to be clear, Lingo is referencing an old gag from It’s Walky!. Squad 128 needed someone with Sal’s Silhouette to distract He who would be named Dexter in Dumbing of Age… so Walky fashioned a Sal-wig out of seaweed.
What affected student? They’ve got no evidence that he’s slept with a student and something tells me Sal ain’t gonna go talking. She’s got no reason to care.
Yes, but she could be “charged” with attempting to bribe him, in exchange for grades. Which is what she did. So, prisoner’s dilemma. And further, Penny might have picked Sal as the supposed bangie.
Yes, but it depends on what the university actually knows. If the only evidence is the testimony of someone who herself was just fired, Jason should be able to survive. Maybe not, but I’ve survived food service with a boss that hated me because the only complaints against me never had any merit.
Memory suggests that Sal’s position was that she wasn’t a narc. Jason’s position should be “what affected student?” Admitting that he knows which affected student means there is one. And if Penny in fact mentioned Sal, he can point out and provide evidence that he had another TA grade her to avoid any appearance of … Oh, crud. Penny is the other TA he had mark Sal’s coursework, isn’t she. Okay, he’s screwed.
I do kind of wonder if there’s a reason he only says “affected student” – other than the obvious narrative (and maybe in character) one of not wanting to drop that drama bomb to Walky. Yet.
If Penny didn’t name Sal, then “affected student” is either a fishing expedition or a trap. Would explain why the admins haven’t contacted Sal though.
Yeah, in the current scenario, outright denial should be a viable strategy for Jason. Without some form of corroboration, the administration has no reason to pursue this.
Now, there is one other road to hijinks, here: If she actually DID name a student, but it isn’t Sal. So he has to approach, say, Dorothy and ask her to confirm to the panel that she and her Brit TA have not been doin’ the deed.
And, of course, there’s always the chance that she named one of his male students. Say, someone he’s spent a lot of time in his office with, lately….
@thejeff Yeah, an accusation without physical evidence or identity of party affected can’t really be taken seriously. Ergo, like other commenters have assumed, Sal may have already been pointed out by Penny (perhaps understandably, as only Sal and Walky have been seen going to tutoring with Jason thus far, and Penny was, as others have noted, likely the one to have graded Sal’s work in place of Jason).
Why would they even call her? Nobody but Jason knows he slept with Sal. There’s literally no way anyone’s gonna find out unless Sal finds out this is happening, or Jason admits it.
And even then, she believed he only intended to be Sal’s math tutor. Remember yesterday, where she was genuinely surprised Jason got frisky with a student?
You’re assuming she provided a girl’s name. If you’re going for the lulz, go big. And, which male student has been spending a lot of time in Jason’s office, lately?
I would really hope not. I mean, you can’t really blame Penny for it (she isn’t an expert of every student of course), but I really wouldn’t want the Christian girl who was nearly raped having to explain that she didn’t sleep with the TA.
That would be extremely uncomfortable for everyone.
That would require her looking up who’s in his classes, which is more effort than I see her doing in the moment. Unless she made the claim via email or remembered the Sal interaction enough to give a vague description. (In which case, damn Penny.)
If she gave a name, which I don’t think she did, I hope it was just “Walkerton” which she heard Jason muttering about at some point. Because shenanigans.
My theory is that she’s the TA he gave Sal’s stuff to mark. That, plus being asked not to tell about his ‘scheduling irregularity’ and I can see it just being a name she’d throw out.
That is possible, yeah. We already know her first instinct with that meeting was sex (could’ve been a joke, could’ve been instinct, but I half-think she assumes everyone’s as corrupt as she is and she happened to get it right this once). If there were other indications I could see her jumping on them, especially to tank someone with her.
There must be A name somewhere, since Jason’s only real recourse is to counter argue with the affected student. No affected student mentioned and that kinda becomes impossible. Heck, it’s possible Penny just blurted out any name he’s TA-ing for. They both TA for Rees, shot in the dark they both have access to his class list.
True. Thinking on it, there actually being a name would make it sound legitimate and not just post-firing spite. I’m just surprised she would remember a presumably random name from another class section in the moment, based on how bad my professors were with their own, smaller classes.
She did seduce him and she was mad because he didn’t give her anything in exchange for sex.
Not that I’m saying it’s her fault. He should have been slightly harder to seduce, as he was the one in the actual position of authority. For example, he could have done… literally anything else.
I don’t really like the “let’s flip the genders and see how this plays out” trick, but….I mean, if Joe had been the one to jump over a desk and take off his pants whilst astride Penny, would anyone be saying “Penny can’t be raped because she’s a TA”?
It’s a weird situation and it’s not as simple as “Jason is completely at fault for not saying no”.
There’s a very big line between voluntary sex and rape which is labeled consent. The consent being on the part of Jason who took Sal up on the offer. If Joe made an offer to Penny to have sex by ripping his shirt off and she had sex with him voluntarily (i.e. exactly what happened reverse gender wise) it would still be skeevy as hell–because she’s the one who grades his papers.
That’s what I want someone in the comic to call out. Her violent behavior toward Jason.
I’m cool if Jason gets fired for this, he shouldn’t have had sex with her and continued to have sex with her. That’s not the point I’m trying to make here.
I doubt Sal’s even going to hear about this until the firing’s a done deal, unless Walky spills the beans for whatever random reason. The implication of this strip, to me, is that Jason’s not even going to bother asking Sal to lie. If he’s mad at anyone, he’s mad at himself for being a human person who made a bad decision (twice) instead of the automaton who’s fine with existing in a state of total loneliness that everyone thinks he should be.
They don’t even know he’s been boffing anyone, but: say he needs someone to fill the role of “affected student” and be on his side. Say Sal is like, “Fuck off.” Then Walky shows up. Shenanigans ensue.
“Listen, Sal, I want you to explain we didn’t have sex even though you threw yourself at me because you wanted to trollop yourself for grades. I, being too noble to deface my teaching position by changing the grades–though I still slept with you because you clearly wanted me.” – Jason’s argument translated from Snooty Englishman.
Well, if they don’t know who the affected student is… he should be fine. Is Sal really interested enough in the system to cooperate and tell them everything? She didn’t make the complaint, Penny did… and she didn’t know who he slept with. Like she said, she did it for funsies.
“Students, it has come to our attention that one or more of you may have been engaging in sexual congress with Mr. Chesterfield. If this has is determined to have happened, then he will be disciplined accordingly, resulting in, at a minimum, his termination. We understand that this is an uncomfortable subject, so we wish to stress that we understand that with his position of authority you may have felt compelled to acquiesce to his advances, and this fact will not be held against you. The only matter being examined here is Mr. Chesterfield’s guilt and subsequent fate.”
The class is silent for a moment.
All hands but one raise. Joyce looks around, then has a mental breakdown.
Sal getting someone else entangled in the system on purpose? No way. She knows justice is not the thing done very often.
Actually, she’s more likely to tell tall tales then tell tales.
Penny pretty much has to have named Sal or none of this would make any sense. If she didn’t name anyone, then there is no “affected student” to mount a counterargument with.
Penny has to have named Sal, after seeing them together for the “irregular hours tutoring session”, even if she thought they hadn’t actually done anything.
And there’s good odds this is on its way to the dean’s desk (the List is probably there already if it made it to the faculty, particularly in the wake of the rapist incident.) If there’s a name attached and he recognizes it, shit will fly.
I don’t think Walky is attempting to kick Jason. He’s doing what he always does, breeze by the hard and awkward with an unhealthy amount of snark.
That said, since Jason isn’t fired, it’s still technically his office hours and Walky does need some tutoring…what? Is he going to take the rest of the day off?
Reading this strip, it looks to me like Jason’s not going to fight. Faced with either getting another person, who he’s aware has no reason to be fond of him and with whom whatever bridges he had are burned, to lie to a tribunal with him or being fired, he skips straight to ‘yup, I’m fired’.
IF (and it’s a big if) Jason is saved from this and my read is right, it’ll be because other people decide to do it on their own, not because he asked or pled for help.
Well, theoretically, because Walky could beg her and promise her things. I don’t know if that’d be enough to persuade her, but if her stance is, “I don’t care one way or the other” and then she can get something out of one option…
I was suspended for an offense, then told to come in several days later only to be frisked at the gate then brought to an office to be told I was fired for a completely different offense.
Couldn’t go to my locker to get my stuff.
Couldn’t say goodbye to my friends and coworkers.
Was told I couldn’t be on the property or else I would be arrested for trespassing, which also meant I couldn’t apply for a different job position in another department as it was all company property.
I’d been there 9 years.
I once had to pay a company to FedEx my own property back to me after they had someone I’d never met before fire me over the phone on Friday night and explicitly tell me I was not allowed on the property to retrieve it and they’d just throw everything in my locker away if I didn’t send them a check for FedEx fees.
He hasn’t technically been fired. He’s been informed that there are allegations against him and he needs to defend himself to a tribunal. He just knows he did the thing that he’s been accused of and in this moment doesn’t feel capable of defending himself.
Yeah that wouldn’t be expulsion, that would be ‘parent pulls the student out and sends her to the strictest religious school that’ll take her.’ *shudders*
So I’m gonna throw out a crazy idea. What if Jason and Sal talk like human being instead of this darkest timeline shit you keep pushing. Jason grows as a person, and Sal gains a friend. Maybe Jason keeps his job or maybe he doesn’t either way both people are left better than they were were before.
Short answer no. Long answer, basically with these power dynamics the onus is on the one with the power to not do shit like this, because consent means jack shit when the person can make your life he’ll for refusing. Like, if Jason has said to Sal outright ‘I’ll change your grades if you sleep with me’ they might review her grades but the focus is definitely going to be on the dude who coerced at least one student for sex. And they don’t want the reputation of expelling people who come forward in case there’s a scenario where students are, say, getting artificially bad grades unless they have sex with the TA. (In theory at least. In practice schools tend to be more of the cover that shit up bend, but that coming out with the news it was hushed up is even worse than an isolated incident breaking – it’s not a perfect comparison, but think the Penn State Sandusky scandal.) Basically, Joe can hit on Penny all he wants and he’s an ass but there’s no academic consequences, but if Penny responds or hits on him first she’s the one who should know better.
You know, reading this made me realize why I don’t seem to be quite as emotionally against this as the comic says I should be.
My experience as an university student always was that TAs had more or less zero power, and in some ways were less powerful than us students. They basically were just grunts and we regularly made mockeries out of all of them and at all times went directly to the teacher if we needed anything. So I have trouble seeing a TA as having a power dynamic over anyone. But it would seem it’s different in the US.
No, TAs are pretty much slave-wage labor with a teacher’s workload and none of that teacher’s security. It’s a shitty gig at many universities depending on your professor but you have to do it to get the job you actually want.
It’s definitely grunt work, but in this particular case it’s been made clear that the TAs do at least some of the grading, which gives them definite power over the students.
Seriously, the best teacher on earth can’t help you if you refuse to engage with the subject matter in any way and instead spend your entire session mocking them.
Oh, something I was thinking about for the comment section: is there a way to have the comment number displayed for each comment? Like around in the area for the time stamp? I know you can permalink to starter comments, but I’m talking about something besides that.
For example, Ana Chronistic’s would have a #1 by it and then if I replied to it later, my comment would have a #83 or whatever comment number by it and such.
