Yes, but perhaps therapy should come first. She needs to be honest about possibly being depressed, and then we can determine what she needs. But you’re right
You can’t obtain antidepressants without consulting a doctor or psychiatrist. Also, before considering marijuana as a treatment, be aware that if you’re under 26, it can potentially worsen depression or other underlying conditions. Always consult a doctor beforehand. Moreover, most generic SSRIs are available for under $10 without insurance in the US, which in some cases, can be cheaper than marijuana
Before folks give me flak, let me explain why I use the age cutoff of 26. Research indicates that the brain continues to develop until around this age, particularly the areas involved in decision-making and impulse control. I know not everyone under 26 who uses marijuana will experience psychosis or worsened depression, but studies show that the risk is significantly higher. I’m just pointing out the need to understand and mitigate potential risks, especially for younger people. This doesn’t mean marijuana is inherently super dangerous, nor am I saying to never smoke marijuana. I’m simply highlighting that it’s not completely harmless. If you’re under 26 and considering using marijuana, I strongly advise discussing the potential risks with a healthcare professional first.
I’m aware that brains continue to develop beyond 25. However, current evidence suggests that the more harmful effects of marijuana become less significant around the ages of 25 to 26, which is why I use that as my reference point.
That and neurodivergence also means that correlation between brain development and age is really diverse.
The way I see it, given as NDs our brain chemistry is often very different from that of a neuroypical, it’s kinda like being high all the time, is it not?
The point of taking cannabis or antidepressents is to get a high that’s more enjoyable/productive to the user’s desire.
Of course, safety is priority as always, check with doctor and always start with lower doses.
Um, about the “brain developing until age 26” (or 25 as it’s often stated), if only I wish the complex truth held up to that notion tossed around in popular brain science (-_-)
I have no comment on the idea young people shouldn’t smoke weed, because I agree.
But a study that concluded “oh, the prefrontal cortex does not appear to have a point at which it is ‘done’ developing, our data only goes to 25” being reported as “brains aren’t fully developed until over 25” is, actually, very misleading and not a good thing for people to think.
This is not without impact. We should not be treating 24 year olds as children, and we *definitely* should not be treating 24 year olds as children in the eyes of the law. (Not American but our cultures overlap enough for this to be relevant to both.)
Smoking is but one way to do it, edibles are a lot easier to use to get a controlled dose in my experience.
Young adults under 25 may find sustainable value in using cannabis if they are neurodivergent or have chronic pain resulting from inflammation or otherwise. Hell, I wouldn’t have been able to walk again if it weren’t for the stuff.
What iffs me is that despite the fact that literally ANY drug can be detrimental if you don’t use it with proper safety and precautions, cannabis specifically still seems to get the stink eye from folk who’d never give it to antidepressants and the like because the US government didn’t go out of their way to ban them for totally Non-Racist-Non-Political™ reasons
Hell, even if you’re over 26 you can experience psychosis if you have an underlying issue.
I’m bipolar and went psychotic at 36. I’d been using cannabis for 2 years at pretty high levels. I’m talking being work at home, vaping at least 6 times a day, every single day.
I’m bipolar.
I quit cannabis for over a year and relapsed due to grad school.
I’m medicated now so it probably won’t happen again, but I really should quit again.
But my usage is drastically different. I use 1-3 10mg gummies a day now.
Yeah I make it a point to use but one gummy a day or ideally even less. I take like a single 10 mg gummy and cut it into 8 pieces to take over a span of hours, I’ve found microdosing like this really effective in treating my conditions and limiting tolerance.
If you’re an absolute beginner at the stuff, i cannot emphasize enough how important it is to start with like a tenth of what yoir state considers a standard dose, also taking CBD along with THC for a more even high.
I had a therapist who was extremely anti-meds and after a month and a half with me, she gave me the number for a psych and told me I needed to get on something because I was obviously a quart low on serotonin and there was nothing more she could do for me.
Isn’t she afraid you’re not allowed to be president if you ever had therapy? Now that she doesn’t want to be president she might consider therapy, but the waitlists aren’t fun.
Also, considering her internalized ableism stemming from her desire to be as *presidential* as she could possibly be, I doubt she would risk telling them anything that could leave a potential paper trail.
I mean – after the mass kidnapping – they really all should be in therapy. And IU is reported to have a decent student counseling program… but then we wouldn’t have soap opera moments like this
Dorothy’s looking like she’s about to faceplant in the “jugs” (take off your glasses first), and have a good cry. And Joe has enough arms to hug them all.
