Not quite. She doesn’t trust that helping will have positive consequences, at least for her, due to the former roommate situation. But she still knows herself well enough to know that if a situation arises, she will want to help, because as surly as she is, she is a fundamentally good person. So she seeks to avoid situations where the need is going to present itself.
Absolutely. This looks like a job for NAÏVE GIRL!!!
And Becky is going to be super happy that one of her friends high-handedly left her exposed to danger of death and torture to save her from a bit of stress.
She’s said the former a few times before (the first time – which was also her first cuss at all – when Ross kidnapped Becky), while she has not, to date, dropped a single F-Bomb.
I saw an interesting piece about the swearing in Deadwood — I think it was an interview with one of the writers. (Sorry that I don’t remember it well enough to link.)
Apparently all the swearing in Deadwood ought realistically to have been blasphemy, not scatology. The writers felt that they had to change it to modern-style “fuck” and “shit” as a translation convention, because if they wrote it realistically it came across as quaint, not foul-mouthed.
There could be a phonetic scale as well; words with harsher syllables like a ‘-ck’ or ‘-it’ sound feel more impactful, whereas damn, while possibly stronger because of its religious connotations, doesn’t ‘feel’ as potent.
It’s also why swear substitutes often swap out the ‘harsh’ part of the original word, like ‘fudge’.
I kinda want the church to be able to post the first bail only to be totally tapped out and unable to pay for the second bail for when he’s busted for breaking out of jail and stalking multiple college students
Well, they had to borrow money from the Korean mob to make bail the first time, and I think that there is a strong chance that Ross is going to forfeit his bail, which means that they aren’t getting it back. Asher’s gramps is likely to be pretty definite about getting his money back from the actual people who borrowed it, and is not likely to be impressed but the congregation disbanding in bankruptcy.
So there is a fine time for young and old on the horizon.
Depends on whether Gramps decides Blaine is the larger problem. He may decide that getting rid of him is a higher priority than collecting on his unauthorized loans – especially if those are high enough profile to link his organization to some high profile kidnapping/attempted murder.
The church couldn’t make his bail the first time, until Blaine ponied up some filthy mob lucre. So there wouldn’t seem to be any chance they could possibly come up with even more.
Hopefully Blaine ends up in jail as well this time, so Joyce’s former church won’t have anyone to pay the bail for them to get Ross out again. Of course, that’s assuming Ross is in jail again, which we don’t know for sure because Willis hasn’t revealed what happened to them yet.
The problem, frankly, is that Joyce is far too naive to understand the consequences of following through on her intentions. If the world worked the way she believed it worked, then her plan would be perfect.
Joyce is right in saying she shouldn’t have to ever deal with Ross again, but “I’m protecting her by keeping her out of the loop” is stepping on Becky’s agency pretty hard. It’s probably a tactic she’d be familiar with, since adults don’t always tell kids everything in the circles she grew up in (remember she was surprised her parents don’t always agree), but good intentions don’t make it less terrible.
The appropriateness of her intent aside, Joyce went way past her limits in swearing as she did. Trite words for most, but for her a savage expression of her anger about the injustice about to befall her friend. I hope I am that kind of friend to others.
Friggin goddamn indeed. How is Joyce’s swears level doing? She’ll casually and accidentally say “shit” but not “fuck”? I also didn’t start cussin til college but I just jumped into the deep end and became foulmouthed on the first day.
A restraining order would solve virtually everything. If Beck’s sticks around with Robin for the rest of the day given Toedad’s intelligence he would be back in jail by nightfall.
Last time he showed up with a shotgun. The only thing stopping him from kicking the door in and shooting them was Blaine’s attempts to use him for his own purposes, Robin’s presence wouldn’t mean shit.
A shotgun and a rifle are both guns, but a shotgun isn’t rifled and a rifle doesn’t fire shot. If you don’t know or care what kind, there’s no need to specify a particular kind. If you mean “gun”, you can always write “gun”.
A limousine and an SUV are basically the same thing, right? It’s an easy mistake to make if you don’t know much about cars.
Your example is silly. Anybody who’s seen a limo knows they’re nine kilometers long, whereas an SUV is essentially a minivan with extra steps.
And if a rifle doesn’t fire shot, then how do the bullets come out? You can’t shoot something without a shot, that’s just like eating a cake and expecting it to still be there after you’ve eaten it.
“Shot”, in this instance, refers to the ammunition used. Specifically, shotguns are loaded with shells filled with, essentially, BBs that have a wider, but shorter, area of effect than bullets.
But it’s absolutely critical to correct anyone making that mistake. As we all know from countless internet discussions, the single most important thing about any gun crime is getting the details of the weapon right.
They’re a lot alike to a non-expert when seen in a few panels of a webcomic.
From the point of view of the story, there was no difference in the role the gun played. It could have been either. There were some subtler reasons for the gun he chose in particular, but those wouldn’t be noticed on a casual reading. (“Varmint” rifle)
I wouldn’t be surprised if a restraining order to stay away from Becky and the campus is part of his bail. It would be another piece of concrete evidence against him if he’s caught violating the order. That’s a pretty big “if”.
It’s not to persuade TD, it’s to fast track security and law enforcement responses.
Whoever: “I don’t like that Toe Dad, he’s bad news!”
Campus Security/Town Police: “Eh we hear that a lot but parents are generally allowed on campus. We’re not going to do anything.”
Whoever: “I don’t like that Toe Dad, and he has a restraining order on him signed by a judge in relation to that red haired young woman there.”
Campus Security/Town Police: “Sir you’re coming with us RIGHT NOW.”
In other words, if someone other than Mike had seen him last night and known about a restraining order they could have just called the cops and had him arrested rather.
Mike being Mike, he likely would have tried whatever shenanigans he was trying to pull anyway.
I figured Joyce would give in sooner, but yeah, I get she wants to protect Becky, and Becky’s been put through so much shit by Ross already, but I think that beyond needing to know, I also feel like she will take this better than Joyce will, anyhow.
