Move-in day was August 29th, and today is October 14th. DoA follows 2010’s calendar for its days of the week, but DoA isn’t a period piece so it’s always “this year” relative to the real world.
If you started reading in June 2012, you started with “Time Keeps On Slippin'”, which was Friday September 10 (and apropos to the discussion at hand).
To put this into further, even more convoluted perspective, there have been a total of thirty seven days covered in the series. Several days are missing. It’s essentially only been a month and a half. Dorothy and Walky got together on September 5th (first kiss). Dorothy told Walky she loved him September 23rd. They broke up on October 11th. Walky and Amber got together October 13th.
Basically a lot happens in a very short span of time!
I started reading a long time ago when the series was called “Roomies.” When I was in jr High and it had a crossover Halloween comic with slight freelance. Then it was called “Its Walky” (wiigii, a typo of woohoo from the transformers world’s worst site and Dalnet irc Days) then “shortpacked” around the time I was in college.
Now I’m way older and it’s called “dumbing of age” and I feel ashamed of any PSL I felt for these characters when I was younger than they are as I’ve gotten older than they are.
Still a fan though. My brother had the old roomies shirt about best friends and orgy supplies.
Y’know, Billie is bossy in a more “let me help you” way, and less in the “let me cross your boundaries however I like” way that Joyce has. Billie wants to give parts of herself away. Joyce wants people do do what’s right, and she’s the arbiter of that.
Not that Billie’s not problematic, too, of course. 😛
Hehe, I wasn’t expecting confirmation one way or another quite this fast, so I was pleasantly surprised! I’m glad Sal and Joyce didn’t leave it hanging.
There’s a few times this has happened. I’ve got to give it to Willis, he puts out these many strips and he still has plenty of room to surprise us with how fast or slow a breakthrough moment can come, though often, the ones that come quick are payoffs to something that already had been built towards.
Like, the Sal/Amber fight going so quickly into them making up and joining the roller derby SEEMS quick, but it’s more a payoff to Sal vs Marcie, which was a slow burn, plus obviously ages of Amber and Sal cat and mouse games prior to the fight.
I think Sal walked into the bathroom, and the light wasn’t on in there. (That’s the literal reason, of course. In terms of presentation it’s good way to juxtapose the two characters.)
It’s a common thing, building a shell to keep people out, whether she did it on purpose or not. It can be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy kind of thing, hating being misunderstood, but also not wanting to put yourself out there. It’s a shitty situation to find yourself in.
This is what I got out of it- she hates being misunderstood but directly refuses to answer questions about herself. I believe she even mentioned that she assumes people will try to make a project out of helping her, then give up sooner or later…
Amber said something similar, so there’s something else they have in common with each other.
I think she might’ve cultivated it defensively. It hurts less if you set people up to have low expectations of you and then you exceed them than if their expectations are high and you fall short.
What image is it she’s cultivated that she’s now rejecting? If you mean being rebellious and a biker, that’s not an image. Sal is both of those things. If you mean the constant glove wearing, there is a medical (and psychological) reason for that (and neither of those is the be all end all of what Sal’s problem is). That’s not an image thing.
I think the “aloof biker rebel” image isn’t entirely an act, but she’s used it as a defense mechanism to for so long that it’s become a tough habit to break.
Sal wants to make more friends, but she’s been burned so much that she’s afraid to let her guard down long enough to let anyone in (besides Marcie and maybe Danny).
It isn’t an act at all though. She doesn’t really want to be friends with people that suck-up to her/project on to her. She has remained politely nice with Joyce regardless but it has been Joyce’s own projections onto her that have kept Joyce at arm’s length. Her aloofness is often because she is being polite kind to people that she doesn’t want to offend but doesn’t really want to be that close to either.
She is friends with Marcie and Danny because neither of them project onto her. They don’t act like they *know* Sal better than Sal does. This is also why she cannot stand Malaya who projects her own imagining of Sal onto her all the damn time. And she hasn’t said she really wants more friends – Marcie said she should get more, but Sal herself often avoids opportunities to because too many people have tried to turn her into a ‘project’ to fix – part of it is defensive like when she avoided dinner with Dorothy and Walky.
Having to correct someone else’s image of you, and make them stop projecting, and getting them to see the real you, can take a lot of time and effort when you’re someone like Sal where you look cool so people are likely to assume a ton of things though. And Sal clearly doesn’t think it is worth it to do that for every person she meets. And it is fair for her to think so – she doesn’t really ‘owe’ anyone the emotional labour of doing that.
She hates being misunderstood genuinely, but she also doesn’t owe anyone the emotional labour of correcting people over every little thing when they are responsible for keeping their assumptions to themselves. So the problem isn’t really that it is a defense mechanism or that she is afraid of letting people know of her softer sides, it is that she has to try to get people past their initial assumptions, putting in effort on her own part, when they may just turn around and try to ‘fix’ her or ‘change’ her and she has found that to be a fruitless endeavor before. Finding the motivation to keep *trying* is hard for her, especially when almost no one really asks her anything about herself that isn’t potentially painful.
Yeah, the two people Sal’s called her friends on screen are both people who let Sal be Sal. Marcie’s known her since they were tiny and was there for all the rough stuff, and Danny is really good at being supportive and not voicing much, if any, of the things he speculates about her.
I think that’s precisely the point and why she’s getting teary-eyed? She built her personality, she made it a brand and enjoyed being recognised by it, as it gave her validation she was not obtaining in any other way… but it eventually became a prison.
The letter F will appear in a word balloon 10 years from now. The U will appear a week later. The C and the K, being part of the same sound, will appear a couple days apart about a week after that.
