Hell, I have trouble remembering that some regular commenters who use the standard gravatars aren’t the one they used last/having to check when I associate one person with a particular one. (Especially with all the blonde characters in the standard rotation!)
this is 100% legit. I once met up with someone offline and kept saying to myself “you didn’t actually think she was a hedgehog. I know you didn’t. why are you having trouble with recognizing her as a human.”
Oh no, was completely selected at random. I’m a 35 year old Irish-white dude in the Pacific Northwest. I have no idea how to change it. I think mine’s a dark skinned lady, but it’s been a while.
I totally get this – I remember a moment I had, seeing myself in the reflection of a subway car window in Germany (the car was full of other people as well), and thinking, “Oh right, I’m Asian!”
I’ve had some similar stuff in the opposite direction. I grew up in an area with a large Hispanic and Native American population so that’s normalised for me and it honestly wasn’t until I was about 25 that I thought back to my youth and realized “huh, maybe the folks named Salgado and Montaño weren’t white.”
This is funny to me, because I am Jewish but look normal WASP. I have, despite looking like a typical white dude, been subjected to nearly ceaseless racism from rich white christian assholes. NEVER judge people’s life experience without context.
Fuckin relatable. It wasn’t until I left my highschool full of other mixed kids that I actually acknowledged my race as a thing, especially when I was the only mixed one in class at my next school. So trippy
I think it’s because his parents keep acting like he’s white. It’s been heavily implied that Sal and Walky’s mom is a Lovecraft (i.e. married a person of marginalized status in order to own them).
Howard Phillips Lovecraft, the horror writer, was a racist, venomous anti-Semite, and explicit admirer of Hitler who married a jewish woman (“but very well integrated”): Sonia Greene.
Lot of options for lawyers that don’t involve dealing with the police! She might also draw a distinction between ‘managing to maintain a reasonably civil adversarial relationship’ and ‘wanting to bring the inherently-escalating SWAT team into a situation where she’s defenseless, given general police track records on this subject.’
The cops won’t see “Future Lawyer” tattooed on her head when they bust in, adrenaline pumping. Just cause someone wants to work in law doesn’t mean they wanna interact with the police outside of work.
I feel like Sarah would love to join the cast of the GOOD FIGHT where they sue the policy on a near-constant basis. I’m not joking, that’s the mandate of their firm.
…yeah, I’ve got a cousin who’s a lawyer, who works as something like a public defender.
Whenever I see her, the conversation tends to drift towards the horribly fucked up bullshit spewed by government authorities, usually cops, spew in order to get her clients convicted.
She doesn’t drink alcohol. I don’t think I could abstain if I were in her position.
Also a valid concern for Sarah and Walky in particular!
And oh, Ross, I think you actually believe what you’re saying right now and like FUCK is that Blaine’s plan. You really are Wile E. Coyote sawing off your own cliff right now, dude.
I’d bet Ross doesn’t know what Blaine’s plan is, and that Blaine doesn’t care whether Ross knows what Blaine’s plan is, because Blaine sees Ross and Becky as game pieces in his plan, which is all about Amazi-Girl. What I don’t see is how Ross managed to even come near the thought that Amber is Amazi-Girl.
Ross should care its not blaines plan, but ross remains unaware – due to having his head so far up his ass – that Blaine does not share his intentions and he’s not just going to get becky and leave… or that blaine couldn’t give a shit about what ross wants other than saying what he needs to get ross to be his thug
hell, you know who might makes a great fallguy for these missing kids? the gunhappy religeous extremist who already tried to shoot the place up before
And before it gets forgotten, back on the 1st, Hiveworks was taking webcomics Tea Party, and that sent me to brainstorm Dumbingverse Wonderland:
* at least five candidates for Alice: Joyce, Dorothy, Becky, Lucy and Leslie
* and then there are the Duchess, the Knave, the Gryphon and the Mock Turtle. Whoever you don’t choose for Alice can fill these roles
* Mike as the Mad Hatter
* Ruth as the Queen of Hearts
* Walky as the Dormouse
* Robin as the White Rabbit
* Ethan as the Cheshire Cat
* Jason as the Caterpillar
* Billie as Humpty Dumpty
* Ross & Blaine as Tweedledum and Tweedledee–and Amber as The Crow
* Carla as The Wasp In The Wig
* Joe as The Red King
This makes me more uneasy rather than less. Going to the cops isn’t the best idea, but just handing over Becky isn’t the solution either. Maybe Amber can put a tracker on Becky so once Ross leaves with Becky the police can track her?
I suspect Amber’s upcoming plan does not involve Becky (or at least, no more Becky than a necessary cover/‘this does entirely merit freaking out, but we don’t want ANY missteps so let’s be careful who we tell.’) Who’s a vigilante whose friends are in danger trust? People as invested in all of those friends’ wellbeing as she is.
By which I mean she is DEFINITELY going to bring in Sal and attempt a jailbreak before they get any authorities involved (this is suicidal, but A: Lends itself most to sick action sequences involving characters we like and B:… Let’s be real Amber’s self-destructive tendencies by now are edging DANGEROUSLY close to that label in general, given the sleep-deprivation.) Given the ‘season finale’ thing Willis mentioned, I wouldn’t be shocked if some other characters get enlisted for this, too. (Dina as a given – thank you, points in stealth! – but I’d also buy Ruth and maybe even Billie or Carla getting significantly involved in this, though I don’t expect them the same way. Cast’s already big enough for a single plot, anyway.)
Don’t be too discouraged by Sarah’s line. Going to the cops is the best option by far over getting more untrained people. involved and risking their lives. Yes the police are overmilitarized and racism exists but things would have to go cartoonishly wrong for them to shoot Sarah and Walky. So I do think this will end with police involvement.
That being said…,tbat’s not fun at all! So I do believe there are some more clever ways for Amber to get out of this. Mike nearly outsmarted these doofs by himself so the main cast will run circles around them.
Given the number of times cops have gunned people down on wellness checks, much less times when there were higher stakes, I don’t know that I agree with this.
I think it really depends on the local police force. Are they known for excessive use of force? Are they the kind the pass around racist jokes are work emails and share memes from the KKK on their social media without consequence? Probably don’t call them. If they are known for being more.connected to their community and partaking in bias training, etc, then yeah, call them.
I mean, the best argument for this world is how unrealistic it’s become. Realistically speaking, a vigiliante seeking out violent confrontations like Amazi-girl would be arrested, crippled or dead by now. And that’s based on things we’ve seen in comic!
Realistically speaking, trying to do this without the police gets you and your friends killed. But considering where we are, maybe not so much.
Realistically speaking, if they’ve got someone standing by to murder an 18 year old in the hospital at any time they’re pretty damn organized. Trying to do this with the police might get your friends killed anyway because just one of them is dirty or blackmailed or these guys are people Blaine knows from the mob.
I’m not sure there’s a great response here other than major heroism and blond narrative luck. Which is not to say I disagree about the substance of your comment at all.
The thing about somebody standing by to murder an 18 year old in a hospital is that they’d have to be standing by to murder an 18 year old in a hospital. Which means if you actually pull that trigger after somebody has called the cops, you’ve murdered an 18 year old in a hospital.
The people who tend to be willing to do that sort of thing are generally not the sort of people who want to do long ass stints in jail. Which is almost certainly going to happen once it’s clear police are showing up and your ability to do this without a trace is evaporating.
There’s always spite and crazy in the world that ignore best interests, but there is a reason most hostage situations actually end nonviolently.
In this case because it’s a more comic book world with relaxed rules on how realistic physics and situations are I think they can get out of this situation themselves. The only reason I think cops will get involved is because this situation won’t resolve without them. Blaine’s an unhinged lunatic obsessed with getting revenge to retain his toxic sense of pride and Ross is probably gonna kill himself and Becky at the earliest opportunity in some sort of sacrifice to save her soul. These guys aren’t gonna stop unless their dead or in jail and do you really want any of the main cast to become murderers?
Unless they somehow kill themselves which is admittedly a viable option but that’s also really wishful thinking.
It really is the best option for I mean this is a college town the police fucking up and killing the students in the hostage rescue probably pretty high up on the don’t do list. Hell if they’re really that paranoid about it go to the U.S. representative about it so she can put the fear of god into that police department when you tell them.
I’m black but growing up in never thought of myself as black. It wasn’t until I moved to a majority black community that I really started identifying with other black people.
The fact that he still sticks to the party line that “the safety of your friends here and in the hospital depends on your compliance” makes me sad. Also how does he not recognise that his willingness to threaten a dude in a coma decreases his perceived trustworthiness??
Love how Walky is literally so used to passing privilege he forgets it isn’t a guarantee in the sense that it creates comic relief… In reality, that this is so deeply engrained probably explains a lot about the character but wow is that messed up…
(In the context of him having a twin sister whose life has been constantly affected by racism… Although the fact that a lot of it came from their parents definitely makes that worse!)
Yeeeep! Walky’s started to realize that he was in fact the Favorite and there may well have been some Choices by Linda that started before he and Sal could be meaningfully different people, and maybe there’s a reason for that, but it’s one of those plots that hasn’t been at the forefront for a while. (He also hasn’t put together the fact that his mom’s crushing expectations for him/constant disparagement and abandonment of Sal are a part of that as well, and just how badly THAT’S fucking him up too – a chunk of his grades angst has to do with how he NEEDS an effortless A to maintain his position as the Smart One so his mom will still approve of him, but that’s only really come up periodically and that plot’s been a SLOW burn.)
Lets be honest, Willis has really moved away from that at this point. That story could have been told by now, instead we have superhero’s fighting supervillian’s and toes.
Yeah, especially given
– we KNOW from preview panels that Linda’s making an appearance next arc,
– The plot has been on the backburner, but it’s still GOING – Linda’s racism was a key factor in the events leading up to Sal robbing the convenience store, and Walky’s fear of disappointing Linda was an explicit thing he discussed on Garbage Roof,
– Willis has played slow burn on a LOT of arcs – we spent years between the first phone call from ‘Sir’ and Clint’s in-person appearance, or between the last time we saw Alice and the recent reveal that she was IN THE CAR WITH BILLIE when it crashed. Ryan’s, Blaine’s, and Ross’s appearances were likewise years apart, and Ross and Ryan’s reappearances weren’t really foreshadowed until suddenly, they were there. A couple pointed reminders in the last few years is still a clear sign that arc’s running.
Hell, I think we went an entire BOOK without actual Amazi-Girl appearances. There’s a lot of dishes spinning here.
Giving him WAY too much credit. Chances are he’s just repeating what Blaine told him they’re doing. This is not someone who interested in anyone or anything in the Real World beyond using it all for the little puppet show going on in his head. Blaine seems to be aware of that.
Whatever actions, no matter how heinous or reprehensible or monstrous, are vindicated by the End Result. No sin has been committed when the “Righteous are triumphant.
By Ross’ standards, which sadly does very much exist in Real Life, any casualties “deserved” what they got if Ross goals are attained.
I’m not sure that she knows Hank, and also feel like her thoughts right now wouldn’t be in the field of, “You know who you can turn to when times get rough? Dads.” I also don’t think Joyce would really get a chance to suggest it.
I was going to see that I’d be interested to see what Hank would do all the same, but, I mean, step one would probably be calling the police.
The Warner Parents DO seem like the nicest people on Earth. Which, of course, begs the question of WHY their son confidently declares “None are righteous. not even one.”
He possibly thinks they’re oblivious to the bad things in the world, which is not a good thing. Or simply, being his family, he is aware of any number of their flaws and failings.
So I’m “white with a tan”, and I basically got gaslit in high school into saying I was whatever people assumed I was so they would shut up.
(I mean, AFAIK I’m white, but there’s clearly something recessive in there that shows up every couple of generations. No, I don’t give anywhere near enough of a shit to get a DNA test. What I really want is for people to stop asking.)
Yeah, that checks out (the yellowish-tinged tan part).
I’m an immigrant from the UK > US, too, and my family tree as far back as I know is British for a really long-ass time. My siblings are pale and blonde. Recessive genes are a thing!
I am similar, my mother’s side of the family is Scottish, my dad’s is Irish, by rights I should burst into flame when exposed to the sun. I have slightly darkish skin and get really dark when I tan. The family lore is that there was some intermingling with the scots and shipwrecked Spanish sailors when the English destroyed the Spanish armada.
