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Pretty sure Veronica knows that, and was responding with her own counter reference, to another song by a British band, at the same time realizing that her reference would likely sail over the heads of us here in “Yankland”. (I only caught it from context, and then Googled the phrase, and found the song.)
We are the country that decided that Am I Ever Gonna See Your Face Again really needed the audience to sing “No way get fucked fuck off” during the chorus after all
I’m not sure what you’re reading into here. I kinda don’t think Alice has thought much of Jen before they bumped into each other. She hasn’t’t asked Jennifer anything except to leave her alone. Which Jennifer was doing pretty well at for months until a day ago.
I think Alice still has feelings for Jen sure. I just don’t think she was obsessing over Jen these last few months. Or holding any expectations for her. She has her own life she must be living. Their last interaction showed Alice seemed perfectly fine without Jennifer even if she missed her. I’m just wondering where Charles is picking up this insight?
When that pride ends up putting you into a head-on collision with a chestnut tree maybe it’s a reasonable thing to hate?
Alice is not the friend who decided Billie just wasn’t cool and popular anymore, she’s the ex who cut Billie out of her life because Jennifer wasn’t willing to become the sort of person she could trust to not keep putting her in-danger.
The thing is she worked through the Alcoholism and Suicidal tendencies while she was still Billie. Jennifer hasn’t backslid, but she hasn’t really made much fresh progress either
Jennifer is not a different person that Billie, she is still the same, she just pretend like isn’t. Just because she is not actively suicidal doesn’t mean she isn’t still self destructive. And as That said her improvement started way before she reinvented herself. Being Jennifer has nothing to do with her being better. In many ways it make her worse.
Also, um, maybe it’s just me, maybe I’m being overly sensitive, but…
I know we’re talking about a relationship that at one point involved a certain pact, I’m not trying to no one can talk about that aspect of Jennifer/Ruth; it would be really counterproductive, since all of this stuff is textually why Ruth broke up with her.
But woof. Having an explicit variant of “she was/is suicidal” in every single comment in this thread is making it harder for me to read through, much less respond to.
Again, if it’s just me, that’s okay. I’ll engage with other threads instead.
You’ve got kind of a simplistic understanding of Billie/Jennifer’s character arc that just doesn’t quite line up with the timeline of events.
1. Jennifer had a drinking problem before the DUI.
2. We have no reason to think Jennifer was drugged that night or at any other point, she had a flask she was chugging when she and Alice left prom.
3. Jennifer was sober AND in therapy before Ruth broke things off. I know Jennifer told Walky she “got therapy” to explain what happened during the timeskip, but she just… wasn’t being honest with him. (And why should she be? She wanted him to piss off.)
Was she in therapy? I know she was referred to therapy services, I just don’t remember if we got confirmation or clues she was going pre-timeskip.
But yes, she was sober and improving. The suicide pact pretty much ended when Ruth was hospitalized. This happened about 4 real life years before the timeskip happened. In universe, according to the fan wiki, this happened on October 3rd. Breaking up on Halloween means they were less than a month from it– but they it seems like they started to get into that territory in “Answers In Hennessy,” which was September 15th, so that was even less time in it.
Thanks for the link! Just before the timeskip (last day we see in-comic before, less than a month before it happened in real world time), so it makes sense that more isn’t said about it.
It’s so ridiculous because the person Jennifer prides herself on being seen with (Radiah) builds her identity around her future job like Dorothy another Jennifer identified nerd but because she’s also mean she thinks that’s an improvement to Joyce??
Well
There are types attracted to each other but other than the “step on me queen”
Type of men idk how many women in college that’d be as “built”
As Joe if they’re not on some kinda sports team
You can show remorse without giving up your pride. I’d argue a good leader which is what Jennifer identifies as should be capable of showing remorse and learning from mistakes. Jennifer’s pride is likely the reason she’s even sober. She just hasn’t been able to detach that from the more toxic aspects of it. But this comic isn’t a speedrun. We got lots more drama to milk from Jennifer being a slow learner.
I mean, Jennifer spent like half of the first semester in a drunken suicide pact with her new girlfriend after almost killing her previous (sorta)girlfriend in DUI. I really don’t think Alice was wrong for thinking Jennifer didn’t really feel remorse or learn from her mistakes at that point.
The only reason? I don’t think we have evidence that that the dui is the chicken to the suicidal egg, and not the other way round. Jennifer has other reasons to be suicidally drunk. Everything listed in the previous strip, plus shitty pseudo-parents (Walkertons). A severe lack of genuine care, love, and attention.
Yeah, the idea that the DUI was the cause of her alcoholism rather than the result doesn’t make a lot of sense. It likely increased her self-loathing and drove her to drink even more – and more outside of the party girl context, but we’ve seen enough reference to her behavior before that in high school to know it didn’t start there.
The only hint is that she warned people against it. It goes against every other bit of evidence. Not to mention how much it would mess with her character arc.
Yeah, Jennifer’s consistently characterized as having been the sort of person who was extremely vigilant about that sort of shit, and she was drinking out of her own flask.
