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I mean, even if she has , alice has no obligation to give billie another chance, i can imagine more drama where they /have/ to be together bc of school stuff (tho i imagine there not being any classest together or if thy wouldn’t bhave brought it up)
If Joyce was okay with *knowing* that homogenous food pastes are made of multiple ingredients, I feel like she’d enjoy having a blender. Unfortunately, I think she insisted once that there are no ingredients in ketchup, and it’s just formed from the ether.
Maybe she has. In the past, she probably never would have hung out with people like Joyce. Now she will grace them with her presence so long as they are constantly reminded how much better she is than them.
He was her backup safety net friend, there in case she had a falling out with the cool popular kids. She had no qualms about shoving him into lockers as long as she didn’t need him.
Then at the beginning of the comic, she didn’t have the cool kids to hang out with anymore, so she fell back to good old reliable goofball Walky.
Then she got an in with a new clique of “cool kids” (Raidah and company), so she was free to go back to neglecting Walky again.
Jennifer has come up to her twice now, despite her telling her to leave her alone. She wants to say something mean to push her away and get her to leave her alone.
All that said, yes it still is a pretty shitty thing to tell someone
Alice was walking by in the building where she lives when Jennifer’s storm-off put them face-to-face. And let us not forget that Jennifer and Joyce EXPLICITLY chose to have lunch here to try to ‘accidentally’ run into Alice. So no.
They’re trying to eat lunch in Alice’s vicinity. As far as I am aware, the plan doesn’t involve actually calling out to Alice or approaching her. This face to face was just an accident.
Better fairness, I think, is the fact that Jennifer tried to talk to her earlier and now that Jennifer was storming out she overheard her talk herself up as “at the top of my game, I don’t need this.” I imagine Alice heard that, and between this and earlier today — when she *also* was bragging about herself while getting in Alice’s way — she is very much not in the mood for Jennifer’s bullshit.
From her perspective, her toxic ex barreled over a boundary to brag about herself twice in one day after Alice bluntly told her “don’t fucking talk to me.” She has enough of a history with Jennifer to sense how she does things.
It is a shitty thing, we sometimes say shitty things to the people who hurt us. Sometimes it is justified sometimes it is not. In this moment, it is complicated, but still not on Alice to be nice here.
How much did Alice even hear. Cause I think the context really matters for this. This was not a drama scenario. But y’know dumping on Jen is fun probably.
She’s mad at someone who has done / is doing shitty stuff to her, but maybe more to the point, someone who she trusted and loves but betrayed her trust and love
I think it’s easier to say something is bad to say when we’re detached readers of a webcomic
It’s a moral-consequentialist-sub-optimal, but pretty understandable, and relatable impulse I think
I’m not even sure she did. I don’t think Willis would have introduced roofies into the scene with her DUI if not for the fact that it’s a Chekov’s gun.
Why? Literally what would there be for that? It adds nothing to the story, in fact it takes sways from it by taking the responsibility for her biggest mistake off Jennifer. We have no actual reason to believe it was anything but her drunk driving.
You’ve got solid reasoning for why you think it’d be a dramatic thing to happen, but there are many dramatic things that would make for a compelling story that nonetheless are unlikely to happen in this story.
What? You want the DUI not to as much her fault? She had still been drinking regardless of hypothetical roofies, and she was the alpha cheerleader who made sure others don’t get roofied. It wouldn’t be in character at all.
Billie was a reckless alcoholic, and eventually the inevitable happened. It would be bad writing to try and reduce her culpability now.
If Jennifer was a functional alcoholic and the alcohol was combined with a roofie… Suddenly she gets way drunker than she thought she would be while on the road. Alcohol and roofie combined fuck you up way more together than you’d expect from how each thing fucks You up individually. I hate to say it but IIRC a lot of people who get into crashes because they drink and drive are people who drink and drive regularly. You think you’re still in control until you aren’t. (Don’t drink and drive)
It’s like, hey, if she had a non alcoholic beverage and got roofie she’d get sleepy at the wheel but still have time to park. (I’d say to ask me how I’d know but I feel like the answer is pretty obvious.)
But Jennifer was still driving while knowingly under the influence. Alice would still be very justified in being mad at Jennifer for drinking, driving, and crashing.
What does making her less culpable for the accident add to the story? Just… raw drama for the sake of it?
I think if that was the intent we’d have seen Billie drink from something other than her own flask.
Seems far more likely to me it’s there to both reinforce Billie’s image as someone who is looking out for the other girls, and an implication about something Chester might have done in the past.
How does this theory square the roofie having come from a spiked communal punchbowl with Billie being either the only one affected or failing to connect the dots between her falling asleep at the wheel and a bunch of other students showing signs of getting drugged.
Like, if the intent was for Billie to have gotten drugged by someone, there are a lot of ways to hint at that, and we saw literally none of them.
Do you think she brought a separate bottle of alcohol to spike the punch, drained her flask, then came back later and refilled her flask with the punch she spiked?
Why not just top off her flask with the unpunched alcohol before spiking the punch? Why risk getting caught filling your flask from the punchbowl? There’s so much time and spillage involved in filling a flask with a ladle, and submerging the flask in the punch bowl is hardly any more discreet.
The point isn’t that her drinking from her own flask makes it impossible for her to have been roofied, it’s that her drinking from her own flask shows us that she was drinking. Following that scene of her drinking with the car crash that’s always been described as a DUI establishes narrative causality.
Her also being roofied undermines her whole arc and her agency. It gives her an excuse while not changing her behavior. She still drank and drove, but now she’d have a plausible excuse to say “It wasn’t my fault. I could have handled the booze and driven safely.”
This is not going to happen.
billie was drinking out of her own flask. she decided to drink alcohol and then drive. having her be roofied just absolves her from the decision that she made, which was to drink and drive. like, they test you when they give you a dui, they dont just decide that you were drunk…
Yup yup. We had a drunk driver crash into our garage door last year. Thankfully he was too drunk to hide his car very well and it was obvious. But because we didn’t have video that showed *him* driving the car and because he wasn’t tested at the time of driving, police weren’t going to arrest him. I was surprised at how lax it all was.
Thankfully, the guy was decent enough to admit to it immediately and paid my inlaws for the damages insurance didn’t cover.
Unfortunately, he is definitely not the only guy on the block to drive drunk. A different neighbor ping-ponged off 5 parked cars going down the street once, even lost his license for a while? Still hasn’t stopped. But unless you’re going to stay up until 3 am monitoring cars, what can you do. :/
Billie has shown negative character growth during the bulk of the comic. and in the few interactions they’ve had, Billie has stepped in it every which way, without ever admitting she was at fault.
So while it IS mean to say, it’s also the god damned truth and she needs some truth to the face right now.
I couldn’t describe Bennifer’s character development in this strip as anything more or less than two steps forward, two steps back. She briefly changes when forced, or when she’s chasing something/fears abandonment, but as soon as that change gets even slightly inconvenient or hard, she FULLY pendulums back to the exact person she was in high school in, like, a matter of seconds.
“Negative growth” is a very fair thing to accuse her of. She was in a much healthier, stabler place at the start of this comic, and she constantly dips back to a version of herself that predates even that.
Funny enough, even that itself is her “changing”; I definitely wouldn’t say the Bennifer from the beginning of the comic is the one that’s here, but the Pendulum of her going from a person that’s actively doing better & bettering herself to this version of her that’s essentially Pre-Car Crash she keeps trying to keep up because she believes she peaked in High School has been so much more drastic & noticeable.
Its like Ado said; she’s getting worse but I’m inclined to believe she’s gonna hit a point soon with these behavior swings & realization that will involve her actually moving on from the High School stuff. Just waiting to see what she does with that Hoodie, its gonna be symbolic in all this.
Relapses are common. Very few alcoholics get clean without falling of the wagon a few times. She’s apparently done so once already – we know she stopped before the timeskip and she said recent she hadn’t had a drink for two months, which doesn’t quite add up.
It’s still an incredibly important step. She’s got other issues, but even acknowledging she needs to stop and making a serious attempt is huge.
She wasn’t in a healthier place, she was just better able to hide her trauma breakdowns because we weren’t enmeshed in her life until she started destructing with Ruth. Also the booze helped her mask.
Losing Ruth put her into a *visible* spiral, but she was circling the drain well before then.
She put up her “I’m a cheerleader” persona, putting her nickname away like Clark Kent putting his suit back on, then finds a “bad boy” to bang the gay away, and THAT falls apart because Asher *isn’t* self destructive and won’t play her game.
Then, when her “friend” circle implodes because she fucked up… Again, she tries to hook back into Walky’s life… Again. Like she constantly did in high school.
