I am starting to have a sneaking suspicion that Ruth and Rachel’s freshman year at least superficially resembled Ruth and Billie’s arc toward the start of their relationship… Ruth being an escalating jerk toward Rachel, Rachel getting a glimpse of Ruth’s more vulnerable side, perhaps even Rachel developing some feelings for Ruth… Except Ruth did something to really hurt Rachel, maybe not even realizing, or maybe on purpose to push Rachel away but far more effective than she’d intended.
Alternately, it resembled Joyce and Sarah’s relationship. Ruth just wanted to be left alone to read her books and watch her team not win Stanley Cups, but Rachel kept bugging Ruth until she went off. Rachel is now ignoring, downplaying, or straight up forgetting her part in things.
I had a co-worker who forgot the name of those cookies and said she loved eating Minions. When I was confused about what she meant she said “You know, the ones shaped like this” and drew in the air. Milanos are shaped exactly like Minions, so as you can imagine this did not help clear up the confusion.
I’ve always found Pepperidge Farm to be fairly gross [and craaaazy overpriced for what they offer] but, then, I also grew up on European chocolates and cookies and cakes and whatnot. Compared to other American desserts, Pepperidge Farm probably isn’t all that bad.
I’d definitely recommend people go to a World Market or the like and try some international desserts before settling with Pepperidge Farm but, well, if they legitimately like it even after comparing to others, then there’s nothing wrong with that. (Side note, due to how overpriced PF is, imported cookies can at times actually be a cheaper option.)
To the contrary, basically every typical grocery store seems to carry a full selection of Pepperidge Farm cookies, so it’s a pretty ideal setup for those who enjoy them.
Of course, the poster above only stated that they needed willpower to resist eating them, not that they particularily appreciated them. And that’s a totally different thing- I mean, I’m living next door to a Sonic, and I’m regularly compelled to buy their shakes just because they’re always there, reminding me that I could have them if I only was willing.
That’s not to say that Sonic is at all able to compare to better ice cream brands, just that it’s a familiar, comfortable flavor that pressures its way into my mind with its ready convenience. Nevermind that, going off my experience of the town surrounding Bluebell [ice cream]’s factory, the local town likely shoves Pepperidge Farm stuff in your face at every corner.
So yeah, I could totally see myself grabbing some Pepperidge Farm if they were shoving themselves in my face regularly, even despite finding every single component of any of their cookies to be subpar. I mean, when you gotta have a cookie (or ice cream), you gotta have one, y’know? And it’s not like you can count on there being quality offerings available, nevermind at a decent price or convenient location.
The without-doubt best thing I ever found at that store was Vosges chocolate, $4 for the 3.5 oz bar. Again, incredible restraint to just buy a few, and also to share them with my wife.
I don’t know long it took me to realize that song is really about Margaret. Every time I hear it, I think of my mom spending her “retirement” years being a full-time caregiver for my dad, the literal love of her life.
I oddly cant remember the last time I heard music in an elevator. Many of them today either have nothing at all or little video screens playing a news channel.
I get my lame-music-jollies now from the cable Music Choice “Easy Listening” channel. And recently heard Enya playing in the examination room when I went in for a colonoscopy. I wonder if she knows what her music is being used for?
All doesn’t have to be forgiven but you definitely also don’t have to keep fucking with them. Rachel goes out of her way to bother Ruth and that’s shitty
It would be better if Rachel just didn’t interact with Ruth or had switched halls. Not purposely drag her down every time she tries to be a better person. Abused can easily become an abuser themselves, you know.
In this case, it is. Ruth has changed and is trying to better herself. She realizes she effed up and can never fix what she did, but she’s trying to do better. Rachel, on the other hand, while supposedly justified in her anger, is now being the abuser, herself, by continually antagonizing Ruth and utterly disregarding her attempts to be a better person. Rachel is most assuredly no longer the victim, here, if she, indeed, was in the first place.
As someone who has been in Ruth’s place and Rach’s, I can tell you from experience that Rachel is legitimately sabotaging Ruth’s recovery with her behavior and by trivializing her attempts to be better, and doing so consciously. That is never okay, no matter what she may or may not have done to her in the past.
Panel 3 is an interesting expression, given how she looked more angry in panel 2, or the way she walked out. I’m very interested to see more about what happened between them.
I definitely have memory loss from dealing with my head stuff, so that’s always fun when people ask you about things you should remember but can’t. And by fun I mean disheartening and frustrating, at least from my experience.
It just hit me. She’s from Canada. Her Grandfather is wealthy. Yet, she doesn’t seem to have received any mental health care after the death of her parents. Something ain’t right about that.
There probably wasn’t much of a time gap between her parents dying and her and Howie moving to the States with gramps. And once they were there, he’s an abusive asshole so that likely explains why he didn’t bother to get her proper mental health care.
even if they were in Canada for a long time after the fact, mental health care is Not Cheap here. mental health, dental, optical, prescription drugs still have to be paid for out of pocket. Canada’s health care is ranked third worst in the developed world, just above the US and I believe France.
plus yeah, he’s a major dinkus I doubt he’d care about that sort of thing anyway
Just for any Canadians looking at this who don’t know otherwise and are worrying, SOME mental health care is covered. I can definitely speak for BC and I know friends who have accessed it in Alberta. Also if you don’t have money for psych prescriptions in BC, there’s plan g through pharmacare
Emphasizing ‘some’ because it is not enough for many people (including me), and super lacking for rural people and especially (and intentionally) for indiginous nations, but I do want people to know there are some things that are covered (for sure in BC: mental health emergency hospital visits, appointments with your GP, government mental health facilities (usually [City] Mental Health) for about 8 appointments a year, and often these have connected free programs, eg outpatient group therapy).
This isn’t to argue with you, I just get worried about people doing what I did for years: not bothering to seek it out.
I actually had no idea that existed so I appreciate the info! the only time I was able to get help was when I was 20 and still under my mom’s insurance from work, which I then aged out of a few months later. good thing I don’t actually need it that badly and have been doing pretty well with just meds.
Speaking for the NT, I see a regular counselor for free and have accessed emergency room treatment and in-patient stays which were covered by healthcare. As Axel said, it’s always worth looking into what’s available.
It’s weird how there is not a single report that actually ranks Canada that bad, isn’t it? Depending on the year it can be several steps over America and America consistently comes pretty far down as far as the developed world is concerned.
Canada might not be amazing, but at least someone won’t go into debt thanks to a heart attack.
Grandpa Dickwad moved Ruth and Carla to Indiana before they’d even had time to process their parents’ death. And Grandpa Dickwad pretty clearly believes that mental health care is for wimps, and god forbid that any of his kids grow up to be wimps.
I have no idea how “Carla” wound up there. Can’t even explain it by predictive text.
I was typing furiously because another Battlebots round was about to begin, and I wanted to hit “Post” before it did. I’m guessing Ruth and Carla red-haired their way into a single person in my inattentive state of mind.
Moving them immediately is pretty much what would have to happen, even if Clint was the nicest person in the world. It’s not like they could stay on their own. It adds to the trauma, but what’s the alternative.
The lack of mental health care is certainly on him though. Problems with the US system are basically class based and Clint’s influence suggests he would have easily been able to afford treatment for them.
Also, it cannot be stressed just how much, in the US, even having good health care does not mean that you have good access to mental health care. My current HMO is pretty good overall, but is infamous for the fact that its bean counters have heavily nerfed its mental health services.
The German health care systems covers a lot of therapy, unfortunately they restricted it to a handful of methods (psychoanalysis, behavioral therapy, talk therapy based on deep psycholog, and, wonder of wonders, they have included EMDR). The number of therapists who are accepted by health insurance is limited and this leads to incredible waiting periods.
So a lot of people spend a lot off their income to pay for therapy themselves, because it’s easier to find an opening.
“I relapsed yesterday because my girlfriend thinks she isn’t good enough for me and was trying to push me away for my own good but just wound up hurting the both of us. Also, I’m just trying to do my job right now to celebrate the birthdays of two of the people who live here.”
“…Yeah, well. You suck.”
Man I hope Rachel has a good reason to hate Ruth so much, because at this point she really just reads as super petty. Get a hobby, Rachel. Or just move on. Does hating Ruth with a dying passion really do anything for you? I don’t think Ruth even cares about her opinion at this point, so there’s no point to it. Also, she heckin’ owes Billie an apology for 1) treating her as if she had no agency, 2) potentially putting her in danger had Ruth ACTUALLY been an out and out abuser and 3) acting as if she cares about Billie when she never once lifted a finger to help Billie out or offer her any assistance when she was being supposedly abused.
Some folks not only won’t let things go, they turn holding a grudge into a noble virtue. Its possible that Ruth did something so cruel AND then got away with it, that Rachel feels that she needs to prevent the issue from dying out of a sense of justice. Or, y’know– Rachel could just be a jerk.
I’m hoping we see more backstory of Ruth and Rachel in their freshman year so we can find out why Rachel hates Ruth so much. It better be a damn good reason, because without that backstory right now Rachel’s hate towards Ruth feels very petty to me as well.