There are ways to hint at her drink having being tampered, none of them were used.
Jennifer obviously didn’t learn from her mistakes, but that’s not quite the same as not feeling remorse. More accurate I think to say she couldn’t handle the remorse, so she drowned it in more alcohol and kept up the same pretense that papered over the rest of her self-loathing.
And that’s the kind of thing that she could say to Alice that might help.
I don’t think Alice wants anything from Jennifer. Both times they’ve interacted in college, it’s been Jen that initiated and both times Alice has tried to end the interaction as fast as possible. She’s been pretty clear about not wanting any relationship with her.
I’m not sure if Alice wants anything from Jennifer other than to be left alone, but I don’t think it’s remorse. The first time they met at college, she was polite but distant when Billie acted like she did in high school, but when Billie took the first step in the direction of remorse by saying she didn’t want the old Billie back, Alice unloaded on her. If she wants remorse, she’s not doing much to encourage it.
It occurs me that Jennifer knows nothing about Alices social circle. For all she knows Alices is openly into nerd culture that Jennifer just loudly denounced.
Jennifer is, as we’ve seen, still obsessed with the past. Even to this day, even if she’s not a head cheerleader, problem solver, ace reporter, she still thinks she’s in high school and refuses to grow up. And the times she does, it’s only from cajoling from others.
I really enjoy how a lot of what’s cranking Jennifers chain is her perceived loss of like. Social dominance/superiority, and how a lot of that feels like it comes back to the car crash even *before* crashing into social cache not really transferring to college.
Like. Listen to her. Alpha. Better then this. Aside from the fact that she sounds like the natural output of a kid raised in a house with a library thats probably mostly inspirational books for rich dudes, I wonder if it aint the desire to Always Be the girl who left the prom triumphant. Not the girl who got wheeled away in an ambulance.
….but also hoh boy is she a champion at foolin herself.
> Personally, I like being a lambda. I have no idea what it means in the whole alpha, beta, gamma, or sigma nonsense. I just like that it’s pointy, it has the word lamb in it, and I like sheep. And I have no intention of actually researching what a lambda person is supposed to mean.
Interestingly, in French, a “lambda person” means your average person. Joe Schmoe. Otto Normalverbraucher. Has been in use forever, way before this whole alpha sigma stigma zeugma pseudo-analysis of personality types started.
She is exactly the kind of child of rich parents to imitate the confidence and arrogance of her father without understanding the stability that is the center of it. She is the kind of kid to fake it just long enough to get a job she can’t do and then when fired she blames everyone but herself. In some ways, this year of college has been exactly what she needed, she’s just really really good at brushing off doubt and powering through.
She’s exactly the natural output of being raised by servants and with absent parents. Everything else is just clinging to something to replace that missing parental support.
Focusing on the “rich” part of her upbringing ignores the fundamental issue.
I would also bring up how she was raised connects with how she approaches relationships– people supporting her must want something from her. And being raised by her family’s staff means being raised by people who were paid to do it.
You really can’t explain Jennifer as a person without that one phone conversation where she calls her house and tries to ask someone (I forget who) where “Senor Billingsworth” (her father, addressed by his formal title) had the homeless people sent that one time.
Her father treats her like a project, fixes her mistakes, then bails, offering her no warmth or love. Billie reproduces that dynamic and has no idea how fucked up it is.
Yeah, so any of you men who think you’re an alpha wolf, just understand that you’re actually a pathetic little prison dog howling for scraps while the rest of us eat at the people table.
There is one single grain of truth to it, which is that when competition is REALLY scarce and prey is REALLY plentiful wolves will stick around into giant multigenerational packs instead of their more typical “nuclear family” style pack where they children head off to try to find their own territory, the daughters will have a dominance struggle between themselves for who’s going to be the “second in command” so to speak.
(That being said, that “low competition, plentiful prey” basically just means “when you reintroduce wolves to yellowstone”)
Got a source for that? I can track down L David Mech’s original popularization of the Alpha/Beta concept and his later disavowal of the idea as not accurate, but everything I’ve seen indicates this was something that changed as he and other researchers did more studies of natural wild populations, not as a result of demographic shifts within the scientists
However, this opens up a whole new horrifying philosophical thought: what if humans in industrialized societies act more like captive wolves than wild ones?
Wow, those eyes. She’s like a hawk, or an owl. Just staring you down with those eyes, until she gobbles you down like the mousy nerd you are. (That’s you, Jennifer.)
Maybe she’s like this one Joshi wrestler I’ve seen who looks like an idol who might blow away in a stiff breeze until she <i?flexes and suddenly you’re looking at She-Hulk.
Man, that drunken crash did something far worse to Jennifer than kill her; it trapped her there.
It just keeps seeming like so much keeps going back to that car crash & how she keeps trying to be the person that existed right after she left that prom & before it actually happened. I’m sure being around people like Raidah (who is confidently who she is which is someone who is extremely manipulative & without a strong moral code for others) didn’t help at all.