On one hand not calling the police in this situation is kind of a dumb move, but on the other hand I’m black myself so I do understand Sarah’s perspective here, even if I personally I believe it’s an innaccurate take for this specific situation. No way police are gonna shoot the people tied up, systemic racism or not, but I get it.
See, you would hope, but people have been shot by police for just being at home or, worse, calling the police when their homes are broken into. I definitely think calling the police should be an option but I can’t think Sarah’s unreasonable here.
I don’t think Sarah’s opinion is unrealistic or even unjustified, I just think in this situation where they are all tied up, with two white hostages as well, in a confined space, taken hostage by a masked psycho with mob connections and a convicted criminal out on bail, it would take officers specifically looking to kill black people to think Walky and Sarah were a threat in this situation.
I know it’s become common to distrust cops (I do) but I also think it’s a very jaded, and nihilistic worldview to believe that in any situation where law enforcement is involved they will make the worst decision possible and kill innocent people. That’s just not been my experience and I say that as a person who gets nervous during traffic stops and has personal negative experience with law enforcement in my family.
I think it’s less ‘every cop will definitely make the worst decision possible’ and more ‘what is the worst possible outcome of involving them and how do we account for that’. Sarah votes they account for that by not involving the police.
I mean, it’s not even EVERY cop, is it? Like, if the cops are called they’re not just to bring in a couple of uniforms into this, and all it takes is ONE trigger-happy mofo out of the lot.
Who’s going to look at the pile of tied up kids on the floor, see that one or two of them are black and start shooting? I don’t buy it. Certainly not more likely than someone getting killed if they all just go along with whatever the kidnappers want. Or, in the real world, a rescue attempt by some college kids.
Of course, this isn’t the real world and thus the rescue attempt by college kids is probably the best option.
Black people have been shot while they were on the ground with their hands behind their head so Sarah’s not wrong on that. I think she’s less worried they’ll just start shooting when they see them than they’ll come in guns blazing (depressingly common in American hostage ‘rescues’) and in a split second shoot one of them before it registers they’re a hostage because ‘scary’.
A couple years back, in Florida if I recall correctly, a therapist was dealing with an autistic man who was having a meltdown in the street outside his group home. Someone called the cops. When they arrived, the autistic man was sitting on the ground, playing with a truck; the therapist, when he saw police arriving, lay on the ground face-up with his hands in the air. The therapist was shot.
I’m sure it’s completely coincidental that the man with his hands in the air, who was shot by police, was black, while the man acting oddly with the metallic object in his hands, who was not shot, was white…
The white hostages are key here. Cops are much less likely to shoot when whites are involved. Hypothetically, the others could step in front of Sarah and Walky to protect them, if they thought of that.
Sarah didn’t think this it out far enough, which is to be expected under the circumstances.
I agree. One black woman was shot through her window by police who were called to do a wellness check on her. A black man was shot by an off-duty police officer who went into his apartment, and who claimed she thought it was hers and that he was an intruder.
There’s also the problem that even if there is the risk Sarah describes, this situation is extreme enough, there aren’t a lot of other options. Other than relying on the superhero, of course.
For wellness checks and petty crime, there’s definitely an argument the cops often make things worse, but this is a mob linked multiple kidnapping where death threats have already been made.
The more likely bad outcome of getting the cops involved is that Blaine or his mooks get enough warning to carry out their threats of killing a hostage, not that the cops will decide to shoot the bound black kids lying next to the bound white kids.
Yeah, I’m most worried about police arrival as a ‘Ross and Blaine start killing hostages’ scenario. (I don’t doubt authorities WILL get involved eventually, because yeah, there’s no way this situation de-escalates without the bad dads being taken out of the comic longterm in some way or other, but I’m betting Amber’s goal is going to be to get everyone else to safety BEFORE the SWAT teams arrive.)
you’re assuming these are…well…professional police, thejeff. which largely don’t exist that close to any major city. Urban cops are the worst for trigger-happy incidents involving minorities. A black person is safer dealing with a hayseed deputy in rural Alabama, than they are dealing with cops from Chicago, indianapolis, or Milwaukee. (or New York, or Seattle, or San Francisco, or Los Angeles…)
No, I’m assuming nothing of the kind.
In many circumstances, calling the cops is a really bad idea if any minorities are involved. I wouldn’t be saying this if it were a fist fight or even a robbery.
But we’re currently dealing with a gang of kidnappers and death threats. Realistically the alternative to the cops is hoping they didn’t really mean it and they’ll just let everyone go. Or relying on a couple of your college friends to take on the gang in a big dramatic fight scene. (Which, given the dramatic neceseties, is actually likely to work out, but I wouldn’t count on it in real life.)
Yeah, the cops are trigger-happy, dangerous to minorities. This situation is already bad enough that risk is still better than the alternatives.
The calculus can be different when you’re the one at extra risk of being shot though. I can’t fault Sarah for wanting to keep potential guns to a minimum.
This is a kidnapping case, if the police get involved (given the comic we are dealing with, that is a big if), they would know who was kidnapped and what they look like. Unlikely any of them would get shot, particularly if they are still tied up and in the basement.
White supremacists have been deliberately joining police forces.
Police forces don’t screen for white supremacists (or if they do, they don’t do anything unless the white supremacist does something publicly racist, and gets broadcast on the news).
Sarah may be paranoid, but being paranoid doesn’t mean that they aren’t out to get you.
Yes the US has massive trouble with police shooting at black people for no discernible reason, but you are assuming they will be stupid enough to fire at at bunch of people some of whom are white in a situation where it’s impossible to only hit one person.
CJ, the kind of police we’re discussing are the kind that need forty rounds and two magazine changes to shoot a wood-carver in the back in Seattle…at less than seven yards, with a 9mm handgun. They’re the kind of police that required slightly over 170 rounds of .223 rifle ammunition to gun down a man in his doorway in Phoenix in broad daylight while executing a bogus search warrant and stealing the medals he brought back from his tour in Afghanistan. These are the sort of police that mistake a ten year old with a phone for an adult with a gun. These are the police that give a REASON for groups like Black Lives Matter to form. Y’see, there’s a fundamental flaw in how we screen and train law enforcement in our major urban areas and bigger cities-we give them more leeway than the DoD gives marines in Fallujah who are under fire, but we don’t screen out the sociopaths, latent psychopaths, or narcissists. as a result, you get hypermilitarized ‘cowboy’ cops in the big cities. (the sort that are also shockingly prone to being corrupt cops who act more as muscle for the organized crime and regime protection details for whichever political machine happens to run said city) thing is, these narcissistic sociopaths are also amazingly bad shots, tend NOT watch the backstop when they discharge their weapons, and very well might be in Blaine’s hip pocket because the odds are very good he’s got more than a few of them on his payroll and the rest will hold the line to keep the dirtbags in badges instead of ejecting the scumbags from their ranks. (Police unions spend a lot of time keeping crooked scumbags on the force instead of letting them get disciplined or fired.)
Notably, scumbag psychopath cops don’t predominate in areas where police aren’t allowed to have that union protection when they kill/maim/steal from someone using the badge and “Sovereign immunity” statutes.
Dude, if you expect them to shoot when they go into a situation where they
A) Know there is a bunch of college student hostages
B) Someone who wants to be re-elected is involved and she could really make a mile high stink about any mishandling of the situation
C) Student have been kidnapped from Campus and the Univesity Administration has already trouble with its reputation after the Ryan incident, so the University needs this to be resolved without damaging the students.
you expect each and every police person there to be raving sociopathic maniacs.
Even the maniacs avoid killing people who are well connected and have establishment on their side. They are just cowards who kick down where they don’t expect to be held responsible.
Teary-eyed Ethan has me wondering if a LGBT conversation is gonna start between him and Toedad given the former’s affection for Mike and the latter’s disapproval of Becky.
Not expecting Toedad to get better, just thought this might come up.
I don’t think outing yourself to someone who’s willing to kill over the fact that his daughter is gay is a great idea. Ethan is being held hostage with several of his friends. He can’t get out of there if Ross decides to be anything more than indifferent to that information (like deciding Ethan must have been a bad influence on Becky).
Okay Toe wants nothing to do with Blaine’s plan beyond getting Becky. Not ideal but that’s…a start.
And yeah I feel you Sarah, I wouldn’t want to deal with the police anymore than I have to. If they’ll kill you when someone breaks into your home they’ll definitely kill you as a hostage in the middle of chaos.
Or for tracking down people who commit federal crimes or federal-adjascent crimes. Like kidnapping a Congresswoman’s campaign manager. Or kidnapping in general.
I think Vukodiak’spoint is that these people are already tracked. We already know where they are. And they can’t move, because if they do then Amber can’t bring Becky to them, which sort of ruins the whole plan.
Okay, so I’m going to walk through/speculate on Amber’s options.
Going to the police is out. Even without those threats and Sarah’s concerns, Amber doesn’t really do the whole police thing. She might be willing to let AG out of the box, but AG had trouble with just Blaine and Toedad, not counting all the extras. Who does that leave?
Amber can’t really go recruiting everyone’s friends, because she doesn’t KNOW anyone else. … except Sal, and Malaya, and Marcie, and Danny, and Dina. Sal and Dina might be useful here. Danny and Amber can probably get access to Mike’s hospital room by playing the childhood friend card, meaning Amber can be on-hand to protect him. Malaya could, if nothing else, distract Faz.
Amber can also give Becky all the details. Becky would do almost anything to help out Joyce, and she’s a pretty fast and devious thinker in a pinch. She’s also the one person that everyone’s guaranteed to let into the building, though obviously that’s a high-risk play.
Becky could also contact Hank. Hank could, say, contact their reverend who MIGHT be amenable to talking Toedad down if he’s got his cell phone on him. (Wouldn’t 100% bet on it, but I’d lay better than 50/50 odds.) I don’t think Becky would trust this approach, though, and she might not see any value in involving Hank. Becky might also get Billie involved, and that could get Ruth involved. I could see Ruth trying to handle things without involving the cops or college security.
Also, Becky probably knows Ross’s phone number, and Amber might have the skills to hack that. We haven’t seen that level of skill out of her yet, but it’s not too much of a stretch.
Go to the media? Like, via Becky&Robin? If that doesn’t scare off the extras, i don’t know what will. And while they’re distracted, have them free themselves via the various implements i assume Amber had secreted on her body but has undoubtedly been able to access and hand off or drop by now. Remember, Batman is an escape artist and ninja as well…
Buuut Robin probably isn’t all that competent to handle this without calling in someone like the police, she won’t care much about the hostages, and Amber doesn’t have much of a relationship with her that she could appeal to anyway.
That Sarah says “overmilitarized” instead of “militarized” makes me think she thinks the problem is that the mini-armies of occupation shouldn’t be quite so heavy-handed about their militarization, which is a nice bit of pro-establishment bias characterization for a lawyer-y person
The thing about the US’s militarised police is that, until you get some half-way decent gun control going over there that means that any violent half-wit with a few hundred bucks can get their hands on a semi-automatic machine of mass murder, you can’t have a demilitarised police even if every member of the police were a saint.
She has. The cheeks have always been the big tell for Amber vs. Amazi-Girl, not the costume – we’ve seen Amber in full costume (when Amber first did Garbage Roof with Walky), and Amazi-Girl without the costume at all (when Amazi-Girl broke up with Danny).
Also, I know what Sarah is worried about, but it is better to get the police than be at the hands of those sociopaths. Seriously, it is because of distrust in the police that Sal persuaded Joyce not to testify against Ryan. Why do Americans have such a fucked up police system? Why do we Mexicans have an even more fucked up police system?! Seriously! British cops don’t carry guns and Japan’s cops carry a respectful job. If only cops in the Americas weren’t so racist and corrupt the organized criminals wouldn’t be so powerful!
I would be surprised if Amber does call the police after she’s released. I’m assuming she’ll go Amazi-Girl and get help from Sal and possibly other fellow students.
This is problematic narratively. Involving the police the SECOND it becomes feasible to do so is the only sensible thing to do. The second we deviate from that we jump into zany Scooby-Doo logic.
I see in fiction a lot where the by-the-book solution people would actually do is considered like, too boring so the characters are charmed into doing something needlessly complicated. “No Huck, we can’t just walk out of the dangerous situation and be glad! We need to chain Jim to the bedpost first!”
Take, I dunno, an example where a jet airliner has both pilots incapacitated. The textbook answer is maybe someone gets on the radio or uses a cell phone to get step by step instructions from ground control from an expert on how to land. That’s still pretty exciting even though all your’e doing is following procedure. But no! What if that’s too boring!? Instead of that, let’s have our characters pull out a Oujia board and try and contact their dead grandpa who used to be a pilot! Isn’t that MORE INTERESTING?!
