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Part of me wants to be defensive of Joe here, but she knew him for years in a very… proto- state. It’s going to take time for her to get to see his growth.
I think she sees his growth somewhat, but it’s also gonna take time for her to trust it, not to mention unlearn associating him with the kinds of ick that he used to give her. Which like. Valid.
I do think that, yeah, she has noticed changes, but yeah, it’s going to take time and consistency for her to become a believer. She also has just not seen as much as some of the others have with him, like Dina and Becky, Joyce obviously, Danny, and to an extent Sal and probably Amber.
It’s not, but Dorothy is very low on the list of the cast who would want to have a grudge over incomplete or flawed information. That’s anathema to Dorothy.
She also just independently has a prickly relationship with Joe. If this was about his relationship to someone other than Joyce she’d probably be more aggressive about his worse qualities, not less.
I vaguely recall Sarah warned Joyce that Dorothy would lose faith in her if she learned she tried to “fix” him while they dated. Is this shoe about to drop?
There’s a non-zero chance Ethan and Jocelyn talk still, though I dunno if Ethan just keeps abreast of her writing. At the very least, yeah, they are acquainted and in a way that’d likely stick with both of them, not the least of which reason being they had what seemed to be mutual attraction.
The Do List was outed in early October (specifically Book 7 Chapter 4, aptly titled “The Do List”). It is currently the end of January, so roughly 4 months
That’s not a retcon, a retcon would be pretending he was always the way he is now. Which isn’t happening here just because Dotty is choosing her words diplomatically. It’s painfully obvious she’s trying her best to not spill the truth without outright lying.
Nah, he was pretty bad (and Dorothy knew him during that time) and now he’s trying to be good (and mostly succeeding), and that’s almost entirely due to Joyce.
Retconning is not when a character does not mention the prior shitty behavior of somebody who is trying to better himself for somebody else as not to discredit him in front of said person’s sibling. That’s called being tactful, nothing has changed about the way Joe was prior, it was just not mentioned.
It is indeed true that other people can’t change what you think, even if you’re wrong. That you feel the need to say that is worrying though, do you often think about controlling the thoughts of others?
The fucked up thing is, I actually put in the tiniest amount of effort to make it read as a joke this time. “I’m gonna tell everyone. ” Like who the hell is everyone? I only post anything here and on Nextdoor, so it’s not like I have a following. But it’s apparently Very Important™ not to use a TV Tropes word incorrectly.
Many do frequently misused retcons as a cheap way to complain about literally anything they don’t like in a story and they are very annoying, so I guess it’s understandable in some way.
Exactly this, I thought it was a little too absurd of a complaint to be a genuine one, but Poe’s Law is Poe’s Law for a reason, fandom especially I’ve found there’s no depths to what agenda people will genuinely push if they REALLY hate a character.
I’m loathe to admit it but there’s plenty of people with incredibly shitty attitudes towards women who are intelligent enough to do very complicated computer science.
I think specifically that Mr Dumbest-Guy-On-The-Football-Team isn’t.
I always thought Danny leaked the list based on a few of his reactions during that storyline.
In any case I have an extremely hard time seeing any reason for the Incelerator to be involved in it. The leaking was less the point than the list itself.
Yes! I always thought this as well! It’s the theory that makes the most sense. He had the skills, easiest access to the list, never approved of the list or Joe’s misogyny especially around the content of the list like Joe immediately ranking Dorothy as soon as they broke up. Plus Danny visually panics when Rachel mentions the list is like a cheat sheet for sex offenders and there’s an active rapist on campus. Danny was also the first person there when the list leaked, hanging out with Joe all day to support his buddy like he expected the hit. The one suggesting free donuts for women day. (Which Joe should do every semester.)
It doesn’t matter anymore if it ever did, but I too think it was Danny. We’ll likely never find out who it was,
Also just looked back and the very first strip of “The Do List” storyline shows Danny using a phone. As if possible leaking a Do List at that very moment.
Now I’m not saying that proves anything or that it was Willis’ intent, but immediately showing the culprit in the act at the start in a manner no one would think twice about, would be incredibly clever and cheeky.
I think it’s either Danny or nobody “leaked” it so much as Joe went around telling people the password or getting them to subscribe to his RSS feed and finally some guy went ‘Uh, this is gross and rude to a friend of mine, I’m gonna let her know to avoid this guy’ and then it snowballed from there.
Back in the 60s and 70s, a friend’s Dad, a theatre prof, used to give undergrads a cig (unlit) to put in their mouth and practice talking clearly. I think he switched to candy cigs in the 80s.
Joe has improved a lot since the beginning of DoA, which in-universe is only a few months, if I remember right. Unfortunately Dorothy hasn’t seen most of Joe’s improvement, but I’m glad she’s being diplomatic about him.