Mostly on Point 1) Given that the relationship, from what someone on the floor would have seen, looked really abusive, I can’t really blame Rachel here. It definitely started off abusive and even though that changed when the actual relationship started, they were still fighting in public to cover up the relationship.
For all the real problems with the relationship, it looks a lot worse without the behind the scenes bits we see.
As for 3) finding out it’s a sexual relationship, not just Ruth’s usual bullying makes it a hell of a lot worse and that she wouldn’t have known until after the fact.
Honestly that makes point one worse because somebody doesn’t lose their agency just because they have been abused. When I say ‘Rachel treats her as if she had no agency’ I’m referring to when Rachel said, and I quote, that Ruth got to “keep Billie”. Keep her, as if she were a dog or a toy. That’s gross. Really gross. Especially if she truly thinks Billie’s being abused.
As for point 3, she still did nothing to help someone who was being beaten up and thrown into a couch and every other abusive thing Ruth did to Billie. Just for my own rule of thumb, if you’re not willing to help somebody, you don’t get to champion their cause against their wishes or treat them as if you really care about them. Because Rachel doesn’t care about Billie’s well-being. She just uses her to needle Ruth and call her abusive. Which is gross. And I’m not saying Rachel should have beaten Ruth up because I know that’s scary to do when you think someone is abusive. But she should at least own up to the fact that she did NOTHING to help Billie instead of being a hypocrite and acting as if she cares.
Even the simplest gesture of trying to help Billie up, glaring at Ruth on Billie’s behalf, or slipping her a therapist card like Roz did for Joyce once, any of those things would prove to me that she at least cared for Billie beyond what she can use their relationship to say or demean Ruth with.
That Rachel waited until Ruth’s lowest moment to rip into her sealed it for me. Ruth was a violent awful bully, but she had her grandfather’s specter behind her. Until evidence surfaces that puts Ruth anywhere near her grandfather (I don’t buy it), Rachel can fuck right off. Did she make any complaints to the RA Freshman year? Did she ever go to Puddinghead (who is admittedly incompent as shit)?
I understand this reads a LOT like victim blaming (maaaaaybe is victim blaming), but Rachel has so far visibly done jack and shit to actually address the problem; she just saw that she has the opportunity abuse Ruth back.
I agree with you there. It’s pretty gross to wait until someone’s already down to decide ‘now I can kick her too!’ when there was nothing before. It’s super fucked.
Telling her you remember in a derisive way isn’t going to make her remember and do whatever you want her to do to atone, Rachel.
I feel bad for Ruth, I have several years where my depression was so bad that I don’t remember more than a couple moments in them. There are even tv shows and stuff that I will watch and say to my husband ‘I guess we didn’t watch this season, so it’s not even anything specific like stressful life events that are blocked out (or were perhaps never retained in the first place). Most of the year I got engaged is completely gone.
I don’t blame Rachel that much either, Ruth not remembering doesn’t cancel out whatever she did to Rachel, but I don’t get what she’s trying to accomplish. If it’s to get some sort of reparations, it won’t happen from the vague rudeness that Ruth doesn’t remember causing, and if she just wants to take it out on Ruth, she’s not really doing that efficiently either.
I get the feeling that Rachel does not want Ruth to do anything in particular to atone except be miserable and alone the rest of her life which I’m pretty sure would ultimately make things worse for everyone, or to go away which I think Ruth is not in a good position to do.
At this point in the story I don’t know if Ruth really did anything that bad during that time or if it was just a case of two highly incompatible room mates.
Now I’m thinking about Lapis I have no doubt that she had real reason to hate Jasper, but the decision to turn the tables on Jasper did not exactly make Lapis happy or make Jasper regret her actions.
Honestly the line you will always be what you were before, instead of you past crimes will never go away, kind of makes it sound like Rachel was saying improvement is a story.
As someone who’s dealt with, and is dealing with memory loss due to depression, I really empathize with Ruth here…I have a hazey memory at best of a good 6 years. if you have mental health problems PLEASE get help
Yes, Rachel is being spiteful and passive aggressive, but remember their first meeting: Rachel was open and accepting, and Ruth basically ripped her head off and shat in her lungs—with Rachel’s Mom standing right there. Depression and alcohol might cloud Ruth’s memories, might even have caused much of her bad behavior, but that’s still just an excuse for bad behavior. Maybe Rachel was always hateful, or maybe Ruth just sparked that hateful aspect of Rachel through her free-range nastiness. All that matters now is that Ruth needs to make amends. Even if it gets slapped down, Ruth needs to be the one to bring the olive branch.
That description seems… extreme, no? Sure Ruth was unfriendly and a bit rude, and we’ll probably see more flashbacks where she does worse things, but Ruth wasn’t any worse to Rachel in the last flashback than Sarah is to most of the cast. Grumpily saying you want to be left alone (and even making clear that it’s a YOU thing, not a personal dislike of them) isn’t hateful or abusive.
…Rachel was not clearly open and accepting and Ruth, while blunt, did not tear Rachel’s head off. Rachel was excited about the room but didn’t really react much to Ruth other than expressing she was not looking forward to their time together and Ruth while blunt, wasn’t overly aggressive or mean, though that doesn’t mean it was pleasant, it isn’t some great wrong that Ruth was like ‘pretty much just ignore me and we’ll get along fine’.
We don’t know enough to say if Rachel is angry still for a genuine reason, or if she misinterpreted something, but we have not yet seen present day Ruth actually be mean to Rachel, while Rachel has screamed in Ruth’s face about how she is never going to change. It isn’t on Ruth to extend an olive branch to someone who attacks her in passing for an unspecified wrong – at that point, it really doesn’t matter if Ruth did wrong her at some point for me. You don’t owe someone an apology any more when they use your actions as an excuse to be cruel to you at every opportunity because they’re not actually looking for healing any more then – they’re keeping the wound open themselves so they can point at it and go LOOK, I’m BLEEDING because of X, that BONGO.
…are we reading the same comic? Even for hyperbolic metaphor that’s a little obscenely descriptive.
“Ruth needs to be the one to bring the olive branch.”
“Best I can using the fucked brain I got, I’m going to do better. […] And for you, Rachel, I’m guessing an apology won’t be enough?”
Alright, olive branch delivered, what’s next Coach?
Are you used to people who never raise their voice and who talk like Joyce did at the beginning?
Ripping someone’s head off sounds distinctly different from what Ruth did in that scene with Rachel we saw.
That’s odd. The way I see it their first interaction was Ruth offering a handshake and a smile and being left hanging on both accounts. Rachel must have a thing about redheads or freckles because that’s literally all she knew about Ruth before she started acting like she does.
I didn’t but Rachel was all frowny when she saw Ruth trying/pretending to be nice contrasted to her smile to the thout of the new room. Its quite possible that Ruth was trying considering trying to act more pleasant saw Rachel wasn’t interested and decided to be honest. Also since nothing Ruth did made Rachel happy its possible she hated Ruth simply because she thought she would have her own room, and she then filtered all Ruth’s actions through a I don’t want a roommate leanse then when she got a new roommate she filtered all her interactions through a finally no Ruth leanse.
There isn’t actually a face shot of Rachel between Ruth’s pretending to be nice and Ruth shooting down her own attempt the next strip. The shot of Rachel as Ruth first speaks has lost the smile I guess, but I wouldn’t describe it as frowny. I just don’t see it. I guess it’s possible, but it would be a big twist.
Also, if Rachel thought she was getting her own room for no particular reason, then she’s just an idiot. Why would she expect that? Is there any hint of it anywhere?
I’ve thought that too, but to be honest I think Rachel has stayed on because she’s liking having the tables turned. Nobody says she has to like Ruth but it’s like she just seeks Ruth out now just to tell her what a piece of shit she was.
Honestly I know I certainly wouldn’t need someone like that in my life when I already do that myself.
If I was in Rachel’s shoes and experienced whatever horrible stuff happened earlier, I’d rather distance myself as much as possible from Ruth. But to be obsessed with hating someone to the point of following them – if that’s what Rachel is doing – that’s unhealthy.
Regarding your concerns, if you feel the need to clear the air about any negative thoughts of yourself, you are free to talk about your worries with me.
If Ruth didn’t do something truly, indefensibly horrible to Rachel this plotline will only make Rachel look worse. “General righteous anger at anyone who abuses a position of power” isn’t an excuse for what Rachel has said, but it’s a more sympathetic motive than “my freshman year roommate was mean to me and I’m still so mad about it that I don’t care if she dies.”
I’m clearly not on Rachel’s side here, and have not been for a while. The strikes against her are pretty big, too: basically siding with Mary after Ruth apologized, knowing full well that Mary was trying to bully her and Ruth to suicide. Now she’s gaslighting her.
Yeah, she did basically side with Mary at the dorm room meeting. She didn’t outright say “Mary was right about you”, but she 100% came close to. You don’t need to be consciously siding with someone to side with them.