But this time, Walky’s actually grown as a person and isn’t just a wad of chewed gum ready to be picked off the bottom of a table anymore.
(I know the Raidah Club for Infinite Losers weren’t her friends, but Billie thought they were.)
Part of this was for Ado, but I can’t really find a good place to break up the idea, and I think it needs to be one blurb to be better understood on just how long Billie has dug this self destructive hole.
I have to disagree thoroughly. Billie was in a terrible state at the start of this comic. She was an alcoholic coming off having learned nothing from the drunk driving incident. She had a fake ID, was trying to bum drinks off Tony, and that’s all before being physically and mentally tormented by Ruth before they even started dating. People may not like Jennifer now because she tried (and failed mind you) to hard reset her social priorities, but she’s lightyears ahead of where she was. Based on her sobriety and guilt ridden trauma flashbacks while she grumbles alone in bed she may even be starting to learn remorse.
What people want is a very brief, curated form of Jennifer that was nice to Walky, and dating Ruth, and hung with the main group more often. But we’re not getting all of that back.
Outside of currently being on the wagon, I just see her making the same mistakes, only sober this time. With the consequences of those same choices happening faster and without the numbing effect of the booze to keep her from feeling anything.
Until Billie is able to pull her head out of the sand, or have it forcible removed with the help of a crane, Joyce doesn’t really have anything to prove her point outside of the sobriety.
Which… Admittedly, isn’t “nothing”… But it’s really not something you dramatically stand up in the middle of a not-Chipotle to hold up as a beacon of personal growth to wow your acquaintance’s jilted lesbian high school bestie.
I mean, when your jilted lesbian high school bestie’s biggest complaint was that “you got blitzed and wrecked a car and you thought that was fine”, getting sober is a pretty damned big step.
I disagree with calling her Billifer but it’s at least understandable as a mash between the two things she has called herself. Calling her Bennifer feels a lot more like deliberate masculinizing her name. If that’s not intended I understand. Does creeps me out without knowing if so. I get the character has been a terrible person. If you are going to call her names, call her names. But like uh… yeah can we at least not go that direction if that is the direction intended?
Something like a hospitalization like that wouldn’t be published in a newspaper, and it’s a big school– it might have been the talk of the hall for a while, and maybe reached some of the other floors and friends of some characters, but the vast majority of students likely never heard about.
Also – holy crap, we’re only four days from having a Buffer a full year ahead.
Imagine if Willis got so far ahead that we end up having reverse sliding timescale because Willis has to write for over a year in his own past.
After Trump and Musk died in that plane crash it was pretty sweet, up to that it was a hellscape. J. D. Vance survived but was too banged up to serve, and by the time they went down the line of succession they all bailed until we got to Schumer. It’s only been a few weeks but the economy is starting to turn around.
Yes, she gets to be sad? Because she loved her even though she hurts her so much? Why is it so hard to be emphatic for this traumatized young women who clearly has contradicting fellings towards the person who give her that trauma?
i think it’s also a contemplative look and maybe not expecting joyce to actually speak up for her tho i wonder if they’d really be able to have another fresh start, maybe in another five years but we probably won’t see that happen on screen
I kinda figured Alice sought her out to talk (since she barely said anything before), heard what Jennifer said (I’m too good for this, I’m an alpha etc.) & reacted to that?
Could also be a “I wish I had said this when we met this morning instead of freezing on the spot & then running away”
Either way I think she gets to be sad-eyed as much as she wants. What just Jennifer said is to me less terrible and more deeply embarrassing, but to someone who knew her in high school it probably hits different.
as someone who had a former partner actually threaten to kill me with a car more than once, uh, I’m not on Jennifer’s side here. Accidents happen, but the bad decisions that cause accidents, also still happened. Jennifer is massively self-centered and impulsive, and is so obsessed about reinforcing her own delusional self-image, that she constantly hurts literally everybody who has ever cared about her, in the process.
I have immense sympathy for her life trajectory and the parts of her struggle that are not her direct fault. But I also don’t think that her literal wake of victims are under any obligation to share my sympathy. Especially ’cause they aren’t, y’know, omnipotent observers of her story. They’re observers of their own lives, in which Billie was an unfathomable wrecking ball of carnage and trauma, on a consistent basis.
Yeah, the only real information we have is that Jennifer acted like nothing happened, and the only thing we can surmise from that is:
a) she tried to act like Alice wasn’t affected or hurt.
or
b) she acted like Alice’s feelings didn’t matter (I mean, going by the fact that she said Alice was acting shitty for ditching her kinda makes me lean towards B)
Both of which paint the picture that Jennifer was a self-centered asshole BEFORE the crash. We have absolutely NO evidence that Jennifer has gotten any better.
Except it’s not that simple. We’ve seen her have nightmares about the crash. We know that it was a big factor in her seeing herself as toxic poison who wasn’t safe to be around healthy people – a big factor in the suicide pact.
We know she acted like nothing happened, but we also know it messed her up. What we can conclude from that is that she couldn’t face what she did – and retreated further into denial and the bottle. That’s very different from being a self-centered asshole. That’s trauma.
Now, that doesn’t make it any easier on Alice and she’s well within her rights to want nothing to do with Jennifer.
I’d also say that what happened right before the crash – punching and calling our Chester as a creep and ruining what was supposed to be the high point of her high school career is basically the opposite of self-centered asshole.
Not in this exact moment, but Jennifer was the one who asked Joyce to help her reconcile with Alice and they came to the cafeteria in Alice’s dorm with the express intention of eventually doing so.
The trouble is, Alice doesn’t need to hear this. Jennifer needs to hear this. Softening Alice’s opinion is not about to rekindle that flame… let alone fix this nuclear devastation upon Jennifer’s self-image.
Which still comes second to Raidah dismantling Dorothy’s entire life trajectory.
All Raidah did was point out what Dottie should have figured out halfway though watching Parks and Rec. which she would have because she’s damned near Amy Poehler’s stunt double.
Yeah, Raidah 1000% only said what she said to Dorothy to selfishly do harm, purely for gratification, and because of Dorothy’s social proximity to other people Raidah hates. But, that doesn’t change the fact that Dorothy’s entire obsession was ludicrous levels of childish, and was never going to be healthy or realistic for her to pursue.
I’m not at all sure that a capable young woman setting a goal of leading the country is either childish or necessarily unrealistic. Yes, you want a plan B, but there is nothing wrong with aiming high.
It’s unrealistic in the sense that Dorothy had not in any way actually reckoned with what that ambition would actually require of her, and whether she would be willing or capable of doing what you need to do to achieve it.
It’s also literally childish, both because “I wanna be the president” is sort of a stock child’s fantasy and also because Dorothy decided this when she was still a child.
She, personally, was unrealistic while setting the goal. She, personally, was childish.
A capable young woman would have probably taken the time to plot out her war crime threshold well before she managed to secure a spot in her political dumpster fire of choice to move toward her goal. And probably would have already been enmeshed somewhat before college.
that said, even if she does get another ‘chance’ feels like it’d be a bit awkward/ billiefer might do something that’d screw it up again if not alice feeling ‘obligated’ to spend time with her
Given that this entire plot line started with Jennifer trying to find a character witness to more or less lie about how much she’s changed…still on Alice’s side here.
I also do not see how Jennifer thought this plan would work. If I had cut someone out of my life for the reasons Alice cut Jennifer out and told them to leave me alone, them getting people to tell me how much they have changed would just convince me of the opposite. Because if they had, they would respect my wish to be left alone. Right?
She knows some context, like she was there for Alice and Jennifer meeting up again at college, where MUCH dirty laundry was aired, but I am unsure how much of that she remembers.
I had thought the red background was for traumatic rage or fear. But now I’m thinking that includes traumatic injury, too. Jennifer just got gut-stabbed.
last time Jennifer talked to Alice Jen actually seemed extremely desperate for a conversation, public or otherwise (“Or you can text me!”). So I’d say that yes, she would know that (or could an educated guess, at least)
They’re in a public place. Alice doesn’t need a fucking invitation before she can speak up, especially when Jennifer all but bumped into her (again) while in the process of spewing some hateful shit.
This x100. I don’t even know if Alicerealky meant to hear anything or engage. Everything in yesterdays comic suggested to me that Alice was standing stock still and Billie almost ran into her.
Alice has every right to feel a little irritated that, after telling Jennifer she isn’t wanted in her life, two times in one day she bumps into her, and both times she’s puffing up how great she is. Alice knows this girl. She can recognize the person she is.
Y’know these girls were doing just fine for months without interacting with each other. Instead of having an emotional trauma pissing contest or arguing who’s the asshole, I say let them continue living separate lives. Sometimes friendships and relationships end like two ships passing in the night.
