If I see your little hand weaseling its way towards my cookies, I’ll smack it no matter who you are. That’s called equal treatment, folks: all people are secondary to cookies.
They’ve already arrived. Luckily they noticed each other before seeing Jacob and Joyce.
Their eyes narrowed, the jukebox started playing panflute for some reason, a dove flew between them (from out of the kitchen, someone should alert the health inspector). Then out came the katanas.
Every other table in the restaurant is mesmerized by the spectacle. Joyce hasn’t noticed yet because baby.
Not a central board as such. You see, the jukeboxes are all supplied by the local legitimate business branch of the Mafia. If your pizza place uses too many songs that haven’t had a little donation slipped in to get them on the playlist then it’s possible that your place of business might mysteriously burn down.
It’s like how air and water used to be free at gas stations, but when the pay machines came out the stations that had free gas and water kept having their hoses mysteriously cut until they got with the program.
Also depends if the jukebox is the classic 45 disk changer, CD stack design or either of the newfangled faux facade MP3 player or streaming models.
Either way all of them require micro-payments to the RIAA mafia else rabid lawyers will destroy you financially before you even get to court.
Basically, there is no way that the pose in the last panel is not designed to immediately scream Incriminating Position to an onlooker, and I’m betting Raidah, because of course it’ll be Raidah.
I’ve been expecting Raidah to show up for several strips now. You might want to get a shoe ready for eating just in case. How does one get a shoe ready for eating anyway?
Uh I mean it is pretty shady. I don’t know if it’s the worst relationship behavior we’ve seen considering two girls were in a mutual slow suicide pact based around alcohol and abusive flirting, but it’s not great. Especially coming from Mr. Commitment here. Although I put most of this on Joyce creating this situation to begin with.
I’ve long suspected his earlier flirting style with Joyce was a common thing with him and the source of that history of jealous girlfriends. I’d guess this is further than usual, but it’s possible.
I mean, if EVERY relationship you’ve had was with a jealous partner, either you REALLY know how to pick them or there’s a good chance the issue wasn’t on the partners’ side…
If you keep consistently crashing your car, I’m going to give you the side eye if you go “everyone else is such a bad driver, ugh”
I tried to warn you guys. The Real sham is Jacob’s relationship with Raidah. If Raidah does show up now, it will just enable the Jacob/Joyce ship that much faster.
I wouldn’t say he’s cheating on her yet. He WAS ticked about Joyce’s behaviour, but starting to have feelings. If he started to act on those without breaking up first (e.g. kissing her, going on actual non sham dates that weren’t just revealed to be saving face, etc.), THEN he’s cheating
Right now, this feels like you’re saying he’s cheating for… Having passing thoughts?
It can be subtle and tricky to be sure of, but building a romantic emotional connection with someone else while you have another partner is generally a really awful idea. It can be quite subtle without even realizing you’re creating a problem until you suddenly realize you’ve fallen for this “friend”. Which I think is kind of where Jacob is – the earlier encounters he didn’t realize what was going on, now in this scene he’s become conscious of it.
Joyce has been doing so intentionally for awhile now.
“Wrapping your arm around the girl you were fake dating to impress your brother, and smiling softly as you mention it was nice to pretend she was your gf”
He’s playing along on a fake date, knowing Joyce wants it for real. He’s gone into flirty mode with a woman he knows has feelings for him, and wrapped his arm around her and lets her lean into him.
Yeah, but you have to let people have some space for mistakes. If he only just started to realize his feelings, it’s not realistic to expect him to immediately know how to handle them. Now that he’s becoming aware of his feelings for Joyce, he needs to have a serious think and make a decision.
If he weren’t dating Raidah you might have a point, but he is clearly acting with romantic intent, intent he promised to Raidah and Raidah alone, towards Joyce.
Depends on whether you consider “acting on said feelings” to be restricted to actual sex or to include cuddling them while pretending to be dating.
More generally, if you find yourself having romantic feelings for someone else while in a relationship, you should probably back off on doing things that cause those feelings to grow. Like the casual flirting, like spending time alone with them, etc.
Because you’re playing with fire at that point, as easy as it is to keep telling yourself there’s nothing there and it won’t be a big deal.
Or break up and pursue the new thing of course. Or go poly if everyone’s cool with that. Just don’t keep building the romantic connection and pretending it won’t affect your existing relationship.
The fact that he likes Joyce doesn’t mean his relationship is a sham. He’s barely know either of them; he probably started dating Raidah because he figured he’d like her, even if he ends up deciding it’s not for him.
I mean, yeah. Raidah is pretty clearly exactly what Harrison was joking about earlier, a checklist entry. She’s a perfect-on-paper relationship that I imagine he’s in because he feels like he ought to be.
I agree. Is no one else remembering the whole:
JACOB: “Do you wish sexytimes, attractive girlfriend?”
RAIDSH: “Declined, for reasons of I am withholding and instructing you to study with that time instead. Remember, if you do not achieve to the highest academic standard possible, I, uh, I mean your older brother whom I know you idolize, won’t love you the maximum possible amount.”
JACOB:”ZUG zug. Ok.”
It’s only a small window, but let’s assume that dynamic is ongoing. Now Joyce exists and she just likes and appreciates him and finds him attractive (not that she knows what to do with that but could maybe learn) and they talk about religion and flirt and she doesn’t put odd academic demands on him. I assert the second dynamic is both more appealing and healthier. The Lawfuls seem to feel YOU MUST BE LOYAL. Or maybe AT LEAST BREAK UP WITH RAIDSH FIRST which I can jive with.
I estimate a few more negative straws from Raidah Could break the camel’s back of JAcob’s doubt, this morning is at least making Jacob think.
Yeah any straight dude who dates Joyce will have to navigate a fuckton of repression and self loathing about her sexuality.
Ethan sort of did but was mostly oblivious and had no interest in sex with her so wasn’t as impacted as, say, a walky popping an accidental boner during a cuddle which could send Joyce into a total meltdown.
The repression and self-loathing will be issues, but I suspect there’d be pre-marital hanky-panky within about a week. Joyce is horny. She pretty much threw herself at Ethan at one point and she’s even more physically attracted to Jacob.
The self-loathing would kick in after of course.
Out of nowhere, 5 years into my marriage, I got triggered about a sexual assault that happened before I met my partner and started flashih back during sex.
Just because someone’s horny doesn’t mean sex can’t be hard as hell to navigate and anyone who dates Joyce won’t have half a decade of connection to help weather it.
Joyce throwing herself at a boyfriend is dangerous waters BECAUSE she’ll likely have a total breakdown after it or even during it.
If Joyce just straight up were celibate and comfortable with it? That’d be easier to navigate than the hot mess that is her relationship with sex.
I don’t know. Them getting away with this just seems too easy. Like what. They get away with the lie, Jacob breaks up with Raidah, Joyce gets everything she wanted by lying?
Well, it could be Joyce’s fall to darkness. Roomies! had the Anti Joyce, and it seems like Willis is leading up to a more realistic version of that. So she’d need to get away with shit and start doubting more and more in any sort of karma, inherent goodness, etc.
I’m betting it’ll blow up in her face because of the League of Morons (feat. Toedad. …He’s too stupid to count as a moron) and cause her to finally recenter herself
It would be hilarious if we don’t see Raidah for twenty strips or so until Jacobs go looking for her, and she is all casually “Hi, ex-boyfriend. How’s the new girl?”
I fully expect her elevator pitch about don’t doing jelousity and just moving on to be bullshit, so it would be a nice curveball if she was completely sincere.
I’m so conflicted on whether I want Joyce/Jacob to be a thing, and I expect this to not end on a positive because Willis and because this was all way too easy. Anyone want to put their two cents in on either matter?
This won’t end with them together, but it might start both of them thinking about being together. That’ll be bad for Jacob unless he immediately dumps Raidah and bad for Joyce because she’s already in semi-hot water with a couple of her friends for making moves on Jacob already.
I would say that it flows so naturally and easily is some evidence about why they have a good dynamic. Sometimes things (even naughty things) just work out and go unavenged. “I just kept crawling and it just kept working”.
I find the oddly puritanical view that an agent of justice will always to enforce social norms interesting.
It’s not so much that as that this whole comic is about Joyce’s character growth and this arc leading to happy romance with Jacob doesn’t do character growth. Doing stupid hurtful stuff and getting rewarded for it might be common in reality and it’s certainly common in rom-coms, but it’s counter to the general theme of this comic.
In this case in particular, it’s been emphasized enough that Joyce is screwing up in this whole pursuit that it’s obviously an intentional authorial choice. We’ve looked at both her rom-com hijinks view of romance and her “God’s Will/True Love” version and dissected both of them. She’s not going to then act on those views and have it all work out fine.
This is all going to blow up in her face – because it isn’t reality and because fiction has meaning.
One possibility I hadn’t thought of before is that Dorothy’s warning comes true – Jacob dumps Raidah for her, they get together, Joyce is all happy until Jacob starts flirting with the next cute girl to come along and the cycle repeats. That might be a little too extended for an already extended story arc though.
I think this is fairly likely. So far Jacob has seemed like the perfect boyfriend material, and perfectly in control of his desires and emotions, and his only negative trait is his people-pleasingness. But as we get to know him better, we might learn new and exciting ways in which he might mess things up. I’m very much looking forward to that.
Don’t have the link, but after Radiah, Dorothy, Jacob and Joyce all had lunch together, Dorothy called Joyce out on trying to take Jacob away from current girlfriend and asked if she wanted a guy already prone to moving on like that. Joyce rebutted that it would just be the once because Love.
Nah, I think everyone else is putting way too much weight on it. Acting like they’re out here committing adultery on the table.
The worst thing they’re doing is lying to Harrison, and that’s pretty minor as far as I’m concerned since it’s nothing that actually impacts him. I wouldn’t want to try to count the lies I’ve fed to relatives to keep them happy and off my back.
If Jacob comes out of this believing he would actually be happier with Joyce, he’s the kind of guy to break it off officially before doing anything serious with another girl.
It’s the kind of thing that it really depends on who tells her and how. Does she have a sitcom situation where she sees them apparently all cuddled up and freaks?
Or is Jacob like “Yo, Raidah, you missed the funniest shit earlier. Joyce pretended to be my girlfriend and we totally strung my brother along all lunch. You should have seen his face.”
Jacob isn’t being honest in that scenario (though frankly I still don’t think she’d be cool with it). The truth of the matter is that Jacob went along with this because he decided his brother would be more impressed with Joyce then with her. If Jacob confessed that to Raidah how do you think she’d respond?
See, I’m not sure that’s entirely accurate either. I think Jacob originally went along with it because Harrison was happy, and he didn’t want to make him unhappy, or to hurt Joyce. The relative merits of Joyce and Raidah weren’t thought of until much later when they got to the restaurant. Like Joyce he’s been propelled forward by not wanting to make waves by overturning the original lie that Joyce clearly didn’t consider very rationally.
The situation here is very complicated, and no matter how you spin it to Raidah it will leave something out. I just think it’s uncomfortable how most of the comments here continuously take the most negative spin possible. It just feels so bitter and pointlessly angry.