I mean this is as romantic a statement as I have ever seen from Joyce. She’s not even actively trying to woo Dorothy, she just loves her and knows her. And that’s why it’s such a romantic sounding declaration imo.
**passionate hallway threesome occurs**
**Sal bursts from the room.**
Sal: “There! Got dicked before Joyce – wait, what the fuck? There’s no way ah’m lettin Joyce be in a threeway afore me!”
Danny: “I mean, it looks like she already is.”
Sal: “Quick! Who do you know that ya’d like ta have a threeway with?”
Danny: “Well….”
So strip away my conscience
Peel away my values
Rip off my compassion with your teeth
Pound away my morals
Spank off all my kindness, ooh!
Expose the dormant bongo that lies beneath
Anyway, good for Dorothy in having these talks. Much better than letting things spin around inside your head, pulling you down, and pretending everything is ok while you stop going to class.
I had already said it before, but the others helped Dorothy to be honest with herself and also to be honest with Joyce.
Because it seems that her biggest fear was Joyce’s reaction to the decision she made.
And let’s be honest, if Dorothy had continued with the enormous pressure in her head, she might have responded to Joyce in a way she might have regretted.
Dorothy: Would you love me if I was a SANDWORM?? A giant sandworm of ARRAKIS?! That I had knowingly joined myself to to follow the GOLDEN PATH as a TYRANT?!??!
Joyce: Yes! Even if it would be weird!
Joe: *taking notes* So Dorothy is the Kwisatz Haderach, and—
That’s an amazingly articulate and on point answer, for being put on the spot like that, first thing in the morning. In the hallway, in her underwear. Minutes after making second base for the first time ever in her life.
Thinking about it, there’s always been a certain duality of Joyce’s character, where she may repress a lot of her emotions, but the emotions she DOESN’T repress she can articulate EXTREMELY WELL, even while under immense stress. Right at this moment, she could probably answer Dorothy’s question clearly and authentically using nothing but carefully memorized Bible verses. If she wanted to, which she obviously doesn’t, for several reasons. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/neighbor-2/
Some combo of autism, masking, and trauma means we observe, observe, observe, even when we don’t say much about what we’re observing. Then the infodump / truthbomb hits and people are speechless as to how well we nailed the thing we went so long without saying.
Im glad Joyce is so supportive of Dotty. Also Dorothy’s parent are pretty supportive from what I have seen has she talked to them? It might help to remind her that her parents are supportive and that she can admit she is depressed so she can really get help.
I mean knee jerk reaction some of the parents in the stip are truly terrible people but I don’t think the Dorothy’s are.
They seem to be the only really nice parents in the entire comic, and it’s true, no one in this comic judges and condemns Dorothy for her decision.
But I have a feeling that in part, Dorothy feels like she’s failing her parents because of it, but I also seem to remember that she told her mother that she didn’t want a simple life (it sounded cruel, but she didn’t mean it with that kind of intention). ).
Yes, it’s time for Dorothy to also get help from Jeremiah and Deborah (those are the right names, right?)
Yeah, I think you’re right on this matter. Also, I don’t know their names. I live in fear of the comment section, worried that I’ll get a minor character’s name or an event related to that character or really any character wrong, or posting anything at all. Yet, I continue to post anyway.
That hits so hard and means so much on so many levels, and makes everything Joyce has done in regards to Dorothy come into crystal-clear focus, and also shined a pinpoint light on who and what Dorothy is at her core which she needed right now.
What Joyce is saying to Dorothy feels like it’s similar to something Dorothy said to Joyce. But here Joyce really groks it.
The fear of being someone completely different is used to repress doubts, for a lot of types of Christianity, and especially hers. But even though what was the central part of her identity changed, she’s still essentially the same.
The detail with Dorothy is that she self-imposed the role of Joyce’s protector, but now that she hears this clear response, she no longer knows what to say, there is still a long way to go, but I trust that Dorothy will have her moment to shine. She deserves it
I do agree with Joyce. Dorothy is a person of integrity who believes in the truth, and that’s going to be the same regardless of what life she chooses to pursue.
“You know, James, I just want you to know that if all that was left of you was your smile and your little finger, you’d still be more of a man than anyone I’ve ever met.” – Vesper Lynd, Casino Royale
And Dorothy needs to understand that unconditional is very much part of it.
Not President? Joyce loves and supports. Decided against Yale? Joyce loves and supports. Dropping to a B average (with a social life) instead of being an austere 4.0 student? Joyce loves and supports.
