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later: *Walky punches parents*
I’m imagining the silent beat panels to get there, him at the bus station, him on the bus, stopping at a Taco Bell…
Come on, you know he wouldn’t stop at taco bell. This is obviously a McNuggets level revelation. Gonna need like 100 McNuggets.
https://youtu.be/Ym_F8O0Usuo
Walky: “That’s not funny!”
Linda is unconscious.
… overnight at the Taco Bell Hotel …
https://www.tacobell.com/taco-bell-hotel
The comic just becomes Walky punching everyone who has wronged Sal.
If it’s regardless of where Sal stands on the matter, that wouldn’t be great for his relationship with Amber.
Given Amber’s self-esteem she’d probably respond with “yeah that’s fair” but volunteer to assist with the other punching.
Cue for Walky and Amber imitating Bucchiarati’s team gag of kicking someone on the floor, followed by Sal drinking wine and then joining them.
Walky starts punching himself.
Right.
On a much less serious level than Asher, Walky also provoked Sal into misbehaviour and then ratted her out for shits a giggles.
And then Bart O’Ryan points and laughs at the targets.
Then Mike runs up and kicks them.
The Rick and Summer montage, but it’s a Beefed up Walky doing it.
(Apologies if you hate Rick and Morty.)
Being a good brother is getting more and more difficult.
“Nobody ever said there’d be so many rules ’bout who to punch!”
See this is why Batman beats up the purse thief instead of using his massive wealth to try and encourage socio-economic change that lowers the crime rate.
Punching is easy.
Blame Jujitsu? Or the true final boss revealing itself?
So…Asher saying that Walky is One Punch Man?
Saitama would have liquidated him.
But he only kills monsters.
So Blaine, Ryan, Toedad or Leland then (possibly some more but it’s hard to keep track of the number of Villains in this comic).
Let’s not forget Ruth’s absolute conga of a grandfather
Walky is one punch man if he wants to live.
Look, Asher, you’re new here. Before you move up to supporting character status, you have to play the bit part and pay your dues as punching bag for all kinds of awful shit. Them’s the rules! Check your contract and talk to your agent if you don’t like it.
That said, yeah, the Walkerton parents did that. Calling the cops didn’t help the situation, but that was not a thing Asher did.
Amber, stop being turned on by this, your boyfriend just got an emotional nutshot.
I don’t feel like that’s a “turned on” face.
It’s the second panel that had me think that.
I wouldn’t be surprised though – violence and sex are all intertwined up in her head. I’ve commented something along those lines before but I don’t remember where.
I mean, yesterday’s strip may or may not have been the hottest Walky’s ever been, but Amber’s face in the second panel reads more straight up shocked to me. I could see her having all kinds of reactions as she processes, though.
I can see all kinds of things too.
I read it more as “it was YOU and not ME who lost their temper / took action“, Amber not having to be a super hero and take care of everybody’s problems out of a need to prove herself…
“I’m not the only one with anger issues??”
I think she’s probably gonna mentally force parallels between her parents and the current situation.
We may yet hear of awful shit that Asher has gone through. Perhaps he didn’t change his ways as a result of spontaneous moral combustion, but actually went through a process. Perhaps he already got his just deserts.
Quick, punch him some more while he still deserves it!
I was joking around with a ‘the characters as actors’ thing. The new guy has to pay their dues. Hence the talk about agents and contracts.
Character wise, maybe. Weirder things have happened.
I can’t tell if that’s a disappointed face or a guilty one in panel 4, but I don’t think turned on is in the mix there
I was looking at panel 2 when I wrote that.
Yup, Asher can make the point I was trying to make for him in yesterday’s comment section all for himself.
Poor Amber is realizing people can be violent without being monsters like Blaine.
OR she’s thinking, “I’m poison. I’m so poison that I poisoned Walky by association and now he’s violent. The only way to stop it from growing is to distance myself.”
I think both of you are correct, and that they will also bang.
They are gonna BANG HARD.
Yeah, I was going to say something along the lines of “seconds until Amber grabs Walky and kisses him passionately… 9… 8…”
But yeah, I think you summed it up better with “They are gonna BANG HARD.”
I read it as (or at least I hope):
“You, someone I like, punched someone and I was using restraint and DIDN’T. Other people can get mad, and I can stay calm. Maybe I’m not evil after all”
Something along those lines.
Most people don’t bottle it up.
I read that more like her rationalising it in case Ruth found out about this whole thing… “I didn’t start it, Walky did, then it was self defence!”
Seems to me
You don’t want to talk about it
Seems to me
You just turn your pretty head and Walk Away…–The James Gang
Puuuurfect.
I’m in love with Asher
RIGHT?
Yeah, but it’s much easier to blame people who aren’t your parents. Even when one’s parents are shitty, you basically have Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to them.
I think Asher got in the more effective sucker punch.
Hey everyone, I haven’t been here for a week because I literally just got back from vacation an hour ago and was in a cabin with no internet or phone signal. Time to catch up with those crazy lovebirds Amber and Walky and their comical shenaniga-what the fuckity?!
TARDIS not working again, I presume?
I … I don’t know what my opinion of this is. On the one hand, Asher’s technically _right_.
On the other, he’s completely dodging responsibility.
Oh good, I’m not the only one who thinks “I was 13 and stupid” is a good excuse. That said, the next Walkerton family get-together is gonna be awkward.
It’s not an *excuse* per se, but it’s also not a reason to punch someone five years later for something they did as a kid, while they’re trying to apologize.
There’s a reason juvenile offenses don’t go on your permanent record.
They’re not automatically sealed in Indiana either.
What he said was barely an apology.
You don’t say that shit WHILE SMILING.
He didn’t apologize.
Also, yes, it is. His phone call caused his sister to go away for five years. I’d be punching the guy too.
He did, and he wasn’t even smiling while doing it.
And his phone call did not send Sal away, it just got her caught. Her parents made the choice to send her away.
Honestly, now I’m wondering, what trouble did Asher get in? What trouble did Sal get in from the police rather than her parents?
Was some of this crap supposed to be “rich kids being kids”, or presumed to be until Sal was exempted from that logic by her parents?
No he isn’t. He apologized for his wrongdoing, which, granted, was only words, but it was still acknowledgment. And it definitely wasn’t him that sent Sal away. As a first-time offender, and as a thirteen-year-old, she wouldn’t have got five years in juvie, even with the knife business.