Joyce, your plan sucks. Becky deserves to know to keep herself safe. You are just treating her like a glorified waifu… I am having Re: Zero flashbacks.
People have to know about the global warming. People have to know about how to prevent accidents. People have to know how to cook rice properly. Willful ignorance is the poison of humanity.
You are doing the same sin as your parents and all adults that have betrayed you. You try to hide your loved ones, but your love is constraining them like a snake, and they will try to escape from you because you are just too much.
There are such provisions, though they vary from state to state. Often they’re just kind of faked by setting bail higher than they expect the defendant to be able to pay. Which is apparently what happened here – Ross was unable to cover bail, even with the support of his sympathetic church group.
Being able to predict that a mob figure would get involved because of his own personal vendetta against a friend of the kidnap victim is beyond what the legal system can do.
Setting bail rather high in cases where it is imperative for the survival of other people to keep someone in jail is not a very useful measure. Right people can make bail anyway and others might find some well-moneyed group to get them out. Just denying bail because it’s highly likely the will try again once they are out would be much clearer and fairer.
I agree it’s a horrible system, but the judges are working within it.
Likely to judge was actually basing it on what Ross should have been able to pay. Would have been higher if he’d had more money. Blaine wasn’t predictable.
I think that if there had been a student murdered on campus at least some of the characters would have heard by now. And if Becky’s father had been arrested the police would have told her. Though of course she might be dealing with this off-screen. (And how do you suppose Joyce would react to Becky not telling her at once?)
Whereas if Mike had kidnapped the bad dads and if he were holding them in the bottom of a dry well in a disused house (and making them put lotion on each other’s skin) no-one might have heard anything.
Honestly I don’t know what the best case scenario for Mike is or if it even counts as murder since Mike tackled Blaine and Ross was just kinda there, but I’d assume a student being injured near campus would be some kind of news to someone. The real question is how he goes from falling off a second dtory to kidnapping the two guys who assaulted him? Regardless the point is Ross already broke his bail so this sit uation shojld resolve itself if our legal system can be relied on.
I don’t think it matters how Mike died in the fight (if he did) Blaine and Ross attacked him with malice aforethought, and if he died as a result that’s at least second degree murder. And since Blaine and Ross were engaged in a felony together and with common purpose Ross’ neck is also on the block for manslaughter at least — if Mike is dead, that is.
Is Mike dead, though? Some pretty improbable things happen in this comic, such as Amazi-Girl falling upwards.
In theory – though I doubt Mike is actually dead.
Ross has certainly done enough at this point to violate any bail terms, but it’s a question of what if anything the police know about it.
The advantage of a restraining order is that if any of our cast spot him in the area, they can call the cops on at once without worrying about catching him in the act of any other crime. Of course if the cops know about last night’s fight and already suspect him for it, then that’s already true, but we don’t know if that’s the case.
The best case scenario for Mike is that he landed on his head, bounced, and walked away, had a good nights sleep in the dorm dreaming of the damage he did to Blain’s car’s roof and was attending classes by the time Walky got back.
Yeah, Sarah might well do better to get her baseball bat than a restraining order. They don’t even know where to serve the restraining order.
And as you note, restraining orders are of little use against people who believe that they face the infinite rewards and punishments of the omnipotent and omniscient creator of the Universe.
Restraining orders often don’t stop people directly. They let the cops arrest them if they’re violated. In this case, since Blaine has no legitimate reason to be on or around campus, he could easily be barred from the entire area and thus busted if anyone spots him there.
As for serving the order, not being reachable by the authorities is itself generally a violation of bail terms, I think.
Sarah is of course operating under the assumption that he’s not actually out yet. If that were the case, they would obviously be able to serve him.
I do kinda wonder how the church would spin the whole Ross getting out on bail only to almost immediately get involved in another crime thing? Was trying an unrelated IU student part of god’s plan too?
You see, Ross didn’t actually attack Mike. He just happened to be in the area while Mike was suffering the regrettable but natural consequences of his unnatural lifestyle choices. He (Ross, that is) is a good and godly man who just wants to kidnap, imprison, and torture bring up right his daughter, and who is being persecuted by the [ ungodly authorities | liberal conspiracy | deep state ] (strike out any that do not apply).
Carol’s church, from everything that we have seen of it, clearly does not give one shit about anything beyond their religion. They know full well what they are doing, but do not give one singular shit.
Becky definitely deserves to know, especially since Ross might still be out of jail, though we can’t be sure on that since Willis hasn’t revealed what happened to him and Blaine and Mike yet.
Earlier today, my wife pointed out that in ST:TNG the only time characters are shown eating a meal is when there’s about to be an alert that drags them away from their meals.
…it’s honestly a bit disquieting that neither the College-Aged-Elizabeth-Warren or the African-American-Woman-Studying-Law seem to be okay with Ross being held in jail because he’s unable to afford bail.
Hold him in jail because he’s a danger to others and unwilling to respect bail of any amount, absolutely. And if the law requires some sort of bail be given, make it an outlandish amount to make it a defacto Denied Bail. But keeping people in jail for no other reason than that they don’t have enough money is wrong, full stop.
I think you are confusing the issue. Toedad is a danger to Becky (also Joyce and anyone who gets in his way) and should be denied bail because of that.
If the law is stupid enough to not allow for denying bail to people who are highly likely to be a danger to others if they get bail, you use whatever handle you have.
So there are two problems. First: the law should deny bail if letting the accused out has a high probability the accused will commit violent crimes again as soon as they are out. This is obviously missing in your law.
Second: the intention of the bail law in regard to fairness to people with different social status and richness is ignored in actual practice. This needs to be fixed.
Ok, three: you also probably need more judges to shorted the time between deed and judgement.
I guess I just expect one of them going something like “well, on principle, it shouldn’t be a question on if he can afford bail, only if he could be trusted with respecting the bail holy crap Joyce please stop with the evil eye there’s deep societal issues sorry sorry SORRY!”
…I mean, if only because it’d be kinda funny.