This date was also shown to be a big deal to Raidah. Something like “Only one chance to make a first impression.” A first impression Joyce a romantic rival she’s very aware of just stole. Even the best case scenario Raidah doesn’t laugh this off. Jacob’s attracted to another woman. Unless Raidah okay with that this could ruin their relationship.
Don’t know actually. All Jacob and Raidah seem to do is walk around together. Have we even seen them kiss? I think that’s mostly because Raidah’s a side character though. She doesn’t get much panel time to develop her character beyond being an antagonist.
It doesn’t really matter whether they actually do something for it to be a relationship. If they consider it a relationship, then it is.
It doesn’t automatically imply that they couldn’t have better ones. Jacob would indeed probably be happier with Joyce. Still, right now what he’s doin is shady, and he should put it to right ASAP.
@sirksome: I would like to congratulate you on actually managing to have the worse take on this situation so far, and you had pretty steep competition. There are people who are averse (sometimes extremely) to actions that society at large considers required to a relationship, but as long as those people agree they are in a relationship, they are.
@JBento Sorry for implying Raidah relationship with Jacob is only valid if she shows public and conventional romantic interest in him. That was not what I meant to say and was worded incorrectly on my part based on my own personal biases. What I meant to communicate in response to Clif’s comment “what relationship” is that Raidah hasn’t had any time to establish what her relationship is with Jacob beyond the more public and shallow parts we’ve seen through the lens of other characters. We don’t even know why she likes him beyond his looks! I’ve actually been one of the people noting that Raidah will take this badly because she cares about her relationship with Jacob instead of dismissing it because Joyce and Jacob are cute together and I don’t even like Raidah! But hey! Thanks for the award! I don’t often win things. If this is still a bad take then we will have to agree to disagree.
This is hitting very close to home for me. I had a fiance that was a generally flirty guy and the final straw that made the relationship fall to pieces was a flirty exchange he had with a friend of ours, where it got revealed that she did want him.
Yes, he’s not fucking Joyce right at the table, but you can cheat on a relationship in ways that dont include your genitalia. He’s playing along with a fake date with a woman he for a fact now knows wants him.
To be fair, almost everyone in this comic needs to be more honest. Exceptions would be Dina who is already almost 100% honest and Malaya, who just is a mean person.
See guys, this isn’t going to get interrupted or go wrong or anything. Everything will go well only know they’ve moved from vaguely flirting with each other to having sampled being a couple and will now be hyper aware of each other all the time. Thing are going to get awkward.
Leaving room for Jesus is not required when snuggling a baby.
Honestly I think this is the most physical contact we’ve seen Joyce have with a straight male that isn’t related to her. Babies really do havr a major power over her.
You assume that the behavior and its merits in a vacuum are all that matters.
Raidah has shown little to no interest in Jacob as a human being – only as a tool. And he the same for her. Their relationship is cold and sterile.
Joyce, meanwhile, has taken a keen interest in who Jacob is and she cares about that person.
So there is a reason I, for one, am cheering this on while I would not cheer on the reverse.
I don’t know if Jacob and Raidah are good for each other in the long run, but man, ‘cold and sterile’ would be stretching it. I don’t think they wouldn’t have gotten together in the first place if they didn’t have some chemistry.
Sarah the woman who is deeply attracted to Jacob and shows signs of respect for him and has never once undermined his confidence or implied she’s mostly with him for his connections?
Sarah is also not ready to make friends and is mostly interested in “dating” him to fuck. It does not make her a bad person but it means she is currently a bad person to date him. The only reason why she might someday in the future be in a position to date him is that realizing he wanted something different than she wanted she took herself out of the race.
You are coloring this entirely through the lens of Raidah as not a main character. She’s not in focus so we don’t see her and Jacob’s relationship as a function of those two dating.
Raidah has opposed Sarah, therefore she must be bad! We always follow Joyce and we’ve seen her grow so we’re supposed to like her more.
The MCs get away with so much shit in the series until they do something far and away off color and I’m sick of it. Yall are still mad at Rachel for standing her ground against Ruth because you’ve only seen what Ruth is doing to improve but not what she did to hurt Rachel. This is the same.
Also because her comments hurt quite a few other people in the room (e.g. Amber, Joyce, Billie… Heck, potentially everybody who has ever screwed up and then worked to overcome the reasons behind that – because if redemption isn’t real their efforts are meaningless, they are the sum of their flaws with no light…)
Which is entirely on the writer if that’s not the impression they mean to convey.
We’ve seen enough of Raidah that the negative impressions are justified. We haven’t been shown much good to counter that. That’s either intentional characterization or bad writing. I’ve got my suspicions as to which. 🙂
Of course, I don’t have to like Raidah to dislike what Joyce has been doing in this plot arc.
Wow, I have been struggling to figure out what I think of Raidah and Jacob, and you nailed it, that is pretty much exactly how I think of them, thank you.
I’m not sure that judging her “temper and insecurities” is really a good look for someone who walks in her boyfriend cuddling a girl she knows is trying to take him away.
If Raidah is calm, withering in her scorn and doesn’t give Joyce an inch of wiggle room because she’s factual in all her statements, she not only wins but I doubt Joyce would ever dare show her face around Jacob again. If she starts screaming, shouting, threatening and, most terribly, makes Jamie cry, then Harrison will characterise her as a ‘psycho stalker ex’ and that will be the end of her relationship with Jacob because Jacob would never want to have anything to do with her again, setting aside whether he’d dare to have a GF that has irked his idolised older brother.
Uh … just a reminder, Joyce, that there’s more to having a baby than just saying “I want one”. It’s not like going to the animal shelter and picking out a puppy.
Kind of. If you’re willing to take a non white baby with health problems then adoption can be a lot simpler and yeah yiu can sort of custom order them.
Especially if you’re open to fostering instead of adopting, so if yiu only want babies you can just keep giving them back to the birth parents and always have a baby. (Im oversimplifying!) Although Joyce won’t be eligible for either as a dorm living college student.
Becky actually might qualify to foster, funnily enough.
She might mean Jacob’s brother, and also, I don’t think she knows about Jocelyne yet. (Really hoping that’s the correct name, because I’m too lazy to go check.)
Raidah loses her project to have an academically and physically superior trophy husband with a well connected lawyer brother, on her path to her vision of her perfect future as a lawyer lobbyist or whatever. Which is all JAcob is to her, I’m pretty sure. I think Jacob senses this on some level which could explain why he is so ambivalent about her. And why Harrison doesn’t even know enough about her to know Joyce isn’t her.
If I believed Raidah cared deeply about Jacob and he her, I would agree with pro-Raidah sentiment too. But I don’t. This whole situation would be impossible if that were true.
I agree with Shane. Who gives the south end of a rat what Raidah thinks or wants? And as for all these calls for honesty and discovering the truth, we never discover “the truth” about most of the people we know. When you see a sibling or close friend get married, how often do you really know whether they’re right for each other? If your sister-in-law tells you how much she loves your brother, do you really know she’ll never cheat, divorce him, take the kids and the house? If your best friend tells you her b/f is the most loving man in the world, will you be surprised to find that he’s abusing her? Finally, when someone tells you the relationship just isn’t working out, do you ever really know the reason? People often lie in such situations, either because they don’t want to hurt anyone, or because they want to avoid drama, or simply because they figure no one deserves to know their innermost thoughts.
But I d’ont see how that’s relevant. The point is not that he should stay with Raidah, the point is that even if their relationship is one of convenience, she’s her girlfriend, and breaking up properly (or alternatively not ‘dating’ other girls without permission) is the decent thing to do.
Now, he’s been caught up in the situation and hasn’t really had time to pause, so while what he’s doing is not cool, that doesn’t make him a monster. But if he wants to keep his good guy status he’ll have to come clean the second Harrisson leaves.
Yeah, the point her isn’t so much whether Raidah is good or bad or even whether their relationship is good or bad, it’s always been about Joyce’s behavior and now more and more Jacob’s behavior.
You can be doing a bad thing even if the person hurt by it is an asshole.
It’s super-cool how much people are willing to justify cheating and violation of consent just because the people doing the cheating are more familiar to them than the victim.
Clearly the ex-girlfriend was just a frigid bongo and deserved to be cheated on.
Everything goes well, they go their separate ways, jacob meets raidah and needs to force a second lunch into himself after telling her Harrison had to cancel but raidah still wants to go and eat something
Radiah: “I’m starving, let’s order a large pizza.”
Episode ends on zoom-in of Jacob’s pained expression. Laugh track. End credits. Next episode doesn’t mention the episode
What if it’s REALLY BAD PIZ- HAHAHAHAHA.
*wipes tears*
Man, I almost managed to get through with implying there’s such a thing as bad pizza with a straight face.
There is a very real possibility, I think, of Raidah walking in and having a ‘have I missed something?’ moment. I mean, just look at Jacob, Joyce and Jamie: Don’t they look like an actual family? I’m pretty sure that Raidah’s sense of reality would be strong enough to resist it but there would be a significant temptation to look at that and convince yourself that you’ve somehow skipped a year and a marriage!
You know, Raidah doesn’t actually need to drop in on this for there to be consequences.
She just needs to meet Jacob again. I don’t think he’s the kind of guy who’s gonna be able to keep this kinda thing under his hat long term, especially if he’s starting to compare Joyce and Raidah in his head; and there’s no way that’ll end clean.
This is unrelated to the comic (le gasp!), but I’m too excited to not talk about it.
I’ve recently taken up tabletop miniature painting as a hobby (chances are you’re looking at my latest work, if you can see my grav) and it’s super satisfying. My D&D group meets up at one of the game shops downtown, and I’ve gotten a few compliments on my paint jobs during sessions. The other night, the shop owner asked if I’d like to paint an owlbear mini he’d just bought to use in the store, and I agreed. When I brought it back in to drop off for him, I got more compliments than usual, which honestly felt really good.
Well, tonight when I showed up for the game, the shop owner asked me to come back to one of the tables, head a surprise I should see. Out comes three shopping bags, full of miniatures. Apparently, the co-owner just buys a lot of unpainted minis for the store, and he saw my owlbear and wants to know if I take commissions. Obviously, I’m extremely interested, so I’m gonna take up that offer. My work, on display and used to enhance people’s campaigns? Hell yes.
What I’m not 100% sure on is the price. I figure a few bucks each, but the exact amount is foggy. Materials + time seems like a good start, but I’m not super experienced yet, so that feels like an important factor. I also don’t want to go too high and scare them off before we even make a deal. The sizes range from teeny goblins to actual dragons, so a flat rate might work against me? Basically, I’m asking if anyone can help point me in the right direction.
Yeah with that much size variety, a flat rate won’t work out in anyone’s favor. Small figures might end up too expensive, and you’d take an opportunity cost loss on larger or more intricate ones.
Is the shop’s main intent to resell, or keep them at the store for tabletop groups to borrow? That can affect how much they’re willing to pay.
Maybe start by painting up a few of different sizes. Keep track of the time you put into them. Then you can present these to the store owners as a sampler, and you can see what they’re prepared to offer you.
Of course, the satisfaction you’ll get from this is priceless, so weigh that against monetary gain.