There’s an important part here – Sal was a thirteen year old black kid. It is very possible she would have gotten five years in juvie.
Maybe, but I doubt it. Especially considering her white mom. Her rich white mom.
You have a lot more faith in America’s justice system with regards to black kids than I do.
Honestly, even as it stands, I’m guessing Linda leveraged the police’s incompetence (or what she framed as incompetence) in letting Amber grab the knife from them and stab Sal, and that’s the only reason she got a choice between boarding school and juvie.
A couple additions
1 – Are the Walkertons rich? I thought they were upper-middle class but not rich.
2 – Even the clerk being robbed told Sal to run because the local police would not think of her as a kid. Yeah, any confidence I had of the justice system in the area just got taken out back and shot.
I think it was said that they made enough money from their kids’ commercial stuff to live comfortably, but are not rich.
I don’t believe we’ve ever heard about Walky’s commercial stuff, but yeah, they’re clearly not hurting for money very hard.
The Walkertons are in the same circle as Billys folks, and the dean of the university – both very comfortably well off people with money to spare, and we know from the visit the walkertons regularly attend sports events and the like in a private box
they’re – at the very least – on the high end of middleclass, and quite possibly a lot higher
Walky had never been in private boxes before and asked his mom how they were allowed up there. Her answer was she used to be married to the Dean. That’s not a regular occurrence for them.
And while Walky has known Billie for a long time, they also went to the same elementary school – that doesn’t necessarily equate to having anywhere near the same income (and before anyone asks – Willis confirmed it was a public school). We haven’t seen them together before school age (they were five in their earliest chronological appearance together).
I mean, she’s very lightskinned.
Like, crazy lightskinned. Pretty sure she’s lighter than her brother, which makes the statement about her parents liking David more because he’s more “generically beige” kinda confusing to me.
Sal and Walky are drawn the same colour, but they’re visibly not white. Joyce knew off the bat, and the clerk, again, specifically, told her run because the cops are not safe in their area. “They’re not going to see YOU as a kid.”
Yeah. Bit of a tangent, but my guess is that Sal is wrong about why Linda resents her. I don’t think that it’s for being blacker than her brother, I think it’s for being a girl. Plus maybe she has them both tagged as “black”, and thinks that it’s unfair that Charles should get a son who is like him while she gets a daughter who is not like her.
But anyway, maternal preference for boys over their sisters is grotesque but super common.
I don’t think Willis is going for ‘nah, the racism is all in the black kid’s head’ in this storyline. Her dad throws dog whistles at her too, so it’s not just her mom. Add in everything with Marcie and oof.
@BBCC You’re probably right. I suck at this.
A good chunk of my predictions suck too. But Willis has seemed pretty good about writing about Sal’s parents so I’m hoping at least that it’s not going to end up with something else.
Sal got the black hair, Walky’s is naturally straighter. Sal straightens her hair now but we’ve seen it natural a few times.
She could have been dead before anyone had any idea who her mom is.
I’m not wanting to come down too hard on Asher (I was incredibly unaware of how present racism was in modern Canada at that age), but he did absolutely put her in way more danger than just juvie, let alone a short (or zero) sentence (assuming juvie keeps kids that long. afaik it’s not for profit like american prison, so they would want to get people who didn’t need their resources out. Maybe that’s why they went with boarding school, other than appearances)
(this is real far down, so to clarify, this is a reply to Barer Mender saying Sal’s white mom could get her out of trouble, and also their previous post ITT)
Boarding school gets used sometimes as an alternative for juvie, yes. So does therapy (the other thing Sal had to do post-robbery).
I meant more that Sal’s parents would have chosen it because boarding school might keep kids for longer periods of time.
Therapy at least makes sense, too bad it doesn’t sound like she ever had a decent therapist.
Longer than the court required I mean. Which would keep her out of Linda’s hair and somewhere she can’t easily damage the family reputation, rather than if the court said she could come home sooner (which also might have been moved earlier if she did well there).
I think she said she had the choice between being sent away or juvie. So as blameable as Linda is, this isn’t entirely the parents fault.
I think they’re both right. Asher was the catalyst that resulted in Sal being sent away. But I’m sure if their parents had tried, Sal wouldn’t have gone to either Juvie OR the boarding school
Sure about that? She threatened to kill another human being. Held a knife to his throat.
I’m not sure about us law but here, that would not be something she’d gotten out of easily.
Maybe make a gesture of apology to Sal — I dunno, top up her cafeteria account for a year’s worth of her favorite desert?
Asher’s responsibility is not to account for himself to Walky. He ought to contact Sal and ask her how to go about straightening things out with her: what amends she wants and when. He doesn’t have to answer to Walky at all.
Walky is horning in on something that is due to Sal, not for the first time.
Sal knows Asher’s at the University, and chooses not to contact him. Personally him not seeking her out would be the best.
No, he’s not. He’s literally NOT responsible for what happened to Sal. Sal’s parents did indeed do that. And Asher didn’t force her to hold a knife to Ethan’s throat either (nor did he cause Amber’s father to abuse her for years or any of the other awful shit that happened after the robbery).
But I agree that what he said is not an apology to Sal (which I do think he owes her, at the very, very least). It feels more like he was trying to get Walky upset, actually.
everything is just falling apart in this strip.
its tough to face the fact that your parents have been… less than good people. people who have actively hurt you and your aibling. but in many cases its an essential part of growing up to be able to recognize that. we are truly dumbing of age in here.
That seems to be a common theme in this comic. Joyce, Becky, Ethan, Amber, Joe, now Walky too
And IRL, Willis’s parents raised him fundamentalist. IMO that’s actively hurting your kid.
Asher is weirdly more self-aware than a lot of the cast.
Perhaps he’s been throigh some shit and been forced to face up to his faults. Perhaps it wasn’t yesterday for him, either. Perhaps dressing as a superhero and attacking Sal again isn’t the only path to self-awareness.
It’s safe to assume he did. People don’t change spontaneously. Change is hard and difficult and there usually is a very good reason for it if people change. And asher has changed. Something happened.
I’m mostly curious whether it has something to do with that robbery.
Asher is one of the few people that likely knew about the ugly side of Sal’s treatment other than Marcie.
Walky didn’t notice. Billie doesn’t let it affect her.
Walky played on it for shits a giggles.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/01-flyin-to-the-red/gofundme/
Walky’s “we’ll never get that back” warms my heart. I hate to see his pain, but the “we’ll” warms my heart. He values Sal and time with her.