Sucks because she very obviously is a good person deep down, she wouldn’t be giving genuine to others the way she did before without being that kind of person. It just gets pushed down deeper & deeper with everything she tries to keep hidden like how she used to be into… *gasp* NERD CULTURE. She had her own hardships aswell in her younger age it definitely feels like, but everything that’s happening now? It just stems from that one crash she cannot let go.
GOD, its gonna be cathartic to watch her get rid of that hoodie & letting go of her high school self.
Yep, any perceived slight to her image results in her propelling herself further into social isolation. Jennifer you came to Joyce! don’t bat the life line away and admit you can’t swim on your own.
Wow, Jennifer would have accomplished her goal of looking stanle if she could just not make a scene explicitly ditching her friends because their not good enough (face palm).
she states that the she hates the feeling because “she’s better” that thought its tied in with her superiority inferiority complex where she hates that a “mousy nerd” is with someone hot while she’s alone. More to the point, with how Alice is looking at Jennifer that seems to be how her actions and words are being interpreted.
I haven’t seen the next comic, but my story-plotting mind has Jennifer saying “Hi, I missed you, I still miss you and I want to repair our relationship so much.”
Alt-text: No, Ethan and Asher is a case of the Buff-Ass Fuck Machine bagging another Buff-Ass Fuck Machine. Usually only happens in slash fiction, but it’s not unheard of.
We’ve never seen any indication of her scores but I somehow doubt either way Jennifer cares. if she thinks too hard about what she means it all cone crumbling down.
I should remember things, but, I never do so have to be reminded. That the “Alpha” theory is disproven and that Alpha particles have no penetration and can easily be dealt with.
Alright Jen, decision time. Will you use this moment as an opportunity to grow in a new direction? Or…
Yeah I also am gonna grab my popcorn. She may yet surprise me, but based on the lunch so far she still doesn’t seem open to making any choices different from her default.
I disagree here. She’s willing to make choices different from her default… and willing to retreat from them. One step forward, one step back. That makes her super fascinating to me – she’s always full of potential to do something different.
Called it! I said Jennifer was going to reject Joyce’s help, puff herself up, and retreat further from vulnerability. Now let’s see if it’s gonna get toppled by Alice entering the picture.
it’s sad because Joyce’s kindness is exactly what Jennifer needs right now but it’s impossible for her to help as long as Jennifer’s default is to tell herself she can do better friend wise.
the effectiveness of the “takes off glasses and looks at you seductively/sincerely” move probably is diminished somewhat considering you can already see her eyes. but i’d want to see it anyway.
Go ask Alice was also a fake diary about the danger of sex and drugs. Supposedly a diary. The main character commits suicide. Then there was a sequel by the same author. Probably too old for this audience and author.
As an emotionally intense person myself I can understand where Jennifer is coming from, but emotionally intense people need to learn to be intensely vulnerable for it to work out interpersonally in the end. I’ve known too many counter parts who have only failed trying to avoid doing so. Intensity in anything can get people hurt if you arent honest about your goals and wants. Self awareness is key.
Having just paid for Willis’ erotic Patreon and having seen several versions of Joyce’s ass, I can say with authority Joyce’s ass is buff in both universes, but moreso in the Dumbingverse. And I can also say in the Walkyverse Joyce is a fucking MACHINE.
Like I said, Jennifer, if you wait long enough, true happiness will come to you. And you haven’t been quite as happy since the early days of being with Asher.
No I don’t think whatever Jennifer said in Panel 2 would make a great book title, either
If we are to believe Jennifer that she’s the Alpha, Asher was the mousey little nerd. Given how close in time these events were, I’d say that label is transferable.
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Jennifer’s so good at this.
Just absolutely fantastic. Top shell stuff.
Alice is going to tell her exactly that. Any second now!
Go ask Alice….
I that a Jefferson Airplane reference?
Probably not an Elton John reference at this point of Alice’s arc.
Certainly not an America reference; Alice isn’t even mentioned in Tin Man IIRC.
It could be a Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers reference but only if you watch the music video for Don’t Come Around Here No More.
I would, but she’s ten feet tall right now.
What if you just call Alice?
Must have been something she ate.
Alice? Who the fuck is Alice?
(Is that musical reference to regional to play in Yankland?)
Jefferson Airplane – White Rabbit
https://youtu.be/TKZVUtvjBdM
About as American as they come.
A quick search tells me that Veronica here was referencing a different song about an Alice which is distinctly less American in it’s origins.
Pretty sure Veronica knows that, and was responding with her own counter reference, to another song by a British band, at the same time realizing that her reference would likely sail over the heads of us here in “Yankland”. (I only caught it from context, and then Googled the phrase, and found the song.)
An Australian band, but otherwise correct
Originally an Australian band, but the cover by British band Smokie made it famous. Pretty sure the famous crowd addition is all Oz though
We are the country that decided that Am I Ever Gonna See Your Face Again really needed the audience to sing “No way get fucked fuck off” during the chorus after all
Can’t speak for the Yanks, but certainly too regional for this Canadian.
I only remember Howard Carpendales german version, but I’m there with you!
Both references are good here.