There’s nothing transactional about Joyce’s love and support, she loves Dorothy as a person, not a collection of ambitions and actions.
Why does it feel like Dorothy is about to make out with Joyce, then storm off saying, “Still love me?” while Joyce and Joe are flustered for very different reasons
It does seem like a dramatically appropriate time to express her dedication to the truth by revealing any previously repressed romantic feelings she might have towards Joyce.
If it happens, I’m personally expecting a more understated declaration more along the lines of simply saying “I think I’m in love with you”, but I’m definitely on the same page about the other shoe dropping here
“When I say ‘It’s you I like,’ I’m talking about that part of you that knows that life is far more than anything you can ever see or hear or touch. That deep part of you that allows you to stand for those things without which humankind cannot survive. Love that conquers hate, peace that rises triumphant over war, and justice that proves more powerful than greed.”
—Fred Rogers
Dorothy used armor piercing question Joyce answer with Armor-Piercing Response.
Dorothy seriously needs to take care of herself, she even loses arguments with Joyce about herself. I don’t see her as a future president
Joyce yet again displaying that even if she’s had a very long, very hard road of getting beaten by reality and hurt and broken and pieced back together, she’s still the heart of the comic because she can perceive people’s true selves and loves that part of them with every part of herself.
I’m still in the camp that Dorothy is ADHD, she’s just very smart and very good at masking, but there are cracks like how she has to micromanage her schedule or has to read a book twice to process what is written.
What Joyce is said textbook how many Autistics describe themselves culturally.
This could be her projecting her own issues, or her journey to atheism.
But it could be all the above, Joyce could be right.
YMMV but she seems way too organized, overorganized to be adhd.
Becoming President miught have been her hyperinterest, and it was was so large she never needed another. Or had to confront it was childish and actually an interest not a lifeplan.
Finding out you’re autistic, and finding out you’re queer are both existential crises.
Or at least I assume being autistic is an existential crisis for some people; I know bipolar is for me. Different conditions but finding out something big about yourself you didn’t know is an existential crisis.
An existential crisis is good for you long term. Short term it sucks. Long term it shows you that you need to understand yourself better or make lifestyle changes.
Not to lessen those things, but it seems to me this is more a general Existential crises, loss of identity, that might be fueled qnd driven by either of those things . unfaced; left to go on autopilot.
so less facing she is on the spectrum, more just letting her autism ( or other issues ) drive her mind into the blue yonder where nothing is real.
( Not that Autism is even necessary for that. But it might help; esp if unrecognized )
“I think everybody longs to be loved and longs to know that he or she is lovable. And, consequently, the greatest thing that we can do is to help somebody know that they’re loved and capable of loving.”
Is it time for that other secret Dorothy secret, the one she has’nt revealed on their previous night ?
The conflict between Dorothy beeing perceived as “Commitment to the truth above everything else” by a loved person for whom it is “everything they aspire to be” AND the shameful autodepreciation for hiding (even to herself ?) that Dorothy do love that person is so emotionnal and powerful.
I hope for a sudden confession from Dorothy and some comprehension from Joyce (and Joe ) that their mutual love does not have to be romantic to be important for both of them.
Joyce’s right. That is one of Dorothy’s biggest trait. That and a desire to help others. I think that might have what originally drew her to the idea of being president. If she still wants to go into politics she will have to learn to be a bit more selfish. If she still feels politics isn’t for her, then I think a career in journalism might suit her temperament.
Yale snatch squad assembles: Lothario on point. Looks exactly like the latest heartthrob in TeenCognito. Poindexter is the leader, with a scheme for every situation. Bluto is the muscle. He stays in the background until called on. Sidney Yus is the guide. Knows IU and the lay of the land. Together they help promising candidates transfer to Yale, where they will one day be Famous Yale Alumni!
Can we take a moment to bask at how good Willis is at facial expressions? So much is said in this strip without dialogue, or in parallel with the dialogue.
Dorothy: “What remains, then, that you love?
Joyce (looking back at 2nd panel): “…Y-your symmetrical chest freckles? The ones that make everyone think you’re a lieutenant?”
Dorothy looks sad as she stares at the shirt Joyce is wearing. Maybe it reminds her that she’s with Joe now and it’s too late for anything she hasn’t told her. Or maybe she really wants to strip that away.
Dorothy has built so much of her future around becoming president that she doesn’t realize it was like, 20% of her personality at best. She just cannot grasp the idea that she’s still Dorothy.
