day will end sometime around October, calling it now.
Can we end 2020 then, too?
He could use the afternoon off.
Hank 🙁
ALL the feels.
God, with those baby blues he must look like a kicked puppy. No wonder the Keeners were powerless in the face of that. (Not that I think it’s intentional on Hank’s part, just. Those big, sad eyes.)
Y’know, I just realized that the ‘good’ parts of the Browns all have blue eyes, while John inherited Carol’s hard, angry black eyes.
That’s very interesting.
Wonder what it’d mean if Jordan has brown eyes… or heterochromia. That would be weird.
Remember, irises are a sign of character depth, not genetics. I bet Carol and John have blue eyes, too—we just don’t see them, like we used to not see Ruth’s green eyes.
Why would Carol necessarily have blue eyes? It’s not like marrying Hank would change her eye colour.
The joke/reference was to how Ruth originally had black dot eyes, and after a Dramatic Conversation Offering Vulnerability (and Willis realizing they’d changed her eyes to green later in the Walkyverse) they shifted to green, synbolizing how Billie (and the readers) now see her hidden depths. Ergo, a moment like that for Carol and John could be possible…
But uh. Sure as hell not probable! Nah, I think they do actually have brown eyes rendered as black dots.
Carol’s unhidden depths are enough of an abyss as it is.
I’m guessing Jordan has blue eyes.
Carol’s and Hank’s conversation about “squeezing too hard” or “not hard enough” makes me think he couldn’t take the authoritarian control freak rules and told them to stuff it.
The fact that they are keeping Joyce away from him and won’t tell her why sounds like they’re basically shunning him, which I can’t see them doing if he’d gotten more extreme than them.
Maybe he’s an Atheist.
I feel like that depends on the manner in which he ‘got more extreme than them’. For example there was a specific religious group with a number of associated churches I remember reading about maybe a decade back that explicitly mixed white supremacist elements into evangelical Christianity as part of their religious views. I feel like that would be a step too far for all the members we’ve met of the Brown family, no matter how shitty some of them may be.
Christian Identity, maybe?
I’ve long joked he got too religiously extreme for them, but I doubt that’s really the case.
It’s not clear how much they’re keeping him from Joyce vs how much he’s distancing himself from the whole family. Wonder if Jocelyne’s been in touch with him?
I think Willis mentioned somewhere that he gave the kids in the Brown-family the eyes of the parent of different gender. So the girls gets eyes like dad and the boys gets eyes like mom. If that is true and something he keeps up, I’m assuming Jordan will have eyes like Carol.
Interesting. So if they’d been paying attention, they’d already know about Jocelyn.
Now I wanna see a character with heterochromia in IU.
Jordan pending!
Iirc, all the kids in this comic have the facial shape of their same-gendered parent, and the eyes of their other-gendered parent.
(So the big baby blues were a hint about Jocelyn.)
Which is impressive, given Willis has said they didn’t realize Jocelyne was trans immediately. Maybe it was subconscious? Or maybe it’s a coincidence.
Boy, Joe’s mom must be kinda terrifying.
Hah. I misremembered — it’s generally eyes of the opposite-gender parent, and hair of the same-gender parent.
You can see it with Dorothy’s blonde hair, like her dad.
(Not always exactly so, just generally. With the Walkertons, both parents have the same dot-eyes, and dad’s dark hair colour is dominant, but we’ve still got it with Sal’s hair texture battle.)
Joe and Ethan are still shaved copies of their dads, because it’s funny.
I read somewhere that Willis tends to design daughters with the eyes of their dad and the hair of their mom, and sons with the eyes of their mom and the hair of their dads, something like that? It seems to hold up for the eyes, at least as far as I can remember, and it certainly is true for the Browns. Joyce and Jocylene get Hank’s baby blues, and John gets the dot eyes.
Well shit, when I first loaded this page, 37 other people hadn’t beaten me to that fun fact, yet. Shoulda reloaded before posting.
…Is Deborah the first parent we’ve seen to actually ask for their kid’s input?