You can get anything you want (cept Alice) …
I prefer the original to that version, to be honest.
Who the hell is Alice plays on my radio every Sunday morning at about 10 am.
Along with a lot of other polkas. Welcome back my friends and Red rubber ball are polkas if you want them to be.
Good idea. I’ve heard you can get anything you want at Alice’s restaurant.
I heard it’s not really a restaurant. And not run by anyone named Alice.
When the hunk dates are going backwards
And the prom queen’s gone in her head
Remember what the doctor said
Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore
Well good thing you don’t need anybody, because you sure ain’t getting me again — Alice
Jennifer lives rent free in Alice’s head.
She’s right to hate Jennifer if she wants but not right to hate her for not showing how much the event hurt her
Jennifer lost everything because of it but Alice insists she also needs to give up her pride.
I’m not sure what you’re reading into here. I kinda don’t think Alice has thought much of Jen before they bumped into each other. She hasn’t’t asked Jennifer anything except to leave her alone. Which Jennifer was doing pretty well at for months until a day ago.
I don’t know if I agree with that. Alice walked away from their first onpage interaction in tears confessing that she used to love Billie.
I kind of get the vibe that she still very much has feelings that she is trying to avoid.
I think Alice still has feelings for Jen sure. I just don’t think she was obsessing over Jen these last few months. Or holding any expectations for her. She has her own life she must be living. Their last interaction showed Alice seemed perfectly fine without Jennifer even if she missed her. I’m just wondering where Charles is picking up this insight?
When that pride ends up putting you into a head-on collision with a chestnut tree maybe it’s a reasonable thing to hate?
Alice is not the friend who decided Billie just wasn’t cool and popular anymore, she’s the ex who cut Billie out of her life because Jennifer wasn’t willing to become the sort of person she could trust to not keep putting her in-danger.
Yeah but the reason that Jennifer clings to it is that she’s lost everything else.
I don’t see how that is even remotely Alice problem.
Jennifer almost killed her.
Okay, and now she’s unbelievably hot and could make somebody’s browser history delete itself because it knows it’s outclassed.
A common problem.
It’s the leading cause of death in the Midwest, and for very clear reasons.
… Yes? Giving up her pride in order to show even a bit of remorse for almost killing her, is actually a very, very small price.
It’s such a small price that if Billie’s pride can’t take the miniscule hit, then that pride must not be worth very much in the first place.
It seems to be what got her out of suicidal alcholism.
As Jennifer, she can live.
As Billie, she wants to die.
And that is based on… What exactly? Where you get that assertion, I wouldn’t just take your word for it.
Because Billie was trying to kill herself with Ruth. The lesbian suicide pact was, in fact, actually a suicide pact. Alcoholism and self-annihilation.
And Jennifer is…not. She’s trying to rebuild her popularity, cast off old associations, and be someone who reacts violently to being called Billie.
The thing is she worked through the Alcoholism and Suicidal tendencies while she was still Billie. Jennifer hasn’t backslid, but she hasn’t really made much fresh progress either
Jennifer is not a different person that Billie, she is still the same, she just pretend like isn’t. Just because she is not actively suicidal doesn’t mean she isn’t still self destructive. And as That said her improvement started way before she reinvented herself. Being Jennifer has nothing to do with her being better. In many ways it make her worse.
Also, um, maybe it’s just me, maybe I’m being overly sensitive, but…
I know we’re talking about a relationship that at one point involved a certain pact, I’m not trying to no one can talk about that aspect of Jennifer/Ruth; it would be really counterproductive, since all of this stuff is textually why Ruth broke up with her.
But woof. Having an explicit variant of “she was/is suicidal” in every single comment in this thread is making it harder for me to read through, much less respond to.
Again, if it’s just me, that’s okay. I’ll engage with other threads instead.
You’ve got kind of a simplistic understanding of Billie/Jennifer’s character arc that just doesn’t quite line up with the timeline of events.
1. Jennifer had a drinking problem before the DUI.
2. We have no reason to think Jennifer was drugged that night or at any other point, she had a flask she was chugging when she and Alice left prom.
3. Jennifer was sober AND in therapy before Ruth broke things off. I know Jennifer told Walky she “got therapy” to explain what happened during the timeskip, but she just… wasn’t being honest with him. (And why should she be? She wanted him to piss off.)
Was she in therapy? I know she was referred to therapy services, I just don’t remember if we got confirmation or clues she was going pre-timeskip.
But yes, she was sober and improving. The suicide pact pretty much ended when Ruth was hospitalized. This happened about 4 real life years before the timeskip happened. In universe, according to the fan wiki, this happened on October 3rd. Breaking up on Halloween means they were less than a month from it– but they it seems like they started to get into that territory in “Answers In Hennessy,” which was September 15th, so that was even less time in it.
I mean I guess it’s possible she only went once? But she did go.
Thanks for the link! Just before the timeskip (last day we see in-comic before, less than a month before it happened in real world time), so it makes sense that more isn’t said about it.
Yeah.
The planned worked the first day? Joyce is good at this.
When Jennifer reflects on this, one inevitable disaster later, that will be the most galling part.
