There’s only one unit for regrets: too many. And as to the saw about only regretting the things you haven’t done, bullshit. There’s at least two folks in this world I regret ever having met, let alone had relationships with. Three if you count meeting my incubator.
On the one hand, very few people come to the end of their lives laying on their deathbeds thinking ‘I wish I’d done less with my life generally.’
On the other hand, I have to imagine many (though not all) of the people who die in manners where they have less of a chance to record their final thoughts, have at least a moment of thinking ‘I wish I hadn’t done this specifically.’
However, I do wonder why Ruth does not have freckles on her forearms – which would sensibly receive more sun light than her upper arms and shoulders. Maybe she really likes those really long, fancy old-timey lady gloves?
Of course not. She loves Billie, this new girl she’s unsure about.
But seriously, if it was anyone or anything else, she would have just said “Of course not, I also love X” last strip. It being Jennifer is the only reason to be coy about it.
I never really stopped, I just wished they made mentally healthier choices with each other. But couples therapy isn’t really a college relationship kind of thing.
Y’know, this conversation could actually end up being very useful if Dorothy decides to do literally the exact opposite of whatever these two tell her to do.
It’s honestly amazing that DoA Dorothy is the character she is given how she’s comparatively much less fleshed out in the Walkyverse, like she really has a claim to one of the most fleshed out by the universe jump.
Dina and Becky, obviously, have to be on that list, too, and probably Sarah? But yeah, Dorothy’s a contender.
Well, basically everyone has had more development here, except like Beef, Guns and debateably a few of the Shortpacked cast, but Dorothy and Becky definitely got major promotions in terms of plot significance and cast prominence
Dina got enough development in IW! that I’d strike her from that list. Her storyline is much different obviously, but she had more than Dorothy or Becky.
I’d honestly consider putting Lucy up. She still needs more digging here, but she was someone who felt honestly very surface level in Shortpacked!. She had storylines but they never felt very deep. If she got more nuance here I’d certainly consider her a contender.
I think Danny’s also there. A lot of his development was funnel focused towards the end of Roomies!, and then he largely disappeared except as a plot point for Joyce and Sal. We’ve seen him speedrun whatever development he had in Roomies! already and his dynamic with Sal feels way more comfortable; like an exploration of the what might have been.
Lucy and the other new hires were clearly an attempt to add some new spice to late Shortpacked, but then he wrapped it up and made DOA. It’s honestly understandable.
…I’m playing some meditation music trying to overcome my anxiety.
It’s ridiculous — I’m applying for a job that I’m ridiculously overqualified for, which would require me to move to an area with a MUCH higher cost of living than where I live now, where I know NOBODY (as opposed to my supportive group of neighbors right here), at a steep pay cut.
…And yet, I’m still freaking out with anxiety about it!
It would be a good opportunity to learn different skills, and it’s a place where my spouse wants to live, but I NEED to get some perspective on this application process!
As Jacques Prevert said, “Martyr, c’est pourrir un peu.” So don’t knock yourself out trying to bend over backwards for others, ‘K?
;-D
And as Forrest Gump said, “Sometimes, there just aren’t enough rocks” to knock down all the oppressors in our lives. So we content ourselves with the rocks we can grasp.
We mostly exist because our brains suuuuuuuck at long-term decision-making and our parents didn’t think having kids through. Found out last summer my dad apparently demanded they stop for a soda as my mom was going into labor with my oldest brother. Don’t fucking @ me about the human condition. It’s pretty shit.
What’s left for us is to not break things any more than they’re already broken. I do hope Dorothy sees that she is at her best and most helpful when she’s not scrutinizing herself so much. People have said she’d be way more effective as a judge or federal clerk and I think that would absolutely feed her need to help while not pressuring her until she’s cracking like she is now.
The good thing is that at least Dorothy let go of her anger, something that she already needed to do, now she is questioning what to do, she has made it clear that she wants to help people, it is seen that she has truly demonstrated it genuinely and as many have mentioned, there are other ways to do it and being president is not necessary. The question is, who will be the one to help her see that new perspective?
And I also think it’s time to learn a little more about Dorothy’s past.
Yeah. YEAH. It’s odd because she’s gotten so much development if we compare her to the beginning of the comic… And yet we know almost nothing of her childhood, for example? We’ve been told some basic stuff but never shown anything.
(Other examples would be Danny and Joe… And I don’t think it’s a coincidence.)
Two things can be simultaneously true: That Ruth and Billie are doing a terrible job of helping Dorothy, and this conversation ending up helping Dorothy.
Remember, if its stupid but it works, its still stupid and you’re lucky! 😀
Spite is legit an amazing tool – It’s Hope’s angry cousin, ready to take over when shit goes dark, because like hell you’ll let it win over you. Ruth is right to love it.
It used to be something Jennifer adored in her TwT
Spite does have its place: When you’ve hit bottom and need a jet pack to get back in ‘control’ (an illusion that feeds hope), it is the I’ll-show-you fuel that gets you on your feet again. Not always healthy, but more directed than wallowing in pity.
Yeah, that’s the thing. One cannot run on Spite. You can do it for longer if you, like, do brief cycles of it and multitask it (does that sound weird?) but it’s adrenaline-based. In the end, if it’s your only sustenance, you’re bound to crash.
There is no point to existence, that’s the beauty of it. There’s no purpose, there’s no reason. Any meaning or purpose you derive from life is what you give yourself, and I personally find that immeasurably freeing.
Dorothy, you exist because you exist, there’s nothing more to it than that. You do things which make you happy, you try to be considerate of others and you weigh those two things against each other constantly to navigate life. And at the end, whatever happens that’s beyond anybody’s knowledge or understanding, you look around at your family and/or the people whose lives you improved by existing and find satisfaction in that. Joy is fleeting, happiness is a construct, misery is addictive, so the ultimate thing I strive for personally is contentment. That’s all part of my personal philosophies anyways, I’ve been told before that my beliefs are existentially upsetting.
