. . . This is actually a pretty decent argument to have. Especially since Ruth has been keeping clean vs Billie who has been cheating their deal. . If I am remembering what happened right at the least. It’s been a while.
Their original deal was they would both stop. Then it became a self-destructive pact where they both overindulged and were secretly together. Now Ruth is trying to recover while Billie refuses to acknowledge she has a problem but in doing so is continuously insensitive to Ruth not wanting to drink.
Yup. This has needed to happen for awhile. It’s going to be nasty and it might end their relationship, but it’s been the elephant in the room since Ruth got help.
They can’t go on like this. Something needs to change.
I’ve had a partner one with whom I’ve been though a lot together. It was a horrible relationship. It was a relief when it ended. We were focused on the outer problems, so we didn’t notice our inner problems until we had a moment to breathe-and to realise that we actually were a horrible couple. Our personalities don’t mix very well. We’re still friends. But having endured a lot together doesn’t automatically mean a relationship works in the everyday life.
Ruth? The recovering alcoholic whose parents were killed by a drunk driver and holds deep feelings of resentment for her alcoholism, which fuels her extreme depressive swings, but continues to be pressured by her alcoholic girlfriend into drinking? It’s her fault?
Were Billie *NOT* an alcoholic with severe issues needing treatment, putting the pressure of recovery on a new relationship would be a serious issue. You can’t build a serious new relationship and recover, IMHO. There’s too much pressure and guilt as well as anger through it [family of alcoholics, FYI].
But Billie IS someone who needs off the sauce herself so it’s a bit like saying, “Well if Joyce wasn’t a fundamentalist evangelical as well as the Ding Dong Whiteboard Bandit…”
Insisting that your partner not constantly try to undermine your sobriety is hardly an unfair expectation. Like this not be an unreasonable thing to ask of Billie even if she weren’t an alcoholic herself because it’s a shitty thing to do to your partner regardless.
when someone is trying to get sober, the right thing to do is to support them through that. the shitty thing to do is to try to get then back onto the habit they are trying to heal from… Billy is being a shitty partner by insisting that Ruth gets drunk
It absolutely would not be. Asking your partner to be RESPECTFUL of your needs and to stop undermining your recovery is not a heavy burden to put on them regardless of whether they have the same problem or not.
Coming from a family of alcoholics, if one of your partners is a social drinker and it is one of their hobbies, it’s a pretty huge change to impose and will destroy the relationship.
Solution: You need to stop having that person in your life.
That person can also go out and have social drinks with other friends and without you, not keep booze at home and just generally not throw temptation directly at the alcoholic.
The social drinker can still drink?? No one’s saying they need to stop drinking. What they need to do is stop offering drinks to the person saying “I don’t want to drink alcohol.”
This isn’t a riddle, this isn’t something that has multiple layers or anything. If someone says “I don’t want to drink alcohol” regardless of if they’re a recovering alcoholic or just someone that wants to remain sober, you don’t offer them alcohol or try to get them to drink. That’s it.
Ruth isn’t even asking Billie to stop drinking. She’s telling Billie to stop offering her alcohol. She is setting a boundary. This is no different from, say, Joyce telling Billie she doesn’t want to drink. She’s not making Billie conform to her needs, she’s just asking for a little bit of respect.
What you want would only work if Billie wasn’t an asshole. She’s a jerk who won’t want to change until she has no choice. You people keep insisting that it’s all going to be okay, but Billie has made zero effort to change. If Ruth wants to be okay she needs to dump Billie
Well, I guess it’s good we’ve come so far from “Ruth is an abusive monster and Billie her victim” that we’re now able to paint Billie as the monster who doesn’t deserve Ruth.
Ruth has actually made an effort to change and atone for her actions. Billie is not only actively working to regress any positive character development she’s experienced she’s also either intentionally trying to sabotage Ruth’s sobriety because Ruth recovering makes her feel less needed or she’s doing it unintentionally because she’s too self-absorbed to recognize how dangerous alcohol is to Ruth. Billie has kinda sucked a whole lot vis a vis her relationship with Ruth and it’s not unfair demonizing to think that Ruth deserves better than a girlfriend who disavows any meaningful relationship with her and undermines her sobriety even though she literally nearly drank herself to death.
Not saying Billie’s perfect or anything, just observing how it seems to be one extreme or the other. Billie’s certainly screwing up right now.
Ruth hit bottom before she started to her her shit together. Billie hasn’t done that yet.
Yep. Billie is probably not good for Ruth’s recovery so if things don’t change I hope the relationship ends and Ruth stays strong. Her life > college girlfriend.
But I’m rooting for Billie to come through even though I think it might take some unrealisticly fast character growth to make that happen.
I’m only worried that Ruth realizing how bad Billie is for her will cause her to regress, given the loss of “support”.
Fun story: About five years ago I started taking anti-depressants. After about two weeks I really started to feel their effect, I was really looking up. Then I got stood up on a date. Turns out meds can also operate on momentum and they stopped doing shit after that.
I want Ruth and Billie broken up. Billie just sucks as a person; I’ve dealt with enough people who “cared” but treated me like shit regardless to know that big vague intentions don’t mean a fucking thing if every moment-to-moment interaction with someone is still damaging.
I’m proud of Ruth. I find it really hard to break bad habits, and *I* mostly just struggle with not biting my nails. This is a way bigger deal and I’m proud of her for starting this argument because it needs to be had.
This is a long time coming, unfortunately. Ruth and Billie both have their points, in that relationships do take work every day. And that they’ve been through hell and high water and so they can continue to sail forward. But just going through some deep shit together doesn’t mean they don’t have to do any work.
And Billie’s been avoiding needing to work. She’s been avoiding the psychologist, avoiding kicking her alcoholism, and avoiding letting her new dorm people realize she loves Ruth. And seeing how just that morning she tried to get Ruth to go drinking along with complaining about her not wanting to go out… Billie, babe, if you want this to work, you really have to start putting in the work.
Billie puts in work for Ruth’s wellbeing in some aspects (reminding Ruth to take medication, comforting her that she won’t be forgotten, will fight anyone who upsets her) but does not in other major aspects (refuses to work on herself, insensitive to Ruth’s attempt to recover from alcoholism in part due to refusal to acknowledge it is a problem for herself).
Those are all amazing things to put in work for as well! I’d say it’s why the two have lasted up to this point. Billie does love Ruth, and she’s willing to battle Ruth’s demons as well as the dorm people, but it’s like that old adage. Sometimes your biggest enemy is yourself and Billie’s all too aware of that since she sees herself as poison.
I agree. Her biggest enemy in relationships is herself; her ego, her unwillingness to try to change, her unwillingness to accept something is wrong. She is simultaneously aware of it, and not, because she rejects and denies it where possible to maintain her ego.
Their relationship isn’t fragile to outside influences but is more fragile to internal ones.
Billie has a lot of pressure on her and it’s unfair to throw this entirely on her. Ironically, for all of the **** we give Forest Quad, it’s probably very emotionally healthy for her because it encourages her not to fall into self-hatred and loathing.
What helps Ruth’s recovery may not help Billie’s and their relationship may be too much pressure for both.
Denial isn’t emotionally healthy. Reinforcing the idea that her girlfriend is NOT her girlfriend and instead was some big to dominate an authority figure isn’t emotionally healthy. Having her asshole continuously licked to the point that someone like Lucy (who’s biggest crime is being a little annoying/overbearing at times) is being tossed to the wayside by said ass-lickers, is not emotionally healthy. It reeks of enabling. It is in fact one of the least healthy things in this comic. Were they actual friends of Billie that’d be one thing, but they aren’t. Their shiny view of Billie was threatening to crumble just because they learned she wears glasses. That isn’t emotionally healthy.