I think it might be that what Joyce said struck a chord with her, and so she’s tearing up. Like, Sal’s been able to open up to Danny, and to an extent, to Amber a bit, but this is the first time she’s had someone who understood she was coming from quite this way.
Sal said she liked Joyce more post-Ross, that she felt more “real”, so I feel like Sal likely does believe Joyce means everything she says here, and that might be some really needed validation for Sal, someone seeing what she’s saying and feeling it, too.
Oh, dang, this made me tear up a little when I first read it.
It’s a lot of self-awareness from Joyce, acknowledging the growth she’s going through and how scary it can be, and I just find that really impressive. And maybe a little out of nowhere, given how she’s been a bit of a hyperactive jerk the rest of the storyline so far, but still. I’m mostly just touched by the sincerity of it all!
I’m not sure how how AG is going to work now. If she will show up less because Amber doesn’t need her as much? That wouldn’t be how it would work in real life, but I dunno. To go from an integrated personality with compartmentalized specialization to actual disassociation isn’t how it works in reality, though it works for story well enough, which is what is important. Where Willis goes with it will be somewhere interesting, I’m sure, and as readers that all we can ask.
Stressful situations can absolutely result in integrated personalities splitting off. For a long time Amber and AG were semi-integrated and lately it seems like they’ve fully split and no longer share memories.
True, but there’s been some good, too. She potentially has made a couple of new friends in Ethan and Amber, she’s made major progress on making up with Marcie, and she got to bury some demons in the process. She’s got to be feeling raw nerved, but it hasn’t all been bad, I hope.
My favorite fictional narrative is the (slow, painful, poignant) transition from innocence to experience. Specially the moment when a character realizes retrospectively that something has happened and it means they’ll never be the same. DoA is particularly rewarding for me because it’s so full of these moments. Panels 5 and 6 here should go in the Hall of Fame.
This strip speaks to me a lot. Everyone tries to pigeonhole you for their own convenience… and at first, you DO think it’s nice that people are remembering things about you… until you realize the “you” they’re remembering doesn’t match up with who you really are anymore. (Or maybe it never did.) Sometimes you just wake up one day and realize how much you’re changing, and it’s intimidating, and you’re scared of people’s reactions, or maybe you’re scared of finding out who you really are…
I was known as the goody-goody Christian girl who didn’t ever swear, once upon a time. People still think of me that way, no matter what I say. Now I have blue hair. I haven’t been to church in months and I feel freer that way, and that fact scares me. I swear, like, a lot (even if I still hide it from my parents even in my mid-20s). I’m not a goody-goody.
I’m not even a girl. Though… I haven’t actually told anyone that part, aside from my spouse. Honestly, it’s a little scary even saying it here when all you know is a username and an icon, hahaha…
I’m sorry, this comment got WAY away from me. I meant to just talk about how emotionally true this strip feels and how I love this moment between these two characters that I’ve grown to care about, and now I’m kinda crying at my keyboard like a weirdo. So… sorry about that? Take it as a testament to how DoA makes us all feel feelings a lot, I guess? >///////>
You’re welcome. This isn’t on the same level, but I’ve had a lot of revelations this year, myself, like realizing I’m on the autism spectrum, and what that’s meant for how I see myself, so I am highly empathetic with having to redefine who you are, or I guess more accurately, seeing what was always there, just in a new light, you know?
I totally get you. (I’m actually somewhere on the spectrum too, and I remember having to get used to that idea a couple years back. So I’m rooting for you too!)
it’s felt like seeing so many moments from my life, looking back, like from another camera angle. Such a “wait, so that’s why…” thing.
and thanks, that means a lot to me.
I had that moment when I was eighteen and googled my sensory issues, only to find I was on the spectrum. It explained so much. Unfortunately it didn’t come with a guide so to this day I’m still figuring things out. XD
As someone who’s only really been “out” (for want of a better word) as autistic since about March 2017*, despite being diagnosed in grade school, I know the exact sort of feeling you mean. It’s like things sort of start lining up in a way, and you can finally make sense of certain things you did or reactions you got from people. I hope your experience is as enlightening, or at least more positive than not.
*Guess which movie came out that month to help? You might even be able to pinpoint the exact day and hour, if you’re feeling froggy.
So my dad casually mentioned a few weeks ago that I probably have ADHD. I’m in my mid-30s. I can’t help but feel that this information may have been helpful sooner…
I have yet to unpack this and work out if I agree it fits and if so what it means for me, let alone other people. Including my two children… (The topic came up because he was a bit concerned about the 4 year old misunderstanding/missing instructions coz she was busy having fun doing her own thing, and missing the reasoning behind it and trying to find better ways to achieve the same goals (in dance class… “of course I can touch my toes, that’s easy” *squats* type things). She just turned 4 a few months ago. Both her parents are ideas-y people. It kinda sounds like an enthusiastic, happy, confident kiddo being eager to help the teacher by showing her better ways to me (and very funny)! But if my understanding of “normal” is off, could I be missing Signs?)
…Yeah. As a trans guy who’s been slowly trying not to be terrified of any kind of self-expression for about 15 years now (since I came out to myself), this has put into feelings an emotion/impulse I’ve never understood until now.
What if I’m not who anyone thinks I am and they never stop thinking of me as who I used to be. Right next to, what if they do see who I really am and get violent and reject me.
It’s odd how this comic has made me relate to such a wide variety of people.
And yeah… it’s a really weird emotion. And one that I didn’t really think about in the context of “other people feel this too” until this strip and this comment section tonight. But I’m cheering for you (hear that irritatingly high-pitched voice cheering in the distance? that would be me), and I hope 2019 brings us nothing but people who see who we really are and love us for it.
