I think what makes it sweet is, at least in the way Joyce means it, conveys that you trust them to be around you while in a state that is compromised and vulnerable. You trust that they wouldn’t take advantage of your inebriation to do things you wouldn’t be okay with. As such, I don’t think you need the qualifier that it wouldn’t be sweet to say to some people, since it wouldn’t be *said* to those people in the first place.
Granted, there are other contexts where one might say that line that are rather less sweet, I’ve had people express a desire to get drunk with me specifically because they know I don’t drink and they are curious what I would be like if I ever did, so it’s less about trusting me to be around them while they are vulnerable, but rather wanting to see what I’m like when I am (although phrasing it like that sounds way more predatory than it is, it’s usually just curiosity and amusement driving them rather than anything malicious).
Yes… because drunken people are famously rational and would accept rejection of sexual advances by a sober partner who actually has a healthy understanding of ‘consent’, especially if said drunken partner has a healthy but extremely repressed libido and has finally decided to unwind said repression.
Joe is already on record with this… “Was she underage? Was she drunk? Was she crying?” when chastising Danny for not ‘casual banging’ Billie that one time she came to interview him for the Amazi-Girl story.
With all of the growth his character has experienced, one would be hard-pressed to be able to paint Joe as suddenly having LESS care about consent – even moreso now that this isn’t some casual ‘consenting-adults’ hookup – this is Joyce, someone for whom he has legitimate feelings.
In my own relationships I have a strict Only-Sober policy when it comes to ‘sexy shenanigans’, and only then, after an explicit verbal agreement before any alcohol is consumed would I agree to anything like that (say, for instance, they would like to ‘see what “it” is like when drunk/buzzed), and even then, I will still require myself to be sober (I am a very infrequent drinker, so it’s not really a sacrifice for me) in case the refs need to call a flag on the play.
That, and it’s pretty obvious that Joyce, at this point, is acting in a more ‘performative rebellion’ way, than being her genuine untethered self – which Joe will likely call her on when they’re in private again – which, itself will likely lead to a heated exchange between the two of them over when future physical intimacy will actually take place.
I get that but… this isn’t a stranger. Joyce clearly wants to have sex with him. She has said so multiple times whilst completely sober. If she has a bit to drink and starts coming on to him, Joe really hasn’t got to worry about consent. She’s given it. (Unless she is completely smashed, obviously.)
Now, he might not want to have sex with someone who is drunk for other reasons. And that’s fine. But if it’s just Joyce using alcohol to get over an anxiety issue, then as long as they’ve had a chat beforehand, I don’t see the issue.
She’s said it, but always in a futury way, not in a “I’m really okay with it any time now” way. She’d definitely interested, but not necessarily really ready. And making that move while drunk would be questionable.
If they have a chat beforehand, explicitly agreeing they’re going to have sex after the party once she’s drunk, that’s a different story, though still uncomfortable.
Joe especially is going to be thinking of Liz and how she backed off at the last moment, despite seeming enthusiastic before and worrying that a drunk Joyce will feel the same way, but not stop because of the drunkenness.
I do get that. I’m just kinda disagreeing with the idea that any sex with someone who’s had a drink is “uncomfortable”. There’s a whole lot of space to get to before “completely smashed”, and I don’t agree that someone loses all agency the moment they’ve had a sip. Would having sex with someone who has taken medical cannabis also be uncomfortable.
It’s understandable for Joe to be thinking about Liz (if he is), but this isn’t remotely the same situation. He didn’t know Liz. He does know Joyce. He knows what Joyce wants. Joyce is initiating all these actions herself. She isn’t being pressured by anyone. She is actively choosing to get drunk.surrounded by people she trusts with full knowledge of what might happen.
(Now, if it turns out that Joe has an issue with drink for other reasons, that’s fair enough. Maybe his dad is an alcoholic? Maybe he worries that his large sexual appetite might turn in to a large alcohol appetite. Have we ever been told Joe’s opinion on drink?)
Joy is serious about fitness / body building. Alcohol depresses testosterone levels in men (and elevates them in women). I doubt Joe drinks more than a single social beer now and then possibly.
I agree about any sex when drunk. Nothing really wrong with it.
It’s more problematic when it’s your first time with someone. And even more so when it’s their first time at all. Especially if you haven’t explicitly talked about it before.
That said, some people even here put too much focus on the process around consent. The important thing is that everyone is actually willing and especially in the case of alcohol, not regretting it once they’re sober again. The process of getting explicit sober consent is just a clear way of ensuring this. If you go ahead without that, you need to be sure you’re right. If you are right, it doesn’t matter that you skipped some steps, everyone’s still happy.
But early on, it’s much harder to be sure.
Needing to get drunk for sexy times is a terrible habit to cultivate, and all too common. A bit of alcohol in good company can be pleasant, but ”getting drunk is fun” is a big red flag for me. Alcohol is a very dangerous drug, and usually not worth the health effects and other ways it’s bad for you.
Joe is also 18, and they’re pretty good at burning the candle at both ends.
And yeah, having to get drunk every time to have sex would be a terrible habit to cultivate, but Joyce has been drunk once and had sex zero times. It’s probably a bit too early to catastophise about that.
Yiiiikes. That’s a lot of mileage you got out of completely misunderstanding what I said:
“She can get drunk without them having sex.”
As in, this is a possibility. Plenty of people drink without having sex as a result. The two outcomes are not linked.
I’m not sure where you read any conversation at ALL about consent into that, especially:
“With all of the growth his character has experienced, one would be hard-pressed to be able to paint Joe as suddenly having LESS care about consent-”
Like… go up and point to me where in those 8 words I said anything even remotely like that?? Or where I asked you to tell me your personal standards for when you’ll personally bang someone?
Plenty of drunk people remain rational enough to accept a “no”, there are levels to getting drunk and people are individuals. Before you twist this as hard as you twisted the last thing: No, I am not trying to say that Joe should have sex with a drunk Joyce. I am saying it’s super SUPER weird this became a consent conversation when I was talking about it being possible to drink without then having sex. Like the literal correlation between the two things.
I won’t get in to the other points, but I want to address the part about “performative rebellion”. I’m rather certain that’s not what she’s been doing. There’s a huge difference between performative rebellion (“I know this is wrong but I’m doing it anyway because I want to be seen as one of the cool people”) and trying to get over your own hangups, or straight up indoctrination (“I know this isn’t wrong, but it still feels wrong because I was taught it was, I need get used to doing the thing so I can get over that incorrect feeling”).
Joyce is trying to figure out what her “normal, untethered self” is. She dropped an F bomb, realized it wasn’t going to kill her, realized she didn’t feel dirty for it, then said it several more times while riding the high of discovering one more aspect of normal life that she could participate in and feel more normal because of. Those F bombs weren’t performative, they were celebratory.
I don’t think they’ll have drunk sex. It might get close, but I’ll be shocked if it happens that way. Also, Joe is clearly in love, and it’s clear to me that he’s excited to be with her during this time of personal growth for her. It’s like… his old persona essentially said he’d turn her into a “10” with his d*ck; but really he had it backward. Instead he’s lucky enough to be with her and follow her journey of self-acceptance, and in the end he gets to have a relationship with the new Joyce: open and free and able to be her true self without all the lies she was indoctrinated with.
(This might come across as super pro-Joe, but I while I think he’s improving, I’ve still my eye on him. No backsliding, mister 🤨
I don’t think it’s performative rebellion, at least not in the “I still think it’s bad” sense, but it’s still at least partly performative. In the sense that it’s an exaggerated reaction to breaking out of her old limits.
This can be a good stage, but it’s still one where it’s easy to go farther than you really want.
Don’t try to communicate “in a low key way” with someone who’s autistic. Just tell us what you want to communicate, we tend to be bad at that guessing game mind reading bullshit.
I don’t disagree, but some shit is hard to say when it involves personal vulnerability you didn’t necessarily even know you had until that moment. He’s also trying not to say anything that’s going to discourage/hurt Joyce, or (and this is an unreasonable fear, but it’s there) accidentally talk Joyce out of being with him. He’s working on it.
I don’t think it’s inherently wrong to ask for what you want without making a big deal about it on the first ask, as Joe is doing here. It’s only a problem if Joe fails to follow up, or follows up in an angry/blaming manner.
I don’t get where people are getting all these negatives reading of the situation here. Joyce is having a good time and I really don’t see Joe being overly against anything she is saying. It confuses me.
Because we can all see the train wreck coming and Joyce has her airpods in.
He’s stuttering and shifty glancing, and she’s not listening to the apparent concerns he’s trying to express, albeit he’s doing a terrible job of getting his foot out of his mouth about things.
Joe is quickly approaching a brake check while joyce is chucking more coal into the engine.
Then add in the dumpster fire of her probably having a drunken panic attack relating to being roofied and nearly sexually assaulted, with Joe’s issues concerning being a monster undeserving of love….
I sorta agree. While unintentionally, Joyce is definitely sending the wrong vibes. The guy wants to feel like a boyfriend, not like Joyce’s walk on the wild side. Remember Boosters reaction shen he realized that like it or not, he’ll be seen not as much as a person, but as a chapter of Joyce’s journey of self discovery?
Theres always people in this comment section that have some white-hot takes. I generously assume they’re too young to have had a real relationship, the alternative is a bit… incel-y. Like relationships are all some drama movie, you can’t just chill with a partner and have fun.
I don’t think this is a fair take. Fictional media frequently portrays romantic relationships as all-drama no-chill. It’s fair to guess/assume that fictional romances will involve drama on any given day, even if you know that’s not how real life works.
We already know that Joe doesn’t, at least. I think his criteria early on when scolding Danny for being kind of patronizing about not having sex with Billie (since Danny left out that it was because of Amazi-Girl) was that if a gal isn’t “drunk or crying”, that they are capable of granting informed consent. And that was Joe in a more morally dubious time, so if he wasn’t keen on the idea of sex with a drunk girl before, he sure as shit wouldn’t be now.