No. It isn’t. When characters take serious threats un-seriously, it makes the whole emotional tension un-serious. Getting a plane down even following FAA procedure is still a pretty tense situation, made all the more tense by people trying to use the very best plan they can to solve it and realizing it still could go wrong.
“And DON’T just run to the police”
Why the HELL not? Ross hasn’t given one reason why they shouldn’t. And doing the opposite of what he wants is a pretty good starting point.
“I’m WAY less scared of these bozos”
Well, I guess we the audience shouldn’t take them seriously then. They’ve 1) Successfully kidnapped multiple of you 2) Claimed to have injured and hospitalized Mike to within an inch of his life, a claim backed up by available information of no one has seen him on an important midterm day, and the fact they know who Mike is which they wouldn’t if they hadn’t at least met him.
But sure, if we think the professional law enforcement is so trigger happy they’re just going to gun down bounded hostages, then whatever.
Grab the Ouija Board, we’re gonna solve this OUR WAY.
Ah good, you’ve found the reason why black people will often not just turn to the police when they get in trouble and have to solve issues with criminals using . . . any other means.
Anyway, cops have shot the black dude (who was a carer) laying on the floor with his arms up while not a single person was being violent.
Yeah, I know about that kind of thing, and it’s terrible. I saw a video of a cop “bravely” shooting a black guy in the back as he ran away unarmed. This is of course super wrong. De-escalation training apparently works really well and all police should be trained to use the minimum force first.
Despite all that, I’m not aware of police killing tied up, college kid, female hostages in a hostage situation because they’re black. Or at all. Not killing the hostages is kind of a thing police try for.
Blaine as good as said if they don’t cooperate, he WILL kill them like he nearly did, and is still willing to kill, Mike. To say “yeah that’s bad and all, but I’m so sure the police are even more likely to kill us and represent the greater threat that I’ll take my chances with this guy” strains credibility. They’ve been here for five minutes, it’s too early for Stockholm Syndrome.
We’re not calling in the cops because we need to not have the cops involved narratively for whatever comic-book showdown Willis has planned for us. Fine, I guess. But the reason is “because racism”? I’m having a hard time.
“Call the COPS? Are you crazy? I’ll take my chances with the deranged, wheezing, mask-wearing self-admitted manslaughterer/murderer, thanks.”
The kidnappers are at least willing to have a conversation, as awful of a conversation as it is. The cops, unfortunately, do not always even do that, and it absolutely is because of racism.
You’re right. They should be trained in deescalation. They often aren’t. Some of the MANY stories of cops shooting first and asking questions later happened in Indiana (admittedly, I’m unaware of any that happened in Bloomington, specifically, but remember that Bloomington, as liberal as it is, is still in Indiana. The fundie group is pretty realistic for Indiana, and neo-nazi/KKK-affiliated groups absolutely are active in Bloomington. Look up the Schooner’s Creek Farm drama). “Call the COPS? Are you crazy? I’ll take my chances with the deranged, wheezing, mask-wearing self-admitted manslaughterer/murderer, thanks.” is not as outrageous as it sounds when the former is someone you have to gamble will be a good cop instead of the cop that will shoot you without asking questions, and the second one is at least making coherent demands, and probably less competent with a gun. At least Sarah already knows what she’s getting with the latter. Should they still try to call the cops, despite the risk? Yea, probably. Is Sarah’s apprehension understandable, though? Definitely.
Now, there’s actually three different police forces in Bloomington. There’s IUPD, BPD, and the Monroe County Sheriff. I’m admittedly curious which one’s jurisdiction they are in right now, since we don’t know where they’re at. Since they are talking about just letting Amber loose in the yard and expect Amber/AZ to be able to easily get to Becky on her own, I’m guessing they are in city limits, and off campus but close to it, so they could find either of the first two. They are probably closest to BPD.
Now that I think about it, speaking of IUPD, the fact that the mob/fundies/whoever managed to pull off this kidnapping without getting IUPD’s attention is…very suspicious. Especially after a FIRE ALARM was pulled. That should have drawn their attention MORE. I’m a little worried that the mob has pulled some more strings than we know.
It’s almost like this is a reason why the Thin Blue Line mentality, which prioritizes defending guilty, abusive cops over all else, only makes society less safe and makes crime more likely to happen.
Because if people are afraid of the police, THEY’RE NOT GOING TO CALL THE POLICE WHEN THEY NEED THEM.
I more or less agree with this. I have a personal creed of solving things at the lowest and involving police in anything as the last of last resorts.
But kidnapping me and my friends, transporting us to the secondary location, raving about how he injured one of my friends so badly said friend is now in the hospital, and how he has a plausible plan to have said friend killed, is so far bonkers getting the police involved is the only sane plan. Not “Oh, you silly bozo, you”.
And definitely not “Oh hey, we should assist this madman in bringing who he wants back here. That’s probably not aiding and abetting a crime! Which I would reasonably know if I were a pre-law student. OH WAIT I AM.”
Sarah is not suggesting they help kidnap Becky. She’s only expressing her extremely valid concerns about involving police
Cops have never been anywhere as good at deescalating hostage situations as TV would have you believe. Even WITHOUT factoring in their frequent racism, their ever increasing militarization has made them really good at killing innocent bystanders
Well put Shane. What I always found hillarious is that _Airplane_ managed to do this insanely well. And it had an actual pilot available to land the plane WITH ground control guidance. Despite being a very goofy commedy they still managed to have a sense of suspense around the crisis.
Yes the cops in the states are excessive and problematic. However that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t still be the first step in dealing with a hostage situation. But, does making this point several times reflect a personal bias from priviledge?
Unfortunately, in this case, Bloomington does have a record of police violence against blacks. In 1983 BPD shot Denver Smith under extremely suspicious circumstances shortly before he was supposed to graduate IU. Sarah’s reaction may make sense. Basic google searches didn’t turn up much, but that is not evidence of absence. Another story (Indianna Public Media: Vigil against Police Brutality, 2014) quotes a Rev Kort saying they have a good PD in Bloomington (the vigil was about a murder in Missouri). I see it as a toss-up, but I didn’t grow up in a culture of police violence.
Walky is half-black, as opposed to Sarah’s full-black.
There’s not a non racist punchline there so let me use my soapbox to say that my foolish idea to use my actual name of my username means it’s forever tied to the dipshit Ryan in the comic.
She could always start by going to the hospital and taking out the goons hovering over Mike. Might also be a useful check on Blaine and Toedad’s veracity to see if Mike really is there.
Duh…. which hospital? You could start with the University Health Center, but if he’s not there then what? There’s bound to be more than one medical center in a city the size of Bloomington.
Sarah, whilst I agree that SWAT training and culture in the US could definitely use a tune-up, I really think that you’re afraid of the wrong thing here.
If by “our helpers” he means members of his church, then that might happen. Probably won’t even then though. If however they’re “members of the Korean mob acting on favours Blaine has called in” or “members of Blaine’s family” then hell no that ain’t gonna work. And Ross is so blinkered and dumb i honestly don’t know which is more likely here.
Ross has already referred to the helpers as “your hires” when addressing Blaine. If they are members of Ross’s church he mus be feeling suddenly cynical.
In my country, police is taught to not shoot unless there really is no other way. And I think that’s a good thing. They get a whole lot of deescalation lessons.
I’d be worried that Sarah thinks that the police would be worse than Blaine and Ross actively killing them. But given the statistics and the idiocy of this campus so far–she may just be accurate in her interpretation of the danger.
The FBI actually has been ordered to not designate white male shooters like Ross as domestic terrorists for example.
Ross isn’t a domestic terrorist. Not because he’s white, but because his motives are personal, not political.
I’m not sure it’s true in the larger sense either. The FBI stepped up its efforts against right-wing extremists earlier this year. It’s certainly true that they’ve long downplayed that threat.
Well his motives are religious and he’s assaulting a public institution on ideological grounds. If it’s a distinction, it’s a distinction without a difference, IMHO.
He’s not assaulting a public institution, though. THe assault just happens to take place there. If you shoot someone in a chicken factory farm over the correct way to hang toilet paper*, that’s not a protest on animal cruelty.
How many students of the University does he have to kidnap before it counts as “assaulting a public institution”?
Also, unlike the chicken factory (which would have commercial large spool dispensers, nullifying the TP debate in their context), IU is the institution Ross thinks is responsible for corrupting Joyce and Becky. So he is definitely a candidate white domestic terrorist.
How would he think IU has corrupted Becky? Becky went to Anderson and her initial sin was committed there. She doesn’t even go to IU. He’s not trying to do anything to IU, he’s only here because his daughter is nearby.
No, it really is a difference. He’s trying to kidnap his daughter. He’s not trying to make any political statement or change public policy or even terrorize anyone outside of his immediate agenda. Religion’s all tied up in his motivations, but he’s not trying to spread his creed, just reclaim what he considers his property. This is domestic violence, not terrorism.
I’m pretty sure that Amber/AG won’t bring Becky. But she might go to warn her — and on learning that Joyce is in danger, Becky might run out anyway.
An idea I had * is that Amber/AG collects the most athletic kids from the floor (Carla, Ruth, Sal, maybe Billie since Ruth’s call woke her), and Carla, Ruth, and Billie stage a distraction/frontal assault while A/AG+Sal attempt the rescue.
=____________________________________________________________
*: really, my guesses never come out, so put no faith in this
“Congressperson Learns of Kidnapping in Progress, Deploys Vigilante Mercenary Response Instead of Contacting Law Enforcement” isn’t a headline that’s even remotely sane for a politician to consider.
You’re confusing the cartoonish absurd world with orange bleeding in the white pallet, with a comic book. I don’t think Willis has listed Trump as president, so presumably the current POTUS doesn’t weigh in. He wasn’t in when the semester started, and even if re-elected (probably at this rate) he won’t still be in office when the semester ends.
Joe has made a (Willis-confirmed-to-be) President Trump joke at Dorothy’s expense, and – though this second example was posted earlier in 2016 – Carla also once referred to Dorothy as “Little Miss Hillary Clinton Junior” in a derogatory context.
There’s also the “Dumbing of Age is always set in the present year, it’s a sliding-timescale” thing, which means that the comic is currently set in October of 2020.
There seems to be no way out. Of course, they might be so lucky that they have external help, or some key may be released once AG returns with her full memory of what happened the night before, but it seems that they will be saved in the end by Ross keeping his word once he has Becky back, at the cost of dying or being seriously hurt in the process.
Maybe it’s an unoccupied house Blaine’s company is renovating. It’s not as obvious as using his own place, and there would be a plausible reason for his vans and crew to be there.
Where-ever it is, if Amber knows where it is she can send SWAT and police hostage negotiators. And then the bad dads have no way to win, just a choice between death and centuries in prison. So it is bad technique on the kidnappers’ part to divulge the location to Amber.
This is going all Coen Brothers. Whether Ross ends up feeding Blaine through the wood-chipper or vice versa, the evil scheme is a gruesome comedy of errors that is falling apart so fast people are getting hurt by the shrapnel.
At least in Scooby Doo the plan would have worked if not of the interfering kids. This is just stupid.
I live in Europe (Poland) and why our police can be incompetent or even unnecessarily brutal, I just can’t imagine them being told of kidnapped college students and sending our equivalent of SWAT – who, then, would gun down college-aged, tied-down people just because they were Black.
I know USA isn’t Poland and I know there have been some really awful incidents with cops there… still, I really have trouble believing that systemic racism so strong and so prevalent among US cops that a typical SWAT unit starts shooting the moment they catch a glimpse of a Black person… Even if said person is lying down, all tied up and next to non-Black people in the same situation.
(and if the situation is really that bad, then… holy crap)
Overall, I still say Amber should go to the police. Trying to mount some amateur rescue attempt is just insanity.
Coming from poland you should know that the tone of your skin very well determines if you’re found guilty of everything.
German here, and I find the developments in poland (and many parts of europe) highly worrisome.
It’s not quite THAT bad. They’re far, far too high as is, and there’s a big racial disparity in who the victims are, but it’s not something that most SWAT units do. If it was, police shootings would be 100 times worse in this country. Most cases work out the way they’re supposed to, but when it goes wrong it goes horrifically wrong, and a small percentage of a large number of incidents adds up to a pretty large number of its own.