I guess they do help keep her from falling into self-hatred but you have to understand that it isn’t…in a healthy way. It’s like sticking your fingers in your ears and going “LALALALA ACTUALLY I’M THE BEST AT EVERYTHING I DO” without confronting the toxic aspects of Billie’s life. She shouldn’t feel like shit for being a flawed human being, no. She isn’t a drama hurricane and I felt for her when Alice came in and wrecked her self-esteem. But Forest Quad is bad for her.
Depending on what happens in the next few strips, you may be right on the money on your last point. Ruth’s recovery involves moving forward. Billie’s is living in the past. At some point, they’re gonna butt heads and they’ll have to make a decision.
It is not emotionally healthy to pretend your problems do not exist. Enabling someone’s worst habits is not helping them or emotionally healthy for them. Billie doesn’t hate herself any less at the end of the day because of it – she just doesn’t acknowledge it is something that exists which isn’t the same as being in a place where you don’t hate yourself.
I can also absolutely put it all on Billie because the source of the pressure is… herself! She’s the one setting these standards for herself! Ruth literally did not create or encourage any of it and all their current possible drama bombs, stem from Billie’s behaviour to maintain her ego and impress some random people in a dorm hall. Because Ruth has actually been trying to do better, to get better and from what we have seen, hasn’t really been hiding anything from Billie.
And while it is true that what helps one person’s recovery may not help another’s, the problem is that Billie is being insensitive to Ruth recovering and doesn’t even acknowledge that she should be trying to recover. You can’t say your ‘recovery’ is being hindered, when you aren’t even trying and are just insensitively stomping on someone else’s.
Initially I was just pointing out the irony of Ruth’s unironic comment about long term loyalty while wearing a Leafs shirt.
Then I added in the bit about the correct syntax because I was taught at an early age that getting such things wrong was a sign of inferior intellect (or breeding – these two were conflated pretty much). I did not intend it to be taken seriously. Officially it’s “Leafs” – it’s right there on the official merchandise shirt – and whether that’s “wrong” depends on one’s subjective view of the immutability (or not) of grammatical rules.
As an adult, I am rather more relaxed about such things than my teachers would be comfortable with. And Hey! I just ended a sentence with a preposition. Now to lovingly split an infinitive . . .
And here is where Ruth realizes she’s significantly more mature than Billie despite- or because of?- being in a worse mental place and we wind up having heart-ripping flashes between them, Walky and anyone he winds up interacting with, and possibly Joe and Joyce, huh.
She’s got a couple of years on her, I think, and some more pressing responsibilities in her little brother and her position. I don’t know that Billie really has anyone to let down in her mind if she bottoms out. Billie needs to have a moment of clarity on the substance abuse. (She kinda had one on some of her personality stuff, but even that’s a work in progress)
Billie being a party girl isn’t, by itself, a bad thing. But sadly her massive amount of self-loathing and lack of self-control means it takes her to a very dark place.
Places where her relationship with Ruth hurts.
Honestly, Forest Quad may be a place where she can get recovery because Billie drinks to not hate herself while she doesn’t hate herself with her fawning admirers.
And that’s why being a party girl is a bad thing for her individually. It lets her ignore the very real problems impacting her life, consequences be damned.
Billie is not a “party girl”*. She’s an alcoholic.
Or at least, she’s not just a party girl. I mean, she does occasionally go to parties.
But mostly, that’s not where she does her drinking. She drinks alone in her room in the dark. She goes to the bar in the morning instead of class. She suggests drinking to her recovering alcoholic girlfriend.
As far as I know there’s no indication she’s drinking any less now that she’s in Forest Quad. You might think their fawning would help with her self-loathing, but as much as she enjoys it, I’m not sure there’s any effect. Might even make it worse, if she’s feeling guilt over lying about Ruth to get the rush of admiration.
If anything putting Billie on this pedestal and forcing her to conform to this bizarro ideal of her they have in order for her to keep their positive regard is just going to do more damage because it’s not actually her they idolize it’s some imagined version of her who doesn’t wear glasses and is too cool to love her girlfriend and she’s fully aware of this.
Forest Quad is not encouraging her to recover remotely. It is just giving her more reasons to feel guilt, shame and like she has to maintain an image or she’s not good enough. Having admiring fans lets her ignore her problem, it doesn’t actually fix it and they could disappear at literally any moment when they get fixated on someone or something else. She can’t rely on unwarranted praise to enable her to pretend nothing is wrong forever.
YES! I am SO proud of Ruth for this. And if Billie doesn’t get it, her loss. Ruth deserves better than a girlfriend who wants to make her engage in destructive habits.
Ok alcoholic Jokes Aside Ruth’s got a point, you would think both of them would be on the same page here to ease up on the drinking after it nearly killed Ruth twice and in a since almost killed Billie with that car accident, not to mention Billie’s alcoholism has cost her a few friends and that precious cheerleader status of hers.
Billy has to stop at one point ask herself when enough is enough, because Ruth sure as hell has realised it.
Ouch! Ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, OUCH! Those are the heavy guns.
This is exactly what Billie has been afraid of since Ruth left the hospital. Ruth is doing better. She’s starting to see a future, however vaguely shaped. Billie however is just as crap as ever (in her own mind). Now Ruth will move on and leave her behind…
Excapt that Billie is living in a…I don’t know, alternative universe or dream world or something and eventually it’ll all come crashing down whereas Ruth is trying get better, is trying to face reality
If you expect to live a life free of expectations you should live alone in the wilderness because there are always expectations in any human relationship.
Sure but sometimes it’s shitty because you’re the problem and need to change not because they want you to change. The recovering alcoholic asking her girlfriend to stop undermining her sobriety is not the problem. You should absolutely change behaviours that are harmful to your partner. Hell, you should change behaviours that are harmful to people in general let alone the person you claim to actually care about.
Does it still count if she was too drunk to get on the wagon without the wagon “moving away from her”?
Pick your antecedent for “it”.
A) Falling off the wagon
B) Getting on the wagon
I honestly don’t think that Billie was trying to get Ruth to start drinking again here, it seems more like she was trying to be dismissive and change the topic.
But she’s in denial about her drinking problem and Ruth has had enough of her trying to avoid it. Possibly. We’ll see which direction this goes since it’s starting with “you’re trying to drag me down.”
In the next comic, Billie says that Ruth need the party and she, Billie, is fortunately a party girl. The obvious implication here is that Ruth should go drink with her. I’m not sure if that comic counts as a second attempt but, yeah. This certainly isn’t the first time Billie has brought up alcohol today.
Or subconsciously wants her to drink. So that either she feels better about her own drinking or things become more the way they were, with Ruth being more dependent on her.
She likely wasn’t trying to actually get her to, I honestly think she was just being insensitive to the fact Ruth is trying to stop because she refuses to acknowledge it is a problem for herself. But this isn’t the first time she has been insensitive today so it would start to get grating.
Fix your shit, Billie! I didn’t get invested in this relationship so you could wreck it! (I shout at a fictional character that was drawn months in advance.)
Like seriously Billie if you don’t cut this enabling shit out your going to end up putting Ruth in a position she doesn’t want to be in where she has you on the chopping block. You don’t want that and she doesn’t want that so make an effort.
Being someone who has had to struggle with alcoholism, especially due to growing up with an alcoholic as a parent, I definitely empathize with Ruth in that final panel. Sometimes it gets frustrating when people who should be thinking about your well-being try to get you to partake in a habit that has already proved to be incredibly dangerous to you, frustrating enough that you just have to be blunt about it and snap at them.