Drinking and drunk are not synonymous.
There’s ‘I’m a little tipsy, but still have my wits about me’ where you’re inhibitions are lowered but not gone. Useful for someone who wants sex but has a lot of inhibitions due to how they were raised, and wants to lower said inhibitions down a bit.
Now, it’s probably safer, especially with strangers to have a black and white line; but I’m not sure Joe meant it that way.
Personally, I can’t have drugs and sex. I get motion sick.
Its not unethical if they made their intentions clear before they got drunk, it is kind of a let down. Like “you wouldn’t have me unless you’re all sloppy and stupid” isn’t the best feeling imho
Hard disagree on the first part of that, it’s definitely possible to give consent ahead of time with the understanding that you won’t be in a position to withdraw it later. In a BDSM context, that’s something that should only be done with the understanding that somebody is monitoring you carefully to be sure you’re not in danger, but pre-consent to a situation and playing without a safeword is absolutely a kink some people have.
Definitely a VERY BAD IDEA for a first time situation, though. It’s expert-level.
Nobody in the comments seems to be recognising the difference between is it ethical, and is it a good idea.
Joyce has given pretty clear consent while sober, I don’t think it would be unethical if they got drunk and did sex things.
I do think it would be a bad idea, Joe seems to be anxious about it, Joyce seems to be rushing into things out of a sense of rebellion, it is risky that it might make either of them feel bad during or after.
But neither of them are mind readers and with the info each of them has, it wouldn’t make either of them a moral terror if it happened, just might cause bad feelings.
Joyce has absolutely not given consent. Not that you really can give future consent, at least not without being a lot more explicit than she’s been so far.
Neither of them would be a moral terror if they had drunk sex, but it could absolutely screw up the relationship. Probably wouldn’t, because I think Joyce will wind up being alright with it, but it’s risky.
Yeah, she’s very obviously done nothing of the sort. She mentioned sex and then getting drunk, in separate sentences that didn’t connect to each other. If that’s “consent” to somebody, they belong on a list.
Joyce isn’t explicitely saying “I want to get drunk and then have sex with you”. That is definitely true. But Joyce has been fairly obvious that she finds Joe sexually attractive and would like to act on those feelings, once she learns how to cope with her own anxieties. So I also don’t think you can say that if the two of them have a couple of drinks and then she starts putting the moves on Joe that she has given no consent at all, is incapable of rationally giving it and that Joe should immediately demand she stop.
Granted, if her intention is “get drunk and have sex” rather than just “get drunk” they should definitely have a conversation about it first. But then where would the drama be?
Not consent as in “the final word” just, if someone is against sex and then wants to have sex while drunk, you shouldn’t let their drunk self override their sober self. If someone while sober clearly wants to do sex with you, and then gets drunk and still wants to, thats a much more consensual situation
She didn’t press charges when a guy drugged and tried to rape her. I don’t think Joe is in much danger of Joyce going to the authorities after getting drunk and making a choice she later regrets.
No, and any such charges would fail anyway. You have to be pretty solidly drunk to even get charges pressed and it almost certainly wouldn’t happen if she was initiating the sex – even drunkenly.
It could completely mess up her relationship with Joe if something like that happens though. Which it almost certainly won’t.
Joe is probably kind of reluctant/anxious about sexual activity with Joyce, possibly moreso than she is, even. This makes sense given his particular damage, and also how important this all is to him.
But, I think there’s also the element of, as far as we know, she is literally the only girl he has dated before. She got to hold hands with him for his first time, for instance. I do wonder if this is him wanting to do things proper and take their time, or if he just also would like to do the cutesy date stuff with her because it’d be a first for him.
That’s good because he isn’t being treated as one right now. His girlfriend just want to have good time with him doing something she recently discovered she enjoys.
The exact rationale might not matter as much as the possibility that she’ll regret it – which is hugely amplified if she’s drunk.
Or at least the chance that she wouldn’t stop before doing something she’d regret is.
Joyce don’t do that to Joe. Don’t set up a situation where you want sex and Joe feels like he has to say no because you’re drunk but because you’re drunk you get upset when he says no that he doesn’t want you.
At least moderate. There was one party where a friend of mine thought he was doing shots with me, but was actually going around the room doing shots with everyone, one at a time. He then tried to eat another friend’s ankle. There also the time I purposefully sliced my hand open to “prove a point” to someone
To be honest, I was kinda shocked that the last storyline was just “Joyce takes Dorothy out for some underage drinking, they have a good time, the end.”
She doesn’t think it’s always harmless fun though, she’s does she? Like, in this specific comment she makes a comment about getting drugged and almost stabbed and says that happens “sometimes”.
He hears the plan yesterday. Today he suggests “Hey let’s go on a date ourselves instead.” When she doubles down on the keg party, then he brings up that she already got drunk as a second objection.
It’s not clear why he’s opposed, but it’s pretty clear he doesn’t like the idea.
Why can nobody imagine a scenario where they are drunk making out and Joyce wants sexy time. At which point Joe who is also drunk gently stops her looks lovely into her eyes and says “No Joyce not like this. I want our first time together to be special and romantic for both of us. Let’s wait.” Then Joyce so taken a back by how sweet and open he is being agrees then they cuddle for the rest of the night. The end 😌
See isn’t that much nicer then all the chaos everyone seems to can’t wait for?
That’s so sad because these character have already gone through so much. I personally have found it nice seeing Joyce do better and start to grow as well as really try to heal from all the past trauma. Sure I can see why people are seeing Joyce suddenly go from 0 to 100 can be alarming but it really was a long build up to it. Plus she is doing this surround by loving and supportive friends who won’t let her get hurt. We should just sit back and enjoy watching Joyce/Joe discover themselves and each other in a safe healthy way. Is that so much to ask? 🤦
Joe wants her so bad he can taste it, and he wants the dating and the romance and when did this happen he wonders. He wants to hold hands with her. He confessed via making a drawing of her, come on, he’s discovered he’s such a softie??
And it doesn’t mean this side of Joyce doesn’t turn him on as hell. GOD HE SO WANTS HER, that’s a face of thirst. It just has to be super confusing. And appealing a ton to the side of him that’s whispering “yeah see, sex is all you’re good for.”
That’s the way it was with me and my fiancée. After meeting on eHarmony I was willing to play “The Dating Game”, but – as she put it – with both of us on the far side of 65, it would be better to play “Beat the Clock”.
I don’t think she (thinks she)’s too cool for dating; I think she’s in too much a hurry for it. They’ve had a date (kind of), broken up, reconciled, gotten to know each other better, now sex has reached the top of the list — time to go for it!
Just picturing the rest of the cast constantly call Becky’s jug a keg and Joe going “Not a keg” while wearing a waistcoat a la Janet from The Good Place.
(ISTR reading nobody in Australia actually drinks Fosters, or Casltemaine XXXX, or any other lager that the Northern Hemisphere has even heard of, but if I googled what Australians actually drink and used that, other non-Australians would have to also google to understand the joke.)
An American with a Midwestern accent would also say it that way. Or at least, every American I’ve ever met who had a Midwestern accent. Which is like 90% of the Americans I’ve ever met.
To be honest, I think I would have been a bit concerned for someone who’d tried alcohol the first time and immediately wanted another party the next night. Especially with them both on weeknights.
“alcohol is fun. Let’s do it every day” can turn into a problem pretty quickly.
Sadly for some people alcohol feels _fantastic_. Things don’t go well for those people, unless they recognize the danger and decide that drinking isn’t for them.
I know a very smart young lady who loves pubs, night clubs, dancing and beer, but has come to the conclusion she needs to leave out the beer (or alcohol of any kind). Apparently having just one or two brings only frustration, and after the third she won’t stop any time soon. This is how I understand it, at least.
I suddenly realized they are all making a lot of assumptions about that jug. Dina would be quite within her rights to say “pardon me, but that is my stolen jug of ‘hooch’ and I have not yet decided what to do with it.”
Fun fact, if you haw a two-ball Newton’s cradle, and you drop the balls from each end so they swing together, when they meet in the middle, they immediately rebound apart almost as quickly as they came together.
They then slow and drop back together again, only to bounce apart once more. Repeat, gradually losing speed, until they finally come to a stop hanging together in the middle.
I don’t know how far this metaphor can be stretched.
A double date with Walky and Dorothy, that Mike shows up at. He’s still dead, but he came back from the afterlife just to both fuck with Walky, and punch Joe in the face, a la Goku in the Buu saga
Ooo, yeah, nice little tension getting set up here. Could be interesting, though awfully fraught.
Prediction:
It seems to me that the likely conclusion is Drunk Joyce wants to fool around and Joe is like nah, but has to confront that it’s about his own willingness, not hers. Could be Drunk Joyce tries to pressure him a lil bit too, which she would be horrified over the next day.
Buckle up, we had one better-than-expected drinking episode, we’re due for a oh-no-that-was-way-worse one as Joyce learns the downside of impeded judgment. The silver lining is that it’ll make Joe less scared of ruining her and feel like less of a sex monster, so there might be an opportunity to grow together after, but methinks we’re setting up for a rough experience.
Since we’re not getting an explanation from the source, I have made one up done some research:
When a woman is ready for a date/getting drunk together/or maybe sex in the future sometime… her arms will inflate and elongate until they are twice the length of her body. If Joe’s sleeves are still too long, then Joyce’s arms haven’t fully inflated and she should slow down because going on a date when your body isn’t ready can be dangerous.
I’m reading this as Joyce wants to lower her inhibitions using alcohol before having sex. That’s a really bad idea. Joe wants to do date related things and that would be a much better way and a much better path to getting pantsy
Can’t tell if Joe is worried people will think he’s a corrupting influence with the new Joyce, or worried he’s been a corrupting influence with her, or simply worried she’s not what he saw in her anymore.