Even a 1% chance is too high in theory. When you’re the person liable to get shot, it’s way, way, way too high in practice. It’s the same principle whereby homophobic violence might be deplorable to straight allies, but it’s nowhere near as alarming for those allies as it is for the lgbt crowd.
Also, stray bullets.
And this wouldn’t be a typical case. A forced entry into confined quarters against multiple, possibly-armed felons is exactly the sort of situation where trigger fingers might get twitchy. Turning a corner to see someone three feet away from you, where you have a split second to register whether they’re a threat or not, under a high stress situation where a false negative (mistakenly deciding that someone’s not a threat) can get you and your fellow officers killed, is the sort of thing that is guaranteed up the rate of false positives. It’s also the sort of snap-judgement situation where implicit bias might carry the most weight. Add in that the Bloomington CIRT (what they call their SWAT team) can’t have anywhere near the sort of experience as a similar team in a major city, and you’ve got something close to a worst-case scenario.
Overall, Sarah’s PROBABLY exaggerating how bad it would be, either for emphasis or because she’s accentuating the negative because that’s what a Sarah does. Getting shot by police during a “rescue” is a risk, but far from a sure thing.
Yeah I’m concerned that most european people are okay with racism since years, as long as it only concerns people with bad reputation – like, say, romani people. It’s been decades that they are in literal camps, and everyone does as Europe was a liberal heaven all the while.
Germany, for example, has still a hard time admitting that the nazis never went away completely and racism is a thing. Even if it’s not as institutionalized as it is in the US (at least a small silver lining) and the nazis are still a minority.
And, yes, France‘s way of treating the romani people is not something to be proud of either.
There is still much to be done.
Yet the risk of getting shot for being black is highest in the US. By far. So, yeah, I would not welcome a squad of gun-toting hooligans on adrenaline either, if I were in Sarah‘s place.
sorry, if only it was just France… but in Hungary they are in work camps. Not speaking from other country where it doesn’t matter to kill/injure a romani because “they aren’t really people”. Other example in Switzerland with the Yenishes who were forced to become steril. But you’re right France has one of the toughest shit, bc, even now, there are some people using a kind of forced sterilization on black carribean people – which makes it systemic.
Also I’m not comparing the situation of blacks in the US and romani in Europe in terms of body count, but saying that even at a lower level, there are people in the land of the interlocutor that are possibly shot without any remorse and proof of anything by the police
Yeah. If Mike, Ross, anyone else who knows Blaine is involved, or anyone who heard heard Ball-Peen ranting about his daughter survives this, then Blaine and his hires are going to prison for several hundred years each. Which means the probability of Blaine or one of his hires trying to kill Mike, Ross, and all six hostages is 100%.
The cops would have to be pretty bad to be worse than that.
Been reading this comic since day 1 and all the others before it, but this? This was the last straw. Trying to paper over your giant gaping “how come the cops aren’t involved?” plot hole by resorting to having Sarah mouth the “afraid police will kill me because I’m the wrong color, rather have the criminals than them” sentiment is the final straw. Sarah, who expects to work in the legal field, so distrusts the police in a small college town not to kill her out of race hatred that she’d rather be left in the hands of a religious zealot and a madman who thinks he’s a supervillain. You’ve gone from absurdist to unreadable with this out-of-the-blue, out-of-character idiocy, and I am done with it for good.
Couple of my black employees have confided the absolute terror they feel when they get pulled over, which is surprisingly often given that they consciously drive careful to avoid being pulled over. So, not that unrealistic.
That’s certainly granted. When the stakes start out low, getting the police involved makes it significantly more dangerous for black people. During the middle of a violent crime where the criminals already claim to have put one person in the hospital and are threatening to kill him and the rest of you? Seems a little different to me.
Yeah. Blaine and Ross have no way of staying out of prison unless Mike and all the hostages are dead. The only way anyone gets out of this alive is if they aren’t actually willing to kill in cold blood.
Th e police have to be pretty bad to be a worse prospect than that.
The problem is not Blaine and Ross staying out prison. It is not an investigation concluding that Sarah and Walky are the real perpetrators. It is a precipitated intervention of the police forces where they are seeing threats on every dark corner, be it dark only because of skin complexion. There is an history of such cases where cops have shot “threatening looking” people, and god knows what does not threaten cops – it isn’t even just in America, we got pretty the same thing every time we got a police-covering government member, and some of your president counselors would have been the right wing of our most far right electoral party, I mean, by US standards, we live in a liberal socialist country.
The point of “Blaine and Ross staying out of prison” isn’t the investigation, but that Blaine at least is likely to not want to leave witnesses alive, since if he does he’ll likely spend the rest of his life in jail. (I don’t think Ross is thinking in those terms and Blaine is likely to lump him in the category of “witness”.)
Yes, there’s a risk the cops might shoot the threatening looking tied up kids, but the risk that the kidnappers do so is still much higher here.
This literally is not unrealistic in America. Police have killed black people for very petty and small reasons.
The policy on kidnappings in America is also to have a no-concession approach which has in the past led to raids where hostages have died because they went in guns blazing. Spain has a high success rate with negotiations, America has like, you’re almost guaranteed either a rescuer or a hostage will die in the process.
Good to know this is a plot hole. I thought cops were not involved because of the well-known usual incompetence of the authorities, as in real life. But of course it can’t be that, because this is a work of fiction.
Also, I’m really waiting for Toedad to shocked Pikachu this when he realizes that his plan is so easily foiled and has almost no chance of working in the first place without him getting immediately arrested again.
Maybe they could call the cops on just Toedad (since he’s in the police record, while Blaine could lie like a snake and play himself off as the victim somehow). Even if he got out of jail legitimately through bail, the fact that he’s committed another crime this soon should raise some police alarms.
Although, I understand working with the police is risky in its own right. I don’t think it’s likely they’ll be shot (while still a possibility), but it is likely they’ll be scrutinized just for being kids. “Oh, well we need to know whether or not they’re lying. They’re college kids after all, this could be a prank to get attention. Let’s ask them humiliating and unnecessary questions for a few hours before we go after this man.” :/
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I feel this, I forget I’m Asian, as white as we were raised in fucking TENNESSEE
(so I appreciate where Sal’s coming from)
Huh. I never knew you were Asian.
Neat.
Yeah, a lot of Asian people don’t broadcast it.
If memory serves, there is a Jen Aside sighting in a guest comic for Avalon.
We’ve also got
JenSue Aside here in Dumbing of Age, per the tags.I always imagine that you are the age, race, and gender as whichever character is your gravatar
Hell, I have trouble remembering that some regular commenters who use the standard gravatars aren’t the one they used last/having to check when I associate one person with a particular one. (Especially with all the blonde characters in the standard rotation!)
Reltzik and I share the same avatar and are obviously the same person.
I will never look at identical twins the same way again.
So I’m Twilight Sparkle then? I’m ok with this.
this is 100% legit. I once met up with someone offline and kept saying to myself “you didn’t actually think she was a hedgehog. I know you didn’t. why are you having trouble with recognizing her as a human.”
I identify as cat.
Hi, white Swedish female here.
So… at least one correct fact?
The neurodivergence may be there, but everything else is inaccurate.
I don’t wanna be a skeleton, well dressed as it is!
I almost never throw blue lightning at anyone. (As much as I might want to.)
I am totally OK with pointing things out!
That’s why I made me a curly-dark-haired version of the grav who looked closest to me. (I have glasses now tho, maybe I should add those.)
Hey, that’s actually a transphobic meme, just to let you know.
Oh no, was completely selected at random. I’m a 35 year old Irish-white dude in the Pacific Northwest. I have no idea how to change it. I think mine’s a dark skinned lady, but it’s been a while.
So I am actually the Hourglass Nebula?
Why didn’t anyone tell me!
TACOS!!
Mines… actually not that far off
Wait no I keep forgetting my hair is curly now. The resemblance stops at vague brownness
I totally get this – I remember a moment I had, seeing myself in the reflection of a subway car window in Germany (the car was full of other people as well), and thinking, “Oh right, I’m Asian!”
I am deer. I used to be in Idaho, but now I’m in California. There are deer abound in both places.
I’ve had some similar stuff in the opposite direction. I grew up in an area with a large Hispanic and Native American population so that’s normalised for me and it honestly wasn’t until I was about 25 that I thought back to my youth and realized “huh, maybe the folks named Salgado and Montaño weren’t white.”
My mother used to call me ‘a pill.’
This is funny to me, because I am Jewish but look normal WASP. I have, despite looking like a typical white dude, been subjected to nearly ceaseless racism from rich white christian assholes. NEVER judge people’s life experience without context.
Fuckin relatable. It wasn’t until I left my highschool full of other mixed kids that I actually acknowledged my race as a thing, especially when I was the only mixed one in class at my next school. So trippy
The 2020 census was hard for Walky, as he couldn’t find the checkbox for Caramel American.
Panel six: Walky keeps forgetting his race, or that he can look scary? Because I’m not really sold on the latter, even in the mask.
Real-life ValdVin is wearing a mask in public now, BTW. But nobody’s confusing me with Nighguy(TM).
I think it’s because his parents keep acting like he’s white. It’s been heavily implied that Sal and Walky’s mom is a Lovecraft (i.e. married a person of marginalized status in order to own them).
TIL Lovecraft means anything other than the author of unknowable eldritch horrors locked between time and space.
Howard Phillips Lovecraft, the horror writer, was a racist, venomous anti-Semite, and explicit admirer of Hitler who married a jewish woman (“but very well integrated”): Sonia Greene.
She divorced him after two years.
Yeah, I know, right?
And I’m a lifelong Southern New Englander; this is something I shoulda already had in my brain.
As always, “Walky just came out whiter”
Just have a plan of action that screams, “This can’t be right”, for any Hoos passing by Amber
Doesn’t Sarah want to be a lawyer? Come on go to the police.
What’s your connection there?
Lot of options for lawyers that don’t involve dealing with the police! She might also draw a distinction between ‘managing to maintain a reasonably civil adversarial relationship’ and ‘wanting to bring the inherently-escalating SWAT team into a situation where she’s defenseless, given general police track records on this subject.’
Maybe she wants to be a public defender maybe she wants to go into corporate law.
I have a lawyer xousin who makes contracts for college athletes. Not everyone goes DA.
The lawyers I know despise the police
The cops won’t see “Future Lawyer” tattooed on her head when they bust in, adrenaline pumping. Just cause someone wants to work in law doesn’t mean they wanna interact with the police outside of work.
Would Saul Goodman go to the police?
Saul Goodman is a manager in a cinnabon. He makes a poor legal career role model.
In my experience, lawyers are the people to go to if the police fuck up, especially if there’s a case to be made for discrimination.
I feel like Sarah would love to join the cast of the GOOD FIGHT where they sue the policy on a near-constant basis. I’m not joking, that’s the mandate of their firm.
…yeah, I’ve got a cousin who’s a lawyer, who works as something like a public defender.
Whenever I see her, the conversation tends to drift towards the horribly fucked up bullshit spewed by government authorities, usually cops, spew in order to get her clients convicted.
She doesn’t drink alcohol. I don’t think I could abstain if I were in her position.
Hard to be a lawyer if overzealous cops shoot her while she’s still in college
Also a valid concern for Sarah and Walky in particular!
And oh, Ross, I think you actually believe what you’re saying right now and like FUCK is that Blaine’s plan. You really are Wile E. Coyote sawing off your own cliff right now, dude.
I’m sure that is definitely not Blaine’s plan.
Blaine totally intends to kill them all even though he’s certain his mask protects his identity.
Of course it’s not Blaine’s plan, but since Blaine was always going to screw Ross over anyway I’m not sure why Ross should care.
It only really differs in that he’s letting Amber go and that’s the only way to fulfill the only part of Blaine’s plan he cares about – getting Becky.
I’d bet Ross doesn’t know what Blaine’s plan is, and that Blaine doesn’t care whether Ross knows what Blaine’s plan is, because Blaine sees Ross and Becky as game pieces in his plan, which is all about Amazi-Girl. What I don’t see is how Ross managed to even come near the thought that Amber is Amazi-Girl.
He believed her when she said she was?
But yeah, Ross doesn’t know Blaine’s actual plan, but he does know Blaine’s stated plan – use these kids to make Amazi-Girl bring them Becky.
Ross should care its not blaines plan, but ross remains unaware – due to having his head so far up his ass – that Blaine does not share his intentions and he’s not just going to get becky and leave… or that blaine couldn’t give a shit about what ross wants other than saying what he needs to get ross to be his thug
hell, you know who might makes a great fallguy for these missing kids? the gunhappy religeous extremist who already tried to shoot the place up before
Well, Sal is not the police.