Dorothy, if you want to help people you still can. You can do charity work, you can be a social worker, you can become a psychology major and become a psych or therapist (granted she has some uh, ableist tendencies that need to be hammered out imo), but you should try to steer away from defining yourself so rigidly by one goal.
Or at the very least, stop defining yourself by things which aren’t you. Other people, Yale, the presidency, the Joyce-keeper, I think she really needs to figure out what actually makes her happy. (And also seek actual treatment for her trauma)
Yes, life is chaos, but when we look for its meaning it makes it fascinating and we find a way to enjoy it.
It is really encouraging to see these types of comments where you want to see that Dorothy manages to overcome her problems and believe me that when she does, the rest will notice something different in her, of course when she is honest, it will create divisions, we just have to wait to see what will happen.
1000% there with you. It’s freeing. Sometimes freedom is scary and upsetting, too, but there’s beauty in trying to make your own meaning as you go. The best you can do is Authenticity. And… One thing I’ve consistently started to notice, very recently, is that people remember you far, far more and more kindly than you think.
The other half of Sartre’s “Hell is Others” (which is actually about fear of judgement making us turn into an object for others to evaluate) is “Heaven is very simple, and very hard – caring about your fellow human beings.” Dorothy’s interconnectedness, the way she loves and the people she’s loved and helped– This is already a lot. At the very least, it’d be nice if she stopped defining herself by the Other’s gaze, and let herself be supported by those who’d love to help her.
Similar vibes to ‘We’re here because we’re here because we’re here because we’re heeeeeeere’ (to the tune of auld lang syne), as famously sung by troops in the first world war (I think British?)
Phrases like “meaning of life” strike me as a weird case of apples and oranges.
“Meaning” attaches to things that humans create, because they are intentional and embedded in all kinds of symbolic webs. It’s also historical and political because meaning is always social. It only exists by being communicated. But “existence” is not like that, it’s just… the background condition for doing anything i guess.
And to me at least that’s a helpful thing to remember. Because it emphasizes that “meaning” is a thing that we make, it’s a process, it’s interactive. not something that pre-exists that we will finally stumble upon if we just dig deep enough
Why not both? Supposing that we were intentionally created and a meaning has been assigned to our existence, still, as agents we can assign our own meaning to our existence. If we have no agency, then who is asking the question?
but who is assigning the meaning in that passive sentence of yours?
regardless, sure, i guess anytime you ask that sort of question you are automatically implying some form of agency. But “finding the meaning of life” feels like a very different pursuit to that of “doing meaning as an act of existence”. For one, the former is finite. The other is open-ended. And another difference is that the former is accountable to some mystical principle. The second can only be accountable to other actual beings. (i don’t believe there is such a thing as a self independent of others, so in this context you’re always in communication with others when you make meaning. i don’t think meaning is necessarily linguistic but it is symbolic, and symbolic existence is pretty much purely social i think.)
Forgetting all the cosmic meaning nonsense*, I think a person can find meaning (figurative?) in their own life. If it’s for communication, then it’s something they tell themselves.
*as the good book says, everything is meaningless. Coincidentally, last night I watched a movie with the main character named Qohen Leth. The meaning (literal) of the movie was not subtle.
It looks a lot like “Brazil”, and feels a lot like “Brazil” if the characters can right out and said things like, “I am waiting for a phone call where I am told the meaning of life”, or “there is no meaning to life, and I find that comforting.”
Maybe living one’s life with every single decision under a microscope, grading oneself against making only immaculate decisions isn’t a practical way to do it.
I think Ruth’s advice doesn’t land because what she’s thinking when she says things like “live with integrity” or “be a little selfish” aren’t what Dorothy hears in those phrases. I think ultimately, Dorothy has to figure her shit out herself, she has to realize it’s ok to be ordinary. If Ruth manages to articulate some good advice, it’s still up to Dorothy to grok it.
It’s good for her that they’re expressing sympathy though. She’s opened up to both of them before, and she’s never been Future-President-Dorothy-Keener for them. There’s not an added feeling of disappointing them.
We could say that this pair’s interference at least helped Dorothy get over her anger, but it’s best not to assume that they are the definitive option.
Yes, Dorothy still has a lot to discover, but that doesn’t mean she has to do it alone, there must be someone who sees her as a human being and most of all, doesn’t idolize her.
I have no psychological soothsaying to say tonight :(( I only wanna hug Dorothy super hard, and tell her to let go of this immense guilt she’s carrying because, fuck, that was relatable.
That or take her somewhere she can break things with a bat and yell freely.
PS: I HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN THE PLAYLIST, my Saturday ended up being kinda shitty. But I’m working on it ^^ Keep throwing Ruth/Jennifer songs at me!
I ended up sprinkling soothsaying through the comments BUT IT’S BECAUSE I WANNA HUG THIS POOR GIRL SO HARD, I GOTTA SHARE THAT EMOTION, BRUH. And y’know. Over explain why I wanna. Maybe do a powerpoint lecture. You know that feel.
“Or would, if I were immaculate at it” hurrrrt. And also reminded me of that Tumblr favorite: Suzanne Rivecca talking to her therapist about her perfectionism while writing (a quote that has always gutted me.)
“It has to be perfect. It has to be irreproachable in every way.”
“Why?” she said.
“To make up for it,” I said. “To make up for the fact that it’s me.”
I haven’t read anything by her, but damn. And I think this stupidly relatable thing is, too, what lies at the core of Dorothy. She’s a paladin. Of course she’ll fall apart if her cause is shown to be unrighteous and her skills lacking. Even more if it’s something she’s feared all along.
I know I’m not perfect and never will be. Reaching for perfection is how I stretch into the best I can be. So reach for it, and don’t be disappointed so long as you’ve done your best. Be the best of you. There may be no one else who could have done so well.