And a fuck-a-doodle-doo to you too Asher.
(No, I don’t care if he’s technically right. Unresolved parental issues aside, he’s still dodging responsibility for his role in things.)
Man, if Sal finds out about this today – webcomic time, not actual time – then she is in for one hell of an emotional whiplash. Seriously, she’d go from silly love triangle antics with Malaya and Marcie to…I’m not sure what you call this. A broevelation?
“I’m gonna take that hit… Sexily.”
Let’s just say no one involved Did her any favors and it’s also kind of interesting how Ambers completely confused that Walky is the one that apeshit ballistic and not her.
Heh, he’s right. Most of it wasn’t prison. Well, not in the official meaning of it, anyway.
(I was wondering if he knew how to throw a punch, but as expected, he hurt his wrist)
My father used to say that if you’re ever called to the emergency room to set a broken jaw, you always find someone with a broken wrist in the next bed.
Public service announcement: don’t punch people in the head unless you are both wearing boxing gloves. Even then….
Hm, wonder why Asher calls him Walkerton rather than David.
How long has ‘Walky’ stuck around for? Even Billie calls him by it.
The only one we know for sure doesn’t call him Walky or Walkerton is Sal. She calls him ‘bro’ or ‘David’. Because it’s both their last names and it’d be weird.
Well and their parents too.
Man, a weird alternative universe where Sal is the one that goes by Walky and Walky goes by David instead.
Well, yeah, again with the ‘same last name, it’d be weird’ bit.
Ummm…. maybe because he’s only had contact with Sal? Who, as noted, would never refer to him as Walky.
She calls him ‘David’ though. I’d think if he was calling him the same as Sal, that’s what he’d call him.
Maybe Asher can’t remember Walky’s first name. All through the last three strips, he may have been thinking, ‘Oh man, what was this guy’s name? Steve? Donald? Cletus? I’m pretty sure it started with a D. Or an R…’, just racking his brain.
Or he never knew it. Is there anything that shows they’ve ever met before?
“Hey, that guy looks like an older version of Sal. Sal had a twin brother, soo…”
Cletus? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu_kJ4jEJ9A
He’s been “Walky” since he & Billie were little kids being babysat Ruth. Oh, wait, that’s the *other* universe, isn’t it? Okay, you got me; I’m not sure how long he’s had that nick, but it’s probably been roughly the same amount of time. Everyone in Elementary, Jr. High, and High School probably knew him as “Walky”.
I think Willis said in a Tumblr post that it’s the same in this universe too, just with a different babysitter.
https://dumbingofage.tumblr.com/post/180798851557/made-by-jade-so-walky-walkerton-and-billie
I spent a ridiculous amount of time looking for that on the wrong Tumblr.
Asher only knew him as Sal’s twin. He called him “the other Walkerton twin” when he recognized him.
It’s pretty common to call people by their last names
…
I just realized another interpretation of the second-to-last panel. I don’t think Asher intended it, but Willis may have:
“Your parents did” could mean that the all-around terrible treatment of Sal by her parents led to her trying to rob the store.
Point.
It did.
Sal was trying to get money to pay for Marcie’s surgery, and when Sal’s mom found her savings she took them.
It’s a good possibility that’s what he means in his defense. That said, if he’s going that hard on the fault spreading train for this direct sequence events, then he wasn’t actually sorry for his participation and his word salad was a platitude. Her mom being shitty made her desperate but he’s the one who invited her along and made her the fall girl. Her mom had limited ability to reduce consequences… maybe slightly more than the effort she put in… but as noted, putting a knife to someone’s throat makes the send away vs juvie den a good choice for most parents. That it was probably made to hide their shame versus what would benefit Sal is still a gross black mark.
I mean, even if it was fully court assigned, I have no doubt her parents could have found a closer boarding school (not necessarily within town, but day-trip able), possibly even a sister school of the one she did go to.
Yeah, but then Sal would still be friends with that hooligan Marcie who put her up to robbing a conscience store and be around to taint her golden child. This is for the best – like the money being taken away. Remove Sal from all the things making her so angry and maybe she’d be fixed. Side note: a lot of the casts parents want them to be repressed. Angry is in itself bad.
That’s sort of what I meant about it being a day trip though- Marcie, especially at 13, couldn’t easily get there, but they could have visited her (they could have visited her where she was too, but the more distance the easier to make excuses). I wonder if they even saw Sal on holidays ever.
I was in agreement that Linda was that gross. As BBCC said yesterday: not going to disagree that Linda deserves a punch.
Sorry, I didn’t read your whole post before replying (I thought I did, but I see now that I didn’t), so that was mostly re: keeping her from Marcie.
And yeah, because keeping them repressed means keeping them under your control (or the place you dumped them at’s control).
Okay. Asher’s last comment? Total dick.
Sure, Asher, that’s technically true, but if you were really that sorry for calling the cops, you wouldn’t be attempting to completely avoid all responsibility for the consequences of calling the cops. Sal’s parents sent her away, but he’s full of it if he thinks his actions didn’t help to escalate the situation that led to that outcome.
Frankly, Asher should be glad calling the cops didn’t end in him having a dead friend.
Srsly. I kinda wonder if people are extending Asher so much benefit of the doubt (that he’s really sorry) because we’re very hopeful people, because he’s drawn hot, or both.
It’s because people cannot conceive that calling the cops can objectively be a bad thing given the circs. They’re willing to grant that Asher was a douchenozzle but think his action in itself was justified, even necessary.
I think it’s because I’m hopeful people*. Asher is not my type: I go more for Dina, or Sal (I don’t like the smell of cigarettes, but sarcastic and stubborn gets my attention).
* Deep down, I reckon that Asher is Korean mob, and that Blaine works for his grandfather. But my clinical psychologist has told me to favour optimistic hypotheses.
Okay, that’s a terrifying hypothesis I hadn’t even thought of.
Lots of things make more sense now.
Was Sal actually a friend at that point?
He has some culpability but not sole culpability.
His point is still valid even as a deflection. They could have easily made her reform school a lot closer. Going out of state is most definitely a parental decision. Not encouraging David to keep in contact with his sister, not going to see her when visitors were allowed. Sal’s parents did there best to erase Sal during those 5 years.
Friend/associate/acquaintance/whatever. A dead Sal could very much have been the result here is my point.
I was curious if he had actually considered her a friend at that point more than anything.