(Meanwhile)
Linda: So David, is what happened yesterday Sal’s fault, or only mostly Sal’s fault?
Was trying to work out the same thing.
And is also cognizant that Joyce’s feelings on the matter are also important!
Not only that, but the first parent to /listen/ to their child.
Hank listened to Joyce about her having an atheist friend, and trusted that Becky was still good people since Joyce did. If anything, he’s first.
The Keeners might have had a moment back at Freshman Family Weekend involving the Walkerton lunch, but I don’t remember offhand. Other than that… Hank might have, the last big Weekend of Uncomfortable Revelations About Family. The only other definitely good and definitely not ‘complete clash of personalities’ (ie, the Warners) parents who we’ve seen with any real interaction with their kid were the Saruyamas, and though we only had Dina’s side of that phone call it seemed more like a ‘wonderful for you! We’ll give you date money!’ sort of thing rather than asking. (Though ‘here, we’ll treat you to take your girlfriend somewhere nice sometime’ is one of those things that doesn’t really need input if the parents are actually treating you instead of later leverage or the like.)
Though Leslie did ask Becky if she wanted to stay with her again or get a ride back to Becky’s apartment before offering to buy breakfast forever. (The breakfast was after the previous offer was refused, but given how Leslie was offering it in a ‘I am so worried about you but respect your agency’ way I suspect she’d have been concerned but fine if Becky had turned it down as well.) So we do have at least one prior instance of Lesbian Mom asking.
Well, they are atheists, so they can’t ask their God what Dorothy is allowed to think. Actually, I don’t even quite remember whether they were, or whether they rather decided Dorothy be allowed to choose her faith when she was ready.
They raised Dorothy areligiously so she could come to her own conclusion. I’m pretty sure by them saying they are Godless, they are also atheists though.
As I recall, Dorothy’s mentioned that at least one of her parents is culturally Jewish, but given one can be Jewish while also questioning or disavowing the existence of God that doesn’t necessarily mean much about active faith.
(Judaism: Debating why, if there is a god governing the universe, bad things happen to good people for 5780 years, and coming up with at LEAST that many answers in response!)
Holy dang, he is.
Should I be laughing right now? I’m kinda cracking up
Wait, the Keeners have met Sarah before?
Didn’t they meet Sarah the last time they were here? I could be wrong but I thought they did, I can’t tell you what strip though.
Tag search says no.
From https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-10/04-is-a-song-forever/flaunt/ it sounds like an implied meeting offscreen the previous day. ‘Still in town’ suggests that both would be specifically aware that the Keeners had come to town (like a number of other parents) and likely met some of the rest of the kids that were involved in The Incident
someone go hug hank
That is much funnier than it has any right to be XD
I laughed out loud and almost feel bad but somehow it just hits me as hilarious
SUFFAH, HANK!
(deep, deep, deep cut riff source)
I love the Keeners. They are just so…decent?? Emotionally mature and responsible??? What is this!?!
Dorothy raised them well.
Their pleasantness – and those of a few other parents – counteracts the crappiness of the other parents.
I’m pretty sure the Keeners and Dina’s parents might be competing for best DoA parents.
How about Mike’s?
Not enough data points yet.
Yeah, the other two sets managed to raise decent kids, but they raised… well, Mike. And while nature vs. nurture is an irresolvable debate, it still means we need a bit more information before we can really judge.
Damn. I don’t blame Joyce if she cannot handle this right now, but it’s rough.
Ya.. he’s cooking meals in the hallway now.. but really it’s sad
He must be pretty sure Joyce will say no 🙁 Either that or the Keeners are planning on taking them out for sushi and Joyce has inherited her food issues from him…)
Maybe he is crying due to shame and regret. Because of his and his wife’s beliefs, Joyce had to go through so much. He couldn’t stop his wife. At some point he must have loved his wife. And the relationship is now practically over.
Holy Dang.
The D-I-V-O-R-C-E just became apparent today.
