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I think…I think you may have something there. I’m having a flashback to Sal canonically saying ‘look at me like it’s real’, and Joe’s feelings about intimacy via his dad but I dunno how to connect the two.
Joe interacts with a woman with the assumption that he’ll be getting sex at the end.
Sal interacts with a man with the assumption that they’ll want sex from her in the end.
It’s a rough sea to navigate. And so many people don’t understand why you’ll allow some people to touch you and not others. Even worse is when you hit your limit.
“I really don’t like x.”
“That’s probably just because you haven’t had a good experience with it! Here, I’ll do it to you and then my violation of your boundaries will surely change your mind about things!”
I can’t reply to the replies to this, so dropping this here, I was in a group study thing and wasn’t able to leave, older woman in the group squeezed my shoulder and I asked her not to because I’m not fond of being touched, she told me she was the worst person to tell that to and proceeded to spend the rest of the session rubbing my arms and across my shoulders despite repeated requests not to.
In the end I shouted at her “STOP FUCKING TOUCHING ME!” and was reprimanded by the people running the group, she never came back after that, but I was the one who was seen as unreasonable despite everything, they never wanted my side of the story and I have to wonder if the roles had been reversed and I, being a male, was doing the touching if they’d have stepped in.
General ones are accepting that not everyone likes to be touched and that it can actually be a lot you’re asking from someone. My aunt one year insisted that our family hold hands for a blessing before Thanksgiving dinner, and a lot of people were annoyed about it (for various reasons– my aunt is not a popular family member), and she would bring it up like a year later in a mocking way, like, “Oh, it’s such a hardship to hold hands with your family!”
I got frustrated at that point and snapped, “People should be allowed to set their own boundaries. Why should we have to hold hands because you want to?”
And then in some settings, like at a volunteer training I went through, there are some things that are supposed to be more “fun” or “goofy” or “ice breaking” that involve touching in some way, and like… even if they say they respect boundaries, if there’s not a touch-free approach available, you might just sit out and then it might be counted against you for not participating.
Those are more for the touch-averse part. For the combination of touch-starved, touch-averse, I appreciated friends of mine who are more touchy who allow me the one to initiate causal touch in our interactions. I’ll still check in that it’s okay, but it can be done more casually when we know they’re generally onboard with it.
Not really, at least not in the way Malaya means. Sal doesn’t behave like this because she wants to keep up some image or reputation or whatever. She doesn’t drive a motorcycle and wear a leather jacket and fingerless gloves and smoke because wants to impress other people. She doesn’t want to be a loner because it’s “cool”.
I doubt her mom ever really held or cuddled her or even just talked gently to her after she was old enough to talk, let alone after the robbery attempt. I wouldn’t put it past her to treat every attempt by Sal to reach out as some kind of trick to “sweeten her up” before asking for something. And then she was sent off to a *catholic boarding school*. Sal probably has relatively little positive experience giving or receiving affection/intimacy (whether physical or emotional), so of course she’s gonna be stiff and hesitant and even potentially suspicious.
She clearly *wants* to have friends and be close to people, but doesn’t know how. It’s like opening a creaky door. The complaints mean the hinge is rusty, not that it’s pretending to be a wall.
Funny ideas? What could Danny do while holding her hand while walking that would be inappropriate? Besides isn’t she the one who is down bad for Danny?
She literally asked why they haven’t had sex yet at one point. Not that Danny should do anything rude like smack her ass or something, but I seriously doubt Danny would ever do that.
Maybe the “funny ideas” being referred to are sappy public displays of affection like a hug good-bye before class or, God forbid, a kiss? A girl can’t afford to get a reputation for having a heart, you know.
Like Yumi’s saying, it’s the emotional side of it, not sexual. She can be reluctant to be emotionally vulnerable, like consider how tricky it was for him to get her to accept the bike, then the flowers, etc. She isn’t used to love that isn’t transactional.
Took me a minute to figure out what you and Yumi meant, but that makes sense. At least the nonsense understandable, if that makes any sense. Sal is definitely scared of things falling apart, so she is taking her time to open up to Danny.