How long do the figures take to do, and what do you think a fair hourly rate would be? Naturally, larger or more intricate figures would take more time and therefore cost more. If you can categorize them into a few rough piles by how long they’ll take to do, you can work out how much each kind will cost on average. (Keep it to no more than 3 categories if you can, just to keep things simple.)
Each one takes me a few hours, start to finish. Depending on size and detail, it’s about 2-6 hours. I apply really light layers and dry them thoroughly in between, so that time is spaced out over the course of the day. For paid work, I would want to be even more precise, so that might get jacked up an hour or two.
I know a bunch of people who take commissions for painting minis (mostly for Warhammer), I’ll ask them. I can tell you right off the bat that a flat rate is a terrible idea. Size and miniature detail are more important, plus how many of that type are you painting (though that mostly applies to wargaming – when they paint a unit of 50 models that are mostly all the same with few details, the price isn’t 50x one mini)
In the complete absence of any information about what it would cost him to have someone else do them AND given this is something you would enjoy anyway, estimate how much time this would take you in hours, add a little extra for error, and then charge minimum wage rate. There is no way you should get less than whatever minimum wage is in your area and that gives him the best deal he should be able to get.
Here, minimum wage is $7.25, and paint cost would add about $3, with m normal brand (Vallejo). So, maybe $10-11 for Medium-sized figures, scaling upward to about $30-35 for the bigger dragons/dinosaurs? That seems not so bad for either side.
Aah that’s really cool!! No idea about the pricing but one thing that I’ve read for jewellery making is that if “but I’m inexperienced and largely a hobbyist”-makers barely charge more than their materials, pros and semipros end up looking crazy-expensive when they price their pieces accurately taking their time into account. So don’t automatically devalue your work or time!
You can always say I’ve done some research and I think $X for this size, $Y for this size would be about right – does that sound reasonable to you?” and go from there. If he says it’s a lot more than he was thinking you can always offer to double-check your maths, or ask him again (now some figures have been floated) what sort of range was he thinking about, and say you can do the sums to see if you can work with that.
I would look at three numbers as a starting point. What the expenses are, and what pays you minimum wage plus expenses, and what pays you your current wage plus expenses. Another thing is expenses might change based on what quality of paint you use and thats something you can discuss with him. Now remember often times activities you do for fun are not as fun once you have a deadline and quota, or once you have to do them a certain amount of time.
If your going to do it seriously I would start with your current wage or higher and let him make a counter offer, don’t go below minimum wage.
I define doing it not seriously as the first question you ask yourself when taking on a job is do I feel like doing this right now even if I don’t get paid.
If you can’t get a price that’s appealing to you. I believe for a small amount it might just be fun to not have to pay money to do your hobby and any take home is bonus. You can offer to do a limited amount when you feel like it at a price below minimum wage.
I like this as a sort of in-between. Charge a little less for models I just feel like painting at my own leisure, and normal rate for the normal setup.
Yup, at this point Jacob wants Joyce more than he wants Raidah. Don’t know exactly what he or Raidah will do about that, but I don’t see them staying together very much longer.
Amazing symphony of Joyce-faces here.
All the people two strips ago who want Joyce to have some kind of character growth (usually stemming from “punishment”) because her arc demands it: I don’t think it’s quite that kind of strip. Joyce is based on a real-life person. In real life, people don’t always receive the lesson that others think they deserve.
Joyce is handling this very intelligently, setting up an opening for Jacob to let Harrison down gently without making Joyce look too bad. I’m rather impressed; I didn’t think she had so much social judo.
By the way, three or four strips ago, when Joyce was all, “I’m going to go nope from your life forever, but gee this has been fun, hasn’t it?” Was I the only person who thought that was a tad manipulative?
Oh wow, I just realized. Joyce has been raised in an extremely manipulative environment which kept her naive and sheltered. It’s easy to assume that means she has no social skill. But in fact, she’s probably absorbed a whole lot of manipulative techniques, deeply enough that she may use them without even being aware of them.
So, perhaps this arc is not about “Joyce tries a stupid invasive thing, gets shot down, and learns a lesson.” Perhaps it’s about “Joyce is discovering powers she never knew she had.” Are those powers good? No. Are they bad? Sometimes. Do they require an instant consequence, either narratively or in real life? NO.
Joyce isn’t a perfect 1 to 1 with Willis. He’s talked about how he and Joyce are different in a lot of ways before (Joyce is more social, Joyce is generally nicer than he was at this point, etc.) Regardless, this isn’t real life and in fiction, it’s not very satisfying if one of the main characters main flaws never has any consequences for it – sometimes that’s the point but I don’t think that’s what Willis is going for here.
It doesn’t need to be instant, but Joyce being terrible about other people’s boundaries is something that’s been driving me nuts for years. Sue me for hoping this arc would be when it was addressed.
I’m not going to sue you for hoping Joyce improves. There’s a big difference between “Joyce annoys me and I hope she improves soon” and “Joyce is being a terrible person and I’m going to hate this arc unless she’s properly punished.”
And yeah, I didn’t think she was 1:1 with Willis. Just that she’s “based on a true story” rather than “constructed from scratch to fit the story.”
Didn’t Joyce get choked by Sal at one point? That’s a consequence. And she could probably have more friends if she were better at boundaries. Maybe it’s that I like fiction more the more realistic it is. Realistic according to its own universe’s rules, of course – I have no problem with fantasy and SF, as long as its universe is well designed and it doesn’t break its own rules. But I want people to act like people, not like pawns in a narrative arc. (Maybe that’s why I never really got into the Greek classics.)
It would be nice if, in real life, everyone got appropriate comeuppance for their character flaws. …No it wouldn’t, it would be horrible. It would be nice if everyone except me got comeuppance for their flaws.
But in any case, that’s not how the world works. It’s how we like to tell little kids the world works (and I’m constantly searching for something wiser to tell my kids, that will prepare them better to be real-world adults).
Many people do like Greek classics, and I’m not at all saying they’re wrong. And I don’t know whether this comic is going to be more along the lines of “Willis makes sure people get what they deserve” or more like “the characters tell Willis how they will react and so the story unfolds.” I kind of hope it’s the latter. Sounds like you prefer the former, and I’m not saying you’re wrong.
The problem is that a lot of Joyce’s ‘consequences’ are played for comedy, or very, very quickly resolved.
Yes, she learns – she’s less idolistic of Sal, she’s better about gay people, etc. But a lot of times, these lessons are less as consequence of her own actions, but more about others. Joyce defended Dorothy because Carol is terrible. She jumped to save Becky because Toedad is well, Toedad. She decides to be better about Sal partly because of Sal’s own issues with being stereotyped.
Many of Joyce’s continued problems – forcibly trying to bring people together, disrespecting boundaries, a continued denial of anything scientific – are often just blatantly ignored when called out on, or seemingly resolved with no consequence or remorse. And as one of the main characters of a comic which is mostly grounded in reality, that’s very frustrating to keep seeing.
I don’t think she should be punished, or anything. But if Dorothy or Sarah or Joe directly call her out on her behaviour and try to address it, I’d like for her to actually listen, for once.
It’s not even necessarily “properly punished”? How about “not rewarded by the crappy behavior working”?
I mean comic exaggerations aside, the punishment most of us are looking for is “Jacob is mad at her for messing with his relationship”. That’s not really that cruel.
I’m not saying this is necessarily unrealistic – you’re right, realistically, people don’t always have consequences for crappy things that they do. Liking realistic fiction is fine – BUT in real life, people aren’t happy when other people don’t have consequences for doing crappy things. I don’t see why my reaction should be different because it’s fictional. I like A Song of Ice and Fire, which is the style of storytelling you like. Tywin didn’t have any consequences for ordering the murder of innocent children and Elia Martell. I like Tywin. He’s a good character. It still bothers me nothing happened to him for having Elia and her kids killed.
Joyce learned absolute jack from Sal choking her. She learned a little bit from Sal screaming at her a couple times, which I am proud of Joyce for. However, this is still a big part of her arc and it still annoys me. I am going to hate this arc if it ends up all working out for her, the same way I’d hate it if it worked out for her IRL, however, I’m not convinced that it will – even if she and Jacob hook up, I don’t think her friends will be as happy for her as she wants them to be (Dorothy comes to mind) and I think it’s also possible thejeff is right about Jacob will end up flirty with the next cute girl.
Am I the only one who thinks that, underneath the obvious flirting, Joyce is actually setting up an easy out for this whole panicked-and-implied-a-relationship mess? Because now “oh haha funny funny we WERE actually just kidding about the relationship because baby” is actually on the table and they can both gracefully slide out of pretending to be dating
And Jacob isn’t exactly enthusiastic about taking her up on it.
At one level, when she lied about being his girlfriend, she took away control that he should have had. Now she’s giving him the control back. He can do what he wants… which means he has to decide and choose what he wants to do… and he’s realizing that he actually wants to be with Joyce.
Even in context I think it’s pretty clear that the “out” is banter. It would be weird if Joyce at this moment said “Yup!” and handed Jaime back and left.
Wow you people take this stuff way too seriously. You act as if these two are real and they’re committing a heinous crime. Jeez.
People really seem to forget that this series started with one of them dating a homosexual guy thinking they could change them, as well as hired a known misanthrope to punch her date every time he looked at another woman.
They also seem to forget that in another universe, one of them was ALOT worse than even this and still got better, and the other was an open nymphomaniac trying to recover but failing, and would sleep with anyone regardless of who they were related too. These two are SAINTS compared to their other versions.
I mean, bah god?! I watch these comments sections looking for funny bits and yet all I see is people calling these two garbage for acting like human beings and making stupid decisions in a series called DUMBING OF AGE.
And remember. I call myself the DemonChickenOfDoom, and named myself after a character from a Fanfic that acts like a lunatic and has a rivalry with the freaking floor. And yet somehow even THAT is more sane than all this.
In this universe, Jacob doesn’t know he’s a sexual addict because he’s never had sex. Mike doesn’t know what he’s like when he’s drunk because he’s never been drunk. Good times ahead.
I thought he was sex addict in this universe because he didn’t want to have sex and sexualities remain constant, and I’m of the opinion that means more than gender preference. But Willis said that if that’s something he’s still prone to in this universe it hasn’t happened yet. Mike being a happy drunk might not be a thing in this universe
I’m glad you’re enjoying this storyline, but that doesn’t entitle you to a positive reaction from others, no more than me not enjoying a storyline makes me entitled to have no one else like it.
And sure, the story’s about bad decisions and other verses have been worse. That doesn’t mean this plot line in this verse can’t be extremely aggravating for some of us and we’re allowed to talk about that.
I hope they drop the facade before Raidah/Sarah/Mike/The Cheese comes and rips away the curtain. I dunno if I can handle that much cringe and second hand shame
I think I’m done with the comment section for a while, because I’m about one more post calling people puritans for thinking Jacob and Joyce are being shitty away from getting myself banned.
If any of you need me, I’m on Patreon. Posting this here so you know I’m not sick or whatever.
I think I’m going to do this too. I don’t have the mental or emotional energy to deal with people constantly referring to me as puritanical or unreasonable because I’m not completely on board with this (seriously, Jacob, just break up with Raidah and put an end to all this shenanigans).