I think this would be useful for finding new comments on a strip– like if there were 79 comments when I last checked and now there are 86 and I wanted to read the new ones, I could ctrl+f “#8” and start finding them. People could also use it to direct others to comments in a thread (ones that cannot be permalinked individually), so I could be like, “See C.T Phipps comment #17.”
I don’t know if this is possible, and if it’d be difficult to do it probably wouldn’t be worth it, but I think it’d be interesting.
Your comment is #1310868. See the # symbol next to the reply? That will give you the link to your comment. So, yes, it’s not only possible, it’s how it’s meant to be done.
well, if you dig in the source iirc all comments have numbers (and when I hit reply I should get a url with the # of this comment in it) but that’s not too useful for finding new comments.
slightly more useful is the rss feed. which reminds me, what’s up with that lately? the ones for a single comic seem to work fine, but are quite inconvenient (my tablet is slowly filling up with them) and the feed for all comments has been broken on-and-off for several weeks now. (unless that’s just me… oh, but it’s been working again the last few hours)
Jason’s whole world is crashing around him, huh.
Still wondering if he’s got an abusive father like in the walkyverse. There’s gotta be some reason for him to be in America.
He mentions that he didn’t have an “insipid dorm life” to make friends, so I’m guessing his undergraduate was done back in Britain, and then for… some reason chose to go to a whole other country for his graduate? TAs are usually graduates right?
So my guess is either a) getting away from a bad family or b) back when he and penny were still boffing they decided to go to the same school for graduate studies. Or maybe both. Hmm.
Depending on how family relations carry over from the Walkyverse (I don’t know, haven’t read any), I wouldn’t put much significance on the fact that Jason chose to do his graduate degree in the US. The US is full of pretty good schools and in general funding for PhDs in the US is a lot more readily available than in the UK, given that it’s normally in the form of TAships rather than just a grant from some body, or in many cases just having to self fund.
I’m currently in the situation where I’ve applied exclusively to US institutions for my PhD having lived and studied in the UK simply because I couldn’t afford the taught masters in economics I’d need to do to study economics at a doctoral level later.
Good news: Walky can talk to Sal about his tutor and get directed to someone who actually knows how to teach.
Bad news: That someone is Danny, his ex(ish)-girlfriend’s ex-boyfriend, and Walky has childish notions of what girlfriend’s ex-boyfriends should do.
And Danny doesn’t think much of Walky, anyway, with just as little reason as Walky does for his feeling towards him. It just wouldn’t be a good situation.
So did Penny just guess Sal?
Can’t Jason just say that Penny was being vindictive and made the allegations because she didn’t want to be the only one fired?
Because despite the….. truth.
That is what happened.
She probably pulled A name, and she did have the shady ‘these aren’t my office hours but let me kick you out and have a one-on-one with this student’ interaction with him and Sal as evidence at minimum. If as BBCC suggests she was also the TA grading Sal’s papers for him, it becomes much easier to see something up. (I mean, it could have been some ‘don’t tell anyone because of contracts or something’ situation, but we know it’s not.)
But it was some “don’t tell anyone because of contracts or something” situation. It started out completely innocent. It just evolved into something else.
wait.. what affected student?
You tutor many. Your claim is “I didn’t do anything, she was just trying to get me fired as well”
Except for when you just.. now.. said it.. there was no proof of any kind
aand it sounds like.. they’re asking YOU to bring the “affected student” ?
I know TAs are important and everything, but would Jason really be a net loss to that grouping? Would not being a TA really be a net loss for Jason, for that matter?
Plus, getting busted for something like that will probably mean his overall academic career will be done for. He will probably not be able to change universities, and continue his program somewhere else…
Yeah, but Penny didn’t know that when she accused him. She just wanted to make Jason’s life difficult.
It’s like if I didn’t like the comments you made in this comment section, so I accused you of murder, and it turned out that you actually murdered someone. Whether or not you were actually guilty of the crime wouldn’t make me any less of an asshole for making an accusation under false pretenses.
Actually, I think that Jason is going to be okay. Sal, by her nature, isn’t the sort of woman who will want to rake this whole matter over the coals. Jason may think that she’s going to be bitter and want to hurt him out of revenge but that just doesn’t seem to me to be the sort of way she’d react.
I mean, Jason did ask Penny at least once to cover for him and Sal using the office out of hours, so it’s not a stretch for her to throw her name out as the affected student especially considering the conversation those three had was rather…charged.
But I can’t see Sal throwing Jason under the bus or opting not to lie at the tribunal to cover for him if she decides to testify. Even if he was an ass and he deserves it.
All I want is for someone in the comic to say “so, Sal basically assaulted him the first time”. I don’t want Sal expelled, I don’t want her punished, I just want someone to acknowledge it.
We’ve had a strip already where Jason explicitly says “is no one going to comment that I’m visibly being transported against my will” and it’s just played for laughs, haha, the big strong man is being pulled around by the little woman, so I don’t have high hopes.
That and the sex are different.
Two events separated by, I think, hours.
And while Sal could be said to be aggressive towards the sex, that wasn’t assault.
The grabbing him by his shirt and dragging him around, that could probably be recognized as assault.
Speaking of assault by women in the comic, physical but not sexual, I will say I have been a bit bothered by how no one in universe has seen fit to really call out Joyce for how quickly she becomes violent when angry.
Admittedly, it is occasionally justified, but most of the time it’s not and almost no one tells her she needs to chill with that.
I think Joe did when their date devolved into punching.
And I think Jocelyne (her brother? Sister? I don’t know the word to use considering there hasn’t been any transition and they’re still keeping it a secret from the family they actively spend time with), I think they said something to her. But other than that, I don’t remember anyone saying anything.
Jocelyn was cautioning Joyce against being too quick to burn bridges with her family, because she was going to need them in order to help Becky. That wasn’t about violence, or even because her anger was wrong, so much as a practical advisory.
And I can’t think of a single time she got violent where it was uncalled for besides the date with Joe. Toedad and scarface could not have deserved it more, and other than some completely necessary man handling of Mike, I can’t think of any other incidents
Thanks for clearing that up about Jocelyne. I wasn’t sure what they cautioned her about and didn’t feel like looking it up.
As for Joyce being violent, she busted into Walky’s room and hemmed him up over breaking up with Dorothy, all because she thought he wasn’t worthy to make that decision about his own personal life, because Doeothy is perfect and he isn’t good enough for her.
She also kicked Mike in the shin because he didn’t want to let them into his own room, which she has no right to be in in the first place. And we already talked about Joe.
There may have been other times, but let’s say that’s all of them. That’s five people she got violent with, only two being justified, and the other three over petty things and/or things that were not her business.
Those three didn’t need a violent escalation. She let her opinion and frustration transition into violence way too easily, and has not had any consequences from that, other than the talk with Joe. Her attidude towards her own personal violence makes me think she feels entitled to it, and that is no way to act. On top of which, it could have easily had a negative effect. What if she had damaged her being frenemies with Walky? What if Mike was the kind of guy to hit a woman? What if Joe had called the cops on her and Mike for beating him down in public? In real life, those options could have easily happened.
“Bursting into someone’s room” is not violence. Nor is getting him to fix the stupid mistake he made breaking up with Dorothy over some stupid pants. If I ever did anything that dumb, I hope my own friends would do the same.
It can safely be assumed that Mike deserved it, or would shortly. And whether or not he’d hit her back really has no bearing on whether it’s right for Joyce to got him.
Walky burst into Dina and Amber’s room to get to Dorothy’s to finish a ridiculous heated argument about cartoons, threatened Joe with violence because he suggested cutting back on them, and has gotten at least as “violent” with Mike as you say Joyce was with him. Why is Joyce “too violent”, but he gets a pass?
I just spent several hours (not including several hours for a nap) scanning the 935 Joyce tagged strips looking for signs of anger and violence. I found more and less than I expected. Long story short, Joyce has anger problems, and she easily resorts to violence when angry. Slightly more detailed info to follow if you care to read it.
*Oh, and before I forget, Jocelyne didn’t just suggest Joyce not burn bridges, but did in fact suggest Joyce hide her anger to avoid burning bridges, the same anger that leads to her violence. So it was not a direct conversation about violence, but it was about her anger.*
1. Joyce AND Mike punched Joe repeatedly in the face because Joe looked at another woman with “lustful” eyes. Do I really need to say that’s not right?
2. The very next day, immediately after Joe told off Joyce for punching him in the face and she expressed disbelief at a girl’s fist being able to hurt a guy, Roz makes a statement tantamount to saying she and Joe had sex after the ruined date, and Joyce puts her hands up to punch Joe again, as Joe covers his face.
She’d just been talked to about how punching people like that wasn’t right AND had already written Joe off as future husband material, but still felt entitled to threaten him again with violence for him having sex with someone else after they both agreed they were done. So, with bo claim on Joe and after she was no longer involved with him romantically, she threatened to hit him for being with someone else sexually. Again, that’s not right.
3. This in regards to the Ryan incident. Before anyone jumps to conclusions, i am completely on board with what she did and feel he deserved it.
But in regards to her anger and violence, the strip makes it unclear what exactly she cut him for. She never says she tasted anything wrong with the drink prior to hitting him. He yelled at her, cussed at her, stated that he was going to be alone with her without taking into account her feelings, and called her a tease.
She then looked down at the glass in her hand before striking him across the face. That’s all one strip. The very next strip has her saying he lied to her about being a preacher’s son (which was actually the truth).
So, did Joyce cut him because he roofied her, because he yelled at her, because he cussed at her, because he was trying to rape her (or have sex with her, depending on if she realized he had drugged her yet and whether or not she thought he’d want her consent), because he called her a tease, or because she believed he lied to her?
I’d like to believe it’s because she realized he roofied/wanted to rape her, but, again, the strip is unclear, thus leaving the possibility she cut him for yelling, cussing, name calling, and/or lying to her, and none of those options are appropriate reasons to maim someone’s face, generally speaking.
4. Joyce busted in to Walky’s room and HEMMED HIM UP by his shirt collar while yelling in his face that he wasn’t good enough for Dorothy and thus didn’t get to make decisions about his personal romantic choices in relation to her. The grabbing him by the collar and raising him up on his toes while angrily yelling that he doesn’t have the same worth as a human being as Dorothy is the violent part (though one can easily argue that bursting into someone’s room is indeed violent). Whether you feel Joyce was right in her assessment and decision is irrelevant. It wasn’t her business and she had no right to put her hands on him.
5. When Amber sees Ethan with Joyce for the first time, she gets mad, yells, then pulls him outside while loudly proclaiming that he’s going to explain what’s going on to her. Joyce starts to stand, eyes angry and fists clenched and raised, with the only thing preventing her from going out there seemingly being Dorothy’s hand on her shoulder restraining her and Dorothy saying it seems to be a personal issue between the two of them.
This isn’t that big a deal, as the situation was already heightened by Amber’s behavior, but I bring it up because her body language implies more than just a desire to figure out what’s going on.
6. Kicking Mike. Mike is a jerk. That does not give one the right to kick him. It was early morning. It was his room. And he was under no obligation to tell them anything about anyone who might or might not be in the room. People want to brush off violence because they feel the person earned it, but being a jerk in and of itself is not earning violence.