But yeah, this is definitely a more complicated situation that I initially presented. It’s just… this is this big social evil that’s been allowed to fester for decades so companies can gleefully profit off of it (both for “Bail Bonds” and “Private Prisons”), it feels awkward that it’s not acknowledged at all.
It is particularly galling that other countries have alternatives to bail, or systems of bail that don’t rely on bonds, that actually work better than bail bonds, and that have basically no chance of being adopted in America, because systems that would work better if they were introduced can’t hire lobbyists or make campaign contributions.
There’s been some progress and definitely more awareness and activism around this. I think we’ll see some movement in the next few years – assuming we don’t completely sink into fascism.
I think that would be kinda out of place for Dorothy just hearing a guy who kidnapped Becky at gun point might be out on bail soon and it doesn’t sound like Sarah would say.
Well for them, the cost hasn’t come up at all. Just the basic concept of “he might get out”. We know the backstory of him being held because he can’t afford bail until the mob stooge pays it, but all Joyce has is “church wants to get him out on bail” – whether they’re paying it or just helping him fund a lawyer to argue that it shouldn’t be denied or something entirely different.
And Sarah’s “and this is Indiana” might have led to “if he was black he wouldn’t have got it”.
And this is how the larger issue gets drowned in the lesser:
Finding out if he is already out should be the first thing on their agenda.
When to tell someone bothersome news or if you should ignore friends who ask you to not tell someone bothersome news should take a backseat to finding out how things actually stand.
Sarah’s a good person in a curmudgeonly shell. Joyce is her baby sister. You bet that she’s going to get involved, while also grumbling about “having” to get involved!
It’s acceptable story-wise because Joyce is a panicking teenager really not equipped for any sort of crisis management. (For her a “crisis” is mixed food items on her plate.) But I wanted to put in words the core of why it just feels so exceptionally bad:
1- “Let’s not tell Becky anything!” Is super bad. Keeping secrets related to crises is just the dead opposite. “Oh there’s a trash fire. I’ll just not tell anyone, I don’t want to worry them. Oh dear it’s grown far out of my control.”
2- “We’ll just fix this situation”. NO, you WON’T. Joyce has no sense of the scope of what is and isn’t reasonable for basically helpless (sorry Joyce) teenagers to take on and solve. You’re not the Scooby Doo gang. Not that the Gang omnisciently knows all the details, but Campus Security, the Deans, and Town Police would all have an interest in knowing that there is a suspect out on bail and an unconvicted mafia enforcer who both have various criminal harm in mind for students/town residents. If Becky has some sort of Student Applicant status already then maybe even Campus Security cares about here.
Joyce, your job as a STUDENT is to pass your midterms. Not take on giant law enforcement and security efforts you’re totally unequipped mentally and training-wise to handle. And pass information to the organizations that ARE equipped to at least try and do something about this.
Well, you kind of assume the police already know he’s getting (or actually already is) out on bail. They’re kind of part of the process. Joyce doesn’t actually know anything else to tell them.
As for 1) Becky certainly needs to know. Even as a legal matter, she’d need to be involved in any attempt to get a restraining order or the like. Maybe even to find out if/when he’s getting out – at the least it would likely make it easier.
I do hope this is only a character bit for Joyce and she’ll be brought around relatively quickly, not an excuse to keep everyone in the dark until the next bit of drama hits.
I can appreciate Joyce initially reacting like this – she wants to protect her best friend, who has already been through way too much and faced too much uncertainty and fear in her life. It’s coming from a good place.
However – Becky needs to know. You can’t keep somebody safe while not letting them know that they’re potentially in danger, especially when we are talking about an intelligent, active adult with a life and responsibilities of her own. It sucks. It’s not fair. But that’s life sometimes. And Becky is at least outwardly so resilient…
This being a clear parallel to Dorothy’s hesitation to tell Joyce about AG getting a picture/name for Druggie McStabbo makes me suspect Joyce will be talked around fairly soon.
I like assertive Joyce. Nanny Joyce, the one who wants to keep Toedad’s potential freedom secret from THE ONE PERSON WHO MOST NEEDS TO KNOW? Not so much.
I really hate to point this out, but… Joyce, with that mentality you are falling into the exact same trap as Carol and Ross. You become so obsessed with trying to protect someone you love that you wind up trying to take control of their autonomy to decide for themselves how THEY want to live their life. Keeping Becky in the dark, especially about something as important as this, is a bad, BAD idea. Be very careful, lest you wind up becoming the thing you hate.
Or the same horrible abusive mentality as when Dorothy didn’t want to tell Joyce about AG getting a picture of scarface.
This is a very natural tendency. It’s wrong in this case and it can be taken far enough to be a serious problem, but it’s not a sign of any real deep problem for Joyce.
Joyce has shown homicidal tendencies. She told Amber that Gash face should have been killed, horrifying Amber. She wants to bribe a warden to shiv Ross, making Sarah worried.
Joyce may no longer be religiouss fanatic, but she is still a fanatic that wants blood in her hands for sosmething she believes is right.
Are we reading the same comic? Because Amber wasn’t horrified from that, she was horrified that she tried to kill him, basically making her the monster her father wants her to be. Sarah doesn’t seem worried, she seems to be trying to lighten the mood, yesterday was not a look of concern.
Even to the extent she really wanted them dead, not some kind of fanaticiusm for something she believes is right, but a personal reaction to her own trauma, linked with Becky’s in Ross’s case.
Kind of my point. She’s doing the same thing Dorothy was doing earlier, just more dramatically. If that wasn’t a sign of Dorothy becoming like Carol and Ross, this probably isn’t either.
My memory’s a bit fuzzy, but in that particular case, didn’t Joyce herself say that she wants to forget the whole incident ever occurred and basically have nothing more to do with Scarface, not even to press charges? If so, then basically Joyce made her position clear and Dorothy was just adhering to her wishes.
In the current situation, we also know Becky’s wishes, and that’s that she would want to be told about her dad getting bailed. The two situations are not alike with regards to Dorothy’s actions (or what Dorothy will do now regarding sharing this news with Becky.)