This puts Rachel in something of an odd dilemma: Is this even the same Ruth who hurt her? Given the obvious psychiatric disorders in play, can she hold Ruth responsible for actions taken whilst not in her right mind and of which she has no conscious memory?
Of course, this doesn’t lessen her pain or its validity in any way. However, it should make her question whether she is directing her bitterness at the right person. Indeed, she might well wonder if that person really exists anymore.
I didn’t learn about the whole link between mental illness and memory loss until maybe a year or two ago. Suddenly, my incredibly terrible memory (like… I cannot overstate how shitty it is) makes sense.
Also, this situation is tricky for me. As someone who’s been shitty to others because of depression, I feel for Ruth. As someone who dealt with lots of childhood abuse coming from someone who was at the time struggling with depression, I feel for Rachel. It’s… sucky for both parties involved.
Note: I have now reached a point in my life where I’ve mostly been able to forgive my mother for said abuse, mostly due to her finally accepting that it was unacceptable and attempting to improve her behavior. Even now, it’s still a tough situation to be in–mostly bc our relationship will forever bear the scars of that abuse, so I’m always scared to be honest with her where it counts (e.g. she doesn’t know I’m trans and Idk if she ever will bc I know how she’ll feel about it)–so it must be even tougher to still be *in* the middle of the situation.
I said some awful things to people I cared about a long time ago. It took me a few years to realize – and admit – the severity of what had happened. The friends of the people I hurt did not wait to make sure I knew they hated me and made my life miserable for as long as they could.
So what Ruth seems to be going through feels very familiar.
I accepted the fact that these people would never be able to forgive me for what happened. All I could do was make sure they never had to deal with me again.
“Redemption is a story.”
I’m never redeeming myself for what I did. All I can do is try to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Yeah, I can relate hard. A lot of college was a blur due to my depression. Plus side, time these days seems to go no faster than when I was a kid so I’m getting a great chance to live life 😀
I can’t be any more unsuccessful at predicting the strip that I’ve already been, so I’m going with this: Ruth and Rachel had a thing, and it meant a lot more to Rachel than it did to Ruth. Something went bad between them, Ruth doesn’t remember, and Rachel still hurts. Please don’t come back and point out how wrong I was. I’ll remember.
Other people have commented on how true the memory loss that comes with shitty mental health rings to them (and yeah, +1 to that, honestly.) The dilemma of “if you were so wrecked that you hurt people, but also, can’t really remember most of it, what then?” is super personal to me. I did shitty things when I was at my lowest (long depressive spell, wrong meds, and alcohol are one hell of a cocktail.) I regret a lot of them and some others I truly can’t remember (which, joy, was used by my abuser at the time to gaslight me). Ruth’s speech on responsibility to Walky was spot on – You still carry what you did, but with the right treatment, you can start to address it, make amends on what you can, and move on on what you can’t.
…………. which is why Rachel keeps pissing me off. “Oh, I’m SO GLAD you’re having a good morning because you don’t DESERVE one” is incredibly nasty. She could just choose to ignore her? Or like, keep it to a polite greeting and move on. Rachel consistently goes out of her way to antagonize Ruth, and making her her former roommate makes it PETTIER than when it was one individual angry at a verbally abusive RA, considering that anyone with a modicum of empathy would’ve gone “yikes, ok I get it, you’re going through hell and don’t wanna socialize” upon meeting Ruth, and left it at that.
My own memory is skewed in such a way that all I can easily remember is the shitty stuff, which also tends to intrude on any attempt to recall good/neutral stuff. I am aware that I have not in fact lived a life of relentless misery, but I struggle to remember it any other way.
Ruth has publically publicly threatened violence. She damaged Billie’s private property on the pretext of not having a roommate agreement signed, and that was someone she was attracted to. We have it on good authority that her guardian subjected her to domestic abuse, though whether that was simply verbal abuse or worse remains to be seen. It’s not a stretch that behind closed doors, Ruth was also abusive to Rachel, both as a roommate, and a person in power. It would feed into Ruth’s (old) cycle of anger and self-loathing. I hope it’s more superficial than that, but I suspect that is what happened.
Don’t forget that her early problem solving in the comic was escalating situations to violence and then just being better at violence than the people she was instigating. Also at least one clothesline to the gut to Billie because she was running in the halls.
We do not know yet if Ruth was abusive to Rachel when they were roommates. The only things we know right now are:
A) Rachel thinks Ruth is a major asshole who will never change.
B ) The only thing we know that happened when Ruth and Rachel were rooming together is, that Ruth made very clear that she didn’t want to be talked to and would shout while watching ice hockey.
Ruth was aggressive but neither violent nor abusive in that scene.
Everything else we know about Ruth’s behavior is from this year after she became RA (where she did threaten violence as a matter of course).
Thinking Ruth always behaved that way is working on assumptions not facts.
Yes it is working on assumptions not facts, but they’re not unreasonable assumptions. We also know that Ruth had a reputation at the start of this year – which could have come out of nowhere, but is likely based on her actions in previous years.
There doesn’t seem to have been a drastic change in Ruth’s personality between then and now, so extrapolating that behavior was likely similar as well isn’t a huge stretch.
And Rachel’s attitude might not be justified, but it likely came from somewhere.
We don’t have all the pieces yet, but those we do have don’t add up to Ruth being completely innocent until this semester and Rachel having no existing reason to hate her.
I wonder about the timeline here. It looks like Ruth didn’t start RAing this term – she made a reference to administrations liking her because she is effective, which would imply they have had time to form that opinion.
I greatly dislike the use of circular arguments and stating current (or rather a few weeks ago) behavior of Ruth as the reason for Rachel’s long-standing dislike and (at least bordering on) hatred given how she constantly goes out of her way to inform Ruth of her disapproval is faulty logic. It’s like saying that someone who is drunk today, naturally was drunk two years ago.
Ruth hasn’t been inviting friendly relations and I think it’s quite likely she did something that enraged or emotionally hurt Rachel in some way, though I doubt it was intentional – and given her depression and likely way into alcoholism, likely even went unnoticed by Ruth.
That Rachel has reason to be angry at Ruth and not trust her, I don’t doubt in any way. It’s ok if she feels that it doesn’t make sense to actually clear the air and talk with Ruth about it. But passive-aggressively thumping Ruth on the nose with “I know you did something BAD” at every corner is shitty behavior.
I had thought she’d been RA last year as well, based on the same early cues, but apparently not.
I do get what you’re saying, but at the same time, there’s obviously backstory here. I find it more likely that Ruth’s behavior was at least similar and that’s what led to Rachel’s current attitude. Especially since the little bit we have seen doesn’t seem obviously different from Ruth towards the start of this year.
Why do you doubt it was intentional? Ruth’s trying to reform now, but she was clearly established as an alcoholic, violent, bully.
The pattern seems similar. It’s generally safe to assume that people haven’t changed drastically if there aren’t any signs of them having done so. And here, all the signs point to Ruth not being that different then – maybe less extreme, not as close to the crisis point.
As for “I know you did something BAD”, this is actually the first hint we’ve had (other than Rachel’s general dislike) for something that we, and everyone else, don’t know about. Rachel’s not thumping her with some secret regularly, or even here. She’s got real grudges over what happened freshman year, which Ruth has apparently been ignoring ever since. If that’s gone unaddressed even with “new Ruth”, that’s a decent reason for Rachel to still be pissed at her. If Ruth really doesn’t remember, that complicates things of course, but this is likely the first time she’s thought of that as a real possibility.
Even though Ruth’s behavior towards Billie was bullying and violent, I read her that she needed the combination of being attracted to Billie and Billie being a drunk (for which she despised Billie just as she despised her own drinking) to get her to that point.
Usually, I’d say the only person Ruth wants to hurt (but doesn’t dare to) is that sorry excuse of a grandfather.
Everyone else is just collateral damage, which doesn’t make it right but will make it likely Ruth doesn’t notice.
Her RA behavior as a whole, I read as a strategy to get the job done with minimum of stress for herself. As someone pointed out already, telling someone you’ll remove their femurs and beat them with it is no realistic threat, though it will be disturbing in someone who gives off the vibes of extreme stress and hatred that Ruth does.
It could be Ruth is quietly caustic in a bullying sort of way without entirely meaning it, just acting out minor cruelty wrapped in authority from the way she was raised. It might invisible to her but there, like water to a goldfish. She might not even notice the minor ways she is cruel to someone in conflict, it being so matter of fact a part of life to her.
I also have a sense that Rachel showed up with her loving, supportive mom and being offended on some level that’s not Ruth’s existemce. The Fundamental Attribution Error is “I do bad things because it was what made sense in the tough circumstances. Other people do bad things because they are actively embracing a life of evil as a matter of choice or because of their inherently dirty souls.” That’s what the “you are evil forever” proclamations sounded like to me.
I didn’t see see the beating people with their own femurs as a credible threat of violence.