For real though, being touch-starved is hellish, and there was a point in my life where I didn’t know how to ask for it in a non-sexual context. (Didn’t help that my then-partner was a lot more averse to touch than me.) Luckily, 1) I got better at communicating, and 2) my current partner is as much of a constant cuddlebug as I am.
But like, being touch-starved outside of sexual contexts is a problem for a lot of men, I think (people of any gender can be, but men are socialized to hug their friends a lot less than women, for example). It makes sense for Joe, too. I hope that he can get to a point where he’s comfortable showing non-sexual affection to his friends *and* comfortable being physically affectionate with Joyce as they both work through their hangups around it.
An important part of touch starvation isn’t the physical touch, though that is essential too, it is intimacy. Have you ever hugged someone who was obviously doing it out of a sense of obligation? Didn’t feel the same, did it? We’re a too social species for our own good
A rare instance of Danny just being entirely on point in reading people.
Also damn I am also pretty touch-starved. Like, I finally have somebody I can cuddle with and that’s awesome, but I only get to see them for a weekend once every like 3 weeks and I feel guilty about wanting cuddles basically every day.
Probably will end up being friends, or at least on friendly terms. Interestingly Joe has the potential to have one of the, if not the, biggest, most diverse group of friends out of the lot of them
Oddly enough, I kind of feel like Joe might be simultaneously too cool and not cool enough to hang out with Sal. That is to say, he’s not really adventurous or action-oriented the way Marcie or even Amazi-Girl are, but he’s also not very cute and domestic the way Danny is, so I’m not exactly sure where he’d fit into Sal’s limited social life!
Ironically, Danny’s describing Joyce more than Joe. And even if she just did some Divinyl-ing, she’s still touch-starved! Self-touching doesn’t mean she’s not touch-starved anymore!!
Um. no. Danny is pretty accurately describing Joe associating “touching” with sex. The fact he’s had a lot of sex is kind of the point; he’s never had emotion-based physical contact with a non-relative that didn’t involve sex.
Joyce also associates touching with sex, of course. And, based on the rest of your comment, it seems like maybe so do you?
I put “non-relative” there because I worried it might read like I was suggesting something disturbing. But the more I think about being “touch starved”, the more I wonder if he’s had much physical contact with his close relatives at all.
Joyce is a massive cuddle bug who sticks to her friends like glue. She might be craving for more romantic touch, but she’s far from touch starved. Meanwhile I don’t think I’ve seen Joe hug anyone but her. Like, once.
Yes, it turns out “wanting to have sex” is a conditional thing and people can have complicated feelings about it and feel differently on different days! Who’d have thought?
Not quite (as amusing as I found the joke); rather, he genuinely isn’t comfortable with touching her, because, as Danny notes, his entire framework is touch -> sex, and he doesn’t want to trigger that scenario just now, either.
I didn’t understand Joe’s complaing. Are he starving touch? Like, yesterday in comic, he have touched Joyce during trainning, and it looked pretty normal for a couple.
He’s complaining because “everyone” (Dan, in this case) still assumes that “you spent time with a woman, of course you had sex with them”, and also this morning reinforced his “I’m unsafe, I can’t be around women without hurting or ‘ruining’ them” insecurities. Joyce defused it in the moment, but it seems it’s still bothering him.
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“or touch-hangry”
They should have a touch Snickers.
Does touching grass help in this scenario?
If the sun is warm, yes, actually.
“Touch-thirsty”?
Sal and Joe are actually two sides of the toxic sex history coin when you think about it.
I think…I think you may have something there. I’m having a flashback to Sal canonically saying ‘look at me like it’s real’, and Joe’s feelings about intimacy via his dad but I dunno how to connect the two.
Joe interacts with a woman with the assumption that he’ll be getting sex at the end.
Sal interacts with a man with the assumption that they’ll want sex from her in the end.
Thank you for putting it to words.
Absolutely nailed it! Nice one!
*in the end* hurhurhur
More like two terminals of the toxic sex history High Voltage Battery. It’s important they never come together. Things will explode.
so what i’m hearing is that they should never hug
–Dave, unless it’s behind a paywall, for safety’s sake
Currently working on my own touch issues in the form of being a combination of touch-starved and touch-averse. It’s fun!