That was a long time back by then and Joyce obviously hadn’t been able to forget the whole incident. Nor was Dorothy using that as a justification – just a “don’t want to hurt her by bringing it up”. When she did Joyce thanked her and the others.
Wow, Joyce. Listen to yourself. “It’s not fair” is a phrase for when you don’t want to do your homework, not for when your dad kidnaps you at gunpoint.
Okay, Joyce, I get it. You wanna protect Becky from the mass amount of bullshit that is her life. But could you be arsed to remember the advise of your sister? Don’t fly off the handle on every little thing, and remember to talk to Becky about these things, does she want you to fight her battles? Most of the time, no, not really. Becky is a strong independent woman who don’t need no lifelong crush being her white knight.
Restraining orders aren’t so much about keeping people physically away, as they are establishing a precedence of behavior, desire to be left alone and providing an additional thing to slap people with when they are ignored.
And in some cases, including this one, they would allow police to intervene before an actual crime was committed. Had there been a restraining order in place already (and had Mike known about it) he could simply have called the police and had Ross arrested rather than whatever it was he was trying to do.
Of course, being Mike, he likely would have tried his own scheme anyway, but maybe if someone else had run into Ross and Blaine…
So in the middle of all this, I realize that we have no idea whether Toedad knows where Becky is. I don’t know whether Blaine knew she had moved into Robin’s swank abode, and Blaine is likely out of the picture anyway. So Toedad may well try to track his daughter to the last place he knew she was staying—I.e. Joyce’s room. Which links to Amber’s room, right?
This could get so bad, you’ve guys…
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you don’t HAVE to help, Sarah
…you totes WILL, but you don’t HAVE to
Sarah is a Knight in Sour Armor, and it’s wonderful.
“I will not click that link. I will not click that link. I will… not… click… that… ” *click*
[2 hours later]
“Noooooooooooooooooo!”
If you only lost two hours to that website, your are one of the fortunate and/or self-disciplined ones
Ah, but was that “Nooooo!” an exit from the TimeSink of TV Tropes, or merely the sudden realization I was trapped inside it?
First time in only cost me four hours of payback overtime. :—)
And I learned a valuable lesson about company resources.
No good deed goes unpunned.
One gets the impression Sarah doesn’t actually hate helping, she just pretends to.
Not quite. She doesn’t trust that helping will have positive consequences, at least for her, due to the former roommate situation. But she still knows herself well enough to know that if a situation arises, she will want to help, because as surly as she is, she is a fundamentally good person. So she seeks to avoid situations where the need is going to present itself.
A triangle frown, surely.
I can only imagine that Joyce doing so would make her look like Death’s Head.
Well this will go over smoothly.
Absolutely. This looks like a job for NAÏVE GIRL!!!
And Becky is going to be super happy that one of her friends high-handedly left her exposed to danger of death and torture to save her from a bit of stress.
I’m surprised that Joyce said goddamn more easily than fuck. My parents are christian and they consider goddamn to be the worst.
Also, I’m with Sarah on this one, does she have to get involved? She was just trying to eat lunch.
She’s said the former a few times before (the first time – which was also her first cuss at all – when Ross kidnapped Becky), while she has not, to date, dropped a single F-Bomb.
Perhaps she considers the situation so intolerable that it truly has been condemned by a deity?
Fun fact — in the middle ages and early modern period, saying goddamn was _way_ more of a big deal than the seven words you can’t say on television.
I saw an interesting piece about the swearing in Deadwood — I think it was an interview with one of the writers. (Sorry that I don’t remember it well enough to link.)
Apparently all the swearing in Deadwood ought realistically to have been blasphemy, not scatology. The writers felt that they had to change it to modern-style “fuck” and “shit” as a translation convention, because if they wrote it realistically it came across as quaint, not foul-mouthed.
“God is dead.”
*collective gasp*
According to Stanislaw Lem, he decided to just watch without acting to keep his status as god.
There could be a phonetic scale as well; words with harsher syllables like a ‘-ck’ or ‘-it’ sound feel more impactful, whereas damn, while possibly stronger because of its religious connotations, doesn’t ‘feel’ as potent.
It’s also why swear substitutes often swap out the ‘harsh’ part of the original word, like ‘fudge’.
FudgeDamn!
Kacktit!
Uncanny Valli.
Joyce, this is why you know nothing about Jordan. Or why you thought your family had no problems with Halloween.
Don’t be a Carol.
She who fights monsters. Just look at Walkyverse Sal emulating her mom.
…Is this still the day after the party?
Yes.
Well, it probably wasn’t a day after the fair.
(but yes, this is still the morning after the party.)
I kinda want the church to be able to post the first bail only to be totally tapped out and unable to pay for the second bail for when he’s busted for breaking out of jail and stalking multiple college students
He didn’t break out of jail. Blaine paid his bail.
Then I hope the bail for a second infraction so close to the first is signficantly more than the church can gather
I’m pretty sure that when you commit the same crime on bail, your bail is revoked.
If indeed they have to offer it, I hope the entire church goes bankrupt trying to pay for it.
Well, they had to borrow money from the Korean mob to make bail the first time, and I think that there is a strong chance that Ross is going to forfeit his bail, which means that they aren’t getting it back. Asher’s gramps is likely to be pretty definite about getting his money back from the actual people who borrowed it, and is not likely to be impressed but the congregation disbanding in bankruptcy.
So there is a fine time for young and old on the horizon.
We don’t know if Gramps even knows about any of this. Blaine could have paid with money he’s been skimming with his phony carpentry business.
Of course if that’s the case, once Gramps does find out…
Depends on whether Gramps decides Blaine is the larger problem. He may decide that getting rid of him is a higher priority than collecting on his unauthorized loans – especially if those are high enough profile to link his organization to some high profile kidnapping/attempted murder.
The church couldn’t make his bail the first time, until Blaine ponied up some filthy mob lucre. So there wouldn’t seem to be any chance they could possibly come up with even more.
Hopefully Blaine ends up in jail as well this time, so Joyce’s former church won’t have anyone to pay the bail for them to get Ross out again. Of course, that’s assuming Ross is in jail again, which we don’t know for sure because Willis hasn’t revealed what happened to them yet.