Lots of people have said it. But it was accompanied early on by physically dragging people to the meeting and then assaulting Billie rather than defusing the situation. Actual femur removal might not be credible, but the exaggerated threat still carries threat of more reasonable levels of violence.
Read back through early Ruth. Yeah, to some extent it’s just the only way she knows how to exert authority, but she’s pretty clearly bullying intentionally. Certainly appeared that way to others.
We can like her and celebrate her struggle to improve without whitewashing that she was bad.
So, sometimes as a joke, I’ll tell someone “You know what you did. I don’t, but you do, and you should be ashamed.” Usually the cats, but sometimes people.
Rachel is doing sort of the opposite. “You don’t know what you did, and I’m not telling you, but I know, and you should be ashamed.” My thing is, Ruth is in the best place she’s been in a long time, so if Rachel would just shut up and explain her various grievances, there’s a good chance that Ruth would be receptive and genuinely try to make whatever amends Rachel wanted.
I’m not trying to pile on any anti-Rachel bandwagon, I just wish she’d recognise what’s going on.
Sort of. Though it starts more with her wondering if Ruth doesn’t remember, rather than trying to mess with her with it. If it is something significant – and likely abusive – it’s hard to accept Ruth might really not remember rather than just denying or ignoring it. Or just not caring.
While Rachel is under no obligation to forgive ruth for her past behaviour she also saying someone who is mentally ill that she wont get better and has essentially said in the past that people cant change or improve. Which yunno is super fucking shitty
Sadly, she’s right in the majority of cases. While people CAN change or improve, the people who do tend to be the minority. From my own experience with friends and relatives, people who are bigoted or racist or aggressive or addicts rarely change. Sometimes it’s because they refuse to see that there’s anything wrong with them, sometimes it’s because they can’t. For example, my father is… a combative man. He’s never turned that anger against us, but to hear my relatives tell stories about him, he was always quick to lose his temper as a young man. He sort of mellowed out a bit in his middle years, but now that he’s older it seems he’s now turned it up again. Being aggressive just… seems to be in his nature. He can try to rein it in, but it always feels like the slightest thing can set him off. On bad days, it can be quite uncomfortable being around him, even when you know he’s making an effort.
I don’t think it’s right in the majority of cases when we’re talking about teenagers. I have seen a lot of people let go of shitty opinions in college, get treatment for their mental illnesses after leaving their unsupportive families, or just generally gain some maturity. (Sadly, I’ve also seen some people who were generally cool as teenagers get involved in toxic communities.)
People can change but
1. Change for the better usually takes effort.
2. Maintaining positive change also takes some effort.
3. It gets harder as you get older.
4. The greatest motivation to change is ofen when refusal to change has real lasting consequences to you.
…lots of sad comments tonight. Offering hugs to anyone who wants.
I mean, looking back and realizing you’ve been shitty shows that you’ve improved. A lot. That’s gotta be worth something. In fact, it might be an unavoidable part of growth.
Every major character gets a development arc. We all sympathize with Ruth since we have walked with her through her problems. When Rachel gets her arc, I predict we will find that Ruth was thoughtless and cruel to her. Made her year absolute hell. Will those wounds heal? Will she see Ruth has changed and rejoice in Ruth’s happiness? Maybe with time. But there is minimal evidence that Ruth has changed so far.
As for always being around Ruth, she rarely interacts with her. It’s probably something she avoids. An abuser who got promoted and protected by the administration? Avoid where you can and push back when you can’t. It’s up to Ruth to make amends, not Rachel to offer cheap grace.
“Look at the abuse I’m being forced to visit upon you – I don’t want to, but my hand is being forced.” is not a great look.
Rachel isn’t coming back to anything. This is where she LIVES. In fact, she was probably often forced back, lest you forget that Ruth physically forced people to attend floor meetings.
Not really. All she said in the meeting about being forced into it was “I know you though you’d be rid of me, but you’re still stuck with me, and that blows, and — and that blows.” We know what she was talking about, but Rachel doesn’t know what happened or have any idea how much Ruth didn’t want to still be there.
To be fair, she did tell Rachel earlier “Believe me, I don’t want this, either”, but that could easily ring hollow without the context we have and Rachel doesn’t.
Did you really just greet Ruth to remind her you don’t like her? Like I hope she was just incredibly awful to warrant this grudge. Cause it’s kinda getting a little ridiculous.
You’d be surprised at what depression and other mental health issues can block out. I don’t remember much of the last 5 years of my life. It all runs together the things i can remember, and really the only true anchor in time I have is my nephew, but even that’s getting harder to peg things to.
Panel 3 Rachel’s fave makes me think, once again, that Rachel is aware of how shitty she’s being to Ruth. While she IS right that she is under no obligation to forgive Ruth, and frankly I doubt Ruth would expect an apology, I think forgiving her might help Rachel move on. Something I had to come to terms with long after cutting off my abuser was the idea that forgiveness isn’t something you do for the other person; it’s something you do for you.
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“I was TRYING to give you a polite out but HANG ONTO THAT GRUDGE THEN”
“I WILL THANKS”
“…dang”
Wow. I foresee drama.
…which is a thing that NEVER usually happens in this or any other webcomics.
Someone must have pulled the tag
Ooooh, what happened in freshman year? Tell us! 😀
I’m not sure I want to know….*sigh* but we should.
I Am Curious (Blue Panel)
😀
Bravo.
I also want to see more of their freshman year.
And then, later on when Freshman year is tragic and sad, we curse Willis for giving us what we asked for.
I am starting to have a sneaking suspicion that Ruth and Rachel’s freshman year at least superficially resembled Ruth and Billie’s arc toward the start of their relationship… Ruth being an escalating jerk toward Rachel, Rachel getting a glimpse of Ruth’s more vulnerable side, perhaps even Rachel developing some feelings for Ruth… Except Ruth did something to really hurt Rachel, maybe not even realizing, or maybe on purpose to push Rachel away but far more effective than she’d intended.
Alternately, it resembled Joyce and Sarah’s relationship. Ruth just wanted to be left alone to read her books and watch her team not win Stanley Cups, but Rachel kept bugging Ruth until she went off. Rachel is now ignoring, downplaying, or straight up forgetting her part in things.
Alt-text: It’s Pepperidge Farm, singular.
I used to live one mile from a plant and outlet store. A lot of willpower was called on to not eat Milanos every day.
I had a co-worker who forgot the name of those cookies and said she loved eating Minions. When I was confused about what she meant she said “You know, the ones shaped like this” and drew in the air. Milanos are shaped exactly like Minions, so as you can imagine this did not help clear up the confusion.
Imagine if the Milanos she liked were the lemon ones.
( https://www.pepperidgefarm.com/product/milano-lemon-flavored-cookies-with-other-natural-flavors/ )
Then the conversation could have continued with “Y’know, the yellow ones!”
^.^
They’re okay, I guess.
I’ve always found Pepperidge Farm to be fairly gross [and craaaazy overpriced for what they offer] but, then, I also grew up on European chocolates and cookies and cakes and whatnot. Compared to other American desserts, Pepperidge Farm probably isn’t all that bad.
I’d definitely recommend people go to a World Market or the like and try some international desserts before settling with Pepperidge Farm but, well, if they legitimately like it even after comparing to others, then there’s nothing wrong with that. (Side note, due to how overpriced PF is, imported cookies can at times actually be a cheaper option.)
To the contrary, basically every typical grocery store seems to carry a full selection of Pepperidge Farm cookies, so it’s a pretty ideal setup for those who enjoy them.
Of course, the poster above only stated that they needed willpower to resist eating them, not that they particularily appreciated them. And that’s a totally different thing- I mean, I’m living next door to a Sonic, and I’m regularly compelled to buy their shakes just because they’re always there, reminding me that I could have them if I only was willing.
That’s not to say that Sonic is at all able to compare to better ice cream brands, just that it’s a familiar, comfortable flavor that pressures its way into my mind with its ready convenience. Nevermind that, going off my experience of the town surrounding Bluebell [ice cream]’s factory, the local town likely shoves Pepperidge Farm stuff in your face at every corner.
So yeah, I could totally see myself grabbing some Pepperidge Farm if they were shoving themselves in my face regularly, even despite finding every single component of any of their cookies to be subpar. I mean, when you gotta have a cookie (or ice cream), you gotta have one, y’know? And it’s not like you can count on there being quality offerings available, nevermind at a decent price or convenient location.
So, in summary:
They’re okay, I guess.
Y’nailed it.
The without-doubt best thing I ever found at that store was Vosges chocolate, $4 for the 3.5 oz bar. Again, incredible restraint to just buy a few, and also to share them with my wife.
If all the Eurochocolate at CPWM wasn’t contaminated with hazelnut, maybe.
Stoooooory tiiiiiime
SSTORRRYTIIIME!.
He wants storytime!
Storytime?
*looks for a song about Goldfish* (/alt-text)
“Why are there so many songs about Goldfish?
And why they are such good snacks?”
Once you learn to filk, you’ll never be without something that might go on the hacked Muzak.