Presumably the Tammi Wynette version, and not the hilariously low brow Billy Connolly version. 🙂
Well now I’m definitely picturing the Billy Connolly version!
Goin’ to the big D, and he don’t mean Dallas.
Joyce, say yes and also go hug your dad. This is a time when he could really use one. Also I bet this is coming as an ever growing realization on Joyce’s part that her parents can be separated in things like this.
I personally was like 15 or 16 when I realized my parents were not the package deal I always thought they were. When did it happen for you?
This is a really interesting concept to me. Pretty much my whole life I’ve seen my parents as completely different people, because of the way my dad treated her, and because of how differently she treated us than how he did. So it was never really a realization for me. I initially thought this was a Joyce thing, or maybe a Christian thing, but it now makes sense that lots of people would feel the same way.
college <_<
I’m 34 and still think of mine as a unit. For example, if you tell one of them something, you’re telling both of them (unless you specifically ask them not to tell each other).
They do hold similar views, but I think it’s mainly that they spend all their time together and aren’t divorced.
also, sorry about your parents, Willis.
If you would like to share, I’m very curious what it’s like to write/draw something so close to home. Difficult? Cathartic? Super duper both?
As a person whose parents split up when I was a preschooler the concept of parents as a unit is bizarre and interesting to me.
Ditto, except mine separated before I can remember (6 months old).
Same. I have this mental image of my parents screaming at each other, my mom in the doorway of our house and my dad standing in the street, holding my baby brother, and that’s one of my earliest memories, so… yeah.
As a person whose parents are still together but not great at communicating (so telling one something doesn’t mean telling the other, which can cause problems sometimes*) and whose parents often bicker with each other – I can’t recall thinking of them as a unit…
*e.g. Mum asked me if I still use the wheelchair I got for bad pelvic girdle pain whilst pregnant, as my sister was wondering if she might be able to have it if not. I don’t, and am happy for her to have it. So when the parents came over with her I assumed they were expecting to take it back with them. Dad discovered this one when I wheeled it out… In fairness, Mum had been asking him if there was room in the car for a folding table as well as a buggy, folding chairs, a large cool box, two cake boxes, three people… So it may just not have occurred to her that it might cause logistical issues 😂 But Mum and I had discussed them picking it up weeks previously! And Dad had a bit of a tizzy at being expected to find space for it on the spot.
I don’t think I ever really thought of my parents as a package deal now that I think about it. when I was a little kid, my parents would tag team looking after me and my sister – as soon as one got home the other would leave for work, so I never saw them at the same time very often. even now they don’t really do things together or share a lot of opinions on things? sometimes I wonder why they got together because even though they get along well and act loving towards each other, they have like NOTHING in common, but I guess you don’t need things in common ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
at worst their fights are like mom getting frustrated trying to talk to dad because dad trails off mid sentence a lot or thinks he’s said things out loud when he really only said it in his head
When Dad went to Vietnam, actually since he was Navy he served on Yankee Station aboard the USS Coral Sea (CVA 43) so very little actual danger for him, just 18 months away from home.
My parents always openly discussed plans and possibilities and suggested different things to each other. and sometimes disagreed. And it was always pretty clear that my father (who was pretty introverted) was putting up with some things that my mother (who was quite extraverted) was enthusiastic about, e.g. entertaining. So I don’t remember ever having the illusion that they were unanimous.
The first time I remember them having a really serious disagreement was when I was twelve. My mother did two significant things without consulting him first, one of which he would not have agreed to and the other was in breach of one of their agreements about how the family should be run. My father was noticeably terse and withdrawn for two weeks.
I’m sorry, did I write what you said?
I mean did you write what I thought?
I mean you wrote my childhood down.
One Friday after school my mom said we had to start cleaning the house, like Right Away, 35 people were coming for dinner Saturday night.
Whaaaa…….?
My parents were a package deal. My dad deferred to my mother and my mother needed someone to take care of and make decisions for. He died when I was in high school and my mom spiraled out of control for a while. I don’t think she ever really recovered. My sisters and I are… varying degrees of connected with her now. Depends on what she does and to whom to determine who is talking to her at any given moment.