Reminder that it was Jennifer who insisted on doing this, Alice would had indeed preferred to never talk to her again. She has no fault in any of this.
I didn’t say she was at fault? In fact I think trying to place fault here is unproductive to the discussion. Both young women have baggage and sometimes that is too much to overcome at least for the moment.
Nah, but I get why you could read it that way. I’m just seeing the discussion already turn a bit toxic when I think that can be avoided. It’s not whether Alice is wrong for what she said or that Jennifer was trying to get her attention in the first place. Both women have trauma so their interactions won’t be pretty regardless. But that’s fun to read so here we are.
Yes. If someone says “Leave me alone” *leave* *them* *alone*. They have a right to their own life and you do not have any right to control their life. And insisting that they have to talk to you or listen to you, etc. is demanding control over their life. It doesn’t matter if it was a mistake, or you have changed, or anything else.
I kind of doubt the changed person Joyce describes is going to match up very well with who Jennifer is right now – I think it’s going to describe the person Jennifer realizes she needs to become.
With that said, if there’s anyone who can argue that people can change, it’d be Joyce (with maybe a little help from Joe).
Alice did say she loved her, she just pushed her away for the sake of her own safety after Billie refused to acknowledge her drunk driving was a big deal.
This could blow up in Joyce’s face since I don’t think she ever got the full backstory of Alice and Billie… but it’s really sweet that she’s going to try anyway.
I’m not convinced that Jennifer has changed for the better just yet. And unless Joyce knows what happened between Jennifer and Alice, her efforts here might not work very well.
As much as I like Joyce, it would be nice to see what it looks like when one of the people she’s built up onto a pedestal in her head, gets VIOLENTLY knocked over right in front of her. Like, how bad could Alice make Jennifer look, before Joyce will actually snap out of her rah-rah scheme to talk Jennifer up, and rethink her internal image of her friend?
I don’t think Joyce has any illusions about Billie. She knows what the gal’s about, and I really don’t think it involves a pedestal. Joyce is just capable of unconditional friendship and doesn’t dispose of people when they’re inconvenient.
Is she going to stay as Jennifer because she wants to get away from who Billie was, or is she going to go back to Billie because she realized who she was as Jennifer?
Exactly. Rachel is a dribbling buffoon with the eyes and tongue of such, makes sweeping judgements nobody asked for based on outdated intel, and she looks just okay. Alice is working off of the information and behavior available to her and making a reasonable assumption about someone who actually caused her harm, and she’s so painfully hot I’d let her drill a hole in my leg and fill it with gravel.
Far as we know, Ruth was just generally unsociable and not especially pleasant as a roommate. She doesn’t even remember what was so bad, and Rachel wasn’t forthcoming with the deets, so until further notice, that’s the worst Ruth did. Rachel can wallow in her self-imposed misery forever if it means we never see her again.
It’s absolutely something. That hate has to come from somewhere.
It’s possible she’s redirecting anger at something else onto Ruth unfairly, but also like, Ruth has been pretty fucking awful at points, there’s probably fire behind all that smoke.
It would also make sense if Rachel had experience with another abuser. One who played the common “I’m so sorry, I’ll change, I’ll do better” card again and again.
Ruth is actually trying to change, but if you’ve dealt with someone making empty promises to change, that can ring very hollow.
In a certain way she is right, redemption, in the way that is usually portrayed in media and many people aspire to, it’s not real. One can try every day to try to be better and make up for past wrongs and still never really be “redeem”.
Then it’s a worthless concept and there’s no reason to harp on it every time you encounter a person, the way Rachel does to Ruth. All Rachel does is participate in worthless behavior, and it makes her a boring chore of a character. I understand the place for that kind of character, I just also would enjoy seeing her experience real problems.
Everyone knows that when you haven’t done a chore in a long time, it’s just been piling up the entire time and will be much worse when you finally get around to it.
More to the point, Rachel exists in the story as it is, which continues to exist in its published state, so regardless of how recently she’s appeared, she’s still in all the same strips she’s always been in, which lets her remain a chore on re-reads. I’d also argue she hasn’t made a meaningful appearance in the entire run of the comic, being a total waste of pixels and all.
I think that is a great exaggeration and I gonna assume you are being hyperbolic because otherwise that is that excessively harsh for what she has actually done.
I mean Rachel’s kind of a bongo in most of her appearances, but most of her appearances are against Ruth or Joe who she has pretty justifiable grievances with.
My new hourly prediction is this:
1) Joyce actually brings Alice around
2) Jennifer fucks it up
3) Alice tells Joyce what Joyce told her
which would lead to two possible outcomes:
4a) Jennifer actually realizes she needs to change
4b) Jennifer yelling at Joyce, and Joyce telling her to fuck off
So what’s Jennifers fixation on Alice? Is this Season 1 Billie peeking through again, desperately trying to hold on to her High School days? Or is this Jennifer trying to fix a relationship she actually gives a damn about?
i guess just reconnecting since asher isn’t in the pic anymore. that said, i’d imagine alice isn’t as rich off as jen but iwonder how many ppl in a similar istuation would straight up transfer schools to get away
@ taffy and yeah drinking under the influence is never good but idk if it’d be ‘attempted murder’ in that case considering hopefully she didn’t wnat alice hurt versus like her running int osomeone they disliked and trying to mow them down
joyce can only do so much, even if she does want to help, i don’t think she’d have the time to constantly watch over her to make sure she doesn’t fall off the wagon
If anything, her gripe about her therapist shows that she’s at least attended a few.
And while she bailed, she WAS willing to eat lunch with Joyce indefinitely.
It’s difficult for her to change and Alice doesn’t need to associate with her. Thouhh she clearly WANTS to, given she could have walked away or ignored her completely, even after that outburst.
I love how painful it obviously is for Alice to be around Billie. She seems so tempted to rebuild that bridge, but keeps having to distance herself because she’s afraid of being hurt again.
She HAS changed, Alice. She no longer goes HURRK after you give her an earful of shit.
There is no harm or shame in letting go of a high school relationship. Sometimes it’s healthy — in recent times, I’ve found out former classmates have attained upwardly mobile positions in the current administration, harmful to countless Americans. There can be no redemption after that.
Alice’s glance back, in panel 4, speaks volumes. Just like Jennifer still has feeling for Alice, Alice still has feelings for Jennifer. But, “Billie”, hurt her in the past, and it’s going to be difficult to look past that. In comes Joyce, not just to show Alice that Jennifer has changed for the better, but to show Jennifer that as well.
Being in a relationship with an addict is hella painful. They will choose the addiction over you 100% of the time. It’s like you’re an npc in their life.
Recovery. Repentance. Restitution. Billie is still in phase one. She can’t admit she was wrong and hurt Alice. She’s done nothing to repair the relationship or make things right. Until she does, the recovery is unlikely to stick. It’s not happy place to be.
Joyce may be speaking to Alice but it’s Billie that needs to listen.
Jennifer needs to graduate and move on with her life. Does it hurt like hell going to the same school as your ex you want back? Absolutely, I’ve been there. But life actually does move on, and a change in circumstances is an opportunity to build a healthier life.
Okay but there is this is pesky thing called “time” that make it so graduation is something that happens several years from now rather that right now. (I am just joking here)
It’s really funny to interpret this as you rushing Billie to graduation, like it’s something she really ought to be doing right about now and she’s just not for some reason. Like, “Hurry the fuck up, why are you procrastinating on this?” kinda thing.
It’s sucky to tell people they’ll *never* change.
Jennifer is on a weird powertrip that’s not gonna go well for her social life, but that doesn’t mean she hasn’t already changed (hey she’s what, two months sober? That’s amazing!) and she’s trying to change. And if the ways she’s trying to change aren’t working out, she’ll find other ways to change, it will just take a while. Nobody is set in stone at 20.
I don’t expect Alice to be her friend, but she could say “you haven’t changed enough” instead of “you never will”.
Looking at the evidence Alice has available, Billie hasn’t changed and keeps acting the exact same way she always has. There’s no reason for her to think otherwise.
well, not like she was there to observe the change but i wouldn’t be surprised if alice has also changed a lot to where the current versions of themselves still have nothing in common with each other
For me, the difference between Rachel’s “people never change” and Alice’s “Billie, you’ll never change” is that it’s specific. Alice likely does think PEOPLE can change, but doesn’t believe Billie is one of them. And I think the thing about Billie is she obviously can change, but she also backslides. Aside from the drinking and the suicide pact of last semester, she also made great steps to changing from being obsessed with her image and popularity. But, after her break up with Ruth, she regressed and all that change was undone. Now she’s friends with Raidah and all she cares about is her image. I think a big part of her dating Asher (other than him being attractive and convenient) was a big image thing for her. To make her look functional and “normal” and “straight”.