And right now, I am remembering a song called “The Dutchman”. Its chorus did not include this couplet:
“Long ago I used to be a young bongo
And dour Rachel remembers that for me.”
I don’t know long it took me to realize that song is really about Margaret. Every time I hear it, I think of my mom spending her “retirement” years being a full-time caregiver for my dad, the literal love of her life.
… Goddammit, now I’ve got that %^&*( song stuck in my head.
your comment fits the song’s rhyme
that really should be a crime
the snack that smiles back
Goldfish
Anyway, what is a non-hacked muzak like?
Elevator music, pretty much.
That’s why Stephen hacked it. It’s much better now. It only VERY OCCASIONALLY murders people now.
I oddly cant remember the last time I heard music in an elevator. Many of them today either have nothing at all or little video screens playing a news channel.
I get my lame-music-jollies now from the cable Music Choice “Easy Listening” channel. And recently heard Enya playing in the examination room when I went in for a colonoscopy. I wonder if she knows what her music is being used for?
The wholesome snack that smiles back until you bite their heads off.
Did the hacked muzak already play In the Air Tonight?
If it had, Google does not RE-MEM-BAH.
Ooooh! Passive-aggression! That always work!
Yep, that’s the face of someone who remembers far too well and is now wishing they couldn’t remember.
You can choose not to engage Rachel, most people do that when givin the option to interact with people who were toxic to them in the past.
R.A or not Your not obligated too unless it’s necessary.
Makes me wonder if Rachel isn’t the aggressor here (which causes Ruth to go from loner into Ruthless)
Nah, Rachel is blaming Ruth for getting better. She’s 100% in the wrong here. It makes me afraid for what happens when Ruth *apologizes*.
Ruth already apologized, at the first meeting after Ruth got out of the hospital.
We got “Redemption is a story.”
Fuck. Tall. Rachel.
The abuser has apologized. All must be forgiven.
All doesn’t have to be forgiven but you definitely also don’t have to keep fucking with them. Rachel goes out of her way to bother Ruth and that’s shitty
It would be better if Rachel just didn’t interact with Ruth or had switched halls. Not purposely drag her down every time she tries to be a better person. Abused can easily become an abuser themselves, you know.
“You know, it’s really her fault for staying around the abuser.”
In this case, it is. Ruth has changed and is trying to better herself. She realizes she effed up and can never fix what she did, but she’s trying to do better. Rachel, on the other hand, while supposedly justified in her anger, is now being the abuser, herself, by continually antagonizing Ruth and utterly disregarding her attempts to be a better person. Rachel is most assuredly no longer the victim, here, if she, indeed, was in the first place.
As someone who has been in Ruth’s place and Rach’s, I can tell you from experience that Rachel is legitimately sabotaging Ruth’s recovery with her behavior and by trivializing her attempts to be better, and doing so consciously. That is never okay, no matter what she may or may not have done to her in the past.
It’d also be nice if Rachel stayed out of the comment section.
We get it, thejeff, you think redemption is a story.
It’s her fault for fucking with someone who clearly is trying to get better, yes.
So amber isn’t allowed to sass her dad if he goes into therapy, got it.
Damn bongo, time to move on
Panel 3 is an interesting expression, given how she looked more angry in panel 2, or the way she walked out. I’m very interested to see more about what happened between them.
Oh, dear. Did Ruth and Rachel have a… thing?
I could see it being friendship rather than romantic, given Ruth didn’t behave like she had experience with women prior to Billie.
I definitely have memory loss from dealing with my head stuff, so that’s always fun when people ask you about things you should remember but can’t. And by fun I mean disheartening and frustrating, at least from my experience.
It just hit me. She’s from Canada. Her Grandfather is wealthy. Yet, she doesn’t seem to have received any mental health care after the death of her parents. Something ain’t right about that.
There probably wasn’t much of a time gap between her parents dying and her and Howie moving to the States with gramps. And once they were there, he’s an abusive asshole so that likely explains why he didn’t bother to get her proper mental health care.
even if they were in Canada for a long time after the fact, mental health care is Not Cheap here. mental health, dental, optical, prescription drugs still have to be paid for out of pocket. Canada’s health care is ranked third worst in the developed world, just above the US and I believe France.
plus yeah, he’s a major dinkus I doubt he’d care about that sort of thing anyway
Just for any Canadians looking at this who don’t know otherwise and are worrying, SOME mental health care is covered. I can definitely speak for BC and I know friends who have accessed it in Alberta. Also if you don’t have money for psych prescriptions in BC, there’s plan g through pharmacare
Emphasizing ‘some’ because it is not enough for many people (including me), and super lacking for rural people and especially (and intentionally) for indiginous nations, but I do want people to know there are some things that are covered (for sure in BC: mental health emergency hospital visits, appointments with your GP, government mental health facilities (usually [City] Mental Health) for about 8 appointments a year, and often these have connected free programs, eg outpatient group therapy).
This isn’t to argue with you, I just get worried about people doing what I did for years: not bothering to seek it out.
I actually had no idea that existed so I appreciate the info! the only time I was able to get help was when I was 20 and still under my mom’s insurance from work, which I then aged out of a few months later. good thing I don’t actually need it that badly and have been doing pretty well with just meds.
Speaking for the NT, I see a regular counselor for free and have accessed emergency room treatment and in-patient stays which were covered by healthcare. As Axel said, it’s always worth looking into what’s available.
It’s weird how there is not a single report that actually ranks Canada that bad, isn’t it? Depending on the year it can be several steps over America and America consistently comes pretty far down as far as the developed world is concerned.
Canada might not be amazing, but at least someone won’t go into debt thanks to a heart attack.
Sounds like Canadian health care is amazing… compared to American health care. Compared to most of the rest of the developed world, not so much.
Being able to afford mental healthcare doesn’t mean your family thinks mental health care is something people who aren’t weak should need.
Grandpa Dickwad moved Ruth and Carla to Indiana before they’d even had time to process their parents’ death. And Grandpa Dickwad pretty clearly believes that mental health care is for wimps, and god forbid that any of his kids grow up to be wimps.
Howard. Ruth and Howard. I know Carla has red hair and that’d be an interesting timeline but that ain’t this timeline.
I have no idea how “Carla” wound up there. Can’t even explain it by predictive text.
I was typing furiously because another Battlebots round was about to begin, and I wanted to hit “Post” before it did. I’m guessing Ruth and Carla red-haired their way into a single person in my inattentive state of mind.
Carla tends to pop up unexpectedly.
That she does.
Also, yah Battlebots.
I think Carla would assert her individuality here by clarifying that her hair is really more of a maroon.
Moving them immediately is pretty much what would have to happen, even if Clint was the nicest person in the world. It’s not like they could stay on their own. It adds to the trauma, but what’s the alternative.
The lack of mental health care is certainly on him though. Problems with the US system are basically class based and Clint’s influence suggests he would have easily been able to afford treatment for them.
Yeah, it is called her grandfather is abusive. That’s the thing wrong with it. He doesn’t care about Ruth’s well-being.
Also, it cannot be stressed just how much, in the US, even having good health care does not mean that you have good access to mental health care. My current HMO is pretty good overall, but is infamous for the fact that its bean counters have heavily nerfed its mental health services.
And there are at least some therapists who won’t accept insurance.
The German health care systems covers a lot of therapy, unfortunately they restricted it to a handful of methods (psychoanalysis, behavioral therapy, talk therapy based on deep psycholog, and, wonder of wonders, they have included EMDR). The number of therapists who are accepted by health insurance is limited and this leads to incredible waiting periods.
So a lot of people spend a lot off their income to pay for therapy themselves, because it’s easier to find an opening.
Hard to believe, but Canada has assholes too.
“I’m so glad things are working out for you!!!”
“I relapsed yesterday because my girlfriend thinks she isn’t good enough for me and was trying to push me away for my own good but just wound up hurting the both of us. Also, I’m just trying to do my job right now to celebrate the birthdays of two of the people who live here.”
“…Yeah, well. You suck.”
Man I hope Rachel has a good reason to hate Ruth so much, because at this point she really just reads as super petty. Get a hobby, Rachel. Or just move on. Does hating Ruth with a dying passion really do anything for you? I don’t think Ruth even cares about her opinion at this point, so there’s no point to it. Also, she heckin’ owes Billie an apology for 1) treating her as if she had no agency, 2) potentially putting her in danger had Ruth ACTUALLY been an out and out abuser and 3) acting as if she cares about Billie when she never once lifted a finger to help Billie out or offer her any assistance when she was being supposedly abused.
Some folks not only won’t let things go, they turn holding a grudge into a noble virtue. Its possible that Ruth did something so cruel AND then got away with it, that Rachel feels that she needs to prevent the issue from dying out of a sense of justice. Or, y’know– Rachel could just be a jerk.
I’m hoping we see more backstory of Ruth and Rachel in their freshman year so we can find out why Rachel hates Ruth so much. It better be a damn good reason, because without that backstory right now Rachel’s hate towards Ruth feels very petty to me as well.