They’ll have to raise even more money, to bail both of them out.
Thankfully, Carol can’t re-mortgage or sell the house on her own as long as Hank’s still on the deed…
And made their church too broke for anybody to post their own bails when they are arrested in connection with this all?
You’re right, it’s not fair, but she needs to know so she can decide what plan works best for her. And also because restraining orders.
Now please please PLEASE someone look into recent bail releases. Those are public information, right?
I really like Joyce’s intentions but I’m pretty sure we’re having laying cement down for the road to hell…
The problem, frankly, is that Joyce is far too naive to understand the consequences of following through on her intentions. If the world worked the way she believed it worked, then her plan would be perfect.
I mean. I guess that’s true of all plans.
Joyce is right in saying she shouldn’t have to ever deal with Ross again, but “I’m protecting her by keeping her out of the loop” is stepping on Becky’s agency pretty hard. It’s probably a tactic she’d be familiar with, since adults don’t always tell kids everything in the circles she grew up in (remember she was surprised her parents don’t always agree), but good intentions don’t make it less terrible.
The appropriateness of her intent aside, Joyce went way past her limits in swearing as she did. Trite words for most, but for her a savage expression of her anger about the injustice about to befall her friend. I hope I am that kind of friend to others.
Friggin goddamn indeed. How is Joyce’s swears level doing? She’ll casually and accidentally say “shit” but not “fuck”? I also didn’t start cussin til college but I just jumped into the deep end and became foulmouthed on the first day.
A restraining order would solve virtually everything. If Beck’s sticks around with Robin for the rest of the day given Toedad’s intelligence he would be back in jail by nightfall.
Last time he showed up with a shotgun. The only thing stopping him from kicking the door in and shooting them was Blaine’s attempts to use him for his own purposes, Robin’s presence wouldn’t mean shit.
It was a rifle, not a shotgun.
They’re basically the same thing, right? It’s an easy mistake to make if you don’t know much about guns.
A shotgun and a rifle are both guns, but a shotgun isn’t rifled and a rifle doesn’t fire shot. If you don’t know or care what kind, there’s no need to specify a particular kind. If you mean “gun”, you can always write “gun”.
A limousine and an SUV are basically the same thing, right? It’s an easy mistake to make if you don’t know much about cars.
Your example is silly. Anybody who’s seen a limo knows they’re nine kilometers long, whereas an SUV is essentially a minivan with extra steps.
And if a rifle doesn’t fire shot, then how do the bullets come out? You can’t shoot something without a shot, that’s just like eating a cake and expecting it to still be there after you’ve eaten it.
“Shot”, in this instance, refers to the ammunition used. Specifically, shotguns are loaded with shells filled with, essentially, BBs that have a wider, but shorter, area of effect than bullets.
And rifles can fire shot shells anyway, I have seen shot shells for .22 rifles.
But it’s absolutely critical to correct anyone making that mistake. As we all know from countless internet discussions, the single most important thing about any gun crime is getting the details of the weapon right.
No, but a rifle and a shotgun are nothing alike.
Also, we can’t have someone being wrong on the Internet.
They’re a lot alike to a non-expert when seen in a few panels of a webcomic.
From the point of view of the story, there was no difference in the role the gun played. It could have been either. There were some subtler reasons for the gun he chose in particular, but those wouldn’t be noticed on a casual reading. (“Varmint” rifle)
You are ignoring a key piece of Willis’ artistry. And showing you didn’t read the comments that day.
With how many more people injured along the way?
I wouldn’t be surprised if a restraining order to stay away from Becky and the campus is part of his bail. It would be another piece of concrete evidence against him if he’s caught violating the order. That’s a pretty big “if”.
You’d think Sarah would KNOW better, by now!
“Maybe it’s a social interaction she can rely on while still pretending to hate?” – Billie, during the birthday chapter.
You would think that Sarah would know there are a lot of dead people who had restraining orders.
Toe Dad: I took a gun onto campus because I would die for my daughter.
Toe Dad: Now I am out on bail and will go reclaim my daughter.
Mike: But there is a restraining order.
Toe Dad: Oh dear! I shall have to give up my plan. Thank you, young man.
…
A conversation which happened in no universe ever.
I mean, Sarah probably does, but she is trying to help, if not for Becky then to get Joyce to calm down and breathe.
It’s not to persuade TD, it’s to fast track security and law enforcement responses.
Whoever: “I don’t like that Toe Dad, he’s bad news!”
Campus Security/Town Police: “Eh we hear that a lot but parents are generally allowed on campus. We’re not going to do anything.”
Whoever: “I don’t like that Toe Dad, and he has a restraining order on him signed by a judge in relation to that red haired young woman there.”
Campus Security/Town Police: “Sir you’re coming with us RIGHT NOW.”
In other words, if someone other than Mike had seen him last night and known about a restraining order they could have just called the cops and had him arrested rather.
Mike being Mike, he likely would have tried whatever shenanigans he was trying to pull anyway.
I figured Joyce would give in sooner, but yeah, I get she wants to protect Becky, and Becky’s been put through so much shit by Ross already, but I think that beyond needing to know, I also feel like she will take this better than Joyce will, anyhow.
I think she’s not protecting Becky here. Her language suggests that she’s talking about herself.
How so?
Oh snap. Nailed it. I didn’t see it but now I do.
Poor Sarah: Does not like Dumb Teenage Drama
Also, Sarah: Roommates with the MAIN Character of Dumb Teenage Drama
Dumb teenage Drama: 1 Day lasts a months or so
=
Sarah, main character from Walkyverse
struck in a coma, purgatory or BOTH
Joyce, your plan sucks. Becky deserves to know to keep herself safe. You are just treating her like a glorified waifu… I am having Re: Zero flashbacks.
People have to know about the global warming. People have to know about how to prevent accidents. People have to know how to cook rice properly. Willful ignorance is the poison of humanity.
You are doing the same sin as your parents and all adults that have betrayed you. You try to hide your loved ones, but your love is constraining them like a snake, and they will try to escape from you because you are just too much.