I think I’m getting there. Like most stuff like this, it’s always a struggle, but some medical issues do make the struggle a bit easier (nothing serious, just makes it a lot harder to drink).
Is that really a myth? I’d heard it gone through in what felt like an at least somewhat scientific way, something about creating micro fractures when punching hard stuff so they stitch back together in a denser form that allows you to punch harder stuff?
I hate that I called this as being what the Valentine’s Day fight would be over. I just hope that it leads to a better place cause right now these guys are one of my two favorite couples and Amber and Walky aren’t doing well either.
Valentine’s Day is in nine days, do we get to spend them all watching Billie get torn down a few pegs and hurl back some futile low blows at Ruth’s fragile mental state?
I assume there might be a few strips of the stuff other characters are doing in between now and the 14th, but at this point I’m betting the Valentine’s Day strip will be Billie and Ruth fighting over Billie’s denial of her alcoholism.
I know that we’re supposed to feel more sympathy for Ruth here and coming from a family of alcoholics, believe me, I do. However, a part of me does feel for Billie here.
You can’t just throw recovery into a relationship like this. Were Billie NOT someone who needed alcohol recovery, putting restrictions and changes on their relationship on her like this would be a very bad thing.
It’s a lot of responsibility without the hazards of a new rocky relationship.
I mean…life without mimosas? My wife would go insane.
Do note that, in the last panel, Ruth is saying “stop trying to get ME to drink”, not “us”. I’m sure she would prefer it if Billie got sober, too, but in this specific fight, she’s not trying to restrict Billie’s life; she’s only asking Billie to stop trying to include Ruth in that particular, alcohol-fuelled aspect of it.
Honestly, though, in a recovery period it’s the same thing. There’s also the fact that Billie doesn’t have the same “alcohol killed my parents and will kill me” thing Ruth does.
It doesn’t have the same connotations and Ruth in a clear headspace hates it.
Alcohol only didn’t kill Billie or someone else because of pure dumb luck. She totaled a car. Billie’s sobriety should quite frankly be court-mandated before she kills someone with her reckless disregard for the safety of others.
Losing the licence pretty thoroughly deals with the risk of her killing someone. Taking multiple tons of fast moving heavy machinery out of the equation is like that.
Ruth isn’t making or asking Billie to stop drinking, though Billie needs to do that. She’s telling Billie to stop encouraging HER to drink – which is a perfectly reasonable boundary for anybody to set.
“Stop trying to get me to drink” is NOT a lot of responsibility it’s basic consideration for your partner’s well being and respect for their wishes which are mandatory parts of any functional relationships. It’s not “putting restrictions and changes on their relationship” it’s defending her boundaries like do you think people just get to treat their romantic partners however they damn well please otherwise it’s “restrictive”?
It will be interesting. I haven’t been dating in a while and for many years, I’ve only shown interest in people who just don’t drink any alcohol. Now I’m considering to be less strict about that, but it would still be ” don’t drink wine when you want to kiss or make out with me” (because the smell reminds me oft definitely unsexy things) and “if you are more than a little tipsy nothing happens”. I wonder how that will play out.
It is.
But it’s unavoidable. You can’t have a relationship focused around drinking yourselves to death while one partner is trying to stop drinking.
Even if Billie wasn’t an alcoholic, Ruth can’t be partnered with someone who’s going to keep pushing her back to drinking – intentionally or otherwise. Maybe it’s unfair to try to make Billie change, but it’s dangerous for Ruth not to.
YOU ARE ALLOWED TO SET BOUNDARIES IN A RELATIONSHIP AND THESE ARE ALLOWED TO CHANGE AND MOVE OVER TIME. This isn’t throwing up random restrictions and changes, this is enforcing one single boundary.
Not mentioning alcohol every five seconds around a recovering alcoholic is not a lot of responsibility – it is basic consideration to their recovery. This is NOT harder on Billie than Ruth because it changes their dynamic. Relationships can’t function if they are inflexible to the needs and desires of each person changing over time.
Yes and if those boundaries are too much then the relationship should end. Billie and Ruth are changing as people and this is a very early stage in relationship. Honestly, Billie and ruth both need to get their headspaces clear before they can pursue a relationship with anyone.
I don’t say that because I ship Ruth/Carla either.
Maybe they do, but I think they still have a chance. I’m not really fond of the idea that people have to fix themselves in isolation before they’re capable of being in a romance. Nor, at the same time, of the idea that the romance will fix the problems.
Their relationship is based on the fact that they are codependent depressed alcoholics. Ending the relationship probably would help them fix themselves. Fixing themselves might also end the relationship since they don’t have anything else in common. I partly suspect Billie knows this and is trying to sabatage Ruth’s recovery so she’ll stay with her.
Something you should consider: Billie respects those same boundaries for other people. She does not offer alcohol to someone like Joyce, because she knows Joyce does not drink. She doesn’t try to pressure Joyce to drink, because she knows Joyce doesn’t want to. (She did fuck up bringing booze to Joyce’s party, but she still did not offer it to Joyce, knowing her position.)
Billie also did not offer booze as much as she’s doing right now. They were able to have entire moments before they started drinking. But she keeps offering booze to Ruth today. It’s not unreasonable to ask that she please stop that, and it’s not that hard for Billie to stop doing that, considering that’s not even asking Billie to stop drinking- which we know she can and will do on her own later. Asking for boundaries in a relationship is completely healthy behavior, and I don’t at all see what is too much about “stop offering me alcohol” when Billie does that for other people.
Yeah, I’m another person who thinks “Stop encouraging/nagging me to drink alcohol” is an entirely reasonable request in ANY relationship, regardless of whether anyone has drinking problems or not.
If you can’t respect *my* preferences or choices, we can’t be in a relationship. Simple.
I really don’t think Billie needs any sympathy here.
Its ironically an argument triggered by both of them feeling better-ish.
1. Ruth, obviously, is in one of the non-suicidal places of depression (the eye of the storm as my wife called it) and hoping her meds will help her when they kick in.
2. Billie has Forest Quad reinforcing her incredibly fragile self-esteem and sense that she’s not garbage.
Aaaaand this is the strip that finally got me to become a patron. Well, and I was scrolling through Willis’s Twitter feed and say the bonus strip preview. It made me think “I have a regular paycheck now and it’s a dollar a month!”
And there’s your problem: one of them is actually tyring to address her problems, while the other is papering over her problems and pretending that’s fine.
My grandmother is old enough to have difficulty processing the concept of a ‘big hearty meal’ being possibly unhealthy. Hers was a generation of wartime rationing and the like.
Billie you are being very inconsiderate… to the person you love. That is not a good sign for the supposedly indestructible relationship.
Also: Bone density does improve with use, because exercise helps fix calcium in the bones. It’s the reason archaeologists can make a pretty good guess what someone did for a living. So trying every day forever would strengthen… the bones… or a relationship or something?
The point isn’t that there aren’t ways to improve bones just that breaking your bones doesn’t actually make them stronger when they heal. That is itself a myth.
If you tried every day forever, that would give you strong relationship femurs and as we all know, you need femurs to live.
Actually, I think this is the point where we find out that Billie doesn’t really believe that she is an alcoholic or a bisexual. Because she’s a head cheerleader and things like that don’t happen to her or to those she cares about. This being mostly because the girls of Forest Hall have once again reinflated her ego.
We know full well Billie doesn’t think she’s bisexual. Those don’t exist outside of porn anyway.
I think you’re right about her still being in denial about being an alcoholic. I think she’s actually got a more serious problem with booze than Ruth does.
Ruth’s real problem is depression that she’s self-medicating with alcohol, but she’s been willing and able to stop drinking and detox, given a bit of external motivation.