A good swing at trying to self destructively push her closest friend away, but blocked by Joyce already having gone through a high number of emotional crisis and a genuine view of her said bestie. We’ll see how she recovers from this play.
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Awe. 🥲
*plays “Hanezeve Caradhina” from Made in Abyss OST on hacked muzak*
it’s, like, the rain or something
The storm we all have to endure…
Someone get my girl some antidepressants
And not booze, that’s literally the opposite.
Yes, but perhaps therapy should come first. She needs to be honest about possibly being depressed, and then we can determine what she needs. But you’re right
some people need both medication and therapy, or find medicine that much more effective
Speaking from experience, therapy is useless if you’re too depressed to even accept the help.
You can’t obtain antidepressants without consulting a doctor or psychiatrist. Also, before considering marijuana as a treatment, be aware that if you’re under 26, it can potentially worsen depression or other underlying conditions. Always consult a doctor beforehand. Moreover, most generic SSRIs are available for under $10 without insurance in the US, which in some cases, can be cheaper than marijuana
Before folks give me flak, let me explain why I use the age cutoff of 26. Research indicates that the brain continues to develop until around this age, particularly the areas involved in decision-making and impulse control. I know not everyone under 26 who uses marijuana will experience psychosis or worsened depression, but studies show that the risk is significantly higher. I’m just pointing out the need to understand and mitigate potential risks, especially for younger people. This doesn’t mean marijuana is inherently super dangerous, nor am I saying to never smoke marijuana. I’m simply highlighting that it’s not completely harmless. If you’re under 26 and considering using marijuana, I strongly advise discussing the potential risks with a healthcare professional first.
In terms of using it to treat depression
For recreational use, consider moderation.
For the record that study showed that brains continue developing through age 25… and didn’t study any brains older than that.
We have plenty of evidence to believe they likely never stop developing.
I’m aware that brains continue to develop beyond 25. However, current evidence suggests that the more harmful effects of marijuana become less significant around the ages of 25 to 26, which is why I use that as my reference point.
Does it suggest that because the study stopped sampling after 25? Because apparently that’s been a problem before
That and neurodivergence also means that correlation between brain development and age is really diverse.
The way I see it, given as NDs our brain chemistry is often very different from that of a neuroypical, it’s kinda like being high all the time, is it not?
The point of taking cannabis or antidepressents is to get a high that’s more enjoyable/productive to the user’s desire.
Of course, safety is priority as always, check with doctor and always start with lower doses.
“”25 years old. Not great, not terrible.”
Um, about the “brain developing until age 26” (or 25 as it’s often stated), if only I wish the complex truth held up to that notion tossed around in popular brain science (-_-)
https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html
I have no comment on the idea young people shouldn’t smoke weed, because I agree.
But a study that concluded “oh, the prefrontal cortex does not appear to have a point at which it is ‘done’ developing, our data only goes to 25” being reported as “brains aren’t fully developed until over 25” is, actually, very misleading and not a good thing for people to think.
This is not without impact. We should not be treating 24 year olds as children, and we *definitely* should not be treating 24 year olds as children in the eyes of the law. (Not American but our cultures overlap enough for this to be relevant to both.)
Smoking is but one way to do it, edibles are a lot easier to use to get a controlled dose in my experience.
Young adults under 25 may find sustainable value in using cannabis if they are neurodivergent or have chronic pain resulting from inflammation or otherwise. Hell, I wouldn’t have been able to walk again if it weren’t for the stuff.
What iffs me is that despite the fact that literally ANY drug can be detrimental if you don’t use it with proper safety and precautions, cannabis specifically still seems to get the stink eye from folk who’d never give it to antidepressants and the like because the US government didn’t go out of their way to ban them for totally Non-Racist-Non-Political™ reasons
Hell, even if you’re over 26 you can experience psychosis if you have an underlying issue.
I’m bipolar and went psychotic at 36. I’d been using cannabis for 2 years at pretty high levels. I’m talking being work at home, vaping at least 6 times a day, every single day.
I’m bipolar.
I quit cannabis for over a year and relapsed due to grad school.
I’m medicated now so it probably won’t happen again, but I really should quit again.
But my usage is drastically different. I use 1-3 10mg gummies a day now.
Yeah I make it a point to use but one gummy a day or ideally even less. I take like a single 10 mg gummy and cut it into 8 pieces to take over a span of hours, I’ve found microdosing like this really effective in treating my conditions and limiting tolerance.