She was a lot more tolerant of his bullshit early on. I would expect there’s complicated reasons why she’s more critical now, including that she realizes she was too tolerant of his shitty behavior, but also not realizing she’s down bad for Joyce now.
He wasn’t targeting someone she cared about. Sure, he was generally harassing, but she didn’t see him with anyone who seemed to be taking him as anything more than she knew he was.
Remember, she completely missed that first date with Joyce
Jocelyne found the perfect person for asking that. She’s also very good in understanding people. So if Dorothy really has some romantic interest for Joyce, she will feel that and they could have a very important talk.
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Joyce also brings out the gay in everyone.
is her superpower ^^
In everyone, but herself. Step out of that closet, young lady, everything is going to be just fine.
Part of me wants to be defensive of Joe here, but she knew him for years in a very… proto- state. It’s going to take time for her to get to see his growth.
I think she sees his growth somewhat, but it’s also gonna take time for her to trust it, not to mention unlearn associating him with the kinds of ick that he used to give her. Which like. Valid.
I do think that, yeah, she has noticed changes, but yeah, it’s going to take time and consistency for her to become a believer. She also has just not seen as much as some of the others have with him, like Dina and Becky, Joyce obviously, Danny, and to an extent Sal and probably Amber.
Dorothy also may know Joe has grown but still hate him because she doesn’t like him.
It’s not a crime after all.
True, but Jocelyn doesn’t know Dorothy’s a biased source.
I wouldn’t even say she’s biased. She has good reason to distrust Joe.
“He used to be very vocal about objectifying women. But I think he got better.”
“When did he get better?”
“After he got caught…”
It’s not, but Dorothy is very low on the list of the cast who would want to have a grudge over incomplete or flawed information. That’s anathema to Dorothy.
Dorothy seeing Joe’s “growth” may or may not lead to interesting feelings from Joyce, and a hell of a NSFW comic.
There’s an AO3 on that.
Rule 34 means “of course there is”
Really should be “Law 34”.
No Joe/Dorothy that I could find (yet). Plenty of Joe/Joyce and Dorothy/Joyce, though.
Someone here wrote a very cute Joe/Joyce/Dorothy story a little while back.
That’s certainly fair. Joe himself is surprised to find that there’s more to him than his past behavior, and unable to fully believe it.
Plus Dorothy is slightly competitive about having Joyce. Yeah, Dotty is a bit biased.
For now.
Yeah I was gonna say. “For now.“
Ooo I hope this doesn’t lead to bad things
Look let my dreams of Bi Joe stay alive okay
I choose to read this in your avatar’s voice.
Asher wants to monopolize all the tall bad boys
They can still be, just interpret Dorothy’s Joyce brings out the best in them as bi-Joe.
B I Joe, A Real American Hero
This is very diplomatic of Dorothy.
Dorothy’s going to try to kiss Jocelyne before the weekend’s over.
It’s what she deserves.
Who is “she” in this sentence?
Dealer’s choice
Why make a distinction at all?
Right? both of them have had it rough and could use some sugar T_T <3
Because of the Ambiguous reference. But indeed it does not really matter.
Yes.
Ha, I totally forgot that could be her biggest concern about Joe.
Men are our of his purview so FAR!
Dottie’s totally not jelling. or anything.
She also just independently has a prickly relationship with Joe. If this was about his relationship to someone other than Joyce she’d probably be more aggressive about his worse qualities, not less.
Well, she’s more protective of Joyce than of most others, so maybe not.
oops accidentally reported
it’d be really nice if there was, like, a confirmation popup or something
It requires multiple flags to actually trip, so an accidental report isn’t really an issue
Ah, so Jocelyne remembers Ethan.
I vaguely recall Sarah warned Joyce that Dorothy would lose faith in her if she learned she tried to “fix” him while they dated. Is this shoe about to drop?
That shoe dropped a while ago, but it somewhat predictably wasn’t nearly as bad as Sarah projected it to be.
At least partly because it dropped after they broke up
To be pedantic it dropped while they were in the process of breaking up
There’s a non-zero chance Ethan and Jocelyn talk still, though I dunno if Ethan just keeps abreast of her writing. At the very least, yeah, they are acquainted and in a way that’d likely stick with both of them, not the least of which reason being they had what seemed to be mutual attraction.
Ethan has forgotten Joyce ever existed.
“We dated?”
“Huh? I’m sorry, I don’t remember that.”
“You can remember what Soundwave’s cassettes are named but not me.”
“Okay, that’s just common knowledge.”
My assumption would be that they were mutuals on social media but Ethan hadn’t really engaged with her after Mike died
How many months in-universe has it been since his ratings list got leaked? I feel like it hasn’t actually been that long
It was so last semester.