Also, whether or not Mike would hit her back is important because it’s a potential negative consequence to her actions that she has yet to face in regards to her violent impulses. My whole point about initially bringing this up is that almost no one talks to her about her violence AND she suffers no negative ramifications from it. Also, the way she acts makes me think she feels entitled to let her anger out on people. That plus her views on gender roles, as well as generally being a happy ball of Christian sunshine, makes me think it wouldn’t cross her mind that Mike (or Joe or Walky for that matter) would have really fought her. It’s not that I want them to do that, but I do want to see her anger addressed in some way. We even have two people who could talk to her about it, those being Sal and Amber; they both are dealing with their own anger issues, albeit maybe not in the best way, but they would be good at recognizing that she has a problem.
6. Immediately after she kicks Mike and Dorothy enters the room, in the next strip, she threatens to kick him again simply for saying something she doesn’t like. Again, being a jerk, in and of itself, does not mean one deserves violence.
7. Joyce threatens Joe for hitting on Sarah AFTER Sarah had said she didn’t want him to ever come onto her and Joe said he had no issue as he respected her desire to be left alone by him. Whatever issues people may have with Joe,min this instance he came on to Sarah, was rejected, and acknowledged it with grace and no hint of anger or negativity. Not only did Joyce not need to interject, she didn’t need to threaten violence. This is just another example of her needlessly escalating things in regards to violence.
Now, to be fair, while this is more threats of violence via verbal and nonverbal communication than I initially remembered, there aren’t a LOT of incidents when compared to how many strips there acruelly are. Also, Joyce hasn’t really threatened violence in any way since the talk with Jocelyne. So I have to conclude that I was more bothered by her actions earlier in the comic than I realized since everything I’ve listed is years old. Joyce still has an anger problem I think the comic should address, but I realize my feelings about it are a bit stronger than warranted.
Leaving much of this aside, I think the point of emphasizing the look down at the glass in the Ryan scene is to show that she realized what was going on. Remember that Billie had commented on roofied drinks as they were on their way to the party, so she would have had a clue about it.
The only ones I disagree with are #3 and maybe #7. I agree that Joyce’s behaviour ideally ought not to be ignored. I used to be like that in high school, and neither me nor my friends believed I could hurt them until it happened. (Then I suppressed that anger so hard I forgot it even existed for about a decade (which wasn’t the best solution, but eh)).
otoh, Joyce managed to not threaten Joe when she was mad at him for the toe-crushing, iirc, so, maybe she’s figuring it out on her own?
Oh, it is entirely possible that Joyce realized she was drugged. And, I hope that is the reason for the gash.
While I’ve wasted my day looking for angry Joyce faces, I don’t want her to be so angry that she would cut someone for any of the lesser reasons I listed. But an argument could be made that she did it for the other reasons if only because she never stated why she did it or when she knew she was drugged.
Doing all this has made me think I’ve been projecting some of my feelings from my experiences into wanting to see Joyce talked to about her anger.
As a very large individual who gets loud when excited, I’ve been accused of being angry when I wasn’t all my life, having received many lectures about it and even been accused of having anger management problems by my then supervisor after I was verbally attacked by a coworker.
I’d never even consider most of Joyce’s behavior when angry for the things she was angry about, so I guess I’m a bit sensitive that most people ignore it when I’d have been bombarded with talks in her place.
No, she never stated it – not in the heat of the moment and thanks to the drug her memories aren’t so clear. Not everything needs to be explicitly stated by a character to be clear to us.
His intentions are clear to her. The look down into the glass can only be intended to let us know she realizes it was drugged. There’s no other reason for that shot to be in the strip.
I disagree. The look at the glass could be the realization that she had a weapon available, which is what she actually used it as. There is nothing vague about what she did with the glass. Unlike realizing she was drugged as she said nothing about the drink before or after and only looked at the glass after he yelled at her, which didn’t mention him drugging her and didn’t require her to be drugged for him to be a rapey asshat.
But, if she did realize she was drugged, why are her first words following said realization about him lying to her? Not about him drugging her. Not about him wanting to rape her. Not to get help. Not to get him arrested. It was to reprimand him for lying. And again, he didn’t even lie about that particular thing she was reprimanding him about. The lie is the biggest thing and not the drugging/potential rape?
Believe all you want that she knew. Again, I want to believe that she knew. Doesn’t change the fact that the strip is vague about it.
the comic in question is http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/smash/ and to me it looks *very* clear that anything after that black text bubble can be considered self-defense. she doesn’t even *have* to realise she was drugged, just notice that he stated some horrifying intentions.
And that is not the point of my bringing it up.
I’m not talking about legalities. It was self defense.
I’m not even talking about if it was deserved. He did deserve it.
I only brought it up, in a discussion about Joyce’s anger and potential for violence, that in a situation that she has several things that could make her angry and has gotten violent for less, the most righteous reasons for said anger are not voiced. And the reason is made even more vague by what she does voice immediately afterwards since it seemingly has nothing to do with the most righteous reasons.
To me, it is objectively vague what in particular set her off, while leaving the result of said anger perfectly justifiable. I’m not attempting to say anything else about it. No hidden meanings or implications. We don’t know 100% why she cut him. We’re just very very very very sure.
It’s not the “bursting into the room” that I was talking about, it was the grabbing Walky by his shirt, etc. that I was referring to. You don’t get to put your hands on people like that.
I’ve said it repeatedly now that you don’t get to hit people simply because they’re jerks. That’s childish thinking. Do we, as a whole, attack people for annoying us, angering us, or hurting our feelings? Yes. Is that right? No. Should we do it? No. Can it have negative and unforeseen consequences? Yes.
In regards to your question about Walky, as I said in my last, and extremely long winded comment, as well as this one, it wasn’t the busting into the room so much as the grabbing and yelling and disrespecting him as a person/disrespecting his right to make his own romantic choices, which Walky didn’t do to Dina (though he did apparently bowl her over).
I don’t remember Walky threatening Joe with violence over cartoons, but I can easily see him doing so as Walky can be imagined to say almost anything. However, unlike Joyce, I doubt Walky would actually be violent towards him. For one thing, his constant snark makes it hard to take anything he says seriously. For another, not only does he not show anger often, he actively tries to avoid any genuine emotions, especially the negative ones. Maybe I’ll change my mind if I read the strip you’re referring to.
And lastly, I don’t think Walky has ever been violent towards Mike. I may be wrong, but I doubt it because I’ve actually wished he would, so I like to think I would have remembered it.
If you want to post either of those strips or just tell me around when to look for them, I’ll gladly look at them. And I will let you know if I my opinion changed or not.
No, I don’t think Walky’s been violent towards Mike. Which is partly why Mike still screws with him.
Right or wrong, like it or not, Joyce’s tactics towards Mike seem to be working.
Kicking Mike is generally appropriate. In that instance, it shortcutted his usual manipulative bullshit and was probably the most effectively anyone’s handled him.
But yes, in general Joyce has some anger issues. Among her other problems.
Walky, in fact, isn’t good enough for Dorothy. Memory suggests that it was Mike hitting Joe, not Joyce. And finally kicking Mike is always appropriate. Why would you deprive him of the enjoyment?
While Mike may have been the one dishing out most of the punishment, it is quite likely that Joyce got a few shots in herself. (After the date, Joe specifically says “YOU punched me in the face”, and Joyce says “OUR fists were instruments of the lord”. And later on Joyce asks how a girl’s punch can hurt a man.)
That’s what’s confusing, because I’m commenting to the aether about Jocelyne talking to .joyce, who Jocelyne hasn’t come out to. So I’m talking about a situation in which Jocelyne would be calling herself a he to the person they were talking to and the person they were talking to would only have seen them as a he.
But WE know he’s a she. I just didn’t want to use the wrong term in relation to the context in which they were being discussed.
Pretty sure that Joyce doesn’t read the comment section.
You are going to get someone on your case no matter which way you go, but in this particular comment section, use of the masculine case will offend more people. In real life, it’s worth while to invest the time to find out what the person in question prefers. For a cartoon character, they aren’t going to be hurt no matter what you call them, so just stick with a gender neutral, they when you can. If you worry about it at all.
My concern was whether context of the situation discussed mattered, who was being talked to and whether or not said person was aware at the time of the conversation. Not whether a cartoon character’s feelings would be hurt.
But since the context apparently doesn’t matter, per you and the others who took the time to clear things up for me, I’m good using “she” and “her” from now on.
Thanks for the clarification.
If this were a real person we were discussing who was closted trans, the correct thing to do would be to refer to her as a he unless it was a private conversation and you knew for a fact that everybody involved is allowed to know.
In the case of a fictional character, literally everybody in the real world is allowed to know, so you can call her “she” without outing her to her fictional family. The only thing that would be accomplished by calling her “he” or “him” would be to make actual trans people in the comments section feel like you aren’t respecting their feelings.
If we were other characters in the comic who Jocelyn had come out to, we would have to misgender and deadname her in public to avoid outing her. But since we aren’t, that isn’t necessary, so there’s no reason not to refer to her as Jocelyn and use the correct she/her pronouns, since that’s what she prefers.
(Sidenote: Anyone offended by someone correctly referring to Jocelyn as a woman can safely be ignored or told to STFU)
It could have been. If he really hadn’t wanted it, there’s a pretty good case for it. If either the genders or the power dynamics had been reversed (and don’t forget Sal had already shown she was physically dominant), it would easily have been seen as such.
Had Jason not been into it, it would have been. That’s one of the tricky things with sexual assault. The same behavior can be either perfectly fine or a crime, depending on the other party’s response. If you’re going to jump on someone and start tearing their clothes off, you want to be pretty damn sure they’re okay with it.
Here’s how this is gonna go, Sal is going to help Jason keep his job so he can tutor Walky. I don’t know whose idea this is going to be, maybe Walky will request this of Sal. But I think that’s what is going to go down.
Only Sal, being Sal, is going to make it sound like a shake-down: “I’ll help you keep your job on the clear understanding that you tutor my idiot brother to the absolute best of your ability… and I reserve the right to change my mind if I think that you’re not taking this seriously because I don’t think you took it seriously with me.”
For sure and I’m not saying there wouldn’t be consequences regarding the law but I wouldn’t blame him
This is why Walky is my most disliked character, not hated character like Blaine, Ross, Ryan, Mary etc but most disliked, even more than I dislike Ruth
Hilariously, Walky, despite being so disliked, is probably one of the most honest/realistic characters in the whole case. It’s called ‘Dumbing of Age’ for a reason, they’re a bunch of dumb kids just out of high school trying to tackle serious moral and emotional quandaries for which they are completely unprepared.
Walky tries to be a good person but has the same self-absorbed tunnel vision as anyone else in his position(favorite kid of a doting mother and laid-back father). So his foot spends a lot of time in his mouth.
What, you mean for refusing to boost her grades in exchange for sex? Or because he’s a snob and looks down on her punk ways? Or because he walked her back to her dorm that one time when she was too drunk to walk properly?
In exchange for the sex they already had. Being offended that she thought it was an exchange instead of o crap I should have at least clarified first. Generally blaming Sal for his decision. Getting offended that she found a decent tutor.
Thinking about this a little more: This administration really sucks. They’ve got a suspected case of a TA seducing a student and they don’t actually do any investigation, they expect him to defend himself. Okay, that’s bad enough, but take it a step further: They don’t contact the affected student. They don’t question the affected student. They leave it up to the TA to go to the student and apply whatever pressure or bribes he can to get her to deny anything happened.