Becky is nothing like Emelia. Becky has a personality, for starters. Although I could see a vague Rem comparison.
Touche.
Here’s an idea, how about check to see if they haven’t bailed him out already. Geez it’s almost alarming how much they don’t know what’s coming.
Well, it’s certainly a good thing that God died and left Joyce in charge, amirite?
If Joyce was writing Dumbing of Age, I’m pretty sure Ross would have “spontaneously” combusted by now.
Getting an Elaine Belloc flashback now.
I feel like if someone tries to kidnap or murder you, there should be an expedited form for a restraining order if the victim wants one.
I feel like there ought to be a routine provision in bail conditions about approaching complainants or witnesses.
There should be a routine provision in bail law to keep accused in who in high probability will try to finish the violent crime they got caught for.
There are such provisions, though they vary from state to state. Often they’re just kind of faked by setting bail higher than they expect the defendant to be able to pay. Which is apparently what happened here – Ross was unable to cover bail, even with the support of his sympathetic church group.
Being able to predict that a mob figure would get involved because of his own personal vendetta against a friend of the kidnap victim is beyond what the legal system can do.
Setting bail rather high in cases where it is imperative for the survival of other people to keep someone in jail is not a very useful measure. Right people can make bail anyway and others might find some well-moneyed group to get them out. Just denying bail because it’s highly likely the will try again once they are out would be much clearer and fairer.
I hate autocorrect. the second sentence was supposed to start with „Rich people“.
I agree it’s a horrible system, but the judges are working within it.
Likely to judge was actually basing it on what Ross should have been able to pay. Would have been higher if he’d had more money. Blaine wasn’t predictable.
I mean Ross is probably already back in jail for being an accomplice to Mike’s murder right? So Joyce is actually worrying for nothing.
I think that if there had been a student murdered on campus at least some of the characters would have heard by now. And if Becky’s father had been arrested the police would have told her. Though of course she might be dealing with this off-screen. (And how do you suppose Joyce would react to Becky not telling her at once?)
Whereas if Mike had kidnapped the bad dads and if he were holding them in the bottom of a dry well in a disused house (and making them put lotion on each other’s skin) no-one might have heard anything.
Honestly I don’t know what the best case scenario for Mike is or if it even counts as murder since Mike tackled Blaine and Ross was just kinda there, but I’d assume a student being injured near campus would be some kind of news to someone. The real question is how he goes from falling off a second dtory to kidnapping the two guys who assaulted him? Regardless the point is Ross already broke his bail so this sit uation shojld resolve itself if our legal system can be relied on.
Does the felony-murder rule apply in Indiana?
I don’t think it matters how Mike died in the fight (if he did) Blaine and Ross attacked him with malice aforethought, and if he died as a result that’s at least second degree murder. And since Blaine and Ross were engaged in a felony together and with common purpose Ross’ neck is also on the block for manslaughter at least — if Mike is dead, that is.
Is Mike dead, though? Some pretty improbable things happen in this comic, such as Amazi-Girl falling upwards.
In theory – though I doubt Mike is actually dead.
Ross has certainly done enough at this point to violate any bail terms, but it’s a question of what if anything the police know about it.
The advantage of a restraining order is that if any of our cast spot him in the area, they can call the cops on at once without worrying about catching him in the act of any other crime. Of course if the cops know about last night’s fight and already suspect him for it, then that’s already true, but we don’t know if that’s the case.
The best case scenario for Mike is that he landed on his head, bounced, and walked away, had a good nights sleep in the dorm dreaming of the damage he did to Blain’s car’s roof and was attending classes by the time Walky got back.
I’m super up for Mike as evil Mastermind with even more evil characters in his torture Chambers.
Where is Joyce even going?
To change into her superhero suit, I suppose.
“I can look into getting a restraining order” because that’s gonna stop Ross.
The school’s a gun-free zone too, I bet, but look what good that did.
Yeah, Sarah might well do better to get her baseball bat than a restraining order. They don’t even know where to serve the restraining order.
And as you note, restraining orders are of little use against people who believe that they face the infinite rewards and punishments of the omnipotent and omniscient creator of the Universe.
Restraining orders often don’t stop people directly. They let the cops arrest them if they’re violated. In this case, since Blaine has no legitimate reason to be on or around campus, he could easily be barred from the entire area and thus busted if anyone spots him there.
As for serving the order, not being reachable by the authorities is itself generally a violation of bail terms, I think.
Sarah is of course operating under the assumption that he’s not actually out yet. If that were the case, they would obviously be able to serve him.
I do kinda wonder how the church would spin the whole Ross getting out on bail only to almost immediately get involved in another crime thing? Was trying an unrelated IU student part of god’s plan too?
Denial. It’ not just a river in Africa!
You see, Ross didn’t actually attack Mike. He just happened to be in the area while Mike was suffering the regrettable but natural consequences of his unnatural lifestyle choices. He (Ross, that is) is a good and godly man who just wants to
kidnap, imprison, and torturebring up right his daughter, and who is being persecuted by the [ ungodly authorities | liberal conspiracy | deep state ] (strike out any that do not apply).Carol’s church, from everything that we have seen of it, clearly does not give one shit about anything beyond their religion. They know full well what they are doing, but do not give one singular shit.
Mike has unnatural lifestyle choices? Oh, right. He’s a college student.
Becky definitely deserves to know, especially since Ross might still be out of jail, though we can’t be sure on that since Willis hasn’t revealed what happened to him and Blaine and Mike yet.
The real tragedy is that they didn’t even eat their lunches!
Fictional characters would be a lot less high-strung if they’d just get some fucking nutrition and stop storming away from meals.
Earlier today, my wife pointed out that in ST:TNG the only time characters are shown eating a meal is when there’s about to be an alert that drags them away from their meals.
…it’s honestly a bit disquieting that neither the College-Aged-Elizabeth-Warren or the African-American-Woman-Studying-Law seem to be okay with Ross being held in jail because he’s unable to afford bail.
