K so my nesting partner’s grandma’s funeral was actually a jolly time and also had a really silly lady who got up in the middle of the service and started yelling about seeing a rabbit in the clouds and it was hilarious and no one could stop themselves from laughing… so I mean YMMV lol
We were sad to lose my ancient bubbe / the beloved family matriarch, and also, the major coping strategy of my whole entire family is humor. Plenty of laughter that day.
I am lucky. Irish, and Russian, and Jewish. Grandpa’s funeral was a fucking blast. I miss him all the time, but the memories, the fun, the humor he had, and the joy and laughter he brought…all that came out at his wake. Always look back at the long life loved, and smile at the good memories.
the point where people bring out the dirty jobs is not uncommon on mexican funerals, not all of them will have them but if it happens on one you are… it certainly won’t be unique
The first, last, and only technically-wake funeral I attended, the deceased’s father read a letter he had written as a child, humorously requesting a raise of allowance, definitely filled the church with laughs
When I used to go to Saint Joseph’s in Newport, the early mass was followed by donuts in the lower room. I used to joke that I was going to make up a t-shirt that read; “I’m only here for the donuts!”
I’d say turn about is fair play but it’s clear Walky’s lying…maybe. Is there a really cool grandma or grandpa Walkerton that recently passed. Maybe a terminally ill uncle?
What you must understand is that Becky exists, and therefore is awful.
Walking with a friend who’s going the same place she is, answering his questions, pointing out he might be late for a thing he allegedly wants to do? Might as well have just kicked a hundred puppies.
Please note that Walky does not state that funerals are his only church experience. He states that he has been to church for funerals, and says nothing about whether he has been to church otherwise.
I think part of it is general grumpiness due to a combination of a)it being early b) him having been woken up last night/this morning, and c) him being out of his comfort zone, and Walky is someone who really doesn’t like being out of his comfort zone. Dressing up, being on time, doing something because your partner enjoys it, those all seem “mature” and “responsible” which clashes with Walky’s brand, and he has had to be a bit extra responsible lately and might be running low on spoons.
Ummm… “Tactic” is w.r.t. to “Deflect and make people feel a bit guilty for having asked” rather than church?
Most people view trying to not being late as basic manners? (Cultural differences apply with some places typically being far more laid back about this than others, and some genuinely feeling that if you’re late you’re basically stating your time is more important than other people’s and you don’t care about inconveniencing them… But like this is how you get into “10-15 minutes early is on time for an interview” and other situations where you want to make a good impression.)
At least in the UK, “come as you are” would also be a
Silly button and tired, ill fingers (middle child brought home lurgy. She and the youngest have since recovered. Husband, eldest and me are all ill. Eldest woke me up at 5 to let me know she felt bad and couldn’t sleep… is periodically making sure I’m suffering I know she’s suffering 😫)
*At least in the UK, “come as you are” would also be a standard idiom, with no religious affiliation or connotations, but we have very few independent churches (https://faithsurvey.co.uk/uk-christianity.html – apparently a few hundred thousand attendees – but with only about 5% of the overall population routinely going to church even though close to 46% of the population surveyed identified as Christian in 2021)… Apparently we’re one of the least religious countries! (Honestly, when I started reading this comic my initial reaction to Joyce telling Sarah she was a fundie was to laugh because I assumed she was joking because that would be SO unlikely over here…)
in the US “come as you are” isn’t heard so much these days, and usually said of parties, but I note that there is a church song titled “Come As You Are”. (Not the one by Nirvana.) And another that I can’t locate just now in which these words are the central theme.
A relic of the end of the days of dressing in your “Sunday best” for church? In the transition, churches had to let people know that wasn’t expected at their church, but now that it’s not the expectation any more there’s no need.
I mean yeah. Only months after attending a funeral held at a church for a friend literally killed by another church, what does Becky expect Walky to do? Put on a happy face?
Not every idea Walky has is automatically fun for him. He’s agreed to this because he’s still bent on trying to cure his mom’s racism, namely via Lucy showing pff how Christian™ she is to Linda.
It isn’t. She’s trying to get Walky to see the fun in something which she thinks is but a chore to him.
As well as she means, she isn’t accounting for the role church played in his fairly recent trauma and its aftermath. These strong feelings he has towards church are something that will not go away any time soon.
Okay but NGPZ, you replied to a comment about her using the language and ideology of a cult seemingly in agreement, and I don’t see what any of this has to do with that.
Walky let Becky in on the baggage that surrounds church for him in relation to his recent trauma, only for her to invalidate his display of emotional vulnerability by deeming nothing more than a “tactic to shut down the conversation”.
It is very much a cultist habit that Becky would put who she perceived as a critic of church into a no-win position. If the critic fails to persuade her away, they lose. If they succeed at persuading, it means they must be “cheating” somehow, therefore they lose.
Here Becky is falling back on conversation patterns that feel familiar to her without even thinking about it, as per her indoctrinators’ intentions. As well as she means, I can only hope she addresses these old habits before she puts herself into a position where she can hurt herself and others.
I strongly suspect you’re reading way too far into that, and in a way that is disproportionately unkind to Becky. Walky does have a pattern of deflecting in this way, and this fits not only that pattern, but the same pattern that Becky has, thus she recognizes it.
Also Walky isn’t just a perceived critic, he’s an actual critic, and in a way that isn’t actually all that reasonable. “Come as you are so long as it’s on time” is a pretty reasonable expectation for almost anything, including their classes. And he’s being a little snide about it because he dressed up more than he technically had to.
Becky’s starting assumption that he had any experience at all with going to church was faulty (whether or not he actually had) but not unreasonable given her life experience. And Walky’s invocation of funerals was absolutely a deflection. Note that it didn’t actually address the reason behind the question. If this was an attempt to open up, it was a pretty inappropriate one. He absolutely said it in a way that is true while being an emotional cudgel.
I’m not saying that Walky’s being a terrible person here, he’s just grumpy because he’s dressed more formally than fits his maximum comfort level and he was woken up abruptly, too early, and frankly rudely. Putting so much wrong on Becky here is off base.
Becky’s indoctrinators are really the ones in the wrong here, not Becky herself. She is using tools from her social toolbox that she knows just work, and it really isn’t her fault that she was never given any outside of that which were intended to evangelize, recruit and marginalize other people in favor of her church — tools that were designed to make that process so subtle and smooth that much of the time ordinary people don’t even realize that it’s happening, let alone Becky herself.
Indoctrination can be a sly, tough beast to combat, hence Dina’s patience and effort in breaking those chains on her girlfriend’s behalf. Dina knows that Becky was never given any room for growth for much of her life, and that she’s willing to reform socially and intellectually if just given the time and place to do so.
Walky is but Becky’s friend, and as far as I can tell he’s not really obliged to have that level of patience or forgiveness here, especially given he’s got his own baggage he’s gonna confront where he’s heading.
Either way, like you said, I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I also agree that tools from Becky’s cult are by no means exclusively used by Becky, or even just her cult. Walky, Lucy and other cast members use them as well.
We must not forget that this comic takes place in Indiana, and much of the cast are but college freshman and are in some way or another heavily embedded in the culture, customs, and language of a religious red state.
I intended not to dissect or attack Becky as a person, but analyze her cult’s rhetoric, precisely because the rhetoric of religious and political cults alike is designed by their leaders to proliferate the groups themselves. It’s meant to be unwittingly picked up and spread by ordinary people to legitimize extremist ideologies, make said ideologies more palatable to those in America’s religious and political mainstream, and eventually recruit them.
It’s precisely because Christian/conservative cults are so effective at this that their techniques are used by a lot more than just these extremists — they are small but disproportionately influential groups within the region in which the comic is set, and even at a liberal university setting their pervasive influence is one that cannot be overstated.
This may be a surprise: I’m pretty critical of religions.
But I think Walky and Becky are just having a conversation where clarification was needed and Walky sidetracked himself with jokes. Becky’s not doing anything wrong or cultish, and Walky’s just being a little annoying in his standard way of refusing to have a serious conversation about anything.
Walky tried to bring up an actual painful experience in a way that was meant to shut Becky up. Recognizing your friend’s patterns, like how they avoid actually vulnerability by using using the mention of this topics to attack and deflect, is not a “cult” maneuver. There’s truth to what Walky’s saying, and they could try to dig into it, but that’s not why he brought it up.