This is actually, while seemingly unfair to the accused at first glance, actually a recipe for perpetuating the problem. (Or would be, if it wasn’t Jason.)
We’ve already established that IU’s administration is useless. You only have to look at the way they rolled over and allowed Clint to dictate Ruth’s life and relationships in order to avoid making an effort. Hell, look at how Chloe basically ignored Ruth’s extensive problems just to have an easy life. Look how the administration handed off safety advice after Ross’s rampage on the individual TAs (some of whom might not be even 20 years old yet) rather than spend time, effort and money on more effective forms of education, outreach, counselling and security.
These people are not in any way ‘conscientious’. I bet that the only reason why Penny is being fired is due to potential embarrassment. IMO, if there was any way they could have swept the whole Ryan thing under the rug, they would have.
They don’t actually know the affected student. Honestly, they’re probably just going through the motions. If he showed up and said “No I didn’t”, given the flimsiness of the claim, they’d probably just say “Okay, good. Don’t do it in the future.” and let him go. But if they don’t at least go through the motions, and it turns out to be true later, it makes them look really bad, so there you go.
Jason is just giving up easily because he knows he actually is guilty.
I wonder if there is an element of guilt to it too: He knows he has had an affair with a student, which was wrong, and didn’t even give her what she wanted in return, which is wrong to a whole degree. He took the offered reward and didn’t even really bother to help Sal in any way.
It’s a sort of interesting moral question. Is accepting bribes and not following through more or less moral than accepting bribes and living up to your end of the bargain?
But Jason didn’t know it was a bribe. What she says before grabbing his shirt isn’t “Ah can get a higher grade lahk this” or anything, she says “Ah’ve been without a lot of things for a while,” and then “Yeah, y’know what? You’ll do.” I don’t think Jason’s at fault for not realizing she was proposing an exchange, instead thinking she was attracted to him. (She does also say, “ah’m only bein’ judged against my marks,” but even that’s not an explicit offer of exchange, AND by that point she’s half naked on top of his lap.)
Additionally, it’s common practice in my department to turn students’ papers in such a way that you can’t see the name before you issue the grade, to prevent unconscious bias. So he may not have even noticed he was grading that low.
I think that would make things more complicated. We have 50-80 students per term. How would we hand their work back if their names weren’t on it somewhere?
I would say both yes and no. On one hand, he did screw up an agreement, which is bad, but on the other hand if he had graded Sal’s paper and given her a better grade, she wouldn’t have been able to earn the pride of actually learning the material. I would say in the long run, Sal is happier with having a tutor that fits more into her style (Danny) then just sleeping through grades.
They didn’t -have- an agreement. She assumed the agreement was implicit but did not discuss it until after the fact. I would also argue that no one is under a moral obligation to honor an agreement that is immoral to begin with, but that’s more complicated.
But they’re apparently telling him he can defend himself by mounting “a counterargument with the affected student”. Now, obviously he knows who that is, but if he was actually innocent what would he do? Who would he bring to mount the counterargument?
And if he was guilty and a real creep, not Jason, this would be where he’d go to the student and pressure her to clear his name. Leaving it up to the perpetrator to contact the victim, rather than questioning her themselves is horribly negligent.
But they haven’t likely been given a name. Yeah, it’s possible they may have figured out indirectly that this is about Sal, because he -did- ask another TA (Penny) to grade her papers for him, but we don’t actually know that. The administration might not know who the student is, and they probably don’t even think there actually -is- a student. I’d bet they’re probably thinking “this is a parting shot from an irate employee who is on her way out the door, so we’re just going to ask about it for the record.”
But then the “ask about it for the record” can’t be phrased as “mount a counterargument with the affected student”, if they don’t think there actually was such a student.
There’s no actual evidence that Jason and Sal banged, so he could just go present the case that “my asshole coworker who you were already firing and who never liked me told you a lie to try and get me fired too because misery loves company.”
I mean sure, he DID actually bang Sal, but they don’t need to know that… then again, Jason has been a pretty awful TA so I don’t really care if he gets fired or not apart from the fact that Walky needs someone to teach him now that he’s finally serious
While I know Sal isn’t a snitch I’m guessing she isn’t the type of person to actively lie to let someone get away with abusing their authority. And considering the fact that Jason has proven himself to be a shit tutor she might decide that whoever replaces him might be a better tutor for Walky anyways. So no she might not tattle but that does not mean she’s going to help Jason with his defense either.
Wait, I’m a bit lost. Did Penny – who didn’t know her accusations were true – actually name Sal? Because if not, he can just say “I am unable to mount a counterargument with the affected student, because there is no such student. Your move.”
The way Jason’s expression changes between panels 4 and 5 makes me think that something has occurred to him. Something that he doesn’t LIKE, but may possibly get him out of this jam. Possibly.
I happen to NOT be on the “let’s all hate Jason” train, because while I never found him admirable, I thought his interactions with Sal were very interesting. I’m curious to see if this will cause them to have to talk to each other again, but I suspect a swerve may be coming.
Well, if Penny provided a name, especially if it was anyone other than Sal, then there’d be a chance to corroborate stories and deny the accusations. I mean, I’d certainly call a student wrongly accused of sleeping with a TA affected
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“Tell my boss that I’ve been fired”
(It’s Mueller Time)
**Groan!**
If this doesn’t lead to Walky testifying with a wig on and some grapefruits down his shirt, the gods of comedy will cry out in anguish.
Hell, Walky can just be himself and they’d believe him.
So, you’re saying that Jason had him dress up for there tutoring session?
Some guys like the boyish look for Sal! *points to Walky*
But the wig has to be made out of seaweed.
Not a detached mop head?
“Not in a million years.”
Carney Dante is my spirit animal.
to be clear, Lingo is referencing an old gag from It’s Walky!. Squad 128 needed someone with Sal’s Silhouette to distract He who would be named Dexter in Dumbing of Age… so Walky fashioned a Sal-wig out of seaweed.
That’s for reading yesterday’s comments first… very much seconded. I only hope Walky is using something better than seaweed this time.
What affected student? They’ve got no evidence that he’s slept with a student and something tells me Sal ain’t gonna go talking. She’s got no reason to care.
Well, she genuinely hates Jason for how he treated her.
Yes, but she could be “charged” with attempting to bribe him, in exchange for grades. Which is what she did. So, prisoner’s dilemma. And further, Penny might have picked Sal as the supposed bangie.
So the only solution is to perjure herself?
I didn’t say there was a solution. She might just keep quiet, and not testify one way or another.
Well he’s still fired as you don’t get innocent until proven guilty in firings.
Yes, but it depends on what the university actually knows. If the only evidence is the testimony of someone who herself was just fired, Jason should be able to survive. Maybe not, but I’ve survived food service with a boss that hated me because the only complaints against me never had any merit.
Memory suggests that Sal’s position was that she wasn’t a narc. Jason’s position should be “what affected student?” Admitting that he knows which affected student means there is one. And if Penny in fact mentioned Sal, he can point out and provide evidence that he had another TA grade her to avoid any appearance of … Oh, crud. Penny is the other TA he had mark Sal’s coursework, isn’t she. Okay, he’s screwed.
I do kind of wonder if there’s a reason he only says “affected student” – other than the obvious narrative (and maybe in character) one of not wanting to drop that drama bomb to Walky. Yet.
If Penny didn’t name Sal, then “affected student” is either a fishing expedition or a trap. Would explain why the admins haven’t contacted Sal though.
Yeah, in the current scenario, outright denial should be a viable strategy for Jason. Without some form of corroboration, the administration has no reason to pursue this.
Now, there is one other road to hijinks, here: If she actually DID name a student, but it isn’t Sal. So he has to approach, say, Dorothy and ask her to confirm to the panel that she and her Brit TA have not been doin’ the deed.
And, of course, there’s always the chance that she named one of his male students. Say, someone he’s spent a lot of time in his office with, lately….
@thejeff Presumably he’s simply direct-quoting the e-mail at this point.
@HeySo, if so, then they’ve told him he can only defend himself by bringing in the student he had sex with to tell them he didn’t have sex with her.
“That’s some catch, that Catch-22”
@thejeff Yeah, an accusation without physical evidence or identity of party affected can’t really be taken seriously. Ergo, like other commenters have assumed, Sal may have already been pointed out by Penny (perhaps understandably, as only Sal and Walky have been seen going to tutoring with Jason thus far, and Penny was, as others have noted, likely the one to have graded Sal’s work in place of Jason).
Why would they even call her? Nobody but Jason knows he slept with Sal. There’s literally no way anyone’s gonna find out unless Sal finds out this is happening, or Jason admits it.
Penny probably provided a name.
Penny admitted she just made it up.
Then she might have provided anyone.
The only female student Penny has seen Jason with is Sal.
Looking up the Jason+Penny tag shows that at least.
And even then, she believed he only intended to be Sal’s math tutor. Remember yesterday, where she was genuinely surprised Jason got frisky with a student?
He DID specifically ask her to grade someone’s [Sal’s] papers.
At least, I think he asked her.
You’re assuming she provided a girl’s name. If you’re going for the lulz, go big. And, which male student has been spending a lot of time in Jason’s office, lately?
But she didn’t, she made the entire thing up. What name could she possibly have provided?
Mary.
Joyce!
I would really hope not. I mean, you can’t really blame Penny for it (she isn’t an expert of every student of course), but I really wouldn’t want the Christian girl who was nearly raped having to explain that she didn’t sleep with the TA.
That would be extremely uncomfortable for everyone.
All the more reason for Willis to do it.
Was Joyce’s near rape reported to anyone?
Literally any name on their student list?
Or, as I speculated, she just gave the name of the student who’s stuff he’s been asking her to mark, assuming she’s the TA he gave Sal’s stuff to.
Walky!
Joe.
plz provide pix of Jason & Joe in flagrante testosterono
thaADVANCEnks
–Dave, … i need them for a school project
ps: this would be a motivation for me to sign up for slipshine
‘advance in thanks’?
ITYM advaTHANKSnce
That would require her looking up who’s in his classes, which is more effort than I see her doing in the moment. Unless she made the claim via email or remembered the Sal interaction enough to give a vague description. (In which case, damn Penny.)
If she gave a name, which I don’t think she did, I hope it was just “Walkerton” which she heard Jason muttering about at some point. Because shenanigans.
My theory is that she’s the TA he gave Sal’s stuff to mark. That, plus being asked not to tell about his ‘scheduling irregularity’ and I can see it just being a name she’d throw out.
That is possible, yeah. We already know her first instinct with that meeting was sex (could’ve been a joke, could’ve been instinct, but I half-think she assumes everyone’s as corrupt as she is and she happened to get it right this once). If there were other indications I could see her jumping on them, especially to tank someone with her.
There must be A name somewhere, since Jason’s only real recourse is to counter argue with the affected student. No affected student mentioned and that kinda becomes impossible. Heck, it’s possible Penny just blurted out any name he’s TA-ing for. They both TA for Rees, shot in the dark they both have access to his class list.
True. Thinking on it, there actually being a name would make it sound legitimate and not just post-firing spite. I’m just surprised she would remember a presumably random name from another class section in the moment, based on how bad my professors were with their own, smaller classes.
She might just remember because, for some unexplained reason, Jason gave her this one particular student’s papers to grade.
Yeah if that’s confirmed in the next couple days I would not be surprised. It’d explain a lot.