Hold him in jail because he’s a danger to others and unwilling to respect bail of any amount, absolutely. And if the law requires some sort of bail be given, make it an outlandish amount to make it a defacto Denied Bail. But keeping people in jail for no other reason than that they don’t have enough money is wrong, full stop.
……that both of them. That both. Gah.
Circumstances alter cases.
I think you are confusing the issue. Toedad is a danger to Becky (also Joyce and anyone who gets in his way) and should be denied bail because of that.
If the law is stupid enough to not allow for denying bail to people who are highly likely to be a danger to others if they get bail, you use whatever handle you have.
So there are two problems. First: the law should deny bail if letting the accused out has a high probability the accused will commit violent crimes again as soon as they are out. This is obviously missing in your law.
Second: the intention of the bail law in regard to fairness to people with different social status and richness is ignored in actual practice. This needs to be fixed.
Ok, three: you also probably need more judges to shorted the time between deed and judgement.
I guess I just expect one of them going something like “well, on principle, it shouldn’t be a question on if he can afford bail, only if he could be trusted with respecting the bail holy crap Joyce please stop with the evil eye there’s deep societal issues sorry sorry SORRY!”
…I mean, if only because it’d be kinda funny.
But yeah, this is definitely a more complicated situation that I initially presented. It’s just… this is this big social evil that’s been allowed to fester for decades so companies can gleefully profit off of it (both for “Bail Bonds” and “Private Prisons”), it feels awkward that it’s not acknowledged at all.
It is particularly galling that other countries have alternatives to bail, or systems of bail that don’t rely on bonds, that actually work better than bail bonds, and that have basically no chance of being adopted in America, because systems that would work better if they were introduced can’t hire lobbyists or make campaign contributions.
There’s been some progress and definitely more awareness and activism around this. I think we’ll see some movement in the next few years – assuming we don’t completely sink into fascism.
Always a popular choice.
I think that would be kinda out of place for Dorothy just hearing a guy who kidnapped Becky at gun point might be out on bail soon and it doesn’t sound like Sarah would say.
So, like, the problem is timing and Sarah being a grump.
College-aged-Elizabeth-Warren? Now that’s really harsh.
…I mean, I like Warren. She’s my first pick for the primary (Sanders is my second, and Bernie Stans can go fuck off please).
Well for them, the cost hasn’t come up at all. Just the basic concept of “he might get out”. We know the backstory of him being held because he can’t afford bail until the mob stooge pays it, but all Joyce has is “church wants to get him out on bail” – whether they’re paying it or just helping him fund a lawyer to argue that it shouldn’t be denied or something entirely different.
And Sarah’s “and this is Indiana” might have led to “if he was black he wouldn’t have got it”.
Joyce is a woman on a mission and heaven help anyone who gets in her way! Meanwhile, Dorothy has to be the sane brain in the room… again.
A mission to find Mike’s corpse.
And this is how the larger issue gets drowned in the lesser:
Finding out if he is already out should be the first thing on their agenda.
When to tell someone bothersome news or if you should ignore friends who ask you to not tell someone bothersome news should take a backseat to finding out how things actually stand.
Pfft, “dragged”. Sarah offered to help without being asked, no dragging involved. Sarah is so much more than she is willing to admit to herself.
Sarah’s a good person in a curmudgeonly shell. Joyce is her baby sister. You bet that she’s going to get involved, while also grumbling about “having” to get involved!
Sarah-“I’m apathetic”
*Joyce exists*
Sarah-“Goddamn it”
Joyce, your advice is bad and you should feel bad.
Zoidberg: “YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD!”
Claw clicking motions and noises!
It’s acceptable story-wise because Joyce is a panicking teenager really not equipped for any sort of crisis management. (For her a “crisis” is mixed food items on her plate.) But I wanted to put in words the core of why it just feels so exceptionally bad:
1- “Let’s not tell Becky anything!” Is super bad. Keeping secrets related to crises is just the dead opposite. “Oh there’s a trash fire. I’ll just not tell anyone, I don’t want to worry them. Oh dear it’s grown far out of my control.”
2- “We’ll just fix this situation”. NO, you WON’T. Joyce has no sense of the scope of what is and isn’t reasonable for basically helpless (sorry Joyce) teenagers to take on and solve. You’re not the Scooby Doo gang. Not that the Gang omnisciently knows all the details, but Campus Security, the Deans, and Town Police would all have an interest in knowing that there is a suspect out on bail and an unconvicted mafia enforcer who both have various criminal harm in mind for students/town residents. If Becky has some sort of Student Applicant status already then maybe even Campus Security cares about here.
Joyce, your job as a STUDENT is to pass your midterms. Not take on giant law enforcement and security efforts you’re totally unequipped mentally and training-wise to handle. And pass information to the organizations that ARE equipped to at least try and do something about this.
Well, you kind of assume the police already know he’s getting (or actually already is) out on bail. They’re kind of part of the process. Joyce doesn’t actually know anything else to tell them.
As for 1) Becky certainly needs to know. Even as a legal matter, she’d need to be involved in any attempt to get a restraining order or the like. Maybe even to find out if/when he’s getting out – at the least it would likely make it easier.
I do hope this is only a character bit for Joyce and she’ll be brought around relatively quickly, not an excuse to keep everyone in the dark until the next bit of drama hits.
I can appreciate Joyce initially reacting like this – she wants to protect her best friend, who has already been through way too much and faced too much uncertainty and fear in her life. It’s coming from a good place.
However – Becky needs to know. You can’t keep somebody safe while not letting them know that they’re potentially in danger, especially when we are talking about an intelligent, active adult with a life and responsibilities of her own. It sucks. It’s not fair. But that’s life sometimes. And Becky is at least outwardly so resilient…
This being a clear parallel to Dorothy’s hesitation to tell Joyce about AG getting a picture/name for Druggie McStabbo makes me suspect Joyce will be talked around fairly soon.
Pretty sure she already has. The above rant is that she knows they’re right and is just pissed Becky has to deal with this.
Perhaps. She hasn’t actually agreed yet though.