Joyce does, in fact, pull.
She’s the queen of pulling.
That’s what Joe said.
Did they not pick a place they knew Alice ate at? Vs a specific restaurant tho I suppose it’s the school cafeteria hall?
I don’t think any of them know Alice well enough to do that?
Specifically, they’re eating lunch in the Forest Quad cafeteria, where Alice lives.
jennifer did an oopsie
And BOOM goes the dynamite!
ah jeez gooners
The tension has appeared
Grabbing myself a bucket of popcorn. This ought to be good.
She kinda has a point about the mousey nerds and the fuck machines
Maybe she should look into that.
Ahhh, who am I kidding. She built her entire identity on being a sexy cheerleader. It’s too late to change course now.
It’s so ridiculous because the person Jennifer prides herself on being seen with (Radiah) builds her identity around her future job like Dorothy another Jennifer identified nerd but because she’s also mean she thinks that’s an improvement to Joyce??
that’s why I spec’d my build into mousey nerd!
unfortunately I went too hard down the mousey skill tree and ended up picking up the hermit subclass
Well
There are types attracted to each other but other than the “step on me queen”
Type of men idk how many women in college that’d be as “built”
As Joe if they’re not on some kinda sports team
be a little mousey nerd. you’re almost there
Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
She’s already littler and mousier than Sarah.
You were saying something Jennifer?
I would think Ethan is the mousey nerd, yeah. Or depressed need more like
Ethan and Asher have Goku and Vegeta energy.
I will thank you to put some respect on my Saiyan boys. They worked hard for that energy. Those guys were divorced before they were even born.
Ethan is a buff-ass mousey nerd
he was buff, now he’s
tubercular“consumptive”“emaciated”, which somehow only makes him hotter to a certain demographic.What’s kind of disturbing is Alice wants Jennifer more than anything for Jennifer to show REMORSE.
But what Jennifer doesn’t want to be is defined as a drunk driver.
yeah. she has to be the Kickass Hero Head Cheerleader. But this is the person who was There, and directly affected by, the crash.
Alice may not comprehend pride is the only thing keeping Jennifer from her suicide pact’s conclusion.
You can show remorse without giving up your pride. I’d argue a good leader which is what Jennifer identifies as should be capable of showing remorse and learning from mistakes. Jennifer’s pride is likely the reason she’s even sober. She just hasn’t been able to detach that from the more toxic aspects of it. But this comic isn’t a speedrun. We got lots more drama to milk from Jennifer being a slow learner.
I mean, Jennifer spent like half of the first semester in a drunken suicide pact with her new girlfriend after almost killing her previous (sorta)girlfriend in DUI. I really don’t think Alice was wrong for thinking Jennifer didn’t really feel remorse or learn from her mistakes at that point.
I mean the only reason she was a suicidal drunk was because of the DUI.
Also, she confessed to it to the kids at her sorority when she was worshiped by them.
Billie’s not part of a sorority, though.
Her residential hall.
Weird typo
The only reason? I don’t think we have evidence that that the dui is the chicken to the suicidal egg, and not the other way round. Jennifer has other reasons to be suicidally drunk. Everything listed in the previous strip, plus shitty pseudo-parents (Walkertons). A severe lack of genuine care, love, and attention.
Yeah, the idea that the DUI was the cause of her alcoholism rather than the result doesn’t make a lot of sense. It likely increased her self-loathing and drove her to drink even more – and more outside of the party girl context, but we’ve seen enough reference to her behavior before that in high school to know it didn’t start there.
Maybe but we also have hints she could have been drugged at the party.
Do we really? It’s a theory some people have, but that doesn’t mean it’s well supported by the comic
The only hint is that she warned people against it. It goes against every other bit of evidence. Not to mention how much it would mess with her character arc.
Yeah, Jennifer’s consistently characterized as having been the sort of person who was extremely vigilant about that sort of shit, and she was drinking out of her own flask.
There are ways to hint at her drink having being tampered, none of them were used.
The DUI definitely burned a lot of bridges for her. It cost her her best friend and closed doors for her at college, it definitely made things worse.
But she clearly already had a drinking problem or she would’t have put her car into a tree in the first place
+1
Jennifer obviously didn’t learn from her mistakes, but that’s not quite the same as not feeling remorse. More accurate I think to say she couldn’t handle the remorse, so she drowned it in more alcohol and kept up the same pretense that papered over the rest of her self-loathing.
And that’s the kind of thing that she could say to Alice that might help.
I don’t think Alice wants anything from Jennifer. Both times they’ve interacted in college, it’s been Jen that initiated and both times Alice has tried to end the interaction as fast as possible. She’s been pretty clear about not wanting any relationship with her.
I’m not sure if Alice wants anything from Jennifer other than to be left alone, but I don’t think it’s remorse. The first time they met at college, she was polite but distant when Billie acted like she did in high school, but when Billie took the first step in the direction of remorse by saying she didn’t want the old Billie back, Alice unloaded on her. If she wants remorse, she’s not doing much to encourage it.