“i dont know you. you dont exist”
Read the room, Walky. Or hallway, as the case may be.
That would be even further outside of Walky’s skillset than the math he came here to learn
i dont believe walky even possesses that skill
Well I mean, given Jason technically isn’t fired YET, I think he does still have a responsibility to teach walky math.
Only if it’s his office hours. Otherwise, he can tell him to come back on Tuesday, by which time he’ll be gone. 🙂
10-1 Jason blames Sal for seducing him or is angry with her for not speaking on his behalf because she hates him for treating her like a harlot.
She did seduce him and she was mad because he didn’t give her anything in exchange for sex.
Not that I’m saying it’s her fault. He should have been slightly harder to seduce, as he was the one in the actual position of authority. For example, he could have done… literally anything else.
I don’t really like the “let’s flip the genders and see how this plays out” trick, but….I mean, if Joe had been the one to jump over a desk and take off his pants whilst astride Penny, would anyone be saying “Penny can’t be raped because she’s a TA”?
It’s a weird situation and it’s not as simple as “Jason is completely at fault for not saying no”.
There’s a very big line between voluntary sex and rape which is labeled consent. The consent being on the part of Jason who took Sal up on the offer. If Joe made an offer to Penny to have sex by ripping his shirt off and she had sex with him voluntarily (i.e. exactly what happened reverse gender wise) it would still be skeevy as hell–because she’s the one who grades his papers.
Sal didn’t rape Jason. I think it’s clear he consented to what was happening and what continued to happen.
But again, I’m looking at the two strips where the sex started (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/01-if-the-shoes-split/without/ and http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/01-if-the-shoes-split/whatsallthis/) and it’s not just “hey let’s have sex” “ok”, either. Like I mentioned in another comment, Sal sweeps his desk clean, jumps OVER the desk to pin him to his chair, and rips off his clothes, and Jason does *absolutely nothing* to indicate that’s something he wanted or was offering.
That’s what I want someone in the comic to call out. Her violent behavior toward Jason.
I’m cool if Jason gets fired for this, he shouldn’t have had sex with her and continued to have sex with her. That’s not the point I’m trying to make here.
If he hadn’t gone along with it, it probably would count as sexual assault.
But she read him well enough to correctly guess that he would go along with it, despite his scruples.
I doubt Sal’s even going to hear about this until the firing’s a done deal, unless Walky spills the beans for whatever random reason. The implication of this strip, to me, is that Jason’s not even going to bother asking Sal to lie. If he’s mad at anyone, he’s mad at himself for being a human person who made a bad decision (twice) instead of the automaton who’s fine with existing in a state of total loneliness that everyone thinks he should be.
He doesn’t need to be ‘in a state of total loneliness’ but it is not okay to bang his student.
*Taps plays in the background*
You can’t start a fire
Worrying about your little world falling apart
This gun’s for hire
Even if we’re just Dancing In The Dark…
We didn’t start the fire
It’s been burning
Since the world’s been turning
hey college girl, is yer daddy home?
did he go and leave you all alone? oh woh
i got a bad desire…
oh-o-oh i’m on fire
–Dave, burning for you
ps: I had a dream about a bur-ning house…
…on a kazoo, to capture the appropriate amount of dignity
YES. XD
Don’t mind me, just getting myself a mug for those tears.
Remember the tea. They’re British tears, after all.
I mean, Sal seems to just be annoyed by Jason’s presence. Which is better than she is with a lot of people.
They don’t even know he’s been boffing anyone, but: say he needs someone to fill the role of “affected student” and be on his side. Say Sal is like, “Fuck off.” Then Walky shows up. Shenanigans ensue.
“Listen, Sal, I want you to explain we didn’t have sex even though you threw yourself at me because you wanted to trollop yourself for grades. I, being too noble to deface my teaching position by changing the grades–though I still slept with you because you clearly wanted me.” – Jason’s argument translated from Snooty Englishman.
Honestly, that sounds like something Jason would say. And if he does, he deserves what he gets.
Hasn’t what he’s done already warranted whatever he gets?
Well, if they don’t know who the affected student is… he should be fine. Is Sal really interested enough in the system to cooperate and tell them everything? She didn’t make the complaint, Penny did… and she didn’t know who he slept with. Like she said, she did it for funsies.
Well, Sal genuinely feels degraded by Jason and hates him on a personal level.
Yeah, but so does everyone else in his class.
Administrator interrupts class, comes to front.
“Students, it has come to our attention that one or more of you may have been engaging in sexual congress with Mr. Chesterfield. If this has is determined to have happened, then he will be disciplined accordingly, resulting in, at a minimum, his termination. We understand that this is an uncomfortable subject, so we wish to stress that we understand that with his position of authority you may have felt compelled to acquiesce to his advances, and this fact will not be held against you. The only matter being examined here is Mr. Chesterfield’s guilt and subsequent fate.”
The class is silent for a moment.
All hands but one raise. Joyce looks around, then has a mental breakdown.
Issue: He needs to bring an “affected student” to plead his case. The only case he has is saying that there isn’t one.
I think he needs to bring the student he’s accused of boffing and have them say, “No, we didn’t.”
Sal getting someone else entangled in the system on purpose? No way. She knows justice is not the thing done very often.
Actually, she’s more likely to tell tall tales then tell tales.
Penny pretty much has to have named Sal or none of this would make any sense. If she didn’t name anyone, then there is no “affected student” to mount a counterargument with.
Fired via email without any mediation?
That is fucked uo.
I think you’re misreading the comic.
He’s not fired yet, the email is about the tribunal.
He’s fired unless he challenges it–which he can only challenge if he lies and gets her to lie–because he’s guilty.
Oh, yeah, hopefully he’s fired, but this email is not the actual firing.
I did miss read it.
Different issue, I don’t know how they would know about an affected student. Couldn’t he just say, “there Isn’t one”?
Penny has to have named Sal, after seeing them together for the “irregular hours tutoring session”, even if she thought they hadn’t actually done anything.
Walky, eff right off. It’s not funny to kick someone when they’re down. If anyone deserves to kick Jason, it’s Sal.
Speaking of, I wonder if Sal will speak against him, does she dislike Jason or the university government more?
Who she hates the most is her mother, who will try and come down on her if this gets out.
And there’s good odds this is on its way to the dean’s desk (the List is probably there already if it made it to the faculty, particularly in the wake of the rapist incident.) If there’s a name attached and he recognizes it, shit will fly.
Dramatically speaking, I think it’s very possible that this gets back to her parents.
This is not going to be terribly fun for her.
Though, the simplest approach to that is for Sal to lie. “He was just tutoring me. Nothing else happened. That other TA was just making up stories.”
Then even if it gets back to her parents, what are they going to say?
The dean once was married to Sal’s mother if I remember correctly? He will definitely recognize the name, if it’s there.
I don’t think Walky is attempting to kick Jason. He’s doing what he always does, breeze by the hard and awkward with an unhealthy amount of snark.
That said, since Jason isn’t fired, it’s still technically his office hours and Walky does need some tutoring…what? Is he going to take the rest of the day off?
Reading this strip, it looks to me like Jason’s not going to fight. Faced with either getting another person, who he’s aware has no reason to be fond of him and with whom whatever bridges he had are burned, to lie to a tribunal with him or being fired, he skips straight to ‘yup, I’m fired’.
IF (and it’s a big if) Jason is saved from this and my read is right, it’ll be because other people decide to do it on their own, not because he asked or pled for help.
I’d be really surprised if Sal decided to testify on Jason’s behalf.
Why would she? Even theoretically?
Well, theoretically, because Walky could beg her and promise her things. I don’t know if that’d be enough to persuade her, but if her stance is, “I don’t care one way or the other” and then she can get something out of one option…
But wouldn’t Walky then even have to admit to Sal that he needs tutoring?
Sal doesn’t know about that, right?
That’s my point, I don’t think she would.
I could see her maybe doing it if he manages to actually help Walky.
I can’t see Sal doing that. She goes drinking in pubs, even though she isn’t allowed yet. I don’t think she’s a hypocrite.
Cause she hates the system.
I’m rather sure she wouldn’t testify against him either, she dislikes the system so why function for it?
I can’t believe she got him fired for funsies.
That is a kind of ex-related revenge. Methinks she had more of an issue with their relationship than she let on.
This is Penny. I can.
He did actually do the bad thing.
But SHE didn’t know it, so from her perspective, she just effed him over for no good reason.
I can’t argue with that.
Which is unfortunate, because I feel like I want to.
Not that I have any love for Jason as a character, getting fired by e-mail is effed up.
I was suspended for an offense, then told to come in several days later only to be frisked at the gate then brought to an office to be told I was fired for a completely different offense.
Couldn’t go to my locker to get my stuff.
Couldn’t say goodbye to my friends and coworkers.
Was told I couldn’t be on the property or else I would be arrested for trespassing, which also meant I couldn’t apply for a different job position in another department as it was all company property.
I’d been there 9 years.
What. The. Heck?! O.o
Way to treat your employee…
Yep. As you can no doubt guess, I’m still a bit bitter about that.
I once had to pay a company to FedEx my own property back to me after they had someone I’d never met before fire me over the phone on Friday night and explicitly tell me I was not allowed on the property to retrieve it and they’d just throw everything in my locker away if I didn’t send them a check for FedEx fees.
That’s fucked up. They couldn’t even like, give it to a friendly coworker and let them walk outside to hand it to you?
He hasn’t technically been fired. He’s been informed that there are allegations against him and he needs to defend himself to a tribunal. He just knows he did the thing that he’s been accused of and in this moment doesn’t feel capable of defending himself.
Uh wouldn’t Sal showing up to say “yes we boinked” also get her expelled from school?
Probably not. Usually the teacher gets canned, and the student gets probation or some other stupid shit.
I’m pretty sure no, unless things are seriously fucked up.
All signs are Indiana U is a horrible horrible but very believable university.
Yeah, by “seriously fucked up” I mean, “even more fucked up than my current level of understanding this place as fucked up.”
Well, she’s a black female student and he’s white and upper crust acting male. So, who knows.
A black female student whose mother is friends with the dean. Granted her mother hates her, so she might not fight it, but still.
Oh god, if Linda even HEARS the phrase ‘Sal slept with her TA’ I guarantee all manner of hell will break loose for that poor girl.
Yeah that wouldn’t be expulsion, that would be ‘parent pulls the student out and sends her to the strictest religious school that’ll take her.’ *shudders*
Yeah, there would be some sort of reckoning with Linda and Charles, mark my words.
Said school turns out to be Anderson.
At least Anderson teaches evolution? (According to their course descriptions anyways).
So I’m gonna throw out a crazy idea. What if Jason and Sal talk like human being instead of this darkest timeline shit you keep pushing. Jason grows as a person, and Sal gains a friend. Maybe Jason keeps his job or maybe he doesn’t either way both people are left better than they were were before.
A) That really doesn’t have anything to do with what Sal’s parents will do if they find out.
B) That requires Jason to not act like a jackass to her for five minutes. I’m not holding my breath.
C) That also requires Sal to respect Jason enough. Again, possible, but I find it unlikely.
No, why would she? He’s a TA and as such is expected to be responsible. She’s just a student.
She has to show up and say they didn’t. But only if they did, otherwise she’s not the “affected student.”
Right?
Probably not, no. like even if she were disciplined, that would be rather extreme, especially when he was the one with the authority, rather than her.