Honestly? Thanks for sharing! And I just rewrote like twelve different ways of saying “I can relate” because I’m scared I’ll come off as rude, or stupid, or something, so, uh, suffice to say I can relate at least a little >.>
Honest self expression can be so incredibly, frustratingly daunting. I don’t have a ton of experience at it yet, but I’m glad to say it’s gotten a little easier with practice, and that it’s something I need to try more often. I really hope it continues to get easier for you, too- wherever you choose to try it!
You didn’t come off as rude or stupid at all. I’m so glad to hear that other people can relate, honestly. I felt a little silly the split-second after I posted it, but now I feel really happy.
This was very well written, and a nice coming out.
At “I’m not even a girl” i groked, but its a great line. I genuinely laughed out loud ( with you and for you, at your clever reveal. Not at you)
Keep having the courage to change, and im sure people wi!l see you as the funny thoughtful guy inside, you already are.
And Keep working on this ( your comment ). With a little work and length, this could end up as an award-winning coming out essay. Or at least internet viral.
I… must… give the impression…
That I have the answers for eeeeverything…
You… were… so disappointed to see me unravel so eaaasilyyyy…
It’s only change…
It’s only eeeeev-ry-thiiiiing IIII know…
Its only change…
I’m only chaaanging…
La da, la da…
La da da da da daa la da la daaa daaaa…
La da la da la da da da da daaa…
La da la da da la da da daaaaa…
You… want… something’s that constant…
And I only wanted to beee meee…
But… watch… even the stars above…
Things that seem still are still chaaaangiiiing…
Because that’s basically what Sal was describing yesterday. People would react weird to her changing because they don’t see her as a person so much as a superficial caricature of one. A ghost of her own past self instead of a living person who grows and changes over time.
Joyce understood what Sal meant because she’s experienced something similar
I can relate to people expecting you to be a certain way, but being bothered when they’re shocked or disappointed that you don’t live up to those expectations is utterly alien. Given the number of people I’ve observed desperately seeking approval and acceptance over the years, I’m probably the odd man out in that regard. In any case, it’s nice to see Sal and Joyce bonding.
Purely FWIW, my personal idea is that she’ll end up as a school teacher because she doesn’t want anyone else to get to adulthood as woefully unprepared as she did. One thing that I suspect will carry over from Willis’s real life is I suspect that she’ll have long since cut off all contact with her mother and her relationship with her father will never be anything other than strained
Joyce’s father’s reactions have been a mixed bag. I’m hoping he can grow and accept the woman Joyce is becoming — the potential is there. Things could go either way, though. Jocylene, and the family’s reaction to her once she comes out, could be the determining factor.
Daaaaaaaaaang. I’m so proud of Joyce. After Sal lashes out of her, her first instinct is to understand and apologize rather than lash back or slink away.
And what she’s saying is extremely poignant. Both Joyce and Sal have used their pesonas as shields, but now when they try to change, they become a burden.
Jokes about Becky aside, she WAS in similar box as Joyce (not exactly the same – she was the Walky of the gang – but she still belonged to the same set). Her constant reminder that GUESS WHAT, SHE’S A LESBIAN, is a deliberate – successful – attempt to break out of that box.
Oh, and something else: Sal washing her hands mirrors the way Joyce rubs her right wrist when she’s under some kind of stress. The two of them really are more alike than I think either of them are ready to acknowledge just yet.
I suspected after i wrote it, you did write. You have good timing.
( stab in the dark? Jewish at all? Fan of Jewish comedians. I suppose it doesn’t matter, its so deep in our popculture dna. There was a certain lilt to Yiddish, not just in rhythm but pitch and emotional tone, sentences riding in pitch, intensity; then falling releasing. But that’s another story )
You should invite your church to a gender reveal party . I would go. ( shock you are prgnant , relief you a re not, then : Suprise: Blue BalloonS. ) film on Youtube with a voice over.
Or maybe don’t do that.( What am i saying, you are bad boy who swears like s sailor trying to shed good Christian Girl image? There s no way i could talk you out of my terrible ideas. )
Did you ever see John Waters “crybaby” with Johnny Depp?. Theres this scene near the end ….
( Although Pecker has him beat for poignant sincerity )
Ok i have been a bad influence enough for one night.
(Sorry, just now saw this. Even bad boys have to go to sleep eventually.)
Not Jewish myself, but there’s some amazing Jewish comedians out there so I take that as a huge compliment.
Haha, if I did invite everyone to a party, they’d just end up way disappointed that I *wasn’t* pregnant, before I got to the actual announcement. (Church people… especially in the middle of the Bible belt… are weird. And sorta scary. Not sure I’d ever have the guts to say something so important when surrounded by so many of them, but the mental image is hilarious.)
I haven’t actually seen that movie, but I’ll add it to my to-watch list, I guess!
Your welcome .
Crt baby is a farce about the sensitive Badboy Trope.
Pecker is about “outsider art” objectification and gave us such linez as “im not gay, im TrAde” , and taught Americans what Teabagging meant. Must see.
I love this – not only is it showing the character growth of these two, but highlighting how painful it is that these changes aren’t recognized by those around you.
That would have been a very easy place for joystick just exit. She stayed with Sal and spoke comforting words. May be the most Christ-like thing she has done in the comic.
That said, it can be used as camouflage down the road. I’m very extroverted at work, talking to everyone, and when in the backroom I play my very eclectic phone music loudly. When I want to get away from something I just stay quiet and put the radio on a country station and people assume I’m not there even in plain sight. Weaponizing how you’re pigeon holed is a thing!
I said it yesterday and I mean it still: MMMM DELICIOUS CHARACTER GROWTH.
It also gets me right in the heartstrings. College age is a rough time and it takes years to figure out ‘who you are’ – they’re still kids and it’s hard to deal with not knowing who someone is going to be just yet.