True but there could have also been a dead/injured Ethan (accidental). Both his’ and Sal’s actions had some severe long term consequences. In Asher’s case there was an active malice to the phone call, and I do hold him to greater account for the possible and actual out comes, but not for all of it.
He is deflecting the blame, but part of the reason David is getting hit hard by this deflection is by how absolute his parents made that separation.
And right now I’m more pissed at David then I’m at present day Asher. I’m pissed at how he’s handling his guilt, how he’s avoiding a very tough conversation with his sister. How he’s involving someone who Sal made a choice not to seek out at college, as away to assuage his own guilt.
Asher of today … feeling very mixed about how much he’s aware, or allows himself to be aware, of the possible outcomes of that call.
Ah, I see. I can’t speak for Asher, but Walky seems to have thought they were friends: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-9-comic/04-vote-for-robin/mcnutt/
And sure she could have killed Ethan, but we were talking about Asher here, so I didn’t feel the need to bring it up.
I brought the possibility of Ethan being hurt or dead up because of your statment about how the call could have gone. It reminded me of how it was brought up by several people for Sal when we saw her holding Ethan hostage.
It felt similar with the focus on what could have happen vs what did happen. And in context of this being a past event to the people involved, I feel it’s what did happen that is more relevant in this case.
I get that and it’s not an unreasonable take, but when we’re weighing the morality of the act at the time it happened, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to weigh what could have happened. Asher couldn’t have known Sal would be (relatively) okay after calling the cops, much like he couldn’t have known she would take a hostage in response to the police showing up.
Oh, I have no doubt that he’d have come up with a complex rationalisation that explains why he has no personal responsibility whatsoever. People who cause these sorts of situations (such as SWATters) always do.
SWATters deserve to be SWATted.
Avoiding responsibility like apologizing?
I think he knows. He may not feel totally guilty for it, but he confessed it and apologized, which he didn’t have to, and he took the punch without retaliation and even said he’d give Walky that one. He does accept that what he did was wrong, and that his reasons (he was 13, and thought it would be funny… though his adult self acknowledges it wasn’t) were bad ones.
Sal also had the opportunity to escape… The shop owner even told her to run out the back door, but she panicked and chose to take Ethan hostage. That whole event was chock full of young people making bad choices that initially hurt others, but ultimately hurt themselves in the long run. From what Asher has said and done in the last few panels, I think it’s fair to say he’s grown up a lot too, I hope we get to see more of that fleshed out.
You know it’s obvious Walky has recently felt probably guilty about what happened to Sal for a number of reasons. Either for not taking the time to notice what she was going through or for having possible low key resentment towards her at first since he blamed Sal for making decisions that got them split up Without realizing that their family put her in a desperate situation to begin with.
Or pointing out to Linda that he was the “good one” and demanding cookies for it? Making out your twin sister to always be the “bad one” and then having your parents send her away for being bad might just possibly cause Walky to feel a bit of guilt.
I’ve learned that the most common traits of being Young and naive that some kids put their parents on a high pedestal and see them as being unquestionably right, So for a child when a parent deems someone as a bad person they take it face valuenand for most kids “Mother knows best” translates to “Mother always knows best.” Fortunately it’s common to grow out that train of thought when someone grows old enough to determine right from wrong on their own.
I wonder if Walky and Joyce could sit down and trade thoughts on them just now realizing how flawed their Mother’s are.
Plus – abusive family survival strategies. You pick them up early and it’s a lot of work (and often therapy) to change that. When you’re a little kid, whatever works to deflect abuse away from you gets reinforced.
Aha! The “your parents were the bad guys all along!” punch that walky needed.
I like the nuance at play here. Asher did something horrible and dangerous at 13 and got away with it. He did so by calling the cops on his accomplice when she decided to do a second robbery, yet he did so because he wanted to get away and thought it would be funny.
It was a logical, psychopathic decision and Asher got away Scott free. Meanwhile Sal got knifed in the hand, alienated even more from her family and sent away.
Asher might still be a rotten apple putting on a facade here. Or the might have genuinely grown as a person and simply doesn’t want to deal with his past. He knows he did something wrong and is apologizing for it, but doesn’t appreciate the full weight of his actions. He’s in a better place now. Assuming it’s genuine, he’s a beneficiary of white male privilege, and has grown into a better person within that cultural context.
He’s not white.
Now that’s funny
He’s whiter than black or Latino. There’s a whole hierarchy that for some reason sometimes puts Asians at the top.
Asians get saddled with being the “model minority”. It’s a special brand of weird racism in its own right, but it doesn’t involve getting incarcerated or shot.
Part of it is that when the laws forbidding Asian immigration into the states were finally repealed, the US immigration system purposely selected for well educated, middle class Asian families. Additionally, the other main source of Asian immigration was from the families of individuals who aided the US military in the 60s to 80s and refugees from conflicts during that same era. The result has been that Asian Americans have been held up as an “Ideal Minority” by certain movements in order to try to claim that the reason people of color don’t succeed in the US as often as white individuals is because of an inherent cultural issue instead of the system acting against them.
As a Chinese person living in the US, I can confirm we get dealt a pretty sweet minority stereotype. Our culture actually does shape us, but it has it’s own downsides. Those downsides just tend not to involve confronting authorities directly.
Honestly I can barely tell any difference in skin tone between Asher and Amber. If he’s black, my bad. If he’s Asian…maybe Pacific Islander? He looks South-European to me.
I would agree. Or middle-eastern Jewish – based on mostly on the name.
OTOH, I wouldn’t have pegged Billie as Asian either, so … art style, I guess.
East-Asians, right? In the UK, “Asian” actually usually means communities of Bangladeshi origin and they sure as hell don’t benefit from white privilege…
(Does “Asian” really only refer to China, Korea, maybe Vietnam in the US? Asia is really big. East Asia is geographically only a small part of it.)
Yeah, but vernacular race names don’t really tie directly to continental boundaries whatever logic would say.
Officially census wise it’s “people having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent”.
More commonly I’d say far east/south east asia. Because mostly we’re ignorantly judging by looks, rather than any actual knowledge of people’s background.
Or he’s just a pretty pale latinx person, since skin color alone isn’t a perfect arbiter (see: Billie). He’s not that much lighter than Marcie, is he?
Yes, and as you can imagine, Asian-Americans are typically not super happy to get used as a weapon to keep other people of colour down. Nor to deal with racist expectations, nor to have their difficulties/accomplishments erased, etc.