At this point, what’s bothering me is not the plotline itself but the commenters’ reactions to other people’s reactions. Like I said yesterday, my issue is purely with the behaviour of two fictional characters while other commenters seems to take issue with the opinions of real people and judge said real people accordingly.
This is made worse by the fact that it’s stretching out foreeeeeeveeeeeerrrrrrrrr. It’s like the Superior Spider-Man storyline, which could’ve benefited from being cut down to at least 3/4 length, except that was better because nobody was going “Doc Ock is in the right.”
I hope this isn’t causing you actual “even away from the computer” stress?
Jacob and Joyce are not considering Raidah’s existence very much. It’s pretty sucky. They’re cute together but the potential for it to backfire in their faces is quite high (or e.g. for it to turn out that Jacob is a serial flirt and bad at commitment, and this to dial up Joyce’s neuroses to “supernova”) – it isn’t a good way to start a relationship.
My now-husband and I lost a friend when we got together coz he was pissed off on behalf of my husband’s ex (a mutual friend) – who had definitely moved in with the guy she was seeing after him by then, and I believe they got engaged around the time we got together (which was about 2 years after she and my husband split up)… I talked to her about it to make sure she was OK with it. We’re still friends. But sometimes other people take sides even when nobody is asking them to.
I can’t see Joe, for one, being happy about them getting together like this (especially as a large part of his “casual flings only” attitude stems from having seen his mother being hurt by his father cheating on her). Dorothy will probably also have a few choice words, although she may take it less personally and be able to get past it with time…
No more stress than any other internet comment saying things that avoids me. Like, 5 minutes max. But there were a lot and so I decided to peace out for a coulee days. I’m back now.
I realized that a lot of my favorite fictional characters got good results from evil and or stupid decisions but usually not the results they were looking for at the time. Of course the ones that pop to my head the show was blatent about them being the villiens at the time.
Jessie, James, Meowth, (each other) 626, Jumba,(Ohana) Mewtwo(his clone children).
Hey I know we’re all about this relationship drama but moment of appreciation for Jacob, who takes the conversation away from the kidnapping in panel 4 because Joyce is uncomfortable, good man.
If Gwenpool has taught me anything, you are either a main character or you’re in danger of being written out of the story. Raidah is not a main character, she is a plot device. Her instrumental approach to Jacob dooms her as anything other than a potential villain. She might have 4-5 days left before we never see her again, unless she becomes a nemesis. But even they have limited appearances (Sydney Yuss).
Jaime is a plot device, giving Joyce an entry point into the lunch and now a possible exit line. By tomorrow (comic time) he’ll be gone and might never be seen again.
Joyce is acting to maintain her place as focus of the story, ensuring her continued prominence.
Yes, Gwenpool has ruined narrative structure for me.
Well, sometimes it takes temporary insanity and a train wreck to get two people together. To make this perfect, now would be a good time for Raidah to enter the scene.
Jaime now has a speaking part. So the voice actor must be paid union scale.
This dream sequence has not shown us Harrison’s wife. Or what she might think. As a main character, Joyce may abduct other people’s babies — as long as they are part of the Hero’s Journey.
I used ctrl+f and it turns out noone has written “Joshua” or “Jocelyne” yet. Joyce isn’t only talking about Harrison when she says “super awesome big brothers”, she’s also talking about her own big brother who’s actually a big sister.
“Relationships” started in logic (not animal magnetism) are likely to end in the same way – calculatedly, and without heartbreak. Raidah will show up, be grossed out by baby poop and/or barf – or maybe she’s just uncomfortable around kids – and Jacob, having seen the thing he actually wants in Joyce (a women you want, lovingly holding a baby is irresistible), will end it with Raidah and start behaving like a (hu)man and get it together with Joyce.
Loading ...
as it turns out, even the pizza order is a sham
Mythic Pizza?
I understood that reference.
I mean, it almost was until Jacob saved the day from Joyce’s pretence of being able to eat weird pizza
I thought that was Dorothy that saved the day.
I thought Mighty Mouse came to save the day.
Have no fear…
Neither bird, nor plane, or even frog…
Bizarro come, to wreck the day!
Dam, you beat me too it. I have been trying to use that line for years, I finally get a gold plated opportunity, and you beat me too it.
Separate times, separate pizza. Same ol’ Joyce.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-10/01-birthday-pursuit/grownup/
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/pickles/
The pie is a lie?
Sham? Well I knew we had a high plot thread count, but I didn’t know we had a case of pillow-ry.
Go directly to pun-prison. Do not pass Joe. Do not collect one Internet.
No. Bad, Jacob. Don’t encourage her.
Know how on her first attempt at a date, Joyce hired Mike as a chaperone-slash-Joe-puncher?
This date really would have benefited from Sarah standing by with a rolled up newspaper.
Once again wish we could upvote comments on here!
Sarah wants this to happen though, so not sure that would change anything.
Sarah unleashed forces she can’t controll. Not even with a rolled up newspaper
Isn’t that the way it always happens.
If you can even find a newspaper to roll up in the first place.
They sell the campus paper downstairs at the dorms. Joyce was reading it when she ran into Jacob’s brother and nephew.
Most campus papers aren’t hefty enough to make an effective swatter when rolled up. You need two or three copies.
While that is not proper training for dogs, it is remarkably effective with humans, but please: “Don’t hit the women.”
If I see your little hand weaseling its way towards my cookies, I’ll smack it no matter who you are. That’s called equal treatment, folks: all people are secondary to cookies.
I cannot help but agree with this.
It’s ok, Sarah and/or Raidah are likely about to arrive at this point
They’ve already arrived. Luckily they noticed each other before seeing Jacob and Joyce.
Their eyes narrowed, the jukebox started playing panflute for some reason, a dove flew between them (from out of the kitchen, someone should alert the health inspector). Then out came the katanas.
Every other table in the restaurant is mesmerized by the spectacle. Joyce hasn’t noticed yet because baby.
Does Indiana allow jukeboxes to play panflute music? It seems out of character somehow.
…that’s not regulated, is it?
…shit, now I start to wonder if that IS regulated. Is there a central board of jukebox playlist curration.
Not a central board as such. You see, the jukeboxes are all supplied by the local legitimate business branch of the Mafia. If your pizza place uses too many songs that haven’t had a little donation slipped in to get them on the playlist then it’s possible that your place of business might mysteriously burn down.
It’s like how air and water used to be free at gas stations, but when the pay machines came out the stations that had free gas and water kept having their hoses mysteriously cut until they got with the program.
I want to believe
And here I thought that was because people tended to abuse stuff they got for free, but respected things they had to pay for.
Also depends if the jukebox is the classic 45 disk changer, CD stack design or either of the newfangled faux facade MP3 player or streaming models.
Either way all of them require micro-payments to the RIAA mafia else rabid lawyers will destroy you financially before you even get to court.
I mean, this IS Galasso’s. I assume that sort of thing happens every other week.
There can be only one! bongo.
Panflute? I’m hearing Ennio Morricone, but maybe that’s just me.
Narrator voice: He did encourage her.
Jacob is not encouraging her. Jacob is self-narrating.
At this point, Jacob wants Joyce more than he wants Raidah.
Wow, that was way too smooth
Joyce’s game face in panels one and five are something else. She recovered nicely.
But then the way that Jacob echoed her own words back at her. They are good at this flirting thing.
Did you notice Jacob’s arm and where it moved to?
Because I noticed Jacob’s arm and where it moved to.
@Joyce: You go girl.
I don’t think Joyce has noticed yet. Because baby.
Oh? Then, why is she leaning in to him like that?
Big bro totally noticed though and is clearly awwing at it from the inside.^^
Okay, calling it now: If Raidah does not appear in the next comic, I will eat a shoe. Cartoon-style, like Charlie Chaplin.
Basically, there is no way that the pose in the last panel is not designed to immediately scream Incriminating Position to an onlooker, and I’m betting Raidah, because of course it’ll be Raidah.
I dunno, it could look like they’re both cuddling the baby.
Raidah might show up, but, not just because of the pose.
And they claim Joyce is Harrison’s girlfriend to keep Jacob out of trouble?
I think it was actually a licorice prop, so if you go that route, I will count it.
I would rather eat a shoe than licorice.
I really hope that trope gets subverted. Sometimes things really do just happen.
I’ve been expecting Raidah to show up for several strips now. You might want to get a shoe ready for eating just in case. How does one get a shoe ready for eating anyway?
Lots of ketchup.
Eating a shoe? Pictures or it didn’t happen.
Replete with some unnecessary narration.
Next comic we’re cutting back to Billie and Walkie. Hope you have catsup.
Nope. Don’t like that.
Shame on you Jacob
The EYES in this strip, gosh
They’ve both got the flirty eyes, ayup.
You can’t hide, your flirtin’ eyes,
An’ yer triangle is a thin disguise.
I thought by now Raidah realize,
A rolled up newspaper will be yer prize.
You’re a terrible boyfriend, Jacob.
Joyce, fuck off.
I guess there’s no need to ask how you really feel about all this.
Uh I mean it is pretty shady. I don’t know if it’s the worst relationship behavior we’ve seen considering two girls were in a mutual slow suicide pact based around alcohol and abusive flirting, but it’s not great. Especially coming from Mr. Commitment here. Although I put most of this on Joyce creating this situation to begin with.
They share equal responsibility by this point.
After Jacob’s arm went around her in the last panel, they share responsibility.
I didn’t think I’d been subtle, though for a while I tried to keep it relatively humorously curmudgeonly. 😛
and did a great job of it, I might add 🙂
We didn’t suspect thing. 😉
We didn’t suspect A thing. Either.
I dunno, that orange rock guy always looked pretty shady to me, with his trenchcoats and fedoras and all.
Not to mention the naked …um, dude?… who was entirely too handy.
She’s considering fucking all right. That baby she wants to have with Jacob needs to get in production!
I mean, if she left the restaurant while holding the baby, she would probably have to leave for a while, if only because she’d get arrested. XD
also, what are you talking about? Jacob is a great boyfriend to Joyce. Caring and supportive and including. a+, would boyfriend again.
He’d be a better one if he wasn’t being an absolute dick to his actual, non- Joyce girlfriend.
Ooooh, THAt girlfriend. Yeah, that is a bit of an oopsie-doodle.
Honestly! Who Cares! 😀
This flirting is TOO Good
*fans oneself*
I relly want these two too get together soon
If this is any indication of how he might have acted before, then i completely understand why he has a history of “jealous girlfriends”…
I suddenly realise we only have HIS version of that story.
I’ve long suspected his earlier flirting style with Joyce was a common thing with him and the source of that history of jealous girlfriends. I’d guess this is further than usual, but it’s possible.
oh no
I mean, if EVERY relationship you’ve had was with a jealous partner, either you REALLY know how to pick them or there’s a good chance the issue wasn’t on the partners’ side…
If you keep consistently crashing your car, I’m going to give you the side eye if you go “everyone else is such a bad driver, ugh”
Hear, hear! ^^
Only if it’s to Spongebob Squarepants.
Agreed. Willis has successfully murdered these characters for me.