Assertive Joyce and assertive Dorothy are my new favorite things.
I like assertive Joyce. Nanny Joyce, the one who wants to keep Toedad’s potential freedom secret from THE ONE PERSON WHO MOST NEEDS TO KNOW? Not so much.
They don’t have to make the RIGHT choices for me to like them 🙂
So, will Sarah get involved to do the right thing again and probably be ostracised for it again?
Narrator: Yes.
Sarah: WHY DO I NEVER LEARN?
The only thing Sarah could do to get ostracised would be to give Becky to her dad, which won’t happen.
She could go over Joyce’s head to tell Becky, which would be the right thing, but upset Joyce, at least in the short run.
It wouldn’t get her ostracised. Joyce is already aware that finding this from Becky is wrong, she’s just very upset about it.
Also Joyce doesn’t have authority over Becky’s life, so you can’t really go over her head.
She won’t get ostracised this time. She has gravitas. And she’s gonna use it.
I really hate to point this out, but… Joyce, with that mentality you are falling into the exact same trap as Carol and Ross. You become so obsessed with trying to protect someone you love that you wind up trying to take control of their autonomy to decide for themselves how THEY want to live their life. Keeping Becky in the dark, especially about something as important as this, is a bad, BAD idea. Be very careful, lest you wind up becoming the thing you hate.
Or the same horrible abusive mentality as when Dorothy didn’t want to tell Joyce about AG getting a picture of scarface.
This is a very natural tendency. It’s wrong in this case and it can be taken far enough to be a serious problem, but it’s not a sign of any real deep problem for Joyce.
Joyce has shown homicidal tendencies. She told Amber that Gash face should have been killed, horrifying Amber. She wants to bribe a warden to shiv Ross, making Sarah worried.
Joyce may no longer be religiouss fanatic, but she is still a fanatic that wants blood in her hands for sosmething she believes is right.
Are we reading the same comic? Because Amber wasn’t horrified from that, she was horrified that she tried to kill him, basically making her the monster her father wants her to be. Sarah doesn’t seem worried, she seems to be trying to lighten the mood, yesterday was not a look of concern.
Apparently we’re not.
Even to the extent she really wanted them dead, not some kind of fanaticiusm for something she believes is right, but a personal reaction to her own trauma, linked with Becky’s in Ross’s case.
You’re gonna have to link “Don’t want to resurface an extremely traumatic event” to a “horrible abusive mentality.”
Kind of my point. She’s doing the same thing Dorothy was doing earlier, just more dramatically. If that wasn’t a sign of Dorothy becoming like Carol and Ross, this probably isn’t either.
Gotcha, sorry.
My memory’s a bit fuzzy, but in that particular case, didn’t Joyce herself say that she wants to forget the whole incident ever occurred and basically have nothing more to do with Scarface, not even to press charges? If so, then basically Joyce made her position clear and Dorothy was just adhering to her wishes.
In the current situation, we also know Becky’s wishes, and that’s that she would want to be told about her dad getting bailed. The two situations are not alike with regards to Dorothy’s actions (or what Dorothy will do now regarding sharing this news with Becky.)
That was a long time back by then and Joyce obviously hadn’t been able to forget the whole incident. Nor was Dorothy using that as a justification – just a “don’t want to hurt her by bringing it up”. When she did Joyce thanked her and the others.
Wow, Joyce. Listen to yourself. “It’s not fair” is a phrase for when you don’t want to do your homework, not for when your dad kidnaps you at gunpoint.
Doesn’t she realize the world isn’t fair and you have to work to make it fair? She just wants blood so badly.
Making the world fair(er) has, in the entirety of history, involved either blood or the threat of it.
Okay, Joyce, I get it. You wanna protect Becky from the mass amount of bullshit that is her life. But could you be arsed to remember the advise of your sister? Don’t fly off the handle on every little thing, and remember to talk to Becky about these things, does she want you to fight her battles? Most of the time, no, not really. Becky is a strong independent woman who don’t need no lifelong crush being her white knight.
Which sister, Sarah or Jocelyn?
Jocelyn.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/resources-2/
Thanks. Hard to remember which sister it is sometimes.
Weird for some reason the Dixie Chick’s “Goodbye Earl” keeps playing in my head. Can’t imagine why.
(She held Wanda’s HAND and they worked out a PLAN and it didn’t take ’em long to decide…)
I hate that song. Like, legitimately wish it had never existed.
Other line relevant to this conversation: “But Earl walked right through that restraining order And put her in intensive care”
The line I liked best out of that song was the one about how “…he was a missing person that no one missed at all.”
Ha! I love that song!
It’s wonderful to have friends like this so your life can’t be boring. Right Sarah?
But she wants a
boringdrama-free life.No. Joyce seriously wait. And listen to your friends advice.
Joyce’s grave is next to Mike.
Who is this Mike you’re speaking of?
Not like a “restraining order” would work well on a nutjob that already tried to kidnap her at gunpoint once.
Restraining orders aren’t so much about keeping people physically away, as they are establishing a precedence of behavior, desire to be left alone and providing an additional thing to slap people with when they are ignored.
And in some cases, including this one, they would allow police to intervene before an actual crime was committed. Had there been a restraining order in place already (and had Mike known about it) he could simply have called the police and had Ross arrested rather than whatever it was he was trying to do.
Of course, being Mike, he likely would have tried his own scheme anyway, but maybe if someone else had run into Ross and Blaine…
In the case of Ross, a restraining order would be to get cops on his ass ASAP if Becky ever saw him.
So in the middle of all this, I realize that we have no idea whether Toedad knows where Becky is. I don’t know whether Blaine knew she had moved into Robin’s swank abode, and Blaine is likely out of the picture anyway. So Toedad may well try to track his daughter to the last place he knew she was staying—I.e. Joyce’s room. Which links to Amber’s room, right?
This could get so bad, you’ve guys…
Ross was staking out Becky’s new place when Mike found them. He knows.
Whew … relief? Hmm
It’s not fair? She says that so often. I wonder what her basis of comparison is.