All that said, Asher still has privilege of not having to especially fear that the cops will shoot him, that’s likely what Falcon was getting at.
From what little research has been done about Asian people and police violence, it does look like Asian people have a higher rate than white people, but not as high as black, latino and/or indigenous people, no.
The other tricky part is “what do people define as being ‘Asian’?” Because usually when white people say “Asian”, they really mean “East Asians”, in particular people from China, Japan and Korea. But to the Asians themselves, we usually resent being lumped in altogether with all the other ethnicities (sometimes partly because we’re just as culturally diverse as countries in the EU, sometimes because of a weird racial pride/superiority complex). And then you have Asians like Indians, Pakistanis, or SE Asians who are just as Asian as we are, but because their skin colour tends to be darker, they get lumped in with the other “brown skins” that people sadly associate more with “foreigner terrorists” these days.
My theory from living in parts of very racist America: that statistic is true but if they report ethnicity of Asian then those shot probably look either middle eastern or Latina and not eastern Asian as Zaxared said. I’ve known some mixed South East Asian folks in my middle school years that we’re confused for some latinx flavor. Much to their and everyone else’s chagrin but cop profiling won’t shake that out.
“Sure I called the cops but I didn’t think they’d, like, arrest her or anything.”
“Yes I planned to commit armed robbery, but I didn’t think, like, law enforcement would respond!”
There was naiveté to spare all around on that one.
(hisses through teeth)
I mean…
Interesting. It appears that Asher was tracking what happened to Sal enough to know a bit about the aftermath.
I wonder how much Marcie was aware of Asher’s involvement and if she had any interaction with him shortly after the robberies.
It wouldn’t really be hard to piece two and two together on what happened. Someone ratted Sal out and the only people who would know she was doing another robbery were the ones who dropped her off at that second store.
I don’t think it was clear someone ratted Sal out. It could as easily have been an alarm at the store.
I doubt Sal knew. I doubt even Sal would have stayed quiet about the first robbery, knowing they’d set her up as the fall girl.
Think they are referring to Asher ratting on Sal by calling the cops. Don’t think they got anything out of Sal either – she stated she hates narcs. So she either stayed quiet or telling the truth made her disbelieved again because Asher wouldn’t lie (since he was the narc) and they just ignored her for the traitor. In the latter case, hating narcs because she knows what Asher did.
Right, he did that, but I don’t think it was clear to Sal or anyone at the time that he or anyone else had. There are other reasons for the cops showing up and she wouldn’t have necessarily jumped to conclusion that someone had.
Despite her hatred of narcs, I find it hard to believe she would have stayed quiet if she’d known they’d ratted her out. And the cops should have taken it seriously since it should have been obvious she didn’t pull the first job alone.
She did stay quiet during the parent teacher conference about Leland and her altercation. Could just be she was so used to systemic justice at the time she didn’t trust them to begin with?
*injustice. That was a doozy!
You can’t just go around dropping straight truths when we’re supposed to dislike you, dudester.
I’m reminded of two things.
• Lenny saying “Don’t truth me and I won’t truth you” in Mice and Men
• A quip that Gough Whitlam made when Billy McMahon started slinging mud in the 1972 Australian federal election campaign. “I’m very disappointed in the Prime Minister. I thought we had an understanding that he wouldn’t tell any lies about me and I wouldn’t tell the truth about him.”
Joyce and Walky, wrist injury buddies!
Walky: “I punched an asshole.”
Joyce: “Not now, Walky. I am slowly becoming an atheist.”
Yes, Walky and Sal’s parents are terrible parents, but you Asher are an asshole!
I think this is SUCH a timely comment for Asher to make in today’s comic, considering all the stuff people were blaming on him in yesterday’s comment section. Sure, acted like a giant asshole, but the bad stuff that happened to Sal really wasn’t his responsibility.
another punch please, for trying to downplay the significance of his actions.
(also hey all, i made a new email and changed my commenter name. i was previously pl0x.)
Yeah… Dude was or is an asshole, who cares, Walky needs to get out of his negation about his parents
Or… you know, walk away ASHER. He doesn’t have to make this into a stupid pissing contest of who-blinks-first.
Well, why wouldnt he do that?
The second rule is “never turn you back on someone who has already sucker-punched you once”.
Yeah, running is a good way to get out of a physical altercation butnif you’ve already been punched, a lot of survival mechanisms also scream “don’t turn your back!”
It’s a hard blow for Walky but do you know what will be worse? The realisation that the events of that night gave Walky’s parents the excuse they were looking for to finally get Sal out of their hair.
Meanwhile, Amber is dealing with the fact that she’s not the only one capable of violence when the social pressures get too much. When she sits down and realises just what happened to her that night and why and who is really to blame, then I think she’ll end up very much a different person.
Joyce/Amber double team up during the inevitable “All Bad Parents All The Time” invasion?
A lot of people are saying that Asher is dodging responsibility here, but I’m not so certain he is. He knows he had a part to play in what happened to Sal, and even if he isn’t willing to say it out loud, he is willing to let Walky have that punch. I don’t think he would allow that if he weren’t guilty about what happened,and in the end, he IS correct. Walky’s parents made the call to send Sal away, and that last bit really isn’t on him.
Aaaaand there it is. I knew that was coming, though I half expected it to come from Sal herself waaay down the line….
Welp, only one thing to do now, Walky…. Punch Linda in the mouth! 😀
And honestly?
She was obviously umder the influence of bad people and hafd made enemies with people who were casually hurting others.
Plus, (the possible perception I mean) the social stigma of having a deliquent child.
Was it…. was it really the wrong choice?
Regardless of motive.
Look, Asher needs to understand that him calling the cops made things much much worse (which he might given his reaction here), but he’s totally right.
Asher was an awful friend, but Sal’s parents are the ones that pushed her to that situation.
Her parent’s are obviously shit, but let’s not forget that in addition to calling the cops on her, he brought her into the gang in the first place. She had motivation to rob, thanks to her parent’s, but he gave the opportunity and the methods.
And then immediately ratted her out, in what looks more and more to me like a set up. Like it might have been the plan all along. Even if she hadn’t gone for the second robbery. Call the cops on her, so they find her with the knife and cash.
This. Linda is responsible for being awful in generic terms. In this situation specific situation? Asher did most of the leg work (besides Sal herself). He said sorry and then passed the blame game.