Change is hard especially because you have to stick with it. Billie CAN change… Jennifer can change too. They just need to keep with it as best they can.
maybe ‘baby steps’ compared to joyce’s change, but nothing that’d be impressive to alice i imagine, idk if she’s really done with any kinda ‘redemption arc’ or so, ppl still aren’t trusting asher after all
Tho i guess even if some ppl aren’t on the worse terms, it’s kinda hard not to see ppl as who they were as you knew them, like the title of the current arc lol
I feel like I’m beating a dead horse here, but she’s not drinking. That doesn’t fix all her issues, but it’s far better than she was doing at the start of the comic.
And given that the DUI crash and her reaction to it were key to Alice deciding to ghost her, I think that’ll matter to Alice as well.
she’s entertaining joyce’s ideas and not drinking as far as we know
she still has a long way to go, like not getting pissed off and leaving a few minutes into dealing with other people’s ideas
could stand to ease off the whole “nerd vs popular” thing as well
I know this comic and the earlier one are two incidents spaced months apart but if Alice regularly interacts with Jennifer this way, like, frequently, it’d constitute emotional abuse.
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DEAR GOD ITS JOYCE WITH THE STEEL CHAIR
kabong!
#bestwinggirl
That’s gonna be _her_ superhero name. We gots Amazi-Girl and Night-Guy. Soon, yesss, soon, we will have Wing-Girl, too.
Yesss
YYEEESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!
Affirmative
You only get this kind of action on dumbing of age!!!
You’ll buy the seat but you’ll only need the edge!!!
Joyce DOES pull, actually
Joyce is gonna pull… Alice??
(and later Billiefer walks in on Joyce and Alice making out, and everything is ruined forever)
Hey, we already know Alice can feel like that about women, so that’s one step further along than Dorothy started at!
I feel like right now, nerdy mousy Joyce can pull anyone (and anything!) without even having to try!
Well, it’s her impeccable fashion sense – those sweaters are just so danged CUTE! ^^
I mean, even if she has , alice has no obligation to give billie another chance, i can imagine more drama where they /have/ to be together bc of school stuff (tho i imagine there not being any classest together or if thy wouldn’t bhave brought it up)
Alright, let’s see if Joyce can pull Jennifer out of this fire.
Time will tell if that’s a bucket of water she’s holding or a bucket of kerosene.
I think Joyce is going to perform well enough, so it’s a water bucket.
Just a question of if this is the sort of fire that water can put out or if there’s grease in this thing.
Maybe not a full bucket, but she’s definitely going to tamp the fire down, I agree.
Hey now, kerosene got us to the moon.
She need to get her to stop throwing gasoline everywhere first.
Let’s see what cards she’s holding.
‘She’s gotten so much worse’ – Anti-Joyce
Lolll
“My favorite thing is other people ordering for me at restaurants”
“I’m on my third blender this semester. I keep burning them out because I love all components of a meal to be as combined as possible.”
“And for the love of all the gods (since I’m pagan), don’t ever cook mac’n’cheese by just the instructions. Spice things up a bit!”
I’ve actually acquired a Polytron to really homogenise my food
The Indonesian electronics company?
I think they’re talking about the machine for reducing an entire mouse to a soup-like homogenate in 30 seconds
If Joyce was okay with *knowing* that homogenous food pastes are made of multiple ingredients, I feel like she’d enjoy having a blender. Unfortunately, I think she insisted once that there are no ingredients in ketchup, and it’s just formed from the ether.
She’d probably say something like homogenous food pastes are still their constituent ingredients, but ketchup ingredients “become” the ketchup.
“Picky eater” rules are based on vibes, not logic.
Has she now?
*munches popcorn*
Yeah.
This is gonna be a fucking interesting storyline from here on out.
Maybe she has. In the past, she probably never would have hung out with people like Joyce. Now she will grace them with her presence so long as they are constantly reminded how much better she is than them.
Did ya’ll forgot Walky? He was her off-again on-again friend all through school.
There was a comic where he talks about her ditching him constantly and fucking up, then going back to him.
He was her backup safety net friend, there in case she had a falling out with the cool popular kids. She had no qualms about shoving him into lockers as long as she didn’t need him.
Then at the beginning of the comic, she didn’t have the cool kids to hang out with anymore, so she fell back to good old reliable goofball Walky.
Then she got an in with a new clique of “cool kids” (Raidah and company), so she was free to go back to neglecting Walky again.
I thought Carla had a monopoly on that role.
i mean one could argue she got worse unless she also had a lesbian suicide pact in HS too and this was her ‘go to’ lol
Jennifer never carries coins on her. Bills only.
Ha. I took me a minute to get it, but that is actually pretty funny.
She’s become even more toxic and destructive
“Yeah, she drove away that awful kid she grew up with who ruined Dorothy.”
Man, poor Danny, he can’t even get the credit for being the one to ruin Dottie.
“Who is Danny?” – Joyce
“Well, she doesn’t drink anymore.”
Give her a minute
That’s kind of a shitty thing to tell someone, right? Alice doesn’t ever have to forgive Jennifer, but I don’t see what this accomplishes.
Jennifer has come up to her twice now, despite her telling her to leave her alone. She wants to say something mean to push her away and get her to leave her alone.
All that said, yes it still is a pretty shitty thing to tell someone
In fairness this time Alice sorta came up to her?
Alice was walking by in the building where she lives when Jennifer’s storm-off put them face-to-face. And let us not forget that Jennifer and Joyce EXPLICITLY chose to have lunch here to try to ‘accidentally’ run into Alice. So no.
They’re trying to eat lunch in Alice’s vicinity. As far as I am aware, the plan doesn’t involve actually calling out to Alice or approaching her. This face to face was just an accident.
Better fairness, I think, is the fact that Jennifer tried to talk to her earlier and now that Jennifer was storming out she overheard her talk herself up as “at the top of my game, I don’t need this.” I imagine Alice heard that, and between this and earlier today — when she *also* was bragging about herself while getting in Alice’s way — she is very much not in the mood for Jennifer’s bullshit.
From her perspective, her toxic ex barreled over a boundary to brag about herself twice in one day after Alice bluntly told her “don’t fucking talk to me.” She has enough of a history with Jennifer to sense how she does things.
It is a shitty thing, we sometimes say shitty things to the people who hurt us. Sometimes it is justified sometimes it is not. In this moment, it is complicated, but still not on Alice to be nice here.
How much did Alice even hear. Cause I think the context really matters for this. This was not a drama scenario. But y’know dumping on Jen is fun probably.
It IS really fun thanks you very much.
I think Alice only heard yesterday’s strip, where Jen’s dialogue was very Billie-esque.
She’s mad at someone who has done / is doing shitty stuff to her, but maybe more to the point, someone who she trusted and loves but betrayed her trust and love
I think it’s easier to say something is bad to say when we’re detached readers of a webcomic
It’s a moral-consequentialist-sub-optimal, but pretty understandable, and relatable impulse I think
I’m not even sure she did. I don’t think Willis would have introduced roofies into the scene with her DUI if not for the fact that it’s a Chekov’s gun.
Why? Literally what would there be for that? It adds nothing to the story, in fact it takes sways from it by taking the responsibility for her biggest mistake off Jennifer. We have no actual reason to believe it was anything but her drunk driving.
It creates a new villain and makes us understand that Jennifer beat herself up to suicidal depression over another toxic male.
So DRAMA.
You think Willis just create random drama for the sake of it without rhyme or reason? That is a unflattering way to think of someone story.
I just explained the reasoning. You’re welcome not to like it but I’m very excited about the possibility and would love to see it.
I hope it doesn’t then.
You’ve got solid reasoning for why you think it’d be a dramatic thing to happen, but there are many dramatic things that would make for a compelling story that nonetheless are unlikely to happen in this story.
What? You want the DUI not to as much her fault? She had still been drinking regardless of hypothetical roofies, and she was the alpha cheerleader who made sure others don’t get roofied. It wouldn’t be in character at all.
Billie was a reckless alcoholic, and eventually the inevitable happened. It would be bad writing to try and reduce her culpability now.
@Adept
If Jennifer was a functional alcoholic and the alcohol was combined with a roofie… Suddenly she gets way drunker than she thought she would be while on the road. Alcohol and roofie combined fuck you up way more together than you’d expect from how each thing fucks You up individually. I hate to say it but IIRC a lot of people who get into crashes because they drink and drive are people who drink and drive regularly. You think you’re still in control until you aren’t. (Don’t drink and drive)
It’s like, hey, if she had a non alcoholic beverage and got roofie she’d get sleepy at the wheel but still have time to park. (I’d say to ask me how I’d know but I feel like the answer is pretty obvious.)