Joe is trying SO HARD to live up to his idea of what The Perfect Boyfriend (TM) is supposed to be. His ideal was formed (in large part) by the ongoing crush on Joyce that he has had, however, so the ideal he is trying to live up to is actually Joyce’s Perfect Boyfriend. And since he and Joyce haven’t fully discussed what that actually means… and since Joyce herself likely doesn’t yet have a complete definition herself… then what Joe is actually doing is trying to be Joe’s Assumption Of What Joyce’s Perfect Boyfriend Must Be Like (TM). He hasn’t fully accounted for the fact that, in the midst of his own changing, Joyce is changing too. He was looking to her as a stabilizing force while he tried to change himself. Meanwhile, she is changing just as much, and that means she isn’t the stable ground he wants to see her as. I feel for both of them.
Okay, so big problem that I don’t see anybody mentioning, Joyce is not old enough to drink, so if she is caught drinking by anybody on campus, or by somebody who WILL tell on her, because there are people in her building that will, she could get kicked out of school.
Hopefully Joe is smart enough to either defuse the situation or at least recommends doing it somewhere they won’t be get caught by somebody.
Who’s gonna tattle on her? You? Nobody except Mary would give a fuck, and she’s not gonna tell anyone except maybe Ruth, who would most likely just chaperone the group to keep them from getting too ridiculous.
Hopefully Joe is smart enough to either defuse the situation or at least recommends doing it somewhere they won’t be get caught by somebody.
If they get caught Joyce could get kicked out of college for underaged drinking…
Dang it, it told me me the other comment couldn’t be posted because it was already said, so I wrote thing one and then it shows the first comment was posted…
Joyce has been cool Joyce for less than 24 hrs, I think maybe we should pump the brakes on the breakup talk. This is new and exciting for her and not indicative of a massive change in permanent personality, just an opening of doors.
Joe has inner demons which are trying to scare him which sound like half the comment section lol, but he still likes her. He’s more conflicted than he’s ever been I think. If this leads to a breakup after less than 48 hours, the relationship was doomed from the outset and I’ll be disappointed in both of them because the message it sends to both is that Joyce can’t go off script and that Joe is a corrupting influence, and I don’t think either of them need to internalize that any more than they have.
So– Joyce gets drunk, tries to do sex things with Joe, he (quite reasonably and gently) tries to talk her down, she gets mad and temporarily breaks up with him, which causes all her friends to either A) take her side and treat Joe like shit, or B) quite reasonably point out that she’s an idiot. Did I guess the plot for the rest of this book?
Honestly I have never got this whole “getting drunk is fun”. You spend a lot of money into (mostly) nasty-tasting beverages just so you can surrender your common sense for a while? Potentially doing something stupid and damaging to self or others while in a stupor? Then you get a splitting headache? And if you do it often enough you become a slave for life to it, then die a grotesquely painful and gross death well before your time?
Yeah, I don’t see it. And yeah, I’ve tried it enough times to form an informed opinion.
The trick is to find drinks you do enjoy the taste of, and if that’s nothing, then don’t do it (or if you still want to get drunk you can drink vodka, good vodka tastes like nothing).
Alcohol reduces all inhibitions, not just common sense. It also reduces fear, anxiety, lack of confidence, shyness, self-critique, and conformism. So yes, you’re a bit dumber, but you’re also braver, more confident, more outgoing, you love yourself more, and you express yourself more. Lots of uptight people manage to tell their loved ones they love them once they’re drunk. Of course they then get high on emotional openness and they start professing their love to acquiantances, strangers, lampposts, and eventually their bed, but it is still an improvement to their normal state of being.
Oh and the damage to yourself? If you hate life or yourself enough, that sounds like an upside. Same for the long term consequences. If you dread every day of your life, then being told that drinking takes 20 years off of your life sounds like an upside.
If you don’t want people to be self-destructive, then you’re better off improving their lives than trying to explain to them that their behaviour is self-destructive. Believe me, they know. That’s the entire point.
I hear this argument but… if they need to literally intoxicate themselves in order to do these things, is it truly they? If behaving in that way is truly a boon, it seems to me that they should be working on healthy ways to develop that, rather than developing a dangerous habit.
Same for the “hate yourself” bit. Those people need help and not to off themselves. And truly, if that’s what they ultimately want, well I’m not going to get in the middle, but surely there are ways that are faster, more humane, and less catastrophically damaging to others (taking into account that most alcohol-related eaths occur from traffic accidents and involve people other than the drinker).
There’s a pretty massive leap from “likes going out for a drink with their friends” to “dying a grotesquely painful and gross death well before your time”.
I enjoy how it helps me relax in a way I strugle to do in social situations without it. I’m more likely to be open. I’m more likely to dance. I find the conversation at a pub after about two pints to generally be good fun.
Is it the only way of having fun? No. Do I drink by myself? Never, I don’t see the point. But “I don’t need alcohol to have fun” tends to register to me as a complaint on the same level as “I don’t see why you play sports on your games console when you could go out and do it in real life”.
Also, playing sports on your game console is better because you’re never gonna see a professional basketball person run in a little circle or deliberately shoot at their own basket in the middle of a real-world championship. Or witness a NASCAR driver go the wrong direction on purpose to wreck every other driver and then solo the race without competition. Or see the Pittsburgh Steelers clip through the walls of the stadium one by one before the ball even moves.
Sports games generate a ton of waste (go to any shop that buys games and are the deluge), and they’re released on an extremely predatory model (you don’t need to spend $80 a year on the exact same game, you fucking marks), but at least they can be funny.
Meh. I used to raid my parents liquor cabinet in the pandemic at midnight pre-medication. I men it definitely wasn’t for healthy reasons but it was definitely fun just seeing how weird everything would get. I’m pretty glad my drunkest moments were in my kitchen alone lol. You don’t really get the splitting headache part when you’re younger unless you really overdo it, even after really pushing my limits the worst I ever got the next day was nauseous. Also while I can never even smell white rum again without gagging, I actually prefer how sweet drinks taste with alcohol in them. If I could get a cocktail that tastes like alcohol without the effects I would. Fermentation is yummy and bitterness goes well with sweet, sue me. I eat raw bread dough too.
You can keep that attitude I guess, I mean not drinking is physically healthier and idk if you have some sort of past with the subject so I’m sorry if I’m being insensitive. It’s just not entirely accurate and kinda judgemental
Drinking alone is inherently destructive. Social drinking in moderation is the only even remotely worth while use of alcohol. It’s a shitty recreational drug.
Hard disagree.
Alcohol doesn’t function differently when you’re alone or with people.
And drinking with people means being around drunk people. Either your friends or other people. Being around drunk people sucks, even when you’re drunk.
I’ll stick to my one or two drinks alone with the TV over drinking at a party. Every time.
It doesn’t taste terrible to everyone. Not everyone has the same experience as you. “If you do it often enough you become a slave to it for life” huge eyeroll. sure thing, chick tract.
It’s adorable to see Joyce wanting to share all her new experiences with Joe while he wants to live romantic moments with her. But the chance to see Becky and Dina drunk… Which side of their personalities will alcohol accentuate? I absolutely want to see it!
I mean, as long as it’s in a controlled environment, I guess it’s okay for Joyce to get drunk. That being said, I do kinda worry about what way this is going for her…
She’s running on the rails as if none of her actions have consequences and that any changing she does is good. Before, the only “consequence” was that God would be unhappy with her; without that, she’s not seeing any consequences. When she said “fuck” for the first time – her response was, “What was I ever worried about?” And suddenly she’s swearing like a sailor and looking ridiculous. To drinking – “Sometimes you get drugged, but sometimes it’s fun!” With sex – “And my boyfriend is TOTALLY going to do sex things to me!” as if it’s nothing. Without even talking to Joe about it.
When Jennifer drank, she *knew* what the consequences would be. Same as Ruth. Same as Dorothy. Joyce is mostly ignorant, and looks like she’s signing herself up for Young Alcoholics. When Walky and Dorothy, or Sal and Danny have sex, they *know* what the risks are and what the consequences might be. Joyce might be vaguely aware of them, but is she really? She *literally* just ‘did laundry’ for the first time like less than a week ago.
I mean, this is Joe. Has it crossed her mind once that they might want to get screened for any STDs? That’s what any responsible person does. Is she aware that birth control isn’t 100% effective and she might have to make a choice she’s not ready for? I’m sure Dorothy and Sal have considered that. Becoming an athiest doesn’t immediately mean that someone is suddenly OK with the idea of having an abortion. It’s not that simple.
Growing up this way, you’re taught that “morals come from God, and people who don’t have God, just do whatever they feel like, because they don’t have that moral compass.” But everyone has a conscience, everyone has a moral compass, everyone thinks and considers the consequences of their actions. Hell, that’s exactly why Joe *isn’t* the womanizing philanderer he was in the beginning; because he knows that acting that way was wrong. And he learned that because he got hit hard with the consequences.
I’m hoping that Joyce reels herself back a little instead of rushing headfirst into the unknown, because life’s going to slap her hard back, too.
She did a fun thing with one friend and now wants to do that fun thing with her boyfriend. She’s got drunk once. To go from that to “she looks like she’s signing up for Young Alcoholics” is a reach so huge Reed Richards would struggle to make it.
(He has stretchy arms, you see)
And yes, she swore for the first time and is now overdoing it. This is a drama/comedy strip and it is amusing. And she’s been doing it for all of 5 minutes.
She’s maybe being a bit obnoxious in how she’s abandoned some of her pre-conceived notions… she was one of THOSE sorts of atheists for a bit… but that’s it. She’s not gone “God isn’t real, therefore all morality is pointless”. She’s not gone “sex before marriage is fine therefore I am going to have sex with my entire class DURING class.” She’s got got drunk once (with the partial aim of cheering up her stressed best friend) and isn’t now nursing a hip flask to get her through the day. None of her current behaviour requires life to “slap her back hard”.
I will not deny the possibility of this happening to Joyce, if only because that would demonstrate one of the most important morals of her story.