Probably somewhere between five and ten. Also learned you DON’T ask one, and then go ask the other one if you don’t like the answer. Also worked out pretty quickly which parent to ask for what if I wanted to do it. There were different things each would be more likely to permit.
Some time around 12, I started getting answers like “(long pause) If your (other parent) says it’s okay.”
My parents were never a package deal, even before they separated. (to be honest I don’t even know why they got together in the first place.)
I was 5 when my parents split up and it wasn’t over something as over the top like this.
As a kid who was parentified into emotional support for my parents when they were on the outs with each other as young as 8, I don’t think I ever didn’t know they weren’t a package. Mine are still together somehow, which is shocking given I spent most of my childhood as the rope in an emotional tug of war between them.
Never had to, I just always saw them as individual people. It probably helped that we did a lot of separate things so it was always clear to me that different people were different. They’re still happily married.
Similar. I think there was an early childhood thinking of them as a total unit, but Dad also had to travel for work VERY frequently in the early years.
> When did it happen for you?
After conception (duh), but before I was born.
Never seen the guy, not even subconsciously, except for a photo — which made me think “damn, he looks like me when I was twenty!”
Ended up in the middle of enough arguments between them – and bounced back and forth when told to ask the other for permission for xyz – that I effectively never saw them as a unit.
“And also go hug your dad”.
I dislike this bit. Emotional burdening should flow outwards.
Joyce is the victim. Hank has been to some degree one of the guilty parties (though not as much as Carol). Now Hank’s crying out of his own guilt or whatever and as a result there’s FURTHER pressure on Joyce to accept him and forgive him. If she doesn’t, she’ll be feeling guilty and as if she’s the bad guy.
I don’t have a good solution here, and I concede that it’s not as if Hank is shedding false tears, but the reconciliation with his daughter is still more for his benefit than hers. I dislike the concept of the emotional burden of Joyce having to forgive him.
I don’t really remember ever seeing my parents as a singular unit. They both tended to do their own thing. It really wasn’t a surprise when they divorced when I was twelve.
Man, it sucks that everyone in the Brown family is having an acutely bad time when only one of them deserves it.
At least two. John is also terrible.
Yeah, but he is probably having a great time in India >:(
Missionaries are the ultimate Karens.
Let’s talk about the most important thing.
Who gets the dog in the divorce?
Hopefully Hank so that Joyce can still come to see the dog.
Oooooh, hopefully Hank! I realize that, while Carol is a monster and should be kicked to the street, Hank is more likely to leave her the house and locate elsewhere. Because he is a decent person like that.
And because that way she can sell the house and give the proceeds to the horrible church
Toedead’s bail is the Dumbiverse equivalent to the church racking up debt building an addition? Makes sense.
Holy Dang? Did Sarah get a vocabulary transplant?
Probably a combo of not wanting to upset Joyce and being around parents she doesn’t want to offend.
I’m actually amazed Sarah WANTS to spend time around Dorothy’s parents… given how anti-social she claims to be.
Free food!
Or, “Pity meal? I’m in.” https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-10/04-is-a-song-forever/flaunt/
She wasn’t exactly untraumatized either. It’s likely she doesn’t want to be alone, and likelier that she wants to stick protectively close to Joyce.
joyce.exe has encountered an error and must close.
Yes yes Joyce’s dad is bawling his eyes out behind the glass but Sarah making a sisterly joke is the REAL highlight of this strip
Quick question: have I missed anything about Sarah’s family? I meam, she got kidnapped and threatened too, I’d assume SOMEONE would show up.
They did!
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-10/04-is-a-song-forever/separated/
Please say yes, Joyce, please let this go well. I really need that to happen now. I’m in the hospital because my great-aunt (more like third grandmother) is dying, and I need all the good family-things I can get.
I’m so sorry. My great-aunt was very special to me, so I’m there with you.
I hope everything is as peaceful as possible and that you and your family can support and comfort each other. <3
Nenja, I’m sorry.