As Dina would say “support through light physical contact” would be good now, I think, as I doubt Sal would be okay with actual hugs.
Though saying that, I never thought Sarah would hug Joyce either and she has done so – thus I am awaiting being surprised.
One of the best parts of getting older (I’m 40) is that you stop caring so much about these things, and focus more on just doing the things you like, and being the person you want. I’m not saying I still don’t have my baggage and issues, but there’s a lot more “fuck it, people either like me or they don’t” followed a sense of freedom to just be me.
Yeah, finding out you’re turning into a different person can be a strange sensation. Finding myself acting like a parent is still weird, and my kid’s ten.
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“I mean, I know it’s only been a few weeks, but it feels like years.”
‘If not nearly a decade.’
I’m always so thrown off by the time scale on webcomics and such. It gets confusing sometimes 😛
I know I started reading this 6 years ago, but howmuch time has actually passed… Is someone keeping score?
I believe it’s currently October in the webcomic.
I know the comic as a whole has been going for about 8 or 9years now.
They moved into the dorms late august, currently mid-October.
Move-in day was August 29th, and today is October 14th. DoA follows 2010’s calendar for its days of the week, but DoA isn’t a period piece so it’s always “this year” relative to the real world.
If you started reading in June 2012, you started with “Time Keeps On Slippin'”, which was Friday September 10 (and apropos to the discussion at hand).
Source: http://walkypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Dumbing_of_Age_Timeline
To put this into further, even more convoluted perspective, there have been a total of thirty seven days covered in the series. Several days are missing. It’s essentially only been a month and a half. Dorothy and Walky got together on September 5th (first kiss). Dorothy told Walky she loved him September 23rd. They broke up on October 11th. Walky and Amber got together October 13th.
Basically a lot happens in a very short span of time!
I started reading a long time ago when the series was called “Roomies.” When I was in jr High and it had a crossover Halloween comic with slight freelance. Then it was called “Its Walky” (wiigii, a typo of woohoo from the transformers world’s worst site and Dalnet irc Days) then “shortpacked” around the time I was in college.
Now I’m way older and it’s called “dumbing of age” and I feel ashamed of any PSL I felt for these characters when I was younger than they are as I’ve gotten older than they are.
Still a fan though. My brother had the old roomies shirt about best friends and orgy supplies.
“Dumbing of Age” is a reboot of the characters in the other comics, though. Same characters but different ages and setting.
I have given up trying to keep track, I just go with the flow now.
Aww puppies…
Now kiss…
To Becky’s regret, Joyce hasn’t changed that much.
Becky isn’t regretting anything, she has the best and cutest girlfriend in the comic.
No, Dina does
You’re both right.
Becky and Dina are secretly the same person with split-personality, what? =O
Lumino: Ah, man, you beat me to it. I wanted to have the first “now kiss!” post.
Try for something less bossy.
One of the people she’s trying to be more like is Billie, so I don’t know if that’s in the cards.
Y’know, Billie is bossy in a more “let me help you” way, and less in the “let me cross your boundaries however I like” way that Joyce has. Billie wants to give parts of herself away. Joyce wants people do do what’s right, and she’s the arbiter of that.
Not that Billie’s not problematic, too, of course. 😛
Billie has better social skills than Joyce, unless she doesn’t care if someone likes her or not. Then she says whatever comes into her head.
Kudos to a bunch of commenters from last night: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/02-but-the-sun-still-shines/exhibit/#comment-1374648
Whoa, I got a kudo!
Where do I redeem my kudos
At the chocolate bar.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51s-%2BzF75XL.jpg
Hehe, I wasn’t expecting confirmation one way or another quite this fast, so I was pleasantly surprised! I’m glad Sal and Joyce didn’t leave it hanging.
This is almost as good as seeing Amber kiss Walky and think “wow, imagine if Sal showed up” and she literally was in the next strip
There’s a few times this has happened. I’ve got to give it to Willis, he puts out these many strips and he still has plenty of room to surprise us with how fast or slow a breakthrough moment can come, though often, the ones that come quick are payoffs to something that already had been built towards.
Like, the Sal/Amber fight going so quickly into them making up and joining the roller derby SEEMS quick, but it’s more a payoff to Sal vs Marcie, which was a slow burn, plus obviously ages of Amber and Sal cat and mouse games prior to the fight.
Take a risk now
And let my love rain down on you
So we can wash away the past so that we can start anew–Ambrosia “You’re The Biggest Part of Me”
Why’d they turn the light off?
Don’t think she turned the light off; she just went to wash her hands without bothering to turn the bathroom light on.
Sal went into the half-bath, where presumably the light wasn’t on, and she left the door to her room open and didn’t turn on the bathroom light.
It’s symbolic. Also effective.
I think Sal walked into the bathroom, and the light wasn’t on in there. (That’s the literal reason, of course. In terms of presentation it’s good way to juxtapose the two characters.)
They didn’t. She just didn’t turn the bathroom light on.
Just in case no one told you yet, Sal is in the bathroom now and the bathroom light is off
I think Sal left the bathroom light off on purpose, to hide the oncoming breakdown. Darkness and running water hide the pouting.
Washing her hands may also be a psychological coping thing because of the scar.
I can still definitely relate
Relating to the characters is perhaps the most relatable thing in this comic.
(and that’s what I love most about DoA)
I’m always here for Big Shiny Sad Eyes Sal. Very cute. Even if it is because she is about to cry.
Aaaaaaaaaand hug it out
Light sympathetic physical contact.
I’d sympathize more with Sal’s position if she hadn’t cultivated this image she’s rejecting so deliberately.
It’s a common thing, building a shell to keep people out, whether she did it on purpose or not. It can be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy kind of thing, hating being misunderstood, but also not wanting to put yourself out there. It’s a shitty situation to find yourself in.