Did the parents make the call by being given a reason to get rid of Sal? Yeah.
Were you still the reason they had that reason in the first place? Also yeah.
He ain’t wrong, but he isn’t blameless either. So yeah Asher you still deserved the sucker punch. No matter how he slives it, Asher was PART of it, being part of the gang that encouraged Sal’s worse behavior makes him as culpable and deserving of blame as the parents. Now if Walky punches him again, then he’s going to just undermine everything and make it worse. Take what you can get, I somehow feel this chump isn’t going to take full responsibility for his actions even if you spell it out for him. He seems the type to only do the bare minimum and it comes off as mostly lip service. If he’s truly sorry for what he did, he’d ask Walky WHERE to find Sal and apologize in person.
Eh, YMMV but I’d much rather the people in my history who were involved in traumatic shit happening to me didn’t apologise in person, what with the part where that’d involve actually seeing them again.
He… has a point.
I dunno. Punching a guy after he apologizes is bad form. If we’re going to play the cause game, all of this could’ve been avoided by having parents be more supportive of Sal. Having parents who care just as much for poor noncitizens as they do about cultivating wealthy, powerful friends. Yeah, Asher could apologize to Sal, but A. he just found out she was here, and B. seems to be respecting her new life and privacy better than Walky is. But that’s just me.
You can’t take away 5 years of somebody’s life and just be like “lol sorry.” He absolutely deserved that
I think a lot of the dispute here comes from how seriously we take Asher’s apology. If you read it as sincere, the punch seems too much. If you read as “lol sorry”, then it’s almost an aggravating factor.
I’m in the he’s brushing it off camp.
We need Word of WIllis on that facial expression.
I think we’ll get more evidence soon.
IMO, the red flags are multiplying and we’re on the track to baddie. Just a smoother one than some others.
Asher didn’t take Sal away, he called the cops on her. The consequences that were doled out to Sal were the parents’ doing. And the blame for Sal’s desperation and decision to rob the store can be lain on Sal’s mom, Linda, for taking Sal’s money that she earned so she wouldn’t “waste” it on helping Marcie.
Asher also introduced her to crime, recruited her into his little gang, provided the weapon she tried to use in her robbery and set her up to take the fall for his crime.
Not to diminish Linda’s abuse or Sal’s own bad choices, but Asher played a big role here.
A possible mitigating factor might be that he was himself likely a junior member of that group and being pushed by the older ones into that, but he hasn’t brought that up in his defense, so …
I don’t see Asher as particularly wrong for calling the cops. To see it that way, people have to believe that there is some sort of juvenile Honor Among Thieves sacred bond that somehow trumps the law of the land. He was dumb to get into robberies and Sal was dumb to join up with him, that cancels out under Juvenile Delinquency.
I don’t believe Asher “made it worse” by calling the cops. They could reasonably have shown up at the same time anyway. That didn’t force Sal to take a hostage, she could have surrendered peacefully and that would have been that, no one would’ve been stabbed. The plan to rob anything was dumb. The plan to rob a place she hadn’t checked if it had bulletproof glass was super dumb. Doubling down on a lost situation by taking a hostage was super dumb.
Suppose the cops weren’t called by Asher or anyone else until a few minutes later, giving Sal time to slip away. What’s different? The clerk still has to file a report. They go to the cams, still busted. (No mask. Dumb.) Sal gets equally busted. Her parents equally send her away for five years.
Sal got stabbed in the hand because she took a hostage and Amber snapped. Asher didn’t teach her to take hostages. He didn’t teach her anything but being the lookout. He could have discouraged her from a life of crime at all, but again, 13. Not expected to have that level of wisdom.
Wrong: unlawful, untruthful, immoral, not going in a desired direction. He’s wrong because he also robbed. He’s wrong because he omitted his part in the robberies when ratting her out. He’s wrong because he admitted he called the cops because he thought it would be FUNNY (not the right right thing to do). He is wrong because he helped reach this direction. He hits every definition of wrong. Wrong is not related to being bad or the consequences that arise from being wrong.
Yes to the very dumb.
The only way this would have gone towards right in terms of his actions as in lawful/proper/moral behavior would be if he had called the cops due to a change in conscience, told them the full story including his involvement and corrected his behavior immediately.
Side note: I don’t even think laws equate to right or wrong in the strict sense except that we have them to prevent rights and wrongs. You’d be wrong to break the law but if that law caused harm (like returning run away slaves to their owners). Him following the letter in reporting a crime to avoid his own punishment from doing the same crime is him sill being an immoral little jerk due to inconsistency and omission.
I find this discussion really interesting as a philosophy nerd, because I’m noticing both Shane’s assertion and your response to it comes from two very different positions: specifically, what were the cause and effect of the actual situation, vs. what were Asher’s *intentions*.
Or, to put it another way, when it comes to measuring morality, what matters more, intentions or actions? If you can’t physically get into another person’s head and/or thoughts, can their intentions and motivations actually be said to matter at all?
If intentions/motivations DO matter, then why do they matter, and how would you have any way of knowing it without being able to be directly privy to their thoughts or if they told you directly? And even if they did a good deed with selfish intentions or a bad deed with righteous intent, does the intent matter more, or the deed itself along with its effects? In short, why do we care about what people’s intentions or conscience says, and why is the final arbiter of good/evil not on the effects of their actions?
I’m not gonna pretend to have an answer to any of those questions (though I do have my own opinions), but I find the discussion to be really interesting, regardless.
Intentions and impact both matter. If they didn’t, murder and manslaughter wouldn’t be two different charges. It’s the difference between accidentally stepping on someone’s foot and assaulting them by stamping on it on purpose. Intent matters because accidents exist and no-fault situations exist. And there is more than one way to, if not know 100%, reasonably guess at someone’s intentions. People who feel guilty tend to act differently than they normally do. People who have warped senses of right and wrong tend to demonstrate that before they get to the point of criminal charges. That’s also why evidence of things like planning ahead of time for a murder is more serious than spur of the moment murders. Again, intent and impact both matter – someone who feels that something they did for selfish reasons ended up doing good got lucky. That’s all. Desperation, luck, and accidents all exist and that makes it important to distinguish between someone being a douche and someone who, again, accidentally stepped on someone’s foot.
That makes sense from a legal perspective. Intention matters because accidents exist, and thus change the nature of crimes. I can buy that.