(I don’t drive period much less while drunk)
But Jennifer was still driving while knowingly under the influence. Alice would still be very justified in being mad at Jennifer for drinking, driving, and crashing.
What does making her less culpable for the accident add to the story? Just… raw drama for the sake of it?
Golly it’s sure nice to be here and to see people talking about what would be good and sensible for the storytelling
Not a perspective I have been always graced with in online communities
I think if that was the intent we’d have seen Billie drink from something other than her own flask.
Seems far more likely to me it’s there to both reinforce Billie’s image as someone who is looking out for the other girls, and an implication about something Chester might have done in the past.
Depends where she filled it from.
what do you think the odds of her filling her own personal flask from the punchbowl are?
Depends if she was the alcohol spiker before he roofied it.
How does this theory square the roofie having come from a spiked communal punchbowl with Billie being either the only one affected or failing to connect the dots between her falling asleep at the wheel and a bunch of other students showing signs of getting drugged.
Like, if the intent was for Billie to have gotten drugged by someone, there are a lot of ways to hint at that, and we saw literally none of them.
Do you think she brought a separate bottle of alcohol to spike the punch, drained her flask, then came back later and refilled her flask with the punch she spiked?
Why not just top off her flask with the unpunched alcohol before spiking the punch? Why risk getting caught filling your flask from the punchbowl? There’s so much time and spillage involved in filling a flask with a ladle, and submerging the flask in the punch bowl is hardly any more discreet.
You’re really reaching here.
The point isn’t that her drinking from her own flask makes it impossible for her to have been roofied, it’s that her drinking from her own flask shows us that she was drinking. Following that scene of her drinking with the car crash that’s always been described as a DUI establishes narrative causality.
Her also being roofied undermines her whole arc and her agency. It gives her an excuse while not changing her behavior. She still drank and drove, but now she’d have a plausible excuse to say “It wasn’t my fault. I could have handled the booze and driven safely.”
This is not going to happen.
billie was drinking out of her own flask. she decided to drink alcohol and then drive. having her be roofied just absolves her from the decision that she made, which was to drink and drive. like, they test you when they give you a dui, they dont just decide that you were drunk…
Thanks.
What is this, People With Lucy Avatars Understand The Comic Day?
Ummm isn’t that every day?
(this comment will be less funny when the grav roulette decides I am no longer Lucy)
+1
Yup yup. We had a drunk driver crash into our garage door last year. Thankfully he was too drunk to hide his car very well and it was obvious. But because we didn’t have video that showed *him* driving the car and because he wasn’t tested at the time of driving, police weren’t going to arrest him. I was surprised at how lax it all was.
Thankfully, the guy was decent enough to admit to it immediately and paid my inlaws for the damages insurance didn’t cover.
Unfortunately, he is definitely not the only guy on the block to drive drunk. A different neighbor ping-ponged off 5 parked cars going down the street once, even lost his license for a while? Still hasn’t stopped. But unless you’re going to stay up until 3 am monitoring cars, what can you do. :/
It is, but to be fair, Alice most likely heard Jennifer’s rant about how she’s better than everyone else.
I mean, Alice is not *wrong.*
Billie has shown negative character growth during the bulk of the comic. and in the few interactions they’ve had, Billie has stepped in it every which way, without ever admitting she was at fault.
So while it IS mean to say, it’s also the god damned truth and she needs some truth to the face right now.
I haven’t thought about it super hard but I’m gut-skeptical to this negative growth POV
Her behavior has worsened but I’m inclined to read it as an unavoidable stop on the way to her getting better
The real poison that was always there inside had to see the sun to get cleaned
Maybe. One can hope anyway. I see a lot of potential in her volatility and I’m rooting for her
I couldn’t describe Bennifer’s character development in this strip as anything more or less than two steps forward, two steps back. She briefly changes when forced, or when she’s chasing something/fears abandonment, but as soon as that change gets even slightly inconvenient or hard, she FULLY pendulums back to the exact person she was in high school in, like, a matter of seconds.
“Negative growth” is a very fair thing to accuse her of. She was in a much healthier, stabler place at the start of this comic, and she constantly dips back to a version of herself that predates even that.
Funny enough, even that itself is her “changing”; I definitely wouldn’t say the Bennifer from the beginning of the comic is the one that’s here, but the Pendulum of her going from a person that’s actively doing better & bettering herself to this version of her that’s essentially Pre-Car Crash she keeps trying to keep up because she believes she peaked in High School has been so much more drastic & noticeable.
Its like Ado said; she’s getting worse but I’m inclined to believe she’s gonna hit a point soon with these behavior swings & realization that will involve her actually moving on from the High School stuff. Just waiting to see what she does with that Hoodie, its gonna be symbolic in all this.
At the beginning of the comic she was a functional alcoholic. Now she is a recovering alcoholic. I have to count that as an improvement.
Yeah. As long as she’s not drinking, she at least has the potential to improve eventually. There’s no way she was going to improve while drinking.
That’s a kind of progress, even if she’s still exhibiting all kinds of toxic traits and avoiding self-reflection.
She may not be drinking right now, but I can’t help but see this storyline as the precursor to a relapse.
Relapses are common. Very few alcoholics get clean without falling of the wagon a few times. She’s apparently done so once already – we know she stopped before the timeskip and she said recent she hadn’t had a drink for two months, which doesn’t quite add up.
It’s still an incredibly important step. She’s got other issues, but even acknowledging she needs to stop and making a serious attempt is huge.
She wasn’t in a healthier place, she was just better able to hide her trauma breakdowns because we weren’t enmeshed in her life until she started destructing with Ruth. Also the booze helped her mask.
Losing Ruth put her into a *visible* spiral, but she was circling the drain well before then.
She put up her “I’m a cheerleader” persona, putting her nickname away like Clark Kent putting his suit back on, then finds a “bad boy” to bang the gay away, and THAT falls apart because Asher *isn’t* self destructive and won’t play her game.
Then, when her “friend” circle implodes because she fucked up… Again, she tries to hook back into Walky’s life… Again. Like she constantly did in high school.
But this time, Walky’s actually grown as a person and isn’t just a wad of chewed gum ready to be picked off the bottom of a table anymore.
(I know the Raidah Club for Infinite Losers weren’t her friends, but Billie thought they were.)
Part of this was for Ado, but I can’t really find a good place to break up the idea, and I think it needs to be one blurb to be better understood on just how long Billie has dug this self destructive hole.
I have to disagree thoroughly. Billie was in a terrible state at the start of this comic. She was an alcoholic coming off having learned nothing from the drunk driving incident. She had a fake ID, was trying to bum drinks off Tony, and that’s all before being physically and mentally tormented by Ruth before they even started dating. People may not like Jennifer now because she tried (and failed mind you) to hard reset her social priorities, but she’s lightyears ahead of where she was. Based on her sobriety and guilt ridden trauma flashbacks while she grumbles alone in bed she may even be starting to learn remorse.
What people want is a very brief, curated form of Jennifer that was nice to Walky, and dating Ruth, and hung with the main group more often. But we’re not getting all of that back.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-11/02-look-straight-ahead/spending/
Outside of currently being on the wagon, I just see her making the same mistakes, only sober this time. With the consequences of those same choices happening faster and without the numbing effect of the booze to keep her from feeling anything.
Until Billie is able to pull her head out of the sand, or have it forcible removed with the help of a crane, Joyce doesn’t really have anything to prove her point outside of the sobriety.
Which… Admittedly, isn’t “nothing”… But it’s really not something you dramatically stand up in the middle of a not-Chipotle to hold up as a beacon of personal growth to wow your acquaintance’s jilted lesbian high school bestie.
But Joyce thinks Jennifer is her friend and she wants to help. She’s also incurably romantic.
I mean, when your jilted lesbian high school bestie’s biggest complaint was that “you got blitzed and wrecked a car and you thought that was fine”, getting sober is a pretty damned big step.
I disagree with calling her Billifer but it’s at least understandable as a mash between the two things she has called herself. Calling her Bennifer feels a lot more like deliberate masculinizing her name. If that’s not intended I understand. Does creeps me out without knowing if so. I get the character has been a terrible person. If you are going to call her names, call her names. But like uh… yeah can we at least not go that direction if that is the direction intended?
Ten to one, they’re subconsciously remembering the affleck/lopez ship name from the oughts.
Fair enough
I think both POVs have some good points here
i wonder if her and ruth’s hospitalization ever made it into some local newspaper/must’ve been the talk of the college for weeks after it happened
Something like a hospitalization like that wouldn’t be published in a newspaper, and it’s a big school– it might have been the talk of the hall for a while, and maybe reached some of the other floors and friends of some characters, but the vast majority of students likely never heard about.