(It might not be fun.)
Can you get a pet? Dogs love touch (especially behind the ears).
As someone in the same boat you have my sympathy.
It’s a rough sea to navigate. And so many people don’t understand why you’ll allow some people to touch you and not others. Even worse is when you hit your limit.
Would using a cat analogy help those people? Like the “Want touch–okay no that’s enough, I nip if you continue” thing they do sometimes.
Oof, I’ve been there.
I’m still there, but I’ve been there.
“No touchy! Nooo touchy! No touch!”
Worst part of that is that when you tell people they touch you more >.>
THAT IS THE WORST. Why does it happen so often that you ask someone to stop doing something and in response they do it even more??
Fucking RIGHT? About as much fun as a piss-scented candle T_T
I once had somebody respond with “I’m the worst person to say that to!” and proceed to start stroking my shoulders…
“I really don’t like x.”
“That’s probably just because you haven’t had a good experience with it! Here, I’ll do it to you and then my violation of your boundaries will surely change your mind about things!”
And I’m the unreasonable one when, after two hours of ignoring my polite requests to stop, I swear at them >.<
an offered e-hug
–Dave, no touch involved above the electron and photon level
Two hours? I don’t have the patience to last more than two seconds before profanity happens.
If somebody pushed my boundaries like that for two hours I’d probably slug them.
I can’t reply to the replies to this, so dropping this here, I was in a group study thing and wasn’t able to leave, older woman in the group squeezed my shoulder and I asked her not to because I’m not fond of being touched, she told me she was the worst person to tell that to and proceeded to spend the rest of the session rubbing my arms and across my shoulders despite repeated requests not to.
In the end I shouted at her “STOP FUCKING TOUCHING ME!” and was reprimanded by the people running the group, she never came back after that, but I was the one who was seen as unreasonable despite everything, they never wanted my side of the story and I have to wonder if the roles had been reversed and I, being a male, was doing the touching if they’d have stepped in.
This is appropriate for this conversation:
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=Iklm6HXnegY
The OG version. Joan Jett was better, but Gary Glitter did it first.
Aforementioned Joan Jett cover:
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=JiUHRBYjb7I
You’re welcome.
and here is what she is thinking ..
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=x92ccvZCzlg
no touch! only hug.
I know people in this boat. What do you wish the ppl around you knew or were better prepared to hear?
General ones are accepting that not everyone likes to be touched and that it can actually be a lot you’re asking from someone. My aunt one year insisted that our family hold hands for a blessing before Thanksgiving dinner, and a lot of people were annoyed about it (for various reasons– my aunt is not a popular family member), and she would bring it up like a year later in a mocking way, like, “Oh, it’s such a hardship to hold hands with your family!”
I got frustrated at that point and snapped, “People should be allowed to set their own boundaries. Why should we have to hold hands because you want to?”
And then in some settings, like at a volunteer training I went through, there are some things that are supposed to be more “fun” or “goofy” or “ice breaking” that involve touching in some way, and like… even if they say they respect boundaries, if there’s not a touch-free approach available, you might just sit out and then it might be counted against you for not participating.
Those are more for the touch-averse part. For the combination of touch-starved, touch-averse, I appreciated friends of mine who are more touchy who allow me the one to initiate causal touch in our interactions. I’ll still check in that it’s okay, but it can be done more casually when we know they’re generally onboard with it.
I dislike Malaya but she’s right about Sal being a fake
Gimme two seconds of her life when Sal’s been allowed to be anything resembling real that aren’t with Danny… fake is her real.
To some degree, while comically wrong about what she’s being fake about like 99.8 percent of the time.
And while also being even faker herself.
Not really, at least not in the way Malaya means. Sal doesn’t behave like this because she wants to keep up some image or reputation or whatever. She doesn’t drive a motorcycle and wear a leather jacket and fingerless gloves and smoke because wants to impress other people. She doesn’t want to be a loner because it’s “cool”.
I doubt her mom ever really held or cuddled her or even just talked gently to her after she was old enough to talk, let alone after the robbery attempt. I wouldn’t put it past her to treat every attempt by Sal to reach out as some kind of trick to “sweeten her up” before asking for something. And then she was sent off to a *catholic boarding school*. Sal probably has relatively little positive experience giving or receiving affection/intimacy (whether physical or emotional), so of course she’s gonna be stiff and hesitant and even potentially suspicious.
She clearly *wants* to have friends and be close to people, but doesn’t know how. It’s like opening a creaky door. The complaints mean the hinge is rusty, not that it’s pretending to be a wall.
Great analogy! Seriously, that’s a really cool way to look at it, and I think you’re right about Sal.
That analogy is so profound that it almost justifies all the hours I’ve spent in internet comment sections.
I don’t understand the alt-text.
Roomies! started on Sept 10.
DoA also started on Sept 10.
And Willis has been making comics all the time since then? That’s some dedication
CAN’T STOP WON’T STOP
–Dave, kazoo-and-theremin solo breaks out
Diving into the archives, the year 2023 bucked the trend but in 2022 and 2021, the September 10th strips each had Danny, Joe, and Sal
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-13/01-bring-me-to-life-drawing/semestersgoingfine/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-12/01-sister-christian/taptap/
Funny ideas? What could Danny do while holding her hand while walking that would be inappropriate? Besides isn’t she the one who is down bad for Danny?
She literally asked why they haven’t had sex yet at one point. Not that Danny should do anything rude like smack her ass or something, but I seriously doubt Danny would ever do that.
Funny ideas like that she is a sweet romantic who wants to feel cherished by her boyfriend, I guess.
Maybe the “funny ideas” being referred to are sappy public displays of affection like a hug good-bye before class or, God forbid, a kiss? A girl can’t afford to get a reputation for having a heart, you know.
Like Yumi’s saying, it’s the emotional side of it, not sexual. She can be reluctant to be emotionally vulnerable, like consider how tricky it was for him to get her to accept the bike, then the flowers, etc. She isn’t used to love that isn’t transactional.
Took me a minute to figure out what you and Yumi meant, but that makes sense. At least the nonsense understandable, if that makes any sense. Sal is definitely scared of things falling apart, so she is taking her time to open up to Danny.
This is both true and sad (IMO).
Because hand holding is the lewdest thing someone can do.
*sudden plewds erupt*
I don’t suppose those readings were Amber’s yaoi fanfics ? Xd
They weren’t, but they are now.
For real though, being touch-starved is hellish, and there was a point in my life where I didn’t know how to ask for it in a non-sexual context. (Didn’t help that my then-partner was a lot more averse to touch than me.) Luckily, 1) I got better at communicating, and 2) my current partner is as much of a constant cuddlebug as I am.
But like, being touch-starved outside of sexual contexts is a problem for a lot of men, I think (people of any gender can be, but men are socialized to hug their friends a lot less than women, for example). It makes sense for Joe, too. I hope that he can get to a point where he’s comfortable showing non-sexual affection to his friends *and* comfortable being physically affectionate with Joyce as they both work through their hangups around it.
Yes, it is. I agree 100% with you, and it’s a way lot worse when you’re single.
The male issue is real, and I cheer myself when I see 2 men hugging.
An important part of touch starvation isn’t the physical touch, though that is essential too, it is intimacy. Have you ever hugged someone who was obviously doing it out of a sense of obligation? Didn’t feel the same, did it? We’re a too social species for our own good
A rare instance of Danny just being entirely on point in reading people.
Also damn I am also pretty touch-starved. Like, I finally have somebody I can cuddle with and that’s awesome, but I only get to see them for a weekend once every like 3 weeks and I feel guilty about wanting cuddles basically every day.
Yessss, further vindication of head canons about Sal.
But seriously I feel like that reading Dan did is gonna come in handy in numerous ways in his relationships.
What did he read? Or is it a mystery?
The concept was brought up in the last panel, you have exactly as much information as the rest of the audience.
That Linda is wire mother. Jennifer’s mom makes her look like cloth mother though.
I was tempted to drop this reference in above, but I wasn’t sure how many would get it.