I’m a fool to do your Dirty Work, oh yeah
I don’t wanna do your Dirty Work, no more…–Steely Dan, circa 1975
(Nothing against AC/DC tho’.)
And before it gets forgotten, back on the 1st, Hiveworks was taking webcomics Tea Party, and that sent me to brainstorm Dumbingverse Wonderland:
* at least five candidates for Alice: Joyce, Dorothy, Becky, Lucy and Leslie
* and then there are the Duchess, the Knave, the Gryphon and the Mock Turtle. Whoever you don’t choose for Alice can fill these roles
* Mike as the Mad Hatter
* Ruth as the Queen of Hearts
* Walky as the Dormouse
* Robin as the White Rabbit
* Ethan as the Cheshire Cat
* Jason as the Caterpillar
* Billie as Humpty Dumpty
* Ross & Blaine as Tweedledum and Tweedledee–and Amber as The Crow
* Carla as The Wasp In The Wig
* Joe as The Red King
Sorry to disagree, but As for me: Galasso for Red Queen, even if he doesn’t shout : “off with her head!”
The Red Queen and the Queen of Hearts are two different characters.
Sarah and Dorothy have reasonable concerns here. Thiiiis will be interesting.
This makes me more uneasy rather than less. Going to the cops isn’t the best idea, but just handing over Becky isn’t the solution either. Maybe Amber can put a tracker on Becky so once Ross leaves with Becky the police can track her?
I suspect Amber’s upcoming plan does not involve Becky (or at least, no more Becky than a necessary cover/‘this does entirely merit freaking out, but we don’t want ANY missteps so let’s be careful who we tell.’) Who’s a vigilante whose friends are in danger trust? People as invested in all of those friends’ wellbeing as she is.
By which I mean she is DEFINITELY going to bring in Sal and attempt a jailbreak before they get any authorities involved (this is suicidal, but A: Lends itself most to sick action sequences involving characters we like and B:… Let’s be real Amber’s self-destructive tendencies by now are edging DANGEROUSLY close to that label in general, given the sleep-deprivation.) Given the ‘season finale’ thing Willis mentioned, I wouldn’t be shocked if some other characters get enlisted for this, too. (Dina as a given – thank you, points in stealth! – but I’d also buy Ruth and maybe even Billie or Carla getting significantly involved in this, though I don’t expect them the same way. Cast’s already big enough for a single plot, anyway.)
Far as Ruth goes, if she gets involved, that creates an opening for her granddad to come be a prick at her again.
So, how many strips til Ruth shows up? I’m putting $5 on “Before the 20th”.
Are you trying to con people out of $5?
If anything, I’m probably gonna wind up losing five bucks. Guessing and numbers have never been my strong suits.
*narrows eyes*
Okay.
(I was figuring you had seen the preview panel linked below of Ruth on the 19th, with your “before the 20th”.)
I would say by the 19th: https://dumbingofage.tumblr.com/post/190407425082/april-19-2020
Is that from the future!?
Going to Becky’s guards and telling them where the person who they’re protecting Becky from is might work.
All hail the logic.
More likely they would just put Becky into super-protection lockdown and call the police from the lockdown bunker.
Don’t be too discouraged by Sarah’s line. Going to the cops is the best option by far over getting more untrained people. involved and risking their lives. Yes the police are overmilitarized and racism exists but things would have to go cartoonishly wrong for them to shoot Sarah and Walky. So I do think this will end with police involvement.
That being said…,tbat’s not fun at all! So I do believe there are some more clever ways for Amber to get out of this. Mike nearly outsmarted these doofs by himself so the main cast will run circles around them.
Given the number of times cops have gunned people down on wellness checks, much less times when there were higher stakes, I don’t know that I agree with this.
I think it really depends on the local police force. Are they known for excessive use of force? Are they the kind the pass around racist jokes are work emails and share memes from the KKK on their social media without consequence? Probably don’t call them. If they are known for being more.connected to their community and partaking in bias training, etc, then yeah, call them.
I mean, the best argument for this world is how unrealistic it’s become. Realistically speaking, a vigiliante seeking out violent confrontations like Amazi-girl would be arrested, crippled or dead by now. And that’s based on things we’ve seen in comic!
Realistically speaking, trying to do this without the police gets you and your friends killed. But considering where we are, maybe not so much.
Realistically speaking, if they’ve got someone standing by to murder an 18 year old in the hospital at any time they’re pretty damn organized. Trying to do this with the police might get your friends killed anyway because just one of them is dirty or blackmailed or these guys are people Blaine knows from the mob.
I’m not sure there’s a great response here other than major heroism and blond narrative luck. Which is not to say I disagree about the substance of your comment at all.
Blaine said they do. He’s a liar.
The thing about somebody standing by to murder an 18 year old in a hospital is that they’d have to be standing by to murder an 18 year old in a hospital. Which means if you actually pull that trigger after somebody has called the cops, you’ve murdered an 18 year old in a hospital.
The people who tend to be willing to do that sort of thing are generally not the sort of people who want to do long ass stints in jail. Which is almost certainly going to happen once it’s clear police are showing up and your ability to do this without a trace is evaporating.
There’s always spite and crazy in the world that ignore best interests, but there is a reason most hostage situations actually end nonviolently.
* blonde narrative luck *
Luck is feminine, right?
Often called “Lady Luck”, for about the same reason the people around trump call him a genius.
In this case because it’s a more comic book world with relaxed rules on how realistic physics and situations are I think they can get out of this situation themselves. The only reason I think cops will get involved is because this situation won’t resolve without them. Blaine’s an unhinged lunatic obsessed with getting revenge to retain his toxic sense of pride and Ross is probably gonna kill himself and Becky at the earliest opportunity in some sort of sacrifice to save her soul. These guys aren’t gonna stop unless their dead or in jail and do you really want any of the main cast to become murderers?
Unless they somehow kill themselves which is admittedly a viable option but that’s also really wishful thinking.
It really is the best option for I mean this is a college town the police fucking up and killing the students in the hostage rescue probably pretty high up on the don’t do list. Hell if they’re really that paranoid about it go to the U.S. representative about it so she can put the fear of god into that police department when you tell them.
Same, Walky. Same.
I’m black but growing up in never thought of myself as black. It wasn’t until I moved to a majority black community that I really started identifying with other black people.
Sensible Sarah is Sensible
Also I fuckin love Walky lmao
The fact that he still sticks to the party line that “the safety of your friends here and in the hospital depends on your compliance” makes me sad. Also how does he not recognise that his willingness to threaten a dude in a coma decreases his perceived trustworthiness??
Love how Walky is literally so used to passing privilege he forgets it isn’t a guarantee in the sense that it creates comic relief… In reality, that this is so deeply engrained probably explains a lot about the character but wow is that messed up…
(In the context of him having a twin sister whose life has been constantly affected by racism… Although the fact that a lot of it came from their parents definitely makes that worse!)
Yeeeep! Walky’s started to realize that he was in fact the Favorite and there may well have been some Choices by Linda that started before he and Sal could be meaningfully different people, and maybe there’s a reason for that, but it’s one of those plots that hasn’t been at the forefront for a while. (He also hasn’t put together the fact that his mom’s crushing expectations for him/constant disparagement and abandonment of Sal are a part of that as well, and just how badly THAT’S fucking him up too – a chunk of his grades angst has to do with how he NEEDS an effortless A to maintain his position as the Smart One so his mom will still approve of him, but that’s only really come up periodically and that plot’s been a SLOW burn.)
Lets be honest, Willis has really moved away from that at this point. That story could have been told by now, instead we have superhero’s fighting supervillian’s and toes.
It’s likely to come back around. This arc isn’t going to take over the entire strip forever.
Yeah, especially given
– we KNOW from preview panels that Linda’s making an appearance next arc,
– The plot has been on the backburner, but it’s still GOING – Linda’s racism was a key factor in the events leading up to Sal robbing the convenience store, and Walky’s fear of disappointing Linda was an explicit thing he discussed on Garbage Roof,
– Willis has played slow burn on a LOT of arcs – we spent years between the first phone call from ‘Sir’ and Clint’s in-person appearance, or between the last time we saw Alice and the recent reveal that she was IN THE CAR WITH BILLIE when it crashed. Ryan’s, Blaine’s, and Ross’s appearances were likewise years apart, and Ross and Ryan’s reappearances weren’t really foreshadowed until suddenly, they were there. A couple pointed reminders in the last few years is still a clear sign that arc’s running.
Hell, I think we went an entire BOOK without actual Amazi-Girl appearances. There’s a lot of dishes spinning here.
Giving him WAY too much credit. Chances are he’s just repeating what Blaine told him they’re doing. This is not someone who interested in anyone or anything in the Real World beyond using it all for the little puppet show going on in his head. Blaine seems to be aware of that.
“The Ends justify the Means.”
Whatever actions, no matter how heinous or reprehensible or monstrous, are vindicated by the End Result. No sin has been committed when the “Righteous are triumphant.
By Ross’ standards, which sadly does very much exist in Real Life, any casualties “deserved” what they got if Ross goals are attained.
I think Ross is bizarrely less committed to this than Blaine and Joyce Mom.
Which is all sorts of horrifying.
what if Amber Calls hank ?
I’m not sure that she knows Hank, and also feel like her thoughts right now wouldn’t be in the field of, “You know who you can turn to when times get rough? Dads.” I also don’t think Joyce would really get a chance to suggest it.
I was going to see that I’d be interested to see what Hank would do all the same, but, I mean, step one would probably be calling the police.
What if she calls Mr. Warner? I wonder if he’s really who he appears to be.
The Warner Parents DO seem like the nicest people on Earth. Which, of course, begs the question of WHY their son confidently declares “None are righteous. not even one.”
Which is why I’m hoping Mr. Warner is an interrogator for the CIA who will like to have a long chat with the man who hurt his boy.
He possibly thinks they’re oblivious to the bad things in the world, which is not a good thing. Or simply, being his family, he is aware of any number of their flaws and failings.
I just saw the tweet about the mug, and realised the symbolism of Blaine operating a fake carpentry business.
Blaine couldn’t be more of the literal anti-Christ if he tried.
So I’m “white with a tan”, and I basically got gaslit in high school into saying I was whatever people assumed I was so they would shut up.
(I mean, AFAIK I’m white, but there’s clearly something recessive in there that shows up every couple of generations. No, I don’t give anywhere near enough of a shit to get a DNA test. What I really want is for people to stop asking.)
TL;DR, people get WEIRD about ambiguous race.
Those DNA tests for regional origins are junk anyway. I saw a news item about a pair of identical twins who were given different result.
If your “tan” has a yellowish tinge, then the term for that skin tone is tawny.
It is commonly found in Mediterranean Europeans – ie Spain, southern Italy, and similar. Spain is where I get my tawny tones.
Mom’s got the same biz going on. People keep thinking she’s Greek or Indian.
Man, I really need to stop assuming that people look like their Gravatars.
Yeah. You’d be in for a surprise if you ever met me.
What, you mean you aren’t a sentient black swan? I am shocked, truly shocked.
Yeah, that checks out (the yellowish-tinged tan part).
I’m an immigrant from the UK > US, too, and my family tree as far back as I know is British for a really long-ass time. My siblings are pale and blonde. Recessive genes are a thing!
I am similar, my mother’s side of the family is Scottish, my dad’s is Irish, by rights I should burst into flame when exposed to the sun. I have slightly darkish skin and get really dark when I tan. The family lore is that there was some intermingling with the scots and shipwrecked Spanish sailors when the English destroyed the Spanish armada.
On one hand not calling the police in this situation is kind of a dumb move, but on the other hand I’m black myself so I do understand Sarah’s perspective here, even if I personally I believe it’s an innaccurate take for this specific situation. No way police are gonna shoot the people tied up, systemic racism or not, but I get it.
See, you would hope, but people have been shot by police for just being at home or, worse, calling the police when their homes are broken into. I definitely think calling the police should be an option but I can’t think Sarah’s unreasonable here.
Hell, people have been shot by cops because their homes were broken into by the police. “Funny” enough, they always happen to be black.
Nah, not always. Sometimes they’re Hispanic or Native American instead.
(Fun fact, per capita Native Americans actually manage to pull a higher rate of “officer related shootings” than anybody else.)