If you’re an absolute beginner at the stuff, i cannot emphasize enough how important it is to start with like a tenth of what yoir state considers a standard dose, also taking CBD along with THC for a more even high.
what
the actual
fuck
I’m not seeing what’s fucked up? SSRIs being affordable is a good thing.
I’m not sure why you’re offended that generic prescription anti depressants are cheaper then marijuana even without a prescription.
Cannabis can seriously worsen or kick of depression/psychosis after 30 as well. Just stay away from the stuff, if this might be an issue.
I had a therapist who was extremely anti-meds and after a month and a half with me, she gave me the number for a psych and told me I needed to get on something because I was obviously a quart low on serotonin and there was nothing more she could do for me.
Dorothy is in therapy, if I recall correctly
Isn’t she afraid you’re not allowed to be president if you ever had therapy? Now that she doesn’t want to be president she might consider therapy, but the waitlists aren’t fun.
They’re technically a councilor, not a therapist.
Also, considering her internalized ableism stemming from her desire to be as *presidential* as she could possibly be, I doubt she would risk telling them anything that could leave a potential paper trail.
She is in therapy. She’s just leaving stuff out. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/03-joementum/inwithyou/
Here in fact is her visiting her therapist all the way back in October (the trauma referenced here was the gutting-Ryan incident, this was before the OTHER traumas): https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/04-the-do-list/shrink/
Thanks!
In therapy that sucks
Because by her own admission she is not fully participating.
She’s lying (by omission) to her therapist to spare her future self’s image.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/inwithyou/
I mean – after the mass kidnapping – they really all should be in therapy. And IU is reported to have a decent student counseling program… but then we wouldn’t have soap opera moments like this
Hoisted by her own petard
Just threesome already! Right here in the hall!
Dorothy’s looking like she’s about to faceplant in the “jugs” (take off your glasses first), and have a good cry. And Joe has enough arms to hug them all.
I mean this is as romantic a statement as I have ever seen from Joyce. She’s not even actively trying to woo Dorothy, she just loves her and knows her. And that’s why it’s such a romantic sounding declaration imo.
Yup: https://www.dumbingofage.com/sharedmoment/
I truly wish!!
(then again, through my Literature, I’m sure everyone knows this lmao)
Honestly it would be the funniest thing to do right after being kicked out of the room by Sal
**passionate hallway threesome occurs**
**Sal bursts from the room.**
Sal: “There! Got dicked before Joyce – wait, what the fuck? There’s no way ah’m lettin Joyce be in a threeway afore me!”
Danny: “I mean, it looks like she already is.”
Sal: “Quick! Who do you know that ya’d like ta have a threeway with?”
Danny: “Well….”
…oh no.
Oh no I’m gonna end up writing a sequel.
Oh yes!
Would you love me if I was a Wormothy?
Awww.
So strip away my conscience
Peel away my values
Rip off my compassion with your teeth
Pound away my morals
Spank off all my kindness, ooh!
Expose the dormant bongo that lies beneath
So who exactly is Nathanial in this scenario?
Aww joyce
Good friendshipping, Joyce!!
I think the truth is, she still really really wants Walky to plow her.
Hugs all around, then?
Poor Joe really did not sign up to be part of this existential crisis.
Oh jeez, Dorothy is not in a good headspace right now; she looks defeated.
I’d come up with something more insightful but my headache is trying to kill me.
She’s in the lashing-out stage of depression.
Which, for me, lasted about a decade, so.
Good luck, Dorothy.
“Despite everything, you’re still Dorothy” “Dang it you still love me”
(hmm… blank… unlike his TCAF booth, I hope)
* Despite everything, it’s still
youDorothy.“Despite everything, you’re still Dorothy.”
“AM I?!”
Good point. What if Joyce stripped away everything that used to define her? She has changed quite a bit and yet Dorothy is still her friend.
As long as she still doesn’t like foods touching, she’s still Joyce.
She loses that, her whole identity unravels.
Anyway, good for Dorothy in having these talks. Much better than letting things spin around inside your head, pulling you down, and pretending everything is ok while you stop going to class.
I had already said it before, but the others helped Dorothy to be honest with herself and also to be honest with Joyce.
Because it seems that her biggest fear was Joyce’s reaction to the decision she made.
And let’s be honest, if Dorothy had continued with the enormous pressure in her head, she might have responded to Joyce in a way she might have regretted.
“I actually really love lying!”