But what about for small day-to-day interactions, outside of criminality and just basic social interaction? Remember, I’m not talking about law but *morality* here, which I’m given to understand is at least somewhat subjective, at least in terms of small details–there are of course certain things that are universally right and wrong, like for example the dramatic cases of murder being wrong but defending oneself or someone else from harm is right.
I guess what I’m getting at is if somebody does something right for selfish reasons–like, say a guy gives a shitload of money to charity or builds a homeless shelter because it gives him good PR and not because it’s intrinsically right. Does the selfishness of his intention negate the good he’s doing in sheltering and feeding the poor?
To use another example; a man steals food from a small grocer who’s barely staying in business in a poor economy to feed his family. We would agree that it’s morally right that he looks after his family; does that negate the damage he does by stealing?
In these cases, which matters more, their actions or their intent?
Like I said, I’m a philosophy nerd, and the concept of morality as a construct (which as an atheist I believe it to be) intrigues me. Not the “why” it exists–without morality, I think the world would be a much shittier place–but more in terms of how it functions and why it functions the way that it does. Because sometimes I’ll see people adopt stances that aren’t really all that consistent from person to person or from moral code to moral code, and I’m trying to figure out why that is.
The other reason behind my questioning too is that I’m currently working on a personal project in trying to see if I can nail down my own personal moral code and thought experiment philosophies and try to write them explicitly as a consistent system of ethics–not just to put into practice, but also to skip the mess of trying to make myself understood to other people IRL and just having something I can refer to that makes it easier to refer to and explain (I’m not exactly a people person).
The truth is we can not know 100% all the results of every one of our actions before we make them. I don’t think for example if someone trying to rob a house accidentally gives a kidnapping victim a chance to escape they should be praised.
But I think the question to ask is, is this the expected outcome, were their hints that this might happen, even if you couldn’t guess what it would be this bad/good was some bad/good result being possible obvious.
Intentions matter because they effect the best way to discourage/encourage said behavior if nothing else.
If someone robs a grocery store because they don’t want their f ing family to starve, the best way to prevent future robbery is either to punish the entire family or make sure everyone can afford the basics.
If someone robs a grocery store because they have an addiction to stealing and give the food to their family to justify it to themselves after the fact, they need addiction help or to be pointed in the direction of stores with higher risk and higher reward which can take the hit.
Intent matters in non-criminal interactions too. Both intent and impact matter. Which matters more depends on the situation. Asher called the police to get their attention away from himself and because he thought it would be funny. This very easily could have gotten Sal shot by racist cops (even the clerk at the store told her to run). And severity matters. The CEO in your example getting good PR doesn’t hurt anybody. They get good PR and homeless people get housing and food. It’s a win-win.
The small grocer is definitely being screwed over, but people will starve to death if they are not fed.
I’m not sure there are any moral rules that can always apply for everything.Regardless, I hope you can find something that works for you.
We’re social animals. Figuring out the intentions and motivations of other people is what we do. It’s what we evolved these big brains for. Brushing all that off as “we can never really know” is a bullshit argument.
And one very often used to excuse being a complete asshole. 🙂
Plus, it’s a pretty convoluted chain that leads to this doing Sal any good – especially if, as I now suspect, Asher was just ratting her out for the first robbery, not knowing she was trying another.
That’s a very neurotypical stance. I think those of us who have difficulty reading the intentions of others might have a decent (or at the very least, an understandable) case for disagreement with your stance.
Also, your wording comes across as both hostile and presumptive. “bullshit argument,” followed by the implication that I am apparently “a complete asshole,” despite the fact that a.) I haven’t actually done anything to deserve the hostility, and b.) you literally know nothing about me yet you feel you can make such hard statements (or rather, implications) about my character. Gotta say, I kind of take an issue with that and would like to request as politely as possible that you back the hell off.
I’m sorry, that was harsh. I’m probably being a little too oversensitive; I just harbor a deep resentment of other people telling me who or what I am, which you probably weren’t trying to do there, so I should probably just chill.
Sorry again.
Probably me overreacting from running into it too many times – generally from guys justifying being assholes to women.
So, I’m sorry too.
But more broadly, even non-neurotypical people aren’t completely blind to intentions. In this case Asher’s even told us his motivations. That seems reasonable to take into account.
After someone pointed out yesterday that 1: Sal didn’t tell him she was going to rob a store so he may not have been even aware she was doing it, just trying to get the cops off his own ass by throwing her under the buss
and 2: Did so after telling her to keep a weapon she tried to give back
I can’t really buy anyone saying that ‘well he did the right thing’. If we knew for sure he knew she was robbing the place maybe that could be argued, but we don’t. She asked to be dropped off, as far as we can tell didn’t say anything about robbing the place, and he armed her and set cops after her.
Now, on the other hand I don’t think being a shitty kid means you still would be a shitty adult and he could be a mostly ok guy who has a very bad idea of what is appropriate to say to people, but that was an unbelievably shitty thing he did as a kid. And it feels weird seeing people try and act like it wasn’t.
Agreed. Though… his behavior of weaseling out (if that’s how you’re interpreting words and body language) seem to suggest he isn’t as good as he’s claiming to be now. If you’re in the “these expressions are all due to an awkward start so now he’s just being thrown off” camp then yeah, over reactions and still a chance to change all around. It was one hell of on awkward start. To me, his words are very minimizing, so maybe he is better than he was at 13 but he’s still gross.
This Asher gives me some strange Mike vibes. Hm.
And then Asher was thrown in jail for committing the greatest crime in the Dumbiverse: being reasonable.
*GASP*
A future slipshine will feature him and his longtime steady girlfriend… holding hands!
Okay, ouch. Asher did more damage in eight words than Walky did with a sucker punch to the face.
At least in this particular context. In the larger context of him calling the cops on Sal during the second robbery? He certainly didn’t _help_ the matter. But overall that’s harder to judge, as that entire issue is just layer upon layer of damage to Sal and Amber both.
So Asher – nice sorry but not sorry there. I see you minimizing anything and everything. Saying something truthful while omitting context is still sketchy and side steps any responsibility you were previously claiming.
Still hoping Walky is on the same journey as Joyce and this realization of how much Asher/Sal are right about their parents will sink in when he hits home. I also hope Walky tries to connect with Marcie by at least signing a hello and an acknowledgement of all the awful that happened to her. One part better brother, one part understanding and one part shaking off his ignorance bliss. If Walky confronts his parents do we have betting odds yet of them blaming his exposure to his sister for his slacking and anger problems?