This is what I got out of it- she hates being misunderstood but directly refuses to answer questions about herself. I believe she even mentioned that she assumes people will try to make a project out of helping her, then give up sooner or later…
Amber said something similar, so there’s something else they have in common with each other.
I think she might’ve cultivated it defensively. It hurts less if you set people up to have low expectations of you and then you exceed them than if their expectations are high and you fall short.
What image is it she’s cultivated that she’s now rejecting? If you mean being rebellious and a biker, that’s not an image. Sal is both of those things. If you mean the constant glove wearing, there is a medical (and psychological) reason for that (and neither of those is the be all end all of what Sal’s problem is). That’s not an image thing.
I think the “aloof biker rebel” image isn’t entirely an act, but she’s used it as a defense mechanism to for so long that it’s become a tough habit to break.
Sal wants to make more friends, but she’s been burned so much that she’s afraid to let her guard down long enough to let anyone in (besides Marcie and maybe Danny).
It isn’t an act at all though. She doesn’t really want to be friends with people that suck-up to her/project on to her. She has remained politely nice with Joyce regardless but it has been Joyce’s own projections onto her that have kept Joyce at arm’s length. Her aloofness is often because she is being polite kind to people that she doesn’t want to offend but doesn’t really want to be that close to either.
She is friends with Marcie and Danny because neither of them project onto her. They don’t act like they *know* Sal better than Sal does. This is also why she cannot stand Malaya who projects her own imagining of Sal onto her all the damn time. And she hasn’t said she really wants more friends – Marcie said she should get more, but Sal herself often avoids opportunities to because too many people have tried to turn her into a ‘project’ to fix – part of it is defensive like when she avoided dinner with Dorothy and Walky.
Having to correct someone else’s image of you, and make them stop projecting, and getting them to see the real you, can take a lot of time and effort when you’re someone like Sal where you look cool so people are likely to assume a ton of things though. And Sal clearly doesn’t think it is worth it to do that for every person she meets. And it is fair for her to think so – she doesn’t really ‘owe’ anyone the emotional labour of doing that.
She hates being misunderstood genuinely, but she also doesn’t owe anyone the emotional labour of correcting people over every little thing when they are responsible for keeping their assumptions to themselves. So the problem isn’t really that it is a defense mechanism or that she is afraid of letting people know of her softer sides, it is that she has to try to get people past their initial assumptions, putting in effort on her own part, when they may just turn around and try to ‘fix’ her or ‘change’ her and she has found that to be a fruitless endeavor before. Finding the motivation to keep *trying* is hard for her, especially when almost no one really asks her anything about herself that isn’t potentially painful.
Yeah, the two people Sal’s called her friends on screen are both people who let Sal be Sal. Marcie’s known her since they were tiny and was there for all the rough stuff, and Danny is really good at being supportive and not voicing much, if any, of the things he speculates about her.
I think that’s precisely the point and why she’s getting teary-eyed? She built her personality, she made it a brand and enjoyed being recognised by it, as it gave her validation she was not obtaining in any other way… but it eventually became a prison.
In 20 years, she’s gonna be making money drawing porn of her webcomic loosely based on/inspired by her experiences.
But we’ll never see it, because we won’t get to it for another 600 years or so.
She’ll be writing Dexter and Monkey Master erotic fanfic by the time the year’s out, I bet.
OMG nested webcomics. Joyce will write a webcomic/slipshine, within which her alter-ego will write a webcomic…
Of course, it would be several tens of thousands of years in our time for the 3rd iteration of webcomics to progress a single week.
In a few trillion years the 4th nested webcomic will get through it’s first week.
Would this be spelt comiception or comicception?
Recomicsion.
Comicception is when you implant an idea for a joke in someone’s subconscious.
Willis-ception.
Wow. Totally called it yesterday. This is probably my favorite strip since “Escalation”
(yes that was only a month ago, there are lots of favorite strips okay?!)
In ten years time, Joyce will finally say the word “Fuck.”
and collects her own red panel
The letter F will appear in a word balloon 10 years from now. The U will appear a week later. The C and the K, being part of the same sound, will appear a couple days apart about a week after that.
Our time or comic time?
I love these two, if only because of moments like this.
I also love the detail of Sal running to wash her hand after Joyce brings up her scar. Nice touch.
You can’t wash it off, Sal.
Damn, this is a good strip. This is going to go down as one of my favorite Joyce moments, but honestly, one of my favorite Sal ones, too.
This is the most personal we’ve seen her since crying in the bathroom at Galasso’s with Dorothy.
Absolutely. I love this strip so much.
Not sure why Sal looks so despondent in the final panel. Does she feel that she no longer has the ability to change?
“You have become the thing you sought to destroy”
I think it might be that what Joyce said struck a chord with her, and so she’s tearing up. Like, Sal’s been able to open up to Danny, and to an extent, to Amber a bit, but this is the first time she’s had someone who understood she was coming from quite this way.
Sal said she liked Joyce more post-Ross, that she felt more “real”, so I feel like Sal likely does believe Joyce means everything she says here, and that might be some really needed validation for Sal, someone seeing what she’s saying and feeling it, too.
Oh, dang, this made me tear up a little when I first read it.
It’s a lot of self-awareness from Joyce, acknowledging the growth she’s going through and how scary it can be, and I just find that really impressive. And maybe a little out of nowhere, given how she’s been a bit of a hyperactive jerk the rest of the storyline so far, but still. I’m mostly just touched by the sincerity of it all!
Joyce likes to unload all her sincerity at once and disarm her critics
Joyce is like a high-precision tactical sincerity bomb
I think Sal is holding back tears in the last panel.