Billie, I think, is alcoholic first and her other problems are secondary – though it’s likely all rooted in her parent’s neglect. At least her starting drinking in the first place.
Billie: no idea what your talking about! Heh heh
Me: woah, did not realize what Billie was up to, and that’s surprising considering her horrible intuition.
I’m reminded of Billie’s plan to drink only half a bottle of liquor and then cut down, only for Ruth to point out she had the same plan so they just ended up drinking a whole one.
You can’t halsies this sort of thing like drinking mimosas.
I’m not a recovering alcoholic, but I relate at least superficially to Ruth. I’ve chosen not to drink, and it’s incredibly frustrating when people don’t respect that. I’ve gotten it in the form of direct pressure from family (my dad trying to get me to “try a drink,” repeatedly, when I was still underage so that I would know what it’s like) and near strangers (the only time I’ve actually had a sip of alcohol because I was getting worried about how someone was going to react if I didn’t). And then indirectly from friends going like, “Really? You never drink? Not even a little? I make really good drinks.”
Being in college, Ruth already has to deal with social pressure around drinking. She really doesn’t more of that from Billie.
Ugh, yeah. I don’t drink either — never have, just don’t like the taste of alcohol — and it can be annoying to have to justify oneself in so many social situations.
Most of the people I am around accept it, though.
In fact, in certain situations I have found that I fared better than some of my friends who just wanted to drink a little. Whereas people mostly left me alone after I said I was a non-drinker, my light-drinker friends would continuously be urged to just have a litte more alcohol, and just a little more.
I think the way our society deals with alcohol is incredibly toxic at times.
Although I did once terribly offend a friend of mine (who knows I don’t drink) when I wouldn’t try his family’s self-distilled fruit brandy when everyone else had it.
I still don’t understand to this day — he knows I *never* drink, and usually it’s OK to politely decline things you don’t want to have.
Yeah, he can get over himself. My brother has literally made award winning beers (he’s the Director of Brewing at some beer company), and he gets that not everyone is going to drink them. Like, when he’s shared a beer he’s made with the family, he knows who to offer a glass, who just wants a sip, and who doesn’t want any. Though we’d probably have more to talk about if I did drink. Oh well.
I like how in the first and second panel Billies talking about the fragility of their relationship…I cant work out if Billie is really that oblivious or is just trying to overcompensate for what shes been saying at Firrst Quad
This has been a long time coming. I like the composition of this comic with the two panels doing close ups on each of their faces – it gives a stronger impression of Ruth glaring at Billie.
I feel bad for Ruth re this in general, but especially with Billie responding to ‘it’ll take work’ with dismissal (regardless of the alcohol part, which obviously wasn’t great on its own)
Loading ...
“Trying is hard! Let’s go get smashed”
“uh, we’ve been through this, and it kinda sucked, remember?”
“Remembering is hard! Let’s go get smashed”
“…”
So what are you drinking for Valentine’s day?
“Yes.”
-Billie, probably
Hell yeah Ruth!
Agreed! but my gut tells me Billie will react poorly.
My gut tells me that now is the perfect time for Lucy to jump out of that bush with a tray of Jello shots.
I like your gut. But I wouldn’t want to live there.
’tis a silly place
It’s only a model.
Shh!
(Someone had to do it.)
Well, if you hadn’t, I would have.
Preach, sister.
Yeah, it’s about time. Go, Ruth.
Dumbing of Age Book 9: We Can Just Keep Letting Alcohol Do All the Heavy Lifting
DOA9: Well, Whatever, You Get the Idea
DoA Book 9: I Worry, Every Other Day
DoA9: You Have To Keep Trying Every Day, Forever.
@Keulen Now put it to song. 😛
How was I able to live without that?
. . . This is actually a pretty decent argument to have. Especially since Ruth has been keeping clean vs Billie who has been cheating their deal. . If I am remembering what happened right at the least. It’s been a while.
I’m lretty sure they never renewed the deal after Billie broke it.
I don’t think Billie’s ever tried to quit this entire comic.
Their original deal was they would both stop. Then it became a self-destructive pact where they both overindulged and were secretly together. Now Ruth is trying to recover while Billie refuses to acknowledge she has a problem but in doing so is continuously insensitive to Ruth not wanting to drink.
Yup. This has needed to happen for awhile. It’s going to be nasty and it might end their relationship, but it’s been the elephant in the room since Ruth got help.
They can’t go on like this. Something needs to change.
I hope they find a way through it.
Oh hey, here’s the start of the impending Valentine’s Day crash.
It is not a sexy fight!
Yet.
Hopefully not the sort of crash that Ruth had in Roomies…
Nine.
Oh I like you.
Billie: “We’ve been through too much, our relationship is too strong to break!”
Billie’s alcoholism, navigating her foot directly towards her mouth at lightship speeds: “Hold your beer.”
Billie will hold your beer just long enough to drink it.
I’ve had a partner one with whom I’ve been though a lot together. It was a horrible relationship. It was a relief when it ended. We were focused on the outer problems, so we didn’t notice our inner problems until we had a moment to breathe-and to realise that we actually were a horrible couple. Our personalities don’t mix very well. We’re still friends. But having endured a lot together doesn’t automatically mean a relationship works in the everyday life.
Hahahahahaha glorious
I mean to the awesome joke, not the serious life drama. I’m glad you worked that stuff out tho!
Nice going, Ruth!!
Ruth? The recovering alcoholic whose parents were killed by a drunk driver and holds deep feelings of resentment for her alcoholism, which fuels her extreme depressive swings, but continues to be pressured by her alcoholic girlfriend into drinking? It’s her fault?
I believe that was meant as an encouraging ‘nice going’ rather than a sarcastic one.
Were Billie *NOT* an alcoholic with severe issues needing treatment, putting the pressure of recovery on a new relationship would be a serious issue. You can’t build a serious new relationship and recover, IMHO. There’s too much pressure and guilt as well as anger through it [family of alcoholics, FYI].
But Billie IS someone who needs off the sauce herself so it’s a bit like saying, “Well if Joyce wasn’t a fundamentalist evangelical as well as the Ding Dong Whiteboard Bandit…”
I cannot follow your comment. What?
I said Ruth’s insistence on Billie conforming to her needs would be really shitty if not for the fact Billie needs help with the exact same problem.
Insisting that your partner not constantly try to undermine your sobriety is hardly an unfair expectation. Like this not be an unreasonable thing to ask of Billie even if she weren’t an alcoholic herself because it’s a shitty thing to do to your partner regardless.
when someone is trying to get sober, the right thing to do is to support them through that. the shitty thing to do is to try to get then back onto the habit they are trying to heal from… Billy is being a shitty partner by insisting that Ruth gets drunk
It absolutely would not be. Asking your partner to be RESPECTFUL of your needs and to stop undermining your recovery is not a heavy burden to put on them regardless of whether they have the same problem or not.
Coming from a family of alcoholics, if one of your partners is a social drinker and it is one of their hobbies, it’s a pretty huge change to impose and will destroy the relationship.
Solution: You need to stop having that person in your life.
That person can also go out and have social drinks with other friends and without you, not keep booze at home and just generally not throw temptation directly at the alcoholic.
The social drinker can still drink?? No one’s saying they need to stop drinking. What they need to do is stop offering drinks to the person saying “I don’t want to drink alcohol.”
This isn’t a riddle, this isn’t something that has multiple layers or anything. If someone says “I don’t want to drink alcohol” regardless of if they’re a recovering alcoholic or just someone that wants to remain sober, you don’t offer them alcohol or try to get them to drink. That’s it.