I don’t think Sarah’s opinion is unrealistic or even unjustified, I just think in this situation where they are all tied up, with two white hostages as well, in a confined space, taken hostage by a masked psycho with mob connections and a convicted criminal out on bail, it would take officers specifically looking to kill black people to think Walky and Sarah were a threat in this situation.
I know it’s become common to distrust cops (I do) but I also think it’s a very jaded, and nihilistic worldview to believe that in any situation where law enforcement is involved they will make the worst decision possible and kill innocent people. That’s just not been my experience and I say that as a person who gets nervous during traffic stops and has personal negative experience with law enforcement in my family.
I think it’s less ‘every cop will definitely make the worst decision possible’ and more ‘what is the worst possible outcome of involving them and how do we account for that’. Sarah votes they account for that by not involving the police.
I mean, it’s not even EVERY cop, is it? Like, if the cops are called they’re not just to bring in a couple of uniforms into this, and all it takes is ONE trigger-happy mofo out of the lot.
Who’s going to look at the pile of tied up kids on the floor, see that one or two of them are black and start shooting? I don’t buy it. Certainly not more likely than someone getting killed if they all just go along with whatever the kidnappers want. Or, in the real world, a rescue attempt by some college kids.
Of course, this isn’t the real world and thus the rescue attempt by college kids is probably the best option.
Black people have been shot while they were on the ground with their hands behind their head so Sarah’s not wrong on that. I think she’s less worried they’ll just start shooting when they see them than they’ll come in guns blazing (depressingly common in American hostage ‘rescues’) and in a split second shoot one of them before it registers they’re a hostage because ‘scary’.
A couple years back, in Florida if I recall correctly, a therapist was dealing with an autistic man who was having a meltdown in the street outside his group home. Someone called the cops. When they arrived, the autistic man was sitting on the ground, playing with a truck; the therapist, when he saw police arriving, lay on the ground face-up with his hands in the air. The therapist was shot.
I’m sure it’s completely coincidental that the man with his hands in the air, who was shot by police, was black, while the man acting oddly with the metallic object in his hands, who was not shot, was white…
“Two white hostages”? Dorothy, Joyce — and not Ethan because he’s Jewish?
No. I honestly just forgot the numbers.
Dorothy has mentioned before once that she is Irish and Jewish (though she doesn’t follow the religion obviously) when Robin was in the class.
I’m Ashkenazic and consider myself eggshell; I’m white unless I’m standing next to white folks.
The white hostages are key here. Cops are much less likely to shoot when whites are involved. Hypothetically, the others could step in front of Sarah and Walky to protect them, if they thought of that.
Sarah didn’t think this it out far enough, which is to be expected under the circumstances.
I agree. One black woman was shot through her window by police who were called to do a wellness check on her. A black man was shot by an off-duty police officer who went into his apartment, and who claimed she thought it was hers and that he was an intruder.
He was eating ice cream at her in a hostile manner.
There’s also the problem that even if there is the risk Sarah describes, this situation is extreme enough, there aren’t a lot of other options. Other than relying on the superhero, of course.
For wellness checks and petty crime, there’s definitely an argument the cops often make things worse, but this is a mob linked multiple kidnapping where death threats have already been made.
The more likely bad outcome of getting the cops involved is that Blaine or his mooks get enough warning to carry out their threats of killing a hostage, not that the cops will decide to shoot the bound black kids lying next to the bound white kids.
Yeah, I’m most worried about police arrival as a ‘Ross and Blaine start killing hostages’ scenario. (I don’t doubt authorities WILL get involved eventually, because yeah, there’s no way this situation de-escalates without the bad dads being taken out of the comic longterm in some way or other, but I’m betting Amber’s goal is going to be to get everyone else to safety BEFORE the SWAT teams arrive.)
you’re assuming these are…well…professional police, thejeff. which largely don’t exist that close to any major city. Urban cops are the worst for trigger-happy incidents involving minorities. A black person is safer dealing with a hayseed deputy in rural Alabama, than they are dealing with cops from Chicago, indianapolis, or Milwaukee. (or New York, or Seattle, or San Francisco, or Los Angeles…)
No, I’m assuming nothing of the kind.
In many circumstances, calling the cops is a really bad idea if any minorities are involved. I wouldn’t be saying this if it were a fist fight or even a robbery.
But we’re currently dealing with a gang of kidnappers and death threats. Realistically the alternative to the cops is hoping they didn’t really mean it and they’ll just let everyone go. Or relying on a couple of your college friends to take on the gang in a big dramatic fight scene. (Which, given the dramatic neceseties, is actually likely to work out, but I wouldn’t count on it in real life.)
Yeah, the cops are trigger-happy, dangerous to minorities. This situation is already bad enough that risk is still better than the alternatives.
The calculus can be different when you’re the one at extra risk of being shot though. I can’t fault Sarah for wanting to keep potential guns to a minimum.
This is a kidnapping case, if the police get involved (given the comic we are dealing with, that is a big if), they would know who was kidnapped and what they look like. Unlikely any of them would get shot, particularly if they are still tied up and in the basement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TGlNs7jp7o
White supremacists have been deliberately joining police forces.
Police forces don’t screen for white supremacists (or if they do, they don’t do anything unless the white supremacist does something publicly racist, and gets broadcast on the news).
Sarah may be paranoid, but being paranoid doesn’t mean that they aren’t out to get you.
Yes the US has massive trouble with police shooting at black people for no discernible reason, but you are assuming they will be stupid enough to fire at at bunch of people some of whom are white in a situation where it’s impossible to only hit one person.
CJ, the kind of police we’re discussing are the kind that need forty rounds and two magazine changes to shoot a wood-carver in the back in Seattle…at less than seven yards, with a 9mm handgun. They’re the kind of police that required slightly over 170 rounds of .223 rifle ammunition to gun down a man in his doorway in Phoenix in broad daylight while executing a bogus search warrant and stealing the medals he brought back from his tour in Afghanistan. These are the sort of police that mistake a ten year old with a phone for an adult with a gun. These are the police that give a REASON for groups like Black Lives Matter to form. Y’see, there’s a fundamental flaw in how we screen and train law enforcement in our major urban areas and bigger cities-we give them more leeway than the DoD gives marines in Fallujah who are under fire, but we don’t screen out the sociopaths, latent psychopaths, or narcissists. as a result, you get hypermilitarized ‘cowboy’ cops in the big cities. (the sort that are also shockingly prone to being corrupt cops who act more as muscle for the organized crime and regime protection details for whichever political machine happens to run said city) thing is, these narcissistic sociopaths are also amazingly bad shots, tend NOT watch the backstop when they discharge their weapons, and very well might be in Blaine’s hip pocket because the odds are very good he’s got more than a few of them on his payroll and the rest will hold the line to keep the dirtbags in badges instead of ejecting the scumbags from their ranks. (Police unions spend a lot of time keeping crooked scumbags on the force instead of letting them get disciplined or fired.)
Notably, scumbag psychopath cops don’t predominate in areas where police aren’t allowed to have that union protection when they kill/maim/steal from someone using the badge and “Sovereign immunity” statutes.
Dude, if you expect them to shoot when they go into a situation where they
A) Know there is a bunch of college student hostages
B) Someone who wants to be re-elected is involved and she could really make a mile high stink about any mishandling of the situation
C) Student have been kidnapped from Campus and the Univesity Administration has already trouble with its reputation after the Ryan incident, so the University needs this to be resolved without damaging the students.
you expect each and every police person there to be raving sociopathic maniacs.
Even the maniacs avoid killing people who are well connected and have establishment on their side. They are just cowards who kick down where they don’t expect to be held responsible.
That shouldn’t be funny to me.
Teary-eyed Ethan has me wondering if a LGBT conversation is gonna start between him and Toedad given the former’s affection for Mike and the latter’s disapproval of Becky.
Not expecting Toedad to get better, just thought this might come up.
I don’t think Toedad knows Ethan’s gay, and I don’t think he cares about “fixing” anyone except Becky.
Just saying it might come up if Ethan says something. Not saying Ross knows or cares, just a possibility.
I don’t think outing yourself to someone who’s willing to kill over the fact that his daughter is gay is a great idea. Ethan is being held hostage with several of his friends. He can’t get out of there if Ross decides to be anything more than indifferent to that information (like deciding Ethan must have been a bad influence on Becky).
Oof yeah. Good point.
Okay Toe wants nothing to do with Blaine’s plan beyond getting Becky. Not ideal but that’s…a start.
And yeah I feel you Sarah, I wouldn’t want to deal with the police anymore than I have to. If they’ll kill you when someone breaks into your home they’ll definitely kill you as a hostage in the middle of chaos.
I would not go to the Police.
This is kidnapping. I would go to the FEDS.
Feds are for tracking down the kidnappers once they’re found they use local police
Or for tracking down people who commit federal crimes or federal-adjascent crimes. Like kidnapping a Congresswoman’s campaign manager. Or kidnapping in general.
I think Vukodiak’spoint is that these people are already tracked. We already know where they are. And they can’t move, because if they do then Amber can’t bring Becky to them, which sort of ruins the whole plan.
I was wondering this as well. Since this is a kidnapping case, wouldn’t the FBI get involved, not the local cops?
Okay, so I’m going to walk through/speculate on Amber’s options.
Going to the police is out. Even without those threats and Sarah’s concerns, Amber doesn’t really do the whole police thing. She might be willing to let AG out of the box, but AG had trouble with just Blaine and Toedad, not counting all the extras. Who does that leave?
Amber can’t really go recruiting everyone’s friends, because she doesn’t KNOW anyone else. … except Sal, and Malaya, and Marcie, and Danny, and Dina. Sal and Dina might be useful here. Danny and Amber can probably get access to Mike’s hospital room by playing the childhood friend card, meaning Amber can be on-hand to protect him. Malaya could, if nothing else, distract Faz.
Amber can also give Becky all the details. Becky would do almost anything to help out Joyce, and she’s a pretty fast and devious thinker in a pinch. She’s also the one person that everyone’s guaranteed to let into the building, though obviously that’s a high-risk play.
Becky could also contact Hank. Hank could, say, contact their reverend who MIGHT be amenable to talking Toedad down if he’s got his cell phone on him. (Wouldn’t 100% bet on it, but I’d lay better than 50/50 odds.) I don’t think Becky would trust this approach, though, and she might not see any value in involving Hank. Becky might also get Billie involved, and that could get Ruth involved. I could see Ruth trying to handle things without involving the cops or college security.
Also, Becky probably knows Ross’s phone number, and Amber might have the skills to hack that. We haven’t seen that level of skill out of her yet, but it’s not too much of a stretch.
Anything else coming to anyone’s mind?
Go to the media? Like, via Becky&Robin? If that doesn’t scare off the extras, i don’t know what will. And while they’re distracted, have them free themselves via the various implements i assume Amber had secreted on her body but has undoubtedly been able to access and hand off or drop by now. Remember, Batman is an escape artist and ninja as well…
It’s Amazi-Girl who’s Always Prepared, not Amber.
Don’t go to the police. Contact your local congresswoman instead. At least she’ll be someone seeking some kind of redemption (and maybe votes.)
As much as I think Robin’s an unreliable flake, this might be their best play (or at least their best play with societal authority figures).
Yea, that was going to be my suggestion as well. Also, the first move should be for Amber to sneak into the hospital and get Mike somewhere safe.
At least she’ll be someone seeking votes.
Buuut Robin probably isn’t all that competent to handle this without calling in someone like the police, she won’t care much about the hostages, and Amber doesn’t have much of a relationship with her that she could appeal to anyway.
Imagine a mob of pallet-swapped Thomas Magnum clones in Uggs swarming Toedad and the Blaine’s hideout… That’s sure to end well.
That Sarah says “overmilitarized” instead of “militarized” makes me think she thinks the problem is that the mini-armies of occupation shouldn’t be quite so heavy-handed about their militarization, which is a nice bit of pro-establishment bias characterization for a lawyer-y person
The thing about the US’s militarised police is that, until you get some half-way decent gun control going over there that means that any violent half-wit with a few hundred bucks can get their hands on a semi-automatic machine of mass murder, you can’t have a demilitarised police even if every member of the police were a saint.
If Amazi-Girl abducts Becky as Ross seems to intend, Ross won’t need to do anything to leave AG in the frame.
Amazi-Girl could also talk to Becky.
Indeed. I’m just pointing out that Ross’s assurance “I’ll do no such thing” is disingenuous at best.
So the mask does not protect Walky from being identified.