Mostly on Point 1) Given that the relationship, from what someone on the floor would have seen, looked really abusive, I can’t really blame Rachel here. It definitely started off abusive and even though that changed when the actual relationship started, they were still fighting in public to cover up the relationship.
For all the real problems with the relationship, it looks a lot worse without the behind the scenes bits we see.
As for 3) finding out it’s a sexual relationship, not just Ruth’s usual bullying makes it a hell of a lot worse and that she wouldn’t have known until after the fact.
Honestly that makes point one worse because somebody doesn’t lose their agency just because they have been abused. When I say ‘Rachel treats her as if she had no agency’ I’m referring to when Rachel said, and I quote, that Ruth got to “keep Billie”. Keep her, as if she were a dog or a toy. That’s gross. Really gross. Especially if she truly thinks Billie’s being abused.
As for point 3, she still did nothing to help someone who was being beaten up and thrown into a couch and every other abusive thing Ruth did to Billie. Just for my own rule of thumb, if you’re not willing to help somebody, you don’t get to champion their cause against their wishes or treat them as if you really care about them. Because Rachel doesn’t care about Billie’s well-being. She just uses her to needle Ruth and call her abusive. Which is gross. And I’m not saying Rachel should have beaten Ruth up because I know that’s scary to do when you think someone is abusive. But she should at least own up to the fact that she did NOTHING to help Billie instead of being a hypocrite and acting as if she cares.
Even the simplest gesture of trying to help Billie up, glaring at Ruth on Billie’s behalf, or slipping her a therapist card like Roz did for Joyce once, any of those things would prove to me that she at least cared for Billie beyond what she can use their relationship to say or demean Ruth with.
That Rachel waited until Ruth’s lowest moment to rip into her sealed it for me. Ruth was a violent awful bully, but she had her grandfather’s specter behind her. Until evidence surfaces that puts Ruth anywhere near her grandfather (I don’t buy it), Rachel can fuck right off. Did she make any complaints to the RA Freshman year? Did she ever go to Puddinghead (who is admittedly incompent as shit)?
I understand this reads a LOT like victim blaming (maaaaaybe is victim blaming), but Rachel has so far visibly done jack and shit to actually address the problem; she just saw that she has the opportunity abuse Ruth back.
I agree with you there. It’s pretty gross to wait until someone’s already down to decide ‘now I can kick her too!’ when there was nothing before. It’s super fucked.
It is victim blaming, yes. You’re blaming the victim of abuse for not cleaning up the abusers messes for them.
This whole comment section today is gross beyond reason, and I can’t see it ever being extended to a non protag abuser like Blaine or toedad.
Wow, this person with severe mental health issues is showing signs of improvement. How dare they!
Rachel, would you kindly fucking fuck all the fucking way off? …..Fuck.
Telling her you remember in a derisive way isn’t going to make her remember and do whatever you want her to do to atone, Rachel.
I feel bad for Ruth, I have several years where my depression was so bad that I don’t remember more than a couple moments in them. There are even tv shows and stuff that I will watch and say to my husband ‘I guess we didn’t watch this season, so it’s not even anything specific like stressful life events that are blocked out (or were perhaps never retained in the first place). Most of the year I got engaged is completely gone.
I don’t blame Rachel that much either, Ruth not remembering doesn’t cancel out whatever she did to Rachel, but I don’t get what she’s trying to accomplish. If it’s to get some sort of reparations, it won’t happen from the vague rudeness that Ruth doesn’t remember causing, and if she just wants to take it out on Ruth, she’s not really doing that efficiently either.
this was not meant to be a reply, but Cyrus was the bottom comment when I typed it so I forgive myself for clicking the wrong place
I get the feeling that Rachel does not want Ruth to do anything in particular to atone except be miserable and alone the rest of her life which I’m pretty sure would ultimately make things worse for everyone, or to go away which I think Ruth is not in a good position to do.
At this point in the story I don’t know if Ruth really did anything that bad during that time or if it was just a case of two highly incompatible room mates.
Now I’m thinking about Lapis I have no doubt that she had real reason to hate Jasper, but the decision to turn the tables on Jasper did not exactly make Lapis happy or make Jasper regret her actions.
Improvement is a story, remember?
Redemption. Redemption is a story.
(I know, I was expanding it to cover another thing.)
Honestly the line you will always be what you were before, instead of you past crimes will never go away, kind of makes it sound like Rachel was saying improvement is a story.
Honestly, Rachel can fuck off
As someone who’s dealt with, and is dealing with memory loss due to depression, I really empathize with Ruth here…I have a hazey memory at best of a good 6 years. if you have mental health problems PLEASE get help
Oh boy, more flashbacks with Rachel. What joy, what jubilation. I can’t wait to sympathize with her!
. . . What do you mean you can tell I’m being sarcastic? What gave it away?
I think the grav was the giveaway. That’s a sarcastic expression if I’ve ever seen one.
Yes, Rachel is being spiteful and passive aggressive, but remember their first meeting: Rachel was open and accepting, and Ruth basically ripped her head off and shat in her lungs—with Rachel’s Mom standing right there. Depression and alcohol might cloud Ruth’s memories, might even have caused much of her bad behavior, but that’s still just an excuse for bad behavior. Maybe Rachel was always hateful, or maybe Ruth just sparked that hateful aspect of Rachel through her free-range nastiness. All that matters now is that Ruth needs to make amends. Even if it gets slapped down, Ruth needs to be the one to bring the olive branch.
Open and accepting? Hm. I read Rachel’s expression more as, “What? A roommate? I don’t want a roommate.”
Seriously? It’s not like having a roommate is a surprise. If Rachel wasn’t expecting a roommate, she’s got more serious problems than we knew.
Yeah. That one interaction was definitely the Rosetta Stone for the entirety of freshman year. Good job! You’ve solved the webcomic.
That description seems… extreme, no? Sure Ruth was unfriendly and a bit rude, and we’ll probably see more flashbacks where she does worse things, but Ruth wasn’t any worse to Rachel in the last flashback than Sarah is to most of the cast. Grumpily saying you want to be left alone (and even making clear that it’s a YOU thing, not a personal dislike of them) isn’t hateful or abusive.
…Rachel was not clearly open and accepting and Ruth, while blunt, did not tear Rachel’s head off. Rachel was excited about the room but didn’t really react much to Ruth other than expressing she was not looking forward to their time together and Ruth while blunt, wasn’t overly aggressive or mean, though that doesn’t mean it was pleasant, it isn’t some great wrong that Ruth was like ‘pretty much just ignore me and we’ll get along fine’.
We don’t know enough to say if Rachel is angry still for a genuine reason, or if she misinterpreted something, but we have not yet seen present day Ruth actually be mean to Rachel, while Rachel has screamed in Ruth’s face about how she is never going to change. It isn’t on Ruth to extend an olive branch to someone who attacks her in passing for an unspecified wrong – at that point, it really doesn’t matter if Ruth did wrong her at some point for me. You don’t owe someone an apology any more when they use your actions as an excuse to be cruel to you at every opportunity because they’re not actually looking for healing any more then – they’re keeping the wound open themselves so they can point at it and go LOOK, I’m BLEEDING because of X, that BONGO.
“ripped her head off and shat in her lungs”
…are we reading the same comic? Even for hyperbolic metaphor that’s a little obscenely descriptive.
“Ruth needs to be the one to bring the olive branch.”
“Best I can using the fucked brain I got, I’m going to do better. […] And for you, Rachel, I’m guessing an apology won’t be enough?”
Alright, olive branch delivered, what’s next Coach?
Are you used to people who never raise their voice and who talk like Joyce did at the beginning?
Ripping someone’s head off sounds distinctly different from what Ruth did in that scene with Rachel we saw.
That’s odd. The way I see it their first interaction was Ruth offering a handshake and a smile and being left hanging on both accounts. Rachel must have a thing about redheads or freckles because that’s literally all she knew about Ruth before she started acting like she does.
Did you miss the second flashback strip?
Where Ruth followed that up with “Wouldn’t it be weird if I were like that?”
I didn’t but Rachel was all frowny when she saw Ruth trying/pretending to be nice contrasted to her smile to the thout of the new room. Its quite possible that Ruth was trying considering trying to act more pleasant saw Rachel wasn’t interested and decided to be honest. Also since nothing Ruth did made Rachel happy its possible she hated Ruth simply because she thought she would have her own room, and she then filtered all Ruth’s actions through a I don’t want a roommate leanse then when she got a new roommate she filtered all her interactions through a finally no Ruth leanse.
There isn’t actually a face shot of Rachel between Ruth’s pretending to be nice and Ruth shooting down her own attempt the next strip. The shot of Rachel as Ruth first speaks has lost the smile I guess, but I wouldn’t describe it as frowny. I just don’t see it. I guess it’s possible, but it would be a big twist.
Also, if Rachel thought she was getting her own room for no particular reason, then she’s just an idiot. Why would she expect that? Is there any hint of it anywhere?
I wonder if Rachel has attempted to transfer to another dorm given her apparent dislike of Ruth.