For Joyce’s former cult to mistake religion, excessive restriction and threat of excessive punishment as parenting and guidance was a huge mistake from the very get-go, and these are the consequences.
Joyce will wrongfully shoulder the burden of her former group’s repeated mistakes as she continues to break her chains, growing and acting with autonomy for basically the very first time in her entire life.
Not everybody or we wouldn’t have serial killers. It’s funny I use to drink and have sex as a young adult. I was never raised to follow any religion and just need things as a normal part of growing up. And guess what? I am in my 30’s now and I don’t have any regrets. I am not an alcoholic nor did I ever get an STD or have a baby. Wild huh?
Just curious: Why is everyone so very worried about Joyce getting drunk around a group of trusted friends, but not expressing the same worry for any of the other people involved? Becky also grew up homeschooled, we can surmise that Dina wasn’t invited to a lot of parties from the things she’s said about how she grew up, it’s very likely that this is a new(ish) experience for all of them. Hell, even Joe might be new to drinking (I don’t think so, but idk if we know for sure).
Just surprised that with all the pearl-clutching, everyone seems laser focused on Joyce. IDK, makes all the concern sound like a smoke screen for just not liking it when Joyce does something new and maybe has a good time.
I do have to keep reminding myself that social drinking in US colleges is different from most of the rest the world so Joyce and co having a drink is always going to be different from a social acceptance and legal POV than in other countries. If it were the UK then I’d definitely have expected Joe to have drunk before now (didn’t Walkyverse Joe go to the pub with Jason?) but adult-but-not-allowed-alcohol Joe here might not?
The drinking has also got mixed in with “concent” to create particularly passionate opinions, where Joyce saying “I’d like to get drunk with my boyfriend” seems to have turned in to an idea that Joyce is going to get wasted, demand Joe have sex with her, and then feel horrible about it the next day and tell Joe that it was all a mistake and they should have never had sex ever!
Joe has drunk, early in the comic he has a hangover during class because of it. He reasoned that if he is of legal age to die for his country then he can get a little slouched.
@Nymph A lot of people gets up in arms about Joyce’s friend not respecting her autonomy and “infantilizing” her but now that she is actively trying to expand that autonomy now a lot of people seems to have issues with that.
I think there’s a little reasonable concern about “I got drunk last night. It was great. I want to do it again tonight.” Especially with both of those being weeknights.
It’s only the start of a pattern, but “Need to get drunk again right away” is different than “I’d like to do it again sometime”.
That’s true, although Becky is the one who initially suggested it, and she’s already grumpy about missing out the first night. It would probably more dangerous for Joyce’s health NOT to go.
Joe is probably concerned about Joyce. She realizes she said the word fuck and almost immediately says she needs to remind herself to put it in a phrase. She also has a history of going overboard with new things like when she decided she was an atheist and immediately that became her whole personality. I’d be concerned too as it’s an indication she is inclined to become a non-stop cursing like a sailor girl whose personality is getting drunk and having sex. That’s not the Joyce he fell for. It’s a very concerning for someone you care about to suddenly have such a major personality change.
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would that mean Carla has to do JOE’S make-up too
He would look fantastic, tbh
Carla applies Joe’s makeup; Booster takes very careful notes.
OK I need this plot
*plays “Paralyzer” by Finger Eleven on hacked muzak*
Joe is basically like Dorothy, in that Joyce finds both of them attractive and would do laundry and get drunk with.
Dumbing of Age Book 14: It Doesn’t Always Have to End With Some Jerk Drugging You and You Stabbing His Face! That’s Only Sometimes!
I really do not *want* to be right about that making a comeback during their initial attempts at sexy time….
But that shadow is VERY Fore’ed right now.
“I’d like to get drunk with you” is honestly a weirdly sweet thing to say to someone.
Unless you’re saying it to Jennifer.
Or Ruth.
Or Jennifer saying it to Ruth.
I think what makes it sweet is, at least in the way Joyce means it, conveys that you trust them to be around you while in a state that is compromised and vulnerable. You trust that they wouldn’t take advantage of your inebriation to do things you wouldn’t be okay with. As such, I don’t think you need the qualifier that it wouldn’t be sweet to say to some people, since it wouldn’t be *said* to those people in the first place.
Granted, there are other contexts where one might say that line that are rather less sweet, I’ve had people express a desire to get drunk with me specifically because they know I don’t drink and they are curious what I would be like if I ever did, so it’s less about trusting me to be around them while they are vulnerable, but rather wanting to see what I’m like when I am (although phrasing it like that sounds way more predatory than it is, it’s usually just curiosity and amusement driving them rather than anything malicious).
I still don’t think Joe is digging the new Joyce.
Yeah, she’s kinda sucking the romance out of things, i doubt joe wanted her drunk for their first time
She can get drunk without them having sex.
She just wants to have some fun. Girls just want to have fun!
Yes… because drunken people are famously rational and would accept rejection of sexual advances by a sober partner who actually has a healthy understanding of ‘consent’, especially if said drunken partner has a healthy but extremely repressed libido and has finally decided to unwind said repression.
Joe is already on record with this… “Was she underage? Was she drunk? Was she crying?” when chastising Danny for not ‘casual banging’ Billie that one time she came to interview him for the Amazi-Girl story.
With all of the growth his character has experienced, one would be hard-pressed to be able to paint Joe as suddenly having LESS care about consent – even moreso now that this isn’t some casual ‘consenting-adults’ hookup – this is Joyce, someone for whom he has legitimate feelings.
In my own relationships I have a strict Only-Sober policy when it comes to ‘sexy shenanigans’, and only then, after an explicit verbal agreement before any alcohol is consumed would I agree to anything like that (say, for instance, they would like to ‘see what “it” is like when drunk/buzzed), and even then, I will still require myself to be sober (I am a very infrequent drinker, so it’s not really a sacrifice for me) in case the refs need to call a flag on the play.
That, and it’s pretty obvious that Joyce, at this point, is acting in a more ‘performative rebellion’ way, than being her genuine untethered self – which Joe will likely call her on when they’re in private again – which, itself will likely lead to a heated exchange between the two of them over when future physical intimacy will actually take place.
I get that but… this isn’t a stranger. Joyce clearly wants to have sex with him. She has said so multiple times whilst completely sober. If she has a bit to drink and starts coming on to him, Joe really hasn’t got to worry about consent. She’s given it. (Unless she is completely smashed, obviously.)
Now, he might not want to have sex with someone who is drunk for other reasons. And that’s fine. But if it’s just Joyce using alcohol to get over an anxiety issue, then as long as they’ve had a chat beforehand, I don’t see the issue.
She’s said it, but always in a futury way, not in a “I’m really okay with it any time now” way. She’d definitely interested, but not necessarily really ready. And making that move while drunk would be questionable.
If they have a chat beforehand, explicitly agreeing they’re going to have sex after the party once she’s drunk, that’s a different story, though still uncomfortable.
Joe especially is going to be thinking of Liz and how she backed off at the last moment, despite seeming enthusiastic before and worrying that a drunk Joyce will feel the same way, but not stop because of the drunkenness.
I do get that. I’m just kinda disagreeing with the idea that any sex with someone who’s had a drink is “uncomfortable”. There’s a whole lot of space to get to before “completely smashed”, and I don’t agree that someone loses all agency the moment they’ve had a sip. Would having sex with someone who has taken medical cannabis also be uncomfortable.
It’s understandable for Joe to be thinking about Liz (if he is), but this isn’t remotely the same situation. He didn’t know Liz. He does know Joyce. He knows what Joyce wants. Joyce is initiating all these actions herself. She isn’t being pressured by anyone. She is actively choosing to get drunk.surrounded by people she trusts with full knowledge of what might happen.
(Now, if it turns out that Joe has an issue with drink for other reasons, that’s fair enough. Maybe his dad is an alcoholic? Maybe he worries that his large sexual appetite might turn in to a large alcohol appetite. Have we ever been told Joe’s opinion on drink?)
Joy is serious about fitness / body building. Alcohol depresses testosterone levels in men (and elevates them in women). I doubt Joe drinks more than a single social beer now and then possibly.
I agree about any sex when drunk. Nothing really wrong with it.
It’s more problematic when it’s your first time with someone. And even more so when it’s their first time at all. Especially if you haven’t explicitly talked about it before.
That said, some people even here put too much focus on the process around consent. The important thing is that everyone is actually willing and especially in the case of alcohol, not regretting it once they’re sober again. The process of getting explicit sober consent is just a clear way of ensuring this. If you go ahead without that, you need to be sure you’re right. If you are right, it doesn’t matter that you skipped some steps, everyone’s still happy.
But early on, it’s much harder to be sure.
Needing to get drunk for sexy times is a terrible habit to cultivate, and all too common. A bit of alcohol in good company can be pleasant, but ”getting drunk is fun” is a big red flag for me. Alcohol is a very dangerous drug, and usually not worth the health effects and other ways it’s bad for you.
(Replying to both comments)
Joe is also 18, and they’re pretty good at burning the candle at both ends.
And yeah, having to get drunk every time to have sex would be a terrible habit to cultivate, but Joyce has been drunk once and had sex zero times. It’s probably a bit too early to catastophise about that.
Getting drunk can be fun though? Like, it’s possible to engage in things in moderation.
Yiiiikes. That’s a lot of mileage you got out of completely misunderstanding what I said:
“She can get drunk without them having sex.”
As in, this is a possibility. Plenty of people drink without having sex as a result. The two outcomes are not linked.
I’m not sure where you read any conversation at ALL about consent into that, especially:
“With all of the growth his character has experienced, one would be hard-pressed to be able to paint Joe as suddenly having LESS care about consent-”
Like… go up and point to me where in those 8 words I said anything even remotely like that?? Or where I asked you to tell me your personal standards for when you’ll personally bang someone?
Plenty of drunk people remain rational enough to accept a “no”, there are levels to getting drunk and people are individuals. Before you twist this as hard as you twisted the last thing: No, I am not trying to say that Joe should have sex with a drunk Joyce. I am saying it’s super SUPER weird this became a consent conversation when I was talking about it being possible to drink without then having sex. Like the literal correlation between the two things.
Wild thing to come back to. Absolutely wild.
So you admit to having had sex with Hitler?
Go back and read it again.
It was a threesome with Hitler and Stalin.
Okay this cracked me up, thank you
I won’t get in to the other points, but I want to address the part about “performative rebellion”. I’m rather certain that’s not what she’s been doing. There’s a huge difference between performative rebellion (“I know this is wrong but I’m doing it anyway because I want to be seen as one of the cool people”) and trying to get over your own hangups, or straight up indoctrination (“I know this isn’t wrong, but it still feels wrong because I was taught it was, I need get used to doing the thing so I can get over that incorrect feeling”).
Joyce is trying to figure out what her “normal, untethered self” is. She dropped an F bomb, realized it wasn’t going to kill her, realized she didn’t feel dirty for it, then said it several more times while riding the high of discovering one more aspect of normal life that she could participate in and feel more normal because of. Those F bombs weren’t performative, they were celebratory.
I don’t think they’ll have drunk sex. It might get close, but I’ll be shocked if it happens that way. Also, Joe is clearly in love, and it’s clear to me that he’s excited to be with her during this time of personal growth for her. It’s like… his old persona essentially said he’d turn her into a “10” with his d*ck; but really he had it backward. Instead he’s lucky enough to be with her and follow her journey of self-acceptance, and in the end he gets to have a relationship with the new Joyce: open and free and able to be her true self without all the lies she was indoctrinated with.
(This might come across as super pro-Joe, but I while I think he’s improving, I’ve still my eye on him. No backsliding, mister 🤨
You express everything I was also thinking so elegantly! Bravo sir 👏
I don’t think it’s performative rebellion, at least not in the “I still think it’s bad” sense, but it’s still at least partly performative. In the sense that it’s an exaggerated reaction to breaking out of her old limits.
This can be a good stage, but it’s still one where it’s easy to go farther than you really want.
nah this is romance. maybe he doesnt like it but thats not her fault
Agreed! This is a show of trust, a want to share something fun with him, and some hang out time with friends together. That’s absolutely romance.
I’m choosing to read it as Joe being generally trepidatious about being in a committed romantic relationship
She’s hitting him right in the insecurities and not picking up on him trying to communicate that in a low-key way
Don’t try to communicate “in a low key way” with someone who’s autistic. Just tell us what you want to communicate, we tend to be bad at that guessing game mind reading bullshit.
I don’t disagree, but some shit is hard to say when it involves personal vulnerability you didn’t necessarily even know you had until that moment. He’s also trying not to say anything that’s going to discourage/hurt Joyce, or (and this is an unreasonable fear, but it’s there) accidentally talk Joyce out of being with him. He’s working on it.
Hell, it’s true generally.
Say what you mean.
My partner and I are not autistic — but this sort of thing might end our marriage.
If you try to communicate in a low-key way you’ll end up with no one but yourself to blame if people don’t pick it up.
I don’t think it’s inherently wrong to ask for what you want without making a big deal about it on the first ask, as Joe is doing here. It’s only a problem if Joe fails to follow up, or follows up in an angry/blaming manner.
I don’t get where people are getting all these negatives reading of the situation here. Joyce is having a good time and I really don’t see Joe being overly against anything she is saying. It confuses me.
Because we can all see the train wreck coming and Joyce has her airpods in.
He’s stuttering and shifty glancing, and she’s not listening to the apparent concerns he’s trying to express, albeit he’s doing a terrible job of getting his foot out of his mouth about things.
Joe is quickly approaching a brake check while joyce is chucking more coal into the engine.
Then add in the dumpster fire of her probably having a drunken panic attack relating to being roofied and nearly sexually assaulted, with Joe’s issues concerning being a monster undeserving of love….
Exactly. Poor Joe.
I sorta agree. While unintentionally, Joyce is definitely sending the wrong vibes. The guy wants to feel like a boyfriend, not like Joyce’s walk on the wild side. Remember Boosters reaction shen he realized that like it or not, he’ll be seen not as much as a person, but as a chapter of Joyce’s journey of self discovery?
Doesn’t Booster go with they?
Yep. Booster’s pronouns are they/them!
Yep, correct. This one’s on me.
You don’t see the concern in his facial expressions?
No, I sincerely do not.
I don’t. It looks like mild puzzlement to me.
Yep!
Theres always people in this comment section that have some white-hot takes. I generously assume they’re too young to have had a real relationship, the alternative is a bit… incel-y. Like relationships are all some drama movie, you can’t just chill with a partner and have fun.
I don’t think this is a fair take. Fictional media frequently portrays romantic relationships as all-drama no-chill. It’s fair to guess/assume that fictional romances will involve drama on any given day, even if you know that’s not how real life works.
Plus “Damn You Willis” has set precedent.
Exactly. Expecting drama here is being genre/fandom-savvy!
I’m with you on this, tbh.
I’m with both of you on this as well. We must join forces :3
We will be invincible!
With our powers combine we will protect this Joyce/Joe ship!
I don’t think so either. And neither am I honestly.
So are we heading up to the “Is it ethical to have first time sex with someone who has been drinking?” discussion in a dozen or so strips?
We already know that Joe doesn’t, at least. I think his criteria early on when scolding Danny for being kind of patronizing about not having sex with Billie (since Danny left out that it was because of Amazi-Girl) was that if a gal isn’t “drunk or crying”, that they are capable of granting informed consent. And that was Joe in a more morally dubious time, so if he wasn’t keen on the idea of sex with a drunk girl before, he sure as shit wouldn’t be now.
Drinking and drunk are not synonymous.
There’s ‘I’m a little tipsy, but still have my wits about me’ where you’re inhibitions are lowered but not gone. Useful for someone who wants sex but has a lot of inhibitions due to how they were raised, and wants to lower said inhibitions down a bit.
Now, it’s probably safer, especially with strangers to have a black and white line; but I’m not sure Joe meant it that way.
Personally, I can’t have drugs and sex. I get motion sick.
”Useful” as it may seem, it’s a terrible idea. This leads to not being able to have sex without alcohol.
It can lead to. Or more likely, you’re already there and thus not able to have sex at all.
But it can also just be enough to get over the hump the first time with someone and then be okay to continue.
I was thinking moreso the first time or the first time with a new partner.
Benzos could be used/abused the same way.
As could cannabis.
Some people are really high strung about this sort of thing.
See, what I worry about is a bit later when the inhibitions shrug off the alcohol and begin shouting “now you’ve done it!”
Its not unethical if they made their intentions clear before they got drunk, it is kind of a let down. Like “you wouldn’t have me unless you’re all sloppy and stupid” isn’t the best feeling imho
Consent isn’t consent if it can’t be withdrawn. And alcohol makes that problematic. (ESPECIALLY if a first time situation is on the horizon.)
New Joe is doing pretty damn well on his ethics tests.
Hard disagree on the first part of that, it’s definitely possible to give consent ahead of time with the understanding that you won’t be in a position to withdraw it later. In a BDSM context, that’s something that should only be done with the understanding that somebody is monitoring you carefully to be sure you’re not in danger, but pre-consent to a situation and playing without a safeword is absolutely a kink some people have.
Definitely a VERY BAD IDEA for a first time situation, though. It’s expert-level.
Nobody in the comments seems to be recognising the difference between is it ethical, and is it a good idea.
Joyce has given pretty clear consent while sober, I don’t think it would be unethical if they got drunk and did sex things.
I do think it would be a bad idea, Joe seems to be anxious about it, Joyce seems to be rushing into things out of a sense of rebellion, it is risky that it might make either of them feel bad during or after.
But neither of them are mind readers and with the info each of them has, it wouldn’t make either of them a moral terror if it happened, just might cause bad feelings.
Joyce has absolutely not given consent. Not that you really can give future consent, at least not without being a lot more explicit than she’s been so far.
Neither of them would be a moral terror if they had drunk sex, but it could absolutely screw up the relationship. Probably wouldn’t, because I think Joyce will wind up being alright with it, but it’s risky.
“Joyce has given pretty clear consent while sober”
Definitely disagree with this.
Yeah, she’s very obviously done nothing of the sort. She mentioned sex and then getting drunk, in separate sentences that didn’t connect to each other. If that’s “consent” to somebody, they belong on a list.
Joyce isn’t explicitely saying “I want to get drunk and then have sex with you”. That is definitely true. But Joyce has been fairly obvious that she finds Joe sexually attractive and would like to act on those feelings, once she learns how to cope with her own anxieties. So I also don’t think you can say that if the two of them have a couple of drinks and then she starts putting the moves on Joe that she has given no consent at all, is incapable of rationally giving it and that Joe should immediately demand she stop.
Granted, if her intention is “get drunk and have sex” rather than just “get drunk” they should definitely have a conversation about it first. But then where would the drama be?
“I also don’t think you can say [stuff]”
Yeah, and I didn’t. I didn’t even imply it. Are you drunk?
That was a general “you” rather than a specific “you”, so sorry if it came across as a direct response.
Not consent as in “the final word” just, if someone is against sex and then wants to have sex while drunk, you shouldn’t let their drunk self override their sober self. If someone while sober clearly wants to do sex with you, and then gets drunk and still wants to, thats a much more consensual situation
Agreed. Joyce has expressed desire, but that is not concent yet.
She didn’t press charges when a guy drugged and tried to rape her. I don’t think Joe is in much danger of Joyce going to the authorities after getting drunk and making a choice she later regrets.
What the hell has that got to do with it being right or wrong? That’s a deeply suspicious comment.
No, and any such charges would fail anyway. You have to be pretty solidly drunk to even get charges pressed and it almost certainly wouldn’t happen if she was initiating the sex – even drunkenly.
It could completely mess up her relationship with Joe if something like that happens though. Which it almost certainly won’t.
Yikessss
I believe it’s the regrets that Joe worries about.
^^^ this
Joe’s growing up
These two are in an interesting space.
Joe is probably kind of reluctant/anxious about sexual activity with Joyce, possibly moreso than she is, even. This makes sense given his particular damage, and also how important this all is to him.
But, I think there’s also the element of, as far as we know, she is literally the only girl he has dated before. She got to hold hands with him for his first time, for instance. I do wonder if this is him wanting to do things proper and take their time, or if he just also would like to do the cutesy date stuff with her because it’d be a first for him.
Joe does not like being an object
That’s good because he isn’t being treated as one right now. His girlfriend just want to have good time with him doing something she recently discovered she enjoys.
Maybe indoor golf carts or laser tag?
*go carts
Karts fuck I hate not having an edit button
TBH, I’d enjoy indoor golf carts more than I liked indoor go carts. 🙂
*go carts
If you check TVTropes for Stepford Smiler, Joyce is the trope image rn.
Not when I checked just now, she isn’t.
Did you look up at that ceiling when they said gullible was written there too? Clearly this was not literal
decides photoshoping the word gullible onto the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is too much effort.
I’ve never known what that word means, since it’s not in any dictionary.
Well, you can’t ask the same things from Dotty.
°⎵°
Joe, I need you to fuck Dorothy, that way I can watch both of you at the same time without the need for Walky!
I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s her actual ultimate fantasy.
Also I love that you made this comment with a gravatar who’s intent on cosplaying Freud
Turns out there’s a fanfic for that! (isn’t there always?)
https://archiveofourown.org/works/55752664
Either Joe’s going to talk her out of it, or go along and stay sober so he can keep Joyce from going too crazy.
I suspect he’s also remembering Sarah’s little sister and how she changed her mind mid-makeout
Does he also remember Liz saying the problem was that it should have been with someone she loved? Because I think Joe checks that box for Joyce.
“Nah but what if she doesn’t though!” – Joe’s mind demons, probably.
The exact rationale might not matter as much as the possibility that she’ll regret it – which is hugely amplified if she’s drunk.
Or at least the chance that she wouldn’t stop before doing something she’d regret is.
Jug party?
About to become jugs par– [gets shot]
Shots? Nah, they’re going for something larger. One handle at a time.
(apologies if that doesn’t translate? “handle” is antipodean for tankards)
I didn’t know and it’s beautiful. I’m grinning like a maniac, greetings from a fellow South Hemisperhe-ner
In America a handle of liquor is a half gallon (1.75 liter) bottle.
It’s also a card hand (from the Steely Dan song “Do It Again”). Sorry I’ll keep my ’70s references to myself from now on.
Okay so she does consider getting drunk with someone romantic, good to know
What? That’s not what this panel feels like at all
It feels like Joe’s like “oh but you already did this new thing w/ dotty”
and shes like, yeah, and I wanna do it with you too, cuz i like u, silly.
Hope that’s not something she learned from her parents, because we already know her TV options were limited.
I think she considers hanging out and having fun together romantic. Drinking is just a new hanging-out-and-having-fun activity.
Note that she isn’t ruling out the stabbing.
Because that’s only sometimes!
Joyce don’t do that to Joe. Don’t set up a situation where you want sex and Joe feels like he has to say no because you’re drunk but because you’re drunk you get upset when he says no that he doesn’t want you.
Good one
Can we please stop catastrophizing about the worst case scenarios for this (and any other) situation. It’s really starting to get irritating.
You mean there’s another possible response to college students drinking other than going full Chicken Little?
Is there? I dunno, every gathering with alcohol I was at had at least a moderate level of drama. Often not even involving me.
Oh no! Not a moderate level of drama! In this, my favourite webbed comic, Calming of Sage!
At least moderate. There was one party where a friend of mine thought he was doing shots with me, but was actually going around the room doing shots with everyone, one at a time. He then tried to eat another friend’s ankle. There also the time I purposefully sliced my hand open to “prove a point” to someone
But was there any drama?
Like, did you die, though?
To be honest, I was kinda shocked that the last storyline was just “Joyce takes Dorothy out for some underage drinking, they have a good time, the end.”
First hits free. Now that Joyce thinks booze is harmless fun, it’s time to hurt her with it.
She doesn’t think it’s always harmless fun though, she’s does she? Like, in this specific comment she makes a comment about getting drugged and almost stabbed and says that happens “sometimes”.
Not even in the dumbiverse is underage drinking a big deal.
You know how news works. We never heard about that one time when it didn’t go apoctalyptically wrong.
I think we’re partly doing so because of Joe’s reaction here, which is pretty obviously negative.
Obvious to you, maybe. He seems more or less neutral to me. Like, he’s just bringing up she already got drunk and that’s it.
He hears the plan yesterday. Today he suggests “Hey let’s go on a date ourselves instead.” When she doubles down on the keg party, then he brings up that she already got drunk as a second objection.
It’s not clear why he’s opposed, but it’s pretty clear he doesn’t like the idea.
Why can nobody imagine a scenario where they are drunk making out and Joyce wants sexy time. At which point Joe who is also drunk gently stops her looks lovely into her eyes and says “No Joyce not like this. I want our first time together to be special and romantic for both of us. Let’s wait.” Then Joyce so taken a back by how sweet and open he is being agrees then they cuddle for the rest of the night. The end 😌
See isn’t that much nicer then all the chaos everyone seems to can’t wait for?
I think people’s lives are getting too comfortable or something, so they want the worst possible outcomes in their fiction right now.
That’s so sad because these character have already gone through so much. I personally have found it nice seeing Joyce do better and start to grow as well as really try to heal from all the past trauma. Sure I can see why people are seeing Joyce suddenly go from 0 to 100 can be alarming but it really was a long build up to it. Plus she is doing this surround by loving and supportive friends who won’t let her get hurt. We should just sit back and enjoy watching Joyce/Joe discover themselves and each other in a safe healthy way. Is that so much to ask? 🤦
I think most people are more fearing the chaos than waiting eagerly for it.
Mostly because Damn You Willis.
S is for stabbing
That’s good enough for me
S is for stabbing
That’s good enough for me.
Oh, stabbing, stabbing, stabbing starts with S.
Hey Dina!
Have you heard the latest about Lokiceratops rangiformis?
Nice!
Joe wants her so bad he can taste it, and he wants the dating and the romance and when did this happen he wonders. He wants to hold hands with her. He confessed via making a drawing of her, come on, he’s discovered he’s such a softie??
And it doesn’t mean this side of Joyce doesn’t turn him on as hell. GOD HE SO WANTS HER, that’s a face of thirst. It just has to be super confusing. And appealing a ton to the side of him that’s whispering “yeah see, sex is all you’re good for.”
See, I’m seeing this as ‘Joe wants romance, and is getting annoyed at Joyce avoiding it.’
Hanging out and having fun with friends isn’t romantic? Huh, TIL I guess.
Not to me it isn’t, no.
Poor Joe, wants to do the cute couple stuff he’s missed out on but New Joyce is now too cool for.
That’s the way it was with me and my fiancée. After meeting on eHarmony I was willing to play “The Dating Game”, but – as she put it – with both of us on the far side of 65, it would be better to play “Beat the Clock”.
New cool Joyce may be too fast and too cool for new Joe
I don’t think she (thinks she)’s too cool for dating; I think she’s in too much a hurry for it. They’ve had a date (kind of), broken up, reconciled, gotten to know each other better, now sex has reached the top of the list — time to go for it!
Joyce, meet Lucy.
Just picturing the rest of the cast constantly call Becky’s jug a keg and Joe going “Not a keg” while wearing a waistcoat a la Janet from The Good Place.
Eventually Joe just brings an actual keg.
“THAT’S a keg??”
“Yes.”
“That’s so big! What are we even supposed to do with that after we’re done with it??”
“I’ll take care of it. The point is, that’s a keg.”
Can Joe do an Australian accent? I want him to say “That’s not a keg, this is a keg” in an Australian accent.
(Googles whether you can get Fosters in kegs. Yep!)
(ISTR reading nobody in Australia actually drinks Fosters, or Casltemaine XXXX, or any other lager that the Northern Hemisphere has even heard of, but if I googled what Australians actually drink and used that, other non-Australians would have to also google to understand the joke.)
I found out this is also true of Corona. The beer, not the virus.
I had no idea there was a difference.
Not only do I get that reference, I get its ancestor reference, too.
(plus i get the ‘i get that reference’ reference. ohgods where does this end?)
To an American ear, at least, I don’t think it’s possible to say “keg” with as much Australian accent as “knife.” That vowel won’t do the same thing.
An American faking a bad Australian accent would say “Kayg” (long A).
An American with a Midwestern accent would also say it that way. Or at least, every American I’ve ever met who had a Midwestern accent. Which is like 90% of the Americans I’ve ever met.
Ayg. Layg. Drayg. Emprayg. Reenayg. Stay-go-sore-iss.
“Emprayg” 👏👏👏
Becky gonna do keg stand with that jug anyway
Becky also wants to do keg stand with those jugs.
Why would she want to do a keg stand with Joyce’s jugs? [/Carla voice]
So she doesn’t get her feet in the beer?
Sounds like a standard college date to me!
To be honest, I think I would have been a bit concerned for someone who’d tried alcohol the first time and immediately wanted another party the next night. Especially with them both on weeknights.
“alcohol is fun. Let’s do it every day” can turn into a problem pretty quickly.
Yep, if alcohol is more fun than everything else you could do, then there’s something wrong with your everything else.
Sadly for some people alcohol feels _fantastic_. Things don’t go well for those people, unless they recognize the danger and decide that drinking isn’t for them.
I know a very smart young lady who loves pubs, night clubs, dancing and beer, but has come to the conclusion she needs to leave out the beer (or alcohol of any kind). Apparently having just one or two brings only frustration, and after the third she won’t stop any time soon. This is how I understand it, at least.
I would be worried if she wanted to go back to the bar, but I think this is more about the opportunity presenting itself.
I suddenly realized they are all making a lot of assumptions about that jug. Dina would be quite within her rights to say “pardon me, but that is my stolen jug of ‘hooch’ and I have not yet decided what to do with it.”
Joe and Joyce’s personality-pendulums are swinging in opposite directions… hopefully to meet together somewhere in the middle
I was gonna comment but this is actually it in a nutshell. I hope they converge again! And that they’ll make it through this…
Like one of those things with the five pendula that demonstrate conservation of momentum? I am having difficulty imagining it in this context.
Fun fact, if you haw a two-ball Newton’s cradle, and you drop the balls from each end so they swing together, when they meet in the middle, they immediately rebound apart almost as quickly as they came together.
They then slow and drop back together again, only to bounce apart once more. Repeat, gradually losing speed, until they finally come to a stop hanging together in the middle.
I don’t know how far this metaphor can be stretched.
They oughta have a date at Galasso’s. A good one, this time.
A double date with Walky and Dorothy, that Mike shows up at. He’s still dead, but he came back from the afterlife just to both fuck with Walky, and punch Joe in the face, a la Goku in the Buu saga
Get back on the horse, eh? Show that venue who is boss!
I’m not sure if Galasso has horse on the menu. If he does, that’s a big win for gay rights, though.
Aww yes, I support this.
And so she begins to assemble her harem!
Ooo, yeah, nice little tension getting set up here. Could be interesting, though awfully fraught.
Prediction:
It seems to me that the likely conclusion is Drunk Joyce wants to fool around and Joe is like nah, but has to confront that it’s about his own willingness, not hers. Could be Drunk Joyce tries to pressure him a lil bit too, which she would be horrified over the next day.
Buckle up, we had one better-than-expected drinking episode, we’re due for a oh-no-that-was-way-worse one as Joyce learns the downside of impeded judgment. The silver lining is that it’ll make Joe less scared of ruining her and feel like less of a sex monster, so there might be an opportunity to grow together after, but methinks we’re setting up for a rough experience.
More likely Joe is like “yes! but….”
I would agree that the next day will be interesting, no matter how this one runs.
My prediction: this leads to a breakup, no sex.
Alt-text: Does stabbing food with your fork count?
The fact that the sleeves of Joe’s coat are too long tells me that perhaps she’s going at this a little too fast.
?
I… what? What does sleeve length have to do with speed?
If you’re walking on your hands, they could trip you up.
Explain, fucker.
Since we’re not getting an explanation from the source, I have
made one updone some research:When a woman is ready for a date/getting drunk together/or maybe sex in the future sometime… her arms will inflate and elongate until they are twice the length of her body. If Joe’s sleeves are still too long, then Joyce’s arms haven’t fully inflated and she should slow down because going on a date when your body isn’t ready can be dangerous.
Can’t argue with science.
I’m reading this as Joyce wants to lower her inhibitions using alcohol before having sex. That’s a really bad idea. Joe wants to do date related things and that would be a much better way and a much better path to getting pantsy
Where are you taking that reading from? It’s just not in this strip.
I think Joe’s concerned about her inhibitions getting lowered. I’m not sure Joyce is thinking in those terms.
I think Joe is concerned that Joyce is already in an altered state and there will be backlash later.
I agree; as someone who once was a teenage girl awkward about sex using alcohol to lower inhibitions/anxiety.
hey how about you two sit down to talk boundaries and whatever you expect from the relationship, huh?
Getting drunk, two nights in a row?
Now that’s Joyce in College :P.
Joe: Wanna have some fu-
Joyce: -ck?
Joyce gets drunk, sees the meme, and spends the rest of the night asking Joe if he want some fuck.
Joe is not liking the 180 Joyce has pulled and it shows. ~<3
I hope Joyce realizes that he fell for her BEFORE she was “cool Joyce”
But he probably, in part, fell for her ability to change. Because he wanted to change, too.
This is probably why the strip is not called Well Thought Out Decision Making Processes of Age.
Best comment right here
Can’t tell if Joe is worried people will think he’s a corrupting influence with the new Joyce, or worried he’s been a corrupting influence with her, or simply worried she’s not what he saw in her anymore.
I mean, panel 4 is mildly terrifying.
Joe is trying SO HARD to live up to his idea of what The Perfect Boyfriend (TM) is supposed to be. His ideal was formed (in large part) by the ongoing crush on Joyce that he has had, however, so the ideal he is trying to live up to is actually Joyce’s Perfect Boyfriend. And since he and Joyce haven’t fully discussed what that actually means… and since Joyce herself likely doesn’t yet have a complete definition herself… then what Joe is actually doing is trying to be Joe’s Assumption Of What Joyce’s Perfect Boyfriend Must Be Like (TM). He hasn’t fully accounted for the fact that, in the midst of his own changing, Joyce is changing too. He was looking to her as a stabilizing force while he tried to change himself. Meanwhile, she is changing just as much, and that means she isn’t the stable ground he wants to see her as. I feel for both of them.
Okay, so big problem that I don’t see anybody mentioning, Joyce is not old enough to drink, so if she is caught drinking by anybody on campus, or by somebody who WILL tell on her, because there are people in her building that will, she could get kicked out of school.
Hopefully Joe is smart enough to either defuse the situation or at least recommends doing it somewhere they won’t be get caught by somebody.
Who is her RA these days? Is it still Ruth? Didn’t she already walk in on a party where half of the guests were drunk?
Who’s gonna tattle on her? You? Nobody except Mary would give a fuck, and she’s not gonna tell anyone except maybe Ruth, who would most likely just chaperone the group to keep them from getting too ridiculous.
Fuckin’ Hall monitor-ass take.
Boooo american drinking laws, boo boooo! Let adults drink!
Hopefully Joe is smart enough to either defuse the situation or at least recommends doing it somewhere they won’t be get caught by somebody.
If they get caught Joyce could get kicked out of college for underaged drinking…
Dang it, it told me me the other comment couldn’t be posted because it was already said, so I wrote thing one and then it shows the first comment was posted…
I have a spare photo of the Sistine Chapel I could sell you.
Joyce has been cool Joyce for less than 24 hrs, I think maybe we should pump the brakes on the breakup talk. This is new and exciting for her and not indicative of a massive change in permanent personality, just an opening of doors.
Joe has inner demons which are trying to scare him which sound like half the comment section lol, but he still likes her. He’s more conflicted than he’s ever been I think. If this leads to a breakup after less than 48 hours, the relationship was doomed from the outset and I’ll be disappointed in both of them because the message it sends to both is that Joyce can’t go off script and that Joe is a corrupting influence, and I don’t think either of them need to internalize that any more than they have.
48 hours of Joyce suddenly becoming cool*
So– Joyce gets drunk, tries to do sex things with Joe, he (quite reasonably and gently) tries to talk her down, she gets mad and temporarily breaks up with him, which causes all her friends to either A) take her side and treat Joe like shit, or B) quite reasonably point out that she’s an idiot. Did I guess the plot for the rest of this book?
Half her friends take her side, and the other half tell her she’s an idiot.
Honestly I have never got this whole “getting drunk is fun”. You spend a lot of money into (mostly) nasty-tasting beverages just so you can surrender your common sense for a while? Potentially doing something stupid and damaging to self or others while in a stupor? Then you get a splitting headache? And if you do it often enough you become a slave for life to it, then die a grotesquely painful and gross death well before your time?
Yeah, I don’t see it. And yeah, I’ve tried it enough times to form an informed opinion.
It’s fine, other people have enough self control to understand the fun part.
Speaking personally, I can have fun doing stupid and damaging stuff without needing to be drunk.
It always comes down to “needing” with these “conversations”, like people can’t imagine wanting to do something.
*takes a look at the world at large* Yeah, these “other people” you speak of don’t seem to be a vast majority. Cool that it works out for you, tho!
The trick is to find drinks you do enjoy the taste of, and if that’s nothing, then don’t do it (or if you still want to get drunk you can drink vodka, good vodka tastes like nothing).
Alcohol reduces all inhibitions, not just common sense. It also reduces fear, anxiety, lack of confidence, shyness, self-critique, and conformism. So yes, you’re a bit dumber, but you’re also braver, more confident, more outgoing, you love yourself more, and you express yourself more. Lots of uptight people manage to tell their loved ones they love them once they’re drunk. Of course they then get high on emotional openness and they start professing their love to acquiantances, strangers, lampposts, and eventually their bed, but it is still an improvement to their normal state of being.
Oh and the damage to yourself? If you hate life or yourself enough, that sounds like an upside. Same for the long term consequences. If you dread every day of your life, then being told that drinking takes 20 years off of your life sounds like an upside.
If you don’t want people to be self-destructive, then you’re better off improving their lives than trying to explain to them that their behaviour is self-destructive. Believe me, they know. That’s the entire point.
I agree with the second paragraph but then it took a worrying turn.
I hear this argument but… if they need to literally intoxicate themselves in order to do these things, is it truly they? If behaving in that way is truly a boon, it seems to me that they should be working on healthy ways to develop that, rather than developing a dangerous habit.
Same for the “hate yourself” bit. Those people need help and not to off themselves. And truly, if that’s what they ultimately want, well I’m not going to get in the middle, but surely there are ways that are faster, more humane, and less catastrophically damaging to others (taking into account that most alcohol-related eaths occur from traffic accidents and involve people other than the drinker).
There’s a pretty massive leap from “likes going out for a drink with their friends” to “dying a grotesquely painful and gross death well before your time”.
I enjoy how it helps me relax in a way I strugle to do in social situations without it. I’m more likely to be open. I’m more likely to dance. I find the conversation at a pub after about two pints to generally be good fun.
Is it the only way of having fun? No. Do I drink by myself? Never, I don’t see the point. But “I don’t need alcohol to have fun” tends to register to me as a complaint on the same level as “I don’t see why you play sports on your games console when you could go out and do it in real life”.
Also, playing sports on your game console is better because you’re never gonna see a professional basketball person run in a little circle or deliberately shoot at their own basket in the middle of a real-world championship. Or witness a NASCAR driver go the wrong direction on purpose to wreck every other driver and then solo the race without competition. Or see the Pittsburgh Steelers clip through the walls of the stadium one by one before the ball even moves.
Sports games generate a ton of waste (go to any shop that buys games and are the deluge), and they’re released on an extremely predatory model (you don’t need to spend $80 a year on the exact same game, you fucking marks), but at least they can be funny.
And *witness the deluge.
How the fuck did that get changed to “are”?
Note that I didn’t say “drinking”. All the things you mentioned, I do too, from time to time. I specifically say “getting drunk”.
Meh. I used to raid my parents liquor cabinet in the pandemic at midnight pre-medication. I men it definitely wasn’t for healthy reasons but it was definitely fun just seeing how weird everything would get. I’m pretty glad my drunkest moments were in my kitchen alone lol. You don’t really get the splitting headache part when you’re younger unless you really overdo it, even after really pushing my limits the worst I ever got the next day was nauseous. Also while I can never even smell white rum again without gagging, I actually prefer how sweet drinks taste with alcohol in them. If I could get a cocktail that tastes like alcohol without the effects I would. Fermentation is yummy and bitterness goes well with sweet, sue me. I eat raw bread dough too.
You can keep that attitude I guess, I mean not drinking is physically healthier and idk if you have some sort of past with the subject so I’m sorry if I’m being insensitive. It’s just not entirely accurate and kinda judgemental
Drinking alone is inherently destructive. Social drinking in moderation is the only even remotely worth while use of alcohol. It’s a shitty recreational drug.
You said, voicing your own opinion and not an absolute fact.
Hard disagree.
Alcohol doesn’t function differently when you’re alone or with people.
And drinking with people means being around drunk people. Either your friends or other people. Being around drunk people sucks, even when you’re drunk.
I’ll stick to my one or two drinks alone with the TV over drinking at a party. Every time.
Plus! No peer pressure.
It doesn’t taste terrible to everyone. Not everyone has the same experience as you. “If you do it often enough you become a slave to it for life” huge eyeroll. sure thing, chick tract.
Wait, are you honestly saying here “acoholism is a myth from fantaical christians”?
man, i’m worried about joyce… but im LOVING the way she’s drawn this arc. funny silly smile
Between Walky and Joe, we have two guys who want and enjoy the company of their girlfriends but are a little uncertain about the situation.
It’s adorable to see Joyce wanting to share all her new experiences with Joe while he wants to live romantic moments with her. But the chance to see Becky and Dina drunk… Which side of their personalities will alcohol accentuate? I absolutely want to see it!
I mean, as long as it’s in a controlled environment, I guess it’s okay for Joyce to get drunk. That being said, I do kinda worry about what way this is going for her…
Is Joyce wearing makeup btw? I swear her cheek blushies are pinker than usual. Maybe it’s the cold or just me being dumb
Is Joe realizing that the new Joyce might not be who he’s interested in?
oh hey
big sign of trust from joyce
Both aw and uh oh at the same time.
Uh aw?
Joyce now moves into Joe’s territory. And we will see how he handles being in that mode with somebody he’s afraid he’ll ruin.
I’m decently worried about Joyce.
She’s running on the rails as if none of her actions have consequences and that any changing she does is good. Before, the only “consequence” was that God would be unhappy with her; without that, she’s not seeing any consequences. When she said “fuck” for the first time – her response was, “What was I ever worried about?” And suddenly she’s swearing like a sailor and looking ridiculous. To drinking – “Sometimes you get drugged, but sometimes it’s fun!” With sex – “And my boyfriend is TOTALLY going to do sex things to me!” as if it’s nothing. Without even talking to Joe about it.
When Jennifer drank, she *knew* what the consequences would be. Same as Ruth. Same as Dorothy. Joyce is mostly ignorant, and looks like she’s signing herself up for Young Alcoholics. When Walky and Dorothy, or Sal and Danny have sex, they *know* what the risks are and what the consequences might be. Joyce might be vaguely aware of them, but is she really? She *literally* just ‘did laundry’ for the first time like less than a week ago.
I mean, this is Joe. Has it crossed her mind once that they might want to get screened for any STDs? That’s what any responsible person does. Is she aware that birth control isn’t 100% effective and she might have to make a choice she’s not ready for? I’m sure Dorothy and Sal have considered that. Becoming an athiest doesn’t immediately mean that someone is suddenly OK with the idea of having an abortion. It’s not that simple.
Growing up this way, you’re taught that “morals come from God, and people who don’t have God, just do whatever they feel like, because they don’t have that moral compass.” But everyone has a conscience, everyone has a moral compass, everyone thinks and considers the consequences of their actions. Hell, that’s exactly why Joe *isn’t* the womanizing philanderer he was in the beginning; because he knows that acting that way was wrong. And he learned that because he got hit hard with the consequences.
I’m hoping that Joyce reels herself back a little instead of rushing headfirst into the unknown, because life’s going to slap her hard back, too.
She did a fun thing with one friend and now wants to do that fun thing with her boyfriend. She’s got drunk once. To go from that to “she looks like she’s signing up for Young Alcoholics” is a reach so huge Reed Richards would struggle to make it.
(He has stretchy arms, you see)
And yes, she swore for the first time and is now overdoing it. This is a drama/comedy strip and it is amusing. And she’s been doing it for all of 5 minutes.
She’s maybe being a bit obnoxious in how she’s abandoned some of her pre-conceived notions… she was one of THOSE sorts of atheists for a bit… but that’s it. She’s not gone “God isn’t real, therefore all morality is pointless”. She’s not gone “sex before marriage is fine therefore I am going to have sex with my entire class DURING class.” She’s got got drunk once (with the partial aim of cheering up her stressed best friend) and isn’t now nursing a hip flask to get her through the day. None of her current behaviour requires life to “slap her back hard”.
I will not deny the possibility of this happening to Joyce, if only because that would demonstrate one of the most important morals of her story.
For Joyce’s former cult to mistake religion, excessive restriction and threat of excessive punishment as parenting and guidance was a huge mistake from the very get-go, and these are the consequences.
Joyce will wrongfully shoulder the burden of her former group’s repeated mistakes as she continues to break her chains, growing and acting with autonomy for basically the very first time in her entire life.
Also, I’m pretty sure Roz has taught her about birth control effectiveness and STDs because she actually cares.
Not everybody or we wouldn’t have serial killers. It’s funny I use to drink and have sex as a young adult. I was never raised to follow any religion and just need things as a normal part of growing up. And guess what? I am in my 30’s now and I don’t have any regrets. I am not an alcoholic nor did I ever get an STD or have a baby. Wild huh?
Just curious: Why is everyone so very worried about Joyce getting drunk around a group of trusted friends, but not expressing the same worry for any of the other people involved? Becky also grew up homeschooled, we can surmise that Dina wasn’t invited to a lot of parties from the things she’s said about how she grew up, it’s very likely that this is a new(ish) experience for all of them. Hell, even Joe might be new to drinking (I don’t think so, but idk if we know for sure).
Just surprised that with all the pearl-clutching, everyone seems laser focused on Joyce. IDK, makes all the concern sound like a smoke screen for just not liking it when Joyce does something new and maybe has a good time.
Everyone: Here meaning “wayyy too many of the comments” and not literally “everyone”
I do have to keep reminding myself that social drinking in US colleges is different from most of the rest the world so Joyce and co having a drink is always going to be different from a social acceptance and legal POV than in other countries. If it were the UK then I’d definitely have expected Joe to have drunk before now (didn’t Walkyverse Joe go to the pub with Jason?) but adult-but-not-allowed-alcohol Joe here might not?
The drinking has also got mixed in with “concent” to create particularly passionate opinions, where Joyce saying “I’d like to get drunk with my boyfriend” seems to have turned in to an idea that Joyce is going to get wasted, demand Joe have sex with her, and then feel horrible about it the next day and tell Joe that it was all a mistake and they should have never had sex ever!
Joe has drunk, early in the comic he has a hangover during class because of it. He reasoned that if he is of legal age to die for his country then he can get a little slouched.
@Nymph A lot of people gets up in arms about Joyce’s friend not respecting her autonomy and “infantilizing” her but now that she is actively trying to expand that autonomy now a lot of people seems to have issues with that.
I think there’s a little reasonable concern about “I got drunk last night. It was great. I want to do it again tonight.” Especially with both of those being weeknights.
It’s only the start of a pattern, but “Need to get drunk again right away” is different than “I’d like to do it again sometime”.
That’s true, although Becky is the one who initially suggested it, and she’s already grumpy about missing out the first night. It would probably more dangerous for Joyce’s health NOT to go.
drinking is nice and all, but what about like…mini-golf? dave and buster’s? the movies?
D&B also serves booze.
It also, frankly, sucks. It’s marketed as grown up Chuck E. Cheese but all the games were dominated by kids. Ugh.
Joe is probably concerned about Joyce. She realizes she said the word fuck and almost immediately says she needs to remind herself to put it in a phrase. She also has a history of going overboard with new things like when she decided she was an atheist and immediately that became her whole personality. I’d be concerned too as it’s an indication she is inclined to become a non-stop cursing like a sailor girl whose personality is getting drunk and having sex. That’s not the Joyce he fell for. It’s a very concerning for someone you care about to suddenly have such a major personality change.
“If we’re up for fun, I’d kind of like to go to the beach!”
Time for another beach episode.
Want to is not need to.
This was a reply that didn’t go where it was supposed to!
Wow, that’s a lot of trust.
This all seems fine, and I see no way in which it could go horribly wrong.