The death of Mike and his funeral had a profound effect all the cast including Walky, and I just don’t see him revealing to Becky that church reminds him of his trauma like this is a deflection or attack? He’s not dodging vulnerability here, that’s literally just him being vulnerable?
It’s not. It’s like Becky says– but even if she were wrong, that wouldn’t be a cult thing. People will say things that, yes, are true and do affect them in various ways, but with the purpose of avoiding other things. And it’s a pattern that comes up with both of these two, so thinking that’s what’s happening is entirely reasonable.
This is not him actually being open and vulnerable. I don’t think I’m going to convince you, but I was kinda overwhelmed by how wild and off I found your take on this.
Perhaps I have overthought this particular interaction between them a little much. I guess that much is a given sometimes when you suck at reading people in general. 😮💨
Either what’s going on here is a borrowed cult-tactic or it isn’t (not that I can tell, evidently), and regardless conscious effort must be made to discern them given how well they ingrain themselves into everyday interactions and systems. This especially goes for a place like Indiana — the pervasive influence of Christian/conservative cults in this region is that which cannot be overstated, even among students in a liberal University.
I thought he was going there to support something that Lucy would likely enjoy, something she’d find highly supportive and affirming. He’s trying to make up for the disastrous meeting with his racist mom.
It was only Lucy’s idea that her churchiness could help win Linda over. We don’t know if Walky has the misconception that Linda can be won.
Or at least the misconception that going to church will do anything to accomplish that. Is there even any reason Linda will know he went to church? I mean he could tell her, but it all just seems weird if church wasn’t a family thing they did.
No, Lucy is the one who thought it might make a good impression on his parents. Walky only offered to cheer her up after a shitty day of having his mom be racist at her
I uh, hm. And exactly how brainwashed are you viewing Becky as being here? Cause she’s honestly just being pretty normal. Like, this is your average, non-fundie Christian. I get it, I mean, I have my own religious trauma born from the Southern brand of Christian but even as an agnostic I can’t say she reads as brainwashed here.
Fundamentalist secularists view anything someone religious/spiritual does as cultish, stupid,.and worthy of contempt. I, a disabled queer, have literally been called a Nazi because I am a Christian.
It’s just taking the religious fundamentalism and moving it to atheist fundamentalism.
It’s annoying, but given American politics.. I don’t think it’s dangerous beyond being insulting to reasonable religious people.
I feel like secularism is being conflated with reddit-style asshole atheism here tho?
“Secular” is often mistakenly used as a synonym for “atheistic”, but secular thinkers can be non-religious or religious — secularism just means the person isn’t bringing religious faith into the matter.
That’s a fair point if we’re going by the dictionary but I was attempting to include agnostic fundamentalists. Which you’d think would be a contradiction in terms given that the entire point of agnostic is “It’s unknowable” or “I don’t know” — but I literally lived with one for a few years in my 20s.
Yuuuuup that’s just about the kinda shit you can expect from reddit-variety asshole atheists who act like 12-year-olds who just discovered the word “communist” 😑
Great, now you’ve got me wanting so see the atheist/non-religious equivalent of a those stupid Jehovah’s Witnesses* who come up to your door and harass you. Except instead of showing up in an unmarked black SUV multiple times a month, for several months, and leaving things on your patio or under your windshield wipers*, they give you print-outs of their favorite Reddit threads or something.
*This actually happened to me last year, to the point I became increasingly paranoid every time I heard a car in the driveway.
The only thing I know about them is that if you drive by their main building in Burbank real slow, playing weird music, they’ll crowd around your car and get into scary crouching positions like Rita Repulsa’s Putties.
“fundamentalist secularist”
“Ironically, it’s secularism as a cult”
that’s you lying because you’re trying to be offensive. “Cult” is a word that has a meaning, and it does not apply, just like “fundamentalist” has a meaning that does not apply. so… fuck off? that’s what you’re looking for, right?
If David Willis is reading these comments: 1. Hi! *waves* 2. Does Joe ever take Joyce to the UI Hillel for any services there? She could learn how God is viewed through other religions and maybe that could help her either find her way back to a faith she can handle or further refine her atheism. Just a thought. 🙂
I honestly don’t know how incense is still used knowing what we know about asthma and migraines. I went to an Orthodox funeral once and had to leave halfway through.
It isn’t. Incense hasn’t been used in Judaism in any form since the destruction of the second Temple. I’m not sure where C.T. got the impression that it was?
My husband has asthma and was raised catholic. he had a lot of asthma attacks growing up and still can’t stand the smell of sandalwood, even if it’s not smoke
“try deism” was when I realized Dorothy didn’t know shit about what Joyce went through.
atheists aren’t lost needing to find a way back to a faith. learning about different religions is one thing, but fuck me why everyone thinks atheists are a prize to be won.
I won’t pretend to speak for every atheist but I legitimately did not like being an atheist.
I don’t think religious people should try and push their narratives onto people, but, well, some atheists are lost. I was.
I’ve heard that somewhere before, that “lost” thing regarding religion. It feels really ominous, for some reason. Could you maybe explain what you mean about it?
If it is something you haven’t experienced it is hard to describe.
I think some of it may be bipolar now that I think about it.
It’s like a..an empty feeling.
Like your life is unmoored.
Like it’s dark and there is no light.
Like everything is mist.
When I think of religious people getting lost I think of losing themselves in extremism.
But also.. having faith that I do now isn’t a cure all.
I still feel that emptiness much of the time.
I just believe that God is looking out for me now.
On the good days I feel very close to the Divine Presence.
On the bad days, I don’t.
I’ve been having a lot of bad days the last year.
Joyce isn’t an atheist because she “likes being an atheist”.
For me, it’s pretty frustrating that there’s not any supernatural entities or cosmic force that makes sure there’s justice for everyone. That can’t make me believe any supernatural cosmology is accurate.
Being an atheist has never been comfortable for me.
But it is the only thing that I’ve experienced to far that has felt true, and every effort to understand things better only further cements that feeling of truth to me. I can understand believing in God because dealing with a godless reality is just that stressful, but I cannot accept people who allow themselves to be used by others to increase net human suffering and uphold traditions that regularly disadvantage much of the world. Follow what religion you like, I just hope you are not giving any person or religious body money or political support based on it. I hope you are not forming opinions and judgments of others based on what people wrote in scripture hundreds to thousands of years ago. My mum is a unitarian universalist, they seem like genuinely good, well-intentioned people. I still don’t trust that any money given to unitarian universalist churches isn’t getting put into politics, and it’d be naïve of me to assume it was going only to progressive causes.
I was commenting on my personal experience with atheism.
It didn’t work for me.
Of course my faith impacts how I vote, how I spend money.
If it doesn’t impact what you do, then…do you even have faith?
That’s like saying “I’m pro choice” and then not doing anything about it.
I am pro choice, so I vote Democrat.
I am a Quaker, specifically Friends General Conference, or Hicksite.
I am a Universalist.
I am possibly a Unitarian.
I’m politically in the same place as most UU folks more than likely I simply don’t care for the traditional liturgy style with a non-traditional syncretism.
Because apparently we “haven’t picked a side” and can be “won over” to the “correct side”. That is, unless we “refuse to hear the truth” and they just “pray for [our] souls” instead.
The creepy part of that “pray for your soul” thing is, some of ’em probably do. Like, they kneel beside their bed (why is that even a thing) and do their whole spiel, and then at some point during it they say some shit like “And by the way, please don’t strike down that otherwise nice person I met at Midwest FurFest this weekend.”
I mean, yes, she doesn’t get what Joyce has been through, and the deism idea was perhaps ill-judged, but it wasn’t about “winning” her for anything — quite the reverse; she could have claimed she’d “won” Joyce for atheism, but she didn’t!
I also do actually think Dorothy has a pretty good idea of what Joyce has been through (and has been traumatised by association to it), but knowing what someone has experienced doesn’t automatically mean you know what to do for them. Especially in Joyce’s case. I see it as Dotty spitballing, trying to be helpful, because she isn’t used to feeling helpless (again referencing the trauma dream.)
I was giving that as an example of someone (an atheist even) not understanding what it’s like to become an atheist from asking yourself if any version of your god(s) really exist, while desperately wanting them to, but realizing they don’t believe it.
Dorothy does not understand apostasy. She’s trying to be helpful, but she’s out of her depth and doesn’t know it.
Judaism doesn’t work that way. It isn’t concerned with bringing non-Jews into the fold the way that Christianity is. If Joyce were a non-practicing Jew, it’d be one thing, and if she wanted to attend a service they’d let her sit in, but there’s zero drive to convert gentiles.
True story: a pair of Hasidic young adults knocked on the door to my workplace a few weeks ago, on a Friday. Our conversation went like this:
Hasidic Duo: Hi, are there any Jews who work here?
Me: Uh, just me, but I can’t really talk on account that I’m working.
Hasidic Duo: Well, will you be available to chat after work?
Me: Not really? Also I already have Shabbos plans. (Technically true, even if it was just to visit my parents that evening.)
Hasidic Duo: Oh okay.
They left after that and haven’t been back. This isn’t even the first time that’s happened to me, although the last one was several years ago.
So, you experienced a literal “Two Jews go to a place and interact with somebody” story-joke? I wonder which stage of it you were part of, like if they went to multiple buildings and asked the same question, and what the eventual punchline was. Probably something sorta dry, with some clever wordplay involved.
Having Googled it, Galileo was still a Christian.
As a Christian who believes in science, mysticism, and inner experience I view this as ‘Galileo became bored with the ritual of Catholicism during a service and pondered Creation, discovering truth’
Interesting. I always thought that “Quakers” was just an unofficial name given to them by other Christian groups, and that they preferred to refer to themselves as The Society of Friends.
LOL. Quakers have been around for centuries, but until the early 1900s, oatmeal was considered animal feed that was unfit for human consumption. That changed when Henry Crowell launched a national advertising campaign headed by an icon designed to appeal to the Christian majority influenced by the temperance movement.
“until the 1900s” sounds apocryphal. oatcakes have been eaten for centuries in Scotland, and I think eating oatmeal porridge features in a pre-Christian Irish myth.
Unfun fact — we have nothing to do with Quaker Oats.
Our likeness and name was approprated by an English businessman who co-opted our image as trustworthy.
But I think NGPZ means “until the 1900s in America“.
(And England. Famed Scot-hater Dr Samuel Johnson defined oats in his dictionary as “a grain which in England is generally given to horses, but in Scotland supports the people”.)
There is actually a song on this premise, that used to be played on the Ken Bruce show on BBC Radio 2 every December.
Santa’s a Scotsman, he’s loved everywhere he goes.
He moved from Glasgow to Lapland, following Rudolph’s nose.
Santa’s a Scotsman, come on, make a fuss.
Too many pies, not enough exercise, of course he’s one of us!
Fun Quaker fact, the first (or at least one of the first) religious groups founded in the US after the declaration of independence was a Quaker denomination called “Society of Universal Friends”. Founded by a Quaker named Public Universal Friend, who was non-binary. With the pronoun “the Friend”.
I first found out from PUF from a trans woman lesbian D&D module designer who was my introduction to the faith. She’s part of why I chose Quakerism, insofar as she introduced me to it.
We call ourselves both. The public know us best as Quakers, amongst ourselves we tend to say ‘Friends’. The full nomenclature is rather wordy. The original name was ‘Children of the Light’s which sounds vaguely cultish.
Personally, I tend towards the descriptive, rather than prescriptive theory of language (or try to) and Quakers is by far more common. It’s also less typing.
The only downside was the name gave my poor partner quite a fright. They confused us with Pentecostals.
We call ourselves both. The public know us best as Quakers, amongst ourselves we tend to say ‘Friends’. The full nomenclature is rather wordy. The original name was ‘Children of the Light’s which sounds vaguely cultish.
Personally, I tend towards the descriptive, rather than prescriptive theory of language (or try to) and Quakers is by far more common. It’s also less typing.
The only downside was the name gave my poor partner quite a fright. They confused us with Pentecostals.
If I recall correctly, the name “Children of the Lights” is a reference to the belief that the “Light of God” is something that resides within all humans, and that salvation is a matter of bringing out that light, and therefore their good, the common christian concept of “Original Sin” not withstanding within Quakerism. Is this accurate? (genuine ask)
Quakers refer to God as ‘The Light’s or ‘The Inward Light’ and other names.
I personally use ‘Silence’.
Broadly speaking, Quakerism is an Orthopraxy, nor an Orthodoxy. It’s more about what you do than what you believe compared to many Christian sects — we have a core of shared beliefs, but they are not binding. The one thing I can think of that would be is pacifism, or at least being anti war.
Our founder stated “there is that of God in everyone.”
The idea of this bit of God, this bit of Light being inside all of us is core to Quaker identity.
Salvation isn’t. Neither is Trinitsrianism, neither is observation of the sacraments.
The best part of youth group at my church was when they had food. Often popcorn, brownies, or (my favorite) doughnuts. I especially enjoyed the blueberry ones and those crowler ones.
The second best part of youth group was that they had an old driver-arcade game in the back. I used to tag along with my mom when she ran the program and play on that if she didn’t need my help.
if they had grown up/gone to church together i imagine them being bad influences on each other assuming all their parents owuldn’t keep them away from each other/walkys parents being just religious enough to punish walky for ‘misbehaving’ in church lol
It’s very understandable that Becky would ask these questions, and even be a little confused, considering Walky’s parents famously sent their daughter to a catholic reform school out of state. Personally, I’d have at least expected the. To be c&e catholics based on that information.
She’s asking because she knows not everyone grew up going to church. “What is expected of me?” needed more context. And instead of providing it, Walky made a joke. Annoying sometimes, but it’s fine. But it means Becky has to explicitly ask.
They should be better friends. The only other people Walky has consistently gotten along with are the girls he’s dated. Becky could be a good friend with no emotional baggage between them.
Obviously Walky is just so ruggedly attractive that no straight woman could stand to be friendzoned by him, so his only recourse is to make friends with lesbians. It’s the only way!
given that church is usually first thing in the morning for ppl there’s prolly a donut store you could find/walk around to afterwards if not before lol i’m sure there have been parents that have bribed their kids with food klike mcdonalds after church
I’m calling it now: Tomorrow, when Becky says something to the effect of ‘You don’t have to come if you don’t want to’, she will immediately be the monster who is trying to break up Walky and Lucy, because she cannot stand to see straights in a relationship. Possibly angling for a threesome between herself, Dina, and Lucy.
Yeah, it’s kind of wild how some folks in the comments section really have reached BEC* levels of hate for Becky. I’ve found her annoying sometimes but I can’t even understand what anyone’s objection is here, and nobody who’s said she’s doing something wrong has bothered to explain what exactly she did that was wrong. Or even approximately.
*for anyone unfamiliar with this, it stands for Bongo Eating Crackers, as in “Look at that Bongo eating crackers over there like she owns the place”, as in hating someone to the degree that even non-objectionable things tick them off if it’s that person doing them.
I’ve never really had any experience with church either, actually, now that I think about it. I’m in Walky’s boat here. Lemme go get my jammies back on!!
I hope Walky doesn’t feel as uncomfortable setting foot in church as I did. I’ve only been to one, an Anglican easter service in high school, and I felt like such a fraud that I’ve never set foot in another since. I literally felt like I was going to catch fire when I crossed the threshold.
It’ll be interesting to see how he reacts. Unless there’s a strip I’m forgetting that says otherwise, I get the sense that he’s agnostic in the sense of “nobody has ever required me to consider if God exists or not, so I haven’t”. And that might actually be worse than being atheist in this situation. Like, when I go to a church, it’s just a building. It’s probably a very nice building, and I’ll get a sense of gravitas and history (Mum was also atheist and loved looking round old churches. She also accompanied my aunt to midnight mass at Christmas), and if there’s a sermon I will listen politely as long as it isn’t fundie nonsense, but I wouldn’t worry too much what a God I don’t believe in thinks about me being there.
(Actually, that makes me sound a more committed atheist than I actually am. It would be more accurate to say that the part of my mind that wonders if I might be wrong thinks that if God does exist, he’s probably a chill dude.)
Coffee is pretty standard at all the churches I’ve been to and baked goods like donuts are pretty common (although more often donut holes or like a coffee cake which is easier to share). The catch is that it is for after the service (although sometimes you can grab some coffee before).
Becky, just tell him the agenda so he doesn’t worry (so much) about doing the Wrong Thing. I’m a regular attender and I’d have the same question when visiting elsewhere.
TOR? Becky’s gonna introduce Walky to the fantastic world of gay sex dark web, then? Gonna teach him how to buy magic mushrooms and get ’em sent straight to his door?
What? Professor Chucklenuts is just teaching out of the latest edition of the textbook, “Economics: From Your Wallet to the World, Sixth Edition” by Professor Chucklenuts. The fifth edition was last year’s book, all those $5 used copies you see listed online are irrelevant now. You don’t want him to teach you outdated information, do you?
Following that with “Becky’s going to introduce Walky to sci-fi paperbacks” feels like a serious failure to escalate, but it was the first thing I thought of.
Seems like “Come as you are, so long as it’s on time” is a pretty reasonable expectation tbh. Not much of a gotcha from Walky there.
I can’t blame him for not being super enthusiastic about this (for a number of reasons), but the decision to go was in the end on him, in support of a relationship he doesn’t seem very enthusiastic about in a way that I think he knows won’t be very effective.
Seems to me like the boy is operating purely on momentum here and maybe someone needs to break that momentum and ask Walky what he actually wants at this point. And like…”I don’t know” would be a valid answer, but he’s putting an awful lot of effort (which by his own brand he hates doing) for something that he doesn’t seem to want all that badly.
If the one thing about his brand that changes is “not trying,” that’s probably for the best. I mean, it’s cool to be on brand, but it’s hard to be any kind of even middling success if you don’t try. Smarts can only get you so far. I say this as a Walky Stan. I just love the little guy too much to want to see him screw up his life, and it’s ok to figure out things as you go.
I’m starting to get the feeling that he sees Lucy as so focused on the objective lying just beyond Date #3 that the dates themselves don’t matter, and he’s feeling his efforts to be a good boyfriend are a bit wasted?
I have always hated that in any context. “Come as you are” “There’s no wrong way” “No expectations”… it simply doesn’t communicate anything. Or, rather, what it communicates is that the speaker has never fully interrogated their expectations, doesn’t really know what those expectations are, and doesn’t appreciate how different other people can be.
There’s ALWAYS a wrong way. There’s always a way to be rude, insensitive, or shocking, and often it’s nowhere near as obvious to an outsider as you might imagine.
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cooold
However, it looks very pretty. Mr. Willis sure went all out on the background this time, and it looks great.
And the low angle of the sun checks out too. That takes effort when moving the “camera” around this early in the day.
Cold in real life too!
Walky: Fine, you got me. I don’t, as far as I know, have any particular trauma related to religion.
Becky: Good. Just sit there and be quiet as a church mouse.
Walky: AHH!
Priest: Now if everyone would please open your hymnals…
Walky: AHHHHH!
oh, right. There was THAT 😀
Awe yes. I forgot as well.
Between trauma and utter cringe, Walky understandably has but negative associations with church throughout his entire life.
haven’t been to the HAPPY funerals, huh (the ones that put FUN in funeral!)
K so my nesting partner’s grandma’s funeral was actually a jolly time and also had a really silly lady who got up in the middle of the service and started yelling about seeing a rabbit in the clouds and it was hilarious and no one could stop themselves from laughing… so I mean YMMV lol
We were sad to lose my ancient bubbe / the beloved family matriarch, and also, the major coping strategy of my whole entire family is humor. Plenty of laughter that day.
Those are called “wakes”.
Ours was Jewish, so it wasn’t a wake, but yes, wakes can definitely be a good time.
See also: jazz funerals of New Orleans
I am lucky. Irish, and Russian, and Jewish. Grandpa’s funeral was a fucking blast. I miss him all the time, but the memories, the fun, the humor he had, and the joy and laughter he brought…all that came out at his wake. Always look back at the long life loved, and smile at the good memories.
i can imagine walky or a couple others ending up having their funeral service end up as ajoke or huge party lol
Neither have I, but now I’ve got “the Night Pat Murphy died” running through my head
My Uncle Bob spent my Grandmonther’s funeral out in the lobby telling dirty jokes. But that was my Uncle Bob!
the point where people bring out the dirty jobs is not uncommon on mexican funerals, not all of them will have them but if it happens on one you are… it certainly won’t be unique
meant to reply but forgot due to NaNoWriMo
The first, last, and only technically-wake funeral I attended, the deceased’s father read a letter he had written as a child, humorously requesting a raise of allowance, definitely filled the church with laughs
Walky: I am refusing to participate in this veneration of the God Emperor. Praise Chaos!
Hail Eris!
Even GOOD doughnuts wouldn’t drag me to a Christian church.
Would you go to one of Torm or Pelor?
I went to midnight Chrismas mass at a Catholic church a few years ago, but that was because i wanted to hear the pipe organ.
Right? I mean, you can just buy doughnuts any time you want, guilt- and sermon-free.
When I used to go to Saint Joseph’s in Newport, the early mass was followed by donuts in the lower room. I used to joke that I was going to make up a t-shirt that read; “I’m only here for the donuts!”
I’d say turn about is fair play but it’s clear Walky’s lying…maybe. Is there a really cool grandma or grandpa Walkerton that recently passed. Maybe a terminally ill uncle?
If you’re making a joke, I don’t want to be the one to ruin it.
If you have to question it then I guess it didn’t land. 😛 Sarcasm’s really hard to convey in just text.
it did. mine didn’t though (check the formatting)
Lol.
Holy hell, is Walky…insecure about having never been to church? Or just grouchy and not wanting to keep the conversation going?
Yes! Definitely.
Becky’s being an asshole, too.
How so?
What you must understand is that Becky exists, and therefore is awful.
Walking with a friend who’s going the same place she is, answering his questions, pointing out he might be late for a thing he allegedly wants to do? Might as well have just kicked a hundred puppies.
I’m not Becky’s biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination but I don’t see anything wrong here, in fact it’s quite refreshing
Mike just died?
Come on. So you don’t like my comment, that’s great. Leave it at that. No reason to get aggressive.
this is literally the nicest, least assholey Becky has ever been, I don’t get what you’re seeing here.
He brought it up. If he suddenly wants it to end, it’s because he’s uncomfortable.
Though if his parents never took him to church, I have to question why he thinks it’ll impress them.
He doesn’t. That was Lucy who said that.
His grandma took him to church. He hated it.
Why would we suppose he’s trying to impress his parents? I never for a moment thought he wasn’t doing this for Lucy.
Because that’s what they said? It was their plan.
To be fair, their plans are very bad.
Please note that Walky does not state that funerals are his only church experience. He states that he has been to church for funerals, and says nothing about whether he has been to church otherwise.
As Becky notes, this is a tactic.
I think part of it is general grumpiness due to a combination of a)it being early b) him having been woken up last night/this morning, and c) him being out of his comfort zone, and Walky is someone who really doesn’t like being out of his comfort zone. Dressing up, being on time, doing something because your partner enjoys it, those all seem “mature” and “responsible” which clashes with Walky’s brand, and he has had to be a bit extra responsible lately and might be running low on spoons.
I’d love to see a flashback to Mike’s funeral at some point, though I’m not sure it would really open up that much story-potential-wise.
[mystery character] rageflips coffin into grave
Not a Baker’s Dozen?
Welp. I guess that answers my question as to how brainwashed Becky still is, exactly.
By brainwashed, do you mean still a believer in progressive Christianity?
I mean still using the language and ideaology of a cult.
What language?
“Come as you are,” “be late,” and “tactic.” Very cultish and ideological.
Ummm… “Tactic” is w.r.t. to “Deflect and make people feel a bit guilty for having asked” rather than church?
Most people view trying to not being late as basic manners? (Cultural differences apply with some places typically being far more laid back about this than others, and some genuinely feeling that if you’re late you’re basically stating your time is more important than other people’s and you don’t care about inconveniencing them… But like this is how you get into “10-15 minutes early is on time for an interview” and other situations where you want to make a good impression.)
At least in the UK, “come as you are” would also be a
Silly button and tired, ill fingers (middle child brought home lurgy. She and the youngest have since recovered. Husband, eldest and me are all ill. Eldest woke me up at 5 to let me know she felt bad and couldn’t sleep… is periodically making sure
I’m suffering I know she’s suffering 😫)*At least in the UK, “come as you are” would also be a standard idiom, with no religious affiliation or connotations, but we have very few independent churches (https://faithsurvey.co.uk/uk-christianity.html – apparently a few hundred thousand attendees – but with only about 5% of the overall population routinely going to church even though close to 46% of the population surveyed identified as Christian in 2021)… Apparently we’re one of the least religious countries! (Honestly, when I started reading this comic my initial reaction to Joyce telling Sarah she was a fundie was to laugh because I assumed she was joking because that would be SO unlikely over here…)
Spot the broken close tag 🤦🏻♀️ sorry!
in the US “come as you are” isn’t heard so much these days, and usually said of parties, but I note that there is a church song titled “Come As You Are”. (Not the one by Nirvana.) And another that I can’t locate just now in which these words are the central theme.
A relic of the end of the days of dressing in your “Sunday best” for church? In the transition, churches had to let people know that wasn’t expected at their church, but now that it’s not the expectation any more there’s no need.
You know I just picked some words she said at random, right? To highlight the absurdity of the initial claim that they are “cult” words?
I mean yeah. Only months after attending a funeral held at a church for a friend literally killed by another church, what does Becky expect Walky to do? Put on a happy face?
You say that like she’s dragging him along with her. It was his idea.
Not every idea Walky has is automatically fun for him. He’s agreed to this because he’s still bent on trying to cure his mom’s racism, namely via Lucy showing pff how Christian™ she is to Linda.
And how exactly is that Becky‘s fault?
It isn’t. She’s trying to get Walky to see the fun in something which she thinks is but a chore to him.
As well as she means, she isn’t accounting for the role church played in his fairly recent trauma and its aftermath. These strong feelings he has towards church are something that will not go away any time soon.
Okay but NGPZ, you replied to a comment about her using the language and ideology of a cult seemingly in agreement, and I don’t see what any of this has to do with that.
Walky let Becky in on the baggage that surrounds church for him in relation to his recent trauma, only for her to invalidate his display of emotional vulnerability by deeming nothing more than a “tactic to shut down the conversation”.
It is very much a cultist habit that Becky would put who she perceived as a critic of church into a no-win position. If the critic fails to persuade her away, they lose. If they succeed at persuading, it means they must be “cheating” somehow, therefore they lose.
Here Becky is falling back on conversation patterns that feel familiar to her without even thinking about it, as per her indoctrinators’ intentions. As well as she means, I can only hope she addresses these old habits before she puts herself into a position where she can hurt herself and others.
I strongly suspect you’re reading way too far into that, and in a way that is disproportionately unkind to Becky. Walky does have a pattern of deflecting in this way, and this fits not only that pattern, but the same pattern that Becky has, thus she recognizes it.
We’ll see as this continues to develop I guess.
Also Walky isn’t just a perceived critic, he’s an actual critic, and in a way that isn’t actually all that reasonable. “Come as you are so long as it’s on time” is a pretty reasonable expectation for almost anything, including their classes. And he’s being a little snide about it because he dressed up more than he technically had to.
Becky’s starting assumption that he had any experience at all with going to church was faulty (whether or not he actually had) but not unreasonable given her life experience. And Walky’s invocation of funerals was absolutely a deflection. Note that it didn’t actually address the reason behind the question. If this was an attempt to open up, it was a pretty inappropriate one. He absolutely said it in a way that is true while being an emotional cudgel.
I’m not saying that Walky’s being a terrible person here, he’s just grumpy because he’s dressed more formally than fits his maximum comfort level and he was woken up abruptly, too early, and frankly rudely. Putting so much wrong on Becky here is off base.
And given that Walky leans deeper into the tactic with the “you’ve opened a wound” and the donuts, I’d say she’s right on the money.
Walky’s deflecting and she recognizes it, because it’s a thing she does too.
Becky’s indoctrinators are really the ones in the wrong here, not Becky herself. She is using tools from her social toolbox that she knows just work, and it really isn’t her fault that she was never given any outside of that which were intended to evangelize, recruit and marginalize other people in favor of her church — tools that were designed to make that process so subtle and smooth that much of the time ordinary people don’t even realize that it’s happening, let alone Becky herself.
Indoctrination can be a sly, tough beast to combat, hence Dina’s patience and effort in breaking those chains on her girlfriend’s behalf. Dina knows that Becky was never given any room for growth for much of her life, and that she’s willing to reform socially and intellectually if just given the time and place to do so.
Walky is but Becky’s friend, and as far as I can tell he’s not really obliged to have that level of patience or forgiveness here, especially given he’s got his own baggage he’s gonna confront where he’s heading.
Either way, like you said, I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I also agree that tools from Becky’s cult are by no means exclusively used by Becky, or even just her cult. Walky, Lucy and other cast members use them as well.
We must not forget that this comic takes place in Indiana, and much of the cast are but college freshman and are in some way or another heavily embedded in the culture, customs, and language of a religious red state.
I intended not to dissect or attack Becky as a person, but analyze her cult’s rhetoric, precisely because the rhetoric of religious and political cults alike is designed by their leaders to proliferate the groups themselves. It’s meant to be unwittingly picked up and spread by ordinary people to legitimize extremist ideologies, make said ideologies more palatable to those in America’s religious and political mainstream, and eventually recruit them.
It’s precisely because Christian/conservative cults are so effective at this that their techniques are used by a lot more than just these extremists — they are small but disproportionately influential groups within the region in which the comic is set, and even at a liberal university setting their pervasive influence is one that cannot be overstated.
*proliferate beyond the groups themselves.
Could have sworn I typed that…
This may be a surprise: I’m pretty critical of religions.
But I think Walky and Becky are just having a conversation where clarification was needed and Walky sidetracked himself with jokes. Becky’s not doing anything wrong or cultish, and Walky’s just being a little annoying in his standard way of refusing to have a serious conversation about anything.
Walky tried to bring up an actual painful experience in a way that was meant to shut Becky up. Recognizing your friend’s patterns, like how they avoid actually vulnerability by using using the mention of this topics to attack and deflect, is not a “cult” maneuver. There’s truth to what Walky’s saying, and they could try to dig into it, but that’s not why he brought it up.
The death of Mike and his funeral had a profound effect all the cast including Walky, and I just don’t see him revealing to Becky that church reminds him of his trauma like this is a deflection or attack? He’s not dodging vulnerability here, that’s literally just him being vulnerable?
It’s not. It’s like Becky says– but even if she were wrong, that wouldn’t be a cult thing. People will say things that, yes, are true and do affect them in various ways, but with the purpose of avoiding other things. And it’s a pattern that comes up with both of these two, so thinking that’s what’s happening is entirely reasonable.
This is not him actually being open and vulnerable. I don’t think I’m going to convince you, but I was kinda overwhelmed by how wild and off I found your take on this.
Perhaps I have overthought this particular interaction between them a little much. I guess that much is a given sometimes when you suck at reading people in general. 😮💨
Either what’s going on here is a borrowed cult-tactic or it isn’t (not that I can tell, evidently), and regardless conscious effort must be made to discern them given how well they ingrain themselves into everyday interactions and systems. This especially goes for a place like Indiana — the pervasive influence of Christian/conservative cults in this region is that which cannot be overstated, even among students in a liberal University.
I thought he was going there to support something that Lucy would likely enjoy, something she’d find highly supportive and affirming. He’s trying to make up for the disastrous meeting with his racist mom.
It was only Lucy’s idea that her churchiness could help win Linda over. We don’t know if Walky has the misconception that Linda can be won.
I don’t think Walky’s truly accepted that Linda is terrible and will never change. He may hold onto a glimmer of that hope for years to come.
Or at least the misconception that going to church will do anything to accomplish that. Is there even any reason Linda will know he went to church? I mean he could tell her, but it all just seems weird if church wasn’t a family thing they did.
Walky, I thought, was going to church to make Lucy happy. It was Lucy’s idea to show off to his ‘rents.
That too.
Seems Walky has taken a page from Shigeru Miyamoto, coming up with an idea that can achieve multiple things at once.
No, Lucy is the one who thought it might make a good impression on his parents. Walky only offered to cheer her up after a shitty day of having his mom be racist at her
I uh, hm. And exactly how brainwashed are you viewing Becky as being here? Cause she’s honestly just being pretty normal. Like, this is your average, non-fundie Christian. I get it, I mean, I have my own religious trauma born from the Southern brand of Christian but even as an agnostic I can’t say she reads as brainwashed here.
Yeah. It’s somewhat rude to show up late by choice to any group event, regardless of whether or not that group event is church.
And “Go ahead and attend in your pajamas if you want” has to be among the least cultish statements I could think of.
Fundamentalist secularists view anything someone religious/spiritual does as cultish, stupid,.and worthy of contempt. I, a disabled queer, have literally been called a Nazi because I am a Christian.
It’s just taking the religious fundamentalism and moving it to atheist fundamentalism.
It’s annoying, but given American politics.. I don’t think it’s dangerous beyond being insulting to reasonable religious people.
Ironically, it’s secularism as a cult
+1
+10
I feel like secularism is being conflated with reddit-style asshole atheism here tho?
“Secular” is often mistakenly used as a synonym for “atheistic”, but secular thinkers can be non-religious or religious — secularism just means the person isn’t bringing religious faith into the matter.
That’s a fair point if we’re going by the dictionary but I was attempting to include agnostic fundamentalists. Which you’d think would be a contradiction in terms given that the entire point of agnostic is “It’s unknowable” or “I don’t know” — but I literally lived with one for a few years in my 20s.
Yuuuuup that’s just about the kinda shit you can expect from reddit-variety asshole atheists who act like 12-year-olds who just discovered the word “communist” 😑
You called Becky a cultist because she’s more perceptive than you and is being nice about it.
Great, now you’ve got me wanting so see the atheist/non-religious equivalent of a those stupid Jehovah’s Witnesses* who come up to your door and harass you. Except instead of showing up in an unmarked black SUV multiple times a month, for several months, and leaving things on your patio or under your windshield wipers*, they give you print-outs of their favorite Reddit threads or something.
*This actually happened to me last year, to the point I became increasingly paranoid every time I heard a car in the driveway.
So, scientology?
If scientology ain’t religion, why is it called the Church of Scientology? :p
Obligatory I will NEVER forgive them for brainwashing Isaac Hayes D:<
*goes Super Saiyan*
Hubbard said it’s for the tax breaks, IIRC.
The only thing I know about them is that if you drive by their main building in Burbank real slow, playing weird music, they’ll crowd around your car and get into scary crouching positions like Rita Repulsa’s Putties.
“Have you heard the good news about Richard Dawkins?”
“Is it that he hasn’t tweeted lately?”
“fundamentalist secularist”
“Ironically, it’s secularism as a cult”
that’s you lying because you’re trying to be offensive. “Cult” is a word that has a meaning, and it does not apply, just like “fundamentalist” has a meaning that does not apply. so… fuck off? that’s what you’re looking for, right?
This is the side of Becky I like, where she isn’t being a horses ass, long may it continue
Isn’t she though here?
In what way?
She’s being nice, is answering his questions, and is perceptive regarding his discomfort. It’s just rude.
And she never did repay Joyce for the haircut.
That was Billie, who gave her money to go away. Joyce was shocked at the haircut.
Yeah, and Becky was an ungrateful tramp with that $20. She should have used it to buy a house near campus.
I don’t know if you’re trying to be funny here, but it comes off as abrasive and rude.
I know you’re trying to be abrasive and rude, but it’s coming off as funny.
If David Willis is reading these comments: 1. Hi! *waves* 2. Does Joe ever take Joyce to the UI Hillel for any services there? She could learn how God is viewed through other religions and maybe that could help her either find her way back to a faith she can handle or further refine her atheism. Just a thought. 🙂
Joyce: Jacob took me to this place with INCENSE and weird costumes!
I honestly don’t know how incense is still used knowing what we know about asthma and migraines. I went to an Orthodox funeral once and had to leave halfway through.
Tradition.
The answer is always tradition.
That word is forever linked with Fiddler on the Roof for me.
It isn’t. Incense hasn’t been used in Judaism in any form since the destruction of the second Temple. I’m not sure where C.T. got the impression that it was?
C.T. was talking about Joyce’s other experience with a different religion – Jacob taking her to a high church Episcopalian service.
I assume lyzyrdwyzyrd was talking Eastern Orthodox Christian, not Jewish Orthodox.
OH RIGHT YEAH, the word “Jacob” is right there isn’t it 😳 My bad, I can’t read
Eh, it happens don’t worry about it.
My larger point being Joyce can’t deal with a Episcopalian service let alone other religions.
Yes, Eastern Orthodox Christianity; not Orthodox Judaism.
My husband has asthma and was raised catholic. he had a lot of asthma attacks growing up and still can’t stand the smell of sandalwood, even if it’s not smoke
“try deism” was when I realized Dorothy didn’t know shit about what Joyce went through.
atheists aren’t lost needing to find a way back to a faith. learning about different religions is one thing, but fuck me why everyone thinks atheists are a prize to be won.
I won’t pretend to speak for every atheist but I legitimately did not like being an atheist.
I don’t think religious people should try and push their narratives onto people, but, well, some atheists are lost. I was.
Religious people get lost to.
I’ve heard that somewhere before, that “lost” thing regarding religion. It feels really ominous, for some reason. Could you maybe explain what you mean about it?
If it is something you haven’t experienced it is hard to describe.
I think some of it may be bipolar now that I think about it.
It’s like a..an empty feeling.
Like your life is unmoored.
Like it’s dark and there is no light.
Like everything is mist.
When I think of religious people getting lost I think of losing themselves in extremism.
But also.. having faith that I do now isn’t a cure all.
I still feel that emptiness much of the time.
I just believe that God is looking out for me now.
On the good days I feel very close to the Divine Presence.
On the bad days, I don’t.
I’ve been having a lot of bad days the last year.
The
Oh. I usually call that feeling “suicidal despair”. Not really attached to any sort of “higher power” type sensation.
Humanity is a diverse phenomenon.
Joyce isn’t an atheist because she “likes being an atheist”.
For me, it’s pretty frustrating that there’s not any supernatural entities or cosmic force that makes sure there’s justice for everyone. That can’t make me believe any supernatural cosmology is accurate.
Right, I was just responding to the prior post with my personal experience.
Let me rephrase, to be less presumptuous myself.
Don’t presume atheists are lost, needing help to find a way back to a faith. If a person wants a faith, leave the seeking to them.
100 time this.
Being an atheist has never been comfortable for me.
But it is the only thing that I’ve experienced to far that has felt true, and every effort to understand things better only further cements that feeling of truth to me. I can understand believing in God because dealing with a godless reality is just that stressful, but I cannot accept people who allow themselves to be used by others to increase net human suffering and uphold traditions that regularly disadvantage much of the world. Follow what religion you like, I just hope you are not giving any person or religious body money or political support based on it. I hope you are not forming opinions and judgments of others based on what people wrote in scripture hundreds to thousands of years ago. My mum is a unitarian universalist, they seem like genuinely good, well-intentioned people. I still don’t trust that any money given to unitarian universalist churches isn’t getting put into politics, and it’d be naïve of me to assume it was going only to progressive causes.
I was commenting on my personal experience with atheism.
It didn’t work for me.
Of course my faith impacts how I vote, how I spend money.
If it doesn’t impact what you do, then…do you even have faith?
That’s like saying “I’m pro choice” and then not doing anything about it.
I am pro choice, so I vote Democrat.
I am a Quaker, specifically Friends General Conference, or Hicksite.
I am a Universalist.
I am possibly a Unitarian.
I’m politically in the same place as most UU folks more than likely I simply don’t care for the traditional liturgy style with a non-traditional syncretism.
Because apparently we “haven’t picked a side” and can be “won over” to the “correct side”. That is, unless we “refuse to hear the truth” and they just “pray for [our] souls” instead.
Bleh.
The creepy part of that “pray for your soul” thing is, some of ’em probably do. Like, they kneel beside their bed (why is that even a thing) and do their whole spiel, and then at some point during it they say some shit like “And by the way, please don’t strike down that otherwise nice person I met at Midwest FurFest this weekend.”
Some religious protesters at a pride event asked if they could pray for me, and it felt so satisfying to say no.
Dorothy’s also an atheist, though?
I mean, yes, she doesn’t get what Joyce has been through, and the deism idea was perhaps ill-judged, but it wasn’t about “winning” her for anything — quite the reverse; she could have claimed she’d “won” Joyce for atheism, but she didn’t!
The italics should have closed after “doesn’t”, sorry
I also do actually think Dorothy has a pretty good idea of what Joyce has been through (and has been traumatised by association to it), but knowing what someone has experienced doesn’t automatically mean you know what to do for them. Especially in Joyce’s case. I see it as Dotty spitballing, trying to be helpful, because she isn’t used to feeling helpless (again referencing the trauma dream.)
I was giving that as an example of someone (an atheist even) not understanding what it’s like to become an atheist from asking yourself if any version of your god(s) really exist, while desperately wanting them to, but realizing they don’t believe it.
Dorothy does not understand apostasy. She’s trying to be helpful, but she’s out of her depth and doesn’t know it.
Joe noted pretty early on that he is non-practicing: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/06-strange-beerfellows/superexcited/
So it seems unlikely he would steer Joyce toward a faith he is himself not invested in.
Judaism doesn’t work that way. It isn’t concerned with bringing non-Jews into the fold the way that Christianity is. If Joyce were a non-practicing Jew, it’d be one thing, and if she wanted to attend a service they’d let her sit in, but there’s zero drive to convert gentiles.
True story: a pair of Hasidic young adults knocked on the door to my workplace a few weeks ago, on a Friday. Our conversation went like this:
Hasidic Duo: Hi, are there any Jews who work here?
Me: Uh, just me, but I can’t really talk on account that I’m working.
Hasidic Duo: Well, will you be available to chat after work?
Me: Not really? Also I already have Shabbos plans. (Technically true, even if it was just to visit my parents that evening.)
Hasidic Duo: Oh okay.
They left after that and haven’t been back. This isn’t even the first time that’s happened to me, although the last one was several years ago.
So, you experienced a literal “Two Jews go to a place and interact with somebody” story-joke? I wonder which stage of it you were part of, like if they went to multiple buildings and asked the same question, and what the eventual punchline was. Probably something sorta dry, with some clever wordplay involved.
Something like “Can’t fool you, it’s a hickory daquiri, Doc.”
Or maybe “It’s a knick knack, Patty Black, give the frog a loan.”
Galileo came up with the mathematical model for pendulum movement when he was bored off his ass in church.
Use this information however you please :p
I’m pretty sure this is the best fun fact I’ve learned all week, but I keep going back and forth on it.
I see what you did there… And now it’s gone 😉
That is very cool.
Having Googled it, Galileo was still a Christian.
As a Christian who believes in science, mysticism, and inner experience I view this as ‘Galileo became bored with the ritual of Catholicism during a service and pondered Creation, discovering truth’
Sermon time is some of my best think-time, though usually I’m thinking about where I think the sermon gets things wrong.
I think that’s part of why Quakerism is such a good fit for me. We don’t have sermonss such. Or mostly we don’t.
Interesting. I always thought that “Quakers” was just an unofficial name given to them by other Christian groups, and that they preferred to refer to themselves as The Society of Friends.
I thought it was just a brand of oatmeal until I was about 23.
LOL. Quakers have been around for centuries, but until the early 1900s, oatmeal was considered animal feed that was unfit for human consumption. That changed when Henry Crowell launched a national advertising campaign headed by an icon designed to appeal to the Christian majority influenced by the temperance movement.
“until the 1900s” sounds apocryphal. oatcakes have been eaten for centuries in Scotland, and I think eating oatmeal porridge features in a pre-Christian Irish myth.
Yeah, but when was the last time you heard of anyone actually being from Scotland?
Well sure, the peasants ate it, but they barely count as human anyway.
More accurately, the Scots ate a lot of it, but the English treated it as horse feed and mocked the Scots for eating it.
Unfun fact — we have nothing to do with Quaker Oats.
Our likeness and name was approprated by an English businessman who co-opted our image as trustworthy.
Indeed. Cultural appropriation sucks, and capitalism of course rewards it :/
Premise 1) The Loch Ness Monster comes from Scotland.
Premise 2) The Loch Ness Monster doesn’t exist.
Therefore…
But I think NGPZ means “until the 1900s in America“.
(And England. Famed Scot-hater Dr Samuel Johnson defined oats in his dictionary as “a grain which in England is generally given to horses, but in Scotland supports the people”.)
Yes, and thank you for clarifying.
Premise 1) The Loch Ness Monster comes from Scotland.
Premise 2) The Loch Ness Monster doesn’t exist.
Therefore…
Conclusion) Santa Claus is Scottish.
Conclusion) Santa Claus is Scottish.
There is actually a song on this premise, that used to be played on the Ken Bruce show on BBC Radio 2 every December.
Santa’s a Scotsman, he’s loved everywhere he goes.
He moved from Glasgow to Lapland, following Rudolph’s nose.
Santa’s a Scotsman, come on, make a fuss.
Too many pies, not enough exercise, of course he’s one of us!
Fun Quaker fact, the first (or at least one of the first) religious groups founded in the US after the declaration of independence was a Quaker denomination called “Society of Universal Friends”. Founded by a Quaker named Public Universal Friend, who was non-binary. With the pronoun “the Friend”.
I first found out from PUF from a trans woman lesbian D&D module designer who was my introduction to the faith. She’s part of why I chose Quakerism, insofar as she introduced me to it.
We call ourselves both. The public know us best as Quakers, amongst ourselves we tend to say ‘Friends’. The full nomenclature is rather wordy. The original name was ‘Children of the Light’s which sounds vaguely cultish.
Personally, I tend towards the descriptive, rather than prescriptive theory of language (or try to) and Quakers is by far more common. It’s also less typing.
The only downside was the name gave my poor partner quite a fright. They confused us with Pentecostals.
We call ourselves both. The public know us best as Quakers, amongst ourselves we tend to say ‘Friends’. The full nomenclature is rather wordy. The original name was ‘Children of the Light’s which sounds vaguely cultish.
Personally, I tend towards the descriptive, rather than prescriptive theory of language (or try to) and Quakers is by far more common. It’s also less typing.
The only downside was the name gave my poor partner quite a fright. They confused us with Pentecostals.
Ah, thank you for that clarification!
If I recall correctly, the name “Children of the Lights” is a reference to the belief that the “Light of God” is something that resides within all humans, and that salvation is a matter of bringing out that light, and therefore their good, the common christian concept of “Original Sin” not withstanding within Quakerism. Is this accurate? (genuine ask)
Quakers refer to God as ‘The Light’s or ‘The Inward Light’ and other names.
I personally use ‘Silence’.
Broadly speaking, Quakerism is an Orthopraxy, nor an Orthodoxy. It’s more about what you do than what you believe compared to many Christian sects — we have a core of shared beliefs, but they are not binding. The one thing I can think of that would be is pacifism, or at least being anti war.
Our founder stated “there is that of God in everyone.”
The idea of this bit of God, this bit of Light being inside all of us is core to Quaker identity.
Salvation isn’t. Neither is Trinitsrianism, neither is observation of the sacraments.
Ah, once again thank you for clarification, as well as helping folks here getting their types of Christians sorted out!
who is Eichner?
A commedian/actor.
i think craig from parks and rec?
a comicch author who is known for drawing The Chpirit
The best part of youth group at my church was when they had food. Often popcorn, brownies, or (my favorite) doughnuts. I especially enjoyed the blueberry ones and those crowler ones.
The second best part of youth group was that they had an old driver-arcade game in the back. I used to tag along with my mom when she ran the program and play on that if she didn’t need my help.
Welp, now I’m gonna read all of Walky’s lines in Billy Eichner’s voice.
SOMEBODY FOLLOW ME IM DISTRAUGHT!!
and now my headcanon of how Walky looks is a medium-caramel Billy Eichner
–Dave, … i’ll be in my BUNK
♪ As you were, as I want you to be~…? ♫
should I really watch Parks & Rec to understand Billy Eichner
not everyone grew up going to church, Becky! XD
Walky looking nice for Lucy is cute though.
And hey, at least Joyce isn’t here to spill about certain Churchmouse videos.
That never happened. It was agreed.
Nope, sorry Fuckface.