I’ve thought that too, but to be honest I think Rachel has stayed on because she’s liking having the tables turned. Nobody says she has to like Ruth but it’s like she just seeks Ruth out now just to tell her what a piece of shit she was.
Honestly I know I certainly wouldn’t need someone like that in my life when I already do that myself.
If I was in Rachel’s shoes and experienced whatever horrible stuff happened earlier, I’d rather distance myself as much as possible from Ruth. But to be obsessed with hating someone to the point of following them – if that’s what Rachel is doing – that’s unhealthy.
Regarding your concerns, if you feel the need to clear the air about any negative thoughts of yourself, you are free to talk about your worries with me.
I appreciate it, but I was being mostly facetious to make a point about how what Rachel is doing is worse than useless.
Rachel, maybe the day Ruth fucked up may have been the most traumatic experience for you, but for Ruth it was just Tuesday of tacos.
I see I picked a good time to catch up…
If Ruth didn’t do something truly, indefensibly horrible to Rachel this plotline will only make Rachel look worse. “General righteous anger at anyone who abuses a position of power” isn’t an excuse for what Rachel has said, but it’s a more sympathetic motive than “my freshman year roommate was mean to me and I’m still so mad about it that I don’t care if she dies.”
I’m clearly not on Rachel’s side here, and have not been for a while. The strikes against her are pretty big, too: basically siding with Mary after Ruth apologized, knowing full well that Mary was trying to bully her and Ruth to suicide. Now she’s gaslighting her.
“Siding with Mary”? I missed that.
That she’s not on Ruth’s side doesn’t mean she’s on Mary’s.
To quote her (on a slightly different angle) – “We can multitask.”
Yeah, she did basically side with Mary at the dorm room meeting. She didn’t outright say “Mary was right about you”, but she 100% came close to. You don’t need to be consciously siding with someone to side with them.
This puts Rachel in something of an odd dilemma: Is this even the same Ruth who hurt her? Given the obvious psychiatric disorders in play, can she hold Ruth responsible for actions taken whilst not in her right mind and of which she has no conscious memory?
Of course, this doesn’t lessen her pain or its validity in any way. However, it should make her question whether she is directing her bitterness at the right person. Indeed, she might well wonder if that person really exists anymore.
If Ruth can’t remember maybe she did try changing only to fall back into asshole habits again.
I didn’t learn about the whole link between mental illness and memory loss until maybe a year or two ago. Suddenly, my incredibly terrible memory (like… I cannot overstate how shitty it is) makes sense.
Also, this situation is tricky for me. As someone who’s been shitty to others because of depression, I feel for Ruth. As someone who dealt with lots of childhood abuse coming from someone who was at the time struggling with depression, I feel for Rachel. It’s… sucky for both parties involved.
Note: I have now reached a point in my life where I’ve mostly been able to forgive my mother for said abuse, mostly due to her finally accepting that it was unacceptable and attempting to improve her behavior. Even now, it’s still a tough situation to be in–mostly bc our relationship will forever bear the scars of that abuse, so I’m always scared to be honest with her where it counts (e.g. she doesn’t know I’m trans and Idk if she ever will bc I know how she’ll feel about it)–so it must be even tougher to still be *in* the middle of the situation.
Oh yeah? Well Pepperidge Fa- DAMMIT ALT-TEXT!!
Starting to relate to Ruth quite a bit.
I said some awful things to people I cared about a long time ago. It took me a few years to realize – and admit – the severity of what had happened. The friends of the people I hurt did not wait to make sure I knew they hated me and made my life miserable for as long as they could.
So what Ruth seems to be going through feels very familiar.
I accepted the fact that these people would never be able to forgive me for what happened. All I could do was make sure they never had to deal with me again.
“Redemption is a story.”
I’m never redeeming myself for what I did. All I can do is try to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Yeah, I can relate hard. A lot of college was a blur due to my depression. Plus side, time these days seems to go no faster than when I was a kid so I’m getting a great chance to live life 😀
I can’t be any more unsuccessful at predicting the strip that I’ve already been, so I’m going with this: Ruth and Rachel had a thing, and it meant a lot more to Rachel than it did to Ruth. Something went bad between them, Ruth doesn’t remember, and Rachel still hurts. Please don’t come back and point out how wrong I was. I’ll remember.
Ruth didn’t find out she liked girls until Billie. At least, she said as much.
Part of what she doesn’t remember.
And if Ruth’s approach to Rachel as abusive as her early approach to Billie, that goes a long way to explain Rachel’s attitude.
I don’t actually think that’s it though. I expect more general abuse, not a sexual/romantic version. Looks like we’re going to find out though.
Other people have commented on how true the memory loss that comes with shitty mental health rings to them (and yeah, +1 to that, honestly.) The dilemma of “if you were so wrecked that you hurt people, but also, can’t really remember most of it, what then?” is super personal to me. I did shitty things when I was at my lowest (long depressive spell, wrong meds, and alcohol are one hell of a cocktail.) I regret a lot of them and some others I truly can’t remember (which, joy, was used by my abuser at the time to gaslight me). Ruth’s speech on responsibility to Walky was spot on – You still carry what you did, but with the right treatment, you can start to address it, make amends on what you can, and move on on what you can’t.
…………. which is why Rachel keeps pissing me off. “Oh, I’m SO GLAD you’re having a good morning because you don’t DESERVE one” is incredibly nasty. She could just choose to ignore her? Or like, keep it to a polite greeting and move on. Rachel consistently goes out of her way to antagonize Ruth, and making her her former roommate makes it PETTIER than when it was one individual angry at a verbally abusive RA, considering that anyone with a modicum of empathy would’ve gone “yikes, ok I get it, you’re going through hell and don’t wanna socialize” upon meeting Ruth, and left it at that.
My own memory is skewed in such a way that all I can easily remember is the shitty stuff, which also tends to intrude on any attempt to recall good/neutral stuff. I am aware that I have not in fact lived a life of relentless misery, but I struggle to remember it any other way.
Did Ruth do something genuinely horrible, like torturing a puppy to death, or is this just some sort of thin-skinned butt hurt that won’t go away?
There’s now way to know without more info . All I have seen Ruth do is Be Sorta Grumpy.
Ruth has publically publicly threatened violence. She damaged Billie’s private property on the pretext of not having a roommate agreement signed, and that was someone she was attracted to. We have it on good authority that her guardian subjected her to domestic abuse, though whether that was simply verbal abuse or worse remains to be seen. It’s not a stretch that behind closed doors, Ruth was also abusive to Rachel, both as a roommate, and a person in power. It would feed into Ruth’s (old) cycle of anger and self-loathing. I hope it’s more superficial than that, but I suspect that is what happened.
Don’t forget that her early problem solving in the comic was escalating situations to violence and then just being better at violence than the people she was instigating. Also at least one clothesline to the gut to Billie because she was running in the halls.
We do not know yet if Ruth was abusive to Rachel when they were roommates. The only things we know right now are:
A) Rachel thinks Ruth is a major asshole who will never change.
B ) The only thing we know that happened when Ruth and Rachel were rooming together is, that Ruth made very clear that she didn’t want to be talked to and would shout while watching ice hockey.
Ruth was aggressive but neither violent nor abusive in that scene.
Everything else we know about Ruth’s behavior is from this year after she became RA (where she did threaten violence as a matter of course).
Thinking Ruth always behaved that way is working on assumptions not facts.
Yes it is working on assumptions not facts, but they’re not unreasonable assumptions. We also know that Ruth had a reputation at the start of this year – which could have come out of nowhere, but is likely based on her actions in previous years.
There doesn’t seem to have been a drastic change in Ruth’s personality between then and now, so extrapolating that behavior was likely similar as well isn’t a huge stretch.
And Rachel’s attitude might not be justified, but it likely came from somewhere.
We don’t have all the pieces yet, but those we do have don’t add up to Ruth being completely innocent until this semester and Rachel having no existing reason to hate her.
I wonder about the timeline here. It looks like Ruth didn’t start RAing this term – she made a reference to administrations liking her because she is effective, which would imply they have had time to form that opinion.
I greatly dislike the use of circular arguments and stating current (or rather a few weeks ago) behavior of Ruth as the reason for Rachel’s long-standing dislike and (at least bordering on) hatred given how she constantly goes out of her way to inform Ruth of her disapproval is faulty logic. It’s like saying that someone who is drunk today, naturally was drunk two years ago.
Ruth hasn’t been inviting friendly relations and I think it’s quite likely she did something that enraged or emotionally hurt Rachel in some way, though I doubt it was intentional – and given her depression and likely way into alcoholism, likely even went unnoticed by Ruth.
That Rachel has reason to be angry at Ruth and not trust her, I don’t doubt in any way. It’s ok if she feels that it doesn’t make sense to actually clear the air and talk with Ruth about it. But passive-aggressively thumping Ruth on the nose with “I know you did something BAD” at every corner is shitty behavior.
I had thought she’d been RA last year as well, based on the same early cues, but apparently not.