I tried to warn you guys. The Real sham is Jacob’s relationship with Raidah. If Raidah does show up now, it will just enable the Jacob/Joyce ship that much faster.
I really hope Raidah shows up, because at this point Jacob is basically cheating on her and she has a right to know.
I wouldn’t say he’s cheating on her yet. He WAS ticked about Joyce’s behaviour, but starting to have feelings. If he started to act on those without breaking up first (e.g. kissing her, going on actual non sham dates that weren’t just revealed to be saving face, etc.), THEN he’s cheating
Right now, this feels like you’re saying he’s cheating for… Having passing thoughts?
He’s cheating on her, this is clearly emotional cheating…
…
How do you define emotional cheating?
As this. Points at strip above.
It can be subtle and tricky to be sure of, but building a romantic emotional connection with someone else while you have another partner is generally a really awful idea. It can be quite subtle without even realizing you’re creating a problem until you suddenly realize you’ve fallen for this “friend”. Which I think is kind of where Jacob is – the earlier encounters he didn’t realize what was going on, now in this scene he’s become conscious of it.
Joyce has been doing so intentionally for awhile now.
“Wrapping your arm around the girl you were fake dating to impress your brother, and smiling softly as you mention it was nice to pretend she was your gf”
He’s playing along on a fake date, knowing Joyce wants it for real. He’s gone into flirty mode with a woman he knows has feelings for him, and wrapped his arm around her and lets her lean into him.
I’d say he’s cheating.
Yeah, but you have to let people have some space for mistakes. If he only just started to realize his feelings, it’s not realistic to expect him to immediately know how to handle them. Now that he’s becoming aware of his feelings for Joyce, he needs to have a serious think and make a decision.
If he weren’t dating Raidah you might have a point, but he is clearly acting with romantic intent, intent he promised to Raidah and Raidah alone, towards Joyce.
He’s fucking cheating.
It’s perfectly realistic to expect people to not cheat on their partners actually.
Depends on if you define cheating by having romantic feelings for someone or by acting on said feelings.
Depends on whether you consider “acting on said feelings” to be restricted to actual sex or to include cuddling them while pretending to be dating.
More generally, if you find yourself having romantic feelings for someone else while in a relationship, you should probably back off on doing things that cause those feelings to grow. Like the casual flirting, like spending time alone with them, etc.
Because you’re playing with fire at that point, as easy as it is to keep telling yourself there’s nothing there and it won’t be a big deal.
Or break up and pursue the new thing of course. Or go poly if everyone’s cool with that. Just don’t keep building the romantic connection and pretending it won’t affect your existing relationship.
The fact that he likes Joyce doesn’t mean his relationship is a sham. He’s barely know either of them; he probably started dating Raidah because he figured he’d like her, even if he ends up deciding it’s not for him.
*gotten to know
I mean, yeah. Raidah is pretty clearly exactly what Harrison was joking about earlier, a checklist entry. She’s a perfect-on-paper relationship that I imagine he’s in because he feels like he ought to be.
Agreed.
I agree. Is no one else remembering the whole:
JACOB: “Do you wish sexytimes, attractive girlfriend?”
RAIDSH: “Declined, for reasons of I am withholding and instructing you to study with that time instead. Remember, if you do not achieve to the highest academic standard possible, I, uh, I mean your older brother whom I know you idolize, won’t love you the maximum possible amount.”
JACOB:”ZUG zug. Ok.”
It’s only a small window, but let’s assume that dynamic is ongoing. Now Joyce exists and she just likes and appreciates him and finds him attractive (not that she knows what to do with that but could maybe learn) and they talk about religion and flirt and she doesn’t put odd academic demands on him. I assert the second dynamic is both more appealing and healthier. The Lawfuls seem to feel YOU MUST BE LOYAL. Or maybe AT LEAST BREAK UP WITH RAIDSH FIRST which I can jive with.
I estimate a few more negative straws from Raidah Could break the camel’s back of JAcob’s doubt, this morning is at least making Jacob think.
Quick and easy way to break up with Raidah: “I think I’m in the wrong field. I’m changing my major to religion.”
Yeah any straight dude who dates Joyce will have to navigate a fuckton of repression and self loathing about her sexuality.
Ethan sort of did but was mostly oblivious and had no interest in sex with her so wasn’t as impacted as, say, a walky popping an accidental boner during a cuddle which could send Joyce into a total meltdown.
The repression and self-loathing will be issues, but I suspect there’d be pre-marital hanky-panky within about a week. Joyce is horny. She pretty much threw herself at Ethan at one point and she’s even more physically attracted to Jacob.
The self-loathing would kick in after of course.
Possibly during…
Out of nowhere, 5 years into my marriage, I got triggered about a sexual assault that happened before I met my partner and started flashih back during sex.
Just because someone’s horny doesn’t mean sex can’t be hard as hell to navigate and anyone who dates Joyce won’t have half a decade of connection to help weather it.
Joyce throwing herself at a boyfriend is dangerous waters BECAUSE she’ll likely have a total breakdown after it or even during it.
If Joyce just straight up were celibate and comfortable with it? That’d be easier to navigate than the hot mess that is her relationship with sex.
Sorry that happened to you 🙁 I hope you’ve processed the trauma and it’s no longer actively affecting your life.
That’s something Jacob will have to resolve.
Huh. Kinda thought Raidah would show up by now. Guess there’s still time.
Raidah’s spidah senses are not tingling.
I’m not sure that’s where this is going.
I don’t know. Them getting away with this just seems too easy. Like what. They get away with the lie, Jacob breaks up with Raidah, Joyce gets everything she wanted by lying?
I trust Willis to go somewhere interesting with this. In the meantime I’m enjoying it.
Well, it could be Joyce’s fall to darkness. Roomies! had the Anti Joyce, and it seems like Willis is leading up to a more realistic version of that. So she’d need to get away with shit and start doubting more and more in any sort of karma, inherent goodness, etc.
I’m betting it’ll blow up in her face because of the League of Morons (feat. Toedad. …He’s too stupid to count as a moron) and cause her to finally recenter herself
It would be hilarious if we don’t see Raidah for twenty strips or so until Jacobs go looking for her, and she is all casually “Hi, ex-boyfriend. How’s the new girl?”
I fully expect her elevator pitch about don’t doing jelousity and just moving on to be bullshit, so it would be a nice curveball if she was completely sincere.
I’d originally thought she was sincere, but her tactics on noticing Joyce’s interest pretty much killed that idea.
I don’t see Raidah being, uh, friendly to an ex that cheated on her.
She isn’t even that friendly in general.
She’s about as friendly as any of the main characters.
Guessing she has a class and will find them towards the end of their lunch
I’m so conflicted on whether I want Joyce/Jacob to be a thing, and I expect this to not end on a positive because Willis and because this was all way too easy. Anyone want to put their two cents in on either matter?
This won’t end with them together, but it might start both of them thinking about being together. That’ll be bad for Jacob unless he immediately dumps Raidah and bad for Joyce because she’s already in semi-hot water with a couple of her friends for making moves on Jacob already.
I would say that it flows so naturally and easily is some evidence about why they have a good dynamic. Sometimes things (even naughty things) just work out and go unavenged. “I just kept crawling and it just kept working”.
I find the oddly puritanical view that an agent of justice will always to enforce social norms interesting.
But this comic is Dumbing of Age: A Morality Play. It says so right there in the title.
It’s not so much that as that this whole comic is about Joyce’s character growth and this arc leading to happy romance with Jacob doesn’t do character growth. Doing stupid hurtful stuff and getting rewarded for it might be common in reality and it’s certainly common in rom-coms, but it’s counter to the general theme of this comic.
In this case in particular, it’s been emphasized enough that Joyce is screwing up in this whole pursuit that it’s obviously an intentional authorial choice. We’ve looked at both her rom-com hijinks view of romance and her “God’s Will/True Love” version and dissected both of them. She’s not going to then act on those views and have it all work out fine.
This is all going to blow up in her face – because it isn’t reality and because fiction has meaning.
One possibility I hadn’t thought of before is that Dorothy’s warning comes true – Jacob dumps Raidah for her, they get together, Joyce is all happy until Jacob starts flirting with the next cute girl to come along and the cycle repeats. That might be a little too extended for an already extended story arc though.
I think this is fairly likely. So far Jacob has seemed like the perfect boyfriend material, and perfectly in control of his desires and emotions, and his only negative trait is his people-pleasingness. But as we get to know him better, we might learn new and exciting ways in which he might mess things up. I’m very much looking forward to that.
Wait. I missed Dorothy’s warning. Link???
Don’t have the link, but after Radiah, Dorothy, Jacob and Joyce all had lunch together, Dorothy called Joyce out on trying to take Jacob away from current girlfriend and asked if she wanted a guy already prone to moving on like that. Joyce rebutted that it would just be the once because Love.
I’m definitely shipping Jacob and Joyce, but I really would like to see Jacob break up with Raidah properly before actually getting with Joyce.
Hard Agree! 🙂
Me too, which is why I don’t think it’s gonna happen. Willis will go for the worst possible outcome.
Everyones mad but this is adorable. I guess im just not putting the weight on it i should but i dont even care lol
Nah, I think everyone else is putting way too much weight on it. Acting like they’re out here committing adultery on the table.
The worst thing they’re doing is lying to Harrison, and that’s pretty minor as far as I’m concerned since it’s nothing that actually impacts him. I wouldn’t want to try to count the lies I’ve fed to relatives to keep them happy and off my back.
If Jacob comes out of this believing he would actually be happier with Joyce, he’s the kind of guy to break it off officially before doing anything serious with another girl.
Do you think Raidah would be cool with this if she found out? If not then this hurts her too.
It’s the kind of thing that it really depends on who tells her and how. Does she have a sitcom situation where she sees them apparently all cuddled up and freaks?
Or is Jacob like “Yo, Raidah, you missed the funniest shit earlier. Joyce pretended to be my girlfriend and we totally strung my brother along all lunch. You should have seen his face.”
Jacob isn’t being honest in that scenario (though frankly I still don’t think she’d be cool with it). The truth of the matter is that Jacob went along with this because he decided his brother would be more impressed with Joyce then with her. If Jacob confessed that to Raidah how do you think she’d respond?
See, I’m not sure that’s entirely accurate either. I think Jacob originally went along with it because Harrison was happy, and he didn’t want to make him unhappy, or to hurt Joyce. The relative merits of Joyce and Raidah weren’t thought of until much later when they got to the restaurant. Like Joyce he’s been propelled forward by not wanting to make waves by overturning the original lie that Joyce clearly didn’t consider very rationally.
The situation here is very complicated, and no matter how you spin it to Raidah it will leave something out. I just think it’s uncomfortable how most of the comments here continuously take the most negative spin possible. It just feels so bitter and pointlessly angry.
Agreed.
At the most, both Joyce and Jacob should feel moderately guilty for how their now-in-the-open interest in one another is going to hurt Raidah.
And if the commentors were saying THAT, then I wouldn’t be bothered.
It is the level of vitriol being leveled that I personally find disturbing. Seems like people would benefit from chilling out a bit.
You mean you’re not up for the party to stone them when Jacob and Joyce come out of the restaurant that Mike is putting together?
I also think the comments are going overboard with acting like this is cheating and horrid and etc.
But I would SO join that party
Because I’m sure Mike would give out prizes for who gets the most points
Mike *is* helpful that way.
100% agree with Bunny and Maddock!
You peeps put into words my feelings exactley!
This date was also shown to be a big deal to Raidah. Something like “Only one chance to make a first impression.” A first impression Joyce a romantic rival she’s very aware of just stole. Even the best case scenario Raidah doesn’t laugh this off. Jacob’s attracted to another woman. Unless Raidah okay with that this could ruin their relationship.
What relationship?
Don’t know actually. All Jacob and Raidah seem to do is walk around together. Have we even seen them kiss? I think that’s mostly because Raidah’s a side character though. She doesn’t get much panel time to develop her character beyond being an antagonist.
It doesn’t really matter whether they actually do something for it to be a relationship. If they consider it a relationship, then it is.
It doesn’t automatically imply that they couldn’t have better ones. Jacob would indeed probably be happier with Joyce. Still, right now what he’s doin is shady, and he should put it to right ASAP.
@sirksome: I would like to congratulate you on actually managing to have the worse take on this situation so far, and you had pretty steep competition. There are people who are averse (sometimes extremely) to actions that society at large considers required to a relationship, but as long as those people agree they are in a relationship, they are.
A trophy for you.
@JBento Sorry for implying Raidah relationship with Jacob is only valid if she shows public and conventional romantic interest in him. That was not what I meant to say and was worded incorrectly on my part based on my own personal biases. What I meant to communicate in response to Clif’s comment “what relationship” is that Raidah hasn’t had any time to establish what her relationship is with Jacob beyond the more public and shallow parts we’ve seen through the lens of other characters. We don’t even know why she likes him beyond his looks! I’ve actually been one of the people noting that Raidah will take this badly because she cares about her relationship with Jacob instead of dismissing it because Joyce and Jacob are cute together and I don’t even like Raidah! But hey! Thanks for the award! I don’t often win things. If this is still a bad take then we will have to agree to disagree.
Ah, I misunderstood your point then. Apologies.
You can keep the trophy, it’s made of empty Coke bottles anyway.
This is hitting very close to home for me. I had a fiance that was a generally flirty guy and the final straw that made the relationship fall to pieces was a flirty exchange he had with a friend of ours, where it got revealed that she did want him.
Yes, he’s not fucking Joyce right at the table, but you can cheat on a relationship in ways that dont include your genitalia. He’s playing along with a fake date with a woman he for a fact now knows wants him.
Agreed!!
I know them pretending to be in a relationship when Jacob is still with Raidah is screwed up, but I still can’t help but ship them like FedEx.
A sham? Wow.
Heyooo!
YIKES on BIKES
GET ON WITH IT!
I know they look cute as a potential couple, but these two need to be more honest!
To be fair, almost everyone in this comic needs to be more honest. Exceptions would be Dina who is already almost 100% honest and Malaya, who just is a mean person.
See guys, this isn’t going to get interrupted or go wrong or anything. Everything will go well only know they’ve moved from vaguely flirting with each other to having sampled being a couple and will now be hyper aware of each other all the time. Thing are going to get awkward.
They do not appear to be leaving sufficient room for Jesus.
You’re killing me. But so is Jacob’s face in the last panel.
Unless this is a picture of a Madonna with child, Joseph-Jacob protecting his family.
Leaving room for Jesus is not required when snuggling a baby.
Honestly I think this is the most physical contact we’ve seen Joyce have with a straight male that isn’t related to her. Babies really do havr a major power over her.
Do you mean Jacob or Jaime? Because making assumptions about a baby’s sexuality seems kinda ooky to me…
Seemed obvious to me they meant Jacob.
I’m not sure it’s completely Jaime’s fault either. Jacob cuddles have their own attraction.
Cute <3
Jacob and Joyce are being entirely too sassy here, I can barely contain myself.
I find this to be absolutely adorable.
And for everyone who is cheering this on, imagine the roles were reversed and Jacob was doing this to Joyce by pretending he was with Raidah.
Guarandamntee y’all would not be as supportive
You assume that the behavior and its merits in a vacuum are all that matters.
Raidah has shown little to no interest in Jacob as a human being – only as a tool. And he the same for her. Their relationship is cold and sterile.
Joyce, meanwhile, has taken a keen interest in who Jacob is and she cares about that person.
So there is a reason I, for one, am cheering this on while I would not cheer on the reverse.
THANK you! It’s refreshing to see other sanity out there.
Couldn’t have said it better myself!
I don’t know if Jacob and Raidah are good for each other in the long run, but man, ‘cold and sterile’ would be stretching it. I don’t think they wouldn’t have gotten together in the first place if they didn’t have some chemistry.
Checklist. That is all.
He could have just as easily dated Sarah or any other pre-law student.
I mean maybe this is me being a little optimistic but if Raidah was that repulsive to him then I’d like to think that Jacob would have walked away.
Sarah the woman who is deeply attracted to Jacob and shows signs of respect for him and has never once undermined his confidence or implied she’s mostly with him for his connections?
Step up, there.
Sarah is also not ready to make friends and is mostly interested in “dating” him to fuck. It does not make her a bad person but it means she is currently a bad person to date him. The only reason why she might someday in the future be in a position to date him is that realizing he wanted something different than she wanted she took herself out of the race.
You are coloring this entirely through the lens of Raidah as not a main character. She’s not in focus so we don’t see her and Jacob’s relationship as a function of those two dating.
Raidah has opposed Sarah, therefore she must be bad! We always follow Joyce and we’ve seen her grow so we’re supposed to like her more.
The MCs get away with so much shit in the series until they do something far and away off color and I’m sick of it. Yall are still mad at Rachel for standing her ground against Ruth because you’ve only seen what Ruth is doing to improve but not what she did to hurt Rachel. This is the same.
Also because her comments hurt quite a few other people in the room (e.g. Amber, Joyce, Billie… Heck, potentially everybody who has ever screwed up and then worked to overcome the reasons behind that – because if redemption isn’t real their efforts are meaningless, they are the sum of their flaws with no light…)
Which is entirely on the writer if that’s not the impression they mean to convey.
We’ve seen enough of Raidah that the negative impressions are justified. We haven’t been shown much good to counter that. That’s either intentional characterization or bad writing. I’ve got my suspicions as to which. 🙂
Of course, I don’t have to like Raidah to dislike what Joyce has been doing in this plot arc.
Wow, I have been struggling to figure out what I think of Raidah and Jacob, and you nailed it, that is pretty much exactly how I think of them, thank you.
Well, I guess we’ll find out who cheers when Jacob flirts with the next cute girl.
Yeah. Because I don’t like Raidah. I’m playing favourites, and I’m aware of it.
So… Here comes the actual GF right?
This is the ideal moment for Raidah to make an appearance, yes. What happens then is how good a handle she has on her temper and insecurities.
I’m not sure that judging her “temper and insecurities” is really a good look for someone who walks in her boyfriend cuddling a girl she knows is trying to take him away.
Actually they’re excellent criteria.
If Raidah is calm, withering in her scorn and doesn’t give Joyce an inch of wiggle room because she’s factual in all her statements, she not only wins but I doubt Joyce would ever dare show her face around Jacob again. If she starts screaming, shouting, threatening and, most terribly, makes Jamie cry, then Harrison will characterise her as a ‘psycho stalker ex’ and that will be the end of her relationship with Jacob because Jacob would never want to have anything to do with her again, setting aside whether he’d dare to have a GF that has irked his idolised older brother.
Sure, she could go over the top, but if she’s upset about it, that’s normal, not a horrible character flaw.
Uh … just a reminder, Joyce, that there’s more to having a baby than just saying “I want one”. It’s not like going to the animal shelter and picking out a puppy.
Isn’t it?
Someone’s been picking out a puppy wrong.
Just ask Galasso, I’m sure he has a stash of babies in stock. Or thinks he does.
Kind of. If you’re willing to take a non white baby with health problems then adoption can be a lot simpler and yeah yiu can sort of custom order them.
Especially if you’re open to fostering instead of adopting, so if yiu only want babies you can just keep giving them back to the birth parents and always have a baby. (Im oversimplifying!) Although Joyce won’t be eligible for either as a dorm living college student.
Becky actually might qualify to foster, funnily enough.
Yea puppies are a lot easier to adopt than babies.
Big Sisters, Joyce. You have a super awesome big sister.
She might mean Jacob’s brother, and also, I don’t think she knows about Jocelyne yet. (Really hoping that’s the correct name, because I’m too lazy to go check.)
That wraps it up nicely.
Jacob and Joyce got to play house with each other and test the water for a real relationship.
Harison got to hang out with his brother and meet a hero.
Jaime got Joyce cuddles.
all is well that ends well. I’m sure I didn’t forget anyone involved in this situation. I’m sure Jacob didn’t either.
Raidah loses her project to have an academically and physically superior trophy husband with a well connected lawyer brother, on her path to her vision of her perfect future as a lawyer lobbyist or whatever. Which is all JAcob is to her, I’m pretty sure. I think Jacob senses this on some level which could explain why he is so ambivalent about her. And why Harrison doesn’t even know enough about her to know Joyce isn’t her.
If I believed Raidah cared deeply about Jacob and he her, I would agree with pro-Raidah sentiment too. But I don’t. This whole situation would be impossible if that were true.
I agree with Shane. Who gives the south end of a rat what Raidah thinks or wants? And as for all these calls for honesty and discovering the truth, we never discover “the truth” about most of the people we know. When you see a sibling or close friend get married, how often do you really know whether they’re right for each other? If your sister-in-law tells you how much she loves your brother, do you really know she’ll never cheat, divorce him, take the kids and the house? If your best friend tells you her b/f is the most loving man in the world, will you be surprised to find that he’s abusing her? Finally, when someone tells you the relationship just isn’t working out, do you ever really know the reason? People often lie in such situations, either because they don’t want to hurt anyone, or because they want to avoid drama, or simply because they figure no one deserves to know their innermost thoughts.
Who gives the south end of a rat?
We never discover the truth.
Eat at arby’s
One grudging Internet.
But I d’ont see how that’s relevant. The point is not that he should stay with Raidah, the point is that even if their relationship is one of convenience, she’s her girlfriend, and breaking up properly (or alternatively not ‘dating’ other girls without permission) is the decent thing to do.
Now, he’s been caught up in the situation and hasn’t really had time to pause, so while what he’s doing is not cool, that doesn’t make him a monster. But if he wants to keep his good guy status he’ll have to come clean the second Harrisson leaves.
Yeah, the point her isn’t so much whether Raidah is good or bad or even whether their relationship is good or bad, it’s always been about Joyce’s behavior and now more and more Jacob’s behavior.
You can be doing a bad thing even if the person hurt by it is an asshole.
“Which is all JAcob is to her, I’m pretty sure.”
It’s super-cool how much people are willing to justify cheating and violation of consent just because the people doing the cheating are more familiar to them than the victim.
Clearly the ex-girlfriend was just a frigid bongo and deserved to be cheated on.