Sure, not everyone has experience at church, but Becky probably hasn’t met many that are on their way to church. 🙂
Everyone has a first time. 😛
if they had grown up/gone to church together i imagine them being bad influences on each other assuming all their parents owuldn’t keep them away from each other/walkys parents being just religious enough to punish walky for ‘misbehaving’ in church lol
It’s very understandable that Becky would ask these questions, and even be a little confused, considering Walky’s parents famously sent their daughter to a catholic reform school out of state. Personally, I’d have at least expected the. To be c&e catholics based on that information.
Sure, but A) This isn’t a Catholic Church and B) Not all nominal Catholics go to church either.
Honestly, I’m being playful. Walky’s been to church before. His grandma used to make him when he was 5.
She’s asking because she knows not everyone grew up going to church. “What is expected of me?” needed more context. And instead of providing it, Walky made a joke. Annoying sometimes, but it’s fine. But it means Becky has to explicitly ask.
Walky and Becky have always had phenomenal chemistry.
I like em better when Joyce is around. They’re two very unserious people. They need a straight man to play off of.
Not sure Joyce will fit that bill for much longer tbh.
Ooh. Double entendre.
They should be better friends. The only other people Walky has consistently gotten along with are the girls he’s dated. Becky could be a good friend with no emotional baggage between them.
Obviously Walky is just so ruggedly attractive that no straight woman could stand to be friendzoned by him, so his only recourse is to make friends with lesbians. It’s the only way!
(note: if someone told Walky this, I’m pretty sure he would believe it without the slightest trace of irony)
dang, I’d probably go to church if they had a dozen donuts for each person who showed up
given that church is usually first thing in the morning for ppl there’s prolly a donut store you could find/walk around to afterwards if not before lol i’m sure there have been parents that have bribed their kids with food klike mcdonalds after church
gotta put more in the basket if you want a dozen donuts for everyone.
Well heck, if I gotta *pay* for the donuts I can just go to a donut shop instead.
I’m calling it now: Tomorrow, when Becky says something to the effect of ‘You don’t have to come if you don’t want to’, she will immediately be the monster who is trying to break up Walky and Lucy, because she cannot stand to see straights in a relationship. Possibly angling for a threesome between herself, Dina, and Lucy.
Yeah, it’s kind of wild how some folks in the comments section really have reached BEC* levels of hate for Becky. I’ve found her annoying sometimes but I can’t even understand what anyone’s objection is here, and nobody who’s said she’s doing something wrong has bothered to explain what exactly she did that was wrong. Or even approximately.
*for anyone unfamiliar with this, it stands for Bongo Eating Crackers, as in “Look at that Bongo eating crackers over there like she owns the place”, as in hating someone to the degree that even non-objectionable things tick them off if it’s that person doing them.
Similar to “If someone likes you, they think it’s cute how you slurp your soup. If they hate you, even they way you hold your spoon offends them.”
I’m not sure if the person who likes Spirit Farer is reading these comments, but I have started playing it and it is wonderful.
Also I’m selfishly hoping you’re reading this because I have become MASSIVELY stuck and I could use some advice.
WD40
WD-40 will crack it loose, but if you want it to stay lubricated long-term you’ll want to chase it with some real oil or lithium grease.
Basically the way that the game works is you can see you need WD40, but you have no idea where to get it.
I really want to play that game sometime.
However, I would need to block out large chunks of time to just lie on the floor, I think.
>me when anybody recommends any video game
“Not Armored Cor–no, wait, still Armored Core VI. Hrm.”
I confess it’s been taking over my weekends lately.
I’ve never really had any experience with church either, actually, now that I think about it. I’m in Walky’s boat here. Lemme go get my jammies back on!!
Walky’s “do anything to get away from an emotionally difficult conversation” tactic is getting old.
Church is a chore, otherwise it wouldn’t be holy. What’s that, some people enjoy going to church? Even churchgoers think those people are weird.
If church is s chore, you need a better church.
I love attending Meetings, zi just haven’t been able to in months due to horrific anxiety.
I hope Walky doesn’t feel as uncomfortable setting foot in church as I did. I’ve only been to one, an Anglican easter service in high school, and I felt like such a fraud that I’ve never set foot in another since. I literally felt like I was going to catch fire when I crossed the threshold.
I will guarantee that you made at least one stranger happy by being there.
It’ll be interesting to see how he reacts. Unless there’s a strip I’m forgetting that says otherwise, I get the sense that he’s agnostic in the sense of “nobody has ever required me to consider if God exists or not, so I haven’t”. And that might actually be worse than being atheist in this situation. Like, when I go to a church, it’s just a building. It’s probably a very nice building, and I’ll get a sense of gravitas and history (Mum was also atheist and loved looking round old churches. She also accompanied my aunt to midnight mass at Christmas), and if there’s a sermon I will listen politely as long as it isn’t fundie nonsense, but I wouldn’t worry too much what a God I don’t believe in thinks about me being there.
(Actually, that makes me sound a more committed atheist than I actually am. It would be more accurate to say that the part of my mind that wonders if I might be wrong thinks that if God does exist, he’s probably a chill dude.)
They got donuts at the church? Okay, throw in some coffee, and I’ll go!
Coffee is pretty standard at all the churches I’ve been to and baked goods like donuts are pretty common (although more often donut holes or like a coffee cake which is easier to share). The catch is that it is for after the service (although sometimes you can grab some coffee before).
Becky, just tell him the agenda so he doesn’t worry (so much) about doing the Wrong Thing. I’m a regular attender and I’d have the same question when visiting elsewhere.
Becky’s probably the nest church mentor for Walky.
She can also be his tor mentor.
TOR? Becky’s gonna introduce Walky to the
fantastic world of gay sexdark web, then? Gonna teach him how to buy magic mushrooms and get ’em sent straight to his door?Teach him how to download textbooks for free on z-lib at least
I mean textbook prices are a frickin scam really, at this point it’s more ethical to download them like that.
What? Professor Chucklenuts is just teaching out of the latest edition of the textbook, “Economics: From Your Wallet to the World, Sixth Edition” by Professor Chucklenuts. The fifth edition was last year’s book, all those $5 used copies you see listed online are irrelevant now. You don’t want him to teach you outdated information, do you?
/s
hahaha *hi five*
Following that with “Becky’s going to introduce Walky to sci-fi paperbacks” feels like a serious failure to escalate, but it was the first thing I thought of.
Sometimes it’s funnier to lower the stakes dramatically.
“SOMEBODY COMFORT ME, I’M DISTRAUGHT!”
Walky if you’re gonna ask for advice it’s bad form to immediately shut it down you utter good
goon, not good
goober, I would say.
Seems like “Come as you are, so long as it’s on time” is a pretty reasonable expectation tbh. Not much of a gotcha from Walky there.
I can’t blame him for not being super enthusiastic about this (for a number of reasons), but the decision to go was in the end on him, in support of a relationship he doesn’t seem very enthusiastic about in a way that I think he knows won’t be very effective.
Seems to me like the boy is operating purely on momentum here and maybe someone needs to break that momentum and ask Walky what he actually wants at this point. And like…”I don’t know” would be a valid answer, but he’s putting an awful lot of effort (which by his own brand he hates doing) for something that he doesn’t seem to want all that badly.
If the one thing about his brand that changes is “not trying,” that’s probably for the best. I mean, it’s cool to be on brand, but it’s hard to be any kind of even middling success if you don’t try. Smarts can only get you so far. I say this as a Walky Stan. I just love the little guy too much to want to see him screw up his life, and it’s ok to figure out things as you go.
I’m starting to get the feeling that he sees Lucy as so focused on the objective lying just beyond Date #3 that the dates themselves don’t matter, and he’s feeling his efforts to be a good boyfriend are a bit wasted?
aw fuck, Becky’s goinna end up owning his soul (in a really platonic way, beigns she’s completely lesbian).
i like these two hanging out
Lie to him. Tell him he has to tie his shoes, it’s an affront to all the angels if you flop your slush soaked shoe laces all over the church.
I have always hated that in any context. “Come as you are” “There’s no wrong way” “No expectations”… it simply doesn’t communicate anything. Or, rather, what it communicates is that the speaker has never fully interrogated their expectations, doesn’t really know what those expectations are, and doesn’t appreciate how different other people can be.
There’s ALWAYS a wrong way. There’s always a way to be rude, insensitive, or shocking, and often it’s nowhere near as obvious to an outsider as you might imagine.