Plus Dorothy knew him through highschool, as he was Danny’s bestie. Dorothy is being super cool, given how many years she had to tolerate proto-Joe.
— that wasn’t really what you asked, I got a bit distracted
September¹ 2010, to January² 2024. So ¿fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiìiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive? months?
[1] coincidentally
[2] also coincidentally
The Do List was outed in early October (specifically Book 7 Chapter 4, aptly titled “The Do List”). It is currently the end of January, so roughly 4 months
Oct 9th and Jan 27th, “un”-officially. https://walkypedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dumbing_of_Age_Timeline
Dorothy: I hate Joe with the fiber of my being and am being supportive. None of this is influenced by jealousy toward Joyce.
Jocelyn: Uh huh.
This is reconning Joe’s original sleazy behavior and I’m going to tell everyone.
Retconning*. Retroactive continuity. Joe used to be sleaze, now he’s certified Good Boys™
What? This is very clearly Dorothy trying not to say bad things about Joe even though she really wants to.
Nope. Telling everyone.
That’s not a retcon, a retcon would be pretending he was always the way he is now. Which isn’t happening here just because Dotty is choosing her words diplomatically. It’s painfully obvious she’s trying her best to not spill the truth without outright lying.
It’s fine, actually.
Are you familiar with the term Character Development?
Are you familiar with oxygen?
Nah, he was pretty bad (and Dorothy knew him during that time) and now he’s trying to be good (and mostly succeeding), and that’s almost entirely due to Joyce.
Retconning is not when a character does not mention the prior shitty behavior of somebody who is trying to better himself for somebody else as not to discredit him in front of said person’s sibling. That’s called being tactful, nothing has changed about the way Joe was prior, it was just not mentioned.
No.
Just because you say no doesn’t mean you’re right. His behaviour isn’t being retconned
We will disagree, whether you agree to or not. You don’t have a choice.
It is indeed true that other people can’t change what you think, even if you’re wrong. That you feel the need to say that is worrying though, do you often think about controlling the thoughts of others?
Are the thoughts of others in the room with us right now? 🧐
My head is empty and my butt is thicc.
Probably better than the opposite, long term.
Correct, but that’s the only thing you’re correct about in this thread.
Yes.
Double yes
Poe’s law strikes again.
The fucked up thing is, I actually put in the tiniest amount of effort to make it read as a joke this time. “I’m gonna tell everyone.
” Like who the hell is everyone? I only post anything here and on Nextdoor, so it’s not like I have a following. But it’s apparently Very Important™ not to use a TV Tropes word incorrectly.
Many do frequently misused retcons as a cheap way to complain about literally anything they don’t like in a story and they are very annoying, so I guess it’s understandable in some way.
Like when Sal retconned Amazi-Girl getting hit by that truck during the car chase.
Exactly this, I thought it was a little too absurd of a complaint to be a genuine one, but Poe’s Law is Poe’s Law for a reason, fandom especially I’ve found there’s no depths to what agenda people will genuinely push if they REALLY hate a character.
Well, RIP to those weirdos, but I’m better than that.
If it makes you feel better, I laughed pretty hard at this whole thread.
We now have new candidates for who leaked the Do List like Incelerator.
Why would the Incelerator have leaked the list, in a way that women found out about in no less?
To share it with as many men as possible.
Those who shared the list certainly didn’t benefit any women by doing so. It just subjected a large number of them to humiliation.
I don’t know if he would have and I certainly don’t think he could have, he did not seem particularly bright
Calling an incel “not particularly bright” is exactly the same as commenting on the intelligence of cinder block.
You’ll get a smarter rebuttal out of the cinder block.
Cinder blocks are terrible with computers. They’re always bricking them.
I’m loathe to admit it but there’s plenty of people with incredibly shitty attitudes towards women who are intelligent enough to do very complicated computer science.
I think specifically that Mr Dumbest-Guy-On-The-Football-Team isn’t.
He could have if Joe had given him the password to the RSS feed, which he certainly would have if asked.
There’s no reason to think that Paul and Joe ever met though, so that’s unlikely.
I always thought Danny leaked the list based on a few of his reactions during that storyline.
In any case I have an extremely hard time seeing any reason for the Incelerator to be involved in it. The leaking was less the point than the list itself.
Other Rachel didn’t and gave reasons for why.
So I think its a mystery worth solving.
Yes! I always thought this as well! It’s the theory that makes the most sense. He had the skills, easiest access to the list, never approved of the list or Joe’s misogyny especially around the content of the list like Joe immediately ranking Dorothy as soon as they broke up. Plus Danny visually panics when Rachel mentions the list is like a cheat sheet for sex offenders and there’s an active rapist on campus. Danny was also the first person there when the list leaked, hanging out with Joe all day to support his buddy like he expected the hit. The one suggesting free donuts for women day. (Which Joe should do every semester.)