Finish, Jennifer. We need to know why do you bother about Alice, even you not needing nobody.
It occurs me that Jennifer knows nothing about Alices social circle. For all she knows Alices is openly into nerd culture that Jennifer just loudly denounced.
Jennifer is, as we’ve seen, still obsessed with the past. Even to this day, even if she’s not a head cheerleader, problem solver, ace reporter, she still thinks she’s in high school and refuses to grow up. And the times she does, it’s only from cajoling from others.
*pulls out popcorn* Continue.
You are?
Well, don’t let me stop you.
Having witnessed the wreckage left after Joyce’s first time in the other universe, I’m assuming that Joe is the mousey nerd here.
I really enjoy how a lot of what’s cranking Jennifers chain is her perceived loss of like. Social dominance/superiority, and how a lot of that feels like it comes back to the car crash even *before* crashing into social cache not really transferring to college.
Like. Listen to her. Alpha. Better then this. Aside from the fact that she sounds like the natural output of a kid raised in a house with a library thats probably mostly inspirational books for rich dudes, I wonder if it aint the desire to Always Be the girl who left the prom triumphant. Not the girl who got wheeled away in an ambulance.
….but also hoh boy is she a champion at foolin herself.
> Personally, I like being a lambda. I have no idea what it means in the whole alpha, beta, gamma, or sigma nonsense. I just like that it’s pointy, it has the word lamb in it, and I like sheep. And I have no intention of actually researching what a lambda person is supposed to mean.
The more someone insists they’re an alpha or a sigma the more likely it is that they’re a ligma.
Who the fuck is Steve Jobs?
A lambda male is that guy from Half Life
Interestingly, in French, a “lambda person” means your average person. Joe Schmoe. Otto Normalverbraucher. Has been in use forever, way before this whole alpha sigma stigma zeugma pseudo-analysis of personality types started.
She is exactly the kind of child of rich parents to imitate the confidence and arrogance of her father without understanding the stability that is the center of it. She is the kind of kid to fake it just long enough to get a job she can’t do and then when fired she blames everyone but herself. In some ways, this year of college has been exactly what she needed, she’s just really really good at brushing off doubt and powering through.
She’s exactly the natural output of being raised by servants and with absent parents. Everything else is just clinging to something to replace that missing parental support.
Focusing on the “rich” part of her upbringing ignores the fundamental issue.
I would also bring up how she was raised connects with how she approaches relationships– people supporting her must want something from her. And being raised by her family’s staff means being raised by people who were paid to do it.
You really can’t explain Jennifer as a person without that one phone conversation where she calls her house and tries to ask someone (I forget who) where “Senor Billingsworth” (her father, addressed by his formal title) had the homeless people sent that one time.
Her father treats her like a project, fixes her mistakes, then bails, offering her no warmth or love. Billie reproduces that dynamic and has no idea how fucked up it is.
Jennifer describes him as emotionally constipated and says the only way he knows how to show her he loves her is to throw money at her,
Well this is gonna be interesting.
/gets the popcorn ready
Alice is way too fuckin’ hot.
THANK you i’m not the only one
There’s walking face-first into a brick wall, and then there’s being Billie.
Don’t know why but I really thought she could pull off one lunch looking sane.
Go ahead, Jennifer. Finish your sentence and prove Alice right.
Well, at the very least she saw her with them! In a bad light, but nonetheless!
Imagine if Alice had a new partner that
Was mostly like Jen without the hang ups lol
Or dating a male vr of Ruth 8D
Just a note the whole ‘alpha wolf’ concept has actually been debunked. It came from studies on captive wolves, not wild ones.
In reality, wolf packs operate like families — the ‘leaders’ are usually just the parents, not dominant fighters.
The scientist who popularized the alpha theory even retracted it later on!
Yeah, so any of you men who think you’re an alpha wolf, just understand that you’re actually a pathetic little prison dog howling for scraps while the rest of us eat at the people table.
There is one single grain of truth to it, which is that when competition is REALLY scarce and prey is REALLY plentiful wolves will stick around into giant multigenerational packs instead of their more typical “nuclear family” style pack where they children head off to try to find their own territory, the daughters will have a dominance struggle between themselves for who’s going to be the “second in command” so to speak.
(That being said, that “low competition, plentiful prey” basically just means “when you reintroduce wolves to yellowstone”)
That’s interesting I didn’t actually know that thanks for the clarification.
“Alphas are essentially bragging about how much of an asshole they’d be if we put them in a cage” is how I think I’ve heard it described.
*how self-important they would act if…
Hbomberguy or Shaun, I think.
To be fair, when you consider the way that she presents herself as an alpha… Well, she basically is describing a mom friend?
It lasted until female scientists came involved. Male scientists just continued to see strong powerful males.
Got a source for that? I can track down L David Mech’s original popularization of the Alpha/Beta concept and his later disavowal of the idea as not accurate, but everything I’ve seen indicates this was something that changed as he and other researchers did more studies of natural wild populations, not as a result of demographic shifts within the scientists
However, this opens up a whole new horrifying philosophical thought: what if humans in industrialized societies act more like captive wolves than wild ones?