Everything goes well, they go their separate ways, jacob meets raidah and needs to force a second lunch into himself after telling her Harrison had to cancel but raidah still wants to go and eat something
Radiah: “I’m starving, let’s order a large pizza.”
Episode ends on zoom-in of Jacob’s pained expression. Laugh track. End credits. Next episode doesn’t mention the episode
#Dumbing of age as an 80ths sitcom
Pff, as if Jacob wouldn’t be ALL OVER THAT PIZZA.
Team Jacob/Pizza!
Though considering Jacob’s recent behavior, I’m not sure I can ship them any more. Pizza’s too good for him.
What if it’s REALLY BAD PIZ- HAHAHAHAHA.
*wipes tears*
Man, I almost managed to get through with implying there’s such a thing as bad pizza with a straight face.
Well done.
Joyce has narrowly been interupted from ordering pizza with “everything” and pizza full of pickles, so I dare say we were close to find out.
Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!
No, seriously, that is the last panel. Is there an art historian in the house? I’m wondering if the composition is based on some actual painting.
If so, I wonder what Jospeh is looking at offscreen. Probably the three camels bursting through the door.
Google “Mary+triangle smile” to find out.
Probably the unlikely angel with the bow and arrow.
So, now’s the perfect time for Jaime to drop a deuce. If Joyce can handle that, she’s good.
I have said it before, I’ll say it agan.
Baby-barf on Joyce before this storyline is over.
Oh, please.
Kind of seeming like Jacob was feeling out if this was a relationship he wanted to pursue.
Although he didn’t realise that until this moment.
FWIW, it’s a bit too quick a realisation to be entirely trustworthy.
There is a very real possibility, I think, of Raidah walking in and having a ‘have I missed something?’ moment. I mean, just look at Jacob, Joyce and Jamie: Don’t they look like an actual family? I’m pretty sure that Raidah’s sense of reality would be strong enough to resist it but there would be a significant temptation to look at that and convince yourself that you’ve somehow skipped a year and a marriage!
You know, Raidah doesn’t actually need to drop in on this for there to be consequences.
She just needs to meet Jacob again. I don’t think he’s the kind of guy who’s gonna be able to keep this kinda thing under his hat long term, especially if he’s starting to compare Joyce and Raidah in his head; and there’s no way that’ll end clean.
This is unrelated to the comic (le gasp!), but I’m too excited to not talk about it.
I’ve recently taken up tabletop miniature painting as a hobby (chances are you’re looking at my latest work, if you can see my grav) and it’s super satisfying. My D&D group meets up at one of the game shops downtown, and I’ve gotten a few compliments on my paint jobs during sessions. The other night, the shop owner asked if I’d like to paint an owlbear mini he’d just bought to use in the store, and I agreed. When I brought it back in to drop off for him, I got more compliments than usual, which honestly felt really good.
Well, tonight when I showed up for the game, the shop owner asked me to come back to one of the tables, head a surprise I should see. Out comes three shopping bags, full of miniatures. Apparently, the co-owner just buys a lot of unpainted minis for the store, and he saw my owlbear and wants to know if I take commissions. Obviously, I’m extremely interested, so I’m gonna take up that offer. My work, on display and used to enhance people’s campaigns? Hell yes.
What I’m not 100% sure on is the price. I figure a few bucks each, but the exact amount is foggy. Materials + time seems like a good start, but I’m not super experienced yet, so that feels like an important factor. I also don’t want to go too high and scare them off before we even make a deal. The sizes range from teeny goblins to actual dragons, so a flat rate might work against me? Basically, I’m asking if anyone can help point me in the right direction.
Find out what he’s offering and then decide whether it’s worth your time. That way you won’t undervalue yourself.
Yeah with that much size variety, a flat rate won’t work out in anyone’s favor. Small figures might end up too expensive, and you’d take an opportunity cost loss on larger or more intricate ones.
Is the shop’s main intent to resell, or keep them at the store for tabletop groups to borrow? That can affect how much they’re willing to pay.
Maybe start by painting up a few of different sizes. Keep track of the time you put into them. Then you can present these to the store owners as a sampler, and you can see what they’re prepared to offer you.
Of course, the satisfaction you’ll get from this is priceless, so weigh that against monetary gain.
Not a bad plan, but since the co-owner brought it up and asked about commissions, I personally would ask what he had in mind.
I double-checked, and the answer seems to be “Whatever you think is reasonable, as long as it’s not too high.”
How long do the figures take to do, and what do you think a fair hourly rate would be? Naturally, larger or more intricate figures would take more time and therefore cost more. If you can categorize them into a few rough piles by how long they’ll take to do, you can work out how much each kind will cost on average. (Keep it to no more than 3 categories if you can, just to keep things simple.)
Each one takes me a few hours, start to finish. Depending on size and detail, it’s about 2-6 hours. I apply really light layers and dry them thoroughly in between, so that time is spaced out over the course of the day. For paid work, I would want to be even more precise, so that might get jacked up an hour or two.
I know a bunch of people who take commissions for painting minis (mostly for Warhammer), I’ll ask them. I can tell you right off the bat that a flat rate is a terrible idea. Size and miniature detail are more important, plus how many of that type are you painting (though that mostly applies to wargaming – when they paint a unit of 50 models that are mostly all the same with few details, the price isn’t 50x one mini)
In the complete absence of any information about what it would cost him to have someone else do them AND given this is something you would enjoy anyway, estimate how much time this would take you in hours, add a little extra for error, and then charge minimum wage rate. There is no way you should get less than whatever minimum wage is in your area and that gives him the best deal he should be able to get.
Um. Minimum wage + expenses should be the floor. I was forgetting paint costs.
Here, minimum wage is $7.25, and paint cost would add about $3, with m normal brand (Vallejo). So, maybe $10-11 for Medium-sized figures, scaling upward to about $30-35 for the bigger dragons/dinosaurs? That seems not so bad for either side.
Aah that’s really cool!! No idea about the pricing but one thing that I’ve read for jewellery making is that if “but I’m inexperienced and largely a hobbyist”-makers barely charge more than their materials, pros and semipros end up looking crazy-expensive when they price their pieces accurately taking their time into account. So don’t automatically devalue your work or time!
You can always say I’ve done some research and I think $X for this size, $Y for this size would be about right – does that sound reasonable to you?” and go from there. If he says it’s a lot more than he was thinking you can always offer to double-check your maths, or ask him again (now some figures have been floated) what sort of range was he thinking about, and say you can do the sums to see if you can work with that.
I would look at three numbers as a starting point. What the expenses are, and what pays you minimum wage plus expenses, and what pays you your current wage plus expenses. Another thing is expenses might change based on what quality of paint you use and thats something you can discuss with him. Now remember often times activities you do for fun are not as fun once you have a deadline and quota, or once you have to do them a certain amount of time.
If your going to do it seriously I would start with your current wage or higher and let him make a counter offer, don’t go below minimum wage.
I define doing it not seriously as the first question you ask yourself when taking on a job is do I feel like doing this right now even if I don’t get paid.
If you can’t get a price that’s appealing to you. I believe for a small amount it might just be fun to not have to pay money to do your hobby and any take home is bonus. You can offer to do a limited amount when you feel like it at a price below minimum wage.
I like this as a sort of in-between. Charge a little less for models I just feel like painting at my own leisure, and normal rate for the normal setup.
I would love to get some commissions done on this kind of thing if you have a link!
Lots of reactions:
Yup, at this point Jacob wants Joyce more than he wants Raidah. Don’t know exactly what he or Raidah will do about that, but I don’t see them staying together very much longer.
Amazing symphony of Joyce-faces here.
All the people two strips ago who want Joyce to have some kind of character growth (usually stemming from “punishment”) because her arc demands it: I don’t think it’s quite that kind of strip. Joyce is based on a real-life person. In real life, people don’t always receive the lesson that others think they deserve.
Joyce is handling this very intelligently, setting up an opening for Jacob to let Harrison down gently without making Joyce look too bad. I’m rather impressed; I didn’t think she had so much social judo.
By the way, three or four strips ago, when Joyce was all, “I’m going to go nope from your life forever, but gee this has been fun, hasn’t it?” Was I the only person who thought that was a tad manipulative?
Oh wow, I just realized. Joyce has been raised in an extremely manipulative environment which kept her naive and sheltered. It’s easy to assume that means she has no social skill. But in fact, she’s probably absorbed a whole lot of manipulative techniques, deeply enough that she may use them without even being aware of them.
So, perhaps this arc is not about “Joyce tries a stupid invasive thing, gets shot down, and learns a lesson.” Perhaps it’s about “Joyce is discovering powers she never knew she had.” Are those powers good? No. Are they bad? Sometimes. Do they require an instant consequence, either narratively or in real life? NO.
Joyce isn’t a perfect 1 to 1 with Willis. He’s talked about how he and Joyce are different in a lot of ways before (Joyce is more social, Joyce is generally nicer than he was at this point, etc.) Regardless, this isn’t real life and in fiction, it’s not very satisfying if one of the main characters main flaws never has any consequences for it – sometimes that’s the point but I don’t think that’s what Willis is going for here.
It doesn’t need to be instant, but Joyce being terrible about other people’s boundaries is something that’s been driving me nuts for years. Sue me for hoping this arc would be when it was addressed.
I’m not going to sue you for hoping Joyce improves. There’s a big difference between “Joyce annoys me and I hope she improves soon” and “Joyce is being a terrible person and I’m going to hate this arc unless she’s properly punished.”
And yeah, I didn’t think she was 1:1 with Willis. Just that she’s “based on a true story” rather than “constructed from scratch to fit the story.”
Didn’t Joyce get choked by Sal at one point? That’s a consequence. And she could probably have more friends if she were better at boundaries. Maybe it’s that I like fiction more the more realistic it is. Realistic according to its own universe’s rules, of course – I have no problem with fantasy and SF, as long as its universe is well designed and it doesn’t break its own rules. But I want people to act like people, not like pawns in a narrative arc. (Maybe that’s why I never really got into the Greek classics.)
It would be nice if, in real life, everyone got appropriate comeuppance for their character flaws. …No it wouldn’t, it would be horrible. It would be nice if everyone except me got comeuppance for their flaws.
But in any case, that’s not how the world works. It’s how we like to tell little kids the world works (and I’m constantly searching for something wiser to tell my kids, that will prepare them better to be real-world adults).
Many people do like Greek classics, and I’m not at all saying they’re wrong. And I don’t know whether this comic is going to be more along the lines of “Willis makes sure people get what they deserve” or more like “the characters tell Willis how they will react and so the story unfolds.” I kind of hope it’s the latter. Sounds like you prefer the former, and I’m not saying you’re wrong.
The problem is that a lot of Joyce’s ‘consequences’ are played for comedy, or very, very quickly resolved.
Yes, she learns – she’s less idolistic of Sal, she’s better about gay people, etc. But a lot of times, these lessons are less as consequence of her own actions, but more about others. Joyce defended Dorothy because Carol is terrible. She jumped to save Becky because Toedad is well, Toedad. She decides to be better about Sal partly because of Sal’s own issues with being stereotyped.