Someone point to Dorothy that if she, one of the most helpful (or attempting to be) person she knows, is unworthy of existing due to the lack of efficacy of her helping, she’s also decreeing that most other people have no right nor reason to exist either.
She has yet to notice that casting herself as this heroic, messianic helper is massively arrogant.
I mean, she isn’t saying everyone reason for existing should be helping everyone, she is saying that hers is. This is less arrogance and more deep self deprecation. It’s kind of like saying people with anxiety are arrogant because they think people are constantly watching and judging them.
I see where you’re coming from. She is judgmental, and usually she couches it a lot better than today’s strip. But like she does look down on other people. You don’t have to go looking through the archives, the punchline in today’s strip is an example.
brains do not operate on logical gates. one thing can be true in one part of the brain (like “self-image”) and another thing in another blob (“consideration for others”). ya know
Honestly Ruth’s point about being a “pointlessly self-righteous martyr” is probably exactly what Dorothy needs to hear. She’s self-destructing via sacrifice and it’s not doing anything she wants, which begs the question, then why are you doing it? What do *you* want? Which keeps looping back into “make no one hurt ever again,” repeating the cycle.
I think Dorothy is being kind of unfair — not unduly, though. Like yeah Ruth came to Dorothy for advice for something she was already going to do and blew it up deliberately which made Billie lash out at her for it and now she’s like “See, that was a good choice, I’m miserable but Billie won’t kill herself!”
So like yeah she’s right but Dorothy won’t hear it from anyone. She’s kind of the comic’s sin-eater.
Ruth is absolutely still using this opportunity to rehash her relationship end with Jennifer to explain her reasons to Jennifer without actually having to directly spell them out to her. She is not lecturing Dorothy she’s using Dorothy as an opportunity to get closure or something more with Jennifer. It is pointless, hopefully Dotty will get a wake up call from this that actually she has it together and does more good than these chumps, so if they can exist and feel good about their contributions, surely she’s able to do better than that?
Or Ruth has the relationship ending insuperably top-of-mind right now (with Jennifer right there) and it infects everything she contributes to the conversation, even as she’s just trying to escape that bootless conversation.
I know they were more toxic than a wastewater treatment plant, but God I miss them together. Their current relationships are just so boring in comparison (which would be a good thing in real life, but this is fiction).
I’d assume it’s actually Howard, maybe not right now as Ruth may be trying to hint specifically that it’s Jennifer. Jennifer I’d assume suspects in some small part of her and is definitely trying to fish it out, in a way that feels like it may be reflective of the comic where she talks to Ruth about how she’s like booster.
I’m genuinely curious as to when Dotty got into this line of thinking. If we take her at word (with a grain of salt, this could be emotion/depression/reactive defensiveness talking), she seems to imagine a hard binary between:
A) I am an immaculate super-god who’s every single decision can stand up to microscopic scrutiny and can surely make other people happy and better.
B) I am incapable of helping and therefore have no reason to exist.
This sounds to me like logic you would feed to an evil computer to make it shut down. Just how long has she been shouldering this mentality, and where did it start?
We have not seen a flashback to her at 11 or whatever, but that would be my guess. It feels like the kind of thing she’s built her whole identity around, someone told her what great potential she had when she was impressionable, and https://www.gocomics.com/peanuts/1963/03/22 this happened, but internalized over a whole phase of life. The future-president thing is tied into it, and that’s not a High School Junior decides out of nowhere.
The first one is kind of incorrect, what she is saying is that she has spend all her life micro analyzing all of her own thoughts and actions, to try to be as good and efficient as she could could possibly be. She is just now getting to the point where that type of constant self made pressure is getting her to breakdown mentally.
Like many other people in the comments, I relate very hard to Dorothy in this strip, and while I can’t exactly speak to when Dorothy fell into this hard binary, I can certainly project my own opinions about myself onto her!
I think a lot of it stems from having an excess of freedom, power, and praise as a kid, and not enough direct guidance and supervision, while also having lots of general ideals pressed upon you by popular culture. All of that is very gradual, so there’s no one point you can point to as “the start of it all”, but over time this obsession with being perfect and helping everyone builds up. You notice that nobody is watching you too closely, for whatever reason, so you carefully construct a “microscope” in your own head to do the job, and improving it over time. You know being good means helping people, but it’s not really clear who, so just to be safe you assume you’re supposed to help everyone. You know you’re smart and powerful, but you’re not sure why, or what to do with all that power, so you take some kind of “smart and powerful” role from pop culture and never stop striving to emulate it. You don’t have a lot of rules being set for you, but you want to fit in, so you keep setting more and more rules for yourself until you forget what the heck they were all for in the first place (latent ASD may or may not help with this part). And all this combines to create a truly massive guilt-monster in your head that enforces precisely that hard binary we were originally talking about, even though absolutely nobody in your life outside of yourself ever wanted you to feel (or could even imagine you feeling) that way!
We haven’t seen much of Dorothy’s childhood, but we know her parents are pretty broadly supportive of her dreams and career goals, and we know that both parents had a Catholic upbringing but are currently non-religious and made sure Dorothy had the freedom to choose her own religion. We also know she was top of her class in high school, so it’s very plausible that she has a history of being considered a “gifted child” by the USA’s public school system. And I think that all has the very strong potential to create the conditions I was talking about – the power, praise, and freedom, minus direct guidance and supervision. Though like I said, I’m also definitely projecting a lot of stuff from my own upbringing (though my own grandparents are Protestant, not Catholic). Regardless, that’s my interpretation. Hope it was interesting, and helped answer your question, Dday!
Every moment in which I am a slight inconvenience for someone is a grave trespass for which I must earn redemption.
(In past depressive episodes, this would connect with such extreme internal reactions– like, I’d be driving, and another car would have to wait because I was also there, and I’d be like, “If I didn’t exist, they could’ve made that turn.”)
Wow… Dorothy is an even sadder character that I’ve always thought. That’s really awful, also really, REALLY naive. Panel 4 Ruth deserves to become a poster.
Jesus. A 19 year old, trying to succeed and wanting to help people, running headfirst into more of the harsh reality of life than many senators ever have or will – how awful and naive of her not to know better.
This looks like an example of failed narcissism.
Dorothy needs to quit sweating the details and making all those details all about her. She thinks she is responsible for the world. She is not.
Seriously… as someone with a personality disorder in the same cluster, it’s so frustrating how the meaning of the word has been diluted and, worse, turned into a weapon against anybody the speaker doesn’t like
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“I like things? How the fuck did that happen”
oh good it still works
Seriously, how DID that happen??
Okay so I recognize Barb, but who’s the other one in your Grav? I feel like I know her from somewhere but I’m drawing a blank.
I think it’s Luanne?
I think she’s the optometrist.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/atwatereyecare/
Add Barb to the freckles list.
This is… certainly a strip 😮
Poor Dorothy 🥺
Ruth and Billy are the angel and devil on Dorothy’s shoulder, and they’re both assholes.
Dorothy only has angels. That she feels she can’t please them is her hell.
Hell is feeling like you’re obligated to help other people.
Hell is
feeling like you’re obligated to helpother people.-Jean-Paul Sartre
Or, in the words of Dave Lister, from Red Dwarf:
“Yeah, but all his mates were French.”
More like Thing One and Thing Two from Blowjob Cat in The Hat
I cackled
“The angel doesn’t work here anymore”
“It’s just the two of us and the slaad, and trust me, you don’t want him to come out.”
The truck was Dorothy all along.
It’s nostalgic really
We do not know, Dorothy, but it’s entertaining asf
and how many regrets should you have?
less than a few
But then again too few to mention
Non, je ne regrette rien.
There’s only one unit for regrets: too many. And as to the saw about only regretting the things you haven’t done, bullshit. There’s at least two folks in this world I regret ever having met, let alone had relationships with. Three if you count meeting my incubator.
On the one hand, very few people come to the end of their lives laying on their deathbeds thinking ‘I wish I’d done less with my life generally.’
On the other hand, I have to imagine many (though not all) of the people who die in manners where they have less of a chance to record their final thoughts, have at least a moment of thinking ‘I wish I hadn’t done this specifically.’
So, y’know. It’s a balance.
Knew you’d work it in somewhere eventually!
It was inevitable.
And yet a delightful surprise.
A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.
Ruth is crossing her arms because, she’s the only one without a jacket. That is some sweet good attention to detail. Yesss it fires all right neurons.
However, I do wonder why Ruth does not have freckles on her forearms – which would sensibly receive more sun light than her upper arms and shoulders. Maybe she really likes those really long, fancy old-timey lady gloves?
I’m only lightly freckled, but it’s mostly on my upper arms and stops before it reaches my lower forearms.
That’s cool. I didn’t know they could do that.
Please-please don’t let one of those things Ruth loves be Jennifer.
I mean, that’s clearly the implication. Hence Dorothy’s comment. She got it.
Jennifer got it, too. That’s why she’s trying to find an answer that isn’t that.
Ruth also loves the Leafs. She can’t be trusted to make right choices in life.
The Leafs also allow hockey and self righteous pointless martyr to be the same entry under “things she loves”
Please Ruth let one of the things you love be Jennifer, I miss you twos dynamic especially near the end of the season pre time skip 🙏🙏🙏
Willis is being good to us.
Better get your damnyous ready.
Ah, the bracing sting of reality comes to the fore.
All the best cynics have at least one bagful at hand at all times.
I was just thinking the same thing. 😆😂
Of course not. She loves Billie, this new girl she’s unsure about.
But seriously, if it was anyone or anything else, she would have just said “Of course not, I also love X” last strip. It being Jennifer is the only reason to be coy about it.
Unless it’s Jason. oof i sure hope not. “Terrible couple.”
Anyways I am shipping these two again. sorry all.
I never really stopped, I just wished they made mentally healthier choices with each other. But couples therapy isn’t really a college relationship kind of thing.
“Love is not love
which alters when it alteration finds.”
maybe it’s not specifically Billie, maybe it’s just girls
Of course no, it’s obviously Jason. The weird bartender that was actually able to help her during her crisis.
No rugrats!
Not even a letter?
Not even Chuckie?
(Hey,Chuckie’s got red hair and square glasses! It’s all starting to fit together!)
Y’know, this conversation could actually end up being very useful if Dorothy decides to do literally the exact opposite of whatever these two tell her to do.
NO REGRETS.
I read “acting with integrity” and instinctively looked for a truck.
We all did.
dorothy may have regrets
Mostly regret starting this interaction.
Because they’re sharing their braincells.
Dorothy just needs to work on the “no regrets” part.
If Ruth has to get rid of a thing… well, nice knowing you, Howard.
It’s honestly amazing that DoA Dorothy is the character she is given how she’s comparatively much less fleshed out in the Walkyverse, like she really has a claim to one of the most fleshed out by the universe jump.
Dina and Becky, obviously, have to be on that list, too, and probably Sarah? But yeah, Dorothy’s a contender.
Well, basically everyone has had more development here, except like Beef, Guns and debateably a few of the Shortpacked cast, but Dorothy and Becky definitely got major promotions in terms of plot significance and cast prominence
Dina got enough development in IW! that I’d strike her from that list. Her storyline is much different obviously, but she had more than Dorothy or Becky.
I’d honestly consider putting Lucy up. She still needs more digging here, but she was someone who felt honestly very surface level in Shortpacked!. She had storylines but they never felt very deep. If she got more nuance here I’d certainly consider her a contender.
I think Danny’s also there. A lot of his development was funnel focused towards the end of Roomies!, and then he largely disappeared except as a plot point for Joyce and Sal. We’ve seen him speedrun whatever development he had in Roomies! already and his dynamic with Sal feels way more comfortable; like an exploration of the what might have been.
I’d say he was a plot point for Billie.
Lucy and the other new hires were clearly an attempt to add some new spice to late Shortpacked, but then he wrapped it up and made DOA. It’s honestly understandable.
Alright
1)Being miserable
2) boob #1
3) boob #2
4) hockey
Maybe “two miserable lumps of agony” can be her nickname for those two boobs
I was gonna make something akin to that joke yesterday but couldn’t figure out how to phrase it.
I’m dying! 😹😹
Whoops, relating to panel 3 Dorothy a bit more than I would like.
🥺🫂
Yeah, same here.
…I’m playing some meditation music trying to overcome my anxiety.
It’s ridiculous — I’m applying for a job that I’m ridiculously overqualified for, which would require me to move to an area with a MUCH higher cost of living than where I live now, where I know NOBODY (as opposed to my supportive group of neighbors right here), at a steep pay cut.
…And yet, I’m still freaking out with anxiety about it!
It would be a good opportunity to learn different skills, and it’s a place where my spouse wants to live, but I NEED to get some perspective on this application process!
As Jacques Prevert said, “Martyr, c’est pourrir un peu.” So don’t knock yourself out trying to bend over backwards for others, ‘K?
;-D
And as Forrest Gump said, “Sometimes, there just aren’t enough rocks” to knock down all the oppressors in our lives. So we content ourselves with the rocks we can grasp.
Beavis and Butthead come to mind. Which one would be the Great Cornholio?
The polls continue to be incredible.
We mostly exist because our brains suuuuuuuck at long-term decision-making and our parents didn’t think having kids through. Found out last summer my dad apparently demanded they stop for a soda as my mom was going into labor with my oldest brother. Don’t fucking @ me about the human condition. It’s pretty shit.
What’s left for us is to not break things any more than they’re already broken. I do hope Dorothy sees that she is at her best and most helpful when she’s not scrutinizing herself so much. People have said she’d be way more effective as a judge or federal clerk and I think that would absolutely feed her need to help while not pressuring her until she’s cracking like she is now.
The good thing is that at least Dorothy let go of her anger, something that she already needed to do, now she is questioning what to do, she has made it clear that she wants to help people, it is seen that she has truly demonstrated it genuinely and as many have mentioned, there are other ways to do it and being president is not necessary. The question is, who will be the one to help her see that new perspective?
And I also think it’s time to learn a little more about Dorothy’s past.
Yeah. YEAH. It’s odd because she’s gotten so much development if we compare her to the beginning of the comic… And yet we know almost nothing of her childhood, for example? We’ve been told some basic stuff but never shown anything.
(Other examples would be Danny and Joe… And I don’t think it’s a coincidence.)
Exactly, it’s time to see those blue flashbacks of the girl.
Two things can be simultaneously true: That Ruth and Billie are doing a terrible job of helping Dorothy, and this conversation ending up helping Dorothy.
Remember, if its stupid but it works, its still stupid and you’re lucky! 😀
yo uh newflash its in the title of da comic
How are all these commenters forgetting Ruth’s truest love, spite?
Spite is legit an amazing tool – It’s Hope’s angry cousin, ready to take over when shit goes dark, because like hell you’ll let it win over you. Ruth is right to love it.
It used to be something Jennifer adored in her TwT
I love that cousin reference!
Spite does have its place: When you’ve hit bottom and need a jet pack to get back in ‘control’ (an illusion that feeds hope), it is the I’ll-show-you fuel that gets you on your feet again. Not always healthy, but more directed than wallowing in pity.
Thank you! ^^
Yeah, that’s the thing. One cannot run on Spite. You can do it for longer if you, like, do brief cycles of it and multitask it (does that sound weird?) but it’s adrenaline-based. In the end, if it’s your only sustenance, you’re bound to crash.
There is no point to existence, that’s the beauty of it. There’s no purpose, there’s no reason. Any meaning or purpose you derive from life is what you give yourself, and I personally find that immeasurably freeing.
Dorothy, you exist because you exist, there’s nothing more to it than that. You do things which make you happy, you try to be considerate of others and you weigh those two things against each other constantly to navigate life. And at the end, whatever happens that’s beyond anybody’s knowledge or understanding, you look around at your family and/or the people whose lives you improved by existing and find satisfaction in that. Joy is fleeting, happiness is a construct, misery is addictive, so the ultimate thing I strive for personally is contentment. That’s all part of my personal philosophies anyways, I’ve been told before that my beliefs are existentially upsetting.
Dorothy, if you want to help people you still can. You can do charity work, you can be a social worker, you can become a psychology major and become a psych or therapist (granted she has some uh, ableist tendencies that need to be hammered out imo), but you should try to steer away from defining yourself so rigidly by one goal.
Or at the very least, stop defining yourself by things which aren’t you. Other people, Yale, the presidency, the Joyce-keeper, I think she really needs to figure out what actually makes her happy. (And also seek actual treatment for her trauma)
Agreed with all of the above.
Yes, life is chaos, but when we look for its meaning it makes it fascinating and we find a way to enjoy it.
It is really encouraging to see these types of comments where you want to see that Dorothy manages to overcome her problems and believe me that when she does, the rest will notice something different in her, of course when she is honest, it will create divisions, we just have to wait to see what will happen.
1000% there with you. It’s freeing. Sometimes freedom is scary and upsetting, too, but there’s beauty in trying to make your own meaning as you go. The best you can do is Authenticity. And… One thing I’ve consistently started to notice, very recently, is that people remember you far, far more and more kindly than you think.
The other half of Sartre’s “Hell is Others” (which is actually about fear of judgement making us turn into an object for others to evaluate) is “Heaven is very simple, and very hard – caring about your fellow human beings.” Dorothy’s interconnectedness, the way she loves and the people she’s loved and helped– This is already a lot. At the very least, it’d be nice if she stopped defining herself by the Other’s gaze, and let herself be supported by those who’d love to help her.