I know I am.
Yeeeeep. It’s been a rough couple days for her.
Sal deserves a break.
Knowing this comic though, there’s also no guarantee that she’s going to get one any time soon : (
Pfft! No.
Mark my words, the instant she feels better is the instant AG’s gonna come around searching for her ‘sidekick’.
Ooh, and AG doesn’t remember that Amber fought with Sal. And Sal figures it out, and (irony of ironies) recommends that Amber/AG get therapy.
…Well, it could happen that way.
I would be very surprised if Sal recommended therapy. I think if this happens, it’s going to be a confusing mess.
Sal will take AG’s therapy into her own hands.
First, an arc where she attempts to obtain a couch for lying down on.
I’m not sure how how AG is going to work now. If she will show up less because Amber doesn’t need her as much? That wouldn’t be how it would work in real life, but I dunno. To go from an integrated personality with compartmentalized specialization to actual disassociation isn’t how it works in reality, though it works for story well enough, which is what is important. Where Willis goes with it will be somewhere interesting, I’m sure, and as readers that all we can ask.
Unlikely. At least in the short term. Though Amber might think so.
Of course, Amber already didn’t need her so much, since Amazi-Girl lost. There’s no salvaging Amber. She’s irredeemable. She’s garbage.
Or so she thought.
Maybe this will make a bigger difference. I doubt that’ll happen without some more interaction between the two of them though.
Stressful situations can absolutely result in integrated personalities splitting off. For a long time Amber and AG were semi-integrated and lately it seems like they’ve fully split and no longer share memories.
True, but there’s been some good, too. She potentially has made a couple of new friends in Ethan and Amber, she’s made major progress on making up with Marcie, and she got to bury some demons in the process. She’s got to be feeling raw nerved, but it hasn’t all been bad, I hope.
Yeah, but even good things and emotions can be rough when they’re all mixed up in bad things and emotions. Emotional days are hard.
Those damn onion-cutting ninjas have struck again.
My favorite fictional narrative is the (slow, painful, poignant) transition from innocence to experience. Specially the moment when a character realizes retrospectively that something has happened and it means they’ll never be the same. DoA is particularly rewarding for me because it’s so full of these moments. Panels 5 and 6 here should go in the Hall of Fame.
If this much personal growth took place for anyone else in less than 3 months, they’d get whiplash.
Here it’s sloooooooooooooooow.
Joyce’s life seems to consist mostly of personal growth whiplash
It probably feels like ages to her, too, what things were like pre-Ross on campus and everything that came with that and after.
aight
“extremely slowly” Not in the in-universe timeline it’s not!
This strip speaks to me a lot. Everyone tries to pigeonhole you for their own convenience… and at first, you DO think it’s nice that people are remembering things about you… until you realize the “you” they’re remembering doesn’t match up with who you really are anymore. (Or maybe it never did.) Sometimes you just wake up one day and realize how much you’re changing, and it’s intimidating, and you’re scared of people’s reactions, or maybe you’re scared of finding out who you really are…
I was known as the goody-goody Christian girl who didn’t ever swear, once upon a time. People still think of me that way, no matter what I say. Now I have blue hair. I haven’t been to church in months and I feel freer that way, and that fact scares me. I swear, like, a lot (even if I still hide it from my parents even in my mid-20s). I’m not a goody-goody.
I’m not even a girl. Though… I haven’t actually told anyone that part, aside from my spouse. Honestly, it’s a little scary even saying it here when all you know is a username and an icon, hahaha…
I’m sorry, this comment got WAY away from me. I meant to just talk about how emotionally true this strip feels and how I love this moment between these two characters that I’ve grown to care about, and now I’m kinda crying at my keyboard like a weirdo. So… sorry about that? Take it as a testament to how DoA makes us all feel feelings a lot, I guess? >///////>
Ton of respect for you having that much honesty with yourself. I’m rooting for you, alright? For what that’s worth.
Thank you so much. :’)
You’re welcome. This isn’t on the same level, but I’ve had a lot of revelations this year, myself, like realizing I’m on the autism spectrum, and what that’s meant for how I see myself, so I am highly empathetic with having to redefine who you are, or I guess more accurately, seeing what was always there, just in a new light, you know?
I totally get you. (I’m actually somewhere on the spectrum too, and I remember having to get used to that idea a couple years back. So I’m rooting for you too!)
it’s felt like seeing so many moments from my life, looking back, like from another camera angle. Such a “wait, so that’s why…” thing.
and thanks, that means a lot to me.
I had that moment when I was eighteen and googled my sensory issues, only to find I was on the spectrum. It explained so much. Unfortunately it didn’t come with a guide so to this day I’m still figuring things out. XD
As someone who’s only really been “out” (for want of a better word) as autistic since about March 2017*, despite being diagnosed in grade school, I know the exact sort of feeling you mean. It’s like things sort of start lining up in a way, and you can finally make sense of certain things you did or reactions you got from people. I hope your experience is as enlightening, or at least more positive than not.
*Guess which movie came out that month to help? You might even be able to pinpoint the exact day and hour, if you’re feeling froggy.
Was the movie Power Rangers? Because I loved that movie.
So my dad casually mentioned a few weeks ago that I probably have ADHD. I’m in my mid-30s. I can’t help but feel that this information may have been helpful sooner…
I have yet to unpack this and work out if I agree it fits and if so what it means for me, let alone other people. Including my two children… (The topic came up because he was a bit concerned about the 4 year old misunderstanding/missing instructions coz she was busy having fun doing her own thing, and missing the reasoning behind it and trying to find better ways to achieve the same goals (in dance class… “of course I can touch my toes, that’s easy” *squats* type things). She just turned 4 a few months ago. Both her parents are ideas-y people. It kinda sounds like an enthusiastic, happy, confident kiddo being eager to help the teacher by showing her better ways to me (and very funny)! But if my understanding of “normal” is off, could I be missing Signs?)