Ruth isn’t even asking Billie to stop drinking. She’s telling Billie to stop offering her alcohol. She is setting a boundary. This is no different from, say, Joyce telling Billie she doesn’t want to drink. She’s not making Billie conform to her needs, she’s just asking for a little bit of respect.
What you want would only work if Billie wasn’t an asshole. She’s a jerk who won’t want to change until she has no choice. You people keep insisting that it’s all going to be okay, but Billie has made zero effort to change. If Ruth wants to be okay she needs to dump Billie
Well, I guess it’s good we’ve come so far from “Ruth is an abusive monster and Billie her victim” that we’re now able to paint Billie as the monster who doesn’t deserve Ruth.
Ruth has actually made an effort to change and atone for her actions. Billie is not only actively working to regress any positive character development she’s experienced she’s also either intentionally trying to sabotage Ruth’s sobriety because Ruth recovering makes her feel less needed or she’s doing it unintentionally because she’s too self-absorbed to recognize how dangerous alcohol is to Ruth. Billie has kinda sucked a whole lot vis a vis her relationship with Ruth and it’s not unfair demonizing to think that Ruth deserves better than a girlfriend who disavows any meaningful relationship with her and undermines her sobriety even though she literally nearly drank herself to death.
Not saying Billie’s perfect or anything, just observing how it seems to be one extreme or the other. Billie’s certainly screwing up right now.
Ruth hit bottom before she started to her her shit together. Billie hasn’t done that yet.
Again, insisting that your partner not constantly bug you to drink alcohol is not an unreasonable request in any relationship.
“But you’re so cute with those little bubbles drawn around your face!”
This is gonna be rough but it needs to happen.
And yeah, that was the exact wrong thing to say. I suspect that any shippers here are gonna need a hug so I am leaving this basket of them here.
You mean a basket of hugs, right? Because if I end up with another basket of shippers on my doorstep, I’m gonna develop a drinking problem of my own.
I mean a basket of hugs yes.
Thanks, I’m really worried about what’s gonna happen.
I ship Ruth with recovery more than I do with Billie so if Billie is going to continue to be a stubborn roadblock to that recovery she gotta go.
Yep. Billie is probably not good for Ruth’s recovery so if things don’t change I hope the relationship ends and Ruth stays strong. Her life > college girlfriend.
But I’m rooting for Billie to come through even though I think it might take some unrealisticly fast character growth to make that happen.
I’m only worried that Ruth realizing how bad Billie is for her will cause her to regress, given the loss of “support”.
Fun story: About five years ago I started taking anti-depressants. After about two weeks I really started to feel their effect, I was really looking up. Then I got stood up on a date. Turns out meds can also operate on momentum and they stopped doing shit after that.
I want Ruth and Billie broken up. Billie just sucks as a person; I’ve dealt with enough people who “cared” but treated me like shit regardless to know that big vague intentions don’t mean a fucking thing if every moment-to-moment interaction with someone is still damaging.
*plays “Broken Wings” on the hacked P.A. speaker*
Can’t we rig up a pair of country songs, a drinking one for Billie and a “I’m sorry and I’m on the wagon” ballad for Ruth?
Oh, right, Valentines.
Looks like Willis is getting a head’s start.
NOBODY ASKED FOR THAT, WILLIS.
I feel called out.
I love New Danny, but it’s not the right avatar for your spot-on comment. There must be a grumpy Sarah here somewhere.
I’m proud of Ruth. I find it really hard to break bad habits, and *I* mostly just struggle with not biting my nails. This is a way bigger deal and I’m proud of her for starting this argument because it needs to be had.
Well, a *conversation* needs to be had, but it might need to be an argument to get Billie to realize how serious it is, so…
This is a long time coming, unfortunately. Ruth and Billie both have their points, in that relationships do take work every day. And that they’ve been through hell and high water and so they can continue to sail forward. But just going through some deep shit together doesn’t mean they don’t have to do any work.
And Billie’s been avoiding needing to work. She’s been avoiding the psychologist, avoiding kicking her alcoholism, and avoiding letting her new dorm people realize she loves Ruth. And seeing how just that morning she tried to get Ruth to go drinking along with complaining about her not wanting to go out… Billie, babe, if you want this to work, you really have to start putting in the work.
Billie puts in work for Ruth’s wellbeing in some aspects (reminding Ruth to take medication, comforting her that she won’t be forgotten, will fight anyone who upsets her) but does not in other major aspects (refuses to work on herself, insensitive to Ruth’s attempt to recover from alcoholism in part due to refusal to acknowledge it is a problem for herself).
Those are all amazing things to put in work for as well! I’d say it’s why the two have lasted up to this point. Billie does love Ruth, and she’s willing to battle Ruth’s demons as well as the dorm people, but it’s like that old adage. Sometimes your biggest enemy is yourself and Billie’s all too aware of that since she sees herself as poison.
I agree. Her biggest enemy in relationships is herself; her ego, her unwillingness to try to change, her unwillingness to accept something is wrong. She is simultaneously aware of it, and not, because she rejects and denies it where possible to maintain her ego.
Their relationship isn’t fragile to outside influences but is more fragile to internal ones.
Billie has a lot of pressure on her and it’s unfair to throw this entirely on her. Ironically, for all of the **** we give Forest Quad, it’s probably very emotionally healthy for her because it encourages her not to fall into self-hatred and loathing.
What helps Ruth’s recovery may not help Billie’s and their relationship may be too much pressure for both.
Denial isn’t emotionally healthy. Reinforcing the idea that her girlfriend is NOT her girlfriend and instead was some big to dominate an authority figure isn’t emotionally healthy. Having her asshole continuously licked to the point that someone like Lucy (who’s biggest crime is being a little annoying/overbearing at times) is being tossed to the wayside by said ass-lickers, is not emotionally healthy. It reeks of enabling. It is in fact one of the least healthy things in this comic. Were they actual friends of Billie that’d be one thing, but they aren’t. Their shiny view of Billie was threatening to crumble just because they learned she wears glasses. That isn’t emotionally healthy.
I guess they do help keep her from falling into self-hatred but you have to understand that it isn’t…in a healthy way. It’s like sticking your fingers in your ears and going “LALALALA ACTUALLY I’M THE BEST AT EVERYTHING I DO” without confronting the toxic aspects of Billie’s life. She shouldn’t feel like shit for being a flawed human being, no. She isn’t a drama hurricane and I felt for her when Alice came in and wrecked her self-esteem. But Forest Quad is bad for her.
Depending on what happens in the next few strips, you may be right on the money on your last point. Ruth’s recovery involves moving forward. Billie’s is living in the past. At some point, they’re gonna butt heads and they’ll have to make a decision.
It is not emotionally healthy to pretend your problems do not exist. Enabling someone’s worst habits is not helping them or emotionally healthy for them. Billie doesn’t hate herself any less at the end of the day because of it – she just doesn’t acknowledge it is something that exists which isn’t the same as being in a place where you don’t hate yourself.
I can also absolutely put it all on Billie because the source of the pressure is… herself! She’s the one setting these standards for herself! Ruth literally did not create or encourage any of it and all their current possible drama bombs, stem from Billie’s behaviour to maintain her ego and impress some random people in a dorm hall. Because Ruth has actually been trying to do better, to get better and from what we have seen, hasn’t really been hiding anything from Billie.
And while it is true that what helps one person’s recovery may not help another’s, the problem is that Billie is being insensitive to Ruth recovering and doesn’t even acknowledge that she should be trying to recover. You can’t say your ‘recovery’ is being hindered, when you aren’t even trying and are just insensitively stomping on someone else’s.
In panel four, the Maple Leafs shirt is particularly apposite.
Maple Leaves?