Short answer no. Long answer, basically with these power dynamics the onus is on the one with the power to not do shit like this, because consent means jack shit when the person can make your life he’ll for refusing. Like, if Jason has said to Sal outright ‘I’ll change your grades if you sleep with me’ they might review her grades but the focus is definitely going to be on the dude who coerced at least one student for sex. And they don’t want the reputation of expelling people who come forward in case there’s a scenario where students are, say, getting artificially bad grades unless they have sex with the TA. (In theory at least. In practice schools tend to be more of the cover that shit up bend, but that coming out with the news it was hushed up is even worse than an isolated incident breaking – it’s not a perfect comparison, but think the Penn State Sandusky scandal.) Basically, Joe can hit on Penny all he wants and he’s an ass but there’s no academic consequences, but if Penny responds or hits on him first she’s the one who should know better.
You know, reading this made me realize why I don’t seem to be quite as emotionally against this as the comic says I should be.
My experience as an university student always was that TAs had more or less zero power, and in some ways were less powerful than us students. They basically were just grunts and we regularly made mockeries out of all of them and at all times went directly to the teacher if we needed anything. So I have trouble seeing a TA as having a power dynamic over anyone. But it would seem it’s different in the US.
No, TAs are pretty much slave-wage labor with a teacher’s workload and none of that teacher’s security. It’s a shitty gig at many universities depending on your professor but you have to do it to get the job you actually want.
It’s definitely grunt work, but in this particular case it’s been made clear that the TAs do at least some of the grading, which gives them definite power over the students.
TA!
Not anymore!
Walkie learn to read a room!
Isn’t mounting with the affected student the kind of thing that would get Jason into this mess in the first place?
Why did it take 15 minutes for someone to post this comment
So, now that Jason isn’t a TA, he can totally bang Walky, right?
Even if Jason wanted to teach him after this, Walky would still be better off finding someone who’s actually good at teaching to help him.
The problem is that any other tutor might actually leave after the first few insults.
Additionally Walky’s refusal to make any effort to learn means we still don’t actually know if he could have learned from Jason.
Seriously, the best teacher on earth can’t help you if you refuse to engage with the subject matter in any way and instead spend your entire session mocking them.
They should also give their attention to other students who, I dunno, might need it and be willing to.
He’s lucky Sal doesn’t like snitchin
Oh, something I was thinking about for the comment section: is there a way to have the comment number displayed for each comment? Like around in the area for the time stamp? I know you can permalink to starter comments, but I’m talking about something besides that.
For example, Ana Chronistic’s would have a #1 by it and then if I replied to it later, my comment would have a #83 or whatever comment number by it and such.
I think this would be useful for finding new comments on a strip– like if there were 79 comments when I last checked and now there are 86 and I wanted to read the new ones, I could ctrl+f “#8” and start finding them. People could also use it to direct others to comments in a thread (ones that cannot be permalinked individually), so I could be like, “See C.T Phipps comment #17.”
I don’t know if this is possible, and if it’d be difficult to do it probably wouldn’t be worth it, but I think it’d be interesting.
Your comment is #1310868. See the # symbol next to the reply? That will give you the link to your comment. So, yes, it’s not only possible, it’s how it’s meant to be done.
“I know you can permalink to starter comments, but I’m talking about something besides that.”
You could use the comments RSS feed. But, then you would have to subscribe and unsubscribe alot.
At least the comments auto-lock after a few days.
well, if you dig in the source iirc all comments have numbers (and when I hit reply I should get a url with the # of this comment in it) but that’s not too useful for finding new comments.
slightly more useful is the rss feed. which reminds me, what’s up with that lately? the ones for a single comic seem to work fine, but are quite inconvenient (my tablet is slowly filling up with them) and the feed for all comments has been broken on-and-off for several weeks now. (unless that’s just me… oh, but it’s been working again the last few hours)
Dammit walky read the fucking room.
Jason’s whole world is crashing around him, huh.
Still wondering if he’s got an abusive father like in the walkyverse. There’s gotta be some reason for him to be in America.
He mentions that he didn’t have an “insipid dorm life” to make friends, so I’m guessing his undergraduate was done back in Britain, and then for… some reason chose to go to a whole other country for his graduate? TAs are usually graduates right?
So my guess is either a) getting away from a bad family or b) back when he and penny were still boffing they decided to go to the same school for graduate studies. Or maybe both. Hmm.
Depending on how family relations carry over from the Walkyverse (I don’t know, haven’t read any), I wouldn’t put much significance on the fact that Jason chose to do his graduate degree in the US. The US is full of pretty good schools and in general funding for PhDs in the US is a lot more readily available than in the UK, given that it’s normally in the form of TAships rather than just a grant from some body, or in many cases just having to self fund.
I’m currently in the situation where I’ve applied exclusively to US institutions for my PhD having lived and studied in the UK simply because I couldn’t afford the taught masters in economics I’d need to do to study economics at a doctoral level later.
Good news: Walky can talk to Sal about his tutor and get directed to someone who actually knows how to teach.
Bad news: That someone is Danny, his ex(ish)-girlfriend’s ex-boyfriend, and Walky has childish notions of what girlfriend’s ex-boyfriends should do.
And Danny doesn’t think much of Walky, anyway, with just as little reason as Walky does for his feeling towards him. It just wouldn’t be a good situation.
So did Penny just guess Sal?
Can’t Jason just say that Penny was being vindictive and made the allegations because she didn’t want to be the only one fired?
Because despite the….. truth.
That is what happened.
She probably pulled A name, and she did have the shady ‘these aren’t my office hours but let me kick you out and have a one-on-one with this student’ interaction with him and Sal as evidence at minimum. If as BBCC suggests she was also the TA grading Sal’s papers for him, it becomes much easier to see something up. (I mean, it could have been some ‘don’t tell anyone because of contracts or something’ situation, but we know it’s not.)
But it was some “don’t tell anyone because of contracts or something” situation. It started out completely innocent. It just evolved into something else.
Sure, we know that. But if that happened, plus he later makes Penny grade Sal’s papers and ONLY Sal’s, it looks far more suspect.
It’s possible Sal will deny everything just so she can hold that over on Jason.
wait.. what affected student?
You tutor many. Your claim is “I didn’t do anything, she was just trying to get me fired as well”
Except for when you just.. now.. said it.. there was no proof of any kind
aand it sounds like.. they’re asking YOU to bring the “affected student” ?
SCHOOL’S OUT FOREVER!!!
One does not simply snog a student.
One does not simply snog a student into Mordor.
Fixed that for you.
I know TAs are important and everything, but would Jason really be a net loss to that grouping? Would not being a TA really be a net loss for Jason, for that matter?
It’s more than losing his job – Jason told Sal if he gets busted for this, he’s getting kicked from his program too.
Plus, getting busted for something like that will probably mean his overall academic career will be done for. He will probably not be able to change universities, and continue his program somewhere else…
Good, because he’s guilty and deserves it.
It must be amazing to never have been guilty of anything.
Yeah, but he’s actually guilty of the thing he’s being busted for, even if the person accusing him didn’t know that.
Yeah, but Penny didn’t know that when she accused him. She just wanted to make Jason’s life difficult.
It’s like if I didn’t like the comments you made in this comment section, so I accused you of murder, and it turned out that you actually murdered someone. Whether or not you were actually guilty of the crime wouldn’t make me any less of an asshole for making an accusation under false pretenses.
Also, who is listed as the affected student? Be a remarkable coincidence if that mark was hit dead on as well.
Not so much of a coincidence, given that Jason was having her grade Sal’s papers, so that may be the only name she new *to grab* and use.
Actually, I think that Jason is going to be okay. Sal, by her nature, isn’t the sort of woman who will want to rake this whole matter over the coals. Jason may think that she’s going to be bitter and want to hurt him out of revenge but that just doesn’t seem to me to be the sort of way she’d react.
I mean, Jason did ask Penny at least once to cover for him and Sal using the office out of hours, so it’s not a stretch for her to throw her name out as the affected student especially considering the conversation those three had was rather…charged.
But I can’t see Sal throwing Jason under the bus or opting not to lie at the tribunal to cover for him if she decides to testify. Even if he was an ass and he deserves it.
All I want is for someone in the comic to say “so, Sal basically assaulted him the first time”. I don’t want Sal expelled, I don’t want her punished, I just want someone to acknowledge it.
We’ve had a strip already where Jason explicitly says “is no one going to comment that I’m visibly being transported against my will” and it’s just played for laughs, haha, the big strong man is being pulled around by the little woman, so I don’t have high hopes.
Sal showed her breasts to him and offered to have sex. That’s not assault.
Swept his desk clean, jumped over it so that he was pinned to his chair, and she ripped his shirt open after taking off hers.
I’m not saying she raped him, but it’s not just “hey would you like to have sex with me” either.
That and the sex are different.
Two events separated by, I think, hours.
And while Sal could be said to be aggressive towards the sex, that wasn’t assault.
The grabbing him by his shirt and dragging him around, that could probably be recognized as assault.
Speaking of assault by women in the comic, physical but not sexual, I will say I have been a bit bothered by how no one in universe has seen fit to really call out Joyce for how quickly she becomes violent when angry.
Admittedly, it is occasionally justified, but most of the time it’s not and almost no one tells her she needs to chill with that.
I think Joe did when their date devolved into punching.
And I think Jocelyne (her brother? Sister? I don’t know the word to use considering there hasn’t been any transition and they’re still keeping it a secret from the family they actively spend time with), I think they said something to her. But other than that, I don’t remember anyone saying anything.
Jocelyn was cautioning Joyce against being too quick to burn bridges with her family, because she was going to need them in order to help Becky. That wasn’t about violence, or even because her anger was wrong, so much as a practical advisory.
And I can’t think of a single time she got violent where it was uncalled for besides the date with Joe. Toedad and scarface could not have deserved it more, and other than some completely necessary man handling of Mike, I can’t think of any other incidents
Thanks for clearing that up about Jocelyne. I wasn’t sure what they cautioned her about and didn’t feel like looking it up.
As for Joyce being violent, she busted into Walky’s room and hemmed him up over breaking up with Dorothy, all because she thought he wasn’t worthy to make that decision about his own personal life, because Doeothy is perfect and he isn’t good enough for her.
She also kicked Mike in the shin because he didn’t want to let them into his own room, which she has no right to be in in the first place. And we already talked about Joe.
There may have been other times, but let’s say that’s all of them. That’s five people she got violent with, only two being justified, and the other three over petty things and/or things that were not her business.
Those three didn’t need a violent escalation. She let her opinion and frustration transition into violence way too easily, and has not had any consequences from that, other than the talk with Joe. Her attidude towards her own personal violence makes me think she feels entitled to it, and that is no way to act. On top of which, it could have easily had a negative effect. What if she had damaged her being frenemies with Walky? What if Mike was the kind of guy to hit a woman? What if Joe had called the cops on her and Mike for beating him down in public? In real life, those options could have easily happened.
“Bursting into someone’s room” is not violence. Nor is getting him to fix the stupid mistake he made breaking up with Dorothy over some stupid pants. If I ever did anything that dumb, I hope my own friends would do the same.
It can safely be assumed that Mike deserved it, or would shortly. And whether or not he’d hit her back really has no bearing on whether it’s right for Joyce to got him.