I don’t see what you’re saying in that first part? What’s the “sorry-not-sorry” moment you’re talking about?
He apologized for ratting her out because it was funny/he was a dumb kid and then said the consequences she faced were all on Linda. Kind of ignores the part he helped and that he was part of the sequence where she was held responsible for stuff he did too.
No, not that the consequences that she faced, but the consequences Walky suffered. Walky was all “Wah! Wah! You sent my sister away from me!” And Asher was like “No. I did bad shit, but your parents did that.” It’s unspoken but heard that separating Walky from Sal was Linda’s objective, not Asher’s.
Asher’s plan was that Sal should get picked up for the first robbery, where she was a thirteen-year-ld look-out. Five years’ exile to Tennessee with not so much as a family visit was not a reasonably foreseeable result of that.
I definately think Asher is insensitive about this and too blunt but he isn’t wrong and I do think Walky’s anger is misplaced he is making the same mistake he did earlier shifting the issue from where it should be. He shifted his parents bias towards Sal down onto her “If you got better. Grades or had better friends and behaved better mom and dad wouldnt treat you as bad.” Instead of “They should treat you better because you’re their kid and deserve fair treatment.”
Here he shifting the blame for my sister suffered and was shipped away for five years because of you onto him. Asher was a jerk and display. I dont think he was being super malevolent because I dont think he knew the potential for escalation or the issue with Sals parents. He just knew hey she’s gonna probably rob this place if we call cops to stop her it makes us less likely to get into trouble and her folks will handle it. Walky is having a hard time realising how problematic his parents are.
To be fair, I don’t think people should owe sensitivity to someone who’s punched them in the face.
Yeah. Walky chose the terms for this. Asher even gave him a chance to walk away and suffer no retaliation.
This is entirely true he doesn’t owe sensitivity here. I mostly meant in general he’s handling this too bluntly. Most likely because it isn’t as personal to him it’s a stupid thing he did that had consequences he knows but isn’t dwelling on 5 years later especially since it seems to have worked out somewhat okay. Sal was taken out of a shitty situation and was punished harshly but not violently. WHen it could have been much much worse
Especially since he enabled the robbery in the first place – both bringing her into their own robbery and letting Sal keep the knife. If he did recognize that she was probably going to rob the place, it’s even more on him.
I’m beginning to suspect he didn’t realize that and was just setting the police on Sal for the first job – even if she hadn’t been actively robbing the place when they showed up, she’s still there with a big wad of cash and the knife. There’s a good chance she was being set up from the start.
Dang… that’s a great point. I hope the comic explores that
He didn’t give her the knife, his brother did. And we have no idea how she hooked up with the gang, in his only appearance before the panel where he dashes by yelling that the police are coming he’s obviously aware that she doesn’t like thievery since he lies that he bought the candybar to try to make it acceptable to her to be able to have a treat. For all we know she could have barged in on him demanding to be taught how to steal things so she could get her money back from Linda, and his brother was the one who overhead and went “If it’s money you’re after…”
And, as others have pointed out, she didn’t tell the others that she planned on robbing that place. He could have called the police assuming he was sending the ones nearby on a wild goose chase while they got away, and that the next day he’d get to laugh at Sal for getting a scare while she was buying a snack (hence the thinking it would be funny).
I’m not saying any of this is the case (hell, the candybar scene could just as easily be twisted the other way, and you could guess his motive was making sure the person who’d just made an obvious show of not buying a candybar would have it on herself if the person working there noticed whatever other stuff he stole), just that we still know way too little about what happened between Linda stealing that money and the robberies to make any assumptions.
It’s possible, I suppose.
Doesn’t work narratively, I think. His purpose in the candy scene was to establish him as the connection to the gang. The wild goose chase idea might have worked – until they suspected Sal, found the wad of cash and the knife. That’s actually what I think he might have intended.
It does look like you’re right about the brother being the one telling her to keep the knife though.
Yeah. Sal didn’t seem especially useful as a look-out. I reckon that Asher and his older confederates were using her as a patsy from the outset.
Asher is not blaming the older hoodlums, at least not in what he says to Walky.
True, but the sequence of events looks to be in reverse order to a lot of the commentariat. He didn’t show sensitivity/remorse which led to him being punched in the face. That doesn’t mean people deserve to be punched in the face for being brash, but most people would say this classified as an understandable reaction to the revelation even if it’s not justifiable. The latter is also being argued under catharsis, comic vs reality, trauma response, latent hurt, the fact his actions contributed to several people being put in a position where there was a greater risk for physical harm, and him still seeming to be smarmy during the whole interaction.
“Understandable, even if not justifiable” captures it quite well, I think.
I do hope Walky will eventually be able to face those who are actually responsible, though.
Feel like Amber is having a strange existential epiphany right now…
“People punch people…who aren’t Amazigirl…”
Somehow reminds me of Data…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttPMovbogZw&ab_channel=Jaku
“I am not more punchy than Walky…”
I dont see it mentioned yet’ so I’m curious: Do we know if Asher *knew* Sal needed the money (or money in general) to help Marcie. Cause if he called the cops on Sal knowing the motives she had behind needing the money’s that just makes his dodge of responsibility an extra dick move.
Very likely he did. The flashback I will link below shows him taking part in a conversation about Sal’s feelings of responsibility.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/01-flyin-to-the-red/asher/
All I can say is everyone has issues
Asher is, so far, a cipher. In a ’50s sitcom he’d’ve been sweet on Sal, have actually paid for the candy bar he offered her, and had some bizarre love-fueled rationalization for calling the cops on her. As far as “today” in the dumbiverse is concerned, he’s apologized for being a jerk as a kid, and not pounded the shit out of someone smaller who just sucker-punched him. Not really things expected from someone truly evil. IMHO, of course.
I propose the possibility of a Fowler-Nowitski scenario, where, despite everyone expecting an explosive confrontation when Asher and Sal meet, Sal hugs him and thanks him for keeping her from the consequences of a life of crime spanning more than 25 minutes.
And then, in a Slipshine strip, they fuck.
Shaw’s line about it to the contrary, I at least TRY to present myself as being a reasonable person. The recurring ad on the bottom of this site is pure evil: it presents a completely transparent window with just a “Close X” box visible to the right. (Completely offscreen on the phone I once used here, I think.) It blocks the “Post Comment” button on my laptop. I will, probably unreasonably, never patronize anything that’s advertised that way.