…Yeah. As a trans guy who’s been slowly trying not to be terrified of any kind of self-expression for about 15 years now (since I came out to myself), this has put into feelings an emotion/impulse I’ve never understood until now.
What if I’m not who anyone thinks I am and they never stop thinking of me as who I used to be. Right next to, what if they do see who I really am and get violent and reject me.
…Never thought I’d relaye to Joyce of all people.
It’s odd how this comic has made me relate to such a wide variety of people.
And yeah… it’s a really weird emotion. And one that I didn’t really think about in the context of “other people feel this too” until this strip and this comment section tonight. But I’m cheering for you (hear that irritatingly high-pitched voice cheering in the distance? that would be me), and I hope 2019 brings us nothing but people who see who we really are and love us for it.
Honestly? Thanks for sharing! And I just rewrote like twelve different ways of saying “I can relate” because I’m scared I’ll come off as rude, or stupid, or something, so, uh, suffice to say I can relate at least a little >.>
Honest self expression can be so incredibly, frustratingly daunting. I don’t have a ton of experience at it yet, but I’m glad to say it’s gotten a little easier with practice, and that it’s something I need to try more often. I really hope it continues to get easier for you, too- wherever you choose to try it!
You didn’t come off as rude or stupid at all. I’m so glad to hear that other people can relate, honestly. I felt a little silly the split-second after I posted it, but now I feel really happy.
Thank you so much!
This was very well written, and a nice coming out.
At “I’m not even a girl” i groked, but its a great line. I genuinely laughed out loud ( with you and for you, at your clever reveal. Not at you)
Keep having the courage to change, and im sure people wi!l see you as the funny thoughtful guy inside, you already are.
And Keep working on this ( your comment ). With a little work and length, this could end up as an award-winning coming out essay. Or at least internet viral.
Oh wow, thank you! I do fancy myself a writer in my free time, so this made me smile a lot. Thank you so much. It means a lot to me.
You are welcome.. I responded below but it went to the wrong place. >> http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/02-but-the-sun-still-shines/stings/#comment-1374958
I suspect I’ve seen you posting on some *other* DoA-related forums.
Not me?
Props, Lilyliv. Smiling and rooting for you.
Thank you!
*plays Ben Folds on hacked Muzak*
I… must… give the impression…
That I have the answers for eeeeverything…
You… were… so disappointed to see me unravel so eaaasilyyyy…
It’s only change…
It’s only eeeeev-ry-thiiiiing IIII know…
Its only change…
I’m only chaaanging…
La da, la da…
La da da da da daa la da la daaa daaaa…
La da la da la da da da da daaa…
La da la da da la da da daaaaa…
You… want… something’s that constant…
And I only wanted to beee meee…
But… watch… even the stars above…
Things that seem still are still chaaaangiiiing…
Aw, not “The Real Me” off Quadrophenia?
Love that song.
Please let this end in a tearjerker bonding moment immediately and quickly followed by a makeover montage of swapping styles!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzvoHslX6Vo
You have no idea how happy it makes me that people still reference this clip <3 <3 <3
how did Joyce know that Sal felt objectified over the ghost comment from yesterday?
Maybe lessons learned in Leslie’s class being applied to other aspects of her life.
Because that’s basically what Sal was describing yesterday. People would react weird to her changing because they don’t see her as a person so much as a superficial caricature of one. A ghost of her own past self instead of a living person who grows and changes over time.
Joyce understood what Sal meant because she’s experienced something similar
[feels intensifies]
Joyce hits Sal with a mean blow to the feels.
Sometimes i forget how much joyce and sal have in common
I can relate to people expecting you to be a certain way, but being bothered when they’re shocked or disappointed that you don’t live up to those expectations is utterly alien. Given the number of people I’ve observed desperately seeking approval and acceptance over the years, I’m probably the odd man out in that regard. In any case, it’s nice to see Sal and Joyce bonding.
Joyce, i know who you will end up as:
A male internet webcomic pornlord. o
Also you will probably Marry Walky.
Yeah, sometimes I forget Joyce is an expy of Willis. Does that mean that his wife is Walky? Both couples have twins.
I do not know.
I guess we’d have to ask Maggie.
I believe Willis has said she’s more similar to Dorothy.
Magnificent.
Maggie for president!!!
OH JEGUS! That explains the Joyce x Dorothy shipping!
I think he also said that his relationship with her was most similar to Walkky/Dorothy.
Purely FWIW, my personal idea is that she’ll end up as a school teacher because she doesn’t want anyone else to get to adulthood as woefully unprepared as she did. One thing that I suspect will carry over from Willis’s real life is I suspect that she’ll have long since cut off all contact with her mother and her relationship with her father will never be anything other than strained
Joyce’s father’s reactions have been a mixed bag. I’m hoping he can grow and accept the woman Joyce is becoming — the potential is there. Things could go either way, though. Jocylene, and the family’s reaction to her once she comes out, could be the determining factor.
Barring a drastic change in Carol, at some point Hank’s not going to be able to keep the peace any more and he’s going to have to choose.
Getting those feels now.
Daaaaaaaaaang. I’m so proud of Joyce. After Sal lashes out of her, her first instinct is to understand and apologize rather than lash back or slink away.
And what she’s saying is extremely poignant. Both Joyce and Sal have used their pesonas as shields, but now when they try to change, they become a burden.
It’s also an interesting answer to Sal’s advice on how to be cool. Maybe there are higher goals to strive for.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/fudge/
Dina, popping in from the left: Also, I am not a child.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/hypotheses/
Becky: And I am, in fact, a LESBI….