From the time I was tiny, my great-aunt & -uncle took care of me while my parents worked opposing shifts. Losing them was equivalent to losing my parents. One right before senior photos, the other a year before my firstborn arrived.
(((Give and get as many hugs as you can. With masks!)))
*Internet stranger hugs if wanted*. I’m sorry
My “bonus grandma” died last year.
All my hugs. You’ll get through. You still have her love. ❤️❤️❤️
I’m really sorry and hope she isn’t suffering 🙁
Sympathy. Went through something similar last year, and it sucks.
Thank you, everyone. I needed every bit of good things I could today, and you comments helped.
“Holy dang, he is.” Both hilarious and heartbreaking.
Suddenly realizing that your partner of probably 35 years is a monster. It’s one thing to not see eye to eye, but to hear her valuing a deranged criminal asshole over your daughter, hearing her blow off the trauma daughter just suffered, to in a moment realize your marriage is over…holy dang.
This.
And also knowing your daughter has worked out your wife, her mother, feels this way *and thinks that you may do too*…
Dumbing of Age Book 10: Crying in the Hallway
Or…
Dumbing of Age Book 10: Not Currently a Package Deal
Dumbing of Age Book 10: Holy Dang, He Is
Your parents are clearly not a unit, Joyce. I just hope Carol doesn’t chase down Joyce.
What’s she going to do kidnap her at gun point?
I know you’re being sarcastic but I actually imagined that for a moment. Carol isn’t that crazy right?
I don’t think it will be like that, but I think Carol is definitely going to both physically assault her daughter as well as make a scene.
I get the feeling she sided with Ross because she would do the same…
Carol may make an appearance and her conduct may be the last straw on several camels’ backs.
I hope the camels kick her into the next county.
Dry your tears, Hank. You’re about to embark on a heart-to-heart conversation with Joyce over some plainly-breaded chicken fingers.
I just hope that Joyce is able to somehow get herself to dip the chicken fingers into barbecue sauce like I do. They are just too bland to eat alone; they have to be consumed with SOMETHING!
I feel pretty dang near euphoric over this development tbh.
A dad crying because he f*cked up and hopes for a chance to do better is a good sign. Right??
It’s gotta be. I don’t get the feeling it’s my dad’s type of manipulative “why won’t you love me” crying after being called out on abusive behavior thing.
I think he’s also crying because he’s realizing he pretty much wasted a large chunk of his life on Carol and fundamentalism.
He’s finally admitting to himself how far down the rabbit hole goes, instead of just throwing a piece of plywood over it and pretending it’s not there.
Dang, that hurts to read it.
I’m sorry, I’m wishing you healing and support.
Thank you <3
He might be overwhelmed as well, and possibly realising everything that went wrong. Maybe even rethinking every kind of decision he now regrets – so yeah, I think it’s a good sign!
And also: internet hugs? I hope everything’s good or will be better on your end
Sympathy. But no, I don’t think he’s expecting her to see it here. I think it’s the ‘there is no reasoning with my wife, this cannot be salvaged’ combined with ‘if my community is so plainly wrong about this (especially given that it’s justified because being gay is worse than kidnapping people at gunpoint,) what else are they wrong about? What else am I wrong about that’s this obvious to outsiders?’ and ‘I have spent years of my life defending these people’, all topped with the fact that he is estranged from one child, maybe beyond repair, and is fearing he might lose a second. (And doesn’t realize, I suspect, how certain it is Jocelyne will not just support Joyce but back her play, so that he is likely to gain a more honest relationship with the two children who stay on his side. Even if she doesn’t say ‘fuck this, I’m out, and by the way? I’m a woman and have been despite your efforts to enforce Proper Gender Roles’, the only reason I can see her remaining on speaking terms with Carol is a little longer going stealth to get essentials. And I doubt Hank’s gonna leave anything big with Carol, so.)
On the other hand he does not know Jocelyn is considering leaving them once she has the resources and sort of having Joyce help her figure out who in her family might be worth keeping in her life.