I do get what you’re saying, but at the same time, there’s obviously backstory here. I find it more likely that Ruth’s behavior was at least similar and that’s what led to Rachel’s current attitude. Especially since the little bit we have seen doesn’t seem obviously different from Ruth towards the start of this year.
Why do you doubt it was intentional? Ruth’s trying to reform now, but she was clearly established as an alcoholic, violent, bully.
The pattern seems similar. It’s generally safe to assume that people haven’t changed drastically if there aren’t any signs of them having done so. And here, all the signs point to Ruth not being that different then – maybe less extreme, not as close to the crisis point.
As for “I know you did something BAD”, this is actually the first hint we’ve had (other than Rachel’s general dislike) for something that we, and everyone else, don’t know about. Rachel’s not thumping her with some secret regularly, or even here. She’s got real grudges over what happened freshman year, which Ruth has apparently been ignoring ever since. If that’s gone unaddressed even with “new Ruth”, that’s a decent reason for Rachel to still be pissed at her. If Ruth really doesn’t remember, that complicates things of course, but this is likely the first time she’s thought of that as a real possibility.
Even though Ruth’s behavior towards Billie was bullying and violent, I read her that she needed the combination of being attracted to Billie and Billie being a drunk (for which she despised Billie just as she despised her own drinking) to get her to that point.
Usually, I’d say the only person Ruth wants to hurt (but doesn’t dare to) is that sorry excuse of a grandfather.
Everyone else is just collateral damage, which doesn’t make it right but will make it likely Ruth doesn’t notice.
Her RA behavior as a whole, I read as a strategy to get the job done with minimum of stress for herself. As someone pointed out already, telling someone you’ll remove their femurs and beat them with it is no realistic threat, though it will be disturbing in someone who gives off the vibes of extreme stress and hatred that Ruth does.
It could be Ruth is quietly caustic in a bullying sort of way without entirely meaning it, just acting out minor cruelty wrapped in authority from the way she was raised. It might invisible to her but there, like water to a goldfish. She might not even notice the minor ways she is cruel to someone in conflict, it being so matter of fact a part of life to her.
I also have a sense that Rachel showed up with her loving, supportive mom and being offended on some level that’s not Ruth’s existemce. The Fundamental Attribution Error is “I do bad things because it was what made sense in the tough circumstances. Other people do bad things because they are actively embracing a life of evil as a matter of choice or because of their inherently dirty souls.” That’s what the “you are evil forever” proclamations sounded like to me.
I didn’t see see the beating people with their own femurs as a credible threat of violence.
“I didn’t see the beating people with their own femurs as a credible threat of violence.”
I’m glad someone finally said it.
Lots of people have said it. But it was accompanied early on by physically dragging people to the meeting and then assaulting Billie rather than defusing the situation. Actual femur removal might not be credible, but the exaggerated threat still carries threat of more reasonable levels of violence.
Read back through early Ruth. Yeah, to some extent it’s just the only way she knows how to exert authority, but she’s pretty clearly bullying intentionally. Certainly appeared that way to others.
We can like her and celebrate her struggle to improve without whitewashing that she was bad.
So, sometimes as a joke, I’ll tell someone “You know what you did. I don’t, but you do, and you should be ashamed.” Usually the cats, but sometimes people.
Rachel is doing sort of the opposite. “You don’t know what you did, and I’m not telling you, but I know, and you should be ashamed.” My thing is, Ruth is in the best place she’s been in a long time, so if Rachel would just shut up and explain her various grievances, there’s a good chance that Ruth would be receptive and genuinely try to make whatever amends Rachel wanted.
I’m not trying to pile on any anti-Rachel bandwagon, I just wish she’d recognise what’s going on.
Sort of. Though it starts more with her wondering if Ruth doesn’t remember, rather than trying to mess with her with it. If it is something significant – and likely abusive – it’s hard to accept Ruth might really not remember rather than just denying or ignoring it. Or just not caring.
Geez, Rachel, stop. I know you’re bitter, but you do know Ruth suffers from depression, right? Stop kicking her…
While Rachel is under no obligation to forgive ruth for her past behaviour she also saying someone who is mentally ill that she wont get better and has essentially said in the past that people cant change or improve. Which yunno is super fucking shitty
Sadly, she’s right in the majority of cases. While people CAN change or improve, the people who do tend to be the minority. From my own experience with friends and relatives, people who are bigoted or racist or aggressive or addicts rarely change. Sometimes it’s because they refuse to see that there’s anything wrong with them, sometimes it’s because they can’t. For example, my father is… a combative man. He’s never turned that anger against us, but to hear my relatives tell stories about him, he was always quick to lose his temper as a young man. He sort of mellowed out a bit in his middle years, but now that he’s older it seems he’s now turned it up again. Being aggressive just… seems to be in his nature. He can try to rein it in, but it always feels like the slightest thing can set him off. On bad days, it can be quite uncomfortable being around him, even when you know he’s making an effort.
I don’t think it’s right in the majority of cases when we’re talking about teenagers. I have seen a lot of people let go of shitty opinions in college, get treatment for their mental illnesses after leaving their unsupportive families, or just generally gain some maturity. (Sadly, I’ve also seen some people who were generally cool as teenagers get involved in toxic communities.)
People can change but
1. Change for the better usually takes effort.
2. Maintaining positive change also takes some effort.
3. It gets harder as you get older.
4. The greatest motivation to change is ofen when refusal to change has real lasting consequences to you.
Never heard of depression causing memory loss.
You have now.
Time for more flashbaaacks. Oh god are they ex ?
Pretty much the situation between me and my father. But with much fewer years.
…lots of sad comments tonight. Offering hugs to anyone who wants.
I mean, looking back and realizing you’ve been shitty shows that you’ve improved. A lot. That’s gotta be worth something. In fact, it might be an unavoidable part of growth.
Except for the kind of abuser keeps apologizing and keeps abusing. Which is often tied to alcoholism.
Every major character gets a development arc. We all sympathize with Ruth since we have walked with her through her problems. When Rachel gets her arc, I predict we will find that Ruth was thoughtless and cruel to her. Made her year absolute hell. Will those wounds heal? Will she see Ruth has changed and rejoice in Ruth’s happiness? Maybe with time. But there is minimal evidence that Ruth has changed so far.
As for always being around Ruth, she rarely interacts with her. It’s probably something she avoids. An abuser who got promoted and protected by the administration? Avoid where you can and push back when you can’t. It’s up to Ruth to make amends, not Rachel to offer cheap grace.
The abuser also publicly apologized and said that she did not want to come back. Like, outright told the room she was forced into it.
Rachel keeps coming back.
“Look at the abuse I’m being forced to visit upon you – I don’t want to, but my hand is being forced.” is not a great look.
Rachel isn’t coming back to anything. This is where she LIVES. In fact, she was probably often forced back, lest you forget that Ruth physically forced people to attend floor meetings.
Rachel is also freely capable of walking away any time Ruth is in the room, or not engaging after Ruth made it clear the she regretted her actions.
And wow, way to twist Ruth’s words. That’s only the third or fourth worst thing I’ve ever read someone put here, you’re starting strong.
Not really. All she said in the meeting about being forced into it was “I know you though you’d be rid of me, but you’re still stuck with me, and that blows, and — and that blows.” We know what she was talking about, but Rachel doesn’t know what happened or have any idea how much Ruth didn’t want to still be there.
To be fair, she did tell Rachel earlier “Believe me, I don’t want this, either”, but that could easily ring hollow without the context we have and Rachel doesn’t.
This likely is the arc where we find out about what happened between Ruth and Rachel, even if it is still mostly Ruth’s arc.
Did you really just greet Ruth to remind her you don’t like her? Like I hope she was just incredibly awful to warrant this grudge. Cause it’s kinda getting a little ridiculous.
jesus, rachel let it tf go
Agreed she is holding onto whatever this is hard. After you graduate you’ll never see each other again, maybe not even next year in different dorms.
Any chance Billie and Ruth will go in for a punk makeover in a future strip?
I don’t want a new storyline to follow; I just want to see what Ruth’s head looks like shaved down.
How bad must things have been if she doesn’t even remember an entire year?
You’d be surprised at what depression and other mental health issues can block out. I don’t remember much of the last 5 years of my life. It all runs together the things i can remember, and really the only true anchor in time I have is my nephew, but even that’s getting harder to peg things to.
Panel 3 Rachel’s fave makes me think, once again, that Rachel is aware of how shitty she’s being to Ruth. While she IS right that she is under no obligation to forgive Ruth, and frankly I doubt Ruth would expect an apology, I think forgiving her might help Rachel move on. Something I had to come to terms with long after cutting off my abuser was the idea that forgiveness isn’t something you do for the other person; it’s something you do for you.
*face
Though I think for that kind of forgiveness, the person you forgive doesn’t actually need to be there. At least in my own experience.
Huh, memory loss is a symptom of depression? Guess I finally have a reason to seek treatment.
*Ready Player One theme intensifies*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMBylNJQEbg