Translation:
Panel 1: Sometimes people change aspects of their identity – they discover more about themselves or realize they are a whole different thing than what they were.
Panel 2: Becky refuses to consider change because Lesbian for life yo. Makes off-hand suicide joke.
Panel 3: Jennifer makes a “my bisexuality was just a phase” joke. Ruth disapproves.
Panel 4: Becky realises she just accidentally made a suicide joke and feels guilty cause her mom did the suicide.
Panel 5: Jen calls Ruth a sad sack. Ruth doesn’t disagree, but suggests adding additional adjectives.
She might also feel a bit guilty because Ruth and Jennifer had suicide ideations last semester, tying the panels with them into Becky’s feelings about suicide and her mom.
My only quibble with this is that I think Becky didn’t actually realize she was alluding suicide until she remembered who she was in the room with and realized the implications of the phrase “I’d rather die.” It’s the sort of thing that people say offhandedly a lot without really meaning its full implications.
I think it’s closer to biphobia, she’s on record as saying she doesn’t believe it’s a real thing and that it’s just a phase people go through and I’m not sure if she’s ever recanted that stance
She actually didn’t seem that bothered by Asher kissing Ethan even when he told her point blank. In fact it got her temporarily interested in him again. I think she just has self loathing and regular loathing for her an Ruth that can only express itself by adamantly denying her attraction. Saying it was just a phase makes the relationship less real. Although Jen does need to rectify her past biphobic denialism.
Yeah. Her internalized biphobia is directly protecting her from seeing Asher being interested in someone else for what it is, which is that it is what it literally is. She also has to double down on her internalized biphobia, to cope with losing Ruth. Jennifer is an all-time master at denial and self-deception, so none of this is out of character for her.
I think her homo/biphobia is almost entirely internalized. She’s never seemed to have a problem with anyone else being gay or bi, just with herself.
It doesn’t fit the image she wants, which is that’s she’s normal.
I think this is the first hard evidence that she’s reverted to this attitude since the time skip? There were a couple earlier hints, but not this solid.
Thank you so much!
I was taking it to mean Becky would never change anything about herself, then apologized to her Mom, and I’m wondering what not changing herself had to do with her Mom D:
Reading Comprehension, yo.
I vaguely recall theories that Becky’s mom wasn’t straight and that it contributed to her committing suicide.
If Becky suspects that, then saying “I’d rather die than [accept my identity is different than I thought it was]” would feel like even more of a betrayal to her mom.
We don’t even know if she WAS miserable with Toedad. I mean, it is a fair bet, but maybe they were happy with each other and she just had untreated depression or a chemical unbalance. We don’t know because she has, so far, been a non-character and more of a literary device than anythin
I initially read panel one more as “because I don’t feel that way and won’t ever change the idea that fluid identities exist is bunk” because I have heard that from people a few times. I was so focused on that that I missed the “I’d rather die” part completely and was flummoxed by panel 4.
(Sometimes its really good to read through the comments and get other takes on panels)
Huh. I’ve never read “i’d rather die than X” as a suicide thing. Not directly anyway.
I’ve always understood it as, to use Becky as an example: A guy puts a gun to her head and demands she stops being a lesbian or she’ll shoot. But she says “Do it you pussy!” rather than give in. Which I guess could be called suicidal, since she’s choosing murder, but … ehhh…..
… Which isn’t that far removed from her actual life experience, honestly.
it’ll def leading to her being a ‘sad drunk’ if not breaking down, assuming amber/amazigirl isn’t stopping it or just both spiralling into her own separate breakdown
Later on everyone will be sat around the XX bottle drinking and talking about how this ‘keg party’ is a defining college experience, Joe will wince everytime.
Jennifer will strole up to the door with a keg and be like, “hey don’t feel like drinking alone, can I join?” She won’t even know about the keg party idea, it’s just her sad Jilly chapter keg.
She then proceeds to get so blitzed that Billy steps out of her like Clark Kent in Superman 3 to help her confront her hang ups over Ruth, her sexuality and her narcissism. Billy and Jennifer make out inside an imaginary trash compactor and break out of it together.
But if you’re waiting for the moment Jennifer acknowledges that she is unequivocally bi, you’re underestimating how long internalized bigotries can compel one to equivocate.
Ah, and so through the foil we see the contrast. Joyce is compelled to change if only to seperate herself from her previously established role as “naive weird Christian girl”. Jennifer on the other hand feels no such analoguous need, instead welcoming the notion that her status as alpha bongo in high school automatically somehow transfers over to college as long as she keeps acting the part.
Jennifer is … not an especially great or healthy individual, so I would not put internalizing biphobia past her. However, given that she has also changed her name, friend group, hair, and lovers it is difficult to say with certainty what she is referring to. Of course, all of those options are in some way psychologically tangled up with her relationship with Ruth – so she does seem to be saying being Ruth’s girlfriend was a mistake. However, given the class she is in, it is possible that she is just saying it was a mistake to be with Ruth, specifically, and not for her to like women in general.
As a dagger aimed at Ruth, it’s effective. But also, Jen/Billie has serious struggles with authenticity and identity. Being bisexual is no more real to her than being a head cheerleader, alpha bongo, It Girl, or suicide pact lesbian. Who she is always fluctuates to fit the room.
The author is autistic so pretty much every character reflects some component of autistic thinking. Billie’s character very clearly represents masking. She’s nerdy, with special interests that she cares deeply about, but conceals everything behind a.veneer of “coolness” and takes pride in her ability to be a social chameleon. She takes every opportunity to reinvent herself for social control because she doesn’t really understand how to be authentically herself in a natural unforced way. Every new costume she tries on is a pretense. This also comes paired with alcohol addiction because it is the only way she can lose the facade without being judged for doing so.
Tl;dr for: Your reading isn’t incorrect, just incomplete 🙂
I mean, she did say bisexuality only exists in porn. So. Whether or not she has internalized biphobia isn’t really a question. I also don’t thinl she’s taking the whole Asher/Ethan thing as seriously as if Ethan were a woman but idk that’s just conjecture. Personally I take this as denying her attraction to women to dunk on Ruth
When Jennifer attempted rapprochement with Ruth, she set her up on a date with a woman. They didn’t hit it off, and Ruth went home with a guy instead. Jennifer took it personally, possibly in more than one way (rejection of olive branch, and Ruth being clearly bisexual).
makes me wonder what other ‘exes’ were like, idk if she really had any other ‘girlfriends’, there was a panel with alice saying she ‘loved her’ but idk if it rly went as far as what ruth did.
altho her being a ‘disaster’ bi is def more of a trainwreck for the both of them than like the comedy kind lol
We’ve had a few more clues to the Alice/Billie thing, but nothing completely solid.
My read is that Alice was definitely dating Billie, but Billie would never accept that and was also regularly getting picked up by boys at drunken parties.
It’s pretty clear that her date with Ruth was her first real acknowledged “date” with a woman and that it recontextualized some things for her. Which Jennifer has now shoved back into a box as a “mistake” or a phase.
I’m saying this with full confidence as both a fellow Toronto Maple Leafs fan and MDD haver, no cap the Maple Leafs winning the cup would honest to god expel the depression from her body for like. A week tops.
I don’t think we have a specific disorder for her beyond depression sort of generally. Which is probably Major Depressive Disorder, but could also be Bipolar Disorder; especially BP type 2.
That was my grandmother’s diagnosis and Ruth reminds me a LOT of my grandma.
And not just because my Grandma’s name was also Ruth.
In particular, her anger and irritability are pretty classic hypomania though that also presents in euthymic (balanced) moods at elevated levels compared to folks who aren’t bipolar.
If she has bipolar, then it’s very possible that if she is on SSRIs that she is at a heightened risk of hypomania and/or mania.
It’s worth noting that a lot of folks clocked Joyce as autistic before her discussion with her doctor (which is still not a formal diagnosis btw). We now have two bipolar people in the comments saying Ruth seems bipolar to them.
well they can have an impropmtu proper sendoff/funeral, i can’t imagine the original funeral was a proper grieving process (since i imagine most ppl like joyce that attended was informed she died of cancer instead of the real raeson)
Extremely likely it was Known But Not Talked About(tm). Obviously Becky knew, we know Hank knew which presumably means Carol also knew, the priest would have known, anyone working at the hospital would’ve known, if there was any extended family they almost certainly knew. Even if it wasn’t gossiped about (which it almost certainly was, but in the “not talked about” sort of way), the neighborhood had the pieces of information to put it together.
On the other hand, neither Joe nor Walky seem like the type of dude who would think that they should prevent their two hot girlfriends from making out. Joe’s a recovering pervert who is also on a full “I Support Everything About My Girlfriend” kick, and Walky is obsessively laid-back about everything, randomly and unpredictably beholden to specific masculine stereo-types, and possibly doesn’t have enough of a spine to say “no” to Dorothy on this, when he already thinks she’s only with him because she’s settling.
I’m not sure if both of them would actually be cool with it, deep down, but I can also imagine them looking each other in the eye, then looking at their girlfriends, and then back at each other, and going “I mean, are we really gonna be the two guys who stop this from happening?!”
*Joe and Wally walk in on Joyce and Dorothy making out*
Walky: ..
Joe: I’m not sure if this makes me horny or sad
Walky: I… we’ve just been fucking, I don’t feel like I have the right to feel any kind of way about it
I would *love* to see her realize this, but I’m also wary of it happening while she’s in a relationship. Not because of the biphobic “bi people are cheaters” BS, but just–it’s Joyce, she’s already going from 0 to 60 in 2 seconds about a lot of things in her life, and I’m worried *she* might harbor some internalized biphobia and it might cause her to do some… well, dumbing
It is entirely possible to experiment with one’s sexuality while within a relationship. One merely needs to speak with one’s partner about it first.
Somehow, I doubt Joe is going to mind Joyce doing some experiments with Dorothy so long as he gives prior consent.
Actually, given the current situation, I think Walky might be the bigger sticking point.
Wally and Joe abruptly wake up in a room. It’s pitch black except for soft yellow spotlights above each of them. A third spotlight comes on, revealing a large chair, facing away from them. The chair swivels. Joyce is in it, one leg crossed over the other, fingers tented, an intense look in her eye. She’s wearing a black leather trench coat and round sunglasses. After a long pause (perhaps punctuated with “WTF”s from the guys), Joyce clears her throat.
“So,” she says, “I’m sure you’d like to know why I brought you both here.”
“Within a relationship” is one thing. At the very start of the relationship, while you’ve barely started unpacking your hangups about sex in a straight relationship (and your partner has barely started unpacking his about relationships instead of just casual sex)?
Or in the Dorothy/Walky case, while they’re trying to put an old relationship back together and see if they still work and adjust to each other’s changes.
They’ve all got work to do already just to make things work. Not a great to time to complicate things.
I’m surprised Becky hasn’t realized how much she’s already changed. A out and self described soft butch, lesbian if a far different person than the child raised on traditional fundamentalist Christian values. Even if she hasn’t abandoned her faith it has definitely taken a new form.
I think that is a change though. Suppressing who you are isn’t the real you. Leslie for instance was engaged or married to a guy before right? (Is that part of her lore? I vaguely remember her also saying she was briefly homeless?) I think her current self is a dramatic change from that woman. Change isn’t just about your identity but how you express it as well.
There’s an excellent point to be made, actually, in this strip about that. Becky is trying very hard to be open and upfront about who and what she is now, and the pieces don’t all necessarily fit. Two feet away we have Billie, who basically is deciding to steam press herself a new identity and go to war with anything attached to the old she’s thrown away, and Ruth, who at least is trying be open about who she is, even if she doesn’t particularly like the person she sees.
None of them really like where their emotional landscape is at. Honestly, Ruth’s trying to accept (even when what she is accepting – feral sad sack – is not a particularly good thing), while Becky just kinda cracks and Jennifer expunges.
Her deprogramming is going to actually be a lot harder than Joyce’s, because she’s so adamant about actually holding onto those parts of her old life, that she feels connect her to her mother.
If she didn’t see her cult’s way of life as distorted, it’s because so much in her life was distorted around it to make it look reasonable. This includes the ways she was brought up to approach social interactions, how to see and form relationships, all distorted for the sake of what is required of a cult member.
As Throwatron pointed out, the fact that this is tangled up with nostalgic memories, that which make Becky feel closer to her mother, is all the more reason for concern. For what good is feeling closer to her mother, if it comes at the cost of alienation from Joyce and her friends?
She did.
But that’s because Joyce was talking about the whole package.
That doesn’t mean that Becky isn’t still holding onto some of the toxic beliefs of their particular church. Though I don’t think we’ve really seen much introspection from her since the immediate aftermath of having sex the first time?
Well, let’s try and keep it simple. Becky still has some problems with being open with her feelings. She opens up with Dina the most, but she often still plays the clown that she probably learned while growing up in a difficult household. I think that hinders her friendship with Dorothy and Joyce. I think it played a part in her missing Dorothy’s spiral, despite swearing she would never miss the signs of someone’s depression again. Got to be real to receive real (or perhaps to even see it in the first place).
Becky still has a lot of shame and guilt to deprogram. Joyce may have not gone all the way yet, but she’s not singing church music to herself after sleeping/cuddling with Joe either. If I remember correctly, Becky even felt guilty for turning Dina into a lustasaurus or something, and immediately panicked and suggested they go down to the courthouse. I don’t see Joyce doing that. If anything, I expect Joe is going to be the one panicking.
And then there’s the simple fact that Leslie isn’t necessarily talking about her. Becky misses or ignores that other people in her life can change or elaborate. This might tie into the long running theories concerning Joyce and Dorothy in the comments.
Leslie is almost certainly not talking about Becky – or about any of the cast. She’s making a general true statement that the cast is applying to themselves.
The important part is the “Fought for” bit I think. Becky did fought quite a lot in order to be able to claim her identity as a lesbian and live with it freely, mostly due to her dad. So of course for her the idea that identity she went through so much to hold onto changing in the future might be upsetting.
Oof. Also, while I don’t thinking this would happen in the comic, an attitude like Becky’s can fuck you up if your identity does end up changing. Which connects to the point of the lesson…
when I first came out, it was as bisexual, which I no longer identify with, but it took a longer time to be okay letting go of the label because so many people had reacted with thinking/treating it as/saying it was a phase as if that invalidated it. And it wasn’t that I moved to gay or straight, which is what they assumed would happen, it just got messier and queerer and “bisexual” didn’t feel right for me anymore.
I suspect that what the well-adjusted mind develops over time is a rejection of descriptors themselves, and an acceptance of the self as just “me, whatever that means at the moment.”
Anyway, that’s where I’m hoping to find myself someday. Looks like a long road from here though.
If I may wax geeky for a moment (“what, here?” 😛 ):
This is, IMO, where we see Spock Prime at the end of Trek ’09: at long long last finally comfortable in his own skin and with all his parts and internal contradictions, a bit wry and playful, but also gentle and kind to his younger self, trying to impart on the latter some bits of hard-won wisdom.
Oh poor Becky, I want to give her a hug. I have a family member that lost a spouse to suicide and get really uncomfortable when someone uses a euphemism like that around them. They seem okay and well adjusted, but still, I pause before I send media suggestions with similar subject matter.
But for Becky here, I think it’s also a case of “think before you speak”. NOT “censor yourself” but rather asking: are these words really what I believe or am I just rolling a tape? Observing one’s own thoughts.
THANKS YOU! It is really not that difficult to comprehend. I don’t know why so many commenters keep treating Jennifer as something completely separated from Billie and that she needs to “come back” when they are the exact same person with the exact same flaws.
??? This is literally the exact same way Billie talks to people, it’s just directed at Ruth now instead of Walky. But she’s always been needlessly over the top mean when defensive.
Damn. Panel four *hurts*. I have a lot of trouble sympathizing with Becky these days, because I find the way she treats her friends very unpleasant, but I truly feel for her in this moment.
I hope Becky will reach a point where she can unlearn her fathers awful programing and more often act like this, be honest and vulnerable about her pain instead of vitrolic.
Isn’t that why most people break up? They notice their dysfunctional relationship somehow turned into a dysfunctional not-relationship and they figure they might as well make it official.
Hmmm, the first time we’ve seen Jennifer, who redefines herself whenever it’s inconvenient or she’s bored, and we’re talking about how people define themselves and the way it can be fluid over time. I suspect Jennifer will not learn her lesson anytime soon.
Loading ...
Fuck off, Jennifer.
at least she won’t be invited ‘to do a keg stand’ with them lol
Thank you for summing up my feelings with amazing precision!
Anyone else seeing the parallels between Ms. Billingsworth and the people we lost to misinformation during covid?
This is unnecessarily catty, isn’t it.
She’s learned much from Raidah’s mean-girl club.
She was like this in the fall, if less direct about it.
That’s how she flirts with her, remember? I feel like they’re on their way to getting back whenever they’re being jerks to each other.
This one gets it.
Yup sounds like forplay.
*plays “Reconstruct” by Photay on hacked muzak*
im having trouble following this one
Same. I almost had my chance to comment first but it took me three or four reads to parse it.
Panels 1 and 2 happen sequentially
Panel 4 follows panel 2
Panels 3 and 5 also follow panel 2.
It’s two separate conversations going on.
Translation:
Panel 1: Sometimes people change aspects of their identity – they discover more about themselves or realize they are a whole different thing than what they were.
Panel 2: Becky refuses to consider change because Lesbian for life yo. Makes off-hand suicide joke.
Panel 3: Jennifer makes a “my bisexuality was just a phase” joke. Ruth disapproves.
Panel 4: Becky realises she just accidentally made a suicide joke and feels guilty cause her mom did the suicide.
Panel 5: Jen calls Ruth a sad sack. Ruth doesn’t disagree, but suggests adding additional adjectives.
*polite applause* Well done! (I had forgotten about Becky’s mom)
She might also feel a bit guilty because Ruth and Jennifer had suicide ideations last semester, tying the panels with them into Becky’s feelings about suicide and her mom.
My only quibble with this is that I think Becky didn’t actually realize she was alluding suicide until she remembered who she was in the room with and realized the implications of the phrase “I’d rather die.” It’s the sort of thing that people say offhandedly a lot without really meaning its full implications.
ofc it’s probably just me splitting hairs
yeah, it’s a good little moment
Jennifer’s homophobia has always been Not A Joke.
Is it homophobia or does she just hate Ruth? She doesn’t seem to have a problem with other gay people just herself and Ruth specifically.
I think it’s closer to biphobia, she’s on record as saying she doesn’t believe it’s a real thing and that it’s just a phase people go through and I’m not sure if she’s ever recanted that stance
She actually didn’t seem that bothered by Asher kissing Ethan even when he told her point blank. In fact it got her temporarily interested in him again. I think she just has self loathing and regular loathing for her an Ruth that can only express itself by adamantly denying her attraction. Saying it was just a phase makes the relationship less real. Although Jen does need to rectify her past biphobic denialism.
Iirc she also thinks he’s only doing it to make her jealous and not because he’s actually interested in Ethan
Yeah, she doesn’t think it’s real.
She’s in for a surprise.
Yeah. Her internalized biphobia is directly protecting her from seeing Asher being interested in someone else for what it is, which is that it is what it literally is. She also has to double down on her internalized biphobia, to cope with losing Ruth. Jennifer is an all-time master at denial and self-deception, so none of this is out of character for her.
I think her homo/biphobia is almost entirely internalized. She’s never seemed to have a problem with anyone else being gay or bi, just with herself.
It doesn’t fit the image she wants, which is that’s she’s normal.
I think this is the first hard evidence that she’s reverted to this attitude since the time skip? There were a couple earlier hints, but not this solid.
She doesn’t have a problem with people being gay or lesbian. She has however denied that bisexuality is something that exists.
Perfect! Thanks 😌 Was trying to figure out what made her think of her mom <3
Thank you so much!
I was taking it to mean Becky would never change anything about herself, then apologized to her Mom, and I’m wondering what not changing herself had to do with her Mom D:
Reading Comprehension, yo.
I vaguely recall theories that Becky’s mom wasn’t straight and that it contributed to her committing suicide.
If Becky suspects that, then saying “I’d rather die than [accept my identity is different than I thought it was]” would feel like even more of a betrayal to her mom.
i must have missed that comic, i just thought she was miserable with toedad. can anyone find it for me and post it? i wanna read it inow
People don’t need to have evidence to have theories.
Fan hypotheses
We don’t even know if she WAS miserable with Toedad. I mean, it is a fair bet, but maybe they were happy with each other and she just had untreated depression or a chemical unbalance. We don’t know because she has, so far, been a non-character and more of a literary device than anythin
I initially read panel one more as “because I don’t feel that way and won’t ever change the idea that fluid identities exist is bunk” because I have heard that from people a few times. I was so focused on that that I missed the “I’d rather die” part completely and was flummoxed by panel 4.
(Sometimes its really good to read through the comments and get other takes on panels)
Sounds about right, except I think Jennifer was serious about the phase thing.
I think she’s serious. I think she’s also wrong. 🙂
She was also serious about not being bi back when she was fucking Ruth. Or Alice before that.
Thanks for the explanation.
Huh. I’ve never read “i’d rather die than X” as a suicide thing. Not directly anyway.
I’ve always understood it as, to use Becky as an example: A guy puts a gun to her head and demands she stops being a lesbian or she’ll shoot. But she says “Do it you pussy!” rather than give in. Which I guess could be called suicidal, since she’s choosing murder, but … ehhh…..
… Which isn’t that far removed from her actual life experience, honestly.
Pretty sure Ruth is upset that that adjectives didn’t include “murderous”.
(Great summary btw!)
Oh no my red flags are going up for the chapter. They were already up, now they’re very very up.
So your the villain behind Communist space program. Tim Curry is a national treasure! How dare you let him leave us?
Nah that’s me 😛
But communism has nothing to do with that. It was just a red herring.
then who did I kill?
it’ll def leading to her being a ‘sad drunk’ if not breaking down, assuming amber/amazigirl isn’t stopping it or just both spiralling into her own separate breakdown
Later on everyone will be sat around the XX bottle drinking and talking about how this ‘keg party’ is a defining college experience, Joe will wince everytime.
Jennifer will strole up to the door with a keg and be like, “hey don’t feel like drinking alone, can I join?” She won’t even know about the keg party idea, it’s just her sad Jilly chapter keg.
She then proceeds to get so blitzed that Billy steps out of her like Clark Kent in Superman 3 to help her confront her hang ups over Ruth, her sexuality and her narcissism. Billy and Jennifer make out inside an imaginary trash compactor and break out of it together.
I love this.
Is it really a DoA strip without someone having an emotional moment in the middle of two other people bickering?
Good job noticing. I believe somewhere in the fine print it’s actually guaranteed in each scene.
Can’t imagine why her boyfriend left her
Turns out *his* heterosexuality was just a phase!
He had a chance to date Sal, and apparently passed on it. If that wasn’t an indication…
To be fair, his options were to go to jail or to let Sal go to jail. After that Sal pretty much wasn’t interested.
Disagree. She thought he was too dangerous for anyone but her.
Well at least Becky’s learning something in this class. I don’t know what it was, but it was something.
Feral Sad Sack?
Did Jennifer fight in the second world war? xD
She was a battlefield reporter during the Martian Invasion?
No, wait, that was Billie.
Ohhhh heyyy it’s a storyline addressing her internalized biphobia, yay.
I mean… I certainly hope so?
But if you’re waiting for the moment Jennifer acknowledges that she is unequivocally bi, you’re underestimating how long internalized bigotries can compel one to equivocate.
Oh I’m just not looking forward to the comments sections about this.
I mean it’s in some way a foil of what Joyce went through, with a similar bending and breaking her brain?
It’s always easier in the present moment to double down on what you already know than it is to accept that what you were taught growing up were lies.
Joyce enthusiastically embraces change.
Jennifer vehemently denies she needs to change, while gradually changing anyway.
Ah, and so through the foil we see the contrast. Joyce is compelled to change if only to seperate herself from her previously established role as “naive weird Christian girl”. Jennifer on the other hand feels no such analoguous need, instead welcoming the notion that her status as alpha bongo in high school automatically somehow transfers over to college as long as she keeps acting the part.
Jennifer is … not an especially great or healthy individual, so I would not put internalizing biphobia past her. However, given that she has also changed her name, friend group, hair, and lovers it is difficult to say with certainty what she is referring to. Of course, all of those options are in some way psychologically tangled up with her relationship with Ruth – so she does seem to be saying being Ruth’s girlfriend was a mistake. However, given the class she is in, it is possible that she is just saying it was a mistake to be with Ruth, specifically, and not for her to like women in general.
I took it as referring to her Billie identity. Thank you for your sober nuance. The world could use more of it.
As a dagger aimed at Ruth, it’s effective. But also, Jen/Billie has serious struggles with authenticity and identity. Being bisexual is no more real to her than being a head cheerleader, alpha bongo, It Girl, or suicide pact lesbian. Who she is always fluctuates to fit the room.
The author is autistic so pretty much every character reflects some component of autistic thinking. Billie’s character very clearly represents masking. She’s nerdy, with special interests that she cares deeply about, but conceals everything behind a.veneer of “coolness” and takes pride in her ability to be a social chameleon. She takes every opportunity to reinvent herself for social control because she doesn’t really understand how to be authentically herself in a natural unforced way. Every new costume she tries on is a pretense. This also comes paired with alcohol addiction because it is the only way she can lose the facade without being judged for doing so.
Tl;dr for: Your reading isn’t incorrect, just incomplete 🙂
I mean, she did say bisexuality only exists in porn. So. Whether or not she has internalized biphobia isn’t really a question. I also don’t thinl she’s taking the whole Asher/Ethan thing as seriously as if Ethan were a woman but idk that’s just conjecture. Personally I take this as denying her attraction to women to dunk on Ruth
When Jennifer attempted rapprochement with Ruth, she set her up on a date with a woman. They didn’t hit it off, and Ruth went home with a guy instead. Jennifer took it personally, possibly in more than one way (rejection of olive branch, and Ruth being clearly bisexual).
makes me wonder what other ‘exes’ were like, idk if she really had any other ‘girlfriends’, there was a panel with alice saying she ‘loved her’ but idk if it rly went as far as what ruth did.
altho her being a ‘disaster’ bi is def more of a trainwreck for the both of them than like the comedy kind lol
We’ve had a few more clues to the Alice/Billie thing, but nothing completely solid.
My read is that Alice was definitely dating Billie, but Billie would never accept that and was also regularly getting picked up by boys at drunken parties.
It’s pretty clear that her date with Ruth was her first real acknowledged “date” with a woman and that it recontextualized some things for her. Which Jennifer has now shoved back into a box as a “mistake” or a phase.
Well, the storyline is. Whether or not she will remains to be seen. I’m not hopeful.
She doesn’t have to be a feral sad sack
The Oilers aren’t the champions this year
I can’t even begin to imagine what would happen to Ruth’s sense of self if the Maple Leafs were to ever win the Stanley Cup!
I’m saying this with full confidence as both a fellow Toronto Maple Leafs fan and MDD haver, no cap the Maple Leafs winning the cup would honest to god expel the depression from her body for like. A week tops.
No cap honest to God deadass fr fr swear on me mum literally tbh???
Ok ??????
Luckily, this can never happen, because it would require the Leafs to win at least one playoff series.
Ruth would lose her mind well ahead of that point from the victories necessary to get that far to begin with
…as a bipolar person I think it would be interesting to see that it drives her into a manic episode.
Is Ruth bipolar?
As someone who’s been diagnosed as Bipolar on top or a lot of stuff…
She does read bipolar instead of just depressed, tbh.
I don’t think we have a specific disorder for her beyond depression sort of generally. Which is probably Major Depressive Disorder, but could also be Bipolar Disorder; especially BP type 2.
That was my grandmother’s diagnosis and Ruth reminds me a LOT of my grandma.
And not just because my Grandma’s name was also Ruth.
In particular, her anger and irritability are pretty classic hypomania though that also presents in euthymic (balanced) moods at elevated levels compared to folks who aren’t bipolar.
If she has bipolar, then it’s very possible that if she is on SSRIs that she is at a heightened risk of hypomania and/or mania.
It’s worth noting that a lot of folks clocked Joyce as autistic before her discussion with her doctor (which is still not a formal diagnosis btw). We now have two bipolar people in the comments saying Ruth seems bipolar to them.
I’m a Sabers fan my stanley cup is just seeing the Habs and Leafs not win the cup.
aw becky 🙁 you’re ok
well they can have an impropmtu proper sendoff/funeral, i can’t imagine the original funeral was a proper grieving process (since i imagine most ppl like joyce that attended was informed she died of cancer instead of the real raeson)
Extremely likely it was Known But Not Talked About(tm). Obviously Becky knew, we know Hank knew which presumably means Carol also knew, the priest would have known, anyone working at the hospital would’ve known, if there was any extended family they almost certainly knew. Even if it wasn’t gossiped about (which it almost certainly was, but in the “not talked about” sort of way), the neighborhood had the pieces of information to put it together.
A sad Becky is hard to watch. Stupid well done writing and skillful illustrations making me feel things.
*cut to scene of Joyce and Dorothy studying the next chapter in bed together, a slow realization dawning on Joyce’s face*
Dorothy’s about to sleep with her boyfriend.
**Joe surprised pikachu face**
(yes, I know you meant Walky, but this is funnier)
It is, I was thinking the exact same thing.
On the other hand, neither Joe nor Walky seem like the type of dude who would think that they should prevent their two hot girlfriends from making out. Joe’s a recovering pervert who is also on a full “I Support Everything About My Girlfriend” kick, and Walky is obsessively laid-back about everything, randomly and unpredictably beholden to specific masculine stereo-types, and possibly doesn’t have enough of a spine to say “no” to Dorothy on this, when he already thinks she’s only with him because she’s settling.
I’m not sure if both of them would actually be cool with it, deep down, but I can also imagine them looking each other in the eye, then looking at their girlfriends, and then back at each other, and going “I mean, are we really gonna be the two guys who stop this from happening?!”
*Joe and Wally walk in on Joyce and Dorothy making out*
Walky: ..
Joe: I’m not sure if this makes me horny or sad
Walky: I… we’ve just been fucking, I don’t feel like I have the right to feel any kind of way about it
Dorothy & Joyce: GET IN HERE YOU MORONS
I read Walky as saying he and Joe had just been fucking, which still fits with the rest of his sentence.
I would *love* to see her realize this, but I’m also wary of it happening while she’s in a relationship. Not because of the biphobic “bi people are cheaters” BS, but just–it’s Joyce, she’s already going from 0 to 60 in 2 seconds about a lot of things in her life, and I’m worried *she* might harbor some internalized biphobia and it might cause her to do some… well, dumbing
It is entirely possible to experiment with one’s sexuality while within a relationship. One merely needs to speak with one’s partner about it first.
Somehow, I doubt Joe is going to mind Joyce doing some experiments with Dorothy so long as he gives prior consent.
Actually, given the current situation, I think Walky might be the bigger sticking point.
Wally and Joe abruptly wake up in a room. It’s pitch black except for soft yellow spotlights above each of them. A third spotlight comes on, revealing a large chair, facing away from them. The chair swivels. Joyce is in it, one leg crossed over the other, fingers tented, an intense look in her eye. She’s wearing a black leather trench coat and round sunglasses. After a long pause (perhaps punctuated with “WTF”s from the guys), Joyce clears her throat.
“So,” she says, “I’m sure you’d like to know why I brought you both here.”
Okay, I’m down, as long as when Dorothy gets her spotlight, she’s wearing the dress from Basic Instinct.
Dorothy is, but she’s already got her spotlight as she’s busy under Joyce’s trench coat.
I don’t know if Walky would be ok with it actually happening.
But a long time ago he (jokingly) referred to Joyce as “My girlfriend’s girlfriend,” so he’s likely aware of the general situation.
“Within a relationship” is one thing. At the very start of the relationship, while you’ve barely started unpacking your hangups about sex in a straight relationship (and your partner has barely started unpacking his about relationships instead of just casual sex)?
Or in the Dorothy/Walky case, while they’re trying to put an old relationship back together and see if they still work and adjust to each other’s changes.
They’ve all got work to do already just to make things work. Not a great to time to complicate things.
This! This is what I was trying and failing to communicate. The timing right now would be… less than stellar, for all parties involved
I’ve done polyamory before–I know it’s possible–I just feel like that’d be another huge hurdle for Joyce. I’d be psyched to see it happen, tho!
I am totally here for Joyce going from repressed fundie virgin to bisexual polyamorous atheist in the space of a semester.
I mean, I thought that was literally the point of going to secular college in the first place?!
No, just a happy byproduct.
College is a place where you learn things.
Sometimes the things you learn are about yourself.
I’m surprised Becky hasn’t realized how much she’s already changed. A out and self described soft butch, lesbian if a far different person than the child raised on traditional fundamentalist Christian values. Even if she hasn’t abandoned her faith it has definitely taken a new form.
I mean, that’s not exactly a change in “who she is” per se; the real change is that she’s open about “who she is.”
I think that is a change though. Suppressing who you are isn’t the real you. Leslie for instance was engaged or married to a guy before right? (Is that part of her lore? I vaguely remember her also saying she was briefly homeless?) I think her current self is a dramatic change from that woman. Change isn’t just about your identity but how you express it as well.
There’s an excellent point to be made, actually, in this strip about that. Becky is trying very hard to be open and upfront about who and what she is now, and the pieces don’t all necessarily fit. Two feet away we have Billie, who basically is deciding to steam press herself a new identity and go to war with anything attached to the old she’s thrown away, and Ruth, who at least is trying be open about who she is, even if she doesn’t particularly like the person she sees.
None of them really like where their emotional landscape is at. Honestly, Ruth’s trying to accept (even when what she is accepting – feral sad sack – is not a particularly good thing), while Becky just kinda cracks and Jennifer expunges.
Becky still has a lot of deprogramming to do.
Her deprogramming is going to actually be a lot harder than Joyce’s, because she’s so adamant about actually holding onto those parts of her old life, that she feels connect her to her mother.
I mean does she need to be deprogrammed? What is she allowed to actually “believe” on her own?
Becky was “raised to believe violence is love and pleasure is evil”.
If she didn’t see her cult’s way of life as distorted, it’s because so much in her life was distorted around it to make it look reasonable. This includes the ways she was brought up to approach social interactions, how to see and form relationships, all distorted for the sake of what is required of a cult member.
As Throwatron pointed out, the fact that this is tangled up with nostalgic memories, that which make Becky feel closer to her mother, is all the more reason for concern. For what good is feeling closer to her mother, if it comes at the cost of alienation from Joyce and her friends?
I dunno, when Joyce thinks Becky is going to abandon her beliefs because she’s “smart” she came off as a horrifying bigot.
She did.
But that’s because Joyce was talking about the whole package.
That doesn’t mean that Becky isn’t still holding onto some of the toxic beliefs of their particular church. Though I don’t think we’ve really seen much introspection from her since the immediate aftermath of having sex the first time?
I’m perfectly okay with Becky throwing out the perversions she was taught were the religion she was told they practiced, and keeping the thing itself.
Well, let’s try and keep it simple. Becky still has some problems with being open with her feelings. She opens up with Dina the most, but she often still plays the clown that she probably learned while growing up in a difficult household. I think that hinders her friendship with Dorothy and Joyce. I think it played a part in her missing Dorothy’s spiral, despite swearing she would never miss the signs of someone’s depression again. Got to be real to receive real (or perhaps to even see it in the first place).
Becky still has a lot of shame and guilt to deprogram. Joyce may have not gone all the way yet, but she’s not singing church music to herself after sleeping/cuddling with Joe either. If I remember correctly, Becky even felt guilty for turning Dina into a lustasaurus or something, and immediately panicked and suggested they go down to the courthouse. I don’t see Joyce doing that. If anything, I expect Joe is going to be the one panicking.
And then there’s the simple fact that Leslie isn’t necessarily talking about her. Becky misses or ignores that other people in her life can change or elaborate. This might tie into the long running theories concerning Joyce and Dorothy in the comments.
Leslie is almost certainly not talking about Becky – or about any of the cast. She’s making a general true statement that the cast is applying to themselves.
The important part is the “Fought for” bit I think. Becky did fought quite a lot in order to be able to claim her identity as a lesbian and live with it freely, mostly due to her dad. So of course for her the idea that identity she went through so much to hold onto changing in the future might be upsetting.
love how yo ucan see more of th sadness in her eyes despite her face being smaller/further away
So Becky is now tied for 7th with Carla, Walky, and… :checks notes: … Joyce?
I double checked the omniscient 18 year old strip, to make sure the ear in today’s panel 3 wasn’t theirs.
the ear in panel 2 is Ruth’s
yes, indeed. that’s not the ear I was curious about.
Dang, Becky’s breaking down 🙁 I predict this kegger will be a hot mess for everyone.
Not every moment of sadness is indicative of a breakdown, come on.
Becky’s coping mechanism is to wallpaper over her sadness with a Stepford smile and/or joke. That façade may be alcohol-soluble.
Oof. Also, while I don’t thinking this would happen in the comic, an attitude like Becky’s can fuck you up if your identity does end up changing. Which connects to the point of the lesson…
when I first came out, it was as bisexual, which I no longer identify with, but it took a longer time to be okay letting go of the label because so many people had reacted with thinking/treating it as/saying it was a phase as if that invalidated it. And it wasn’t that I moved to gay or straight, which is what they assumed would happen, it just got messier and queerer and “bisexual” didn’t feel right for me anymore.
Oh, back in your kennels, BOTH you two…
Jennifer your core descriptor of “human dumpster fire” is secure as Ft. Knox.
Jennifer’s gonna double down on trying to be straight. Oh boy.
I suspect that what the well-adjusted mind develops over time is a rejection of descriptors themselves, and an acceptance of the self as just “me, whatever that means at the moment.”
Anyway, that’s where I’m hoping to find myself someday. Looks like a long road from here though.
What a nice thought! Well-adjusted self-acceptance indeed.
Looks like a decent start to me! I wish you well on your travels.
That is very kind of you. Thank you.
“Me” is a path, not a fixed location.
I like that.
If I may wax geeky for a moment (“what, here?” 😛 ):
This is, IMO, where we see Spock Prime at the end of Trek ’09: at long long last finally comfortable in his own skin and with all his parts and internal contradictions, a bit wry and playful, but also gentle and kind to his younger self, trying to impart on the latter some bits of hard-won wisdom.
“Fluid Identities” sounds like a good name for a cyberpunk novel about merging uploaded mindstates. By Walter Jon Williams.
“And where does the newborn go from here?”
Or, of course, a rock band.
“some kind of cornered fussy animal” MAN that’s a mood
big me_irl moment
Oh poor Becky, I want to give her a hug. I have a family member that lost a spouse to suicide and get really uncomfortable when someone uses a euphemism like that around them. They seem okay and well adjusted, but still, I pause before I send media suggestions with similar subject matter.
Yeah, I do the same thing with a friend.
But for Becky here, I think it’s also a case of “think before you speak”. NOT “censor yourself” but rather asking: are these words really what I believe or am I just rolling a tape? Observing one’s own thoughts.
Well that fourth panel hits like a truck
tsk tsk and with Ruth standing right there, too
I hope that Jennifer crushes on another girl so hard that she forgets about Asher just to be rejected by the former
Bring Billie back, this skin walker fucking sucks. They did an awful job imitating her
She has always been like this.
Jennifer is simply Billie committing to her worst impulses, rather than having a casual relationship with them.
THANKS YOU! It is really not that difficult to comprehend. I don’t know why so many commenters keep treating Jennifer as something completely separated from Billie and that she needs to “come back” when they are the exact same person with the exact same flaws.
Jennifer is Billie and Billie is Jennifer. She just changed masks.
??? This is literally the exact same way Billie talks to people, it’s just directed at Ruth now instead of Walky. But she’s always been needlessly over the top mean when defensive.
Damn. Panel four *hurts*. I have a lot of trouble sympathizing with Becky these days, because I find the way she treats her friends very unpleasant, but I truly feel for her in this moment.
I hope Becky will reach a point where she can unlearn her fathers awful programing and more often act like this, be honest and vulnerable about her pain instead of vitrolic.
uugh, get a room, you two
Not literally hopefully. When they were together they brought out the worse in each other.
and that room is an octogon
Happy Pride Month to those two and their bullshit.
(and oh boy howdy do they have some bullshit.)
Jennifer, Ruth, what the fuck
Becky, oof
I’m happy Becky gets these moments
Don’t know if I’ve ever seen a dysfunctional not-relationship, but they’re doing it.
Isn’t that why most people break up? They notice their dysfunctional relationship somehow turned into a dysfunctional not-relationship and they figure they might as well make it official.
Enemies to Lovers to Enemies
Just like Goku and Freeza.
Establishing shot strip, for a Carla+Charlie scene.
And yet some folks think these two should get back together. Also oof Becky.
Hmmm, the first time we’ve seen Jennifer, who redefines herself whenever it’s inconvenient or she’s bored, and we’re talking about how people define themselves and the way it can be fluid over time. I suspect Jennifer will not learn her lesson anytime soon.
Ugh, every panel with Becky is a wasted panel that could be used for less annoying and ham-fisted characters.
Every whiny comment like this extends my lifespan by 1000 years.
you’re outliving the heat death of the universe at this point
Is it time to conquer Earth yet?
Queen BerylThe Empress of Evolution needs more energy.Must harvest more energy from earthlings before we proceed.
It’s not whiny to have taste. But it is silly to get defensive about fictional characters.
Becky, relying on her own mother, to keep her from doing something against herself.
Ugh, that’s painful.
I think it was an off-hand suicide joke,
which Becky immediately realized was disrespectful to the memory of her mother
(who was driven to commit suicide because she wasn’t able to be her true lesbian self within her cult)
(who was driven to commit suicide because she wasn’t able to be her true lesbian self within her cult)
Is this confirmed anywhere? I didn’t get that impression in the slightest.
Give ‘er another 10 years (real time) she’ll have a crisis about realizing bisexuality is an ongoing condition eventually.
Poor becky. Grief hits at random…
Whatever you need to get through the day, Jennifer.