It doesn’t matter anymore if it ever did, but I too think it was Danny. We’ll likely never find out who it was,
Also just looked back and the very first strip of “The Do List” storyline shows Danny using a phone. As if possible leaking a Do List at that very moment.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/04-the-do-list/mornin/
Now I’m not saying that proves anything or that it was Willis’ intent, but immediately showing the culprit in the act at the start in a manner no one would think twice about, would be incredibly clever and cheeky.
I think it’s either Danny or nobody “leaked” it so much as Joe went around telling people the password or getting them to subscribe to his RSS feed and finally some guy went ‘Uh, this is gross and rude to a friend of mine, I’m gonna let her know to avoid this guy’ and then it snowballed from there.
I still think it was Raidah
I’m liking this theory now.
I thought the list leaked because the access control was rubbish.
Dorothy, that’s not a con.
How is she talking wih the straw in her mouth?
she made that statement before she started sippin XD
Straws are narrower than the typical human mouth. It’s not plugging her entire orifice, damn.
She is obviously talking through the straw like you would an empty roll of paper towels
Same way every 1950s movie character talks with a cigarette in his mouth?
Back in the 60s and 70s, a friend’s Dad, a theatre prof, used to give undergrads a cig (unlit) to put in their mouth and practice talking clearly. I think he switched to candy cigs in the 80s.
It took me way too long to work out why I couldn’t find any candy cigarettes any more…
Telepathy
If Joe were the Todd, this comic would be very different.
im having a problem
jocelyne faces are even more precious than joyce faces
h e l p
They’re good faces, Bront.
They are faces.
Those are called good problems
Dorothy is going to be diplomatic for Joyce’s sake.
If she was feeling mean she’d simply mention the Rep. DeSanto Sister Sex Tape.
Dorothy: [opens bookmark she’s been keeping for just this occasion] “Here, this is Joe.”
Jocelyne: Yup, I’ve seen that a dozen times (for research). So THAT’s Joe. Huh, I didn’t recognize him out of that context.
Oh Jocelyne, that’s silly.
He wasn’t closeted.
“Yeah, Joyce dating gay people. Seems to be a pattern.”
“Hopefully.”
“What?”
“What?”
Gotta admit, I chortled at this. Have a +1 internet point.
Re: panel 5
Well that’s not true. Not everyone can be charmed by her triangle grin and overwhelming optimism!
Joe has improved a lot since the beginning of DoA, which in-universe is only a few months, if I remember right. Unfortunately Dorothy hasn’t seen most of Joe’s improvement, but I’m glad she’s being diplomatic about him.
She was a lot more tolerant of his bullshit early on. I would expect there’s complicated reasons why she’s more critical now, including that she realizes she was too tolerant of his shitty behavior, but also not realizing she’s down bad for Joyce now.
He wasn’t targeting someone she cared about. Sure, he was generally harassing, but she didn’t see him with anyone who seemed to be taking him as anything more than she knew he was.
Remember, she completely missed that first date with Joyce
Joyce didn’t just date one gay guy, wasn’t that guy her first kiss (of a sort)?
I mean, Jacob was the real first one, but still.
A link, or some context, would be welcome. I’m not recalling this other guy.
Ethan.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/pepsi/
Ah, OK, I thought “didn’t just date one gay guy” meant «more than one gay guy», not «more than just date that one guy, she kissed him too.»
Thanks!
damn i didnt remember that at all but man the joyce-dorothy psychodrama has been going for a while huh
Isn’t Ethan bi not gay?
Wait no. I’m high and was thinking of DANNY not Ethan.
Jocelyne found the perfect person for asking that. She’s also very good in understanding people. So if Dorothy really has some romantic interest for Joyce, she will feel that and they could have a very important talk.
I like how Joe has grown and don’t want Joyce to have a sad break-up, but also I really need Dotty and Joyce to end up together.
*all the polyamorous DoA fans have joined the chat*
“We have a solution, but you might not like it…”
Dorothy trying really, really hard not to overstep her bounds. Keep trying, girl. You’ll manage eventually. Maybe even today.
Hey, where is our daily array of never-to-be-named incidental characters? Plenty of room for them in panel 1.
Dorothy is being very diplomatic, but not willing to lie. In her books the jury is still out on Joe being a ”good guy”.
Hey, anyone have a name of the strip or link where Jocelyn tries to share their name as a child and Hank/JoyceMom use it for their new baby girl?
It’s the first Patreon bonus strip for September 2015.
Thanks!
I’ve been trying to find that for hours.
well now I have something to look up. I wasn’t subscribed back then
“But you date *one* gay dude…!”
Asher, when his family finds out.
We told you Asher, if you date a dude make sure he’s bi not gay.
Yeah buddy that’s what I’m about