Also – holy crap, we’re only four days from having a Buffer a full year ahead.
Imagine if Willis got so far ahead that we end up having reverse sliding timescale because Willis has to write for over a year in his own past.
I got a full year about a week or so ago, but I’ve been Kickstarter Preparationing too hard to keep up my usual tempo.
What’s it like a year in the future? Better?
After Trump and Musk died in that plane crash it was pretty sweet, up to that it was a hellscape. J. D. Vance survived but was too banged up to serve, and by the time they went down the line of succession they all bailed until we got to Schumer. It’s only been a few weeks but the economy is starting to turn around.
Don’t toy with us, describing such a utopia as that.
Schumer isn’t my idea of utopia, but it’s a lot better than the insanely stupid time-line.
Schumer is terrible, and complicit since he caved on the budget. It would be an improvement, but I don’t see it.
Let’s be real if some calamity made Schumer heir apparent, he’d probably let the republicans bully him out of it
Note they didn’t mean Chuck but Amy.
The temporal distortions around Willis being a year removed from the world around him are what messes up the site’s clock and makes the updates late.
Oh, fuck you, Alice, you don’t get to be sad-eyed when Jennifer hangs on your every word and you tell her she’s terrible.
And what, you sought her out as she was trying just to tell her she was guaranteed to fail? Fuck.
Yes, she gets to be sad? Because she loved her even though she hurts her so much? Why is it so hard to be emphatic for this traumatized young women who clearly has contradicting fellings towards the person who give her that trauma?
Why do you think she’s sad
Eyes gets extra shinny, usually meaning that they are getting teary.
Clarification
I was prompting to think about the causes of her sadness
I am aware she is sad
But thanks nevertheless
*Prompting them to think about the causes
I’m a bit of an edit addict and not having it here will be interesting…
i think it’s also a contemplative look and maybe not expecting joyce to actually speak up for her tho i wonder if they’d really be able to have another fresh start, maybe in another five years but we probably won’t see that happen on screen
Again: Jennifer nearly killed her.
And again, look how much good it did her. The woman is hot fire in the heart of a screaming volcano.
I mean Jennifer wasn’t exactly being a model citizen in the last strip, and Alice definitely heard at least some of that.
I kinda figured Alice sought her out to talk (since she barely said anything before), heard what Jennifer said (I’m too good for this, I’m an alpha etc.) & reacted to that?
Could also be a “I wish I had said this when we met this morning instead of freezing on the spot & then running away”
Either way I think she gets to be sad-eyed as much as she wants. What just Jennifer said is to me less terrible and more deeply embarrassing, but to someone who knew her in high school it probably hits different.
as someone who had a former partner actually threaten to kill me with a car more than once, uh, I’m not on Jennifer’s side here. Accidents happen, but the bad decisions that cause accidents, also still happened. Jennifer is massively self-centered and impulsive, and is so obsessed about reinforcing her own delusional self-image, that she constantly hurts literally everybody who has ever cared about her, in the process.
I have immense sympathy for her life trajectory and the parts of her struggle that are not her direct fault. But I also don’t think that her literal wake of victims are under any obligation to share my sympathy. Especially ’cause they aren’t, y’know, omnipotent observers of her story. They’re observers of their own lives, in which Billie was an unfathomable wrecking ball of carnage and trauma, on a consistent basis.
Yeah, the only real information we have is that Jennifer acted like nothing happened, and the only thing we can surmise from that is:
a) she tried to act like Alice wasn’t affected or hurt.
or
b) she acted like Alice’s feelings didn’t matter (I mean, going by the fact that she said Alice was acting shitty for ditching her kinda makes me lean towards B)
Both of which paint the picture that Jennifer was a self-centered asshole BEFORE the crash. We have absolutely NO evidence that Jennifer has gotten any better.
Except it’s not that simple. We’ve seen her have nightmares about the crash. We know that it was a big factor in her seeing herself as toxic poison who wasn’t safe to be around healthy people – a big factor in the suicide pact.
We know she acted like nothing happened, but we also know it messed her up. What we can conclude from that is that she couldn’t face what she did – and retreated further into denial and the bottle. That’s very different from being a self-centered asshole. That’s trauma.
Now, that doesn’t make it any easier on Alice and she’s well within her rights to want nothing to do with Jennifer.
I’d also say that what happened right before the crash – punching and calling our Chester as a creep and ruining what was supposed to be the high point of her high school career is basically the opposite of self-centered asshole.
Wait, who sought who out? It looks to me like they happened to bump into each other. Neither of them sought the other out.
Not in this exact moment, but Jennifer was the one who asked Joyce to help her reconcile with Alice and they came to the cafeteria in Alice’s dorm with the express intention of eventually doing so.
Those are some very spikey light fixtures. They remind me of pineapples. I wonder what is up with that.
It’s fire.
oh, wait, the other spikey thing. Very much like pineapple
Damn. That panel three pose juxtaposition goes hard
Oh yeah. ALL the ouch.
And not even just for Jenn
Alice straight as a statue is just
Poor girl
I can’t decide if I want Joyce to make a real pitch or an accidentally-damning-with-faint-praise-by-recounting-events pitch.
It’s a 50/50
You two having the same avi made me think it was a double post lol
Haha, I know, sometimes I get confused in the comments and just say, “When did I write that?!”
That’s why I always check the name.
Ane of you needs to add a goatee and be the “Evil” twin.
That would look ridiculous.
i mean she did ‘help’ a bit when joyce was freaking out about her autism review
The first time Joyce met Alice, Jennifer stood up for her and Walky. She’d misread the situation, she’d changed some already by then.
Jesus you know that one sucked when you’re making me feel bad for Jennifer of all people
The trouble is, Alice doesn’t need to hear this. Jennifer needs to hear this. Softening Alice’s opinion is not about to rekindle that flame… let alone fix this nuclear devastation upon Jennifer’s self-image.
Which still comes second to Raidah dismantling Dorothy’s entire life trajectory.
All Raidah did was point out what Dottie should have figured out halfway though watching Parks and Rec. which she would have because she’s damned near Amy Poehler’s stunt double.
Yeah, Raidah 1000% only said what she said to Dorothy to selfishly do harm, purely for gratification, and because of Dorothy’s social proximity to other people Raidah hates. But, that doesn’t change the fact that Dorothy’s entire obsession was ludicrous levels of childish, and was never going to be healthy or realistic for her to pursue.
I’m not at all sure that a capable young woman setting a goal of leading the country is either childish or necessarily unrealistic. Yes, you want a plan B, but there is nothing wrong with aiming high.
It’s unrealistic in the sense that Dorothy had not in any way actually reckoned with what that ambition would actually require of her, and whether she would be willing or capable of doing what you need to do to achieve it.
It’s also literally childish, both because “I wanna be the president” is sort of a stock child’s fantasy and also because Dorothy decided this when she was still a child.
She, personally, was unrealistic while setting the goal. She, personally, was childish.
A capable young woman would have probably taken the time to plot out her war crime threshold well before she managed to secure a spot in her political dumpster fire of choice to move toward her goal. And probably would have already been enmeshed somewhat before college.
imagine if alice became besties with lucy or so
that said, even if she does get another ‘chance’ feels like it’d be a bit awkward/ billiefer might do something that’d screw it up again if not alice feeling ‘obligated’ to spend time with her
Given that this entire plot line started with Jennifer trying to find a character witness to more or less lie about how much she’s changed…still on Alice’s side here.
Would be weird if you weren’t.
I also do not see how Jennifer thought this plan would work. If I had cut someone out of my life for the reasons Alice cut Jennifer out and told them to leave me alone, them getting people to tell me how much they have changed would just convince me of the opposite. Because if they had, they would respect my wish to be left alone. Right?
Well. This is gonna be interesting. Considering Joyce does not know the actual context here.
She knows some context, like she was there for Alice and Jennifer meeting up again at college, where MUCH dirty laundry was aired, but I am unsure how much of that she remembers.
And it’s even more disturbing to think about how she’s going to react to that.
i wouldn’t be surprised if walky casually mentioned it too
Problem. Solver.
I had thought the red background was for traumatic rage or fear. But now I’m thinking that includes traumatic injury, too. Jennifer just got gut-stabbed.
Damn, Alice really hurt her badly.
Oh Joyce, you say Jennifer is your friend…but what solution will you offer for this?
If you put a bunch of shit in the air, don’t be surprised if that person’s friends come to their defense.
What Alice didn’t expect was that Jennifer DOES have friends.