Yeah, I didn’t go into it but the added tension there is that John will almost certainly be siding with Carol (even if he expresses vague disapproval for kidnapping six people, there’ll be some minimizing and excusing from him as well,) and even if he stays in contact that relationship will be… strained. And Hank doesn’t know the most important fact about Jocelyne (though I think there’s a Patreon strip that has her and Carol discussing a news site she’s been published on or something, and Carol questioning the veracity of said news, so they at least have reason to believe she’s a bit more liberal than they are,) so he doesn’t know if trying to do right by Joyce will distance him from the other two. Not a pleasant position to be in.
I so appreciate your comments and the thought behind them, Regalli!
Aw, thanks! I try.
Your dad is my grandmother? Dang, she got around.
I think his crying supports both sides.
It makes a lot of sense for someone just who realized that his wife is horrible his community is toxic and now he might be losing his youngest daughter and he can’t really blame her to cry.
If I didn’t already like him the whole interaction with Dorothy’s parents would feel manipulative and crying in a place where everyone can see but might look like he’s trying to hide it would be the icing on the cake.
Frankly it still feels wrong for him to dump his problems on Dorothy’s parents like that.
I want Joyce to say yes but I am really glad she is allowed to say no.
YES
Beautifully put.
It makes me realize that *Hank* gave her the chance to say no.
In a socially awkward situation Sarah opens with funny Joyce-food-stories.
Classic Sarah.
But in a way that Joyce doesn’t appear to be insecure about, too. (Having a pretty significant food aversion/insecurity about that anxiety combo and an attack of that last night, appreciated.) Just the acknowledgement of comforting, safe food.
Also comforting because Joyce realizes her food neuroses are ridiculous and humorous and feels comfortable being teased about, and this is very Big Sister teasing.
I laugh every time when they’re breaking into Becky’s house and Joyce muses about whether food touches other food in prison.
Hank, there’s a time and a place to level Culinarian.
Seems like the not-aggro Keeners decided to put themselves in a potentially very sticky situation by doing the right thing.
Dorothy obviously got at least some of it from her parents.
David, don’t you dare do a time jump and deprive me i mean sarah of halloween.
I KNOW, RIGHT! I want to have a costume episode so bad.
Why would you do entire Halloween Prep segments only to TAKE IT FROM US?
Daaaaaaamn you Wiiiiiiiiliiiiiiis!
Did I miss something that said there was going to be a time jump? I’ve seen lots of people commenting about it, but don’t know if the fear came from anywhere.
Me too!
The preview images are in full-tilt winter and everyone’s hair is longer/poofier.
In universe, Halloween seemed like a super important date for Joyce, as well as other characters. But more so for Joyce. It’s a bit confusing that we’d blow straight past that *plus* whatever fallout happens between the Browns. At most, I can only hope for Halloween flashbacks.
It is mentioned in the Patreon on one of the posts you can read without paying for anything. It has been there since June 22. It says the current storyline will go until September 9th, afterwards there will likely be a timeskip of some degree, and it will always be Winter but Never Christmas.
We’re going to Narnia?
I know this probably isn’t appropriate given the scenario but I had to give that last panel a “goddamn!”
Holy dang. Joyce, please give your poor dad a hug.
And Hank, give your poor daughter a hug. I suspect she’s keeping it together with bailing wire and spit.
Wait, I just woke up. Was my face wet before I started reading this strip? I actually don’t know.
There Dorothy goes ripping off the joint band-aids of “My parents really aren’t a single unit” and “Parents aren’t the emotional rock I’ve been raised to believe they are”
I’m sensing an impending major Brown family blub-fest with lots of declarations of love and some sad but resolute drawing of necessary lines in the sand.
Oh, and Carol turning up, calling Dorothy a “godless seductress” and Joyce retaliating by kissing Dotty!
“Godless seductress”?
To be fair, that sorta tracks:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/05-saturdays-all-right-for-slighting/dispute/
…the moment Becky comes around the corner, of course, because that’s the way her life works.