Walky burst into Dina and Amber’s room to get to Dorothy’s to finish a ridiculous heated argument about cartoons, threatened Joe with violence because he suggested cutting back on them, and has gotten at least as “violent” with Mike as you say Joyce was with him. Why is Joyce “too violent”, but he gets a pass?
I just spent several hours (not including several hours for a nap) scanning the 935 Joyce tagged strips looking for signs of anger and violence. I found more and less than I expected. Long story short, Joyce has anger problems, and she easily resorts to violence when angry. Slightly more detailed info to follow if you care to read it.
*Oh, and before I forget, Jocelyne didn’t just suggest Joyce not burn bridges, but did in fact suggest Joyce hide her anger to avoid burning bridges, the same anger that leads to her violence. So it was not a direct conversation about violence, but it was about her anger.*
1. Joyce AND Mike punched Joe repeatedly in the face because Joe looked at another woman with “lustful” eyes. Do I really need to say that’s not right?
2. The very next day, immediately after Joe told off Joyce for punching him in the face and she expressed disbelief at a girl’s fist being able to hurt a guy, Roz makes a statement tantamount to saying she and Joe had sex after the ruined date, and Joyce puts her hands up to punch Joe again, as Joe covers his face.
She’d just been talked to about how punching people like that wasn’t right AND had already written Joe off as future husband material, but still felt entitled to threaten him again with violence for him having sex with someone else after they both agreed they were done. So, with bo claim on Joe and after she was no longer involved with him romantically, she threatened to hit him for being with someone else sexually. Again, that’s not right.
3. This in regards to the Ryan incident. Before anyone jumps to conclusions, i am completely on board with what she did and feel he deserved it.
But in regards to her anger and violence, the strip makes it unclear what exactly she cut him for. She never says she tasted anything wrong with the drink prior to hitting him. He yelled at her, cussed at her, stated that he was going to be alone with her without taking into account her feelings, and called her a tease.
She then looked down at the glass in her hand before striking him across the face. That’s all one strip. The very next strip has her saying he lied to her about being a preacher’s son (which was actually the truth).
So, did Joyce cut him because he roofied her, because he yelled at her, because he cussed at her, because he was trying to rape her (or have sex with her, depending on if she realized he had drugged her yet and whether or not she thought he’d want her consent), because he called her a tease, or because she believed he lied to her?
I’d like to believe it’s because she realized he roofied/wanted to rape her, but, again, the strip is unclear, thus leaving the possibility she cut him for yelling, cussing, name calling, and/or lying to her, and none of those options are appropriate reasons to maim someone’s face, generally speaking.
4. Joyce busted in to Walky’s room and HEMMED HIM UP by his shirt collar while yelling in his face that he wasn’t good enough for Dorothy and thus didn’t get to make decisions about his personal romantic choices in relation to her. The grabbing him by the collar and raising him up on his toes while angrily yelling that he doesn’t have the same worth as a human being as Dorothy is the violent part (though one can easily argue that bursting into someone’s room is indeed violent). Whether you feel Joyce was right in her assessment and decision is irrelevant. It wasn’t her business and she had no right to put her hands on him.
5. When Amber sees Ethan with Joyce for the first time, she gets mad, yells, then pulls him outside while loudly proclaiming that he’s going to explain what’s going on to her. Joyce starts to stand, eyes angry and fists clenched and raised, with the only thing preventing her from going out there seemingly being Dorothy’s hand on her shoulder restraining her and Dorothy saying it seems to be a personal issue between the two of them.
This isn’t that big a deal, as the situation was already heightened by Amber’s behavior, but I bring it up because her body language implies more than just a desire to figure out what’s going on.
6. Kicking Mike. Mike is a jerk. That does not give one the right to kick him. It was early morning. It was his room. And he was under no obligation to tell them anything about anyone who might or might not be in the room. People want to brush off violence because they feel the person earned it, but being a jerk in and of itself is not earning violence.
Also, whether or not Mike would hit her back is important because it’s a potential negative consequence to her actions that she has yet to face in regards to her violent impulses. My whole point about initially bringing this up is that almost no one talks to her about her violence AND she suffers no negative ramifications from it. Also, the way she acts makes me think she feels entitled to let her anger out on people. That plus her views on gender roles, as well as generally being a happy ball of Christian sunshine, makes me think it wouldn’t cross her mind that Mike (or Joe or Walky for that matter) would have really fought her. It’s not that I want them to do that, but I do want to see her anger addressed in some way. We even have two people who could talk to her about it, those being Sal and Amber; they both are dealing with their own anger issues, albeit maybe not in the best way, but they would be good at recognizing that she has a problem.
6. Immediately after she kicks Mike and Dorothy enters the room, in the next strip, she threatens to kick him again simply for saying something she doesn’t like. Again, being a jerk, in and of itself, does not mean one deserves violence.
7. Joyce threatens Joe for hitting on Sarah AFTER Sarah had said she didn’t want him to ever come onto her and Joe said he had no issue as he respected her desire to be left alone by him. Whatever issues people may have with Joe,min this instance he came on to Sarah, was rejected, and acknowledged it with grace and no hint of anger or negativity. Not only did Joyce not need to interject, she didn’t need to threaten violence. This is just another example of her needlessly escalating things in regards to violence.
Now, to be fair, while this is more threats of violence via verbal and nonverbal communication than I initially remembered, there aren’t a LOT of incidents when compared to how many strips there acruelly are. Also, Joyce hasn’t really threatened violence in any way since the talk with Jocelyne. So I have to conclude that I was more bothered by her actions earlier in the comic than I realized since everything I’ve listed is years old. Joyce still has an anger problem I think the comic should address, but I realize my feelings about it are a bit stronger than warranted.
Leaving much of this aside, I think the point of emphasizing the look down at the glass in the Ryan scene is to show that she realized what was going on. Remember that Billie had commented on roofied drinks as they were on their way to the party, so she would have had a clue about it.
The only ones I disagree with are #3 and maybe #7. I agree that Joyce’s behaviour ideally ought not to be ignored. I used to be like that in high school, and neither me nor my friends believed I could hurt them until it happened. (Then I suppressed that anger so hard I forgot it even existed for about a decade (which wasn’t the best solution, but eh)).
otoh, Joyce managed to not threaten Joe when she was mad at him for the toe-crushing, iirc, so, maybe she’s figuring it out on her own?
Oh, it is entirely possible that Joyce realized she was drugged. And, I hope that is the reason for the gash.
While I’ve wasted my day looking for angry Joyce faces, I don’t want her to be so angry that she would cut someone for any of the lesser reasons I listed. But an argument could be made that she did it for the other reasons if only because she never stated why she did it or when she knew she was drugged.
Doing all this has made me think I’ve been projecting some of my feelings from my experiences into wanting to see Joyce talked to about her anger.
As a very large individual who gets loud when excited, I’ve been accused of being angry when I wasn’t all my life, having received many lectures about it and even been accused of having anger management problems by my then supervisor after I was verbally attacked by a coworker.
I’d never even consider most of Joyce’s behavior when angry for the things she was angry about, so I guess I’m a bit sensitive that most people ignore it when I’d have been bombarded with talks in her place.
No, she never stated it – not in the heat of the moment and thanks to the drug her memories aren’t so clear. Not everything needs to be explicitly stated by a character to be clear to us.
His intentions are clear to her. The look down into the glass can only be intended to let us know she realizes it was drugged. There’s no other reason for that shot to be in the strip.
I disagree. The look at the glass could be the realization that she had a weapon available, which is what she actually used it as. There is nothing vague about what she did with the glass. Unlike realizing she was drugged as she said nothing about the drink before or after and only looked at the glass after he yelled at her, which didn’t mention him drugging her and didn’t require her to be drugged for him to be a rapey asshat.
But, if she did realize she was drugged, why are her first words following said realization about him lying to her? Not about him drugging her. Not about him wanting to rape her. Not to get help. Not to get him arrested. It was to reprimand him for lying. And again, he didn’t even lie about that particular thing she was reprimanding him about. The lie is the biggest thing and not the drugging/potential rape?
Believe all you want that she knew. Again, I want to believe that she knew. Doesn’t change the fact that the strip is vague about it.
the comic in question is http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/06-yesterday-was-thursday/smash/ and to me it looks *very* clear that anything after that black text bubble can be considered self-defense. she doesn’t even *have* to realise she was drugged, just notice that he stated some horrifying intentions.
And that is not the point of my bringing it up.
I’m not talking about legalities. It was self defense.
I’m not even talking about if it was deserved. He did deserve it.
I only brought it up, in a discussion about Joyce’s anger and potential for violence, that in a situation that she has several things that could make her angry and has gotten violent for less, the most righteous reasons for said anger are not voiced. And the reason is made even more vague by what she does voice immediately afterwards since it seemingly has nothing to do with the most righteous reasons.
To me, it is objectively vague what in particular set her off, while leaving the result of said anger perfectly justifiable. I’m not attempting to say anything else about it. No hidden meanings or implications. We don’t know 100% why she cut him. We’re just very very very very sure.
my god what is wrong with you, just be quiet please
It’s not the “bursting into the room” that I was talking about, it was the grabbing Walky by his shirt, etc. that I was referring to. You don’t get to put your hands on people like that.
I’ve said it repeatedly now that you don’t get to hit people simply because they’re jerks. That’s childish thinking. Do we, as a whole, attack people for annoying us, angering us, or hurting our feelings? Yes. Is that right? No. Should we do it? No. Can it have negative and unforeseen consequences? Yes.
In regards to your question about Walky, as I said in my last, and extremely long winded comment, as well as this one, it wasn’t the busting into the room so much as the grabbing and yelling and disrespecting him as a person/disrespecting his right to make his own romantic choices, which Walky didn’t do to Dina (though he did apparently bowl her over).
I don’t remember Walky threatening Joe with violence over cartoons, but I can easily see him doing so as Walky can be imagined to say almost anything. However, unlike Joyce, I doubt Walky would actually be violent towards him. For one thing, his constant snark makes it hard to take anything he says seriously. For another, not only does he not show anger often, he actively tries to avoid any genuine emotions, especially the negative ones. Maybe I’ll change my mind if I read the strip you’re referring to.
And lastly, I don’t think Walky has ever been violent towards Mike. I may be wrong, but I doubt it because I’ve actually wished he would, so I like to think I would have remembered it.
If you want to post either of those strips or just tell me around when to look for them, I’ll gladly look at them. And I will let you know if I my opinion changed or not.
No, I don’t think Walky’s been violent towards Mike. Which is partly why Mike still screws with him.
Right or wrong, like it or not, Joyce’s tactics towards Mike seem to be working.
Kicking Mike is generally appropriate. In that instance, it shortcutted his usual manipulative bullshit and was probably the most effectively anyone’s handled him.
But yes, in general Joyce has some anger issues. Among her other problems.
Walky, in fact, isn’t good enough for Dorothy. Memory suggests that it was Mike hitting Joe, not Joyce. And finally kicking Mike is always appropriate. Why would you deprive him of the enjoyment?
While Mike may have been the one dishing out most of the punishment, it is quite likely that Joyce got a few shots in herself. (After the date, Joe specifically says “YOU punched me in the face”, and Joyce says “OUR fists were instruments of the lord”. And later on Joyce asks how a girl’s punch can hurt a man.)
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/03-men-are-from-beck-women-are-from-clark/olives/
Just to chime in that it’s sister. Regardless of transition process, it’s sister the moment Jocelyne realised she was a girl.