Wow, those eyes. She’s like a hawk, or an owl. Just staring you down with those eyes, until she gobbles you down like the mousy nerd you are. (That’s you, Jennifer.)
Well, when ya put it that way
Alice could be buffer tho. If we’re going there with the comparison. She needs to hold up her end and become a true fuck machine.
Oh my gods, buff Alice might actually kill me.
Yeah, but what a way to go!
“Death by snu-snu! Death by snu-snu!”
(I leave it to others to find the link.)
Is it so much to ask for a muscular, powerful woman to literally pop my head like a grape with one mighty flex?
I’ve seen that clip from The Boys.
May I recommend to you Bev from the Nortverse comic?
Alice isn’t exactly buff, but Billifer could probably be talked into making an exception.
Maybe she’s like this one Joshi wrestler I’ve seen who looks like an idol who might blow away in a stiff breeze until she <i?flexes and suddenly you’re looking at She-Hulk.
Hidden buffness comes in more shapes than Amber.
Tbf “buff fuck machine”
Might be her type for
A guy but not women, even tho Ruth was fairly tough o think she’s still shorter
than Joe
Maybe Alice will ignore Jennifer after this look and immediately ask to sit with Joyce and Joe.
Man, that drunken crash did something far worse to Jennifer than kill her; it trapped her there.
It just keeps seeming like so much keeps going back to that car crash & how she keeps trying to be the person that existed right after she left that prom & before it actually happened. I’m sure being around people like Raidah (who is confidently who she is which is someone who is extremely manipulative & without a strong moral code for others) didn’t help at all.
Sucks because she very obviously is a good person deep down, she wouldn’t be giving genuine to others the way she did before without being that kind of person. It just gets pushed down deeper & deeper with everything she tries to keep hidden like how she used to be into… *gasp* NERD CULTURE. She had her own hardships aswell in her younger age it definitely feels like, but everything that’s happening now? It just stems from that one crash she cannot let go.
GOD, its gonna be cathartic to watch her get rid of that hoodie & letting go of her high school self.
Batman voice: It’s not who I am underneath, but what I dooooooo that defines me
“You exist here.”
I remember that episode of DS9!
DS9 had a great opener in a lot of ways.
Yep, any perceived slight to her image results in her propelling herself further into social isolation. Jennifer you came to Joyce! don’t bat the life line away and admit you can’t swim on your own.
“You are trapped in that bright moment where you learned your doom” — Samuel R. Delany, City of a Thousand Suns
What’s Willis’ thought process that decides whether to use frickin’ or fucking in any given panel?
I think that depends on the character. Early Joyce would be fricking or fudging. Second semester Joyce would be fucking.
She would, and probably will.
I am pretty enthralled. It does feel like Alice being here isn’t some happy accident, either, like she has… purpose? on her face.
So, I wanna know what Alice has to say.
Tomorrow’s strip is just Alice and Billie making out with the force of a thousand suns.
Called it.
1. Appropriate gravatar is appropriate.
2. We want to see that other patreon, yes, we does, preciousss.
*whoops appreciatively and bangs my stick on the ice*
Billifer, dear… If you have to tell people you’re “an Alpha,” you are not, in fact, an Alpha.
She is definitely an alpha in the sense of a pre-release build that’s only in its concept stages and needs major work and refining….
Billifer: “I’m in charge!”
Alice: “Do you feel in charge?”
Joe: “I’m trying very hard not to just be a fuck machine-”
Jennifer: “STOP IT.”
Joyce: “I’m trying very hard not to just be a hussy.”
Jennifer: “STOP THAT, TOO.”
Nailed it, 10/10, no notes. Went swimmingly
Wow, Jennifer would have accomplished her goal of looking stanle if she could just not make a scene explicitly ditching her friends because their not good enough (face palm).
stable*
That is not her reason for ditching JoJo. She explicitly stated here she feels like a third wheel, and hates that feeling.
she states that the she hates the feeling because “she’s better” that thought its tied in with her superiority inferiority complex where she hates that a “mousy nerd” is with someone hot while she’s alone. More to the point, with how Alice is looking at Jennifer that seems to be how her actions and words are being interpreted.
What she says explicitly is that she doesn’t want to be BE SEEN as a third wheel, so I’d argue definitely in the image and not feeling territory.
I haven’t seen the next comic, but my story-plotting mind has Jennifer saying “Hi, I missed you, I still miss you and I want to repair our relationship so much.”
Sorry, but this is not Smarting of Age.
That’s the sequel, when they’re all living in the same retirement community.
“OoOoh, my hips are smarting something awful today!”
Alt-text: No, Ethan and Asher is a case of the Buff-Ass Fuck Machine bagging another Buff-Ass Fuck Machine. Usually only happens in slash fiction, but it’s not unheard of.
But Ethan is still a nerd and Asher is a bad boy, so it fits
Assuming Jennifer can get a word In, I assume it will be less put together then that.
=/
…what game is she at the top of? Is this that manifesting trend?