For it to actually be a good disguise, his cheeks would need to change color.
…Now I’m wondering if amazagirl has been drawn with different colored cheeks this whole time as an artistic choice and I just didn’t notice
She has. The cheeks have always been the big tell for Amber vs. Amazi-Girl, not the costume – we’ve seen Amber in full costume (when Amber first did Garbage Roof with Walky), and Amazi-Girl without the costume at all (when Amazi-Girl broke up with Danny).
It’s a real shame that Amber’s been shorting herself on sleep. This is exactly the sort of situation that needs Amber alert.
I see what you did there.
It was kinda CRAZY GOOD! Wasn’t it.
Clap.
/long pause/
Clap.
/long pause/
A+
Is that a Jojo reference, Willis?!
Also, I know what Sarah is worried about, but it is better to get the police than be at the hands of those sociopaths. Seriously, it is because of distrust in the police that Sal persuaded Joyce not to testify against Ryan. Why do Americans have such a fucked up police system? Why do we Mexicans have an even more fucked up police system?! Seriously! British cops don’t carry guns and Japan’s cops carry a respectful job. If only cops in the Americas weren’t so racist and corrupt the organized criminals wouldn’t be so powerful!
Because America is and always has been racist. The police simply reflect that.
No one thought Walky looked scary
I would be surprised if Amber does call the police after she’s released. I’m assuming she’ll go Amazi-Girl and get help from Sal and possibly other fellow students.
As long as we’re talking bad plans, Amber brings them Becky so that she gets the blame and then permanently becomes Amazigirl.
This is problematic narratively. Involving the police the SECOND it becomes feasible to do so is the only sensible thing to do. The second we deviate from that we jump into zany Scooby-Doo logic.
I see in fiction a lot where the by-the-book solution people would actually do is considered like, too boring so the characters are charmed into doing something needlessly complicated. “No Huck, we can’t just walk out of the dangerous situation and be glad! We need to chain Jim to the bedpost first!”
Take, I dunno, an example where a jet airliner has both pilots incapacitated. The textbook answer is maybe someone gets on the radio or uses a cell phone to get step by step instructions from ground control from an expert on how to land. That’s still pretty exciting even though all your’e doing is following procedure. But no! What if that’s too boring!? Instead of that, let’s have our characters pull out a Oujia board and try and contact their dead grandpa who used to be a pilot! Isn’t that MORE INTERESTING?!
No. It isn’t. When characters take serious threats un-seriously, it makes the whole emotional tension un-serious. Getting a plane down even following FAA procedure is still a pretty tense situation, made all the more tense by people trying to use the very best plan they can to solve it and realizing it still could go wrong.
“And DON’T just run to the police”
Why the HELL not? Ross hasn’t given one reason why they shouldn’t. And doing the opposite of what he wants is a pretty good starting point.
“I’m WAY less scared of these bozos”
Well, I guess we the audience shouldn’t take them seriously then. They’ve 1) Successfully kidnapped multiple of you 2) Claimed to have injured and hospitalized Mike to within an inch of his life, a claim backed up by available information of no one has seen him on an important midterm day, and the fact they know who Mike is which they wouldn’t if they hadn’t at least met him.
But sure, if we think the professional law enforcement is so trigger happy they’re just going to gun down bounded hostages, then whatever.
Grab the Ouija Board, we’re gonna solve this OUR WAY.
I find your criticism valid and insightful.
Assuming this isn’t sarcasm (it’s hard to know on the internet), uh… thanks.
Ah good, you’ve found the reason why black people will often not just turn to the police when they get in trouble and have to solve issues with criminals using . . . any other means.
Anyway, cops have shot the black dude (who was a carer) laying on the floor with his arms up while not a single person was being violent.
Yeah, I know about that kind of thing, and it’s terrible. I saw a video of a cop “bravely” shooting a black guy in the back as he ran away unarmed. This is of course super wrong. De-escalation training apparently works really well and all police should be trained to use the minimum force first.
Despite all that, I’m not aware of police killing tied up, college kid, female hostages in a hostage situation because they’re black. Or at all. Not killing the hostages is kind of a thing police try for.
Blaine as good as said if they don’t cooperate, he WILL kill them like he nearly did, and is still willing to kill, Mike. To say “yeah that’s bad and all, but I’m so sure the police are even more likely to kill us and represent the greater threat that I’ll take my chances with this guy” strains credibility. They’ve been here for five minutes, it’s too early for Stockholm Syndrome.
We’re not calling in the cops because we need to not have the cops involved narratively for whatever comic-book showdown Willis has planned for us. Fine, I guess. But the reason is “because racism”? I’m having a hard time.
“Call the COPS? Are you crazy? I’ll take my chances with the deranged, wheezing, mask-wearing self-admitted manslaughterer/murderer, thanks.”
The kidnappers are at least willing to have a conversation, as awful of a conversation as it is. The cops, unfortunately, do not always even do that, and it absolutely is because of racism.
You’re right. They should be trained in deescalation. They often aren’t. Some of the MANY stories of cops shooting first and asking questions later happened in Indiana (admittedly, I’m unaware of any that happened in Bloomington, specifically, but remember that Bloomington, as liberal as it is, is still in Indiana. The fundie group is pretty realistic for Indiana, and neo-nazi/KKK-affiliated groups absolutely are active in Bloomington. Look up the Schooner’s Creek Farm drama). “Call the COPS? Are you crazy? I’ll take my chances with the deranged, wheezing, mask-wearing self-admitted manslaughterer/murderer, thanks.” is not as outrageous as it sounds when the former is someone you have to gamble will be a good cop instead of the cop that will shoot you without asking questions, and the second one is at least making coherent demands, and probably less competent with a gun. At least Sarah already knows what she’s getting with the latter. Should they still try to call the cops, despite the risk? Yea, probably. Is Sarah’s apprehension understandable, though? Definitely.
Now, there’s actually three different police forces in Bloomington. There’s IUPD, BPD, and the Monroe County Sheriff. I’m admittedly curious which one’s jurisdiction they are in right now, since we don’t know where they’re at. Since they are talking about just letting Amber loose in the yard and expect Amber/AZ to be able to easily get to Becky on her own, I’m guessing they are in city limits, and off campus but close to it, so they could find either of the first two. They are probably closest to BPD.
Now that I think about it, speaking of IUPD, the fact that the mob/fundies/whoever managed to pull off this kidnapping without getting IUPD’s attention is…very suspicious. Especially after a FIRE ALARM was pulled. That should have drawn their attention MORE. I’m a little worried that the mob has pulled some more strings than we know.
It’s almost like this is a reason why the Thin Blue Line mentality, which prioritizes defending guilty, abusive cops over all else, only makes society less safe and makes crime more likely to happen.
Because if people are afraid of the police, THEY’RE NOT GOING TO CALL THE POLICE WHEN THEY NEED THEM.
I more or less agree with this. I have a personal creed of solving things at the lowest and involving police in anything as the last of last resorts.
But kidnapping me and my friends, transporting us to the secondary location, raving about how he injured one of my friends so badly said friend is now in the hospital, and how he has a plausible plan to have said friend killed, is so far bonkers getting the police involved is the only sane plan. Not “Oh, you silly bozo, you”.
And definitely not “Oh hey, we should assist this madman in bringing who he wants back here. That’s probably not aiding and abetting a crime! Which I would reasonably know if I were a pre-law student. OH WAIT I AM.”
Sarah is not suggesting they help kidnap Becky. She’s only expressing her extremely valid concerns about involving police
Cops have never been anywhere as good at deescalating hostage situations as TV would have you believe. Even WITHOUT factoring in their frequent racism, their ever increasing militarization has made them really good at killing innocent bystanders
Amber/AG would be working under TEXTBOOK coercion if she delivered Becky (“Do it or I’ll kill X person”) and so no, actually, probably not.
Well put Shane. What I always found hillarious is that _Airplane_ managed to do this insanely well. And it had an actual pilot available to land the plane WITH ground control guidance. Despite being a very goofy commedy they still managed to have a sense of suspense around the crisis.
Yes the cops in the states are excessive and problematic. However that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t still be the first step in dealing with a hostage situation. But, does making this point several times reflect a personal bias from priviledge?
Unfortunately, in this case, Bloomington does have a record of police violence against blacks. In 1983 BPD shot Denver Smith under extremely suspicious circumstances shortly before he was supposed to graduate IU. Sarah’s reaction may make sense. Basic google searches didn’t turn up much, but that is not evidence of absence. Another story (Indianna Public Media: Vigil against Police Brutality, 2014) quotes a Rev Kort saying they have a good PD in Bloomington (the vigil was about a murder in Missouri). I see it as a toss-up, but I didn’t grow up in a culture of police violence.
Sarah’s response to the idea of cops is 100% understandable and reasonable. ACAB is a thing for a reason.
Walky is half-black, as opposed to Sarah’s full-black.
There’s not a non racist punchline there so let me use my soapbox to say that my foolish idea to use my actual name of my username means it’s forever tied to the dipshit Ryan in the comic.
Yeah, but you are the Cool Ryan. Not the extremely uncool one.
She could always start by going to the hospital and taking out the goons hovering over Mike. Might also be a useful check on Blaine and Toedad’s veracity to see if Mike really is there.
Duh…. which hospital? You could start with the University Health Center, but if he’s not there then what? There’s bound to be more than one medical center in a city the size of Bloomington.
And there’s no guarantee that the hospital in question is in Bloomington, since the bad dads have a limousine at their disposal.
For that matter the hospital offers a “kill the patient on request” service, so it’s probably an orthopaedic centre for racehorses.
Sarah, whilst I agree that SWAT training and culture in the US could definitely use a tune-up, I really think that you’re afraid of the wrong thing here.
If by “our helpers” he means members of his church, then that might happen. Probably won’t even then though. If however they’re “members of the Korean mob acting on favours Blaine has called in” or “members of Blaine’s family” then hell no that ain’t gonna work. And Ross is so blinkered and dumb i honestly don’t know which is more likely here.
Ross has already referred to the helpers as “your hires” when addressing Blaine. If they are members of Ross’s church he mus be feeling suddenly cynical.
As an European, the only scarier thing than the concerns in this comic is the comment section validating them.
*Team America theme song intensifies*
That movie needs a sequel:
Team America – World: *eyeroll* “Puh-lease”.
As a fellow european, I agree and add that those same concerns are also being validated in Europe nowdays,
In my country, police is taught to not shoot unless there really is no other way. And I think that’s a good thing. They get a whole lot of deescalation lessons.
Ostensibly, so do American cops.
American cops have been fired for successfully deescalating rather than shooting first and asking questions later.
That’s right, Walky! Prepare to be a statistic!
I’d be worried that Sarah thinks that the police would be worse than Blaine and Ross actively killing them. But given the statistics and the idiocy of this campus so far–she may just be accurate in her interpretation of the danger.
The FBI actually has been ordered to not designate white male shooters like Ross as domestic terrorists for example.
“The FBI actually has been ordered to not designate white male shooters like Ross as domestic terrorists for example.”
Seriously?? :O Even by the standards of the Trump administration that beggars belief.
Ross isn’t a domestic terrorist. Not because he’s white, but because his motives are personal, not political.
I’m not sure it’s true in the larger sense either. The FBI stepped up its efforts against right-wing extremists earlier this year. It’s certainly true that they’ve long downplayed that threat.
Well his motives are religious and he’s assaulting a public institution on ideological grounds. If it’s a distinction, it’s a distinction without a difference, IMHO.
He’s not assaulting a public institution, though. THe assault just happens to take place there. If you shoot someone in a chicken factory farm over the correct way to hang toilet paper*, that’s not a protest on animal cruelty.
*It hangs FORWARD, of course.
How many students of the University does he have to kidnap before it counts as “assaulting a public institution”?
Also, unlike the chicken factory (which would have commercial large spool dispensers, nullifying the TP debate in their context), IU is the institution Ross thinks is responsible for corrupting Joyce and Becky. So he is definitely a candidate white domestic terrorist.
One, but it would have to be BECAUSE they’re students of the university.
He’s committing violent crimes in the name of his creed, trying to accomplish his goals through fear. yeah he’s a domestic terrorist.
How would he think IU has corrupted Becky? Becky went to Anderson and her initial sin was committed there. She doesn’t even go to IU. He’s not trying to do anything to IU, he’s only here because his daughter is nearby.