Why are we here?
Because we’re here,
Roll the bones, roll the bones
Why does it happen?
Because it happens,
Roll the bones, roll the bones…
– Rush, from a song (unsurprisingly) titled “Roll the Bones”.
Came to quote this refrain!
*curtsies in gratitude*
*loses balance*
Similar vibes to ‘We’re here because we’re here because we’re here because we’re heeeeeeere’ (to the tune of auld lang syne), as famously sung by troops in the first world war (I think British?)
Phrases like “meaning of life” strike me as a weird case of apples and oranges.
“Meaning” attaches to things that humans create, because they are intentional and embedded in all kinds of symbolic webs. It’s also historical and political because meaning is always social. It only exists by being communicated. But “existence” is not like that, it’s just… the background condition for doing anything i guess.
And to me at least that’s a helpful thing to remember. Because it emphasizes that “meaning” is a thing that we make, it’s a process, it’s interactive. not something that pre-exists that we will finally stumble upon if we just dig deep enough
Why not both? Supposing that we were intentionally created and a meaning has been assigned to our existence, still, as agents we can assign our own meaning to our existence. If we have no agency, then who is asking the question?
but who is assigning the meaning in that passive sentence of yours?
regardless, sure, i guess anytime you ask that sort of question you are automatically implying some form of agency. But “finding the meaning of life” feels like a very different pursuit to that of “doing meaning as an act of existence”. For one, the former is finite. The other is open-ended. And another difference is that the former is accountable to some mystical principle. The second can only be accountable to other actual beings. (i don’t believe there is such a thing as a self independent of others, so in this context you’re always in communication with others when you make meaning. i don’t think meaning is necessarily linguistic but it is symbolic, and symbolic existence is pretty much purely social i think.)
i hope this all makes sense, i happen to be high.
Forgetting all the cosmic meaning nonsense*, I think a person can find meaning (figurative?) in their own life. If it’s for communication, then it’s something they tell themselves.
*as the good book says, everything is meaningless. Coincidentally, last night I watched a movie with the main character named Qohen Leth. The meaning (literal) of the movie was not subtle.
I had never heard the title, but with Terry Gilliam directing I’d probably enjoy it.
i didn’t get what this movie’s meaning was? is “Qohen Leth” a pun
Oh wait i get it it’s Qohelet, it’s that bible character who says… that thing you said just before. 🙈
From TV Tropes:
Qohen’s name comes from the Hebrew title of the book of Ecclesiastes, which suggests questions such as “What is the Meaning of Life?”
It looks a lot like “Brazil”, and feels a lot like “Brazil” if the characters can right out and said things like, “I am waiting for a phone call where I am told the meaning of life”, or “there is no meaning to life, and I find that comforting.”
In a (perhaps) similar vein i saw I <3 Huckabees while stoned not to long ago. I think its deep in a crazy way but maybe its just crazy
“A zygote is a gamete’s way of producing more gametes. This may be the purpose of the universe.” – Robert Heinlein
And yet that’s still a pretty parochial view of “the universe”
I suspect that the problem (for Dorothy) with those other professions is that you can’t help everybody one-at-a-time.
“Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody’s gonna die. Come watch TV.” – Morty (Rick and Morty)
“If nothing we do matters, the only things that matter are what we do.” – Angel (Angel)
Maybe living one’s life with every single decision under a microscope, grading oneself against making only immaculate decisions isn’t a practical way to do it.
I think Ruth’s advice doesn’t land because what she’s thinking when she says things like “live with integrity” or “be a little selfish” aren’t what Dorothy hears in those phrases. I think ultimately, Dorothy has to figure her shit out herself, she has to realize it’s ok to be ordinary. If Ruth manages to articulate some good advice, it’s still up to Dorothy to grok it.
It’s good for her that they’re expressing sympathy though. She’s opened up to both of them before, and she’s never been Future-President-Dorothy-Keener for them. There’s not an added feeling of disappointing them.
We could say that this pair’s interference at least helped Dorothy get over her anger, but it’s best not to assume that they are the definitive option.
Yes, Dorothy still has a lot to discover, but that doesn’t mean she has to do it alone, there must be someone who sees her as a human being and most of all, doesn’t idolize her.
It’s the hormones, Dorothy.
I have no psychological soothsaying to say tonight :(( I only wanna hug Dorothy super hard, and tell her to let go of this immense guilt she’s carrying because, fuck, that was relatable.
That or take her somewhere she can break things with a bat and yell freely.
PS: I HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN THE PLAYLIST, my Saturday ended up being kinda shitty. But I’m working on it ^^ Keep throwing Ruth/Jennifer songs at me!
SAME BRUH 😭😭😭🫂🫂🫂
I ended up sprinkling soothsaying through the comments BUT IT’S BECAUSE I WANNA HUG THIS POOR GIRL SO HARD, I GOTTA SHARE THAT EMOTION, BRUH. And y’know. Over explain why I wanna. Maybe do a powerpoint lecture. You know that feel.
I WANNA HUG HER TOO BRUH 😭😭😭🫂🫂🫂 major feels
“Or would, if I were immaculate at it” hurrrrt. And also reminded me of that Tumblr favorite: Suzanne Rivecca talking to her therapist about her perfectionism while writing (a quote that has always gutted me.)
“It has to be perfect. It has to be irreproachable in every way.”
“Why?” she said.
“To make up for it,” I said. “To make up for the fact that it’s me.”
I haven’t read anything by her, but damn. And I think this stupidly relatable thing is, too, what lies at the core of Dorothy. She’s a paladin. Of course she’ll fall apart if her cause is shown to be unrighteous and her skills lacking. Even more if it’s something she’s feared all along.
What I would say to Dorothy:
I know I’m not perfect and never will be. Reaching for perfection is how I stretch into the best I can be. So reach for it, and don’t be disappointed so long as you’ve done your best. Be the best of you. There may be no one else who could have done so well.