Oh! Right! College students! She probably has good grades right now
We’ve never seen any indication of her scores but I somehow doubt either way Jennifer cares. if she thinks too hard about what she means it all cone crumbling down.
Alice: “Sit!”
“Yes, Mommy! Arf!”
You get it.
More “alpha” talk from Jennifer. Really holding onto that title, girl!!!
I don’t need a Billion dolla-
Jennifer is so carefree and happy with herself she can’t do anything without first considering how she’s seen.
Go ask Alice
when she’s ten feet tall
I should remember things, but, I never do so have to be reminded. That the “Alpha” theory is disproven and that Alpha particles have no penetration and can easily be dealt with.
Yep, alpha particles are very damaging to you, but only if you let them get too close. Under your skin is definitely very bad for you.
What’s that white splash behind Alice in panel 4?
Possibilities:
1. Joe and Joyce just made a bodily fluids mess.
2. The splash is a fountain right outside that window. (assuming it’s a window)
fire
Aha! Thanks!
Alice bursts into the room like Green Goblin in Spider-Man (2002):
FINISH IT!
Alice is so pretty. Jennifer fumbled. Augh, her wavy hair and dark lipstick has bewitched me…!
super agreed!!!
Alright Jen, decision time. Will you use this moment as an opportunity to grow in a new direction? Or…
Yeah I also am gonna grab my popcorn. She may yet surprise me, but based on the lunch so far she still doesn’t seem open to making any choices different from her default.
I disagree here. She’s willing to make choices different from her default… and willing to retreat from them. One step forward, one step back. That makes her super fascinating to me – she’s always full of potential to do something different.
Called it! I said Jennifer was going to reject Joyce’s help, puff herself up, and retreat further from vulnerability. Now let’s see if it’s gonna get toppled by Alice entering the picture.
it’s sad because Joyce’s kindness is exactly what Jennifer needs right now but it’s impossible for her to help as long as Jennifer’s default is to tell herself she can do better friend wise.
Maybe if Jennifer gets on her knees and starts begging her like John Belushi in “The Blues Brother”…
the effectiveness of the “takes off glasses and looks at you seductively/sincerely” move probably is diminished somewhat considering you can already see her eyes. but i’d want to see it anyway.
goddammit, jennifer
typical queer woman problems: you’re in the middle of a rant and then *she* shows up
Go ask Alice was also a fake diary about the danger of sex and drugs. Supposedly a diary. The main character commits suicide. Then there was a sequel by the same author. Probably too old for this audience and author.
https://app.thestorygraph.com/books/332d71ef-cd36-4636-babc-7e0c532958ac
I recall it. Back when I was an Englishing teachering person, several students were reading that. Led to some frank class discussions, as I recall.
Jennifer thinks they’re a top, but she’s about to become a bottom.
Billie is still her own worst enemy. That cute little nerd’s plan was just about to pay off, but your ego couldn’t handle it.
Her ego I mean, goddammit.
No please Jennifer, finish that thought. It’ll be funny.
Trying to remember if she owns any apparel that isn’t in her old high school colors.
*sighs* If I was just a little less lazy…
2011, she wore a burgundy cami with jeans
She absolutely does, but she’s actively trying to recapture her high school experience this chapter so she gets the blue and yellow
When she was with Asher, she wore more red and black.
As an emotionally intense person myself I can understand where Jennifer is coming from, but emotionally intense people need to learn to be intensely vulnerable for it to work out interpersonally in the end. I’ve known too many counter parts who have only failed trying to avoid doing so. Intensity in anything can get people hurt if you arent honest about your goals and wants. Self awareness is key.
The only successful thing Jennifer can do here is 180 run to Joyce and ask for help.
Man, just when I start to feel bad for Jennifer…. She reminds me why I won’t.
Having just paid for Willis’ erotic Patreon and having seen several versions of Joyce’s ass, I can say with authority Joyce’s ass is buff in both universes, but moreso in the Dumbingverse. And I can also say in the Walkyverse Joyce is a fucking MACHINE.
I know we’re all about how hot Alice is, and she is, but she’s got a PS1 Tomb Raider bust in panel 4 and next to Jennifer it’s missing.
Some girls have smaller, pointier boobs! It’s normal, and they’re beautiful!
my comment on top must have been reported by accident too many times, something real easy to do on mobile :0
here’s the link it had to Sal’s “Rebranding” remark
and you can still see the original comment here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20250330061406/https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/03-me-and-who-you-say-i-was-yesterday/mousey/
Is it mean that i’m rooting for Jennifer to fall on her face with all this “alpha-bongo headcheerleader i need to be the best” pretentious crap?
I hope Alice keeps calling her out.
You don’t win back friends by showcasing how cool and sociable you are.
Alice _is_ very pretty.
Like I said, Jennifer, if you wait long enough, true happiness will come to you. And you haven’t been quite as happy since the early days of being with Asher.
No I don’t think whatever Jennifer said in Panel 2 would make a great book title, either
If we are to believe Jennifer that she’s the Alpha, Asher was the mousey little nerd. Given how close in time these events were, I’d say that label is transferable.