And there was much Internal Screaming!
Hank continues to be best dad. ;_;
Decent, pretty up there dad*
No complaints, would allow to be dad
Is it just me, or are the Keeners a lot younger than the other parents?
I mean, it makes sense that the Browns are older, given how many kids they have, but all the others seem a decade or so older as well. Or is it just that the Keeners sunny niceness keeps them young?
I’d go with the latter, especially her dad, a word I’d use to describe him is “squishy”.
“Bathing in the blood of Christian babies keeps them young!” — Carol
It supposedly worked for Elizabeth Bathory.
I do a fair amount of volunteering with elderly (>60 years old); people who are optimistic and good humoured do look younger than their peers who are negative and down. This is regardless of whatever ailments they may have. Mental health plays such a huge role in overall health!
I actually think her dad looks older – he’s going really gray.
I think they do seem younger. My parents had me at around 35, so most of my friends’ parents are much younger. You’re right that that’s likely the case with the Browns.
Aw, Hank… 🙁
You can’t tell me Hank never cooked for the family, they have what, four kids? Five? I’m pretty sure it was four, but I could be wrong.
I know plenty of fundamentalist outlooks that make it so that a man cooking (for others) is both demeaning to the man [in taking up a feminine gender role] and insulting to the woman [in indicating she’s not good enough at her socially-contrived, gender-designated role]. I’m not really sure how firmly those outlooks are actually held to once behind closed doors, but I do know they exist.
That said, not seeing anything in the hover-text nor previous narrative to indicate that Hank is from that kind of background, nor that he’s never cooked for others. Conversely, given carol’s strict temperment on fundamentalism, it may be possible that she insisted on such a division herself.
Carol doesn’t seem to work, so she likely does the vast majority of the cooking.
If we stick to traditional American gender roles, Hank would have done the grilling.
Ha, true. Forgot about that exception when writing the previous post. Not entirely sure if the exception is because it’s meat [dead things and predatory elements are super manly!] or because it’s typically done outdoors [which is, uh.. less.. feminine?]. I assume both? 😛
Cultural tradition is weird.
I wonder how widespread that is. American? English? European in general?
You forgot the other aspect of it: it is an occasional chore rather than an every day one. Hank may not specifically be like this, but many men put themselves in the position to do all the ‘once in a while chores’ e.g. mowing the lawn, grilling, taking out the trash, changing lightbulbs, killing spiders. You don’t, after all, see spiders every day or grill during Winter or have to mow very much in Winter. While cooking must be done consistently all year round and so must cleaning and so must laundry.
Most of that is really a descent of the traditional division of labor – when men worked outside the house – farm labor originally and later paid employment, while women kept house and raised kids, which was a full time job of its own without modern conveniences. It wouldn’t make sense for men to go to work and also to split the household work up evenly.
Of course, in the modern world, women are expected to work full time and also take on the lion’s share of the house work, but that’s a fairly recent change and ingrained social expectations take time to adjust. Generations, usually.
The ‘fun’ aspect of this is that it only applies to HOME cooking. That is women’s work. But a restaurant chef? Of course that is a man’s job, because how could a woman ever know how to do that.
As the saying goes, there are only two things on this Earth that men are unequivocally, inarguably superior at to women: cooking and sewing dresses.
How can they defend that in America where Real Guys™️ Run the grill?
Men. Flippin’ burgers. On a grill. I bet the Israelites never let women do the burnt offerings during sacrifices. Men burning meat is natural stuff. (Cough) {end sarcasm}
You just might be on to something there. Only the (male) priests were permitted in the temple’s inner sanctum to make the burnt offerings. Fast-forward a couple of millennia and now only the (male) high priests are allowed to tend the barbecue grill. The only difference is that, over the intervening years, they have learned that the offerings from the barbecue grill are better received by their acolytes if they are NOT totally immolated.
I think Joyce just got a Blue Screen of Death. Someone better reset her.
Hank has reached his break point. Poor Hank… I hope Joyce will understand and accept the fact that her parents are on the way of divorce and her father need to be in a better situation.