“how do you two make each other dumber” well that’d be a fun dynamic for some pairings less toxic than ruth/jen X D
…. did Ruth just deliver her “act with integrity” line during a “keep on trucking” talk?
I FUCKING LOVE WILLIS GJSLKDJG
Self Righteousness is the worst emotion/state of being.
I dunno bruh. There are a lot of shades of blue (a lot of blues, you could say), that are distinct yet all equally somewhere you don’t wanna be.
*Captain America smugly responds to Nick Fury*
Dumbing and Dumbinger of Age. EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I can’t really respond to the new poll just yet, the helping has to be in action first.
Poll-wise, I have to say that they’re doing an incredible job of helping Dorothy, inasmuch as they are not doing a credible job of helping her.
Dorothy has her own microscope! Maybe she can bring it to Becky & Dina and do Science with it? Seems a far healthier choice…
It is astounding how often the person that makes you dumber often seems like the person you end up living your life with…
Dorothy, you may be a narcissist. Just a hunch.
I think I speak for everyone when I say:
i don’t think this is an accurate or thoughtful examination of her assumptions
*symptoms
man I got the chance to speak for the world and I BLEW it!
Nah bruh, seems more like autism towards which she has severe internalized ableism 🥺
How could you possibly take that away from what she is saying?
I think Bryy may have meant Jennifer and typed the wrong name by accident?
Someone point to Dorothy that if she, one of the most helpful (or attempting to be) person she knows, is unworthy of existing due to the lack of efficacy of her helping, she’s also decreeing that most other people have no right nor reason to exist either.
She has yet to notice that casting herself as this heroic, messianic helper is massively arrogant.
“decreeing” lol
It’s interesting, because that’s really similar to what Jennifer got going on with her alpha bongo thing.
Jennifer X Dorothy!!!!
Yes, that sounds like a very helpful thing to point out right now, and would definitely lead to her being in a much better headspace.
I mean, she isn’t saying everyone reason for existing should be helping everyone, she is saying that hers is. This is less arrogance and more deep self deprecation. It’s kind of like saying people with anxiety are arrogant because they think people are constantly watching and judging them.
I think it’s weird to think she’s decreeing anything and talking about anyone but herself here…
I see where you’re coming from. She is judgmental, and usually she couches it a lot better than today’s strip. But like she does look down on other people. You don’t have to go looking through the archives, the punchline in today’s strip is an example.
Eh, in this case it’s less a judgement and more of a statement of facts. These two are acting pretty dumb right now.
It is a judgment you agree with.
Judging people is bad, and we should think less of Dorothy for doing it.
i also see where you’re coming from, but look.
brains do not operate on logical gates. one thing can be true in one part of the brain (like “self-image”) and another thing in another blob (“consideration for others”). ya know
Next book title:
– Ive found being self-righteous about being a pointless martyr to be a pretty good rush
OR
– how do you two make each other dumber
“…Make each other dumber, please.
Agreed. I came here specifically to suggest “How do you two make each other dumber” as a book title.
It feels like I’m not meant to like Ruth, but I do.
I don’t see any reason to not like Ruth here. She is hilarious and relatable.
Ruth is being REAL
Oh man Dorothy— how did you hit this point before middle age? Super impressive growth… but also I’m not as sure how you will come out the other side.
She had a head start. She’s been 30 for the past five years.
“Don’t you like the Maple Leafs, and good hockey?”
“Dammit, that’s five things.
Dorothy may not be religious, but this is some Catholic levels of guilt and self-judgement.
“By ‘get rid of one,’ I mean ‘take out with a sniper rifle.'”
“Take out”? Like on a date? Ruth & Billie learning to shoot a sniper rifle together, and flirting the whole time? Sounds great, I’m in!
Honestly Ruth’s point about being a “pointlessly self-righteous martyr” is probably exactly what Dorothy needs to hear. She’s self-destructing via sacrifice and it’s not doing anything she wants, which begs the question, then why are you doing it? What do *you* want? Which keeps looping back into “make no one hurt ever again,” repeating the cycle.
Yeah she maybe needed to hear that..but Ruth is not the person that should be saying it to her.
Especially because Ruth is talking about herself and saying it like it’s a good thing.
I think Dorothy is being kind of unfair — not unduly, though. Like yeah Ruth came to Dorothy for advice for something she was already going to do and blew it up deliberately which made Billie lash out at her for it and now she’s like “See, that was a good choice, I’m miserable but Billie won’t kill herself!”
So like yeah she’s right but Dorothy won’t hear it from anyone. She’s kind of the comic’s sin-eater.
Well that and she didn’t want to interact with these two hostile pools of agony in the first place.
How fair do you have to be to people you don’t actually want to engage with???
oh my gods, Ruth said the words
at this rate, next week everyone is gay and happy and nothing bad happens ever again
rate of self-honest communication, that is
but be gay do crime??
dorothy is definitely becoming their auspitice for sure
The audacity of Ruth telling someone to “act with integrity”, the incomprehensible audacity of that someone being Dorothy.
Ruth is absolutely still using this opportunity to rehash her relationship end with Jennifer to explain her reasons to Jennifer without actually having to directly spell them out to her. She is not lecturing Dorothy she’s using Dorothy as an opportunity to get closure or something more with Jennifer. It is pointless, hopefully Dotty will get a wake up call from this that actually she has it together and does more good than these chumps, so if they can exist and feel good about their contributions, surely she’s able to do better than that?
I love and relate to Ruth and Jennifer more than Dorothy btw, just hoping spite will power a rebound into more stable mental health for Dotty.
Or Ruth has the relationship ending insuperably top-of-mind right now (with Jennifer right there) and it infects everything she contributes to the conversation, even as she’s just trying to escape that bootless conversation.