As in, “Time to make like a maple and leave?”
What, is it the first round of the playoffs already?
Pretty sure it’s Leafs.
Yeah, sports team plurals can be relied on to be wrong.
Initially I was just pointing out the irony of Ruth’s unironic comment about long term loyalty while wearing a Leafs shirt.
Then I added in the bit about the correct syntax because I was taught at an early age that getting such things wrong was a sign of inferior intellect (or breeding – these two were conflated pretty much). I did not intend it to be taken seriously. Officially it’s “Leafs” – it’s right there on the official merchandise shirt – and whether that’s “wrong” depends on one’s subjective view of the immutability (or not) of grammatical rules.
As an adult, I am rather more relaxed about such things than my teachers would be comfortable with. And Hey! I just ended a sentence with a preposition. Now to lovingly split an infinitive . . .
And here is where Ruth realizes she’s significantly more mature than Billie despite- or because of?- being in a worse mental place and we wind up having heart-ripping flashes between them, Walky and anyone he winds up interacting with, and possibly Joe and Joyce, huh.
She’s got a couple of years on her, I think, and some more pressing responsibilities in her little brother and her position. I don’t know that Billie really has anyone to let down in her mind if she bottoms out. Billie needs to have a moment of clarity on the substance abuse. (She kinda had one on some of her personality stuff, but even that’s a work in progress)
Yeah, Ruth is 20 to Billie’s 18.
Forest Quad let Billie relapse into her old habits and bury her problems under a layer of unwarranted praise.
Billie being a party girl isn’t, by itself, a bad thing. But sadly her massive amount of self-loathing and lack of self-control means it takes her to a very dark place.
Places where her relationship with Ruth hurts.
Honestly, Forest Quad may be a place where she can get recovery because Billie drinks to not hate herself while she doesn’t hate herself with her fawning admirers.
And that’s why being a party girl is a bad thing for her individually. It lets her ignore the very real problems impacting her life, consequences be damned.
Billie is not a “party girl”*. She’s an alcoholic.
Or at least, she’s not just a party girl. I mean, she does occasionally go to parties.
But mostly, that’s not where she does her drinking. She drinks alone in her room in the dark. She goes to the bar in the morning instead of class. She suggests drinking to her recovering alcoholic girlfriend.
As far as I know there’s no indication she’s drinking any less now that she’s in Forest Quad. You might think their fawning would help with her self-loathing, but as much as she enjoys it, I’m not sure there’s any effect. Might even make it worse, if she’s feeling guilt over lying about Ruth to get the rush of admiration.
If anything putting Billie on this pedestal and forcing her to conform to this bizarro ideal of her they have in order for her to keep their positive regard is just going to do more damage because it’s not actually her they idolize it’s some imagined version of her who doesn’t wear glasses and is too cool to love her girlfriend and she’s fully aware of this.
Forest Quad is not encouraging her to recover remotely. It is just giving her more reasons to feel guilt, shame and like she has to maintain an image or she’s not good enough. Having admiring fans lets her ignore her problem, it doesn’t actually fix it and they could disappear at literally any moment when they get fixated on someone or something else. She can’t rely on unwarranted praise to enable her to pretend nothing is wrong forever.
And they encourage her to behavior that’s just going to build more guilt. Her denial of Ruth has to be eating at her inside.
YES! I am SO proud of Ruth for this. And if Billie doesn’t get it, her loss. Ruth deserves better than a girlfriend who wants to make her engage in destructive habits.
Ok alcoholic Jokes Aside Ruth’s got a point, you would think both of them would be on the same page here to ease up on the drinking after it nearly killed Ruth twice and in a since almost killed Billie with that car accident, not to mention Billie’s alcoholism has cost her a few friends and that precious cheerleader status of hers.
Billy has to stop at one point ask herself when enough is enough, because Ruth sure as hell has realised it.
Yay Ruth!
Valentine’s is coming early this year.
No, it’s not Valentine’s yet. DamnYouWillis is crueler than that.
They’ll fight for several days, then make up around Feb. 9 or 10, then go to movie night.
During movie night, on February 14th, Billie will gulp a Jello shot in front of Ruth.
And Ruth will say, “It’s over,” and mean it.
Or Ruth will find out how Billie has been demeaning her to her dorm mates.
I’m glad. I like Billie, I do, but Billie’s right to confront her and not just let it slide. It’s the only way this will get any better.
You don’t have to struggle every day, but like any chore required for clean, healthy living, you got to put in the effort sometime.
well, if *wanting* clean, healthy living doesn’t come naturally, the effort level may be a bit higher.
Ouch! Ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, OUCH! Those are the heavy guns.
This is exactly what Billie has been afraid of since Ruth left the hospital. Ruth is doing better. She’s starting to see a future, however vaguely shaped. Billie however is just as crap as ever (in her own mind). Now Ruth will move on and leave her behind…
For Ruth’s sake I hope she does
Honestly, Billie is in a better place than she was in Ruth’s dorm. Her sycopants really do help her feel better about herself. You know, not suicidal.
Both of them are better off and that’s causing their problem.
Excapt that Billie is living in a…I don’t know, alternative universe or dream world or something and eventually it’ll all come crashing down whereas Ruth is trying get better, is trying to face reality
Thing is, Billie sees their entire relationship as that dream world, and she fully believes it will come crashing down.
She sees no future for them, only a continued state of denial.
…which kinda worked as a foundation for a relationship when Ruth thought the same. Now, no so much
Yes, Billie dated Ruth with no expectations.
Now there are expectations.
If you expect to live a life free of expectations you should live alone in the wilderness because there are always expectations in any human relationship.
If you have a relationship where your partner expects you to change, you have a shitty relationship.
i feel like this platitude exists mostly to justify shitty behavior
Sure but sometimes it’s shitty because you’re the problem and need to change not because they want you to change. The recovering alcoholic asking her girlfriend to stop undermining her sobriety is not the problem. You should absolutely change behaviours that are harmful to your partner. Hell, you should change behaviours that are harmful to people in general let alone the person you claim to actually care about.
There’s truth in it in many cases. It’s crappy to view a partner as a “fixer-upper”, who you’ll mold to meet what you’re actually looking for.
But in this kind of case? Hell yeah.
OuR bOnD iSn’T tHaT fRaGiLe
yes, the codependency doesn’t grow more alarming with every relapse Billie.
Billie hasn’t relapsed.
She’s never quit in the first place.
attempts at getting Ruth to relapse really
Yup.
If Billie keeps falling off the wagon, sooner or later, she will find herself in a paddywagon.
Can’t fall off a wagon if you never got on it.
Does it still count if she was too drunk to get on the wagon without the wagon “moving away from her”?
Pick your antecedent for “it”.
A) Falling off the wagon
B) Getting on the wagon
Either way.
I honestly don’t think that Billie was trying to get Ruth to start drinking again here, it seems more like she was trying to be dismissive and change the topic.
But she’s in denial about her drinking problem and Ruth has had enough of her trying to avoid it. Possibly. We’ll see which direction this goes since it’s starting with “you’re trying to drag me down.”
I think this is the third time today that Billie has suggested alcohol to Ruth.
The first time Billie suggested alcohol was in this comic http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/02-but-the-sun-still-shines/waffles-2/ Ruth rejected the suggestion and they then started talking about her meds for the last three panels.
In the next comic, Billie says that Ruth need the party and she, Billie, is fortunately a party girl. The obvious implication here is that Ruth should go drink with her. I’m not sure if that comic counts as a second attempt but, yeah. This certainly isn’t the first time Billie has brought up alcohol today.
I think it’s more, simply, that Billie doesn’t intend to stop drinking and is surprised that Ruth does.