No, it really is a difference. He’s trying to kidnap his daughter. He’s not trying to make any political statement or change public policy or even terrorize anyone outside of his immediate agenda. Religion’s all tied up in his motivations, but he’s not trying to spread his creed, just reclaim what he considers his property. This is domestic violence, not terrorism.
I’m pretty sure that Amber/AG won’t bring Becky. But she might go to warn her — and on learning that Joyce is in danger, Becky might run out anyway.
An idea I had * is that Amber/AG collects the most athletic kids from the floor (Carla, Ruth, Sal, maybe Billie since Ruth’s call woke her), and Carla, Ruth, and Billie stage a distraction/frontal assault while A/AG+Sal attempt the rescue.
=____________________________________________________________
*: really, my guesses never come out, so put no faith in this
I see Becky contacting Robin and Robin bringing her private army of mercenaries.
“Congressperson Learns of Kidnapping in Progress, Deploys Vigilante Mercenary Response Instead of Contacting Law Enforcement” isn’t a headline that’s even remotely sane for a politician to consider.
This is a universe with Donald Trump as President. In such a silly cartoonish world, she will win her election by a landslide.
You’re confusing the cartoonish absurd world with orange bleeding in the white pallet, with a comic book. I don’t think Willis has listed Trump as president, so presumably the current POTUS doesn’t weigh in. He wasn’t in when the semester started, and even if re-elected (probably at this rate) he won’t still be in office when the semester ends.
Joe has made a (Willis-confirmed-to-be) President Trump joke at Dorothy’s expense, and – though this second example was posted earlier in 2016 – Carla also once referred to Dorothy as “Little Miss Hillary Clinton Junior” in a derogatory context.
There’s also the “Dumbing of Age is always set in the present year, it’s a sliding-timescale” thing, which means that the comic is currently set in October of 2020.
Yikes, shots fired!
…no wAIT, I DIDN’T MEAN-
There seems to be no way out. Of course, they might be so lucky that they have external help, or some key may be released once AG returns with her full memory of what happened the night before, but it seems that they will be saved in the end by Ross keeping his word once he has Becky back, at the cost of dying or being seriously hurt in the process.
Toedad plz… There’s still time to maybe only be the second-worst father in this comic…
Walky : “oh”
Toedad really should get a clue at this point “hey, he insist on having AG bringing her, but then we’re letting everyone go” pfft
It they cut her loose in the yard she’s going to know the whereabouts of the secondary location.
Maybe it’s an unoccupied house Blaine’s company is renovating. It’s not as obvious as using his own place, and there would be a plausible reason for his vans and crew to be there.
Where-ever it is, if Amber knows where it is she can send SWAT and police hostage negotiators. And then the bad dads have no way to win, just a choice between death and centuries in prison. So it is bad technique on the kidnappers’ part to divulge the location to Amber.
She HAS to know the whereabouts of the secondary location. How else would she bring Becky there?
To have here bring Becky there is a bad plan. For a plan that has some way of working she should bring Becky to a rendezvous.
I mean, I don’t disagree with you, I’m just trying to figure out why you’re implicitly attributing any degree of competence to THOSE two.
This is going all Coen Brothers. Whether Ross ends up feeding Blaine through the wood-chipper or vice versa, the evil scheme is a gruesome comedy of errors that is falling apart so fast people are getting hurt by the shrapnel.
At least in Scooby Doo the plan would have worked if not of the interfering kids. This is just stupid.
Robin might get a chance to redeem herself if she actually helps.
I live in Europe (Poland) and why our police can be incompetent or even unnecessarily brutal, I just can’t imagine them being told of kidnapped college students and sending our equivalent of SWAT – who, then, would gun down college-aged, tied-down people just because they were Black.
I know USA isn’t Poland and I know there have been some really awful incidents with cops there… still, I really have trouble believing that systemic racism so strong and so prevalent among US cops that a typical SWAT unit starts shooting the moment they catch a glimpse of a Black person… Even if said person is lying down, all tied up and next to non-Black people in the same situation.
(and if the situation is really that bad, then… holy crap)
Overall, I still say Amber should go to the police. Trying to mount some amateur rescue attempt is just insanity.
The three murders that come to mind are:
1) mistaking a black dude’s home for their own and shooting them when they get up form the couch;
2) shooting a black dude when he’s claming walking away with his (empty) hands in the air because they “felt threatened”;
3) shooting a black dude that was already apprehended, lying face down on the ground with his hands behind his head.
Am I’m neither black nor American – I’m sure someone checking either or both of those boxes is aware of more stuff.
Coming from poland you should know that the tone of your skin very well determines if you’re found guilty of everything.
German here, and I find the developments in poland (and many parts of europe) highly worrisome.
It’s not quite THAT bad. They’re far, far too high as is, and there’s a big racial disparity in who the victims are, but it’s not something that most SWAT units do. If it was, police shootings would be 100 times worse in this country. Most cases work out the way they’re supposed to, but when it goes wrong it goes horrifically wrong, and a small percentage of a large number of incidents adds up to a pretty large number of its own.
Even a 1% chance is too high in theory. When you’re the person liable to get shot, it’s way, way, way too high in practice. It’s the same principle whereby homophobic violence might be deplorable to straight allies, but it’s nowhere near as alarming for those allies as it is for the lgbt crowd.
Also, stray bullets.
And this wouldn’t be a typical case. A forced entry into confined quarters against multiple, possibly-armed felons is exactly the sort of situation where trigger fingers might get twitchy. Turning a corner to see someone three feet away from you, where you have a split second to register whether they’re a threat or not, under a high stress situation where a false negative (mistakenly deciding that someone’s not a threat) can get you and your fellow officers killed, is the sort of thing that is guaranteed up the rate of false positives. It’s also the sort of snap-judgement situation where implicit bias might carry the most weight. Add in that the Bloomington CIRT (what they call their SWAT team) can’t have anywhere near the sort of experience as a similar team in a major city, and you’ve got something close to a worst-case scenario.
Overall, Sarah’s PROBABLY exaggerating how bad it would be, either for emphasis or because she’s accentuating the negative because that’s what a Sarah does. Getting shot by police during a “rescue” is a risk, but far from a sure thing.
Yeah I’m concerned that most european people are okay with racism since years, as long as it only concerns people with bad reputation – like, say, romani people. It’s been decades that they are in literal camps, and everyone does as Europe was a liberal heaven all the while.
It was. Just not for everyone. 😐
Germany, for example, has still a hard time admitting that the nazis never went away completely and racism is a thing. Even if it’s not as institutionalized as it is in the US (at least a small silver lining) and the nazis are still a minority.
And, yes, France‘s way of treating the romani people is not something to be proud of either.
There is still much to be done.
Yet the risk of getting shot for being black is highest in the US. By far. So, yeah, I would not welcome a squad of gun-toting hooligans on adrenaline either, if I were in Sarah‘s place.
sorry, if only it was just France… but in Hungary they are in work camps. Not speaking from other country where it doesn’t matter to kill/injure a romani because “they aren’t really people”. Other example in Switzerland with the Yenishes who were forced to become steril. But you’re right France has one of the toughest shit, bc, even now, there are some people using a kind of forced sterilization on black carribean people – which makes it systemic.
Also I’m not comparing the situation of blacks in the US and romani in Europe in terms of body count, but saying that even at a lower level, there are people in the land of the interlocutor that are possibly shot without any remorse and proof of anything by the police
While Sarah has reason to be worried, I think she’s dramatically underestimating the dangers of being murdered here.
Compared to a police response, not really. Odds are p even.
Yeah. If Mike, Ross, anyone else who knows Blaine is involved, or anyone who heard heard Ball-Peen ranting about his daughter survives this, then Blaine and his hires are going to prison for several hundred years each. Which means the probability of Blaine or one of his hires trying to kill Mike, Ross, and all six hostages is 100%.
The cops would have to be pretty bad to be worse than that.
Been reading this comic since day 1 and all the others before it, but this? This was the last straw. Trying to paper over your giant gaping “how come the cops aren’t involved?” plot hole by resorting to having Sarah mouth the “afraid police will kill me because I’m the wrong color, rather have the criminals than them” sentiment is the final straw. Sarah, who expects to work in the legal field, so distrusts the police in a small college town not to kill her out of race hatred that she’d rather be left in the hands of a religious zealot and a madman who thinks he’s a supervillain. You’ve gone from absurdist to unreadable with this out-of-the-blue, out-of-character idiocy, and I am done with it for good.
Couple of my black employees have confided the absolute terror they feel when they get pulled over, which is surprisingly often given that they consciously drive careful to avoid being pulled over. So, not that unrealistic.
That’s certainly granted. When the stakes start out low, getting the police involved makes it significantly more dangerous for black people. During the middle of a violent crime where the criminals already claim to have put one person in the hospital and are threatening to kill him and the rest of you? Seems a little different to me.
Yeah. Blaine and Ross have no way of staying out of prison unless Mike and all the hostages are dead. The only way anyone gets out of this alive is if they aren’t actually willing to kill in cold blood.
Th e police have to be pretty bad to be a worse prospect than that.
The problem is not Blaine and Ross staying out prison. It is not an investigation concluding that Sarah and Walky are the real perpetrators. It is a precipitated intervention of the police forces where they are seeing threats on every dark corner, be it dark only because of skin complexion. There is an history of such cases where cops have shot “threatening looking” people, and god knows what does not threaten cops – it isn’t even just in America, we got pretty the same thing every time we got a police-covering government member, and some of your president counselors would have been the right wing of our most far right electoral party, I mean, by US standards, we live in a liberal socialist country.
The point of “Blaine and Ross staying out of prison” isn’t the investigation, but that Blaine at least is likely to not want to leave witnesses alive, since if he does he’ll likely spend the rest of his life in jail. (I don’t think Ross is thinking in those terms and Blaine is likely to lump him in the category of “witness”.)
Yes, there’s a risk the cops might shoot the threatening looking tied up kids, but the risk that the kidnappers do so is still much higher here.
To Sarah’s knowledge?
Excuse me, but any kidnapper with a vigilante costume is exposed to be met with incredulity concerning its seriousness.
…have you read any police-related news recently
This literally is not unrealistic in America. Police have killed black people for very petty and small reasons.
The policy on kidnappings in America is also to have a no-concession approach which has in the past led to raids where hostages have died because they went in guns blazing. Spain has a high success rate with negotiations, America has like, you’re almost guaranteed either a rescuer or a hostage will die in the process.
Sarah’s sentiment is p accurate in my experience.
Ok bye, you won’t be missed!
The cops are not involved because this has literally been half an hour at most.
And yes, a lawyer not trusting the cops is ON BRAND. Lawyers are supposed to know how the legal system *really* works.
Bloomington’s not a small college town, it’s 80K people.
Just imagine thinking that studying to be a lawyer would make you MORE inclined to trust the police
The audacity of the caucasity
Good to know this is a plot hole. I thought cops were not involved because of the well-known usual incompetence of the authorities, as in real life. But of course it can’t be that, because this is a work of fiction.
This is by far one of the least unrealistic elements in this comic.
Seems like the Evils have win. And Sarah has a point, unfortunately.
I like how this is both a much more straightforward note on Walky and a character trait being established at the time time.
Sarah’s expressions in panel five and panel six are boffo, and can cover her about 80% of the time.
Damn Sarah…
Geez, even the president is getting involved now? Hope they find those corpse parts before it’s too late.
Remember kids, if you see your doppleganger? Do Not high five them
I’d fault Walky for forgetting he’s black, but then again, I sometimes forget he is too.
Also, I’m really waiting for Toedad to shocked Pikachu this when he realizes that his plan is so easily foiled and has almost no chance of working in the first place without him getting immediately arrested again.
Maybe they could call the cops on just Toedad (since he’s in the police record, while Blaine could lie like a snake and play himself off as the victim somehow). Even if he got out of jail legitimately through bail, the fact that he’s committed another crime this soon should raise some police alarms.
Although, I understand working with the police is risky in its own right. I don’t think it’s likely they’ll be shot (while still a possibility), but it is likely they’ll be scrutinized just for being kids. “Oh, well we need to know whether or not they’re lying. They’re college kids after all, this could be a prank to get attention. Let’s ask them humiliating and unnecessary questions for a few hours before we go after this man.” :/
Ha. Nice cop-out.
Cuz the cops are out of the story. I get it.
author obviously has a plan, but i can’t shake the apprehension that the shark is being jumped
Nice to see an AC/DC reference, wasn’t expecting that.
Oh Shit, Sarah, you nailed it. Argh this racist world sucks.