Dorothy: Would you love me if I was a SANDWORM?? A giant sandworm of ARRAKIS?! That I had knowingly joined myself to to follow the GOLDEN PATH as a TYRANT?!??!
Joyce: Yes! Even if it would be weird!
Joe: *taking notes* So Dorothy is the Kwisatz Haderach, and—
But Joyce is the one with the blue eyes.
The Kwisatz Hadersch isn’t the worm guy though! His son is!
call me Kevin J Anderson how I be mixing my Dune references
That’s an amazingly articulate and on point answer, for being put on the spot like that, first thing in the morning. In the hallway, in her underwear. Minutes after making second base for the first time ever in her life.
Huh. Joyce is having a morning.
Probably whole a bit hungover
Thinking about it, there’s always been a certain duality of Joyce’s character, where she may repress a lot of her emotions, but the emotions she DOESN’T repress she can articulate EXTREMELY WELL, even while under immense stress. Right at this moment, she could probably answer Dorothy’s question clearly and authentically using nothing but carefully memorized Bible verses. If she wanted to, which she obviously doesn’t, for several reasons.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/neighbor-2/
Wow.
Some combo of autism, masking, and trauma means we observe, observe, observe, even when we don’t say much about what we’re observing. Then the infodump / truthbomb hits and people are speechless as to how well we nailed the thing we went so long without saying.
Joyce just nailed Dorothy!
Dorothy wishes.
Not just Dorothy.
Also, “worst possible thing to say” followed immediately by “best possible thing to say” and once again I am in awe. xD
It totally is…
And then it’s accidentally the worst.
Im glad Joyce is so supportive of Dotty. Also Dorothy’s parent are pretty supportive from what I have seen has she talked to them? It might help to remind her that her parents are supportive and that she can admit she is depressed so she can really get help.
I mean knee jerk reaction some of the parents in the stip are truly terrible people but I don’t think the Dorothy’s are.
They seem to be the only really nice parents in the entire comic, and it’s true, no one in this comic judges and condemns Dorothy for her decision.
But I have a feeling that in part, Dorothy feels like she’s failing her parents because of it, but I also seem to remember that she told her mother that she didn’t want a simple life (it sounded cruel, but she didn’t mean it with that kind of intention). ).
Yes, it’s time for Dorothy to also get help from Jeremiah and Deborah (those are the right names, right?)
Yeah, I think you’re right on this matter. Also, I don’t know their names. I live in fear of the comment section, worried that I’ll get a minor character’s name or an event related to that character or really any character wrong, or posting anything at all. Yet, I continue to post anyway.
Hey, Amber’s mom is pretty nice as well!
Unless you mean only nice set of parents in which case, good point
True, I had forgotten that nice lady.
Of course, if we refer to the good set of parents, Dorothy’s parents are precisely that.
Dina’s parents seem completely supportive too.
Dorothy needs a hug and a good cry.
That’s true.
Crying is not weakness.
It is purging the pain that exists, dehydrating the fear that exists, it is raining sadness to be happy.
“Well what if I strip away THIS?”
*Removes vest*
“Or THIS?”
*pants*
“OR OR OR”
*angry, fumbly unbuttoning*
you beat me to it
“Your commitment to the truth no matter the cost”
OH BOY, IS IT TIME FOR HER TO DROP THE YALE BOMB?!
She did that last night.
Jesus and I thought Joe telling Joyce he loves her intensity was the most emotion DOA would ever inspire in me
Cue Dorothy’s tears.
Joyce with the word anvil that Dorothy really needed to be hit by.
I love the vividness of this description.
I feel for Dorothy. I really do.
Needing your BEST FRIEND to say that she DOESN’T LOVE YOU in order to maintain your worldview.
She needs help.
That hits so hard and means so much on so many levels, and makes everything Joyce has done in regards to Dorothy come into crystal-clear focus, and also shined a pinpoint light on who and what Dorothy is at her core which she needed right now.
Joyce really has a way with words.
joyce is a very good friend of dorothy
I salute you.
As do I.
What Joyce is saying to Dorothy feels like it’s similar to something Dorothy said to Joyce. But here Joyce really groks it.
The fear of being someone completely different is used to repress doubts, for a lot of types of Christianity, and especially hers. But even though what was the central part of her identity changed, she’s still essentially the same.
The detail with Dorothy is that she self-imposed the role of Joyce’s protector, but now that she hears this clear response, she no longer knows what to say, there is still a long way to go, but I trust that Dorothy will have her moment to shine. She deserves it
I do agree with Joyce. Dorothy is a person of integrity who believes in the truth, and that’s going to be the same regardless of what life she chooses to pursue.