Or subconsciously wants her to drink. So that either she feels better about her own drinking or things become more the way they were, with Ruth being more dependent on her.
She likely wasn’t trying to actually get her to, I honestly think she was just being insensitive to the fact Ruth is trying to stop because she refuses to acknowledge it is a problem for herself. But this isn’t the first time she has been insensitive today so it would start to get grating.
And worse: tempting.
But yeah, I agree. I don’t think Billie is actively trying to drag Ruth down, she just doesn’t understand.
Fix your shit, Billie! I didn’t get invested in this relationship so you could wreck it! (I shout at a fictional character that was drawn months in advance.)
I was afraid the fight would be over Billie’s popularity at Foster, but now it’s this and I’m so happy
Like seriously Billie if you don’t cut this enabling shit out your going to end up putting Ruth in a position she doesn’t want to be in where she has you on the chopping block. You don’t want that and she doesn’t want that so make an effort.
Being someone who has had to struggle with alcoholism, especially due to growing up with an alcoholic as a parent, I definitely empathize with Ruth in that final panel. Sometimes it gets frustrating when people who should be thinking about your well-being try to get you to partake in a habit that has already proved to be incredibly dangerous to you, frustrating enough that you just have to be blunt about it and snap at them.
I’m glad that you are (hopefully) in a better place in life now.
I think I’m getting there. Like most stuff like this, it’s always a struggle, but some medical issues do make the struggle a bit easier (nothing serious, just makes it a lot harder to drink).
Is that really a myth? I’d heard it gone through in what felt like an at least somewhat scientific way, something about creating micro fractures when punching hard stuff so they stitch back together in a denser form that allows you to punch harder stuff?
good gravatar
They’re stronger at first, but eventually they’re no stronger than any of your other bones.
Poor Tai Lung did that for his Red Panda master! No wonder he’s pissed!
Plus Tigress punched ironwood trees until her nerves finally died.
I’m beginning to think Shi-Fu was a lacklustre parent.
Linda’s totem animal!
Hey, unlike Linda, Shi Fu TRIES to do better after both those failures blow up in his face.
It is muscles that heal stronger, not bones.
Billie, FFS.
I hate that I called this as being what the Valentine’s Day fight would be over. I just hope that it leads to a better place cause right now these guys are one of my two favorite couples and Amber and Walky aren’t doing well either.
Yay Ruth I’m so proud of you. I want you to continue to get better and Billie let this open your eyes
*Dramatically sets up folding chair to watch the ensuing fireworks*
Valentine’s Day is in nine days, do we get to spend them all watching Billie get torn down a few pegs and hurl back some futile low blows at Ruth’s fragile mental state?
*Eats popcorn in anticipation of the coming fireworks*
I assume there might be a few strips of the stuff other characters are doing in between now and the 14th, but at this point I’m betting the Valentine’s Day strip will be Billie and Ruth fighting over Billie’s denial of her alcoholism.
I know that we’re supposed to feel more sympathy for Ruth here and coming from a family of alcoholics, believe me, I do. However, a part of me does feel for Billie here.
You can’t just throw recovery into a relationship like this. Were Billie NOT someone who needed alcohol recovery, putting restrictions and changes on their relationship on her like this would be a very bad thing.
It’s a lot of responsibility without the hazards of a new rocky relationship.
I mean…life without mimosas? My wife would go insane.
Do note that, in the last panel, Ruth is saying “stop trying to get ME to drink”, not “us”. I’m sure she would prefer it if Billie got sober, too, but in this specific fight, she’s not trying to restrict Billie’s life; she’s only asking Billie to stop trying to include Ruth in that particular, alcohol-fuelled aspect of it.
Honestly, though, in a recovery period it’s the same thing. There’s also the fact that Billie doesn’t have the same “alcohol killed my parents and will kill me” thing Ruth does.
It doesn’t have the same connotations and Ruth in a clear headspace hates it.
Alcohol only didn’t kill Billie or someone else because of pure dumb luck. She totaled a car. Billie’s sobriety should quite frankly be court-mandated before she kills someone with her reckless disregard for the safety of others.
Although technically, Billie’s sobriety is legally mandated already since she’s not 21. Though that obviously hasn’t stopped her…
Losing the licence pretty thoroughly deals with the risk of her killing someone. Taking multiple tons of fast moving heavy machinery out of the equation is like that.
It may not have killed another person but it did kill her head cheerleader aspirations and seems to have cost her a good friendship too.
Ruth isn’t making or asking Billie to stop drinking, though Billie needs to do that. She’s telling Billie to stop encouraging HER to drink – which is a perfectly reasonable boundary for anybody to set.
I think it’s a doomed relationship unless Billie does decide to stop drinking.
“Stop trying to get me to drink” is NOT a lot of responsibility it’s basic consideration for your partner’s well being and respect for their wishes which are mandatory parts of any functional relationships. It’s not “putting restrictions and changes on their relationship” it’s defending her boundaries like do you think people just get to treat their romantic partners however they damn well please otherwise it’s “restrictive”?
A dry relationship is a very big boundry for some couples, non-alcoholic ones too.
That’s not even what Ruth is asking for.
It will be interesting. I haven’t been dating in a while and for many years, I’ve only shown interest in people who just don’t drink any alcohol. Now I’m considering to be less strict about that, but it would still be ” don’t drink wine when you want to kiss or make out with me” (because the smell reminds me oft definitely unsexy things) and “if you are more than a little tipsy nothing happens”. I wonder how that will play out.
Yeah, that’s just not right.
For an alcoholic in the early stages of recovery, there’s no “put that aside to focus on the relationship”. Ruth was drinking herself to death.
Exactly. This is a big change in their relationship.
It is.
But it’s unavoidable. You can’t have a relationship focused around drinking yourselves to death while one partner is trying to stop drinking.
Even if Billie wasn’t an alcoholic, Ruth can’t be partnered with someone who’s going to keep pushing her back to drinking – intentionally or otherwise. Maybe it’s unfair to try to make Billie change, but it’s dangerous for Ruth not to.
YOU ARE ALLOWED TO SET BOUNDARIES IN A RELATIONSHIP AND THESE ARE ALLOWED TO CHANGE AND MOVE OVER TIME. This isn’t throwing up random restrictions and changes, this is enforcing one single boundary.
Not mentioning alcohol every five seconds around a recovering alcoholic is not a lot of responsibility – it is basic consideration to their recovery. This is NOT harder on Billie than Ruth because it changes their dynamic. Relationships can’t function if they are inflexible to the needs and desires of each person changing over time.
Yes and if those boundaries are too much then the relationship should end. Billie and Ruth are changing as people and this is a very early stage in relationship. Honestly, Billie and ruth both need to get their headspaces clear before they can pursue a relationship with anyone.
I don’t say that because I ship Ruth/Carla either.
Maybe they do, but I think they still have a chance. I’m not really fond of the idea that people have to fix themselves in isolation before they’re capable of being in a romance. Nor, at the same time, of the idea that the romance will fix the problems.
Their relationship is based on the fact that they are codependent depressed alcoholics. Ending the relationship probably would help them fix themselves. Fixing themselves might also end the relationship since they don’t have anything else in common. I partly suspect Billie knows this and is trying to sabatage Ruth’s recovery so she’ll stay with her.
Something you should consider: Billie respects those same boundaries for other people. She does not offer alcohol to someone like Joyce, because she knows Joyce does not drink. She doesn’t try to pressure Joyce to drink, because she knows Joyce doesn’t want to. (She did fuck up bringing booze to Joyce’s party, but she still did not offer it to Joyce, knowing her position.)