Well, unless you’re talking to someone she wouldn’t want her trans status revealed to.
That’s what’s confusing, because I’m commenting to the aether about Jocelyne talking to .joyce, who Jocelyne hasn’t come out to. So I’m talking about a situation in which Jocelyne would be calling herself a he to the person they were talking to and the person they were talking to would only have seen them as a he.
But WE know he’s a she. I just didn’t want to use the wrong term in relation to the context in which they were being discussed.
Pretty sure that Joyce doesn’t read the comment section.
You are going to get someone on your case no matter which way you go, but in this particular comment section, use of the masculine case will offend more people. In real life, it’s worth while to invest the time to find out what the person in question prefers. For a cartoon character, they aren’t going to be hurt no matter what you call them, so just stick with a gender neutral, they when you can. If you worry about it at all.
My concern was whether context of the situation discussed mattered, who was being talked to and whether or not said person was aware at the time of the conversation. Not whether a cartoon character’s feelings would be hurt.
But since the context apparently doesn’t matter, per you and the others who took the time to clear things up for me, I’m good using “she” and “her” from now on.
Thanks for the clarification.
If this were a real person we were discussing who was closted trans, the correct thing to do would be to refer to her as a he unless it was a private conversation and you knew for a fact that everybody involved is allowed to know.
In the case of a fictional character, literally everybody in the real world is allowed to know, so you can call her “she” without outing her to her fictional family. The only thing that would be accomplished by calling her “he” or “him” would be to make actual trans people in the comments section feel like you aren’t respecting their feelings.
If we were other characters in the comic who Jocelyn had come out to, we would have to misgender and deadname her in public to avoid outing her. But since we aren’t, that isn’t necessary, so there’s no reason not to refer to her as Jocelyn and use the correct she/her pronouns, since that’s what she prefers.
(Sidenote: Anyone offended by someone correctly referring to Jocelyn as a woman can safely be ignored or told to STFU)
Men being victims of sexual assault IS a serious thing that should not be mocked. However that is not at all what happened to Jason.
It could have been. If he really hadn’t wanted it, there’s a pretty good case for it. If either the genders or the power dynamics had been reversed (and don’t forget Sal had already shown she was physically dominant), it would easily have been seen as such.
Had Jason not been into it, it would have been. That’s one of the tricky things with sexual assault. The same behavior can be either perfectly fine or a crime, depending on the other party’s response. If you’re going to jump on someone and start tearing their clothes off, you want to be pretty damn sure they’re okay with it.
Here’s how this is gonna go, Sal is going to help Jason keep his job so he can tutor Walky. I don’t know whose idea this is going to be, maybe Walky will request this of Sal. But I think that’s what is going to go down.
Only Sal, being Sal, is going to make it sound like a shake-down: “I’ll help you keep your job on the clear understanding that you tutor my idiot brother to the absolute best of your ability… and I reserve the right to change my mind if I think that you’re not taking this seriously because I don’t think you took it seriously with me.”
And then they hate-fuck. Because if they weren’t going to hate-fuck, this situation wouldn’t be happening right now.
So is Jason suspended?
Violence isn’t always the answer but if Jason turned around and punched Walky in the face I wouldn’t blame him at all
You no longer work there Jason! Nothing matters! There are no consequences! Punch Walky in the face! Embrace the nihilism!
We know it would still matter to Jason. At the very least it would bother him later and he’d feel he’d acted badly and wish he hadn’t.
For sure and I’m not saying there wouldn’t be consequences regarding the law but I wouldn’t blame him
This is why Walky is my most disliked character, not hated character like Blaine, Ross, Ryan, Mary etc but most disliked, even more than I dislike Ruth
Hilariously, Walky, despite being so disliked, is probably one of the most honest/realistic characters in the whole case. It’s called ‘Dumbing of Age’ for a reason, they’re a bunch of dumb kids just out of high school trying to tackle serious moral and emotional quandaries for which they are completely unprepared.
Walky tries to be a good person but has the same self-absorbed tunnel vision as anyone else in his position(favorite kid of a doting mother and laid-back father). So his foot spends a lot of time in his mouth.
I mean punching people in the face is a crime and you can get arrested and fined for it.
You people have no sense of fun and revolution…
So, Sal, you gonna fix this one? Kinda your fault here lol. Maybe Walky can convince her to save Jason’s job in order to save his own math grades haha
Why in the world would she? Jason’s treatment of her after the fact was awful.
What, you mean for refusing to boost her grades in exchange for sex? Or because he’s a snob and looks down on her punk ways? Or because he walked her back to her dorm that one time when she was too drunk to walk properly?
I think the idea that she liked him for any reason other than tit for tat after all the verbal abuse he’d given him.
her.
Implying she liked him before. They started out being generally pretty rude to each other.
In exchange for the sex they already had. Being offended that she thought it was an exchange instead of o crap I should have at least clarified first. Generally blaming Sal for his decision. Getting offended that she found a decent tutor.
Thinking about this a little more: This administration really sucks. They’ve got a suspected case of a TA seducing a student and they don’t actually do any investigation, they expect him to defend himself. Okay, that’s bad enough, but take it a step further: They don’t contact the affected student. They don’t question the affected student. They leave it up to the TA to go to the student and apply whatever pressure or bribes he can to get her to deny anything happened.
This is actually, while seemingly unfair to the accused at first glance, actually a recipe for perpetuating the problem. (Or would be, if it wasn’t Jason.)
We’ve already established that IU’s administration is useless. You only have to look at the way they rolled over and allowed Clint to dictate Ruth’s life and relationships in order to avoid making an effort. Hell, look at how Chloe basically ignored Ruth’s extensive problems just to have an easy life. Look how the administration handed off safety advice after Ross’s rampage on the individual TAs (some of whom might not be even 20 years old yet) rather than spend time, effort and money on more effective forms of education, outreach, counselling and security.
These people are not in any way ‘conscientious’. I bet that the only reason why Penny is being fired is due to potential embarrassment. IMO, if there was any way they could have swept the whole Ryan thing under the rug, they would have.
They don’t actually know the affected student. Honestly, they’re probably just going through the motions. If he showed up and said “No I didn’t”, given the flimsiness of the claim, they’d probably just say “Okay, good. Don’t do it in the future.” and let him go. But if they don’t at least go through the motions, and it turns out to be true later, it makes them look really bad, so there you go.
Jason is just giving up easily because he knows he actually is guilty.
I wonder if there is an element of guilt to it too: He knows he has had an affair with a student, which was wrong, and didn’t even give her what she wanted in return, which is wrong to a whole degree. He took the offered reward and didn’t even really bother to help Sal in any way.
Wait. You think this is MORE wrong than him actually giving her a better grade after they had sex?
It’s a sort of interesting moral question. Is accepting bribes and not following through more or less moral than accepting bribes and living up to your end of the bargain?
But Jason didn’t know it was a bribe. What she says before grabbing his shirt isn’t “Ah can get a higher grade lahk this” or anything, she says “Ah’ve been without a lot of things for a while,” and then “Yeah, y’know what? You’ll do.” I don’t think Jason’s at fault for not realizing she was proposing an exchange, instead thinking she was attracted to him. (She does also say, “ah’m only bein’ judged against my marks,” but even that’s not an explicit offer of exchange, AND by that point she’s half naked on top of his lap.)
Additionally, it’s common practice in my department to turn students’ papers in such a way that you can’t see the name before you issue the grade, to prevent unconscious bias. So he may not have even noticed he was grading that low.
Don’t you just use student numbers?
I think that would make things more complicated. We have 50-80 students per term. How would we hand their work back if their names weren’t on it somewhere?
I would say both yes and no. On one hand, he did screw up an agreement, which is bad, but on the other hand if he had graded Sal’s paper and given her a better grade, she wouldn’t have been able to earn the pride of actually learning the material. I would say in the long run, Sal is happier with having a tutor that fits more into her style (Danny) then just sleeping through grades.
They didn’t -have- an agreement. She assumed the agreement was implicit but did not discuss it until after the fact. I would also argue that no one is under a moral obligation to honor an agreement that is immoral to begin with, but that’s more complicated.
But they’re apparently telling him he can defend himself by mounting “a counterargument with the affected student”. Now, obviously he knows who that is, but if he was actually innocent what would he do? Who would he bring to mount the counterargument?
And if he was guilty and a real creep, not Jason, this would be where he’d go to the student and pressure her to clear his name. Leaving it up to the perpetrator to contact the victim, rather than questioning her themselves is horribly negligent.
But they haven’t likely been given a name. Yeah, it’s possible they may have figured out indirectly that this is about Sal, because he -did- ask another TA (Penny) to grade her papers for him, but we don’t actually know that. The administration might not know who the student is, and they probably don’t even think there actually -is- a student. I’d bet they’re probably thinking “this is a parting shot from an irate employee who is on her way out the door, so we’re just going to ask about it for the record.”
But then the “ask about it for the record” can’t be phrased as “mount a counterargument with the affected student”, if they don’t think there actually was such a student.
There’s no actual evidence that Jason and Sal banged, so he could just go present the case that “my asshole coworker who you were already firing and who never liked me told you a lie to try and get me fired too because misery loves company.”
I mean sure, he DID actually bang Sal, but they don’t need to know that… then again, Jason has been a pretty awful TA so I don’t really care if he gets fired or not apart from the fact that Walky needs someone to teach him now that he’s finally serious
Danny taught Sal! Danny might be the savior for… his… ex…girlfriend’s… new… boytoy.
Huh.
well knowing Willis that is exactly what will happen
While I know Sal isn’t a snitch I’m guessing she isn’t the type of person to actively lie to let someone get away with abusing their authority. And considering the fact that Jason has proven himself to be a shit tutor she might decide that whoever replaces him might be a better tutor for Walky anyways. So no she might not tattle but that does not mean she’s going to help Jason with his defense either.
Jason is nailing that “I’ve had nightmares exactly like this.” expression.
Wait, I’m a bit lost. Did Penny – who didn’t know her accusations were true – actually name Sal? Because if not, he can just say “I am unable to mount a counterargument with the affected student, because there is no such student. Your move.”
Oh, hey, other people are already discussing this. Obviously.
I’m predicting she said Walky.( not sal )
Jason, You Numpty!
Its a TRAP! There is no “affected student” , they are just trying to trick you into a confession.
EDIT! That BIATC- Bongo ! Damn that Red Headed skankgrrr
Penny didnt report on him boffing Sal ,
( She accused HIm of screwing Walky!)
Search your hearts Dumbers, Walky is going to Milk this for a D or he comes out as BI.
The way Jason’s expression changes between panels 4 and 5 makes me think that something has occurred to him. Something that he doesn’t LIKE, but may possibly get him out of this jam. Possibly.
I happen to NOT be on the “let’s all hate Jason” train, because while I never found him admirable, I thought his interactions with Sal were very interesting. I’m curious to see if this will cause them to have to talk to each other again, but I suspect a swerve may be coming.
Affected student?
So you can’t deny having sex with students without bringing out the student you didn’t have sex with? That’s some Heller bullshit right there.
Well, if Penny provided a name, especially if it was anyone other than Sal, then there’d be a chance to corroborate stories and deny the accusations. I mean, I’d certainly call a student wrongly accused of sleeping with a TA affected
Sometimes I think Walky just needs that ass beat…