Panel 4 doesn’t look like someone who *wants* to be right about this, so maybe she’ll be receptive to Joyce’s pitch. We shall see.
I’m seeing she doesn’t _want_ to push Jennifer away, but she feels she _needs_ to. Yeah, Joyce might change that equation.
Alice looks like she’s desperately hoping for Jennifer to proof her wrong.
This is going to end in tears… but I’m not certain yet exactly what kind.
As much as Jennifer can be a shitty person, it’s still really heartwarming to see Joyce stick up for her.
I’d say is, not ”can be”. She’s been consistently awful.
Alice, if you’re going to enter a conversation you weren’t invited to, don’t be surprised if you get pushback.
What a weird thing to say.
She was literally invited though
This conversation started for the point of attracting Alice’s attention
That was the point
No, she wasn’t. She overheard Jennifer leaving and decided to give her a verbal beatdown in public.
Jennifer hadn’t extended any public invitation to talk.
She told her one single sentence. 4 words. You are being very weird.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/03-me-and-who-you-say-i-was-yesterday/almost/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/03-me-and-who-you-say-i-was-yesterday/notices/
The reason Jenn held this conversation in the first place was an effort to get Alice to overhear her and notice her and react
Jenn got exactly what she explicitly wanted, according to the text of the comic, going into this conversation
Stop understanding what you read, it’s upsetting to the ones who aren’t capable of it.
I don’t doubt that Jennifer wanted to stop by but Alice doesn’t know that.
I got no idea why you’re going this hard for Alice, a character who so far has every right to be angry at Jennifer.
last time Jennifer talked to Alice Jen actually seemed extremely desperate for a conversation, public or otherwise (“Or you can text me!”). So I’d say that yes, she would know that (or could an educated guess, at least)
They’re in a public place. Alice doesn’t need a fucking invitation before she can speak up, especially when Jennifer all but bumped into her (again) while in the process of spewing some hateful shit.
This x100. I don’t even know if Alicerealky meant to hear anything or engage. Everything in yesterdays comic suggested to me that Alice was standing stock still and Billie almost ran into her.
Jennifer left the conversation. Then, she ran into Alice. New conversation.
Alice has every right to feel a little irritated that, after telling Jennifer she isn’t wanted in her life, two times in one day she bumps into her, and both times she’s puffing up how great she is. Alice knows this girl. She can recognize the person she is.
Joyce is the best. And she’s consistently the best. What a gift
Y’know these girls were doing just fine for months without interacting with each other. Instead of having an emotional trauma pissing contest or arguing who’s the asshole, I say let them continue living separate lives. Sometimes friendships and relationships end like two ships passing in the night.
Reminder that it was Jennifer who insisted on doing this, Alice would had indeed preferred to never talk to her again. She has no fault in any of this.
I didn’t say she was at fault? In fact I think trying to place fault here is unproductive to the discussion. Both young women have baggage and sometimes that is too much to overcome at least for the moment.
It looked like you were trying to “both sides” this situation with “pissing contest” and “who is the asshole” sentences. Sorry if I misunderstood.
Nah, but I get why you could read it that way. I’m just seeing the discussion already turn a bit toxic when I think that can be avoided. It’s not whether Alice is wrong for what she said or that Jennifer was trying to get her attention in the first place. Both women have trauma so their interactions won’t be pretty regardless. But that’s fun to read so here we are.
“discussion already turn a bit toxic”
Alice and Jennifer, or the comment section jumping at the bit when someone interprets a scene differently?
They absolutely were.
Yes. If someone says “Leave me alone” *leave* *them* *alone*. They have a right to their own life and you do not have any right to control their life. And insisting that they have to talk to you or listen to you, etc. is demanding control over their life. It doesn’t matter if it was a mistake, or you have changed, or anything else.
And hey, if they happen to have dropped their wallet with $700 inside and won’t listen when you try to give it back, that’s free money.
Crabsolutely agreed.
[Citation needed]
Joyce: “I AM the citation.”
“You’re too close to the edge.”
“I am the edge.”
I kind of doubt the changed person Joyce describes is going to match up very well with who Jennifer is right now – I think it’s going to describe the person Jennifer realizes she needs to become.
With that said, if there’s anyone who can argue that people can change, it’d be Joyce (with maybe a little help from Joe).
I’m not up on DYW’s graphic language, but is Alice getting misty-eyed? That might make her more receptive to Joyce’s words.
Yeah, pretty sure there’s something going on inside Alice.
Alice did say she loved her, she just pushed her away for the sake of her own safety after Billie refused to acknowledge her drunk driving was a big deal.
I think that’s hunger, since she’s in the cafeteria. Hunger or digestion, safe bet.
Hunger while looking at Jennifer. Alice comes from a cannibal family.
Their first re-union ended with Alice in tears talking about how she loved Billie, so yeah I think she’s still got a lot of feelings about this.
Whether that makes Joyce’s job easier or harder is still up in the air.
damn hit her with the ” if you pause the video right here, you can see where her heart shattered into a thousand pieces” coooooollddd
This could blow up in Joyce’s face since I don’t think she ever got the full backstory of Alice and Billie… but it’s really sweet that she’s going to try anyway.
Like, real change. And not 35 cents.
red panel red panel two in one storyline? now that’s something red panel RED PANEL
I hope we don’t next see Jennifer off the wagon.
I’m thinking that will depend on if she’s alone or kept company in the immediate short term.
I mean, she has and she hasn’t. Jury’s still out on whether the changes she did make are for the better.
I’m not convinced that Jennifer has changed for the better just yet. And unless Joyce knows what happened between Jennifer and Alice, her efforts here might not work very well.
As much as I like Joyce, it would be nice to see what it looks like when one of the people she’s built up onto a pedestal in her head, gets VIOLENTLY knocked over right in front of her. Like, how bad could Alice make Jennifer look, before Joyce will actually snap out of her rah-rah scheme to talk Jennifer up, and rethink her internal image of her friend?
I don’t think Joyce has any illusions about Billie. She knows what the gal’s about, and I really don’t think it involves a pedestal. Joyce is just capable of unconditional friendship and doesn’t dispose of people when they’re inconvenient.
Uhm…. Maybe I just don’t remember but when has Joyce put her on a pedestal?
Is she going to stay as Jennifer because she wants to get away from who Billie was, or is she going to go back to Billie because she realized who she was as Jennifer?
She will become Jenlie, the perfect being.
Bennifer, until she remembers that Gigli exists.
Alice is so much better at this than Rachel, and it’s not even close.
“There’s no such thing as redemption.”
Exactly. Rachel is a dribbling buffoon with the eyes and tongue of such, makes sweeping judgements nobody asked for based on outdated intel, and she looks just okay. Alice is working off of the information and behavior available to her and making a reasonable assumption about someone who actually caused her harm, and she’s so painfully hot I’d let her drill a hole in my leg and fill it with gravel.
I’m not looking forward to the Rachel arc that we all know is coming. Ruth did *something*. Unless I’m forgetting and that was already shown.
Far as we know, Ruth was just generally unsociable and not especially pleasant as a roommate. She doesn’t even remember what was so bad, and Rachel wasn’t forthcoming with the deets, so until further notice, that’s the worst Ruth did. Rachel can wallow in her self-imposed misery forever if it means we never see her again.
It’s no coincidence that Willis drew her in the scenes where Ruth was showing actual remorse for her actions.
It’s absolutely something. That hate has to come from somewhere.
It’s possible she’s redirecting anger at something else onto Ruth unfairly, but also like, Ruth has been pretty fucking awful at points, there’s probably fire behind all that smoke.
I like to think Ruth had a previous girlfriend to Billie that she drove off and devastated.
Ruth barely remembers her because she has her own problems.
Ruth says she didn’t realize she liked girls until Billie, so I wouldn’t bet on that.
But the idea that Rachel (or one of her friends) was sort of a proto-Billie to Ruth who bore the brunt of her bullying seems pretty plausible.
It would also make sense if Rachel had experience with another abuser. One who played the common “I’m so sorry, I’ll change, I’ll do better” card again and again.
Ruth is actually trying to change, but if you’ve dealt with someone making empty promises to change, that can ring very hollow.
In a certain way she is right, redemption, in the way that is usually portrayed in media and many people aspire to, it’s not real. One can try every day to try to be better and make up for past wrongs and still never really be “redeem”.
Then it’s a worthless concept and there’s no reason to harp on it every time you encounter a person, the way Rachel does to Ruth. All Rachel does is participate in worthless behavior, and it makes her a boring chore of a character. I understand the place for that kind of character, I just also would enjoy seeing her experience real problems.
I mean she can’t really be a chore since she hasn’t make any meaningfully appearance in several years.