Having your child estranged is a terrible thing to experience. I give credit to Hank for not buckling down on his mistake the second time.
I don’t know why. but I first read the last clause of Dorothy’s last statement in this strip as “crying softly in the hallway.”
I love the amount of “if” clauses Dorothy manages to pack into one sentence – but still goes all the way to make a really risky suggestion.
Doing the right thing, even if it’s hard, but in a nice and consierate way. That is why Dorothy is the best.
Tip-toeing her way through an emotional mine field.
After these two strips, I guess we really should have seen this coming:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-10/04-is-a-song-forever/unit-2/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-10/04-is-a-song-forever/notmarried/
Yep. Sarah jinxed it by saying the d-word.
More foreshadowing than jinxing. Or not even that, more like naming the elephant in the room.
The death of a marriage needs to be mourned. Mostly dead is partly alive, but this is a former marriage. Given the chance, Hank will stand up and be there for Joyce. But he needs a minute.
#IAmHank
No I would not give you false hope
On this strange and mournful day
But the father and child reunion
Is only a motion away
You are at it again.
I think I may have met The Master Poet. Do you wear a towel over your head when you write? Like ObiWan? Or just pen to paper like Bill Shakespeare?
You know, Jedi style? No uniforms for me! But like Old Kayyam, I need a glass of wine to get a roll going. The roll is for the lump of cheese, and my mate singing beside me in the wilderness..
Yeah, elebenty didn’t write that. It’s a Paul Simon song. With mother normally replacing father.
It’s a crying shame that some1 had to clarify that. I never thought the day would come when someone would mistake Rhymin’ Simon’s lyrics for original work by another. It’s as bad as the first time I heard two youngsters talking to one another and one of them said to the other, “Did you know that Paul McCartney was in a band before ‘Wings’ ?”
I’m ready, Jesus, take me now.
Oh no, a sad dad. Thats bad :C
Apropos of nothing, I don’t think I can answer the poll (who would win in a fight) without additional details provided. Typically this question is asked about two combatants, not seven.
What are the rules of this fight? Are we talking tournament matches in pairs or a battle royalle? Are the matches point based, knock-out based, or to the death? Do they take place in a stadium or dojo setting (ie a small featureless arena) or a larger zone with terrain for setting up ambushes?
My answer to the poll requires having all this info because each of those questions changes who, in my mind, would win. It takes different skills to win an Olympic martial arts tournament than it does to win the Hunger Games.
I would like to hear your answers for 1: A randomly seeded round-robin 1v1 tournament to knockout or submission or ring-out. Featureless arena, no outside weapons.
And 2: A free-for-all, no-holds-barred, both whatever equipment you choose to bring and makeshift weapons explicitly allowed, in an outdoor area small enough that one can’t really hide, but including some natural cover from projectiles, to knockout or submission or death.
The most interesting part of either will be the Amber vs Amazi-Girl finale.
Fair enough.
1) Randomly seeded round robin 1v1 non-lethal tournament – I’m thinking we end up with Sal vs Amazi-Girl for the final match with odds on Amazi-Girl. In one-on-one bouts, they are the most skilled and disciplined and I see that paying off. Amber, while equally physically able, would get herself disqualified early for either unnecessary roughness or forgetting to show up for a match because she was playing a game on her phone.
2) In a free-for-all, no-holds barred, etc in an outdoor area, it would be Amber or Dina. Amber’s berserker rage would put down Sal or Amazi-Girl (unless they teamed up), but Dina is a clever girl, a master of stealth, and expert at surprise attacks, and thus uniquely suited to this sort of battle. In the end, it would be a deadly game of cat and mouse – and even odds on which one was which.
And yes, I am treating Amazi Girl and Amber as if they are two physically distinct people rather than aspects of a single individual for the purposes of this analysis.
Joyce, Sarah, and Malaya don’t have the skill or training to succeed at either extreme outside of extreme luck.
Separate your parents like your food, Dorothy!
HE’S THE BEST DAD