“You know, James, I just want you to know that if all that was left of you was your smile and your little finger, you’d still be more of a man than anyone I’ve ever met.” – Vesper Lynd, Casino Royale
Is it weird that this sounds like flirting to me?
It’s always nice to see Joyce’s admiration and unconditional support of Dorothy. I think she needs it.
And Dorothy needs to understand that unconditional is very much part of it.
Not President? Joyce loves and supports. Decided against Yale? Joyce loves and supports. Dropping to a B average (with a social life) instead of being an austere 4.0 student? Joyce loves and supports.
There’s nothing transactional about Joyce’s love and support, she loves Dorothy as a person, not a collection of ambitions and actions.
Very well put.
Problem is, Dorothy can’t grasp that unconditionality because she only loves herself as a collection of ambitions and actions.
Yeah. Dorothy, currently, sees it as WRONG that it’s okay to accept her.
someone needs to choke on some cocksuredness
Why does it feel like Dorothy is about to make out with Joyce, then storm off saying, “Still love me?” while Joyce and Joe are flustered for very different reasons
It does seem like a dramatically appropriate time to express her dedication to the truth by revealing any previously repressed romantic feelings she might have towards Joyce.
If it happens, I’m personally expecting a more understated declaration more along the lines of simply saying “I think I’m in love with you”, but I’m definitely on the same page about the other shoe dropping here
“When I say ‘It’s you I like,’ I’m talking about that part of you that knows that life is far more than anything you can ever see or hear or touch. That deep part of you that allows you to stand for those things without which humankind cannot survive. Love that conquers hate, peace that rises triumphant over war, and justice that proves more powerful than greed.”
—Fred Rogers
Dorothy’s mental health and confidence are at an all-time high.
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what is this, a beam struggle? XD
Warning! Cat-like typing detected!
Dorothy, please get therapy. And maybe some philosophy lessons.
Interesting, it seems like philosophy is something that possibly helps Dorothy a little more.
Or at least stop omitting things for your therapist for fear it will look bad on a future presidential record.
I for one suggest more kareoke
Dorothy used armor piercing question Joyce answer with Armor-Piercing Response.
Dorothy seriously needs to take care of herself, she even loses arguments with Joyce about herself. I don’t see her as a future president
Well, neither does she.
Dotty triggered the Active Defence System XD
Joyce wouldn’t know anything about that or anything…
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/pit/
daaang
Joyce yet again displaying that even if she’s had a very long, very hard road of getting beaten by reality and hurt and broken and pieced back together, she’s still the heart of the comic because she can perceive people’s true selves and loves that part of them with every part of herself.
It’s been a long road, getting from there to here.
Dorothy: S-so what you’re saying is, we both want to throw it all away, we’re both poison! We can touch each oth—
Ruth: *RIDER KICKS DOROTHY IN THE JAW* OH NO YOU DON’T
Holy shit that’s beautiful. Just genuine as fuck.
Okay.
Alright.
…
Dang, Joyce *rules*.
That’s what I thought. 2x
Then I reread it and realized she’s encouraging Dorothys existential crisis.
Because it’s one she needs to have, so she can get through it.
Exactly
^ those two clauses arent dependant on each other.
JOyce is Praising the part of Dorothy that is the problem: unrealistic Obsessive ccompulsive ambition.
Accelerationsism is never the answer.
This is (one way) people end up in madhouses.
Its entirely possible to grow up a little without a breakdown.
Options 1: this throws Dorothy back into her existential crisis
Option 2: Dorothy wonders if she’s bisexual and Autistic, goes to see Dina
I’m still in the camp that Dorothy is ADHD, she’s just very smart and very good at masking, but there are cracks like how she has to micromanage her schedule or has to read a book twice to process what is written.
What Joyce is said textbook how many Autistics describe themselves culturally.
This could be her projecting her own issues, or her journey to atheism.
But it could be all the above, Joyce could be right.
YMMV but she seems way too organized, overorganized to be adhd.
Becoming President miught have been her hyperinterest, and it was was so large she never needed another. Or had to confront it was childish and actually an interest not a lifeplan.
Finding out you’re autistic, and finding out you’re queer are both existential crises.
Or at least I assume being autistic is an existential crisis for some people; I know bipolar is for me. Different conditions but finding out something big about yourself you didn’t know is an existential crisis.
An existential crisis is good for you long term. Short term it sucks. Long term it shows you that you need to understand yourself better or make lifestyle changes.