Many of Joyce’s continued problems – forcibly trying to bring people together, disrespecting boundaries, a continued denial of anything scientific – are often just blatantly ignored when called out on, or seemingly resolved with no consequence or remorse. And as one of the main characters of a comic which is mostly grounded in reality, that’s very frustrating to keep seeing.
I don’t think she should be punished, or anything. But if Dorothy or Sarah or Joe directly call her out on her behaviour and try to address it, I’d like for her to actually listen, for once.
It’s not even necessarily “properly punished”? How about “not rewarded by the crappy behavior working”?
I mean comic exaggerations aside, the punishment most of us are looking for is “Jacob is mad at her for messing with his relationship”. That’s not really that cruel.
@thejeff Anyone raising their voice to Joyce is a sin in the comments section.
To the conventionally attractive white christian girl? Heavens forbid!
(see also: Roz’s fate)
You mean Mary? Also a conventionally attractive white girl who isn’t particularly liked. 🙂
I won’t say that’s not a factor, but it’s not that reductive.
Still love when Agatha and Sierra offered to pray with her.
I’m not saying this is necessarily unrealistic – you’re right, realistically, people don’t always have consequences for crappy things that they do. Liking realistic fiction is fine – BUT in real life, people aren’t happy when other people don’t have consequences for doing crappy things. I don’t see why my reaction should be different because it’s fictional. I like A Song of Ice and Fire, which is the style of storytelling you like. Tywin didn’t have any consequences for ordering the murder of innocent children and Elia Martell. I like Tywin. He’s a good character. It still bothers me nothing happened to him for having Elia and her kids killed.
Joyce learned absolute jack from Sal choking her. She learned a little bit from Sal screaming at her a couple times, which I am proud of Joyce for. However, this is still a big part of her arc and it still annoys me. I am going to hate this arc if it ends up all working out for her, the same way I’d hate it if it worked out for her IRL, however, I’m not convinced that it will – even if she and Jacob hook up, I don’t think her friends will be as happy for her as she wants them to be (Dorothy comes to mind) and I think it’s also possible thejeff is right about Jacob will end up flirty with the next cute girl.
Am I the only one who thinks that, underneath the obvious flirting, Joyce is actually setting up an easy out for this whole panicked-and-implied-a-relationship mess? Because now “oh haha funny funny we WERE actually just kidding about the relationship because baby” is actually on the table and they can both gracefully slide out of pretending to be dating
Seems pretty clear that she’s doing exactly that.
And Jacob isn’t exactly enthusiastic about taking her up on it.
At one level, when she lied about being his girlfriend, she took away control that he should have had. Now she’s giving him the control back. He can do what he wants… which means he has to decide and choose what he wants to do… and he’s realizing that he actually wants to be with Joyce.
Actually Jacob set it up: “Just wanted to use me to get to this baby, right?”
Even in context I think it’s pretty clear that the “out” is banter. It would be weird if Joyce at this moment said “Yup!” and handed Jaime back and left.
Wow you people take this stuff way too seriously. You act as if these two are real and they’re committing a heinous crime. Jeez.
People really seem to forget that this series started with one of them dating a homosexual guy thinking they could change them, as well as hired a known misanthrope to punch her date every time he looked at another woman.
They also seem to forget that in another universe, one of them was ALOT worse than even this and still got better, and the other was an open nymphomaniac trying to recover but failing, and would sleep with anyone regardless of who they were related too. These two are SAINTS compared to their other versions.
I mean, bah god?! I watch these comments sections looking for funny bits and yet all I see is people calling these two garbage for acting like human beings and making stupid decisions in a series called DUMBING OF AGE.
And remember. I call myself the DemonChickenOfDoom, and named myself after a character from a Fanfic that acts like a lunatic and has a rivalry with the freaking floor. And yet somehow even THAT is more sane than all this.
In this universe, Jacob doesn’t know he’s a sexual addict because he’s never had sex. Mike doesn’t know what he’s like when he’s drunk because he’s never been drunk. Good times ahead.
It’s never been stated that Jacob is a virgin, or that Mike has never drunk.
I thought he was sex addict in this universe because he didn’t want to have sex and sexualities remain constant, and I’m of the opinion that means more than gender preference. But Willis said that if that’s something he’s still prone to in this universe it hasn’t happened yet. Mike being a happy drunk might not be a thing in this universe
Yep, I’m making baseless predictions based on my head cannon. Gives me something to look forward to.
I’m glad you’re enjoying this storyline, but that doesn’t entitle you to a positive reaction from others, no more than me not enjoying a storyline makes me entitled to have no one else like it.
And sure, the story’s about bad decisions and other verses have been worse. That doesn’t mean this plot line in this verse can’t be extremely aggravating for some of us and we’re allowed to talk about that.
Whaddaya mean, “you people”???
So…what are the odds that Raidah, Joyce and Jacob can talk this out like adults and wind up in a relatively drama-free threesome?
I don’t expect that to happen, but I’d love to see Sarah’s reaction.
Close to zero, if only because I don’t think that Raidah shares her toys.
I doubt that’s in Joyce’s vision of romance either. None of those Christian rom-com specials had poly relationships.
I hope they drop the facade before Raidah/Sarah/Mike/The Cheese comes and rips away the curtain. I dunno if I can handle that much cringe and second hand shame
It’s okay. Jacob has a plan. He’ll just excuse himself to go to the men’s room and never come out.
Joyce tried to do something like that. Twice. If she isn’t allowed, why is he?
Jacob is a grown man. He said so himself.
He’s no more allowed than she is. Doesn’t mean it isn’t his plan.
Waiting for Raidah to walk in.
This is exhausting.
I think I’m done with the comment section for a while, because I’m about one more post calling people puritans for thinking Jacob and Joyce are being shitty away from getting myself banned.
If any of you need me, I’m on Patreon. Posting this here so you know I’m not sick or whatever.
I think I’m going to do this too. I don’t have the mental or emotional energy to deal with people constantly referring to me as puritanical or unreasonable because I’m not completely on board with this (seriously, Jacob, just break up with Raidah and put an end to all this shenanigans).
At this point, what’s bothering me is not the plotline itself but the commenters’ reactions to other people’s reactions. Like I said yesterday, my issue is purely with the behaviour of two fictional characters while other commenters seems to take issue with the opinions of real people and judge said real people accordingly.
Pretty much this.
This is made worse by the fact that it’s stretching out foreeeeeeveeeeeerrrrrrrrr. It’s like the Superior Spider-Man storyline, which could’ve benefited from being cut down to at least 3/4 length, except that was better because nobody was going “Doc Ock is in the right.”
(I mean, there was probably one person saying “Doc Ock is in the right”, because you know there’s always THAT ONE MOFO)
Well, yes, there was that one mofo. His name was Dr. Otto Octavius.
Look, JBento, Doc Ock’s entitled to have an online account like everyone else.
I hope this isn’t causing you actual “even away from the computer” stress?
Jacob and Joyce are not considering Raidah’s existence very much. It’s pretty sucky. They’re cute together but the potential for it to backfire in their faces is quite high (or e.g. for it to turn out that Jacob is a serial flirt and bad at commitment, and this to dial up Joyce’s neuroses to “supernova”) – it isn’t a good way to start a relationship.
My now-husband and I lost a friend when we got together coz he was pissed off on behalf of my husband’s ex (a mutual friend) – who had definitely moved in with the guy she was seeing after him by then, and I believe they got engaged around the time we got together (which was about 2 years after she and my husband split up)… I talked to her about it to make sure she was OK with it. We’re still friends. But sometimes other people take sides even when nobody is asking them to.
I can’t see Joe, for one, being happy about them getting together like this (especially as a large part of his “casual flings only” attitude stems from having seen his mother being hurt by his father cheating on her). Dorothy will probably also have a few choice words, although she may take it less personally and be able to get past it with time…
No more stress than any other internet comment saying things that avoids me. Like, 5 minutes max. But there were a lot and so I decided to peace out for a coulee days. I’m back now.
I appreciate knowing you’re okay. Thank you for being considerate above and beyond.
<3
Unfortunately, there was that shrieking shitheel I got into it with over this very strip on Patreon, so there’s not really any escaping this.
Must’ve missed that. I’m okay with missing that.
Curse you willis, what a beautiful tableau of what could be/have been 🙁
They are lovely and seem so happy together. Too much happy… I fear some disaster now.
I realized that a lot of my favorite fictional characters got good results from evil and or stupid decisions but usually not the results they were looking for at the time. Of course the ones that pop to my head the show was blatent about them being the villiens at the time.
Jessie, James, Meowth, (each other) 626, Jumba,(Ohana) Mewtwo(his clone children).
At least she admits it.
Kinda.
Just break up with your girlfriend Jacob. You’re not married.
Hey I know we’re all about this relationship drama but moment of appreciation for Jacob, who takes the conversation away from the kidnapping in panel 4 because Joyce is uncomfortable, good man.
I think I see why Jacob had problems with “clingy” and “jealous” ex-girlfriends in the past.
Well Jacob I’m a little conflicted now.
And now that physical contact has been made. Raidah is gona be there next page
Framing the truth as a joke does not count as telling the truth.
If Gwenpool has taught me anything, you are either a main character or you’re in danger of being written out of the story. Raidah is not a main character, she is a plot device. Her instrumental approach to Jacob dooms her as anything other than a potential villain. She might have 4-5 days left before we never see her again, unless she becomes a nemesis. But even they have limited appearances (Sydney Yuss).
Jaime is a plot device, giving Joyce an entry point into the lunch and now a possible exit line. By tomorrow (comic time) he’ll be gone and might never be seen again.
Joyce is acting to maintain her place as focus of the story, ensuring her continued prominence.
Yes, Gwenpool has ruined narrative structure for me.
Yea but as the main character more often than not bad things keep happening to you and or your friends otherwise there is no story.
Well, sometimes it takes temporary insanity and a train wreck to get two people together. To make this perfect, now would be a good time for Raidah to enter the scene.
No, no. Sarah has to be there first. It’s her birthday.
When Raidah comes in, will she be facing the right way to see Sarah’s gloat face this time? If not… birthday wishes don’t come true.
so its sort of ha ha ha we were joking? i just wanted to hold the baby …..
Jaime now has a speaking part. So the voice actor must be paid union scale.
This dream sequence has not shown us Harrison’s wife. Or what she might think. As a main character, Joyce may abduct other people’s babies — as long as they are part of the Hero’s Journey.
I used ctrl+f and it turns out noone has written “Joshua” or “Jocelyne” yet. Joyce isn’t only talking about Harrison when she says “super awesome big brothers”, she’s also talking about her own big brother who’s actually a big sister.
Your ctrl+f game is too weak. You forgot to include “sister”, and that’s why you’ll never be the emperor.
Well that deescalated quickly
“Relationships” started in logic (not animal magnetism) are likely to end in the same way – calculatedly, and without heartbreak. Raidah will show up, be grossed out by baby poop and/or barf – or maybe she’s just uncomfortable around kids – and Jacob, having seen the thing he actually wants in Joyce (a women you want, lovingly holding a baby is irresistible), will end it with Raidah and start behaving like a (hu)man and get it together with Joyce.