(I read about that years ago, and I still murmur to myself re some interactions/people/characters, “You were raised by the wire monkey, weren’t you.”)
Forget the date, what’s Sal doing in that doorway??
She probably came in their neighbor’s window.
pro-tected by a sil-ver swo-on
Not saying “hiya!”.
She is retiring of Too-cool-for-doorway life.
Someone needs her to appear in the doorway and finds her chopping wood in front of a cabin:
“Ah gave that life up a long tahm ago…”
Dammit i meant to say window
She’s already entering the room via door instead of window, don’t push her out of her comfort zone too far!
Also wow Danny’s words to Joe about being touch-starved are really hitting home here.
It’s good stuff! I like Danny. Sad we didn’t get to see a hug between them, though
I like Danny a lot, and Sal absolutely has been bringing out his best.
Give it time, this feels like one of those things that’ll get called back to in a climactic moment.
Sal and Joe should be friends. It would be fun.
Probably will end up being friends, or at least on friendly terms. Interestingly Joe has the potential to have one of the, if not the, biggest, most diverse group of friends out of the lot of them
For sure. I do feel like there’s a fun potential dynamic there.
Oddly enough, I kind of feel like Joe might be simultaneously too cool and not cool enough to hang out with Sal. That is to say, he’s not really adventurous or action-oriented the way Marcie or even Amazi-Girl are, but he’s also not very cute and domestic the way Danny is, so I’m not exactly sure where he’d fit into Sal’s limited social life!
Sal’s into Mario Kart, Danny and Joe have played together. She might enjoy beating him in that.
but will danny still get that joe hug
ooh that avi fits well
Oh look, it’s Hat Guy. Hey Hat Guy!
Friend therapyyyyy
Ironically, Danny’s describing Joyce more than Joe. And even if she just did some Divinyl-ing, she’s still touch-starved! Self-touching doesn’t mean she’s not touch-starved anymore!!
ROZ!!!
Um. no. Danny is pretty accurately describing Joe associating “touching” with sex. The fact he’s had a lot of sex is kind of the point; he’s never had emotion-based physical contact with a non-relative that didn’t involve sex.
Joyce also associates touching with sex, of course. And, based on the rest of your comment, it seems like maybe so do you?
I put “non-relative” there because I worried it might read like I was suggesting something disturbing. But the more I think about being “touch starved”, the more I wonder if he’s had much physical contact with his close relatives at all.
Joyce is a massive cuddle bug who sticks to her friends like glue. She might be craving for more romantic touch, but she’s far from touch starved. Meanwhile I don’t think I’ve seen Joe hug anyone but her. Like, once.
Sal “Why aren’t we fuckin’?”
Also Sal: “Dont get any funny ideas.”
Yes, it turns out “wanting to have sex” is a conditional thing and people can have complicated feelings about it and feel differently on different days! Who’d have thought?
But she’d say the same even if they’d just fucked.
The funny ideas here are the romance ones, not the horny ones
“It’s for the best” Joe seems rather put out.
Joe’s put out because Joyce won’t.
I’ll show myself out.
Not quite (as amusing as I found the joke); rather, he genuinely isn’t comfortable with touching her, because, as Danny notes, his entire framework is touch -> sex, and he doesn’t want to trigger that scenario just now, either.
Touch starvation is a thing. A damned and terrible thing.
woke up to a dream of Joe and Sarah doing non-sexual non-violent physical contact. Just leaning against each other doing homework.
awww :]
I didn’t understand Joe’s complaing. Are he starving touch? Like, yesterday in comic, he have touched Joyce during trainning, and it looked pretty normal for a couple.
He’s complaining because “everyone” (Dan, in this case) still assumes that “you spent time with a woman, of course you had sex with them”, and also this morning reinforced his “I’m unsafe, I can’t be around women without hurting or ‘ruining’ them” insecurities. Joyce defused it in the moment, but it seems it’s still bothering him.
Good to see Danny be able to give useful advices to his best friend.
joe, come on. hug yer bestie eternal!!
DOOO EEET
–Dave, *popcorn, lorgnettes*