Ruth clearly has a bright future in the Spanish Inquisition.
well i didn’t expect the spanish inquisish—
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
I knew someone was going to mention this.
Say the line,
BartRuth!I know they were more toxic than a wastewater treatment plant, but God I miss them together. Their current relationships are just so boring in comparison (which would be a good thing in real life, but this is fiction).
I love how they light up when they’re together, like stripped electrical wires
when they’re together there’s just this uncontrollable spark, like the opposite end of a plugged-in suicide cord
The true Dumbing of Age was the friends we made along the way (and the enemies. . . and the gay repression, love, and sex)
She said it, but will she regret it?
So, when is it going to dawn on Jennifer that the thing that Ruth loves, is her?
I’d assume it’s actually Howard, maybe not right now as Ruth may be trying to hint specifically that it’s Jennifer. Jennifer I’d assume suspects in some small part of her and is definitely trying to fish it out, in a way that feels like it may be reflective of the comic where she talks to Ruth about how she’s like booster.
Oof, that third panel hits too hard. I have loved ones who think like that. Hell, I’ve thought like that. I want to give her so many hugs right now
(Also, Jennifer… buddy. Stop and think for a minute, lmao)
I’ll be honest, I thought the second thing she loved WAS hockey.
Doesn’t she have a little brother?
I’m genuinely curious as to when Dotty got into this line of thinking. If we take her at word (with a grain of salt, this could be emotion/depression/reactive defensiveness talking), she seems to imagine a hard binary between:
A) I am an immaculate super-god who’s every single decision can stand up to microscopic scrutiny and can surely make other people happy and better.
B) I am incapable of helping and therefore have no reason to exist.
This sounds to me like logic you would feed to an evil computer to make it shut down. Just how long has she been shouldering this mentality, and where did it start?
We have not seen a flashback to her at 11 or whatever, but that would be my guess. It feels like the kind of thing she’s built her whole identity around, someone told her what great potential she had when she was impressionable, and https://www.gocomics.com/peanuts/1963/03/22 this happened, but internalized over a whole phase of life. The future-president thing is tied into it, and that’s not a High School Junior decides out of nowhere.
The first one is kind of incorrect, what she is saying is that she has spend all her life micro analyzing all of her own thoughts and actions, to try to be as good and efficient as she could could possibly be. She is just now getting to the point where that type of constant self made pressure is getting her to breakdown mentally.
Like many other people in the comments, I relate very hard to Dorothy in this strip, and while I can’t exactly speak to when Dorothy fell into this hard binary, I can certainly project my own opinions about myself onto her!
I think a lot of it stems from having an excess of freedom, power, and praise as a kid, and not enough direct guidance and supervision, while also having lots of general ideals pressed upon you by popular culture. All of that is very gradual, so there’s no one point you can point to as “the start of it all”, but over time this obsession with being perfect and helping everyone builds up. You notice that nobody is watching you too closely, for whatever reason, so you carefully construct a “microscope” in your own head to do the job, and improving it over time. You know being good means helping people, but it’s not really clear who, so just to be safe you assume you’re supposed to help everyone. You know you’re smart and powerful, but you’re not sure why, or what to do with all that power, so you take some kind of “smart and powerful” role from pop culture and never stop striving to emulate it. You don’t have a lot of rules being set for you, but you want to fit in, so you keep setting more and more rules for yourself until you forget what the heck they were all for in the first place (latent ASD may or may not help with this part). And all this combines to create a truly massive guilt-monster in your head that enforces precisely that hard binary we were originally talking about, even though absolutely nobody in your life outside of yourself ever wanted you to feel (or could even imagine you feeling) that way!
We haven’t seen much of Dorothy’s childhood, but we know her parents are pretty broadly supportive of her dreams and career goals, and we know that both parents had a Catholic upbringing but are currently non-religious and made sure Dorothy had the freedom to choose her own religion. We also know she was top of her class in high school, so it’s very plausible that she has a history of being considered a “gifted child” by the USA’s public school system. And I think that all has the very strong potential to create the conditions I was talking about – the power, praise, and freedom, minus direct guidance and supervision. Though like I said, I’m also definitely projecting a lot of stuff from my own upbringing (though my own grandparents are Protestant, not Catholic). Regardless, that’s my interpretation. Hope it was interesting, and helped answer your question, Dday!
I think you may be right.
“Look, no one’s going to judge you, or guilt you, or think less of you, or withhold love from you, if you’re not perfect.”
“But someone has to! Because… because someone has to! Okay, fine! I’ll do it (to) myself!”
🙁
Every moment in which I am a slight inconvenience for someone is a grave trespass for which I must earn redemption.
(In past depressive episodes, this would connect with such extreme internal reactions– like, I’d be driving, and another car would have to wait because I was also there, and I’d be like, “If I didn’t exist, they could’ve made that turn.”)
Wow… Dorothy is an even sadder character that I’ve always thought. That’s really awful, also really, REALLY naive. Panel 4 Ruth deserves to become a poster.
Jesus. A 19 year old, trying to succeed and wanting to help people, running headfirst into more of the harsh reality of life than many senators ever have or will – how awful and naive of her not to know better.
awful for her.
Man, Dorothy’s “Then what am I even existing for?!” thing hit me like a truck…
*wiggles eyebrows at fellow long-time Willis-readers* Eh? Eh?
i wonder if you feel any regrets about this comment
(i haven’t even read that comic) (but that strip’s been linked here a few times) (still iconic even without any context tbh)
This looks like an example of failed narcissism.
Dorothy needs to quit sweating the details and making all those details all about her. She thinks she is responsible for the world. She is not.
We really have destroyed the word narcissism, huh
I blame self-help gurus.
Seriously… as someone with a personality disorder in the same cluster, it’s so frustrating how the meaning of the word has been diluted and, worse, turned into a weapon against anybody the speaker doesn’t like
I love Dorothy’s line in the last panel.
SHE SAID THE THING HOLY SHIT