Not to lessen those things, but it seems to me this is more a general Existential crises, loss of identity, that might be fueled qnd driven by either of those things . unfaced; left to go on autopilot.
so less facing she is on the spectrum, more just letting her autism ( or other issues ) drive her mind into the blue yonder where nothing is real.
( Not that Autism is even necessary for that. But it might help; esp if unrecognized )
Fuckaduck, Joyce had that on speeddial. Just, on tap, straight off the dome.
Also, look at her speaking unconditional love with her mother’s chin. Breaking Generational Cycles Joyce
Dotty was not expecting that
I’m sorry Dorothy but you have inherent value and Joyce ain’t letting you forget that
Bullseye.
https://xkcd.com/608/
“I think everybody longs to be loved and longs to know that he or she is lovable. And, consequently, the greatest thing that we can do is to help somebody know that they’re loved and capable of loving.”
Fred Rogers
Wow, Joyce has grown quite a lot.
Is it time for that other secret Dorothy secret, the one she has’nt revealed on their previous night ?
The conflict between Dorothy beeing perceived as “Commitment to the truth above everything else” by a loved person for whom it is “everything they aspire to be” AND the shameful autodepreciation for hiding (even to herself ?) that Dorothy do love that person is so emotionnal and powerful.
I hope for a sudden confession from Dorothy and some comprehension from Joyce (and Joe ) that their mutual love does not have to be romantic to be important for both of them.
which one?
‘I am now an autism, destroyer of selves’
or ‘I am now a gay, destroyer of Hetereosexualism’
Maybe “judaism was the answer all along, lets convert together. i hear these a baths n stuff “
Yeah well, what if I was a WORM?
Then I’d walk with rhythm to attract you.
That’s entirely yuri. It had to be said. She’s even got a floral shirt – that’s not cherry blossoms, but close enough.
What does Faz’s mom have to do with this arc?
I’ll explain it with this chart…
I think they meant yuri as in the manga genre featuring girl love ^^
Mike could answer that question for a nickel
Joyce’s right. That is one of Dorothy’s biggest trait. That and a desire to help others. I think that might have what originally drew her to the idea of being president. If she still wants to go into politics she will have to learn to be a bit more selfish. If she still feels politics isn’t for her, then I think a career in journalism might suit her temperament.
She’d be SO GOOD at journalism. Yes.
Did she seriouslty “would you still love me if I was a worm” at Joyce
“Love is not love, which alters when it alteration finds.”
Panel 5 [SFX: a tinkling sound of something shattering]
Just play the first 3 seconds of You May Be Right by Billy Joel.
Dang, Dorothy built her entire identity and sense of self-worth on being the overachiever, huh.
“I will go to Yale and be president and solve everyone’s problems” isn’t a healthy foundation, or even a load-bearing wall.
Yale snatch squad assembles: Lothario on point. Looks exactly like the latest heartthrob in TeenCognito. Poindexter is the leader, with a scheme for every situation. Bluto is the muscle. He stays in the background until called on. Sidney Yus is the guide. Knows IU and the lay of the land. Together they help promising candidates transfer to Yale, where they will one day be Famous Yale Alumni!
How’d that go for you, Dorothy?
Not the way you thought, huh?
Can we take a moment to bask at how good Willis is at facial expressions? So much is said in this strip without dialogue, or in parallel with the dialogue.
Joyce, you said a good.
Dorothy: “What remains, then, that you love?
Joyce (looking back at 2nd panel): “…Y-your symmetrical chest freckles? The ones that make everyone think you’re a lieutenant?”
man, fuck ambition anyway
“Data, don’t you get it? I’m just a human now!!”
“Well, Q, I’ve aspired to be that all my life. Way to thow it in my face, you 1%er.”
Dorothy looks sad as she stares at the shirt Joyce is wearing. Maybe it reminds her that she’s with Joe now and it’s too late for anything she hasn’t told her. Or maybe she really wants to strip that away.
Dorothy has built so much of her future around becoming president that she doesn’t realize it was like, 20% of her personality at best. She just cannot grasp the idea that she’s still Dorothy.
And she’s been taking “you’re still you” to mean “you’re still held to the impossibly high standards you set for yourself” this whole time.
JFSC just @ me next time Willis.
A good swing at trying to self destructively push her closest friend away, but blocked by Joyce already having gone through a high number of emotional crisis and a genuine view of her said bestie. We’ll see how she recovers from this play.