Billie also did not offer booze as much as she’s doing right now. They were able to have entire moments before they started drinking. But she keeps offering booze to Ruth today. It’s not unreasonable to ask that she please stop that, and it’s not that hard for Billie to stop doing that, considering that’s not even asking Billie to stop drinking- which we know she can and will do on her own later. Asking for boundaries in a relationship is completely healthy behavior, and I don’t at all see what is too much about “stop offering me alcohol” when Billie does that for other people.
Yeah, I’m another person who thinks “Stop encouraging/nagging me to drink alcohol” is an entirely reasonable request in ANY relationship, regardless of whether anyone has drinking problems or not.
If you can’t respect *my* preferences or choices, we can’t be in a relationship. Simple.
I really don’t think Billie needs any sympathy here.
Though I don’t think Billie would be hitting “nagging” level – if there weren’t alcohol problems.
And so we have Billie and Ruth’s first real and meaningful argument that is not in some way triggered by their self-loathing.
Its ironically an argument triggered by both of them feeling better-ish.
1. Ruth, obviously, is in one of the non-suicidal places of depression (the eye of the storm as my wife called it) and hoping her meds will help her when they kick in.
2. Billie has Forest Quad reinforcing her incredibly fragile self-esteem and sense that she’s not garbage.
Willis, I’m going to start hating you forever now for making me understand how this likely impending breakup is important for Ruth’s well being.
Three…two…one…
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE.
The correct phrase is “Damn you, Willis.” It’s his Twitter handle and everything.
Oh dear, bad choice of words Billie.
Aaaaand this is the strip that finally got me to become a patron. Well, and I was scrolling through Willis’s Twitter feed and say the bonus strip preview. It made me think “I have a regular paycheck now and it’s a dollar a month!”
And there’s your problem: one of them is actually tyring to address her problems, while the other is papering over her problems and pretending that’s fine.
The interesting part will be whether Ruth is important enough to Billie that she’ll address her problems rather than risk losing her.
Fingers crossed~!
…that Billie doubles down and gets dumpedI feel like they are gonna break up over this thus foreshadowing and making her we are to strong to break up ironic.
I think so too. I wonder if it will be in the next few strips or something more dramatic?
Also works on people trying to push diabetics/no-salt diet to take “just a bite, you’ll see, it taste awesome”
My grandmother is old enough to have difficulty processing the concept of a ‘big hearty meal’ being possibly unhealthy. Hers was a generation of wartime rationing and the like.
Wait, people do this? That’s close to borderline assault.
Also happens with food allergies.
Well that relationship just came to an end. I don’t see how this ends well.
Go Ruth!
Billie you are being very inconsiderate… to the person you love. That is not a good sign for the supposedly indestructible relationship.
Also: Bone density does improve with use, because exercise helps fix calcium in the bones. It’s the reason archaeologists can make a pretty good guess what someone did for a living. So trying every day forever would strengthen… the bones… or a relationship or something?
of. OF a relationship. Goddamn it. I need to strengthen my proofreading bones or something.
The point isn’t that there aren’t ways to improve bones just that breaking your bones doesn’t actually make them stronger when they heal. That is itself a myth.
If you tried every day forever, that would give you strong relationship femurs and as we all know, you need femurs to live.
Awareded +1 for relationship femurs.
I mean, if nothing else Ruth should be able to bolster the relationship with others’ bones??
Though maybe I’m losing the metaphor a bit here. That’s possible too.
Next strip Billie probably gets incredibly defensive because that’s how Billie do when she’s in the wrong.
Actually, I think this is the point where we find out that Billie doesn’t really believe that she is an alcoholic or a bisexual. Because she’s a head cheerleader and things like that don’t happen to her or to those she cares about. This being mostly because the girls of Forest Hall have once again reinflated her ego.
We know full well Billie doesn’t think she’s bisexual. Those don’t exist outside of porn anyway.
I think you’re right about her still being in denial about being an alcoholic. I think she’s actually got a more serious problem with booze than Ruth does.
Ruth’s real problem is depression that she’s self-medicating with alcohol, but she’s been willing and able to stop drinking and detox, given a bit of external motivation.
Billie, I think, is alcoholic first and her other problems are secondary – though it’s likely all rooted in her parent’s neglect. At least her starting drinking in the first place.
Even chance she withdraws to Forest Quad, so she can hear all the sycophants tell her how awesome she is and how she could never be in the wrong.
There’s always the third option of “She gets super defensive and then withdraws to Forest Quad.”
Of course, the “Why not both?” approach.
If she does break up with Ruth it will be because she is assured by said sycophants that Ruth ‘isn’t worth it’.
Which is ironic since Billie is the one who isn’t worth Ruth jeopardizing her sobriety.
“CAN YOU PLEASE STOP TRYING TO GET ME TO DRINK?”
“But, I have to keep trying every day, forever!”
Billie: no idea what your talking about! Heh heh
Me: woah, did not realize what Billie was up to, and that’s surprising considering her horrible intuition.
Confound that Billlie! She drives me to drink!
I hate Joyce! and I hate Walky! And I hate Dorothy! Oh, Sal’s motorcycle! I will steal it and no one will notice it!
I’m reminded of Billie’s plan to drink only half a bottle of liquor and then cut down, only for Ruth to point out she had the same plan so they just ended up drinking a whole one.
You can’t halsies this sort of thing like drinking mimosas.
I hadn’t even noticed she was doing this until now. Dammit Billie.
I’m not a recovering alcoholic, but I relate at least superficially to Ruth. I’ve chosen not to drink, and it’s incredibly frustrating when people don’t respect that. I’ve gotten it in the form of direct pressure from family (my dad trying to get me to “try a drink,” repeatedly, when I was still underage so that I would know what it’s like) and near strangers (the only time I’ve actually had a sip of alcohol because I was getting worried about how someone was going to react if I didn’t). And then indirectly from friends going like, “Really? You never drink? Not even a little? I make really good drinks.”
Being in college, Ruth already has to deal with social pressure around drinking. She really doesn’t more of that from Billie.
Ugh, yeah. I don’t drink either — never have, just don’t like the taste of alcohol — and it can be annoying to have to justify oneself in so many social situations.
Most of the people I am around accept it, though.
In fact, in certain situations I have found that I fared better than some of my friends who just wanted to drink a little. Whereas people mostly left me alone after I said I was a non-drinker, my light-drinker friends would continuously be urged to just have a litte more alcohol, and just a little more.
I think the way our society deals with alcohol is incredibly toxic at times.
Although I did once terribly offend a friend of mine (who knows I don’t drink) when I wouldn’t try his family’s self-distilled fruit brandy when everyone else had it.
I still don’t understand to this day — he knows I *never* drink, and usually it’s OK to politely decline things you don’t want to have.
Yeah, he can get over himself. My brother has literally made award winning beers (he’s the Director of Brewing at some beer company), and he gets that not everyone is going to drink them. Like, when he’s shared a beer he’s made with the family, he knows who to offer a glass, who just wants a sip, and who doesn’t want any. Though we’d probably have more to talk about if I did drink. Oh well.
I like how in the first and second panel Billies talking about the fragility of their relationship…I cant work out if Billie is really that oblivious or is just trying to overcompensate for what shes been saying at Firrst Quad
This has been a long time coming. I like the composition of this comic with the two panels doing close ups on each of their faces – it gives a stronger impression of Ruth glaring at Billie.
Drinking on antidepressants is usually bad.
It was certainly the case for me
Yeah, medication + alcohol has a lot of potential for badness.
I feel bad for Ruth re this in general, but especially with Billie responding to ‘it’ll take work’ with dismissal (regardless of the alcohol part, which obviously wasn’t great on its own)