Everyone knows that when you haven’t done a chore in a long time, it’s just been piling up the entire time and will be much worse when you finally get around to it.
More to the point, Rachel exists in the story as it is, which continues to exist in its published state, so regardless of how recently she’s appeared, she’s still in all the same strips she’s always been in, which lets her remain a chore on re-reads. I’d also argue she hasn’t made a meaningful appearance in the entire run of the comic, being a total waste of pixels and all.
I think that is a great exaggeration and I gonna assume you are being hyperbolic because otherwise that is that excessively harsh for what she has actually done.
No, I’m dead serious. Rachel can go screw.
In that case, that is very weird and I hope you rethink it sometime.
I mean Rachel’s kind of a bongo in most of her appearances, but most of her appearances are against Ruth or Joe who she has pretty justifiable grievances with.
I read that as “Ratchet”, and was like “wait, what issue of the comic was that?”
Great, now I wanna play one of my favorite action platformers again.
I think this storyline is less “Jennifer has changed” and more “Jennifer realizes what she needs to be happier (being more of a nerd.)
You could kinda see her swinging that way in the Halloween flashback, until Ruth dumped her and hit the reset button at least.
“She’s not in a suicide pact, spiraling towards total self-destruction anymore. Or showing up drunk everywhere.”
Panel 3 Alice does look like she regrets what she said. Or maybe she’s sad that Billifer didn’t prove her wrong.
Or she prove her right. Old Billie will throw a drama about that she changed or at least backtalk, not silently leave with sad face
Oh Joyce. She always sees the best in people. This’ll be interesting.
My new hourly prediction is this:
1) Joyce actually brings Alice around
2) Jennifer fucks it up
3) Alice tells Joyce what Joyce told her
which would lead to two possible outcomes:
4a) Jennifer actually realizes she needs to change
4b) Jennifer yelling at Joyce, and Joyce telling her to fuck off
I was going to ask which ‘Joyce’ in point 3 was supposed to be ‘Jennifer’, but I think points 4 mean it’s the first one.
This is the moment when the musical number starts
So what’s Jennifers fixation on Alice? Is this Season 1 Billie peeking through again, desperately trying to hold on to her High School days? Or is this Jennifer trying to fix a relationship she actually gives a damn about?
it’s love
Attempted murder with a motor vehicle is not love.b
Honestly a bit of both, but I’d lean towards the latter.
i guess just reconnecting since asher isn’t in the pic anymore. that said, i’d imagine alice isn’t as rich off as jen but iwonder how many ppl in a similar istuation would straight up transfer schools to get away
@ taffy and yeah drinking under the influence is never good but idk if it’d be ‘attempted murder’ in that case considering hopefully she didn’t wnat alice hurt versus like her running int osomeone they disliked and trying to mow them down
I was being hyperbolic, you see.
Joyce to the rescue it the very desperate situation. Let’s see is she can work her magic and help Jennifer to return with Alice. Go magic Joyce!
being sober for multiple months is actually a pretty big change. So there’s that, at least.
joyce can only do so much, even if she does want to help, i don’t think she’d have the time to constantly watch over her to make sure she doesn’t fall off the wagon
If anything, her gripe about her therapist shows that she’s at least attended a few.
And while she bailed, she WAS willing to eat lunch with Joyce indefinitely.
It’s difficult for her to change and Alice doesn’t need to associate with her. Thouhh she clearly WANTS to, given she could have walked away or ignored her completely, even after that outburst.
I love how painful it obviously is for Alice to be around Billie. She seems so tempted to rebuild that bridge, but keeps having to distance herself because she’s afraid of being hurt again.
She HAS changed, Alice. She no longer goes HURRK after you give her an earful of shit.
There is no harm or shame in letting go of a high school relationship. Sometimes it’s healthy — in recent times, I’ve found out former classmates have attained upwardly mobile positions in the current administration, harmful to countless Americans. There can be no redemption after that.
Which is Robin not jennifer.
Alice’s glance back, in panel 4, speaks volumes. Just like Jennifer still has feeling for Alice, Alice still has feelings for Jennifer. But, “Billie”, hurt her in the past, and it’s going to be difficult to look past that. In comes Joyce, not just to show Alice that Jennifer has changed for the better, but to show Jennifer that as well.
Damn. I was expecting a sparring match, not an obliterating OH-KO. And a red panel… Given how Jen’s day started, I’m worried for her safety.
ditto
Jennifer Billingsworth’s No Good Very Bad Day continues.
Being in a relationship with an addict is hella painful. They will choose the addiction over you 100% of the time. It’s like you’re an npc in their life.
Recovery. Repentance. Restitution. Billie is still in phase one. She can’t admit she was wrong and hurt Alice. She’s done nothing to repair the relationship or make things right. Until she does, the recovery is unlikely to stick. It’s not happy place to be.
Joyce may be speaking to Alice but it’s Billie that needs to listen.
Jennifer needs to graduate and move on with her life. Does it hurt like hell going to the same school as your ex you want back? Absolutely, I’ve been there. But life actually does move on, and a change in circumstances is an opportunity to build a healthier life.
Okay but there is this is pesky thing called “time” that make it so graduation is something that happens several years from now rather that right now. (I am just joking here)
It’s really funny to interpret this as you rushing Billie to graduation, like it’s something she really ought to be doing right about now and she’s just not for some reason. Like, “Hurry the fuck up, why are you procrastinating on this?” kinda thing.
It’s sucky to tell people they’ll *never* change.
Jennifer is on a weird powertrip that’s not gonna go well for her social life, but that doesn’t mean she hasn’t already changed (hey she’s what, two months sober? That’s amazing!) and she’s trying to change. And if the ways she’s trying to change aren’t working out, she’ll find other ways to change, it will just take a while. Nobody is set in stone at 20.
I don’t expect Alice to be her friend, but she could say “you haven’t changed enough” instead of “you never will”.
while you’re not wrong plz don’t forget that Alice is also 20 (read: still young but doesn’t quite realize it)
Looking at the evidence Alice has available, Billie hasn’t changed and keeps acting the exact same way she always has. There’s no reason for her to think otherwise.
well, not like she was there to observe the change but i wouldn’t be surprised if alice has also changed a lot to where the current versions of themselves still have nothing in common with each other
On a moral level I disagree with Alice and find her words very bad
But on a narrative level, very happy
To be fair, it’s only cause of the rest of the strip that I’m happy, good narrative turn
At least Billifer didn’t keep shouting “GO GOLDEN DRAGONS” this time, that’s an improvement right?
For me, the difference between Rachel’s “people never change” and Alice’s “Billie, you’ll never change” is that it’s specific. Alice likely does think PEOPLE can change, but doesn’t believe Billie is one of them. And I think the thing about Billie is she obviously can change, but she also backslides. Aside from the drinking and the suicide pact of last semester, she also made great steps to changing from being obsessed with her image and popularity. But, after her break up with Ruth, she regressed and all that change was undone. Now she’s friends with Raidah and all she cares about is her image. I think a big part of her dating Asher (other than him being attractive and convenient) was a big image thing for her. To make her look functional and “normal” and “straight”.
Change is hard especially because you have to stick with it. Billie CAN change… Jennifer can change too. They just need to keep with it as best they can.
Also even if jen did change for the better and most ppl agree, doens’t mean alice would still ahve to give her another chance
That’s also true!
Absolutely. If anything, I think she shouldn’t. The stuff that happened between them isn’t exactly something you can laugh about twenty years later.
ehhhh. HAS she though? jennifer seems pretty much the same, if not slightly worse, than when the comic started!
And as we all know, change is a linear path.
maybe ‘baby steps’ compared to joyce’s change, but nothing that’d be impressive to alice i imagine, idk if she’s really done with any kinda ‘redemption arc’ or so, ppl still aren’t trusting asher after all
Tho i guess even if some ppl aren’t on the worse terms, it’s kinda hard not to see ppl as who they were as you knew them, like the title of the current arc lol
I feel like I’m beating a dead horse here, but she’s not drinking. That doesn’t fix all her issues, but it’s far better than she was doing at the start of the comic.
And given that the DUI crash and her reaction to it were key to Alice deciding to ghost her, I think that’ll matter to Alice as well.
she’s entertaining joyce’s ideas and not drinking as far as we know
she still has a long way to go, like not getting pissed off and leaving a few minutes into dealing with other people’s ideas
could stand to ease off the whole “nerd vs popular” thing as well
if I was Billie I’d have just started weeping in front of her, collapse on the floor and pass out.
Honestly, that might have worked.
I know this comic and the earlier one are two incidents spaced months apart but if Alice regularly interacts with Jennifer this way, like, frequently, it’d constitute emotional abuse.