Everyone: Yes, yes. We know.
Jokes about Becky aside, she WAS in similar box as Joyce (not exactly the same – she was the Walky of the gang – but she still belonged to the same set). Her constant reminder that GUESS WHAT, SHE’S A LESBIAN, is a deliberate – successful – attempt to break out of that box.
Not that different to new Danny, come to think of it.
Becky nuked her everyone-else’s-expectations box along with her closet.
The box is gone now.
And radioactive.
THAT CAN’T BE GOOD!
I’m also reminded by Ethan’s and Dina’s discussion about very much wanting to stay in their box.
This comic says a lot of interesting things about boxes, is what I’m saying.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/04-walking-with-dina/ceremonial/
The strip’s going to start attracting cats if it keeps leaving all these boxes around.
That’s not a bad thing, of course…
Dear God I forgot how adorable those last two panels are
Sal, just… Just hug her, okay? You need it and she needs it.
Sadly, hers is not the hugging kind of family
Reason number 15 zillion I’m hapy Sal and Marcie may be making up. We need more of this: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/erase/
Oh, and something else: Sal washing her hands mirrors the way Joyce rubs her right wrist when she’s under some kind of stress. The two of them really are more alike than I think either of them are ready to acknowledge just yet.
🙁
Yeeeep. I love that detail but it makes me very :(. You can’t wash it off, Sal.
Dammit, Willis! Stop messing with my adult feelings!
When did Willis get the shipping container of feels?
Your welcome; and thank you for your grace.
I suspected after i wrote it, you did write. You have good timing.
( stab in the dark? Jewish at all? Fan of Jewish comedians. I suppose it doesn’t matter, its so deep in our popculture dna. There was a certain lilt to Yiddish, not just in rhythm but pitch and emotional tone, sentences riding in pitch, intensity; then falling releasing. But that’s another story )
You should invite your church to a gender reveal party . I would go. ( shock you are prgnant , relief you a re not, then : Suprise: Blue BalloonS. ) film on Youtube with a voice over.
Or maybe don’t do that.( What am i saying, you are bad boy who swears like s sailor trying to shed good Christian Girl image? There s no way i could talk you out of my terrible ideas. )
Did you ever see John Waters “crybaby” with Johnny Depp?. Theres this scene near the end ….
( Although Pecker has him beat for poignant sincerity )
Ok i have been a bad influence enough for one night.
Re lilyliv
(Sorry, just now saw this. Even bad boys have to go to sleep eventually.)
Not Jewish myself, but there’s some amazing Jewish comedians out there so I take that as a huge compliment.
Haha, if I did invite everyone to a party, they’d just end up way disappointed that I *wasn’t* pregnant, before I got to the actual announcement. (Church people… especially in the middle of the Bible belt… are weird. And sorta scary. Not sure I’d ever have the guts to say something so important when surrounded by so many of them, but the mental image is hilarious.)
I haven’t actually seen that movie, but I’ll add it to my to-watch list, I guess!
Thank you for all your kind words~
Your welcome .
Crt baby is a farce about the sensitive Badboy Trope.
Pecker is about “outsider art” objectification and gave us such linez as “im not gay, im TrAde” , and taught Americans what Teabagging meant. Must see.
Years, years later, Joyce will become a successful entrepreneur, drawing porn on-line. She will mostly be praised for her realistic penises.
RIGHT IN THE FEEEELS…
I love this – not only is it showing the character growth of these two, but highlighting how painful it is that these changes aren’t recognized by those around you.
That would have been a very easy place for joystick just exit. She stayed with Sal and spoke comforting words. May be the most Christ-like thing she has done in the comic.
Joystick? What is autocorrect thinking? Joy eating. Joyce.
Agh! Too much Joyce adorableness!
Joyce: Be Batman. Always be Batman.
Oh wait, Amber already has that one covered. [EmilyLatella] Never Mind! [/EmilyLatella]
Thank you Willis, the last two days have put so many things in elegant perspective.
Holy crap this keeps getting awesomer and hits close to home 😮
And then Sal asked “You ever try Roller Derby?”
Instant welling up in tears here. Wow.
That said, it can be used as camouflage down the road. I’m very extroverted at work, talking to everyone, and when in the backroom I play my very eclectic phone music loudly. When I want to get away from something I just stay quiet and put the radio on a country station and people assume I’m not there even in plain sight. Weaponizing how you’re pigeon holed is a thing!
I said it yesterday and I mean it still: MMMM DELICIOUS CHARACTER GROWTH.
It also gets me right in the heartstrings. College age is a rough time and it takes years to figure out ‘who you are’ – they’re still kids and it’s hard to deal with not knowing who someone is going to be just yet.
As Dina would say “support through light physical contact” would be good now, I think, as I doubt Sal would be okay with actual hugs.
Though saying that, I never thought Sarah would hug Joyce either and she has done so – thus I am awaiting being surprised.
nobody likes to be put in a box
One of the best parts of getting older (I’m 40) is that you stop caring so much about these things, and focus more on just doing the things you like, and being the person you want. I’m not saying I still don’t have my baggage and issues, but there’s a lot more “fuck it, people either like me or they don’t” followed a sense of freedom to just be me.
Eeeverybody hurts….
I’m not a hugger. But, I do feel the need to offer the comfort and support that would be symbolized by a hug. Sal, Joyce, I offer you brownies.
I did not need to many FEELS this morning…
*so
And it’s afternoon, jeez.
oof my heart what a mood
Yeah, I thought her face in the last panel of the previous strip was sort of an epiphany.
Yeah, finding out you’re turning into a different person can be a strange sensation. Finding myself acting like a parent is still weird, and my kid’s ten.